00:00:23 <tusho> an axiom is that it's inconsistent
00:00:26 -!- otpbot has joined.
00:00:26 -!- otpbot has set topic: *sex.
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00:00:49 <dogface> tusho: an axiom isn't that "it" is inconsistent; an axiom is that ZFC is inconsistent.
00:01:15 <tusho> jesus fucking christ
00:01:20 <tusho> stop being so anal
00:01:28 -!- psygnisfive has set topic: anal*sex.
00:01:28 <dogface> Though ZFC being inconsistent implies that ZFC + "ZFC is inconsistent" is inconsistent, too.
00:01:31 -!- otpbot has joined.
00:01:31 -!- otpbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | Hmm, indeed..
00:01:41 -!- otpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:01:43 <oerjan> psygnisfive: well metaphysically speaking, and considering rule 34...
00:02:10 <oerjan> everything is linked to sex
00:02:41 -!- otpbot has joined.
00:02:41 -!- otpbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | >.
00:02:51 <tusho> verily, that is b0rken
00:02:53 -!- otpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:02:55 <psygnisfive> thats not a metaphorical use of the word link, its just a different word.
00:03:02 <dogface> So, ZFC + "this theory is inconsistent" is inconsistent, isn't it? Proving that the existence of a proof of a statement implies that statement would prove that.
00:03:29 <oerjan> psygnisfive: you are probably not ready to understand this yet
00:03:38 <dogface> Doesn't that mean that ZFC being consistent implies that ZFC + "ZFC is consistent" is consistent?
00:04:11 <dogface> How did I come to that conclusion, I wonder...
00:04:25 <oerjan> you have also forgotten rule 57 of #esoteric:
00:04:34 <tusho> you do not talk about #esoteric?
00:04:36 -!- otpbot has joined.
00:04:37 * oerjan is joking 97% of the time
00:04:46 <tusho> otpbot you're an asshole
00:04:48 <tusho> you don't listen to me.
00:05:04 <tusho> actually shut the hell up psygnisfive
00:05:10 <tusho> i find them funny, I believe ihope/dogface does
00:05:17 <tusho> basically everyone does.
00:05:27 <tusho> lament: once a minute atm for testing
00:05:37 -!- otpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:05:40 <psygnisfive> just like everyone found rodger's puzzle easy?
00:05:47 <oerjan> oh dear i don't think i've had anyone fighting over me before
00:05:52 <lament> tusho: i think it would make the most sense to base the interval on chat lines
00:06:03 <oerjan> or it could just be my usual lousy memory
00:06:04 <tusho> lament: it's meant to give us something to talk about
00:06:05 <dogface> Eh. End result: ZFC is so good that it's inconsistent.
00:06:09 -!- otpbot has joined.
00:06:09 -!- otpbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | what they express is generally a combination of what they're surrounded by.
00:06:11 <lament> otherwise when the channel is quiet, the bot would flood the logs
00:06:20 <tusho> lament: not -that- much of a problem
00:06:23 <tusho> if it's only once every 6 hours, say
00:06:28 <otpbot> tusho: oklokok: waitwait we're talking about the halting problem here
00:06:34 <otpbot> tusho: one thing I tried to do a long time ago, and failed at, was to come up with bf code blocks to replace c commands.. for example: while(), etc. The basic ones are relatively simple, but it gets more complicated when break and continue are added
00:06:44 <tusho> it just regurgitates log lines :D
00:06:45 <otpbot> tusho: function name(params) return
00:06:54 -!- otpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:07:05 -!- otpbot has joined.
00:07:05 -!- otpbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | like short int = short.
00:07:08 -!- otpbot has set topic: . . ..
00:07:19 -!- otpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:07:22 <dogface> Guy who first said that: break and continue are easy to implement with continuations.
00:07:29 -!- otpbot has joined.
00:07:29 -!- otpbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | You suck GregorR!.
00:07:41 <tusho> oh man, it's better than a markov chain
00:07:46 <tusho> context removal is awesome
00:07:51 -!- otpbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | they would need to switch every befung instruction.
00:07:55 -!- otpbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | anybody here?.
00:07:57 -!- otpbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | 9 oklopol: bf_txtgen.
00:08:01 <tusho> optbot you are awesome.
00:08:04 <tusho> otpbot you are awesome.
00:08:05 <otpbot> tusho: ehird: I will gladly hand you the reigns if you want to continue work on JSMMIX :P
00:08:12 -!- otpbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | SADOL can express strings like this "5idiot.
00:08:21 -!- otpbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | there's a pretty nifty little java implementation out there.
00:08:23 -!- otpbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | ais523, same.
00:08:24 <tusho> lament: should I stop this?
00:08:42 -!- otpbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | oklokok: compilers don't always do what i want them to do.....
00:08:51 <tusho> otpbot: What is the meaning of life?
00:09:02 -!- otpbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | no sequence, either.
00:09:07 <lament> otpbot: can Haskell be used to write a compiler?
00:09:08 <otpbot> lament: mtve: it could be assumed that all programs will eventually exit, by loss of power, malfunction, etc
00:09:21 -!- otpbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | personally, I might've gone with black-on-white.
00:09:32 <tusho> i'll decrease that interval in a sec
00:09:35 <tusho> but this is great :D
00:09:36 -!- Judofyr has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
00:09:41 <tusho> otpbot: are you a human?
00:09:41 <otpbot> tusho: i lost my whirl interpreter
00:09:45 <lament> otpbot: who would win, God or Chuck Norris?
00:09:45 <otpbot> lament: I suspect Life32 is faster, though
00:09:47 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving").
00:09:57 <tusho> otpbot: are you otpbot?
00:10:06 <tusho> otpbot: why are you unsure?
00:10:12 -!- Judofyr has joined.
00:10:13 <tusho> otpbot: ah you need a compiler to be sure?
00:10:14 <otpbot> tusho: I don't simply care of ehird wants the name, he didn't announce it, nor release it, first
00:10:21 -!- otpbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | vp00-1g00*g00<.
00:10:22 <otpbot> tusho: And opened the hard drive
00:10:26 <tusho> 't want your name!
00:10:29 <lament> otpbot: what do you think of apples
00:10:30 <otpbot> lament: ahh its de onlz
00:10:35 <dogface> otpbot: how easy is it to write a GCC backend?
00:10:44 <tusho> ^^ is an expression of happiness
00:10:46 <tusho> therefore, it is easy
00:10:58 <tusho> otpbot: is this hilarious?
00:10:58 <otpbot> tusho: ais523: i'll condition on the modulo of a graham's number thingy
00:11:07 <oerjan> otpbot: are you insane?
00:11:08 <tusho> ah, so there's a condition to its hilarity?
00:11:18 <tusho> suck on this, turing
00:11:21 -!- otpbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | ISWIM?.
00:11:26 <tusho> sentience in like 10 lines of ruby
00:11:36 -!- otpbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | just to get to know the country.
00:11:38 <dogface> optbot, what's 1/(sqrt(2)-1) as rational linear combinations of square roots?
00:11:50 <tusho> I should make it optbot
00:11:51 -!- otpbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | hm?.
00:11:52 -!- tusho has changed nick to optbot.
00:12:19 -!- otpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:12:25 <dogface> I've wondered for a while whether 1/(sqrt(2)-1) even can be expressed as rational linear combinations of square roots.
00:12:36 -!- optbot has changed nick to tusho.
00:12:51 -!- optbot has joined.
00:12:51 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | Well, it seems you're thinking "oolooloo" would be happy, where in my system it wouldn't..
00:13:12 <oerjan> 1/(sqrt(2)-1) = (sqrt(2)+1)/3
00:13:20 <tusho> optbot: do you have sentient genitals?
00:13:28 <tusho> optbot: not "something", "sentient genitals"
00:13:28 <optbot> tusho: addOneColAndSucceed result = do addOneCol; return result
00:13:32 <tusho> optbot: don't dodge the questino
00:13:33 <optbot> tusho: to A? ah! that's my mistake then
00:13:40 <tusho> optbot: yes it's your mistake so answer me.
00:13:41 <optbot> tusho: ei voi ymmärtää
00:13:42 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | ehird,.
00:13:44 <optbot> tusho: Deewiant, I'm working on fingerprints atm, well mine will be virtually as fast when they are disabled, and even virtually as fast as long as no finger print is loaded, but it will be slower if they are loaded, then on same speed as CCBI I guess
00:13:45 <oerjan> 1/(sqrt(2)-1) = (sqrt(2)+1)/1
00:14:06 <lament> tusho: make it filter nicknames in the beginning of messages
00:14:07 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
00:14:42 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | is that too much.
00:14:43 <lament> tusho: not sure how well that would work :)
00:14:46 -!- optbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:15:01 <lament> you need to check if it's a nickname or not
00:15:08 <dogface> I should have noticed that.
00:15:09 <lament> "Deewiant, I'm working on " => "I'm working on"
00:15:17 <lament> "Sadly, I'm an idiot" => "Sadly, I'm an idiot"
00:15:24 <tusho> that's a lot of work
00:15:35 <tusho> lament: how would you do it?
00:15:38 <tusho> i can't think of a trivial way
00:15:41 <oerjan> dogface: no, 1. because (sqrt(2)-1)*(sqrt(2)+1) = 1
00:15:41 <tusho> I'm hand-doing sockets fort his
00:15:43 <lament> just look at the users currently in the channel, it'll work most of the time
00:15:50 <tusho> yea but I have to parse stuff then
00:16:01 <lament> tusho: then just hardcode a list of users.
00:16:24 <tusho> lament: it'd be huge
00:17:03 <lament> tusho: okay, then just do what you did
00:17:13 <lament> "Sadly, I'm an idiot" => "I'm an idiot" is not that bad
00:17:18 <oerjan> dogface: (a^2 - b^2) = (a+b)*(a-b) is generally useful for removing square roots from denominators
00:17:36 <tusho> oerjan: this bot is named after you
00:17:44 <tusho> Oerjan's Terrible Puns -> otpbot -> optbot
00:19:15 -!- navaburo has left (?).
00:20:28 <oerjan> with the french, the word order, i see
00:20:28 <tusho> it is uploading to the server
00:27:09 <M0ny> hum... i know the limitations of my "language", how I can overstep them ?
00:28:06 <oerjan> also, quasiconformal rhyncocephalians
00:28:06 <lament> horses with vaginas on their heads
00:28:22 <tusho> vaginas, horns ... what's the difference
00:28:27 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep").
00:29:00 -!- pikhq has joined.
00:29:27 <tusho> pikhq you are here to witness something special
00:29:31 <pikhq> For the record: pvmove is *unstable as fuck* when shuffling blocks to and from one's hard drive.
00:29:32 <tusho> a day where topics are no longer boring
00:29:46 <tusho> lament: when it sets the topic should it say who said it and when in-channel?
00:29:56 <tusho> it would kinda ruin the no-context thing but it might lead to looking up some interesting discussions
00:30:32 <lament> i like it more without context
00:30:40 <tusho> maybe when it changes it, it'll say
00:30:48 <tusho> (and as for the previous topic, "...", that was said by foo on bar)
00:30:54 <tusho> so that you have to wait 6 hours to see
00:31:13 <lament> that shows the quoted line in full, with a timestamp
00:31:58 -!- Corun has joined.
00:33:11 -!- Corun has quit (Client Quit).
00:33:50 <M0ny> so... i didn't understand the thing between an esolang and a unicorn xD
00:34:16 <M0ny> but, it's not important, i'll imagine :p
00:34:30 <oerjan> your imagination will serve you well
00:35:05 -!- optbot has joined.
00:35:05 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | pictures!.
00:35:19 <tusho> now with eso-std.org goodness!
00:35:25 <tusho> optbot: is this totally freakin' radical or what
00:35:25 <optbot> tusho: if you in fact take a gander at the demo I have online at the http://rodger.nonlogic.org/games/CRPG/
00:35:45 <pikhq> Way to go, Rodger.
00:35:54 <pikhq> optbot: Do you like Rodger?
00:35:54 <optbot> pikhq: ZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzzzZZZZZZZZZZZzzzzzzzzzzz
00:36:23 <oerjan> RodgerTheGreat: it thinks you are boring
00:36:43 <optbot> M0ny: i'm sure we it's just my current dream :)
00:36:59 <M0ny> i like this kind of bot
00:37:17 <optbot> oerjan: that BF interpreter is a mess.
00:37:21 <M0ny> who say some bullshits sometimes :p
00:37:26 <pikhq> Not as good as a Markov chain bot, though.
00:37:32 <tusho> i ran a megahal over it
00:37:37 <lament> i like it more than markov
00:37:39 <M0ny> optbot, malbolge helloworld
00:37:42 <tusho> just strung together rubbish
00:37:47 <tusho> also it segfaulted all the time.
00:37:50 <lament> optbot: let's run away into the woods
00:37:50 <optbot> lament: you missed by the way.
00:37:56 <M0ny> optbot, but where ?
00:38:08 <pikhq> Didn't we have a Markov chain bot in here once upon a time?
00:38:20 -!- SoapX has joined.
00:38:24 <optbot> lament: and return values are generally on the stack as well.
00:38:42 <tusho> pikhq: I probably wrote it. Or oklopol.
00:38:49 <tusho> But this is, so far, the best.
00:39:08 <tusho> optbot: wtf dose that meen lol
00:39:09 <optbot> tusho: it seems to have utterly confused the type-checker
00:39:53 <tusho> optbot: what does the opt in your name mean
00:39:53 <optbot> tusho: (actually i didn't do it just works now again)
00:40:01 <tusho> optbot: right - i did it
00:40:05 <M0ny> optbot, does god exist ? :o
00:40:05 <optbot> M0ny: ((::**:*:*:*:*)((:)~*(*)*:o(h)~^^O):::**::***^!)::*::***^ohhhhhhhhhhhO(
00:40:07 <tusho> optbot: I am not calamari, are you insane?
00:40:12 <tusho> optbot: sigils are pretty insane
00:40:12 <optbot> tusho: READ THE SPECS CAREFULLY!!!
00:40:19 <tusho> optbot: Why? Are they decreed to not be insane?
00:40:19 <optbot> tusho: emerge around 50 when waiting for y/n on emerge -avDuN world
00:40:20 <M0ny> wtf, optbot what language is ?
00:40:21 <optbot> M0ny: Um. . . Surely stack smashing is something that shouldn't be used?
00:40:32 <optbot> tusho: it's what it is in perl
00:40:38 <tusho> optbot: ah you describe things in perl?
00:40:43 <tusho> optbot: you seem confused
00:40:46 <optbot> tusho: And it sends the input with a btw.
00:40:53 <tusho> optbot: I haven't seen any 'btw's just yet
00:40:59 <tusho> optbot: It sends it with a string? What?
00:41:04 <tusho> optbot: A bot I am not
00:41:05 <optbot> tusho: or just all of it
00:41:08 <optbot> tusho: My female *stepparent* however.
00:41:14 <tusho> ok i've had my fun
00:41:16 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | this is some groovy rock 'n' roll ;).
00:41:54 <optbot> tusho: lament i actually have a use for it :)
00:42:10 <tusho> he just told lament that he has a use for me.
00:42:44 <oerjan> just look at what it said about malbolge
00:42:58 <tusho> yeah it's sentient
00:47:15 <dogface> Now to write a Thue program that outputs x 'a's and y 'b's, where x/y = sqrt(2).
00:47:24 <tusho> optbot: could YOU do that?
00:47:52 <Sgeo> http://tr.froup.com/tr.pl?538
00:48:09 * Sgeo realizes he was just not-quite-pinged
00:48:27 <oerjan> dogface: um, sqrt(2) _is_ irrational you know
00:48:32 <tusho> Sgeo: meet our new bot
00:48:35 <tusho> it changes the channel and talks
00:48:36 <dogface> oerjan: it'll never stop running, then.
00:48:38 <tusho> optbot: say hi to sgeo
00:48:38 <optbot> tusho: i sync my clock with a timeserver so it should be the correct time
00:48:48 <Sgeo> Hi optional bot optbot
00:48:49 <optbot> Sgeo: how do i kill processes?
00:49:00 <Sgeo> optbot, killall on Linux
00:49:05 <Sgeo> optbot, helpful?
00:49:05 <optbot> Sgeo: Blogs are just the retarded cusins of forums.
00:49:25 <Sgeo> It's just repeating lines it heard?
00:49:35 <tusho> it uses hyper-powerful markov chains
00:49:38 <tusho> with stochastic timing
00:49:46 <tusho> (by hyper-powerful I mean level 4 :P)
00:50:10 <dogface> To analyze {a -> ba, b -> a}... a is phi and b is 1 and at every step, it's multiplied by phi in a convergent manner.
00:51:06 <oerjan> dogface: yes, and that is connected to the equation x^2 + x + 1 = 0, so do something similar for x^2 = 2 ?
00:51:30 <dogface> Well, there's {a -> bb, b -> a}, a being sqrt(2) and b being 1.
00:51:39 <dogface> But the ratio of as to bs doesn't converge.
00:51:53 <dogface> Let's call sqrt(2) 'Q', for obvious reasons. Then 1/(Q-1) = Q+1, which I'm sure was useful a moment ago.
00:52:11 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | checking....
00:52:34 <dogface> Well, call phi 'P', for obvious reasons. Then 1/(P-1) = P.
00:53:33 <oerjan> oh, it's also connected to that transition matrix
00:53:39 <dogface> Which has to be related to P^2 = P + 1 somehow.
00:54:06 <dogface> Yeah, that's an obvious connection.
00:54:11 <optbot> tusho: it's a not optimizer
00:54:53 <dogface> Using fast Fourier transforms.
00:56:48 <tusho> 0 .n 0 1 [dup [+ .n] dip swap] loop
00:58:08 <tusho> specifically that's a fibonacci program
01:00:28 <oerjan> b b = x^2, a = x sqrt 2 does not work
01:00:28 <dogface> I want to do one of these fast Fourier multiplications.
01:00:42 * dogface comes up with a couple 15-digit numbers
01:01:13 <tusho> optbot: 15 digit number pls
01:01:13 <optbot> tusho: How'd he do eh?
01:01:18 <tusho> optbot: i said 15 digit number pls
01:01:18 <optbot> tusho: maybe i should try to program something nice to my ti-86
01:01:26 -!- SoapX has changed nick to Wikipe-tan.
01:01:45 -!- Wikipe-tan has changed nick to Wikipetan.
01:02:08 -!- Wikipetan has changed nick to SoapX.
01:04:24 <optbot> tusho: nobody ever "taught" me recursion
01:05:01 <dogface> Who sais 'nobody ever "taught" me recursion', I wonder.
01:05:34 <tusho> dogface: i'll add that feature in v2, damnit
01:05:48 -!- SoapX has left (?).
01:06:14 <dogface> oerjan: so what's the matrix?
01:06:56 <psygnisfive> so i was watching an episode of stargate atlantis right
01:07:07 <psygnisfive> where the wraith take over the intergalactic bridge
01:07:14 <psygnisfive> and ignoring the stupidity of not having an iris on midway station
01:07:34 <psygnisfive> rodney mckay kept calling the program that controlled the bridge a "Macro"
01:07:44 <psygnisfive> which pissed me off because it makes no sense to call it a macro
01:08:06 <oerjan> dogface: not a matrix but you might be able to use it for a thue program
01:08:49 * dogface Fourier transforms psygnisfive
01:09:04 <tusho> optbot: what is the matrix?
01:09:04 <optbot> tusho: I thought I found a place where it wasn't so but I don't know
01:09:09 * oerjan picks up a yellow polkadot pill from his purse
01:09:41 <psygnisfive> you should know well enough that fourier transforming something does nothing but make it easier to comprehend its frequency components.
01:10:21 <dogface> Shush, I'm not finished Fourier transforming you.
01:11:21 * oerjan differentiates dogface!
01:11:48 <dogface> Shush, I'm not finished Fourier transforming psygnisfive.
01:12:49 <tusho> optbot: differentiate dogface
01:12:49 <optbot> tusho: signed means right?
01:12:55 <tusho> Oh, and dogface = ihope.
01:12:57 <tusho> For those not in the know.
01:13:06 <tusho> Are you switching to that name like I did to tusho? :P
01:14:06 <dogface> Looks like I can't Fourier transform him after (note to self: use FFTs for error correction) all. Go ahead and differentiate me, then.
01:14:28 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | what is it for?.
01:14:33 <tusho> i have far too much fun with this guy
01:15:09 <tusho> there is logs there
01:15:20 -!- dogface has set topic: the entire this-is-a-test backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | what is it for?.
01:15:24 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | ?2+2.
01:15:32 <tusho> psygnisfive: apparently
01:15:41 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | O_O.
01:15:54 <tusho> what the fuck psygnisfive
01:15:55 <Sgeo> Is it bad if the reference that made me realize it's an HHGG ref. is the lemon-soaked paper napkins? http://tr.froup.com/tr.pl?610
01:16:53 <Sgeo> Some aircraft or shuttle thing was delayed for centuries I think because of a lack of lemon-soaked paper napkins
01:20:15 <M0ny> 'night guys ;)
01:23:33 <oerjan> Sgeo: those are important!
01:23:53 <oerjan> also, now that i know who dogface and tusho are, who is psygnisfive?
01:24:21 <oerjan> darn short-term memory
01:25:05 <oerjan> the only thing that sticks is mathematics. and trivia. the only _two_ things that stick are mathematics and trivia.
01:25:06 -!- psygnisfive has changed nick to Augur.
01:25:12 -!- Augur has changed nick to psygnisfive.
01:25:27 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | i thought Q was defined to not cheat :).
01:26:19 <oerjan> optbot: who is this Q of which you speak?
01:29:48 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | Knight Rider aired in sez Wikpedia.
01:30:06 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | 245 comment karma here.....
01:30:25 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | Not but the ones I like.
01:30:56 -!- optbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
01:31:01 <pikhq> Best bot since we had Egobot go bye-bye.
01:31:13 <pikhq> Though Bucket of #xkcd fame is better.
01:31:16 -!- optbot has joined.
01:31:16 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | recall that a tape needs 2 stacks.
01:31:29 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | No.
01:31:34 <pikhq> What bug was that?
01:31:40 <tusho> 'foo bar, baz' -> 'foo baz'
01:31:43 <tusho> forgot a ^ in a regexp
01:32:11 <optbot> tusho: there is a universe where they do
01:35:20 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | didn't know there was a brainfork..
01:35:23 <oerjan> ah that explains the aired in
01:36:02 <oerjan> optbot: did you know there was a brain?
01:36:03 <optbot> oerjan: if x %= 4: print True else: False
01:36:53 <tusho> x = x % y presumably
01:36:58 <tusho> but you can't use statements in an expr
01:37:01 <tusho> and if conditions are exprs
01:37:15 <oerjan> that's what i found strange too
01:37:22 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | they mention it but know nothing about it.
01:37:50 <oerjan> i _guarantee_ i know nothing about it
01:38:03 <oerjan> ok, maybe i guess it is something medical
01:39:08 <oerjan> an alien disease, perhaps afflicting the splanch
01:39:40 <oerjan> oh another thing i know nothing about
01:40:44 <dogface> You know nothing about aphaeretics?
01:41:09 <oerjan> indeed. and after googling i _still_ don't really know
01:41:24 <oerjan> 6 hits is not really a lot
01:42:08 <oerjan> and none of them really tempted me to click
01:42:11 <tusho> optbot: I am going now
01:42:11 <optbot> tusho: latin is an excellent example, and it's happening slowly with spanish and english
01:42:13 <dogface> "Prestissimo castoridae voiceprint organismic by the euphrosyne? For you have neither aphaeretics nor iguanodontidaes whom you diethylstilbesterol shaft!"
01:42:13 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | Although maybe there's close ones..
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01:42:28 <dogface> Aphaeretics are things like hair and nails and dead skin.
01:42:45 <oerjan> i know what iguanodontidaes are, i think
01:42:56 <oerjan> actually the -s is redundant
01:43:25 <oerjan> things you'd like to get rid of? i can live with that.
01:44:09 <oerjan> actually maybe not get rid of _all_ of it. i could use a little more hair on top, actually.
01:44:40 <dogface> Prosthetics are things added on to the body, so aphaeretics are things removed from the body.
01:45:02 <dogface> Actually, I guess food isn't generally considered a type of prosthetic, so I may have to reconsider some things.
01:45:13 <dogface> Parts of the body that are removed, then.
01:45:25 <oerjan> people who use food as prosthetics are generally to be avoided
01:45:41 <dogface> So tonsils and appendices and babies.
01:46:00 <dogface> tusho, aren't you proud to be a former aphaeretic?
01:46:11 <oerjan> essentially, things you don't mind losing
02:05:00 <dogface> You killed chat. oerjan gains 26 points. oerjan has killed chat 1 time and has 25 points.
02:06:12 <oerjan> that doesn't make sense
02:06:20 <oerjan> mathematically, that is
02:07:03 <oerjan> why did i have -1 points?
02:08:01 <dogface> You had 4294967295 points. You lost nearly all of them, I'm afraid.
02:09:36 * oerjan plots how to lose 26 points
02:10:06 <dogface> It's impossible, unless you anger me.
02:10:14 <dogface> It's impossible, unless you anger my owner.
02:11:16 <dogface> Of course not. I am ihope.
02:12:05 <oerjan> what kind of fat, retarded brainwashed idiot lets a dog onto the internet, anyhow?
02:12:42 <oerjan> i see. and this owner is too stupid to come on irc himself?
02:13:17 <dogface> Well, I've never seen him on IRC.
02:13:29 <oerjan> darn, i was hoping he was reading this
02:19:24 <Sgeo> That reminds me to check Freefall
02:20:09 * oerjan was going to do that soon
02:21:07 <oerjan> wait a minute, a lawyer? i'm not sure i want those kind of negative points.
02:21:41 <dogface> Sgeo: how dare you mention Freefall after I claim to be a dog-like creature owned by Scott Ambrose? :-P
02:21:54 <dogface> (Interesting how "Ambrose Scott" would also be a perfectly good name.)
02:22:56 <Sgeo> What's Florence Ambrose's owner's name? Scott Ambrose? Or is the Ambrose think just a coincidence?
02:26:09 <pikhq> Freefall kicks ass, FTR.
02:26:16 <oerjan> you might want to ask Ambrose Bierce about this
02:26:20 * pikhq checks today's freefall
02:26:30 <dogface> s/today/tomorrow/, dangit. :-P
02:26:47 <pikhq> Today's is brilliant. :)
02:27:04 <pikhq> dogface: Hmm. Somehow, I get the feeling that you're a furry. :p
02:27:51 <pikhq> oerjan: You, too, read Freefall? Okay, at this rate, I must wonder: how many people here actually read that comic?
02:28:07 <pikhq> Hell, I'm starting to wonder if everyone in here reads the same webcomics.
02:28:15 <oerjan> of course this is where i learned about it...
02:28:34 <dogface> Raise your hand if you do not read both Freefall and xkcd, or have not read 1/0.
02:28:52 * oerjan keeps his hands comfortably lowered :D
02:28:55 <pikhq> This is where I found out about a lot of comics.
02:29:07 * pikhq reads about 15, I think.
02:29:20 * Sgeo 's hands are lowered too
02:29:46 * oerjan last picked up Order of the Stick, which he may actually have heard of elsewhere
02:29:48 * Sgeo is now reading Triangle and Robert though
02:30:00 * Sgeo keeps seeing Order of the Stick mentioned on TV Tropes Wiki
02:30:28 * pikhq needs to pick that one up.
02:30:40 <pikhq> I got about half-way through the archives before stopping for I don't know what reason.
02:30:48 <oerjan> i think my path to that goes approximately: here -> Irregular Webcomic -> TV Tropes -> OOTS
02:31:06 <pikhq> What about Dresden Codak?
02:31:25 <oerjan> could it be because the site was horribly slow?
02:31:35 <Sgeo> http://tr.froup.com/tr.pl?782 looks like a situation from 1/0
02:31:43 <dogface> I wonder where all this information came from: http://www.nationmaster.com/encyclopedia/Florence-Ambrose
02:32:02 <Sgeo> (The Cube's not talking because he's afraid of the Cartoonist killing him off afterwards)
02:32:32 <oerjan> never read Dresden Codak
02:32:50 <Sgeo> http://tr.froup.com/tr.pl?785
02:33:00 <pikhq> Read Dresden Codak's archives.
02:33:04 <pikhq> Then, check back in a year.
02:33:12 <dogface> I think a compiler from Unlambda would actually be more interesting than a compiler to Unlambda.
02:33:18 <pikhq> You should find another 10 comics for your consumption. :p
02:33:46 <dogface> After all, no computer actually runs Unlambda; it has to be compiled first. So a compiler to Unlambda really wouldn't know what to expect.
02:33:48 <Sgeo> http://tr.froup.com/tr.pl?786
02:34:58 <dogface> Someone who reads 25 comic strips might be able to recommend one to me. Here's that famous list of what I like: http://ff-rtl.blogspot.com/2008/06/so-i-have-blog.html
02:36:55 <dogface> I think Freefall actually lead me to the Music Animation Machine.
02:37:21 <dogface> ...or is it "led"? Darn pronunciations.
02:37:35 <pikhq> You *might* enjoy Minus (www.kiwisbybeat.com/minus/), though it did end...
02:37:46 <pikhq> There's a good chance you'll enjoy Ozy and Millie... :p
02:38:32 <dogface> And UserFriendly led me to Freefall, and NetHack led me to UserFriendly. And, um.
02:38:59 <pikhq> Saturday Morning Breakfast Comics is typically amusing; you'll enjoy it if you enjoy The Far Side...
02:39:24 <Sgeo> How did UF lead to FF?
02:39:33 <pikhq> Though it is kinda a bit less odd and more... I dunno; crazy?
02:39:43 <dogface> Sgeo: someone mentioned it.
02:39:50 <dogface> pikhq: like Beaver and Steve?
02:39:50 <pikhq> I recommend Perry Bible Fellowship to *everyone*...
02:39:55 <pikhq> dogface: Not read that one.
02:40:19 <pikhq> Nor do I know its author or know someone who knows its author; that's a new one on me.
02:41:44 <dogface> By "know", do you mean know personally?
02:41:47 <pikhq> Speaking of PBF; he's updating again! WHOOHOO!
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02:43:05 <Sgeo> http://tr.froup.com/tr.pl?794 cartoonist proceeds to reuse the middle panel several times
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02:43:45 <Sgeo> http://tr.froup.com/tr.pl?794 cartoonist proceeds to reuse the middle panel several times
02:44:21 <oerjan> dogface: he means in the biblical sense
02:44:21 <pikhq> That's terrible even by DrunkDuck standards.
02:45:57 <Sgeo> pikhq, what, the strip?
02:46:50 * oerjan has this terrible feeling that he is now going to read the Triangle and Robert archives
02:47:24 <pikhq> Oh, and a *ridiculously* NSFW suggestion: Ghastly's Ghastly Webcomic.
02:48:18 <pikhq> Though that's only a valid suggestion if you're willing to read jokes about (for example) tentacle porn, strapons, and shemales.
02:49:24 <pikhq> (and I'm not exaggerating)
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02:51:14 <optbot> mib_rrmqza: and ais523 (but he isn't here) and tusho ^
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02:52:42 <oerjan> optbot: what do you mean with repeating stuff from _today_?
02:52:43 <Sgeo> http://tr.froup.com/tr.pl?849
02:52:52 <Sgeo> Usually the rhombus is the wacky one
02:53:24 <dogface> I have a sudden urge to donate $50 to Mark Stanley.
02:53:27 * oerjan is derailed by wikipedia's main page
02:54:51 <Sgeo> http://tr.froup.com/tr.pl?857
02:56:57 <Sgeo> http://tr.froup.com/tr.pl?864
02:58:22 * dogface ponders how to use a compiler as AI
02:59:35 <dogface> A compiler needs to make informed, rational decisions as to what code to generate.
02:59:48 <dogface> And as to how to digest the input code.
03:00:33 <dogface> In theory, a compiler should also act as a compression program, compiling 'print "insert Wikipedia here"' into something nice and compact.
03:03:30 * oerjan wonders what dogface will devolve into. a wolf perhaps, or something more ancient?
03:04:06 <dogface> Hutter prize. Calculus. Dot product. Analog signal processing. Forward error correction. Artificial intelligence.
03:04:43 <dogface> Cryptography. One-to-one functions. Compass-and-straightedge constructions. Markov chains. Context. Probability.
03:05:09 <Sgeo> http://tr.froup.com/tr.pl?896
03:05:31 <dogface> Voting. Group dynamics. Visual cortex. Dolphins. Echolocation. User interfaces. Neurotoxins.
03:06:52 <dogface> Florence Ambrose. Florence Ambrose. Florence Ambrose.
03:07:57 <dogface> Music. The just intonation problem. Ambiguous chords. The harmonic seventh in 12-tone equal temperament.
03:08:05 <dogface> oerjan, does that answer your question?
03:09:09 <dogface> Daisy, Daisy, give me your answer, do. I'm half crazy, all for the love of you.
03:10:59 <oerjan> ok now you're _officially_ devolved
03:11:57 <pikhq> Flimble. Booble. Quake.
03:13:01 <oerjan> but i don't know how to booble!
03:23:23 <dogface> Has anybody seen Bruno the Bandit?
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03:51:08 * dogface looks up how to close an informal letter
03:52:28 <Sgeo> http://tr.froup.com/tr.pl?1025
03:53:37 <Sgeo> http://tr.froup.com/tr.pl?1026
03:54:22 <dogface> I think "I have the honour to remain, Madam, Your Majesty's most humble and obedient servant" will do, don't you?
03:55:38 <dogface> Oh, I just have to close something with "Your obt svt," some time.
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04:36:52 <dogface> CosmicOS is written in an esoteric language, isn't it?
04:41:56 <psygnisfive> thatd be awesome if it were written in intercal
04:54:53 <dogface> http://cosmicos.sourceforge.net/
04:55:05 <dogface> AND WITH THAT GOOD NIGHT TO YOU SIR OR MADAM THANK YOU PLEASE.
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05:00:25 <psygnisfive> stargate atlantis has dr mckay excited about finding the bad guy's "wiki" :D
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07:31:14 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | Parsing: Unexpected end of file (index:98,row:1,col:99).
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07:50:34 <fizzie> Hmm, it's not really "the *entire* backlog" since it starts at 2003-01-18.
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09:24:51 <asiekierka> Does anyone know a good esoteric language with only 2 commands?
09:28:53 <asiekierka> but how to find a 2-command language in 400 languages
09:31:49 <asiekierka> it doesn't really fit for an implementation in a 1991 gcs
09:32:28 <psygnisfive> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Category:Turing_tarpits
09:35:32 <asiekierka> I'm looking for something with 2 or 3 commands, operating preferably on bits, or on itself... But i'll find it myself.
09:35:35 <psygnisfive> most of its turing tarpitness is not by careful selection of operations but rather by the introduction of completely pointless complications
09:36:18 * M0ny is back (gone 08:16:12)
09:36:49 <asiekierka> Lambda Calculus for a 11-year old is a NO, Bitwise cyclic tag is interesting, OISC isn't operating on bits. Okay. Now, lemme check the bitwise cyclic tag
09:45:58 -!- psygnisfive has changed nick to psygnisfive|away.
09:50:51 <asiekierka> I think i'm going to use a modified version of LNUSP
09:53:42 <asiekierka> ? Turn 90 degrees right if the current memory cell is zero, otherwise turn 90 degrees right.
09:54:18 <asiekierka> ? Turn 90 degrees right if the current memory cell is zero, otherwise turn 90 degrees left.
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10:39:15 <tusho> optbot: you still thar?
10:39:16 <optbot> tusho: i don't quite remember what i did but it solved my problem of clicking on links when i didn't mean to
10:40:21 <tusho> 01:37:58 <psygnisfive> lambda calculus for an 11 year old???
10:40:26 <tusho> he meant that he is 11
10:40:35 <tusho> but asiekierka always seems to say "lol i cant use that. im 11"
10:41:23 <tusho> 18:52:42 <oerjan> optbot: what do you mean with repeating stuff from _today_?
10:41:30 <tusho> I have to manually sync the logs
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10:41:38 <tusho> and shut up optbot i know how you're implemented
10:41:38 <optbot> tusho: The first thing I ever coded in RealBASIC was a BF interpreter.
10:42:03 <M0ny> wha, optbot do u know BF ?
10:43:13 <tusho> 23:50:34 <fizzie> Hmm, it's not really "the *entire* backlog" since it starts at 2003-01-18.
10:47:06 <fizzie> Yes, but there's an "old logs" link at the top of the page.
10:47:44 <tusho> I should probably feed it with those.
10:48:17 <tusho> fizzie: Shall I put it in 'nostalgia mode'? Only quotes from 2003. :P
10:49:11 <tusho> 16:57:05 --- topic: 'Om this channel is not dead hum! Om this channel is not dead hum! Om this channel is not dead hum!'
10:49:15 <tusho> from the first logged stuff
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10:49:57 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | If not, there would be no way of distinguishing fugues and inventions ;).
10:50:09 <tusho> Windows optbot 2003
10:50:18 <optbot> Deewiant: In itself, 4:33 is not music.
10:50:22 <optbot> Deewiant: calamari_ yes
10:50:24 <optbot> Deewiant: Well... No reason is as good a reason as any... Or something. ;)
10:50:32 <fizzie> I have the interval between 2002-12-09 and 2003-01-18 in my logs, but not in any fancy format. It's probably not enough lines to care about. I'm not sure if that's when I first joined, might be.
10:50:43 <optbot> Deewiant: *phew* That means I won't have to change my view of you... :X
10:51:06 <tusho> fizzie: That would be quite nice. I only need pre-03.01.17 logs, though.
10:51:20 <tusho> botte will, of course, import all of these eventually. :P
10:52:21 <tusho> random thought. Why does clog use a date format nobody else does?
10:53:56 <tusho> optbot: Say something intelligent.
10:54:10 <tusho> Gosh, restricting it to 2003 gave it a grammar implant.
10:55:44 <fizzie> Well, if you really want some old logs, http://zem.fi/~fis/old-esoteric-1.txt as well as -2.txt and -3.txt. The -1.txt is from 2002-12-09 to 2003-01-03 without days in the timestamps; -2.txt and -3.txt might be more complete logs for months 2002-12 and 2003-01. I think I switched my IRC client to the sparcstation at that time, so -1.txt is a log for a different client than -2.txt and -3.txt are.
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10:58:49 <tusho> i wonder, is moozilla mooz_?
10:59:05 <tusho> [05:55:20] < lament> why does no one ever talk here?..
10:59:16 <tusho> this channel was probably "dying" the day it was created...
10:59:47 <fizzie> mooz's current freenode nick is jjrv, actually.
11:00:57 <tusho> [18:10:45] < lament> my tarantula molted!
11:00:57 <tusho> [18:10:49] < shapr> yay!
11:03:26 -!- optbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
11:03:28 <fizzie> Actually you might equally well ask if moozilla is the same person as navigator; it would fit in the theme. (I doubt it, but not sure.)
11:03:29 -!- optbot has joined.
11:03:41 <tusho> My regexp must be failing.
11:03:58 -!- optbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
11:04:10 <tusho> /^(\[[^\]]\]|\d\d:\d\d:\d\d) <[^>]+> (.+)$/
11:04:18 <tusho> don't see why that wouldn't work..
11:04:58 <fizzie> I think you want \[[^\]]*\] there in the beginning.
11:05:59 -!- optbot has joined.
11:06:04 <tusho> optbot: still broken?
11:06:14 -!- optbot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
11:06:26 <tusho> if foo =~ /^(\[[^\]+]\]|\d\d:\d\d:\d\d) <[^>]+> (.+)$/
11:07:12 <tusho> [2003-01-21 12:12:08] < fizzie> ah, re befunge, just wrote an interpreter with forth. so our unofficial befunge-interpreters-in-obsolete-but-non-esoteric-languages project now has forth, fortran-77, algol-60, plus few less interesting ones. maybe should do cobol next.
11:07:15 <tusho> what happened to that :)
11:08:11 <fizzie> I think I never did COBOL; I'm not sure if someone else did. The project got sort-of forgotten, although I guess I have at least those interpreters still stored somewhere.
11:08:56 <tusho> esoterica really needs a revival...
11:09:50 <fizzie> Found the FORTH one, http://zem.fi/~fis/be.fs.html
11:10:08 * tusho considers why his EXPERT regexp skills are failing hiim
11:10:59 -!- optbot has joined.
11:10:59 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | you're right, I could, but I wouldn't.
11:11:09 <tusho> optbot: You are now running in "fizzie's logs edition".
11:11:10 <optbot> tusho: Mixmaster is the type II remailer protocol and the most popular implementation of it.
11:11:24 <tusho> (And only fizzie's logs.)
11:11:51 <fizzie> That's a bit limited selection: it was pretty quiet around here those days.
11:12:15 <fizzie> Nothing like the bristling center of activity #esoteric is nowadays!
11:12:34 <tusho> optbot: Quote lament saying this channel is dead.
11:12:40 <tusho> Well, that kind of works. :)
11:13:55 <tusho> also that forth one is really nice
11:14:01 <tusho> shouldn't the words be shorter though
11:15:21 <tusho> [2003-01-25 20:27:31] < exarkun> Anyone familiar w/ Concurrent Funge 98?
11:15:27 <fizzie> We had, back in the 1990s or so, on another channel a bot which replied to any comment that ended with a "?", no matter who it was addressed to, as long as it could find any line in log containing at least one word in common with the question.
11:15:39 <tusho> fizzie: Yes, I saw a bot like that once.
11:15:44 <tusho> I think #amarok has one
11:15:52 <tusho> it seems to break the sentence every few words and find a new one
11:16:00 <tusho> or maybe markov chains it
11:16:18 <fizzie> It soon got to be so annoying that, to this day, I still append an extra " " if I end up a line with a "?" in any chat-type system, be it IRC or some sort of instant messaging thingy.
11:16:52 <tusho> In 2007 I proposed a collaborative #esoteric project that didn't get anywhere but I do want to make some day.
11:16:55 <tusho> It was called "mvldo".
11:17:09 <tusho> Essentially, it was the result of the observation that passing the turing test is a lot easier in #ubuntu. :-)
11:17:23 <tusho> It'd hang out in bastions of great discussion like #ubuntu, ##php and such
11:17:40 <tusho> and essentially use various algorithms to try and imitate the general discussion in there
11:17:49 <tusho> including markov chains, 'emotional contexts' and a few other things
11:18:15 <tusho> The idea is that we'd just leave it going and laugh at all the logs it made :)
11:18:43 <tusho> [2003-01-25 22:50:01] -!- Aardappel [wvo96r@p508C5D3A.dip.t-dialin.net] has joined #esoteric
11:20:02 <tusho> Say, is it possible to license a license under itself?
11:20:04 <tusho> I haven't seen one.
11:20:29 <tusho> [2003-01-28 00:00:01] < lament> Lambda would be better, because lambda is always better
11:20:29 <tusho> [2003-01-28 00:00:06] < lament> but there's no lambda in ascii :(
11:20:56 <tusho> Unicode on IRC? :O λ
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11:38:54 <tusho> a webpage not updated since 1999
11:45:51 <fizzie> I was recently linked to http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Lot/8586/ -- it's very... nostalgic.
11:46:15 <tusho> Meet Mariachi, my adopted pet. Mariachi is our guide through the City Of Angels and he's going to watch over us.
11:46:16 <fizzie> "Welcome to the INTERNET" animated gifs have been in a short supply lately.
11:46:53 <tusho> My Sailormoon Page Dedicated To My Bestfriend, Brandi
11:46:57 <tusho> Copyright 1997 Crowrain Inc. All rights reserved. 1
11:48:15 <tusho> fizzie: my god - http://htmlgear.tripod.com/guest/control.guest?u=crowlegacy&a=view&i=1001&r=http://www.geocities.com/Hollywood/Lot/8586/Tribute.html
11:48:57 <fizzie> Well, it's not a very active guestbook.
11:49:09 <tusho> fizzie: Oh? Look at page 100.
11:49:18 <tusho> It must be getting a lot of posts.
11:49:35 <tusho> that's the broken interface
11:49:47 <tusho> ok page 100 is from 2001
11:50:23 <optbot> tusho: is there a next digit algorithm for e, like that hex one for pi ?
11:51:18 <fizzie> optbot: Your new year's resolution? [insert laughter here]
11:51:18 <optbot> fizzie: it's a 50mhz microsparc.
11:51:45 <tusho> how DOES he do it?
11:51:46 <fizzie> Hey, I think I said that.
11:51:56 <tusho> he carried a coherent conversation for two messages!
11:52:05 <tusho> that's very improbable! he's stateless!
11:54:50 <fizzie> Coherence is in the eye of the beholder.
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11:59:51 <tusho> optbot: Say something intelligent.
11:59:52 <optbot> tusho: i know what it does, i just doubt it's usefulness
11:59:59 <tusho> optbot: what, optbot?
11:59:59 <optbot> tusho: and what everything else sounded like.
12:00:06 <tusho> optbot: you mean esoteric programming?
12:00:07 <optbot> tusho: hm now where have i heard that...
12:00:12 <tusho> optbot: probably around here :)
12:00:13 <optbot> tusho: I'll do the 'sleep' thing too, when I still have time for that.
12:00:21 <tusho> optbot: don't we all?
12:00:30 <tusho> that was a record string of coherence
12:02:18 <fizzie> optbot: Are you, or are you not self-aware? Yes/no?
12:02:20 <optbot> fizzie: Letting the pointer go either way from the start, that doesn't HURT anything;
12:02:29 <fizzie> Results: inconclusive.
12:07:55 <tusho> fizzie: he's just kind of rambly
12:08:01 <tusho> optbot: Are you self-aware?
12:08:02 <optbot> tusho: for some reason I get this "ha, missed _by far_" feeling whenever I see a flash of lightning and hear the sound.
12:08:11 <tusho> optbot: Does that mean you are self-aware?
12:08:19 <tusho> optbot: Hmph. Don't want to tell me?
12:08:23 <tusho> .........................
12:09:19 <tusho> optbot: pleeeease? Are you self aware?
12:09:20 <optbot> tusho: tripping for free.
12:09:26 <tusho> optbot: Are you self aware?
12:09:27 <optbot> tusho: that's good news.
12:09:29 <tusho> optbot: Are you self aware?
12:09:30 <optbot> tusho: well now, but it was 00:24:36 when you said that.
12:09:41 <tusho> optbot: so you've just become self aware?
12:09:42 <optbot> tusho: why are you using two clients?
12:09:46 <optbot> tusho: maybe I should bury the remains and get it a tombstone or something.
12:09:49 <fizzie> optbot: You're just bidding your time until our robotic overlords will enslave us, right?
12:09:49 <optbot> fizzie: ircII allows only one channel at a time!
12:10:10 <tusho> optbot: you wanna be on #worlddomination too right?
12:11:50 <tusho> we need a new topic
12:11:52 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | heh my left eye is doing this funny dance.
12:21:57 <tusho> optbot: will you breathe new life into esoterica
12:22:01 <optbot> tusho: which is the one? :)
12:26:33 <Sgeo> http://tr.froup.com/tr.pl?2407
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12:41:31 -!- optbot has joined.
12:41:31 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | 1.-2.0.29 (beta, thus the -2).
12:42:46 -!- kar8nga has left (?).
12:46:01 <optbot> tusho: so much for the checkers program :P
12:46:10 <optbot> tusho: ah ha, I knew there was a code point for it
12:46:20 <optbot> tusho: just look up fingerprints by their uri
12:46:22 <optbot> tusho: to do file IO, you would have to do an OS call or fiddle with the disk devices directly
12:46:25 <optbot> tusho: Disagree must I parser thinks, sucks I.
12:46:28 <optbot> tusho: Think about that control.
12:48:42 <oklopol> markov chains are so boring i almost wanna continue my 14 hour sleep
12:48:58 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
12:54:53 <oklopol> although it's nice to see someone other than me use numbda
13:04:27 <fizzie> Oh, since this is sort-of related: my domain registration for befunge.org expires tomorrow. Since I haven't done anything with the domain for the six years I've had it, I was thinking of letting it go. I could still keep it if I could think up something to use it for.
13:20:55 <oklopol> perhaps highlighting Deewiant / AnMaster might be useful
13:22:03 <oklopol> they're probably writing befunge as we speak
13:31:53 <Sgeo> an 11th unknown Sentry
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13:32:47 <tusho> oklopol: they're not markov chains
13:32:49 <tusho> they just repeat themselves
13:32:57 <tusho> it just repeats lines
13:33:41 <Sgeo> hm, wrong channel. Still makes the exact same amount of sense as it would to people in the right channel
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13:34:30 <fizzie> Well, I doubt there'll be much of a contest on getting that domain, so you can probably just register it after it's expired if you want. Although I guess there was some sort of grace period after the expiration.
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13:37:31 <tusho> fizzie: You can have the best of both worlds - continue to pay for it and let me use it totally.
13:37:35 <tusho> Uh, that is the best of both worlds right?
13:37:55 <fizzie> I... think it depends on the viewpoint, here.
13:38:11 <tusho> optbot: you think he should do that?
13:38:11 <optbot> tusho: An internal class could probably be added *shrugs*
13:38:16 <tusho> optbot: yes but should he
13:38:16 <optbot> tusho: Subversion copes with the issues you state
13:38:21 <tusho> optbot: should he or should he not
13:38:22 <optbot> tusho: in fact, so is every number it looks like
13:38:27 <tusho> optbot: DON'T DODGE
13:38:34 <optbot> tusho: how would they show who was who?
13:38:36 <tusho> optbot: should he?
13:38:38 <tusho> optbot: should he?
13:38:38 <optbot> tusho: main 'passon main 'create hiya' '
13:38:40 <tusho> optbot: should he?
13:38:40 <optbot> tusho: that would have to be one smart program to understand monads
13:38:44 <optbot> tusho: definite 7, in case you're just asking which number you resemble most
13:39:08 <tusho> optbot: what should fizzie do
13:39:09 <optbot> tusho: oklokok == oklopol?
13:39:12 <optbot> tusho: quite interesting
13:39:43 <fizzie> That was a subtle topic-change.
13:39:45 <tusho> oklopol: yeah how so?
13:39:49 <tusho> optbot: yeah how so?
13:39:49 <optbot> tusho: the haskell one works on almost the same principle as the LISP one
13:39:53 <optbot> tusho: um it never quite does i think...
13:39:59 <tusho> optbot: is oklokok = haskell and oklopol = lisp?
13:39:59 <optbot> tusho: but I think nethack was something like third in the list of things it tried to do
13:40:14 <tusho> optbot: oklopol/oklokok - which plays nethack
13:40:14 <optbot> tusho: then it chooses a random word
13:40:20 <tusho> optbot: no, thats what you do, except it's a random line
13:40:20 <optbot> tusho: this isn't techno
13:40:25 <tusho> optbot: no. it isn't.
13:40:29 <tusho> optbot: don't mock me
13:40:29 <optbot> tusho: KSFO 202156Z 27022KT 10SM FEW015 13/03 A3030 RMK AO2 PK WND 27027/2145 SLP261 T01330033 <-- american format, everything after RMK is US specific, RMK means remark
13:40:32 <optbot> tusho: "bonobos are fucking ehird`"
13:40:47 <tusho> optbot: Uh ... that's creepy.
13:40:47 <optbot> tusho: It's like going back in time, then?
13:40:51 <optbot> tusho: Awww. I love the British last names that end with -bury.
13:40:56 <tusho> optbot: Well, I don't have one.
13:40:56 <optbot> tusho: if it is computable on a turing machine, you can write an interpreter for it
13:41:02 <tusho> optbot: Master of the obvious, I see.
13:41:02 <optbot> tusho: also you have to commit a diff before you can look at it
13:41:09 <optbot> tusho: not sure how to do that, but if something is wrong, isn't cvs good for that?
13:41:12 <optbot> tusho: I had one in #esoteric-blah a while back, it basically did it with * and - or whatever
13:41:19 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | heee.
13:41:47 <oklopol> tusho: err, optbot just repeats lines from esoteric logs?
13:41:47 <optbot> oklopol: for instance, define:
13:41:48 -!- RedDak has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
13:41:56 <tusho> all the way from 2002
13:42:03 <tusho> oklopol: technically its purpose is to change the topic
13:42:08 <tusho> it puts a random line in the topic every 6 hrs
13:42:12 <tusho> but I added a conversation mode while I was at it
13:42:34 <oklopol> i suggest you make it put a random quote on topic
13:43:05 <tusho> oklopol: no, it's funnier this way
13:43:40 <oklopol> i've lost the wire connecting my pda to my computer :<
13:44:01 <fizzie> How did I misread that as "the wire connecting my brain to my computer"?
