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00:51:49 <CO2Games> Anyone want to try out my drainfuck parser?
00:54:18 <CO2Games> If my langauge has all of the brainfuck commands working the same way, is my language turing-complete as well?
00:57:01 <CO2Games> Hey I thought brainfuck was intended to have the smallest compiler ever.
00:57:41 <CO2Games> 200 kb my ass
00:58:01 <CO2Games> My interpreter is only 88 kb
00:58:59 <GreyKnight> yeah but theirs is tested :o)
00:59:05 <CO2Games> True
00:59:06 <GreyKnight> (a joke, but you never know)
00:59:09 <CO2Games> But mine can be.
00:59:18 <CO2Games> A joke? Theirs aren't tested?
00:59:54 <GreyKnight> I'm afraid I try to stay away from bf-alikes, so would be hard pressed to see any problems with it, but hopefully someone else will give you a hand
01:00:09 <CO2Games> :D
01:00:12 <CO2Games> D:*
01:01:40 <CO2Games> Wow
01:02:02 <CO2Games> Why is my interpreter smaller than their compilers?
01:02:35 <GreyKnight> well, compilation and interpretation are different beasts for a start, perhaps that has an effect.
01:02:43 <OkloThePol> err
01:02:54 <OkloThePol> i think the brainfuck compiler was 200b
01:02:58 <OkloThePol> umm, actually
01:03:03 <CO2Games> Oh...bytes...
01:03:04 <OkloThePol> what compiler are you talking about?
01:03:05 <CO2Games> ...eheh....
01:03:08 <OkloThePol> the original?
01:03:17 <CO2Games> The smallest working
01:03:33 <OkloThePol> well the original was near 200b
01:03:34 <CO2Games> Sorry I was thinking kilobytes ahah
01:03:57 <OkloThePol> there's a 3d game in 98kb
01:04:07 <OkloThePol> .kkrieger or something
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03:45:36 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | you could easily have like 10 buttons that way.
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04:32:10 <psygnisfive> so
04:32:15 <psygnisfive> http://wellnowwhat.net/transfers/prettyboy.jpg
04:32:16 <psygnisfive> hot
04:32:18 <psygnisfive> want him
04:32:21 <psygnisfive> love his cock
04:32:23 <psygnisfive> D:
04:34:38 <GregorR> Note to self: Read commentary BEFORE clicking random links.
06:10:12 <psygnisfive> :)
06:10:18 <psygnisfive> TOO MUCH FUN?
06:18:54 <RodgerTheGreat> hey guys- want to try out a new stack-based language I've cooked up?
06:18:55 <RodgerTheGreat> http://rodger.nonlogic.org/games/GraphScript/
06:19:23 <RodgerTheGreat> the interpreter is still a little brittle, but it can deal with most syntax errors somewhat gracefully
06:20:24 <RodgerTheGreat> running either of the frontends I provide from the console will provide you with more helpful debugging information in the case of an error than just running the applet in a browser.
06:27:03 <RodgerTheGreat> GregorR, pikhq?
06:31:37 <psygnisfive> i dislike your symbol choices. :(
06:36:38 <RodgerTheGreat> how so? Not a fan of square brackets?
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06:47:33 <psygnisfive> not a fan of not using + - etc
06:49:03 <psygnisfive> >.<
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07:28:42 <RodgerTheGreat> well, 'night, folks
07:50:05 <pikhq> RodgerTheGreat: I'll check it out in the morning.
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08:18:21 <oklofok> i'll check it out in the now.
08:20:18 <oerjan> these days, efficiency requires you to check it out in the past
08:20:39 <oerjan> always keep a time machine handy
08:20:47 <oklofok> well, in the past, i was checking out your mum.
08:21:21 <oerjan> how far in the past?
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08:24:45 <tusho> Whew.
08:24:47 <tusho> I am here early.
08:25:11 <oklofok> yay i drew a line
08:25:14 <oerjan> surprisingly, some people are awake
08:26:45 <oklofok> i was woken up by a friends asking me to go to some whacky martial arts thing
08:28:40 <tusho> oerjan: yea, but i doubt there's anyone british in here
08:28:41 <tusho> :)
08:31:19 * oerjan watches tusho doubt himself
08:31:38 <tusho> i'm too tired to doubt. :3
08:31:53 <tusho> if anyone is 1. awake 2. on IRC 3. british say "aaaaaaaaaafjkahsiuebfbuaishdiuqh312h3893y*&*&£Y"
08:32:19 <oerjan> i really thought you were british
08:34:13 <tusho> oerjan: that was a command to others
08:34:14 <tusho> not to myself
08:35:08 <oerjan> but still, you seem not to include yourself in "anyone"
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08:35:43 <oerjan> conclusion: tusho is a british robot
08:40:39 <oklofok> or, he is two
08:41:51 <oerjan> impeccable logic
08:43:36 <tusho> oerjan: i am fuzzy
08:43:38 <tusho> and i like hugs.
08:44:05 * oerjan hugs tusho 
08:44:15 <oerjan> eww, that fuzz is mold!
08:44:17 * tusho 's fuzzy state continues unchanged
08:44:21 <tusho> no it's not :(
08:46:13 <oklofok> i read too slowly
08:46:49 <oerjan> me too.  must be a sign of genius.
08:47:56 <oklofok> :D
08:47:57 * oerjan investigates the fuzz more carefully with a microscope
08:48:11 <oerjan> hey, there are little people in there!  and skyscrapers!
08:48:16 <oklofok> 8|
08:48:37 <oerjan> and a starbucks!
08:50:51 <oklofok> as a plus side to my slow reading, i do usually remember every little detail about the book
08:51:10 <oklofok> except for names and years of course, for some reason i cannot remember those
08:51:24 <oklofok> easier for me to convert the name to meaningless numbers, then remember them
08:51:35 <oklofok> or, well, think of the word as a random string
08:51:39 <oerjan> that doesn't explain the years
08:51:43 -!- oklofok has changed nick to oklopol.
08:52:07 <oklopol> basically, at some point in my life i've decided names and times are not important
08:52:22 <oklopol> and now i just cannot remember them.
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08:53:52 <OkloThePol> i can't remember any one of my friends' birthday, even though i've put quite a lot of effort into remembering them; i do remember about 20 long passwords though, even the passwords of a few of my friends, i remember all phone numbers, and much more useless trivia though
08:54:10 <OkloThePol> though though
08:54:25 <OkloThePol> i do remember the names of my friends though, that's not as bad :)
08:55:07 -!- OkloThePol has changed nick to oklopol.
08:55:34 <oklopol> fucking mirc remembers my jokes and keeps repeating them
08:56:37 <tusho> i read really fast.
08:56:59 <tusho> i don't really remember many details post-book but I could give you a summary. it's a pleasure for while I read it, at least
08:57:19 <tusho> I also don't type anywhere near the speed at which I can for some reason.
08:57:25 <oerjan> must be a sign of .. erm
08:59:02 <oklopol> i don't read books where it's useful to give summaries
08:59:12 <oklopol> i guess that's one reason why i read slow, i don't read fiction
09:02:44 <AnMaster> Deewiant, now I'm around
09:03:01 <AnMaster> <Deewiant> well, with a lot of hacking (removing the mmap check as well as a bunch of fingerprints) I managed to get cfunge to compile under cygwin
09:03:01 <AnMaster> <Deewiant> crashes in o:
09:03:01 <AnMaster> <Deewiant> Trying to write to it with o...
09:03:01 <AnMaster> <Deewiant> Segmentation fault (core dumped)
09:03:02 <AnMaster> <Deewiant> guess that testing cfunge is for tomorrow then
09:03:05 <AnMaster> got a backtrace?
09:03:39 <AnMaster> it works perfectly under Linux, FreeBSD and Mac OS X
09:03:42 <AnMaster> I know that
09:06:42 <AnMaster> and well those changes you made, they could have caused the issue, potentially
09:08:21 <Deewiant> how do I get a backtrace
09:09:00 <AnMaster> you got gdb?
09:09:05 <Deewiant> yes
09:09:23 <AnMaster> gdb --args path/to/cfunge path/to/mycology.b98
09:09:40 <AnMaster> type "r" (without quotes) to run the program
09:09:50 <AnMaster> wait till it crashes and you get a gdb prompt
09:09:54 <AnMaster> then type:
09:09:56 <AnMaster> bt
09:10:02 <Deewiant> useless stacktrace
09:10:08 <AnMaster> Deewiant, useless as in?
09:10:13 <Deewiant> as in, useless
09:10:17 <Deewiant> I can paste it for you
09:10:20 <AnMaster> you mean lot of question marks?
09:10:25 <AnMaster> did you build with debug info?
09:10:40 <Deewiant> I just did "cmake . -G 'Unix Makefiles'"
09:10:44 <AnMaster> DEBUG for build type in cmake
09:11:05 <AnMaster> -DCMAKE_BUILD_TYPE=DEBUG
09:12:12 <AnMaster> try that Deewiant :)
09:12:18 <Deewiant> the other question I had was how to remove fingerprints from the build
09:12:19 <tusho> Deewiant: i wanna contribute a ccbi patch, are there any neat fingerprints i could implement for ccbi2?
09:12:41 <Deewiant> I went hacking in the CMake-generated makefiles to do it
09:12:51 <Deewiant> but surely there's an easy way
09:13:18 <AnMaster> Deewiant, remove the directory and rerun tools/gen_fprint_list.sh
09:13:21 <Deewiant> tusho: I don't know about "neat", but sure, there's a bunch of stuff of RC/Funge's that I haven't done
09:13:25 <AnMaster> to rebuild fingerprints.h
09:13:32 <Deewiant> remove what directory
09:13:38 <tusho> Deewiant: yay. any up-to-date ccbi2 source tarballs?
09:13:41 <AnMaster> Deewiant, src/fingerprints/FILE or whatever
09:13:52 <AnMaster> and the file src/fingerprints/FILE.spec
09:14:04 <Deewiant> tusho: would be kinda pointless as the fingerprint stuff isn't done in ccbi2 (currently blocked on a compiler bug indefinitely)
09:14:13 <tusho> Deewiant: ouch. what's the bug?
09:14:15 <tusho> any hacky workarounds?
09:14:18 <Deewiant> none
09:14:25 <Deewiant> I already have dozens of bug workarounds in my code
09:14:29 <Deewiant> couldn't think of one for this
09:14:34 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I didn't have any need to disable some in an easy way. sorry
09:14:35 <tusho> Deewiant: what's the bug?
09:14:48 <Deewiant> http://d.puremagic.com/issues/show_bug.cgi?id=2339
09:15:09 <AnMaster> Deewiant, anyway got any useful stack trace now?
09:15:21 <Deewiant> AnMaster: I am removing fingerprints so that I can get this to build
09:15:26 <AnMaster> Deewiant, ah
09:16:01 <tusho> Deewiant: couldn't you like, restructure how your stuff works and sacrifice neatness for workingness
09:16:01 <tusho> :P
09:16:09 <tusho> mixin magic is nice, but when it doesn't work...
09:16:13 <Deewiant> tusho: that was 1.0
09:16:14 <AnMaster> tusho, you mean make it work like ccbi 1?
09:16:22 <tusho> true. :p
09:16:30 <tusho> Deewiant: write it in something else. =P
09:17:41 <AnMaster> Deewiant, but I don't have too high hopes for this since I know cygwin's gdb can be whacky, and you said you edited funge-space.c to remove mmap... well that is where the actually file writing happens too, though that bit doesn't use mmap()
09:20:06 <Deewiant> AnMaster: no help anyway
09:20:07 <Deewiant> http://rafb.net/p/fzo95417.html
09:20:52 <AnMaster> Deewiant, yeah, cygwin's gdb is whacky, not much I can do except note that using locally changed source is unsupported :/
09:20:59 <tusho> ues
09:21:00 <tusho> yes
09:21:03 <tusho> you cannot get paid phone support
09:21:11 <tusho> or use any of the Unofficial cfunge Community Support Channels
09:21:23 <tusho> for assistance with The Product.
09:21:28 <tusho> (As specified by the EULA.)
09:21:31 <AnMaster> tusho, very funny, but point is I need a good backtrace to be able to debug it
09:21:44 <AnMaster> and eula is GPL so *shrug*
09:21:51 <tusho> AnMaster: so you need a backtrace to do it but you won't do it anyway as it was locally changed?
09:21:52 <tusho> i see.
09:21:58 <AnMaster> tusho, the backtrace is broken
09:22:01 <tusho> "give me a backtrace then proceed to watch me do nothing with it!"
09:22:10 <AnMaster> and I would help if there was a good backtrace
09:22:15 <AnMaster> even if it was locally changed
09:22:18 <tusho> ...contradicting what you just said
09:22:50 <AnMaster> but, now that it is locally changed and there is no good backtrace... well hard to debug, hard to reproduce
09:23:06 <AnMaster> Deewiant, if you got a diff of your local changes I could take a look at them
09:24:29 <AnMaster> if I could reproduce a bug with that here maybe I could help you make it work
09:24:37 <Deewiant> AnMaster: just defining M_PI somewhere where it wasn't, removing the check for _POSIX_mmap_works or whatever, and removing 3DSP,FIXP,PERL,REXP,TERM
09:25:03 <AnMaster> Deewiant, so you use mmap() still? just removing the sanity check for it?
09:25:07 <Deewiant> yes
09:25:27 <Deewiant> not like I'm going to rewrite your file loading code to get it to work :-P
09:25:48 <AnMaster> Deewiant, then I'm totally lost. If you had removed mmap() and replaced it with something else then I could see that something could have caused it... but... now, huh?
09:26:03 <Deewiant> I don't know
09:26:12 <AnMaster> as for where was M_PI not defined?
09:26:18 <Deewiant> can't remember, somewhere
09:26:21 <AnMaster> here math.h define it
09:26:22 <AnMaster> so :/
09:26:32 <Deewiant> not in cygwin evidently
09:26:42 <AnMaster> Deewiant, think that is due to windows in fact
09:26:47 <AnMaster> anyway will take a look at that
09:26:52 <Deewiant> yes, it is
09:27:21 <AnMaster> TURT.c I guess
09:28:19 <AnMaster> Deewiant, but the bug you describe doesn't happen on any OS I have access to, so I'm sad to say that I'm unable to reproduce it :/
09:28:33 <AnMaster> hard to see what I could do :/
09:29:28 <AnMaster> Deewiant, you could run with -S to drop =, o and i
09:29:32 <AnMaster> but...
09:29:51 <AnMaster> Deewiant, as for PERL, why wouldn't it work under cygwin?
09:29:56 <AnMaster> cygwin does have fork()
09:30:38 <tusho> AnMaster: Is this where I get revenge for you whining about my blog design?
09:30:43 <Deewiant> AnMaster: link error to __Exit
09:30:43 <tusho> AnMaster: Portability!!!!!!
09:30:51 <tusho> POOOOOOOOORTABILITY
09:30:57 <AnMaster> Deewiant, ah
09:31:06 <tusho> oh wait, you're portable to anything that supports C99 and POSIX right?
09:31:18 <tusho> my design is portable to anything that supports CSS2 and some elements of CSS3.
09:31:25 <tusho> it works without the CSS3 stuff too.
09:31:26 <AnMaster> tusho, well that is fine
09:31:32 <AnMaster> if you say that in the README :P
09:31:45 <AnMaster> I make sure to not use GCC or glibc extensions
09:31:46 <tusho> AnMaster: but 100% standards compliance is universal!
09:31:47 <AnMaster> and so on
09:31:53 <tusho> is it not?! you are shattering my world here
09:32:05 <AnMaster> tusho, no it isn't, I never claimed to work on Mac OS 7
09:32:24 <tusho> Deewiant: does ccbi run on macos7
09:32:34 <Deewiant> tusho: haven't seen anyone try
09:32:34 <AnMaster> Deewiant, does cygwin have _exit() then?
09:32:36 <Deewiant> in theory, why not
09:32:39 <AnMaster> if it doesn't have _Exit()
09:32:42 <Deewiant> AnMaster: I don't know
09:33:09 <tusho> Deewiant: what, but everyone who asks about something is an expert on it.[1][2]
09:33:09 <tusho> References
09:33:09 <tusho> ---------------
09:33:10 <tusho> [1]: ais523
09:33:10 <tusho> [2]: tusho
09:33:12 <AnMaster> NAME
09:33:12 <AnMaster>        _exit, _Exit - terminate the calling process
09:33:15 <AnMaster> CONFORMING TO
09:33:15 <AnMaster>        SVr4, POSIX.1-2001, 4.3BSD.  The function _Exit() was introduced by C99.
09:33:15 <tusho> okay, I'll stop irritating AnMaster now
09:33:25 <tusho> wait no i won't
09:33:37 <tusho> AnMaster: but you just said that standards-compliance wasn't universal...
09:33:39 <AnMaster> so replacing it with _exit() could work
09:33:48 <tusho> so why are you citing one
09:33:50 <AnMaster> tusho, that is sadly the truth
09:33:57 <AnMaster> tusho, I'm saying that you could use either
09:34:11 <AnMaster> if you want it to work under cygwin
09:34:53 <tusho> okay well i said that before you said that.
09:34:54 <tusho> type faster :p
09:34:56 <AnMaster> Deewiant, anyway, o uses normal file streams so I'm not sure what is the cause of stuff going wrong there. I'm unable to reproduce that type of error
09:35:37 <AnMaster> Deewiant, cygwin use / not \ right?
09:35:59 <Deewiant> tusho: if you really want to implement stuff for ccbi you can do it against the current version and I can update it myself for version 2 later
09:36:06 <Deewiant> AnMaster: yes, of course
09:36:09 <tusho> Deewiant: alright. any juicy fingerprints?
09:36:12 <Deewiant> and Windows NT supports / as well anyway
09:36:23 <tusho> i don't know a good list of them, so
09:36:28 <tusho> and i think rcfunge98.com is down
09:36:34 <Deewiant> it isn't
09:36:34 <tusho> ah
09:36:35 <tusho> 'sback
09:36:36 <Deewiant> not for me, anyway
09:36:57 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well, I got no idea what could be wrong, if I had a bugzilla I would probably close with "WORKSFORME" or "NEEDMOREINFO" at this point :(
09:37:36 <Deewiant> tusho: EXEC, FING, LONG, MACR, SETS, STCK, TRGR, from a quick look
09:37:45 <tusho> EXEC sounds sexalicious.
09:37:47 * tusho checks
09:37:56 <AnMaster> tusho, EXEC is just "variations of k in C maj"
09:38:07 <AnMaster> ;P
09:38:11 <tusho> ah. not very interesting from the looks either
09:38:14 <Deewiant> tusho: you want to clone a mercurial branch to play with?
09:38:22 <tusho> Deewiant: oh, sure
09:38:30 <tusho> i was just going to sync the tarball manually with git but that sounds better :^)
09:38:47 <AnMaster> Deewiant, if you manage to get an usable backtrace, or even better a nice patch, then I shall handle fix it as fast as I can (probably the weekend after)
09:38:58 <Deewiant> tusho: hg clone http://tar.us.to:8000/ should work
09:38:58 <AnMaster> until then: NEEDMOREINFO and WORKSFORME
09:39:00 <AnMaster> :(
09:39:07 <tusho> AnMaster: it works for you on cygwin?
09:39:11 <tusho> the problem is "doesn't work on cygwin"
09:39:14 <AnMaster> tusho, I don't have cygwin
09:39:15 <tusho> WORKSFORME is inappropriate.
09:39:21 <tusho> because you haven't even tested
09:39:33 <AnMaster> tusho, right, NEEDMOREINFO LACKNEEDEDRESOURCESTOTESTONCYGWIN
09:39:37 <Deewiant> I agree, more like NEEDMOREINFO or WONTFIX
09:39:46 <AnMaster> Deewiant, WILLFIXWITHMOREINFO
09:39:49 <tusho> AnMaster: couldn't you, ahh, just run qemu..
09:39:59 <AnMaster> tusho, I don't have any windows cd or license
09:40:04 <tusho> AnMaster: pirate it.
09:40:11 <AnMaster> tusho, I don't do that...
09:40:35 <AnMaster> I don't break the law like that
09:40:36 <tusho> AnMaster: is windows worth the money it costs.
09:40:36 <AnMaster> really
09:40:39 <tusho> :p
09:40:43 <AnMaster> tusho, no, but I don't break the law
09:40:47 <tusho> Deewiant: operation timed out
09:40:58 <AnMaster> Deewiant, same as tusho here
09:41:02 <Deewiant> meh
09:41:02 <tusho> AnMaster: ok, i'll call you back post-copyright-reform. :D
09:41:15 <AnMaster> tusho, hm?
09:41:28 <tusho> Deewiant: any other location for the repo?
09:41:29 <tusho> i guess not
09:41:44 <Deewiant> tusho: I can give you the IP address instead or you can wait while I update the DNS record :-)
09:41:56 <AnMaster> Deewiant, ip is fine
09:41:58 <tusho> Deewiant: that sounds nice
09:42:02 <Deewiant> 88.114.230.95
09:42:16 <Deewiant> alright, somebody worked
09:42:20 <AnMaster> me
09:42:22 <tusho> me
09:42:24 <AnMaster> I did a clone
09:42:24 <Deewiant> and tusho as well
09:42:37 <tusho> oh, STCK looks incredibly trivial
09:42:38 <tusho> i'll do that
09:42:42 <Deewiant> heh
09:42:44 <AnMaster> not that I can build it due to gdc and tango mess
09:43:08 <tusho> Deewiant: can i install rebuild with dsss?
09:43:09 <tusho> :P
09:43:10 <Deewiant> just get DMD, what's so wrong with that :-P
09:43:16 <Deewiant> tusho: rebuild is part of dsss
09:43:20 <tusho> Deewiant: oh
09:43:22 <Deewiant> if you have dsss, you have rebuild
09:43:23 <tusho> i don't have dsss, it seems
09:43:24 <tusho> lulz
09:43:26 <Deewiant> heh
09:43:41 <AnMaster> Deewiant, anyway as it stands now: cygwin is unsupported and NEEDMOREINFO | CANTFIXCURRENTLY
09:44:01 <tusho> # dsss-0.75-gdc-mac-10.4.dmg <-- oh yeah baby
09:44:03 <tusho> i hated compiling dsss
09:44:18 <AnMaster> so cygwin issues is not valid for mycology results page
09:44:25 <tusho> http://dsss.codu.org/ wow, gregorr uses the cherokee http server
09:44:25 <AnMaster> since I don't currently support cygwin
09:44:29 <AnMaster> however I accept patches
09:44:32 <tusho> that's...even more obscure than nginx and lighttpd.
09:44:37 <AnMaster> and good backtraces
09:44:37 <tusho> and thttpd.
09:45:07 <AnMaster> tusho, agreed, I used both lighttpd and thttpd (and apache of course)
09:45:15 <AnMaster> I heard about nginx
09:45:20 <AnMaster> but cherokee? huh?
09:45:29 <tusho> cherokee looks like a neat project but meh
09:45:36 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | OK.
09:45:39 <tusho> it seems neat but ... no reason to switch atm i think
09:45:55 <Deewiant> AnMaster: the problem is cf_putc_unlocked
09:45:59 <Deewiant> fputc works fine
09:46:02 <tusho> rutian uses apache 'cause it's easy to spread out domains in different directories (the way we do it is: domain X administered by user Y goes in ~Y/www/X)
09:46:08 <tusho> and it has Passangers and nifty stuff
09:46:27 <AnMaster> Deewiant, interesting. I do call the needed locking and unlocking functions before and after
09:46:39 <AnMaster> Deewiant, you should probably report this bug to the cygwin project I suspect
09:46:53 <tusho> rutian is a pretty nifty little machine.
09:46:54 <AnMaster> for now if you give me some thing to ifdef on I can work around it for cygwin
09:46:56 <tusho> nicely organized and such
09:46:58 <AnMaster> Deewiant, :)
09:47:09 <tusho> and always zippy
09:47:33 <tusho> % rebuild -rfccbi.rf
09:47:33 <tusho> ccbi.d(13): module Exception cannot read file 'tango/core/Exception.d'
09:47:39 <tusho> what's the dsss command to tangoify again
09:47:47 <Deewiant> beats me, I don't use dsss
09:47:51 <AnMaster> Deewiant, #ifdef what? to detect cygwin?
09:47:57 <tusho> Deewiant: To make things easiest, get Rebuild and run rebuild -rfccbi.rf, passing any other options you wish (e.g. for optimization, -O -inline -release). If not, you’ll need to manually pass each source file to the compiler.
09:48:10 <Deewiant> tusho: you don't have tango
09:48:20 <tusho> Deewiant: i know
09:48:26 <tusho> but there's a dsss command to download&install tango
09:48:29 <Deewiant> so why paste that :-P
09:48:32 <Deewiant> dsss net install tango?
09:48:34 <tusho> ah
09:48:38 <AnMaster> #  define cf_putc_unlocked(x, y)           putc_unlocked((x), (y))
09:48:38 <AnMaster> or
09:48:41 <AnMaster> #  define cf_putc_unlocked(x, y)           putc((x), (y))
09:48:42 <AnMaster> Deewiant, ^
09:48:53 <AnMaster> depending on if the system claims to support unlocked IO
09:49:13 <AnMaster> so does normal putc, not fputc work?
09:49:15 <tusho> Deewiant: are those gdc problems still relevant
09:49:22 <AnMaster>        fputc() writes the character c, cast to an unsigned char, to stream.
09:49:22 <Deewiant> tusho: probably yes
09:49:23 <AnMaster>        putc() is equivalent to fputc() except that it may be implemented as a macro which evaluates stream more than once.
09:49:26 <Deewiant> GDC hasn't been updated in ages
09:49:27 <tusho> Deewiant: i can't use dmd on os x :\
09:49:46 <Deewiant> tusho: well, like said, it's fine as long as you don't use 'o' :-P
09:49:49 <tusho> lib/common/tango/core/Exception.d:71: internal compiler error: Abort trap
09:49:51 <AnMaster> Deewiant, anyway, give me something to #ifdef on and I shall special case cygwin
09:49:54 <tusho> /opt/local/var/db/dports/build/_opt_local_var_db_dports_sources_rsync.rsync.darwinports.org_dpupdate_dports_lang_gdc/work/gcc-4.1.2/gcc/d/dmd/toobj.c:417: failed assertion `classinfo->structsize == CLASSINFO_SIZE'
09:49:54 <tusho> lib/common/tango/core/Exception.d:71: internal compiler error: Abort trap
09:49:56 <tusho> the fuckkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk
09:50:03 <Deewiant> tusho: yeah, hooray for GDC
09:50:12 <tusho> ah:
09:50:12 <tusho> gdc (GCC) 4.1.2 20070214 (  (gdc 0.23, using dmd 1.007))
09:50:12 <tusho> Copyright (C) 2006 Free Software Foundation, Inc.
09:50:13 <Deewiant> tusho: do you have the latest SVN?
09:50:17 <tusho> I AM EVER SO SLIGHTLY OUT OF DATE
09:50:17 <Deewiant> evidently not
09:50:36 <AnMaster> tusho, surely that is bad, you must of course use the last! ;P
09:50:46 <AnMaster> tusho, use cvs head of your glibc!
09:50:48 * AnMaster ducks
09:51:01 <tusho> AnMaster: django is worse
09:51:09 <tusho> well
09:51:09 <tusho> was
09:51:12 <tusho> they released 1.0 recently
09:51:13 <AnMaster> ah
09:51:18 <tusho> but before that they were on 0.96
09:51:24 <tusho> and the trunk was like 3 major releases ahead
09:51:29 <tusho> production enterprise websites used the trunk
09:51:31 <AnMaster> tusho, yes most projects tend to get a bit more stable by 1.0
09:51:38 <tusho> and the actual experimental development was on other branches scattered about
09:51:59 <tusho> Deewiant: will i have to reinstall dsss for the new gdc
09:52:01 <Deewiant> AnMaster: I can't reproduce it trivially
09:52:04 <Deewiant> tusho: I don't know
09:52:07 <tusho> Deewiant: :D
09:52:20 <Deewiant> probably not
09:52:24 <AnMaster> Deewiant, hm... well give me an #ifdef for cygwin then, and I shall use normal putc for it
09:52:32 <tusho> i hope gdc compiles easy...
09:52:33 <AnMaster> unless it needs fputc not putc?
09:52:53 <tusho> http://sourceforge.net/projects/gdcmac
09:52:55 <tusho> june 1 2008
09:52:58 <tusho> woop woop
09:53:43 <AnMaster> Deewiant, other places in the code also use these functions so... well I need *something to use in #ifdef to detect cygwin*
09:54:02 <AnMaster> Deewiant, want the GCC command to list predefined #defines?
09:54:22 <AnMaster> echo | gcc -std=c99 -E -x c -dM - -o -
09:54:38 <AnMaster> see if there is anything about cygwin there
09:54:41 <Deewiant> outputs nothing :-D
09:54:48 <tusho> #ifdef _CYGWIN_
09:54:49 <tusho> i think...
09:54:49 <AnMaster> ok that's strange....
09:54:51 <tusho> osmething like that
09:55:00 <Deewiant> but yeah, __CYGWIN__
09:55:03 <AnMaster> right
09:55:54 <AnMaster> Deewiant, support.h, line 138
09:55:58 <AnMaster> change it to
09:56:01 <AnMaster> #if !defined(__CYGWIN__) && defined(_POSIX_THREAD_SAFE_FUNCTIONS) && (_POSIX_THREAD_SAFE_FUNCTIONS > 0)
09:56:09 <Deewiant> AnMaster: btw, easier, echo | cpp -dM
09:56:12 <AnMaster> that is, add "!defined(__CYGWIN__) &&"
09:56:15 <tusho> Deewiant: what the fuck i have to switch gcc for gdc?
09:56:22 <Deewiant> tusho: ?
09:56:32 <AnMaster> Deewiant, hm ok
09:56:40 <tusho> Deewiant: i hate how gcc language stuff requires compiling another gcc
09:56:44 <tusho> instead of plugging it into your existing one
09:56:49 <Deewiant> ah, yes, quite
09:57:02 <tusho> is there a dmd for os x yet...
09:57:04 <tusho> goddamn
09:57:06 <tusho> no.
09:57:07 <Deewiant> doubtful
09:57:18 <tusho> this was easy the last time i did it
09:57:18 <tusho> :|
09:57:53 <Deewiant> AnMaster: btw, I get many warnings building cfunge
09:57:59 <AnMaster> Deewiant, like?
09:58:04 <Deewiant> mostly implicit declarations
09:58:11 <Deewiant> and "warning: #warning is a GCC extension"
09:58:13 <AnMaster> Deewiant, hm, I do include all headers I think
09:58:23 <AnMaster> Deewiant, oh right.. that one
09:58:28 <Deewiant> also redundant redeclarations
09:58:33 <AnMaster> Deewiant, like?
09:58:33 <tusho> warning: warning: warning: warning: warning: warning: warning: warning: warning: warning: warning: warning: warning: warning: warning: warning: warning: warning: warning: warning: warning: warning: warning: warning: warning: warning: warning: warning: warning: warning: warning: warning: warning: warning: warning: warning: warning: warning: warning: warning: stack overflow
09:58:34 <Deewiant> and nested extern declarations
09:58:38 <AnMaster> care to pastebin some
09:59:06 <AnMaster> Deewiant, because I suspect many of those are in system headers, since cfunge turns on lots of warnings, that could lead to warnings about stuff in system headers
09:59:40 <AnMaster> I certainly don't get those warnings here you see
09:59:56 <AnMaster> I get *two* warnings, both in genx that tusho recommended
09:59:58 <Deewiant> baah, the paste broke, http://rafb.net/p/RMegHR33.html
10:00:17 <tusho> AnMaster: oooh so sorrrryyy!
10:00:21 <AnMaster> wow. cool breakage
10:00:25 <AnMaster> of the pastye
10:00:27 <AnMaster> paste*
10:00:28 <Deewiant> I resized the window
10:00:38 <Deewiant> and expected that it wouldn't break copying from it
10:00:41 <Deewiant> evidently I was wrong
10:00:57 <Deewiant> I'll just redirect make to a file
10:01:01 <AnMaster> D:/Progging/funge/others/cfunge-0.3.1/src/fingerprints/TURT/TURT.c: In function                                                                     `GenerateCircle':
10:01:01 <AnMaster> D:/Progging/funge/others/cfunge-0.3.1/src/fingerprints/TURT/TURT.c:475: warning:                                                                     nested extern declaration of `snprintf'
10:01:01 <AnMaster> <internal>:0: warning: redundant redeclaration of 'snprintf'
10:01:07 <AnMaster> to me, that makes no sense
10:01:13 <AnMaster> I do include the right header before
10:01:28 <AnMaster> so how could it be nested extern decl
10:01:51 <AnMaster> and if it was, it couldn't be redundant redeclaration
10:02:14 <AnMaster> those two warnings are mutually exclusive
10:02:27 <AnMaster> at least if you trust what the gcc man page says about them
10:02:58 <AnMaster> Deewiant, somehow I suspect cygwin is doing something strange that breaks when you turn on lots of warning flags in GCC
10:03:23 <Deewiant> more legible: http://rafb.net/p/RPxTt679.html
10:03:52 <AnMaster> Deewiant, lets see here:
10:03:53 <AnMaster> D:/Progging/funge/others/cfunge-0.3.1/lib/genx/genx.c: In function `storePrefix':
10:03:53 <AnMaster> D:/Progging/funge/others/cfunge-0.3.1/lib/genx/genx.c:345: warning: implicit declaration of function `snprintf'
10:03:53 <AnMaster> D:/Progging/funge/others/cfunge-0.3.1/lib/genx/genx.c:345: warning: nested extern declaration of `snprintf'
10:03:53 <AnMaster> <internal>:0: warning: redundant redeclaration of 'snprintf'
10:04:02 <Deewiant> I don't know, I'm just reporting
10:04:02 <AnMaster> doesn't that seem rather strange to you?
10:04:10 <AnMaster> just lets see if you agree with me
10:04:10 <Deewiant> I don't know what "nested extern" means
10:04:15 <AnMaster> Deewiant, means putting:
10:04:19 <AnMaster> extern foo();
10:04:22 <AnMaster> inside a function
10:04:35 <Deewiant> yeah, so snprintf is probably a macro
10:05:11 <AnMaster> Deewiant, it would also happen if you haven't included the right header. *but* I do include the right header. and it can't also be "redundant redeclaration" then
10:05:21 <AnMaster> some of those warnings are mutually exclusive
10:05:56 <AnMaster> snprintf needs #include <stdio.h>
10:05:59 <AnMaster> according to man page
10:06:03 <Deewiant> AnMaster: some SOCK/SCKE fails in mycology
10:06:04 <tusho> i talk in a row a lot
10:06:08 <tusho> i wonder if it annoys anyone
10:06:13 <tusho> does it annoy any of you?
10:06:14 <AnMaster> Deewiant, not here hm
10:06:19 <tusho> i've gone 10-15 interrupted i think
10:06:21 <AnMaster> Deewiant, with what does it fail on cygwin?
10:06:23 <tusho> average 3-4
10:06:24 <Deewiant> BAD: couldn't close original socket with K
10:06:29 <Deewiant> and then in SCKE
10:06:29 <Deewiant> BAD: need working B to test P
10:06:49 <AnMaster> Deewiant, oh? that's odd... let me see
10:07:04 <AnMaster> if (shutdown(sockets[s]->fd, SHUT_RDWR) == -1) {
10:07:04 <AnMaster> goto error;
10:07:04 <AnMaster> }
10:07:09 <Deewiant> AnMaster: what Mycology version do you have?
10:07:09 <AnMaster> if (close(sockets[s]->fd) == -1) {
10:07:09 <AnMaster> goto error;
10:07:09 <AnMaster> }
10:07:42 <AnMaster> Deewiant, the one after you fixed the lock up in rc/funge and cfunge
10:07:49 <Deewiant> so what version
10:07:56 <AnMaster> Deewiant, where does it say?
10:08:03 <Deewiant> just the latest date in readme.txt
10:08:07 <AnMaster> a sec
10:08:25 <AnMaster>         2008-08-30    - Fixed the case where SCKE is included in SOCK.
10:08:33 <Deewiant> alright
10:08:38 <AnMaster> too old?
10:08:42 <Deewiant> new enough
10:08:50 <Deewiant> newest released, I think
10:09:42 <AnMaster> Deewiant, src/fingerprints/SOCK/SOCK.c, try adding something perror("K failed:" in FingerSOCKkill() after line 252
10:09:47 <AnMaster> error:
10:09:47 <AnMaster> FreeHandle(s);
10:09:49 <AnMaster> between those lines
10:09:50 <AnMaster> that is
10:10:12 <AnMaster> would say what went wrong at least with K
10:10:51 <AnMaster> oh and you have to add an include for stdio.h too to that file Deewiant
10:11:09 <Deewiant> K failed:: Transport endpoint is not connected
10:11:40 <AnMaster> hm
10:12:07 <AnMaster> Deewiant, ok, that's strange... you see there is both a shutdown() and a close() call above
10:12:16 <Deewiant> B failed:: Address already in use
10:12:24 <AnMaster> Deewiant, try adding some code to print to see which of those that fails
10:12:26 <Deewiant> that makes sense, because the K failed
10:12:33 <AnMaster> yes sure does
10:13:08 <AnMaster> possibly something doesn't like shutdown on a socket that didn't connect
10:13:08 <Deewiant> AnMaster: shutdown fails
10:13:22 <AnMaster> Deewiant, try to make it keep going to close after shutdown instead
10:13:30 <AnMaster> I think that may be the bug
10:13:52 <AnMaster> so just remove the if bit over shutdown
10:13:59 <AnMaster> and ignore the return value of shutdown()
10:14:00 <Deewiant> works fine if I comment out the goto error after shutdown
10:14:31 <Deewiant> AnMaster: like the man page says
10:14:31 <Deewiant> ENOTCONN
10:14:32 <Deewiant>     The specified socket is not connected.
