< 1223080432 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1223080488 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I'll take that as a 'No'" < 1223080751 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey anmaster < 1223080773 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what grammar? < 1223081145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, about "fedora or bowler hat" < 1223081148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever it was < 1223081164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, wasn't it you? < 1223081331 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1223081520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"ERC Version 5.3 (IRC client for Emacs)" < 1223081862 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1223085193 0 :Enki-][!n=weechat@c-71-234-190-248.hsd1.ct.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1223085230 0 :Enki-][!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1223087528 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1223090814 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1223090814 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1223090823 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1223090823 0 :lifthrasiir!n=lifthras@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1223092288 0 :CO2Games!n=CO2Games@75-163-236-8.clsp.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1223092715 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster: < 1223092719 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, we were talking about hats < 1223092722 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and disjunction < 1223092731 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what about it < 1223093096 0 :CO2Games!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm I should make a brainfuck compiler < 1223093318 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip68-98-89-121.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1223093847 0 :Enki-][!n=weechat@c-71-234-190-248.hsd1.ct.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1223094211 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone should make a brainfuck compiler. < 1223094264 0 :Enki-][!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hey < 1223094278 0 :Enki-][!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if anyone has a bot or can grab one < 1223094289 0 :Enki-][!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#sumisu is full of bots chatting to one another < 1223094315 0 :Enki-][!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i figure we should get some non-markov-chain bots (elizas or alices maybe) to try to put some sense into the mix < 1223094578 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :markov chain? < 1223094748 0 :Enki-][!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1223094753 0 :Enki-][!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of them < 1223094805 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Having the Markov property means that, given the present state, future states are independent of the past states. In other words, the description of the present state fully captures all the information that could influence the future evolution of the process. Future states will be reached through a probabilistic process instead of a deterministic one." < 1223094809 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you Wikipedia < 1223095771 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a bot, but being lazy I used a Winsock component that came with VB6 instead of using Sockets properly, and now I don't have VB6 :( < 1223095805 0 :Enki-][!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oof < 1223095816 0 :Enki-][!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :visual basic... talk about an esolang! < 1223095862 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bot itself was C#, thankfully, which is a slight step up < 1223095964 0 :Enki-][!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1223095970 0 :CO2Games!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"And I invented doors, no joke!" < 1223099186 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1223099342 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | Would you like to believe I was ? < 1223100672 0 :GregorR-L!n=gregor@65.183.185.132 JOIN :#esoteric < 1223100744 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For Plof syntax naysayers: Plof's 'if' function is now called like so: if (condition) (code) else (code) (presumably with some newlines in there). The only way you could have complaints about this syntax is if you're hyper-insistent on using curly-braces. If you are, go away :P < 1223101150 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was it like before? < 1223101255 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if((condition), (code), else, (code)); < 1223101265 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, it's still like that, but I've swizzled the function-call syntax. < 1223102776 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, still talkign about plof? < 1223102832 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now that I'm /officially/ working on PL it just makes me want to work on Plof that much more :P < 1223102850 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's PL? < 1223102855 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Programming Languages < 1223103083 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PL/1 ? < 1223103144 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. PL/I is an extremely popular, modern programming language :P < 1223103235 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep.. I use it every day :) < 1223103491 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice http://pl1gcc.sourceforge.net/ < 1223103643 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There is still no code generation taking place, so don't run out and uninstall your production PL/I compiler just yet :-)" < 1223103800 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia claims that PL/I is still actively used today. < 1223103956 0 :Enki-][!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1223104271 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're officially working on programming languages? < 1223104274 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How bizarrely appropriate. < 1223104286 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/bizarrely// < 1223104288 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: that's because it is < 1223104358 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we still use it to write mainframe software < 1223104625 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. < 1223104631 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OJ Simpson found guilty. < 1223104680 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster! < 1223104823 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yuh, I'm a grad student now. < 1223104831 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yes. < 1223104840 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't realise that was exactly what you were working on. < 1223104844 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1223104848 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I'm in the PL group :) < 1223104854 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though that's because I didn't think about it. < 1223104866 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1223104890 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the most natural thing for you to be working on... < 1223104941 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could see myself in networking, but I'm hoping I can leverage that in PL instead. < 1223104990 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Leverage... < 1223104998 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Take off the tie; it's controlling you. < 1223105039 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wears no tie :P
< 1223105060 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yesterday I was proctoring an exam wearing a Do Not Put the Baby T-shirt and a fez :P < 1223105072 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah! < 1223105079 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dammit; makes me wish I was at Purdue. < 1223105082 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1223105119 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is also forming Purdue Extreme Croquet.
< 1223105129 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1223105169 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are the people on the front page of mst.edu pointing in random directions? < 1223105260 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohyeah: Everybody go buy a Pandora (www.openpandora.org), it would suck if they didn't make their preorder max. < 1223105268 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And with that, I go to sleep. < 1223105271 0 :GregorR-L!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1223105323 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't say; that picture is randomised. < 1223105699 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1223106107 0 :moozilla!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1223106320 0 :moozilla!n=moozilla@207-118-24-249.dyn.centurytel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1223106778 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@j-10.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1223106927 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a pandora now :( < 1223106941 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's £199 compared to £129 for the GP2X Wiz < 1223107199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1223107200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1223107945 0 :Mony!n=AssHole@AToulouse-258-1-102-229.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1223109087 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"So, how much do you love noodles?" < 1223110932 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1223116852 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1223117200 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@j-41.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1223120943 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | Define tonight < 1223124024 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1223124763 0 :slereah!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-60-65.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1223124764 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1223126420 0 :Hiato!n=Hiato@dsl-245-18-228.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1223126781 0 :slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1223126788 0 :slereah!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-60-65.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1223127583 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1223127686 0 :kt3k!n=stibium_@FL1-122-130-193-58.kyt.mesh.ad.jp JOIN :#esoteric < 1223128256 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: the count on your hats page has not been updated :D < 1223128466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know how to find out the size of the stack from inside gdb? < 1223128547 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1223129708 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1223132132 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@m-213.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1223132731 0 :kt3k!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1223132817 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1223132817 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1223132821 0 :ihope!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1223132824 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1223132824 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1223132826 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1223132828 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1223132828 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1223132831 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1223132831 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1223132831 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1223132831 0 :cmeme!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1223132833 0 :moozilla!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1223132833 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1223132833 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1223132835 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1223132836 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1223132838 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1223132838 0 :danopia!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1223132838 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1223132838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1223132842 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1223132952 0 :kt3k0!n=stibium_@FL1-122-130-193-58.kyt.mesh.ad.jp JOIN :#esoteric < 1223132952 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1223132952 0 :Mony!n=AssHole@AToulouse-258-1-102-229.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1223132952 0 :moozilla!n=moozilla@207-118-24-249.dyn.centurytel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1223132952 0 :lifthrasiir!n=lifthras@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1223132952 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1223132952 0 :ihope!n=Peggy@c-71-205-100-59.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1223132952 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1223132952 0 :ehird!n=ehird@eso-std.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1223132952 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-20-51.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1223132952 0 :psygnisfive!i=82f5c439@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-f3a7ce0c53795892 JOIN :#esoteric < 1223132952 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-112-49-85.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1223132952 0 :danopia!n=danopia@fullcirclemagazine/developer/danopia JOIN :#esoteric < 1223132952 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@cpc3-stkn2-0-0-cust106.midd.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1223132952 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r02jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1223132952 0 :optbot!n=optbot@eso-std.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1223132952 0 :ais523!n=ais523@eso-std.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1223132952 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@a91-153-123-88.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1223132952 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@65.183.185.132 JOIN :#esoteric < 1223132952 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-128-184.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1223132952 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1223132952 0 :cmeme!n=cmeme@boa.b9.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1223132952 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1223133088 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-60-65.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1223133088 0 :slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1223133355 0 :M0ny!n=AssHole@AToulouse-258-1-56-244.w90-55.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1223133513 0 :slereah!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-60-65.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1223133528 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1223133806 0 :kt3k0!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1223134456 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1223136642 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-11-118.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1223136675 0 :ENKI-][!n=weechat@c-71-234-190-248.hsd1.ct.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1223136961 0 :slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1223136969 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-028-216.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1223137192 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1223137705 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Large road-based collective transport" < 1223139085 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: Sure, but it's also substantially superior to the Wiz :P < 1223139134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so GregorR < 1223139135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x+y=2 < 1223139139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is x/y < 1223139190 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x/(2-x) < 1223139213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gergorBR: NAO < 1223139214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I submit the following proposal, titled "Have listing" (AI=1): < 1223139214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{{{ < 1223139214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Major philosophical change: shorten "30 days" to self-installation to prevent < 1223139215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the stayed Order has been judged". < 1223139215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A message is public, the only mechanism by which rules can be required, so may < 1223139215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well, but after taking all other rules. < 1223139217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :}}} < 1223139344 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When did I become "gregorBR" ... < 1223139354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gergorBR: No, gergorBR. < 1223139362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid. < 1223139401 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GROGOR < 1223139423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO. < 1223139424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gergor. < 1223139437 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GERGOR TEH CONKERRAAR < 1223139445 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grugur < 1223139463 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gruuuuuu < 1223139473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Who is GERGOR? < 1223139475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only know a gergor. < 1223139485 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gergovie? < 1223139613 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1223139777 0 :oklocod!n=nnscript@a91-153-123-88.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1223139918 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an < 1223139923 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :en < 1223139927 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mony < 1223140034 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hulo thar < 1223140051 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOW < 1223140061 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the greatest greeting i've *ever* gotten < 1223140455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod: aww. < 1223140459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello oklocod < 1223140465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, i addressed you by name < 1223141250 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oi < 1223141253 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster < 1223141260 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw oklocod: hey. < 1223141261 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1223141263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1223141265 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really anmaster < 1223141270 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what were you asking me yesterday < 1223141284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, about who it was that designed that language thing < 1223141289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have the scrollback any more < 1223141294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I have rebooted < 1223141296 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :designed WHAT language thing? < 1223141326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, the convo of what "or" meant in English < 1223141343 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh.. i dont get what you mean by who designed it < 1223141348 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a conversation. lol < 1223141360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, someone suggested making a language anywhere < 1223141364 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1223141366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my question was: did that get anywwhere < 1223141368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anywhere* < 1223141378 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suggested we make a language with disjunction scope indicators < 1223141387 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it didnt get anywhere since we only mentioned it last night :P < 1223141399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, but what plans do you have for it? < 1223141422 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably none but i'd like to experiment with it < 1223141456 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like i was saying to oklociod, i think it'd work nicely along side the quantification and predication ideas i had a few months ago < 1223141481 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb gotta go shower and stuff < 1223141738 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have a good stuff < 1223141855 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :id rather have your stuff if you know what i mean < 1223141859 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wink wink! < 1223141861 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nudge nudge! < 1223141865 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say no more < 1223141868 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sayyyy no MORE! < 1223141883 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok bye shower <3you oklocock < 1223141963 0 :jix!n=jix@lbck-4dbaf37f.pool.einsundeins.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1223142343 0 :Hiato!n=Hiato@dsl-245-18-228.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1223142506 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1223142543 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | bbl < 1223143092 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back yo < 1223143104 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or as the kids these days say < 1223143107 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back desu yo < 1223146059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much overhead does a malloced block have on average on a 32-bit platform < 1223146064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean the bookkeeping data < 1223146078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure... hmm < 1223146084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be a channel for hardware questions like that < 1223146086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't there < 1223146087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1223146089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its kind of hardware < 1223146092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and kind of software < 1223146096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: dependant on the malloc impl < 1223146097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely < 1223146101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes < 1223146105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what is common < 1223146110 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anmaster, why do you ask? < 1223146112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't think there's any standard. < 1223146126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: The least helpful reply to a question is 'why?'. < 1223146132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, surely there is some average? Like "probably 8-16 bytes" or whatever < 1223146142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In #esoteric we can at least assume the people have a reason for doing something. < 1223146150 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it wasnt an answer to that question :P < 1223146150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't really think so... < 1223146153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and reason why is because I consider implementing a memory pool system < 1223146164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: why did you ask why then < 1223146183 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was asking why he was asking about the thing earlier < 1223146190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1223146190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because valgrinds massif says I got almost half a MB of overhead, and the total memory usage is around 7 MB < 1223146193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not very clear :P < 1223146224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: < 1223146225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void mem[big_number]; size_t top = 0; void *malloc(size_t foo) { top += foo; return mem + top; } void free(void *foo) { } < 1223146236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no < 1223146245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void mem[big_number]; size_t top = 0; void *malloc(size_t foo) { void *ptr = mem + top; top += foo; return ptr; } void free(void *foo) { } < 1223146245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1223146249 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster! :| < 1223146263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway I suspect I could reduce overhead here and yes I need low memory usage since I expect to operate on even larger data sets, so I could end up with overhead like 50 MB just for the bookkeeping data < 1223146266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that wouldn't be fun at all < 1223146271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what's the project out of curiosity < 1223146309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, kind of closed currently, it will be open source in due time, but not for some time due to various circumstances out of my control < 1223146318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically NDA < 1223146318 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1223146321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry :/ < 1223146331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm surprised you'd ever agree to an NDA. :-P < 1223146362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, however it is only temporary until certain other things are completed < 1223146376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway since most of the allocations are fixed using a mempool would have less overhead I think < 1223146428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well I'm finding it hard to believe AnMaster ever agreeing to an NDA or similar so now I'm intrigued :-P. I'll be interested to see what it is when it's opened. < 1223146441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, may be a few months < 1223146587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I will have an overhead of sizeof(void*) for each object in the array, since I need to find free objects easily. The only way I can think of is having a single linked list embedded in the array. Freed objects are added to a list, The pool header contains a pointer to the first item in this linked list. < 1223146600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for allocated objects, and for the last in the free list, this pointer is NULL < 1223146612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crazy. < 1223146627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only issue is I would need to initially add all objects to that free list < 1223146634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would be O(n) < 1223146644 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster! :| < 1223146659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I do something like switching allocation strategy when the last block is used < 1223146661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to free list < 1223146662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1223146676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keep a pointer to last allocated block < 1223146690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :allocate from that unless we reached the end of the array < 1223146701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we reached the end, then switch to allocate from the free list < 1223146708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if freelist is empty, allocate a new pool < 1223146717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does this sound like a good idea? < 1223146738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is the first time I try to do something like this so advice is welcome :) < 1223146748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it sounds good but i have no idea about this stuff < 1223146751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1223146764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't think of a channel that might have people who know this kind of stuff, though < 1223146778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not C, it's not Linux... i mean, what is it, really < 1223146793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also I had very bad memory fragmentation with malloc/free, due to allocating differently sized objects and freeing/mallocing is more or less random order < 1223146811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I will instead have mempools for the two sizes of objects I need < 1223146813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well < 1223146823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course the smaller overhead < 1223146825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't you peek at some other memory pool system perhaps < 1223146828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a lot of them < 1223146836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm like boehm-gc and such? < 1223146838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yours sounds a bit overcomplicated to me but as i said i don't really know this stuff < 1223146848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, i know one quite often used app uses it < 1223146851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i do not recall its name < 1223146871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however many try to be general to handle not exactly of size x but of range x-y < 1223146877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1223146902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i think yours sounds kind of more complicated than theirs but again i don't really know this stuff :-) < 1223146905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : its not C, it's not Linux... i mean, what is it, really <-- memory allocation! < 1223146920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: somehow i doubt #memory-allocation would get many people :-P < 1223146939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the channel didn't exist < 1223146959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: very observant < 1223146969 0 :metazilla!n=moozilla@72-160-125-115.dyn.centurytel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1223147043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, just had to check in case < 1223147054 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never metazilla i didn't like < 1223147157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AUGH! < 1223147166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that pun was bad < 1223147186 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, old < 1223147194 0 :kt3k!n=stibium_@FL1-122-130-193-58.kyt.mesh.ad.jp JOIN :#esoteric < 1223147214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1223147278 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders about the An in AnMaster's nick
< 1223147283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, initials < 1223147294 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1223147491 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't read of all the context, but to me it would sound somewhat cleaner to always just give out the first item in the free-list; or if the list is empty, the next free entry in the last block; or if the last block is full, allocate a new one. That way your free-list will be marginally shorter than in the "fill the last block first" case. < 1223147522 0 :moozilla!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1223147535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the issue is that I need to prepare freelist. Setting up the pointers initially is O(n) after all < 1223147547 0 :moozilla!n=moozilla@pppoe-64-91-110-200-rb.vcr.centurytel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1223147574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, free list is basically a linked list *embedded* in the array that these are allocated from < 1223147583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I want to avoid overhead of malloc < 1223147602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and memory fragmentation < 1223147613 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know you can keep it there, but I see no reason why it needs to be prepared in advance if it starts out empty and you keep a separate "we have allocated this many objects from the last block" count. < 1223147647 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you free() the object you just need to stick the value of the current free-list pointer to wherever the free()d pointer points to, and update your current "start of free list" pointer to point there. < 1223147656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the array used for memory pool is malloced (of course), That means memory is undefined < 1223147676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would need to set the pointers of the "next free" to null < 1223147680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the whole aray < 1223147682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :array* < 1223147693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1223147702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather < 1223147706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to point to the next item < 1223147714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NULL wouldn't work < 1223147745 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why. When you start, you set your top-level "next free" pointer to NULL, which means it will allocate from the end of the already-allocated blocks. When you free() a block, just stick the current "next free" value to the place you freed, and update "next free" to point there. < 1223147762 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That way you'll end up with a singly-linked list of pointers, terminated by a NULL entry. < 1223147763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1223147772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but that is more or less what I said :) < 1223147790 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? There's no setting-up pointers in advance, only when free()ing the element. < 1223147802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed. < 1223147813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I said I would do basically what you said first < 1223147820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to avoid the issue < 1223147827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so how is mine more complex < 1223147873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only difference is that I would allocate from end of the used blocks until I hit the end of the memory area, while you use free list as soon as possible < 1223147875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/trends <- Why is the Mormon "church"'s domain the #1 trend...??? < 1223147894 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, that _is_ the only difference I was mentioning there. < 1223147903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/trends/hottrends?sa=X And with a www. in front, #20. < 1223147910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did they ask their members to googlebomb them or something? < 1223147924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, So the only difference in the code is what entry in the struct I test for NULL ;P < 1223148000 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I just think it's -- as I said, marginally -- cleaner to allocate from the pointers-all-around-the-place free list so that it goes away, instead of filling the last memory block completely first. < 1223148010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes you are probably right < 1223148042 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the idea itself sounds good, though terribly non-esoteric. < 1223148057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, however for point of memory fragmentation it doesn't matter, since all objects in the array are the same sizer < 1223148059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :size* < 1223148067 0 :metazilla!