00:05:01 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:34:57 -!- tusho has quit.
00:40:32 -!- RedDak has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:59:17 -!- psygnisf_ has joined.
00:59:17 -!- psygnisfive has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
01:01:21 -!- psygnisf_ has changed nick to psygnisfive.
01:03:22 -!- lilja has quit ("KVIrc 3.2.0 'Realia'").
02:37:26 -!- olsner has joined.
02:37:41 -!- CakeProphet has joined.
02:59:42 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving").
03:13:26 <ihope> It seems that right now, compression is about trying to compress as much data as possible into as small a space as possible, and then decompression is achieved just by running the result or something.
03:14:26 <ihope> It'd be interesting to look at that from the other direction: compress something into a reasonable space using an obvious method, then work really hard to decompress it.
03:14:33 <pikhq> Compression is the act of taking a low-entropy source of data and transforming it into a high-entropy source of data in a reversible manner while reducing it in size. :p
03:17:12 <psygnisfive> what if we created a programming language where the language primitives are things that normally require complicated code in other languages, things that would be large composite entities
03:18:04 <psygnisfive> not that this is a good example but, maps are generally composite, formed by defining some map function, but what would it look like to have a language where map was a primitive operation
03:18:04 <ihope> Imagine putting every other line of "To Kill a Mockingbird" through a low-security hash function of sorts (CRC?), so that there's only one reasonable string that produces that output.
03:18:40 <ihope> psygnisfive: map as in map (+1) [2,3,5] = [3,4,6]?
03:18:50 <pikhq> psygnisfive: That's a terrible example.
03:19:03 <pikhq> Because functional languages *have* map as a primitive.
03:19:15 <ihope> You have one primitive: RSA encryption.
03:19:19 <psygnisfive> well but not really. i mean, in haskell, map is not a primitive, for instance
03:19:33 <ihope> What's the definition of "primitive"?
03:19:37 <psygnisfive> maybe in APL or some other languages perhaps
03:19:48 <psygnisfive> primitive as in the building blocks of the rest of the language
03:20:03 <psygnisfive> in old school lisp, for instance, the primitive operations were like
03:20:36 <ihope> I guess Haskell's primitives are pattern matching, lambdas, application, and Lots Of Other Stuff.
03:20:45 <psygnisfive> everything was built out of those primitives
03:21:19 <pikhq> I suggest the brainfuck interpreter as a primitve. :p
03:23:12 <ihope> I guess Malbolge is famous for being kind of like that.
03:23:21 <ihope> That's kind of the goal of esoteric programming, really. :-)
03:24:27 <psygnisfive> what, having a BF interpreter as a primitive operation? :P
03:25:29 <ihope> No, coming up with a language that uses insanely complex primitives to accomplish something relatively simple.
03:26:01 <pikhq> We do not implement standard arithmetic operators.
03:26:12 <pikhq> *Instead*, we only operate on matrixes.
03:26:24 <ihope> We implement ONLY standard arithmetic operators, and computation is done via rounding error.
03:26:47 <psygnisfive> array programming languages have array operations as primitives, right
03:27:06 <psygnisfive> so that if youre coding something that does a lot of array operations, its intuitive to code it in an array programming language
03:27:21 <ihope> I'm sure the IEEE standard floaty things are a rich computational environment...
03:28:01 <psygnisfive> but what is the extreme of that? what would it look like if we decided that an array programming language is too low level or something
03:28:23 <psygnisfive> what if Language X is to an array programming language what an array programming language is to an assembly language
03:29:48 <pikhq> Problem: nobody speaks of an 'array programming language'.
03:29:59 <pikhq> No more than someone speaks of an 'if programming language'.
03:30:24 <pikhq> Either it has arrays as primitives or they're trivial to implement.
03:30:39 <pikhq> ... Or it's called Malbolge.
03:32:13 <psygnisfive> pikhq: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Array_programming
03:33:25 <pikhq> I was, obviously, thinking of something completely different.
03:33:38 <pikhq> Sorry; I tend to think of those as vector operations.
03:33:43 <pikhq> Not array operations.
03:33:57 <psygnisfive> omg omg omg hey so i make my own tee-shirts
03:35:16 <pikhq> Amusingly, GNU C, courtesy of its attempts to support SSE and such well, is getting a bastardised set of array operations. :p
03:35:43 <psygnisfive> also, on a semi-related note, data-oriented programming is sexy
03:36:26 <pikhq> On an unrelated note, EBIL!!!-oriented programmig is sexy...
03:36:32 <pikhq> In a BDSM sort of way.
03:37:04 -!- ihope has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
03:38:17 <pikhq> You know, ones that require n-dimensional thought.
03:43:30 -!- ihope has joined.
03:43:32 <ihope> Firefox got a migraine.
03:45:36 <ihope> I don't know, but soon after the backwards typing it froze up and I had to restart it.
03:46:07 * ihope whistles innocently
03:46:29 <pikhq> There is no browser, there is only XUL.
03:47:22 <ihope> Using sed | nc | sed would be fun.
03:50:02 <pikhq> Stick some of the more odd Hello, World examples on there.
03:52:30 <psygnisfive> noo it has to be interesting not just a shitty tee-shirt
03:52:43 <psygnisfive> most of the tee-shirts im designing for the linguistics club at school are horrible puns
03:53:06 <pikhq> Might I recommend a Fugue program?
03:53:25 <psygnisfive> 3-inch-white thumbtacks (the flat disc-like ones), 7 of them, each with one of the 7 deadly sins written on it
03:55:29 <pikhq> How would you feel about sticking Var'aq on a shirt?
03:57:23 <pikhq> It's a programming language.
03:57:29 <pikhq> All the keywords are in Klingon.
03:57:44 <pikhq> It's twice-esoteric.
03:57:59 <pikhq> Oh, you want *funny*?
03:58:41 <pikhq> "Esoteric languages: because the levels of hell deserve it."
04:01:45 <pikhq> "Brainfuck? I hardly even know you!"]
04:03:27 <psygnisfive> im thinking a haskell one that mocks IO as being a useless complication. :T
04:04:49 <ihope> I wish Python had callCC.
04:05:20 <ihope> And handled it nicely, as there are many ways to handle it...
04:05:24 <pikhq> BTW, I'd just like to announce:
04:05:34 <pikhq> Sweetness; PEBBLE is in DMOZ.
04:13:00 <pikhq> Hrm. How many people here have websites in Dmoz?
04:13:06 <pikhq> psygnisfive: What?
04:14:24 * ihope frowns, as a binary tree is not made up of bits
04:14:59 * ihope frowns, as he's lame
04:15:18 <pikhq> God dammit; now I want to actually work more on my PEBBLE game engine.
04:17:41 * ihope frowns, as it's a pun
04:17:55 <ihope> I mean, a and b = not (not a or not b).
04:18:36 <ihope> So take the complement of each regular expression, alternate them, and take the complement of that, and see whether it's empty or not.
04:21:24 <ihope> And the valid characters in hostnames are letters, numbers, hyphen and dot. Yay.
04:21:53 <psygnisfive> wait, whats the complement of a regular expression??
04:26:59 <ihope> The regular expression that matches everything that one doesn't.
04:27:50 <ihope> The complement of /red/ is /|[^r].*|r[^e].*|re[^d].*|red..*/, I believe.
04:28:07 <ihope> And taking complements is really annoying. :-)
04:28:33 <ihope> Better to just have a complement operator, maybe.
04:30:53 <ihope> What's wrong with mine?
04:40:59 <pikhq> I propose a new feature for Perl regexps. ^{{: regexp :}}
04:41:04 <pikhq> Complement of regexp.
04:41:13 <pikhq> (please say they don't already use that)
04:41:57 <psygnisfive> just have a function that returns an object that behaves exactly like a regexp
04:43:32 <ihope> My goal here is to see if two regexes overlap, and to see if one is a subset of another.
04:43:34 <psygnisfive> then this: test( complement_of_expression, string )
04:43:42 <pikhq> ihope: I hate you.
04:43:48 <pikhq> And all regexp fans.
04:44:09 <psygnisfive> so your test function could just look at the first arg to see if its a complement or not
04:44:18 <ihope> There is no alternative. Wait, there is: wildcards.
04:45:53 <pikhq> Yes, there is an alternative.
04:46:47 <pikhq> With enough if statements, you can do just the same thing as the regexp. . . Of course, by the time that you have done so, you will be stark raving mad.
04:47:44 <ihope> Do this with if statements: ihope/.*
04:47:57 <ihope> I guess "if it begins with ihope/".
04:48:28 * ihope begins conjuring up an appropriate regex to hit pikhq with
04:49:17 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep").
04:52:45 <pikhq> I don't want to be stark raving mad, however.
04:52:54 <pikhq> And it was a gigantic fucking joke.
04:53:06 <pikhq> Yet oddly true. Yay, Turing.
04:54:53 <pikhq> It's midnight; I don't have to make sense.
04:56:11 <ihope> Your regex is almost ready.
04:56:20 <pikhq> And I ain't touching it.
04:58:30 <ihope> /Gr((er?)*e(n(R(er?)*en)*R(er?)*e(a(p(er?)*e|n(R(er?)*en)*R(er?)*ea|a)p(er?)*e(n(R(er?)*en)*R(er?)*er|r)|r)|a(p(er?)*e|n(R(er?)*en)*R(er?)*ea|a)p(er?)*e(n(R(er?)*en)*R(er?)*er|r)|r))?/
05:03:52 <pikhq> If I were in a looney bin.
05:07:17 -!- pikhq has quit ("leaving").
06:23:59 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat").
06:28:58 <psygnisfive> we should design a language where the primitive operations are operations that inherently are parallel
07:20:26 -!- dbc has quit (Client Quit).
07:23:40 -!- dbc has joined.
07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended).
08:00:00 -!- clog has joined.
08:00:46 <psygnisfive> idea for complement-regexps: forget expressing the complement using another regexp
08:00:58 <psygnisfive> just build the automata for the positive expression
08:01:38 <psygnisfive> that way the positive and the negative are clearly related
08:02:00 <psygnisfive> and you wouldnt need a special method of figuring out the complement automata
08:15:46 <fizzie> /|[^r].*|r[^e].*|re[^d].*|red..*/ cannot be a complement of /red/, because (using the usual "matches anywhere" semantics, not the "endpoints are tied to the ends of the string" ones) both match "redx". For the latter type of matching it might work.
08:19:07 <fizzie> As for Perl, usually you just use !/.../ to complement regexps, or maybe the zero-width negative lookahead (?!...) thing if it's inside a larger regex.
08:21:36 <psygnisfive> yes, obviously what he meant was that /^$|^[^r].*$|^r[^e].*$|^re[^d].*$|^red..*$/ is the complement to /^red$/
08:22:17 <fizzie> If you just flip the accept/reject states, your complemented regexps end up having an undefined "which part of the string matched" property. Not that the "which part matched" result given by an explicitly complemented expression would be very useful, either.
08:22:49 <psygnisfive> well i wasnt assuming that thered be some response other than booleans
08:23:06 <psygnisfive> so there'd be no relevance to "which part matched"
08:23:46 <psygnisfive> obviously any non-zero pattern will have atleast one part of a string matching its complement
08:24:02 <psygnisfive> given that its complement includes the zero string, and thus theres atleast one zero-string match in any string
08:24:33 <psygnisfive> so i dont think the "which part matches" is relevant, since most complements will always match the zero string on all inputs
08:24:59 <psygnisfive> the idea i think was the match whole strings, from beginning to end
08:25:16 <fizzie> Yes, it certainly sounds a lot more useful.
09:08:42 -!- RedDak has joined.
09:11:56 -!- olsner has joined.
09:16:35 <AnMaster> BAD: the top of the stack after y isn't equal to what 1y pushes
09:16:55 <AnMaster> Deewiant, while I know mycology doesn't do Funge-108, I still don't see how that error can happen
09:25:38 <AnMaster> " This means any isolated argument can be a null string, but no two consecutive arguments may be null strings - a rather contrived scenario, null string arguments being rare in themselves.
09:25:38 <AnMaster> The first string is the name of the Funge source program being run."
09:25:44 <AnMaster> that is from Funge-98 Deewiant ^
09:25:55 <AnMaster> which means you can be sure to not have two of them in a row
09:41:50 <Deewiant> AnMaster: yeah, but still: foo 0 0 0 <- the 0gnirts "foo" followed by an empty string, or the 0gnirts "foo" followed by the end of the environment variables
09:45:02 -!- dbc has quit (Remote closed the connection).
09:45:22 -!- dbc has joined.
09:48:07 <AnMaster> 3 in a row == null + end of args
09:48:25 <AnMaster> 4 in a row == end of args, end of env
09:48:41 <AnMaster> Deewiant, anyway 108 will have lengths in it
09:58:18 <Deewiant> AnMaster: foo 0 0 0 0 <- "foo", end of args, end of env or "foo", null, end of args
09:58:52 <Deewiant> foo 0 0 0 0 0 <- "foo", end of args, null envvar, end of env or "foo", null, end of args, end of env
09:59:45 <AnMaster> that can't be "foo", null, end of args
09:59:58 <AnMaster> because that would be "foo" 0 0 0
10:00:23 <AnMaster> Deewiant, and null env isn't valid afaik
10:00:32 <AnMaster> because the format is NAME=VALUE
10:00:44 <AnMaster> null env variable just isn't valid
10:01:06 <Deewiant> AnMaster: args are terminated by double null
10:01:16 <Deewiant> "foo", null is two zeroes, end of args makes it four
10:01:24 <Deewiant> env is terminated by a single null
10:01:59 <Deewiant> AnMaster: and the format is NAME=VALUE followed by null, so if there's no name or value it could theoretically be null
10:01:59 <AnMaster> a series of strings, each terminated by a null, the series terminated by an additional null, containing the environment variables. (env)
10:02:11 <AnMaster> that will be double null at the end
10:02:21 <AnMaster> "a series of sequences of characters (strings), each terminated by a null, the series terminated by an additional double null, "
10:02:55 <Deewiant> in any case, it's either a) damn hard to parse it always correctly or b) impossible
10:03:14 <Deewiant> so unless you can write Befunge code that handles all cases correctly, I'm not going to bother
10:03:51 <AnMaster> so working on fixing ccbi and mycology? :)
10:04:03 <Deewiant> no, but I'm working on working on it ;-)
10:04:15 <Deewiant> everything in mycology is correct except for the 3k4?
10:04:27 <AnMaster> Deewiant, you use k in some other places
10:04:44 <Deewiant> s/everything/every place where k is checked/
10:04:58 <AnMaster> BAD: 0y pushes wrong stack stack size
10:05:22 <AnMaster> Deewiant, also I suspect BAD: "a b" takes more than 5 ticks
10:05:25 <Deewiant> but all the k tests that currently show GOOD for CCBI, except for 3k4, are correct
10:05:39 <AnMaster> Deewiant, um that makes no sense?
10:05:59 <AnMaster> Deewiant, with CCBI style k everything says GOOD in my version of mycology (from last week)
10:06:12 <AnMaster> BAD: 3k4 leaves more than 3 fours on stack
10:06:13 <Deewiant> AnMaster: !!!!! get what I'm saying, will ya
10:06:17 <Deewiant> GOOD: ak47k$ leaves 3 fours on stack
10:06:19 <AnMaster> BAD: "a b" takes more than 5 ticks
10:06:20 <Deewiant> GOOD: 3k4 leaves 3 fours on stack
10:06:22 <AnMaster> BAD: 0y pushes wrong stack stack size
10:06:28 <Deewiant> with the exception of the last
10:06:37 <AnMaster> Deewiant, um.... good question
10:06:46 <AnMaster> that one should be wrong I guess?
10:07:01 <Deewiant> so it does 11 pushes and 8pops
10:07:15 <Deewiant> that's why I added the 3k4 test originally :-P
10:07:45 <Deewiant> what's cfunge's opinion on that
10:07:58 <AnMaster> Deewiant, cfunge for some reason gets a GOOD from that
10:08:01 <Deewiant> I guess Mike would have complained if it were wrong
10:08:03 <AnMaster> but I'm not sure that is correct
10:08:20 <Deewiant> and actually yeah, I think he reasoned about it in his mail to me
10:08:20 <AnMaster> BAD: "a b" takes more than 5 ticks
10:08:33 <AnMaster> you get desynced before there I bet
10:09:11 <AnMaster> Deewiant, because I get the right value when having CCBI k
10:16:08 <Deewiant> well, you could blame it on the tides of the moon if you wanted to :-P
10:16:41 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well I debugged the code in question and it only happens if I change the k
10:16:47 <AnMaster> so I assume it must be related to k right?
10:16:58 <Deewiant> of course, goes without saying?
10:17:18 <AnMaster> could be a hidden bug before, but I don't think so
10:17:34 <AnMaster> due to it checking k just before
10:19:25 <AnMaster> Deewiant, you have a bug on line 91 too
10:19:55 <AnMaster> a"sehsup y1 tahw ot lauqe t'nsi y retfa kcats eht fo pot eht :DAB"88*k,@
10:20:09 <Deewiant> yeah, and the reason those are generally used is because there's no room for >:#,_...
10:20:21 <AnMaster> Deewiant, you just need to adjust them by one
10:20:31 <AnMaster> on line 113 you got another one:
10:20:32 <Deewiant> yeah, so add "1-" there which takes two cells
10:21:13 <AnMaster> there is two sapces on line 113
10:21:23 <Deewiant> well that's an addition anyway
10:21:45 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well I just point them out, you need to fix every k really :P
10:21:56 <Deewiant> yeah yeah, thanks for the info
10:22:05 <Deewiant> there's bound to be a few incorrect outputs left with the BADs anyway :-P
10:22:10 <Deewiant> not like I'm going to test them all
10:28:31 <AnMaster> Will continue to produce textual output, so strings must work correctly where concurrency is concerned: "a b" should take 5 ticks, 'a should take 1.
10:28:34 <AnMaster> BAD: "a b" takes more than 5 ticks
10:28:50 <AnMaster> how many spaces are you talking about?
10:29:01 <AnMaster> they differ between the two texts
10:29:20 <Deewiant> because the first says that the code assumes that one space works correctly
10:29:28 <Deewiant> whereas the second is testing that two spaces work correctly
10:31:34 <AnMaster> Deewiant, the two space could actually be a bug in cfunge, but then why did it work with the different k?
10:35:57 -!- tusho has joined.
11:10:05 <tusho> Ooh, there's another feature I can add to botte.
11:10:20 <tusho> An #esoteric link log. You can just add a link to it in IRC with a simple botte command.
11:10:53 <tusho> AnMaster: ESO's (ostensibly, but really I'm the one doing it) bot for #esoteric
11:11:15 <AnMaster> tusho, you forgot to join #eso btw
11:11:38 <AnMaster> tusho, well he wasn't here yesterday was he?
11:11:40 <tusho> anyway, botte (in the future will:) - does logs with awesome search - has useful interwebby stuff like a google/wikipedia lookup - and now this link log thing
11:12:01 <tusho> AnMaster: He was doing stuff maybe?
11:13:37 <tusho> oh wow, ellio.tt is available XD
11:13:50 <tusho> i'm not lame enough, though
11:36:48 -!- ais523 has joined.
11:37:30 <tusho> ais523: so are you.
11:37:45 <ais523> well, I walked 5 miles to get to an internet connection this morning
11:37:48 <ais523> normally I take the bus
11:37:54 <tusho> ais523: uphill both ways?
11:38:01 <ais523> tusho: no, it's mostly on the flat
11:38:59 <ais523> I've been having problems with sleep rhythm
11:39:15 <ais523> mostly I've been awake all night and asleep all day
11:39:31 <ais523> so at 6am I tried to think of a method of transport sufficiently slow that this place would have opened by the time I reached it
11:40:08 <ais523> and at 7:20 I set off, arriving about 9:05
11:40:47 <ais523> unfortunately I forgot it was Saturday
11:40:58 <ais523> so I spent a couple of hours sitting on a bench outside my department
11:41:03 <ais523> using the wifi through the walls
11:43:42 -!- olsner_ has joined.
11:45:08 -!- oklopol has joined.
11:52:31 <ais523> oh and btw the door to my department is still broken, that's why I couldn't just use that
11:53:47 <tusho> ais523: on another note, I've almost got a qdb up
11:53:55 <ais523> what does the 'almost' mean here?
11:54:01 <tusho> it's almost written
11:54:17 <tusho> I believe this is called "getting off one's lazy buttocks and writing code".
11:54:27 <tusho> but yeah, it's not far off completion
11:54:46 <ais523> in my experience that could be anywhere from (you thought of a name for it) to the (design's there in your head) to (I've written some code but it doesn't work) to (the code is perfect but I can't put it online without a good advertising slogan)
11:55:03 <tusho> (I've written part of the code and am writing more)
11:55:58 <ais523> I had an idea of how to write a Grand Unified Repo Viewer, by the way
11:56:05 <ais523> that works the same way as darcs2git.py
11:56:17 <tusho> i've explained why that doesn't really work :)
11:56:21 <ais523> basically, there's a protocol which all versioning systems use
11:56:28 <tusho> my way of a plugin that controls what to call things and how to present information is more flexible
11:56:34 <tusho> because it'll work with any vcs, no matter how weird
11:56:37 <ais523> tusho: not by converting the repos
11:56:38 <tusho> it could work with mediawiki!
11:56:42 <tusho> ais523: yes, I know what you mean
11:56:52 <ais523> I mean, I looked at darcs2git's source and wanted to write the repo viewer the same way
11:57:10 <ais523> it's because all versioning systems are capable of giving you a snapshot of any version, direct in your filesystem
11:57:18 <ais523> so you just tell it to give you that snapshot and use that
11:57:26 <tusho> yes, but you can display so much more useful info
11:57:34 <tusho> you can't make it generic
11:57:42 <tusho> a plugin-based architechture basically solves it
11:57:46 <tusho> because it can be anything
11:57:49 <ais523> darcs2git.py simply works by reverting the repo to each revision in turn, and recording it with git
11:58:20 <tusho> set :haml, {:output => :html5, :escape_html => true, :attr_wrapper => '"'}
11:58:27 <tusho> for some reason I can't fathom
11:58:45 <ais523> tusho: given that I still don't know Ruby, I'm unlikely to be able to help
11:58:56 <ais523> I have nothing really against it, just never got round to learning it...
11:59:43 <tusho> ais523: it helps to think of it as a Lisp created larry wall-style, with smalltalk's object system, some tidying up and a little bit of weird stuff
11:59:51 <tusho> instead of, say, similar to python
12:00:45 * ais523 boggles at the concept of Larry Wall creating his own version of Lisp
12:00:55 <tusho> ais523: TOENAIL CLIPPINGS MIXED WITH OATMEAL
12:00:57 <ais523> it would probably be something like HTML shorttags
12:01:09 <tusho> Fun fact: Ruby was initially matzlisp.
12:01:13 <tusho> That's why it has call/cc, really.
12:01:23 <ais523> the parens wouldn't even match half the time due to all the abbreviations
12:06:38 <tusho> ais523: here's a fun bit of evil for you -
12:06:47 <tusho> 'rubygems' is ruby's package manager thing
12:07:06 <tusho> to work it has to change how 'require' works (it doesn't use the regular path for libs, something about wanting to allow multiple gems to be installed)
12:07:18 <tusho> (which is reasonable, ruby libs tend to change drastically between version and other libs need the old one)
12:07:26 <AnMaster> <ais523> basically, there's a protocol which all versioning systems use
12:07:34 <tusho> how can it add a commandline parameter to ruby?
12:07:38 <tusho> -r means 'require'
12:07:48 <tusho> ubygems.rb is just require "rubygems"
12:08:35 <ais523> I was wondering for a moment if it was going to do something like the MySQL ANALYSE/ANALYZE thing
12:09:08 <ais523> Name: 'PROCEDURE ANALYSE'
12:09:26 <ais523> and both of those commands are the only hit for the help
12:09:34 <ais523> they both have to be spelt as given there, or they don't work
12:09:46 <tusho> ais523: do they do the same thing?
12:10:25 <ais523> although they're both to do with optimisation
12:10:38 <AnMaster> ais523, I will get a repo browser up once I can figure how to make loggerhead work with lighttpd
12:10:56 <AnMaster> I can only find instructions for apache
12:11:56 <AnMaster> <tusho> ubygems.rb is just require "rubygems"
12:12:07 <tusho> AnMaster: doesn't hurt anyone, does it :P
12:12:17 <tusho> instead of -rrubygems
12:12:21 <tusho> but it's not like it goes in anyone's code
12:12:25 <tusho> just RUBYOPT=-rubygems
12:12:26 <ais523> that's as bad as libiberty.a
12:12:29 <tusho> or ruby -rubygems script.rb
12:12:38 <ais523> but that sort of trick is arguably not really a problem
12:12:41 <ais523> just interesting creative naming
12:12:43 <tusho> rubygems is so common that you might as well think of it as a built-in thing
12:12:46 <AnMaster> it's like nroff's -man or -mandoc
12:12:48 <tusho> there are libs with no downloads, just gems :P
12:12:54 <tusho> although mostly they're migrating to github
12:12:59 <tusho> which builds gems automatically
12:13:07 <ais523> did you see that text adventure written in cpp that won a prize in the IOCCC once?
12:13:07 <tusho> with a special source, as user-repo
12:13:14 <ais523> you gave commands as command line options to cpp
12:13:14 <AnMaster> <ais523> that's as bad as libiberty.a
12:13:24 <ais523> AnMaster: just the name, so it's -liberty on the command line
12:13:28 <tusho> it's a gnu lib thing
12:13:28 <ais523> AnMaster: I don't know, but it's quite common
12:13:39 <AnMaster> ais523, I seen a libost once, so you had -lost on command line
12:13:48 <tusho> AnMaster: I was gonna make an irc lib in c once
12:13:51 <ais523> the trick was that everything started with D
12:14:05 <ais523> so you would write cpp prog.c -Drink -Daiquiri
12:14:05 -!- oklofok has joined.
12:14:09 <AnMaster> anyway libost is quite funny in Swedish
12:14:16 <ais523> or cpp prog.c -Drop -Dwarf -Down -Drain
12:14:32 <tusho> pronounced 'lib oh ser'
12:14:41 <ais523> hmm... libink.a for a FFI?
12:16:28 <AnMaster> /usr/share/groff/1.19.2/tmac/mandoc.tmac
12:16:28 <AnMaster> /usr/share/groff/1.19.2/tmac/an-old.tmac
12:16:28 <AnMaster> /usr/share/groff/1.19.2/tmac/man.tmac
12:16:28 <AnMaster> /usr/share/groff/1.19.2/tmac/andoc.tmac
12:16:28 <AnMaster> /usr/share/groff/1.19.2/tmac/an.tmac
12:17:09 <tusho> ais523: what were those two unicode arrows without tails you found?
12:17:19 <AnMaster> in fact man, mandoc and an all maps to andoc
12:17:22 <ais523> sorry, I was momentarily taken aback there because mso_ is used as the name mangling prefix for all the broken HTML that Word produces
12:17:27 <ais523> so I have a bit of a bad reaction to it
12:17:41 <ais523> tusho: not sure offhand, but I can find them easily enough I think
12:17:47 <tusho> ais523: thanks, they don't show up on google
12:17:51 <tusho> not in 'arrows' or 'arrows supplement a'
12:17:56 <tusho> thanks, what about the up ones?
12:18:03 <ais523> they're in "Geometric Shapes"
12:18:07 <ais523> because they're triangles not arrows
12:19:08 <ais523> ◢ ◣ ◤ ◥ is the nearest I can get
12:19:16 <ais523> but they're right-angled not equilateral
12:19:32 <tusho> I'll stick with ↑ and ↓ I think
12:19:35 <tusho> looks nicer on the os x buttons
12:19:36 <AnMaster> ais523, eh? I would probably understand that in Swedish, but not in English
12:19:53 <ais523> AnMaster: a right-angled triangle has one angle which is 90 degrees
12:20:01 <ais523> an equilateral angle has all three angles at 60 degrees
12:20:17 <AnMaster> so all edges are equally long too then?
12:20:30 <AnMaster> right then it is liksidig triangel in Swedish
12:20:36 <ais523> equilateral is slightly munged Latin for equal sides
12:20:50 <AnMaster> which means "equalsides triangle"
12:23:46 <ais523> Shove's my idea for a lang which I came up with when trying to merge Befunge and Underload
12:23:51 <ais523> although it isn't really that like either
12:24:00 <ais523> basically, it has a stack of strings
12:24:05 <ais523> and a 2-D playfield of characters
12:24:22 <ais523> there are 10 commands plus NOP, probably eventually I'll do IO too
12:24:28 <ais523> but there are only effectively four different commadns
12:24:43 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
12:25:03 <ais523> actually, only effectively three different commands
12:25:04 -!- oklopol has joined.
12:25:20 <ais523> you have ' and " which do the same thing as in INTERCAL, sort of
12:25:29 <ais523> they're both string delimiters
12:25:37 <ais523> and you can nest a ' string inside a " string and vice versa
12:25:52 -!- oklofok has quit (Connection reset by peer).
12:25:59 <ais523> so writing 'a"b"c'"e'f'g" pushes two strings on the stack
12:26:07 <ais523> as does 'a"b'c'd"e''f'
12:26:20 <ais523> that's like () in Underload or "" in Befunge
12:26:36 <ais523> then there's ^ < v > which do the same thing as in Befunge
12:26:49 <ais523> finally, there are four "shove commands"
12:26:56 <ais523> which I'm having problems thinking up letters for
12:27:08 <ais523> basically, each shove command points to a square
12:27:19 <ais523> four variants, one pointing in each direction
12:27:27 <ais523> and they take a string from the stack and put it in the playfield
12:27:43 <ais523> the first char of the string goes in the location the shove command points to
12:27:56 <ais523> all successive chars of the strings are put in successive locations moving in the same direction as the IP
12:28:07 <ais523> and existing cells aren't deleted, they're just pushed out of the way
12:28:15 <ais523> AnMaster: I think so, I think you can compile Underload minus output into it
12:42:55 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
12:44:59 -!- oklofok has joined.
13:07:53 <Deewiant> oh nice, the cat's-eye diag3.b98 runs "type diag3c.b98 | more" and "cat diag3c.b98 | more" to test = :-D
13:08:38 <ais523> ah yes, 'more' is another command that's the same on DOS-based and POSIX-based shell languages
13:08:54 <ais523> type diag3c.b98 | more would be interesting on POSIX though
13:08:58 -!- lilja has joined.
13:09:07 <ais523> because type does do something, just not the same as DOS does
13:09:17 <Deewiant> and on my windows, I have both type and cat available
13:09:25 <Deewiant> so I don't get the expected output which includes "Bad command or file name" ;-)
13:14:07 <ais523> the same would happen on my Windows computer, if for some unusual reason I was using it at the time
13:14:11 <ais523> maybe to test C-INTERCAL on DOS
13:15:48 <ais523> ugh, Cygwin's installer needs to download packages itself
13:15:58 <ais523> so what if my only Internet-connected computers run Linux?
13:16:13 <ais523> maybe I'll have to run Cygwin under Wine, and copy the directory tree over...
13:19:08 <AnMaster> <ais523> type diag3c.b98 | more would be interesting on POSIX though <-- yes
13:19:21 <AnMaster> sh: type: diag3c.b98: not found
13:19:44 <ais523> AnMaster: well, the file would exist
13:20:30 <ais523> oh, of course, it wouldn't be executable
13:20:34 <ais523> so type would give a not-found
13:21:06 <AnMaster> ais523, and current directory wouldn't be in path
13:21:12 <AnMaster> so it would be not-found still
13:21:48 <ais523> except that . is usually in my path because I do a lot of programming
13:21:55 <ais523> I remove it in circumstances where it causes problems
13:22:03 <AnMaster> ais523, well I do a lot of programming but NEVER put it in my PATH
13:22:15 <tusho> NEVER!! HE NEVER DOES IT!! THE WORLD IS ENDING!!!
13:22:18 <AnMaster> I have no problem typing ./cfunge
13:22:20 <tusho> tone down the caps maybe.
13:22:26 <tusho> not the end of the world
13:22:57 -!- Comtech2 has joined.
13:23:03 <ais523> AnMaster: why not? Does it break your system to have . in your path? Are you worried about security risks?
13:23:42 <AnMaster> I'm not just worried, I'm paranoid
13:23:50 <ais523> ah, that would explain it
13:23:56 <ais523> . in the path isn't insecure if you know what you're doing
13:24:16 <tusho> you just need to put it at the end
13:24:25 <tusho> unless you think someone's going to put a binary called 'sl' in your current dir
13:24:26 <Comtech2> that is what i do, put it at the end
13:24:29 <tusho> and you don't already have an sl alias
13:24:38 <tusho> in which case, you're not paranoid, you're mr. tin foil hat
13:25:18 <tusho> AnMaster: common typo of ls
13:25:25 <ais523> well, there are things like find being insecure with . in teh path
13:25:35 <ais523> tusho: I don't typo sl very often at all
13:25:41 <tusho> ais523: yes, but it is common
13:25:46 <ais523> otoh I often type la by mistake and even more often type l by mistake
13:25:54 <ais523> as in, l return s rather than ls return
13:26:07 <AnMaster> ld is the most common typo of it for me
13:26:17 <ais523> AnMaster: well, ld actually does something
13:26:25 <ais523> I thought la would too but apparently it doesn't
13:26:43 <ais523> load a library, possibly
13:27:01 <ais523> here's an interesting question: why do people use tar rather than ar?
13:27:10 <ais523> ar was invented for the purpose that people use tar for, tar wasn't
13:27:44 <AnMaster> ais523, and that is interesting about tar/ar
13:27:55 <AnMaster> ar: supported targets: elf64-x86-64 elf32-i386 a.out-i386-linux efi-app-ia32 efi-app-x86_64 elf64-little elf64-big elf32-little elf32-big srec symbolsrec tekhex binary ihex
13:28:11 <Comtech2> true,,,tar was originally designed for backing up files to tape....
13:28:20 <ais523> whereas ar just lumps files together
13:28:23 <AnMaster> so what format do you use when you don't want an archive for /usr/lib
13:28:37 <ais523> AnMaster: I use tar because everyone else does
13:29:01 * ais523 thinks installing cygwin under wine is kind-of silly
13:29:04 <ais523> it seems to work, though...
13:29:23 <tusho> ais523: *kind-of*?
13:29:33 <ais523> tusho: well in this case I think I have a reason
13:29:47 <AnMaster> ais523, I seen cygwin under wine under colinux under windows
13:29:57 -!- Comtech2 has left (?).
13:30:01 <ais523> which is that I'm not going to learn the windows networking stack...
13:30:06 <ais523> AnMaster: ok, that is impressive
13:30:09 -!- MikeRiley has joined.
13:30:12 <ais523> colinux isn't under Windows, though, really
13:30:17 <ais523> just the Windows kernel
13:30:25 <AnMaster> ais523, well it is "beside" it
13:30:50 <ais523> what is colinux for, btw?
13:31:23 <AnMaster> since you said under windows kernel
13:31:28 <ais523> but not why someone would want to use it
13:31:45 <AnMaster> ais523, um windows users wanting linux but needing some 3D app under windows for work?
13:31:52 <AnMaster> so they can't run windows emulated
13:31:59 <AnMaster> that is one thing I can think of
13:32:11 <ais523> ok, so it gives you effectively a hot-swappable dual-boot?
13:34:10 <AnMaster> ais523, it lets you run linux apps at decent speed under windows
13:34:22 <ais523> much the same as kqemu does?
13:34:27 <ais523> it works under Windows too apparently
13:34:39 <AnMaster> ais523, in effect better speed than stuff like kqemu
13:34:40 <ais523> but it runs half-speed, one half for windows and one half for linux
13:35:01 <AnMaster> ais523, and I don't think the speed is split statically
13:35:19 <AnMaster> so yes if both are fully loaded you will get half speed of full CPU speed on each
13:35:26 <AnMaster> but without that I think it is dynamic
13:35:35 <ais523> ah, the version I have isn't set up very well, then, it tries to be completely static
13:35:45 <ais523> if you look at its memory usage, for instance, it's always exactly 10%
13:35:56 <AnMaster> ais523, memory... that would indeed be static
13:36:23 <AnMaster> ais523, at least back when I last used colinux it used and xml file for config
13:37:03 <MikeRiley> AnMaster: down to 1 bad in Rc/Funge-98.....and did do something about the fingerprints...
13:37:15 <ais523> MikeRiley: what's the bad?
13:37:33 <MikeRiley> final bad id C in SOCK...for some reason on my system it is not connecting...
13:38:05 <MikeRiley> for the fingerprints,,,,as long as FNGR is not loaded, it will use the spec method for unloads, if FNGR is loaded, then it uses my method...
13:38:36 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, what about the other parts?
13:38:53 <AnMaster> they are separate scripts iirc
13:38:57 <MikeRiley> mycotrds fails,,,,but my TRDS implementation is incomplete...
13:39:05 <ais523> MikeRiley: what about IFFI?
13:39:19 <AnMaster> ais523, IFFI is only sane in C-INTERCAL
13:39:26 <ais523> which does an FFI to INTERCAL
13:39:43 <MikeRiley> not sure i will implement that one....but never know!!!!
13:39:53 <MikeRiley> also added a -h to get the command line arguments...
13:39:54 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, it needs a huge change to mainloop
13:40:05 <AnMaster> basically ais523 replaced the main loop totally
13:40:12 <ais523> it's slightly interesting in that it involves a proprietary instruction in the 128-255 range, and requires the Befunge program to be compiled (although I use a bundle-an-interp method)
13:40:20 <ais523> AnMaster: no, not really, I just put a wrapper around each iteration
13:40:27 <AnMaster> other than that and the IFFI code to set flags that are read in main loop it need no changes
13:40:36 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, also it doesn't work with concurrent funge
13:40:37 <ais523> to run INTERCAL instead of Befunge if it was the INTERCAL code's turn
13:41:20 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, your SOCK doesn't do IPV6
13:41:30 <AnMaster> maybe you should create a SCK6 for ipv6? :)
13:41:54 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, also what about SCKE?
