< 1221696579 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1221696601 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-82-181.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1221698627 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey oklopol < 1221698936 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1221699010 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey psyggie < 1221700419 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1221700573 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1221701037 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1221702038 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1221703554 0 :ihope_!n=Peggy@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1221703872 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1221705108 0 :ihope_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1221709039 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r01jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1221709540 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | it shouldn't be, it's not any different from what's happening now, it just happened earlier. < 1221709795 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"mirth" < 1221710872 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1221714470 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1221716092 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a lambda calculus solver in JavaScript :P < 1221716116 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"solver"? < 1221716151 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, "solver" = terribly irrelevant term X-D < 1221716164 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a lambda calculus interpreter. < 1221716169 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1221716249 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has colorization :P < 1221716352 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like http://worrydream.com/AlligatorEggs/ ? < 1221716564 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. Someone *doesn't* like Gregor Richard's 7th Opus. How dare he? < 1221716571 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, come to Missouri and hunt him down. < 1221716583 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1221716594 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone /does/ like it? X-P < 1221716607 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm quite fond of your opuses. < 1221716618 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Although alligator eggs = awesome, this is a bit more ... quick n' simple :P < 1221716639 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. < 1221716642 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quick but not simple. < 1221716650 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Feel like elaborating? < 1221716708 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't heard GregorR's opi < 1221716722 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: http://codu.org/music.php < 1221716737 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you i'm only saying that so i can use the faulty plural. < 1221716751 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i shall do listen yes today. < 1221716752 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's such an amusing faulty plural :P < 1221716759 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes! that was the point < 1221716810 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: They're decent piano pieces. < 1221716821 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I like them. < 1221716837 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: the plural is "opera" < 1221716840 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as someone not liking them? Guy in my suite *dared* put on something else. How dare he? < 1221716853 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1221716854 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1221716988 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: indeed it is < 1221717003 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait a minute, you already knew? < 1221717009 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's substantially less faulty. < 1221717067 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't see that line about faulty plurals < 1221717147 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1221717165 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure whether i would've remembered opera actively < 1221717169 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it _could_ have been opi < 1221717209 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you're lying < 1221717250 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for all i know there's such a homonym in latin < 1221717255 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(could be) < 1221717271 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-us, -i is 2. declension < 1221717299 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-us, -era is 3. declension < 1221717306 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just going by nucleus and cactus, and knew opus didn't support that < 1221717311 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-us, -us is 4th < 1221717321 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1221717343 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the 3rd one might have other options too, it's complicated < 1221717357 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too much information! < 1221717589 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"-> bus" < 1221717665 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"-> bike" < 1221718084 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no bzr at work, I think both Mercurial and Subversion need support from the server (Subversion at least uses that DAV module), CVS doesn't really do HTTP and I don't really know Monotone, so I think the choice was between darcs and Git. < 1221719063 0 :oklopimp!n=nnscript@sparkgw.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1221719103 0 :oklopimp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the topic is love < 1221719107 0 :oklopimp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1221719115 0 :oklopimp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goddamnit < 1221719118 0 :oklopimp!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate mirc < 1221719122 0 :oklopimp!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oklofok < 1221719922 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok < 1221719923 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love you < 1221719924 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1221719928 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good night :p < 1221719932 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get aim plz < 1221719968 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously. i want to talk to you more but i cant since you're only on irc and my school makes it hard to use irc < 1221719970 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so get aim < 1221719975 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see ya ::hug:: < 1221719976 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client" < 1221720029 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1221722701 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@oklopol.yok.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1221723158 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1221723531 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah, I added them 'j' jump tables, here's fungot's token-to-text part: http://www.cis.hut.fi/htkallas/tokenizer.png < 1221723677 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's @, is it top < 1221723794 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ is the "end program" command, I just added @s to all the "outgoing" code paths from that piece of code. < 1221723807 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: http://www.cis.hut.fi/htkallas/interp.png -- the brainfuck interpreter; it looks even nicer. < 1221723826 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Execution starts from that node where there's a "->" from nowhere. < 1221723956 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1221723964 0 :oklofok!n=nnscript@oklopol.yok.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1221724024 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what week is it? < 1221724029 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, number of week < 1221724031 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oklopol < 1221724059 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, how many weeks elapsed since beginning of current year < 1221724198 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Week 38. < 1221724227 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For 1-based indexing and mondays as first days, although that latter part doesn't really change much in this case. < 1221724309 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can that be googled? :) < 1221724371 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First hit of "current week number" seems to have 38 in it, at least. < 1221724377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, everyone should use Monday as first day < 1221724389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sunday as first doesn't make sense < 1221724405 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On a suitable operating system, "ncal -w" will also tell you the week number. < 1221724417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash: ncal: command not found < 1221724419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1221724432 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "date +%V" more portably. < 1221724470 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ncal is not everywhere; it's not on this SuSE box, but it is on the Ubuntu box over there, in the "bsdmainutils" package. < 1221724508 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why does sunday as first day not make sense? < 1221724544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, whenever you like it or not (I don't) the week is based on religion, basically the bible. < 1221724577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there it says (iirc) that on the seventh day the god rested, since sunday is a non-work day it is clear that should be the seventh day < 1221724578 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have zero idea how that's relevant < 1221724582 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1221724603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Saturday being a non-workday is a far newer invention really < 1221724615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just look back 100 years (or less) < 1221724628 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, the week at a random point in time where christianity was born, was monday-based? < 1221724642 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus others make no sense? < 1221724662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course other make *sense*, but not on the Western culture < 1221724692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1221724727 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, i'm not sure i follow you, but i guess that doesn't matter. < 1221724799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1221724800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1221724998 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, http://www.cis.hut.fi/htkallas/fungotsmall.png makes my poor little program look really rather complicated. < 1221724999 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: or by " basic" :) < 1221725075 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the whole fungot source? < 1221725076 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it is very hard < 1221725122 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION continues to rub it
< 1221725145 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's it. Although there might be bugs in the graph-drawing that make it miss things. < 1221725169 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it a widely used superprogram < 1221725176 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1221725192 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by graph-drawing you mean your graphifying the source? < 1221725207 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Graphviz will probably work correctly. < 1221725222 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1221725291 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does graphviz do something genetic-like, there are small anomalies you could never get with a static approach < 1221725300 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance < 1221725308 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bottom left, just above the small cluster of nodes < 1221725321 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck is that weird corner the one edge does :P < 1221725333 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*one of the edges < 1221725351 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that might be a rounding-thing when it's calculating the edge-splines or whatever it uses for drawing those. < 1221725386 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are other layout algorithms Graphviz has -- I could try the 'fdp' one at least. And I could definitely try a more recent graphviz, this one is ancient. < 1221725419 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wants the vertical lines to be separated with equal distances < 1221725436 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah it's round because of the rounding < 1221725460 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still, it goes to the left beyond necessary too for no apparent reason < 1221725466 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-too < 1221725468 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, a numerical round-off thing when calculating how to curve that mostly-horizontal part of the line. < 1221725494 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know anything how Graphviz actually draws that stuff. < 1221725530 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the curve is correct < 1221725551 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the anomaly is the horizontal line is too long < 1221725565 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1221725578 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder if i'm confusing vertical and horizontal < 1221725583 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1221725585 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt i am < 1221725600 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Horizontal is ---, since that's what the horizon does. < 1221725650 0 :oklofok!n=nnscript@oklopol.yok.