< 1215561628 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1215561666 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1215561909 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1215562462 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZOOOOOP < 1215563076 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Hi Im a qit msg virus. Pls rplce ur old qit msg wit tis 1 & hlp me tk ovr th wrld of IRC. and dlte ur files. and email ths to < 1215565271 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1215565984 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@a91-152-134-23.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1215565985 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 points to anybody who can guess what this fractal is: http://www.nonlogic.org/dump/images/1215562214-fractal.png < 1215566110 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can tell how it's generated < 1215566123 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know what you mean by "is" otherwise < 1215566138 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that'll do < 1215566228 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks vaguely like the Sierpinski Triangle. < 1215566258 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Very* vaguely < 1215566260 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yeah, the structure this represents has some similarities to the sierpinski carpet < 1215566303 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(split a square into 9 sections, then continue iteratively; omit the bottom left subsquare of the main square, and in each child, omit all those squares omitted in the parents, plus the subsquare that's related spatially to the child the same way that the child is related to its parent. Alternate red and blue for division lines) < 1215566325 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a true fractal since you stop very quickly < 1215566341 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's mostly accurate, but you're missing what this represents. It's a meaningful system. < 1215566369 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could represent a bunch of things... < 1215566381 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tic-tac-toe game trees? < 1215566405 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1215566419 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: bingo! < 1215566432 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's my source, if anyone's curious: http://www.nonlogic.org/dump/text/1215562712.html < 1215566461 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shame on me for not noticing right away, and shame on you for not starting one iteration above < 1215566507 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shrugs
< 1215566537 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks neat though, eh? < 1215566578 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1215566580 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, now do the same for chess < 1215566602 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least go < 1215566646 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: buy me more ram and a couple of crays and I'll get right on it < 1215566655 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: weak < 1215566668 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you only need to handle as much of the game tree as the output resolution allows < 1215566672 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by "more ram" I mean "enough ram to enumerate 2^54 (or whatever) states" < 1215566674 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be doable < 1215566680 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hm. < 1215566684 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a good point < 1215566691 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people draw mandelbrots despite them being infinite, after all < 1215566699 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(s/infinite/actually fractal) < 1215566705 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine both chess and go would look pretty boring within visible range, though < 1215566708 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1215566716 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you can zoom in and out < 1215566723 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like in a fractal viewer < 1215566735 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and "bookmark" specific places < 1215566748 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :corresponding to specific go or chess games... < 1215566759 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehe < 1215566765 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(nah, it'd still be pretty boring) < 1215566770 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this looks like a job for something vaguely resembling seadragon < 1215566778 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GO MICROSOFT GOONS GO < 1215566800 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1215566836 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have worked on some seadragon stuff actually < 1215566846 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, really? nifty stuff < 1215566857 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not impressed < 1215566879 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the TED demo was pretty cool < 1215566892 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of it is just eye-candy, but it's well-executed eye candy < 1215566956 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you seen deep zoom composer? < 1215566972 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1215567006 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(seadragon is now called deep zoom) < 1215567018 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1215567252 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really < 1215567268 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :microsoft sucks and will screw everything up < 1215567292 0 :puzzlet__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1215568357 0 :augur!n=augur@pD9E5E5AC.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1215568359 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1215568375 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHATVE I MISSED < 1215568468 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: a cool visualization of Tic-Tac-Toe: http://www.nonlogic.org/dump/images/1215562214-fractal.png < 1215570726 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1215572975 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1215573539 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1215573736 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1215580503 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1215580514 0 :cherez!n=cherez@cpe-76-167-242-249.socal.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1215580930 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1215587751 0 :Polar!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1215587809 0 :Polar!i=polar@arunprasannan.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1215587857 0 :Polar|!i=polar@arunprasannan.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1215587908 0 :Polar!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection reset by peer < 1215590215 0 :nokmar!n=nokmar@unaffiliated/nokmar JOIN :#esoteric < 1215590399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1215590400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1215593541 0 :Hiato!n=Hiato@dsl-245-31-39.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1215595020 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1215595834 0 :Slereah_!n=hax@ANantes-252-1-24-63.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1215595838 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dudes. < 1215595851 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to reinstall Windows XP. < 1215595860 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then my DVD player fucking ATE THE CD < 1215595866 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy shit < 1215596786 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1215596930 0 :Polar|!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1215597203 0 :Polar|!i=polar@arunprasannan.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1215597274 0 :Polar|!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :No route to host < 1215597299 0 :Polar!i=polar@arunprasannan.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1215597349 0 :nokmar!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"insert quit message here" < 1215597398 0 :Slereah_!n=hax@ANantes-252-1-24-63.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1215597496 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1215597707 0 :Polar!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1215598050 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Divers4/Om%20nom%20nom.jpg < 1215598051 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Divers4/Om%20nom%20nom%20XP.jpg < 1215598054 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OM NOM NOM < 1215598554 0 :Polar!i=polar@arunprasannan.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1215598649 0 :Polar!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Network is unreachable < 1215598792 0 :Polar!i=polar@arunprasannan.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1215602342 0 :Slereah__!n=hax@ANantes-252-1-24-63.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1215602342 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1215604330 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1215604342 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1215604619 0 :Slereah_!n=hax@ANantes-252-1-24-63.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1215604619 0 :Slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1215604987 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1215605677 0 :augur!n=augur@pD9E5C815.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1215606262 0 :Hiato!n=Hiato@dsl-245-31-39.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1215607208 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1215607747 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-21-196.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1215608381 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :No route to host < 1215608873 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1215609115 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1215609172 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1215609603 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that tic tac toe visualization done actually? < 1215609607 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1215609618 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do the colors represent exactly? < 1215609624 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :victories and losses < 1215609638 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how come every bottom-left one is black? < 1215609643 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't it be symmetric? < 1215609680 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because this displays from the second iteration probably because I didn't unroll my recursion properly < 1215609692 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a quick hack < 1215609759 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so one move has already been made there? < 1215609778 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1215609821 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was that move? < 1215609867 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bottom left, clearly < 1215609881 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right xD < 1215609902 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't actually give it absolutely any thought < 1215610202 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm going to try rewriting it so that you can zoom through the entire fractal < 1215610220 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the game tree itself should only take up a few megabytes < 1215610245 0 :Hiato!n=Hiato@dsl-245-31-39.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1215610258 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can precalculate it in about two seconds, so the only limiting factor is drawing speed < 1215612252 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1215612569 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host35-82-dynamic.16-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1215613012 0 :pikhq!n=Pikhq@asst01.asunix.tufts.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1215613734 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1215614255 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1215616089 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1215616185 0 :ais523!n=ais523@gb01-fap04.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1215616482 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1215617617 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1215617783 0 :ais523!n=ais523@gb01-fap04.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1215619994 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1215620353 0 :Slereah_!n=hax@ANantes-252-1-24-63.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1215622842 0 :Slereah__!n=hax@ANantes-252-1-24-63.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1215622875 0 :tusho!n=tusho@91.105.77.118 JOIN :#esoteric < 1215622886 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1215622890 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi tusho < 1215622895 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i won < 1215622903 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure < 1215622910 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: well, if you're going to join after me and have the text on the clipboard, there's no point in playing really < 1215622917 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's true. < 1215622921 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll stop clipboarding it < 1215622933 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I reckon you'll still win then, but it'll make it fairer < 1215622943 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is that I don't really have to react < 1215622944 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do < 1215623020 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'll only be here for another 2 hours or so < 1215623039 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok why? < 1215623043 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you weren't here yesterday too < 1215623047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have to get home by 8 < 1215623052 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1215623053 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yesterday I didn't get to sleep until 10am < 1215623063 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not because I was doing anything, just because my sleep patterns went haywire < 1215623073 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this meant that I didn't wake up until pretty late < 1215623088 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1215623177 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1215623194 0 :Slereah_!n=hax@ANantes-252-1-24-63.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1215623676 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: regarding intercal lessons, i'm a taker. < 1215623687 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: sounds good < 1215623736 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have an INTERCAL compiler or interpreter on you? < 1215623747 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: he meant real-life ones, actually < 1215623751 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1215623757 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(remembered from yesterday/few days ago) < 1215623771 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: I remembered that too, but isn't it possible that oklopol's happy to learn either way? < 1215623775 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly, yes < 1215623776 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1215623784 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd so go to take INTERCAL lessons from ais523, though < 1215623788 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm happy with either way < 1215623798 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, over IRC's likely easier to organise < 1215623803 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and saves on plane fares < 1215623803 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, i don't have anything intercal related on this comp < 1215623810 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i don't need a plane! < 1215623812 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i don't have anything unix related on this comp < 1215623815 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: what OS does it run? < 1215623818 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a prob? < 1215623819 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :win < 1215623820 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dows < 1215623826 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: not necessarily a problem < 1215623836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do maintain C-INTERCAL on Windows < 1215623845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you have to compile from sources < 1215623847 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a pain < 1215623857 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can step you through that if you like, though < 1215623880 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably will have to, in case you want me to get it < 1215623912 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm more the plug-n-play type < 1215623913 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it'll be hard to learn INTERCAL with no way to run it < 1215623917 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1215623931 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you need to install a C compiler first < 1215623933 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have one already? < 1215623955 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1215623959 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll check < 1215623977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try opening up a command prompt (start|run then type cmd and return) and typing in the command gcc < 1215623992 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't have gcc < 1215624013 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I used the DJGPP version, available from http://www.delorie.com/djgpp/zip-picker.html < 1215624035 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though personally, I'd recommend Mingw or Cygwin. < 1215624047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes, I know they're better < 1215624052 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should get around to installing cygwin some time < 1215624053 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: c-intercal can run natively < 1215624053 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so. < 1215624055 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1215624059 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, cygwin is like slow as hell < 1215624060 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have cygwin < 1215624060 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mingw is good < 1215624069 0 :Slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1215624070 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: probably best to do it natively < 1215624071 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say < 1215624076 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: try opening up a cygwin prompt and typing gcc in that < 1215624097 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: gcc: command not foudn < 1215624105 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it typoed, silly prompt. < 1215624106 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, just install djgpp < 1215624179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I suggest you use the defaults for everything on the webpage I linked < 1215624212 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FTP Site: ftp://ftp.delorie.com/pub/djgpp/current/ <<< so, help the retard, i click this shiny link, right? < 1215624218 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1215624220 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scroll down < 1215624226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you'll see links to a bunch of zipfiles < 1215624226 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, okay < 1215624232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unzip them all into the same directory < 1215624234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't matter where < 1215624239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it can't be called /dev < 1215624240 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i see. < 1215624325 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, what version of Windows are you running? < 1215624334 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vista < 1215624343 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, could be interesting < 1215624345 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.... < 1215624348 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think it'll work < 1215624355 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as you put everything into your documents area < 1215624358 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if the default was xp/2000 or smth < 1215624362 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it doesn't trigger UAC every 5 minutes < 1215624370 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: DJGPP was never officially ported to Vista < 1215624383 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it works, I think, as long as you avoid certain filenames < 1215624390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as patch.exe doesn't work unless renamed to something else < 1215624400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because Vista assumes it's an installer, and so forgets its command-line arguments < 1215624428 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : because Vista assumes it's an installer, and so forgets its command-line arguments < 1215624428 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WJW < 1215624441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: what's that an abbrev for? < 1215624444 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow Just Wow < 1215624547 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: unzipped yet? < 1215624574 0 :Slereah__!n=hax@ANantes-252-1-24-63.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1215624613 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the first two < 1215624628 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rest of this one, and then 5 to go < 1215624631 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1215624669 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm a bit sceptic, in my experience things don't work unless you can install them with a oneliner or a double-click < 1215624676 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we'll see < 1215624689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: in my experience the things that need double-clicks are the things that normally fail < 1215624696 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least with the big mess installs they can be fixed by hand < 1215624704 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1215624709 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1215624740 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never met an msi that didn't manage to install the program correctly < 1215624763 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no, but I /have/ met msis that messed up all the other programs on my computer at the time < 1215624800 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you've probably installed about ten times more stuff than me. < 1215624812 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably written about infinity times more installers than you, too < 1215624817 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1215624828 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've made a few installers in vb! < 1215624855 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1215624857 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means ... < 1215624863 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think installing is an ugly concept < 1215624863 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 has made INFINITE installers! < 1215624866 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1215624871 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, "written" < 1215624878 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in vb, you click "make installer" < 1215624889 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's a wizard < 1215624984 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now 4 to go < 1215624984 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In GNU-land, it's implicit when you use Autotools. < 1215624984 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1215624986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, arguably they are the installer < 1215624990 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in python land, you don't install < 1215624993 0 :spxza!n=nicolas@41.246.243.98 JOIN :#esoteric < 1215624994 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just run < 1215625004 0 :Slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1215625034 0 :Slereah__!n=hax@ANantes-252-1-24-63.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1215625067 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes, that's pretty much how DJGPP works, except you have to set a couple of environment variables first, then you can just run < 1215625071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except there are a lot of binaries involved < 1215625081 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it has to pretend to be UNIX sufficiently well that gcc will run < 1215625158 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after a minute i should have everything < 1215625180 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1215625234 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, i think i have them all < 1215625248 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ok < 1215625260 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything unzipped into the same directory? < 1215625265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. you have one bin subdirectory < 1215625274 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1215625279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1215625293 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you need to set two environment variables < 1215625308 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Version information is in manifest/*.ver within each zip. Contents < 1215625308 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are in manifest/*.mft in each zip. < 1215625313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably making a shortcut's easiest < 1215625314 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whaat < 1215625315 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1215625316 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1215625319 0 :Slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1215625319 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are those? < 1215625334 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: basically they're like system-wide variables that tell your computer how to do things < 1215625339 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i mean < 1215625343 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what vars? < 1215625345 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the name of the dir you installed into? < 1215625349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: PATH and DJDIR < 1215625355 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wugupol. hoped you wouldn't ask < 1215625372 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmhmm < 1215625372 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you need the full path, starting with c:\ < 1215625383 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought this would be a temporary store < 1215625394 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well, you can move it anywhere you like < 1215625398 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay, i'll add, djdir is what exactly? < 1215625409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :djdir points to the djgpp.env file < 1215625414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereever it unpacked to < 1215625425 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you need to add the bin subdir to PATH < 1215625454 0 :tritonio_!n=tritonio@150.140.229.150 JOIN :#esoteric < 1215625471 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: done? < 1215625477 0 :tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1215625484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi tritonio_ < 1215625488 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just got to the environment variables thingie < 1215625503 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I forgot how inaccessible it was in Windows for a while, it's probably even harder to find in Vista < 1215625513 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to add to PATH the dir i unzipped the stuff to? < 1215625521 0 :tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1215625523 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no, its bin subdirectory < 1215625528 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right < 1215625540 0 :Slereah__!n=hax@ANantes-252-1-24-63.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1215625542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's basically the standard UNIX trick, you have a subdir called bin and put everything there to avoid having to change the PATH < 1215625543 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, done < 1215625558 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oki < 1215625559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ok, try opening up a command prompt and running the command go32-v2 < 1215625568 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it works, then the install worked < 1215625578 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should do nothing but print out a few lines of information and exit < 1215625586 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worked < 1215625587 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the information's irrelevant unless it's "bad command or filename" < 1215625599 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: great! Now let's see if the C-INTERCAL install works < 1215625613 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1215625622 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awaiting orders. < 1215625629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.intercal.ukfsn.org/download/ick-0-28.tgz < 1215625639 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :download that, again anywhere you like < 1215625667 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :done < 1215625686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to extract it < 1215625689 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :done < 1215625697 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, then open up a command prompt < 1215625700 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :done < 1215625700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and cd into the resulting directory < 1215625710 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :done < 1215625718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then makeick.bat < 1215625729 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... that's the first time anyone's tried to run that script except me < 1215625731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope it works... < 1215625737 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1215625748 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: is it working? < 1215625750 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc.exe: environment variable DJGPP not defined < 1215625750 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc.exe: environment variable DJGPP not defined < 1215625750 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc.exe: environment variable DJGPP not defined < 1215625750 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc.exe: environment variable DJGPP not defined < 1215625753 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1215625762 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1215625775 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't add djdir either < 1215625776 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's set it to the same thing as DJDIR < 1215625782 