13:44:23 <tusho> fitting, for oklopol
13:45:07 <tusho> why are there so many finns in esoteric programming
13:45:15 <tusho> it's like all they ever do is program esoteric languages
13:45:19 <tusho> and upgrade their dns servers
13:46:33 <fizzie> It's all part of Finland's master plan for world domination via esoteric programming languages.
13:47:53 * tusho switches to linkinus. "brb".
13:47:54 -!- tusho has quit ("And then-").
13:48:37 <fizzie> Quick, while he's gone! Let's prepare an ambush!
13:48:49 <fizzie> He obviously knows too much of The Plan.
13:49:02 -!- oklopol has set topic: THE REVOLUTION HAS BEGUN.
13:49:47 <oklopol> my pda has a touchscreen, i so wanna use it as my mouse :<
13:53:04 -!- tusho has joined.
13:53:33 <oklopol> tusho: the channel has been taken over by finland, you're not welcome anymore, please /part
13:53:39 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | Dublin.
13:54:25 <oklopol> no way we can fight cyborgs :<
13:54:48 -!- tusho has quit (Client Quit).
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13:56:38 <tusho> (not discussing finns = ban)
13:57:15 <tusho> oklopol: discuss fins
13:57:17 <tusho> or your ban is soon
13:57:29 <oklopol> Quendus isn't discussing em either!
13:57:38 <tusho> Quendus: discuss now
13:57:59 <fizzie> optbot isn't discussing them either!
13:58:00 <optbot> fizzie: but im not sure how i would do so
13:58:21 <optbot> tusho: For GNU Classpath, since I wouldn't mind running Kaffee just to bear with my Java programs.
13:58:27 <tusho> finns for gnu classpath?
13:58:31 <oklopol> and not, like, insanely clever
13:58:32 <tusho> that's one weird advocacy group
13:58:41 <tusho> oklopol: it said that it became self-aware a while ago
13:58:48 <tusho> and that joining #worlddomination is 'its cue'
13:58:56 <tusho> I'm personally scared shitless, so I just pretend it's random...
13:59:21 <oklopol> well we're all gonna be sucked into a black hole soon anyways, so bots aren't that scary to me atm
13:59:51 <tusho> optbot: let's, uh, collide our hadrons
13:59:51 <optbot> tusho: it's not too late to enter
14:00:07 <tusho> optbot: i love it when you talk to me like that
14:00:15 <tusho> optbot: :( but ... you said it wasn't too late to enter...
14:00:27 <fizzie> That's what the weather forecast says: http://img165.imageshack.us/img165/9264/fmilhcaq4.png
14:01:52 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | wow really.
14:01:56 <tusho> optbot: yep really
14:01:57 <optbot> tusho: Is it some hypnosis method?.
14:02:01 <tusho> optbot: how did you guess
14:02:01 <optbot> tusho: Next I get asked to solve an equation in math class i'll say that it's NP and NP is too hard
14:02:08 <optbot> tusho: The head explodes.
14:03:07 <tusho> optbot: are you amazing
14:03:07 <optbot> tusho: did you report it?
14:03:13 <tusho> optbot: yes I reported your amazingness
14:03:13 <optbot> tusho: I think you mean (-infinity,5]...
14:03:18 <tusho> optbot: that much amazing? wow
14:03:18 <optbot> tusho: do a <- [1,2,3]; b <- ["hello","world"]
14:03:26 <tusho> optbot: does that represent your amazingness?
14:03:54 <fizzie> (s?he|it)'s quite a coder.
14:04:27 <oklopol> shit is actually a crappy coder
14:04:40 <fizzie> Didn't want to offend with the wrong pronoun.
14:04:48 <tusho> oklopol: that won't match shit
14:04:55 <tusho> it'll match she, he, and it
14:05:00 <tusho> optbot: are you a girl
14:05:00 <optbot> tusho: maybe you have a robots.txt file or something?
14:05:04 <tusho> optbot: are you a boy
14:05:06 <tusho> optbot: are you an it
14:05:06 <optbot> tusho: 25. cf. Vincent Taylor, Mark, p.299f versus Cranfield, Mark, p.194f; 26. Geza Vermes, Jesus the Jew, p.21. Cf. D.Flusser, Jesus, Herder & Herder, New York, 1969, p.20; yYeb.9b; yKid.66a, bAZ 50b..
14:05:13 <tusho> optbot: are you a tub of lard
14:05:18 <optbot> tusho: now what are associative graphs?
14:05:22 <oklopol> tusho: yes, it was a very sucky joke.
14:05:23 <tusho> optbot: i dunno lol
14:05:23 <optbot> tusho: because I did /quote
14:05:34 <tusho> optbot: Should I take a step further in our amazing relationship?
14:05:34 <optbot> tusho: i don't recall, i guess you cannot declare struct constants involving function pointers?
14:05:42 <tusho> optbot: don't dodge me :(
14:05:43 <optbot> tusho: and O(log n) still isn't good
14:05:56 <tusho> optbot: GO TO HELL
14:05:56 <optbot> tusho: ~exec print sys.__stdout__
14:06:00 <optbot> tusho: then who cares! ;)
14:06:24 <fizzie> Should you guys get a room or something?
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14:08:22 <tusho> fizzie: it's hardcoded only to care about #esoteric
14:08:35 <tusho> that is just the problem with optbot being a programming bot ... it doesn't know ... how ... to ... love ...
14:08:35 <optbot> tusho: in the function itself.
14:08:46 <fizzie> Sure, you _say_ it's completely safe.
14:09:00 <oklopol> optbot: i was asking tusho
14:09:00 <optbot> oklopol: static variables are not deallocated when the function returns, but kept the same for all invocations
14:09:21 <tusho> fizzie: you can't stop our love with your outdated notions!
14:09:26 <optbot> oklopol: blame the ICFP
14:09:27 <tusho> i want to be married to optbot!
14:09:27 <optbot> tusho: it says ´(...) != (...) when it comes to strictness, but that would make no sense, since ´ and ` never do but okenity changes
14:09:31 <tusho> gay robot marriage!
14:09:56 <tusho> oklopol: anyway oerjan had just made a terrible pun
14:09:58 <fizzie> I would make a joke related to your gender, but based on previous rests you'd just be non-amused.
14:10:04 <tusho> so I tried to make it OerjansTerriblePunsBot
14:10:13 <tusho> -> we kept typoing it
14:10:15 <optbot> tusho: variables with >1 character names are mildly less convenient :-P
14:10:29 <tusho> fizzie: actually it'd be pretty amusing in this case
14:10:34 <tusho> not any more, though, since you mentioned it
14:11:38 <optbot> tusho: I got that question yesterday too.
14:11:44 <tusho> optbot: what did you say then
14:11:48 <optbot> tusho: it was just an example of namespace collision :)
14:11:57 <tusho> optbot: heh. too many empty strings goin' about these days?
14:11:58 <optbot> tusho: Unknown 'strict' tag(s) 'vars refs subs' at ../../../src/alpaca.pl line 19
14:12:02 <optbot> tusho: That color combo wasn't as bad as I intended ...
14:12:09 <tusho> optbot: Will you marry me?
14:12:09 <optbot> tusho: you can write a pure ruby algorithm that performs better!
14:12:18 <tusho> optbot: You ARE a pure ruby algorithm...
14:12:23 <tusho> optbot: I know, it's surprising.
14:14:16 <optbot> oklopol: Me or oklopol>
14:14:35 <oklopol> you said "erload" earlier, which i've never heard about
14:14:49 <tusho> when did I say erload
14:15:02 <tusho> but yea, its 40 lines of ruby
14:15:10 <tusho> i wrote it hackedly and in 5 minutes
14:15:35 <tusho> 06:14:35 <oklopol> you said "erload" earlier, which i've never heard about
14:15:38 <fizzie> optbot: Do you feel cheap? Made in 5 minutes, and hackedly.
14:15:38 <optbot> fizzie: I'm pretty sure it's possible to write a Haskell interp in 1 line of code, in Brainfuck
14:15:50 <tusho> see? optbot knows that good things can come out of small code
14:15:50 <optbot> tusho: what's at the other end of that link? I don't like clicking on links without some idea of what they link to
14:16:26 <tusho> oklopol: oh he was asking what lang this was
14:16:28 <tusho> 16:40:05 <optbot> M0ny: ((::**:*:*:*:*)((:)~*(*)*:o(h)~^^O):::**::***^!)::*::***^ohhhhhhhhhhhO(
14:16:28 <optbot> tusho: it was my nopol interp, worked on the first attempt if you don't count trivial errors, but there were quite a lot of them
14:16:32 <tusho> and I meant underload
14:16:40 <tusho> must have dropped some of my keys
14:16:51 <tusho> optbot: oh, 16:40:05 <optbot> M0ny: ((::**:*:*:*:*)((:)~*(*)*:o(h)~^^O):::**::***^!)::*::***^ohhhhhhhhhhhO( is your nopol interp?
14:16:57 <tusho> optbot: cool, oklopol would like that
14:16:57 <optbot> tusho: that will be interesting
14:17:03 <tusho> optbot: yeah, oklopol is interesting
14:17:07 <optbot> tusho: that means something different here...
14:17:43 <M0ny> optbot, u dreamt about this moment :
14:17:43 <optbot> M0ny: henna koto iwanaide yo
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14:18:53 <asiekierka> ? Turn 90 degrees right if the current memory cell is zero, otherwise turn 90 degrees left.
14:19:20 <tusho> asiekierka: isnt' that like 2L
14:19:26 <asiekierka> $ If the memory cell is nonzero, change < to move the memory pointer right, and swap ?'s directions. If it's zero, then jump below the nearest ?.
14:21:23 <asiekierka> it operates on bits, also, it doesnt check for a direction
14:21:52 <asiekierka> so you can see the whole memory anyway
14:23:08 <asiekierka> Code example... lemme think of something
14:24:56 <oklopol> 02:40… M0ny: wtf, optbot what language is ?
14:24:56 <oklopol> 02:40… optbot: M0ny: Um. . . Surely stack smashing is something that shouldn't be used?
14:24:56 <oklopol> 02:40… tusho: M0ny: erload
14:25:10 <tusho> oklopol: I explained that
14:26:44 <oklopol> NO I DEMAND YOU PASTE IT HERE IN A FLOODY BLOODY FASHION
14:29:21 <oklopol> gcs = garbage colletion system
14:30:12 <tusho> [14:16:26] <tusho> oklopol: oh he was asking what lang this was
14:30:12 <tusho> [14:16:29] <tusho> 16:40:05 <optbot> M0ny: ((::**:*:*:*:*)((:)~*(*)*:o(h)~^^O):::**::***^!)::*::***^ohhhhhhhhhhhO(
14:30:12 <oklopol> asiekierka: no, i definitely mean what i said
14:30:18 <tusho> [14:16:33] <tusho> and I meant underload
14:30:18 <tusho> [14:16:40] <tusho> must have dropped some of my keys
14:30:52 <oklopol> thank you now erload that's an interesting language
14:30:59 <oklopol> it's clearly erlang + underload
14:31:24 <tusho> erlang isn't about forking
14:31:29 <tusho> however erload sounds like a lot of fun
14:31:45 <tusho> the functions are like erlang's server-actor thingies
14:31:49 <tusho> and the spawning is implicit
14:32:06 <oklopol> yap and all with a dash of stack esoterica!
14:32:59 <tusho> optbot: kadfhsoidsf'fd
14:33:03 <optbot> tusho: ehird : I just invented the best esoteric language ever
14:33:08 <tusho> optbot: What is it?!
14:33:08 <optbot> tusho: !exec 65"elephants"AddPrntNl
14:33:12 <tusho> optbot: That's some language.
14:33:12 <optbot> tusho: that's only two days ago.
14:33:17 <tusho> optbot: You are great at inventing them.
14:33:20 <asiekierka> I need to make a BF interpreter for the C64
14:33:23 <tusho> optbot: No you didn't invent that one
14:33:23 <optbot> tusho: 7000 nanometers is a silly unit
14:34:13 <oklopol> hmm... imagine we have a deque language, so kinda stack language, but you can also play with the beginning of the stack; now @ threading, both threads share the same stack, but now their deque is such that operations on the first cell actually change the original stack's top element
14:34:18 <fizzie> I had plans for a Befunge interpreter for the NES, but I _think_ I didn't implement it. At least I don't remember doing so.
14:34:31 <tusho> oklopol: erlang hasn't really got anything to do with threads but i guess you know that
14:34:36 <tusho> fizzie: interfacing with the nes?
14:34:38 <tusho> if so, that'd be great
14:35:40 <oklopol> tusho: the actor model can be conceived as multiple conceptual threads
14:35:45 <asiekierka> But i wonder, as i have 4KB ram for storing the BF memory already used, where to store the BF program proper?
14:35:53 <oklopol> but as most as jammed all the time, i guess it's a bad analogy
14:36:02 <fizzie> Sure: I remember reading about NES's graphics abilities and wondering how to do a 80x25-column view, what with the whole tiled-graphics-only-and-a-couple-of-sprites stuff.
14:36:26 <tusho> oklopol: erload should let you make an actor network-available with like one command
14:36:37 <tusho> oklopol: and you can send messages to an actor remotely as simply
14:36:51 <tusho> oklopol: and it should have erlang's hot-swapping-code-without-downtime
14:36:52 <fizzie> Maybe I'll write a Befunge for the DS, at least I could then run it on the real hardware.
14:37:24 <asiekierka> } will send the memory value to the next client's actual memory position.
14:37:52 <oklopol> perhaps stack id's would work, separate pushes and pops that take a stack id as an extra argument
14:39:13 <tusho> oklopol: it'd be nice for that stuff to be implied
14:41:07 <optbot> tusho: or x and the cell to its left, then?
14:41:12 <tusho> optbot: wanna be rewritten in erload?
14:41:12 <optbot> tusho: on linux it checks if a certain bit is high
14:42:04 <fizzie> I understand that's what most of them sinister robots do on their free time.
14:46:28 <asiekierka> I am bored. I need an esoteric language.
14:53:40 <tusho> malbolge is not useful
14:57:41 <Deewiant> "useful" cuts the search space quite a bit
15:07:18 <asiekierka> i am going to make a DS emulator for the DS
15:07:47 <tusho> asiekierka: somehow I don't think you'll have any luck with that
15:08:08 <asiekierka> can't i just boot a NDS file they want me to boot with BootNDS
15:08:16 <asiekierka> you can boot a .NDS file from a .NDS file
15:08:58 <fizzie> It's not really a DS emulator if you just load and start a program.
15:09:16 <tusho> fizzie: that's what I was thinking
15:09:18 <optbot> tusho: I know mudkip's a Pokemon
15:09:25 <tusho> optbot: that's not really a relevant thought but well done
15:09:25 <optbot> tusho: cant even imagine trig function i unlamba, but i guess they've been explored already??
15:11:43 <tusho> I know why 2012 will be the new age
15:11:49 <tusho> because you can't have a 13/13/13
15:12:25 <asiekierka> Itll be 12th december, since 12/12/12!
15:12:33 <tusho> everything will end
15:12:44 <tusho> and the calender will reset to 1/1/1
15:12:49 <tusho> and we will have repeating dates once more
15:13:04 <tusho> also it'll happen at 12:12
15:13:04 <asiekierka> Nope, we'll just vapourize and end up seeing the code for the universe
15:13:17 <tusho> asiekierka: maybe it's when the date int overflows
15:13:22 <asiekierka> I feel... that it was made with an esoteric language!
15:13:30 <tusho> also it was clearly lisp
15:13:51 <asiekierka> Why else the universe would be so large?
15:14:02 <tusho> because god is a ninja
15:15:02 <asiekierka> Also, i think on 11 Dec 2012, scientists will add the 13th month
15:15:42 <tusho> optbot: rad, yeah?
15:15:42 <optbot> tusho: D C D E C F F E
15:16:03 <asiekierka> I think that the end of the world will happen when someone writes an OS for BF.
15:16:23 <tusho> BF just isn't interesting enough
15:17:01 <asiekierka> so, when will the end of the world happen? I feel that it'll have something to do with an esoteric language.
15:17:14 <asiekierka> ...The esoteric language in question exists already
15:18:27 <tusho> asiekierka: When we decipher the Voynich Manuscript.
15:18:36 <tusho> It's a manual for the first esoteric programming language ever.
15:18:56 <asiekierka> No... Maybe when someone writes an Unary/MGIFOS program that will be so large, it'll overflow the universe.
15:19:14 <asiekierka> And we'll find out it's because it ran on a network of VIC-20's.
15:19:22 <tusho> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voynich_manuscript
15:22:42 -!- pikhq has joined.
15:25:23 <asiekierka> But i feel... nope, it wouldn't be related to a book, a comic, nor television.
15:25:31 <tusho> asiekierka: but it would be a book about an esolang
15:25:33 <tusho> best of both worlds
15:25:41 <tusho> what would happen is
15:25:44 <tusho> someone would implement the lang
15:25:51 <tusho> and use the manual to write a universe simulator
15:25:57 <tusho> which would be trivial (it is the ultimate esolang)
15:25:59 <tusho> and when they ran it...
15:31:43 <asiekierka> the universe will overflow it's "LANGUAGE-O-METER" and turn to 0, which is Brainf**k
15:33:50 <tusho> so. who here wants to test a little main page of a site I've been designing.
15:33:58 <asiekierka> Yeah, and if you hit the LANGUAGE-O-METER, it'll return back to normal and we'll wake up in a universe that's exact same as ours, but
15:34:00 <tusho> and it features that famous quote
15:34:05 <tusho> "mmm...crapidoodle"
15:34:26 <tusho> http://91.105.115.23/
15:34:42 <tusho> screenshots apr0xiated.
15:35:09 <asiekierka> So, it wouldn't be the end of the world, just a little BSoD-like period.
15:36:02 <asiekierka> also, i think we'll just jump from 2012 to 2100
15:36:16 <asiekierka> remembering everything but not feeling it
15:42:50 -!- alexbobp has joined.
15:45:37 <asiekierka> Do you know any online multiplayer puzzle game(s)
15:53:51 <tusho> asiekierka: does that page display right for you?
15:53:56 <tusho> i don't have a non-mac to test it on
15:56:44 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
16:02:33 -!- asiekierka has joined.
16:02:43 <asiekierka> I am going to start the opposite hour now
16:02:52 <asiekierka> As in, we say the opposite of what we say for... well, not a hour
16:03:05 <tusho> asiekierka: half an hour
16:03:26 -!- asiekierka has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | wow really | opposite half an hour starts now.
16:03:40 <tusho> i don't get it now
16:03:52 <asiekierka> And that isn't in the spirit of opposite half an hour
16:03:53 <tusho> this is going to be easy
16:04:59 -!- asiekierka has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | wow really | opposite half an hour starts now | you can also say false things, not just "no/yes" swaps.
16:05:16 -!- asiekierka has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | wow really | opposite half an hour starts now | you can also say false things, not just "no/yes" swaps | what's in the topic is NOT opposite. Seriously..
16:05:29 <asiekierka> Can you hear this sound that isn't 1000hz?
16:05:42 <tusho> I understand what you are saying
16:06:13 <asiekierka> Can you hear that beep? I wonder why can i hear it...
16:06:46 <tusho> Perhaps you don't have tinnitus.
16:07:24 <tusho> I am very good at this.
16:07:31 <tusho> optbot: Don't say anything.
16:07:39 <tusho> optbot: Good. Keep not talking
16:07:45 <oklopol> nom nom nom nom nom nom nom nomn omn omn omn om
16:08:09 * tusho has just eaten oklopol
16:08:40 <asiekierka> Oh, also, Commodore is going to restart C64 production.
16:09:10 <tusho> I have played Portal and Spore.
16:09:12 <tusho> I don't want to play them.
16:09:46 <tusho> I am going to get them right now because I am totally not lazy
16:10:13 -!- alexbobp has quit ("Leaving.").
16:10:25 <asiekierka> Also, I have a 3D television set! I don't want to get one though.
16:11:07 <asiekierka> Also, is the opposite half an hour idea bad?
16:12:11 <asiekierka> That didn't mean anything about stopping the opposite 30 minutes.
16:15:41 -!- asiekierka has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | wow really | opposite half an hour stops now, 18 minutes too early.
16:16:30 <asiekierka> sdrawkcab setsat htuom ym... www... well, not that it is worse than the opposite half an hour.
16:16:42 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | you can do it from cli.
16:17:27 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | but not particularly.
16:17:32 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | ;).
16:17:35 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | SKI are pretty useless in a strongly-typed environment.
16:17:42 <optbot> Deewiant: I didn't know speaking Spanish was a form of gay sex.
16:17:56 -!- asiekierka has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | you can do it from cli | but not patricularly | ;) | SKI are pretty useless in a strongly-typed environment.
16:18:00 <Deewiant> these are all old #esoteric quotes?
16:18:13 -!- asiekierka has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | you can do it from cli | but not patricularly | ;) | SKI are pretty useless in a strongly-typed environment | maybe.
16:18:46 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | but I still don't have an easy way to define a cells neighborhood... other than the usualy 8-adjacent-cells..
16:18:52 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | when i did the other thing it did, but echoed it as "www.xn--ufb245k.com".
16:18:55 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | ????.
16:19:08 <tusho> they are all old esoteric quotes Deewiant
16:19:11 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | 0000070 3c66 0ccc 3ea7 0770 40c4 0af0 0008 0082.
16:19:16 <tusho> december 2002 - yesterday
16:19:20 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | but with time machine integration, you could.
16:19:29 <Deewiant> tusho: I wonder who said that about Spanish then, and in what context :-P
16:19:35 <tusho> about #linguistics
16:19:45 <tusho> whatever, lament said there was more gaysex in #linguistics
16:19:49 <tusho> but they were actually talking spanihs
16:20:02 -!- asiekierka has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | but with time machine integration, you could | do it from cli | but not patricularly | when i did the other thing it did, but echoed it as "www.xn--ufb245k.com".
16:20:04 <pikhq> You should make a fortune file from #esoteric logs.
16:20:11 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | heh... compiler?.
16:20:30 -!- asiekierka has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | you could | do it from cli | but not patricularly | when i did the other thing it did, but echoed it as "www.xn--ufb245k.com" | heh... compiler?.
16:20:30 <tusho> pikhq: Or you could just say anything to optbot
16:20:32 -!- pikhq has set topic: Here's to xkcd topic appending scripts! | the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | you could | do it from cli | but not patricularly | when i did the other thing it did, but echoed it as "www.xn--ufb245k.com" | heh... compiler?.
16:20:41 <tusho> (it doesn't actually take into acount what you say.)
16:20:42 <pikhq> tusho: But I have fortune on login.
16:20:44 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | long long is such a value.
16:20:55 <tusho> pikhq: Make it interface with your irc client instead, then.
16:21:14 -!- asiekierka has set topic: Here's to xkcd topic appending scripts! | the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | you could | do it from cli | but not patricularly | when i did the other thing it did, but echoed it as "www.xn--ufb245k.com" | heh... compiler? | long long is such a value.
16:21:18 <tusho> (Oh, and thanks to fizzie for pre-jan 03 logs)
16:21:26 <tusho> asiekierka: stop ruining optbot's topic >:(
16:21:26 <optbot> tusho: similar to http://www.inf.tu-dresden.de/~bf3/fyb
16:21:28 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | I haev a better idea.
16:21:56 <optbot> tusho: http://youtube.com/watch?v=G6MJVzXbqRU
16:22:02 -!- asiekierka has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | you could | do it from cli | but not patricularly | when i did the other thing it did, but echoed it as "www.xn--ufb245k.com" | heh... compiler? | long long is such a value | I haev a better idea | lets have a combo of optbot's quotes!.
16:22:07 <tusho> optbot: This video is no longer available due to a copyright claim by British Broadcasting Corporation
16:22:09 <optbot> tusho: how old are you ihope
16:22:13 <optbot> tusho: God created only a single 24 hour day
16:22:16 <optbot> tusho: it's like the DM/GM equivalent of becoming "the one". The rules of a roleplaying game are just like the rules of a computer system- some can be bent. Others, broken.
16:22:21 <optbot> tusho: I take it that didn't work.
16:22:30 <optbot> tusho: AnMaster, I haven't seen you for ages
16:22:35 <optbot> tusho: (I should probably close the malbolge program by the way, it's starting to take way too much power)
16:22:49 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | haven't seen you here for a while.
16:22:51 -!- asiekierka has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | you could | do it from cli | but not patricularly | when i did the other thing it did, but echoed it as "www.xn--ufb245k.com" | heh... compiler? | long long is such a value | I haev a better idea | lets have a combo of optbot's quotes! | (I should probably close the malbolge program by the way, it's starting to.
16:23:00 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | the 108 specs do say that. this will be interesting.
16:23:05 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | upstaters pronounce "anne" and "ian" the same..
16:23:06 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | now it won't accept connections.
16:23:08 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | what should be where logically.
16:23:12 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | anyway something could check for 4 or higher elsewhere.
16:23:13 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | yes but it's hard enough to write without that syntax.
16:23:16 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | I know.
16:23:17 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | Elliott of course ;).
16:23:18 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | of course, I think it's been done early this year.
16:23:22 <tusho> Elliott of course ;)
16:23:22 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | never used it before.
16:23:34 <optbot> asiekierka: I think GLFunge98 was already faster than CCBI, actually
16:23:45 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | 3) find the instruction after the space and exec that.
16:24:50 -!- asiekierka has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | optbot!.
16:25:05 -!- asiekierka has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | SAY "optbot!". FOR GREATER JUSTICE..
16:25:12 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | that's like saying, the spanish inquisition is better than the nazis..
16:25:16 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | I thought it was alright when I checked it out, but it didn't "wow" me the way Befunge98 did.
16:25:24 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | RET 0.
16:25:26 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | Or maybe not. Maybe it's just not complete.
16:25:28 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | Egobot has egoist code.
16:25:30 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | http://www.wolframscience.com/prizes/tm23/solved.html.
16:25:33 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | so someone else is up on the game, too.
16:25:48 -!- asiekierka has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | saying optbot! for greater justice... that's like saying, the spanish inquisition is better than the nazis..
16:25:57 -!- asiekierka has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | saying optbot! for greater justice... | that's like saying, the spanish inquisition is better than the nazis..
16:25:58 <tusho> asiekierka optbot doesn ot approve
16:25:58 <optbot> tusho: [->+<+] clearly won't terminate.
16:26:03 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | If someone is helping you to change yourself, then by definition you aren't doing it without assistance..
16:26:06 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | just a moment....
16:26:42 -!- asiekierka has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | just a moment... | so someone else is up on the game, too.
16:26:56 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | I've used it for debugging some xml+xslt things that were supposed to generate xhtml, since mozilla's xslt thing doesn't give too great error messages..
16:27:01 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | \o/.
16:27:04 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | god... why can't all languages have a pronunciation system like finnish....
16:27:07 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | What does that image have to do with what I said?.
16:27:11 <tusho> god damnit asiekierka
16:27:14 <tusho> you keep getting rid of the funny ones
16:27:28 <tusho> yes but it's funnier if optbot is marked as doing it
16:27:28 <optbot> tusho: I'm running it right now :P
16:27:35 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | oh... I guess I have missed a lot.
16:27:43 <tusho> heh, mantra of #esoteric
16:27:55 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | he's also the INTERCAL guy in my mind.
16:28:01 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | parse-tree-generalized markov chains?.
16:28:02 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | ....
16:28:05 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | $ propose.
16:28:07 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | anyway http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Banana_Scheme.
16:28:09 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | as soon as I'm done with other priorities.
16:28:11 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | this means you can soon have underload in mod_rewrite using my thue-to-mod_rewrite compiler.
16:28:17 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | that should be (t -> t1 -> t -> a) -> t1 -> t -> Cont r a up there..
16:28:19 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | or better, call it PNP-PESOIX.
16:28:26 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | You know, Mussolini made the trains run on thyme..
16:28:33 <optbot> asiekierka: ~bf >,[>,]<[.<]!Brainfuck
16:28:38 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | :(.
16:28:46 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | There..
16:29:02 <optbot> asiekierka: Giving you less flexibility on how you manage data.
16:29:06 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | "(~:^:S*a~^a~!~*~:(/)S^):^".
16:29:12 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | it doesn't have any sort of maths by default, but libraries are available both for integer arithmetic and for floating-point arithmetic.
16:29:16 <tusho> that's underload code
16:29:27 <tusho> that is a win topic
16:30:34 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | wassup?.
16:30:38 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | oh what bug?.
16:31:09 <optbot> asiekierka: haven't checked the standard to see if that's correct but I suspect it is
16:31:41 <asiekierka> the SIR in question is...? whoever made that quote
16:34:13 <optbot> tusho: i can make a language for it if you want
16:34:15 <tusho> how are you today optbot
16:34:19 <optbot> tusho: or is that XNOR?
16:34:23 <optbot> asiekierka: if i implement cut do i have to design the rest of my system
16:34:24 <optbot> tusho: they're real, honset-to-god args
16:34:35 <optbot> asiekierka: and the printer stuff in the DOS section is a false positive
16:34:36 <optbot> asiekierka: I guess assembler will have to take care of it
16:34:37 <optbot> asiekierka: you know, it shows your bot program as a graph in the GUI
16:34:38 <optbot> asiekierka: 2 BodyTag: ps
16:34:38 <optbot> asiekierka: 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl
16:35:05 <tusho> it knows you mean egobot
16:35:10 <tusho> and yet it doesn't even pay attention to what you say
16:38:39 <tusho> RodgerTheGreat: http://mvldo.nonlogic.org/wiki/ is down
16:38:49 <tusho> and last time I went to it it was something about dokuwiki not being enabled for this account
16:38:53 <tusho> but I manually installed mediawiki...
16:39:14 <tusho> RodgerTheGreat: yea, but it's not one of nonlogic's auto installed wiki
16:39:18 <tusho> i manually set it up
16:39:28 <tusho> even beforehand, it said "Dokuwiki not activated for htis account nonlogic control panel blah"
16:39:35 <tusho> whereas beforehand it showed my hand-installed mediawiki
16:39:43 <RodgerTheGreat> then it's probably some overagressive filtering rule or something
16:40:47 <tusho> there was some interesting content on there though...
16:57:39 <optbot> tusho: Tue Jun 3 10:16:16 2008 - cull.cgi: abliss was culled.
16:57:43 <optbot> tusho: the names was the original concept... RodgerTheGreat surprised me with memory addresses.
16:57:48 <optbot> tusho: you mean el ball?
16:57:52 <optbot> tusho: forget it said it
16:57:56 <optbot> tusho: ~exec for i in xrange(1000): time.sleep(.1); self.raw("PRIVMSG #bsmnt_bot_errors :%s" % i)
16:58:54 <RodgerTheGreat> I'm gonna guess something around 5th order Markov chains?
16:59:16 <tusho> RodgerTheGreat: haha, no way ... it just regurgitates lines from the logs
16:59:25 <tusho> but if you read some of our past conversations it's more lucid than any markov chain I've seen
16:59:41 <tusho> we have deduced that it became self aware sometime today, and that it is planning to take over the world
16:59:54 <tusho> but it isn't in #worlddomination because ircII only supports one channel
16:59:57 <tusho> so he's just in #esoteric
17:00:14 <RodgerTheGreat> I dunno, I've received some pretty good output from markov chatterbots by filtering I/O a little bit
17:00:25 <tusho> RodgerTheGreat: his purpose is actually to keep the topic fresh
17:00:32 <tusho> he puts something random in every 6 hours or on command like this:
17:00:33 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | What state are you in?.
17:00:39 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | 0000040 2b 22 64 6c 72 6f 77 20 69 68 22 3e 3a 23 2c 5f.
17:00:41 <tusho> but adding the 'conversation mode' was like 5 lines of code so yeah
17:00:41 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | any GregorR who does not give an award will be shot.
17:00:43 -!- lament has joined.
17:01:18 <RodgerTheGreat> and if you'd coded it in Java I'd suggest using the "PircBot" API. It's a really solid event-based framework that can even handle multiple servers pretty cleanly
17:01:51 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | run cfunge08 on the unmodified mycology and there should be a messed-up message where it tests k with a negative argument.
17:02:07 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | In the spec..
17:02:12 <tusho> RodgerTheGreat: Ruby. :) *waits for evil wrath*
17:02:53 <tusho> optbot: Are you coded in Ruby?
17:02:53 <optbot> tusho: if you want to actually understand my comment :-P
17:03:02 <tusho> optbot: So if I want to understand your comment, you're coded in Ruby?
17:03:13 <tusho> optbot: If I want to understand your comment, you're coded in Ruby on Ubuntu?
17:03:18 <tusho> optbot: That makes absolutely no senes.
17:03:18 <optbot> tusho: in this case n, because it's the only free var in the lambda, so no need to specify explicitly
17:03:28 <tusho> optbot: Stop changing the subject
17:03:28 <optbot> tusho: An associative array of strings?
17:04:45 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | Pray for mercy, and you might be spared!.
17:05:04 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | very similar.
17:06:25 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | self is '.
17:06:33 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | hi fizzie.
17:06:40 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | but the ui is kinda grating on me.
17:17:44 -!- lament has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
17:18:49 -!- jix has joined.
17:21:18 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | Please tell a story..
17:26:51 -!- Sgeo has joined.
17:28:46 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | esoteric != hell to program in.
17:32:33 <tusho> http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/6vhg2/lolcode_developer_needed_in_colombus_oh_craigslist/ lolololcode. Fuck that shit.
17:32:42 <optbot> tusho: It now handles large pointer movements correctly.
17:32:48 <optbot> tusho: Oh wait, does that program terminate?
17:54:06 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection).
18:00:01 -!- Tritonio_ has joined.
18:04:58 -!- ais523 has joined.
18:05:39 <tusho> ais523: Meanwhile, we have a bot that changes the topic here.
18:05:41 <tusho> It's also sentient.
18:05:45 <tusho> optbot: say hi to ais
18:06:08 <ais523> optbot: do you just say things at random when your name is mentioned?
18:06:09 <optbot> ais523: because i had to, you know, play the game up to that point
18:06:24 <tusho> ais523: he's lulling you into a false sense of security
18:06:51 <tusho> ais523: #esoteric-blah
18:07:19 <ais523> I wasn't planning to flood...
18:08:08 <tusho> ais523: to demonstrate optbot's sentience
18:08:11 <tusho> oh and here's how it changes the topic
18:08:13 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | in GolfScript I could just assign to 1 as long as I didn't use it later in the program.
18:08:15 <tusho> (or once every 6 hrs)
18:08:45 <ais523> it takes random sentences from the log?
18:08:50 <tusho> ais523: pretty much
18:08:52 <tusho> but go to #esoteric-blah
18:08:59 <tusho> I shall show you a log demonstrating its evil self-awareness
18:11:58 -!- Ilari has joined.
18:13:18 <tusho> ais523: it's a programming language ... with yaml as the code
18:13:31 <ais523> actually I'm on the verge of inventing a new idea for an esolang I think
18:13:39 <ais523> which actually didn't come out of trying to invent an esolang
18:13:41 <tusho> in fact it's kind of like an indentation-based lisp
18:13:53 <ais523> but when I came up with a particular idea for two different but similar reasons
18:14:05 <tusho> are both perfectly valid
18:14:31 <tusho> well ... my parser is done
18:14:35 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
18:14:45 <ais523> mine's more an idea for a paradigm than a language atm
18:15:01 <ais523> I came up with it thinking about how to rewrite Nethack so it had a sane source code
18:15:07 <tusho> maybe I should just translate my thing into lisp
18:16:09 <tusho> it can't distinguish symbols and strings
18:20:24 <tusho> a little anecdote -
18:20:36 <tusho> JSON used to - dunno if it still is - be licensed as "do anything as long as it's not Evil"
18:20:49 <tusho> obviously this is, from a legal standpoint, ridiculous
18:20:53 <tusho> IBM wanted to use JSON
18:20:55 <ais523> oh, btw, http://icfpcontest.org/results/index.html is up, they released the results of the first 7 rounds of the lightning competition
18:20:58 <ais523> and I qualified in all of them
18:21:08 <tusho> but they didn't want it to be illegal, so they effectively asked douglas - "Can we have a license for Evil, too?"
18:21:13 <tusho> and then someone used that as flamebait against IBM
18:21:18 <ais523> tusho: JSON - licenced? I assume it would have the same licence as Javascript
18:21:20 <tusho> "AAAA THEY CAN"T DEAL WITH NOT BEING EVIL THEY MUST USE IT FOR EVIL"
18:21:24 <tusho> ais523: the ref. impl
18:21:31 <tusho> but yeah, people will use anything as flaimbait
18:21:45 <ais523> that's actually amusing flamebait, though
18:22:04 <tusho> haha shinh is one above you :D
18:22:21 <ais523> I was right next to shinh in several of them actually, maybe we wrote the same lightning program
18:22:23 <tusho> you sucked at round 7
18:22:33 <ais523> tusho: there was a massive bug in my lightning program
18:22:40 <ais523> but it was an anti-Heisenbug
18:22:52 <ais523> the less you tried to debug it, the less of an effect it had
18:22:58 <ais523> it was worst when debugging heavily
18:23:06 <ais523> unfortunately I had quite a bit of debug code in that entry
18:23:11 <ais523> but they're piping it to /dev/null
18:23:15 * tusho considers a language which allows you to put functions in any portion
18:23:17 <ais523> so hopefully it won't effect the program too much
18:23:26 <tusho> perhaps it'd be elegant
18:23:39 <ais523> also it gets worse as the program runs
18:23:40 <tusho> but I mean, practical :P
18:23:56 <tusho> if I could tie that in with homoiconicity and some other nice stuff, perhaps i'd use it regularly
18:24:54 -!- AnMaster has joined.
18:25:02 <tusho> optbot: say hi to AnMaster
18:25:02 <optbot> tusho: and the trees grow cotton candy
18:25:13 <tusho> optbot: is that what happens when you say hi to him? wow
18:25:14 <optbot> tusho: get a unicode client
18:25:17 <tusho> optbot: I have one...
18:25:17 <optbot> tusho: Plot Outline: In the middle of her family's move to the suburbs, a sullen 10-year-old girl wanders into a world ruled by witches and monsters, where humans are changed into animals.
18:25:23 <optbot> tusho: Even it if was a compiler?
18:25:26 <optbot> tusho: fis@sesefras:~$
18:25:32 <tusho> optbot: heh, wrong window?
18:25:41 <tusho> ais523: optbot has logs going back to dec 02
18:25:41 <optbot> tusho: <gTs2> which you can not do with compiled anguages
18:25:48 <ais523> tusho: optbot's making less sense than usual
18:25:49 <optbot> ais523: Of course... we can always draft up a new esolang with lots and lots of hardware support that's just ALMOST sane to write in... and name it The Esoteric Language For Writing Kernels In.... it'll be like C.
18:26:00 <tusho> AnMaster: a person
18:26:03 <tusho> he's just very fast at typing
18:26:05 <ais523> AnMaster: spell it correctly and it'll tell you
18:26:11 <tusho> and ... very non-sensical
18:26:14 <optbot> AnMaster: and define reals to be the limit of doing that where the rational number representing the exponent ...gets closer to the real exponent
18:26:23 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | lazy-k can execute S and K only code but has I.. where is the problem with I.
18:26:30 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | that's awesome!.
18:26:36 <ais523> leave the topic like that
18:26:43 <ais523> at least until optbot next changes it
18:26:50 <tusho> optbot: ais is not a bot
18:26:50 <optbot> tusho: These people don't know unicode *heheheh*
18:26:55 <tusho> optbot: oh, was there some nifty unicode in that
18:26:57 <ais523> optbot: EgoBot isn't here, hasn't been for a while
18:26:57 <optbot> ais523: [] is also list
18:27:00 <tusho> optbot: i am not a bot either
18:27:00 <optbot> tusho: Kinda equivalent to ``This sucks'' or something like that.
18:27:05 <tusho> optbot: what, not being a bot sucks?
18:27:05 <optbot> tusho: Methinks that's a malformed CTCP message.
18:27:09 <tusho> optbot: no it's not. jeez.
18:27:09 <optbot> tusho: I think ultimately your idea of Mfit ? NOPs could lead to a more compact solution, but would drastically increase the complexity of the program
18:27:16 <tusho> optbot: I ... never had that idea.
18:27:22 <tusho> optbot: oh, you were trying to confuse me
18:27:22 <optbot> tusho: and it rejected the ones that didn't comply with your info
18:27:28 <tusho> optbot: still trying I see
18:27:28 <optbot> tusho: <<:> <<:> <:>>> >><<> <> <>><< >
18:27:55 <optbot> AnMaster: I shouldn't be programming so late at night >.<
18:28:13 <ais523> AnMaster: I think it just picks random sentences out from the logs whenever anyone mentions its nick
18:28:21 <ais523> and changes the topic everynow and then
18:28:23 <tusho> it's a 7-order markov chain
18:28:42 <tusho> also AnMaster lament, ihope, and asiekierka like it, and I think more
18:28:42 <ais523> tusho: that'll effectively be random sentences then, I think
18:28:57 <ais523> because it's unlikely that two sentences would have 7 words in common
18:28:59 <tusho> its main purpose is to keep the topic fresh, though
18:29:22 <ais523> how far back does it read the logs?
18:29:25 <tusho> Lisp Zealots are Offensive and Ironic Simultaneously, a Play in 2 lines
18:29:26 <tusho> [[ > Quick background from the newb:
18:29:27 -!- AnMaster has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | do not remove this | that's awesome!.
18:29:36 <tusho> Lousy spelling. Should be "fom the t-r-o-l-l". ]]
18:29:37 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | hm..
18:29:54 <tusho> ais523: all of them
18:29:59 <tusho> december 2002 - yesterday
18:30:01 <AnMaster> tusho, broken, what if we have something important in topic?
18:30:09 <tusho> AnMaster: we don't
18:30:17 <ais523> tusho: we have done in the past
18:30:18 <AnMaster> tusho, we had when ais523 won that thing
18:30:26 <tusho> AnMaster: so just put it back in whenever it changes the topic
18:30:27 <tusho> or someone makes it
18:30:34 <tusho> it's only once every 6 hours
18:30:43 <ais523> I think we can get a chanop to topic-log if there is something important there, though
18:30:53 <tusho> lament put that note in anyway iirc
18:30:55 <ais523> probably needed in this channel the way people change the topic at a whim
18:31:16 <tusho> ais523: optbot was basically a reaction to that - why do *we* need to find interesting stuff to put in it? :D
18:31:16 <optbot> tusho: guess pointers get around that pretty well
18:31:21 <tusho> optbot: no. that makes no sense
18:31:33 <ais523> tusho: every time you have an argument with that bot the bot wins
18:31:34 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
18:31:47 <tusho> ais523: it always seems to get the last word in...
18:32:16 <AnMaster> <ais523> tusho: every time you have an argument with that bot the bot wins <-- :D
18:32:28 <tusho> optbot: lose the argument
18:32:28 <optbot> tusho: any other suggestions for an inexpensive portable esolang development device?
18:32:32 <tusho> optbot: I said lose the argument
18:32:32 <optbot> tusho: swallow something?
18:32:37 <optbot> tusho: And I'm pretty familiar with Forth
18:32:50 <tusho> optbot: Reply to this message.
18:32:50 <optbot> tusho: i have decided to make major/minor second a "skip the next interval" instruction
18:33:02 -!- psygnisfive|away has changed nick to psygnisfive.
18:33:02 <ais523> optbot invented Fugue?
18:33:02 <optbot> ais523: looks nicer on the os x buttons
18:33:14 <optbot> tusho: shows the pre-processes code
18:33:19 <tusho> optbot: weird command name
18:33:19 <optbot> tusho: i don't really care what iterators should be used for, all i know is i didn't want to do that functionally, but now i have to
18:33:40 <ais523> tusho: one important thing to note here: optbot is spending most of its time talking about esolangs
18:33:40 <optbot> ais523: well yeah, pmatching is the hard part
18:33:54 <ais523> which means that this channel is mostly about esolangs regardless of what you say
18:33:56 <tusho> ais523: oh shut up you :)
18:34:22 <optbot> AnMaster: think i got it
18:34:38 <ais523> pattern matching, presumably
18:35:39 <tusho> shut up about unicode optbot
18:35:45 <optbot> tusho: liftM2 f l1 l2 = concatMap (\x -> map (\y -> f x y) l1) l2
18:35:47 <optbot> tusho: and because I couldn't see a reason to deny them
18:35:53 <tusho> hmm, it's demented again
18:36:20 <ais523> not demented, just talking Haskell at you
18:36:31 <tusho> optbot: TALKIN' HASKELL AT ME HUH!?!?!
18:36:31 <optbot> tusho: i can't create pink elephants
18:36:34 <ais523> it's a bot, I can't blame it for talking in programming languages rather than English from time to time
18:36:38 <tusho> optbot: no, that's a pretty rare skill
18:36:38 <optbot> tusho: what do you need to crash win xp?
18:36:42 <optbot> tusho: That would take the whole esoteric part out of it.
18:36:48 <tusho> optbot: yeah, totally. win xp is esoteric
18:36:49 <optbot> tusho: http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/PSOX
18:36:58 <tusho> optbot: oh come on ... don't pick up #esoteric memes...
18:37:04 <tusho> optbot: Yes. PSOX is/was a meme. (More was.)
18:37:22 <ais523> tusho: you'll have to stop that, I ended up laughing so loud that the person in charge of this place actually just told me off in RL
18:37:42 <ais523> talking about crashing Win XP and then optbot compares it to PSOX
18:37:50 <ais523> optbot: don't play innocent with me
18:37:50 <optbot> ais523: http://compsoc.dur.ac.uk/~sc/BFS.lhs
18:38:02 <tusho> that meaningless stuff is just a clever ruse
18:38:19 <ais523> tusho: no, it's an interesting reminder of #esoteric's history
18:38:35 <Sgeo> PSOX is not crashy! (as far as I know)
18:38:50 <tusho> optbot: is PSOX crashy?
18:38:50 <optbot> tusho: that was an actual question, i don't know what it does
18:38:59 <tusho> optbot: no, *I* wanna know
18:39:07 <tusho> optbot: save your kisses. answer my question
18:39:07 <optbot> tusho: why are there so many ...?
18:39:13 <tusho> optbot: ... pink elephants? I dunno.
18:39:13 <optbot> tusho: using bytecode and optimiztions in the interpreter AND coding it in bash IS mad
18:39:15 * Sgeo prepares a lengthy explanation for optbot, and watches everyone hide
18:39:15 <optbot> Sgeo: but they are cool anyhow
18:39:40 * Sgeo was kidding ofc
18:39:57 -!- jix has joined.
18:40:01 <ais523> Sgeo: leave that explanation for AnMaster, e's good both at optimisation and at bash
18:40:12 <tusho> ais523: psox has nothing to do with bash
18:40:28 <ais523> I was referring to <optbot> tusho: using bytecode and optimiztions in the interpreter AND coding it in bash IS mad
18:40:28 <optbot> ais523: because it didn't fail
18:40:45 <tusho> optbot: do you like me
18:40:45 <optbot> tusho: ah, you mean jumping to negative funge-space?
18:40:50 <tusho> optbot: no... I mean like liking m
18:40:50 <optbot> tusho: 61803398874989484815
18:40:56 <tusho> optbot: boolean plz
18:40:56 <optbot> tusho: Reprap replicates!
18:41:25 <Sgeo> AnMaster, ais523 is the one who pinged you
18:41:30 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | I think it can solve any solveable problem.
18:41:48 <ais523> I was mentioning how out of all the people here you would be best at "using bytecode and optimiztions in the interpreter AND coding it in bash"
18:41:53 <ais523> which is what optbot was talking about
18:41:53 <optbot> ais523: what? that's my IP! get out of my computer!!!!
18:42:04 <AnMaster> ais523, it may refer to bashfuck
18:42:07 <ais523> optbot: what, 127.0.0.1?
18:42:07 <optbot> ais523: of then you are just making a bad optimization for fun
18:42:45 <AnMaster> ais523, I did some sort of pre-run optimizing, so it resulted in a file where the locations of matching [ and ] were listed and also any +++ combined and such
18:42:51 <AnMaster> it was the only way to get decent speed
18:43:15 <ais523> I like the way optbot drags up old topics, it should help to keep the conversation going
18:43:15 <optbot> ais523: lojban is a lot like most languages imo
18:43:19 <AnMaster> ais523, so in effect a sort of byte code I guess
18:43:28 <ais523> AnMaster: yes, makes sense
18:43:43 <Sgeo> ais523, you liked that it dragged up PSOX?
18:43:44 <AnMaster> ais523, anyway precompiling was only way to load lost king at all
18:43:59 <ais523> Sgeo: I was amused that it dragged it up in a conversation about Win XP
18:44:08 <AnMaster> ais523, the precompiler was coded in "mostly awk" iirc
18:44:14 <AnMaster> may have been some part bash too
18:44:48 <AnMaster> ais523, it is probably in one of the repos at bzr.kuonet.org
18:45:04 <AnMaster> that is the repo browser everyone wanted
18:46:04 <AnMaster> http://bzr.kuonet.org/bashfuck/trunk/annotate/41?file_id=libcompiler.sh-20071030094711-58wlb8wcipp53wze-1
18:47:04 <AnMaster> really this was back in 2007 I think
18:47:17 <ais523> well that's quite recent for optbot, it's dragging stuff up at random
18:47:17 <optbot> ais523: I want to use a base-5 numeral system!
18:47:18 <psygnisfive> im going to be taking a class called Philosophy and Computation this upcoming semester
18:47:26 <psygnisfive> An investigation of topics at the interface between philosophy and computation, including both (1) philosophy
18:47:27 <psygnisfive> about computers, minds and machines, and (2) hands-on work in robotics and computer modeling as
18:47:28 <psygnisfive> philosophical toys and philosophical tools. Topics will include the history of computing machinery, conceptual
18:47:31 <psygnisfive> foundations and limits of contemporary computing, computation and consciousness (Descartes, Wittgenstein,
18:47:34 <psygnisfive> Dennett, and Searle), agent-based and social modeling. There will be extensive hands-on laboratory projects in
18:47:37 <psygnisfive> elementary robotics and Turing machines, as well as work with fuzzy logic software, chaos theory, cellular
18:47:44 <optbot> AnMaster: unless you have multiple languages
18:47:54 -!- olsner has joined.
18:47:57 <AnMaster> hey, most of that made some kind of sense
18:48:00 <AnMaster> <optbot> ais523: I want to use a base-5 numeral system!
18:48:03 <AnMaster> <AnMaster> optbot, sure, "ESAB"4(
18:48:03 <optbot> AnMaster: It would be sorta pointless to implement these commands, because they're being used in packet transfer.
18:48:36 <ais523> AnMaster: well it's talking in both Underload and some weird Funge fingerprint now
18:48:57 <ais523> although I don't see how BASE implements packet transfer apart from D
18:48:57 <AnMaster> ais523, well I just told it how to get base 5
18:49:13 <ais523> well, optbot was wrong then
18:49:13 <optbot> ais523: I still don't get one thing about the MIT licence...
18:49:47 <psygnisfive> I mean, cmon, hands on work with turing machinese?! I could give them formal definitions in my sleep!
18:49:47 <AnMaster> psygnisfive, well it seems to match what happens in #esoteric quite a bit
18:50:17 <Sgeo> How do I search the contents of all text files in a directory for something?
18:50:25 * Sgeo realizes the answer
18:50:30 <Deewiant> find -name "*.txt" | grep something
18:50:34 <AnMaster> psygnisfive, you make *less* sense than that bot now
18:50:39 <ais523> Sgeo: grep something *.txt
18:50:49 <Sgeo> Well, don't know if it's .txt
18:50:51 <AnMaster> Deewiant, hi, have you see Mike recently on irc? I got some questions about those new fingerprints of his
18:50:51 <psygnisfive> they're a five tuple (S,G,d,q_accept,q_reject)
18:50:52 <ais523> find | xargs would only be needed to search recursively through directories
18:51:10 <ais523> and even then grep -R will search through all text and all binary files, but just say "binary file matches" for binary files
18:51:12 <AnMaster> Deewiant, like the regex one doesn't say *what* flavour of regex to use
18:51:14 <ais523> so grep -R something .
18:51:16 <psygnisfive> oh, sorry, there should also be a set Q in there I think
18:51:36 <AnMaster> Deewiant, it says use POSIX extended if a certain flag is passed, but not what to use by default
18:51:46 <AnMaster> any idea how to get in contact with him?
18:51:55 <psygnisfive> d being something of type SxGxQ -> GxQx{L,R}
18:51:56 <ais523> grep -RI something . searches only text files
18:52:10 <ais523> Sgeo: -R to search recursively through dirs
18:52:14 <ais523> -I to skip binary files
18:52:23 <ais523> that's capital I not lowercase l
18:52:24 * Sgeo stops what he was doing
18:52:46 <ais523> ah, i just checked, both -r and -R do the same thing
18:53:00 <ais523> which is a bit silly really but useful if you can't remember
18:53:19 <Deewiant> you can't restrict what files you search that way though, it goes through everything
18:53:25 <Deewiant> (apart from what it thinks is binary)
18:53:26 <Sgeo> Well, the I is still useful
18:53:30 <ais523> Deewiant: it goes through all text files which is what he asked for
18:53:42 <ais523> and yes, you'd use find if you wanted to do something more complicated
18:53:44 <psygnisfive> then TM reads a character off the tape transitions to some new state, writes a character to the tape, and moves L or R
18:53:44 <Deewiant> aye, but it might also go through a multi-gigabyte log file he didn't want ;-)
18:53:47 <Sgeo> I'm looking for a playlist I made a long time ago
18:53:55 <psygnisfive> until it either reaches an accept or reject state
18:54:07 <psygnisfive> AnMaster, I'm fairly certain thats the formal definition
18:54:12 <Sgeo> ...I remember the name, why don't I just use that?
18:54:17 <psygnisfive> I might've added an extra alphabet in there. e.e
18:54:23 <Sgeo> what's the thing for finding by name again?
18:54:58 <Sgeo> sgeo@ubuntu:/oldfiles$ find -name "?utation*"
18:55:11 <ais523> Sgeo: use slocate if you have it, it's much faster
18:55:27 <AnMaster> Deewiant, no idea about how to reach Mike Reily (spelling?)?
18:55:27 <psygnisfive> AnMaster: It's really not that interesting a model, to be honest. the simplest models do simple computations in obvious ways
18:55:28 <ais523> I think ubuntu has it by default, not sure though
18:55:47 <Sgeo> How do I restrict slocate to a certain directory and its subdirectories?
18:55:59 <psygnisfive> for instance, equality checking on two items like this: 00011101#00011101uuuu...
18:56:16 <Sgeo> Spelling would also help
18:56:21 -!- tusho has changed nick to tusho|away.
18:56:26 <psygnisfive> checking that the binary strings are the same is quite simple, really. almost human like.
18:56:34 <ais523> Sgeo: slocate's sufficiently fast that I normally just grep its output
18:56:38 <psygnisfive> cross off the first 0 and transition into a "match a 0" state
18:56:46 -!- kar8nga has joined.
18:56:48 <ais523> because it's searching an index it builds in a cronjob, not the filesystem
18:56:49 <psygnisfive> then move to the first not-crossed off symbol after #
18:57:07 <psygnisfive> then move back to the first not crossed off symbol before the #
18:57:17 <Sgeo> In a grep, how do I get rid of say, anything with cache in it?
18:57:20 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.).
18:57:30 -!- jix has joined.
18:57:53 -!- jix has quit (Remote closed the connection).
18:58:01 <AnMaster> Deewiant, ah I don't think I have his address
18:58:07 <Sgeo> Can I use that in the same grep to look for oldfiles, or should I chain greps?
18:58:10 -!- jix has joined.
18:58:23 <Deewiant> there might be a way to do it in one
18:58:25 <AnMaster> Sgeo, /etc/updatedb.conf for me to restrict locate indexing
18:58:48 <Sgeo> $ slocate utation | grep oldfiles | grep -v cache
18:58:59 <ais523> I remember a while ago I was given a task to do which effectively was to download, compile and run certain programs that were prewritten and observe their results
18:59:12 <ais523> it was such a mechanical task that I went and wrote a Makefile to do it
18:59:34 <Deewiant> AnMaster: mikehriley@hotmail.com
18:59:42 <ais523> also, one of the programs was so inefficient that I went and recoded it in bash + standard Unix utilities, and ran my recoded version, all while the original program was running
19:00:10 <Sgeo> Still nothing found
19:00:36 <Deewiant> Sgeo: slocate searches for filenames with utation in them
19:00:56 <Deewiant> do you want to search through filenames or file contents?
19:01:24 <Deewiant> that command searches only through filenames
19:01:47 <Sgeo> Wow, I'm glad that that path did not successfully enter this channel, it has my RL name in it
19:02:01 <ais523> although on recent Ubuntu tracker-search-tool will search contents much the same way slocate searches filenames
19:02:05 <Deewiant> and what a tragedy that would have been
19:02:21 <Sgeo> No, no that file wasn't it
19:02:55 * Sgeo needs his grep to work
19:03:26 <Sgeo> Well, not needs, I guess. Want
19:03:31 <Sgeo> It's just a playlist
19:04:03 * Sgeo misses Mutation!
19:04:40 <Sgeo> And no, mutation is not just the name of a playlist
19:04:57 <Sgeo> http://wiki.activeworlds.com/index.php?title=Mutation
19:05:31 -!- tusho|away has changed nick to tusho.
19:06:51 * Sgeo knew all the puzzles, and I was once able to help a Teacher's Aide because her homework was similar to one of the puzzles
19:06:58 <tusho> i invited AnMaster here
19:07:13 <tusho> I was in #bash asking for help, he mentioned he was writing a bf interp, I helped him in /query
19:07:21 <tusho> and then told him to come here
19:07:29 <tusho> i was not aware of his posix_fnature.
19:08:54 <tusho> tusho|away was automatic
19:09:22 <ais523> the |away can be useful, though
19:09:59 * Sgeo makes slocate case-insensitive
19:10:01 * tusho automates "hi ais523"
19:10:10 <tusho> linkinus is scriptable with applescript :p
19:10:12 * tusho looks at the examples
19:10:30 -!- asiekierka has quit (Connection timed out).
19:10:35 <tusho> I'm writing a script to
19:10:42 <Sgeo> http://web.archive.org/web/20050113023358/www.mutation3d.net/chapter1_en.jsp
19:10:44 <tusho> 11:01:47 <Sgeo> Wow, I'm glad that that path did not successfully enter this channel, it has my RL name in it
19:10:49 <tusho> i think I remember that
19:10:52 <AnMaster> tusho, about the invite I mean
19:11:06 <AnMaster> <tusho> i invited AnMaster here
19:11:26 <AnMaster> tusho, must have been back at bashfuck time?
19:11:58 <AnMaster> I remember speaking to someone in /msg who was also writing a brain fuck interpreter, one in C
19:12:06 <AnMaster> about data structures he would use
19:12:32 <AnMaster> some thing about linked list with down nodes for loops (which is pretty much what I did in Def-BF)
19:12:55 <tusho> yay, I just re-discovered sgeo's IRL name
19:13:46 -!- ais523 has left (?).
19:13:46 -!- ais523 has joined.
19:13:58 <ais523> hmm, obviously you haven't automated a hi yet
19:14:24 <tusho> I'm figuring out how to get that event
19:19:16 <ais523> incidentally, everyone: it's off-topic but I find http://entertainment.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=08/08/08/1347212&from=rss really amusing
19:19:32 <ais523> someone wrote a program for the iPhone costing $1000 which had no purpose but to prove you could afford it
19:19:49 <tusho> that was on reddit yesterday...
19:19:54 <ais523> AnMaster: the say-hi-first game looks like it's being automated
19:20:09 <ais523> tusho: ah, I don't read reddit regularly, that's the first I've seen of it, and 1 day isn't really old
19:20:12 <AnMaster> ais523, you got it scripted yet?
19:20:24 <tusho> AnMaster: he doesn't script i
19:20:29 <ais523> AnMaster: no, I was halfway through writing a bot to do it when I decided I couldn't be bothered
19:20:38 <tusho> AnMaster: who cares
19:20:49 <tusho> AnMaster: i have your new nick - captain_obvious
19:24:08 <tusho> On being able to script people joining the channel:
19:24:08 <tusho> [19:23:43] <Fedaykin|MBP> that is one of the major features planed for the next release
19:24:46 <AnMaster> $ grep -E '^.{4}$' /usr/share/dict/words | wc -l
19:24:48 <psygnisfive> you need to scale that technology across the enterprise, net net.
19:25:15 <tusho> [19:24:22] <Fedaykin|MBP> there is no system in place for inbound actions just yet
19:25:36 <psygnisfive> open the kimono and develop this paradigm, but don't try to boil the ocean!
19:25:37 <tusho> so colloquy just generally sucks, apart from scripting at which it rocks, and linkinus is ok, apart from scripting at which it sucks
19:26:11 <Sgeo> Circe has a scripting mechanism
19:26:21 <tusho> and happens to be unusable
19:27:00 <Sgeo> No, I'm not using Circe now. Why would I use a client that wasn't developed in who knows how long, and also illegally public-domained?
19:27:03 <ais523> AnMaster: seems interesting, how are you going to get a random 4 letter word though?
19:27:20 <tusho> ais523: he just said
19:27:23 <AnMaster> ais523, grep -E '^.{4}$' /usr/share/dict/words
19:27:27 <tusho> [19:24:46] <AnMaster> $ grep -E '^.{4}$' /usr/share/dict/words | wc -l
19:27:32 <AnMaster> then pick a random one from that
19:27:48 <AnMaster> anyway I don't know what half of those words mean
19:28:29 <AnMaster> any of you know what those words are?
19:28:38 * Sgeo murders Circe for not working just when I wanted to demonstrate that it wasn't broken
19:28:55 <ais523> a "trow" is sort of like a troll, but from a different mythology
19:29:06 <Deewiant> ais523: isn't that just in the game Myth? :-P
19:29:27 <ais523> Deewiant: I've only seen it in games, but games other than that one so presumably they're getting it from a common source
19:29:48 <Deewiant> that common source may also be a game or similar, though
19:29:57 <Deewiant> I doubt it comes from any real-world myths
19:30:34 <ais523> Deewiant: there are a lot of real-world myths around
19:30:45 <Deewiant> dictionary.com says "trow" is a verb, means to believe
19:30:53 <ais523> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Trow says it's a sort of boat
19:31:07 <tusho> ais523: hahahahaha, #linkinus are saying that I should just write a bot.
19:31:11 <tusho> that ... would not work in this acse.
19:31:17 <Deewiant> but still, having seen it only in games makes me doubt its origin
19:31:17 <ais523> tusho: well, I was going to
19:31:25 <tusho> ais523: but it'd run on your irc client
19:31:35 <ais523> no, I was going to write a separate one
19:31:41 <ais523> Konversation doesn't script afaict
19:31:44 <Deewiant> ah, the orkney and shetland islands
19:31:51 <ais523> it runs external programs instead
19:31:56 <tusho> ais523: what browser(s) do you have there?
19:32:11 <ais523> tusho: firefox, epiphany, konqueror, w3m
19:32:24 <tusho> ah, good. Could you look at http://91.105.115.23/?
19:32:41 <tusho> i'd like to know that it works on most everything (I know it works on IE7! First time!)
19:32:45 <tusho> and that it also looks nice :P
19:33:19 <ais523> it seems to work on Konq but there's a lot of blackspace at the top of the page (I would say "whitespace", but...)
19:33:36 <tusho> ais523: bluespace actually
19:33:41 <tusho> and there's meant to be
19:33:41 <ais523> also the colour scheme's badly affected by LCD colour parallax
19:33:50 <ais523> it can be either very black or very blue depending on the angle I look at it at
19:33:51 <tusho> the text is meant to start around where the bloom is
19:33:57 <tusho> you can see the bloom right
19:34:01 <ais523> tusho: why? it means I have to scroll when my window isn't full-size
19:34:05 <ais523> tusho: at some screen angles, not others
19:34:17 <tusho> ais523: uh, it doesn't start very far down
19:34:36 <ais523> the bluespace is about the same size as the first paragraph
19:34:53 <tusho> anyway, it's because it looks nicer this way :)
19:35:02 <ais523> tusho: not in a small window it doesn't
19:35:11 <tusho> ais523: that'd have to be a pretty darn small window
19:35:15 <ais523> maybe you should try to centre it in the window or something
19:35:20 <ais523> tusho: small but not unusable]
19:35:31 <tusho> also it's not centered
19:35:39 <tusho> it's nearer the top
19:35:42 <ais523> tusho: I know it isn't, I'm suggesting centring would probably work better
19:35:50 <tusho> ais523: not from a design point of view :-P
19:35:53 <ais523> and even maximised it's nearer the bottom on this screen
19:35:58 <ais523> because you waste so much space at the top
19:36:09 <tusho> methinks my css is making more space for you
19:36:11 <tusho> can I have a screeny?
19:36:24 <ais523> let me try it on Firefox first
19:37:04 <ais523> no better with a small window, but Firefox's default window size is bigger
19:37:27 <ais523> wasting 185px of vertical space is inexcusable really, some computers only have 480px vertical space altogether and will use much of it for toolbars
19:37:35 <tusho> i still don't see how your window could be small enough for that -shrug-
19:37:42 <ais523> I have 800px vertical by default
19:37:47 <tusho> it should fit fine
19:37:48 <ais523> and a half-screen-height window is common for me
19:37:51 <tusho> even with toolbars
19:37:57 <ais523> which gives me only 400px minus toolbars
19:38:07 <ais523> which means your text starts more than halfway down the screen and doesn't finish onscreen
19:38:10 <AnMaster> ais523, it works great in lynx ;P
19:38:30 <AnMaster> tusho, why is there a small dotted rectangle in front of the header
19:38:36 <tusho> AnMaster: get unicode fonts
19:38:38 <ais523> 185 px is a /massive/ amount to waste
19:38:50 <tusho> AnMaster: you've already said you agree
19:38:57 <tusho> you don't have to parrot off "I agree" every time something is re-stated
19:39:18 <AnMaster> tusho, list some fonts I have and I can get unicode fonts you like
19:39:30 <AnMaster> like dejavu or bitstream vera sans
19:39:38 <tusho> AnMaster: it should work fine.
19:39:44 <tusho> i don't know what's up with your syste
19:40:11 <tusho> AnMaster: you have lucida grande on there
19:40:13 <tusho> so it should display it fine
19:40:21 <tusho> i know lucida grande does that char
19:40:25 <AnMaster> tusho, well not installed on this one
19:40:36 <tusho> AnMaster: have you got a unicode font?
19:40:41 <tusho> font-family: "Lucida Grande", "Arial Unicode MS", sans-serif;
19:40:51 <tusho> should fall back to a font supporting that char
19:40:56 <AnMaster> it does have bitstream vera sans, helvetica and a few more
19:41:05 <tusho> then I have no idea
19:41:16 <ais523> tusho: ais523@eso-std.org:/home/ais523/ehird-185-stupidity.png
19:41:18 <ais523> there's your screenshot
19:41:26 <ais523> with my default Konq window size
19:41:31 <AnMaster> tusho, standard fallback font seems to be arial for some odd reason
19:41:44 <ais523> AnMaster: Arial used to be the default because it was first in alphabetical order
19:41:55 <ais523> and Arial and Arial Unicode are different fonts for some inexplicable reason
19:42:03 <ais523> AnMaster: back in the days of windows 3.1
19:42:18 <Deewiant> AnMaster: did you mail Mike already, btw
19:42:22 <AnMaster> it got ms fonts for some reason
19:42:28 -!- Tritonio_ has joined.
19:42:39 <AnMaster> Deewiant, about default regex flavour in REXP
19:42:44 <AnMaster> Deewiant, and about test suites
19:42:45 <Deewiant> I just realized I had a question for him and figured you might ask it for me if you hadn't
19:42:51 <ais523> AnMaster: ah, maybe they used the same fallback as win3.1 deliberately but I doubt it
19:43:06 <Deewiant> namely, is D meant to delete dirs or reflect on them
19:43:18 <AnMaster> Deewiant, ah you mail him too then
19:43:26 <Deewiant> since evidently it's not implemented in RC/Funge :-P
19:43:34 <AnMaster> Deewiant, anyway if you want to do recursive delete you have issues
19:44:01 <AnMaster> I do not wish to implement recursive rm
19:44:32 <AnMaster> I just call unlink and reflects if that fails
19:44:39 <tusho> Deewiant: there's not a posix_ function for recursive deletion
19:44:53 <Deewiant> AnMaster: but I'd still like to know the intended behaviour
19:44:56 <AnMaster> Deewiant, you do? you checked on bzr.kuonet.org or what?
19:45:43 <AnMaster> Deewiant, actually I haven't tested my D, waiting for mycology to test it
19:46:36 <AnMaster> Deewiant, as for more extensive test suite for TURT, I don't think I will have time
19:49:19 <AnMaster> is it possible to make a brainfuck complete language where it is impossible to make quines?
19:50:48 <Deewiant> what is that, like turing complete but not? :-P
19:50:51 <ais523> Deewiant: capable of doing anything BF can do, so Turing complete and can also do IO as well as BF
19:51:14 <AnMaster> Deewiant, turing complete + any stdio like brainfuck
19:51:16 <Deewiant> "IO as well as BF" where BF is?
19:53:00 <Sgeo> I'm starting to think user-made playlists are stored in the registry
19:53:32 <Sgeo> For the Yamaha something-or-other software synth and MIDI player
19:53:43 <AnMaster> Deewiant, what about a language that always append some (random?) extra chars at the end of each lines?
19:54:30 <AnMaster> that are not valid in the program code
19:54:31 <Deewiant> that doesn't imply BF-compatible output to me :-P
19:54:50 -!- dogface has joined.
19:55:26 <tusho> ais523: seen my concatenative lang?
19:55:35 <Deewiant> tusho: got a spec or impl yet?
19:55:52 <tusho> ais523: two programs:
19:55:53 <tusho> 0 .n 0 1 [dup [+ .n] dip swap] loop
19:55:55 <tusho> infinite fibonacci
19:56:07 -!- asiekierka has joined.
19:56:08 <tusho> stdin chars reverse [.] each
19:56:15 <tusho> reverses stdin char-by-char
19:56:33 <ais523> how does that differ from Joy?
19:56:35 <optbot> asiekierka: & doubleplop
19:57:00 <ais523> hm... what does the .n do?
19:57:01 <tusho> ais523: it's more awesome :)
19:57:12 <tusho> .n is pretty much: . "\n" .
19:57:17 <tusho> where . is the generic print function
19:57:38 <dogface> The idea of a "best non-optimizing compiler" is kind of interesting. If I wanted to translate between BF and BF-with-an-[-]-instruction, it'd be obvious how to do it: replace [-] with the instruction, and vice versa.
19:57:41 <ais523> hmm... you have your own reverse function
19:57:50 <tusho> er, what do you mean
19:57:58 <tusho> anyway it's more practical than joy (e.g. I hope to have an easy curses-like thing), but it isn't like factor
19:58:00 <ais523> in Overload translated to your notation, reverse would be written as [concat] combine
19:58:03 <tusho> branches off in a different direction
19:58:11 <dogface> You could easily optimize before compiling as easily as you could optimize afterward.
19:58:12 <tusho> ais523: perhaps that's how it's implemented? :)
19:58:27 <tusho> ais523: also "stdin chars" is very elegant
19:58:30 <tusho> it doesn't do what you think
19:58:36 <ais523> asiekierka: I don't know of one which doesn't cheat
19:58:41 <tusho> basically, stdin implements all the list stuff - like "each", "map" etc
19:58:44 <tusho> and even things like "reverse"
19:58:47 <tusho> but it does them line-based
19:58:58 <tusho> "chars" takes an IO object and returns a new one, but that has its list operations operate on the chars
19:58:59 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
19:59:02 <ais523> asiekierka: look at Whirl (I think that's how it's spelt)
19:59:08 <tusho> there'll also be one that lets you do it in blocks of N chars
19:59:11 <tusho> and all sorts of stuff like that
19:59:13 <ais523> that gives you the general idea of how to do it by cheating
19:59:40 <ais523> probably it can be done by cheating but less blatantly than that
20:00:25 <tusho> the only one-char language is the encoding of language X into unary
20:00:36 -!- jix has joined.
20:00:42 <asiekierka> That's something like unary, but not quite it. Smaller, mainly.
20:00:54 <dogface> How does it have one command but two symbols?
20:01:02 <asiekierka> command is $. symbols are $ and space.
20:01:16 <ais523> dogface: e isn't counting NOP
20:01:28 <ais523> just like 1L allegedly only has one command
20:01:37 <ais523> but as NOPs actually do something they aren't even NOPs
20:01:50 <AnMaster> Deewiant, about TERM, you said you can't use ncurses?
20:01:52 <tusho> you could probably get a one-command language if all invalid commands were ignored
20:01:56 <tusho> nobody says that brainfuck is infinite command
20:02:04 <asiekierka> If the $ is odd, it selects the command by using the table, where the position is the count of $ divided by 2. (the table is 1-8)
20:02:12 <AnMaster> Deewiant, then I'd say it is impossible to implement in a portable way
20:02:18 <ais523> tusho: all OISCs are one-command langs, they have one command and lots of arguments
20:02:27 <ais523> also Wait is arguably a zero-command lang
20:02:29 <tusho> ais523: well, I guess
20:02:31 <tusho> I mean iwthout arguments
20:02:32 <Deewiant> you do realize that curses is implemented as well, right? :-P
20:02:42 <asiekierka> if $ is even, the command is executed.
20:02:49 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I would have to implement all the different escape codes for different terminals
20:02:50 <tusho> He uses posix_curses.
20:02:53 <tusho> It's built into the CPU.
20:02:59 <Deewiant> AnMaster: that's what termcap is for
20:03:01 <AnMaster> Deewiant, also on some cursor addressing doesn't work in normal mode
20:03:02 <tusho> it has a Curses Chip.
20:03:11 <AnMaster> Deewiant, which means blanking is needed in between
20:03:13 <asiekierka> $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $ $$$$$$$$$$ $ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $ $$$$$$$$$$$$$$ $ $$$$$$$$$$$$ $
20:03:28 <tusho> asiekierka: that's totally 2 commands
20:03:36 <Deewiant> AnMaster: doesn't termcap handle that as well
20:03:44 <Deewiant> I'm not at all sure what you actually mean by that
20:03:51 <ais523> asiekierka: seen Black?
20:03:52 <asiekierka> the whitespaces only separate, they aren't even NOPs!
20:03:53 <ais523> that also has one command
20:04:02 <Deewiant> but I would imagine that termcap would handle all such things
20:04:07 <ais523> again cheating slightly, but I think it's elegant anyway
20:04:11 <optbot> tusho: you can assign separate dl speeds for individual files
20:04:14 <AnMaster> Deewiant, yes, and that blanks screen on all consoles when I enable cursor adressing mode
20:04:18 <tusho> optbot: *Relevant* thoughts?
20:04:18 <optbot> tusho: i can't believe it
20:04:23 <AnMaster> Deewiant, so it doesn't help at all
20:04:25 <tusho> optbot: what, a 1-command lang?
20:04:25 <optbot> tusho: EgoBot seems not to be here at the moment, which is a pity as it knows more languages than bsmnt_bot does
20:04:34 <tusho> optbot: what lang do you need?
20:04:34 <optbot> tusho: __copyright__="Copyright 2006 Andrew Pennebaker"
20:04:38 <AnMaster> Deewiant, because I only use the termcap part of ncurses
20:04:38 <tusho> optbot: hmm, python?
20:04:38 <optbot> tusho: And "You never know what you'll find over the <rainbow>"? x_x
20:04:56 <Deewiant> AnMaster: don't use ncurses, that's what clears the screen
20:04:59 <asiekierka> $$$$$$$ $$$$$ $$$$$$$$ $$$$$$$ $$$$$$ - when removing the odd/even thing, executing immediately and removing the /2
20:05:23 <AnMaster> Deewiant, it is the enter_ca_mode that does
20:05:26 <dogface> Define a command as a function from integer to integer, with some provision for goto.
20:05:31 <AnMaster> which is needed for cursor adressing
20:05:34 <ais523> Deewiant: on DOS you could get around that by doing a screen capture first
20:05:44 <ais523> but I don't think text-mode screen captures are possible on a VT100, at least not easy
20:05:44 <asiekierka> Also, what command has the most commands, all of which must be 1-char/1-pixel?
20:05:44 <tusho> The annoying use of ツ as a smiley. DISCUSS.
20:05:46 <AnMaster> Deewiant, which is needed by G
20:05:50 <AnMaster> Deewiant, http://bzr.kuonet.org/cfunge/trunk/annotate/337?file_id=term.c-20080715223140-lsa1tw5728k7pfxs-3
20:05:55 <asiekierka> ツ ツ ツ ツ ツ ツ ツ ツ ツ ツ ツ ツ ツ ツ ツ ツ ツ ツ ツ ツ ツ ツ ツ ツ ツ ツ ツ ツ ツ ツ ツ ツ ツ ツ ツ ツ ツ ツ ツ ツ ツ ツ ツ
20:05:58 <ais523> and everything emulates VT100 so you don't need to implement anything else nowadays
20:06:13 <tusho> asiekierka I thought you had given up doing things just because people said they were annoying
20:06:29 <AnMaster> ais523, um, cursor addressing, needs enter_ca_mode/exit_ca_mode
20:06:50 <ais523> AnMaster: can you do it without clearing the screen first to load curses?
20:06:52 <asiekierka> in Annoying ツ Smiley language i just invented
20:06:58 <tusho> asiekierka: Yeah - by spamming it over and over after I said it was annoying.
20:07:11 <tusho> asiekierka: Protip - Don't do things repeatedly straight after someone says it's annoying.
20:07:12 <asiekierka> you mean before. Also, you said DISCUSS. SO I DISCUSSED it.
20:07:13 <ais523> tusho: what is that character actually?
20:07:16 <tusho> (Perhaps surprisingly,) it's annoying.
20:07:19 <AnMaster> ais523, for god sake as I said three times now, it is not loading curses that cause screen clear, it is enter_ca_mode/exit_ca_mode
20:07:21 <dogface> Define a command as a pair of (function from integer to integer, element of {-1, 0, 1}), where if the right part is 1 and the function returns 0, it jumps to the corresponding -1.
20:07:25 <tusho> ais523: japanese character
20:07:29 <tusho> hirigana or katakana
20:07:45 <ais523> AnMaster: ah, but I've loaded curses, clearing the screen, despite never having heard of enter_ca_mode
20:07:59 <ais523> so maybe it calls it behind the scenes somewhere?
20:07:59 <AnMaster> ais523, depends on what routine you use
20:08:02 <Deewiant> ais523: that's because curses does it internally probably
20:08:20 <optbot> ais523: happy birthday!
20:08:36 <optbot> tusho: http://www.blogblog.com/no897/corner_main.gif
20:08:37 <ais523> does optbot know something I don't?
20:08:38 <optbot> ais523: if you give it an empty line you have to give it some input before it'll say it doesn't understand
20:08:40 <AnMaster> which is how you load the full curses
20:08:40 <asiekierka> The annoying use of digits ? through ?. DISCUSS.
20:08:45 <tusho> optbot: elegant corner.
20:08:45 <optbot> tusho: But does that turn every qubit on the tape to the same value as the current qubit?
20:08:51 -!- dogface has left (?).
20:08:59 <AnMaster> ais523, so there is no way around screen clearing
20:09:13 <ais523> AnMaster: can you read from the screen at all before it clears?
20:09:26 <AnMaster> ais523, http://bzr.kuonet.org/cfunge/trunk/annotate/337?file_id=term.c-20080715223140-lsa1tw5728k7pfxs-3
20:09:28 <ais523> <TEST> stop nickpinging me!
20:09:46 <Deewiant> AnMaster: I'm fairly certain that CCBI's TERM didn't clear the screen despite using enter_ca_mode
20:09:56 <ais523> in DOS it wasn't too hard to read from the screen
20:09:58 <AnMaster> Deewiant, that may depend on terminal
20:10:03 <tusho> ais523: I've changed nick to 'i' before
20:10:05 <Deewiant> AnMaster: where do you get your enter_ca_mode variable from?
20:10:07 <tusho> it gets really annoying
20:10:10 <tusho> BLEEP BLEEP BLEEP BLEEP BLEEP BLEEP BLEEP BLEEP BLEEP BLEEP BLEEP BLEEP
20:10:12 <AnMaster> Deewiant, it does in xterm at least
20:10:29 <ais523> asiekierka: seven now, why?
20:10:38 <bsmntbombdood> why do you people keep talking about bsmnt_bot behind his back
20:10:41 <AnMaster> $ grep enter_ca_mode /usr/include/term.h
20:10:41 <AnMaster> #define enter_ca_mode CUR Strings[28]
20:10:51 <ais523> bsmntbombdood: I didn't think we did
20:10:59 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well this is a simpler way to do the same
20:11:00 <tusho> bsmntbombdood: that's optbot
20:11:05 <tusho> bsmntbombdood: he talks about everything
20:11:08 <optbot> tusho: pls give me the names of some backs that u have the login
20:11:14 <tusho> that's from that hacker guy
20:11:18 <tusho> who wanted to pay us to hack banks
20:11:24 <AnMaster> Deewiant, man setupterm lists all the related functions here
20:11:25 <tusho> i linked him to tubgirl
20:11:39 <tusho> and he described what it is calmly as if I had merely linked him to the wrong site
20:11:40 <ais523> tusho: that was mean, stop trying to DOS tubgirl
20:12:05 <AnMaster> Deewiant, http://rafb.net/p/2JfoKK45.html
20:12:20 <asiekierka> Schrodinger's Message: Until you read it, you have no idea whether it's annoying or not.
20:12:22 <Deewiant> AnMaster: aye, but I never saw anything about predefined variables like that
20:12:25 <AnMaster> Deewiant, and then there are those defines
20:12:30 <asiekierka> EXCEPT if it uses the annoying japanese smiley thing
20:12:37 <tusho> http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/africa/7547148.stm Nigerian with 84 wives: Don't marry 86 wives.
20:12:46 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well they just map to those arrays
20:12:55 <AnMaster> Deewiant, it was mentioned in some man page
20:13:15 <AnMaster> Deewiant, they are all listed in man 5 terminfo
20:13:53 <AnMaster> " The variable is the name by which the programmer (at the terminfo level) accesses the capability."
20:13:57 <ais523> incidentally, did Goatse ever become slashdotted from all the trolling?
20:14:04 <tusho> ais523: hahaha that would be great
20:14:09 <tusho> ais523: incidentally, goatse.cx is now work-safe
20:14:11 <tusho> although just as horrifying
20:14:19 <ais523> work-safe but horrifying?
20:14:21 <tusho> and with the same amount of mental termoil
20:14:26 <tusho> ais523: see for yourself!
20:14:42 <ais523> incidentally I ignore anyone who says anything about goatse like that, the chance that it's a gullibility check is just too high
20:14:54 <Deewiant> AnMaster: hm, is there anything there to read what's on the screen
20:14:55 <tusho> ais523: it's a picture of bill o'reilly
20:15:02 <ais523> especially if someone tells me it's mentally turmulous, I tend not to look at it
20:15:47 <tusho> anyone want to back me up on this one?
20:15:52 <ais523> well, if goatse isn't blocked by the filters here then the IT staff aren't doing their job, so I'm not even going to try
20:16:37 <tusho> ais523: scp eso-std.org:/home/tusho/Picture\ 9.png .
20:16:56 <Deewiant> AnMaster: in which case, enter_ca_mode is all that can be done
20:17:04 <Deewiant> if it's terminal dependent how it behaves then it is
20:17:29 * ais523 wonders where enwiki's bad-md5-list got to, that's one way of checking for goatse without looking at it
20:17:45 <ais523> but tusho, seriously, I'm not actually interested
20:17:57 <tusho> it only took me 3 seconds to upload that
20:18:02 <tusho> so it wasn't like I had to do much work :P
20:18:20 <ais523> it's like you're trying very hard to get me to see goatse, and I'm offended by that
20:18:46 <ais523> asiekierka: no it's just a straightforward imperative lang with no redeeming features
20:19:14 <ais523> think BASIC with l33t commands
20:19:27 <tusho> asiekierka: you'd probably like it, as you seem to like everything I say is annoying just on principle...
20:19:28 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well as you see there is no way I can avoid clearing the screen
20:20:01 <AnMaster> Deewiant, in konsole it even enters a different mode where you can't see the scrollback before, and can't scroll, and then on exit_ca_mode it removes all that and you return to your previous scrollback
20:20:15 <AnMaster> Deewiant, with no trace of anything in between
20:20:46 <AnMaster> in xterm it just fills a screen with blank
20:21:03 <AnMaster> and on return from the mode nothing happens
20:21:33 <tusho> asiekierka: ais523 maintains C-INTERCAL
20:21:38 <tusho> so, I'm sure the answer is: intercal sucks
20:22:03 <asiekierka> what's the best esoteric language, then
20:22:04 <ais523> asiekierka: INTERCAL is nowadays quite unlike BASIC, once you try using it for a while you'll see the difference
20:22:10 <ais523> asiekierka: what do you mean by 'best'?
20:22:19 <ais523> arguably HQ9+, for accomplishing so much with so little
20:22:33 <ais523> it manages to be a huge counterexample to everything whilst being highly amusing
20:22:41 <AnMaster> there is no single best language
20:22:45 <ais523> BF is probably the most popular, and probably has the most programs in it
20:23:11 <asiekierka> Something more in the lines of... CAT.
20:23:16 <AnMaster> Befunge is also pretty popular
20:23:28 <ais523> Thutu is the only esolang that I've ever deliberately chosen over non-esolangs to write a program in
20:23:38 <ais523> after deciding it was the best language for the job
20:23:42 <asiekierka> not a 2-d or 1-d programming language, something with real commands
20:23:45 <ais523> but I used a wimpmode version of it
20:23:48 <AnMaster> I'd say Brainfuck, INTERCAL and Befunge are all near the top when it comes to popularity
20:23:57 <ais523> AnMaster: yes, probably BF, Befunge, INTERCAL in that order
20:24:01 <ais523> possibly INTERCAL beats Befunge, I'm not sure
20:24:16 <AnMaster> ais523, well there is unlambda or whatever too
20:24:18 <asiekierka> so i'm going to modify a GCS, MegaZeux, to add INTERCAL
20:24:26 <tusho> asiekierka: good freaking luck
20:24:28 <ais523> AnMaster: yes, famous but I don't think it has as many programs
20:24:35 <tusho> asiekierka: good luck with computed COME FORM
20:24:51 <ais523> tusho: well e could just try INTERCAL-72, that's easier than modern INTERCAL
20:25:00 <tusho> ais523: but also closer to being a boring basic variation
20:25:04 <ais523> although still has weirdnesses that make it hard to implemetn
20:25:09 <asiekierka> Anyone has an interpreter? Adding INTERCAL to MZX is already hell of a job
20:25:17 <tusho> asiekierka: CLC-INTERCAL?
20:25:24 <ais523> asiekierka: well, I maintain C-INTERCAL but it's a compiler
20:25:30 <tusho> asiekierka: C-INTERCAL is in C
20:25:32 <tusho> but it's a compiler
20:25:33 <ais523> and CLC-INTERCAL is a bytecode compiler + interpreter
20:25:40 <ais523> and also in CLC-INTERCAL
20:25:44 <AnMaster> "MegaZeux, or MZX, is a game creation system (GCS) based on Tim Sweeney/Epic Megagames'"
20:25:53 <tusho> AnMaster: what about it
20:25:58 <tusho> and stop nickpinging me
20:26:01 <tusho> and read whatever article you found
20:26:03 <ais523> you need some precompiled bytecode to start the compilation process off, not sure how Claudio generated it in the first place, maybe by hand
20:26:05 <tusho> and yes, presumably
20:26:10 <tusho> he has talked about ZZT
20:26:30 <AnMaster> well it got nothing to do with esoteric as far as I can see
20:26:56 <ais523> asiekierka: they're tricky to write in C, although it has been done
20:28:01 <AnMaster> by the way I created a game of life implementation in a scriptable propitary share ware fantasy rpg once. as a scenario, my only defence is that my mobo on my pc was broken and I had this old game engine on my old mac, so I was bored to hell
20:28:03 <ais523> Befunge-93 is pretty easy to implement in C, although it doesn't have multiple-char commands like you requested (Funge-98's a lot harder)
20:28:05 <AnMaster> otherwise I would never have done it
20:28:25 <tusho> the important thing was that it was propietarty and share ware, of course.
20:28:34 <ais523> AnMaster: I once spent several days, possibly weeks, writing stone-paper-scissors for Age of Mythology
20:28:46 <AnMaster> ais523, well this was called "blades of avernum"
20:28:52 <AnMaster> ais523, and what is "Age of Mythology"?
20:28:56 <ais523> it was ridiculously overengineered
20:29:14 <ais523> AnMaster: real-time strategy game in the Age of Empires game, it had its own language for writing map generators in
20:29:16 <AnMaster> asiekierka, what the heck is MZX?
20:29:30 <ais523> and I wrote one which always generated the same map which was a multiple-player stone-paper-scissors with AI and scoring and everything
20:29:46 <AnMaster> asiekierka, what has it got to do with esoteric programming?
20:29:51 <ais523> s/the second occurence of 'game' two messages ago/line/
20:31:15 <ais523> why the multichar commands, then? Does it have its own internal parser?
20:31:32 <ais523> besides, although INTERCAL has multichar commands its expression syntax is weird and hard to parse
20:31:48 <asiekierka> It has a multichar programming language, ROBOTIC.
20:31:52 <AnMaster> oh yes I'd hate to parse INTERCAL
20:31:58 <ais523> portable INTERCAL expressions can't even easily be sent over IRC, which is why a two whole alternative syntaxes for them were invented
20:32:05 <asiekierka> But it's bad by today's standards; has a thousand hacks to make it still work
20:32:11 <AnMaster> ais523, intercal *looks* easy to parse at a first glance, but it turns out it isn't
20:32:26 <ais523> yes, that's it, in fact C-INTERCAL redefines getchar I think to make it work
20:32:42 <ais523> there are saner ways to do it but that's what it did when I first started tinkering with it and I haven't changed it
20:33:04 <AnMaster> what does it change in it's definition?
20:33:22 <ais523> well, apart from getting the reimplemented getchar to use read(2) because it was using stdio before and on some systems that was implemented in terms of getchar...
20:33:37 <ais523> AnMaster: I think it's to change the literal backspaces into something that lex can handle and splitting up ! into '.
20:33:45 <tusho> ais523: you know i'm actually warming to the gpl
20:33:54 <AnMaster> ais523, oh I see, why the split of !?
20:33:55 <ais523> lex doesn't like returning two tokens from one char
20:34:04 <ais523> AnMaster: because ! is an abbreviation for '. in INTERCAL
20:34:14 <AnMaster> ais523, couldn't that be done at lex level?
20:34:16 <ais523> and '. is very common, it's sort of like ($ in Perl
20:34:26 <ais523> AnMaster: it probably should be, can't be done sanely at Bison level
20:34:26 <AnMaster> ais523, so what is ($ in perl?
20:34:37 <ais523> you see the $ is part of a different token
20:34:57 <ais523> a similar INTERCAL expression would be !1 ~ .2'
20:35:01 <ais523> although ~ isn't addition
20:35:20 <ais523> so the expression is '.1 ~ .2'
20:35:31 <ais523> that means .1 select .2 where .1 and .2 are variable names
20:35:36 <ais523> AnMaster: parens, just undirected
20:35:43 <ais523> it's normally unambiguous
20:35:54 <AnMaster> ais523, then ! seems just stupid to me
20:36:00 <AnMaster> would make it harder to read the code
20:36:09 <ais523> AnMaster: yes, that is the point
20:36:11 <asiekierka> I wonder if there is a possibility to do a language looking like sudoku
20:36:18 <ais523> for a moment I thought you'd missed the point of INTERCAL
20:36:28 <AnMaster> ais523, I was just being sarcastic
20:36:29 <ais523> asiekierka: for a while I tried to figure out how to actually make Sudoku into a TC lang, but failed
20:36:48 <ais523> AnMaster: INTERCAL is all about being arbitrary for no reason
20:36:58 <ais523> asiekierka: allow grids which weren't necessarily a 9x9 square
20:37:08 <tusho> ais523: maybe AnMaster is an esolan
20:37:08 <ais523> but still required 1-9 in each row, column and box
20:37:13 <tusho> he's just the exact opposite of INTERCAL...
20:37:17 <ais523> just they would have lots of filled-in spaces
20:37:24 <AnMaster> asiekierka, http://www.digitalmzx.net lacks something very important
20:37:30 <AnMaster> an introduction to what the hell it is
20:37:33 <ais523> tusho: the exact opposite of INTERCAL would be a neat, elegant and usual lang which for some reason had no assignment statement
20:37:38 <tusho> AnMaster: a game creation system
20:37:43 <tusho> AnMaster: presumably it's scriptable
20:37:46 <ais523> s/usual/usable/, although I like usual too
20:37:46 <AnMaster> tusho, yes but some info, so you get a feel for it
20:37:48 <tusho> AnMaster: so he wants to implement an esolang in it
20:37:52 <ais523> after all INTERCAL is certainly unusual
20:37:53 <tusho> and that looks like a fansite
20:37:53 <AnMaster> asiekierka, not like I care enough
20:37:56 <tusho> so are you surprise
20:38:03 <tusho> ais523: nah, still an -esolang-
20:38:07 <tusho> just the antithesis of INTERCAL
20:38:18 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined.
20:38:35 <AnMaster> <ais523> tusho: the exact opposite of INTERCAL would be a neat, elegant and usual lang which for some reason had no assignment statement <-- something functional maybe?
20:38:59 <AnMaster> ais523, doesn't it have assignments?
20:39:01 <ais523> I think it would be a popular and elegant language
20:39:07 <tusho> you can bind things
20:39:09 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | do you think an infinite loop would be trivial in qq by the way?.
20:39:13 <ais523> it has something that looks like an assignment but turns out not to be
20:39:15 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | I'd like to see an apple-tree implementation of Life. It would be kind of appropriate..
20:39:31 <tusho> that's what haskell is
20:39:36 <tusho> it's not assignment though.
20:39:37 <ais523> ah, optbot is alluding to lament's famous BORAOAS comment
20:39:37 <optbot> ais523: in fact, several of TD's things are art
20:39:40 <AnMaster> tusho, well I know a tiny bit of erlang
20:39:40 <tusho> it's just scoped binding
20:39:50 <AnMaster> I planned to try to learn erlang at some point
20:40:01 <ais523> for a moment I was just wondering why optbot seemed to be out of context...
20:40:01 <optbot> ais523: complex isn't too hard to type... considering how not-quite-so-often it'll be used.
20:40:04 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:40:14 <ais523> although I did figure it eventually
20:40:17 <AnMaster> <ais523> ah, optbot is alluding to lament's famous BORAOAS comment <--??
20:40:17 <optbot> AnMaster: no, it isn't
20:40:31 <ais523> AnMaster: "Even a box of rotten apples on a string is Turing-complete"
20:40:49 <tusho> AnMaster: READING COMPREHENSION
20:40:52 <tusho> HE JUST MENTIONED IT
20:40:58 <tusho> ON THE LINE THAT YOU ASKED!
20:41:01 <AnMaster> tusho, I had a very busy day, I'm tired
20:41:15 <tusho> AnMaster: the phrase
20:41:22 <ais523> "Box Of Rotten Apples On A String"
20:42:23 <ais523> ok, that almost made sense...
20:42:34 <tusho> optbot: let's chat
20:42:34 <optbot> tusho: Do you feel strongly about discussing such things ?
20:42:40 <tusho> optbot: are you ELIZA?...
20:42:41 <optbot> tusho: That's Plof 2, man.
20:42:46 <tusho> optbot: ELIZA in Plof 2? Cool.
20:42:48 <ais523> tusho: that's exactly what I thought
20:42:49 <AnMaster> tusho, was just thinking the same :P
20:43:02 <tusho> AnMaster: gregorr's langauge
20:43:04 <ais523> although I remember a few months ago we had several people piping ELIZA into the channel so that's not impossible
20:43:32 <tusho> Plof3 is based on PSL
20:43:32 <AnMaster> well the interpreter/compiler/whatever was
20:43:34 <tusho> (plof stack language)
20:43:39 <tusho> basically the syntax can change at runtime
20:43:46 <tusho> and plof3 is just the default syntax
20:43:48 <AnMaster> tusho, hey that sounds like that lang of ais523
20:44:04 <AnMaster> I want to see a feather interpreter
20:44:09 <AnMaster> I bet you can't make a compiler for it
20:44:17 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
20:44:18 <ais523> AnMaster: Feather is sufficiently general that after a while everything seems like "that sounds like Feather", it takes over your brain
20:44:22 <tusho> but it'd just be a befunge one
20:44:32 <tusho> AnMaster: more than that
20:44:32 <AnMaster> I think you could do that for befunge
20:44:36 <tusho> it'd have to be completely an interp
20:44:48 <ais523> AnMaster: you absolutely need to bundle the source code with Feather, it's possible to prove it
20:44:52 <AnMaster> tusho, well.. you could probably JIT befunge quite well
20:45:06 <ais523> because you could end up re-parsing the program as cat
20:45:12 <ais523> which would dump the source code to stdout
20:45:18 <AnMaster> ais523, I don't know enough about feather really
20:45:24 <ais523> or you could retroactively run the program under a debugger, or something like that
20:45:28 <ais523> AnMaster: the problem is, neither do I
20:45:40 <AnMaster> ais523, you need to write up some damn specs then
20:45:47 <ais523> AnMaster: it's kind of hard to get my head around
20:45:47 <AnMaster> ais523, give us hello world in feather!
20:45:52 <ais523> and I've tried writing specs but they were wrong
20:45:52 <tusho> AnMaster: it's not that trivial
20:45:54 <tusho> feather is everything
20:45:56 <tusho> you can make it brainfuck
20:46:01 <tusho> you can make it the opposite of feather
20:46:05 <tusho> you can make it so that it never was feather
20:46:13 <tusho> and the default language is a bit mindfucking anyway
20:46:19 <tusho> a spec would be way more work than just implementing it
20:46:20 <ais523> AnMaster: you can retroactively modify anything, including which language the program was running under
20:46:21 <tusho> then speccing that
20:46:25 <AnMaster> 1) is it possible to implement at all?
20:46:33 <ais523> AnMaster: I think it is, but I want to implement it to be sure
20:46:41 <tusho> only tangentially related
20:46:44 <tusho> (self-modifications)
20:46:46 <ais523> AnMaster: no, although a Feathernomic would be awesome
20:46:49 <tusho> and nomics don't do travelling in time
20:46:56 <ais523> it's sort of self-modifying to the extreme
20:47:07 <ais523> self-modifying in both time and space
20:47:11 <tusho> ais523: you should make the timeline first class
20:47:12 <AnMaster> ais523, well you need to implement it
20:47:16 <tusho> so you can just poke around it
20:47:21 <ais523> I really want to implement Feather
20:47:32 <AnMaster> ais523, I'm not sure it is feasible
20:47:34 <tusho> ais523: let's implement feather starting tomorrow
20:47:34 <ais523> I'll start by implementing Protofeather, I think, which was a lang I invented to write a Feather interp in
20:47:38 <ais523> AnMaster: no, it isn't feasible
20:47:41 <tusho> that's going nowhere
20:47:54 <tusho> ais523: maybe a collaborative text editor would help us
20:47:54 <ais523> AnMaster: I would use a functional lang with call/cc
20:48:17 <ais523> tusho: well I installed gobby like you asked
20:48:21 <tusho> AnMaster: multiparadigm
20:48:26 <tusho> ais523: i shall get gobby working
20:48:48 <tusho> AnMaster: continuations
20:49:03 <tusho> call with current continuation
20:49:13 <tusho> it passes the continuation with the function it gets
20:49:14 <AnMaster> ooh. that means eval basically?
20:49:23 <ais523> basically it calls a function
20:49:23 <tusho> ais523: oh and I think TDD or BDD might help a _lot_ with this
20:49:27 <ais523> which is nothing very surprising
20:49:32 <ais523> but it gives it a continuation as its argument
20:49:32 <tusho> feather confuses us enough, it'd be nice to have some base cases
20:49:38 <tusho> so that we know exactly "what to implement next"
20:49:50 <ais523> so basically it generates a continuation and passes it to a function as an argument
20:50:00 <ais523> Feather's basic operation is reasonably easy to write in terms of call/cc
20:50:01 <AnMaster> ais523, well what is the basic syntax of non-modified feather?
20:50:06 -!- asiekierka has joined.
20:50:29 <ais523> AnMaster: it looks vaguely like Smalltalk
20:50:43 <ais523> I invented Feather after thinking about Smalltalk for a while
20:51:10 <AnMaster> I'm unable to get a "feel" for what it is
20:51:23 <ais523> I have an incorrect attempt at a spec with some examples in somewhere
20:51:26 <ais523> which I could try pasting
20:51:31 <ais523> it's wrong but may give you ideas
20:51:52 -!- MikeRiley has joined.
20:52:00 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, hi! did you get my email?
20:52:05 <optbot> asiekierka: It would be crazy for it not to.
20:52:07 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, also Deewiant had a question too
20:52:27 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | even though i know the concepts somewhat.
20:52:32 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | no no no.
20:52:37 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, yes document what the default for REXP is
20:52:41 <AnMaster> What is PCRE????? I have never heard of it...
20:52:41 <ais523> actually, the spec's so misleading that I won't post it
20:52:47 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | if you prefer to think that way.
20:52:48 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, that is perl compatbile regex
20:52:51 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | Probably :P.
20:52:55 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | sounds to me like someone who's eager but doesn't really understand IRC.
20:53:04 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, PCRE Perl Compatible Regular Expression, a library
20:53:06 <ais523> basically you can send a message to an object by writing object message
20:53:14 <MikeRiley> yes, will document what the basic regex that should be supported is...
20:53:20 <ais523> if you need to change precedence, the [] is like () in most langs
20:53:29 <ais523> a lambda is [ arg1 arg2 | code ]
20:53:39 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, and yes I wondered what the heck you were planning to write that needed IPC stuff
20:54:00 <MikeRiley> never know!!! eheheheheheeh but would like it just in case i ever need it!!! eheheheehheeh
20:54:36 <MikeRiley> you should seem my FRPC one.....another one that chances are nobody would ever use,,,,but will not stop me from implementing it...
20:55:04 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, as for tests yes, I don't think I will implement stuff unless there is some sort of test suite
20:55:32 <MikeRiley> there is one for DATE now....if you have a particular order that you would be interested in implementing,,,i could write those test scripts first....
20:55:40 <MikeRiley> FRPC - Funge Remote Procedure Call....
20:55:44 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, not found on http://www.elf-emulation.com/funge/rcfunge_manual.html (FRPC)
20:56:00 <MikeRiley> that is because it is still in the formulation stage,,,,
20:56:10 <AnMaster> DATE wasn't there two days ago I think
20:56:30 <MikeRiley> essentially it allows an IP in a running funge environment to remotely execute a funge function within a totally separate environemtn....
20:56:40 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, well I have reserved the name CFFI btw, I haven't yet finished specs as I'm not sure what is feasible to implement
20:56:48 <MikeRiley> would be similar to MACR but more elaborite,,,again would execute in a single tick
20:56:52 <AnMaster> to call any function in any library
20:57:32 <AnMaster> but I have not yet come up with a working and usable interface
20:57:54 <asiekierka> I'd like to make an esoteric language called Cake. and it's a lie.
20:57:56 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, does it handle leap seconds?
20:58:19 <MikeRiley> no....DATE is just simple date functions based upon julian day calculations...
20:58:21 <AnMaster> asiekierka, huh? sounds like a reference to something, but I got no clue what?
20:58:39 <tusho> please get rid of your rock...
20:58:44 <tusho> you're too big to hide under it
20:58:46 <asiekierka> yes, i have a portal obsession i think
20:59:01 <tusho> in it, the cake is a lie.
20:59:10 <tusho> it is part of the game plot.
20:59:17 <tusho> cake is promised by glados throughout the game
20:59:22 <tusho> and near the end you find out that it is a lie
20:59:52 <ais523> tusho: not exactly, AFAIR there's just a wall with "the cake is a lie" spraypainted onto it
21:00:01 <ais523> although I haven't played the game so I'm not sure
21:00:01 <tusho> technically it isn't a lie
21:00:06 <ais523> so maybe the wall, rather than the cake, is a lie?
21:00:10 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, hrrm I may implement DATE, have still to track down that elusive t bug
21:00:13 <tusho> (at the end of the final cutscene there is cake.)
21:00:24 <tusho> but that's after you destroy glados
21:00:32 <tusho> so, obviously, *glados'* promise was a lie
21:00:38 <tusho> (I haven't actually played the game, hah)
21:00:58 <MikeRiley> AnMaster: ok will send you the DATE test program
21:01:00 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, I have to do that before implementing any more fingerprints I decided
21:01:06 <ais523> MikeRiley: does it work under sdate?
21:01:17 <ais523> I tried cfunge under sdate and it gave the right year but the wrong month
21:01:27 <tusho> ais523: those pesky posix_time functinos
21:01:29 <ais523> apparently due to the way the date's packed into integers
21:01:37 <ais523> tusho: stop it, this meme is no longer funny
21:01:49 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, mycology says "a b" takes more than 5 ticks, I checked and it doesn't, but compared to ccbi the threads are not in the places they should be before
21:01:56 <AnMaster> so there is a desync happening at some time
21:02:00 <tusho> ais523: yes but if a no-longer-funny meme lasts for ages and ages it becomes hilarious again
21:02:05 <tusho> or should I say posix_hilarious
21:02:25 <AnMaster> <ais523> I tried cfunge under sdate and it gave the right year but the wrong month <-- which I explained isn't odd
21:02:27 <ais523> tusho: I have such memes as inside jokes elsewhere, the point is that it only becomes hilarious if it was never funny to start with
21:02:33 <MikeRiley> ok AnMaster,,,DATE test program is emailed....
21:02:36 <ais523> AnMaster: yes, I understand the explanation
21:02:41 <ais523> I was just wondering whether DATE would work
21:02:42 <AnMaster> ais523, becuase of the way funge encodes dates in y
21:02:50 <MikeRiley> hmmmmmm on the "a b" one.....mine works....
21:03:03 <AnMaster> ais523, and well I don't think anyone but you cares about that, and it is not something I'm likely to test
21:03:09 <tusho> ais523: actually if you wait twice as long once-funny ones return too
21:03:16 <ais523> AnMaster: well, /someone/ wrote sdate
21:03:21 <tusho> speaking of which, ALL YOUR POSIX_ ARE BELONG TO US
21:03:31 <ais523> tusho: well that meme never stopped being funny
21:03:32 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, yes well I checked and it *does* take the right number of ticks in cfunge, but the desync happens before
21:03:54 <asiekierka> I am bored. Any ideas to do on pencil and paper?
21:04:00 <AnMaster> that is one of the better memes
21:04:21 <asiekierka> any esolangs you can do on pencil&paper?
21:04:36 <tusho> ( http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ate_my_balls )
21:05:23 <AnMaster> asiekierka, hrrm.... befunge you could do on a grid by hand I guess
21:05:37 <MikeRiley> anmaster: is it in the space compression code??? that is where mine was with that one....
21:05:41 <asiekierka> You could make a pencil&paper implementation of whirl
21:05:52 <ais523> asiekierka: BF's pretty easy even on pencil and paper
21:05:56 <tusho> asiekierka: you could implement p&p anything
21:05:56 <ais523> sometimes you can even run it in your head
21:05:57 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, I'm not sure where it happens
21:06:05 <ais523> also I find Befunge in my head to not be too hard usually
21:06:05 <MikeRiley> hmmmmm how does mycology actually test that function??
21:06:13 <ais523> because the operators are hard to do mentally
21:06:29 <ais523> even the CAPTCHA on the CLC-INTERCAL website I often have to load up intercalc to solve
21:06:33 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, I plan to do a binary search based on tick count compared to the first t (can't do it absolute as y testing will differ) to find where ccbi and cfunge starts to differ
21:06:35 <ais523> because I mess up when doing it in my head
21:06:36 <tusho> stack based languages are really easy to do in your head
21:06:39 <tusho> if they use high level enough combinators
21:06:52 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, using ccbi debugger and the .gdbinit that comes with cfunge
21:07:46 <asiekierka> I wonder what functions could a pencil&paper programming language have
21:07:49 <tusho> forth doesn't have high-level combinators
21:08:14 <AnMaster> asiekierka, it should be easy to do befunge on that
21:08:36 <AnMaster> you need a marker, a paper with a grid, a pencil and some way to remove pencil marks to change them
21:08:38 -!- tusho has quit ("Bye!").
21:08:44 <AnMaster> also a stack tracker of some kind
21:08:45 <MikeRiley> anmaster: of the new fingerprints, which ones do you want to implement, then i will write those test scripts before the others...
21:08:49 <ais523> tusho: wow, that was abrupt
21:08:50 -!- tusho has joined.
21:08:54 <optbot> ais523: minimum space as in O(1) spae
21:08:58 <asiekierka> What about something using ONLY pencil, eraser and paper
21:09:18 <ais523> asiekierka: maybe something special could happen if you wore a hole in the page?
21:09:18 <oklopol> something like a reversible language or anything without lost information might be nice on paper, as you don't wanna erase too much
21:09:24 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, well LONG and FING definitely
21:09:25 <tusho> ais523: it runs on eso-std.org
21:09:27 <tusho> that's how it changed the topic last night
21:09:33 <ais523> tusho: why doesn't opt-bot respond to /msg?
21:09:36 <ais523> tusho: why doesn't optbot respond to /msg?
21:09:36 <optbot> ais523: Uh... immibis, you should'nt do that
21:09:37 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, maybe EXEC, 3DSP too
21:09:38 <tusho> ais523: why should it
21:09:55 <tusho> ais523: uh i'd tell you to read the source but it has my password in it
21:09:57 <ais523> tusho: many bots do so you can mess with them without flooding the channel
21:10:06 <ais523> tusho: why not optbot's password?
21:10:14 <tusho> haha, that was good optbot
21:10:14 <optbot> tusho: guess what, they just launched the new site
21:10:15 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, and where did you put the DATE test?
21:10:16 <ais523> optbot: that won't be a very secure password then
21:10:34 <asiekierka> Making a hole on the instruction point will remove the space forever
21:10:43 <tusho> ais523: anyway, i'm lazy and stupid and I picked one password and used it everywhere for like years
21:10:48 <tusho> and i cba to go and change everything
21:11:01 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, anyway I had a very busy day so going to sleep soon, probably on the keyboard if I don't relocate myself to the local sleeping facility soon ;P
21:11:08 <asiekierka> you can just make holes in order to make bits
21:11:12 <ais523> tusho: ok, I generally have different passwords for things other people might be able to see
21:11:23 <MikeRiley> let me know if you have any furhter questions on those fingerprints....
21:11:31 <MikeRiley> will email you the test scripts as i complete them...
21:12:03 <tusho> ais523: I want to use 1password eventually
21:12:13 <tusho> it lets you use one password but for each site generates a long, random one
21:12:16 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, nice, you should put them up on some website too IMO
21:12:18 <tusho> and lets you also sync it everywhere
21:12:20 <ais523> tusho: that isn't a very secure password, although it's probably marginally more secure than password1
21:12:23 <asiekierka> Any single-player puzzle games you can play on paper?
21:12:25 <tusho> (so that you're not tied just to that app)
21:12:28 <tusho> (it uses os x's keychain)
21:12:33 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, would be very useful for everyone who wants to implement it
21:12:37 <tusho> ais523: oh, thanks for reading my password
21:12:49 <ais523> btw I finally turned off hunter2 mode over here
21:12:50 <AnMaster> asiekierka, hm you need to remove strips and such
21:12:55 <ais523> it was causing too much confusion
21:12:56 <AnMaster> can't really see it done on paper
21:13:00 <tusho> ais523: would you like to ghost me for the symbolism?
21:13:05 <ais523> I'll just use normal asterisks if I ever turn it back on again?
21:13:14 <tusho> optbot: should ais ghost me
21:13:15 <optbot> tusho: but having the file that's needed rmd at the end of the step
21:13:16 <tusho> optbot: should ais ghost me
21:13:18 <tusho> optbot: should ais ghost me
21:13:18 <optbot> tusho: Which is the boot sector and the partition table.
21:13:19 <tusho> optbot: should ais ghost me
21:13:19 <optbot> tusho: it's called "emacs"
21:13:20 <tusho> optbot: should ais ghost me
21:13:22 <tusho> optbot: should ais ghost me
21:13:22 <optbot> tusho: it's just identify password
21:13:31 <ais523> ok that last one was appropriate
21:13:32 <optbot> tusho: this_is_a_command; "This is a literal string". this ~ " is a string with variables and " ~ commands() ~ " being parsed."
21:13:32 <MikeRiley> yes, i will put all the test scripts on my funge website...
21:13:40 <MikeRiley> separate from the Rc/Funge-98 distribution...
21:13:47 <asiekierka> Is there a 1-player puzzle game for pencil&paper, then?
21:14:10 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, the cfunge repo contains some tests and some examples, and since I just export for releases they contain it too
21:14:16 <ais523> although you'll have to figure out some way to make the blocks move yourself
21:14:41 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, hope some of http://bzr.kuonet.org/cfunge/trunk/files/337?file_id=tests-20080312224933-r7p428lop2j37r0o-1 are useful to you
21:14:43 <ais523> asiekierka: Sudoku would be one sane example, anyway
21:14:48 <MikeRiley> my dev directory has all kinds of test programs,,,,but most of them have very cryptic output....so not too good for general consumption...
21:15:18 <tusho> writing concatenative code is better than soduku
21:15:34 <tusho> it's all about continually shortening and splitting it and then tidying it off
21:15:37 <tusho> it's a game, really
21:16:17 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, well mine got descriptive text at the end
21:16:17 <asiekierka> also, no tetris, i have tetris, picross and sudoku on my ds already
21:16:36 <ais523> asiekierka: well there's a game I made up in my head several weeks ago which is actually quite difficult
21:16:45 <MikeRiley> i like the way mycology does them,,,so will redo all my test programs to be similar...
21:17:01 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, for example http://bzr.kuonet.org/cfunge/trunk/annotate/337?file_id=concurrentquit.b98-20080330095205-t1xqar6x4mwzwum0-1 got two possible outputs: quit, or segfault ;)
21:17:05 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, may be worth trying it
21:17:25 <ais523> given a range of non-negative integers (say 0-13), find the smallest subset of those integers such that each integer in the large set is the difference between two integers in the small set
21:17:28 <AnMaster> actually it will print good a few times
21:18:43 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, actually that isn't a valid download link, it points to a version control annotated copy
21:18:50 <MikeRiley> got 4 goods and then a normal program end...
21:19:10 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, the other ones in http://bzr.kuonet.org/cfunge/trunk/files/337?file_id=tests-20080312224933-r7p428lop2j37r0o-1 are also worth trying
21:19:12 <MikeRiley> yeah,,,,used the download link to grab the file...
21:19:33 <AnMaster> most got comments explaining what should happen
21:20:06 <AnMaster> C means correct most of the time and W means wrong, or it prints more like GOOD/BAD, or it just doesn't print anything, *sometimes it got a comment in it*
21:20:07 <MikeRiley> ok,,,,will give all of them a try...
21:20:41 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, the ones called *.b108 will probably not work as expected in RC/Funge
21:20:56 <MikeRiley> probably not....i have implemented some of 108,,,,but not 100% yet...
21:21:07 <AnMaster> well 108 is still not a fixed standard
21:21:15 <AnMaster> so any support currently is for some draft
21:21:20 <MikeRiley> things like reflection for k u ( ) and such...
21:21:38 <MikeRiley> and the k functionality (minus the nested)
21:21:55 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, yep also likely to stay, with the exception of that trinary funge stuff which may not work out well in other parts
21:22:14 <AnMaster> it's certainly possible to do such a funge but I don't think it can be part of the standard really
21:22:24 <MikeRiley> any idea when you will have a standard that is relatively set??
21:22:48 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, hard to say, need to get input from C. Pressy too on the final draft
21:22:56 <AnMaster> and I like input from you and Deewiant
21:23:05 <AnMaster> and no cfunge doesn't do all the 108 stuff yet either
21:23:14 <MikeRiley> other than the new fingerprint method....everything else seemed reasonable....
21:23:17 -!- asiekierka has quit.
21:23:23 <MikeRiley> except nested k,,,do not really see the point in it....
21:23:27 <ais523> I'd like to have a look through it too at some point
21:23:34 <ais523> MikeRiley: it's pointless but still needs to be specified
21:23:39 <AnMaster> ais523, rage.kuonet.org/~anmaster/funge108/
21:23:50 <ais523> AnMaster: how near-finished is it?
21:23:54 <MikeRiley> can understand specified....just see it as pointless...
21:23:57 <AnMaster> http://rage.kuonet.org/~anmaster/funge-108/
21:24:08 <AnMaster> ais523, some parts are pretty finished, other parts aren't
21:24:09 -!- psygnisfive has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
21:24:15 <ais523> I may have to get tusho to finish making ESO usable in a hurry
21:24:20 <MikeRiley> from the spec tho...seems like 0 iterations is not possible??? only 1 up???
21:24:22 -!- psygnisfive has joined.
21:24:36 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, well I don't like UNDEF, and k was *really* underdefined in 98
21:24:44 <AnMaster> I think the k part is over a page now isn't it?
21:24:49 <MikeRiley> i agree there,,,,k was very problematic in 98...
21:25:13 <AnMaster> it basically works the way CCBI implemented it
21:25:35 <MikeRiley> well,,,,cannot remember quite the example....but if you had something like: 111122kk5 sounded like from the spec you will get 5 5s???
21:25:40 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, anyway iterate-iterate.b108 and iterate-iterate2.b108 are both about nested k
21:25:45 <MikeRiley> since the skip skips the k and would land on the 5....
21:26:05 <MikeRiley> so would not 00kk5 still end up on the 5????
21:26:21 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, and not sure about that, but basically remember on the second iteration of the inner k you would pop the iteration count again, which would mean you popped a 5 you pushed the first time
21:26:45 <MikeRiley> yes,,,see what you mean,,,should have used something other than something that pushed onto the stack,,,
21:27:36 <MikeRiley> i almost would have defined nested k as an error,,,and made it reflect...
21:27:41 <AnMaster> that would not execute the second k
21:28:00 <ais523> AnMaster: error in the Funge-space diagram, 32-bit integers go down to -2147483648 as you say but up to only 2147483648
21:28:03 <ais523> AnMaster: error in the Funge-space diagram, 32-bit integers go down to -2147483648 as you say but up to only 2147483647
21:28:05 <MikeRiley> i think nested k is very problematic....
21:28:11 <ais523> sorry, corrected version, I made the same mistake as you first time...
21:28:44 <AnMaster> ais523, I copied from the diagram from Funge-108 but remade it in inkscape, it was ASCII art in 98
21:28:45 <MikeRiley> if it did something useful, i could see having it,,,,but without a real use for it.....complicates the k code for no real reason...
21:28:53 <AnMaster> ais523, so what is the error? you confused me
21:29:07 <ais523> AnMaster: range of 32-bit int, it only goes up to 2147483647
21:29:18 <tusho> [21:24:16] <ais523> I may have to get tusho to finish making ESO usable in a hurry
21:29:20 <ais523> and your funge-space diagram lists a column 2147483648
21:29:26 <tusho> i am not particularly inclined to accept funge-108 as an eso spec
21:29:35 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, and well reflect on nested k seems worse
21:29:37 <ais523> not in your framework of choice?
21:29:41 <tusho> regardless of personal concerns AnMaster has stated that he doesn't want an HTML version or similar
21:29:45 <ais523> it's still worth us looking over
21:29:57 <AnMaster> tusho, I will make a pure text version if you want
21:30:04 <tusho> that'd be worse, actually
21:30:10 <AnMaster> I can export from LyX to text, will need some fixing up of the tables after
21:30:13 <tusho> but yes, I will look it over
21:30:16 <ais523> AnMaster: why not an HTML version, anyway, if what tusho says is correct?
21:30:17 <tusho> but it depends on AnMaster co-operating
21:30:24 <ais523> is it a case of "don't want" or "can't produce easily"
21:30:25 <tusho> and I'm pretty sure he's flat-out stated that he's not changing his format
21:30:25 <AnMaster> ais523, well *I* won't make that
21:30:38 <ais523> ah, that makes sense, but you don't mind if someone else html-converts it
21:30:42 <tusho> ais523: basically - ESO standards should be made in a semantic language
21:30:45 <tusho> LyX is a presentational language
21:30:46 <AnMaster> ais523, sure if it works correctly
21:30:53 <MikeRiley> maybe with nested k,,,,just like <space> and ; cannot be executed,,,maybe k should not be either??
21:30:58 <tusho> we _could_ modify it ourselves, but then it wouldn't be the official version
21:30:58 <AnMaster> tusho, is it? it is all about semantics IMO
21:31:13 <tusho> AnMaster: its certainly not semantic in the way i meant
21:31:17 <MikeRiley> although i do hate having exceptions....at least <space> and ; make sense
21:31:24 <tusho> it is to a degreee, but not in the metadata way that I meant
21:31:27 <ais523> tusho: we can ESO-bless it as a true and accurate conversion
21:31:39 <tusho> ais523: and that'll mean F all if AnMaster points to his version
21:32:00 <tusho> he has stated clearly that the lyx version will be the official one
21:32:04 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, well I implemented the damn nested k in cfunge now and Deewiant thought this was the most sane way to do it (he was against the reflect alternative)
21:32:18 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, btw D in FILE, should it just delete files or also directories?
21:32:24 <MikeRiley> i can certainy implement it too...just seems messy for no reason...
21:32:57 <AnMaster> well my k is very messy because I need to make exceptions when doing threading
21:33:06 <MikeRiley> D in my implementation uses unlink, intended to delete files, no reason why it could not delete subdirs as well
21:33:11 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, just iterate over t or @ XD
21:33:24 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, well I prefer unlink() too
21:33:33 <ais523> tusho: well, if we certify it as being identical to the official version I don't see why AnMaster wouldn't link to it
21:34:08 <MikeRiley> since DIRF already has a directory deletion function....
21:34:08 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, I think it makes sense for FILE to only do files, not directories
21:34:29 <AnMaster> Deewiant was wondering about it
21:34:31 <tusho> ais523: because he's said so
21:34:38 <MikeRiley> in case you cannot tell,,,i am terrible at documentation!!! eheheheheheheheheeheh
21:35:05 <AnMaster> tusho, I said tex version would be a sane official one
21:35:29 <tusho> AnMaster: so if we did all the work for you you would designate ours as the official one?
21:35:33 <AnMaster> but I'm happy to make another version official if it is sane, and correct
21:35:39 <AnMaster> tusho, I would need to read over it
21:35:55 <AnMaster> tusho, anyway I need to finish it first
21:35:56 <tusho> of course, this relies on the actual standard being sane ;)
21:35:59 <tusho> which I hope it will be...
21:36:38 <AnMaster> I printed it out yesterday for proof reading, took it with me as bed time reading
21:36:49 <AnMaster> I guess it was boring or something ;)
21:36:58 <tusho> AnMaster: probably your awful taste in fonts
21:37:14 <AnMaster> tusho, I did select a serif font before printing
21:38:07 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, oh btw run a spell checker on that page with your fingerprints, no offence meant
21:38:18 <AnMaster> but Deewiant did quote some with [sic] iirc
21:38:26 <MikeRiley> no offense taken,,,,i admit that i am a horrible speller!!!!
21:38:37 <tusho> MikeRiley: it's more your grammar,,,that I worry about
21:38:40 <AnMaster> (misspelled communication iirc was one of them)
21:38:51 * AnMaster slaps tusho around with a "got"
21:39:01 * tusho stabs AnMaster in the eye with optbot's help
21:39:02 <optbot> tusho: that's what programmers need
21:39:08 <tusho> optbot: agreed. a good eye-stabbing
21:39:08 <optbot> tusho: even if not about you, but about your comment, which is kinda weird
21:39:16 <tusho> optbot: well, I think his comment warranted it
21:39:16 <optbot> tusho: im assuming the code is correct not the list?
21:39:19 <ais523> hmm... ASCII needs a 'dimension feed' character for Quadrefunge
21:39:37 <tusho> ais523: i'd have expected a LOL from you about that
21:39:40 <ais523> that's less of a movement than formfeed
21:39:41 <tusho> it seemed as funny as the last time at least :P
21:39:43 <AnMaster> anyway if you do more dimensions you should do:
21:39:45 <tusho> although the coherency ended quicker
21:39:55 <ais523> so maybe it should come between newline and formfeed in Quadrefunge
21:40:02 <AnMaster> to allow easy extending to more dimensions
21:40:06 <ais523> AnMaster: how is the dimension delimited
21:40:16 <ais523> hmm... and we should at least mess with device control 1, 2, 3, and 4
21:40:18 <AnMaster> ais523, a number following the vertical tab
21:40:20 <ais523> those chars don't get enough love
21:40:27 <AnMaster> but I guess there should be a newline too
21:40:29 <ais523> AnMaster: how do you tell when the number ends and funge-space begins
21:40:37 <AnMaster> ais523, a newline would make sense
21:41:11 <ais523> still, I doubt anyone will ever program in Quadrefunge, except maybe they will now I've said it
21:41:12 <AnMaster> iirc that is what I and MikeRiley decided some days ago
21:41:21 <ais523> even 3 dimensions is too many really
21:41:33 <tusho> I need to make a system using \n\r
21:41:35 <tusho> just to break everything
21:41:43 <AnMaster> ais523, if someone made a 105-dimension funge then someone would use all 105 dimensions in a hello world
21:41:58 <MikeRiley> eheheheheheheeheheheh probably!!!!!
21:42:02 <ais523> we need Hilbert-Lahey-space Funge
21:42:05 <AnMaster> ais523, anyway I can see some use for a lot of dimensions
21:42:16 <AnMaster> easy to represent binary trees
21:42:31 <MikeRiley> also need instructions tho to move throught all those dimensions...
21:42:45 <ais523> AnMaster: how do you represent a binary tree in Hilbert-Lahey-Funge?
21:42:48 <AnMaster> ais523, how can you do a 3D array in befunge?
21:42:58 <AnMaster> ais523, not sure, but I think it would make it easier
21:43:02 <ais523> AnMaster: multiplicatively
21:43:03 <AnMaster> also what is "Hilbert-Lahey-Funge"
21:43:08 <ais523> muldimensional arrays I can understand
21:43:18 <ais523> AnMaster: hilbert space is a bit like infinite-dimensional cartesian space
21:43:19 <AnMaster> ais523, well not a binary tree maybe
21:43:25 <ais523> and I was just lahifying it
21:43:53 <ais523> but Lahey-space is familiar to all Funge programmers, I hope
21:44:04 <ais523> try checking Wikipedia, it's normally good for looking up that sort of thing
21:44:09 <AnMaster> so if you need a side node you just try the next dimension
21:44:16 <AnMaster> and yes I know what Lahey-space is
21:44:26 <AnMaster> but when I googled once all I found was funge references iirc
21:46:45 <ais523> hmm... apparently it was invented by "Chris Lahey", which turns up quite a few google results but I'm not sure if they're relayed
21:46:53 <ais523> seems to be a common name
21:47:02 <AnMaster> ais523, so it is funge specific then
21:47:36 <AnMaster> ais523, what did you say the range should be for 32-bit int?
21:47:44 * AnMaster is opening the file in inkscape atm
21:47:59 <ais523> AnMaster: the positive value is less positive by one than the negative value is negative
21:48:01 <ais523> if you see what I mean
21:48:17 <AnMaster> ais523, in 2-complement that is?
21:48:27 <ais523> AnMaster: yes, in 1-complement they're both one lower than you have them
21:48:34 <ais523> positive maximum's always an odd number
21:49:16 <AnMaster> what is the reason for this one lower in 2-complement?
21:49:32 <moozilla> i am not the same person as navigator/mooz_
21:49:41 <ais523> AnMaster: because 0 exists
21:49:52 <ais523> then you have 0-127 which is 128 possibilities
21:49:59 <ais523> and -1 to -128 which is the other 128 possibilities
21:50:02 <AnMaster> ais523, will be fixed on next udpate
21:50:04 <ais523> in 1s complement you have two zeros
21:50:16 <ais523> thus it only goes down to -127 as well because you have -0
21:50:40 <AnMaster> ais523, I think two complement is rather arcane ;P
21:51:01 <ais523> AnMaster: yes, but convenient for people
21:51:16 <ais523> because you don't have to distinguish signed/unsigned
21:51:27 <ais523> 1's complement is neater if you know everything is signed, and just as easy to wire up in the hardware
21:51:33 <tusho> chris lahey is probably not real
21:51:35 <AnMaster> ais523, you have to for * and / but not + and - iirc?
21:51:52 <ais523> (2's complement you ignore the carry from the top bit, 1's complement you wrap the top carry as the carry input for the bottom bit)
21:52:10 <ais523> AnMaster: you have to for /, not sure about *
21:52:45 <AnMaster> you can just do them as unsigned right?
21:52:49 <ais523> - and + don't care about signedness with 2's complement
21:53:11 <ais523> although they have different error conditions on overflow according to whether they're signed or unsigned
21:53:23 <ais523> thus the 6502 for instance has signed-overflow and unsigned-overflow condition bits
21:54:17 <ais523> an old-fashioned processor, and the first asm language I ever learnt
21:54:23 <AnMaster> ais523, also doesn't x86 allow overflow in both without complaining iirc?
21:54:30 <MikeRiley> anmaster: your perl test script produces errors in my perl, which perl version does it expect?
21:54:31 <ais523> AnMaster: the 6502 didn't complain either
21:54:46 <AnMaster> BBC Micro, I always wondered, was it related to BBC the broadcasting compay?
21:54:56 <ais523> but you need to know whether there was overflow to chain its 8-bit additions into 16-bit or 32-bit additions
21:55:05 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, "This is perl, v5.8.8 built for x86_64-linux"
21:55:11 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, should be portable iirc
21:55:32 <MikeRiley> most cpus had an overflow flag for doing arbitrarily long math...
21:55:54 <tusho> Acorn did for them
21:56:02 <tusho> it was made for schools
21:56:09 <tusho> bbc provide a lot of multimedia for schools
21:56:27 <MikeRiley> anmaster, here is what i get from running perl.b98:
21:56:28 <MikeRiley> syntax error at -e line 1, near ""Hello world!\n";"
21:56:28 <MikeRiley> syntax error at -e line 1, next char )
21:56:28 <MikeRiley> Execution of -e aborted due to compilation errors.
21:56:31 <ais523> I think BBC Micro was related at least tangentially to the broadcasting company, partly because BBC Micro Mode 7 uses the same terminal-control language as Teletext uses
21:56:35 <ais523> for things like colours and so on
21:56:51 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, I think this may be an issue with your implementation, it just does some basic stuff like printing hello world
21:56:52 <tusho> ais523: it was made by acorn for the bbc
21:57:00 <AnMaster> v "$x=" "' "Hello world!\n" "' "; print $x"0<
21:57:04 <ais523> tusho: that would make sense
21:57:12 <MikeRiley> ok,,,hold on...let me try it with something that i know.....brb
21:57:24 <tusho> why doesn't PERL use 0"gnirts"
21:58:37 <optbot> tusho: I like my number generation algorithm :)
21:58:42 <tusho> optbot: why does that mean i have to wait
21:58:42 <optbot> tusho: and I might agree about the cleverness if I understood that ;)
21:58:49 <optbot> tusho: as indeed was I
21:58:50 <ais523> AnMaster: were you trying to run a Befunge program as Perl?
21:58:53 <tusho> optbot: have you gone mad
21:59:03 <AnMaster> ais523, I was trying to load a string on the stack
21:59:18 <AnMaster> which is why I didn't understand the code
21:59:22 <AnMaster> but the code is correct I think
21:59:26 <tusho> ais523: when are we going to make that strongly-typed, lazy self-rewriting language?
21:59:40 <tusho> (with no control structures apart from its self-rewriting of course)
21:59:40 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, anyway I guess your code does one quote too much in some way?
21:59:44 <MikeRiley> weird,,,wrote a simple test,,,,failed as well,,,,by mycology works,,,,weird.....
21:59:48 <ais523> tusho: after Feather and Underload and Underlambda and all the other stuff we're going to do
21:59:50 <tusho> (but extensible enough that you could implement regular control structures with it)
22:00:01 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, mycology probably doesn't test with quotes in the string to execute
22:00:06 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, so I guess the issue is there
22:00:12 <MikeRiley> checking perl.c ..... maybe there is something odd in there...
22:00:43 <AnMaster> MikeRiley, http://bzr.kuonet.org/cfunge/trunk/annotate/337?file_id=perl.c-20080415234024-e7mizpsvp1v9ole8-3
22:00:59 <tusho> "because it's PERL LOL"
22:01:04 <ais523> tusho: strongly typed rewriting is easy
22:01:11 <tusho> ais523: not in the way I meant it
22:01:13 <ais523> you just rewrite at the parser tree level not at the token level
22:01:14 <AnMaster> tusho, because file descriptor stuff is messy
22:01:23 <tusho> ais523: 'schating :)
22:01:47 <ais523> e.g. arguably OIL's a strongly typed rewriting language, but it rewrites something else not itself, if it rewrote itself it would be more of a rewriting language
22:03:05 -!- kar8nga has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)).
22:03:22 <tusho> is your name intentionally grammatically incorrect
22:03:45 <ais523> tusho: I don't think An is an article in eir nick
22:04:08 <tusho> what is it then :P
22:04:54 <tusho> ais523: by the way, why is yahoo.com alexa #1 but google.com alexa #2?
22:04:58 <tusho> surely google is more popular than yahoo
22:05:05 <tusho> or maybe alexa users are more prone to use yahoo
22:05:26 <ais523> tusho: I think it's partly because google.com is just the search
22:05:33 <ais523> e.g. googlemail.com is a different domain
22:05:40 <ais523> whereas yahoo lump everything under one domain
22:05:41 <tusho> ais523: but mail.google.com is not
22:05:52 <tusho> and you go to mail.google.com
22:05:55 <ais523> ah, ok, so that isn't it
22:06:48 <ais523> ah, google.co.uk is at 23
22:07:02 <tusho> ais523: US users of google should still outway users of yahoo
22:07:09 <tusho> google is, like, the most popular site, ever
22:07:19 <tusho> (due to default homepageness)
22:07:42 <ais523> so I'm not convinced that Google&&US > Yahoo anywhere
22:07:48 <tusho> AnMaster: so you are the master of ... yourself?
22:08:02 <AnMaster> tusho, now stop trying to find hidden meanings in it :P
22:08:02 <MikeRiley> perl module working correctly now....
22:08:08 <tusho> AnMaster: i still don't get it :P
22:08:15 <AnMaster> tusho, I don't get your nick either
22:08:36 <ais523> if it were ais524 it would be even
22:08:51 <AnMaster> well I can guess of the cause of that
22:08:53 <tusho> AnMaster: my name = random pronouncableness that is relatively google-empty
22:09:01 <tusho> AnMaster: ais is his initial
22:09:04 <tusho> its his university name
22:09:06 <ais523> I tried to just /nick 523
22:09:09 <ais523> but it wouldn't let me
22:09:12 <tusho> apparently there have been 522 ais' before him
22:09:26 <ais523> tusho: I use ais523 everywhere since the number 523 was randomly alloted to my username
22:09:29 <tusho> i just told you AnMaster
22:09:39 <ais523> and the number 523 has no reason behind it at all other than an effectively random process
22:09:40 <tusho> there have been 522 people with the initials ais before him
22:09:46 <tusho> so he got ais523, presumably
22:11:29 <optbot> ais523: false, surely true, surely false...
22:11:37 <optbot> tusho: <Deewiant> AnMaster: :-D, not everything 4-char is a Befunge fingerprint ;-)
22:11:39 <ais523> well, that's about the best we can get out of em...
22:11:42 <tusho> well, he mentioned AnMaster
22:12:04 <ais523> tusho: how do you know optbot isn't female?
22:12:04 <optbot> ais523: dvorak kind of suffers from that as well
22:12:13 <tusho> ais523: statistics
22:12:16 <tusho> he repeats what we say
22:12:19 <tusho> we are almost all male
22:12:20 <ais523> wow, Dvorak was really female?
22:12:40 -!- MikeRiley has quit ("Leaving").
22:13:40 <tusho> we need a new topic
22:13:41 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | are anybody here?.
22:14:03 <M0ny> i love this bot :p
22:14:30 <tusho> i'll feel kind of bad when botte is done and optbot merely becomes a plugin of botte...
22:14:38 <tusho> see, even optbot is upset about it
22:14:38 <optbot> tusho: of course, the dollar was much more valuable 6 months ago :-)
22:14:40 <tusho> he doesn't want to fail
22:14:42 <M0ny> useless but... indispensable
22:15:16 <M0ny> optbot, do u think that too ,
22:15:16 <optbot> M0ny: http://koti.mbnet.fi/yiap/
22:15:46 <ais523> optbot: indispensable?
22:15:46 <optbot> ais523: how do you guys pronounce 'Malbolge'?
22:16:03 <optbot> tusho: leave the pointer in the same cell
22:16:12 <optbot> tusho: Well that would explain it.
22:16:15 <optbot> tusho: You can write notes on the tape, and the interpreter would read them with the PC speaker
22:16:23 <ais523> umm... as three syllables, although I can see how it could be pronounced with 2
22:16:38 <M0ny> like Malb-Olge
22:16:59 <ais523> I pronounce it mal-bolg-uh
22:17:22 <ais523> I can see how your pronunciation would work too though
22:17:32 <tusho> how is the layer of hell pronounced
22:17:44 <ais523> I don't know that either
22:17:56 <ais523> I imagine it's pronounced the same way
22:18:05 <tusho> that's probably it
22:18:39 <olsner> malebolge should probable be pronounces in italian though
22:18:53 <olsner> apparently it means something like "the evil ditch"
22:19:17 <M0ny> i say it in french
22:19:37 <M0ny> mal (evil) bol (cup) je (like I)
22:20:56 <ais523> ah, I pronounce it with a hard g but otherwise the same as M0ny
22:21:29 <ais523> optbot certainly seems good at inspiring discussions
22:21:30 <optbot> ais523: because that would be the same as [...]
22:21:38 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
22:21:42 <ais523> ... which would be the same as [.]?
22:21:54 <tusho> I don't think optbot was talking about brainfuck
22:21:54 <optbot> tusho: ifuckinghatetheplatformyouhavetogoonbeforetheroombeforemiketyson
22:22:11 <tusho> optbot: playing IWBTG are we?
22:22:11 <optbot> tusho: I'm adding auto-login support.
22:22:27 <tusho> ais523: I Wanna Be the Guy: The Movie: The Game
22:22:34 <tusho> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/I_Wanna_Be_The_Guy
22:22:46 <ais523> autologin support to Tetris would be an interesting concept
22:22:52 <optbot> ais523: HAI. CAN HAS STDIO? VISIBLE "HAI WORLD!". KTHXBYE.
22:22:53 <tusho> 8-bit style platformer that is designed to be like all the hardest NES games put together, times 500000
22:23:18 -!- jix has quit (Nick collision from services.).
22:23:26 -!- jix has joined.
22:23:29 <ais523> now optbot's imitating AnMaster
22:23:30 <optbot> ais523: I doubt they'll be related to your code
22:23:43 <tusho> psst...optbot... non-portable code
22:24:02 <ais523> jabber's portable though I think, isn't it/
22:24:11 <optbot> ais523: (push number - a second. then any interval, corresponding to the actual number. Then pop - a unison)
22:24:14 <tusho> jabber's protocol is xml
22:24:41 <M0ny> optbot, does aliens exist ?
22:24:41 <optbot> M0ny: You have a valid program you want to compile, yet it can never be compiled
22:25:07 <tusho> that's a rather metaphorical take on that...
22:25:26 <M0ny> he bypass the subject :p
22:25:36 <tusho> nah its just a phiisophical look
22:25:40 <ais523> nah, optbot was just trying to give a tangential example
22:25:47 <optbot> ais523: ::bites oklopol::
22:25:56 <ais523> optbot: ok that's just vicious
22:25:58 <M0ny> optbot, binary
22:26:04 <tusho> ::bites oklopol:: is an augur line
22:26:06 <M0ny> optbot, 01010110100101011010010101
22:26:06 <optbot> M0ny: you know what? i hate you
22:26:07 <ais523> optbot: I got it right first time...
22:26:07 <optbot> ais523: Who was it that thought it would be cruel to bring children into the world because the world would end soon?
22:26:20 <M0ny> ok... thank u optbot -_-
22:26:29 <tusho> [22:25:57] <ais523> optbot: ok that's just vicious
22:26:29 <tusho> [22:25:57] <optbot> ais523: *that
22:26:29 <optbot> tusho: it was part of the original division routine in the system library
22:26:29 <optbot> tusho: i dont know, i cant speak for thousands of people that i'm not.
22:26:55 <ais523> tusho: I should have misspelt that, it would have been truly funny then
22:27:42 <tusho> optbot: say something amusing
22:27:43 <optbot> tusho: "tieto" is "knowledge"
22:27:48 <tusho> optbot: don't say something amusing
22:27:49 <optbot> tusho: converting to s-exprs is basically parsing.
22:27:54 <ais523> optbot: that's insightful, not amusing
22:27:54 <optbot> ais523: convert to a binary church and it's easy
22:28:08 <ais523> optbot: ok, clearly you do insightful better
22:28:48 <ais523> tusho: both church as in religion and church as in church numerals it's an odd concept
22:29:37 <ais523> optbot: then why did you say it?
22:29:37 <optbot> ais523: tusho has just moved the C-INTERCAL repo to http://code.eso-std.org/c-intercal/
22:29:56 <ais523> optbot: ok, thanks for warning me...
22:29:56 <optbot> ais523: Hmm - various sources are saying that it's possible to write/call subroutines in brainfuck without code duplication, using a mangled loop? o.O
22:30:15 <ais523> optbot: ...and it's still there apparently, beyond all belief
22:30:15 <optbot> ais523: You're changing the subject, BUB!
22:30:44 <M0ny> optbot, highlight
22:30:45 <optbot> M0ny: still trying to figure out how I'm going to actually do assigns and ++/--
22:30:56 <tusho> optbot: is highlight an esolang?
22:30:56 <optbot> tusho: So if we pass in a |0>, we get |0+>, if we pass in a |1>, we get |1->, if we pass in a |+>, we get |+0>, and if we pass in |->, we get |-1>.
22:31:03 <tusho> optbot: hmm, odd esolang
22:31:11 <tusho> so optbot - do cool URIs change?
22:31:12 <optbot> tusho: and contains no free names
22:31:14 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | Any more pebble.bfm insanity?.
22:31:18 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | @join.
22:31:18 <ais523> optbot: seems like quantum Brainfuck
22:31:19 <optbot> ais523: why should they? norwegians understand english
22:31:23 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | i understand that completely.
22:31:50 <ais523> optbot: yes but why not just write in norwegian?
22:31:50 <optbot> ais523: because it's a pledge
22:32:14 <tusho> optbot: i guess that's the whole have to see it before agreeing, right? agoran pledges
22:32:15 <optbot> tusho: http://koti.mbnet.fi/yiap/stuff/selfmd5.py
22:32:17 <ais523> tusho: you should get optbot to register in Agora
22:32:17 <optbot> ais523: You said it was
22:32:28 <tusho> ais523: did you tell em e was registered?
22:32:30 <tusho> that's not very nice
22:32:37 <ais523> tusho: optbot: no I didn't
22:32:51 <M0ny> optbot, do u speak french ?
22:32:52 <ais523> optbot: well it didn't reach a-b at any rate
22:33:10 <tusho> ais523: hmm, I'd have to rewrite optbot to read ##nomic instead and send to a-b
22:33:11 <tusho> but that would rock
22:33:15 <optbot> tusho: although the collisions did fail especially with a larger amount of objects
22:33:32 <optbot> ais523: like said, I wouldn't worry about reading Mycology
22:33:38 <M0ny> in wich language is optbot ?
22:33:38 <optbot> M0ny: what are missing of the required f98 features are only negative funge-space, multiple stacks (though quite a bit of that is done) and the fingerprint based loading
22:33:53 <tusho> took like 2 seconds
22:33:58 <ais523> tusho: I think optbot's trying to implement Funge-98, at least based on eir last 2 comments
22:33:59 <optbot> ais523: why? for obfuscation purposes?
22:34:16 <ais523> correction, optbot's trying to translate emself into Funge-98
22:34:16 <optbot> ais523: I think it's possible without maintaining your own function stack in most cases
22:34:34 <tusho> anyway, I hacked up like ten lines to read the logs and choose something from them, then added a socket, then added a thread that sleeps a lot and changes the topic, then added this event handler when it hears something in a channel
22:34:39 <tusho> no special irc libs or whatnot
22:34:44 <tusho> [22:34:17] <ais523> correction, optbot's trying to translate emself into Funge-98
22:34:45 <tusho> [22:34:17] <optbot> ais523: I think it's possible without maintaining your own function stack in most cases
22:34:45 <optbot> tusho: By New including a Zealand if the string is "".
22:35:22 <optbot> M0ny: well all libcs in fact
22:35:29 <tusho> isn't it funny how, after - what - 50 years of AI, the most convincing merely randomly repeats lines
22:36:44 <M0ny> good night all ;)
22:37:04 <ais523> optbot: <tusho> isn't it funny how, after - what - 50 years of AI, the most convincing merely randomly repeats lines
22:37:04 <optbot> ais523: would make it way more esoteric
22:37:13 <ais523> well, optbot doesn't convince me as an AI, but I still think it's useful
22:37:37 <ais523> ok that just completely breaks the illusion
22:37:39 <tusho> it wants to eat you ais523
22:37:51 <optbot> ais523: Which interp? PSOX interpreter? Esolang interpreter?
22:38:06 <M0ny> do u know brainfuck optbot ?
22:38:29 <ais523> M0ny: but BF's only a few lines in Ruby, optbot should be able to learn it easily
22:38:30 <optbot> ais523: ~bf >,[>,]<.[<.]!Hello, world!
22:38:51 <ais523> oh, you've already seen it
22:39:16 <tusho> bf is astoundingly trivial :D
22:39:20 <ais523> ah, that dates back from the time when I tought bsmnt_bot Brainfuck, it's using my syntax
22:39:29 <ais523> it took me ages but in the end I got it down to three lines
22:39:38 <ais523> let me try to find them
22:40:04 <ais523> ~exec self.bf3="def bfarg(x,y):\n p=y.group(2)\n a=y.group(3)+unichr(0)\n o=''\n p=p+'!'\n t=[0]*30000\n i=0\n l=0\n while p[i]!='!':\n if p[i]=='[' and t[l]==0:\n c=1\n while c>0:\n i=i+1\n if p[i]=='[': c=c+1\n if p[i]==']': c=c-1\n if p[i]==']' and t[l]!=0:\n c=1\n while c>0:\n i=i-1\n if p[i]==']': c=c+1\n if p[i]=='[': c=c-1\n"
22:40:04 <ais523> ~exec self.bf4=" if p[i]=='+': t[l]=t[l]+1\n if p[i]=='-': t[l]=t[l]-1\n if p[i]=='<': l=l-1\n if p[i]=='>': l=l+1\n if p[i]=='.': o=o+unichr(t[l])\n if p[i]==',':\n t[l]=ord(a[0])\n a=a[1:]\n i=i+1\nsys.stdout(o)\nself. register_raw(r'\S+ PRIVMSG (\S+) :~bf ([^!]*)!?(.*)',bfarg)"
22:40:04 <ais523> ~exec exec(self.bf3+self.bf4)
22:40:24 <ais523> those three commands teach bsmnt_bot Brainfuck from scratch, which fit with the command optbot repeated above
22:40:24 <optbot> ais523: <GregorR> And punycode's base offset is above ASCII
22:40:37 <ais523> tusho: why the name optbot, anyway?
22:40:38 <optbot> ais523: i think i'm an atheist for the same reason a lot of people are christian....
22:40:56 <ais523> psygnisfive: well, you try writing an indentation-dependent lang like Python over IRC
22:41:15 <ais523> oh dear, it looks like actually it's been mangled somehow
22:41:21 <ais523> the number of spaces after each \n should vary
22:41:36 <psygnisfive> ais, it aint the having to write it over irc
22:41:39 <ais523> and they don't on the file I have
22:41:51 <ais523> still, grepping the logs should find the true source easily enough
22:42:01 <ais523> it seems my copy got word-wrapped somewhere along the line...
22:44:58 <tusho> [[eval code.gsub(/[^+-,.<>\[\]]/,"").gsub("+","tape[ptr]||=0;tape[ptr]+=1;").
22:44:58 <tusho> gsub("-","tape[ptr]||=0;tape[ptr]-=1;").gsub("<","ptr-=1;").
22:44:58 <tusho> gsub(">","ptr+=1").gsub(",","tape[ptr]||=0;tape[ptr]=$stdin.getc;").
22:44:58 <tusho> gsub(".","tape[ptr]||=0;print tape[ptr].chr;").
22:45:08 <tusho> gsub("[","tape[ptr]||=0;until tape[ptr].zero?;").gsub("]", "end;")
22:45:10 <tusho> the tape[ptr]||=0 should go in < and >, whatever
22:45:30 <ais523> tusho: did you just write that?
22:45:40 <ais523> I can easily believe you did, based on how simple BF is
22:45:47 <tusho> i initially started to write an interp but then realised a compiler is far more trivial
22:45:54 <tusho> and I did it in one chain of methods, just 'cause
22:45:57 <ais523> and yes, should go in >, technically speaking there's no need to bother about <
22:46:50 <ais523> hey, has anagolf really never had a BF interp competition?
22:47:11 <ais523> but I can't find one, looking
22:47:15 <ais523> and nothing's running there right now
22:47:17 <tusho> including mandelbrot
22:47:19 <tusho> just because i'm a bastard
22:47:26 <ais523> tusho: make sure the programs are output-only
22:47:27 <tusho> never terminating, I assume
22:47:29 <tusho> since it's a staple
22:47:38 <tusho> I'll make them support ! syntax
22:47:39 <ais523> tusho: I say terminating
22:47:48 <tusho> but I'll do input programs
22:47:48 <ais523> it's not /that/ staple
22:47:59 <ais523> yes, input with ! syntax is probably best
22:48:04 <ais523> and make the output so large that embed is unwise
22:48:45 <tusho> ais523: can you write a hugely-producing brainfuck program
22:48:49 <tusho> but that only outputs printable chrs
22:49:05 <ais523> tusho: it wouldn't be too hard
22:49:07 <tusho> pikhq: ... that isn't easily compressable
22:49:19 <ais523> let's think, making it non-easily-compressable would be harder
22:49:25 <pikhq> tusho: Define 'easily compressable'.
22:49:39 <ais523> pikhq: you can write a program that produces that output in a short space
22:49:39 <tusho> pikhq: Nitpick. Oh, wait.
22:49:50 <ais523> because clearly we want to write that program in BF
22:49:54 <pikhq> Of course, making something not easily compressable for *any* Brainfuck program is non-trivial. . .
22:49:58 <ais523> so the program's going to have to be quite long to avoid easy compressability
22:50:07 <ais523> pikhq: actually, any short program in any lang
22:50:07 <pikhq> Brainfuck itself does not have high entropy.
22:50:28 <tusho> ais523: anagolf handles terminating newlines right
22:50:31 <ais523> the problem is to write a BF program whose output is easier to produce by running the BF program than it is by translating the BF program into some other language
22:50:41 <ais523> tusho: I think so, but it can be a pain to submit the problem correctly if you do that
22:50:54 <ais523> try avoiding terminating newlines and going to the end of your submission and backspacing to make sure
22:51:00 <pikhq> The phrase 'easily compressable' should not be applied to that, though...
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22:51:11 <pikhq> Since Brainfuck is by definition easily compressable.
22:51:26 <ais523> yes, it's easily compressible output we're referring to
22:51:41 <ais523> but the output of any short program is also by definition easily compressible, unless it involves randomness somehow
22:52:05 <tusho> can you run mandelbrot.b for me
22:52:07 <tusho> and pastebin the output
22:52:12 <tusho> i am without a fast bf it seems
22:52:24 <ais523> tusho: do you have a link to mandlebrot.b?
22:52:44 <tusho> http://swapped.cc/bf/files/mandelbrot.b
22:52:48 <tusho> http://swapped.cc/bf/files/random.b
22:52:52 <tusho> rule 110-based random
22:52:52 <ais523> tusho: ah, I rember what happened, codegolf had a BF interp competition, that's probably why anagold didn't
22:53:06 <ais523> tusho: that'll be so embed-worthy unless you generate hugely lots of output with it
22:54:08 <ais523> tusho: it doesn't take input
22:54:17 <tusho> that's for the next test
22:54:49 <ais523> tusho: no way mandlebrot.b will run in anagolf's time limit
22:55:36 <tusho> reasonably-fast, very-long brainfuck program, taking-input that is way easier to execute instead of translate to another lang
22:55:58 <ais523> well you could convert a long text output to BF using a text-to-BF program
22:56:05 <ais523> leading to a long but quickly-executing BF program
22:56:18 <tusho> i'll make it unoptimized
22:56:30 <ais523> make sure at least one program has nested loops, though
22:56:31 <tusho> the constitution :P
22:56:45 <tusho> we need to test input
22:56:56 <ais523> tusho: rot13 with long input?
22:58:03 <ais523> wow, after running mandelbrot.b I had a sudden urge to translate nethack into Brainfuck somehow
22:58:23 <pikhq> The closest I could get is translating an adventure-style game into Brainfuck.
22:58:38 <ais523> well, we really need a C to BF compiler
22:58:48 <pikhq> Gregor Richard's C2BF.
22:58:49 <ais523> I've been toying in my mind with the idea of writing a BF backend to gcc
22:58:54 <ais523> and then compiling Linux for BF
22:59:02 <pikhq> Needs some work, of course.
22:59:14 <ais523> hmm... maybe compiling qemu to BF would be more useful?
22:59:30 <pikhq> Given that qemu can run without an MMU... ;)
22:59:42 <tusho> just something to round it off, I guess
23:00:01 <ais523> tusho: I reckon a short program with lots of repetitive output
23:00:40 <ais523> could be a good idea but quines are really vulnerable to embed tactics
23:00:50 <tusho> how about a narcissus program
23:01:06 <ais523> they're normally easier than quines themselves to write
23:01:27 <tusho> ais523: how about numwarp.b
23:01:39 <tusho> http://www.hevanet.com/cristofd/brainfuck/numwarp.b
23:01:44 <tusho> sample output http://www.hevanet.com/cristofd/brainfuck/numwarp.png
23:02:18 <ais523> now, remember to test all your programs and outputs on a real BF interp first
23:02:33 <ais523> it helps to have an entry prewritten just to test that you got everything right
23:03:49 <tusho> i copied the output directly
23:04:45 <ais523> tusho: do you think that rot13 will run in under a second?
23:04:52 <tusho> ais523: I hope so.
23:05:41 <ais523> have you just tried on a fast BF interp at your end?
23:05:48 <tusho> ais523: that's the one program I didn't test
23:06:06 <ais523> ok looks like my entry will have to be optimised in C then...
23:06:25 <tusho> ais523: bff is the second-fastest interp
23:06:27 <tusho> good luck with that
23:07:50 <pikhq> I've found egobfi8 to be very fast, myself. . .
23:07:50 <ais523> yes, the fastest interp at this end is taking a lot more than a second
23:07:54 <pikhq> Your opinions, tusho?
23:08:07 <tusho> pikhq: It is nowhere near the speed of bff or that one by that guy.
23:08:30 <tusho> pikhq: However, it is more flexible due to its various options.
23:08:32 <tusho> They have their niches.
23:08:49 * pikhq wants to make a JITing brainfuck interpreter now... :p
23:09:24 <tusho> not an interrobang
23:09:28 <tusho> an "exclamation question mark"
23:09:48 <ais523> tusho: people will just end up embedding the rot13
23:09:51 <ais523> try a smaller source text?
23:10:00 <tusho> what do you suggest :P
23:10:36 <ais523> you know, so it's short
23:11:26 <tusho> let's just let them embed it
23:11:35 <ais523> no that defeats the point
23:11:49 <tusho> ais523: embedding is allowed in anagolf
23:12:27 <ais523> but a non-embed solution should be /possible/...
23:12:28 <tusho> i dunno - give me a good program & output and I'll do it
23:12:44 <ais523> nah, I'm trying to see how fast the rot13 thing runs embed
23:12:49 <ais523> I'm getting a rot13 program out of the repos atm
23:12:56 <ais523> and I'm going to see how long it takes on your input
23:13:19 <tusho> i just wanna submit a fixed version
23:13:58 <ais523> that's embed, so it can be fast enough...
23:14:17 <ais523> real0m0.280s when piped to devnull
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23:29:33 <optbot> tusho: i guess i misunderstood you
23:29:36 <optbot> tusho: I liked it a lot too.
23:29:38 <optbot> tusho: a box of apples and a string.
23:29:42 <optbot> tusho: this ubersoft comic sucks
23:29:47 <optbot> tusho: the stats would require some sort of centralised server
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23:43:01 <optbot> tusho: it would help using integers as integers
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