13:42:37 <MikeRiley> darn k problem!!! eheheeheheheheheheh
13:42:44 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I shall watch with glee ;P
13:42:49 <AnMaster> as I think it is your own fault
13:43:13 <MikeRiley> i am surprised somebody actually tried to implement that one actually!!!!
13:43:26 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, heck Deewiant even implemented mini-funge
13:43:40 <AnMaster> not unless there is TRDS coded in mini-funge
13:43:41 <Deewiant> I only tested something really simple
13:43:52 <AnMaster> ais523, fingerprints as funge-code
13:44:00 <AnMaster> ais523, so fingerprints are coded in funge
13:44:09 <ais523> just like C-INTERCAL CREATEs can be coded in INTERCAL
13:44:11 <Deewiant> like dynamic libraries for Befunge
13:44:16 <ais523> also it accepts C and Funge-98, though
13:44:27 <AnMaster> anyway if I implement it, I will implement it the way !Befunge does
13:44:47 <AnMaster> like allowing loading fingerprints inside the ghost IP's funge space
13:45:05 <AnMaster> oh ip quit/create notification
13:45:42 <ais523> AnMaster: do you end up with a stack-stack-stack?
13:45:47 <MikeRiley> i probably will go and add to my mini-funge....but for when i created it,,,,it worked for what i wanted...
13:46:03 <ais523> with a stack of stack-stacks, for the main program and each executing fingerprint?
13:46:19 <AnMaster> stack-stack is copied on entry to the ghost iirc
13:46:36 <ais523> well yes, then you have a new stack-stack
13:46:44 <ais523> and you return to the old one after you execute
13:46:46 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, the specs for the version I would implement is as an appendix in Funge-108 standard
13:46:49 <ais523> thus effectively creating a stack-stack-stack
13:47:03 <AnMaster> it is slightly enhanced variant of the !Befunge one
13:47:29 <AnMaster> ais523, no I think it is copied back
13:47:39 <AnMaster> need to check those specs to be sure
13:48:31 <AnMaster> ais523, http://rage.kuonet.org/~anmaster/funge-108/funge108.pdf
13:49:51 <AnMaster> see C.3 for what features it got that are missing in MikeRiley's one
13:51:42 <AnMaster> I find that too few ligatures are used on IRC, don't you agree?
13:52:35 <tusho> AnMaster: I’ve been known to use proper apostrophes and quotes.
13:52:47 <tusho> And emdash as well.
13:52:52 <MikeRiley> added a "help" command to the debugger now.....no longer have to keep going back the manual because i forgot the instructions!!!! eheheheheeheheheh
13:53:01 <tusho> (That ' in "I've" was a fancy one, btw.)
13:53:34 <Deewiant> MikeRiley: why didn't you do that way back when >_<
13:54:00 <MikeRiley> not really sure why!!!! but fixed that oversight now!!!!
13:54:18 <Deewiant> too late to do me any good now ;-)
13:55:37 <ais523> I added the help command at the same time I added the GPL advertising command
13:55:42 <MikeRiley> at the time i knew what everything did,,,,and did not really expect many other people to ever use my interpreter,,,so figured i did not need it...eheheeheheheh
13:55:43 <ais523> read the GPL, there's actually a requirement...
13:56:08 <ais523> although it only kicks in when modifying a non-interactive application to be interactive, but that was what I was doing
13:56:19 <MikeRiley> same excuse for my poor fingerprint documentation....
13:56:29 <AnMaster> ais523, there is always --version
13:56:37 <ais523> AnMaster: not on C-INTERCAL there isn't
13:56:43 <ais523> in fact it doesn't even know what version it is
13:56:47 <ais523> I want to add a version command
13:56:57 <ais523> but haven't thought of a sufficiently twisted way to do it yet
13:57:04 <AnMaster> I want to be portable you see :P
13:57:11 <ais523> oh and C-INTERCAL uses getopt if it's there
13:57:19 <ais523> or its own internal stripped-down version if it isn't
13:57:34 <MikeRiley> which shows version and lists the fingerprints that are built in...
13:57:41 <AnMaster> ais523, anyway what the heck is wrong with #define VERSION_STR "0.1.2.3"?
13:57:56 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, for fingerprints there is -f
13:58:00 <AnMaster> that also lists other features
13:58:04 <ais523> I want to do it so that --version shows the version info by defining all the letters - v e r s i o n to do things that together combine to make a version command
13:58:16 <ais523> C-INTERCAL has -@ for help for some reason
13:58:18 -!- oklofok has quit (Connection timed out).
13:58:22 <ais523> but it also shows help on invalid info like -?
13:58:42 <ais523> that was there when I got to it
13:58:47 <ais523> I have no idea why it uses -@ as the help command
13:58:56 <ais523> maybe C-INTERCAL dates from before question marks were in common usage
13:59:08 <AnMaster> http://rafb.net/p/i593Kx47.html
13:59:18 <MikeRiley> no,,,intercal wanted to do things different than everybody else!!!! eheheheheheheeh
13:59:42 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, "intercal wanted to do things different than everybody else" <-- quite plausible
13:59:53 <AnMaster> as difference to previous char
14:00:05 <AnMaster> so acb would be 12-1 right ais523 ?
14:00:17 <AnMaster> "turning text" or whatever you call it
14:00:20 <MikeRiley> if i remember right,,,,they wanted to have no features that were common with other languages...
14:00:35 <tusho> MikeRiley: ais523 maintains c-intercal (otherwise this discussion doesn't make sense)
14:00:54 <ais523> well, apart from assignment, but you don't need that for turing-completeness
14:01:20 * ais523 gets thrown out of the library because it's closing
14:01:29 <ais523> atm I'm connected from a bench just outside the library
14:01:33 <ais523> good thing it isn't raining...
14:01:39 <AnMaster> ais523, maybe a C-INTERCAL <-> CLC-INTERCAL <-> J-INTERCAL FFI?
14:01:50 <AnMaster> all based on C-INTERCAL of course
14:02:06 <AnMaster> you should be able to link in Funge at the same time and C code
14:02:33 <ais523> ah, cygwin's finished downloading all its packages
14:02:39 <ais523> I wonder if they test cygwin under Wine?
14:02:53 <AnMaster> ais523, I tried once a few years ago, it didn't work
14:03:26 <ais523> well, I only need the install to work
14:03:34 <ais523> although having it run too would be nice
14:03:40 <ais523> AnMaster: its installer downloads stuff to work
14:03:42 <AnMaster> ais523, oh install runs scripts under cygwin
14:03:53 <ais523> and my Windows computer is almost a two-hour walk from my internet connection
14:04:10 <AnMaster> ais523, duh you can use downloaded packages
14:04:11 <ais523> so I'm installing under Wine, then copying the resulting directory tree when I get home
14:04:16 <ais523> at least thats what I hope to do
14:04:22 <AnMaster> so you can move the installer and the downloaded files
14:04:26 <ais523> if that fails I'll just use the downloaded tree and install from that
14:04:31 <AnMaster> ais523, because your way won't work
14:04:44 <ais523> AnMaster: Wine's got a lot better in the meantime
14:04:47 <AnMaster> it needs to set up some stuff in registry
14:04:53 <ais523> and I can because I'm not installing as admin
14:04:58 <AnMaster> so it just won't work to copy the install thing
14:05:16 <ais523> although for things like registry keys I'll need to find a way to transfer them
14:05:30 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
14:05:31 <AnMaster> ais523, just copy over installer and the downloaded install tree, ok?
14:05:49 <ais523> I'm in #esoteric, why can't I do things the hard way?
14:05:54 <AnMaster> ais523, it will work, you just need to tell it the directory
14:06:14 <ais523> besides having it installed here will be useful for testing
14:06:23 <ais523> so I can produce Windows binaries for C-INTERCAL for instance
14:06:33 <ais523> I'm reasonably confident in my Linux computer not catching a Windows virus
14:09:08 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Remote closed the connection).
14:13:05 <MikeRiley> got my new dynamic model code designed,,,now just to code it!! eheheheh
14:13:54 -!- ais523_ has joined.
14:14:23 -!- ais523 has quit (Nick collision from services.).
14:14:25 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523.
14:19:20 <MikeRiley> pre-allocated stack now done away with,,,uses dynamic allocation for the stack now...
14:19:37 <ais523> could you get out-of-stack errors beforehand?
14:20:42 <MikeRiley> if you overflowed the stack before,,,,it gave an error and terminated the program...
14:22:13 <MikeRiley> figured, if it could not push a value, then the rest of the program wouldn ot work anyways,,,so may as well just terminte it...
14:25:11 <MikeRiley> new version now will grow the stack if the push would cause an overflow...
14:25:33 <MikeRiley> this of course now does away with the stack size limitation mentioned in the manual...
14:32:01 <ais523> AnMaster: Cygwin FAQ says it doesn't store anything in the registry but mount information
14:32:09 <ais523> which will be empty while not using it
14:32:19 <ais523> also it stores everything in the same registry key which nothing else uses
14:32:22 <ais523> so it'll be easy to transfer
14:32:24 <AnMaster> ais523, it set some env variables
14:32:55 <AnMaster> at least the version I used did
14:33:12 <ais523> AnMaster: it sets them in /etc/profile apparently
14:33:31 <ais523> which of course doesn't run until you load Cygwin yourself
14:33:36 <AnMaster> ais523, I'm pretty sure it sets one or two in registry
14:34:04 <AnMaster> <ais523> so I can produce Windows binaries for C-INTERCAL for instance
14:34:05 <AnMaster> <ais523> I'm reasonably confident in my Linux computer not catching a Windows virus <-- cross compile with mingw?
14:34:09 <ais523> I wouldn't expect services to work because I'm not installing as root
14:34:11 <ais523> AnMaster: I thought of that
14:34:23 <ais523> I want to try out cygwin for other reasons, though
14:49:07 -!- ais523 has quit ("(1) DO COME FROM ".2~.2"~#1 WHILE :1 <- "'?.1$.2'~'"':1/.1$.2'~#0"$#65535'"$"'"'&.1$.2'~'#0$#65535'"$#0'~#32767$#1"").
15:09:50 -!- olsner_ has quit.
15:18:07 <tusho> w.tf is registered
15:18:42 -!- lilja has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
15:35:34 <MikeRiley> problem in SOCK fixed,,,,Rc/Funge-98 now passes mycology 100%, minus the ones where mycology is still using the broken k....
15:37:05 -!- AnMaster has quit (Remote closed the connection).
15:38:47 -!- pikhq has joined.
15:40:24 -!- AnMaster has joined.
16:07:04 <Deewiant> I'd release a new Mycology but for the fact that I can't fix this damn mycotrds
16:09:19 <MikeRiley> how about fixing mycology first,,,,then mycotrds???
16:09:39 <Deewiant> but "Mycology" is the whole thing
16:09:46 <Deewiant> I'm not going to release only mycology.b98
16:10:06 <Deewiant> if you can fix mycotrds.b98 :-P
16:13:10 <AnMaster> to everyone that complained before
16:13:22 <AnMaster> and ais523 (but he isn't here) and tusho ^
16:19:28 -!- MikeRiley has left (?).
16:29:24 -!- Hiato has joined.
16:31:06 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
16:40:39 -!- Corun has joined.
16:44:49 -!- sebbu has quit (Connection timed out).
16:47:40 -!- Sgeo has joined.
16:57:00 <AnMaster> tusho, you complained about browsing before!
16:58:19 -!- Sgeo has quit (Remote closed the connection).
16:58:43 -!- Ilari has joined.
17:03:49 -!- Hiato has quit ("Leaving.").
17:17:23 -!- Hiato has joined.
17:26:52 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep").
17:28:25 <Deewiant> mycotrds actually found a bug in my k ^_^
17:28:36 <Deewiant> specifically, k$ was taking one tick too little
17:29:19 <AnMaster> Deewiant, how the heck could that happen?
17:29:39 <AnMaster> Deewiant, do like me then, don't overoptimize
17:29:50 <Deewiant> naw, it was just a silly mistake
17:34:57 -!- Sgeo has joined.
17:36:23 <AnMaster> Deewiant, got the updated mycology anywhere?
17:36:54 <AnMaster> Deewiant, also how could returning from Iterate cause it to happen in same tick?
17:37:04 <AnMaster> for cfunge at least k will take *at least* one tick
17:37:15 <Deewiant> AnMaster: it was before I had moved the IP back to the k after getting the operand
17:48:06 <AnMaster> <jelmer> now working on supporting "bzr branch <git-url>"
17:48:19 <tusho> never mind that bzr and git have totally different models
17:48:24 <AnMaster> it can already operate on it in many other aspects I heard
17:48:25 <tusho> and the conversion - both ways - is lossy
17:48:37 <AnMaster> tusho, there is already bzr-svn
17:48:53 <tusho> because svn is pretty much the lowest common denominator
17:49:03 <AnMaster> I guess it can't handle attributes though
17:49:15 <AnMaster> like svn:eol-style or whatever it is called
17:49:49 <fizzie> Properties is what svn calls those.
17:50:20 <AnMaster> I have used svn a lot, but it was almost a year ago
17:50:31 <lament> i started using svn two days ago
17:50:41 <AnMaster> tusho, anyway isn't there git-darcs or darcs-git or whatever it is called?
17:50:50 <tusho> AnMaster: yes, and it's about as awful
17:50:55 <tusho> the concepts mesh a bit more
17:50:55 <AnMaster> lament, ah? what ones did you use before?
17:51:15 <tusho> lament: git man ;)
17:51:29 <lament> what's wrong with svn?
17:51:38 <tusho> lament: distributed workflows are better
17:51:40 <AnMaster> tusho, what about between mercurial and git?
17:51:45 <lament> TFS, despite horribly sucking, handled merges a bit better by actually having a merge tool
17:51:48 <tusho> it helps avoid "Big Commit"s
17:51:50 <AnMaster> tusho, not good for a beginner
17:51:54 <tusho> which are bad for reverting and stuff
17:52:01 <AnMaster> tusho, what about between mercurial and git?
17:52:03 <lament> tusho: what's a distributed workflow?
17:52:03 <tusho> lament: also, DVCS' are much better at merging
17:52:10 <tusho> lament: each repository is a full copy
17:52:11 <AnMaster> iirc you can get kernel source as mercurial
17:52:13 <tusho> and you make your commits to it
17:52:15 <Deewiant> AnMaster: new Mycology/CCBI up
17:52:17 <tusho> and then, push to the other one
17:52:24 <tusho> that is, your 'checkout' is in fact a complete repo
17:52:27 <tusho> and you make all the commits you want
17:52:31 <tusho> and can pull and push between repositories
17:52:40 <tusho> lament: 1. faster speed (all local)
17:52:44 <tusho> 2. as many commits as you want
17:52:52 <tusho> 3. gets rid of Big Commits (TM)
17:52:58 <Deewiant> lament: 4. if you don't have 'Net access you can actually do something
17:53:16 <lament> that's a good point, local commits are clearly useful
17:53:26 <tusho> Deewiant: regular vcs' kind of discourage making many smaller commits
17:53:40 <tusho> because of the 'what if I break something and have to fix it before anyone else makes a clone'
17:53:42 <Deewiant> but then, I haven't used them much
17:53:44 <tusho> and the sort of 'heavy-weight' feel
17:53:54 <tusho> DVCS' fix it by making it local to you until you push
17:54:05 <AnMaster> BAD: 5kz takes more than 3 ticks
17:54:05 <AnMaster> BAD: "a b" takes more than 5 ticks
17:54:10 <lament> tusho: but then your actual commit (push) will be a Big Commit
17:54:18 <tusho> lament: not really
17:54:21 <tusho> they're still seperate commits
17:54:22 <lament> just naming it push doesn't make it any less of a commit
17:54:26 -!- Comtech2 has joined.
17:54:34 <tusho> your commits are still small and modular
17:54:35 <tusho> in the revision history
17:54:42 <Deewiant> AnMaster: a bug in cfunge? :-P
17:54:53 <lament> i'm definitely stuck with SVN, though
17:54:58 <tusho> yeah, I can imagine
17:55:01 <lament> 1) we already picked it
17:55:06 <lament> 2) it has integration with xcode
17:55:20 <tusho> lament: there is git-svn which lets you clone a svn repository as a git repo and push it back to the main svn repo
17:55:24 <tusho> but it won't have xcode integration
17:55:31 <AnMaster> Deewiant, um this makes no sense
17:55:34 <tusho> (note: bzr and hg and stuff also have equivalents)
17:55:43 <Deewiant> AnMaster: it's all GOOD in CCBI
17:56:02 <lament> i don't think we'll have problems with SVN, there's only 3 developers on the project
17:56:15 <tusho> no point switching for that, I imagine
17:56:21 <AnMaster> #Deewiant, 5kz should take 4 ticks in total...
17:56:23 <tusho> maybe try it next project or something
17:56:45 <AnMaster> Deewiant, + the tick when it executes z another time
17:56:58 <lament> xcode integration is actually not a big concern
17:57:08 <AnMaster> Deewiant, anyway I checked here in debugger, it takes 3 ticks
17:57:11 -!- Comtech2 has left (?).
17:57:17 <lament> people use tortoiseSVN all the time in windows and it doesn't really have VS integration
17:57:34 -!- MikeRiley has joined.
17:57:39 <lament> just having a command-line tool is bad, though
17:57:42 <Deewiant> MikeRiley: new Mycology/CCBI are up
17:57:45 <AnMaster> Deewiant, and... BAD: "a b" takes more than 5 ticks
17:57:54 <tusho> lament: try FileMerge.app
17:57:57 <MikeRiley> super!!! will go and grab them....
17:58:00 <Deewiant> AnMaster: that works fine in CCBI too
17:58:08 <tusho> hg and git and whatever can be configured to open that on 'foo merge'
17:58:16 <Deewiant> even tested it so that when 5kz takes more or less than 3 ticks, it still gives that as GOOD...
17:58:45 <tusho> lament: git is faster, used for the linux kernel and x.org and similar, and also rapidly gaining in popularity
17:58:49 <tusho> but some people prefer other systems like darcs and hg
17:59:15 <tusho> git: http://git.or.cz/, darcs: http://darcs.net/, hg: http://www.selenic.com/mercurial/
17:59:21 <tusho> http://bazaar-vcs.org/
17:59:21 <lament> haskelers definitely like their darcs
17:59:24 <tusho> i'd go with git, but whatever
17:59:31 <tusho> lament: moar liek molassesdarcs
17:59:37 <tusho> but I think the thing is
17:59:41 <tusho> haskellers and lispers like their darcs
17:59:47 <tusho> unlike everyone else ;)
18:00:00 <Deewiant> GHC is switching away from darcs
18:00:12 <tusho> Deewiant: ah yes they're going to use git right?
18:00:20 <Deewiant> I don't think they've chosen anything
18:00:25 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I checked in debugger, it takes exactly 3 ticks
18:00:25 <tusho> seems likely, though
18:00:26 <Deewiant> it looks like bzr is the top contenteder, actually
18:00:33 <tusho> since git is the second most popular thing in the haskell community
18:00:37 <tusho> and really, nobody uses bzr ;)
18:00:41 <Deewiant> AnMaster: your problem, not mine. Find out why it gets it wrong. :-P
18:00:51 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I'd say it is a bug in mycology
18:00:53 <Deewiant> tusho: I've been pushing hg quite a bit
18:01:09 <tusho> I'd say git and hg are Good Choices
18:01:15 <Deewiant> tusho: the reason they like bzr is that it handles a rename-related case well
18:01:22 <Deewiant> AnMaster: hah, see? it even works for MikeRiley!!
18:01:23 <tusho> with git coming out on top for its multiple large-projects, and wide-scale and growing large adoption
18:01:31 <AnMaster> Deewiant, "mycology.b98 is a binary file"
18:01:31 <Deewiant> MikeRiley: excellent! how about TRDS ;-)
18:01:31 <tusho> and IMO it has a nicer internal structure
18:01:41 <MikeRiley> i doubt that will work,,,but will try and see...
18:01:44 <AnMaster> it is not due to CRLF, it is something else
18:01:54 <Deewiant> AnMaster: contains a null byte
18:02:03 <Deewiant> that's a new test added last week
18:02:04 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well I can't work on it then
18:02:08 <Deewiant> it was in the previous release as well
18:02:20 <Deewiant> well if your text editor is so crap it can't handle a file containing a single null byte...
18:02:32 <MikeRiley> mycotrds fails at: BAD: J doesn't jump through time properly
18:02:32 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I can't trace your bug then. as kate refuses to *edit* binary files
18:02:38 <tusho> AnMaster: you could...
18:02:38 <MikeRiley> but i did not expect it to work...
18:02:41 <tusho> another editor!!128972918378234781234782347823423
18:02:51 <MikeRiley> mycouser and mycoterm work fine...
18:03:04 <Deewiant> MikeRiley: yeah, that's what I seem to recall RC/Funge-98 always did :-)
18:03:19 <Deewiant> ran RC/Funge-98 on it and noticed it doesn't do shit :-P
18:03:28 <Deewiant> I was somewhat disappointed >_<
18:03:36 <MikeRiley> i know that my TRDS module is problematic,,,now that the rest of the interpreter works good...will fix that module...
18:03:42 <tusho> I wonder if you could test TRDS' ability to erase time by making it make the test of erasing time never happen
18:04:03 <Deewiant> there's a test where an IP travels back in time to prevent itself from being born
18:04:28 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I can't read your concurrent code
18:04:29 <MikeRiley> which should kill the parent,,,,the time travelled ip should still exist...
18:04:34 <Deewiant> tusho: if you're interested, http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/wiki/DarcsEvaluation
18:04:34 <AnMaster> even less than your normal code
18:04:47 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I just don't understand that part of mycology
18:04:56 <Deewiant> what's so hard to understand about it :-P
18:05:08 <AnMaster> Deewiant, where are the different IPs going?
18:05:25 <AnMaster> Deewiant, yes and where are they?
18:05:27 <Deewiant> most of the time, one or the other is in a ><
18:05:28 <tusho> Deewiant: how can bzr be at the top
18:05:28 <tusho> # We can't do this yet because bzr does not support interactive cherrypicking for merge:
18:05:38 <tusho> it doesn't support one of their most important parts
18:05:47 <tusho> Deewiant: You said it was
18:06:03 <Deewiant> tusho: I said I think it is ;-)
18:06:19 <Deewiant> tusho: reason mostly being that "bzr manages this example without any difficulty: " case
18:06:25 <Deewiant> which somebody or other cited as important
18:06:35 <Deewiant> AnMaster: one's at the 5kz, the other is in a ><
18:06:48 <Deewiant> AnMaster: right before the k a p is hit to release the other from the ><
18:07:01 <AnMaster> Deewiant, there is in 5kz in the source here.
18:07:21 <Deewiant> stuff is put on the stack earlier
18:07:33 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well the code *says* 5kz
18:07:37 <Deewiant> the k itself is in column 1 or so
18:07:38 <AnMaster> so I assumed that was what it meant
18:07:45 <Deewiant> AnMaster: well, you know how it used to say 3k<
18:07:47 <AnMaster> would be useful to give correct info you know
18:08:12 <Deewiant> "BAD: <k3 when approaching from the right"...
18:08:23 <Deewiant> and now you say that 5kz is not correct
18:08:37 <Deewiant> "BAD: 5<internal code you don't need to care about>kz doesn't work"
18:08:51 <Deewiant> the essential part is that 5 is on top of the stack when the k is hit
18:11:40 <Deewiant> but now I'm off to the sauna, have fun ->
18:12:42 <AnMaster> also I can't get the program to break at the right point...
18:14:22 -!- MikeRiley has left (?).
18:14:56 <psygnisfive> did you like my idea for complement regexps?
18:15:18 <tusho> psygnisfive: are they regexps that output?
18:15:20 <tusho> if so - done before
18:15:32 <ihope> psygnisfive: what is it?
18:16:09 <psygnisfive> ihope: instead of generating a new regexp that has a complementary pattern
18:16:52 <ihope> Automata corresponding to regexes can be very large, and regexes corresponding to automata can be very large.
18:17:23 <ihope> That GreenReaper regex I threw at pikhq corresponded to an especially simple automaton.
18:17:53 <psygnisfive> then just wrap the positive automata in a logical not. :P
18:18:21 <psygnisfive> but either way i think it'd be cleaner than building a custom complement expression
18:18:45 <psygnisfive> the regexp for /|[^r].*|.../ as a complement to /red/
18:19:27 <psygnisfive> is a lot more complicated than if you just to the automata for /red/ and swapped the accept/reject states
18:19:42 <ihope> The complement of /red/ using a complement operator.
18:21:15 <psygnisfive> Q and F being your total states and final states, respectively
18:21:44 -!- lilja has joined.
18:22:19 <tusho> codex is at http://codex.wordpress.org and can be searched by error_bot using |codex <search terms>
18:22:20 <tusho> BigJibby: originating in the first century, the codex is a book composed of folded sheets sewn along one edge, distinct from other writing vehicles such as ...
18:22:57 <AnMaster> Deewiant, wherever the issue it is in not in k
18:23:07 <AnMaster> Deewiant, and I'm unable to trace it.
18:23:51 <AnMaster> the other ip seems to be off by one place
18:24:39 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I need a way to dump trace info from ccbi to be able to debug this
18:24:46 <AnMaster> and since I can't compile it...
18:28:01 <AnMaster> Deewiant, if however I make mine skip a tick a bit earlier on in strings so that all spaces in strings take zero ticks, then those errors doesn't show up, but instead it says that z takes 0 ticks
18:28:26 <AnMaster> Deewiant, so until mycology can tell me where the hell it think the error is, or ccbi can do that, there is nothing I can do
18:29:50 <tusho> he's at the sauna AnMaster
18:30:00 <AnMaster> tusho, I know, but he also got scrollback
18:46:26 <AnMaster> Deewiant, yes but I need trace, output of current instruction and thread id
18:47:14 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well don't expect anything before next weekend then
18:47:25 <Deewiant> just set a breakpoint at where the >< starts
18:47:36 <tusho> Deewiant: back from the sauna already?
18:47:54 <Deewiant> how long do you expect me to be in there :-)
18:47:59 <AnMaster> Deewiant, and it is off by one by then
18:48:06 <tusho> i was hoping we'd rid of you
18:48:32 <Deewiant> AnMaster: okay, so set the breakpoint 10 instructions earlier and keep going... or, just start following them both from the 't'
18:48:45 <AnMaster> Deewiant, sigh, with all changing each other and such
18:48:46 <Deewiant> one thing that comes to mind is that ' takes two ticks
18:48:48 -!- MikeRiley has joined.
18:48:56 <AnMaster> Deewiant, it does take 2 ticks?
18:49:15 <MikeRiley> deewiant,,,got a question about something your call BAD in SOCK:
18:49:19 <Deewiant> i.e. if it does, it would break stuff
18:49:25 <MikeRiley> BAD: A didn't overwrite original socket
18:49:27 <AnMaster> Deewiant, nop it takes one tick
18:49:30 <MikeRiley> what are you expecting to happen here???
18:50:16 <MikeRiley> GOOD: bound to local port 51959 with B
18:50:16 <MikeRiley> GOOD: set listening mode with backlog size 1 with L
18:50:16 <MikeRiley> GOOD: created another socket with S
18:50:16 <MikeRiley> GOOD: converted 127.0.0.1 for C with I
18:50:19 <MikeRiley> GOOD: connected to local port 51959 with C
18:50:23 <MikeRiley> UNDEF: A pushed address 16777343 and port 43689
18:50:25 <MikeRiley> BAD: A didn't overwrite original socket
18:52:24 <MikeRiley> why should it overwrite the original socket??? normally a listening socket is not overwritten on accept,,,,
18:52:44 <MikeRiley> used by servers this allows a server to continue listening on a socket for additional connections...
18:53:13 <MikeRiley> accept will essentially create an additional sock for the connection, leaving the listening socket alone...
18:53:59 <MikeRiley> in theory,,,you could then use t, to split off the process to handle the accepted connection....
18:54:09 * tusho wonders... bitwise not in brainfuck..
18:54:13 <MikeRiley> the original would stay in a loop accepting additional connections...
18:54:18 <Deewiant> I'll take your word for it ^_^
18:54:44 <tusho> ^___________________________________^
18:54:48 <tusho> you made my face expand again
18:54:58 <MikeRiley> i write client/server software for a living these days...and this is how sockets are used...
18:55:05 <Deewiant> tusho: you need to have better control of your face
18:55:13 <tusho> ^______________________________________________________________________^
18:55:26 <psygnisfive> so who wants to make a language where the fundamental operations of the system are inherently parallelizable?
18:55:44 <psygnisfive> and i dont mean like Haskell or Erlang's parallelizable stuff either
18:55:47 <tusho> ^____________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________^
18:55:57 <psygnisfive> where the parallelism is a result of recursion
18:55:59 <MikeRiley> beyond that error, which is not an error...Rc/Funge-98 passes all tests (minus TRDS) without failures...
18:56:20 -!- tusho has quit ("And then-").
18:56:37 -!- tusho has joined.
19:02:23 <AnMaster> Deewiant, of course accept() doesn't destroy original socket!
19:19:54 <Deewiant> MikeRiley: fixed that now (I hope)
19:21:02 <MikeRiley> i also posted 1.0.9 of Rc/Funge-98 on my site...
19:21:21 <Deewiant> well, not so much "I hope", I just flipped the two messages around, the "I hope" is more that CCBI works :-P
19:23:07 <MikeRiley> well,,,we both got to get some bugs fixed from that whole process!!! eheheheheeheh
19:25:20 <Deewiant> AnMaster was even better in that regard ;-)
19:25:52 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I will look into concurrency bug more next weekend
19:27:51 <MikeRiley> well,,,had i been around when you first started it,,,,chances are i could have done more for you,,,,as it is,,,,too bad i was not there to inform you about k!!! eheheheheeh
19:29:39 <MikeRiley> still fully passes cat's eye diagnostics as well....so nothing to fix the bugs mycology found affected its ability to pass the cat's eye one...
19:30:12 <Deewiant> yup, CCBI does fine on them too with the new k
19:30:34 <MikeRiley> i guess now i can go to work on improving the interpreter,,,,like getting rid of the rest of the hard coded limits,,,add some more fingerprints,,,,rewrite the dynamic memory manager...
19:31:15 <MikeRiley> then i guess i should see about a Fugne108 mode....
19:31:31 <tusho> you'll write support for about 3 programs
19:32:00 <Deewiant> tusho: as opposed to Funge08's 5
19:32:26 <tusho> Deewiant: I'd say there's a few hundred 98 programs
19:32:33 <MikeRiley> the fun is not in writing programs to work in funge,,,,it is writing the interpreter!!! eheheheheeheheheheheh
19:33:04 <Deewiant> tusho: probably not when he started on RC/Funge-98 :-)
19:33:13 <Deewiant> and I'd say there are only a few dozen at most
19:33:32 <Deewiant> and mycology is longer than the rest put together ;-)
19:34:08 <MikeRiley> when i started Rc/Funge-98,,,there were none!!!! there were no interprters until i wrote mine!!!! eheheheeheheheheh
19:34:35 <MikeRiley> i will agree to that,,,,mycology is quite large compared to other programs that i have....
19:34:51 <MikeRiley> i think the wumpus is the largest program i have,,,,besides mycology....
19:35:03 <Deewiant> MikeRiley: have you run the TURT quine?
19:35:25 <Deewiant> http://www.phlamethrower.co.uk/befunge/tquine.php
19:35:28 <MikeRiley> mine does have graphic output for TURT...
19:39:55 <Deewiant> it located a few bugs in my TURT implementation :-P
19:40:33 <MikeRiley> lets see if it can find some in mine now!! eheheheh
19:41:40 <MikeRiley> did not quite work right!!!!! made about a million windows!!!!! eheheheheheh
19:42:01 * pikhq cheers. . . A city in the US actually seems to have gotten a clue about how to do a mass transit system.
19:42:04 <Deewiant> my TURT doesn't implement the 'show picture'
19:42:15 <Deewiant> and since AnMaster's is copied from mine, neither does cfunge. :-P
19:42:44 <tusho> suggested rename of cfunge to posix_ccbi
19:42:47 <pikhq> In '94, Denver had no mass transit system at all. . . By 2016, their light rail system will include about 150 miles of track.
19:42:54 <AnMaster> Deewiant, indeed why would it show a pic
19:43:03 <MikeRiley> if i disable the graphics, then it runs....
19:43:13 <MikeRiley> with the graphics enabled, it is generating lots and lots of windows...
19:43:36 <Deewiant> MikeRiley: you should probably close your old window whenever you open a new one, or even better, just draw into it if it's open :-)
19:43:40 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well not being portable
19:43:53 <AnMaster> tell me a portable way, across all platforms, to do it
19:43:56 <MikeRiley> checking now which commands it is executing in that module...
19:44:16 <MikeRiley> yeah,,,pretty platform independent....my code relies on x-windows...
19:44:58 <AnMaster> tusho, don't want to depend on that
19:45:11 <tusho> AnMaster: You want a portable way across all platforms to do it ... without depending on _anything_.
19:45:16 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, I got a simpler test for TURT in cfunge
19:45:38 <AnMaster> tusho, ARGH no I don't want to depend on libc!
19:45:43 <tusho> AnMaster: *I have a
19:45:49 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, http://bzr.kuonet.org/cfunge/trunk/annotate/330?file_id=turt.b98-20080701112134-awm4lh4mh9uihbxw-1
19:46:37 <pikhq> AnMaster: If you want to depend upon *nothing*, yet be portable, first go ape-shit mad.
19:47:08 <pikhq> Second, write an entire microkernel architecture which runs on any kernel providing mmap, brk, fork, open, write, etc.
19:47:39 <pikhq> Third, go ape-shit mad.
19:47:58 <SimonRC> *mumble* ColorForth *mumble*
19:48:27 <MikeRiley> his code appears to keep loading TURT,,,my code creates a window when TURT is loaded...
19:48:48 <MikeRiley> and since he keeps reloading it....keeps creating windows!!! eheheheeheh
19:49:22 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, creating windows every time is wrong
19:49:34 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, should only when display is called
19:49:34 <pikhq> But *why* limit yourself to that?
19:49:48 <pikhq> Limit yourself to whatever will sanely be available...
19:50:37 <pikhq> A hint: SDL will be available.
19:51:07 <tusho> pikhq: You use REASON on AnMaster.
19:51:10 <tusho> It's not very effective...
19:51:20 <tusho> AnMaster uses posix_fadvise!
19:51:39 <AnMaster> tusho, what are you imitating?
19:52:09 <tusho> AnMaster: the battle system in the pokemon gameboy games
19:54:25 <Deewiant> nothing wrong with being ignorant about something; one can't know everything :-P
19:55:19 <MikeRiley> window problem now solved,,,only get 1 now...
19:57:11 <MikeRiley> i need to port that stuff to my compatability library,,,dealing with all that X junk is annoying....
19:59:26 <MikeRiley> long time ago i wrote a graphics library that sits on top of x...and then proted it to Windows as well...so that i could write software on my linux system that could run on a Windows machien as well...
19:59:33 <MikeRiley> way way way before SDL ever existed...
19:59:55 <Deewiant> but you didn't use that in RC/Funge, so I have to run it under Cygwin. >_<
20:00:10 <AnMaster> well there are more stuff you would need
20:00:35 <AnMaster> for example: extern char **environ
20:00:51 <AnMaster> or GetEnvironmentHandleHandleEx()
20:01:00 <MikeRiley> yeah,,,,Rc/Funge-98 was written before my library was...
20:01:24 <AnMaster> Deewiant, but it was good imitation of Windows API :P
20:01:32 <pikhq> Your library needs to be chucked out; there's no point in it any more. :p
20:02:28 <Deewiant> AnMaster: and in a POSIX vein it would be posix_genvst ;-)
20:03:05 <tusho> pikhq: not really. it reimplements half of the standard template library.
20:03:14 <tusho> it imitates java a bit, I find
20:03:16 <Deewiant> AnMaster: well, it's a posix version of an old C routine which had to be 6 chars. ;-)
20:12:10 <SimonRC> no, the six chars where the only ones recognised
20:12:21 <SimonRC> you could have more but they might have been ignored
20:18:12 <Deewiant> exactly, so they practically had to be six chars
20:34:21 -!- MikeRiley has left (?).
21:10:24 <ihope> I suppose an analog signal processing programming language really wouldn't be that difficult.
21:10:42 <SimonRC> there are likelyly some already
21:14:17 <ihope> The program consists of a number of equations. On the left is a name, and on the right is an expression formed of names, differentiation, integration, addition, multiplication by a constant, and the piecewise function f(x) = 0 for x <= 0, f(x) = x for x >= 0.
21:14:47 * SimonRC remembers playing with Simulink.
21:18:26 -!- Hiato has quit ("Leaving.").
21:19:38 <ihope> Names define distributions, not functions, so that you can differentiate the undifferentiable and then integrate it again to get what you started with.
21:23:10 <SimonRC> can you do things to the impossible differentiate in-between?
21:23:51 <ihope> Hmm, that raises a question, though.
21:24:46 <ihope> What if you take the function f(x) = 0 for x < 0, f(x) = 1 for x > 0, differentiate it twice, and run it through the piecewise function?
21:25:21 <ihope> Undefined behavior, I guess.
21:26:17 <SimonRC> (What is the result of a differentiation called anyway?)
21:28:28 -!- lament has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
21:33:09 -!- MikeRiley has joined.
21:54:38 -!- pikhq has quit ("leaving").
22:24:31 -!- cherez1 has joined.
22:24:38 -!- cherez1 has left (?).
22:33:51 -!- cherez has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
22:42:55 -!- Corun has joined.
22:49:28 -!- Slereah_ has joined.
22:51:28 <Slereah_> And that goes for you too psygnisfive
23:03:02 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep").
23:05:22 <tusho> Slereah_: sasfki i9 ai xzn aio ox
23:10:16 <Slereah_> BUT HOW WILL I SUCK YOUR DICK THEN
23:12:16 <Slereah_> Man. Reinstalling all your stuff is annoying
23:20:40 -!- MikeRiley has left (?).
23:28:13 -!- RedDak has joined.
23:50:19 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)).
23:56:12 -!- Corun has joined.