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03:57:44 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | THE LAST DIGIT OF PI IS 3 (in base reverse-10).
03:58:09 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | it's enterprisey.
03:58:27 <Figs> Does it do something every time you say "optbot!"?
03:58:28 <optbot> Figs: I certainly agree with that :P
03:58:55 <Figs> optbot, you're creepy.
03:58:55 <optbot> Figs: putting arbitrary numbers on the stack isn't easy eh?
03:58:57 <GregorR> I'm going to rape optbot to death.
03:58:58 <optbot> GregorR: i want to define 3-5 ports and then have the rest implementation defined
03:59:16 <GregorR> I'll "define" your "ports", optbot.
03:59:17 <optbot> GregorR: Oh. Your friend there.
04:03:08 <Figs> are any of you knowledgeable with x86 asm?
04:03:28 <optbot> CO2Games: I wonder whether PowerPC would fit that criterion.
04:03:36 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | still 4th here.
04:03:47 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | DEFMACRO is the only way to do some stuff.
04:08:01 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | for at least *one* of the new operators.
04:08:18 <Figs> Optbot, do you know anything about x86 programming?
04:08:19 <optbot> Figs: Just changed stack to tape and operation to symbol
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05:19:21 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | !lazyk.
05:19:26 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | with exceptions, special cases, hard to evolve and so on..
05:19:32 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | not sure why clear works now.
05:19:37 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | it's written by a complete nutjob. A crazy person. Somebody who is not sane. Just like people who come up with alternative tunings..
05:20:15 <optbot> CO2Games: 99.999% of IRC servers ignore what the hostname is and just go with it.
05:20:44 <optbot> CO2Games: http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/esoteric/psox.txt
05:26:11 <Sgeo> That's an old version of PSOX, which is currently dead.
05:26:18 <Sgeo> *of the PSOX spec
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09:45:36 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | ok.
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12:22:30 <tusho> this place only has 21 members?
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12:54:18 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | axo2i has exited due to signal 11 (SIGSEGV)..
12:56:28 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | I was ignoring you..
12:56:42 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | http://www.explosm.net/comics/644/.
12:56:50 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | so don't store them as 32-bit..
12:56:54 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | hmm.
12:56:57 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | alright.
12:56:59 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | it's 'adding' to the output, but it's in the console, so it's "boxed in" because you can't see it directly from the program?.
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13:36:37 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | F!34,.
13:36:43 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | =39.
13:36:46 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | that syntax is odd. ;P.
13:36:49 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | ...that won't be a good test.
13:36:53 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | it's been fun.
13:37:00 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | of course, the literal parser, which takes some string and tries to chomp it off the beginning of the string you're trying to parse..
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13:52:36 <tusho> oklobol: is that your topic
15:16:05 <CO2Games> Wow, assembly is easier than it looks
15:16:35 <Slereah> Well, compared to Brainfuck, it's a breeze :D
15:16:47 <Slereah> it has arithemtic operations and all!
15:17:31 <Slereah> Random access memory and flow control!
15:17:54 <Slereah> When I first read the description of Assembly, I was actually surprised
15:18:03 <Slereah> I was expecting something much more primitive
15:19:09 <Slereah> come on, it has numbers! D:
15:20:28 <CO2Games> Hell, drainfuck has words instead of bytes
15:20:45 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | .......................where?...... i don't wanna know.
15:27:15 <CO2Games> So I could make a brainfuck -> assembly translator and use a simple assembler to make it a brainfuck compiler?
15:28:34 <Slereah> There's plenty of BF compilers around
15:44:43 <tusho> CO2Games: optbot just quotes a random log line when you talk to it
15:45:32 <optbot> Slereah: that would be fantastic
15:45:36 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | if you look at them with a debugger, though, they often look middle-endian.
15:49:41 <Slereah> Optbot, solve the halting problem
15:50:08 <optbot> tusho: right, MiniMAX.
15:50:14 <tusho> optbot: MiniMAX solves the halting problem?
15:50:20 <tusho> optbot: Aggh! I lost it! Fuck you.
15:50:21 <optbot> tusho: pretty picture tho
15:50:29 <tusho> optbot: Yeah, MiniMAX solving the halting problem WOULD be nice.
15:50:29 <optbot> tusho: actually take http://rafb.net/p/o2X0l033.html, the ASCII art had an error
15:50:34 <tusho> optbot: That's a 404.
15:50:35 <optbot> tusho: you can implement the Churches in types
15:50:41 <tusho> optbot: Yes, I knew that... back to the topic?
15:56:39 <optbot> Slereah: smetana can do that
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16:04:55 <Slereah> Are the sentences totally random?
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16:51:19 <ais523> tusho: say something you've never said before
16:51:23 <ais523> I want to check that this Internet connection is genuine and I'm not just getting cached stuff
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16:51:43 <ais523> beh, must be a caching effect after all...
16:52:06 <Slereah> ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff
16:52:16 <ais523> Slereah: have you said that before?
