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00:45:31 <ehird> Bye for today :)
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00:58:28 <Sgeo> <ais523|busy> reminds me of the esoteric file system idea I had, where all files were functions, Unlambda-style, which you evaluated to get the file's contents. That way, you could do special files easily, and files could be stored compressed on disk if necessary, and you could have lazy files which were infinitely long...
01:00:13 <GregorR> Seeking = PITA
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11:55:01 <AnMaster> Deewiant, your TIME fingerprint, wtf are you doing in it? D code as a string constant!?
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11:56:33 <Deewiant> AnMaster: metaprogramming
11:56:57 <AnMaster> Deewiant, you mean, like a macro in C?
11:57:06 <Deewiant> sorta
11:57:22 <AnMaster> hm?
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11:57:53 <Deewiant> mixin("int x;") - equivalent to just int x;
11:58:07 <Deewiant> but with templates you can generate the string literal
11:58:17 <AnMaster> ah
11:58:21 <AnMaster> like macros then
11:58:22 <Deewiant> so I don't have to write the same code over and over
11:58:28 <Deewiant> sorta.
11:58:36 <AnMaster> #define ROMAPUSH(x, y) \
11:58:37 <AnMaster> static void FingerROMApush ## x (instructionPointer * ip) \
11:58:37 <AnMaster> { \
11:58:37 <AnMaster> StackPush(ip->stack, (FUNGEDATATYPE)y); \
11:58:37 <AnMaster> }
11:58:49 <AnMaster> I do it like that
11:58:56 <AnMaster> then just:
11:58:58 <AnMaster> ROMAPUSH(I, 1)
11:58:58 <AnMaster> ROMAPUSH(V, 5)
11:59:00 <AnMaster> and so on
11:59:17 <Deewiant> yes, that's similar.
11:59:42 <AnMaster> quite powerful, macros in C
12:01:23 <AnMaster> oh btw you seem to like using static buffers, instead of allocating on the stack, depending on situation I think creating one in the function may work better, due to risk of cache misses otherwise
12:01:30 <AnMaster> but that is over-optimizing IMO
12:01:46 <AnMaster> Deewiant, anyway I added JSTR to cfunge now
12:02:00 <AnMaster> rather simple one really
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12:06:21 <AnMaster> Deewiant, another question: Should the UTC/non-UTC stuff in TIME be local to the ip or global?
12:09:29 <AnMaster> ccbi seems to have it global
12:23:09 <Deewiant> AnMaster: say it with me: *not spe-ci-fied, up to you*
12:23:24 <AnMaster> hah
12:23:31 * AnMaster is implementing FILE atm though
12:24:12 <ehird> Deewiant: AnMaster does not know the meaning of that
12:24:31 <ehird> or 'Premature opt-imi-zat-ion is the root of all evil'
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13:27:16 <ehird> Zoop
13:38:38 <ehird> damn i'm leet
13:38:42 <ehird> i'm using emacs and vi on the same projcet
13:38:43 <ehird> at once
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13:51:25 <olsner> hopefully you're not using the editor in emacs :P
13:54:48 <ehird> olsner: i so am
13:55:22 <olsner> may your choice of deity have mercy on your soul
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14:03:09 <ehird> olsner: i don't think the flying spaghetti monster really cares all that much
14:03:58 <olsner> well, poor choice of deity then :P
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14:42:25 <ehird> return $it if $it = ...; // this is a kinda neat perl trick, i wish i could do this in other languages
14:42:27 <ehird> 'x and return'
15:14:58 <AnMaster> Deewiant, there is a bug in FILE of CCBI I think
15:15:04 <AnMaster> in fopen one:
15:15:05 <AnMaster> case 2: file = c.fopen(name, "ab");  c.rewind(file); break;
15:15:17 <AnMaster> you need to check in between that the fopen did work
15:15:30 <AnMaster> rather than after trying rewind on it
15:15:43 <Deewiant> doesn't rewind fail on a failed fopen
15:16:03 <AnMaster> well fopen returns NULL on failed open
15:16:11 <AnMaster> no idea what happens with rewind on a null pointer
15:16:21 <Deewiant> man rewind says the following:
15:16:21 <Deewiant> EBADF  The stream specified is not a seekable stream.
15:16:33 <fizzie> But NULL is not a stream at all.
15:16:44 <AnMaster>   The rewind() function sets the file position indicator for the stream pointed to by stream to the beginning of the file.  It is equivalent to:
15:16:45 <AnMaster>          (void) fseek(stream, 0L, SEEK_SET)
15:16:47 <Deewiant> and hence it's not a seekable stream.
15:16:48 <AnMaster>   except that the error indicator for the stream is also cleared (see clearerr(3)).
15:16:49 <AnMaster> hm
15:16:55 <AnMaster> fizzie, indeex
15:16:57 <AnMaster> indeed*
15:17:00 <fizzie> Yes, but you still need to specify a stream.
15:17:58 <Deewiant> you appear to be correct
15:19:01 <fizzie> Even if it would happen to work, I don't think you could really rely on it unless The Standard would specifically mention it's safe to call with a null pointer.
15:19:21 <Deewiant> seeing as it segfaults both on windows and linux I'd say you guys are right. ;-)
15:20:24 <AnMaster> well man 3p on rewind refers to fseek for details, and man 3p fseek doesn't mention null pointer anywhere
15:20:55 <ehird> The Standard That Is Great And Holy In Caps
15:20:55 <ehird> :D
15:21:06 <ehird> but i wouldn't rely on it, yeah
15:21:08 <AnMaster> ehird, it wasn't I that said it...
15:21:08 <ehird> it sounds shaky
15:21:14 <ehird> and even if it is standard
15:21:16 <ehird> i bet some system gets it wrong
15:21:18 <ehird> AnMaster: I know
15:21:20 <ehird> i just found it amusing
15:21:22 <ehird> it's like Him
15:21:26 <ehird> it's The Standard
15:21:27 <AnMaster> Who?
15:21:37 <ehird> AnMaster: Him is what religious people call god
15:21:40 <ehird> always capitalized like That
15:21:49 <AnMaster> ah
15:21:56 <ehird> 'And I talked to Him and asked him for big moneys, and he said FSCK U NOOB'
15:22:21 <AnMaster> haha
15:23:03 <fizzie> I also used to refer to The Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy as "The Book".
15:23:09 <AnMaster> hah
15:24:14 <AnMaster> Deewiant, may I ask wtf you are doing in your fgets routine? it seems overly complex
15:24:39 <AnMaster> doesn't D have a fgets?
15:24:43 <Deewiant> D has the C stdlib
15:25:50 <AnMaster> well what are you doing it for then?
15:26:08 <AnMaster> Deewiant, is it because fgets will look for \n and not \r\n or?
15:26:19 <Deewiant> if that's what it does then that's definitely a reason
15:26:35 <AnMaster> but well
15:26:36 <Deewiant> probably the fact that I don't know
15:26:39 <AnMaster> that doesn't really help
15:26:56 <AnMaster> because both will stop on the \n of \r\n
15:27:09 <Deewiant> what about only \r
15:27:27 <AnMaster> well... I don't think your code stop on it
15:27:32 <Deewiant> of course it does
15:27:40 <Deewiant> case '\r', right there
15:27:54 <AnMaster> oh wait yes it does
15:27:55 <AnMaster> hm
15:28:41 <AnMaster> Deewiant, it will probably use whatever is used on the OS
15:28:48 <Deewiant> quite possible
15:28:50 <Deewiant> and I can't have that
15:29:06 <AnMaster> as in \r\n on windows, or if stream is in text mode (eww) just \n
15:29:36 <Deewiant> shrug about text mode... I never know how that works except that it's never the way I want :-P
15:29:43 <Slereah> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dmEvPZUdAVI
15:29:45 <AnMaster> indeed
15:29:59 <Deewiant> but still, gotta support all 3 line endings regardless of OS
15:30:04 <Slereah> How did Microsoft ever became a monopole with ads like that?
15:30:08 <Deewiant> and hence, I don't trust fgets.
15:30:44 <AnMaster> Deewiant, not got to, the standard says should and "If an interpreter cannot support all three varieties of end-of-line marker, it should be clearly noted in that interpreter's documentation."
15:30:55 <AnMaster> so it is strongly recommended to support all
15:30:59 <AnMaster> but not required
15:31:00 <Deewiant> I think that's crap. :-P
15:31:16 <AnMaster> Deewiant, it is the 98 specs...
15:31:22 <Deewiant> I think any program that doesn't support all 3 types is crap.
15:31:25 <AnMaster> I support all three
15:31:28 <Deewiant> regardless of specs.
15:31:41 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I can think of cases where it may not be possible
15:31:49 <AnMaster> say if the interpreter is coded in intercal
15:31:55 <Deewiant> then intercal is crap. :-P
15:31:57 <AnMaster> doesn't it mess with newlines?
