00:02:34 -!- RedDak has joined. 00:26:07 ooooookloooooopolllllllll!!! :D 00:31:14 -!- oerjan has joined. 00:41:11 * oerjan celebrates Irregular Webcomic's 2000th strip 00:41:52 oerjan: It's "Irregular Webcomic!". 00:42:46 YOU BROKE MY CELEBRATION! MY VENGEANCE SHALL BE GRUESOME! 00:43:15 BUT, FULL OF EXCLAMATION MARKS! 00:43:33 surely it makes no sense to celebrate the 2000th strip of a comic called irregular 00:43:40 2000 is so regular! 00:43:53 you should celebrate the 2031 strip. 00:44:12 well Irregular Webcomic! is one of the most regular webcomics out there 00:44:21 ironic 00:45:12 although i vaguely recall DMM hoping to pass Bill Watterson's Calvin and Hobbes score, which is surely more irregular 00:46:14 true geeks will also celebrate 2048, of course 00:46:42 although they will not call it irregular either 00:51:56 http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/15.html 00:51:56 auuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuguuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuur 00:52:02 you'dathought someone would have made it 00:52:23 :D 00:52:53 well that was a long time ago. someone might want to recheck. 00:53:06 not me, i don't read newsgroups any longer :( 00:53:25 http://www.irregularwebcomic.net/15.html 00:53:27 how poignant 00:53:29 i checked 00:53:30 it doesn't exist 00:53:41 how do you make a usenet group again 00:53:42 <.< 00:53:48 also, his website has its own forum (which, for some reason, i read) 00:53:55 when was that strip posted? 00:54:06 oh i see 00:54:09 4 feb 03 00:54:10 shame 00:54:22 itd be more poignant if it was posted in the last week 00:55:05 well it cannot, since DMM is on the Infinite Plane of Death without computer access :D 00:55:07 oooooooo 00:55:33 pardon, the Finite Plane of Death with Two Features 00:55:47 i mean, am i the only one who thinks its ridiculous that half the ISPs in america are banning the alt hierarchy 00:55:48 ?? 00:55:56 (it used to the Infinite Featureless Plane of Death, but then the Mythbusters got onto it) 00:56:09 *to be 00:56:33 HI EVERYBODY 00:56:56 (er, i guess i'm spoiling a lot here) 00:57:27 HI OKLOBEING 00:58:23 the alt hierarchy was always less distributed (when i read newsgroups) 00:58:40 and more noisy 00:58:41 -!- tusho has quit. 00:59:55 and now the alt hierarchy is nonexistant 01:00:07 ofcourse, none of it has to do with what they actually say its about 01:00:14 they wanted the alts shut down because of kiddie porn 01:00:37 but you wanna bet its the MPAA's hand trying to get it shut down because of movie sharing? :) 01:01:10 * oerjan might cough up a couple kroner for that bet 01:01:36 but then, it's probably both 01:03:19 well 01:03:27 ofcourse they got SOME worried parents to back it 01:03:40 but is it those parents that came up with the idea? lolno. 01:03:46 they probably dont even know what usenet is 01:14:03 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 01:14:56 "Irregular Webcomic: 500 Internal Server Error" 01:15:19 looks like the servers a bit ... IRREGULAR! bwahahahaha!!! XD!!! 01:15:28 hm? i am reading the forum at this moment. 01:15:29 *cough* 01:15:55 hm indeed the main page is down 01:16:43 database error, it says 01:16:47 you act as tho thats at all relevant to the humor :P 01:17:10 oh sorry, was in reading mode 01:17:37 i guess that means my brain is determined to seek out information 01:34:59 waffles! 01:35:07 hrrr! 01:35:10 :( 01:35:15 * oerjan has no waffles 01:35:37 cool waffles 01:35:42 so cool 01:35:49 nope 01:35:53 hot waffles 01:35:59 warm and cuddle 01:36:01 *cuddly 01:37:30 waffles are so tasty omg 01:38:29 maybe if i put some raspberry jam on this cardboard... 