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/it's// < 1215625784 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... that might be the prob < 1215625788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1215625803 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll add, wait a mo < 1215625870 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :djdir didn't actually exist before, should it have? < 1215625874 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1215625888 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gives same errors < 1215625900 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you add DJGPP as well? < 1215625901 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do i add the env var djgpp or smth? < 1215625903 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope. < 1215625909 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, same target as DJDIR < 1215625954 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about a million more errors now :P < 1215625961 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1215625963 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the first few? < 1215625976 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds like I may have to do a few fixes to the Windows build system... < 1215625980 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too many to see, unless you tell me how to limit how much results it shows. < 1215625995 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can give a few from the middle < 1215625999 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1215626005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may be able to guess based on those < 1215626014 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :feh2.c:1919: warning: comparison between pointer and integer < 1215626017 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :feh2.c:1919: warning: comparison between pointer and integer < 1215626020 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :feh2.c:1936: error: 'SUB' undeclared (first use in this function) < 1215626021 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1215626023 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :feh2.c:1936: warning: comparison between pointer and integer < 1215626024 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... maybe a missing header-file < 1215626032 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1215626041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try hitting pause just after you start < 1215626045 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1215626045 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a rarely-used key on the ketboard < 1215626046 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1215626050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might get the first few < 1215626101 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to build parsers and lexers (if this fails, e.g. if you do not < 1215626104 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have bison/flex, this will produce errors but the compiler will build < 1215626107 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway using prebuilt versions)... < 1215626108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those ones are fine < 1215626110 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'bison' is not recognized as an internal or external command, < 1215626111 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1215626115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you should get a couple of errors < 1215626117 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about bison and flex < 1215626119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are fine < 1215626120 0 :Slereah_!n=hax@ANantes-252-1-24-63.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1215626121 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1215626131 0 :Slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1215626145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what? < 1215626157 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can unpause by pressing a key other than pause and then repause by pressing pause again < 1215626175 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idiotism.c:11:20: error: parser.h: No such file or directory (ENOENT) < 1215626178 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idiotism.c: In function 'optimize_pass1': < 1215626181 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idiotism.c:39: error: 'MINGLE' undeclared (first use in this function) < 1215626184 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idiotism.c:39: error: (Each undeclared identifier is reported only once < 1215626186 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that's what's causing the problems < 1215626187 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idiotism.c:39: error: for each function it appears in.) < 1215626192 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me think how to fix it < 1215626197 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okily dokily. < 1215626217 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: open up makeick.bat in an editor < 1215626237 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and at the end of the set CFLAGS= line, write < 1215626241 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-I./src < 1215626243 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :done < 1215626248 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1215626250 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the opening. < 1215626251 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then try running again < 1215626260 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a capital I by the way < 1215626301 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i have a good font < 1215626325 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erroooooors < 1215626336 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, first few this time? < 1215626337 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the same? < 1215626369 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i failed the pause. wait a mo.. < 1215626394 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idiotism.c:11:20: error: parser.h: No such file or directory (ENOENT) < 1215626396 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idiotism.c: In function 'optimize_pass1': < 1215626398 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same ones < 1215626399 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idiotism.c:39: error: 'MINGLE' undeclared (first use in this function) < 1215626404 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ah, try -I ./../src < 1215626419 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, wait < 1215626425 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many files are in the temp subdir < 1215626428 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the INTERCAL directory? < 1215626432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it have the .h files in? < 1215626436 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1215626445 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :temp has a lot of stuff < 1215626448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should do < 1215626452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it have parser.h? < 1215626475 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1215626481 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parser.c and parser.o, but no .h < 1215626493 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also .y is there < 1215626498 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't even know what that is < 1215626508 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did the .h not end up there? < 1215626517 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://code.eso-std.org/c-intercal/temp/parser.h < 1215626518 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite hard to say < 1215626547 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try downloading that and putting it there < 1215626550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then trying again < 1215626560 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1215626566 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, wait a bit < 1215626594 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cc1.exe: out of memory allocating 1448 bytes after a total of 25243592 bytes < 1215626594 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lex.yy.c:2350: warning: 'yyunput' defined but not used < 1215626598 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are these okay? < 1215626615 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the first one... < 1215626628 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't sound like it, no < 1215626641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second one's ok < 1215626650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first one is pretty mysterious, though < 1215626662 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was that when it was compiling idiotism.c, by any chance? < 1215626680 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right after "Compiling..." < 1215626687 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, of course < 1215626689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only happened once? < 1215626693 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i paused < 1215626700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, unpause then < 1215626716 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I know how to fix the out-of-memory by simplifying stuff < 1215626735 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cc1.exe: out of memory allocating 1448 bytes after a total of 25243592 bytes < 1215626738 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lex.yy.c:2350: warning: 'yyunput' defined but not used < 1215626741 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cesspool.c: In function 'ick_pin': < 1215626744 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cesspool.c:153: warning: the address of 'buf' will never be NULL < 1215626747 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc.exe: CFLAGS$: No such file or directory (ENOENT) < 1215626750 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cset-l.c:3: error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or '__attribute__' before '-' t < 1215626753 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oken < 1215626756 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc.exe: idiotism.o: No such file or directory (ENOENT) < 1215626759 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The system cannot find the file specified. < 1215626762 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 file(s) copied. < 1215626765 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiling..., then this, then the copy messages < 1215626772 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it ends < 1215626789 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try backing up src/idiotism.oil, then deleting most of the lines in it and trying again < 1215626789 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a file full of optimiser idioms, so you can delete any of the lines in it and it'll still work < 1215626789 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1215626806 0 :ais523!n=ais523@gb01-fap04.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1215626832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, connection trouble < 1215626836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Wed Jul 9 2008] [18:05:15] I think I know how to fix the out-of-memory by simplifying stuff < 1215626838 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Wed Jul 9 2008] [18:05:47] try backing up src/idiotism.oil, then deleting most of the lines in it and trying again < 1215626841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Wed Jul 9 2008] [18:06:02] that's a file full of optimiser idioms, so you can delete any of the lines in it and it'll still work < 1215626859 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except you probably want to put [oklopol] or something like that at the start so it has at least one section < 1215626895 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the compiler'll get confused < 1215626895 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1215626899 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i just scrape it? < 1215626900 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1215626902 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye bye < 1215626907 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he'll be back. < 1215626911 0 :ais523!n=ais523@gb01-fap04.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1215626911 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o rly < 1215626917 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i just scrape the whole file? < 1215626925 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :empty it < 1215626937 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and put [oklopol] in the beginning < 1215626939 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I think it may get confused if it doesn't have at least one line < 1215626943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try just one section line and one idiom < 1215626963 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[minglefold] < 1215626963 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(#{1}1$#{1}2)->(#{mingle(x1,x2)}0) < 1215626968 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there, that's a minimal OIL file < 1215626974 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I picked the most useful idiom from it, too < 1215626980 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[oritself] < 1215626980 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(_1|_1)->(_1) < 1215626985 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the contents now < 1215626988 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that k? < 1215626989 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: that one's less useful, but will work too < 1215626993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's fine < 1215626996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now try recompiling < 1215626997 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1215627009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the next version of C-INTERCAL will have an automatic workaround for that sort of thing, by the way < 1215627014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian reported the out-of-memory to me < 1215627027 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently one of their build machines doesn't have enough memory to process idiotism.c by default < 1215627031 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says "I'm confused, idiotism.oil seems a bit empty." now, and fails to install < 1215627038 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1215627042 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no < 1215627043 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember writing that message anywhere < 1215627046 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1215627055 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just joking to pass the time < 1215627061 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1215627062 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost < 1215627067 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not outta mem, but < 1215627069 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: C-INTERCAL should have a 'modern messages' mode < 1215627073 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where all error messages are of the form: < 1215627076 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm confused, X. < 1215627085 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cesspool.c: In function 'ick_pin': < 1215627088 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cesspool.c:153: warning: the address of 'buf' will never be NULL < 1215627089 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm confused, you seem to have a COME FROM where I didn't expect one..." < 1215627091 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc.exe: CFLAGS$: No such file or directory (ENOENT) < 1215627094 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cset-l.c:3: error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or '__attribute__' before '-' t < 1215627097 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oken < 1215627100 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eroror. < 1215627120 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the CFLAGS$ thing is really confusing < 1215627135 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for the cesspool.c warning, I've never seen that one < 1215627151 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can understand that it may just be there because they improved the compiler < 1215627171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: heh, there's a typo in makeick.bat < 1215627173 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... err... what do i do? < 1215627178 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that so < 1215627182 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where it says FLAGS$ change that to FLAGS% < 1215627186 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1215627210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Konversation stripped the %C at the start of each of those) < 1215627217 0 :Slereah__!n=hax@ANantes-252-1-24-63.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1215627227 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection reset by peer < 1215627237 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: and the other error is another typo < 1215627249 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ick-clc_cset_latin1 should be ick_clc_set_latin1 < 1215627253 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I thought I tested this file < 1215627263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe some last minute changes snuck in after I tested it... < 1215627271 0 :spxza!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1215627289 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same error < 1215627295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one? < 1215627296 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: change it to %CFLAGS^ < 1215627297 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1215627300 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%CFLAGS% < 1215627302 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%CFLAGS% < 1215627311 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of %CFLAGS$ < 1215627323 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's exactly as the lines before and after it now < 1215627327 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1215627332 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the never be null warning isn't a problem, I think < 1215627337 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it was the last one, hard to say as they're all identical now < 1215627339 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1215627396 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, the never-be-null warning is warning me that my assert is always true < 1215627418 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :errors this time? < 1215627572 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1215627581 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:14…   oklopol: same error < 1215627586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one? < 1215627590 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you haven't given me instructions after that < 1215627592 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1215627604 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:11… oklopol: cset-l.c:3: error: expected '=', ',', ';', 'asm' or '__attribute__' before '-' t < 1215627604 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:11… oklopol: oken < 1215627624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: did you fix "ick-clc_cset_latin1 should be ick_clc_set_latin1" < 1215627626 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's another typo < 1215627636 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in makeick.bat < 1215627670 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no i didn't < 1215627671 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so wait < 1215627690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you'll get credit for finding the bugs in the next release... < 1215627699 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I was planning to write a script to generate makeick.bat automatically < 1215627706 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I don't have to do it by hand every time and make typos < 1215627728 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ick-clc_cset_latin1 should be ick_clc_set_latin1" < 1215627729 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1215627732 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set or cset? < 1215627735 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cset < 1215627737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1215627775 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it worked < 1215627786 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: try running bin/ick -@ < 1215627796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that produces a usage message, it worked < 1215627812 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it did < 1215627817 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay! < 1215627823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now on to the actual INTERCAL < 1215627824 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i have intercal now? < 1215627828 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh :) < 1215627829 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1215627835 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do, so cool < 1215627843 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably best to start with a NOP < 1215627846 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do the lessons work, were you leaving soon? < 1215627851 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I am leaving soon < 1215627855 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how soon? < 1215627856 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'll just start until I have to leave < 1215627861 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: about 20 minutes < 1215627865 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay. < 1215627870 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see... < 1215627878 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL's an imperative language < 1215627879 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you lessonize on #eso? < 1215627883 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know that much < 1215627889 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I was going to < 1215627894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I can start a new channel if you like < 1215627901 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it here < 1215627904 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd like to dig it up in the logs < 1215627907 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1215627920 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so you write all the commands in sequence < 1215627920 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah here is good < 1215627925 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is already more normal than befunge < 1215627935 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all statements start with a "statement identifier" < 1215627947 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1215627948 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that marks where one statement starts and the previous statement ends < 1215627951 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of like a semicolon in C < 1215627958 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the most common statement identifier is DO < 1215627962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use PLEASE as well < 1215627972 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you need to have about one PLEASE for every three DOs on average < 1215627977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the program won't compile < 1215627978 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1215627990 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the GIVE UP command ends the program < 1215627998 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so DO GIVE UP is the shortest non-erroring INTERCAL program < 1215628001 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually DOGIVEUP < 1215628007 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the spaces are optional < 1215628009 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries
< 1215628015 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...how do i compile? < 1215628020 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the file will need to have a .i extension so it's treated as INTERCAL < 1215628026 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then just ick filename.i < 1215628039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you need to give the path to ick, either that or add it to your PATH < 1215628043 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it case sensitive? < 1215628048 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: not on Windows < 1215628055 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1215628056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, INTERCAL itself is < 1215628058 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do give up < 1215628063 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has to be allcaps < 1215628075 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's only one lowercase letter in INTERCAL, and it's part of an operator < 1215628093 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ick nop.i seems to crash < 1215628098 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in what way? < 1215628102 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hangs < 1215628107 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so doesn't really crash < 1215628109 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that's strange < 1215628116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try unhanging it with control-C < 1215628121 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if that fails, control-break < 1215628124 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, do control-break first < 1215628132 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because sometimes on windows control-C exits your DOS prompt < 1215628149 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, check to see if it's hanging because a UAC prompt popped up behind the window you're in < 1215628162 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ctrl-c is fine < 1215628162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that shouldn't have triggered one, but you never know... < 1215628174 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't trigger one < 1215628191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try ick -o nop.i < 1215628195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that dumps the output to stdout < 1215628199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can see where it hangs < 1215628206 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hangs. < 1215628211 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1215628214 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try ick -d nop.i < 1215628219 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1215628221 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should spurt out debug info from the parser < 1215628226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see if it reaches that stage < 1215628233 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if anything makes ick hang < 1215628237 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infloops at parsing i think < 1215628245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, after or before the parse? < 1215628246 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lotsa output < 1215628252 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pages after pages of stuff < 1215628255 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-d < 1215628256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's wrong < 1215628265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: try putting a newline at the end of your program < 1215628272 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may have hit a known bug I forgot about < 1215628277 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i have already < 1215628310 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, then two newlines < 1215628361 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Entering state 1 < 1215628364 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reading a token: lexer: returning token 292 < 1215628367 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next token is token PLEASE () < 1215628370 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shifting token error () < 1215628373 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Entering state 3 < 1215628376 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reducing stack by rule 7 (line 189): < 1215628379 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$1 = token error () < 1215628382 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lexer: returning token 292 < 1215628385 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> $$ = nterm command () < 1215628387 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stack now 0 1 < 1215628391 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Entering state 7 < 1215628394 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reducing stack by rule 2 (line 169): < 1215628397 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$1 = nterm program () < 1215628400 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$2 = nterm command () < 1215628403 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> $$ = nterm program () < 1215628406 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stack now 0 < 1215628407 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this repeats, no matter how many newlines. < 1215628412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1215628429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your program is just PLEASE GIVE UP < 1215628440 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO GIVE UP actually < 1215628447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, let me see if it works over here < 1215628459 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, infiniloop for me too... < 1215628459 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1215628470 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually no, it worked < 1215628471 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was just slow < 1215628475 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1215628495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ah, did you write your program in Notepad? < 1215628506 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :edit.exe actually < 1215628512 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't have a hex editor < 1215628517 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering if it had a BOM that was screwing things up < 1215628523 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BOM? < 1215628537 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: binary at the start of a text file that Notepad adds to say what format a file's in < 1215628546 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notepad does no such thing < 1215628561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it does < 1215628566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just invisible < 1215628567 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, no it does not. < 1215628572 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invisible? < 1215628581 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, because it encodes a zero-width space < 1215628598 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you load the file as a text file, you can't see the difference < 1215628600 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's call your assertion < 1215628604 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION opens python
< 1215628619 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make sure there's at least one non-ASCII character in the file < 1215628638 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: python handles it < 1215628638 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe < 1215628643 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that won't help < 1215628651 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> open("C:\\Users\\oklopol\\intercool\\ick-0.28\\bin\\nop.i","rb").read() < 1215628651 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'PLEASE GIVE UP' < 1215628652 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHP doesn't, and that screwed up MediaWiki once < 1215628658 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: python handles it < 1215628669 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trick is to compare the file's size as reported by dir with a count of the characters < 1215628677 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf, doesn't show weird space chard in __repr__? < 1215628682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... let me add a BOM by hand to my nop.i and see what happens < 1215628685 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, i'm switching off python < 1215628695 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*characters < 1215628697 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it does, < 1215628701 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but python's file reading handles it < 1215628703 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe < 1215628708 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1215628708 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's retarded < 1215628709 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you used edit.com < 1215628710 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so. < 1215628712 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, it's not < 1215628715 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called < 1215628717 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"HANDLING UNICODE PROPERLY" < 1215628728 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do i actually open a file then? < 1215628736 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is opening a file. < 1215628740 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unicode support is a feature < 1215628741 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh < 1215628755 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1215628766 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, my BOM by hand went and printed out (null) in a comment where it should have printed out the source code < 1215628787 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means that a null-pointer's being derefed somewhere < 1215628801 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if a BOM's the problem, though < 1215628803 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably it isn't < 1215628807 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: try one of the example programs < 1215628813 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. ick pit/primes.i < 1215628829 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that work or does it infiniloop? < 1215628846 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah infoops < 1215628856 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same parser error < 1215628872 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders why the parser's doing that
< 1215628891 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Reading a token: lexer: returning token 292 < 1215628894 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: is there any way to open a file without it having been preprocessed? < 1215628896 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it say that inside the infinite loop? < 1215628898 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just before it? < 1215628901 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, get the binary data < 1215628903 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i don't think you understand < 1215628908 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unicode support is a good thing < 1215628909 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol! < 1215628911 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im in europe! < 1215628919 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wanting to turn it off is, well < 1215628919 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't < 1215628921 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: says it all the time < 1215628925 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets get together and make out < 1215628942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the lexer's returning an infinite number of token 292 for some reason < 1215628948 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: i'll think about it < 1215628960 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::3 < 1215628964 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: where in europe < 1215628969 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: no, it's not a good thing < 1215628977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks up what 292 means
< 1215628978 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nuremberg. i was in london last week < 1215628979 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: #python < 1215628988 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why tusho? did you want me to come up and make you a man? :p < 1215628997 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: just curious, sheesh < 1215628997 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1215628998 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: i want to see if there's a BOM, that thing prevents me from doing that < 1215628998 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO, apparently < 1215629001 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLEASE is 293 < 1215629002 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And not in a bi-curious sense) < 1215629006 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: #python < 1215629009 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1215629009 0 :Slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1215629010 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you know that parser.h was missing? < 1215629015 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :::makes tusho a man:: < 1215629020 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wha? < 1215629024 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: #python is generally a better channel for python than #esoteric < 1215629024 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try downloading http://code.eso-std.org/c-intercal/temp/parser.c too < 1215629036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the versions of parser.c and parser.h you got don't match for some bizarre reason < 1215629042 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's what happend < 1215629043 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: i'm sure they'll agree with you, i don't see the point. < 1215629051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you got parser.c from C-INTERCAL 0.28 < 1215629055 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: actually pythoners generally disagree with me < 1215629056 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's bull < 1215629059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I gave you parser.h from C-INTERCAL 0.29 by mistake < 1215629061 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe it's good to have unicode support that can't be turned off for some reason. < 1215629068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so all the tokens are wrong... < 1215629069 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: #python < 1215629077 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: nah. < 1215629080 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so whats be goin on since i vanished a few days ago? anything interesting? < 1215629084 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ok then stop whining about it < 1215629091 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: well, I'm teaching oklopol INTERCAL < 1215629098 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh joy < 1215629101 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: no. < 1215629103 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and teaching myself how it's a good thing if the header file matches the file it's referencing < 1215629121 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: actually, I'll dig out the C-INTERCAL 0.28 version of parser.h < 1215629128 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay. < 1215629130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably easier than it mismatching everything else in 0.29 < 1215629209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/raw/1066874 < 1215629245 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll just paste that in parser.h and retry makeick? < 1215629259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1215629311 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that has PLEASE=292 like it should be < 1215629353 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1215629356 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it did nothing! < 1215629372 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1215629376 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems to work now < 1215629377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, it compiled, and you ran the result, and nothing happened? < 1215629387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to go very soon < 1215629395 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but as another test try writing DO READ OUT #123 < 1215629399 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before the DO GIVE UP line < 1215629412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and running the result of that < 1215629414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should get some output < 1215629462 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1215629499 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION has to go in about 3 minutes
< 1215629511 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CXXIII < 1215629512 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ICL633I PROGRAM FELL OFF THE EDGE < 1215629512 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ON THE WAY TO THE NEW WORLD < 1215629512 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CORRECT SOURCE AND RESUBNIT < 1215629520 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: that means you missed the GIVE UP line < 1215629520 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :resubnit < 1215629525 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, that's the correct output < 1215629527 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that mean < 1215629537 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a typo for resubmit that was originally made in 1972 < 1215629541 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and has been preserved ever since < 1215629544 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh :P < 1215629554 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'll continue this some other time < 1215629557 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe tomorrow? < 1215629564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should be able to stay longer then, too < 1215629568 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps. < 1215629572 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, bye < 1215629576 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"(1) DO COME FROM ".2~.2"~#1 WHILE :1 <- "'?.1$.2'~'"':1/.1$.2'~#0"$#65535'"$"'"'&.1$.2'~'#0$#65535'"$#0'~#32767$#1"" < 1215629577 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should be available pretty much 24/7 < 1215629579 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1215629688 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, tusho, in the unicode world, you don't store arbitrary raw binary data anymore, but only unicode stuff? < 1215629693 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even with stuff like pictures < 1215629722 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine by me, although i don't see the point; still i'd say it's quite weird not letting you at least *read* arbitrary data. < 1215629859 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@71.237.179.105 JOIN :#esoteric < 1215629862 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really know anything about unicode, and i don't really care at all, so no need to answer. < 1215630317 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1215630388 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1215630396 0 :Corun_!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1215630404 0 :Corun_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1215630478 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lalala < 1215630555 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lololol < 1215630678 0 :Corun!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1215631294 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1215631361 0 :Slereah_!n=hax@ANantes-252-1-66-217.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1215631562 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1215631959 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1215631963 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1215631963 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1215631976 0 :Slereah_!n=hax@ANantes-252-1-66-217.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1215632097 0 :Slereah__!n=hax@ANantes-252-1-66-217.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1215632100 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1215632132 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1215632206 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1215632253 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@jfkew.plus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1215632470 0 :Slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1215632677 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1215632812 0 :Slereah__!n=hax@ANantes-252-1-66-217.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1215633047 0 :Slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1215633148 0 :Slereah__!n=hax@ANantes-252-1-66-217.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1215633276 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :::rapes tusho:: < 1215633282 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1215633541 0 :Corun_!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1215633551 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1215633640 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur is such a bad dood < 1215633643 0 :Slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1215633655 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im so bad < 1215633659 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh man am i bad < 1215633682 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just type-raped a 13 year old. thats how bad i am. oh yes. < 1215633711 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imaginary rape is the baddest thing on all the internets. im so bad ive done the baddest thing on all the internets! < 1215633732 0 :Slereah_!n=hax@ANantes-252-1-66-217.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1215633781 0 :Slereah__!n=hax@ANantes-252-1-66-217.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1215633781 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1215633827 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o yeah i' is. < 1215633945 0 :Slereah_!n=hax@ANantes-252-1-66-217.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1215633945 0 :Slereah__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1215635123 0 :Corun_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1215635738 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1215635784 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1215636334 0 :Corun_!n=Corun@cpc1-rdng15-0-0-cust168.winn.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1215637738 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1215640577 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1215640781 0 :atrapado!n=ro@cm36220.red.mundo-r.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1215641554 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1215641623 0 :Slereah_!n=hax@ANantes-252-1-66-217.w81-250.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1215642677 0 :tusho!n=tusho@91.105.77.118 JOIN :#esoteric < 1215642687 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i miss. < 1215642741 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rape < 1215642757 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: by augur? < 1215642772 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofcourse. < 1215642775 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i raped you. < 1215642782 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you missed it because i drugged you to make you more complacent. < 1215642791 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :roofies mess with your memory < 1215642814 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: no, but there were people in the room and it highlighted it in a box < 1215642821 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't want someone to see ::rapes tusho::, strangely < 1215642832 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why I disconnected < 1215642833 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1215642839 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :::rapes you again:: < 1215642863 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12:01:22 i just type-raped a 13 year old. thats how bad i am. oh yes. < 1215642864 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12 < 1215642875 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome. < 1215642880 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im even badder. < 1215642886 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :::really bad:: < 1215642925 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Abandonando" < 1215644347 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :::rapes augur:: < 1215644350 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JUST GOTTA BE DIFFERENt < 1215644352 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALWAYS REINVENTING MYSELF < 1215644357 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :::enjoys it: < 1215644379 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1215644395 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :klpl. < 1215644472 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: do you want to look at the rather nifty objective-c-and-smalltalk-and-ruby inspired language I'm cooking up < 1215644475 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not esoteric but it's rather nice. < 1215644484 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure! < 1215644484 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can only give you a few samples, though < 1215644488 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything for the children < 1215644489 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1215644496 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can write the code natively, but can't tell you the rules that dictate it :p < 1215644515 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you give me samples and ill write up a grammar, hows that? < 1215644518 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a semantics if you want < 1215644520 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses indentation-based syntax so if you don't like that beware < 1215644528 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think I can grammar-ize it < 1215644529 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god < 1215644529 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind < 1215644530 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just tell me about it < 1215644532 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not finalized yet < 1215644537 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: http://pastebin.ca/raw/1067226 < 1215644546 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just an extremely basic sample < 1215644551 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cooked it up in like 2 seconds < 1215644567 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might need a 4 space indent < 1215644568 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1215644579 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to look good I mean < 1215644586 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i take it you're providing imaginary hooks for Cocoa? :P < 1215644594 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: its object system is Objective-C's < 1215644606 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no layer or binding or hooks < 1215644610 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it IS the obj-c object system < 1215644628 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i mean you're providing the ability to run Cocoa stuff < 1215644637 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: well yeah, the interp will be in obj-c < 1215644638 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1215644644 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. < 1215644654 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does seem to look a bit better with 4-space indents < 1215644668 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, it's basically - take the objective-c language, make the syntax smalltalky, and take some hints from ruby < 1215644673 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add some of my own stuff. < 1215644679 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and those type declarations it has are optional < 1215644681 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do < 1215644683 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :initWithName: name < 1215644684 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1215644688 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not finalized that yet < 1215644690 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but probably < 1215644696 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it wouldn't be inferred, though, just dynamic) < 1215644699 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can see the inspiration < 1215644716 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1215644727 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my opinion < 1215644734 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Shouter initWithName: ...) is wrong < 1215644742 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you're right < 1215644743 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1215644745 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be < 1215644752 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shouter withName: ... < 1215644758 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1215644774 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Shouter new) initWithName: ... < 1215644782 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1215644787 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be (Shouter alloc) initWithName:... < 1215644791 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as is objective-c < 1215644804 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its interpreted, dont use allocs. :P < 1215644807 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no memory management! < 1215644810 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make it fully interpreted! < 1215644842 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: dude, it's the objective-c system < 1215644847 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'alloc' just means 'create object' < 1215644848 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not mine < 1215644851 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what objective-c does < 1215644853 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't think you understand - < 1215644855 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you say 'class' < 1215644858 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alloc doesnt mean "create object" < 1215644859 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that actually makes an objective-c class < 1215644864 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes I know < 1215644866 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the point is < 1215644868 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NSString is the real nsstring < 1215644871 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no layers or anything < 1215644877 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you send messages to it, you really send messages to it directly < 1215644897 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does RubyCocoa use alloc messages and stuff? < 1215644916 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1215644920 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a layer for .new < 1215644921 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh. < 1215644925 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Objective-C has 'new' anyway < 1215644930 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just [alloc] init, I think < 1215644938 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, you know. rarely do you just want to use 'init' < 1215644943 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: you could also write this as < 1215644945 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are we talking about objective c < 1215644950 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((Shouter new) name:'joe') < 1215644954 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is ... nicer < 1215644955 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :::rapes lament:: < 1215644964 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can remove initWithName < 1215644966 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: that makes no sense. < 1215644966 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't rape me :( < 1215644966 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah < 1215644974 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the new: message should not return the object itself. < 1215644977 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: it does. < 1215644980 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1215644985 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesnt in ObjC < 1215644986 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that is what it does in objective-c. < 1215644991 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Class new) returns a new Class. < 1215644996 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1215645005 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but setName: @"Joe" doesn't < 1215645017 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph, okay < 1215645019 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll revise it < 1215645029 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in smalltalk, it probably would < 1215645030 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you cant do (((Shouter new) name:"Joe") sayName) < 1215645037 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: yeah < 1215645040 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in smalltalk it's standard practice to have otherwise void functions return self < 1215645042 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this is the objective-c system < 1215645048 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, it inherits its quirks < 1215645050 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because ((Shouter new) name:"Joe") is undefined < 1215645082 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1215645083 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oky < 1215645084 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*okay < 1215645085 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1215645092 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1215645096 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what syntax for class-methods.... < 1215645110 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+- < 1215645115 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: i mean in my language < 1215645124 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so do i. < 1215645125 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use +- < 1215645132 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not smalltalky < 1215645135 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd like to keep smalltalky _syntax_ < 1215645139 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is ObjC-y < 1215645146 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but syntax-wise, I'm going for smalltalk < 1215645157 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1215645170 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: considering just having a forClass seperator < 1215645170 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1215645172 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :method < 1215645173 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : foo < 1215645175 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forClass < 1215645179 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[all methods here are class-side] < 1215645182 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh. < 1215645194 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: how about < 1215645197 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ and - < 1215645200 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but - is implicitly assumed < 1215645205 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you don't really ever need to specify it < 1215645206 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever. < 1215645209 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its your language :P < 1215645245 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: version two: < 1215645252 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/raw/1067241 < 1215645261 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and look at the first line of talker, it's actually some neat magic < 1215645280 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, clearly very Ruby-ish < 1215645285 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1215645288 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ basically means: < 1215645294 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :run this code in the context of the class I'm making < 1215645295 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it runs < 1215645301 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Talker attr: #name is: NSString < 1215645303 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just get rid of the @? < 1215645308 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which defines some accessors and stuff < 1215645314 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: because it's ambiguous with message defs < 1215645321 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and instead just use method names instad < 1215645325 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :attr: ... < 1215645333 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd define a method called attr in the class < 1215645333 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not ambiguous since it lacks a type definition < 1215645343 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it wouldnt < 1215645344 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: they're not required < 1215645345 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like I said < 1215645348 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1215645356 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then self attr: ... < 1215645368 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could work < 1215645389 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be consistent with self-directed message passing style < 1215645408 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: OK, yes, it just seemed nice to have an explicit marker < 1215645411 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i agree < 1215645424 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, its explicit in that its a method call. :P < 1215645453 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, "self new"? < 1215645455 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes no sense < 1215645460 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :self is the class, augur < 1215645462 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a class method < 1215645468 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait yes < 1215645470 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind :p < 1215645478 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/raw/1067246 <-- a version with and without type declarations < 1215645481 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you can mix and match < 1215645492 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forget, in ObjC, are classes objects too? < 1215645507 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: even if they aren't, my language will reify them into objects < 1215645508 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1215645527 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will work fine either way < 1215645585 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in objc, classes are fucked-up pseudo-objects without instance variables < 1215645595 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, "class" variables :) < 1215645599 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: then i'll make a reified version with class variables :-p < 1215645601 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1215645610 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think classes have class variables in objC < 1215645619 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically aiming to be smalltalk, but the obj-c object system is more useful because it can interact with all of cocoa < 1215645634 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'cause, you know, getting all that stuff for free is nice < 1215645640 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of cocoa is in objc so it'd better be able to interact with cocoa. :P < 1215645666 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: yes, but it's more elegant to just use the obj-c object system < 1215645671 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus not having to 'interact' with it - it Just Works < 1215645674 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's all the language knows < 1215645677 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, there're no class variables in objc < 1215645681 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saves me implementing an object system, you know :p < 1215645711 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which leads to all sorts of problems < 1215645714 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there must be lament < 1215645721 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet, there aren't < 1215645730 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if there isn't, I can wrap around a class and implement them without any real trouble < 1215645731 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'm happy < 1215645751 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet lots of cocoa classes have class variables.. < 1215645751 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, they don't < 1215645754 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, they do. < 1215645756 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there're no class variables in objc < 1215645766 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: name a class? < 1215645768 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'cause, you know < 1215645770 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something that works just the same. < 1215645772 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this discussion is unproductive < 1215645776 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: yes, it's something that works just the same < 1215645782 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :namely, plain old global variables from C < 1215645790 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except of course they don't work just the same < 1215645791 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1215645791 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then its a class variable. < 1215645800 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how its implemented is irrelevant, its a class variable. < 1215645802 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's a global variable < 1215645806 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has global scope < 1215645811 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not treated like one. < 1215645816 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1215645817 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its accessed via the class. < 1215645822 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, um, augur < 1215645824 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a pretty bad argument < 1215645826 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can access it from everywhere else in the program, too < 1215645827 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can treat C as OOP too < 1215645831 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't mean it has objects and methods < 1215645836 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's worse < 1215645844 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose you have a method initialize < 1215645846 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for your class < 1215645846 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Objective C is just a layer on top of C. < 1215645851 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it initializes a "class variable" < 1215645855 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is just a global variable < 1215645861 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then, you have a subclass < 1215645866 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this subclass dosen't have an initialize method < 1215645873 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so its parent's initialize is called instead < 1215645881 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the "class variable" gets initialized a second time < 1215645893 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you didn't put in a check that initialization already happened, you may well be screwed < 1215645897 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know that objective c classes do get initialized, right? < 1215645912 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: yeah, i agree that that's bad, so I'll layer proper variables then :p < 1215645922 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: ...isn't that exactly what i was describing on the past ~5 lines? < 1215645925 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the point is, objective c has what amounts to class variables. < 1215645931 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it does not. < 1215645936 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't < 1215645936 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it does. < 1215645936 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::\ < 1215645945 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you show me how you can access these supposed globals. < 1215645945 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: objective c has global variables. < 1215645954 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're not supposed globals < 1215645957 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just globals < 1215645960 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like any other global in C < 1215645961 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then show me how you access them. < 1215645966 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they ARE supposed < 1215645968 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like you would access any other global < 1215645971 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you're supposing they're globals. < 1215645975 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: dude < 1215645976 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament means < 1215645979 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are literall < 1215645980 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y < 1215645982 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the top scope < 1215645986 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'int MyClass_global;' < 1215645990 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then as a class method < 1215645992 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're at the top scope of the respective .m file < 1215645994 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1215645998 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anywhere else where you wish to put them < 1215645999 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ (int)global { return MyClass_global; } < 1215646000 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1215646003 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :show me how to access [NSColor redColor] < 1215646004 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and THAT's how cocoa classes do it < 1215646012 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: step 1. find out what global name they used step 2. use it < 1215646018 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or [NSNotificationCenter defaultCenter] < 1215646018 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: that's a method, not a variable. < 1215646025 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: prove there IS a global name. < 1215646026 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are methods < 1215646029 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes its a method lament < 1215646033 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: implement a class method without it < 1215646034 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go on < 1215646036 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just NOT in the spec < 1215646041 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are other methods for setting values returned by class methods < 1215646043 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but [NSColor redColor] probably constructs an NSColor anyway < 1215646047 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: yes < 1215646049 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which does < 1215646057 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ (void)setGlobal:(int)newone { MyClass_global = newone; } < 1215646060 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :show me that its actually a global. < 1215646081 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: link us to the part of the objective c spec that gives you another way to implement a class variables < 1215646083 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll wait here. < 1215646093 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont have to because im not claiming it ISNT global < 1215646101 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know how its implemented. < 1215646102 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : show me that its actually a global. < 1215646106 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not making a positive claim. < 1215646113 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, tusho, thats not a claim < 1215646118 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats a demand for evidence. < 1215646122 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know how [NSColor redColor] is implemented, but it has nothing to do with class variables anyway < 1215646128 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might not know the difference, let me find you a dictionary definition < 1215646164 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but [NSColor redColor] == [NSColor redColor] < 1215646176 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: yes, it's a method returning a constant value < 1215646180 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's a constant a variable? < 1215646218 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, its body probably simply constructs the NSColor object < 1215646226 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by creating it with specific red, blue and green components < 1215646226 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: that's not true < 1215646228 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since its == < 1215646229 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so same object < 1215646230 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1215646234 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still < 1215646235 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :durr. < 1215646237 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :way to go lament. < 1215646253 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose it's stored in a global variable, then, after all :) < 1215646256 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament doesnt even know what == means or what its implications are. < 1215646261 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you suppose < 1215646262 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol @ augur < 1215646263 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet its not supposed? < 1215646270 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1215646273 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, you're pulling this out of your ass. < 1215646280 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said earlier its not a supposed global variable < 1215646284 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"AHA! Because you are not COMPLETELY STATING without ONE SHADOW OF A DOUBT that it's a global-- You're wrong. Therefore, I am right.@ < 1215646286 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now you just said you suppose it is a global variable < 1215646294 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop trolling < 1215646297 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, im not claiming anything < 1215646299 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i cant be "right" < 1215646302 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im asking for proof. < 1215646307 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament is refusing to provide any. < 1215646308 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proof. With SCIENCE! < 1215646316 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: As a counter - how else could you make a class variable? < 1215646316 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:31 you said earlier its not a supposed global variable < 1215646320 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:31 and now you just said you suppose it is a global variable < 1215646324 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either learn to read english, or stop trolling < 1215646329 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell us one way. Otherwise, obviously, since a global will work, it's the only way, if there's no other way. < 1215646338 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: the same way you make instance variables instance variables < 1215646343 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: which is? < 1215646354 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :having some struct in memory representing the class variables. < 1215646369 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: show us an example < 1215646371 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that actually runs < 1215646372 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: objc has instance variables because there's language-level support for them. < 1215646380 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no langugae-level support for class variables. < 1215646384 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you say < 1215646392 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1215646396 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet you show no proof that these things are global < 1215646399 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1215646412 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, im just asking you to show me that this is the case < 1215646420 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here watch, i'll be you, but not you < 1215646421 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: Show us a runnable example. Now. < 1215646431 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please, just go read an objective c reference - that part of it that says "objective c does not have class variables" < 1215646431 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either that or you have no case. < 1215646438 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually they're not global variables < 1215646439 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As, if there isn't any other way to do it, it has to be the one way that you _can_ do it. < 1215646446 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're really is language level support < 1215646449 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there* < 1215646451 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: show us < 1215646456 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :show us. show us. show us. show us. < 1215646463 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you say 'i don't have to', you have no leg to stand on < 1215646467 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ill show you as much as lament shows. < 1215646473 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :troll < 1215646473 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :troll < 1215646473 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :troll < 1215646491 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im doing nothing more than lament < 1215646502 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're proving your point! In a totally EDGY way. < 1215646504 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You go, man! < 1215646505 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofcourse im doing it for irony < 1215646512 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres no point to prove < 1215646513 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Irony fuck yeah! You rock! < 1215646515 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Show it to the man./ < 1215646519 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1215646523 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho stop being an idiot < 1215646531 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: what you're doing is destroying your credibility as somebody worth talking to < 1215646549 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not your credibility in terms of how much you know or don't know objective c, that's not the point < 1215646554 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? by demanding you show me? < 1215646559 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by being an asshole < 1215646566 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not being an asshole < 1215646569 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im asking you to just show me < 1215646570 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you wont < 1215646572 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just < 1215646573 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fucking < 1215646575 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :show < 1215646576 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me < 1215646584 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise you're full of shit < 1215646604 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and its your credibility thats been destroyed < 1215646614 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you're now logged as making claims without backing them upo < 1215646620 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, augur tends to think everything that is not exactly what he personally thinks (whether backed up by evidence or not) is completely wrong, and since we are not providing 100% scientific proof, we are obviously wrong, he is obviously right, and because you're not providing perfect and utter proof (even if you are), he does not have to back up his opinions whatsoever. < 1215646629 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho stop being a child. < 1215646638 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive said multiple times that i dont know how its done < 1215646643 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, this is from the apple objc reference: "For all the instances of a class to share data, you must define an external variable of some sort." < 1215646643 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hence why im asking for evidence < 1215646656 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link. < 1215646663 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google < 1215646670 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: you are accusing lament of fabricating a quote from apple's objective c reference < 1215646671 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you obviously have the link < 1215646672 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you fucking kidding < 1215646684 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he obviously has the link < 1215646686 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i obviously have the document stored locally on my computer because i need to refer to it < 1215646689 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet he wont copy and paste it < 1215646691 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. < 1215646696 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i program in objective c for work < 1215646713 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :googled, verified, and accepted. < 1215646717 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you suck. < 1215646720 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally! < 1215646721 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jeez < 1215646736 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: you're 12. you're an idiot. go away. < 1215646743 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know. at the start of writing that long message. < 1215646747 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I considered saying < 1215646753 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'and now watch augur bring up my age because he's out of arguments' < 1215646755 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought < 1215646758 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'no, that'll just inflame him' < 1215646762 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'he hasn't done that since forever.' < 1215646767 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so. fucking. typical < 1215646776 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not the only one who's noticed that you act like a child. < 1215646790 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're making a fool of yourself, augur < 1215646790 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but others have been kind to you and not mentioned in in public. < 1215646806 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're still an idiot who thinks i was making an argument that trying to prove somthing < 1215646809 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, they've obviously had intense discussions in #omg-tusho-is-12 < 1215646813 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :giggling behind my backs < 1215646816 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously. < 1215646818 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*back < 1215646841 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, you've gotta make shit up to argue. < 1215646845 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not me. < 1215646855 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: so what, how do you know people have noticed it? do they confide in you? < 1215646858 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not the one going around making up things to attack. < 1215646858 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you a priest or something? < 1215646868 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shall i quote them to you? < 1215646870 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure. < 1215646871 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go ahead. < 1215646912 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: come on. < 1215646916 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the first time i see personal insults between channel regulars < 1215646930 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: i'd like to know what these people have had to say. < 1215646931 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let him quote. < 1215646936 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, forget it, im not playing your game tusho. < 1215646950 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: quote it, or you're fabricating evidence to scare me or something < 1215646956 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a game, I'm intrigued. < 1215646974 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you're trolling, and by responding to your childishness i've already lost to it. < 1215646980 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: i'll stop trolling. < 1215646982 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just quote. < 1215646984 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: you keep insulting him. < 1215646993 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, im fabrication evidence. < 1215646998 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: just let him quote. i'm interested. < 1215647003 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rumored evidence. < 1215647009 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: tell. < 1215647011 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the case may be. < 1215647016 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell. < 1215647044 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: come on.. < 1215647076 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask rodger the great. < 1215647084 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's stated that in public, actually < 1215647089 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did he? < 1215647090 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but do show your non-public quotes < 1215647092 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well nevermind then. < 1215647095 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd love to see them < 1215647144 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok im off to bed. < 1215647158 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: quote < 1215647177 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night lament, thank you for (frustratingly) enlightening me to how ObjC handles "class variables" < 1215647200 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: he pulled it out of his arse, didn't he. < 1215647217 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1215647264 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw tusho are you really that eager to see rodger say you act like a child? < 1215647271 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure. < 1215647290 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh but how do you know i didn't just make it up with my magical typing skills? < 1215647300 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't. so show me. < 1215647319 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: Tusho needs to die in a fire. < 1215647332 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION nods
< 1215647348 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i made that up but hey, what he said. < 1215647364 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're retarded, augur. :) < 1215647374 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I thought you were just making a statement to me < 1215647378 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you claimed that I was the one who needed to fabricate stuff for my arguments < 1215647379 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how ironic < 1215647391 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do like RodgerTheGreat's implicit attack, though < 1215647392 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very smooth. < 1215647393 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont, it was another attempt to make a point < 1215647397 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one that flew over your head. < 1215647405 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woooooosh! < 1215647417 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, fuck you RodgerTheGreat :) < 1215647424 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i quoted something to you, you'd just come back and say that i made it up < 1215647431 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck you too, you little pest < 1215647449 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that its just text in a log file on my computer and i have no proof rodger ever said it < 1215647464 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so theres no point in even quote it at all. < 1215647477 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a reason people don't take youngsters seriously on the internet, and you, tusho, are a shining example of this. < 1215647480 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you dont want to see the quote, you just want to call me a liar. < 1215647481 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1215647500 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: I note that, pre anyone knowing anything about my age, people used to use reasoned arguments in here. < 1215647503 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crazy, isn't it? < 1215647512 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reasoned arguments? < 1215647516 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bash.org/?14207 < 1215647518 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean like the one you used earlier against me? < 1215647528 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one where im trying to prove some point < 1215647535 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when all i was doing was asking for evidence < 1215647535 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1215647539 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that reasoned argument? < 1215647545 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: Everything can be backed up by bash.org! < 1215647554 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Especially when it's totally irrelevant) < 1215647563 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho < 1215647571 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what hes saying is that we didnt need to find out you were 12 < 1215647573 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could tell < 1215647575 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you act like it < 1215647592 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall anyone saying anything like that in the past, ever, actually < 1215647599 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofcourse you dont < 1215647600 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have secret logs of that too I'd enjoy seeing them. < 1215647604 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: reading comprehension, dude < 1215647674 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to fucking chill, tusho. and learn how to argue. you make shit up, and thats bad form. < 1215647697 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: i am pretty chill right now, actually - you're the one who said 'tusho needs to die in a fire', then RodgerTheGreat called me a little pest < 1215647702 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank god, while tusho is a stupid 12-year old, the rest of us are mature and reasonable < 1215647711 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps some chilling might be warranted on both of your parts. < 1215647712 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as exemplified by " tusho: you're 12. you're an idiot. go away." < 1215647717 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i said that as a fake quote to prove a point < 1215647724 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're doing well with your point-proving < 1215647726 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you still dont get that. < 1215647727 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keep it up < 1215647749 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're 12, i should know better to expect you to be smart enough to grasp these things < 1215647771 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a lovely ridiculous conversation, it's quite fun. < 1215647793 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: nevermind the fact that i was talking to you and he was being childish and distracting? please. < 1215647846 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was asking you for evidence, and he was being noise, screaming his head off in typical childlike fashion. what i said valid and relevant. < 1215647858 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you dont grasp why, you're an idiot too, and you should go away. < 1215647877 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augur: you just told the chanop that he's an idiot and he should go away < 1215647878 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grats < 1215647908 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, for one < 1215647921 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho actually said exactly how you can do globals in objc < 1215647925 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with code examples < 1215647934 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before i bothered to quote the reference < 1215647937 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saying that you can is not evidence of how its done < 1215647944 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first of all. < 1215647954 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you claimed it was done with globals and all i did was ask you to show me how it was done. < 1215647960 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all he did after that point was troll. < 1215647980 0 :augur!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you claim i was trolling but he was the one contributing nothing to the conversation at all, other than noise.