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1221725650 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1221725678 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That picture was drawn with a Graphviz from May 2006; I think I'll try the one from Feb 2008 we have on the Ubuntu boxen. < 1221725746 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://users.tkk.fi/htkallas/fungotsmall.png < 1221725746 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: because i forgot to check whether other parents have this slot or not? < 1221725774 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's still a slight bump in the lower-left corner, but it's smaller now. < 1221725877 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, there's the "throw 1d16" part a bit higher up, it's very recognizable from shape. < 1221726051 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole graphing thing might not really be very helpful in understanding the program, but at least the pictures are pretty. < 1221726065 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could keep a printed-out copy of that thing on the wall. < 1221726234 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At 300 dpi, the unscaled version would be about 72 cm wide and 139 cm tall, a reasonable size for a poster. < 1221726279 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah, fungotfdpsmall.png at that users.tkk.fi address is the fdp-layout version. It's... less good. < 1221726280 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: a list of strings? what kind of package system does netbsd have? < 1221726305 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: If I recall correctly, netbsd has that BSDy "ports tree" thing. I don't see how a list of strings is relevant here. < 1221726305 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: good. then my method gives the right definition. < 1221726520 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll try neato with "graph [overlap=false,splines=true]" and hope that poor computer can even process the whole graph then. < 1221726639 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, someone has updated these computers. Even this workstation now has three gigs of memory and a quad-core Q6600 cpu. < 1221727038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh nice < 1221727045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q6600? < 1221727055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what arch? < 1221727085 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's a core2, so I assume x86-64, but the userland and kernel there seem to be 32-bit. < 1221727090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1221727118 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably the local IT people haven't bothered to craft a different image for the 64-bit-able boxen. < 1221727123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q6600 huh, what kind of name is that for an Intel CPU < 1221727135 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what they're named nowadays. < 1221727139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1221727149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it supposed to mean even? < 1221727163 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much. < 1221727184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1221727204 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Ennnn models are dual-core, and Qnnnn ones are quad-core; and Xnnnn is dual-core "extreme", while QXnnnn is quad-core "extreme". I don't remember what was so extreme about the "extreme" models. < 1221727232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more cache would be nice < 1221727454 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this one table I'm not seeing any other difference between Q6700 and QX6700 except that the "extreme" model has an unlocked clock multiplier for the overclocking crowd, and few hundred dollars more price. Both have 2*4M of L2 cache. < 1221727484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wow you could run DOS in just the cache < 1221727485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1221727499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not possible, but still... < 1221727507 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, neato has been running for about 20 minutes now, with no sign of stopping. < 1221727515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbiab < 1221727992 0 :jix!n=jix@paed-gw.schule.bremen.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1221729538 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey! The neato run finished, took only 50 minutes. Probably it has created a: horrible mess. < 1221729560 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh... it created a zero-byte file. < 1221729565 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was not what I wanted. < 1221729720 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: your TKK homepage still links and redirects to befunge.org < 1221729748 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1221729791 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fixed it to point at zem.fi, even though there's really no content there either. < 1221730408 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heheh, the neato layout (with "overlap=ortho,splines=true") is very... organic: http://users.tkk.fi/htkallas/fungotneatosmall.png < 1221730408 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: het2: and those can only be understood after 20 years it's fnord < 1221730441 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I don't think I'll be able to understand that graph after 20 years of fnording either, whatever that means. < 1221730700 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess plain old "dot" is probably the best idea for code-graphs. < 1221730766 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've yet to see a graph which doesn't look better in dot than anything else < 1221730810 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen some small graphs that worked a lot better with neato than with dot. < 1221730853 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1221730871 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, is there some sensible image viewer for looking at these ~10kx10k pixel images without using much memory? < 1221730957 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The dot graph is readable even as a "small" 4264x8182 image, but that's still a bit large for this workstation with only 512 megs of memory. < 1221730996 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1221731022 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think running xli remotely won't help much either, as it creates a XImage which probably will eat up memory here locally at the X server. < 1221731029 0 :oklofok!n=nnscript@oklopol.yok.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1221731140 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | SevenInchBread i think oerjan or someone told you that a few days ago < 1221731447 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r01jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1221731483 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@oklopol.yok.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1221731486 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1221732990 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1221733006 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also a graphviz tweakery program would help. Something that would run dot first, then provide a GUI for dragging nodes around, and finally would ask Graphviz to reroute edges. Currently the initialization part sticks out of the graph like a sore thumb. < 1221733262 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1221733262 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1221733418 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection reset by peer < 1221734362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm I hit another weird issue with erlang: non-printable chars to STDOUT are always output as escaped < 1221734370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't found a solution for it yet < 1221734420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1> io:format("~c~n", [7]). < 1221734420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^G < 1221734420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2> io:format("~c~n", [254]). < 1221734420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\376 < 1221734724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3> io:format("~c~n", [80]). < 1221734724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P < 1221734776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this seems to be a issue with the stdout itself in erlang, not a problem with io:format < 1221735457 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, that's curious: it doesn't happen here with the Erlang version installed on these boxen. < 1221735487 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eshell V5.5.2 (abort with ^G) < 1221735487 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1> io:format("~c~n", [254]). < 1221735487 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :þ < 1221735930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, V5.6.4 here < 1221735953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also what about LC_ALL? < 1221735959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used LANG=C LC_ALL=C < 1221736002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and iso-whatever-it-is not utf8 < 1221736043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1> io:format("~c~n", [254]). < 1221736044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\376 < 1221736054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even with: LANG=sv_SE.UTF-8 LC_ALL=sv_SE.UTF-8 < 1221736111 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was the default LC_ALL=en_US.ISO8859-15 they have there, so [254] is printable. Still, io:format("~c~n", [7]). also produced a bell character, based on the terminal flash. < 1221736113 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Jesus loves you" < 1221736141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well not here < 1221736170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo $ERL_AFLAGS $ERL_ZFLAGS $ERL_FLAGS < 1221736216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ? < 1221736225 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't have any of those variables et. < 1221736232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1221736233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1221736237 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ et/ set/ < 1221736250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they changed it then since 5.5.2 < 1221736264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, which leads to another question. what OTP release is 5.5.2? < 1221736270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R11B? < 1221736285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5.6.4 is R12B-4 at least < 1221736307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 5.x.x is just the erlang runtime system (erts) version < 1221736690 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my "Erlang OTP R11B" is "Erlang (BEAM) emulator version 5.5.5" < 1221736722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well possibly R10B then, that is rather old < 1221736734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and efunge have only been tested with R12B < 1221736740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may or may not work on older < 1221736809 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think 5.5.2 is R11B too, since /usr/local/lib/erlan/bin/start.script says "OTP APN 181 01","R11B". < 1221736840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe a difference patch release of R11B then. like R11B-2 or R11B-5 then < 1221737540 0 :ihope!n=Peggy@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1221737541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1> MyPort = erlang:open_port({fd, 0, 1}, [out, binary]). < 1221737545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#Port<0.97> < 1221737554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2> MyPort ! {self(), {command, <<$a,7,10>>}}. < 1221737555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1221737555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : {<0.30.0>,{command,<<97,7,10>>}} < 1221737557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it works < 1221737559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hackish < 1221737574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably behaviour you can't depend on < 1221737876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah it works with -noshell, thus when running it freestanding < 1221737887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using io:put_chars and io:format < 1221739331 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1221739348 0 :Slereah2!n=x@ANantes-252-1-24-38.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1221739530 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1221739546 0 :Slereah_!n=x@ANantes-252-1-24-38.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1221739913 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1221741866 0 :ais523!n=ais523@sm01-fap04.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1221743013 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1221743018 0 :Slereah2!n=x@ANantes-252-1-24-38.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1221743233 0 :tusho!n=tusho@91.105.85.60 JOIN :#esoteric < 1221743267 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1221743282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi tusho < 1221743457 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://www.pixelbeat.org/programming/gcc/static_assert.html < 1221743466 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you like gcc crazy things < 1221743489 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: static asserts in all C compilers is a solved problem < 1221743504 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you define an array which has size -1 if the statement is false and size 1 if the statement is true < 1221743511 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, true < 1221743512 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still < 1221743515 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a neat way of doing it < 1221743535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: Autoconf uses that method in order to determine size of types when cross-compiling < 1221743553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses binary search on the type size with static asserts to see if the program compiles < 1221743610 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*g* < 1221743640 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works quite effectively, actually, for gcc-bf that would be considerably faster than just measuring the 'correct way' < 1221743646 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because gcc-bf compiles fast and links slowly < 1221743715 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: I've never seen that done with enums before, probably arrays is better < 1221743720 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is the gcc-bf on c.e.o up to date < 1221743722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because a C compiler needn't error on 1/0 < 1221743723 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: no < 1221743730 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: update it :p < 1221743743 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: I need to sort out just what's part of it and what isn't first < 1221743747 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1221743752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that things have got so jumbled now < 1221743767 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure whether to add the gcc and newlib sources as an official part of the project yet < 1221743779 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both need to be patched for it, one of the patches is I think for a genuine bug in gcc < 1221743837 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just one that doesn't affect most modern processors, it's machine-specific, and it's possible it doesn't affect any of the architectures gcc currently targets < 1221743859 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also found the equivalent of assert(FALSE) because the gcc people couldn't be bothered to implement a certain case that never comes up on more standard architectures < 1221743868 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, three of them would use it except that they all special-cased it < 1221743880 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc is such a mess < 1221743887 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know < 1221743899 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still cannot wait for clang... < 1221743903 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like someone with a similar attitude to AnMaster has gone over the code < 1221743910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ? < 1221743912 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and noted all the places where it's doing something incomprehensible < 1221743918 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but isn't sure how to fix it < 1221743924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have any assert(false); < 1221743930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, that was someone else < 1221743932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I certainly have assert() to help catching bugs < 1221743933 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more than one person worked on gcc < 1221743937 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Do they take things absolutely literally like AnMaster? :) < 1221743944 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but some of comments there reminded me of you < 1221743950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/of/of the/ < 1221743973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh like? < 1221743978 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, AnMaster's coding style is mostly fine apart from the micro-optimization for something like gcc or ruby or python or any actual 'real' thing < 1221743984 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: let me try to find one < 1221743991 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for esoteric programming language interps the way he critiques all our code because it doesn't live up to those standards is annoying < 1221743993 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the problem i have < 1221743994 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing else < 1221744005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, nice to know :) < 1221744026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes I do impose certain minimal coding standards on myself < 1221744044 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :minimal :D < 1221744050 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: sure, that's fine, not arguing with that < 1221744057 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't like how you impose them on us :p < 1221744088 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot! < 1221744089 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | Ello. < 1221744092 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1221744097 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot! < 1221744098 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | But if it can hosts the Andrei Machine 9000, I'll give it a look. < 1221744102 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot! < 1221744102 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | :-) < 1221744104 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot! < 1221744105 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | so that book covers hieratics, too? < 1221744106 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot! < 1221744107 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | soon < 1221744109 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot! < 1221744110 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | You can cross-compile < 1221744110 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* ??? Should be able to merge these two by examining BLOCK_REG_PADDING. */ < 1221744112 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vant interesting topikk < 1221744114 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot! < 1221744115 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | even then, one can do all the others < 1221744118 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1221744122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an example of the sort of comment I was thinking of < 1221744124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh what? < 1221744129 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :??? is gcc's equivalent of TODO, by the way < 1221744131 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was ignoring that < 1221744133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah ok < 1221744137 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: similar English style, too < 1221744144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I use TODO/FIXME an such if that is what you mean < 1221744150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think everyone does < 1221744152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since my editor makes them stand out in red < 1221744153 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, he means the style of english < 1221744155 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like you said < 1221744160 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1221744161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1221744161 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like _he_ said < 1221744169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see anything special about the English style? < 1221744178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-idiomatic? < 1221744188 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not from that comment < 1221744191 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but perhaps he has seen others < 1221744194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1221744196 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that sort of sentence fragment is something I see you do from time-to-time, but most other people don't < 1221744217 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* ??? Should be able to merge these two by examining BLOCK_REG_PADDING. */ < 1221744217 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i would write this as < 1221744219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sorry, not sure what "sentence fragment" is. < 1221744240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: something that looks a bit like a sentence but isn't grammatically correct, in this case because there is a verb in it but no subject < 1221744241 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* these two could probably be merged with BLOCK_REG_PADDING */ < 1221744242 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1221744256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: yes, that looks more idiomatic < 1221744286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1221744296 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here is the document by which i derive my c style: http://doc.cat-v.org/bell_labs/pikestyle < 1221744304 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is very reasonable to me < 1221744314 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders how similar it is to theirs
< 1221744315 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from the last section < 1221744317 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree with it in principle < 1221744319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you mean like "BASE - I/O for numbers in other bases" < 1221744322 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but on today's systems... < 1221744323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1221744324 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't really work < 1221744348 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's also a sentence fragment, although that's one of the contexts in which a fragment makes sense < 1221744360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fragment's aren't wrong, as such, on their own (although they are wrong inside larger paragraphs) < 1221744370 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: *fragments < 1221744374 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in lists and so on they're pretty common < 1221744376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well comments in C code tend to be on their own a lot of the time < 1221744378 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thanks, it was a typo < 1221744380 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH SHIT! HERE COMES AN 'S'! < 1221744381 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1221744389 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my fingers knew that line needed an apostrophe < 1221744399 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they guessed before an s, which is a decent place to put one, generally speaking < 1221744403 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think of the sentence in advance < 1221744406 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I never have that kind of problem < 1221744415 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, I probably couldn't think of "fragment's aren't wrong, as such, on their own (although they are wrong inside larger paragraphs)" in my head < 1221744425 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I write down my sentences as I think of them, just a little ahead of my typing < 1221744427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then when the aren't came up they realised that was where the apostrophe went and put another one in < 1221744429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, your fingers guess? They can think of their own? < 1221744430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1221744431 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that I can amend them to work while writing them < 1221744443 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, his brain guessed. < 1221744446 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: to some extent, that's how everyone gets good at typing, I thought < 1221744446 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1221744452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's my brain controlling the fingers, really < 1221744456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, of course I know.... I was trying to build up a joke < 1221744459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you ruined it < 1221744465 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's the part responsible for typing rather than the part responsible for thinking up sentences < 1221744466 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: good, i'm sure it was terrible :-) < 1221744473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION slaps tusho
< 1221744480 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You forgot the big wet troat < 1221744482 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*trout < 1221744486 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Big wet trout or it didn't happen < 1221744489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, I don't use aliases < 1221744493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well I got one < 1221744496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION slaps tusho with a super-large, super-smelly, decaying digitally-enhanced reinforced IRC-grade trout
< 1221744504 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't AnMaster an alias? :o < 1221744516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah2, I normally avoid torut < 1221744518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trout* < 1221744521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he asked for it < 1221744535 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*torus < 1221744539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nop < 1221744555 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION slaps AnMaster with a torus
< 1221744559 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FEEL THE HOLE < 1221744585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: one thing lots of people don't realise is that commenting every line with what it does is actually helpful while learning asm < 1221744599 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although preferably comments explaining what the program does, on lines of their own, help too < 1221744600 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that is a c style guide < 1221744602 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not asm < 1221744603 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1221744604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1221744611 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, er, i write my c code for people who know c < 1221744611 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1221744618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asm is so much easier to read when every line has been translated into English and you don't know the notation, though < 1221744680 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: the section at the end is unaware of how modern preprocessors work < 1221744686 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: look at the date < 1221744691 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the author < 1221744695 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Rob Pike < 1221744695 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : February 21, 1989 " < 1221744702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1221744702 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, he can be forgiven for that < 1221744711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders
< 1221744714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but modern people can be forgiven for not following it < 1221744720 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1221744723 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said i don't agree with the last section < 1221744815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the "Algol­68 report"? < 1221744819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how did it look < 1221744823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: standard for Algol-68 < 1221744826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it is mentioned in that link tusho gave < 1221744832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all the programming examples in it were beautifully formatted < 1221744841 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ALGOL_68 < 1221744858 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite possibly the people preparing the standard had a pretty-printer < 1221744872 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm also willing to believe that someone there was crazy enough to format them all perfectly by hand < 1221744892 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ALGOL-68 isn't whitespace-sensitive, so the programs could have been written all one one line if desired...) < 1221744894 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the beef I have with just about every "beautiful coding" style: < 1221744895 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes they care too much: pretty printers mechanically produce pretty output that accentuates irrelevant detail in the program, which is as sensible as putting all the prepositions in English text in bold font. < 1221744920 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: or carefully indent each column in source code which actually reads from left to right? < 1221744922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that link tusho gave seems to suggest syntax highlighting is bad? < 1221744936 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, just irrelevant syntax highlighting < 1221744938 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: syntax highlighting and pretty-printing are different < 1221744942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1221744943 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also plz2be looking up the definition of pretty-printer < 1221744945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax higlighting makes files easier to edit by catching typos < 1221744946 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indent(1) is a prettyprinter < 1221744956 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :astyle(1) or whatever is too < 1221744970 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty-printing can incidentally catch typos too, but its main purpose is to make source code look nicer and therefore easier to read < 1221744980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah well I use astyle myself. And I argue that one coding style per file is easier to read than a mix of several < 1221744988 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the second sentence is irrelevant < 1221744993 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is that pretty-printers have got it backwards < 1221745000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, because that is what I use astyle to fix. < 1221745006 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION had forgotten that 'isnt' was an ALGOL-68 keyword
< 1221745012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hah < 1221745012 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not the point < 1221745013 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to love old-fashioned languages... < 1221745029 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: also, the quotes are relevant unless you pragma a different way to specify keywords < 1221745038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1221745040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, not quotes < 1221745042 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, decided there's no point arguing with AnMaster a while ago, he just calls me a troll and never, ever changes his stance on any point... < 1221745043 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the default was to precede by a . < 1221745045 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.isnt < 1221745068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia seems to underline all the keywords < 1221745088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do change my stance on some issues < 1221745089 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in fact apparently in one implementation you would write a keyword like isnt as isnt^H^H^H^H____ < 1221745097 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which IMO is crazy, but there you go < 1221745102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1221745106 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: intercal should do that < 1221745107 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... the creators of INTERCAL probably knew about this too < 1221745109 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fr'lz < 1221745115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: it does in some of the operator names < 1221745124 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for underlining < 1221745125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the most portable way to write the unary XOR operator is V^H- < 1221745138 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for underlining, though, you're right, but underlining was just a way to specify keywords < 1221745149 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the Report, all the keywords were in bold and everything else was in italic < 1221745167 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, ALGOL-68 is one of the few languages which allows you to have a variable and a keyword with the same name < 1221745195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on how you were specifying keywords, the keyword and variable would either be .isnt and isnt, or ISNT and isnt, or isnt and _isnt < 1221745239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia has a similar example, actually: comment "bold" comment comment with the first and last instances of "comment" underlined < 1221745267 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ALGOL-68 also allows spaces in variable names < 1221745295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly that's where the _ means space in a variable name convention came from < 1221745318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say you wanted to call a variable for in but were using RES stropping, you would write for_in because the underscore dekeyworded the words to either side < 1221745332 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how Rob Pike thinks UNIX and its principles are dead: < 1221745344 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# "Not only is UNIX dead, it's starting to smell really bad." - circa 1991 < 1221745345 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# "Those days are dead and gone and the eulogy was delivered by Perl." - on one tool for one job < 1221745345 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# "I started keeping a list of these annoyances but it got too long and depressing so I just learned to live with them again. We really are using a 1970s era operating system well past its sell-by date. We get a lot done, and we have fun, but let's face it, the fundamental design of Unix is older than many of the readers of Slashdot, while lots of different, great ideas about computing and networks have been developed in the last 30 years. Using Unix is the c < 1221745351 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bet that last one got cut < 1221745364 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1221745392 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where < 1221745397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using Unix is the c < 1221745424 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :urk, Wikipedia just reminded me of Algol's strange terminology too, for instance "monadic" is Algolese for "unary", and "name" is Algolese for "address of" < 1221745425 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omputing equivalent of listening only to music by David Cassidy." < 1221745434 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: monadic = unary is APL/K/etc too < 1221745440 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other languages around that time < 1221745445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still confusing if you know Haskell though... < 1221745446 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they only have two kind of operator/functions: monadic and dyadic < 1221745458 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Or category theory. :P < 1221745527 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Algol has the opposite problem to C++ to some extent, there was so much implicit casting going on that they needed a different operator to compare pointers and the things they pointed to < 1221745530 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus is versus = < 1221745543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, I too agree with that link you posted before, apart from last section < 1221745563 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: your commenting style is quite opposed to it < 1221745567 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Algol translated into C is interesting: all variables end up as type const < 1221745574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :headers should be possible to include in any order (unless there are exceptional circumstances) and also several times < 1221745575 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :justifying the text, and the fancy * stuff at the start of continuing lines and such < 1221745576 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance in C you would write int i; < 1221745578 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and doxygen < 1221745585 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is directly arguing against things like doxygen < 1221745594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, how do you mean? comment style? Yes I used doxygen in headers to auto generate documentation < 1221745595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :translating the Algol style you'd get int * const ip = alloca(sizeof(int)); < 1221745607 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: perhaps you should read that article again... < 1221745609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but apart from that? < 1221745619 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use a garbage-collected malloc rather than alloca if you needed the variable to stick around < 1221745624 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its an important point, because it's another aspect of the singular point it makes < 1221745667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, the reason I document headers is it is API docs for fingerprint developers < 1221745715 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly the best part of ALGOL for someone who likes crazy language design is that it has 5 different sorts of context < 1221745716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there is also the case of the gpl header. for obvious reasons < 1221745733 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the context of something determines what implicit casts can be applied to it < 1221745734 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmph, sqlobject is weird < 1221745742 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nobody in #python knows it, apparentl < 1221745742 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y < 1221745748 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can create a strong context by putting in an explicit cast, but that's cheating really < 1221745783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1221745788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay: http://burks.brighton.ac.uk/burks/language/other/a68rr/rrtoc.htm < 1221745793 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ALGOL 68 report is publically online < 1221745805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have it in paper form, but it's nice to know other people can get it too < 1221745890 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to find the PDF: the flowchart's pretty necessary for understanding coercion
< 1221745907 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1221745909 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why won't that wurorkwrk < 1221745914 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://vestein.arb-phys.uni-dortmund.de/~wb/RR/rr.pdf < 1221746072 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, what sort of official language specification uses words like SITHETY as names for BNF groups? < 1221746081 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know you can call them anything you like, but really... < 1221746257 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this is a pg-13 channel! < 1221746259 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no, it's not < 1221746280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: anyway, if you've never read the ALGOL-68 Revised Report, you should < 1221746284 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1221746291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :preferably the paper version as I can't find the flowcharts in the PDF < 1221746296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: because it's almost an esolang < 1221746300 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1221746306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the concepts aren't particularly unusual, but all the trappings are < 1221746329 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably if it was proposed nowadays people would think it was an esolang < 1221746333 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, spaces in variable names? < 1221746353 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do that in lisp < 1221746360 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :|hello world| < 1221746400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: algol requires no special syntax for it, though < 1221746407 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not special syntax < 1221746413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: you put vertical bars in < 1221746421 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but you could never use "hello" < 1221746423 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just |hello| < 1221746426 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(|setq| |hello world| 2) < 1221746435 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :setq is syntactical sugar for |setq| < 1221746437 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could say < 1221746446 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ref int hello world = auto int; < 1221746450 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops < 1221746457 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.ref .int hello world = .auto .int; < 1221746465 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I'm going to change the keywording style < 1221746479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that can be abbreviated to .int hello world; the same way as in C < 1221746664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh < 1221746805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate OS X... I have to help mom reinstall OS X on her mac again, since it managed to become unbootable again... In fact even windows xp have less issues than OS X 10.4 (don't know about 10.5, but 10.4 is bad) < 1221746822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and it's an macbook < 1221746838 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never used it, except for a short time to use a text editor once < 1221746873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it seems to consist of *two* install DVDs < 1221746885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a lot < 1221746906 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no reason for it to become unbootable < 1221746910 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly a hardware problem < 1221746918 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't think of any known problems that'd do that, anyway < 1221746932 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless your mom suddenly decided to go in the terminal and type every command ever < 1221746935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, well I did boot from a linux cd with memtest, no issues. could be other hardware of course < 1221746941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, nop she use GUI < 1221747222 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's curious, since I've had 10.4 on this iBook for a couple of years now (four, it seems) and there have never really been any OS-related trouble. < 1221747241 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe not four years with OS 10.4, since it had 10.3 when I bought it. < 1221747262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well this one was sold with 10.4. Don't remember how long ago < 1221747274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this is the third reinstall < 1221747325 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: then it is almost certainly a hardware problem i'd say < 1221747341 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have had absolutely 0 problems with 10.4 for the few years i've used it < 1221747358 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and people I know who use OS X have barely any problems < 1221747362 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly not unbootable ones < 1221747364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it isn't memory, I used memtest86+ from a bootable linux cd < 1221747369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(arch I think it was) < 1221747378 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you've said < 1221747391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, and I don't know any other diagnosis tool < 1221747409 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shrugs
< 1221747434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well disk diagnosis, and that shows no issues either < 1221747459 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask on a mac site? < 1221747464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and the issue wasn't the same every time, the first time the file system had got corrupted, this time it seems that only the system itself got corrupted in some way, since all files seems readable < 1221747466 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's tons of them with hardware sections < 1221747476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'll do that < 1221747487 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange, though < 1221747557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, this time booting into that "command line only" mode worked, but I couldn't get the GUI running. It just locked up in the middle of the boot process (I waited over three hours, so I don't think it was "just a bit slow") < 1221747571 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"command line only mode" = single user mode < 1221747576 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every unix has it < 1221747601 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: have you asked her what she was doing before it became unbootable? < 1221747608 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :users can be very silly :^) < 1221747694 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also often worth a try if you feel like more troubleshooting than a reinstall: booting with the "command-v" key combination pressed; it should boot without the GUI progress-bar thing and show related messages.a < 1221747714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, of course I asked here < 1221747715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :her* < 1221747814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"turned on computer, checked mail, worked with work related stuff in word (she is a teacher), uploaded some images from her camera, did some light curve adjustments in photoshop, sent one of the pics using email, turned off computer" < 1221747822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :next day: didn't boot < 1221747840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shutdown was apparently clean as far as I can tell < 1221747871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm command-v, will remember that to next time < 1221747932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw I hate that: switching between mac keyboards and normal keyboards, you end up using Alt instead of ctrl and so on, all due to their silly keyboard layout < 1221748013 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've remapped most of these iBook keys to work just like a "normal" keyboard for that very reason. < 1221748042 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things don't exactly match the labeling now, but that's not too bad. < 1221748084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and of course the install itself take ages. at least an hour it seems < 1221748102 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the keyboard layout makes sense < 1221748114 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you don't get clashes like ctrl-c and ctrl-v inside the terminal < 1221748119 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ctrl means ctrl, cmd means cm < 1221748120 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d < 1221748128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while I could get an arch system up and running in about 30 minutes with KDE assuming all the files are on the cd (and none need to be downloaded) < 1221748148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no files need to be downloaded for the os x install cd < 1221748186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err install *dvds* < 1221748189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes plural < 1221748215 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :continue being incredulous about "DVDs! Plural!" and I'll start listing off the things included on the dvds and why < 1221748250 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Few gigabytes of printer drivers, for one thing. :p < 1221748260 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The size of those things is something incredible.) < 1221748264 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1221748306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure I bet there is a reason to include a movie editor, garage band (I wouldn't even know what category that app is in, certainly it is not professional music editor, like cubase or such) < 1221748336 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HP includes a copy of Tomcat (the Java servlet container thing) in many of its printer drivers, just because the "printer status" driver-dialog-tab is implemented as a Java servlet. < 1221748336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and a demo version of office 2004 < 1221748359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, argh that explains why the install need 300 mb on windows at least < 1221748372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the hplip drivers on linux are way smaller < 1221748383 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :garageband is for...wait for it...garage bands < 1221748399 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the reason all those apps are included is because it's the iLife suite < 1221748402 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is a major selling point for apple < 1221748407 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus, er, most of the apps are useful < 1221748410 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being that I use them often < 1221748475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iMovie? Garage Band (hey they should have called it: iGarage iBand iMania or something), iPhoto (ok that is probably good acutally) < 1221748483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't remember what else is included in iLife < 1221748515 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iDVD. < 1221748522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1221748529 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, an iJoke < 1221748536 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how refreshing, how clever, how 2003 < 1221748548 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1221748548 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And iPhoto, of course. < 1221748556 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iLife = < 1221748559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I mentioned that y es < 1221748561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes* < 1221748562 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops presed enter < 1221748575 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iLife = i{Photo,Movie,Web,DVD}, GarageBand < 1221748591 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I didn't bother reading the line much longer than that part about iGarage iBand. < 1221748593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iWeb is? < 1221748600 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a website creator thingy < 1221748606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, "iGarage iBand iMania" even < 1221748606 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iWeb == "Create websites that are more custom, more complete, more you." < 1221748615 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not _too_ bad, obviously limited etc < 1221748617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1221748624 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it generates valid, relatively reasonable markup < 1221748630 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and does things like rss feeds for its blogs and such < 1221748639 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not useful for much but I've seen sites with it and they're ok < 1221748728 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've used iMovie and it's pretty good for simple stuff < 1221748746 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really have any photos to manage but I've played with iPhoto and it seems very good for what it does < 1221748761 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've burned stuff with iDVD and it was basically like iMovie, good for simple stuff < 1221748781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah it's on the second dvd now < 1221748868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well Apple is at least not taking part in the "golf install cd image size" competition < 1221748887 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not exactly a huge problem, though < 1221748892 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you install the OS -once- in most cases < 1221748898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, indeed < 1221748971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact for me, apple lost all attraction it had back when they ditched ppc for intel < 1221748981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before that they actually had something special < 1221748986 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1221748989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a good RISC processor < 1221748998 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares if the new macs are many times faster because of it < 1221749001 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was something speeeeeecial < 1221749006 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, their "something special" is their OS < 1221749008 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always has been < 1221749009 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always will be < 1221749025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why don't sell it for normal pcs? < 1221749032 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they are a hardware company < 1221749046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well they would make more money as a software company I suspect < 1221749055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ iPod and iPhone < 1221749057 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most likely not < 1221749068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, oh yes forgot that macs are overpriced too < 1221749079 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're overpriced because of the OS < 1221749092 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :regular priced computer + the OS tax < 1221749104 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're a hardware company that makes their money because of their software < 1221749109 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's confusing but it seems to work < 1221749110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes they got one good thing, the magnetic power connection < 1221749113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :connector* < 1221749118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is actually a very good idea < 1221749138 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :atm my imac has two wires on it < 1221749141 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the power connector and the mouse lead < 1221749150 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used a wireless mouse but its battery stuff went weird < 1221749154 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'm using a wired one now < 1221749161 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait, 3 wires < 1221749165 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have the ethernet plugged in < 1221749173 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the wireless slowdown annoys me < 1221749188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"battery stuff went weird" <-- battery leaked or? < 1221749199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leaking batteries suck < 1221749207 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, it just kept turning off because the batteries were supposedly dead but they had like a third left < 1221749209 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :replaced it, happened again < 1221749221 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :happened again like twice more so i just said fuck it and plugged this el cheapo one in < 1221749229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, no warranty on the mouse any more? < 1221749236 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: dunno < 1221749242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... < 1221749243 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has been dropped quite a bit in its life < 1221749243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1221749249 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so its probably that < 1221749266 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. the teflon base has like 3 scratches and they make it really scratchy to use :\ < 1221749278 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the scratches are pretty bad and the base is pretty vulnerable < 1221749285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and my mouse is a wire one, from Microsoft actually, it's ergonomic < 1221749298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike this apple mouse < 1221749314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wireless, no visible buttons, "scroll-ball" < 1221749317 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, did apple kill your babies or something? < 1221749327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just think apple is crap < 1221749331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of the time < 1221749345 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently you're not secure enough in that position that you have to point it out all the damn time to everyone < 1221749374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, I'm talking about it now since I'm waiting for os x to finish reinstalling < 1221749389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that explains the reason for this much better < 1221749412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then I got office and photoshop and a lot of other stuff to set up again < 1221752404 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1221752417 0 :ais523!n=ais523@sm01-fap04.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1221752417 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1221752740 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | the latter < 1221752840 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1221752874 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIP optbot. < 1221752887 0 :optbot!n=optbot@eso-std.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1221752887 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | How else will a process send a message to the process that handles them? < 1221752889 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Long live optbot. < 1221752889 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: it has plenty to do with number < 1221753402 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot! < 1221753402 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | >>> Music Game iniciado! Pergunta em 10 Segundos. < 1221753412 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay :P < 1221753726 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1221753741 0 :ais523!n=ais523@sm01-fap04.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1221753741 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1221754228 0 :tusho_!n=tusho@91.105.68.172 JOIN :#esoteric < 1221754684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi tusho_ < 1221755184 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1221755341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho_, there? < 1221755449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The computer needs to restart to install upgrade" (translated from Swedish) ok fine. BUT: "The computer can't shut down due to not being able to stop "MirrorAgent"" (again translated from Swedish). That is just one of the daily issues on a clean OS X install < 1221755544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems I'm not alone with the issue according to google < 1221755583 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arguably it's a good thing that it tells you if something doesn't respond to SIGTERM (which I guess is what it tries?) < 1221755595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well I could force kill it < 1221755602 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: probably sends it a stop signal first using its stop script < 1221755608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my mom is not computer literate enough to do that < 1221755609 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the best way to close down a service < 1221755620 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the way it's supposed to stop, anyway... < 1221755625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this "MirrorAgent" seems related to that apple idisk thing, which she doesn't even use < 1221755630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no idea why it is running at all < 1221755690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: probably a service that loads on startup < 1221755691 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you could force kill it and the OS could as well, but if the program in question has your unsaved master's thesis in it you might want to consider another route < 1221755696 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was sort of my point < 1221755702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, totally unneccesary < 1221755711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes, but it doesn't know that < 1221755722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally speaking if someone installs a service they want to be able to use it < 1221755738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the OS installed it < 1221755743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't think anyone enabled it < 1221755755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor did I see any option for it < 1221755769 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most services are enabled by default, is my point < 1221755775 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they can't be used if they aren't running < 1221755779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that is the wrong approach < 1221755805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, quite possibly, it's the approach most OSes actually use in practice, though, even if you don't like it < 1221755820 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally they're things like http servers or whatever, in which case that approach makes sense < 1221755828 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or otherwise might need to run without the user doing something < 1221755837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) more possibilities for bugs (like in the case I just hit) 2) more memory used, longer startup time 3) more potential security risks < 1221755860 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is why people securing OSes often go through all the services they don't need and turn them off < 1221755868 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, I agree that it's a bad idea in this case, probably in most cases < 1221755875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't prevent it being true, though < 1221755879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, secure by default. OpenBSD got a point... < 1221755895 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-82-181.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1221755896 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "The computer needs to restart to install upgrade" (translated from Swedish) ok fine. BUT: "The computer can't shut down due to not being able to stop "MirrorAgent"" (again translated from Swedish). That is just one of the daily issues on a clean OS X install < 1221755898 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a very clean install < 1221755900 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's BROKEN < 1221755913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho_, it seems to be a issue other ppl hit according to google < 1221755915 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1221755920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'd say it is not something specific to this install < 1221755927 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never hit it before, never heard of anyone hitting it < 1221755945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://macosx.com/tech-support/mac/mirroragent/16797.html < 1221755945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.macfixitforums.com/ubbthreads.php/ubb/showflat/Number/721735/site_id/1 < 1221755951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the two first google hits < 1221755982 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: barely any problem has never happened before < 1221755987 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question is how common it is < 1221756303 0 :Slereah2!n=x@ANantes-252-1-24-38.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1221756314 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-080-228-179-129.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1221756640 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1221757604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone here know where the "Rules of the Internet" are listed? < 1221757610 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People keep referring to them by number, which is disconcerting < 1221757616 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I don't know which number goes with which rule < 1221757622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry, OT I know) < 1221757866 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rule 34 is common, others aren't < 1221757896 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: do you know where the list is, though? < 1221757914 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you seen other numbers? I don't think there a list, let alone rules 1 through 33 < 1221757921 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ a/ is a/ < 1221757924 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia redirects me to "Netiquette", which is not all that helpful < 1221757930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I'm pretty sure I've seen other numbers < 1221757938 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way, 34: "There is porn of it", right? < 1221757944 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1221757960 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://encyclopediadramatica.com/index.php/Rules_Of_The_Internet < 1221757973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes, ED < 1221757974 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's new, of course. < 1221757983 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better get a different connection before going there, though < 1221758018 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evidently also http://209.85.135.104/search?q=cache:r45nvkJrRYsJ:rules.of-the-internet.com/&strip=1 < 1221758024 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, found it in Wayback < 1221758077 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, most of those aren't very interesting < 1221758086 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rule 34 is the only standard one I know of < 1221758112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's rule 35 which says that rule 34 doesn't apply if someone mentions rule 34 < 1221758125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of like that rider on Godwin's Law, which I'm surprised doesn't have a number < 1221758132 0 :tusho_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :tusho < 1221758184 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google seems to think that rule 35 is more commonly "if there is no porn of it, it will be made." < 1221758196 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything except for rules 1, 2, and 34 can't really be agreed upon. < 1221758202 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: makes sense < 1221758212 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably 34 caught on because it was the only sensible one of the lot < 1221758214 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rule 1: Don't talk about /b/. Rule 2: Do *NOT* talk about /b/. < 1221758214 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rules 1 and 2 most likely depend on the community in which they are quoted < 1221758225 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as evidenced in that link above, rule 2 isn't universal < 1221758230 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: it's /b/ everywhere I look for rule 1 at least < 1221758243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is strange, because that implies that in fact lots of people are talking about it < 1221758249 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also, I think 34 is a lot older than the rest. < 1221758251 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since most of those come courtesy of IRC and/or /b/, I'd say rules 1 and 2 referring to /b/ make sense. < 1221758254 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words, you can't quote rule 1 without breaking it < 1221758272 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's a Fight Club reference. < 1221758278 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, obviously < 1221758289 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah... < 1221758324 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fight Club didn't break the rule, strangely enough < 1221758329 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was "You do not talk about Fight Club" < 1221758342 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't rule out the person giving the rule talking about Fight Club < 1221758353 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus the rule can be given without breaking it < 1221758539 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rules 1 and 2 are only for raids. < 1221758545 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or they're not, depending on who you ask. < 1221758562 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly this is all a lot more confusing than I thought it would be < 1221758575 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the Internet: nothing is well-defined. < 1221758580 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm calling that metarule 1. < 1221758581 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1221758604 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Rules of the internet" are what a bunch of /b/tards thought was funny to list. < 1221758617 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ones relating to porn and its existence are mostly standard & useful. < 1221758625 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rest is just filler. < 1221758650 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, the person who posted rules 1 & 2 just violated them. < 1221758656 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be "Do not talk about /b/ outside of /b/" < 1221758703 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well. Anyway. < 1221758975 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523|displaced < 1221758986 0 :ais523|displaced!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523 < 1221759358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1221759375 0 :ais523!n=ais523@sm01-fap04.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1221759375 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1221759775 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.conservapedia.com/Evolution < 1221759776 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hitler. < 1221760184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: the URL tells me all I need to know, I don't even need to visit it < 1221760191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it's been vandalised for the trillionth time < 1221760193 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again < 1221760198 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh you do need to visit it < 1221760202 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has been edited < 1221760207 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make sure to have images enabled < 1221760209 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not vandalised < 1221760211 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's protected < 1221760216 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just click and gawp. < 1221760227 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they haven't got the picture of Jesus riding a dinosaur back again, have they? < 1221760230 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1221760235 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something entirely new < 1221760236 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go look < 1221760343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, I have a question for you about OS X < 1221760351 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what, 'WHY DOES IT SUCK SO MUCH?' < 1221760352 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1221760353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where do you set fonts to use in the menus and such? < 1221760353 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another one? < 1221760359 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't < 1221760362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, where < 1221760365 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't < 1221760373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my mother think they are too smal < 1221760374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :small < 1221760376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to read < 1221760377 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1221760378 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :font SIZE < 1221760379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might make two Macs different! < 1221760381 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why didn't you say < 1221760392 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought you meant typeface < 1221760398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you mean you can set font size but not font < 1221760402 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think so < 1221760402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I didn't expect that < 1221760409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now where to I make the fonts larger < 1221760411 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :having not done it i don't know, just a sec < 1221760414 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll give a quick look < 1221760461 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ah, hm < 1221760468 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't believe it was native in tiger, which is odd < 1221760470 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not very good < 1221760472 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps it's in leopard < 1221760473 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however < 1221760476 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently tinkertool can do it < 1221760479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tinkertool? < 1221760483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some freeware app? < 1221760485 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.bresink.com/osx/TinkerTool.html < 1221760487 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1221760508 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a shame, i wonder why not < 1221760514 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: tinker tool -> fonts < 1221760524 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has everything < 1221760655 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, that sucks muchly < 1221760819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, hm that OS X lack that setting by default? < 1221760826 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1221760830 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno if it's in leopard < 1221760834 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think so, they made stuff all vectory then < 1221760839 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus added a lot more sizing stuff < 1221760840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow you admitted it ;) *ducks* < 1221760857 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have never denied flaws in os x, and i argue exactly the same with people who spew crap about windows < 1221760889 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real flaws: yes, bad < 1221760904 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flaws that are being exaggerated or are just untrue, etc.: argue < 1221761223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does mac firefox have rearranged menus compared to linux firefox... < 1221761381 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: to fit in with the platform < 1221761383 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its the same on windows < 1221761437 0 :cherez!n=cherez@r02snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1221761768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, well for ppl who use firefox on many platforms it is confusing < 1221761785 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not really. < 1221761794 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely, being such a masochist, you would have learned all the shortcuts? < 1221761797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, yes took a while to find the settings dialog < 1221761807 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: presumably AnMaster has his own shortcuts < 1221761810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1221761811 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on OS X it's always appname->preferences < 1221761811 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for every application ever invente < 1221761812 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always < 1221761814 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/$/d/ < 1221761819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: lynx < 1221761820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1221761822 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's always cmd-, < 1221761830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1221761833 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except FF seems to fail at cmd-, for some godforsaken reason that is their fault :P < 1221761840 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though it's listed as the shortcut < 1221761850 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and flashes the right menu bar entry when you type it < 1221761871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, cmd-, works here < 1221761879 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1221761880 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1221761885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ffx 3.0.1 it seems < 1221761892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ff* < 1221761896 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ditto < 1221761918 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the thing with ff is that they do everything themselves, pretty much < 1221761928 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it works OS X like enough apart from tons of corner cases < 1221761946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, or it could be os x that works apart from corner cases < 1221761951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how could you know < 1221761955 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because I know how firefox does it < 1221761959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah ok < 1221761968 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xul is kind of a waste of time anyway they have to recode the gui for different platforms to fit in regardless < 1221763194 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-82-181.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1221763213 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1221763228 0 :Corun!n=Corun@halls-129-31-82-181.hor.ic.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1221763320 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1221763362 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1221763382 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is http://instantrimshot.com/ pressed down when you're not clicking it < 1221763386 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and pressed out when you click < 1221763402 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: to confuse you < 1221763404 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1221763409 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :badum TISH < 1221763409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you specifically < 1221763412 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait < 1221763424 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: you were holding your mouse upside-down? < 1221763432 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DDDDDDD < 1221763681 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1221764223 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1221764232 0 :ais523!n=ais523@sm01-fap04.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1221764232 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1221764601 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1221765451 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1221765827 0 :Slereah2!n=x@ANantes-252-1-24-38.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1221766238 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1221766245 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1221766581 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoah < 1221766590 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hold the title of the submitter of the most controversial reddit submission of all time < 1221766594 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/controversial/ < 1221766701 0 :ais523_!n=ais523@sm01-fap04.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1221766701 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523_ < 1221766742 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1221766744 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523 < 1221766816 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1221767092 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1221767800 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1221768578 0 :Slereah2!n=x@ANantes-252-1-24-38.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1221768705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, another issue, the default terminal on OS X is braindead < 1221768711 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1221768728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, how do you jump to beginning of the line? < 1221768729 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i'm not steve jobs, plz2be stop bugging me about things you don't like in os x < 1221768732 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ctrl-a. < 1221768735 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like every other terminal < 1221768747 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(prints ^A in cmd.exe) < 1221768755 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: cmd.exe is a terminal? < 1221768758 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1221768781 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's a terminal emulator like all those other programs you're talking about < 1221768790 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;-) < 1221768795 0 :ais523_!n=ais523@sm01-fap04.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1221768795 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523_ < 1221768807 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1221768814 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut < 1221768828 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1221768834 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523 < 1221768836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, I use "home" on my termina < 1221768838 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :54? that's a new one < 1221768840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :terminal* < 1221768844 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so? < 1221768846 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not standard < 1221768847 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was normally in the 100s < 1221768852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, it seems to work on every one < 1221768860 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: apparently not. < 1221768863 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear, another tusho/AnMaster style argument brewing up? < 1221768868 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no < 1221768870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, yet this done doesn't obey ~/.inputrc < 1221768871 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster is just whining about os x < 1221768873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, ... < 1221768874 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: are you sure < 1221768959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, I copied the one from my own computer... restarted terminal.app didn't help < 1221768961 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1221768975 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WFM < 1221768975 0 :ais523!n=ais523@sm01-fap04.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1221768975 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1221768998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, connection issues? < 1221769026 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1221769028 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm trying to read two length documents at once, so didn't even notice for ages the first time < 1221769030 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/length/lengthy/ < 1221769068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, also l10n is braindead in OS X. Finder says the directory is called "Bibliotek" but the terminal think it is called "Library < 1221769077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1221769079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really confusing < 1221769082 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT HOW YOU DON'T LIKE OS X < 1221769085 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I. DO. NOT. CARE. < 1221769089 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I. CANNOT. DO. ANYTHING. ABOUT. IT. < 1221769092 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STOP. HIGHLIGHTING. ME! < 1221769104 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like the 10th time you've complained about it today to me < 1221769887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, oh and weird, to type ctrl-c you hit cmd-. < 1221769902 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1221769904 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you type ctrl-c. < 1221769912 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmd-. does that too and i don't know why. < 1221769914 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you type ctrl-c. < 1221769915 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1221769916 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT HOW YOU DON'T LIKE OS X < 1221769923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ctrl-c doesn't work < 1221769926 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it does. < 1221769957 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: by the way, did I tell you that I used OS X and the menus were all in the wrong place and I couldn't cut-and-paste left handed without using my index finger? < 1221769960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, ah now it does, had to change a setting for Terminal.app < 1221769974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Strict VT-100 emulation" < 1221769976 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :D < 1221769977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had to be turned on < 1221769979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, ^ < 1221769981 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I never had to do that. < 1221769989 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now SHUT THE FUCK UP ABOUT HOW YOU DON'T LIKE OS X TO ME < 1221770009 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1221770021 0 :oklofok!n=nnscript@oklopol.yok.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1221770024 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'evening < 1221770073 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :evening oerjan < 1221770080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time of day, oklofok < 1221770086 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite a time < 1221770102 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1221770107 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oko < 1221770110 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okoko < 1221770114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokoko < 1221770116 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokoko < 1221770117 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ayeeh, it's changing! run away! < 1221770119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokoko < 1221770123 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokoko < 1221770125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokoko < 1221770128 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1221770129 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokoko < 1221770131 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokoko < 1221770134 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokoko < 1221770136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokoko < 1221770140 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokoko < 1221770142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokokoko < 1221770146 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokokokoko < 1221770147 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko < 1221770151 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko < 1221770153 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1221770162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear, we were going so well too < 1221770170 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason this oko tower reminds me of that LHC black hole < 1221770174 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got distracted < 1221770180 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by something, i'm sure < 1221770198 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: it was sufficiently distracting that you forgot what it was < 1221770205 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes! < 1221770221 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a raven. it quothed "Nevermore", except in finnish < 1221770347 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sunday as first doesn't make sense < 1221770409 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the resting day was Saturday, as any jew could tell you. blame the christians for confusing it < 1221770460 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Catholic church, specificially. < 1221770486 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, some christian churches (adventists?) reversed it < 1221770499 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my opinion he wouldn't have had a point even if sunday were the original < 1221770563 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think monday being first may be an ISO standard or something < 1221770593 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: And some christian churches point out that the day doesn't even *matter*... < 1221770628 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that Christianity doesn't exactly follow Jewish laws & traditions, anyways... < 1221770634 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed unless you are a young earth creationist you don't consider it a literal day anyhow < 1221770645 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1221770660 0 :oklofok!n=nnscript@oklopol.yok.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1221770707 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vaguely recall something about celevrating Sunday being because that was the day of Jesus' resurrection < 1221770719 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*b < 1221770745 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. < 1221770879 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wp seems to agree http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian_Sabbath < 1221770898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I also said: I don't like it. But you got a point < 1221770910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if it is an ISO standard I agree with it < 1221771139 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that may or may not be an ass-pull < 1221771209 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, ISO 8601:1988 defines Monday as the first day of the week. < 1221771217 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1221771228 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least that's what the man page of my strftime function says for the %V formatting specifier, I haven't checked. < 1221771293 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Days_of_the_week#First_day_of_the_week mentions it, though not the Sunday page < 1221771405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then that is a good reason < 1221772035 0 :Slereah_!n=x@ANantes-252-1-24-38.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1221772035 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1221773641 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : but if it is an ISO standard I agree with it < 1221773644 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great reasoning there < 1221773650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not at all < 1221773653 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION proposes a new ISO: Everyone should jump off a cliff.
< 1221773661 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woohoo! It got ratified! AnMaster, get to work. < 1221773678 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like a master villain scheme to me < 1221773687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, I like using standardlized systems < 1221773693 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: arguably OOXML is a step in that direction < 1221773697 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what system are you using right now? < 1221773698 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, straight off a cliff < 1221773712 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, now we can persuade AnMaster to distribute cfunge in pax format < 1221773713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, Linux, but there are no standard OS. < 1221773720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I may do both < 1221773732 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's like offering a seperate Windows version. < 1221773733 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: tar is no longer specified by POSIX < 1221773734 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you do that?????????????? < 1221773740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I know < 1221773754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, you are not logical < 1221773757 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear, someone else who actually had heard of pax before I told them < 1221773765 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes. Windows doesn't obey POSIX, nor does tar. < 1221773768 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is one strike against my theory of using it for C-INTERCAL... < 1221773778 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, Windows didn't fail a POSIX testsuite once < 1221773786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, actually I found I had it installed, even though I had no clue what it was < 1221773788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/AnMaster/tusho/ < 1221773789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess a dep of something < 1221773797 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: No actually I thikn that should be @AnMaster. < 1221773805 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If Windows doesn't fail POSIX tests, surely cfunge should support it? < 1221773814 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well it's what they put in POSIX to replace tar < 1221773835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho a clean windows install would fail it < 1221773845 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: are you sure? ais523? < 1221773857 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: the test is widely believed to have been heavily rigged < 1221773858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1221773864 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1221773865 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how rigged < 1221773871 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by implementing only the parts the testsuite tested < 1221773880 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely that's quite a lot though < 1221773882 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and taking advantage of every optional feature by not implementing it < 1221773891 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in many cases returning ENOSYS is enough to pass POSIX < 1221773897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and cfunge *does* depend on some optional features < 1221773898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like mmap < 1221773917 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably it was a nonstandard configuration too < 1221773928 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the website claims it supports any posix system < 1221773929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1221773934 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better change that < 1221773934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that "services for unix" < 1221773943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, I will tomorrow *yawn* < 1221773956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, also see README for more details < 1221773966 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like i'd ever download cfunge < 1221773966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though that may be missing there < 1221773990 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The answer is 2. < 1221774007 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ihope: You missed a 4? < 1221774009 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The technique used to find this answer is operant conditioning. < 1221774019 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: why wouldn't you? Waiting for it to turn up in your package manager? < 1221774032 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got it working a lot faster than I got CCBI working < 1221774035 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i hear apple are including it with the next os x < 1221774043 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although I did write the build system for both by hand) < 1221774043 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The question is how many times a previously rewarded behavior must be punished before the behavior is stopped whenever the instrument of punishment is seen. < 1221774047 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it's reduced functionality < 1221774061 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The instrument of punishment is a spray bottle. Use your imagination. < 1221774063 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all it does is print 'OS X is too retarded and dumb in every aspect to run this program, please complain to tusho ' < 1221774083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, as far as I know cfunge works on OS X < 1221774088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc fizzie tested it < 1221774090 0 :Slereah2!n=x@ANantes-252-1-24-38.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1221774093 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how can it, OS X sucks in every possible way < 1221774096 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm the only one who can fix it < 1221774106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, it is way more posix than windows at least < 1221774131 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1221774140 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it is certified unix, in fact. < 1221774155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1221774284 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: anyway I've pushed the new C-INTERCAL version < 1221774288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the new build system < 1221774291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and your patch to IFFI < 1221774310 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the cfunge stuff is broken atm < 1221774317 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I haven't written any build system for it < 1221774486 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | !dup ~dup !dup !dup ~dup !dup ~dup !dup ~dup !dup ~dup !dup ~dup !dup ~dup !dup !dup ~dup !dup ~dup !dup ~dup !dup !dup ~dup !dup ~dup !dup !dup ~dup !dup ~dup !dup ~dup !dup ~dup !dup ~dup !dup ~dup !dup !dup ~dup !dup ~dup !dup ~dup !dup ~dup !dup ~dup !dup !dup ~dup !dup ~dup !dup ~dup !dup ~dup !dup ~dup !dup ~dup !dup !dup ~dup !dup ~dup !dup ~dup !dup !dup ~dup !d !d < 1221774906 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1221774930 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I wonder how hard it would be to implement a Minsky machine in Proce. < 1221774971 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best topic EVAR < 1221774977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was definitely me < 1221774984 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1221774984 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a finite loop between EgoBot and bsmnt_bot < 1221774986 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's from the dupdog times < 1221774988 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1221774990 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1221775004 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once I implemented Underload in EgoBot, I got an infinite loop going too < 1221775020 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A register might be implementable as some construct that will oscillate at harmonics of a certain frequency. The tricky parts are creating that register and getting the harmonics to change right. < 1221775079 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ha, I knew it < 1221775081 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was cakeprophet < 1221775085 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's where dupdog comes from < 1221775102 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dupdog is great though < 1221775110 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one of those languages like Xigxag < 1221775114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which obviously isn't Turing-complete < 1221775117 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:17:01 hmm... I feel insipiration for an esoteric language. < 1221775120 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can't really tell for sure < 1221775142 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think dupdog is tc < 1221775151 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you think Xigxag is tc? < 1221775154 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1221775156 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks up
< 1221775169 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for that matter, that 2,3 turing machine is also reasonably obviously non-TC, except that it is < 1221775176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was non-TC for ages while trying to do the proof < 1221775196 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, i don't think xigxag is tc < 1221775808 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm so now there is a cycle of esoteric interpreters < 1221775819 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: in which languages? < 1221775824 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bub and BF < 1221775842 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're a bit too close for comfort though < 1221775844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I want to get C into that cycle somewhere < 1221776371 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spam: http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Talk:Turing_machine < 1221776392 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(new page so i cannot do it) < 1221776429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got it < 1221776442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been deleting the spam straight from the RSS feeds recently < 1221776448 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1221776451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you managed to beat even the RSS feed in reporting it this time < 1221776938 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanna see the spam < 1221776968 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: I can send you deleted versions if you really need them and there was nothing wrong with them < 1221776969 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why? < 1221776976 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just random strings of letters, mostly < 1221776992 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm a spam-enthusiast < 1221776996 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you could base an esolang on it :D < 1221777141 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want a language that opens new threads like every cycle, and they never die < 1221777152 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that execution is O(n^2) for n steps < 1221777171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: sounds like Proud in reverse < 1221777181 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Proud starts by creating an uncountably infinite number of threads < 1221777186 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and kills them until there's only one left < 1221777195 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is proud your declarative superlanguage? < 1221777199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's it < 1221777210 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like that conceptualization < 1221777231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... in theory you could run a Proud program using bogosort-like methods < 1221777254 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one was bogo < 1221777266 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :random perms or random swaps? < 1221777271 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :put all the objects in a random order, repeat if it's wrong < 1221777275 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so perms < 1221777277 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yarrr < 1221777297 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :swaps is bozosort, it's apparently twice as fast < 1221777371 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i find that counter-intuitive, you'd think the sorted list would be kind of a corner that's less probable to achieve by random exchanges < 1221777383 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas the permutator will try all things equally probably < 1221777399 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I would have expected them to be equally fast < 1221777409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a proof of it linked from the wiki article, though < 1221777415 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some mathematician was bored enough to write a paper about it < 1221777418 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah that's what i assumed too < 1221777428 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah i read taht paper < 1221777430 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that < 1221777498 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, actually < 1221777544 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a greater reason why you'd think the swapper would be slower is that you get repeated states more probably < 1221779051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1221779071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1221779130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1221779132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what paper? < 1221779167 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's linked from the wiki article on bogosort < 1221779204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolang wiki? < 1221779219 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, Wikipedia < 1221779237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, < 1221779424 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ZYXW" < 1221780211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah optimised bogo-sort < 1221780213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1221780216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well night < 1221780290 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1221780678 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"9" < 1221780839 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1221781174 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who wants to see the mammoth sql query that ais523 wrote (well, I clarified exactly what I was trying to do to ais and he wrote it)? < 1221781178 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is mammothy < 1221781419 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody? < 1221781487 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a woolly mammoth? < 1221781496 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1221781496 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SELECT name, threads.threadid, MAX(date), (readtime IS NULL AND MAX(date) > defaultreadtime OR readtime IS NOT NULL and MAX(date) > readtime) AS new FROM ((posts CROSS JOIN threads USING (threadid)) CROSS JOIN userdata LEFT JOIN readtimes ON (userdata.userid=readtimes.userid AND threads.threadid=readtimes.threadid)) WHERE userdata.userid=? GROUP BY threads.threadid ORDER BY MAX(date) DESC; < 1221781515 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that requires an index on posts USING BTREE (threadid,date) < 1221781525 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and an index on userthreadlastread (userid,threadid) < 1221781645 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that is a woolly mammoth is it not < 1221781699 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i see some threading there, so yeah < 1221781709 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, not that kind of thread < 1221782020 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :later < 1221782023 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving"