00:00:32 but from this i think its relatively trivial to reduce this to a non-ring based system 00:00:41 psygnisfive: until you get to flow. 00:00:45 given that the ring positions are unaffected by operations. 00:01:11 unless i dont understannd PAdd 00:02:09 you understand it 00:02:15 assuming i understand it 00:02:44 i dont see anything that says what padd does. 00:02:49 i mean 00:02:55 not padd itself but the program position pointer. 00:04:34 what do you expect from the spec of a "Turning tarpit" 00:04:46 is the ppp the bit of the source thats currently being read? 00:04:46 oklopol: i think thats intentional. 00:04:55 oh 00:04:56 psygnisfive: i would say so. 00:04:57 dang :D 00:04:59 that's what a pc is 00:05:00 ok. 00:05:08 oklopol: think about it 00:05:11 you TURN the wheel 00:05:12 get it? 00:05:13 turning tarpit 00:05:28 ... 00:05:35 .. 00:05:52 stop rubbing it in my face, that was the stupidest mistake i've made in a month 00:05:54 again, i dont see why this is so terribly interesting. 00:06:00 psygnisfive: it's not 00:06:08 or not-gimmicky. 00:06:16 well i'm not sure what you mean by that 00:06:37 the only way in which PAdd and If can affect flow unpredictably is when you jump to a position thats in the middle of an instruction that itself was for something else. 00:06:46 -!- Corun has joined. 00:07:01 psygnisfive: because moving the wheel is extra insructions 00:07:03 so you have to account for that 00:07:05 by adding on 00:07:08 which requires more instructions 00:07:08 etc 00:07:12 but moving the wheel doesnt affect where you jump to. 00:07:20 well, it does in that regard, yes. 00:07:23 yes. to do arithmetic on the jump address. 00:07:27 or conditionals on it 00:07:54 so in that respect moving the wheels can be tricky. 00:07:59 except the wheel is a gimmick. 00:08:11 psygnisfive: most things are gimmicks 00:08:16 this one happens to make a certain area - jumping - harder 00:08:18 i dont like most things. 00:08:19 and quite interesting 00:08:24 nothing has to be the end of the world in new paradigm form 00:08:28 it's mildly interesting for that one trait 00:08:32 its not interesting if its a gimmick. 00:08:37 but thats just me. 00:08:50 oh shut up, you're just fucking with terminology now 00:09:23 i mean, we can pile gimmick on top of gimmick until the language is so impossible to code in that it requires a novel the length of war and peace just to store a single number into the current register 00:09:31 but that doesnt make it interesting. 00:09:38 it makes it pointlessly gimmicky. 00:09:46 thats not what wheel is. 00:09:51 but it is. 00:09:58 :) 00:10:00 it's not and you're being an idiot 00:10:01 :| 00:10:05 without the wheel, you no longer have the monumental "omg the wheel fucks it all up!" thing 00:10:28 psygnisfive: i think ill apply that to reactance 00:10:32 i haven't seen a bijection yet 00:10:42 without the reactance programming, you no longer have the monumental ! 00:10:46 reactance is gimmicky and sucks! 00:10:52 doesn't. work. 00:10:53 you can apply that reactions and you're correct. reactance ISNT supposed to be interesting. 00:11:07 oh, so its meant to be boring and plain 00:11:11 so why the fuck are you bothering with it 00:11:44 because i like designing languages. 00:11:57 theres a reason i dont spam about reactance and try to keep it to separate rooms. 00:12:02 or did you forget about that? 00:12:04 -!- calamari has quit ("Leaving"). 00:12:18 well sorry for filling this room with conversation 00:12:29 its much nicer when its dead 00:12:30 conversation about stupid shit is not conversation worth having. 00:12:41 :D 00:12:42 psygnisfive: excuse me, you are in #esoteric. 00:12:45 no, it was much nicer when we were actually discussing interesting things like "negative lists" 00:12:52 name aside 00:12:53 psygnisfive: get the sand off your vagina 00:13:08 also, i'd say that since you spend half the time talking about gay sex, psygnisfive, that's pretty stupid shit that's not worth talking about on an irc channel related to esoteric programming languages 00:13:10 weird, I know 00:13:36 hey, that's not fair, he occasionally fights with you and calls you names. 00:13:45 oh, that's true 00:13:48 and mocks her for her age and gender. 00:13:49 marginally more productive, i guess 00:14:13 :) 00:14:21 im sorry, i just find it terribly frustrating that the sum total of esoteria is the same shit over and over 00:14:28 esoteria? 00:14:30 esoterica? 00:14:36 you get the point. 00:14:52 im not aware of any other language using a rotating instruction wheel and the implications on control flow it has 00:15:00 just because you don't personally find it a very interesting idea doesnt' mean that it sucks 00:15:06 it just means that you're interested in other things. 00:15:18 anyway, psygnisfive, are you saying graphica isn't an awesome idea? 00:15:24 the wheel is a gimmick, as we've already established. 00:15:28 graphica is fucking perfect, man. 00:15:40 without the wheel, the implications for control are reduced drastically, if not entirely. 00:15:52 nevermind that TWO wheels is entirely superfluous as well. 00:15:56 psygnisfive: gimmicks can lead to interesting ideas. tons of interesting esolangs come from gimmicks. it doesn't suck just because it builds stuff upon a gimmick and finds an interesting implication 00:15:59 i havent looked at graphica. 00:16:17 yeah then it's just a computed goto, which is something not really any language has as the only way to do flow control 00:16:19 i dont see any interesting implications coming out of the wheels. 00:16:43 at least i haven't heard about other than err bob (?) and yabc 00:16:46 psygnisfive: that's fine. that doesn't mean we haven't, and it doesn't mean you should go on a huge rant about how much it sucks 00:16:49 other than having to be purposelessly mindful of the number of operations to use. 00:16:53 i mean, cmon, think about that 00:17:09 the interesting part of the language is that you have to fight with the language to get it to work. 00:17:36 i see most interest in developing stuff for wheel that escapes the high-level tokenization you assume everyone will do for it 00:17:39 psygnisfive: yes. that can lead to intersting ideas 00:17:41 whether you like it or not 00:17:45 hey, it takes two people to argue. i said it was gimmicky. if you'd just said "yeah but so what" we wouldnt be here, would we. 00:17:52 uh 00:17:54 tusho 00:17:57 that WAS the interesting idea 00:18:09 it didnt lead to one, it WAS one 00:18:10 the interesting idea that comes out of it is the implication on its only form of control flow. 00:18:16 "fighting with the language" is the interesting idea of Whirl 00:18:20 no 00:18:20 ist not 00:18:21 :D 00:18:25 apparent it is 00:18:34 since its the only thing that the wheels force you to do 00:18:54 you have to constantly be mindful of how many instructions youve used so that you dont get caught in the tangled web of instruction count 00:18:58 thats it 00:19:01 this is a conversation filled with an infuriatingly large amount of stupid 00:19:11 i agree 00:19:16 lets just have an orgy. 00:19:19 ::rapes tusho:: 00:19:35 :D 00:19:40 man, this would've been a great discussion for a podcast, do you realize that? 00:19:45 we would've had so many people listening 00:19:48 psygnisfive: what, 'no fuck you' 00:19:49 :P 00:19:51 'no, fuck YOU' 00:19:56 at least mien would have ended with 'NOMADS!!!' 00:19:59 *mine 00:19:59 probably to say im an idiot, but THINK OF THE LISTENERSHIP 00:20:17 psygnisfive: have you done much with esolangs, btw? a lot of the fun is exactly in just the fact it's a fucking mindrape :) 00:20:42 thats what i dont like about esolangs-as-they-are. theres too much mindrape, and not enough mindfuck. 00:21:19 psygnisfive: sez the person who will only ever rape me 00:21:21 well true, and quite well said, almost wanna quote that :P 00:21:22 esolangs arent actually esoteric, they're just pointlessly difficult. 00:21:33 well im a bottom, so i dont need to rape oklopol 00:21:40 and you're 12, what else would you do to a 12 year old? 00:21:46 ooh I was just thinking how great it would be if I could just hear this conversation actually being talked 00:21:51 the accents 00:21:52 ah 00:21:58 :) 00:21:58 perv 00:22:07 we have to record that podcast tomorrow 00:22:11 it'd have to be talked 00:22:12 today though it's 00:22 and I am going in like five seconds. 00:22:26 if it were fought in person we'd just end up in an orgy! :O 00:22:28 :( 00:22:29 except tusho, he's too young 00:22:44 hmph 00:22:46 i am so left out 00:22:57 and his cock is too small. i mean, really, im sorry tusho, but 12 year old cock is way too small. 00:23:13 ok discussion entering uncanny valley. 00:23:13 yeah, so goddamn small it's ridiculous 00:23:23 what do you think about tusho's cock, lament? 00:23:28 lol wut 00:23:33 cock is like wine, it gets better with age, but after 30 or so years it starts going down hill. :( 00:23:43 * oklopol continues reading -> 00:24:42 Why are you reading the blank space to the right of yourself? 00:24:52 tusho: uncanny valley??? 00:25:01 it's starting to look so real it looks fake? o_O 00:25:24 ... 00:25:35 well, thats what the uncanny valley is. :( 00:25:40 i dont understand your usage! 00:25:49 The uncanny valley is when something realistic slowly goes from looking like a realistic object to looking like a very ill human. 00:25:57 Oh, I just realized I've had tusho on /ignore this whole time. 00:25:59 well thats sort of correct 00:26:07 hello ihope 00:26:17 damn 00:26:22 the previous must be funny without me 00:26:24 the uncanny valley is the phenomena where the "humanness" of an item increases steadily as it objectively becomes more human like 00:26:25 psygnisfive arguing with silence 00:26:37 up until just before it looks perfectly human 00:26:41 psygnisfive: the uncanny valley is the phenomena where the "pedophileness" of an item increases steadily as it objectively becomes more pedophile like 00:26:42 in this case 00:26:47 where it temporarily drops to looking completely weird 00:27:11 uh, tusho, that analogy is a poor one. :P 00:27:13 tusho: actually, quite boring. 00:27:18 infact 00:27:29 psygnisfive: i know 00:27:31 its terrible 00:27:33 that's why i love it 00:27:34 :D 00:27:39 to continue with it would require that just before something is infact 100% pedo-ish it has to LOOK completely not pedoish 00:27:41 esp. 00:27:46 since it implies that if you started 00:27:48 being totally pedophillic 00:27:51 it wouldn't be creepy any more 00:28:00 * ihope waits for the logs to load beyond 2005 00:28:00 ::kisses tusho passionately:: 00:28:13 is that where it stops being creepy? 00:28:15 tell me when 00:28:21 ::slides hand down tushos pants:: 00:28:25 am i there yet? 00:28:27 Ooh, they're to November... 00:28:38 AM I IN YOUR UNCANNY VALLEY? :O 00:28:46 psygnisfive: That's the most strained innuendo ever. 00:28:55 XD 00:29:26 "Are you a robot, baby? Because you're sure in my uncanny alley." 00:29:30 er 00:29:31 valley. 00:29:39 my innuendo is straining these pants, lemme tell ya 00:30:16 uncanny alley, a small street behind bars where drunkards fuck ugly pros because they look beautiful? 00:30:28 due to beer goggles? lighting? something? 00:31:37 Due to your face. 00:31:39 Bye for today. 00:31:44 D: 00:33:51 psygnisfive: Don't worry. 00:33:55 There will be rape and podcasts tomorrow. 00:34:09 Please tell whoever does the logs to put everything before this year in a separate directory. Right now I'm in September 2006. 00:35:37 February 2007... 00:37:27 Bye. 00:37:56 o.o 00:40:00 hrrrr 00:40:11 hey lilja. 00:40:12 sup. 00:40:35 mostly hrrrr 00:40:39 :p 00:40:48 hrrrr doesn't sound very fun. 00:41:03 Oh, the logs have stopped loading. 00:41:07 a prolonged version of the first syllable of the croatian word for "croatian"? 00:41:11 hmm 00:41:16 could be waffles also 00:41:21 mm waffles 00:41:31 -!- tusho has quit. 00:41:33 ::steals liljas waffles:: 00:41:50 that's rather skillful 00:41:58 since they're not ready 00:42:50 i stole them... 00:42:54 FROM THE FUTURE 00:43:00 :\ 00:43:19 I guess there's no sense in making them in that case 00:43:26 ofcourse there is! 00:43:28 hrrrr :( 00:43:40 not making them would destroy the universe 00:43:43 if you dont make them, then i couldn't have will eventually steal them 00:43:46 exactly! 00:43:48 i'd say better start making them :o 00:43:50 PARADOX! 00:43:50 bah 00:43:56 PADAROX 00:44:02 PAXAROD! 00:44:06 KURFUFFLE 00:44:11 hrr-rr? 00:44:25 hey hey hey hey hey 00:44:28 you know i dont speak finnish 00:44:36 hrr :( 00:44:50 take your crazy reindeer language outta here, this is IRC! 00:45:11 :< 00:45:22 ok fine the finnish can stay 00:45:28 hrrr! 00:45:39 The word "paradox" is already clumped together; there's nothing you can do with it. 00:45:48 Also, the "adox" is happy but the "par" is left out. 00:46:09 massage! 00:46:10 ----> 00:46:38 lüüposuonenää tïïuviasö kuunonëën 00:46:41 or whatever 00:47:08 The word "massage" clumps to "sagemas". "sagem" is happy, "as" is left out. 00:47:30 ihope, what are you doing? XD 00:48:01 "doing" clumps to "dogin"; in that, "do", "g" and "i" are happy while "n" is left out. 00:48:15 :D 00:48:22 ihope is on drugs 00:48:31 lilja how was my finnish? 00:48:35 were there enough vowels? 00:48:58 maybe the words should be longer 00:49:08 that was perfect finnish 00:49:11 :D 00:49:13 how did you do that? 00:49:15 I R FLUENT 00:49:42 "ihopewhat" clumps to "wihopehat", which is an odd case, as "wih" clashes, though you can do it into something like "w" left out, "i" happy, "hope" happy, "ha" left out, "t" happy. 00:49:42 be careful when mixing aou and äöy, they can't exist in the same word 00:50:02 in general 00:50:17 wihopehat sounds like Generic Native American 00:51:45 Hmph, all the words in that sentence clump to themselves except "sounds", which clumps to "soduns". And hey, the entire word "soduns" is happy. 00:51:54 wihopehat chumchukewaya utumqiquhejosiapata 00:52:16 (By the way, in the above, if you want to get picky, rather than "ha" being left out, the stem of the "h" is happy and the rest of "ha" is left out.) 00:52:31 ihope, what does all of this mean. 00:52:50 Oh, it's a thing I used to do. 00:52:55 tell me more. 00:53:00 My new thing is tapping out melodies on my teeth. 00:53:03 tell me about... your mother? 00:53:10 explain "happy" 00:53:23 also, who DOESNT use their mouth to make melodies? 00:53:43 please, dont shoot me under the table just because i asked you to tell me about your mother. 00:53:59 there was no mention of tortoises before hand. D: 00:54:00 I have five tooth-on-tooth positions that correspond to relative positions of notes, or four for simple melodies or six for complex ones. 00:55:08 Take a word, like "sounds", and split it up into chunks of alternating vowels and consonants: "so un d s". Stick the chunks together in reverse: "sdunso". Repeat until you've done it an even number of times and it's no longer changing, so "soduns". 00:55:43 wait, what? 00:55:54 an even number of times and its no longer changing? 00:56:01 Yes. 00:56:04 i dont understand 00:56:11 If you do the thing to "soduns" twice, you get "soduns" again. 00:56:20 oh i see. 00:57:13 do it until an even number of split-reverses leaves you back at the start of that series of split-reverses. 00:57:16 gotcha. 00:57:43 Yep. 00:58:09 The o-like letters are acemnorsuvwxz, the b-like letters are bhkp, the d-like letters are dq, and the l-like letters are fgijlty. A b-like letter is equivalent to an l-like letter and an o-like letter, and a d-like letter is equivalent to an o-like letter and an l-like letter. Strings of letters are happy if they consist of an l with an equal number of os on each side of it. 00:58:18 o-like? 00:58:31 whaaa 00:58:35 i dont follow :( 00:58:43 So "soduns" is "ooolooo", which has 3 letters on each side. 00:58:49 oh i see. 00:58:51 you're weird. :D 00:58:54 :-) 00:58:55 ooolooo 00:59:00 sounds like something oklopol would come up with 00:59:22 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 00:59:26 "oklopol" is "olololool", which is "olo" (happy), "l" (happy), "olo" (happy), "o" (left out), "l" (happy). 00:59:44 "olololool", definitely oklopol there. 00:59:55 needs more k tho. oklolool. 01:00:11 i would argue that "o" should be happy. 01:00:27 Then you'd be able to split everything up into ls and os, which would be happy. 01:00:33 on the grounds that since there are no l's, all the l's in the string have the same number of o's on either side. 01:00:34 :O 01:01:04 you is right. 01:01:09 but i like my reasoning. 01:01:14 :-) 01:01:27 Hmm, that gives kind of a different sense of happiness. 01:01:45 merely a superset of happiness 01:01:51 i think 01:01:56 my semantics professor loved that construction 01:02:06 all the Xes in {} are Y. 01:02:07 :O 01:02:07 Well, it seems you're thinking "oolooloo" would be happy, where in my system it wouldn't. 01:02:33 Hmm, so everybody that's nobody will be there! :-) 01:02:45 o, k and l are obviously oklopol letters. In "ololobot", "b" and "t" serve as oklopol letters, though they're not true oklopol letters, I think. 01:03:01 Ooh, I can okloize my nick. 01:03:07 we used to have to rigorously go over the idea of whether or not it could be true to say stuff like 01:03:08 -!- ihope has changed nick to lkoko. 01:03:31 well, i dont know like what 01:03:31 but 01:03:32 :P 01:03:37 predicating over an empty set 01:03:40 essentially 01:04:03 a lot of people in the class didnt get it 01:04:11 Yours is "kollololloo"! 01:04:27 are o, l, and k themselves? 01:04:41 that is, is oklopols "oklopol"? 01:05:10 oh but you said p is b-like 01:05:15 so it would atleast be oklobol 01:05:21 And k is b-like, not k-like. 01:05:27 haha 01:05:31 oblobol? 01:05:43 Yeah. :-) 01:05:53 that makes no sense :D 01:06:00 It's a bloopy version of oklopol. 01:08:17 Oh, I missed the fact that k and p are both oklopol letters. 01:08:51 ? 01:19:31 -!- TheBlunderbuss has joined. 01:30:51 o 01:33:27 should I write or sleep? 01:33:46 -!- TheBlunderbuss has left (?). 01:34:23 you should write! :o 01:34:26 sleep is lame! 01:34:39 but I'm quite sleepy 01:34:58 ok then sleep 01:35:09 hmm hmm 01:35:12 or, go into a hypnogogic state and get really fucked up visions then write them down 01:35:17 such a difficult decision 01:35:40 gaah 01:35:43 I'll write 01:37:12 lkoko: i do something with licence numbers 01:37:17 -!- lkoko has changed nick to ihope. 01:37:29 the finnish licence number is of the form CCC-NNN 01:37:34 C=character, N=number 01:37:44 Ooh, hypnogogic states are fun. 01:37:50 The C can be a letter or a number? 01:37:54 hypnogogic? 01:37:59 no, just a letter 01:38:01 sorry 01:38:28 well anyway 01:38:37 basically, you determine the order of the letter 01:38:38 s 01:38:55 and the idea is to get the number to have the digits in the same order 01:39:03 by doing incs and decs to them 01:39:57 so for AGC-645 you'd do something like 645 -> 545 -> 445 -> 455 -> 465 01:40:13 resulting in a score of 4 01:40:23 small scores are better than big ones 01:40:58 i do this to every licence number i see, usually, if i see no zeroes for a while, i get a bit frustrated 01:41:50 less complex than yours, sadly 01:42:07 i love discovering weird habits like this and letting them grow into obsessions 01:42:34 ihope, edison supposedly induced hypnogogic states :o 01:44:22 I feel sad 01:44:27 I have no odd habits 01:44:30 oklopol: oh, wonderful. :-) 01:44:36 lilja: it's not too late to get one! 01:44:39 except perhaps the hand touching thing 01:44:40 hmm 01:44:47 Pick an abstract thing. 01:45:26 tja, that'd be good 01:45:41 hrr-rr 01:46:13 i of course have tons of stuff i do without realizing, but this is the only one that actually requires any computation 01:46:21 the rest are mostly visual things 01:46:55 like finding convex covers, moving dots on the ceiling to form a circle and stuff like that 01:46:57 Like estimating whether a line through the laptop's plane of symmetry intersects a nearby glass? 01:47:01 oklopol: those aren't that weird 01:47:06 yeah 01:47:08 Oh. 01:47:26 lilja: indeed they aren't, as i said, simple visual things 01:47:43 ihope: yeah all kinds of intersections 01:48:00 but those are a bit less interesting than the reorderings, as i often have semi-complex rules for them 01:48:45 I was outside one day when I realized that if I lay on the ground and looked around in circles, the sky would appear to be enclosed by the ground, and weirdness would ensue. 01:49:26 heh 01:50:28