< 1218326520 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tritonio_: wut < 1218326562 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a brainfuck debugger for linux. < 1218326582 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuyqwe@bas2-toronto47-1242435674.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1218326629 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write-only means no debugging :) < 1218326681 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O < 1218326702 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tritonio_: you don't < 1218326706 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just get it right < 1218326707 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1218326754 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some things really are easier to get right from the start than debug post-facto < 1218326787 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how to write a brainfuck program: < 1218326788 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. get idea < 1218326793 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. formalise basic idea of how it could work in head < 1218326800 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3. figure out how you can organize it into a full program < 1218326802 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4. do so < 1218326814 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5. if the program made by steps 4 fails, go to 3 or maybe 2 < 1218326837 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically 1. read problem, 2. think really hard, 3. write down solution < 1218326859 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: so brainfuck = haskell? < 1218326886 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difference lies in the "write down solution" step < 1218326915 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in haskell you get three lines of beauty, in brainfuck you get a steaming heap of brainfuck < 1218327051 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, that's not really about haskell... I think it's a feynman quote < 1218327109 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i prefer the normal way... 1 think of the problem. 2 Write down something you think it works. 3 check it for stupid mistakes. 4. put it in a debbuger and fix the rest of the stupid mistakes... < 1218327122 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already use a nice debugger < 1218327127 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's for windows. < 1218327155 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: http://en.wikiquote.org/wiki/Richard_Feynman#Quotations_about_Feynman < 1218327172 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for some reason, when run through wine, it still has windows decorations thus it doesn't blend with compiz nicely... < 1218327172 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yes, my joke is still valid < 1218327172 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1218327186 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[00:11:51] well i prefer the normal way... 1 think of the problem. 2 Write down something you think it works. 3 check it for stupid mistakes. 4. put it in a debbuger and fix the rest of the stupid mistakes... < 1218327189 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awful way to write BF programs < 1218327190 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :truly awful < 1218327200 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll produce inferior programs & algorithms and take a lot longer to develop < 1218327220 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever it works for me... < 1218327239 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tritonio_: don't you want to produce better BF programs? < 1218327244 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, you can't do your current way on linux. < 1218327248 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not take the oppertunity to improve? < 1218327281 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would they be better? when I write the code usually it has only some spare or missing + or - < 1218327296 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a debugger helps... < 1218327353 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tritonio_: because you think exactly how to write the program < 1218327355 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then write it out < 1218327357 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with comments) < 1218327377 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tritonio_: hopefully, you should have one comment per each runnable-in-your-head "unit" of code < 1218327386 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus, if one of them has an extra/missing + or -, it'll be obvious < 1218327505 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well usually *I* miss some of the obvious mistakes... So I really need the debugger. If there is not one for linux I will make one. < 1218327572 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tritonio_: i just explained how not to miss them < 1218327577 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Normally I don't make huge mistakes, I just miss many small ones... < 1218327586 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you write it out, you have one line being one unit of code (unit: a snippit you can run entirely in your head without problems) < 1218327587 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and comment what it's for < 1218327590 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1218327592 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you review it < 1218327600 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and check that each unit does what its comment says it should < 1218327606 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and voila < 1218327765 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1218327794 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If your current Windows debugger is bfdebug.sf.net, it might work with very little tweaking under Linux with Lazarus. < 1218327802 0 :jix!n=jix@evoke-party-visitors.vipri.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1218327837 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And I've seen at least two Javascript interpreters with at least some debugging facilities, which of course will run anywhere.) < 1218327861 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: do you agree that my method is an easier way to produce bug-free BF though? < 1218327901 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm not completely convinced a debugger is completely useless. Still, your method is what I've used with the few BF programs I've written. < 1218327943 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am using. brainfuck developer fizzie. it's closed source freeware... < 1218327947 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even with all the comments, I think there has been at least one case of a non-obvious missing "<", though. < 1218327970 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially when you work with loops with unbalanced <> < 1218327989 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's always Wine, if you're so inclined. < 1218327990 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs the key is making the chunks small enough < 1218327995 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, a chunk over 10 characters is wrong < 1218327996 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :full stop < 1218328033 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that what I do now. I run it with Wine. but it doesn't come up with the rest of the windows when I use the Scale plugin of compiz or whatever it is called... < 1218328052 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, small chunks don't help all that much if your problem is that there's a "<" chunk missing from a multi-page []. < 1218328158 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs - i think they help fine because you see each one both in isolation and in the bigger picture < 1218328166 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if the comments are sufficient you should know something's up < 1218328241 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip68-110-6-104.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1218328834 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: say hi to calamari < 1218328834 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: is just added hassle. < 1218328837 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: aww < 1218328837 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: 78X41E2 < 1218328839 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot! < 1218328840 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | Hum ho-hum. < 1218328888 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1218328890 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | there are few viruses that can reproduce without destroying their host, though.. < 1218329236 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: (optbot is here to keep the topic fresh. he has a conversation mode because, well, because.) < 1218329236 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: because ruby has to lookup the + method of Integer with every call because one can redefine the + method of Integer < 1218332299 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whooo dvorak keyboard layout! :O < 1218332357 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: enjoy your 2 weeks of pain < 1218332596 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you could see my fetlife profile youd know im a masochist :P < 1218332722 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hey whats life without some adventure ey? < 1218332852 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving..." < 1218332893 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1218335567 0 :dogface!n=Peggy@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1218335608 0 :dogface!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I declare that the date is... oh, October -200, 1993. < 1218335627 0 :dogface!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, let's be more conservative. < 1218335846 0 :dogface!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tentative date that school's out... < 1218335969 0 :dogface!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...is June 5. Add a week and we get June 12, 2009, so if we call that October 1, 1993, today is (/me waits for his computer to unfreeze) < 1218335986 0 :dogface!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The date June 12, 2009 is completely arbitrary, by the way. < 1218336019 0 :dogface!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION continues waiting < 1218336111 0 :dogface!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So let's say this is October -300, 1993. < 1218336124 0 :dogface!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that was arbitrary. Have a nice day. < 1218336136 0 :dogface!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits further < 1218336219 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol what < 1218336228 0 :dogface!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's October -300, 1993. < 1218336267 0 :dogface!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add a leap day 97 times every 146097 days. < 1218336283 0 :dogface!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including the leap days, that is. < 1218336304 0 :dogface!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does evil things < 1218336357 0 :dogface!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, doing evil things would actually be pretty boring. < 1218336373 0 :dogface!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, unless I do it that way... < 1218336392 0 :dogface!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except there is no such way, which is unfortunate.. < 1218336609 0 :dogface!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. phi*sqrt(5) = 2+phi. This sounds like it could be exploited to yield a set of "Fibonacci numbers" that converge to sqrt(2). < 1218336829 0 :dogface!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool, the generating matrix [[1,1][1,0]] has the eigenvalues phi and 1-phi. So what I want is a matrix of integers with eigenvalue sqrt(2). < 1218338067 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1218338820 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1218340882 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1218343507 0 :dogface!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am doing Evil Tuffs. Go me. < 1218344717 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1218345752 0 :dogface!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1218346058 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1218346898 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"lost connection" < 1218347040 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1218347516 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1218350050 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1218350071 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1218350490 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | if you write a program in JavaScript does that make a web browser an OS? < 1218350578 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"You're still in denial. It's easier to lie by saying that I'm lying than to face truth." < 1218350985 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1218351962 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1218353197 0 :Judofyr_!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1218353197 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1218355199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1218355200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1218355676 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@j-105.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1218358871 0 :moozilla!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1218359036 0 :moozilla!n=moozilla@64-91-51-132.dyn.centurytel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1218359435 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1218359435 0 :Judofyr_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1218359463 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1218360793 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1218363214 0 :Mony!n=Asshole@AToulouse-258-1-32-162.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1218363257 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ! < 1218364494 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1218364500 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my idea.... < 1218364501 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gbatemp.net/index.php?s=fa19c87f3dac3a0ff746e073da8daa1b&showtopic=99804 < 1218364506 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BrainFuckDS < 1218364591 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, choose another language. But don't do Befunge, otherwise I won't have anything to do. < 1218364721 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"You're still in denial. It's easier to lie by saying that I'm lying than to face truth." < 1218364783 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :malbolge ? xD < 1218365110 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1218365119 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's certainly easier to implement than to program in. < 1218365281 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1218367794 0 :tusho!n=tusho@91.105.115.23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1218367836 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi tusho < 1218367843 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Mony < 1218367845 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi optbot < 1218367846 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: http://www.encyclopediadramatica.com/%E0%B2%A0_%E0%B2%A0 < 1218367886 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL < 1218367941 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-028-216.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1218368226 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: took a look now and it seems that you indeed haven't changed frontend-protocol based on my comments back on 2008-03-29 < 1218368243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what were those comments < 1218368246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember < 1218368247 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lot of stuff < 1218368249 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is ds the one with a touchscreen? < 1218368250 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you keep IRC logs < 1218368254 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yep < 1218368281 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. and , should be plotting and reading pixels then < 1218368284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes but how long ago? < 1218368285 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hmm, it seems that you had a second draft but it's not published < 1218368286 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2008-03-31 17:33:12 * AnMaster looks for the first (now outdated) draft < 1218368286 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2008-03-31 17:33:16( AnMaster) the second isn't yet redy < 1218368289 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be much more fun < 1218368293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I archive old on cds < 1218368293 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 2008-03-29, like I said < 1218368298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blergh < 1218368302 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what is that, 4.5 months < 1218368304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes looking for said CD < 1218368329 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but if you've got that second draft somewhere it might have the stuff in it < 1218368330 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: dude < 1218368332 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use the tunes.org logs < 1218368337 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're in the bloody topic < 1218368344 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/08.03.29 < 1218368346 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might be easier, yes ;-) < 1218368364 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: maybe he's afraid they've been tampered with < 1218368368 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can he trust them?! < 1218368370 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they have!! < 1218368376 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: what do you think < 1218368376 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I could say "the process providing the 'fs' service" or "the process that's an instance of /foo/bar" or "the process that's using all the CPU time". < 1218368389 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: he's saying what the editor might make him say < 1218368391 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he's been tampered with too < 1218368391 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the edited version < 1218368400 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1218368413 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol; One could also do the "bfvga" thing and map the brainfuck memory array to the 256x192-pixel non-touchscreen display. < 1218368452 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1218368455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2008-03-31 17:33:16( AnMaster) the second isn't yet redy <-- not in said log file that tusho posted < 1218368468 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'32' < 1218368469 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1218368470 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'31' < 1218368471 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'29' < 1218368476 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you do realize that the thing at the beginning of the line is a date/timestamp < 1218368477 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ur gud @ reading comprehension < 1218368492 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here let me babysit you. http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/08.03.31 < 1218368497 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and like tusho said, 29 and 31 aren't the same day. ;-) < 1218368498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah in 31 < 1218368506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1218368534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I'm still kind of sleepy, yes I know it isn't morning any more but that still doesn't help :P < 1218368546 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1218368554 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster < 1218368560 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you writing a language spec < 1218368565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, eh? < 1218368566 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can't make out the difference between "29" and "31" < 1218368570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, very fun < 1218368579 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wasn't being funny < 1218368583 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally a clear mind would be reccomended... < 1218368587 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: I gather he's not writing it right now < 1218368597 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: but he's trying to look up stuff for it < 1218368621 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's one way to clear one's mind :-P < 1218368682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh the lyx file is more uptodate it seems < 1218368700 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would guess so < 1218368722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I don't see your comments on what the issues where in that log < 1218368726 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it hasn't changed since 2008-03-31 I guess it's still a work in progress < 1218368726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what line to search for < 1218368744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it has, the local one differs in page count at least < 1218368745 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: starting around 07:04:51 < 1218368770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what timezone are the tunes.org logs in? < 1218368830 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares < 1218368831 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :est < 1218368832 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess < 1218368841 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: just search for deewiant < 1218368843 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or funge < 1218368852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, there are lots of other funge stuff there too < 1218368861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems I were implementing FPSP at that time < 1218368866 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: EST can refer to 5 different time zones... < 1218368875 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: yes. one of them < 1218368875 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1218368876 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess you meant the american one? < 1218368880 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1218368886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, can you give me some comment to search for please < 1218368890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm unable to find it < 1218368892 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 07:04:51 < 1218368893 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant the EST < 1218368896 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of cambodia < 1218368896 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1218368920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, there is nothing around then in the http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/08.03.31, at that time I haven't even posted the link to that draft < 1218368926 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: on 29 < 1218368937 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 31 is just you saying that there exists a second draft < 1218368941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1218368957 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :29 is when you posted the first < 1218369178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it seems the local one is more uptodate < 1218369184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will scp it < 1218369227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, uploaded < 1218369283 0 :jix!n=jix@evoke-party-visitors.vipri.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1218369325 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster < 1218369328 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I have FNG1 < 1218369331 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and FNG2 < 1218369336 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I want to use the "M" from each one in a bit of code < 1218369337 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do i do < 1218369366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, you could use FING to remap one of the M to something else, that you don't need < 1218369369 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: you use the FING or FNGR or IMAP fingerprints < 1218369372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I plan to implement FING < 1218369376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or yes IMAP < 1218369382 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: what if I need A-Z for both? < 1218369384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, or you could just load and unload them < 1218369391 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just do "2GNF"(M) each time I want it? < 1218369393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, then you need to switch between them a lot < 1218369396 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: IMAP < 1218369398 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you do < 1218369408 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"1GNF"(M"2GNF"(M)M) < 1218369418 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fingerprints should be implemented as befunge modules < 1218369422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, depends on what M does to the stack < 1218369431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, what do you mean? < 1218369432 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: they can be, it's called mini-funge or fungelib < 1218369439 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm off to eat now -> < 1218369441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, or dynafing < 1218369445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is another name for it < 1218369467 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be a FGPT fingerprint < 1218369475 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that lets you make a fingerprint without any special formats even with befunge code < 1218369481 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1218369487 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N ( name -- ) set the name of the new one < 1218369499 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C ( 0"gnirts" name -- ) add command < 1218369501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err? < 1218369502 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S ( -- ) save fingerprint < 1218369510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, sounds like MACR < 1218369513 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: lets you make a fingerprint in befunge code < 1218369515 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you can do < 1218369521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, sounds like MACR kind of < 1218369524 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"FGPT"(...)"LOOC"(...) < 1218369532 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you used the FGPT bit to define COOL < 1218369536 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1218369538 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0"FGPT" < 1218369539 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1218369562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"TPGF"4( < 1218369567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway: dynafing/mini-funge/fungelib doesn't always work... < 1218369576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you couldn't implement FILE using that < 1218369578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or TRDS < 1218369628 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well of course < 1218369638 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but the thing is, all of those don't let you run them from in befunge code < 1218369646 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would just be a regular fingerprint that lets you make a new fingerprint < 1218369656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1218369672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, anyway this sounds almost like MACR < 1218369688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may want to take a look at the new MACR in RC/Funge < 1218369697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not exactly the same < 1218369703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but probably useful for you anyway < 1218369726 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many fingerprints are there? < 1218369733 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's more than 20, i'll make one more < 1218369737 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: like 10-20 < 1218369749 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: they're implementation specific though < 1218369753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, quite a few < 1218369755 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you mean just spec it < 1218369761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no implementation have them all < 1218369763 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and let AnMaster and Deewiant and MikeRiley implement it? < 1218369764 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1218369786 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: yes just spec it, or alternatively use a fingerprint-generating fingerprint to make it in befunge < 1218369813 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it's more fun just to spec it < 1218369816 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and make it a little vague < 1218369818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, for example only ais' addition to cfunge got IFFI < 1218369826 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you get to watch AnMaster, Deewiant and MikeRiley argue aebout it < 1218369831 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*about < 1218369833 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: not necessarily, i love coding in befunge < 1218369837 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's orgastic < 1218369839 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe get it in to mycology, if Deewiant isn't lazy < 1218369840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, well since oklopol made it we will argue with him < 1218369849 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: solution - spec the fingerprint, then write programs using it < 1218369857 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1218369862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I may or may not implement it < 1218369864 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: okay that's better < 1218369877 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: make sure to use it to write something amazing < 1218369880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on how feral it is < 1218369882 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that they just have to implement it < 1218369883 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i can have all kinds of interesting side-effects then. < 1218369902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, if he wrote a good and *fast* ray tracer in Befunge.... < 1218369910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be about the only thing ;P < 1218369923 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, i doubt s/.../.../ for the code would be possible if you wrote it in befunge < 1218369932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, eh? < 1218369941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :replace any 3 chars with 3 dots? < 1218369951 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :replace something in code with something else < 1218369958 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for all instances of something < 1218369960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, see REXP for regex, but I don't think it does replacement yet < 1218369965 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, in the program < 1218369969 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he wants to be able to run a regexp on the program < 1218369970 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from inside the program < 1218369974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you mean search and replace on funge space < 1218369981 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that i meant < 1218369989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be done in dynafing < 1218369995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but would be quite complex I think < 1218369996 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as something that would be easy to spec, but hard to write as a befunge module. < 1218370022 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, no, he wants you to implement it see ;) < 1218370023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, it *could* be done in dynafing/mini-funge < 1218370028 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be < 1218370029 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hard < 1218370038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, cfunge doesn't do dynafing or such yet < 1218370044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it ever will < 1218370054 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: probably possible, although i don't know how you'd do it < 1218370060 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you get me started? < 1218370065 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meann < 1218370092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, well.... dynafing is appendix C in http://rage.kuonet.org/~anmaster/funge-108/funge108.pdf < 1218370093 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i think i know < 1218370101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :select funge-98 one I guess < 1218370105 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: don't use dynafing < 1218370108 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just AnMaster's toy invention < 1218370113 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RC-Funge has something similar that is actually implemented < 1218370114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, it isn't < 1218370118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is from !Befunge < 1218370119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, ^ < 1218370127 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: fine, well, !Befunge is kind of useless < 1218370139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, it is more powerful than mini-funge < 1218370139 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. broken 2. you basically can't run it on modern systems < 1218370147 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and more powerful == less fun to do stuff in < 1218370171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1218370177 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it would be trivial if it, for instance, kinda temporarily pastes the whole fingerprint source where the instruction was, and you'd have G and P for accessing the fingerprint code, and g and p for the original code < 1218370184 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and X for exiting the fingerprint < 1218370188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mini-funge is almost a subset of dynafing anyway < 1218370196 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pasted < 1218370209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the different is G/P and g/p have interchanged meanings < 1218370224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feature Dynafing 1.3 RC/Funge’s mini-funge < 1218370224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instruction to get and set in G and P g and p < 1218370224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haunted Funge-Space. < 1218370224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instruction to get and set in g and p G and P < 1218370234 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm actually not sure how it'd work to call shit in the fingerprint itself. < 1218370235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghost Funge-Space. < 1218370249 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway it's either trivial or impossible, i think. < 1218370265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, write the specs first < 1218370268 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway, there will always be stuff you can't write as a befunge module < 1218370272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I'll see what I think of it < 1218370275 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i'm not going to make s/// < 1218370283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, indeed there will be stuff < 1218370288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TRDS, FILE, DIRF < 1218370290 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"there will always be stuff you can't write as a befunge module" is my point < 1218370290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to name a few < 1218370299 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trds? < 1218370301 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dirf? < 1218370314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, TRDS: time travel in funge space for IPs < 1218370322 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that one < 1218370323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIRF: mkdir/chdir/rmdir < 1218370326 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1218370328 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shop -> < 1218370330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FILE: File streams < 1218370353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: dirf != DIRF < 1218370388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should make two fingerprints that only differ in case < 