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00:50:03 <psygnisfive> a kind of grammar for handling the notion that phrases are headed
00:50:15 <psygnisfive> and that deeeeeply nested structures can be headed by things way down in them
00:51:18 <psygnisfive> for instance a verb phrase is really a phrase built around a verb
00:51:54 <psygnisfive> but the kind of grammar, a head-driven grammar, is pretty cool
00:53:56 <psygnisfive> it basically works like this: you have a pair, like <w1w2w3w4, 3>
00:54:13 <psygnisfive> the second is an index specifying which of those words is the head
00:54:53 <psygnisfive> to get the deeply nested headedness you'd use a function like so:
00:55:51 <psygnisfive> this is a left-branching construction, which says that you can take a phrase <s,i>
00:56:37 <psygnisfive> and "project" the head further up (that is, extend the phrase headed by s[i]) with some other phrase <t,j>
00:56:50 <psygnisfive> by adjoining <t,j> on the right, and producing the phrase <st,i>
00:56:58 <dbc> someone was asking
00:57:37 <psygnisfive> but because all of this stuff is indexed and so on you can do cool stuff
00:58:25 <ehird> dbc: yeah, first we were trying to work out the non-teens in here but then we realised there were more non-teens than teens
00:58:28 <ehird> so we just worked out the teens instead
00:58:51 <psygnisfive> Front(<w_1...w_n,i>) := <w_iw_1...w_i-1wi+1...w_m,1>
00:58:58 <ehird> dbc: btw your sunwait is down
01:01:27 <dbc> Thanks. I think I knew that but I forgot to take down the link.
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01:28:39 <psygnisfive> oh, something else thats apparently used frequently with head grammars is something like... whats called head wrapping:
01:29:22 <psygnisfive> RL2(<s,j>, <t,i>) := <t_1...t_i s t_i+1...t_n, i>
01:30:15 <psygnisfive> which they use to do shit like "taller than Sandy" is taken to be a constituent in sentences like "Kim is a much taller person than Sandy"
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01:31:12 <psygnisfive> and you get this discontinuity by headwrapping: RL2(<taller than sandy,1>, <person,1>) == <taller person than sandy, 1>
01:31:27 <psygnisfive> tho really it should <taller person than sandy, 2>
01:32:19 <psygnisfive> i wonder if something like this could be used in programming languages. its a queer but interesting kind of grammar
01:32:53 <psygnisfive> i suppose its a sort of unrestricted grammar, since it involves arbitrary sorts of rearrangement of elements
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01:52:48 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | lol.
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02:29:03 <ihope> Let's come up with random Thue sublanguages and try to figure out whether they're Turing-complete or not.
02:34:05 * ihope goes to random.org
02:37:02 <ihope> CGA ::= AA; CA ::= CAC; ACA ::= CC
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06:30:22 <optbot> asiekierka: as do I.. suprised he didn't tell anyone else
06:30:33 <optbot> fungot: there was a ", but" missing there, so I figured it might be deliberate
06:30:33 <fungot> optbot: just that i spend way too much.
06:30:34 <optbot> fungot: in terms of being terse
06:30:34 <fungot> optbot: i'm going with this? it goes against my ' never meeting neither suffering' rule.
06:30:35 <optbot> fungot: I'm kidding ;)
06:30:35 <fungot> optbot: help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen
06:30:35 <optbot> fungot: I have a huge text file called "INTEL 80386 PROGRAMMER'S REFERENCE MANUAL 1986"
06:30:36 <fungot> optbot: memory allocation is explicitly ignored in the spec
06:34:43 <asiekierka> and wondering how to interface with the irc protocol
06:34:47 <psygnisfive> so you're playing with yourself and with two bots
07:32:12 <oklopol> i'm definitely not a sinister whereabouts register
07:34:53 <psygnisfive> http://www.coverville.com/archives/2008/10/take_on_me_lite.html
07:47:23 <oklopol> is that the actual video, but different lyrics? ...or was the pipe wrench part by any chance added?
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07:50:18 <oklopol> right, after reading "literal cover", that's quite obvious
07:51:12 <oklopol> i've only seen part of that vid in family guy
07:52:48 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | hmm.
07:59:34 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | try wxmaxima.
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08:01:17 <optbot> psygnisfive: ooh wait a complication - if some letter of a cycle is duplicated, you don't need to use swap for that cycle
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09:58:18 <Mony> foxtrot uniform charlie kilo
10:20:58 <oklopol> i ain't a care in the world
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12:38:16 <Slereah_> Guys, let's make a Candlejack themed esol
12:51:00 * oerjan thinks that would be seriously awkward to program in
12:55:11 <oerjan> I think we could recommend it for IRP use, however.
12:57:29 <oerjan> of course although it's the first time i hear of it, it's probably a dead horse trope^Wmeme already.
13:01:48 <oerjan> also, you already broke it in your first message above
13:02:59 <oklopol> have you joined a swat team recently or something?
13:04:19 <oerjan> since your mentioning the name had no effect, i can only conclude that you must be the villain yourself
13:07:30 * oerjan watches in horror as ehird is nidkapped
13:09:17 <oerjan> of course _someone_ had to have had that idea before
13:52:48 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | OTOH it makes it considerably harder to create virtual temporary variables.
13:53:14 <oerjan> virtually impossible, in fact
13:58:10 <oklopol> oh god it's easy to crack me up
13:58:51 <oerjan> that's because you are tired
14:02:40 * oerjan wonders if there is a fundamental entropy obstacle to cheaply extracting CO2 from the atmosphere
14:03:32 <oklopol> is there a bot with a language with a random() functerion
14:03:57 <fizzie> There's fungot, written in Befunge, which has the ?.
14:03:57 <fungot> oklopol: i mean " gives the correct results" but it should be
14:03:57 <fungot> fizzie: you can write portable scheme if you wanted
14:04:03 <fungot> ^<lang> <code>; ^def <command> <lang> <code>; ^show [command]; lang=bf, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]
14:04:14 <fizzie> command that I haven't yet added to help.
14:04:33 <fizzie> fungot: Don't be so negative.
14:04:34 <fungot> fizzie: it is the tarpit winner :) i'll have none of that
14:05:16 <oklopol> Should I watch another charming episode of friends?
14:05:17 <oerjan> that didn't look overly uniform to me
14:05:29 <oerjan> oklopol: you can still /msg lambdabot
14:05:54 <fizzie> "bool" >?>0".oN" 61g:3+61p3P> ^
14:05:57 <fizzie> >17G0"loob"Q!|>0".seY" 61g:4+61p3P^
14:06:11 <oklopol> Then I ask again: Should I watch another episode?
14:06:31 <oklopol> oerjan: lambdabot is so mainstream, i don't wanna use it
14:06:49 <oerjan> well as long as you need only binary choices...
14:12:28 <oerjan> "The theoretically required energy for air capture is only slightly more than for capture from point sources."
14:12:53 <oerjan> so no to my entropy question i guess
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14:42:49 <AnMaster> Hm has anyone considered using radix trees for representing Funge-Space?
14:44:20 <AnMaster> hm probably wouldn't work well
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16:21:40 <GregorR> That should be "True" or "False" ...
16:21:45 <GregorR> I mean, it's an isomorphism, but still.
16:22:38 <ehird> GregorR: Shorter to write.
16:22:40 <ehird> in Befunge/Brainfuck.
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16:34:13 <oklopol> ehird: i had already gone.
16:35:11 <oklopol> AnMaster: what would the radices be?
16:39:31 <AnMaster> oklopol, row followed by column I guess
16:39:42 <AnMaster> except yes it doesn't work well when you have two values
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17:24:13 <ehird> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wikipedia:2008_main_page_redesign_proposal#88wolfmaster Ain't broke don't fix it.
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17:28:56 <asiekierka> Is Modular SNUSP a good lang for an ircbot
17:30:14 <asiekierka> Also, how do you implement the IRC protocol, any good documents on that
17:30:16 <ais523> it's sort of BF-like, and BF isn't that bad
17:30:37 <ais523> really the only thing a bot needs to be able to do is send the logon sequence
17:30:38 <ehird> asiekierka: The RFC.
17:30:45 <ais523> normally you want it to respond to PRIVMSG too
17:30:51 <ehird> asiekierka: Tough.
17:30:59 <ehird> It's not hard to read.
17:31:16 <ehird> The RFC includes documentation of the logon sequence.
17:32:34 <oklopol> asiekierka: i suggest you ggl an irc bot if you want an easy way out.
17:32:40 <ais523> anyway, the logon sequence is:
17:32:44 <ehird> asiekierka: http://www.irchelp.org/irchelp/rfc/rfc.html.
17:32:53 <ais523> USER hostname x x :Real Name
17:32:57 <ais523> where the xs are ignored
17:33:04 <ais523> you also probably want
17:33:04 <oklopol> yes, and just remember to put a \r\n after all messages.
17:33:15 <ehird> ais523: Please, don't spoonfeed him.
17:33:20 <oklopol> before doing join, you have to wait for the motd to finish
17:33:26 <ehird> Too many times he has said "How can I get info about X, apart from the definitive source about X>"
17:33:33 <ais523> Freenode will queue it up otherwise
17:33:35 <ehird> So just _let him read the RFC_
17:33:44 <oklopol> asiekierka: you can just skip the pass
17:34:01 <oklopol> nothing wrong with spoonfeeding something like this imo :\
17:34:11 <ehird> But then we have to tell him every detail of IRC all the way through.
17:34:13 <ehird> And that's ridiculous.
17:34:19 <ehird> We'd just end up copypasting the RFC.
17:35:29 <oklopol> ais523: okay you don't need to wait for it, but
17:35:38 <oklopol> you need to pong the ping that comes in the middle of the motd
17:35:54 <ais523> oklopol: you have a few seconds to do that
17:35:56 <asiekierka> also, you mean USER username x x :Realname
17:35:58 <ehird> freenode ignores pings
17:35:59 <ais523> and you can pong it after the JOIN
17:36:01 <ehird> you can never ping, ever
17:36:10 <ehird> and yes, asiekierka
17:36:12 <ais523> the username part of the hostname
17:36:22 <ais523> the xs would imply the other parts, but no sane server trusts those
17:36:22 <ehird> USER nick nick nick :Realname
17:36:32 <ehird> USER nick * * :realname will work fine too yeah
17:36:37 <ais523> ehird: the second and third arguments to USER are ignored by all sane ircds
17:36:41 <asiekierka> So i could just make a module outputting AsieBot in ModularSNUSP
17:37:04 <oklopol> are you saying just sending "NICK smth\r\nUSER smth smth smth :smth\r\nJOIN #esoteric\r\n" gets a bot on this channel?
17:37:53 <asiekierka> Yeah, but first, lemme install cygwin@netcat. urgh.
17:39:28 <asiekierka> And then you set up a loop for message receiving, and that's all!?
17:39:29 <AnMaster> asiekierka, you may need to respond to ping before the login finished
17:39:45 <ais523> you need to be able to respond to pings quickly, though
17:39:46 <AnMaster> several ircds use that on an early stage to test someone isn't abusing a http proxy
17:39:50 <ais523> AnMaster: yes, but that's based on time
17:39:56 <ais523> so as long as you reply to the ping fast enough
17:40:02 <AnMaster> ais523, yes and with the right message
17:40:02 <ais523> it doesn't matter if you send other messages first
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17:40:23 <oklopol> this network is a bit more bot-friendly than qnet.
17:40:25 <ais523> what I mean is, you can send a login sequence
17:40:29 <ais523> and then reply to the ping
17:40:35 <AnMaster> oklopol, but they plan to change ircd soon
17:40:41 <AnMaster> so doing it properly is important
17:40:50 <oklopol> in quakenet, you absolutely have to pong the one ping @ startup.
17:40:56 <AnMaster> ais523, and sure, that is what I do
17:41:24 <oklopol> yeah, well that would be nice, i would be right, retroactively.
17:41:24 <AnMaster> oklopol, they agree hyperion suck. They plan something based on charybdis
17:41:53 <oklopol> i have no idea what those are, well, i wouldn't have known without context
17:42:15 <ais523> /^PING (.*)=x/--PONG $1=r=n=x/
17:42:21 <ais523> is the relevant line from Thutubot
17:42:22 <oklopol> AnMaster: yes, i had the context
17:42:29 <AnMaster> ais523, interesting regex dialect
17:42:36 <ais523> (the -- is a marker, it gets removed later)
17:42:44 <ais523> AnMaster: not at all, those are straightforward Perl regexen
17:42:55 <ais523> it's just that Thutu puts interesting stuff in the string the regexen match
17:43:09 <ais523> =x is used to control I/O, for instance
17:43:26 <AnMaster> ais523, They are Thutu commands?
17:43:38 <ais523> well, Thutu commands are different
17:43:44 <ais523> but if there's an =x in the string at the end of the program
17:43:49 <ais523> everything before it is output to stdout
17:43:51 <ais523> and the program restarts
17:43:58 <ais523> with =r and =n being replaced by \r and \n
17:44:09 <AnMaster> ais523, restarts? Yet the bot stays connected?
17:44:22 <ais523> AnMaster: the program doesn't exit and load again
17:44:26 <ais523> it's like there's a loop around the program
17:44:39 <ais523> it's something like while ($_ =~ /=9/)
17:45:16 <asiekierka> And looking for a final decision on a esolang for my ircbot
17:46:52 <AnMaster> ais523, if the program is restarted, what about state?
17:47:01 <ais523> AnMaster: everything after the =x
17:47:07 <ais523> so you can keep state that way
17:47:16 <ais523> you can't keep it any other way though
17:47:20 <AnMaster> ais523, also what paradigm is Thutu? String rewriting is my best guess
17:47:36 <ais523> with a few imperative control structures
17:47:41 <ais523> rewriting is how it stores data
17:47:45 <ais523> rather than how it does program flow
17:48:10 <ais523> my guess is someone typing into netcat by hand
17:48:26 <smthcoolbot> COOL COOL COOL COOL ALL AROUND THE TABLE :DDDDDDDDD
17:48:34 <smthcoolbot> COOL COOL COOL COOL ALL AROUND THE TABLE :DDDDDDDDD
17:48:50 <ais523> asiekierka: by typing the PONG by hand?
17:48:58 <ais523> it gives you a minute or so to respond
17:49:04 <oklopol> nice, i can just connect, and write the bot loop on the fly.
17:49:06 <ais523> and it doesn't care about typos in the PONG return string
17:49:20 <ais523> most ircds aren't nearly as lenient
17:49:21 <asiekierka> That gives enough time for my 100mhz laptop to do it!
17:49:25 <ais523> also it doesn't send you pings if you're active
17:49:50 <asiekierka> My 100mhz laptop->parallel/serial cable->netcat->parallel/serial cable->My 100mhz laptop...
17:49:50 <oklopol> even without ponging, you can stay up for about a day
17:49:55 <AnMaster> ais523, normally ping time out is something like 30-200 seconds
17:49:58 <oklopol> so yeah it's a bit more than a minute.
17:50:10 <asiekierka> Which is why i'm not pinging out from here so much
17:50:17 <AnMaster> oklopol, As long as you send something else on freenode
17:50:31 <AnMaster> oklopol, Freenode only cares the socket is active, not what you send
17:50:45 <AnMaster> most other ircds require you to do it properly
17:50:49 <oklopol> AnMaster: i once had ~15 bots here, all dead
17:51:04 <oklopol> then they suddenly pinged out
17:51:07 * ais523 looks at the source of Thutubot, to try to prevent people crashing it with infiniloops
17:52:11 <Slereah_> Didn't we use to have a bot that ran many esolangs?
17:52:24 <ais523> hasn't been here for ages though
17:52:38 <Slereah_> What happened to him? Kidnapped by ninjas?
17:52:57 <AnMaster> Slereah_, depended on an unportable and no longer maintained library that did strange low level stuff
17:53:12 <AnMaster> to suspend processes to disk or something like that
17:53:26 <AnMaster> Slereah_, I planned writing one in erlang
17:53:39 <AnMaster> that would use processes in erlangish way
17:53:48 <AnMaster> asiekierka, yes, that was what I were referring to
17:54:23 <AnMaster> IIRC it did strange stuff with assuming what registers setjmp/longjmp used in certain ways
17:55:22 <Slereah_> Yay, Melab made another page :D
17:55:43 <AnMaster> asiekierka, still I think Taxi is a good choice for an irc bot
17:56:04 <AnMaster> asiekierka, what language did you select?
17:56:09 <Slereah_> "This language is called Bit logic because it mainly uses logic symbols and binary/hexadecimal notation for commands."
17:57:09 <AnMaster> asiekierka, example: "Crime Lab tests if all dropped off string passengers are equal to each other, if so returns 1 passenger with the value, otherwise no passenger is returned, non-string is an error"
17:57:19 <AnMaster> http://www.bigzaphod.org/taxi/
17:57:59 <AnMaster> asiekierka, remember you need to make money
17:58:03 <AnMaster> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Taxi
17:58:21 <AnMaster> asiekierka, iirc there is some RPN calculator coded in it even
17:58:31 <AnMaster> ah yes http://www.bigzaphod.org/taxi/calc.nick_turner.txt
17:59:03 <asiekierka> If you ride to the Post Office for a string, for example, "PING abc\r\n" what would i get?
17:59:29 <AnMaster> asiekierka, download it and check?
17:59:39 <AnMaster> "Post Office drop off string passengers to print to stdout, pickup a passenger to read a string line from stdin"
18:00:21 <asiekierka> mainly because i can print out the map and use it
18:00:38 <AnMaster> asiekierka, another idea: RUBE
18:01:13 <ehird> rube would be better
18:01:42 <asiekierka> "passengers dropped off at Riverview Bridge seem to always fall over the side and into the river thus the driver collects no pay, but at least the pesky passenger is gone " :D
18:02:18 <smthcoolbot> COOL COOL COOL COOL ALL AROUND THE TABLE :DDDDDDDDD
18:02:24 <AnMaster> and easy to confuse with rubybot
18:02:39 <smthcoolbot> COOL COOL COOL COOL ALL AROUND THE TABLE :DDDDDDDDD
18:02:40 <ehird> smthcoolbot: Hi oklopol
18:02:40 <smthcoolbot> COOL COOL COOL COOL ALL AROUND THE TABLE :DDDDDDDDD
18:02:48 <ehird> AnMaster: It's by oklopol obviously.
18:02:50 <ehird> smthcoolbot: What are you written in
18:02:50 <smthcoolbot> COOL COOL COOL COOL ALL AROUND THE TABLE :DDDDDDDDD
18:03:09 <asiekierka> I wonder which place in Taxi can split a string, "PING agjg" into "PING" and "agjg"
18:03:15 -!- thutubot has joined.
18:03:22 <AnMaster> right, ignore on that smthcoolbot
18:03:22 <smthcoolbot> COOL COOL COOL COOL ALL AROUND THE TABLE :DDDDDDDDD
18:03:25 <ehird> oklopol: whats smthcoolbot bot written in
18:03:25 <smthcoolbot> COOL COOL COOL COOL ALL AROUND THE TABLE :DDDDDDDDD
18:03:36 <ehird> you're being an idiot
18:03:39 <ehird> it only talks when someone pings it
18:03:41 <smthcoolbot> COOL COOL COOL COOL ALL AROUND THE TABLE :DDDDDDDDD
18:03:45 <AnMaster> ehird, or when someone says "cool"
18:03:45 <smthcoolbot> COOL COOL COOL COOL ALL AROUND THE TABLE :DDDDDDDDD
18:03:47 <ais523> I prevented it being broken by infiniloops
18:03:56 <AnMaster> <AnMaster> rubebot would be cool
18:03:56 <AnMaster> <smthcoolbot> COOL COOL COOL COOL ALL AROUND THE TABLE :DDDDDDDDD
18:03:56 <smthcoolbot> COOL COOL COOL COOL ALL AROUND THE TABLE :DDDDDDDDD
18:03:56 <smthcoolbot> COOL COOL COOL COOL ALL AROUND THE TABLE :DDDDDDDDD
18:04:08 <ais523> asiekierka: that has no output commands in
18:04:12 <ais523> so it isn't going to do anything
18:04:21 <smthcoolbot> COOL COOL COOL COOL ALL AROUND THE TABLE :DDDDDDDDD
18:04:30 <ais523> asiekierka: neither does that
18:04:34 <ehird> what's smthcoolbot written in
18:04:34 <smthcoolbot> COOL COOL COOL COOL ALL AROUND THE TABLE :DDDDDDDDD
18:04:48 <AnMaster> oklopol, and can you make it only speak when it's *full name* is mentioned
18:04:52 <smthcoolbot> COOL COOL COOL COOL ALL AROUND THE TABLE :DDDDDDDDD
18:05:04 <ehird> AnMaster: its obviously a test bot, idiot
18:05:08 <ehird> nobody makes a whole bot just for that
18:05:17 <ehird> but e.g. my bots always do stuf like that while im getting them running
18:05:20 <ais523> ok, it seems to be relatively crashed
18:05:27 <ehird> AnMaster: oklopol isn't an idiot
18:05:34 <AnMaster> ehird, indeed, but he is strange.
18:05:45 <AnMaster> you said as much yourself several times
18:05:45 <ehird> He is not an idiot.
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18:10:11 <asiekierka> Except the Chop Suey, you can't split strings!
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18:10:46 <AnMaster> asiekierka, if you didn't want an esolang, don't use one
18:11:36 <AnMaster> asiekierka, Ok, I agree the fuel stuff will be hard
18:11:57 <AnMaster> Rube got much worse string handling, but otherwise it should work well
18:12:16 <asiekierka> Because the fuel stuff can be done with "dummy passengers"
18:12:24 <AnMaster> asiekierka, split string up, compare each char, taking branches as needed. Then rebuild strings
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18:12:49 <ais523> ugh, that shouldn't have happened
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18:13:04 <AnMaster> asiekierka, possibly you want to use the cyclone thing
18:13:26 <asiekierka> And put one of the clones away somewhere
18:13:38 -!- thutubot has joined.
18:13:48 <AnMaster> asiekierka, not sure how to rebuild string
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18:14:06 <asiekierka> You just must ride there and there a lot
18:14:19 <AnMaster> asiekierka, you got lables and conditional jumps
18:14:47 <AnMaster> asiekierka, Consider that a luxury!
18:15:12 <AnMaster> asiekierka, you can do Switch to plan "mainloop"
18:15:27 <asiekierka> Also, yes, i did program in C64 basic this vacation
18:15:45 <AnMaster> but I know the basics of basic
18:15:59 <AnMaster> and that made me decide to not even code basic basic programs. basically
18:16:33 <AnMaster> Still that is nowhere near oerjans puns :/
18:16:38 <AnMaster> asiekierka, btw how old are you?
18:16:56 <AnMaster> ehird said you were younger than him
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18:17:15 <AnMaster> well probably youngest around here
18:17:28 <AnMaster> asiekierka, basically 11 then?
18:17:32 <ehird> you haven't got past the "specifying more specifically than your years in agre"
18:17:35 -!- thutubot has joined.
18:18:01 <asiekierka> Ugh, i wanted to ask something about Taxi, but i forgot what
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18:18:08 <AnMaster> ehird, well it is logical doing so. I mean you can round 184763897465783 to 184760000000000 in many cases
18:18:15 <AnMaster> but 0.42 to 0 would often be silly
18:18:28 <asiekierka> Oh, how do you pick up a specified value?
18:18:36 <asiekierka> I have 13, then 10, then 32 set in starchild numerology
18:19:00 <asiekierka> 13 is waiting at the Starchild Numerology.
18:19:00 <asiekierka> 10 is waiting at the Starchild Numerology.
18:19:00 <asiekierka> 32 is waiting at the Starchild Numerology.
18:19:10 <asiekierka> Assume i'm at the Starchild Numerology
18:19:13 <AnMaster> asiekierka, then I think you pick them up in that order?
18:19:30 -!- thutubot has joined.
18:19:37 <AnMaster> asiekierka, "<AnMaster> asiekierka, then I think you pick them up in that order"
18:19:51 <AnMaster> asiekierka, http://www.bigzaphod.org/taxi/calc.nick_turner.txt
18:20:01 <AnMaster> considering that seems to do that way
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18:21:37 <AnMaster> ais523, was long time for 64 count caused by some bug or?
18:21:41 <ais523> asiekierka: which platform?
18:21:50 <ais523> AnMaster: no, just due to being inefficient
18:22:11 <ais523> anyway, it is buggy atm
18:22:17 <ais523> as I'm trying to put execution time limits on it
18:22:48 <AnMaster> or you will have trouble running the program
18:22:56 <AnMaster> asiekierka, seems reasonable for a C++ program?
18:23:14 <AnMaster> asiekierka, you may want -Os if not
18:23:28 <Deewiant> you don't need to append the .exe, mingw is smart enough to do it for you
18:23:53 <AnMaster> asiekierka, -O999 is same as -O3
18:24:12 <AnMaster> there is no higher level than -O3
18:28:05 <asiekierka> there sure is a long way going to the Starchild Numerology a "short way"
18:28:05 <asiekierka> Go to Starchild Numerology: west 1st left, 1st right, 3rd left, 1st right, 1st left, 2nd left.
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18:33:38 <AnMaster> asiekierka, probably want to select shortest routes in general to save fuel
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18:35:29 <ais523> stupid mixed tabs and spaces
18:35:36 <ais523> in an indentation-caring language
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18:36:04 <AnMaster> asiekierka, how long is the route past Magic Eight?
18:36:07 <ais523> AnMaster: two-space tabs?
18:36:25 <ais523> the problem was that some spaces ended up inside a tab
18:36:38 <ais523> anyway, Thutu's official indentation style is two-space
18:37:04 <AnMaster> asiekierka, might not be exact
18:37:17 <AnMaster> asiekierka, can you get debug info from Taxi on that?
18:38:44 -!- thutubot has joined.
18:38:48 <AnMaster> "Each passenger pays a standard fare of 0.07 credits per mile for the distance they have been riding in the cab."
18:39:04 <thutubot> -%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%-%
18:39:10 <ais523> hmm... that was strange
18:39:19 <AnMaster> asiekierka, it is near the top
18:39:20 <asiekierka> but if it's too far away, it may end off cheaper to go to another place
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18:39:47 <AnMaster> asiekierka, hm what if you pick up a passenger going to Zoom Zoom?
18:40:46 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
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18:41:04 <asiekierka> debug: 2 "W1:L1:R1:L1:R1:L1:L2:L" Starchild Numerology
18:41:05 <asiekierka> debug2: 2 "W1:L1:R1:L1:R1:L1:L2:L" Starchild Numerology gas: 20 credits: 0 miles: 0
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18:41:52 <AnMaster> ais523, what about hot code reload in thutubot?
18:41:56 -!- thutubot has quit (Client Quit).
18:41:59 <ais523> AnMaster: it's a compiled language
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18:44:03 <asiekierka> I think it updates only when i pick up someone
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18:46:35 <asiekierka> The first way (thru the magic eight) is 6.06922 miles
18:47:42 <asiekierka> The second one (through Firemouth) is 6.62596 miles
18:48:17 <asiekierka> The third one (through the Crime Lab) is 6.09101 miles
18:49:19 -!- puzzlet_ has joined.
18:50:07 <asiekierka> While the way through the riverview bridge is (O_O) 10.9714 miles! :D
18:51:09 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
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18:54:08 -!- sebbu2 has changed nick to sebbu.
18:54:45 <ais523> ah, there must be something wrong with the S command
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18:58:22 <ais523> you need a USER command as well
18:58:27 <ais523> and a PASS command if you register the thingg
19:00:49 <ehird> asiekierka: Boring but fun. I see.
19:00:54 <ehird> That totally makes sense.
19:01:27 <ehird> But 90% boring 10% fun is just "boring".
19:01:37 <ehird> Nothing is _totally_ boring.
19:01:50 <asiekierka> Sitting there and doing nothing is totally boring
19:02:00 <ehird> asiekierka: No it's not!
19:02:17 -!- puzzlet has quit (Connection timed out).
19:03:49 -!- thutubot has joined.
19:04:08 <thutubot> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ...out of time!
19:04:22 <ais523> now I just need to put the time limit up
19:04:30 <ais523> hmm... probably I should cap the number of characters of output too
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19:05:04 <asiekierka> This changes my plans as i can just send the whole sequence!
19:05:15 <asiekierka> Do you even IMAGINE how much miles does this save!?
19:06:26 -!- smthcoolbot has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
19:07:47 <asiekierka> I also prepared Taxi for running with netcat
19:09:02 -!- thutubot has joined.
19:09:35 <thutubot> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ...too much output! ...out of time!
19:10:09 <asiekierka> So how do you run nc with... "taxi.exe tst.txt"?
19:10:28 <ais523> asiekierka: on Linux, you'd create a fifo
19:10:40 <ais523> and pipe the fifo to netcat to taxi to the fifo
19:10:49 <ais523> I doubt that works on Windows, though
19:11:22 <ehird> nc -e "taxi.exe tst.txt" irc.freenode.net 6667
19:11:33 <ais523> ehird: does that work?
19:11:37 <ais523> I thought that when I tried it it connects
19:11:41 <ais523> and then runs taxi, separately
19:11:54 <ehird> its how egobot works
19:11:56 -!- asiebot has joined.
19:12:00 <ehird> nc -e "./startEgoBot" blah
19:12:12 -!- thutubot has quit (Client Quit).
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19:13:43 <ehird> asiebot is just going from netcat
19:13:54 <asiebot> i told it to you. and yes, yes, yes, yesyesyesYES.
19:13:57 <thutubot> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ...too much output!
19:14:16 <ais523> almost works, but the out of time error message isn't coming up for some reason
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19:15:00 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
19:15:15 <ais523> asiebot: it isn't here atm
19:15:21 -!- asiekierka has joined.
19:15:23 <ais523> I'll bring it back though
19:15:39 -!- thutubot has joined.
19:15:52 <asiebot> wow, nc works more realibly than mIRC... somehow
19:16:19 <ais523> hmm... maybe I shouldn't have multiplied the timeout by 5, it slows things down a lot
19:16:27 <ais523> or maybe I should do it in something other than unary
19:16:29 -!- thutubot has quit (Client Quit).
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19:16:40 <ehird> ais523: gimme an esolang
19:17:44 <ais523> ehird: what in particular are you looking for?
19:17:54 <ehird> ais523: not a tarpit
19:17:56 <ehird> i wanna make an esobot
19:18:11 <ehird> my specialty "featureful esolang" is single-expression python
19:19:09 -!- thutubot has joined.
19:19:34 <ehird> asiekierka: just run it without the server
19:19:36 <ehird> and see what it outputs
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19:19:55 <asiekierka> taxi tst.txt | netcat niven.freenode.net 6667
19:20:10 <asiekierka> Only it does say :niven.freenode.net 376 asiebot :End of /MOTD command.
19:20:55 -!- thutubot has joined.
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19:21:05 <ehird> I love how he doesn't listen to us
19:21:11 <ehird> of course you can't get input from a one-way pipe
19:21:13 <ehird> that's why you use -e
19:21:15 -!- asiekierka has joined.
19:21:19 <ehird> I told you to use -e.
19:21:28 <ehird> netcat -e "taxi tst.txt" niven.freenodenet 6667
19:21:37 <thutubot> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ...out of time!
19:22:10 <ais523> +ul ((Hello, world! )S:^):^
19:22:10 <thutubot> Hello, world! Hello, world! Hello, world! Hello, world! Hello, world! Hello, world! Hello, world! Hello, world! Hello, world! Hello, world! Hello, world! Hello, world! Hello, world! Hello, world! Hello, world! Hello, world! ...too much output!
19:22:46 <ehird> That should output infinite S:^
19:22:53 <ais523> ehird: no it shouldn't
19:22:58 <thutubot> :S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^:S:^ ...too much output!
19:23:03 <ais523> do you see the difference?
19:23:33 <ais523> hmm... should that be an out of time?
19:24:24 <ais523> presumably it's a weird response to an out-of-stack thing
19:24:48 <ehird> asiekierka: DO THIS:
19:24:53 <ehird> nc -e "taxi tst.txt" irc.freenode.net 6667
19:24:55 <ais523> it loops as long as there are commands left in the program
19:25:02 <ais523> if there's out-of-stack-space, it can't run
19:25:37 <asiekierka> "NICK asiebot\r\nUSER asiebot asiebot asiebot :AsieBot!\r\nJOIN #esoteric" is waiting at the Writer's Depot.
19:25:37 <asiekierka> Go to the Writer's Depot: west 1st left, 1st right, 1st left, 1st right, 1st left, 2nd left.
19:25:37 <asiekierka> Pickup a passenger going to the Post Office.
19:25:37 <asiekierka> Go to the Post Office: east 1st right, 2nd right, 1st left.
19:26:02 <ais523> let me get a better error message for that case
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19:29:49 <ehird> then freenode kicked you off.
19:30:23 <ehird> 1. Their server would.
19:30:26 <ehird> 2. Your code is ufcked.
19:30:41 <ais523> ehird: my guess is that it isn't sending to Freenode from the Taxi program
19:30:46 <ais523> because -e isn't piping correctly
19:30:50 <ehird> ais523: asiekierka said that it ends the MOTD
19:30:52 <ehird> so it evidently is
19:32:09 <asiekierka> exec taxi tst.txt failed : No such file or directory
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19:32:48 <ehird> I need to paste this to asiekierka
19:32:54 <ais523> ehird: well, some of them are errors
19:32:54 <ehird> asiekierka: then use -e exec.bat
19:32:56 <ehird> asiekierka: exec.bat just has "taxi.exe thefile"
19:32:58 <ais523> and paste using a pastebin if needed
19:33:56 <ehird> nc -e ./exec.bat irc.freenode.net 6667
19:33:57 <asiekierka> exec.bat taxi tst.txt (exec.bat is %1 %2 %3... ...%9)
19:34:13 -!- thutubot has quit (Client Quit).
19:34:14 <ehird> just make exec.bat
19:34:20 <ehird> nc -e exec.bat irc.freenode.net 6667
19:34:39 -!- thutubot has joined.
19:34:58 <ais523> OK, I think thutubot's Underloadness is pretty good now
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19:35:38 <ais523> yes, I need to check against unbounded memory usage too
19:35:49 <ehird> nc -e exec.bat irc.freenode.net 6667
19:35:58 <ehird> just do -e exec.bat
19:38:45 <asiekierka> nc -e exec.bat ..... - immediate fail on localhost, fail on anything else
19:38:51 <asiekierka> nc listener on localhost - doesn't output anything
19:39:35 <ehird> ./taxi.exe tst.txt
19:39:47 <ehird> netcat -e ./exec.sh irc.freenode.net 6667
19:40:31 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)).
19:40:52 -!- asiekierka has joined.
19:41:27 <ehird> asiekierka: try just
19:41:33 <ehird> does it output the right stuff?
19:43:32 <ehird> asiekierka: when you do
19:43:51 <asiekierka> USER asiebot asiebot asiebot :AsieBot!
19:44:00 <asiekierka> Maybe it shouldn't be sent all at once
19:44:13 <ehird> nc -e ./exec.sh irc.freenode.net 6667
19:44:16 <ehird> it just sits there?
19:44:26 <ehird> its not meant to give any output
19:44:31 <ehird> Just run it like that for like 30 seconds
19:44:33 <ehird> and i bet it'll join here
19:44:44 <ehird> how long did you run it for
19:45:38 <ehird> It probably won't work if it's gone this far.
19:45:40 <ehird> asiekierka: just a sec
19:46:05 <ehird> asiekierka: I have an idea to test it
19:46:29 -!- thutubot has joined.
19:46:33 <ehird> asiekierka: when I say "just a sec wait"
19:46:40 <ais523> ehird: see if you can crash Thutubot
19:46:54 <ehird> +ul •ª•7•∞§å§§›Åfifl›§∞®§¶∞®∞›‹›Ÿ™°‡ÅÍÁÍ°·ÔÅÍؘˆÒÙıÔˆÛØÈÙ∏Ò∏ÅÍÒΔ∏ËÁ‰ÂÁÊ ‡°§•¶§¶•∑姕ºåß˙∂ª•∆ÈÔ°·ÅÍÎÁ°‡ÅÍÎ
19:47:06 <ehird> +ul (•ª•7•∞§å§§›Åfifl›§∞®§¶∞®∞›‹›Ÿ™°‡ÅÍÁÍ°·ÔÅÍؘˆÒÙıÔˆÛØÈÙ∏Ò∏ÅÍÒΔ∏ËÁ‰ÂÁÊ ‡°§•¶§¶•∑姕ºåß˙∂ª•∆ÈÔ°·ÅÍÎÁ°‡ÅÍÎ)ß“∂≠ø∑ªº¶•#™·‚µ¨º¨≤99S
19:47:23 <ehird> HA HA HA HA HA SO FUNNY.
19:47:25 <ais523> maybe I should have a ...no output!
19:47:28 <ais523> if there would be no output
19:47:42 <fizzie> ais523: Why bother, fungot doesn't do that either.
19:47:51 <fizzie> fungot: _Yes_, I'm sure. I wrote you!
19:47:51 <fungot> fizzie: sure. that's a press machine right? so i cannot test as i am
19:48:00 <fizzie> That thing is so uppity.
19:48:32 <fizzie> Incidentally, I was just watching fungot's console output, saw that ehird message, and thought it it had crasheded again since the message was just a mess.
19:50:05 <ehird> nc -e ./exec.sh 91.105.115.57 8080
19:50:09 <ehird> and i'll examine what it sends
19:50:40 <ehird> tell me when youve done that
19:51:03 <ais523> +ul ((:*)(::**))(:^:()~()~(((a(:^)*a(!!!!!!!!!^)~*^):^))~^a(((*)~a*^(((((1)S!^)((1)S!!^))~^)(!(((2)S!^)((2)S!!^))~^)(!!(((3)S!^)((3)S!!^))~^)(!!!(((4)S!^)((4)S!!^))~^)(!!!!(((5)S!^)((5)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!(((6)S!^)((6)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!(((7)S!^)((7)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!!(((8)S!^)((8)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!!!(((9)S!^)((9)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!!!!(((0)S!^)(()S!^))~^((a(:^)*a(!!!!!!!!!^)~*^):^)))~a(:^)*~^):^)~*^^^!^!^!^!^!^!!!!!!!!!!!!()~((0)S!)~^^*a~^a~!~*:( )S)::::::::********^
19:51:27 * ais523 increases the time limits
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19:51:40 <fizzie> ais523: Don't you have a reload command for it? :p
19:51:50 <ehird> asiekierka: OK, well.
19:52:00 <ehird> Netcat isnt sending anything
19:52:04 <ehird> asiekierka: Can you do
19:52:06 -!- thutubot has joined.
19:52:12 <ehird> go to http://rafb.net/paste
19:52:13 <ais523> fizzie: I have to recompile by hand
19:52:15 <ehird> paste in the output
19:52:16 <ais523> and Thutu can't do disk I/O
19:52:18 <ais523> +ul ((:*)(::**))(:^:()~()~(((a(:^)*a(!!!!!!!!!^)~*^):^))~^a(((*)~a*^(((((1)S!^)((1)S!!^))~^)(!(((2)S!^)((2)S!!^))~^)(!!(((3)S!^)((3)S!!^))~^)(!!!(((4)S!^)((4)S!!^))~^)(!!!!(((5)S!^)((5)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!(((6)S!^)((6)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!(((7)S!^)((7)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!!(((8)S!^)((8)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!!!(((9)S!^)((9)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!!!!(((0)S!^)(()S!^))~^((a(:^)*a(!!!!!!!!!^)~*^):^)))~a(:^)*~^):^)~*^^^!^!^!^!^!^!!!!!!!!!!!!()~((0)S!)~^^*a~^a~!~*:( )S)::::::::********^
19:52:19 <ehird> and then give me the link?
19:52:48 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | ahh.
19:53:21 <ais523> I think I'll get the timeout to work in binary rather than unary
19:53:24 <ais523> that'll be a lot faster
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19:53:46 <ehird> asiekierka: OK, lemme think
19:53:56 <ehird> asiekierka: Can you modify your bot so
19:53:58 <ehird> when it sends out a line
19:54:01 <ehird> it first prints it to the screen?
19:54:13 <ehird> If you can't print to stderr, can you print to files?
19:54:20 <ehird> If so, make it print what it sends to the server to log.txt
19:54:24 <ehird> Then we can see what the problem is
19:54:48 <ehird> Does it have files?
19:54:53 <ehird> Then just make it print it to log.txt
19:55:11 <ehird> I'm not sure, then
19:55:13 <asiekierka> I'm looking now for a native windows netcat
19:55:14 <ehird> netcat should be working
19:55:21 <ehird> It won't change anything
19:55:41 <Asztal> Extend it with a Sawmill :P
19:55:46 <ehird> nc -e ./foo.sh 91.105.115.57 8080
19:55:49 <ehird> asiekierka: do that
19:55:54 <ehird> i'll see what it does
19:56:01 <ehird> [ehird:~] % ruby server.rb
19:56:02 <ehird> server.rb:5:in `gets': Connection reset by peer (Errno::ECONNRESET)
19:56:10 <ehird> and the taxi works
19:56:13 <ehird> but netcat<->taxi doesn't
19:56:23 <ehird> did you compile your taxi with cygwin?
19:56:31 <ehird> if not, remove your compiled taxi and recompile it inside cygwin
19:56:38 <ehird> and it should work fine
19:57:00 <ehird> g++ -o taxi taxi.cpp
19:57:05 <ehird> then run netcat again
19:57:24 <asiekierka> The only problem is that i did not install g++ :P
19:57:34 <ehird> Just run setup.exe again
19:57:37 <ehird> it'll just update it
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19:59:29 <ais523> +ul ((:*)(::**))(:^:()~()~(((a(:^)*a(!!!!!!!!!^)~*^):^))~^a(((*)~a*^(((((1)S!^)((1)S!!^))~^)(!(((2)S!^)((2)S!!^))~^)(!!(((3)S!^)((3)S!!^))~^)(!!!(((4)S!^)((4)S!!^))~^)(!!!!(((5)S!^)((5)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!(((6)S!^)((6)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!(((7)S!^)((7)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!!(((8)S!^)((8)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!!!(((9)S!^)((9)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!!!!(((0)S!^)(()S!^))~^((a(:^)*a(!!!!!!!!!^)~*^):^)))~a(:^)*~^):^)~*^^^!^!^!^!^!^!!!!!!!!!!!!()~((0)S!)~^^*a~^a~!~*:( )S)::::::::********^
19:59:46 <ehird> ais523: I am making my wonderful 'single-expression irc bot python wonder !!'
20:00:05 <ais523> actually, let me test it on some simpler expressions first, with a shorter timeout
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20:00:33 <ais523> ehird: which languages will it interpret?
20:00:43 <ehird> but it will be written in one expression of python
20:00:55 <ehird> fucking neighbours and their FUCKING FIREWORKS
20:00:58 <ais523> +ul (1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S(1)S
20:00:58 <thutubot> 111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111111 ...out of time!
20:01:12 <thutubot> xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx ...out of time!
20:01:26 <ais523> +ul ((:*)(::**))(:^:()~()~(((a(:^)*a(!!!!!!!!!^)~*^):^))~^a(((*)~a*^(((((1)S!^)((1)S!!^))~^)(!(((2)S!^)((2)S!!^))~^)(!!(((3)S!^)((3)S!!^))~^)(!!!(((4)S!^)((4)S!!^))~^)(!!!!(((5)S!^)((5)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!(((6)S!^)((6)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!(((7)S!^)((7)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!!(((8)S!^)((8)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!!!(((9)S!^)((9)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!!!!(((0)S!^)(()S!^))~^((a(:^)*a(!!!!!!!!!^)~*^):^)))~a(:^)*~^):^)~*^^^!^!^!^!^!^!!!!!!!!!!!!()~((0)S!)~^^*a~^a~!~*:( )S)::::::::********^
20:01:36 <ais523> ok, I'll notch the timeout up a bit
20:01:38 -!- thutubot has quit (Client Quit).
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20:02:08 <ais523> +ul ((:*)(::**))(:^:()~()~(((a(:^)*a(!!!!!!!!!^)~*^):^))~^a(((*)~a*^(((((1)S!^)((1)S!!^))~^)(!(((2)S!^)((2)S!!^))~^)(!!(((3)S!^)((3)S!!^))~^)(!!!(((4)S!^)((4)S!!^))~^)(!!!!(((5)S!^)((5)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!(((6)S!^)((6)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!(((7)S!^)((7)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!!(((8)S!^)((8)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!!!(((9)S!^)((9)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!!!!(((0)S!^)(()S!^))~^((a(:^)*a(!!!!!!!!!^)~*^):^)))~a(:^)*~^):^)~*^^^!^!^!^!^!^!!!!!!!!!!!!()~((0)S!)~^^*a~^a~!~*:( )S)::::::::********^
20:02:12 <thutubot> 3 6 18 108 ...too much memory used!
20:02:29 <asiekierka> 27% (i srsly don't know why i chose to add fortran, d and ada too :P)
20:02:36 <ais523> +ul ((:*)(::**))(:^:()~()~(((a(:^)*a(!!!!!!!!!^)~*^):^))~^a(((*)~a*^(((((1)S!^)((1)S!!^))~^)(!(((2)S!^)((2)S!!^))~^)(!!(((3)S!^)((3)S!!^))~^)(!!!(((4)S!^)((4)S!!^))~^)(!!!!(((5)S!^)((5)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!(((6)S!^)((6)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!(((7)S!^)((7)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!!(((8)S!^)((8)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!!!(((9)S!^)((9)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!!!!(((0)S!^)(()S!^))~^((a(:^)*a(!!!!!!!!!^)~*^):^)))~a(:^)*~^):^)~*^^^!^!^!^!^!^!!!!!!!!!!!!()~((0)S!)~^^*a~^a~!~*:( )S)::::****^
20:02:39 <thutubot> 3 6 18 108 ...too much memory used!
20:03:19 <ais523> +ul ((:*)(::**))(:^:()~()~(((a(:^)*a(!!!!!!!!!^)~*^):^))~^a(((*)~a*^(((((1)S!^)((1)S!!^))~^)(!(((2)S!^)((2)S!!^))~^)(!!(((3)S!^)((3)S!!^))~^)(!!!(((4)S!^)((4)S!!^))~^)(!!!!(((5)S!^)((5)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!(((6)S!^)((6)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!(((7)S!^)((7)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!!(((8)S!^)((8)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!!!(((9)S!^)((9)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!!!!(((0)S!^)(()S!^))~^((a(:^)*a(!!!!!!!!!^)~*^):^)))~a(:^)*~^):^)~*^^^!^!^!^!^!^!!!!!!!!!!!!()~((0)S!)~^^*a~^a~!~*:( )S:^):^
20:03:48 <ais523> +ul ()(~:()~()~(((a(:^)*a(!!!!!!!!!^)~*^):^))~^a(((*)~a*^(((((1)S!^)((1)S!!^))~^)(!(((2)S!^)((2)S!!^))~^)(!!(((3)S!^)((3)S!!^))~^)(!!!(((4)S!^)((4)S!!^))~^)(!!!!(((5)S!^)((5)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!(((6)S!^)((6)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!(((7)S!^)((7)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!!(((8)S!^)((8)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!!!(((9)S!^)((9)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!!!!(((0)S!^)(!^))~^((a(:^)*a(!!!!!!!!!^)~*^):^)))~a(:^)*~^):^)~*^^^!^!^!^!^!^!!!!!!!!!!!!()~((0)S!)~^^(:)~*(*)*( )S~:^):^
20:03:52 <thutubot> 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 ...out of time!
20:04:08 <ais523> (not sure what the program before was doing, btw)
20:04:16 <ais523> I'll up the timeout some more
20:04:20 -!- thutubot has quit (Remote closed the connection).
20:04:46 -!- thutubot has joined.
20:04:52 <ais523> +ul ()(~:()~()~(((a(:^)*a(!!!!!!!!!^)~*^):^))~^a(((*)~a*^(((((1)S!^)((1)S!!^))~^)(!(((2)S!^)((2)S!!^))~^)(!!(((3)S!^)((3)S!!^))~^)(!!!(((4)S!^)((4)S!!^))~^)(!!!!(((5)S!^)((5)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!(((6)S!^)((6)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!(((7)S!^)((7)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!!(((8)S!^)((8)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!!!(((9)S!^)((9)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!!!!(((0)S!^)(!^))~^((a(:^)*a(!!!!!!!!!^)~*^):^)))~a(:^)*~^):^)~*^^^!^!^!^!^!^!!!!!!!!!!!!()~((0)S!)~^^(:)~*(*)*( )S~:^):^
20:05:21 <thutubot> 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 8 ...too much output!
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20:07:18 <ehird> (lambda f: (lambda x: f(x(lambda y: x(y))))(lambda x: f(x(x))))
20:07:52 <fizzie> Hay, does it use the same sort of message?
20:08:21 <ais523> hmm... that should have errored
20:08:26 <ais523> instead I got "No text to send"
20:08:27 <fizzie> Your output message is different, though, I think I just used three dots.
20:08:34 <fungot> ............................................................................................................................................................................................................... ...
20:08:47 <thutubot> ................................................................................................................................ ...too much output!
20:09:39 <ais523> it's nice to have two working esobots, though
20:10:00 <optbot> thutubot: you are new here?
20:10:07 <ais523> +ul (^echochohoo optbot)S
20:10:08 <optbot> ais523: I run code from URLs too!
20:10:08 <optbot> thutubot: it should have been a literal \cx
20:10:08 <optbot> fungot: i'm just kidding
20:10:08 <fungot> optbot: it turns ou that the code will be written
20:10:09 <optbot> fungot: NOBODY LIKES ME EVERYBODY HATES ME GUESS I'LL GO EAT WORMS.
20:10:09 <fungot> optbot: it is because the empty list is ()
20:10:09 <optbot> fungot: not sure if tr in perl can be used functionally. but perhaps (($2=~y/.../.../),$2) will work
20:10:10 <fungot> optbot: why move right, instead of creating /usr/ local/ bin
20:10:10 <optbot> fungot: I thought ; was for function sequencinging kind of things?
20:10:10 <fungot> optbot: ' formal parameters.
20:10:11 <optbot> fungot: Yeah. Supposedly more ``clean'', and yet they support a ? b : c
20:10:21 <ais523> <optbot> thutubot: you are new here?
20:10:33 <ais523> +ul (Not new, I was here a while ago, but you didn't see me then)S
20:10:33 <thutubot> Not new, I was here a while ago, but you didn't see me then
20:10:54 <fizzie> ais523: So, want to generate a bot-loop between those? All you need is a sort-of-a two-stage quine where stage one in underload outputs "^bf" plus stage two in brainfuck, which then outputs "+ul" plus stage one again.
20:11:25 <ais523> ah, I'll think about it
20:11:31 <ais523> BF and UL are pretty different so it wouldn't be trivial
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20:11:52 <fungot> echo reverb rev bf rot13 hi rev2 fib wc xaa enctst copy badrot13 chtopic top topiccode compat_cat trulyawfulrot13 rot26 me echochohoo lolercakes echo_cho_ho_o baddoubles ul
20:12:29 <ais523> +ul ((^copy +ul )SaS(:^)S):^
20:12:29 <thutubot> ^copy +ul ((^copy +ul )SaS(:^)S):^
20:12:29 <fungot> +ul ((^copy +ul )SaS(:^)S):^
20:12:29 <thutubot> ^copy +ul ((^copy +ul )SaS(:^)S):^
20:12:30 <fungot> +ul ((^copy +ul )SaS(:^)S):^
20:12:30 <thutubot> ^copy +ul ((^copy +ul )SaS(:^)S):^
20:12:30 <fungot> +ul ((^copy +ul )SaS(:^)S):^
20:12:31 <thutubot> ^copy +ul ((^copy +ul )SaS(:^)S):^
20:12:31 <fungot> +ul ((^copy +ul )SaS(:^)S):^
20:12:32 <thutubot> ^copy +ul ((^copy +ul )SaS(:^)S):^
20:12:32 <fungot> +ul ((^copy +ul )SaS(:^)S):^
20:12:33 <thutubot> ^copy +ul ((^copy +ul )SaS(:^)S):^
20:12:33 <fungot> +ul ((^copy +ul )SaS(:^)S):^
20:12:33 <thutubot> ^copy +ul ((^copy +ul )SaS(:^)S):^
20:12:33 <fungot> +ul ((^copy +ul )SaS(:^)S):^
20:12:34 <thutubot> ^copy +ul ((^copy +ul )SaS(:^)S):^
20:12:34 <fungot> +ul ((^copy +ul )SaS(:^)S):^
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20:13:16 <fizzie> ais523: I would've rather liked to see a real brainfuck/underload hybrid-quine, but I have to admit that that was probably simpler.
20:13:44 <ais523> yes, a hybrid-quine would be pretty tricky between those two langs
20:13:49 <fizzie> Although I guess you could've just made an underload quine that prepends "^bf ,[.,]!" -- no-one said you can't use input.
20:14:03 -!- oepy has joined.
20:14:07 <ais523> +ul ((^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S):^
20:14:07 <thutubot> ^bf ,[.,]!+ul ((^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S):^
20:14:07 <fungot> +ul ((^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S):^
20:14:08 <thutubot> ^bf ,[.,]!+ul ((^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S):^
20:14:08 <fungot> +ul ((^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S):^
20:14:08 <thutubot> ^bf ,[.,]!+ul ((^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S):^
20:14:09 <fungot> +ul ((^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S):^
20:14:09 <thutubot> ^bf ,[.,]!+ul ((^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S):^
20:14:09 <fungot> +ul ((^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S):^
20:14:10 <thutubot> ^bf ,[.,]!+ul ((^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S):^
20:14:10 <fungot> +ul ((^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S):^
20:14:11 <thutubot> ^bf ,[.,]!+ul ((^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S):^
20:14:11 <fungot> +ul ((^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S):^
20:14:11 <thutubot> ^bf ,[.,]!+ul ((^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S):^
20:14:12 <fungot> +ul ((^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S):^
20:14:12 <thutubot> ^bf ,[.,]!+ul ((^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S):^
20:14:13 <fungot> +ul ((^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S):^
20:14:13 <thutubot> ^bf ,[.,]!+ul ((^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S):^
20:14:14 <fungot> +ul ((^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S):^
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20:14:55 <fizzie> I think I'll move that "at most four commands from any one user" from the babbling part to a higher level so that it just can't loop unless you involve a third esobot in it.
20:15:10 <ais523> I should have a +ignorenext command or something
20:15:19 <ais523> to help avoid that sort of loop
20:15:33 <ais523> +ul ((^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
20:15:33 <thutubot> ^bf ,[.,]!+ul ((^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
20:15:34 <optbot> ais523: AP sucks, it screwed me into taking more advanced (and degree-unrelated) science in college than I would have had to otherwise.
20:15:34 <fungot> +ul ((^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
20:15:34 <optbot> thutubot: so nop is a bad and space wasting idea
20:15:34 <optbot> fungot: It took me a moment to realise that was what you were saying was wonderful
20:15:34 <thutubot> ^bf ,[.,]!+ul ((^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
20:15:34 <fungot> +ul ((^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
20:15:35 <optbot> fungot: OK, time for a stylistic argument
20:15:35 <thutubot> ^bf ,[.,]!+ul ((^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
20:15:35 <fungot> +ul ((^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
20:15:35 <optbot> thutubot: i figured it was a much stronger result to be able to duplicate existing techniques with the machinery than to just layer another abstraction on top
20:15:36 <thutubot> ^bf ,[.,]!+ul ((^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
20:15:36 <fungot> +ul ((^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
20:15:37 <thutubot> ^bf ,[.,]!+ul ((^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
20:15:37 <fungot> +ul ((^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
20:15:37 <thutubot> ^bf ,[.,]!+ul ((^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
20:15:38 <fungot> +ul ((^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
20:15:38 <optbot> fungot: ah you mean the game
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20:15:44 <optbot> thutubot: cctoide : Well, you know what would be better than the Steam system?
20:15:46 <optbot> fungot: I'm working on implementing it in Python
20:15:48 <optbot> thutubot: too many domains are taken
20:15:54 <ais523> fizzie: pretty trivially beaten anywya
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20:16:27 <fizzie> Oh, right, the optbot babble would count since there's that "fungot:" prefix.
20:16:28 <fungot> fizzie: so what are you doing that you have seen it
20:16:28 <optbot> fizzie: ofc, this makes no sense
20:18:58 <fizzie> Although optbot's so slow in responding that it is possible the flood-protection might've kicked in already. At least there above I think fungot would've ignored that last ^bf command.
20:18:58 <fungot> fizzie: does scheme feature anything similar to this
20:19:07 <fizzie> optbot: Glad you like it.
20:19:07 <optbot> fizzie: and what should happen in such cases
20:19:47 <fizzie> Or maybe not. I guess it was the fourth and not the fifth command.
20:20:35 <fizzie> I guess it just needs a brain so that it can get bored easily.
20:23:05 -!- oepy has joined.
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20:23:58 <ehird> oepy: You consist of one expression of Python. Don't you feel cute and small?
20:24:04 <ehird> Ok, who just /msg'd it.
20:24:07 <fizzie> At least it seems happy enough.
20:24:14 <ehird> the little 'hi's are so cute.
20:24:23 <ehird> ok, we're going down for maintanence oepy
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20:24:25 <fizzie> oepy: You're like a little twittering bird.
20:24:37 <ehird> fizzie: a bird with a miniscule attention span, evidently
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20:24:49 <oklopol> ehird: i have a one-expression python bot that does bf, therefore i win
20:25:10 <ehird> also hopefully extensible
20:25:17 <oklopol> oepy is such a cute name i literally licked the screen when i first saw it
20:27:50 <asiekierka> bash-3.2$ ./nc -e ./exec.sh irc.freenode.net 6667
20:27:59 <ehird> asiekierka: you recompiled taxi?
20:28:20 <ais523> ehird: let me try netcat -e
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20:29:36 <ais523> ah, it does seem to work for me
20:29:55 -!- ais523 has changed nick to ais523_.
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20:29:58 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523.
20:30:07 <ais523> hmm... probably I should make it so other people can't get it to quit
20:31:57 <ehird> ais523: pick oepy's command prefix
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20:32:49 <asiekierka> And i'm still trying to fix netcat/taxi
20:32:57 <asiekierka> netcat alone works, taxi/cygwin also works
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20:34:45 <fizzie> ais523: What's that about []<> being reserved in Underload? Do they have a use?
20:35:03 <ais523> fizzie: they were reserved in Overload
20:35:07 <ais523> they don't have a use in Underload
20:35:22 <ais523> but <> is a different type of grouping construct in Overload
20:35:28 <ais523> and [] is for pragmas and comments and such
20:35:48 <fizzie> I should write that Funge-98 interpreter for it.
20:36:15 <ais523> asiekierka: I just treat [<>] as ordinary characters in Thutubot
20:37:07 <ais523> +ul ()(~:()~()~(((a(:^)*a(!!!!!!!!!^)~*^):^))~^a(((*)~a*^(((((1)S!^)((1)S!!^))~^)(!(((2)S!^)((2)S!!^))~^)(!!(((3)S!^)((3)S!!^))~^)(!!!(((4)S!^)((4)S!!^))~^)(!!!!(((5)S!^)((5)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!(((6)S!^)((6)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!(((7)S!^)((7)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!!(((8)S!^)((8)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!!!(((9)S!^)((9)S!!^))~^)(!!!!!!!!!(((0)S!^)(!^))~^((a(:^)*a(!!!!!!!!!^)~*^):^)))~a(:^)*~^):^)~*^^^!^!^!^!^!^!!!!!!!!!!!!()~((0)S!)~^^(:)~*(*)*( )S~:^):^
20:37:11 <asiekierka> I'll try with the native windows version
20:37:32 <thutubot> 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 21 22 23 24 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 32 33 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 41 42 43 44 45 46 47 48 49 50 51 52 53 54 55 56 57 58 59 60 61 62 63 64 65 66 67 68 69 70 71 72 73 74 75 76 77 78 79 80 81 82 83 84 85 86 87 88 8 ...too much output!
20:37:43 -!- oepy has joined.
20:37:57 <ais523> ehird: get oepy to say +hello
20:38:07 <ais523> and I can't remember offhand
20:38:15 <fizzie> No, \w is alphabetics, digits and underline.
20:38:16 <ais523> I think \w is [a-zA-Z_0-9]
20:38:25 <fizzie> \S is "not whitespace".
20:39:47 <fizzie> It's funny how "a word character" contains _. Slightly programmer-oriented; I don't think "normal" people use _ in words very often.
20:39:47 <asiekierka> NC native for NT crashed when i quit the NC monitor.
20:40:04 -!- oepy has quit (Remote closed the connection).
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20:40:39 <ais523> ehird: is :) your command marker/
20:40:40 <ehird> r':([^!]+)\S* PRIVMSG #esoteric :\(:([^ ]+)(.*)'
20:40:44 <ehird> any flaw with that?
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20:40:53 <Deewiant> fizzie: yes, normal people would use "-" for instance, which in turn /isn't/ a "word character"
20:40:55 <fizzie> It says (: there, not :).
20:40:58 <asiekierka> chat.freenode.net [64.161.254.20] 6667 (?) ope
20:41:12 <ais523> ehird: yes, you got the smiley backwards
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20:41:14 <asiekierka> that's what it says with ultra-verbose at the end of nativeNC/mingwTaxi
20:41:14 <fizzie> And even with a space after it.
20:41:27 <fizzie> Oh, it was not-a-space, not a space. Anyway.
20:41:56 <asiekierka> Hmm, something different in NCcygwin/Taxicygwin
20:42:14 -!- oepy has joined.
20:42:20 <asiekierka> it says : Operation now in progress after the open line
20:42:40 <oepy> ehird hi ('test',)
20:42:45 <oepy> ehird poop ('machine!!',)
20:42:51 <oepy> ehird hi ('test',)
20:42:56 <oepy> asiekierka test
20:42:58 <ehird> :)hi test my poop machine yo
20:42:58 <oepy> ehird hi ('test', 'my', 'poop', 'machine', 'yo')
20:43:01 <oepy> asiekierka rocks
20:43:04 <ehird> :)hi test my poop machine yo
20:43:04 <oepy> ehird hi ('test', 'my', 'poop', 'machine', '', '', '', '', '', 'yo')
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20:43:56 -!- oepy has joined.
20:44:03 <oepy> ehird poop ('machine', 'a')
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20:44:50 <ehird> :)pooping all over the butt machine
20:44:51 <oepy> ehird pooping ('all', 'over', 'the', 'butt', 'machine') ( all over the butt machine
20:47:29 <ihope> :)the quick brown fox jumps under the lazy dog
20:47:30 <fizzie> Gneh, fungot has some hardwired brainfuck assumptions that need fixing if I want to add another language. For one thing, it thinks all (prepared) program data consists of pairs of cells, only the first of which is used to check where the program ends.
20:47:30 <fungot> fizzie: hi mad, and welcome :))
20:47:30 <oepy> ihope the ('quick', 'brown', 'fox', 'jumps', 'under', 'the', 'lazy', 'dog') ( quick brown fox jumps under the lazy dog
20:47:43 <fizzie> fungot: I'm not mad! Who you're calling mad?!
20:47:43 <fungot> fizzie: fnord is creepy also. it's nietzsche..
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20:51:10 <asiekierka> Argh! No, Taxi doesn't work. The only way i could get it to work is by using real Linux
20:51:29 -!- oepy has joined.
20:51:33 <oepy> (['a', 'b\r'],)
20:51:37 <oepy> (['a', 'b', 'c', 'd\r'],)
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20:51:58 -!- oepy has joined.
20:52:02 <oepy> (['a', 'b', 'c', 'd'],)
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20:52:15 <Deewiant> asiekierka: what are you doing/trying to do?
20:52:38 <asiekierka> Run Taxi through netcat on this channel using Windows/Cygwin
20:52:42 -!- oepy has joined.
20:52:44 <ehird> :)echo fancy butt machine
20:52:44 <oepy> fancy butt machine
20:55:14 <ehird> ais523: what should I add to oepy
20:56:04 <Deewiant> if you're just running taxi | nc or something
20:56:18 <Deewiant> then it could be the | that's causing the buffering
20:57:34 <Deewiant> well, it looks like it's not interactive
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20:57:46 <Deewiant> in which case if taxi terminates that's not the problem
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20:58:28 <Deewiant> if you're keeping it alive it might be buffering stuff
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21:00:25 <oklopol> on #sex, there used to be tons of ya bots
21:00:31 <oklopol> i could just ya with them all day long
21:00:38 <Asztal> COOL COOL COOL COOL ALL AROUND THE TABLE :DDDDDDDDD
21:02:39 <ehird> ^echo :)echo ^echo :)echo
21:02:39 <fungot> :)echo ^echo :)echo :)echo ^echo :)echo
21:02:40 <oepy> ^echo :)echo :)echo ^echo :)echo
21:02:40 <fungot> :)echo :)echo ^echo :)echo :)echo :)echo ^echo :)echo
21:02:40 <oepy> :)echo ^echo :)echo :)echo :)echo ^echo :)echo
21:02:45 <ehird> ^echo :)echo ^echo :)echo
21:02:45 <fungot> :)echo ^echo :)echo :)echo ^echo :)echo
21:02:46 <oepy> ^echo :)echo :)echo ^echo :)echo
21:02:46 <fungot> :)echo :)echo ^echo :)echo :)echo :)echo ^echo :)echo
21:02:47 <oepy> :)echo ^echo :)echo :)echo :)echo ^echo :)echo
21:03:15 <ehird> ^echo :)echo ^echo :)echo
21:03:15 <fungot> :)echo ^echo :)echo :)echo ^echo :)echo
21:03:16 <oepy> ^echo :)echo :)echo ^echo :)echo
21:03:16 <fungot> :)echo :)echo ^echo :)echo :)echo :)echo ^echo :)echo
21:03:17 <oepy> :)echo ^echo :)echo :)echo :)echo ^echo :)echo
21:03:55 <ehird> ais523: suggest a command
21:04:29 <ais523> +ul ((:)echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
21:04:29 <optbot> ais523: there is not append
21:04:30 <thutubot> {{:}}echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul ...a out of stack!
21:04:50 <ais523> ugh, can't do unmatched () in Underload
21:04:55 <ais523> so there goes my botloop
21:05:15 <ehird> i'll give it a nicer prefix
21:05:38 <ehird> something happier...
21:05:45 -!- oepy has quit (Remote closed the connection).
21:05:55 -!- oepy has joined.
21:05:59 <ais523> ehird: get ready to get oepy to quit by the way, to end the loop
21:06:10 <ais523> +ul ((*echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
21:06:10 <thutubot> *echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul ((*echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
21:06:10 <oepy> ^bf ,[.,]!+ul ((*echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
21:06:11 <optbot> thutubot: hi RodgerTheGreat
21:06:11 <optbot> oepy: ~pexec self.raw("PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo")
21:06:11 <fungot> +ul ((*echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
21:06:11 <thutubot> *echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul ((*echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
21:06:12 <oepy> ^bf ,[.,]!+ul ((*echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
21:06:12 <optbot> thutubot: maybe ubuntu's is different
21:06:12 <fungot> optbot: like the man said, " enough features to write a
21:06:12 <fungot> +ul ((*echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
21:06:12 <thutubot> *echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul ((*echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
21:06:13 <optbot> fungot: with goto, you specify the label, not have it specified for you
21:06:13 <oepy> ^bf ,[.,]!+ul ((*echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
21:06:13 <fungot> +ul ((*echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
21:06:13 <fungot> optbot: because it's like lisp macro expansion
21:06:13 <thutubot> *echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul ((*echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
21:06:13 <ehird> totally unaware and happy
21:06:14 <oepy> ^bf ,[.,]!+ul ((*echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
21:06:14 <fungot> +ul ((*echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
21:06:15 <thutubot> *echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul ((*echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
21:06:15 <oepy> ^bf ,[.,]!+ul ((*echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
21:06:15 <optbot> fungot: unit is just there for.. mathematical nicety, I guess.
21:06:15 <fungot> +ul ((*echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
21:06:15 <thutubot> *echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul ((*echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
21:06:15 <fungot> optbot: wordnet is nice, but there were real operating systems.
21:06:16 <oepy> ^bf ,[.,]!+ul ((*echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
21:06:17 <optbot> thutubot: 10 GreaseMonkey: daemon idle_10 bf8
21:06:17 <fungot> +ul ((*echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
21:06:17 <thutubot> *echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul ((*echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
21:06:18 <oepy> ^bf ,[.,]!+ul ((*echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
21:06:19 <fungot> +ul ((*echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
21:06:19 <thutubot> *echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul ((*echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
21:06:20 <oepy> ^bf ,[.,]!+ul ((*echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
21:06:21 <optbot> fungot: it'd need to be the rest of memory.. take input for an example of that
21:06:21 <fungot> +ul ((*echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
21:06:21 <thutubot> *echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul ((*echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
21:06:22 <oepy> ^bf ,[.,]!+ul ((*echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
21:06:23 <optbot> fungot: we should get our own geordi going...
21:06:23 <fungot> optbot: if pc-increment! pc-decrement! are sufficiently trivial, scheme48 will suffice.
21:06:24 <ehird> let's just run this for a bit
21:06:25 <optbot> thutubot: i only wanna ban everyone for a second, lament
21:06:25 <fungot> +ul ((*echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
21:06:25 <thutubot> *echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul ((*echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
21:06:26 <oepy> ^bf ,[.,]!+ul ((*echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
21:06:26 -!- optbot has quit (Excess Flood).
21:06:27 <fungot> +ul ((*echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
21:06:27 <thutubot> *echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul ((*echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
21:06:27 <oepy> ^bf ,[.,]!+ul ((*echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
21:06:29 <fungot> +ul ((*echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
21:06:29 <thutubot> *echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul ((*echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
21:06:30 <oepy> ^bf ,[.,]!+ul ((*echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
21:06:31 <fungot> +ul ((*echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
21:06:31 <thutubot> *echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul ((*echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
21:06:32 <oepy> ^bf ,[.,]!+ul ((*echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
21:06:33 <fungot> +ul ((*echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
21:06:34 <thutubot> *echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul ((*echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
21:06:34 <oepy> ^bf ,[.,]!+ul ((*echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
21:06:34 -!- thutubot has quit ("ThutuBot quitting").
21:06:34 <ehird> now the rest will decay
21:06:35 <fungot> +ul ((*echo ^bf ,[.,]!+ul )SaS(:^)S(optbot)!):^
21:06:41 <ehird> you should have let them go naturally
21:06:46 <ais523> the loop works even without optbot
21:06:53 <ehird> they will all flood themselves to death
21:07:06 -!- optbot has joined.
21:07:06 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | idea! write an optimizing axo compiler.
21:07:46 -!- thutubot has joined.
21:08:29 <ehird> who wants my current source
21:08:33 -!- rodgort has quit (Remote closed the connection).
21:08:42 <ehird> http://rafb.net/p/KhFMTZ61.html
21:09:31 -!- rodgort has joined.
21:09:34 <ais523> Thutubot's is up on eso-std
21:09:38 <ais523> but not online yet because you haven't added it
21:09:48 <ehird> mine has a nice 'shape' to it
21:10:57 <fizzie> Mine has a triangle in it.
21:14:27 <Asztal> yes, I wondered what that triangle was for
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21:14:54 -!- oepy has joined.
21:14:55 <ehird> *rot13 YO YO IN DA HOUSE
21:14:55 -!- oepy has quit (Remote closed the connection).
21:15:19 -!- oepy has joined.
21:15:20 <ehird> *rot13 YO YO IN DA HOUSE
21:15:21 <oepy> YO YO IN DA HOUSE
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21:22:16 <AnMaster> I just got an idea for an encryption scheme. It probably got some issue that makes it insecure
21:22:40 <AnMaster> well first you select a good PRNG algorithm.
21:22:49 <AnMaster> Then you in some way generate a seed that is random
21:23:02 -!- asiekierka has quit (Connection timed out).
21:23:16 <AnMaster> now you use this good PRNG to generate a one time crypto, starting at the seed you generated.
21:23:35 <AnMaster> now you use a real one-time-pad to encrypt the *seed*
21:23:47 <AnMaster> then you put that encrypted seed at the front of the message
21:24:00 <ais523> well, the issue is that no PRNG is good enough
21:24:12 <ais523> or the ones that are, are used like that already
21:24:14 <AnMaster> the receiver can then decrypt the seed using his one time pad copy
21:25:10 <AnMaster> ais523, But aren't there some very good PRNG iirc?
21:25:43 <AnMaster> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blum_Blum_Shub#Security
21:28:42 <comex> one-time pads are only secure because every possible message will be generated by attempting to bruteforce the key
21:28:48 <AnMaster> ais523, but if the PRNG is good enough, would it be as secure as using a true one-time-key?
21:29:01 <comex> if you reduce it to 32-bits or whatever, then all you have to do is test each value and see if it makes a vaguely recognizable message
21:29:05 <ais523> it never could be as good
21:29:23 <ais523> you could brute-force it based on the amount of internal state in the PRNG
21:29:29 <ais523> thus you couldn't send a message that was too long
21:29:49 <comex> eh, I think most good prngs have a period wayy longer than most messages
21:30:23 <AnMaster> comex, maybe someone want to encrypt all of Tolkin's books? ;P
21:30:30 <ais523> even so, you'd probably need a number of bits in the period greater than the number of possible messages
21:30:42 <ais523> e.g. if it was a 32-bit prng, you could only send a 5-bit message
21:30:44 <ais523> or something like that
21:30:59 <ais523> or brute-forcing would work
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21:31:41 <comex> AnMaster: Mersenne Twister has a period of 2^19937 - 1
21:31:45 -!- Leonidas has joined.
21:31:56 <comex> which is... uh... big
21:38:34 -!- Slereah_ has joined.
21:40:51 <fizzie> Using a PRNG to generate a xor pad pretty much means just turning the PRNG into a stream cipher; the size of the seed is then the cipher key size.
21:45:02 <fizzie> Cryptographically secure PRNGs pretty much seem to be usually implemented using other cryptographic primitives, anyway; like hash functions or just running a block cipher on a counter value. Blum Blum Shub is the odd one, though.
21:49:07 <fizzie> Why is there always a zero in the fungot state file on the next line after the command name... wait, that's the language specifier, 0 means brainfuck.
21:49:07 <fungot> fizzie: always reinventing myself. i should wake
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22:20:38 <ais523> maybe I should write a rot13 in Thutu
22:20:52 <ais523> but it would be a pain as Thutu has no equivalent to q///
22:20:55 -!- oepy has joined.
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22:21:56 <ais523> how can you try to write a rot13 and end up writing a rot6?
22:22:29 -!- oepy has joined.
22:22:41 <ehird> ord(x) instead of alphabet.index(x)
22:23:10 <ehird> *rot13 Hello, world!
22:23:15 <ehird> *rot13 Uryyb, jbeyq!
22:25:21 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:25:25 -!- puzzlet has joined.
22:25:33 <ehird> ais523: want the crazy current source?
22:25:41 <ehird> Single expression python is easy once you get used to it
22:25:53 <ais523> besides, I've written single expression C
22:26:03 <ehird> ais523: http://rafb.net/p/8gjbwT69.html
22:26:09 <ehird> Actually, it makes my coding style a bit better.
22:26:21 <ehird> Since you can't trivially add variables, it stays clean (well, as clean as single-expr python can be)
22:26:33 <ais523> btw, is single-expression-Python whitespace-sensitive?
22:26:44 <ais523> if it isn't that's an even better reason to write Python programs in one expression
22:27:04 <ais523> oepy: say hi to optbot
22:27:05 <optbot> ais523: PLEASE DO IRP IN #irp.
22:27:39 <ehird> there's nothing wrong with whitespace sensitivity.
22:27:50 <optbot> oepy: Almost Carrollian.
22:27:51 <optbot> oepy: ...in an extremely painful and weird way
22:27:52 <optbot> oepy: ((lambda 3 1 ((closure-ref (get-num-arg 1) 0) (get-num-arg 1) (closure (lambda 2 3 ((lambda 1 1 ((closure-ref (get-num-arg 1) 0) (get-num-arg 1) (get-num-arg 3))) (get-num-arg 2)))))) (closure (lambda 4 2 (%halt (get-num-arg 2)))))
22:27:53 <optbot> oepy: it doesn't make any sense to, nor is it even useful to, by default, bind variables to a temporary local scope.
22:27:56 <optbot> oepy: how's this for a filename: ickirc-c.rstclci.in
22:27:58 <optbot> oepy: Your philosophy is both bizarre and completely stupid.
22:28:00 <ais523> it messes up copy-and-paste
22:28:00 <optbot> oepy: 70 BOTTLES OF BEER ON THE WALL, 70 BOTTLES OF BEER.
22:28:01 -!- oepy has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:28:09 <ais523> and it can't easily be sent over IRC
22:28:09 <ehird> that means your editor SUCKS
22:28:20 <ehird> just not on one line.
22:28:28 <ehird> you cant send entire programs over irc
22:28:29 <ais523> all sorts of things mess up whitespace
22:28:30 <ehird> because they're too big
22:28:32 <ehird> you have to pastebin them!
22:28:43 <ais523> a Python program can't recover from an accidental M-q
22:29:05 <ais523> and before you say that's stupid, my BF interp in Python for bsmnt_bot got messed up like that
22:29:06 <ehird> it's called "undo"
22:29:16 <ais523> and no, I didn't notice until after I'd saved, and lost the backup
22:29:24 <ehird> that's not python's problem
22:30:06 <ais523> well, most other langs are more resistant to that sort of thing
22:30:11 * ehird wonders what to add next
22:30:21 <ais523> also, it's a pain to move Python code from inside a slightly indented block to a very indented block
22:30:35 <ais523> because you can't just automatically recompute the indent of every line
22:30:36 <ehird> with my editor, I just copy
22:30:40 <ais523> which is my normal technique
22:30:48 <ais523> ehird: it can't do in all cases
22:30:49 <ehird> it's not even emacs, too
22:30:51 <ehird> ais523: yes, it can
22:30:57 <ais523> physically impossible because there's sometimes more than one possibility
22:32:59 * ehird notes that python has 'let'
22:33:07 <ehird> (lambda a=2, b=3: ...)()
22:34:57 <AnMaster> probably it is either bad, or someone made it before
22:35:12 <ais523> AnMaster: Proud would be like that
22:35:19 <ais523> actually, Proud's like that but worrse
22:35:37 <ais523> it can handle an infinite amount of data
22:35:43 <AnMaster> ais523, and I didn't mean it as an esolang
22:35:44 <ais523> that's how it manages to be super-TC without loops
22:35:53 <AnMaster> but a mainstream language for the future
22:35:57 <ais523> you couldn't implement it on an actual quantum computer
22:36:06 <ais523> they don't have flow control
22:36:07 <ehird> mainstream language
22:36:12 <ehird> THE FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUTUUUUUUUUUREEEEEEEEEEE
22:36:28 <AnMaster> ais523, ah so quantum prolog wouldn't work then
22:36:39 <ais523> well, you'd have to emulate it
22:36:44 <ais523> so it wouldn't actually save computing speed
22:36:48 <AnMaster> in fact I would like to read some beginners quide to how quantum computers work
22:36:51 <ehird> Quantum computers don't have flow control...?
22:37:02 <ais523> I did a project about learning about quantum computers once
22:37:07 <ais523> and they don't have flow control
22:37:12 <ais523> you need a regular computer to control them
22:37:15 <AnMaster> ais523, and how to program for them
22:37:24 <ais523> and I wrote a simulator
22:37:27 <ais523> and factorised 15 on it
22:37:30 <ehird> Quantum computers kinda sound like hype to me.
22:37:39 <ais523> AnMaster: not off the top of my head, unfortunately
22:38:25 <AnMaster> ais523, got some link to some good alternative then?
22:38:44 <ais523> I could google-search, but you could just as easily
22:39:02 <ais523> and probably not on this computer
22:39:10 <ais523> possibly not anywhere, actually
22:41:02 <ehird> ais523: what should i implement next
22:41:44 <ais523> an interp for an esolang currently not interpretable by this channel
22:42:09 <ais523> (btw, it just bounced the requests off Lambdabot; it was a joke)
22:42:36 <ais523> the Underload is genuine, though
22:44:26 -!- oepy has joined.
22:44:34 <oepy> {'rot13': <function <lambda> at 0xcf130>, 'help': <function <lambda> at 0xcf2f0>, 'echo': <function <lambda> at 0xcf270>}
22:44:45 <ais523> that's not all that useful
22:44:59 <ehird> is "rot13, help, echo" useful?
22:45:48 -!- oepy has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:45:59 -!- oepy has joined.
22:46:01 <oepy> echo, help, rot13
22:47:30 <ais523> that isn't in here atm
22:47:38 <ehird> one python expression
22:47:54 <ehird> perhaps i should make it interpret one-expression python.
22:48:06 <ais523> ehird: that would be very dangerous
22:48:08 <ehird> wait, bsmnt_bot did that didn't it
22:48:11 <ais523> because it might let people hack your computer via the bot
22:48:13 <ehird> i'd just have to block __import__
22:48:55 <ehird> i think bsmntbombdood did one statement python
22:49:02 <ais523> yes, eir bot was chrooted
22:49:13 <ehird> i dont care about security.
22:49:22 <ehird> but if bsmnt_bot did one-expr python
22:49:22 <ais523> which server's oepy running on?
22:49:26 <ehird> then that is not speshul
22:49:31 <ehird> ais523: bournemouth
22:49:33 <ais523> if it's rutian, then I do
22:49:41 <ehird> also, ofc i'd secure it
22:49:46 <ehird> i wasnt talking about security
22:49:52 <ehird> (also: i'm the one who pays for rutian...)
22:49:57 <ais523> that's almost an esolang
22:50:10 <ehird> i'd prefer something you could use to write commands
22:50:11 <ais523> it's concatenative and TC
22:50:21 <ehird> that, you know, didn't kill you
22:50:25 <ais523> and you could just push the input on the stack at the start
22:50:25 <ehird> ais523: what's reverse in dc
22:50:31 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:51:04 <ais523> ehird: r swaps the top two stack elements
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22:51:12 <ais523> to do more than that you need to either use variables
22:51:15 <ais523> or do it Underload-style
22:51:20 <ehird> ais523: i mean, input is on stack at the start
22:51:28 <ehird> show me a program that uses that
22:51:31 <ehird> to reverse the input
22:51:37 <ehird> if it's not trivial its not useful for making bot cmds :P
22:52:14 <optbot> Mony: >>> factors 557940830126698960967415390
22:52:24 <ais523> 'twould probably take about half-an-hour to write
22:52:52 <ais523> normally you just use dc for arithmetic
22:53:29 <ehird> anyone have any bright ideas?
22:54:21 -!- Mony has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
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22:55:07 <ehird> ais523: pick an interesting language that is easy to write bot commands in
22:55:27 <ais523> except that that's whitespace-sensitive
22:57:04 <oerjan> glass should be somewhat easy
22:57:24 <ais523> oerjan: really? To write commands in, or to implement?
22:57:45 <ehird> class will be a pain to implement
22:57:47 <ehird> in one python expression
22:57:51 <ehird> although technically you can do classes
22:58:10 <ehird> type('name', (object,), {'func': (lambda self, a: ...)})
22:58:18 <oerjan> one python expression? why is that? just for the challenge?
22:58:37 <ehird> oerjan: The whole bot is one python expression.
22:58:44 <ehird> (Since that's an esolang that's easy to write stuff in.)
22:58:56 <ehird> http://rafb.net/p/8gjbwT69.html is the current code, sans the help command.
22:59:05 <oerjan> python is not an esolang
22:59:05 <ehird> oerjan: nope, one expression that can be used as a statement
22:59:11 <ehird> one-expression python is an esolang.
22:59:34 <ehird> i mean just look at that paste
22:59:38 <ehird> it's easy to write, kinda
23:00:04 <ais523> ehird: I'm going to use that code to annoy a friend of mine who's a big Python fan, I think
23:00:12 <ais523> and who claims there's only one way to do things in Python
23:00:12 <AnMaster> I think ehird mean that it is eso, same way as obfuscated C is eso
23:00:14 <ehird> ais523: i doubt it'll annoy him
23:00:20 <ehird> ais523: he'll just have a seizure
23:00:23 <ehird> and then laugh himself to death
23:00:31 <ehird> anyway, the point is there's only one obvious, easy way
23:01:07 <AnMaster> ehird, also is that code indention sensitive?
23:01:08 <ehird> glass would be a pain
23:01:09 <ehird> as it's rather bloated.
23:01:22 <ehird> whitespace only determines blocks in python.
23:01:28 <AnMaster> non-indention sensitive python rocks
23:01:38 <AnMaster> everyone should write python code like that
23:01:42 <ehird> and that's why i'm writing it
23:02:13 <ehird> it's awful, unmaintainable shite
23:02:35 <AnMaster> ais523, also I haven't found any good introduction for how to program a quantum computer, plenty of generic introductions at hardware level
23:02:39 <ehird> which is the exact goal
23:02:53 * ehird thinks of esolangs...
23:02:56 <ais523> AnMaster: it's kind-of hard, as all the commands always run in exactly the same order
23:03:12 <ais523> because any attempt to depend on its internal state stops it working
23:03:14 <AnMaster> ais523, it should be easy to add new commands
23:03:30 <ais523> ehird wants to add an esolang command
23:03:41 <ais523> as atm e isn't implementing any langs besides Text and the rot13 version of it
23:03:57 <AnMaster> you need to add PING/PONG, but that should be trivial too
23:04:05 <ehird> freenode lets you ignore pings
23:04:11 <ais523> ehird: not forever it doesn't
23:04:15 <AnMaster> ehird, only if you send something else
23:04:22 <ais523> you have to do /something/ every now and then
23:04:23 <ehird> ais523: my experience suggests otherwise
23:04:25 <ais523> even if it isn't a PONG
23:04:27 <AnMaster> if it isn't sending anything you will time out
23:04:28 <ehird> that's easily doable
23:04:34 <ehird> just make it ping the _server_ every now and then
23:04:43 <ais523> but why not just respond to pings?
23:05:03 <ehird> esolang suggestions welcome
23:05:16 <AnMaster> ais523, sure I get it is kind of hard, but I would like to know the basic operations anyway
23:05:32 <ais523> AnMaster: there are only two of them IIRC
23:05:36 <ais523> one is probability rotation
23:05:40 <ais523> which is almost impossible to explain
23:05:48 <ais523> and the other one is a = a XOR b which is trivial
23:06:04 <AnMaster> ais523, that sounds almost like intercal ;)
23:06:29 <AnMaster> ais523, however try to explain them
23:06:31 <ehird> i think you need a degree in both quantum mechanics and computer science to understand quantum computing
23:06:34 <ais523> probability rotation is much harder to explain than SELCET
23:06:44 <ais523> hopefully, you know what XOR does though
23:06:53 <AnMaster> ais523, do you understand it? :)
23:07:08 <ais523> AnMaster: well, assume that each bit has a certain probablity of being 1
23:07:12 <ais523> and the rest of the time it's 0
23:07:14 <AnMaster> anyway should quantum computers become mainstream it will be hard to fine programmers
23:07:24 <ais523> except that these probabilities each have directions
23:07:45 <ehird> AnMaster: no it wont
23:07:48 <ehird> you'll just use libraries
23:07:59 <ehird> it's like saying x86 is hard to find programmers for
23:08:08 <ehird> because they don't know the low-level microcode
23:08:18 <AnMaster> ehird, ah quantum::whatever<std::string>?
23:08:18 <ehird> whereas, er, you could just use c or python
23:08:24 <ehird> AnMaster: Something like that.
23:08:37 <ais523> AnMaster: let me just show you an example program
23:08:39 <ais523> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shor's_algorithm#Quantum_part:_Period-finding_subroutine
23:09:32 <ais523> yes, I implemented it once
23:09:41 <ais523> on a classical computer, though
23:09:45 <AnMaster> ais523, you got a degree in quantum mechanics?
23:09:56 <AnMaster> then ehird's statement is void
23:10:06 <AnMaster> <ehird> i think you need a degree in both quantum mechanics and computer science to understand quantum computing
23:10:11 <ais523> but I've forgotten bits of it by now
23:10:14 <ehird> How does an AnMaster know what hyperbole is???
23:10:22 <ais523> and even when I knew it I wouldn't really want to have to explain it
23:10:33 <AnMaster> ehird, err that can't be correct grammar
23:10:48 <ehird> AnMaster: how does a anmaster know what memes is.
23:11:12 <AnMaster> ehird, I don't know lots of memes
23:11:19 <AnMaster> so I agree I lack experience there
23:12:18 <ehird> if I block 'eval' and '__import__' i think my evaller will be OK
23:12:39 <ehird> otherwise you could do
23:12:43 <ehird> eval('__im'+'port__("os").system("rm -rf ~")')
23:14:03 <AnMaster> ehird, I would like to see the finished code for that bot when you are done :)
23:14:26 <AnMaster> ehird, works like you intended it to
23:14:27 <ehird> Also, it's about as practical as fungot as far as coding style goes.
23:14:28 <fungot> ehird: maybe the 16-bit opcodes are four bits smaller.
23:14:40 <AnMaster> ehird, yeah but this is #esoteric
23:14:46 <AnMaster> and remember to show it in #python
23:14:58 <ehird> They'll just call me crazy and continue doing sane things.
23:15:10 <ehird> Or start giving a critique of the code style. *That'd* be amusing.
23:15:35 <ehird> Hmm. I think I might ask them about my current problem (How can I catch expressions without a try/exec block)
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23:16:47 <AnMaster> ehird, well still, I'd like to see the code of a version that can connect and that works. Call it final version or not.
23:16:56 -!- oepy has joined.
23:17:04 <ehird> It'll only handle about 1000 messages, though.
23:17:16 <ehird> As it infinite loops by calling a function from within the same function over and over.
23:17:24 <ehird> And python has a small stack as it's not designed for functional programming.
23:17:46 <ehird> *epy __import__('sys').stdout.write('I AM EVIL')
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23:17:56 <ehird> an exception, as I haven't implemented error recovery in epy yet
23:18:05 <AnMaster> ehird, sorry, just had to test
23:18:11 <ehird> (It replaces __import__ with no_import, so I got a 'no_import' is not defined error)
23:18:25 <AnMaster> ehird, and the thing I pasted a second before?
23:18:27 <ehird> I think I can fix the infinite loop problem
23:18:30 <ehird> AnMaster: No, a second after.
23:18:34 <ehird> It was ignored as it had already crashed.
23:18:38 <ehird> [[NameError: name 'no_import' is not defined]]
23:18:43 <ehird> Freenode thinks so too.
23:18:49 <AnMaster> ehird, depends on what server you are on
23:19:08 <AnMaster> ehird, on the server I'm connected to, I guess it agrees with me
23:19:14 <AnMaster> since I got 0.01 seconds lag to server
23:20:13 <ehird> I'm on a bouncer, so.
23:20:17 <ehird> rutian is a fast little thing, though.
23:20:31 <ehird> rutian is my server
23:20:49 <ehird> Featuring me, ais523, murphy, hideous, drew, and comex.
23:20:54 <ehird> Of whom you know 3.
23:20:59 <ehird> (me, ais523 and comex.)
23:21:21 <ehird> I own the server (a VPS technically), ais523 is sudoer.
23:21:57 <ehird> It houses optbot, ais523 and I's IRC connections.
23:21:57 <optbot> ehird: as one of the data types.
23:22:03 <ehird> And has a web server.
23:22:25 <oerjan> optbot: ah you're type-level programming?
23:22:25 <optbot> oerjan: toffoli gate is not quantum.
23:22:40 <ehird> Top memory user is optbot at 59.9% memory usage
23:22:44 <ehird> due to having every esoteric log, ever, in memory
23:22:46 <ehird> (256mb total memory on the slice)
23:22:53 <ehird> Followed by php-cgi, mysqld, apache2 and such at 5-1%
23:24:20 <ehird> The problem with #python is that they lie to you if they think you're doing something bad.
23:24:26 <ehird> (e.g. a single-expression exception handler)
23:25:24 <comex> single-expression exception handler
23:27:13 <ehird> eval(compile('try:\n raise Exception\nexcept Exception, e:\n print e', '', 'single'))
23:27:19 <ehird> Cheating, but what the heck
23:27:33 <AnMaster> ehird, do you remove duplicate lines from the logs?
23:27:50 <ehird> <habnabit_> ehird, would you really consider that clean, maintainable code?
23:27:53 <ehird> ^ Of course not, you moron!
23:28:05 <ehird> <habnabit_> ehird, it relies on implementation details anyway.
23:28:07 <AnMaster> ehird, How much memory would removing duplicate lines save?
23:28:11 <ehird> AnMaster: A lot, probably.
23:28:22 <AnMaster> ehird, it does rely on implementation details?
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23:28:35 <AnMaster> for languages that lack a standard
23:28:49 <AnMaster> ehird, don't see it in the paste?
23:28:59 <ehird> Because I'm modifying it.
23:29:02 <ehird> Also, there are multiple python impls.
23:29:33 <ehird> pppppppppyyyyyyyyyyy
23:29:44 <comex> it promised to be fast but never actually got there
23:29:56 <AnMaster> ehird, and I knew the names, just typoed them
23:30:06 <ehird> comex: it's still going...
23:30:20 <comex> ehird: yeah and it'll be finished around the time of dnf or perl6
23:30:32 <ehird> dnf=duke nukem forever
23:30:33 <comex> duke nukem forever
23:30:57 -!- kar8nga has left (?).
23:31:53 <ehird> <habnabit_> ehird, I hope this isn't production code.
23:32:32 <oerjan> tell him it's for an evil world domination plan, so it's okay
23:33:22 <oerjan> he should be _happy_ it isn't maintainable
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23:34:42 <ehird> you're so observant
23:35:00 <AnMaster> Captain Obvious at your service.
23:35:06 -!- oepy has joined.
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23:35:31 * ehird considers offering a 'persist' dictionary for *epy that is persistant for a given user
23:35:53 <AnMaster> ehird, you didn't want it to work?
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23:36:33 <ehird> it doesn't work _on my end_
23:37:09 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
23:37:20 <ehird> it outputted to my console
23:37:24 <ehird> because i was using the wrong type of compile
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23:38:05 <AnMaster> ehird, care to pastebin current code?
23:38:06 -!- oepy has joined.
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23:38:24 <ehird> AnMaster: in a sec
23:38:45 <ehird> Meanwhile, here's a flood of the current epy code: [[ 'epy': (lambda s, *a:
23:38:45 <ehird> (lambda code: eval(
23:38:46 <ehird> 'try:\n s(repr(eval(compile(code, "<irc>", "eval"), {}, {})))\n' +
23:38:46 <ehird> 'except object, e:\n s(e.__class__.__name__ + ": " + str(e))',
23:38:50 <ehird> {'s': s, 'code': code}, {}))(' '.join(a).replace('eval', 'no_eval').replace('__import__', 'no_import'))
23:39:16 <ehird> compiles a string into a python code object
23:39:26 <AnMaster> ehird, that works around missing blocks?
23:39:45 <AnMaster> ehird, and is cpython specific?
23:40:04 <AnMaster> ehird, you said implementation specific before?
23:40:21 <ehird> not sure what he meant
23:40:41 <ehird> no, i bother him enough daily :-P
23:40:47 <ehird> i think he might have op access
23:40:56 <ehird> AnMaster: no, just stupid questions :D
23:41:36 -!- oepy has joined.
23:41:39 <oepy> ZeroDivisionError: integer division or modulo by zero
23:41:44 <ehird> TOO COOL FOR SCHOOL
23:41:54 <ehird> *epy i am a green butt
23:41:55 <oepy> SyntaxError: invalid syntax (<irc>, line 1)
23:42:01 <ehird> *epy print '__import__ lol'
23:42:01 <oepy> SyntaxError: invalid syntax (<irc>, line 1)
23:42:08 <ehird> *epy '__import__ lol'
23:42:09 <oepy> 'no_import lol'
23:42:42 <ehird> *epy eval('__i'+'mport__("sys").stdout.write("MWAHAHA")')
23:42:43 <oepy> NameError: name 'no_eval' is not defined
23:43:21 <ehird> now i give that persistence
23:43:54 <ehird> AnMaster: a reasonable interface would be persist('name', 'value') and persisted['user']['name']
23:44:05 <AnMaster> ehird, can't really say for python
23:44:16 <ehird> well, that's a pretty general interface
23:44:35 <AnMaster> ehird, if persisted is some hash array I guess so
23:44:45 <AnMaster> name would be a variable name?
23:44:47 <ehird> persisted = {user: {name: value}, ...}
23:44:54 -!- oepy has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:44:57 <ehird> *epy persist('hello', 2)
23:45:01 <ehird> then to get it back
23:45:08 <ehird> *epy persisted['ehird']['hello']
23:45:16 <ehird> that means you can share too
23:45:25 <ehird> *epy persist('my_awesome_func', lambda x: x+2)
23:45:27 <ehird> then someone could do
23:45:35 <ehird> * epy persisted['ehird']['my_awesome_func'](3)
23:45:56 <ehird> itd be nice to omit the user, but then anyone could mess up others' stuff
23:46:02 <ehird> perhaps i'll add a shortcut
23:46:09 <ehird> my('foo') -> persisted[your_name]['foo']
23:46:17 <ehird> *epy persist('hello', 2)
23:46:18 <AnMaster> ehird, will you import some system libraries?
23:46:23 <ehird> *epy my('hello')*2
23:46:27 <AnMaster> I don't know what is needed for math stuff
23:46:28 <ehird> AnMaster: Unlikely, too many holes.
23:46:33 <ehird> I could import math, yes.
23:47:02 <AnMaster> ehird, maybe something like perl's sandbox stuff, forgot the name of it
23:47:21 <ehird> Python doesn't have sandboxing features, no.
23:48:01 <AnMaster> well I guess some math stuff would be nice. And possibly some other stuff, but I don't know enough python to say what
23:48:12 <AnMaster> for erlang for example I would allow lists module
23:48:23 <AnMaster> since that have stuff like map() and foldl() and such
23:48:37 <AnMaster> but that is hardly same paradigm
23:48:53 <AnMaster> and as I said I don't know python enough to know what would be nice to have, yet secure
23:49:25 <AnMaster> ehird, I'm sure you can figure out what could be needed/useful
23:49:41 <ehird> Well, single-expression python is an esolang.
23:49:45 <ehird> I don't think it needs much :-P
23:50:33 <AnMaster> ehird, sqrt/sin/cos/tan/asin/acos/atan/pow and similar
23:50:54 <AnMaster> ehird, possibly some way to map stuff on arrays?
23:50:56 <ehird> the math module has all of those
23:51:19 <ehird> just foldr, i think
23:52:42 <AnMaster> " mapfold combines the operations of map/2 and foldl/3 into one pass. An example, summing the elements in a list and double them at the same time:"
23:52:45 <oerjan> *epy reduce((lambda x, y : x-y), [1,2,3])
23:52:57 <ehird> oerjan: oepy is being upgraded
23:53:59 <ehird> AnMaster: It's unneeded.
23:54:02 <ehird> Just use map and reduce.
23:54:12 <ehird> Shut up it's an esolang.
23:55:14 <ehird> SHUTUPITSANESOLANG :|
23:55:17 <ehird> And it's called "filter".
23:55:36 -!- oepy has joined.
23:55:38 <AnMaster> a function that returns either true or false to map
23:55:38 <oepy> AttributeError: 'dict' object has no attribute 'a'
23:55:42 -!- oepy has quit (Remote closed the connection).
23:55:47 <oerjan> *epy reduce((lambda x, y : x-y), [1,2,3])
23:55:59 -!- oepy has joined.
23:56:03 <oerjan> *epy reduce((lambda x, y : x-y), [1,2,3])
23:56:13 <ehird> *epy look('ehird')
23:56:18 <ehird> *epy look('ehird')
23:56:25 <ehird> *epy look('AnMaster')
23:56:35 <ehird> *epy look('ehird').__setitem__('a', 2)
23:56:36 <oepy> AttributeError: '' object has no attribute '__setitem__'
23:57:06 <ehird> AnMaster: can you *epy get('a', user='ehird') please
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23:57:37 <AnMaster> ehird, does this allow storing functions as well as values?
23:57:45 * ehird makes nice syntactic sugar:
23:57:49 <AnMaster> ehird, so python have first class functions?
23:58:04 <AnMaster> just a shame with the indention
23:58:11 <ehird> i couldn't have done that without first class functions up the wazoo
23:58:19 <AnMaster> ehird, you didn't paste the last code
23:58:26 <ehird> but even just the old one