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1223148076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway yes but I couldn't think of another channel to ask < 1223148106 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think mooz, who used to hang around here writing befunge stuff, wrote a very nice fixed-size memory pool in C. Don't remember the details, but at least there were some similiarities. < 1223148118 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I have a copy of it any more, though. < 1223148122 0 :timmytiptoe!n=tro@ip5650c543.direct-adsl.nl JOIN :#esoteric < 1223148143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, :/ < 1223148183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: being here since the start, what year would you say #esoteric was most active in? < 1223148276 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compared to the long-term average, it has certainly felt pretty active these last few months. < 1223148287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, easy to find using logs < 1223148298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no < 1223148301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean actual activity < 1223148304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 'ooh, this place is dead' < 1223148307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and '* netspli' < 1223148308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1223148320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, just check actual messages in the log < 1223148330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 'ooh, this place is dead' is an Actual Message. < 1223148333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't fix the "what a dead place" < 1223148335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actual activity is subjective < 1223148336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1223148340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm true < 1223148450 0 :timmytiptoe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1223148560 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, this place is dead < 1223148566 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a doornail < 1223148573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1223148575 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a rusted one < 1223148581 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the byte sizes of the logs _do_ indicate _something_ about actual activity, and here's a quick-and-dirty GNUplot plot, even though the default options suck a bit: http://zem.fi/~fis/eso.png < 1223148583 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :underwater < 1223148588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, full of life, bacterias living on rust < 1223148595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they exist iirc < 1223148598 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's poisonous water < 1223148598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot the name for them < 1223148609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Wow, so we are living in the golden age of #esoteric? < 1223148612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, there are bacterias in nuclear reactors... so? < 1223148649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there seems to be a pattern, more active during the summers? < 1223148650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1223148682 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: As far as amount of content goes, maybe. I can't really meaningfully quantify the quality. < 1223148685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to say from that graph < 1223148695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh our quality is certainly down. < 1223148697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: duh, summer holidays < 1223148701 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION feels nervous about a scale using e notation without being logarithmic
< 1223148703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes of course < 1223148706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1223148710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it really that way < 1223148719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is, holidays is the likely reason yes < 1223148724 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The data is so noisy I can't really tell. < 1223148729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah < 1223148743 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, amount of bytes in my monthly logfile might not be the best measure anyway. < 1223148750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1223148751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Hm. < 1223148755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you could filter join/parts < 1223148763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be a *bit* more correct < 1223148765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: If you switch to wc -l, and then make it so that it draws lines between the points < 1223148768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd be reasonable < 1223148770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hopefully not hard? < 1223148786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes and sed away anything but messages and /me < 1223148789 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not hard, nope. Although I think I'll also grep it so that only those so-called actual messages are in. < 1223148791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are really messages < 1223148796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yea. < 1223148810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, don't forget CTCP ACTIONs < 1223148819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea how they are logged < 1223148831 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making the dates on the X axis actually readable might help too *duck* < 1223148836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is raw log then I suggest grepping for PRIVMSG would work < 1223148845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes :) < 1223148849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it isn't raw < 1223148853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know because I have seen his 2002 logs < 1223148859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1223148862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what format then? < 1223148865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are so many < 1223148869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Pretty typical-looking. < 1223148873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me get you a line < 1223148891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: < 1223148892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[18:05:22] -!- lament [~lament@h24-78-145-92.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #esoteric < 1223148892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[18:10:45] < lament> my tarantula molted! < 1223148893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[18:10:49] < shapr> yay! < 1223148893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[18:14:02] -!- lament [~lament@h24-78-145-92.vc.shawcable.net] has quit ["PROSECUTORS WILL BE TRANSGRESSICUTED."] < 1223148893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--- Log closed Fri Jan 03 18:47:53 2003 < 1223148898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah hm < 1223148902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not unix timestamps < 1223148911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect irssi behind that log < 1223148913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Humans sometimes read things :P < 1223148916 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: great excerpt :D < 1223148921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes :-) < 1223148935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, mooz is in that log. < 1223148942 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, shapr was here? that must be #haskell i think < 1223148950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[04:52:55] * andreou is feeling REALLY GOOD < 1223148952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no < 1223148954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's #esoteric < 1223148955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it says "-!- lament [~lament@h24-78-145-92.vc.shawcable.net] has joined #esoteric" < 1223148955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2003 < 1223148957 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I think I've got a suitable expression; and the timestamps have changed since those earliest logs. < 1223148957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1223148963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously #esoteric < 1223148963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah, and then shapr talks. < 1223148969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1223148970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes < 1223148973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its #esoteric < 1223148974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :circa 2003 < 1223148977 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1223148980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[04:52:55] * andreou is feeling REALLY GOOD < 1223148982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is how the /mes look < 1223148988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, since it says "foo joined #esoteric" that was pretty obvious < 1223149000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[2002-12-15 01:17:38] < navigator> 27M < 1223149003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is from the second log part < 1223149006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah hm < 1223149007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's even older < 1223149008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1223149013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many formats? < 1223149017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is an iso date < 1223149020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: shrug < 1223149024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1223149027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1223149036 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Replotting. < 1223149043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, with readable dates? < 1223149214 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The file is now updated, although the date labels are very messed up; gnuplot is really user-unfriendly when it comes to time data and I don't remember the magic settings. < 1223149231 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least the labels are now readable, but the tickmarks don't hit the months correctly. < 1223149250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ugh :/ < 1223149259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but interesting < 1223149260 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the points are months, and you can just count the from the nearest tickmark, which seems to be using the day/month/year format maybe. I think. < 1223149271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Does it draw lines between the plots? < 1223149271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so yay < 1223149278 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there are lines. < 1223149281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hooray < 1223149281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lines < 1223149283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my luv < 1223149292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1223149296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That last huge peak. < 1223149298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What happened?? < 1223149313 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the last point is this October, it's not really comparable. < 1223149321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1223149331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, essentially, "#esoteric is dying" has never been true. < 1223149335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's always been gaining steadily. < 1223149348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes over 5000 lines in 4 days in October? < 1223149351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1223149371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also no, look at the low before that < 1223149382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was way way lower than so far this month < 1223149385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1223149386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1223149387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is < 1223149392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it goes up and down BUT < 1223149394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1223149395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the big picture < 1223149398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it always goes up < 1223149403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the peaks are always larger < 1223149405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so #esoteric has never been dying... it's been expanding < 1223149411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1223149415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we just need to figure out how to sustain the peaks :-P < 1223149448 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more pasted code, clearly < 1223149457 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ducks again
< 1223149518 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>___O< Koin Koin < 1223149555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On 32-bit: 12 bytes overhead per memory pool. 4 bytes overhead per memory block. Double both on 64-bit. Still I think I beat malloc/free in the long run < 1223149558 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :silly french < 1223149570 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1223149579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it is French? < 1223149583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought it was just random < 1223149591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe the name of some of that anime crap or whatever < 1223149603 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well Mony _is_ french < 1223149606 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No per-object overhead usually means directly that you will beat a generic malloc. < 1223149620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well that is impossible for free list < 1223149628 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, koin would be approximately qua... with a nasal vowel < 1223149635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and object == memory block in this case < 1223149649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but the main reason is that I got really bad memory fragmentation < 1223149651 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm googling to be sure < 1223149664 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh; I though memory block == one page or so. < 1223149671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1223149678 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you need four bytes there for? < 1223149679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway I figured out a way to make that less. < 1223149700 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.eleceng.adelaide.edu.au/personal/dabbott/animal.html claims "coin, coin" < 1223149712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, for the pointer for next free object Or do you want me to allocate the memory for the linked list of them from *another* memory pool? < 1223149713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1223149721 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean, the free-list only contains unallocated objects, which means that the pointers can be "inside" the objects there. < 1223149724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I could use offset in array < 1223149730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then have 16 bit integer < 1223149735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means 2 bytes overhead < 1223149768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well since the objects are *less* than 8 bytes that wouldn't work on amd64 at least < 1223149775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but an union could work < 1223149776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1223149789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1223149790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1223149804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be truely awesome idea < 1223149821 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought the "pointers use the space normally allocated for objects" was pretty much the "standard" way of doing that, at least when object size >= pointer size. < 1223149825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means 4 bytes overhead on x86_64 and 0 bytes on x86 < 1223149832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1223149835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION changes