01:39:19 god i envy you 01:39:41 i remember i used to enjoy eating paper when i was a kid 01:40:40 HEY I'M TRYING TO PREY MERCILESSLY ON YOUR SYMPATHY HERE, DON' 01:40:45 T RUIN IT! 01:41:35 darn apostrophe so close to the return key 01:45:17 yeah, but the real wtf is that backspace is too. 01:45:37 paper huh 01:45:42 maybe you just needed some fiber 01:47:16 i have a feeling the backspace is less of a problem, perhaps because when i use it i'm snapping out of automatic touch mode anyhow 01:47:58 oerjan: good point, that may be the reason it's much less problematic in practise than you'd think 01:48:08 i have made some pretty nasty mistakes because of it though 01:48:28 since i often first type, then think, then rewrite 01:49:07 well i'm pretty sure i've done some of that too 01:49:22 this is all vague recall territory 01:49:58 <-- coffee 01:50:31 (not --> coffee as i already got it :) ) 01:53:58 -!- Judofyr has quit. 01:57:22 hey i want coffee too 01:58:16 BWAHAHA now you just sit there with your waffles! 01:58:46 mind you it's just instant coffee 01:58:55 -!- adu has joined. 01:59:09 its funny how good news and bad news usually come at the same time 01:59:11 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 01:59:26 like with the coffee and waffles? 01:59:56 no like promotions and responsibility 02:00:01 ah 02:00:21 :) :( 02:00:35 :/ 02:00:42 :X 02:00:44 >:-> 02:00:50 :P 02:01:08 those should all be vi commands... 02:01:28 should be or actually are? 02:02:08 speaking of which I just realized that the "yi" editor is indistinguishable from "vi" when displayed in a text box that's 5 pixels too small 02:02:45 * oerjan senses a use/mention error there 02:02:50 only the last one is a real command, probably short for :Print or something 02:03:05 not even :X ? 02:03:14 maybe :exit 02:03:22 * oerjan brings up vim 02:03:27 i don't know vi very well 02:03:37 I use emacs 02:03:49 'yi' uses many emacs keybindings 02:03:54 :X is encryption 02:03:58 o heh 02:04:21 although "yi --as=vim" should set vi-like keybindings 02:04:41 :/ can start a command, since /.../ is a search that can give a line number 02:04:54 o wow 02:04:59 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 02:05:04 hi GreaseMonkey 02:05:28 i want to implement fancy keybindings 02:05:34 'lo 02:05:36 like yi --as=xcode 02:05:53 or yi --as=kdevelop 02:06:15 or yi --as=vstudio 02:06:26 heh, :P "Just as ":print". Was apparently added to Vi for 02:06:26 people that keep the shift key pressed too long... 02:06:44 i was right! 02:07:32 no 02:07:46 :P is "Put the text before the cursor [count] times 02:07:50 " 02:08:03 no, that's P. :P is different 02:08:16 o hehe 02:08:25 i need to learn how to use vim :help :p 02:08:40 :H 02:09:15 :help :H shows an obscure :Hexplore command 02:09:37 my :help :H shows the help for :h 02:09:53 oklopol: !! 02:09:57 :help :h is different 02:09:59 hows the lang going? 02:10:03 (== :help) 02:10:28 hm :H actually _does_ seem to work as :help 02:11:31 it may be trying the case alternative if it finds nothing more precise 02:11:55 adu: which lang? 02:11:56 :) 02:12:50 i do vaguely recall our talk, but not what the language was 02:14:42 oklang? 02:15:12 hmm, unless you have multiple languages 02:15:41 oklopol has multiple _everything_ 02:15:58 oklopol: do you have multiple girlfriends? 02:17:01 oklopol: so how many languages have you made? 02:18:11 oklopol? 02:18:36 inquiring minds want to know, and will soon start blowing things up if not 02:18:53 well 02:19:10 * oerjan does recall oklotalk 02:19:24 I wouldn't blow up, I'd just start talking about excrement and nasty stuff until oklopol decides to talk... 02:19:45 oklotalk! thats the one 02:19:47 this might actually chase away everyone _but_ oklopol 02:19:59 lol 02:20:27 and lament, who _might_ kickban you in extreme cases 02:20:42 i like lament 02:21:00 he is always sad in the most funny way possible 02:22:22 adu: i have made quite many languages 02:22:42 have you made it to oklotalk++ yet? 02:23:02 :) 02:23:08 i've only made oklotalk-- in fact 02:23:15 ic 02:23:18 even better! 