1218370399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be fun to see what Deewiant would say ;P < 1218370416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ARGH CAN'T MAKE THE SOURCE CODE FILES AS WINDOWS IS CASE INSENSITIVE!" < 1218370421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that hehe < 1218370530 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it'll be so full of posix-only features that I can't implement it anyway ;-P < 1218370537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hehehe < 1218370566 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he'd just call it dirf_lower < 1218370567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, could ccbi handle weirdly named fingerprints? < 1218370573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, non-printable ones < 1218370592 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: probably < 1218370595 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he'd just not name the file that < 1218370606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not sure < 1218370628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge's fingerprint.h generation scripts would need some changes in order to support it < 1218370678 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CCBI requires no changes for such < 1218370696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, could CCBI handle a fingerprint 0? < 1218370699 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1218370708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1218370713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge couldn't currently < 1218370716 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I debated about making a fingerprint 0 just for Mycology < 1218370717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could be changed however < 1218370720 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but decided not to < 1218370729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well cfunge will never try to load 0 < 1218370737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just use it as a end of list marker < 1218370739 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, and hence cfunge doesn't conform to the spec. < 1218370745 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same with RC/Funge-98. < 1218370746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it does < 1218370748 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and possibly others. < 1218370755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it just don't implement 0 < 1218370756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1218370766 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1218370767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, loading AAAA will reflect as well as loading 0 < 1218370785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it totally conforms to the specs < 1218370824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I can't see how you end up with "doesn't conform" here < 1218370825 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should make 0 a combination of useful stuff from various fingerprints < 1218370845 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just so that you can start a befunge program with ( and have A-Z map to handy things < 1218370854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, then it would be a 3 line change to use sizeof and some stuff to get the size of the array instead < 1218370869 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why don't you change it :-) < 1218370874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ a few lines of change to generation of fingerprint.h script < 1218370888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, because it works, and because I don't need it yet < 1218370902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I said, I could change it easily enough if I needed to < 1218370934 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, filenames can't contain a null byte can they < 1218370951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed that would be another change, in that case to the generation scripts < 1218370959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you could call the file null.d? < 1218370961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1218370974 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that wasn't my point < 1218370984 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of mini-funge < 1218370989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, even / is valid in filenames I think < 1218370998 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think < 1218371009 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think NUL and / are the only two disallowed in *nix < 1218371015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1218371016 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in windows, some others as wel < 1218371017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe / too < 1218371017 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+l < 1218371025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well "who cares about windows" *ducks* < 1218371035 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyhoo < 1218371052 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this means that mini-funge can't load fingerprints that contain NUL < 1218371059 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or start with / < 1218371065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well the Funge-108 variant of mini-funge could < 1218371067 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or end with /, I guess < 1218371079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, file name doesn't matter there < 1218371095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Syntax Description Example < 1218371096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :==U: URI ==U:http://example.com/test < 1218371096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :==F: Legacy fingerprint string =F:TEST < 1218371101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the first few lines < 1218371107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to define fingerprint names < 1218371142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, see how useful that is? :) < 1218371152 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: for legacy names < 1218371159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, yes? < 1218371163 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, if we ever make more than 2^32 fingerprints < 1218371175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, no I mean that way to declare the names < 1218371175 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: funge-fingerprint-legacy://TRDS < 1218371177 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1218371180 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use an unregistered URI secheme < 1218371183 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically they're not valid URIs < 1218371184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, allows all those chars you mentioned < 1218371188 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in practice it'd be a lot easier < 1218371191 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah, exactly, useful if we ever run out of fingerprint names < 1218371192 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(than supporting both) < 1218371192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, interesting < 1218371219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, it is rather easy anyway: "if loading it as uri fails, fall back to old loading scheme" < 1218371232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, or to define 0 < 1218371234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you want < 1218371238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and to avoid name collisions < 1218371242 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, but for defining it < 1218371291 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 0 can be defined anyway, just not doable in minifunge :-) < 1218371308 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: here's how you should define 0 for mycology < 1218371313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, now it could be done in mini-funge < 1218371317 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A-Z are all different parts of the test < 1218371324 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when you wanna test 0 in mycology < 1218371325 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do < 1218371331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, you still don't have to implement 0 < 1218371333 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10(ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ) < 1218371343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10? < 1218371349 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 10 = 1"\0" < 1218371354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1218371355 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1218371355 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01 < 1218371360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1218371367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, I was confused there :P < 1218371387 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't even need 01, just 0 < 1218371388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually do you test that Deewiant, loading 0( < 1218371391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to see that it works < 1218371404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words: reflect < 1218371416 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think that's what I use to test ( and ) < 1218371417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm true < 1218371421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1218371438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well those tests would need to be rewritten if someone implements 0 < 1218371448 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you know what you must now do ;) < 1218371453 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :find a bug in mycology! go implement 0 < 1218371459 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, because there is no resereved unimplemented fingerprint < 1218371461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha very funny < 1218371476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, wait you could make one, define it as *never implemented* < 1218371479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1218371483 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: make it print out "AnMaster 0wned Mycology!!! greetz to mikeriley" < 1218371486 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and exit the program < 1218371496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, very fun :P < 1218371507 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: itym "very funny" < 1218371517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :itym? < 1218371527 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you mean < 1218371533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1218371544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a sarcastic way < 1218371563 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly used in the construction "ITYM 'foo' HTH HAND". < 1218371580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTH? < 1218371586 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Happy to help, have a nice day. < 1218371598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see... < 1218371613 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: not to me < 1218371617 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use it sincerely < 1218371620 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and most people I know do < 1218371642 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was pointing out that anmaster probably meant "very funny" < 1218371647 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sarcastically < 1218371748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe define UDEF as "this fingerprint is never implemented" < 1218371778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then require implementations to support UDEF for mycology to be able to finish testing < 1218371785 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"N/A" - "this fingerprint is not available" < 1218371802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another good one < 1218371804 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beh: < 1218371806 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{Kim Cameron, Microsoft’s chief architect of identity, is an enthusiastic advocate of information cards, which are not only vastly more secure than a password-based security system, but are also customizable, permitting users to limit what information is released to particular sites. “I don’t like Single Sign-On,” Mr. Cameron said. “I don’t believe in Single Sign-On.” } < 1218371808 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :supporting it means to not support it, so it's not exactly a requirement :-P < 1218371814 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(from a stupid new york times article about openid via reddit) < 1218371816 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idiot idiot idiot < 1218371823 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can limit what sites can get info from your openid too! < 1218371872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, heheh < 1218371968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm writing a funge interpreter in a purely functional language would be hard I think < 1218371977 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1218371990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, fingerprints need to modify global state < 1218371990 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1218371993 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on the language itself, of course :-P < 1218371998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you don't have one < 1218372002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, think erlang < 1218372020 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erlang isn't purely functional, is it? < 1218372026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess haskell too, but I don't know haskell at all, I do know some erlang < 1218372036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, almost purely functional I think < 1218372040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm learning erlang < 1218372057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example you can only "bind" a variable once < 1218372067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes it hard to do a global state < 1218372074 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case, you can just pass around whatever it is you want to "modify" < 1218372075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you can't modify it < 1218372081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true < 1218372090 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | !1 2%%3 4.. < 1218372092 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in haskell, this is made somewhat easier by things like the State monad < 1218372112 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in erlang, I'd imagine it's easier for some other reason because it's not pure ;-) < 1218372310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I don't "get" monads < 1218372339 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easier to "get" individual monads, like Maybe and State < 1218372350 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then later "get" what they have in common < 1218372354 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO anywaj < 1218372356 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/j/y/ < 1218372369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I'm learning erlang currently < 1218372774 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster nobody gets monads < 1218372776 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from like 5 people < 1218372777 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1218372782 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i am one of them) < 1218372797 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1218372911 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :monads mean that you like have IO but it's not like side-effect! < 1218372933 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: not really < 1218372933 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1218372948 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was that sarcasm-tag again? < 1218372954 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you missed mine, I see < 1218372961 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I am an expert on NOMADS < 1218372968 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if anyone has any questions about NOMADS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I can answer them < 1218372971 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in audial form < 1218372984 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: i did miss it, where is it? < 1218372993 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: after 'not really' < 1218373004 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...:P? < 1218373018 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or have i been nnscripted..? < 1218373032 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it was ~ < 1218373035 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1218373035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahah < 1218373048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, so what are NOMADS? < 1218373075 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: they are NOMADS < 1218373078 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1218373078 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have the following operations < 1218373088 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOMAAAAAAAAAADS < 1218373093 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RTEURN :: M A -> A < 1218373099 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1218373103 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BIDN :: A -> (M A -> B) -> B < 1218373106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, are they in any way related to monads? < 1218373109 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIAL :: M STRING -> A < 1218373112 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are NOMAAAAAAAAAAADS < 1218373117 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*clap clap clap* < 1218373124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :return, bind, fail? < 1218373128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but typoed? < 1218373135 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no those are for monads < 1218373143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, oh? I don't get monads < 1218373148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know haskell < 1218373184 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: they are NOMADSSSSSSS < 1218373188 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are not < 1218373189 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MONADSSSSSSSSS < 1218373206 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically a monad is kind of a container with a few operations for sequencing computation, and optionally additional operations for tinkering with its state. < 1218373240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I see, so how do you manage to do write/read/seek on a file stream in haskell? < 1218373258 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: IO is not necessarily the best way to get into monads as a concept < 1218373271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1218373275 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, err < 1218373277 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i think you'd have to grasp functional programming more to get it < 1218373283 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not easy to explain to a c programmer. < 1218373289 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the state there would be the world's state < 1218373297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, I do know some erlang now, and also some elisp < 1218373301 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: still. :) < 1218373305 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have a few operations for playing with the state, like reading files and writing to the printer < 1218373308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, indeed I think in C < 1218373312 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1218373316 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i think we should wait a bit < 1218373325 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll be easier once he's learned erlang < 1218373332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I'd write a erlang program I would write it in C in my head, then convert to erlang < 1218373333 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how to do state in that < 1218373343 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's probably not a good idea < 1218373344 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well he definitely shouldn't do like me and not touch haskell at all and just read tutorials on monads :D < 1218373344 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah ... don't write any erlang programs ;) < 1218373350 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I expect the code would be quite unidiomatic < 1218373350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, indeed not < 1218373356 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: 'quite'? < 1218373357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm still learning erlang :P < 1218373361 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster would be a human compiler < 1218373362 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1218373367 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one that makes everything slower to boot < 1218373375 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: well, I don't know Erlang so I don't know what idiomatic Erlang should look like :-) < 1218373394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, I'm still learning it < 1218373403 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1218373408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I began with C I was thinking in bash, when I began with bash I was thinking in pascal < 1218373420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first few weeks the code doesn't look good at all of course < 1218373427 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so actually you've been thinking in the same language all the time, you just changed the syntax ;-) < 1218373444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you *learn* to "think" in the language < 1218373444 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant is pretty much right < 1218373453 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i'm afraid bash, C and pascal are basically the same < 1218373458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, yep < 1218373460 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :single paradigm, not that many differences < 1218373462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apple script too < 1218373465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before pascal < 1218373466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1218373467 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you really only know one language :P < 1218373476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, object pascal < 1218373480 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host59-80-dynamic.20-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1218373481 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, funny to think that AnMaster would use a propietary language on a propietary system < 1218373481 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1218373482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do know object orientation < 1218373490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, I used Mac OS 7 ages ago < 1218373492 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you tried smalltalk < 1218373492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is why < 1218373499 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or Io < 1218373505 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: i can answer that < 1218373505 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1218373506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, no, but I have read about it, it smalltalk looks very interesting < 1218373506 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1218373511 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: :-) < 1218373515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can only do one thing at a time < 1218373535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, anyway I also coded C#, so yes I can think in object orientation as well < 1218373546 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C# and object pascal aren't real oo AnMaster :) < 1218373554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, oh? < 1218373557 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they break several core principles < 1218373559 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're mostly imperative with OO on the top < 1218373564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah true < 1218373569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but so is C++ then < 1218373570 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :smalltalk's object model obeys it because it invented it :P < 1218373572 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1218373575 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ is ... no way OOP < 1218373579 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, C++ and Java included < 1218373583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :objc then? < 1218373584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about it? < 1218373590 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't used it < 1218373592 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obj-c is very close to real OO < 1218373596 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's basically C with smalltalk on top < 1218373609 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has some funky @ and - syntax for declaring classes < 1218373615 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the actual message sends? < 1218373626 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[obj someMsg:YES withX:[obj2 test:NO]] < 1218373628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, anyway I also know befunge which is a different programming model yet < 1218373636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think in befunge when coding it < 1218373638 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge is still imperative though < 1218373638 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1218373639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think in C < 1218373639 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, Befunge is also imperative :-P < 1218373641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would not work < 1218373643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that is true < 1218373650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is not like C at all still :P < 1218373651 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you don't even write self-modifying code < 1218373659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I do < 1218373688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" :rebmun a retnE" >:#,_v < 1218373688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : v_v#!`g00:+1a,@ ^ < 1218373693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not much self modifying < 1218373698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just as variable storage < 1218373709 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... not at all self modifying :-P < 1218373722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, true, but most time you don't need it < 1218373735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, how would you write that code using self modification in some constructive way? < 1218373758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait I can see one way, write the value to a cell then put a ' in front < 1218373767 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance < 1218373811 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, I was just saying that Befunge is really imperative, if your code is very self-modifying then it might be considered as somewhat of a a different mindset but probably not :-) < 1218373878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway erlang is a totally different mindset < 1218373900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and look at my def-c low level compiler, it is not classic C < 1218373904 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite, if you use it correctly ;-) < 1218373923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def-c, the def-bf compiler that is < 1218373935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it uses recursion a lot < 1218373949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not functional, but not classical C etierh < 1218373950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either* < 1218373963 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recursion in itself doesn't mean it's not somehow normal C :-) < 1218373980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, recursion isn't very common in C programs < 1218373996 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, because C programmers generally can't think recursively < 1218374003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet 99% of the functions in a normal C program aren't recursive < 1218374007 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they mash something into a really complicated loop when recursion would serve them better < 1218374022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but my Brainfuck parser and optimizer are both recursive < 1218374036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :new level at every [ < 1218374040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and up at every ] < 1218374046 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is because it makes more sense to do so than to loop :-P < 1218374053 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not because you're writing in a non-C style < 1218374058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1218374065 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you wanted to loop, you'd have to manage your own stack < 1218374071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, my BASE.c binary() is recursive < 1218374073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl food < 1218374075 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it'd be just like recursion anyway < 1218374465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1218374679 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot! < 1218374679 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | 3PLN = $1 ;d < 1218374683 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot! < 1218374683 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | argh < 1218374688 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : yes < 1218377430 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1218377509 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1218377523 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think i've basically hit the most minimum design here < 1218377559 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :removing any more would add extra whitespace (enough to be ugly), or make the edit box too small, or remove the tiny bit of fonts I have < 1218377571 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Satisfying. < 1218377939 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU'RE THE MAN! < 1218377978 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: mail coming your way < 1218378058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, blergh -- makes thunderbird think everything below is a signature < 1218378059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1218378083 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, must have typoed then < 1218378086 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be "-- " < 1218378090 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for signatures, that is < 1218378094 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or thunderbird is buggy :-P < 1218378102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes there is a space there in your stuff < 1218378107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just all kinds of stuff that came to mind based on the draft version 2. < 1218378107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- You often say "IP index" when you mean "IP ID". I think it would be clearer to just use the latter all the way through. -- < 1218378108 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL. whatismyip.org is down < 1218378120 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeap, I typoed in the first -- < 1218378120 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1218378121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, it isn't hard to get your ip.. < 1218378133 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, but 'whatismyip.org[enter]' is instinctive < 1218378136 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah well, I can resend it if you want ;-P < 1218378150 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile http://91.105.115.23/on/FooBarBaz:Sandbox behold the painful minimalism! < 1218378151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes thanks < 1218378185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, nice, but I prefer sans-serif on screen < 1218378196 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The header and the footer are sans-serif. :P < 1218378203 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the headings. < 1218378206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, the main text I mean < 1218378220 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yea, I was trying to differenciate between the auxillary debris and the actual text < 1218378231 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my reasoning was that the actual text is more formal than the clutter around it < 1218378242 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(even though that clutter is 2 lines, whatever) < 1218378245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, what about using
? < 1218378259 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
is unsemantic, I'd add a bottom border < 1218378260 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no < 1218378268 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i generally prefer typography & whitespace to seperate sections < 1218378286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, anyway I wouldn't read a wiki with that font for the main text < 1218378291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would go elsewhere < 1218378312 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my personal wiki of opinion will surely fail because of the money you deprive it by not clicking on its huge swaths of ads, I'm sure < 1218378324 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you refuse to read any website that's in a serif font? < 1218378327 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, I lol'd < 1218378342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ads? < 1218378346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use adblock < 1218378352 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it has 85 ads < 1218378355 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flashing all over the page < 1218378359 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are depriving me of tons of money! < 1218378360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, and no I just think it is painful to read serif on screen < 1218378361 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need your readership! < 1218378370 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :baaaah < 1218378371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no ads there < 1218378375 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thunderbird is buggy < 1218378382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it adds the space? < 1218378406 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I am homeless and cannot afford food. You are depriving me money I need to stay alive by not clicking on the huge numbers of ads on my site, which you refuse to read because it's serif. < 1218378408 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you no heart? :( < 1218378420 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1218378424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, there are no ads, I checked in another browser < 1218378432 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I CAN'T AFFORD FOOD < 1218378433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well use a single - or whatever then :P < 1218378436 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so I just used 3 dashes now < 1218378438 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BECAUSE OF PEOPLE LIKE YOU < 1218378442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that works too < 1218378499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, I would accept ads if they weren't animated, too many ads are animated, result: I block all ads < 1218378509 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: DO YOU WANT ME TO STARVE?!?!?!! < 1218378510 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BASTARD < 1218378511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and your site got no ads < 1218378566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, do you want people suffering from epilepsy to get a seizure when viewing your site? < 1218378581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure I don't have epilepsy, but I can't stand animated ads < 1218378582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1218378583 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: AS LONG AS I CAN AFFORD FOOD < 1218378588 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHICH I CAN'T RIGHT NOW < 1218378589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THERE ARE NO ADS ON YOUR FUCKING WEBSITE < 1218378595 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HAVE TO PICK UP SCRAPS FROM THE TRASH CANS < 1218378596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I CHECKED WITH ANOTHER BROWSER < 1218378602 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEY HAVE DISEASES < 1218378605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALSO YOU LIVE AT HOME SINCE YOU ARE 12 < 1218378612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poor girl < 1218378613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1218378615 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahaha you're like the easiest person to troll ever :D < 1218378625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, I'd say the same about you < 1218378626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1218378645 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 minutes from naught to capitals and swearing < 1218378646 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :excellent < 1218378665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, I just mimic you < 1218378686 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes but I successfully annoyed you < 1218378783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, you did, becuase I was trying to read about function references in erlang < 1218378809 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmeme: can you go away; ircbrowse is dead < 1218378837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ircbrowse? < 1218378841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it dead? < 1218378846 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ircbrowse.com < 1218378847 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's dead < 1218378861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, or it is temp down simply < 1218378871 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1218378873 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its been like that for months < 1218378876 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many months < 1218378876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :server problems *do* happen < 1218378878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, hm I see < 1218378879 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and before that cmeme kept crashing < 1218378883 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not logging < 1218378886 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even when it was in here < 1218378907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well get it out then? < 1218378920 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh how < 1218378923 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not an op < 1218378938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask lament when he is here? < 1218378949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who else got +o? < 1218378949 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1218378955 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fizzie < 1218378956 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1218378961 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aardappel is the channel owner < 1218378965 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he hasn't come here since 2002 iir < 1218378965 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c < 1218378968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1218378979 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(aardappel = FALSE) < 1218378983 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and many others) < 1218379006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well someone could make a group registration asking for take over of esoteric < 1218379017 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1218379019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a nice side effect you could get esoteric/ cloaks then :P < 1218379025 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're not a group < 1218379028 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this channel name is incorrect < 1218379030 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be ##esoteric < 1218379032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1218379034 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was made before that policy < 1218379041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* You have been kicked from ##esoteric by ChanServ (Invite only channel) < 1218379042 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's no point changing it now < 1218379043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1218379054 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: probably for the religious/magic kind of esoterica < 1218379062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, err what? < 1218379066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, also there was no one else there < 1218379071 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esoteric < 1218379073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chanserv joined a second after me < 1218379094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the channel was *dead* < 1218379099 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what < 1218379102 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are not changing to ##esoteric < 1218379104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1218379104 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not happening < 1218379122 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been like this since 2002 and freenode are too busy whining for money to do anything about the tos violation :p < 1218379295 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@m-41.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1218379543 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, yes, I think I have a reasonably wide set of privileges in chanserv for #esoteric. < 1218379839 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i won't believe it until you ban me < 1218379851 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what every op must do in here, otherwise they are not an op. it's simple logic, really. < 1218379857 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament's the only one so far < 1218379939 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, are freenode's services down? "ChanServ: No such nick/channel" < 1218379983 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just netsplitted... < 1218379996 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How coincidental. < 1218380083 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone leave #esoteric < 1218380087 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to steal ops while services are away < 1218380087 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1218380110 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nuuuuuu < 1218380198 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o fizzie < 1218380213 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you really need the +b, too, or can I just deop myself now? < 1218380255 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1218380274 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also need a kick < 1218380291 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it is very important < 1218380303 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+b tusho!n=tusho@91.105.115.23 < 1218380363 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :-b tusho!n=tusho@91.105.115.23 < 1218380367 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :-o fizzie < 1218380373 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't really say I saw the point in that. < 1218380402 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strange girl. < 1218380414 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :girl? < 1218380433 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, he looks like one. < 1218380528 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if the ban+kick thing was some sort of crafty "I will frame them to be horrible tyrants and complain to freenode people" ploy. < 1218380557 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: What do you think? Didn't tusho write you? < 1218380557 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: or well, one can't join graue's forum, but i meant with that which one to start using more < 1218380558 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1218380605 0 :unrelatedguy!n=unrelate@91.105.115.23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1218380610 0 :unrelatedguy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie my brother is not a girl < 1218380643 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the word "brother" already implies that. < 1218380656 0 :unrelatedguy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually my other brother is a girl < 1218380669 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-SD < 1218380686 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My wife's sister is a boy, actually, so I guess that sort of stuff happens. < 1218380698 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1218380756 0 :unrelatedguy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway fizzie why did you ban my brother < 1218380787 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it seemed to be his life-long ambition. < 1218380798 0 :unrelatedguy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1218380799 0 :unrelatedguy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1218380825 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you probably already read the logs? < 1218380840 0 :unrelatedguy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes he was joking... < 1218380851 0 :unrelatedguy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's obvious < 1218380868 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That can't be true. There were no smileys anywhere. It's not a joke if there's no ":)". < 1218380886 0 :unrelatedguy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sarcasm must be really fun for you < 1218380887 0 :unrelatedguy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, ":)" < 1218380921 0 :unrelatedguy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now can you please unban my brother i don't think that was very nice < 1218380933 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already did, I think. < 1218380948 0 :unrelatedguy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i'll tell him < 1218380968 0 :tusho!n=tusho@91.105.115.23 JOIN :#esoteric < 1218380973 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah that's better < 1218380976 0 :unrelatedguy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi tusho < 1218380978 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1218380987 0 :unrelatedguy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, bye i guess < 1218380989 0 :unrelatedguy!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1218381002 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fail to see how this was very important < 1218381025 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, how can your brother be "unrelated" to you? Or maybe the nickname isn't related to this case. < 1218381061 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the nick he uses on irc... < 1218381094 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a completely different note, I don't have a brother < 1218381118 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not even a female one? Gasp! Shock, horror. < 1218381130 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know it's shocking < 1218381143 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hey i think you missed the ":)" < 1218381152 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, sorry. < 1218381157 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :":)" < 1218381179 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1218381205 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's one way to get more chatter on the channel. < 1218381248 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another is optbot < 1218381248 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: 72 bottles of beer on the wall, 72 bottles of beer. < 1218381255 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: take one down and pass it around < 1218381256 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: because youre at work? < 1218381260 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: yes. can't drink at work. < 1218381260 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: - becomes 1- < 1218381923 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-82-181.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1218383492 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :""Won't be back for a while..."" < 1218384352 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1218384383 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1218387291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :new version of the draft of funge-108 < 1218387296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just some typo fixes < 1218387299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ^ < 1218387322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same url as before < 1218387347 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's just some typo fixes it's not important enough to ping me ;-) < 1218388487 0 :Hiato!n=Hiato@dsl-245-31-70.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1218391059 0 :MikeRiley!n=mike@12.192.179.31 JOIN :#esoteric < 1218391245 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: another question btw, the matrix-creating instructions in 3DSP (PRSTY) don't make sense to me: P for instance is (Vdm Vsm -- ) - where's the result stored < 1218391333 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stored on the stack, will have to fix the documentation one for that < 1218391352 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it should be (Vsm -- Vdm) or something then? < 1218391379 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how are vectors/matrices stored, x y z / x1 y1 z1 x2 y2 z2 x3 y3 z3 or what? < 1218391432 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vectors: x y z < 1218391443 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :matrices x1 y1 z1 x2 y2 z2 x3 y3 z3 < 1218391446 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and document it!) < 1218391459 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never claimed to be good at documenation!!! eheheeheheheheheeh < 1218391468 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really need peer review for that stuff!!!! eheheheheheheeh < 1218391484 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me look at P,,,just a sec < 1218391512 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for subtraction, one never knows if it's "a - b" or "b - a"... the latter is standard in Funge but I'd document it anyway < 1218391536 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(applies to 3DSP's B, CPLI's S, probably FPSP/FPDP and others also) < 1218391543 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually,,,,hold on....need to take a look at the source....the matrices themselves may be in funge-space < 1218391567 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, so Vdm is a pointer to funge-space < 1218391579 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was not at all obvious ;-) < 1218391610 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then, they're stored x1 y1 z1 x2 y2 z2 x3 y3 z3 within funge-space, taking up 9 cells thus? < 1218391625 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just looked at source,,,,matrices are in funge-space,,,,so where matrices are arguments they are vectors to funge-space < 1218391636 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check the format,,,,hold on < 1218391664 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stored in funge-space in 2 dimensions... < 1218391673 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 cells by 3 cells < 1218391744 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess that fingerprint can use some better documentation!!!! eheheheheheheheeheh < 1218391773 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I'd say so :-P < 1218391796 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I guess they're like: < 1218391798 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x1 x2 x3 < 1218391800 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y1 y2 y3 < 1218391806 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it the other way around < 1218391817 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x1y1 x2y1 x3y1 < 1218391825 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x1y2 x2y2 x3y2 < 1218391833 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x1y3 x2y3 x3y3 < 1218391842 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vector points to the x1y1 cell < 1218391843 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh what? < 1218391846 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aye < 1218391854 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1218391860 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is x3y1 an x- or z-coordinate < 1218391889 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x3y1 would be a z coordinate < 1218391895 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1218391896 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1218391898 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x1 y1 z1 < 1218391901 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x2 y2 z2 < 1218391903 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x3 y3 z3 < 1218391905 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1218391908 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the vector points to x1 < 1218391912 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct < 1218391913 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, document this ;-) < 1218391919 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will do!!!! < 1218391924 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and V < 1218391929 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what exactly should it do < 1218391942 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me look < 1218391971 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that functions maps a 3d point to a 2d point, if you hold on, can get you the formula for it?? < 1218391995 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are many ways of doing it < 1218391998 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idea of that fingerprint is to be able to work with objects in 3 dimensional space, but be able to draw them on the screen in 2 dimenstions... < 1218392004 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes there are ,,,, let me get my formula... < 1218392011 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so document which way it is ;-) < 1218392015 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which came out of a raytracing book, if i remember.... < 1218392033 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : case EX_3DSP+14:Float.i=Pop(cip); b.z=Float.f; /* V */ < 1218392033 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Float.i=Pop(cip); b.y=Float.f; < 1218392033 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Float.i=Pop(cip); b.x=Float.f; < 1218392033 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (b.z==0) Float.f=b.x; else Float.f=b.x/b.z; < 1218392033 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Push(Float.i,cip); < 1218392034 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (b.z==0) Float.f=b.y; else Float.f=b.y/b.z; < 1218392036 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Push(Float.i,cip); < 1218392038 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : break; < 1218392090 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's just (x,y,z) -> (x/z, y/z) < 1218392226 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what's with the zero checks < 1218392237 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to prevent division by zero errors... < 1218392248 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :floating point division by zero is well-defined :-P < 1218392254 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :z=0 is the same plane as the screen < 1218392257 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/0 -> infinity < 1218392261 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, I see < 1218392272 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't want infinity < 1218392277 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :positive z is away from viewer,,,negative z is towards viewer < 1218392293 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no,,,since z=0 is the reference poitn for everything else < 1218392328 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so with z=0, no perspective calculation needs to be done, just use the x and y as is < 1218393087 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :important point,,,Rc/Funge-98 source code for 3DSP is a bad example, it is ALL WRONG!!!! looks like it is working with interger values instead of floating point.....i have to rewrite that module.... < 1218393094 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1218393099 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1218393134 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of the numbers used in 3DSP need to be floating point,,,same as in FPSP... < 1218393151 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: hmm BTW, translation matrices need to be 4x4 don't they?? < 1218393169 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes actually.... < 1218393177 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so wth :-P < 1218393187 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that meant to be handled in X < 1218393188 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rc/Funge-98 is using 4x4 matrices.... < 1218393196 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're all 4x4?? < 1218393199 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking < 1218393217 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes they are all 4x4 < 1218393222 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1218393253 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so revise what i said earlier about matrices in funge-space,,,they are stored 4x4... < 1218393348 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the functions i was using for matric storage: < 1218393359 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :struct MATRIX Get_Matrix(int x,int y,int z) < 1218393359 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1218393359 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int fx,fy; < 1218393359 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int i; < 1218393359 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : struct MATRIX Result; < 1218393360 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : union FLOAT { < 1218393362 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : float f; < 1218393364 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : long int i; < 1218393366 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : } f; < 1218393368 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i=0; < 1218393370 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for (fy=0;fy<4;fy++) < 1218393372 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for (fx=0;fx<4;fx++) { < 1218393374 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : f.i=Get_Funge(x+(i++),y,z); < 1218393376 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Result.c[fx][fy]=f.f; < 1218393378 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1218393380 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return Result; < 1218393382 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1218393384 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void Put_Matrix(struct MATRIX *a,int x,int y,int z) < 1218393386 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ < 1218393388 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int fx,fy; < 1218393390 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int i; < 1218393392 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : union FLOAT { < 1218393394 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : float f; < 1218393396 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : long int i; < 1218393398 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : } f; < 1218393400 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i=0; < 1218393402 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for (fy=0;fy<4;fy++) < 1218393404 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for (fx=0;fx<4;fx++) { < 1218393406 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : f.f=a->c[fx][fy]; < 1218393408 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Put_Funge(x+(i++),y,z,f.i); < 1218393410 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1218393412 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1218393414 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which also look wrong actually!!!! eheheheheheheeheheheh < 1218393454 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that whole module looks like it needs to be scrapped and rewritten!!!! eheheheheheheeheh < 1218393493 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shoult be Get_Funge(x+fx,y+fy,z) and Put_Funge(x+fx,y+fy,z,f.i) < 1218393525 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: X is just matrix*vector, right? < 1218393538 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct < 1218393599 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :starting to wonder how my test program for that fingerprint ever worked!!! < 1218393632 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but running it,,,,does come up with the right values....hmmmmmmmm < 1218393690 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | The 7th level of hell is reserved for those violent against people and property. < 1218393715 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think i will write a new test program for that module that is more rigourous,,, < 1218394022 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: what order should Y multiply in < 1218394031 0 :Hiato!n=Hiato@dsl-245-31-70.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1218394053 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(vdm v1m v2m) = v1m * v2m < 1218394066 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks, and document that ;-) < 1218394096 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i see how my code works now....it is correct....do need to fix Get_Matrix and Put_Matrix tho....rest is correct,,,,probably will not work right on a 64-bit machine tho... < 1218394106 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep...need to document it!! :) < 1218394151 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1218394189 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :single is 32-bits, so fits in the 32-bit cells of Rc/Funge-98....using the integer protion of a union to get/put cells, but using the float portion of the union for the calculations... < 1218394219 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as much rewriting as i thought,,,but will need to modify the code to be 64-bit safe... < 1218394357 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1218394714 0 :RodgerTheGreat_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1218395231 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: just read your e-mails < 1218395242 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about MODU, good point, I forgot it was cat's-eye's, my bad < 1218395281 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about DATE, yes, some people don't use the gregorian, such as some asian countries < 1218395297 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about EMEM, so "addr" is an offset into the malloced array if I got you correctly? < 1218395336 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for IMAP, great, but why not go all the way and allow all values that a cell can hold < 1218395470 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bacj < 1218395472 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back that is < 1218395493 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, DATE will be more specific < 1218395508 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes addr in EMEM referes to the address in the malloc'ed block,,, < 1218395544 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose IMAP could do that, just complicates the code...right now i just use a 256 element array so quick conversion,,,could go to something else... < 1218395614 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :start by documenting what IMAP is supposed to do :-) < 1218395616 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in EMEM addr=0 is the first byte of alloc'ed memory,,,the actual memory pointer is not exposed to the funge program itself < 1218395631 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have changed IMAP in the documentaion, just not posted it yet < 1218395632 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except via hnd < 1218395652 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even hnd is not necesarily the actual pointer returned my malloc,,, < 1218395657 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not sure I'm going to implement EMEM, it seems totally pointless to me :-P < 1218395665 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the most part it is.... < 1218395672 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for what part isn't it < 1218395675 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt i will ever use that one myself... < 1218395697 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I were you I'd just remove it entirely, it has practically zero use < 1218395697 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a system where the pointer returned from malloc does not fit into the cell size, then some other mechanism must be used < 1218395711 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since we already have two data storage locations < 1218395715 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agree,,,,near zero use....but already written.... < 1218395718 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funge-space, and stack stacks < 1218395722 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1218395725 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stacks on the stack stack* < 1218395754 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only point for EMEM that I can see is if you're running on a /very/ low-memory system < 1218395757 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure why i even defined EMEM actually,,,probably was bored that day and decided to do somethign strange... < 1218395764 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... you're not going to be running funge on such a system anyway < 1218395770 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1218395775 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even if you are, you can't do many useful things even with EMEM < 1218395822 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: and as for "already written", I'm going to quote from another channel < 1218395825 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2008-08-10 18:56:16 ( gwern) for every line of code you delete, god resurrects a kitten < 1218395834 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;-) < 1218395875 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I wonder if the reverse also holds... that for every line of code you write, god kills a kitten < 1218395892 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eheheheheheheheheheheheh < 1218395896 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only if somebody asks you to delete it ;-) < 1218395990 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every time you program in visual basic a kitten kills god < 1218396118 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chances are EMEM was the result of being bored and running out of fingerprint ideas!!! eheheheeheh < 1218396153 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, you don't have to churn out a fingerprint every day :-P < 1218396162 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if it's just a pointless one >_< < 1218396184 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know....but when i get bored,,,got to do something...eheheheeheheheh < 1218396199 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since funge is my current focus these days,,,that is what gets worked on... < 1218396223 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you got a funge-108 mode yet, do that instead :-P < 1218396241 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have most of one...not too much more to do and then it should work,,, < 1218396255 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have all the simpler stuff,,,,like reflects on negatives for various instructions.... < 1218396262 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so do that instead of creating useless fingerprints >_< < 1218396268 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have a changed version of the new fingerprints.... < 1218396289 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is wrong with useless fingerprints???? half the fingerprints i have made are probably useless!! eheheehheeheheh < 1218396313 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some are at least interesting, such as TRDS < 1218396327 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but EMEM is useless /and/ boring :-P < 1218396332 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one i think was born out of insanity!!!! eheheheheheeheh < 1218396342 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will not disagree about EMEM < 1218396354 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you pass mycotrds, or? < 1218396391 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no,,,,it passes my own diagnostics now....but mycotrds exits normally before it should...i sent you an email about it,,,wondering what should have happened....never got a response... < 1218396404 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so trds is on hold at the moment while i define some more useless fingerprints!!! eheheheheheeheh < 1218396436 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whooo so im using this here dvorak keyboard and im getting faster and faster :o < 1218396456 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: you can always look at CCBI's results to see what should happen < 1218396496 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have looked at CCBI's results,,,,but still not quite sure what the code was doing....did not feel like diving into it.... < 1218396498 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: the problem with TRDS is that it's never obvious what exactly is going on and where, so I can't just tell you where the problem is from your output :-P < 1218396516 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should just crank up the debugger and single step through that section... < 1218396526 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how can you be bored if you haven't resolved this? ;-P < 1218396535 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more interesting than EMEM at least... < 1218396547 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true,,,would be more interesting than EMEM.... < 1218396571 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shall i just mark EMEM as deprecated and mention that nobody should implement it??? eheheeheheheheheheheheheheh < 1218396591 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about, remove it and say it was a stupid idea ;-P < 1218396611 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda like PNTR,,,,very surprised that you have a test for that since PNTR was renamed to INDV very very early... < 1218396629 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you renamed it very very early, why'd you keep it in the readme :-P < 1218396640 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ummmmmmmmmm oversight?????? < 1218396644 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>___< < 1218396654 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember,,,,not terribly good with documentation!!! eheheheheeheheheh < 1218396655 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how about removing that, too < 1218396693 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree that the PNTR should not exist,,,in the original registry it actually appeared as INDV,,,no sense in having 2 names for the same module... < 1218396713 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will remove it from all my documentation if you remove teh tests for it in mycology.... < 1218396721 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1218396731 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if you implement PNTR, don't. < 1218396748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what? < 1218396749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do < 1218396754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INDV/PNTR < 1218396757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are the same iirc < 1218396757 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PNTR and INDV are the same < 1218396757 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see above < 1218396761 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PNTR is ancient < 1218396768 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and an accident that it still exists < 1218396773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it is a valid alias now < 1218396773 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PNTR was renamed to INDV long long ago....at chris's request... < 1218396780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not much you can do about it < 1218396788 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: just remove it. < 1218396811 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing should have ever implemented PNTR...only INDV.... < 1218396812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, do someone want to use PNTR for something else? < 1218396822 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: someone might. < 1218396823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I just map it as an alias to INDV < 1218396832 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, so remove it. < 1218396844 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is how it is in my code now....a pointer to INDV,,,,and that did not happen until mycology wanted to test PNTR.... < 1218396848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? it might break code compatiblity < 1218396860 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should not be any code that uses PNTR.... < 1218396877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if there is? < 1218396890 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the code needs to change PNTR to INDV.... < 1218396918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, anyway why is EMEM a stupid ide? < 1218396919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idea? < 1218396941 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did not say it was a stupid idea....only that it does not have much use... < 1218396952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about for SMEM? < 1218396953 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it is < 1218396958 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SMEM has a use.... < 1218396966 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SMEM I don't know about, but EMEM is utterly pointless < 1218396971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, don't you need to allocate with EMEM first to use it with SMEM? < 1218396989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, not really, for interaction with native code it seems very useful < 1218396991 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you do not...are you familiar with what SysV shared memory is??? < 1218397004 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ... how would you use EMEM to interact with native code < 1218397007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I ever implement the C<->Befunge FFI I planned EMEM seems like a good idea < 1218397020 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you do realize that EMEM would be incompatible with such an FFI < 1218397021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you need to pass pointers to native code sometimes < 1218397028 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and where do you get the pointer from < 1218397028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, how would it? < 1218397032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from EMEM? < 1218397038 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you can't get the pointer from EMEM. < 1218397048 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes and no on that.... < 1218397053 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you only get an abstract handle. < 1218397056 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends how you implement EMEM,,,, < 1218397059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe the FFI would have an "extract pointer from EMEM using handle" < 1218397060 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you use it as a pointer your code is INCORRECT. < 1218397073 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even as an abstract pointer,,,,for my implementation,,,the real pointer is obtainable from the IP data block < 1218397086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, IP data block? < 1218397100 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why do that when you can just call malloc directly from the FFI. < 1218397105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, true < 1218397106 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the data structure that holds all the info for an IP,,,,position, delta, etc... < 1218397117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway there is a reason: < 1218397122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More fingerprints = more features < 1218397133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more features = more potential users < 1218397157 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :valid point there < 1218397160 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so you think it's a good idea to have a huge fingerprint tree, only one of which does something useful, the others are only supporting instructions for that one? :-P < 1218397170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, probably not < 1218397185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the vibrant funge community" is still far from a reality < 1218397186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1218397187 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EMEM would be like that, useless in itself < 1218397228 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not believe that you should have a bunch of fingerprints only to support some other fingerprint.... < 1218397242 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each fingerprint should have its own uses... < 1218397244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been thinking of writing a Funge-93 interpreter in erlang < 1218397249 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree, but EMEM has no uses < 1218397251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mainly as a nice project to learn erlang < 1218397255 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it is,,,,none of my fingerprints require some other fingerprint to be loaded... < 1218397266 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCKE is like that, though < 1218397272 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why I don't like it very much < 1218397284 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really,,,it just added features to SOCK,,, < 1218397296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, idea for a good fingerprint however: < 1218397296 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like JSTR changed features of STRN < 1218397298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCK6 < 1218397305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like SOCK but for IPv6 < 1218397324 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JSTR can be used without STRN, SCKE can't be used without SOCK < 1218397327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe it should become part of SOCK, but I don't like changing existing fingerprints < 1218397334 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree SCK6 would be a good addition < 1218397369 0 :dogface!n=Peggy@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1218397372 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree about changing fingerprints,,,especially ones that have been around a long time.... < 1218397379 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so SCKE makes sense for what it added... < 1218397382 0 :dogface!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I beg to differ. < 1218397402 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok forget the dvorak keyboard < 1218397403 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1218397412 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :changing a fingerprint that somebody might be using,,,can break code...better to make a new one.... < 1218397413 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :========================-=----------------------- < 1218397418 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops < 1218397424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, of course with Funge-108 that would be easy, if you had an uri (gopher://example.org/0/funge/my-hand/my-finger/1.0) then you could make a 2.0 and so on < 1218397427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even better < 1218397446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the author could say that gopher://example.org/0/funge/my-hand/my-finger should map to the last one that is implemented < 1218397448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1218397463 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well...even tho i do not like the uri for the fingerprint name,,,,still nothing but a string compare as far as i am concerned,,,and so yes....could be versioned that way.... < 1218397495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, string compare with some twists, uris are case sensitive, but the domain name isn't < 1218397506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are more details in the rfc < 1218397515 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use case insensitive string cmpare....strcasecmp..... < 1218397524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the rest of it is case sensitive < 1218397531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will need to read up on the details myself < 1218397536 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok,,,,partly then..... < 1218397627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what license is RC/Funge under? < 1218397662 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my own....modify it, use it, copy, distribute,,,no commercial use without my permission,,,,my copyright notices must remain inteact.... < 1218397685 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very close to bsd license,,,,but i disallow commercial use... < 1218397693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, you are interested in section 6 of http://tools.ietf.org/rfc/rfc3986.txt only < 1218397697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a much smaller chunk < 1218397702 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking < 1218397747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, around 6 pages < 1218397756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much much less than the around 72 pages in total < 1218397782 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes,,,,that looks reasonable... < 1218397803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"For this reason, < 1218397803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : determination of equivalence or difference of URIs is based on string < 1218397803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : comparison, perhaps augmented by reference to additional rules < 1218397803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : provided by URI scheme definitions" < 1218397820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those additional rules may be a tiny problem < 1218397847 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is partly why i disagree on uris,,,,solves the problem in too complicated a way... < 1218397867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, it certainly avoids collision issue though < 1218397874 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 4 character one was lousy,,,but i think the uri approach is doing too much... < 1218397881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, you see I had some collision issues with tusho here < 1218397883 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree on the goal...to avoid collisions.... < 1218397890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :regarding handprint < 1218397891 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just think there are better ways to go about it < 1218397892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CFUN < 1218397903 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley is wrong < 1218397904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and same could easily happen for fingerprint < 1218397910 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :URIs are specifically designed to be universal identifiers < 1218397916 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and should be used for this purpose whenever possible < 1218397920 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i understand that...that was the problem with the original method... < 1218397938 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and URIs are the right way to solve it < 1218397945 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they are specifically designed for it < 1218397948 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe so tusho....but i am a believer in the keep it simple philosophy.... < 1218397952 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and interoperability between technologies is a good thing < 1218397955 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and URIs are simple < 1218397959 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't implement them yourself < 1218397960 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you use a library < 1218397960 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and uris do not provide a simple solution to the problem < 1218397968 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you appear to ignore me whenever I say "use a library" < 1218397979 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very against the use of code tht is not mine < 1218397984 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so do not use most libraries < 1218397991 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless they are very standardized... < 1218397996 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :riiiight < 1218397999 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your problem then < 1218398000 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even then,,,,i tend not to use them... < 1218398008 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no disagreement there... < 1218398009 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't use others code = you suffer whenever something non-trivial comes up < 1218398020 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not necesarily... < 1218398026 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"implementing it -from scratch- is complicated" does not mean something is complicated. < 1218398029 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just means i have to code more... < 1218398034 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not have a problem with that... < 1218398042 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somebody else's code also means someobyd else's bugs... < 1218398047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, cfunge use no external libraries that aren't very common (ncurses) or optional (Boehm-GC) < 1218398048 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that may not be fixable by me.... < 1218398050 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for URIs, most people will do uri_parse("..."), then uri_equal(x, y) < 1218398053 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tada < 1218398054 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's simple < 1218398058 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least with my code...i can understand and fix problems < 1218398059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, it does however use some small libraries where the source is included < 1218398062 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and comes with a good standard designed exactly for this behind it < 1218398065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the lib directory < 1218398066 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and interoperability < 1218398067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly 1-2 files < 1218398071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one is 3 iirc < 1218398074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but as you see < 1218398081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such a method could be used < 1218398095 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rc/Funge-98 uses no libraries outside of what can be found in any unix installation... < 1218398107 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uri libraries are small < 1218398107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, so include the code? < 1218398110 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just include it as a c file < 1218398117 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no additional libararies are required...and therefore easier for somebody else to compile and get running.... < 1218398122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, I use a small 2 file hash library for example < 1218398126 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: such as X, which isn't found in most of my unix installations... < 1218398127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I include the source *inside* cfunge < 1218398131 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing i hate more than program where i have to go and find 20 other libraries to get working... < 1218398140 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: so INCLUDE THE SOURCE < 1218398143 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in your source tree < 1218398145 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only one file < 1218398146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-bash: X: command not found < 1218398147 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: package managers and such exist < 1218398154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on one system < 1218398161 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as X,,,do not include those modules...only TURT and WIND use x.... < 1218398163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANYWAY WHY NOT JUST INCLUDE THE C FILE IF IT IS SMALL < 1218398164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do that < 1218398169 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you do not have x....those those are not usefull anyways... < 1218398181 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/X_Window_System < 1218398187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I know < 1218398194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got it on this system though < 1218398196 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :welp, seems MikeRiley is just simply pretending the lines that answer his question don't exist... < 1218398197 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: I might have something else instead, though :-P < 1218398198 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then comes licensing issues when using other people's code....i may not agree with their licensing terms... < 1218398199 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again. < 1218398212 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: there are BSD/MIT licensed uri libs... < 1218398213 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tons of them < 1218398222 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know that.... < 1218398223 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just include them in your source tree < 1218398288 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again,,,do not like including other code within my projects... < 1218398296 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will come up with my own solutions instead... < 1218398303 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: then have fun implementing URIs < 1218398308 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we've offered perfectly good solutions < 1218398310 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just don't like them < 1218398313 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will not implement uris,,,,and do not need to.... < 1218398323 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok then you won't conform to funge-108 < 1218398327 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so have fun with that < 1218398337 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as i can load fingerprints for funge-108,,,then it conforms.... < 1218398350 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you won't be able to if you don't support uris < 1218398351 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and string comparison will accomplish that... < 1218398352 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how can you, without implementing them... < 1218398357 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: no it won't < 1218398359 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uris have case rules < 1218398362 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HTTP:// = http:// < 1218398365 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can deal with the case rules... < 1218398369 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's various things that cancel each other out < 1218398376 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you implement them all you just implemented URIs. < 1218398404 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may do something simpler...case may not really matter...will see when somebody starts making fingerprint names with uris.... < 1218398416 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it will matter < 1218398420 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :until then,,,it is a moot point... < 1218398424 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I hope mycology-108 will test uri equivilence thoroughly < 1218398425 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1218398433 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: I won't be the one to write it :-P < 1218398443 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: hehe, AnMaster might < 1218398449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1218398454 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: mycology-108 < 1218398461 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to test for things like uri equivilence works for loading fingerprints < 1218398463 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like funge-108 as a whole anyhoo, -98 is good enough < 1218398473 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley is claiming that he can implement uri equivilence wrongly and still be conformant < 1218398476 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course it won't be < 1218398481 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since he will consider the same URI as seperate < 1218398486 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus a bug in fingerprint loading < 1218398491 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so mycology-108 should test that < 1218398496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1218398498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1218398499 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will make sure that i can load defined fingerprints,,,and will not claim funge108 complience,,,even tho it mostly will be... < 1218398507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least I will write a few test suites for it < 1218398509 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT claiming conformance... < 1218398517 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: ok. if you just want to be wrong and even though we tell you easy ways to be right, then just fine < 1218398519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, I already got some small test programs to test some parts < 1218398524 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: your loss < 1218398542 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge will be a "funge-108 interpreter" and yours will be a "broken partly-funge-108 interpreter" < 1218398547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck *I* will use an URI library < 1218398550 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is fine....you are right,,,,my loss....since i am probably the only user of Rc/Funge-98 anyways...does not really matter does it??? < 1218398563 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but by that argument I don't even know why you are bothering changing it < 1218398590 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i do use it.... < 1218398602 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if somebody writes funge108 programs,,,i would like to be able to run them... < 1218398607 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compliant or not.... < 1218398612 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: but what if they happen to rely on that weird uri behaviour < 1218398616 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though you won't be able to, if you're not compliant... < 1218398618 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they're insane - after all this is befunge < 1218398622 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt any ever will... < 1218398625 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: O RLY? < 1218398628 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You underestimate esolang programmers. < 1218398641 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If your impl is broken due to some obscure cornercase, you can bet someone will write a program that will break because of it < 1218398644 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but work on compliant impls < 1218398645 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really,,,,we shall see... < 1218398654 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not doubt that!!!! < 1218398654 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think I might < 1218398654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, %63 is same as c I think for exmaple < 1218398660 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case,,,i will fix the corner case... < 1218398670 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: and eventually we'll cover them all < 1218398673 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you'll have implemented URIs < 1218398690 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well...then i will have implemented URIs!!!! the hard way!!!!! eheheheheheheheeheh < 1218398701 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, we were trying to offer the easy way < 1218398715 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that also lets you say 108-compliant. :p < 1218398722 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah,,,but one person's easy way is not necessarily good for anotgher... < 1218398736 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright < 1218398742 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have fun implementing URIs ... over months ... < 1218398750 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :different people....different philosophies... < 1218398766 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guarantee you,,,i will have fun at it!!! even if it takes years.... < 1218398828 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my fun is working on the interpreter....find things that break it,,,,means more fun for me fixing it.... < 1218398862 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycology was the greatest thing ever for my funge fun....found all kinds of problems that needed to be fixed!!!! eheheheheheehh < 1218398888 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: can I help write mycology-108 < 1218398891 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanna include fuzz testing in it < 1218398891 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1218398898 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: what does the UNDEF test in INDV say for RC/Funge-98 < 1218398912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, hah, no fuzz testing would be a separate program < 1218398920 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hold on....let me get it < 1218398921 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no no no it wouldn't be for no-crashness < 1218398925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it could be a part < 1218398927 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be to actually test funge 108 compliance < 1218398931 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: you don't need a new mycology < 1218398933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, yes like mycorand is a separate part < 1218398940 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Testing fingerprint INDV... loaded. < 1218398941 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD: G works < 1218398941 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD: P works < 1218398941 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNDEF: V uses illogical RC/Funge-98 order < 1218398941 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD: W works < 1218398945 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, presumably mycology-108 will be like 5-7 parts < 1218398952 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and mycology108.bf will just do each one < 1218398952 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the only reason mycorand is separate is for befunge-93 < 1218398955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, I think that is said to SHOULD not MUST in most cases < 1218398961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, mycoinput then < 1218398965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and mycotrds < 1218398967 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not just "give the input crap see what it does" < 1218398970 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a constrained range of crap < 1218398971 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: so have you thought about switching to the logical order, and maybe specifying it like that? ;-) < 1218398974 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to test for behaviour < 1218398978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, the software may not implement i and o < 1218398986 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually,,,yes i have thought about it,,,and will actually do that... < 1218398993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, and yes that makes sense < 1218398994 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well yes, it wouldn't use them < 1218398995 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yea < 1218398996 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1218399023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway atm I'm googling for an uri library < 1218399056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.w3.org/Library/src/HTParse.html < 1218399059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems relevant < 1218399064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will need to take a closer look < 1218399074 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes use that one AnMaster < 1218399077 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since its from the w3c < 1218399081 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are pretty good with uris < 1218399081 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1218399085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, yeah :P < 1218399096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need to check license though < 1218399097 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got to run for now...church to go to....thanks for the stimulating conversation!!! and hope my devil's advocate approach does not offend anybody.....bye for now... < 1218399103 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye MikeRiley < 1218399107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, cya < 1218399114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :church? < 1218399116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :church numerals? < 1218399121 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes,,,church... < 1218399127 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: he was making a joke < 1218399129 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a rather lame one) < 1218399136 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take care all!!! < 1218399136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that for lambda calculus? < 1218399140 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes AnMaster < 1218399141 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1218399146 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0=\fx.x < 1218399148 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1=\fx.fx < 1218399152 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2=\fx.f(fx) < 1218399156 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3=\fx.f(f(fx)) < 1218399156 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1218399175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1218399182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get lambda calculus < 1218399187 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've said < 1218400043 0 :kirarinsnow!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1218400512 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :tusho|away < 1218400731 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: do you understand the concept of lambda? < 1218400735 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nameless function < 1218400778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, yes, I seen it in a few languages < 1218400781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like C# < 1218400782 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1218400791 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, lambda calculus is about just having those. < 1218400794 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nothing else < 1218400806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, and no + or - and so on iirc < 1218400810 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1218400815 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turns out we can define things like integers and lists as functions returning other functions < 1218400835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, what does the innermost function return? < 1218400844 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm what? < 1218400847 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1218400855 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it will return a function. < 1218400858 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not called < 1218400869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok.... < 1218400880 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now < 1218400906 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2=\fx.f(fx) <<< this is just a function that takes a function f and a function x, then calls f with f called with x < 1218400915 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so lambda f: lambda x: f(f(x)) < 1218400936 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :takes a function f, returns a function that takes a function x and then calls f with f(x) < 1218400979 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is one way to define numbers in lambda calculus < 1218401009 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a number N in lambda calculus is a function that takes two functions and calls the first one with the latter one N times < 1218401016 0 :tusho|away!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :tusho < 1218401094 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad explanation, better look at what tusho said there < 1218401130 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: AnMaster thinks in c < 1218401136 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at present he has no chance of getting LC < 1218401141 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sjust a fact < 1218401142 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : :) < 1218401151 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course he can get it < 1218401161 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could easily explain it irl < 1218401188 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: except AnMaster generally doesn't grasp anything non-imperative < 1218401191 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've tried to explain lc < 1218401192 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :several times < 1218401855 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1218401855 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1218401856 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1218402132 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1218402190 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-13-104.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1218402355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry was afk, had to mend a broken printer < 1218403009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, about that w3c library, seems it only does normalizing urls < 1218403014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not comparsion < 1218403018 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: uhh < 1218403021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe comparsion is somewhere else in libwww < 1218403023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not same file < 1218403026 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compare = string_equality . normalize < 1218403028 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1218403028 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1218403033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, not 100% < 1218403037 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes... < 1218403049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about uri protocol differences < 1218403053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some have local rules < 1218403056 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, okay the < 1218403057 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n < 1218403141 0 :jix!n=jix@lbck-4dbaf154.pool.einsundeins.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1218403240 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1218403994 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host59-80-dynamic.20-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1218404755 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1218405137 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1218405140 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"À vaincre sans péril on triomphe sans gloire..." < 1218405470 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1218405696 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1218405753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1218406015 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1218406019 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1218406610 0 :psygnisfive!n=psygnisf@c-71-57-164-119.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1218406652 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@j-222.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1218409432 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1218409669 0 :dogface!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ihope < 1218409675 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :dogface < 1218411329 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster-logread-note: < 1218411334 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funge-108 is based on Funge-98 (Pressey, 1998) that is curre < 1218411335 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> which is < 1218411341 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Funge-98 (Pressey, 1998) standard got se1 < 1218411343 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> has se < 1218411354 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This document will be released under either CC-by-sa2 or GFDL when it is finished. As it is not < 1218411355 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet decided on this document is currently under “copyright” however. < 1218411363 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> if you want ESO standardisation use CC-pd < 1218411376 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will likely have more comments later < 1218411502 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.cust.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1218411509 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders what a fractional shiftwidth would look like < 1218411514 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically, pi. < 1218411521 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably it'd start off with three spaces. < 1218411609 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then approx. 1/7th of a column? it's just a matter of allowing non-integer indents, and approximating to the nearest pixel should probably be acceptable? < 1218411638 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: Wouldn't it go 3, 3.1, etc? < 1218411651 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or would it really be 3, .01, .004 - because that'd be quite unusable, obviously < 1218411726 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you meant tabstops at 3.14, 6.28, 9.42 etc < 1218411762 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ofc < 1218411922 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: it actually works quite well < 1218411980 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: http://pastebin.ca/raw/1160950 <- the line feels natural < 1218412242 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1218412382 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone have thoughts?