โ†2008-09-11 2008-09-12 2008-09-13โ†’ โ†‘2008 โ†‘all
00:04:38 <tusho> AND THEN! They saw Jorge wanting to be hardcore but his mom would't let him. Fact: hardcores bite people and Jorge had rabies. I'm also a rapper. In the flesh. (Flesh is tasty.) Soon, however, he became bored of this rampant cannibalism. He threw down his piece of man-thigh, and went to get a real job. Or so he hoped. But no, rather than what was expected... there was a centipede! Hundreds of feet long, it crawled on its belly before exploding violently. Thi
00:06:05 <Slereah> wat
00:06:10 <tusho> Slereah: storygen
00:06:36 <tusho> Slereah: http://91.105.85.60:4567/
00:09:33 <oerjan> tusho: it got cut off after "violently. Thi"
00:09:49 <tusho> is caused an international incident between the cat and your anus. Then, Elliott realized that moar people In the Midnight Hour of the something which then one mored.
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01:00:47 <tusho> transformed into an acoustic guitar and got Ubuntu Linux But didn't understand it when he talked about the rabbit about his mom when not all that suddenly, he farted and the expelled gas exploded immediately afterwards, killing you. That is to say, not. But then, Then he pooped out a kitten. Ohh, those fuckign delicious kittens Mr. Clockhead decided to kill Mr. Blockhead. After quenching his bloodthirst, something truly special happened. Jibbedybob so the Lo
01:00:57 <tusho> ead. After quenching his bloodthirst, something truly special happened. Jibbedybob so the Loch Ness Monster decided to rape everyone. But Jibbedybob reveal himself to the man - the hot, sweaty man - SUDDENLY - all the sex was used up. So Jibbedybob bought some more at a convenience store. THE END
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01:06:40 <oerjan> now there's that Jibbedybob again
01:06:56 <oerjan> what is he up to?
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01:24:50 <RodgerTheGreat> "Lisp programmer is an oxymoron. Once you learn lisp you never write any code every again, you move into academia and spend the rest of your life trying to hoodwink other people into thinking lisp isn't a pile of shit."
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02:06:06 <Sgeo> Any extreneous Sgeos are evil
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02:06:52 <oerjan> ah but which is the extreneous [sic] one?
02:07:34 * Sgeo glares at his evil underscore-bearing counterpart
02:09:00 <oerjan> http://www.computerworld.com.au/index.php/id;528456667
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03:45:37 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | even logspace..
04:16:09 <bsmntbombdood> it would be cool if the logs could be stored in log space
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05:03:32 <lament> bsmntbombdood: good one
05:39:37 <oklobol> oklobol lols in pain
06:02:20 <bsmntbombdood> lament: invent the compression algorithm
06:04:18 <lament> sure
06:04:42 <lament> keep only the last log(n) of n lines of logs. Throw out the rest; nobody reads logs that old, anyway.
06:10:24 <pikhq> I do upon rare occasion.
06:35:03 <bsmntbombdood> pretty clever
06:36:46 <bsmntbombdood> except not
06:38:13 <bsmntbombdood> each log file is 60k, 4 years of logs, means 89702400 characters
06:38:37 <bsmntbombdood> which means...we have a 18 character log
06:38:42 <bsmntbombdood> not very useful
06:47:44 <oklobol> i disagree. "not very useful" is all you need to know about esoteric languages
06:48:04 <oklobol> except i kinda messed my own joke up by saying that.
07:02:27 <lament> bsmntbombdood: we need to pick an appropriate base, of course.
07:03:26 <bsmntbombdood> like 1.00001 or something
07:03:46 <pikhq> I vote base 1.
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09:19:27 <AnMaster> last xkcd.... got no hover text...
09:19:32 * AnMaster watches world fall apart
09:45:37 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | like a modulo?.
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10:16:17 <fizzie> optbot: What's like a modulo?
10:16:18 <optbot> fizzie: I've decided type-level church numerals are far more fun.
10:16:47 <fizzie> optbot: That sounds sufficiently esoteric, yes.
10:16:48 <optbot> fizzie: so that they can be evaluated, in sequence
11:04:04 <AnMaster> is O(n^2) or O(n log n) worst?
11:05:48 <fizzie> n^2 is obviously worse than n log n.
11:05:53 <fizzie> Since n is worse than log n.
11:05:59 <AnMaster> right
11:06:11 <fizzie> Asymptotically speaking, anyway.
11:08:41 <AnMaster> hm now what is the correct notation for "average" and "worst" cases
11:08:51 <AnMaster> it is something else than O really isn't it iirc?
11:10:36 <AnMaster> hm no, I guess I remembered wrong
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11:18:16 <AnMaster> hm... if you needed a good sorting algorithm, good worst case and good average case, what one would you select?
11:36:56 <Deewiant> qsort(3)
11:37:14 <Deewiant> or whatever your standard library offers
11:37:39 <AnMaster> well true, but qsort() is quicksort isn't it?
11:37:49 <Deewiant> why would it be
11:38:05 <Deewiant> it has a crap name, there's no reason why it has to be :-P
11:38:05 <AnMaster> misleading name then I guess
11:38:14 <Deewiant> most likely it's introsort
11:38:48 <AnMaster> probably
11:38:50 <Deewiant> at least that's std::sort in the SGI C++ standard library, and the standard sorter in tango (after I filed a bug about it :-P)
11:39:02 <AnMaster> however mergesort could take advantage of multi-core CPUs
11:39:13 <AnMaster> Deewiant, what was the standard sorter before?
11:39:16 <AnMaster> in tango
11:39:19 <Deewiant> quicksort
11:39:39 <Deewiant> median-of-3 to be exact
11:40:30 <AnMaster> anyway what about mergesort? It would be easy to take advantage of multiple cpus, if you have two, then at the first split in half let each cpu do half of the work
11:41:13 <Deewiant> quicksort can be parallelized as easily as mergesort
11:41:38 <Deewiant> well, maybe not quite as easily, but easily anyway
11:46:04 <Deewiant> but in any case, I'd leave that to the stdlib
11:46:23 <Deewiant> and unless you're sorting something really big it doesn't matter anyway :-P
11:50:00 <AnMaster> Deewiant, or if you want a stable sort
11:50:02 <AnMaster> not that I do
11:51:19 <Deewiant> in that case as well I'd leave it to the stdlib :-P
11:51:26 <AnMaster> Deewiant, if there is one
11:51:36 <AnMaster> which may not always be the case
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11:51:55 <Deewiant> unfortunately some stdlibs are crap, yes
11:52:02 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well that too
11:52:24 <AnMaster> but I was thinking about stand-alone C
11:52:27 <AnMaster> for kernels and such
11:52:50 <AnMaster> freestanding I believe the official name is
11:53:49 <AnMaster> (how do you know I'm not planning a cfunge-OS ;)
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12:41:20 <oerjan> AnMaster: oh no
12:41:30 <AnMaster> oerjan, ?
12:41:36 <oerjan> it must be a side effect of the earth being destroyed
12:41:42 <AnMaster> what is?
12:41:53 <tusho> AnMaster: IT!
12:41:53 <oerjan> the lack of hovertext
12:42:03 <AnMaster> hah
12:42:18 <AnMaster> yeah either case it is pretty odd
12:42:24 <AnMaster> in either*
12:42:32 <tusho> uh
12:42:33 <tusho> it has it now
12:42:44 <tusho> another one didnd't have it at one point but then it got added in after people noticed
12:42:50 <AnMaster> tusho, didn't have it this morning
12:43:00 <tusho> AnMaster: that happens occasionally
12:43:18 <oerjan> tusho is lying
12:43:24 <tusho> oerjan: what?
12:43:26 <oerjan> or i have a browser error
12:43:31 <tusho> i am not lying
12:43:35 <tusho> here, let's view source:
12:43:48 <tusho> <img src="http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/further_boomerang_difficulties.png" title="An eternity later, the universe having turned out to have positive curvature and lots of mass, the boomerang hits him in the back of the head." alt="Further Boomerang Difficulties" /><br/>
12:43:49 <oklobol> i am lying.
12:43:52 <oerjan> i just checked xkcd, there is no hovertext
12:43:56 <tusho> oerjan:
12:43:57 <tusho> <img src="http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/further_boomerang_difficulties.png" title="An eternity later, the universe having turned out to have positive curvature and lots of mass, the boomerang hits him in the back of the head." alt="Further Boomerang Difficulties" /><br/>
12:45:35 <oerjan> <img src="http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/further_boomerang_difficulties.png" title="" alt="Further Boomerang Difficulties" />
12:45:45 <oerjan> is what i see
12:45:49 <tusho> oerjan: cache
12:46:10 <oerjan> except i didn't visit xkcd earlier
12:46:46 <tusho> here:
12:47:31 <oerjan> bah!
12:47:36 <oerjan> a reload fixed it
12:47:44 <tusho> sigh
12:48:18 <oerjan> that was weird, especially if AnMaster sees it too
12:48:37 <tusho> maybe _JSUT_ added
12:48:39 <tusho> *just
12:49:07 <oerjan> within 15 minutes? wow
12:49:14 <AnMaster> oerjan, there is hovertext there now
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12:49:27 <AnMaster> wasn't when I mentioned the issue though
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12:55:25 <tusho> itunes 8 looks neat-o
13:04:22 <oerjan> bah how disappointing
13:04:56 <oerjan> google doesn't do unit conversion with kalpas
13:07:40 <Deewiant> kalpas?
13:08:31 <oerjan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kalpa_(time_unit)
13:09:01 <oerjan> mind you i looked it up afterward. i didn't know there were conflicting definitions...
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14:20:56 <tusho> heh, anyone who ever comments on a piece of FUD targeting apple to *factually correct them*, even if they don't use apple products, is immediately called an apple fanboy
14:21:01 <tusho> (on reddit)
14:21:03 <tusho> stupid reddit
14:21:08 <tusho> maybe i'll start blocking the comments
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15:45:37 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | exactly! omg we're like soulmates rofl!!! asl?.
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15:48:35 <fizzie> optbot: I like your topic.
15:48:36 <optbot> fizzie: just... minute enough to... draw a circlish thing?
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15:50:57 <ais523> hi tusho, AnMaster
15:51:03 <tusho> hi ais523!
15:51:16 <ais523> yay, I even get an exclamation mark this time
15:51:31 <AnMaster> ais523, hi
15:51:34 * ais523 has spent most of today trying to port C-INTERCAL to autotools
15:51:46 <ais523> I have it building reliably now, but there are some things I want to change
15:51:46 <AnMaster> automake you mean?
15:51:50 <ais523> AnMaster: that's it
15:51:55 <AnMaster> well what things?
15:51:58 <ais523> maybe even libtool while I'm at it
15:52:02 <AnMaster> I gave up on ick + automake
15:52:14 <AnMaster> mostly due to split oil output
15:52:21 <ais523> AnMaster: I don't like the way automake scatters all the temporary files in the root directory of the distribution
15:52:22 <tusho> ais523: why on earth would you want to use autotools
15:52:23 <tusho> :|
15:52:33 <AnMaster> ais523, ah well I do out of tree builds always
15:52:33 <ais523> and I handled the split oil output by writing it all as one rule by hand
15:52:44 <AnMaster> ais523, and you can move some stuff into subdirs
15:52:48 <AnMaster> let me find the command
15:53:01 <ais523> AnMaster: that's not the problem, the problem is that some of the temporaries are distributed with the tarball
15:53:06 <AnMaster> AC_CONFIG_AUX_DIR([utils])
15:53:16 <AnMaster> for config.guess config.sub and so on
15:53:20 <ais523> AnMaster: ah, I knew about that one, hadn't used it yet but was planning to
15:53:21 <AnMaster> into a directory called utils
15:53:34 <ais523> also C-INTERCAL doesn't need config.sub at the moment, although I've been modifying it for gcc-bf
15:53:49 <AnMaster> what exactly does config.sub do btw
15:53:52 <AnMaster> I never checked
15:54:10 <ais523> AnMaster: translates a short name like "i386" into a long name like "i386-pc-linux-gnu"
15:54:24 <ais523> also checks that the name is one that's recognised by some GNU software
15:54:28 <ais523> and of course bf isn't
15:54:32 <AnMaster> ais523, ah hm.... that file will be replaced by regeneration commands
15:54:35 <ais523> so I need to add it
15:54:38 <Deewiant> ais523: http://www.rcfunge98.com/rcsfingers.html#ICAL
15:54:44 <AnMaster> ah yes Deewiant
15:54:47 <ais523> Deewiant: that name sounds promising...
15:55:06 <Deewiant> just some intercal-esque stuff
15:55:08 <AnMaster> ais523, well is it correct, as in do like in intercal?
15:55:18 <ais523> AnMaster: yes, but they took only the saner of the commands there
15:55:19 <AnMaster> blergh at grammar there
15:55:24 <AnMaster> he
15:55:25 <AnMaster> not they
15:55:33 <AnMaster> Mike Riley
15:55:42 <tusho> AnMaster: singular they is correct.
15:55:47 <ais523> apart from "0R is not an error and will just continue without resuming", that is an error in ordinary INTERCAL
15:56:02 <ais523> and singular they is of disputed gramaticalness but I use it anyway
15:56:05 <AnMaster> ais523, something like: ACLOCAL_AMFLAGS = -I macros --install
15:56:08 <AnMaster> in the top Makefile.am
15:56:13 <AnMaster> to put macros into a subdir
15:56:26 <AnMaster> rather than at the end of aclocal.m4
15:56:29 <ais523> AnMaster: it's not that stuff I'm worried about, it's half-built parsers like parser.c and parser.h
15:56:41 <ais523> I have it confined to ick-0-29/temp in the old build system
15:56:46 <ais523> however, I have an insane solution
15:56:50 <tusho> ais523: yesterday me and Deewiant were poking fun at mikeriley's fingerprints which are clones of existing ones sans all the useful parts, and incredible ambiguiuty ("format string is printf style") so I made my first fingerprint: http://tusho.net/mkry/
15:57:01 <AnMaster> ais523, you mean that there are temporary files?
15:57:11 <AnMaster> what about them? I assume darcs got some ignore function?
15:57:11 <ais523> AnMaster: it's more like /var/cache
15:57:18 <AnMaster> um what?
15:57:21 <ais523> and the issue is that they're supposed to be distributed
15:57:33 <ais523> in case the person at the other end doesn't have lex, or doesn't have yacc or equivalents
15:57:48 <Deewiant> tusho: the sillier thing about the clones is that the originals are his as well :-P
15:57:51 <ais523> both the old and the new build system handles that fine, I just don't like where the new build system puts them
15:57:53 <tusho> Deewiant: :D
15:58:08 <ais523> tusho: that fingerprint reminds me of ESME
15:58:10 <tusho> Deewiant: soon I shall write MIKR!
15:58:26 <tusho> ais523: the actual spec is that C pushes 3 to 15 (random) ','s
15:58:29 <tusho> D the same but with '.'
15:58:38 <tusho> and E the same but with randomly alternating 'e' and 'h'
15:58:38 <ais523> tusho: but why?
15:58:45 <AnMaster> ais523, hm...
15:58:45 <tusho> ais523: eheheheheheheehhe,,,,,not sure.......
15:58:50 <ais523> most fingerprints actually have some sort of purpose...
15:58:52 <tusho> the clue is in the name :-)
15:58:55 <AnMaster> ais523, it would put them in build tree I assume?
15:59:06 <AnMaster> ais523, which seems sane to me
15:59:06 <ais523> AnMaster: yes, the problem is it puts them in the root of the build tree
15:59:11 <ais523> in the build tree is sane
15:59:15 <AnMaster> um
15:59:18 <ais523> in root isn't, because they get distributed with the package
15:59:19 <AnMaster> that's strange
15:59:35 <AnMaster> ais523, I guess you don't use recursive make (and yes I prefer non-recursive too)
15:59:36 <ais523> so my insane solution is to put Makefile.am in a subdirectory of its own
15:59:53 <ais523> AnMaster: I prefer non-recursive, and recursive make doesn't even really make sense with C-INTERCAL
16:00:05 <ais523> because most of the targets share most of the object files
16:00:14 <AnMaster> ais523, I assume you do out of tree build the same way as "normal" automake-using projects do?
16:00:16 <AnMaster> that is:
16:00:16 <ais523> so there's nothing to recurse over
16:00:26 <ais523> AnMaster: configure out of tree and it builds out of tre
16:00:28 <ais523> s/$/e/
16:00:33 <AnMaster> ~/foo/build $ ../configure
16:00:33 <ais523> which is just how it normally works
16:00:56 <AnMaster> or even put the build dir elsewhere
16:01:19 <ais523> I have the build dir alongside the source dir for testing
16:01:25 <ais523> so it's ../newbuild/configure
16:01:53 <ais523> where newbuild in my filesystem = ick-0-29 in everyone else's
16:02:11 <ais523> also I changed the filenames away from DOSish to some extent, so they don't look DOSish any more
16:02:25 <tusho> ais523: but it still works on DOS, right?
16:02:27 <ais523> some of them are even not 8.3, but they truncate to 8.3 in a way that gives unique answers
16:02:34 <ais523> tusho: haven't tested, if it doesn't I'll change it until it does
16:03:37 <AnMaster> <ais523> some of them are even not 8.3, but they truncate to 8.3 in a way that gives unique answers <--- heheh, such an intercal-ish thing to do :D
16:04:15 <AnMaster> ais523, how did you handle the multiple oil output files?
16:04:19 <AnMaster> that was what I got stuck on
16:04:33 <ais523> AnMaster: encapsulated them all in one target that produces a .a as its output
16:04:38 <ais523> marked noinst, so it's only used during the build
16:04:45 <ais523> and I wrote that target by hand
16:04:48 <AnMaster> ah ok
16:04:51 <AnMaster> good idea
16:05:24 <AnMaster> ais523, however will this work with LLVM I wonder. I couldn't get ick to work properly with llvm if the compiler itself was compiled with llvm
16:05:38 <ais523> AnMaster: do you know how to get autotools to use the host CC for some compilation and the target CC for others when cross-compiling
16:05:41 <AnMaster> the issue was somehow that the installed libick.a and such were broken
16:06:00 <ais523> both the old and new build systems almost work when cross-compiling, except that it compiles oil.y for the target not the host and thus can't generate the oil output files
16:06:09 <AnMaster> ais523, hm, haven't really needed to compile stuff that is run during build time
16:06:29 <AnMaster> but I'm quite sure it is possible
16:06:32 <ais523> no, apparently neither have they
16:06:36 <ais523> I know it's possible because gcc does it
16:06:40 <AnMaster> yes
16:06:48 <AnMaster> but gcc even use it's own version of libtool iirc
16:07:08 <ais523> well I'm not using libtool yet, but I may do at some point, it makes sense for libick.a to really be libick.so
16:07:20 <AnMaster> ais523, well yes and no
16:07:32 <AnMaster> there could be issues with .so
16:07:40 <ais523> and yes, I know there are issues with .so
16:07:43 <ais523> I even know what some of them are
16:08:03 <AnMaster> basically: 1) if installed to prefix, the library need to be found at runtime
16:08:13 <AnMaster> 2) the nasty bit is where symbols bind
16:08:32 <ais523> 1) is pretty nasty, ldd is unlikely to know about where to look for INTERCAL symbols
16:08:49 <AnMaster> if a symbol name is used in several *.so
16:09:00 <AnMaster> and it is globally visible
16:09:04 <ais523> and I can't just use my amazing findandfopen function (designed to make sure that there is a skeleton in the closet no matter how badly the user tries to screw up the installation)
16:09:21 <ais523> AnMaster: well all the symbol names are mangled with ick_ in C-INTERCAL already
16:09:21 <AnMaster> any call from inside *any* of those .so that define it will refer to a single one of the functions
16:09:23 <AnMaster> instead of the local one
16:09:38 <ais523> I used nm to check what they all were
16:09:42 <ais523> for the FFI to C
16:09:46 <AnMaster> ais523, also that overhead of looking up symbols in the global symbol table.... well
16:09:48 <ais523> so I didn't impinge on user namespace
16:09:59 <AnMaster> you can get around that somewhat with GNU LD
16:10:10 <AnMaster> but that is non-portable
16:10:10 <ais523> AnMaster: I don't particularly worry about the overhead given how ridiculously slow INTERCAL programs are likely to be anyway
16:11:05 <ais523> I'm most worried about ABI changes
16:11:43 <AnMaster> yes that too
16:11:46 <ais523> that's what landed Windows into a whole lot of trouble with its DLLs, to be precise their installers tended to bundle the DLL with the program and often overwrote newer versions with older by mistake
16:11:50 <ais523> even deliberately sometimes...
16:11:57 <AnMaster> ais523, since I install ick into ~/local/ick
16:11:59 <AnMaster> well
16:12:07 <ais523> a good package manager can solve that, not everyone has access to one of those though
16:12:09 <AnMaster> the library search path is an issue for me
16:12:22 <AnMaster> ais523, I wouldn't install a darcs version outside my home dir
16:12:34 <ais523> makes sense
16:12:42 <ais523> the darcs versions are not guaranteed to work or even make any kind of sense
16:12:58 <ais523> anyway, I'd better get around to applying that IFFI patch before you think to check...
16:13:29 <AnMaster> /usr is reserved for package manager, /usr/local I don't use, since finding what file comes from what program would be painful
16:13:57 <AnMaster> /opt is also for package manager, but I may use it if I have to, since you can do one directory for the program that way, but it has the downside of library search path again
16:13:58 <ais523> I use sufficiently few programs that I have /usr/local organised in my head
16:14:03 <AnMaster> so /home/local/<program>
16:14:05 <AnMaster> err
16:14:10 <AnMaster> so $HOME/local/<program>
16:14:43 <AnMaster> ais523, I do use few such programs, but they are some that spread out lots and lots of files in the lib and share dirs
16:15:15 <AnMaster> 80 files in ~/local/flightgear-osg/lib
16:15:17 <AnMaster> for example
16:15:19 <ais523> ugh
16:15:24 <AnMaster> and two are subdirs
16:15:28 <AnMaster> with a lot more files
16:15:56 <AnMaster> thankfully those happen to have a sane naming scheme
16:16:06 <ais523> C-INTERCAL installs two files in prefix/bin, some libraries with obvious names in prefix/lib, man and info in the correct places in prefix/share, and the data files and include files are in a subdirectory specific to ick
16:16:15 <ais523> so it doesn't really get in the way at all
16:16:16 <AnMaster> libosg* libplib* libsg* libOpenThreads.so.*
16:16:33 <AnMaster> and that is svn version btw
16:17:05 <AnMaster> ais523, well you use automake to install now or?
16:17:17 <ais523> AnMaster: still experimental, I'm planning to use that eventually though
16:17:37 <AnMaster> ~/local/llvm/lib, now that contains a special version of gcc in it
16:17:43 <AnMaster> no way I would want that in /usr/local
16:17:50 <ais523> yes
16:17:55 <ais523> what if it was called llvm-gcc?
16:18:05 <AnMaster> well yes it is, but there is ~/local/llvm/lib/gcc
16:18:15 <ais523> I'm still struggling with PATH problems with gcc-bf as it is
16:18:19 <AnMaster> ~/local/llvm/lib/gcc/x86_64-unknown-linux-gnu/4.2.1/
16:18:22 <AnMaster> it seems
16:18:36 <ais523> it wants to install everything as bf-gcc, bf-ar, etc. in /usr/bin or /usr/local/bin
16:18:37 <AnMaster> ais523, well the binaries are prefixed with llvm-
16:18:43 <AnMaster> so I got it in my PATH
16:18:53 <AnMaster> just I don't like the mixed mess of all these in one place
16:18:59 <ais523> yes, I'm using the same trick, fake /bin directory in the path for some things
16:19:04 <AnMaster> uninstalling one or upgrading one would be PAINFUL
16:19:07 <AnMaster> eh?
16:19:33 <ais523> for other things I rely on the fact that if you tell gcc where it will be installed before you install it, then you compile and install it and access it with an absolute path, it can find ld and so on by itself
16:19:33 <AnMaster> what do you mean with fake bin?
16:19:41 <ais523> AnMaster: a directory on the path holding binaries
16:19:44 <ais523> that's prefix/bin
16:19:47 <ais523> for installing binaries into
16:20:03 <AnMaster> well I always install with --prefix so I can keep track of them
16:20:17 <AnMaster> and if I find it useful I may put it in the PATH
16:20:21 <AnMaster> often I don't
16:20:55 <ais523> I aim to get C-INTERCAL working with no support from the PATH
16:20:59 <AnMaster> for example for flightgear that I mentioned above I got a complex wrapper script to construct command line arguments
16:21:01 <AnMaster> $ ~/bin/run-fgfs --aircraft=lightning
16:21:01 <AnMaster> Final command line: --multiplay=out,10,mpserver06.flightgear.org,5000 --multiplay=in,10,192.168.0.64,5000 --enable-fuel-freeze --disable-auto-coordination --disable-real-weather-fetch --disable-game-mode --prop:sim/traffic-manager/enabled=0 --prop:/sim/sound/voices/enabled=true --aircraft=lightning
16:21:03 <ais523> even without support from make install, on occasion
16:21:03 <AnMaster> see? :D
16:21:37 <AnMaster> and then stuff like -w to make it -enable-real-weather-fetch and so on
16:21:51 <AnMaster> and it also sets various env variables
16:32:04 -!- Slereah has joined.
16:34:50 <tusho> sooooooooooo
16:37:49 <Slereah> uuuuuuuuuuup
16:37:54 <Slereah> soup.
16:46:35 <tusho> ais523: give me a crazy esolang idea.
16:46:41 <tusho> or just esoteric in general
16:47:04 <ais523> tusho: trying to think of one
16:47:11 <ais523> I had one a while ago and forgot it, which is annoying
16:47:24 <ais523> ah, I remember
16:47:31 <ais523> it's a pair of languages with very similar syntax
16:47:38 <ais523> all programs have to be a polyglot in both languages
16:47:48 <ais523> and the output of one program is piped to the input of the other
16:47:57 <ais523> optionally with a third program in between
16:48:05 <ais523> and the two programs are opposites in a sense
16:48:56 <ais523> tusho: ^
16:49:07 <tusho> hmm
16:49:14 <tusho> that's interesting but i'm not sure how you'd go about it
16:49:17 <ais523> programming gcc is like that
16:50:01 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)).
16:51:01 <ais523> the .md file is a polyglot between a file that translates GIMPLE to RTL and a file that translates RTL to asm
16:51:35 -!- Slereah has joined.
16:51:56 <ais523> made out of lots of commands that contain the standard pattern that comes out from the GIMPLE, the RTL, and the asm all in one command
16:52:02 <Slereah> D:<
16:52:17 <ais523> with various things you can tweak all over the place to get the two halves to act differently
16:55:27 <tusho> Hooray. #web is run by a power-mad retard.
16:56:23 -!- ais523_ has joined.
16:56:40 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
16:56:55 <tusho> The op got angry at a guy for no reason, I pointed out an error in his reasoning, he responded with the same reasons and said 'got it?', I told him that his reasons were still wrong for the reasons I said, he opped himself and said 'GOT IT?', I told him that blindly asserting reasons while ignoring rebuttals and then threatening those who take issue with them is not acceptable and he could ban me if he wished, so he did, and says it's for 24 hours.
16:56:59 <ais523_> sorry...
16:57:01 <tusho> lol, irc
16:57:03 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523.
16:57:09 <ais523> tusho: which channel?
16:57:15 <tusho> ais523: #web
16:57:24 <ais523> sounds pretty general...
16:57:42 <tusho> quite
16:57:54 <tusho> it's web *development*
16:57:57 <tusho> still general, but less so
16:58:53 <ais523> I don't suppose it's owned by the inventor of the Web?
16:59:28 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
16:59:34 <tusho> No. I think it's correct, actually.
16:59:36 <tusho> Like #esoteric.
16:59:43 <tusho> It's only for actual tangible things that the ## thing applies, I think.
16:59:51 <ais523> I suppose so, something that's so common it doesn't need a ##
16:59:59 <ais523> I wonder who invented esolangs?
17:00:00 <tusho> (So I guess we should actually be on #nomic...)
17:00:18 <ais523> and no, it's pretty clear that Nomic was invented by someone in particular
17:00:24 -!- Slereah has joined.
17:00:27 <Slereah> Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah
17:00:29 <Slereah> Help me!
17:00:30 <ais523> and most discussions of Nomic reference Suber sometime
17:00:33 <ais523> hi Slereah
17:00:51 <tusho> ais523: it's not a tangible thing,t hough
17:01:00 <tusho> "windows" is an actual product, a thing, an entity
17:01:06 <tusho> therefore, since the channel is not official it is ##windows
17:01:09 <tusho> but 'esoteric', 'web', 'nomic'
17:01:11 <tusho> abstract concepts
17:02:43 <tusho> hmm
17:02:53 <tusho> speaking of annoyances that are prominent in channels
17:02:56 <tusho> does ##c still have poppavic?
17:03:02 <tusho> joy.
17:03:03 <tusho> yes it does.
17:06:08 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection).
17:06:24 -!- ais523 has joined.
17:09:21 <tusho> ais523: i have an eso project for you
17:09:36 <ais523> tusho: I have too many at the moment, but go on
17:09:43 <tusho> find out what system calls and stuff emacs uses, and implement them, and get a tty working etc. then, well, just boot emacs
17:09:51 <tusho> essentially, write the least possible kernel that will run emacs
17:10:11 <ais523> tusho: it can be run on DOS, and that's pretty minimal
17:10:21 <tusho> ais523: yes, but it still has tons of unneeded stuff
17:10:26 <tusho> all this OS would need to do is run one program at kernel level
17:10:28 <ais523> I wonder if it runs on DOS 1?
17:10:32 <ais523> that doesn't even have directories
17:10:40 <tusho> and nothing else
17:12:27 <ais523> well gcc_bf only has 2 syscalls
17:12:37 <ais523> I wonder if I could get emacs running on that?
17:12:56 <tusho> i doubt it :P
17:14:24 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
17:15:47 -!- Slereah has joined.
17:15:49 <Slereah> Aaaaaaaaaaaaaah
17:15:54 <Slereah> I am at my wits end!
17:15:59 <Slereah> No more wits do I have.
17:18:46 <Slereah> Shit. There it goes again.
17:21:58 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
17:22:06 -!- ais523 has joined.
17:22:48 <ais523> ugh
17:22:52 <ais523> it's almost as though I'm competing with Slereah to see who has the least reliable connection
17:32:13 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)).
17:35:02 -!- ais523 has joined.
17:36:50 <tusho> ais523: you win
17:36:51 <tusho> lost the game
17:37:05 <ais523> heh
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17:42:10 -!- Slereah has joined.
17:44:42 <AnMaster> back
17:44:53 <Slereah> Hulo
17:45:46 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
17:48:10 <AnMaster> Slereah, what were you shouting about before?
17:49:37 -!- ais523 has joined.
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18:01:11 <tusho> ais523 has shouted?
18:01:13 <tusho> :P
18:01:24 <ais523> tusho: ?
18:01:32 <tusho> oh
18:01:34 <tusho> I misread
18:01:35 <tusho> AnMaster: Slereah, what were you shouting about before?
18:01:37 <tusho> but
18:01:40 <tusho> your quit line was above it
18:01:58 <ais523> optbot!
18:01:59 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | But it's not implementable, usable, interesting, or hard, or anything really.
18:02:08 * ais523 likes the new topic
18:02:11 <ais523> well done optbot
18:02:12 <optbot> ais523: maybe it'd be clearer in java
18:02:21 <ais523> no no, bad optbot!
18:02:21 <optbot> ais523: I was working on optimising the C-from-Underload code
18:02:37 <ais523> hmm... that must have been either me or tusho, I suspect tusho
18:02:48 <tusho> hmm
18:02:50 <tusho> that's not how i type
18:03:10 <tusho> ais523: the current topic is mine
18:03:18 <tusho> commenting on asie's stupid "-1 instruction set idea"
18:03:24 <tusho> (every instruction except anything that makes the machine halt)
18:03:41 <tusho> ais523: 08.01.16:07:50:59 <ais523> I was working on optimising the C-from-Underload code
18:03:47 <ais523> ah, it was me
18:04:03 <ais523> let's play guess-the-optbot-utterance!
18:04:04 <optbot> ais523: The same applies to the vast majority of command-line UNIX, to be honest. . .
18:04:18 <ais523> hmm... not sure, I don't know who in here types ... like that
18:04:22 <tusho> pikhq
18:04:27 <tusho> always puts spaces in
18:04:31 <ais523> ah, ok
18:04:34 <tusho> and uses correct grammar
18:07:52 <ais523> tusho: have you seen dogface around recently?
18:08:02 <tusho> ais523: dogface is ihope
18:08:04 <tusho> but no
18:08:06 <tusho> not apart from ##nomic
18:08:07 <ais523> I know
18:08:10 <ais523> I was using the new name
18:08:13 <tusho> he only seems to join certain channels and only for a tiny time
18:08:15 <tusho> ais523: no, he's ihope these days
18:08:19 <tusho> he changed back
18:08:20 <ais523> ah, changed back?
18:08:32 <tusho> he was DogFace or DogKing or something in sine when i first went there
18:08:36 <tusho> so i guess he just has a lot of nicks
18:14:33 <AnMaster> ais523, how goes feather?
18:14:46 <ais523> not very much at the moment, I'm working on other things
18:14:52 <ais523> which I have talked about at length in this channel already
18:16:58 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined.
18:18:12 <tusho> 11:54:16 <ehird`> and your - is I(n)
18:18:14 <tusho> what does that mean
18:18:26 <ais523> could have been a typo for O(n)
18:18:35 <ais523> which is pretty bad for subtract/decrement
18:18:40 <ais523> but typical in esoteric functional languages
18:22:09 <tusho> ah, of course
18:22:10 <tusho> for your bf->ul
18:29:15 <tusho> i still want http://xn--fvg8298f9da.xn--ii7c.org/
18:33:34 -!- asiekierka has joined.
18:33:36 <asiekierka> Hello
18:33:42 <ais523> hello
18:33:50 <ais523> tusho: is that Punycode?
18:33:53 <asiekierka> oh, and hello, tusho, i heard you aged to 30 all of a sudden
18:34:07 <tusho> ais523: yes, for a thing that looks like ,[.,]
18:34:13 <tusho> specifically ,[ as a subdomain of ,]
18:34:15 <tusho> but not those exact chars ofc
18:34:16 <tusho> just lookalikes
18:34:19 <tusho> asiekierka: er no
18:34:28 <asiekierka> Tusho: I don't believe you're 12.
18:34:33 <tusho> asiekierka: why not
18:34:48 <ais523> tusho: tbh neither do I, what with you claiming it was your birthday recently...
18:34:50 <asiekierka> Because you wouldn't be at this level of knowledge right now
18:34:54 <tusho> ais523: that's true.
18:35:02 <tusho> asiekierka: stop being a moron, there's been a video of my posted here
18:35:07 <asiekierka> Show it
18:35:11 <asiekierka> go ahead, show it, show it
18:35:12 <tusho> I'll take a picture right now
18:35:17 <ais523> asiekierka: that might be illegal, you know
18:35:17 <asiekierka> Well, no
18:35:21 <asiekierka> a video
18:35:22 <tusho> ais523: it is
18:35:23 <tusho> well
18:35:25 <tusho> i think so
18:35:27 <tusho> yes
18:35:28 <ais523> in the US, I think so
18:35:28 <asiekierka> well, not in poland
18:35:31 <ais523> not so sure about the UL
18:35:34 <ais523> s/UL/UK/
18:35:36 <ais523> but still probably
18:35:43 <tusho> coppa says that asking for personal information of someone you believe to be a minor is illegal
18:35:51 <asiekierka> Yeah
18:35:55 <asiekierka> but i'm from poland not the US
18:36:04 <tusho> you're on US servers
18:36:16 <asiekierka> And?
18:36:20 <ais523> [17:49] [MOTD] - By registering your nickname with Nickserv you agree that you
18:36:20 <ais523> [17:49] [MOTD] - are 13 years of age, or older. For more information about the
18:36:20 <ais523> [17:49] [MOTD] - Children's Online Privacy Protection Act please see their
18:36:20 <ais523> [17:49] [MOTD] - website at (http://www.coppa.org).
18:36:29 <asiekierka> Oh
18:36:38 <asiekierka> Well
18:36:39 <asiekierka> brb
18:36:43 <ais523> hmm... does anybody bother to read the Freenode on-server-join spam?
18:36:45 -!- asiekierka has quit (Client Quit).
18:36:51 <tusho> lol, asie just left because he's under 13
18:36:53 <tusho> i guarantee it
18:37:03 -!- asiekierka has joined.
18:37:08 <asiekierka> I do not
18:37:29 <asiekierka> Wait...
18:37:33 <asiekierka> Tusho is also registered
18:37:35 <asiekierka> and he's 12
18:37:36 <asiekierka> not 13
18:37:38 <tusho> I am 13.
18:37:42 <asiekierka> Heh
18:37:43 <tusho> I had my birthday on August 22nd.
18:37:48 <asiekierka> But you WERE 12
18:37:50 <tusho> Yes.
18:38:00 <tusho> I flagrantly violated COPPA daily.
18:38:12 <asiekierka> I do it for 2 years or so now
18:38:13 <asiekierka> And so far
18:38:18 <asiekierka> No-one got into my hhhhhhhhhhh
18:38:22 <asiekierka> ok, back
18:38:25 <asiekierka> hhhhhhhhhhhouse
18:38:25 <tusho> That is not a sentence.
18:38:28 <asiekierka> To sue me, or something
18:38:42 <tusho> ais523: could you interpret his sentences for me
18:38:49 <tusho> i understand about half of them
18:39:03 <ais523> tusho: possibly, but I don't want to expend the brainpower. fungot, say something more intelligible, please!
18:39:04 <fungot> ais523: yome i'm not sure if it'll run on os 9. there's a //great// system service and daemon system.
18:39:21 <asiekierka> I see
18:39:25 <tusho> ais523: not even asiekierka could top fungot
18:39:25 <fungot> tusho: cl doesn't too much what? how?
18:39:32 <asiekierka> you want me to get out of this place, because i'm illegal in the US
18:39:40 <tusho> no
18:39:42 <tusho> i never said that.
18:39:45 <ais523> we just want you to stay on-topic
18:39:57 <tusho> ais523: actually i don't care about him staying on-topic
18:39:58 <ais523> rather than steer onto conversations that have lead to flamewars or similar in the past
18:40:03 <asiekierka> And what is the topic
18:40:04 <ais523> off-topic's fine as long as it isn't contentious
18:40:08 <tusho> I care about him not saying random crap and attributing it to people who never said anything like that
18:40:09 <ais523> asiekierka: see the topic
18:40:18 <tusho> and then flooding the place
18:40:19 <asiekierka> Well, agree
18:40:32 <asiekierka> Just replace "But it's" with "Asiekierka is"
18:40:45 <ais523> we have a random topicbot here
18:40:47 <ais523> hi optbot
18:40:47 <optbot> ais523: but it wouldn't work for bf, so it's probably not very interesting
18:40:49 <tusho> ais523: he knows
18:40:53 <tusho> having spammed "optbot!" for hours on end
18:40:54 <optbot> tusho: too many typos spoil the broth
18:40:54 <asiekierka> Can i do an optbot(!)
18:40:55 <optbot> asiekierka: hm
18:40:56 <ais523> ^echo optbot
18:40:56 <fungot> optbot optbot
18:40:56 <optbot> ais523: })}) <-- I like this language already -->
18:40:57 <optbot> fungot: (at least while freeing)
18:40:58 <fungot> optbot: i think distance should be measure in light years. well, maybe
18:40:59 <optbot> fungot: . . . Unless the size of each variable is unlimited or something.
18:40:59 <tusho> until we yelled at him to stop
18:40:59 <fungot> optbot: even better if there's a srfi for it? :(
18:41:00 <optbot> fungot: please paste another one!
18:41:01 <fungot> optbot: once you do check syntax, you have
18:41:01 <asiekierka> So, optbot, can i?
18:41:02 <optbot> fungot: blarg
18:41:02 <optbot> asiekierka: and it's only like 30 lines
18:41:02 <fungot> optbot: except for the author of cobol female/ cow/ tip"
18:41:03 <optbot> fungot: Aha.
18:41:08 <ais523> <optbot> fungot: please paste another one!
18:41:09 <fungot> ais523: this is the ( infinite) and tried to deactivate you
18:41:09 <optbot> ais523: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
18:41:09 <asiekierka> So, can i do it, optbot!?
18:41:10 <optbot> asiekierka: lol
18:41:17 <asiekierka> No, srsly, can i do it, optbot
18:41:18 <optbot> asiekierka: Rails adds untold horror to an already hideous language
18:41:23 <tusho> <fungot> ais523: this is the ( infinite) and tried to deactivate you
18:41:24 <tusho> <optbot> ais523: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH
18:41:24 <optbot> tusho: Wait a minute...
18:41:24 <fungot> tusho: please someone send me an e-mail?
18:41:25 <asiekierka> What? Sorry, can i do it, optbot
18:41:26 <optbot> asiekierka: There's probably a term for it already, but mine works.
18:41:35 <asiekierka> And what is it, optbot
18:41:36 <optbot> asiekierka: tell me!
18:41:36 <ais523> <fungot> optbot: except for the author of cobol female/ cow/ tip" <--- that's quite worrying
18:41:36 <fungot> ais523: i don't think he's really an fnord)
18:41:37 <optbot> ais523: !bf [-.]
18:41:42 <asiekierka> Optbot, it's "yes".
18:41:43 <optbot> asiekierka: and distinguish them both?
18:41:48 <asiekierka> Optbot, YES.
18:41:48 <optbot> asiekierka: U+0145 is ล…, "LATIN CAPITAL LETTER N WITH CEDILLA".
18:41:54 <asiekierka> Optbot, duhh, so can i
18:41:54 <optbot> asiekierka: Granted.
18:41:58 <asiekierka> Ok, i will
18:41:59 <ais523> optbot: ~}|{zyxwvutsrqponmlkjihgfedcba...
18:42:00 <asiekierka> optbot!
18:42:00 <optbot> ais523: The girl doesn't look too thrilled
18:42:00 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | THAT'S LIKE INSULTING GOOGLE!!!!!.
18:42:06 <asiekierka> xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
18:43:07 <asiekierka> I want to do a TV Service
18:43:18 <asiekierka> AsieSat, or ASSat for short. Yeah, i see the joke
18:43:31 * ais523 tries to guess who said the topic
18:43:36 <ais523> I think the context was a flamewar
18:43:41 <ais523> possibly between rival OSs
18:43:46 <ais523> and someone decided to parody it
18:43:49 <ais523> not sure, though
18:44:09 <asiekierka> SOMEONE RUN A SEARCH ON #ESOTERIC LOGS!!!!!
18:44:20 <tusho> asiekierka. you have just flooded the channel with like 100 pointless chat with optbot
18:44:21 <optbot> tusho: that website seems to work fine for me in w3m
18:44:27 <tusho> what were we just not telling you to do?
18:44:27 <asiekierka> just 8
18:44:30 <asiekierka> and you doubled it, too
18:44:57 <asiekierka> I just wanted to get out an answer from him
18:45:20 <tusho> asiekierka: it's incredibly annoying for everyone else, though
18:45:26 <asiekierka> oh ok
18:45:32 <asiekierka> optbot: !
18:45:33 <optbot> asiekierka: 'Trivial'.
18:45:33 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
18:45:37 -!- puzzlet has joined.
18:48:43 * asiekierka goes to the old and dusty switch room from his previous roleplay
18:49:02 <asiekierka> {{Remember that? That one in a black box and with cubes and a universe-modifying C64?}}
18:49:38 <tusho> asiekierka: oh, you're hijacking #esoteric again for that IRC RPG that nobody wants to play?
18:50:33 <asiekierka> Sorry, but yeah.
18:50:43 <tusho> ais523: tell him to stop
18:50:46 <asiekierka> THE MAN FORC---Nothing, nothing, blowing out dust
18:50:46 <tusho> please
18:50:48 <tusho> he never listens to me
18:50:54 <ais523> lament: tell asiekierka to stop
18:51:21 * asiekierka takes over lament for a split second
18:51:27 <asiekierka> {as lament} tusho: tell asiekierka to stop
18:51:31 * asiekierka becomes back at asiekierka
18:51:33 <tusho> asiekierka.
18:51:34 <tusho> seriously.
18:51:34 <tusho> stop it.
18:51:38 <asiekierka> :(
18:51:48 <tusho> it's ok to be silly but you're just being annoying. :|
18:51:55 <asiekierka> :((
18:52:08 <tusho> smiley faces with ( in them don't change that
18:52:56 <asiekierka> :((((
18:53:01 <asiekierka> You're mean.
18:53:10 <tusho> asiekierka: i'm only mean beacuse you've done it so many times
18:53:18 <tusho> and however many times you're told that you're being annoying you just keep doing it
18:53:26 <ais523> ^bf ,[.,]!test
18:53:26 <fungot> test
18:53:55 <asiekierka> But i want to do it... somewhere
18:53:58 <asiekierka> Where
18:54:05 <tusho> asiekierka: notepad.
18:54:09 <asiekierka> But with someone
18:54:15 <asiekierka> There's no multiplayer notepad, is there
18:54:16 <tusho> find someone who actually wants to.
18:54:19 <tusho> and yes
18:54:19 <tusho> moonedit
18:55:06 <asiekierka> Where to find these people?
18:55:08 <ais523> there are multiple multiplayer notepads around I expect
18:55:22 <tusho> asiekierka: i don't know! this isn't #social-skills
18:55:25 <tusho> forums
18:55:28 <asiekierka> FORUMS?
18:55:30 <tusho> asiekierka: #defocus?
18:55:30 <asiekierka> Oh nononono
18:55:38 <tusho> that's freenode's general social channel. find someone there.
18:55:41 <ais523> tusho: suggesting #defocus was evil
18:55:50 <tusho> ais523: at least he'll bother them, not us
18:55:53 <tusho> and most of the stuff in there is tripe anyway
18:55:55 <ais523> not sure why, though
18:55:57 <ais523> or who towards
18:56:50 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
18:56:55 <tusho> let me guess
18:57:00 <tusho> he's going to come back very very soon
18:57:08 -!- asiekierka has joined.
18:57:08 <tusho> and start this whole annoyance-unhappy-quit cycle again
18:57:12 <tusho> oho
18:58:29 <AnMaster> <fungot> ais523: yome i'm not sure if it'll run on os 9. there's a //great// system service and daemon system. <-- hahaha
18:58:29 <fungot> AnMaster: as it ought to be
18:58:42 <ais523> what is yome anyway
18:58:42 <AnMaster> and yes I used MacOS 9
18:58:54 <tusho> where is oklopol when you need him
18:58:54 <AnMaster> so I know how crappy it is
18:58:59 <AnMaster> no memory protection
18:59:14 <tusho> AnMaster: amiga didn't have that either
18:59:16 <AnMaster> what you had were not really DOS TSR but almost as bad
18:59:17 <tusho> still a great os
18:59:28 <AnMaster> tusho, sure, back when it was modern
18:59:36 <AnMaster> but OS 9 crashed daily
18:59:57 <AnMaster> or rather, random programs crashed and made the OS crash daily
19:00:05 <fizzie> yome is just a person on freenode/#scheme.
19:00:32 <tusho> ais523: i have a sort of database idea that would work well for things like the counter log
19:00:42 <tusho> sort of "inverted db"
19:00:44 <ais523> go on
19:01:21 <tusho> ais523: okay
19:01:21 <tusho> :P
19:01:23 <tusho> well
19:01:29 <tusho> if you have the columns A,B,C and D
19:01:33 <tusho> instead of
19:01:39 <tusho> {key: (A,B,C,D), ...}
19:01:40 <tusho> you have
19:01:50 <tusho> {key:A,...} {key:B,...} etc
19:01:58 <tusho> so you can look things up by anything
19:02:08 <ais523> that's just indexes, isn't it?
19:02:11 <tusho> and reconstruct with (astore[key],bstore[key]...)
19:02:12 <tusho> ais523: well yes
19:02:14 <tusho> but you have no master copy
19:02:17 <tusho> everything is in the index
19:02:20 <tusho> well
19:02:20 <tusho> ok
19:02:23 <tusho> i'll give an example
19:02:35 <tusho> id is the internal row identifier
19:02:38 <tusho> probably just a big int
19:02:42 <tusho> and we have the columns
19:02:44 <tusho> foo and bar
19:02:46 <tusho> both integers
19:03:22 <tusho> foo_store = {foo: [id]}; bar_store = {bar: [id]}
19:03:28 <tusho> hnn
19:03:29 <tusho> *hmm
19:03:30 <tusho> i think
19:03:41 <AnMaster> is Tk portable?
19:03:45 <AnMaster> just wondering
19:03:52 <tusho> AnMaster: yes
19:03:54 <AnMaster> as in across most *nix + windows
19:03:56 <tusho> but not native everywhere
19:03:59 <tusho> and ugly most places
19:03:59 <AnMaster> and possibly other OS
19:04:06 <AnMaster> tusho, ugly *everywhere*
19:04:12 <tusho> AnMaster: no, on windows it looks fine
19:04:16 <tusho> and on os x it is kind of ok
19:04:19 <AnMaster> really?
19:04:23 <tusho> on OS X it's like a retard tried to make an OS X interface
19:04:26 <tusho> wrong fonts, input fields are wrong, etc
19:04:28 <AnMaster> and isn't tk related to tcl in some way?
19:04:29 <AnMaster> iirc
19:04:31 <tusho> AnMaster: yes
19:04:36 <tusho> it's a tcl api
19:04:54 <AnMaster> so how comes it is used outside TCL?
19:05:07 <tusho> because it is.
19:05:07 <AnMaster> for example there is TK for Perl iirc, and even for python I think?
19:05:11 <AnMaster> and erlang use it
19:05:25 <tusho> yes, and?
19:05:29 <AnMaster> well why
19:05:48 <tusho> because it works and is easy to us.
19:05:49 <tusho> *use
19:05:51 <tusho> very easy to use
19:06:04 <AnMaster> I mean there is GTK, QT, wx, and a heap of other ones
19:06:07 <AnMaster> that all look better
19:06:18 <tusho> but they are difficult to use
19:06:23 <AnMaster> hm maybe
19:06:31 <tusho> not maybe
19:06:32 <tusho> very definitely
19:06:38 <tusho> gtk, qt, wx, they are all a right pain to use
19:06:44 <tusho> you can get a hello world in tk in 3 lines of simple code
19:07:15 <tusho> AnMaster:
19:07:16 <tusho> package require Tk
19:07:16 <tusho> button .hello -text "Hello, World!" -command { exit }
19:07:16 <tusho> pack .hello
19:07:23 <tusho> you click the button and it exits
19:07:23 <tusho> trivial
19:07:24 <AnMaster> well
19:07:25 <tusho> (that's in tcl)
19:07:31 <tusho> and the apis in other languages are identical
19:07:35 <AnMaster> sure it is easy to use from tcl
19:07:48 <AnMaster> well can you avoid including tcl at all then?
19:07:50 <AnMaster> and use tk
19:08:01 <tusho> AnMaster: no, the other languages apis just call the tcl functions
19:08:02 <tusho> it's trivial
19:08:06 <tusho> and tcl is tiny-footprint
19:08:08 <AnMaster> tusho, so they need tcl installed?
19:08:09 <AnMaster> hrrm
19:08:17 <tusho> AnMaster: tcl and tk are the same package in a lot of distros
19:08:18 <tusho> most, i'd say
19:08:23 <AnMaster> probably
19:08:50 <tusho> tk looks good on windows
19:08:53 <tusho> it looks pretty much native
19:08:58 <tusho> apart from, again, input fields
19:09:08 <tusho> but yeah, while tk is fine on os x, i could easily spot a tk from a nontk app
19:09:14 <tusho> and on x11...bwaahhahahaha
19:09:15 <tusho> although
19:09:17 <tusho> there is a theme engine for tk
19:09:20 <tusho> that makes it look OK on x11
19:09:25 <ais523> tusho: just like you can spot a Java GUI application a mile off?
19:09:32 <tusho> ais523: not on OS X
19:09:32 <ais523> at least if Swing-based?
19:09:33 <AnMaster> ais523, ah yes
19:09:34 <tusho> it uses native controls
19:09:36 <tusho> with swing
19:09:39 <ais523> wow
19:09:43 <tusho> ais523: yep
19:09:43 <ais523> but doesn't that defeat the point of Swing
19:09:47 <tusho> kind of
19:09:49 <AnMaster> well QT and GTK looks good on X
19:09:49 <AnMaster> :D
19:09:53 <tusho> i'm not complaining though
19:09:56 <tusho> apple did it, i think
19:09:57 <AnMaster> they are both native I'd say
19:09:57 <tusho> not java
19:09:59 <tusho> er
19:09:59 <tusho> not sun
19:10:17 <tusho> but yes
19:10:24 <tusho> java apps are a pleasure to use on os x
19:11:00 <AnMaster> at least wings use some other GUI, home made I think
19:11:06 <AnMaster> but looks good and works well
19:11:22 <AnMaster> and way way less messy than the custom style blender use
19:11:39 <AnMaster> (wings is a 3D modeller in erlang, in case you wonder)
19:11:49 <AnMaster> (rather good for polygon modelling)
19:11:57 <tusho> AnMaster: good thing you told us that
19:12:02 <tusho> we'd only heard it 30 times
19:12:05 <AnMaster> no
19:12:07 <tusho> it's starting to sink in now
19:12:09 <AnMaster> you maybe heard it twice
19:12:44 <AnMaster> ooooh I just have to link tusho to this :D
19:12:46 <AnMaster> he will love it
19:12:53 <tusho> sigh
19:12:56 <AnMaster> http://www.erlang.org/doc/efficiency_guide/part_frame.html
19:12:57 * AnMaster runs
19:13:09 <tusho> shut the fuck up AnMaster
19:13:17 <AnMaster> hahah :D
19:13:19 <tusho> there is a difference between carefully optimizing operations that need it
19:13:25 <AnMaster> tusho, indeed
19:13:27 <tusho> and making your code fucking unreadable and shit for no reason
19:13:31 <tusho> apart from 0.000001ms
19:13:35 <AnMaster> well my code isn't unreadable
19:13:39 <tusho> yes it is
19:13:47 <AnMaster> it got a high comment ratio according to ohloh
19:13:49 <AnMaster> ;)
19:14:02 <AnMaster> tusho, I think your code tends to be unreadable
19:14:17 <tusho> AnMaster: i'd like to point out that i don't give a shit and you keep bringing up this flamewar
19:14:49 <AnMaster> tusho, you started it
19:14:59 <tusho> <AnMaster> ooooh I just have to link tusho to this :D
19:15:00 <tusho> no, you did
19:15:04 <tusho> pretty clear
19:15:05 <AnMaster> tusho, well orignally
19:15:15 <AnMaster> want me to dig up logs?
19:15:19 <tusho> AnMaster: yes. and then i dropped it because it is pointless having any sort of discussion with you
19:15:28 <tusho> and now you keep. fucking. dragging. it. back. up. and. pissing. me. off.
19:15:32 <tusho> stop. it.
19:16:43 <AnMaster> well efunge isn't over-optimised, I did some optimising, but only after trying to run the game of life in b93 under it. Then I used a profiler to find out what made it so slow (took like 20 seconds for each generation, while ccbi took about 1/3 or so, and cfunge 1/10)
19:16:54 <AnMaster> then I optimised that, so it is around 1 second per generation
19:17:03 <AnMaster> by replacing with a more efficient funge space
19:17:04 <tusho> AnMaster: hello, you missed the part where I said "i don't give a shit" and "stop bringing it up"
19:17:07 <AnMaster> I profiled all the time
19:19:22 <tusho> ais523: hm, do you have /usr/bin/command there?
19:19:28 <ais523> let me check
19:19:33 <tusho> it seems to be usable in place of the /usr/bin/env trick except it's actually designed for that
19:19:35 <ais523> no
19:19:36 <tusho> dunno how widespread it is, though
19:19:42 <tusho> ais523: darn
19:19:48 <AnMaster> I don't have it either
19:20:08 <AnMaster> however the is a shell builtin in bash called command
19:20:38 <AnMaster> $ help command
19:20:38 <AnMaster> command: command [-pVv] command [arg ...]
19:20:38 <AnMaster> Runs COMMAND with ARGS ignoring shell functions. If you have a shell
19:20:38 <AnMaster> function called `ls', and you wish to call the command `ls',....
19:20:47 <AnMaster> tusho, if that is what you meant?
19:20:53 <tusho> yes, but that's a shell builtin
19:20:56 <tusho> you can't use that in a shebang
19:20:57 <AnMaster> seems to be posix standard too
19:21:12 <AnMaster> hm
19:21:42 <AnMaster> RATIONALE
19:21:43 <AnMaster> Since command is a regular built-in utility it is always found prior to the PATH search.
19:21:56 <AnMaster> so POSIX seems to say it should be built into shell
19:21:58 -!- oerjan has joined.
19:22:02 <AnMaster> that was from man 1p command
19:22:02 <tusho> darn
19:22:52 <AnMaster> tusho, what are you planning to do?
19:22:56 <AnMaster> if you want to locate bash try
19:23:03 <AnMaster> #!/usr/bin/env bash
19:23:03 <AnMaster> or such
19:23:07 <tusho> AnMaster: i'm not an idiot
19:23:08 -!- asiekierka has quit.
19:23:11 <AnMaster> ok
19:23:14 <tusho> tusho: ais523: hm, do you have /usr/bin/command there?
19:23:15 <tusho> [19:19] ais523: let me check
19:23:15 <tusho> [19:19] tusho: it seems to be usable in place of the /usr/bin/env trick except it's actually designed for that
19:23:16 <AnMaster> what are you planning then
19:23:18 <tusho> reading helps
19:23:21 <tusho> i was just curious
19:25:46 -!- jix has quit ("CommandQ").
19:25:48 <AnMaster> ah posix doesn't say it *have* to be a built in
19:25:57 <AnMaster> but that it will probably be implemented as that
19:26:17 <AnMaster> http://rafb.net/p/o0h09q99.html
19:26:20 <AnMaster> interesting
19:28:09 <tusho> http://www.sexwithcars.org/ <- A forum for people who have sex with cars. I don't know either.
19:28:24 <ais523> tusho: why paste that here?
19:28:39 <tusho> ais523: i found a link to it and thought it sufficiently esoteric in an amusing way
19:34:57 <oerjan> http://www.cyriak.co.uk/lhc/lhc-webcams.html
19:35:36 <ais523> oerjan: are those going to spot the black hole in realtime?
19:36:18 <tusho> ais523: no, you'll be able to watch them to see if the universe has exploded or not
19:36:28 <tusho> LOL
19:36:30 <tusho> haha
19:36:36 <tusho> now that is amusing
19:37:29 <oerjan> (found it on the Irregular Webcomic forum)
19:47:21 <oerjan> these are apparently real (and so, boring): http://www.lhc.ac.uk/web-cams.html
19:48:32 -!- olsner has joined.
19:48:51 <tusho> oerjan: yeah those are boring
19:49:38 <oerjan> although one of them was obviously used to generate the upper part of the first link
20:10:14 <tusho> bye for an hour
20:12:38 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:12:44 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:13:51 -!- ais523 has joined.
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20:48:31 <AnMaster> hm
20:49:01 <CO2Games> God damnit
20:49:05 <CO2Games> I need to shit
20:49:34 <CO2Games> I fucking hate shitting because I have to plunge the toilet every time
20:55:11 -!- Corun has quit ("Leaving").
20:59:40 <AnMaster> what do you think of ocaml?
21:00:55 -!- LinuS has joined.
21:04:18 <Deewiant> ugly :-/
21:06:53 -!- Corun has joined.
21:07:12 <AnMaster> Deewiant, isn't it in the same family as Haskell, both share ML as ancestor iirc
21:07:19 <AnMaster> but yeah that one is uggly too
21:07:21 <AnMaster> ugly*
21:07:25 <AnMaster> so *shrug*
21:08:53 <Deewiant> no, ML isn't Haskell's ancestor
21:09:25 <AnMaster> Deewiant, the syntax looks similar certainly
21:09:43 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)).
21:09:46 <Deewiant> or depends on what you mean of course: they're both functional and ML is older than Haskell so there was probably some influence :-P
21:09:58 <Deewiant> Haskell is much prettier than ML IMO
21:10:05 <oerjan> the polymorphic type system was certainly introduced in ML
21:10:06 <Deewiant> or maybe I've only seen crap ML code
21:10:36 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I mean, they share the look of unreadable and using | in odd ways,
21:10:41 <oerjan> certainly there are many inspirations
21:11:11 <Deewiant> Haskell, along with Lisp, has the most readable code syntax-wise IMO :-P
21:11:23 <Deewiant> and as for |... I'm not going to respond
21:11:53 <AnMaster> examples from wikipedia: some haskell:
21:11:53 <AnMaster> f x
21:11:53 <AnMaster> | x > 0 = 1
21:11:53 <AnMaster> | otherwise = 0
21:11:53 <AnMaster> some ml: fun fac 0 = 1
21:11:53 <AnMaster> | fac n = n * fac (n-1)
21:12:05 <AnMaster> err there was a missing newline after ml:
21:12:05 <AnMaster> but well
21:12:13 <AnMaster> I think they seem pretty similar
21:12:16 <AnMaster> not same function indeed
21:12:20 <Deewiant> yes, because implementing a trivial two-liner says everything :-P
21:12:22 <AnMaster> but the general syntax
21:12:43 <oerjan> the | does not mean exactly the same thing there though
21:12:46 <Deewiant> what little real ocaml source code I've seen, I've found ugly
21:12:49 <AnMaster> probably not
21:12:53 -!- ais523 has joined.
21:12:55 <oerjan> another haskell version is:
21:12:58 <oerjan> f 0 = 1
21:12:59 <AnMaster> I don't know either language, I just note they look similar
21:13:03 <oerjan> f _ = 0
21:13:13 <Deewiant> f = fromEnum . (>0)
21:13:17 <AnMaster> they certainly look more like each other than like, say, erlang or prolog
21:13:32 <ais523> which languages?
21:13:34 <AnMaster> while erlang and prolog look quite similar according to ais523
21:13:39 <AnMaster> ais523, ML and Haskell
21:13:42 <oerjan> the | is used for conditional guards in haskell, but to separate cases in ML (apparently)
21:13:51 <Deewiant> is this ML now or O'Caml?
21:13:57 <ais523> AnMaster: for erlang and prolog, they vaguely resemble each other, the differences are pretty obvious though
21:13:58 <Deewiant> you switched topics at some point :-P
21:14:13 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well O'Caml descend from ML
21:14:14 <oerjan> O'Caml is an ML.
21:14:21 <oerjan> but not SML
21:14:29 <AnMaster> ais523, well yes
21:15:08 <oerjan> ML is not indentation sensitive like haskell
21:15:21 <ais523> haskell is not indentation-sensitive if you don't want it to be
21:15:44 <AnMaster> haskell care about indention!?
21:15:49 <oerjan> yep
21:15:50 <AnMaster> urgh if it does
21:15:54 <Deewiant> if you want it to
21:15:59 <AnMaster> I thought only python did that
21:16:06 <Deewiant> unlike with Python, though, I've never had any problems with Haskell's indentation
21:16:16 <oerjan> haskell was first, i think (but not _the_ first)
21:16:17 <Deewiant> s/problems/issues/
21:16:45 <AnMaster> anyway yes I like indention, but not everyone want to indent the same way
21:16:56 <Deewiant> so use braces and semicolons
21:17:01 <AnMaster> just look at how many indention styles there are for C!
21:17:07 <oerjan> haskell only is indentation sensitive in a few constructs
21:17:14 <Deewiant> and in any case, it's fairly open about it
21:17:20 <AnMaster> must be painful to parse based on indention
21:17:27 <oerjan> the rest you can indent as you want
21:17:31 <ais523> AnMaster: Haskell indentation looks better than Python indentation, and if you put { and } in it ignores the indentation
21:17:37 <AnMaster> ah ok
21:17:40 <Deewiant> AnMaster: the indentation sensitiveness is mostly stuff like "the contents of a for loop must be indented deeper than the for loop"
21:17:52 <oerjan> AnMaster: yeah haskell indentation is painful to parse, especially because of its more flexible rules than python
21:17:56 <Deewiant> i.e. not "4 spaces or a tab or you die"
21:17:58 <ais523> Deewiant: that's in Python, in Haskell you have to line the arguments up with the second word of the loop
21:17:59 <AnMaster> ais523, someone should implement { } in python :D
21:18:07 <ais523> AnMaster: someone did I think
21:18:17 <ais523> there are modules for both Python and Perl to use the other's indentation/block syntax
21:18:19 <AnMaster> ais523, well as a filter and joke iirc
21:18:21 <oerjan> (for a compiler)
21:18:31 <AnMaster> hm
21:18:32 <Deewiant> ais523: oh, you do? I always do it in all languages anyway, never noticed it was necessary :-)
21:18:40 <AnMaster> ais523, you mean line noise for python?
21:18:41 <AnMaster> :D
21:18:59 <ais523> AnMaster: that's the regex syntax which is almost the same in Python as in Perl
21:19:04 <ais523> block syntax in Perl is much like in C
21:19:14 <Deewiant> with some differences
21:19:16 <AnMaster> ais523, and no not just regex in perl
21:19:26 <AnMaster> ais523, I can read perl regex just fine, I even like PCRE
21:19:38 <AnMaster> it is stuff like qw/foo/ that put me off
21:19:40 <AnMaster> or whatever it was
21:19:55 <ais523> but qw is to make programs more readable!
21:19:55 <AnMaster> and the "you can do it in n+1 ways for any given n"
21:20:10 <ais523> qw/foo bar baz quux/ is equivalent to ("foo", "bar", "baz", "quux")
21:20:14 <ais523> useful if you have a long array
21:20:15 <Deewiant> you can do anything in n+1 ways anyway, but only any m <= n will be smart ways
21:20:22 <AnMaster> ais523, sure probably it makes some special case more readable, but a "heavy" syntax is harder to learn
21:20:34 <AnMaster> steep learning curve
21:20:35 <ais523> well you only have to learn a bit at a time when writing Perl
21:20:39 <ais523> so shallow learning curve
21:20:47 <ais523> steep learning curve if you're trying to /read/ it, though
21:20:51 <AnMaster> and perl is ugly
21:21:01 <AnMaster> not as ugly as php, I admit php is worse
21:21:03 <AnMaster> but close
21:21:30 <AnMaster> I can't think of any non-esoteric language that is uglier than php
21:21:46 <AnMaster> well there probably is some I don't know
21:21:51 <AnMaster> COBOL I guess
21:21:54 <Deewiant> COBOL? :-)
21:21:56 <Deewiant> heh
21:22:04 <olsner> mumps perhaps
21:22:06 <ais523> ADD ONE TO COBOL GIVING COBOL
21:22:08 <olsner> or bancstar
21:22:09 <AnMaster> Deewiant, but I don't know COBOL enough to know what it looks like
21:22:14 <ais523> AnMaster: like that
21:22:27 <AnMaster> 10 OK
21:22:32 <Deewiant> AnMaster: any guesses as to what that does?
21:22:34 <ais523> you even had to spell out all the arithmetic operations
21:22:36 <AnMaster> 20 THIS OLD BASIC IS PROBABLY WORSE
21:22:40 <AnMaster> 30 GOTO 10
21:22:44 <Deewiant> AnMaster: I DOUBT IT
21:22:47 <AnMaster> hm
21:22:49 <AnMaster> no
21:22:53 <Deewiant> seriously, COBOL is worse. :-P
21:22:54 <AnMaster> php is worse than that
21:23:01 <AnMaster> well ok
21:23:13 <ais523> AnMaster: imagine assembly language, but written out in English
21:23:14 <AnMaster> <ais523> ADD ONE TO COBOL GIVING COBOL <-- COBOL++?
21:23:19 <Deewiant> yep
21:23:19 <ais523> that's what COBOL's like for arithmetic
21:23:22 <oerjan> AnMaster: wait that line 10 is legal?
21:23:28 <ais523> AnMaster: yes, COBOL++
21:23:30 <AnMaster> oerjan, no probably not
21:23:36 <oerjan> i mean 20
21:23:38 <AnMaster> oerjan, I never coded in basic
21:23:55 * oerjan started with basic
21:23:59 <ais523> luckily COBOL is somewhat good for database processing and has useful commands for that, or it would never be used at all
21:24:00 <AnMaster> I began with (gulp) AppleScript
21:24:07 <AnMaster> left it for Pascal, then later C
21:24:09 <ais523> and I started with Pascal and with BASIC
21:24:52 <ais523> then after a while I learnt 6502 asm
21:24:53 <AnMaster> well AppleScript isn't *ugly*, with AppleScript the issue is something else.... maybe the way it try to act like English with bad gramar?
21:24:55 <ais523> probably not typical
21:24:55 <AnMaster> grammar*
21:25:15 <ais523> also I learnt PAL, a scripting language for a database engine nobody ever uses nowadays I think
21:25:23 <ais523> I got quite good at it though despite it being so obscure
21:25:35 <AnMaster> tell application "Finder", end tell <-- shudder, that is about all I remember
21:25:44 <ais523> then VBA, which is annoying and stupid but it was pretty easy to get hold of interpreters
21:25:56 <ais523> also I learnt C++ some time around this, and C somewhat later
21:26:05 <AnMaster> C++ before C?
21:26:06 <AnMaster> weird
21:26:17 <AnMaster> I mean C is easier to learn than C++ IMO
21:26:24 <ais523> AnMaster: well I came across C++ first
21:26:30 <ais523> unfortunately this was pre-standardisation C++
21:26:35 <Deewiant> most people learn "C/C++"
21:26:45 <AnMaster> Deewiant, they are very very different languages
21:26:50 <AnMaster> sure they share some parts
21:26:52 * oerjan learnt LPC before C
21:26:53 <Deewiant> you think I don't know?
21:26:55 <ais523> so I'm in a similar sort of situation to someone who knows only K&R C and doesn't really understand prototypes
21:27:21 <ais523> I keep on forgetting about things like namespaces, and have to look up all the keywords and standard library names because they're different
21:27:32 <AnMaster> but if you take a random non-trivial C program, say 4000+ LOC then chances are it won't compile as a C++ program
21:27:53 <Deewiant> of course not, mostly because of the idiocy with void* in C++
21:27:54 <AnMaster> oerjan, LPC?
21:27:58 <ais523> AnMaster: yep, but if you replace all the calls to malloc it's a lot more likely to
21:28:07 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well that and int template;
21:28:15 <Deewiant> AnMaster: which is not that likely
21:28:16 <ais523> maybe sort out constness of string literals but good C programming style shouldn't have that problem
21:28:17 <AnMaster> and such
21:28:22 <oerjan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LPC_(programming_language)
21:28:35 <ais523> there are other C features that are hard to translate to C++ but they tend not to be used very much
21:28:47 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well certainly I saw a member of a struct called template in a plugin ABI recently
21:28:47 <oerjan> when i was MUDing
21:28:50 <AnMaster> on a project I work on
21:29:24 <AnMaster> crossfire, so codebase got a long history, since 1993 or so
21:29:52 <AnMaster> const char* to char* and what not *shudder*
21:30:01 <ais523> AnMaster: a trivial #define will fix use of C++ keywods
21:30:06 <ais523> s/s$/rs/
21:30:13 <ais523> wait... that's still typoed
21:30:19 <AnMaster> ais523, I think two files compile as C++ on that project
21:30:19 <ais523> s/drs$/rds/
21:30:24 <AnMaster> one of them is generated by flex
21:30:29 <AnMaster> that says something doesn't it?
21:30:38 <AnMaster> there are quite a lot of files
21:30:55 <ais523> AnMaster: C files are unlikely to coincidentally compile as C++
21:30:57 <ais523> mostly due to malloc
21:31:06 <AnMaster> ais523, and even after malloc is fixed I mean
21:32:38 <AnMaster> ais523, and certainly most parts doesn't use malloc in it, the code prefer sprintf + char [MAXBUF]; on the stack (though I fixed the remaining sprintf to snprintf some months ago)
21:32:49 <pikhq> One needs to make a point of making something valid C and C++...
21:32:57 <pikhq> Though it's not too *hard* if you make a point of it.
21:33:09 <ais523> pikhq: or too sensible really, in most cases
21:33:11 <AnMaster> pikhq, no I make a point of making it not compile as C++
21:33:14 <pikhq> ais523: Granted.
21:33:15 <ais523> probably it's best to make malloc and free macros
21:33:19 <AnMaster> pikhq, :D
21:33:21 <ais523> if you're doing that sort of thing
21:33:30 <pikhq> There's no point in it, of course, but it's not difficult. ;p
21:34:26 <AnMaster> pikhq, I prefer to use C99 specific features like flexible array members to make it harder to port to C++ :)
21:34:35 <AnMaster> since I really think C++ is doing it the wrong way
21:34:46 <pikhq> C99 is definitely nice to code in.
21:34:56 <ais523> I admit to rather liking C++
21:34:57 <ais523> sorry
21:34:58 <AnMaster> objc and smalltalk do seem to have a much saner OOP model than C++
21:35:02 <pikhq> I'm not a huge fan of C++, myself.
21:35:18 <AnMaster> though most time OOP really just confuse isssues
21:35:20 <AnMaster> issues*
21:35:22 <ais523> and I actually like its OOP model, but maybe that's because I don't care about insanity and I've been forced to learn Java
21:35:27 <pikhq> And I still want to beat Bjarne with a cluebat for overloading << and >> for I/O.
21:35:41 <AnMaster> pikhq, yes that is even worse
21:35:43 <pikhq> Those are bitshift operators, dammit!
21:35:50 <ais523> not in that context
21:35:57 <ais523> they just look like bitshift operators to a C programmer
21:35:57 <AnMaster> operator overloading do have uses, but using it for IO.... no
21:36:17 <pikhq> Just because you can define operator+ to be the multiplication operator doesn't make it the multiplication operator.
21:36:23 <ais523> that's not operator overloading, that's finding a spare unused operator in your cupboard and deciding to use it for something else because it can handle the additional workload
21:36:24 <pikhq> It makes it proof that the coder is a cock.
21:36:25 <AnMaster> say if you implement a class doing decimal numbers as fractions of two BIGNUM
21:36:37 <AnMaster> then overloading +-*/ would be sane
21:36:45 <AnMaster> and so on
21:36:51 <Deewiant> ais523: cout << 1 << 4, oops, didn't print 16
21:37:00 <AnMaster> Deewiant++++
21:37:06 <pikhq> Deewiant++
21:37:08 <ais523> Deewiant: it does I think, << is left-associative
21:37:23 <ais523> (cout << 1) << 4 definitely prints 16
21:37:26 <pikhq> Now, if you really *want* an operator to be used for output, define *another one*.
21:37:26 <AnMaster> ais523, well then that would make it even more confusing
21:37:30 <oerjan> ERROR: Lambdabot existence failure
21:37:30 <Deewiant> ais523: just tested it, doesn't
21:37:32 <ais523> s/16/1 4/
21:37:35 <Deewiant> it prints 14
21:37:37 <AnMaster> <ais523> (cout << 1) << 4 definitely prints 16 <-- err=
21:37:39 <AnMaster> what?
21:37:42 <ais523> AnMaster: typo, sorry
21:37:55 <Deewiant> not 1 4 either, specifically 14 :-)
21:37:57 <AnMaster> that must be count (1 << 4)
21:37:59 <ais523> Deewiant: wait, I've been saying the opposite of what I mean
21:38:07 <ais523> cout << 1 << 4 prints 14 as expected
21:38:11 <ais523> is what I meant to say
21:38:14 <AnMaster> ais523, that is not expected
21:38:30 <Deewiant> it is expected but it's an easy mistake to make which is why << was a bad idea
21:38:33 <AnMaster> it should print 16
21:38:36 <ais523> yes it is, why would you expect << to associate the other way for no good reason?
21:38:59 <AnMaster> well, I expect it to work sanely
21:38:59 <Deewiant> the right operator to overload is function call
21:39:11 <Deewiant> cout(1 << 4)(1)(4) // 1614
21:39:15 <AnMaster> Deewiant, you mean... cout.print()?
21:39:20 <Deewiant> no, I mean that
21:39:24 <AnMaster> huh
21:39:27 <AnMaster> overload function call?
21:39:32 <AnMaster> that doesn't sound sane at all
21:39:33 <AnMaster> really
21:39:33 <Deewiant> of course you can have an alias called print if you like
21:39:37 <ais523> why would, for instance, cout << "a" << 1 << 4 <<"b" parse as (((cout << "a") << (1 << 4)) << "b") rather than ((((cout << "a") << 1) << 4) << "b")
21:39:47 <pikhq> I'd prefer a different operator for the purpose.
21:39:50 <AnMaster> err
21:40:01 <AnMaster> can you overload function call in C++?
21:40:05 <AnMaster> please please say no
21:40:06 <pikhq> ais523: Such things are a natural side effect of there being two definitions for the same operator.
21:40:06 <Deewiant> yes, as well as in D.
21:40:10 <AnMaster> oh god
21:40:17 <Deewiant> AnMaster: what's wrong with that?
21:40:21 <ais523> ah, that's a change from the C++ I've learnt, I think
21:40:21 <AnMaster> worse than my worst fears
21:40:26 <pikhq> ... operator()?
21:40:29 <Deewiant> yeah, that
21:40:35 <pikhq> *shudder*
21:40:41 <AnMaster> ugh
21:40:43 <olsner> AnMaster: sure you can :)
21:40:44 <ais523> AnMaster: not really a problem, though, because an object is not a function nor vice versa
21:40:46 <Deewiant> what's your problem with operator() :-P
21:40:48 <pikhq> I'd understand it if C++ were defined similarly to Plof...
21:41:02 <pikhq> Namely, every operator is soley defined via overloading.
21:41:06 <ais523> besides, you have to love compile-time turing-completeness
21:41:13 <Deewiant> I don't in C++
21:41:18 <Deewiant> because it's so limited
21:41:21 <Deewiant> it's hard to find use for it
21:41:28 <ais523> so?
21:41:37 <Deewiant> so it's just pointless
21:41:47 <olsner> anything turing-complete can be abused!
21:41:49 <ais523> Deewiant: we're in #esoteric at the moment...
21:41:52 <AnMaster> <ais523> besides, you have to love compile-time turing-completeness <-- NO
21:41:52 <olsner> so also c++ templates
21:41:55 <AnMaster> I don't like that
21:41:59 <Deewiant> ais523: yes, but C++ isn't meant to be esoteric :-)
21:42:16 <AnMaster> and C++ templates are icky
21:42:17 <ais523> Deewiant: all languages should be capable of being esoteric, or they're arbitrarily limiting what they're useful for
21:42:27 <ais523> AnMaster: /way/ better than Java templates
21:42:30 <Deewiant> AnMaster: read http://www.paulgraham.com/avg.html if you haven't
21:42:30 <AnMaster> I mean, generic classes fine, they exist in C# for exampl
21:42:39 <AnMaster> List<int>
21:42:39 <pikhq> "C++ prohibits goto from crossing an initialisation."