02:23:32 http://www.vjn.fi/oklopol/oklotalk--.txt 02:23:36 not really :P 02:23:38 is that like C with closures, without closures? 02:23:47 it's a simplification of oklotalk, basically. 02:23:53 with a boring lisp-like syntax 02:24:11 you should haskell syntax 02:24:12 and no, not like C with & without anything 02:24:25 well oklotalk has a cool J-like syntax already 02:24:35 i have enough languages with haskell-like syntax 02:24:47 like jo98*&x0fkc9X;;g$[] 02:24:53 well i guess just graphica, and that's not all that close either 02:24:58 yes, something like that 02:25:10 every string is a legal oklotalk program 02:25:17 oo I just had a terrible idea 02:25:22 that was one of my design goals 02:25:22 Funge.NET 02:25:31 i don't know much about .net 02:25:37 its terrible 02:25:43 Funge would be the nice part 02:25:47 well yes i know that much 02:25:50 lol 02:25:55 o_O 02:26:09 oklopol, so since every thread only has a one-byte state... the way you do binary/triary operations is by having two bugs collide on top of the same instruction 02:26:15 (bugSophia here) 02:26:19 and... to make that sane 02:26:23 CakeProphet: yes, i know 02:26:37 so operators are fully symmetric on parameters? 02:26:38 err 02:26:39 i mean 02:26:40 oklopol: for library implementors its a nightmare, because of the magnitude of libraries you have to implement, and for a library user, its a nightmare, because of the magnitude of libraries you have to remember and search through 02:26:43 there's an instruction that's "move forward one step and halt until a non-halted bug collides with you" 02:26:44 sane? isn't this off-topic? 02:27:10 CakeProphet: alright 02:27:22 but, err 02:27:32 all operators can take their operands in any order? 02:27:41 ...if they can't, I'm boned. 02:28:03 CakeProphet: you're boned 02:28:13 * oerjan is suddenly reminded of the sentient ant colonies from Godel, Escher, Bach 02:28:14 well i guess - A B = + (- A) B and similar shit can be done for other non-symmetric things 02:28:19 err 02:28:25 oklopol: /if/ I allow negatives 02:28:28 - A B = + A (- B) 02:28:31 but current state is represented in bites 02:28:34 *bytes 02:28:36 which 02:28:37 are not negative. 02:28:50 bites would be more in keeping with the bug theme :D 02:28:55 ...not to my knowledge. 02:28:56 :) 02:29:06 lolol 02:29:14 CakeProphet: "byte" does not say anything about semantics really 02:29:24 you know 2's complement? 02:29:36 aye 02:29:45 2's company 02:30:07 but I don't really feel like treating bytes as short integers for the purposes of having negatives. 02:30:11 I could just define them as "numbers" 02:30:24 well no need for negatives 02:30:28 in this implementation, Python integers. 02:30:40 ya 02:30:42 oklopol: for subtraction I'd need either negatives or some way to order the operands. 02:31:14 well not necessarily, you need decrement, and flow control 02:31:21 that will be had 02:31:36 I was thinking flow control could be implemented in the halting rules. 02:31:39 so, for example. 02:32:06 all you need to make sure is is that there is infinite space, the rest will come naturally :D 02:32:23 ya 02:32:25 *-is 02:32:36 if you had an operation that tested the equality of two threads... 02:32:41 FungeSpace + BigInteger 02:32:44 alll you need... 02:33:21 no need for bignums 02:33:27 fs is infinite 02:33:47 so that... when they both crossed the operation... a new threads are sent on all the non-taken paths containing either a 1 or 0 02:34:00 -a 02:34:04 and then 02:34:07 oklopol: fs? 02:34:12 fungespace 02:34:20 an operation that kills a thread if its 0... and an operation that kills a thread if its non-0 02:34:26 i assumed you'd get that as you capitalized the chars 02:34:33 oklopol: then what can each cell in fungespace hold? 02:34:41 you can essentially using the "halt until you cross a non-halted bug" rule to implement flow control / conditionals. 02:34:44 well i assume a fixnum 02:34:48 16bit? 32bit? 64bit? which one? why? why not the others? 02:34:53 err 02:34:57 32 perhaps 02:35:03 why not 64? 02:35:22 why not 256-bit? 02:35:24 i've never seen any need for anything other than bignum anywhere 02:35:27 CakeProphet: ya! 02:35:28 so don't ask me 02:35:30 i didn't make it 02:35:44 i believe in the 0/1/infinity rule 02:35:48 oklopol: you mean fixnum 02:36:04 what? 02:36:22 you said you though bignums were all you need 02:36:28 did you mean the opposite? 02:36:50 i meant exactly what i said 02:37:15 i meant, hard to answer why 32 instead of 64, when i find them both quite arbitrary 02:37:25 a ok 02:37:57 I personally thing all bignums should be encoded like UTF8 02:37:59 i don't really care much for the practical aspect of computers 02:38:12 so... if a quote creates a bug with a state of nil... and "e" tests the equality of up to 4 bugs, ~ is the "halt after one step" operator, and # is the "destroy if 0 or nil" operator. 02:38:19 then. 02:38:37 (oh... and ) is increment, and ( is decrement) 02:38:45 :) 02:39:28 CakeProphet: what was ":" do? 02:39:45 adu: anyway, about the languages of mine, http://www.vjn.fi/oklopol/ and see the ones after thue 02:40:14 not all, but most of what i have any kind of specs ready 02:40:32 is that a face? 02:40:32 v))<">))v 02:40:34 | | 02:40:36 >~e~< 02:40:38 ... 02:40:40 it would help 02:40:45 if this was fixed width 02:41:03 I shall pastebin it somewhere. 02:41:11 lol you implemented bf in cise? lol 02:41:41 yes, assuming that's correct 02:41:48 ...it's not 02:41:54 I hit enter too soon 02:42:21 adu: i'm more confident about the shorter programs 02:42:43 although all i've actually implemented abot cise is the parser 02:43:06 whats graphica? 02:43:16 my graph creation language 02:43:31 the sample is a binary hypercube 02:43:45 just had a long lecture about it like yesterday :P 02:44:17 i like straw 02:44:33 tried to make it a bit sane 02:44:55 straw is about clean side-effects when it comes to mutational changes in data structures 02:45:00 basically 02:45:09 ic 02:45:09 you can have a function to change an element in a list 02:45:16 have you heard of Disciple 02:45:20 no 02:45:30 it also takes in interesting approach to side effects 02:45:43 http://pastebin.ca/1076165 02:45:50 comments are like brainfuck comments. 02:45:52 you know how in Haskell, print :: a -> IO () 02:46:04 yeah 02:46:09 in Disciple, print :: a -(IO)> () 02:46:12 just make sure they don't include quotes anywhere otherwise you'll accidentally spawn off extra threads... (though no worries... they'll likely not get anywhere or do anything) 02:46:19 or something like that 02:46:34 basically, you can have a function to change an element in a list, but you can use this functionally, and create an imaginary copy of the list with just the element changed 02:46:35 side effects are put inside the arrow, essentially 02:46:41 but you can still use the original one too 02:46:49 the language keeps track of reverts to the original state 02:46:52 hmm 02:48:03 oklopol: interesting 02:48:10 the equivalent of a string in bugSophia would be make a bug travel down a path... splitting off copies of itself that "pick up" characters via a set-byte-value operator 02:48:17 i don't have anything pretty for the actual IO 02:48:30 and i will certainly have nothing like monads 02:48:36 and then moving those all towards a memory stream... which is some sort of Unicode character with a , (write operator) next to it. 02:48:48 oklopol: I actually perfer arrows to monads 02:48:58 arrows? 02:49:03 you mean what disciple does 02:49:20 Monads are like a safety net, Arrows are like 24/7 body guards 02:49:48 ...aside from being ridiculously concurrent, bugSophia isn't all that conceptually interesting. I kind of want to make it a bit weirder. 02:50:00 oklopol: no, Disciple just adds syntax to describe "->" more indepth 02:50:21 an Arrow is a Haskell type class, just as Monad is a Haskell type class 02:50:28 i need to watch some dark angel now, see you in a while 02:50:32 ah 02:50:32 ok 02:50:32 i see 02:50:38 but bye 02:50:43 l8r 02:53:01 ...perhaps I should have wormholes. 02:53:20 so that all the little - | > < wires don't get cluttered. 02:53:23 also, time travel 02:53:29 on it. 02:54:11 oklopol currently wins at interestingness. ;_; 02:54:14 the negative lists thing is epic. 02:55:34 I think I'll also a ; operator.... which is "write to a stream and then blocking-read" 02:55:51 so you can basically have 02:55:53 functions 02:56:08 oklopol also wins at sexiness. 02:56:17 mind you i've invented more interesting things than negative lists! 02:56:29 oklopol, you need to explain negative lists to me. 02:56:37 I might be able to explain it.... 02:56:40 augur: see logs, it took a while to explain :P 02:56:46 that's another possibility 02:56:47 but I am not too confident 02:56:50 i refuse to look at logs. 02:57:06 augur: I beg to differ: http://i83.photobucket.com/albums/j316/adamadamadamamiadam/sepialol.jpg 02:57:16 that is pure sex. 02:57:23 CakeProphet: you? 02:57:28 mhm 02:57:34 god you've grown 02:57:51 rofl 02:57:52 no sorry 02:57:54 oklopol is hotter 02:57:55 it's been like... 2 years? 02:57:57 you have no lips 02:58:03 if you had lips you might be as sexy as oklopol 02:58:05 but you're not 02:58:15 i like your hair tho 02:58:20 also: shave dude. 02:58:30 TOO 02:58:32 LAZY 02:58:38 i don't shave either 02:58:48 augur is going by an old photo here :) 02:58:53 yeah but oklopol, you're hot. 02:59:01 give me more photos oklopol :D 02:59:29 I bet we both have very slavic noses. 02:59:47 oklopol has a 100% sexy nose 03:00:08 I sometimes think I spend too much time organizing my interpreter code. 03:00:25 I actually document it 03:02:42 oklopol!!! 03:02:45 pictures! 03:05:08 !!!!!!!! 03:05:34 augur: perhaps some day 03:08:14 *today 03:15:17 I believe I had @ as the thread terminator 03:15:18 as 03:15:21 it looks like a big hole 03:15:27 that they would fall in or something. 03:17:56 epic negative lists? 03:18:04 did I miss something? 03:18:36 -!- augur has quit (Nick collision from services.). 03:18:47 a concept i invented for nopol 03:18:58 -!- augur has joined. 03:19:10 rofl... go figure... the halting problem is computable for bugs. 03:19:30 if there is no ~... it's not going to halt (I don't think) 03:19:36 oh 03:19:38 hmmm 03:19:43 but you can't determine when they terminate 03:19:47 which is 03:19:49 what actual halting is. 03:19:51 ... 03:22:48 -!- augur has quit (Nick collision from services.). 03:23:10 -!- augur_ has joined. 03:31:52 oklopol: so whats a negative list? 03:32:00 ...lol 03:33:05 adu: -1. it's a list. -2. it 03:33:10 please forgive adu, i think hes a noob. 03:33:13 's negative. 03:33:17 -!- augur_ has changed nick to augur. 03:33:20 no 03:33:21 -3. darn apostrophe again 03:33:22 I was loling at 03:33:24 how long that will take to explain 03:33:46 noob? no no I'm a boon 03:33:47 -!- augur has changed nick to Guest802. 03:33:54 >O 03:33:55 -!- Guest802 has changed nick to augur_. 03:34:01 >_ boon == good 03:34:17 noob == bad 03:34:40 -!- augur_ has changed nick to psygnisfive. 03:35:17 so 0 = [] and 1 = [[]], 2 = [[], [[]]]? 03:36:28