10:14:37 <AnMaster> Deewiant, right, *fixes that*, seems like linux, *bsd and OS X accepts shutdown on a non-connected socket though
10:14:41 <AnMaster> since it doesn't fail here
10:14:47 * AnMaster fixes
10:14:51 <Deewiant> so it looks like cygwin is more POSIX-compliant here ;-)
10:15:03 <AnMaster> Deewiant, and yes I fixed it locally, will commit soon
10:15:12 <tusho> pwnt
10:15:14 <tusho> :D
10:15:18 <AnMaster> tusho, not really
10:15:28 <AnMaster> if it is possible to track down a bug I'm fine with doing so
10:15:33 <tusho> AnMaster: note the ":D"
10:15:55 <Deewiant> AnMaster: append a "&& errno != ENOTCONN" or what?
10:15:59 <Deewiant> or just call the close always
10:16:21 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I'm looking at man page atm
10:16:34 <AnMaster> just calling close anyway probably
10:17:09 <AnMaster> EBADF, ENOTCONN and ENOTSOCK will not cause any kind of horrible failure as far as I can see
10:17:49 <Deewiant> well whatever, that's that
10:18:34 <AnMaster> Deewiant, right. and what about the compile failure in 3DSP? Any idea of cause?
10:18:55 <Deewiant> I think it was *l functions being used
10:18:57 <Deewiant> sinl etc
10:19:03 <Deewiant> link errors resulted
10:19:18 <AnMaster> Deewiant, ah it doesn't implement those?
10:19:29 <Deewiant> evidently not if they don't link
10:19:50 <AnMaster> well, they are part of C99. But since older FreeBSD also miss them I was planning to add some sort of detection and fallback to non-l versions
10:19:57 <AnMaster> so that will be in next version too
10:21:49 <tusho> "We are happy to announce that W3C has integrated a version of HTML 5 conformance checker into a beta instance of the W3C Markup validator. That will help us to detect bugs, improve the user interface, and benefit from the large W3C communities"
10:21:50 <tusho> woop woop
10:22:47 <Deewiant> oh, nice
10:23:17 <tusho> http://qa-dev.w3.org/wmvs/HEAD/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Feso-std.org%2F&charset=(detect+automatically)&doctype=Inline&group=0
10:23:18 <tusho> woop woop
10:23:29 <tusho> no ugly button yet, though :P
10:24:35 <AnMaster> Deewiant, ok, those fixes are in, the l vs. non-l math ones will probably be done later today
10:24:48 <AnMaster> Deewiant, anyway now you can put that on the mycology results page :)
10:25:02 <tusho> today I think I will finally buy tusho.net
10:25:11 <tusho> and go "woop woop" again
10:25:17 <AnMaster> Deewiant, these were in r406. btw
10:25:21 <AnMaster> trunk
10:25:58 <AnMaster> revision-id: anmaster@envbot.org-20080907092316-eczkdchbs861mm1s
10:26:43 -!- oerjan has quit ("meep meep").
10:26:48 <Deewiant> AnMaster: nah, I need to run it in an environment where everything works
10:27:11 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well, some of those you may never be able to get working under cygwin
10:27:16 <AnMaster> at least some of the fingerprints
10:27:23 <Deewiant> exactly, so I need to run it on a linux machine
10:27:29 <AnMaster> right
10:27:31 <Deewiant> just like RC/Funge, so that I can get TURT results
10:27:58 <AnMaster> Deewiant, what ones was it you had disabled on cygwin now again?
10:28:16 <Deewiant> can't remember, see the scrollback
10:28:45 <AnMaster> 3DSP,FIXP,PERL,REXP,TERM right
10:29:17 <AnMaster> 3DSP, FIXP, well those use sinl and such. PERL was _Exit. REXP and TERM.... not sure what could go wrong on cygwin in those
10:31:12 <AnMaster> actually, 3DSP does not use sinl?
10:32:00 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I'm at loss what was the issue in 3DSP
10:32:48 -!- Judofyr has joined.
10:33:10 <tusho> ok wtf happened to http://eso-std.org/ :|
10:33:32 <AnMaster> Parse error: syntax error, unexpected T_STRING, expecting ';' in /home/tusho/www/eso-std.org/user/themes/tusho-blogs/header.php on line 1
10:33:38 <AnMaster> looks like a php error
10:33:45 <tusho> thank you AnMaster, I kind of knew that.
10:33:49 <tusho> :|
10:33:56 * AnMaster is now known as CaptainObvious
10:34:31 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("Jesus loves you").
10:34:33 <AnMaster> tusho, possibly: echo $a "foo" could cause it, that is a missing . between variable and string
10:34:49 <tusho> nope, no concatenation going on here
10:34:51 <tusho> it's just a template file
10:34:53 <tusho> not a code file
10:34:57 <tusho> so just simple function calls and loops etc
10:35:09 <tusho> here, I can even paste the whole thing
10:35:31 <tusho> (the reason it is 1 line is because I automatically compact it before uploading, probably a placebo but it feels more compact... might stop doing that :P)
10:35:33 <tusho> <?php if (!defined('HABARI_PATH' )) { die;} ?><!DOCTYPE html><html lang="en"><head><title><?php if ($request->display_entry && isset($post)) { echo $post->title;} else { Options::out('title');} ?></title><link rel="alternate" type="application/atom+xml" title="Feed" href="<?php $theme->feed_alternate();?>"><link rel="stylesheet" media="screen" href="<?php Site::out_url('theme');?>/style.css"></head><body><div id="header"><h1><a href="<?php Site::out_url('haba
10:35:39 <tusho> did that get through
10:35:41 <tusho> if not, where was it cut off
10:35:56 <AnMaster> tusho, where on that line
10:36:01 <tusho> AnMaster: did it get cut off
10:36:02 <AnMaster> <?php Site::out_url('hab
10:36:04 <AnMaster> was the end
10:36:07 <AnMaster> however
10:36:11 <tusho> bari') ?>"><?php Options::out('title') ?></a></h1><nav><ul><?php for ($page in $pages) { ?><li><a href="<?php echo $page->permalink ?>"><?php echo $page->title_out ?></a></li><?php } ?></ul></nav></div><section id="content">
10:36:14 <AnMaster> inserting newlines would help locate the error
10:36:21 <tusho> yes, yes it would :p
10:36:21 <AnMaster> </ul></nav></div><section id="content">
10:36:23 <AnMaster> this time
10:36:26 <tusho> yes
10:36:28 <tusho> that's the full thing then
10:36:31 <tusho> anyway
10:36:35 <tusho> I have a non-compacted version here
10:36:39 <tusho> and no obvious causes for the error
10:36:44 <AnMaster> anyway, try the non-compacted one on server
10:36:48 <AnMaster> see what line it fails on
10:36:54 <tusho> yea probably a good idea
10:36:59 <oklopol> site::out_url() doesn't have a ";", does the next statement just concatenate after it with multiple <?php>'s?
10:37:31 <tusho> no
10:37:41 <oklopol> right of course not that would make no sense
10:37:51 <tusho> oh
10:37:53 <tusho> duh
10:37:53 <tusho>       <?php for ($page in $pages) { ?>
10:37:59 <AnMaster> tusho, lets see, assuming \n newlines, you save 1 byte / line per file by removing newlines?
10:38:00 <tusho> should be foreach ($pages as $page)
10:38:02 <tusho> >.<
10:38:10 <tusho> AnMaster: well, no, much more
10:38:14 <tusho> since, newlines in loops duplicate
10:38:19 <tusho> and also it strips out general whitespace to
10:38:23 <AnMaster> tusho, ah. hm
10:38:27 <tusho> before the stuff was like 3 pages of lines not longer than 30 chars
10:38:34 <tusho> now it's 3 lines of ... well, a lot, but quite a bit less than before
10:38:54 <tusho> i'm gzipping the output on there too, it's still not as fast as some sites but it's very zippy compared to most
10:39:11 <tusho> and it's just a 25 line shell script to compress&upload
10:39:18 <AnMaster> tusho, for 1100 baud modems? ;)
10:39:23 <tusho> :D
10:39:28 <AnMaster> I suspect that it really doesn't matter
10:39:30 <tusho> hmm
10:39:34 <tusho> $pages isn't predefined...odd
10:39:35 <AnMaster> you are over optimising
10:39:35 <AnMaster> :P
10:39:53 <tusho> AnMaster: actually i tested it when i made that script and it was a little faster
10:39:54 <AnMaster> tusho, so if you ever claim that I am, you are just a hypocrite :P
10:39:58 <tusho> you should have seen the whitespace it generated without it
10:40:01 <tusho> i mean, literally, tons
10:40:07 <tusho> newlines and like 5 spaces in a row all over the place
10:40:11 <AnMaster> tusho, did you do profiling?
10:40:14 <tusho> it's not over-optimizing, it's making the output sane ;)
10:40:21 <tusho> AnMaster: yes. i reloaded a page and reloaded after compression.
10:40:24 <tusho> it was faster.
10:40:31 <AnMaster> tusho, how did you measure?
10:40:35 <AnMaster> by wall clock?
10:40:38 <AnMaster> by feeling?
10:40:39 <tusho> AnMaster: human perception.
10:40:39 <tusho> :)
10:40:46 <AnMaster> not very exact
10:40:48 <tusho> it's 24 lines of shell script i don't really care if it's placebo
10:40:57 <AnMaster> hahah
10:41:21 <tusho> it's just some trivial sed incantations that 1. makes the output of the templates look nicer (that whitespace abuse is really ugly) 2. save me a miniscule amount of bandwidth & make the site a miniscule amount faster & save a miniscule amount of disc
10:41:23 <tusho> *disk
10:41:30 <tusho> sounds like a good deal to me
10:42:07 <AnMaster> hehe
10:42:28 <AnMaster> tusho, and make finding cause of error a lot harder
10:42:38 <AnMaster> "Notice: Undefined variable: pages in user/themes/tusho-blogs/header.php line 1" yes
10:42:45 <tusho> uh, that one was easy
10:42:52 <tusho> i thought $pages was predefined for themes
10:42:53 <tusho> turns not
10:43:00 <tusho> AnMaster: i just have to comment out the compression
10:43:09 <AnMaster> agreed
10:43:14 <tusho> besides, the php calls are trivial that the only time i get it wrong are when i do things like that for thing
10:43:22 <tusho> because php's syntax is stupid and my brain wants it to not be :D
10:43:27 <tusho> AnMaster: i meant for debugging
10:43:36 <AnMaster> tusho, what do you think about the source of http://rage.kuonet.org/~anmaster/cfunge/
10:43:36 <AnMaster> ?
10:43:44 <tusho> AnMaster: it's xhtml 1.1
10:43:45 <tusho> :)
10:43:48 <tusho> or rather, :(
10:43:49 <AnMaster> tusho, apart from that?
10:43:57 <tusho> yeah, it's fine
10:44:08 <AnMaster> tusho, do you think it is generated or hand written?
10:44:09 <tusho> though
10:44:11 <tusho> why &quot;?
10:44:18 <tusho> AnMaster: knowing you hand written
10:44:31 <AnMaster> tusho, well hand written since it is a rather simple page
10:44:34 <AnMaster> I don't need php
10:44:36 <AnMaster> or such
10:44:39 <AnMaster> for such a siumple
10:44:48 <AnMaster> tusho, why not &quot;?
10:45:01 <tusho> AnMaster: it makes reading&editing the source more obscure and is unneeded when you coudl just use "
10:45:13 <AnMaster> hm true
10:45:13 <tusho> although " isn't a quotation mark.
10:45:19 <tusho> &ldquo; and &rdquo; are :P
10:45:40 <AnMaster> tusho, if I want good typography I would use LaTeX not html :P
10:46:18 <tusho> AnMaster: another comment on that page is that I'm not a fan of the background colour
10:46:20 <tusho> but that's it
10:46:32 <AnMaster> tusho, you mean off-white color?
10:46:38 <tusho> AnMaster: yes, it makes it harder to read the text for me
10:46:55 <AnMaster> tusho, well I need non-white since it is hard to read for some if it is white
10:47:01 <AnMaster> forgot the name of the condition
10:47:02 <tusho> AnMaster: why specify it at all
10:47:10 <tusho> those people will have it set in their preferences
10:47:24 <tusho> additionally your link colours are almost the browsers default, the only thing you really need is:
10:47:29 <tusho> <body style="font-family: sans-serif">
10:47:35 <tusho> well
10:47:41 <AnMaster> img{border:0}
10:47:41 <AnMaster> too
10:47:42 <tusho> you might want a <style> for the img { border:0}
10:47:45 <tusho> yeah
10:47:51 <tusho> then I'd just have the sans-serif and the img border thing
10:47:56 <AnMaster> tusho, anwyay I shall think about colors
10:47:59 <tusho> since the page is *almost* defaults
10:48:10 <tusho> and the conditiony people will have better defaults for themselves anyway
10:48:33 <AnMaster> tusho, your have a bg image, that is even worse then ;)
10:48:41 <tusho> AnMaster: no, I'm fine with styling
10:48:51 <AnMaster> oh?
10:48:55 <tusho> but when it's almost defaults and the reason for the most obvious non-default is so that non-accessible users get it better...
10:49:04 <tusho> then you might just wanna let the user's browser decide anyway :P
10:49:31 <AnMaster> tusho, but I want to set some colours, and if you set any you should set most according to w3c
10:49:42 <tusho> AnMaster: why do you want to set some colours
10:49:57 <AnMaster> because the default link colors are worse
10:49:59 <tusho> the only real thing you change is link hover (which doesn't really matter), and visited link(very close to the default anyway)
10:50:05 <tusho> not very noticable
10:50:24 <tusho> plus i am sure there are people who find it very hard to read lower-contrast stuff
10:50:31 <tusho> that's why it's harder, but still not very hard to read for me
10:50:35 <tusho> so you can't please everyone :^)
10:50:48 <AnMaster> indeed you can't please everyone
10:50:55 <AnMaster> so why please you ;P
10:51:05 <tusho> why please the people with that condition
10:51:12 <tusho> you can please everyone by letting them decide
10:51:16 <tusho> via their browser :P
10:51:37 <AnMaster> http://qa-dev.w3.org/wmvs/HEAD/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Feso-std.org%2F&charset=(detect+automatically)&doctype=Inline&group=0
10:51:37 <AnMaster> fails
10:51:43 <AnMaster> Error  Line 3, Column 351: Element pre not allowed as child of element ul in this context. (Suppressing further errors from this subtree.).
10:51:44 <AnMaster> …O</a></h1><nav><ul><pre class="error">
10:51:47 <tusho> yes.
10:51:49 <tusho> because of the php error.
10:51:59 <tusho> which i am about to fix.
10:52:05 <tusho> i just had to find the habari function i needed to define $pages
10:52:19 <AnMaster> http://qa-dev.w3.org/wmvs/HEAD/check?uri=http://rage.kuonet.org/~anmaster/cfunge/&charset=(detect+automatically)&doctype=Inline&group=0 <-- huh "Line 4615, Column 0: character "]" not allowed in declaration subset"
10:52:20 <AnMaster> err
10:52:25 <AnMaster> I don't have that many lines
10:52:39 <tusho> AnMaster: that's a beta version
10:52:44 <AnMaster> tusho, ah yes true
10:52:49 <tusho> weird breakage though
10:52:50 <tusho> :D
10:52:56 <AnMaster> tusho, agreed
10:53:20 <AnMaster> tusho, nor do I have the line ] anywhere
10:53:31 <AnMaster> err
10:53:32 <AnMaster> the char
10:53:36 <tusho> AnMaster: it's an error in the xhtml 1.1 dtd it uses
10:53:38 <tusho> most likely
10:53:41 <tusho> "declaration subset"
10:53:43 <AnMaster> ah sounds reasonable
10:53:46 <tusho> and ] features in dtd definitions a lot
10:53:47 <AnMaster> yeah probably
10:53:52 <tusho> and of course it's gonna be long
10:54:09 <AnMaster> Software error:
10:54:09 <AnMaster> Insecure dependency in eval while running with -T switch at /usr/local/share/perl/5.10.0/HTTP/Message.pm line 413.
10:54:09 <AnMaster> For help, please send mail to the webmaster (ot@w3.org), giving this error message and the time and date of the error.
10:54:30 <AnMaster> weird url too
10:54:31 <AnMaster> http://qa-dev.w3.org/wmvs/HEAD/check?uri=http%3A%2F%2Frage.kuonet.org%2F%7Eanmaster%2Fcfunge%2F&charset=%28detect+automatically%29&doctype=XHTML+1.0+Strict&group=0&user-agent=W3C_Validator%2F1.603
10:54:35 <AnMaster> I pressed re-validate
10:55:26 <tusho> http://eso-std.org/ whoops
10:55:26 <tusho> :D
10:55:35 <tusho> forgot to restrict it to pages only
10:55:35 <tusho> not posts
10:57:14 <tusho> hm
10:57:17 <tusho> probably in mzingi
10:57:19 * tusho checks
10:58:31 <tusho> aha
10:58:48 <tusho> Posts::get(array('content_type' => 'page', 'status' => Post::status('published')))
10:58:59 <AnMaster> php is uggly
10:58:59 <AnMaster> yes
10:59:02 <tusho> yes
10:59:08 <tusho> but habari is well-designed and coded and all that
10:59:29 <AnMaster> doesn't change that it is php
10:59:33 <tusho> ofc not
10:59:34 <tusho> :)
10:59:45 -!- kar8nga has left (?).
10:59:46 <tusho> i can understand why they picked php, though
10:59:58 <tusho> you know - the whole "most used, understood & deployed" thing :P
11:00:16 <AnMaster> sure
11:00:19 <AnMaster> except:
11:00:29 <AnMaster> "most misused, misunderstood & misdeployed"
11:00:33 <AnMaster> is what you meant
11:00:36 <tusho> whatever
11:00:41 <tusho> it doesn't matter, it works
11:00:49 <tusho> and it scales quite often.
11:00:54 <tusho> more than rails, at least
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11:03:43 <tusho> http://eso-std.org/ hmm, why is that happening...
11:04:56 <tusho> http://www.css3.info/preview/box-shadow/ i'd so use this for the menu bar if ff3 supported it. :p
11:05:07 <tusho> t'would look quite neat
11:05:10 <tusho> ewll
11:05:11 <tusho> *well
11:05:15 <tusho> less exaggerated than those examples ofc
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11:08:46 <tusho> oh
11:09:12 <tusho> that's why
11:09:23 <tusho> awesomecakes
11:09:25 <tusho> it works perfectly
11:12:25 <AnMaster> tusho, hm?
11:12:50 <tusho> AnMaster: btw
11:12:53 <tusho> view the source of http://eso-std.org/
11:12:57 <tusho> i put the non-whitespace-compressed version up
11:13:01 <tusho> it is definitely noticably slower
11:13:10 <tusho> and the page code is just wasteful & ugly & silly
11:13:25 <tusho>     <a href="http://eso-std.org/experment#comments" rel="comments">
11:13:25 <tusho>             4       comments</a>.
11:17:21 <tusho> AnMaster: agreed?
11:21:10 <AnMaster> hm?
11:21:36 <AnMaster> tusho, why not use php-tidy?
11:21:41 <AnMaster> ;P
11:21:54 <tusho> AnMaster: more processing work & if i'm gonna warp it to avoid that wasteful ugly whitespace I might as well just make it tiny
11:22:05 <tusho> and it's only 24 lines of shell. less actually
11:22:06 <tusho> more like 10
11:22:10 <tusho> since it handles uploading already
11:22:24 <tusho> just counted, 8 lines
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11:44:08 <AnMaster> tusho, hm ok
11:59:15 -!- Mony has joined.
11:59:52 <Mony> hi
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12:04:50 <Mony> optbot ?
12:04:51 <optbot> Mony: ...this is too good to pass up.
12:05:06 <oklopol> optbot!
12:05:06 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | and if game designers want to keep making things more realistic without spending *billions* on each new game, it's necessary..
12:05:14 <oklopol> optbot!
12:05:15 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | right.
12:05:16 <oklopol> optbot!
12:05:17 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | Among other things, that compiler has the idea of scope. Mine has just a global scope. . ..
12:05:24 <oklopol> boring
12:05:25 <oklopol> optbot!
12:05:26 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | goedle showed that if you have a formal system(??) that is strong enough(??) there are things that aren't part of the system.. but the negation of the ting isn't part of the system either....
12:05:42 <oklopol> optbot!
12:05:43 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | hmm... actually i might be wrong about you being american.
12:05:47 <oklopol> optbot!
12:05:48 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | ...or that.
12:05:51 <oklopol> optbot!
12:05:52 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | Put it at the unicode name..
12:05:54 <oklopol> optbot!
12:05:55 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | øø.
12:06:02 <oklopol> optbot!
12:06:03 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | augur : There is one!.
12:06:16 <oklopol> okay, i'm not sure i'm satisfied with anything :)
12:06:25 <oklopol> but this is quality flood
12:06:26 <oklopol> optbot!
12:06:27 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | or rather I wrote a substantial part of that code.
12:06:31 <oklopol> optbot!
12:06:32 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | writing a whole OS in BF would be mind-boggling..
12:06:39 <oklopol> this is ok
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12:19:31 <tusho> optbot
12:19:31 <optbot> tusho: %reduce $$^x^yx^x^yx^x^yy
12:19:32 <tusho> optbot!
12:19:33 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | >>> bf ;* <<< 10.
12:19:35 <tusho> optbot!
12:19:36 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | Personally my experiences wrt. the fixability of Debian and Gentoo have been exactly the opposite, but on the other hand I haven't touched Gentoo since 2003 or so..
12:19:38 <tusho> optbot!
12:19:39 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | partly because nobody believes you until they've seen the code.
12:19:43 <tusho> optbot!
12:19:44 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | that's essentially what we need.... multiple interpreters..
12:19:48 <tusho> haha
12:19:49 <tusho> yes
12:19:51 <tusho> although
12:19:53 <tusho> i liked the preivous one
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12:45:24 <tusho> oklopol:
12:45:27 <tusho> why do you lie
12:45:28 <tusho> http://eso-std.org/why-i-ve-seen-a-goddamn-post-on-here-that-tests#comment-29
12:45:31 <tusho> clearly I am oklopol
12:49:20 <Mony> my poor duck.... with no beak :'(
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13:05:11 <Deewiant> AnMaster: for 3DSP, FP_ZERO doesn't exist
13:05:54 <AnMaster> Deewiant, hm that is in C99 specs. sorry
13:06:11 <AnMaster> and there is no other way to avoid "floating point ==" warning
13:06:36 <Deewiant> "floating point ==" warning is often stupid and wrong
13:07:24 <AnMaster> Deewiant, and this is legal C99 still
13:07:25 <AnMaster> but hm
13:07:46 <AnMaster> Deewiant, anyway did you try it on linux?
13:07:55 <Deewiant> nope
13:08:42 <AnMaster> #ifdef FP_ZERO
13:08:42 <AnMaster> if (fpclassify(v[2]) != FP_ZERO)
13:08:42 <AnMaster> #else
13:08:42 <AnMaster> if (v[2] != 0)
13:08:42 <AnMaster> #endif
13:08:44 <AnMaster> that should fix it
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13:25:55 <tusho> i am green
13:25:57 <tusho> and I power lots of machines
13:26:01 <tusho> but I am not lean, nor do I clean
13:26:09 <tusho> *machine rhymes a bit more
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13:41:02 <Deewiant> tusho: heh, still working on that GDC
13:41:09 <tusho> no
13:41:14 <tusho> just waiting for someone to give me instructions
13:41:20 <tusho> and pretending to be thinking about it intently to any who asks
13:41:22 <tusho> *ask
13:41:35 <Deewiant> I see
13:41:49 <Deewiant> so you can't be bothered to try building GCC?
13:48:33 <tusho> no.
13:48:36 <tusho> :p
13:53:16 <Deewiant> meh
13:53:50 <Deewiant> welp, that's what he's making you do anyway
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14:52:49 <tusho> Your trial activation key will expire in 3 days. Please purchase a permanent activation key in order to ensure continuous use of the product after the trial period expires.
14:52:52 <tusho> go fuck a butt parallels
14:59:18 <AnMaster> tusho, will you reset your clock or what will you do?
14:59:31 <tusho> AnMaster: find a key somewhere i guess.
14:59:39 <AnMaster> tusho, not uninstall it?
14:59:52 <tusho> AnMaster: no, because i'd quite like to ... you know. use it
15:00:02 <AnMaster> tusho, there are plenty of free such apps for linux you know
15:00:09 <tusho> as for os x
15:00:15 <tusho> but parallels is faster & has coherence mode
15:00:17 <AnMaster> virtualbox, vmware-server, qemu....
15:00:23 <AnMaster> tusho, virtualbox got that
15:00:27 <AnMaster> and iirc some vmware one too
15:00:27 <tusho> AnMaster: yes but it's slower
15:00:40 <tusho> besides, even with coherence mode, parallels takes it to an extreme
15:00:48 <tusho> seamless drag-n-drop, a dock icon for each windows app, etc
15:00:53 <tusho> it's very pleasant and I don't feel like giving it up
15:01:06 <AnMaster> so pay for it?
15:01:16 <tusho> it costs a ton
15:01:30 <tusho> lemme check how much
15:07:41 <tusho> AnMaster: $80
15:07:52 <tusho> 531 sek
15:08:03 <tusho> £45
15:08:07 <Deewiant> 56 €
15:08:09 <AnMaster> hm
15:08:11 <AnMaster> quite a bit
15:08:22 <AnMaster> well I would just not use the software
15:08:40 <tusho> AnMaster: that would be an option if I didn't have a use & indeed regularly do use its features
15:08:57 <AnMaster> SOL
15:09:02 <tusho> AnMaster: actually i'm not
15:09:04 <tusho> because i can pirate it
15:09:05 <tusho> hooray
15:09:17 <AnMaster> sigh, not nice
15:09:31 <tusho> piracy isn't theft, I have next to no moral qualms with it
15:09:38 <Deewiant> I think that's a relatively fair price to pay for an indefinite license if you use it a lot
15:10:07 <AnMaster> Deewiant, tried rc/funge and cfunge on linux yet?
15:10:07 <tusho> Deewiant: apart from the fact that I just *don't have* that kind of money to give on a piece of software that happens to make my game & web developing life easier
15:10:13 <Deewiant> AnMaster: nope
15:10:17 <AnMaster> Deewiant, ok
15:10:55 <AnMaster> bbl food
15:10:57 <Deewiant> tusho: so you're SOL like AnMaster said, you can't get the best software you want :-P
15:11:08 <tusho> Deewiant: yes i can, I can pirate it. :p
15:11:15 <Deewiant> meh
15:12:39 <OkloThePol> piracy is wrong and mean
15:12:44 -!- OkloThePol has changed nick to oklopol.
15:13:03 <oklopol> —NickServ— This nickname is registered. <<< read this as "this nickname is retarded"
15:13:10 <oklopol> "hey thanks nickserv!"
15:13:49 <tusho> "piracy is wrong and mean" <- disagreed. :p
15:15:23 <oklopol> i don't really give a shit, especially as i don't really think i'm going to be a programmer when i grow up
15:15:53 <oklopol> more like a computer scientist or something
15:15:55 <oklopol> that'd be hot
15:25:16 <tusho> Hmm. Now WHY is that happening.
15:25:35 <AnMaster> oklopol, how old are you?
15:25:43 <oklopol> i'm about your age
15:25:58 <oklopol> :-------------)
15:25:59 <AnMaster> 18?
15:26:07 <oklopol> well no more like 19
15:26:23 <AnMaster> well ok, I will be 19 before the end of the year
15:26:34 <Deewiant> stop making me feel old, you people :-P
15:26:39 <AnMaster> Deewiant, your age?
15:26:45 <oklopol> 21
15:26:46 <oklopol> ?
15:26:46 <Deewiant> 20
15:26:46 <AnMaster> 25 is my guess
15:26:49 <AnMaster> oh sorry
15:26:52 <Deewiant> :-P
15:27:02 <AnMaster> and 20 isn't old really
15:27:03 <Deewiant> 21 in january
15:27:32 <tusho> calamari is 36
15:27:33 <tusho> or 32
15:27:35 <tusho> one of the two.
15:27:39 <tusho> i think 32.
15:27:47 <AnMaster> who is the oldest person here?
15:28:06 <oklopol> oerjan is somewhere around that too, 3x
15:29:14 <AnMaster> ah
15:31:13 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I got the design plan for a 98 version of efunge pretty much done, except I'm not sure how to do fingerprints at all
15:32:04 <AnMaster> Deewiant, who was it that was making a haskell funge?
15:32:14 <AnMaster> and what was the url
15:32:20 <Deewiant> funktio
15:32:24 <Deewiant> can't remember the URL
15:32:37 <Deewiant> google hsfunge, you may find it
15:32:42 <AnMaster> hsfunge, ok
15:32:51 <AnMaster> Your search - hsfunge - did not match any documents.
15:33:00 <AnMaster> funktio, hey what was the url to your funge?
15:36:10 <CO2Games> Ok I've got my first release of DFParser done
15:36:32 <AnMaster> ah found it
15:36:34 <AnMaster> http://funktio.awardspace.com/misc/hsfunge/
15:36:38 <AnMaster> Deewiant, ^
15:37:27 <AnMaster> bbl
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15:44:44 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I assume you want that on your mycology page too
15:45:36 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | now you can't solve the problem "two threads on a dual cpu system being able to transfer data between them using a queue" problem one one of those systems.
15:46:15 <AnMaster> funktio, there? I tried to compile hsfunge but got this error:
15:46:20 <AnMaster> Fingerprints.hs:23:7:
15:46:20 <AnMaster>     Could not find module `Data.Time.Calendar.Julian':
15:46:20 <AnMaster>       Use -v to see a list of the files searched for.
15:46:27 <funktio> weird
15:46:45 <AnMaster> $ ghc --version
15:46:46 <AnMaster> The Glorious Glasgow Haskell Compilation System, version 6.8.2
15:46:46 <funktio> what's your ghc version?
15:47:00 <AnMaster> system is Gentoo Linux x86_64
15:47:20 <funktio> it should be in the libraries that come with ghc: http://www.haskell.org/ghc/docs/latest/html/libraries/time/Data-Time-Calendar-Julian.html
15:47:33 <AnMaster> funktio, I know no haskell, just wanted to try it out
15:47:36 <AnMaster> so that means nothing to me
15:47:52 <AnMaster> anyway I use the binary useflag for haskell, so that means some binary download, not locally compiled one
15:47:53 <fizzie> AnMaster is prescient? At least here the version output appeared before funktio's question.
15:48:20 <AnMaster> fizzie, no, just trying to be helpful
15:48:26 <AnMaster> since that would be a question I would ask
15:48:35 <fizzie> I think you're trying to hide your freaky mutant powers by saying that.
15:48:52 <AnMaster> fizzie, if I had such powers, wouldn't I be able to fix this error?
15:49:09 <fizzie> Maybe the powers are limited? How would I know, I'm not the prescient one here.
15:49:16 <AnMaster> haha
15:49:31 <AnMaster> anyway funktio, what commands should I try next?
15:49:47 <funktio> I don't know
15:50:33 * AnMaster runs a check to see if all md5sums matches on the ghc package
15:50:37 -!- fungot has joined.
15:51:08 <fizzie> Ho, had completely forgotten to revive fungot after having to reboot that computer.
15:51:09 <fungot> fizzie: night folks :) well the simple solution is to have
15:51:13 <ihope> "ghc-6.8.2: internal error: R_X86_64_32S relocation out of range: (noname) = 0x7fa8eb7e54f8"
15:51:26 <ihope> So, the GHC error hasn't magically vanished over here.
15:52:33 <AnMaster> how long has haskell existed?
15:52:42 <AnMaster> I mean, how mature is it seen in years
15:52:44 <funktio> almost 20 years, I think
15:52:47 <AnMaster> ah
15:52:53 <AnMaster> so why so much more popular these days?
15:53:04 <AnMaster> I mean I only heard about haskell a few years ago
15:54:11 <AnMaster> funktio, all files but /usr/lib64/ghc-6.8.2/package.conf match so far, scan is still running
15:54:30 <AnMaster> no idea about that package.conf, from the look of it, it looks like other packages may have changed it
15:54:58 <AnMaster> hm. no
15:55:00 <AnMaster> wait yes
15:55:17 <AnMaster> some dep for darcs
15:56:08 <funktio> hmm
15:56:19 <AnMaster> scan finished, just that one changed
15:56:32 <AnMaster> my guess is that other haskell libraries add themself into that file
15:56:38 <AnMaster> which seems to be the case reading it
15:56:45 <AnMaster> darcs work here btw
15:56:53 <AnMaster> compiled from source
15:58:22 <tusho> AnMaster: haskell has experienced a growth
15:58:26 <tusho> just like ruby a few years ago
15:58:28 <tusho> except less chaotic
15:58:31 <AnMaster> tusho, heh
15:58:46 <tusho> but yes, haskell derived from Miranda (1987) and such
15:58:46 <AnMaster> erlang is experiencing such a growth around now I think
15:58:53 <tusho> with the latest standard revision being 1998
15:59:03 <tusho> AnMaster: yes, but far far more slow and stuff, so barely notiacble
15:59:09 <AnMaster> tusho, wikipedia says haskell "Appeared in 1990"
15:59:15 <tusho> AnMaster: yea
15:59:26 <tusho> and the last conference and the standard resulting, etc, is Haskell'98
15:59:41 <tusho> the next version, colloquially Haskell' (Haskell Prime) is being worked on slowly
15:59:47 <tusho> via the interweb
16:00:35 <CO2Games> http://uploads.co2games.com/DFParser.exe :D
16:03:45 <AnMaster> if it was actually the source being posted I might have looked at it... but posting a windows binary... how useless
16:04:08 <CO2Games> heh
16:04:31 <CO2Games> Why do you want the source?
16:05:08 <AnMaster> first I got no windows, only linux, second I wouldn't trust a binary
16:05:20 <OkloThePol> i would
16:05:21 <CO2Games> oh
16:05:22 <OkloThePol> hey
16:05:27 <OkloThePol> why the nix :<
16:05:28 -!- OkloThePol has changed nick to oklopol.
16:05:30 -!- oklopol has changed nick to oklofok.
16:05:36 <CO2Games> huh?
16:08:33 -!- oklofok has changed nick to oklopol.
16:09:36 <tusho> CO2Games: 'why the ni
16:09:37 <tusho> x'?
16:09:50 <CO2Games> what nix
16:10:36 -!- Ilari has quit ("Won't be back for a while...").
16:12:25 <tusho> CO2Games: what do you mean
16:12:42 <CO2Games> eh?
16:12:49 <CO2Games> Where does it say why the nix?
16:12:56 <tusho> oh
16:12:57 <tusho> that was oklopol
16:13:00 <CO2Games> lol
16:13:09 <CO2Games> I'm confused now
16:13:27 <oklopol> nix is the plural form of nick.
16:13:30 <AnMaster> CO2Games, the *normal* way in the esoteric community is to publish the source
16:14:14 <oklopol> is it an official way btw?
16:14:21 <tusho> AnMaster: shut up
16:14:26 <tusho> yes, source would be nice
16:14:31 <oklopol> # does indicate that
16:14:32 <tusho> but you're insinuating that he's posted a virus in #esoteric
16:15:01 <CO2Games> oh
16:15:28 <oklopol> viruses are awesome, i wish they were legal to create and spread
16:15:36 <CO2Games> Oh that would pwn
16:15:51 <CO2Games> I could infect school computer systems for fun
16:15:54 <tusho> only nice viruses though
16:15:57 <CO2Games> aww
16:15:59 <tusho> like ones that put mice on your screen
16:16:00 <tusho> that run around
16:16:02 <tusho> until you click them
16:16:07 <tusho> then they stop
16:16:08 <tusho> forever
16:16:11 <CO2Games> I was thinking more of worms
16:16:11 <tusho> and you can never move them
16:16:13 <CO2Games> Replicating
16:16:19 <tusho> ooh, i know!
16:16:31 <tusho> you see the other's desktop
16:16:37 <tusho> your mouse runs on to the others from yours
16:16:37 <oklopol> i was thinking more like invisible ones
16:16:38 <CO2Games> Every time it is run it is a rick roll and changes its name
16:16:42 <tusho> and you see it poop some germs out
16:16:44 <tusho> and then walk back
16:16:50 <tusho> and then germs turn into another worm
16:17:05 <tusho> and
16:17:09 <tusho> while the rat is moving across on to the others
16:17:15 <tusho> everything you say into the microphone is said by your rat
16:17:17 <tusho> on the other's computer
16:17:21 <CO2Games> But the 10th time it shows meatspin porn
16:17:34 <CO2Games> And then beeps a lot
16:17:39 <CO2Games> And starts swearing
16:17:40 <oklopol> you ppl are weird.
16:18:16 <CO2Games> yes we are
16:18:21 <CO2Games> anyway
16:18:29 <CO2Games> You think I should post the source?
16:18:51 <oklopol> not really, i prefer programs being black boxes.
16:18:58 <CO2Games> lol
16:19:22 <oklopol> lol?
16:20:18 <CO2Games> So I should post the source?
16:20:26 <oklopol> yes, definitely
16:20:32 <CO2Games> Eek alright
16:21:02 <oklopol> see i can just give random responses until you're happy :)
16:21:12 <CO2Games> lol
16:21:19 <oklopol> it's called simulated annealing
16:21:27 <fizzie> ^bool
16:21:28 <fungot> No.
16:21:36 <fizzie> See, fungot doesn't want any source.
16:21:36 <fungot> fizzie: the reason why he wanted the xml/ xslt step there
16:21:47 <fizzie> fungot: Was what?
16:21:48 <fungot> fizzie: in that case."
16:21:58 <fizzie> Didn't get it. :/
16:24:58 <CO2Games> wtf
16:24:59 -!- pikhq has quit (Connection timed out).
16:25:07 <CO2Games> I can't ftp to my site
16:26:01 <tusho> CO2Games: pastebin.ca
16:26:11 <CO2Games> What?
16:26:16 <CO2Games> It's more than one file
16:28:28 <tusho> So paste them all with //filename at the top,
16:28:30 <AnMaster> hm I think it is possible to complete every task in a non-turing complete language, to be exact some specific non-turing complete language
16:28:41 <AnMaster> apart from making a turing complete language interpreter
16:29:17 <AnMaster> you just need something like HQ8+ but with one extra instruction, for the task you want to handle
16:29:28 <oklopol> sure.
16:29:53 <tusho> AnMaster: ...duh...
16:30:23 <AnMaster> tusho, it was a joke :P
16:30:23 <tusho> if a program sees a character and reacts to it it can do anything it wants!
16:30:25 <tusho> zomggg!
16:30:29 <tusho> AnMaster: it wasn't very funny
16:30:30 <CO2Games> Oh perhaps I should have zipped it
16:30:37 <tusho> CO2Games: perhaps you should pastebin it
16:30:50 <CO2Games> ...
16:33:00 <CO2Games> http://co2games.com/DrainFuck.zip
16:36:45 <AnMaster> cache.cpp?
16:36:58 <AnMaster> wtf?
16:37:05 <CO2Games> Yeah yeah I know it shouldn't be a class but I might work with it some more
16:37:16 <AnMaster> what the heck does it do?
16:37:22 <AnMaster> and I'm no C++ programmer
16:37:34 <AnMaster> I just wondering if you were doing what I thought you were
16:37:35 <CO2Games> ....
16:37:38 <AnMaster> implementing some CPU cache
16:37:41 <AnMaster> in software
16:37:42 <CO2Games> oh haha no
16:37:59 <fizzie> It's a wrapper for an "unsigned short" that does not do much.
16:38:06 <CO2Games> exactly
16:38:40 <AnMaster> wrapper for unsigned short
16:38:41 <AnMaster> huh
16:38:43 <CO2Games> Why I used it I will never no
16:38:44 <AnMaster> why
16:38:47 <CO2Games> know*
16:38:56 <fizzie> And the code needs nonstandard itoa, _getch and <conio.h>, although that's pretty trivial to fix if you want it to compile on a Unixy system.
16:39:10 <AnMaster> conio.h?
16:39:12 <AnMaster> never heard of that
16:39:45 <fizzie> It has that _getch, which does "get a character from the keyboard in an unbuffered way".
16:39:57 <AnMaster> ah. well that is silly
16:40:16 <CO2Games> It's the only way I saw
16:40:26 <AnMaster> CO2Games, won't work on anything but windows then
16:40:28 <AnMaster> *shrug*
16:40:35 <CO2Games> Wtf
16:40:42 <CO2Games> noooo
16:41:05 <AnMaster> <fizzie> And the code needs nonstandard itoa, _getch and <conio.h>, although that's pretty trivial to fix if you want it to compile on a Unixy system.
16:41:08 <AnMaster> as he said
16:41:31 <CO2Games> So how do I get something like getch that works on unix systems?
16:41:45 <fizzie> On the other hand, the POSIXy way (tcsetattr to mangle terminal modes, plus fgetc) won't work on Windows.
16:42:01 <AnMaster> fizzie, using ncurses could work on both I guess
16:42:09 <CO2Games> fizzie, #ifdef
16:42:31 <CO2Games> #ifdef _WIN32 and #ifdef __unix__
16:42:36 <fizzie> AnMaster: If you have a Windows curses implementation. There is at least pdcurses that I know of.
16:42:43 <tusho> why not just use getch() CO2Games?
16:42:44 <AnMaster> ah
16:42:49 <tusho> pressing enter for input is standard brainfuck behaviour
16:42:54 <AnMaster> NAME
16:42:54 <AnMaster>        getch, wgetch, mvgetch, mvwgetch, ungetch, has_key - get (or push back) characters from curses terminal keyboard
16:42:54 <AnMaster> SYNOPSIS
16:42:54 <AnMaster>        #include <curses.h>
16:42:56 <AnMaster> that one?
16:42:58 <CO2Games> Ehh no it isn't
16:43:07 <AnMaster> tusho, you mean getchar
16:43:08 <tusho> CO2Games: yes it is
16:43:09 <fizzie> I think tusho means getchar/fgetc.
16:43:10 <tusho> AnMaster: yes
16:43:16 <CO2Games> ehh no
16:43:16 <tusho> CO2Games: see: every interpreter ever
16:43:21 <tusho> I could bombard you with c sources if you want
16:43:25 <AnMaster> yep
16:43:25 <CO2Games> What about compilers
16:43:28 <tusho> yep
16:43:36 <tusho> but you're the newbie and I've written like 10 brainfuck interpreters and a few compilers and read many more...
16:43:40 <tusho> so...i'd just trust me on this one
16:43:41 <CO2Games> Brainfucking Machine gets a single character
16:43:46 <tusho> enter for input is very standard behaviour
16:43:52 <tusho> CO2Games: then it is the exception
16:44:09 <CO2Games> But pressing enter for a single character is SO inefficient
16:44:13 <AnMaster> CO2Games, gets a single char from the existing buffer yes
16:44:19 <AnMaster> so you enter a line
16:44:20 <tusho> that's why you enter a line at a time CO2Games
16:44:22 <tusho> e.g. for ,[.,]
16:44:24 <tusho> hello world<ENTER>
16:44:25 <tusho> hello world
16:44:31 <tusho> wow you said what i said<ENTER>
16:44:32 <tusho> wow you said what i said
16:44:37 <CO2Games> uhh no
16:44:39 <tusho> CO2Games: yes
16:44:41 <AnMaster> oh yes
16:44:47 <CO2Games> what
16:44:49 <tusho> that is how every brainfuck interp works, apart from broken ones
16:44:56 <CO2Games> noooooo
16:44:58 <AnMaster> yes
16:44:58 <tusho> yeeeeeeeeeeees
16:45:06 <CO2Games> Enter is not the way this should be done
16:45:10 <tusho> Yes. Yes it is.
16:45:14 <AnMaster> well don't bother us then
16:45:27 <CO2Games> Besides I had to google a lot of shit to find getch
16:45:30 <AnMaster> it uses line buffered input
16:45:34 <AnMaster> CO2Games, so what?
16:45:40 <AnMaster> doesn't mean you are right
16:45:58 <CO2Games> So lemee get this straight
16:46:08 <CO2Games> ,[.,] echos input after a newline
16:46:09 <AnMaster> fairly simple
16:46:15 <tusho> CO2Games: it's simple
16:46:17 <tusho> the source for , is
16:46:23 <tusho> value_of_tape_at_pointer = getchar()
16:46:24 <tusho> instead of
16:46:26 <tusho> value_of_tape_at_pointer = _getch()
16:46:35 <CO2Games> Well shit.
16:46:40 <CO2Games> That blows.
16:46:45 <tusho> CO2Games: no it does not
16:46:53 <tusho> it is a lot better than your version for a wide variety of programs
16:47:20 <CO2Games> Think about games. What if you had to press enter every time you pressed w
16:47:40 <tusho> you couldn't write a game in brainfuck
16:47:43 <tusho> besides, that is a totally different issue
16:47:48 <tusho> games access the keyboard directly
16:47:52 <AnMaster> yes there is lostkingdom
16:47:56 <AnMaster> it is a game
16:48:01 <tusho> yes but it's a text adventure
16:48:02 <AnMaster> line based
16:48:04 <AnMaster> yes
16:48:04 <tusho> not the FPS style he is thinking of
16:48:18 <AnMaster> fps game would suck in brainfuck
16:48:57 <fizzie> For one thing, with _getch() like that the "speed" of the game would depend on your keyboard repeat rate and only move when you have some key pressed.
16:49:31 <AnMaster> yeah
16:49:32 <fizzie> (Or does it return immediately if there's a key pressed? It might do that. Doesn't help much with the timing of a game there.)
16:49:37 <CO2Games> fine I'll go back to getchar
16:50:10 <AnMaster> fizzie, would work for turn based games like nethack though
16:50:15 <CO2Games> And what is it I'm supposed to do about itoa
16:50:21 <tusho> not use it/
16:50:29 <CO2Games> what?
16:50:34 <CO2Games> Then what do I use?
16:50:38 <AnMaster> snprintf for example
16:50:42 <tusho> restructure your code so you don't have to use it
16:50:46 <tusho> i.e. what are you using it for?
16:50:53 <tusho> puts(itoa(foo))?
16:50:57 <CO2Games> yeah
16:50:58 <tusho> Use printf("%i", foo)
16:51:00 <tusho> duh
16:51:05 <AnMaster> indeed
16:51:09 <CO2Games> urgh fine
16:51:19 <tusho> that's more memory-efficient anyway
16:51:25 <tusho> since you should free() the itoa return iirc
16:51:33 <CO2Games> Oh
16:51:55 <fizzie> This itoa looks like it uses a supplied buffer.
16:51:59 <CO2Games> so printf( prints to the screen?
16:52:12 <AnMaster> read the fcking man pages?
16:52:18 <CO2Games> what man pages
16:52:18 <fizzie> char itoabuf[20]; puts(itoa(parseresult,itoabuf,10)); ... still, there's no reason not to use printf there.
16:52:41 <CO2Games> Dude, I'm on windows
16:52:56 <fizzie> Well, Visual C++ has the MSDN documentation installed usually.
16:53:07 <CO2Games> Yeah yeah ok
16:53:12 <CO2Games> brb
16:53:14 <tusho> "so printf prints to the screen"
16:53:17 <tusho> You, my friend, should stop writing C.
16:53:19 <tusho> Immediately.
16:53:20 <fizzie> There's a C library reference in there somewhere, I've seen it.
16:53:27 <AnMaster> read the fcking msdn documentation, though I pitty you if you do ;)
16:53:42 <Deewiant> AnMaster: you wouldn't like him to read the MSDN documentation
16:54:00 <Deewiant> they typically say stuff like "the POSIX function foo() is deprecated, use the ISO conformant _foo() instead"
16:54:00 <AnMaster> Deewiant, hm why not?
16:54:04 <AnMaster> ugh
16:54:07 <AnMaster> but that is a lie
16:54:13 <AnMaster> there are no _foo or such
16:54:14 <Deewiant> a lie?
16:54:18 <Deewiant> sure there are
16:54:26 <AnMaster> Deewiant, what ISO spec?
16:54:31 <AnMaster> are they talking about
16:54:32 <Deewiant> I dunno, google for that
16:54:58 <AnMaster> tusho, yeah printf() is the same level as "hello world"
16:55:13 <AnMaster> or since it is C++ he could just use cout << number;
16:55:17 <AnMaster> though that sucks
16:55:18 <Deewiant> for instance itoa
16:55:18 <Deewiant> http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms235327(VS.80).aspx
16:55:35 <AnMaster> there is no itoa
16:55:50 <Deewiant> wasn't itoa a POSIX extension?
16:55:54 <AnMaster> it is *NOT* a POSIX function
16:56:10 <fizzie> Yes, they just call it a "posix function" since it's where they keep other stuff like that.
16:56:24 <Deewiant> guess not, it was just a K&R function
16:56:37 <fizzie> It's just common, but not POSIX.
16:56:58 <AnMaster> I implement my own one, more like ltostr, since it can handle various odd bases
16:57:00 <AnMaster> use it in BASE
16:57:03 <AnMaster> no where else
16:57:04 <CO2Games> fprint("%i",foo); right?
16:57:26 <AnMaster> printf
16:57:30 <CO2Games> err
16:57:30 <Deewiant> AnMaster: but in any case, "ISO C++ conformant" in MSDN generally means that you should just use _foo because that's what the ISO C++ standard says implementation-defined names should be like
16:57:33 <CO2Games> yeah printf
16:57:44 <Deewiant> hence _itoa
16:57:44 <fizzie> In any case, the code is C++, not C. (Although it uses C IO and only a couple of bits like some namespace declarations and "<cfoo> instead of <foo.h>" headers.)
16:57:46 <AnMaster> Deewiant, ah sucks even more
16:57:59 <Deewiant> AnMaster: not really
16:58:11 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well it is misleading
16:58:16 <Deewiant> in a way it's good that they're saying "this probably won't work on all C++ compilers"
16:58:18 <AnMaster> make ppl think it is portable
16:58:27 <Deewiant> maybe
16:58:32 <AnMaster> Deewiant, they forgot "implementation specific"
16:58:33 <Deewiant> fizzie: I always use C IO in C++ programs :-P
16:58:48 <AnMaster> I always just use C and cut away the C++ crap
16:58:54 <AnMaster> for one, C is way more portable
16:58:57 <AnMaster> really
16:58:57 <fizzie> Deewiant: I usually just write C if I have no use for C++.
16:59:13 <Deewiant> AnMaster: if you restrict yourself to POSIX anyway your C is just as portable as C++ :-P
16:59:16 <AnMaster> you can find C compilers for almost any system made since 1990
16:59:23 <AnMaster> and even before that
16:59:30 <Deewiant> yeah, and they won't be POSIX-compliant
16:59:41 <AnMaster> Deewiant, indeed but I need some stuff from POSIX really
16:59:51 <AnMaster> fork() for example in PERL fingerprint
16:59:56 <Deewiant> yeah, exactly, so there's no point in using C instead of C++
17:00:03 <AnMaster> I agree C99 is a bit less common
17:00:06 <Deewiant> at least no /portability/ point
17:00:11 <Deewiant> it's a /lot/ less common
17:00:12 <AnMaster> but that is changing quickly
17:00:16 <Deewiant> C++ is much more portable than C99
17:00:21 <Deewiant> and no, it's not really changing
17:00:25 <AnMaster> yes it is
17:00:35 <CO2Games> hey do most unix shells support pause?
17:00:36 <AnMaster> both tcc and pcc are aiming for C99
17:00:41 <CO2Games> like from dos?
17:00:44 <Deewiant> CO2Games: none
17:00:46 <AnMaster> CO2Games, none that I know of
17:00:49 <CO2Games> damn
17:00:55 <CO2Games> hmmmm...
17:01:01 <Deewiant> CO2Games: if you want to use system("pause") just use getchar() instead
17:01:05 <AnMaster> and it is quite pointless
17:01:19 <CO2Games> But what if there is another char in the buffer
17:01:22 <AnMaster> Deewiant, if the program waits at the end I would kill it
17:01:59 <Deewiant> AnMaster: whether you press ^C or enter the results are the same
17:02:21 <fizzie> Deewiant: The ^C hurts the program more. :p
17:02:23 <AnMaster> Deewiant, hm?
17:02:38 <AnMaster> you mean abort?
17:02:40 <Deewiant> fizzie: you're not supposed to use something like that except at the end of main() anyhoo
17:02:42 <CO2Games> Yes
17:02:54 <AnMaster> indeed fizzie
17:03:09 <AnMaster> never use system("pause"); at the end of main
17:03:12 <Deewiant> AnMaster: would you really open a new shell and "kill -9" without even pressing enter if the program looks to be doing nothing?
17:03:14 <CO2Games> Why
17:03:29 <Deewiant> CO2Games: poor UI
17:03:30 <CO2Games> In windows it vanishes
17:03:34 <Deewiant> why require an extra keypress
17:03:40 <Deewiant> CO2Games: no it doesn't
17:03:41 <CO2Games> To see the results
17:03:46 <CO2Games> Yes, it does
17:03:52 <Deewiant> only if you double-click-opened it
17:03:54 <CO2Games> unless you use cmd to get at it
17:03:55 <Deewiant> i.e. not from a shell
17:03:57 <Deewiant> exactly
17:04:08 <CO2Games> and who uses cmd?
17:04:11 <fizzie> It's a command line program, I would assume to use the command line to run it.
17:04:12 <Deewiant> if you want to write a non-console program then write a non-console program
17:04:15 <Deewiant> I do, daily
17:04:20 <Deewiant> I have 2 cmd prompts open as we speak
17:04:28 <AnMaster> CO2Games, you just alienated about half the people here
17:04:31 <CO2Games> wow
17:05:02 <CO2Games> Wait you mean I'm not the only one who actually likes cli?
17:05:06 <fizzie> In any case, if you're doing the #ifdef thing already, you can stick your system("pause") or whatever in #ifdef _WIN32 or whatever it was.
17:05:25 <CO2Games> True...
17:05:49 <Deewiant> hmm, I guess you can't detect whether a process was started via cmd or not
17:06:06 <AnMaster> is your brainfuck implementation even optimising?
17:06:11 <CO2Games> What?
17:06:15 <Deewiant> "even"? :-P
17:06:17 <CO2Games> optimising?
17:06:19 <AnMaster> like combining >>> into a "move 3 cells"
17:06:24 <CO2Games> nah
17:06:28 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I think almost all do it
17:06:44 <AnMaster> and [-] into "zero cell"
17:06:45 <Deewiant> almost all that people who develop in BF use, probably
17:06:55 <Deewiant> almost all that people who just try out BF use, probably not :-P
17:07:14 <CO2Games> Actually I have a 0 command for that
17:07:24 <AnMaster> Deewiant, all bf interpreters I mean
17:07:37 <Deewiant> AnMaster: I know what you meant, and I disagreed
17:07:42 <AnMaster> CO2Games, seems pointless, [-] is a standard idiom
17:07:45 <fizzie> Deewiant: You could use GetConsoleProcessList to check if cmd.exe is still attached to the console (I'm thinking it could stay there even during program execution) but only on XP or Vista.
17:07:51 <CO2Games> 0 is faster
17:08:02 <AnMaster> hardly
17:08:05 <CO2Games> And I didn't know about the wrapping in brainfuck when I made it
17:08:06 <fizzie> It's not faster if you optimise [-]. :p
17:08:24 <AnMaster> since most interpreters will change [-] into "set 0"
17:08:38 <Deewiant> fizzie: when would you check that, it's always attached no?
17:08:43 <fizzie> Fungot's interpreter won't. :p
17:08:43 <AnMaster> certainly my basic def-bf compiler does some basic stuff like that in no-jump zones
17:09:02 <fizzie> Deewiant: I don't think it is if you start a program with a double-click and windows ends up creating a new console window for it.
17:09:44 <Deewiant> fizzie: it will be "explorer.exe/whatever -> cmd.exe -> program" and not "explorer.exe/whatever -> program", or am I misunderstanding
17:10:20 <CO2Games> This is why I used pause.
17:10:21 <fizzie> Deewiant: Uh, explorer.exe will definitely not be attached to the console, and I really don't think cmd.exe is involved if you start a console executable directly.
17:10:40 <Deewiant> fizzie: I'm just talking about what starts what process
17:11:08 <CO2Games> This would be easier if they hadn't removed dos from windows
17:11:18 <fizzie> Deewiant: Well, ok. But I don't think cmd.exe is involved when you run console executables, Windows just creates a console window if the program needs one.
17:11:29 <fizzie> Deewiant: Of course I'm no Windows person, this is all mostly speculation.
17:12:00 <AnMaster> iirc you need to call something like CreateConsoleA(a lot of parameters, several pointers to structs)
17:12:06 <AnMaster> C++ may do it for you
17:12:08 <AnMaster> not sure
17:12:08 <Deewiant> fizzie: hmm, evidently not
17:12:21 <CO2Games> brb
17:12:22 <Deewiant> damn, I was fairly sure a cmd.exe would be spawned
17:12:23 <fizzie> If it's compiled as a "console application", there's some magic to do it automatically.
17:12:35 <fizzie> I don't remember how that works.
