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09:00:56 <oklopol> tusho: i have openid.
09:01:39 <oklopol> also, i wouldn't say it's bad to require openid, not that hard to sign up for
09:02:30 <oklopol> (especially if the alternative is to require one to register on your blog separately :P)
09:03:46 <oklopol> why didn't that bitch actually link to the blogger.
09:04:07 <oklopol> hmm
09:04:17 <oklopol> linked earlier, perhaps i need to logsearch
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09:17:19 <oklopol> found nothing, darn
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09:19:22 <TheBlunderbuss> Slashdot led me here :o
09:19:53 <AnMaster> TheBlunderbuss, heh?
09:19:58 <AnMaster> we are slashdoted?
09:20:03 <AnMaster> wtf
09:20:03 <TheBlunderbuss> Not directly
09:20:08 <AnMaster> oh?
09:20:20 <TheBlunderbuss> http://developers.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/07/04/229213
09:20:24 <AnMaster> I don't think we can take a slashdotish storm
09:20:53 <AnMaster> TheBlunderbuss, yes I have seen the article yesterday
09:20:56 <TheBlunderbuss> Article about spoof language. Comments containing brainfsck and whitespace. ##brainfuck  mentions this channel in the topic *shrug*
09:21:03 <AnMaster> hah
09:21:12 <AnMaster> TheBlunderbuss, yes this is about all esoteric languages
09:21:21 <AnMaster> from intercal to befunge and everything else too :)
09:21:35 <TheBlunderbuss> Dear God
09:21:57 <AnMaster> TheBlunderbuss, I myself like befunge
09:22:08 <TheBlunderbuss> I like the idea though - some with the whole sort of romantic, industrial sense of trying to keep compiler size down. 240 bytes, shit.
09:22:19 * AnMaster has coded a fast interpreter for it (don't slashdot or digg it or anything, the server can't take that!)
09:22:25 <AnMaster> google for cfunge
09:23:04 <TheBlunderbuss> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Main_Page
09:23:33 <AnMaster> yes that too
09:23:40 <AnMaster> I know of it
09:24:06 <TheBlunderbuss> Just my reference
09:24:26 <Slereah_> I don't want to be slashdotted.
09:24:33 <Slereah_> If I get slashdotted, I'll scream.
09:24:39 <TheBlunderbuss> "Befunge ... [invented] with the goal of being as difficult to compile as possible. "
09:24:53 <TheBlunderbuss> Haha like it's from fiction
09:25:12 <AnMaster> TheBlunderbuss, eh?
09:25:20 <AnMaster> and yes it was invented with that in mind
09:25:37 <AnMaster> I think it could be possible to JIT it though
09:25:43 <AnMaster> but I lack the knowledge to do that
09:25:54 <Slereah_> JIT?
09:26:19 <AnMaster> Slereah_, JIT compile it
09:26:21 <AnMaster> just in time
09:26:22 <TheBlunderbuss> These languages are like they're lifted from science fiction. Ohh I'll have a good time telling my buddy about these :)
09:26:30 <AnMaster> like java does with it's bytecode and such
09:27:00 <Slereah_> Nah, they're lifted from incredibly stupid ideas
09:27:07 -!- deveah has joined.
09:27:22 <deveah> mornin dudes
09:27:28 <Slereah_> "Hey guys, let's make a language based on that obscure computing model"
09:27:43 <Slereah_> "Hey dudes, let's make a language based on a stupid theme"
09:27:45 <AnMaster> deveah, late morning :)
09:27:58 <AnMaster> ooh yes
09:28:03 <deveah> well it's 11:27 for me
09:28:07 <AnMaster> TheBlunderbuss, check taxi on the esolang wiki
09:28:13 <AnMaster> that is a stupid theme one
09:28:15 <AnMaster> XD
09:28:37 <TheBlunderbuss> XD
09:28:40 <TheBlunderbuss> This is great.
09:28:40 <AnMaster> Slereah_, I find Taxi to be one of the best theme languages
09:28:51 <deveah> where's ma brotha when you need him?
09:28:57 <TheBlunderbuss> And also http://esolangs.org/wiki/X-D   a language based on emoticons :D
09:29:15 * AnMaster looks
09:29:26 <Slereah_> Check out Rube, too, it's quite awesome
09:29:54 <AnMaster> oh yes the "warehouse paradigm"
09:29:55 <AnMaster> XD
09:31:14 <TheBlunderbuss> Taxi looks fun!
09:31:32 <Slereah_> Also check out NTCM and Lazy Birds, which are awesome because they're mine </totally non-biased>
09:31:43 <AnMaster> ha
09:31:44 <deveah> you know, altrough programmers are usually hardcore, i find you guys pretty "calm"
09:31:56 <AnMaster> eh?
09:32:00 <Slereah_> What do you mean by hardcore
09:32:35 <AnMaster> Slereah_, ntcm does look interesting
09:32:39 <deveah> verbally violent and capable of doing programming shit noone thought it would be possible
09:32:57 <TheBlunderbuss> Lazybird. Cool :)
09:32:59 <AnMaster> Slereah_, multiple memory segments basically
09:33:35 <Slereah_> Well, I actually did it because I couldn't understand parts of Turing's article
09:33:44 <AnMaster> Slereah_, oh?
09:33:51 <Slereah_> Plus, the challenge is to not use the multiple tapes!
09:34:00 <Slereah_> Since everything can be done on one.
09:34:22 <AnMaster> Slereah_, yes but why did you make it then?
09:34:26 <Slereah_> There's actually features that aren't discussed on the page because they don't work so well or they're OS-specific.
09:34:34 <AnMaster> oh?
09:34:37 <TheBlunderbuss> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Malbrain   two commands!
09:34:40 <Slereah_> Well, I wanted it to be complete.
09:34:49 <AnMaster> yes of course
09:35:05 <AnMaster> you could just do brainfuck + 2 commands to move up/down between the tapes
09:35:13 <Slereah_> Yeah. The Love Machine 9000 (as is its real name) has a musical command.
09:35:28 <Slereah_> Brainfuck is actually not at all a Turing machine.
09:35:42 <AnMaster> Slereah_, oh?
09:35:45 <Slereah_> You can write notes on the tape, and the interpreter would read them with the PC speaker
09:35:58 <Slereah_> But in my interpreter, it uses winsound, so it doesn't work on Linux
09:36:01 <AnMaster> Slereah_, eh read with pc speaker?
09:36:11 <AnMaster> it is a speaker not a mic!
09:36:16 <AnMaster> sure they logically work the same
09:36:24 <AnMaster> but you can't listen to the pc speaker afaik
09:36:24 <Slereah_> It reads the notes on the tape
09:36:31 <Slereah_> Then plays them on the PC Speaker
09:36:35 <AnMaster> and then?
09:36:44 <TheBlunderbuss> Slereah_: doesn't work on Linux !? :O
09:36:48 <Slereah_> and then you enjoy the fine music
09:36:59 <AnMaster> Slereah_, so how is it a programming language?
09:37:03 <Slereah_> winsound is windows specific (It's a python library)
09:37:06 <TheBlunderbuss> pooort!
09:37:10 <AnMaster> you mean the notes have side effects?
09:37:33 <Slereah_> Nah. I just put them there to play the Monkey Island theme on a Turing machine
09:37:40 <Slereah_> I still have the program somewhere.
09:38:24 <AnMaster> is MIDI turing complete?
09:38:27 <AnMaster> I guess not
09:38:33 <Slereah_> Another feature that isn't on the wiki is the 2D option.
09:38:43 <Slereah_> I never could get it to work right.
09:38:50 <AnMaster> Slereah_, this is all NTCM?
09:38:56 <Slereah_> Yes.
09:39:05 <AnMaster> Slereah_, port it to POSIX :)
09:39:18 <Slereah_> I do'nt even know what that is
09:39:32 <AnMaster> POSIX as in FreeBSD, Linux, Solaris and so on
09:39:34 <AnMaster> a standard
09:39:45 <AnMaster> all (modern) *nix are POSIX
09:40:19 <AnMaster> Slereah_, describes stuff like what libc functions should exist, how sockets should work, how the shell should work and so on
09:40:21 <Slereah_> Here's a picture of the 2D version : http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/Hello.png
09:40:40 <Slereah_> I was never able to get it to work correctly
09:40:43 <AnMaster> Slereah_, what does UPP mean there?
09:40:47 <AnMaster> UPP is Swedish for up btw
09:41:01 <AnMaster> upp ner (up down)
09:41:27 <AnMaster> Slereah_, why the extra P as I don't think that is Swedish?
09:41:30 <Slereah_> Almost every instruction is 2 letters long, AnMaster.
09:41:42 <AnMaster> Slereah_, it looks like 3 letters in that screenshot
09:41:42 <Slereah_> Except for the musical notes.
09:41:46 <Slereah_> No.
09:41:53 <Slereah_> It's Up and Print space
09:41:56 <AnMaster> ah
09:42:56 <Slereah_> Here it is without spaces : http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/Hello2.png
09:43:43 <TheBlunderbuss> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Omgrofl
09:43:55 <AnMaster> Slereah_, why is there an odd line on it?
09:44:04 <AnMaster> of white dots
09:44:15 <Slereah_> That's the print screen of Linux.
09:44:26 <AnMaster> TheBlunderbuss, http://esolangs.org/wiki/Perl too
09:44:32 <AnMaster> Slereah_, eh?
09:44:34 <Slereah_> The mouse cursor leaves a trail for some reason
09:44:39 <Slereah_> No idea why
09:44:43 <AnMaster> Slereah_, oh, never seen that on Linux
09:45:11 <AnMaster> Slereah_, what terminal are you using?
09:45:19 <Slereah_> Kubuntu
09:45:21 <AnMaster> I don't see it in either xterm or konsole
09:45:22 <TheBlunderbuss> Perl is esoteric?
09:45:25 <AnMaster> Slereah_, what terminal
09:45:29 <AnMaster> TheBlunderbuss, that is the joke... duh :P
09:45:44 <TheBlunderbuss> Hey it's late. It went over my head.
09:45:59 <TheBlunderbuss> Slereah_: is compiz running?
09:46:19 <AnMaster> Slereah_, I asked what terminal, not what distro btw
09:46:33 <Slereah_> Well I don't know what it means
09:46:39 <AnMaster> TheBlunderbuss, well perl has in some parts an esoteric syntax
09:46:45 -!- deveah has left (?).
09:46:51 <AnMaster> Slereah_, well does it say xterm?
09:46:57 <AnMaster> Slereah_, or konsole?
09:46:59 <AnMaster> or what?
09:47:11 <Slereah_> Konsole, I think
09:47:21 <AnMaster> ah, well I guess what TheBlunderbuss suggested
09:47:23 <Slereah_> I can't check, because I can't access it no more.
09:47:42 <Slereah_> The Linux, that is.
09:48:22 <TheBlunderbuss> ah
09:48:32 <TheBlunderbuss> Was it a recent Kubuntu? Like hardy?
09:48:54 <Slereah_> I think.
09:49:01 <Slereah_> Does it matter?
09:49:07 <Slereah_> It's not like I can go back on it!
09:51:41 <TheBlunderbuss> Yeah, because my compiz suggestion doesn't hold water if you weren't using that version, where it's on by default.  It wreaks all kinds of havok on Wine
09:51:57 <TheBlunderbuss> Can cause other display issues.
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09:56:48 <Slereah_> I'd like to redo the dual booting thing, but my hard drive seems brokin D:
09:57:29 <TheBlunderbuss> :-\
09:57:42 <TheBlunderbuss> MBR?
09:57:52 <Slereah_> wot?
09:57:59 <Slereah_> I don't know computers, dude.
09:58:02 <Slereah_> Remember this.
09:58:15 <TheBlunderbuss> That seems kind of strange!
09:58:19 <Slereah_> Indeed.
09:58:31 <Slereah_> But esolangs can also be done using computation theory!
09:59:06 <TheBlunderbuss> Kinda like a composer who doesn't know how a piano works
09:59:12 <Slereah_> As with the current project : http://esolangs.org/wiki/Limp
10:00:04 <Slereah_> Nothing in my languages use more than computational models and some sort of I/O.
10:00:21 <Slereah_> It can still be a bitch to program though.
10:01:45 <TheBlunderbuss> Here's a good themed http://esolangs.org/wiki/DOG
10:01:57 <TheBlunderbuss> These are great. Yeah my friend will be impressed.
10:02:58 <Slereah_> I only tried one themed language.It is horrible D:
10:02:59 <Slereah_> http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Slereah/Arithmetica
10:03:56 <TheBlunderbuss> just look at all those greek symbols!
10:04:36 <Slereah_> I never could find a way to express priority
10:05:00 <Slereah_> There's no grouping symbol in western mathematics until the 12th century
10:05:26 <TheBlunderbuss> Like a bracket or parenthesis?
10:06:05 <Slereah_> Yeah.
10:06:19 <Slereah_> It was actually a bar over the grouped symbols first.
10:06:27 <Slereah_> Parenthesis are... 15th century?
10:06:29 -!- sebbu has joined.
10:06:30 <Slereah_> I forgot.
10:07:03 <Slereah_> "Parentheses ( ) are "found in rare instances as early as the sixteenth century" (Cajori vol. 1, page 390)."
10:08:26 <Slereah_> Before the Renaissance, western mathematics was pretty shitty on the notation side.
10:08:50 <Slereah_> And before the Arithmetica, there were pretty much no notations at all.
10:08:57 <Slereah_> Everything was in word form.
10:09:15 <AnMaster> Slereah_, you don't need (), you could use RPN
10:10:09 <jamesstanley> Brainfuck is turing-complete, isn't it?
10:10:15 <AnMaster> yes
10:10:17 <AnMaster> why?
10:10:18 <jamesstanley> Thanks
10:10:22 <jamesstanley> Some site said 'Brainfuck is a minimalistic but almost Turing-complete programming language'
10:10:43 <AnMaster> jamesstanley, of course no actual implementation is turing complete
10:10:48 <jamesstanley> Oh?
10:10:50 <jamesstanley> Why not?
10:10:51 <AnMaster> as computers doesn't have infinite memory
10:10:55 <jamesstanley> Oh.
10:10:59 <AnMaster> you need infinite memory to be turing complete
10:11:00 <Slereah_> AnMaster : No I can't.
10:11:05 <Slereah_> Greek math isn't RPN
10:11:06 <AnMaster> which the language itself allows
10:11:10 <jamesstanley> OK
10:11:11 <jamesstanley> Thanks
10:11:31 <Slereah_> Also infinite times
10:11:37 <Slereah_> It can be rough on most computers.
10:11:47 <AnMaster> jamesstanley, any implementation, like any computer, will be a bounded-storage machine
10:11:54 <jamesstanley> Yeah.
10:11:56 <AnMaster> and yes you need infinite time too
10:12:05 <jamesstanley> I thought it was reasonable to call something turing-complete without that, that's all
10:12:22 <AnMaster> jamesstanley, but yes brainfuck is Turing complete
10:12:27 <jamesstanley> Thanks
10:12:36 <Slereah_> I once tried to make a language that had infinite memory without infinite storage.
10:12:42 <Slereah_> Using time travel
10:12:48 <Slereah_> But this was met with failure.
10:13:54 <TheBlunderbuss> Heh I really like this DOG language. Cute!
10:14:06 -!- RobHu has joined.
10:14:09 <Slereah_> Really, when I read those articles on theoretical machines better than Turing machines, I can't help but think that you first need to do somethig really TC D:
10:14:39 <RobHu> What is the name of the esoteric language that consists of coming on IRC and specifying your program (in this channel I think) ?
10:15:47 <Slereah_> IRP
10:15:53 <Slereah_> And it is on #irp
10:16:01 <RobHu> Thank you!
10:16:10 <TheBlunderbuss> What's this now?
10:16:12 <Slereah_> It used to be here, but then got annoying.
10:16:22 <Slereah_> http://esolangs.org/wiki/IRP
10:16:55 <TheBlunderbuss> haha that's awesome
10:17:15 <Slereah_> IRP also offers great games
10:17:20 <Slereah_> Usually involving cakes.
10:17:41 <RobHu> :)
10:17:58 <Slereah_> Self interpreters are also quite easy.
10:18:06 <RobHu> This search all started when someone sent me a link to the Brainfuck interpreter someone recently released that is written in LOLcode
10:18:09 <Slereah_> "Dude, be an IRP interpreter"
10:18:29 <Slereah_> There's Brainfuck interpreters in a bajillio languages
10:18:34 <TheBlunderbuss> There are, like 3 people in there :-\
10:18:42 <TheBlunderbuss> No, exactly!
10:18:47 <Slereah_> Yeah, IRP isn't popular anymore
10:19:02 <Slereah_> Brainfuck is usually the first language implemented on a new esolang
10:19:07 <Slereah_> Or tag systems
10:19:23 <TheBlunderbuss> I see that
10:19:51 <Slereah_> Then you've got nuts like Oerjan who implements Unlambda on INTERCAL D:
10:21:23 <TheBlunderbuss> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainloller   thaaat's cool
10:22:00 <TheBlunderbuss> Kinda like the SecondLife sculpted prims.
10:24:15 <TheBlunderbuss> oh you programmers make me laugh.
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10:29:40 * TheBlunderbuss discovers Quines. Holy cow.
10:30:10 <Slereah_> But remember the noblest quine of all : the cheating quine.
10:30:36 <TheBlunderbuss> the one that merely prints a file containing the source?
10:30:54 <Slereah_> There are a number of ways to cheat.
10:31:09 <Slereah_> You can just use a language that can literaly prints the source code, yes
10:31:20 <Slereah_> The empty string is also a quine in many languages
10:31:43 <Slereah_> And the most cheating quine I've ever seen is the kind where you use error messages.
10:32:22 <TheBlunderbuss> Error message... like "command not recognized" ?
10:32:39 <Slereah_> Well, for instance.
10:32:57 <Slereah_> You write "Command not recognized" as your program, and the interpreter outputs that.
10:33:09 <TheBlunderbuss> exactly what I was thinking
10:33:42 <Slereah_> They have a special name, but I forgot
10:33:44 <TheBlunderbuss> hehe yaaay DOG quine.
10:33:57 <Deewiant> AnMaster: meh, evidently rafb only holds pastes for a day... you wouldn't happen to have any CCBI-breaking TURT code still around?
10:34:07 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I do
10:34:08 <AnMaster> a sec
10:34:51 <AnMaster> http://rafb.net/p/GxNjSm13.html
10:34:54 <Deewiant> I could use the quine but it's a bit too big :-)
10:35:09 <Deewiant> and have you gotten it to work yet?
10:35:19 <Slereah_> http://www.nyx.net/~gthompso/self_kim.txt
10:35:21 <AnMaster> Deewiant, haven't had time to test
10:35:22 <Slereah_> There it is.
10:35:24 <AnMaster> have been so busy
10:35:26 <Deewiant> and thanks for that
10:37:28 <AnMaster> Deewiant, currently configuring 2.6.25 kernel
10:38:14 <AnMaster> and now building it
10:42:18 <AnMaster> Deewiant, note that I expect there are bugs in my TURT too
10:42:28 <AnMaster> Deewiant, however I will be away next week so
10:42:54 <AnMaster> Deewiant, please point out any bugs today :)
10:43:11 <AnMaster> Deewiant, and yes I know bg color is broken in both ccbi and cfunge
10:43:27 <Deewiant> not "broken", just "forgot to implement it" :-P
10:43:31 <TheBlunderbuss> What separates a 2 command language from just binary? Is it because the language is mathematical, and a binary is machine code?
10:43:38 <AnMaster> Deewiant, svg doesn't support it
10:43:45 <Deewiant> just draw a rectangle
10:43:56 <AnMaster> Deewiant, that doesn't fill it all
10:44:04 <Slereah_> TheBlunderbuss : Binary is a way to code it.
10:44:06 <Deewiant> why not
10:44:17 <Slereah_> 1 and 0 don't have any meaning by themselves
10:44:21 <AnMaster> TheBlunderbuss, why not use ternary?
10:44:22 <AnMaster> :D
10:44:25 <Slereah_> They're not commands
10:44:36 <AnMaster> Slereah_, indeed
10:44:42 <AnMaster> Slereah_, you could encode it as graycode too
10:44:50 <Slereah_> Gaycode yourself
10:44:56 <AnMaster> Slereah_, what?
10:45:03 <AnMaster> Slereah_, google for graycode
10:45:05 <AnMaster> it is quite cool
10:45:16 <TheBlunderbuss> I don't follow :-\
10:45:27 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I guess the same size as the viewbox
10:45:35 <Deewiant> of course
10:45:39 <AnMaster> Deewiant, however I think having transparent image is cool
10:45:42 <Slereah_> TheBlunderbuss : In Brainfuck, + alone makes sense.
10:45:46 <Slereah_> It increments a cell.
10:45:59 <Slereah_> in some binary encoding, 1 alone doesn't mean anything.
10:46:02 <AnMaster> Deewiant, actually an idea would be to make that the default I guess
10:46:04 <TheBlunderbuss> Yeah but the computer has to know what to do with it.
10:46:19 <Slereah_> Well, the computer is just a way to implement it.
10:46:23 <Slereah_> Think more abstractly.
10:46:36 <AnMaster> Deewiant, and only if someone used the N instruction then draw the rectangle
10:46:52 <Deewiant> AnMaster: I already did it like that :-)
10:46:59 <AnMaster> Deewiant, doing it too
10:47:05 <TheBlunderbuss> In order to give the computer instruction, it needs binary, right?
10:47:20 <Slereah_> Depends.
10:47:27 <Slereah_> You can build computers without binary.
10:47:43 <Slereah_> hell, back in the days, computing models were meant to be used by people.
10:47:45 <TheBlunderbuss> How do you go from a language to something the computer can understand?
10:47:55 <Slereah_> The computer was a dude that had a pen and some paper
10:48:28 <TheBlunderbuss> A bunch of dudes, for more complex algorithms. "Jane, you take all even numbers, and subtract five. Billy you take Janes numbers and..."
10:48:53 <Slereah_> Plenty of algorithms are used by dudes!
10:49:00 <Slereah_> Division, multiplication.
10:49:11 <Slereah_> But computing models weren't meant to actually compute
10:49:21 <TheBlunderbuss> Getting off topic here.
10:49:28 <Slereah_> They were just theoretical bases to think on what it means to compute
10:49:35 <Slereah_> There's no set topic here.
10:49:40 <TheBlunderbuss> I mean currently.
10:49:50 <Slereah_> Also, as you might now, not all computers are binary.
10:50:00 <TheBlunderbuss> Brainfuck needs a compiler. So what does it compile to?
10:50:12 <Slereah_> Well, machine code in most cases.
10:50:18 <TheBlunderbuss> which consists of?
10:50:30 <Slereah_> Binary. But this is implementation specific.
10:51:12 <Slereah_> You could build for instance a mechanical machine for Brainfuck.
10:51:14 <TheBlunderbuss> A single command in the language could compile into a huge block of 1's and 0's, yes?
10:51:34 <Slereah_> Depends. With BF, you can go by with 3.
10:51:44 <Slereah_> Or 2, if you use reduced versions.
10:52:00 <TheBlunderbuss> Because someone asked me "if you have a 2-command language, why not just use binary?"
10:52:24 <Slereah_> Well, you can. But 2 commands doesn't mean 2 symbols very often.
10:52:43 <Slereah_> I'm not sure there's actually any 2 commands - 2 symbols languages.
10:53:00 <TheBlunderbuss> That's what I told him.
10:53:04 <Slereah_> Because there's the dreaded END OF FILE
10:53:11 <TheBlunderbuss> heh
10:53:36 <Slereah_> Even if you manage to trim it down to two nullary commands, you'll need end of file with 2 commands.
10:53:58 <Slereah_> Lazy K gets by with 3 symbols - 2 functions and no need for end of file
10:54:38 <Slereah_> Iota has 1 functions - 2 symbols and no need for EOF, but I feel it's a little cheaty.
10:54:48 <Slereah_> It has underlying lambdas.
10:55:59 <TheBlunderbuss> Well nooow it's time for bed
10:56:07 <Slereah_> Bai*
10:57:07 <AnMaster> Deewiant, ok now cfunge got it too
10:57:08 <AnMaster> :P
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11:31:21 <AnMaster> Deewiant, the turt quine almost works
11:31:25 <AnMaster> there are still some issues
11:31:36 <AnMaster> odd horizontal lines on top of everything
11:32:38 <Deewiant> I'm in the process of patching Tango so that my code compiles ^_^
11:32:44 <AnMaster> Deewiant, heh
11:32:54 <AnMaster> Deewiant, does the TURT quine work for you?
11:33:01 <Deewiant> well
11:33:04 <Deewiant> given that my code doesn't compile
11:33:06 <AnMaster> http://rafb.net/p/hjXLXn25.html
11:33:08 <AnMaster> :)
11:33:08 <Deewiant> I have no way of knowing
11:33:17 <AnMaster> Deewiant, however that got odd horizontal lines
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11:33:23 <AnMaster> I think the code doesn't end the path when it should
11:33:34 <AnMaster> have to figure out a test case for it
11:33:52 <AnMaster> Deewiant, try to watch it, though it is huge
11:34:00 <AnMaster> err
11:34:02 <AnMaster> that looks wrong
11:34:35 <AnMaster> http://rafb.net/p/zRq0yD49.html WARNING 256 KB
11:35:02 <AnMaster> Deewiant, that is cfunge output
11:35:05 <AnMaster> which is slightly off
11:35:36 <AnMaster> Deewiant, however I got no idea if that is on fingerprint side or not
11:35:52 <AnMaster> I mean is the quine correct
11:37:21 <AnMaster> Deewiant, current output look more like hieroglyphs heh
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12:19:43 <Deewiant> AnMaster: okay, starting to look at your befunge finally...
12:20:08 <Deewiant> first of all, you clear the background to color = 18 and then don't set a pen colour
12:20:40 <Deewiant> so if the default pen colour is black (a reasonable assumption, though undefined) one can't really see much of anything there. :-P
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12:59:07 <AnMaster> Deewiant, hm
12:59:15 <AnMaster> Deewiant, yes agree, fixed version a sec
12:59:29 <AnMaster> Deewiant, http://rafb.net/p/9bpxzO20.html
12:59:32 <AnMaster> that is better
12:59:38 <AnMaster> I did that myself some hours ago
13:00:44 <AnMaster> um wait
13:00:52 <AnMaster> is it RBG or RGB?
13:01:05 <AnMaster> ah
13:01:15 <AnMaster> then the line saying "green tint" should say "blue tint"
13:03:00 <AnMaster> http://rafb.net/p/Gs1Ywl27.html
13:03:01 <AnMaster> better?
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13:16:38 <AnMaster> hrrm how to rewrite this as non-recursive: http://rafb.net/p/G3hrFO24.html
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13:25:52 <Slereah_> what does static void mean?
13:25:57 <Slereah_> As opposed to void
13:26:28 <AnMaster> Slereah_, static means local to file
13:40:55 <oklopol> what language?
13:43:20 <Slereah_> I assume C or something.
13:43:30 <Slereah_> But I am utterly terrible at guessing D:
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14:35:02 <Deewiant> whee, fixed TURT
14:37:43 <Slereah_> Deewiant lieks turtles.
14:38:09 <Deewiant> the quine does indeed seem to result in a bunch of lines
14:39:58 <Slereah_> *series of tubes
14:40:46 <AnMaster> Deewiant, nice you fixed it, now you are conforming again (more or less)
14:41:03 <Deewiant> and the output in general is incorrect, the letters don't look like in the example
14:41:04 <AnMaster> as for the lines, not sure of the cause, I guess either the quine assumes a off by one error in paths, or we do?
14:41:21 <AnMaster> yes that is odd
14:41:47 <Deewiant> "more or less"? :-P
14:42:19 <AnMaster> Deewiant, there may be other bugs of course
14:42:34 <Deewiant> always there may be
14:42:34 <AnMaster> for example my test program doesn't test everything that is possible to test
14:42:46 <Deewiant> but as long as there aren't, we're good. ;-)
14:43:02 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I suspect there may be an error when doing "draw a line, pen up, *one* B or F instruction, pen down, print"
14:43:06 <oklopol> you noobs, my programs never have bugs
14:43:06 <Deewiant> of course not, SOCK for instance would run for an hour if you tried to test every combination
14:43:09 <AnMaster> it seems to miss the dot then
14:43:30 <Deewiant> do you have an example ready
14:44:22 <AnMaster> Deewiant, not ready no
14:44:31 <AnMaster> it was something I noted and need to write a proper test for
14:45:16 <AnMaster> anyway I think I fixed that bug myself
14:45:18 <AnMaster> not sure
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14:58:39 <pikhq> Sweet. INTERCAL on /.
15:00:23 <Slereah_> It brought us some newbies!
15:01:51 <pikhq> Huh.
15:02:10 <pikhq> Someone new I can shove Dimensifuck on, perhaps? :p
15:02:34 <Deewiant> AnMaster: haha, fixed that bug and now the quine looks even worse
15:02:49 <AnMaster> Deewiant, what was the issue with that bug
15:02:54 <AnMaster> I have been too busy now
15:03:06 <AnMaster> Deewiant, so tell me about it to save me some work :D
15:03:07 <Deewiant> to be honest I'm not sure
15:03:10 <Deewiant> what I did was
15:03:11 <Deewiant> if (penDown || (pic.path && pic.path.penDown)) {
15:03:19 <Deewiant> I thought that the latter part of the || was redundant
15:03:21 <Deewiant> so I removed it
15:03:23 <Deewiant> and it fixed that
15:03:25 <Deewiant> but broke the quine
15:03:33 <Deewiant> so evidently it wasn't redundant
15:03:36 <AnMaster> Deewiant, got a test program?
15:03:44 <Deewiant> "TRUT"4(n0H1Pf1+:*::**1-Naa*F0PaF1PI@
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15:04:10 <Deewiant> now I need to figure out why it isn't redundant
15:04:30 <AnMaster> Deewiant, interesting tell me when you find out, our code is quite similar
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15:14:45 <Deewiant> muah, everything works now, quine included
15:17:39 <Deewiant> although the quine is a bit buggy, as I suspected
15:17:47 <Deewiant> because !Befunge doesn't implement the dots
15:18:03 <Deewiant> so the correct result of the quine looks quite dotty
15:18:49 <Deewiant> AnMaster: but yeah, the logic regarding addPath() in move() is wrong
15:19:06 <Deewiant> the correct way to do it is to remove the latter part of the || mentioned above
15:19:20 <Deewiant> and then add the following at the beginning of move()
15:19:22 <Deewiant> "TRUT"4(                      11x
15:19:22 <Deewiant> a7+3*5*N 0C                   11x>  ; Clear with blue. Set pen to black      ;
15:19:22 <Deewiant> 0H 1P                         11x>  ; Set direction, pen down.               ;
15:19:22 <Deewiant> 52*1-F 0P 2F 1P 53*1-F        11x>  ; Draw first line with a gap in it.      ;
15:19:25 <Deewiant> well
15:19:26 <Deewiant> not that
15:19:35 <Deewiant> if (penDown && movedWithoutDraw)
15:19:35 <Deewiant> pic.addPath(p, false, 0);
15:19:37 <Deewiant> that
15:19:43 <AnMaster> hm?
15:20:06 <Deewiant> that's the needed fix to make everything work
15:22:04 <AnMaster> Deewiant, where in the code?
15:22:16 <Deewiant> what I said
15:22:22 <Deewiant> which part did you not get :-P
15:22:34 <AnMaster> Deewiant, is this below the line:
15:22:36 <AnMaster> "// a -> ... -> z is equivalent to a -> z if not drawing"
15:22:37 <AnMaster> ?
15:22:42 <Deewiant> yes
15:23:09 <AnMaster> Deewiant, penDown == pic.penDown or turt.penDown?
15:23:29 <Deewiant> 2008-07-05 17:03:10 ( Deewiant) IIif (penDown || (pic.path && pic.path.penDown)) {
15:23:31 <AnMaster> also
15:23:33 <Deewiant> 2008-07-05 17:19:05 ( Deewiant) the correct way to do it is to remove the latter part of the || mentioned above
15:23:33 <AnMaster> 0 can't be right
15:23:38 <AnMaster> you drop color
15:23:51 <Deewiant> it's a pen-up move
15:23:53 <Deewiant> so color is irrelevant
15:26:03 <AnMaster> Deewiant, hm
15:27:18 <AnMaster> Deewiant, oh mycology got an error
15:27:23 <AnMaster> it sets background color to 0x1
15:27:38 <pikhq> kmain[flimble, booble, babble]
15:27:41 <Deewiant> ?
15:27:57 <AnMaster> Deewiant, so yes it shows two circles in mycology's test of TURT
15:28:01 <AnMaster> however.. they are not visible
15:28:07 <AnMaster> against the black background
15:28:09 <Deewiant> oh, right
15:28:13 <Deewiant> true
15:28:16 <Deewiant> in fact, I was going to ask you
15:28:25 <Deewiant> do you feel like writing a proper mycology test for TURT
15:28:44 <Deewiant> don't worry about making it tight enough to fit where it needs to, I can do that
15:29:20 <AnMaster> hm
15:29:42 <Deewiant> since I know you're averse to writing compact Befunge ;-)
15:29:46 <AnMaster> Deewiant, yes maybe, however probably at end of next week, I'm going to Norway in a few days and no computer or internet
15:29:59 <Deewiant> no worries, I'm in no hurry
15:30:09 <pikhq> AnMaster, you should totally meet Oerjan while you're there.
15:30:14 <pikhq> :p
15:30:16 <AnMaster> pikhq, Oslo?
15:30:38 <pikhq> Don't remember where he is in Norway.
15:30:52 <AnMaster> Deewiant, if (penDown && movedWithoutDraw) <-- that breaks
15:31:03 <Deewiant> why
15:31:06 <AnMaster> Deewiant, try my test case I made before
15:31:09 <Deewiant> I did
15:31:11 <Deewiant> and it works fine
15:31:42 <AnMaster> it doesn't for me hrrm
15:31:58 <AnMaster> it goes wrong when first changing color
15:32:13 <AnMaster> Deewiant, or do you mean in addition to current test case
15:32:29 <Deewiant> ?
15:33:23 <Deewiant> for the mycology thing? I'd rather it be replaced completely
15:33:41 <Deewiant> for all the rest? CCBI now works on all inputs I've tried, including your test case, the quine, and my little one-liner
15:34:27 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I mean your D code
15:34:32 <AnMaster> err
15:34:38 <AnMaster> can you just post your move function in your D code?
15:34:50 <AnMaster> because I think I misinterpreted it
15:34:53 <Deewiant> you only need to do two changes, what's so hard >_<
15:34:59 <AnMaster> Deewiant, that it doesn't work
15:35:05 <Deewiant> :-P
15:35:14 <Deewiant> at the very beginning of move()
15:35:15 <pikhq> I think Oerjan is in Trondheim, actually.
15:35:19 <pikhq> (He'll have to confirm that)
15:35:24 <Deewiant> add
15:35:25 <Deewiant> if (penDown && movedWithoutDraw)
15:35:25 <Deewiant> pic.addPath(p, false, 0);
15:35:29 <Deewiant> before everything else, that is
15:35:37 <Deewiant> then, leave everything else as is
15:35:42 <Deewiant> but change the last if
15:35:42 <AnMaster> Deewiant, oh not to replace the similar lines just below "// a -> ... -> z is equivalent to a -> z if not drawing"?
15:35:46 <Deewiant> so that it's only if (penDown)
15:35:50 <Deewiant> not if (penDown || foo)
15:36:22 <Deewiant> AnMaster: parse failed; invalid sentence
15:37:50 <AnMaster> ah that works
15:38:17 <Deewiant> of course it does, I did it ;-)
15:39:34 <AnMaster> hah
15:39:49 <Deewiant> with the difference that this time I actually thought it through instead of just writing code ;-P
15:40:19 <AnMaster> Deewiant, anyway it is hard to properly test TURT
15:40:29 <Deewiant> of course one can't test all possibilities
15:40:37 <AnMaster> Deewiant, you couldn't test all the bugs of the original code in one run
15:40:39 <Deewiant> but you can do a lot better than what mycology currently does :-)
15:40:45 <Deewiant> sure you could, why not
15:41:22 <Deewiant> (and if not, it doesn't necessarily matter)
15:41:23 <AnMaster> no as one of them in your original code needed to happen at the end (the missing dot) while another in my code only happened if there was no dot at the end
15:42:11 <Deewiant> yeah, one can't test every single case
15:42:15 <Deewiant> so it doesn't matter
15:42:26 <Deewiant> just try to be reasonably exhaustive
15:42:34 <AnMaster> ok
15:43:14 <Deewiant> draw something, then clear it, then draw some more (intersecting paths, stuff like making sure that a->b->c means that the color at b is the color of b->c), put a couple of dots
15:43:24 <Deewiant> and query the heading/position reasonably often to see if it's correct
15:43:35 <Deewiant> and whatever else there was
15:43:35 <AnMaster> Deewiant, anyway you already do some tests of what the current functions return, I wouldn't replace that bit, I would just after that start with N to clear and draw some test picture
15:43:42 <AnMaster> to test that they draw correctly
15:43:50 <Deewiant> well, not really
15:43:54 <AnMaster> no?
15:44:06 <AnMaster> I did get a BAD for return value from querypen
15:44:14 <Deewiant> IIRC the current thing tests only how many values are popped
15:44:22 <Deewiant> hmm
15:44:29 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well it tests that querypen returns what is expected
15:44:32 <Deewiant> it could even be that it depends on some defaults
15:44:33 <AnMaster> up/down I mean
15:44:35 <Deewiant> which aren't specced
15:44:39 <AnMaster> hah
15:44:39 <Deewiant> i.e. does the pen start up/down
15:44:45 <Deewiant> what's the pen colour by default
15:44:46 <AnMaster> mine starts up
15:44:47 <Deewiant> stuff like that
15:44:59 <Deewiant> and it probably used to start down? ;-)
15:45:10 <Deewiant> but yeah, stuff like that shouldn't be tested
15:45:15 <AnMaster> no I put a ! too much in a place
15:45:15 <Deewiant> except as UNDEFs
15:45:23 <AnMaster> so I think it was just pure wrong
15:45:35 <AnMaster> I returned opposite state compared to actual pen state
15:45:48 <Deewiant> heh
15:46:05 <Deewiant> but anyhoo, that's something that probably shouldn't be BAD with the current tests
15:46:07 <AnMaster> Deewiant, anyway if it is supposed to be able to drive a real turtle bot (as the specs suggests) I don't see how it can handle pen color, or even clear instruction
15:46:14 <AnMaster> also what is the display instruction supposed to do?
15:46:18 <Deewiant> it can ignore them
15:46:26 <Deewiant> just like CCBI ignores the display instruction ;-)
15:46:37 <AnMaster> well what is display *supposed* to do=
15:46:40 <Deewiant> it's supposed to display the picture
15:46:46 <Deewiant> pretty obvious IMHO :-P
15:46:54 <Deewiant> but I'm not going to link an SVG viewer into CCBI
15:47:05 <Deewiant> or roll my own, even :-P
15:47:18 <AnMaster> haha
15:48:59 <Deewiant> of course that's not necessary
15:49:04 <Deewiant> since it's only lines and dots
15:49:14 <Deewiant> it would probably be fairly simple to draw it in OpenGL, say
15:49:22 <Deewiant> but I can't be bothered, and hence CCBI just ignores it
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15:50:17 <AnMaster> yeah that is allowed iirc
15:50:29 <Deewiant> yes, it says "if possible" or something like that
15:50:37 <AnMaster> indeed
15:50:38 <AnMaster> however
15:50:48 <AnMaster> it doesn't say "if possible" for pen colour or clear iirc
15:51:01 <AnMaster> yet it says "used to drive a real turtle bot"
15:51:16 <Deewiant> it could be used to drive a real turtle bot
15:51:23 <Deewiant> just don't have the bot move until it gets I
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15:51:30 <Deewiant> that handles clear
15:51:47 <AnMaster> Deewiant, can't you clear and then run I again?
15:51:49 <Deewiant> and as for pen colour, beats me, I haven't even seen a turtle bot that can draw something :-)
15:52:01 <Deewiant> hmm, what do you mean?
15:52:03 <AnMaster> I guess it want interpreter to pause with a message like: "Please change the pen to a green one with 1% red tint in" or "Please replace paper with a slightly yellowish one"
15:52:14 <Deewiant> that works :-D
15:53:43 <AnMaster> of course after that it would say "press any key to continue"
15:53:57 <AnMaster> "no not the any key, I mean you can choose a key on your own"
15:55:30 <AnMaster> Deewiant, anyway if you remove the dots from the quine output then the image gets a lot smaller (from 254K to 134K)
15:55:36 <AnMaster> and it looks quite ok
15:55:46 <AnMaster> though I would never use that font myself anywhere
15:56:08 <Deewiant> yes, the dots take much space
15:56:23 <AnMaster> svg is really quite a space wasting format
15:56:37 <Deewiant> gzipping it probably saves much
15:56:42 <Deewiant> and really, it depends on the situation
15:56:56 <Deewiant> <rect x="0" y="0" width="12345" height="12345"/>
15:57:07 <AnMaster> 27K     tmp.gz
15:57:08 <AnMaster> yep
15:57:15 <AnMaster> but you need to ungzip it
15:57:15 <Deewiant> put that in a bitmap and watch it grow :-)
15:57:28 <Deewiant> oh noes, teh CPU-waste!!
15:57:34 <AnMaster> Deewiant, not an issue
15:57:35 <AnMaster> however
15:57:44 <AnMaster> can browsers view gzipped ones
15:57:46 <AnMaster> just like that?
15:58:03 <AnMaster> Deewiant, ?
15:58:05 <Deewiant> HTTP supports compression
15:58:09 <AnMaster> ah true
15:58:09 <Deewiant> and that uses gzip
16:06:05 <AnMaster> Deewiant, do you dare open this http://kuonet.org/~anmaster/tmp/tquine_result.svg ?
16:06:12 <AnMaster> it is edited to remove the dots
16:06:18 <AnMaster> wtf
16:06:27 <AnMaster> Deewiant, firefox fails at displaying it
16:06:29 <Deewiant> I checked it myself without the dots locally
16:06:36 <Deewiant> and firefox displayed it fine here :-)
16:06:42 <Deewiant> didn't check that one of yours though
16:06:46 <AnMaster> Deewiant, does it display my link though
16:06:51 <AnMaster> inkscape does
16:07:35 <Deewiant> nope, doesn't
16:07:43 <AnMaster> and so does konqueror if you are prepared to wait
16:07:52 <AnMaster> Deewiant, how does my image differ from yours? scale?
16:08:00 <Deewiant> I don't see a thing
16:08:01 <Deewiant> it's all white
16:08:18 <AnMaster> Deewiant, same, and firefox only displays dots from my test code
16:08:23 <AnMaster> not the lines
16:08:31 <AnMaster> while inkscape displays lines too
16:08:35 <AnMaster> and so does konq
16:08:39 <Deewiant> you're doing it wrong :-P
16:08:43 <Deewiant> or something
16:08:44 <AnMaster> Deewiant, no I think firefox is
16:08:58 <AnMaster> let me save resave it in inkscape
16:09:00 <Deewiant> it's possible that the "miter-join" or whatever is messing it up
16:09:10 <AnMaster> Deewiant, that just tells corner style
16:09:13 <Deewiant> or then the "width" and "height" specifiers, what's up with those
16:09:22 <Deewiant> AnMaster: yes, but if it doesn't support it then boom, no?
16:09:45 <AnMaster> Deewiant, it handles it as inkscape does that one by default
16:10:00 <AnMaster> Deewiant, anyway the width/height were added by first resave in inkscape to remove the dots
16:10:33 <AnMaster> and it fails from a full resave in inkscape too
16:10:49 <AnMaster> Deewiant, how does the source differ from yours in the image file?
16:10:54 <AnMaster> scale?
16:11:01 <AnMaster> because that is only difference I can think of
16:11:09 <Deewiant> what source differ from what in what
16:11:28 <AnMaster> the output of ccbi for tquine
16:11:33 <AnMaster> compared with my output
16:11:41 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I don't have your last version with fixed TURT after all
16:12:29 <AnMaster> Deewiant, ?
16:12:34 <Deewiant> stroke-linejoin is present in yours, not in mine
16:12:37 <Deewiant> I don't have a doctype
16:12:42 <Deewiant> I don't have id, width, height
16:12:47 <Deewiant> I don't have standalone="no"
16:13:00 <Deewiant> beyond that, beats me
16:13:17 <Deewiant> ah, one thing
16:13:19 <Deewiant> I don't use style="", I use attributes directly
16:13:28 <Deewiant> fill="none" instead of style="fill:none"
16:13:52 <AnMaster> xmlns ?
16:14:05 <Deewiant> same
16:14:20 <AnMaster> so you have it?
16:14:24 <AnMaster> k
16:15:25 <AnMaster> Deewiant, anyway changing that didn't help either
16:15:31 <AnMaster> Deewiant, does the viewbox or the numbers differ?
16:18:00 <Deewiant> yes, they do
16:18:05 <Deewiant> viewBox="-0.0002 -0.0002 0.0833 0.0244"
16:18:06 <Deewiant> versus
16:18:13 <AnMaster> ?
16:18:17 <Deewiant> viewBox="-.0011 -.0011 .0851 .0262"
16:18:33 <AnMaster> Deewiant, that is interesting.
16:18:56 <AnMaster> and I can't explain it
16:19:11 <AnMaster> Deewiant, however the image generated is correct in inkscape and konqueror
16:19:15 <AnMaster> so I blame firefox
16:19:24 <AnMaster> also it validates
16:19:35 <AnMaster> Deewiant, does the numbers for the path also differ btw?
16:19:49 <AnMaster> my guess why they differ, long double vs. double
16:19:50 <Deewiant> I'm not going to go through the whole path >_<
16:19:53 <AnMaster> I just use double
16:20:02 <AnMaster> Deewiant, ok look at the first 10 numbers or so?
16:20:05 <AnMaster> and then the last few
16:20:11 <AnMaster> just to see if the differ in either place
16:20:18 <Deewiant> the first line looks similar to me
16:20:25 <AnMaster> Deewiant, last one?
16:20:39 <Deewiant> yep
16:20:49 <AnMaster> how similar?
16:21:20 <Deewiant> same
16:21:23 <Deewiant> as far as I can tell
16:22:27 <AnMaster> Deewiant, using long double a few numbers change in the last decimal near the middle, nothing that could cause that much difference
16:22:44 <Deewiant> one thing is, do you use padding or not
16:22:56 <AnMaster> I do
16:23:00 <AnMaster> always the same padding
16:23:02 <Deewiant> because that's a difference of 10 right there
16:23:04 <AnMaster> even if the image is large
16:23:11 <Deewiant> hmm
16:23:17 <AnMaster> while you only use it if it is small iirc
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16:23:22 <Deewiant> no, I always use it
16:23:40 <AnMaster> anyway that padding translates to 0.0010
16:23:42 <Deewiant> it only matters if the image is small
16:23:45 <AnMaster> or is it
16:23:46 <Deewiant> yep
16:23:46 <AnMaster> anyway that padding translates to 0.00010
16:23:50 <Deewiant> nope
16:23:53 <AnMaster> right
16:23:58 <Deewiant> 10 is 0.0010
16:24:04 <Deewiant> at least in my program :-P
16:24:08 <AnMaster> same here
16:24:28 <AnMaster> Deewiant, and the path formatting looks the same for my program?
16:24:36 <AnMaster> I mean, M and L in the same places?
16:24:43 <Deewiant> like said
16:24:48 <Deewiant> the first and the last line looked similar to me
16:24:52 <AnMaster> because "create new path segment" was one bug I fixed
16:25:20 <AnMaster> Deewiant, right, however, not exactly the same numbers in them?
16:25:32 <Deewiant> similar == I can't tell the difference
16:25:44 <Deewiant> but looking at a line with 200 numbers doesn't mean they're the same
16:25:48 <Deewiant> hence similar, not same
16:25:55 <Deewiant> hmm, that was a bad sentence
16:25:58 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well upload your pic then
16:26:05 <AnMaster> so I can diff it
16:26:11 <AnMaster> with the power of *nix tools!
16:26:11 <AnMaster> ;P
16:26:27 <Deewiant> diff won't help you much
16:26:32 <AnMaster> no?
16:26:32 <Deewiant> due to whitespace differences and such
16:26:33 <Deewiant> :-P
16:26:37 <AnMaster> Deewiant, we have that?
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16:27:15 <tusho> hi ais523
16:27:15 <Deewiant> yes
16:27:17 <AnMaster> Deewiant, and yes kompare can be set to ignore whitespace differences
16:27:20 <AnMaster> same for diff
16:27:40 <Deewiant> whatever, I'll upload it in a minute
16:27:43 <AnMaster> thanks
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16:28:01 <AnMaster> tusho, ais isn't here
16:28:08 <tusho> AnMaster: yes, I noticed...
16:28:17 <tusho> but it's a safe bet just to get it typed and hit enter
16:28:20 <tusho> otherwise i'd have to check
16:28:22 <tusho> and therefore never win
16:28:24 <AnMaster> tusho, again it took about 30 seconds from when you connected :/
16:28:29 <AnMaster> Deewiant, hm how is the constant PI defined in D?
16:28:37 <tusho> AnMaster: yes, that's my client
16:28:42 <tusho> still, we have a good way of measuring it now
16:28:45 <AnMaster> I guess depending on how exact it is...
16:28:48 <tusho> our clients log, to the second, when we press enter
16:29:32 <AnMaster> Deewiant, 3.14159265358979323846 for M_PI here (defined in /usr/include/gentoo-multilib/amd64/math.h)
16:30:06 <tusho> psht, my M_PI contains every digit
16:30:21 <AnMaster> Deewiant, also does casts of floats to ints in D round or truncate?
16:31:15 <Deewiant> const real PI         = 0x1.921fb54442d1846ap+1L;
16:31:17 <Deewiant> truncate
16:31:20 <tusho> 01:32:39 <deveah> verbally violent and capable of doing programming shit noone thought it would be possible
16:31:24 <tusho> this is called 'elitist irc assholes'
16:31:27 <Deewiant> I'm going to upload, post a link, and then go eat
16:31:29 <tusho> and they can't program worth shit
16:31:31 <AnMaster> Deewiant, eh that one is slightly crazy
16:31:34 <AnMaster> it is in hex
16:31:39 <Deewiant> yes, for maximum accuracy
16:31:42 <AnMaster> for a float?
16:31:44 <AnMaster> hrrm
16:32:09 <AnMaster> tusho, hah agree
16:32:16 <Deewiant> iki.fi/deewiant/CCBI_TURT.svg
16:32:17 <Deewiant> and I'm gone ->
16:32:26 <tusho> Deewiant: question
16:32:30 <tusho> why do finnish people put ->
16:32:33 <tusho> after their 'bye' messages
16:32:37 <tusho> oklopol does it too
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16:34:43 <tusho> 01:36:44 <TheBlunderbuss> Slereah_: doesn't work on Linux !? :O
16:34:52 <tusho> i could probably guess you came from slashdot if I hadn't read it earlier
16:34:52 <tusho> :)
16:35:27 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I notice you do floating point now?
16:38:09 <oklopol> tusho: because it's the superior way to say you're gone
16:38:26 <tusho> oklopol: but why only fins
16:38:47 <oklopol> didn't know it was only finns
16:39:05 <oklopol> i guess we're the superior race then?
16:39:10 <tusho> true
16:40:42 <Deewiant> I was going to say something like that
16:41:28 <Deewiant> but yeah, it's quick and to the point, if you put "->" somewhere it means the next thing you do after pressing enter is leave
16:42:01 <Deewiant> AnMaster: where do you see that?
16:42:19 <AnMaster> M2e-4,0 L2e-4,2e-4 M4e-4,0 L4e-4,2e-4 M.0014,1e-4 L.001,1e-4 L.0012,1e-4 L.0012,7e-4 M.0018,3e-4 L.0021,6e-4
16:42:22 <AnMaster> in your output
16:42:28 <Deewiant> and where does that imply floating point
16:42:30 <AnMaster> doesn't look like fixed point at all
16:42:37 <Deewiant> it is
16:42:37 <AnMaster> Deewiant, oh so why is it formatted like that then?
16:42:42 <AnMaster> %d wouldn't do it
16:42:49 <Deewiant> because I format it manually so that it takes minimal space
16:43:29 <Deewiant> be warned, though: firefox has an open bug that scientific notation doesn't work
16:44:09 <AnMaster> Deewiant, ok...
16:44:28 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well I think whatever makes cfunge output fail in firefox is also a firefox bug
16:44:36 <AnMaster> same happens for the paths in my simple test case
16:44:38 <Deewiant> certainly possible
16:44:47 <Deewiant> what version do you have
16:44:54 <AnMaster> Deewiant, it works in konqueror, safari, opera, inkscape
16:45:01 <AnMaster> Deewiant, firefox 2.0.14
16:45:11 <Deewiant> ah, that would explain
16:45:12 <AnMaster> or something thing that, could be .15 I guess
16:45:15 <Deewiant> 2.0's SVG support is poor
16:45:18 <Deewiant> I have 3.0
16:45:29 <AnMaster> Deewiant, and still don't see it?
16:45:41 <Deewiant> well, your simple test case worked fine
16:45:45 <Deewiant> but the quine doesn't
16:45:46 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well ccbi tquine crashes firefox
16:45:56 <Deewiant> yes, that's because of the scientific notation
16:46:02 <Deewiant> without it it works fine
16:46:11 <AnMaster> that shouldn't crash however
16:46:12 <Deewiant> but I chose to use it anyway
16:46:21 <Deewiant> true, but it does
16:46:40 <Deewiant> and just turning off the scientific notation makes it work fine :-)
16:47:07 <AnMaster> Deewiant, anyway if you select to ever update the mycology results page remember that firefox should not be used to check cfunge, instead use inkscape or such
16:47:20 <AnMaster> or any of the other browsers I mentioned
16:48:48 <AnMaster> Deewiant, you said you had no doctype? in the file you uploaded there is a doctype
16:48:53 <AnMaster> "<?xml version="1.0" encoding="UTF-8"?><!DOCTYPE svg PUBLIC "-//W3C//DTD SVG 1.1//EN" "http://www.w3.org/Graphics/SVG/1.1/DTD/svg11.dtd">"
16:48:56 <AnMaster> is first line
16:49:14 <Deewiant> you really don't need to inform me about these things, I do know you know :-)
16:49:16 <Deewiant> I added it
16:49:21 <AnMaster> aha
16:49:29 <AnMaster> to make the validator warning shut up?
16:49:38 <Deewiant> no
16:49:40 <Deewiant> where's the validator
16:49:46 <AnMaster> http://validator.w3.org/
16:49:49 <AnMaster> it can do svg too
16:49:59 <Deewiant> I just checked the SVG spec and it seemed that doctype is used
16:50:54 <Deewiant> hmm, wrong doctype actually
16:51:04 <AnMaster> oh?
16:51:53 <AnMaster> Deewiant, what is the correct doctype for tiny then?
16:52:10 <Deewiant> http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/REC-SVGMobile-20030114/#sec-conformance
16:52:32 <AnMaster> ah wait tiny doesn't support style sheets
16:52:40 <AnMaster> oh well I will change to use full
16:52:43 <Deewiant> there we go, valid tiny
16:52:43 <AnMaster> nothing wrong in that
16:53:17 <Deewiant> and sure it does
16:53:20 <Deewiant> doesn't it?
16:53:27 <AnMaster> I tried:
16:53:29 <AnMaster> "Error  Line 12, Column 12: there is no attribute "style".
16:53:29 <AnMaster> <path style="fill:none;stroke:#000000;stroke-width:0.00005px;stroke-linecap:roun"
16:53:57 <Deewiant> validator gives you that?
16:53:58 <Deewiant> weird
16:53:59 <Deewiant> http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/REC-SVGMobile-20030114/#sec-styind
16:54:09 <Deewiant> http://www.w3.org/TR/2003/REC-SVGMobile-20030114/#sec-styling
16:54:34 <AnMaster> Deewiant, it says it isn't valid for <path>
16:54:43 <Deewiant> ah
17:00:51 <Deewiant> hmm
17:01:42 <Deewiant> one could save potentially a lot of space by using a class="p" instead of repeating stroke-width &c. in every <path>
17:01:49 <Deewiant> but it's not Tiny
17:01:56 -!- Hiato has quit ("Leaving.").
17:02:46 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well I would need to define the class in a <style> or?
17:02:52 <Deewiant> yes
17:03:03 <AnMaster> style as in xhtml?
17:03:06 <AnMaster> or something special?
17:03:18 <Deewiant> but I'm wondering if it's worth it to move away from Tiny for that
17:03:22 -!- Judofyr has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
17:03:36 <AnMaster> Deewiant, what do you gain with tiny?
17:03:44 -!- Judofyr has joined.
17:04:00 <Deewiant> the ability to display the images on cell phones :-P
17:04:07 <AnMaster> hah
17:04:19 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I doubt one could display the tquine output anyway
17:04:29 <AnMaster> konq can do it after several seconds
17:07:59 <AnMaster> <style type="text/css" media="all">
17:07:59 <AnMaster> path {fill:none;stroke-width:0.00005px;stroke-linecap:round;stroke-linejoin:miter}
17:07:59 <AnMaster> </style>
17:08:02 <AnMaster> that should work right?
17:08:11 <Deewiant> no
17:08:15 <AnMaster> Deewiant, no?
17:08:17 <Deewiant> it needs to be in <defs>
17:08:20 <Deewiant> and it needs to be CDATA
17:08:21 <AnMaster> oh
17:08:27 <tusho> AnMaster: genx
17:08:28 <tusho> :p
17:08:28 <Deewiant> and I'm not sure about the media
17:08:48 <AnMaster> tusho, genx doesn't know how a svg is built
17:08:55 <AnMaster> tusho, so that won't help at all for this
17:09:13 <tusho> AnMaster: genx knows how xml is built
17:09:14 <tusho> e.g. cdata
17:09:18 <Deewiant> I'm using Tango's XML writer
17:09:19 <Slereah_> One of the old style negation symbol looks in between ~ and the infinity symbol
17:09:21 <Deewiant> surprisingly handy
17:09:24 <Slereah_> Heh.
17:09:53 <tusho> Deewiant: yeah, genx is basically that for c
17:09:57 <AnMaster> Deewiant, just <defs><style>?
17:10:04 <Deewiant> yep
17:10:05 <AnMaster> and then cdata stuff and such
17:10:08 <AnMaster> Deewiant, no media?
17:10:15 <oklopol> o
17:10:18 <Deewiant> I don't know
17:11:19 <tusho> oklopol: k
17:14:24 <AnMaster> Deewiant, your N doesn't reset min/max does it?
17:14:26 <AnMaster> it should
17:14:41 <Deewiant> hmm, should it
17:14:50 <AnMaster> Deewiant, yes for a new drawing
17:14:50 <Deewiant> I suppose it should
17:14:53 <AnMaster> could be lots smaller
17:15:19 <Deewiant> good call, thanks
17:28:32 <Slereah_> What the fuck Gödel.
17:28:37 <Slereah_> A -> F(x)
17:28:40 <Slereah_> What does this mean!
17:28:49 <Slereah_> How can you imply a number!
17:29:20 <Slereah_> Owait, second kind.
17:29:38 <Slereah_> But for some reason, used in the "smallest x such that F(x) = 0"
17:29:40 <Slereah_> Aaaaargh
17:30:28 <Slereah_> Or is it... Something else?
17:30:37 <Slereah_> Maybe smallest x such that it is true!
17:30:42 <Slereah_> Let us check
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17:31:43 <Slereah_> It indeed seems to be that
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17:41:17 <AnMaster> Deewiant, http://img374.imageshack.us/img374/9973/safariqi5.png
17:41:22 <AnMaster> Deewiant, from someone on another channel
17:41:29 <AnMaster> so I'd say firefox is wrong
17:41:32 <AnMaster> when it can't render it
17:45:04 <tusho> lol@safari on windowds
17:45:06 <tusho> *windows
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17:46:06 <AnMaster> tusho, agree
17:46:07 <AnMaster> but
17:46:13 <AnMaster> point is that firefox is wrong
17:46:14 <AnMaster> I  et
17:46:15 <AnMaster> bet*
17:46:16 <tusho> yeah
17:46:31 <olsner> opera seems to render it like safari
17:46:34 <tusho> apple software sucks on iwndows
17:46:35 <AnMaster> so someone should file a bug, but I don't plan to try to make a minimal test case
17:46:46 <AnMaster> olsner, reference rending at http://kuonet.org/~anmaster/tmp/tquine_result.png
17:46:48 <Deewiant> or firefox is right and all the others have better error-correcting heuristics ;-)
17:47:01 <tusho> Deewiant: that seems likely, actually
17:47:09 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well that *is* a posibility, however w3c validator likes it
17:47:10 <AnMaster> so...
17:47:11 <Deewiant> it's been known to happen (though I can't think of an example offhand)
17:47:43 <AnMaster> tusho, also opening it and then resaving it in inkscape doesn't help
17:47:56 <AnMaster> tusho, meaning inkscape also cause invalid svg image?
17:47:58 <olsner> AnMaster: what is it btw?
17:47:59 <AnMaster> anyway afk food
17:48:03 <Deewiant> the validator isn't the be-all and end-all
17:48:04 <AnMaster> http://www.quote-egnufeb-quote-greaterthan-colon-hash-comma-underscore-at.info/befunge/tquine.php
17:48:05 <tusho> olsner: befunge98 quine
17:48:08 <tusho> it draws itself
17:48:17 <olsner> nice
17:48:34 * tusho installs opera for the sake of completenes
17:48:35 <tusho> s
17:49:05 <olsner> opera is the only browser you need :D
17:49:23 <tusho> olsner: i'm quite happy with ff3 :)
17:49:30 <tusho> (on os x opera's integration kinda sucks too)
17:49:44 <tusho> e.g. like how it looks nothing like any other program
17:50:23 <tusho> also
17:50:26 <tusho> its rendering is dog slow
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18:01:39 <AnMaster> Deewiant, from ccbi:
18:01:41 <AnMaster> / SVGT limits all numbers to -32767.9999 - 32767.9999, not -32768 - 32767
18:01:41 <AnMaster> / that limits our width to 32767.9999, hence the min and max values
18:01:52 <AnMaster> err the irc client ate the first /
18:01:54 <AnMaster> but anyway
18:01:57 <AnMaster> that seems wrong
18:02:15 <AnMaster> shouldn't -32767.9999 - 32767.9999 = 2* 32767.9999
18:02:16 <AnMaster> ?
18:02:27 <Deewiant> and what is 2 * 32767.9999
18:02:27 <AnMaster> Deewiant, np?
18:02:29 <AnMaster> no*
18:02:51 <AnMaster> 65535.9998
18:02:59 <Deewiant> and what range does SVGT limit all numbers to
18:03:01 <AnMaster> according to bc
18:03:11 <AnMaster> well -32767.9999 - 32767.9999
18:03:13 <AnMaster> so...
18:03:17 <Deewiant> and is 65535.9998 in that range
18:03:23 <AnMaster> um
18:03:35 <AnMaster> indeed not
18:03:43 <Deewiant> :-P
18:03:43 <AnMaster> Deewiant, still that seems quite odd
18:03:51 <AnMaster> Deewiant, what about normal svg
18:03:55 <AnMaster> where are the limits then?
18:03:57 <Deewiant> beats me, 32-bit probably
18:04:02 <Deewiant> haven't yet got that far
18:04:05 -!- ihope_ has joined.
18:04:34 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well cfunge use full svg now, but 99% of the non-print logic is shared
18:07:59 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
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18:19:35 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I wrote a bit of a test case that prints some undef then renders my test rending
18:19:58 <AnMaster> is there anything obvious missing from my test apart from some checks that pen state and such return right?
18:20:17 <AnMaster> Deewiant, http://rafb.net/p/UxjZH195.html
18:20:32 <Deewiant> a crossing line over it might be nice
18:20:41 <AnMaster> Deewiant, ah good idea
18:20:43 <Deewiant> draw a line over a dot, too
18:20:56 <Deewiant> (I don't think either of ours can handle that case)
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18:21:02 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well my dot is as wide as a line so it won't be visible
18:21:06 <AnMaster> it will just exist under
18:21:09 <Deewiant> change the colour
18:21:18 <Deewiant> but yeah, true, of course
18:21:21 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well in my case color overwrites, it doesn't mix
18:21:28 <Deewiant> still, add it
18:21:32 <AnMaster> good idea
18:21:38 <Deewiant> and make sure they are different colours
18:21:42 <AnMaster> yep
18:21:44 <Deewiant> ideally have every element a different colour
18:22:36 <AnMaster> anyway it is impossible to test all cases, like "does the last drewn line show up" if you finishes with drawing a dot
18:22:40 <AnMaster> and vice versa
18:22:46 <AnMaster> both are interesting cases
18:22:58 <AnMaster> Deewiant, and ccbi had some problems with the last line segment before iirc
18:23:02 <AnMaster> at least cfunge did
18:23:05 <AnMaster> if it changed color
18:23:19 <AnMaster> and it was followed by a print command
18:23:23 <Deewiant> "before" doesn't interest me anymore
18:23:30 <Deewiant> this has been rewritten so much that it doesn't apply
18:23:34 <AnMaster> ah
18:23:47 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I'd like to see your code, have you uploaded it yet?
18:23:52 <Deewiant> no
18:23:56 <AnMaster> why not?
18:24:01 <Deewiant> because it's not done
18:24:10 <AnMaster> cfunge uses a public repo, bazaar style rather than cathedral ;P
18:24:12 * AnMaster runs
18:24:19 <Deewiant> I don't have a server
18:24:20 <Deewiant> sorry
18:24:31 <Deewiant> and besides, I haven't checked anything into the repo
18:24:35 <AnMaster> heh
18:24:55 <AnMaster> Deewiant, hrrm about line and point
18:25:02 <AnMaster> it will end up with circle last
18:25:10 <AnMaster> as they were all drewn at the end
18:25:11 <tusho> <AnMaster> cfunge uses a public repo, bazaar style rather than cathedral ;P
18:25:14 <tusho> Eric S. Raymond detected.
18:25:17 <tusho> Please evacuate the building.
18:25:21 <AnMaster> tusho, yes it was a joke
18:25:24 <AnMaster> didn't you see the ;P
18:25:26 <AnMaster> :P
18:25:54 <tusho> ;P
18:26:01 <tusho> I do my sarcasm without markers.
18:26:17 <AnMaster> blergh that viloates RFC sqrt(-1)
18:26:18 <AnMaster> :P
18:28:08 <AnMaster> Deewiant, do you still draw all circles last?
18:28:14 <Deewiant> yes
18:28:25 <AnMaster> well I can't see how do do it in same order at all
18:28:46 <AnMaster> well maybe keeping a chain of events and then processing them in that order
18:28:51 <AnMaster> would need a total rewrite
18:29:16 <tusho> AnMaster: apparently ~ is a popular sarcasm marker
18:29:23 <tusho> Marking sarcasm makes it even more funny.~
18:29:24 <AnMaster> tusho, oh? why?
18:29:34 <tusho> AnMaster: Apparently it's called the 'snark'.
18:29:40 <tusho> What a great idea.~
18:29:54 <tusho> I'd end up having to attach it to all my messages. ~.
18:30:29 <AnMaster> well I think that using ~ for marking sarcasm is to help the dumb~
18:30:47 <AnMaster> even I could detect you were doing sarcasm above with "<tusho> Eric S. Raymond detected."
18:30:52 <AnMaster> so I did counter sarcasm
18:31:01 <AnMaster> pretending to not have noticed it
18:31:02 <AnMaster> :P
18:31:13 <tusho> AnMaster: nice try
18:31:14 <tusho> :)
18:31:18 <oklopol> you guys are fucking retards.~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
18:31:26 <AnMaster> um
18:31:29 <tusho> oklopol: that just looks like...
18:31:33 <tusho> er.
18:31:39 <AnMaster> tusho, does two ~ cancel each other?
18:31:49 <tusho> AnMaster: I know everything about the snark~
18:32:07 <AnMaster> well o wise tusho, tell me then!
18:32:34 <tusho> Okay. I will~
18:32:41 <oklopol> heh~
18:33:28 <Deewiant> whee, the quine is down to 217911 bytes
18:33:41 <oklopol> whee!!~
18:34:18 <AnMaster> Deewiant, you are working on the quine?
18:34:19 <AnMaster> wtf
18:34:38 <Deewiant> s/quine/SVG created by running CCBI on the quine/
18:35:04 <AnMaster> Deewiant, ah
18:35:11 <AnMaster> Deewiant, what did you change?
18:35:24 <Deewiant> various
18:35:41 <AnMaster> Deewiant, about svg line length, is that for svg tiny only or?
18:35:45 <Deewiant> Unless stated otherwise for a particular attribute or property, the range for a <integer> encompasses (at a minimum) -2147483648 to 2147483647.
18:36:01 <AnMaster> Deewiant, hm nice and?
18:36:02 <Deewiant> no, that's in the spec proper
18:36:09 <Deewiant> well, you asked
18:36:19 <Deewiant> 2008-07-05 20:03:52 ( AnMaster) Deewiant, what about normal svg
18:36:19 <Deewiant> 2008-07-05 20:03:55 ( AnMaster) where are the limits then?
18:36:38 <AnMaster> ah
18:36:39 <AnMaster> that
18:36:59 <Deewiant> Unless stated otherwise for a particular attribute or property, a <number> has the capacity for at least a single-precision floating point number (see [ICC32]) and has a range (at a minimum) of -3.4e+38F to +3.4e+38F.
18:37:07 <Deewiant> so hmm
18:37:09 <Deewiant> quite a bit
18:38:00 <AnMaster> hm
18:42:05 <oklopol> why isn't egobot here anymore
18:48:24 <AnMaster> Deewiant, not sure if you already done this, but you can make colors shorter
18:48:33 <AnMaster> instead of #ffffff you can just do: #fff
18:48:47 <AnMaster> if both chars are the same in all groups you can do like that
18:49:04 <AnMaster> Deewiant, but not something I will waste sleep over :P
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18:50:22 * pikhq finds himself surprised. . .
18:50:30 <AnMaster> pikhq, why?
18:50:32 <pikhq> I'm not used to diners having yerba mate.
18:50:41 <AnMaster> "yerba"?
18:50:43 <AnMaster> wtf is that
18:51:10 <pikhq> It's a caffeinated beverage. . . Fairly common in South America, barely even *known* in North America.
18:52:37 <Deewiant> AnMaster: way ahead of you there :-) 217902 bytes now, I guess that's sufficient
18:52:50 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well I won't try to do that myself
18:53:05 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I have selected "full" anyway
18:53:11 <AnMaster> for profile
18:53:13 <ihope_> What a wonderful invention.~
18:53:22 <Deewiant> AnMaster: as have I
18:53:27 <AnMaster> pikhq, and not known in Sweden at all
18:53:32 <AnMaster> Deewiant, oh?
18:53:34 * pikhq nods
18:53:41 <pikhq> Insanely fucking good.
18:53:50 <pikhq> Mmm. . .
18:53:57 <AnMaster> pikhq, caffeine? a drug in other words
18:54:00 * AnMaster ducks
18:55:35 <tusho> ihope_: wut
18:57:29 <pikhq> Your point being?
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19:05:23 <AnMaster> pikhq, whos? mine?
19:08:11 <pikhq> Yeah.
19:08:25 <Deewiant> man, I knew SVG was a bad idea
19:08:35 <Deewiant> inkscape is using 870 megabytes of memory :-/
19:08:49 <Deewiant> and now it started swapping
19:08:52 <Deewiant> so much for that
19:09:22 <Deewiant> grumble grumble
19:12:10 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep").
19:12:43 <AnMaster> Deewiant, hm? inkscape manages my image here, but it doesn't like it
19:13:01 <AnMaster> much less ram
19:13:30 <AnMaster> Deewiant, anyway you could just render it to png then ;P
19:13:59 <Deewiant> I probably will change this to use PNG if it's not too big a fuss, actually
19:14:06 <AnMaster> Deewiant, why?
19:14:16 <Deewiant> only reason I used SVG was because it was easy
19:14:17 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I think you should offer options then
19:14:17 <AnMaster> .D
19:14:24 <AnMaster> Deewiant, after all svg rocks
19:14:26 <Deewiant> could do that too, I suppose
19:14:30 <Deewiant> now that I have a working SVG impl
19:14:32 <AnMaster> and if you do png you need to compress it *well*
19:14:38 <AnMaster> Deewiant, see optipng and such
19:14:41 <Deewiant> anyhoo, try http://iki.fi/deewiant/CCBI_TURT.svg again
19:14:56 <tusho> Broked my firefox.
19:14:57 <tusho> :(
19:14:58 <Deewiant> AnMaster: I suspect it'd use less space than the SVG regardless. :-P
19:15:12 <Deewiant> tusho: yes, firefox crashes on that.
19:15:16 <Deewiant> as did my opera.
19:15:21 <Deewiant> inkscape started swapping.
19:15:28 <AnMaster> Deewiant, depends, as you said yourself before, once you do a huge rect in the bg...
19:15:45 <Deewiant> yes, but that's rare in the end
19:15:52 <Deewiant> can your inkscape open that SVG?
19:15:59 <AnMaster> Deewiant, also you can scale it!
19:16:19 <Deewiant> doesn't help if you can't open it. :-P
19:17:14 <Deewiant> AnMaster: so did it crash your comp?
19:17:49 <AnMaster> Deewiant, it caused inkscape to lock up, which my image doesn't, I guess you got some error in it, because ccbi-pre-fix also cause inkscape to lock up
19:17:53 <AnMaster> and then hit the ulimit
19:18:02 <AnMaster> which is 500 mb
19:18:26 <AnMaster> Deewiant, the cfunge rendered image cause no lockups
19:18:28 <Deewiant> yeah, so how does it differ from yours
19:19:02 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well first, you do stuff like M2e-4
19:19:11 <AnMaster> secondly you do a class p
19:19:19 <AnMaster> I set it for all path elements
19:19:30 <AnMaster> p{fill:none;stroke-width:1e-4px;stroke-linecap:round;stroke-linejoin:round}
19:19:30 <AnMaster> c1{fill:#000}
19:19:30 <Deewiant> do you have classes for circles
19:19:32 <AnMaster> that isn't valid
19:19:34 <AnMaster> either you want:
19:19:37 <AnMaster> .p{fill:none;stroke-width:1e-4px;stroke-linecap:round;stroke-linejoin:round}
19:19:38 <AnMaster> or
19:19:41 <AnMaster> path{fill:none;stroke-width:1e-4px;stroke-linecap:round;stroke-linejoin:round}
19:19:54 <Deewiant> haa, good point
19:19:55 <AnMaster> Deewiant, you forgot the . in front to indicate this is a class
19:20:11 <AnMaster> Deewiant, and no I don't use a class for circles
19:20:11 <Deewiant> does it make a difference regarding loading, tho
19:20:23 <AnMaster> Deewiant, no idea, why don't you try yourself?
19:20:37 <Deewiant> because you're the one with the ulimit :-P
19:20:39 <AnMaster>   <title>TURT picture generated by the Conforming Concurrent Befunge-98 Interpreter</title>
19:20:43 <AnMaster> well I don't have that
19:20:55 <Deewiant> you don't have to give me the output of diff here
19:21:04 <AnMaster> Deewiant, no difference in loading though
19:21:07 <Deewiant> only mention it if you think it makes a difference
19:21:39 <AnMaster> I waited 10 seconds before closing
19:21:48 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I also removed all circles before it didn't help
19:22:04 <AnMaster> so the path alone is enough to fuck it up
19:22:26 <Deewiant> wonder why, hmm
19:24:18 <AnMaster> Deewiant, it does pass xmllint
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19:24:32 <AnMaster> too lazy to check w3c's validator
19:25:34 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I do less indention than you
19:25:36 <AnMaster> from my code:
19:25:38 <AnMaster> <svg xmlns="http://www.w3.org/2000/svg" version="1.1" baseProfile="full" width="32.0000" height="12.0000" viewBox="-0.0001 -0.0006 0.0032 0.0012">
19:25:38 <AnMaster> <defs><style type="text/css"><![CDATA[path{fill:none;stroke-width:0.00005px;stroke-linecap:round;stroke-linejoin:miter}]]></style></defs>
19:25:57 <AnMaster> yes I now correctly set width and height
19:26:03 <Deewiant> like said, I use tango's XML generator
19:26:09 <AnMaster> I'm not sure why I have to multiply it by 10000
19:26:19 <AnMaster> but only when I do that do I get the correct size in inkscape
19:27:00 <Deewiant> okay, interesting
19:27:10 <Deewiant> using scientific notation -> ram usage boom
19:27:25 <Deewiant> is this a bug in every single SVG viewer out there? :-P
19:27:35 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I guess it is harder to parse?
19:27:54 <Deewiant> not so hard that it takes 100* more memory
19:27:57 <Deewiant> and CPU
19:28:14 <AnMaster> Deewiant, no clue
19:28:29 <AnMaster> Deewiant, anyway you have solved your problem then
19:28:35 <AnMaster> now report this as a bug to inkscape ppl
19:28:39 <AnMaster> and other too
19:28:52 <AnMaster> Deewiant, certainly konqueror doesn't like scientific notation either
19:29:04 <Deewiant> weird
19:29:15 * AnMaster watch the spinning K as it tries to preview the image
19:29:45 <AnMaster> while the cfunge one takes maybe 10 seconds to create a preview from (yes konq 3.5.9 sucks at svg, it has problems with open/closed paths too)
19:30:46 <Deewiant> size goes up by 8 Kio
19:30:47 <Deewiant> ah well
19:31:11 <AnMaster> Deewiant, as for the 255 line length limit , are you aware of that inkscape never puts a linebreak in a path?
19:31:13 <AnMaster> so it ignores that
19:31:22 <Deewiant> I do not care
19:31:43 <Deewiant> the spec says that some viewers have or may have restrictions so it's best to keep to 255 byte lines
19:31:47 <Deewiant> so I keep to 255 byte lines
19:31:52 <AnMaster> Deewiant, oh be sure to use LF not CRLF even on windows, that will save a few bytes
19:31:54 <AnMaster> :P
19:31:56 <Deewiant> (rather, 10-path-node lines, but it's the same thing)
19:32:07 <Deewiant> nah, I stick to my platform :-)
19:32:23 <AnMaster> Deewiant, the file I wgeted from you was LF not CRLF
19:32:45 <Deewiant> yes, I know, I figured that if you checked the filesize you'd say I was wrong
19:32:52 <AnMaster> hahaha
19:32:52 <Deewiant> and that would have been because the filesize I quoted was LF
19:33:08 <Deewiant> but instead you come complaining to me that it's LF not CRLF, so that didn't work out too well
19:33:16 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well if that is what you quote, then that is what you shall use too
19:33:33 <Deewiant> of course I quoted the optimal filesize :-P
19:33:42 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I'm not complaining it is LF, I like it
19:34:59 <AnMaster> Deewiant, btw you use 10 bit floats right?
19:35:04 <AnMaster> well cfunge now use 16-bit ones
19:35:05 <AnMaster> XD
19:35:13 <Deewiant> floats?
19:35:14 <AnMaster> I changed to long double, on amd64 that use sse
19:35:15 <Deewiant> 80 bit?
19:35:18 <AnMaster> err
19:35:21 <AnMaster> I meant byte
19:35:21 <Deewiant> byte
19:35:22 <Deewiant> right
19:35:22 <AnMaster> not bits
19:35:23 <AnMaster> sorry
19:35:34 <Deewiant> anyhoo, like said, real is the max the platform supports
19:35:39 <Deewiant> so it's just a compiler issue henceforth
19:35:43 <AnMaster> yep
19:35:54 <AnMaster> long double is in C99 so I can use it
19:36:05 <AnMaster> it is not part of C89 though iirc
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19:43:26 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
19:44:06 -!- Corun has joined.
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19:44:41 <Slereah_> :[           ]
19:46:31 * ihope_ gives Slereah_ a tall sandwich
19:46:37 <ihope_> :[||||||||||]
19:47:18 <AnMaster> ihope_, wrong size
19:47:21 <AnMaster> he still got:
19:47:25 <AnMaster> :[|||||||||| ]
19:47:26 <AnMaster> now
19:47:37 <Slereah_> But can you give me advices on how to recover data from a hard dive, which does notwork?
19:47:45 <AnMaster> Slereah_, use backups
19:47:49 <AnMaster> that is what I would do
19:47:51 <ihope_> Oh.
19:48:03 <ihope_> Well, now he has chewing room.
19:48:09 <AnMaster> Slereah_, I assume you got daily, or at least weekly backup?
19:48:23 <AnMaster> Slereah_, but first, is it a *hardware* error
19:48:29 <AnMaster> as in, read errors
19:48:30 <tusho> <AnMaster> Slereah_, I assume you got daily, or at least weekly backup?
19:48:33 <tusho> HOLIER THAN THOU
19:48:35 <AnMaster> or just corrupted file system
19:48:37 <Slereah_> I don't have a fucking clue.
19:48:42 <AnMaster> tusho, I do backups to tape
19:48:49 <tusho> AnMaster: Expert tape backuper
19:48:50 <Slereah_> It says that I can't access the HD.
19:48:51 <AnMaster> Slereah_, boot from a good linux live cd
19:48:59 <Slereah_> Already tried.
19:49:00 <tusho> FUN FACT: Most people don't do backups.
19:49:06 <AnMaster> Slereah_, checked with smart tools?
19:49:09 <Slereah_> It does not detect the HD either
19:49:14 <AnMaster> tusho, yes, and that is bad
19:49:24 <AnMaster> Slereah_, doesn't detect, what do you mean?
19:49:28 <tusho> AnMaster: It's hard to get the space.
19:49:28 <tusho> Moneys.
19:49:29 <Slereah_> I barely know how to use Linux, I don't know what the fuck that means
19:49:47 <AnMaster> tusho, tapes got high density and aren't very expensive
19:50:08 <AnMaster> I need a total of 10 tapes that I change about once a year to new unused ones
19:50:15 <Slereah_> That's what the error message tells me when I try to open it.
19:50:16 <AnMaster> two tapes for full backup
19:50:16 <tusho> AnMaster: Backing up to a tape is totally trivial rite guyz
19:50:20 <AnMaster> then the rest for incremental
19:50:20 <Slereah_> "Can't be accessed".
19:50:23 <Slereah_> But, you know
19:50:24 <Slereah_> In French
19:50:34 <Slereah_> Also some sort of message involving parameters.
19:50:36 <AnMaster> Slereah_, so ls /dev/hdb or whatever it is
19:50:53 <AnMaster> export LC_ALL=C
19:51:00 <AnMaster> smartctl -H /dev/hdx
19:51:07 <AnMaster> where hdx is the harddrive with issues
19:51:11 <AnMaster> tell me what that outputs
19:51:18 <AnMaster> boot from a livecd that has smartmontools
19:51:23 <AnMaster> Slereah_, want a link to a good one?
19:51:25 <AnMaster> if yes a sec
19:51:26 <Slereah_> Well, if your solution is Linux, we'll discuss that again on an occasion where I'm on the liveCD
19:51:46 <AnMaster> Slereah_, http://www.sysresccd.org/Main_Page
19:51:52 <AnMaster> Slereah_, and I can't give any windows help
19:52:07 <Slereah_> But then again, who can?
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19:52:17 <AnMaster> Slereah_, why not boot to a livecd like that
19:52:22 <AnMaster> it got recovery tools
19:52:38 <Slereah_> I'll try tomorrow.
19:52:47 <AnMaster> Slereah_, why not now, if you wanted help
19:53:03 <AnMaster> you don't care for the harddrive?
19:53:12 <AnMaster> Slereah_, until then please unplug the disk in that case
19:53:29 <AnMaster> to prevent further damage from the disk spinning if it is a hardware failure
19:53:37 <AnMaster> I have seen that happen
19:54:02 <AnMaster> Slereah_, because if the disk is dying, well you don't have until "tomorrow" sometimes
19:54:08 <AnMaster> but that is your choice
19:54:12 <Slereah_> It's been down for months, AnMaster.
19:54:19 <Slereah_> I can wait another day.
19:54:40 <AnMaster> Slereah_, well then it is likely too late already
19:55:27 <Slereah_> There are many Star Trek episodes at stake here, AnMaster.
19:55:39 <Slereah_> This is serious matters.
19:55:58 <AnMaster> Slereah_, well I'm serious but you are not
19:57:12 <Deewiant> AnMaster: BTW, re: SVG and doctypes and doctype-based validation: http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/svg-developers/message/48562
19:57:35 <AnMaster> "Your browser is not accepting our cookies. To view this page, please set your browser preferences to accept cookies. (Code 0) "
19:57:37 <AnMaster> blergh
19:58:29 <Slereah_> Well, I tried to save the HD many times.
19:58:39 <Slereah_> It's actually why I installed Linux in the first place.
19:58:42 <AnMaster> Slereah_, and I asked you two commands which you refused to run
19:58:48 <Slereah_> But many problem arose.
19:58:55 <Slereah_> Well, I can't run them here.
19:59:12 <AnMaster> Slereah_, so reboot to a livecd if you want my help, I will not be here tomorrow mostly
19:59:26 <AnMaster> and next week I will be in Norway without computer or internet
20:01:04 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well give me xml schema then?
20:02:03 <AnMaster> Deewiant, also that was in 2005, and the w3c validator now have specific support for svg
20:02:05 <AnMaster> so...
20:02:20 <AnMaster> not saying it is perfect, but it is better than back then
20:07:19 <AnMaster> Deewiant, anyway I checked by hand that my output is as well formed as yours
20:07:28 <AnMaster> apart from not using e notation
20:09:14 <Deewiant> Deewiant: what was interesting was rather that SVG developers consider that the doctype is useless
20:09:34 <Deewiant> of course, what we generate is so simple that it hardly matters either way
20:09:47 <Deewiant> I just thought it was interesting in general, not trying to bash you or anything
20:12:18 <Deewiant> but yeah, yay, TURT is finally done for ever now
20:12:24 <Deewiant> AnMaster: what fingerprint's next for you
20:15:11 <AnMaster> Deewiant, not sure
20:15:17 <AnMaster> Deewiant, maybe SOCK, don't know
20:15:27 <Deewiant> not TRDS? :-P
20:15:31 <AnMaster> Deewiant, currently I'm in bug fixes only before next release
20:15:39 <AnMaster> so no new fingerprint now
20:15:48 <Deewiant> alright, whatever
20:15:56 <AnMaster> unless I fork to a branch and trunk (have only done feature branches so far)
20:16:27 <Deewiant> one excuse that I haven't updated the mycology results page is that you still haven't released a version which is done so far as (mycology-tested) fingerprints are concerned ;-)
20:16:40 <AnMaster> Deewiant, hm?
20:16:54 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well some I won't implement, and some I may implement later
20:17:12 <AnMaster> but yes I plan a mostly stable release in the near future
20:17:14 <Deewiant> yeah, so one excuse for me is your "may implement later" part
20:17:25 <AnMaster> Deewiant, what? you could just update it next year
20:17:37 <Deewiant> yeah, I said it's an excuse, not a good reason :-P
20:17:40 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I got other open source projects to
20:17:42 <AnMaster> too*
20:17:50 <AnMaster> like implement new socket engine for crossfire
20:17:56 <AnMaster> which is what I will do after this release
20:18:01 <Deewiant> crossfire?
20:18:16 <AnMaster> Deewiant, the first mmorpg, first line of code written back in 1992
20:18:25 <AnMaster> I'm a developer on it since a few months
20:19:01 <Deewiant> I beg to differ on "the first"
20:19:08 <tusho> me too
20:19:14 <AnMaster> Deewiant, really? what one was before?
20:19:39 <Deewiant> if you count MUDs, the first were in the late 70s I think
20:19:41 <Deewiant> if you don't, LORD
20:19:43 <AnMaster> MMORPG, certainly not the first RPG or the first MMO game, but could you give an example of a older MMORPG
20:19:50 <AnMaster> Deewiant,  a MUD isn't a MMORPG
20:19:57 <Deewiant> it is IMO
20:20:04 <Deewiant> but like said, even if you don't think so, LORD
20:20:25 <AnMaster> LORD was for BBS iirc
20:20:32 <Deewiant> quite
20:20:41 <AnMaster> does that count as online?
20:21:05 <Deewiant> if you need a modem to play it counts as online.
20:21:06 <Slereah_> I will now reboot to der Linux.
20:21:10 <Slereah_> brb
20:21:27 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well crossfire is the first graphical MMORPG then
20:21:54 <tusho> AnMaster: that's not a huge achivement
20:22:44 <Deewiant> Neverwinter Nights was earlier
20:22:51 <Deewiant> the AOL one
20:23:07 <Deewiant> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Neverwinter_Nights_(AOL_game)
20:23:29 <Deewiant> crossfire may be the first /graphical and open-source/ one though
20:23:46 <AnMaster> Deewiant, and it was certainly an early one
20:23:48 <tusho> Deewiant: ah yes neverwinter nights
20:23:59 <tusho> Deewiant: lol, though
20:24:03 <tusho> the first graphical, open-source MMORPG!
20:24:06 <tusho> what an amazing accomplishment!
20:24:13 <tusho> that's totally not highly specific!
20:24:41 <Deewiant> like cfunge, the first C99 Befunge-98 interpreter ;-)
20:24:45 <AnMaster> tusho, certainly nethack wasn't the first rouge, yet wouldn't you call it a game with a long and deep history
20:24:48 * AnMaster slaps Deewiant
20:24:59 <tusho> Deewiant: AnMaster is full of new ideas
20:25:00 <Deewiant> I guess I deserved that ^_^
20:25:02 <AnMaster> Deewiant, according you your mycology page the first conforming befunge98 one in C
20:25:13 <Deewiant> yes, but not C99
20:25:25 <AnMaster> Deewiant, or the second conforming one at all
20:25:30 <tusho> We all know compilers have impeccable C99 support
20:25:47 <AnMaster> tusho, it should be possible to convert it to c89, tell me when you are done
20:25:49 <AnMaster> ~
20:25:57 <Deewiant> do you use VLAs
20:26:17 <AnMaster> Deewiant, that can be replaced with malloced buffers
20:26:38 <AnMaster> same for variable sized arrays at end of structs (which I do use)
20:26:41 <Deewiant> so you do? hmm, that's an exploit waiting to happen
20:26:42 <AnMaster> I don't use the other VLA
20:26:46 <AnMaster> Deewiant, ^
20:27:04 <Deewiant> the stack only has so much size, namely
20:27:15 <AnMaster> Deewiant, indeed, which is why I no longer use it
20:27:30 <AnMaster> Deewiant, while variable sized struct is perfectly ok on the heap
20:27:33 <AnMaster> and I do use that
20:28:30 <AnMaster> Deewiant, as for VLAs on the stack, there are certain safe contexts for it, when you know the range
20:28:42 <AnMaster> like "2-200 bytes"
20:28:45 <AnMaster> or such
20:28:48 <Deewiant> of course
20:29:02 <AnMaster> Deewiant, but no I don't use it at all I think
20:29:33 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I do use a few *static* buffers on the heap though
20:29:43 <AnMaster> where I read a file in chunks of 1024 bytes for example
20:30:05 <Deewiant> s/heap/stack/ probably?
20:30:12 <AnMaster> but ah yes
20:30:35 <tusho> AnMaster: have you fuzz-tested cfunge?
20:30:40 <AnMaster> tusho, I have indeed
20:30:46 <tusho> LOL
20:30:54 <AnMaster> tusho, the script is in the cfunge bzr repo
20:30:59 <AnMaster> or in the release tarballs
20:31:02 <AnMaster> tusho, why?
20:31:14 <tusho> it's a befunge interpreter
20:31:17 <AnMaster> tusho, I found quite a few bugs that way
20:31:22 <AnMaster> it was very useful
20:31:40 <tusho> I like how AnMaster's befunge interpreter uses more hyper-optimizing POSIX functions than extremely popular (& in need of speed) languages like Python or Ruby.
20:31:46 <tusho> It's deliciously ridiculous.
20:31:57 <Deewiant> I forget, did you only find bugs that caused segfaults or others as well
20:32:03 <AnMaster> tusho, yes you just didn't see the "~"
20:32:11 <AnMaster> I think it is in the spirit of the language
20:32:30 <Deewiant> tusho: the difference is, Guido and Matz know where the optimizations apply and where they don't, and where they're just pointless.
20:32:41 <tusho> Deewiant++++++++
20:32:45 <tusho> (It's a hyper-optimized ++)
20:33:00 <tusho> Deewiant @repeat ++
20:33:02 <tusho> thx lambdabot
20:33:08 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well segfaults and valgrind errors, and once iirc a bug happened to happen as well in the same function
20:33:11 <Deewiant> :-)
20:33:19 <AnMaster> but yes in general only segfaults and valgrind errors
20:33:23 <AnMaster> which isn't too bad at all
20:33:41 <tusho> Deewiant:
20:33:46 <tusho> <tusho> > var $ "Deewiant" ++ cycle "++"
20:33:46 <tusho> <lambdabot>  Deewiant++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++...
20:33:48 <AnMaster> Deewiant, but of course they help other stuff too, like when 5kt caused errors, or when 2k@ did
20:34:02 <Deewiant> tusho: yes, I am on #haskell. :-)
20:34:14 <tusho> yes but I wanted AnMaster to see
20:34:16 <tusho> dunno why
20:34:21 <AnMaster> tusho, infinite, right
20:34:50 <AnMaster> tusho, anyway I have been thinking of porting it to quantum computers for additional speed.
20:34:55 <AnMaster> tusho, what do you think of that?
20:35:00 <AnMaster> ~~~~
20:35:00 <tusho> AnMaster: do it
20:35:01 <tusho> use java
20:35:04 <AnMaster> haha
20:35:04 <tusho> it's enterprisey
20:35:07 <AnMaster> hehe
20:36:26 <AnMaster> anyway a quantum fingerprint could be interesting
20:36:40 <AnMaster> but same category as TRDS
20:36:48 <Deewiant> use MPI so that you can run multiple threads on multiple machines
20:37:02 <AnMaster> not only feral, but wild
20:37:20 <AnMaster> Deewiant, hah
20:37:31 <Deewiant> ~
20:37:47 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I realized that..
20:37:48 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
20:37:59 <Deewiant> ~
20:38:08 -!- Slereah- has joined.
20:38:15 <Slereah-> Well, liveCD won't boot
20:38:18 <Slereah-> I think it's too dirty
20:38:30 <AnMaster> Slereah-, try the one I suggested
20:38:38 <AnMaster> Slereah-, http://www.sysresccd.org/
20:38:41 <AnMaster> that one is good
20:38:45 <tusho> AnMaster: Dirty as in LITERALLY DIRT.
20:38:46 <AnMaster> and got the needed tools
20:38:52 <AnMaster> tusho, yes I realize that
20:39:11 <AnMaster> Slereah-, but if he is burning a new anyway
20:39:15 <AnMaster> err
20:39:16 <AnMaster> tusho, ^
20:39:45 <tusho> Deewiant: Dude, shapr.
20:39:49 <tusho> Dude, he's addicted to dude.
20:39:49 <Slereah-> I'll get a new CD.
20:39:51 <tusho> Dude, he hates spam.
20:39:54 <tusho> Dude, dude.
20:40:33 <Slereah-> AnMaster : Once I boot that CD, what do I do?
20:40:41 <AnMaster> Slereah-, same commands as before
20:40:42 <tusho> Slereah-: Come here.
20:40:46 <Slereah-> Because from the look of it, I won't have the interwebs with it
20:40:55 <Slereah-> Is there interbutts on that CDN
20:40:56 <Slereah-> ?
20:40:57 <AnMaster> tusho, no idea if it got irc client
20:41:03 <tusho> AnMaster: Telnet.
20:41:11 <AnMaster> tusho, could Slereah- manage that?
20:41:14 <tusho> No :P
20:41:15 <tusho> Wait
20:41:24 <tusho> Slereah-: Get a pen and paper.
20:41:34 <AnMaster> http://www.sysresccd.org/Detailed-packages-list
20:41:36 <AnMaster> Slereah-, it has irssi
20:41:39 <tusho> ah
20:41:39 <tusho> okay
20:41:42 <tusho> run 'irssi'
20:41:45 <tusho> '/server irc.freenode.net'
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20:41:46 <tusho> (wait)
20:41:48 <tusho> '/join #esoteric'
20:41:54 <AnMaster> what tusho said
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20:42:06 <AnMaster> Slereah-, if you use wlan you could have issues
20:42:07 <tusho> (In a kommunistline, of course.)
20:42:14 <AnMaster> tusho, in a what?
20:42:19 <Slereah-> What type of issues?
20:42:32 <AnMaster> Slereah-, "better connect to ethernet" issues
20:42:33 <Slereah-> Gender confusion?
20:42:43 <AnMaster> as in wlan may not work out of box
20:42:45 <AnMaster> try ethernert
20:42:47 <AnMaster> ethernet*
20:42:52 <AnMaster> that is way more likely to work
20:43:14 <Slereah-> I don't understand a word of it.
20:43:36 <AnMaster> Slereah-, do you use wireless network?
20:43:38 <AnMaster> yes or no?
20:43:48 <Slereah-> Yes.
20:43:57 <AnMaster> Slereah-, try using cable network instead
20:44:02 <AnMaster> it is more likely to work
20:44:26 <AnMaster> Slereah-, wireless network may have issues with drivers that would require some linux knowledge to solve
20:44:32 <Slereah-> What, you want me to find a giant cable and somehow plug it in the Livebox in the next room?
20:44:55 <Slereah-> It's not because I like it that I'm on wireless.
20:45:19 <AnMaster> Slereah-, well if internet doesn't work, anyway why not just boot directly to an ubuntu install or such
20:45:24 <AnMaster> then from there connect to irc
20:45:47 <tusho> Slereah-: Dude. Livebox.
20:45:49 <tusho> I have one of those.
20:45:49 <AnMaster> Slereah-, then I can tell you what packages to install and what to run and such
20:45:51 <tusho> Shittiest router ever.
20:46:02 <Slereah-> Indeed.
20:46:19 <Slereah-> AnMaster, are you suggesting using a LiveCD or reinstalling Linux?
20:46:29 <AnMaster> Slereah-, you don't have linux any longer?
20:46:40 <AnMaster> I suggest installing ubuntu or kubuntu
20:46:40 <Slereah-> As explained before, I still have it
20:46:48 <AnMaster> Slereah-, well boot it then
20:46:52 <Slereah-> But during the last windows reinstalling
20:47:00 <Slereah-> It removed the dual booting I had installed
20:47:08 <AnMaster> tusho, you help him to reinstall dual boot!
20:47:15 <tusho> no
20:47:17 <AnMaster> I can only do it by hand with grub
20:47:20 <Slereah-> When I tried to put it back on, with the hard drive stuff, I had a giant ass error.
20:47:22 <AnMaster> from command line
20:47:32 <Slereah-> Segment something something
20:47:40 <AnMaster> segmentation fault?
20:47:41 <Slereah-> I can't work on my partitions anymore for some reason
20:47:44 <AnMaster> Slereah-, ?
20:47:45 <Slereah-> Something like that.
20:47:50 <AnMaster> Slereah-, well that is bad
20:47:55 <Slereah-> Indeed.
20:48:04 <Slereah-> Plus, it's the main hard drive.
20:48:06 <AnMaster> Slereah-, just reinstall ubuntu or something then
20:48:08 <AnMaster> -_-
20:48:09 <Slereah-> So it's probably not a good sign
20:48:36 <Slereah-> (This is why I'm anxious to get that new computer)
20:48:43 <AnMaster> Slereah-, it may work with wireless
20:48:47 <AnMaster> worth a try
20:48:59 <Slereah-> Well, Linux does work with wireless.
20:49:01 <AnMaster> Slereah-, if it doesn,t get a long ethernet cable I guess
20:49:08 <Slereah-> Even the liveCD, actually.
20:49:11 <AnMaster> Slereah-, yes it does, but it is sometimes not trivial to get working
20:49:22 <Slereah-> Actually, it is with Kubuntu.
20:49:27 <AnMaster> Slereah-, it depend on what livecd and such too
20:50:06 <AnMaster> Slereah-, systemrescuecd will need you to activate it yourself from command line I suspect
20:50:15 <AnMaster> something I don't know how, as I don't use wireless myself
20:50:23 <AnMaster> I use ethernet (cable)
20:50:24 <Slereah-> Then no dice.
20:50:30 <AnMaster> Slereah-, an issue yeah
20:50:40 <AnMaster> Slereah-, get kubuntu or whatever working again
20:50:43 <AnMaster> then ask for more helpo
20:50:55 <AnMaster> Slereah-, trying to recover from inside windows will *NOT* work
20:51:02 <Slereah-> I'll do the LiveCD.
20:51:17 <Slereah-> I don't want to lose my datas on windows by reinstalling Linux.
20:51:22 <Slereah-> *data
20:51:30 <AnMaster> Slereah-, anyway if it is only star trek movies, why not just torrent them
20:51:44 <Slereah-> Well, it's not just that.
20:51:47 <AnMaster> ah
20:51:58 <AnMaster> of course I didn't say that
20:52:10 <AnMaster> torrenting copyrighted material is illegal
20:52:58 <tusho> AnMaster: zomg
20:54:05 <AnMaster> well I'm just a bit careful, "Note that I didn't suggest that" style
20:54:06 <AnMaster> ...
20:55:01 <Slereah-> AnMaster.
20:55:05 <Slereah-> Knock knock.
20:55:06 <AnMaster> Slereah-, yes?
20:55:11 <AnMaster> Who's there?
20:55:28 <tusho> AnMaster: you're liek the anti-fuck man i'm haf
20:55:40 <AnMaster> tusho, uh?
20:55:41 <Slereah-> It's the 4chan Partyvan.
20:55:53 <AnMaster> Slereah-, the 4chan Partyvan who?
20:56:06 <tusho> "yeah, I was on drugs when I wrote that" "I may or may not have been under the influence of halluciogenic effects when I wrote that message. Note that I don't support the use of drugs in any way or form"
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20:56:11 <tusho> or someting
20:56:13 <tusho> *something
20:56:15 <Slereah-> Don't you know the partyvan AnMaster?
20:56:31 <AnMaster> Slereah-, no but I know you ruined the "knock knock" joke
20:56:51 <AnMaster> (which IMO is a rather bad joke anyway)
20:56:58 <Slereah-> Fine, let's try again.
20:57:01 <Slereah-> Knock knock.
20:57:08 <AnMaster> Who's there?
20:57:11 <Slereah-> 9/11
20:57:16 <AnMaster> 9/11 who?
20:57:24 <Slereah-> YOU SAID YOU'D NEVER FORGET D:
20:57:31 <tusho> HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHA
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20:57:37 <AnMaster> that isn't how it goes
20:57:42 <AnMaster> but fun yes
20:57:43 <Slereah-> It so is.
20:57:44 <AnMaster> kind of
20:57:59 <tusho> AnMaster: the only funny knock knock jokes are the irregular ones
20:58:05 <AnMaster> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Knock-knock_joke
20:58:13 <AnMaster> tusho, well I think this one was macabre
20:58:21 <tusho> it was MACABRE
20:58:23 <tusho> Because people DIED.
20:58:30 <tusho> They DIED and therefore you can NEVER joke about it.
20:58:39 <tusho> It's INSULTING to the people who don't have MINDS any more.
20:58:55 <AnMaster> tusho, not saying that, but how would you feel about joking about if your father died or so?
20:58:58 <AnMaster> not fun I bet
20:59:07 <AnMaster> well you may not be 12, but you sometimes do act like it
20:59:07 <tusho> AnMaster: It was in 2-thousand-and-fucking-1.
20:59:16 <oklopol> how would that make the joke less funny?
20:59:21 <Slereah-> Actually, my dad often jokes about his cancer :o
20:59:24 <tusho> If it was September 12st, you could get away with 'TOO SOON'
20:59:27 <tusho> It's not.
20:59:37 <AnMaster> Slereah-, anyway what did you want?
20:59:47 <Slereah-> wat?
20:59:50 <tusho> Anyone have a joke about hitler and jews? AnMaster will die of shock.
21:00:08 <Slereah-> How did Hitler die?
21:00:08 <oklopol> knock knock
21:00:20 <tusho> Slereah-: I don't know how did he die.
21:00:22 <tusho> oklopol: Who's there.
21:00:25 <AnMaster> tusho, I will find it bad taste
21:00:30 <Slereah-> HE SAW HIS GAS BILL
21:00:34 <oklopol> tusho: hitler killed a lot of jews
21:00:48 <tusho> Slereah-: HAHAHAHAHAHAHA
21:00:51 <tusho> oklopol: HAHAAHAHAHAHAHA
21:00:56 <oklopol> Slereah-: old
21:01:04 <Slereah-> Yeah
21:01:05 <tusho> I like oklopol's
21:01:11 <oklopol> <3
21:01:11 <Slereah-> But I had no time to find an awesome one.
21:01:20 <tusho> Knock knock.
21:01:31 <oklopol> who's there?
21:02:12 <tusho> oklopol: You fucking ruined my life. God, why did you cheat on me? After all I've done for you ... what did I do wrong? Why have you done this to me? My life is worthless. I spend every day crying until I can't cry any more. I am going to fucking kill myself. Then this will all be over.
21:02:17 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep").
21:02:35 <oklopol> tusho: You fucking ruined my life. God, why did you cheat on me? After all I've done for you ... what did I do wrong? Why have you done this to me? My life is worthless. I spend every day crying until I can't cry any more. I am going to fucking kill myself. Then this will all be over. who?
21:02:57 <AnMaster> Slereah-, anyway what did you want really?
21:03:07 <tusho> You fucking ruined my life. God, why did you cheat on me? After all I've done for you ... what did I do wrong? Why have you done this to me? My life is worthless. I spend every day crying until I can't cry any more. I am going to fucking kill myself. Then this will all be over my shepard!
21:03:08 <Slereah-> What do you mean by this, AnMaster
21:03:40 <oklopol> tusho: good one :D
21:03:45 <AnMaster> Slereah-, I assume you did the highlight above for some other reason that just a knock knock joke...
21:03:48 <tusho> oklopol: yeah I know
21:04:27 <Slereah-> Well, the partyvan means, on internet grounds, the FBI.
21:04:39 <Slereah-> It was a joke to refer to your mention of illegal download
21:04:51 <AnMaster> Slereah-, I see, well I don't go on 4chan
21:05:04 <Slereah-> No need
21:05:09 <Slereah-> It is everywhar D:
21:05:23 <AnMaster> Slereah-, yes, it's sad freenode doesn't offer ssl
21:05:44 <Slereah-> ssl?
21:06:12 <AnMaster> Slereah-, offers encrypted connection
21:06:18 <AnMaster> did you even try to google?
21:06:39 <AnMaster> Slereah-, first hit is en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Secure_Sockets_Layer here
21:07:03 <Slereah-> Then again, you answered in 30 seconds.
21:07:09 <Slereah-> So it probably was quicker to ask.
21:07:21 <AnMaster> well that is the wrong attitude
21:07:51 <tusho> It's the wrong attitude, mister Slereah-!
21:07:53 <tusho> You'd better behave.
21:07:58 <Deewiant> AnMaster: and yet, you always ask me things about D that you could easily look up from the spec. :-)
21:08:02 <Slereah-> Will I get a spanking? D:
21:08:04 <ihope_> You fucking ruined my life. God, why did you cheat on me? After all I'--wait, what?
21:08:07 <Deewiant> (or SVG, today.)
21:08:17 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well nobody is perfect
21:08:22 <Deewiant> :-P
21:08:46 <tusho> ihope_: Hi!
21:08:52 <ihope_> Ello.
21:09:40 <Slereah-> (I also by the way don't understand why you mention ssl here)
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21:35:35 <ihope_> tusho: should I refrain from mentioning rootnomic entirely, or just from pestering you about it?
21:36:03 <tusho> ihope_: Pestering.
21:36:11 <tusho> And mentioning it just to make me work on it.
21:36:18 * ihope_ nods
21:47:26 <Slereah-> Ah fuck
21:47:35 <Slereah-> Not enough disk space to burn the CD
21:48:26 <Slereah-> I need a new computer.
21:52:49 <AnMaster> Slereah-, free up some diskspace
21:52:52 <AnMaster> delete what you don't need
21:54:07 <Slereah-> My partition is 2 GB large.
21:54:20 <Slereah-> Well, 2.63
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21:54:58 <Slereah-> I can round up enough free space, but that usually mean uninstalling adobe reader and such
21:55:03 <Slereah-> It's quite annoying.
21:59:32 <Slereah-> I be going to sleep.
22:00:27 <tusho> bye Slereah-
22:01:51 <Slereah-> I leave you with this : http://www.explosm.net/db/files/Comics/guest5/scottmale42.png
22:02:06 <tusho> hah
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