< 1223947667 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1223949242 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1223953375 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1223953626 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | oh no < 1223954633 0 :bsmntbombdood_!n=gavin@97-118-116-90.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1223955088 0 :xor_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1223957205 0 :ab5tract!n=ab5tract@pool-71-246-5-13.phlapa.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1223958479 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :bsmntbombdood < 1223959189 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1223959255 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1223960236 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Devise an algorithm to sort an array of numbers in place (that is, using O(1) additional space). < 1223960236 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bonus: How would you change this algorithm if you wanted to destroy all animal life? All life? < 1223960340 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1223960349 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's lots of in-place sorting algorithms < 1223960407 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, are you people impervious to humor? < 1223960465 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1223960473 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1223960473 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently < 1223960489 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont' get it < 1223960529 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The second line is the joke X_X < 1223960709 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1223960783 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1223960937 0 :Jiminy_Cricket!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1223960950 0 :Jiminy_Cricket!n=bob@adsl-230-206-75.btr.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1223963933 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: well i found bsmntbombdood much funnier than your joke :D < 1223963993 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i can only think of ways to sort in O(1) space in O(n) time < 1223964071 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clever guy < 1223964140 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clever guy? < 1223964244 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've only heard something vague about one being able to get rid of the recursion stack for quicksort < 1223964265 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i once made an attempt at, but resulted in O(n lg lg n) afaik < 1223964307 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The simplest answer is bubble sort, but THAT'S NOT THE BLOODY JOKE < 1223964308 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*O(lg lg n) space actually < 1223964331 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: that's O(n) < 1223964342 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's O(1) /additional/ space. < 1223964344 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking O(n lg n) time, O(1) space < 1223964351 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O(n) time < 1223964354 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :silly boy < 1223964357 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's O(n^2) time. < 1223964362 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rrright :D < 1223964364 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it is < 1223964369 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never said to use better than O(n^2) time though. < 1223964383 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You people are joke murderers. < 1223964386 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know that? < 1223964388 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JOKE MURDERERS. < 1223964389 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1223964395 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey i lolled at your joke < 1223964416 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just i want to know if you can do O(1) additional space in O(n lg n) time < 1223964446 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-39-168.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1223964601 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now sorting an array of numbers in O(-1) space, that's a challenge < 1223964601 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1223964608 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-39-168.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1223964679 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1223964699 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't have o(n) time < 1223964710 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost forgot, the lecture on O(-2^n) space O(-n) time algorithms starts in 5 minutes < 1223964724 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first of all i meant O(n^2), i just wasn't thinking < 1223964746 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can get O(n) in some cases < 1223964794 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're sorting objects in a finite set, you can lift the size of the set into the constant multiplier, and get O(n) < 1223964817 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all these hole sorts are based on this < 1223964827 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, you have a hole and you stick your finger in it < 1223964831 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you get O(n) < 1223964833 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see you around -> < 1223965138 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1223965359 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're always sorting in a finite set. < 1223965368 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good moaning < 1223965373 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although admittedly bucket-sorting integers into 2^64 is a bit prohibitive. < 1223965382 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although admittedly bucket-sorting integers into 2^64 buckets is a bit prohibitive. < 1223965442 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1223965453 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-39-168.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1223965568 0 :slereah!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-39-168.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1223965568 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1223965672 0 :oklocod!n=nnscript@sparkgw.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1223965682 0 :slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1223965749 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... heap sort might be without extra space and still O(n lg n) isn't it? < 1223965763 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well, O(1) extra) < 1223965770 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: computers are turing complete, and 0..2^64-1 is an infinite set < 1223965797 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By what stretch of the imagination is 0..2^64-1 an infinite set? < 1223965805 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's true < 1223965815 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: it's reeeeeally big < 1223965819 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1223965836 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my point is you have to choose your abstractions < 1223965875 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sometimes has envisioned that the consistency of infinite maths is an illusion, and maybe it breaks down at some _big_ number < 1223965918 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe so big that we can never hit it with any proof that fits in our universe < 1223965922 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how big? < 1223965929 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1223965933 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's quite big < 1223965952 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it could be much smaller, we just haven't found it yet < 1223965975 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean, all maths break down at that number? < 1223965979 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1223965987 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1223965999 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe not all simultaneously, but that's when things start to break < 1223966009 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i may sound a bit more stupid than i am, as i have like a 2 minute lag < 1223966026 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'm often asking questions loooong after they've already been answered < 1223966036 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: at least an hour long lag < 1223966043 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CTCP PING reply from oklocod: -6.-79 seconds < 1223966049 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks ... serious < 1223966052 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1223966068 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-6*10^-79? < 1223966071 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what does that mean < 1223966115 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps your PING reply is broken < 1223966139 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc it should respond with the number i sent, or something < 1223966163 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> ctcp[oklocod] PING 1223962424 679900 < 1223966194 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you don't, obviously the time calculations will be off < 1223966252 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the second - is probably irssi not being prepared to handle negative numbers in the display < 1223966323 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and using a / and % that rounds in the wrong direction for this purpose < 1223966397 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's _still_ strange that it gets numbers that low - if you respond with garbage you'd think irssi would end up with something huge? < 1223966432 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme try again < 1223966467 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um this time i got no response < 1223966505 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION guesses oklocod really is lagged now < 1223966528 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@sparkgw.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1223966555 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1223966566 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@sparkgw.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1223966654 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i was quite lagged < 1223966661 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after which my internet faded away < 1223966735 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is this lecture about databases, the course is about distributed computation < 1223966890 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i get PING replies again now, but still strangely small negative numbers < 1223966919 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theory: maybe you reply with your own clocktime, which is slow? < 1223966962 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: That sounds likely, because he replied to fungot's "PING fungot" with a clocktime. < 1223966963 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's usually because almost all implementations of the high-level s-expression manipulation commands ( slurpage, barfage, &c. < 1223966994 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop mocking me ! < 1223967001 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do what i can < 1223967015 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: It's not you we're mocking, it's your WORLD'S MOST FAMOUS AND BESTEST IRC client we're mocking. < 1223967160 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also your clock setting < 1223967163 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you think it's the bestest too? < 1223967171 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's nice :) < 1223967176 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I've heard. From you, mostly. < 1223967181 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1223967188 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION refuses to believe nvg's automatically updated clocks are wrong < 1223967203 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well tbh this is a very sucky client, except for the fact it looks pretty without me having to invert the colors manually < 1223967234 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1223967314 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION inverted his colors by downloading a theme from the irssi website < 1223967389 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irssi is another client that has white text on black by default < 1223967397 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, so i inverted it < 1223967401 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, it's a sucky client otherwise < 1223967402 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION loves white on black < 1223967409 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION also loves irssi < 1223967417 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, my irssi was broken, and no one knew how to fix it < 1223967428 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's internal documentation sucks, is what i find < 1223967432 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*its < 1223967433 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't get any kind of highlighting to show < 1223967445 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irssi, a sucky client? What kind of person clames that? < 1223967459 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: of course, no sane person would use black on white < 1223967472 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not on a terminal. < 1223967475 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: GOOD THAT I AM MAD THEN < 1223967496 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: a client that doesn't work is sucky. < 1223967504 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: EVIL! < 1223967516 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i couldn't get the bar that tells me which channels have some kinda highlights to show < 1223967520 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: What doesn't work about irssi, aside from your borken irssi configuration? < 1223967548 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used a black-on-white terminal (with matching irssi, mutt, tin color schemes) for a year or two. Then I went back to white-on-black. < 1223967551 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... You couldn't get irssi's default configuration to work? < 1223968664 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1223968705 0 :oklocod!n=nnscript@sparkgw.utu.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1223968799 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice, i'm back < 1223968827 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: one reason for not liking irssi was it simply didn't work, it didn't show the bar where you see which channels have had activity < 1223968840 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is its default behavior. < 1223968852 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, well i guess i should've asked you then. < 1223968855 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which means your irssi setup is 100% broken. < 1223968857 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm pretty sure i asked here < 1223968862 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. < 1223968886 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyways. < 1223968890 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1223968898 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other reason < 1223968914 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the textual view < 1223968932 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it work if you have more than ten channels open? < 1223968936 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i usually have ~40 < 1223969031 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :q = 11, w = 12, ... < 1223969043 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure about what happens when you've got more than 20, though. < 1223969053 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think you have to do /window number < 1223969060 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think i ever have less than 20 open < 1223969095 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/window sounds a bit awkward, but at least there is a solution < 1223969096 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/win number works, too... < 1223969099 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't know there was. < 1223969120 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, i never actually researched the subject, it's easier just to use the client that works the best without configuring. < 1223969140 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1223969156 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i won't be satisfied with a client anyway, unless i made it myself, so i don't have much incentive to fix things < 1223969186 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In theory, one could make irssi such that it's satisfactory to you. < 1223969193 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is, after all, Perl customizable. < 1223969215 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you can do that for nnscript as well < 1223969252 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but will i actually do that when i could just start over and get a system just as good. < 1223969290 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair 'nough. < 1223969342 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also irssi has the minor defect i would have to learn to do the things command-wise i'm used to doing with the mouse < 1223969349 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff like ctcp < 1223969365 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and by that i mean sending stuff to others) < 1223969448 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mouse, shmouse. < 1223969535 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate mouses < 1223969538 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're useful < 1223969571 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm using vista after all < 1223969610 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, my father uses windows faster without a mouse, i'm just used to it < 1223969636 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would like a touchscreen you can touch in multiple places at once < 1223969724 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now i wanna write an irc client < 1223969730 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps i should. < 1223969735 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scratch that < 1223969741 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: could you add a gui to fungot? < 1223969743 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod: why'd you kill it? < 1223969782 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i could use it as my client < 1223969786 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be awesome < 1223970080 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... < 1223970113 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps i could encode text into graph representations, and make a client with graph-graphics! :o < 1223970133 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god, i could have 1. graphs 2. glyphs only i am able to read 3. pure 4. awesomeness < 1223970263 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :undirected graph of course :P < 1223970315 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will you join my exzuuuuuuuberance? < 1223970340 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i need a break :) < 1223970340 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1223970735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod, you could probably make an ncurses based GUI using NCRS < 1223970736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1223970801 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds nice enough < 1223970816 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really i don't need the g < 1223970825 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just wanna irc through fungot < 1223970826 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod: that is the part where the compiler is " poorly designed" if continuations are not unmodular in the same sense < 1223970848 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except right now all i can think about it making a graph-based alphabet. < 1223970852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod, well since it use SOCK you still have blocking STDIO I that you could use < 1223970882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need non-blocking stdio I suspect < 1223970898 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey don't talk to me this is fizzie's responsibility, i'd just be a user! :) < 1223970910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1223970915 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(graaaaaaaphs) < 1223970920 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(moooooore graaaaaaaaph) < 1223970923 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*s < 1223970950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (moooooore graaaaaaaaphs) < 1223970950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reference to undefined identifier: moooooore < 1223970996 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an elongation of "more" < 1223971006 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't you have elongation support? < 1223971008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (more graphs) < 1223971008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reference to undefined identifier: more < 1223971021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod, seems it doesn't < 1223971038 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you were pipelining it to a non-human interpreter < 1223971041 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just silly :) < 1223971045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod, mzscheme to be exact < 1223971088 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate this course < 1223971089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklocod, it looked like scheme to me < 1223971091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1223971092 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's nothing to read < 1223971119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouhc < 1223971121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch* < 1223971127 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who wants to listen to lectures when you could just read a few hundred pages < 1223971137 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and get tons more informatino < 1223971140 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*information < 1223971169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1223971199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1223971200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1223971221 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the lecturer did mention a 1200 page book that *did not fully cover this course* < 1223971274 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1223971282 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems i gotta get back home -> < 1223971423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, cya < 1223972191 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@a91-153-123-88.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1223972279 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any lisp ought to have elongation support < 1223972288 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(caaaaaaaaaaaaar wreck) < 1223972289 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1223972293 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1223972324 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the spec only requires it four deep < 1223972337 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rrrright? < 1223972341 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said "ought to" < 1223972349 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o. < 1223972385 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1223972511 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :name ideas for a graph-based irc client? < 1223972582 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :orc would be quite standard for me, but that's kinda boring < 1223972644 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graphirc would look a bit like a mistyping of graphic, perhaps, but that's a bit boring too < 1223973045 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many distinct graphs can you make with n nodes? < 1223973156 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it np-complete to calculate that? < 1223973222 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2^(n over 2) undirected graphs, I think. Since that's the number of node-pairs, and each pair can either have an edge or not. < 1223973241 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :distinct up to form < 1223973356 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides its practical importance, the graph isomorphism problem is a curiosity in computational complexity theory as it is one of a very small number of problems belonging to NP neither known to be solvable in polynomial time nor NP-complete. < 1223973361 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*" " < 1223973370 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not the same problem, though. < 1223973390 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's "determine whether two classes are isomorphic", not "how many isomorphism classes there are in graphs with n vertices". < 1223973392 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you see i'm building something like morse code, i have one main strand, where i need to hang these small graphies on the nodes < 1223973396 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't sound very easy, though. < 1223973433 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/classes/graphs/ there. < 1223973450 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the graphies need to be distinct (although they may be rooted, which matters of course) < 1223973519 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can enumerate the sets manually for long enough to get a character for every ascii chart entry, i'm just interested in theory < 1223973573 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, the R "graph.isomorphism" package: "graph.isoclass returns the isomorphism class of a graph, a non-negative integer number. Graphs (with the same number of vertices) having the same isomorphism class are isomorphic and isomorphic graphs always have the same isomorphism class. Currently it can handle only graphs with 3 or 4 vertices." < 1223973587 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it were trivial, I would think they'd handle graphs with over 4 vertices. < 1223973598 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1223973635 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a new kind of structure seems to emerge every time i add a new node < 1223973651 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which immediately suggests there's no simple way to calculate the number of them < 1223973688 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I think we manually enumerated the isomorphism classes for small graphs during the graph theory course, when thinking about some assignment. < 1223973725 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but this is not the exact same problem, because they may be rooted; except i now realize they *are* exactly the same problem. < 1223973749 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just need to take the graphs, and root them from every possible angle < 1223973752 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1223973756 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no... it's not that simple < 1223973773 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think it's the same problem < 1223973788 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it is either. < 1223973842 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance the graph abcda can be rooted in four different ways, all of which are equal, while in abcad three of the rootings are distinct < 1223973853 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you know eodermdrome syntax, which you probably don't < 1223973870 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you may be able to guess how it works < 1223973893 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In some sense, graph isomorphism is easy in practice except for a set of pathologically difficult graphs that seem to cause all the problems. So, unlike knot theory, there have never been any significant pairs of graphs for which isomorphism was unresolved." < 1223973936 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(from MathWorld) < 1223973951 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the first quote was Wikipedia) < 1223973952 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A000088, Number of graphs on n unlabeled nodes. < 1223973966 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1, 1, 2, 4, 11, 34, 156, ... < 1223973968 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn i was trying to get to that < 1223973971 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some formulas. < 1223973999 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 is unknown? < 1223974002 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you just cut it < 1223974006 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just cut it. < 1223974014 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..., , 1044, 12346, 274668, 12005168, 1018997864, 165091172592, 50502031367952, 29054155657235488, 31426485969804308768, 64001015704527557894928, 245935864153532932683719776, 1787577725145611700547878190848, 24637809253125004524383007491432768 < 1223974023 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turns out it's not actually that difficult to compute. < 1223974023 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, nice < 1223974032 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1223974052 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, now tell me *how* to compute it, so i can generalize it for rooted graphs... < 1223974055 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in fact we _did_ compute it; it was the "generative functions" class, not the graph theory one, and we manually enumerated them because we wanted to check whether our solution was correct. < 1223974069 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1223974075 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least we wrote a generative function for it. I'm not sure if we actually figured out the coefficients. < 1223974095 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can check if I can find my notes. It might've been something else than just unlabeled graphs. < 1223974113 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know anything about generative functions, i've heard of generating functions, but i'm not sure what they are either. < 1223974179 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Generating function might be the correct english term. < 1223974196 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, seems so. < 1223974218 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a function whose power series representation has coefficients that correspond to some interesting sequence. < 1223974237 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's sort of strange. i would have thought that since testing isomorphism is hard, that would mess up the count too... < 1223974265 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Generatingfunctionology book is relatively nice; even the name is funky. < 1223974271 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We used that as a course book, I think. < 1223974284 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you think? :P < 1223974332 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't read it much, it was sort-of background material. < 1223974352 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why can't I find my homework solutions? < 1223974489 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.research.att.com/~njas/sequences/A032259 has a really weird description < 1223974550 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what don't you know what a dyslexic windmills :D < 1223974555 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*windmill is < 1223974665 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, seems like our "number of graphs" homework problem was actually restricted to some kind of trees. < 1223974688 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :icic < 1223974704 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: http://www.research.att.com/~njas/sequences/A126100 < 1223974707 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was Autumn 2006, I've forgotten most of it, I just remember counting graphs at some point. < 1223974717 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(connected though) < 1223974732 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :connected is actually what i want < 1223974751 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, i'm making a writing system you know < 1223974753 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know < 1223974791 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's perfect < 1223974799 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1223974815 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 has just 11 distinct rooted garphs 8| < 1223974834 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1223974840 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one seems to use generating functions < 1223974847 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, i'm not counting the root; i only found 9 of the 11 sofar < 1223974892 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's computed from combining the generating functions of A000666 (sequence of the beast!) and A000088. < 1223974927 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, that's how useful they are; you just need to multiply some known functions and you get an otherwise-not-quite-as-simple-to-compute sequence out of it. < 1223974980 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know they are useful, and i know what they are; i just don't know anything about them :) < 1223975017 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay i think i have all eleven distinct rooted graphs on 4 nodes < 1223975044 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next find the 58 5-vertex graphs and the 407 6-vertex graphs. < 1223975120 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also the 72489 6-vertex graphs; then you probably have a graph for each currently defined Unicode symbol. < 1223975139 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. is the root, standard eodermdrome syntax: .a.b.c, .ab.c, .ab.cb, .aba.c, .abac, .ab.acb, .ab.ac, .abca, .abc, .ab.cabc, .abc. < 1223975160 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love eodermdrome < 1223975195 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i love it! now check those < 1223975226 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | sounds good < 1223975232 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, ".abc" are the four nodes, adjacent letters mean there's an arc < 1223975243 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so .a.b.c is the comb < 1223975247 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.abc is the line < 1223975248 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I did guess the syntax mostly correctly. < 1223975253 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.abc. is the cycle < 1223975258 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :others are the more complicated cases < 1223975279 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "comb" is actually called "claw". < 1223975283 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1223975283 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Claw_(graph_theory) < 1223975286 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll remember that < 1223975288 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K_1,3 it is. < 1223975341 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i see < 1223975357 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i mean the general case, just happened to have 4 nodes < 1223975380 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.a.b.c.d..., where the last dots are an ellipsis < 1223975462 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps i could just enumerate the n^2 possibilities, and try to remove equals < 1223975486 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could prolly get up to six vertex graphs, and as you pointed out, that's definitely enough < 1223975486 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course the claw is not rooted, so .abac is also a claw. < 1223975499 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true, true < 1223975507 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION enumerates < 1223975539 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's not n^2 possibilities. < 1223975558 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1223975559 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2^n < 1223975562 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1223975567 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2^(n over 2) < 1223975570 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like you said < 1223975575 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes yes yes i know this < 1223975589 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just all these numbers are so over whelming < 1223975600 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*overwhelming < 1223975611 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're (so over whelming) < 1223975646 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o=n, w=2, h=e=l=m=i=n=g=1 < 1223975650 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hihi < 1223975656 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*, s=1 < 1223976526 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1223977025 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1223977049 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's actually no way the brute force algorithm will be able to enumerate all the 72 thousand distinct graphs < 1223977079 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i brute force by simply trying out all switchings of edges that is < 1223977088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, hm what about using quantum stuff for that? < 1223977088 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's 68 billion possibilities :P < 1223977103 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you mean like search? < 1223977122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, well I don't really understand quantum computer < 1223977137 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could use all kinds of things, i just can't wrap my head around how to actually do any of this efficiently. < 1223977154 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps i would get some perspective if i knew even a relatively fast way the check the equality of two graphs < 1223977156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but isn't it good at stuff like search huge number of combinations < 1223977158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and such? < 1223977162 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err yes < 1223977184 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantum basically means you're doing nondeterministic search that always guesses rigt < 1223977186 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*right < 1223977187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe could be useful for checking all graphs then? < 1223977219 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes, always finding the solution on the first attempt does help you find lots of things < 1223977242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it apparently is so for primes < 1223977243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, as far as I understood it, not always, but "most of the time"? < 1223977287 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, anyway, i doubt quantum algorithms, when translated to computers, are anything but searching with a heuristic < 1223977531 0 :Jiminy_Cricket!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1223977531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1223977563 0 :Jiminy_Cricket!n=bob@adsl-230-206-75.btr.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1223977563 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1223977609 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you have an algorithm for eodermdomizing a graph? < 1223977633 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even a bad one would suffice < 1223978006 0 :moozilla!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1223978329 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's a connected graph, can't you just do a simple depth-first-search (flagging nodes as visited to avoid loops)? Then you'd just output the the node label when entering a node, and the parent when coming back. < 1223978528 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1223978534 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol yeah that's trivial < 1223978579 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks, for some reason i was wanted to start with "", and start filling it node by node by looking for adjacent neighbors of its < 1223978613 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*neighbors of the node < 1223978626 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt a string contains many of its own neighbors. < 1223978686 0 :moozilla!n=moozilla@207-118-30-52.dyn.centurytel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1223979021 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe, takes about a minute to get the 58 solutions, assuming the graph equality even works :P < 1223979219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, is that a slow or fast in this context? < 1223979245 0 :moozilla!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1223979254 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well i'm aiming for that 72 thousand < 1223979272 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the runtime growth is exponential < 1223979284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, so too slow in other words? < 1223979327 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well in other *worlds* it wouldn't be too slow < 1223979334 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :words i don't know anything about < 1223979357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worlds or words? < 1223979367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1223979371 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the joke < 1223979374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1223979377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, yeah < 1223979388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is it too slow for the intended usage? < 1223979463 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/nauty/ is a well-known graph automorphism/isomorphism thingie. I haven't self used it, but one of the graph theory programming project people did. < 1223979468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm isn't * for dereferencing pointers and * for multiplication ambiguous in C? At least in some contexts? < 1223979472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say int *foo; < 1223979474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1223979483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int bar = 2 * foo; < 1223979492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that multiplies pointer or? < 1223979497 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a multiplication. < 1223979505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about < 1223979510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int **foo; < 1223979511 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because "2 " is not legal syntax. < 1223979517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int bar = 2 ** foo; < 1223979518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1223979521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah true < 1223979526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the second example? < 1223979534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1223979536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same for that < 1223979538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1223979539 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is "2 multiply (pointer-dereference foo)" because, again, it's the only way to make sense out of it. < 1223979547 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i can't use other people's programs < 1223979556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so it is never ambiguous? < 1223979558 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Oh, you had that sort of a bug. < 1223979567 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i'm asking for help, i'm asking for an algorithm < 1223979568 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1223979578 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, a hint < 1223979590 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Well, see the referenced paper, then: http://cs.anu.edu.au/~bdm/nauty/PGI/ < 1223979598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, "not invented here syndrome"? < 1223979605 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i'll try to get mine to work first :) < 1223979615 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, quite a bad case o that < 1223979627 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i never understood the name < 1223979649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? How is it hard to understand? < 1223979662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"we can't use it, because it wasn't invented here" < 1223979664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically < 1223979679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, remember to avoid standard library functions too < 1223979682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1223979713 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i never figured what sentence it's part of < 1223979719 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah i guess it fits that sentence. < 1223979793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, well "wasn't" != "not", but something similar to that sentence I guess < 1223979850 0 :moozilla!n=moozilla@207-118-30-52.dyn.centurytel.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1223979926 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i consider standard library functions part of the language < 1223979934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wikipedia says it is also abbreviated (sp?) as NIH < 1223979946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure I have seen a libnih recently < 1223979960 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i never use standard library functions if i feel they're too complex for me to code myself. < 1223979976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, err that made no sense :P < 1223979982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :code reuse is a good thing < 1223980037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes it exists: https://launchpad.net/libnih < 1223980039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1223980229 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see anything good in code reuse < 1223980235 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not anything bad either < 1223980358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, if 10 different applications use the same library, and the same function from that library, to do something, then that means just one function doing that thing, and just one place to fix bugs in < 1223980393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, what if every program implemented it's own sorting algorithm? Instead of using standard library ones < 1223980401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even libc got it < 1223980403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qsort() < 1223980420 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure you can manage to convince oklopol that there's anything inherently good about code reuse. < 1223980444 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it's not like he's doing software development here. < 1223980537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hehe < 1223980648 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if every program implemented its own sorting algorithm, i guess making all programs that need sorting would take a few seconds more to code < 1223980665 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, i do reuse my own code. < 1223980672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, and some more places where bugs could happen < 1223980736 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if your program has bugs, you're a bad programmer, and it's good you get some exercise rewriting trivial programs. < 1223980811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, in any sufficiently complex programs, bugs do happen < 1223980818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if you are a good programmer < 1223980840 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, how about i never make anything that complex, and we'll just consider me a small-scale programmer < 1223980874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, not even 1000 lines of code or so in any project? < 1223980881 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that may well be the case, most programs worth writing are pretty short < 1223980899 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sure, but that's not "sufficiently complex" < 1223980919 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do some 300 lines per hour < 1223980929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, cfunge got around 10000 lines of code according to a "smart line counter" < 1223980941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and around 16000 in total < 1223980947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that include blanks and comment < 1223980957 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well cfunge has lots of stuff. i would get bored before getting bugged < 1223980966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and with "smart line counter" I mean a program that can find what are actually comments and what are code. < 1223980993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though amusingly it thinks one file is C++, I guess because I happen to use a C++ keyword as an identifier < 1223981018 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1223981023 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's smart :) < 1223981028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1223981120 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, just that the name is somewhat ironic < 1223981187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, well it is the same software that site ohloh use < 1223981340 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know what that is :) < 1223981367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ohloh < 1223981401 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i see < 1223981419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, anyway their line-of-code counter is rather good. < 1223981434 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what can it do? < 1223981454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, stuff like: http://rafb.net/p/4KJ7Ih69.html < 1223981482 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically, it can parse the language, and calculate statements < 1223981487 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it do c++? < 1223981524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, well it does think so, it says c++ for one of the C headers. It does seem to have a slight problem keeping C and C++ apart, but that isn't easy indeed. < 1223981547 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't? < 1223981558 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just parse as c, and if there's a problem, try c++ < 1223981579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, well I think it doesn't try to compile it, but does a simpler search < 1223981600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you could probably write a program valid in both C and C++, but where the code means different stuff < 1223981610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even without resorting to #ifdef < 1223981628 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case both are correct answers < 1223981726 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personally I'd just use the file suffix to decide the language; that's what gcc does, anyway. < 1223981741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, agreed < 1223981772 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though admittedly deciding between Perl and Prolog for .pl needs some heuristics, at least. < 1223981772 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's just cheating P: < 1223981774 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1223981799 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well for perl and prolog you can probably just calculate some kinda entropy function < 1223981830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both use .pl? < 1223981847 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1223981905 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although some people use .pro for Prolog, because of the Perl thing. Still, I think .pl is a lot more common. < 1223982171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what does scheme use? < 1223982177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what about haskell? < 1223982218 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell files are usually .hs, and Schemers use .scm. < 1223982227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1223982238 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I've seen other Scheme file extensions than .scm too. < 1223982312 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think some PLT stuff is in ".ss" files. < 1223982331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes sounds familiar < 1223984417 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-39-168.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1223984767 0 :slereah!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-39-168.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1223984767 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1223985681 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD after debugging my graph equivalence checked for ages i now realize it worked all along < 1223986991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1223986994 0 :ehird!n=ehird@eso-std.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1223986994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1223987000 0 :ehird!n=ehird@eso-std.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1223987003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid butts. < 1223987006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dfgdfg < 1223987008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :colloquy < 1223987011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haaaaate < 1223987481 0 :slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not a butt < 1223988731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CoE: Yes you are < 1223988823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meanwhile. < 1223988832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[President Bush on Monday signed into law legislation creating a copyright czar, a cabinet-level position on par with the nation's drug czar.]] < 1223988835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intellectual property woo < 1223988994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :czar? < 1223989226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[In the United States the title "czar" is a slang term for certain high-level civil servants, such as the "drug czar" for the head of the Drug Enforcement Administration, "terrorism czar" for a Presidential advisor on terrorism policy, "cybersecurity czar" for the highest-ranking Department of Homeland Security official on computer security and information security policy, and "war czar" to oversee the wars in Iraq and Afghanistan.]] < 1223990394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ping < 1223990404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw. away < 1223991474 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh.. does the Funge-98 spec really say 'v' should go up? From catseye.tc: "subsequent lines increment the y coordinate" (so later lines get larger Y values), "delta is either (0,-1) (south), --" (so "south" means up towards earlier lines) and "the v "Go South" instruction causes the IP to travel south". < 1223991855 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-031-154.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1223992144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OO.o 3.0 is still a bloated, laggy, ugly-looking piece of shit! < 1223992145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1223992171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My god. That text rendering is just awful. < 1223992501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION writes a "project creation request" at sf.net < 1223992512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think either I or them will go mad by it < 1223992518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either me* < 1223992520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1223992540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is unsure of the correct English form there < 1223992553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and that is why you use LaTeX ;P < 1223992573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OO.o is not for the same purpose as LaTeX < 1223992579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1223992583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, sf.net should never be used < 1223992588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why not? < 1223992601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, can't think of any good download hosting elsewhere < 1223992604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is about all I need < 1223992612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an open source site hosted on a closed source, big bucks platform, it's very slow, the interface pretty much sucks, and yeah. < 1223992622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: What is it for? < 1223992626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, efunge. < 1223992632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"efunge is coded in the functional language Erlang as mentioned in the public description. While it currently doesn't differ much in the feature set from other Befunge-98 implementations, there are plans to take advantage of Erlang's unique actor-based concurrency model in the future. This would allow efunge taking advantage of the multi-core CPUs that are getting more and more common these days." < 1223992633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll host it on eso-std.org < 1223992635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the start of the request < 1223992636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1223992647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah insane < 1223992667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits for ehird's comments on that < 1223992677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to stab you anyway, so. < 1223992680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'll host it on eso-std.org < 1223992692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm. < 1223992713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway I think the software will be ready for a first release in maybe one week or two < 1223992731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be 0.0.1 or so < 1223992736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. Whatever. I'll just put the tarballs or whatever up whenever you want. < 1223992738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no big deal. < 1223992745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, would you do same for cfunge? ;) < 1223992754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I need it, since cfunge use sf.net for download hosting < 1223992759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stabs AnMaster  < 1223992762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now we don't have to find out! < 1223992769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, eh? < 1223992820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway read the website for Java2K < 1223992824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is way more extreme < 1223992828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :than the text I pasted < 1223992833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, 'cept you're serious. :) < 1223992845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I wasn't! < 1223992852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weren't? < 1223992853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1223992856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was not < 1223992882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I really was trying not to laugh loudly when I wrote it < 1223992892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wasn't that funny either. :D < 1223992907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed, but somewhat same style as Java2K < 1223993306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://kuonet.org/~anmaster/efunge/ < 1223993311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quick and dirty < 1223993502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Please style html's background, not body. < 1223993508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise it looks ridiculous < 1223993517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? How? < 1223993529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The page is white, but the actual content has your barely-differenciated background. < 1223993533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just looks like a bug in the page. < 1223993540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :html{color:#000;font-family:sans-serif;background:#fcfcfc} < 1223993540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then? < 1223993544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1223993553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I would just not style such a simple page at all, tbh) < 1223993565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it render no differently here < 1223993571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checked with screenshot < 1223993578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and comparing images < 1223993583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: And? < 1223993589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1223993590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both renderings are correct, I believe < 1223993597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It depends on the default height/width of body. < 1223993618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, does it look better now? < 1223993623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1223993632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although personally I don't quite like the colour scheme. < 1223993686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, with all respect I like a slightly off-wite colour < 1223993694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your choice, of course < 1223993699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks :) < 1223993703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was responding to "does it look better now". < 1223993708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1223993727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what browser were you using? < 1223993738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WebKit nightly. < 1223993748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(With the Safari chrome, obviously.) < 1223993758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah was about to ask about that < 1223993776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe that Konqueror should display the same. < 1223993781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not, well, something changed somewhere. < 1223993787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I have 3.5.x remember < 1223993802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 hasn't mixed back WebKit. < 1223993805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that's not really relevant. < 1223993896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blog.davglass.com/files/yui/bacon/ Finally! A good use of JavaScript! < 1223995012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lost game < 1223995789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"SourceForge operates SourceForge.net, Slashdot, Linux.com, IT Manager's Journal, NewsForge, and Freshmeat. SourceForge licensed SourceForge Enterprise Edition to enterprise organizations. ThinkGeek — an ecommerce site — is also under the SourceForge banner." < 1223995793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrrm < 1223995817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :source http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sourceforge,_Inc. < 1223995829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that would explain why several of those sites suck < 1223995854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least those that I ever checked... sf.net, freshmeat slashdot and thinkgeek < 1223996116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you should see their app setup < 1223996118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a horrible java thing < 1223996120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that has to be run as a VM < 1223996124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1223996126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they charge like $5,000 for it < 1223996147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I hope no one buys it < 1223996155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Oh they do. < 1223996158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fact - < 1223996167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know those crop of "forges" using a look-alike software? < 1223996169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Called GForge? < 1223996169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there got to be better alternatives < 1223996174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was forked from when SourceForge was FOSS. < 1223996185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well berlios use a fork of the old foss version iirc < 1223996187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before they made it proprietary crap. < 1223996189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yah < 1223996190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and same for many other ones < 1223996205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, there are better options. < 1223996217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, we just got to wait for launchpad to go open source ;P < 1223996218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A _decent_ option, of course, would integrate it all with git. < 1223996220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets mauled by AnMaster  < 1223996227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, launchpad is awful. In my experience. < 1223996235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, better than sf.net at least < 1223996238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Plus I dislike Canonical. "Inc".) < 1223996243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: What isn't? < 1223996251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, okay, maybe Microsoft CodeProject. < 1223996256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But apart from that, come on, don't mock the retard. < 1223996257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not fair. < 1223996258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err.. lets see... yeah < 1223996260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1223996277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pets CodeProject < 1223996280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't know the name of the microsoft one < 1223996281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Noo, it's okay, you're really open source. < 1223996287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, no, I know people are saying you're not. < 1223996288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's okay. < 1223996292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're a good little thing. < 1223996294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There there. < 1223996303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about google code? < 1223996326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably better < 1223996329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not very good < 1223996333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just svn too iirc < 1223996336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google code is good, actually. It only supports SVN though, and, of course, is closed source so you're tied to google. < 1223996339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't put a large project on google code. < 1223996349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't put any project there < 1223996349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Note: cfunge is not large) < 1223996357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, cfunge doesn't use svn < 1223996363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1223996370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I was just waiting for you to claim your enterpriseyness. < 1223996380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why I actually use launchpad for mirroring branches < 1223996390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it can handle the DVCS I use < 1223996427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway if I ever need to change from bzr, it will either be darcs or mercurial < 1223996434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.aeroxp.org/2008/10/introducing-windows-7/ <- Someone at microsoft can't count < 1223996435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't want a fight about that now < 1223996633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. < 1223996634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1223996637 0 :ehird!n=ehird@eso-std.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1223996638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1223996644 0 :ehird!n=ehird@eso-std.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1223996668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. I wonder if Agora will have a coinciding economic crisis to the real world. < 1223996679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why would it? < 1223996686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I *did* just start a CRAZY COMMUNIST BANK AUTOMATON there yesterday < 1223996694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Beats me :D < 1223996707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would if I made my magical paypal<->agora bridge contract thing though < 1223996709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which nobody would use < 1223996711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because who is that crazy < 1223996713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody < 1223996750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you? < 1223996755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no offence meant < 1223996765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok good point < 1223996789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you mean like paying for agora money with real money? < 1223996790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to who? < 1223996826 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | chaos theoy, fractals, etc? < 1223996838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I was thinking a trade system. < 1223996841 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a nice topic. < 1223996854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, agreed < 1223996856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm ok < 1223996856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pay person money via paypal --> person is agora-required to give you the assets < 1223996867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And vise-versa. < 1223996869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*vice-versa. < 1223996907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1223996952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course I'd probably hook it up into the People's Bank of Agora (the silly COMMUNIST PEOPLE BANK I made yesterday intended to overthrow the Reformed Bank of Agora) < 1223996955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what currency is used? < 1223996959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what about conversion ratios < 1223996960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that you could get some actually useful stuff out of it < 1223996973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you'd send the money to the Coinkeepor) < 1223996998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'd probably set 1 People's Bank of Agora coin = 1 penny, but I should probably pick a more stable country. < 1223996998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :convertion* < 1223997001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1223997004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure about spelling < 1223997005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1223997008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conversion < 1223997011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1223997012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but idiomatic is "exchange rates" < 1223997023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also shouldn't it be floating, like the real ones? < 1223997034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1223997037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But am I that bored? :-) < 1223997042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, Agora money on the international currency market < 1223997044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1223997058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That would roughly coincide with Agora becoming the law of an island we claim. < 1223997061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Probably a traffic island.) < 1223997073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :traffic island? < 1223997075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Traffic_island < 1223997093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1223997093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1223997100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could all squeeze on! < 1223997113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the People's Bank of Agora actually does have floating exchange rates. < 1223997148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every currency has an exchange rate which is initially 10. < 1223997159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Every midnight (UTC) that the PBA has zero of a given Eligible Currency, < 1223997159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that currency's exchange rate goes up by 2. Every Monday midnight (UTC) that the < 1223997159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PBA has a non-zero amount of a given Eligible Currency, that currency's exchange < 1223997160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rate goes down by 2." < 1223997161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I never understood how floating exchange rates were calculated in the real world even < 1223997167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1223997172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you deposit something for coins < 1223997182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the currency that you deposited's exchange rate goes down by 1 < 1223997190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you withdraw some of that currency it goes up by one < 1223997191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1223997206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is it possible to make money from that? < 1223997216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean, for the bank to make money? < 1223997221 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1223997228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no, for a player < 1223997239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like convert to gain more back and forth as needed < 1223997245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, no. < 1223997253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It goes down on deposit, up one withdraw. < 1223997256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it'd just keep batting and batting. < 1223997271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can, however, make a profit overnight. < 1223997274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 coins < 1223997283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just 2 coins? < 1223997297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, yes... < 1223997297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't that be 2x? < 1223997300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or? < 1223997300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1223997301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why would it be? < 1223997309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"that currency's exchange rate goes up by 2" < 1223997324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: exchange rate for currency X = how many coins X is worth < 1223997329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., how many coins you get depositing one X < 1223997335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or how many coins you have to spend to get one X < 1223997340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes so you can get 1:2, right? < 1223997344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, no < 1223997356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're mixing up midnight changes with deposit/withdraw changes < 1223997360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you can't do a large bulk transaction? < 1223997364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes you can. < 1223997366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, 2 coins profit overnight is a LOT < 1223997371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is? hm < 1223997372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's 20% of your cost for one asset back < 1223997376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the default rate is 10 < 1223997385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rates will bubble up to like 50 soon enough, I imagine. < 1223997392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1223997395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1223997415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll paste the entire contract to a pastebin if you want, it's short and doesn't have that much agoraspeak. < 1223997452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1223997516 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ehird < 1223997536 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you were talking about the PBA in #esoteric? How evil! < 1223997541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1223997754 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: do you have an algorithm for eodermdomizing a graph? <--- not yet, but I should be able to think of one < 1223997781 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Though admittedly deciding between Perl and Prolog for .pl needs some heuristics, at least. <--- I thought Prolog was .pro... < 1223997794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1223997796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolog is .pl < 1223997799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it used it before perl < 1223997874 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I read through Prolog manuals before Perl was invented, and they used .pro < 1223997889 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I suspect that both were in common usage, even before Perl arrived and muddled the situation < 1223998115 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prolog is also .pro, yes. < 1223998159 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But at least SWI-Prolog uses .pl by default; the manual does say .pro is a common alternative if you want to change the default extension. < 1223999174 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1223999556 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Haskell files are usually .hs, and Schemers use .scm. < 1223999566 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also .lhs, for literate syntax < 1223999580 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TECO invented literate programming before it was invented < 1223999586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its effective comment marker is a toggle-comment < 1223999593 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1223999598 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so literate programs end up equivalent to illiterate programs < 1223999614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"effective comment marker", because TECO comments are done by creating labels with implausible names < 1224000020 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Heh. I wonder if Agora will have a coinciding economic crisis to the real world. < 1224000055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: mmyes? < 1224000060 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't Agora have economic crises more often than the world economy changes at all? < 1224000098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well... if by "crises" you mean "someone gets infinite of a currency and they make a clone contract without the flaw"... < 1224000103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then yes. :-P < 1224000122 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought so < 1224000380 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: do you have an algorithm for eodermdomizing a graph? <--- not yet, but I should be able to think of one < 1224000401 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from what i could see an optimal solution solves the hamiltonian graph problem :D < 1224000416 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1224000417 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a planar graph, a nice simple awful algorithm would be to eodermdromize each region individually recursively < 1224000429 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm wrong, it's the eulerian graph problem < 1224000442 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is easily solvable < 1224000444 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that probably leads to an efficient solution < 1224000465 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... it's very easy to tell if a graph's Eulerian < 1224000481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to find the shortest eodermdromizing if it isn't is potentially interesting, though < 1224000487 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1224000492 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably you try all possible pairs of odd vertices to double the paths between < 1224000572 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm this sounds like it should be a known problem. < 1224000583 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is, I remember reading about it in a textbook somewhere < 1224000590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately I can't remember what it's called, or what the solution was < 1224000785 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Route_inspection_problem < 1224001532 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-33-69.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224003570 0 :Mony!n=AssHole@AToulouse-258-1-104-60.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224003718 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plop < 1224003747 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Mony < 1224003757 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1224006970 0 :ENKI-][!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1224007356 0 :ENKI-][!n=weechat@c-71-234-190-248.hsd1.ct.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1224007393 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1224008036 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1224008293 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@m-110.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1224009658 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r01jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1224009824 0 :boily!n=boily@poste46-167.wl.t.ulaval.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1224009920 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1224009957 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r01jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1224010067 0 :shorty5!n=shorty@host-091-097-201-115.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1224010091 0 :shorty5!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1224010102 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1224010483 0 :boily!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1224013229 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ne regrettons pas le passé, ne nous préoccupons pas de l'avenir : le sage vit dans le présent." < 1224013646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1224013650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi AnMaster < 1224013677 0 :atrapado!i=ro@cm36185.red83-165.mundo-r.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1224013904 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-031-154.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1224014405 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@" < 1224015642 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That -Os recompile? < 1224015646 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy fuck did it help. < 1224015653 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that mean it did, or didn't? < 1224015669 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It did. < 1224015675 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By quite a lot. < 1224015676 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did it help with? < 1224015697 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speed and memory usage. < 1224015739 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to mention global warming, teeth decay and belly button lint < 1224015751 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Low cache size, relatively small amount of memory, and slow swap means that -O2 system-wide is not all that beneficial... < 1224016069 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: real men compile by hand < 1224016085 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-17-84.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224016091 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when space is an issue < 1224016248 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Space wasn't *that* much of an issue. < 1224016286 0 :slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CODE... IN... SPAAAAAAACE! < 1224016363 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real men only write code for their 8742s < 1224016376 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and/or rebuilt lunar guidance computer < 1224016394 0 :slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8742s? < 1224016455 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an early microcontroller < 1224016463 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<256 bytes of ram < 1224016515 0 :slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How early? < 1224016524 0 :slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :256 bytes sounds pretty early < 1224016534 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :No route to host < 1224016534 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1224016536 0 :slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could probably build that with an analytic engine < 1224016551 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seventies < 1224017260 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1224017623 0 :slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1224017625 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-39-168.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224017854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :tusho < 1224017891 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1224018426 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | http://pasteserver.net/paste/show/260 < 1224018595 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: no fair, that has expired < 1224018595 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you might want to try this: +[>print<[,----------]+] < 1224018832 0 :ab5tract!n=ab5tract@pool-71-246-5-13.phlapa.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1224018888 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-031-154.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1224018900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood < 1224018943 0 :ehird!n=ehird@eso-std.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1224018951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood < 1224018987 0 :ehird!n=ehird@eso-std.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1224019013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood < 1224019030 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1224019039 0 :ais523!n=ais523@eso-std.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1224019054 0 :ehird!n=ehird@eso-std.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1224019822 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ul (is this still working?)S < 1224019823 0 :thutubot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this still working? < 1224019825 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1224019919 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh :D < 1224019962 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :comex-- < 1224020416 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (yay)S < 1224020423 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1224020429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: aha < 1224020431 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A little bit slower... < 1224020439 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that using the BF version of Underload? < 1224020444 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:aSS):aSS < 1224020449 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still the Brainfuck one, haven't had time to fungotize the Funge-98 implementation I did. < 1224020450 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ul (:aSS):aSS < 1224020450 0 :thutubot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(:aSS):aSS < 1224020452 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...out of time! < 1224020452 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i use a lot more < 1224020522 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fis@eris:~/src/bef$ echo '(:aSS):aSS' | ~/inst/rcfunge/rcfunge/funge -S underload.b98 < 1224020526 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(:aSS):aSS < 1224020528 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all done. < 1224020551 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... have you posted that program online anywhere? < 1224020556 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be interesting to see how it works < 1224020638 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works pretty much by doing exactly what the command descriptions in http://esolangs.org/wiki/Underload say. STRN fingerprint G/P/A commands are used to manipulate strings, and the stack is kept on one line of zero-terminated strings in Funge-space, growing to the negative direction. < 1224020677 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1224020681 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is also utterly boring and readable Befunge code. :/ < 1224020683 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zem.fi/~fis/underload.b98.txt < 1224020712 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, looks simple enough < 1224020736 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And RC/Funge-98 fails on anything that tries to concatenate two strings whose total length is 1000 characters or more, due to the use of a fixed-size buffer and strcat. < 1224020747 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the word "unterminated" looks great when written backwards < 1224020752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^reverse unterminated < 1224020756 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^rev unterminated < 1224020756 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :detanimretnu < 1224020767 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^rev not supported < 1224020768 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :detroppus ton < 1224020771 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one is also nice. < 1224020774 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224020782 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's in fungot sources when it loads the fingerprints.) < 1224020782 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: " that", which was the size before? < 1224020808 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, concatting long strings is kind-of common in Underload... < 1224020830 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the factorial program on esolangs.org only works for inputs up to 6. < 1224020857 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fis@eris:~/src/bef$ echo '(:::::::):(:((^:()~((:)*~^)a~*^!!()~^))~*()~^^)~(^a(*~^)*a~*()~^!()~^)a~**^!!^S' | ~/inst/rcfunge/rcfunge/funge -S underload.b98 < 1224020860 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Segmentation fault < 1224020981 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fibonacci gets up to 610, the next one (which should actually be only 987 stars) segfaults. < 1224021099 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 99 bottles of beer song works, though. (If I strip newlines -- the program input in the standalone version stops at \n.) < 1224021414 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1224021432 0 :Asztal!n=asztal@cpc3-stkn2-0-0-cust106.midd.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1224021589 0 :comex--!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :comex < 1224021657 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1224022064 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Funge version isn't especially _fast_, but it's really a couple of magnitudes faster than the Brainfuck-on-Funge version. ~14 seconds to run 99 bottles of beer. < 1224022069 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Abandonando" < 1224022219 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, something for an esoteric shootout that :P < 1224022246 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I wonder how it competes against the Thutu version? < 1224022432 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't have a Thutu implementation or the Thutu Underload thing. Are they available somewhere? < 1224022464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I think so < 1224022470 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I just have to remember where < 1224022494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/files/thutu/ < 1224022518 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, Thutu always looks like that < 1224022521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least when I write it < 1224022525 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably other people would be cleaner < 1224022537 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/files/thutu/src/ul.t2 is the Underload interpreter < 1224022549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/files/thutu/impl/thutu.pl is a Thutu to Perl compiler < 1224022614 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1224022639 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I implemented ^ so that it just places the string on top of the stack so that its last character replaces the ^; then suitably decrements the "current instruction" value so that it starts incrementing. That means that something like (:^foobar):^ will make the program extend into negative X coordinates of the funge-space. < 1224022724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that sounds like a reasonable implementation < 1224022945 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1224022969 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I did "perl thutu.pl < ul.t2 > ul.pl" and then "time cat 99.ul | perl ul.pl"... on this system it takes ~22 seconds to run the same 99-bottles-of-beer program. < 1224022979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I'm not surprised < 1224022981 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thutu is very slow < 1224022989 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when long strings are involved < 1224022996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it slows down when it's trying to store more in memory < 1224023007 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of like BF programs slow down when thinking about large numbers < 1224023027 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I'm hoping AnMaster won't notice the useless use of cat there in the timing. :p < 1224023042 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, that isn't a useless use of cat < 1224023047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it actually took slightly longer < 1224023057 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're timing how long it takes cat to pipe its information into the Underload interp < 1224023061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than the Underload interp itself < 1224023071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time perl ul.pl < 99.ul would take slightly longer, I suspect < 1224023097 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think bash's "time" times the whole pipeline, actually. It's not a real command. < 1224023105 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1224023185 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; bash manpage: "The format for a pipeline is: [time [-p]] [ ! ] command [ | command2 ... ] -- If the time reserved word precedes a pipeline, the elapsed as well as user and system time consumed by its execution are reported when the pipeline terminates." < 1224023323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thutu's kind-of hard to write in, because the entire program's in a loop and the end of the loop is the only place you can do I/O < 1224023329 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have to do a lot of state-saving and such < 1224023368 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a nice lang apart from that and the huge inefficiency, though, sometimes I use wimpmode Thutu to write things if I can't think of any other way to write them < 1224023832 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should have a #esoteric hardware project < 1224023848 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :were we collaboratively build a proccessor < 1224023852 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: interesting < 1224023863 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are notes on a native-INTERCAL processor somewhere < 1224023870 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but native Befunge-93 would probably be easier < 1224023900 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the language doesn't have to be esoteric < 1224023904 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the actual hardware < 1224023908 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie, pneumatics < 1224023970 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had vague notions of designing a Befunge coprocessor for the "design a MIPS CPU" course -- the project-work was graded so that you got the best grade if you added "any coprosessor you like" -- officially you were supposed to do the MIPS FPU coprosessor, for which the specs were given, but that wasn't actually a "must". < 1224024001 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I just skipped the course and did some signal-processing instead. :/ < 1224024018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would anyone want a Befunge coprocessor? < 1224024026 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, this is #esoteric, scratch that < 1224024040 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you could run your Befunge programs faster. < 1224024045 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Duh." < 1224024055 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'twould be pretty hard to get compilers to make use of that, I'd think... < 1224024097 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. Although it could be more like a Befunge device than a "coprocessor" in the traditional sense. < 1224024256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I want to invent an esolang which can only be efficiently interpreted by a high-end GPU < 1224024263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and CPUs are ridiculously slow at < 1224024271 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not really sure how GPUs work, so I don't think I can < 1224024430 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The GPU programming languages (like Nvidia's Cg) seem a bit esoteric already, the little that I've seen of them. < 1224024454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, most programming languages are eso < 1224024467 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they're intended for anything but running on a standard processor < 1224024570 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the easiest way would be to force execution to be massively paralell < 1224024654 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno how you would do that though < 1224024691 0 :ENKI-][!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1224024711 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:29… ais523: it's a nice lang apart from that and the huge inefficiency, though, sometimes I use wimpmode Thutu to write things if I can't think of any other way to write them <<< did you mean you sometimes use thutu's wimpmode when you can't think of a way to write a program in conventional languages? < 1224024716 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I did < 1224024726 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1224024732 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only known Forte interp's written in wimpmode Thutu < 1224024738 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't think of another way to do it < 1224024746 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than effectively compiling the Thutu in my head and writing Perl < 1224024758 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was first asking that as a joke, then realized it's actually more probably you *did* mean it that way < 1224024762 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*probable < 1224024805 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps i should try thutu too, can't be that bad < 1224024814 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, i gotta read -> < 1224024850 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet oerjan knows < 1224024860 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another way to do it? < 1224024867 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, oerjan tried and never got very far < 1224024898 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a way to design a language were execution has to be paralell < 1224024927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1224025037 0 :ENKI-][!n=weechat@c-71-234-190-248.hsd1.ct.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1224025081 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1224025568 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1224026108 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric