< 1219190897 0 :B|u35un!n=bs@dslb-084-056-028-013.pools.arcor-ip.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1219190926 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TUSHO < 1219191060 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1219192065 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1219192762 0 :B|u35un!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1219192895 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | err yeah < 1219193160 0 :LinuS!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Puzzi. S, parlo proprio con te. Puzzi." < 1219193185 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Verlassend" < 1219193297 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERR YEAH!! < 1219193720 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"xchat update" < 1219193847 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-44-52.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1219195328 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1219198367 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey oklopol < 1219199263 0 :psygnisf_!n=psygnisf@c-71-57-164-119.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1219199263 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1219207286 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1219207286 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1219207286 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1219207289 0 :Quendus!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1219207289 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1219207299 0 :fizzie!n=fis@sesefras.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1219207331 0 :fungot!n=fungot@qeq4.kyla.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1219207331 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r01jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1219207331 0 :cmeme!n=cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1219207331 0 :Quendus!n=Quendion@145.175.adsl.brightview.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1219212330 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1219213209 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1219214495 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | check the msg board < 1219214916 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1219214966 0 :asiekierka!n=asiekier@user-89-108-230-125.mobile.playmobile.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1219215030 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1219215142 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey < 1219218849 0 :Slereah_!n=x@ANantes-252-1-20-178.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1219219199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1219219200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1219219634 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.cust.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1219219669 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1219219903 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1219219965 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1219219983 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1219220378 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Postfix wiki "Statistics" page: "There are 1,413 total pages in the database. This includes "talk" pages, pages about postfix, minimal "stub" pages, redirects, and others that probably don't qualify as content pages. Excluding those, there are 4 pages that are probably legitimate content pages." < 1219220420 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure which one is funnier: the fact that there are only 4 (out of 1413) pages of content, or that "pages about postfix" don't count as legitimate content on the Postfix wiki. < 1219221872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hahaha < 1219221910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well blame mediawiki < 1219223974 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1219224408 0 :Slereah!n=x@ANantes-252-1-20-178.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1219224408 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1219224834 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1219225250 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-028-216.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1219226290 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1219226305 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r01jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1219230019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)" < 1219230380 0 :MikeRiley!n=mike@12.192.179.31 JOIN :#esoteric < 1219230390 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you about deewiant??? < 1219230558 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Jesus loves you" < 1219230879 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :" " < 1219230956 0 :tusho!n=tusho@91.105.80.203 JOIN :#esoteric < 1219231856 0 :LinuS!n=LinuS@net-93-146-228-79.t2.dsl.vodafone.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1219232662 0 :MikeRiley!n=mike@12.192.179.31 JOIN :#esoteric < 1219232698 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you about Deewiant??? < 1219232846 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: he's marked as away < 1219232848 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no < 1219232858 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, thanks < 1219234455 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :" " < 1219234847 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I missed him by 5 minutes both time < 1219234858 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+s < 1219234885 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Them fates, they are against your union. < 1219234886 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :next time, tell him to just state his business :-P < 1219234902 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC is asynchronous, that's the beauty of it < 1219235138 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-080-228-184-067.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1219236096 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | better yet < 1219236226 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1219236281 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: int a = 1; < 1219236281 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KingOfKarlsruhe: in Python you'd just use nested lists... < 1219236302 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: a = True < 1219236302 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KingOfKarlsruhe: Frankenstein is the doctor. < 1219236336 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: a is Frankenstein ? < 1219236336 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KingOfKarlsruhe: say, HRTI < 1219236358 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot is False < 1219236358 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KingOfKarlsruhe: heh < 1219236365 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot is None < 1219236365 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KingOfKarlsruhe:
  • < 1219236411 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: maybe, for that conversator, you could do something different than a markov chain, just use entire sentences like that, but try to keep context by remembering what words have been used in the sentences < 1219236437 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use sentences with those words more probably than others < 1219236439 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no < 1219236441 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is perfect as it is < 1219236450 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember, it has operating hours < 1219236451 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: < 1219236452 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KingOfKarlsruhe: I can't be agnostic because I actively disbelieve in divinity and the supernatural. < 1219236460 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :operating hours? < 1219236491 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: return False < 1219236491 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KingOfKarlsruhe: "works fine" means "without issues" to me :-) < 1219236633 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it is only coherent in its operating hours < 1219236843 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are operating hours. < 1219236899 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1219236910 0 :Slereah_!n=x@ANantes-252-1-20-178.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1219236921 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot! < 1219236921 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | Name That Language! < 1219237004 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot; Are you the perfect bot? < 1219237004 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: MILLIONS OF WAYS TO MODIFY IT! < 1219237061 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: We are perfect and you not ! < 1219237061 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KingOfKarlsruhe: Assuming you're outputting to a file and simply playing that file raw? < 1219237115 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: sv_cheats 1 < 1219237115 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KingOfKarlsruhe: Swell. < 1219237170 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: exec(sys.exit()) < 1219237170 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KingOfKarlsruhe: hehe < 1219237186 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: eval(sys.exit()) < 1219237187 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KingOfKarlsruhe: that's right < 1219237205 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: "import sys; sys.exit()" < 1219237206 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KingOfKarlsruhe: and put it on the web so we can compare < 1219237211 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: no, that's wrong < 1219237212 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: no < 1219237214 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: no < 1219237215 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: very good < 1219237218 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: yes < 1219237218 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: do you think i should skip tomorrow's lecture? :) < 1219237220 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: yes < 1219237221 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: or something < 1219237223 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: yes < 1219237223 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: yes < 1219237283 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!optbot < 1219237284 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KingOfKarlsruhe: Haskell is OO in senses 1, 2, 4, 5, 6, 7. But its form of 7 blows < 1219237298 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!optbot?!?!?!?! < 1219237298 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KingOfKarlsruhe: free legal music by independant artists :D] < 1219237359 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: why the fuck are you yessing and noing now, when just a few days ago you wouldn't give me a boolean no matter how many times i asked < 1219237360 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: That was a red herring? < 1219237385 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: err sure < 1219237385 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: hihi < 1219237395 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: fuck you < 1219237396 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: The concept behind it, eh? < 1219237402 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: exactly < 1219237403 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: that's 10 years internet time :) < 1219237419 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: exec(raise StandardError) < 1219237419 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KingOfKarlsruhe: oklopol is female? or are we talking manboobs? < 1219237425 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-61-233.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1219237451 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[12:54:04] what are operating hours. < 1219237458 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hours in which it is coherent < 1219237460 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are secret, sorry. < 1219237472 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see, i see. < 1219237506 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optvot; Pssst, what are your secret operating hours? < 1219237512 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot^ < 1219237512 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: :) < 1219237534 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot; Are you mocking my typing skills! < 1219237535 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: (and to note; i have been away from 4th till today 18:45 when i arrived on this channel today) < 1219237552 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently now is not part of the operating hours. < 1219237561 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: what are your public operating hours < 1219237562 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: :p < 1219237569 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, evidently not. < 1219237710 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf < 1219237710 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++[->+>++>+++<<<]>>>------.+.++++.------------------.+++++++++++++.+++++.----------------------------------------------------------.--------------------------.++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.-----.------.++++++++.-------------------------------------------.<+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.>++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+ < 1219237710 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+++.-----------.-------.+++++++++++++.+++++. < 1219237862 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^code 0a->:# 0# \# 0# \# p# 1# -# _ ;(just preparing space for the ^str functionality, hope I don't break fungot with this); < 1219237863 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P~.v~vA < 1219237872 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that wasn't supposed to happen. < 1219237902 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I forgot a : before the if, and the corresponding $ after it. < 1219237914 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer) < 1219237922 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, might as well get it initialized properly. < 1219237951 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: say "hello" < 1219237951 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KingOfKarlsruhe: Fugue source works a lot better in MIDI because that makes it a lot easier for a computer to figure out the intervals < 1219237971 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: help < 1219237971 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KingOfKarlsruhe: that's definitely subjective < 1219237983 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: confirm < 1219237983 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KingOfKarlsruhe: Interesting. < 1219238171 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: CPU: AMD Athlon 64 X2 Dual Core 4200+ at 2850 MHz < 1219238171 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KingOfKarlsruhe: final bad id C in SOCK...for some reason on my system it is not connecting... < 1219238299 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1219238351 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: [ 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5, 5 ] < 1219238351 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KingOfKarlsruhe: that'd be a challenge. < 1219239266 0 :fungot!n=fungot@qeq4.kyla.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1219239272 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^str 0 set foo < 1219239272 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Set: foo < 1219239277 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^str 0 add bar < 1219239278 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Added. < 1219239280 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^str 0 get < 1219239281 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foobar < 1219239285 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^str 0 something else < 1219239286 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usage: ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text] < 1219239330 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are ten strings there for program input. Next I need to make ^def to accept "str:0" type arguments referring to those strings, then you can again insert longer programs. < 1219239513 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I should probably also check < 1219239518 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^str 9 get < 1219239524 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1219239553 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::orwell.freenode.net 412 fungot :No text to send < 1219239577 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it tried to send an empty line without even the PRIVMSG prefix. That wasn't supposed to happen. < 1219239609 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1219239719 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or does an empty message also generate that error? Maybe it does. < 1219239786 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1219239856 0 :Defe!n=harbl@k67.ip5.netikka.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1219239952 0 :fungot!n=fungot@qeq4.kyla.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1219239958 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^str 9 get < 1219239958 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Empty. < 1219239994 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you can't now distinguish between "" and "Empty.", but maybe that isn't an issue. < 1219240003 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^help < 1219240003 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf < 1219240240 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^reload < 1219240241 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reloaded. < 1219240244 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^help < 1219240245 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text] < 1219240287 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^str 0 set ++++++++++ < 1219240288 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Set: ++++++++++ < 1219240292 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^str 0 add ++++++++++ < 1219240292 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Added. < 1219240295 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^str 0 add ++++++++++ < 1219240295 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Added. < 1219240297 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^str 0 add ++++++++++ < 1219240297 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Added. < 1219240297 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^str 0 add ++++++++++ < 1219240298 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^str 0 add ++++++++++ < 1219240298 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Added. < 1219240298 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^str 0 add ++++++++++ < 1219240298 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Added. < 1219240298 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^str 0 add ++++++++++ < 1219240298 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Added. < 1219240298 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^str 0 add ++++++++++ < 1219240299 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Added. < 1219240299 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Added. < 1219240300 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^str 0 add ++++++++++ < 1219240300 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Added. < 1219240314 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^def arjiu bf str:0 < 1219240314 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Defined. < 1219240321 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph. < 1219240326 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^str 0 add . < 1219240327 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Added. < 1219240329 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^def arjiu bf str:0 < 1219240329 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Defined. < 1219240333 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^arjiu ds < 1219240379 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show arjiu < 1219240388 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't have that thing yet. < 1219240403 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^def arjiu bf str:0... < 1219240404 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Defined. < 1219240405 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show arjiu < 1219240406 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1219240414 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just picks those bf characters in there. < 1219240426 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's next on the to-implement list. < 1219240456 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +++[->++.<] < 1219240456 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1219240481 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And <32 characters are still filtered to dots. < 1219240489 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++[->++.<] < 1219240489 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :............... "$&(*,.02468:<>@BDFHJLNPRTVXZ\^ < 1219240520 0 :Slereah!n=x@ANantes-252-1-20-178.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1219240547 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +[+[.]] < 1219240547 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :............................................................................................................................................................................................................... ... < 1219240566 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +[++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++[.]] < 1219240566 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 ... < 1219240607 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +[++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++[.+]] < 1219240607 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~ < 1219240706 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++[.] < 1219240706 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 < 1219240712 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++[+.] < 1219240712 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~ < 1219240781 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is on #esoteric-blah too if you feel like printing more of those character sets. < 1219240781 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +[+>++>+++>++++>++++++>+++++++<.<.<.<.<.] < 1219240782 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.........................$....*....0 ...6$...<(...B,!..H0$..N4'..T8*..Z<-..`@0 .fD3".lH6$.rL9&.xP<(.~T?*.XB,.\E..`H0.dK2.hN4.lQ6.pT8.tW:.xZ<.|]> `@!