21:42:41 <AnMaster> sure
21:42:42 <AnMaster> fine
21:42:43 <AnMaster> but
21:42:46 <pikhq> Um, what?
21:42:48 <AnMaster> Factorial<4>
21:42:50 <AnMaster> no thanks
21:42:50 <Deewiant> ais523: well, C++ is easily esoteric even without templates :-)
21:42:55 <Deewiant> AnMaster: and why not?
21:42:58 <pikhq> You mean goto foo;int i = 0;foo: isn't valid C++?
21:43:01 <pikhq> That's borken.
21:43:06 <ais523> pikhq: no, imagine if int is an object
21:43:10 <ais523> do you run its constructor?
21:43:12 <ais523> if so, when
21:43:12 <AnMaster> pikhq, it isn't?
21:43:28 <olsner> I think it doesn't give an error, only undefined behaviour or something like that since you're jumping past the initialization of i
21:43:50 <pikhq> olsner: Compilers are required to complain about that.
21:45:37 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | Nope..
21:45:44 <Deewiant> !!
21:45:49 <Deewiant> optbot!
21:45:49 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | http://www.codu.org/cgi-bin/hg/hgwebdir.cgi/plof/file/512a473fb11b/core/pul/collection.plof // this has a few psl{} bits, but, err, ignore those :P.
21:45:51 <Deewiant> optbot!
21:45:52 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | but i can't remember the differences image, so.
21:45:59 <Deewiant> optbot!
21:46:00 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | well, there's an accent on the u for starters.
21:46:01 <olsner> are you sure? I'm pretty sure MSVC doesn't... and since warning about it relies on the ability of the specific compiler to analyze control flow, different compilers give warnings in different cases
21:46:03 <Deewiant> optbot!
21:46:04 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | integers.
21:46:27 <Deewiant> olsner: MSVC never claimed to be standards compliant ;-)
21:46:32 <oerjan> What's it to yo
21:46:41 <ais523> Deewiant: the vast majority of languages are esoteric
21:47:06 <Deewiant> ais523: what do you mean?
21:47:22 <ais523> I mean that they can be used for esoteric purposes
21:47:27 <ais523> like the IOCCC, for instance
21:47:36 <ais523> C isn't an esolang, but IOCCC programs are esolang programs
21:47:49 <Deewiant> well, I wouldn't call a language esoteric for that reason
21:47:50 <ais523> one thing that annoys me about Python is that it tries to arbitrarily restrict this tendency
21:47:56 <Deewiant> I'd call it turing-complete ;-)
21:47:58 <ais523> Deewiant: well, I suppose so
21:48:27 <ais523> (incidentally, one of my friends, a big Python fan, was trying to persuade me that Python wasn't Turing-complete because there was only one way to do everything)
21:48:40 <Deewiant> heh, what became of that
21:48:49 <ais523> (they were wrong, of course, I've seen an implementation of ?: in Python of course and it looked like Perl but worse)
21:48:52 <AnMaster> that makes no xense
21:49:01 <AnMaster> sense*
21:49:04 <ais523> sorry
21:49:04 <AnMaster> blergh
21:49:08 <AnMaster> I mean
21:49:17 <AnMaster> that it wouldn't be turing complete makes no sense
21:49:23 <ais523> well, yes, obviously
21:49:41 <AnMaster> it got loops, it have memory, even if it have the sizeof() problem it still got file IO
21:49:49 <ais523> I didn't quite reach the point of pointing out that it's entirely possible to write a Perl interp in Python and write the Perl program you feed it as input in more than one way
21:49:50 <AnMaster> and all the other basic stuff
21:50:40 <AnMaster> not that I see why anyone would want to write a perl implementation in python
21:50:50 <AnMaster> well maybe that would mean they would get perl6 done faster...
21:50:51 <AnMaster> hehe
21:50:53 <ais523> but really, I get annoyed when people say there should only be one way to do an if, for instance
21:50:54 <Deewiant> AnMaster: BTW, I'll try to update the mycology results table this weekend so if there's a release pending you should probably do it
21:51:11 <AnMaster> Deewiant, too late tonight, will do it tomorrow
21:51:17 <AnMaster> as I'm going to sleep in 10 minutes
21:51:19 <AnMaster> or so
21:51:25 <Deewiant> as am I
21:51:26 <ais523> OK, maybe Perl is a bit excessive (I can think of 5 ways to do an if offhand), but it's nice to have a choice
21:51:31 <ais523> so you can pick one that's easy to write
21:51:35 <AnMaster> Deewiant, so lets see when I wake up tomorrow
21:51:35 <ais523> in your situatio
21:51:37 <ais523> s/$/n/
21:51:40 <AnMaster> may be late
21:51:52 <Deewiant> AnMaster: no rush, it takes a long time to do it
21:51:53 <AnMaster> since I read the last Terry Pratchett last night
21:51:57 <AnMaster> until 6 in the morning
21:52:05 <AnMaster> so my sleep pattern is broken
21:52:12 <AnMaster> "Nation", very good book
21:52:14 <AnMaster> however
21:52:24 <AnMaster> very very unlike Pratchett's normal writing style
21:52:29 <AnMaster> totally different
21:52:40 <AnMaster> (don't know if there are any other fans of his books here)
21:54:59 <ais523> I've read most of the ones I've got hold of, some are very good and some are just mediocre
21:55:14 <AnMaster> ais523, well this one isn't a Discworld one
21:55:32 <AnMaster> and yes some of the early ones are not as good
21:55:32 <ais523> interesting
21:56:02 <ais523> btw Good Omens is excellent
21:56:36 <AnMaster> ais523, well would you say that the jokes and humor is an important part of Good Omens?
21:56:41 <AnMaster> I would
21:56:41 <ais523> yes, I would
21:56:54 <AnMaster> ais523, and same for most of Pratchett's other books
21:56:57 <AnMaster> but not Nation
21:57:04 <ais523> ah, ok, so pretty different, then
21:57:09 <AnMaster> it got a few jokes, but really it is more about telling the story
21:57:57 <AnMaster> still I'd say it was extremely good, couldn't put the book down
22:00:11 <AnMaster> night all
22:00:18 <ais523> night
22:03:02 <tusho> bakkk
22:04:11 <oerjan> forrrt
22:05:03 <tusho> there is a guy in #defocus right now
22:05:16 <tusho> saying that google is run by the government and yelling about aspartame and flouride and such
22:05:18 <ais523> tusho: playing RPGs with asiekerka?
22:05:20 <tusho> and asking us for good news sources
22:05:32 <oerjan> Poe's law!
22:05:34 <ais523> tusho: refer them to the Onion, or possibly UnNews
22:05:37 <tusho> ais523: already done
22:05:40 <tusho> he complained
22:05:47 <tusho> then someone pointed him to infowars.com
22:05:50 <tusho> which he claimed he was above
22:05:52 <tusho> and i did lol.
22:05:53 <ais523> hmm... wikileaks?
22:06:00 <tusho> heh
22:06:17 <tusho> <ThePaintedMan> MacGyverNL, yeah, alex jones is an agent
22:06:17 <tusho> wow
22:06:19 <tusho> that's a metaconspiracy
22:06:26 <tusho> a 911 conspiracy theorist ... is a government agent
22:06:59 <oerjan> it's a reasonable idea - drown out the _real_ conspiracy theories with fake ones
22:07:20 <ais523> oerjan: is that a conspiracy theory conspiracy theory?
22:07:26 <oerjan> probably
22:07:37 <pikhq> It's a conspiracy metatheory.
22:07:41 <pikhq> Nicely done.
22:07:42 <tusho> <ThePaintedMan> tusho, you are generalizing the only person you ever knew existed?
22:07:44 <tusho> w h a t
22:07:49 <tusho> <ThePaintedMan> anyway, alex jones is a shill william cooper was closer to telling the truth
22:07:50 <tusho> tee hee hee
22:08:11 <tusho> ais523: he's in #nethack
22:08:12 <tusho> believe it or not
22:08:16 <ais523> tusho: which nick are you complaining about? ThePaintedMan?
22:08:24 <tusho> yes
22:08:26 <ais523> yes, a #nethack regular, who seems quite sane over there
22:08:45 <tusho> ais523: maybe he's trolling us
22:08:52 <ais523> people can act so differently on different channels...
22:09:04 <tusho> ais523: although nethack players seem quite nice in general
22:09:06 <tusho> so i don't know why he would
22:09:22 <ais523> #nethack's pretty polite and helpful
22:10:07 <ais523> <fungot> ais523: s/ top/ to/ get a flight simulator
22:10:13 <tusho> i am pretty sure that he is a troll now
22:10:29 <ais523> my brain has trouble parsing that
22:10:39 <ais523> it reads the to as both inside and outside the s///
22:10:53 <tusho> <tenex> it would be funny if he wasn't using foul language
22:10:58 <tusho> BUT NOW IT JUST OFFENDS MY SENSIBILITIES :( :( :(
22:13:14 <tusho> <tusho> ThePaintedMan: alex jones created fluoride to poison people's minds so that they wouldn't know he's a government shill
22:13:15 <tusho> It's true.
22:15:40 <oerjan> Dr Strangelove ripoff?
22:15:55 <tusho> No, I made that up all by my lonesome.
22:16:13 <oerjan> oh i misread
22:16:24 <oerjan> i thought he was the one saying that
22:17:09 <oerjan> anyway, since i've just discovered Poe's Law i would like to claim that, again
22:25:45 <tusho> some of the gems from his early minutes:
22:25:45 <tusho> <ThePaintedMan> i dont even use a microwave...molecular friction destroys protein changse
22:26:21 <tusho> <ThePaintedMan> google is run by the us government
22:27:56 <tusho> gahahahha
22:27:59 <tusho> now he's ranting about 9/11
22:28:02 <tusho> and how global warming is false
22:29:12 <tusho> hahaha
22:29:14 <tusho> he's exploding
22:29:19 <tusho> and spouting pseudo-science
22:31:38 <tusho> <ThePaintedMan> MacGyverNL, if you havent figured it out in 7 years how could i prove anything
22:32:23 <tusho> <ThePaintedMan> there is peer reviewed phd papers out about this[citation needed]
22:34:43 <ais523> tusho: who added the {{fact}} tag?
22:34:48 <tusho> ais523: me
22:35:24 <tusho> <ThePaintedMan> i will i have to go to thea irport
22:35:27 <tusho> after people asked for evidence
22:39:22 -!- LinuS has quit ("Puzzi. S์, parlo proprio con te. Puzzi.").
22:42:17 <tusho> ais523: any esoteric ideas yet? :P
22:43:23 <ais523> tusho: there was the rather crazy idea I saw suggested of doing massively parallel processing by sending malformed HTTP packets to a lot of computers and seeing which ones bounced and which ones got lost
22:43:41 <ais523> however I don't think HTTP is Turing-complete or anywhere near it, so I doubt it's usable for computation
22:43:43 <tusho> heh
22:43:50 <ais523> at least not for computations you couldn't just do yourself more easily
22:44:50 <tusho> ais523: can you remember that netcc idea I came up with?
22:44:54 <tusho> a p2p compiler network
22:45:00 <tusho> the wan to distcc's LAN
22:45:04 <ais523> not really, apart from the name
22:45:30 <ais523> although what might be interesting: a massively distributed testsuite
22:45:31 <tusho> it'd have to compile everything twice, i think
22:45:35 <tusho> to verify that somebody isn't faking it
22:45:45 <ais523> where you get to try out your program on all sorts of different configurations
22:45:56 <ais523> it could easily beat most other tests at testing portability on obscure systems
22:46:05 <tusho> ais523: debian does something like that
22:46:06 <tusho> cpan too
22:46:17 <tusho> debian just for builds
22:46:20 <ais523> tusho: I know, but I was thinking of a much broader scale than Debian
22:46:20 <tusho> but i think cpan runs the tests
22:46:27 <ais523> because they restrict themselves to sane implementations
22:46:35 <tusho> presumably in a sandbox
22:46:37 <ais523> oh, and the Hurd, and ia64
22:46:45 <ais523> and it's in a chroot, in a fakeroot, I think
22:46:58 <tusho> ais523: duke nukem forever will run on hurd, i believe
22:47:03 <tusho> and ONLY hurd
22:47:15 <tusho> it'll be the hurd's kiler app
22:47:16 <tusho> *killer
22:47:19 <tusho> oh wait
22:47:21 <tusho> I mean GNU/Hurd
22:47:47 <ais523> tusho: nah, Busybox/Hurd or something else that ignores the GNU utilities would be funnier
22:48:04 <ais523> or even better, Explorer/Hurd
22:48:30 <tusho> Explorer/Hurd :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
22:49:05 <tusho> ais523: the installation process will have an Ogg Theora video of Stephen Fry next to it walking you through it
22:49:15 <tusho> licensed under by-nc-nd
22:49:22 <ais523> nah, something silly like Ogg/PNG
22:49:28 <ais523> which is theoretically possible but pointless
22:49:56 <tusho> ais523: so which do you think will be first
22:49:57 <tusho> hurd or dnf
22:50:19 <ais523> tusho: hard to say, when DNF comes out Hurd won't be usable but the FSF will claim it is
22:50:27 <ais523> so there'll be a massive precedence argument
22:50:34 <ais523> and in the end the matter will just be left unsettled
22:50:41 <tusho> ais523: uh, you mean ... the current situation?
22:50:41 <tusho> :P
22:50:50 <tusho> You can use the Hurd today! As long as you don't want to do anything!
22:51:02 <ais523> yep, and it'll still be like that when DNF is released
22:51:14 <tusho> personally I'm looking forward to DNF a lot more than Hurd
22:51:25 <pikhq> tusho: The FSF doesn't pretend that the Hurd is useful.
22:51:26 <tusho> although Hurd might just be as funny, though not intentionally
22:51:29 <tusho> pikhq: O RLY?
22:51:31 <tusho> ais523: get out that quote
22:51:35 <tusho> quick
22:51:35 <pikhq> Even RMS doesn't claim that the Hurd is useful...
22:51:51 <ais523> tusho: it would take a while to find
22:51:53 <ais523> but I'll try
22:52:01 <pikhq> Okay, fine, so ams thinks the Hurd is useful...
22:52:08 <pikhq> But his idea of useful is 'runs Emacs'.
22:52:41 <ais523> it exists
22:52:41 <ais523> The Hurd is real software that works Right Now. It is not a research project or a proposal. You don't have to wait at all before you can start using and developing it
22:52:56 <ais523> this is in a section entitled "Advantages of the Hurd"
22:53:29 <pikhq> Whoever wrote that page was on crack.
22:53:37 <pikhq> The Hurd *works*, sure...
22:53:51 <oerjan> ams?
22:53:52 <tusho> i really don't WANT the hurd to work, it seems terribly deisgned
22:53:57 <tusho> what ever happened to worse is better
22:54:02 <pikhq> In the same sense that somebody implementing an OS entirely in Visual Basic may have something working. :p
22:54:13 <pikhq> oerjan: He's the current GNU system maintainer.
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22:54:20 <tusho> gnu system maintainer lol
22:54:30 <tusho> you mean ... he manages lots of software packages
22:54:31 <oerjan> yes, but what is his name?
22:54:32 <pikhq> Really, most of what he does is be an ass.
22:54:33 -!- Snrrrub has left (?).
22:54:47 <tusho> who is that guy who led/leads glibc?
22:54:50 <pikhq> Alfred M. Szmidt.
22:54:52 <tusho> i like him, he didn't like rms a lot
22:54:59 <tusho> and seemed to be generally reasonable
22:55:08 <oerjan> ok
22:55:27 <tusho> pikhq: moar like Alfred M. Stallman
22:55:28 <tusho> amirite
22:56:11 <lament> more like Adolf M. Stallman
22:56:24 <tusho> http://www.update.uu.se/~ams/public_html/public_html/public_html/public_html/public_html/public_html/
22:56:31 <tusho> expert home directory exposure via the web
22:56:50 <tusho> http://www.update.uu.se/~ams/home/ what the fuck :D
22:56:52 <ais523> what's with all the nested public_htmls?
22:57:12 <ais523> ah, symlink loop, must be
22:57:22 <tusho> ais523: yes
22:57:26 <tusho> ln -s public_html ~
22:57:30 <tusho> and, err, ln -s home ~ ?
22:57:39 <tusho> err
22:57:42 <tusho> wrong way around for the ln
22:57:43 <tusho> whatever
22:58:07 <pikhq> tusho: Good description.
22:58:22 <pikhq> Except that even RMS admits ams is an ass.
22:58:33 <tusho> pikhq: who is the glibc maintainer guy
22:58:34 <tusho> or ex-maintainer
22:58:36 <pikhq> Dunno.
22:58:48 <ais523> tusho: ln works like cp, it's a lot easier to remember how to write it once you realise that
22:58:54 <pikhq> But he's still the maintainer; know the guy you're talking about, at least.
22:58:59 <tusho> ah, ulrich drepper
22:59:06 <tusho> he is cool, i think
23:01:27 <CO2Games> Hmm
23:02:14 <tusho> hmm
23:02:17 <tusho> +b on irc is weird
23:02:20 <tusho> it lets you read but not talk
23:02:21 <tusho> unless you part
23:02:24 <tusho> in which case you can't do either
23:02:33 <tusho> why not force a kick, or allow entry?
23:02:36 <ais523> you can still logread...
23:02:40 <tusho> ais523: not my point
23:03:02 <ais523> and kicks and bans being separate makes sense from an implementation point of view
23:03:02 <CO2Games> I'm thinking of adding function support for drainfuck
23:03:07 <ais523> although not a user point of view
23:03:12 <tusho> ais523: yes, so why not let you rejoin after a ban
23:03:14 <tusho> but still not talk?
23:03:19 <CO2Games> tusho: +b is +ban
23:03:19 <tusho> like the actual behaviour you get after setting a ban
23:03:28 <tusho> CO2Games: please read before commenting
23:03:41 <ais523> tusho: arguably there should be three things involved: kick, silence, and prevent_join
23:03:44 <CO2Games> It's called a kickban
23:03:50 <tusho> CO2Games: i am not an idiot
23:03:50 <ais523> the problem is that +b combines two of those
23:03:51 <CO2Games> Also, tusho that function already exists
23:03:54 <ais523> in a nonobvious way
23:03:56 <tusho> I AM NOT AN IDIOT, CO2Games.
23:04:00 <tusho> i already know
23:04:03 <CO2Games> +q
23:04:16 <tusho> CO2Games: did you miss the part where i already knew
23:04:22 <tusho> i'm saying that +b behaves wrongly
23:04:41 <CO2Games> B just forces someone to be unable to rejoin
23:04:49 <CO2Games> Heh now the muting part is stupid
23:04:50 <tusho> CO2Games! stop it!
23:04:56 <tusho> i know!
23:04:57 <oerjan> i think +b probably has communist sympathies
23:05:14 <oerjan> and is secretly plotting to overthrow irc
23:05:29 <CO2Games> communism is awesome!
23:05:40 <CO2Games> Too bad theres no communist countries
23:05:43 <CO2Games> :\
23:05:48 <oerjan> s/communist/stalinist/
23:05:58 <CO2Games> what?
23:06:11 <tusho> communism is verily unawesome
23:06:11 <tusho> :D
23:06:20 <CO2Games> communism is the best
23:06:24 <oerjan> this +b is not one of those kind, gentle communists you are talking about
23:06:34 <tusho> CO2Games: unfortunately not
23:06:39 <CO2Games> Everything is free and everyone is together
23:06:45 <tusho> lol
23:06:50 <CO2Games> Oh it's the best. Why wouldn't anyone want communism?
23:06:55 <CO2Games> I mean seriously
23:07:00 <CO2Games> Everything is free.
23:07:05 <tusho> CO2Games: your tone suggests non-seriousness
23:07:05 <CO2Games> Everyone is happy
23:07:10 <tusho> or at least a massive misunderstanding of communism
23:07:21 <CO2Games> tusho, do you know what communism is?
23:07:32 <tusho> CO2Games: yes, i have a brain
23:07:35 <ais523> CO2Games: where do you think all the free stuff is coming from?
23:07:41 <ais523> you have to work to fulfil the other side of the equation
23:07:44 <CO2Games> Ok, what is communism
23:07:47 <ais523> and in practice it's hard to persuade people to work
23:07:53 <tusho> ais523: noooo, communism is where everyone is happy and they dance in the fields!!!!
23:08:01 <tusho> and nobody does anything, they just chill and be happy!
23:08:18 <CO2Games> People do what they love, and love what they do
23:08:26 <CO2Games> It's like the bushmen, or the amish
23:08:27 <tusho> loooooooooooooool!!!!!!!
23:08:42 <CO2Games> Unfortunately there is no communism
23:08:45 <ais523> have to go now anyway to catch my bus
23:08:46 <ais523> bye
23:08:48 -!- ais523 has quit ("9").
23:09:04 <CO2Games> Rather, we have dictatorships dubbed communist
23:09:18 <CO2Games> true communism has no government but the people themselves
23:09:32 <CO2Games> You need a government to get people to work
23:09:40 <tusho> CO2Games: Information: You are showing yourself to be hilariously uninformed.
23:09:45 <CO2Games> When you have a government, you aren't communist
23:10:00 <oerjan> the thing is, communism requires perfectly unselfish people
23:10:01 <CO2Games> Then what is communism?
23:10:06 <CO2Games> Exactly
23:10:22 <tusho> nobody is perfectly unselfish, communism is based on the flawed principle that there are unselfish people
23:10:23 <CO2Games> That is why we have NOTHING that is truely communist, except maybe the amish
23:10:27 <oerjan> and if you have only perfect people, every government works. even nazism ;)
23:10:28 <tusho> and therefore communism is a piece of shit
23:11:03 <oerjan> tusho: oh i'm sure there are _some_ unselfish people
23:11:04 <CO2Games> Wasn't that previously called facism?
23:11:13 <oerjan> fascism
23:11:31 <AnMaster> <ais523> tusho: arguably there should be three things involved: kick, silence, and prevent_join <-- various ircds support silence in various ways, can't remember freenode syntax
23:11:41 <CO2Games> Heh I always wondered what that meant until someone said "its not pronounced face-ism"
23:11:46 <tusho> yes, wek now AnMaster
23:12:04 <AnMaster> tusho, about http://www.update.uu.se/~ams/ <-- huh, and you even reach his .emacs
23:12:10 <AnMaster> no bashrc
23:12:12 <CO2Games> some use +b ~Q, some use +q, etc.
23:12:14 <AnMaster> no .ssh
23:12:38 <tusho> (when (featurep 'xemacs)
23:12:38 <tusho> (error "Please don't use Lucid Emacs. GNU Emacs is much nicer."))
23:12:40 <tusho> "Lucid Emacs"?
23:12:42 <tusho> LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOL
23:13:01 <AnMaster> tusho, that was an early name for xemacs iirc
23:13:04 <tusho> i know
23:13:04 <AnMaster> though not sure
23:13:06 <tusho> from lucid corporatio
23:13:07 <tusho> n
23:13:08 <CO2Games> What is lucid emacs
23:13:22 <tusho> CO2Games: you use windows and notepad, iirc?
23:13:25 <CO2Games> actually, what is emacs
23:13:29 <tusho> heh
23:13:36 <tusho> AnMaster: http://www.jwz.org/doc/lemacs.html
23:13:50 <CO2Games> And yes, I use notepad for text
23:15:26 <CO2Games> So anyways
23:15:45 <CO2Games> I was thinking of implementing a second stack in my interpreter, the callstack
23:16:50 <CO2Games> with some sort of return function
23:17:00 <CO2Games> And perhaps an interrupt-like system
23:17:06 <oerjan> clearly what we need here is a smoke stack
23:17:25 <CO2Games> I forgot...what is a smoke stack again?
23:18:45 <oerjan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smokestack
23:19:08 <CO2Games> ahh
23:23:02 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
23:23:47 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined.
23:23:50 <AnMaster> tusho, thanks for that link
23:23:52 <AnMaster> interesting
23:23:55 <AnMaster> night really now
23:42:26 <tusho> The airplane almost crashed when Elliott tried to into the president, so had no qualm with MY daughter. a cat. (a juicy cat.) So my uncle , who was really pretty queer, raped himself. We can dance if we want to, But it didn't make a bit of difference, because I raped him back Suddenly, shit was fucked up and pee was fucked down. Several years later, there was nothing left of the world. Or time for that matter. God decided to pull his beard off to reveal that
23:42:30 <tusho> when did that get cut off
23:42:51 <oerjan> "reveal that"
23:43:23 <tusho> he was really Rick Astley. and he would have gotten away with it too, if it wern't for Rob Zombie is indeed a zombie. Hi!
23:43:34 <oerjan> sheesh, have there been any stories that didn't include sex yet?
23:43:57 <tusho> oerjan: yes, the first 4 test ones
23:44:07 <tusho> but apart from that, this is the internetweb
23:44:18 <tusho> hmm, first 5 tests
23:44:28 <tusho> oerjan: #6 has no sex
23:44:41 <tusho> #7 has lots of penises but no sex
23:44:50 <tusho> #8 has anuses but no sex
23:45:22 <tusho> #11 has no sex
23:45:36 <tusho> #13 has butts but no sex
23:45:38 <tusho> the end
23:46:39 -!- Slereah_ has joined.
23:57:09 <tusho> Today, Niklas raped a bird. The bird then raped a Elliott's butt which proceeded to eat fish. be a rapist. and hump feathers. Suddenly, the website for Later that day, a rapist raped himself. Then a bird, who was a rapist, raped Niklas. It was rapelicious. One day, Niklas was not raped he raped a bird and it was still rapelicious. Speaking of rapelicious, I have heard of a rapist beard. 5+5=10 Rape is fun. Yiff!
23:57:28 <Slereah_> ...
23:57:30 <Slereah_> :D
23:57:38 <Slereah_> Auuuugur!
23:57:38 <tusho> best story yet
23:57:42 <Slereah_> What have you done!
23:57:43 <tusho> A RAPIST BEARD
โ†2008-09-11 2008-09-12 2008-09-13โ†’ โ†‘2008 โ†‘all