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16:52:39 <CO2Games> I'm considering replacing my drainfuck cache system with a stack
16:53:08 <Slereah> HELLO PEOPLE, I AM NEW ON THIS CHANNEL
16:53:12 <CO2Games> Like a stack of data so you don't interfere with other stack values
16:53:19 <Slereah> I think you're getting old stuff
16:53:30 <tusho> Meanwhile, I have blogged about nazi dinosaurs. http://tusho.net/blog/
16:54:01 <CO2Games> ^ uploads to the cache, and V downloads from it
16:54:52 <Slereah> Around stacks, never relax.
16:55:06 <ais523> Slereah: clearly you've never seen Underload, then
16:55:32 <CO2Games> You see, I could have a stack as a replacement for the cache.
16:56:31 <tusho> Also meanwhile, I am working on StoryGen v2.
16:56:54 <tusho> For the unwashed masses: The premise is this:
16:56:59 <tusho> * You see the latest fragment of the current story, and only the latest.
16:57:01 <tusho> * You can submit a new fragment, which then becomes the latest.
16:57:04 <tusho> * After 25 fragments, the story is finished, all the fragments are put next to each other, the story is moved to the archive, and a new one begins.
16:57:08 <CO2Games> Well hmm...then again there is the & jump that uses the cache
16:57:40 <CO2Games> I could make use of * for something
17:00:10 <CO2Games> I already have the cache and it's already implemented in the jump command
17:00:39 <tusho> CO2Games: why are you so afraid of deleting code
17:00:48 <tusho> it's like "oh but I already wrote this bug, I can't remove it"
17:00:50 <CO2Games> I don't want to lose backwards compatibility
17:01:00 <tusho> tell me, how many drainfuck programs are there?
17:01:08 <tusho> how many not written by you>?
17:01:21 <tusho> then you can revise it as you wish.
17:01:28 <CO2Games> But the original implementation should still remain
17:02:03 <tusho> You evidently have decided that it's bad.
17:02:48 <tusho> what is the point of keeping something bad for no reason
17:02:51 <CO2Games> I don't want to be the guy who removes obsolete support and yet complains about no 5.25" floppy support in xp
17:03:07 <tusho> enjoy your bloated as hell code, I guess.
17:03:23 <tusho> I doubt even ais523 would complain about lack of 5.25" floppy support, though.
17:03:49 <CO2Games> I have a 5.25" working perfectly fine on my dos machine
17:04:04 <tusho> pasting this from another channel since it's funny (about the LHC going off):
17:04:05 <tusho> <tusho> particle -> <- particle
17:04:05 <tusho> <tusho> particle -> <- particle
17:04:05 <tusho> <tusho> particle -><- particle
17:04:05 <tusho> <tusho> <- nazi riding dinosaur wielding laser gun ->
17:05:01 <CO2Games> Well perhaps I could have a command to switch between the stack and cache for the ^ and V commands
17:05:24 <tusho> CO2Games: jesus christ
17:05:32 <tusho> you've already decided the cache is inferior to the stack
17:05:36 <tusho> so just TRASH THE CACHE
17:05:50 <oklobol> when are we gonna die, tusho?
17:06:04 <oklobol> wasn't it somewhere around here?
17:06:05 <tusho> oklobol: after the nazis riding dinosaurs while wielding laser guns kill us all
17:06:15 <CO2Games> The stack isn't fully compatible with the cache
17:06:23 <tusho> oklobol: your mom o clock
17:06:27 <Slereah> The LHC is gonna destroy the universe, dontcha know
17:06:43 <CO2Games> I want to keep backwards compatibility
17:07:13 <Slereah> Will there be Brainfuck in heaven?
17:07:21 <Slereah> Or will we be damned to the Malbolge?
17:07:41 <CO2Games> The cool thing about brainfuck is you can write it in class and the teacher will be like "wtfh"
17:08:04 <Slereah> In what class can you write about it?
17:08:40 <CO2Games> Just write it down while the teacher blabbers on about how john mccain aided in the revolutionary war
17:09:34 <CO2Games> His social security number is 8. He infact said that himself
17:09:52 <Slereah> Who was 1, the founder of the social security?
17:11:17 <tusho> CO2Games: no it isn't
17:11:32 <CO2Games> But he did say it none-the-less.
17:11:54 <CO2Games> The Tonight Show with Jay Leno
17:12:54 <Slereah> Was it the real McCain, or just a corpse dressed like him?
17:13:14 <tusho> Slereah: What is the difference.
17:13:16 <CO2Games> He walked in and sat down and talked and shit
17:13:24 <Slereah> One of them can get legally elected
17:13:56 <Slereah> One of them is a disfigured goulish figure, and one of them is a corpse
17:15:22 <CO2Games> I should have a command that switches the cache into stack mode
17:18:52 <tusho> Does it run anything yet?
17:18:53 <CO2Games> Yay I'm working on a $ command now.
17:19:02 <ais523> I have a version of the compiler which in theory could be final but which probably will need tweaking at some point
17:19:25 <ais523> also the library's finished but not tested, the linker's potentially finished
17:19:34 <ais523> so all I have left is the assembler, and I've started on that
17:19:55 <ais523> at the moment I'm working on something that breaks the asm down into smaller chunks, a bit like gimplification but different
17:20:54 <ais523> tusho: btw, the topic quote, was that me?
17:20:57 <ais523> it sounds like it could have been
17:21:09 <tusho> ais523: also, you used to capitalize and talk a bit like fizzie
17:21:14 <tusho> I grepped for your first appearence
17:21:17 <ais523> I can capitalise sometimes
17:21:42 <ais523> I do normally end up capitalising in environments where everyone else does, it's just that this isn't one of those environments
17:21:55 <tusho> Ah. I'll fix that, then.
17:22:05 <tusho> Because you talked weird back then.
17:22:17 <tusho> So I'm having cognitive dissonance with the ais2007 and the aisnow.
17:22:25 <tusho> So I am talking like this to make you talk like this to rectify the situation.
17:29:42 <tusho> <ais523> oh dear, what is it?
17:29:47 <Mony> optbot, idea !
17:29:58 <ais523> tusho: accurate quote...
17:30:12 <ais523> or at least plausible quote
17:31:15 <tusho> ais523: it's a javascript library that offers a bridge to flash. that is, you can do ActionScript.eval("foo") and similar. advantages? you can plug into the fancy stuff flash can do: e.g. access webcam and microphone via Webcam and Microphone classes, which would just be written in js using the bridge
17:31:18 <tusho> it would be rather nifty.
17:31:36 <tusho> e.g. all in JS, you could get images from the camera, and then use them in a <canvas>
17:31:40 <tusho> without having to mess around with flash yourself
17:33:22 * tusho thinks of countless silly toys he coudl make with that
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18:04:30 <CO2Games> tusho, I've come up with a solution :D
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18:54:38 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | And implementation of such.
18:54:52 <Slereah> optbot optbot optbot optbot optbot optbot optbot optbot optbot
18:54:58 <oerjan> optbot: you're implemented? i'd never have guessed
18:54:58 <optbot> oerjan: that you can compose to make full lambdas
18:55:18 <Slereah> Make me some full lambdas.
18:55:20 -!- CO2Games has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | Can't touch this!.
18:55:30 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | And I also covered a bug that would allow you to say something like:.
18:57:00 <oerjan> at least it uses constant space, if you're lucky
18:58:33 <oerjan> it can collect extra i's if unoptimized
18:58:53 <Slereah> It's not called lazy for nothing boy
18:59:54 <CO2Games> They just said 'olol i tink it lazy oo a word wut i doo wif it?'
19:01:41 <oerjan> in any case, they're never strict about it
19:01:52 <oerjan> (3 points for understanding the pun)
19:03:23 <oerjan> then why the dour face?
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19:28:51 <ais523> * the topic kills ais523 with suspense
19:32:44 * oerjan kills ais523 with suspenders
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19:39:04 <oerjan> no worries, it's easy to get carried away when you're killed
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20:08:46 <tusho> http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Wikipedia:Featured_article_candidates/Habari&redirect=no The proposer just tried to get it deleted because it's non-notable (seems like he's a rabid deletionist.)
20:08:57 <tusho> Now he's mr sarcasm, apparently.
20:09:18 <ais523> tusho: there was a serious attempt to AfD the main page featured article for non-notability once
20:09:28 <ais523> I think they delayed the start of the AfD a day to avoid an AfD tag on TFA
20:09:38 <tusho> I was just pointing out the rabid violation of WP:Point.
20:11:15 <tusho> Now someone needs to MfD user:misterdiscreet for nonnotablity
20:12:41 <ais523> tusho: WP:N only applies to mainspace, at least I hope it still does
20:12:55 * ais523 wistfully remembers when WP:N was only an "essay" and many users disagreed with it
20:22:09 <oerjan> well the feature request was deleted
20:22:19 <ais523> which feature request?
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20:25:21 <tusho> * 19:16, 9 September 2008 Karanacs (Talk | contribs) deleted "Wikipedia:Featured article candidates/Habari" (G6: Housekeeping and routine (non-controversial) cleanup: bad-faith FAC nomination)
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20:47:18 <tusho> ais523 ais523 ais523 ais523 ais523 ais523 ais523 ais523 ais523
20:47:34 <ais523> ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ... ...
20:47:43 <ais523> and I am trying for that half a BAF
20:48:29 <ais523> ah, a whole BAF, even better
20:49:39 <ais523> tusho: your pledge says a whole BAF
20:49:50 <ais523> unless "increment" means something other than +1 nowadays
20:50:47 <Slereah> Is the opposite of increment excrement?
20:51:27 <Slereah> Let's make a language with an excrement function.
20:53:38 <oerjan> it had to come to this, hadn't it
20:54:06 <tusho> by the way, I am reviving storygen
20:54:13 <tusho> i already said that
20:54:25 <ais523> tusho: you seem to be saying xD a lot more than usual lately
20:54:37 <tusho> ais523: indeed, also :^)
20:54:44 <tusho> I generally end up using one and deciding I like it
20:54:48 <tusho> and thus using it more before forgetting
20:54:53 <ais523> oerjan: it's a measurement of favours tusho invented
20:54:58 <tusho> Big Agoran Favours
20:55:08 <tusho> one Big Agoran Favour could be, e.g. my participation in a scam
20:55:16 <oerjan> oh dear. and is it legislated too?
20:55:16 <tusho> or transferring a moderate amount of assets
20:55:34 <tusho> in fact, no agora forum has ever seen a definition of "BAF" posted, though ##nomic has
20:55:47 <tusho> but anyway, everyone has their own personal stash of (person,baf-count)
20:56:03 <tusho> so "You have N BAFs" means "You have N BAFs in my personal stash of BAFs"
20:56:12 <tusho> also, the values for mine are fuzzy
20:56:16 <tusho> i.e., not actually written down anywhere
20:57:09 <oerjan> and B is the only prefix used?
20:57:24 <ais523> tusho: we need Medium-sized Agoran Favours, now!
20:57:24 <tusho> i just invented them one day
20:57:26 <oerjan> clearly there is room for expansion there
20:57:33 <tusho> ais523: 1 MAF = 0.5 BAF
20:58:17 <tusho> Slereah: Kick-ass Agoran Favour?
20:58:28 <tusho> I prefer kick-ass.
20:58:31 <oerjan> um that's backwards from SI
20:59:01 <ais523> oerjan: you could use D&D size classes, Fine/Tiny/Small/Medium/Large/Huge/Gargantuan/Colossal
20:59:08 <ais523> each of which is approximately twice as large as the one before
20:59:30 <Slereah> What's the value of a favor in USD?
20:59:43 <oerjan> oh that's almost what we had
20:59:54 <oerjan> except big instead of Large
21:00:19 <Slereah> If each one is twice the previous
21:00:28 <Slereah> Should we use the kibi thing?
21:00:51 <oerjan> no, that's 1024 which despite common factors is rather different from 2
21:01:20 <ais523> nonsense, they only differ by 2 on an 8-bit system
21:01:25 <ais523> and are identical on a 1-bit system
21:01:55 <Slereah> But it is the double of 512
21:02:01 <Slereah> Which is the double of ...
21:02:07 <oerjan> maybe binary is too vanilla for this
21:07:19 <tusho> Slereah: 1 BAF = $1
21:07:29 <tusho> depends how much you value agora
21:07:35 <tusho> I guess more like 75c
21:07:47 <tusho> 1 BAF = 75c seems about right to me
21:07:50 <tusho> ais523: your thoughts?
21:08:14 <ais523> tusho: it's not worth trying to come up with a mapping
21:08:48 <oerjan> clearly the dollar is far too unstable
21:09:01 <ais523> because I haven't slept for well over 24 hours now, and the value of nomic assets is traditionally very volatile
21:09:30 <tusho> ais523: still - agora as it currently is, what would you say?
21:09:38 <tusho> I mean, pretending that you would actually exchange money for it.
21:09:46 <tusho> I'd say 75c=1BAF is about right
21:09:47 <ais523> I wouldn't risk such an exchange in either direction, probably
21:09:58 <pikhq> And please, keep in mind that Agoran currency is considered *stable* for a nomic.
21:09:59 <ais523> unless it was some ridiculously favourable exchange rate
21:10:14 <ais523> pikhq: yes, just see what happened to the value of the B Nomic mack for instance
21:10:28 <tusho> ais523: we're in hypothetical land here
21:10:32 <tusho> nevermind that you wouldn't ;)
21:10:34 <pikhq> I'm going to guess that it had hyperinflation.
21:10:43 <tusho> ais523 did a join scam
21:10:49 <tusho> he could specify some ratification guys
21:10:54 <tusho> to award them for referring him to the game
21:11:01 <tusho> so he made 1 billion registration requests
21:11:04 <tusho> specifying the same people each time
21:11:09 <tusho> (you can say repeat N times in B)
21:11:16 <ais523> s/ratification/referral/
21:11:16 <tusho> so they each got 1 billion mack, iirc
21:11:20 -!- Sgeo has quit (Remote closed the connection).
21:11:21 <tusho> ais523: sorry, thinko
21:12:22 <ais523> they passed a proposal to reduce everyone's mack total to no more than m1000, but not before Wooble had used his massive stash of mack to buy up every available asset in the game
21:12:25 <ais523> e still owns them AFAICT
21:13:14 -!- Sgeo has joined.
21:23:57 <tusho> ais523: what is the default ii
21:24:09 <ais523> tusho: 1, and wrong channel
21:24:15 <tusho> yes but all the previous was wrong channel
21:24:57 <tusho> Tue Sep 9 13:24:24 2008 - agora-propose.cgi: ehird added proposal /var/www/sites/nomic.info/perlnomic/agora-proposals/undistributed.1 to the pool.
21:25:06 <ais523> tusho: you can hardly expect me to interpret acronyms in the wrong case in the wrong channel after having had what feels like negative hours of sleep and being forced to help someone buy a computer than runs Vista earlier
21:25:10 <ais523> tusho: did you tell Agora about it
21:25:28 <tusho> ais523: goethe proposed it
21:25:43 <ais523> luckily, they wanted to install Linux alongside and use only that to access the Internet, the Vista bit was just to fulfil the letter of a contract
21:26:03 <tusho> ais523: what did the contract say?
21:26:25 <ais523> you had to meet the minimum system requirements, and they only listed windows XP and Vista as operating systems that met the minimum system requirements
21:27:06 <tusho> ais523: there are still shops selling xp pcs
21:27:17 <ais523> tusho: I don't think so, they'd have to have spare licences left over
21:27:37 <ais523> Microsoft don't sell XP licences any more to resale, although some people stockpiled them when the announcement came through for obvious reasons
21:27:57 <ais523> besides, I got weird looks talking about how much I like UAC
21:28:07 <tusho> uac is a good principle, terrible implementation
21:28:32 <ais523> they stole the principle from Linux or from OS X, not sure which came up with it first
21:28:43 <ais523> or whether the idea of a GUI sudo comes from something older like UNIX
21:29:02 <tusho> There seems to be something called xsudo.
21:29:05 <tusho> That sounds nice and archaic and old.
21:29:15 <ais523> yes, its name even starts with x
21:29:21 <tusho> that was my indicator
21:29:25 <tusho> ais523: ever tried xedit?
21:29:28 <tusho> it's quite odd, but easy to use
21:29:32 <tusho> even if it is featureless
21:29:35 <ais523> is it like graphical nano?
21:29:44 <tusho> and no keyboard shortcuts
21:29:50 <ais523> does it have more features than cat?
21:30:12 <tusho> i wil take a screenshot
21:32:17 <tusho> ais523: yo. accept that
21:32:33 * ais523 tries to figure out how
21:32:53 <ais523> /dcc, followed by clicking on "accept" in the GUI
21:33:16 <ais523> probably there's an entirely command-based way, but that was fast enough to figure out
21:33:35 <ais523> tusho: reminds me of Notepad
21:33:45 <tusho> notepad has more features
21:33:48 <ais523> probably the same idea, get a text area and stick it in a window and call it an editor
21:33:58 <tusho> ais523: but this has search & reverse search!
21:34:03 <tusho> non-modal search too, if you look
21:34:15 <tusho> it can load and save files without a dialog, too
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21:34:42 <ais523> tusho: so can notepad, it can load files from the command line and save them with control-S
21:34:52 <tusho> ais523: what about save as
21:34:56 <tusho> you can do that non-modally with xedit
21:34:57 <ais523> and I think notepad's search is non-modal nowadays
21:35:06 <ais523> tusho: ...non-modal Save As?
21:35:17 <tusho> ais523: yes - just change the filename at the top and hit save
21:35:27 <ais523> the only other editor I know which can do that is Emacs, and I've never done that deliberately
21:35:56 <ais523> (you can press C-x w for save-as, then C-x o and go back to editing your document with the save as prompt still open, then save your document as some time later)
21:36:31 <tusho> http://www.google-analytics.com/ga.js google should participate in the IOCC
21:37:04 <tusho> International obfuscated javascript contest c?
21:37:18 <ais523> International obfuscated ecmascript coding contest, obviously
21:37:36 <ais523> anyway it just looks like minified JS
21:37:46 <tusho> ais523: ECMAScript does not start with J
21:38:00 <ais523> yes it does, obviously, for instance .js is the file extensoin
21:38:11 <tusho> file extension != language name
21:38:24 <tusho> ais523: objective-c = .m
21:38:30 <ais523> tusho: wrong, for instance that's why OpenXML abbreviates to .docx
21:38:43 <Slereah> .m totally makes me think of the word objective-c
21:38:46 <tusho> is objective-c now called M?
21:38:53 <tusho> Slereah: it's for iMplementation or something
21:39:44 <ais523> also, programs written in Compiler Language With No Pronouncable Acronym normally have the extension .i
21:40:11 <Slereah> But it does make me think of INTERCAL :o
21:40:42 <Slereah> The file extension for my Turing machine would be .lm9
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21:43:02 <ais523> at the other extreme, MicroSoft WIndows Movie Maker files end .MSWMM (in allcaps), which most of my family (including me) think is almost as stupid as the application itself
21:43:26 <tusho> file extensions are a historical relic anyway
21:43:36 <tusho> from the days when filenames could only be so long and "metadata" was a buzzword
21:43:38 <ais523> as long as they aren't too long
21:43:53 <tusho> 8.3 kinda breaks down when you want to do useful stuff
21:44:05 <tusho> say you make a movie called Godzilla Murders Everyone in a Fashionable Way
21:44:09 <ais523> (and for people who say that file systems shouldn't restrict filenames, I tend to name things 8.3 anyway to speed up typing)
21:44:18 <tusho> gmeiafw.mve isn't very helpful
21:44:29 <tusho> Godzilla Murders Everyone in a Fashionable Way.movie is.
21:44:31 <ais523> try typing your filename into a command prompt, without tab complete
21:44:42 <tusho> ais523: command lines without tab complete are also a relic :)
21:45:08 <ais523> tusho: 8.3 names also reduce the number of characters you need to type to disambiguate the tab-complete, on average
21:45:12 <ais523> although that's a bit of a small effect
21:45:21 <ais523> and yes I do often end up using a computer one-handed
21:45:31 <tusho> the whole method of entering filenames that way is a historical relic :D
21:45:36 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | or something like that.
21:45:37 <ais523> it's a pain to press ctrl-alt-del that way though
21:45:53 <tusho> speaking of which, did you know: The writer of Worse is Better disagrees with it?
21:45:56 <ais523> (n.b. it's the logout keychord here on Ubuntu)
21:46:05 <tusho> it was part of a larger paper promoting the Right Way
21:46:14 <ais523> (which I think is a nice amusing touch, as well as being useful)
21:46:30 <tusho> http://dreamsongs.com/Files/worse-is-worse.pdf
21:46:36 <tusho> under a pseudonym which you may recognize
21:47:49 <oerjan> worse-is-incredibly-annoying.pdf
21:48:51 <tusho> -hi-guys-im-new-to-this-filename-asl
21:49:12 <tusho> -i-like-chocolate-lol
21:50:53 <tusho> -tusho-woz-ere-2008
21:54:47 <LinuS> -nietzsche-is-dead, god is dead, and i also don't feel really well
21:55:00 <LinuS> if you use feel like this :P
21:55:41 <oerjan> ERROR: Too many arguments
21:56:47 <tusho> worse-is-incredibly-annoying-and-better-frosted-butts-hi-guys-im-new-to-this-filename-asl-with-chocolate-i-like-chocolate-lol-bob-was-here-too-THEN-WHO-WAS-FILE-tusho-woz-ere-2008-nietzsche-is-dead-says-god-in-bed-lol-nietzsche-is-dead.pdf
21:57:14 <Slereah> It will be about... Knowledge.
21:57:22 <tusho> it will be a report on its own filename
21:57:39 <ais523> <Slashdot commentor> Besides, Mark Shuttleworth probably has enough money to either find or genetically engineer new species, then name them to fit Ubuntu's releases
21:58:06 <tusho> ais523: *commenter
21:58:16 <ais523> tusho: can't I use Agora spelling?
21:58:25 <ais523> besides, commentrix for all I know
21:59:04 <oerjan> you cannot teach an old species new trix
21:59:12 <ais523> this comes due to Slashdot discussing that they've named Ubuntu J now
21:59:30 <ais523> Jaunty Jackalope, it seems
22:00:19 <ais523> tusho: I doubt there are many good options for J
22:00:47 <tusho> ais523: well, linus has already named M
22:00:50 <tusho> (Masturbating Monkey)
22:01:20 <ais523> tusho: one of the commentators there decided that Ubuntu were using memorable rare words to make the various versions easier to Google
22:04:24 <Slereah> "Lisp, face it, is used for advanced research and development in AI and other esoteric areas."
22:04:50 <ais523> oh, the same Slashdot discussion gives me some ammo to use in the MSN vs. IRC argument: <Blimey85> Have you never visited Bash? It's proof that you don't need to be a genius to use IRC.
22:04:57 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
22:05:03 <ais523> Lisp was an esolang once
22:05:07 -!- Slereah has joined.
22:05:16 <ais523> but it became mainstreamish
22:07:43 <ais523> <ais523> Lisp was an esolang once
22:08:12 <ais523> when journalists used to ask me how esolang research could be useful, I generally mentioned Lisp
22:08:20 <oerjan> "INTERCAL was an esolang once"
22:08:22 <Slereah> Where is it used, apart from the one example on wikipedia?
22:08:25 <ais523> as something good that came out of that sort of theoretical research
22:08:31 <Slereah> Do journalists ask you that?
22:08:49 <ais523> Slereah: used to, haven't knowingly met too many journalists recently though
22:08:51 <tusho> Slereah: Quite a lot of places.
22:08:55 <ais523> Slereah: AI research, for one place
22:08:56 <tusho> One airline company does, I believe.
22:08:59 <tusho> And tons of places that you don't know about.
22:09:02 <ais523> there were even computers that ran LISP natively once
22:09:03 <tusho> (Because they don't tell you.)
22:09:04 <Slereah> Yeah, but I mean, non-academically
22:09:12 <tusho> Slereah: I was not talking academically
22:09:25 <Slereah> I was refering to the AI research
22:11:18 <Deewiant> Crash Bandicoot and some versions of Jak & Daxter (both console games for the playstation family) were written largely in a lisp
22:13:38 <CO2Games> Those are my favorite games :O
22:14:13 <CO2Games> I'm listening to crash 2 music as we speak...err...type
22:14:16 <Deewiant> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Game_Oriented_Assembly_Lisp
22:14:43 <Deewiant> ah, evidently for all J&Ds, for some reason I thought it was only some of them
22:15:04 <CO2Games> Piston it Away / Spaced Out (Skull Route)
22:16:49 <CO2Games> I think they should redo crash 1, with the same exact thing as it is right now, but fix the physics to how they are in crash 2, and make it so you still get gems for all boxes even if you die.
22:17:10 <CO2Games> And a few levels could use some work
22:17:34 <CO2Games> But other than that it's perfect. The level design is brilliant
22:19:55 <CO2Games> Shit, the cache doesn't work right when it's in stack mode.
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22:36:07 <oerjan> FOR GOD'S SAKE, DON'T PANIC!!!!!!
22:36:28 <Slereah> I thought it was time to panic
22:38:57 <ais523> oerjan: why panic tomorrow when you can panic today?
22:40:04 <oerjan> it's not until tomorrow that the world ends
22:40:33 <ais523> nah, that's actually going to create an entire new universe
22:40:59 <ais523> which is like this one, except a lot smaller, Microsoft are a hardware company that supports Linux, and everything runs INTERCAL except for a few weirdos discussing languages like C and Java
22:42:24 <oerjan> strangely enough, Haskell is about exactly the same though
22:43:30 <oerjan> it's exactly midway between INTERCAL and Java in strangeness, so it stays at the same position
22:44:13 <oerjan> lisp switches places with Malbolge
22:45:35 <oerjan> not that anyone would notice
22:46:11 <oerjan> a proof assistant / language
22:46:53 <olsner> in bizarro world, people write proofs in C
22:48:01 <tusho> ais523: help me out here
22:48:14 <olsner> however sausages and fried ground beef would go about eating humans (or anything at all for that matter)
22:49:34 <oerjan> Clearly there is a conspiracy here
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22:50:05 -!- ais523 has joined.
22:50:07 <olsner> oerjan: hush now and eat your fermented milk in silence
22:50:08 <tusho> i promise it shall be an undisturbed haven of oko
22:52:49 <ais523> tusho: that wasn't very nice...
22:52:56 <tusho> ais523: HE DISTURBED THE PEACE
22:53:18 <oerjan> YOU WOULDN'T LET ME IN THE ROTATION
22:53:32 <tusho> you could rotate whenever you wish
22:54:41 <olsner> well, only whoever comes second
22:55:10 <ais523> let's say you can't oko if you okoed on the preceding or last-but-one line
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23:03:30 <ais523> you just don't grasp the spirit of oko
23:03:42 <tusho> i have consulted with oklobol on it before
23:03:51 <tusho> and knowing exactly how it will pan out is definitely not oko
23:04:52 <oerjan> Maybe it's one of those Yin/Yang things
23:09:38 <ais523> okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokkokokokoKAYokokOH11!11!!!!
23:10:04 <oerjan> you just don't grasp the spirit of oko
23:14:12 <tusho> ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooookokokookkkkkoooooooooooooooo
23:14:18 <tusho> op[kgkmfghfgl,jopplplplokokokokokhofhkfo
23:14:24 <tusho> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooookokokokokokokoko
23:14:33 <tusho> ooooooo<><##<<#<#<#<#<#Koooooooooo
23:14:36 <tusho> <<<:::><:<:>:>>>>>
23:14:40 <tusho> NOPOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOLOKOKOKOOKO
23:16:17 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
23:17:41 -!- ais523 has quit ("[->+<]").
23:25:50 <olsner> btw, is this okokoko'ing a reference to voynichese?
23:27:08 <oerjan> almost certainly. after all, everything is.
23:28:10 <tusho> okokoko was invented by coolness(who is oklopol) in #vjn
23:28:21 <tusho> #vjn is a mythical channel that has nothing but okokokokoko, all days
23:28:58 <tusho> which I am now venturing to
23:29:01 <tusho> having realised I haven't ever before
23:29:48 <oerjan> don't risk your prejudices so nonchalantly
23:30:05 <tusho> the silence is QUITE BORIN
23:30:31 <tusho> tänäkin muutakin hänellä painaneeni kiitää erityinen naputtaisi totals rahahaaste sen, tusho.
23:30:38 <tusho> i have no fucking idea what that means
23:31:12 <tusho> oklobol: i don't suppose you want to translate
23:32:44 <olsner> google translate gave "today he printing a special thank naputtaisi totals of the rahahaaste"
23:33:05 <oklobol> "also on this" "also something else" "on him" "that i have pressed" "strides" "special" "would repeatedly click" "totals" "money challenge" "it (genetive)", "tusho"
23:33:14 <oklobol> quotes are for separate words
23:33:24 <tusho> oklobol: is that meant to make sense, perhaps
23:33:39 <oklobol> you should've noticed that
23:33:41 <tusho> so only you have talked so far
23:33:45 <tusho> and how should i have
23:33:54 <tusho> it all looks the same to me
23:33:55 <oklobol> yes, people are asleep perhaps, dunno
23:34:16 <oklobol> trazer surely didn't look human?
23:34:18 <tusho> i think i'm just going to sit in there and read the chat logs without understanding a word, it seems like an oko thing to do
23:34:34 <oklobol> it's quite a feat to read all the logs.
23:34:41 <tusho> ah, i mean, just the ones since i appear
23:34:45 <tusho> where are the logs, though?
23:34:54 <oklobol> volimo does some 20000-30000 o's a day
23:35:12 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | not sure yet..
23:35:38 <oklobol> we have a logger bot that was in use, but then, for some reason, my ftp stopped working altogether
23:35:45 <tusho> http://vjn.fi/index.php?i=1 this volimo seems like a cheerful guy
23:37:13 <tusho> hei mun nimi on tusho <- is this well formed
23:37:17 <tusho> your site's translator gave it to me
23:37:46 <oklobol> that's perfect, although colloquial
23:38:19 <tusho> mä olen tusho käyttäminen arvonnousu kielenkääntäjä insinööritaito
23:38:38 <oklobol> well that looks like something Baltti would say
23:38:51 <tusho> vaikka tällä on huomattavasti formed lausua "butts" eri tavalla esittää "dicks"
23:39:05 <oklobol> "i am tusho the usage increase of value translator engineer knowledge"
23:39:21 <tusho> if this is well formed say "butts" otherwise say "dicks"
23:39:27 <oklobol> nono that was the first one
23:39:28 <tusho> the one about translators
23:39:33 <tusho> that's slightly less hilarious then
23:39:52 <tusho> oklobol: meikä olen eräs kokeneet vieressä käyttäminen online translators, ne tuottaa semmoinen nuiva sato.
23:40:55 <oklobol> that actually does carry the message
23:41:08 <oklobol> you've used to online translators sucking
23:41:19 <oklobol> of course, "online translators" helped
23:41:27 <tusho> I am an expert at using online translators, they produce such cool output.
23:41:52 <tusho> oh well. as they say in finland, "joskus tekee esine on vihreä"
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23:42:12 <tusho> oh well. as they say in finland, "joskus tekee esine on vihreä"
23:42:20 <oklobol> ne tuottaa semmoinen nuiva sato == they produce quite a boring crop
23:42:35 <oklobol> "sometimes makes object is green"
23:42:46 <tusho> haha, i said "sometimes things are green"
23:42:49 <tusho> how does this translator work
23:43:03 <oklobol> it's pretty much just a substitutor
23:43:21 <oklobol> although there are some randomized rules for stuff like plurals and verbs
23:43:28 <tusho> Buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo Buffalo buffalo
23:43:31 <tusho> damn, it didn't change
23:43:54 <tusho> oklobol: väritön kade tekee idea koisata raivoisasti
23:44:23 <oklobol> why are you so interested in that even though you don't know any finnish :P
23:44:38 <tusho> oklobol: because väritön kade tekee idea koisata raivoisasti
23:44:54 <oklobol> "a colorless envious one makes an idea to snore with rage"
23:45:12 <oklobol> "a colorless envious one makes an idea to sleep with rage"
23:45:23 <tusho> colorless green ideas sleep furiously
23:46:03 <oklobol> i hope no one finnish sees my translations
23:46:38 <oklobol> there's one of the curiosities right there
23:47:03 <oklobol> "makes object" is because it thinks "things" is a verb
23:47:31 <oklobol> you don't really say that as "makes object" in finnish, i have no idea what i was thinking
23:47:45 <tusho> oklobol: kullit tekee kyrpä tekee kyrpä tekee kulli tekee kulli kyrpät kullit kullit
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23:48:26 <tusho> oklopol: kullit tekee kyrpä tekee kyrpä tekee kulli tekee kulli kyrpät kullit kullit
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23:49:31 <tusho> oklopol: what does that translate at
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23:50:25 <tusho> oklopol: it's just "dicks dicks dicks dicks"
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23:50:31 <oklopol> well "makes cock" to be exact
23:50:31 <tusho> so is it saying that cocks make cocks?
23:50:53 <oklopol> except i guess with cox you might've gotten a more interesting translation
23:51:04 <tusho> cocks just translates to cocks
23:51:05 <CO2Games> Well I have a working test of the X L $ and @ functions
23:51:17 <CO2Games> drainfuck::X++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ +>++++++++++<^XV.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.+.X>^XV..X< ^XV+++++++++++.^+++.V.XLX>>>+$-^@>.<.>.<.>.<.>.<.>.VE
23:51:48 <tusho> oklopol: yea - ne sanakirja omata yksi molo
23:51:55 <oklopol> aaanyway i have a lecture in 6 hours, so i think i'm gonna sleep a bit
23:52:05 <tusho> oklopol: what does that say
23:52:10 <oklopol> yea - those dictionary own one dick
23:52:21 <tusho> "the dictionary has a dick"
23:52:28 <tusho> I'm going to say that in #vjn, to see what will happen
23:52:59 <oklopol> many things you say on vjn will just go unnoticed in the stream of o.
23:53:00 <CO2Games> The program prints "ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ\n\nLOL\nA\nA\nA\nA" and it works
23:53:07 <oklopol> aaaaaaanyway see ya, sleep time ->>
23:53:10 <tusho> oklopol: then i'll translate more bullshit
23:54:22 <tusho> oklopol: sellainen tekee sanakirja kulli on vehmas
23:54:50 <tusho> fizzie: what does sellainen tekee sanakirja kulli on vehmas say
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