ƄcB"̈fD#ҌiF$ؐlH%ޔoJ&rL'uN(xP){R* < 1219240801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ^str 9 get <-- huh? < 1219240810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what language is str? < 1219240825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf [[ < 1219240826 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mismatched []. < 1219240832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf < < 1219240835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf . < 1219240836 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1219240838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf <. < 1219240839 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1219240841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1219240848 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a language, it's just a command. There are 10 strings that can be manipulated with ^str X get/set/add. < 1219240853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, does it wrap the tape? < 1219240864 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's a 1000-cell tape that wraps. < 1219240866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also why just 10 tapes? < 1219240868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1219240872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 strings < 1219240910 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 should be enough for everyone. :p < 1219240936 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to use the whole of negative fungespace for strings of potentially unlimited length. Now it takes only rows from -10 to -1. < 1219240958 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's really just for inputting longer-than-500-chars programs. < 1219240973 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, will be, as soon as I get ^def ... str:X working. < 1219240976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, there? < 1219240994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, did you see what Mike said about that SUBR should *not* be relative the storage offset < 1219241001 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^str 0 get < 1219241002 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++. < 1219241050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, where is the source for the bot now again? < 1219241151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++. < 1219241152 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d < 1219241174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show < 1219241174 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arjiu < 1219241177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err? < 1219241180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that mean < 1219241180 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster; http://zem.fi/~fis/fungot.b98.txt although it's not runnable as-is, it needs a loader. < 1219241188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, link to loader then? < 1219241198 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what 'arjiu' means, oklopol defined it. < 1219241212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ < 1219241218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^bf . < 1219241221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf . < 1219241222 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1219241226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm didn't break it < 1219241271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, befunge is like basic with goto only, only the original author can really maintain any non-trivial programs written in those languages < 1219241275 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zem.fi/~fis/fungot-load-freenode.b98.txt is what I use to load the freenode instance. < 1219241288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is beyond hello world < 1219241292 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there are comments in fungot. < 1219241314 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they won't help much, though. :p < 1219241375 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, the basic structure is pretty simple. There are all those ^commands chained on the downward-going route at column 4, and after those columns 5 and 6 are used to call the brainfuck bytecode compiler and interpreter, and columns 79/80 are used for returning from there. < 1219241395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so it depends on i < 1219241409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should check if that is available using y in the loader :) < 1219241420 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1219241431 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1219241449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, because for example cfunge got a "safe mode" that disables io= and some fingerprints < 1219241454 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's not available, it probably fails with the (misleading) "missing source" error message since i presumably reflects then. I don't think that's too bad. < 1219241466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed it will reflect < 1219241478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but portable funge is important! ;) < 1219241531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just kidding < 1219241610 0 :Slereah_!n=x@ANantes-252-1-20-178.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1219242733 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^reload < 1219242734 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reloaded. < 1219242742 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^str 0 set ,[.,] < 1219242742 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Set: ,[.,] < 1219242749 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^def echo bf str:0 < 1219242749 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Defined. < 1219242752 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show echo < 1219242752 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :,[.,] < 1219242756 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo Yay. < 1219242756 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay. < 1219242774 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I need to add something to the help about it. < 1219242989 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^reload < 1219242990 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reloaded. < 1219242990 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^help < 1219242991 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text] < 1219243057 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^str 0 set >,[>,]<[<]>[.>] < 1219243058 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Set: >,[>,]<[<]>[.>] < 1219243091 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^str 0 add <[<]++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++>[.>] < 1219243092 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Added. < 1219243095 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^str 0 get < 1219243096 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>,[>,]<[<]>[.>]<[<]++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++>[.>] < 1219243101 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^def echo bf str:0 < 1219243102 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Defined. < 1219243105 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show echo < 1219243106 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>1,[>1,]>999[>999]>1[.>1]>999[>999]+32>1[.>1] < 1219243112 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo Did I mess it up this time? < 1219243113 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I mess it up this time?Did I mess it up this time? < 1219243181 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I forgot the . after +32 so that there would be the space. < 1219243490 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@k-90.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1219244052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ^def echo bf str:0 < 1219244053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1219244064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :str:0 isn't brainfuck < 1219244088 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, a str:0 code URL means it uses the string 0. < 1219244091 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^str 0 get < 1219244091 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>,[>,]<[<]>[.>]<[<]++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++>[.>] < 1219244118 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much like a http:// will in the far future mean it fetches a document via HTTP. < 1219244138 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^help < 1219244138 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text] < 1219244162 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See; the part can be either plaintext, or a str:N URL. < 1219244312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf http://kernel.org/pub/linux/kernel/v2.6/linux-2.6.26.2.tar.bz2 < 1219244313 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1219244314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1219244327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you want to be careful with that < 1219244336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or someone could make you download an entire ISO < 1219244352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say live dvd for Knoppix < 1219244373 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I'll add URL-handling to plain ^bf, only to ^def. It's (currently) a bit easier in there. Although I guess it could be in the program-preparation call path, too, so that it would work in both. < 1219244379 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I can move it there later. < 1219244390 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, some sort of length limitation could be a good idea there too. < 1219244418 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want a funge-space 4 billion cells wide, anyway. < 1219244434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and you don't want to try to check lostkingdom for matching [] :P < 1219244456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, err depends on implementation < 1219244482 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf [ < 1219244483 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mismatched []. < 1219244492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, cfunge uses n-bit cells and n-bit vectors, where n is defined at compile time to either 32 or 64 < 1219244579 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have enough memory for cells, no matter what the implementation. < 1219244606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it would be something like 4 GB < 1219244616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and I only have 1.5 GB RAM myself < 1219244622 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4.7 billion bytes for a plain single-layer disc, but they come in larger sizes too. < 1219244628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway at least cfunge would have some overhead there < 1219244634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it uses a hash table < 1219244647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets see what overhead would be < 1219244695 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^def x http://ftp.uni-kl.de/pub/linux/knoppix/KNOPPIX_V5.1.0CD-2006-12-30-DE.iso < 1219244696 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usage: ^def < 1219244698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assume 32-bit cells for now, then... 4 bytes for cell value, 8 bytes for the x/y of said cell, in other words 12 bytes / cell, now I don't know the details of the hash library but that adds some more overehad < 1219244699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :head* < 1219244701 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^def x bf http://ftp.uni-kl.de/pub/linux/knoppix/KNOPPIX_V5.1.0CD-2006-12-30-DE.iso < 1219244702 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Defined. < 1219244706 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^def x bf s:http://ftp.uni-kl.de/pub/linux/knoppix/KNOPPIX_V5.1.0CD-2006-12-30-DE.iso < 1219244707 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Defined. < 1219244717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho it doesn't work yet < 1219244722 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1219244759 0 :Slereah!n=x@ANantes-252-1-20-178.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1219244767 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1219244772 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't get too excited by the coming reload, it won't be HTTP urls yet. < 1219244774 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^reload < 1219244774 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reloaded. < 1219244787 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just fixed some error handling in there. < 1219244798 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^def x bf str:? < 1219244799 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bad str: URL. < 1219244880 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: Do you want to write me a HTTP client in Funge-98? < 1219244881 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Woo. < 1219244909 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: ...uh, was that a yes or a no? < 1219244909 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: the regexp + # thing < 1219245180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be REXP? < 1219245185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever that fingerprint is called < 1219245193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot, say no < 1219245193 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: whats everyone think about Visual Studio? < 1219245214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot, oh is this Jeopardy? < 1219245214 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's exactly what i can't figure out, is there an implementation :P < 1219245220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1219245395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot, Implementation of what? < 1219245395 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: mmm. Python looks cool. Maybe I'll use that for my next esolang < 1219245505 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1219245565 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot; A Python implementation? A Jeopardy implementation? < 1219245565 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: maybe deliberate < 1219245581 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot; Have you seen many accidental implementations, then? < 1219245582 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ==2559== malloc/free: 1 allocs, 1 frees, 65,536 bytes allocated. < 1219245608 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot; Sounds like valgrind. < 1219245608 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: s/ke/key < 1219245632 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot; Huh? "Sounds likey valgrind"? < 1219245632 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: but yes, open to them < 1219245649 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NURR so confused NURR. < 1219245750 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1219246361 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.cust.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1219246426 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh... I guess I will need SCKE for the http:// URLs, since SOCK doesn't have hostname lookup services. < 1219246558 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite < 1219247315 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1219247359 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1219248478 0 :MikeRiley!n=rileym@las-static-208.57.195.80.mpowercom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1219248525 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you about Deewiant??? < 1219248608 0 :Hiato!n=Hiato@dsl-245-8-129.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1219248757 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: "you about Deewiant" means absolutely nothing < 1219248770 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but do state your businesses < 1219248792 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need to talk with him about a few things... < 1219248852 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: the nice thing about IRC is that even if I'm not about, you can say what you like and I can see it later :-) < 1219248867 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true,,,,but wanted dialog..... < 1219248869 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially here, where everything is publically logged < 1219248877 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :starting with SUBR.... < 1219248898 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, so I gather you and AnMaster agree that it should be absolute < 1219248909 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the vectors used by the jumps are not accesses to funge-space, they should not have the storage offset applied to them... < 1219248925 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for SUBR they should be absolute,,,since no funge-space access... < 1219248935 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INDV on the other hand,, should be relative all the way through... < 1219248948 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they are vectors pointing to funge-space < 1219248960 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no,,,they are vectors that change the position/delta of the ip.... < 1219248974 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are moving the ip...not access funge-space' < 1219248976 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly, position < 1219248986 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means that the vector points to a location in funge-space < 1219249006 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus...if you have subroutines you are trying to use....they are not going to move if you use { and now the vectors will not work for them anymore... < 1219249017 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not ACCESSING funge-space... < 1219249031 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing about { is that it makes for maintainable code < 1219249046 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider 12J < 1219249052 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but SUBR addresses become meaningless with { if they are relative... < 1219249084 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :J might make sense,,,,but the call and return do not... < 1219249094 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the relative solution is more robust: if you need to call an external subroutine from within a {, write a helper subroutine which uses u to un-apply the storage offset < 1219249113 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with absolute, there's just no way to handle all cases easily < 1219249133 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in such a way that moving the code around in the file doesn't affect it's functionality < 1219249137 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/it's/its/ < 1219249151 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case, might be better to modify the fingerprint and add a new function to select relative or absolute addressing... < 1219249165 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1219249179 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my use of SUBR requires absolute,,,at least for C and R,,,,do not use J much... < 1219249203 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, something that flips a per-IP flag would work < 1219249205 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1219249209 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that makes it feral < 1219249213 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that it matters < 1219249227 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really....matters i mean.... < 1219249232 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still easy to implement,,, < 1219249247 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the whole feral/tame distinction is a bit pointless anyway :-P < 1219249253 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree.... < 1219249268 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, I'd be happy with a flag < 1219249290 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok,,,then will modify the fingerprint to allow for both,,,, < 1219249305 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright < 1219249309 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :next..... < 1219249322 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have these working again: < 1219249323 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD: 5kz takes 3 ticks < 1219249324 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD: "a b" takes 5 ticks < 1219249333 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the problem in your case < 1219249335 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same as CCBI? < 1219249336 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in doing so have discovered that one of the mycology tests is fault... < 1219249347 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my case the ;block;s were taking a tick... < 1219249360 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means this one: < 1219249361 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD: jumping over code with ; takes 0 ticks < 1219249366 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-/ < 1219249374 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has always been good....should have been bad before i fixed the ;blocks;... < 1219249413 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was hard to find the problem,,,,if that test would have shown bad,,,would have been able to find it much quicker... < 1219249419 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the code there looks a bit strange < 1219249426 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lessee < 1219249463 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once i started single stepping through the test with debugger,,,that is when i discovered the problem with the ; blocks... < 1219249472 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once i fixed that,,,the other 2 tests showed good again... < 1219249557 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, there seems indeed to be a bug there, wonder why < 1219249611 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was going to step through that test...but ended with an interuption and could not get back to it... < 1219249611 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, easy to fix < 1219249635 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must have messed with something else that caused a de-synch < 1219249643 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, just replaced some space with a v < 1219249662 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok,,,, < 1219249666 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two new SUBR commands: < 1219249673 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A ( -- ) Set absolute addressing mode < 1219249678 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O ( -- ) Set offset (relative) mode < 1219249681 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically the one at (131,154) if you're interested < 1219249685 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :default mode when SUBR loads is absolute... < 1219249698 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok,,,,thanks.. < 1219249833 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: remember to document that the mode is per-IP :-) < 1219249841 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, btw, question < 1219249878 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: how does FRTH interact with invert mode? < 1219249893 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe queue mode as well, I forget exactly what they do < 1219249932 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway, should they always push on top of the stack (since that's the wording in the FORTH ANSI standard) or should they pop and push according to the modes < 1219249933 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will do that... < 1219249956 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FRTH should work ok in invert mode....i think...in my implementation it uses the standard Pop and Push routines.... < 1219249975 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should push and pop according to the modes... < 1219249995 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay thanks, and I'd like you to document that as well :-) < 1219250060 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing so now.... < 1219250098 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any other documentation changes you would like?? < 1219250112 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably yes, but can't think of any off the top of my head :-) < 1219250122 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eheheheheheheheh < 1219250165 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[16:20:48] I think the whole feral/tame distinction is a bit pointless anyway :-P < 1219250170 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets anmaster only implement the easy stuff. < 1219250192 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: hm, I'm sure he's implemented something feral < 1219250197 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A and O are now added