< 1222819303 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1222819587 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1222819667 0 :oc2k1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1222820238 0 :oc2k1!n=oc2k1@p5B104D46.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1222820299 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1222821133 0 :MisterN!n=MisterN_@p5B2FF199.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1222821300 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :,[.,] < 1222821496 0 :MisterN!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+[,.] < 1222821534 0 :MisterN!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLEASE COME FROM ##brainfuck :D < 1222822071 0 :MisterN!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Verlassend" < 1222825802 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KDE 4 is fucking awesome. < 1222826980 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1222827454 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@65.183.185.132 JOIN :#esoteric < 1222829990 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1222832082 0 :GregorR_!n=gregor@65.183.185.132 JOIN :#esoteric < 1222832092 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1222832098 0 :GregorR_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :GregorR < 1222832896 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | of course < 1222837445 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1222837521 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1222838120 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@65.183.185.132 JOIN :#esoteric < 1222841377 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1222841433 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1222841616 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1222842222 0 :CO2Games!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1222842334 0 :CO2Games!n=CO2Games@75-163-236-8.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1222842772 0 :CO2Games!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1222843735 0 :oklopod!n=nnscript@dsl-tkubras1-ff2dc300-241.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1222843894 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@dsl-tkubras1-ff2dc300-241.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1222844102 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1222844167 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1222844282 0 :oklopod!n=nnscript@dsl-tkubras1-ff2dc300-241.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1222844875 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@dsl-tkubras1-ff2dc300-241.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1222844929 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1222845188 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1222845200 0 :oklopod!n=nnscript@dsl-tkubras1-ff2dc300-241.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1222845829 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1222846052 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-60-65.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1222846052 0 :slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1222846117 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@dsl-tkubras1-ff2dc300-241.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1222846471 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1222847050 0 :kwertii!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"bye" < 1222847999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1222848000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1222848049 0 :oklopod!n=nnscript@88.195.45.241 JOIN :#esoteric < 1222848466 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1222848479 0 :oklopod!n=nnscript@dsl-tkubras1-ff2dc300-241.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1222848794 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1222848809 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1222848855 0 :oklopod!n=nnscript@dsl-tkubras1-ff2dc300-241.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1222849219 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@dsl-tkubras1-ff2dc300-241.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1222849234 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1222849392 0 :oklopod!n=nnscript@dsl-tkubras1-ff2dc300-241.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1222849392 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1222849505 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1222850214 0 :oklopod!n=nnscript@dsl-tkubras1-ff2dc300-241.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1222850391 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@dsl-tkubras1-ff2dc300-241.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1222850413 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1222851161 0 :oklopod!n=nnscript@dsl-tkubras1-ff2dc300-241.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1222851480 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1222851496 0 :oklopod!n=nnscript@dsl-tkubras1-ff2dc300-241.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1222851591 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1222851635 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1222851808 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-080-228-181-032.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1222851926 0 :oklopod!n=nnscript@88.195.45.241 JOIN :#esoteric < 1222852077 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1222852135 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-080-228-190-184.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1222852282 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@dsl-tkubras1-ff2dc300-241.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1222852852 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1222852883 0 :oklopod!n=nnscript@dsl-tkubras1-ff2dc300-241.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1222852912 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1222853219 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1222853266 0 :oklopod!n=nnscript@dsl-tkubras1-ff2dc300-241.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1222854497 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | world! < 1222855194 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1222857898 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1222857962 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1222858374 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1222858380 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1222858709 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@cE699BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1222858878 0 :oc2k1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1222860113 0 :oklopod!n=nnscript@a91-153-122-163.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1222860340 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@a91-153-122-163.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1222860340 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1222860532 0 :oklopod!n=nnscript@dsl-tkubras1-ff2dc300-241.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1222860983 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1222860988 0 :oklopod!n=nnscript@a91-153-123-88.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1222861172 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1222861177 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1222861667 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1222862438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hi < 1222862864 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: he's not here. < 1222862897 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: make optbot put whether ais523 is here on the topic. < 1222862898 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopod: but that should be the code for a bot that tries to keep in the middle of a platform < 1222862903 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopod: lol :-) < 1222862906 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called /w ais523 < 1222862922 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1222862922 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who < 1222862930 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/who ais523 < 1222862936 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :352: #esoteric n=ais523 eso-std.org irc.freenode.net ais523 G 0 (this is obviously not my real name) < 1222862958 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was from an explanation about ob < 1222862963 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what optbot said < 1222862963 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopod: when I was young and naive I thought i'd be able to get syntax-error.com < 1222862968 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was you < 1222862972 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: more < 1222862972 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopod: by the way, < 1222862978 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one i have no idea about < 1222862988 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: more < 1222862989 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopod: having said that, there are occasions when people deserve to be stabbed in the face < 1222862994 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq? < 1222862996 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: more < 1222862997 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopod: I think so < 1222863005 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so it was pikhq < 1222863007 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: more < 1222863007 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopod: Because if he spends money registering the domain, it's money that won't go to the poor! < 1222863019 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't seen this one < 1222863022 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmhmm < 1222863042 0 :Hiato!n=Hiato@dsl-245-40-86.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1222863053 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can always grep for you guys btw. < 1222863064 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can python-grep too < 1222863074 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although not from the earliest / newest ones < 1222863078 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's a minority < 1222863089 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can *check* by grepping if you *feel* like it < 1222863099 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopod: by the way, how do you like bayesian spam filters. < 1222863115 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't used them, just simpler statistical methods < 1222863125 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know anything about bayesian networks < 1222863128 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopod: but are they neat < 1222863137 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a 'probably neat but i don't know anything about them' way < 1222863150 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're asking about my opinion about their usage, or how much use they are, then i don't have an opinion really < 1222863164 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopod: more about how awesome they are actually < 1222863182 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all networks are, by default, awesome, as they are graphs < 1222863188 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopod: good < 1222863211 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a book about bayesian networks is on my read-list, or actually two < 1222863211 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because me and comex have written and are writing a program that uses bayesian spam filtering in python < 1222863214 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be cheap ai < 1222863216 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1222863221 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but course books have a higher priority < 1222863224 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It votes on Agoran proposals. < 1222863230 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i still have a few books to go < 1222863235 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First, it was fed a backlog of the proposal results 2006-present. < 1222863241 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If a proposal passed, it was fed as not spam. < 1222863246 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it failed, it was fed as spam. < 1222863255 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1222863257 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, it votes AGAINST new proposals that act like spam. < 1222863262 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and FOR other ones < 1222863271 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol @ the geniosity < 1222863280 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like that < 1222863288 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1222863288 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you writing the actual bayesian network part? < 1222863294 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or just using some lib or smth < 1222863301 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopod: just using a lib i'm afraid, but its probably for the best < 1222863307 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, its designed for spam filtering < 1222863313 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's gonna be better at it than a one-day hack... < 1222863327 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the best maybe, but it's against my nonsensical principles. :P < 1222863328 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funnily enough, on a recent batch we tested it on, it voted exactly the same as me on 3 proposals < 1222863333 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :out of 4 proposals in the pool < 1222863344 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1222863353 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the one it voted AGAINST that I voted FOR was probably because it was quite a big thing and probably had a lot of loopholes but I kinda liked the idea so i voted for it) < 1222863357 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well 3/4 isn't really that impressive < 1222863361 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopod: no < 1222863364 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how about these statistics: < 1222863388 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try adding half of the proposals, and testing the rest < 1222863390 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1222863393 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopod: nonono < 1222863396 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :watch: < 1222863397 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nonono? < 1222863400 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay. < 1222863436 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopod: I made it vote on every proposal that we trained it on and then measured how many times it voted 'right' < 1222863441 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(FOR when it passed AGAINST when it failed < 1222863445 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :928/1066 < 1222863445 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOR: 448/581 < 1222863446 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AGAINST: 464/469 < 1222863446 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRESENT: 16 < 1222863455 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex's initial version was closer to the status quo, BUT < 1222863460 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his tracked author names < 1222863461 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1222863464 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :certain proposers < 1222863467 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rarely ever get proposals passed < 1222863468 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you tested it on ones that it was fed? < 1222863473 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his tried to vote on whether it would passed < 1222863477 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine votes on whether it's a good proposal < 1222863480 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopod: yeah < 1222863489 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bayesian spam filtering doesn't actually retain the original test < 1222863493 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, don't, then give me the results < 1222863493 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so its not as trivial as it seems.. < 1222863494 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*text < 1222863505 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopod: those are the only proposals i can get a hold off < 1222863506 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*of < 1222863515 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno where I can get pre-2006 archives < 1222863515 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :half in, then check half < 1222863515 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1222863518 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopod: alright < 1222863548 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: You can easily do leave-one-out cross-validation. Train it on all but one, then test on that one. Repeat for every proposal. That's a lot of computing systems, so your machines won't feel all unnecessary. < 1222863558 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopod: less impressive - < 1222863558 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :798/1066 < 1222863559 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOR: 379/578 < 1222863559 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AGAINST: 294/363 < 1222863559 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRESENT: 125 < 1222863560 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, s/systems/cycles/ < 1222863563 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however < 1222863566 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's because < 1222863571 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the game changed a lot around half way through < 1222863571 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1222863576 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't used to the new kinds of proposals < 1222863581 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after the series of revamps < 1222863585 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still < 1222863588 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not bad performance, I'd say < 1222863590 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus < 1222863590 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you insert in order? < 1222863593 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopod: yea < 1222863596 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try what fizzie said < 1222863601 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopod: no, that'd take years < 1222863611 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try first, then insert it, then test next, then insert it < 1222863617 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright < 1222863619 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1222863622 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1222863626 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're two different scripts < 1222863627 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1222863628 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this will kinda do what fizzie said, but i guess a bit faster. < 1222863628 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION mangles
< 1222863643 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it will be more sensical, as bayesian networks adapt < 1222863644 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Leave-one-out will take at most 1066 times longer than your original test, and it doesn't sound like it takes a long time right now. < 1222863664 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so chronological + testing the one after input in chronological order should work the best < 1222863710 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the feeding takes about a second < 1222863714 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the test takes about a second < 1222863722 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2132 seconds. < 1222863732 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats an hour < 1222863733 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1222863736 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not a year. :p < 1222863741 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopod: < 1222863741 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :628/1066 < 1222863742 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOR: 321/627 < 1222863742 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AGAINST: 285/417 < 1222863742 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRESENT: 22 < 1222863745 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And the test will be a lot faster since it has only one proposal to test.) < 1222863752 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc, remember, it isn't AIMING to get it right < 1222863759 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since proposals fail for non-bad-proposal reasons < 1222863763 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. grudges, bribery, whatever < 1222863773 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the "test it before inserting" you might want to start testing only after you've fed something like half of the proposals. < 1222863780 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yeah, ok. < 1222863781 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not likely the untrained system will do very well. < 1222863781 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222863786 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was just gonna say that < 1222863824 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i was actually gonna say emphasize gradually more as input size grows, and give the percentage, which is the same thing, but more complicated and more useless < 1222863854 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yikes: < 1222863854 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :321/1066 < 1222863854 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOR: 121/294 < 1222863855 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AGAINST: 190/229 < 1222863855 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRESENT: 10 < 1222863858 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very good < 1222863859 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1222863861 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i did that wrong < 1222863878 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1222863885 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopod: oh well, the point is < 1222863888 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also tested it on a batch of like < 1222863890 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 recent proposals < 1222863895 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it voted very, very reasonably < 1222863906 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't really take any risks, and voted against obviously bad stuff < 1222863913 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but voted for fixes and such < 1222863915 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1222863919 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had it been fed those as inputs..? < 1222863919 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in its actual real world environment < 1222863920 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is good < 1222863922 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopod: yes < 1222863926 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1222863930 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1222863930 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1222863931 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's simply not right < 1222863932 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it hadn't < 1222863932 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant < 1222863933 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 2006 < 1222863935 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to present < 1222863936 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1222863938 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1222863938 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not including them < 1222863939 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1222863940 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it hadn't < 1222863943 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay. < 1222863945 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1222863948 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had it now?!? < 1222863949 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had < 1222863950 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it < 1222863950 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now? < 1222863951 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it doesn't do too well statistically < 1222863951 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1222863952 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1222863954 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had it? < 1222863956 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopod: nO < 1222863957 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess not. < 1222863958 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it hadn't < 1222863962 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hadn't? < 1222863963 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had not been fed the proposals that it voted on < 1222863968 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had been fed the archives, however < 1222863974 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is the conditions in which it will be run in the wild < 1222863976 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for new proposals < 1222863979 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it's the best it can do < 1222863980 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1222863982 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that environment < 1222863988 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it functioned well as a reasonable mechanical voting machine. < 1222863992 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Re classification, given the ~300 authors with >10 English books in the Gutenberg project, our very silly SOM-based classifier (using _very silly_ feature representation for books) can already correctly guess the author for >40% of incoming books. Conclusion: writers just keep repeating themselves all the time. < 1222864006 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1222864012 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet i could make this detect author < 1222864015 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i won't < 1222864016 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(guess) < 1222864088 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: btw < 1222864092 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just actually timed it and etc < 1222864094 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: the same system is pretty good (average in-class accuracy 70-80 %, even though the training data is horribly biased) at guessing the gender of the author. < 1222864095 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd take 0.96 hours < 1222864097 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to do your thing < 1222864150 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would take 25 days of computing-time to do actual leave-one-out cross-validation for our Gutenberg data-set. :p < 1222864170 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which is one of the reasons why we're not using it either.) < 1222864174 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what on earth is it doing?! :-) < 1222864179 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1222864180 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats it for < 1222864201 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: now the question is, how silly is it? < 1222864205 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coursework, for the... what's the course again? I forget. It's 1.5 years past the returning deadline anyway. :p < 1222864221 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ouch :D < 1222864239 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Because the deadline was a "soft" one; the lecturer said that "you can return it any time you like, but you won't get your course grade before you do".) < 1222864247 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: would it be able to vote on agoran proposals? < 1222864299 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not well, but theoretically speaking, yes. But the feature representation is all just simple statistics (sentence lengths, use of pronouns, etc.) and does not look at the content words at all. < 1222864308 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahh. < 1222864339 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if you want nonsensical decisions, sure. < 1222864381 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course with the SOM-based approach you get nifty visualizations, and sort-of proposal clustering, "for free". < 1222864503 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we selected our classifier because with all the pictures of the SOM maps in the report, there's no need to write much actual text for it. :p < 1222864543 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah you can't write that much in 1,5 years < 1222864561 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Work on the project has been... sporadic. < 1222864605 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1222864633 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sporadic... like, spore-adic, cuz it took 1,5 years < 1222864634 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see i see < 1222864652 0 :Hiato1!n=Hiato@dsl-245-40-86.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1222864655 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: perhaps you know - you know how ssh makes you enter your pwd at a terminal? < 1222864659 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SVN revision 1 has a timestamp of 2007-02-06 02:01:56 +0200. < 1222864665 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, bayes has one password on eso-std.org and its long and i dont wanna type it to login < 1222864666 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1222864670 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm trying to make a shell script < 1222864672 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that runs ssh < 1222864674 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but gives it the password < 1222864678 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :via the command line < 1222864681 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. from the script < 1222864688 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that only people who can log in as bayes anyway can see) < 1222864727 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the more recommended approach would be to generate a RSA (or DSA) key with no passphrase -- in a file that only those people can read -- and add that in authorized_keys of the remote side. < 1222864734 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[bayes = the bot btw] < 1222864742 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yeah but...fffffffff < 1222864781 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you can use the SSH_ASKPASS environment variable. < 1222864787 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/search2001.html google's index in 2001 < 1222864876 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how to force it to use SSH_ASKPASS except by doing "ssh ... 4. :/ < 1222867803 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The spec doesn't require it to. < 1222867808 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R5RS just defines those functions. < 1222867822 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, but it doesn't forbid it either. < 1222867906 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0/1/inf < 1222867994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't everything have a return value in scheme? At least the REPL doesn't print out what (if anything) (define x 3) returns < 1222868073 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: (define x 3) returns an unspecified value < 1222868078 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has an unspecified value, yes. < 1222868082 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which has a representation of the null string. < 1222868088 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a way to make it print as #, iirc. < 1222868094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1222868100 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1222868102 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAYES WORKS!!! < 1222868103 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DDDDDDDDDDDD < 1222868122 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1222868145 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From: Bayes < 1222868145 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To: agora-business@agoranomic.org < 1222868145 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Subject: BUS: Bayes voting < 1222868145 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Date: Wed, 1 Oct 2008 12:32:14 +0000 (UTC) < 1222868146 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bayes votes as follows: < 1222868146 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5732 FORx2 < 1222868147 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5733 AGAINSTx2 < 1222868147 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, actually it might be more correct to say that (in MzScheme) it has the representation #, and the REPL doesn't print it. < 1222868149 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- < 1222868151 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bayes 2008-10-01 13:10:18 +0100 < 1222868174 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The timestamp is the version btw.) < 1222868226 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(display (set! x 42)) prints "#", after all. < 1222868228 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1222868296 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: Weren't you a Django person? Is it any good? < 1222868300 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. 199 lines of code (+ 56 but that's just the script I used to take a look at how it votes) just voted on two agoran proposals as a partnership. < 1222868307 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, Django is good. < 1222868314 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Don't read djangobook.com, it's outdated. < 1222868317 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seemed good to me, but I've been wrong before. < 1222868320 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Try the official site's tutorial for a starter. < 1222868340 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's what I've been reading, as well as links from it. So far it has seemed nice. < 1222868393 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The automagically generated "admin" thing sounds rather gimmicky, but can't deny the usefulness of it. Of course this is not the right place to talk about useful things. < 1222868405 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it sounds gimmicky but it's actually useful. < 1222868413 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc, you have to use the admin models to get it to work nicely < 1222868419 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's less work than recoding a whole admin interface again < 1222868426 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, its built in authentication framework is good. < 1222868428 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use it. :-P < 1222868439 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1222868447 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had troubles using it first - Not Invented Here and all that < 1222868452 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but when I decided to try it it's actually really good < 1222868471 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Save this link for later if you end up wanting to try the auth system: http://www.b-list.org/weblog/2006/jun/06/django-tips-extending-user-model/) < 1222868576 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I came across that one already. Yes, I think I'll try it. Usually I tend to reinvent everything, but so far the existing things have seemed to be much like what I would have written myself, except with more features that don't really hurt. < 1222868692 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's the problem with avoiding NIH - the stuff that you use has to fit your mental model. The other option is having a non-opinionated framework that lets you tweak it to how you want, but that's often more effort for you than just reinventing it, and also is way more effort for the framework writer. < 1222868694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/dorai/t-y-scheme/t-y-scheme-Z-H-4.html <-- that got an issue, it mentions expt, but not what expt is.... < 1222868705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like it is an odd name for pow() in many other languages < 1222868741 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: expt = exponential < 1222868743 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes < 1222868752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. Explains the name < 1222868762 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering what problem you had with it but then realised you probably don't know english mathematical terminology's abbreviations :-P < 1222868779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, indeed I don't. < 1222868814 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some slack may be cut for it since the context -- "+, -, *, /, expt" -- gives a strong cue. < 1222868838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(define (^ x y) (expt x y)) <-- no idea if that is a good idea, but seems to work, in guile, still waiting for mzscheme to finish building < 1222868862 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can just (define ^ expt) if you like. < 1222868868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, interesting < 1222868888 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You don't wanna do that. < 1222868889 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1222868889 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also < 1222868892 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guile is the worst thing you could use < 1222868899 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't nearly come close to obeying R5Rs.. < 1222868901 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*R5RS < 1222868909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, yes it just happened to be installing, and I'm waiting for drscheme to install < 1222868913 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1222868914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :installed* < 1222868917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the first case < 1222868928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :setup-plt: making: scribblings/quick/images < 1222868928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :setup-plt: making: scribblings/reference < 1222868928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :setup-plt: in scribblings/reference < 1222868929 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Anyway, generally, trying to get a language to act like another for familiarity (e.g. that ^ trick) will just hamper your learning of it. < 1222868934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is how far the compiling got < 1222868944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define being { < 1222868947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define end } < 1222868948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1222868953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I don't claim it is a good idea < 1222868954 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: BEING < 1222868955 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1222868964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, it's psacl < 1222868968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1222868979 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Piss ACL? < 1222868980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually could be psacal even < 1222868984 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that like a really bad accessing control list? < 1222868986 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEING ... NED < 1222868988 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*access < 1222869007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, I think it is virulent bda spleeing < 1222869125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define procedure void < 1222869140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define function /**/ < 1222869142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait hm < 1222869146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot pascal syntax < 1222869151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for return type < 1222869158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no great loss there. < 1222869284 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1222869312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there anyone who *don't* dislike pascal? < 1222869337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from Borland I mean < 1222869361 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*doesn't < 1222869361 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah < 1222869361 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Niklaus Wirth. < 1222869385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes the author of the language < 1222869386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1222869394 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pascal isn't _bad_, anyway. < 1222869396 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just obsolete. < 1222869413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah, Delphi however is bad < 1222869424 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222869427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it is pascal with object orientation bolted on in a horrible way < 1222869435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Delphi for .NET is *even* worse < 1222869437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes it exists < 1222869457 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you ever see the words "OOP", "bolted" and "on" in the same sentence, run the hell away. < 1222869474 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That includes C++. < 1222869525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm interesting both python and guile fail seriously under valgrind < 1222869534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl pass it just fine < 1222869542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, and yes I agree about C++ < 1222869552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing wrong with OOP, if it is done correctly IMO < 1222869566 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and the same goes for Java. < 1222869575 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some actual Java usecases, but it's not a good language. < 1222869586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, what about objc? < 1222869614 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Obj-C sidesteps the issue by not integrating its OOP at all. < 1222869620 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has two halfs: a C half and a Smalltalky half. < 1222869623 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can mingle them. < 1222869637 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, it's a bit glaring, but it doesn't involve any ugly sticky-tape. < 1222869638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, what? mix one bit from each? < 1222869639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?! < 1222869647 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what < 1222869650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, mingle < 1222869657 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1222869658 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-p < 1222869659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :abababa < 1222869660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know < 1222869663 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222869693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankfully I guess no one tried to mix intercal with c and smalltalk, Yes I know about CLC's lectures... < 1222869761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :setup-plt: rendering: xml/xml.scrbl < 1222869761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :setup-plt: re-rendering: compiler/cffi.scrbl < 1222869770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mzscheme really got a weird build process < 1222869781 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's why people don't build it manually... < 1222869782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is generating documentation or something < 1222869796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1222869796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :setup-plt: --- building documentation --- < 1222869833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, no download from the official website for my platform < 1222869849 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: See, if you were using a binary distro... :-P < 1222869857 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, when I pasted Bayes' votes I didn't show the proposals it voted on < 1222869859 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone interested? < 1222869886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, I am using a binary distro. < 1222869898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just the binaries are generated locally < 1222869899 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Really? Which one? :-P < 1222869904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of remotely < 1222869905 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1222869912 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just twisting terminology. < 1222869916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, I got /bin/cat not /bin/cat.c < 1222869919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as an example < 1222869922 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's just twisting terminology. < 1222869926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, maybe :P < 1222869966 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I should make bayes run on a cronjob. < 1222869970 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every hour or so, process the new email < 1222869978 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bayes@rutian:~$ python bayes/bayes.py < 1222869978 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... < 1222869979 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bayes@rutian:~$ < 1222869981 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like that output < 1222869986 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'... there's nothing here for me. Huh?' < 1222869988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using a source based binary distro < 1222870000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even more, the install cd had binaries, not just source < 1222870001 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The dots represent a message it didn't process save for deleting.) < 1222870002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1222870023 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If anyone wants to see the proposals Bayes voted on: ##nomic-flood < 1222870038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, ah we got to the binary phase < 1222870046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is merging the binaries to the file system now < 1222870074 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody cares about Bayes. :-( < 1222870081 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a program! That decides if things are good or not! < 1222870093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use SpamBayes myself for email filtering < 1222870095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works well < 1222870132 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Funny you should say that. Bayes uses SpamBayes, being written in Python, as a library. < 1222870149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, hm interesting < 1222870215 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Interesting? Good. Get yer ass over to ##nomic-flood. :D < 1222870228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, but I think that 96% of my "ham" email could be found using this regex for subject: ^\[[^\]]+-(devel|svn|commit)\] < 1222870229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1222870235 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1222870264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, oh and I'm not interested in nomics < 1222870276 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: But Bayes is cool. < 1222870286 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And fun. < 1222870300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf, mzscheme ran tex config stuff at end of install < 1222870311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also install is around 200 MB < 1222870313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1222870330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :source download was around 14 MB < 1222870335 0 :oc2k1!n=oc2k1@p5B103E47.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1222870351 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Fine, you go to ##nomic-flood then. :-P < 1222870387 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have absolutely no clue what the whole "nomic" thing is about, it's all so confusing. < 1222870406 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Nomic is a game where the rules let you change the rules. < 1222870415 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a minimal nomic of one rule: < 1222870426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (+ 2 3) < 1222870426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DrScheme cannot process programs until you choose a programming language. < 1222870426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either select the “Choose Language...” item in the “Language” menu, or get guidance. < 1222870427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1222870428 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. Any player can propose a change to the rules. If all the other players agree to that change, it takes effect. < 1222870432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was scheme? < 1222870441 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Choose Language -> MzScheme < 1222870446 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, MzScheme (Full) < 1222870448 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever it is < 1222870454 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: 1. Any player can propose a change to the rules. If all the other players agree to that change, it takes effect. < 1222870476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, err not there < 1222870481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is going to take screenshot
< 1222870484 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: k < 1222870485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is just too absurd < 1222870489 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1222870490 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not. < 1222870546 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The language subset thing it has _was_ a bit silly. < 1222870549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://omploader.org/vc2dt < 1222870551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1222870569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, what one? < 1222870591 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Um. < 1222870594 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's messed up. < 1222870600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, agreed < 1222870602 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those shouldn't be under "legacy languages". < 1222870608 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you fucked up the install < 1222870613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, no I didn't < 1222870617 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, yes you did. < 1222870621 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I have never seen that before. < 1222870624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, prove it < 1222870626 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From anyone. < 1222870646 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Generally, if everybody I know has the right screen and so do I and you have a messed up version of it... < 1222870651 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd not place the blame on anything but your install. < 1222870652 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should have a "PLT" group there, with the sensible settings. < 1222870671 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least in 352. :p < 1222870676 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 'Pretty Big' is the right language, but somehow I doubt it'll work. < 1222870678 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fix your install... < 1222870681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, this is 4.1 < 1222870684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 352 < 1222870728 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Anyway. < 1222870732 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Select 'Pretty Big'. < 1222870736 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the one you want to use. < 1222870745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, http://omploader.org/vc2du < 1222870746 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Its name makes more sense in the correct hierarchy: < 1222870749 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scheme < 1222870749 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- PLT < 1222870752 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- - Tiny < 1222870753 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- - (etc) < 1222870755 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- - Pretty Big < 1222870757 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- - (etc) < 1222870766 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, just click OK. < 1222870783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait isn't scheme case sensitive? < 1222870789 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO. < 1222870790 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ER < 1222870792 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :capslock < 1222870793 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1222870815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure that is in the standard? < 1222870825 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Have you read R5RS? < 1222870826 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have I? < 1222870832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, no idea if you have < 1222870837 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'(no yes) < 1222870880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1222870881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ mzscheme < 1222870881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to MzScheme v4.1 [3m], Copyright (c) 2004-2008 PLT Scheme Inc. < 1222870881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (define x 3) < 1222870881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> X < 1222870881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reference to undefined identifier: X < 1222870883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> x < 1222870885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 < 1222870895 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Different language. < 1222870904 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Select Pretty Big in DrScheme and go with it. < 1222870930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, different? So it isn't scheme? < 1222870950 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It is a variation on scheme with case sensitive turned on, presumably. < 1222870965 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously: Pretty Big, OK, continue reading fixnum days. :P < 1222870995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, well http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/dorai/t-y-scheme/t-y-scheme-Z-H-3.html#node_chap_1 suggests command line mzscheme < 1222871006 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine. Then use command-line mzscheme. < 1222871006 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1222871019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just indeed it states "normally case insensitive" < 1222871020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1222871026 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well. < 1222871030 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just go with what fixnum days says. < 1222871039 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. I just installed 4.1 and get the same language selection box as you. < 1222871041 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahhh, I know. < 1222871047 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Youre meant to us "Module" < 1222871053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, there, not my fault! < 1222871054 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which uses whatever language is specified in the module header < 1222871059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so stop blaming my install < 1222871067 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1222871071 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Prior to that I had no reason to believe it was not your install. < 1222871073 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kthx. < 1222871090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, maybe you should be more careful in the future? ;P < 1222871103 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh. < 1222871104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, anyway I prefer to work from REPL instead of files < 1222871115 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, R5RS defines that an implementation has a "preferred case" to which it converts all symbols. (Except those generated by string->symbol, which can have characters in a nonstandard case.) < 1222871119 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DrScheme is a REPL+file environment. < 1222871130 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, just do what Fixnum Days says. < 1222871157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway readline doesn't work in command line mzscheme < 1222871158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1222871193 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Use rlwrap. < 1222871206 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1222871207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1222871207 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: < 1222871209 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mzscheme -il readline < 1222871220 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, wait < 1222871232 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Do this < 1222871234 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in mzscheme < 1222871234 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(install-readline!) < 1222871238 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then restart it < 1222871248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-il readline *did* work. it seems? < 1222871253 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1222871254 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay then. < 1222871257 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do (install-readline!) now. < 1222871261 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that just 'mzscheme' will use readline. < 1222871270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (install-readline!) < 1222871270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reference to undefined identifier: install-readline! < 1222871282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I need the -il too < 1222871282 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1222871285 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1222871285 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1222871287 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1222871289 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mzscheme -il readline < 1222871291 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And actually: R6RS Scheme _is_ case-sensitive. < 1222871293 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(install-readline!) < 1222871295 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^D < 1222871296 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mzscheme < 1222871299 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: R6RS sucks. < 1222871304 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And nobody sane uses it. < 1222871318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so R5RS is case sensitive? or undefined? < 1222871325 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R5RS is case insensitive. < 1222871332 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R6RS is case sensitive. < 1222871332 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Case-insensitive, after a fashion. < 1222871338 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And R6RS probably didn't actually pass properly. < 1222871347 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The committee ... weren't too careful with their votes.) < 1222871357 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also, they used a stupid-shit vote counting algorithm) < 1222871363 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That essentially meant it would pass no matter what) < 1222871378 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of the major scheme implementations have basically said that they're not implementing R6RS. < 1222871386 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In R5RS symbols are turned into the implementation's preferred case in most cases (pun unintended), which makes it pretty case-insensitive. < 1222871424 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MzScheme has been case-sensitive by default a reasonably long time, though. < 1222871448 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway just do what fixnum says, srsly < 1222871448 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1222871479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (define a 1) < 1222871479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> a < 1222871479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1222871479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (define a 2) < 1222871479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> a < 1222871480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 < 1222871482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (set! a 5) < 1222871484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> a < 1222871486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 < 1222871488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1222871490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so...? < 1222871492 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why is that hm < 1222871492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :single assignment or not? < 1222871496 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1222871498 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not single assignment. < 1222871500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what is the difference between set! and define there < 1222871504 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define defines. < 1222871506 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set! sets. < 1222871507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they seem to work exactly the same < 1222871512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, oh it is another variable? < 1222871516 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No. < 1222871524 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in R5RS syntax, define can only appear at the start of a function. < 1222871527 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set! can appear anywhere. < 1222871528 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway. < 1222871529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1222871536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and REPL mess that up? < 1222871536 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As R5RS specifies it: < 1222871540 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define is basically purely functional < 1222871544 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set! is destructive < 1222871549 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, in a REPL they have no difference. < 1222871568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in a function you will get an error when trying to change using define? < 1222871578 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No. < 1222871581 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll just shadow the variable. < 1222871582 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But < 1222871587 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(lambda () foobar (define ...)) < 1222871589 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is technically illegal. < 1222871594 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think any impls enforce that... < 1222871597 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, of course they have a difference: set! can't set an undefined identifier. < 1222871599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm interesting < 1222871603 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, that too. < 1222871655 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.offensive-security.com/movies/vistahack/vistahack.html OMG IF SOMEONE HAS PHYSICAL ACCESS TO YOUR MACHINE THEY CAN HACK IN TO IT :O :O :O < 1222871705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, so... how does a shadowed definition differ from a changed definition? If scheme have pointers or references I could see how, but does it have that? < 1222871706 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHOCKING < 1222871714 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: < 1222871716 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(define a 2) < 1222871725 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(define (foo) (define a 3) a) < 1222871729 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(foo) => 3 < 1222871731 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a => 2 < 1222871736 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VERSUS < 1222871739 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(define a 2) < 1222871743 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(define (foo) (set! a 3) a) < 1222871744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, right, the scope < 1222871745 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(foo) => 3 < 1222871746 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a => 3 < 1222871765 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and I have another difference: you can't use "(set! (x a) (+ a 1))" as a shorthand for "(set! x (lambda (a) (+ a 1)))", but with define you can. < 1222871774 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. < 1222871781 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nit-picking: it's what I do. < 1222871793 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: FIZZIE: nitpicking < 1222871801 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imagine that on a motivational poster, would you. < 1222871804 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIZZIE < 1222871806 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nitpicking < 1222871830 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly, even R5RS says: "At the top level of a program, a definition -- has essentially the same effect as the assignment expression -- if is bound." < 1222871830 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIZZIE: for all your nitpicking needs < 1222871874 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GAME LOST I JUST < 1222872065 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: did any programs play agora back in the day? < 1222872107 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that i recall < 1222872192 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool. I think Bayes will be the first mechanical playing machine, then. (PerlNomic Partnership doesn't count, it just does things like vote by proxy of the players.) < 1222872236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reference to undefined identifier: set-car! <-- huh? < 1222872251 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: In PLT Scheme 4, they made all conses immutable by default. < 1222872259 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes things faster and also more functionally. < 1222872264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, well was just following fixnum days < 1222872271 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah, well, < 1222872271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying out the bits in order to learn < 1222872273 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use mcons < 1222872282 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Mutable Cons) < 1222872300 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: I disagree with the choice to move to immutable conses by default) < 1222872305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that consistent with R5RS? < 1222872311 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Nope. < 1222872331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, well I would like to use a standard following scheme < 1222872342 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's not a problem. < 1222872345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION checks command line options
< 1222872348 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most code doesn't use set-car!/set-cdr!. < 1222872364 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When it does, just use mcons/mcar/mcdr/set-mcar!/set-mcdr! < 1222872366 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's a very rare case. < 1222872373 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: set-car!/set-cdr! is considered quite poor style < 1222872380 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for large values of quite < 1222872399 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :puzzlet < 1222872403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, yes I understand that, still I assume not all other implementations have the m names < 1222872414 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Scheme code is not portable. End of. < 1222872424 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :None of the libraries - at all - or the ways of loading them - are portable. < 1222872429 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SRFI libraries, yes, portable. < 1222872431 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not the ways to load them. < 1222872446 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is impossible to write a non-trivial R5RS program that runs on multiple implementations without modification. < 1222872453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1222872462 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best option: Deal with it, use PLT Scheme's dialect, because it has a big user community and is the best impl. < 1222872470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about R6RS? < 1222872479 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R6RS is laughable. < 1222872488 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It only passed because they decided to count the votes in a retarded way, < 1222872491 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is NO user community, < 1222872500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe common lisp is more portable? < 1222872502 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only a handful of implementations - none with substantial libraries - although R6RS does have more libraries built in - < 1222872511 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also R6RS' built in libraries are quite unschemish < 1222872514 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, but still not by much. < 1222872519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1222872526 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Common Lisp has a way to print numbers in roman numerals built-in < 1222872530 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no standard networking library. < 1222872533 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, scheme is nicer. < 1222872539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, useful for intercal < 1222872541 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My advice: Just stick with PLT... < 1222872547 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, INTERCAL does it in another way < 1222872555 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With its extra lines for _ super/subscripts < 1222872560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes true < 1222872594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, well then, what about a fixnum days compatible scheme? Does that exist? < 1222872609 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, it's called "obsolete PLT scheme". Honestly, though: It hasn't changed much. < 1222872613 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mcons is probably the only major snag you'll hit < 1222872615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1222872619 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I doubt fixnum uses set-car!/set-cdr! much anyway < 1222872637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1222872642 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1222872715 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1222872839 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Re MzScheme, since version 4 there's the command-line executable "plt-r5rs" which loads MzScheme in R5RS mode -- that might even match fixnum's language better than current default PLT scheme. < 1222872870 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really have a good guess to how much PLT-isms there are in fixnum. < 1222872895 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least the case-sensitivity seems to go away in "plt-r5rs". :p < 1222872918 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And conses become mutable, obviously.) < 1222872945 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would just use mzscheme. < 1222872952 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1222872958 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since everyone else does < 1222872984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, that is case sensitive, which you claimed scheme wasn't ;P < 1222872993 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, I said R5RS scheme wasn't < 1222873646 0 :ae5ir!i=rob@unaffiliated/robdgreat JOIN :#esoteric < 1222875679 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-028-216.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1222875748 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_numbers < 1222876097 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | for backup files < 1222876213 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't think people would be happy if he started using #esoteric for backup
< 1222876228 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: try it < 1222876265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, I think I hit another such incompatiblity < 1222876269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spelling < 1222876277 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: wut < 1222876282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/dorai/t-y-scheme/t-y-scheme-Z-H-6.html#node_sec_4.3 < 1222876294 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya what about it < 1222876313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"reference to undefined identifier: c < 1222876313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1222876326 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "The clause whose head contains the value of c is chosen." < 1222876333 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My placeholder variables, let me show you them. < 1222876337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1222876347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1222876353 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1222876374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION got a cold so not thinking 100% straight atm
< 1222876386 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Try going on hold. < 1222876438 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i am the reason scheme < 1222876442 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for* < 1222876492 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kCongrats, you speak less sense than fungot... < 1222876493 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: a multiline text box in a post regarding stalin 0.9, but i < 1222876547 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stalin is a scheme impl < 1222876547 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1222876558 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only restricted R*4*RS though < 1222876564 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its hyper-optimizing < 1222876649 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1222876782 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1222876828 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: do you like scheme ? < 1222876828 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KingOfKarlsruhe: yeah lzw is used in gif < 1222877075 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Care to write me a Funge-98 Scheme implementation so that I can add a ^scheme command? < 1222877076 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i deliberately made some things different from scsh? < 1222877092 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: You mean you already *have* written one? < 1222877092 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ( fnord ' dwim) ( dwim) will do anything, and 3 < 1222877112 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's some kickass scheme implementation < 1222877165 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Anything _and_ three! Wow! < 1222877166 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: where is scsh? that is a very original thought....are you a poet? < 1222877215 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'm being dissed here. < 1222877282 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1222877305 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-028-216.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1222877360 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1222878827 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1222878862 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: try using Sponge to compile Sponge itself into Befunge < 1222879890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, there? < 1222879895 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1222879896 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1222879899 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's capable of compiling itself at the moment. < 1222879900 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other side < 1222879914 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: wut is sponge < 1222879925 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sponge - a compiler (in Common Lisp) from a tiny subset of Scheme to Befunge 98." < 1222879947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, Well, copy-pasting the definition of when from http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/dorai/t-y-scheme/t-y-scheme-Z-H-10.html#node_sec_8.1 caused "reference to undefined identifier: IF" when trying to use the macro later < 1222879949 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Didjoo write it? < 1222879956 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: Nopey. < 1222879961 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: case sensitive < 1222879961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, which explains why I couldn't get it to work on it's own < 1222879969 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: should be "if' < 1222879972 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*"if" < 1222879984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1222879991 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: now I'm _sure_ you could have figured that out yourself... < 1222880165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, ok then the other bit: < 1222880167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (when (= 1 1) < 1222880167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (list 1 2 3)) < 1222880167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :readline::379: if: bad syntax (must have an "else" expression) in: (if (= 1 1) (begin (list 1 2 3))) < 1222880182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting if incompatibility it seems < 1222880189 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes. That is odd. < 1222880197 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add the else condition (third if parameter) as (void). < 1222880207 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is what (if x y) means in R5RS. < 1222880213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1222880216 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except you can't do (void) in R5RS. :-P < 1222880219 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah < 1222880220 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's odd < 1222880222 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but easily fixable < 1222880233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, so which one is wrong: fixnum or mzscheme? < 1222880242 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you can always extend it :-) < 1222880259 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Fixnum was right relating to mzscheme when it was written, but mzscheme has changed. < 1222880261 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's all relative. < 1222880268 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, you don't really ever do (if x y). < 1222880273 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess it was just for consistency. < 1222880278 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Maybe I'll just write a Scheme interpreter. How hard can it be? I already wrote one in Prolog, with continuation support and everything. < 1222880296 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Unlimited call/cc in befunge> < 1222880301 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you do that I love yo < 1222880301 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :u < 1222880301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, also I think that macro is somehow messing up the readline history. How strange < 1222880310 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Huh. < 1222880333 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you definitely do (if x y)... like (if debug (display "blah")). < 1222880344 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well, Prolog supports things like data structures :-P < 1222880346 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Ok, true. < 1222880347 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well... < 1222880351 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know. < 1222880353 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lemme check in PLT. < 1222880358 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps AnMaster's installation actually is fucked. :-P < 1222880361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, using up arrow skips anything written in this session up until the end of the when macro definition < 1222880363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems < 1222880371 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MzScheme v4.0.1 doesn't like 'if' without an else branch. < 1222880373 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: odd < 1222880379 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Also odd. < 1222880391 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1222880402 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if debug (display "blah")) is probably not as functional as good scheme should be < 1222880402 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Except when running with "plt-r5rs" when it does "R5RS legacy support loaded".) < 1222880416 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Functional, schmunktional, it's a debugging thing. :p < 1222880420 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: check the docs < 1222880426 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it's easy to add a "#f" else branch there. < 1222880428 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(drscheme->help->plt docs) < 1222880443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, anything specific in those docs? or just in general? < 1222880455 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Search for 'if'? < 1222880458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1222880459 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'if provided from mzscheme's i the resutl yo uwant < 1222880462 0 :slereah!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-60-65.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1222880471 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... < 1222880474 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reads
< 1222880521 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1222880527 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: * Use `when' instead of one-armed `if' (which is no longer allowed). < 1222880528 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha. < 1222880531 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the macro you are writing... < 1222880534 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...is now in the core < 1222880537 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1222880544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, I was just trying an example in the fixnum < 1222880547 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1222880548 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just saying < 1222880556 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: perhaps try < 1222880560 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when-not < 1222880562 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(define-macro when < 1222880566 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1222880568 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(define-macro when-not < 1222880569 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (lambda test . branch) < 1222880575 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : `(when (not ,test) < 1222880583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, maybe "unless"? would be a better name < 1222880584 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (begin ,@branch) < 1222880585 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :)))))))))))))))))))))))))))) < 1222880588 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That too. < 1222880596 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1222880601 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might wanna restart mzscheme if that fails < 1222880604 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really see the reason to be so R5RS-incompatible in that particular case. < 1222880606 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might have mucked up the core 'when' < 1222880612 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: No, nor do I, but oh wlel < 1222880615 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*well < 1222880645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, yeah probably < 1222880771 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why unhygienic define-macro instead of the <3 R5RS define-syntax? :p < 1222880776 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (define-syntax unless (syntax-rules () ((_ test branch ...) (when (not test) branch ...)))) < 1222880780 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (unless #f (display 'yay) (newline)) < 1222880782 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1222880783 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It has define-syntax. < 1222880787 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it also has define-macro. < 1222880787 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which < 1222880791 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is NOT the regular < 1222880793 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unhygenic one < 1222880795 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1222880805 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's way more powerful if I recall correctly < 1222880814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, because that haven't yet been mentioned in fixnum. I guess it may be mentioned later < 1222880822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the only reason < 1222880842 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it sure looks like plain old arbitrary code transformation. < 1222880853 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What with all the quasiquote-unquote stuff. < 1222880878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blame tusho then, since he recommended that site < 1222880879 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1222880885 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1222880888 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That tutorial is good. < 1222880889 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I like the fixnum tutorial too. < 1222880893 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie was just commenting on define-macro. < 1222881001 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's curious that he does point out one way to avoid variable capturing (explicit gensym'ing) and doesn't say a word about hygienic macro systems. < 1222881014 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Probably because they're not the easiest thing to understand at first. < 1222881041 0 :ais523_!i=93bc938c@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-c41cbfaed8dd8819 JOIN :#esoteric < 1222881042 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523_ < 1222881140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523_ yes < 1222881165 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hi? 'ais523_) ==> #t < 1222881172 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I chose a topical way of saying "hi". < 1222881177 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-080-228-190-184.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1222881232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION glares at fizzie
< 1222881238 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: is that in Scheme? < 1222881252 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Yes. < 1222881266 0 :slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie : Write "Hello world!" then < 1222881296 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(display "Hello, world!") (newline) < 1222881301 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BOY THAT WAS HARD < 1222881398 0 :slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1222881416 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^help < 1222881416 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text] < 1222881422 0 :slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could write it in G�del representation, but it's kinda long :D < 1222881500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ccs.neu.edu/home/dorai/t-y-scheme/t-y-scheme-Z-H-11.html#node_sec_9.2 <-- is it just me or is that extremely ugly? < 1222881517 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1222881519 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is ugly. < 1222881525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shudder* < 1222881530 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But readable. < 1222881530 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's probably a bit you too. < 1222881537 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's not the ideal form. < 1222881542 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can read it without too many problems < 1222881545 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't stop it being ugly < 1222881556 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's actually quite pretty < 1222881559 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION chases after the pod man ---##
< 1222881575 0 :slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is that function for? < 1222881595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah, it is a macro not a function < 1222881607 0 :slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what a macro is :( < 1222881618 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That hello-world was a bit too simple, maybe? < 1222881619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well a macro is a (special case of) function too I suppose. < 1222881621 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for-each display (append (map (lambda (i) (string-ref "Hello, world!" i)) (letrec ((iota (lambda (from to) (if (= from to) (cons from '()) (cons from (iota (+ from 1) to)))))) (iota 0 12))) (list #\newline))) < 1222881628 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: macros happen at compile times < 1222881640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, ah yes, but what about interpreters? < 1222881648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of compilers < 1222881656 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: then yes a special case of function < 1222881694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, are compile time macros turing complete I wonder... < 1222881700 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222881703 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as they're just scheme code... < 1222881720 0 :slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1222881722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, would you go as far as saying: scheme functions that happen to be run at compile time < 1222881723 0 :slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o u < 1222881723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1222881733 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes...that is exactly what macros are. < 1222881741 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scheme functions that are run on the code and return code to be compiled,. < 1222881748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, so really a special case of function? compile time functions ;P < 1222881757 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kinda. < 1222881773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry for twisting the terminology around, don't feel bad over it ;)) < 1222881789 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"C U" < 1222881810 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :macros are just scheme code, huh? aren't there things like those weird ellipsis and shit < 1222881823 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopod: They're talking about the "defmacro" style macros. < 1222881843 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ic < 1222881850 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know anything about those < 1222881859 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopod: Well, they're just Scheme code. :p < 1222881860 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except i do now, in case they are just scheme code. < 1222881865 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh :) < 1222881926 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In contrast, R5RS syntax-rules macros specify code transformers using a less powerful language. I don't think I want to make a guess about its Turing-completeness. < 1222881979 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's recursion, though, so they might well be. < 1222882013 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Internets contain claims that they are. < 1222882018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, if they are tc they would be equally powerful to defmacro style, right? < 1222882023 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax-rules is TC < 1222882034 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source: Oleg < 1222882046 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://okmij.org/ftp/Scheme/macros.html#turing-completeness-hygiene < 1222882053 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Oleg has, as far as I know, never been wrong.) < 1222882220 0 :megatron!n=moozilla@d11-110.rb.gh.centurytel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1222882222 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's not like a TC macro system would mean it'd have to be able to do all the code transformations possible with defmacro. For example the unhygienic stuff should not be possible. It just needs to be able to compute everything that's computable, which doesn't say it needs to be able to output sensible Scheme code. < 1222882258 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1222882274 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes < 1222882276 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what http://okmij.org/ftp/Scheme/macros.html#turing-completeness-hygiene says < 1222882277 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1222882832 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1222883381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :While I can certainly see some very very good things with scheme, I have so far two issues with it: 1) you end up with too many ))))) at the end of many expressions for it to be readable. 2) apart from really trivial things it is rather ugly languages, and then I don't mean only macros, but also code with no macros < 1222883461 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 1) Use an editor that balances them. < 1222883465 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Once you know Scheme you rarely notice the parens. < 1222883472 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) It is not ugly, your code is ugly. < 1222883495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, I was also thinking about many examples in fixnum for 2 < 1222883505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just the basic stuff I wrote so far < 1222883507 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Then you're looking at them wrong. < 1222883508 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1222883584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, however I'm convinced (and have been for long) that S-Expressions make a great markup format for data. I'm just not convinced it is a great format for code < 1222883601 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: And I will respectfully disagree. < 1222883610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine with me < 1222884578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, I have a question... < 1222884597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the full list of valid chars in identifiers in scheme? < 1222884603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost everything it seems... but? < 1222884623 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: its in r5rs < 1222884627 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll dig it up in a min < 1222884635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION googles
< 1222885000 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Letters, digits and the set ! $ % & * + - . / : < = > ? @ ^ _ ~, if you didn't already find it. < 1222885118 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And +, -, ., @ can't be the first characters in an identifier, except the special cases +, - and ..., which are all identifiers. < 1222885179 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-44-120.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1222885290 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The rules pretty much come from "an identifier can't begin so that it'd look like a number", and I guess @ is forbidden to make sure that ,@foo is always (unquote-splicing foo) and not (unquote @foo). < 1222885642 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1222885989 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1222886566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, do you have some time? < 1222886576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got a math related question < 1222886621 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the time in the world < 1222886630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was playing around with scheme, defining a gcd function, and entered some random large numbers to it. And then I noticed an odd pattern < 1222886631 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least until supper < 1222886633 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you don't, because i definitelyy have some too < 1222886639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, http://rafb.net/p/i3RhgM20.html < 1222886642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1, 11, 1, 11 < 1222886656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my question is simple: why does it repeat like that < 1222886665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems to do so for even more 3s added < 1222886670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I can't prove it < 1222886675 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1222886677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(tested with another 10) < 1222886680 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know any modular arithmetic? < 1222886692 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopod: it's leased. if anyone claims from either of us, we'll be as screwed as those sub-prime banks < 1222886705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopod, I do know % in C and similar and how to use it for various things < 1222886710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure how much that counts < 1222886731 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well more like, what's 53-235 (mod 7) < 1222886738 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know the reduction rules < 1222886744 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@i-47.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1222886751 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could use those to see what underlies that magic < 1222886758 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1222886759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume that would be basically 53 235 - 7 mod < 1222886761 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know how! < 1222886762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming rpn? < 1222886772 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes, that's what it means < 1222886776 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not what i'm asking < 1222886798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well reduction rules I don't know anything about in this case < 1222886805 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could try taking the first number modulo the second number, and represent them in nicer forms < 1222886810 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you might get something outta that < 1222886812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however I don't know math terminology in English very well < 1222886842 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm multiplying by 10, adding 3. i am not sure that should give a consistent gcd < 1222886845 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, in A B (mod N), you can often do (A % N) (B % N) insteda < 1222886847 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*instead < 1222886867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually the pattern breaks at < 1222886868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (gcd 3237896520375 3094803923233333333333333333333) < 1222886868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :121 < 1222886885 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1222886899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however then why does it repeat so long < 1222886902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still < 1222886924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and after that 121 it goes back to repeating 1/11 for quite a bit < 1222886932 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact that it hits 11 as a factor every second step is the clue. < 1222886947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes hm... < 1222886949 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that it rarely hits anything else may just be random chance < 1222886960 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1222886966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, actually the 121 replaced an 11 not an 1 < 1222886979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there were 1 on both sides of it < 1222886983 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after two steps, you have replaced y by 100y+33 < 1222886995 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if y is divisible by 11, clearly so is the next < 1222886998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1222887002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right makes sense < 1222887035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what is more interesting then is that 121 repeats too, always replacing a 11, and very far from each other < 1222887037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (gcd 3237896520375 30948039232333333333333333333333333333333333333333333) < 1222887038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :121 < 1222887047 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that it cannot be divisible by 11 on the other steps is also likely < 1222887060 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes. this is explainable by moduli < 1222887068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1222887082 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because y%121 will go in a cycle somehow < 1222887083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it is like the 11 pattern, just on larger scale, right? < 1222887107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (gcd 3237896520375 309480392323333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333) seems to be the next 121 < 1222887125 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact the _entire_ gcd should repeat on a sufficiently large scale, as you take the modulus of the second number by the first < 1222887154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1222887173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean all subpatterns too? < 1222887187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this true for any number? say 444... or such? < 1222887207 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you replace y by 10y+3, you replace y%3237896520375 by (10(y%3237896520375)+3) % 3237896520375 < 1222887231 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so each modulus depends only on the previous. and the gcd only depends on that modulus. < 1222887231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I see what you mean... < 1222887318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, there seems to be a pattern for 2 and 4 too, but much larger than that for 3 < 1222887324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah < 1222887331 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah there should be < 1222887344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, however the 3 one was very simple and short < 1222887363 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: suggest a change to the rules of a nomic < 1222887364 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: can you ignore all but the most i can come back and write the program < 1222887396 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thinks fungot has ADHD
< 1222887397 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: another problem is ie5 isn't used by the caller or callee. < 1222887400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, now could there be a larger pattern than the 121-cycle for the "3-case"? Would it in theory be possible to prove? < 1222887446 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well first you can prime factorize 3237896520375 < 1222887465 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because each distinct prime gives an independent part of the cycle < 1222887467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : $ factor 3237896520375 < 1222887467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3237896520375: 3 5 5 5 11 11 71358601 < 1222887496 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you can ignore the 5's since you are multiplying by 10 < 1222887507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah and 11*11 is 121... < 1222887510 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless you also add something divisible by 5) < 1222887516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION considers
< 1222887535 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hitting that last large prime is unlikely < 1222887546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, why is that? < 1222887556 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :often, i mean < 1222887559 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you'd have to have it as a factor somewhere? < 1222887559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1222887569 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh often < 1222887570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, but could it happen? < 1222887580 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: another suggestion? The first one was a bit short, so I want more info < 1222887581 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: hm. does this assume wrapping cells? sounds a bit dirty < 1222887597 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait... fungot actually said something that made sense... < 1222887598 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: some economy shit... https://www.osmosian.com/ cal-3037.zip < 1222887599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and possible 11*71358601 and 11*11*71358601 ? < 1222887611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or am I totally wrong? < 1222887633 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: as i said the cycles of different primes are independent. < 1222887643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1222887655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, however how does that explain 121? < 1222887660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is confused now
< 1222887663 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you hit 121 every n step and 71358601 every m step then you hit both every lcm(m,n) steps < 1222887678 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it did? < 1222887679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah... < 1222887692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so how to compute m? :) < 1222887700 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to look at the 121 part you need only to look at y%121 which repeats too < 1222887710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1222887713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(duh) < 1222887722 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :similarly you can calculate the y%71358601 part < 1222887726 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of the cycle) < 1222887760 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only when that hits 0, do you get it as part of gcd < 1222887807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm is there any quick method of finding out *when* it will hit 0, without trying every one possible number? < 1222887814 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether it actually _does_ hit 0 for all numbers y eventually is another matter. there could be several cycles. < 1222887866 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lessee < 1222887896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lessee? < 1222887918 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this seems to be connected with something called primitive roots < 1222887928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION googles
< 1222887953 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1222887958 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically for any prime p there are some numbers x such that x^n repeats only every p-1 steps < 1222888010 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if 10 is such a number for this prime, then it is likely that every y will hit 0, i think < 1222888033 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lessee < 1222888047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, however it seems it doesn't hit 0 for every y? < 1222888054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3> 309480392323333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333 rem 71358601. < 1222888054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14619800 < 1222888054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4> 3094803923233333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333333 rem 71358601. < 1222888054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3480801 < 1222888076 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you got a cycle? < 1222888100 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that you may expect that hit to happen after 71358601/2 steps on average < 1222888103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, of 71358601? Not as far as I know, all I saw was 1/11 and then 121 < 1222888119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION writes a program to test
< 1222888141 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you want to take modulus after each step, and use that for the next < 1222888149 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise the numbers get huge < 1222888187 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for 121 this should be a short calculation, as it will repeat after <= 121 steps < 1222888201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean like... y 3237896520375 % 10 * 3 + < 1222888201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1222888222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err wait < 1222888258 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y = (10*y+3) % 71358601 < 1222888265 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are checking just that part < 1222888272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1222888293 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but let me see about this primitive root thing < 1222888301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and initial y would be something like 3094803923233333333333333333 then < 1222888344 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you only need to consider y's smaller than the modulus < 1222888368 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or equivalently, take the modulus once as your first step < 1222888380 0 :olsner!n=salparot@79.136.60.96 JOIN :#esoteric < 1222888407 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanted to rewrite that equation a bit < 1222888422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, then 63375004 or something? < 1222888426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1> 3094803923233333333333333333 rem 71358601. < 1222888426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :63375004 < 1222888431 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1222888464 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... to see if my primitive root idea actually makes sense < 1222888480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so (leaving lisp and using erlang) < 1222888486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like: < 1222888487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calc(0) -> < 1222888488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : true; < 1222888488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calc(Y) -> < 1222888488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Y1 = (10*Y+3) rem 71358601, < 1222888488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : calc(Y1). < 1222888514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using 63375004 as initial value < 1222888559 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah provided it actually hits < 1222888576 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise you want to keep a count to know when to stop trying < 1222888588 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(cannot take more than 71358601 steps) < 1222888593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah a sec < 1222888649 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as i said there is a likelyhood it _might_ take 71358600 steps per cycle, and so every number hits except one < 1222888686 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i'm now trying to calculate < 1222888688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calc(_, 71358601) -> false; < 1222888688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calc(0, _) -> true; < 1222888688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calc(Y, Count) -> < 1222888688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : calc((10*Y+3) rem 71358601, Count+1). < 1222888689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1222888701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for calc(63375004, 0) I guess < 1222888703 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1222888742 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might want to return the count < 1222888756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, returns false after a few seconds on my system < 1222888761 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1222888784 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try Y = 0 and returning the count, that gives you the length of the whole cycle < 1222888835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean like: < 1222888839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calc(Y, 71358601) -> {false, Y}; < 1222888840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calc(0, Count) -> {true, Count}; < 1222888840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calc(Y, Count) -> < 1222888840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : calc((10*Y+3) rem 71358601, Count+1). < 1222888840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1222888859 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example yeah < 1222888859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then cycle:calc(0, 0). ? < 1222888863 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222888871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :returns {true,0} < 1222888875 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1222888876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1222888882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it hits 0 there < 1222888885 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(3,0) then < 1222888895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9> cycle:calc(3, 0). < 1222888896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{true,5946549} < 1222888904 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1222888914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, took about 0.1 seconds or so < 1222888915 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means it _doesn't_ hit for every number < 1222888936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, now you confused me < 1222888939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is count < 1222888942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it is true < 1222888964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y was obviously 0 there < 1222889007 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 5946550 is a factor of 71358600, and thus a possible cycle length < 1222889012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, btw for the code to be that fast I had to use HIPE, which compiles into native code instead of erlang byte code, without HIPE it takes several seconds < 1222889032 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a number Y hits 0 only if it is in the unique cycle which contains 0 < 1222889048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1222889049 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has length 5946550, and thus that many members < 1222889061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but wasn't the number 71358601? < 1222889068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or have I missed something < 1222889084 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a technicality < 1222889087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1222889094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ factor 71358600 < 1222889094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :71358600: 2 2 2 3 5 5 118931 < 1222889095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ factor 71358601 < 1222889095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :71358601: 71358601 < 1222889106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if that is any help) < 1222889136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which I guess it isn't) < 1222889157 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there will be _some_ number such that (10*y+3) rem 71358601 == y < 1222889163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ factor 5946550 < 1222889163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5946550: 2 5 5 118931 < 1222889164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw < 1222889198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, independent of any other numbers in front like we originally had? < 1222889205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3094803923233333333333333... < 1222889211 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1222889226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't just 33333... but had some other digits in front < 1222889258 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am talking about a single number y < 1222889265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1222889297 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which sort of gets left out, and so the remaining large cycles get length that is a factor of 71358600 < 1222889328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, why 71358600 and not 71358601? I don't get that < 1222889341 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another way of saying this (probably) is that 5946550 is the smallest number n such that 10^n rem 71358601 == 1 < 1222889410 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a theorem (fermat's little theorem) that x^(p-1) rem p == 1 for every prime p and gcd(x,p) == 1 < 1222889447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it is proved? < 1222889452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or? < 1222889452 0 :Hiato!n=Hiato@dsl-245-40-86.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1222889456 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222889471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1222889501 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is, with some rearranging of equations, where these cycles come from < 1222889530 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x is said to be a primitive root of p if p-1 is the smallest number n such that x^n rem p == 1 < 1222889547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh btw tusho will be scared < 1222889553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aug 11 15:23:57 * tusho will be very scared on the day when AnMaster starts preferring a functional language to C for a lot of tasks. :P < 1222889558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did that just now < 1222889566 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but from what we've calculated so far, i expect 10 is _not_ a primitive root of the prime 71358601 < 1222889576 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what language is it < 1222889579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :used Erlang instead of C, even though I knew Erlang would be slower < 1222889585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it didn't matter < 1222889586 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1222889592 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead 10^5946550 rem 71358601 == 1 < 1222889594 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but erlang lets you microptimize < 1222889598 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and think pretty low-levelly < 1222889600 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disqualified < 1222889612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, I didn't microoptimise < 1222889617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calc(Y, 71358601) -> {false, Y}; < 1222889617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calc(0, Count) -> {true, Count}; < 1222889617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calc(Y, Count) -> < 1222889617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : calc((10*Y+3) rem 71358601, Count+1). < 1222889619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was all < 1222889624 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1222889625 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1222889643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, it was the natural way to write it, in the natural language to write it < 1222889650 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1222889652 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1222889664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, and it was functional and tail recursive :P < 1222889690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, non-tail recursive wouldn't have worked since we hit 5946549 iterations < 1222889702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so what is a primitive root to that prime? < 1222889726 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1222889736 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've guessed wrongly < 1222889741 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er no < 1222889746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1222889750 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scratch that, i got confused < 1222889757 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am right after all :D < 1222889791 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't personally know any way to find a primitive root other than testing random candidates < 1222889811 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they do exist, by theorem < 1222889828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, are they larger or smaller than the prime? < 1222889832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or both? < 1222889832 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :smaller < 1222889834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1222889845 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only modulos vs. the prime count, after all < 1222889849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then an exhaustive search shouldn't be that bad < 1222889854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the prime is pretty small after all < 1222889882 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lessee < 1222889889 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :71358600: 2 2 2 3 5 5 118931 < 1222889893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Primitive_root_modulo_n#Finding_primitive_roots relevant? < 1222889905 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite likely < 1222889918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I got to say that text is over my head though :( < 1222889937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even more so since it is in English, and I really lack the math terminology in English < 1222889992 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case it's probably easier just to test candidates. < 1222890008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't work out the needed maths < 1222890060 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be 1*1*1*2*4*4*118930 primitive roots of 71358601, by the above factorization if i am correct < 1222890069 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so hitting one is not too hard < 1222890122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3805760, thats a lot < 1222890167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, however I still fail at the maths for it < 1222890224 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want to calculate x^n rem 71358601 and check how fast it hits 1 < 1222890239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with steps of n+1? < 1222890271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1222890273 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y1 = (Y0*X) rem 71358601 in something resembling your calc function < 1222890280 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heyyy i've read the primitive root proof for prime rings < 1222890301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, were does X come from? < 1222890312 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the candidate < 1222890314 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :primitive roots < 1222890316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1222890320 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are so cool < 1222890332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, which is a huge list that I map the function on or something? < 1222890336 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop solving your problem bask in their coolness < 1222890339 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*problem and < 1222890374 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well if you want to find _all_ primitive roots < 1222890380 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :No route to host < 1222890386 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you probably want to stop at the first hit i guess < 1222890390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1222890423 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 and 1 cannot be primitive roots, so start with 2 and go up from there < 1222890495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so: initial value for X = 2, Initial value for Y = ? < 1222890506 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 or X < 1222890526 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, X < 1222890535 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(makes testing easier i think) < 1222890540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION considers
< 1222890558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and when to stop for each? < 1222890574 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when Y == 1 < 1222890609 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you return the count, which should be the smallest n such that X^n rem p == 1 < 1222890620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf I must have this mixed up < 1222890622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calc_root(X, Y, 71358601) -> {false, X, Y}; < 1222890622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calc_root(X, 1, Count) -> {true, X, Count}; < 1222890622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calc_root(X, Y, Count) -> < 1222890622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Y1 = (Y*X) rem 71358601 < 1222890623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : calc(X, Y1, Count+1). < 1222890626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes no sense < 1222890671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also should be calc_root < 1222890675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but even then it makes no sense < 1222890686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, you confused me now < 1222890726 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first line is unnecessary < 1222890747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, even so what about incrementing X? < 1222890754 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the true of the second should be Count == 71358600 < 1222890789 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is just the function for checking one candidate < 1222890798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1222890799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1222890801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calc_root(X, Y, 71358600) -> {true, X, Y}; < 1222890801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calc_root(X, Y, Count) -> < 1222890801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Y1 = (Y*X) rem 71358601 < 1222890801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : calc_root(X, Y1, Count+1). < 1222890809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err? < 1222890817 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um not quite < 1222890823 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1222890825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed it seems wrong < 1222890862 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can make the second line calc_root(X, 1, Count) -> calc_root(X+1,X+1, 1); < 1222890892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION considers this
< 1222890904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well a bit more sense < 1222890915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, any more errors? < 1222890917 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that goes on to the next candidate < 1222890931 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that should work < 1222890956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well apart from the missing comma < 1222890957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1222890989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calc_root(2,2,1). or calc_root(2,2,0). for initial call then? < 1222891007 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former < 1222891012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20> cycle:calc_root(2,2,1). < 1222891012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{false,7,1} < 1222891017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :took several seconds < 1222891024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue how to interpret that answer < 1222891040 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1222891047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and it seems wrong? < 1222891056 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not possible from what i thought we'd agreed on :D < 1222891065 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since there is no false in that program < 1222891072 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok: < 1222891078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1222891078 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calc_root(X, Y, 71358600) -> {true, X, Y}; < 1222891079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION checks
< 1222891085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1222891088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I had false there < 1222891090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason < 1222891099 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but otherwise the same? < 1222891099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but otherwise the same < 1222891101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222891116 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then 7 should be a primitive root of 71358601 < 1222891125 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the smallest, too < 1222891130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is easy to verify I assume? < 1222891147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reads on wikipedia
< 1222891152 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah but that's what you just did :) < 1222891192 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1222891195 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1222891195 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1222891200 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1222891200 0 :moozilla!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1222891202 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1222891215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, err wikipedia says g^k = a (mod n) <-- that would be --> 71358601 ^ ??? = ?? (mod 7) < 1222891219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or? < 1222891234 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have some characters there i cannot read i think < 1222891251 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1222891251 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're question marks < 1222891251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, they are really question marks < 1222891257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I don't know what to put there < 1222891270 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g=7, n=71358601 < 1222891275 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a=1 < 1222891281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, k? < 1222891296 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ends up being 71358600 < 1222891334 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1222891343 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are looking at the initial paragraph? < 1222891347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yep < 1222891377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, basically I don't trust that program I wrote < 1222891390 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right in that case a is any number such that gcd(7, a) == 1 < 1222891411 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait < 1222891421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, *you* verify it ;P < 1222891422 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcd(71358601, a) == 1 < 1222891439 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an alternative definition < 1222891440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't trust my own code at this time of the night < 1222891506 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-94-65.w81-50.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1222891520 0 :Hiato!n=Hiato@dsl-245-40-86.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1222891520 0 :oklopod!n=nnscript@a91-153-123-88.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1222891520 0 :moozilla!n=moozilla@d11-110.rb.gh.centurytel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1222891520 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1222891520 0 :lifthrasiir!n=lifthras@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1222891520 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1222891604 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't want to use that definition for checking. for that you want to use the "n is the smallest number such that x^n == 1 (mod p)" version < 1222891615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, you check < 1222891618 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, p-1 < 1222891642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, also isn't that what we did just before? < 1222891654 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i said :D < 1222891679 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : well yeah but that's what you just did :) < 1222891681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, but that is hardly a verification :/ < 1222891694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I mean verifying that my program was right < 1222891695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1222891714 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i could try and rewrite in haskell < 1222891727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, would be easy I guess? < 1222891730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ probably faster < 1222891742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erlang isn't really that good at math intensive stuff < 1222891749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that it was very slow at all < 1222891752 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know about faster since i'm using Hugs < 1222891762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hugs is an interpreter? < 1222891764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or? < 1222891768 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1222891772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION somehow assumed ghc
< 1222891784 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't everyone < 1222891794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not ghc then? < 1222891817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, would be nice to know how long it takes in hugs < 1222891838 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm on windows and ghc's readline doesn't work there, is my current excuse < 1222891854 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so WinHugs is a better interface < 1222891856 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never really missed it myself < 1222891894 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmd.exe remembers prior commands by itself and that's sufficed for me < 1222891925 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm talking about the haskell toplevel < 1222891943 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes < 1222891944 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is < 1222891944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, in erlang, compiled to native code using hipe, it takes about 9 seconds (clock: count aloud). This is on my 64-bit Sempron 3300+ (2 GHz) < 1222891946 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmd.exe retains history < 1222891948 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for everything < 1222891955 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just use ghc in cmd.exe < 1222891964 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1222891969 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't know that < 1222891984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, how would that work with cygwin? and ncurses apps under cygwin < 1222891987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shudders
< 1222891988 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you lose stuff like tab completion and ^U and such from readline, I guess < 1222891993 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It wouldn't. < 1222891996 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You just use xterm. < 1222892000 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never used cmd.exe with cygwin < 1222892006 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ne regrettons pas le passé, ne nous préoccupons pas de l'avenir : le sage vit dans le présent." < 1222892079 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait i remember something < 1222892085 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dagobah.biz/flash/light-bot.swf forgot to paste < 1222892100 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a faster way to check primitive roots once you know the factorization of p-1 < 1222892107 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i scored 194, didn't even realize the commands were counted, so i'll improve if someone gets a better score < 1222892145 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't do the second-last (IIRC) < 1222892159 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you can check only the factors of p-1 as powers < 1222892163 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's trivial < 1222892188 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f2 goes 4 steps forward, f1 does two f2's, and turns & jumps, main just loops f1 < 1222892211 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to turn in alternating directions, no? < 1222892215 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :71358600: 2 2 2 3 5 5 118931 < 1222892221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, no 7 there... < 1222892226 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't even consider the possibility someone couldn't pass it :P < 1222892233 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: yes, hardcode the other dir in main < 1222892234 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not what i meant < 1222892245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh well, what did you mean then? < 1222892249 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just repasted for reference < 1222892261 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopod: I ran out of space < 1222892261 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again adapting to weird flash games fast is my specialty < 1222892276 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I did something stupidly but that sounds like pretty much exactly what I did, and I ran out of space :-P < 1222892294 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need only check 7^n for n = 71358600/2, 71358600/3, 71358600/5 and 71358600/118931 < 1222892300 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i had like a third of the cells empty < 1222892324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, you do that? :) < 1222892324 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if neither of those rem to 1, then the whole of 71358600 must be the smallest < 1222892339 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like there's no way to skip to that level < 1222892345 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can't be bothered to take another look < 1222892352 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :understandable < 1222892358 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a very annoying ui < 1222892363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, since 7^71358600 seems to take ages to compute < 1222892379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oklopod: Please tell a user without flash wtf you are talking about? < 1222892388 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a game < 1222892392 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you program this bot < 1222892395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopod, details? screenshot? < 1222892401 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a very simple language < 1222892404 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very interesting really < 1222892404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1222892449 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah indeed < 1222892459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ? < 1222892461 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i disagree, it's just the levels suck. < 1222892475 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it had recursion or something else it would be cool < 1222892479 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure that's a very interesting problem, although i haven't proven it :P < 1222892484 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it is... meh < 1222892484 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need to use the mod at each step trick together with binary powering < 1222892494 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's no programming, because there's no control, indeed < 1222892516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah 7^71358600 is one of those too large to fit into a computer? < 1222892518 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a working concept, it has some computational issues < 1222892522 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means writing my own power function < 1222892538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, doesn't haskell have some ready made for that? < 1222892539 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: er, that too i guess < 1222892552 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not with automatic modulus < 1222892572 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1222892587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, assume I don't know haskell, maybe I will try to learn it once I actually understood scheme macros ;P < 1222892595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find them awfully confusing < 1222892619 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i _could_ write a datatype for mod 71358601 calculations < 1222892621 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scheme macros aren't very like Haskell... < 1222892639 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the power function would be automatic but i would have to write the rest < 1222892656 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but they are simple < 1222892669 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :monads aren't, they are an impossible concept to grasp < 1222892674 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one gets them < 1222892729 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i get them < 1222892766 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: don't give AnMaster false hope. < 1222892775 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopod: but it'll be amusing < 1222892798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I never claimed they were < 1222892799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1222892809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is just that I want to finish one thing before I start another < 1222892884 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION actually did that, even if it sounded silly
< 1222892895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, did what? < 1222892904 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Main> [(Mods 7)^n| x <- [2,3,5,118931], let n = 71358601 `quot` x] < 1222892904 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Mods 71358600,Mods 56502137,Mods 13189798,Mods 68358277] :: [Mods] < 1222892917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, err? < 1222892956 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i made a Mods datatype that implemented mod 71358601 multiplication and almost nothing else, then the ordinary haskell ^ worked on it :D < 1222892972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, interesting < 1222892979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and makes haskell look really insane < 1222893033 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data Mods = Mods Integer deriving (Show, Eq) < 1222893033 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instance Num Mods where fromInteger n = Mods (n `rem` 71358601) (Mods m) * (Mods n) = Mods ((m*n) `rem` 71358601) < 1222893128 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is one of the _simple_ uses of haskell type classes < 1222893155 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are far more insane things involving it < 1222893207 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway that above was my check, it took less than a second to execute < 1222893247 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 passes by the fact that none of the list elements are Mod 1 < 1222893496 0 :CO2Games!n=CO2Games@75-163-236-8.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1222893712 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah also: < 1222893714 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10*(y+1/3) - 1/3 < 1222893728 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a way of rewriting 10*y+3 < 1222893813 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it implies that with respect to any modulus p where division by 3 makes sense, you can shift y to remove the addition. < 1222893831 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means any p not divisible by 3 itself < 1222893875 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words, after shifting this whole problem really does become just iterated multiplication by 10 < 1222893907 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what problem are you actually trying to solve? < 1222893915 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um now what is the equivalence of 1/3 (mod 71358601) < 1222893952 0 :kr4shr!n=Miranda@217.118.78.37 JOIN :#esoteric < 1222894064 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :47572401 * 3 == 1 (mod  71358601) < 1222894088 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 1/3 == 47572401 for this purpose < 1222894140 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr: AnMaster found some interesting repeating behavior when calculating gcd's: see http://rafb.net/p/i3RhgM20.html < 1222894192 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we got into explaining that, and ended up with primitive roots and stuff < 1222894201 0 :kr4shr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection reset by peer < 1222894303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : anyway that above was my check, it took less than a second to execute < 1222894303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 7 passes by the fact that none of the list elements are Mod 1 < 1222894318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that mean that 7 wasn't a valid result? < 1222894330 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that means 7 is a primitive root < 1222894334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1222894349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1222894372 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since 7^n is _not_ 1 for those n's tested there, the smallest possibility remaining is the one we want, 71358600 < 1222894375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 47572401 * 3 == 1 (mod [007F] 71358601) <--?? < 1222894390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was that char I'm missing? < 1222894394 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1222894395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :utf8 encoded? < 1222894431 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that was a ^V that happened when i got confused about cut/paste between windows and xterm. i didn't see it myself. < 1222894453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1222894457 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does this look the same: ? < 1222894469 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1222894474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, that is a question mark < 1222894477 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe this:  ? < 1222894479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1222894496 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a ^V followed by delete < 1222894498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[007F] < 1222894519 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^V inserts a character literally in irssi i think < 1222894548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ^V in most terminals means "treat next char as literal, not escape code" iirc < 1222894563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if that is terminal or app < 1222894564 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :control-shift-V is paste in gnome-terminal < 1222894587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^V^C in bash in console inserts a literal ^C, that is one char wide according to arrow keys < 1222894615 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irssi is sort of bash or emacs inspired i think < 1222894653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely not emacs I'd say < 1222894659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't stand it's key bindings < 1222894673 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash's keybindings are loosely based on Emacs < 1222894673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how goes gcc-bf? < 1222894677 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it uses readline < 1222894682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why are you not on your laptop < 1222894687 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not this week, it's a really bad week for me to do other things < 1222894688 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah it's readline then < 1222894701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes unless you use set -o vi < 1222894702 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I didn't bring it with me because I was giving people a tour of Birmingham City Center < 1222894722 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: would that mean that typing h would move the cursor to the left? That would be pretty hard to use in a shell... < 1222894730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I got no clue < 1222894732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never tried < 1222894741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it may be set +o vi < 1222894742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too < 1222894749 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: maybe you need some ESC characters too < 1222894793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1222894810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems esc and a changes between the two modes in it yes < 1222894814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty confusing still < 1222894820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*worse* than real vi < 1222894824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is confusing enough < 1222894834 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real vi isn't too bad when you get used to it < 1222894840 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I haven't, so I find it confusing < 1222894848 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see how it would be good if I ever learnt it, though < 1222894852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, same, nano or emacs for me < 1222894864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh and vi *really really* sucks on dvorak < 1222894873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emacs does that too, but not as much < 1222894901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact many apps seem to assume qwerty in their key bindings < 1222894904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which sucks < 1222894915 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder: is zsh' "bindkey -v" better than Bash's Vi mode? < 1222894928 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, hjkl has got to be awkward then < 1222894936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well yes it would be < 1222894947 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not being a Vi user, I can't exactly comment. < 1222894953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, nor am I < 1222894959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you use emacs pikhq ? < 1222894960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1222894968 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed, I do. < 1222894971 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I use zsh. < 1222894974 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hjkl are the basic cursor movement commands in vi (although nowadays you can use arrow keys too) < 1222894978 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Emacs of shells. :) < 1222894982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-pikhq- VERSION irssi v0.8.12 - running on Linux x86_64 < 1222894982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1222894990 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use it as my IRC client. < 1222894990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use the power of emacs like I do < 1222894997 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it should use NetHack-keys too < 1222894997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-AnMaster- VERSION ERC Version 5.3 - an IRC client for emacs (http://emacswiki.org/cgi-bin/wiki/ERC (mailing list: erc-discuss@gnu.org)) < 1222895002 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use Emacs as my editor. < 1222895002 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where yubn go diagonally < 1222895016 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I use a whole load of editors < 1222895020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I use numpad in nethack < 1222895031 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs, gedit, kate, notepad, vim.tiny, nano, cat, sed < 1222895037 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: my laptop doesn't have a numpad < 1222895045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah true for a laptop... < 1222895049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :painful < 1222895059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, which is why I use a full size PC keyboard < 1222895061 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1222895064 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like hjklyubn < 1222895075 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although < 1222895081 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jkl;uinm would be better < 1222895088 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then the right hand could stay in the usual home position < 1222895091 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah anyone noticed me writing 7q45t before? :D < 1222895100 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :home position being one to the left in vi and NetHack is really confusing... < 1222895105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, jkluiom,. you mean? < 1222895114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or top to bottom < 1222895115 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's what happens when i /quit and forget i have numpad on) < 1222895118 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: heh, different keyboard layout < 1222895123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uio jkl m,. < 1222895130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :following same diagonal < 1222895147 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, NetHack letter keys don't work like that < 1222895149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with i at the top < 1222895158 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the left down up right are all in a row < 1222895170 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can have one on each of the non-thumb fingers on the right hand < 1222895172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes that is even more confusing < 1222895175 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :789uiojkl < 1222895177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :long live wasd < 1222895178 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the diagonals are positioned to be easy to reach with the index finger < 1222895182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and arrow keys < 1222895183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1222895200 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasd is awful, how are you meant to press the s without moving your hand position? < 1222895219 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I wrote games when I was younger, I generally used zx.; < 1222895224 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to have left-right and up-down on different hands < 1222895238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err easy, you the 3 middle fingers on a s d, then you can move the middle one up to w if you need < 1222895270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION waits as ais523 try it out
< 1222895283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well? < 1222895295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, works well doesn't it? < 1222895314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway if time is critical I would use a joystick < 1222895336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ozhardware.com.au/images/stories/review_images/Input%20Devices/Saitek%20X52%20Pro/x52top.jpg <-- something like that < 1222895342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I own one of those) < 1222895413 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Joysticks suck < 1222895413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11 axes and something like 35 buttons, though not as many physical buttons (for example those switches at the base of the joystick register as one button when moved up, and another when moved down) < 1222895417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, depends < 1222895425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, for flight sim they rock :) < 1222895437 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but flight sims are terminally boring :P < 1222895449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, + this one doesn't have noisy potentiometers (spelling?) < 1222895453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it use the hall effect < 1222895459 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you spelt it correctly < 1222895470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, so no irritating noise either < 1222895517 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... maybe someone could make an editor where the keyboard just inserted and backspaced text, and cursor movement, etc., was done with a joystick < 1222895543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, implemented in intercal? < 1222895844 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants a 4-dimensional flight simulator
< 1222895886 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopod: AWESOME < 1222895886 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write it < 1222895931 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should, it's just i've yet to write even a 3-dimensional physics engine. < 1222895952 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for some reason there isn't that much material about 4-dimensional physics. < 1222895962 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, n-dimensional < 1222895984 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see why anyone would care about techniques for such an arbitrary number of dimensions as 3 < 1222896024 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, a generic n-dimensional physics engine would most likely be just as simple to write as a 3d one, it's just it might be a bit hard to debug < 1222896040 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is showing it onscreen < 1222896056 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe typical 3D graphics techniques can be used to project 4 dimensions onto 3 < 1222896058 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can project twice < 1222896060 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then 3 onto 2 < 1222896060 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopod: i think it's some nonsense about gravitational orbits being strangely stable in 3 dimensions, or something < 1222896061 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a screen < 1222896063 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222896067 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works, £ ais523 < 1222896070 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*@ ais523 < 1222896077 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1222896085 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopod: what keyboard has £ next to @? < 1222896085 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either 4->3->2 or two projections of 3->2 < 1222896088 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i see, i didn't know that < 1222896092 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: british ones < 1222896098 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 (shift=@) < 1222896099 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shift-3 is £ on a UK keyboard, shift-2 is @ on a US keyboard < 1222896100 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 (shift=£) < 1222896107 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: british mac ones < 1222896107 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1222896107 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but shift-2 is " on a UK keyboard < 1222896113 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finnish keyboard has altgr-2 = @, altgr-3 = £. < 1222896114 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: not in os x < 1222896117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16823200010 <-- is it a keyboard... or a keyboard? < 1222896118 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1222896119 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alt-gr + 2 = @ < 1222896119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or both? < 1222896120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1222896121 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: thats more likely < 1222896122 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shift + 2 = " < 1222896141 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That'd be HELL for your wrists! < 1222896146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, yeah < 1222896148 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowhere to rest when typing... < 1222896153 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless it's retractable? < 1222896156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, unless you can retract it < 1222896157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well no idea < 1222896160 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :snap < 1222896161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, I just saw that < 1222896162 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1222896163 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it LOOKS retractable < 1222896166 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.newegg.com/Product/ShowImage.aspx?Image=23-200-010-01.jpg&S7ImageFlag=0&WaterMark=1&Item=N82E16823200010&Depa=0&Description=Creative%20Gray%2fBlack%20Keyboard < 1222896166 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are lots of ways to project 4-dimensional things to 3d or 2d. None of them produce anything I can really grasp, but at least it's pretty pictures. < 1222896177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, pretty low res image < 1222896178 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1222896188 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you would probably learn, at least to some extent < 1222896197 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, if you actually "lived" in the world for a while < 1222896200 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've used one of Creative's Prodikeys keyboards. < 1222896201 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by that i mean manouvered < 1222896231 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not retractable, but there's a removable plastic cover working as wrist-rest on top of the piano-keyboard part. < 1222896241 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least in the model I've seen. < 1222896244 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure about that one. < 1222896249 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1222896251 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just get a seperate synth < 1222896252 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1222896260 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopod: if you lived in it your retina would probably be 3-dimensional < 1222896340 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to remember there being some physics things that didn't work all too well for even number of dimensions, but no recollection of the details. < 1222896359 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: presumably because they arose in a 3d universe < 1222896380 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho: huh? < 1222896396 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i was not talking about actual living. < 1222896398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, same < 1222896405 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like moving a game character around < 1222896408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact I got a separate synth < 1222896419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.etcetera.co.uk/products/images/ProdikeysInfoBG.jpg < 1222896448 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there's the plastic cover. < 1222896470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I still think it would be awful < 1222896524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://images.techtree.com/ttimages/story/72065_prodikey_dm_big_picture_resize.jpg <-- that one looks slightly better < 1222896528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not same model < 1222896547 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that plastic cover < 1222896552 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be fine, except it needs moar padding < 1222896556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho, yes < 1222896568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other plastic cover looks awful though < 1222897149 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that one looks a lot more like the one I used. < 1222897156 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it wasn't _mine_, I just had to use it. < 1222897167 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The jews forced you to use it. < 1222897191 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was that second pitch-wheel-type control, at least. < 1222897659 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : DO CONTINUATIONS DREAM OF MONADIC SHEEP < 1222897690 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never got an answer to that < 1222897697 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | befunge is a hybrid of several things < 1222897701 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, unfortunately < 1222897707 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: Which things? < 1222897708 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: time xor ref print chr int ord lc < 1222897725 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARE THERE ANY CONTINUATIONS HERE WHO COULD TELL US? < 1222897726 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders how many of those things are part of befunge
< 1222897726 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's an... interesting definition of Befunge. < 1222897755 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I don't know if continuations dream < 1222897755 0 :megatron!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1222897768 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they live in serene grace, ready to tweak the time flow < 1222897770 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: the elder god things are not technically part of it. but don't let that reassure you. < 1222897781 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe they live in perpetual fear of being garbage-collected < 1222897790 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1222897800 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does unlambda.i do continuations anyway? CPS? < 1222897813 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be interesting to make a version that uses my INTERCAL continuation library < 1222897837 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :continuations are a structure on the heap iirc < 1222897852 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must work on that enhancement to INTERCAL which lets you do first-class functions < 1222897857 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but without garbage collection < 1222897897 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically it would create virtual programs < 1222897910 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the real one but where the ignorance status of some variables was "stuck" and they couldn't be remembered < 1222897921 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the virtual programs could steal control from the real one using NEXT FROM < 1222897924 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or COME FROM < 1222897931 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and likewise the real program could steal back control < 1222897949 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that only happened if a virtual program could do a COME FROM but the real one couldn't < 1222897970 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, you can use stuck variables to implement lambdas, although you have to generate names for the anonymous functions at runtime < 1222897981 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely certain how function return would work yet, though < 1222898029 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably have the NEXT stack work out which world it's in < 1222898049 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and with a bit of trickery you could get infinite recursion by maintaing stacks oneself < 1222898056 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :garbage collection would be a pain, though < 1222898083 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : PLEASE NOTE 3=TOP 2=BOTH 1=LAST < 1222898104 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think those are the tag numbers for the continuation cells < 1222898165 0 :moozilla!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"- nbs-irc 2.37 - www.nbs-irc.net -" < 1222898202 0 :moozilla!n=moozilla@d11-110.rb.gh.centurytel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1222898225 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders the thought of getting gcc to generate INTERCAL
< 1222898238 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it would work better than gcc-bf, INTERCAL's more asm-like than BF is < 1222898253 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance it is capable of dereferencing pointers efficiently, something BF is really bad at < 1222898315 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :running out of line numbers would be a potential problem < 1222898330 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'd have to maintain the call stack by hand, I think < 1222898487 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: Are you funny ? < 1222898489 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KingOfKarlsruhe: s < 1222898802 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1222899127 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1222899297 0 :creepa!i=creepa@unaffiliated/creepa JOIN :#esoteric < 1222899308 0 :creepa!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1222899414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why no garbage collection? < 1222899424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway you could solve that, allow some sort of free() < 1222899429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no GC needed < 1222899461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or? < 1222899463 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for higher-order first class functions, free() is generally insufficient < 1222899472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, why is that? < 1222899475 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because lifetime gets too unpredictable < 1222899489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, free it when you are done with it? < 1222899516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or? < 1222899534 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what I mean is, most functional langs do GC < 1222899538 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but functional INTERCAL wouldn't < 1222899542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes they do < 1222899546 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will allow some sort of free, not sure how though < 1222899557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also I think a.l.i would hate if you made it functional! < 1222899562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really really hate you < 1222899569 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, no they wouldn't, as long as it wasn't obviously functional < 1222899576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, really? < 1222899588 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a higher-order function may not know who is responsible for freeing a function < 1222899590 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just going to add a language feature that gave INTERCAL some way of doing first-class functions if you're willing to go through convolutions < 1222899602 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLC-INTERCAL supports classes, and Claudio wasn't hated for that < 1222899712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wait... does this mean intercal could have functions like map and such? < 1222899737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes and lectures < 1222899740 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, if you could deal with the gc issues < 1222899744 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they'd take a while to write < 1222899752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, actually how does the lecture differ from normal classes and objects? < 1222899756 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but classes & lectures is an object-orientation system really < 1222899759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the name or? < 1222899771 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you don't use it quite the same way < 1222899781 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you never specify explicitly which class an object is in < 1222899791 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead you specify a few lectures (=methods) that you want the class to have < 1222899800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then? < 1222899802 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :object=student, by the way < 1222899809 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then it picks a class which implements all of those methods < 1222899821 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inheritance is possible too some way I think, I've forgotten how though < 1222899826 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and polymorphism works fine < 1222899829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hehe < 1222899851 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one unusual restriction is that all the lecture names have to be valid as times < 1222899855 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as (0930) < 1222899857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I was reading a.l.i on google and come across calls, (phone calls) < 1222899861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very... nice touch < 1222899879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, or 0931? < 1222899883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or how? < 1222899885 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be fine too < 1222899892 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but times that are too late are rejected < 1222899902 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the interp doesn't want to have to go to a lecture at midnight or so < 1222899903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you mean like 1830? < 1222899912 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1830 is probably fine < 1222899914 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about lectures that are too close? < 1222899915 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2330 wouldn't be < 1222899920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh < 1222899930 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I don't think those are detected, maybe they ought to be though < 1222899970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have short ones < 1222899975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example 15 minutes < 1222900053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway making intercal functional would be nice yeah < 1222900056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for gc for map < 1222900064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that hard really? < 1222900073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you create the function, call map, free it < 1222900080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or? < 1222900098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ? < 1222900122 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's too hard < 1222900130 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem comes if you want to use the same argument in more than one place < 1222900136 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a lang like Unlambda it's easy < 1222900158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, create the function again each time? < 1222900169 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, deep-copy when duplicating is one way it would work < 1222900174 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that's an utter pain to do < 1222900180 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and very inefficient < 1222900181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why duplicate it? < 1222900195 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: otherwise you have problems figuring out where to free it < 1222900201 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can free it either in the called function or the caller < 1222900203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if I malloc a block in C it is up to me to free it < 1222900206 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but neither works properly < 1222900208 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I know < 1222900217 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :functional programs are a real pain to write in C without boehm-gc or similar < 1222900249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if I create a fun in erlang (yes gc...) I can often easily say when it would be out of scope < 1222900267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least functions in argument lists that are just called should be easy < 1222900272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like in map < 1222900278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :caller can just free it on return of map < 1222900304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it returns a function, then you can free it when you are done with it < 1222900319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if you plan to reuse the function often, just let it hang around < 1222900334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a fun pointing to a function implemented in a module in erlang < 1222900343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun module:name/arity < 1222900348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in contrast with: < 1222900373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun(x) -> x * x end. < 1222900376 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :caller freeing seems to make the most sense < 1222900419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yeah basically same style as you do with malloc/free in C when possible < 1222900440 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I seem to have screwed it up < 1222900448 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at all the memory leaks in C-INTERCAL for instance < 1222900462 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... problem < 1222900464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually I often try to avoid it totally by using on stack variables if they are small and of known size, much easier to manage) < 1222900473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ? < 1222900474 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose you build a data structure, like a binary tree, out of functions < 1222900482 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you have a function that traverses it recursively < 1222900490 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you want to traverse the tree twice < 1222900505 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you know not to free the nodes of the tree the first time round? < 1222900543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, suppose you malloc nodes in a linked list with downlinks in C... You use a function to traverse it several times, how do you know how to not free the first time? < 1222900558 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C you know the control flow of your program, so you hardcode it < 1222900561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact I would use a final free function that traversed the structure and freed < 1222900573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and this isn't possible in intercal? < 1222900574 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a functional lang you don't generally know the structure of the functions you're manipulating < 1222900582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1222900587 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easily possible in INTERCAL < 1222900595 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just functional langs really don't like manual malloc/free < 1222900602 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because ther information about what needs freeing gets lost easilt < 1222900604 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*easily < 1222900614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so A(tree); B(tree); C(tree); freerecursive(tree); < 1222900618 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1222900629 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now suppose you're using map on a list of trees < 1222900635 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does map know not to free the trees? < 1222900644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why would map free it? < 1222900654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well map(free, tree); would < 1222900655 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok, so nothing ever frees automatically < 1222900658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1222900665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :map(a, tree); wouldn't < 1222900670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, like in C :) < 1222900705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you need intercalgrind too I guess ;P < 1222900720 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't be too hard, actually < 1222900729 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL is one of the langs where that sort of thing would be easiest to hook onto a program < 1222900736 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you NEXT FROM malloc and free, and double-return < 1222900741 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the original malloc and free never get to run < 1222900748 0 :danopia!n=danopia@fullcirclemagazine/developer/danopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1222900755 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi danopia < 1222900777 0 :danopia!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1222900779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well obviously you would have to translate it to intercalish terms < 1222900800 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably I'd just call it calgrind < 1222900813 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... maybe I could even write a garbage-collector for INTERCAL < 1222900821 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would have to know what was and what wasn't a pointer somehow, though < 1222900827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I think GC is often the wrong answer to most problems < 1222900855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are better ways, like proper resource mangaging, and using valgrind before each commit to make sure you haven't introduced new leaks < 1222900856 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, spoken like a true C programmer, but I agree to some extent < 1222900863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easier to fix it then < 1222900878 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw a paper arguing that programming in languages with GC was about 10 times faster than programming in languages without < 1222900924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, very possible, and I'm fine with GC in erlang. But intercal will never be a pure functional language (which erlang almost is, with a few exceptions: process dictionary, eds tables) < 1222900948 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: never write "intercal will never be" in a sentence again < 1222900965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, pure functional would indicate single assignment < 1222900972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that is realistic < 1222900985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and yes with single assignment you do need gc < 1222900986 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I have plans to remove assignment from INTERCAL altogether < 1222901002 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which involve effective single assignment, but without changing the variable name < 1222901002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that would break existing apps < 1222901012 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it wouldn't, that's the clever part < 1222901012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so would have to be optional < 1222901017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err what? < 1222901039 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, beforehand, .1 <- .1 $ .2 assigns the mingle of onespot 1 and onespot 2 to onespot 1 < 1222901044 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is simple enough < 1222901056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222901076 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the new system, .1 <- .1 $ .2 solves the equation (new value of onespot 1) = (old value of onespot 1 mingle old value of onespot 2) < 1222901081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well obviously you could translate it to SSA internally, GCC does that iirc < 1222901090 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the arrowhead means that the .1 on the left refers to the new value < 1222901098 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and - causes both sides to become equal by changing only new values < 1222901105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1222901113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that is in effect mutable variables < 1222901142 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so writing .1 - .1 $> .2 would instead find a new value of .2 that was a right-invariant for .1 under mingling < 1222901147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could say x = x + y; solves the equation for a new x < 1222901159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in effect x2 = x1 + y1; < 1222901160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however < 1222901169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the exact same thing as mutable variable < 1222901183 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason is that in complicated stuff like .1 $> .1 <- .2 $> .1 < 1222901193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I don't understand that < 1222901193 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's clearly an "old .1" and a "new .1" < 1222901211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't code intercal remember < 1222901225 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means solve o1 mingle n1 = o2 mingle n1 for n1 < 1222901233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah interesting < 1222901284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1> 2 + 2 = 3 + 1. < 1222901284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 < 1222901287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, somewhat like that? < 1222901300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2> 2 + 4 = 3 + 1. < 1222901301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :** exception error: no match of right hand side value 4 < 1222901317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pattern matching < 1222901322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it rocks :) < 1222901359 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not exactly < 1222901361 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more equation solving < 1222901367 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like 4 * x = x + 2 < 1222901373 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure of an efficient way to do it < 1222901380 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and may have to use brute-force as a fallback strategy < 1222901388 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, I think addition can be written in one statement using that < 1222901404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, CAS manages it just fine? < 1222901412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like maxima < 1222901455 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not quite sure whether ais523_ wants to embed a CAS in the INTERCAL compiler < 1222901480 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's CAS? < 1222901489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computer Algebra System < 1222901497 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I think that's exactly what I'll have to do < 1222901506 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why I've held off on implementing it... < 1222901508 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, mingle and select may not necessarily behave as nicely as ring and field operations < 1222901509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(%i1) solve([4 * x = x + 2], [x]); < 1222901509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 2 < 1222901509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(%o1) [x = -] < 1222901509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 3 < 1222901533 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: mingle is easy if you calculate at the level of the individual bits, the unaries are alright, select is a pain though < 1222901535 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using the existing wheel i see; i recommend writing the solver yourself < 1222901556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$$[x=\frac{2}{3}]$$ < 1222901557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as tex < 1222901558 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the opposite of reinventing the wheel? < 1222901560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maxima can do that < 1222901561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1222901573 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopod: using an existing wheel? < 1222901580 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'd like to see maxima handle iselect < 1222901582 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess < 1222901585 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopod: book burning. again. < 1222901595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no clue about that < 1222901596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and well < 1222901598 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's the C name for the operator, we couldn't use just "select" for obvious reasons) < 1222901605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, maxima is common lisp < 1222901610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet that doesn't work on DOS < 1222901618 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i like that < 1222901623 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why couldn't LISP work on DOS? < 1222901627 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have Emacs working on DOS < 1222901635 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if elisp works I don't see why common lisp wouldn't < 1222901640 0 :CO2Games!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1222901641 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i guess it would have to be more like "burning the books" < 1222901643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, it works with sbcl, clisp and gcl iirc < 1222901646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no other ones < 1222901681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1222901685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few more maybe < 1222901688 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it should be possible to port < 1222901694 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopod: also, instead of running over people you end up burning them. < 1222901700 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because an individual program hasn't been ported doesn't mean it isn't possible... < 1222901722 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i don't get that. < 1222901736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in fact: clisp, cmucl, scl, gcl, acl, openmcl, sbcl < 1222901744 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please use some of your 3% of non-punny messages to explain < 1222901755 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Wo man B�cher brennt, brennt man sofort auch Menschen." iirc < 1222901764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, according to the /usr/bin/maxima wrapper < 1222901767 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aahh < 1222901770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway I suspect this is totally insane < 1222901774 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" please use some of your 3% of non-punny messages to explain" would make a good sig < 1222901778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, too insane for intercal even < 1222901778 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, and? < 1222901779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really < 1222901788 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sig? :) < 1222901790 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you are missing the point < 1222901823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, no, I just think that went way too far. Next you are going to solve differential equations too < 1222901846 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you are still missing the point... < 1222901852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also maxima is not fast. maybe not as slow as mathematica but...? < 1222901866 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, most likely I'll write my own algebra engine < 1222901872 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that can handle INTERCAL stuff < 1222901872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it can export algorithms as fortran code though :) < 1222901885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never tried that < 1222901886 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect I'll end up brute-forcing the really weird stuff anyway, though < 1222901893 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :65536 possibilities isn't all that many to try < 1222901893 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if ghc could use Perl for its Evil Mangler, why can't INTERCAL use Maxima/C.L. < 1222901898 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although 4294967296 probably would be < 1222901901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, two-stop? < 1222901911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever the name is < 1222901914 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and twospot < 1222901918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1222901920 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the sigil is a : < 1222901930 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, if you're assigning two onespot variables at once < 1222901936 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sig? :) < 1222901943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, with unicode fourspot would work < 1222901957 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I've been thinking along those lines < 1222901965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, 8-spot? < 1222901966 0 :oklopod!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oklocod < 1222901983 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL would have threespot and fivespot too < 1222902000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err hm unicode with 3 dots I think exist < 1222902001 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact given the typical INTERCAL behaviour it would stop at sevenspot < 1222902005 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ghc uses Literat ePerl < 1222902006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"index marker" or something like that < 1222902007 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1222902008 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Literate Perl < 1222902012 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which it invented on the spot < 1222902017 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the octonions are the crazy old uncle nobody lets out of the attic: they are nonassociative." < 1222902033 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod: actually, "Dort, wo man B�cher verbrennt, verbrennt man auch am Ende Menschen." says http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Book_burning < 1222902038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, seven-spot would be... 96? bits? < 1222902038 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LiteRat ePerl sounds much nicer than literate perl < 1222902041 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Octonion under "Quotes". < 1222902063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err no < 1222902074 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah, i recognize the Ende there < 1222902077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :112 < 1222902079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :112 bits < 1222902080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crazy < 1222902088 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that always seemed a bit of an ugly sentence structure < 1222902093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like it < 1222902101 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I used the word deinstitutionalizations earlier < 1222902107 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I needed a 23-letter word for the FRC... < 1222902111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wtf does that mean < 1222902113 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's U+2059 "FIVE DOT PUNCTUATION" which has five dots arranged in a X shape. < 1222902116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what is FRC? < 1222902126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RFC I know... < 1222902128 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: situations in which people are released from a hospital for mentally ill people < 1222902139 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and FRC = Fantasy Rules Committee, a long-running email-based game < 1222902155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the rules are? < 1222902161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nomic? < 1222902168 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you stick U+20DC "COMBINING FOUR DOTS ABOVE" to U+2059, you get a nice nine-dot character. < 1222902189 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: technically it's a nomic but its rules rarely change, the nomicness is only used to improve them from time to time < 1222902190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, 144 bits? < 1222902210 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod: i think your opinions are a bit fishy at the moment < 1222902212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah well I lost my interest in nomics < 1222902213 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just looking at how many dots you can sensibly get from unicode without it looking ugly. < 1222902220 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, anyone can submit a "fantasy rule"; the only effect that the fantasy rules have on gameplay is that they all have to be consistent with each other < 1222902230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, got a sample of the 9 dots? < 1222902239 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you submit a rule and nobody else can come up with a rule consistent with all the existing ones for 14 days you win < 1222902249 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are various complications, but that's the heart of it < 1222902271 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe COMBINING THREE DOTS ABOVE + COMBINING TRIPLE UNDERDOT + FIVE DOT PUNCTUATION would look nice, and have 11 dots. < 1222902308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you could make easy rules, "do not eat the blue flashing grass" should be consistent with lots of existing rules < 1222902318 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you could < 1222902318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe that isn't allowed < 1222902325 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are various unwritten rules < 1222902336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that forbid what I suggest? < 1222902342 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, many of the rules make statements like "All rules have a word that sets a new record for word length" < 1222902351 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your example doesn't contain a 23-letter word < 1222902365 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it would be inconsistent with that rule, plus a rule that contained a 22-letter word < 1222902366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well if it was Swedish then it would be easy < 1222902375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we write words together to construct new ones < 1222902386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I one constructed a 56-letter word in Swedish < 1222902393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could probably have made it longer < 1222902399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that long is uncommon though < 1222902417 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get composite nouns of any length trivially < 1222902433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod, sure but in English you tend to use space between the parts < 1222902441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe a dash < 1222902443 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but i'm takling about swedish < 1222902445 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*talking < 1222902449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod, indeed < 1222902462 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :english doesn't have a grammar, as i've explained before < 1222902472 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you wanna have a few nouns together < 1222902474 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zem.fi/~fis/dots.html should have a 11-dot character if I'm right, but at least my browser doesn't want to render it right. The "three dots above" character overlaps a bit, and the "triple underdot" does not want to combine. < 1222902478 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then just bash them into a nice bundle < 1222902483 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one cares what's in the middle < 1222902521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod, I think it was of the lines of "car deformation zone engineer annual conference secretary ball-point pen tip" + a lot more and in one word < 1222902534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :⁙⃨⃛ < 1222902536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1222902536 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stopp svenskfanordf�rlengningsfascistpatriarkatet! < 1222902553 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1222902557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1222902567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, doesn't Norwegian allow it too? < 1222902572 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222902573 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course :) < 1222902583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea about Finish < 1222902592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err is that 1 or 2 n? < 1222902597 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in finish all words actually end the whole sentence < 1222902600 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it flows easier in swedish i think < 1222902608 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, you can't have composite nouns. < 1222902609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod, ?? really? < 1222902614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1222902619 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that was a joke on n/nn < 1222902623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1222902626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n/nn is? < 1222902630 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finnish is one of the composite nouniest languages < 1222902640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I don't think "svenskfanordförlengningsfascistpatriarkatet" flows very easily < 1222902660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fanord <-- breaks flow for some reason < 1222902660 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you can get quite long words by just inflicting one word < 1222902667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :between fan and ord < 1222902670 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 9-dot character at dots2.html seems to render more or less correctly; that one's five-dot-punctuation + combining-diaeresis + combining-diaeresis-below. < 1222902692 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :svensk is what breaks it < 1222902696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so what did you change it < 1222902706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION slaps oklocod with a stunned seagull
< 1222902719 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1222902736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if you get that literary reference: congrats!) < 1222902749 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i donp't. < 1222902751 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*don't < 1222902751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it is very obscure trivia for that book) < 1222902764 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, dots2.html uses just two dots above and below, since the amazing triple underdot does not combine around here. So it's less dots but better-looking. And actually dots.html had 12 dots, counted 5+4+3 wrong. < 1222902768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod, Discworld series, book: Pyramids < 1222902805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very very obscure reference < 1222902818 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i think he stole it from Monty Python < 1222902825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't think most Discworld fans would realize it is a reference) < 1222902825 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like "epäjärjestelmällistämättömyydelläänsäkäänköhän" is the traditional "long inflected single Finnish word", although I guess it's from dubious legality. < 1222902826 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait a minute i've read that book < 1222902837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh < 1222902838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1222902849 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :epäjärjestelmällistyttämättömyydellänsäkäänköhän < 1222902850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what does it mean? < 1222902852 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was some trout slapping < 1222902862 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zing! Vext cwm fly jabs Jurd qoph. < 1222902865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah no trout slapping in the discworld book < 1222902868 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Kurd < 1222902879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, that is what makes it so extremely obscure < 1222902884 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still, the inspiration is clear < 1222902902 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, there was that... epäkumarreksituteskenteleentuvaisehkollaismaisekkuudellisentelemättömyydellänsäkäänköpähän or something, but i doubt that means anything :P < 1222902914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, lets see... ginz, text mwc ylf sabj drunj hope? < 1222902923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, even if that is drunk... < 1222902943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah way should be sbaj < 1222902945 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :epäjärjestelmällistyttämäättömyydellänsäkäänköhän isn't really even hard to parse, although i probably wouldn't use it actively < 1222902946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still no sense < 1222902951 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mättö < 1222902961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod, now what do it mean? < 1222902965 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod: if you say so < 1222902975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does* < 1222903006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, care to explain? knurd makes me think it is some disc world reference... but? < 1222903023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gniz btw < 1222903049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gniz texv mwc ylf sbaj drunk hpoq < 1222903050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1222903054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even less sense < 1222903059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, explain yourself < 1222903066 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's a pangram < 1222903067 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :järjestelmällistyttää would probably be like "to make systematic", although a weird connotation for that, so i guess "by making unsystematic (question suffix + suffix for third person)" < 1222903072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ?? < 1222903074 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's technically gramatically correct < 1222903075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is that < 1222903083 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Zing! Vext cwm fly jabs Kurd qoph < 1222903089 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uses each of the 26 letters exactly once < 1222903093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod, ugh < 1222903093 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I've remembered it correctly < 1222903096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod, and the rest < 1222903099 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't really translate it unless in a sentence < 1222903102 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the rest? < 1222903107 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the even longer one? < 1222903115 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Japanese has a poem like that which makes a lot more sense, traditionally it was used to order the alphabet < 1222903121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod, "epäjärjestelmällistämättömyydelläänsäkäänköhän" means "to make systematic"? < 1222903122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1222903155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :systematisera in Swedish them < 1222903156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then* < 1222903160 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i translated it to "by making unsystematic", but there are a few constructs that would change the surrounding sentence in english, and not the word < 1222903169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod, ah < 1222903171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still... < 1222903174 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :genom at göra unsystematik < 1222903176 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1222903181 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*att < 1222903187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod, osystematisk too < 1222903192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :un is English < 1222903192 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1222903198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1222903199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even so < 1222903203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is like crazy < 1222903215 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod: Are you sure it's that simple? I mean, there's already "järjestelmällistyttämättömyys" which is something like "not making something systematic" -- since it's not "järjestelmällistyttäminen" -- but also the "epä-" negation prefix in front. < 1222903220 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the longer one i just saw that in an old book, i can't parse that, just memorized it. < 1222903234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and I bet you wish you could use some Nordic language in that nomic ;P < 1222903235 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod: And there are more suffixes than just those two. < 1222903239 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: different < 1222903250 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other is "not making systematic", other is "making unsystematic" < 1222903255 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes, i think it's that simple < 1222903277 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are mor suffixes, but they cannot be translated, i say < 1222903283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod, really nice language that even the natives can't parse < 1222903296 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you disagree, i will /nick oklogod, and it will be futile < 1222903302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I ever consider trying to learn Finish, please remind me not to! < 1222903320 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finnish, unless you want another bad joke < 1222903329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod, is it two n? < 1222903334 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1222903349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : no idea about Finish < 1222903349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : err is that 1 or 2 n? < 1222903349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : in finish all words actually end the whole sentence < 1222903351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1222903353 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: < 1222903355 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1222903356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use that yourself then :P < 1222903358 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod: "epäjärjestelmällistyttäminen" would be something like "the act of making something unsystematic"; so shouldn't "epäjärjestelmällistyttämättömyys" mean the avoidance of it? < 1222903358 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i now see what you meant < 1222903370 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the act of not making something unsystematic, of course < 1222903381 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Of course." < 1222903394 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: finish is the language where all sentences finish after one word < 1222903400 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know < 1222903401 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finish < 1222903403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah... < 1222903404 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like, to end < 1222903418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod, except I can't remember if it is Finnish of Finish, the spelling that is < 1222903420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for either of them < 1222903423 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you speak ennd? < 1222903429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it makes that very confuing < 1222903454 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all the suomi to me < 1222903467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, Finnish would make a good PRNG (or possibly even true RNG) if you just remove the dots over about half the ä in that ;P < 1222903499 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I must sleeps now. < 1222903503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, same < 1222903506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night all < 1222903507 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should sleeping too < 1222903513 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta wake up in 6 hours < 1222903520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=><= < 1222903527 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i've already been tired for a days < 1222903527 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION also plans to go home very shortly
< 1222903539 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is it 24/7 < 1222903543 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the place you're at < 1222903548 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Room < 1222903563 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"mibbit.com: please use some of your 3% of non-punny messages to explain" < 1222903667 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, didn't answer my question, but in fact answered a question i asked him many hours ago. < 1222903784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod, ? < 1222903865 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: long story < 1222903867 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sleep! -> < 1222903874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1222903875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sane < 1222903876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same* < 1222904147 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1222904568 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1222904740 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :