00:00:03 noones going to actually GO to it 00:00:08 psygnisfive: i beg to differ 00:00:24 i deny you your differing. 00:00:35 psygnisfive: it started last month and has 16 members, most of which are active 00:00:41 and it gets a healthy stream of visits each day 00:00:45 what IS tentaclerapture, btw? 00:00:47 and more members come in every few days 00:00:52 and I'd tell you, but then I'd have to kill you. 00:01:00 and no tentacles would be involved. 00:01:09 -!- nice_ka has changed nick to KingOfKarlsruhe. 00:01:33 D: 00:01:45 ehird/nomads doesnt work as a un/pw combination! 00:01:46 lame. 00:02:05 that would be tusho, anyway 00:02:08 but nomads isn't my password :p 00:02:10 it's *shot* 00:02:17 damn, and I was just about to tell you my password 00:02:19 which is *shot* 00:02:20 what is tentacle rapture? :| 00:02:27 psygnisfive: Secret, that's what. 00:02:31 :o 00:02:33 awesome. 00:02:45 Well, the domain isn't secret. 00:02:51 Access beyond the login page is. 00:05:50 Well, access can't be "secret", more _the thing behind the login page_ is secret 00:05:55 and can only be gained through access 00:06:54 Hmm. 00:06:59 I wonder if anyone has 'password' as their password. 00:07:11 if they do, they should be shot. 00:07:14 That'd probably be ban-worthy. (Except not really. I'd just change it.) 00:07:20 (And slap them if I ever meet them in person.) 00:07:35 so tell me, seriously, whats tr for 00:07:42 Being secret. 00:07:44 besides hosting pictures of your pedobate self? 00:08:04 (And my comics.) 00:08:10 Well, the only thing I can tell you is what you already know. 00:08:13 Everything on the login page. :P 00:08:17 you has comics 00:08:17 ? 00:08:25 http://tentaclerapture.com/milkweasal/1 00:08:34 if you don't laugh at each and every one of them you're mentally damaged 00:08:56 p.s. yes I know it's spelt weasel 00:09:01 weasals are the exact opposite of weasels. 00:09:19 i dont get the norway one :O 00:09:24 also, if you don't find some of them funny, say "glass plate" then look at it again 00:09:27 you should burst into flames. 00:09:28 and laughter. 00:09:41 i dont get it :( 00:09:58 psygnisfive: Then you must be mentally damaged! :p 00:10:04 oh very 00:10:11 yeah 00:10:13 we should lock you up 00:10:20 maybe you'll laugh at #3 00:10:24 it is hilarious after all 00:10:39 it all looks like just.. art. 00:10:41 not comic 00:11:40 that's what rodger said (see #4) 00:11:42 but then 00:11:44 I bought a comic license 00:11:54 it costs ยฃ5,000,000 and it lets you call one thing you own a comic 00:12:03 ha :) 00:12:03 plus it's pretty hilarious so there 00:12:43 i dont get 3 :D 00:12:54 i see a slight pattern in this 00:12:54 :D 00:13:09 fuck 00:13:15 i killed the dock and now it wont restart 00:13:24 psygnisfive: open terminal, open -a Dock? 00:13:34 i cant get to the terminal! 00:13:38 psygnisfive: yes you can 00:13:42 desktop -> harddrive 00:13:47 -> applications -> utilities -> terminal 00:13:49 open -a Dock 00:13:50 voila 00:13:52 i cant get to the harddrive since its not on my desktop 00:13:59 but i do have a way to get to the terminal, i remembered 00:14:01 i have quicksilver 00:14:02 :D 00:14:06 psygnisfive: or click desktop, cmd-n 00:14:15 but my harddrive isnt on the desktop 00:14:25 psygnisfive: it doesn't need to be 00:14:28 desktop focuses finder 00:14:31 cmd-n in finder opens hd 00:14:33 well 00:14:34 opens ~ 00:14:34 oh youre right 00:14:38 well no matter 00:14:41 i have QS 00:14:45 i forgot it did :X 00:14:57 oh, and if you really want to know what TR is, then the login page should be helpful 00:15:25 rodger-style riddlegame!? 00:15:55 no... 00:15:58 just look at the damn login page 00:15:59 :P 00:16:40 i am D: 00:16:57 psygnisfive: are you blind or something 00:16:59 look at ALL of it 00:17:00 :P 00:17:19 i am! its just a login form and some copyright stuff 00:17:31 so examine both parts 00:17:49 "Lussumo Vanilla, Swell, and People Copyright ยฉ 2001-2006" 00:17:53 what about it 00:18:01 there's a link, dude. :P 00:18:06 yes i went there 00:18:29 it's the forum package TR uses, it's a private forum with an alglamation of people from various places over the web 00:18:43 (though a custom rewrite is coming soon because the current software is fucking us around.) 00:18:54 ok so its a forum, thats not the question :P 00:19:01 ok, what is the question then 00:19:05 whats it FOR 00:19:30 discussing/sharing ideas. creations. amusing things. random crap. 00:19:35 NOMADS 00:19:38 yes 00:19:40 nomads too 00:19:43 thats what you are! you are nomads! 00:19:46 cybernomads! 00:19:56 all that was actually a total lie 00:19:59 when you log into tentaclerapture 00:20:02 you see ... nomads 00:20:04 you see them 00:20:04 roaming outside the well built up and mapped territory of cyberspace 00:20:06 you see them all 00:20:12 you see the very essence of nomads - themselves 00:20:13 treading where few have gone 00:20:17 and then you die. 00:20:21 you are the net gypsies 00:20:27 the web wanderers 00:20:32 * oerjan wonders if you can be a cybernomad without your body ever moving 00:20:47 oerjan: cyberspace is a realm of ideas, of mind, pure thought and meme 00:20:59 and porn 00:21:03 mostly porn. 00:21:31 porn is arguably a meme 00:22:13 oh so i have this rather large, 17 inch long gigantic dildo and last night, to my delight, i found a video on xtube of a guy taking the ENTIRE length 00:22:21 its not very flexible either 00:22:23 <3 00:22:35 wonderful 00:22:51 we ... really needed to know that 00:23:00 ;) 00:23:01 oerjan: i think now you give us a terrible pun 00:23:03 to break the silence 00:23:29 theres no silence 00:23:35 -!- Judofyr has quit. 00:23:42 you have 16 active users on a page with your comics? 00:23:45 tusho, i want you to help me come up with ideas. 00:23:48 you too oklopol. 00:23:51 what the fuck :) 00:23:59 oklopol: no I just dump the comics on the same domain 00:24:00 duh 00:24:00 :P 00:24:09 http://tentaclerapture.com/ is the real dealie 00:24:13 well, the login page that you see isn't. 00:24:15 also you fuckers talked so fast logs went past the screen and i have to open logreader again 00:24:27 the entire website is about that log in page 00:24:35 psygnisfive: awww 00:24:36 the log in page is a sort of social nexus for discussion 00:24:37 you found me out 00:24:38 tusho: the silence is already broken, so i cannot fix it. er, wait. 00:24:38 #esoteric: the kink channel? 00:24:45 people go to the login page and discuss things 00:24:55 psygnisfive: with telepathy, yes 00:24:58 it's powered by nomads 00:25:00 exactly! 00:25:10 cybernomad powered electronic telepathy 00:25:35 psygnisfive: link 00:25:53 its a telepathic link, unfortunately. i cant give one to you unless you're a cybernomad. 00:25:54 psygnisfive: to what, the video or TR 00:25:58 http://tentaclerapture.com/ <- TR 00:26:04 i have no fucking idea, ask psy <- video 00:26:07 *psygnisfive 00:26:19 i dont even know what hes asking for a link to 00:26:21 video ofc 00:26:26 video of hat? 00:26:28 what* 00:26:32 [00:22:15] oh so i have this rather large, 17 inch long gigantic dildo and last night, to my delight, i found a video on xtube of a guy taking the ENTIRE length 00:26:38 HAT VIDEO. VIDEO OF ALL SORTS OF HATS. 00:26:43 HABERDASHERS ABOUND. 00:26:47 oh, that? lemme find it 00:26:55 also tusho would make a cute girl, but then again so would many boys his age 00:27:04 http://video.xtube.com/watch.php?v_user_id=liltex&cv=0&idx=5&v=Joc0v-G419-&cl=fB3Bi-G419-&from=&ver=3&ccaa=1&qid=&qidx=&qnum=&video_type=0 00:27:12 he's more boy than girl still, imo 00:27:22 thanks 00:27:40 they're not cute guys tho :( 00:27:44 oklopol, you should make porn. 00:27:44 psygnisfive: what do you mean by "taking"? 00:27:46 * tusho moves #esoteric -> #porn 00:27:53 hmm 00:27:57 * tusho moves #porn -> #gayporn 00:28:02 taking, as in, he inserts the whole 13+ insertable inches in his ass. 00:28:22 no its probably 14 inches insertable 00:28:28 Oh. 00:28:44 no bad, not bad 00:28:47 dogface: were you imagining him, like, picking it up 00:28:54 as opposed to only picking a few inches of it up 00:28:55 tusho: It's not gay, it's for those who like men. (you never know; there could be a girl into guys with dildos) 00:28:56 its pretty impressive, to have that whole thing inside you 00:29:01 then again 00:29:08 i HAVE seen guys get fisted up to the shoulder 00:29:12 which blows my mind 00:29:20 pikhq: But the only people talking about the video are gay/bi guys. :P 00:29:22 That's got to do some damage. 00:29:27 tusho: Ah. Well, then. 00:29:38 psygnisfive: Mmm. I love rearranging internal organs. 00:29:41 pikhq: i dont know, man. who knows. 00:29:45 Actually, I'm straight, and going "... That's a fucking huge dildo." 00:29:54 that's a cool trick 00:29:57 (and male) 00:30:06 lots of straight guys enjoy getting dildos. 00:30:07 How easy is it to rearrange the internal organs? 00:30:10 So: impressed, yes. Turned on, not really. 00:30:20 awesome vid, but not really much sexier than someone swallowing a teapot 00:30:21 what gets you off sexually can be complicated with relation to notions like sexuality 00:30:26 psygnisfive: Said guys are probably not turned on by images of other guys getting dildos. :p 00:30:33 pikhq: indeed 00:30:43 pikhq: hahahaha i'd love to watch a series of porn reviews done in the style of regular movie criticism 00:30:49 :D 00:30:55 That would be brilliant. 00:30:55 that'd be hilarious 00:30:58 an interesting fetish some straight guys have is "forced homosexuality" 00:31:02 they dont like guys, nor sex with guys 00:31:11 but they like it when a dominatrix forces them to have sex with a guy 00:31:24 because its that whole humiliation/degredation/submission thing 00:31:37 People have probably gotten off to SWAP.AVI. 00:31:41 Easy enough that the abdomen is not completely rigid, removing the appendix doesn't leave a hole in you, and the stomach is not filled with air when empty. And we can breathe. 00:31:46 (The thought of that both highly amuses me and highly disturbs me.) 00:31:46 swap.avi?? 00:31:56 psygnisfive: http://www.somethingawful.com/d/horrors-of-porn/horrible-saga-swapavi.php 00:32:07 An epic saga. 00:32:24 can you just describe it? 00:32:38 Not easy enough that--oh, never mind. 00:32:44 psygnisfive: A member of the something awful forums says he's found a brazillian service where you can requset porn videos to be made. 00:32:58 They compile a final description of what they want, which is hilariously over-the-top because they don't believe the poster. 00:33:00 Oh my dear *lord*. 00:33:06 Finally, he solicits donations and ... no return. He is banned. 00:33:09 A bit later? 00:33:13 The link to SWAP.avi is posted. 00:33:26 oh, its an absurdist scat film? 00:33:42 psygnisfive: It involves something awful memes at the start, too. 00:33:45 That's pretty absurd. 00:33:49 thats awesome 00:33:52 its like art 00:34:00 someone should make an exhibit out of it, it'd be awesome 00:34:06 less talking, more linking 00:34:31 http://i.somethingawful.com//sasbi/2006/12/elpintogrande/swap8.jpg <- Image You Should Not View Ever #8. 00:34:52 looks like a scene from 2 Girls 1 Cup, reprise 00:34:54 Computers are not so flexible. Then again, they must be rigid so that their lungs don't collapse, causing death by hyperthermia. 00:35:00 psygnisfive: googling found me this torrent 00:35:04 http://btjunkie.org/torrent/SWAP-AVI-Metis-scat-swapping-film-from-MFX-Video/43240c2c564970d6f180381ba38634f872fcb2e6480c 00:35:08 well i dont want to watch it 00:35:10 -!- moozilla has quit ("- nbs-irc 2.37 - www.nbs-irc.net -"). 00:35:13 that's actually from a vid from the 2girls1cup page 00:35:17 the link has a time-ordered scene breakdown 00:35:21 :D 00:35:30 oklopol: no it's not 00:35:33 it predates 2g1c 00:35:34 seen the original too, it's like an hour long film 00:35:44 well yeah 00:35:47 but it's linked on the page 00:36:05 there were 3 short vids at some point 00:36:18 ah 00:36:30 ah 00:36:31 http://www.swapavi.com/swap.avi 00:36:33 non-torrent version 00:36:38 hmm 00:36:39 only 1mb 00:36:39 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit ("Konversation terminated!"). 00:36:41 can't be the full thing 00:36:45 I refuse to watch it. 00:36:50 so im guessing the porn-on-request place is real 00:36:54 thats actually cool. 00:37:08 pikhq: not the full thing anyway, I imagine 00:37:10 I guess if we had no bones, we wouldn't be as able to breathe, but computers tend to use more energy than we do, meaning they have to eliminate more heat, plus their circulatory systems don't reach the surface. 00:37:13 the full thing is like 100mb 00:37:15 What is scat, by the way? 00:37:15 (or was it 500, whatever) 00:37:20 psygnisfive: Disturbing, but cool. 00:37:25 dogface: Porn involving shit. 00:37:32 I was about to reply 00:37:36 but pikhq said it best 00:37:36 Oh. 00:37:55 -!- oerjan has quit ("Just about had enough"). 00:38:01 tusho: i only got like the first 5 seconds. 00:38:02 :) 00:38:21 i want to have a porn company some day 00:38:26 -!- moozilla has joined. 00:38:27 * tusho imagines swap.avi being reviewed in serious, somber film-critic style 00:38:31 *SWAP.avi 00:39:21 Make porn based on anagrams of "dagflox". 00:39:28 i've seen the opening, but i think mfx has used it on many films 00:39:34 so hard to say what that is 00:39:51 (the beginning of linked swap.avi) 00:40:00 tusho: we should do it. 00:40:06 we should make a review podcast like that. 00:40:13 psygnisfive: no, it'd have to be a video review 00:40:15 for the formal attire 00:40:16 or it could be one episode of our podcast 00:40:25 heres how i envision it 00:40:26 dogface: gold fax 00:40:28 also, I do not sound like a film critic 00:40:31 and I look like a film critic even less 00:40:32 :P 00:40:35 it cant be a podcast where you see the video itself 00:40:37 shouldn't be hard to turn into porn 00:40:45 it has to be something where you cant tell what we're reviewing 00:40:51 until well into it 00:40:52 like 00:40:52 oklopol: you can't make porn without dog flax. 00:41:01 you listen for 15 minutes and it could be a review of _anything_ 00:41:01 psygnisfive: aww, it'd prefer it to be really damn obvious 00:41:04 what's flax? 00:41:08 like, it starts with the start of the porn 00:41:10 but then it gets progressively more.. fucked up sounding 00:41:17 then moves out so that you can see the screen and the reviewer 00:41:25 and he gives a somber, serious, in-depth, critical analysis of it 00:41:33 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | if you consider _really_ severe dyslexia retarded... (so bad that you cannot even say if your spell checker's suggestions are correct). 00:41:37 there was that one essay on 2girls1cup 00:41:40 and then it cuts to after the film 00:41:44 and he's sitting 00:41:46 and gives his final thoughts 00:41:47 teacher's comments were priceless 00:41:49 and then it's over 00:41:56 optbot! 00:41:57 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | they're all kept with the distribution to avoid line number clashes. 00:41:59 optbot! 00:41:59 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | parse_ski. unless that has nothing to do with SKI calculus. 00:42:00 optbot! 00:42:01 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | 22.. 00:42:38 i recognize two of those 4 00:42:51 (i think) 00:45:34 "And we see here the stylistic device very much associated with the minimalistic work of Johnson - notice the bare, sparse feel yet fluidity of the movement and its inherent interlinking with the intensely minimalistic - some would even claim missing - musical score." - a friend after hearing of this "somber, serious, film critic-style review of porn" idea 00:46:37 yeah johnson has a tiny cock 00:46:46 i think i'll work on fugue now 00:47:17 tusho: :D 00:50:36 brb faggots 00:53:04 is that 'be right back because of faggots' 00:53:06 or 'faggots: brb' 00:54:23 bye for today 00:55:04 the latter 00:55:08 the former would be better 00:55:28 -!- tusho has quit ("Leaving..."). 00:56:55 oklopol 00:56:55 pms 01:03:40 oklopol! 01:03:42 oklopol! 01:03:43 oklopol! 01:03:45 oklopol! 01:10:48 :o 01:18:58 That seems curiously urgent. 01:19:19 it was 01:19:24 yeah he wanted my babies 01:19:27 i needed somewhere to cum 01:19:42 see his mouth, ready for my spunk? 01:19:53 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 01:21:26 'be right back because of faggots' can mean either "i leave, but i'll return later cuz i like ya faggots", or "i leave for a while, since there are hot faggies here" 01:22:18 really the latter only because be right back is only the expanding of brb, otherwise just the latter 01:22:20 ... 01:22:23 former 01:22:31 ... 01:22:43 s/latter latter/former/! 01:25:11 latter ladder 01:25:20 Maybe s/latter/former/g to replace all instances. 01:26:01 And I guess more often "brb foo" is "will be right back; going away because of foo". 01:27:34 no i think "brb, foo" has that interpretation more so 01:27:40 "brb foo" is more vocative on foo 01:27:42 "brb guys" 01:27:48 i disagree 01:27:57 Dunno, I think I've seen stuff like "brb food". 01:28:03 agree with fizzie 01:28:03 oh ofcourse 01:28:07 and i use that 01:28:19 it could depend on what foo is 01:28:27 Unless you're thinking of other people on channel as food, I'm not ruling that out. 01:28:50 my point was exactly that once you expand it, you can interpret it as either 01:28:53 however now we're talking about the selectional requirements of "brb" 01:28:57 which gets into theoretical syntax 01:29:01 and i need oklopol pure 01:29:03 so stop :P 01:29:20 i've already seen one of your crazy syntax trees! 01:29:25 ;) 01:29:26 which one? 01:29:31 did i show you the Generative Semantics one? 01:29:38 it was about that... 01:29:39 hmm 01:29:42 I somehow read that as "and i need oklopol porn". I think it's because I just reviewed what you were talking about while I slept for a bit there. 01:29:52 i need oklopol porn too, actually 01:30:07 oklopol 01:30:09 give me you porn 01:30:19 psygnisfive: you were arguing about english grammar 01:30:26 don't remember the exact context 01:30:37 you addressed me in pm later about some comment of mine 01:30:42 can i show you something from some research done in the late 60s early 70s? 01:31:00 (i showed an error in your thinking, and you showed me how i sucked ass like there's no tomorrow) 01:31:11 (and i was like :<) 01:31:16 (well no really i don't remember.) 01:31:19 oh but you DO suck ass 01:31:21 among other things 01:31:22 =3 01:31:28 back then, there were some students of chomsky's that broke away from mainstream syntax of the time to form their own school of thought on syntax 01:31:31 *not 01:32:01 namely, they wanted to account for all cases of synonymy by supposing certain things 01:32:08 the result of which was that simple 01:32:09 SIMPLE 01:32:16 sentences like "Floyd broke the vase" 01:32:23 end up having amazingly complex structures 01:32:37 infact, that sentence, by their theories, has 8, EIGHT, subsentences. 01:32:44 :D 01:32:46 awesome 01:33:02 http://wellnowwhat.net/linguistics/lolgs.png 01:33:11 Floyd broke the glass* 01:33:24 but the structure would be the same none the less. 01:33:39 ofc 01:33:54 "it that it that it that Floyd DO it that Floyd CAUSE it that it that it that the glass broken BE INCHOATIVE HAPPEN PAST TO YOU". Hehe. 01:33:54 suffice it to say, generative semantics didnt last long and wasn't ever taken seriously 01:34:20 Oh, I missed the "I DECLARE" part at the beginning somehow. 01:34:24 yes 01:34:42 i hope this doesnt spoil you, oklopol. 01:34:42 :P 01:35:13 inchoative? 01:35:26 I THUS DECLARE 01:35:38 brb guys, i have to go shopping 01:35:52 oklopol, we'll go over the syntax stuff when i get back 01:35:54 ::kiss:: 01:35:56 :o 01:36:03 err it's like half past 4 01:36:06 oh 01:36:08 thats right 01:36:10 you're in finland 01:36:12 whole finland is asleep. 01:36:16 well ill talk to you tomorrow baout it then 01:36:17 except for me and fizzie 01:36:23 see ya 01:36:27 yarr i'm free tomorrow 01:36:41 "Get a room, guys." 01:37:00 :) 01:37:16 ::kisses fizzie:: ;O 01:37:18 bye 01:37:32 bye 01:37:48 For tusho's log-reading purposes: I think the gnome-vfs access might well be from Epiphany, that gnome web browser. I think for consistency it uses the gnome-vfs functions for all URLs. 01:38:02 hmm 01:38:07 perhaps i should leave him a message too 01:38:17 tusho: hi i think i'll drink some water now 01:38:21 -> 01:40:05 -!- fizzie has quit ("switching hostname back"). 01:40:12 -!- fizzie has joined. 01:40:39 (fungot doesn't like my commands if they do not come with this particular nick!user@host prefix.) 01:42:48 does it die given an infloop? 01:43:00 It shouln't, if you mean the ^bf command. 01:43:02 ^bf +[] 01:43:04 ...out of time! 01:43:30 It prints that and stops after executing 10k bf instructions. 01:43:37 :| 01:43:57 well it printed that, and i asked kingofkarlsruhe if he printed that, or it was a timeout 01:44:06 and he said it was him 01:44:20 lier! i prolly just misunderstood, but anyway 01:44:23 *liar 01:44:25 okokokor 01:44:46 Well, it could've been him. 01:45:14 no 01:45:16 it couldn't 01:45:30 ^bf +++++++++++[>++++>+++>++++++++++>++++++++++<<<<-]>>-.<++...>>>+.++++++.-.<<.>+.---------.<.>>.<+++.++++.--------.<.<------.>>>-.<----.>++++++.------.<<.>------------------------.<<+.>+. 01:45:30 ...out of time (says I)! 01:45:58 see? it adds some random shit in the end 01:46:06 "(says I)!" 01:46:31 must've been the timeout 01:47:47 Must go to do the sleeping thing, there's a semi-early train trip tomorrow. (Or at least prepare-to-go-to-sleep thing, then I'll come back to do a minor alteration to fungot.) 01:48:31 what's that alteration? 01:51:19 -!- Figs has joined. 01:51:22 hello 01:51:34 We can has bot? 01:51:43 ^bf +[+.] 01:51:43 ............................. !"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~€‚ƒ„…†‡ˆ‰Š‹ŒŽ‘’“”•–—˜™š›œžŸ กขฃคฅฆงจฉชซฌญฎฏฐฑฒณดตถทธนบปผฝพฟภมยรฤลฦวศษสหฬอฮฯะ ... 01:51:47 :D 01:52:22 ^bf >++++++++++[<++++>-]<. 01:52:22 ( 01:52:35 ^bf >++++++++++[<++++>-]<.+.+. 01:52:36 ()* 01:52:45 cool 01:52:54 Sveet. 01:53:17 did you see my evil invention yesterday? 01:53:19 http://rafb.net/p/t2kLGX37.html 01:53:24 I get the feeling *someone* has created an Egobot replacement. :D 01:53:32 Well, it's the *start* of an evil invention, at least... 01:53:40 not sure what to do with it next 01:54:58 pikhq; If you hadn't noticed, fungot is written in Funge-98 with the SOCK fingerprint, so it's implementation-wise suitable for this channel too. 01:55:26 That's *brilliant*. 01:55:30 Just *brilliant*. 01:55:47 I mean, really: I love you. 01:56:06 -!- jix has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 01:56:45 http://zem.fi/~fis/fungot.b98.txt has them sources, although it lacks the separate "loader" part, and is not the completely latest version. 02:03:05 -!- fungot has quit ("relocated ^reload so that it handles changes in the IRC code"). 02:03:18 -!- fungot has joined. 02:04:20 Now to check if I broke it. 02:04:22 ^bf +[] 02:04:24 ...out of time! 02:04:27 ^reload 02:04:31 ^bf +++++++++. 02:04:39 Heh, I did, in fact, break it. 02:04:52 -!- fungot has quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)). 02:05:14 That was a bit less impressive than I was hoping for. Next time I'll test first and deploy later. 02:06:14 Figs: i don't get it 02:06:25 Right, there's a 0 missing. 02:06:25 Hmm? :) 02:06:31 i mean 02:06:46 are you just summing 0..n until it's more than 100? 02:07:05 z[n] is a variable length array 02:07:33 You should get 0, 1 1, 2 2 2, 3 3 3 3, 4 4 4 4 4, ... 02:07:35 in the array 02:07:36 IIRC 02:07:38 yeah, and you fill it, including the element after the last element, with n 02:07:39 right 02:07:47 int k = n; 02:07:47 do 02:07:47 z[k]=n-1; 02:07:53 why not k = n-1 02:08:01 isn't that crashy 02:08:12 I wrote it at like 1 am or whatever :P 02:08:35 -Wall -pedantic didn't catch it, and I didn't notice ;P 02:08:54 oh 02:09:19 it was a blinking red zone in my eyes 02:09:58 but right for some reason i read z[k]=n-1; as z[k]=n..; 02:09:59 *n-- 02:10:04 but 02:10:13 that still wouldn't work like i described 02:11:58 I wrote it at like 1 am, so *shrug*; the big idea was to use a label called While that takes a parameter that's ignored, a disguised free {} block within main, and a resized variable length array 02:12:06 -!- fungot has joined. 02:12:10 ^bf +[] 02:12:12 ...out of time! 02:12:14 ^reload 02:12:15 ^bf +[] 02:12:18 ...out of FOOD! 02:12:20 Yay. 02:12:21 O_o 02:12:34 ^bf +[<] 02:12:44 ^reload 02:12:49 ^bf +[<] 02:12:59 Borken. 02:13:05 I think that just generated no output. And ^reload is not accepted from anyone else than me. Makes sense, since only I can change the code. 02:13:09 ^bf +[] 02:13:11 ...out of FOOD! 02:13:13 ^reload 02:13:14 ^bf +[] 02:13:16 ...out of time! 02:13:25 ^bf +[] 02:13:28 ...out of time! 02:13:35 ^bf +[>] 02:13:39 The +[<] loop stops after one iteration, since the next cell is zero. 02:13:46 ^bf +[>+] 02:13:48 ...out of time! 02:13:50 ^bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++[.] 02:13:51  ... 02:14:01 :D 02:14:30 ^bf +[<+] 02:14:30 ^bf ++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>++++++++++[.] 02:14:31 ...out of time! 02:14:31 nnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn ... 02:14:42 There's an output length limit of 15*15 characters. 02:14:50 +bf +[++.] 02:15:06 fizzie: how come you program befunge better than most people code mainstream languages? 02:15:28 ^bf >++++++++++++++++++++[<++++++++++++++++++++>-]. 02:15:29 . 02:15:35 Because most people code mainstream languages suckily. 02:15:36 ^bf ++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]+++++++++++++>++++++++++[.<.---.+++>] 02:15:37 n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n..n.. ... 02:15:44 ^bf 02:16:13 fizzie: what does 15*15 mean? 02:16:21 Oh, and characters [0,30] or so are filtered to ., otherwise tusho would just use it to output "\r\nJOIN #ubuntu\r\nPRIVMSG #ubuntu :arrr thar any gays here?" again. 02:16:24 if you convert 13 and 10 to . 02:16:32 :) 02:17:04 fizzie: Oh, so you actually *recall* our insanity. :D 02:17:20 even i recall that, it was like yesterday 02:17:59 ^bf ----------. 02:17:59 ๖ 02:18:04 I didn't want to bother with it interpreting newlines and writing the "PRIVMSG #chan :" prefix multiple times. Although I guess I could have. 02:18:14 oklopol: I wasn't on then. 02:18:24 Also, we've done the same to Egobot in the distant past. 02:18:35 Cells are one byte wide and wrap-around; the array is also only 1000 cells wide. 02:18:37 I think it was ehird/tusho that started it, actually. 02:18:53 pikhq: it's been done to every bot, of course :) 02:18:56 ^bf +[+>]. 02:18:57 . 02:19:03 but that gay ubuntu thing was a few days ago 02:19:07 oklopol: Every bot with customisable output, of course. 02:19:43 ^bf +[+>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>] 02:19:43 fizzie: so... what does "15*15" mean? :D 02:19:45 fungot had a free-for-all ^raw for an hour or so, but... now it's nick!user@host-limited to me. 02:19:54 Figs: you fail at bf 02:20:14 I'm not trying to do anything useful :P 02:20:29 well that just incs a cell twice and ends 02:20:34 :D 02:20:40 it definitely looks like you tried to make an infloop :D 02:20:48 but guess you fooled me :P 02:20:56 okay, i'll try sleeping again.asfpok -> 02:21:00 oklopol; 225, I think. "ff*" was the largest number I could get with three characters, although I guess I could have used a funge-space cell and something "99g"-like. 02:21:05 ^bf +[>+] 02:21:07 you mean? :P 02:21:08 ...out of time! 02:21:50 ^bf I'm a little teapot, short and stout! 02:21:56 It's there around row 99: ff*`#^_ 02:22:15 ^bf +[,.]!it does input like this 02:22:15 it does input like this. 02:22:49 ^bf +[,.]