to my SUBR,,,now how about fixing Mycology???? < 1219250211 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: just add an O somewhere early :-P < 1219250219 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok,,, < 1219250272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well have you decided on SUBR < 1219250279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should it be relative or absolute < 1219250280 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes we have... < 1219250282 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both.... < 1219250287 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two new commands in SUBR.... < 1219250292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1219250299 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A sets absolute mode,,,which is the default mode when it is loaded... < 1219250303 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O sets relative mode... < 1219250304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to change a fingerprint after it has been published is bad < 1219250341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus I will not implement this, because once a fingerprint is published it is set in stone < 1219250359 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know,,,,but by having the default absolute mode, then software using SUBR should not break... < 1219250363 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: where does it say that < 1219250371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, in common sense < 1219250372 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since SUBR never intended the storage offset to be used with it... < 1219250386 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case anmaster,,,which mode are you using??? < 1219250396 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :original mode was absolute,,,not relative... < 1219250404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, absolute or relative is fine, that is just defining a undef < 1219250413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but adding new commands, well I'm against that < 1219250421 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmmmmmm < 1219250426 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: common sense says that since there is approximately 1 program that uses it, it doesn't matter < 1219250456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well why was SCKE made, why not only change SOCK? < 1219250459 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use SUBR a lot in my stuff...and it assumes absolute... < 1219250460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that is what you suggest < 1219250473 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because he was not the originator of SOCK.... < 1219250486 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: he did change SOCK as well :-P < 1219250490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need versioned fingerprints then < 1219250492 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had he come to me instead of making SCKE,,,,i probably would have added his changes to SOCK... < 1219250500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say: V = Get fingerprint version < 1219250508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the program can adapt after that < 1219250509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1219250530 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fingerprint versioning is certainly an interesting idea.... < 1219250537 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you pretty much have covered in 108.... < 1219250540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, well with URIs in 108 that is easy < 1219250547 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed... < 1219250553 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: we do have versioned fingerprints, starting at version 2008-08-20 SUBR has two new instructions :-P < 1219250567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you wanted you could have a base uri that always load the last version *implemented in the interpreter* < 1219250568 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eheheheheeheheh < 1219250580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :may not be the last defined version though < 1219250595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, then I shall implement the old one < 1219250602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course mycology needs to support that then < 1219250616 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: sorry, Mycology tests the newest only < 1219250630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, then it need to gracefully say that, not fail < 1219250642 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can add it to the readme :-P < 1219250658 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but you do realize that was a joke anyway :-P < 1219250666 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they aren't versioned if you can't tell the difference between two versions < 1219250674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I could make a SCK6 or something, then I could change it and well mycology wouldn't be right until you updated it would it? ;P < 1219250681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and indeed < 1219250730 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just my opinion here,,,i too agree that fingerprints should not be changed too much without good reason.,...are to clarify something that was not well understood.... < 1219250754 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/are/or/ < 1219250778 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I agree as well, but I think it's just practical to improve on them while you only have 1 or 2 users... < 1219250790 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will agree to that.... < 1219250800 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doubt we ever will have more than 1 or 2 users ever tho!!!! eheheheheheehheeheheheheheh < 1219250810 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably ;-) < 1219250879 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I wrote Rc/Funge-98,,,never actually expected anybody to do anything with it besides me!!! !eheheheeheheh < 1219250934 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1219250950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1219250964 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was really surprised when others based there mini-funge off of my concept....and even more surprised when others implemented some of my fingerprints.... < 1219250974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe I'll add this then, however in what specific format is the return vector pushed in relative addressing? < 1219250982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't return vector still be absolute < 1219250986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case the offset changes < 1219250999 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :return vector i think should be absolute.... < 1219251005 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1219251021 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it should return the IP to where the C was done from... < 1219251027 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, so the flag only toggles what J and C pop? < 1219251032 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.... < 1219251036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1219251038 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that'd work < 1219251040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1219251049 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will add that to the docs.... < 1219251088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it is rather painful to add new instructions to a fingerprint in cfunge compared with the initial creation of one < 1219251093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that is another reason I dislike this < 1219251106 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so change your system :-P < 1219251135 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy to modify fingerprints in my code... < 1219251293 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :took me all of 5 minutes to add those two new instrutions to SUBR... < 1219251295 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a feeling it was I who "specified" SCKE, and it was pretty much for a single program I was writing at the time, and by no means meant to be a "real specification". < 1219251318 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the enhancemens that SCKE added.... < 1219251340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well where are the docs < 1219251351 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have seen the docs somewhere for that.... < 1219251362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for new SUBR I mean........ < 1219251402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the flag is global right? < 1219251410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is per-ip I'm just going to drop SUBR < 1219251419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, Deewiant ^ < 1219251424 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then drop it < 1219251428 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh....for SUBR,,,right here on my hard drive!!! eheheheheheheeheh < 1219251432 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hold on...will post them... < 1219251436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks I will drop it then < 1219251437 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :global makes it somewhat pointless < 1219251449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, per-ip makes it feral < 1219251453 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is per-ip..... < 1219251460 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what the hell does feral vs. tame matter < 1219251484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that I have to add another field to the ip struct in core for just a single fingerprint < 1219251500 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and, what the hell does that matter < 1219251506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and code to copy it around < 1219251510 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :documenation is now posted < 1219251514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fingerprints should be self contained if you see what I mean < 1219251530 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err? code to copy it around? < 1219251539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, for t and such < 1219251545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to set initial value < 1219251547 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you should not have implemented MODE right???? since that is ferel.... < 1219251548 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely you don't copy field by field... < 1219251549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on and so on < 1219251551 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: he didn't < 1219251555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, I don't have MODE < 1219251555 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh...ok,,,, < 1219251586 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you should be using memcpy anyway so that's that, and as for initial value is adding "mode = 0" so hard? < 1219251592 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCKE is documented in the GLfunge distribution, doc/ext_SOCK.txt, but GLfunge pretty much died when I got bored and started to do other stuff. The sources are also pretty horrible; it was written eight years ago. < 1219251594 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, it's a two line change < 1219251610 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand that tameness is nice < 1219251614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, memcpy doesn't make much sense as you shouldn't copy all values < 1219251618 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I honestly think it's a pointless concept < 1219251619 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for Rc/Funge-98,,,,the changes were really simple.... < 1219251642 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: memcpying 20 values is probably faster than setting 5 manually < 1219251642 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah,,,i think that is where i saw the docs on SCKE.... < 1219251658 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just copy one ip structure to another and change what is needed on the copied ip.... < 1219251670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and? I'm not speed crazy < 1219251682 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and, it makes more sense to do a copy anyway < 1219251692 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it /is/ a copy < 1219251710 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"t causes the current IP to be duplicated" is what the spec says IIRC < 1219251735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well then CCBI breaks by not also copying loaded fingerprints < 1219251751 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's a bug that was fixed long agy < 1219251753 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1219251754 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ago < 1219251776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't it an UNDEF? < 1219251798 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copying of fingerprints i think is undef.....Rc/Funge-98 copies them tho... < 1219251802 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not explicitly said so I guess it belongs in mycology_opinionated :-P < 1219251806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge copies them < 1219251826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there falls your "just memcpy" < 1219251827 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i figured,,,makes a copy of the ip covered everything about an ip... < 1219251835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they are pointers to stack structs < 1219251846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with pointers to the array of function pointers in them < 1219251848 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so you do a memcpy followed by a deep copy. < 1219251858 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the fields which required it < 1219251929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I will not update fingerprints to add or change commands in the future unless it was a misinterpretation of the original version I read of the docs for said fingerprint < 1219251937 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@i-149.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1219251962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the fingerprint is very very new so there are docs bugs < 1219251966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but SUBR is hardly new < 1219251969 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trouble is,,,when it comes to my fingerprints,,,and the poor documentation,,,misinterpretation is probable!!!! eheheheheheehheeh < 1219251996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I will seriously consider simply dropping those fingerprints instead < 1219252008 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is certainly an option... < 1219252016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this time I won't drop SUBR, but really, changes should not be made to existing fingerprints < 1219252032 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i usually try to avoid changing them,,,,,but this one made sense... < 1219252039 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like adding D to FILE made sense.... < 1219252048 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, D was an obvious omission < 1219252054 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it was... < 1219252059 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was really surprised that it wasn't there when I read the docs :-P < 1219252067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure right, a lot of changes make sense, I agree with that. the issue is, you will end up with different versions of the fingerprints < 1219252071 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah,,,,,oversight on my part... < 1219252074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and programs depending on old behaviour < 1219252081 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: when I finish my 0 fingerprint I'll make sure it has 26 instructions which are well documented :-) < 1219252086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say something that depended on D from something else when loading FILE after < 1219252091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now such a program would be broken < 1219252093 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :programs depending on old behaviour would not be affected by the changes to SUBR.... < 1219252100 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok,,,see your point.... < 1219252132 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: in practice since Mycology is approximately the only one that uses these, it doesn't really matter for now :-) < 1219252136 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how many such programs really exist???? < 1219252143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is why you shouldn't update fingerprints, any change is likely to break existing programs, and that is why changing very very new ones, like FING to clarify some points is ok, because the only thing likely to have been written so far is a test program for it < 1219252157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, how do you know that? < 1219252166 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well...what about misintrpretations of old fingerprints???? < 1219252174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a test program for FILE too < 1219252183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to check some stuff with multiple files open at once < 1219252184 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: do you really think somebody is writing closed-source Befunge somewhere and is all pissed that we're messing with fingerprints? :-P < 1219252209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, not likely indeed, but that is not the question here < 1219252219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the issue is breaking open source app as well < 1219252223 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I understand the principle < 1219252227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fixing befunge programs is *painful* < 1219252228 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the fact is, there is no such app < 1219252233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there is no space < 1219252235 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :painful to say the least!!!! < 1219252248 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm getting quite used to it, it's not so bad :-P < 1219252252 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only TRDS was/is a pain < 1219252257 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have done plenty of it as well.... < 1219252260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will be? < 1219252268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time travel remember :P < 1219252270 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, maybe I'll drop it as well ;-P < 1219252291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh... it was a joke about time travel, though I think it may be a pain anyway < 1219252301 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was not a joke really.... < 1219252330 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whether a TRDS bug travels from the past to the future or just normally appears in the future it's still a pain < 1219252332 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i actually saw somewhere sombody eluding to time-travelling IPs and i thought it was an interesting concept.... < 1219252335 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i tried it.... < 1219252359 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I think I saw such a mention when browsing old esolang mailing list archives < 1219252364 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but admitately,,,TRDS does produce an awful lot of undef behaviour.... < 1219252399 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my original TRDS code worked with my tests....but not mycology's.... < 1219252406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about a backtracking extension, Prolog for befunge if you see what I mean < 1219252415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I would implement it I admit < 1219252418 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1219252441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, are those test public? < 1219252446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and does CCBI work on them? < 1219252461 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the TRDS test ain't < 1219252467 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no,,,they were not....did not expect anybody else to be insane enough to try and implement TRDS!!!! eheheheheheeheh < 1219252472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION prepares a nice week for debugging for Deewiant and MikeRiley < 1219252483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to you changing SUBR :P < 1219252491 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: since he hasn't fixed his to work with Mycology why should I fix mine to work with his tests ;-) < 1219252520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe having a common interpretation of TRDS would be nice? < 1219252541 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if only anybody knew what it should be < 1219252572 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :acutally i have been working on changing TRDS to pass mycology tests.... < 1219252596 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i also have a document better describing what TRDS should be capable of doing.... < 1219252609 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a page-long comment in my TRDS impl which documents a workaround for something of which I'm not at all sure whether it always works or not < 1219252657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, feel free to change it! I don't implement it, and I will love Deewiant having to change it < 1219252660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1219252672 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eheheheheheeh < 1219252687 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least I can rip off RC/Funge-98's code now < 1219252693 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was impossible before since it didn't work at all :-P < 1219252714 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well,,,it did work,,,,but worked with my intentions...and yours were different.... < 1219252715 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1219252723 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my original work on it was primitive.... < 1219252725 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: it failed my very first test < 1219252742 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was, when traveling back in time, are the contents of funge-space what they were at that time < 1219252757 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had a series of test programs i used to write it originally,,,and they all worked,,,you and I just had different assumptions.... < 1219252769 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a bug actually!!!! < 1219252773 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and has been fixed.... < 1219252773 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1219252781 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had not changed funge-space when i was doing my tests... < 1219252782 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"actually" :-D < 1219252794 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so never caught that one... < 1219252796 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, that was a bit of a letdown :-P < 1219252808 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was the very first thing that I thought of when thinking how the hell I should test TRDS < 1219252809 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was only interested that the IP went backwards and other IPs worked correctly... < 1219252828 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very sensible actually...i just did not think of testing that.... < 1219252858 0 :tusho!n=tusho@91.105.80.203 JOIN :#esoteric < 1219252874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, is mycology updated for new SUBR yet? < 1219252881 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not yet. < 1219252891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when will it be then? < 1219252902 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it will be. < 1219252916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, btw do you have a test suite for your regex fingerprint? < 1219252923 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.imaginaryrobots.net/projects/funge/ who maintains this page < 1219252925 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes,,,on my site i think... < 1219252929 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a link to the new rc/funge site... < 1219252937 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: jesse van herk < 1219252942 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who < 1219252942 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mailed him about it last night < 1219252943 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1219252944 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it have the right one??? < 1219252953 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I told him to link to rcfunge98.com < 1219252960 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the correct one... < 1219252964 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and told him to update his JSTR spec < 1219252972 0 :Slereah_!n=x@ANantes-252-1-20-178.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1219252976 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he did, surprisingly quickly too :-P < 1219252983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, google returns the elf-emulation one when you google rc/funge < 1219252996 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: google isn't always right < 1219253009 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is because it was there before i registered the rcfunge98.com < 1219253010 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: can you find zlib's home page using google? < 1219253026 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: wow you're right you can't < 1219253027 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster,,,just checked,,,the REXP test is on my site.... < 1219253027 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? < 1219253033 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: I don't know < 1219253053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes was on second page here < 1219253059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree it wasn't at the top < 1219253069 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many results per page? < 1219253075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 < 1219253086 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not in the first 3 pages for me, and I have 30 results per page < 1219253106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well blame localised google? < 1219253108 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :googling just "zlib" that is < 1219253113 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: do you use localized google? < 1219253131 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try google.se < 1219253135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, nop but google.com still maps to servers in Sweden < 1219253155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :geodns I guess < 1219253155 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google.se doesn't find it either < 1219253166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well I don't use the .se version... < 1219253169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I said above < 1219253170 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: do you use a google account when you search? < 1219253180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well I may be logged in on gmail still < 1219253182 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: neither do I, I use google.com/ncr < 1219253189 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that might matter then < 1219253203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I do use customisegoogle plugin to remove sponsored links as well < 1219253205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and such < 1219253208 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as do I < 1219253299 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even googling for "Welcome to the zlib home page" I don't get the actual home page < 1219253305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :odd < 1219253315 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only 9 results, and none of them are www.zlib.net < 1219253330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I got a few other things on that google account, like the "webmasters tool" thingy and a few other things < 1219253510 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1219253514 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1219253639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, cfunge is updated for new SUBR < 1219253651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just waiting for updated mycology to test both absolute and relative addressing < 1219253716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also is INDV relative or absolute? < 1219253722 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :relative < 1219253729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who make INDV btw? < 1219253733 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me < 1219253811 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :manual states (just above the fingerprint specifications) that unless noted, all vectors accessing funge-space utilize the storage offset... < 1219253845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how comes mycology doesn't fail then, my INDV use absolute addressing < 1219253847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ^ < 1219253862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least used until I started changing it a few minutes ago < 1219253863 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does he test relative addressing in INDV??? < 1219253870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I assume he does < 1219253878 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INDV passes in Rc/Funge < 1219253878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he said he was using { for all tests now iirc < 1219253882 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I do not < 1219253887 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for many, not all < 1219253889 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think..... < 1219253899 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :testing INDV with { is something I intend to do though < 1219253914 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good test to add... < 1219253952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how should W write then? < 1219253967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the vector it write just "whatever was on stack, with no changes"? < 1219253976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it is < 1219254007 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :historical note on INDV...when i originally created it, i called in PNTR,,,Chris did not think it was descriptive enough for what the fingerprint did and suggested changing it to INDV.... < 1219254027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well INDV change was easy for me, I had a function called GetSecondVector(), I just need it to return a adjusted absolute vector instead < 1219254033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should use relative now I think < 1219254038 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vector on the stack is not modified,,,only when funge-space is accessed is the storage offset applied... < 1219254108 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this includes accessing funge-space to get the pointer vector.... < 1219254266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second vector, should it be adjusted in V? < 1219254311 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pointer vector is adjusted,,,the final retrieved vector is not.... < 1219254336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/rnGt1I29.html < 1219254339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that correct? < 1219254346 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me look < 1219254397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, look at G for example < 1219254404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may need another level of redirection < 1219254405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1219254420 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure of your functions....but G should work like this: < 1219254452 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get vector off of stack,,,,apply storage offset,,,,retrieve vector from funge-space,,,,apply storage offset,,,,retrieve vector from funge-space to stack,,,,,do not modify this last read vector... < 1219254476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see, so storage offset for the second vector too < 1219254504 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes.... < 1219254543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, so it should really look like http://rafb.net/p/37Xfxa33.html then? < 1219254614 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking < 1219254646 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks right.... < 1219254673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still not sure about V though < 1219254679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fungeVector v = GetSecondVector(ip); < 1219254679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : StackPushVector(ip->stack, < 1219254679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : VectorCreateRef( < 1219254679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : FungeSpaceGet(&v), < 1219254679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : FungeSpaceGet(VectorCreateRef(v.x+1, v.y)) < 1219254679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ) < 1219254681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ); < 1219254694 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you not understand about v??? < 1219254718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should the last one have storage offset applied hm... < 1219254736 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the final one retrieved from funge-space to the stack is not modified... < 1219254751 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pointer one is.... < 1219254807 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in all funcitons of INDV,,,,a vector is popped off the stack and the storage offset is applied,,,,that points to a vector in memory which is retrieved and the storage offset applied,,,,whatever data that points to is read as is.... < 1219254810 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or written as is... < 1219254811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, we will see if it is correct once Deewiant updates mycology < 1219254820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1219254825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, can't be for W really < 1219254831 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming he interprets INDV the same way that i do... < 1219254837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the vectors is written to the funge space < 1219254846 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the written vector is NOT modified... < 1219254848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that written vector should not have storage offset applied < 1219254856 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like the final read vector is not modified... < 1219254874 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the final data read or written is not modified by the storage offset... < 1219254889 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only the 2 pointer vectors are... < 1219255175 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i take it you do not have unefunge or trefunge modes??? at least your functions appear to not support those modes.... < 1219255503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : newsize += newsize % ALLOCCHUNKSIZE; < 1219255518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would round the value newsize upwards to whole ALLOCCHUNKSIZE blocks right? < 1219255525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this code of mine is confusing me < 1219255529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1219255551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, and indeed I only do befunge < 1219255564 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want confusing code....look at mine!!!! eheheheheheheeh < 1219255576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well my StackPreallocSpace() is confusing enough < 1219255584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was buggy < 1219255609 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my stack prealloc code was pretty straightforward....probably cannot read it now tho!!!! eheheheheheeheheh < 1219255619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, I use it to pre-allocate space when pushing strings on stack, mostly because of huge environment variables < 1219255633 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if newsize is 10 and ALLOCCHUNKSIZE is 8, you get 10 + 10%8 so 12. < 1219255634 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had to do that with mycology!!!!! < 1219255640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it actually helped make the HRTI test complete within reasonable time < 1219255643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it didn't before < 1219255645 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with it pushing 240,000 cells!!!!! yikes!!!! < 1219255647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hum < 1219255653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, should be 16 < 1219255668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you mean: newsize += ALLOCCHUNKSIZE - (newsize % ALLOCCHUNKSIZE); < 1219255669 0 :Hiato!n=Hiato@dsl-245-8-129.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1219255670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or? < 1219255694 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: better, at least. :-P < 1219255705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but not correct? < 1219255733 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1219255735 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems to work < 1219255743 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't be bothered to think it through :-P < 1219255750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also ALLOCCHUNKSIZE is 4096 btw < 1219255771 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsize = (newsize + ALLOCCHUNKSIZE - 1) % ALLOCCHUNKSIZE; would be more idiomatic, perhaps. < 1219255784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, tip: set almost clean environment before, you want something like: env -i TERM="$TERM" PATH="$PATH" ../rcfunge mycology.b98 < 1219255797 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: no, that wouldn't work. < 1219255807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need PATH for PERL test I think < 1219255822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and TERM for the NCRS and TERM fingerprints < 1219255825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait that is a separate test < 1219255830 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That way the newsize would always be in the range [0,ALLOCCHUNKSIZE) which is of course not a good thing. :-) < 1219255838 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I noticed few seconds too late. :p < 1219255843 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a growing stack now....so not really a problem with the environment... < 1219255856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my old code was even worse < 1219255857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsize += (minfree % ALLOCCHUNKSIZE + 1) * ALLOCCHUNKSIZE; < 1219255866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way that rounds anything upwards < 1219255927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, well I need to pre-allocate in y, what I do is cache the size of the environment on the first time I run y < 1219255935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then in the future I pre-allocate that much < 1219255940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :helps a lot < 1219255957 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just built code into my Push routine, when it runs out of stack space it allocates more.... < 1219255962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course this may be wrong if the environment is changed with EVAR but it still helps somewhat < 1219255974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, so does mine, however HRTI test was too slow that way < 1219255987 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too slow??? < 1219255989 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"too slow"? :-P < 1219255990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I do some pre-allocation to avoid a lot of realloc() calls < 1219255994 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define "too slow" < 1219256005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in I had to wait minutes for it to finish when I ran cfunge under valgrind < 1219256014 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here is my result from HRTI: < 1219256016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was fine outside valgrind, but I need to be able to debug with valgrind < 1219256017 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNDEF: T after M pushed 23 and a second T, after ff*kyn, pushed 38963 < 1219256017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1219256045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, well I got a very large enviroment < 1219256047 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debuggin on the other hand,,,,i can see where that makes sense... < 1219256052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ env | wc -c < 1219256052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5728 < 1219256053 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine is not exactly small either... < 1219256054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that isn't fair < 1219256061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, your is that large? < 1219256067 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3668 here... < 1219256074 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit smaller.... < 1219256106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :env -i TERM="xterm" ./cfunge -S mycology/mycology.b98 < 1219256107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNDEF: T after M pushed 71 and a second T, after ff*kyn, pushed 361 < 1219256108 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still think there is a better way for HRTI than pushing all that stuff to the stack.... < 1219256113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for fair comparsion < 1219256120 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least .... clear it out after each y!!!1 ehehehehehehe < 1219256125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, um? < 1219256129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1219256157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my stack is an array, that I realloc() when I need to grow it < 1219256160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I realloc in chunks < 1219256179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now HRTI test was rather slow as you can imagine < 1219256184 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also realloc in chunks... < 1219256207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what I did was store how much space the environment variables used first time y was executed < 1219256235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I make sure to preallocate such a large chunk should the environment variables need to be pushed again < 1219256255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this really helps in HRTI test < 1219256261 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see... < 1219256262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for large environments like mine < 1219256283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, otherwise I would have to temp disable HRTI to test some other fingerprint under valgrind < 1219256301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh btw I don't implement EVAR :P < 1219256324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do plan to < 1219256329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just haven't got around to it yet < 1219256358 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVAR has its uses.... < 1219256364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure I can see that < 1219256366 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i implemented that one early on... < 1219256420 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact,,,that may be pretty close to one of the first ones i impllemented....beyond the basic cat's eye ones... < 1219256446 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then after that I went crazy and started defining fingerprints left and right!!! eheheheeheheheheheheheheheheh < 1219256501 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ended up wanting the most advance funge/98 interpreter out there,,,,nevermind at the time Rc/Funge-98 was written,,,there were no other ones!!! eheheehheheheheheeh < 1219256617 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1219256639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1219256668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, care to implement REXP in mini-funge? ;P < 1219256682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is possible, though rather painful < 1219257005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, what is MVRS? < 1219257015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a test for it but no docs... < 1219257047 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so feral that you don't want to know :-) < 1219257054 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hint: it's short for "multiverse" < 1219257060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm interesting < 1219257069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like something I like to know more about but not implement < 1219257075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so what does it do? < 1219257084 0 :Hiato!n=Hiato@dsl-245-8-129.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1219257085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :separate funge spaces under same interpreter? < 1219257110 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I gather that it's like concurrency but you can run in different files/environments which are independent of each other and can communicate only via the MVRS instructions < 1219257122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1219257122 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could even have Befunge in one and Trefunge in another < 1219257128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1219257133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :feral yeah < 1219257143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you said "feral" was a useless term iirc? < 1219257148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disagree < 1219257148 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is what caused me to start doing a semi-full rewrite of CCBI :-) < 1219257159 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think making the distinction between feral and tame is pointless < 1219257165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION points to TRDS and now this MVRS < 1219257169 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SUBR for instance is trivial to implement even though it is feral < 1219257181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well yeah but there is a point to it < 1219257183 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't put SUBR in the same class as TRDS and MVRS < 1219257191 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand the intent behind it < 1219257195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't do ferral in mini-funge < 1219257199 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you were not around when i said what MVRS is all about??? < 1219257200 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think it's pointless compared to just saying "X is hard to implement" < 1219257206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ^ < 1219257209 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: that or he didn't read the logs < 1219257221 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be... < 1219257226 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: SUBR you probably could do in mini-funge since the ghost IP can store the mode? < 1219257236 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I forget the exact limitations of mini-funge9 < 1219257239 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/9/)/ < 1219257246 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster: basicly MVRS supports a new capability in Rc/Funge-98 V2 to support multiple universes (or VMs)... < 1219257251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, could a third party just create a C/C++/D/whatever file using the existing API of the interpreter and drop it in (+ maybe something to tell it that this new file exist) < 1219257254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it is probably tame < 1219257262 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, I understand that < 1219257268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the interpreter already supports the needed things < 1219257285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, oh, vitalisation in funge?! < 1219257290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this sounds enterprisy! < 1219257296 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, not virtualisation :-P < 1219257304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh typo < 1219257306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1219257318 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep....each vm is distinct,,,one can be running befunge another can be running unefunge or trefunge... < 1219257319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant virtualisation < 1219257329 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one can be running funge/98 while another runges funge/93 or funge/108.... < 1219257329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but aspell didn't know it, so I just corrected it < 1219257333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thought that was right < 1219257352 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data can be copied between universes using MVRS and IPs can travel to other universes using MVRS.... < 1219257365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, wow < 1219257373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however your docs are missing for it < 1219257379 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is all working now in Rc/Funge V2... < 1219257382 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I gather it's a WIP still? < 1219257385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, also how can befunge-93 support it? < 1219257389 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is because the docs for V2 have not been posted yet... < 1219257395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, 93 have no fingerprints < 1219257403 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so the 93 can't communicate with the outside world < 1219257406 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it cannot....but a funge/98 can access the universe of a funge/93.... < 1219257410 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but that doesn't mean something else can't modify the 93 < 1219257413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it could using STDIO < 1219257415 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct... < 1219257418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1219257438 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the universes are done,,,,i am also replacing the mini-funge as well... < 1219257454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, what about redirecting the STDIO of one VM for use with some pipe reading thingy in the other VMs? < 1219257455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1219257455 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the new dynamic fingerprint model will allow the full power of the Rc/Funge VM to be used for fingerprints... < 1219257464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, and starting a VM in safe mode < 1219257466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like cfunge can do < 1219257470 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means trefunge could be used in dynamic fingerprints, fingerprint overloads, etc.... < 1219257483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie, block FILE, i, o, =, DIRF, and some other stuff < 1219257485 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesing idea for the pipes....may do something with that... < 1219257493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, and the protected/safe mode? < 1219257501 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like that idea as well... < 1219257527 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, MikeRiley: new Mycology up, has new SUBR and fixes a concurrency bug < 1219257530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, actually cfunge also reduces the environment variables displayed in y to a "safe subset" in safe mode < 1219257533 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a universe is created through MVRS then there is a flags cell used to create the universe,,,otherwise the universes are created when staring Rc/Funge... < 1219257547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what concurrency bug? < 1219257551 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok deewiant,,,will go and get it... < 1219257563 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what MikeRiley was running into: ;; results were off by one < 1219257576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so now cfunge will be wrong again? I hope not < 1219257580 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: BTW I have an issue with your flags cell < 1219257583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I verified all that is correct in cfunge < 1219257600 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: probably not, it's off by one in that it thinks it took one less than it really did < 1219257601 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok,,,issue is??? < 1219257610 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: it's very RC/Funge-98 specific < 1219257610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, -1 ticks XD < 1219257616 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why??? < 1219257622 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: of course 0,0,1 instead of 0,1,2 :-) < 1219257624 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-9-39.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1219257631 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: for instance that "official Y" bit < 1219257646 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: and possibly other stuff as well, I can't remember what exactly was there < 1219257653 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that was most glaring < 1219257671 0 :asiekierka!n=asiekier@user-89-108-236-17.mobile.playmobile.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1219257688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no BAD < 1219257692 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then Rc/Funge-98 has an altered y function,,,as well as the spec.... < 1219257694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that got to be ok < 1219257695 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | ok* < 1219257698 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :new mycology runs good.... < 1219257703 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1219257705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfect here < 1219257716 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: yes, exactly, but putting something like that in a fingerprint is a bad idea... < 1219257722 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why??? < 1219257729 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: or should I add flags for the various CCBI capabilities?? what about cfunge?? < 1219257747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it about? < 1219257751 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok,,,,let me put it this way,,,,is anybody besides me going to implement MVRS??? < 1219257760 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: I probably will < 1219257762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, maybe, it sounds like a cool thing < 1219257767 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could label that bit as being Rc/Funge-98 specific.... < 1219257771 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a feral one from you? O_o < 1219257774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think cfunge will have it < 1219257784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I have been thinking of writing another funge interpreter < 1219257787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in another language < 1219257797 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erlang? :-) < 1219257808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably erlang or some object orientated language, like objc or smalltalk < 1219257830 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: what you /could/ do is say that bits above that are implementation-defined, but I still don't think that's that great an idea < 1219257837 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that the y functionaly is not a requiement to implement,,,and in my implementation, not specifying it will provide the spec y instead of mine....how about that??? < 1219257839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what bits exactly? < 1219257849 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did anyone try to implement a befunge-93 interpreter in BF? < 1219257857 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: also, dimensions: you have 3 bits, what about 4-dimensional or higher? should just pop a cell which gives the dimensionality < 1219257874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1219257890 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: it just seems so out of place, that kind of flag < 1219257893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, also I have been thinking about a "dimensions on demand" system < 1219257895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure how < 1219257901 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems reasonable....the spec for it is still in flux....so can make changes like that at this point...afterall...it is not published yet... < 1219257903 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: how about, "sub-universes inherit any implementation-specific settings from the parent"?? < 1219257916 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: so you get to keep your Y setting as it was given on the command line < 1219257921 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is how mine works now actually... < 1219257926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that is x,y,z,... < 1219257928 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it inherits.... < 1219257930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1219257939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a command to change number of dimensions < 1219257945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure which would be best < 1219257955 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: so why not just keep it at that (and remember to document it!) < 1219257959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either way it wouldn't be compatible with real funge I think < 1219257961 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can do that.... < 1219257963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be a fungoid < 1219257986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about "implementation-specific settings" < 1219257996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would prevent having safe modes for some VMs? < 1219257997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or? < 1219258007 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still need to be able to override what is created in the new universe....since a universe can be created with a different language version or dimensionality... < 1219258025 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, how would you transfer such settings when creating a new universe < 1219258035 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: I'd say pop two cells, one for version and one for dimensions < 1219258040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, for dimension: pop a cell n off the stack, then set the number of dimensions to n < 1219258042 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok,,,,, < 1219258046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for version another cell < 1219258049 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a good idea for the implementation-specific settings would be nice < 1219258050 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can live with that.... < 1219258055 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't think of anything that would work well < 1219258058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well cfunge couldn't do it < 1219258065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would need to make it a non-global setting < 1219258068 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least not without making all MVRS programs non-portable < 1219258094 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so why did you ask since you can't do it anyway? ;-P < 1219258094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I think for multiverse an object orientated language like C++ would be best < 1219258099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or objc < 1219258105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be easiest that way anyway < 1219258113 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably so,,,,,Rc/Funge is implementing them in structures.... < 1219258123 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i seriously thought about using c++.... < 1219258131 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know about that but C is probably a bit of a pain to work with in cases like this, yes :-) < 1219258138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, about these VMs is there any relation between number of ticks executed in each? < 1219258144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or could you run them on different processors? < 1219258148 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, there is < 1219258151 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no, you can't < 1219258154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1219258158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I won't implement it < 1219258159 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no relation,,,,they are to be considered time independent... < 1219258162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever < 1219258166 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm?? < 1219258172 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: last time you said they aren't :-P < 1219258182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well an implementation could make them have a relation if it wants then < 1219258189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not have it if it doesn't want it < 1219258194 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are not synced together,,,,but one universe runs after another one does... < 1219258198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds fine to me < 1219258202 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. if universe B is created at tick 10 in A then 10 ticks later universe A is at tick 20, universe B is at tick 10 < 1219258207 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: or what < 1219258208 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1219258209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, so you couldn't execute one on another CPU? < 1219258209 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you have something like TRDS to change the time on one of them,,,,the ticks will probably all be the same... < 1219258210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or so? < 1219258223 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in theory you could run one on another cpu....but did not intend it that way... < 1219258224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, think about all these dual core systems < 1219258227 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: is what I said above guaranteed, barring TRDS < 1219258254 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a universes tick count starts from its creation.... < 1219258265 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: so answer the question :-P < 1219258272 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if created sometime after the initial start,,,then whatever universe created it will have a different tick count... < 1219258284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :question is: could you use multiple OS threads to implement it? < 1219258287 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes... still doesn't answer my question < 1219258288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you need to keep them in sync < 1219258300 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no reason i can think of to keep them in sync.... < 1219258312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, all communication happen using messages or? < 1219258327 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :communications happen by copying funge-space from one to another... < 1219258328 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: well, inter-universe communication will be a bit of a pain if they aren't in sync < 1219258329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is shared memory this is going to be painful < 1219258334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok that is bad < 1219258338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would prefer message passing < 1219258341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make stuff a lot easier < 1219258345 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could use the IPC fingerrprints.... < 1219258348 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the file system.... < 1219258349 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: heh, you learned about this only a week ago or? :-P < 1219258352 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything you like really.... < 1219258363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, no I knew about message passing concurrency before < 1219258367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know erlang though < 1219258372 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for message passing,,,use the MSGQ fingerprint... < 1219258382 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: thing is, if they aren't in sync, it's quite possible that universe B runs its program to the end before A even gets the next instruction :-P < 1219258395 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is theoretically possible.... < 1219258398 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and allowed.... < 1219258405 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a bit crap then < 1219258409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, point is, if you copy or read remote funge space the remote funge space may have changed by the time you get the response back < 1219258413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you see what I mean < 1219258420 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if syncing is required....then that has to be build into the programs running in the universes... < 1219258421 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could just implement MVRS in such a way that it runs the child universe immediately always < 1219258470 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then do not use copy functions for communication use MSGQ, SMPH and SMEM.... < 1219258470 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :No route to host < 1219258482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok I think MVRS looks as badly defined as TRDS :P < 1219258483 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of which are non-portable... < 1219258496 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is!!!!! that is why it is not posted yet!!!! < 1219258497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1219258500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do it anyway < 1219258507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use a >< mutex at the start < 1219258508 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not portable??? any posix system should have those??? < 1219258518 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: POSIX-only != portable < 1219258526 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: busy-waiting? no thanks < 1219258528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then make the other VM change funge space remotely, overwriting that mutex < 1219258529 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok,,,,can accept that actually... < 1219258548 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you prefer the universes be cycle-locked??? < 1219258559 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would, yes < 1219258561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well no way I will implement it if it can't be OS level threads < 1219258563 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe definable < 1219258567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that is the only reason it would be useful < 1219258570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS level threads < 1219258570 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1219258576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for dual core CPUs < 1219258577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and such < 1219258585 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: how about a flag cell that can set this? < 1219258593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeargh < 1219258596 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is reasonable.... < 1219258601 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 - not synced < 1219258618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, where is the draft for this fingerprint < 1219258621 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any positive value n - synced, child universe runs at n* speed of parent < 1219258623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still haven't seen it's instructions < 1219258626 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then message passing,,,want to build it into MVRS and then let the interpreter designer come up with a message system instead of MSGQ??? < 1219258634 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any negative value - synced, parent universe runs at n* speed of child < 1219258643 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, (-n) of course < 1219258656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1219258667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, yes < 1219258670 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: most certainly not build it into MVRS < 1219258675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe not < 1219258675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1219258684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MSGQ wouldn't work for this < 1219258689 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not??? < 1219258690 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making it another fingerprint would be fine, though < 1219258692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if you to implement it in java < 1219258693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1219258702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use different threads in java talking to each other < 1219258702 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because MVRS isn't about communication, it's about multiple universes < 1219258709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think MSGQ will allow that? < 1219258718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it is all same process < 1219258734 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if java can support MSGQ then i do not see why not,,,,but i doubt java has that ability actually... < 1219258744 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use MSGQ in the same process.... < 1219258748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, yep, but it could talk between it's threads just fine < 1219258757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not POSIX style messages I think < 1219258776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so clearly MSGQ is not a good solution to this < 1219258778 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok,,,then another fingerprint for portable messages is needed then??? so back to building a message handler inside the interpreter??? < 1219258820 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like we need a MSGS :-) < 1219258822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, well if I implemented this in erlang (non-synced multiverses would be easy there) using message passing I could use erlang's built in, excellent message passing concurrency < 1219258823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1219258834 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would essentially provide what MSGQ does,,,but without the sysV IPC requirement... < 1219258848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically needs to allow: < 1219258859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :send {command, parameters} < 1219258871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait for answer (or not) < 1219258883 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :send, recv, probe < 1219258887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probe? < 1219258891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what would probe do? < 1219258893 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-blocking recv < 1219258897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah well < 1219258901 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not really < 1219258904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want a recv with a 0 timeout instead < 1219258908 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather, non-blocking check whether something is there < 1219258909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be a better way to define it < 1219258917 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might not want to recv it < 1219258926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that would be impossible in erlang, you can push messages back once you got it < 1219258934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so non-blocking recv would work < 1219258938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poll wouldn't < 1219258942 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright, then it's just send/recv < 1219258951 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe something like broadcast < 1219258953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, non-blocking recv is fine though < 1219258954 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(send to all) < 1219258958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also fine < 1219258965 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what else < 1219258977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what about waiting for answer < 1219258983 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's recv < 1219258992 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie, block until a reply to the thing you just send arrives < 1219258995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, there is a difference < 1219259001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recv could pick up some other message < 1219259003 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :send/recv/non-blocking recv/broadcast < 1219259005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of the reply < 1219259015 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: of course recv should take a parameter "message type" < 1219259027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and leave any other messages in the mailbox < 1219259034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever you would call it < 1219259034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :queue < 1219259038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you wish < 1219259071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, not only message type, but also sender? < 1219259076 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1219259087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, sounds good to me < 1219259092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the format for sender < 1219259103 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IP ID < 1219259120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err between subverses? < 1219259123 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for MVRS, not quite sufficient < 1219259124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever you call them < 1219259125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1219259128 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :started definition on MSGS,,,,will send you guys a copy once i have a preliminary version written... < 1219259130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<0.30.0> < 1219259134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about a string like that XD < 1219259142 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1219259143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just kidding, that is internal erlang PIDs) < 1219259241 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i just emailed you the current working copy of the MVRS specs.... < 1219259252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1219259256 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most welcome... < 1219259289 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note: this is before modifying it for some of the stuff we have been discussing here... < 1219259306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(fire@phoenix.lan)3> rpc:call('ice@tux.lan', erlang, spawn, [net_adm, ping, ['fire@phoenix.lan']]). < 1219259306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<5768.51.0> < 1219259314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just as an example of distributed erlang ;P < 1219259336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second line was a remote PID < 1219259366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :G (0gnirts Vp Vd) - Go to another universe < 1219259370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what exactly does that do < 1219259378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :move the IP? how? < 1219259387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and J? < 1219259391 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: one way to do message sender would be to have the number of communicating processes preset < 1219259401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh why? < 1219259402 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they all have to report in to some "init" call < 1219259408 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then they just all get a unique number < 1219259412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, how do you mean < 1219259414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err? < 1219259428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, assigning unique IDs wouldn't be an issue really < 1219259442 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why not < 1219259451 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: remember, this isn't for MVRS < 1219259454 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: this is supposed to be generic < 1219259458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you have the resolver server to track them < 1219259473 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so how would that work in funge < 1219259478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so each time a new IP/universe/whatever wants to register itself it registers with that db < 1219259485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, wouldn't that be implementation level? < 1219259497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what do you mean? < 1219259503 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm just trying to see how/whether this can work at all :-) < 1219259508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, shouldn't it be per-ip? < 1219259516 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the sender ID? certainly yes < 1219259521 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but okay < 1219259523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1219259524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1219259524 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they register to the DB < 1219259535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well that is up to the implementation to handle < 1219259537 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I guess we're talking about two different things :-P < 1219259543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I think so too < 1219259551 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what did you mean by "that be implementation level" < 1219259551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so what are you talking about? < 1219259555 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1219259575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, registering new IPs/multiverses/whatever with the resolver of the implementation < 1219259588 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can do it similar to sysV and use keys for the message queues,,,,the 2 ips that want to communicate use their own key... < 1219259598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be able to resolve it to a real thread < 1219259599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1219259610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it knows what OS level thread to send the message to < 1219259612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1219259632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, or what do you mean? < 1219259634 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so what I'd like to know is when you have two IPs A and B, what sender ID should B push to receive a message from A, and what recipient id should A push < 1219259652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, nah key doesn't work well for what I plan < 1219259662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I guess IP id < 1219259672 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and that doesn't work for MVRS :-P < 1219259675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, for MVRS it gets more complex < 1219259689 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I stated one possibility which would work even with MVRS < 1219259691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so it would use something else, ie, negative values? < 1219259724 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what if you want to differentiate between time-travelling and non-travelling IPs in TRDS < 1219259728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ok, so positive values are the local mappings, local IPs < 1219259729 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: point being, there are too many possibilities < 1219259736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :negative values are global mappings < 1219259741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which MVRS would return somehow < 1219259746 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, "somehow" < 1219259751 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: this shouldn't be tied to MVRS < 1219259763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well MVRS could extend the existing fingerprint < 1219259772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie, hook into it's framework < 1219259773 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why not just make it work for all cases by default < 1219259775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you see what I mean < 1219259794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I'm against limited set of threads to communicate < 1219259795 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: okay, hmm, that got me an idea actually < 1219259798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would make it much harder < 1219259822 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: an instruction that pushes a guaranteed but implementation-dependent unique ID for this IP < 1219259828 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it can be shared via funge-space initially < 1219259837 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is possible if each vm has its own unique id as well.... < 1219259849 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the id for an IP is a combination of its local id and the universe id.... < 1219259850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so reserve some value, maybe -1 or whatever as "external communication", then have extra arguments after that tells what sort of extensions (ie MVRS) and data for that < 1219259855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could that work? < 1219259866 0 :Defe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1219259876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and that could work too < 1219259879 0 :Defe!n=harbl@k67.ip5.netikka.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1219259886 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think that's again just a workaround for a system that isn't generic in itself :-P < 1219259896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well I prefer your way then < 1219259899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: an instruction that pushes a guaranteed but implementation-dependent unique ID for this IP < 1219259899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: it can be shared via funge-space initially < 1219259901 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got to run for a bit,,,,back in a while.... < 1219259908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should work pretty well < 1219259920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously MVRS will need to expose some function to get this ID in another way < 1219259933 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1219259941 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but it's invisible from within the funges, all you know is that the instruction gives a unique ID < 1219259946 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why it's good < 1219259953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm ok that could work too < 1219259972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would probably implement MSGS if it is heading where I think it is < 1219259983 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: this would even be tame since the list is of course global :-) < 1219259998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well it would need to have the message queue locally < 1219260006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but apart from that yeah < 1219260010 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true, the fingerprint as a whole isn't tame < 1219260013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not fully tame though < 1219260048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what really excites me is the possibility of "true" concurrency in funge < 1219260071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course that bit won't happen in cfunge, but may happen in some future funge I write < 1219260078 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so hmm, recv/send/irecv/bcast/get_id < 1219260087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irecv? < 1219260099 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, sorry, MPI function names :-P < 1219260104 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immediate recv i.e. non-blocking < 1219260113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1219260164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parameters for *recv would need to be: , if either is 0 then it means "all" < 1219260167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise filter < 1219260171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1219260178 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, something like that < 1219260189 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of some way of defining groups < 1219260196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep would make sense too < 1219260216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for send you want < 1219260219 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't think of a working way < 1219260223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of the first two can be 0 < 1219260233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, let a process register itself to a named group if it wants < 1219260243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like join(stringname) < 1219260251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and leave(string name) < 1219260252 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1219260256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err add the space in the first < 1219260259 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that work, I wonder < 1219260273 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it does < 1219260276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well sure if you add some way to make the id a string < 1219260285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :means another reserved ID though < 1219260289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, -1 or something < 1219260309 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :preferably positive values, they're easier to push (1 vs 01-) < 1219260312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if -1 is the id in *recv or send then read a 0"gnirts" with group name < 1219260339 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, I suppose < 1219260340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well that is hard, first ip for me is 0 or 1 iirc, and starting at 2 just feels so illogical < 1219260349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :starting at 1 would make sense to me < 1219260353 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: these IDs aren't supposed to be IP IDs < 1219260357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah true < 1219260360 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're supposed to be unique and implementation defined < 1219260370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but they could be if the implementation doesn't do multiverse < 1219260377 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't matter what they are, you can start at INT_MAX if you want :-P < 1219260380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be the easy way to do it < 1219260382 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so push(id + 2) < 1219260389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ok sure < 1219260392 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should definitely not be a problem :-P < 1219260398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1219260400 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy for users > easy for implementers < 1219260405 0 :funktio!i=funktio@nefele.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1219260408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1219260416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, brb food < 1219260418 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funktio: did you implement concurrency, btw? < 1219260425 0 :funktio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: yup < 1219260440 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funktio: there were some bugs in that in Mycology, you might want to get the latest version < 1219260462 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since if you got all GOOD before I think there's a bug in your interpreter :-) < 1219260501 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, btw, how does this FING work exactly? Am I supposed to do this remapping like [load FING] [load FOO] [FING commands related to FOO] [load BAR] [fing commands related to BAR] ... [unload FING]? < 1219260549 0 :funktio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very possible, I looked at Mycology's output more than the spec :) < 1219260550 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean http://www.rcfunge98.com/rcfunge_manual.html#FING ? yes, that sounds like a reasonable sequence < 1219260636 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have to unload FING of course < 1219260762 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just need to remap S and C in STRN (currently to Z and Q) so that I can still access them when I load SOCK on it; and drop A and L in SOCK because I don't use them but I use the corresponding STRN instructions. I'm hoping something like this will work (with suitable error handling added): "GNIF"4( "NRTS"4($$ 'S'ZX 'C'QX "KCOS"4($$ 'AY 'LY ) < 1219260799 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that won't work < 1219260817 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ) will unload your new Z and Q < 1219260820 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1219260821 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just your Z < 1219260826 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since FING contains XYZ < 1219260830 0 :funktio!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: no BADs < 1219260845 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right. Do I want to push it with FING's Z, then? < 1219260850 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funktio: there must be a really odd bug then ;-) < 1219260884 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yeah, I guess you could duplicate it with 'Z:Z before hitting the ) < 1219260908 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, just now realized that I've been talking to two different people :-P < 1219260989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is funktio? < 1219260996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what funge interpreter did he do??? < 1219261010 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something in Haskell, don't know if he's published it < 1219261021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, as for fing, well Mike sucks at writing docs < 1219261026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I implemented it < 1219261033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can probably answer your questions < 1219261037 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think FING is really simple actually :-P < 1219261038 0 :Defe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1219261049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well it is if you know the UNDEFs ;P < 1219261055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know Mike's docs < 1219261076 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did peek at the RC-Funge 98 implementation to figure out what the Z actually does. < 1219261102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funktio, hm got a link that that interpreter of yours? < 1219261142 0 :Defe!n=harbl@k67.ip5.netikka.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1219261144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it copies the semantic loaded at one place to the top of another < 1219261161 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what else would it do? :-) < 1219261182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the source semantic stack is empty then a reflect semantic is pushed on the target stack < 1219261185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a twist < 1219261204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems documented now though < 1219261215 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Z pull push"? :-P < 1219261222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm? < 1219261229 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's what it says < 1219261230 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it should be "will". < 1219261237 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I guess. :-) < 1219261239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes < 1219261255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, tell that to Mike if I leave before he gets back will you? < 1219261268 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I remember < 1219261271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah ok < 1219261304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course I don't do SOCK yet < 1219261311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably won't before next release < 1219261322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to get things kind of stable again after all recent changes < 1219261342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and SOCK is one that could be a bit hard to implement < 1219261415 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1219261473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, depends, FILE and PERL were both kind of hard IMO < 1219261480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect the same is true for SOCK < 1219261493 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it's similar to FILE < 1219261551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well FILE is a lot easier in D I think I saw your code, 1) throw/catch 2) high level abstraction for file handling < 1219261563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/think/think,/ < 1219261628 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hee, "supported" sounds funny when it's reversed. < 1219261630 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^rev supported < 1219261630 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :detroppus < 1219261636 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) actually I used the C API as specified < 1219261640 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Detroppus. Heh. < 1219261645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm ok < 1219261657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but you can do "append to end of string" much easier < 1219261662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to do buffer handling < 1219261669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure I got a string buffer library now < 1219261673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I didn't back then < 1219261831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm the fastest way to shutdown a large cluster of erlang nodes is < 1219261833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rpc:eval_everywhere(init, stop, []). < 1219261834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1219261993 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :tusho|away < 1219262311 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, RC/Funge-98 needs a Makefile "-DSCKE" addition, otherwise it won't have SCKE. < 1219262327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1219262346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what does it do with those defines? < 1219262350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean how does it work < 1219262419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm if what I see is correct (my rc/funge copy is a bit dated) then the cfunge way is much more elegant :) < 1219262433 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In ext.c there's a huge "... else if (FingePrint==0x1234abcd) Load_ABCD(FingerPrint,cip); ..." chain, the rows of which are #ifdef ABCD ... #endif -paired. < 1219262438 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not very elegant. < 1219262445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1219262455 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially since the Makefile does not test for those defines, so it anyway compiles in the scke.c code. < 1219262460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, cfunge's way is more complex < 1219262476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses something called .spec files to generate a header with an array containing fingeprint info < 1219262503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BASE.spec looks like this : http://rafb.net/p/mYyMio54.html < 1219262506 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think GLfunge used dlopen()ed libs which had an init function of sorts that could map instructions. Don't remember the details. It wasn't especially clean. < 1219262532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to generate a template file with all the loading code and empty functions for BASE I would run this: tools/gen_fingerprint.sh BASE < 1219262541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to update the header I would run: < 1219262544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tools/gen_fprint_list.sh < 1219262561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the header got an array with entries like this in it: < 1219262562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : // BASE - I/O for numbers in other bases < 1219262563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : { .fprint = 0x42415345, .uri = NULL, .loader = &FingerBASEload, .opcodes = "BHINO", < 1219262563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : .url = "http://www.elf-emulation.com/funge/rcfunge_manual.html", .safe = true }, < 1219262597 0 :Tritonio_!n=tritonio@gw1.mycosmos.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1219262604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what do you think of my way? :) < 1219262614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say it is pretty elegant < 1219262617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though complex < 1219262720 0 :tusho|away!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :tusho < 1219262837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what is even better, I can do directed fuzz testing of a fingerprint with another script that extracts info about what instructions a fingerprint implements then generates some random data containing that (+ some core instructions). It automatically runs each generated program under first plain cfunge, then under valgrind, if any of them fail in some way (that is, anything but exit code zero o < 1219262838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :r due to SIGALARM, for time limit) it will break and let the user debug what went wrong < 1219262844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :helped me find quite a few bugs :) < 1219262854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crash bugs that is < 1219262875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or bad memory stuff < 1219262926 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: don't you have something better to do < 1219262935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, huh? < 1219262963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, if you don't like me talking to fizzie just use /ignore then... < 1219262973 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was referring to the fuzz testing stuff < 1219262974 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1219262975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shrugs < 1219262982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hah < 1219262982 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not, if it works < 1219262988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed Deewiant < 1219263042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't perfect (it needs recompiling cfunge with a special -D option, that sets an alarm() and always make exit code from q 0 no matter what, it is only for fuzz testing, it is of course not fully standard conforming) < 1219263130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way CCBI does fingerprints seem pretty clean too < 1219263148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure though < 1219263159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I don't understand that mixin stuff or whatever it was < 1219263207 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just generate the identifier at compile-time < 1219263219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm? < 1219263226 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mixin < 1219263233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1219263238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that mean though :P < 1219263267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how do you find the fingerprints that are available, I still don't get that < 1219263270 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"changed instruction remapping, needs a real restart" < 1219263272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some sort of reflection? < 1219263275 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can say "BLAA" and it'll generate 0x424c4141 < 1219263283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1219263285 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather, "cell BLAA = 0x424c4141;" < 1219263289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well for me the bash script does that < 1219263292 0 :fungot!n=fungot@qeq4.kyla.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1219263301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, where do you keep the list of available fingerprints? < 1219263312 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the makefile-equivalent, ccbi.rf < 1219263317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1219263323 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a list of what to compile in < 1219263326 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should be the happy now: fungot uses FING and no longer FNGR. < 1219263334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, nice! < 1219263355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ok sure I see that list < 1219263362 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops, and there's also a completely half-implemented http:// url support which will crash it when used. :p < 1219263364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how do you know how to search them < 1219263370 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean < 1219263378 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^def test bf http://example.com/example.bf < 1219263379 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Host not found. < 1219263381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I mean where do you put them into some array that you can look up in when loading the fingerprint < 1219263400 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: in the static constructors in the fingerprint files, they modify the fingerprints hashmap < 1219263402 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, maybe it actually does not crash. But it does not work correctly either. I forgot I had that part in there. < 1219263412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, aha < 1219263419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok that is kind of neat < 1219263427 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's quite clean :-) < 1219263445 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it uses global state and all so it's not as great as it could be :-/ < 1219263450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, still that would have caused issues with PNTR alias no? < 1219263458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe not < 1219263463 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, I just did fingerprints[PNTR] = fingerprints[INDV]; < 1219263485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway that static constructor... is it run when you run ccbi? < 1219263492 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before the main function < 1219263493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or somehow pre-run at compile time? < 1219263494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1219263513 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a bit of startup time overhead :-) < 1219263514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, cfunge does the "put in array" at, no before, compile time :) < 1219263516 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but such is life < 1219263521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1219264036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, um your FILE test doesn't properly close some file I think < 1219264055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get a leak there that I shouldn't < 1219264057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION debugs more < 1219264059 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: possible, I wasn't careful about that when I added D < 1219264075 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's before that then it's an old bug :-) < 1219264079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1219264080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not < 1219264100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I just see a leak list at the end < 1219264122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually... < 1219264134 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster < 1219264136 0 :MikeRiley!n=rileym@las-static-208.57.195.80.mpowercom.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1219264140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1219264142 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah wait < 1219264145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, yes? < 1219264148 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1219264156 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: to quote the FING spec: "Z pull push" < 1219264156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, what was it? < 1219264163 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: might want to fix that ;-) < 1219264163 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? < 1219264166 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nuthin < 1219264168 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking < 1219264173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, say it in /msg then? < 1219264183 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its irrelevant < 1219264185 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I misinterpreted < 1219264216 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see error.....will fix.... < 1219264231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :==30562== still reachable: 96 bytes in 2 blocks. <-- well 80 of those bytes are from REFC, which I *can't* fix, the remaining 16 bytes are from FILE which I think may be a mycolgy issue < 1219264234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not sure yet < 1219264244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, hm ok < 1219264264 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything else i should fix?? < 1219264265 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you can deallocate REFC when the program is terminated, no? < 1219264266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than that all memory is freed at exit < 1219264280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, sure, but then it is kind of pointless isn't it < 1219264281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1219264297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean the OS will free it anyway < 1219264313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh and it seems like the same sort of issue for FILE in fact < 1219264321 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it doesn't matter, but if you want the errors to go away then that's that < 1219264332 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hmm? FILE shouldn't leave anything alive or? < 1219264357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I already free some other such stuff in an atexit() if it is a debug build (funge space, ip list) < 1219264367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oh and argc/argv copies) < 1219264373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, the handle list < 1219264377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :static FungeFileHandle** handles = NULL; < 1219264383 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you can remove a handle once it's closed < 1219264389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well I do < 1219264395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the list is still there < 1219264404 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can remove the list as well? < 1219264406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I used a static list and limited number of valid files, sure < 1219264410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't do that < 1219264431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, again same issue as REFC really < 1219264442 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no < 1219264456 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: in REFC, you may want to keep them alive if the fingerprint is loaded again < 1219264458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well 16 bytes of memory that may be reused anyway? < 1219264462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on 64-bit < 1219264464 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: in FILE, if closed you can delete it safely < 1219264468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be only 8 bytes on 32-bit < 1219264489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :allocated in chunks of 2 handles at a time < 1219264509 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :REFC does not specify that the list is cleared when unloaded...i keep the list until interpreter exit... < 1219264518 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1219264528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, also there is no sane way to do a hook for "fingerprint unloaded" IMO < 1219264537 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I have such hooks... < 1219264552 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :added I command to MVRS,,,,pushes unique ID onto the stack.... < 1219264554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well sure, I'll just unload without loading then and mess you up < 1219264558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, or load twice and unload once < 1219264570 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's smarter than that :-) < 1219264586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, no no, it would be in MSGS according to Deewiant < 1219264587 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1219264597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, how? < 1219264598 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but MSGS would not know about universes... < 1219264603 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so perfer it in MVRS < 1219264611 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: it doesn't have to, it can work in MVRS without knowing about them < 1219264619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I could use some fingerprint to remap and still have it loaded even if number of loads/unloads matched < 1219264622 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please don't add it to MVRS :-P < 1219264638 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not??? < 1219264646 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it doesn't belong there < 1219264661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, MSGS pushes a "unique implementation defined ID" in one of it's instructions < 1219264671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the current IP < 1219264673 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well,,,y allows an ip a way to get its id....why not a way to get the id when using MVRS??? < 1219264690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 and 1 are reserved anyway < 1219264690 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: because it's in MSGS, where it is needed < 1219264696 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmmmmm < 1219264699 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in MVRS, where it only may be needed < 1219264720 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and yeah, that's going to be fixed in the next version :-) < 1219264726 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.0 rather < 1219264733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, so if a interpreter doesn't have MVRS it would just push IP + 2, if it does have MVRS it would assign the IDs in some other way < 1219264736 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :along with my major cleanup < 1219264742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, eh? < 1219264749 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why IP+2??? < 1219264752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IP ID + 2 < 1219264761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, because 0 and 1 are reserved < 1219264763 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that if loads/unload match calling the destructor may be an error < 1219264765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 = any ip < 1219264775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hey no need for bcast instruction < 1219264776 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, MikeRiley: might reserve more (or less) as well < 1219264780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you would do send to 0 < 1219264788 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, does not necesarily correspond with the id coming from y??? < 1219264796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, and 1 is for IP groups < 1219264799 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hmm, maybe yes < 1219264803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie you can register yourself to a named group < 1219264813 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: yes, it's a completely opaque value < 1219264814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then 10"gnirts" < 1219264820 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley: merely guaranteed to be unique for any given IP < 1219264823 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :globally < 1219264825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 means "followed by group name" < 1219264830 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1219264834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, this allow broadcast to a group < 1219264837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very nifty idea < 1219264906 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so,,,,no I in MVRS,,,,anything you do want in MVRS??? < 1219264935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well what you discussed with Deewiant before? < 1219264947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, care to spec up MSGS? < 1219264951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would prefer you do it < 1219264956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are better at docs < 1219264965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you haven't made your own fingerprint so far as far as I know < 1219264971 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it won't be a very high priority for me but yes I can do it < 1219264998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I would like to check the final draft though < 1219265004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and such < 1219265017 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah yeah of course < 1219265100 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just emailed both of you the latest working copy of the MVRS spec < 1219265109 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm off to bed now, nights -> < 1219265153 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good night < 1219265364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm also leaving for night soonish < 1219265412 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so are you going to implement MVRS then?? < 1219265432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, not in cfunge, but probably in my planned future Funge coded in erlang < 1219265441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already wrote the Befunge-93 part of it < 1219265450 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-028-216.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1219265455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a test project to see how feasible it would be < 1219265461 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see... < 1219265473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it showed great promise < 1219265474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1219265481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, erlang is a functional programming language < 1219265491 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never tried it < 1219265499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it is rather nice IMO < 1219265514 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i should check it out sometime... < 1219265617 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1219265620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, oh my erlang befunge-93 is turing complete btw < 1219265624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses BIGNUMs < 1219265635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arbitrary-precision_arithmetic < 1219265696 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mvrs test scripts run with the changed B command.... < 1219265700 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will upload them shortly.... < 1219265853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, I need to finish other parts of that erlang funge first so this may take quite a while < 1219265871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is rather low priority < 1219265880 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know all about priorities.... < 1219265886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the next few months I will be busy with other stuff < 1219265894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my holiday ends last August < 1219265933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you are unlucky: next year, or even never < 1219265944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, I hope I will have time to do it :) < 1219265956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would certainly be a fun project < 1219265984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, one thing though, about get/set of remote funge space... do you still have that? < 1219265987 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know about how long some projects can take....Rc/Funge-98 was started 10 years ago now!!!! < 1219265991 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i am still working on it... < 1219265993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine if you do, but one thing < 1219265997 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i do... < 1219266004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that need to be sync in any way= < 1219266020 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no....it will grab it as it appears at the time the command is executed... < 1219266029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would probably implement it as sending a request to read funge space to the other interpreter process, then waiting for a reply < 1219266043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, because erlang got *no shared state* between processes < 1219266050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all concurrency is done using message passing < 1219266055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that would be the only way < 1219266062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no shared memory < 1219266064 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can implement it any way you like,,,,do not specify how to implement it,,,just what the function is... < 1219266074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1219266086 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as it performs the function,,,underlying implementation is not important... < 1219266094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, anyway erlang is very cool for concurrency, which would be the case here < 1219266107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spawning processes in erlang is very cheap < 1219266111 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like the fingerprint stacks in Rc/Funge-98,,,they end up doing what is required,,,in a very different way.... < 1219266112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they all run under a VM < 1219266122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, which means I can't call native OS functions either < 1219266122 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will have to take a look at that... < 1219266126 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see.... < 1219266135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is file IO and such sure < 1219266145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using file and io modules < 1219266158 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so FILE could still be implemented then??? just a different underlying method.... < 1219266165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, but I can't just call a libc routine without serious mess < 1219266170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, yep < 1219266179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :socket IO exists too < 1219266211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the model for socket IO is rather different than what C uses though < 1219266222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, so SOCK would be pretty hard I think < 1219266222 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully easier to deal with??? < 1219266226 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sockets in C suck!!! :( < 1219266238 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1219266243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, well it is easier to use sure... it just use the message passing API of erlang in an interesting way < 1219266254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is not compatible with the SOCK fingerprint in any way < 1219266266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would need some huge work to work with SOCK < 1219266270 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so...will need a different form of SOCK then.... < 1219266283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, or a marshalling layer < 1219266293 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which could be added as well... < 1219266304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I will see what I will do < 1219266307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure < 1219266315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, currently it does Befunge-93 < 1219266332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is quite a long way to go before it can do Befunge-98 even without fingerprints :P < 1219266345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I need to make a fingerprint mechanism < 1219266355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and handle "normal" concurrent funge, that is t < 1219266363 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah....funge/98 is much more complicated than 93 was... < 1219266367 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1219266367 0 :Defe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1219266397 0 :Tritonio_!n=tritonio@gw1.mycosmos.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1219266397 0 :Defe!n=harbl@k67.ip5.netikka.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1219266405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, I managed to code the 93 one in about 5 hours, even though I started learning the language just a few days before < 1219266407 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had a working funge/93 interpreter up and running within an hour two when i first saw that spec....98 took me much much longer... < 1219266433 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is pretty good!!! learning a language at the same time.... < 1219266448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, well yeah, stack is *really* easy in erlang really < 1219266449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lists < 1219266469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bzr.kuonet.org/efunge/trunk/files < 1219266469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1219266475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bzr.kuonet.org/efunge/trunk/annotate/12?file_id=fstack.erl-20080811122027-ouvcwe7ofgedh29n-3 < 1219266499 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking < 1219266502 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1219266513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, the latter one is all that is needed for a Befunge-93 stack < 1219266547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, it can't modify existing stack as it is functional, instead it returns a new changed stack < 1219266558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no mutable state either < 1219266567 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see.... < 1219266580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, you know any Haskell or such? < 1219266586 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do not < 1219266599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same style of language, though Haskell is purely functional, while erlang isn't < 1219266601 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had downloaded haskell at one time,,,but never dove into it... < 1219266670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, anyway the befunge-93 interpreter got one or two bugs, input shows a [] prompt that I can't get rid of it seems :/ < 1219266679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have yet to figure that out < 1219266694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and when the programs end it always print out the returned value of the function < 1219266700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as everything got a value in erlang < 1219266716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure you can return void, but then you returned the value void < 1219266723 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reminds me of another language i once played with,,,,which was also a functional language,,,so again,,,everything had return values < 1219266757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah so you know some basic stuff about functional languages then :) < 1219266764 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a little bit... < 1219266800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, anyway my stack code in erlang is 57 lines with comments < 1219266825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my stack.c for cfunge is 544 lines < 1219266830 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yikes!!!! < 1219266841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, well it includes stack-stack handling too < 1219266842 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my stack code is not too large....let me go see... < 1219266846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and realloc and such < 1219266862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :StackStackDuplicate() for concurrent funge < 1219266870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, oh btw I write code with a lot of newlines < 1219266883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check using a code line counter < 1219266886 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine stack code is about 80 lines... < 1219266918 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that includes the stack stack stuff and the stack duplicator for t < 1219266923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for fstack.erl < 1219266924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Language Files Code Comment Comment % Blank Total < 1219266925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-------------- ----- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- < 1219266925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erlang 1 32 17 34.7% 8 57 < 1219266925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-------------- ----- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- < 1219266925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Total 1 32 17 34.7% 8 57 < 1219266945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for stack.c in cfunge: < 1219266946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Language Files Code Comment Comment % Blank Total < 1219266947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-------------- ----- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- < 1219266947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c 1 403 61 13.1% 79 543 < 1219266947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-------------- ----- --------- --------- --------- --------- --------- < 1219266947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Total 1 403 61 13.1% 79 543 < 1219266974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, you write rather compact code iirc < 1219266980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I add a lot more newlines < 1219266993 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-82-181.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1219266995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you tend to write: < 1219266996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (foo) bar(); < 1219266998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer < 1219267000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (foo) < 1219267003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : bar(); < 1219267012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, I guess that explain some of it < 1219267025 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes,,,i do tend to write compactly.... < 1219267034 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of Rc/Funge-98 is in 10,443 lines... < 1219267037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, also I got special functions for pushing strings, poping strings, pushing and popping vectors and so on < 1219267056 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have special functions for strings,,,,not for vectors tho...should add some for vectors... < 1219267096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~/src/cfunge/trunk/src $ ~/src/ohcount-1.0.1/bin/ohcount *.[ch] */*.[ch] */*/*.[ch] < 1219267099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Total 80 6616 2781 29.6% 1175 10572 < 1219267109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Language Files Code Comment Comment % Blank Total < 1219267112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is < 1219267138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, also got a stack peek, not just pop < 1219267142 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;you comment more than i do... < 1219267148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1219267152 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do not have a peek,,,just the pop... < 1219267161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, I do use doxygen comments in my headers < 1219267163 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my commenting tends to be very sparse... < 1219267165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1219267187 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tend not to write the best code for others to understand.... < 1219267188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/ctJfly43.html < 1219267200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just an example < 1219267215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUNGEDATATYPE should be renamed btw < 1219267221 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking < 1219267225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a typedef, not a define nowdays < 1219267235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so should be FungeCell or something < 1219267246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need to tell ais though < 1219267251 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :tusho|away < 1219267335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, my stack push for one cell: http://rafb.net/p/Kw9t0W75.html < 1219267388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cf_realloc is a #define for either normal realloc() or a Boehm-GC one < 1219267390 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine is more complicated that yours,,,,because of MODe < 1219267402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, well MODE I won't implement :P < 1219267411 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do not blame you,,,it was a pain... < 1219267423 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but since it was a cat's eye fingerprint,,,just felt that i had to... < 1219267457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not a reason for me < 1219267486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"do I see any use for it", "is it sane", "is it well defined", "is it cool" are reasons for me < 1219267486 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was crazy enough to implement anything that existed at the time... < 1219267506 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in all reality,,i have never used anything in MODE... < 1219267619 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never used some of even my fingerprints either actually... < 1219267640 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1219267645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, well... if you were crazy enough to implement TRDS then you would have implemented anything else too < 1219267652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean there is no worse than TRDS < 1219267658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MVRS get close, but even so... < 1219267668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but MVRS actually seems useful < 1219267671 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true,,,,TRDS was major pain in the neck!!!!! almost sorry i ever dreamed that one up!!! < 1219267692 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MVRS is nowhere near as convoluted,,,i was able to get my implementation of MVRS running in about a day... < 1219267714 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes,,,MVRS i can see having uses...TRDS was nothing more than a curio.... < 1219267725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still it is pretty feral, cfunge can't support multiple funge spaces without some *major* changes < 1219267758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funge space is a hidden static variable in funge-space.c < 1219267768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not passed around < 1219267782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so even mini-funge would need some major redesign < 1219267808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is not something I plan to do in cfunge < 1219267830 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rc/Funge-98 required massive changes to allow MVRS... < 1219267850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge will become a good Befunge-98/108 interpreter, it will not do the most feral extensions < 1219267864 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the same changes that allow MVRS also allow me to implement a much more powerful dynamic fingerprint system... < 1219267874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while efunge will most likely do MVRS at some point < 1219267882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though *never* TRDS or MODE :P < 1219267891 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have no problem with ferel extensions,,,,if they are within reason.... < 1219267902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and FRTH would be painful in efunge too < 1219267914 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how come??? would not think that would be that hard... < 1219267942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reason: stack is a list, you can access head of list and tail (ie, everything except first element), so you just add/remove at the end < 1219267946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but access by index... < 1219267947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard < 1219267975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you work recursively on the list, getting next element < 1219267986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the list *acts* like a single linked list most of the time < 1219267996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :treating it in other ways is pretty painful < 1219268010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, see what I mean? < 1219268114 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep...see what you mean... < 1219268183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MikeRiley, also the way I currently do funge space is a bit slow, I mean slow as in Befunge-93 part of mycology feels slow < 1219268191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I got another idea < 1219268209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is using the single global state thing that actually exists in erlang < 1219268232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :called ETS < 1219268259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is used as backend for the rather fast database engine in erlang that is called mnesia < 1219268298 0 :Tritonio_!n=tritonio@195.167.65.111 JOIN :#esoteric < 1219268309 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see..... < 1219269152 0 :tusho|away!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :tusho < 1219269340 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1219269344 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say I wrote an inasnely feral extension < 1219269349 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, crazily < 1219269350 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then < 1219269355 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrote like 50 amazing befunge programs with it < 1219269356 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :truly amazing < 1219269361 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would AnMaster implement it? < 1219269380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, I already said I would, in efunge < 1219269386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not a top priority either < 1219269391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no not in cfunge < 1219269396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but likely in the future efunge < 1219269404 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so cfunge would be not that useful as I'll have written like < 1219269406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however should I follow your model tusho, that will never happen < 1219269407 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the most befunge programs of anyone < 1219269423 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[21:56:46] however should I follow your model tusho, that will never happen < 1219269424 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes no sense < 1219269429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, botte < 1219269433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are still waiting < 1219269443 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1219269446 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you dying? < 1219269448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1219269450 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure it's paining you greatly < 1219269451 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1219270428 0 :MikeRiley!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1219270675 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"restarting in a chroot/setuid/setgid jail" < 1219270755 0 :fungot!n=fungot@qeq4.kyla.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1219271554 0 :tritonio__!n=tritonio@195.167.65.108 JOIN :#esoteric < 1219271576 0 :Tritonio_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1219272841 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1219273724 0 :tritonio_!n=tritonio@gw1.mycosmos.gr JOIN :#esoteric < 1219273872 0 :tritonio__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1219275240 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1219275785 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving..." < 1219275979 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1219275979 0 :Defe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1219276322 0 :Defe!n=harbl@k67.ip5.netikka.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1219276326 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-82-181.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1219276479 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving"