< 1222128876 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1222133062 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1222133160 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1222133253 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1222133745 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1222135325 0 :HanDongSeong!n=L@116.45.63.25 JOIN :#esoteric < 1222135840 0 :ihope!n=Peggy@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1222135953 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to come up with a very simple set of Thue rules that are... Thue-complete. < 1222136011 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that any Thue program can be converted into a Thue subprogram under these rules that runs with just as much nondeterminism, just as quickly. < 1222136113 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And after doing that, I want to engineer bacteria that rewrite strands of nucleic acid according to those rules. < 1222136342 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me on a test: "Client, server, and circuit are NOT the three hardware components of a network, because client and server are properties of the software, not hardware. However, that was probably the anticipated response" < 1222137777 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-131-113.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1222141690 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | afk eating cake and drinking coffe < 1222145180 0 :bsmntbombdood_!n=gavin@97-118-131-113.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1222145187 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1222146133 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1222146852 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1222147514 0 :HanDongSeong!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"염장" < 1222149678 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1222151679 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :puzzlet < 1222152256 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1222153099 0 :kar8ng1!n=kar8nga@i-210.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1222153234 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1222153348 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1222153639 0 :CO2Games!n=CO2Games@75-173-245-211.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1222156799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1222156800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1222160385 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1222163290 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | how would the code for C-INTERCAL be compiled on that? you would need to convert to tri-graphs right? < 1222163924 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :honestly speaking i don't get the topic < 1222165071 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trigraphs are a relatively rare C feature to cope with systems whose character sets do not include the characters C needs. For example you can write "??/" to get a "\", so you can use "??/n" as a newline in a string constant. < 1222165166 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC does those when called with -trigraphs or -std=c. < 1222165186 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I assume the topic is about some system with a limited character set, or something. < 1222165238 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An EBCDIC system, it seems. Not unsurprising. < 1222165291 0 :kar8ng1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1222165378 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember there being an amusing snippet about trigraphs in the GCC documentation, but can't seem to find it now. < 1222165463 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1222166738 0 :Mony!n=AssHole@AToulouse-258-1-148-172.w86-201.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1222166772 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plop < 1222167757 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"So, how much do you love noodles?" < 1222169871 0 :ihope!n=Peggy@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1222172807 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1222172824 0 :kar8ng1!n=kar8nga@k-237.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1222172846 0 :kar8ng1!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1222172949 0 :kar8ng1!n=kar8nga@k-237.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1222173173 0 :kar8ng1!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1222173544 0 :ais523!n=ais523@sm01-fap04.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1222173586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes the topic < 1222175017 0 :tusho!n=tusho@91.105.68.172 JOIN :#esoteric < 1222175038 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1222175049 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi tusho < 1222175060 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, i absolutely won that one < 1222175066 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1222175076 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I didn't start typing until after you'd finished < 1222175076 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :joined 2008-09-23 13:03:37 +0100 < 1222175079 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sent message two seconds later < 1222175596 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-028-216.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1222175875 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1222175889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm I think I managed to implement the select operator in erlang too < 1222175902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got some tests? the ones I tried seem to work < 1222175937 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I don't have tests offhand but I can just try putting some random big numbers into intercalc < 1222176038 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'#12345$#12345'~#58990 is CXIII (or 113) < 1222176046 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a random test case I used on INTERCAL < 1222176049 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*INTERCALC < 1222176079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, um that would be select(mingle(12345, 12345), 58990) ? < 1222176094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222176104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7> intercal:select(intercal:mingle(12345, 12345), 58990). < 1222176104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :807 < 1222176105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1222176107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1222176114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5> io:format("~.2B~n", [intercal:select(2#11100, 2#10101)]). < 1222176114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :110 < 1222176120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is correct I think? < 1222176131 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's correct < 1222176142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet I get 807 for your instead of 113 < 1222176146 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... try with a number more than 16 bits long < 1222176162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1> intercal:mingle(12345, 12345). < 1222176162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1032975 < 1222176166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1222176175 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something really simple like intercal:select(2#11001100110011001100, 2#1010101010101010101010) < 1222176184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: let me check, I calculated it but the answer came out in Roman numerals < 1222176227 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :25165122525 is the actual answer from the mingle < 1222176234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wtf :/ < 1222176240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9> io:format("~.2B~n", [intercal:select(2#11001100110011001100, 2#1010101010101010101010)]). < 1222176240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1010101010 < 1222176246 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that select looks right < 1222176251 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so my guess is it's mingle playing up again < 1222176267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw select uses big endian, didn't work otherwise < 1222176282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should just be some option to use maths-endian < 1222176305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm? There is native too < 1222176312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway the mingle: < 1222176314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10> io:format("~.2B~n", [intercal:mingle(12345, 12345)]). < 1222176314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11111100001100001111 < 1222176325 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's 12345 in binary? < 1222176338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11> io:format("~.2B~n", [12345]). < 1222176338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11000000111001 < 1222176353 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that mingle's wrong < 1222176370 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm having problems figuring out wtf it's done to the bit order < 1222176379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all your versions of mingle seem to output the right bits in the wrong order < 1222176398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is the same one that we thought worked yesterday < 1222176404 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1222176405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222176408 0 :moozilla!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :zelazny.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1222176413 0 :oklofok!n=nnscript@oklopol.yok.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1222176435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you said it should be 25165122525? < 1222176446 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222176448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10111011011111101010100101111011101 < 1222176453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't even close < 1222176454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I typoed < 1222176458 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Roman numerals are hard to read < 1222176468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the answer should definitely have 1s and 0s in pairs < 1222176495 0 :moozilla!n=moozilla@d11-83.rb.gh.centurytel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1222176517 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\C\C\L\IdclxiiCCLXXV in CLC-INTERCAL format < 1222176526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I can't work that out < 1222176528 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-INTERCAL format requires a fixed-width font and is two lines high < 1222176531 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use some spread function as an intermediate, that just intersperses 0 between all bits < 1222176543 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll use tty.i and a debugger, at least that will get the output in decimal < 1222176577 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then mingle(x,y) = 2*spread(x) + spread(y) < 1222176592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C1: Expression is 0xf000fc3 < 1222176595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that was hex < 1222176602 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's what C-INTERCAL does < 1222176604 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where 2* and + could easily be done with bit operations instead < 1222176607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it does it with bit operations < 1222176613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, which is 1111000000000000111111000011 < 1222176618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and different < 1222176625 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that last answer is the right one I think < 1222176627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*closer* to mine but not that close < 1222176634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11111100001100001111 < 1222176638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was my result < 1222176647 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :251662275 in decimal < 1222176657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I know how I misread it < 1222176664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :accidentally read lx as 51 rather than 6 < 1222176676 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and likewise LXX as 52 rather than 7 < 1222176682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, my Roman Numerals have got rusty... < 1222176682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my mingle gives 1032975 not 251662275 < 1222176693 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's outputting the bits in the wrong order < 1222176701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes... < 1222176714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but wrong order *how* this time? < 1222176716 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: LX is 60, LXX is 70 < 1222176737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, it would be so much easier if the bits were separate colours so we could track them... < 1222176743 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#ESOTERIC NEWS BULLETIN < 1222176743 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: yes, I know, I was referring to the span of digits < 1222176751 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AIS523 RESIGNS AS MAINTAINER OF C-INTERCAL < 1222176753 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: do you have a paste for that mingle code? < 1222176754 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotcha < 1222176756 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CITES "ROMAN NUMERAL PROBLEMS" < 1222176757 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION imagines beepy music in the background < 1222176769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, sure it is Erlang < 1222176777 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :APPARENTLY ERIC S. RAYMOND, THE ORIGINAL WRITER, IS TAKING OVER < 1222176780 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: nah, I was working on the build system further this morning < 1222176791 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN AN UNRELATED NOTE, C-INTERCAL USAGE DROPS 70% GOING TO CLC-INTERCAL. < 1222176792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it now works with -j2 (and presumably with -jN for all N) < 1222176799 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :USERS CITE "ESR" PROBLEMS. < 1222176799 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i mean a link < 1222176802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, http://rafb.net/p/lrtTEi50.html < 1222176808 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I think it works on cross-compile < 1222176810 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THANK YOU FOR WATCHING. WE'LL BE BACK IN A FEW HOURS. < 1222176812 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*da-da-DA-duh!* < 1222176820 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a cross-compiler here but not an ARM processor to run the results on < 1222176820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my select is uggly yes < 1222176861 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and actually I like that select < 1222176880 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be optimised by exploiting the fact that Acc1 is always 0, though < 1222176889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah no it isn't < 1222176894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, numerically 0 < 1222176900 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but presumably its length matters? < 1222176905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, problem is knowing the length yes < 1222176915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to know how much to extract at the end < 1222176921 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch erlang is harder than i hoped < 1222176932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, seems size() returns whole bytes only < 1222176955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a better way would maybe be incrementing a number to record number of bits < 1222176963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'd like to fix mingle first < 1222176993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh? < 1222177032 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: might be just AnMaster's code... < 1222177044 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh <<>> is a kind of bit field record syntax, i guess < 1222177050 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1222177058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it is binary/bitstring syntax < 1222177060 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :excuse the fact that it's obscure and impossible to read < 1222177065 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1222177075 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the obvious version would just be the first one you pasted, with mingle(T1, T2, <>) < 1222177083 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks like it should work, but IIRC it didn't < 1222177092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... maybe I should install Erlang to test stuff < 1222177094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : a b c d e f g < 1222177094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Correct: 1111 0000 0000 0000 1111 1100 0011 < 1222177094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ae f g bcd ae < 1222177094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Mine: 1111 1100 0011 0000 1111 < 1222177099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is my analysis < 1222177119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on nibble-basis I think < 1222177146 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is "I'm curious, How many redditors listen to NPR (at least one show per day)", a self.reddit post, #1 on reddit. < 1222177153 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a link to anything. It's just a bunch of people answering a question. < 1222177160 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is it #1 on a site supposed to be links to interesting stuff? < 1222177176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's not nibble-basis at all, it's swapped the first 16 bits with the second 16 bits, but left-justified for some reason < 1222177189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I pad to the right with 0s (note this is not normally a mathematically sensible operation): < 1222177202 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct: 1111 0000 0000 0000-1111 1100 0011 0000 < 1222177216 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yours: 1111 1100 0011 0000-1111 0000 0000 0000 < 1222177223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1222177230 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why is it padding /rightwards/? < 1222177235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that changes the value of a number < 1222177245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and numbers don't intrinsically have a particular number of bits < 1222177257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endianness maybe? < 1222177265 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's using some endianness on the level of bytes? < 1222177278 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which conflicts with the one inside bytes < 1222177280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it would have to be middle-endian to swap 16-bit blocks < 1222177284 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nothing is middle-endian nowadays < 1222177292 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet erlang is < 1222177294 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just for no reason < 1222177298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the one of the PDP computers was the most recent to do that < 1222177304 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/search?q=erlang%20middle-endian < 1222177325 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could that :16/little-unsigned qualifier be messing things up? < 1222177332 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the default is big < 1222177337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, the default is indeed big < 1222177339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and unsigned < 1222177349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, however it didn't work at all with big before < 1222177352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries again < 1222177365 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NUXI < 1222177369 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, so you put Int1 and Int2 as little-endian but the _result_ is interpreted as big < 1222177374 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the final Acc) < 1222177377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok... now big endian < 1222177377 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is my guess < 1222177382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works for this < 1222177389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :24> io:format("~.2B~n", [intercal:mingle(12345, 12345)]). < 1222177389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1111000000000000111111000011 < 1222177410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, doesn't make any sense though :P < 1222177428 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait you have :32/little-unsigned on the result pattern < 1222177440 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION downloads Erlang from the Ubuntu repos < 1222177442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the docs too < 1222177471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, erl -man erlang for example for that module, for language ref http://www.erlang.org/doc/reference_manual/part_frame.html < 1222177544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to the docs it should work even with no endianness specifier at all < 1222177545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is this correct then: < 1222177546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :29> io:format("~.2B~n", [intercal:mingle(16#1234, 16#4321)]). < 1222177547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10010000011010000111000100001 < 1222177561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes it does now < 1222177565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since big is default < 1222177662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/h1LInl74.html < 1222177693 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to think up a sensible way to calculate 16#1234 mingle 16#4321 < 1222177708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, 0x1234 0x4321 < 1222177717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16# is just the base < 1222177723 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know < 1222177731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all INTERCAL calculators take input in decimal though < 1222177738 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I simply used bash to convert to decimal in the end < 1222177739 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you can do each hex digit pair separately < 1222177748 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1222177755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :39> 16#4321. < 1222177755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17185 < 1222177755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :40> 16#1234. < 1222177755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4660 < 1222177765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C1: Expression is 0x120d0e21 < 1222177770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, or in bash: echo $(( 0x1234 )) < 1222177777 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, I used the bash echo method < 1222177794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :120D0E21 < 1222177795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1222177858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I think my last mingle works now < 1222177880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :42> intercal:select(intercal:mingle(12345, 12345), 58990). < 1222177880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :113 < 1222177887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that was your original one too < 1222177899 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have a go at the other three INTERCAL-72 operators as well if you like, to finish the set < 1222177914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I don't really understand how they work < 1222177934 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, using lowercase letters for bits: < 1222177934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I implemented select from http://esolangs.org/wiki/INTERCAL#Expression_syntax < 1222177986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :V2#abcdefghijklmnop is <> < 1222177989 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where | means bitwise or < 1222177996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and V is intercal's unary OR operator < 1222178000 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the 16-bit version < 1222178017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're overloaded in INTERCAL, there's both the 16-bit version and the 32-bit version, which follow the same pattern < 1222178023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1222178056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so the last bit is used to or the first bit? < 1222178065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222178073 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and placed in the topmost bit of the result < 1222178077 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each bit is used exactly twice < 1222178082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :topmost == last? < 1222178091 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :numbers don't really have first and last bits < 1222178095 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :topmost == most significant < 1222178098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well true < 1222178107 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure which end of the number the most significant bit is at in Erlang < 1222178177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3> <> = <<2#10000000>>. < 1222178180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4> H. < 1222178180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1222178211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so p is unchanged at the end then? < 1222178226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1222178239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah wait indeed < 1222178245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get p|a in the most significant bit and o|p in the least significant < 1222178279 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this should be easy if erlang has ordinary bit operations on bitstrings < 1222178301 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could use a higher order function < 1222178302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, you have bitshift and such on numbers < 1222178316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks on a binary < 1222178317 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm talking about or, and and xor < 1222178350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well exists on integers but not on full binaries < 1222178370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could convert it into a list I guess < 1222178373 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right maybe no use for bitstrings then < 1222178376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it is easy enough < 1222178423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well the bit you extract at the head of the binary is a number < 1222178434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so bxor or such would work on that < 1222178469 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, Irregular Webcomic's presidential election is _really_ improving now < 1222178546 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you just need to rotate, and then use an integer bit operation with the original number < 1222178559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, of course oerjan is an accomplished INTERCAL programmer < 1222178580 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so knows what e's talking about here, yes, that's a good way to describe it < 1222178613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is bit shift but not bit rotate < 1222178632 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is easy to do with bitstrings i presume < 1222178635 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bit rotate's easy enough to implement with bitmasking and shifts < 1222178643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with pattern-matching bitstrings it's still easier < 1222178729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it would be rather inefficient. rotating like that. Erlang got single assignment. but the tail in the binary can still work without copies thanks to it just being a pointer into the binary. < 1222178737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rotating would for various reasons upset that < 1222178754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for more info I suggest reading http://www.erlang.org/doc/efficiency_guide/binaryhandling.html < 1222178757 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh so it's a linked list sort of thing? < 1222178768 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: pointers to single bits of memory are likely to be less efficient than copying a single 32-bit integer < 1222178771 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#ESOTERIC NEWS BULLETIN: Erlang takes over a day to do a trivial task done in other languages in a few minutes even for people who don't understand it, even though it has special data structures for strings of bits and such. < 1222178772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, not a bitstring no, Erlang have Lisp style lists too < 1222178782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using [H|T] syntax < 1222178786 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that efficiency guide is presumably for large binaries < 1222178798 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: there is a wtf here, but you've completely mistaken where it is < 1222178800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm true for that part. < 1222178812 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: either erlang or AnMaster, I'm guessing < 1222178813 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1222178813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I'm not sure what oerjan meant < 1222178816 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why, where is it? < 1222178829 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: AnMaster: pointers to single bits of memory are likely to be less efficient than copying a single 32-bit integer < 1222178842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that is true yes < 1222178850 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's not a wtf with Erlang, it's a wtf due to generalising documentation without thinking about the edge cases < 1222178862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes indeed < 1222178872 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: however - it's taken over a whole day < 1222178880 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to write a function that is what, 10 lines or something now? < 1222178887 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and still doesn't work? even though it's doing something really simple? < 1222178893 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't really make me think well of erlang... < 1222178893 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it took several months to get the C versions of the INTERCAL operators right < 1222178904 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and working efficiently < 1222178909 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: efficiently isn't a goal here < 1222178914 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, Erlang doesn't have a ternary type < 1222178915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, yes it is < 1222178920 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1222178921 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote my c one in like 5 minutes after I clarified everything < 1222178925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed < 1222178930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it'll have to general-case the bases other than 2, just like C-INTERCAL does < 1222179003 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so you think that it's OK for erlang to cause this much hoo-hah over implementing mingle even though it has a special bitstring type thing with pattern matching designed for stuff like this, even though I wrote a C version in 5 minutes (mostly starting doing it manually then realising I could generate it) after getting exactly what it does < 1222179040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: I wrote an Erlang version (with the wrong syntax) in about 3 minutes, and could have fixed it easily < 1222179053 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok what's wrong with rot1(Int) -> <> = <, <> = <, R. if i got the syntax right < 1222179054 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster wanted to use a loop for some reason, I think he's invented a bignum mingle < 1222179057 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, so it's just more "AnMaster is terrible at erlang" < 1222179073 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that looks more or less right, any mistakes in it are due to me not knowing Erlang < 1222179091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes it should work with a few changes for bignum < 1222179139 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what would your definition of rot13(Int) be, by the way? < 1222179181 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just replace 15 and 1 by 13 and 3 or possibly the other way around < 1222179185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and well it works for 16 bit integers sure. :) < 1222179206 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I was actually wondering how much you would redefine the function < 1222179211 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to suit the change in name < 1222179238 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ints are not character strings... < 1222179246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it would be rot13_16 or something, since you operate on 16 bits there < 1222179249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1222179250 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also, i don't know erlang < 1222179255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not necessarily an integer, it's just called Int < 1222179258 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :char* Int; < 1222179260 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sort of thing < 1222179263 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can the part after : be a variable? < 1222179280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, strings are a list of integers. or a binary < 1222179285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both work in output routines < 1222179295 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it can then it would be easy to write a general one < 1222179296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes it can < 1222179390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2> "abcd" =:= [$a, $b, $c, $d]. < 1222179390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1222179435 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erlang doesn't have pattern guards like haskell does it? might be nice for a rot13 function < 1222179460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it have guards < 1222179493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo(A) when is_integer(A) and (A > 100) -> A*A. < 1222179503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not very useful function) < 1222179558 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, now that's neater in Prolog: foo(A,Rv) :- is_integer(A), A > 100, Rv is A*A. < 1222179607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, actually you can use , there iirc, but with and it is more readable IMO < 1222179625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :; for or < 1222179629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :, for and < 1222179632 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prolog uses , for and and ; for or too < 1222179637 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can write out the words < 1222179643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're so common though that nobody ever does < 1222179657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo(A,Rv) if is_integer(A) and A > 100 and Rv is A*A. < 1222179664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just looks like a long run-on sentence, anyway < 1222179668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the symbols are more usual < 1222179684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wouldn't work, iirc that will be (is_integer(A) and A) > 100 < 1222179693 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does in Prolog < 1222179693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which will cause issues since true > 100 makes no sense < 1222179701 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and and or have lower precedences than anything < 1222179726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it does < 1222179758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true is larger than 100, this is defined to make sorting in list with mixed things easier < 1222179762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :number < atom < reference < fun < port < pid < tuple < list < binary < 1222179771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently < 1222179780 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C true is normally less than 100, not always though < 1222179790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, true is an atom < 1222179794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 100 a number < 1222179808 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you can compare strings to integers in C too < 1222179818 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance "true" > 100 is almost certainly true < 1222179821 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a good idea, though < 1222179830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but that will be the first char's value < 1222179836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it won't < 1222179843 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be *"true" > 100 < 1222179855 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's comparing the integral value of the pointer to the number < 1222179864 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are likely to get a warning for that anyway. < 1222179871 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1222179874 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes no sense < 1222179889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, http://rafb.net/p/0OeXKS19.html < 1222179920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- - <-- something went wrong in the paste there < 1222179921 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, so and and or are operators in Erlang < 1222179923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be -- < 1222179928 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're keywords in Prolog < 1222179961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, operators yes, but you can't make a function called or. < 1222179975 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, in Algol 68 you can call a function anything < 1222180008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you may be able to by quoting it, depends on if it treats functions at atom names or as something else < 1222180024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you *can* make atoms that doesn't start with a lower case char < 1222180031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to use single quotes < 1222180045 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in algol 68 you got to choose whether you quoted the keywords or the identifiers or both < 1222180048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'This is a Valid erlang Atom' < 1222180054 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, in Prolog you can have arbitrary atoms too < 1222180063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is kind of confusing, so normally not used < 1222180069 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they use the same syntax as strings for things that don't start with lowercase letters < 1222180078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but atoms and strings are freely coercible so it doesn't matter < 1222180094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the compiler/interp will just pick one depending on which it feels would work better < 1222180100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> atom_to_list('This is a Valid erlang Atom'). < 1222180100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This is a Valid erlang Atom" < 1222180166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(atom_to_list/1 is from the erlang module, which contains BIFs, that is built in functions, some of them are "auto imported" and thus doesn't need the module specifier erlang:) < 1222180298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: do you know of any systems which need cflags set in the environment to be able to compile? < 1222180353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well depends. If I want to compile a 32-bit binary on my 64-bit multilib system then yes < 1222180361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to pass -m32 then < 1222180372 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking about the C-INTERCAL build < 1222180376 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the moment it configures twice < 1222180388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well doesn't automake have some AM_CFLAGS or such if you want to add custom ones? < 1222180391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once with the settings you give, for the stuff it ends up with < 1222180405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and once with a blank environment for the OIL compiler and other things only used during the build < 1222180426 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way cross-compile works, it builds a OIL cross-compiler that runs natively and then cross-compiles everything else < 1222180452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that hurts < 1222180462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in what way? < 1222180468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to think about < 1222180476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems "pretty weird" ;P < 1222180477 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Configure twice, build once, like that old old saying goes. < 1222180487 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: thanks < 1222180538 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://code.eso-std.org/c-intercal/configure.ac, http://code.eso-std.org/c-intercal/buildaux/buildconfig.ac and http://code.eso-std.org/c-intercal/buildaux/Makefile.am, if you're interested in how the build system works at present < 1222180549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I know that need custom LDFLAGS though < 1222180553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that some* < 1222180553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally I think it's more streamlined and nicer to use than even Automake at default < 1222180567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't remember the details but pretty sure I read about that once < 1222180568 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't think Automake even pays attention to LDFLAGS < 1222180573 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dnl Yes, that is a valid email address. If your mailer doesn't support nested < 1222180574 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dnl comments, then get a better mailer. < 1222180576 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if gmail does? < 1222180579 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try. < 1222180624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, dnl is the second most insane idea for making comments work in a language I know, after INTERCAL's < 1222180628 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error < 1222180629 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The email address "ais523" is not recognised. Please fix it and try again. < 1222180654 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boo < 1222180656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should complain < 1222180661 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1222180667 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think its using the comment as a name < 1222180668 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sec < 1222180692 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1222180697 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1222180710 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1222180713 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@oklopol.yok.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1222180809 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, soon tusho.net will be an openid < 1222180832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: what do you think of my build process by the way? < 1222180837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you said <>, so creating a list with p added at the start then taking every pair in it should work or? < 1222180840 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't understand it. < 1222180843 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, it should < 1222180848 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: it's way neater than gcc's < 1222180852 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I looked at theirs < 1222180859 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it claims to be written in autoconf, but it isn't really < 1222180875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses autoconf macros for a few things like options, most of it's written directly in shell script though < 1222180942 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf, someone just claimed http://intertwingly.net/ looks like 1996 :D < 1222181276 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, 1996 was new like ten years ago < 1222181323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, I'm getting more spam in German < 1222181359 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i love that spam < 1222181371 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read it out loud and imagine an old german guy with a moustache and glasses saying it < 1222181373 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is hilarious < 1222181425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4> intercal:unary_or(16#1234). < 1222181425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6974 < 1222181429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does that seem right? < 1222181458 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1222181464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1222181471 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, was that output in decimal? < 1222181481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give the output in hex, then I can try to work it out in my head < 1222181486 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION got this spam in "norwegian" today. i _really_ wonder if spammers actually get hits on this insanely badly translated stuff... < 1222181494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1222181500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what was it, BabelFish norwegian < 1222181508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, 1B3E < 1222181517 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that. < 1222181539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, should be 367C I think < 1222181569 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was worse was it tried to claim to be from the university (some phishing stuff) < 1222181587 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just do it to avoid spam filters < 1222181588 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why phishers are so bad at spelling < 1222181592 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and put the actaul content in an attached image < 1222181598 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would think it would be a bit of a giveaway... < 1222181608 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't just spelling, but horrible grammar too < 1222181611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... idea < 1222181620 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use the images that are attached to spam as CAPTCHAs < 1222181629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way the spammers end up fighting an arms war against each other < 1222181634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, 367C is 1B3E but with an extra 0 bit at the end < 1222181636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1222181676 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: show your code? < 1222181687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a sec < 1222181706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/fvPJUc40.html < 1222181743 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: oh that may be it. i read my mail on nvg through an xterm so i don't see attachments automatically < 1222181744 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what do you mean by taht? < 1222181747 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*that < 1222181765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: spammers obfuscate their attached images to stop anti-spam systems detecting them < 1222181772 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222181778 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you use the spammer's own technology to stop spam < 1222181789 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by either making their CAPTCHAbots detect the anti-spam < 1222181799 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or else having captchas which are too hard for the spammers to crack < 1222181801 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: he means < 1222181805 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine the obfuscated images < 1222181807 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it must be one or the other as it's the same problem from opposite sides < 1222181808 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and put them on websites < 1222181810 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as captchas < 1222181814 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, the website spammers < 1222181818 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will have to break those < 1222181821 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you somehow meant the spammers would directly have to decrypt their own images or something. < 1222181822 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that we can steal the breakage < 1222181823 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to detect their spam < 1222181825 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR < 1222181828 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they won't be able to break it < 1222181829 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no, each other's images < 1222181831 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it comes to the same thing < 1222181832 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and website spam will drop < 1222181832 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but right, as captchas somewhere else < 1222181845 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they're different breeds, is the problem < 1222181847 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :email & website spammers < 1222181851 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your thing can kill the latter < 1222181854 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the former will just keep going < 1222181863 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you think the email spammers would win? < 1222181870 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1222181872 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: when spammers break captchas < 1222181873 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lots of people would like it if you could kill website spam at a stroke < 1222181875 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they never reveal HOW... < 1222181876 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1222181882 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally I think the website spammers would win < 1222181890 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as there's a limit to how ingenious captchas could get < 1222181891 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but you'd have to tell websites things like < 1222181898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, any idea why you want an ending 0 bit there < 1222181902 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ch!ea p via.gra www.cheapviagracialis.inFo < 1222181902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't seem to make sense < 1222181912 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: why not? < 1222181913 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that... is not good user experience, nobody wants to enter that on a website about kittens < 1222181921 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, what's the capital F on the TLD for? < 1222181928 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: avoiding OCR < 1222181934 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: getting the punctuation and spacing and everything right will just annoy the user < 1222181941 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'll just not do it < 1222181953 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'ash3yda7' is about as much as they'lle nter < 1222181963 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you seen how silly some captchas are at the moment? < 1222181966 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that cat-captcha < 1222181967 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222181969 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and people complain < 1222181970 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the time < 1222181973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is probably easier for computers than humans < 1222181977 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rapidshare fixed their cat-captcha < 1222181982 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after people exploded into RAGE < 1222181988 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they weren't the only people using it I think < 1222181990 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat captcha? < 1222181992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it got quite popular once < 1222181993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat-captcha? < 1222182000 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a captcha < 1222182001 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except < 1222182002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION joins oklopol in confusion < 1222182004 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some letters have cats printed on top of them < 1222182005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: AnMaster: lots of distorted letters as usual < 1222182008 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to only enter the ones with cats on them. < 1222182013 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you only type the ones with faint images of cats printed on them < 1222182014 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the cats kind of overlap other letters < 1222182017 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they don't even look like cats. < 1222182018 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they're faint. < 1222182019 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are ones with dogs printed on them instead < 1222182026 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222182027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1222182028 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can't enter them < 1222182033 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they aren't even drawn with lines, just with dots forming a pattern < 1222182036 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much the stupidest thing ever, which is why they fixed it < 1222182049 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps one of vjn's domains should be just about captchas < 1222182058 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ironic thing is that they hardly obfuscated the letters themselves < 1222182060 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda like those puzzles < 1222182068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sort of thing may be too hard for humans < 1222182077 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but... captchas < 1222182079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: as I said, most likely easier for computers than humans < 1222182088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yeha < 1222182088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah* < 1222182106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: as for your unary or, why on earth are you using a loop? < 1222182115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, did you test that unary or on 0x1234 in intercal or? < 1222182117 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes it pretty hard to figure out exactly what's going on < 1222182123 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I did it in my head < 1222182138 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rainman! < 1222182142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what do you suggest using instead? To be usable with bignum < 1222182142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unary or and and are the easiest of the operators to do in one's head < 1222182149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the wrapper isn't bignum < 1222182149 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: bignums don't have a top bit anyway < 1222182153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I plan to extend that < 1222182165 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's kind-of hard to see what the operators would do < 1222182176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I thought top bit set rounded upwards to whole byte :) < 1222182204 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1222182210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if you make that whole pair of bytes it'll be quite similar to INTERCAL's dynamic typing < 1222182220 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the way typing actually works in INTERCAL is that there are two data types < 1222182229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most operators have fixed prototypes < 1222182242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but select returns either 16-bit or 32-bit depending on how many 1 bits are in its rightmost operand < 1222182286 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(N.B. C-INTERCAL doesn't actually do all that, but cheats; there's a case in INTERCAL-72 that messes up in C-INTERCAL by design, as a result, and is far too ingrained to fix) < 1222182339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if you read that file you will see that the "private" functions should work for any binaries. and the wrappers are fixed size < 1222182348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a plan behind that yes < 1222182349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I did < 1222182358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you planning to invent bignum INTERCAL, though? < 1222182379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, remember the ICAL fingerprint Mike Riley made? < 1222182393 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear, did it forget to specify the bitwidths? < 1222182399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, now efunge have bignum cells so... < 1222182406 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: NIETCRLA would have a bignum mode < 1222182416 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(my hypothetical INTERCAL interpreter, see if you can get the name) < 1222182418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I think it assumed fixed size cells < 1222182426 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Pronounced nyet-cur-lah) < 1222182432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: I do, it's one of the possible variants on 64 bit middle-endian < 1222182434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in fact efunge is the only bignum befunge-98 that I know about < 1222182438 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: it's quite a powerful encryption < 1222182443 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: correct < 1222182460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so thus i need bignum versions < 1222182467 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the problem is that many idiomatic INTERCAL expressions only work with fixed-size cells < 1222182508 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : DO .5 <- '?"'&"':2~:5'~'"'?"'?":5~:5"~"#65535$ < 1222182508 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : #65535"'~'#65535$#0'"$#32768'~'#0$#65535'" < 1222182508 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : $"'?":5~:5"~"#65535$#65535"'~'#0$#65535'"' < 1222182508 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "$"':5~:5'~#1"'~#1"$#2'~#3 < 1222182511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well if I did it for cfunge it would end up as 32-bit or 64-bit depending on compile time options. You mean programs won't work then? < 1222182524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: look at all the hardcoded constants in the above < 1222182533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm < 1222182539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's greater-than < 1222182563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the original syslib version < 1222182572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, actually ICAL do seem to specify bitwidth < 1222182578 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I later determined that part of the code was redundant, but everyone had been too confused to work it out) < 1222182596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, however I would like to make bignum versions anyway, bignum intercal would be fun < 1222182600 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is that INTERCAL has 16-bit and 32-bit data types, pretty much no matter what it's working on < 1222182616 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you do make bignum INTERCAL, I suggest that you have a bignum consisting of all 1s < 1222182618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forever < 1222182629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you can mingle with a bignum consisting of all 0s so as to get alternating 1s and 0s < 1222182632 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: NIETCRLA would also have C-INTERCAL and CLC-INTERCAL modes, because I'm crazy like that < 1222182634 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't that be kinda pointless though < 1222182634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that would probably be possible in haskell < 1222182634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1222182640 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yep < 1222182648 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.. I like the name ITRALCEN better < 1222182652 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see if you can work THAT on out... < 1222182654 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*one < 1222182656 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, have one bignum like that < 1222182659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, however erlang doesn't have infinite lists since it wasn't made by mathematicians :P < 1222182665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to be able to do something like that in order to get most expressions to work < 1222182672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, MAX_BIGNUM btw < 1222182689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: you have half the characters backwards, alternating between the two sides < 1222182695 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's simple to make that kind of infinite bignum work < 1222182699 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, just like this < 1222182708 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will have a finite amount of data at any point, and the normalization of representation is simple < 1222182714 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL -> take the first and second letter -> type them -> put the cursor between them -> repeat with rest of strong < 1222182715 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically just cut it into blocks < 1222182725 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leftmost block repeats < 1222182725 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: comes to the same thing, just a differnet way to describe it < 1222182731 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN ITEN ITRCEN ITRALCEN < 1222182733 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes, that would work I think < 1222182746 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: that looks vaguely like the Latin motto for something < 1222182754 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1222182757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1222182758 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just missing a couple more vowels to work visually < 1222182821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9> io:format("~.2B~n", [intercal:unary_or(16#1234)]). < 1222182821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1101100111110 < 1222182821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11> io:format("~.2B~n", [16#367C]). < 1222182821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11011001111100 < 1222182839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so are you sure about that last 0? < 1222182845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222182905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1222182923 0 :ais523!n=ais523@sm01-fap04.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1222182923 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1222182965 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, sorrt about that < 1222182967 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Tue Sep 23 2008] [15:14:05] yes < 1222182969 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Tue Sep 23 2008] [15:14:29] what's unary_or(1) with your implementation < 1222182982 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1222183047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a sec < 1222183050 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, intercal or, (x<<1)|x? < 1222183063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 14> io:format("~.2B~n", [intercal:unary_or(1)]). < 1222183063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10000000000000000000000000000001 < 1222183063 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: pretty much, except it's a rotate not a shift < 1222183073 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: are you rotating in the wrong direction? < 1222183080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be ...0000000011 < 1222183085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah hm < 1222183125 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lambda x:[a|b for a,b in zip(x,x[1:]+x[:1])] < 1222183153 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: using addition for or? < 1222183165 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> (lambda x:[a|b for a,b in zip(x,x[1:]+x[:1])])([1]) < 1222183166 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1] < 1222183175 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i'm using | for or < 1222183197 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought [a|b was the start of a list comprehension < 1222183198 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess it may have looked like a haskell list comprehension < 1222183199 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222183218 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the result of the zip, there < 1222183342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I worked it out by hand and I guess I'm rotating wrong yes < 1222183425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :changing endbit to the other end didn't work hm < 1222183464 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> [((a,b),"==>",zip(a,b)) for a,b in [(lambda r:([r() for i in xrange(10)],[r() for i in xrange(10)]))(lambda:int(__import__("random").random()*50))]] < 1222183464 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[(([5, 17, 0, 21, 30, 46, 11, 34, 21, 13], [35, 37, 12, 26, 28, 45, 5, 21, 0, 38]), '==>', [(5, 35), (17, 37), (0, 12), (21, 26), (30, 28), (46, 45), (11, 5), (34, 21), (21, 0), (13, 38)])] < 1222183472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the *least significant bit* should be used to or the most significant right? < 1222183490 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222183496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the result should be in the most significant < 1222183506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222183513 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the least significant should also be used to or the second-least-significant with the result in the least significant < 1222183522 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes, you were right < 1222183522 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm sure that answered your question in a confusing way < 1222183522 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not me < 1222183537 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I know what zip does < 1222183544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was the [1:] [:1] I was wondering about more < 1222183552 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about whether it was working < 1222183557 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: sorry for giving you wrong advice < 1222183561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you were right all along < 1222183565 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll run it through ick < 1222183569 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or intercalc < 1222183571 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1222183575 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :l[:i] means the list up to i, exclusive, l[i:] means from i up, inclusive < 1222183577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1222183605 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, 1000....00001 for #V1 < 1222183626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1222183629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I remember why unary or is such a pain to use < 1222183634 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check my #1234 too < 1222183645 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's 16#1234 in decimal, again? < 1222183663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4660 < 1222183683 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the answer's 6974 in decimal < 1222183686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that what you got? < 1222183691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway if my or work then it should be trivial for xor and and < 1222183695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry, I cheated and used wimpmode to speed things up a bit) < 1222183706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6974 yes < 1222183714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so it is right all along < 1222183721 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need two wrappers by the way, for 16-bit and 32-bit or < 1222183733 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you look at the length of the bit field to work out which to use, I suppose < 1222183751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well the loop variant works for any given size of binary < 1222183754 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tusho.net/blog/ <- yay pagination works! < 1222183764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I need *two wrappers* is what you mean < 1222183768 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Did you mean tsusho MARY?" < 1222183782 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, that's what I said < 1222183787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1222183810 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Did you mean tsusho MARY?" <- what < 1222183812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I could make a bignum one, just need to find out how large binary is needed < 1222183822 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: I was trying to find the documentation for MKRY < 1222183827 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google didn't know where it was thuogh < 1222183830 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho.net/mkry < 1222183899 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: tip - if you want something I made, tusho.net slash name-of-thing should work well in future :P < 1222183918 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, my blog is the first result for tusho blogs but not tushob log < 1222183919 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*tusho blog < 1222183939 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably Google doesn't know about MKRY because you didn't link it anywhere < 1222183953 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except there should be a link from ircbrowse, but maybe it's nofollowed < 1222183973 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ircbrowse won't link it < 1222183975 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll just have the URL < 1222183987 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'll link to it from my blog < 1222183991 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to index it < 1222183991 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ircbrowse links URLs IIRC < 1222183997 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you like the pagination, by the way? < 1222184012 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there's more than 20 pages (more than 50 posts) it'll be like this: < 1222184015 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, nice and simple < 1222184025 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 ... 457 458 459 460 -> < 1222184104 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://tusho.net/blog/mkry < 1222184108 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google should pick it up sometime or other < 1222184131 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: I so hope you get a comment on that written by some non-#esotericer < 1222184144 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i probably will, but it'll be "lolwut" < 1222184168 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... < 1222184175 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION changes the footer a bit to link to tusho.net < 1222184236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, my last version is http://rafb.net/p/q0Ns9N24.html < 1222184294 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the prediction was correct, i didn't get it. < 1222184294 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you say "32-bit" in your spec for the unaries but mention no bitcount anywhere for them < 1222184303 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :push '.'s? < 1222184316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, look below < 1222184316 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, pushes the ascii value of '.' a few times? < 1222184331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, line 47 < 1222184335 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well just once according to the stack thingie < 1222184347 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, actually there's an ellipsis < 1222184355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the code was common so I abstracted it out :P < 1222184366 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits for the truth to appear < 1222184374 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: its obvious,ehehehehe... < 1222184384 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'd suggest removing the 32-bit restriction from the docs, if you've removed it from the code < 1222184404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I didn't it was just abstracted out into the code at line 47 < 1222184409 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: mikeriley says 'ehehehehehhhhehehehehe' a lot < 1222184411 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and does things like this < 1222184419 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehehehehehehhe,,,,i don't know........ < 1222184420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, didn't,* < 1222184422 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1222184425 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his fingerprints are never well specced < 1222184429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ah, spotted it now < 1222184431 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're always as obscure and hard to understand as MKRY is < 1222184444 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each one pushes 3-15 copies of what they say < 1222184448 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C pushes 3-15 ','s to the stack < 1222184452 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D pushes 3-15 '.'s to the stack < 1222184456 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: i didn't realize it was a joke of some sort :) < 1222184458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, arguably the internal functions should be documented too ;P < 1222184460 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and E pushes 3-15 e/h (randomly chosen each time) to the stack < 1222184470 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it lets you efficiently and easily construct mike riley sentences < 1222184476 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1222184479 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1222184540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw would you say that GCC's error messages for syntax errors often are a bit cryptic and don't point out where the error really is? < 1222184550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes, sometimes they're useful though < 1222184554 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why did you want the spec? do you want to implement an intercal version? < 1222184568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I had: "./intercal.erl:41: syntax error before: '('" < 1222184572 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wanted to remind myself of what it was < 1222184578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I think that is a bit less specific < 1222184589 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah was it mentioned? < 1222184594 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: INTERCAL's error messages are really non-sepcific < 1222184597 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: no, I just remembered it < 1222184600 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1222184601 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1222184605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, true, they are worse < 1222184611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the line number they give is normally the line after the error, but not always < 1222184627 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear... i've sacrificed a bit of lynx usability < 1222184634 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the paginator is all scrunched together with no spaces < 1222184634 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what have you done? < 1222184638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well in erlang's case the errors are mostly not ordered after line numbers < 1222184645 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'll just have to put the spaces back in but wrap them with < 1222184648 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can display:none them < 1222184654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a lot of the time it is the third error or so pointing out where the issue really was < 1222184659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which can be confusing < 1222184676 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this'll be ugly, though... < 1222184676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, since the first few are generally along the lines of "function used not defined" < 1222184710 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1222184768 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb oerjan < 1222184782 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1222184787 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is sure darn ugly :D < 1222184798 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but hey, it works nicely in lynx now < 1222184804 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and isn't exactly unsemantic < 1222184806 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I've seen worse, though; one system I used to program in simply told you if there was an error or not < 1222184808 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are, after all, spaces. < 1222184821 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when there was I used to find its location using binary search and comments < 1222184878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wtf was that system? < 1222184889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some intercal dialect? < 1222184890 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: scripting language for a game < 1222184890 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | huh? < 1222184895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok wtfish < 1222184899 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, good timing optbot < 1222184899 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Probably < 1222185009 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITRALCEN would give detailed, precise and helpful error messages < 1222185017 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more than just about any other compiler out there < 1222185028 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's about as INTERCALLY as the incredibly obscure, unhelpful ones of most INTERCAL compilers, I think < 1222185051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In http://rcfunge98.com/rcsfingers.html#ICAL wtf is the "n" argument to R? < 1222185081 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :number of entries deep to resume < 1222185091 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in INTERCAL you can return from a procedure other than the one you're currently in < 1222185109 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R is equivalent to 1-F1R, if it helps < 1222185112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : more than just about any other compiler out there <-- have you seen clang or icc? They show the code in the errors/warnings and underline the relevant part of the line < 1222185121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know how you would beat that < 1222185127 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: um < 1222185129 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean < 1222185130 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Python? < 1222185136 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :python uses an up arrow on the right spot < 1222185139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, yes I know several other languages do that < 1222185141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or Perl, which uses a ^ underneath? < 1222185142 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's a pretty basic diagnostic... < 1222185143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :javac iirc < 1222185144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too < 1222185145 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah, i would beat that < 1222185148 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's what i said < 1222185149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, how? < 1222185164 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: except you said Python and I said Perl... < 1222185167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :icc sometimes even make suggestions for how to fix iirc < 1222185175 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so does ghc, but its suggestions are useless < 1222185182 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine would use its semantic analysis tools to suggest how to fix < 1222185184 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not just based on the error < 1222185188 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but based on the code and the error < 1222185192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1222185202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would actually be pretty interesting < 1222185207 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, because of the tons of help it gives you it'd probably be more useful to run it as a g ui < 1222185212 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you could expand/contract the warnings & errors < 1222185213 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: it shouldn't need the code at all, it should be able to make the program work correctly from a copy of the sepc < 1222185215 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to avoid a flood of info < 1222185216 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*spec < 1222185223 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hahahah, well no not quite :P < 1222185261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't there languages like that, you tell it what you want to do, and it figures it out < 1222185277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least have been ideas of that < 1222185283 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: arguably Prolog is like that to start with < 1222185291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really you have to know the internals to use it properly, ! < 1222185293 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: declarative ones < 1222185301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm interesting < 1222185316 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITRALCEN is pretty much the other side of intercallyness as opposed to the compilers of today < 1222185339 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: as opposed to typical INTERCAL compilers or typical programming language compilers? < 1222185350 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's precise and helpful and featureful and everything, trying to surpass even conventional languages, and yet the language itself is still very INTERCALLy so it's helping you with tons of detail... to code an awful, awful wreck < 1222185351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, are you going to implement it? < 1222185357 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, sometime < 1222185363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1222185364 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't got all the details sorted out in my head < 1222185367 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: I have plans for something like that too < 1222185367 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd like to first < 1222185370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, fair enough < 1222185371 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :called PRACTICAL < 1222185376 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but that's a different language < 1222185378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Feather! < 1222185381 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you've told me about < 1222185387 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, mine isn't "easy intercal" < 1222185389 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kind of sinister < 1222185393 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's polite, helpful, and all that < 1222185395 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yet it's driving you insane < 1222185404 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's calmly and politely helping you to code *in INTERCAL* < 1222185410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I've had a huge revolutionary idea to revolutionise INTERCAL expressions the same way its flow control is actually really nice < 1222185438 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was also thinking about what a dedicated INTERCAL IDE would be like < 1222185451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I decided it would leave certain features locked until you got enough experience points to be able to use them < 1222185454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, you need some animated icon that pops up bubbles like: "You seem to be writing a hello world program, do you want help?" < 1222185458 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: exactly! < 1222185461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could call it... hmm.... Clippy! < 1222185469 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if ITRALCEN included an IDE it would syntax highlight EVERYTHING < 1222185479 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while you type and move your mouse tooltips would go into excruciating detail < 1222185481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually mine was going to too < 1222185487 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tons of panels to the side letting you analyze and refactor your code < 1222185493 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except syntax highlight not based on syntax < 1222185493 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :full integration with the compiler! project support! < 1222185504 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it'd KILL YOU because it would be so over the top and you WOULD BE WRITING INTERCAL < 1222185510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the highlight instead showed how often you'd used that particular construct < 1222185514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, :D < 1222185520 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for instance if you use a variable a lot its name becomes bright green < 1222185522 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd probably be a more horrifying experience than the bare bones tools for INTERCAL of today < 1222185528 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas it's a dull red if it's the only time you've ever read it < 1222185537 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hah < 1222185547 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: like heat vision for INTERCAL! < 1222185564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trick is that that would actually catch lots of typos < 1222185570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes indeed < 1222185573 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, you could make it just work on character neighbours < 1222185580 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then it would be language agnostic < 1222185596 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of like a Markov chain, but instead of generating nonsense it checks to see how much Markov-sense your code makes < 1222185608 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the whole thing's flourescent green you've cut-and-pasted too much < 1222185620 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, that tool would have saved me several hours on a RL project once < 1222185622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, kate can be set to pop up auto completion based on existing words in the document < 1222185624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works fairly well < 1222185631 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so can every editor ever < 1222185631 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where I accidentally duplicated part of a table of constants < 1222185635 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vim can do that < 1222185637 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VIM! < 1222185644 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does it in one line of vimrc < 1222185644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes and? < 1222185646 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact < 1222185649 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't even have to enable it < 1222185650 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's there by default < 1222185656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone should make a VID which is like vi, but worse < 1222185661 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's a genius idea < 1222185683 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :known as teco? < 1222185690 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not exactly hard < 1222185693 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vi is nice < 1222185695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, actually it may be enabled by default in kate < 1222185696 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes i mean bill joy vi < 1222185780 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, my bad posture is starting to be uncomfortable < 1222185784 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all these years... < 1222185827 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: according to the CotC website you're still supine < 1222185835 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1222185873 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i may need a new chair < 1222186603 0 :kar8ng1!n=kar8nga@m-186.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1222186653 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there may be porn of it, but google definitely does not index it. < 1222186677 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :index what? < 1222186690 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :computer porn < 1222186704 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :human+computer, to be exact < 1222187240 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-085-016-233-006.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1222188232 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1222188933 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you mentioned that dnl was crazy < 1222188936 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it do? < 1222188955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :discards everything up to the next newline, including the newline < 1222188997 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's a cross between comment and line continuation < 1222189002 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you can generate them at runtime < 1222189007 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which can lead to chaos on occasion < 1222189021 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh... < 1222189848 0 :Mony!n=AssHole@AToulouse-258-1-72-160.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1222190004 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1222190031 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plop < 1222190135 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Mony < 1222190419 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1222190435 0 :ais523!n=ais523@sm01-fap04.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1222190435 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1222190694 0 :CO2Games!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"And I invented doors, no joke!" < 1222190894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CO2Games: no you didn't < 1222192384 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CoE: CO2Games did not invent doors. < 1222192630 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1222192949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes I wonder about dnl, # comments work in configure.ac too < 1222192966 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: # is even weirder in m4 < 1222192972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? < 1222192974 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it echos everything from the # to the end of the line into the output < 1222192978 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without interpreting any of it < 1222192984 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so # comment dnl comment 2 < 1222192991 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually copies # comment dnl comment 2 into the output < 1222192992 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray! < 1222192996 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tusho.net/ is now an openID < 1222192998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh < 1222193018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even people who like m4 more or less outright admit it's an esolang < 1222193025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well that will result in a bash comment < 1222193033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I'd say so < 1222193039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yet GNU use it? < 1222193046 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only for autoconf < 1222193048 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1222193071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, true, but why? < 1222193092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why m4? < 1222193094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :history I think < 1222193099 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :autoconf used to be all written in sh < 1222193107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1222193111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to maintain < 1222193118 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, exactly < 1222193128 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they used m4 to automate the process of generating configure scripts < 1222193137 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it's apparently simple to start with < 1222193149 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a case of writing substitutions for each command < 1222193165 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a lot of depth to it though, in that over time you discover increasingly weird ways to abuse its evaluation engine < 1222193183 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and power m4 users sort of actively encourage that sort of thing < 1222193185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes I wrote a few autoconf macros myself < 1222193188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :horrible < 1222193201 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be to someone with your personality, I imagine < 1222193221 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :m4 sounds lovely < 1222193226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that supposed to mean? < 1222193234 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you only like boring, sane things < 1222193245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: different people have different styles < 1222193262 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you tend towards things which are relatively sane and work more or less the same way each time < 1222193273 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as a result your programs tend to be saner than most of the people's here < 1222193279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, yet I code befunge? < 1222193283 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably tusho thinks this is a bad thing < 1222193294 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, befunge is sane for an esolang < 1222193299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clever but sane < 1222193299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah < 1222193301 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah befunge is pretty pedestrian < 1222193347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and I would like Feather if you ever got it done ;P < 1222193359 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure? < 1222193364 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have headaches just thinking about it < 1222193368 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably that's why I never get it done < 1222193372 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah AnMaster thinks he likes feather < 1222193377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's brilliantly elegant despite the headaches, though < 1222193383 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i suspect he'd ravage every single part of it if it was actaully made < 1222193417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I like thinking about the weird parts of core funge < 1222193419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like k over k < 1222193421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and such < 1222193433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the edge cases *are* fun < 1222193439 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: in m4 those sorts of interactions are what you do to actually run programs, normally < 1222193465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, (ab)using edge cases? < 1222193475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222193478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1222193481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I don't think it's abuse so much in this case < 1222193501 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there are tricks involving dynamically changing the syntax of the language to do stuff, but they tend to be looked down upon < 1222193517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, my autoconf macros didn't really use edge cases < 1222193531 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray, pavatar works too! < 1222193540 0 :olsner!n=salparot@79.136.60.96 JOIN :#esoteric < 1222193541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and well Feather would change the language < 1222193542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the point < 1222193555 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feather would change everything < 1222193561 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.pavatar.com/check?hp=http%3A%2F%2Ftusho.net%2F <-- it wurkz < 1222193565 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from its own point of view it can change the universe < 1222193567 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits for someone to ask what that is, they always do < 1222193572 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I suspect the universe could have other ideas < 1222193582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, could you even make any meaningful programs in Feather without changing the language? < 1222193626 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, quite probably < 1222193641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally speaking you don't change the language as such but add features to it < 1222193641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that wouldn't be fun of course < 1222193647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah hm < 1222193650 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you should make all the core primitives modify the actual language, by changing the expression you're evaluating into its result < 1222193654 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then EVERYTHING would modify it < 1222193663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those features seamlessly interoperate with the other features that other libraries had added < 1222193682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way, for instance, you can load a debugger after the fact, and then step through the code up to the point you're at at the moment < 1222193688 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of like JIT debugging but even crazier < 1222193693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well how can you add features that require external communication? that is not included in "turing complete". For example file io, calling external code. or whatever < 1222193719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I may be wrong since you failed to explain how feather actually works ;P < 1222193726 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been thinking a lot about that < 1222193734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hello world program in feather please? < 1222193747 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I can't write anything in Feather yet, not even a NOP, really < 1222193753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm < 1222193773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but output would ideally have to be rewound as you went back and redone as you went forwards < 1222193775 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably cached < 1222193780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what language do you plan to implement feather in? or the boot strap feather in < 1222193793 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm not sure, I was discussing this with tusho a while back < 1222193802 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: perhaps squeak < 1222193804 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just for the irony < 1222193807 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably eventually C but I want to start with something functional < 1222193808 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or non-irony < 1222193808 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1222193841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :functional should be easier < 1222193851 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlambda has all the right features, actually, but is a pain to program in] < 1222193861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if I know the language (and/or plan to learn it, like scheme (which I plan to learn when I get time)) I could probably help with parts that need to be done < 1222193886 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes down: Fork Feather at nearest oppertunity < 1222193908 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the main problems with Feather is I feel it needs an interp before it can be properly specced < 1222193918 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to see what's impossible and what's merely implausible < 1222193921 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :implausible I can do, sometimes < 1222193923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand < 1222193962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what are the features you need of unlambda? < 1222193974 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very first-class functions, call/cc < 1222193975 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's about it < 1222193994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and that kind of prevents a lot of the IO stuff < 1222193996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some sane and preferably extensible way to interface with the user would be nice, too < 1222194000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, scheme or some other lisp maybe then? < 1222194012 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also ideally call/cc should rewind output < 1222194023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, Scheme is near the top of my list of potential languages for this atm < 1222194067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, rewind output could be hard, what if the output is sent to something like a printer? < 1222194076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very common these days ;P < 1222194094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my intended semantics are to just do nothing if output is rewound and then the same output is reoutput < 1222194106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if the output is rewound and different output comes out, just print the new output < 1222194123 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'll be closest to what the user expects, I think < 1222194203 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :feather should clearly be written in Coq or Agda < 1222194219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh btw didn't you ask some time ago about languages that can seralize functions? And that unlambda was one of them < 1222194228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was that someone else < 1222194239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Underlambda is defined to be able to serialise functions < 1222194239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can scheme do it? < 1222194247 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... interesting < 1222194256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no technical reason why not but it might be inefficient < 1222194261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, erlang can seralise functions < 1222194275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly if you're using the Lisp method of storing in a list and using eval to call, it's trivial < 1222194276 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it could compile to Parrot < 1222194279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact it is used internally in between distributed erlang nodes < 1222194281 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however lambdas tend to be better < 1222194292 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: is that a genuine language yet? < 1222194299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 4> term_to_binary(F). < 1222194299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<<131,112,0,0,3,129,1,213,76,172,89...>> < 1222194302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where F is a fun < 1222194321 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably the resulting serialisation doesn't mean anything to anyone but Erlang? < 1222194352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed. Erlang of same major release even < 1222194371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which happens every few years or so iirc < 1222194371 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's enough for Underlambda, anyway < 1222194383 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably it can deserialise the result back into a function again < 1222194391 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no idea < 1222194414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Underlambda's great in that you can merely serialise a continuation if you happen to want to save an image) < 1222194579 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lazy Bird perhaps? although it may not have continuations < 1222194600 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :continuations are very very important to the way I plan to implement Feather < 1222194624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact I was thinking about writing my own language in C, merely implemented to optimise continuations for the unusual use they'll see in a Feather program < 1222194749 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lazy Bird doesn't have continuation. < 1222194775 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I can't think of a way to do it. < 1222194792 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mainly because I still don't know what it is < 1222194801 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah2: Does it have c? < 1222194804 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1222194811 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then not unless you do CPS. < 1222194815 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CPS? < 1222194832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah2: it basically involves never ever returning from a function < 1222194837 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: parrot is the perl6 VM. < 1222194847 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE FUNCTION OF NO RETURN < 1222194847 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead you give a function pointer as an argument saying where to transfer control after the function runs < 1222194851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : presumably it can deserialise the result back into a function again < 1222194852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222194855 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you get rid of the call stack < 1222194859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming it is a fun() style fun < 1222194859 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you don't need it < 1222194870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is a MFA style fun it is just a reference < 1222194882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MFA style fun = fun mymodule:myfunc/2 < 1222194883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1222194894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is more or less like a C function pointer < 1222194905 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: by the way, do you have any idea how to make scp -r handle deletes too? < 1222194917 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not off the top of my head < 1222194922 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scp is likely the wrong tool to be using < 1222194930 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what should i use instead, then? < 1222194935 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could delete the entire tree at the other end then scp < 1222194942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would come to the same thing < 1222194943 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1222194956 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is that ouch, you're overwriting all the files over there anyway < 1222194961 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1222194965 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's /why/ it's the wrong tool to be using) < 1222194965 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does rsync do deletes? < 1222194969 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1222194979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of my friends uses svn for that purpose, strangely enough < 1222195008 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhat of a subversion < 1222195051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, it does if you give it the right command line option < 1222195060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--delete iirc < 1222195072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it removes files that doesn't exist on the target side < 1222195075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and heh oerjan < 1222195085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err which doesn't exist on source side* < 1222195089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blergh < 1222195112 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets an evil idea - make his homepage FOAF instead of HTML and use an xml stylesheet to show it to browsers - like http://hublog.hubmed.org/foaf.xml < 1222195116 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does evil idea < 1222195143 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foaf? < 1222195162 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :File Ond af file? < 1222195204 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.foaf-project.org/ < 1222195209 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :person metadata & relationship thing < 1222195227 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hublog.hubmed.org/foaf.xml is a foaf file < 1222195272 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :essentially, if I do that, tusho.net will be the most semantic homepage evar < 1222195292 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have YADIS directing to my openid, a Pavatar header, ... < 1222195338 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: OpenSearch? < 1222195350 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no search on my site, though I might add it to my blahg < 1222195373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about microformats? < 1222195395 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: unneeded, microformats are for HTML, all the info will be in the FOAF profile < 1222195405 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since tusho.net is just going to be my identity page < 1222195411 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no microformats on tusho.net < 1222195413 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1222195415 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no microformats on tusho.net/blog < 1222195418 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't see any that i could use < 1222195563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: unneeded, microformats are for HTML, all the info will be in the FOAF profile no microformats on tusho.net/blog <-- that is because it is html there will be no microformats? < 1222195572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"" < 1222195587 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "*tusho gets an evil idea - make his homepage FOAF instead of HTML and use an xml stylesheet to show it to browsers - like http://hublog.hubmed.org/foaf.xml" < 1222195590 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ideas do not apply themself immediately. < 1222195593 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*themselves < 1222195637 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION learns foaf < 1222195755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1222196322 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hooray < 1222196325 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#foaf are helpful < 1222196329 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so: almost all done < 1222196330 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1222196344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite rare to get helpful channels nowadays for some reason < 1222196346 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222196357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the ones I'm in tend to be helpful < 1222196362 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably why I stick around in them < 1222196369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even #esoteric is helpful sometimes < 1222196375 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, RDF and FOAF are both good usecases of XML, and also very easy to use < 1222196379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot can give some amazing advice < 1222196381 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i think is excellent < 1222196386 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it isn't here right < 1222196387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now < 1222196391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to ask optbot instead. < 1222196392 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes. this is church numeral stuff. < 1222196519 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot's secrets are revealed at last! < 1222196519 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: Why isn't ` apply? :-P < 1222196593 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to figure out how to use foaf:based_near < 1222196593 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously optbot isn't written in Unlambda, then < 1222196593 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the thing you told Deewiant < 1222196719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes I tend to ask programming questions in esoteric < 1222196728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because no one asks: "why to you need that" < 1222196732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1222196740 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sometimes we do < 1222196744 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but normally afterwards < 1222196751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes < 1222196752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and out of curiosity rather than pointing you to a better way < 1222196764 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if there is a better way, we'll let you decide if you want to use it < 1222196765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course because the whole point is doing it in weird ways < 1222196794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I still like the idea of bignum intercal but I don't think I would be able to implement it < 1222196795 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I came here and said "I'm writing a machine-code program, but I want all the characters in it to be printable", nobody would bat an eyelid < 1222196801 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-028-216.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1222196808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed < 1222196827 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes I have done that < 1222196841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the concept of a self uu-decoding application < 1222196852 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to distribute uudecode over Usenet to people who don't have it < 1222196856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1222196860 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only a DOS version though, I don't think you can do that in ELF < 1222196869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, can't they access ftp? < 1222196875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almsot certainly < 1222196886 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but again, why care if there are better ways? < 1222196896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almsot? typo for almsort? < 1222196897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1222196919 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for almost < 1222196935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1222196949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the point is to try to figure out what almsort would be! < 1222196966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(iirc that was how befunge was created, befunge being a typo) < 1222196990 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a typo for what? < 1222197033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The word "Befunge" started life as a typographical error for the word "before", typed by Curtis Coleman at 4AM on a BBS chat system." < 1222197040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Befunge#Etymology < 1222197043 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that always confused me < 1222197048 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's apparently typo < 1222197058 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but befunge and before are pretty different to type < 1222197070 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compare ung and or < 1222197074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, dvorak? (not sure if that matters= < 1222197075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1222197080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it was a non-QWERTY keyboard? < 1222197084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, would you say = was an easy typo for ) and ? < 1222197090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is* < 1222197097 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not on this keyboard < 1222197104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, on a Swedish keyboard it is < 1222197114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := is two keys away from ) and doesn't need shift on a UK layout < 1222197123 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes, I think it must be some non-UK/US layout < 1222197146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shift: !"#¤%&/()=? < 1222197147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Normal: 1234567890+ < 1222197172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see how that is easy to typo on a Swedish keyboard < 1222197200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!"£$%^&*()_+ < 1222197205 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :top row on a UK keyboard, with shift < 1222197215 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~!@£$%^&*()_+ < 1222197225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :US keyboards are !@#$%^&*()_+ IIRC < 1222197234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if you include the first char before 1 then it is < 1222197238 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dvorak doesn't look very plausible for before -> befunge either < 1222197239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :§ < 1222197241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and shifted < 1222197242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :½ < 1222197245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :¬ is shift-backquote for me < 1222197246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird one < 1222197251 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and backquote's to the left of 1 < 1222197269 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it isn't even in ASCII (nor is £ for that matter but I can understand why that's on a UK keyboard) < 1222197283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:KB_Sweden.svg < 1222197300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh and back quote is ` you mean? < 1222197304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a dead key < 1222197306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222197306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and shifted < 1222197311 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a live key here < 1222197312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :````` < 1222197317 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comes in useful when typing Unlambda programs < 1222197328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well don't do that on Swedish keyboard then < 1222197338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, see the link I posted < 1222197343 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have done < 1222197343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty bad for programming really < 1222197350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with altgr-7 { < 1222197358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most programming languages are US/UK-keyboard-centric < 1222197364 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although APL needed a keyboard of its own IIRC < 1222197370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1222197375 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The Finnish keyboard is identical to the Swedish one, just to add one more point of data.) < 1222197376 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what is the http header to tell a browser to display the file, not download it? < 1222197381 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. for xml with a stylesheet < 1222197385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, erlang works pretty well, a few uses for altgr only < 1222197387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1222197388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like $ < 1222197393 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I've made my dead keys undead. < 1222197395 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although IIRC it's different in IE for no apparent reason < 1222197398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and tuples {} < 1222197402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not all the blocks :) < 1222197426 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it content-disposition? < 1222197435 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be < 1222197438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, application/xml+xhtml iirc? < 1222197439 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although isn't that for MIME type? < 1222197440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait xml < 1222197442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not xhtml < 1222197443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1222197447 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, no, you misunderstand < 1222197447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :text/xml maybe then? < 1222197460 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :safari & firefox etc see "application/xrds+xml" and think "lolwut? best download" < 1222197465 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to keep that mime type - it is correct < 1222197468 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but tell the browser to display it < 1222197474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1222197476 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Content-disposition: is at least the one people use to do "forcedly download this file instead of displaying", so I guess it could work the other way around too. < 1222197478 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1222197480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe content-disposition is the mime type browsers think it ought to be < 1222197484 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Content-Disposition: inline < 1222197488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, got some example site where it works? < 1222197492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1222197493 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that looks good < 1222197495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, useful one < 1222197502 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and "Content-Disposition: attachment" for the "download it you stupef browser" one. < 1222197505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I wonder how to set that in lighttpd config < 1222197514 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: stupef < 1222197514 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1222197525 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Muphry's Law! < 1222197528 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, what happens if you put a META HTTP-Equiv in an HTML file saying it isn't actually HTML after all? < 1222197550 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beh. Despite Content-Disposition: inline, my browser insists that downloading it is a good idea. < 1222197561 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1222197561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, logically it should cause an infinite loop < 1222197568 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't being set < 1222197569 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1222197575 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no < 1222197585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, since it will not read the HTTP-Equiv since it isn't html < 1222197593 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :

hello world

< 1222197597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it will see that it is html from the server headers < 1222197597 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should display the source in text/plain < 1222197605 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I know my http & html specs correctly < 1222197608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it will see that it really was < 1222197609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1222197614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, well that is boring < 1222197619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and non-logical < 1222197619 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: you so have to try that now < 1222197622 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, it's logical < 1222197624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a real webserver < 1222197627 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you determine content type by: < 1222197630 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. check header < 1222197636 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. if header says html, check html head < 1222197641 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3. if the head mentions something, it's actually that < 1222197642 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4. use that < 1222197650 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how you can use value=application/xhtml+xml < 1222197654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, on 3 *it should backtrack to 1* < 1222197655 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though your server says text/html < 1222197656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bet you it doesn't actually work in practice with text/plain < 1222197664 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: then you couldn't use Content-Type _at all_ < 1222197668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no actual money, though < 1222197673 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I'm not certain < 1222197683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, um I set my webserver to serve them as application/xhtml+xml... if the extension is .xhtml < 1222197683 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Header onsuccess set Content-Disposition inline < 1222197686 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely that should work... < 1222197692 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not everyone controls their host < 1222197703 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but is it at least genuine monopoly money? < 1222197704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, php then header(). < 1222197709 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA < 1222197716 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION kicks AnMaster < 1222197719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming you can run php < 1222197725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used that trick a few times < 1222197726 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course I can. Will I unless needed? No,. < 1222197731 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus, it works for other headers. < 1222197745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, well of course, and you could actually use ruby or whatever instead < 1222197755 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or I could use .htaccess, because this works:Header onsuccess set X-Pavatar http://tusho.net/avatar < 1222197761 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and therefore so should this:Header onsuccess set Content-Disposition inline < 1222197764 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least Firefox still renders the page "

foo

< 1222197766 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I should fix the problem, whatever it is. < 1222197767 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" as HTML. < 1222197772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, interesting < 1222197775 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Report a bug :P < 1222197783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I think fizzie's results may be right < 1222197792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some things which can't be set in an http-equiv < 1222197807 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :content-type with arbitrary values seems to be a good candidate for that treatment < 1222197824 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can do http-equiv=content-type, value=text/html; charset=foo. < 1222197831 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, http://www.w3.org/RDF/Validator/ARPServlet.tmp/servlet_34128.png is pretty. < 1222197838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed < 1222197884 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I was born at an early age"? < 1222197897 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH DUH < 1222197899 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1222197900 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1222197908 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot to sync the .htaccess, hah < 1222197912 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The HTML spec is pretty vague about metadata. For HTML 4.01, "User agents are not required to support meta data mechanisms. For those that choose to support meta data, this specification does not define how meta data should be interpreted." < 1222197927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, for xhtml? < 1222197929 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: [citation needed] < 1222197934 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: :D < 1222197960 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah < 1222197961 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Content-Disposition: inline < 1222197962 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it still downloads < 1222197975 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you should at least link it < 1222197985 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Template:Fact citation needed] < 1222197994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, "Warning: implode() [function.implode]: Bad arguments. in /home/tusho/www/tusho.net/id/MyID.php on line 1569" < 1222198013 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: What did you do? < 1222198016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, oh and http://tusho.net/id/ gives a directory index < 1222198027 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah fuck. < 1222198029 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What went wrong now... < 1222198031 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1222198032 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duh. < 1222198034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, http://tusho.net/id/ gives a directory index, it was listed in that image. so I clicked in MyID.php < 1222198039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, then I got that message < 1222198040 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes okay, shut up, I'm fixing it < 1222198051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... it seems now they have a page [[w:Wikipedia:Citation needed]] to link people to < 1222198057 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hmm... it seems now they have a page http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Special:Search?go=Go&search=Wikipedia:Citation_needed to link people to < 1222198078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why doing it through search? < 1222198080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with an xkcd comic < 1222198087 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: my client does that automatically < 1222198088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also I seen that before < 1222198105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean wikipedia using it on that page < 1222198109 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1222198137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tusho.net/id/ -> "Internal Server Error" < 1222198138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun tusho ! < 1222198147 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXTERNAL SERVER ERROR < 1222198151 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Hi. Which part of "Shut up, I'm fixing it" did you not understand? Love, tusho. < 1222198168 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Love? Between you and AnMaster? < 1222198175 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Sarcasm, more like. < 1222198181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is a bad citation < 1222198183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the real one was < 1222198186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : yes okay, shut up, I'm fixing it < 1222198191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, and it was a different problem :P < 1222198201 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. Same problem. < 1222198203 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a problem in the fix. < 1222198228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"phpMyID is NOT compatible with Suhosin or other hardened PHP systems (Debian users take note)." <-- wtf, I wouldn't run php without Suhosin on a server < 1222198242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does Suhosin do? < 1222198258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, http://www.hardened-php.net/suhosin/ < 1222198301 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it works fine with suhoshin. < 1222198311 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, if you read, it tells you why < 1222198316 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suhoshin disables a core feature that is needed to do openid < 1222198318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, their site has a dotted underscore on every instance of "PHP" which pops up a tooltip saying "Hypertext Preprocessor" < 1222198365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, for SQL and URL too < 1222198367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1222198393 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't really the repetition that got me so much, but the fact that the tooltip is wrong < 1222198422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what does PHP stand for then? < 1222198441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it may be "PHP Hypertext Preprocessor" nowadays, not sure though < 1222198452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it used to be? < 1222198457 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personal Home Page < 1222198461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1222198477 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"PHP: Hypertext Preprocessor" according to Wikipedia < 1222198479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm almost right < 1222198524 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Can't really find much from the XHTML spec either -- I mean, the legal syntax is there, but it doesn't seem to say much about the semantics of meta. < 1222198538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1222198590 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In contrast, HTML 5 draft does specify that if there is a http-equiv="content-type" thing, it must consist (case-insensitively) of the literal string "text/html;", then optional spaces and "charset=encoding"; it can't be used to change the type to something non-HTML. < 1222198612 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well obviously, if it isn't HTML it doesn't conform to the HTML 5 spec < 1222198647 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think of it this way: would it make sense to specify in the spec for INTERCAL, say, "If an INTERCAL program contains the string BLUE HAIR NOW, it is actually not an INTERCAL program"? < 1222198667 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Definitely. < 1222198681 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the spec would then be contradicting itself < 1222198686 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's a nice almost-paradoxy thing that should optimally cause something more interesting than just working the way common sense says it does. < 1222198744 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is perfectly appropriate for an INTERCAL spec, within limits. < 1222198775 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... retrograde comments would be really useful < 1222198785 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which allow you to comment backwards to the start of the program < 1222198792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can put anything you like before them < 1222198797 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last one in a program is the only one that counts < 1222198805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the others are commented out < 1222198867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err, parsing would be painful :/ < 1222198874 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1222198881 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scan backwards for the first comment delimiter you find < 1222198885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then discard everything before that < 1222198888 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a preprocessing phase < 1222198895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah hm < 1222198987 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that leaves only the question of keyword. i suggest EXTERMINATE < 1222199128 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with optional hyphens < 1222199217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if this channel what DnD what alignments would you say the different people here have? < 1222199223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/what/was/ < 1222199237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for the first occurrence) < 1222199258 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually by default it will replace the first occurrence only since you didn't add the 'g' modifier. < 1222199266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the first appearance by default, you have to do something like s/^(.*)what/$1was/ to get the second < 1222199277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed, but I wanted to be extra clear < 1222199323 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: < 1222199323 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KingOfKarlsruhe: 'if' is a function < 1222199345 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: in lua? < 1222199345 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: except copy-on-write, but that just delays the blit < 1222199359 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... that was probably me who said that < 1222199363 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when discussing how fork() works < 1222199367 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: your wisdom is beyond compare < 1222199368 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you could not infect OpenBSD boxes with it, though < 1222199384 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, that combination makes sense < 1222199389 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: you only run on Linux then? < 1222199390 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: also the world's best imperative language. < 1222199399 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1222199402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is obviously C < 1222199405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs < 1222199411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenBSD is secure against everything, even optbot's wisdom < 1222199411 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: lament < 1222199421 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: anything to add to this? < 1222199422 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: its only as difficult as it might be that i only just learned it < 1222199455 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot is definitely chaotic here < 1222199457 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: fnord fizzie damned if i know < 1222199478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: but are you good or evil? < 1222199479 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fnord these fnord i learned the term. people usually don't stop. < 1222199506 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Or neutral? < 1222199507 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: every language an fsa recognizes can easily be poked to change their habits, even in fnord stores. < 1222199522 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think we have many fnord stores around here. :/ < 1222199538 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses the evil word (albeit defectively), the answer should be obvious. < 1222199549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you should so fill up fungot with logs from #nethack < 1222199550 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: of course, but i < 1222199567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: "Warning: implode() [function.implode]: Bad arguments. in /home/tusho/www/tusho.net/id/MyID.php on line 1569" still < 1222199579 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Hmm, maybe I should also be there too if it's that good. < 1222199579 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: don't load that page then, it's an internal page, so shut up < 1222199579 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: is 'if' a function ? < 1222199580 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KingOfKarlsruhe: chicken has something like that < 1222199582 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not linked anywhere < 1222199585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, ah ok < 1222199594 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tusho.net/id/ is my OpenID. < 1222199605 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MyID.php is phpMyID, an OpenID implementation. < 1222199613 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're accessing it directly so it's not getting the config < 1222199628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: what username and password should I put in there? < 1222199632 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: mine. < 1222199640 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't know it, well, why are you trying to log in as me? < 1222199645 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1222199649 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's a login just for you < 1222199666 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I put tusho.net in an OpenID box, it gets, from the headers, a link to http://tusho.net/yadis < 1222199669 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: wasps < 1222199669 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: let's go start a flamewar to cure your boredom), < 1222199672 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which contains a link to http://tusho.net/id/ < 1222199684 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it uses that as my openid server < 1222199689 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's how i can login as tusho.net < 1222199729 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: YOU ARE A RUBBISH BOT! HAH! EAT FLAMES,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,eheheheh... < 1222199730 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: has scheme only 26 levels of recursion < 1222199749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I doubt it < 1222199749 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: LIES < 1222199749 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: feel free to type the slash. < 1222199750 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i dont know < 1222199758 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I doubt it/ < 1222199759 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why don't you try it out with some language settings might convert ( quote red) < 1222199797 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tusho.net/ < 1222199806 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ an xml file rendered via xsl generating html < 1222199818 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: a box has in the vicinity of London subway stations like a banana < 1222199818 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no ignorance at all, really < 1222199820 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hoorah for advanced semantic web technology < 1222199889 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: is your web page sentient yet? < 1222199894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, btw I think we all are more or less chaotic in here, or we wouldn't like esolangs ;P < 1222199900 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, but approaching it < 1222200087 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're all chaotic by AnMaster's standards, but AnMaster is positively lawful compared to most of us < 1222200100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I say you are lawful in certain ways < 1222200104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely < 1222200105 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"À vaincre sans péril on triomphe sans gloire..." < 1222200109 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, agreed < 1222200117 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty lawful in some ways and chaotic in others < 1222200120 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably everyone is < 1222200123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1222200203 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tusho.net/ now looks pretty cool, too! < 1222200219 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now just to add my IM accounts and i'm done < 1222200234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, does the openid have to be an url? < 1222200241 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222200248 0 :ais523_!n=ais523@sm01-fap04.bham.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1222200248 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523_ < 1222200250 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an http uri < 1222200259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, ah no uri then? < 1222200276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://openid.net/get/ says "URI" under "Roll Your Own" < 1222200287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1222200289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1222200301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, I want urn: OpenID ;) < 1222200301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1222200313 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http:// uris are uris < 1222200315 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it is a URI < 1222200318 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just has other constraints too < 1222200322 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, it couldn't validate urn: openids < 1222200324 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is it has to communicate < 1222200328 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that it can validate that you are you < 1222200339 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(specifically, that you own the openid you entered) < 1222200728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, what happens if you ever change domain? < 1222200736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will that block the accounts you have? < 1222200742 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes. < 1222200743 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't. < 1222200743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer normal username and password then < 1222200755 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything expires. < 1222200760 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Username and password are no more durable. < 1222200762 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also. < 1222200767 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your OpenID doesn't have to be in the same place. < 1222200767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, yes they are < 1222200774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, hm? < 1222200779 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can change as long as the URI containing the pointer to it stays the same. < 1222200781 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I set my PGP key to a two-year expiry < 1222200788 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I don't expect to control my email address beyond then < 1222200797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, yes I have 3 years < 1222200803 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could switch from a livejournal ID, say, to myopenid.com, to a self-hosted one < 1222200805 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and keep the same URI < 1222200811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then I will add a new id and revoke the old id, on the same key < 1222200813 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as that URI stays up < 1222200815 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as you change the location it points to as a openid < 1222200819 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: most services let you do that < 1222200824 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you login with an openid and create an account < 1222200830 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :later, you can associate a different openid with that < 1222200834 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then login with that instead < 1222200835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, hm... < 1222200845 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Accounts on each servers, but only one login. < 1222200858 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly, it'd be a hassle to change them all, but hopefully that URI doesn't change often enough for that to be a problem... < 1222200865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, what about fallback login with user/pass < 1222200870 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1222200879 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although yes, most services allow that too. < 1222200890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, because I think I will control my user/pass way better than a openid < 1222200895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an openid can change < 1222200902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a domain get sold < 1222200903 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? It's all your obligation. < 1222200904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1222200910 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A domain gets sold if you let it expire yourself. < 1222200921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, I may not have the money < 1222200927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at some point < 1222200931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows < 1222200932 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Fine, so switch your openid on things just before the domain expires. < 1222200945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, no I just prefer normal user/pass < 1222200951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a nice idea yes, but.. < 1222200954 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahh. "It's better because it's better." < 1222200963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, eh? < 1222200968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do like the openid idea < 1222200969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222200973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it have some flaws < 1222200979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the one I mentioned < 1222200983 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the ones you're mentioning, though. < 1222200996 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523 < 1222200998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, it is *one* of the flaws < 1222201007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, involving a third party is another < 1222201018 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Third parties are not involved. < 1222201028 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only if you explicitly do so by using an openid host. < 1222201042 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notice: Undefined variable: commenter_portrait_url in user/themes/tusho-blogs-2/post.php line 52 < 1222201047 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Aware. < 1222201049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, yes but the majority of the users don't have their own servers or their own domains < 1222201060 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: So then they have to use a third-party, just like they would have to for any service. < 1222201089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, not if the site they want to login on uses user/pass < 1222201098 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes - the third party is the site. < 1222201106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, no that is the second party < 1222201113 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a year ago reddit's database got hacked. < 1222201118 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turns out they stored passwords in plaintext. < 1222201122 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So everybody's password was stolen. < 1222201129 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They did it so they could offer a 'forgotten your password' feature. < 1222201129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, well that would affect *one* site < 1222201136 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes, third parties are more trustable than second parties. < 1222201155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, and forgotten your password should reset pass to a random string < 1222201159 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know i'd trust an established openid host by the company that created openid and is endorsed by tons of people & organizations < 1222201167 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :over some random site I want to use. < 1222201187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, a company can go bankrupt < 1222201197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or have server issues and be down when you need to login < 1222201199 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything can fail. < 1222201205 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a question of what fails the least. < 1222201212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while user/pass just depends on the site you want to login on < 1222201221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it won't block logging in on other sites < 1222201266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much less damage done < 1222201277 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am too busy to continue this, as always I'll point you to #openid for further discussion. < 1222201290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, a hacked password affects *one* site < 1222201298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always use different passwords for different sites < 1222201299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always < 1222201305 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#openid < 1222201317 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there was that big controversy in the US recently where someone 'hacked' Sarah Palin's email, by guessing the answer to her password reset question IIRC < 1222201320 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I just looove it when AnMaster does something in direct ignorance of my last message one message after) < 1222201332 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It was a guy from /b/, incidentally. < 1222201337 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I'm not surprised < 1222201348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes but it would not affect all her other services. Only her email < 1222201361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, while with openid it would allow access to *many* services < 1222201371 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... OTOH, OpenID would prevent there being easily guessable reset questions in the first place < 1222201379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's all a matter of balances everywhere < 1222201386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, reset option shouldn't be easy < 1222201401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but it was < 1222201429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should require sending to your email which I admit is hard for an email account, but then I suggest a phone call is needed from the isp to the customer to reset pass for that < 1222201434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the only sane way for email < 1222201463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not voip phone but real landline phone < 1222201494 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that'd fuck me over a few years ago, then < 1222201500 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, i agreed to being 13 or over... < 1222201514 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i was incredibly shy (even more so than now) and, er, my voice was obviously not 13 :P < 1222201515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, hm? < 1222201533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, well no solution is perfect < 1222201545 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a solution is don't forget your password. < 1222201552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then I'm sure that could be explained for a human < 1222201581 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: well people can still fire off the password reset questions even if the account's password is forgotten < 1222201591 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as many times as they like, often... < 1222201593 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because they're trivial for anyone < 1222201611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some places I've had to set up reset questions < 1222201616 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they let me pick my question < 1222201623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes that sucks < 1222201624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I made it hard, obscure and without context < 1222201634 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i make my question 'what is your mothers maiden name' < 1222201638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when they force you to < 1222201638 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the answer iudfshsdiufhlsdfijaklsdhaksehu3iqey2378hny78qwjycd89asi8dmnuqwe < 1222201644 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1222201645 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was something not very important, so I designed it so my family could guess it and nobody else could < 1222201650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, just in case... < 1222201658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, I hope that isn't the real one ;P < 1222201667 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: depends on my entropy at the time... < 1222201673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, ah right < 1222201674 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you seed my random-finger-basher the right way... < 1222201675 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1222201692 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the security questions normally have restrictions on them < 1222201695 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think Gmail has a sneaky feature in that the password reset question is only enabled if the account has not been used for five days; so if you actively use your account, no-one can use the reset feature; and if you really forget the password, you just have to wait a few days. < 1222201708 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means the right answer doesn't get through their weak-password-detector < 1222201760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, actually that is rather predictable, a human will distribute about half the key presses on the left and the right side, and on average every other key press alternate between right and left side iirc < 1222201770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not perfectly but on average < 1222201774 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what-everrrrrrrrrrrrr < 1222201824 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you still need the keyboard layout ;-) < 1222201835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also two key presses after each other tends to be different keys < 1222201842 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error loading stylesheet: An unknown error has occurred () < 1222201845 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :helpful < 1222201856 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: more so than "Error: no error" < 1222201889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and repeating the key like abab is rather common < 1222201913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and the answer iudfshsdiufhlsdfijaklsdhaksehu3iqey2378hny78qwjycd89asi8dmnuqwe <-- no 'aa', but a few 'abab style repeats < 1222201920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'abab'* < 1222201921 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sruq894ue98tjmf98ujirkuioaua89w4k09e8rsah7ye8a95jye6897hyyujmriouj89048dk89es7kru8txinjcv dhjkzsu98ra7ik8sdiopufjdnvm hsektufy978 < 1222201938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, more random in that aspect ;) < 1222201951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still quite a few abab style < 1222201956 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just "head -b100 < /dev/urandom" < 1222201966 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :| uuencode if you want it printable < 1222201982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use head of urandom then filter it through tr < 1222202326 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: any ideas why http://tusho.net/ doesn't render?brb < 1222202348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/quAcgw35.html < 1222202363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, I get "Error loading stylesheet: (null)" in firefox < 1222202365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Konq I get all the text < 1222202367 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nothing else < 1222202370 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no formatting or anything < 1222202375 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a list of text, one after another < 1222202404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1222202410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, does that file exist? work? < 1222202445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... are you using XSLT to convert FOAF into XHTML? < 1222202457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, validating the style sheet gives "no doctype found, will only check well-formedness" < 1222202463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then "document is well formed" < 1222202772 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1222202786 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm... are you using XSLT to convert FOAF into XHTML? < 1222202786 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222202789 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no it's an xsl problem < 1222202791 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not xml syntax < 1222202815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, yes very likely < 1222202832 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh i already knew all that < 1222202832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, I just tried to check the basics < 1222202835 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1222203201 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xsltproc gives rather better error messages than browsers, IIRC; at least that (or some other command line tool from libxslt or something) was what I used when writing a relatively complicated html-with-xsl thing few years back. < 1222203257 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XPath error : Undefined namespace prefix < 1222203257 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xmlXPathCompiledEval: evaluation failed < 1222203257 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :runtime error: file foaf.xsl line 47 element value-of < 1222203257 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XPath evaluation returned no result. < 1222203258 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oicccccccc < 1222203268 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1222203272 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHICH NAMESPACE PREFIX YOU FUCKER < 1222203273 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1222203274 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1222203276 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :line 47 < 1222203280 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :

< 1222203283 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1222203285 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rdfs < 1222203288 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1222203342 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hoorah < 1222203342 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tusho.net/ < 1222203374 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ possibly the most semantically advanced URI for a personal homepage evar < 1222203404 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A FOAF document processed via XSLT into XHTML and in the headers a Pavatar header and a YADIS pointer (also gives YADIS via Accept header) < 1222203408 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the YADIS contains a link to my openid. < 1222203412 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beat that. < 1222203455 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that picture in the corner? < 1222203459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, what is the olb tag for? < 1222203467 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: my avatar < 1222203480 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Protip - when faced with unknown schemas, go to the namespace URI < 1222203483 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(xmlns:olb) < 1222203492 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://purl.org/vocab/bio/0.1/olb < 1222203495 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One-Line Bio < 1222203499 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for foaf:Persons. < 1222203506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, you like answering oerjan but why not try to act decent towards me too? < 1222203513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could help :P < 1222203523 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oerjan's question wasn't answerable by trivial research on his own < 1222203525 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yours was < 1222203529 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1222203551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, in this case sure, but I noticed that if ais523 asks something googable you respond < 1222203560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while that isn't true if I ask < 1222203562 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is still wondering what the picture _is_ < 1222203567 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1222203574 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of) < 1222203574 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i can show you the entire picture if that might help < 1222203585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ask Googlable stuff on IRC all the time, I'm better at using IRC than I am at using Google < 1222203586 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aye < 1222203598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, yes I wonder what it is too < 1222203599 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://tentaclerapture.com/uploads/AccountPictures/a0c941ca5f6d27efb1008e61f473813f.jpg < 1222203603 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Figure it out from that. < 1222203604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asking someone who knows is more reliable than asking a search engine that's being manipulated by thousands of people across the world < 1222203617 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope it's not related to the site name... < 1222203630 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no :P < 1222203638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, agreed < 1222203715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, hm what is that site you linked about, the main page is just an anonymous login page heh < 1222203743 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: All the information that is wished to be exposed about that site is on the front page. < 1222203749 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You will note the footer includes a reference to some forum software. < 1222203757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, yes? < 1222203759 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: can you tell what it is yet < 1222203766 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's all you're getting, then < 1222203768 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1222203781 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that black hole is my chair < 1222203785 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look behind it < 1222203787 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should give some context < 1222203790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, but if it was a link to phpBB would it be related to the site using it? < 1222203795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cloicks < 1222203797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clicks* < 1222203801 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no < 1222203804 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-INTERCAL < 1222203805 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just tells you that it is a forum < 1222203814 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*C-INTERCAL < 1222203817 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: googlebomber! < 1222203821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, doesn't say what the forum is about < 1222203826 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see something that _might_ be part of a guitar < 1222203827 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, it doesn't < 1222203833 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I said, the front page is all the info you're getting < 1222203840 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if there was more info wished to be exposed, the front page would include it < 1222203842 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: corect < 1222203844 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*correct < 1222203849 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: corrected < 1222203858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, who are "we"? < 1222203858 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bump in the top-left is a television < 1222203869 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I never used the word 'we'. < 1222203881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, ah misread than < 1222203882 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and the bottom-right thing, which my av comes from, is an imac box < 1222203883 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with stuff on. < 1222203888 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: But 'we' would be the members. < 1222203920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, and what is that site above since you are a member. Really bad style not even saying "invite only forum about " on the main page or such < 1222203941 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Can't you grasp the concept of "We don't want to tell you anything, go away"? < 1222203946 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is the concept that the main page conveys. < 1222203953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes and that is bad style IMO :P < 1222203971 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but your world of good style conflicts with human nature. < 1222203981 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this case, the want of secrecy. < 1222203994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, the guitar I can see, but apart from that nothing < 1222203999 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-26-23.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1222204003 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe ais523 knows what it is due to discussions I've had with him of the development of a custom piece of software for it. < 1222204004 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1222204014 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: top left bulb is a tv < 1222204018 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bottom right thing is an imac box with stuff on it < 1222204031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, what sort of lights did you use? < 1222204033 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that part of it, blown up, looks neat. < 1222204040 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: photo booth glow effect < 1222204044 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was dark at the time < 1222204047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: you should have copied the photo elsewhere first < 1222204051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to avoid this discussion < 1222204060 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it was spur of the moment < 1222204063 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have a http://secretwebsite.invalid, why link it? < 1222204068 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was messing with photo booth < 1222204070 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1222204071 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean < 1222204073 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about tr.com < 1222204077 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222204079 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and because that's where the image was conveniently < 1222204090 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i linked to a file incidentally on the secret site < 1222204099 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, i'm all for it being linked to < 1222204100 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :confusion is fun < 1222204114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: shall we move this conversation over to ##a-cow? < 1222204131 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222204384 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O < 1222204396 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that secret too :D < 1222204400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222204414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it must be, as I linked it here < 1222204428 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true, true < 1222204477 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if there is any language where word duplication is the usual means of negating < 1222204550 0 :Slereah2!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-26-23.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1222204584 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: That's a really really good idea. < 1222204600 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Usenet < 1222204602 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's tripling < 1222204613 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hm? < 1222204628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alt.barney.dinosaur.die.die.die and so on < 1222204631 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know they love him really < 1222204646 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1222204659 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1222204670 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alt.lucas-arts.star-wars.jar-jar-binks.die.die.die < 1222204683 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1222204693 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alt.fan.starwars.jar-jar-binks.die.die.die < 1222204697 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd say the evidence is - inconclusive :D < 1222204749 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall there is alt.fan.swedish-chef.bork.bork.bork or something close < 1222204769 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which may be the trope starter < 1222204790 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :context.noun.verb.verb.verb is pretty common, iirc < 1222205272 0 :kar8ng1!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1222205563 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1222205823 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who has IE < 1222205832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sitting next to a computer with IE installed < 1222205845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't mind waiting 10 mins or so for it to log in, I'll try < 1222205849 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how badly does tusho.net fail in it? < 1222205850 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1222205868 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, wait < 1222205871 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think a friend can check < 1222205878 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsurprisingly it fails in lynx < 1222205881 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've started logging in now, thoughh < 1222205885 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you check in w3m, perhaps? < 1222205886 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it workes in Epiphany over here < 1222205887 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't have it here < 1222205888 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :won't compile < 1222205895 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, the friend can't do it with IE anyway < 1222205909 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w3m tries to download < 1222205918 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsurprised < 1222205937 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAARGH! < 1222205938 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, w3m is unlikely to contain an xslt implementation :P < 1222205948 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAARGH? < 1222205956 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\?/!/ < 1222205967 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: esplain :O < 1222205979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, first, unexpectedly, it works perfectly in IE7 < 1222205991 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... wow < 1222205991 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just as well as in Epiphany < 1222205995 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O < 1222206006 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I have a lot more respect for IE7 than I did a minute ago... < 1222206013 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :second, they've set up the computers here so now there are no roaming profiles < 1222206021 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all computers have temporary settings which are lost on logout < 1222206027 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally, they 'upgraded' to Word 2007 < 1222206031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a bad sign < 1222206036 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with word 2007? < 1222206041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably Microsoft forced it on them though, there's far too close an agreement < 1222206045 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've heard a lot of good things about it and the negative things have been very vague < 1222206055 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. i like the idea of the ribbon < 1222206057 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: it encourages people to save in formats they can't use, for one thing < 1222206061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for the ribbon, it's missing the point < 1222206063 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of toolbars < 1222206071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ribbon replaces menus adequately < 1222206079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then you don't have quick access to the things you need < 1222206089 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one line of toolbar is enough, you can find everything else on the menus < 1222206098 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nielson had the ribbon as one of the best UI innovations of recent years < 1222206100 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with ribbons you just get giant menus you can't hide and no toolbars < 1222206124 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm most annoyed at the compatibility breakage, really < 1222206164 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Word keeps getting "cleverer" and "cleverer" < 1222206173 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the point it becomes almost unusable due to all the things it's doing automatically < 1222206174 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :docx sucks, indeed < 1222206189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things like Smart Tags < 1222206490 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | I am < 1222206748 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the profiles thing is annoying because it means I have to live with XP's interface < 1222206757 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or else reset it to Windows 95's every time I log in < 1222206767 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably I'll just stick to Linux, it's less hassle < 1222208664 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1222208674 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-080-228-181-057.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1222208824 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-26-23.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1222208882 0 :Slereah2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1222208973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1222209738 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1222211299 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1222211876 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't suppose you're here any longer, but does http://zem.fi/g2map/index.cgi/Travel/2007/Lieksa happen to work in IE? I'm a bit surprised if it does, since I didn't really test it with that at all. (Wrote that thing last summer for some GPS-synchronized photos, haven't bothered to take more.) < 1222211895 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would look suspicious logging on this late to test one website in IE < 1222211903 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try some time later for you if you like < 1222211930 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, if you feel like it. It's nothing important, though. < 1222211946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that cases I'll try iff I remember < 1222211953 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/cases/case/ < 1222212024 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I only have IE6 on Wine, but suffice to say that it doesn't seem to work. < 1222212077 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Working in IE6 would be even more surprising than IE7. < 1222212151 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume that if it does happen to work in IE7 you'll fix that? < 1222212247 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could, although I doubt anyone stumbles upon it, probably not very many (if any) links to it. I think using the Google Maps Javascript stuff gets me some free portamability, since some mouse-click events are registered with GEvent.addListener() which probably does IE-support-magic. < 1222212315 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And actually now that I look at the Javascript, there's even some "if (window.addEventListener) { addEventListener(...) } else { attachEvent(...) }" type code, which might mean I've made some half-assed attempts to make it work. < 1222213259 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1222214220 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: lolwut@those directions < 1222214237 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1222214296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"9"