17:12:58 <AnMaster> fizzie, ah yes that sounds familiar
17:13:06 <fizzie> Considering the uselessity of cmd.exe, I don't really see any reason to use it in there.
17:13:21 <Deewiant> uselessity? it's much better than DOS :-P
17:13:29 <fizzie> Does it even do job control?
17:13:36 <Deewiant> and I still think it's better than any alternatives on windows
17:13:39 <Deewiant> nope
17:13:45 <Deewiant> I never use job control anyway, though
17:13:54 <fizzie> Well, then, I see no reason to run a program under it in that case.
17:14:00 <GregorR> An interesting albeit impossible study would be to find compiler histories of major compiler binaries. e.g. the GCC in Debian was compiled by an older GCC in Debian, which was compiled by an even older GCC, etc etc, until you get the GCC in Debian compiled by the GCC from (perhaps) SLS, then the GCC in (an earlier) SLS compiled by the CC from Minix, which was probably ultimately bootstrapped by aBSD C compiler, which in turn was probably ultimately boo
17:14:00 <GregorR> tstrapped by an AT&T UNIX C compiler, which ultimately was bootstrapped by the original K&R BCPL language IIRC.
17:14:22 <Deewiant> "impossible" is quite right. :-P
17:14:25 <AnMaster> <Deewiant> and I still think it's better than any alternatives on windows <-- powershell?
17:14:35 <Deewiant> AnMaster: haven't tried it TBH
17:14:47 <AnMaster> and I agree with fizzie about job control
17:14:54 <Deewiant> some people say it sucks, some people like it
17:15:01 <fizzie> I don't know the alternatives, but there was a 4dos variant, something like 4nt. This was "some time ago", I think.
17:15:04 <Deewiant> what's so important about job control, what do you use it for
17:15:13 <Deewiant> I didn't like 4nt
17:15:24 <fizzie> I liked 4dos, never tried 4nt.
17:15:24 <Deewiant> and it's non-free anyway, so that's that :-P
17:15:32 <Deewiant> cmd.exe has most of 4dos's features
17:15:37 <AnMaster> GregorR, yeah impossible
17:15:39 <fizzie> Of course with 4dos the point of reference was command.com, so...
17:16:08 <fizzie> As for job control, it's not that I'd be constantly using it, I just see no reason to involve cmd.exe in the execution of an application if the cmd.exe isn't going to _do_ anything.
17:16:20 <fizzie> (Except open a console or something.)
17:16:34 <Deewiant> in executing an individual application, certainly
17:16:37 <AnMaster> um if you mean a console window I would prefer konsole
17:16:38 <AnMaster> :D
17:16:44 -!- cherez has joined.
17:16:46 <Deewiant> but in general I run more than a single program in a cmd.exe :-P
17:16:54 -!- cherez has quit (Client Quit).
17:16:55 <fizzie> Yeah, sure, you can use it interactively.
17:16:57 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I often run stuff with &
17:17:08 <Deewiant> I very rarely do
17:17:14 <Deewiant> what kind of stuff do you run with &?
17:17:19 <AnMaster> for example make > make.log 2>&1 &
17:17:29 <AnMaster> then I would do other stuff while I wait
17:17:30 <Deewiant> yeah alright, like that
17:17:39 <AnMaster> Deewiant, is true for lots of other things too
17:17:41 <Deewiant> okay, I guess that makes sense
17:17:46 <Deewiant> I haven't felt the need though
17:17:52 <fizzie> In that sort of situation I just spawn more shells, generally.
17:17:53 <AnMaster> ./envbot &
17:17:58 <AnMaster> with stdout logging off
17:18:32 <fizzie> Even fungot's running in the foreground, since it breaks so often and I want to see the raw IRC messages which made it crash.
17:18:33 -!- cherez has joined.
17:18:33 -!- cherez has quit (Remote closed the connection).
17:18:33 <fungot> fizzie: my experiences with x-chat haven't been pleasant at all. thing is though, if it was
17:18:42 <Deewiant> I generally spawn more shells as well
17:18:42 <AnMaster> Deewiant, and does it even handle basic programming on command line?
17:18:43 -!- cherez has joined.
17:18:45 <AnMaster> noo
17:18:47 <Deewiant> yes it does
17:19:18 <Deewiant> not that I often need that, either :-P
17:19:31 <AnMaster> for i in 199{0..9}; do wget http://www.no.ioccc.org/${i}/${i}.tgz; tar -zxf ${i}.tgz; done
17:19:34 <AnMaster> Deewiant, like that?
17:19:55 <AnMaster> was just first example with for from my command line history
17:20:01 <fizzie> fungot: Uh, you're speaking to the IRC server directly with a socket. There's no x-chat there. How would you even get x-chat in your little chroot jail?
17:20:02 <fungot> fizzie: but i don't know where the fnord level' of syntactic closures, and the
17:20:15 <fizzie> That bot is seriously messed up.
17:20:15 <Deewiant> for /L %i in (1990,1,1999) do wget ...%i/%i.tgz ...
17:20:38 <AnMaster> Deewiant, functions on command line?
17:20:49 <Deewiant> probably not
17:20:59 <Deewiant> not sure, don't use it much
17:21:42 <Deewiant> hmm, not sure how to do command blocks actually
17:21:45 <AnMaster> for example I wrote this when I was testing on envbot:
17:21:46 <AnMaster> profile() { local n=$1; shift; while (( n-- )); do "$@"; done; }
17:21:59 <AnMaster> then I could do:
17:22:05 <AnMaster> profile 1000 sometest
17:22:08 <AnMaster> profile 1000 someothertest
17:22:13 <AnMaster> to see which was fastest
17:22:29 <AnMaster> mostly pure bash vs. external tools
17:22:44 <AnMaster> in general pure bash is faster for smaller data sets due to fork() overhead
17:22:46 <tusho> AnMaster: you use goto
17:22:54 <tusho> and labels
17:23:01 <AnMaster> tusho, you can't use goto to another line in interactive shell
17:23:06 <AnMaster> only in *.bat files
17:23:10 <tusho> you can goto another label
17:23:14 <AnMaster> which is *very very* different
17:23:18 <AnMaster> tusho, see what I mean?
17:23:28 <AnMaster> Deewiant, so can you use that for loop in interactive shell?
17:23:29 * tusho shrugs
17:23:31 <AnMaster> that is important
17:23:34 <Deewiant> AnMaster: yes
17:23:40 <AnMaster> and functions like that?
17:23:49 <AnMaster> tusho, anyway we were talking about interactive shell
17:23:51 <Deewiant> like said, probably doesn't support functions
17:23:54 <AnMaster> I know *.bat can do more
17:23:56 <Deewiant> not sure
17:24:00 <AnMaster> but that is not interesting
17:24:11 <AnMaster> I want to be able to work in interactive shell when coding bash
17:24:15 <Deewiant> interactive shell can do everything *.bat can
17:24:15 <AnMaster> way more effective
17:24:20 <AnMaster> Deewiant, not goto
17:24:25 <AnMaster> I'm 99% sure
17:24:29 <Deewiant> well yeah
17:24:31 <Deewiant> of course :-P
17:24:36 <AnMaster> Deewiant, so you can't do flow control at all
17:24:41 <AnMaster> or functions
17:24:44 <Deewiant> AnMaster: if and for work
17:25:57 <AnMaster> Deewiant, still... not enough I suspect
17:26:06 <Deewiant> what's "enough"
17:26:55 <fizzie> Enough to satiate AnMaster's insane bloodlust for shell programming.
17:27:05 <Deewiant> :-)
17:28:37 <AnMaster> to be usable
17:28:46 <AnMaster> I very often write functions directly on command line
17:28:49 <AnMaster> or complex loops
17:29:03 <Deewiant> I don't think I have ever written a function on the command line
17:29:15 <AnMaster> well of course, cmd.exe doesn't support it
17:29:20 <AnMaster> but it makes life easier
17:29:27 <Deewiant> I do use linux as well, you know :-P
17:29:48 <AnMaster> Deewiant, ah so you tested cfunge and rcfunge noe?
17:29:49 <AnMaster> now*
17:30:04 <Deewiant> nah, I've been doing school work most of the day
17:30:04 <AnMaster> and started updating that page
17:30:09 <AnMaster> ah ok
17:30:21 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I think sf.net wouldn't like me to do 2 releases in 2 days
17:30:28 <AnMaster> so next will wait at least a week
17:30:29 <Deewiant> why not
17:30:47 <fizzie> Release early, release often, they say.
17:31:04 <AnMaster> for 1 fixed bug + a few cygwin support bits?
17:31:05 <AnMaster> really?
17:31:10 <ihope> What if you have no code?
17:31:20 <AnMaster> hahaha
17:31:23 <Deewiant> AnMaster: why not?
17:31:39 <fizzie> It's one more file-pile for sf.net to keep indefinitely in the repositories, I guess.
17:31:46 <ihope> Can you release a source file consisting entirely of comments?
17:31:59 <AnMaster> fizzie, indeed
17:31:59 <Deewiant> why not?
17:32:07 <fizzie> Still, I really don't think they'd care much.
17:32:19 <AnMaster> and freshmeat got some policy against it
17:32:35 <AnMaster> I'll wait until next weekend
17:32:46 <AnMaster> "another week, another release" I heard some project use
17:32:53 <AnMaster> but never "another day, another release"
17:33:18 <AnMaster> (btw, I think that was inspircd in some release announcement for some beta version of 1.1)
17:33:21 <tusho> another day, another release is a spectacular idea
17:33:23 <Deewiant> another commit, another release
17:33:25 <tusho> though only for early phases
17:33:29 <AnMaster> tusho, exactly
17:33:34 <tusho> a release every 3 days is then suitable
17:33:39 <tusho> until the program is stable
17:33:39 <AnMaster> yes
17:33:45 <AnMaster> and cfunge is mostly stable
17:33:48 <tusho> in which case a release every half month to a month is reasonable
17:33:53 <AnMaster> so maybe I'll publish an errata :D
17:34:08 <tusho> AnMaster: but esoteric software projects and little things like cfunge are...not stable software, ever
17:34:08 <tusho> really
17:34:13 <tusho> they classify as early/mid development
17:34:16 <tusho> so: a release every 1-3 days
17:34:20 <AnMaster> tusho, nah
17:34:27 <AnMaster> cfunge is kind of stable
17:34:29 <tusho> c-intercal is huge enough to justify a proper release schedule
17:34:33 <tusho> AnMaster: no, you don't get my point
17:34:39 <AnMaster> same as ick
17:34:40 <tusho> esoteric projects are different in that they're small and unimportant
17:34:46 <tusho> so it's best to release very often
17:34:50 <AnMaster> tusho, did you say small?
17:34:53 <tusho> instead of artificially delaying it
17:34:54 <AnMaster> how many lines of code?
17:34:55 <tusho> AnMaster: Yes i did
17:35:00 <tusho> I've looked at cfunge.
17:35:01 <tusho> It's small.
17:35:15 <Deewiant> how huge is c-intercal?
17:35:23 <AnMaster> $ ~/src/ohcount-1.0.1/bin/ohcount src lib
17:35:23 <AnMaster> Examining 137 file(s).
17:35:23 <AnMaster>                           Ohloh Line Count Summary
17:35:23 <AnMaster> Language        Files       Code    Comment  Comment %      Blank      Total
17:35:23 <AnMaster> --------------  -----  ---------  ---------  ---------  ---------  ---------
17:35:24 <AnMaster> c                  95       9833       3963      28.7%       1910      15706
17:35:26 <AnMaster> cpp                 1        109        163      59.9%         43        315
17:35:28 <AnMaster> shell               1          5          1      16.7%          2          8
17:35:30 <AnMaster> --------------  -----  ---------  ---------  ---------  ---------  ---------
17:35:32 <AnMaster> Total              97       9947       4127      29.3%       1955      16029
17:35:34 <AnMaster> sorry for spam
17:35:41 <AnMaster> oh and cpp = some headers using C++ reserved words for other stuff
17:35:52 <AnMaster> that that line counter can't understand is really C
17:35:55 <AnMaster> like "template" iirc
17:37:02 <AnMaster> tusho, do you call around 10 000 lines of code small?
17:37:14 <Deewiant> what languages does ohcount support?
17:37:22 <AnMaster> Deewiant, a lot iirc
17:37:35 <AnMaster> since it is used for ohloh.<whatever>
17:37:35 <Deewiant> for small values of "lot" probably
17:37:38 <AnMaster> net, or com or org
17:37:41 <tusho> AnMaster: when it's doing fucking trivial stuff and is only big because your code sucks and you microoptimize for no reason, yes.
17:38:34 <AnMaster> Deewiant, more than one screen with one per line
17:38:37 <Deewiant> ohloh.net used to say Tango was written in shell... guess it's more accurate now
17:38:43 <AnMaster> in a 40x180 terminal
17:39:11 <AnMaster> Deewiant, no not D it seems
17:39:14 <AnMaster> http://rafb.net/p/4htZpB57.html
17:39:23 <Deewiant> AnMaster: well, https://www.ohloh.net/projects/dtango/analyses/latest has D
17:39:34 <Deewiant> AnMaster: and as you can see, it's at the bottom
17:39:41 <AnMaster> Deewiant, ok, I may have a non-recent version here
17:39:50 <Deewiant> AnMaster: at the bottom of your paste, I meant
17:39:59 <AnMaster> oh yes
17:40:01 <AnMaster> now I see it
17:40:04 <tusho> So. Anyone want to sway my domain choice from tusho.net? (.net is effectively general like .com but .com looks bad for a personal site to me, .org is kind of correct but 1. i may wanna sell somethign on there that I made at some point..dunno what 2. i'm not an organization 3. the g dangling looks weird compared to the tusho, and .name looks kinda weird as in "tusho.name" - it's the "correct" one to use, but I don't like how "name" is as big as "tusho" when "t
17:40:13 <tusho> hope that all got through if not tell me where it was cut
17:40:21 <Deewiant> as "tusho" when "t
17:40:25 <AnMaster> Deewiant, anyway it is a fair list, even though far from all
17:40:30 <tusho> usho" is the important part)
17:40:30 <Deewiant> tusho: use a client that can split it for you
17:40:32 <tusho> tada
17:40:37 <tusho> So. Anyone want to sway my domain choice from tusho.net? (.net is effectively general like .com but .com looks bad for a personal site to me, .org is kind of correct but 1. i may wanna sell somethign on there that I made at some point..dunno what 2. i'm not an organization 3. the g dangling looks weird compared to the tusho, and .name looks kinda weird as in "tusho.name" - it's the "correct" one to use, but I don't like how "name" is as big as "tusho" when "t
17:40:38 <tusho> usho" is the important part)
17:40:40 <tusho> there ya go.
17:41:35 <AnMaster> ho" when "
17:41:35 <AnMaster> <tusho> usho" is the important part)
17:41:36 <AnMaster> eh?
17:41:45 <AnMaster> is usho the important bit?
17:41:46 <tusho> what?
17:41:48 <tusho> no
17:41:48 <AnMaster> hi t usho
17:41:51 <tusho> my message is too long
17:41:53 <tusho> so i split it
17:41:56 <AnMaster> tusho, there was no t in either pace
17:42:01 <fizzie> There was a t.
17:42:05 <AnMaster> um
17:42:07 <AnMaster> not here
17:42:08 <fizzie> I saw one, and there is one in Deewiant's paste.
17:42:10 <tusho> So. Anyone want to sway my domain choice from tusho.net? (.net is effectively general like .com but .com looks bad for a personal site to me, .org is kind of correct but 1. i may wanna sell somethign on there that I made at some point..dunno what 2. i'm not an organization 3. the g dangling looks weird compared to the tusho, and .name looks kinda weird as in "tusho.name" - it's the "correct" one to use, but I don't like how "name" is as big as "tusho" when
17:42:12 <tusho> So. Anyone want to sway my domain choice from tusho.net? (.net is effectively general like .com but .com looks bad for a personal site to me, .org is kind of correct but 1. i may wanna sell somethign on there that I made at some point..dunno what 2. i'm not an organization 3. the g dangling looks weird compared to the tusho, and .name looks kinda weird as in "tusho.name" - it's the "correct" one to use, but I don't like how "name" is as big as "tusho" when
17:42:13 <tusho> "tusho" is the important part)
17:42:15 <tusho> happy?
17:42:20 <AnMaster> sure yes
17:42:32 <tusho> okay. now can further discussion be about the content of the message, not its presentation? :P
17:42:39 <AnMaster> http://rafb.net/p/U1actx90.html
17:42:40 <AnMaster> *that*
17:42:42 <AnMaster> was what I saw
17:42:50 <AnMaster> something dropped the t here then
17:42:51 <tusho> "okay. now can further discussion be about the content of the message, not its presentation? :P"
17:43:08 <AnMaster> no
17:43:23 <fizzie> I think we're finding the presentation more interesting than the content.
17:43:38 <Deewiant> I still think .name is the way to go
17:43:59 <AnMaster> I like .tusho
17:44:02 <fizzie> I still think you should've formatted the message as a triangle.
17:44:07 <AnMaster> just give some money to ICANN
17:44:09 <AnMaster> :D
17:44:10 <tusho> AnMaster: please stick to the possible possibilities.
17:44:16 <AnMaster> hehe ok
17:45:55 <AnMaster> tusho, .net would imply that you are related to network operations
17:46:03 <AnMaster> at least it did originally
17:46:10 <AnMaster> which they hadn't changed that
17:46:51 <tusho> yes, _originally_
17:46:56 <tusho> but I am a pragmatist
17:47:05 <tusho> today, .net is completely generic
17:47:14 <tusho> and feels the most generic too
17:47:20 <tusho> as opposed to .com which still feels slightly commercial
17:50:16 <AnMaster> hm ok
17:51:12 <fizzie> Maybe all three of .com/.net/.org, with the others redirecting to .net; then later on you can use tusho.com for your evil multinational corporation, and even later "the tusho foundation" can start using .org for their charity work.
17:51:25 <tusho> fizzie: That's three domains and therefore 3x$$$ :P
17:51:48 <fizzie> Oh, sure, if you're going to be _cheap_ about it...
17:52:13 <AnMaster> tusho foundation :D
17:52:35 <AnMaster> well.. anmaster foundation doesn't have the same ring to it
17:52:47 <AnMaster> would probably prefer to use my real name in such a situation
17:52:59 <tusho> THE AVID NORLANDER FOUNDATION
17:53:03 <tusho> imagine that in some ye olde serif font
17:53:07 <tusho> in copper letters
17:53:11 <Deewiant> avid? :-D
17:53:16 <AnMaster> no clue
17:53:17 <tusho> Deewiant: recalled from memory
17:53:21 <tusho> isn't that his name
17:53:25 <AnMaster> isn't it a video editing system
17:53:26 <Deewiant> I found that fairly funny
17:53:27 <AnMaster> avid I mean
17:53:29 <Deewiant> not sure why
17:53:36 <Deewiant> given what avid means
17:53:43 <AnMaster> I'm pretty sure Avid is some high end video editor
17:53:46 <Deewiant> tusho: but anyhoo, arvid
17:53:46 <AnMaster> like final cut pro
17:53:48 <AnMaster> or whatever
17:53:53 <tusho> Deewiant: ah
17:54:23 <AnMaster> tusho, probably just my family name in that case but heh
17:54:24 <Deewiant> maybe I read "avid" as applying to the foundation as a whole
17:54:27 <Deewiant> which would be kind of funny
17:54:33 <AnMaster> Deewiant, hahaha
17:54:40 <Deewiant> like "the awesome foundation of X"
17:54:41 <tusho> heh
17:55:31 <AnMaster> "the awesome and most supreme secret society of"
17:55:33 <AnMaster> whatever
17:56:09 <AnMaster> something like mason lodges or whatever they are called over there
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18:27:40 <tusho> okay, so
18:27:45 <tusho> any further comments on the domain name thing
18:27:48 <tusho> if not...tusho.net register go
18:28:57 <AnMaster> well one comment tusho
18:29:01 <AnMaster> "it's your money"
18:29:04 <AnMaster> "you decide"
18:29:23 <tusho> AnMaster: we are in a thing known as an "internet relay chat"
18:29:32 <tusho> we "discuss ideas" and "have debates"
18:29:36 <tusho> i was attempting to do the former
18:32:19 <tusho> so...
18:32:20 <tusho> anyone else?
18:40:27 <AnMaster> guess not
18:44:53 <tusho> hmm
18:44:58 <tusho> should I use the private domain stuff?
18:45:04 <tusho> So that people can't link tusho to Elliott Hird easily.
18:46:01 <fizzie> Given your reaction to that picasa face-detection tagging thing, I would assume so. Personally I haven't bothered with the whois privacy thing, though, but that's mostly laziness.
18:46:17 <tusho> It bumps the cost from £5 to £10, though.
18:46:39 <fizzie> Oh. I think my current (not cheap at all) registrar provides it for free.
18:46:50 <tusho> Who's that?
18:46:51 <fizzie> Should update the address in the domains, actually, moving next Saturday and if I don't fix it now it'll stay wrong for a year or two again.
18:47:06 <fizzie> register4less.com, I think. There was a link to it in userfriendly. :p
18:47:17 <tusho> Oh, those.
18:47:22 <tusho> I am using mydomain.com
18:47:36 <AnMaster> fizzie, if it is uf, then yes it is register4less.com
18:49:04 <tusho> Anyone have cheap registrar with private registration suggestions?
18:50:45 <tusho> ...
18:51:34 <fizzie> I'm grepping my logs. :p
18:51:36 <tusho> Timing out and registering anyway with privacy one assuming no further input...beep....
18:51:38 <tusho> Waiting...
18:51:55 <fizzie> I don't think I'll find anything very interesting there, so go ahead if you want.
18:52:04 <tusho> fizzie: Well, it costs $8.55 for domains
18:52:09 <tusho> and $6.99 to add privateness.
18:52:28 <tusho> £4.85 vs £8.82
18:52:29 <Deewiant> per month?
18:52:32 <Deewiant> or what?
18:52:34 <tusho> Deewiant: per year
18:52:45 <tusho> (yeah, sweating the small stuff ;))
18:53:08 <Deewiant> meh, tiny difference
18:53:12 <Deewiant> if you want the privacy, go for it
18:53:14 <tusho> yeah, ok
18:53:21 <Deewiant> if you don't, of course not then :-P
18:54:58 <fizzie> R4L is $15 a year, I think. I'm certain there have been multiple discussions about domain registration, with suggestions and everything, but I can't seem to figure out the correct words to grep for.
18:55:47 <tusho> PROCESSING ORDER
18:55:53 <fizzie> Ah, too late!
18:56:00 <tusho> It's just £9. :P
18:56:05 <fizzie> Good, though, can stop grepping.
18:58:02 * tusho turns off auto-renew
18:58:27 <tusho> Wait, why would I?
18:58:28 <tusho> Meh.
18:59:05 <tusho> Well, neat.
18:59:20 <tusho> Kind of anticlimatic, of course. :P
19:01:53 <tusho> wtf
19:01:57 <tusho> tusho.net resolves already
19:02:07 <tusho> ok
19:02:09 <tusho> time to ROCK
19:02:25 <Mony> it's burgertime to kick ass !
19:02:45 <Mony> http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=pqJ2vBIv130&eurl=http://www.dsfanboy.com/2008/07/23/its-burgertime-to-kick-ass/
19:19:24 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
19:19:32 -!- puzzlet has joined.
19:44:27 <tusho> http://tusho.net/blog/
19:44:27 <tusho> BEHOLD
19:45:57 <ihope> Your post is written in such a way that I wanted to read it quickly. I approve.
19:46:26 <ihope> I almost wish I had a blog.
19:46:31 <tusho> You do
19:47:16 * ihope nods
19:55:54 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
19:55:58 -!- puzzlet has joined.
20:00:25 -!- oerjan has joined.
20:01:47 <oerjan> <- 38
20:02:40 <tusho> oerjan: happy birthday
20:02:48 <oerjan> no not today
20:02:53 <tusho> oh.
20:02:57 <oerjan> put someone asked
20:03:10 <tusho> oh, right
20:03:26 <tusho> oerjan: think you're the oldest here, then
20:03:28 <tusho> congrats.
20:03:54 <oerjan> why thank you
20:04:13 <oerjan> and you may be the youngest i guess
20:04:26 <tusho> asierkerkrkerkerkaa is younger
20:04:31 <oerjan> oh
20:04:33 <tusho> he was 10 when I was 11 or 12
20:04:37 <tusho> now i'm 13
20:04:41 <tusho> but yes, second-youngest
20:05:39 <ihope> My days of being second youngest are even more over than my days of being youngest.
20:05:46 <ihope> Wait, that's not right.
20:05:49 <tusho> ihope: You're 15, that's ancient.
20:05:55 <tusho> We've had tons of 13-14 year olds in here, I believe.
20:06:04 <tusho> daveah is 13
20:06:23 <ihope> Oh.
20:06:29 <ihope> Well, darn it.
20:06:51 * ihope puts on a gray wig and grabs a cane
20:06:59 <tusho> Being the youngest ... isn't really an advantage. :P
20:07:04 <ihope> True.
20:07:10 <ihope> I can be the wisest! >:-)
20:07:11 <tusho> Heck, when I turned 13 last month I suddenly stopped being an illegal liar! (COPPA) Yayyyy.
20:07:12 <ihope> Or maybe not.
20:07:22 <tusho> ihope: You can be Honorary Wisest.
20:11:43 <oerjan> i'll be the honorary stupidest then
20:11:59 <ihope> I don't think the opposite of wise is stupid.
20:12:01 <oerjan> or maybe two titles is a bit much
20:12:07 <ihope> Or maybe it is.
20:12:16 <oerjan> naive maybe
20:12:21 <ihope> Yeah, that.
20:12:39 <ihope> Can I be both Honorary Wisest and Honorary Naïvest?
20:12:54 <oerjan> you can be Honorary Paradoxicalest
20:14:05 <ihope> You mean Most Honorary Paradoxical.
20:15:54 * ihope straps the obligatory boards
20:16:08 <oerjan> i refuse to lower myself to mere english grammar
20:17:05 <AnMaster> you make me feel old, and I'm 18
20:17:06 <AnMaster> :/
20:17:15 <AnMaster> why are the average age so low in the channel
20:17:17 <AnMaster> or is it?
20:17:33 <AnMaster> what about someone (not me) doing a mass highlight and asking
20:17:37 <AnMaster> too many idlers
20:17:47 <AnMaster> tusho, oerjan ihope ^
20:17:53 <AnMaster> one of you do it
20:17:57 <tusho> AnMaster: it isn't
20:18:02 <tusho> we have two packets of ages
20:18:07 <AnMaster> oh?
20:18:12 <tusho> average age 15.5 and average age around 20 or so
20:18:22 <AnMaster> hm
20:18:25 <tusho> obviously, me and asie and deveah are at the very low end of the first packet
20:18:35 <tusho> and oerjan & calamari are at the very very high end of the second packet
20:18:38 <tusho> possibly a packet of their own
20:18:43 <AnMaster> ais then?
20:18:46 <AnMaster> what about him
20:18:47 <tusho> but it's only 2 people so i bet it's just the regular odd ones out you get
20:18:48 <oerjan> the fishy packet
20:18:49 <tusho> AnMaster: he's 22
20:18:53 <AnMaster> ah right
20:18:54 <tusho> so the second packet
20:19:54 <AnMaster> puzzlet OkloThePol cherez kar8nga Mony olsner bsmntbombdood_ sebbu2 CO2Games GregorR SimonRC fizzie funktio lament Deewiant mtve RodgerTheGreat moozilla dbc lifthrasiir rodgort! Wake up! Stop idle (sorry if this included some non-idlers too)
20:19:57 * AnMaster ducks
20:20:03 <AnMaster> be active!
20:20:13 <RodgerTheGreat> what the fuck do you want
20:20:18 <AnMaster> read :)
20:20:28 <AnMaster> too many idlers on this channel
20:20:31 <AnMaster> need more active ppl
20:20:33 <sebbu2> and ?
20:20:40 <RodgerTheGreat> http://rodger.nonlogic.org/games/GraphScript/ <- play with this
20:20:42 <AnMaster> great!
20:20:43 <olsner> ... and one too many spamming AnMaster's :P
20:20:49 <AnMaster> see it worked!
20:21:00 <tusho> AnMaster: you know, you're a jerk.
20:21:04 <AnMaster> tusho, thanks
20:21:30 <tusho> you woulda thought you'd learn, having witnessed me doing that at least 2 times in the past...
20:21:37 <GregorR> What was that? Advertise something? http://codu.org/lingo/lingo.html
20:21:41 <AnMaster> tusho, yes I took it as a good example
20:21:49 <tusho> AnMaster: Hah.
20:21:54 <AnMaster> GregorR, no just trying to make non idlers get active
20:22:01 <tusho> guess what: They don't go active.
20:22:05 <tusho> They yell profanities at you then disappear.
20:22:08 <AnMaster> tusho, damn :(
20:22:24 <tusho> Anyway, if it's advertisement time... http://tusho.net/blog/
20:22:34 <AnMaster> http://rage.kuonet.org/~anmaster/cfunge/
20:22:35 <tusho> GregorR: I do not get that.
20:22:36 <AnMaster> if it is
20:22:52 <AnMaster> GregorR, rules?
20:22:59 <tusho> As if we could forget cfunge.
20:23:00 <tusho> (I wish...)
20:23:18 <GregorR> Guess five-letter words. If the letter is correct and in the correct location, it'll be orange, if it's correct but in the wrong location, it'll be yellow.
20:23:20 <RodgerTheGreat> someone design a programming language inspired by this: http://www.pown.it/1100
20:23:32 <tusho> RodgerTheGreat: ok i'll pick someone randomly
20:23:34 <Deewiant> GregorR: funge
20:23:38 <tusho> Choice selected: RodgerTheGreat
20:23:40 <Mony> omg AnMaster, let me be idle :)
20:23:44 <AnMaster> Mony, nah!
20:23:52 <Mony> erf
20:23:55 <GregorR> Deewiant: Has to be real words :P
20:23:56 <ihope> Cool, we've had... stuff.
20:23:56 <Deewiant> GregorR: oh, you explained that game of yours, heh, missed that
20:23:57 <tusho> Deewiant: http://codu.org/lingo/lingo.html
20:23:58 <AnMaster> <RodgerTheGreat> someone design a programming language inspired by this: http://www.pown.it/1100 <-- empty kate
20:24:00 <AnMaster> page*
20:24:04 <tusho> Deewiant: (needs javascript)
20:24:05 <AnMaster> KILL THE IDLERS! ;)
20:24:06 <tusho> AnMaster: it uses flash.
20:24:10 <tusho> so you might as well give up there.
20:24:13 <AnMaster> well
20:24:14 <AnMaster> right
20:24:24 <AnMaster> RodgerTheGreat, what is it about? I got no flash
20:24:29 <tusho> Colin Mochrie.
20:24:37 <AnMaster> tusho, eh?
20:24:42 <tusho> It is about Colin Mochrie.
20:25:34 <RodgerTheGreat> AnMaster: it's a kaleidoscope of dancing and techno music. I propose a rave-based language.
20:25:43 <tusho> The dancing is Colin Mochrie.
20:26:09 <tusho> oerjan: Here, I told you where the bathroom is: http://tusho.net/blog/yes#comment-14
20:26:13 <Mony> [21:04] <tusho> now i'm 13 <-- so young \o/
20:26:16 <tusho> I believe you were looking for it.[1]
20:26:17 <tusho> References
20:26:18 <tusho> ----------------
20:26:23 <tusho> [1] http://tusho.net/blog/yes#comment-13
20:26:50 * ihope downloads GraphScript
20:26:59 <RodgerTheGreat> hooray
20:27:10 <tusho> graphscript looks neat
20:27:16 <RodgerTheGreat> double hooray
20:27:23 <tusho> from the description before i looked at the ref though I was expecting PostScripts APL
20:27:27 <tusho> *PostScript's
20:27:32 <tusho> which would be amazing also
20:29:07 <RodgerTheGreat> it's not as powerful as PS yet, but it has a number of useful features
20:29:29 <RodgerTheGreat> you can do recursion and self-modification, and it's very easy to integrate with other applications
20:30:18 <RodgerTheGreat> I'm currently working on tweaking the interpreter to handle errors more gracefully and adding some commands that'll let you create and manipulate data structures
20:30:19 <AnMaster> ihope, link?
20:30:44 <AnMaster> to graphscript I mean
20:30:55 <RodgerTheGreat> http://rodger.nonlogic.org/games/GraphScript/
20:31:06 <tusho> AnMaster: It's java!
20:31:13 <tusho> You don't have much luck with RodgerTheGreat links.
20:31:16 <AnMaster> tusho, I do have gcj...
20:31:22 <tusho> Good luck with that.
20:31:43 <AnMaster> and I have jdk too
20:31:57 <RodgerTheGreat> well, it has a much better chance of working with something like gcj than one of my games
20:32:09 <RodgerTheGreat> I'd expect the Application frontend to work fine
20:32:24 <AnMaster> RodgerTheGreat, that input marker. isn't it blinking rather quickly
20:32:26 <RodgerTheGreat> does gcj support Swing at all, though?
20:32:34 <AnMaster> I mean it is like 200-300 blinks / second
20:32:39 <AnMaster> rather irritating
20:32:47 <AnMaster> RodgerTheGreat, no idea, I used appletviewer http://rodger.nonlogic.org/games/GraphScript/
20:32:47 <RodgerTheGreat> AnMaster: probably. The applet was a quick hack
20:32:49 <AnMaster> works too
20:33:16 <RodgerTheGreat> the application version is much more comfortable to work with
20:33:32 <AnMaster> RodgerTheGreat, do you have a hello world example?
20:34:09 <RodgerTheGreat> uh... "0 0 0 80g 20 20 [Hello, World!] 70g"
20:34:46 <AnMaster> RodgerTheGreat, make paste work in applet
20:34:50 <AnMaster> anyway: ok
20:34:51 <AnMaster> so what
20:35:02 <AnMaster> RodgerTheGreat, what is so special about this language=
20:35:02 <AnMaster> ?
20:35:06 <RodgerTheGreat> but download the application version and you'll be able to copy and paste and stuff
20:35:18 -!- cherez has left (?).
20:35:38 <RodgerTheGreat> it's simple, it's in pure java, it can do many of the basic things PS can do.
20:35:45 <tusho> and it's rather esoteric
20:35:46 <AnMaster> hm ok
20:35:49 <tusho> from the looks
20:36:00 <AnMaster> I mean, Feather makes me go "wow"
20:36:07 <RodgerTheGreat> it's stack-based, it has reasonably powerful graphics and math capabilities. What more do you want?
20:36:10 <tusho> not all languages are incredibly world-shattering, AnMaster
20:36:12 <AnMaster> but this is more like: "ok nice, however not my cup of tea"
20:36:19 <tusho> feather is one of those, but...
20:36:39 <AnMaster> tusho, well it may not shatter, it could if you rewrite it to do so ;)
20:36:51 <ihope> Is /// world-shattering?
20:36:51 <oerjan> hm "cup of tea"
20:36:59 <tusho> ihope: No :P
20:37:02 <ihope> Darn.
20:37:04 <AnMaster> what is /// ?
20:37:06 <tusho> oerjan: british idioms, go figure
20:37:09 <AnMaster> doxygen comment?
20:37:11 <tusho> AnMaster: ihopeylanguage
20:37:16 <oerjan> a language mixing Chef with a Japanese tea ceremony
20:37:22 <AnMaster> tusho, was trying to add idioms ;)
20:37:36 <AnMaster> tusho, someone said I lacked that, so why not add it
20:37:58 <AnMaster> tusho, anyway I assume it was correct usage?
20:38:03 <tusho> yes
20:38:03 <tusho> but...
20:38:07 <AnMaster> but what?
20:38:07 <tusho> you're not british. stop that. ;)
20:38:08 <ihope> /// is that language that's like a horrible version of Thue.
20:38:13 <AnMaster> tusho, haha!
20:38:23 <RodgerTheGreat> it's not world-shattering, but GS has very elegant semantics and will soon have very elegant data structure manipulation. Think the simplicity of LISP data structures done in a different way.
20:38:29 <oerjan> jolly good, old sport
20:38:53 <tusho> RodgerTheGreat: it'd be interesting if the program was a graphic itself, not like piet, but in the sense of lines squares and such
20:38:59 <tusho> and it modified its own playfield, with it off to the side
20:39:03 <tusho> (infinite playfield)
20:39:06 <AnMaster> tusho, would be cool
20:39:07 <AnMaster> yes
20:39:09 <tusho> loops would be drawing over yourself to self-modify
20:39:20 <RodgerTheGreat> it could be done, but that's not suitable for what this is designed for
20:39:23 <tusho> true
20:39:24 <tusho> still :P
20:39:47 <RodgerTheGreat> most of the things I design try to be more utilitarian than just straight-up weird
20:39:56 <AnMaster> and: it would make me go not "wow" but "cool, nice!"
20:39:59 <RodgerTheGreat> not that weird isn't interesting
20:41:02 * ihope tries to randomly generate interesting /// programs
20:41:48 <AnMaster> ihope, got a link to a wiki page about ///?
20:42:09 <AnMaster> or any other link
20:43:07 <tusho> AnMaster: why not search the wiki.
20:43:10 <AnMaster> searching for /// on the wiki didn't workj
20:43:11 <AnMaster> work*
20:43:18 <AnMaster> tusho, it doesn't work on the wiki
20:43:21 <tusho> k
20:43:22 <AnMaster> returns you to main page
20:43:23 <oerjan> AnMaster: Slashes
20:43:40 <AnMaster> ah
20:43:46 <AnMaster> thanks
20:47:17 <AnMaster> ihope, how does /// print stuff?
20:48:35 <AnMaster> does it simply output the program itself at the end?
20:48:42 <RodgerTheGreat> AnMaster: it just "prints" what the program boils down to
20:48:53 <RodgerTheGreat> when it can't evaluate any more expressions, the result is printed
20:49:15 <oerjan> actually i think it prints underway
20:49:29 <oerjan> whenever the program starts with something other than /
20:49:45 <RodgerTheGreat> the main reason I'd wager it's not turing complete is that your programs are constantly fighting some serious entropy
20:49:52 <AnMaster> now what computational class is this
20:49:57 <RodgerTheGreat> but I think it'd be close
20:49:58 <AnMaster> I'd guess it isn't turing complete
20:50:01 <AnMaster> but I can't be sure
20:50:02 <ihope> AnMaster: Nobody Knows(TM).
20:50:17 <oerjan> AnMaster: we never managed to produce a nontrivial loop
20:50:19 <AnMaster> ihope, try finding out
20:50:20 <RodgerTheGreat> you can construct logic networks, so you can compute a lot of things
20:50:26 <AnMaster> hm interesting
20:50:30 <oerjan> or prove that one doesn't exist
20:50:31 <ihope> You can certainly do many finite computations.
20:50:42 <RodgerTheGreat> yup
20:50:47 <AnMaster> and basic infinite loops
20:50:52 <AnMaster> but not complex ones
20:50:55 <AnMaster> as it seems
20:51:01 -!- Linus` has joined.
20:51:12 <RodgerTheGreat> the more complex the contents of the loop, the more complex the loop
20:51:18 <RodgerTheGreat> which is the bitch part
20:51:22 <ihope> Maybe its computational class is uncomputable.
20:51:23 <AnMaster> bounded storage machine?
20:51:30 <RodgerTheGreat> AnMaster: sounds plausible
20:51:41 <RodgerTheGreat> but we can't be certain
20:51:41 <AnMaster> can't prove it though
20:51:54 <AnMaster> hm try implementing various ones
20:51:59 <ihope> Storage is theoretically infinite, but knowing that's useless if you can't produce a non-trivial infinite loop.
20:52:09 <AnMaster> like fsa, bsm, tc and so on
20:52:31 <RodgerTheGreat> it's a very intriguing language, because it seems so *possible* for it to be TC
20:52:36 <ihope> What is BSM?
20:52:45 <ihope> Oh, right, it's that.
20:52:48 <AnMaster> bounded storage machine
20:52:56 <AnMaster> fsa would be finite-state automaton
20:52:58 <ihope> How's that different from FSA, again?
20:53:14 <RodgerTheGreat> FSAs don't have storage, per se
20:53:24 <AnMaster> well a computer is a BSM iirc
20:53:26 <RodgerTheGreat> but the two are computationally equivalent
20:53:29 <RodgerTheGreat> it's semantics
20:53:32 <AnMaster> RodgerTheGreat, oh they are?
20:53:49 <RodgerTheGreat> like the difference between a DFA and a NFA
20:53:54 <RodgerTheGreat> AnMaster: if I understand correctly
20:54:05 <AnMaster> well I'm not sure either
20:54:14 <RodgerTheGreat> I'm pretty confident
20:54:19 <AnMaster> ok
20:54:21 <AnMaster> I'm not :)
20:54:42 <AnMaster> I find the computational models rather hard to grasp(right word?)
20:54:48 <ihope> Well, we've pretty much already attempted an FSA of sorts. The problem is how to circumvent... the difficulty.
20:55:10 <ihope> Hard to grasp, indeed.
20:55:17 <RodgerTheGreat>  /// solutions tend to be very much non-general
20:56:48 <AnMaster> RodgerTheGreat, maybe "able to solve any specific problem for specific in-parameters"?
20:56:49 <RodgerTheGreat> but on the FSA/BSM thing, the reason they're equivalent is because you could map every combination of machine state/storage contents to an FSA state, because they'd be enumerable
20:57:04 <RodgerTheGreat> it's just a terrible way to try to express them
20:57:41 <AnMaster> or try to send some innocent letter to some scientist and ask a innocent looking question about it, hoping they get interested
20:57:43 <AnMaster> could work :D
20:58:24 <RodgerTheGreat> hm. Maybe I'll slip something under my compiler theory professor's door and see what comes of it.
20:58:42 <AnMaster> RodgerTheGreat, heh, maybe he will come up with a lot of work on it later on :D
20:59:54 <ihope> "Hi. I was reading a book about Thomas Nettleton when the author mentioned this notation he commonly used. I'm having trouble figuring out how to express certain things in this notation. Could you help me? [Insert description of /// here]"
21:00:37 <RodgerTheGreat> or be more forthcoming and ask about the computational class of the language
21:00:57 <AnMaster> ihope, heheh
21:01:06 <Mony> 'night
21:01:11 -!- Mony has quit ("À vaincre sans péril on triomphe sans gloire...").
21:01:15 <AnMaster> anyway something could work yes
21:03:35 <ihope> More forthcoming: "I was reading an old book, now out of print, about computer science when the author mentioned a famous language based on replacement. He stated that finding its computational class was left as an exercise for the reader. I'm having trouble figuring out what it is. Could you help me?"
21:03:36 <dbc> Okay, I'm not idling right now.
21:03:58 <AnMaster> ihope, that would be slightly lieing
21:04:01 <AnMaster> lying*
21:04:02 <AnMaster> err
21:04:05 <AnMaster> whatever the spelling is
21:04:08 <AnMaster> liing?
21:04:18 <AnMaster> ling?
21:04:19 <AnMaster> bah
21:04:33 <AnMaster> ihope, and what if he/she asks "what book"?
21:04:35 <ihope> Lying, indeed.
21:05:11 <ihope> AnMaster: tell him it was "An Introduction to Computer Science".
21:05:26 <AnMaster> ihope, oh?
21:05:37 <ihope> Or "Elementary Computer Science".
21:05:44 <fizzie> Fundamentals of.
21:05:48 <AnMaster> sounds like that title has been reused
21:05:57 <ihope> They're very reusable titles.
21:06:09 <AnMaster> now risk is asking for ISBN or something like that
21:06:25 <RodgerTheGreat> An Introduction to the Fundamentals of Elementary Computer Science for Beginners"
21:06:27 <ihope> Tell him it doesn't have one, or that you've been unable to find it.
21:07:00 <AnMaster> anyway since I'm in last year of high school now, I suggest someone at higher level
21:07:03 <AnMaster> maybe RodgerTheGreat could do it
21:07:49 <RodgerTheGreat> or say "Hey, Dr. Carr- I found an interesting language online, and I'm curious about it's computational class: [/// semantics]"
21:08:11 <ihope> RodgerTheGreat: also known as Russell and Norvig and Douglas and Goedel and Escher and Bach and Mozart and Beethoven and Bourbaki's Really Big, Really Green Bookabouts.
21:08:26 <ihope> Or suchabouts, anyway.
21:08:34 <AnMaster> RodgerTheGreat, hm
21:08:56 <AnMaster> Dr Carr? odd name
21:09:27 <oerjan> ihope: too few painters i think?
21:12:22 <oerjan> except douglas is such a common name i cannot find out who you mean
21:12:47 <RodgerTheGreat> AnMaster: here, stalk him or whatever it is you do: http://www.cs.mtu.edu/~carr/
21:13:34 <AnMaster> RodgerTheGreat, hahah :P
21:14:21 <tusho> Yay, http://tusho.net/ now has a real front page and an about page
21:17:01 <oerjan> "You should have been redirected to tusho.net. Tell me this happened!
21:17:05 <tusho> yes
21:17:06 <tusho> thanks
21:17:07 <tusho> :P
21:17:12 <tusho> just adding that code
21:17:26 <tusho> tada
21:17:56 <oerjan> also, he likes really big fonts
21:18:06 <tusho> only for that page
21:18:12 <tusho> it's meant to be simple and direct :P
21:18:16 <tusho> tusho blogs, tusho is...
21:18:49 <AnMaster> tusho, the font at http://tusho.net/about/ is *WAY TOO LARGE*
21:18:56 <AnMaster> and you forgot your age
21:18:58 <tusho> no it's not, it's lovely
21:19:02 <tusho> and i most certainly did not _forget_
21:19:10 <tusho> anyway, it's meant to fit in the theme of the homepage
21:19:33 <oerjan> i'm sure he remembers it quite vividly
21:19:43 <tusho> yes, i don't tend to forget my age all the time
21:19:51 <tusho> but i also don't go around telling anyone either.
21:20:13 <fizzie> I do; I always have to ask other people, or start subtracting years. It is very difficult.
21:20:31 <oerjan> apparently tusho is male, and a penguin
21:20:44 <tusho> yes
21:20:53 <tusho> a messenger penguin sent by the gods in particular
21:20:59 <tusho> (The story behind that one is... odd.)
21:21:22 <oerjan> stranger things have happened
21:22:27 <fizzie> In the Discworld mythos, Patina, goddess of wisdom, carries a penguin on her shoulder. </trivia>
21:22:28 <tusho> (In another channel, the topic was "things to reply when annoying people asked you asl", and someone put "penguin" in the S field. Meanwhile, someone else was taking a "WHAT KIND OF PERSON ARE YOU" test for kicks and it turned out they were a messenger of the gods. Since the two messages came in such close proximity, I /nick PenguinOfTheGods'd. Then I decided I needed a new email account soon after, and...)
21:22:33 <tusho> Think that got all through
21:23:21 <oerjan> S for species, right
21:23:34 <tusho> no, penguin is a sex.
21:23:41 <oerjan> IS NOT
21:23:47 <tusho> Is SO
21:23:57 <oerjan> but then you cannot also be male
21:24:07 <tusho> no
21:24:08 <tusho> i can
21:24:15 <tusho> and very soon the LHC will prove it!
21:24:19 <tusho> i am a higgs bosom
21:25:00 <oerjan> ah but when the LHC goes online, the world will be rewound to August 10, 1983
21:25:05 <tusho> yes
21:25:11 <tusho> and then i shall become POKEY THE PENGUIN!!
21:26:57 <oerjan> until that tragic accident
21:28:13 -!- Slereah_ has joined.
21:28:17 <Slereah_> Hello dudes
21:28:59 <Linus`> hey
21:30:14 <oerjan> *chirp*
21:30:22 <RodgerTheGreat> COME CHILD, OBSERVE THE CONTENTS OF MY HAND
21:30:33 <Slereah_> Is that feces?
21:30:51 <tusho> Slereah_
21:30:53 <tusho> you know melab
21:30:59 <tusho> that wiki guy who added tons of languages in his userspace
21:31:02 <tusho> and made a sitemap of his userspace
21:31:07 <tusho> and weird categories and stuff?
21:31:12 <Slereah_> Yeah. I saw he added back all the Esco links
21:31:15 <tusho> YES
21:31:18 <tusho> he is an escoer!
21:31:26 <tusho> just makes it even hilariouser
21:31:34 <tusho> [[Tusho stop removing the esco link it is not spam and it has been there for a while. Unless you got consensus from admins or the rest of the community do not make such an edit without sufficient support. This is not your it is Graue's site so please do not remove the link if you do so again I'll report you. --Melab 18:31, 6 September 2008 (UTC) ]]
21:31:40 <RodgerTheGreat> damnit I can't find that pokey strip
21:31:47 <tusho> I'd paste him snippets of our irc chat but he'd just cut himself.
21:33:48 <Slereah_> Gaiz
21:33:54 <Slereah_> Let's make a consensus on EsCo.
21:34:10 <tusho> hah
21:34:19 <oerjan> assuming esco actually implements those languages, i agree with Melab on that
21:34:57 <oerjan> even if the implementation should not be top quality in someone's view
21:35:35 <tusho> oerjan: it's not to do with the implementation quality
21:35:57 <tusho> i could go into specifics, but it might be simpler for you just to grep esco in your logs and read
21:36:10 <oerjan> i don't have logs
21:36:18 <tusho> ask someone who does :p
21:36:31 <tusho> Nevertheless, it was quite an active channel at the time and there was pretty clear consensus for removing the links.
21:38:01 <oerjan> you have a date?
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21:39:32 <tusho> oerjan: afraid not.
21:43:35 <Slereah> D:<
21:44:42 <oerjan> (for the discussion, in case that wasn't clear :D )
21:45:36 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | uhm why are you skipping 10 bits in the 8->7 translation?.
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21:50:03 <OkloThePol> hi all of you i'm new here what's this channel about
21:50:55 <oerjan> it's about raising undead evil gods and stuff like that
21:51:12 <oerjan> also, babes
21:51:42 <OkloThePol> hot babes you say?!?
21:51:43 <oerjan> with or without tentacles
21:51:48 -!- OkloThePol has changed nick to oklobol.
21:52:12 <oklobol> i'm all for hot babes, but tentacles not so much what's the channel for no tentacles but still babes?
21:52:26 <oerjan> try #vanilla
21:52:47 <oklobol> there's no one there when do all the babes come?
21:53:35 <oerjan> all the babes have tentacles these days
21:53:46 <oklobol> it seems one of my numerous brothers wants to use the computer, so, see ya
21:53:48 -!- oklobol has changed nick to oklopol.
21:54:48 <fizzie> Gah, a whole hive of oklopols.
21:55:35 <oerjan> spawn of one of those undead gods, undoubtedly
21:56:02 <oklopol> undead god? now *that's* immortal
21:56:29 <oerjan> also immoral but they don't care
21:57:14 <oerjan> i mean given how hard they are to kill in the first place, you'd think they'd have the decency to stay dead
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22:12:39 <tusho> .
22:12:56 <Slereah> !
22:13:38 <tusho> Slereah: http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Melab/Esco
22:13:42 <tusho> could his user subpages get any uselesser
22:14:06 <tusho> http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Melab/Directory
22:14:08 <tusho> Hey! His sitemap is back!
22:14:10 <tusho> jesus christ
22:14:33 <Slereah> Heh.
22:30:04 <GregorR> Hrm
22:30:18 <GregorR> Can somebody of fixing the grammars on EsCo page?
22:32:56 <tusho> Can someone _remove_ the EsCo page?
22:33:03 <tusho> :p
22:33:16 <tusho> hmm, I wonder why we're calling it EsCo
22:33:19 <tusho> it's called "esco"
22:33:24 <tusho> we must get these things right!
22:34:26 <Slereah> Because it's Esoteric Compiler
22:34:39 <tusho> No
22:34:41 <tusho> It's Esoteric Combin
22:34:42 <tusho> e
22:34:52 <tusho> and read their page! In its Infinite Wisdom, it uses LOWERCASE "esco".
22:35:04 <Slereah> Butt3
22:35:51 <GregorR> The page uses both.
22:36:03 <tusho> Oh no!
22:36:06 <tusho> What will we do?
22:37:52 <Slereah> Mass suicide?
22:38:28 <GregorR> Mass murder/suicide?
22:38:30 <GregorR> Mass murder/suicide/gay orgy?
22:38:45 <tusho> Hmm.
22:38:46 <tusho> All of them.
22:38:47 <tusho> At once.
22:39:07 <Slereah> I WILL SHOVE MY DICK THROUGH YOUR EYE SOCKET
22:39:10 <tusho> Ok, so we have to kill ourselves while murdering the others, while sexually stimulating each other.
22:39:11 <tusho> Got that?
22:39:18 <tusho> Ah, combine the first and the last.
22:39:19 <tusho> Clever.
22:39:21 <tusho> Everyone ready?
22:39:38 <Slereah> I just got back from a day of gay sex
22:39:38 <tusho> 3..2...1...OOOOOHYEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGHFGHFAHFGAHJFGFJAHFGJAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAyyyghdufhuhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
22:39:40 <GregorR> I'm finding it difficult to ... err ... "motivate" myself
22:39:42 <Slereah> Can't this wait?
22:39:49 <tusho> Hm. Looks like I did just the suicide part.
22:40:00 <tusho> Apparently I find suicide sexually attractive.
22:40:03 <tusho> That's some sucky fetish.
22:40:48 <Slereah> Does the suicide have to succeed?
22:40:52 <tusho> yes
22:40:54 <oerjan> and here i thought you were blowing things out of proportion already...
22:41:03 <tusho> Rolleyes
22:41:59 <oerjan> @_@_@
22:42:04 <tusho> >.<
22:43:19 <GregorR> Is @_@_@ supposed to be a (disembodied) eye rolling?
22:44:04 <Slereah> oerjan has three eyes.
22:44:16 <oerjan> i thought that much was obvious.
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22:46:40 <Slereah> I hate Melab.
22:46:50 <Slereah> None of his fav languages are mine :,(((
22:47:12 <tusho> Slereah: Esco doesn't even implement them. It's UNIVERSAL.
22:47:17 <tusho> That's how much you suck.
22:48:25 <tusho> Oh jeez.
22:48:29 <tusho> Is there a wiki admin anywhere?
22:48:32 <tusho> Obliterate this crap: http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Melab/Jumble
22:48:39 <tusho> Banging on a keyboard does not a page make.
22:49:37 <Slereah> I guess he proved you wrong there!
22:49:41 <tusho> Oh, true.
22:49:48 <tusho> That innovator. Such a great thinker.
22:54:12 <oerjan> he sure knows how to push buttons
22:54:53 <Slereah> Maybe it's a secret esoteric troll
22:55:15 <Slereah> Maybe he's that Esme guy too D:
22:57:28 <oerjan> Whateve
22:57:46 <tusho> Whateve!!!!!Whateve!!!!!Whateve!!!!!WHATEVE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
22:57:49 <tusho> esme 2
22:58:14 <oerjan> the esolang that _really_ doesn't care
23:08:53 <tusho> wwwwwwwwwwwwww
23:08:54 <tusho> aaaaaaaaa
23:09:46 <Slereah> tttt
23:10:01 <oerjan> vvvvvvvvvvv
23:10:52 <tusho> zzzalshdaskdhksa
23:12:10 <Slereah> That was a great Melab article right there
23:12:16 <Slereah> Let's put it on his user page
23:12:32 <tusho> no
23:12:34 <tusho> read his early contributions
23:12:39 <tusho> he wants User: and user_talk: pages to be locked
23:12:43 <tusho> so that people can stop others editing them
23:12:50 <tusho> do you wish to deny the god of esco?
23:13:11 <Slereah> Maybe we should just make him admin
23:13:39 <tusho> +1
23:14:10 <Slereah> "if you do so again I'll report you"
23:14:11 <Slereah> D:
23:14:17 <tusho> yes
23:14:20 <tusho> to the higher authorities
23:14:23 <tusho> like ais523
23:14:26 <tusho> i'm so scared of him!
23:14:45 <tusho> xP
23:15:27 <Slereah> He'll bend you into the shape of a 2,3 machine with his bare hands!
23:15:47 <tusho> :o
23:15:51 <tusho> i'll be turing complete
23:15:53 <tusho> aweeeeeeeeesome
23:16:02 <tusho> infinite memor
23:16:03 <tusho> y
23:16:33 <Slereah> You'll be TC only for programs of infinite length D:
23:16:38 <Slereah> How lame is that.
23:16:47 <tusho> it's ok, my penis is infinite
23:16:49 <tusho> I can just write programs on that
23:16:59 <Slereah> Also you'll have a really shitty way to express results
23:17:13 <tusho> I'll shit out the results?
23:17:14 <tusho> Kinky.
23:18:49 <Slereah> You'll be on the same level as EsCo then!
23:19:38 <tusho> So let's get this straight, I'd be horribly mutilated into the shape of a turing machine, where I will write programs on my infinitely long penis, and then shit out the results? And the reward for that is infinite memory.
23:20:39 <Slereah> Or something.
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