< 1217376014 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho_: what was that? < 1217376024 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: it was one of #esoteric's loggers < 1217376030 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then there was one - clog. < 1217376046 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: anyway, there are a lot of active befunge-related discussions < 1217376050 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 keeps coming up with new ideas < 1217376060 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and slereah and psygnisfive, um, keep the rest of the time filled < 1217376070 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wouldn't say we're dying < 1217376077 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1217376090 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wouldn't let us die, anyway :P < 1217376101 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I had to be everybody in #esoteric apart from lament I'd do it < 1217376112 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1217376114 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't do oklopol < 1217376117 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok everyone but lament and oklopol < 1217376129 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1217376136 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you going away, oklament < 1217376161 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/Special:Recentchanges esolang WIKI seems to be dying though < 1217376226 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: any idea about coollist < 1217376228 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sent them an email < 1217376231 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bet it went to /dev/null < 1217376269 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION didn't look at coollist < 1217376429 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho_: i think irc on the whole is dying, though < 1217376433 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slowly < 1217376441 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: it's been dying since 1992 < 1217376443 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff like mibbit will keep it alive for a while < 1217376448 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1217376448 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: however < 1217376450 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go into #ubuntu < 1217376451 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or #php < 1217376454 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and say that irc is dying. < 1217376467 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#ubuntu especially. < 1217376467 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sure, some channels are big and lively. < 1217376475 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: and they strand off into littler ones. < 1217376478 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus irc stays alive < 1217376482 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, it's veryyyyy slowly < 1217376488 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe irc will be fading out in 10 years time. < 1217376508 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, such technologies never die until the users do < 1217376520 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usenet is effectively dead already, yet a bunch of people will use it till they die < 1217376529 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same with irc < 1217376541 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps moribund is a better term < 1217376559 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but lament, people come on to irc quite often < 1217376560 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :new people < 1217376564 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it refreshes itself < 1217376588 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1217376606 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my experience is highly biased since i don't go outside freenode < 1217376617 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor do i < 1217376618 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define "dead" < 1217376633 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am on half-a-dozen lively newsgroups < 1217376645 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :death can be hard to define :) < 1217376658 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, obsolescence < 1217376662 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BBSes are deadder < 1217376668 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1217376684 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but some people still use BBSs too < 1217376695 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbs' are certainly dead < 1217376714 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION feels nostalgic for the days when the internet was a wilderness not a boomin suburb < 1217376741 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't be elitist, SimonRC < 1217376741 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::\ < 1217376754 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the days when phreakers from around the wolrd would meet up in a telex machine that the phone exchange had forgotten for a while < 1217376764 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho_: elitest?! < 1217376769 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was before I was born < 1217376785 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: yes, but you're saying that the 'new internet' people aren't as good. < 1217376797 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1217376804 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'tis a tradeoff < 1217376819 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its less wild, but it's less wild < 1217376824 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: i don't think much has changed really < 1217376851 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: you're just out of the loop :) < 1217376860 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: consider the phreakers: the phone networks were huge < 1217376872 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only like 20 people in the world knew about that telex machine < 1217376886 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno, maybe a few hundered, but yeah < 1217376912 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this kind of thing happens all the time < 1217376944 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1217376950 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I'm not leaving #esoteric any time soon < 1217376954 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a ban would do it but that's about it. < 1217376965 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And probably only a few people knew about stuff like rms's no password account on an Internet-facing machine. < 1217376966 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm certainly not letting it die in the forseeable future < 1217376982 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: haha < 1217376986 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hahaha what < 1217377001 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: i think the internet is more wild if anything < 1217377018 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, RMS intentionally had no password on his account so that people could dial into MIT and get on the Internet. < 1217377030 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahah < 1217377032 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: very rmsy < 1217377042 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i leave my wireless unencrypted < 1217377045 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have fun guys :D < 1217377071 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He also recommended that other people leave no passwords, so as to preserve anonymous access in MIT systems. < 1217377077 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are still so many groups of people that are doing the same things but do not know about each other < 1217377092 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: yeah < 1217377094 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, new internet is good too... < 1217377103 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders writing a new listserv < 1217377103 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank god for universal reachibility < 1217377110 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amusingly, the GNU Hurd also preserves anonymous access. < 1217377110 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A modern one that doesn't act like mailman. < 1217377116 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: how? < 1217377131 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I mean, listservs aren't that hard right? < 1217377142 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write it in BF! < 1217377144 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you get an email from an email in the subscriber list, you send it to everyone in the subscriber list with a footer. < 1217377155 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you get one to the control address, you interpret the body as some commands. < 1217377162 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's ... it. < 1217377162 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has 4 levels of mode bits: User, Group, Owner, and Anonymous... < 1217377169 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And there is an anonymous user on the HURD. < 1217377174 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UID 0. < 1217377183 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is root then? < 1217377188 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry. < 1217377190 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UID -1. < 1217377193 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thinko. < 1217377199 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe it was a null set? < 1217377202 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways; < 1217377205 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hurd is definitely dead, though :) < 1217377215 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I could write a listserv in a day. < 1217377217 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll start right now. < 1217377224 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe start esolangs-prime ;) < 1217377233 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A HURD installation's gettys spawn shells as anonymous. < 1217377248 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm < 1217377251 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you wish to login, you type "login username". < 1217377256 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1217377282 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho_: there's a perfectly good mailing list to which a bunch of people are already subscribed... :) < 1217377293 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, you can reasonably fuck around with a HURD system without having an account on it. < 1217377294 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: And that gets no emails but spam < 1217377294 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1217377304 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do they spam it anyway?! < 1217377309 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they know how to sign up to lists? < 1217377324 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i assume you can disable that < 1217377341 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, I wonder. Do most listservs run their own SMTP server or whatever? < 1217377344 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just hook into another? < 1217377434 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho_: Probably. < 1217377472 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make init not spawn an anonymous shell, & voila. < 1217377487 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://snippets.dzone.com/posts/show/3932 <-- Hm. Are SMTP servers really this simple? < 1217377509 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1217377509 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://snippets.dzone.com/posts/show/5152 < 1217377510 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more realistic < 1217377668 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho_: minus the business logic, yes. < 1217377679 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: the latter has some business logic < 1217377706 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1217377709 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It even handles attachments, right? < 1217377715 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it's all just strangely-encoded stuff. < 1217377740 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't look like it handles attachments, no. < 1217377757 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: Aren't attachments just done by having weird things like < 1217377759 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- multipart doof bar < 1217377764 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and having it encoded somehow? < 1217377813 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the proper headers, I believe. < 1217377815 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1217377818 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. < 1217377820 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does handle attachments < 1217377826 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where at? < 1217377836 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: what i mean is < 1217377838 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it passes them on fine < 1217377842 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it were to resend the message it stores < 1217377863 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers milkman as a name. < 1217377864 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... then yes, most likely it does. < 1217378245 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sourceforge.net/?abmode=1 < 1217378247 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice redesign < 1217378259 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to bed < 1217378304 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1217378307 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to bed < 1217378314 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: Second time lucky? < 1217378314 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO listservs < 1217378319 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :run an smtp server? < 1217378319 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally < 1217378324 0 :shachaf!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1217378326 0 :shachaf!n=shachaf@66.17.178.32 JOIN :#esoteric < 1217378337 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I can send files from the Normish server using Gmail under lynx. < 1217378348 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gmail requires a modern, js-enabled browser. < 1217378359 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use scp < 1217378376 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scp? < 1217378379 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scp. < 1217378460 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho_: no, it has a non-js mode < 1217378461 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to bed < 1217378700 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gmail has a non-js mode? < 1217378866 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey lets talk about something interesting < 1217379157 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let it be hereby resolved that we will now talk about something interesting. < 1217379160 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Namely, the Iliad. < 1217379225 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You see, some Greeks wanted to make a nomic that would run right on top of a server, with root privileges, and their best warrior, Achilles, was going to implement it. < 1217379235 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dont you love the anachronisms in the Iliad? < 1217379246 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's so applicable to daily life, even. < 1217379274 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then their leader, Agamemnon, saw someone else was offering to implement it instead, so Achilles got angry and left. < 1217379307 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Greeks were unhappy and all, because stuff wasn't getting done, so Achilles laid out the conditions for his return, and Agamemnon accepted, so he returned. < 1217379337 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now Achilles just has to kill Hector. < 1217379398 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho_: did you know that because you decided to write a proposal system, your name will live forever but you will die an early death? < 1217379431 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pardon < 1217379442 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. i kill hector tomorrow. < 1217379448 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay! < 1217379561 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah... gmail has an HTML mode. < 1217379564 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye for today < 1217379574 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye. < 1217379640 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1217382317 0 :lilja!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anachronism! < 1217382320 0 :lilja!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sin of sins! < 1217383111 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be fairly excellent < 1217383113 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to have like < 1217383128 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a language with a lot of simple operators that do implicit things < 1217383140 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(3|2) == x < 1217383175 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could conceptualize it as object oriented < 1217383178 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're not really objects. < 1217383180 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl. Maybe. < 1217383185 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes... Perl does that one < 1217383191 0 :megatron!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1217383195 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm skores < 1217383200 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does (3|2) == x do? < 1217383205 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was very excited when Perl 6 was announced to have that. < 1217383218 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree < 1217383219 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lamen returns true if x is 2 or 3 < 1217383228 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1217383234 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mapping trees, oklotalk has those < 1217383240 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-nod- < 1217383244 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish javascript had that < 1217383247 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i REALLY wish it did < 1217383253 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are so many times where it could be useful < 1217383277 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flag == ("this" || "that" || ...) < 1217383280 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i have that on a higher level in, err, i forget in which language, so that it's automatically referred from types of functions < 1217383285 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :python has "in" < 1217383293 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in JS we generally just do something like < 1217383297 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right... but I like the idea of < 1217383302 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if flag in ["this", "that", ...]: < 1217383308 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :["this","that",...].indexOf(x) >= 0 < 1217383315 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"objectifying" certain operations < 1217383317 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: ugh < 1217383318 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that they're transparent < 1217383322 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: i know :( < 1217383323 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in lots of code. < 1217383326 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use python < 1217383327 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1217383338 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: that's a bit different and you know it :D < 1217383343 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JS arrays dont even have indexOf in IE < 1217383348 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no idea why the smiley! < 1217383352 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they dont have a contains method either < 1217383360 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to implement your own < 1217383364 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not impossible to do mind you < 1217383365 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1217383381 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prototype or mootools to the rescue? < 1217383388 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Array.prototype.contains = function(obj){ return this.indexOf(obj) != -1; } < 1217383395 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still < 1217383402 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think in most languages it's impossible to implement the general idea of mapping trees yourself < 1217383410 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in JS, in only works on object keys < 1217383423 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eg: "foo" in { foo: 1, bar: 2 } => true < 1217383426 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can get close with oo+operator overloading ofc < 1217383439 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could also have array programming... but have it explicitly... implicitly map. < 1217383444 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like 'in' (as in python) more than the perl thing < 1217383455 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more explicit, more simple, is not really a new language feature < 1217383466 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :follows occam < 1217383473 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works with any container object < 1217383508 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like "the Perl thing" because it's... what I originally expected < 1217383510 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1217383515 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first thing I remember when I was working with boolean operators < 1217383524 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats the perl thing again? < 1217383529 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x == (a|b|c)? < 1217383531 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was "why the hell can't I do x == (2 and 1)" < 1217383532 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1217383534 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also goodbye < 1217383538 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1217383548 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like both. i think they should be used for different things, honestly < 1217383549 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course I know why now < 1217383565 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it makes sense logically that it should be able to do that. < 1217383577 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've gone from "should have" to "naturally don't have" to "should have" back again to "should have as something you can add yourself" on that feature in languages < 1217383578 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: well yeah... in is a containment check. < 1217383593 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the perl one has a nice non-deterministic-like property < 1217383606 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1217383609 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would expect this: < 1217383614 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 == (1 or 2) < 1217383618 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to return true < 1217383620 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this: < 1217383622 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 == (1 and 2) < 1217383626 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to return (true and false) < 1217383627 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1217383630 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...hmmm < 1217383641 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would expect just false... < 1217383672 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean like == (x and y) means == x && == y? < 1217383674 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just false is what a mapping tree would do < 1217383682 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...more or less. < 1217383685 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not quite < 1217383686 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i that makes sense. < 1217383687 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1217383700 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a == (b and c) ==== ((a==b) and (a==c)) < 1217383702 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1 and 2) == (1 and 2) would also be true.... < 1217383717 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically once it makes sense, you apply everything, before that, you just build the mapping tree up < 1217383728 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i figure that nothing EVERY can be a and b < 1217383729 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1217383735 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :regardless of what a and b are < 1217383738 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so long as a != b < 1217383749 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres nothing that == a and == b < 1217383750 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...the example I just gave would logically be true. < 1217383756 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1 and 2) makes no sense, typewise, so you make a mapping tree out of it, a lambda that applies the operator to things in all leaves, then evaluates the whole tree < 1217383775 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cakeprophet: i dont get your example. i mean, i get it in one sense, but not in another < 1217383782 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so when you do 1 == (...), because == returns a boolean, you apply to all leaves the lambda (1 ==) < 1217383793 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1 and 2) == (1 and 2) makes sense in that the structures, etc match < 1217383794 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you probably get it in the rational sense. < 1217383798 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not in the "I'm a programmer" sense < 1217383809 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it makes no sense given the other definitions < 1217383826 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what other definitions? < 1217383833 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way the other things should because < 1217383836 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus, consider what i said before < 1217383838 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a != b < 1217383846 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then x == (a and b) must return false < 1217383854 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well (1 and 2) == (1 and 2) ===> ((1 and 2) == 1 and (1 and 2) == 2) ===> (1 == 1 and 2 == 1 and 1 == 2 and 2 == 2) < 1217383856 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...nope < 1217383859 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in all cases < 1217383878 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if a != b, and x == (a and b) is equivalent to (x == a) && (x == b) < 1217383889 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes sense when you're dealing with scalar values... but not values that are the combinations of scalars. < 1217383893 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the transitivity of equality would require that a == b < 1217383901 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :combinations of scalars using and? < 1217383928 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont think we have a proper semantics for "anded" values < 1217383933 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes... just consider, not from any sort of formal definition, but from rational thinking < 1217383944 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would (1 and 2) = (1 and 2) be? < 1217383959 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know, because we havent defined what (1 and 2) _as a value_ is < 1217383965 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, before we establied that < 1217383971 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :== (x and y) < 1217383972 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is equivalent to < 1217383976 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :== x and == y < 1217383986 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what should it be? the most obvious case? < 1217383993 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because oyu said so? < 1217383997 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1217384002 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no sorry oklopol did and i thought you did < 1217384013 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind :D < 1217384020 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1217384022 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but like i was suggesting earlier < 1217384024 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the problem with just having it be a mapping tree which i've invented and fully specced years ago? < 1217384038 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: nothing. < 1217384054 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instinctually i would want to say that (1 and 2) is a single value that is simultaneously 1 and 2 < 1217384079 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantum integer < 1217384084 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have yet to argue for any specific underlying implemntation... only consider what it should do in obvious cases. < 1217384093 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would be vaguely akin to a set < 1217384103 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the obvious case you mean < 1217384109 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x and y) == (x and y) < 1217384110 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1217384122 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the hell does it look like it would be? < 1217384123 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is 2 == 2? < 1217384130 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is x == x < 1217384132 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in all other logic ever < 1217384147 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on your definitions. :D < 1217384153 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in haskell [] == [] < 1217384157 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in JS [] != [] < 1217384165 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it depends entirely on how you interpret these things < 1217384174 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have "A and B" be a kinda "quantum set" that's simultaneously A and B, and A or B be something that's either < 1217384206 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then use some kinda cool collapsing to get nondeterminism yay < 1217384211 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: not dealing with computer language here... purely logic. < 1217384213 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in logic < 1217384215 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x is always x < 1217384219 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, its not < 1217384226 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because in logic you still have definitions < 1217384230 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1217384234 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of them being that x is always x.... < 1217384235 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: no difference between logic and programming languages < 1217384236 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1217384238 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it depends on which form of logic you're using < 1217384266 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: you can have a formal system where [] isn't necessarily the same as another [] < 1217384276 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's true. < 1217384282 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we don't have that here. :) < 1217384289 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we dont have ANYTHING < 1217384293 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because we havent DEFINED anything < 1217384295 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright fine... < 1217384304 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can define the concept of a "unique object", and just formally define non-structural, id-based equivalence < 1217384323 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a duck != a duck in logic < 1217384343 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: well that is a different thing < 1217384348 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it tho < 1217384361 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a duck = x for which x is in the set of ducks < 1217384362 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a duck" because like x | Duck(x) < 1217384389 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a duck" is just a selector of an item from a collection < 1217384401 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i'm sure we both know the concept < 1217384412 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, let A be the set of all possible combinations formed by (x and y) < 1217384433 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then is (1 and 2) not a selector on A? < 1217384434 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we now have that x == x where x is any immutable value (numbers and boolean combinations) < 1217384460 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1217384465 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cakeprophet, ok < 1217384468 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to get all "depends on the definition" < 1217384470 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is my definition < 1217384475 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1217384476 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1217384501 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that was never the problem :) < 1217384510 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what? < 1217384535 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem was whether or not (1 and 2) is a construction of a new anded entity, or isn't it < 1217384556 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what else could it be? < 1217384563 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it depends on your definition! < 1217384637 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then ofcourse, because we're talking about multiple values, how you evaluate == on such multiple valued entities is not inherently the same as how you evaluate it on single valued entities < 1217384640 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a logical construct... I don't know what else you want. It exists as its own entity, but its equivalences with other entities is based on its values. < 1217384641 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because as you said < 1217384647 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x == x for any immutable value of x < 1217384653 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but (1 and 2) is not an immutable value < 1217384658 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is immutable valueS < 1217384675 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: depends on your definition. ;) < 1217384679 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case < 1217384679 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly! < 1217384680 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1217384688 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it is an immutable value consisting of immutable values. < 1217384690 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1217384695 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is not append < 1217384701 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for this construct < 1217384702 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is it one value, that is composed of others < 1217384708 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it simply just multiple values not one < 1217384741 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would say it is both < 1217384745 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it makes little difference < 1217384753 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofcourse it makes a difference! < 1217384758 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if its one value composed of other values < 1217384767 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then 1 == (1 and 1) should always return false < 1217384778 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why is that? < 1217384783 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since (1 and 1) is a composite that happens to be composed of the same thing < 1217384786 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but its still COMPOSITE < 1217384796 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we say that (x and y) are composite. < 1217384800 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically what I am saying < 1217384823 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically what _I_ am saying is that there is no right answer, formally or otherwise < 1217384835 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there is no need to differenciate between it being one value of multiple values... or just being multiple values. < 1217384842 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...right. < 1217384849 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am telling you how I would like it to work. < 1217384852 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. < 1217384868 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well just provide a collection of examples < 1217384889 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would say my biggest collection of examples would be the English language. < 1217384905 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you say.... for example. < 1217384906 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you dont want to go there.. :) < 1217384916 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 is 1 and 1 < 1217384919 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :regardless of formal bullshit < 1217384926 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone will answer no. < 1217384927 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a true statement or not? < 1217384933 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because 1 and 1 means 1+1 in normal english. < 1217384942 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1217384953 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...got me there. < 1217384961 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im a linguist, baby < 1217384966 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is what i do < 1217384986 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...then I am honestly not sure what my definition derives from < 1217384993 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, to me, it is just what makes sense < 1217384999 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the semantics of conjunctions in english are like the shorthands oklopol proposed earlier. < 1217385020 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :furthermore, "is" in english is far more tricky than you can imagine < 1217385046 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, consider this sentence: < 1217385054 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No man is a duck. < 1217385097 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now compare that to < 1217385107 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Paris is the capital of France < 1217385118 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these two are VEEERRRY different, semantically < 1217385129 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically is can apply to multiple things < 1217385134 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it can describe a relation. < 1217385262 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I think my definition of and is much like a set or a list. < 1217385273 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with == being both the containment test and the standard value equality test < 1217385380 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your is is the same as my is :) < 1217385383 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its complicated < 1217385387 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is = equality, and containment, mostly, although adjectives aren't exactly sets in english, and i guess there are some other weird exceptions as well < 1217385398 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is is occasionally identity, and occasionally membership < 1217385415 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tho its not actually membership, its empty in those cases < 1217385417 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's pretty much descriptive and not imperitive at all. < 1217385423 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the determiner seems to govern membership < 1217385425 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya and also quality, unless you want to define a property as the set of things characterized by it < 1217385464 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other languages dont have this sort of thing. many languages have different verbs of is to mean different things < 1217385484 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cakeprophet, as for "no man is a duck" < 1217385487 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would make more sense < 1217385496 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when describing the structure of a sentence < 1217385518 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to narrow it down to one definition of the word. < 1217385553 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sentence can be seen as having these truth conditions: ¬∃x.(Man(x)∧Duck(x)) < 1217385570 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while "Paris is the capital of France" is more like it looks < 1217385576 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Paris = Capital_of_France < 1217385606 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point im trying to make tho is that is is very complicated < 1217385615 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mr clinton wasn't entirely wrong in that regard < 1217385830 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Paris is the capital of France" : France.capital = Paris < 1217385834 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mutters about the copula being ridiculously complex < 1217385852 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Paris is a capital of France": append(France.capitals, Paris) < 1217385866 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming no previous context < 1217385874 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets not use append < 1217385877 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats silly < 1217385886 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Paris <- France.capitals < 1217385896 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's a Python thinker, apparently; let him be silly. < 1217385919 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-shrug- notation. < 1217385929 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks more like Prolog actually < 1217385941 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but let me ask you cake prophet < 1217385942 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever. < 1217385956 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My mind is thinking 'copula', not 'coding'. < 1217385976 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what part of the sentence "Paris is a capital of France" encodes the ∈? < 1217385990 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hint: its not "is" < 1217386011 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what is that operator again? < 1217386017 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :element-of < 1217386020 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is not familiar with set theory operators. < 1217386022 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1217386030 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1217386056 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just can't see them; no Unicode. < 1217386060 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1217386063 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<- for element of < 1217386070 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :E for there-exists < 1217386071 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does append(A, B) look like prolog? what would that even mean? < 1217386073 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and A for for-all < 1217386136 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it just does < 1217386148 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what could it possibly mean? < 1217386160 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it depends, but supposing A is some list, and b is some item < 1217386178 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would probably mean nothing < 1217386183 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1217386185 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have to do something like < 1217386192 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :append(A, B, item) < 1217386213 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1217386219 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good, good, for a minute there i thought you didn't know anything about prolog, which is a scary thought < 1217386239 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it still looks like prolog since its an assertion using a predication < 1217386286 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1217386298 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the copula in english is terribly odd and weird. < 1217386315 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, given the context, it'd be a sensible contains(A, B) < 1217386353 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1217386368 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but think what it would mean to say something like < 1217386369 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods at psygnisfive  < 1217386376 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Paris is none of the capitals of France < 1217386381 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is "is" doing here? < 1217386385 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ir < 1217386386 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1217386398 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No city is a capital of France < 1217386406 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Confusing the fuck out of me. < 1217386414 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1217386424 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the is is doing nothing < 1217386425 0 :lilja!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrrr < 1217386434 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in these sentences, everything is controlled by the quantifiers < 1217386440 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...right. < 1217386518 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in attribution, e.g. roses are red < 1217386528 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "is" is empty as well < 1217386567 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does however set up some sort of context < 1217386574 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for all the other quantifiers to be... regarded in. < 1217386580 0 :lilja!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good night < 1217386587 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what context? < 1217386596 0 :lilja!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"KVIrc 3.2.0 'Realia'" < 1217386603 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I mean < 1217386612 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what "other" quantifiers? is is not a quantifier < 1217386626 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :::gives everyone smores:: < 1217386638 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION eats < 1217386639 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how the quantifiers effect the sentence is affected by the verb < 1217386644 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if is were a different verb < 1217386656 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then they would have different effects, or perhaps make the sentence complete nonsense. < 1217386669 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean something like < 1217386671 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All birds fly? < 1217386682 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...sure < 1217386684 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infact, you're half right < 1217386695 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems more like is converts things into verbs. < 1217386696 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is < 1217386702 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All birds fly is presumed to look like < 1217386715 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ax.Bird(x)->Fly(x) < 1217386724 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas All Birds are fliers < 1217386737 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is assumed to mean Ax.Bird(x)->Flier(x) < 1217386745 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is essentially the same thing < 1217386752 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1217386765 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because Flier is defined to be... everything that flies. < 1217386769 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's the same thing. < 1217386769 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems that is allows predicating nouns to predicate < 1217386793 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the is of identity is different! < 1217386802 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm happy that you're happy." < 1217386820 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what AT&T's motto is? < 1217386825 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're not happy till you're not happy. < 1217386826 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1217386928 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, "is" doesnt seem to set up any context. it's use is different in different places < 1217386941 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've always enjoy when people say "speed of gravity" when talking about physics < 1217386949 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because gravity has no speed itself. < 1217386949 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPEED OF FAST < 1217386957 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually gravity does have a speed < 1217386964 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...oh lawd < 1217386966 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like all forces, gravity propagates at the speed of light < 1217386970 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not even debating this. < 1217386971 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1217386990 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tho thats not what people mean i dont think :D < 1217387004 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did i mention i was a physics major before switching to linguistics? :) < 1217387013 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dual major, < 1217387017 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know you want to. < 1217387018 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1217387021 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i was going to < 1217387034 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i had to drop the physics part because the school i transfered to sort of messed me up < 1217387106 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always imagine a force not to have a specific speed < 1217387108 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only < 1217387121 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it depends on what you mean by saying that a force has a speed < 1217387128 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a speed at which other things accelerate when affected by it. < 1217387144 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CakeProphet: I always imagine a force propogating at the speed of light is the only sane speed. < 1217387155 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you know that the strong nuclear force gets strong the further from it you get? < 1217387163 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, hell: if it were instantaneous, good lord... < 1217387170 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :further from another object, i mean < 1217387178 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I recall hearing that somewhere < 1217387184 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We'd have the means to communicate across the universe in 0 time at all. < 1217387188 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is to say, the further apart two quarks are, the more they're pulled towards one another < 1217387213 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: I thought the force remained exactly the same regardless of distance. < 1217387218 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope. < 1217387243 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its why you cant separate quarks into a quark gluon plasma < 1217387250 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :atleast, not easilly. < 1217387266 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happens when you pull apart a proton? < 1217387273 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im about to describe that :p < 1217387293 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you try to tear two quarks apart, the density of gluons between the two quarks gets so great that new quarks begin to emerge < 1217387302 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus all you end up doing is making new quarks < 1217387307 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never free quarks from one another. < 1217387395 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do similar with light, actually. slam two gamma rays into one another and if they have sufficient energy you get an electron-positron pair < 1217387420 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, if they lack sufficient energy, will ofcourse collapse into one another and spin off another pair of gamma rays heading back where they came from < 1217387432 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is just fucking awesome. < 1217387435 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is :D < 1217387445 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :matter is energy < 1217387448 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's almost like a Game of Life pattern... < 1217387456 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this "is" is the "is" of identity < 1217387457 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1217387472 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if the universe is a nondeterministic cellular automaton < 1217387473 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: wolfram thinks the universe is a CA. < 1217387485 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But can he prove it? < 1217387488 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should check out A New Kind of Science < 1217387497 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe he needs to get someone else to prove it for him. < 1217387506 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i think Smolin is interested in weird and funky ideas like that < 1217387517 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a way to formulate a theory of quantum gravity < 1217387528 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(cue ais523, with an elegant proof which a line is too small to contain...) < 1217387550 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most string theorists think that the Theory of Everything will actually only be an inch long < 1217387608 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Truncated discrete-time Fourier transform. < 1217387615 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking off < 1217387616 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of* < 1217387617 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More than an inch and less than a Theory of Everything. < 1217387627 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: :D < 1217387632 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know how to program STFTs? < 1217387645 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not I. < 1217387649 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using FFTs? < 1217387655 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know. < 1217387664 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to make a spectrogram-to-audio convertor < 1217387667 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both directions < 1217387829 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't you just kind of slice out a rectangular window and FFT that? < 1217387856 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you need to use a windowing function < 1217387864 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i dont know how to program these things. :O < 1217387872 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i might, actually < 1217388319 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just ignore the windowing function aspect of things. < 1217388326 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i cant! < 1217388344 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use a rectangular window, then. < 1217388349 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cant! < 1217388353 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to have multiple windows < 1217388357 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1217388361 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spectrogram. < 1217388422 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Normish a.k.a. rootnomic has been satisfactorily backed up. Rejoice. < 1217388776 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1217388793 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1217392709 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1217394431 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1217398484 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.cust.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1217399114 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1217400505 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"HydraIRC -> http://google.com <- Go find something better" < 1217401796 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oi! < 1217404756 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1217404799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1217404800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1217406983 0 :lament!n=lament@S0106000d3a705704.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1217408253 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-82-181.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1217409076 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1217409080 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1217409392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :morning < 1217410068 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-82-181.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1217410428 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1217412087 0 :psygnisf_!n=psygnisf@c-71-57-164-119.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1217412087 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1217412127 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1217414222 0 :tusho!n=tusho@91.105.96.84 JOIN :#esoteric < 1217414281 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn. < 1217414283 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people replied.. < 1217414310 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"HydraIRC -> http://google.com <- Go find something better" < 1217414606 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1217415264 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1217415279 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the listar management program for those lists' websites hasn't been updatied since 2003 < 1217415285 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the last commits were 2 in 2006 < 1217419796 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1217422822 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:01:42 if flag in ["this", "that", ...]: < 1217422825 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, he's not here < 1217422829 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-61-245.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1217423654 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1217425499 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1217426825 0 :pikhq!n=Pikhq@asst01.asunix.tufts.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1217426924 0 :atsampson!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1217427032 0 :Metaly!i=METALY@97.Red-83-58-72.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1217427264 0 :AnarKo!i=METALY@37.Red-88-1-59.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1217427292 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host113-88-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1217427297 0 :AnarKo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1217427435 0 :AnarKo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Jot < 1217427467 0 :AnarKo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where can i find a detailed description of this languaje? < 1217427586 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the linked page < 1217427600 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ling.ucsd.edu/~barker/Iota/#Goedel < 1217427653 0 :jemarch!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnarKo: http://web.archive.org/web/20061105204247/http://ling.ucsd.edu/~barker/Iota/ < 1217427992 0 :AnarKo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is only a scheme implementation < 1217428012 0 :AnarKo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i dont understand it < 1217428037 0 :AnarKo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://web.archive.org/web/20061213214326/ling.ucsd.edu/~barker/Iota/jot.scm < 1217428144 0 :AnarKo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone can translate it to c, python or php? < 1217428298 0 :AnarKo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or bf :) < 1217428431 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnarKo: in python: < 1217428445 0 :Metaly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1217428463 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def jot(v=(lambda x: x)): < 1217428471 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1217428484 0 :AnarKo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok thanks < 1217428634 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnarKo: http://rafb.net/p/9XLyki20.html < 1217428716 0 :AnarKo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you very much < 1217428810 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnarKo: hope it's easier to understand < 1217428813 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : jot(v(lambda x: lambda y: lambda z: x(z)(y(z)))(lambda x: lambda y: x)) < 1217428817 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is admittedly not very intuitive < 1217428835 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, AnarKo < 1217428836 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you run that with < 1217428837 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jot() < 1217428843 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it reads from standard input < 1217430045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"thunderstorm" < 1217430857 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1217431267 0 :Hiato!n=Hiato@dsl-245-31-70.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1217431279 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1217431768 0 :alexbobp!n=alex@rrcs-71-42-225-50.sw.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1217431940 0 :AnarKo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1217433431 0 :RodgerTheGreat!n=Rodger@wads-5-232-63.resnet.mtu.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1217433474 0 :MikeRiley!n=rileym@las-static-208.57.195.80.mpowercom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1217433535 0 :ais523!n=ais523@vc01-fap01.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1217433536 0 :ihope!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1217433563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi tusho < 1217433566 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1217433634 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi tusho < 1217433636 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1217433643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ihope < 1217433657 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1217433774 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :epohi < 1217433802 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today on #esoteric: Agora. < 1217433822 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: lol wut? < 1217433833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I've been thinking recently about how Agora is possibly an esolang < 1217433835 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every day on ##nomic: Agora. :P < 1217433845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a worse one in some ways than Malbolge < 1217433854 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Malbolge is a hostile language, but at least it stays the same < 1217433864 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas Agora (to be precise, scamming Agora) is a programming language too < 1217433869 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: agora throws 5 exceptions each time you put a command in a comment < 1217433877 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but one which changes semantics, and occasionally syntax, regularly < 1217433884 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A programming language with a living element! < 1217433888 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and where the interpreter is both intelligent and actively hostile < 1217433902 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of like the reverse of IRP, where the interpreter is intelligent but benign < 1217434680 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1217434748 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"rebooting, will be back soon" < 1217434925 0 :alexbobp!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1217435014 0 :ais523!n=ais523@vc01-fap01.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1217435339 0 :kar8nga!n=ctc@j-116.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1217435885 0 :Tritonio_!n=tritonio@150.140.227.109 JOIN :#esoteric < 1217436340 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1217437491 0 :alexbobp!n=alex@rrcs-71-42-225-53.sw.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1217438709 0 :timotiis!n=timotiis@host86-166-149-26.range86-166.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1217438718 0 :timotiis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1217439212 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-61-245.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1217440300 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1217441464 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1217441636 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1217441748 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.cust.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1217441777 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-82-181.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1217441882 0 :jemarch!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ERC Version 5.0 (CVS) $Revision: 1.1.1.1 $ (IRC client for Emacs)" < 1217442583 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :tushooooooooo < 1217442605 0 :tushooooooooo!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :tusho < 1217443196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hi! < 1217443207 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi AnMaster, probably for about 5 minutes < 1217443217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh leaving? :( < 1217443224 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this place closes in about 5 minutes < 1217443232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I can move elsewhere if necessary < 1217443233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ouch, going somewhere else after I hope? < 1217443277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah good < 1217443290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, was wondering what your current plans for C-INTERCAL are < 1217443302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything new interesting? < 1217443344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I've had vague plans for several things for a while < 1217443352 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance a theft client for network access with CLC-INTERCAL < 1217443364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in effect an FFI with CLC? < 1217443368 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and an attempt to come up with a practical INTERCAL-like language < 1217443368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about J-INTERCAL? < 1217443376 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not really, just for communicating information < 1217443380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :practical.... INTERCAL like? < 1217443380 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL networking is weird < 1217443388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's certainly possible < 1217443390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, INTERCAL got networking? < 1217443394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean like sockets? < 1217443398 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not exactly < 1217443403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :programs can steal variables from other programs < 1217443403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me! < 1217443410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1217443418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, could you write a HTTP client in INTERCAL? < 1217443427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, will you make it possible? < 1217443434 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLC-INTERCAL has a system-calls extension to do ordinary socket-based networking < 1217443438 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's very ordinary < 1217443444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :system-calls extension yeah < 1217443444 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from the way it passes arguments < 1217443451 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: uhm < 1217443452 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERNET < 1217443456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be like C-FFI really kind of < 1217443457 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I could code something like that up easily as a C-INTERCAL expansion library < 1217443463 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: INTERNET's the variable-stealing thing < 1217443468 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1217443473 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the system-calls extension is the ordinary socket-based networking thing < 1217443502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, got a better idea how to do it in an INTERCAL way then? < 1217443522 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really, it's just an ordinary language feature < 1217443530 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so should probably be done by FFIing or not at all < 1217443533 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to go, anyway < 1217443542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, come back! < 1217443547 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1217443548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elsewhere < 1217443548 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"(1) DO COME FROM ".2~.2"~#1 WHILE :1 <- "'?.1$.2'~'"':1/.1$.2'~#0"$#65535'"$"'"'&.1$.2'~'#0$#65535'"$#0'~#32767$#1"" < 1217443549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1217444203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1217444458 0 :ais523!n=ais523@vc01-fap01.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1217444486 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi tusho < 1217444568 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1217445078 0 :psygnisf_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lalala < 1217445133 0 :psygnisf_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :psygnisfive < 1217445571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah there you are ais523 < 1217445579 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1217445912 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bacj < 1217445956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so I'd love to see the steal client thing < 1217445976 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have great fun just netcatting to an INTERCAL theft server < 1217445995 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'd probably write a client first as a perfectly good server comes with CLC-INTERCAL < 1217446660 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1217446830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1217446838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah.... < 1217446941 0 :Santa_wii!i=Chaterof@2.Red-83-34-120.dynamicIP.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1217447028 0 :Santa_wii!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi? < 1217447033 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1217447066 0 :Santa_wii!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a moment I thought this was empty ^^U < 1217447076 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it just has dead spells now and again < 1217447138 0 :Santa_wii!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ^^U < 1217447168 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: anyway, what do you want to talk about? Presumably you called me back here for a reason < 1217447196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes about C-INTERCAL future < 1217447210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I'm not doing much on it atm < 1217447220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what are you working on then? < 1217447223 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I did test it on Cygwin recently and it worked fine, so that's another platform it's tested on < 1217447230 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: getting back to normal sleep patterns mostly < 1217447235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ouch :( < 1217447237 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also planning other esolangs < 1217447268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, like what? < 1217447282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there's that Shove thing that I'd like to code at some point < 1217447432 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is ^^U meant to be < 1217447436 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :honestly < 1217448190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, tell me about shove < 1217448201 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I explained it earlier < 1217448207 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Befunge+Underload < 1217448212 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a stack of strings < 1217448219 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL-like quoting on stringmode < 1217448236 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the only commands are ' " < > v ^ and the other four which I don't really have good symbols for < 1217448242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other 4 are also directional < 1217448327 0 :kar8nga!n=ctc@k-90.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1217448698 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: use unicode < 1217448705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of that < 1217448715 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but unicode in Funges has always been a bad idea for various reasons < 1217448725 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking of maybe A V ( ) or something like that < 1217448755 0 :Santa_wii!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1217448757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1217448764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one < 1217448796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you'd want IO too < 1217448808 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but there's no obvious way to do it < 1217448919 0 :MikeRiley!n=rileym@las-static-208.57.195.80.mpowercom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1217449132 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive heard that fortran is blazingly fast, is this true? < 1217449157 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard that it's very good for what it does, but don't have much experience < 1217449166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's certainly blazingly short for maths compared to COBOL < 1217449175 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1217449185 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fortran is relatively quick... < 1217449197 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quicker than c? < 1217449205 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on the compiler, but i would say yes < 1217449214 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ew. < 1217449220 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate c but i'd prefer to code in c than fortran < 1217449232 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :been a long time since i have coded in fortran < 1217449237 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much prefer c,,,,much easier... < 1217449238 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still slower than properly written asm though < 1217449249 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed, cannot beat assembly... < 1217449264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when writing for extreme speed normally I write in C but have the asm output open in another window < 1217449267 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well duh :P < 1217449272 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and keep tweaking the C until it produces the asm I want < 1217449293 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally inlining the asm if I can't find any way to get the compiler to write it < 1217449298 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if its possible to design a CPU that runs a high level language natively < 1217449301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer to have a portable program though < 1217449304 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot depends on what you are doing as what languages would be quicker... < 1217449310 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie the high level language IS assembly for that CPY < 1217449312 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CPU* < 1217449313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: several computers were built that ran Lisp natively < 1217449325 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure,,,i have seen a cpu once that ran forth natively < 1217449326 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but i think they decomposed them to something lower, didnt they? < 1217449334 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forth i can definitely see < 1217449336 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forth, java, lisp cpus have all existed < 1217449350 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd like to see a forth and lisp cpu < 1217449353 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have heard of lisp ones as well.. < 1217449359 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :java ones iirc usually based on a forth one, but rebranded and equipped with a small interpreter :D < 1217449366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, C can be faster at some stuff < 1217449372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like general purpose programming < 1217449386 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for most things c has more than enough performance... < 1217449388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FORTRAN is likely faster at math < 1217449406 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep,,,fortran is faster for math < 1217449412 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1217449429 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :less complicated code, less instructions to execute....fewer instructions,,,faster run... < 1217449444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there has been a brainfuck CPU too < 1217449448 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is that the case tho?? < 1217449455 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C has to rely on procedure calls for much maths stuff < 1217449456 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really???? although that one should not be too hard to do.... < 1217449456 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what does fortran actually have besides like vector operations and compilers built from a culture of compiling math programs? < 1217449463 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would like to see a befunge one!!! < 1217449464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and compilers can't inline it as well as the Fortran ones can < 1217449474 0 :alexbobp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, trying to understand lambda calculus is making me so confused < 1217449479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: yes, so would I < 1217449481 0 :atrapado!i=ro@cm37094.red.mundo-r.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1217449494 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it has vector operations? i can see that being useful then < 1217449505 0 :alexbobp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a good introduction to unlambda? < 1217449539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the official unlambda website is quite good < 1217449551 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a lot easier if you learn ordinary lambda calculus before you learn unlambda < 1217449565 0 :alexbobp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, how do I learn lambda calculus? < 1217449578 0 :alexbobp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The page about it on the esolang wiki made my head hurt < 1217449606 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alexbobp: read the normal wiki page < 1217449618 0 :alexbobp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: on wikipedia? okay. < 1217449712 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster: changed my FING fingerprint to just two commands...so now no weirdness about dealing the semantic stacks... < 1217449725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1217449725 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the new FING fingerprint? < 1217449728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FNGR? < 1217449731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or FING? < 1217449734 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FING < 1217449734 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y (sem -- ) Drop semantic < 1217449734 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Z (src dst -- ) Push source semantic onto dst < 1217449741 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FING,,,,,FNGR stays as it is... < 1217449754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, and what exactly does that do? you mean drop a char like Z or whatever < 1217449756 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where do you get semantics from? < 1217449758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to push/pull one char? < 1217449773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, isn't this like IMAP really? < 1217449776 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Z will copy a semantic from the top of one semantic stack to another < 1217449777 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: heh, that's some simplification :-) < 1217449780 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the same as IMAP < 1217449792 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y will drop the semantic off the top of a single semantic stack < 1217449807 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok, so you can mess around with what letter means what < 1217449822 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMAP maps at the high level....FING maps at the semantic level...so can make one semantic act like another... < 1217449827 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes... < 1217449839 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: it should work for non-fingerprints too IMO < 1217449844 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes... < 1217449855 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: but what if another fingerprint defines Y and Z < 1217449867 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: well, normal fingerprint rules apply, surely? < 1217449871 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is this still acting as though FING weren't there < 1217449881 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but you can't easily mess with what Y and Z do < 1217449888 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes you can < 1217449895 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can, but not easily < 1217449896 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y and Z just have meanings like any other fingerprint < 1217449902 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can just manipulate them with FING < 1217449907 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1217449914 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you push something onto Y < 1217449921 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to push Y somewhere else first, so that you can use it again < 1217449927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but that isn't really a problem < 1217449942 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a problem with the earlier iteration of FING which defined around 20 commands :-) < 1217449953 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :docs? < 1217449966 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not, except in my and others' irc logs < 1217449970 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y and Z could not re remapped with FING loaded < 1217449978 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aceept to put something on top of them,,, < 1217450026 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/08.07.27 has 'em < 1217450034 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i think the new FING will work better... < 1217450039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, for an even more interesting way to do FING... have an X command which swaps a fingerprint stack with a data stack < 1217450060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc you then need numbers to represent semantics but that isn't too hard < 1217450082 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, if it swapped with the SOSS that would work nicely < 1217450085 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X may not work depending on how the interpreter is writtne....would work for Rc/Funge,,,,may not for others... < 1217450142 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rc/Funge-98 uses function numbers on the semantic stacks...so esily can be put onto a data stack... < 1217450144 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even better, let X swap two stacks < 1217450152 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but those interpreters that use function references,,,would be more difficult... < 1217450160 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the swap 2 stacks idea... < 1217450163 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead or as well < 1217450198 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including FING,,,,Rc/Funge-98 defines 8 new fingerprints.... < 1217450231 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in version 1.10 < 1217450267 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: have you done IFFI? < 1217450280 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no,,,since i do not have a compatable intercal to connect it to... < 1217450308 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's designed so it doesn't need to be connected to an intercal interp, you can just use the FFI within a Befunge program if you like < 1217450319 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make calls to itself with COME FROM and suchlike < 1217450326 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's more useful if there's an INTERCAL program there too < 1217450368 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :been too long since i have done anything with intercal... < 1217450380 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what language is RC/Funge written in? < 1217450383 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c < 1217450395 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... maybe I should see if I can modify it to work with C-INTERCAL too < 1217450404 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then there would be two different ways to generate libick_ecto_b98.a < 1217450470 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rc/Funge-98 was written back when my programming habits were not terribly good,,,as a result,,,a lot of odd code in it... < 1217450539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well all that really needs doing is modifying the main loop and having a load of fingerprints that just set flags < 1217450570 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main loop is the worst of all!!!! ehehehehehe it has been modifed a bit to handle some of my feral fingerprints... < 1217450595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear < 1217450599 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but presumably it is just a simple loop? < 1217450610 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all that's needed is some extra things that happen every iteration < 1217450619 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a simple loop... < 1217450690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, why not remap Y and Z < 1217450694 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :part of my current work on the thing is to clean up the code a bit... < 1217450697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way cfunge does it you would < 1217450699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could* < 1217450702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be easy even < 1217450710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you could unload those semantics < 1217450714 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could remap Y and Z < 1217450722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using unload and load < 1217450726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like for other fingerprints < 1217450738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is just pushing function pointers around < 1217450741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not hard at all < 1217450762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A-Z are already stacks of function pointers in cfunge < 1217450763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1217450770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :push/pop/peek < 1217450873 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FING Y and Z now function in Rc/Funge-98.... < 1217450882 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still like the idea of X for a stack swap.... < 1217451028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, um you mean swap top entries between two stacks? < 1217451033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that could work < 1217451039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is just messing with function pointers < 1217451045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfectly valid < 1217451059 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep....should be easy impliment... < 1217451069 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :swapping entire stacks could work too, and could also be quite easy < 1217451083 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure which would be more useful, probably top entries < 1217451087 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to decide which is most useful, swap whole stacks, or just tops. < 1217451219 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1217451220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, swap whole stacks would be a bit more work < 1217451221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way it is done in cfunge < 1217451231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn I'm timing out < 1217451280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: are they linked lists? < 1217451289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so they're easy to swap < 1217451302 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you only have to swap the pointers to the top and bottom < 1217451302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, they are stacks, as in malloced blocks < 1217451303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simply < 1217451309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, array-based stacks < 1217451314 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that could be harder < 1217451314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you need to copy over top pointers and such too < 1217451603 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1217451611 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1217451684 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am using either the 0-25 or the 'A - 'Z as valid parameters < 1217451782 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an invalid parameter reflects < 1217451793 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :decided on X swapping top entries... < 1217451808 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=cypher@HSI-KBW-091-089-028-216.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1217452268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A-Z < 1217452271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems better < 1217452277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, 0-25 is just silly < 1217452303 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1217452334 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if Befunge had the same attitude of INTERCAL, you could swap a letter and newline and it would shuffle all the lines on the playfield around to match < 1217452339 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/of/as/ < 1217452367 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1217452435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err no... < 1217452439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that I would never implement < 1217452450 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it would break your efficiency stuff? < 1217452460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, because it would be hard to implement < 1217452463 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does have a bit of a ring to it, though, and that sort of thing is par for the course in INTERCAL < 1217452468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would simply not implement that fingerprint < 1217452475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Befunge isn't INTERCAL < 1217452526 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would not be the first fingerprint nobody implemented.... < 1217453033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, I'll implement FING the way you would do it < 1217453047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :next weekend after figuring out the thread bug < 1217453053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err this weekend < 1217453067 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thread bug?? < 1217453114 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here is what i implemented: < 1217453117 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"FING" 0x46494e47 < 1217453117 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X (sem sem -- ) Swap two semantics < 1217453117 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y (sem -- ) Drop semantic < 1217453117 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Z (src dst -- ) Push source semantic onto dst < 1217453117 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sem can be 0-25 or 'A through 'Z. Any other value is an error and < 1217453118 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will reflect < 1217453214 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X works only on top of stack... < 1217453742 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1217454021 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1217455052 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host113-88-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1217455190 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Abandonando" < 1217455781 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1217456060 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@c-66-31-43-229.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1217456756 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1217456995 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1217459471 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1217459471 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1217459471 0 :lifthras1ir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1217459624 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@c-66-31-43-229.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1217459624 0 :lifthras1ir!n=lifthras@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1217459624 0 :fizzie!n=fis@sesefras.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1217459687 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-82-181.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1217459776 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1217460715 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1217460938 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1217461187 0 :kar8nga!n=ctc@m-254.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1217461214 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1217461235 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1217461258 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :?