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00:56:51 <bsmntbombdood> would a lazy but nonfunctional language even work?
01:01:16 <oc2k1> there is nothing that can't work...
01:02:44 <oerjan> as long as you have some kind of dependency relation - one thing needs to be executed before another can
01:04:16 <oc2k1>  or execute all at the same time and drop all irrelevant results :P
01:04:29 <oerjan> that's not lazy execution though, but lenient
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01:45:07 <CO2Bot> ^def ultraevil bf ,[>+[<+>>+<-]>[<+>-]<<.,]
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01:45:40 <CO2Bot> ^def ultraevil bf ,[>+[<+>>+<-]>[<+>-]<<.,]
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01:46:06 <CO2Games> ^ultraevil foo
01:46:14 <CO2Games> bot.say ^ultraevil foo
01:46:23 <CO2Games> bot.say ^ultraevil foo
01:46:23 <CO2Bot> ^ultraevil foo
01:46:28 <CO2Games> mhmm
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01:47:14 <oc2k1> what would the bot do with a quine ?
01:50:16 <oerjan> bots generally don't see their own messages
01:51:03 <oc2k1> Then we should add a second one :P
01:51:43 <oerjan> been there, done that :D
01:52:48 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | okay, it was a bad argument.
01:56:02 <oc2k1> the BF quines aren't very short, and the command string would make them more complex...
01:57:51 <oerjan> yeah we usually used some other language
01:59:01 <oerjan> Underload has very short quines, and has a BF implementation
02:00:13 <oerjan> oh and fungot's ^echo ^echo is a quine, though i don't think we ever had two of those
02:00:32 <oerjan> it's easy with bots like fungot where you can use BF to define other commands
02:02:51 <oc2k1> Another topic: A Cellular automaton, but a modification: The structur can be changed by forking a cell (empty space should allow growing)
02:03:26 <oerjan> that gets a bit weird with dimension > 1
02:03:57 <oc2k1> if each cell can read neigbor cells variables, it should be possible to grow structures
02:09:41 <oerjan> i'm pretty sure there are some concurrent computation models based on doing this with general graphs, but i cannot remember the name
02:11:23 <oerjan> oh i thought it might be kolmogorov machines, but they are not concurrent
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03:52:30 <CO2Games> I have a partially working drainfuck bot now
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06:04:13 <oklocod> oooooooo
06:04:15 <oklocod> ->
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07:48:34 <psygnisfive> o.o
07:48:37 <psygnisfive> oklocod
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07:52:48 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | ~exec __import__("time").sleep(10);self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :10").
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08:24:49 <AnMaster> "Numbers that fool the Fermat test are called Carmichael numbers, and little is known about them other than that they are extremely rare. There are 255 Carmichael numbers below 100,000,000. The smallest few are 561, 1105, 1729, 2465, 2821, and 6601. In testing primality of very large numbers chosen at random, the chance of stumbling upon a value that fools the Fermat test is less than the chance that
08:24:49 <AnMaster> cosmic radiation will cause the computer to make an error in carrying out a ``correct'' algorithm. Considering an algorithm to be inadequate for the first reason but not for the second illustrates the difference between mathematics and engineering."
08:24:52 <AnMaster> How deep...
08:25:09 <psygnisfive> whats the fermat test?
08:25:10 <AnMaster> (source: footnote in scip)
08:25:51 <AnMaster> http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/book-Z-H-11.html#%_sec_1.2.6
08:26:01 <psygnisfive> wait so whats the point being made? lol
08:26:24 <psygnisfive> that the fermat test, while not a prime test, is heuristically more reliable than an actual prime test?
08:26:49 <AnMaster> it is a probabilistic prime test
08:26:55 <psygnisfive> yah
08:26:56 <psygnisfive> ok
08:27:00 <AnMaster> however my point was "Considering an algorithm to be inadequate for the first reason but not for the second illustrates the difference between mathematics and engineering."
08:27:06 <AnMaster> being a very deep statement
08:27:35 <psygnisfive> i presume the former is mathematics and the latter is engineering
08:29:25 * AnMaster considers a strongly typed LISP
08:29:30 <AnMaster> wonder if that would work at all
08:29:34 <AnMaster> probably not
08:30:02 <AnMaster> psygnisfive, and yes I would say so
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08:44:22 <psygnisfive> night guys
10:04:53 <oklocod> i'm pretty sure that quote is also in wp
10:05:49 <oklocod> oh, right, i've read half of sicp
10:06:06 <oklocod> so perhaps i just remember it from there
10:12:04 <oklocod> (arity 2) Both arguments must be integers. They are subtracted. If a negative value results, they get added instead. <<< ehird: pure geniosity :P
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12:32:33 <oklocod> i think i've overloaded my brain with reading.
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13:23:56 <oklopol> but, luckily i just finished my 600 pages, and can move to simpler subjects
13:23:57 <oklopol> \o/
13:24:32 <oklopol> Declarative Programming, the last exam had something like a recursive fibonacci program you had to add comments to... :P
13:24:58 <oklopol> iz gona be smooooth sailin
13:25:20 <ais523> yes, probably
13:26:32 <oklopol> there's quite a list of issues conserning laziness, dataflow variables and single-assignment and difference list based streams in concurrent declarative programming in the book
13:27:03 <oklopol> so it's not a trivial read, but the exam usually only has one theoretical question, mainly because the actual declarative programming part is totally new for so many
13:27:07 <oklopol> ppl
13:27:44 <oklopol> and i need to go to the shoppy ->
13:29:34 <oklopol> well it wasn't just a recursive fibonacci, it was a function from two fibonacci numbers to the next fibonacci number, and a procedure to give the next number and another procedure etc, written in a prolog-like syntax (basically, returns are just assigning given single-assignment vars)
13:30:29 <ais523> ah, yes
13:30:31 <oklopol> but, well, i could've reverse-engineered it easily without knowing the language, so doesn't matter
13:30:39 <ais523> more languages ought to return things the way Prolog does
13:30:46 <oklopol> yes, it's quite pretty
13:30:52 <ais523> because it lets you write easily-symmetrical functions
13:31:01 <oklopol> yeah
13:31:35 <oklopol> the language the book uses is kinda neat, a subset of oz or mozart, not sure which is the name of the language and which is the implementation
13:32:38 <oklopol> single-assignment variables, so you can pass them down and return really anywhere in the recursion
13:32:57 <oklopol> by assigning them, and coming back up from the call tree
13:33:34 <oklopol> they have a continuationy feel to them, and the way to do name/value distinction is simply beautiful
13:33:54 <oklopol> but why didn't i leave, i'm in a hurry
13:33:59 <oklopol> cya ->
13:34:05 <ais523> bye
13:38:27 <ais523>      "Dear google.com,
13:38:27 <ais523>     I visited your website and noticed that you are not listed in most of the major search engines and directories..."
13:38:27 <ais523> apparently that's some genuine spam that Google got once
13:52:48 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | offsets?.
14:23:11 <oklopol> :D
14:23:24 <oklopol> i bet they contacted to guy for profit!
15:00:39 <ehird> [14:59] • AnMaster considers a strongly typed LISP
15:00:41 <ehird> [14:59] AnMaster: wonder if that would work at all
15:00:43 <ehird> [14:59] AnMaster: probably not
15:00:45 <ehird> yes it would
15:01:35 <ais523> I think it could work
15:01:44 <ais523> not sure how much point there would be, but no theoretical obstacles
15:06:30 <oklopol> according to the definition in my book, lisp is already strongly typed, you cannot take a value, and treat it as something it's not
15:06:35 <oklopol> it's just dynamically typed
15:06:48 <oklopol> really i've seen so many definitions i don't know what to think
15:07:10 <oklopol> A programming language characteristic that provides strict adherence to the rules of typing. Data of one type (integer, string, etc.) cannot be passed to a variable expecting data of a different type. Contrast with weak typing.
15:07:22 <oklopol> kinda iffy what that means.
15:07:34 <oklopol> oh
15:07:38 <oklopol> passed to a variable
15:07:46 <oklopol> that would mean staticnessity
15:09:41 <oklopol> i like the definition that weak/strong is about being able to meddle with the type of a value, and static/dynamic about whether variables can have a type at compile time
15:10:46 <oklopol> so C would be weak+static, lisp would be strong+dynamic
15:11:24 <oklopol> you cannot use a string as an int in lisp, while you can do that in c, on the other hand, lisp is dynamic, c is static
15:11:27 <Asztal^_^> that's how I see it
15:11:45 <Asztal^_^> and haskell is strong + static, PHP is weak + dynamic
15:11:49 <oklopol> yes
15:19:09 <ehird> ya
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15:34:10 <AnMaster> <oklopol> it's just dynamically typed
15:34:11 <AnMaster> hm
15:34:17 <AnMaster> ok bad wording from me
15:34:23 <AnMaster> strongly statically typed
15:34:25 <AnMaster> was what I meant
15:34:30 <ehird> AnMaster: yes
15:34:31 <ehird> that is easy
15:34:33 <ehird> what is the barrier
15:35:11 <AnMaster> can't really see it fitting into the lisp "idea"
15:35:15 <AnMaster> oh well
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16:51:18 <ehird> “There are two types of people in the world: those who can’t tell the difference between Arial and Helvetica, and those who despise Arial.” –John Gruber
16:51:51 <ehird> wb ais523
16:53:53 <psygnisfive> oh john gruber
17:00:59 <psygnisfive> :o
17:01:05 <psygnisfive> i get to make robots soon :D
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17:03:52 <ehird> john gruber annoys me most of the time but i liked that
17:04:03 <psygnisfive> hahahahaha
17:04:03 <psygnisfive> http://www.collegehumor.com/article:1763156#more
17:04:07 <psygnisfive> thrill of stealing
17:04:08 <psygnisfive> XD
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17:18:53 <psygnisfive> http://i33.tinypic.com/14xfng5.jpg
17:22:15 <ehird> psygnisfive: Hahaha! It's as funny as it was in 2006!!
17:22:49 <psygnisfive> http://img73.imageshack.us/img73/8080/droughtxc8.gif
17:25:22 <psygnisfive> http://www.doubleviking.com/videos/page0.html/james-earl-jones-recites-alphabet-10343.html
17:25:25 <psygnisfive> N
17:25:26 <psygnisfive> O
17:25:28 <psygnisfive> P
17:25:34 <psygnisfive> Q
17:25:35 <psygnisfive> R
17:25:37 <psygnisfive> S ::smirk::
17:26:43 <oklopol> ;;;)
17:26:57 <ehird> ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;)
17:32:54 <oklopol> imsotrd
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17:34:59 <ais523> +hello thutubot
17:35:02 <ais523> +hello
17:35:02 <thutubot> Hello, ais523!
17:35:13 <ais523> ++hello
17:35:31 <slereah> HELLO AIS 523
17:35:46 <ais523> hmm... I thought I'd bring Thutubot in here
17:35:49 <ais523> because fungot is missing
17:35:59 <ais523> and it seems wrong to have no esolangbots in the channel
17:36:06 <ais523> we have optbot, but it doesn't interpret esolangs AFAIK
17:36:06 <optbot> ais523: right
17:36:13 <oklopol> :)
17:36:27 <ais523> +ul (:aSS):aSS
17:36:28 <thutubot> (:aSS):aSS
17:36:32 <ais523> unfortunately it only does Underload
17:36:42 <ais523> and has no protection against being crashed by invalid input, etc
17:36:56 <ais523> infiniloops kill it too
17:37:33 <oklopol> i wanna make a botter
17:37:42 <ais523> what would it do?
17:38:07 <oklopol> probably interpret esolangs, but i was thinking making a bot *in* an esolang, it seems to be the trend
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17:38:20 <oklopol> like.. unlambda?
17:41:54 <ais523> why not
17:42:00 <ais523> thutubot's written in an esolang
17:42:16 * ais523 ponders the concept of a Thutu quine
17:42:23 <ais523> probably wouldn't be too hard if it was a one-liner
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18:19:12 <ehird> I WOULD LIKE A PROGRAMMING LANGUAGE/LIBRARY CHANNEL
18:19:12 <ehird> THAT
18:19:13 <ehird> DOESN'T
18:19:14 <ehird> THINK
18:19:14 <ehird> I'M
18:19:15 <ehird> A
18:19:15 <ehird> RETARD
18:19:18 <ehird> AND
18:19:20 <ehird> NEED
18:19:22 <ehird> ED
18:19:24 <ehird> TO
18:19:26 <ehird> BE
18:19:28 <ehird> ASKED
18:19:30 <ehird> THE
18:19:32 <ehird> MOST
18:19:34 <ehird> TRIVIA
18:19:38 <ehird> L
18:19:40 <ais523> ehird: stop spamming
18:19:40 <ehird> SHIT
18:20:06 <ehird> PLEASE!!!
18:20:10 <ehird> ais523: ffffffffff
18:20:41 <fizzie> Fungot's missing because it had again gotten hung up when someone mentioned its name. There is a bug in either the babble-generation code or the code to build the babbling model, but it pretty rarely triggers.
18:21:10 -!- fungot has joined.
18:21:29 <ehird> fungot: trigger fnord
18:21:29 <fungot> ehird: tell sarahbot about unicode
18:21:33 <ehird> fungot: no
18:21:33 <fungot> ehird: yeah i've tried with the mandelbrot code is that the shootout is silly in general, your stream permute? if the graphics are 2d, and bf works in bf, as well
18:21:59 <fizzie> "your stream permute?"
18:22:01 <fizzie> Heh.
18:22:29 <fizzie> Should've removed some of those silly commands from the state file while I was at it
18:22:32 <fizzie> ^show
18:22:32 <fungot> echo reverb rev bf rot13 hi rev2 fib wc aaa enctst copy badrot13 chtopic top topiccode compat_cat trulyawfulrot13 rot26 me echochohoo lolercakes echo_cho_ho_o baddoubles ul
18:23:17 <Asztal> ^lolercakes
18:23:17 <fungot> .
18:23:40 <fizzie> I don't think most of them make any sort of sense.
18:23:53 <ais523> ^echochohoo echochohoo
18:23:54 <fungot> echochohoochochohoohochohooochohoochohoohohooohoohooooo
18:24:01 <ais523> ^echo_cho_ho_o echochohoo
18:24:01 <fungot> echochohoo chochohoo hochohoo ochohoo chohoo hohoo ohoo hoo oo o
18:24:12 <ais523> I implemented the second one to annoy CO2Games
18:24:19 <ais523> as he'd spent about an hour trying to get it to work
18:24:21 <fizzie> Okay, those two are very useful.
18:24:22 <ais523> after seeing my original
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18:27:50 <fizzie> ^code 002aaa***99++p
18:27:52 <fizzie> ^show
18:27:52 <fungot> echo reverb rev bf rot13 hi rev2 fib wc
18:27:58 <fizzie> There, a lot shorter list.
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18:35:10 <Asztal> is the bot itself written in befunge, or does it just have befunge capabilities?
18:35:20 <ais523> Asztal: fungot is written in Befunge
18:35:21 <fungot> ais523: no he is just implementing it. it's pretty difficult to write
18:35:27 <ais523> just like thutubot is written in Thutu
18:38:12 <Asztal> ^code ay.by.
18:38:24 <Asztal> :(
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18:41:50 <fizzie> The ^code is so abusable that I had to limit it.
18:42:20 <ais523> well, yes
18:42:36 <ais523> that's like giving root shells to everyone who visits your website
18:42:40 <ais523> presumably it only works for you
18:42:42 <fizzie> Asztal: If you haven't seen the link to sources yet, it's at http://zem.fi/~fis/fungot.b98.txt and the helpful diagram about how it works is at http://www.cis.hut.fi/htkallas/fungotsmall.png
18:42:42 <fungot> fizzie: or even for me. :p
18:42:52 <Asztal> yet you allow p? (or does it change the storage offset, perhaps?)
18:42:53 <ais523> anyway, that did that code you wrote do?
18:43:30 <fizzie> Asztal: It allows anything, since it's only usable by me. It's mainly there so I can patch things without shutting the whole bot down.
18:44:20 <fizzie> ais523: It stuck a 0 into fungespace at row 2018, column 0, which is where the 10th ^def command name would be; the zero there works as a command list terminator.
18:44:36 <ais523> ah, ok
18:44:44 <ais523> so by defining a command we could get all the old commands back?
18:45:06 <fizzie> No, ^def adds a zero after the command it defines.
18:45:26 <fizzie> But I could stick a letter there to get them back, I guess.
18:45:40 <fizzie> ^code "x"02aaa***99++p
18:45:41 <fizzie> ^show
18:45:41 <fungot> echo reverb rev bf rot13 hi rev2 fib wc xaa enctst copy badrot13 chtopic top topiccode compat_cat trulyawfulrot13 rot26 me echochohoo lolercakes echo_cho_ho_o baddoubles ul
18:46:01 <fizzie> Didn't remember the correct first letter, so used 'x'.
18:46:17 <ais523> most of them are pointless anyway
18:46:39 <Deewiant> hey, it's Asztal
18:46:43 <Deewiant> what happened to http://svn.asztal.net/befunge98/ ?
18:46:53 <Asztal> that was a slight accident
18:47:13 <Deewiant> meaning what?
18:47:14 <fizzie> I should probably add a ^reload-state or something, since it already has a ^reload command which reloads the code. Then I could remove single commands from the state file and reload that.
18:47:27 <Deewiant> you broke your server or lost your code? :-P
18:47:32 <Asztal> the "delete repository" button on my web host's control panel really should confirm the deletion :(
18:47:40 <Deewiant> meh
18:47:52 <Deewiant> no backups?
18:47:54 <Asztal> also, my mouse tends to scroll sometimes when I middle-click
18:47:59 <Deewiant> I've got r25
18:48:04 <Asztal> I've gone one here
18:49:48 <Deewiant> I've also got something from january which has no .svn though
18:50:11 <Asztal> then you quite possibly have more copies than I do :D
18:50:18 <Asztal> I've never actually used SVN for anything more complex than update/commit, so I don't know if committing the old stuff to this empty repository will work
18:51:06 <Deewiant> if you would have used a DVCS I'd have the whole history and you'd've lost nothing since 1 month ago :-/
18:51:22 <Deewiant> and neither do I, I haven't used SVN much
18:56:44 <Deewiant> Asztal: iki.fi/deewiant/befunge98.zip has what I had, feel free to grab it and sort out what you can
18:57:32 <Asztal> OK (I'm supposed to have weekly snapshots of all of my files, svn included, though, I'm looking at them now)
18:59:26 <Deewiant> let me know when you got it or if you're not going to, so I can remove the .zip from taking up space on my server :-P
19:01:17 <ehird> who is Asztal anyhook
19:02:30 <Deewiant> ehird: http://iki.fi/deewiant/befunge/mycology-comparison.html#interpreters-tested - scroll down to befunge98
19:02:35 <Deewiant> alternatively, http://www.asztal.net/
19:03:42 <ehird> Cool.
19:05:22 <ais523> <Deewiant> A bunch of time has been spent optimizing cfunge—to the point that his acquaintances poke fun at him about micro-optimization—and as a result it is certainly among the fastest interpreters out there.
19:05:25 <ais523> heh
19:05:46 <Deewiant> well, I had to say /something/ :-P
19:06:09 <ehird> Deewiant: i recommend you add more rage and CAPSLOCK
19:06:15 <ehird> then i shall officially approve that :|
19:06:16 <Deewiant> nah
19:06:20 <ehird> :D
19:06:21 <Asztal> ah, there we go... it doesn't help that the directory names in ~/svn aren't necessarily related to the HTTP path used to get to it :)
19:06:35 <ehird> Asztal: how do I shot URI->file mapping
19:06:37 <Asztal> also, now that it's there, nobody look at the horrible code please
19:06:48 <Deewiant> yay
19:06:52 <Deewiant> everybody look at http://svn.asztal.net/befunge98/
19:07:17 <Deewiant> Asztal: also, I note you haven't updated since I posted the new results, what's up with that? ;-)
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19:07:35 <Asztal> Deewiant: it's university time :)
19:07:41 <ais523> <Deewiant> the “2k6 leaves 2 sixes on stack” problem
19:07:50 <ais523> hmm... what is 2k6 meant to do?
19:07:55 <Deewiant> leave 3 sixes on stack
19:07:58 <Asztal> I'm certainly going to try and make k work, even though I hate it
19:08:01 <Deewiant> sucks doesn't it
19:08:10 <ais523> ah, because the cursor ends up on the 6 afterwards
19:08:13 <ais523> I remember that now
19:08:14 <Deewiant> yep
19:08:24 <Asztal> it does?
19:08:28 <Deewiant> yeah
19:08:30 <Asztal> well, that might explain some things...
19:08:31 <Deewiant> evidently
19:08:33 <Asztal> :D
19:08:51 <ais523> we've had hours of fun arguing about k in this channel
19:08:54 <Asztal> I assumed it was like s
19:08:58 <Deewiant> as did I
19:10:01 -!- kar8nga has left (?).
19:11:18 <ais523> Deewiant: hmm... I wonder if it's worth adding C-INTERCAL to your Mycology results page
19:11:25 <ais523> probably not as it's basically cfunge
19:11:29 <ais523> just with a different front-end
19:18:01 <oklopol> god i hate documenting my code
19:18:10 <oklopol> i hate it so much
19:18:14 <oklopol> i want a secretary
19:27:03 <ais523> oklopol: for class?
19:27:10 <oklopol> yes
19:27:17 <ais523> ^show
19:27:17 <fungot> echo reverb rev bf rot13 hi rev2 fib wc xaa enctst copy badrot13 chtopic top topiccode compat_cat trulyawfulrot13 rot26 me echochohoo lolercakes echo_cho_ho_o baddoubles ul
19:27:35 <ais523> wow, I didn't realise /clear worked
19:27:36 <oklopol> i made a fileuploadbin for some course i took half a year ago
19:27:41 <ais523> I must do that more often
19:27:47 <oklopol> dl is near...
19:27:59 <ehird> ais523: why?
19:28:13 <ais523> it's so nice seeing a completely empty IRC channel
19:28:20 <ais523> empty of comments and metadata, that is
19:28:51 <oklopol> the problem with /clear is, every time you do it, someone says something half a second before you do it, and you have to open the logs
19:29:10 <oklopol> well okay, that never happened to me, but i imagine it *could* happen
19:29:40 * ais523 feels like pasting a really excellent Underload program into the channel and having Thutubot run it
19:29:50 <ais523> I'm not sure if I have any really excellent programs offhand that aren't infiniloops, though
19:30:55 <oklopol> http://www.scenegroup.com/ <<< does anyone know who this girl is, by any chance?
19:31:07 <ais523> well, presumably someone does
19:31:09 <ais523> why do you ask?
19:31:24 <oklopol> i've done some work for ggl, and that seems to be like the most common spam page in the web
19:31:33 <oklopol> i call her spam girl
19:31:41 <oklopol> it has been my dream for a while to meet her
19:31:56 <oklopol> and, you know, spam her
19:32:05 <oklopol> if you know what i mean ;;;)
19:32:11 <oklopol> ...
19:32:34 <oklopol> but yeah, she's famous to me, so i'm somewhat curious as to who she is
19:33:48 <ehird> its just the same company
19:33:57 <ehird> using like 3 placeholder iamges
19:34:39 <ais523> +ul ()()(~:()~()~(((a(:^)*a(!!!!!!!!!^)~*^):^))~^a(((*)~a*^(((((1)S!^)((1)S!!^))~^)(!(((2)S!^)((2)S!!^))~^)(!!(((3)S!^)((3)S!!^))~^)(!!!(((4)S!^)((4)S!!^))~^)(!!!!(((5)S!^)((5)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!(((6)S!^)((6)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!(((7)S!^)((7)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!!(((8)S!^)((8)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!!!(((9)S!^)((9)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!!!!(((0)S!^)(!^))~^((a(:^)*a(!!!!!!!!!^)~*^):^)))~a(:^)*~^):^)~*^^^!^!^!^!^!^!!!!!!!!!!!!()~((0)S!)~^^(:)~*(*)*( )S~):*:*:*:*:*:*:*^
19:34:44 <oklopol> that girl is used many times more than any other image.
19:34:47 <ais523> this could take a while, I suspect
19:34:54 <ais523> as Thutu isn't particularly efficient
19:35:01 <oklopol> and it doesn't matter why she's on every spam page, just that she is.
19:36:26 <ais523> yep, Thutubot's using 90% of my CPU power atm
19:36:29 <ais523> trying to figure that one out
19:36:54 <ais523> anyone want to try to figure out what it does before Thutubot comes up with the answer?
19:36:59 <ehird> no
19:39:36 <oklopol> :)
19:39:46 <ais523> oklopol: any idea?
19:39:50 <oklopol> oh no.
19:40:03 <oklopol> i don't even remember the underload commands tbh
19:40:11 <oklopol> well, most of them
19:40:14 <oklopol> but not all
19:42:33 <ais523> ah, pity
19:42:42 * ais523 somehow suspects that Thutubot wouldn't get finished this year
19:42:47 <ais523> due to the inefficient way I wrote the loop
19:44:01 <oklopol> i wish i had the time to do interesting things.
19:52:48 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | heh.
20:04:53 -!- asiekierka has joined.
20:04:55 <asiekierka> hello
20:07:33 <ehird> hi
20:08:02 <asiekierka> I was thinking about esolangs
20:08:05 <asiekierka> And i thought about Agnes.
20:08:09 <asiekierka> Actually GeNtle ESolang
20:08:16 <asiekierka> :)
20:10:02 <AnMaster> ais523, wtf was that code above
20:10:31 <asiekierka> and about VAPLE
20:10:34 <ais523> AnMaster: Underload
20:10:37 <asiekierka> Very Arrogant Programming LanguagE
20:10:39 <ais523> Thutubot is still trying to run it
20:10:42 <asiekierka> ais523: Could you repeat it, please?
20:10:43 <ais523> (Thutubot isn't very efficient...)
20:10:48 <AnMaster> ais523, use a better interpreter?
20:10:50 <ais523> ()()(~:()~()~(((a(:^)*a(!!!!!!!!!^)~*^):^))~^a(((*)~a*^(((((1)S!^)((1)S!!^))~^)(!(((2)S!^)((2)S!!^))~^)(!!(((3)S!^)((3)S!!^))~^)(!!!(((4)S!^)((4)S!!^))~^)(!!!!(((5)S!^)((5)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!(((6)S!^)((6)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!(((7)S!^)((7)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!!(((8)S!^)((8)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!!!(((9)S!^)((9)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!!!!(((0)S!^)(!^))~^((a(:^)*a(!!!!!!!!!^)~*^):^)))~a(:^)*~^):^)~*^^^!^!^!^!^!^!!!!!!!!!!!!()~((0)S!)~^^(:)~*(*)*( )S~):*:*:*:*:*:*:*^
20:10:53 <ais523> AnMaster: I have one
20:10:59 <asiekierka> holy crap
20:10:59 <ais523> I just wanted to give Thutubot something interesting
20:11:01 <AnMaster> and what language is Thutubot coded in?
20:11:04 <asiekierka> and what does TTHAATT do
20:11:04 <ais523> Thutu
20:11:12 <AnMaster> ais523, oh an esolang
20:11:17 <AnMaster> explains why it is so slow hehe
20:11:30 <asiekierka> fungot is faster, mainly because it limits cycles
20:11:30 <fungot> asiekierka: ( finite 0 ( freereference-exp yourself)) returns.
20:11:36 <asiekierka> wwhat?
20:12:04 <AnMaster> ais523, that looks like some LISP code with bad space placement to me
20:12:16 <ais523> AnMaster: what, the fungot code?
20:12:17 <fungot> ais523: oh no! now he will be able to fnord files :)
20:13:22 <asiekierka> I'm wondering what language should i make an ircbot in
20:13:38 <asiekierka> I could make one in underload, but no, you can't
20:13:39 <asiekierka> :P
20:13:51 <asiekierka> Except if you issue commands to him in church numerals
20:14:03 <AnMaster> ais523, the code he said
20:14:06 <AnMaster> <fungot> asiekierka: ( finite 0 ( freereference-exp yourself)) returns.
20:14:06 <fungot> AnMaster: i could so easily turn that into something more intelligible
20:14:20 <AnMaster> fungot, well do that then!
20:14:20 <fungot> AnMaster: btw, the fnord
20:14:31 <AnMaster> fungot, was that an insult
20:14:31 <fungot> AnMaster: i might try to implement a fnord that presents itself as something, but that
20:15:08 <AnMaster> huh
20:15:38 <ais523> AnMaster: Thutu programs tend to be a computational order slower than most other langs
20:15:49 <ais523> due to needing to store lots of massive strings in memory and doing regexen on them
20:16:57 <AnMaster> wtf was that beep
20:17:08 * AnMaster can't figure out what made the pc speaker beep
20:17:10 <ais523> wasn't me, I don't think
20:17:17 <AnMaster> ais523, no not irc
20:17:27 <AnMaster> I just flash window for that
20:17:32 <asiekierka> Is there an esolang that i should make an ircbot in?
20:17:42 <ais523> Thutu, definitely, it's great at that
20:17:54 <ais523> although it's not so good at interpreting Underload
20:17:56 <AnMaster> asiekierka, you *could* make one in Thutu or Befunge-98
20:17:58 <Asztal> perl
20:17:59 <AnMaster> both have been done
20:18:07 <AnMaster> asiekierka, what about INTERCAL?
20:18:11 <AnMaster> that would be fun
20:18:12 <asiekierka> Thutu was done
20:18:15 <AnMaster> or has it been done too?
20:18:16 <asiekierka> Befunge-98 was done
20:18:19 <asiekierka> Intercal!?
20:18:23 <AnMaster> asiekierka, yes?
20:18:34 <AnMaster> has it been done ais523 ?
20:18:39 <ais523> AnMaster: I don't think so
20:18:44 <ais523> INTERCAL is lousy at string-handling
20:18:47 <AnMaster> asiekierka, there you are then
20:18:48 <ais523> it's one of its main weaknesses
20:19:00 <asiekierka> If i did understand intercal very good...
20:19:04 <AnMaster> asiekierka, you probably want to connect STDIN and STDOUT to netcat or such
20:19:05 <asiekierka> also, string-handling is essential
20:19:20 <AnMaster> asiekierka, what about Asztal suggestion then?
20:19:26 <asiekierka> windows doesn't have netcat
20:19:28 <AnMaster> good string handling
20:19:34 <asiekierka> Perl is not an esolang
20:19:34 <asiekierka> though
20:19:39 <AnMaster> asiekierka, yes it is
20:19:42 <asiekierka> ok
20:19:45 <AnMaster> check entry on the esolang wiki
20:19:45 <AnMaster> :P
20:19:46 <asiekierka> but not an _obscure_ esolang
20:19:46 <ais523> asiekierka: INTERCAL can do string-handling but is really bad at it, deliberately bad I think sometimes
20:19:50 <AnMaster> asiekierka, heh ok
20:20:07 <AnMaster> asiekierka, also befunge isn't very good at handling strings either
20:20:21 <AnMaster> fizzie, does fungot use STRN?
20:20:21 <fungot> AnMaster: hence the all caps a second ago
20:20:24 <asiekierka> Anything that can't do a cell-based system isn't very good
20:20:26 <AnMaster> um
20:20:28 <AnMaster> that made sense
20:20:30 <AnMaster> I used all caps
20:20:31 <asiekierka> But Befungey can
20:20:32 <AnMaster> for STRN
20:20:42 <AnMaster> Befungey?
20:20:43 <fizzie> AnMaster: Yes.
20:20:46 <AnMaster> ah ok
20:20:52 <AnMaster> then I retract that statement
20:20:56 <fizzie> AnMaster: Since string-handling is such a pain otherwise. :)
20:20:57 <AnMaster> you can get string handling using STRN
20:21:10 <AnMaster> fizzie, JSTR too?
20:21:24 <fizzie> AnMaster: Not that. What did it do again?
20:21:37 <asiekierka> so, well
20:21:40 <asiekierka> what else?
20:21:48 <asiekierka> Perl, BF, Underload, Befunge, INTERCAL, Thutu are out
20:21:54 <asiekierka> maybe... Piet?
20:21:57 <AnMaster> fizzie, changes two STRN instructions to do load/store from funge-space in a more consistent (with other funge commands) way
20:22:07 <AnMaster> asiekierka, what about Trefunge?
20:22:09 <AnMaster> or even better
20:22:11 <AnMaster> Unefunge
20:22:48 <AnMaster> asiekierka, there is always brainfuck
20:22:55 <asiekierka> I said BF is out
20:23:02 <asiekierka> And is there an article on Unefunge?
20:23:17 <AnMaster> asiekierka, it is like single-dimension befunge
20:23:20 <AnMaster> so just one line
20:23:24 <AnMaster> trefunge is 3D variant
20:24:18 <AnMaster> while you could code befungish in trefunge, you couldn't code that way in unefunge
20:25:26 <asiekierka> Fugneoids are out.
20:25:30 <asiekierka> I should make Minifunge once
20:25:40 <asiekierka> oh well
20:25:41 <asiekierka> not
20:25:42 <fizzie> AnMaster: JSTR seems to me like it'd just complicate things, since it seems to require specifying string lengths explicitly.
20:25:43 <asiekierka> Anything else
20:26:10 <AnMaster> fizzie, hm ok
20:26:21 <AnMaster> asiekierka, hm
20:26:30 <AnMaster> asiekierka, /// ?
20:26:39 <AnMaster> wiki page is slashes
20:26:40 <AnMaster> however
20:26:43 <AnMaster> wait won't work
20:26:45 <AnMaster> no input
20:27:10 <AnMaster> asiekierka, I know!
20:27:11 <AnMaster> http://shakespearelang.sourceforge.net/
20:27:12 <AnMaster> :D
20:27:16 <ehird> oklocod:
20:27:17 <ehird> [[* oklopol had the nick "oklocod" when e registered on #really-a-cow;
20:27:18 <ehird>   however, e did not give enough information to be sufficient to contact
20:27:18 <ehird>   em reliably. E seems to normally use nicks starting with "oklo" on
20:27:18 <ehird>   irc://irc.freenode.net.
20:27:19 <ehird> ]]
20:27:21 <asiekierka> I didn't read Shakespeare YET
20:27:26 <ehird> you're noted specially in an agoran report!
20:27:26 <ehird> aww
20:27:34 <AnMaster> asiekierka, and?
20:27:44 <asiekierka> And this
20:27:53 <ais523> the problem is trying to notify people about contact details when you don't know them yourself
20:27:54 <AnMaster> ?
20:28:03 <asiekierka> The wikientry is "Slashes"
20:28:11 <AnMaster> asiekierka, yes I know that
20:28:16 <AnMaster> asiekierka, the language name is /// though
20:28:31 -!- Hiato has joined.
20:28:37 <AnMaster> asiekierka, if you had asked for the wiki page I would have said slashes
20:28:45 <AnMaster> however I prefer using the correct language name
20:29:04 -!- atrapado has joined.
20:29:34 <asiekierka> yeah
20:29:35 <asiekierka> i see
20:29:52 <AnMaster> asiekierka, still I think SPL is a good idea
20:30:02 <oklopol> :)
20:30:04 <oklopol> @ ehird
20:30:04 <AnMaster> asiekierka, or what about Taxi?
20:30:12 * oklopol is sooo famous
20:30:17 <ehird> oklopol: you might wanna subscribe to the lists
20:30:17 <ehird> :P
20:30:22 <asiekierka> Taxi may be good
20:30:31 <AnMaster> asiekierka, not very interesting though really
20:30:43 <AnMaster> asiekierka, some functional language maybe?
20:31:15 <asiekierka> an esolang
20:31:19 <asiekierka> see
20:31:28 <asiekierka> a Cbot isn't just as interesting as a Taxibot
20:31:42 <AnMaster> asiekierka, there are functional esolangs
20:31:48 <AnMaster> underload you said no too
20:31:53 <AnMaster> but what about unlambda?
20:31:55 <oklopol> ehird: i might :)
20:31:58 <asiekierka> Because it has no input, underload
20:31:59 <ehird> asiekierka doesn't know what functional means, AnMaster
20:32:01 <ehird> i imagine
20:32:03 <AnMaster> ag
20:32:08 <asiekierka> unlambda, i don't know the lambda calculus
20:32:08 <oklopol> ehird: if you link fazzzzt, i might do it just now
20:32:20 <ehird> oklopol: needs a bit of copy pasting :(
20:32:24 <AnMaster> ehird, or does unlamda lack input?
20:32:25 <ehird> oklopol: http://agoranomic.org/ under how to play, subscribe to all of the lists
20:32:26 <oklopol> dang.
20:32:28 <ehird> oklopol: but
20:32:34 <ehird> oklopol: you only need official, business and discussion
20:32:35 <ehird> for now
20:32:39 <ehird> you can do backup whenever
20:32:41 <ehird> i did
20:32:50 <oklopol> do i actually have to do something? i wanna start things slow.
20:32:56 <AnMaster> ehird, and I know what functional means, however I find it hard keeping those under* un* languages apart
20:33:00 <AnMaster> they have quite similiar names
20:33:01 <oklopol> i mean, after subscribing
20:33:06 <AnMaster> similar
20:33:06 <ehird> oklopol: nope
20:33:14 <ehird> oklopol: note that you'll get like 5-20 emails a day
20:33:15 <oklopol> btw, another way to fill our server with crap
20:33:15 <AnMaster> ehird, so what did you mean exactly?
20:33:18 <oklopol> www.vjn.fi/upload
20:33:19 <asiekierka> i don't
20:33:23 <ehird> oklopol: if you can might wanna set up a filter to put it all in an 'agora' folder
20:33:25 <asiekierka> oh wait
20:33:25 <asiekierka> nothing
20:33:27 <oklopol> also that's quite simple to crack, so feel free
20:33:47 <AnMaster> asiekierka, Malbolge?
20:33:53 <AnMaster> asiekierka, it got input and output
20:33:56 <oklopol> (but tell me so i can fix everything, since i submitted that piece of crap as a course project :P)
20:34:21 <asiekierka> aaaagh, malbolge? do you want my brain to explode!?
20:34:31 <AnMaster> asiekierka, well Taxi maybe
20:34:42 <AnMaster> asiekierka, http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Language_list#S
20:34:45 <AnMaster> err
20:34:47 <AnMaster> asiekierka, http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Language_list
20:34:49 <AnMaster> I meant
20:35:10 <AnMaster> no idea how uptodate that is
20:35:17 <AnMaster> I guess not
20:35:57 <ehird> oklopol: but yea, definitely need to subscribe to official, discussion and business
20:35:58 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)).
20:35:59 <ehird> the rest can wait
20:36:03 <ehird> as theyre only used when the lists are down
20:36:09 <ehird> which was last a few months ago
20:36:20 <ehird> apart from that
20:36:21 -!- asiekierka has joined.
20:36:22 <ais523> or when scamming a new public forum
20:36:24 <ehird> yo don't have to do anything
20:36:25 <ais523> which was last done this week
20:36:27 <ehird> unless you explicitly opt in
20:36:28 <asiekierka> I want a 2D language, so i can check 2d languages
20:36:30 <ehird> ais523: :-P
20:36:33 <ais523> asiekierka: BackFlip?
20:36:39 <asiekierka> let me check
20:36:39 <ais523> that definitely isn't a funge
20:36:41 <asiekierka> everything
20:36:44 <ais523> but is rubbish for a bot
20:36:46 <ehird> oklopol: if you get bored of just reading and wanna do stuff, the fully annotated ruleset is at http://agora.qoid.us/current_flr.txt
20:36:55 <asiekierka> 64 articles to check
20:37:22 <oklopol> ehird: and will you tell me how to make all the agoran stuff go to a specific folder on gmail? i have no idea how to do that.
20:37:28 <ehird> oklopol: OK
20:37:30 <ehird> i'll tell you via /msg
20:38:14 <AnMaster> asiekierka, Taxi with input and output connected to some program to handle network connection sounds good
20:38:25 <asiekierka> yeah
20:38:32 <AnMaster> asiekierka, such as netcat
20:38:32 <ais523> AnMaster: thutubot is just loop-connected to the IRC channel using netcat and a fifo
20:38:37 <AnMaster> and netcat exists for cygwin
20:38:44 <AnMaster> so no excuse
20:38:50 <ais523> you could even do it with telnet
20:38:56 <ais523> which is on Windows by default IIRC
20:39:11 <ais523> on the other hand, Windows doesn't have FIFOs, so the plumbing might be harder
20:39:22 <AnMaster> ais523, not using windows telnet I suspect
20:39:23 <AnMaster> anyway
20:39:28 <AnMaster> just use cygwin
20:39:40 <AnMaster> or Linux, *BSD or whatever
20:39:59 <AnMaster> (and to ehird, OS X can be considered a *BSD)
20:40:10 -!- Hiato has quit ("Leaving.").
20:40:19 <ehird> AnMaster: Congrats, now asiekierka has you down as their personal tech support for installing cygwin...
20:40:33 <AnMaster> ehird, no? why would I do that
20:40:40 <AnMaster> My answer would be RTFM
20:40:41 <AnMaster> :P
20:40:48 <ehird> AnMaster: It's hard to ignore asiekierka ...
20:40:57 <AnMaster> ehird, since I haven't used cygwin for over 4 years
20:41:05 <AnMaster> I would be totally unable to help anyway
20:41:06 <AnMaster> afk food
20:41:41 <asiekierka> no
20:41:45 <asiekierka> i installed cygwin once
20:41:46 <asiekierka> so no problem
20:41:47 <asiekierka> :D
20:42:08 <asiekierka> also, netcat outputs to...?
20:42:27 <ais523> stdout and stdin
20:42:33 <ais523> you can pipe programs together
20:42:40 <ais523> the problem is connecting the pipe around in a loop
20:42:46 <ais523> from Taxi to nc and back to Taxi
20:42:50 <asiekierka> nc?
20:42:52 <ais523> on Unix, you can use a FIFO for that
20:42:54 <ais523> nc = netcat
20:42:55 <asiekierka> oh
20:42:56 <asiekierka> yeah
20:43:04 <ais523> but I don't know how it works on Windows, if at all
20:43:05 <asiekierka> But netcat sends/receives the data to/from...?
20:43:14 <ais523> nc irc.freenode.net 6667
20:43:24 <ais523> will send from its stdin to Freenode, and from Freenode to its stdout
20:44:04 <asiekierka> mhm
20:44:15 <asiekierka> So you mean, i must raw-write the IRC protocol?
20:44:19 <asiekierka> write it in code
20:44:51 <asiekierka> Also, Befunge would be awesome, if it only allowed to have separate files
20:44:51 <asiekierka> like
20:44:58 <asiekierka> main.b93
20:44:59 <asiekierka> connect.b93
20:45:02 <asiekierka> protocol.b93
20:45:03 <asiekierka> etc
20:45:03 <asiekierka> etc
20:45:05 <ais523> asiekierka: it does, you can load them with O
20:45:10 <ais523> umm... o
20:45:15 <ais523> or possibly i
20:45:21 <asiekierka> in bef-93?
20:45:22 <ais523> grr... I keep forgetting Befunge commands
20:45:25 <ais523> no, bef-98
20:45:42 <asiekierka> I'd like to use -98
20:45:47 <asiekierka> but what are the differences
20:46:48 <ais523> asiekierka: b98 has more commands
20:46:54 <ais523> an unlimited-size playfield
20:46:57 <asiekierka> yeah
20:46:58 <asiekierka> i know this
20:46:59 <ais523> and spaces work differnetly in strings
20:47:02 <asiekierka> Oh
20:47:02 <ais523> that's about it
20:47:04 <asiekierka> explain this
20:47:06 <asiekierka> the spaces
20:47:17 <ais523> "abc  def" has two spaces in the middle in b-93
20:47:21 <ais523> but one space in the middle in b-98
20:47:27 <ais523> to prevent def" "abc
20:47:33 <ais523> having an infinite number of spaces in the middle
20:48:25 <asiekierka> oh
20:48:29 <asiekierka> ok
20:48:41 <asiekierka> So i will use -98 now
20:48:44 <asiekierka> at this point
20:48:46 <asiekierka> or rather
20:48:50 <asiekierka> 90% -93, 10% -98
20:48:52 <asiekierka> but wait
20:48:57 <asiekierka> i broke my rules
20:49:01 <asiekierka> there can't be 2 fungots
20:49:01 <fungot> asiekierka: i get to wait for processes? files? sockets?
20:49:03 <asiekierka> right?
20:49:08 <asiekierka> right?
20:49:18 <Deewiant> ais523: it's mnemonic: i for input, o for output
20:49:50 <Deewiant> asiekierka: and, another difference is dividing by zero
20:49:59 <Deewiant> gives zero in befunge-98, asks the user in befunge-93
20:50:20 <asiekierka> yayz
20:50:21 <asiekierka> But wait
20:50:26 <asiekierka> can there be 2 fungots?
20:50:26 <fungot> asiekierka: was that scheme-only compilers you were mentioning
20:50:42 <Deewiant> why not?
20:50:48 <asiekierka> i wasn't mentioning any scheme-only compilers! right?
20:50:51 <asiekierka> also
20:50:56 <asiekierka> great
20:51:16 <asiekierka> i stopped noticing fungotexts from normal chat
20:51:16 <ais523> optbot: are you a fungot?
20:51:16 <fungot> asiekierka: but then how do you use
20:51:16 <fungot> ais523: code objects are treated as such!! do you have lying around?
20:51:16 <optbot> ais523: Indeed.
20:51:31 <asiekierka> I remember when i did a trick with CO2Bot
20:51:41 <asiekierka> to make fungot chat with optbot
20:51:41 <fungot> asiekierka: your brain is fucked" xd family guy is so right, i understand.
20:51:42 <optbot> asiekierka: TYPEINFO IN PLOF!!!!!
20:51:52 <asiekierka> Wait
20:51:55 <asiekierka> is thutubot working?
20:52:06 <ais523> it's still busily trying to count to 64
20:52:17 <asiekierka> AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGGGGGGGGGGGGGHHH
20:52:20 <asiekierka> didn't it CRASH?
20:52:23 <asiekierka> or... something?
20:52:24 <ais523> nope
20:52:30 <ais523> it's at 95% CPU usage atm
20:52:37 <asiekierka> Augh
20:52:45 <ais523> what you're observing there is O(n^6) time or something silly like that
20:52:46 <ais523> I never bothered to calculate it exactly
20:52:50 <asiekierka> Hmm
20:53:36 <ais523> maybe I should bring in a second thutubot
20:53:55 <ais523> also
20:53:58 <ais523> ^echochohoo optbot
20:53:59 <fungot> optbotptbottbotbotott
20:53:59 <optbot> ais523: probably best to move onto variables now
20:53:59 <optbot> fungot: in any case, unsigned char value; should work
20:54:00 <fungot> optbot: so does foxfire chat in here.
20:54:00 <optbot> fungot: http://www.www.www/
20:54:01 <fungot> optbot: but you said ' a verifier for a fnord
20:54:01 <optbot> fungot: cya Keymaker
20:54:01 <fungot> optbot: high five fnord :p
20:54:02 <optbot> fungot: at least not to me... done lots of thinking on different ways to specify infinite lists
20:54:02 <fungot> optbot: do you have
20:54:03 <optbot> fungot: sorry
20:54:15 <asiekierka> oh
20:54:17 <asiekierka> right
20:54:35 <asiekierka> ^show
20:54:36 <fungot> echo reverb rev bf rot13 hi rev2 fib wc xaa enctst copy badrot13 chtopic top topiccode compat_cat trulyawfulrot13 rot26 me echochohoo lolercakes echo_cho_ho_o baddoubles ul
20:54:46 <asiekierka> ^trulyawfulrot13 optbot: hi
20:54:46 <ais523> most of those are CO2Games spam, by the way
20:54:47 <fungot> optbot: hi
20:54:47 <optbot> asiekierka: Step 3. Go to step 5.
20:54:47 <optbot> fungot: I should make a small list of lambda expressions to short combinators.
20:54:59 <asiekierka> wait
20:55:04 <asiekierka> did someone banathon it
20:55:19 <ais523> in the end fizzie banned CO2Games from fungot, IIRC
20:55:19 <fungot> ais523: still testing it with an address for which addr n 0?
20:55:28 <oklopol> ototototototo
20:56:18 <ais523> ojojojojojojo
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21:17:26 -!- jix has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep").
21:18:33 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
21:26:40 <AnMaster> back
21:27:49 <AnMaster> <ais523> to prevent def" "abc
21:27:49 <AnMaster> <ais523> having an infinite number of spaces in the middle
21:27:50 <AnMaster> huh?
21:27:57 <ais523> AnMaster: Befunge wraps
21:28:05 <ais523> in a bignum Funge
21:28:06 <AnMaster> yes I know that
21:28:11 <ais523> then if you weren't using SGML spaces
21:28:18 <ais523> you could put an infinite number of spaces in a string
21:28:24 <AnMaster> um
21:28:40 * AnMaster considers this
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21:28:55 <AnMaster> ais523, first: is that the whole program?
21:29:05 <ais523> no, it isn't
21:29:15 <ais523> ;def";"abc
21:29:19 <AnMaster> then it will push 0xd, 0xe, 0xf, space, 0xa, 0xb, 0xc and repeat
21:29:20 <ais523> if you want a complete program as an example
21:29:25 <ais523> AnMaster: yes, I know
21:29:33 <ais523> I'm trying to explain why b98 uses SGML spaces
21:29:42 <ais523> if it didn't you'd get an infinite number of spaces
21:29:52 <AnMaster> ais523, I still don't see how it cause infinite spaces
21:30:06 <AnMaster> ais523, since string mode wrap at program edge
21:30:14 <AnMaster> as given by y
21:30:19 <ais523> ah, I treat Funge as not having a program edge, really
21:30:29 <AnMaster> so you will get one space at edge probably
21:30:35 <AnMaster> at least that happens in ccbi and cfunge iirc
21:30:40 <AnMaster> it is not 100% well defined
21:30:55 <AnMaster> ais523, yet you won't get infinite spaces
21:31:24 <AnMaster> ais523, since wrapping works the same way in strings as outside them
21:32:03 <ais523> which is to conceptually go off to infinity and back the other side
21:32:13 <ais523> IMO that's the only sensible way to interpret Funge-98
21:32:16 <ais523> as everything else is a hack
21:32:55 <AnMaster> <ais523> optbot: are you a fungot? <optbot> ais523: Indeed. <-- hehehe
21:32:55 <optbot> AnMaster: hi
21:32:56 <fungot> AnMaster: vhdl is reactive by the nature of this channel
21:33:45 <AnMaster> <ais523> which is to conceptually go off to infinity and back the other side <-- no
21:33:58 <AnMaster> ais523, the interpreter keeps track of where the program data exists
21:34:02 <AnMaster> a bounding box for it
21:34:15 <AnMaster> then it wraps when you hit the edge for said bounding box
21:34:33 <ais523> well, that's how interpreters work
21:34:38 <oerjan> * AnMaster considers a strongly typed LISP
21:34:38 <ais523> but that's conceptually ugly
21:34:50 <AnMaster> oerjan, yes statically strongly typed even
21:34:50 <oerjan> there is Liskell, haskell with lisp syntax
21:35:01 <AnMaster> ais523, read the definition of wrapping then
21:35:20 <ais523> Lahey-space?
21:35:23 <AnMaster> ais523, http://catseye.tc/projects/funge98/doc/funge98.html#Wrapping
21:35:25 <ais523> it's going back along the line you came from
21:35:28 <AnMaster> was what I was thinking about
21:35:43 <AnMaster> ais523, Lahey-space is in an appendix, the section I linked isn't
21:35:52 <ais523> well, it talks about going beyond addressable space
21:35:54 <AnMaster> so I suspect the algorithmic description is more correct
21:35:59 <ais523> which is the whole 2^31-1 IMO
21:36:35 <fizzie> Note that it doesn't say anything about using a rectangular bounding box.
21:36:40 <AnMaster> fizzie, very true
21:36:49 <AnMaster> however I have yet to see an interpreter that doesn't
21:37:13 <AnMaster> ais523, err
21:37:15 <AnMaster> "When the IP attempts to travel into the whitespace between the code and the end of known, addressable space, it backtracks."
21:37:21 <AnMaster> not going beyond
21:37:23 <fizzie> AnMaster: GLfunge98. :p
21:37:25 <AnMaster> but that is edge
21:37:36 <AnMaster> "Travelling thus, it finds the other 'edge' of code when there is again nothing but whitespace in front of it. It is reflected 180 degrees once more (to restore its original delta) and stops ignoring instructions. Execution then resumes normally - the wrap is complete."
21:37:38 <AnMaster> ais523, see?
21:37:53 <AnMaster> fizzie, really? what does it use then? a counter for each line?
21:38:07 <oerjan> http://liskell.org/
21:38:59 <AnMaster> fizzie, anyway it also needs to track the bounding rect for y, and it needs to track the rect for non-cardinal wrapping, since even if it tracks per line/column what if you exit the edge diagonally, but end up on a longer line in the next jump
21:39:02 <fizzie> AnMaster: There was a tree-like structure of I think 16x16- or 64x64-sized blocks; I'm not sure if it was a multi-level tree or not, probably should've been for programs that use funge-space that's out there in the middle of nowhere. In any case, it would trigger wrapping when you exited a block and there were no more blocks in the outgoing line.
21:39:27 <AnMaster> fizzie, so it handled non-cardinal wrapping correctly?
21:39:54 <fizzie> AnMaster: It certainly tried to. There may have been bugs, but at least it mostly worked. I think. It's been quite a while, and the code was very very ugly.
21:40:03 <AnMaster> fizzie, did you write it or?
21:40:07 <fizzie> AnMaster: Yes.
21:40:09 <AnMaster> ah
21:40:17 <AnMaster> fizzie, does fungot work under it?
21:40:18 <fungot> AnMaster: another example of the sort you're talking about
21:40:52 <fizzie> AnMaster: Probably not. I didn't implement a lot of fingerprints, I'm not sure I did STRN for example. The development sort-of stalled quite early.
21:41:13 <AnMaster> fizzie, ah, how about mycology?
21:41:39 <fizzie> Never ran it under it; hadn't even heard of mycology until recently. I think Deewiant ran some tests with GLfunge98, though.
21:42:06 <fizzie> Yeah, only FOON, FPSP, NULL, ROMA, SCKE, SOCK are implemented.
21:42:11 <AnMaster> FOON?
21:42:11 <AnMaster> ?!
21:42:17 <AnMaster> what is that
21:42:18 <fizzie> That's just sillitude.
21:42:24 <AnMaster> fizzie, eh?
21:42:33 <AnMaster> I never heard of FOON before
21:42:58 <fizzie> I'm not surprised.
21:43:07 <fizzie> It just implements this number-to-string-and-back mapping: http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.misc/browse_thread/thread/5eeb8154a2a9ac0c/07f29c8ea40c35a3
21:43:10 <Deewiant> AnMaster, fizzie: GLfunge98 fails due to "# <" jumping over the <.
21:43:22 <AnMaster> Deewiant, ouch
21:43:36 <oerjan> AnMaster: iiuc Liskell also has macros in the lisp style
21:43:40 <AnMaster> oerjan, hm
21:43:46 <fizzie> Really, I wrote that thing back in 2001.
21:43:51 <AnMaster> fizzie, ah
21:44:02 <ehird> fizzie: You wrote http://groups.google.com/group/comp.lang.misc/browse_thread/thread/5eeb8154a2a9ac0c/07f29c8ea40c35a3?
21:44:25 <fizzie> ehird: No, that's not me. But a friend wrote a Befunge-93 program to convert numbers to that.
21:44:29 <ehird> Ah.
21:44:39 <fizzie> ehird: I have no idea why I have made a fingerprint for that.
21:45:06 <fizzie> Oh, right! The fingerprint was there to test the shared library that did the conversion.
21:45:32 <ehird> Wait, fizzie wrote glfunge?
21:45:52 <AnMaster> fizzie, it is missing quux
21:45:53 <fizzie> I did, but I'm not very proud about it.
21:45:59 <ehird> Huh.
21:46:07 <fizzie> AnMaster: Yes, but quux just leads to quuux, quuuux, ...
21:46:25 <AnMaster> fizzie, well also xyzzy
21:46:36 <ehird> Asztal: Don't call it sponge, btw.
21:46:39 <ehird> http://cubonegro.orgfree.com/sponge/sponge.html
21:46:59 <fizzie> AnMaster: It's just one scheme to generate... I was going to say an arbitrary, but it's not that; in any case, to generate a relatively large amount of names.
21:47:22 <fizzie> I think there was some sort of extension to larger numbers than that. Maybe archive.org still has mooz's befunge pages.
21:48:33 <Asztal> ehird: bah.
21:48:39 -!- jix has joined.
21:48:43 <fizzie> Yes, it does. Seems that he extended the Razzle, Dazzle sequence of suffixes with Giggle and Wiggle.
21:48:44 <Asztal> I hate naming thigs.
21:48:50 <ehird> Asztal: Call it egnuf
21:48:52 <Asztal> (thanks for the warning, though)
21:49:18 <AnMaster> I can't find what Asztal wanted to name in the scrollback
21:49:20 <AnMaster> ?
21:49:34 <oerjan> eggnog
21:49:50 <Asztal> AnMaster: a befunge interpeter
21:50:00 <AnMaster> ehird, anyway, one thing I find amusing about sponge is that it is compiles scheme, but is coded in common lisp
21:50:05 <Asztal> which is bad, since the other Sponge is also befunge-related :(
21:50:14 <oerjan> Asztal: Amanita
21:50:17 <ehird> Asztal: yes, call it eggnog!
21:50:29 <Asztal> beMunge, because munge is what it does :)
21:50:41 <oerjan> (poisonous fungi)
21:51:19 <AnMaster> Asztal, some names I know are in use: cfunge, efunge, ccbi, fbbi, rc/funge, !befunge, zfunge, glfunge, mycology, and a few more
21:51:22 <AnMaster> and always google to check
21:52:21 <Deewiant> rc/funge-98 to be exact
21:52:43 <Deewiant> and glfunge98
21:52:52 <AnMaster>  Results 1 - 10 of about 129 for beMunge. (0.13 seconds)  <-- turns out it think there are 25 hits when I show the last page... huh
21:52:57 <AnMaster> Deewiant, right
21:53:04 <Deewiant> then there's bequnge, fungus, language::befunge AKA jqbf, pyfunge
21:53:14 <Deewiant> or jqbf98
21:53:18 <AnMaster> Deewiant, however creating a glfunge93 or such would be highly confusing :P
21:53:27 <AnMaster> at least if it wasn't same author
21:53:32 <AnMaster> or a plain glfunge
21:53:33 <Deewiant> :-P
21:53:43 <AnMaster> same for rc/funge
21:53:59 <oerjan> AnMaster: http://www.digitalnature.org/fungi/alfabetic.html - take your pick
21:54:17 <AnMaster> Deewiant, Hm does mycology handle strange cases of io support correctly? Such as just o but not i supported, or vice verse?
21:54:27 <Deewiant> AnMaster: define "correctly"
21:54:34 <Asztal> hmm... Stinkhorn
21:54:35 <AnMaster> Deewiant, "doesn't print BAD"
21:54:35 <Deewiant> I think it complains about not being able to test
21:55:15 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I remember it used to print BAD because it, back in the beginning of the year when I hadn't written those parts in cfunge yet
21:55:25 <oerjan> hm what about truffles
21:55:28 <AnMaster> iirc you fixed it after I pointed out it was allowed not to support it in the standard
21:55:39 <ehird> oerjan: ALFABETIC
21:56:17 <AnMaster> "Bovine Bolete" <-- did FBBI get it's name from that or something?
21:56:37 <oerjan> ehird: what?
21:56:43 <ehird> oerjan: click that page
21:57:01 -!- omniscient_idiot has left (?).
21:57:20 <oerjan> ehird: i know it's alphabetic, what about it?
21:57:53 <ehird> oerjan: it says "alfabetic"
21:58:22 <AnMaster> heh
21:58:42 <oerjan> ehird: sheesh
21:59:35 <AnMaster> oh btw sponge generates insanely slow code
22:00:00 <Deewiant> what do you expect, scheme doesn't map very well to befunge :-P
22:00:04 <AnMaster> "No tail call optimization." <-- ugh
22:00:11 <ehird> ugh!
22:00:12 <AnMaster> that should break lots of stuff
22:00:14 <ehird> how dare it not be production ready!
22:00:26 <AnMaster> ehird, tail call is kind of central to scheme
22:00:26 <ehird> my corporation depends on scheme->befunge technology!
22:00:37 <ehird> AnMaster: its a proof of concept.
22:00:44 <AnMaster> true
22:00:52 <AnMaster> ehird, yet you overreacted on my comment
22:00:58 <ehird> no, that was sarcasm
22:03:35 <GregorR> Oh man.
22:03:40 <GregorR> I had forgotten how crappy all sodas that aren't Moxie are.
22:03:43 <GregorR> Moxie > *
22:03:45 <GregorR> For * in soda
22:04:17 <AnMaster> GregorR, Sodas? You mean fizzy water?
22:04:29 <AnMaster> I'm a bit unclear over the English words there
22:04:39 <AnMaster> s/over/on/ (maybe)
22:04:51 <GregorR> Yes.
22:04:55 <Deewiant> AnMaster: lemonade
22:04:57 <ais523> soda has varying meanings even within English
22:04:59 <AnMaster> GregorR, I dislike any fizzy water
22:05:03 <GregorR> Uh, no, not lemonade >_>
22:05:06 <AnMaster> prefer tap water around here at least
22:05:14 <AnMaster> good tap water where I live
22:05:16 <GregorR> Fizzy water with flavor :P
22:05:21 <ais523> I generally don't know what someone is referring to when they say soda even if we're both native english people
22:05:27 <AnMaster> worse in the big cities
22:05:29 <ais523> as different people have different concepts of what it is
22:05:38 <AnMaster> GregorR, that is even worse
22:05:39 <AnMaster> :(
22:05:47 <GregorR> AnMaster: You just haven't tried Moxie yet :P
22:05:47 <Deewiant> meh, "soft drink"
22:06:02 -!- olsner has joined.
22:06:14 <AnMaster> Just plain, non-fizzy water, tap water if not too much chlorine in it
22:06:42 <GregorR> I shouldn't have said "yes" to "fizzy water" ... I assumed you meant flavored fizzie water :P
22:06:53 <AnMaster> GregorR, well yes that is *way way* worse
22:06:57 <GregorR> We rarely drink plain carbonated water in the US.
22:06:58 <AnMaster> tha non-flavored
22:07:10 <AnMaster> rm "carbonated "*
22:07:14 <GregorR> Plain carbonated water = gross though :P
22:07:19 <AnMaster> add -rf there
22:07:21 <ais523> GregorR: it's actually kind-of common in the UK
22:07:22 <ais523> and I like it
22:07:29 <GregorR> ais523: I'm well aware :P
22:07:32 <ais523> but it's about 100 times more expensive than it ought to be
22:07:42 <AnMaster> how can anyone like carbonated *anything*?
22:07:45 <GregorR> ais523: When I was in Prague for a conference they only provided carbonated water during the conference.
22:07:49 <AnMaster> and flavoured water?
22:07:55 <ais523> AnMaster: some people like the taste of carbonic acid
22:07:58 <GregorR> ais523: Which would be fine if carbonated water wasn't so completely gross.
22:08:05 <ais523> I don't like flavoured water BTW, but I do like lemonade
22:08:08 <AnMaster> wtf is "saft" in English
22:08:09 <AnMaster> huh
22:08:12 <GregorR> AnMaster: SODA POP. Like Coca-Cola.
22:08:16 <AnMaster> that is properly flavoured "water"
22:08:23 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
22:08:23 <AnMaster> from berries and such
22:08:29 <ais523> GregorR: I've never heard coca-cola described as a soda before
22:08:32 <GregorR> ais523: WTF?!
22:08:43 <ais523> the word has really different meanings in different places
22:08:47 <GregorR> ARGH REGIONALISMS ARE MAKING MY BRAIN IMPLODE
22:08:48 <pikhq> ais523: Um, coke is the definitive soda.
22:08:49 <AnMaster> GregorR, coke is horrible
22:09:11 <AnMaster> non-carbonated coke could be ok I guess
22:09:17 <GregorR> *blech*
22:09:27 <GregorR> I'm taking my Moxie-love to some other channel :P
22:09:33 <pikhq> Uncarbonated coke? That's evil.
22:09:39 <AnMaster> Just can't stand what carbonated drinks do to my stomach
22:09:41 <AnMaster> they mess it up
22:09:43 <AnMaster> horribly
22:09:46 <pikhq> Apparently AnMaster has never had flat soda.
22:09:48 <AnMaster> and it doesn't even taste any good
22:09:50 <pikhq> Bleck.
22:09:59 <AnMaster> pikhq, I prefer tap water
22:10:10 <AnMaster> pikhq, unless it have too much chlorine
22:10:26 <AnMaster> then non-carbonated bottled water
22:10:29 * oerjan takes another sip of tap water
22:10:40 <AnMaster> oerjan, yeah where I live the tap water is very good
22:10:50 <AnMaster> much worse when you visit Gothenburg or other big cities
22:11:46 <pikhq> The tap water here is kinda bad. Tastes of chlorine.
22:12:18 <AnMaster> pikhq, well when I am at such places I tend to buy non-carbonated water bottled water
22:12:22 <AnMaster> which works fairly well
22:12:39 <ais523> AnMaster: yes, they're known for doing that
22:12:39 <ais523> hmm... probably liking or disliking carbonic acid is different between different people
22:12:49 <AnMaster> ais523, "big cities", "bottles" or?
22:13:05 <ais523> ais523: carbonated drinks are known for messing up stomachs
22:13:32 <AnMaster> <pikhq> Apparently AnMaster has never had flat soda. <-- If I have to drink coke I try to get rid of the fizzyness before drinking
22:13:51 <AnMaster> dropping some sugar in the drink tends to help with that
22:13:51 <pikhq> AnMaster, you are demonic.
22:13:52 <AnMaster> not sure why
22:14:01 <AnMaster> probably nucleation sites or something
22:14:11 <AnMaster> (or does that only apply to boiling?)
22:14:28 <AnMaster> pikhq, well carbonation is devlishish
22:14:32 <AnMaster> which is worse IMO
22:14:49 <oerjan> AnMaster: i think it applies to carbonation too, google the mentos + coke effect
22:15:02 <AnMaster> oerjan, ah well I guess that is what happens then
22:15:04 <AnMaster> seems reasonable
22:15:11 <AnMaster> just be careful
22:15:20 <AnMaster> and pour it in slowly
22:15:43 <AnMaster> ais523, ?
22:15:50 <AnMaster> ais523, who are they?
22:15:56 <ais523> AnMaster: ??
22:16:01 <AnMaster> <ais523> AnMaster: yes, they're known for doing that
22:16:03 <AnMaster> <AnMaster> ais523, "big cities", "bottles" or?
22:16:07 <AnMaster> no reply
22:16:08 <ais523> AnMaster: carbonated drinks
22:16:11 <AnMaster> err
22:16:12 <AnMaster> what?
22:16:16 <AnMaster> ais523, doing what then?
22:16:18 <ais523> are known for messing up stomachs
22:16:21 <AnMaster> ah
22:16:32 <AnMaster> ais523, well we had mentioned a lot of stuff in between
22:16:35 <AnMaster> so wasn't clear
22:17:14 <AnMaster> right
22:17:27 <oerjan> in our city the water authorities occasionally advertise how good and cheap the water is.  for some reasons norwegians buy a lot of bottled water despite the tap water often being better
22:17:42 <AnMaster> ais523, well also I'd say major cities are known for adding lots of chlorine to tap water
22:17:49 <AnMaster> much more than small towns
22:17:59 <ais523> well, Birmingham tap water is excellent IMO, I don't like the tap water in most of the rest of the UK though
22:18:12 <ais523> and I think the water's split up by water company here, rather than by city size
22:18:13 <AnMaster> ais523, hm how much chlorine is used ther?
22:18:14 <AnMaster> there*
22:18:20 <ais523> not sure, but I can't taste any
22:18:38 <AnMaster> oerjan, don't know if you have the word "studiebesök" in NNorwegian but wtf is it in English?
22:18:57 <AnMaster> like a school class visiting some industry or such and being shown around
22:19:14 <oerjan> study trip?
22:19:19 <AnMaster> oerjan, possibly
22:20:41 <oerjan> or class trip
22:20:46 -!- atrapado has quit ("Abandonando").
22:20:47 <AnMaster> anyway I was on a "studiebesök" to the local vattenverk (water cleaning plant???) years ago. And they said they hardly needed to add any chlorine to the water at all.
22:21:18 <ehird> coke is awesome
22:21:22 <ehird> er, not the drug
22:21:34 <GregorR> Moxie > Coca-Cola
22:21:38 <AnMaster> ehird, Freudian slip?
22:21:40 <AnMaster> ;P
22:21:45 <ehird> AnMaster: no, just double meaninged words
22:21:45 <ehird> :P
22:21:51 <GregorR> No, this would be a Freudian slip:
22:21:53 <ehird> also never hard of moxie
22:21:53 <GregorR> Penis is awesome
22:21:55 <GregorR> Er, Coke
22:21:59 <ehird> GregorR: Penis is awesome yeah
22:22:00 <AnMaster> GregorR, ah right
22:22:00 <ehird> ... wait what
22:22:13 <ehird> what does moxie taste like
22:22:14 <ehird> roughly
22:22:21 <oerjan> GregorR: that's a bit much.  what about: Cok is awesome
22:22:21 * AnMaster consider a reverse Freudian slip
22:22:22 <AnMaster> like
22:22:24 <GregorR> ehird: I'm told it's similar to bitter root beer, but I don't agree with that.
22:22:27 <AnMaster> you meant to say something dirty
22:22:33 <AnMaster> but said something innocent instead
22:22:40 <ehird> I suck coke.
22:22:40 <AnMaster> and correct yourself to the dirty one
22:22:44 <ehird> Daily.
22:22:46 <ehird> Er, cock.
22:22:52 <GregorR> ehird: I can't equate it to anything else. It's not entirely dissimilar to root beer or coke, but it isn't all that similar to either.
22:22:53 <AnMaster> ehird, something like that yeah heheh
22:23:17 <ehird> Also http://www.baconsalt.com/
22:23:26 <ehird> consider
22:23:28 <ehird> bacon soda.
22:23:42 <ehird> CONSIDER IT
22:24:02 <ais523> ehird: no, I don't want to...
22:24:13 <ehird> whyever not? ! ! !
22:24:44 * AnMaster agrees with ais523 
22:24:49 <ehird> pfft
22:24:50 <oerjan> ehird: to go with egg and bacon icecream?
22:24:56 <ehird> oerjan: ... no
22:25:03 <AnMaster> oerjan, well yeah obviousl
22:25:06 <AnMaster> obviously
22:25:17 <AnMaster> oerjan, actually only egg icecream
22:25:19 <ais523> or snail porridge?
22:25:29 <AnMaster> since you get the bacon from the drink
22:25:30 <ehird> fuck you guys, bacon soda sounds great
22:25:37 <oerjan> AnMaster: alas i think icecream already contains eggs
22:25:40 * GregorR is now strongly considering buying bacon salt :P
22:25:45 <ehird> GregorR: do it
22:25:46 <AnMaster> oerjan, so having bacon in the icecream too would be redundant
22:25:49 <AnMaster> oerjan, yes it does
22:25:54 <GregorR> ehird: Everything /should/ taste like bacon ...
22:26:03 <ehird> GregorR: exactly
22:26:09 <AnMaster> what a horrible idea
22:26:11 <ehird> or chocolate
22:26:15 <ehird> everything should taste of either bacon or chocolate
22:26:18 <oerjan> bacon chocolate
22:26:19 <AnMaster> ehird, try surströmming
22:26:20 <ehird> and chocolate bacon should taste like amazing
22:26:22 <AnMaster> or lutfisk
22:26:22 <ehird> oerjan: old
22:26:23 <AnMaster> :P
22:26:24 <ehird> done before
22:26:32 <ehird> AnMaster: No. :P
22:26:36 <oerjan> mm, lutefis
22:26:38 <oerjan> *k
22:26:42 <ehird> hmm... chocolate bacon soda
22:26:44 <AnMaster> ehird, I'm told they taste like bacon :P
22:26:44 <ehird> FUCK YEAH
22:26:49 <ehird> AnMaster: Uh-huh. :P
22:27:00 <AnMaster> oerjan, I don't actually like either of them, nor bacon
22:27:14 <AnMaster> bacon is really a horrible thing to do with meat
22:27:16 <AnMaster> IMO
22:27:25 <oerjan> of course there should be bacon with the lutefisk
22:27:32 <AnMaster> oerjan, oh?
22:27:37 <AnMaster> I can't say I know the details
22:27:50 <ehird> bacon is horrible?!
22:27:52 <ehird> how dare you
22:28:18 * ehird revokes AnMaster's humanity license
22:28:20 <GregorR> ehird: AnMaster clearly has no taste :P
22:28:25 <ehird> GregorR: -buds
22:28:27 <AnMaster> ehird, taste is highly subjective
22:28:30 <GregorR> ehird: Doesn't like Coke or bacon? Honestly.
22:28:44 <ehird> AnMaster: I'm sorry, I can't hear you, because you can't talk, because you're not a human
22:28:52 <GregorR> AnMaster: So is smell, but nobody thinks roses smell like fart :P
22:28:58 <ehird> ...
22:28:58 <ehird> i do
22:29:01 <GregorR> (I can't talk, I hate cheese :P )
22:29:02 <AnMaster> GregorR, indeed
22:29:09 <oerjan> would dropping bacon in coke remove the carbonation, i wonder
22:29:12 <AnMaster> mmmm cheese
22:29:16 <AnMaster> I like cheese
22:29:16 <AnMaster> :D
22:29:23 <AnMaster> mostly hard, and not soft ones
22:29:38 <AnMaster> cheddar is one of my all time favourites btw.
22:29:47 <AnMaster> though I like several other ones
22:29:51 <ehird> yeck cheese
22:29:56 <oerjan> GregorR: there are some medical conditions that cause things to smell differently, i think
22:29:59 <AnMaster> ehird, what you don't like cheese!?
22:30:02 <AnMaster> how dare you
22:30:09 <ais523> oerjan: or not at all in some cases
22:30:16 * AnMaster revokes ehird's humanity license
22:30:20 <ais523> also, I can't eat cheese for medical reasons
22:30:20 <GregorR> ehird: Wait, you don't like cheese either?
22:30:27 <ehird> GregorR: Nope
22:30:28 <AnMaster> ais523, ouch
22:30:29 <ehird> Not most of the time
22:30:33 <GregorR> ehird: A kindred spirit! :P
22:30:33 <ais523> at least, not very much
22:30:34 <AnMaster> ais523, must really really hurt
22:30:35 <ais523> I can occasionally
22:30:36 <ehird> There are some circumstances in which I like it
22:30:42 <ais523> and I sort of like it, but not all taht much
22:31:48 <AnMaster> also garlic rocks
22:31:56 <AnMaster> :)
22:32:12 * AnMaster wonders who will agree/disagree on that
22:32:19 <oerjan> mm, garlic
22:32:21 -!- ais523 has changed nick to AntiGarlicMonser.
22:32:23 -!- AntiGarlicMonser has changed nick to AntiGarlicMonste.
22:32:29 <ehird> monste
22:32:40 <AntiGarlicMonste> why not?
22:32:41 * AnMaster is now know as ThisNickIsWayWayWayTooLon
22:32:53 * oerjan breathes on the AntiGarlicMonste 
22:33:01 <AntiGarlicMonste> AnMaster: did you manage to get that to hit the length limit exactly?
22:33:02 * AnMaster joins oerjan 
22:33:09 <AntiGarlicMonste> mine seems to hit the limit but it's shorter
22:33:13 <AnMaster> AntiGarlicMonste, hm? No
22:33:18 <AnMaster> It was just random /me
22:33:20 <AntiGarlicMonste> ah, you just used /action
22:33:27 <AntiGarlicMonste> I should have noticed from the typo
22:33:28 -!- AntiGarlicMonste has changed nick to ais523.
22:33:29 <AnMaster> AntiGarlicMonste, did it look the same in your client?
22:33:38 <ais523> no, different
22:33:44 <ais523> there were the wrong number of *s at the start
22:33:49 <ais523> and it was the wrong colour
22:33:54 <ais523> I just wasn't paying attention
22:33:55 <AnMaster> + Nick change: AntiGarlicMonste -> ais523
22:33:58 <AnMaster> is what it looks like here
22:34:06 <ais523> was up until almost 5am the night before last
22:34:08 <ais523> *** You are now known as ais523.
22:34:19 <oerjan> 23:33 AntiGarlicMonste is now known as ais523
22:34:34 <AnMaster> ais523, also how can you not like garlic?
22:34:37 <AnMaster> and what about ehird?
22:34:39 <AnMaster> do you like it?
22:34:42 <AnMaster> and GregorR ?
22:34:55 * GregorR reappears.
22:34:55 <oerjan> AnMaster: duh he's a vampire obviously
22:34:56 <ais523> AnMaster: I'm neutral towards it, I don't eat it all that much
22:34:56 <GregorR> Garlic = awesome.
22:35:02 <ehird> GregorR: Yeah.
22:35:13 <GregorR> I have actually cooked garlic in a little bit of oil and eaten it just like that.
22:35:13 <AnMaster> ais523, hm
22:35:51 <GregorR> And garlic-grilled onions = best food there is that doesn't involve killing animals.
22:35:56 <AnMaster> GregorR, try putting a whole garlic (with the shell or whatever the English word is still on) on a bed of salt, then put it in the oven for a while
22:36:17 <AnMaster> then you squeeze the stuff out of the garlic when you eat it
22:36:32 <GregorR> AnMaster: Sounds simple enough - next time I happen to have whole garlic I will.
22:36:43 <AnMaster> GregorR, don't have the needed time or temperature data around here
22:37:04 <AnMaster> GregorR, also it should be coarse sal
22:37:06 <AnMaster> salt*
22:37:13 <GregorR> Oh, that complicates things :)
22:37:21 <AnMaster> GregorR, what bit?
22:37:23 <AnMaster> salt or?
22:37:37 <GregorR> Using rock salt.
22:37:51 <AnMaster> GregorR, actually the salt is mostly there to provide some insulation iirc. So using beans or something could work
22:38:37 <AnMaster> GregorR, also fresh garlic
22:38:48 <AnMaster> not dried
22:38:56 <GregorR> AnMaster: Naturally.
22:39:04 <AnMaster> GregorR, that wasn't a problem as it grows just outside the kitchen window
22:39:10 <AnMaster> or somewhere around there
22:40:09 <AnMaster> GregorR, anyway I shall try to find the recipe sometime soon
22:40:44 <AnMaster> oh new topic: vanilla icecream is the best flavour of icecream
22:40:57 <ehird> Agreed.
22:40:58 * AnMaster pokes ais523 ehird GregorR ^
22:41:00 <AnMaster> oerjan,  too ^
22:41:04 * ais523 runs and hides
22:41:10 <AnMaster> ais523, well you disagree?
22:41:14 <ais523> actually, I like both vanilla and strawberry
22:41:18 <AnMaster> ehird, made from fresh vanilla pods!
22:41:23 <AnMaster> home made even
22:41:31 <ehird> AnMaster: It's ice cream, who cares :-P
22:41:39 <ehird> It's not like it could be _bad_
22:41:40 <AnMaster> the ice cream you find in shops is yuck IMO
22:42:15 <oklopol> i like my ice cream with cheese and onions.
22:42:23 <AnMaster> ehird, well yes, kind of, not enough cream in the stuff in shops
22:42:28 <AnMaster> oklopol, ew
22:42:36 <ehird> oklopol: Delicious!
22:42:37 <ehird> :P
22:42:48 <AnMaster> ehird, you said you didn't like cheese
22:42:55 <ehird> I was joking.
22:42:57 <ehird> As was oklopol.
22:42:59 <ehird> ...Probably
22:43:11 <AnMaster> who knows when it comes to him indeed
22:43:47 * GregorR reappears.
22:44:10 <GregorR> REAL Vanilla ice cream is the best, yes. That being said, I don't like ice cream any more, but that's part of my progressive dislike of dairy products.
22:44:20 <AnMaster> GregorR, milk rocks
22:44:22 <AnMaster> IMO
22:44:26 <GregorR> Is it purely an American thing that companies market no-flavor ice cream as "vanilla"?
22:44:31 <AnMaster> GregorR, no
22:44:48 <GregorR> Damn.
22:44:58 <GregorR> It's usually better when only America is stupid :P
22:45:13 <ehird> I like all ice cream, really. How can you not?
22:46:31 <GregorR> I never liked milk, then I stopped liking cheese, then I stopped liking yogurt, then milk chocolate, now ice cream. Next up on my progressive dairy-hatred would probably be sour cream if I had to venture a guess.
22:46:33 <AnMaster> GregorR, when I mean ice cream I mean *home made* icecream
22:46:44 <AnMaster> GregorR, from real vanilla yes
22:46:44 <GregorR> AnMaster: We don't home-make stuff in the US :P
22:47:03 <AnMaster> GregorR, well my mom is a gardening geek or something like that
22:47:06 <AnMaster> so we do it a lot
22:47:13 <ehird> AnMaster: Fyi, there's not actually enough of a difference in taste to call them separate things, it's just pretension :-P
22:47:17 <ehird> Not that there's anything wrong with pretension
22:47:31 <AnMaster> ehird, there is a differ in taste on the real stuff
22:47:36 <AnMaster> "<GregorR> Is it purely an American thing that companies market no-flavor ice cream as "vanilla"?"
22:47:40 <ehird> Everything differs in taste.
22:47:43 <AnMaster> that is the problem you had
22:48:06 <AnMaster> really a majority of the ice cream you can buy is like that
22:48:18 <AnMaster> use fresh vanilla pods when you make your icecream!
22:48:31 <ehird> YES SIR
22:48:35 <AnMaster> or if you can't find that, at least dried vanilla pods
22:48:49 <AnMaster> avoid the "vanilla flavoured sugar" stuff
22:48:50 <ehird> Teeeeen-SHUN!
22:50:06 * oerjan shuns the teens
22:50:33 <AnMaster> hey!
22:51:18 <AnMaster> oerjan, wait around 1 year and 2 months with that
22:51:26 <AnMaster> then I'm fine with it
22:51:42 * oerjan now wonders who else isn't a teen here.  GregorR and ais523 maybe?
22:51:52 <ehird> in here now
22:51:55 <ehird> or in here at all?
22:51:59 <ehird> for at all:
22:52:00 <ais523> oerjan: I'm 21
22:52:05 <ehird> lament is 20-something i think
22:52:05 <AnMaster> actually 1 year, 2 months and sizeof(October) - 9
22:52:06 <ehird> calamari is...31?
22:52:07 <AnMaster> to be exact
22:52:16 <ehird> dbc is... i dunno, 2x-3x
22:52:19 <AnMaster> 1 December is my bday
22:52:21 <ehird> fizzie is.. i dunno
22:52:26 <fizzie> ehird: 25.
22:52:28 <ehird> Deewiant is 2x, iirc
22:52:35 <ehird> ... really, we should be counting the teens
22:52:38 <ehird> not the non-teens
22:52:42 <ehird> oh, psygnisfive is 21
22:52:46 <AnMaster> almost 19
22:52:49 <AnMaster> :/
22:52:52 <psygnisfive> 22.
22:53:08 <ehird> let's instead count the teens
22:53:13 <oerjan> hm i had the impression the teens were the majority :D
22:53:23 <oklopol> ehird: i occasionally put clue cheese on my ice cream, other than that, i guess i wasn't serious; then again, i don't eat ice cream that often.
22:53:24 <fizzie> oerjan: Maybe they're just noisy. :p
22:53:27 <ais523> oerjan is probably 648
22:53:33 <ehird> AnMaster: bsmntbombdood comex oklopol pikhq
22:53:35 <ehird> and me
22:53:37 <oerjan> ais523: and a haf
22:53:39 <ehird> i think that's all the teens
22:53:50 <ais523> oerjan: ah, good guess then on my part
22:53:52 * ehird examines newbies
22:54:00 <AnMaster> how old is pikhq?
22:54:03 <AnMaster> exactly I mean
22:54:04 <ehird> Asztal: oc2k1: Jiminy_Cricket: DarkPants: how old are you
22:54:06 <ais523> ehird: thutubot is only a year or so old, possibly less
22:54:07 <ehird> AnMaster: 17 iirc
22:54:10 <ehird> ais523: :)
22:54:14 <AnMaster> ah
22:54:26 <ais523> hmm... I wonder if cmeme's a teen?
22:54:27 <AnMaster> ehird, olsner?
22:54:28 <ais523> or clog?
22:54:33 <ehird> ais523: har har
22:54:35 <ehird> AnMaster: not sur
22:54:36 <ehird> e
22:54:43 <ais523> but really, when would they have been created?
22:54:45 <fizzie> fungot's almost two months old, but I have no idea what that makes in "funge-bot years".
22:54:45 <fungot> fizzie: it's from an amiga demo. ;p
22:54:50 <ais523> IRC's been around for a while
22:55:05 <AnMaster> fizzie, could you plot the age distribution or something
22:55:09 <AnMaster> should be fairly interesting
22:55:22 <fizzie> Too much work to pick up the numbers here.
22:55:35 <AnMaster> (and I noted you down as the statistician here, since you tend to make good graphs :P)
22:55:41 <ais523> and logbots are an obvious thing to do with it
22:55:41 <ais523> and bye ehird
22:55:45 <AnMaster> (and diagrams)
22:55:52 <AnMaster> ais523, leaving already?
22:56:18 <oc2k1> why should anyone answer.....
22:56:19 <ehird> as I was saying
22:56:21 <ehird> er
22:56:23 <ehird> bye ais523
22:56:27 <ehird> anyway the ones i listed are definitely teens
22:56:31 <ehird> hm
22:56:33 <ehird> well maybe oklopol had a birthday
22:56:39 <AnMaster> oc2k1, for statistics?
22:56:42 <ehird> oc2k1: Why shouldn't they?
22:56:46 <oklopol> ehird: no.
22:56:52 <AnMaster> and what ehird said
22:56:56 <ais523> AnMaster: no, ehird did
22:56:58 <ais523> it's just that I'm the only person who can tell as we're on the same bouncer
22:57:01 <oklopol> oc2k1: don't answer, you'll lose your mystery
22:57:02 <ais523> except that neither ehird nor me will respond to pings when offline
22:57:02 <ehird> Oh, right. If you reveal your age we'll see if you're young enough, track down your address, and stalk & rape you
22:57:05 <ehird> am i rite
22:57:12 <oc2k1> If you need a statistic fake one :P
22:57:59 <AnMaster> ais523, I did whois on both of you
22:58:03 <AnMaster> and didn't see anything
22:58:12 <ais523> thutubot's still using 95% of my CPU by the way
22:58:13 <AnMaster> like away message or such
22:58:15 <ais523> just to count to 64
22:58:23 <AnMaster> ais523, insane
22:58:24 <ais523> and no, but /ctcp ping gives it away
22:58:24 <AnMaster> :D
22:58:31 <ais523> there's no response if we're offline
22:58:35 <AnMaster> ais523, yet it haven't timed out?
22:58:35 <ais523> and there is if we're online
22:58:37 <AnMaster> seems strange...
22:58:42 <AnMaster> or is it threaded?
22:59:04 <ais523> that is strange
22:59:17 <ais523> very strange in fact
22:59:30 <ais523> heh, it timed out hours ago
22:59:38 <AnMaster> ais523, it is connected here..
22:59:38 <ais523> but is still doing the calculation
22:59:44 <ais523> yes, that's the other strange part
22:59:52 <ais523> it's not receiving messages from Freenode any more though
22:59:53 <AnMaster> ais523, it was the strange part I meant
23:00:06 <AnMaster> ais523, wonderful. Probably hyperion being buggy
23:00:13 <ehird> MY NAME IS X=Z
23:00:13 <ais523> let me C-c it now
23:00:15 <ais523> and see what happens
23:00:15 <AnMaster> ais523, also how can count to 64 be so hard?
23:00:16 -!- thutubot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:00:20 <AnMaster> err
23:00:21 <AnMaster> wtf :P
23:00:22 <ehird> AnMaster: because
23:00:24 <ais523> perfect!
23:00:25 <ehird> its interpreting underload
23:00:26 <ehird> in thutu
23:00:29 <ehird> (a string rewriting language)
23:00:32 <ais523> or was
23:00:32 <AnMaster> ah
23:00:42 <ais523> AnMaster's wtf is at why Freenode hadn't booted it off
23:00:49 <ehird> AnMaster: ais523, also how can count to 64 be so hard?
23:00:49 <ais523> although it hadn't responded to pings for hours
23:00:51 <ais523> nor said anything
23:00:53 <ehird> ^ that is what i responded to
23:00:57 <ais523> ah, ok
23:00:57 <oerjan> freenode's boots are in the wash
23:01:00 <AnMaster> ais523, and why it disconnected at ctrl-c
23:01:06 <AnMaster> and yes ais523 is correct
23:01:34 <AnMaster> ais523, and yes on freenode just being active on the socket is enough
23:01:40 <AnMaster> but if you weren't that either...
23:01:41 <AnMaster> huh
23:02:01 <ais523> freenode had stopped sending data
23:02:10 <AnMaster> ais523, yes that is even more strange
23:02:15 <AnMaster> why wasn't it disconnected
23:02:25 <AnMaster> though... hyperion is buggy
23:02:47 <Asztal> ehird: 22
23:03:06 <ehird> wonder who the oldest one here is
23:03:09 <AnMaster> what sort of floating point is the floating point numbers in scheme btw?
23:03:11 <AnMaster> double?
23:03:13 <ehird> so far, calamari @ 31
23:03:25 <AnMaster> ehird, what about oerjan ?
23:03:29 <ehird> oh
23:03:30 <ehird> rite
23:03:33 <ehird> oerjan is like 35
23:03:35 <ehird> yes?
23:03:53 <AnMaster> rite? Some "comming-of-age rite"?
23:03:54 <AnMaster> or what?
23:03:56 <AnMaster> ;P
23:04:23 <oerjan> 38
23:04:29 <Asztal> ehird: how old are you?
23:04:31 <AnMaster> oerjan, poor you
23:04:35 <AnMaster> Asztal, he is 13
23:04:36 <ehird> Asztal: 13 since August.
23:04:41 <AnMaster> probably youngest here
23:04:42 <ehird> wb ais523
23:04:45 <ehird> AnMaster: no, asie
23:04:46 <AnMaster> don't know for sure
23:04:47 <ehird> is 10 or 11
23:04:56 <Asztal> !
23:05:01 <AnMaster> ehird, haven't seen asie iirc?
23:05:05 <ehird> AnMaster: asiekierka
23:05:06 <ehird> whatever
23:05:08 <AnMaster> ah
23:05:21 <AnMaster> ehird, that explains a lot about him/her ;P
23:05:44 <ais523> how old was oerjan?
23:05:45 <ehird> quite.
23:05:46 <ais523> I missed that bit
23:05:47 <ehird> ais523: 38
23:07:12 <ehird> wb
23:22:42 <AnMaster> question: do you prefer top-down or bottom-up design when programming?
23:23:56 <ehird> top-up or bottom-down
23:24:01 <oerjan> middle-out
23:24:10 <AnMaster> ehird, how do they work?
23:24:22 <ehird> i actually do more like top-middle-down
23:24:29 <ehird> i.e. i do both at the same time converging on middle
23:24:41 <AnMaster> ehird, ah hm.
23:24:42 <ehird> occasionally stretching the abstraction boundry higher or lower each side
23:24:44 <AnMaster> interesting
23:24:55 <ehird> i just code what feels like needs to be coded now, really
23:24:55 <AnMaster> quite a lot like how I do it
23:25:05 <ehird> rapid incremental development means it basically just evolves while I use i t
23:25:42 <AnMaster> ehird, yes same, however... top-down makes creating abstractions much easier
23:26:00 <ehird> AnMaster: I have a text editor and can refine code using its functionality.
23:26:05 <AnMaster> ehird, same
23:26:06 <ehird> I hear the new buzzword for that nowadays is "refactoring".
23:26:07 <AnMaster> but still
23:27:37 <ehird> Huh. Google resell eNom domain names if you say you don't own a domain in google apps setup.
23:27:47 <AnMaster> eNom?
23:28:07 <ehird> http://enom.com
23:28:11 <AnMaster> <insert lame nom meme>
23:28:13 <ehird> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/ENom
23:28:17 <ehird> enom nom nom
23:28:21 <ehird> bye ais523
23:35:08 <AnMaster> night
23:35:38 <ehird> bye.
23:46:18 <Slereah_> ehird : <3
23:48:30 <psygnisfive> ::licks ehirds cheek::
23:51:36 <oerjan> woof!
23:52:11 <Slereah_> Let's gang bang ehird
23:52:17 <ehird> no.
23:52:43 <Slereah_> Let's tag team ehird
23:52:49 <Slereah_> Let's tag system ehird
23:52:56 <Slereah_> Let's pop his stack
23:53:08 <Slereah_> Let's curry his variables
23:53:32 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving").