Hello, world!

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< 1207963251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. The WHATWG did it before that. The WHATWG are clever. < 1207963252 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in traditional HTML. < 1207963265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3. Ian Hixie did lots of work on it because he is in the WHATWG. Ian Hixie is *very* clever, and sane. < 1207963271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So threefold! < 1207963277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You might be able to drop the

s. < 1207963293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But

isn't too bad. < 1207963299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Semantically it makes sense. < 1207963309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And having some text in the root and others in elements is a bad weird. < 1207963310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But meh. < 1207963361 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My problem with

is how it acts in HTML 4.01 and below, actually. < 1207963368 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically, it doesn't need to be closed. < 1207963372 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.roesler-ac.de/wolfram/hello.htm#Pocket-Calculator < 1207963377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Ah, yes. That thing. < 1207963383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if that's still in HTML 5. < 1207963384 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With this technique, you cal also write "HELLO BOOB" < 1207963397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTML 5 is certainly lenient. < 1207963408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it retains a lot of HTML's quirks. < 1207963415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But on the *overall*, it's sane. < 1207965220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1207972861 0 :Judofyr_!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1207972861 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1207973041 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1207973101 0 :Deformative!n=joe@c-68-61-240-49.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1207973137 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1207973176 0 :Deformative!n=joe@c-68-61-240-49.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1207977064 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1207977071 0 :RodgerTheGreat!n=Rodger@wads-5-233-27.resnet.mtu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1207977085 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1207979615 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Client terminated by server" < 1207979626 0 :cmeme!n=cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1207979857 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-75-235.w83-203.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1207980905 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1207982414 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1207985733 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@oklopol.yok.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1207987199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1207987200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1207987427 0 :adu!n=andrew@pool-71-178-14-80.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1207989183 0 :kwertii_!n=kwertii@c-71-202-121-102.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1207989521 0 :kwertii_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"bye" < 1207990145 0 :kwertii!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1207991298 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1207991661 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1207991859 0 :Iskr!n=i@host88-84-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1207992984 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@194.157.8.100 JOIN :#esoteric < 1207992990 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1207993002 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@194.157.8.100 JOIN :#esoteric < 1207994892 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bye" < 1207995353 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1207998710 0 :oklofok!n=nnscript@194.157.8.100 JOIN :#esoteric < 1207998763 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1207999318 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1207999423 0 :Slereah!n=Vampire_@ANantes-252-1-71-168.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1207999988 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1208000004 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@194.157.8.100 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208000563 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1208006467 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1208006482 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@209.248.125.70 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208008101 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1208008101 0 :Judofyr_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1208009220 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1208012461 0 :oklopol!i=oko@dsl-tkubrasgw1-ffb1c100-137.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1208013130 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.104.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208014684 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :logo FAIL: http://www.harveyshopfitters.co.uk/images/menu_01.gif < 1208014815 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that cons cell you created, can i include that with your nick/name in my oklotalk report? would be cool to have something like "user experiences" :D < 1208014857 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more impressive if *others* can do something with it than if i can. < 1208014928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: brb, with you in a sec < 1208014929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes < 1208014933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanna code some more though too < 1208014934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1208014946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for the record, if you didn't know, my name is elliott hird < 1208014952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and please don't get the wrong number of ls and ts < 1208014954 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1208014961 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, i've always known it. < 1208015005 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be awesome if you did something, i'm trying to get people to write me an stdlib :) < 1208015012 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not many are that interested to :O < 1208015039 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not that i'm too lazy to do it, just that it's a bit useless if i do it < 1208015078 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of course i can do it trivially... well, you too, but i'm also trying to get normal people to write something with it. < 1208015093 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normal coders that is < 1208015094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, hm? < 1208015111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, yes I read it has "shoplifter" first time < 1208015115 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naturally i consider #eso guys a few grades up :D < 1208015134 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's not the point, although i did too < 1208015155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the point then? < 1208015163 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1208015188 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :logo < 1208015195 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see people in it. < 1208015198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a boring logo yes, but boring logos with symbols meaning nothing is rather common < 1208015230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err what? < 1208015246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah could be a person using some kind of tool < 1208015250 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's doggie style, receiver laying down < 1208015256 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*lying < 1208015256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1208015257 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1208015262 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :english is too hard < 1208015264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, you know this qualifies as "inkblot".... < 1208015271 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't < 1208015294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pervertness then? < 1208015301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least dirty minded < 1208015364 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you know, i'm male < 1208015441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so am I, and? < 1208015459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't think about such things all the time < 1208015500 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1208015588 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i do admit i'm a sick pervert, but i'm 100% sure that logo can only be conceived as a sex act < 1208015652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, to me it looks like a person using a "slipmaskin" don't know English word for it < 1208015680 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: looks like front-to-front to me < 1208015707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a handheld device that you put a paper (that got sand glued to it) on. then you use the device to make wood smooth < 1208015711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the English word? < 1208015712 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ironing board or smth? < 1208015720 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1208015723 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sander?> < 1208015733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ironing board or smth? <-- that would be making clothes flat < 1208015745 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yarr... < 1208015751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you confuse them your clothes would looks very bad < 1208015754 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't know what slip was < 1208015759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very important to not confuse them < 1208015768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, well slip in Swedish can be other stuff too < 1208015773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, possibly < 1208015791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, something to do with boats I think the other meaning is < 1208015798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm no boat expert) < 1208015843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, anyway google images to the rescue: http://www.fynda.se/bilder/londa_slipmaskin_ld1211.jpg < 1208015872 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, SimonRC: well, the hands seem to be on the receiver, so i would've said doggie < 1208015879 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but stick figures, so go figure < 1208015930 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure sander was right < 1208015935 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1208015942 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that like a hone or smth < 1208015942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not mail the company and ask which one it is < 1208015947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure they would *love* it < 1208015950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs
< 1208015952 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really know this stuff even in finnish < 1208016042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, well slipmaskin can be for other materials than wood, for example metal < 1208016054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it seems that "sander" is correct < 1208016079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is definately a sexual act. < 1208016079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1208016086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyhoo < 1208016099 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely < 1208016101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: soo i'll write some more okocode if you put otobot in here, or give me an oklotalk interpreter < 1208016105 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1208016113 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll put it up :-) < 1208016116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, if you give me an oklotalk interpreter, i'll even write a special testimonial < 1208016130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to put in the Report on the Algorithmic Programming Language Oklotalk < 1208016135 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1208016142 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can give you the compiled version. < 1208016161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i'm on a mac < 1208016165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that would be thoroughly unhelpful < 1208016196 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiled into pyc, man < 1208016228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1208016230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endianness < 1208016232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1208016234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1208016247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i'll add an awesome REPL < 1208016249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and send you a patch < 1208016249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1208016253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1208016256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a debugger < 1208016265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe add continuations < 1208016273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I want to see it too so I can see how it works < 1208016278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I may help writing some code < 1208016297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oklopol's python code uses 1-2 letter variables names and has no comments < 1208016298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and little whitespace < 1208016303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is only for the hardened obfuscated python editor < 1208016309 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is an awesome repl already < 1208016317 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not awesome, but somewhat working < 1208016318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hardened obfuscated python editor"? < 1208016338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you need to be really good at editing dense, obfuscated python < 1208016351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well count me out then < 1208016351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i will add history that is stored across sesssions, completion, brace matching.. < 1208016357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1208016360 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: (hardened ((obfuscated python) editor)) for the parse tree < 1208016366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the debugger and continuation stuff, of course < 1208016371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I suggest you make your code more readable if what ehird said is true < 1208016389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: he likes it that way < 1208016390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do too < 1208016403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, try something like literate programming, just for a change < 1208016413 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to read code with comments imo :) < 1208016414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eww < 1208016416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :literate programming < 1208016417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though IMO that is going too far in the other direction) < 1208016426 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the shorter the easier to read :) < 1208016426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe they will cancel out? < 1208016428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yeah, comments are mostly useless. < 1208016430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but.. < 1208016432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few of them is alright < 1208016438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you will end up with something usable < 1208016444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, instead of # loop through all elements in the array and xor them into the checksum, resulting in a floob < 1208016445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do < 1208016445 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, good comments that just specify stuff like interfaces, can be very nice < 1208016451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comments above the function < 1208016451 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can just take a quick glance < 1208016454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about what it does < 1208016456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not how < 1208016457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1208016464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# provides a checksum used as a floob < 1208016473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but most of the time good code is self-explanatory < 1208016477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comments can be misleading < 1208016486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good variable names too < 1208016488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they make it easier for someone who doesn't *really* understand the source code to try and edit it < 1208016491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :often messing up things subtly < 1208016496 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i have a few comments, but they are mostly useful for myself :P < 1208016502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, comments are very hard to keep up to date < 1208016515 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed. < 1208016516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I agree you shouldn't overdo comments < 1208016541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you could use good variable and function names < 1208016549 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i might let you play with my implementation once i've submitted it < 1208016552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: there's a problem with all that: writing oko-python is fun < 1208016566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ie, single char ones like i and j should be used for looping nothing else < 1208016570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck readability and maintainability, it's fun < 1208016575 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dense code helps you get more on the screen < 1208016580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well x and y are ok if you are doing co-ordinates < 1208016595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, agreed, but good variable names is still important < 1208016599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very important < 1208016608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you like to stare at code like a work of art < 1208016612 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a definite maintainability drop as code goes beyond one screenful < 1208016615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like to have fun when writing it < 1208016621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC++ < 1208016626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, yes that is why you split functions < 1208016631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well, ok, give me the pyc < 1208016632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and mark them as "inline" < 1208016636 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1208016646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that is not the point < 1208016648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making the code modular is good < 1208016657 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant there is a definite mainatainability drop as the length of the program goes over one screenful < 1208016665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1208016671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, still how much do you save writing "int a" instead of "int sum" < 1208016672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of making the current code easy to understand < 1208016679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think of a shorter, more self-describing way to express it < 1208016682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a far better use of time < 1208016688 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :macros, lots of macros < 1208016691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, as a variable name < 1208016696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, you use a language that doesn't require stupidly verbose type declarations < 1208016699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that becomes '' < 1208016701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you just use a. < 1208016707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: however, in the case of C < 1208016712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: please read K&R < 1208016720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, even then calling the variable sum is better < 1208016722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :their style is *exemplary* C < 1208016728 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one- and two- letter variable names help you get most functions on to 1 or 2 lines < 1208016730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is very short, concise, uses mostly 1-char variable names, < 1208016732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, macors do have their place yes, but again it is easy to overdo it < 1208016737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and tries to keep things about one screenful < 1208016741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and how can you argue with K&R? < 1208016745 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is just imo, but usually, if a variable can have a very simple name without being misleading, you are doing a conceptually trivial thing much too verbosely... but i'm prolly wrong, no need to tell me that. < 1208016754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes! < 1208016757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're right < 1208016758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because it is not available as a free pdf < 1208016759 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you agree? < 1208016762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik < 1208016762 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :niec. < 1208016775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: HAHAHAHAHA < 1208016780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the funniest thing i've heard all day < 1208016787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so I haven't read it < 1208016789 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, document the datastructures, not the functions < 1208016795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, yes very true < 1208016797 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former is rather more helpful < 1208016809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet AnMaster would complain about K&Rs style if he read it. < 1208016817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'how can they make their code so OBFUSCATED' < 1208016822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'these people's C is horrible' < 1208016825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, however something like a one line comment above the prototype in the header file is useful < 1208016835 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, that prototype J interpreter is easy to read once you know what the datastructures are < 1208016837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, and if a library for others to use: much more < 1208016842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the public funtions < 1208016848 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, and probably yes < 1208016853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: yes, that prototype J interpreter is actually quite simple when you read it < 1208016879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the immediate shock reaction is very telling of the bad assumptions programmers make < 1208016891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, would you like the man page for fopen to say: "opens a file, read source to see what the parameters are for and what the valid values for the mode parameter is" < 1208016893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you understand some code immediately because it has tons of comments and all that < 1208016896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably understand it wrong < 1208016899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that question is to ehird too < 1208016899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and editing it is dangerous < 1208016904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a more concise style, you learn the code < 1208016910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you learn it PROPERLY, and editing is easier < 1208016928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that is a totally irrelevant question < 1208016937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? it is code documentation < 1208016941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a way < 1208016953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: totally stupid attempt to clutch at straws < 1208016955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1208016964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how do you mean? < 1208016969 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1208016973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: run this for me < 1208016975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'man fopen|wc -l' < 1208016995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :124 on freebsd < 1208017006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ditto here. do you know how long the gnu version is? < 1208017013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's god-awful < 1208017017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes, 130 lines < 1208017023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 6 more < 1208017024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that must be an old version < 1208017025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I checked < 1208017032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway, the gnu version *tells you less* < 1208017035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bsd writing style is better < 1208017041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more concise, and more information packed < 1208017048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I agree freebsd got better man pages < 1208017049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :124 is a bit excessive, it's got bigger over the years < 1208017050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT! < 1208017053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you read the manpage < 1208017061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a LOT of it is stuff to do with standards compliance < 1208017065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and historical stuff < 1208017070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when writing a new app, normally that doesn't apply < 1208017073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes I fully agree about comments < 1208017088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO, if fopen was new and written today < 1208017092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if you look in cfunge source you won't find a lot of comments, mostly something like "this function does foo" < 1208017094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1208017095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a good manpage would be much shorter < 1208017102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ the gpl header in each file < 1208017104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is about all < 1208017111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: license headers in each file is so horrid < 1208017112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate it < 1208017114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so redundant < 1208017117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1208017121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'this function does foo' < 1208017122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suggest < 1208017122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'foo' < 1208017124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of < 1208017132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'This function calculates the checksum of s' < 1208017133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try < 1208017136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Calculate the checksum of s' < 1208017146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you said a lot in fopen man page was about standard < 1208017147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong < 1208017161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 lines are < 1208017161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: looks like it to me < 1208017164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: .pyc plz? < 1208017169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can dcc it < 1208017173 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh righ. < 1208017174 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1208017175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, however man fopen is about three functions < 1208017182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOPEN(3) FreeBSD Library Functions Manual FOPEN(3) < 1208017182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NAME < 1208017182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fopen, fdopen, freopen -- stream open functions < 1208017184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they share man page < 1208017192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, I don't like man(1) anyway < 1208017194 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you also get the spec wannabe, so comments on that too < 1208017200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, want info *runs* < 1208017201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for documenting functions i prefer tools that extract stuff out of the source < 1208017205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically < 1208017211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :documentation should be as close as possible to the thing it documents < 1208017214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well gnu info is worse < 1208017214 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1208017217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise it has a far higher chance of being irrelevant < 1208017218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or out of date < 1208017223 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yup * 2 < 1208017234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well you could use something like doxygen then < 1208017236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: :) < 1208017241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: doxygen's a bad exampl < 1208017241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1208017242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you use that, I just say eww < 1208017243 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sun got that mostly right, with JavaDoc < 1208017246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's TOO verbose < 1208017250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, doxygen sucks < 1208017256 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: cli is the repl < 1208017258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good idea, bad implementation < 1208017261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the idea is alright < 1208017262 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems it's not coming < 1208017266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1208017267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ? < 1208017273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1208017273 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1208017275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :upload it somewhere < 1208017279 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps i'm not identified < 1208017279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and send the url to me < 1208017281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1208017283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not < 1208017286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i am < 1208017295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, auto generated man pages then? < 1208017307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there is a gnu tool that can auto generate a man page from --help output < 1208017312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help2man I think the name is < 1208017327 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forth traditionally has one "screen" of pure comments for each "screen" of code. < 1208017335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to give it some options to make sure it doesn't add the "see info page for more" crap < 1208017342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it isn't too bad with the right options < 1208017355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: trying to figure out how to accept that < 1208017356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::--) < 1208017363 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in text files, just have half of the line for comment and half for code I suppose < 1208017365 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1208017384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, nah, too much comments, usually I need way less < 1208017385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really need to get a place to put my thoughts on code < 1208017396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i can point them to it < 1208017400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of wording it badly on irc < 1208017411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however: the more obfuscated the code, the more comments needed < 1208017418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it is better to give usable variable names < 1208017430 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: cli.pyc is a repl, and if you want to do something with context, oklotalk.pyc has a Runner class, which can .run() code, and stores context... and oklotalk.run() runs code < 1208017446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, what is a "repl"? < 1208017451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: read/eval/print/loop < 1208017452 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read-eval-print-loop < 1208017454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1208017456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1208017460 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn ehird and his divine typing skills < 1208017467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in concatenative languages you can express it almost exactly like that < 1208017477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEFINE loop = read eval print loop. < 1208017485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1208017494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(loop (print (eval (read)))), is, of course, ridiculous < 1208017495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1208017512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1208017526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that the same in "lispy" syntax? < 1208017555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1208017555 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sexps < 1208017560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its totally backwards < 1208017562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1208017601 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in concisative languages, you can write it as readevalprintloop < 1208017611 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cise does this easily < 1208017617 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it owns so bad < 1208017621 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i gotta get on it soon < 1208017628 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1208017628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: or rather - 'in ambigious languages' < 1208017629 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1208017634 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the send failed < 1208017634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, parsing cise is turing complete < 1208017641 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehe < 1208017642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to know the definitions to parse it properly < 1208017643 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1208017645 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-085-016-238-032.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1208017649 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no < 1208017651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes < 1208017655 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1208017660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'readevalprintloop' could be 're adev alpri ntlo op' < 1208017678 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the magic is that you need to have those defined already. < 1208017700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, oklopol < 1208017703 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to have explicit tokenization somewhere in file < 1208017704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it is decided at runtime < 1208017706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1208017708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1208017712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if i use stuff from a library < 1208017714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have to specify which ones < 1208017717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it can parse it right < 1208017720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :won't that be verbose? < 1208017750 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specify which ones? < 1208017758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: imagine this < 1208017765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'import foolib; readevalprintloop' < 1208017771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foolib could have 're', 'adev' etc < 1208017776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would have to scan foolib, i guses < 1208017777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*guess < 1208017804 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes, but i do not have all parsing rules done yet. < 1208017819 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all i know is i'll choose something that makes sense < 1208017842 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cise isn't at all ready yet < 1208017855 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1208017859 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll up the interp btw < 1208018166 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ping < 1208018169 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: pingu < 1208018474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1208018484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :downloading < 1208018492 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okies < 1208018514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i guess now i'll decompile it < 1208018514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1208018519 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1208018532 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that wouldn't be very fair, now would it < 1208018539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't be readable for one thing < 1208018555 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :python bytecode would be fun to learn < 1208018562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only other documented tester of Oklotalk-- is Elliott hird, who implemented a synthetic lisp style cons cell in pure Oklotalk. This was done based on solely the rational number example, implying the language can be picked up in an instance given a basic knowledge of the concepts involved. < 1208018563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1208018567 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very high-level, i'm prettu sure you could < 1208018574 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1208018582 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well didn't you pretty much do that? < 1208018595 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or did i explain much :D < 1208018606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1208018607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did < 1208018607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1208018610 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yarr < 1208018619 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hird < 1208018624 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i *did* fail your name < 1208018628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1208018631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :credit me as 'ehird' < 1208018637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 1337++ < 1208018648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be exact, also integers, strings and lists are things, but "thing" refers to user-created things (the "{...}" ones) in this document. Atoms aren't, in Oklotalk--, due to their special call behavior. < 1208018662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things are things except when they're not < 1208018663 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's true for this version < 1208018664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can have things < 1208018667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are not like the other things < 1208018669 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1208018697 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i put alot of thought into finding a good name for 'em :-) < 1208018705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: how about 'responder' < 1208018709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1208018712 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha :d < 1208018713 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1208018716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for Oklotalk, of course. < 1208018720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklotalk-- is set in stone too much :P < 1208018736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: oh and i came up with a little 'syntaxful' oklotalk-- variation < 1208018742 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do tell < 1208018742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gonna rewrite my cons cell with it < 1208018767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: hey, i just noticed something < 1208018771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklotalk doesn't need comments < 1208018773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use < 1208018773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"strings" < 1208018856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: http://pb.vjn.fi/p641631565.txt < 1208018857 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1208018862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have many more ideas for the syntax < 1208018869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's just adding one or two niceties < 1208018871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like it < 1208018882 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the thing is, "comments" are in fact just another kind of string. < 1208018891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well yeah < 1208018894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyhoo < 1208018896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my example < 1208018896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1208018899 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is actual oklotalk ofc < 1208018919 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yarr i thought of that too, acttually < 1208018921 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1208018935 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be nice < 1208018952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yeah < 1208018954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically < 1208018960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just adding infix stuff < 1208018961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1208018965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing that makes it special is my indentation style < 1208018972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try and read this < 1208018972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(= cons {(-> [h t] {(-> [$pb :] [h t]) (-> $car h) (-> $cdr t) (-> [$setcar h] h) (-> [$setcdr t] t) (-> [$! 0] h) (-> [$! n] (! t (- n 1))) (-> $length (+ 1 (length t)))})}) < 1208018975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if you add newlines < 1208018976 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i meant the indentation actually. < 1208018977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still hard to read < 1208018984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my style combined with the indentaiton < 1208018990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes it nice and trivial < 1208018998 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i read it quite easily, but indeed, some might not < 1208019012 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yarr, i meant i thought of *the indentation style* < 1208019017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1208019017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1208019029 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assumed infix was just automatic because... well, it usually is < 1208019033 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1208019037 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for single statements < 1208019050 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm also pondering whether i should add precedence to oklotalk, still < 1208019114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you should only add precedence when you write programs < 1208019118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and see where parens crop up < 1208019120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parens are evil < 1208019126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: actually < 1208019131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've always wanted to do a language where < 1208019133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2*3 + 4 < 1208019134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1208019137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 * 3+4 < 1208019139 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graphica! < 1208019140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parse like you would expect < 1208019143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1208019146 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've come up with that too :) < 1208019158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : yes < 1208019158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : sexps < 1208019158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : its totally backwards < 1208019163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: but what about multiple spaces < 1208019164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well xml is worse < 1208019170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 * 3+4 / 2 * 3+4 < 1208019172 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, graphica isn't exactly that < 1208019176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally epical < 1208019177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S-Expressions > xml < 1208019179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, epical < 1208019182 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is't sexps + infix if no spaces < 1208019189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no the repl is backawrds < 1208019191 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, same basic idea < 1208019194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*backwards < 1208019195 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it's < 1208019204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I prefer RPN too < 1208019208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1208019216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i just like concatenative languages < 1208019216 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...rpn? :O < 1208019219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just for the RPN < 1208019222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: okorpn < 1208019242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge is more or less RPN < 1208019242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{$f [$pb :] ->; ...} = cons < 1208019242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1208019248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but not concatenative < 1208019260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you push 20 on the stack? a2* would work in funge98 < 1208019277 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: do you know concatenativity? < 1208019311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I know the word and I know forth is such a language < 1208019315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :concatenativity is RPN jesus < 1208019318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not the details indeed < 1208019319 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is that if you're point-free (meaning no variables -> no scope), you can just combine functions by combining their sources < 1208019320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: forth isn't concatenative < 1208019322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really < 1208019323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1208019326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but here is the definition < 1208019333 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1208019334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in applicative languages, the invisible space operator is application < 1208019335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo bar < 1208019336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is foo(bar) < 1208019338 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :concatenating their sources < 1208019344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in concatenative languages, the invisible space operator is composition < 1208019345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes right < 1208019345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo bar < 1208019346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is foo . bar < 1208019348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1208019352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much < 1208019352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :means bash is a applicative language < 1208019355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1208019358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it isn't < 1208019361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1208019361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1208019362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of < 1208019367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :myfunction argument < 1208019367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a weird kind of applicative languages < 1208019368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1208019369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1208019374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the cool thing about concatenative languages < 1208019378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that because space = composition < 1208019386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :putting two valid programs together is their composition < 1208019388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what is foo . bar < 1208019388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1208019394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C syntax < 1208019397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: foo . bar is \x -> bar (foo x) < 1208019400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't express it in c < 1208019402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't have closurse < 1208019411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well then you can't express it so I get it :P < 1208019412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, actually that's bar . foo < 1208019418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but concatenative languages use it like that < 1208019422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: basically < 1208019427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in 'foo . bar' < 1208019430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a function: < 1208019433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1208019436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x) { return foo(bar(x));} < 1208019444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1208019444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in concatenative languages, 'foo bar' is 'bar . foo' < 1208019449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1208019450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'2' < 1208019453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a function pushing 2 < 1208019460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you have [...] to make functions < 1208019460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1208019463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 3 + < 1208019464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is < 1208019471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x) { return +(3(2(x))); } < 1208019477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the initial x passed to the program < 1208019478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the empty stack < 1208019481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what does that evalute to? < 1208019482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that program pushes 2 < 1208019486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wel < 1208019488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2(x) < 1208019492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is x+[2] < 1208019497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming 2 is a function < 1208019502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, that makes a stack like x but with 2 added to it < 1208019505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then passes that to 3 < 1208019508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then passes that to + < 1208019511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. < 1208019513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which adds the top two avlues together < 1208019514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now < 1208019516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you call a function < 1208019518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gets the current stack < 1208019521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. 'x' gets it < 1208019522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1208019524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the start of the program < 1208019527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an empty stack is passed < 1208019534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1208019537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[...] is an anonymous function < 1208019542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so all it does is stack operations? < 1208019543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'[...] i' is '...' < 1208019550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: kind of, but stack is an implementation detail < 1208019579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't see the point of it though really < 1208019611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what's the point of anything really < 1208019616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a paradigm < 1208019619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a very interesting one < 1208019622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1208019628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it useful < 1208019640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it better than say functional programming < 1208019641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the same way any paradigm is useful over any other < 1208019661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, like? < 1208019695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and what existing languages are concatenative < 1208019705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is any of them non-esoteric? < 1208019712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: most of them are non-esoteric < 1208019714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1208019718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like? < 1208019727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Joy was created to research the implications < 1208019732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Factor, however, is the prime example < 1208019736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slava Pestov is its head < 1208019739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :author of jEdit < 1208019751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a web server, is used to develop apps, has a small but strong community, etc < 1208019756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a channel here, #concatenative < 1208019763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :factorcode.com < 1208019853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia call Joy "functional" < 1208019858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1208019941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, functional but concatenative < 1208019943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh and Cat < 1208019946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cat is like Joy, but strongly typedf < 1208019956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not man cat? < 1208019961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no < 1208019962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :catlanguage.com < 1208019971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat is certainly "concatenative" though XD < 1208019978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not turing complete < 1208020008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not related to lolcode? ;P < 1208020014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1208020022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :predates it < 1208020037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait < 1208020038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dead link < 1208020064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cat-language.com/ < 1208020117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one is functional too? < 1208020136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1208020141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are *all* concatenative languages functional? < 1208020145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: most are < 1208020147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1208020150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of them have side-effects < 1208020153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so functional but not purely < 1208020166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but all of them have [...] and use combinators for 'if' and all that stuff < 1208020170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in e.g. factor < 1208020171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well most functional languages allow side effects, even haskell does it in special contexts iirc < 1208020173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :side effects are trivial < 1208020181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and haskell doesn't, it just lets you emulate it < 1208020191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it lets you do file IO < 1208020207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or how the heck did they write darcs in haskell? < 1208020210 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm fairly sure a concatenative language has to be functional < 1208020253 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can't use something like goto for program flow, you have to have a way to nest code... this essentially lets you have functions < 1208020254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's hard to explain < 1208020260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: haskell can be used for very real, IO-doing apps < 1208020265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but it is done in a purely functional way < 1208020274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll word-drop... Monads < 1208020274 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, i'm assuming a stack here, perhaps a wider consideration of concatenativity might let you be imperative. < 1208020284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: basically, the only non-functional part is the small runtime written in c < 1208020285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes I heard that word < 1208020289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is 100% detached from the haskell code < 1208020289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1208020296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its hard to explain, most newbies misunderstand it < 1208020298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was just about to ask what it meant < 1208020301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but just believe me when i say -- < 1208020308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell is 100% purely functional < 1208020321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, file IO is a side effect, right? < 1208020339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes but the haskell doesn't do it < 1208020345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i told you, it's hard to explain < 1208020347 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it doesn't have side-effects, it just has a construct for ordering evaluating, in which case you can have the program receive a conceptual list of inputs that will ever be given, and read from that < 1208020353 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this list can only be read sequentially < 1208020356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: eeeeh, no < 1208020357 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is the IO monad < 1208020359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, so everyone using darcs just imagined they commited a file < 1208020359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that's wrong < 1208020360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1208020362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it really didn't do it? < 1208020362 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no? < 1208020368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ... what an IDIOTIC comment < 1208020377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes I'm aware of that < 1208020380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you make no sense < 1208020380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not the Haskell that does the IO. < 1208020394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: most people have a lot of trouble with monads. i'm not going to explain it over irc. < 1208020397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just trust me. i'm right. < 1208020403 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what's wrong about my explanation? < 1208020454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: hm < 1208020455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not srue < 1208020472 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not saying it's exactly that, but it somewhat corresponds to that :) < 1208020506 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can think of actions that effect the IO monad as taking stuff from the list < 1208020515 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and at recursion, passing the tail < 1208020520 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you've used the head < 1208020574 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you can also do stuff like output, and tell the IO monad how to read, but you can find a similar analogy for that too < 1208020592 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how < 1208020593 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1208020594 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1208020648 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: did you try the interp? < 1208020651 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it work at all? < 1208020763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: going to < 1208020786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: " < 1208020786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1208020810 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems this is an idle day for me, so i'll be here waiting, i guess! :D < 1208020842 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i haven't tried anything that shouldn't work btw, so don't be surprised if it's trivial to crash < 1208020844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well, it works < 1208020845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1208020855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not much to see really < 1208020862 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you can't crash it that easily ofc < 1208020870 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it just excepts < 1208020921 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, if you find bugs, i may remention you in the report!! < 1208020932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: there's lots of bugs < 1208020934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not on valid code < 1208020934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1208020939 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1208020941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i find the scoping odd though < 1208020943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's an example < 1208020944 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolly, prolly < 1208020962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(= ptr {(-> o {(-> $get o) (-> [$set o] o)})}) < 1208020967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you see the o < 1208020968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bound in < 1208020969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[$set o] < 1208020979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would expect that to be local to that pattern match, and just return the o < 1208020979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then < 1208020981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a future get < 1208020984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the get would refer to the objects o < 1208020985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but instead < 1208020990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it somehow 'overrides' the thing's o < 1208020995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that intentional? < 1208020997 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1208021000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, how is it done consistently? < 1208021010 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only a problem at recursion < 1208021032 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mutable objects and functions at the same time don't really mix < 1208021036 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i wasn't afraid ofc < 1208021046 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recursion will remake the scope < 1208021051 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing else < 1208021094 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you see, usually you will not use a *field* in a pattern, you will use new varnames... using field names in a pattern will have the side-effect of changing the field. < 1208021172 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you find problems with it, do tell me. sofar, it seems to have been a good idea < 1208021229 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, apart from the fact it may make it easy to make mistakes; this of course i don't care about at all, oklotalk is supposed to be fun and easy to code, if you *know what you're doing, and are perfect* < 1208021396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, the bot is offline :( < 1208021401 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1208021408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otobot I mean < 1208021412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever it's name was < 1208021486 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtdf < 1208021488 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1208021494 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invalid username i=-1 :D < 1208021505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err yes I agree it is invalid < 1208021507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see irc standard < 1208021523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := is not valid in nicks iirc < 1208021526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb phone < 1208021527 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't use it < 1208021688 0 :oktabot!n=oktaboto@88.193.177.137 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208021705 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a-ha, cannot have ident and realname be the same as nick, it seems :O < 1208021717 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: (= ptr {(-> o {(-> $get o) (-> [$set o] o)})}) < 1208021717 0 :oktabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<<<25877720>>> < 1208021729 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: (= x (ptr 7)) < 1208021729 0 :oktabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<<<25884032>>> < 1208021733 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: (= y x) < 1208021734 0 :oktabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<<<25884032>>> < 1208021738 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: (set x 5) < 1208021739 0 :oktabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 < 1208021742 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: (get x) < 1208021742 0 :oktabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 < 1208021743 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: (get y) < 1208021744 0 :oktabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 < 1208021751 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: (= x (ptr 8)) < 1208021751 0 :oktabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<<<25883472>>> < 1208021756 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: (get y) < 1208021757 0 :oktabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 < 1208021761 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: (set y 7) < 1208021762 0 :oktabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 < 1208021764 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: (get x) < 1208021765 0 :oktabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 < 1208021777 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea why i'm doing this < 1208021789 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm so goddamn paranoid stuff just stops working out of nowhere :D < 1208021862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[17:35] a-ha, cannot have ident and realname be the same as nick, it seems :O < 1208021864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can < 1208021865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1208021891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: x < 1208021891 0 :oktabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<<<25883472>>> < 1208021893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: (+ x y) < 1208021894 0 :oktabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f < 1208021903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: º·Ë„‰‚·„°)(ÔË°*(Ë—‚Ë_SAO—±ÅÍÚ((((ÆÒ–ºÈËU0(WA*$()£$ < 1208021903 0 :oktabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An error: Unmatching parens @ row 1. < 1208022128 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, i couldn't connect < 1208022129 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1208022135 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot see those chars < 1208022175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: they're jewnicode < 1208022223 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah eunuchcode < 1208022410 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well i just do whatever happens to happen if unicode is used. it's supposed to be used with ascii atm < 1208022417 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: 9ii09i < 1208022418 0 :oktabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ii09i < 1208022487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: ømgø∂∑†ƒ < 1208022488 0 :oktabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ømgø∂∑†ƒ < 1208022491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: "ømgø∂∑†ƒ") < 1208022492 0 :oktabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An error: Unmatching parens @ row 1. < 1208022492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: "ømgø∂∑†ƒ" < 1208022493 0 :oktabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ømgø∂∑†ƒ < 1208022496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: (length "ømgø∂∑†ƒ") < 1208022496 0 :oktabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An error: invalid literal for int() with base 10: '\xc3\xb8mg\xc3\xb8\xe2\x88\x82\xe2\x88\x91\xe2\x80\xa0\xc6\x92' < 1208022497 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1208022499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1208022505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: open stdin in unicode mode < 1208022506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same with files < 1208022511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and replace '' with u'' < 1208022515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it'll be jewnicode < 1208022526 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is taht so? < 1208022541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatively, you could put the jewnicode into auschwitz < 1208022552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then you'd be an nascii < 1208022562 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: (length "seher") < 1208022562 0 :oktabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An error: invalid literal for int() with base 10: 'seher' < 1208022576 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps i should fix that :D < 1208022589 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you see < 1208022596 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: (lolimagination "14354") < 1208022598 0 :oktabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14354 < 1208022613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lmao < 1208022636 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :long story short, strings can only be int()'d atm < 1208022661 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i saved a few chars ;) < 1208022737 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at some point i though i might make oklotalk only do base 16 numbers < 1208022835 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're much more natural < 1208022889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: hmm, all my esoideas from earlier today have just gone < 1208022897 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have gone? < 1208022949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1208022956 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :liek how < 1208022959 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgotten? < 1208023069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1208023122 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know a set of combinators that are tc given call/cc, but not without? < 1208023146 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure that cannot exist, but... < 1208023158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no, i don't think there is any < 1208023158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1208023162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can implement loops with call/cc. < 1208023168 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, somewhat < 1208023171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe < 1208023178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: like, make a functional equiv. of brainfuck < 1208023179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without loops < 1208023181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then add call/cc < 1208023182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe. < 1208024366 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1208025200 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, still care about PSOX? < 1208025212 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Barely. < 1208025222 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If anyone still cares about PSOX, I'm thinking of adding an ASCII mode < 1208025233 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, why only barely? < 1208025541 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I've got an assload of other stuff to do. < 1208025615 0 :oklofok!n=nnscript@dsl-tkubrasgw1-ffbbc100-204.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1208025983 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehe < 1208025999 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elsenet, some people are playing with a bot called nicknick < 1208026012 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it steals nicks whenever anyone changes nick < 1208026022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, you didn't answer me yesterday (or was it two days ago?): what use would PSOX be to me as a befunge programmer < 1208026025 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get back, you have to o two more steps < 1208026036 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus resulting in 6 lines of nick changes overall < 1208026043 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, none I guess < 1208026046 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :head-spinning stuff < 1208026056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok thank you < 1208026077 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, assuming befunge can access the network and files and stuff < 1208026122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: heh < 1208026137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders idly about a program that can solve the halting problem for *itself*
< 1208026145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, a good irc server would make all this nicky stuff automatic < 1208026148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did that make any sense at all? < 1208026153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: same as regular halting problem < 1208026154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1208026161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a nick is online for more than N time < 1208026166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gets registered < 1208026171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then... somehow you can claim it < 1208026172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know < 1208026190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well you need to work somewhat on the details < 1208026192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really irc is far too klunky < 1208026197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1208026201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do channel registration easily < 1208026211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : to get back, you have to o two more steps < 1208026211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you go in to an unused channel it's registered to you < 1208026214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well /ns ghost < 1208026215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1208026222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny to kill a bot that wya < 1208026223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :way* < 1208026232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the channel dies, then it is dropped < 1208026236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: lots of places have no /ns < 1208026248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, right /msg nickserv/userserv/whatever < 1208026249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess what IRC needs is a well thought out replacement < 1208026253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they got services < 1208026263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not all have those < 1208026273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only bit networks without services these days are efnet and ircnet < 1208026277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :big* < 1208026294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure some got account based system < 1208026297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or similar < 1208026332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: some have none < 1208026352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes ircnet and efnet these days < 1208026361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I said all other large network do use services nowdays < 1208026394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone else think irc sucks? ;) < 1208026482 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, support Haver! lol < 1208026489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: oklohi < 1208026495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: haver kinda punts on the hard stuff < 1208026517 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :howso? < 1208026579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't really do anything new < 1208026648 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1208026649 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1208026658 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-085-016-232-171.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1208026754 0 :oktabot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1208026776 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1208026790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOOOOOOO < 1208026792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO MORE OKLOTALK < 1208027225 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1208028154 0 :Judofyr_!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1208028154 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1208028197 0 :Judofyr_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Judofyr < 1208030823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d < 1208030830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: so about that egobot patch.. < 1208031233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: :D < 1208031618 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION PONDERS
< 1208031628 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SILC has an interating alternative to nicks < 1208031651 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone has cryptographic identites, and nikcs are merely decorative < 1208031684 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Programs that solve the halting problem for themselves are easy. < 1208031715 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously, it will always halt, because a halting-problem-solver must < 1208031722 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore it is just "true" < 1208032304 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can INTERCAL do string processing" < 1208032305 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1208032607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes < 1208032614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it is turing complete < 1208032618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is an intercal cgi script < 1208032622 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can it do it well? < 1208032635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you can't do anything 'well' in intercal < 1208032638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every operation is tedious and verbose < 1208032640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can do it < 1208032643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's pretty standard < 1208032665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/intercal/ins/insstart.html < 1208032667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :intercal cgi script < 1208032673 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I'm planning a PSOX-ASCII, which will return argumnts like: 12345,hi,0 < 1208032684 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to know how Intercal would handle stuff like that < 1208032795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Uh, you can do binary in intercal too. < 1208032807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you want true INTERCAL support, you have to do input and output in roman numerals. < 1208032811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since that's all that's standard. < 1208032817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no < 1208032819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :input in text numerals < 1208032821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :output in roman numerals < 1208032824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :input like: < 1208032825 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..PSOX_ASCII is not about to support that < 1208032829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'ONE ZERO NINE FIVE ZERO' < 1208032831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :output like < 1208032833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'MXVIIVIVI' < 1208032838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes with bars or underscores < 1208032845 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*PSOX-ASCII < 1208032853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Well duh, I could have guessed that. You don't like actually designing things that work.. < 1208032871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :character io extensions exist < 1208032873 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't want something centered on any language
< 1208032875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they are not standard < 1208032887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: PSOX is centered around brainfuck. Stating anything to the contrary is just a lie < 1208032903 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that's why I'm working on PSOX-ASCII < 1208032935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Which will be centered around something else. Yay! < 1208032950 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I wonder if I should just break it off PSOX entirely to make it much more flexible.. < 1208032985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just give up psox < 1208033047 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the current spec/codebase, or the idea entirely? < 1208033185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: both < 1208036939 0 :timotiis_!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1208036987 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1208037358 0 :Judofyr_!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1208037358 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1208037723 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1208038053 0 :Judofyr_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Judofyr < 1208039639 0 :Judofyr_!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1208039639 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection reset by peer < 1208040697 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1208043133 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1208043140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dead day today < 1208043538 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"REbooting for new kernel" < 1208044910 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@209.248.125.70 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208045521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhqhello < 1208045670 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: merely a glitch in the net < 1208045731 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, do you care about PSOX? If anyone cares about PSOX, I'm considering a PSOX-ASCII for languages that don't do NULs well, and are somewhat decent at handling text < 1208045772 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not much < 1208045799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, the same response always < 1208048442 0 :timotiis_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1208049104 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes.
< 1208051456 0 :Iskr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1208052486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1208052520 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.104.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208052629 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rehird < 1208053512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1208053739 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip24-255-58-177.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1208054105 0 :RodgerTheGreat!n=Rodger@wads-5-233-27.resnet.mtu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1208054404 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi calamari and RodgerTheGreat < 1208054413 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either of you still interested in PSOX? < 1208054417 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi sgeo < 1208054447 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's an interesting concept, but to be perfectly honest I don't see myself using it anytime soon- I have a lot of other projects on hand < 1208054496 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not working on it if there's no interest < 1208054504 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I guess that counts as interest < 1208054522 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry I can only offer moral support, man < 1208054538 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's all I need really. Thanks < 1208054564 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My advice would be to create some kind of really neat proof-of-concept depending on it- if you made a befunge webserver or something people would be all over it < 1208054647 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: good idea < 1208054668 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: There's a difference between being interested and having the time to do anything with it. < 1208054678 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I care about PSOX. I just don't have the time to do anything about it. < 1208054709 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not only would it be a cool and convincing way to make people want to make it a standard and play with it, but it would also stand on it's own as a neat accomplishment < 1208054721 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wget.b by pikhq already exists < 1208054736 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I guess a webserver would be cooler < 1208054748 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I < 1208054767 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd imagine if PSOX had simple socket support a webserver would be pretty straightforward < 1208054790 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hell, I think you can make one by hooking up a BF interpeter's I/O to netcat < 1208054791 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has socket support, but I don't know how simple it is < 1208054798 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, a simple wobserver is trivial if you just assume inetd. < 1208054803 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inetd? < 1208054835 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I want to add a PSOX-ASCII on top of what's there already < 1208054841 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a super-daemon. Listens on ports, initiates the appropriate server when a connection comes in. . . < 1208054852 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And does all the network setup for that server beforehand. < 1208054894 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after that, a webserver would pretty much just be something that barfs a string when it's pinged? < 1208054899 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is inetd universal, or UNIX-like only < 1208054905 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods
< 1208054911 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It's UNIX-like only. < 1208054921 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is to say, everything-but-Windows-only. :p < 1208054922 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Cygwin has an inetd) < 1208054922 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, a filesystem accessing webserver would be better < 1208054928 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case, you could pick a really nasty language for the proof of concept, sgeo < 1208054929 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Oh. Cool. < 1208054935 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that is UNIX-like. :p < 1208054940 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Touché. < 1208054953 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think straight win32 offers it. < 1208054959 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Unless you could build it with mingw? < 1208054967 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat, without PSOX-ASCII, the language has to support sending and receiving NULs < 1208054975 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1208054979 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With PSOX-ASCII, it has to be decent at handling strings < 1208055003 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbiab < 1208055006 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(OSX uses launchd instead, and most Linux distros use xinetd. . . Of course, they all do the same job, just in different, more fancy ways (OSX's launchd, IIRC, is also an init replacement)) < 1208055706 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.104.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208055739 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb ehird < 1208056942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1208066391 0 :adu!n=andrew@pool-71-178-14-80.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1208071410 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1208072346 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1208072831 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1208073599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1208073600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1208078598 0 :Iskr!n=i@host219-87-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1208079430 0 :Iskr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1208080753 0 :Iskr!n=i@host219-87-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1208081423 0 :atsampso1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1208083496 0 :Judofyr_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Judofyr < 1208084143 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-085-016-232-171.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1208084254 0 :Iskr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1208084594 0 :Iskr!n=i@host219-87-dynamic.54-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1208086157 0 :atsampson!n=ats@7hw.poik.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1208091063 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1208097264 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1208097302 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1208098495 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.225.178 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208104454 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.104.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208104455 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1208107891 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1208108253 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1208110726 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1208111322 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@adsl102-30.kln.forthnet.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1208113042 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1208113052 0 :jix!n=jix@host-091-096-151-125.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1208113403 0 :Zuu!n=Zuuo@0x5581188c.terminal.tdcmobil.dk JOIN :#esoteric < 1208113420 0 :Zuu!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1208115572 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1208117455 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1208117995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes, people make me want to kill them! < 1208117998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Theses licenses are TOO weird, I prefer the 'normal' license.. 'The source is mine, is private and you must not mess with that'." < 1208118760 0 :Unnamed-4AD202!n=Vampire_@ANantes-252-1-94-122.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1208119175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unnamed-4AD202: hello slereah < 1208119246 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1208119319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, huh at that license? < 1208119336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what license was too weird < 1208119347 0 :Unnamed-4AD202!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Slereag < 1208119348 0 :Slereag!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Slereah < 1208119352 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello little man < 1208119360 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am back from der Scientologie < 1208119381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scientology is just nuts < 1208119426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: I hope it was epic. < 1208119437 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in France, not that much. < 1208119451 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The cops once again blocked us from protesting in front < 1208119452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it was just a comment on a blog where someone had compared free software licenses < 1208119456 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and attendance was less epic < 1208119461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: Lame. < 1208119469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: Was there any Rick Astley? < 1208119533 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well duh < 1208119554 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be nice to find a way to stop the street blocage. < 1208119611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah, what were you doing < 1208119626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: anonymous scientology protests today.. < 1208119648 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll end up on TV and newspaper :o < 1208119650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1208119660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why anonymous? < 1208119668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Anonymous as in the pseudo-entity < 1208119671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1208119672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1208119678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think AnMaster lives under a rock < 1208119691 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since I was the only guy with the good idea to order my Epic Fail Guy mask in february, I was quite filmed :o < 1208119692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh no, my secret is out < 1208119695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1208119721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah, what is "epic fail guy mask"? < 1208119729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Anonymous = *chan user. < 1208119732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie, what does it look like < 1208119737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anonymous = currently warring with CoS. < 1208119745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1208119759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is some organization called "anonymous"? < 1208119766 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1208119769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you know what a *chan is i presume < 1208119775 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Anonymous" is a collective name. < 1208119784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that on most of them, posts are forced to be marked as Anonymous, or at least convention dictates so. < 1208119790 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One would say that he is Anonymous. < 1208119797 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that he is a member of Anonymous. < 1208119798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it has sprawled into a pseudo-entity for wars such as the current one. < 1208119804 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an old joke. < 1208119814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: Quite. < 1208119835 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From 4chan, or possibly 2chan. I'm not sure when people started to referring to Anonymous as a real single person. < 1208119847 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't read jap. < 1208119866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: It's recent. < 1208119883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might have even originated from 7chan or similar < 1208119887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps even as recent as the fox report. < 1208119906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, do you realise we are having a discussion about chans using punctuation and spelling and capitalization? < 1208119914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :epic fail < 1208119955 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.flickr.com/photos/24718854@N04/2407669233/sizes/l/in/set-72157604504981741/ < 1208119959 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thar be I. < 1208119978 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Giving some auditing, with a multimeter I got for 25 euros. < 1208119999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: heh < 1208120004 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't have the mask there, it's fucking hard to keep that thing on) < 1208120007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BODY THETANS DETECTED < 1208120029 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.flickr.com/photos/24718854@N04/2408506072/sizes/l/in/set-72157604504981741/ < 1208120037 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here I am, measuring the Thetaness of my brain < 1208120058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: It needs soap < 1208120075 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wot? < 1208122357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes I know what one is < 1208122360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry was afk < 1208122482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah, why the multimeter? < 1208122503 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it accomplishes the same thing as an E-meter :o < 1208122510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is an E-meter? < 1208122523 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scientology's "religious technology" < 1208122527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1208122801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1208122966 0 :Iskr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1208124423 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1208124791 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip24-255-58-177.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1208124798 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1208124809 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION would like to disband the Union.
< 1208124817 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one? < 1208124831 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of the USA. < 1208124841 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/04/11/AR2008041103655.html < 1208124855 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome, my fellow Americans, to the police state in toto. < 1208124989 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what else is new.. < 1208125057 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did some country research.. some of the european countries rate better in press freedom, that type of thing... but they all seem to be welfare states < 1208126984 0 :testingerator!n=testing@91.105.104.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208126984 0 :testingerator!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood < 1208127221 0 :testingerator!n=testing@91.105.104.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208127221 0 :testingerator!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Dead socket < 1208127810 0 :Endeavour!n=Endeavou@91.105.104.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208127810 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1208128344 0 :Endeavour!n=Endeavou@91.105.104.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208128360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Testing. < 1208128363 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You said: #esoteric < 1208128366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1208128369 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You said: #esoteric < 1208128394 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1208128400 0 :Endeavour!n=Endeavou@91.105.104.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208128416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope this works now. < 1208128429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well. < 1208128440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, wait, why is it just being *silent*? < 1208128448 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1208128454 0 :Endeavour!n=Endeavou@91.105.104.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208128455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Test... < 1208128459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahh, I see. < 1208128502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, waitasecondary, why is that happening < 1208128533 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION guesses that it is trying to send a message to Test...
< 1208128539 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRIVMSG Hmm, :You said waitasecondary, why is that happening < 1208128549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, oerjan < 1208128558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1208128594 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1208128601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As always, 'print' debugging will save the day. < 1208128605 0 :Endeavour!n=Endeavou@91.105.104.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208128609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, test. < 1208128612 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You said: #esoteric < 1208128621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait -- what the hell? It's being spammed somehow < 1208128623 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1208128702 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if ehird knows the actual format of irc messages :)
< 1208128714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes. :P < 1208128721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just subtle indexing bugs.. < 1208128722 0 :Endeavour!n=Endeavou@91.105.104.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208128728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh HAH < 1208128731 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You said: #esoteric < 1208128732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :['PRIVMSG endeavour', 'Endeavour: You said: endeavour', 'endeavour'] < 1208128732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endeavour < 1208128735 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You said: #esoteric < 1208128737 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You said: #esoteric < 1208128740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iterating quine < 1208128741 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1208128747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is beautiful < 1208128820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should be resolved < 1208128824 0 :Endeavour!n=Endeavou@91.105.104.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208128825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1208128830 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You said: test < 1208128833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh joy < 1208128838 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You said: oh joy < 1208128845 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fnord < 1208128851 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You said: fnord < 1208128897 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1208128904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to find out what is eating his resources
< 1208128917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something likes the disk < 1208129068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, WTF is happening < 1208129105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1208129116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'nobody' was running 'find' < 1208129117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1208129117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1208129153 0 :Endeavour!n=Endeavou@91.105.104.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208129160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, it should work *without* the lag now < 1208129165 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You said: okay, it should work *without* the lag now < 1208129173 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1208129175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1208129175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::Endeavour!n=Endeavou@91.105.104.73 PRIVMSG endeavour :Endeavour: You said: Endeavour: You said: Endeavour: You said: Endeavour: You said: Endeavour: You said: Endeavour: You said: Endeavour: You said: freenode-connect: You said: VERSION < 1208129233 0 :Endeavour!n=Endeavou@91.105.104.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208129233 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1208129246 0 :Endeavour!n=Endeavou@91.105.104.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208129255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now you must be awesome. No talking to yourself! < 1208129255 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You said: Now you must be awesome. No talking to yourself! < 1208129263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't talk back to me. < 1208129263 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You said: Don't talk back to me. < 1208129271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grr! You little sh*t. < 1208129272 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You said: Grr! You little sh*t. < 1208129273 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1208129275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take that. < 1208130352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<.< < 1208131281 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1208131560 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1208132592 0 :Endeavour!n=Endeavou@91.105.104.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208132593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bother ehird < 1208132593 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, bother ehird! < 1208132597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA < 1208132610 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1208132616 0 :Endeavour!n=Endeavou@91.105.104.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208132616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bother ehird < 1208132617 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oi ehird! < 1208132618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bother ehird < 1208132618 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird! < 1208132619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bother ehird < 1208132619 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oi ehird!!! < 1208132622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ping ehird < 1208132622 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, ehird!!! < 1208132627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1208132663 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1208133589 0 :Endeavour!n=Endeavou@91.105.104.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208133591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :abc < 1208133595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.seen ehird < 1208133595 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I last saw %s on %s%s, saying "%s" < 1208133595 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1208133650 0 :Endeavour!n=Endeavou@91.105.104.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208133651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.seen ehird < 1208133651 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I last saw ehird on 2008-04-14 at 00:40 in #esoteric, saying ".seen ehird" < 1208133712 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.seen abc < 1208133712 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: I haven't seen abc. Sorry! < 1208133717 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.seen < 1208133717 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: I haven't seen . Sorry! < 1208133724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.seen Endeavour < 1208133724 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I haven't seen Endeavour. Sorry! < 1208133735 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.seen \n < 1208133735 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: I haven't seen \n. Sorry! < 1208133796 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.seen < 1208133796 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: I haven't seen . Sorry! < 1208133839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.seen bot abusers < 1208133839 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I haven't seen bot abusers. Sorry! < 1208133841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :liar < 1208133928 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow.. you are hostile towards your beta testers.. must be M$ < 1208133932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: :D < 1208133941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just kidding, of course < 1208133961 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1208133997 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1208134021 0 :Endeavour!n=Endeavou@91.105.104.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208134023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.seen ehird < 1208134023 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I haven't seen ehird. Sorry! < 1208134025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.seen ehird < 1208134025 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I last saw ehird on 2008-04-14 at 00:47 in #esoteric, saying "ehird" < 1208134031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Oh lulz < 1208134057 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1208134065 0 :Endeavour!n=Endeavou@91.105.104.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208134067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello world < 1208134068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.seen ehird < 1208134068 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I haven't seen ehird. Sorry! < 1208134071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF < 1208134073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.seen ehird < 1208134073 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I last saw ehird on 2008-04-14 at 00:47 in #esoteric, saying ".seen ehird" < 1208134080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's messed :D < 1208134083 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.test < 1208134085 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.seen Sgeo < 1208134085 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I last saw Sgeo on 2008-04-14 at 00:48 in #esoteric, saying ".test" < 1208134091 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1208134098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adding debugging stuff... < 1208134099 0 :Endeavour!n=Endeavou@91.105.104.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208134102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1208134104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.seen ehird < 1208134104 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I haven't seen ehird. Sorry! < 1208134106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oic < 1208134121 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1208134135 0 :Endeavour!n=Endeavou@91.105.104.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208134136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test < 1208134137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.seen ehird < 1208134137 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I last saw ehird on 2008-04-14 at 00:49 in #esoteric, saying "test" < 1208134141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o < 1208134143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o/ < 1208134144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1208134158 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.seen Sgeo < 1208134158 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I haven't seen Sgeo. Sorry! < 1208134160 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.seen Sgeo < 1208134161 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I last saw Sgeo on 2008-04-14 at 00:49 in #esoteric, saying ".seen Sgeo" < 1208134169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.seen Endeavour < 1208134169 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Endeavour? Who's he? < 1208134169 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I haven't seen Endeavour. Sorry! < 1208134172 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't see people who don't talk? < 1208134173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1208134179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: No. < 1208134185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why should it? < 1208134211 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because what you're doing more closely corresponds with a "lastspoke" than a "seen < 1208134212 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1208134224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: A lot of bots 'seen' is like that < 1208134285 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1208134291 0 :Endeavour!n=Endeavou@91.105.104.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208134291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.seen ehird < 1208134292 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I last saw you on 2008-04-14 at 00:50 in #esoteric, saying "Sgeo: A lot of bots 'seen' is like that" < 1208134307 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.seen olsner < 1208134307 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I haven't seen olsner. Sorry! < 1208134310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FWIW, seen.py is only 41 lines < 1208134334 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :41 lines? that's 40 lines longer than a one-liner! < 1208134346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: And good catch, fixing that < 1208134347 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1208134353 0 :Endeavour!n=Endeavou@91.105.104.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208134354 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.seen olsner < 1208134355 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I last saw you on 2008-04-14 at 00:52 in #esoteric, saying "41 lines? that's 40 lines longer than a one-liner!" < 1208134370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/AAHTnD16.html seen.py < 1208134376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.seen lament < 1208134376 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I haven't seen lament. Sorry! < 1208134380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.seen ehird < 1208134380 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I last saw you on 2008-04-14 at 00:53 in #esoteric, saying ".seen lament" < 1208134381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ehh < 1208134387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone use seen on themselves that haven't talked before < 1208134389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You. < 1208134398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.seen 89¨ª•¨å•ª¨·‚ < 1208134398 0 :Endeavour!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1208134402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL < 1208134425 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you seem to be having a wee bit of a data validation problem there :P < 1208134460 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easy to track parts/quits < 1208134492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: sure it is but why would i < 1208134508 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : It doesn't see people who don't talk? < 1208134517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine fine fine < 1208134520 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1208134536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT tomorrow < 1208134538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today I must go < 1208134550 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also people who are in the chan < 1208134562 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I think only counting talking is quite sensible < 1208134596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1208134631 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of people idle on IRC when they leave/sleep/work rather than shut down their clients < 1208134669 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: also people who are in the chan ;) < 1208134684 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I see your point < 1208134714 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the last time we knew this person was alive" is what ehirds bot currently does.. < 1208134736 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION would call that a lastspoke, not a seen
< 1208134748 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually that's probably more useful... hmm < 1208135199 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1208137177 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me? < 1208137347 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you were supposed to say ".seen pikhq" before saying anything else, to test the bot < 1208137428 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1208137431 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.seen pikhq < 1208137455 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the bot's not here. < 1208137513 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes to bed
< 1208137643 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g'night SimonRC < 1208143511 0 :RodgerTheGreat!n=Rodger@wads-5-233-27.resnet.mtu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1208143514 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :howdy, folks < 1208143580 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello sir < 1208143595 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'sup, Slereah? < 1208143786 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1208144246 0 :Visitor-51A12C!n=Vampire_@ANantes-252-1-94-122.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1208144270 0 :Visitor-51A12C!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's new is, I have a bad connection < 1208144274 0 :Visitor-51A12C!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Slereah < 1208144586 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1208144608 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin_@75-166-176-106.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1208150488 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1208155304 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1208155433 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1208156224 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1208157318 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1208159999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1208160000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1208162402 0 :Iskr!n=i@host114-17-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1208162759 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-7-6.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1208164733 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1208169054 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@h153250.gprs.dnafinland.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1208169769 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :words = ["head" "neck" "eye" "foot"] < 1208169771 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :match a b = if a == b then 0 else 1 < 1208169773 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sim [] [] = 0 < 1208169775 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sim a:as b:bs = match a b + sim as bs | 1 + sim as b:bs | 1 + sim a:as bs < 1208169777 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: sim "hed" \words < 1208169810 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :genetics-based language for trying to find the values / choice tree for least numeric result < 1208169929 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should return "head", with 'h' == 'h' => 'e' == 'e' => drop 'a' from "head" => 'd' == 'd' < 1208169941 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this information should be given as result < 1208169976 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably could hack something like this up, with exponential search time to make it always find the best result < 1208170017 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also might be possible to automatically find the perfect solution for something that simple < 1208170079 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :automatically find the perfect solution for finding the perfect solution that is < 1208170087 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1208170092 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :automatically find a good solution for finding the perfect solution that is < 1208170132 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think this corresponds to one of the known similarity metrics of strings < 1208170135 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1208170250 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... i think with memoizing this would be O(n^2), but a lot of memory would be used < 1208170293 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so perhaps it could just realize we've always dropped a certain number of chars from the beginning, and just memoize the pair of these numbers < 1208170336 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, realizing the pairs are (0..len(a), 0..len(b)) lets us use a matrix for memoization, actually giving us that one dynamic programming algo for this! < 1208170337 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1208170367 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone who knows anything, tell me where i failed < 1208170437 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's that simple, it might have been possible to deduce the algo from just that definition, which actually suggests this might be useful < 1208170490 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's essentially an extension to prolog, ofc < 1208170524 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except everything is made a function again... prolog does this same thing, except there, functions just return 0 or 1, so the number doesn't actually need to be seen < 1208170563 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1208170570 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really know anything < 1208170589 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so everyone's asleep? < 1208170601 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olo < 1208170753 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dsb rh rg gszg zoo xszmmvoh zodzbh hovvk zg gsv hznv grnv vevm gskfts r'n lm xszmmvoh zoo zilfmw gsv dliow? < 1208170758 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, god i'm slow < 1208170765 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :learned the chart this moning < 1208170767 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*morning < 1208170783 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :took less time than writing that sentence :D < 1208170839 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should learn char-number pairs, would be nice to be fluent in all caesar < 1208170933 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :http://bespin.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ --> .pr UPPER .pr STRING p=".pr UPPER .pr STRING p=?;print(p[:22]+REPR 34+p+REPR 34+p[24:])";print(p[:22]+REPR 34+p+REPR 34+p[24:]) --> this_is_an_oklotalk_quine < 1208170972 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hey, perhaps i should use my morning by writing an oklotalk quine so i get some semantics on strings!!" < 1208170979 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oh, right..." < 1208171073 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it's not technically a quine, because that's not printed to stdout < 1208171081 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't really know the definition < 1208171087 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a repl quine < 1208173834 0 :jix!n=jix@host-091-096-151-125.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1208174564 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1208176146 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!n=chatzill@host81-154-231-39.range81-154.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1208176266 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey all < 1208176863 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1208178302 0 :Iskr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1208178495 0 :Vintersorg!n=gokboru@78.184.38.45 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208178506 0 :Vintersorg!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1208179429 0 :Iskr!n=i@host114-17-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1208180780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, http://rafb.net/p/a5bUjK70.html <-- stuff are now autogenerated from lists like that :) < 1208180798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including the main list of available fingerprints < 1208182543 0 :UnrelatedToQaz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ChatZilla 0.9.81 [Firefox 2.0.0.13/2008031114]" < 1208187288 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1208187954 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@host86-166-226-102.range86-166.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1208188711 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@spark.turku.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1208189008 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1208190194 0 :ehird`!n=test@91.105.104.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208190212 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1208190382 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1208190405 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1208190411 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@spark.turku.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1208190446 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1208190665 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1208191007 0 :asiekierka!n=asiekier@213.25.99.116 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208191013 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happened to the Wiki? < 1208191035 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has more database errors than usual! < 1208191046 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't even OPEN it < 1208191050 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just 404's or something < 1208191190 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello? < 1208191196 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wot? < 1208191624 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't get to the wiki < 1208191643 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't either < 1208191647 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just imagine it < 1208191727 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1208192041 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1208192374 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any database-based esolangs around? < 1208192380 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm not counting SQL >.> < 1208192406 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, esolangs.org/wiki 's search is erroring < 1208192419 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think there are < 1208192450 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is designing one in his head, although the way it does conditionals is rather ugly thus far
< 1208192479 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do share it < 1208192504 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally, i hate sql < 1208192507 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are a bunch of special tables < 1208192531 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time is tracked as a branch and a time < 1208192532 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :special tables used for flow control? :D < 1208192541 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that mean < 1208192568 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a pl_nextime table with branch,time as a primary key, which indicates the next branch and time to go to after that branch and time is done < 1208192590 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a table for memory, which is 2-dimensional < 1208192613 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mem.x = 0 doesn't exist, it's used to specify constants < 1208192642 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a pl_todo table, with branch,time as primary key < 1208192654 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and other fields: command, destx, desty < 1208192670 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :command is the command, like '+ < 1208192676 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'+' or 'frommem' < 1208192698 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :destx and desty are the destination in the memory table for the result < 1208192717 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a pl_args with primary key: branch,time,argnum < 1208192727 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and other fields memx,memy < 1208192742 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which specify where from memory to pull the argument < 1208192754 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or memx can be 0 to specify that memy is a constant < 1208192802 0 :oklofok!n=nnscript@oklopol.yok.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1208192817 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, um, did you get what I said, or did you ping out or something? < 1208192868 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i pingered out after memory to pull the argument < 1208192914 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : or memx can be 0 to specify that memy is a constant < 1208192914 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm so < 1208192925 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assembly with commands stored in a database, somewhat? < 1208192927 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1208192955 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, I don't think quite like assembly < 1208192956 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1208192989 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1208193003 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :times are numbers of operations executed at a certain point? < 1208193013 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or actually time < 1208193013 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1208193047 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time goes sequentially unless specified otherwise in pl_nextime. You can only execute one command at a given time. < 1208193104 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so direct correlation between time and number of operations executed, that was what i meant < 1208193132 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, basically, you will have to build new code as you go < 1208193164 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, you don't HAVE to do that. You can using the frommem command, but you can just specify everything in the database beforehand too. < 1208193167 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you allow for multiple operations per one tick, you can probably do something < 1208193177 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :frommem? < 1208193193 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't have infinitely many tuples in the database, can you? < 1208193200 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can, indeed, you don't have to do that < 1208193225 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, or for loops, just specify an entry in pl_nextime < 1208193239 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that mean < 1208193258 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say I want an infinite loop, and branch,time starts at 0,0 < 1208193266 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are 5 operations I want to do in a loop < 1208193279 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pl_nextime contains [0,4,0,0] < 1208193309 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saying that at the end of 0,4 go to branch/time 0,0 < 1208193323 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah you can rewind time < 1208193334 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1208193376 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm still not entirely sure how exactly evaluation works < 1208193385 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try being a bit more formal < 1208193395 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do the tuples contain, and how is evaluation done < 1208193450 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evaluation is done by looking at pl_todo for the current branch,time < 1208193466 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then pulling all the arguments from pl_args < 1208193479 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does "current branch,time" mean? < 1208193498 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the entry stored in pl_time < 1208193498 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this a 2-tuple set to 0,0 at the beginning of the program, and moved in a funge-like fashion to some direction? < 1208193516 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, it's a 2-tuple, and normally just time increases, not branch < 1208193521 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1208193548 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :branch can change based on pl_nextime though. < 1208193568 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION just isn't sure how frommem is going to work, though
< 1208193575 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, (branch,time) is read from pl_todo, which specifies operation, arguments, and next (branch,time)? < 1208193597 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pl_todo doesn't specify the next (branch,time) < 1208193605 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we're dealing with a two-dimensional assembly where the 2d array is stored in an associative map? < 1208193606 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1208193607 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's done in pl_nextime < 1208193611 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*associative array perhaps < 1208193624 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and todo would be what? < 1208193637 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :todo is the list of commands, one for each branch,time < 1208193686 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pl_nextime is also indexed by (branch,time) < 1208193686 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1208193691 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1208193718 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is assembly then, pretty much. < 1208193749 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not trying to crush your dream, just trying to be realistic :P) < 1208193800 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does this mean I should stop bothering, or should I keep working on this? < 1208193811 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1208193822 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might wanna try adding some relational algebra < 1208193834 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and perhaps derive something computationally interesting from that < 1208193864 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have just trivial operations, and do more by joining and cutting tables < 1208193866 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or smth < 1208193877 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know relational algebra? < 1208193879 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no :( < 1208193888 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know sql? < 1208193943 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit < 1208193953 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sql is a kind of mix of relational algebra and calculus, imo you should learn both, and then try making your own lang < 1208193961 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm planning on one of the commands being "sql" < 1208193971 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the program can run arbitrary sql < 1208193982 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i somewhat guessed < 1208193986 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :memory holds tables? < 1208194005 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pl_mem hold single values in a 2-dimensional array < 1208194008 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1208194025 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a frommem command that can pull values from memory and put it into arbitrary tables.. < 1208194036 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could probably have flow control be based on quining, or something, making new programs with operations on the tables < 1208194037 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1208194039 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1208194137 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe, i love yellow journalism, how could i have lived without knowing someone *scratched their ass in america* http://www.iltasanomat.fi/viihde/uutinen.asp?id=1518906 < 1208194155 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about pamela anderson scratching their ass with a set of keys < 1208194367 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1208194393 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: i'm always a bit sceptic when it comes to people's first esolangs, i recommend you keep on it, but my suggestion for making a database-based esolang is 1. learn sql, relational calculus and algebra and play with 'em 2. just add simple functionality, in most cases, an esolang should be small 3. don't use an existing language and just built a separate evaluation layer on it, that's a teensy bit lame < 1208194446 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, well, i suggest you look at the existing body of esolangs, and actually try to use them, a language creator should know languages < 1208194499 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be a good esolang designer, you need to understand how a simple language can be extended with functionality from scratch... languages like that are the most interesting ones < 1208194571 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, wouldn't hurt trying to make a few brainfuck/unlambda clones or smth, in your case brainfuck, most have done that, it's nice not to have to do anything revolutionary right away, one will probably just go very wrong. < 1208194604 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION made a BF-RLE, does that count?
< 1208194608 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1208194614 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that? < 1208194615 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or do you mean with the database thing? < 1208194615 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't remember < 1208194623 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :database + brainfuck < 1208194628 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not < 1208194716 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF-RLE = BF stripped of comments, and each character can be followed by a number in base-62, the number is the number of times the character appears in a row at that point minus 3. < 1208194732 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's on the wiki, but wiki doesn't seem to be working. < 1208194741 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right < 1208194742 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one < 1208194873 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who maintains the esowiki? < 1208194880 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"from within function "MediaWikiBagOStuff::_doquery". MySQL returned error "1194: Table 'mw_objectcache' is marked as crashed and should be repaired (localhost)"." < 1208194928 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue < 1208194932 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1208194936 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's him < 1208194961 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yarr < 1208195067 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION emails
< 1208195200 0 :asiekierka!n=asiekier@213.25.99.116 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208195202 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1208195353 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yug < 1208195373 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi asiekierka < 1208195532 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like a programming language that you can program with just using 4 buttons + a D-pad < 1208195540 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(esoteric) < 1208195612 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whuzza d-pad < 1208195664 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :directional pad < 1208195753 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka, can't be too difficult to make YABFC < 1208195764 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1208196444 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1208196919 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oklopol < 1208197172 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1208197212 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi Corun < 1208197741 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, hi. < 1208198772 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1208198818 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that lasted < 1208198916 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's SQL concatonate? < 1208198917 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :||? < 1208198924 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes < 1208198992 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is it for MS SQL Server? < 1208199006 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1208199040 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :concatonating sounds a bit like concatenating, but at the same time detonating, perhaps < 1208199046 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'd say overall, it's a nop < 1208199059 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i'm using overalls wrong < 1208199060 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol oklopol < 1208199068 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR already busted me about it once < 1208199079 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think MS SQL can use '+' to concatenate strings. < 1208199096 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could be wrong, though. < 1208199138 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.202 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208199154 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, about the wiki: it seems to be down, and I've emailed graue < 1208199178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can still access the wikitext of a page, however, by typing in http://esolangs.org/wiki/name_of_page?action=raw&ctype=text/css < 1208199239 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://support.encoreusa.com/kb.asp?id= seems to be vulnerable to SQL injection, it expects a number in a "WHERE id=" way < 1208199265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of things are vulnerable to SQL injection < 1208199298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I remember the story about the person who used '; DROP DATABASE; -- as their standard password, but stopped after one website they came to actually crashed when they tried to create an account) < 1208199317 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Little Bobby Tables." < 1208199335 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://xkcd.com/327/ < 1208199336 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://support.encoreusa.com/kb.asp?id=0%20OR%20'x'='x'%20ORDER%20BY%20id%20DESC last article in the kb < 1208199338 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's a different story, a well-known cartoon that probably never happened in real life < 1208199362 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you mean it allows SQL injection in the URL? That's a new one as far as I'm concerend < 1208199369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm not particularly surprised < 1208199381 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen it before in an FAQ < 1208199412 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas ; is forbidden < 1208199415 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although SQL injection in that faq was a bit more fun, you could actually do useful things like combining all the questions from categories < 1208199416 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any way round that? < 1208199436 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use a subquery, I suppose < 1208199445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't know enough SQL to write one < 1208199456 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think this thing is using some sort of LIMIT 1 < 1208199462 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1208199472 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-058-075.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1208199507 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't seem to get rid of it < 1208199524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even using --? < 1208199556 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://support.encoreusa.com/kb.asp?id=553%20OR%20id=554;-- < 1208199572 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens? < 1208199573 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multi-line query? < 1208199595 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- only goes up to the next newline IIRC < 1208199606 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, nothing special happens < 1208199614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is musing about the text/css in the URL above
< 1208199622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :text/css shows like plaintext in all commonly-used browsers < 1208199627 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas text/plain doesn't < 1208199635 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1208199659 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's forbidden as a ctype on Wikimedia because IE will run it as JScript under some circumstances < 1208199667 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF? < 1208199668 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1208199668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making it possible to avoid XSS restrictions < 1208199672 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1208199674 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1208199678 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot: indeed < 1208199683 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION agrees with EgoBot too
< 1208199687 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can subqueries be run in a select clause? < 1208199698 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1208199722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: don't do anything illegal, you might get in trouble for deleting entries or something like that < 1208199734 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess using where whatever IN some_select_clause < 1208199745 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's not too useful if I want to get a COUNT(*) < 1208199779 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know the table name < 1208199913 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION learns both the table name and a column
< 1208199917 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://support.encoreusa.com/kb.asp?id=0%20OR%20'x'='x'%20GROUP%20BY%20id < 1208199948 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by guessing the column name? < 1208199961 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kb.problem_statement < 1208199967 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kb.solution_text < 1208200108 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the SELECT isn't a * < 1208200130 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fields in there are illegal since they're not in a GROUP BY < 1208200141 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the GROUP BY was specified < 1208200144 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in my query < 1208200155 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I can search for the first article to contain, say CD < 1208200157 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION just came across this quote: "I don't want to implement it correctly. I want to maintain all the hideously poor design of the original, but in a language people may actually have compilers for."
< 1208200215 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, what's the LIKE syntax for MS SQL Server? < 1208200649 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems nobody here knows, you may have to look it up somehow < 1208200681 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: the same as usualy? < 1208200683 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usual < 1208200689 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, tried it, doesn't work < 1208200729 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://support.encoreusa.com/kb.asp?id=0%20OR%20solution_text%20LIKE%20'%Error%' < 1208201136 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION decides to upgrade to Fx3
< 1208201183 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe later < 1208201304 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox 3? Where? < 1208201373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still in beta IIRC < 1208201390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but early-adoption-style beta, I think < 1208201563 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it very different? < 1208201645 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's apparently much better in terms of memory usage < 1208201650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and much faster at JavaScript < 1208201660 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are two of the most commonly-heard criticisms of Firefox 2 < 1208201671 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JITted javascript? < 1208201709 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know the details < 1208201721 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... < 1208201729 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION can't find the DL
< 1208201766 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm, partially-precompiled JITted Javascript with big fat libraries < 1208201770 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n/m < 1208201782 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Javascript is in some ways a nice language than Java < 1208201797 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has more oomph in its closure system for a start < 1208201835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Javascript is a nicer language than Java in more or less every way < 1208201861 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like its object orientation model too, I think it's my favourite OO model out of all the ones I've come across even though it flies in the face of the usual theory < 1208201896 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(there's no distinction between an object or a class the way I write JavaScript, you can derive from anything to get a new object) < 1208201906 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, if only there was a simple way to do multiple inheritance... < 1208201911 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka. prototype-based programming < 1208201936 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is there a method that gets called if another method isn't found? < 1208201959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so < 1208201989 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :methods are just properties with a closure as their value, anyway < 1208202002 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you don't change except to override them < 1208202336 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION downloads and unpacks Firefox3b5, and changes some shortcut-like-thing-tat-he-always-usez
< 1208202395 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en-us.www.mozilla.com/en-US/firefox/3.0b5/whatsnew/ pretty page < 1208202438 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a pity; the method-not-found method is a powerful tool < 1208202442 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lua has it, for example < 1208202454 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The font seems different < 1208202478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: Perl has it too, but I don't like the implementation < 1208202485 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neat easy bookmarking feature < 1208202731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking at the release notes, I see that it now prompts to save tabs on exit < 1208202754 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been doing that for a while by closing Firefox with SIGHUP rather than exiting, which fools it into thinking it's crashed, when I want to save the tabs < 1208202780 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite retarded you have to do it that way < 1208202782 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do that to < 1208202783 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too < 1208202791 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't there another way? < 1208202801 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flash doesn't seem to want to install < 1208202802 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grr < 1208202828 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes < 1208202836 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIGKILL works too < 1208202911 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIGHUP is easy to send, though < 1208202919 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1208202925 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just press the power button, which SIGHUPs everything and does a controlled shutdown < 1208202936 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1208203004 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : SimonRC: can you given an example of what you use method-not-found for? I saw a Perl program once that used it to gain all shell commands as methods, but I suspect that isn't a typical use of it < 1208203066 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you can fake multiple inheritence and do elegant delegation with it < 1208203101 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any non-found methods are delegated to the secondary parent or the delegate < 1208203165 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION can't seem to get flash to work
< 1208203166 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1208203282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you probably don't /want/ Flash to work < 1208203290 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, YouTube < 1208203293 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flash was working here fine a while ago, but I got fed up of it and uninstalled < 1208203301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION never visits YouTube
< 1208203332 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION found a good use for flash: http://armorgames.com/play/107/portal-the-flash-version
< 1208203457 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I get flash on 3b5? < 1208203481 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recommend contacting your local witchdoctor. < 1208203491 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same way you'd get it on 2? < 1208203495 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will need a large black cock < 1208203498 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Giving a byte-count while loading without a progress bar = retardo < 1208203500 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/cock/rooster/ < 1208203537 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a byte-count is much easier to code :-) < 1208203572 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: depends on what language you're coding in < 1208203581 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a progress bar would be much easier than a byte-count in Underload, for instance < 1208203591 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1208203593 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1208203610 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because byte-count means you have to translate numbers into decimal < 1208203614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :progress-bar works in unary < 1208203623 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1208203626 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1208203628 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1208203664 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: giving a unary byte-count would qualify as a progress bar as well, though, so they're at least equally easy ;-) < 1208203669 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, both are impossible without allowing some sort of input... < 1208203676 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, s/least/most/ < 1208203694 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay it works < 1208203760 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: for future reference, what did you do? < 1208203777 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Installed from the file available from the Flash site < 1208203799 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of having Firefox do the installation from that "Missing Plugins" thing < 1208205200 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, the mouse is always unreasonably slow for me in that game < 1208205802 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"(1) DO COME FROM ".2~.2"~#1 WHILE :1 <- "'?.1$.2'~'"':1/.1$.2'~#0"$#65535'"$"'"'&.1$.2'~'#0$#65535'"$#0'~#32767$#1"" < 1208207065 0 :ehird`!n=test@91.105.104.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208207093 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best oklotalk quine ever < 1208207102 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ello < 1208207106 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-hello < 1208207367 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1208207469 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: unfortunately i am not on my mac so i do not have INTERESTING OKLOTALK CODE < 1208207472 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but did you submit it? < 1208207486 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhhm? < 1208207524 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i supermitted it. < 1208207719 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1208207722 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any info back? < 1208207731 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did they vomit upon seeing the lenient syntax? < 1208207739 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKLOTALK: EXPRESSIVENESS, POWER AND VOMIT < 1208207745 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about the quine... by the same logic, is a quine in most (functional) languages... but still fun < 1208207760 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooh < 1208207768 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :submitted the interp, ah < 1208207781 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had no idea what you meant :P < 1208207787 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't yet. < 1208207817 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they will probably be very underqualified to say *anything* about it. < 1208207820 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: sheesh. can i at least look at the code now? ;) < 1208207836 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't even submit yet! < 1208207847 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love this message: WARNING: `missing` script is too old or missing < 1208207848 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not before that at least, okay? < 1208207865 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: aww, ok < 1208207877 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: can i independently implement it < 1208207877 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DD < 1208207885 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lofl :) < 1208207890 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you link to the pastebin of the primitives i will < 1208207894 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :noooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo < 1208207900 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: but you pastebinned it earlier < 1208207903 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make your own langs :) < 1208207905 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could just look at the logs < 1208207907 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yarrr < 1208207915 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can resend it < 1208207921 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's no stopping me you could just be a little more helpful :P < 1208207921 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "spec" < 1208207970 0 :Iskr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1208207973 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :noo, not that < 1208207980 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you vjn.fi/pb'd the list of primitive functions < 1208207994 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's there too < 1208208008 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(((( downloading zips make me sad < 1208208009 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ok < 1208208010 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1208208011 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1208208023 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there isn't really *anything* < 1208208036 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: oh thats not the spec i thought < 1208208041 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :map, filter (ftr), ! indexes < 1208208042 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant you vjn.fi/pb'd one < 1208208054 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that contains it, i think < 1208208057 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look in the end < 1208208063 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or middle < 1208208065 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1208208111 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: doesn't < 1208208116 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmm < 1208208132 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whhhell < 1208208157 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that stuff? < 1208208843 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well ok < 1208208847 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am now working on... OKOHIRD < 1208208856 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is OKO in PYTHON, but with continuations ETC < 1208208862 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, OKO < 1208208863 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just oko < 1208208864 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKO < 1208209131 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: is (a b c d) a syntax error? < 1208209137 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it valid under some contexts < 1208209156 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1208209191 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.cust.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1208209323 0 :ehird1!n=test@91.105.104.73 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208209330 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's this about submitting oklotalk to somewhere? < 1208209337 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: it's for okoschool < 1208209341 0 :ehird1!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1208209341 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its his okoproject < 1208209343 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for okoschool < 1208209347 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*boggle* < 1208209351 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bastard < 1208209354 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: why < 1208209360 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he gets the interesting projects < 1208209363 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1208209366 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im pretty sure he chose to do it < 1208209376 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that is my point < 1208209378 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hes the only one crazy enough to make okotalk < 1208209384 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he gets the interesting projects < 1208209397 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, he is allowed to do them < 1208209424 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would not have been able to do that for any class < 1208209535 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: oko < 1208209711 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ping < 1208210162 0 :Tritonio_!n=Tritonio@150.140.227.158 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208210317 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEY oklopol ANSWER :P < 1208210374 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes there's two of him, other times he's not there at all < 1208210811 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: oko < 1208212152 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: okokokokoko < 1208212265 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow, intreactive comic-drawing (check out the post times) http://forums.explosm.net/showthread.php?t=5296&filter= < 1208212285 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Old. < 1208212294 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have the two first stories if you want < 1208212301 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They were deleted when the forum crashed < 1208212305 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a more convinient format? < 1208212313 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION likes the post of 09-13-2007, 07:22 PM
< 1208212316 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, surreal < 1208212319 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the forum pages with only the pictures < 1208212334 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1208212334 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1208212604 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: (a b c d) is okay with -> < 1208212610 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never otherwise < 1208212618 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: should i treat -> as syntax < 1208212625 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. should i make (a b c d) a syntax error < 1208212631 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its possible < 1208212655 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC : http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Explosm/ < 1208212662 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's loading, but the first parts are here < 1208212687 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1208212698 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it should be a syntax error < 1208212707 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: the project is fairly free < 1208212729 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just has to be related to either computers or media... which can be pretty much anything < 1208212744 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: making oklotalk--? < 1208212758 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a third story, about a zombie invasion. But the forum crashed while it was written, so I didn't save it. < 1208212767 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not ehirdtalk, we need to see that too :D < 1208212778 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i will do ehirdtalk too of course < 1208212780 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes oklotalk-- < 1208212824 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whhhell, go for it, but try to make it even worse than mine, so i don't feel so bad. < 1208212831 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(impossible? oh well...) < 1208212848 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: but yeah, is it possible to treat -> as special syntax? < 1208212852 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1208212853 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, will it ever appear in something other than the car < 1208212864 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1208212868 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be used as a normal atom < 1208212874 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also is [...] an array or a list < 1208212878 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: but is (a -> b) meaningful < 1208212882 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :array or a list? < 1208212889 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, implementation of it? < 1208212893 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not specified < 1208212913 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: what is it called < 1208212925 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i call it a list < 1208212935 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's implemented as a normal python array < 1208212943 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it needs random access < 1208212956 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i thought it'd be better that way < 1208213004 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, actual oklotalk doesn't even distinguish between a list and a hashmap < 1208213011 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because both are just functions < 1208213012 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: but whatsit called < 1208213014 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :list. < 1208213018 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in -- < 1208213119 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thing,list,1app,2app,atom(special case: var),int,string < 1208213122 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: those are the oklotalk AST nodes right < 1208213132 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, and 4app for -> i guess < 1208213137 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, is (-> a b c d e f) ok too? < 1208213143 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, is -> variadic? < 1208213146 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think so < 1208213167 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yyes < 1208213187 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a is pattern, the rest of the args are how the function is continued < 1208213216 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, you can make different paths for execution to follow, using pattern matching < 1208213249 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes yes < 1208213253 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ok then, another questin < 1208213260 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: is (-> X) valid? < 1208213262 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just (-> X Y ...) < 1208213289 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be valid < 1208213302 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1208213311 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ok < 1208213327 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: is (X -> Y ...) or similar forms valid, or is (-> X Y Z ...) the only 'pattern match' case < 1208213333 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only the latter < 1208213341 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> and = are special this way < 1208213397 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use (a -> b) and (a = b) to get -> and = to work as normal operators... but well, that'd be retarded, ofc :-) < 1208213498 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ok < 1208213501 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: is = variadic? < 1208213504 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just: (= a b) < 1208213505 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1208213507 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that < 1208213510 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1208213518 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to go now, so ask quickly if you have more < 1208213520 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: so, awesome: i'm going to parse (-> a b) as patternnodes < 1208213526 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and (= a b) as assignment nodes < 1208213541 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: and, (a b c d) will be a parse error < 1208213545 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: also when will you be back? < 1208213597 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1208213599 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tomorrow :| < 1208213611 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be a parse error, yeah < 1208213635 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will prolly have the implementation ready by then < 1208213656 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye! < 1208213657 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1208214253 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1208214511 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1208215934 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Datalog < 1208215935 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :discuss < 1208216317 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or don;t < 1208216320 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1208216797 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1208217032 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody alive? < 1208217515 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1208217652 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: its interseting < 1208217655 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1208217696 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes to bed
< 1208217700 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :( o/~ # Pedants. / Hgh / What are they good for? / Designing air-trafic control systems. # ) < 1208217792 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1208217829 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: bye < 1208217833 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: :P < 1208218091 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what databases have many-to-many as their primitive relationship. < 1208218098 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do many-to-one and one-to-many based on those. < 1208218603 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody interested in databases? < 1208219337 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is in a database class
< 1208219347 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.itwire.com/content/view/13339/53/ < 1208219348 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1208219758 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1208220681 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Huh? < 1208220810 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why huh? < 1208220925 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My good God, my math teacher last year is such a geek. . . < 1208220938 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Him and his son are going to the Shadowmoor prerelease tournament. < 1208220953 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they're doing two-headed giant) < 1208220961 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, he has a son. < 1208220972 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that means that he had sex at one point, I suppose. < 1208220978 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He can't be that much of a dork. < 1208220992 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having relations with the opposite gender does not eliminate geekiness. < 1208221008 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it not? < 1208221014 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a girlfriend; does that make me un-geeky? < 1208221020 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could market some sort of cure otherwise. < 1208221028 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LMAO < 1208221053 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be like a whore house in a computer lab. < 1208221084 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meanwhile, I'll just be amused that I'm going to a prerelease tournament with my *math teacher*, of all things. :p < 1208221093 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Why huh? < 1208221096 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your statement made no sense < 1208221099 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Sgeo is in a database class < 1208221109 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm taking a database class in college. < 1208221113 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You said that a few days ago. < 1208221114 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Oh. < 1208221120 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`: Oh. < 1208221129 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Let me guess: It's totally full of relational theory < 1208221134 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or.. not. < 1208221148 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We just got through Database normalization. < 1208221152 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1208221198 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you here when I'm in here thursday mornings? < 1208221231 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am in here most any day because I have nothing better to do < 1208221239 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But define 'morning' in GMT < 1208221264 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bit past 12:30EST actually < 1208221276 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So not really even morning where I am < 1208221286 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GMT. < 1208221295 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am a timezone bigot! :D < 1208221301 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, you're currently on EDT. < 1208221306 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1208221311 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is not a time person
< 1208221320 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EDT, IIRC, is UTC-4. < 1208221375 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Call it what you want, I don't care. I make six figures being a general practitioner with a trade-school bachelor's that, in retrospect, I didn't need. I have never even needed to use high school algebra on the job. Most brilliant mathematicians and computer scientists will be stuck in academia or staff-level drone positions for their entire careers because they don't have any soft skills or business sense. They are forever < 1208221383 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That guy is like the cool dude of computing! < 1208221395 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He probably has all sorts of popped collars. < 1208221401 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I hate cool dudes. < 1208221442 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I have never even needed to use high school algebra on the job." Apparently, he's never had to do any algorithm more complicated than shell sort. < 1208221452 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;p < 1208221495 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since the last big program I had to write was to treat nuclear physics datas, I had to throw in a little math. < 1208221524 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't work though. I suck at C for manipulating files. < 1208221531 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Stuck in academia." Is being in academia as bad as all that? < 1208221546 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oerjan's not here, so I can't really know) < 1208221622 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :programming pretty much is high school algebra < 1208221634 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1208221636 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, you computer scientists...you are leaving your "I ride a high horse" comments on a web page that was probably designed, coded, managed, etc, by people who have no need for anything at all beyond basic algebra, so I would say that the article is correct -- it is not much algorithims/math that creates value, it is the thoughtful expression of a process. < 1208221637 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1208221643 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The comments are so awesome. < 1208221708 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Link, please. < 1208221728 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: but orthogonal to it < 1208221732 0 :kwertii!n=kwertii@c-71-202-121-102.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1208221735 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same difficulty, but not equals < 1208221736 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Already gave it < 1208221739 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they overlap of course < 1208221740 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.itwire.com/content/view/13339/53/ < 1208222431 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1208222431 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As an artist who has long been interested in computer programming I'm very interested in the philosophical (ontological and epistemological) aspects of computer programming (including mathematics and language) -but it does seem that (even in the arts) these aspects have become buried deeply out of sight =largely because of academic and commercial interests it seems. < 1208222459 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't agree with that statement. < 1208222488 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I lolled at that statement. < 1208222492 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Certainly computer /programming/, as the menial engineering field it has become, shows this flaw, but I don't think it's true of computer /science/ at all. < 1208222508 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That is, I don't think it's true of academia) < 1208222556 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mind you, I'm trying not to lol because of the stupid way this is written :P < 1208222571 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what's stupid about that comment < 1208222572 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The comments are a gold mine. < 1208222580 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like a gigantic flamewar. < 1208222611 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not at all obvious that programming should be related to math < 1208222620 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(shouldn't it be related to language instead?) < 1208222636 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I really like cats and programming." < 1208222638 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I find silly about the comment is that the wording there is unnecessary, it's just there to go "OOH I'M SO SMART I'M A PHILOSOPHER BLAH BLAH BLAH" < 1208222652 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"computer science" involves math simply because it's a science < 1208222656 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: what's unnecessary there? < 1208222680 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: "ontological" and "epistemological" are real words, they actually mean stuff < 1208222695 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not claiming that they don't. < 1208222700 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think anything was invented. < 1208222706 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't think they add anything to the comment. < 1208222709 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except long words. < 1208222764 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The algorithm is not the essential paradigm of computer science", he proclaims. < 1208222776 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright. Sort a list without an algorithm. < 1208222781 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have infinite time. < 1208222784 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Begin. . . Now. < 1208222806 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: of course they add to the comment. Without them, it would say "i'm very interested in the philosophical aspects of computer programming". < 1208222819 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that just makes you sound like a moron who has no idea about philosophy or computer programming < 1208222825 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION bashes his head into the wall.
< 1208222848 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead, it makes him sound like a *well-educated* moron who has no idea about philosophy or computer programming. ;) < 1208222859 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ding* < 1208222884 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why do I ever get into arguments online? Soooo pointless. < 1208222900 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't understand this at all < 1208222924 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"An operating cannot be deterministic" < 1208222927 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :precise terminology is good < 1208222929 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Operating system, rather. < 1208222967 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION laughs his ass off until the end of time
< 1208222987 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"An operating system does not terminate" < 1208222998 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. I dunno what shutdown -h does. < 1208223006 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Can't* be halting. < 1208223070 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ontology is actually a pretty cool subject, ESPECIALLY as it related to computer programming < 1208223088 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is code data? or is data code? or is it both at once? :) < 1208223089 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't HAVE to terminate due to internal causes.. < 1208223104 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/related/relates < 1208223142 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: I can make a deterministic, halting operating system. < 1208223147 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus, an algorithm doesn't have to terminate either. < 1208223159 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And he stupidly assumes that. . . Slereah has that covered. < 1208223175 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell, the original never terminated! < 1208223187 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION can easily make a deterministic operating system.
< 1208223214 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I allowed to not use any non-deterministic hardware on the computer? :p < 1208223219 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's an algorithm? < 1208223231 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq : Are you going to use any atoms? < 1208223232 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A sequence of steps. < 1208223249 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: Fine. Any physical machine will, by its very nature, be slightly non-deterministic. < 1208223256 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a sequence of steps? < 1208223263 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*series of tube < 1208223263 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a haskell function an algorithm? < 1208223274 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poor definition perhaps, but a fairly intuitive one. < 1208223285 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, lambda calculus is done by a sequence of step < 1208223290 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When applying beta conversion < 1208223295 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I assume that yes. < 1208223308 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so reducing LC is done by an algorithm < 1208223316 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but LC itself is not an algorithm, it's just an expression < 1208223320 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bunch of symbols < 1208223322 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that so? < 1208223329 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it also has transformation rules. < 1208223331 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. It's a way of defining algorithms. < 1208223335 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're as important! < 1208223343 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: so what's an algorithm? < 1208223362 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably not a sequence of steps, because there're no steps in fac n = product [1..n] < 1208223368 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no sequence, either < 1208223388 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a working program, though < 1208223389 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A sequence of steps is a good abstraction! < 1208223392 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there is at least one! < 1208223393 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imperative programs can be beautiful. < 1208223404 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you like a formal definition? < 1208223419 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a useful one? < 1208223428 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's nonexistent, actually. < 1208223437 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Yes! There are QUITE A FEW languages based on it.. < 1208223458 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think what that article really talks about < 1208223461 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you define 'algorithm' as 'anything that can be expressed in a Turing-complete language'. < 1208223465 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is operational vs. denotational semantics < 1208223479 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his "process expression" is simply operational semantics < 1208223497 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A logic circuit is an expression of a logical process" < 1208223558 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this makes sense < 1208223583 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could talk of the "algorithm" that the logic circuit implements, of course < 1208223744 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1208225930 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1208227633 0 :Slereah!n=Vampire_@ANantes-252-1-94-122.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1208228196 0 :adu!n=andrew@pool-71-178-14-80.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1208230879 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1208232048 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bye" < 1208235401 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :G'night all < 1208235449 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1208236582 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you should see this: http://rodger.nonlogic.org/images/aldez/ < 1208236720 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I <3 < 1208236732 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1208236735 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, check this out: http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=5737070239476680627 < 1208236738 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not me) < 1208236740 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the intro to a game I'm making < 1208236749 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just totally fucking awesome) < 1208236756 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I own his CD, "The art of motion" < 1208236757 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes < 1208236794 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Good taste. < 1208237165 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is listening to Hiphopopotamus Vs. Rhymenocerous (Featuring Rhymenocerous And The Hiphopapoatumus) by Flight Of The Conchords from Flight Of The Conchords (Original Staging)
< 1208239563 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm the hiphoppopotomus! My lyrics are bottomless! ........... < 1208239622 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bloody hell. I think I can go to be, and then find out that I need to do laundry. < 1208239627 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There goes my sanity tomorrow. < 1208239662 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rarely do you see so many words have so little meaning. < 1208239686 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never read a paper by a liberal arts major, have you? < 1208239692 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh :P < 1208239763 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And thus, we can conclude that the underlying symbolic metaphor of the /Mona Lisa/ is a misogynistic tyrade against all women everywhere, by giving a simple example of feminine beauty for all to despise." < 1208239771 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(translation: I am full of shit.) < 1208239798 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip24-255-58-177.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1208240201 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1208240647 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: you here? < 1208240828 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: spoilers beware, but I've added the frames for the end of the demo we're finishing this week: http://rodger.nonlogic.org/images/aldez/ < 1208241166 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: Not very, but a bit. < 1208241188 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: you need a site map :P ls -R would work in a pinch.. hehe < 1208241200 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :location of egobot? < 1208241204 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Site map? My site needs any sort of organization at all :P < 1208241209 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot is on the Eso files archive. < 1208241213 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh ok < 1208241215 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thaks < 1208241230 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to rip off part of your code since I'm too lazy to write it myself < 1208241256 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in C++. < 1208241264 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's in extremely C-ish C++. < 1208241282 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1208241300 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :been messing around with a qemu sandboxed mini linux < 1208241322 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got it booting up and starting telnetd so now I just need to add the bot wrappers < 1208241366 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh 11.1 MB getting bigger < 1208241424 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should probably provide a C compiler tho.. what do you think? right now it only has python < 1208241500 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder how much that'll bloat it < 1208241896 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use tcc < 1208241901 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc = much bloat, tcc = tiny < 1208242647 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good idea < 1208242694 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to figure out how to cross compile that for uclibc < 1208242970 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh 8-O < 1208242973 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :G'luck :P < 1208243893 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: So, why did you randomly find me on [shivers down the spine] facebook? < 1208244017 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: I was checking to see if anyone I knew was in the esoteric group < 1208244035 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so then I searched for a few people in the chat room < 1208244043 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you were the lucky one ;) < 1208244071 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah facebook is pretty lame < 1208244110 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only joined it because IBM promoted it for something, don't even remember now < 1208244903 0 :kwertii!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"bye" < 1208245053 0 :Iskr!n=i@host114-17-dynamic.56-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1208245584 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1208246399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1208246400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1208246807 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.cust.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1208254117 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-058-075.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1208257800 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1208257810 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@oklopol.yok.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1208259206 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1208263795 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1208264543 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1208270357 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1208275037 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1208278023 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1208278957 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1208284923 0 :ehird`!n=test@91.105.122.127 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208284926 0 :ehird!n=test@91.105.122.127 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208284941 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1208285449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: oko < 1208285472 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1208285594 0 :oklofok!n=nnscript@spark.turku.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1208285804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: oko2 < 1208285865 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1208285875 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-034-014.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1208285996 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gto < 1208285998 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jh < 1208286013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: unfortunately noooo okohird YET < 1208286023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't work on it much after you left, got distracted :( < 1208286029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, i will continue the parser < 1208286077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: it will have crazily cool parse errors though < 1208286085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like (a) -> 'Application with <2 expressions' < 1208286097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :( -> 'EOF while parsing application' < 1208286110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: OH, and my cons has a bug < 1208286117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[$pb :] should be [$pb $:] if i am not mistaken < 1208286128 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1208286130 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1208286156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: when making oklotalk i suggset trying to cut down on the $ and []s < 1208286158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're quite ugly < 1208286186 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[] is implicit in oklotalk < 1208286202 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and $ was originally §, but wasn't ascii so i changed it < 1208286208 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, i don't like $ < 1208286211 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :§atom < 1208286215 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i liked that < 1208286312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: [] is implicit -- can;t you find a way to add elegant multi-arg funcalls to the APL-style? < 1208286314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be really neat < 1208286326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: and it's more having to mark it full stop, really < 1208286390 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://xkcd.com/329/ < 1208286399 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whaddya mean < 1208286419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: look at my cons code < 1208286427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :replace $ with any symbol - its still too much < 1208286449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will need some good thinking to work out how to cut them down though < 1208286492 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did you mean by that apl thing < 1208286506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: like, instead of passing around lists when you want to pass like 5 arguments < 1208286513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :find out a way to actually have 5(etc)-argument functions < 1208286522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while keeping in with the elegant apl/oklotalk hybrid semantics < 1208286558 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what exactly do you mean? < 1208286562 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently, you would do < 1208286564 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1208286568 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :func Arg Arg Arg Arg Arg < 1208286575 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oklopol < 1208286589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes, but it would be passed as [arg arg arg arg arg ] or something < 1208286589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1208286598 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1208286600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, funcs are only unary or dyadic < 1208286601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1208286604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i'm saying is that's kludgey < 1208286609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet you can do it without implicit []s < 1208286613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :REALLY support them < 1208286646 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not kludgey, i disagree :) < 1208286657 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, going to the shop! < 1208286928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: :( < 1208286933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it iiiis kludgey < 1208287069 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1208287094 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@spark.turku.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1208287108 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i don't see the point in not making it a list... only possibility for what i can imagine *actually supporting n-adic functions* might mean is having to match all args separately, which would only complicate stuff. < 1208287113 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was an obscure sentence, but anyway < 1208287115 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see the point < 1208287133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: but :( < 1208287181 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1208287190 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well tell me the advantages :) < 1208287199 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklotalk doesn't aim for conceptual perfection. < 1208287505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well, implicit [] is just weird < 1208287510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if you want to pass an array as the last param? < 1208287614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: = and -> are the only special cases rigt < 1208287625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what is a ->node called? < 1208287627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := is an assignmentnode < 1208287629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about -> < 1208287702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : There are probably some languages where the empty program is a cat. Concatenative languages where the program is a function to turn input into output. < 1208287706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes -- golfscript < 1208287788 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lazy k! < 1208287866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!dog god! < 1208287868 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1208287872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!daemon dog bf ++++++++++[---------->,----------[>,----------]<[++++++++++.<]++++++++++.] < 1208287874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!dog god! < 1208288057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!undaemon dog < 1208288060 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Process 1 killed. < 1208288060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!daemon dup bf ++++[->++++++++<]>>+[->,----------[>,----------]<[++++++++++<]>[.>]<[<]<.>>[.>]++++++++++.[<]+] < 1208288071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!dup !dup < 1208288082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: EgoBrokent < 1208288105 0 :oklofok!n=nnscript@spark.turku.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1208288118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: foklo-ok < 1208288133 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1208288167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ps < 1208288169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!ps d < 1208288170 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 ehird: ps < 1208288173 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 ehird: daemon dup bf < 1208288174 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 ehird: ps < 1208288179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!dup lulz < 1208288183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!undaemon dup < 1208288187 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Process 1 killed. < 1208288209 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1208288444 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@spark.turku.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1208288476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: oko < 1208288760 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooko < 1208288769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1208288773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1208288775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bb < 1208288791 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: [] is also list < 1208288813 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokoko < 1208288825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: okokokoko.. < 1208289033 0 :oklofok!n=nnscript@oklopol.yok.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1208289051 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: [] is also list < 1208289054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1208289055 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokoko < 1208289055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but oko. < 1208289057 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you can up into singleton with ^ < 1208289059 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case those didn't come < 1208289061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokoko < 1208289137 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :func [Arg Arg Arg] == func Arg Arg Arg < 1208289155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1208289157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugly < 1208289161 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1208289161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah < 1208289165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is a ->node called < 1208289168 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in two meanings < 1208289185 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"oh no" as in "who cares", and "oh no", as in "oh dear god you're wrong" < 1208289199 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1208289206 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmhmm < 1208289212 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i fail to remember < 1208289230 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :match node, i'd say < 1208289232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1208289243 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that ugly? < 1208289264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thing,list,1app,2app,match,assign,atom,var(subclass of atom),int,strnig < 1208289268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's my ast < 1208289284 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are what i have, yeah < 1208289287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: is ($-> a b) a match node < 1208289290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just (-> a b) < 1208289298 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point < 1208289302 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only latter < 1208289357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: same with =? < 1208289365 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1208289384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: what is (= a) < 1208289390 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :error < 1208289391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it an unary application of = to a < 1208289393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or an error < 1208289393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1208289424 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :No route to host < 1208289431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: what about (-> a) < 1208289446 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's okay, i think. < 1208289452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: what does it mean < 1208289460 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... < 1208289502 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :match on a, just return what would've been returned if it weren't for the match < 1208289511 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my implementation fails on that. < 1208289519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: returns [] < 1208289520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you app it < 1208289521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1208289529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: are you sure it shoultn't be (-> a f) < 1208289530 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, have no idea why, but lessee < 1208289531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even an error < 1208289557 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no.. not an error < 1208289574 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-7-6.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1208289581 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should be able to do stuff like (= _ [4 5]) (-> [a b]) (+ a b) < 1208289623 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1208289625 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of not < 1208289635 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmhmm < 1208289639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: i think (-> a) should be an error < 1208289651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its either redundant (and only 2 chars shorter than its replacement) OR useless < 1208289663 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1208289664 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1208289680 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was just for assignment, (-> [$set tail]) etc < 1208289711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: yeah, that's kinda sucky < 1208289716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly you'll want to return tail or similar < 1208289716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s. < 1208289719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1208289733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: my parser uses a neat trick < 1208289738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can .pop() because it reverses the input < 1208289770 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat, neat < 1208289781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: did i mention my implementation uses unicode < 1208289788 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmhmm, i think [] is a good thing to return, but i cannot quite see why my implementation does it < 1208289828 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1208289840 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is one obscure way to make it return [] xD < 1208289855 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, try doing operations on the list < 1208289913 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not an Lst, it's a python list :) < 1208289946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: haha < 1208289963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: my interp will have script capabilit < 1208289966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe even a COMPILER < 1208289967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :into python < 1208289971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes with continuations < 1208290016 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm gonna make a compiler later, would you recommend java or python bytecode? :) < 1208290020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: is '2a' a valid atom < 1208290025 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1208290036 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't start with a number < 1208290044 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but oklotalk-- has very retarded parsing rules < 1208290045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: :((( that sucks < 1208290048 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1208290051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should parse as a string < 1208290056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then if everything's a digit make it an int < 1208290057 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...as a string? < 1208290058 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1208290069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: schemes do that < 1208290075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1+ is a valid id in a lot of them < 1208290080 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc it is < 1208290142 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, i don't care much about that before you can extend syntax < 1208290161 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i've come up with quite a nice way to do parsing for actual oklotalk < 1208290176 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there will be a separate string type for strings with structure < 1208290181 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, list type ofc < 1208290265 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will prolly integrate state lists, structured lists and pattern lists into just primitive lists later < 1208290271 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but needs a lot of conceptual refinement < 1208290274 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything, really < 1208290421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: oko < 1208290549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: oops, atoms are special cases of vars < 1208290551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the other way around < 1208290560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need a more generic name.. < 1208290561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NameNode < 1208290612 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1208290613 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1208290631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: what breaks a node? < 1208290638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a2 'a2' or a,2 < 1208290651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just whitespace,(,),{,},[,],",$? < 1208290652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or.. < 1208290658 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1208290659 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter < 1208290664 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm < 1208290669 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you start a name < 1208290706 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it continues until one of the ending parens of whitespace < 1208290724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: does ( break it < 1208290727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(-> a(b c)) < 1208290729 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1208290731 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's okay < 1208290731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1208290732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's < 1208290732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a(b < 1208290733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sucks < 1208290735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally < 1208290746 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1208290753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: will you kill me if i break that < 1208290764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, what about " < 1208290767 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't consider it relevant. < 1208290767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats a closer AND an ender < 1208290768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a"b < 1208290777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what about $ < 1208290799 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i already said what the rules are :) < 1208290803 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a"b is okay < 1208290822 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is trivial stuff, who cares, is my opinion < 1208290830 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1208290846 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will be made sane once i actually *make a syntax* < 1208290862 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1208290867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, oklofok: whitespace,),},] < 1208290869 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a clearer answer: yes, you can chan that < 1208290873 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*change < 1208290922 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the parser was whipped up in less than 10 minutes, before which i didn't have any idea how it should look. < 1208290930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: 2a is 2,a right < 1208290934 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1208290938 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that i'm not gonna change < 1208290956 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but indeed, i guess making opening brackets break tokens is a must < 1208291094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: is \n an escape sequence < 1208291095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or: should it be < 1208291110 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is, and should be < 1208291130 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\t is not < 1208291136 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and shouldn't be, atm < 1208291154 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i despise the tab character < 1208291183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: why? < 1208291186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think about it this way < 1208291191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tab has a semantic meaning for code < 1208291192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means: < 1208291195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'we are indenting now, ok' < 1208291197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now < 1208291198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is < 1208291205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that editors used to interpret that as '+N spaces' < 1208291210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of semantically < 1208291217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and people tried to use tabs for alignment < 1208291227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so now everyone uses soft spaces, and people can't decide how they want to look at code < 1208291232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everything is less semantic < 1208291235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and quite a few bytes are wasted. < 1208291241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in summary: < 1208291251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tabs rock, spaces suck. but the real world means we must use spaces < 1208291289 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i wasn't thinking about code, i'm more an ast level guy < 1208291297 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tabs are nice for that yeah < 1208291304 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, i have other issues with them < 1208291342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: like. < 1208291407 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's not get into that < 1208291410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1208291420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: did tabs abuse you when you were young?!111212 < 1208291424 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1208291433 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have issues with a lot of things < 1208291461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: so is "\r" literally a backslash then an r < 1208291468 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1208291472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an error? < 1208291473 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a syntax error < 1208291498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: just need to parse assignment and voila < 1208291500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm done with the parser < 1208291501 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either have characters you need in source code or use the chr function for now. < 1208291503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i haev to er, test it < 1208291515 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well good for you < 1208291539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: :D < 1208291543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :continuations, compilation.. < 1208291546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AWESOMETALK < 1208291548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- < 1208291550 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1208291575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesometalk without the -- will be THE BEST ENTERPRISE OKLOTALK < 1208291590 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1208291611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: it will cost $32.99 < 1208291616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and include a MEGA IDE < 1208291623 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps we can spend our lives making better and better oklotalk interps and compilers topping each other until i die of age.. < 1208291662 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either that. < 1208291667 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or we could buy cotton candy. < 1208291671 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1208291673 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE CHOICE IS YOURS < 1208291676 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you make a decent point < 1208291693 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's quite a conundrum. < 1208291699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : perhaps we can spend our lives making better and better oklotalk interps and compilers topping each other until i die of age.. < 1208291708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and trying to get people to actually use it < 1208291721 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... well then count me out :P < 1208291751 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't care whether people use my stuff really < 1208291752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: imagine when google releases its first oklotalk application < 1208291771 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the reason why i don't aim for perfection in the parsing rules etc. < 1208291783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: OH NO < 1208291786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not made lists yet < 1208291787 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1208291792 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1208291807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not hard < 1208291808 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1208291810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can just rip off the Thing code < 1208291828 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said something about it being lame that i use the python stack < 1208291834 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember the reason now < 1208291840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1208291857 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was just that you need to do oklotalk calls in pattern matching, and i hadn't taken that into account < 1208291866 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'd have had to change the code a bit < 1208291882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: ah < 1208291883 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i just started over, and the randomizer in my head didn't do it stack-based again < 1208291903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> print parse('[a b c]')[0] < 1208291903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[a b c] < 1208291909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: an oklotalk parser in 1-3 man hours < 1208291913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of not much work < 1208291914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1208291916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklotalk-- < 1208291935 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, i'm pretty sure i could reimplement all of oklotalk much better now that i know the scoping/evaluation/parsing rules, so beware, i'll remake it if you finish yours, and it will own it. < 1208291938 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1208291943 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some bad use of "it" < 1208291956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: oh sure ;p < 1208291962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my oklotalk-- will support CALLING INTO PYTHON < 1208291972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though if you have this: < 1208291973 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklotalk-- parsing is about 10 man-minutes of work, i have no idea about oklotalk, as its syntax isn't even ready yet < 1208291986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: ah but i have very specific errors < 1208291989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1208291992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklotalk-- calls python --> python calls oklotalk-- -> oklotalk-- code < 1208292002 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1208292005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rightmost oklotalk-- code's continuations will only be up to the python one < 1208292014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since obviously you can't capture the python and upwards continuation < 1208292014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT < 1208292021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's never ever gonna happen now is it :p < 1208292060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: damn, this parser works FIRST TIME < 1208292069 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine did too < 1208292071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i literally implemented 50% of it just now, without reloading < 1208292076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is all working, with nice error messages < 1208292077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crazy < 1208292084 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just wrote it, and assumed it worked :) < 1208292093 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1208292096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine isn't hideously broken though < 1208292096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::)) < 1208292100 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is mine? < 1208292103 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't think so < 1208292105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in error cases < 1208292106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1208292113 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1208292115 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how exactly? < 1208292130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: it returns weird stuff < 1208292131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like lists < 1208292138 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :show example < 1208292142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine always raisea n exception that has reasonable text < 1208292158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: also, yours is broken < 1208292163 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :show example < 1208292163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cant pass a string as an argument < 1208292166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it tries to parse as an int < 1208292210 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :show example < 1208292216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: jesus christ < 1208292232 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have no idea what you mean < 1208292235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1208292237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look in logs < 1208292238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we found it < 1208292252 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean (lol "asdasdads") < 1208292253 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1208292273 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have no idea what you mean < 1208292338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: look in logs < 1208292352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1208292353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parser done < 1208292358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i guess i should do types < 1208292407 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i won't, i'll just assume you're lying < 1208292409 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1208292426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: ass < 1208292453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : :: (error "DIE DIE DIE") 16:40:55 < 1208292453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : An error: invalid literal for int() with base 10: 'DIE DIE DIE' < 1208292461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : :: (+ "DIE DIE DIE" "oklotalk") 16:41:18 < 1208292461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : An error: invalid literal for int() with base 10: 'oklotalk' < 1208292512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :class Oko(object): < 1208292515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cutest code i've written all day < 1208292533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okoer should be the interpreter class < 1208292535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's silly < 1208292536 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1208292537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okit < 1208292538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1208292540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okoist < 1208292542 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first one is correct < 1208292547 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :second, doesn't err < 1208292570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: well its from logs < 1208292690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: should objects (okos) belong to okoists (interpreters) < 1208292692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or independent < 1208292780 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1208292780 0 :Deformative!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1208292780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1208292780 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1208292780 0 :Quendus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1208292780 0 :Deformati!n=joe@c-68-61-240-49.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1208292904 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1208292922 0 :Quendus!n=Quendion@145.175.adsl.brightview.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1208293003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know the mail or something of ais < 1208293005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in an EXTREMELY silly way < 1208293007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#ifdef _POSIX_SOURCE \n #include \n #else \n #include \n #endif < 1208293009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well for some reason it does not define _POSIX_SOURCE on freebsd........ < 1208293157 0 :RodgerTheGreat!n=Rodger@wads-5-233-27.resnet.mtu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1208293261 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1208293538 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: strings, indeed, don't have much functionality in oklotalk--, mainly because i'm very lazy when it comes to the trivial stuff < 1208293547 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there is no parse error there < 1208293562 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : anyone know the mail or something of ais < 1208293571 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a matter of fact yes < 1208293579 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@71.237.179.105 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208293592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah so I can send a bug report < 1208293596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks could you /msg it? < 1208293678 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if that's where he wants bug reports though < 1208293713 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just spit it out, man! < 1208293948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: post to usenet < 1208293950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alt.lang.intercal < 1208293959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sent him a mail < 1208293969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/sigh < 1208293976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and I don't have any read/write news account < 1208293980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can't post it there < 1208293986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google offers them for free. < 1208297691 0 :Iskr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1208297905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, WTF does the I of PERL fingerprint do < 1208297914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I looked at CCBI's code and it make no sense < 1208298552 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1208299641 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1208300014 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1208300979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello chaps < 1208300992 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1208301082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: oh NO < 1208301083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parser BUG < 1208301112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix'd < 1208301259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: soo < 1208301266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the general structure of your oklotalk-- interp? < 1208301271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it have multiple interps at one time? < 1208301719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: ping < 1208302251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1208302829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: ping < 1208303052 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pong < 1208303075 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whaddyamean < 1208303079 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiple interps at one time? < 1208303082 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going to sleep btw < 1208303085 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so be fast < 1208303118 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to sleep, perchance to dream < 1208303136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1208303136 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you can't purchase my dreams < 1208303143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wish i could be ast < 1208303145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fast < 1208303150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but busy:((( < 1208303159 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"multiple interps at one time"? < 1208303213 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1208303221 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to answer what i think that sentence means... < 1208303237 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interpreter doesn't have interpreters at all, it only *is* one < 1208303243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: ok < 1208303245 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no, it doesn't have multiple interps at one time < 1208303250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i cant have 2 'contexts' < 1208303254 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1208303262 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :r=oklotalk.Runner() < 1208303269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1208303271 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :r.run(oklotalk_code) < 1208303272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1208303274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1208303277 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :returns result, stores context < 1208303283 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use that from the pyc of c < 1208303286 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ofc < 1208303291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: yeah < 1208303293 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that you didn't know that < 1208303298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to use python without the src though :)) < 1208303305 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed. < 1208303305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not really oriented to that < 1208303319 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i told you about Runner, but quite briefly < 1208303333 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whhell < 1208303336 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just dir the modules < 1208303358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1208303360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even so < 1208303381 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklotalk.run will run contextless pieces of code < 1208303395 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case you're really in a hurry! < 1208303409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1208303418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: i bet £999 that you won't actually go to sleep < 1208303422 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, night-o < 1208303423 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1208303429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that you'll stay here < 1208303430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1208303431 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES I WILL < 1208303438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suuure < 1208303456 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a naked chick next to me < 1208303464 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still want to bet? < 1208303470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: ok, good point < 1208303473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i retract my bet < 1208303474 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1208303489 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whhhell, wouldn't be the first time i choose oklotalk over a chick < 1208303495 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but let's hope i succeed < 1208303497 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see ya < 1208303498 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1208303502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: WHAT ABOUT SCOPING < 1208303508 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1208303508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION watches oklofok reappear
< 1208303518 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're fucking evil. < 1208303522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally < 1208303529 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know all about scoping, man < 1208303538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1208303544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about dynamic container singletons < 1208303545 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :static, dynamic look-up if static finds nothing. < 1208303550 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...whut? :D < 1208303554 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION still has doubts about the sleeping part
< 1208303560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, better make up a meaning < 1208303561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1208303562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dynamic < 1208303563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :container < 1208303564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :singletons < 1208303570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are containers < 1208303572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that contain a dynamic variable < 1208303575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have set/get operations < 1208303582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a -dynamically scoped- variable that is < 1208303592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does this interact with the stack? < 1208303608 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph < 1208303620 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1208303621 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1208303626 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you be more spesific... < 1208303635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: its a structure < 1208303638 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1208303640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but instead of contianing structure-local lexicals < 1208303646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it contains a dynamic variable reference < 1208303654 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that, exactly, in oklotalk--? < 1208303657 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you code it? < 1208303671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: maybe, dunno how to do the exact forcing < 1208303702 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scoping is only done for variables < 1208303713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: yes < 1208303715 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure what you mean here, so hard to say... < 1208303717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but its a variable INSIDE a structure < 1208303719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i admit it < 1208303723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just trying to keep you here < 1208303725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me £999 < 1208303725 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inside it... < 1208303725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1208303728 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like {a} < 1208303729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :srsly, go < 1208303729 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1208303730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1208303732 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asdasdf < 1208303734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: but < 1208303735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1208303736 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, okay... < 1208303738 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1208303740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{(-> a ...)} < 1208303745 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yarr < 1208303745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a is dynamically scoped < 1208303747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ... is {...} < 1208303752 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm < 1208303757 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a isn't dynamically scoped < 1208303763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1208303764 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's bound by the pattern match < 1208303765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you force it to be < 1208303770 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? < 1208303774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by using the other expressions < 1208303775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1208303787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{magic setting stuff, (-> z {...})) < 1208303790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and instead of z in the object < 1208303792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use magic getting stuff < 1208303805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the object 'contains' a dynamically scoped varialbe < 1208303819 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think you can do that. < 1208303825 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'll really go now :D < 1208303827 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see ya -> < 1208303849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1208303852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1208303910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: you are still here. < 1208304226 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahah! < 1208304228 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gato works. < 1208304236 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I can write the Andrei Machine 9000! < 1208304250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: zgoshmgz < 1208304349 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am full of hope. < 1208304361 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really don't want to write it in Python. < 1208304373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: whuts gato < 1208304406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gato.sourceforge.net/http://gato.sourceforge.net/? < 1208304409 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a program to write algorithms on graphs. < 1208304415 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that one. < 1208304419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: im sorry but that code is python < 1208304421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just embed it < 1208304425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and add their own functions < 1208304445 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1208304457 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what I mean is, I don't want to build everything < 1208304477 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am terrible at coding, so I really don't want to write the whole graph gestion myself < 1208304507 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus, all my interpreters have some way of seeing what happens to the machine, and I don't want to make an exception. < 1208304559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: Cool. < 1208304857 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"rebloodybooting! They said I wouldn't have to do this on linux!" < 1208304867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1208305001 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1208305100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :timotiis: sorry < 1208305125 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1208306386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/dUgDuS45.html < 1208306393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like ccbi is broken Deewiant ^ < 1208307003 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1208307194 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1208307718 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1208307920 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1208308625 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Fark: < 1208308626 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There are actually people named null, and yes, I've actually seen this cause problems in production database code. 'Null' was the last name where I saw it however." < 1208309191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1208309230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :public class Closure { public Closure(Object... vars); public U apply(T arg); } < 1208309235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. < 1208309265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :new Closure(a, b, c) { public Integer apply(Integer n) { return n + (Integer)this.vars[0]; } } < 1208309271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this.vars={a,b,c} < 1208309281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe nice if you are compiling a language to jvm < 1208310914 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah! ehird: i was not there! < 1208310925 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*here < 1208310929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: heh < 1208311033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: but ... yeah < 1208311042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's also why you shouldnt compile oklotalk-- to the jvm, btw < 1208311045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't like closures < 1208311210 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would probably make the compilation at a bit lower level < 1208311229 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but python bytecode might be nicer < 1208311247 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, as i don't really like java, i don't really wanna use it's bytecode < 1208311248 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1208311255 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, /me goes back < 1208311264 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before you start asking again :-) < 1208311266 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1208312825 0 :Quendus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1208312862 0 :Quendus!n=Quendion@145.175.adsl.brightview.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1208313010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quendus < 1208313012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't seen that name < 1208313013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1208318807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1208319902 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Security Manager is vetoing my using Firebug in Fx3.. < 1208319926 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> 2+2 < 1208319926 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :commandLine.evaluate FAILS: [Exception... "Security Manager vetoed action" nsresult: "0x80570027 (NS_ERROR_XPC_SECURITY_MANAGER_VETO)" location: "JS frame :: chrome://firebug/content/commandLine.js :: :: line 100" data: no] < 1208319995 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1208319999 0 :fizzie!n=fis@sesefras.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1208320736 0 :adu!n=andrew@pool-71-178-14-80.washdc.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1208322034 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol at http://youtube.com/watch?v=g3KufmUlF5M < 1208322039 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm commented SJGster) < 1208324325 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip24-255-58-177.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1208324330 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1208324376 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi calamari < 1208324381 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://youtube.com/watch?v=g3KufmUlF5M == fail < 1208324677 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1208326858 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1208327921 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: cheers, I'll take a look tonight < 1208328344 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.cust.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1208328462 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1208330041 0 :GregorR-L!n=gregor@71.237.179.105 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208330043 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cafepress.com/bizarregeek.255291006 < 1208330095 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For those who like CAs :P ) < 1208331766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, not that mine works perfectly either so far < 1208331788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it fails when using garbage collector for unknown reason < 1208332799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1208332800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1208333435 0 :adu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bye" < 1208334852 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1208334960 0 :Iskr!n=i@host19-56-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1208336565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, actually the issue seems to depend on how you interpret the PERL fingerprint docs... hm... < 1208336609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"-e print 'A',eval(%s)" or "-e print 'A';eval(%s)" < 1208336614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where %s is the popped string < 1208341002 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1208341248 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokoko < 1208341251 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1208344010 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1208345289 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: okay, so we want the Perl program to be able to use the std streams as normal, but how do we get the eval result out then? < 1208345316 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm confused as to how that would be possible < 1208345555 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would just "$x = eval(%s); print 'A',$x" work? can the %s mess with a variable called $x in some way? (I'm unaware of the limitations of eval in Perl) < 1208346203 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1208347017 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hmm, even that wouldn't work, since %s might print A and $x might contain A < 1208347337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1208347357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I'm no perl expert either < 1208347360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :far from < 1208347404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1208347407 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say the simplest solution here is to say that accessing stdout is undefined < 1208347417 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatively make it stderr for more convenience < 1208347669 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1208349373 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-034-014.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1208350772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I capture both stdout and stderr < 1208350774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't hard < 1208350828 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, but how do you get the eval result < 1208350902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, just int fds[2]; pipe(fds); pid = fork() if (pid == 0) { /* in child */ dup2(fds[1], 1); dup2(fds[1], 2); .... execvp("perl", arguments); } else { ... read(fds[0], ...) ... } < 1208350914 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, capturing stderr is trivial < 1208350915 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know this < 1208350916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well a good question < 1208350936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the specs are unclear on what to exactly capture I think? < 1208350941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what exactly to* < 1208350944 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I think it's clear < 1208350948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1208350953 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the value of the expression evaled < 1208350961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1208350972 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. eval 2+2 and get 4. < 1208350974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about loading libperl.so, I think you can do something like tht < 1208350976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that* < 1208351020 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly... but it shouldn't be necessary < 1208351031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1208351034 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on what the docs say, as well < 1208351045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway then S would get a lot more complex < 1208351049 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It pushes a 1 on the stack otherwise, indicating that the Perl language will be shelled when needed. < 1208351051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say "isn't loaded yet" < 1208351065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true < 1208351080 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that speaks explicitly of shelling, so libperl.so is a no-go ;-) < 1208351098 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't read the whole discussion, but based on what I've seen: no-one says you need to limit yourself to STDOUT and STDERR, why not just open a pipe for file descriptor 3, and in Perl do open FD3, ">&3"; print FD3 eval(...); < 1208351111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, now I really understand why ppl don't use read() but use fread() instead < 1208351127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it a lot easier to work with < 1208351154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, interesting < 1208351168 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: isn't it possible for the perl code to always be using FD3 itself, though < 1208351186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that would print both the result of the eval as well as any print statements inside the eval? < 1208351189 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very likely, but possible? < 1208351236 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hmm, I wonder if that's possible on windows < 1208351252 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you'd get stdout, stderr and that eval result via three different pipes. But sure, the Perl code could use file descriptor 3 for something. < 1208351266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1208351433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I wonder why I get a segfault with boehm-gc if I use execlp after fork(), execvp works < 1208351449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes no sense to me < 1208351699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even more interesting is using valgrind (GC disabled then) < 1208351716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using --trace-children=yes cause things to fail if I use execvp, but they work with execlp < 1208351722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only under valgrind that is < 1208351856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, btw, does windows have vfork()? < 1208351863 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows doesn't have fork < 1208351864 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of any kind < 1208351888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how do you start another process without replacing the current one < 1208351902 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CreateProcessA/CreateProcessW < 1208351907 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't ask me about the details < 1208351915 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just use what Tango provides < 1208351947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can see you need to fork() then { in child: dup2 and exec } { in parent: waitpid and read } < 1208351954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1208351962 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows doesn't use the fork/exec model < 1208351970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1208351993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm actually I spend most code at doing read and trying to handle all the error conditions/results from it < 1208352005 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, same here < 1208352006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie, "do we need to realloc and read some more or are we done yet" < 1208352009 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just running the program is 2 lines :-P < 1208352024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well a bit more for building arguments and such here < 1208352036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the read code is really a mess < 1208352133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think doing read into same buffer and keeping extending it may be the wrong way, read and then append the buffer to another buffer would be way easier, and, due to \0 termination, faster < 1208352137 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it'd be fair to just disallow stderr for PERL < 1208352146 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no way to write to stderr in Befunge otherwise either < 1208352149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? well capturing it isn't an issue < 1208352158 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1208352163 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then you can reserve it for the eval result < 1208352171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I use a perror() after forking < 1208352172 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. print stderr eval(%s) < 1208352188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case of exec fails < 1208352202 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you can pass the perl script's stdout through to the interpreter's stdout < 1208352211 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whilst capturing the stderr and reading the eval result from it < 1208352232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm and what about print stderr eval(print stdout "foo")? < 1208352238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1208352241 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2008-04-16 15:23:21 ( Deewiant) and then you can pass the perl script's stdout through to the interpreter's stdout < 1208352249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, not sure if that is a good thing or not < 1208352259 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's the least error prone option < 1208352266 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ simple to implement :-P < 1208352343 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it allows the PERL script to do output if it so wishes < 1208352358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, btw where do you close the fd in eval in perl.d < 1208352366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is D handling that for you? < 1208352372 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tango does it < 1208352386 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in p.execute(); I would guess < 1208352410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read = p.stdout.input.read(buf); < 1208352412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1208352417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stdout.input? < 1208352433 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the input stream of the process's stdout < 1208352452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, stdout is just output, it isn't bi-directional < 1208352470 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if another program is writing to it what are you going to do < 1208352474 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are going to read from it, no? < 1208352475 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's input < 1208352488 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :similarly stdin is an output stream < 1208352489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... yeah < 1208352499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but then is stdout.output invalid? < 1208352508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when done on another process < 1208352512 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I think so < 1208352542 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could also in Perl do something like: open(REALERR, ">&STDERR); open(STDERR, ">&STDOUT); print REALERR eval(...); if you wanted to have all the eval'd piece outputs (both stdout and stderr) mixed in the stdout of the executed process, leaving the real stderr for the eval result. Of course the eval'd code could still get to the real stderr if it really wanted to. < 1208352550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what is the print A bit about really btw < 1208352565 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it took me a while to figure out, too ;-) < 1208352580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well you do it, I don't see why thoug < 1208352581 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the idea being that if %s prints to stdout, we take only the eval result. < 1208352581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though < 1208352586 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think. < 1208352589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I see < 1208352599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1208352600 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course that doesn't work if the eval result contains A so it's crap. :-P < 1208352626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I know about 0 perl, I do know hello world in perl and I do know PCRE (by libpcre) < 1208352629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's about it < 1208352633 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hm, that might be a good idea actually. < 1208352659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so forgive me if I'm ignorant, but the quotes seem mismatched? < 1208352672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :open(REALERR, ">&STDERR); <-- as in that < 1208352684 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there's two "s missing. I was about to metion it, but then didn't bother. Should be ">&STDERR". < 1208352690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1208352711 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: and then just tell the eval'd code not to mess with a stream called REALERR? Or is there another way it can subvert the whole thing? < 1208352748 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the eval'd code could use open(WHATEVER, ">&2"); and use WHATEVER to print to the real stderr file descriptor. < 1208352777 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn. There's no way to hide the real stderr completely? < 1208352800 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there is, except of course closing it, but that kind-of defeats the purpose. < 1208352844 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright. Hmh. < 1208352898 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl might have some sandbox-y functions (probably as CPAN modules) for limiting the things the eval'd code can do. And it might be possible to hook into Perl's "open" call behaviour somehow, but that would mean even more Perl-guts. < 1208352941 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh. < 1208353019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1208353025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :killall perl? ;) < 1208353082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, would calling it say, CFUNGE_REALERR work < 1208353097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I could just say "your own fault, cfunge is my namespace" < 1208353099 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: unless the code uses something called CFUNGE_REALERR. < 1208353106 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: or opens ">&2". < 1208353133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :point is, is _ valid or not < 1208353144 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1208353157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well considering it's perl, it is bound to have some special meaning < 1208353158 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, call it CFUNGEISMYNAMESPACEYOUDORKREALERR < 1208353158 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1208353168 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a lot like C lexically. < 1208353196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well iirc it does have packages, ie use foo; not #include < 1208353208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought they provided kind of C++ namespaces < 1208353214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may totally wrong < 1208353238 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, not 'the same as C', just 'like C'. < 1208353252 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually you could open(my $realerr, ">&STDERR); open(...); eval(...); which I _think_ would mean that the eval'd code wouldn't be able to access the filehandle directly, since there's no symbol table entry for it, just the reference in $realerr. (Can't remember details about lexically scoped "my" vars and eval, but at least with some minor changes.) < 1208353271 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still won't help with the open(FOO, ">&2"); problem. < 1208353296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1208353300 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(With open my $realerr you'd then do print $realerr eval(...);) < 1208353334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait a second, is $ same as in bash or something else? < 1208353350 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ is just the prefix for a scalar variable. < 1208353364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm same as in bash more or less then < 1208353376 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: perl -e 'my $x = 2; print eval($x+$x);' prints 4, at least. < 1208353403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that evaluated lexically like a pre-processor first? < 1208353429 0 :atsampson!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1208353434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in bash you would need to escape the \$x in an eval statement < 1208353448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of order of expanding < 1208353481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(however I will not write a perl escaper in C or something like that) < 1208353640 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if nothing else works, you can always use print $realerr eval {$realerr = undef; %s}; but that's butt-ugly. I'm pretty sure there is a better way for making a variable that doesn't leak into eval; lexically scoped vars evidently do. < 1208353714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there probably is indeed, it's perl after all < 1208353721 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually more like eval { local $realerr = undef; %s } to avoid gobbling the real $realerr, but then it can't be a "my" variable. < 1208353739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is probably something like z having a special meaning in a special context *runs* < 1208353749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember, perl DOES have a entry on the esolang wiki < 1208353798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think someone said that instead of "foo" you could do q/foo/ in perl. < 1208353802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1208353808 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do that in D 2.0 as well. :-) < 1208353825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, s/)/(/ < 1208353845 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1208353855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that was sed not perl! < 1208353877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no problems using sed or awk < 1208353879 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also perl. < 1208353889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yeah I thought so < 1208353891 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, if you're really doing string-substitution in the Perl code itself, you don't need eval, and this should work: my $code = sub { %s }; open my $realerr, ">&STDERR"; open STDERR, ">&STDOUT"; print $realerr $code->(); < 1208353905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, eh? < 1208353916 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: unfortunately the specs say that it should be an eval(). :-) < 1208353917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"E ('Eval') pops a 0gnirts string and performs a Perl eval() on it, possibly (or not) shelling Perl as indicated by S above. The result of the call is pushed as a 0gnirts string back onto the stack." < 1208353927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, from http://catseye.tc/projects/funge98/library/PERL.html < 1208353991 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Well, my $code = sub { return eval('%s'); } ... then. < 1208354024 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, isn't eval(%s) equivalent to %s always? < 1208354050 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where %s isn't wrapped in "" or '' or whatever of course < 1208354053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm... couldn't you pass a string to eval, read from say stdin? < 1208354090 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but I'm just pondering. < 1208354106 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think eval(%s) really does much, since the %s is evaluated normally, and the result is then passed to the 'eval' function. < 1208354126 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eval(my $x = 1; print $x) versus my $x = 1; print $x < 1208354153 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1208354155 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Alternatively, if given a block of code - that is, the code is known at compile time - eval traps run-time exceptions." < 1208354168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that mean Deewiant ? < 1208354174 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually "eval(my $x = 1; print $x)" shouldn't be syntactically right at all. < 1208354176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :divide by zero or? < 1208354178 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1208354183 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that probably < 1208354190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it shouldn't? < 1208354191 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: only expressions? < 1208354195 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eval takes either a string or a block of code and evaluates it. < 1208354205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1208354210 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl -e 'eval(my $x = 1; print $x);' gives syntax error at -e line 1, near "1;" < 1208354228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, perl -e 'eval(print "bar");' works though, hm < 1208354232 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright < 1208354247 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's an expression. you can pass the result of printf to a function in C just fine as well. < 1208354254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1208354259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1208354290 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since the spec speaks of strings, I think it means one should do something like eval('%s'); but that would need escaping the 's in the string. < 1208354296 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or reading it from stdin or some-such.) < 1208354311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1208354314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl -e 'print eval(4 + 5)' < 1208354322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is not same as perl -e '4 + 5' < 1208354333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and with multistatement just adding a print doesn't work < 1208354383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said something about code block? < 1208354434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then there is the question of non-matching ( and ) in the input hm... < 1208354441 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl -e 'print eval("my $x = 1;")' prints nothing < 1208354449 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't error out either < 1208354472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"print eval(%s)", "10); something here(blah" < 1208354478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay perl injection? < 1208354482 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl -e 'print eval("my \$x = 1;")' however prints "1". < 1208354509 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, the shell goes inside "" inside '' < 1208354526 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid bash, just do what I mean < 1208354528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, err? bash doesn't at least < 1208354537 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well evidently it does < 1208354539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl -e 'print eval("my \$x = 1;")' works here < 1208354545 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's actually the Perl that does mess the $x inside a ""-string. < 1208354547 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or no, is that perl mucking it up < 1208354554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, indeed it is perl < 1208354555 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ayeh < 1208354559 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1208354574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so given the specs, how would you do it? < 1208354589 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think sub { return eval('%s'); } is the best idea so far < 1208354602 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need to do escaping in %s though < 1208354606 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is tricky < 1208354611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah something I don't want to mess with < 1208354625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering the syntax of perl probably could escape escaping < 1208354628 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, instead, return eval(%s); < 1208354638 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and statements are disallowed thus. < 1208354648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm doesn't that break the specs? < 1208354657 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But eval(%s) makes really no sense. The '%s' part is evaluated before even passing the result to 'eval'. < 1208354657 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? < 1208354677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm ok < 1208354687 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the specs are confused or PERL is practically impossible to implement without writing the interpreter in perl. < 1208354706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, could you read the stuff for eval from stdin? < 1208354718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then perl would escape it itself kind of < 1208354733 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you could. Then you'd just use eval($s); after reading into $s. < 1208354742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie, $variable = read(); eval($variable) < 1208354749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know the needed syntax < 1208354763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and how would you read that? < 1208354770 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and if the perl script wants to read stdin? < 1208354777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm true < 1208354785 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you'd probably need to have some sort of length-prefix before the code, so that you can keep the stdin open for further reads. < 1208354798 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aye. < 1208354816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it need to be blocking read < 1208354835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if it get to read before the parent got to write, it would wait < 1208354904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well if you can write the needed perl code to read like that, I could do the C bit < 1208354913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't be able to do the perl bit sadly :/ < 1208354919 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl is trivial to learn < 1208354927 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for short stuff like that I mean < 1208354929 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't want to use a prefix, you could use that file descriptor 3, read the code-to-evaluate and then close it. < 1208354937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, prefix could work < 1208354943 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prefix is fine < 1208354950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess just write(fd, strlen(perlcode))? < 1208354960 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however you choose to implement it < 1208354968 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that'd work the easiest < 1208354970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if you want as a string < 1208354983 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's easier to "read until eof" in one line of Perl than it is to "read at least this many bytes". < 1208354990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie snprintf("%d", strlen...") < 1208355007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm EOF isn't a special char is it < 1208355009 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easier in most languages without scanf. < 1208355015 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EOF isn't a char. < 1208355025 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even with scanf, I guess. < 1208355055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well, input would be a pipe created with pipe() in C in my case < 1208355055 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my $code = ''; open FD3, "<&3"; $code .= $_ while ; close FD3; might do it. < 1208355072 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using just stdin makes that a bit easier. < 1208355076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure how I would send a EOF that way < 1208355083 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my $code = ''; $code .= $_ while <>; < 1208355089 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what < 1208355097 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you send EOF by closing the pipe. < 1208355102 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or file descriptor, or whatever. < 1208355105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1208355117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well a pipe is a set of two connected fd's in this case < 1208355134 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you close the write end, the read end should get an eof. < 1208355137 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you close the input stream. < 1208355392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, then print eval($code) or? < 1208355399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "$code"? < 1208355445 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no difference in perl, just like in bash :-) < 1208355452 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1208355463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, there is a difference in bash < 1208355469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo="bar quux" < 1208355473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo $foo < 1208355475 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, no difference. < 1208355475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo "$foo" < 1208355481 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1208355483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difference is that $foo will expand to two parameters < 1208355489 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1208355490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while "$foo" won't < 1208355501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for echo it doesn't matter < 1208355503 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the string itself is the same, it's just the way it's passed to another program that differs < 1208355508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for say grep on a filename it would < 1208355513 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1208355513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the filename contains spaces < 1208355518 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since eval() is a builtin function, not another program, it makes no difference. < 1208355529 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would assume that it's the same for any builtin function of bash. < 1208355531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, for bash it matters for builtins too < 1208355539 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :example? O_o < 1208355575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo will do the same, but say: foo="echo bar" < 1208355576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1208355580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$foo < 1208355583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "$foo" < 1208355587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be different < 1208355590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first would echo bar < 1208355591 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1208355606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second would likely say "echo bar" not such command or something like that < 1208355636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and say test -f $file and test -f "$file" would differ when $file contains spaces < 1208355653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test is a builtin yes < 1208355693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh and: foo="bar quux"; for i in $foo; do echo "$i"; done < 1208355703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is different from: foo="bar quux"; for i in "$foo"; do echo "$i"; done < 1208355710 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bash is indeed prone to splitting things at spaces; but in Perl I think there's a difference only if $foo doesn't happen to be a string. < 1208355736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well there are exceptions: < 1208355743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo="abc def" < 1208355746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bar=$foo < 1208355753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be the same as: < 1208355755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bar="$foo" < 1208355757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case < 1208355760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however... < 1208355770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo="abc def" is not the same as foo=abc def < 1208355785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter would try to run def with foo=abc in the environment < 1208355795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, enough examples? < 1208355797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1208355873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, would this mean something like: < 1208355885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my $code = ''; $code .= $_ while <>; open(CFUNGE_REALERR, ">&STDERR"); open(STDERR, ">&STDOUT"); print CFUNGE_REALERR eval($code) < 1208355885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1208355939 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, if you don't mind losing the use of STDIN in the Perl code. (And of course you can avoid the CFUNGE_REALERR "problem" with a bit more trickery.) < 1208355986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well how would I then save and restore the stdin? < 1208355998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or actually I could just use fd3 I guess < 1208356006 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just pass the length first. < 1208356014 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then read only bytes to $code. < 1208356029 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but with the length-prefix the reading is more complicated. (Of course with fd3 the writing is a bit more complicated.) < 1208356040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"my $code = ''; $code .= $_ while ; close FD3; open(CFUNGE_REALERR, \">&STDERR\"); open(STDERR, \">&STDOUT\"); print CFUNGE_REALERR eval($code)" < 1208356053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming the \ is due to the whole thing is inside a C string < 1208356063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm being too lazy to remove it this time ;) < 1208356067 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: with fd3 I'm screwed on Windows, so I prefer the length-prefix method. ;-) < 1208356104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1208356106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no open < 1208356112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"my $code = ''; open FD3, \"<&3\"; $code .= $_ while ; close FD3; open(CFUNGE_REALERR, \">&STDERR\"); open(STDERR, \">&STDOUT\"); print CFUNGE_REALERR eval($code)" < 1208356114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1208356162 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it looks correct, assuming the Perl code won't try opening &2, or using CFUNGE_REALERR. < 1208356200 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: wouldn't heredoc be the easiest way of making $code directly? < 1208356204 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just came to mind < 1208356235 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can always pick a heredoc string not contained within the program script < 1208356250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, finding such a string may not be that simple? < 1208356257 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, yes; that's possible. < 1208356291 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: start with "THIS_IS_MY_FOOBAR_HEREDOC_STRING" and append that to itself until the prog no longer contains it or it exceeds the prog's length, whichever comes first. :-P < 1208356315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you need to search over the prog, linear search < 1208356322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a long program that could be an issue < 1208356410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, closing the fd doesn't flush it it seems < 1208356420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least not if it is a file, may be different with pipe < 1208356423 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you need to write it to the file descriptor as well, which takes linear time? < 1208356456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm what about vectored io? oh wait that won't work for a pipe < 1208356491 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think you're right, in-memory fd writing is probably faster overall < 1208356495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway that just means O(n), while searching to see if the program contains a string means at least searching it twice if you hit it < 1208356511 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: which is still O(n), no matter how many times you do it. ;-) < 1208356529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true < 1208356538 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you feel like doing the heredoc thing, it probably makes sense to keep in mind that Perl does variable interpolation in my $code = < returns anything after the '__END__' marker when the script is passed with the -e argument. Otherwise it could've been much like the heredoc thing but without the suitable-string-finding issues. < 1208356950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems it works with FD3 < 1208356951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1208357016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so what will you do then? < 1208357042 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stdin with the length passed first < 1208357139 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A normal person would've just used print eval { %s }; which might not match the letter of the spec, but does match the spirit: takes the string and gives it to the 'eval' function. Of course it's not _exactly_ the same, the code is parsed at a different time and there might be other differences. < 1208357150 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I originally did < 1208357158 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then AnMaster came complaining :-P < 1208357167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, err? you didn't use { < 1208357169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you used ) < 1208357170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1208357170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :( < 1208357178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : auto p = new Process("perl", "-e print 'A',eval(" ~ s ~ ")"); < 1208357185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I didn't complain before about it < 1208357192 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only difference is that one accepts only expressions, I think < 1208357205 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I had used {} you'd still have complained about the same issue ;-) < 1208357233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, if I passed this in stdin then, should it work?: $x = "Hello world"; print $x < 1208357233 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it really isn't the same thing at all: the expression isn't evaluated by "eval", it's evaluated just like the outer code, and then the result is passed to eval. < 1208357287 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, perl -e 'eval(die "foo");' will die, while perl -e 'eval { die "foo" };' won't. < 1208357337 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :File descriptor 3, not stdin, I guess. But yes, it looks like valid Perl code to me, although traditionally there's a newline after the string. < 1208357341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know I pass it on right FD < 1208357348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah 3 was what I did < 1208357353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because other stuff work < 1208357358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say 4+5 < 1208357361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"my $code = ''; open FD3, \"<&3\"; $code .= $_ while ; close FD3; open(CFUNGE_REALERR, \">&STDERR\"); open(STDERR, \">&STDOUT\"); print CFUNGE_REALERR eval($code)" < 1208357369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is escaped for C < 1208357429 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I just figured out an embarrassingly easy way to pass the code to the Perl interpreter. < 1208357437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh? < 1208357453 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just do print eval($ARGV[0]); and append the code to the argument list of your "perl -e" call. < 1208357473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ARGV[0] == "perl" probably? < 1208357480 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, $0 == "perl". < 1208357485 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ARGV[0] is the first "real" argument. < 1208357490 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl Does It Differently(TM). < 1208357492 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first one after the program after -e? < 1208357493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in argument for script? < 1208357517 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl -e 'print $ARGV[0], "\n";' foo prints "foo". < 1208357526 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yays. < 1208357548 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes things somewhat simpler. < 1208357560 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I wonder if there's a maximum limit on the length of an argument. < 1208357605 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the code was already being passed in the '-e' at some point, it's not a new problem. < 1208357622 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. < 1208357641 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course the code itself can't "use" the @ARGV array, but looking at the spec it doesn't seem to say anything what @ARGV should look like. < 1208357701 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, it's then especially easy to write a Perl quine; print $ARGV[0]; will do it, if you start it in that environment. < 1208357797 0 :RedDak!n=dak@79.32.85.23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208357858 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: alright, now your little test proggy prints 'hi 161'. :-P < 1208357883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I don't have the same version around any longer < 1208357885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I extended it < 1208357899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/VFZ2St69.html < 1208357901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what I use now < 1208357932 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright, win. < 1208357944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it works here too < 1208357950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just checking valgrind and such < 1208357967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, want to put you in a thanks to comment, what name should I use? < 1208358024 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, what sort of names have other people used? :p < 1208358052 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...er, that sounds wrong. < 1208358093 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not trying to pick a name, I just was curious about the type of names traditionally used for this sort of thing. IRC-nicks, realnames, something-else. < 1208358121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I just want to know if you want some real name, or just "fizzie on #esoteric on freenode" < 1208358121 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :up to you. do you want your real name in the source code of befunge interpreters? :-P < 1208358135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hahah < 1208358149 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd think deep and hard on that if I were you. ;-) < 1208358173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well you got your one all over the source of ccbi < 1208358180 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I already have my real name in the sadly defunct GLfunge98, which didn't really get up the ground. (I think googling for my realname finds, thankfully way down in the list, HP-UX packages for that Befunge interpreter.) < 1208358216 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I know, I've plunged off the deep end. :-) < 1208358226 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aye, GLfunge98 looked promising. < 1208358242 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There were lots of good intentions but lack of real motivation. < 1208358244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I'm not familiar with that proverb < 1208358256 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So since I'm already quite a lost cause, feel free to use the real name, 'Heikki Kallasjoki'. Although I don't object to 'fizzie' either. < 1208358278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well believe it or not, but some want their real names < 1208358321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you got to choose though < 1208358334 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "take the plunge, to enter with sudden decision upon an unfamiliar course of action, as after hesitation or deliberation: She took the plunge and invested her entire savings in the plan." < 1208358345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1208358353 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, well, just use the realname, then. < 1208358354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway why would it matter? < 1208358391 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There it is, on the third results page, the HP-UX packages for a Befunge interpreter. Hopefully no prospective employers will bother reading that far. < 1208358393 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh, you're the /author/ of GLfunge98? Didn't expect to find you alive with the program dead ;-) < 1208358434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well how old were you? they can hardly think something you did while you were at university would matter for example < 1208358449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that you did in your free time < 1208358456 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I proudly display CCBI on my CV :-) < 1208358472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm fizzie, you are from Finland? < 1208358473 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still from time to time get occasional pangs of regret over not continuing to play with GLfunge98, but not oftener than once every couple of months. < 1208358476 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even got a summer job in the building fizzie works in, if I read google correctly. < 1208358510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, uhu? < 1208358511 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you mean the CIS lab at HUT, you've read correctly. < 1208358542 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I'm just wondering if the building is in fact the same, or not. < 1208358563 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's all in the same CS building so yes, I do believe so. < 1208358631 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I did have to give a 15 minute explanation about Befunge in a job interview for Nokia Research Centre (since I had "esoteric programming languages" in the CV) for a summer job in 2006, too, and got the place. Seems like it might even not be a negative thing. < 1208358644 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although they were more interested in any Perl experience.) < 1208358653 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, ditto. I wonder whether it was positive or negative. ;-) < 1208358671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it shows a keen interest in programming on your free time? < 1208358675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably a good thing then < 1208358682 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I talked about Befunge, D, and Haskell whilst interviewing for a job which is probably mostly going to involve shell scripting, heh. :-) < 1208358693 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And C, I suppose. < 1208358706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well you need to learn quotes in bash a bit then ;P < 1208358725 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: rather, I need to learn how they interact with builtin functions. < 1208358733 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'd just use them just in case anyhow, so it doesn't matter. ;-P < 1208358755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, apart from in [[ ]], where quotes can sometimes be harmful < 1208358767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in [ ] they work as in normal context though < 1208358782 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use such esoteric syntax. ;-) < 1208358784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ ] is same as test < 1208358790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm? < 1208358800 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ -f foo ]] < 1208358802 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :&c. < 1208358805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you use them in if [ "$foo" = bar ] say < 1208358816 0 :atsampson!n=ats@7hw.poik.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1208358821 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1208358823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course if grep foo works too < 1208358833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if ; then foo... < 1208358838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is just about exit code < 1208358845 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1208358856 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1208358861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and [ ] as well as [[ ]] is just a test command < 1208358873 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1208358873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, [[ ]] got special quoting rules sometimes < 1208358881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is extended from [ ] in other ways < 1208358901 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I think funny is that there's a /usr/bin/[ -- in a file name it looks ugley. < 1208358919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example: both [ -z "$foo" ] and [[ -z "$foo" ]] test if $foo is" empty or unset" < 1208358933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ -z $foo ]] works too < 1208358963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ -z $foo ] does NOT work, will be a syntax error if $foo is unset, or if it contains several words < 1208358985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and then there is the special issue of the regex =~ match that only exists in [[ ]] < 1208359006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash 3.1 and 3.2 handles quoting differently in it < 1208359029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 3.1 behaviour was buggy < 1208359034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but more logical IMO < 1208359041 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yet you think Perl's not-so-clear. :p < 1208359051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in 3.2 it forces a literal match if the regex is quoted < 1208359080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well at least bash doesn't make every single ASCII char be an operator < 1208359088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl is close to that < 1208359109 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and befunge much closer. :-) < 1208359117 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually Perl 6 goes and makes some Unicode chars operators, too. :p < 1208359129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, indeed < 1208359133 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like the single-character versions of the '<<' and '>>' quotes. < 1208359140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eww < 1208359159 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eww? I think it's rather nice actually < 1208359162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, UTF-8, or UTF-16 or what? < 1208359164 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get some decent looking code < 1208359172 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Unicode. UTF-* is just the encoding. < 1208359175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well my keyboard lacks such keys < 1208359184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes I know, but what one does perl read source as < 1208359193 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably any. < 1208359200 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would guess Perl 6 defaults to Unicode. < 1208359202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well how could it know what one < 1208359202 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: then you can type '<<' if you don't have the key. < 1208359209 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :byte order markers exist < 1208359216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1208359217 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can always tell UTF-* apart < 1208359228 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only problem is UTF-8 versus legacy encodings like ISO-8859-* < 1208359279 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recent versions of Perl 5 have a "use utf8;" pragma for writing identifiers-that-have-Unicode-chars, and also 'use encoding "foo"' for any supported encoding. < 1208359290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's the point of UTF8, old programs being able to read the same file < 1208359309 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a point, yes. < 1208359317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, one important one < 1208359321 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1208359355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on unix you could make, say, /etc/fstab utf8 in comments, and it would not break old apps reading the file < 1208359413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or /etc/passwd GECOS field could be able to contain names with åäö in them < 1208359446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or as long as I don't use non-ascii here on irc, anyone that can read ASCII can read what I say, even though my client sends utf8 < 1208359513 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you send UTF-8 and the receiving end assumes it's ISO-8859-1 it gets garbage. < 1208359527 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a tradeoff. < 1208359528 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl 6 operators grepped from my irclogs, might be outdated: there's ^_= and »+^« and ^..^ < 1208359536 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1208359598 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^..^ is the current ".." range operator but excluding the endpoints; (5 ^..^ 9) is (6 .. 8). < 1208359691 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But these were back in 2004. Haven't been following the Perl 6 saga since then, they might have sensiblized it. < 1208359703 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1208359728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it gets even more garbage, with, say, UTF-16 < 1208359759 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but, with UTF-16, you can tell from the BOM that it is, in fact, UTF-16. < 1208359782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also utf-16 got more overhead when the data is mainly in ASCII range < 1208359786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as is common on irc < 1208359791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or config files for *nix < 1208359859 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true that < 1208360996 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Killed (NickServ (Comando GHOST usato da DIO))" < 1208363373 0 :ehird`!n=test@91.105.122.127 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208363386 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: ANOTHER DAY, ONE TO WORK ON OKOHIRD-- < 1208364976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, "okohird--"? < 1208364979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that < 1208365011 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: my implementation of oklotalk-- < 1208365017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1208365026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what differs between the normal one and --? < 1208365053 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- has not muh syntax < 1208365054 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sucks < 1208365060 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he has not made oklotalk yes < 1208365061 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just oklotalk-- < 1208365062 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yet < 1208365292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1208365304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, is the syntax that hard to parse? < 1208365338 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, there are no syntax errors < 1208365350 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :({{{]) is valid < 1208365427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, and what would it do? < 1208365464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway befunge technically got no syntax errors either, it is perfectly valid to use an non-implemented instruction to reflect < 1208365471 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I *think* ({{{[]}}}) < 1208365488 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: am I right? < 1208365651 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whuaa < 1208365740 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ has a lower precedence than (, it would actually be ({{{([])}}}) < 1208365763 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay then oklofok < 1208365774 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rationale is to be able to do { ptrn -> ( expr expr expr } < 1208365862 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: surely { ptrn -> expr expr expr } should be valid! < 1208365874 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ x -> func x $hello } < 1208365885 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ outn "wooty"; x -> func x $hello; outn "wotty" } < 1208365893 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ambigious < 1208365894 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but.. < 1208365948 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should know whether you mean (x -> func x $hello) outn "wotty"; or x -> (func x $hello; outn "wotty";) based on which is better. < 1208366061 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: well, i am thinking < 1208366067 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you can introduce another seperator comma , < 1208366071 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has a lower precedence < 1208366072 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1208366083 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ outn "wooty"; x -> func x $hello; outn "wotty" } < 1208366083 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is < 1208366092 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ outn "wooty"; x -> (func x $hello); outn "wotty" } < 1208366092 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1208366102 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ outn "wooty"; x -> func x $hello, outn "wotty" } < 1208366102 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is < 1208366107 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ outn "wooty"; x -> (func x $hello; outn "wotty") } < 1208366116 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: seems natural to me, and fits with english puncutation < 1208366118 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, comma exists already. < 1208366145 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works exactly like that for side-effects, but is in fact a third way to make a list < 1208366178 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: oh. well i think you should drop commas for lists < 1208366179 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1208366180 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a, b < 1208366181 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[a b] < 1208366187 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not that much different < 1208366188 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1208366190 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a, b, c, d < 1208366191 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[a b c d] < 1208366193 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is shorter < 1208366198 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a,b,c,d < 1208366200 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is shorter < 1208366202 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: and my way means stuff can be shorter < 1208366206 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1208366206 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1208366207 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, true, it's not much use < 1208366209 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which do you do more often < 1208366210 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make a list < 1208366212 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i haven't used it much. < 1208366215 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or have multiple exprs in a function < 1208366221 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, yeah, i know your point < 1208366225 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll think about it < 1208366232 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and [...] is nicer because with , < 1208366237 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its hard to pick out where hte list starts and ends < 1208366241 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1208366249 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are elaborate rules for it < 1208366254 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, south park time :) < 1208366256 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1208366291 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: ok :) < 1208367072 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is sticking linux on this old crusty machine
< 1208367089 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I poked the distro chooser for a laugh. It's telling me Arch Linux, Slackware, OpenSuSE, Gentoo, edora < 1208367106 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arch and Gentoo seem the most likely ones I'd consider installing. < 1208367116 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If you want to hype Gentoo, now would be the time. < 1208367126 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially if you can convince me I'll have an installed system in hours rather than days. < 1208367300 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on your processor speed. :-) < 1208367319 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Slow. This is not my main machine. < 1208367324 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION checks
< 1208367344 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: 1.8ghz. < 1208367348 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some kind of AMD Smepron shit. < 1208367360 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows says I have 480mb of ram, but that doesn't sound right. < 1208367446 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be a day then, but not day_s_. :-) < 1208367461 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can leave it to compile the base system overnight it shouldn't be that bad. < 1208367508 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Isn't there a fancy type of install that's precompiled? < 1208367510 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stage 3 or something. < 1208367522 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, ideally I'd like to be using it before the day's up. I know that's not particularly realistic, but < 1208367524 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly, I'm not sure. < 1208367580 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in 6 hours with that processor, certainly not from stage 1, I don't think. < 1208367585 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on how big a base you want I suppose. < 1208367594 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I would probably go for stage 3. That's the most compiled, isn't it? < 1208367606 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not '-funroll-loops man', so :) < 1208367607 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure about how the later stages work. < 1208367613 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1208367686 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, I don't see what other distro would work well. < 1208367691 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu sucks on here. < 1208367705 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the rest are either dead, related to Ubuntu or extremely minimalist. < 1208367730 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slackware is fine. < 1208367761 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: never really liked the feel of Slackware. < 1208367772 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like things such as, say, *dependency management* < 1208367793 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1208367921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: If you want to hype Gentoo, now would be the time. < 1208367922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1208367924 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could just do Debian. < 1208367927 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you use gentoo. < 1208367933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, gentoo and arch are both good < 1208367935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer gentoo < 1208367952 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Right, right, just convince me that I can coerce gentoo into giving me a system _today_ < 1208367954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but well, gentoo, freebsd top the list, followed by arch < 1208367962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, well what is your CPU? < 1208367965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpu[1 x AMD Sempron(tm) Processor 3300+ (AuthenticAMD) @ 2.00GHz w/ 128 KB L2 Cache] < 1208367968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what I got here < 1208368019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, from first boot to KDE (base system, I never install games and such) installed about 5 hours iirc < 1208368022 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: amd sempron 1.8ghz. This is not my main computer, before you scream in horror < 1208368025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually less maybe < 1208368031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, amd64 or? < 1208368038 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No way! This is a lame 32-bit machiine. < 1208368044 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And none of the hardware agrees with the ohter hardware. < 1208368046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1208368054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, oh? how do you mean? < 1208368090 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: its all incompatible in subtle ways that make it crash and creak < 1208368098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway about system today, depends on several things: local time, (if you start just before midnight, of course not), how much time you spend chatting on irc and so on < 1208368106 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was upgraded in a very cobbled-together fashion < 1208368109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, what components got issues with what ones? < 1208368113 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and: time is 17:48 < 1208368121 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and, just about all of them < 1208368161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I would start in the morning < 1208368177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, also I would do a stage3 < 1208368185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first time you will need to read the manual < 1208368187 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I need a system today, so unless you can convince me I'll install debian today and consider gentoo tomorrow < 1208368191 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, i was thinking stage3. < 1208368198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, then go for arch < 1208368207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arch is good for being binary < 1208368217 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Hmm. How does it differ from, say, debian unstable < 1208368229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, being sane < 1208368238 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Debian's pretty sane < 1208368257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well last I checked they used *old* pre-release compilers in stable for example < 1208368277 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Nobody uses stable. < 1208368306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, anyway arch is quite fast too on x86 < 1208368318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and last I checked rather easy to install < 1208368329 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I can install Debian in under an hour. < 1208368331 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about arch? < 1208368348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, it was quite some time ago I tried it, but I think less than half an hour < 1208368366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, however this may have been about 1-1.5 years ago < 1208368372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but shouldn't be worse I guess < 1208368374 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that was a modern system presumably < 1208368388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, it was a p4 at 1.something GHz < 1208368392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :512 MB RAM < 1208368398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IDE 80 GB drive < 1208368417 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but the hardware was all compatible, I assume. < 1208368433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, can't check exactly as I no longer have the system in question, the power supply went for a smoke and I salvaged the bits that worked < 1208368452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, well I still don't see how they would be incompatible < 1208368459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you haven't given any example < 1208368461 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. This machine is a demon. < 1208368467 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is pure evil itself < 1208368473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you got no examples then? < 1208368502 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really except that it crashes for no reason and drops data because it feelsl ike it < 1208368520 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1208368527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, tried memtest? < 1208368550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from that I'd recommend trying to disable acpi < 1208368563 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I should leave memtest running at one point. < 1208368574 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure what ACPI is, though. heard the term, but I don't know what it is. I'm silly, < 1208368592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, it is something for power managment, as well as "find out what the computer can do" < 1208368595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a few other things < 1208368609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Advanced_Configuration_and_Power_Interface < 1208368616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, however it can cause issues sometimes < 1208368676 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1208368696 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think I will go for Debian, I don't really care about this system, I just can't bear Windows any more < 1208368711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, well windows probably cause the lockups then... < 1208368716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, give arch a try < 1208368719 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Nah, I've used Linux on here before. < 1208368723 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's actually less stable. < 1208368730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, what distro did you use on it? < 1208368731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debian? < 1208368735 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :various < 1208368739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, list? < 1208368746 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: lesse... < 1208368749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and was debian included in it? < 1208368757 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeBSD, debian, ubuntu, fedora, slackware, and others < 1208368776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then maybe time to try arch < 1208368781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and see if it is more stable < 1208368833 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. < 1208368836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, anyway my system is quite stable, even though I got quite a mix of components < 1208368910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie, a sound card with midi from 2003 or so, a new geforce card from last year, and so on < 1208368916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did try suse, it was quite unstable under it, same for debian, but gentoo did turn out to be stable < 1208368925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only tried arch later, on another computer < 1208368964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, but since gentoo does need some patience at first install, it is probably best to try arch < 1208369014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, oh and download time for cd was not included in the "half hour" for arch < 1208369020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how long it took to download < 1208369030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I had a bad connection back then 512 kbps down < 1208369035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so quite long I suspect < 1208369440 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: woot, 600kB/sec < 1208369443 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love my internet connection < 1208369450 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is made of love < 1208369453 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hugs < 1208369457 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^ TRUTH < 1208369503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I got 8 mbit down, that means about 450-550 kilobyte / sec here < 1208369571 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And this university student village 100Mbps connection means around 9 megabytes / sec from many places. < 1208369659 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ditto < 1208369871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, well arch it is then? :) < 1208369905 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, Debian. I will probably try Gentoo tomorrow. < 1208369908 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But for today, this is fastset. < 1208369912 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've already downloaded it. < 1208369921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, arch is good if you want binary < 1208369936 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too late. < 1208369941 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's burning now < 1208369976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gentoo need a bit more patience, but things are easy to fix if they break, and they don't break often < 1208369978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much easier to fix than when say debian breaks < 1208370044 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohw Ell. < 1208370046 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's burned. < 1208370050 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See you in $TIME < 1208370125 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1208370361 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personally my experiences wrt. the fixability of Debian and Gentoo have been exactly the opposite, but on the other hand I haven't touched Gentoo since 2003 or so. < 1208370499 0 :ehird`!n=test@91.105.122.127 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208370538 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1208370541 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need to get a bigger one < 1208370563 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: did I mention that the 600kB/sec speed was on wireless < 1208370571 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The people who send me spam can probably help. < 1208370601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, hm? < 1208370608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bigger what? < 1208370612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird`, cd? arch then < 1208370617 0 :ehird!n=test@91.105.122.127 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208370624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah. < 1208370626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was just wireless < 1208370740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1208371366 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1208371535 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.cust.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1208371753 0 :ehird`!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1208372110 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1208372120 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-080-228-180-022.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1208372411 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1208372415 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-080-228-190-134.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1208373006 0 :ehird!n=ehird@91.105.122.127 JOIN :#esoteric < 1208373009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello from a new debian system < 1208373020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works, basically. < 1208373027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is debian's gnome meant to feel non-smooth? < 1208373030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, maybe i need gfx drivers < 1208375077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, KDE may work better < 1208375090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs
< 1208375094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, Don't feel like KDe today. < 1208375095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, Hi. < 1208375555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, Ping < 1208375585 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ölonmg < 1208375663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1208375679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, ehird@debian:~/src/oklotalk$ python okofficial/cli.pyc < 1208375679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RuntimeError: Bad magic number in .pyc file < 1208375679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird@debian:~/src/oklotalk$ python -V < 1208375679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python 2.4.4 < 1208375692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION installs 2.5
< 1208375856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, btw you got the pyc files for me? I don't have python 2.5 < 1208375859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only 2.4 < 1208376125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, just install 2.5 < 1208376163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :class DisregardThat(object): # I considered appending 'ISuckCocks' to the name of this lass < 1208376165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*class < 1208376305 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1208376345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1208376349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my parser is broken < 1208376353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't handle comments nicely < 1208376387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, can you show me your parser src :( < 1208376804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, haha, my interp's thing->string shows the actual code < 1208376805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1208376988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, can't you disassemble the pyc < 1208377012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, yes but only to the bytecode instructions < 1208377014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are stack-based < 1208377020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus very unhelpful for reading < 1208377039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I see < 1208377053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, why not open source < 1208377143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, its for a school project < 1208377148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he doesn't want to release it until the < 1208377160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally this is the 3rd time you've bugged him about it being closed source < 1208377174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you simply not accept the fact that closed source software exists? < 1208377196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1208377228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of it is even *good* < 1208377259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, scoping question < 1208377263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i have a var A in another scope < 1208377268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then we have a nested scope inside that < 1208377269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and set A < 1208377272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the outer scope's A mutated, < 1208377279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it just created in the inner one < 1208377282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and shadowed < 1208378041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, qutie important < 1208378278 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: comments are trivial to do < 1208378288 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just keep the sum of open comments or soemthing < 1208378290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, yeah < 1208378294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, oh crap < 1208378295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't do nesting < 1208378296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1208378297 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inc on <--, dec on --> < 1208378298 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1208378304 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then ofc even more trivial :P < 1208378304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, and yeah, its just that i have a method < 1208378306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.parse_one() < 1208378311 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1208378311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is expected to return a value < 1208378314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is called in a loop < 1208378314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT < 1208378320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't just recurse after a comment, .parse_one() < 1208378322 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and comments return nothing so boom? < 1208378324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if the comment is at the end.. < 1208378329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have to pretend i was never called < 1208378344 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whhhell, i'm sure you can fix that on your own :P < 1208378348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so my hack is: .parse_many() gives a special param, after a comment, if the src is over and it is set, we return none < 1208378350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, unexpected EOF < 1208378354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and parse_many() checks for None < 1208378358 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"parsing is trivial", a guy once told me < 1208378364 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know who taht was? < 1208378366 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that < 1208378371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::))) < 1208378378 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed! < 1208378406 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, back to watching! < 1208378410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, but < 1208378410 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm leaving you < 1208378411 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1208378412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about scoping < 1208378415 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but? :| < 1208378416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i asked a question about it < 1208378416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1208378419 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1208378422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oklofok, scoping question < 1208378422 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaand hmm < 1208378422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if i have a var A in another scope < 1208378422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : then we have a nested scope inside that < 1208378422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and set A < 1208378422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : is the outer scope's A mutated, < 1208378423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : or is it just created in the inner one < 1208378425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and shadowed < 1208378425 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lessee < 1208378427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oklofok, qutie important < 1208378438 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only created in inner one < 1208378452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, so how do i mutate outer variables < 1208378468 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there will be other ways to set vars, but i'm not gonna tell you what they are, because you'd implement them, and i'd then have to do that too. < 1208378471 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't. < 1208378475 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or make setters < 1208378485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, actually, could you give me a basic scoping stress-test < 1208378488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i can verify i get it right < 1208378493 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asd < 1208378508 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know the chick i was talking about < 1208378513 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :she's threatening me < 1208378519 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have to watch an episode now < 1208378521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1208378522 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps after taht :| < 1208378524 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that < 1208378528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goodbye < 1208378532 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1208379330 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1208379365 0 :Slereah!n=Vampire_@ANantes-252-1-94-122.w81-53.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1208379670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah, hello < 1208379777 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hai. < 1208379819 0 :Iskr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1208380088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, look at me! I just installed non-free software! < 1208380097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? < 1208380099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good to know debian is no longer run by idealist idiots < 1208380102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1208380128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, Yeah, enabled the etch non-free repo and installed the Sun Java JDK. It is the only one that supports the newest stuff. < 1208380134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of the compilers don't even get 1.5 right. < 1208380138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the apps I use in java won't work < 1208380494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cute: < 1208380496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enum TinyHelloWorld{T;System s;{s.out.println("Hello, world!");s.exit(0);}} < 1208380504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that, as far as I can tell, is the shortest java hello world you can get < 1208380507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vs: < 1208380533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :public class HelloWorld{public static void main(String[]a){System.out.println("Hello, world!");}} < 1208381094 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1208381626 0 :ais523!n=ais523@ce01-fap05.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1208381660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello ais523 < 1208381671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello ehird < 1208381752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, there was actually more discussion about BackFlip < 1208381761 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been thinking about it a bit recently < 1208381794 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it would be TC if you repeated the program as a cylinder, so that the left and right sides of the program were identified, and the program was repeated vertically an infinite number of times < 1208381882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I think I am going to implement one of your rewriting languages in somethiing silly. < 1208381893 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Underlambda in m4? < 1208381907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's for you :P < 1208381934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Maybe Forte in Thutu. < 1208381945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I already did that, more or less < 1208381956 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only Forte interp I know of was written in wimpmode Thutu < 1208381969 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(where I extended it to allow easy arithmetic) < 1208381987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, then 1cnis < 1208381995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though it looks complex. < 1208382007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually. < 1208382011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Underload in Thue. < 1208382028 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Underload in Thue sounds good < 1208382060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I don't think I can do output though < 1208382063 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1cnis would probably be harder due to the need to synchronize things so that they happen effectively simultaneously < 1208382078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I mean literal output < 1208382078 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, this means you can soon have underload in mod_rewrite using my thue-to-mod_rewrite compiler < 1208382082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could probably REWRITE output. < 1208382090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, I need to see that! < 1208382092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and although it isn't mine, a Xigxag in Thue would be interesting too < 1208382094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though it's pretty trivial < 1208382114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you could use Underlambda-style output, where S outputs a function not a string < 1208382118 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, four lines of sed and a few bootstrap rewriting rules in an apache config < 1208382144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, No, I mean, Thue can't output text from the initial rule. < 1208382146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just hardcoded < 1208382154 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: why noy use cat as the CGI script that shows the final output < 1208382181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beh. Thue is too primitive for this. < 1208382181 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: with Underlambda-style output you only need to be able to output the command characters, not all characters < 1208382191 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the final results is in the query string, and I don't think that comes on standard input < 1208382197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Have you tried Oklotalk-- by the way? < 1208382204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, redirect on PATH_INFO < 1208382209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/rewrite.cgi/FOO < 1208382214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rewrite.cgi: < 1208382216 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: you're right, it comes in an environment variable for GET, and on stdin for POST < 1208382218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/usr/bin/env perl < 1208382224 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh, maybe you can rewrite things into post variables < 1208382225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print $ENV["PATH_INFO"]; < 1208382227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think. < 1208382239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, But yeah -- oklotalk-- < 1208382242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: your Perl is atrocious < 1208382247 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I've seen bits of it but not used it < 1208382247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes! < 1208382247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is! < 1208382250 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looked interesting < 1208382256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my Perl is totally atrocious < 1208382259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that Perl statement should have used curly brackets < 1208382260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I don't know Perl < 1208382263 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: in this case, I have a php script that does echo $_SERVER['QUERY_STRING'] or whatever the actual names are < 1208382265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yes, that. < 1208382266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ENV{"PATH_INFO"} < 1208382276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make it a MODERN reference! < 1208382285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$self->env->{"PATH_INFO"} < 1208382299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I think that can be done with blessed objects < 1208382311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes it can < 1208382442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Hmm. I want to make a Lambda Calculus macro system < 1208382444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might be interesting < 1208382477 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or write a lambda-calculus-to-Underload-compiler in Thue or some similar language < 1208382485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda calculus to underload < 1208382487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1208382494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for thue < 1208382500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, thue can only deal with very restricted formats < 1208382500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to do one as rewrite rules as a way to specify how lambdas worked in Underlambda < 1208382514 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, I limited variable names to x, y, and z < 1208382525 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly w as well, I forget < 1208382556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, But with placeholders, I bet. < 1208382560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thue is just string->string. < 1208382575 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I've been designing a new rewriting language that I haven't told anyone about yet < 1208382584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's interesting, but likely to be very hard to implement efficiently < 1208382601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd be interested in having a go < 1208382624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rewriting is done on graphs rather than on strings < 1208382684 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making it a sort of 2D Thue < 1208382717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to call it Eodermdrome, and it looks like someone may have to ask me what it means because neither Google nor Wikipedia seems to know < 1208382733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sounds like graphica < 1208382735 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to track down the book I learnt the word from, so I can use it as a source to write about it < 1208382747 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: quite possibly it's been done before < 1208382749 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, graph rewriting = haskell (in some abstract sense... according to what I hear) < 1208382756 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lang looks more like Haifu, though < 1208382764 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except mostly using nonsense words, or nonsense sentences < 1208382767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, graphica is oklofok < 1208382768 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're talking nodes+vertices graphs rather than x/y graphs < 1208382770 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I kept the comma=comment idea < 1208382810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have always wanted to make a language which is JUST powerful enough to be non-trivial (very low barrier) and powerful enough to represent all of its own model in itself < 1208382817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it can represent the interpreter, call stack, etc. < 1208382823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there must not be one unexposed bit < 1208382830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :call it Ouroboros < 1208382850 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it can self-interpret, but isn't TC? < 1208382859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not what i meant < 1208382860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not self-interpret < 1208382861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1208382868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine a language where the call stack was a first-class object < 1208382871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :smalltalks have them < 1208382874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called CallStack or similar < 1208382884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's a bit of the interpreter 'eaten up' by the language it hosts < 1208382891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, the idea is to have EVERY SINGLE PART eaten up < 1208382896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the parts that do the eating up < 1208382964 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some sort of massive reflection, then < 1208383067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, except it's not reflection < 1208383069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's THERE < 1208383072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need a mirror < 1208383074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1208383230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wow, g++'s error messages just rock < 1208383232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1208383249 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: which one in particular did you like? gcc's are quite good, are g++'s even better? < 1208383265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a joke < 1208383283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get used to seeing many>,abc>> < 1208383287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on even the most basic errors < 1208383328 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'd say that's being kind to the programmer by providing lots of information to help them track down the problem < 1208383343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, No -- you can literally have one basic error in a 10-line program < 1208383351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it will quote 15 STL templates < 1208383359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with an unhelpful error message < 1208383365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but they're part of your program too, they were just written by someone else < 1208383384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, You don't understand: STL templates use each other to depths exceeding 100. < 1208383393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are *never* helpful to know. < 1208383409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: your last two statements contradict each other < 1208383417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, try coding c++ some time. < 1208383424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually don't < 1208383425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's awful < 1208383429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :templates using each other to depths exceeding 100 is a great sort of thing for esolangers to like < 1208383436 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I learnt C++ before I learnt C < 1208383442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was old-style C++ < 1208383450 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before it had STL or even namespaces < 1208383456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the string class was nice, though < 1208383500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, default arguments with the magic setter stuff is so much fun... < 1208383509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you never have to write a function body again! < 1208383513 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay default arguments < 1208383524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, you never have to write values again, since C++ templates are turing complete < 1208383527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not only that, < 1208383530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're a lazy functional language. < 1208383538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :About 10x nicer than C++ itself. < 1208383558 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: see, /that's/ what the error messages are for! < 1208383561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Not only are they a lazy, turing complete, functional language, they're a lazy, turing complete, strongly-typed functional language. < 1208383574 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: in other words, Haskell < 1208383583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Exactly! < 1208383596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there's no meta-templates, so you can't use parametized types in the code. I don;'t think so at least. < 1208383627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, http://reddit.com/info/6fasr/comments/c03p4mn Maybe monad in C++ templates < 1208383633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://reddit.com/info/6fasr/comments/c03oswa Translation for LC->C++ templates < 1208383652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, And finally, a translation of lambda calculus church numerals to C++: http://reddit.com/info/6fasr/comments/c03ongu < 1208383666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As for Peano numerals: < 1208383668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct Zero {}; < 1208383668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :template < 1208383668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct Succ { T v; }; < 1208383824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, A toy C++ program I just wrote to refresh my memory (It's easy to forget everything about C++ in a few months) < 1208383828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :contains this wonderful constructor < 1208383828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Greeter(std::ostream &output = std::cout) : out (output) {} < 1208383838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note: no function body < 1208383840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is actually (pseudo-code): < 1208383855 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1208383855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Greeter(std::ostream &output = std::cout) { this.out = output; } < 1208383860 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that still looks strange to me, I learnt C++ before the typename keyword was invented (they used to use 'class' back then, which was confusing because the same keyword was used for two things, and it could refer to non-classes too) < 1208383864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonderfully esoteric < 1208384047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Actually, it startles me how clean you can make lambda calculus stuff with templates. < 1208384051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not unpleasant, really. < 1208384060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: templates are lambda calculus, more or less < 1208384076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Nicer actually - they have arithmetic and everything < 1208384097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If using them without C++ underneath wasn't considered esoteric, I'd be coding in them :p < 1208384106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boost is cool though < 1208384205 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do so many people hate C++? < 1208384218 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has lots of features that some people don't like, but nobody's forcing you to use them < 1208384230 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can write C++ which is just C + the string class if I like < 1208384243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, C++ pretends C is something it's not. < 1208384247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I personally hate it, but it's fun. < 1208384278 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ is a continuum of languages, from C to some sort of crazy OO template thing and everything in between < 1208384288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's a good language for writing things which are slightly object-oriented < 1208384305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda.cc:8: error: type/value mismatch at argument 1 in template parameter list for ‘template class > class > class T’ < 1208384312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, error messages are fun < 1208384335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that looks like a really informative error message to me, and I'm not being sarcastic < 1208384361 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case, it's an argument type mismatch, so it's saying you have to pick an argument which really does have that crazy type, not some other crazy type < 1208384364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes < 1208384368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sidenote: < 1208384377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :templates TOTALLY fuck up 'declaration-as-usage' :D < 1208384379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usage: < 1208384385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T -> typename T < 1208384393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T -> template class T < 1208384408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T> -> template