< 1223149889 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1223149913 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't mind the "more instructions involved in free/malloc", I guess you could easily manage to fit into 32 bits some sort of "block index + offset" value instead of a raw pointer. < 1223149918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if I have at most 2^32 objects in each memory pool then I could use a 32-bit index instead of a pointer < 1223149937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you may have hit enter first, but I thought of it first ;P < 1223149945 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, sure. :p < 1223149984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway I use "memory pool" here in the meaning "block header (3 * sizeof(void*)) + the relevant array" < 1223150020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway each such block would have it's own free list I think... Or maybe I should use a global freelist < 1223150027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes that would be better < 1223150275 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fool, er, the pool < 1223150304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, that pun totally failed < 1223150331 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you saying it was puny? < 1223150338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, no it wasn't < 1223150358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err assuming puny means "has the quality of a pun" < 1223150361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1223150365 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you fail :D < 1223150368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it could mean something else < 1223150379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, does it mean something else? < 1223150383 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1223150408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what? < 1223150452 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.no/search?hl=no&q=define%3Apuny&meta= < 1223150480 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-11-118.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1223150491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah, yes then it was < 1223150554 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is shocked
< 1223150571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though the pun with "puny" was quite good < 1223150988 0 :ENKI-][!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1223151248 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip68-98-89-121.ph.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1223151276 0 :hakware!n=weechat@c-71-234-190-248.hsd1.ct.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1223151304 0 :hakware!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ENKI-][ < 1223151325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :growing with realloc() may fail < 1223151329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what about shrinking? < 1223151338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :logically it should succeed < 1223151347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't see any reason why it wouldn't < 1223151391 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it _could_ be just a NOP couldn't it < 1223151408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think so < 1223151500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun fact: realloc(ptr, 0); is same as free(ptr); < 1223151551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and realloc(NULL, n); is same as malloc(n); < 1223151557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for all values (including 0) of n < 1223151563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to man page < 1223151573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically we could do away with malloc and free < 1223151577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just use realloc < 1223151653 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, C99 guarantees only realloc(NULL, n) doing the same thing as malloc(n), not the "size 0 does free" thing. < 1223151673 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ollon. < 1223151686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm really? < 1223151688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION checks
< 1223151696 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in fact my "realloc" man page says "If size was equal to 0, either NULL or a pointer suitable to be passed to free() is returned." < 1223151702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If size is 0 and ptr is not a null pointer, the object pointed to is freed." < 1223151703 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod: yllillä ollon ällä < 1223151707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, man 3p < 1223151714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that is from POSIX 2001.whatever < 1223151716 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod! < 1223151722 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have posix man pages installed on this system. < 1223151722 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION now wonders if he actually said anything
< 1223151752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so we could still do away with malloc < 1223151761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and rename realloc to alloc basically < 1223151765 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: do you know what ollon means? < 1223151773 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or oerjan, i'm sure one of you should < 1223151792 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a clue < 1223151794 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaanyway, oerjan, you didn't say anything meaninful, but it was definitely finnish < 1223151795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod, yes < 1223151806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod, it is the fruit of a type of tree < 1223151809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oak < 1223151810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is it < 1223151817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the oak fruit is called ollon < 1223151821 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not the only meaning, but yeah < 1223151825 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i did ensure vowel harmony < 1223151832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. Ollon - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia < 1223151832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ollon is a municipality in the district of Aigle in the canton of Vaud in Switzerland, sited in the foothills < 1223151834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is another one < 1223151838 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ällä is the letter l < 1223151848 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod! < 1223151853 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need to make a language! < 1223151858 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think anmaster desires it! < 1223151866 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well it should also mean a glans < 1223151868 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also according to wiktionary: "2. den översta delen på penis eller/och klitoris; glans penis/clitoris" < 1223151872 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1223151879 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't even remember the other meaning < 1223151883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod, "a glitter"? < 1223151892 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what? < 1223151893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod, actually more like shine < 1223151896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or glean? < 1223151897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1223151904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure of how to translate "glans" < 1223151904 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what? < 1223151906 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1223151907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to English < 1223151910 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the tip of the cocker < 1223151920 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WordNet quote: 1. glans -- (a small rounded structure; especially that at the end of the penis or clitoris) < 1223151926 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it might be any small rounded structure. < 1223151927 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: languages!!! < 1223151929 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the head of your cock < 1223151937 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats the glans < 1223151950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod, no, it is the shine from, for example, a well polished metal surface. < 1223151957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what the adjective glans means < 1223151965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually that is the noun form < 1223151972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glänser would be the adjective < 1223151982 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster: oh, not the english word glans < 1223151982 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1223151983 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1223151993 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that's what he was blabbering about < 1223151997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, ah ok, but he was using Swedish before < 1223152002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I assumed he continued < 1223152002 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i only know obscene swedish < 1223152004 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i propose a new convention: whenever referencing words from specific languages < 1223152005 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use the format < 1223152017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :en:what? < 1223152019 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "word" < 1223152023 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1223152027 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swedish "glans" < 1223152030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, It is needed for English too < 1223152030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1223152036 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1223152037 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1223152040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: hello < 1223152040 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :English "glans" < 1223152040 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: i used what AnMaster used in lingobot, and it seems standard for some reason < 1223152045 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is not synonymous with Swedish "glans" < 1223152046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, English indeed < 1223152052 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(lingobot was a bot of mine that translated words to 150 other languages) < 1223152058 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not like this, it's nice and verbose. < 1223152062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: English is English not English synonymous < 1223152067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: :-P < 1223152077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :English that English is English how English the English correct < 1223152084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :English obviously < 1223152089 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1223152096 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you saying you'd prefer just en:glans? < 1223152098 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok fine :P < 1223152103 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :se:glans != en:glans < 1223152107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, English nicks English doesn't English need English it < 1223152111 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's not verbose enough, have a separate block for each word < 1223152137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, en:you en:don't en:get en:the en:point! en:you en:need en:it en:for en:every en:word < 1223152139 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well but then oklocod < 1223152150 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you dont anmaster, shut up. < 1223152156 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said when talking about words < 1223152157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ok fine :P <-- en:should en:have en:been: en:ok en:fine :P < 1223152158 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not when using them < 1223152160 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres a difference < 1223152163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :en:YES! < 1223152169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Use-mention distinction. < 1223152170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :en:NO en:DIFFERENCE < 1223152172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plz to be learning it. < 1223152175 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you ehird < 1223152179 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're my new best friend < 1223152184 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for knowing that term < 1223152184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure ok, I was just trying to make fun of en:this < 1223152190 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod: Somethingkutendethär? < 1223152197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Haha! You made fun of an entirely different, unjustifiably different thing! < 1223152200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So WITTY < 1223152208 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah! < 1223152211 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he made up en:this too < 1223152213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, thank you < 1223152215 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: how about a question block too? < 1223152219 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suggested the standard natural-language version :P < 1223152220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1223152226 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod: Maybe as an attribute to 'phrase'. < 1223152233 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes, seems fitty < 1223152246 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you'd do good in the semantics class i was in < 1223152247 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no:vanvidd < 1223152248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what does kuten mean? < 1223152259 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's close to en:like. < 1223152264 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it took the students like two weeks to get the use-reference distinction < 1223152265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that wasn't my question < 1223152273 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: kuten = like < 1223152279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, if I had wanted that I would have used > and such < 1223152279 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tho there it was called "object language" and "meta language" < 1223152280 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fi:kuten = en:like < 1223152282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, or maybe CDATA < 1223152285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod, ah < 1223152290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1223152292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blergh < 1223152293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: i've always got it intuitively < 1223152297 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1223152301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought he meant the syntax was like it < 1223152317 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole phrase was trying to be "something like this?" < 1223152341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, hm? you mean pointer vs object? < 1223152342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy < 1223152353 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no :P < 1223152356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh look, AnMaster can only think in C < 1223152359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how unusual < 1223152361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or C++ < 1223152369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or pascal < 1223152369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah uh that'd be worse. < 1223152371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1223152375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you select < 1223152386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm surprised you didn't take the time to respond in obscure erlang to flaunt your skillz in it, though < 1223152403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if you don't stop attacking me I shall begin to use C++ with boost! < 1223152408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to punish you < 1223152413 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the use-reference distinction? err... the fact you can quote strings? < 1223152416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if you begin to use C++ with boost then I'll just /ignore you. < 1223152423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod, hm maybe < 1223152431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hehe < 1223152456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and xerces-c or whatever that horrible xml library is < 1223152471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some java thing ported to c < 1223152473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :horrible < 1223152509 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1223152537 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow xerces is not a misspelling of xerxes < 1223152554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, err? < 1223152559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the library's name? < 1223152561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1223152578 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i noticed you've blurted out two quite low quality puns today; are you feeling alright? < 1223152603 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod: the weight of duty must be getting to me < 1223152622 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :97% is just so hard to acheive, even with bogus accounting < 1223152629 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*achieve < 1223152650 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster: no, i mean code that operates on data < 1223152654 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and data that is itself code < 1223152665 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what do you mean _two_? < 1223152668 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. quotations of the language you're speaking/coding in < 1223152691 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or references to things in the language < 1223152707 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. the word 'word' < 1223152720 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if i higher some recently jobless bankers... < 1223152724 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hire < 1223152726 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: or perhaps just one... i don't remember the other one, i just vaguely recall there was another < 1223152732 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chicago is a major city, 'Chicago' is a 7 letter word. < 1223152740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, Hm I'm not sure exactly what you mean. Do you mean like: Code that operates on another LISP expression vs. running that LISP expression? < 1223152744 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my spelling is off, i think i must be tired < 1223152768 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: he means '(code here) versus (code here) < 1223152770 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean the difference between calling someone a nigger, and saying that there is this word 'nigger' < 1223152776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod, ah! < 1223152779 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first one is data that is code, the second is just code < 1223152784 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: racist! < 1223152791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod, yes I know that much of lisp < 1223152792 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, sir! < 1223152795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1223152797 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :learn the use-reference distinction! < 1223152807 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1223152812 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now see, i was gonna reference lisp but i figured it'd be too easy to miss < 1223152822 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is use) '(this is reference) < 1223152832 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that'd've been prettier < 1223152843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, It should be possible to make a language without that distinction < 1223152845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm.... < 1223152849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*maybe* < 1223152851 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1223152861 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its possible to make a language that doesnt have reference, as such < 1223152872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah well < 1223152875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck for example < 1223152878 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the sense that you can't talk about strings as strings-in-the-language < 1223152886 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just drop evaluation. < 1223152889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and most other tarpits < 1223152891 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you could also code evaluation. < 1223152898 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which ruins it. < 1223152903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, not if it isn't TC! < 1223152908 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1223152912 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then who cares about it ;) < 1223152923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, there are some interesting non-tc languages < 1223152924 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who was it that argued (quite accurately) that C isn't TC? :) < 1223152932 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Such as regex. < 1223152934 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: many < 1223152950 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone has realized that at some point in their life < 1223152960 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and confirmed it @ #esoteric < 1223152962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, I think perl regex may be tc < 1223152965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure though < 1223152972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it should be possible to extend it to me < 1223152974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :be* < 1223152975 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :part of gödel's theorem is essentially that in any sufficiently powerful logical system, you _can_ do reference < 1223152979 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod: Amazing since the vast majority of people know neither C nor what "TC" means :P < 1223152988 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RegEx is boring < 1223152993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, how is "sufficiently" defined? < 1223153001 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, how is C not TC? < 1223153014 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: are you sure about the majority not knowing what C is? < 1223153016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, maybe: "a logical system where you can do reference"? < 1223153017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;D < 1223153017 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :predicate logic + a tiny bit of arithmetic < 1223153018 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my mom knows what C is < 1223153031 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and she's like, a woman < 1223153033 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1223153034 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod, you're finnish < 1223153036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah hm < 1223153038 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod: Your mom is the mom of somebody who knows what C is :P < 1223153038 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your mom is finnish < 1223153042 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finnish people are like < 1223153047 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :born knowing how to hack Linux < 1223153048 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a fact < 1223153054 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is. < 1223153064 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod: If I go ask some random art student what C is, they'll say "UHH, THE LETTER AFTER BEEEEEE" < 1223153077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, and is C TC? < 1223153078 0 :kt3k!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CHOCOA" < 1223153086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, ais523 said it was thanks to the file IO < 1223153087 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster, how isnt C TC? < 1223153104 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: i loved that BEEEEEEE :P < 1223153108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, you need infinite memory, C doesn't allow that. sizeof(char*) must be finite < 1223153112 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: C minus libraries is not TC. C plus libraries with hardware access (which eventually leaves C) is TC. < 1223153118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, so memory size must be finite < 1223153123 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1223153131 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Naturally if you had a libInfiniteTape, C would be TC, but libInfiniteTape can't be written entirely in C. < 1223153147 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why does sizeof char* have to be non-finite? < 1223153155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, well the file IO is part of the standard < 1223153161 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: otherwise only a finite amount of memory can ever be addressed < 1223153163 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1223153182 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: When we talk about languages in #esoteric, we're not talking about libraries ^^ < 1223153189 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Even if those libraries are a standard part of the language :P < 1223153189 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not sure what sure, but does the C SPEC say that pointers have to be of a specific size? < 1223153206 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: no, but they must be of *some* size < 1223153211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, so you talk about freestanding C? As used for kernels < 1223153211 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does the fact that C is on a finite machine require that? < 1223153228 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Shore, but they always have some ASM too. < 1223153229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, and it was ais523 who first mentioned the file IO argument < 1223153235 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod, if that's the case, then _all_ programming languages are non-TC :P < 1223153236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, yes they do < 1223153241 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: no < 1223153248 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: No, because most languages don't have pointers. < 1223153253 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in many languages, there is no need to have an address for an object < 1223153254 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Most *modern* languages anyway) < 1223153255 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1223153266 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure but the C spec doesnt say that pointers have to be of some specific size does it? < 1223153279 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: no, but they must be of some finite size when execution starrts < 1223153280 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*starts < 1223153282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, the problem is the size of the pointer itself have to be finite < 1223153283 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1223153293 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok < 1223153294 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :firstly < 1223153304 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all usable numbers are finite < 1223153307 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that does not mean its not TC < 1223153319 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since every memory address on an infinitely long tape is also a finite number < 1223153322 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: the set of all usable numbers is infinite extendable < 1223153325 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no tape-cell Infinity < 1223153328 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't have pointers < 1223153333 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes oklocod < 1223153339 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are an infinite set of usbale numbers < 1223153343 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turing-completeness doesn't need infinite memory, just infinitely extendable < 1223153344 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: sizeof(int *) has to be a finite number, no int pointer can be larger than that < 1223153347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, "finite size when execution *starts*" < 1223153347 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but NONE of those numbers themselves are infinitely large < 1223153355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, you need to be able to grow it forever < 1223153359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at runtime < 1223153359 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: nothing needs to be infinitely large < 1223153361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not allowed < 1223153370 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: With a tape you don't need to absolutely address any of those finite numbers. < 1223153376 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i think i see what you mean sorry < 1223153408 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: turing completeness is not about actually ever being able to allocate infinite memory, just that for any finite amount of memory the program may request at runtime, that amount of memory will be accessible < 1223153413 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean that because you have to be able to talk about the size of specific pointers in C < 1223153416 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cant get TCness < 1223153420 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for any pointer size, this is not enough. < 1223153423 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because those pointers, being crucial to C's TCness < 1223153429 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will always be finite < 1223153431 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1223153437 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1223153448 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mind you, it's a strawman argument since C is defined for finite machines :) < 1223153454 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not sure how pointers are crucial to TCness but < 1223153464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, you need memory < 1223153481 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait a minute does C say anything about the unit of sizeof? < 1223153491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, only that it must be finite < 1223153494 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, it's a byte < 1223153494 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure but i dont have to allocate memory myself when doing, say, int five = 5 < 1223153496 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1223153497 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...or is it < 1223153499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1223153502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod, sure? < 1223153504 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i dont care about its address < 1223153505 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think we've went over this < 1223153506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be size_t < 1223153511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod, it is size_t < 1223153511 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: An type with infinite range can't actually store the pseudonumber "infinity" anyway. < 1223153513 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and im fairly certain that you can get TCness with just that < 1223153513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure < 1223153517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod, ^ < 1223153522 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1223153523 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1223153527 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what oerjan is asking < 1223153527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and size_t is as large as pointers are < 1223153530 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: But everything in C must be addressable: That is &var must always be defined. < 1223153531 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without any reference to pointers or pointer tizes < 1223153532 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sizes* < 1223153536 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: Whether you use it or not. < 1223153538 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is whether size_t could be abstract, and actually a bignum < 1223153542 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that so < 1223153546 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then that ruins the argument, GregorR: < 1223153551 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that's what i'm asking < 1223153560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, sizeof() returns a size_t, sizeof(size_t) == sizeof(int*) < 1223153561 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the argument was that the size of the pointer was crucial to TCness < 1223153562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... < 1223153563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't help < 1223153578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it needs to be finite when execution starts < 1223153579 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you can build a TC bit of code without referencing the size of a pointer < 1223153586 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: No, it was that /because/ C lets you address any variable, the size of pointers is crucial to the definition of C. < 1223153587 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the size of a pointer ISNT crucial to TCness < 1223153598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, err see what I said < 1223153598 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: You could make a subset of C that didn't have that property and would be TC, yes. < 1223153601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't be bignum < 1223153603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I said < 1223153604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1223153629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, and you can't access memory without pointers < 1223153647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, so you can't malloc() a block larger than a pointer < 1223153658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :larger than the range of a pointer* < 1223153668 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not sure you'd need to do malloc() to make something TC in C. < 1223153683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, or access offsets in a static array either < 1223153687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an array you can't grow < 1223153694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, however it is TC with file IO < 1223153695 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not sure you'd need ARRAYS to make TCness in C. < 1223153714 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just dont see how the size of something unrelated to TCness can affect TCness. < 1223153733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, you need infinite memory, You can't access memory outside the range of pointers in C < 1223153735 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, ok, the C spec requires size(int*) be finite, meaning that it requires finite memory, meaning its not TC < 1223153738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather < 1223153746 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, fine. that i can see as a sort-of-argument < 1223153766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, prove it is TC even without file IO then < 1223153770 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Death to the infidels. < 1223153811 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but thats more about how pointers are implemented in C, not about C itself. < 1223153829 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i mean is, couldn't sizeof(int *) = 1, and _still_ int pointers have infinite range because the sizeof unit is infinite < 1223153839 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: the finite pointer size basically means, you have a turing machine, but there is a finite amount of cells it can ever reach. < 1223153847 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, i get that < 1223153852 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but thats not a fact about C, oklocod < 1223153859 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats a fact about the real world < 1223153859 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infact it is < 1223153866 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C merely reflects this fact < 1223153870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, sizeof(char) == 1 by definition. char must be a finite number of bits (the define CHAR_BIT iirc) < 1223153877 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is about C, because C guarantees you need to be able to address a variable. < 1223153882 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1223153886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, pointer must be whole bytes < 1223153906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, could be CHAR_BITS btw, not sure about the name < 1223153907 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can address an INFINITE number of variables in C! you just need enough memory to store that many variables < 1223153908 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: did you fix your hat count? :D < 1223153908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that exists < 1223153915 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ? < 1223153920 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a c-compiler to know how big the memory addresses are for that memory. < 1223153923 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: you need to be able to access them all with a finite pointer. < 1223153931 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: the count on your hats page is outdated < 1223153932 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, hah < 1223153934 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"twenty" :P < 1223153937 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod: finite for what purpose tho? < 1223153937 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just remove the count. < 1223153958 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: finite, as in there will always be a program that allocates a greater amount of memory < 1223153961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, hat page? < 1223153964 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because C guarantees you can address all the pointers doesnt mean that being ABLE to address all pointers is relevant to TCness < 1223153969 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :than can be addressed < 1223153995 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does C dynamically adjust pointer sizes to handle memory differences? < 1223153997 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is < 1223154000 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://codu.org/hats.php < 1223154006 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: pointer sizes are static. < 1223154013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, "finite and fixed when program starts" < 1223154014 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if my machine has more memory than yours, does C know this, and alter its pointer size? < 1223154016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as mentioned above < 1223154023 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when the program starts, i get that < 1223154026 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but thats not the question < 1223154038 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question is does the size depend on what machine you start the program on < 1223154040 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: C doesn't say anything about the pointer size < 1223154046 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that has nothing to do with this argument < 1223154049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than it needs to be finite < 1223154052 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofcourse it does < 1223154058 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has EVERYTHING to do with it < 1223154063 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhhuh? < 1223154067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, you can't create/use memory that can't be accessed with a pointer in C < 1223154071 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because C DOES let you address any and all variables you want < 1223154077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so every variable needs to be accessible with a pointer < 1223154081 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you cant anmaster < 1223154092 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bBUT < 1223154100 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres no such thing as memory that cant be accessed by a C pointer < 1223154102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and every variable need to have an unique address < 1223154105 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :merely memory your computer doesnt have < 1223154110 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this is not a fact about C! < 1223154114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, wrong < 1223154116 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god < 1223154117 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not wrong < 1223154120 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BLAH BLAH BLAH < 1223154124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, you could have a 32-bit C on a 64-bit machine < 1223154125 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I BLAH YOUR BLAHS UNTIL BLAH BLAH < 1223154130 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: even with an infinitely large memory C wouldn't be tc < 1223154133 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1223154138 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster < 1223154140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod, indeed < 1223154147 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said C addresses any memory you have < 1223154155 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod: irrelevant < 1223154158 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: do you blah about this? < 1223154158 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: something like scheme48 ( upon which scsh was based) would be < 1223154162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: You are wrong, C is not turing complete, end of. < 1223154166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, no I didn't. I said every variable must be addressable < 1223154167 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no. < 1223154169 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're wrong. < 1223154182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, and a C program can't access any memory that is not addressable with a pointer < 1223154184 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all computations require only finite, but indefinitely large amounts of momory < 1223154187 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :memory* < 1223154189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: Of course I am, because you have continually shown that your attitude is that you cannot possibly be wrong, especially your intuitions. < 1223154194 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1223154197 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all halting computations < 1223154229 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: the point is you cannot calculate the needed size in advance < 1223154234 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1223154237 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you dont need to < 1223154242 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if you try and it fails < 1223154246 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you try again with more memory < 1223154247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, pointer size can't change at runtime < 1223154255 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus proving that there is no computation that cannot be performed in C < 1223154265 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so long as you are given the appropriate amount of memory < 1223154270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :way to go psygnisfive, whenever someone explains when you are wrong ignore them < 1223154272 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus proving that C is, despite your idiocy, Turing Complete < 1223154281 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster, i didnt say change it at runtime < 1223154285 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you read what i just said? < 1223154301 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: but a single C program run isn't Turing Complete < 1223154306 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so? < 1223154306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, restarting the program on another system is not valid for TC < 1223154307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which < 1223154308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is < 1223154311 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're not talking about a C program run < 1223154315 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're talking about C THE LANGUAGE < 1223154323 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes it is valid, anmaster < 1223154325 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its completely valid < 1223154327 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: that's a valid point, yes < 1223154343 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you're talking about individual RUNS of a program in C < 1223154346 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and im talking about C itself < 1223154356 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of COURSE individual runs are not TC < 1223154370 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that too is a problem with computers being finite < 1223154379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're talking hypothetical < 1223154382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hypothetical < 1223154383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, no you are wrong, since the program is basically another one if you change pointer size < 1223154384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turing machines < 1223154384 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes we are < 1223154385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are not finite < 1223154394 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster: thats ok < 1223154396 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: the problem here is that C is then not a single language in the CS theoretical sense < 1223154397 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not talking about programs < 1223154398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are talking about C running on a machine with actual, real, infinite tape < 1223154403 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im talking about a programming language < 1223154406 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you dont seem to get < 1223154411 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it becomes a family of languages indexed by pointer size < 1223154415 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: ignore AnMaster and ehird, and listen to oerjan < 1223154421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes hm < 1223154422 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that is the first sensible response. < 1223154442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod, well s/AnMaster and// ;P < 1223154453 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: your arguments weren't exactly sensible until recently either :P < 1223154463 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to that i'd say, in that case, sure. but then it makes no sense to say the C language is not TC since there is no such thing as the C language, merely particular C languages with specific pointer sizes < 1223154466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod, indeed < 1223154475 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, debate over < 1223154476 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone wins < 1223154480 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1223154482 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially me < 1223154490 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're hot < 1223154493 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you always win < 1223154493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod, no especially oerjan < 1223154495 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hurrah! Icecream to everyone! < 1223154500 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :icecream! :D < 1223154507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what flavour? < 1223154513 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocum icecream < 1223154514 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, i win. i'm the winner < 1223154515 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, when is oklocod and psygnisfive going to marry? < 1223154520 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good question < 1223154526 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod, when are we going to marry? < 1223154540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hopefully soon so they can stop spamming #esoteric with it. < 1223154545 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't decided yet < 1223154545 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1223154547 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once we do < 1223154549 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll be worse < 1223154554 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cause we'll have wedding photos < 1223154564 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i'm still waiting for your proposal < 1223154567 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION likes icecream with chocolate bits
< 1223154567 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and honey moon photos < 1223154570 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which proposal? < 1223154577 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can propose lots of things < 1223154648 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone done a wedding proposal on Agora yet, i wonder < 1223154663 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, a wedding proposal, oklocod? < 1223154667 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. oklocod, marry me :O < 1223154707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I prefer vanilla icecream < 1223154714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that would be awesome < 1223154726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: 'Proposal: Marriage (AI=1) { ... }' < 1223154733 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well vanilla icecream with chocolate sauce is also a favorite < 1223154734 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats agora? < 1223154743 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.agoranomic.org < 1223154744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no............ < 1223154745 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: vanilla icecream plain is decicious < 1223154750 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god < 1223154753 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a nomic < 1223154754 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1223154761 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1223154763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I prefer with maple syrup < 1223154771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION rips AnMaster's and psygnisfive's head off for insulting the Great Mighty 15-Year-Old Agora
< 1223154791 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh im not insulting agora < 1223154792 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dont you worry < 1223154794 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i think AnMaster was discussing icecream < 1223154807 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im just confused by the popularity of nomics in general < 1223154813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: why not < 1223154816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're fun < 1223154839 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont like games, so thats partially why ;) < 1223154849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ever tried it? Oh and Ice cream made from fresh vanilla pods. Not just some vanilla-flavoured sugar. < 1223154855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, games are trivial! < 1223154857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like wierd < 1223154860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amirite < 1223154876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, ice cream in any form, shape or anything is amazing < 1223154877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kthx < 1223154881 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, im not saying people dont find them to be fun < 1223154892 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just not one of the people that does. :P < 1223154906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure but some forms is tastier than other ones < 1223154914 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gelato < 1223154915 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guys < 1223154916 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1223154917 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gelato. < 1223154919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well... it's kind of like bacon < 1223154925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's not much room for suckitude :-P < 1223154927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, with icecream? < 1223154930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1223154931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bacon < 1223154933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with icecream < 1223154934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my god < 1223154936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are a GENIUS < 1223154937 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive is italian? < 1223154938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ugh < 1223154944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOMEONE MAKE IT, NOW < 1223154955 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im not italian < 1223154958 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just love gelato < 1223154960 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its tasty < 1223154965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : you are a GENIUS <-- well thank you < 1223154974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shall remember that for the future < 1223154975 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION thought it:gelato = en:icecream
< 1223154977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well only on the subject of bacon ice cream. < 1223154979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1223154991 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a donut shop in Portland that makes Bacon Maple Bars < 1223154992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gelato sez wp < 1223154994 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They = awesome. < 1223155007 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: not exactly true < 1223155008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, please say it again with "AnMaster:" in front (without quotes), so optbot could put it in topic! < 1223155009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;D < 1223155009 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i dunno < 1223155012 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are slight differences in how its made < 1223155018 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its italian icecream, yes < 1223155023 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it tends to be not quite the same < 1223155024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, optbot strips those off < 1223155024 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Screen brightness. Turn it down. :P < 1223155035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Hmm. Say, an #esoteric meetup in Portland. YES THAT SOUNDS GOOD < 1223155036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, blergh < 1223155037 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that mad english cook has an egg and bacon icecream, was mentioned in the Ig Nobel news recently < 1223155044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION plots to steal all the bacon maple bars
< 1223155046 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't live in Portland now :P < 1223155056 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my experience, gelato is smoother and heavier < 1223155058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, Portland in what country? < 1223155060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Well... fine it'll be a very lonely meetup < 1223155060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1223155077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: US i'm guessing. < 1223155092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1223155102 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a Portland, UK? I can't imagine there's a Portland anywhere else ... < 1223155107 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yeah, I was referring to Portland, OR, USA. < 1223155118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are like < 1223155121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5000000000000 portlands < 1223155124 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: maybe it's like it:pizza /= us:pizza < 1223155126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Portland < 1223155144 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i imagine so < 1223155147 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1223155152 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ca:pizza != ny:pizza < 1223155163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, what about Australia? < 1223155179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ehird was first < 1223155276 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Portland, OR, USA is the only Portland of significance :P < 1223155289 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a Sortland, Norway at least < 1223155307 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its it sort of like portland? < 1223155329 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never been to a portland < 1223155362 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh btw europeans, especially french and germans: < 1223155382 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flammekuche is delicious < 1223155408 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /tarte flambee < 1223155420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am kind of european. i'm in europe but my country cries whenever anybody says europe < 1223155444 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which country? england? they dont like being part of europe. < 1223155464 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, ehird < 1223155465 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're tusho < 1223155466 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1223155468 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forgot that < 1223155469 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1223155476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Durr. < 1223155480 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3u < 1223155484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, Europan Union! < 1223155493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no I don't really like it) < 1223155503 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod, whens your birthday? < 1223155509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: our government keep weaseling out of european union stuff :-P < 1223155520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you are lucky < 1223155525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wish our would do it too < 1223155538 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you guys dont like the EU? < 1223155548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why? I haven't seen actual objections to the EU beyond the beauocracy < 1223155550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[sp] < 1223155552 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but who's going to check America's international influence? CHINA? RUSSIA? < 1223155560 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that americans influence is so hot these days but < 1223155586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well that is one part, and the other part is that, while for some countries stuff improved with EU, it went the other way for Sweden. We used to have better social security before EU < 1223155589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1223155595 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a beauocracy would be something < 1223155601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: bearocracy < 1223155608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the government consists of bears < 1223155610 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that too < 1223155611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it seems everything goes to some average < 1223155612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the bears decide everything. < 1223155623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, see what I mean? < 1223155628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I guess. < 1223155649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so for Sweden it really been a bad thing. For some other countries it has been a good thing < 1223155839 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, beanocracy < 1223155847 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and beatocracy < 1223156151 0 :lilja!n=idler@a91-153-123-88.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1223157217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am a bear < 1223157217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^_^ < 1223157234 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'M PROZAC THE BEAR < 1223157239 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: rawr < 1223157241 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :::pounce:: < 1223157245 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :::maul:: < 1223157247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: no. < 1223157259 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1223157264 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :r..rar? < 1223157301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS IS A BEAR HELLO < 1223157303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :( http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/bearhello ) < 1223157389 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres a whole series of those < 1223157396 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i wish i remember where i found them < 1223157399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, there isn't < 1223157401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however < 1223157403 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is < 1223157404 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1223157405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of Somebody's toons are like that < 1223157406 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres like 5 of them < 1223157407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but its not a series < 1223157410 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1223157411 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1223157421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bear hello is the masterpiece though < 1223157443 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love Somebody's stuff < 1223157448 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theyre very surreal and fucked up < 1223157457 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and completely disconnected < 1223157462 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're beautiful < 1223157471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i think bear hello makes some sort of sense if you recognize that its not in chronological order < 1223157486 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww man dont say that < 1223157491 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making sense is for chumps < 1223157494 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tho then again < 1223157502 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :non-linear story telling is also pretty awesome < 1223157514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://shii.org/knows/Bear_Hello <- a scholarly interpretation of bear hello < 1223157515 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sense it no! make cannot < 1223157520 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have other Somebody art? < 1223158167 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird! < 1223158170 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more somebody@ < 1223158291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: google. use it < 1223158444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, Talk like Yoda day it isn't < 1223158477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it yes. < 1223158533 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't indeed it < 1223158582 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21 May, Talk like Yoda day is. < 1223158678 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Är det inte Kim Jong-Il som sitter der borta? < 1223158887 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*där < 1223158915 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tried, ehird but it didnt work :( < 1223158926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: shrug < 1223159110 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woo i found more < 1223159110 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1223159116 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw < 1223159117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link? ive seen one more of his < 1223159119 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tusho < 1223159119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nothing else < 1223159125 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you for link me to bear hello < 1223159128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also there is no tusho in #esoteric < 1223159131 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.albinoblacksheep.com/flash/misc/ < 1223159132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also no problem. < 1223159141 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive beenlooking for him for fucking ages < 1223159147 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, why did you go back to ehird? < 1223159149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, he made puppy whirl? < 1223159152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crazy. < 1223159191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: also because i felt like it < 1223159245 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1223159247 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3you anyway < 1223159254 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3ed you more as tusho < 1223159274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh shut up. < 1223159299 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i just liked "tusho" better. it sounded cooler. < 1223159318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also had a quota of 1 'tush' joke a day < 1223159329 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::\ < 1223159336 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :::hug:: well i liked it and i never made such crude jokes < 1223159339 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok im off < 1223159341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1223159342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes you did < 1223159342 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :::pet:: see ya < 1223159345 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did not! < 1223159348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you did, once < 1223159354 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would never < 1223159360 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mainly because i didnt read it like that < 1223159364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should i grep to find it < 1223159365 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was too-show for me < 1223159366 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tu-sho < 1223159372 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i never noticed that "tush" reading at all < 1223159376 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, bye :P < 1223159402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw GCC got something called "objective-c++" < 1223159404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shudder* < 1223159413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't looked closer at it < 1223159414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: thats not gcc specific < 1223159418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1223159418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its for interfacing C++ and obj-c code < 1223159419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats all < 1223159453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it still sounds awful < 1223159461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: probably, but you gotta use c++ stuff somehow < 1223159466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Objective-C#Objective-C.2B.2B < 1223159488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its just the objective- transformation applied to c++ instead of c < 1223159489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1223159499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no actual interaction < 1223159529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not GCC specific you said? < 1223159534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wikipedia seems to disagree < 1223159536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: originated in gcc. < 1223159567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what other compilers have it? < 1223159575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno. < 1223159583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc is like the only obj-c out there < 1223159585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from that one guys' < 1223159589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is useless < 1223159593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he has a vendetta against apple < 1223159597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so gcc specific then? < 1223159600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more or less < 1223159600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus no actual obj-c program compiles with his impl < 1223159603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it is totally different < 1223159609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: theres not anything in that that is _specific_ to gcc < 1223159612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think gcc is the only current impl < 1223159618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then gcc is the only real obj-c impl < 1223159622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so only as much as obj-c is gcc specific < 1223159660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you think of the language "Dylan" < 1223159667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know almost nothing of it < 1223159673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: its a lisp derivative < 1223159674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with syntax < 1223159675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however I ran into it a few times recently < 1223159676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and OOP < 1223159680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it originally wasn't syntaxful < 1223159685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was made syntaxful to appeal to a wider market < 1223159688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a shame < 1223159688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm good or bad? < 1223159693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah bad then I guess < 1223159706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not an improvement, but it DOES show that a lisp can have added-syntax and not break < 1223159717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define method factorial(n :: ) < 1223159717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (n = 0) < 1223159717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 < 1223159717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : else < 1223159718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : n * factorial(n - 1) < 1223159719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : end < 1223159721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :end method; < 1223159723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of pascally < 1223159736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is quite easy to read < 1223159746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, pascally languages generally are very easy to read < 1223159749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not easy to write < 1223159755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1223159767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it prevents the best thing with lisp < 1223159771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :macros < 1223159777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not the best < 1223159780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but one major point < 1223159783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes macros < 1223159832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw in "R5RS" what does the R and the RS stand for? < 1223159842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Revised^5 Report on the Algorithmic Language Scheme < 1223159843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it went like < 1223159848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1223159849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Revised Report on the Algorithmic Language Scheme < 1223159851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Revised Revised Report on the Algorithmic Language Scheme < 1223159853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Revised Revised Revised Report on the Algorithmic Language Scheme < 1223159856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Revised^4 Report on the Algorithmic Language Scheme < 1223159859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1223159864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because nobody could be arsed to write out that many "Revised"s < 1223159880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have used "5th" < 1223159882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1223159888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this is cooler < 1223159889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but that's less fun < 1223159892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1223159892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1223159909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its up to Revised Revised Revised Revised Revised Revised Report on the Algorithmic Language Scheme < 1223159911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although as i said < 1223159916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R6RS wasn't really passed in < 1223159919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by any sane vote counting method < 1223159927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm... < 1223159935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the standard is bad? < 1223159942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: pretty much, yes < 1223159945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how so? < 1223159962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it adds a base standard library to scheme, which is cool, but its not structured very schemey < 1223159968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it also bloats the language < 1223159970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I see.. < 1223159972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with some unneccessary stuff < 1223159980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, a standard library *is* a good idea however < 1223159990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't disagree < 1223159993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but r6rs isn't the answer < 1223159994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would make portable scheme programs actually be possible < 1223160006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well r7rs then :) < 1223160013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, because that'll be a revision of r7rs < 1223160017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably wants to be compatible with r5 hm... < 1223160023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "of r6..." < 1223160024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and most of the scheme community has disavowed the committee < 1223160041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said r7 would be a revision or r7 < 1223160042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1223160047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1223160048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"{ < 1223160048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1223160052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[On 29 August 2007, the Revised Revised Revised Revised Revised Revised Report on Scheme was ratified by the Steering Committee. This has made a lot of people quite angry and has been widely regarded as a bad move. < 1223160052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many programmers believe that it was created by some sort of community process, though the Jatravartid people of Viltvodle VI believe that the entire Standard was in fact sneezed out of the nose of a being called the Great Green Arkleseizure. This theory is not widely accepted outside Viltvodle VI, and so, standards being the puzzling documents that they are, other standards are being designed. And this wiki, which is called SchemePunks, is definitely not part < 1223160056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is very odd, because without that fairly simple piece of knowledge, nothing that is written on here could possibly make the slightest bit of sense. We hope to develop an alternative specification for the Family of Programming Languages known as Scheme. Watch this space.]] < 1223160060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that likely got cut off < 1223160084 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice HHGTTG reference < 1223160090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, from scheme-punks.org < 1223160096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second paragraph got cut off < 1223160097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't it < 1223160107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is called SchemePunks, is definitely not par < 1223160107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Which is very odd < 1223160121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t of the Scheme Underground, even if it is, which it isn't. < 1223160128 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... definitely not part < 1223160140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"R6RS must die." -- Chicken lead developer Felix Winkelmann < 1223160155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1223160170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: < 1223160172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://lists.r6rs.org/pipermail/r6rs-discuss/2007-October/003351.html < 1223160180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole list of people who ain't gonna implement r6rs < 1223160181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisp should have module name spaces < 1223160184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Spoiler: all of them) < 1223160187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: common lisp does < 1223160197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mmmh :) < 1223160205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it makes code easier to organise < 1223160212 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1223160216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: plt has modules and such < 1223160228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plt is as featureful as common lisp, really, just with a more schemish (generally cleaner) attitude < 1223160235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yep. However non-portable code troubles me < 1223160241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :call it a character flaw if you want < 1223160252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i don't like the scheme situation either < 1223160253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT < 1223160256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :common lisp isn't any more portable < 1223160261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1223160262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :common lisp has no portable networking etc < 1223160265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we need portable lisp < 1223160278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: except that attempts to reinvent lisp have been almost universally poor < 1223160344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im considering doing something with plt scheme sometime < 1223160348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to kind of show my support for it < 1223160351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reach out to more languages < 1223160394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh, also < 1223160409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? < 1223160438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the reviews of Chez Scheme i've read are _very_ highly praised, it sounds like its IDE is state of the art (really good analysis, refactoring and such cools) and apparently its library set is really good < 1223160446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it was first released in 1985 < 1223160447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and uses incremental native-code compilation < 1223160451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(read: really really fast) < 1223160451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT < 1223160454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it costs $$$ < 1223160467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if ((pool->first_free - pool->base) >= (POOL_ARRAY_COUNT * sizeof(memory_block))) <-- GCC complains that I compare signed and unsigned, but I can't figure out which side it thinks is signed.. < 1223160471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i guess PLT isn't *the best* but it's the best to *use* < 1223160487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed scheme.com (chez scheme site) doesn't even list the price < 1223160493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a 'contact us for licensing information' < 1223160497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is code for '$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$' < 1223160512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah found it < 1223160641 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-11-118.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1223161576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1223161671 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b < 1223161993 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot! < 1223161994 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | S pushed 647201 < 1223162472 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Re R6RS, note that "all of them" does not include PLT. < 1223162807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guys - < 1223162808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :      < 1223162812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are odd unicode chars in that line < 1223162815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\xc2\xa0 < 1223162816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is u < 1223162817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it < 1223162824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not even unicode < 1223162826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just invalid... < 1223162861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: do you know < 1223163027 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0xc2, 0xa0 -> 0b11000010 0b10100000 -UTF8-> 0b00010100000 -> U+00A0 NO-BREAK SPACE < 1223163059 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe a "-[de-UTF8]->" notation would be more appropriate. < 1223163101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: sqlite3.OperationalError: Could not decode to UTF-8 column 'text' with text 'Wooble is a coauthor of this proposal. < 1223163103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, its not utf-8/ < 1223163116 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, 0xc2 0xa0 _is_ UTF-8 encoding for no-break space. < 1223163282 0 :lilja!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"KVIrc 3.2.0 'Realia'" < 1223163727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :valgrind: the 'impossible' happened: < 1223163727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Killed by fatal signal < 1223163734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my code is really fucked up atm < 1223163736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1223163741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it crashed valgrind itself < 1223164143 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | i would be really happy if someone checked if the update is ok. :-) < 1223164734 0 :moozilla!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)