!\r\n:D 02:22:49 \r\n:D. 02:24:37 ^bf >[,>]<[.<]!olleH 02:24:46 duh 02:24:54 maybe I do suck at BF today :P 02:25:03 ^bf >+[,>]<[.<]!olleH 02:25:03 o 02:26:14 ^bf +[-.+] 02:26:15 ............................................................................................................................................................................................................... ... 02:27:58 ^bf >+[>,]<[.<]!olleH 02:27:58 Hello. 02:28:16 (The dot is that '1' cell there, didn't bother to fix it.) 02:29:24 O_o 02:29:40 I really am out of it today. 02:29:59 haha, wtf was I thinking ,> :| 02:39:18 ^reload 02:40:21 (Did not change much, just made ^bf replies work right if done in privmsg to the bot. It used to reply to the privmsg target, since it worked on channels. Now if the target doesn't begin with #, it instead uses the 'nick' from the nick!user@host prefix.) 02:43:01 That was really simple, just a 02:43:01 >06g'#-!#v_ 04g!#^_ 1>:4g:!#v_'!-#v_v 02:43:04 v < P60 G41 $$<0 p4\ 0< 02:43:07 ^ +1< 02:43:20 (Although for some reason the copy-paste had lots of spaces there.) 02:43:29 Easier to write than copy-paste correctly. 02:45:46 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 02:50:05 hey oklopol, did you ever get around to playing my song...? 02:52:11 Hah, I broke ^reload with that change, since it 0s the ! in the prefix. The stupefity. 03:02:29 -!- fungot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 03:02:42 -!- fungot has joined. 03:02:56 05am is a good time to go to sleep. -> 03:03:03 :P 03:07:44 I wonder how long it took me to realize that sharks are fish. 03:08:14 I'm gonna head off 03:08:15 cyaz 03:08:16 -!- Figs has left (?). 03:11:52 oklopol! 03:45:19 http://www.spinnoff.com/zbb/viewtopic.php?p=631847#631847 03:54:46 read it bitches 04:40:39 -!- adu has joined. 04:59:52 -!- dogface has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:13:46 -!- dogface has joined. 05:23:15 -!- dogface has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 06:03:27 -!- Sgeo has quit (Remote closed the connection). 06:41:33 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | silly :D. 07:18:04 -!- adu has quit. 07:53:43 -!- asiekierka has joined. 07:58:20 { } 07:58:21 | 07:58:22 _|_ 07:58:28 light the space 07:58:31 the fungespace 07:58:34 the webspace 07:58:37 the diskspace 07:58:53 the fat16space 07:58:59 the boringpace 07:59:23 the stupidace 07:59:30 the coolyace 07:59:45 the windowsce 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:00:08 the endof 08:00:12 the song. 08:38:51 ... 08:43:40 I'm gonna remove all my old, already spammed and linked a lot forums, maybe that'll make 500's a little rarer. 09:03:12 -!- asiekierka has quit. 09:18:54 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 09:20:25 -!- oklofok has joined. 09:25:05 -!- optbot has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 09:25:06 -!- Deewiant has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 09:25:07 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 09:25:07 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 09:25:08 -!- AnMaster has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 09:25:09 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 09:25:09 -!- fizzie has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 09:25:10 -!- psygnisfive has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 09:25:10 -!- sebbu has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 09:25:11 -!- pikhq has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 09:25:11 -!- Tritonio_ has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 09:25:12 -!- Quendus has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 09:25:12 -!- fungot has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 09:25:12 -!- dbc has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 09:25:12 -!- rodgort has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 09:25:12 -!- SimonRC has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 09:25:13 -!- mtve has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 09:25:13 -!- oklofok has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 09:25:13 -!- Kevin` has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 09:25:14 -!- moozilla has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 09:25:14 -!- jemarch has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 09:25:15 -!- lifthrasiir has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 09:25:15 -!- cmeme has quit (clarke.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 09:26:48 -!- oklofok has joined. 09:26:48 -!- fungot has joined. 09:26:48 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 09:26:48 -!- fizzie has joined. 09:26:48 -!- moozilla has joined. 09:26:48 -!- psygnisfive has joined. 09:26:48 -!- pikhq has joined. 09:26:48 -!- Deewiant has joined. 09:26:48 -!- jemarch has joined. 09:26:48 -!- Tritonio_ has joined. 09:26:48 -!- sebbu has joined. 09:26:48 -!- Kevin` has joined. 09:26:48 -!- AnMaster has joined. 09:26:48 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 09:26:48 -!- dbc has joined. 09:26:48 -!- RodgerTheGreat has joined. 09:26:48 -!- rodgort has joined. 09:26:48 -!- SimonRC has joined. 09:26:48 -!- optbot has joined. 09:26:48 -!- Quendus has joined. 09:26:48 -!- mtve has joined. 09:26:48 -!- lifthrasiir has joined. 09:26:48 -!- cmeme has joined. 09:35:37 hey oklofok 09:35:39 <3you 09:36:53 and computers whether things will al end as they should 09:37:07 computers? 09:37:12 computes? 09:37:29 al? names should be capitalized! 09:38:02 Well, the truth is that P cannot possibly be, 09:38:02 because if you wrote it and gave it to me, 09:38:02 I could use it to set up a logical bind 09:38:02 that would shatter your reason and scramble your mind. 09:38:04 this is nice 09:43:21 as a summary, computers process information faster than humans... and that's all, because they don't think... 10:03:21 i don't really get that wanking around humans being fundamentally better than computers @ solving impossible problems, religious people should not comment on mathematical issues 10:10:45 oklofok 10:10:48 have you gone mad? 10:11:10 or have you stayed the same? 10:11:10 :o 10:11:13 ::kiss:: 10:11:15 i have to sleep 10:11:18 night crazyboy 10:11:20 <3 10:24:30 night 10:24:35 and no, i'm not madder than usually 10:31:25 http://tentaclerapture.com/lulz/photo2.jpg 10:31:25 you still look like a girl but ok. 10:31:28 oh yes you do 10:32:26 I guess I blame the long hair 10:32:41 your face could be either gender 10:36:05 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Jesus loves you"). 11:02:26 AnMaster: FSPACEBOUNDS: is the max relative to the min, like in y? 11:03:39 * AnMaster checks 11:03:56 AnMaster: not said in the PDF... 11:04:35 well seems reasonable 11:04:38 I will make it say that 11:04:52 IMHO it makes more sense for it to be absolute 11:04:52 Deewiant, wait a sec 11:04:59 ok 11:05:24 I guess the reason it's relative in funge is that it's tricky to do the subtractions with only the stack, if you need relative (for i for instance) 11:05:44 but here we're not assuming that the frontend is written in funge... 11:07:06 indeed 11:07:11 but it could be, using SOCK 11:07:26 Deewiant, I'll make it absolute 11:08:21 bbiab 11:09:33 -!- asiekierka has joined. 11:10:19 -!- Judofyr has joined. 11:13:11 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 11:15:32 Yay 11:15:43 I have an unfinished implementation of bfIRC 11:15:49 which doesn't help me anything :( 11:15:53 I must make it myself seems. 11:27:43 yes, you must 11:27:48 what's bfirc? 11:27:54 No wait, he finished it 11:28:04 BFirc is my little modification of BF to add irc functionalities 11:28:14 my friend, darktemplar, implemented it 11:28:22 okay, and how are you going to add them? 11:28:38 basically, , is changed and output data is saved to a buffer, and a new command is there 11:28:49 _ - output the buffer data to IRC 11:29:24 i would skip the buffer; can you take input from keyboard anymore? 11:29:29 or is it just for bots? 11:29:33 Just for bots. 11:29:41 It's a lang just for making IRCbots. 11:29:50 I basically made it to see if i can beat fungot and make an IRCbot in BF. 11:30:00 well you do know you don't actually have to change the language at all, you can just pipe its IO to irc? 11:30:06 I know 11:30:07 right right. 11:30:09 But that's crap 11:30:10 like: 11:30:10 H 11:30:11 e 11:30:11 l 11:30:11 l 11:30:12 o 11:30:16 W 11:30:17 err 11:30:18 o 11:30:20 r 11:30:22 l 11:30:24 d 11:30:26 ! 11:30:28 Rather than Hello World! 11:30:33 right, you don't know anything about irc 11:30:37 forgot that 11:30:53 -!- oklofok has changed nick to oklopol. 11:31:31 the irc spec is quite long, and you will never be able to read it; i suggest googling a "irc bot python", and reading 11:31:42 *-a 11:32:04 http://zuoniel.republika.pl/ircfuck.py 11:32:09 ah right 11:32:12 this is that BFirc interpreter. 11:32:18 takes 2 params 11:32:23 first is the filename 11:32:32 well that won't help you 11:32:37 and the second is the username to which to output 11:32:50 he doesn't know how to do a channel-wide yet. :P 11:33:08 ah okay, that uses some external module 11:33:12 I'm making my own anyway 11:33:14 sorry, it probably will help you 11:33:16 It's irclib. It uses irclib. 11:33:20 yarrr 11:33:21 It wouldn't actually 11:33:27 The implementation isn't channel-wide 11:33:27 :P 11:33:36 i don't know what that means 11:33:40 As in 11:33:46 it outputs/interfaces with a single user 11:33:49 not with the channet 11:33:51 channel* 11:34:12 well i can't help with irclib, but for raw irc connections that's a simple substitution of the channel name for the recipient 11:34:31 to send a message to esoteric, you just write PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is my fun message. 11:34:37 and end with \r\n 11:35:18 who is makebot? 11:35:25 ah 11:35:28 disconnected right away 11:35:47 -!- dark_templar has joined. 11:36:12 congrats i got helloworlded by your botter 11:36:19 :> 11:36:41 :) 11:40:33 -!- jix has joined. 11:52:36 Omg 11:52:44 I found a newbie's IRC connection library 11:53:50 prog lang? 11:54:18 nope, still using Delphi 11:54:22 but i found out Vortex&ICS 11:54:48 Vortex needs ICS. Vortex is an IRC connection library that's way too easy to use for it to be real. 11:55:59 2 MB. I must wait for 10 mins for it to d/l 11:56:04 or 7 mins. 11:56:34 10% 11:56:40 -!- makebot has joined. 11:56:49 -!- makebot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 11:56:53 Teh botter spammed ya all! 11:56:58 What? 11:57:00 You finished it? 11:57:03 Yay. 11:57:06 Can i test it? 11:57:09 sure 11:57:14 ok 11:57:17 Give the link for us all 11:57:19 So we all can start 11:57:47 grab it at http://zuoniel.republika.pl/ircfuck.py 11:57:54 requires irclib, though 11:57:56 Is it the channel-wide version? 11:57:59 yup. 11:58:25 But I still don't know how you wanna faciliate input 11:58:45 , will take the latest message from the channel 11:58:49 And output it 11:58:55 starting from the current cell 11:58:58 as a null-termed string 11:59:12 so I should append all messages put on the chat to the input buffer? 11:59:15 sounds easy now 11:59:37 nope 11:59:39 just the last one 11:59:44 So if i say "poop", you save it 11:59:47 what is 'the last one'? 11:59:52 if i say "road", you overwrite poop with road 11:59:55 it's totally asynchronous 12:00:02 if i say "lowl", you overwrite road with lowl 12:00:03 if you can 12:00:03 what's more, it has only 1 thread 12:00:13 Then 12:00:13 but input buffer doesn't work like that 12:00:16 Oh 12:00:19 So how does it 12:00:25 unless you want me to swap the half-processed input buffer with new one 12:00:34 it grabs a character from input stream when requested 12:00:58 Though guys watch out; quite a lot of Polish comments there 12:01:01 I thought it'll copy the whole message from the input stream 12:01:03 as in 12:01:05 I'm at cell 2 12:01:14 and i take the latest input msg (let's say poop 12:01:19 012345 12:01:21 poop 12:01:28 and at the end, null is saved 12:01:31 So it should look like 12:01:53 0: 1: 2:p 3:o 4:o 5:p 6:(null) 12:02:04 As i had the pointer at cell 2 12:04:24 Also, no wait 12:04:24 Your "grab a single char" method 12:04:24 works better 12:04:24 actually 12:04:25 But there should be a method 12:04:25 to proceed to the next char. 12:04:25 besides, what does (null) evaluate to? Sounds quite Lisp-ish. 12:04:25 (null)=0 12:04:25 as in, a value 0 12:04:25 not the char 0 12:04:25 as in ascii #0. ok. 12:04:25 Wait 12:04:25 you can use ASCII chars <32 righ 12:04:25 t 12:04:25 at your own risk. 12:04:25 They can't be used in IRC anyway 12:04:25 They can 12:04:25 but need to be quoted 12:04:25 I didn't work out the quoting 12:04:25 But, i'd recommend this way 12:04:36 What about 12:04:41 instead of using _ 12:04:45 If i send 0 with . 12:04:50 it replaces the effect of _? 12:04:58 well, you could 12:05:03 but that would break Brainfuck 12:05:12 Why? 12:05:23 You don't output 0 anyway. 12:05:31 as you wish 12:05:33 or not 12:05:36 let's keep it as it is 12:05:44 Even if this means not staying in the 8-command limit 12:05:50 well 12:05:59 you could employ the line-break #10 for that instead of #0 12:06:11 Yeah 12:06:13 That'd be better, actually 12:06:18 As many programs USE a line-break 12:06:40 for example, all the BF games :P 12:06:40 also 12:06:40 block #13 from outputting 12:06:49 Why? It'll fix the programs using #13#10 12:07:01 and will still allow programs using #10 to work 12:07:25 -!- makebot has joined. 12:07:29 :< 12:07:46 -!- makebot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 12:08:04 -!- makebot has joined. 12:08:26 -!- makebot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 12:08:30 -!- makebot has joined. 12:08:31 Ok, IRClib should be installed now 12:08:42 Oh. Found the mistake. It grabs both 10 and 13 and newline 12:08:54 -!- makebot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 12:09:05 as newline, you mean 12:09:25 It should accept 10 and block 13. 12:09:58 Actually, this method should now make all the BF programs compatible with BFirc. 12:10:00 Oooh. 12:10:01 And that's a yay 12:10:10 So 'fuck anything that's <32 and 10 as newline' ? 12:10:11 BFirc is BF compatible 12:10:20 Possibly. 12:10:21 i mean 12:10:29 I could display the unprintables as /x if you wish 12:10:36 Pythonish. 12:10:52 Nope. You could make it a parameter in source code if you want so much though. 12:10:55 But the default way is: 12:11:14 Ignore everything that's <32 (IRC disallows it) except 10, which is a newline, as in, output the buffer on IRC and go ahead with execution. 12:11:21 oh 12:11:31 and clean the buffer before continuing execution 12:11:56 That's all 12:12:25 what does 'continiue exection' mean? 12:12:29 As in 12:12:33 process the next commands 12:12:34 it's aeffectively a bot scripted in BF 12:12:45 yeah 12:13:02 Now i'm going to force-feed a BF interpreter to it. xD. 12:13:02 sure, #10 cleans the buffer 12:13:10 It'd be nonsense NOT to clean it. 12:13:29 just write a suitable BF program to use a chatbot and invent some way input'd work 12:13:33 Also, one question. does "," wait for a character if it doesn't get one? 12:14:15 right now, ',' is ignored. 12:14:20 Oh. :( 12:14:24 Yeah, it'd wait if implemented. 12:14:35 ',' should just output the latest char from the input buffer. 12:14:37 you wanna some @ commands that checks the buffer? 12:14:44 yeah, it'd do so. 12:14:49 Nope... I think not. 12:14:54 Just finish ',' and it's done. 12:15:06 Possibly. 12:15:09 Will need to test it first. 12:15:23 I think there's one more thing you should add, in source code. 12:15:38 It should only copy msg's starting with a specific character 12:15:41 like it wouldn't copy 12:15:43 i am lol 12:15:45 but it will copy 12:15:48 `bf 12:15:51 if ` is set as that character 12:15:54 AnMaster: index for SSET and SGET, is 0 the top or the bottom? 12:15:57 It wouldn't copy ` then i think. 12:16:00 That's all. 12:16:49 That should also be a source-toggleable option. 12:16:55 Deewiant, see 5.1 I think 12:17:01 Why? Some people will make a bf chatterbot (!@#$%^!@#$%^) possibly 12:17:56 So we should have 2 source-toggleable options. 12:18:14 1) Between outputting characters <32 as /x(number) and blocking them (except newline) 12:18:18 -!- makebot has joined. 12:18:23 ... 12:18:37 and 2) between accepting commands only starting with a specific char and erasing the char, and accepting everything. 12:18:42 It pretty had to do some sort of 'cat' with input. 12:18:47 But I'm pretty sure it won't 12:18:50 `hi! 12:18:55 -!- makebot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 12:19:59 That's all *sigh*. 12:20:13 AnMaster: ah, cheers 12:20:33 Deewiant, what is the point of cross references if no one follows them :P 12:20:39 "see also blah blah" 12:20:42 didn't you read that? 12:20:48 :P 12:21:08 AnMaster: no, because just about every instruction says that 12:21:15 -!- makebot has joined. 12:21:19 AnMaster: since it's a PDF without links, browsing back and forth every time is a pain 12:21:19 -!- makebot has quit (Excess Flood). 12:21:31 Deewiant, it have links, at least it does here 12:21:38 What? 12:21:42 couldn't see a word :/ 12:21:50 Deewiant, you can click 10 12:21:54 run your imagination -a 12:21:58 it was kicked for flood 12:21:59 ok a mistake that they are black 12:21:59 AnMaster: ah, UI fail then, they look no different from the rest of the text :-P 12:22:01 so it had to do something 12:22:04 Deewiant, I agree 12:22:06 But where xD 12:22:34 write me some program that takes 10 characters, outputs them with a #10 12:22:54 I will make a program that takes 1 character and outputs it with a #10 12:22:54 in a loop 12:23:23 sure 12:23:28 ++++++++++[>,.<.] 12:23:29 that will make you get kicked for flood 12:23:29 check it 12:23:34 I wrote the same thing 12:23:41 AnMaster: so colour them or something :-P 12:23:54 Deewiant, fixed and uploaded 12:23:54 http://zuoniel.republika.pl/ircfuck.py grab it with working output 12:23:56 and input 12:24:03 I gotta be going 12:24:14 oh 12:24:16 I really need that bag for my laptop 12:24:20 wait, is the charcheck working? 12:24:24 So i can make it detect a specific char? 12:24:29 no, it isn't :> 12:24:29 and only input that? 12:24:31 Oh. 12:24:33 Ok. 12:24:50 bye! 12:24:52 AnMaster: better, thanks, but could have a bit more contrast, dark blue vs. black isn't that great 12:25:08 Deewiant, it is rather bright blue on my screen 12:25:15 maybe you should color calibrate your monitor? 12:25:38 grab it again, I added the <32 output ignore thing 12:25:45 Ok! 12:26:05 AnMaster: when zoomed in 200% it's not obvious at a glance, at least to me 12:26:48 oh, it has NO COPYRIGHT notices! 12:27:03 for the Greater Lulz. 12:28:01 Deewiant, odd 12:28:10 -!- makebot has joined. 12:28:17 Hmm 12:28:30 -!- makebot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 12:28:40 AnMaster: maybe I'm just blind :-P raising blue from 122 to 192 makes it clearer to me 12:28:49 what did you make it to do? 12:28:56 for sure you shut it with a Ctrl-C 12:29:06 Deewiant, eh? I didn't upload the source file yet so how? 12:29:42 Nothing, just keep talking 12:29:45 AnMaster: image editing programs exist :-P 12:29:46 -!- kierkabot has joined. 12:30:02 pwn itself 12:30:02 -!- kierkabot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 12:30:08 oh 12:30:16 Deewiant, ah right 12:30:17 pwn itse, then it shut off 12:30:20 as expected 12:30:23 i used 12:30:34 Deewiant, well I got a rather good monitor, maybe that is the cause 12:30:36 ++++++++++>>++++++++[[<,.>-]<<.>>] 12:30:38 this 12:30:45 Takes 8 chars, outputs them 12:30:45 if you want I can try it on a even better monitor 12:30:45 I made the process not terminate itself on purpose, cuz sometimes it failed to sent messages 12:30:46 AnMaster: as do I... 12:30:48 I got no worse one 12:30:53 And ends in a large crashlog. 12:30:55 sure 12:30:59 * dark_templar goes off to buy a laptop bag 12:31:07 -!- dark_templar has quit ("happy botting!"). 12:31:16 Deewiant, Samsung SyncMaster 940B is the other monitor 12:31:20 Anyone seeing me try to run Lost Kingdom on this, #esoteric-blah 12:31:21 Now 12:31:24 i'll soon do it 12:31:30 * AnMaster turns it on and goes to fiddle with nvidia-settings 12:31:30 AnMaster: I can show you a screenshot 12:32:11 Okay, it's in #esoteric-blah. Yay. :) 12:32:27 Deewiant, well that would look correct on mine 12:32:31 -!- dark_templar has joined. 12:32:40 Oh, the online bank pwned itself, I can't reset the limits on my card... 12:32:51 no bag :/ 12:33:01 AnMaster: who said that anything looks incorrect, I'm just saying that it could use more contrast :-P 12:33:09 AnMaster: iki.fi/deewiant/asdf.png 12:33:18 Oh man 12:33:20 I tried it 12:33:21 it crashed 12:33:27 Lost Kingdom 12:33:28 omg 12:33:29 Deewiant, on my screen that has a lot of contrast :/ 12:33:33 AnMaster: "5.1 on page 10" could be clearer to me 12:33:43 Testing it again 12:33:48 I hate things pwning itselves 12:33:52 -!- LostKingdomBot has joined. 12:33:57 Pwn urself! 12:34:01 Hm... Shouldn't it output? 12:34:04 Well 12:34:04 It's a 2MB mess 12:34:08 2 MB what? 12:34:15 AnMaster: on the more zoomed out ones in the lower window it's clear enough but zoomed in that far I didn't immediately notice that those aren't black 12:34:17 a 2MB text adventure game 12:34:23 I'll try a smaller-sized game now 12:34:24 -!- LostKingdomBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 12:34:30 well 12:34:32 It's Python 12:34:37 Deewiant, hm 12:34:38 I'm sure it can pretty handle stuff that big 12:37:00 it works in a normal BF interpreter 12:37:00 AnMaster: hehe, actually I can even get an optical illusion out of this: staring at the 5 long enough it looks completely black after a few seconds :-) 12:37:00 Deewiant, well I notice it both zoomed and non-zoomed on my monitors 12:37:00 :/ 12:37:00 Well 12:37:00 (idea!) 12:37:01 Deewiant, and nop that doesn't work for me 12:37:01 -!- stackoverbotter has joined. 12:37:01 lolz 12:37:01 * oklopol made a bot! 12:37:01 hi stackoverbotter! 12:37:01 lolz 12:37:01 I could append a linefeed on each of the stuff appearing in chats! 12:37:01 Is it in BFirc? 12:37:01 nope 12:37:01 hi stackoverbotter! 12:37:01 lolz 12:37:01 oh i see 12:37:01 hi 12:37:01 AnMaster: so what color temperature do you have 12:37:01 very strange 12:37:01 So what is it in :P 12:37:01 http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p131415515.txt i call it stackoverbotter because python doesn't have tail recursion :P 12:37:01 lolz 12:37:01 }_} 12:37:01 Deewiant, looking... 12:37:01 So we have 3 bots here 12:37:01 And soon a 4th joins 12:37:01 Yay :( 12:37:01 let's add my bf interpreter there 12:37:33 Deewiant, well one screen only says "warm/normal/cool", set to normal, that is the least good monitor 12:37:42 trying to find it in the menu system of the other monitor now 12:37:54 grab it again 12:37:55 AnMaster: doesn't sound like a good monitor if it can't even tell you what temperature you have ;-) 12:38:03 Deewiant, I said the least good 12:38:07 Testing "Taking Over The World" 12:38:08 it now adds a linefeed on each IRC message 12:38:11 -!- LostKingdomBot has joined. 12:38:13 which is consumer crap but actually works well 12:38:17 Yay, this works 12:38:29 Deewiant, the other one got a crappy menu system 12:38:40 Hey, it pwned itself! 12:38:40 AnMaster: so it isn't that good either ;-) 12:38:42 stop this notice spam please 12:38:42 .... 12:38:46 -!- LostKingdomBot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 12:38:52 Ok 12:38:56 Let me move it to -blah then 12:39:03 kk 12:39:26 Deewiant, apart from this menu system it is good 12:39:40 AnMaster: so, in total, it isn't good. ;-) 12:41:09 Deewiant, it says it is "D65" 12:41:33 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | but there will probably be some API to specify output as a string or something.. 12:41:34 AnMaster: 6500 K then I guess 12:41:47 I use 9300 myself 12:41:57 Deewiant, pl 12:41:58 ok* 12:42:14 Deewiant, and well the cheaper monitor looks the same 12:42:18 but yeah, that doesn't make much of a difference 12:42:28 consumer crap but looks as good 12:42:34 Another problem found 12:42:34 so I guess it is the same then too 12:42:39 Deewiant, or very close 12:42:42 AnMaster: so it's more likely the problem is in my background lighting, eyes, or brain. :-) 12:43:12 Deewiant, background lighting here is outside daylight as reflected from a typical red Swedish house 12:43:15 AnMaster: so have you tried increasing the blue to 192 and seeing if that makes ig ugly for you 12:43:18 ie, this room got morning sun 12:43:20 s/ig/it/ 12:43:23 it is a clear sky 12:43:27 it's raining here 12:43:29 Deewiant, will try 12:43:44 Deewiant, anyway since it is afternoon, no direct sun 12:44:49 err 12:44:51 Deewiant, 192? 12:44:57 \definecolor{theblue} {rgb}{0.02,0.04,0.48} 12:45:00 is the current line 12:45:05 AnMaster: 192 in the range 0-255 12:45:12 Deewiant, can't be arsed to convert 12:45:13 AnMaster: so 0.75 12:45:36 uggly 12:45:40 :-P 12:45:41 really hurts my eyes 12:45:45 too sharp blue 12:45:53 do you have brightness set to 300% or something? ;-P 12:46:08 Deewiant, to 85% 12:46:28 Deewiant, 100% on the cheaper monitor 12:46:36 they match pretty closely then 12:46:38 AnMaster: how about underlining or bolding or italicizing links or something 12:46:49 Deewiant, no idea how to do that 12:47:10 http://rafb.net/p/MUTMR695.html 12:47:15 AnMaster: \underline, \textbf, \textit 12:47:21 Deewiant, see what I pasted 12:47:30 it is the hyperref package that does it 12:48:05 eugh 12:48:05 Deewiant, eh? 12:48:37 AnMaster: set colorlinks to false? or was that what it was before? 12:48:54 Deewiant, that would make them black 12:49:01 AnMaster: was that what it was before. 12:49:03 before it was set as black by mistake 12:49:04 Yay 12:49:08 Taking Over The World works now 12:49:09 AnMaster: just set it to false 12:49:12 as in not "theblue" but =black 12:49:21 AnMaster: that should put a frame around them 12:49:22 Deewiant, underlines are uggly 12:49:27 AnMaster: which is also good because they are not printed then 12:49:27 and the frames even worse 12:49:36 Deewiant, the frame is even worse IMO 12:49:42 also who the heck would print this!? 12:49:49 AnMaster: ....................... 12:49:57 why the hell is it a PDF if it's only for on-screen viewing 12:49:59 ?? 12:50:20 Deewiant, well I didn't think anyone would be crazy enough to implement it, yet alone print it :P 12:50:38 if you don't care about printing and stuff like that then make it into HTML 12:50:51 Deewiant, well I can try to make it a different blue then 12:50:52 if you do care, set colorlinks=false and use the frames :-P 12:51:00 there are no other options here 12:51:09 if it's a PDF it should be printer-friendly 12:51:12 because that's the whole point 12:51:19 Deewiant, I will try to use the same blue as wikipedia use in it's links 12:51:23 less intensive 12:51:26 yet I assume readable 12:51:51 that is, external links 12:52:04 or do you disagree again? 12:52:24 http://zuoniel.republika.pl/ircfuck.py - yay, BFirc is finally done and fixed. 12:52:27 Slow, but compatible. 12:52:34 I disagree in that since this is a PDF you shouldn't be colouring stuff that only matters when viewed in a PDF viewer 12:53:15 Deewiant, those frames disrupt the flow of the text, make it hard to read 12:53:36 I might as well drop the clickability 12:53:42 would at least make you stop complain 12:54:03 hey, is PDF an esoland? 12:54:11 esolang*? 12:54:25 nop 12:54:33 AnMaster: why do you want to use a PDF? 12:54:52 Deewiant, fine, now you want me to upload it as *.dvi I assume? 12:54:57 AnMaster: HTML 12:55:08 god this is hard, i'm basically copypasting code, and it's simply impossible to the the parens right 12:55:10 Deewiant, html is a language I hate to write in 12:55:24 AnMaster: so don't write HTML, use markdown or restructuredText or whatever 12:55:31 even worse 12:55:35 and then generate HTML 12:55:39 and typographically a horror 12:55:46 err, what? elaborate 12:56:20 what do you mean? 12:56:23 -!- stackoverbotter has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 12:56:45 typographically, the web pages rendered by a browser is a horror 12:56:46 firstly, how is it worse than LaTeX which is just as bad as HTML in that you can't see the content for the markup 12:56:56 erm 12:56:59 Deewiant, did I ever say that? 12:57:05 nop I don't think I did 12:57:09 AnMaster: no, that's what I said 12:57:16 LaTeX is as bad as HTML in that respect 12:57:21 I didn't say that was a problem with html 12:57:28 so I fail to see the relevance of it 12:57:33 bbl 12:57:34 so what is your problem with HTML 12:58:04 1) save webpages as Pascal programs 2) execute them at runtime 3) let them write the webpage with Graph module 12:58:49 and as far as HTML typography, if you hate it then view it in PDF yourself 12:59:07 others don't care, I'd rather have a plaintext file than a PDF in this case since there's zero advantage to having it be a PDF 12:59:15 Evil Idea of the day: A legal TV signal broadcast station :) 12:59:32 just write it in markdown/whatever, and generate HTML and PDF from that 13:00:00 How can i do a legal TV signal broadcasting station? 13:00:07 you get your pretty ligatures and others get something that's easy to work with 13:01:10 AnMaster: http://www.complang.tuwien.ac.at/anton/why-not-pdf.html 13:06:04 -!- stackoverbotter has joined. 13:06:04 lolz 13:06:18 back 13:06:27 &%#bf ++++++++[>++++++++<-]>+++.!!!lol 13:06:27 C 13:06:35 yay 13:06:44 Deewiant, that paper is outdated, "xpdf 0.91 crashes;". well last version of xpdf seems to be 3.02, 0.91 was many years ago 13:06:53 I don't think anyone use it today 13:06:59 so you shall have your postscript variant 13:07:00 sure 13:07:06 I will make that if you want 13:07:12 http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p134611352.txt 13:07:22 absolutely no checking for malicious thingies 13:07:28 so feel free to kline me 13:07:55 Will you be back from the shop 13:07:58 darktemplar 13:08:23 Oh well 13:08:29 Now i'm going to write my IRCBOTTEN 13:08:47 AnMaster: that wasn't the point, the arguments are still valid 13:09:01 AnMaster: mostly the one on-screen reading 13:09:06 s/one/one about/ 13:09:10 that irc bot is exactly why i hate purely functional programming 13:09:13 in the unlambda sense 13:09:16 s/one/ones/g gah 13:09:35 AnMaster: i.e. the point is the content, not the formatting 13:10:21 hmm what next, i've kinda exceeded my uselessness limit already 13:10:21 Deewiant, show me a browser that can properly do formatting then? 13:10:29 AnMaster: define "properly" 13:10:30 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 13:10:40 Deewiant, with correct optically right margins, ie, microtypography 13:10:58 AnMaster: define "correct" 13:11:46 Deewiant, http://commons.wikimedia.org/wiki/Image:Textformatting.svg 13:11:54 decide which is easiest to read 13:12:06 with the best margins 13:12:23 AnMaster: about the same IMO 13:12:51 I find the left one easier to read 13:12:53 by far 13:13:16 I was almost going to say the right one is easier but decided they're about the same 13:13:17 I find bad typography really really disturbing when reading 13:13:32 -!- dark_templar has quit. 13:13:54 I just read the text and ignore what it looks like :-P 13:13:59 -!- asiekierka has joined. 13:14:05 Deewiant, well that's you 13:14:07 (of course I'm exaggerating but you get my point) 13:14:51 -!- dark_templar has joined. 13:15:00 I do notice stuff like ligatures, but I don't think they affect readability 13:15:04 hi darktemplar 13:15:09 sure, the text on the left looks a lot nicer 13:15:11 Seems either my code has a bug 13:15:13 or yours does 13:15:20 but I think it's just as readable as the one on the right 13:15:25 Deewiant, well I disagree there 13:15:29 pasting the code in a secondie 13:15:44 -!- dark_templar has left (?). 13:15:49 http://rafb.net/p/avNNHL38.html 13:15:54 Great. I wonder why this doesn't work 13:16:39 AnMaster: do you want me to take over the protocol spec? I can produce HTML for myself and a nice PDF for you :-P 13:17:00 Deewiant, I intend to try to find a working color 13:17:26 Oh 13:17:26 i know 13:17:50 Deewiant, think I found one 13:17:51 AnMaster: I was serious though, I'd rather even write it myself since I'm actually implementing it now 13:18:09 Deewiant, new uploaded 13:18:10 check it 13:18:27 wow, red 13:18:48 sure, better 13:20:04 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit ("Konversation terminated!"). 13:21:02 i should make a compiler from python to purely functional python 13:24:08 AnMaster: but do you feel like you still want to work on it? I can take it off your back 13:24:40 Deewiant, what do you intend to do with it? 13:24:46 how much would you change it 13:25:20 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 13:25:20 the biggest changes would probably be the stuff I talked about in the e-mail I sent you a while back 13:25:46 mostly simplifying it: make pre-run and stopped the same state, join breakpoints and events 13:25:59 Deewiant, email? my email haven't been working the last week 13:26:00 maybe add some stuff (like the missing stack stack stuff) 13:26:14 -!- RodgerTheGreat has quit. 13:26:27 AnMaster: it was the one where you complained that I used "--" 13:26:32 ah that 13:27:21 well I can send you the lyx file 13:27:24 http://asiekierka.boot-land.net/screebles/ - when i watch that thing with an orange portal, my mind alternates between it being outside and inside at once 13:28:19 AnMaster: sure, but I can always even write it from scratch myself, the main point here is that I'd rather not have us both writing the same thing independently :-) 13:29:01 Deewiant, true 13:29:04 let's all write it independently and kick the ones that are slow 13:29:14 * Deewiant kicks oklopol 13:29:34 hey! 13:29:38 i'm very fast 13:29:45 that's the one thing i can do 13:29:46 AnMaster won, sorry ;-) 13:30:05 oklopol, yeah draft 2 is already written by me, like draft 1 13:30:25 Deewiant, also I feel that the official name should be the long: Funge protocol for interpreter tracing and debugging 13:30:32 wasn't draft 2 just a few spelling corrections 13:30:34 maybe you could make it even longer 13:30:39 Deewiant, nah it was a bit more iirc 13:30:47 AnMaster: why not just "Foo: the Funge protocol for..." 13:30:56 Deewiant, too easy! 13:30:57 so there's a short official name "Foo" 13:31:14 and you can just say "this interpreter is Foo compatible" or whatever 13:32:13 Deewiant, .tar.lzma or tar.bz2? 13:32:19 which format to you prefer for the files 13:32:29 whatever 13:32:38 .lzma then 13:33:29 http://rage.kuonet.org/~anmaster/tmp/funge-frontend-protocol.tar.lzma 13:33:31 Deewiant, ^ 13:33:38 hope you can open it 13:33:46 if not just ask and I'll redo as .bz2 13:35:45 why not just use 7-zip, it uses the same algorithm and you don't need to have a tar in between :-P 13:36:28 Deewiant, harder to use 13:36:39 at least for me 13:36:46 would have to learn a new program 13:37:05 you already had to learn lzma 13:37:49 Deewiant, same interface as bzip2 and gzip 13:37:55 so I fail to see your point 13:38:06 lzma --best my-archive.tar 13:38:07 maybe the linux version does 13:38:18 the windows one has a very unique interface :-P 13:38:26 it's not about time of finishing, but about the time taken to write it 13:38:28 Deewiant, well I don't use windows 13:38:30 AnMaster: why not tar -cjf in the first place 13:38:38 anyawy, i didn't even know what you were talking about, assumed a program 13:38:39 Deewiant, that would produce bzip2 13:38:41 I'm going to make another IRCmod of a language, possibly 13:38:42 *way 13:38:45 Deewiant, fine if that is what you wan 13:38:47 want* 13:39:01 AnMaster: yes exactly, so my point is why prefer typing a separate command to just adding a char :-) 13:39:04 Deewiant, but this way I saved 381 bytes ;)! 13:39:09 just kidding 13:39:22 AnMaster: but you used up 140KB storing the uncompressed version before you put it through lzma 13:39:43 Deewiant, well I can reclaim that after 13:39:47 Deewiant, or 13:40:04 yes, after, but in the meanwhile your hard drive is now that much closer to failure ;-) 13:40:21 and I find it a good habit anyway since if you're on a drive with low disk space that can matter 13:40:30 tar -cf - mydir | lzma --best -c - > mycompressed-file 13:40:33 I think that may work 13:40:37 or something like it 13:40:46 Deewiant, I'm not that low ;P 13:40:51 also I got backups 13:40:52 on tape 13:41:03 and now you have to look up flags again since you only know it's "something like it" ;-) 13:41:20 and yeah, but like said, I find it a good habit since you can get that low 13:41:28 or if you're on a network drive or whatever 13:42:30 Deewiant, heck I bet I could even pipe it into ssh to make the compressed archive only show up on the server 13:42:36 not that I plan to try 13:42:42 but I'm almost sure it is possible 13:45:06 heh 14:02:15 -!- MikeRiley has joined. 14:06:29 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:08:52 MikeRiley: there's a bug in your X in 3DSP 14:09:08 or at least in your test for it 14:09:41 ok, what is the bug?? 14:10:15 I don't know, but the answer the test wants is wrong 14:10:33 and what do you believe the answer should be??? 14:10:33 neither matrix*vector or vector*matrix gives the result the test expects 14:10:57 one moment, I will check using Mathematica to make sure it's right ;-) 14:11:01 ok 14:12:27 does all mycology test fingerprints? 14:13:03 mycology tests many fingerprints 14:13:16 MikeRiley: using premultiplication which I guess is what you want (i.e. matrix*vector) it should be 5.50897 1.98446 7.98205 14:13:31 the other way around it is 1.11603 7.66506 10.326 14:13:51 oklopol: it doesn't test some fingerprints, for instance I don't think anyone but me dared write a test program for IFFI 14:13:58 iffi? 14:14:06 Intercal-like Foreign Function Interface 14:14:13 intercal-like, right 14:14:16 which I spent a month or so writing, to combine C-INTERCAL and cfunge 14:14:39 deewiant: your results appear to be missing the translation operation... 14:14:42 MikeRiley: oh, and what the hell is MVRS, it looks scary and TRDS-like in its feralness :-P 14:14:45 in theory it could work without an INTERCAL implementation, for instance you could connect two IFFI-enabled Funge interps with it in theory 14:14:57 but in practice the only implementation anyone did was C-INTERCAL <-> cfunge 14:15:09 MikeRiley: I'm just using the "transform matrix on concatenating with Z" you give at the end of the file 14:15:17 will explain MVRS in a moment,,,want to make sure the 3DSP is right.. 14:15:19 and multiplying it with (1 2 3 1) 14:15:36 understood deewiant,,,,but the calculation i am using may not be exactly the same.... 14:15:53 checking it right now with calculcations i got from a book an doing 3d graphics... 14:15:54 MikeRiley: CCBI gives what Mathematica gives 14:16:09 i.e. 5.51 1.98 7.98 14:16:55 which is (1 2 3) less than my results,,,,,which is minus the translation operation... 14:17:24 translation isn't an addition 14:17:33 was in the book i have..... 14:17:44 and in any case, I get GOOD for all the tests before that (except N which assumes something about rounding) 14:17:58 yes, n does not assume rounding,,, 14:18:06 need to fix that a bit.... 14:18:15 mine shows good,,,,but rounding could make it show bad... 14:18:18 o 14:18:20 well your test gives BAD because it expects 0.444 or something when I get 0.445 14:18:39 and 0.445 is actually closer to the correct result which is 0.4448 or so ;-) 14:18:54 which precision were you calculating with?? 14:19:28 I use floats but I the compiler may increase the precision if it thinks it's a good idea 14:19:29 i will probably modify that test a bit in order to fix possible rounding issues... 14:19:33 s/I the/the/ 14:19:58 i thought at the time that rounding issues may cause a problem.. 14:20:14 i.e. if I do float x = y * z then the compiler might choose to calculate y*z as long double before making it float 14:20:18 Rc/Funge-98 is using double for all those calculations... 14:20:58 MikeRiley: looking at your source for X, Vector_Matrix_Mul looks wrong 14:21:12 that formula came from a book,,,, 14:21:26 and the more i think about it,,, which used that for a specific task... 14:21:27 the last ones added should be b.c[3][0] and [3][1] etc instead of [0][3] [1][3] 14:21:33 mainly reorient an object,,,and then move it... 14:21:36 just like all the others are 14:21:41 so probably not the best formula to use... 14:22:21 you have a wrong version....here is what is in vector.c: 14:22:40 struct VECTOR3 Vector_Matrix_Mul(struct VECTOR3 a,struct MATRIX b) 14:22:40 { 14:22:40 struct VECTOR3 Result; 14:22:40 Result.x=a.x*b.c[0][0]+a.y*b.c[1][0]+a.z*b.c[2][0]+b.c[0][3]; 14:22:40 Result.y=a.x*b.c[0][1]+a.y*b.c[1][1]+a.z*b.c[2][1]+b.c[1][3]; 14:22:41 Result.z=a.x*b.c[0][2]+a.y*b.c[1][2]+a.z*b.c[2][2]+b.c[2][3]; 14:22:43 return Result; 14:22:44 I downloaded it today :-P 14:22:45 } 14:22:48 yes, and that is wrong 14:22:49 see 14:22:55 a.x*b.c[0][0]+a.y*b.c[1][0]+a.z*b.c[2][0]+b.c[0][3]; 14:22:57 the version on the website does not have the fixed code... 14:23:04 why [0][0] [1][0] [2][0] [0][3] 14:23:09 why is the last one in a different order 14:23:15 it should be [3][0] 14:23:28 [3][0] would have zero in it... 14:23:55 it should be consistent 14:23:58 a translation matrix for (1 2 3) would look like: 14:24:00 1 0 0 0 14:24:03 0 1 0 0 14:24:05 0 0 1 0 14:24:08 1 2 3 1 14:24:23 fine, but in any case that formula should be consistent 14:24:25 again,,,this came from a book i have... 14:24:50 MikeRiley: that formula gives incorrect results, Result is neither a*b nor b*a 14:24:52 they may have done things differently... 14:25:07 (b*transpose(a) to be exact) 14:25:27 if your storage is like that then I think flipping the others' order may help 14:25:32 do not know what their intention was....but my code comes up with their results.... 14:25:36 because it has to be consistent 14:25:40 they may have been doing somethign a bit different... 14:26:48 MikeRiley: what do you get from multiplying {{1, 2, 3, 0}, {1, 2, 3, 0}, {1, 2, 3, 0}, {1, 2, 3, 1}} with {{1,2,3,1}} 14:27:10 i will look deeper into it,,,,look for some different formulas... 14:27:30 again,,,the intent of this book may have been slightly different than what you are expecting.... 14:27:31 MikeRiley: you can look on wikipedia for the formula for multiplying two matrices together... 14:27:39 the intent should and does not matter 14:27:43 i know the formulat for multiplying two matrices... 14:27:47 the fact is, that code does not multiply a vector by a matrix 14:28:12 intent does matter,,,if this book was using the matrices in a different way,,,it would matter about the formula they used.... 14:28:17 either that,,,,or the book has it wrong... 14:28:51 intent can't matter, multiplying two matrices together is a very well defined operation, if they do it differently it's not matrix multiplication 14:28:59 i understand that.... 14:29:02 the book may have a mistake indeed 14:29:11 or you miscopied it, which I also think is a possibility 14:29:14 i agree,,,the book could have mistake in it... 14:29:23 i am looking at the book right now....matches my formulas... 14:29:38 have you tried changing the order of those from [1][0] to [0][1]? 14:29:44 no miscopy....but definitely possible the book has them wrong 14:29:47 maybe the formulas match but your storage order differs 14:30:05 no,,,using all the matrix/vector functions from this book.... 14:30:16 and my results match the results from the book,,,,, 14:30:22 give me an example result 14:30:28 so my code matches the book,,,,but the book may be wrong... 14:30:43 the example from the book is the example in the 3DSP test... 14:30:51 well then the book is wrong 14:30:53 that is how i knew the results to test... 14:30:57 i can accept that... 14:31:04 like said, I posted above the two possible results of that multiplication 14:31:08 depending on which order it's done in 14:31:12 and what the test expects is neither 14:31:38 i will look deeper into it....chances are the book i have is wrong.... 14:33:16 anyhow...will get it straightened out and redo the test program to have correct results.... 14:33:52 alright, thanks 14:33:58 now what about MVRS?? 14:35:13 MVRS is a support fingerprint for a new feature in Rc/Funge-98 V2,,,,essentially concurrent concurrent funge... 14:35:22 concurrent concurrent funge? 14:35:30 V2 can run multiple funges at once.... 14:35:42 That's fiendish. :) 14:35:43 MVRS allows for data copy between funges,,,, 14:35:55 as well as the ability of an IP to travel to another funge... 14:36:04 even C-INTERCAL can only have one Funge linked in at a time right now 14:36:27 I was afraid it would be something like that :-p 14:36:34 V2 can now run an unlimited (well limited by memory) number of virtual machines... 14:36:41 MikeRiley: can they have different numbers of dimensions? 14:36:46 yes they can 14:36:51 egads 14:37:03 also,,,one can be running funge/98 while another is running funge/93 or or funge/108 14:37:23 one can be running befunge while another is running unefunge or trefunge... 14:37:32 each VM is its own universe.... 14:37:36 MikeRiley: can any of them run programs other than funges? 14:37:56 i suppose it is possible,,,,but only funges are defined... 14:38:04 MikeRiley: are they synchronized? i.e. all at the same tick (forgetting about TRDS) 14:38:20 there is a note in the manual concerning TRDS 14:38:31 although I suppose that if you have the ability to redefine commands other than A-Z, you could easily write something in Funge that changed a Funge interpreter into a Brainfuck interpreter by redefining []+-,.<> 14:38:31 unfortunately there is no manual about it online 14:38:34 only the test 14:38:36 each universe is its own...TRDS only effects the universe it is running in...and no others.... 14:38:47 MikeRiley: but still, doesn't answer my question, are they synchronized 14:39:09 as far as tick count....they are not synchronized if you use TRDS 14:39:13 otherwise they will be 14:39:20 okay, so they are 14:39:29 that makes it a bit easier to reason about :-) 14:39:38 jumping backwards in TRDS would change the tick count for only universe where somethign went backwards... 14:40:09 the code that executes this,,,,,loops over each VM,,,,which in each VM there is code that loops over each IP.... 14:40:28 so once all the IPs in one VM have run,,,,then the next one will execute all of its IPs, etc... 14:41:03 the spec for MVRS is still in change...but here is what there is of it so far: 14:41:05 "MVRS" 0x4d565253 14:41:05 ----------------- 14:41:05 B (0gnirts flags--) - Big-Bang, create another universe 14:41:05 C ( -- n) - Number of existing universes 14:41:05 F (0gnirts Vd Vs Vsz) - Copy funge-space from another universe 14:41:06 G (0gnirts Vp Vd) - Go to another universe 14:41:08 J (0gnirts --) - Jump to new universe 14:41:10 N ( -- 0gnirts) - Get name of current universe 14:41:12 P (0gnirts Vd Vs Vsz) - Copy funge-space to another universe 14:41:14 F source vector must be x,y,z even if source universe is unefunge or befunge 14:41:16 F size vector is based upon current universe 14:41:18 J keeps position and delta 14:41:20 Any command specifying a universe will reflect if the universe does 14:41:22 not exist 14:41:22 MikeRiley: so hmm, they are still executed discretely? 14:41:24 B Flags: 14:41:26 1 - Unefunge 14:41:28 2 - Befunge 14:41:30 3 - Trefunge 14:41:31 -!- tusho has joined. 14:41:32 4 - Funge/93 14:41:34 8 - Funge/98 14:41:35 hi tusho 14:41:36 12 - Funge/108 14:41:38 16 - Supress summary 14:41:40 32 - Enable debugger 14:41:42 64 - Enable trace mode 14:41:44 128 - Official version of y 14:41:45 MikeRiley: you should really consider pastebins or something 14:41:46 Defaults: 14:41:48 Befunge 14:41:50 Funge/98 14:41:52 yes 14:41:54 they are not independently executed...so they are cycle synced... 14:42:01 pastebins??? 14:42:22 MikeRiley: instead of putting a lot of text into the channel, you put it into a pastebin and link to the pastebin 14:42:23 MikeRiley: i.e. places on the 'Net where you can paste stuff, as opposed to pasting to IRC :-) 14:42:26 like http://paste.pocoo.org/ 14:42:33 oh...ok,,,, 14:42:34 that was scripted ais523 14:42:36 MikeRiley: stop flooding 14:42:38 MikeRiley: pastebin.ca 14:42:40 so that you don't flood the channel 14:42:40 tusho: no it wasn't 14:42:45 ais523: :) 14:42:50 I happened to be reading what MikeRiley was saying at the time 14:42:53 and just typed it when I saw you log in 14:43:04 MikeRiley: so hmm, if you do F in universe B then universe A has already executed and you'll get this tick's universe A instead of last tick's? 14:43:42 correct 14:43:52 however the universe looks at the time F is executed 14:44:00 or is it defined to be in the reverse order like IPs 14:44:18 MikeRiley: what do you mean 14:44:18 re the topic: someone should write an API to get the entire backlog of #esoteric as a string or something 14:44:38 probably optbot, it seems to claim there would be 14:44:38 ais523: or objc 14:44:59 the code for F is simple....merly do a funge-space copy....however the source exists at the time of execution is what you get... 14:45:21 does not matter what cycle any universe might be in... 14:49:06 i put a copy of the V2 source on my site if you want to see what i am doing. http://www.rcfunge98.com/rcfunge2.tgz 14:50:11 MikeRiley: you should fix the MIME types on your site 14:50:21 i have no control over them 14:50:22 that is most definitely not text/html :-P 14:50:28 i agree.... 14:50:42 at least i do not think i do....let me look.... 14:50:45 where do you host your stuff 14:51:17 ipower.com 14:51:58 looking now to see if i can change the mime types... 14:52:00 MikeRiley: they do advertise "Customizable MIME Types" 14:52:39 ok,,,,looking.....not finding it so far.... 14:53:08 well I don't know about their user interface but it /should/ be there and if you can't find it, complain to them :-P 14:53:45 might have to.....been through half the stuff there,,,and so far no mime types 14:54:37 hmm, looks like MVRS is going to force me to rewrite my interpreter :-) 14:55:01 i had to rewrite mine.... 14:55:09 Deewiant: do you still aim to implement every fingerprint ever? 14:55:23 but at the same time,,,will now allow me to replace my mini-funge with a much more powerful one... 14:55:33 ais523: I never did, so don't hold your breath on IFFI ;-) 14:55:37 ok 14:55:52 ais523: WIND and FING were the two that I consciously decided not to, earlier 14:56:07 Rc/Funge-98 probably supports more fingerprints than anything,,,but sill not all of them that exist... 14:56:19 and FNGR deewiant??? eheheeheheheh 14:56:33 MikeRiley: did I confuse FING and FNGR? 14:56:38 yes you did 14:56:43 FING is the new one... 14:56:49 FNGR is the big scary one... 14:56:51 alright, so WIND and FNGR then 14:57:57 well,,,if ipower supports customizable mime types...they are not on my control panel anywhere.... 14:58:13 and probably all the SysV IPC ones as well deewiant??? 14:58:21 I feel so proud, I managed to make a fingerprint that everyone's scared of implementing 14:58:44 there should be an EVAL fingerprint 14:58:46 that's my contribution 14:58:53 tusho: that evaluates what? 14:58:56 PERL evaluates Perl 14:58:59 ais523: befunge-98 14:59:00 duh 14:59:03 er 14:59:06 funge-98 14:59:09 tusho: couldn't you just use a goto? 14:59:10 MikeRiley: yes, I won't implement any non-portable ones 14:59:14 or MikeRiley's MVRS? 14:59:18 ais523: maybe? 14:59:20 i dunno :D 14:59:23 ais523: are the docs for it somewhere 14:59:46 -!- dark_templar has joined. 14:59:57 IFFI, that is 14:59:58 Deewiant: yes they are, I'll compile them for you though because I think they're only in source form on the Internet atm 15:00:03 I'll put compiled documentation up for you 15:00:14 great :-) 15:00:34 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 15:00:36 what would EVAL do???? that cannot already be done??? 15:00:49 MikeRiley: not sure 15:00:50 hmm 15:00:54 different dimensions 15:00:54 eheheh 15:00:58 you could execute trefunge in befunge 15:01:06 by passing ( code 3 ) to the eval command 15:01:11 MVRS in a way could let you do that... 15:01:21 as well as unefunge in befunge, etc with ( code 1 ) 15:01:38 interesting idea...just wonder if it really has any use... 15:02:00 MikeRiley: Do most funge things have a use? :) 15:02:07 fizzie 15:02:11 could use it for fungot 15:02:17 (as an ^eval command only he could use) 15:02:18 well....no....except keep people like us busy messing with it!!!! eheheheeheheheheheh 15:02:27 but then you could just do a goto in that case 15:02:32 still, the different-dimensions thing is nice 15:02:48 http://code.eso-std.org/c-intercal/doc/html/guplsbpq.htm#The-IFFI-Fingerprint 15:02:50 Deewiant: ^ 15:02:58 cheers 15:05:18 the joys of distributed version control, I can compile the documentation directly in the repository and it doesn't break anything 15:08:18 ais523: that's some deep funge-intercal entanglement going on there :-P 15:08:26 Deewiant: yes, it is 15:08:29 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ"). 15:08:42 the Funge program can even change the syntax of the INTERCAL program by adding new commands 15:08:45 or new operators 15:12:17 Suggested name for bridges of this sort: Esolang intercourse. 15:14:31 or just esoteric intercourse 15:14:53 Yes, that flows better. (<-- Man, that wasn't even intentional) 15:14:57 -!- dogface has joined. 15:15:11 deewiant,, do you know what your final transform matrix looks like??? want to see if yours and mine are the same now... 15:15:55 MikeRiley: everything up to what X expects after the call are the same as what the test expects 15:16:55 here is what mine looks like now: 15:17:04 0.750 -0.433 1.874 5.508 15:17:04 0.433 1.750 -0.649 1.984 15:17:04 -0.500 0.866 2.249 7.982 15:17:04 0.000 0.000 0.000 1.000 15:17:33 this is the final one,,,after all the rotations ahave been multiplied in... 15:18:10 so it looks like you changed from column vectors to row vectors 15:18:25 only thing i changed wat the translation matrix... 15:18:39 the rest are unchanged 15:18:45 so what code did you change? 15:18:49 so translation produces this now: 15:18:51 1 0 0 x 15:18:54 0 1 0 y 15:18:57 0 0 1 z 15:18:59 0 0 1 1 15:19:08 instead of the x y z on row 3... 15:19:08 0 0 0 1 probably 15:19:17 yes,,,on that last row... 15:19:25 i changed the code that generates translation matrices... 15:20:08 new code creates them as above....old code made these: 15:20:10 1 0 0 0 15:20:13 0 1 0 0 15:20:15 0 0 1 0 15:20:17 x y z 1 15:20:35 no other code has changed at this point... 15:21:10 and changed vector_matrix_mul to this: 15:21:14 Result.x=a.x*b.c[0][0]+a.y*b.c[1][0]+a.z*b.c[2][0]+b.c[3][0]; 15:21:14 Result.y=a.x*b.c[0][1]+a.y*b.c[1][1]+a.z*b.c[2][1]+b.c[3][1]; 15:21:14 Result.z=a.x*b.c[0][2]+a.y*b.c[1][2]+a.z*b.c[2][2]+b.c[3][2]; 15:23:06 MikeRiley: so now T says the matrix is wrong in that test... :-P 15:23:47 yes,,,,i fixed the test for T 15:24:02 need to fix teh matrix comparison on the final matrix...then will upload new test 15:24:26 also fixed the tst for S * T which would have been wrong as well 15:25:55 MikeRiley: fixed it manually by replacing @s, and yes that is the same matrix as I get 15:26:07 the result after X is [11.02, 3.97, 15.96, 1.00] 15:27:20 ok,,,,,let me fix the test...then will see the final on X 15:29:08 11.017948806286 3.968910902739 11.017948806286 15:29:12 is what i get... 15:31:04 well that's wrong :-P 15:31:20 mathematica: 15:31:24 {{11.014}, {3.97}, {15.961}, {1.}} 15:31:27 or 15:31:28 {{0.116, 5.665, 7.323, 34.422}} 15:31:50 hmmmmmmmm 15:32:13 first 2 look good.....wonder what is up with z..... 15:32:15 I just use the same routine for matrix-matrix and matrix-vector multiplication, much simpler :-) 15:32:54 mine just eliminates the loops....but should still produce the same result....in theory.... 15:33:09 but something is not right... 15:33:21 if you have the same final transform matrix as i do....hmmmmm 15:33:39 for mathematica I just used the matrix you pasted earlier, verbatim 15:34:10 -!- dark_templar has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:34:32 ok,,,,then i would expect your result is teh correct one....wonder why only my z is off....curious.... 15:36:47 type!!!!! stupid me!!!! eheheheheheheheehhe here is what i get now: 15:36:49 11.017948806286 3.968910902739 15.964100480080 15:37:03 what was the typo? 15:37:17 of course it was one, but what was it :-) 15:37:30 in my printf i was outputing a.x instead of a.z!!! eheheeheheheheheheheheh 15:37:37 :-D 15:37:45 plugging final numbers into the test.... 15:41:51 ok,,,,test works now with new numbers... 15:45:12 posted new test for 3DSP... 15:46:57 N and X fail for CCBI due to precision issues, otherwise all good 15:47:16 (this is why Mycology only gives UNDEFs for FPSP and FPDP!) 15:47:50 yeah.,,,probably a good idea.... 15:48:36 intersting tho that it matrix checks right,,,since those are all fp as well... 15:49:23 it's just luck 15:49:39 guess so.... 15:50:01 and it checks for me since i used the output of my calculations to produce the test comparison... 15:50:17 yeah, that would help :-P 15:50:22 yep..... 15:50:38 might change things to undef and then print the results and what the results should be... 15:50:58 or else multiply the results by 1000 and take the integer and compare to that... 15:51:14 measuring to 3 digits should be precise enough??? and prevent rounding erorrs 15:51:41 yeah, that should work as well 15:51:49 just 1 digit is probably good enough also... 15:52:07 probably....if a calc is wrong, it is liable to be way wrong 15:52:27 just like my previous X!!! eheheheheh 16:06:48 -!- darktemplar has joined. 16:44:04 -!- MikeRiley has quit (" "). 16:51:36 Ok, upped Screeble #23. http://asiekierka.boot-land.net/screebles 16:55:01 Yay! 16:58:53 -!- fizziet has joined. 17:07:05 -!- fizziet has quit ("Laggity lag."). 17:09:33 -!- ais523 has quit ("(1) DO COME FROM ".2~.2"~#1 WHILE :1 <- "'?.1$.2'~'"':1/.1$.2'~#0"$#65535'"$"'"'&.1$.2'~'#0$#65535'"$#0'~#32767$#1""). 17:11:58 -!- Sgeo has joined. 17:36:16 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 17:45:33 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:46:43 -!- Mony has joined. 17:53:07 -!- asiekierka has quit. 18:41:34 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | : probably isn't well explained.. 18:57:20 bye 18:57:22 -!- Mony has quit ("ร€ vaincre sans pรฉril on triomphe sans gloire..."). 19:00:28 -!- tusho has quit. 19:01:07 -!- asiekierka has joined. 19:01:08 hi 19:01:46 -!- darktemplar has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:04:54 Deewiant, I will not be reachable tomorrow btw 19:05:16 alright 19:05:45 (I won't remember tomorrow anyway so if I have something to ask I'll ask it in any case :-P) 19:17:58 ... 19:58:48 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:01:46 Deewiant; We (or at least I) will then mercilessly mock you for your forgetfulness. 20:02:01 so I better not ask anything then ;-) 20:03:10 Mission: accomplished. 20:05:19 -!- tusho has joined. 20:06:24 zap zop zoot! 20:07:09 Hi, dogface. 20:11:30 For some reason I am sorely tempted to utter something like "Hello, little girly man." but that would be just pointless; can't resist mentioning it this way, though. 20:17:26 i don't even look female ;.; 20:23:53 There was that one video; it's the only picturological thing of you I have seen. 20:24:04 an idea: 20:24:18 WikiLinux - The Free Linux distro that anyone can edit 20:24:18 AnMaster; Not the nude pics again. 20:24:19 XD 20:25:15 fizzie: http://tentaclerapture.com/lulz/photo2.jpg 20:26:20 po 20:26:22 *o 20:26:34 oklopol: oko. 20:26:40 ooooooookokokokokoko 20:26:53 fizzie: please don't say photo2.jpg looks like a girl too 20:26:53 :P 20:27:35 But it does! 20:27:40 ya i'm so gonna wank @ that! 20:27:49 oklopol: :| 20:27:50 Are you _absolutely_ sure about your gender? 20:27:56 fizzie: Quite thoroughly. 20:27:57 psygnisfive: i'm here now, in case you need me, btw. 20:28:01 at least i think i am 20:28:02 Unless I just grew a penis somehow. 20:28:03 hmm 20:28:05 And I'm also gay. 20:28:16 Uh, that was a bundled statement. 20:28:22 {Unless I just grew a penis somehow and I'm also gay} 20:28:37 i don't get it 20:28:46 hey 20:28:48 i got it 20:28:49 cool 20:28:49 oklopol: If I was female then I'd have had to grow a penis somehow 20:28:51 and I'd also be gay 20:28:55 genders are so complicated 20:29:21 well for some reason i thought of the penis as a gender switch 20:29:43 Gender is seperate from sex. 20:29:49 Hmm. 20:29:52 Then I replied to [20:27:50] Are you _absolutely_ sure about your gender? wrongly. 20:30:03 Although I am sure of both my gender and sex (they're both male.) 20:30:04 i don't believe in complicated things, actually, penis will from now on be my definition of male 20:30:23 for both gender and sex 20:30:25 oklopol: so eunuchs are genderless? 20:30:28 yes 20:30:31 definitely 20:30:32 cool 20:31:02 gender doesn't have meaning to me, as anything but a physical detail of the body 20:31:15 or a set of details 20:31:34 gender is mental 20:31:36 sex is physical 20:31:54 gender isn't mental, you have a physical sex and a sexual preference. 20:32:01 gender is mental 20:32:10 why do you think people have sex changes? 20:32:14 their gender is A, their sex is B. 20:32:25 they prefer a set of genitals better than the other 20:32:32 no 20:32:35 that's sexual orientation 20:32:36 not gender 20:32:53 you're complicating things for no reason 20:33:02 no, I'm not 20:33:11 you're just being completely insensitive to a huge range of people 20:33:23 oh god i'm so sorry! :O 20:34:31 all i'm saying is the separation of gender and sex is meaningless to me, for all intents and purposes. 20:35:33 i can live with "some people wanna be physically female/male, most people are one or the other, physically, and most people like one of the two sexes better than the other" 20:35:49 but i don't believe in gender 20:36:09 there should be an unicode symbol for "there are too many unicode symbols" 20:36:10 :D 20:36:15 oklopol: it's a good thing not believing in something doesn't make it not exist 20:36:16 "being completely insensitive" doesn't really mean anything to me either. 20:36:35 oklopol: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender 20:36:36 plz read. 20:36:51 tusho: anyway, this is one of those issues where you say something exists without actually defining it; you may be right, but things without definition are nothing to me. 20:37:06 oklopol: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gender 20:37:07 this has happened about a million times, i simply see the world differently than humans 20:37:10 there's your definition 20:37:29 gender = preferred set of genitals 20:37:36 according to that 20:37:57 did you even fucking read 20:38:21 Gender refers to the differences between men and women. Encyclopรฆdia Britannica notes that gender identity is "an individual's self-conception as being male or female, as distinguished from actual biological sex."[1] Although gender is commonly used interchangeably with sex, within the social sciences it often refers to specifically social differences, known as gender roles in the biological sciences. 20:38:33 People whose gender identity feels incongruent with their physical bodies may call themselves transgender or genderqueer. 20:38:44 I think the point to note here is "commonly used interchangeably with sex". 20:38:56 And "within the social sciences" is not necessarily the case here. 20:38:57 not really, fizzie 20:39:07 i know the distinction, and was going by it 20:39:11 as was tusho 20:39:25 fizzie: Would you refer to a transsexual as their sex or their gender? 20:39:31 I should hope the latter. 20:39:32 anyway, "gender roles" don't mean anything to me 20:39:36 what are those? 20:39:56 not that i care, why the fuck can't you let me disagree? 20:40:08 this is so uninteresting i can't breathe. 20:40:34 disagreeing on facts is rather unreasonable 20:40:41 lol 20:41:02 well i'm not gonna argue anymore, for all intents and purposes we agree completely. 20:41:15 no, we don't 20:41:23 you "don't believe" in gender 20:41:50 i don't believe it's a useful property to list on a human 20:42:18 "not believing" doesn't really mean anything to me, i've already explained what i meant 20:42:42 anyway, really, this is stupid 20:42:53 gotta do some workie 20:43:12 -!- MikeRiley has joined. 20:43:44 People don't have gender, words have gender. 20:44:05 :P 20:44:24 "Cara" is feminine, "sacapuntas" is masculine, "carro" is masculine, "pluma" is feminine... 20:44:31 Well, my particular viewpoint here is that in casual conversation I ought to be able to say either "sex" or "gender" and assume that a single answer ("male" or "female") will suffice for most; and in more complicated cases the answer will then include both "sex" and "gender", whatever those are. 20:44:32 dogface: people and words have gender 20:44:40 Our words do not have gender. :/ 20:44:44 fizzie: Correct. :P 20:44:45 "dogface" is neither, because it's in English. 20:45:13 fizzie: So say someone said that their sex was male but their gender was female. Would you refer to them as "he" or "she"? 20:45:15 fizzie: that hasn't been the issue at any point of this conversation 20:45:20 I would hope "she". 20:45:48 interesting topic for this channel!! 20:45:59 Actually pretty boring. 20:46:03 /me wonders what he came into the middle of.... 20:46:06 Semantic debates are evil. 20:46:08 MikeRiley: this is #esoteric, what did you expect 20:46:12 And boring = evil. 20:46:13 indeed, i don't think we've ever had a conversation this useless 20:46:15 guess so!!! eheheeheheh 20:46:22 anyway, i've asked fizzie that question twice, i'll ask it until he answers and then I'll stop discussing this 20:46:31 which question?? 20:46:38 fizzie: answer what he hopes, fast :P 20:46:49 MikeRiley: [20:45:12] fizzie: So say someone said that their sex was male but their gender was female. Would you refer to them as "he" or "she"? 20:47:01 i would say she.... 20:47:18 I'd ask them which they'd prefer I refer to them as. 20:47:35 dogface: The whole point of them identifying their gender as female would be that they consider themselves female. 20:47:37 if they considered their gender to be female,,,then she is the appropriate pronoun... 20:47:41 MikeRiley: agreed 20:48:28 or if they are bi-gendered, then whatever gender they present as is the appropriate one to call them... 20:48:37 * tusho nods 20:48:43 tusho: what if they independently decide that "gender" is physical, "sex" is imagined? 20:48:52 Or if I have no idea what they're talking about? 20:48:56 dogface: then they'd just be shuffling terms for no reason :P 20:48:59 and presumably you could ask 20:48:59 anyway 20:49:00 gender is how you feel about yourself...sex is your plumbing.... 20:49:01 I'll stop talking now 20:49:05 fizzie can reply to me in /msg 20:49:24 how you view yourself that should be... 20:49:48 Sorry, WLAN troubleshooting here; that has a rather larger priority than the poinless sex/gender stuff. 20:49:57 so, more important topics. Like befunge. :P 20:50:21 i haven't worked on my languages for ages :< 20:50:32 sleepy all the time, can't get anything done really 20:50:32 i find both topics fascinating,,,,but expect more topics like befunge than sex/gender/tg ones... 20:50:35 blargh 20:50:42 oklopol: learning to speak various natural languages? 20:51:05 dogface: well sure, but i was talking about my esolangs 20:51:21 i'm slowly learning them all, of course, at various paces :D 20:51:43 MikeRiley: #esoteric being on topic has been a bit of an anomaly lately 20:51:56 i see.... 20:52:06 yeah it's great the channel name is so permitting 20:52:49 * dogface directs everybody in the world into #esoteric-blah 20:52:57 dogface: that's for botfloods 20:53:00 not general discussion 20:55:10 -!- RedDak has joined. 20:55:38 hmm, wonder how long stackoverbotter has time left :P 20:55:38 lolz 20:55:56 what's the default stack size in python? 20:56:21 1000 20:56:23 hmm 20:56:36 how the fuck is it still online 20:59:54 what is stackoverbotter 20:59:54 lolz 20:59:56 anyone wanna count the lines since stackoverbotter joined 20:59:56 lolz 21:00:05 stackoverbotter: hmm hi 21:00:05 lolz 21:00:06 what does it do 21:00:08 ah 21:00:11 it's a purely functional, in the unlambda sense, irc bot 21:00:12 replies lolz when you talk to it? 21:00:18 yeah and runs bf 21:00:42 oklopol: link to src? 21:00:44 coded it in python, the bf interpreter i did ages ago, but it was quite hard to get in 21:00:45 psygnisfive: bf 2 21:00:46 err sure 21:00:47 er 21:00:48 wait a mo 21:00:49 stackoverbotter: bf 2 21:00:49 lolz 21:00:52 !bf 2 21:00:57 !bf ,[.,]!hi 21:00:59 hmm 21:01:54 Is a bot that doesn't run brainfuck really a bot, anyway? It seems to be a requirement. 21:02:09 fizzie: No. 21:02:11 It's just a robot. 21:02:11 http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p315114666.txt 21:02:19 Brainfuck is hard to do short text generation in, though. 21:02:22 So it makes it into a bot. 21:02:27 So that the code is shorter. 21:02:28 oklopol: nifty 21:02:33 fizzie: yes, a bot is something that connects, joins, pongs, and runs brainfuck. 21:02:44 and possibly something more 21:02:53 My fungot doesn't join unless I "^raw JOIN #esoteric" it. 21:03:05 well raw can be substituted for that i guess 21:03:15 :&%#bf ,[.,]!hi 21:03:18 -!- stackoverbotter has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:03:22 :D 21:03:30 :D 21:03:44 , doesn't work i think 21:03:48 hmm 21:04:06 actually disabling it, while making it mandatory to have input, is kinda... cool 21:04:44 -!- stackoverbotter has joined. 21:04:44 lolz 21:04:47 he's back! 21:04:48 :&%#bf ,[.,]!hi 21:04:49 usho!n=tusho@91.105.80.203 PRIVMSG #esoteric ::&%#bf ,[.,]!hi 21:04:54 :D 21:04:56 &%#bf ,[.,]!!!hi 21:04:56 hi 21:05:03 hahahaha what 21:05:04 :D 21:05:06 !!! because it was shorter to write 21:05:11 oklopol: wut? 21:05:26 !!! was shorter to code than !, because ! is in the identor 21:05:26 &%#bf ,[.,]!!!hi 21:05:26 hi 21:05:30 :&%#bf ,[.,]!!!hi 21:05:30 hi 21:05:45 :&%#bf +[] 21:05:47 &%#bf ,[.,]!hi 21:05:47 -!- stackoverbotter has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:05:50 :D 21:05:54 lol 21:05:56 * dogface presses tusho 21:06:03 you have to be careful around it ;) 21:06:07 or 21:06:10 i could fix it a bit 21:06:12 oklopol: i should write a bot in haskell 21:06:18 it's just i don't really have an ide for python 21:06:19 so that I can claim that writing a purely functional bot is trivil 21:06:21 *trivial 21:06:21 :P 21:06:23 well i have 21:06:30 but it sucks for something like that 21:06:32 wonder why. 21:06:38 -!- stackoverbotter has joined. 21:06:38 lolz 21:06:43 stop killing it, i wanna see the stack overflow :P 21:07:15 stackoverbotter: stack 21:07:15 lolz 21:07:17 hn 21:07:18 oklopol 21:07:21 bring it to #esoteric-blah 21:07:39 tusho: it's really just hard because there's no closures, and my way to code is first to write, then to debug. 21:07:52 oklopol: python has closures.. 21:07:55 its lambdas are closures 21:08:00 it doesnt have statements in lambdas though 21:08:02 just expressions 21:08:04 now #esoteric-blah 21:08:06 while this should clearly be done by first writing it in pieces, then copypasting 21:08:10 err well 21:08:11 i mean 21:08:30 hmm, actually. 21:09:00 i meant you cannot do stuff like lambda a:lambda b:a, but you definitely can, at least that exact thinmg 21:09:01 *thing 21:09:27 #esoteric-blah 21:09:35 well anyway, that's one of the things that are not allowed for purely functional okopython 21:09:38 sure 21:09:40 -!- stackoverbotter has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:09:46 hmm 21:09:50 i could just have used bf for tat 21:09:51 *that 21:11:43 -!- oklopol has quit (Excess Flood). 21:11:49 [21:11:15] oklopol: make a bot that replies to "lolz" with "stackoverbotter: hi" 21:11:54 -!- oklopol has joined. 21:11:57 [21:11:15] oklopol: make a bot that replies to "lolz" with "stackoverbotter: hi" 21:12:04 [21:11:15] oklopol: make a bot that replies to "lolz" with "stackoverbotter: hi" 21:12:41 ya i saw that 21:16:42 -!- RedDak has quit ("Killed (NickServ (Comando GHOST usato da DIO))"). 21:21:39 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 21:26:53 ^reload 21:26:54 Reloaded. 21:27:17 No functional changes, just made it a bit easier to add commands that do replies. 21:28:38 ^ilikeapples 21:28:47 What should it do? 21:29:10 it should say "i like them too, but i liked them before they were cool" 21:29:13 hmm 21:29:15 or popular 21:29:22 perhaps cool, that makes less sense 21:29:53 EVERYONE PITCH IN, WE NEED TO MAKE FIZZIE'S BOT MASSIVE AND USELESS 21:30:41 fizzie: add an addcmd function 21:30:46 hmm, can trds recall events from before it was loaded?? 21:30:48 *command 21:30:48 *-? 21:30:53 ^addcmd cmdname brainfuckprogram 21:30:59 fizzie: it gets its arguments as input 21:31:02 yeah, automatically allocates space for the code 21:31:04 and output goes to the channel 21:31:04 so 21:31:07 noooo it needs to be funge :) 21:31:09 ^addcmd echo ,[.,] 21:31:11 and you can then do 21:31:22 ^echo hi 21:31:55 you could probably use a separate Z-level for each added command, and use threading to get around "safely" in the code 21:32:40 oklopol; It would need some more extensions. Plain concurrent-funge doesn't help, since when the "main IP" does the IRC read, it blocks all other IPs from executing. 21:32:57 Also with funge-space writing possibilities, I don't think it's very easy to do it safely. 21:33:26 well true, perhaps there should be a safe-thread fingerprint 21:33:26 use a non blocking erad 21:33:45 MikeRiley: would probably require a considerable structural change 21:34:00 what are you trying to do??? 21:34:14 MikeRiley: make his ircbot let you write befunge modules 21:34:16 I'd rather use some sort of scheme that doesn't mean running at full CPU utilization. This thing makes a horrible noise if you make it shift to the higher cpufreq levels. 21:34:53 perhaps give it less processor time 21:34:54 and i take it one ip may block on a read while others still need to be running?? 21:35:12 Yes. I think there was some talk about a fingerprint that would help in this. 21:35:34 anyway i think my fingerprint will be for safe threads 21:35:37 well,,,SCKE gives you a way to see if a socket read would block or not... 21:35:45 in case one doesn't exist 21:36:00 because i decided i'd make a fingerprint, i think, a few days ago 21:36:17 Still not sure I'm comfortable with running code in the same interpreter as the IRC bot. It needs some more thinking first. The brainfuck-based command adding would be easier. 21:36:34 would it suffice to let the user specify what commands are safe to run? 21:36:42 and perhaps some additional limitations on p and g 21:36:47 Anyway, busy with other stuff now, can't really participate in the enlightening debate. 21:36:54 :) 21:54:52 oklopol: 21:54:55 *IRC> unparse $ Prefixed (UserPrefix "tusho" "n=tusho" "foobar") (PRIVMSG (Channel "#esoteric") "Hello, world!") ":tusho!n=tusho@foobar PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, world!" 21:54:57 discuss 21:55:39 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit ("Verlassend"). 21:57:53 tusho: that looks like a good star 21:57:56 *start 21:58:03 yes 21:58:10 unfortunately I have to specialcase every parser 21:58:15 as I can't dynamically get PRIVMSG, etc 21:58:18 I might just use Network.IRC 21:58:23 even though using strings for command names is less cool 22:12:29 -!- MikeRiley has quit (" "). 22:12:53 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 22:34:29 oklopol: rate the okoness of this code: http://hpaste.org/9693#a1 22:34:43 it echoes all messages in the channels it's in, or that it's /msg'd 22:34:50 fungot would turn ":tusho!n=tusho@foobar PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, world!" to funge-space stored cells so that (0,4) = 1 (indicating that there was a prefix), (1-x,4) = "tusho!n=tusho@foobar\0", (0,5) = 2 (number of arguments), (1-x,5) = "PRIVMSG\0", (0-x,6) = "#esoteric\0", (0-x,7) = "Hello, world!\0". 22:35:53 If you manage to get an IRC message with >100 arguments, it starts to overwrite code with them, actually. The spec promises that there are always <=15 arguments, but an evil IRC server could do the nasty. 22:36:03 (And going away again.) 22:38:33 tusho: it looks a quite oko, and very weird 22:38:37 *-a 22:38:42 oklopol: but readable, right? 22:38:53 i think it's pretty easy to comprehend 22:38:54 somewhat, i'm not sure what arg does 22:39:10 oklopol: arg takes a function and passes the next argument of the command to it 22:39:36 <|> ? 22:39:45 oklopol: part of Control.Alternate 22:39:49 basically, "if this fails, try this" 22:39:55 figured 22:39:58 well guessed 22:40:16 figured would imply i asked for fun 22:40:51 yeah that's readable 22:44:48 -!- oerjan has joined. 22:46:35 oklopol: readable oko? :O 22:47:54 :P 22:47:55 sure 22:48:07 oerjan: nice to see you, we're on cleaner topics today 22:48:17 (for the most part) 22:49:34 whew 22:50:09 I wouldn't call my befunge stuff "clean", but on the other hand we're not particularly "on it" either. 22:55:43 well i wouldn't call my python bot that clean either, and i don't think we've been on anything else for a while 22:56:11 well gender issues, but that was very clean 22:56:57 optbot! 22:56:57 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | you have to *tell* me the issue before I can solve it, unless you want me to make shit up.. 22:57:28 hey, that's relevant! maybe. 22:57:46 optbot: the issue was gender, if i understand your question 22:57:46 oklopol: and a dot a bit above the vertical line 22:57:56 and i don't think you can really solve it :D 22:58:29 optbot: that definitely has nothing to do with anything 22:58:29 oklopol: Once before, Google cut back my site from 89,000,000 to 22:58:37 to what, optbot? 22:58:37 oklopol: ??? 22:58:48 err, to what, optbot? wasn't that clear enough 22:58:49 oklopol: i mean open it 22:59:05 right they opened it, scrambled its brain, and usercount dropped? 22:59:22 damn, i forgot he needs to hear his name all the time. 22:59:28 what a self-centered bastard 22:59:31 optbot optbot optbot. 22:59:31 dogface: ouch 22:59:35 mmm, scrambled brains... 22:59:39 Sorry, optbot. 22:59:40 dogface: Dunno. 23:00:27 optbot: Hello. I am dogface. How can I help you? 23:00:27 dogface: uhm chose 3 of them 23:00:44 optbot: Please go on. 23:00:44 dogface: :) bye 23:01:07 optbot: You are sure? 23:01:07 dogface: binary tree 23:01:19 optbot: Please go on. 23:01:19 dogface: at the same time 23:01:24 trinary bee 23:01:29 optbot: how does that make you feel? 23:01:29 oklopol: CamelCase is very lame though :P 23:01:34 optbot: What resemblance do you see? 23:01:34 dogface: will work 23:01:50 optbot: Please go on. 23:01:50 dogface: okay 23:01:51 optbot: what's a trinary bee? 23:01:52 oklopol: its so cheesy XD 23:02:02 :O 23:02:05 optbot: Please go on. 23:02:05 dogface: I noticed that English has a missing grammar construct. 23:02:19 Hey, I think I said that. 23:02:29 optbot: Can you elaborate on that? 23:02:30 wow, google corrects it to ternary bee, which has one hit 23:02:30 dogface: brainfuck 23:02:47 optbot: Please go on. 23:02:47 dogface: bye 23:02:49 :D 23:02:57 optbot: Please go on. 23:02:57 dogface: I thought that C did no abstraction on that. . . 23:03:04 english needs more brainfuck, we can all agree on that! 23:03:15 optbot: Can you elaborate on that? 23:03:16 dogface: I don't know if lament is part of the committee, or just waiting for a coup d'etat. 23:03:33 optbot: Do you wish that lament is part of the committee or just waiting for a coup detat? 23:03:33 dogface: ftr 23:03:45 Please go on... 23:12:08 optbot: true? 23:12:08 KingOfKarlsruhe: some water 23:12:14 optbot: false? 23:12:15 KingOfKarlsruhe: same thing. 23:13:00 optbot: sure? 23:13:00 KingOfKarlsruhe: * Pepperoni wonders how a Pez Pizza would taste. 23:14:08 optbot: what does Pez Pizza wonder? 23:14:08 oerjan: yes... in some way or another... 23:18:01 heh, for a second i thought KingOfKarlsruhe and oerjan were having the weirdest conversation ever 23:18:37 hehe 23:18:42 ooh 23:18:46 let's all talk like optbot for a bit 23:18:46 tusho: tell me 23:18:51 (without the mandatory name addressing) 23:19:25 tusho: too hard 23:19:53 oklopol: i don't think it'd work unless you had a good algorithm 23:21:34 actually dancing links is not that efficient for that 23:23:57 oklopol: wtf??? 23:24:29 it's giving the same error still 23:25:53 *Main> decodeAndHandle "PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi\r\n" 23:25:53 [Message Nothing "PRIVMSG" ["#esoteric","hi"]] 23:25:55 OHHHH YEAH 23:26:04 nice, readable, working code! 23:27:53 what's that Nothing there? 23:27:58 oklopol: no message prefix 23:28:04 ya figured 23:28:10 and once again, guessed is better 23:28:16 *Main> decodeAndHandle ":tusho!n=tusho@serv PRIVMSG a :hi\r\n" 23:28:17 [Message Nothing "PRIVMSG" ["tusho","hi"]] 23:28:20 aaaand bot messages work too! 23:28:24 all I have to do now is plug it into the network 23:28:31 also why the fuck do i need to tell people i would've guessed right :P 23:28:49 yayeee 23:30:20 Should I do that "^bfcmd echo ,[.,] after which ^echo foo is processed as ^bf ,[.,]!foo" thing? 23:30:54 I don't feel like puzzling the *funge execution stuff out just yet. 23:30:57 fungot: you can't, bots can't code 23:31:11 Well, should I have fizzie do that? 23:31:18 fungot: yes 23:31:39 Well, it could be the fun, and provide some much-needed interactivimotity. 23:31:56 can you elaborate on interactivimotity 23:32:10 Getting you people to use fungot for something. 23:34:14 yes fizzie 23:34:15 do it 23:34:19 hmm 23:34:27 fizzie: it'd be nice to be able to do it as a uri 23:34:39 ^bfcmduri echo http://foo.com/my_underload_interp 23:34:43 err 23:34:45 s/echo/ul/ 23:36:56 Well, I may add that support at some point. I wonder how good RC/Funge-98 is with fungespace resource usage, though, if I allocate a single line of tens of thousands of cells (not long for a brainfuck program, I guess). 23:38:17 oklopol: http://hpaste.org/9694 23:38:18 my irc bot so far 23:38:21 I just need to add networkability 23:38:23 and tada 23:39:11 oklopol: think it's readable 23:39:12 and okoy 23:43:10 tusho: it's readable, less weird than your original 23:43:17 i'm not sure about its okoness 23:43:19 less weird? howso? :P 23:43:23 it's not all that different 23:43:36 but it has more stuff, so the weird doesn't stand out! 23:43:48 also it wasn't that weird after i knew what stuff meant, ofc. 23:44:25 oklopol: i think it's kind of okoy in that it's kind of a bizzare model (the hugely nested lambda thing) that allows you to write really short, but comprehendable code 23:45:19 yarrrrr 23:51:25 Huh, RC/Funge-98 segfaulted. 23:56:27 -!- Judofyr has quit. 23:59:43 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Ex-Chat").