15:32:01 <Deewiant> I don't know.
15:32:17 <Deewiant> ais523 isn't here so I guess we won't get an authoritative answer, either. :-)
15:32:52 <AnMaster> also one thing of D I would like in C: being able to break out of multiple loops with a break
15:32:59 <AnMaster> as it is, that is the only case I use goto
15:33:08 <Deewiant> yep, it's probably the most common case
15:33:09 <AnMaster> because there is no other way in C
15:33:42 <AnMaster> Deewiant, yeah, also common for stuff like: goto error, that cleans up stuff or such. I don't do that
15:35:27 <AnMaster> Deewiant, hm no your doesn't end input on \r
15:35:43 <AnMaster> Deewiant, it just does break; not break loop;
15:35:48 <AnMaster> so another bug in ccbi
15:36:23 <Deewiant> good catch :-)
15:37:41 <AnMaster> Deewiant, hm... FileHandle[c.FOPEN_MAX] handles; that is decided at compile time in CCBI?
15:37:53 <Deewiant> just like a C array.
15:38:06 <AnMaster> Deewiant, hm?
15:38:13 <Deewiant> hm what?
15:38:17 <Deewiant> it's a static array.
15:38:19 <AnMaster> C99 got VLA :P
15:38:22 <AnMaster> yeah
15:38:24 <Deewiant> not at global scope. :-P
15:38:33 <AnMaster> true
15:38:45 <AnMaster> max fds varies however
15:38:54 <Deewiant> hence, FOPEN_MAX.
15:39:03 <AnMaster> yes, what does that mean in this case?
15:39:23 <AnMaster> /usr/include/gentoo-multilib/amd64/stdio.h:   FOPEN_MAX Minimum number of files that can be open at once.
15:39:27 <Deewiant> seeing as it's in "c" it's a C constant...
15:39:41 <AnMaster> FOPEN_MAX is defined to 16 here. heh
15:40:02 <AnMaster> that is the minimum guaranteed.
15:40:07 <Deewiant> "    The value of this macro is an integer constant expression that represents the minimum number of streams that the implementation guarantees can be open simultaneously. You might be able to open more than this many streams, but that is not guaranteed."
15:40:26 <AnMaster> thus it should be checked at runtime :)
15:40:26 <Deewiant> oh, darn, it includes stdin/stdout/stderr
15:40:30 <Deewiant> hm?
15:40:55 <AnMaster> because you are more likely to be able to open like 1024 fds or so
15:41:03 <Deewiant> but it's not guaranteed.
15:41:07 <AnMaster> open files                      (-n) 1024
15:41:11 <AnMaster> from ulimit -a
15:41:15 <Deewiant> in one program?
15:41:26 <AnMaster> Deewiant, indeed, but if you can't open, check return value of fopen ;P
15:41:27 <Deewiant> and why does stdio.h then define it as 16?
15:41:36 <AnMaster> Deewiant, it does here, I don't know why
15:41:46 <Deewiant> wtf is the point of having all these predefined constants if they don't mean anything
15:41:47 <AnMaster> I malloc my handle array so...
15:41:56 <Deewiant> seriously, the windows API looks a lot nicer sometimes :-P
15:42:05 <AnMaster> Deewiant, anyway SOCK could create more fds iirc
15:42:14 <AnMaster> so it isn't FOPEN_MAX -3
15:42:19 <AnMaster> or something as simple as that
15:42:35 <Deewiant> fine, dynamic then.
15:42:38 <AnMaster> the best way to check would be getconf() I think....
15:42:40 <Deewiant> piece of crap API.
15:42:42 <AnMaster> if you *need* to know it
15:43:05 <AnMaster> err not getconf, that is the command line alternative
15:43:08 <AnMaster> version*
15:43:15 <AnMaster> sysconf()
15:44:40 <AnMaster> Deewiant, if you really need to know it is sysconf(_SC_OPEN_MAX) I think
15:45:17 <Deewiant> whatever.
15:45:32 <AnMaster> Deewiant, anyway the same applies to Windows afaik
15:45:49 <AnMaster> you can't know exactly how many files you can have open
15:46:06 <AnMaster> not at compile time at least
15:47:12 <AnMaster> Deewiant, also, FOPEN_MAX is from ANSI C
15:47:18 <AnMaster> so don't blame POSIX :P
15:47:34 <Deewiant> I blame distributions for defining it as something anal
15:48:01 <AnMaster> I blame whoever didn't read the docs for not doing so ;)
15:48:15 <Deewiant> how the hell should I know what docs to read
15:48:17 <AnMaster> I agree it is a stupid name...
15:48:26 <Deewiant> I read the docs for fopen and it says FOPEN_MAX is the absolute limit
15:48:44 <Deewiant> but oh, actually FOPEN_MAX is only one-sixteenth of the real limit
15:48:49 <Deewiant> sigh
15:48:53 <AnMaster> err my man fopen doesn't mention FOPEN_MAX...
15:49:28 <AnMaster> and man 3p fopen doesn't say it is an absolute limit
15:49:41 <Deewiant> it says it's the maximum guaranteed
15:49:45 <AnMaster>        The fopen() function shall fail if:
15:49:48 <AnMaster>        EMFILE {OPEN_MAX} file descriptors are currently open in the calling process.
15:49:51 <AnMaster>        The fopen() function may fail if:
15:49:55 <AnMaster>        EMFILE {FOPEN_MAX} streams are currently open in the calling process.
15:49:57 <AnMaster> hm
15:50:06 <Deewiant> streams vs. file descriptors too. :-P
15:50:07 <AnMaster> yes maximum guaranteed
15:50:19 <AnMaster> but my point here, is that on most systems you can open way more
15:50:26 <Deewiant> so why doesn't the man page say that?
15:50:29 <AnMaster> I tested with a befunge program opening 23 files
15:50:34 <AnMaster> using FILE
15:50:37 <AnMaster> at the same time
15:50:47 <Deewiant> why does it say something useless like "may fail" instead of "is very likely not to fail, it's likely you can open 100x more"
15:51:11 <AnMaster> Deewiant, because when it was written that wasn't the case I guess?
15:51:18 <Deewiant> documentation can be updated
15:51:59 <AnMaster> I agree that FOPEN_MIN may have been a better name...
15:52:12 <Deewiant> or _MIN_MAX? :-P
15:52:14 <AnMaster> Deewiant, but FOPEN_MAX is from ANSI C
15:52:15 <AnMaster> !
15:52:18 <EgoBot> Huh?
15:52:28 <Deewiant> exactly. "Huh?" :-P
15:52:35 <AnMaster> so it is not a case of POSIX
15:52:38 <AnMaster> but ANSI C
15:52:38 <Deewiant> who cares where it's from
15:52:40 <Deewiant> it's badly written
15:52:51 <Deewiant> the man pages aren't copied from some 30-year old ANSI C manual either
15:52:52 <AnMaster>        FOPEN_MAX
15:52:52 <AnMaster> which expands to an integer constant expression that is the minimum number of files that
15:52:52 <AnMaster> the implementation guarantees can be open simultaneously;
15:52:58 <AnMaster> C99
15:53:00 <AnMaster> was that
15:53:12 <Deewiant> whatever
15:53:31 <AnMaster> and ranting about it in here won't help ;P
15:53:43 <Deewiant> I'm willing to shut up
15:53:52 <AnMaster> try ranting to ANSI maybe ;)
15:54:08 <AnMaster> or, for C99 I think it is IEEE? hm
15:54:12 <AnMaster> "not us anyway"
15:54:14 <Deewiant> I don't care that much, I rarely have to mess around with raw C APIs
15:54:18 <Deewiant> to this degree
15:54:33 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well why can't you use the D file reading API for it?
15:54:49 <Deewiant> ... because the specs say that it's the C file API ...
15:55:13 * AnMaster looks
15:55:15 <AnMaster> "(like c fgets)"
15:55:39 <ehird> Deewiant,
15:55:41 <ehird> use Tango
15:55:41 <AnMaster> Deewiant, seems to indicate same behaviour
15:55:44 <ehird> you depend on it
15:55:46 <ehird> so use its file apis
15:55:47 <ehird> not c's
15:55:47 <ehird> ;P
15:55:56 <Deewiant> ehird: 2008-05-03 17:54:49 ( Deewiant) ... because the specs say that it's the C file API ...
15:56:01 <ehird> AnMaster: D has two 100% incompatible stdlibs that you can't have at the same time.
15:56:04 <AnMaster> Deewiant, anyway, it is RC/Funge specs so they aren't clear...
15:56:11 <ehird> AnMaster: Phobos and Tango, Phobos is the official one. Real men use Tango.
15:56:15 <ehird> (read: Phobos sucks)
15:56:16 <AnMaster> ehird, that isn't the question here...
15:56:18 <Deewiant> ehird: tangobos exists.
15:56:29 <ehird> Deewiant: Yes, but that's for goatse-watchers.
15:56:30 <ehird> Or something
15:56:37 <AnMaster> ehird, he is doing this: import c = tango.stdc.stdio;
15:56:49 <ehird> tango has libc in it yes
15:57:01 <AnMaster> and then using c.fgets and so on
15:57:11 <AnMaster> err not fgets, but several other ones
15:57:41 <AnMaster> Deewiant, anyway the FILE specs doesn't say it have to be the A file API
15:57:49 <AnMaster> it only says "(like c fgets)"
15:57:52 <AnMaster> note "like"
15:58:03 <AnMaster> I interpret that as "same behaviour"
15:58:06 <Deewiant> exactly
15:58:10 <Deewiant> bug-for-bug compatibility would be ideal
15:58:18 <Deewiant> which is easiest to get by just using the C functions directly.
16:00:31 <AnMaster> why bug-for-bug?
16:00:55 <Deewiant> because of what the specs say. "like c xxx".
16:01:40 <AnMaster> I assume it means "like the C specs describe this function", and it is INTERCAL no C that got the "random compiler bug" in it's specs ;P
16:02:12 <Deewiant> I'm sure that if I used the tango functions you'd be here saying "in this obscure case, fseek does xxx, does tango's do that?" :-P
16:02:36 <Deewiant> and then I'd be like "don't know, don't care". :-P
16:03:13 <AnMaster> heh
16:03:45 <AnMaster> however that is not an argument as you coded it before you knew of me
16:04:15 <Deewiant> no, but I was sure there might be someone like you. :-P
16:04:30 <Deewiant> or I just felt like using the C functions to remind myself of how they work, who knows?!
16:04:42 <Deewiant> anyhoo, WYGIWYGAINGW.
16:04:45 <Deewiant> I'm off to eat. ->
16:05:48 <AnMaster> ah you like Discworld :)
17:59:30 <AnMaster> Deewiant, by the way the HRTI test shows that at some stuff Boehm-GC is a LOT slower. Mainly realloc seems slow in it
18:00:47 <AnMaster> using preallocaction to alloc at least the needed number of bytes in advance I got it down to acceptable levels.
18:01:07 <AnMaster> however I suspect I may make no gc the default in future at some point
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19:48:16 <ehird> a
21:05:16 <AnMaster> b
21:05:44 <Slereah> cd
21:05:46 <Slereah> EFG
21:06:46 <ihope> hjkl;
21:06:55 <Deewiant> ä'
21:07:13 <Deewiant> <z
21:09:22 <AnMaster> ö!
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21:09:56 <Deewiant> AnMaster: surely you don't have "ö!" to the right of "z" on your keyboard. :-)
21:10:39 <AnMaster> no
21:10:48 <AnMaster> Deewiant, nor do I have ä there either
21:11:16 <AnMaster> Shift < z x c v b n m , . - Shift
21:11:18 <Deewiant> to the right of "hjkl;" on a 'merican keyboard comes ä' followed by enter
21:11:26 <Deewiant> moving on, we get <z
21:11:34 <AnMaster> qwertyuiopå
21:11:37 <AnMaster> asdfghjklöä
21:11:41 <AnMaster> zxcvbnm
21:11:54 <AnMaster> hm ...
21:11:55 <Deewiant> exactly. so you broke the cycle :-/
21:11:55 <AnMaster> x
21:11:58 <AnMaster> in that case
21:11:59 <Deewiant> :-)
21:12:04 <AnMaster> Deewiant, but so did ihope
21:12:07 <Deewiant> shh ;-)
21:12:19 <AnMaster> as we went alphabetically before
21:12:36 <ihope> abcdefghjkl;'
21:13:20 <AnMaster> abcdefgijkl
21:13:25 <AnMaster> abcdefghijkl
21:13:26 <AnMaster> even
21:13:31 <AnMaster> you forgot i
21:13:50 <ihope> Yes, we all know that defghijkl is almost all consecutively... on there.
21:14:08 <ihope> Present in a consecutive manner.
21:14:53 <Slereah> http://4chanarchive.org/images/48232393/1197566589997.png
21:15:45 <ehird> Slereah: hah
21:16:24 <Slereah> Yes.
21:16:29 <Slereah> That's how it is.
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