< 1219105694 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[True story, I swear: Major software company in Andalusia. A mate of mine is coding using vi. His supervisor walks up behind him and after spying over his shoulder for a couple of minutes, interrupts his work and demands to know what he's doing. "Coding." "But you must use Word." She says. "Why?" "Well, it has a lot of advantages. For example the 'undo' function..."]] -- reddit comment < 1219106495 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | http://your.site/funge/fingerprints/name < 1219106825 0 :dogface!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1219107730 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot! < 1219107730 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | whether the alphabet is or isn't a notation for sounds depends on the language < 1219107769 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1219108189 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Client terminated by server" < 1219108200 0 :cmeme!n=cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1219109538 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving..." < 1219110076 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1219110179 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"FAN FRIED EGGS" < 1219112130 0 :dogface!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1219112803 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1219112824 0 :psygnisfive!n=psygnisf@c-71-57-164-119.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1219113514 0 :dogface_!n=ihope@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1219125571 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know lots about the alphabet. :D < 1219125679 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1219126312 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1219127124 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great topic :D < 1219128095 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | Whee. < 1219128983 0 :cherez!n=cherez@r02snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1219129048 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1219129061 0 :cherez!n=cherez@r02snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1219129074 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1219129102 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot; You just had to change the topic to something uninspired like that when someone pointed out the previous was great? < 1219129102 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: !raw quit < 1219129126 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot; And stop trying to trick me to quit. I am not a silly bot! < 1219129126 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: *Goldbach < 1219129152 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot; Huh? "Silly Goldbach"? < 1219129152 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the app "shoes" must be started from /path/to/shoes < 1219129170 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot; Now you're just making no sense again. < 1219129170 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ~exec self.print_callbacks() < 1219129185 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot; Not a bot! How many times I have to tell you this? < 1219129186 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's what that error always means < 1219132799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1219132800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1219140647 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1219140647 0 :clog!i=nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1219141006 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host41-89-dynamic.3-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1219141416 0 :Slereah_!n=x@ANantes-252-1-15-165.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1219141416 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1219141577 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Jesus loves you" < 1219141664 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1219142008 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1219142023 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1219142033 0 :Slereah_!n=x@ANantes-252-1-15-165.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1219142350 0 :Slereah!n=x@ANantes-252-1-15-165.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1219142351 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1219144005 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1219144014 0 :Slereah_!n=x@ANantes-252-1-15-165.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1219144195 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1219145026 0 :Slereah_!n=x@ANantes-252-1-15-165.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1219145782 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1219145803 0 :Slereah_!n=x@ANantes-252-1-15-165.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1219146000 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1219146070 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1219146080 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-091-096-060-197.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1219147286 0 :LinuS!n=LinuS@net-93-146-228-79.t2.dsl.vodafone.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1219147343 0 :Slereah!n=x@ANantes-252-1-15-165.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1219147376 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1219148893 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1219149242 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host41-89-dynamic.3-79-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1219149493 0 :tusho!n=tusho@91.105.80.203 JOIN :#esoteric < 1219149678 0 :Slereah_!n=x@ANantes-252-1-15-165.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1219149678 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1219149695 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | 2 ais523: daemon deadfish funge93 < 1219150821 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god < 1219150826 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duke nukem forever... < 1219150827 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is ... < 1219150832 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DONE < 1219150839 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1219150841 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damnit! < 1219150842 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it's not < 1219150909 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what possessed you to think it was < 1219151108 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: slashdot's incompetent editors < 1219151111 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://slashdot.org/ < 1219151120 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"OMG!! DNF RELEASED! Update: wait no it was another game" < 1219151160 0 :LinuS!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1219151228 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, nice tags < 1219151229 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kdawsonsucks, badsummary, wrongsummary, !dukenukemforever < 1219151333 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why didn't they just nuke the fecking story < 1219153207 0 :Slereah!n=x@ANantes-252-1-15-165.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1219153207 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1219153401 0 :Tritonio_!n=tritonio@150.140.226.176 JOIN :#esoteric < 1219154605 0 :Slereah_!n=x@ANantes-252-1-15-165.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1219154605 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1219154681 0 :Slereah!n=x@ANantes-252-1-15-165.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1219154681 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1219155110 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1219155948 0 :Slereah_!n=x@ANantes-252-1-15-165.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1219155948 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1219156129 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1219156139 0 :Slereah_!n=x@ANantes-252-1-15-165.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1219156323 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1219157174 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1219157494 0 :asiekierka!n=asiekier@user-89-108-227-169.mobile.playmobile.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1219157496 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1219157527 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am thinking about an esolang where you're a shopper. < 1219157529 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically < 1219157549 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :product milk "Mustang Milk" 130 < 1219157562 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Means a milk the brand "Mustang Milk" costs 130 cents < 1219157574 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or variable "Mustang Milk" from the "milk" array equals to 130 < 1219157647 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i was thinking more something like constraint satisfaction < 1219157673 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take "Mustang Milk" OR take milk "Mustang Milk" will put "Mustang Milk" in the baset < 1219157675 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basket* < 1219157680 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or put 130 on the stack < 1219157702 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1219157711 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i'm not sure what my exact idea is < 1219157716 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda lost it < 1219157742 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :putback will remove the topmost item from the stack < 1219157747 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the shopping cart is clearly a set, not a stack :) < 1219157758 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it'll be used like a stack < 1219157760 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in < 1219157770 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can only access the topmost item(s) < 1219157773 0 :Slereah_!n=x@ANantes-252-1-26-205.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1219157787 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: what's the up? < 1219157808 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :addprices will add the 2 topmost product prices together, remove the products, and put the total price on the stack. < 1219157849 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :subprices will subtract the first (topmost) with the second (second topmost). < 1219157856 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you can access a little paper piece < 1219157859 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that can store one digit < 1219157872 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :addpaper will add 1 to the paper piece < 1219157876 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :subpaper will subtract 1 from it < 1219157907 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must write some sort of docs about it < 1219158003 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shop will be a lot like chef, but not so < 1219158370 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol : Wat < 1219158854 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :tusho|away < 1219159725 0 :tusho|away!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :tusho < 1219161832 0 :LinuS!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone tought about esolang about 2d platform? < 1219161841 0 :LinuS!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jump, killenemy, kick < 1219161842 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1219161843 0 :LinuS!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1219161854 0 :LinuS!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2d platform game i mean, mario and such < 1219161857 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it isn't a that good idea. < 1219161863 0 :LinuS!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1219161864 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once had an idea of an esolang based on Portal < 1219161869 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXPLAIN < 1219161875 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly based on Rube. < 1219161877 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please, for the love of my Portal obsession, explain! < 1219161881 0 :LinuS!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1219161889 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, do you know Rube? < 1219161925 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can check it < 1219161941 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{{oh god, not lagged IE typing again!}} < 1219161946 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rube is already pretty 2D platform to begin with < 1219161952 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My idea was some sort of Rube. < 1219161954 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But now! < 1219161959 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're thinking with portals! < 1219161994 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a cake command? < 1219162009 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the Cake was supposed to be the end of the program < 1219162018 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once that L reached it < 1219162021 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it can't < 1219162025 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't put cake < 1219162029 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE CAKE IS A LIE < 1219162030 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(L being < 1219162048 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because she kinda looks like an L with her big feet contraptions < 1219162061 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you'll put cake, it isn't Portal-compilant anymore. It can only have cake AFTER the end of the program. Haha. < 1219162069 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can end it with a... incinerator. < 1219162070 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1219162073 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That fire pit < 1219162074 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thing < 1219162081 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incinerator is to destroy boxes < 1219162090 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boxes that contains data. < 1219162096 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like in Rube, that is < 1219162102 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except they're not boxes. < 1219162140 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're the Aperture Science Weighted Storage Cubes < 1219162140 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1219162149 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're Aperture Science Weighted Storage Cubes < 1219162157 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1219162157 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where are the Companion Cubes? < 1219162178 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So far, I have no idea how to include it < 1219162197 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about them storing strings? < 1219162204 0 :LinuS!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uuh! < 1219162206 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1219162206 0 :LinuS!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had it know < 1219162213 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or can the storage cubes do this too < 1219162217 0 :LinuS!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as esolang that has the game level file < 1219162222 0 :LinuS!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as instructions < 1219162224 0 :LinuS!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1219162226 0 :LinuS!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an* < 1219162237 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's rube based < 1219162247 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the boxes contain hex values. < 1219162263 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can output them as char and such < 1219162359 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where are the actual portals < 1219162379 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, they're pre-existing. < 1219162390 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1219162395 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My first idea was to do just Befunge, but with portals < 1219162399 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's no (standalone) portal gun? < 1219162403 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also < 1219162410 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that the pointer could enter a portal and such < 1219162411 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could realize befungeportals as two text files < 1219162433 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then the pointer will start at the same Y position, but at the X where it finds a blue portal < 1219162435 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1219162437 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other portal < 1219162469 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My idea was just to place a whole bunch of portals and then to include a bit of text that explained how they were connected < 1219162568 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But odds are, I'll never make an interpreter < 1219162572 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1219162577 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have already 3 interpreter-less languages < 1219162585 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they have actual specs < 1219162593 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have one interpreter-less language < 1219162594 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRCot < 1219162597 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for making an ircbot in < 1219162598 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, except Arithmetica. It's sort of fuzzy. < 1219162600 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really bad < 1219162998 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka, are you planning on being involved in rootnomic/normish? < 1219163008 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean by "involved" < 1219163018 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you about? < 1219163021 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Voting, and stuff < 1219163026 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes. < 1219163038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes partly < 1219163046 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing is, each player raises quorum.. < 1219163082 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: which ones were BAD for you in Mycology's concurrency test; the "a b" one, any others? < 1219163189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, the k one too, again I checked that the actual tick count for k was correct < 1219163197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess the error happen somewhere in between them < 1219163203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just before I mean < 1219163230 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: great, because I realized a silly error in CCBI that might cause that and I was right and now CCBI has the same errors :-) < 1219163236 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so you can chill, Mycology is bugged < 1219163240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1219163247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what was the issue? < 1219163258 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have two IPs, A and B < 1219163265 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where A is executed first < 1219163265 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1219163277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes? < 1219163322 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then if A does 'p' to place a space/semicolon where B would next execute, the B would execute that in one tick instead of zero < 1219163330 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming this happens in one tick < 1219163343 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. if B did the same to A it wouldn't happen < 1219163343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, that sound extremely odd < 1219163361 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it was a very stupid thing I did in version 1.0.3 or so < 1219163386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't see how it could happen, are you pre-fetching the next instruction or something? < 1219163388 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue was concurrent tracing, where I wanted all IPs to show the next instruction they would execute instead of space/semicolon < 1219163397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh I see < 1219163402 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what I did was ip.gotoNextInstruction before the execution loop, for all IPs < 1219163409 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this isn't yet stupid < 1219163432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1219163439 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I then noticed that an IP was occasionally reflecting because it was trying to execute space/semicolon < 1219163460 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I did the stupid fix: add the instructions back that were there before, for space and semicolon < 1219163471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, it shouldn't reflect on those, ever. < 1219163473 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, with the new gotoNextInstruction scheme, would take one tick < 1219163488 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: they were removed from the main execute() thing because they should never have come there < 1219163496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah... < 1219163497 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they should be bypassed in gotoNextInstruction < 1219163502 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then I added them back < 1219163504 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was stupid < 1219163512 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then they are of course like any other instruction < 1219163514 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and take one tick < 1219163535 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :earlier I had some kind of "bool executeAgain;" which took care of them as a special case < 1219163549 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think, anyway) < 1219163552 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, stupid bug < 1219163561 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just realized a few days ago that that might cause it < 1219163566 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and seems I was right < 1219163690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well this means rc/funge will fail again iirc < 1219163700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it passed while mycology had that bug < 1219163744 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, probably < 1219163775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for a while cfunge was more conforming than CCBI hehe < 1219165468 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-44-52.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1219165510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1219165775 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1219165810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did I miss? < 1219165818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my computer crashed < 1219165846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even kernel panic, just rebooted and refused to start until I unplugged it and replugged it < 1219165851 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naked women. < 1219165869 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5,000,000 of them. < 1219165889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :refused to start as in: locked up before bios started < 1219165900 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're now so bored with them that we turned gay < 1219165910 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speak for yourself < 1219165928 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still excited about them < 1219165991 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: still? now it's 10,000,000 < 1219166000 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yawn. naked women are so 5 minutes ago < 1219166057 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :No route to host < 1219166057 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1219166288 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/codesearch?q=die_you_gravy_sucking_pig_dog < 1219166493 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1219167222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1219167625 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1219169855 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1219170044 0 :Tritonio_!n=tritonio@150.140.226.176 JOIN :#esoteric < 1219170655 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: new Mycology (and CCBI) < 1219170803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1219170813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, forgot the url < 1219170895 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iki.fi/deewiant < 1219170918 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh, you just need to remember "iki" and then whois me for the rest ;-) < 1219171295 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | having an extra digit does increase the risk that some more easily useful combination may arise. < 1219171363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* [Deewiant] (n=mniemenm@peridootti.hut.fi): Matti Niemenmaa <-- eh? < 1219171375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw what does iki mean? < 1219171379 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so you get .fi as well as deewiant < 1219171392 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alternatively, iki.fi/matti.niemenmaa < 1219171412 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/iki < 1219171460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it works except... < 1219171464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Testing fingerprint SUBR... loaded. < 1219171468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1219171473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in it locks up there < 1219171475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very odd < 1219171481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't lock up there on the old one < 1219171482 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see the readme.txt < 1219171491 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably to do with the fact that { is now used in many places < 1219171507 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means, storage offsets better work < 1219171535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well they do as far as I know < 1219171536 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/the readme.txt/the changelog in the readme.txt/ < 1219171554 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, do you apply them when popping vectors in SUBR? < 1219171563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1219171574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the specs doesn't say so do they? < 1219171623 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :applying the offset is the default < 1219171631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.elf-emulation.com/funge/rcfunge_manual.html#SUBR < 1219171637 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only if it explicitly says that it shouldn't be applied that you shouldn't apply them < 1219171647 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mike agrees FWIW < 1219171662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I say it is undefined < 1219171667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the specs currently read anyway < 1219171678 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: then complain to Mike if you see him < 1219171694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, http://www.elf-emulation.com/funge/rcfunge_manual.html#SUBR < 1219171702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is nothing about storage offset there < 1219171709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how the heck could I know when to pop it < 1219171710 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says "Va" < 1219171712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what value to use < 1219171714 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. Vector a < 1219171717 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. apply storage offset < 1219171720 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's a vector < 1219171735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vector a is where the code jumps in C? < 1219171737 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wiktionary does not really explain the meaning of "iki" in the iki.fi case; there it's an acronym for "Internet-käyttäjät ikuisesti", name of the organization providing those email addresses; "Internet Users Forever", in English. < 1219171746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same for J < 1219171753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, no? < 1219171762 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: probably yes < 1219171768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it doesn't say that should be the storage offset as well *anywhere* < 1219171772 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: and yeah, but it's obviously a pun on the real meaning as well < 1219171775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me where it says so, and I will change it < 1219171785 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it is a vector, so why not apply it, it would be stupid not to < 1219171805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well i takes a vector too, why not make it the storage offset while you are at it? < 1219171809 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, sure. And there's an english summary on www.iki.fi, so it's not like AnMaster has an excuse for not knowing it. < 1219171817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are making no sense Deewiant! < 1219171831 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: er, i /should/ use the storage offset as well < 1219171845 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: just like p and g < 1219171850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh you mean jump relative storage offset, it doesn't say that either < 1219171856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you meant set storage offset < 1219171863 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, of course not :-) < 1219171868 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my point is < 1219171876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway tell me where it says you should use the vector relative the offset < 1219171879 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shouldn't need to be explicitly said < 1219171887 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because otherwise { rapidly becomes useless < 1219171907 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a vector which points to funge-space, hence apply storage offset to it unless explicitly said that you shouldn't, period. < 1219171908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, why then does the standard say explicitly that g and p are relative that offset < 1219171936 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because the standard is written better than the RC/Funge-98 fingerprint specs ;-) < 1219171938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and yes storage sure, but not IP jump offset < 1219171942 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well sure he has an excuse (it's work) but it's not a very good one. < 1219171967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, storage offset is fine, jump offset is something else really < 1219171984 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so mail Chris and ask him to change the spec to say "storage/SUBR jump/TRDS jump/... offset" < 1219172026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, no, those fingerprints should say explicitly that the jump should be relative the offset < 1219172029 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the whole point of the storage offset is that you can specify vectors relative to the { point and thus you get code which is position-invariant (add a line before it and it still works, for instance) < 1219172055 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I agree that it would be better if they did say that, but I think it's stupid to not apply it even if it's not documented < 1219172070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, as the specs read now, I can only consider this a UNDEF < 1219172073 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The standard also bothers to explicitly state that the i/o instruction origin vectors are relative to storage offset, so I guess one could make a case that it doesn't sound very "default"-y. < 1219172084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the changelog you mentioned doesn't mention anything like that < 1219172102 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every time you talk about all that Befunge stuff, I get the feeling I should be improving fungot. < 1219172120 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hmm, crap, I thought it did < 1219172133 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I forgot to write about that :-/ < 1219172176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway 1) you can't change published fingerprints really 2) the published fingerprint doesn't say anything about storage offset. < 1219172185 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but anyway, Mike told me in an e-mail that it's a bug if any of those are not relative to the offset (REFC and one other weren't supposed to be, forget which) < 1219172187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That means it should be an UNDEF < 1219172193 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) is bullshit IMO < 1219172200 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 2) is Mike's crap writing < 1219172210 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the guy can't document to save his life :-P < 1219172223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe, but it is still a UNDEF as the documentation currently reads < 1219172236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so mail him and tell him to fix it < 1219172262 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I often tell him to fix stuff but he only updates the docs 2+ releases after he makes the change in his interpreter ;-P < 1219172314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so should return be absolute or? < 1219172343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also about documenting, wtf is my SUBR call doing, I need to add more comments < 1219172351 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1219172385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why on earth am I creating a temporary stack < 1219172386 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: absolute in CCBI are: deltas, REFC, ORTH. < 1219172402 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing else. < 1219172455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so if you use refc to store a reference to a cell then change storage offset and then dereferences the cell, it will be fixed so it works for g and p with current offset? < 1219172457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what? < 1219172483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway, either mail Mike about this or make it a UNDEF. < 1219172485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean it < 1219172497 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nah, it's just both pushed and popped without the storage offset. < 1219172499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because considering that well defined is insane < 1219172511 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'll tell him if I see him here, I expect you to do likewise < 1219172512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so REFC is basically useless with offsets then? < 1219172527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, no as I consider absolute for jump better < 1219172533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I won't mention it < 1219172551 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why would it be better < 1219172553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway for now I shall have to note that mycology is buggy and can't handle this UNDEF then? < 1219172631 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why don't you say it's buggy because it doesn't handle k as UNDEF < 1219172662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well now it is well defined with the catseye diagnosis tools < 1219172682 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, 2k ;;;5 for instance is still UNDEF according to the letter of the spec < 1219172688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, also you have messed with STRN it seems? < 1219172698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAD: G reflects < 1219172702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without any reason < 1219172708 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't know what I have messed with, in order to add new fingerprints many old ones now use { < 1219172732 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: at least there you can't argue that it's not a "storage" offset :-P < 1219172747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I will consider all that doesn't explicitly say that they are relative the storage offset as absolute < 1219172756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and SUBR is more useful when absolute < 1219172771 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so what about k < 1219172784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :means you can call utility functions at absolute offset even when you are in a { < 1219172791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with relative it would be painful to do that < 1219172824 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that way if you define functions within the { and then move the code in the file, you're screwed. < 1219172840 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the relative way is more general < 1219172841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm? < 1219172846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you mean < 1219172863 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, with absolute, if you add a line earlier, you have to change all your code because the y-coordinate is different. < 1219172864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would have to recalculate where the functions are every time you change a { < 1219172871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which seems worse < 1219172878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are screwed if you move the { block basically < 1219172880 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with relative, you don't have to recalculate anything. < 1219172884 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, with absolute. not with relative. < 1219172917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, no, say you want to call a utility function at (4,5) from inside a {-block at 47,23 < 1219172939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now if you move that { block to 48,29... you are screwed with relative addressing < 1219172946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with absolute it would work just fine < 1219172953 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: make a utility function within the { which subtracts the storage offset (using u) and calls the outer utility function < 1219172970 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :relative can handle all cases with more maintainability than absolute < 1219172973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :u? isn't that some Trefunge function? < 1219172988 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, it's "stack under stack" < 1219172991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1219172992 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: m and l are Trefunge < 1219172999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and h < 1219173001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1219173014 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1219173027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway utility function, you just love making the code more complex < 1219173050 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I love making code maintainable < 1219173059 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing Mycology taught me that < 1219173093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well the specs doesn't say anything about it, so make it an UNDEF until they do < 1219173111 0 :dogface_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In SKI calculus, can you prove that `sk is equivalent to `ki without using the axiom (for all x, `ax = `bx) => a = b? < 1219173136 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I can't possibly make it an undef without fucking up mycology and having to duplicate fingerprints for the absolute/relative cases, plus losing maintainability again because of the absolute stuff < 1219173163 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what's wrong with you just fixing cfunge before the new spec is published?? < 1219173174 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not like anybody's using those fingerprints who would care :-P < 1219173181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, because I follow published standards < 1219173216 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I see, so how does your t instruction work < 1219173220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so should the return address pushed by C be relative offset? or absolute with offset added? < 1219173240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what do you mean about t? < 1219173245 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what's the difference? < 1219173254 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, t as specified in the spec is an infinite loop + forkbomb < 1219173270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well either it pushes the vector + offset, or it pushes the vector without the offset < 1219173272 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because it doesn't say the child IP should move after being forked < 1219173281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1219173294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :position - offset < 1219173295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1219173297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :position < 1219173298 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: with offset of course so that it all works within { < 1219173310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so if you leave { then it returns to wrong place? < 1219173311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1219173312 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1219173326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : StackPushVector(ip->stack, &VectorCreateRef(ip->position.x - ip->storageOffset.x, ip->position.y - ip->storageOffset.y)); < 1219173329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so something like that? < 1219173371 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: erm, that's like saying that if you change EIP within a function "ret" won't work properly < 1219173385 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: something like that yes < 1219173395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it would be a lot easier if the docs said this < 1219173398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agree? < 1219173408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so get Mike to update the docs < 1219173424 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, and yes < 1219173425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and get the JSTR author to update too < 1219173432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that doesn't say anything about relative either < 1219173448 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck with that, his befunge page was down last I checked < 1219173457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The standard also bothers to explicitly state that the i/o instruction origin vectors are relative to storage offset, so I guess one could make a case that it doesn't sound very "default"-y. < 1219173464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so I agree with fizzie there < 1219173470 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like said, the standard is well written, unlike mike's docs < 1219173473 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I agree with fizzie here. < 1219173480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, shut up :P < 1219173500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1219173504 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just pointed out that one could make the case it's not very defaulty. My personal intuitive feeling is that all funge-space access should happen "as if" it was done with g/p, unless otherwise specified. < 1219173547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what in the REFC, and ORTH specs says it is *not* relative the offset then < 1219173592 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: doing REFC your way might make more sense (i.e. make it work regardless of in or outside {) < 1219173604 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but the basic point there is that the REFC list is global < 1219173608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, no I won't do it that way, as the specs doesn't say so < 1219173619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just noted you were illogical < 1219173631 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so how about your t < 1219173635 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: cfunge is incompliant < 1219173653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, indeed it does move but that is because it wouldn't work at all otherwise < 1219173662 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXACTLY. < 1219173665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1219173672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all these other ones work either way < 1219173678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus I prefer to follow the standard < 1219173682 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, one way being drastically more useless than the other < 1219173688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, or you could consider the t move UNDEF < 1219173689 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the standard not being explicit about it < 1219173694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowhere does it say it shouldn't move either < 1219173701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you are free to do whichever you want < 1219173712 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-44-52.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1219173719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same for these with storage offset < 1219173752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, where does it say ORTH is absolute? < 1219173759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I checked http://catseye.tc/projects/funge98/library/ORTH.html < 1219173764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't mention "offset" anywhere < 1219173771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why isn't your relative then? < 1219173774 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the Orthogonal language doesn't have offset < 1219173795 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since those are meant to duplicate them directly, I think that makes sense < 1219173799 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although this is arguable < 1219173857 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another point is simply usefulness: if they're to use the offset then they're just \g and \p < 1219173863 0 :asiekierka!n=asiekier@user-89-108-227-169.mobile.playmobile.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1219173866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, certainly it is, it means just adding a "HTRO"4(....{ won't work as prefix to make it run under befunge (plus of course change the instructions to those in fingerprints) < 1219173868 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they don't, they're actually worth something < 1219173869 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1219173884 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Are any new fungot langs there? < 1219173906 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope; been busy. < 1219173945 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably add back some sort of method to give it longer-than-500-characters programs before starting to work on any new interpreters. < 1219173946 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :tusho|away < 1219174032 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there are some ugly brainfuck dependencies in the code, too. Hopefully not too many. < 1219174163 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, I don't use { or SUBR at all; I call my two "functions" (prepare program, execute program) by sending the IP down on column 5 or column 6 with the language ID (and a where-to-return value under it) on the stack; there are :1-#v_ -style sequences to pick the interpreter, and those return in columns 79/80 with that where-to-return code on top of stack. < 1219174168 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very ugly. < 1219174184 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds similar to what I do in Mycology to load fingerprints < 1219174185 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Maintainable Befunge" just feels a bit weird. < 1219174188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, do you use FING or FNGR? < 1219174193 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FNGR IIRC < 1219174205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider changing to FING if you use FNGR < 1219174208 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still FNGR, but I can switch to FING easily. Meant to do that, but haven't yet. < 1219174216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1219174243 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FNGR is used on the first 3 lines only and )d afterwards; not much to change. < 1219174250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway I committed changes to make mycology happy, with a note that this is really an UNDEF but mycology treats it as well defined when it isn't < 1219174260 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: which ones did you have to change < 1219174261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, JSTR, STRN and SUBR are affected < 1219174264 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright < 1219174270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please contact the authors to make them update the docs < 1219174275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you wish to keep it this way < 1219174337 0 :tusho|away!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :tusho < 1219174338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and if you want me to change REFC to the way I suggested above: forget it < 1219174348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was just pointing out how illogical you were being < 1219174371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won't change REFC unless it's specs are updated < 1219174408 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see lack of logic anywhere, just caring about usefulness and intention more than about precisely what is written < 1219174515 0 :MeTh0Dz!n=MeTh0Dz@cpe-98-30-81-169.woh.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1219174629 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1219174631 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant is right < 1219174633 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who wrote REFC? < 1219174640 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it was MikeRiley, well, you know what he's always like < 1219174646 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"yeah,,,you're right...i'll change it" < 1219174669 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best to just cut to the chase, and avoid bureauacracy < 1219174679 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: it's an old cat's-eye fingerprint, so probably chris pressey < 1219174689 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Then it'll never be updated. < 1219174691 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1219174693 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1219174700 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is defining it to be useful so wrong? < 1219174720 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: To satisfy AnMaster, maybe call it RFCT < 1219174721 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1219174736 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, it's not worth it < 1219174740 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :REFC is fairly useless anyway < 1219174760 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: perhaps you should have a mycology_opinionated.b98 < 1219174765 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1219174766 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that tests UNDEF things < 1219174769 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1219174782 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for Reasonable Behaviour(TM)) < 1219174791 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycology_for_people_with_common_sense.b98 < 1219174803 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to be snide about it. < 1219174823 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycology_anmaster_keep_out.b98 < 1219174894 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycology_for_ircbots.b98 < 1219174925 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot; What do you think about the Great Relative/Absolute Funge-Space Addressing Controversy of 2008? < 1219174925 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It would be marginaly less irritating without furries. < 1219174927 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: no. < 1219174933 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LMAO@optbot < 1219174933 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: when writing C++ I have this strangest urge to write well-structured, oo-like code. < 1219174933 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycology_for_mycology.b98 < 1219174939 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot; Well, that much is undoubtedly true. < 1219174939 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: am I markov "Internetty" chain bots? < 1219174947 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycology_for_quines.b98 < 1219174948 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot; I don't know, are you? < 1219174949 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I can get Jesse van Herk to update JSTR's spec, I don't have to do anything < 1219174949 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: 4 < 1219174970 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycology_optbot.b98 < 1219174970 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: with your powers combined, i am captain ge...ahem < 1219174979 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1219175001 0 :Hiato!n=Hiato@dsl-245-8-129.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1219175055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"captain ge"? < 1219175071 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :captain ge...ahem < 1219175075 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :captain geahem! < 1219175083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1219175093 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GEAHM, GEARM, GEARMD, GARMED, ARMED < 1219175096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what should FING do on empty opcode stack? < 1219175108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ^ < 1219175121 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the spec doesn't say so I guess you can do whatever you want!!! < 1219175134 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Looks like he needs mycology_opinionated.b98! < 1219175146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm probably reflect for now, will ask Mike to clarify specs < 1219175154 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From the contet, I think it might've been captain geek. The conversation immediately before is about geeks. < 1219175162 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/tet/text/ < 1219175182 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Contet < 1219175183 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1219175203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :return stack->entries[--(stack->top)]; < 1219175206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that well defined in C < 1219175208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not < 1219175215 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not < 1219175224 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, magical pixies make it not work < 1219175225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sometimes those things aren't < 1219175225 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with extra brackets to boot < 1219175229 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stack->entries and stack->top are very different objects, I don't see why it wouldn't be. < 1219175231 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'those things'? < 1219175231 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"those things"? < 1219175235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm ok < 1219175240 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god sometimes I wish AnMaster actually knew how these things worked < 1219175241 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1219175267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, as in evaluation order < 1219175280 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Where is the ambiguity? < 1219175282 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is none. < 1219175285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember the details for what is undefined from the top of my head < 1219175291 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How on earth could it be? < 1219175295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :p[p++]; < 1219175296 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--x returns x, then decrements it. < 1219175297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example < 1219175302 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's a structure. < 1219175302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, < 1219175303 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x[y++] < 1219175305 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x->y and x->z aren't the same thing. < 1219175308 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just x[y++]. < 1219175313 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, what Deewiant said < 1219175314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : --x returns x, then decrements it. < 1219175317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other way around < 1219175328 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, yes, this mixing of prefix and postfix operators is confusing. < 1219175330 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My point still stands. < 1219175334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god sometimes I wish tusho actually knew what he talked about < 1219175338 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're not using something and modifying it in the same expression. < 1219175345 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And unlike yours, mine was just a thinko. < 1219175351 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god sometimes I wish AnMaster would concentrate on the whole and not the irrelevant details < 1219175391 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant++ < 1219175412 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The bickering! It's almost too much to bear! < 1219175424 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: Help! < 1219175424 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I am YOUR MOM < 1219175427 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!! < 1219175434 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: I never suspected!! < 1219175434 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ...yes < 1219175458 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Luke...I am...YOUR MOM" < 1219175463 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1219175468 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hahahaha oh good one Vader you got me there!" < 1219175475 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's go to the castle of YOUR FACE < 1219175726 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1219175812 0 :Hiato!n=Hiato@dsl-245-8-129.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1219175871 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1219176379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"BAD: Z did not push a reflect from empty source semantic stack" interesting < 1219176394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, Mike wrote some quite good test suites < 1219176405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still he should mention it in the specs < 1219176492 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.cust.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1219176495 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: good and good < 1219176504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm? < 1219176507 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: they don't test edge cases, normal functionality is okay though < 1219176515 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. stuff that should reverse, etc. < 1219176524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well the FING one tests edge cases at least < 1219176531 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, good < 1219176534 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a couple I've tried didn't < 1219176543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"GOOD: X with an empty semantic stack reflected" < 1219176545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example < 1219176557 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, he's ripping off mycology ;-) < 1219176558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that is interesting, it locked up < 1219176573 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will probably incorporate many of those in mycology < 1219176606 0 :Hiato!n=Hiato@dsl-245-8-129.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1219176618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you can't, they are way too sparse < 1219176641 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sparse? < 1219176647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the coding style! < 1219176651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is actually readable < 1219176655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't use THAT < 1219176657 0 :RedDak!n=dak@host13-86-dynamic.6-87-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1219176669 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: I refuse to respond, say something smart < 1219176670 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ok < 1219176672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, about edge cases... it does not handle well when it reflects but it didn't expect it too it seems < 1219176673 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1219176681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, :D < 1219176684 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: DATE for instance wasn't tested very well IMO < 1219176692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well I haven't checked that one yet < 1219176698 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and yeah, it doesn't handle that < 1219176702 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it expects everything to succeed < 1219176709 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and usually hits an @ immediately if something doesn't < 1219176720 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is of course not doable in mycology < 1219176756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually hrrm < 1219176757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1219176798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>I1-#v_0"1 sehsup niaga I :DOOG">:#,_$a,v < 1219176798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : >0"1 hsup ton seod I :DAB">:#,_$a,@ < 1219176799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1219176809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that reflects between > and the first I for some reason < 1219176854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't figure out why < 1219176857 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :between? < 1219176867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1219176875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tix=0 tid=0 x=0 y=61: > (62) < 1219176876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tix=0 tid=0 x=1 y=61: I (73) < 1219176876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tix=0 tid=0 x=0 y=61: > (62) < 1219176876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tix=0 tid=0 x=1 y=61: I (73) < 1219176877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that < 1219176892 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that different from reflecting at the I? < 1219176900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1219176913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is bouncing between them < 1219176913 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well what do you mean it reflects in between < 1219176922 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that < 1219176933 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just say it reflects at the I, much clearer :-P < 1219176938 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT6917941 what a ridiculous patent... < 1219176943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take two mirrors, place them facing each other < 1219176955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shine some light, the light will reflect between them < 1219176961 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know... < 1219176962 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to patent patents. < 1219176965 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey asiekierka, there's a proposal that seems to be about you in normish, I think you should at least vote one way or another on that < 1219176975 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they must pay me to patent their patents < 1219176976 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1219176978 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also < 1219176983 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme check < 1219176990 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuyqwe@bas2-toronto47-1242436482.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1219177022 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cull? < 1219177025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://www.google.com/patents?vid=USPAT6917941 what a ridiculous patent... <-- I don't understand what it is saying even < 1219177089 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems to move your home directory so you don't affect quorum, I think < 1219177097 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: duh, patents are written in dense legalese < 1219177102 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quorum? < 1219177108 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it essentially seems to be regarding making lists. In databases. < 1219177176 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :be back laterish < 1219177179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, err wtf < 1219177189 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol@patents :D < 1219177196 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can we abolish patents yet? < 1219177246 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know < 1219177268 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i had a patent goldfish, allowing me to accomplish one patent and get it accepted, no matter what it is or what it changes < 1219177272 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd patent patents < 1219177299 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, ha ha you are the first person to think of that < 1219177301 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :golly gee such humour < 1219177308 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, nothing would happen < 1219177311 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you sued people < 1219177312 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you did < 1219177312 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: golly gee < 1219177313 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: trick it out of the house? < 1219177314 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the courts would dismiss it < 1219177320 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"_ < 1219177321 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to, uh, fairly obvious prior use < 1219177343 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1219177783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah I found it < 1219177801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't check that X added the semantics back if it failed < 1219177811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know I should so I didn't do that < 1219177824 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems pretty obvious to me < 1219177828 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you fail, fail atomically < 1219177829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to mail him about it < 1219177855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you check if either semantic is NULL, now then if the other isn't NULL you need to push it back, the test should check that < 1219177876 0 :MikeRiley!n=rileym@las-static-208.57.195.80.mpowercom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1219177877 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1219177880 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it is very obvious that if an operation fails, you don't lose user data < 1219177907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, hi, your FING test doesn't check that X actually add back the other semantic if one of them are NULL < 1219177916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD: X with an empty semantic stack reflected < 1219177928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should also check that the other semantic was pushed back after < 1219177936 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmmm need to check on that....i thought it did... < 1219177937 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AROUND STACKS < 1219177940 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEVER RELAX < 1219177951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, now I just need to figure out why it says: BAD: M does not have M semantics from MODU < 1219177967 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: got my e-mail? < 1219177973 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hold on....let me get the test in front of me,,,then can explain it.... < 1219177979 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes,,,,was answering it.... < 1219177994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, unlike mycology your test is rather readable < 1219177995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1219177999 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just answer here as well < 1219178011 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok,,,,let me get anmaster's answer first.... < 1219178073 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster: GOOD: 'C'MZ did not reflect < 1219178073 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD: M has C semantics from ROMA < 1219178092 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these lines,,,,create a C semantic from ROMA on top of the M semantic stack... < 1219178092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes I figure that much < 1219178097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now why does it not have it < 1219178118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>53M2- <-- huh < 1219178123 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unloading MODU, will unload the ROMA/C semantic from M,,,,leaving the M that was already there... < 1219178173 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the correct response should be: GOOD: M has M semantics from MODU < 1219178193 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deewiant: it is in the documentation that I have,,,,just not been posted yet!!! < 1219178203 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: as I thought, so post it!! < 1219178220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, also newline is missing after "BAD: X did not push a...." < 1219178221 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: because AnMaster reads the posted stuff like the bible < 1219178222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1219178223 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes i make lots of changes in my local copies and do not get around to posting them... < 1219178224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, also newline is missing after "BAD: Z did not push a...." < 1219178226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what I meant < 1219178244 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is newline missing???? < 1219178254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : >0"kcats citnames ecruos ytpme morf tcelfer a hsup ton did Z :DAB">:#,_@ < 1219178266 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh...ok,,,that was on a termination one....ok..... < 1219178316 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :added it < 1219178323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, well what could be wrong if I get "BAD: M does not have M semantics from MODU" < 1219178336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrrm < 1219178352 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first,,,,does this work: GOOD: 'C'MZ did not reflect < 1219178365 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would have pushed the ROMA C semantic onto the M stack... < 1219178370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD: 'C'MZ did not reflect < 1219178373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it says GOOD < 1219178374 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then when GOOD: Unloading MODU did not reflect < 1219178384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, everything is GOOD up to that point < 1219178401 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this happens....the M that gets popped off will be the C semantic from ROMA,,,leaving the original M from MODU that was underneath it... < 1219178403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and you seem to terminate after every BAD) < 1219178409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1219178410 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do terminate after every bad... < 1219178435 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some tests rely on previous tests...and if they resulted in bad, you could get all kinds of false bads later... < 1219178443 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i thought it was just better to terminate... < 1219178480 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if deewiant wants to add the tests to mycology,,,then he can have them not terminate so that mycology could keep going.... < 1219178494 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for single tests as i have them,,,just seemed useful to stop them on an bad.... < 1219178570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(gdb) print *ip->fingerOpcodes['M'-'A']->entries[0] < 1219178571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$7 = {void (instructionPointer *)} 0x4168b6 < 1219178571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1219178573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does < 1219178622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, it does execute M from ROMA < 1219178628 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at what point??? < 1219178636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at "BAD: M does not have M semantics from MODU" < 1219178639 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD: A still has M semantics from MODU < 1219178648 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should not be executing ROMA at that point.... < 1219178651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no ROMA M on there < 1219178660 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before GOOD: Unloading MODU did not reflect < 1219178664 0 :asiekierka!n=asiekier@user-89-108-227-169.mobile.playmobile.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1219178665 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the semantic stack would look like: < 1219178667 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello < 1219178671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is ROMA C above the top of the stack < 1219178678 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1219178687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : GOOD: A still has M semantics from MODU <-- it seems like it does < 1219178696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, this is on the M stack? < 1219178700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the A stack? < 1219178703 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, MODU does not define A so it would not have been unloaded < 1219178724 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A stack should have on it.... < 1219178743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$12 = {void (instructionPointer *)} 0x415948 < 1219178747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is all on the A stack < 1219178768 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the test script there is this line: < 1219178771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, so clearly you missed to test something there which cfunge does the wrong way atm < 1219178790 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is???? < 1219178795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1219178802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but otherwise the stack wouldn't look like it does < 1219178808 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1219178833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is too
< 1219178839 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD: A has M semantics from MODU < 1219178845 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the only place anything is done with A,,,, < 1219178846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get that yes < 1219178855 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is after an instruction that pushes the MODU:M onto A.... < 1219178875 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after which ROMA:C is pushed on top of M.... < 1219178885 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A should still have MODU:M not ROMA:C.... < 1219178894 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what that test is about... < 1219178903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check < 1219178906 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then MODU is unloaded....so M would be popped...removing the ROMA:C < 1219178909 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://www.imaginaryrobots.net/projects/funge/myexts.txt !!!!! < 1219178913 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leaving the MODU:M that is below it < 1219178948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at "GOOD: A has M semantics from MODU" the stack is: FingerMODUsignedResult < 1219178951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing else on the stack < 1219178957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, is that correct? < 1219178965 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A should only have MODU:M on it....and nothing else.... < 1219178973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok so far, so good < 1219178977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's next? < 1219179004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where should I set the next break point for checking < 1219179010 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD: 'C'MZ did not reflect < 1219179026 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after this, M should be: < 1219179081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FingerROMApushM, FingerROMApushC is what the stacks look like after "GOOD: 'C'MZ did not reflect" has been printed < 1219179097 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are missing MODU:M < 1219179104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I see < 1219179105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1219179121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, when was that MODU:M pushed? < 1219179130 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when MODU is loaded < 1219179135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it is not the top item of the stack so it should have been pushed before? < 1219179139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhu < 1219179150 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have these lines before the test: < 1219179152 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1219179156 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD: MODU loaded < 1219179157 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD: c0Z did not reflect < 1219179157 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD: A has M semantics from MODU < 1219179157 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD: 'C'MZ did not reflect < 1219179157 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD: M has C semantics from ROMA < 1219179164 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when MODU is loaded you will get MODU:M < 1219179174 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the GOOD: 'C'MZ did not reflect < 1219179179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I get those lines < 1219179183 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will push the ROMA:C above the MODU:M < 1219179186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the MODU:M is missing < 1219179188 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does NOT replace it < 1219179210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, I know and since I use the same routine as when I normally pushes fingerprints I'm not sure what is wrong here < 1219179221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :push* < 1219179232 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without knowing your code,,,,i do not know....i just know what the stack should look like.... < 1219179238 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at GOOD: MODU loaded < 1219179241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes... < 1219179243 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does your stack for M look like? < 1219179246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a sec < 1219179275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean at 0,72? < 1219179286 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check where that is in the source < 1219179294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :line 73 in the source < 1219179302 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes 0,72 < 1219179327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FingerROMApushM, FingerMODUsignedResult < 1219179334 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far so good.... < 1219179337 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now after the next test??? < 1219179364 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is: GOOD: c0Z did not reflect < 1219179366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a sec < 1219179381 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at this point, A should have < 1219179390 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and M should have < 1219179400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FingerROMApushM only < 1219179403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on M < 1219179411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1219179411 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :than there is a problem in your Z code... < 1219179420 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is your Z moving it???? < 1219179428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my it seems so yes < 1219179430 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should push a copy onto A... < 1219179438 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and leave it on M as well... < 1219179445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1219179455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, maybe add a test to see that it copies not move < 1219179473 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can do that,,,,but your BAD: line you are getting confirmst that..... < 1219179481 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can add a test immediately after the copy.... < 1219179496 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just so that it does not show up bad later where it is harder to figure out what is wrong... < 1219179509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, yeah would make it easier to find the cause < 1219179517 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will add the test..... < 1219179549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah no errors any longer < 1219179550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1219179626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, and add the stuff about X pushing reflect in the docs for FING btw < 1219179634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1219179635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1219179641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Z pushing reflect < 1219179645 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :???? < 1219179694 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :refering to this test: GOOD: 18Z worked < 1219179699 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD: I now reflects < 1219179702 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :????? < 1219179705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1219179708 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok,,,, < 1219179719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, write better docs ;P < 1219179735 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never claimed to be good at documenation!!!! ehehehehehehehe < 1219179764 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need people like you to tell me what is missing or unclear!!! eheheheheeheh < 1219179831 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok,,,added the z pushing reflect....will find its way to my webpage eventually.... < 1219179844 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any other docs you want cleared up??? < 1219179916 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1219180050 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :new docs posted < 1219180120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, oh and that X pushes back the other semantic if the first one is NULL < 1219180125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fingerprintOpcode op1 = OpcodeStackPop(ip, first); < 1219180125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fingerprintOpcode op2 = OpcodeStackPop(ip, second); < 1219180127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (!op1 || !op2) { < 1219180127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : // Add them back < 1219180127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (op1) OpcodeStackAdd(ip, first, op1); < 1219180127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (op2) OpcodeStackAdd(ip, second, op2); < 1219180127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ipReverse(ip); < 1219180132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1219180133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that < 1219180154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't push back to begin with < 1219180160 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok,,, < 1219180175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, it cashed a lockup < 1219180192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD: 'IY did not reflect < 1219180195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then lockup < 1219180198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't push back < 1219180207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was confusing < 1219180233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, what happened was that it bounced between >I in the beginning of the next test < 1219180323 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok,,,will try to remove the confusion < 1219180339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, no one said writing tests in funge was easy ;P < 1219180345 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope...sure is not.... < 1219180359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote tests myself that I couldn't understand why the failed for quite some time < 1219180369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like my TURT test < 1219180395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could reason what should happen but had issues understanding why it didn't happen < 1219180401 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmm have some questions for deewiant about his new mycology.....get some bad's that never had before,,,and should not have now.... < 1219180417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, oh I had that too, in SUBR, JSTR and STRN < 1219180419 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah,,,,i had that happen to me on some of my test code... < 1219180430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he wants stuff to be relative storage offsets < 1219180435 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SUBR is broken now and ends up in an infinite loop... < 1219180440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, same here < 1219180455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before I made it relative storage offset < 1219180459 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y as pick now shows bad,,,,when it did not before.... < 1219180471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hey the author didn't do it relative either, didn't you say he wanted that?! < 1219180476 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of my code is relative storage offsets as well...but maybe missed something... < 1219180501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, well Deewiant thinks the jump in SUBR should be relative < 1219180501 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then there are these 2: < 1219180503 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAD: : on empty stack doesn't make stack size 2, says y < 1219180503 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAD: \ on empty stack doesn't make stack size 2, says y < 1219180507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1219180511 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which do not make any sense why they would be bad... < 1219180512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get that < 1219180526 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmi think the jump in SUBR should not be..... < 1219180542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, well \ pops a, then b, then pushes b then pushes a < 1219180550 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know.... < 1219180558 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so an empty stack will push back 2 zeros.... < 1219180560 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which mine does.... < 1219180561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: would pop a then push a twice < 1219180566 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do not understand why the test now fails... < 1219180569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had issues with : months ago < 1219180573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I tried to be smart < 1219180577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did a peek and then a push < 1219180584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of pop, push, push < 1219180586 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that has always worked for me,,,,until this latest version of mycology... < 1219180605 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine did pop push push,,,,or pop pop push push....whatever was needed... < 1219180607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, well I don't get those two BAD, I guess this means something messed up earlier? < 1219180625 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some bads above too: < 1219180626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that happened to be before < 1219180633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well fix those BAD first maybe? < 1219180635 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAD: 5kz takes more than 3 ticks < 1219180635 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAD: "a b" takes more than 5 ticks < 1219180637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes < 1219180639 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i know are both correct.... < 1219180649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, well yes and no, CCBI had a bug before < 1219180653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so mycology was buggy < 1219180654 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i printed cycle counts with my output,,, < 1219180661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it turned out cfunge was right in cycle count < 1219180666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1219180667 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they take the correct counts.. < 1219180669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tick count < 1219180674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, talk to Deewiant about it < 1219180679 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will have to do that.... < 1219180680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh he is sleeping < 1219180684 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure how he is testing that.... < 1219180686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :send him a mail then < 1219180688 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure his test is right... < 1219180702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, well since it is concurrent test following that code is extremely tricky < 1219180713 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it would be,,,, < 1219180722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I resorted to debugging CCBI and cfunge side by side to see when they stop doing the same thing < 1219180723 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so wonder how he is testing for tick counts... < 1219180735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, I think he writes with p using a second thread < 1219180746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if the first thread doesn't make it in time it gets redirected < 1219180752 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmm < 1219180799 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will have to ask him about it.....i wonder what he changed that now makes those two tests show bad when they used to be good < 1219180811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, check that if thread A is about to execute instruction at (1,2) after thread B just finished it's instruction and then B writes a ; to (1,2) < 1219180823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make sure A takes 0 ticks then as it should < 1219180840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was something like that iirc < 1219180850 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also need to straighten him out on the jump in SUBR < 1219180851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly I can't find it in scrollback, my computer crashed after that < 1219180860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which reminds me, I should run memtest tonight < 1219180861 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will check that in the debugger... < 1219180866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I suspect bad memory < 1219180886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, well in SUBR Deewiant think the jumps should be relative storage offset < 1219180893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if you agree < 1219180897 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me look at SUBR, hold on a sec... < 1219180909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, your docs leave that UNDEF < 1219180955 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well,,,,i will fix that for sure,,,the jump does not access funge-space and therefore the storage offset should not be applied to it... < 1219180967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, aha, well Deewiant was wrong then < 1219180969 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the jump vector comes off the stack and applied directly to the IPs position.... < 1219180993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right that was what I thought too < 1219181015 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will make that plain in the docs....but the storage offset does not apply to SUBR.... < 1219181015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so you were wrong about SUBR then < 1219181019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reverts that change
< 1219181087 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uploading new documenation for this < 1219181097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way I prefer fingerprints that only touches stack, they are much easier to debug < 1219181104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like FPDP and such < 1219181106 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true,,,, < 1219181117 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes not possible to do that with some fingerprints tho < 1219181120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1219181127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still, a lot easier < 1219181131 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true.... < 1219181138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, oh btw SOCK can't do non-blocking sockets can it? < 1219181153 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope...i think that is why somebody came up with SCKE < 1219181167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about blocking socket that only blocks the current IP? < 1219181172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie, let the other ones run on < 1219181194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does it block all IPs? < 1219181218 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will block all IPs actually....could mandate it one way or the other.... < 1219181242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well say that it should block all I think < 1219181245 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :manual updated for the SUBR vectors... < 1219181250 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can do.... < 1219181274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, but I may make a variant that allows blocking just one IP (somewhat like SCKE) < 1219181285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1219181292 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am thinking of making that change to mine too actually... < 1219181294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see uses for both behaviours < 1219181298 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that and in the sysV ipc ones as well... < 1219181315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well changing existing fingerprints are a bad idea < 1219181318 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ipc ones have an option for blocking or not... < 1219181326 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree,,,, < 1219181326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you are the only one to implement ipc < 1219181338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the SOCK several other ppl implement < 1219181339 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the only one to implement many of my fingerprints!! eheheheheeheh < 1219181344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, agreed < 1219181366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, you don't do SGNL? < 1219181375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or NCRS? < 1219181376 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many of my fingerprints were the results of boredome and what else could I add to Rc/Funge-98....many of them i am surprised other people implmented... < 1219181391 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might add SGNL,,,,and probably NRCS as well... < 1219181394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well a few are certainly useful < 1219181399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like FPDP and FPSP < 1219181407 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some are useful.....some are more curiosities... < 1219181422 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me FNGR is the most usefull of all...but others disagree with me on it.... < 1219181424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I would probably have made FLOT or something with double precision only < 1219181427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I had done it myself < 1219181437 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had a reason at the time for the 2 different ones.... < 1219181449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FNGR I won't implement, FING I just implemented < 1219181456 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FPSP came first,,,and was written to operate in the 32-bit cells that i was using... < 1219181469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LONG I will implement once I figure out how to do arithmetics on 128-bit integers < 1219181477 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FNGR is nasty to implement,,,i had to change a lot in my interpreter when i implemented that one... < 1219181482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as cfunge offers 64-bit cells as an option < 1219181491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, but TRDS is worse I bet < 1219181498 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not too hard to do 128-bit integers... < 1219181511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, well I got no idea how you handle carry and such < 1219181514 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TRDS is really a pain!!!! mine still does not work 100% right.... < 1219181533 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure deewiant's does either....his works for his test...but some things that his test fails mine work correctly on my tests... < 1219181549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1219181556 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :carry can be handled by comparing magnitude of the result to what you started with... < 1219181558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah, TRDS is messy < 1219181571 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes,,,it is very messy,,,and too many unknowns about it.... < 1219181574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, hm got any good source to read up on more about that? < 1219181585 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never expected anybody to actually implement it!!!! eheheheheheheeheh < 1219181609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course if I wanted to use GCC only I could just use __int128_t but well I want to be portable < 1219181619 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i can find it,,,,and if you can read 1802 assembly language, i have a long integer math program somewhere that uses the technique... < 1219181628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1802? < 1219181633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that < 1219181638 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah,,,,early cpu...made by rca... < 1219181650 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to know more about it, go to my main website: www.elf-emulation.com < 1219181653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I can hardly read any asm except PIC12F62x < 1219181664 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did an awful lot of work with the 1802 once upon a time... < 1219181695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, what is need is a high level C way of doing LONG < 1219181720 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree,,,,one of these days i will convert my assembly code for doing it into c.... < 1219181723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, does rc/funge implement 64-bit cells? < 1219181730 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no,,,it uses 32-bit cells... < 1219181733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1219181738 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a bignum fingerprint < 1219181744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, not that I know of < 1219181745 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no....thought about adding one.... < 1219181762 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1219181763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however if you just want Befunge-93 I got a BIGNUM Befunge-93 interpreter coded in erlang < 1219181775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather slow though < 1219181780 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but been busy on the Rc/Funge-98 restructuring to make any new fingerprints right now... < 1219181784 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps even a fingerprint that changed all cells to bignums? :D < 1219181800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, would be hard to implement in C < 1219181813 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i doubt it < 1219181817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bzr.kuonet.org/efunge/trunk/files < 1219181835 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd just have to reallocate everything when it's done < 1219181850 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :into arrays of bignums < 1219181855 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatevery you use for fungespace < 1219181859 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*whatever < 1219181868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, err... you need a hash map for fungespace < 1219181875 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err... no you don't < 1219181882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in 98 you do < 1219181886 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you don't. < 1219181893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you have 2^32 * 2^32 cells < 1219181911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even more < 1219181911 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i assumed it has infinite cells < 1219181918 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even so, you don't need a hashmap < 1219181919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, err depends on cell size < 1219181928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have a 64-bit funge < 1219181934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would have 2^64 * 2^64 cells < 1219181948 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's actually specified? < 1219181971 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do not need a hash map...i do not use one... < 1219181976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, same reason that C have a limited adress space, the result of sizeof() must be finite < 1219181989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you need something like a hash map < 1219181997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no way you can use a statically allocated array < 1219182006 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use a dynamic array of a form... < 1219182006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could use some tree structure or something < 1219182016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, with an index right? < 1219182021 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with binary searches on the dynamic array.. < 1219182028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhu < 1219182041 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are two arrays,,,,one containing rows....and then each of those contain an array of cells... < 1219182069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually use a hash with {x,y} as key and the cell as data < 1219182074 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are sorted so that retrieval just uses a binary search on the arrays... < 1219182077 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite fast... < 1219182093 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycology executes in about .2 seconds... < 1219182099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, so what would happen if I wrote to 2^31-1, 2^31-1 < 1219182110 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would add 1 cell....1 row.... < 1219182125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1219182134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, aren't there cases where it is slow? < 1219182139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say insert in some cases < 1219182141 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that i have seen so far... < 1219182142 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1219182146 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inserts are not too bad.... < 1219182147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1219182157 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you insert something @ n, then start filling from n to 0 < 1219182158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, what if you need to reallocate? < 1219182160 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if you have 100,000s of rows are cells it could be... < 1219182168 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for more standard size programs,,,quite fast... < 1219182170 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to copy everything each time you write < 1219182186 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you just need to copy an array of array pointers < 1219182193 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so shouldn't be that slow < 1219182200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, well say you write to x=MAX_INT,y=10, then to x=MIN_INT,y=10 < 1219182201 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope,,,,not too slow at all actually... < 1219182209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :opposite ends of same row < 1219182214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one in negative x funge space < 1219182221 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: would add two columns < 1219182231 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only thing that matters is the number of cells that contain non-32 values... < 1219182237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um he did it on row basis he said? < 1219182249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, hm ok < 1219182255 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have a row with something at -2^31 and another at +2^31 and there are only 2 cells created... < 1219182270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, well what if you start inserting from the ends < 1219182279 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no problem for it.... < 1219182289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie writing one just below the max then one just above the min and so on < 1219182298 0 :MeTh0Dz!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1219182300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would need to move items up/down right? < 1219182307 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1219182308 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you end up with huge numbers of cells it might have an impact...but for something the size of mycology, no big deal... < 1219182324 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it would resort the row.... < 1219182353 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :resort? you insert, then sort it with like sort()? < 1219182357 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i do not currently use memmoves,,,but using them instead of what i do whould be quite fast... < 1219182363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for (int i=MAX_INT; i > 0; i--) do put(i, 10, 'a'); < 1219182364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say < 1219182374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you see what I mean < 1219182378 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's faster to do it incrementally < 1219182385 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree,,,,with larger numbers of cells it would be slower... < 1219182392 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only to insert....not retrieve... < 1219182397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, hm... < 1219182420 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :retrieval is on a binary search algorithm,,,so for a row 256 cells long,,,only 8 cells need to be examined... < 1219182438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1219182472 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each row hols the z and y of the row,,,each cell holds the x.... < 1219182474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, I'm quite sure it is possible to write some program for which that gives very bad performance < 1219182482 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am sure it is possible.... < 1219182500 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think for the average funge program,,,it should operate just fine... < 1219182507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while a hash map is worse on average but will perform much better in such a case < 1219182514 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1219182545 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :question is,,,,performance for the average??? or perfomance for the unusual??? < 1219182553 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a design decision.... < 1219182575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, have you fuzz tested rc/funge? < 1219182580 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no.... < 1219182581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to check that it doesn't crash on stuff < 1219182584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I have for cfunge < 1219182600 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am sure it will crash quite hard for unusual cases!!! eheheheheeheheh < 1219182614 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should try it tho....just for grins.... < 1219182620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, well, fuzz testing helped me find crash on: 2k@ < 1219182621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example < 1219182625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 2kt < 1219182629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also had such issues < 1219182643 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2k@ would not cause mine any problems... < 1219182646 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2kt,,,,do not know.... < 1219182667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs the fuzzer on FING now
< 1219182676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, I wrote a shell script to fuzz test < 1219182676 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as my interpreter is concenred,,,you can only kill the IP once.... < 1219182688 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : no matter how many @'s you execute on it... < 1219182716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all that is needed is info about what instructions each fingerprint implements (currently extracted from cfunge header files) and that the main() in the interpreter set an alarm() to kill itself off after 3 seconds < 1219182722 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2kt might do interesting things tho!!!! < 1219182723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha a crash < 1219182729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge: /home/arvid/src/cfunge/trunk/src/stack.c:115: StackPushNoCheck: Assertion `stack->top < stack->size' failed. < 1219182732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blergh < 1219182910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it happened after several y < 1219182917 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmm < 1219182928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and multiple threads < 1219183557 0 :dogface_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suddenly wonder if you're doing a Core Wars-like thing. < 1219183625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dogface_, eh? < 1219183654 0 :dogface_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ killing the IP and all. < 1219183751 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmsounds fun.....core wars for befunge!!! < 1219183846 0 :dogface_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My gosh, I just realized something. < 1219183934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1219183937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stack size 2? < 1219183941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should never happen < 1219183974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1: *stack = {size = 2, top = 1, entries = 0x22dce60} < 1219183980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should not be possible in cfunge < 1219183997 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how did it then?? < 1219184001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because stack is allocated with size 4096, and I never shrink it < 1219184009 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dogface_: what did you realize? < 1219184010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, trying to find that out < 1219184038 0 :dogface_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I kind of realized it a while ago. < 1219184062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait actually it could I think with threads... maybe < 1219184073 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dogface_: okay, nothing then... < 1219184090 0 :dogface_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I realized that Thue, with its nondeterminism and "this is this" paradigm, is, by some measures, more appropriate for artificial intelligence than languages like Prolog. < 1219184104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doh < 1219184108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< instead of > < 1219184123 0 :dogface_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I realized longer ago is that a strongly-typed Thue on graphs is... pretty nice. < 1219184234 0 :dogface_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coming up with a type system for such a thing as graph Thue is left as an exercise for the reader. Hint: use the same type system as natural languages do, maybe. < 1219184285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know thue < 1219184335 0 :dogface_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conócelo ahora mismo. < 1219184387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night all < 1219184396 0 :dogface_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1219184398 0 :dogface_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good night. < 1219184528 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1219184612 0 :dogface_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, typing system. It's a tree, not an arbitrary graph. There are finitely many types (gasp). Some atoms are nullary and have types, other atoms are unary and have an input type and an output type. There is a single binary atom, which takes any two values and has the type of the first. < 1219184650 0 :dogface_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The type of the entire thing must be :o < 1219184670 0 :dogface_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or :<, in kaelis edition. < 1219184719 0 :dogface_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The type system was not completely arbitrary. :o was. < 1219184739 0 :dogface_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll call this language :o, even. Doesn't that sound fun? < 1219184931 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1219185147 0 :RedDak!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Killed (NickServ (Comando GHOST usato da DIO))" < 1219185167 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1219185605 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dogface_: very fun < 1219185624 0 :dogface_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay. < 1219186090 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-82-181.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1219186322 0 :dogface_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In my language, this sentence would be a valid expression if it didn't contain the following: "Blah." < 1219186393 0 :dogface_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All post-word punctuation (in the above, a comma, a colon, two quotation marks and a period) must have a space next to it. < 1219186599 0 :dogface_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which means that *that* sentence *is* a valid expression. These two are not, however, as * is not valid punctuation. < 1219187758 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1219188408 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dogface_: would this be valid: < 1219188412 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT ALL DOGS ARE DOGS! < 1219188427 0 :dogface_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is syntactically valid, yes. < 1219188458 0 :dogface_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most English sentences are. < 1219188481 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dogface_: what about < 1219188487 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOGS, DOGS I TELL YOU... DOGS!! < 1219188525 0 :dogface_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, because two of the periods and one of the exclamation points does not have a space on either side. < 1219188731 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dogface_: You said most english sentences were valid < 1219188761 0 :dogface_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did. < 1219188789 0 :dogface_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most English sentences do not have ellipses or double exclamation marks. < 1219189028 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=Nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-028-216.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1219189613 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving..." < 1219189619 0 :dogface_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suddenly feel I'm not up to writing a spec for :o. < 1219190213 0 :dogface_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have a Thue Artificial Intelligence Standard: The compiler/interpreter should favor removing the letter H over adding it, and it should prefer adding the letter W over removing it. It should be ambivalent about adding or removing one of each. < 1219190288 0 :dogface_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, say that the letter T is equivalent to the letter W for these purposes.