< 1224201906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who wants to test my magical dice roller? < 1224202285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ? < 1224202299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: GregorR oklopol < 1224202310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq. Sgeo. your mom. < 1224202344 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird ehird ehird ehird ehird ehird ehird ehird ehird < 1224202356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1224202364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: WILL YOU TEST MY IMMUNE-TO-CHEATING IRC-BASED DICE SYSTEM <3 < 1224202373 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it. < 1224202381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not < 1224202385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just copy&pasting ;_; < 1224202390 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you lamepinged me :P < 1224202402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Because nobody is onlinnnnnnnnnnnnne < 1224202403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1224202410 0 :Jiminy_Cricket!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll test it, ehird, as long as it doesn't require too much thought. < 1224202430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jiminy_Cricket: If you're on a UNIX-like system with Python, then the rest is just copy&paste from the output of a script < 1224202440 0 :Jiminy_Cricket!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I'm on Windows < 1224202455 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stares at his beautiful running Python interpreter. < 1224202473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jiminy_Cricket: Oh. I could make it use the equiv. to /dev/random, but, tomorrow. < 1224202476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: ^____^ < 1224202482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY SO HERE'S WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO < 1224202502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll give you an initial line, which will be 'roll ' < 1224202509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Run 'python roll.py ' and paste my line in. < 1224202517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll get another line back. Paste it to the channel. < 1224202524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FInally, I'll paste the result line. < 1224202533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Paste that into the script, if it prints OK, no cheating has happened! < 1224202534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray! < 1224202550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For being my side, add an additional argument of 'alice', and do the same paste/copy dance. < 1224202556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This could be automated in a client. < 1224202563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: AND HERE IS THE SCRIPT < 1224202579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: http://pastebin.ca/raw/1228858 < 1224202585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. Here goes: < 1224202590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :roll 100 e1d33f5e2ac718ae227cf58ace285a9dfc7c49f0 < 1224202644 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rolled 3 < 1224202659 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm, wait, I think I borkled it a bit. < 1224202673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Did you run it with the second argument being 100? < 1224202680 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therein lies the problem :P < 1224202681 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rolled < 1224202682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1224202685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1224202686 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copy/paste error < 1224202688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you rolled the empty string? < 1224202689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow :D < 1224202693 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rolled 28 < 1224202702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :final roll 51 (YQjgBLnVeM3sGFNfrdTOEQV622w3S7K6tnEIEeNVLQVPw7HHBrQM3jISxYhY42oLIeU=) < 1224202735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If that prints 'OK', then the final rolled number is 51. < 1224202736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it? < 1224202746 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1224202749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay. < 1224202760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Now let's do that fast, to simulate a real-world situation. < 1224202764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :roll 100 cf620c82c9c9941ffee2e101b6383a2916515c5e < 1224202780 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rolled < 1224202782 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 < 1224202787 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suck at copy/pasting aparently. < 1224202788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :final roll 18 (ATjJBwI1F4Mp9KM2Kq3qLpoTwCG4sM7huK20GBLQeNWKEXUXEGLj6EQ9Ko31htPtoQ8=) < 1224202790 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*apparently < 1224202801 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1224202804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray. < 1224202814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's, basically, how it works: < 1224202823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It gets 50 bytes of random data from /dev/random. < 1224202830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seeds a prng with them. < 1224202838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It generates a random number from 0 to (sides/2). < 1224202846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It then gives you the hash of the seed. < 1224202857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, the other side does the same but prints out the number in plaintext. < 1224202876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, when 'alice' gets the number, it adds them together, and prints out the result, along with the base64-encoded text of the 50 random bytes. < 1224202887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When 'bob' puts in that, < 1224202897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it verifies that the base64 version hashes the same as the original hash < 1224202909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it seeds the prng with the bytes < 1224202916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and generates a random number, etc < 1224202923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and checks that it's equal to (final_result - bobs_number) < 1224202929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because, with the same seed, it should be the same, of course) < 1224202940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this assures that the original number was not tampered with after seeing yours < 1224202955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since both halves are involved in the creation of the final number, < 1224202961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one single party can't cheat to get a number to their advantage < 1224202966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless they can predict another system's /dev/random... :P) < 1224202969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TADA < 1224202986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Neato / not neato < 1224203003 0 :Jiminy_Cricket!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poor Alice and Bob < 1224203019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jiminy_Cricket: :o < 1224203035 0 :Jiminy_Cricket!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having to do so much work just to prevent cheating < 1224203037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I'd say the above ain't bad for a 48 lines script < 1224203070 0 :Jiminy_Cricket!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1224203085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jiminy_Cricket: Like you wouldn't cheat if, online, you were tasked with rolling the die and there was a certain number that would make you win :-P < 1224203094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although a game with something like that would be hideously imbalanced. < 1224203106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, this'd be improved with a client plugin that does it. < 1224203124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you could do /roll myotherperson 100 and the two clients would go through the motions. < 1224203135 0 :Jiminy_Cricket!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't generally play games in the first place that involve dice rolling < 1224203148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jiminy_Cricket: But what about your secret government intercepting mission plot?! < 1224203151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW WILL YOU DO THAT < 1224203157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh snap. < 1224203165 0 :Jiminy_Cricket!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The answer to that is always 42. < 1224203176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is some lame die < 1224203260 0 :Jiminy_Cricket!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1224203412 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Do it once more. < 1224203422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: You be alice this time? < 1224203431 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, the exploit is on the bob side X-P < 1224203439 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If I understand how this works) < 1224203443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :roll 100 33248a78e79acc6449bc3a33f8cfe091fca71de1 < 1224203461 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would love for this roll to be below 50, so I'm gonna go ahead and say < 1224203462 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rolled 1 < 1224203472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :final roll 22 (bKog8Sj6d+Drz08+aVajVZaRPgFCWL4HtggJZPAFSn1hkdUL2bPB6IMnOj67H4bRhUQ=) < 1224203474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah, that works. < 1224203478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can't actually precisely do anything. < 1224203488 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but usually it's the range you care about. < 1224203489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1224203492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: it's easy to fix < 1224203496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of two /2 numbers added < 1224203502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have two full numbers, added together, modulo. < 1224203515 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There ya goes. < 1224203519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOWEVER < 1224203529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That means the final answer has to have another field < 1224203537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait no < 1224203540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means it's unworkable, I think < 1224203559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: How do you get a from ((a + b) % x) if you know b and x?? < 1224203576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it even possible :| < 1224203581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or am i having a brainfart < 1224203582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at 0:33 < 1224203670 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know multiplication is not generally reversible, but addition should be. < 1224203691 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(y-b)%x where y was your result? < 1224203724 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems to work < 1224203871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: oh, right < 1224203873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll do it tomorrow < 1224203893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1224204728 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1224205893 0 :CakeProphet!n=bread@h238.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1224205929 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1224207846 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1224207915 0 :CakeProphet!n=bread@h37.40.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1224212827 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | after I... squash the countless bugs. < 1224213190 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey GregorR < 1224213194 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what hat did you wear today < 1224213220 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't find the one voted for so I wore my porkpie. < 1224213499 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/hats/BritDrivingCap-med.jpg < 1224213501 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one is pretty cool < 1224213890 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you should fly in on Saturday :P < 1224214374 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting... the newest noscript gives me "Clickjacking" warnings on choosemyhat.com if I click outside the table... o_O < 1224214387 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seemingly randomly, too < 1224214522 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-236-142-205.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1224214542 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ersion nickser < 1224214545 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1224214557 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid client < 1224214610 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot hi < 1224214611 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis: is there a way to < 1224214614 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot yes < 1224214614 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis: when i flunk out of life, the universe and everything < 1224214628 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot you're not part of life the universe and everythingh < 1224214628 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis: and there's the configuration edition thingie, at least < 1224214643 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot yeah that config edition is really stupid < 1224214644 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis: now, we have a /pub for images and such < 1224214653 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1224214953 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1224217412 0 :ab5tract!n=ab5tract@pool-71-246-5-13.phlapa.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1224217458 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot bring da mthfckn ruckus < 1224217458 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract: ( how did the day turn out, points of contention here: < 1224217472 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: word up < 1224217473 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract: oy vei. don't have that < 1224217488 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems you got plenty to me friend. < 1224218491 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: dig the spec < 1224218738 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :honored to take part, if you end up going with hasp < 1224219799 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the reflecting compare, but i also like the 'C|-' syntax. would it be totally unreasonable to ask for both? < 1224221897 0 :Elizabot!n=Elizabot@125-236-142-205.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1224222360 0 :Elizabot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1224222730 0 :Elizabot!n=Elizabot@125-236-142-205.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1224222740 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving..." < 1224223929 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo elizabot: Hi. < 1224223929 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elizabot: Hi. elizabot: Hi. < 1224223931 0 :Elizabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Please go on. < 1224223932 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizabot: or, more properly, in python < 1224223932 0 :Elizabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: What does that suggest to you ? < 1224223933 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizabot: or set-car! to a non-char type analysis ( so you always get a car later) < 1224223933 0 :Elizabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Can you think of a specific example ? < 1224223934 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizabot: part of your colon? < 1224223934 0 :Elizabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Why are you concerned over my colon ? < 1224223934 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizabot: i'm still on the todo list, but it was < 1224223935 0 :Elizabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Is it because you are still on the todo list that you came to me ? < 1224223943 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1224224006 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1224224218 0 :psygnisfive!n=psygnisf@c-71-57-164-119.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1224224419 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You get a%x from (a+b)%x if you know b and x; doesn't matter, of course, if you limit yourself to numbers in [0, x-1]. And if you noticed, I did use numbers [0, 19] for d20 precisely for that reason. < 1224225223 0 :Elizabot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1224225974 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: insane in the membrane < 1224225992 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: (insane in the BRaIN! < 1224226046 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1224226067 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your first comment crasheded it. I _really_ need to debug that bug. < 1224226071 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer) < 1224226095 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1224226191 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one is that? < 1224226201 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: is it allergic to cypress hill? < 1224226210 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: insane in the membrane < 1224226210 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract: great that you found a new spot? < 1224226239 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel that way too. #esoteric is my ideal place to be fungot, thank you for noticing < 1224226240 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract: i always start with a < 1224226277 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one, yes. Since it's in the babble-generation code, it probably doesn't depend on the input; it just happens pretty rarely. < 1224226287 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: how would you imagine the ideal funge ide < 1224226309 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you think it would be possible to write a funge ide in funge < 1224226311 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1224226333 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming AnMaster comes through with the erlang threads < 1224226336 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1224226337 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not without some GUI toolkit binding fingerprint, no. Although there's WIND, but that's windows-only and so very primitive. < 1224226365 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any gooey kits for erlang? < 1224226387 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know about Erlang; I'm sure there are, most languages seem to have bindings. < 1224226395 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but theoretically it would be possible < 1224226403 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be pretty dope < 1224226418 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, maybe a text-based funge IDE, with TERM... but I think a GUI thing would have more opportunities for displaying things. < 1224226423 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a pretty good idea of how i would want to use it < 1224226438 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/use/implement/ < 1224226446 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1224226478 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs to be able to render the broader map < 1224226537 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then various levels of zoom and with a heirarchical fingerprint/method list < 1224226556 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way we could really start talking advantage of this 32-bit address space < 1224226569 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which we might as well bump up to 64 for fun :) < 1224226600 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the 3-d mode for trefunge... < 1224226610 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't cfunge already do that? At least it does 64-bit cells, it only stands to reason the cell addresses are 64-bit too. < 1224226626 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have to be equal to fit spec < 1224226639 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're right i forgot < 1224226685 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the spec says "A Funge-98 interpreter, *ideally*, has an addressing range equal to that of its cell size." [emphasis mine] so maybe it's not a must. < 1224226694 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh < 1224226703 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're right < 1224226704 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, given how AnMaster is, I'd be surprised if it didn't. < 1224226713 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1224228848 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@i-197.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1224228974 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1224229148 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1224229229 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: My roommates think that you look like a princess in your Egyptian Kofia. < 1224229233 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thought you should know. < 1224230399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1224230400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1224230504 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1224230761 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol roommates < 1224231262 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so oerjan < 1224231272 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1224231291 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you force interpretation of a language to be parallel? < 1224231331 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did i or did i not mention that concurrency was one of my weak points yesterday? < 1224231349 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i wasn't here yesterday < 1224231430 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it surely depends on what you mean by 'force', since any parallel computation can be simulated on a sequential computer, just slower < 1224231447 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1224231450 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well how about this < 1224231488 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you force interpretation of a program with n instructions to take exp(n) times longer than a reasonable language? < 1224231582 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure parallel execution is enough to speed n instructions up by exp(n). < 1224231593 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks more like an NP oracle thing < 1224231610 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or PSPACE < 1224231624 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is with exp(n) threads < 1224231691 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... so the program is making a choice in each instruction, and the threads are used to do all options for all choices simultaneously < 1224231749 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that may be a bit more than NP, but probably not more than PSPACE < 1224231751 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can optimize that though < 1224231780 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the same way you convert a nondeterministic fsm to deterministic fsm < 1224231803 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however in any case it is still an unsolved mathematical problem whether any of those are actually intrinsically slower < 1224231919 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and maybe if the parallel threads can communicate you can get something harder < 1224231933 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want an EXPTIME problem. < 1224232088 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i don't know < 1224232223 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe a syntax that takes exponential time to parse < 1224232360 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well general grammars (more than context-free) are TC to parse < 1224232379 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and context-sensitive are PSPACE-complete < 1224232736 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: forcing parallellism is one of the things I'm dealing with in my University 4th-year projects < 1224232939 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you want to force parallellism? < 1224233413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : DRAFT! DRAFT! DRAFT! DRAFT! DRAFT! DRAFT! DRAFT! DRAFT! DRAFT! DRAFT! DRAFT! < 1224233415 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I like the way that some people seem to disregard such warnings anyway < 1224233488 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :draft can be dangerous to your health you know. there was this norwegian woman who ended up with a painful disease that ruined her face... < 1224234428 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | he says there's nine bytes of padding < 1224234577 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a bit close for comfort < 1224235033 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1224235036 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have an esolang idea < 1224235038 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wanna hear? < 1224235041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224235048 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's the 3-sat thing < 1224235062 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, i think i've found a way to do numbers now < 1224235073 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by that i mean, assign rationals to the vars < 1224235081 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and perform division and multiplication between them < 1224235090 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but let's start with syntax < 1224235096 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i interrupting something? < 1224235109 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaanyway, the syntax, currently, consists of just a list of variables < 1224235116 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are four ways to denote a variable < 1224235131 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh my silent meditation, you're ruining it! < 1224235139 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ways are a..z, A..Z, .a.b.c....z, .A.B.C....Z < 1224235158 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a..z and A..Z are simply variables that aren't in any way special < 1224235176 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.a and friends are variables, that are always true with a 0.5 probability < 1224235187 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a is the negation of A, and .a is the negation of .A < 1224235195 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now < 1224235211 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual program consists of triples, written simply by concatenating three variables < 1224235217 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, a line of code could be < 1224235226 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Abc ABc AbC ABC < 1224235257 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means (A or not B or not C) and (A or B or not C) and ... < 1224235269 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on every line, 3-sat is run on the set of clauses < 1224235288 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now this is simple sofar, we've just set A to 1 < 1224235294 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224235299 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1224235303 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, this is the interesting part < 1224235333 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's assume we haven't set A to anything, and start with no vars set < 1224235346 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can set A to 0.5 by doing something like this < 1224235389 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A.aB A.ab a.AB a.Ab < 1224235408 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you cannot see why, which i'm assuming you don't, i can show how to deduce that < 1224235453 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we start with A = .A, because we want to set A to 0.5, that is, we want to "make A true with a 0.5 probability" < 1224235483 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(.A's value has nothing to do with A's value initially, i'm just starting naming from A with both kinds of vars) < 1224235518 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A = .A) = (a ^ .a) v (A ^ .A) < 1224235580 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i actually used a truth table, thought i could deduce this easily :P < 1224235581 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmhmm < 1224235612 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a ^ .a) v (A ^ .A) = (a ^ .a ^ b) v (A ^ .A ^ B) v (a ^ .a ^ b) v (A ^ .A ^ b) < 1224235625 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is clearly true, we've added a variable that, given either value, makes this true < 1224235665 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, we should turn the minterm representation into a maxterm one < 1224235697 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we take all the cases that make the statement false < 1224235730 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, (A ^ .a ^ b) v (A ^ .a ^ B) v (a ^ .A ^ b) v (a ^ .A ^ b) < 1224235748 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we kinda flip it, to get < 1224235766 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A v .a v b) ^ (A v .a v B) ^ (a v .A v b) ^ (a v .A v b) < 1224235804 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then it's a simply syntactic manipulation to get A.aB A.ab a.AB a.Ab < 1224235811 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1224235837 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i actually had an error there, let's see where i made it... < 1224235842 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should've prepared this :P < 1224235852 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah don't worry < 1224235860 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you get it? < 1224235860 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try preparing and then pastebinning < 1224235865 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, I haven't done yet < 1224235871 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I haven't really being paying attention < 1224235875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still in go-through-email phase < 1224235879 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1224235881 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I was planning to logread it later < 1224235892 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah i see < 1224235901 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well perhaps i'll do it properly in a pastebin < 1224235924 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1224235934 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems i need to go now. be back as soon as possible < 1224235942 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because this is not even the interesting part yet < 1224235944 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1224236118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : assuming AnMaster comes through with the erlang threads < 1224236119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Still, given how AnMaster is, I'd be surprised if it didn't. < 1224236121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1224236176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Doesn't cfunge already do that? At least it does 64-bit cells, it only stands to reason the cell addresses are 64-bit too. <-- well yeah < 1224236181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and efunge have bignum cells < 1224236213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hi btw < 1224236223 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi AnMaster < 1224236232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, have you seen the ATR spec? < 1224236239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait yeah you posted the DRAFT bit < 1224236244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, well allowing for the typo yes < 1224236255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what typo? < 1224236259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ATR spec" < 1224236263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1224236283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I just had breakfast, and I'm not a person that is good with mornings < 1224236290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, same < 1224236295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I'm alright with mornings < 1224236300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only if I've had a good night's sleep < 1224236300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway, any comments on the spec? < 1224236303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I haven't < 1224236310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also mutex needs to be renamed < 1224236316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hasp" was a good suggestion < 1224236321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you got something better? < 1224236329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lock is too common as well < 1224236330 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't normally deal with that sort of threading stuff < 1224236341 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the threading stuff I deal with is much crazier < 1224236345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is "mutex" and "lock" are too common words < 1224236347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for this < 1224236357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I need a better, more original name < 1224236357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it like INTERCAL, have commands which dynamically delete themselves from the playfield when encountered < 1224236364 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :atomically with whatever it is they were meant to be doing in the first place < 1224236369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1224236390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, making stuff atomic here isn't very easy I'm afraid :/ < 1224236417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, either it is async message passing (or blocking waiting for reply) < 1224236433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it is the set of actions restricted by ets tables < 1224236442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1224236452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the G P and C will need some complex locking < 1224236458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah for C to work < 1224236476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that an implementation _may_ make g, p and other such instructions < 1224236476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :synchronous as well, but it is not guaranteed. Block access should never be < 1224236476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :synchronous. < 1224236484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least to begin with that will be true < 1224236489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for my implementation < 1224236501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g, p and such will be sync as well that is < 1224236552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway do you have any knowledge of pthreads? Would this be painful to implement there? < 1224236566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have much knowledge of pthreads, and no idea < 1224236570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1224236628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be reasonably ok in erlang, only need G,P and C to handle a global lock there, since there is no atomic thing I can use as C on ets tables < 1224237366 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :be back soon, rebooting (I've just upgraded the kernel) < 1224239382 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p545622444.txt < 1224239387 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: back yet? < 1224239393 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224239399 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can find out by /pinging me < 1224239410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I'm not here you won't get a reply < 1224239447 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check that out, probably doesn't make that much sense, in which case you can ask further questions < 1224239450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I got a reply sometimes when you said just a few minutes after that your connection had failed < 1224239452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so hm < 1224239453 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming you'll read that at some point < 1224239472 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you have to wait for the bouncer to notice I'm not here first < 1224239476 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i hope you do, because i think it's a pretty interesting idea < 1224239570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, a question about that < 1224239573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(B = .A) ^ (c v C) < 1224239583 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes? < 1224239589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, are C and c variables? < 1224239591 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224239596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, and v? < 1224239598 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c is the negation of C, as i explain there < 1224239599 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1224239603 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"v" is "or" < 1224239611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, ".[A-Z] (and .[a-z]) denote variables (and their negations)" < 1224239615 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"^" is "and" < 1224239617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it is inconsistent < 1224239634 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1224239639 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should've escaped . i guess < 1224239648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, hm? < 1224239656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you need .c and .C? < 1224239660 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.[A-Z] as in, "\.[A-Z]" < 1224239661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that could work < 1224239671 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.[A-Z] aren't normal variables < 1224239673 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[A-Z] are < 1224239676 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: .[A-Z] is perfectly good wildmat syntax < 1224239691 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.[A-Z] (and .[a-z]) denote variables (and their negations) that are true with a 0.5 possibility < 1224239696 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1224239704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah, the issue was it seemed to suggest that v was also a variable < 1224239709 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems i've removed the line that explains actual variables :P < 1224239714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, yep < 1224239727 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well that's not the actual language's syntax, just logic to show how to deduce the program < 1224239756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, still better explain variables too < 1224239779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, is it turing complete or not? < 1224239867 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is it'll be turing-complete once oklopol figures out how to do flow control < 1224239877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224239940 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224239951 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sofar, i've only solved the issue of infinite storage < 1224239984 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: is it retrievable, though < 1224239989 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see how to store rationals into variables < 1224239992 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224239993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how do you get them back out again? < 1224239996 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1224240003 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm not *entirely* sure < 1224240017 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can "or" variables to get them to grow in probability < 1224240033 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'm pretty sure you can somehow encode integers that can be inc'd and dec'd < 1224240052 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1224240054 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224240066 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it's 3-sat, i'm pretty sure it's a two-way operation < 1224240067 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but being able to tinker with a probability is no good if you can't find out what it is < 1224240070 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can do something like < 1224240074 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224240082 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i could make things depend on whether something is 1 < 1224240085 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1224240088 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 can represent 0 < 1224240091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : are there any gooey kits for erlang? < 1224240091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Don't know about Erlang; I'm sure there are, most languages seem to have bindings. < 1224240093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there is gs < 1224240097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which uses tk < 1224240099 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 1/(2^n) can represent n < 1224240110 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, i can inc and dec as much as i want, and branch on 0 < 1224240116 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what register machines do < 1224240121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also seen some custom GUI toolkit rendered to opengl < 1224240125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :used by wings3d < 1224240131 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "erlgtk" in sf.net. < 1224240132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 3d modeller coded in erlang < 1224240137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm, erlqt? < 1224240154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway gs is there by default < 1224240162 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, A = B + 1: A = B ^ .A; A = B - 1: B = A ^ .A < 1224240200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is used for the erlang debugger and some other bits < 1224240212 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: got it? < 1224240236 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1224240256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on probability 1 seems a bit non-physical, really < 1224240259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I suppose it makes sense < 1224240270 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :atm, I'm just annoyed with this VHDL project I'm doing < 1224240279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote it recursively originally but it crashed the compiler < 1224240286 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I even got the compiler to segfault at one point) < 1224240288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway I guess one could provide bindings for esdl to efunge... Would be pretty mad probably < 1224240290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I rewrote it iterativel < 1224240293 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*iteratively < 1224240300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might as well have "evaluate erlang term" or such < 1224240302 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a pain for parallelised mergesort < 1224240337 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, now I'm trying it on a different compiler < 1224240341 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's reporting an internal error < 1224240345 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even for the iterative version < 1224240349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not very helpful < 1224240360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the line number it gives is in its own source code, only it's closed-source... < 1224240371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about using an open source one? < 1224240401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am, for simulation < 1224240402 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: non-physical? i'm using an np-complete operation as the basic unit of computation, you think i care? :P < 1224240409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: OK < 1224240419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and report that internal error as a bug to the developers < 1224240420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but you need proprietary synthesisers to synthesise for proprietary FPGAs < 1224240426 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the ones we have to use in the assignment < 1224240427 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably already tc if i just add a while loop. < 1224240455 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming i have a scope for the loops < 1224240461 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... not only is there an internal error, but the webpage that's meant to describe what the error is is 404 < 1224240471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ok that sucks < 1224240472 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I have to guess what the problem is < 1224240499 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably it's what VHDL was warning me about, for loops with exponentiation in the calculation of their bounds < 1224240529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and how do you avoid that? < 1224240529 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(VHDL is very weird, most langs wouldn't care about something like that, but you have to understand that synthesis-VHDL has + - and *, but / is only possible by a constant power of 2, for instance) < 1224240549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: my guess is to pass the entity both the number of bits and 2 to its power as generics < 1224240558 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then loop too many times and use ifs to do nothing when the loop counter is too high < 1224240560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1224240563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounded strange < 1224240569 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VHDL is strange < 1224240603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the only lang I know of where arrays are normally numbered backwards < 1224240612 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. the first element is some large number, the last element is 0 < 1224240626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why on earth? < 1224240641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because an integer is normally represented as an array of bits < 1224240645 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's the way bits are normally numbered < 1224240654 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gets very confusing trying to do it the other way round < 1224240662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1224240699 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone have ideas for a name for a language based on doing 3-sat with probabilities? < 1224240702 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say you have 128, as a std_logic_vector < 1224240706 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: this may be your field < 1224240714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you want to extract the least significant bit < 1224240724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slicing it with (0) makes a lot more sense than slicing it with (7) < 1224240729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yep, that depends on endianness < 1224240741 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you define the endianness yourself in VHDL < 1224240746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about if you want the most significant bit then? < 1224240750 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't like acronyms, i prefer puns of some kind < 1224240759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but bits within a byte are nearly always big-endian in practice < 1224240771 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you could write that as myvector'left < 1224240777 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, myvector(myvector'left) < 1224240789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does x86 have a bitendianness? < 1224240791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1224240802 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what is this x86 you're talking about? < 1224240808 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is VHDL a Lesser Language than Verilog? < 1224240815 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: they started out different < 1224240823 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by that i mean more low-level < 1224240824 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but after a while all the features from each were added to the other < 1224240828 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1224240832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, don't be silly, I was just wondering if bits are little- or big-endian on x86 < 1224240834 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just know verilog < 1224240836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so nowadays they're the same lang with different syntax < 1224240857 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the x86 doesn't have bit-extract operations IIRC < 1224240861 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's nice, syntax is what i learn the fastest < 1224240874 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the processors I know of that do number bits big-endian though < 1224240878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed it doesn't, but internally it need to have some endianess for them < 1224240883 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1224240884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1224240889 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bits are on parallel wires, normally < 1224240892 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no ideas for the name? guess i need to switch my brain to text mode < 1224240903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about serial interfaces then? < 1224240906 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're usually in math mode when designing the language < 1224240911 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: they can be defined either way round < 1224240922 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure offhand which RS-232 is < 1224240926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ok, what about sata? < 1224240927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is embarrasing because I ought to be < 1224240959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, "they"? < 1224240977 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i use plural and singular interchangeably when talking about brains < 1224241018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah the English way is pretty strange there... in Swedish you would use something like brainhalf when referring to the left or right part < 1224241079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: apparently SATA doesn't use either, it uses a lookup table to translate bytes into something more balanced < 1224241097 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :computers are fine with a glut of 1s or 0s < 1224241102 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fun thing about loops is, this language is like prolog in that nothing you state is forgotten, ever, unless things go out of scope < 1224241108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but fast cables don't like sending the same bit lots of times in a row < 1224241117 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the program is just an incredibly big set of clauses :P < 1224241122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh < 1224241127 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's try writing an infinite loop and invent flow control < 1224241140 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically it uses a lookup table to map the 256 possible bytes onto sets of 10 bits with balanced 0s and 1s < 1224241145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus no endianess involved < 1224241188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about using more than 1/0 when sending, having say 1,1.5,2,2.5 or so < 1224241209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't help in practice for digital signals < 1224241216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean generically it ought to be good data compression < 1224241222 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the data rate stays the same, because the noise susceptability gets worse < 1224241228 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so say you use 4 logic levels < 1224241237 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to halve the speed to keep the signal/noise performance the same < 1224241242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, did anyone ever use that on old modems to provide higher speed? < 1224241268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seriously doubt it, doubling the clock rate is normally a lot cheaper in circuitry than doubling the number of logic levels < 1224241274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm < 1224241276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1224241278 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, that sort of technique is used on radio signals all the time < 1224241283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1224241284 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as they don't have constant voltages anyway < 1224241288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean for vlan and such? < 1224241290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1224241291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wlan* < 1224241306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that sort of thing < 1224241312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1224241313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also on wires which are sending waves rather than pulses < 1224241323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's less common, normally only used for fibre optics and such < 1224241327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224241335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because light is inherently a wave < 1224241348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, as well as a particle :P < 1224241370 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224241381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the wave-like nature matters more if you're sending with lots of photons at once < 1224241389 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which most communication systems do < 1224241412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway having 4 logic levels would allow you to encode bit-pairs. like 00 01 10 11 < 1224241440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which ought to double the speed in theory < 1224241514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't even need to describe an uneven number of bits, since bytes are 8 bits and you never send anything less than bytes anyway < 1224241722 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1224241899 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: this may be your field < 1224241903 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no immediate ideas < 1224241926 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p633146536.txt <<< using the vars as numbers < 1224241951 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, NoProb pops up < 1224241968 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a justification for No? < 1224241980 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only to make the pun work < 1224241989 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the initials < 1224241993 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1224241996 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow i missed that < 1224242032 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you see, i need to be able to explain all the parts of the name to myself < 1224242038 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :out of the realm of the pun < 1224242053 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be completely sensible both as a pun and as just a name < 1224242054 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1224242085 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a good name < 1224242092 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1224242103 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankses! < 1224242112 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmhmm < 1224242138 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looping is a bit hard to do, because i don't want to do it like prolog does, and i don't want mutable variables < 1224242171 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i want an explicit looping construct with scoping so i can create new variables < 1224242205 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1224242221 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i'll just start from the top, and convert something prolog-like into < 1224242224 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :explicit looping < 1224242263 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, basically i want a construct that simulates tail-recursion < 1224242338 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a while loop that's basically a procedure, the "scope" is simply the list of arguments, and after the loop, we recurse with some variables we created in the body as the new arguments < 1224242349 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll try making an example < 1224242368 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, the lecturer here has solved my VHDL compiler problem < 1224242372 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by giving me a third compiler < 1224242383 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and it seems to handle the code fine) < 1224242864 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, VHDL is the only lang I think I've ever written a for loop which only ever iterates once < 1224242922 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always exactly once? or once or zero < 1224242930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always exactly once < 1224242947 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this seemed like a good idea at the time? < 1224242955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still seems like a good idea now < 1224242957 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it saved a lot of typing < 1224242973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically I used it to define a variable at compile-time < 1224242976 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'm pretty sure he's written brainfuck, and i'm pretty sure he's done ifs < 1224242978 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except < 1224242980 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a constant with a calculated value < 1224242981 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're while-loops < 1224242985 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ignore me. < 1224243002 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by having it at both ends of the control range < 1224243009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and using the iteration count as a constant < 1224243024 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for-generate loops are always unrolled at compile time in VHDL < 1224243029 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm taking advantage of that here < 1224243113 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this just a way to simulate functional-style let expressions? < 1224243123 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224243154 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that the expression in question is (2**inputcountbits)*((depth*(depth-1)/2)-1)+(2**depth)*height, I think it was justified < 1224243168 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I use that value 12 times within the 'loop' < 1224243181 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just surprised there is no simpler way < 1224243200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally speaking people don't do expressions that complicated at compile-time < 1224243210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I even have a compile-time bit-reversal function < 1224243214 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's written as a procedure < 1224243226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can do that because it's never involved in the control variable of a for-generate loop < 1224243238 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah so it's something Man was not meant to do < 1224243254 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly some good Mad Science, then < 1224243263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, more to the point, it's because most of VHDL is deliberately limited to simple stuff < 1224243270 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because most VHDL synthesisers are stupid < 1224243286 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance there are some cases where and isn't commutative < 1224243299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simply because if you write the arguments the other way round, the synthesiser won't recognise the idiom < 1224243312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so one way round works, the other is a compile failure < 1224243418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so non-idiomatic VHDL is a bad idea? < 1224243422 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224243427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1224243430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to memorise the idioms more or less < 1224243449 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... it's sufficiently annoying, actually, that I'm thinking about writing a compiler from non-idiomatic VHDL to idiomatic VHDL < 1224243469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which let you express all the things which are very difficult to express in idiomatic VHDL < 1224243493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heheh... < 1224243528 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, it took me about an hour to figure out how to express a latch that can be sampled at the leading edge of any of a set of clocks < 1224243537 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it involves a latch for each clock, and lots of XORs < 1224243559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so each clock toggles one latch whenever it wants to toggle the output, and the latch's outputs are xored together < 1224243608 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nonidiomatically you just need to write leading_edge(clock1) or leading_edge(clock2), which is so much simpler... < 1224243760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1224243798 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, going to get lunch now, I'll be back in a bit < 1224244258 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais is 523 feet tall < 1224244622 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, i think the language's semantics are complete now, and i think it's TC, but it's so weird i'm not sure i have the courage to spec it. < 1224244632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye ais523 < 1224244638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and hi ais523) < 1224244783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:20:19 ehird: You get a%x from (a+b)%x if you know b and x; doesn't matter, of course, if you limit yourself to numbers in [0, x-1]. And if you noticed, I did use numbers [0, 19] for d20 precisely for that reason. < 1224244796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but, there are two rolls of sides that added mod sides < 1224244873 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's what I did. < 1224244927 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" I want to roll a d20, my hash is -- okay, my [1, *20*] random number is " < 1224244993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the point is, at the end, you have to use the crazy hash data to seed the prng, generate a number (which will be equal to a's!!), then check that it's alice's part < 1224244995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if ((alices_num + num) % sides) == final: < 1224244997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems to work fine < 1224245024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: version 2.0: http://pastebin.ca/raw/1229263 < 1224245039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usage: 'python roll.py [sides|100]' < 1224245050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you add 'alice' to the end of the arguments, you are the diceroller persony thing. < 1224245063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When it outputs a line, paste it to IRC, when you get a line from IRC, paste it in. < 1224245066 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looking. < 1224245084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody apart from me has tested being alice, so feel free to do that if you want. < 1224245261 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I see the need of the PRNG there, instead of just taking the seed modulo sides. It's random, already. < 1224245284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops there's a bug on b's side. < 1224245288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :change sides/2 to sides < 1224245305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: because it didn't have an even distribution when i tried that < 1224245314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had a strong bias to small numbers. < 1224245331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah if you want to test it changes sides/2 to sides and run it as 'python roll.py 100 alice' :-P < 1224245360 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's strange, /dev/random bits should be uniformly distributed. < 1224245379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: They are, but play up when modulo'd. < 1224245413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it'd work if the sides were divisible by the number of the bits or some silly thing like that < 1224245422 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be a pretty small bias when you have a big number (is that 50 bytes?) and are computing modulo a small number of sides. < 1224245439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh, yeah, 50 bytes. And, well, the sides is arbitary. < 1224245442 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess involving the PRNG can help, though. < 1224245451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been testing with 100 sides, but 10 sides and 1000 sides are perfectly reasonable. < 1224245518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" I think it'd work if the sides were divisible by the number of the bits or some silly thing like that" <-- you need the MAX_INT_FOR_YOUR_SIZE % MAX_SIDES == 0 < 1224245523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1224245534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.. < 1224245538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Right. < 1224245542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I've brought the PRNG in. < 1224245544 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bias, yes, I just wonder how easy it should be to notice. < 1224245565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright. should we test? Let's do 1000 sides, for the novelty. I'll be bob. < 1224245570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, depends on the values of MAX_INT_FOR_YOUR_SIZE and MAX_SIDES < 1224245638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doo doo < 1224245674 0 :jix!n=jix@lbck-4dbaf483.pool.einsundeins.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1224245747 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean... if you take a uniformly distributed unsigned 32-bit number, so [0, 4294967295], and do modulo 1000, you still get a probability of .00099999983585 for [0, 295] and .00100000006868 for [296, 999]. That's something that's not very noticeable. < 1224245751 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see. < 1224245769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but, 10 sided dice. < 1224245771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are far more common :-P < 1224245793 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and the bias is even smaller there. < 1224245864 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.09999999990686774 vs. .10000000013969 for ranges [0, 5] and [6, 9]. < 1224245885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, shush you. :-P < 1224245893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any actual _advantages_? < 1224245914 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Less complex, and you don't have to trust your PRNG to do anything sensible. Not much else. < 1224245960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1224245970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, fine, I'll make it do that < 1224245981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you're a communist. :| < 1224246002 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1224246006 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to do it without bias, you'll need to take a number in range [0, K] where K % sides == 0; you can do that by discarding unfun values. < 1224246010 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, roll 1000 c21ca587f12bd71d1ac8b2e99c5cc3d7a9541efe < 1224246021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, wait < 1224246023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm patching it < 1224246023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1224246026 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. :/ < 1224246047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, my email is broken atm < 1224246055 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the University's server admins strike again... < 1224246070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://pastebin.ca/raw/1229270 < 1224246083 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the Door has gone through a whole load of revisions since Wednesday, it seems < 1224246089 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :atm it lets me in and out, but not anybody else... < 1224246101 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1224246115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: why the yay? < 1224246116 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway... you can do "limit = max_int / sides * sides" (if you have a truncating division) and then reading random numbers as long as you get something that's = sides. < 1224246119 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the admins are regularly on strike? < 1224246134 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, just incompetent AFAICT < 1224246137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Is the bias ever really that bad? < 1224246145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe competent just Exchange is good enough at breaking to beat them regularl < 1224246148 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*regularly < 1224246161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I mean, the PRNG is effectively 0-bias. < 1224246167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And... that's a good thing in a dice roller. < 1224246169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say. < 1224246199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I have a new mouse now, not that that's particularly relevant < 1224246200 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That just depends on how Python implements the .randint(0, sides) part. < 1224246205 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bought it about 10 mins ago because the last one broke < 1224246218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Mersenne Twister, I believe. < 1224246223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: congrats < 1224246239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even better, this is Linux, so I can just ignore the install CD < 1224246248 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the PRNG, but it doesn't say anything how Python reduces it to that range, since that's what causes the bias in the straight-forward modulo thing. < 1224246256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, :) < 1224246264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, as for that door, weird... < 1224246267 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if move-mouse-wheel-sideways does anything, or is even detected by Linux < 1224246283 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not, as Emacs seems not to notice it < 1224246284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah that I can help with I think < 1224246285 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simply using the computing the next PRNG state and using that modulo N won't help with the bias except that it will bias something else than the small numbers consecurively. < 1224246291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm not sure what I'd do with it anyway < 1224246292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it needs a bit of work in xorg.conf < 1224246302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not mouse driver, but evdev < 1224246304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it won't work < 1224246309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1224246313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it meant to do, btw? < 1224246319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Okay, true. < 1224246322 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even on Windows? < 1224246323 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p543544164.txt <<< a short program written in a noprob wimpmode < 1224246325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, scroll sideways < 1224246326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, http://pastebin.ca/raw/1229270, and let's try. :-P < 1224246329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe < 1224246335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hokay < 1224246336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here goes < 1224246340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, that isn't a particularly common operatoin < 1224246343 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm already trying, but it's horribly slow. There's not much entropy going in that box. < 1224246343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, quite good in, say, gimp or similar < 1224246344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test 1 of version 2 of the amazing < 1224246347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amaaaaaaazing < 1224246351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it all depends on what you do < 1224246356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DISTRIBUTED CHEAT-PROOF DICE ROLLER < 1224246357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it happens on a web page, I hold middle mouse button and use autoscroll (I have firefox set to autoscroll) < 1224246371 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, and I don't do much graphics, that probably explains it < 1224246390 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries again when the traffic dies down a bit < 1224246400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I'm looking at that link now < 1224246412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... now I want to invent a mouse which has a trackball under each finger < 1224246418 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each of which can be clicked downwards as well as moved < 1224246421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway evdev is a generic thing that can handle most types of HID devices basically < 1224246429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: For me it's instant. I think OS X /dev/random uses Yarrow... < 1224246436 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not that good at speccing, i either give examples or just formally define how to run the language. < 1224246440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err that would be silly "HID devices" since HID means Human Interface Device iirc < 1224246441 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i usually take the example road < 1224246443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, it's instantaneous for me < 1224246459 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf does "Probloture" mean? < 1224246461 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't really a spec, but perhaps gives you an idea how problotures work < 1224246462 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1224246464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I got the money to buy a HID device from the ATM machine, but I had to enter my PIN number and I got RAS syndrome. < 1224246465 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a procedure < 1224246471 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can only do tail-recursive calls < 1224246475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hehe < 1224246487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is RAS? Remote Access Service? < 1224246490 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda like a lambda that cannot be passed to other lambdas, but it's implicitly passed itself. < 1224246494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Redundant Acronym Syndrome syndrome < 1224246496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look it up < 1224246499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1224246530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and ATM would be Async Transfer Mode to me < 1224246549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Automated Teller Machine. < 1224246550 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: procedure + block = probloture < 1224246552 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1224246554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah, ok < 1224246564 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i couldn't find a sillier way to mix those together < 1224246570 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, though, redundant RAS syndrome is just a syndrome caused by redundant use of acronyms < 1224246570 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Don't know about OS X; at least on Linux reading from /dev/random will block until the kernel thinks it's seen enough entropy to actually return random numbers; and there's not many entropy sources on that box. I assume it uses interrupt timing as one source, but since there's no keyboard/mouse it won't get those very much either. < 1224246579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also clicking middle button can be a bit hard with a tilting scrollwheel, at least it took a while to learn it for me < 1224246584 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there it goes: roll 1000 e62a7161266e41a150dd47f895c3fd3bcccd332d < 1224246592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, since if the wheel is tilted the click doesn't register < 1224246599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: rolled 664 < 1224246602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :may be different for you < 1224246607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: on Linux read from /dev/urandom instead if you want it to invent slightly less random numbers rather than waiting for entropy < 1224246614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, I want true randomness < 1224246631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, even /dev/random isn't truly random < 1224246636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i'm paranoid enough to make it distribute over 2 users to eliminate cheating i'm paranoid enough to make sure it's truly random < 1224246637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no < 1224246639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's closer than urandom < 1224246650 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: This is dice-rolling, after all! You can't be too careful. < 1224246652 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you realize there is no t in either of the mixed words? < 1224246662 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::d < 1224246663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Did you notice my reply? < 1224246666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Paste it into the program. :P < 1224246667 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no i didn't :P < 1224246668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: t is a contraction of cd in this case < 1224246675 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224246677 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Nope. < 1224246678 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1224246684 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: looks interesting, I think I get how it works < 1224246685 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah i guess it just sounded better. < 1224246686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: rolled 664 < 1224246699 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's some nasty assimilation < 1224246706 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that was the closest to while-loops i could get without adding mutability < 1224246709 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :final roll 745 (GaA7CjB9HcbwBdFkwZzBe1lsln6sl8JlOe6ZqVT0erl2JyPWGHNG3gnUdzSeHLKARMk=) < 1224246711 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or lambdas, or procedures < 1224246716 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't want any of those < 1224246716 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by "mutability" here? < 1224246723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, my program says you're not a cheating communist. < 1224246735 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that a variable could change value because of something other than backtracking. < 1224246739 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1224246746 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, how do you do the equivalent of an if? < 1224246747 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything that's stated must always be true < 1224246751 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: implication < 1224246757 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should've tried to cheat. < 1224246761 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see the example in the end < 1224246773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1224246777 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very VHDL, really < 1224246786 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except VHDL doesn't do backtracking < 1224246803 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... NoProb : Prolog :: VHDL : C < 1224246809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one strange analogy < 1224246816 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps something like that :P < 1224246829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NoProb? < 1224246834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that language < 1224246836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oklopol's 3-sat language < 1224246837 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the language i made today < 1224246839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224246843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why that name? < 1224246855 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NoProb, NP, 3-sat is an np-complete problem < 1224246859 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's a very oklo sort of name < 1224246863 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prob because there's probabilities involved < 1224246865 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because all the vowels are o < 1224246866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224246870 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the name was from oerjan < 1224246878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should have guessed < 1224246893 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how easy it would be to write English without a, e, i, or u < 1224246894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that oerjan did it) < 1224246914 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: also I can middle-click even with a tilted scroll wheel < 1224246924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah, what mouse is it then? < 1224246930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's from Toshiba < 1224246934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1224246935 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not so good to do < 1224246937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is it large? < 1224246942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :larger than my old mouse < 1224246948 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... < 1224246950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I have issues finding a large enough mouse, or even large enough keyboard < 1224246952 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be interesting carting it around in a laptop bag, I suppose... < 1224246953 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how the fuck can i implement that < 1224246961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a full size pc keyboard is about as small as I can handle < 1224246967 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1224246968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would prefer slightly larger < 1224246975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I got big hands < 1224246981 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you should get a projection keyboard, and put it further away from the table < 1224246986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but those take a lot of getting used to < 1224246998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have tiny hans < 1224247000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hands < 1224247009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I also like "deep" keyboards, so laptop ones are horrible, the keys should go down properly < 1224247016 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to imagine AnMaster using an iPhone < 1224247019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :full-sized php keyboards suck, this apple keyboard is stretching it a bit < 1224247024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't reach the very top keys < 1224247025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'd rather not < 1224247029 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ah, ok, projection keyboards are famous for the keys not going down at all < 1224247042 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could solve 3-sat with brute-force and a few optimizations, the problem is, there are probabilities, so really i'm solving the #P version of it, because i need to enumerate all ways to get truth out of a statement < 1224247044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the iphone keyboard isn't actually that bad once you get used to it... < 1224247049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my recent agora mails where sent with it < 1224247054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(post-2am bst last night) < 1224247056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it probably depends on how big yout hands are < 1224247064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you use one single finger... < 1224247064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it seems only Microsoft make reasonably sized mice < 1224247068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or two thumbs < 1224247069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is bloody strange < 1224247089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet those mice are at least usable even though they are about 1 cm too short < 1224247090 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another problem are the recursion vars < 1224247094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft don't make mice at all, the Microsoft mice are Logitech mice with a different logo on IIRC < 1224247113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the Logitech ones I seen have been smaller and harder to use < 1224247123 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, probably they're different hardware specs < 1224247124 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know about Microsoft today, but they certainly weren't logitech mice around the Intellimouse Explorer time. < 1224247129 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1224247137 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem somehow needs to evaluate 3-sat *lazily*, and still *enumerate all possible ways to get 1*, if it's not lazy, it will infloop, if it doesn't enumerate all possibilities, it cannot calculate probabilities < 1224247138 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, does anyone else use less to read email, or is it just me? < 1224247144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: are your hands like... joseph merricks < 1224247147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well mine says "Microsoft Comfort Optical Mouse 3000" < 1224247149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just you < 1224247152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, like who? < 1224247162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Merrick the elephant man < 1224247166 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, i guess this is my everest, not yours, i think i'll read something < 1224247168 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1224247181 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How long is that Comfort three thousand? < 1224247185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no... < 1224247187 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I've realised that all my 4 or so outstanding problems to solve before I can implement Feather are actually the same problem < 1224247211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm just large. Around 190 cm iirc (189.7 cm I think last I checked) < 1224247225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that is pretty tall < 1224247236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well yeah, I'm tallest in family < 1224247254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know centimeters for height < 1224247256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bizzarely < 1224247256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the outstanding problem in Feather is: to determine what in the program after a change corresponded to what before a change < 1224247260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(about 3 cm longer than my dad, and 5 cm longer than mom.) < 1224247267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well try google then < 1224247268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: there are 39 inches in a metre, you can calculate it from that < 1224247272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1224247274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: also "taller" not "longer" when talking about people < 1224247275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just commenting < 1224247277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since i just realised < 1224247281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah right < 1224247285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know some things in metric and some in imperial < 1224247291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same word for both in Swedish... < 1224247307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, there's no real reason to draw a distinction < 1224247314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (about 3 cm longer than my dad, and 5 cm longer than mom.) <- heh, this is a rather unfortunate slip derived from being non-native... < 1224247320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in English, I think "taller" is normally used for things that are generally measured upwards < 1224247327 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as people < 1224247328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, which is bloody weird < 1224247329 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or tall buildings < 1224247335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ^ < 1224247338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant < 1224247342 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas longer is used for something that's measured horizontally, like snakes < 1224247354 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in finnish, we have separate words for tall and long, except we still use long for people :P < 1224247356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about diagonally? < 1224247366 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hmm... that's an interesting point < 1224247373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably I'd use "long" for 45 degrees < 1224247382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and for 46? < 1224247383 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saying someone is tall would be like saying they're "high" < 1224247384 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it would become more likely to be "tall" as it became more vertical < 1224247390 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except without the drug connotation < 1224247391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ok.. < 1224247406 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably it wouldn't be consistent from one speaker to another, probably not even from one speaker to themself < 1224247412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes, it's a stupid distinction < 1224247427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've always been the smallest person in any group of my age < 1224247431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah oklopol, you could use "högt" (high) about a building or so < 1224247441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION didn't invent English, and normally finds themself agreeing with foreigners when they complain about English being stupid < 1224247444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Swedish < 1224247446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :honestly, i'm about as big as a 9 year old < 1224247450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but long would also work I think < 1224247472 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in English "high" would refer to the object itself being a long way above ground, rather than the top of the object < 1224247484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for buildings sometimes we use "high" anyway despite that rule < 1224247492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, "that building is really high" < 1224247494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, a tall tower or a high tower? < 1224247497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything in English seems to have exceptions < 1224247498 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: both < 1224247499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a nice interpretation of that is that the building is on drugs) < 1224247503 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they mean the same thing < 1224247511 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only for buildings, for some reason < 1224247513 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: so, basically, you decided to stop growing your body and used excess on your brain? < 1224247522 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a tall aeroplane and a high aeroplane would be quite different < 1224247526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no, but it would be amusing to have a huge bulging head < 1224247528 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning you're actually 15 on irc < 1224247538 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or err 16-17 < 1224247542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, an aircraft located at a high altitude? < 1224247545 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224247553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to an aircraft which measured a lot from top to bottom < 1224247555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1224247557 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: excess in years, not size < 1224247557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/77l5b/forget_rss_here_comes_flickrs_lol_feed/ < 1224247563 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fi:korkea means "has a large vertical extent", while fi:korkealla means "located at a high altitude". < 1224247564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lol feed? < 1224247572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's just a lolcode bastardization. < 1224247579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why can't flickr have done an underload feed? < 1224247580 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that even possible? < 1224247585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://api.flickr.com/services/feeds/photos_public.gne?id=68497070@N00&lang=en-us&format=lol The offender. < 1224247597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's basically just "made up shit" < 1224247600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it looks like lolcode < 1224247604 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IM IN UR BUCKETS MAKING UP FORMATS <<< i found this pretty funny :o < 1224247609 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so did I, actually < 1224247613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's the only funny line in the thing < 1224247614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION agrees < 1224247617 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fi:-lla suffix is something like the 'on' preposition in English. < 1224247635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ok you are worse with suffixes than Swedish then... < 1224247690 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that the 'on' preposition in English has a whole lotta uses. Well, I guess our suffix has some others, too. < 1224247700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the commentors are right, though, that is shorter and clearer than XML, even when compressed < 1224247707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well yeah < 1224247718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it's worse in Latin, "in" and "on" are the same word there < 1224247720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well: http://nomic.info/perlnomic/log.rss < 1224247722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is pretty clear < 1224247729 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the distinction of tall and long is not an arbitrary distinction between objects in different angles, it's so you can tell what kind of size the speaker means < 1224247732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, prepositions never seem to have a 1:1 mapping between languages, for any preposition... < 1224247787 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, OK, it still has lots of unnecessary stuff in though < 1224247790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guys. A blast from the past: http://web.archive.org/web/20040130154403/http://mozilla.org/. Who remembers going there?! < 1224247803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They told you to nab mozilla 1.6 with that flashy silver icon. < 1224247803 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone should invent a YAML version of RSS < 1224247812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Mozilla Firebird" was a technology preview. < 1224247812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: been done < 1224247816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1224247818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by why the lucky stiff, it's !okay/news < 1224247820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but...nobody uses it < 1224247823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now someone should make it widely used < 1224247824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because nothing supports it < 1224247832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the _only_ implementor is hobix for obvious reasons < 1224247849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, share in my wow at that old mozilla homepage < 1224247871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why wow? < 1224247880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because it's a blast from the past, so shush < 1224247893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never understood nostalgia < 1224247898 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that reddit entry about the Google quine is quite interesting < 1224247905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, google quine? < 1224247911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link? < 1224247913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's because you're an inhuman, lifeless machine. :| < 1224247913 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google a number and return that many results < 1224247921 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/77o4g/proggit_chalenge_find_a_number_n_which_when/ is the discussion < 1224247927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently 545000 works for some people < 1224247934 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it returned 548000 when I tried < 1224247940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Results 1 - 10 of about 548,000 for 545000. (0.05 seconds) < 1224247942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1224247944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1224247966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its obvious why < 1224247968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google indexes reddit really rapidly. < 1224247971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I have discovered a truly marvelous number with this property but I can't post it here, because then Google would index my comment and it wouldn't be valid any longer." < 1224247972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehe < 1224247977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all the sites that nab stuff from reddit < 1224248043 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Anything natural-language-related is just exceptions on top of other exceptions. For example our adessive case (the "-lla" suffix) has the basic meaning "on top of something" or "around something", but it's also used to indicate possession; "the cat has ears" is "kissalla on korvat", which literally translated would be "there are ears on top of the cat". < 1224248080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that sounds hilarious in Swedish < 1224248094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering "korv" means "sausage" < 1224248105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that "on" means anything < 1224248110 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Falukorv, right. < 1224248120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well that is one variant < 1224248130 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the famous one. :p < 1224248138 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm, falukorv < 1224248150 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lunch -> < 1224248172 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"DRAFT DRAFT DRAFT DRAFT" < 1224248210 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We've got something called "lauantaimakkara", literally "Saturday sausage"; I've never been quite clear what's very Saturday-like about it. It's pretty tasteless. < 1224248214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DRAFT!!!!!!!!!!!DRAFT!!!!!!!!!!!DRAFT!!!!!!!!!!!DRAFT!!!!!!!!!!!DRAFT!!!!!!!!!!!DRAFT!!!!!!!!!!!DRAFT!!!!!!!!!!!DRAFT!!!!!!!!!!!DRAFT!!!!!!!!!!!DRAFT!!!!!!!!!!!DRAFT!!!!!!!!!!!DRAFT!!!!!!!!!!!DRAFT < 1224248309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr < 1224248326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please please don't let this become sort of channel in-joke < 1224248330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is just too silly for that < 1224248353 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you've pretty much guaranteed it will now < 1224248364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DD!!RR!!AA!!FF!!TT!!!!!!!!!!DD!!RR!!AA!!FF!!TT!!!!!!!!!!DD!!RR!!AA!!FF!!TT!!!!!!!!!!DD!!RR!!AA!!FF!!TT!!!!!!!!!!DD!!RR!!AA!!FF!!TT!!!!!!!!!!DD!!RR!!AA!!FF!!TT!!!!!!!!!!DD!!RR!!AA!!FF!!TT!!!!!!!!!!DD!!RR!!AA!!FF!!TT!!!!!!!!!!DD!!RR!!AA!!FF!!TT < 1224248364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, damn < 1224248371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that made no sense < 1224248382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echochohoo !!!DRAFT!!! < 1224248386 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show < 1224248387 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo reverb rev bf rot13 hi rev2 fib wc ul ctcp < 1224248387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DRAFT DRAFT DRAFT DRAFT DRAFT < 1224248391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, it was deleted < 1224248397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echochohoo? < 1224248399 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think some of 'em were lost when someone crashed fungot this morning. < 1224248399 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hitler killed a lot of < 1224248399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did that one do < 1224248419 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: said something, then said it again minus the first char, then again minus the first two chars, and so on < 1224248419 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given the input 12345, it outputted "123452345345455". < 1224248435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway I need to figure out the TODO marked bits, a good name for mutexes (latch is top one currently) < 1224248453 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :call them "fortunes" < 1224248462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that it's anything appropriate, but it sounds nice and mysterious < 1224248473 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it would've outputted: !!!DRAFT!!!!!DRAFT!!!!DRAFT!!!DRAFT!!!RAFT!!!AFT!!!FT!!!T!!!!!!!!! < 1224248476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would prefer that it make some kind of sense < 1224248486 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: wrong channel < 1224248498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no more like a extended metaphor < 1224248517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want memes to make sense, get out of #esoteric < 1224248517 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :latches? just call them unsafe flip-flops < 1224248525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, heh < 1224248538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, the logic was: mutexes -> locks -> latches < 1224248550 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, and i continued one level more < 1224248558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a latch would have the operations latch/unlatch/inspect < 1224248559 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could use I and O (as in flIp and flOp) as the operations; no-one would ever remember which one was which. < 1224248562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inspect is like try-lock < 1224248586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh, but what about the try-lock one? < 1224248591 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: U, as in flUb. < 1224248597 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flip, flop, flub. < 1224248600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm interesting < 1224248640 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe a bit silly. I'm trying to think of something completely surprising but with real-life mutual-exclusion semantics. Not having too much luck yet. < 1224248649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, same < 1224248794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers "a bouncer" < 1224248806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1224248808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm bored < 1224248812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deploy, fire, ask to be allowed to enter? < 1224248815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err no < 1224248815 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... the concept of bouncers seems to be an antipattern, actually < 1224248819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too far fetched < 1224248828 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably IRC channels have join and quit messages for a reason < 1224248838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well yeah? < 1224248840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't thiink he's talking about an irc bouncer < 1224248842 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and bouncers exist to stop them ending up in the channel < 1224248843 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1224248845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and indeed not < 1224248871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, as one outside a restaurant(sp?) < 1224248881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think that is the English word for them? < 1224248881 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like this: "Critical sections in the code can be done by copyRighting a particular number; when you have done that, no other thread may copyRight the same number, until you explicitly copyLeft the number first." < 1224248892 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1224248896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that may work heh < 1224248910 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more often pubs and nightclubs than restaurants, though < 1224248919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and what about try-lock operation? < 1224248928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well yeah < 1224248995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, "send a letter asking for permission to use"? < 1224248997 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thinking. "You can also simply File for copyright with the F instruction; unlike the copyRight instruction, filing for copyright won't block your thread, but you only get the copyRight for the desired number if it was free." < 1224249011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224249014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could work too < 1224249016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better < 1224249030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, :) < 1224249052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except what are the implications for FOSS in this? < 1224249058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1224249095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and using the number in other contexts is obviously fair use. < 1224249131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(such as in unrelated calculations) < 1224249143 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the concept of copyRight in your language would be pretty limited; the only thing it would prevent is the copyRighting of the same number by someone else. < 1224249157 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not copyright, that's trademarks < 1224249157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes.. hm < 1224249160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224249184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm < 1224249193 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not exactly trademarks either, since there are at least some things you can't do with someone else's trademarked logo or thing. < 1224249221 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main thing you can't do with someone else's trademark is use it in a context unrelated to them < 1224249235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can talk about Microsoft Windows without problems, referring to the operating system < 1224249240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sco - microsoft) / novell * apple < 1224249241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1224249245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I tried to make my own OS called Microsoft Windows, though, I'd be in trouble < 1224249250 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 0, obviously < 1224249256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's what sco-microsoft evaluates to < 1224249264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah right < 1224249269 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you implying sco = microsoft? < 1224249282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm implying that SCO would probably be nothing without Microsoft < 1224249284 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least nowadays < 1224249296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm interpreting the - as set subtraction, rather than numerical subtraction < 1224249300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not anticommutative < 1224249308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yet you could sell windows? < 1224249312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :made of glass < 1224249320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it depends on the scope of the trademark < 1224249327 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a huge court case going on about this at the moment < 1224249335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :between Apple the record company and Apple the computer company < 1224249343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224249352 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the record company claim the computer company started to breach their trademark when they released the iPod < 1224249367 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being music-related, you see < 1224249381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, then they did it when you included speakers in the computers too < 1224249387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :logically < 1224249402 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes trademark law is a mess < 1224249409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I know that court case is still ongoing < 1224249422 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's been quite a lot of Apple Corps vs. Apple Computer trademark disputes. < 1224249435 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v._Apple_Computer < 1224249438 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia "Apple Corps v. Apple Computer" lists six. < 1224249462 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, six sections, anyway. < 1224249464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... it seems they settled eventually < 1224249472 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in the 2007 one, which is the one I was thinking about) < 1224249482 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea who would have won if they hadn't < 1224249535 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, you'll have to worry about a language where you can trademark small integers... well, except that in this language the scope of the trademarks would prevent people (well, threads) _only_ from trademarking the same numbers, not from using them any way they wish. < 1224249540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid thing to name it the same < 1224249563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yep so I'll not use that terminology < 1224249613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe "booking out", as in a library? < 1224249624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm? < 1224249638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can book out things, and you give them back later < 1224249645 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't book something out if someone else has booked it out < 1224249656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally, though, when you book something out you say how long you're going to need it for < 1224249661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"booked out" would mean? < 1224249669 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possession of a physical object is one thing that's naturally mutually exclusive, yes. < 1224249670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was "lend/return" < 1224249671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you sign a piece of paper to say that you have it < 1224249675 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that works too < 1224249704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also you can normally be put on a queue for the book, which kind of doesn't work here since the queue order is non-deterministic < 1224249713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least that is how erlang currently implements waiting for locks < 1224249726 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a bit strange library, that's all. :p < 1224249733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1224249745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and the try lock would be checking if a book is in? < 1224249754 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh yes, a reservation < 1224249768 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or one of those library enquiry computer things < 1224249814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, try lock wouldn't be like reservation really? Since it would reflect instead of block if the book/lock was lended/held < 1224249827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers < 1224249836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still it may kind of work I guess < 1224249841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224249851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would "lended" be correct? < 1224249860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aspell doesn't think so < 1224249876 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loaned. < 1224249891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the operations are: loan/return/??? < 1224249898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or? < 1224249911 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loan, return, check status < 1224249931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, C and S are in use and hard to change. hm < 1224249942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K? T? < 1224249946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both seem to fit well there < 1224249951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1224249951 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wiktionary says that "loan" as a verb is ungrammatical outside the US: "to loan: (US) To lend. This usage is confined to the US (or perhaps parts thereof) and elsewhere is ungrammatical (loan being the noun, and lend the verb)." < 1224249957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they work fine < 1224249983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so T reflects if the book is loaned? < 1224249991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like wrong grammar to me < 1224249995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/wrong/bad/ < 1224250000 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the past tense for "to lend" is "lent", not "lended", apparently. < 1224250014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it is < 1224250017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :English is weird < 1224250032 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "on loan" is the phrase you're looking for < 1224250036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that that makes any sense either < 1224250045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1224250053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and the opposite of that? < 1224250064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in is in library < 1224250065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the libraries I use call it "available" < 1224250070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1224250109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the number is obviously the extended ISBN (any number, not just well formed isbn) < 1224250133 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. "I called my library and tried to borrow the number 4, but unfortunately that number was already on loan." < 1224250168 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually isn't "borrow" the correct verb for the receiving end? < 1224250174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1224250179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... yes, it is < 1224250185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so borrow/return/try to borrow? < 1224250191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the library loans < 1224250194 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The library is lending the book to you; you are borrowing the book from the library. < 1224250199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas the person borrows < 1224250208 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1224250210 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finnish just uses the same word "lainata" for both. < 1224250212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and do you return a book? < 1224250219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that the wrong word < 1224250244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you return it < 1224250259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that or pay lots of fines < 1224250320 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you say you lost the book, and apologize a lot, you might just need to pay the price of the book; that's one way people use to "buy" out-of-print books. < 1224250331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"don't try to acquire a mutex you already hold" < 1224250335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would end up as < 1224250346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"don't try to borrow a book you already ????" < 1224250357 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Don't try to borrow a book you already have. This would confuse the librarian." < 1224250363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1224250377 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "possibly confuse", since it's not clear what happens. < 1224250384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1224250389 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, I so want to implement mutexes using ar < 1224250394 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't know if it's thread-safe < 1224250407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using ar? < 1224250410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh why? < 1224250430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :library analogy < 1224250432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no better reason than that < 1224250460 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a funny library, though; you can't make a reservation (you can just wait for someone to return the book, but then it's pure luck who gets it, the one who was waiting first has no special privilege) and there's no time limit for loans. < 1224250539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a time limit might actually be a useful protection against dropped mutexes < 1224250541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed < 1224250560 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: And then you'd need to pay with some clock cycles if you return your book all dirty. < 1224250573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, I couldn't implement that < 1224250577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1224250590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: nah, the OS would just force you to be a bit nicer < 1224250597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AUGH < 1224250628 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. "We're not scheduling you as often as we used to, since you got burger sauce all over number 4 when you last borrowed it." < 1224250761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh another thing, the library have every possible book < 1224250770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hilbert's library or something < 1224251029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, fizzie ^ < 1224251039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I saw that < 1224251055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very much so considering efunge have bignum cells < 1224251282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, fizzie: http://rafb.net/p/zTufIM86.html < 1224251307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also please point out stuff that are language mistakes < 1224251308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and such < 1224251383 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :B description says "every use of L". < 1224251392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1224251417 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll look more closely later (or maybe you have another draft at that point already), must go buy food and stuff. < 1224251453 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you should so define the interaction with TRDS < 1224251458 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leaving it undefined is a cop-out < 1224251462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I have to go to lectures now < 1224251466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, blergh < 1224251468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see you all in about 2 hours 20 mins or so < 1224251472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1224251477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blergh about TRDS < 1224251490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well I know < 1224251516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Using TRDS and ATHR in combination shall cause demons to fly out of the Funge programmer's nose < 1224251582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I think WIND wouldn't have issues < 1224251586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no need to list it < 1224251622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Using TRDS and ATHR in combination shall cause implementation-defined demons to fly out of the Funge programmer's nose." < 1224251623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1224251691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that allows for someone to actually do something sensible if they want (define the demons to be none, and work on other bits) < 1224251715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: TRDS and ATHR together sounds awesome < 1224251719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you be so hostile >:( < 1224251743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, since TRDS is too badly speced to be sure how it would work in combination < 1224251760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and because I don't want a headache < 1224251761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it would be amazing < 1224251776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, feel free to work out a sensible way for how they interact then, I may even use it < 1224251793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: will you implement it < 1224251798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, TRDS? No < 1224251806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ATHR? Yes in efunge, not in cfunge < 1224251811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS < 1224251819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the people have spoken < 1224251821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they want TRDS < 1224251868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so you want to maintain it as a patch set against cfunge or efugne? < 1224251873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :efunge* < 1224251881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the people want you to implement trds < 1224251911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may want it, it won't happen < 1224251931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but since both are open source, feel free to do it yourself < 1224251954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would imply forking < 1224251966 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want you to implement trds too < 1224251972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see < 1224251974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's two people < 1224251977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :200% of your user base < 1224251991 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1224251994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, neither of you use cfunge or efunge < 1224252002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, but only 1 person uses cfunge < 1224252008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore two people are 200% of your userbase < 1224252012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also 0 people use efunge < 1224252031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, actually ais523 use it, I use it, and I know someone else who do so. + fizzie use it sometimes < 1224252047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and yes, efunge haven't had a release yet < 1224252056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what did you expect < 1224252061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hasn't. < 1224252068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hasn't* indeed < 1224252089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it still lacks many features, such as i and o < 1224252128 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i might use cfunge if i used befunge < 1224252143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb ais523 < 1224252147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I still won't implement TRDS :P < 1224252169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, do you actually know how messy TRDS is? < 1224252171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.rcfunge98.com/rcfunge2_manual.html#TRDS < 1224252177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trds is amazing < 1224252179 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i've read that < 1224252200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I'm in my lecture now < 1224252200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's making no sense < 1224252200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so although I can't really concentrate on the conversation here < 1224252200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes more sense than trying to understand the lecture < 1224252213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it about < 1224252225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to the syllabus it's about management < 1224252229 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1224252229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: < 1224252230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TRDS < 1224252231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :---- < 1224252231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using TRDS and ATHR in combination shall cause implementation-defined demons to < 1224252231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fly out of the Funge programmer's nose. < 1224252231 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds awful < 1224252239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION agrees with oklopol  < 1224252253 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually a lecturer spending several hours talking about "customers" < 1224252260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ouch < 1224252263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone just complained that that was marketing < 1224252268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the lecturer asked what marketing was < 1224252273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1224252276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously? < 1224252277 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is going to be a long 11 weeks... < 1224252280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I think so < 1224252281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"what's marketing?" < 1224252283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did he say that? < 1224252287 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, he did < 1224252292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot believe that < 1224252296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i knew what marketing meant when i was 5. < 1224252299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I hope he forgot ~ or something... < 1224252300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure if it was rhetorical or not < 1224252318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i was thinking "rhetorical" < 1224252323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either way thats a shitty rhetorical question < 1224252334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway my point was... if you want sensible TRDS/ATHR interaction then you got to define it, since I can't figure that out. < 1224252351 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"How would you create Value Add thorugh a Internal Customer audit on yourself ?" < 1224252363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe i read that as "Intercal" < 1224252367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sounds like scientology < 1224252368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1224252369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(literal from the notes I've just been given, except the typo in through is mine, the other typos were the lecturer's though) < 1224252384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask him how his thetans are doing < 1224252399 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, this one's even more Scientologic: < 1224252401 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :managers abuse language :( < 1224252410 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :death to them all < 1224252431 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No Cynicism. Creativity, dreams, imagination Fantatical attention to consistency and detail Preservation and control of the xxxxx magic." < 1224252437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1224252440 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, and I didn't typo in that, the typos are the lecturer's again < 1224252448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the xxxxx makes no sense in that context < 1224252452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am serious, that looks exactly like one of those sekrit scientology journal things i pirated < 1224252458 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD < 1224252468 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A friend-of-a-friend here got a scientology anti-psychiatry pamphlet. I didn't know they were doing that sort of thing in Finland. < 1224252469 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what university were you at again < 1224252478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Birmingham University < 1224252484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really, all management courses are like this < 1224252491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: they do that thing -everywhere- < 1224252500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, horrible < 1224252500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the IEEE insists that engineering courses are 1/12 management courses, I have no idea why < 1224252508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck the IEEE. < 1224252509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1224252512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid closed standard bodies < 1224252522 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the management lecturer last year was actually quite good though, he tought me accounting and company law < 1224252526 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so more business than management < 1224252534 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I get regular religious nonsense reasonably often, but never scientology stuff. It's strange. < 1224252585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I just realised that I have enough accumulated pass marks that I can fail this module and still get a first, in theory < 1224252595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I really want to have to do that, but it's nice to have a safety valve < 1224252684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, still, if you think TRDS + ATHR should be well defined you better write that section. < 1224252748 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's athr < 1224252758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, async threads for Funge < 1224252806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/bQS3gx65.html < 1224252808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :current revision < 1224252811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ais523 ^ < 1224253157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb ais523 < 1224253173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, http://rafb.net/p/bQS3gx65.html < 1224253192 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems this lecture theatre has a dodgy router < 1224253275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... the lecturer's explained that sentence with the xxxxx in < 1224253283 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently we were supposed to guess that xxxxx=Disney < 1224253290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... the sentence still doesn't make much sense though < 1224253360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking for ar... no < 1224253360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking for i686-pc-linux-gnu-ar... no < 1224253360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking for ar... ar < 1224253364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks a bit odd < 1224253374 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes, it does < 1224253380 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did it come up with the right answer, though? < 1224253381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it was from gcc configure < 1224253391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that would explain it < 1224253394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? < 1224253398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking for ld... no < 1224253398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking for i686-pc-linux-gnu-ld... no < 1224253398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking for ld... ld < 1224253400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc configure does the same sort of stupid tricks as ick configure < 1224253400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :said that below < 1224253405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why I thought it was the same thing to start with < 1224253409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I'm building an llvm gcc < 1224253411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except gcc configure is mostly hand-coded < 1224253412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a* < 1224253429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas ick's uses macros and some stupid semi-recursion stuff < 1224253447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it said: < 1224253449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking for i686-pc-linux-gnu-ld... no < 1224253449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking for ld... ld < 1224253452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just 20 lines above < 1224253454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1224253463 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what are your build, host and target for that build? < 1224253477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster@phoenix ~/llvm/gcc-build $ ../llvm-gcc/configure --prefix=/home/anmaster/local/llvm --program-prefix=llvm- --enable-llvm=/home/anmaster/local/llvm --with-arch=pentium3 --with-tune=pentium3 --disable-libgcj --enable-libmudflap --enable-nls --enable-__cxa_atexit --disable-multilib --enable-clocale=gnu --enable-languages=c,c++ < 1224253479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc has to check all 3 of them < 1224253492 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ick cares about build and host, but target you do using CC at runtime < 1224253513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well see the command line < 1224253518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess native build < 1224253522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with llvm stuff < 1224253546 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately the build/host/target are probably hardcoded there < 1224253551 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least one of them is and probably 2 < 1224253580 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: typo in F: singal should be signal < 1224253586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although singal is a nice word too < 1224253592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite not meaning anything < 1224253597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh aspell accepted it < 1224253610 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... maybe it means something I don't know, then < 1224253624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Singal (Hangeul: 신갈) is an area of Yongin, in Gyeonggi Province, South Korea. It is near two major expressways and a large reservoir by the ..." < 1224253631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1224253632 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first comma in B should probably be a semicolon < 1224253632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :continual, everlasting, continuous < 1224253632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :en.wiktionary.org/wiki/singal < 1224253638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1224253655 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Old English", though. < 1224253658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a semicolon, right < 1224253671 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WordNet doesn't know singal, but it's not that comprehensive anyway. < 1224253691 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I didn't know it and I'm a native speaker < 1224253713 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're not a native speaker of Old English, obviously. < 1224253723 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, obviously < 1224253751 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, R looks self-contradictory < 1224253755 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you define an error condition < 1224253759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then state "never reflects" < 1224253817 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in S, the first instance of "threads" should be "thread", and "it's" should be "its" < 1224253818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, *looks* < 1224253833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ok you are right about R < 1224253842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and about S < 1224253890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Reflects on returning a book you don't have. Otherwise never reflects." < 1224253893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about that? < 1224253899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, bbiab food < 1224253901 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, looks good < 1224254000 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that pthread_mutex_unlock won't error out on unlocking someone else's mutex unless you use an error-checking (instead of a fast/recursive mutex) mutex. Of course you can define it, and it's arguably better that way. < 1224254033 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I suppose using fast mutexes is more C-like < 1224254048 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't worry about error conditions, just make sure the prorgammer never lets errors happen < 1224254072 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slows down the programmer but speeds up the program, unless you have a /very/ good optimiser < 1224254119 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's just that B is defined in the "easy to implement even without error-checking mutexes" way, so for consistency's sake... < 1224254150 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think people write performance-critical Funge-98 code that much, though. < 1224254190 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "implementation defined and does not need to be the same on every run, or even for every use of B during a run" can be abbreviated to "unspecified" if you're using C-standard terminology < 1224254225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the original is possibly clearer < 1224254297 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the notes section, "The library have all books" should be "The library has all books" < 1224254501 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh argh argh < 1224254510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lecturer is trying to teach us about S.M.A.R.T. < 1224254529 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is one of the things that everyone most hated about targets and such in my secondary school < 1224254534 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that the whole system made any sense < 1224254546 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: did they teach you that too, or did you escape from it? < 1224254552 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-39-168.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224254562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hm what where < 1224254564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't been paying attention < 1224254581 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: did they try to teach you about SMART targets in secondary school? < 1224254591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they did i do not recall < 1224254657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : well, I suppose using fast mutexes is more C-like <-- ? < 1224254664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224254683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it should be undefined instead? < 1224254745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, S.M.A.R.T.? As in harddisks? < 1224254934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Ping reply from ais523: 0.70 second(s) < 1224254934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1224254938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess he is just busy then < 1224254941 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no < 1224254945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a management acronym < 1224254949 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you're lucky < 1224254964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: summary? < 1224254976 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Realistic, Time-related < 1224254998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1224254999 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the managementese for what are good properties for targets to have < 1224255010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time-related? < 1224255018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it leads to lots of arguments, such as what is the difference between achieveable and realistic anyway < 1224255033 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what it means in practice is that the targets you set have to have time limits < 1224255041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that isn't what time-related actually means < 1224255048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, "with deadline"? < 1224255057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is wrong with that < 1224255058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you know what i hate? I hate internet-friends who take programming courses and ask me things. "can you decompile xml files" / "what" / "is it possible." "to decompile." "compiled xml files." < 1224255059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's the in-practice meaning, yes < 1224255082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, compiled xml files make no sense... < 1224255093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: congratulations, you got what i was saying < 1224255101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think he means binary xml file thingies < 1224255115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, that reminds me of another weirdness about VHDL < 1224255124 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you've finally translated it into an idiomatic form, and compiled it < 1224255134 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's usual to decompile the output and interpret it to check that it still works < 1224255141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :binary xml files? You mean like encoded as ascii code points in stored in a binary file? < 1224255145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like... text files? < 1224255162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1224255164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's such a thing < 1224255169 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.xml.gz < 1224255176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be the obvious solution < 1224255177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err that is just gunzip < 1224255184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to uncompress < 1224255192 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I wonder if there is an official binary serialisation of XML? < 1224255201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i think so < 1224255205 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that wouldn't surprise me, even though it ought ot < 1224255206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also for that VHDL issue it sounds like the compilers are horribly buggy < 1224255206 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*to < 1224255216 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, the issue is that RL is horribly buggy < 1224255232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you've compiled into hardware, it works out how long all the wires are and so on < 1224255245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for "binary serialisation of XML", that makes no sense.. < 1224255246 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the decompiled version allows for the behaviour of the wires and such < 1224255267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah ok < 1224255268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for instance if two things happen at the same time in your source, in practice they'll normally happen at slightly different times in RL < 1224255273 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the decompiled version will get that right < 1224255334 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... your ATHR needs a "security considerations" section < 1224255338 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because RFCs always have those < 1224255374 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I just had an idea < 1224255382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I might know how to get Feather to work... < 1224255407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm, I considered "ATHR and the impacts on modern society" section with the text "Not a lot." or something like that... < 1224255428 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's impossible to compare functions, it is possible to see if one function contains a copy of another < 1224255440 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in a lang like Unlambda, the only way to find out what a function does is to run it < 1224255456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and functions are generally modified by putting wrappers around them, that's the only thing you can do really < 1224255485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also what would i put in security considerations? "Doesn't allow any additional external IO"? < 1224255497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... possibility for fork-bombs, maybe < 1224255507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I think ATHR would be safe according to cfunge's sandbox mode requirements < 1224255517 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you fork-bomb with it? < 1224255523 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what does it help if you know a function contains another? < 1224255526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well thread bomb I guess... < 1224255535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: the problem is to tell if two things are effectively the same < 1224255541 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224255552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also I saw a new horrible fingerprint in rc/funge, "FORK" < 1224255553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question is "what in the new universe corresponds to X in the old universe" after a retroactive modification < 1224255555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.rcfunge98.com/rcfunge2_manual.html#FORK < 1224255572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is impossible to say what that actually does < 1224255582 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the answer is "whatever has the same call tree of absolute function addresses, possibly with extra elements inserted" < 1224255605 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sorry, i confused feather with your other unimplementable language < 1224255611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, Proud? < 1224255612 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the name of which i forgot again < 1224255613 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224255616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, feather is implementable isn't it? < 1224255620 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feather is at least in theory implementable, I think < 1224255626 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just I haven't figured out how yet < 1224255631 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to implement it to prove it's possible < 1224255634 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then so I can program in it < 1224255658 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proud is implementable too, just not well, it's a fuzzy issue < 1224255664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, should I attribute you with your nick or real name? < 1224255667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in thanks section < 1224255682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't mind, "Alex Smith" would probably fit in best there given the other names < 1224255715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what about the wikipedia stalker-murderers < 1224255767 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, my nick isn't on there, is it? < 1224255769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway if implemented in erlang you effectively have no issue with fork bombs, erlang threads are very green. I think a newly created thread uses something like around 200-300 machine words of memory < 1224255778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including the default stack < 1224255816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that just means that the fork bomb can become really big before you notice it < 1224255849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well anyone sane would have proper ulimits set up < 1224255875 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can you elaborate on why it helps that we can see whether a function contains another? < 1224256028 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | heh < 1224256108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well, basically, suppose you retroactively modify the program < 1224256112 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1224256114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw how would ick interact with ATHR ;) < 1224256116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the program will then rerun up to the point where you changed it < 1224256121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I plan to implement it in cfunge < 1224256130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if there was more than one thread at the end of any command, it would go crazy < 1224256142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah yes right < 1224256156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway that leaves the TRDS issue. < 1224256161 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: anyway, you need to avoid timeloops < 1224256164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I delegate to you ais523 < 1224256171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... /me imagines ick + TRDS < 1224256180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, TRDS + ATHR I meant < 1224256199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, ick + TRDS aren't fundamentally incompatible, but I can't figure out what the result would be < 1224256223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and for ATHR and TRDS? < 1224256226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: so, once you reach the command that did the retroactive modification, it shouldn't retroactively modify the second time round < 1224256236 0 :slereah!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-39-168.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224256248 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I was joking, really, although I suspect the interaction would be the same as t + TRDS (i.e. only Deewiant understands it) < 1224256272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I suspect it would be even messier < 1224256277 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: the problem is: determine when you reach that command, given that the program has changed in the meantime < 1224256300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I've come to the answer by considering what the likely modifications are < 1224256315 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll define a set of "sane" retroactive modifications that the standard library can cope with < 1224256341 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :insane retroactive modifications are allowed to, but if you do them it's your responsibility to make sure the program doesn't timeloop or do other crazy pimetaradoxical things < 1224256351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, make each command have an GUID that never changes during a run? < 1224256351 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*too < 1224256362 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of that too, but it doesn't help < 1224256371 0 :slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1224256373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because how do you tell it's the same command if the source changes, or the syntax of the lang changes < 1224256377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lambdas break it really badly < 1224256386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1224256433 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is to come up with something GUID-like that can cope with changes in the nature of the language < 1224256449 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and looking for call stacks with elements inserted seems to be the solution < 1224256457 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, the same problem comes up in handling I/O < 1224256485 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, the way I think Feather will do it is that input and output are tagged with their /purpose/ < 1224256490 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the programmer < 1224256494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and purposes are meant to be stable < 1224256496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, could you make feather become befunge? < 1224256502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with these modifications < 1224256503 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I think so < 1224256512 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bootstrapping might be hard though < 1224256521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as at some point the program would need to be a Feather/Befunge polyglot < 1224256525 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll read, was watching a finnish racist boast about getting rid of foreigners on youtube < 1224256530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, care to give a short example program to show what the syntax looks like? < 1224256536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for original feather < 1224256543 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes watching nutjobs preach < 1224256555 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, modulo the fact that I haven't come up with any examples yet, and the syntax keeps changing every now and then as I work out what the language features < 1224256569 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but after you've imported the standard library, it would be something like this: < 1224256641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^stdlib outputwrapper #sayhello [^stdlib output] [^stdlib stdout] "Hello, world!" < 1224256651 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not a very typical example though < 1224256655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1224256669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so how would you change the syntax? What does that bit look like? < 1224256673 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the # isn't strictly necessary, as curried functions don't have a sayhello message < 1224256713 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... as a trivial example, I'll consider a modification to the language which makes a % at the start of the program comment out the entire program < 1224256747 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this could take a while to write, wait a while... < 1224256787 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at some point, i considered a string from a marker to the end of the program for oklotalk < 1224256797 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you wouldn't need to worry at all about the contents of the string < 1224256816 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it'd be used by making an interpreter in the beginning of the program, then running the string < 1224256819 0 :Jiminy_Cricket!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :No route to host < 1224256827 0 :omniscient_idiot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1224256887 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklotalk has lots of parsing features (planned that is), so it would be ideal for that sorta thing < 1224256975 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^parser parse be [[old|[str|str head = '%' if [x|] old]] [^parser parse]] < 1224256995 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that be could be become to make the change apply from now on, rather than retroactively < 1224257025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1224257029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun < 1224257041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, most of the identifiers will probably end up different < 1224257045 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and may end up in different places too < 1224257055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how does that match work < 1224257056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1224257071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's assuming that auto-unboxing and such have already been implemented, they'll be in the standard library though < 1224257084 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, parse takes a string as input and returns a function as output < 1224257094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1224257107 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the new parser is defined in terms of the old one < 1224257111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1224257127 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it compares [str head] (the square brackets are like parens) with '%' < 1224257131 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by telling it to compare itself with '%' < 1224257140 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that returns a boolean object < 1224257157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1224257157 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its if method returns its first arg if it's true or its second arg if it's false < 1224257164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, could feather become any other language? < 1224257168 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of those is a NOP whatever its argument < 1224257171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the other is the old parser < 1224257177 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think so < 1224257185 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would need to get input from somewhere, though < 1224257189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, the actual program to run < 1224257200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so what if you made it C, how would it access mmap() and such? < 1224257201 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you wrote the program as a Feather/Befunge polyglot from the start, which could be fun < 1224257212 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you'd have to implement them in Feather < 1224257222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the file system too? < 1224257231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I/O and standard library and such couldn't be in part of the becomed language unless they were in Feather's stdlib to start with < 1224257234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :file I/O probably would be though < 1224257240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224257289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway what does the ^ mean? < 1224257292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in your examples < 1224257298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it refers to "this object" < 1224257301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like this in C++ < 1224257312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are certain properties like stdlib that every object has < 1224257317 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahahaha, you've inversed F# ;) < 1224257319 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can access them from anywhere < 1224257322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if you could have that on the first line as first char, the befunge/feather polygot would be easy < 1224257329 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1224257337 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more to the point, it's trivial to get a [ on first line as first char < 1224257345 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that also would make Befunge/Feather an easy polyglot < 1224257349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yep < 1224257358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I think ^ is the right character < 1224257366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would it handle the befunge program overwriting parts of the feather code? < 1224257368 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what I actually wanted is whatever Smalltalk uses in that sort of context < 1224257381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it wouldn't care, at the time the Befunge program ran the Feather code would no longer exist < 1224257384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224257388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except as the Befunge interp < 1224257408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if Feather modified itself into Befunge itself, you couldn't modify it back as Befunge has no command to retroactively change itself into Feather < 1224257422 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you could modify it into a Befunge-like lang that could change back, maybe have it in a fingerprint... < 1224257438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it could have that as a fingerprint or the same way that ick uses the middot < 1224257442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, modifying Feather into Befunge definitely qualifies as an insane change < 1224257460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and yeah. What about changing it into scheme? < 1224257462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you want stdlib to work after that, you're on your own < 1224257481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :likewise for most langs < 1224257495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rule for a sane Feather parser change is that in addition to the other requirements to be sane, it has to be backwards-compatible < 1224257512 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. all legal programs under the old parser do the same thing, or the same thing and additional things, under the new parser < 1224257520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so what about become instead of be? < 1224257521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, modifying the lang to make it run under a debugger is sane < 1224257525 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: become is always sane < 1224257527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't you say that worked around the issue < 1224257540 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :become on the parser would have no effect until you tried to parse something, though < 1224257550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as at that point you've already parsed your original program < 1224257564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas be will modify the parser before it parsed your original program, that's what makes it a lot less sane < 1224257746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224257761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about one affecting every line of come from after this line? < 1224257777 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"come from" is a bit hard to define in a functional lang < 1224257810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, code* < 1224257812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not come* < 1224257830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typoed < 1224257891 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the entire program is parsed first then run < 1224257915 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it could be done < 1224257925 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd use be, but cause the parser to act the same way for earlier code < 1224257926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that could he the sane way to protect syslib? < 1224257930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc you have to define "earlier" somehow < 1224257934 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, that would be sane < 1224257955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define "earlier" as before some special marker < 1224257969 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"before"? < 1224257973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the code is only linear in source form < 1224257978 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once it's a function, before has less of a meaning < 1224257983 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure it would be possible, though < 1224258004 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :annotate all functions with the position in the source code they were generated from, for instance < 1224258010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : the code is only linear in source form < 1224258015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what about making it into cat? < 1224258096 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, cat would be trivial < 1224258114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... you could do a Feather quine by causing the parser to output its input rather than parsing it, retroactively < 1224258279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, then the source needs to be in linear form doesn't it? < 1224258287 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1224258290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what the source code is < 1224258294 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's like any other compiled lang < 1224258298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have the source, and the executable < 1224258310 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Feather, though, the executable can modify the source and it changes accordingly, whilst still running < 1224258313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hotpatching ftw! < 1224258341 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... lazy parsing might be useful in Feather, not necessary, but nice < 1224258348 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'll make stdlib retroactively add it < 1224258378 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-39-168.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224258426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you could add it from within feather anyway ;P < 1224258432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224258441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is simply a discussion about what would be useful in the stdlib < 1224258452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, what changes the stdlib makes at the start of any program < 1224258467 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nature of any Feather interp is that it has to be written entirely in Feather < 1224258476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nature of RL is that they have to be written in something else to start it off < 1224258498 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you start off with two versions of the same interp, one in Feather, one in some other lang, which both do exactly the same thing < 1224258542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems like a better bet than hoping a Feather interp will spontaneously come into existence, great as that would be < 1224258555 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once Feather is running, it's under the impression that there are an infinite number of layers of Feather interps under it < 1224258569 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if you ever go down far enough that you reach the bottom, you can retroactively add more underneath < 1224258604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however you can, of course, expose the mechanism for doing that so it doesn't fool if you want to < 1224259022 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leaving for about 20 mins, going to a different Internet connection < 1224259106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1224260040 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-3-244.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224260807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb ais523 < 1224260854 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1224261159 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1224261318 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-112-57-215.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1224261448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm should I make TRDS interaction undefined or leave it as the demons bit? < 1224261462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider I plan to let Mike Riley see this standard < 1224261462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just leave it as demons < 1224261481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every C programmer ought to know what that means anyway < 1224261485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1224261491 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it wouldn't be the first lang with a physically unimplementable spec < 1224261509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh no, it is implementable < 1224261511 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(HOMESPRING requires the interpreter to produce a temporal paradox upon encountering the character string . .) < 1224261517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Using TRDS and ATHR in combination shall cause implementation-defined demons to < 1224261517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fly out of the Funge programmer's nose." < 1224261526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the key is "implementation-defined" demons < 1224261533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just define it to NULL < 1224261535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1224261541 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it an implementation-defined nose too? < 1224261556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no but that wouldn't be needed, would it? < 1224261574 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is to get null pointers out of the programmer's nose < 1224261580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just define those demons to "no demons" then? < 1224261582 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might not be trivial, they might not have a nose for instance < 1224261603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for (i=0; i < 0; i++) { release_demon(&nose); } < 1224261611 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1224261621 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: why the big sad left-handed smiley? < 1224261626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, any sane compiler would optimise that away < 1224261653 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of so much demons < 1224261656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... how many languages let you declare but not define a function if you never use it? < 1224261659 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C does, and VHDL does < 1224261664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder which others? < 1224261682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well that wouldn't help here < 1224261704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no < 1224261707 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe < 1224261718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc would leave no references to release_demon in the object file < 1224261723 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you were optimising < 1224261734 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you wouldn't get the link fail that you normally get for referencing a non-existent function < 1224261747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the variable nose could be an issue < 1224261750 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :&nose would have to mean something, but I suppose nose could just be an extern variable... < 1224261753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you have to have a static variable < 1224261757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have < 1224261769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for (i=0; i < 0; i++) { release_demon_in_nose(); } < 1224261782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all since that is all about side effects anyway < 1224261880 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it can be a static variable in a non-existent function < 1224261966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1224262054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I read about solving sodoku using the debian package manager's dependency resolution stuff... But what about using make? < 1224262065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that powerful enough? < 1224262069 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is make TC, I wonder? < 1224262081 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be surprised if it was a lower computational class than dpkg < 1224262095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is dpkg tc? < 1224262114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, I don't see why it would be though < 1224262118 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas TC make makes sense < 1224262136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it is non-trivial to answer that for make. Since there are so many make dialects < 1224262155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pmake and gnu make are the most common ones probably < 1224262368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in ick, what is "arrgghh.o"? < 1224262379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it handles command line arguments for generated programs < 1224262386 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deals with +wimpmode, +instapipe, and so on < 1224262396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does arrrghh.c say: < 1224262398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * SYNOPSIS: ick_parseargs(argc,argv) < 1224262398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * FILE : ick_parseargs.c < 1224262406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case < 1224262428 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, presumably it was called parseargs.c before it was renamed to have a funky ick-name < 1224262437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that must have been ages ago, probably I could find it in the changelog if I looked < 1224262447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need < 1224262449 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the ick_ prefix is because I put ick_prefixes on everything < 1224262457 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when implementing the FFI < 1224262459 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to avoid collisions < 1224262474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the changelog? NEWS? < 1224262478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224262488 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, genuinely, a changelog < 1224262495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing about it in NEWS < 1224262501 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rename won't be there < 1224262507 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the implementation of +wimpmode will be < 1224262529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : that must have been ages ago, probably I could find it in the changelog if I looked < 1224262533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1224262534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224262542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the file naming < 1224262545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1224263904 0 :Mony!n=AssHole@AToulouse-258-1-104-60.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224263959 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plop < 1224264050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why plop? < 1224264077 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :juste because < 1224264116 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not ? < 1224264763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed why not < 1224266032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well anyway I will begin messing with input buffering in efunge to make it compatible with ATHR. Implementing ATHR will take some time < 1224266041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I don't have a lot of that currently < 1224266051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, you're planning to actually implement it? < 1224266083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes of course < 1224266084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in efunge < 1224266087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in cfunge < 1224266095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so don't worry about it messing up ick < 1224266112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I suspect doing it in C would be a pain anyway < 1224266135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, didn't you think I would implement it?! < 1224266171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there are a lot of random lang ideas which are thrown around here and then not implemented < 1224266180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, of course TRDS won't ever be supported < 1224266191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my interpreters < 1224266199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not even if you write featherfunge some day? < 1224266202 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would probably be trivial in that < 1224266230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I consider that a very hypothetical question. < 1224266237 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, exactly < 1224266241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) There is no working Feather yet < 1224266244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that involves having a working Feather first < 1224266252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you being motivated to write a Funge interp in it < 1224266258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) I never said I would write a feather funge indeed < 1224266316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway are there any languages other than erlang where ATHR would be reasonably easy to implement? < 1224266326 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Befunge, I think < 1224266337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, "ATHR may not be implemented as synchronous by lazy programmers writing a < 1224266337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funge-implementation. That is considered very bad style. ATHR should be truly < 1224266337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asynchronous." < 1224266347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VERY BAD STYLE < 1224266349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... ok < 1224266351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the style police will kill you < 1224266355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at night < 1224266356 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about INTERCAL < 1224266370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does it have something async enough? < 1224266376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how about "my language DOES NOT SUPPORT truly asynchronous threads, shut up and let me implement it for compatibility" < 1224266377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has synchronous multithreading in theory, but it's easier to treat it as asynch rather than trying to figure out how the synchrony works < 1224266395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also "truly asynchronous threads" are impossible on a single-core system. < 1224266407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I was planning distributed < 1224266416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has ONCE/AGAIN and ABSTAIN/REINSTATE as its atomic primitives < 1224266426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: let people implement it however. < 1224266441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually all commands are atomic in the current implementation, but ONCE/AGAIN/ABSTAIN/REINSTATE are the only keywords for which atomicity matters) < 1224266450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, Uf you feel offended you may have a better wording? I just want discourage it being implemented the same way as t by lazy programmers < 1224266461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it won't be... < 1224266463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Uf/If/ < 1224266465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the whole purpose is not being t < 1224266468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so just remove the paragraph < 1224266472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus, its very self-evident from reading it < 1224266475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well Deewiant seemed to suggest doing it that way < 1224266478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: actually, I'd probably lazily implement it t-style < 1224266479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... < 1224266482 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I just wanted to get something working < 1224266493 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'd deliberately skip steps every now and then at random < 1224266500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make it actually asynchronous < 1224266502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then < 1224266504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let them do that < 1224266507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's nothing wrong with that. < 1224266518 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like all my HQ9+ interps have an accumulator, even though there's no way to tell from inside the program that it's there < 1224266641 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should have a -O flag :) < 1224266682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: that should store the accumulator in a register, for faster access < 1224266784 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and possibly interleave consecutuve < 1224266794 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*consecutive +s < 1224267113 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: huh? when did I say that < 1224267136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, in this channel < 1224267155 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: when, not where. < 1224267164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION greps log < 1224267320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it was when discussing MVRS and ATHR < 1224267338 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give me a quote or timestamp < 1224267352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okt 16 13:08:08 AnMaster: but we wanted the option of sync vs. async < 1224267365 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@m-85.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1224267367 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that was about MVRS < 1224267377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, while you didn't say it straight out, what you said seemed to imply you wanted sync ATHR < 1224267392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okt 16 13:03:36 right, but what would ATHRs containing MVRSs even be? < 1224267394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example < 1224267394 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that was wholly about MVRS < 1224267402 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that latter was just me not understanding < 1224267410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, them I'm sorry is if I misunderstood < 1224267422 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine < 1224267435 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sorry I was misunderstood :-P < 1224267477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway MVRS is too badly specced to be sure, So I'm going to contact Riley with the spec when I worked out the output bit and try to fix that < 1224267490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, also did you see the last version where "mutex" have become "book"? < 1224267493 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MVRS is much less than it was supposed to be < 1224267510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/BETCqd29.html < 1224267512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the current one < 1224267513 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, but I didn't really read through the earlier ATHR specs in detail either :-P < 1224267539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway mutexes are now books in a library :P < 1224267555 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds to me like you've had too much to do with INTERCAL < 1224267564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's a very INTERCAL-like analogy < 1224267575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I added the security considerations there < 1224267584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, great < 1224267587 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have a look at them < 1224267599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and what is wrong with that? < 1224267613 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing really, just making an observation :-P < 1224267620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1224267650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, "too much" often indicates "more than what is a good idea" implying something is wrong < 1224267666 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, having anything to do with INTERCAL is arguably a bad idea ;-) < 1224267671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any amount is too much to do with INTERCAL, probably < 1224267672 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: snap < 1224267974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1224268009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: we both said much the same thing, that was what the snap was about < 1224268015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224268017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an idiom that comes from a children's game < 1224268024 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people take turns revealing cards from the top of a deck < 1224268029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1224268034 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when two the same in a row are revealed, the first person to say "Snap!" wins < 1224268040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's all about reactions, really < 1224268054 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are also various rules about how you can reveal the cards, as an anti-cheating measure < 1224268066 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to prevent people looking at the cards before other people can see them) < 1224268226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ehird Deewiant, do you like the new top section better in http://rafb.net/p/18vBZT98.html < 1224268259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224268262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still says DRAFT < 1224268263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the security consideration too < 1224268272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+!DRAFT!++!DRAFT!++!DRAFT!++!DRAFT!++!DRAFT!++!DRAFT!++!DRAFT!++!DRAFT!++!DRAFT!++!DRAFT!++!DRAFT!+ < 1224268273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, of course, because it is still a draft < 1224268277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't done yet < 1224268284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we all know that < 1224268287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is why there is a TODO comment in the IO section < 1224268294 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is Heikki Kallasjoki, btw? < 1224268295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we wouldn't take some random pastebin post as something we should go implement right now < 1224268298 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fizzie < 1224268298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, fizzie < 1224268299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hilariously over the top < 1224268321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I believe I gave my reasons for it yesterday < 1224268323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... < 1224268327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not any good ones < 1224268329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please see that < 1224268334 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what were the reasons again? < 1224268397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that if nothing else, working with befunge programmers have taught me that it is better to over-specify and try to be extra clear (not sure if that is the right English word)... < 1224268409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why not? < 1224268413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because someone will surely interpret anything you didn't state in a way you didn't intent < 1224268423 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are Befunge programs generally sloppy and ambiguous? < 1224268425 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*programmers < 1224268451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no, but considering all the disputes about what fingerprint specs, or even the funge-98 spec actually means... < 1224268461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats because they're both written rubbishly < 1224268464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even for some cats eye fingerprints... < 1224268466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't mean you should go so over the top < 1224268482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I believe the English idiom is "better safe than sorry" < 1224268488 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it is < 1224268497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, OVERENGINEERING is FUN < 1224268507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no its not < 1224268508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well yeah but only on school assignments < 1224268512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not when AnMaster is being serious < 1224268512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::\ < 1224268531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, You just fail at meta-meta-meta-humor :P < 1224268666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It'd help if it was funny < 1224268679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: actually it's funnier because it's serious < 1224268687 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and AnMaster: one too many metas I think, unless I'm missing something < 1224268688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i disagree totally < 1224268779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, actually I think I may have forgot a meta < 1224268975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you can have ATHR without having t. < 1224268982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1224269964 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1224270049 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : please please don't let this become sort of channel in-joke < 1224270051 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sucker! < 1224270066 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, DRAFT DRAFT DRAFT DRAFT < 1224270099 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | This channel is a !! DRAFT !! DRAFT !! DRAFT !! DRAFT !! < 1224270336 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DROFT < 1224270353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this channel is daft, more like < 1224270362 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You hurt my feelings < 1224270370 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and has a lot of drift < 1224270388 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drip < 1224270409 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drop < 1224270411 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :droop < 1224270454 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drambuie < 1224270465 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drum < 1224270477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DRAFT < 1224270485 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DRAT < 1224270488 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION dodges the draft < 1224270511 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION writes it up in case Slereah_ ever tries to run for president < 1224270557 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS IS A MUDSLINGING CAMPAIGN DESIGNED TO SULLY MY GOOD NAME < 1224270563 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'M A HARD WORKING AMERICAN < 1224270571 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY FATHER WAS JOE SIXPACK < 1224270578 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY MOTHER WAS JOE THE PLUMBER < 1224270587 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1224270615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was amused at all the focus on Joe the Plumber, when he seems to be some sort of richish entrepreneur, not the sort of typical American at all < 1224270620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, "BAD: i should have pushed (90, 16) as Vb", why is it so hard to output what it pushed instead? :/ < 1224270639 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What of Joe Sixpack? < 1224270645 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is he a real hardworking American? < 1224270650 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because doing that requires a lot more code and it's possible that it didn't even push anything < 1224270676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah hm < 1224270806 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: a beer reporter, says google < 1224270819 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this a hard working job? < 1224270828 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly < 1224270896 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends how bad the beer is < 1224270916 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but face it, there's a beer market out there < 1224270939 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.boxingdaily.co.uk/wp-content/img/notasixer.JPG < 1224270945 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is apparently Joe Sixpack < 1224270977 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://media1.break.com/dnet/media/2007/11/27halloween.jpg < 1224271242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but...Canada < 1224271249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he either loves nomic < 1224271251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or HATES AMERICA < 1224271286 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can a man with such a moustache really hate America? < 1224271303 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He also has arms that bear arms < 1224271379 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doges the draft by 4Fing out < 1224271406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : {MaxX, MaxY} = load_binary(Binary, Fungespace, TrueX, TrueY, false, TrueX, undefined), < 1224271409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that is crazy < 1224271419 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4f? < 1224271433 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exempt from military service for medical reasons. < 1224271435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the two last parameters are only there because of i < 1224271449 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mental disability in my case, amusingly. < 1224271497 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq : How are you mentally disabled? < 1224271504 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Autism. < 1224271505 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have... ASPERGERS? < 1224271509 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn, so close! < 1224271546 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it weren't for that, I could feasibly pull off conscientous objector. < 1224271564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"conscientous objector"? < 1224271610 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One who objects to military service for philosophical or religious reasons. < 1224271628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224271646 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, a coward < 1224271660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a pacifist. < 1224271703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can autism get you off the draft? < 1224271707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, unless it was severe autism. < 1224271716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you sure don't act like it :-P < 1224271991 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The military tends to be pretty picky when it comes to mental status. < 1224272002 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keep in mind: they considered *Feynman* mentally unfit. ;p < 1224272030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb ais523 < 1224272071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm anyone got a program testing i in binary mode? < 1224272074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, maybe you? < 1224272125 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1224272137 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except mycology < 1224272147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it only does it in text mode iirc < 1224272152 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it does both < 1224272157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, really? < 1224272159 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224272165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, where? < 1224272169 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where it tests i < 1224272200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well why then doesn't it crash or report BAD? Since I don't implement the binary one yet. < 1224272216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I implement i but not o btw < 1224272219 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs o I think < 1224272223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1224272228 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it does < 1224272232 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it writes a .tmp < 1224272235 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and reads it back in with binary i < 1224272304 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hmm, does it say anything about lack of o? < 1224272326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Successfully exited MycoRand. Rerun a few times to ensure ? works. < 1224272327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD: i works in text mode < 1224272327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opening mycotmp0.tmp... failed. < 1224272327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to write to it with o... < 1224272327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNDEF: writing to mycotmp0.tmp with o failed < 1224272330 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why don't every draft dodgers register as consciencious objectors? < 1224272340 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, do they check it or something? < 1224272349 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: right < 1224272350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, y only claims to implement i < 1224272367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so why it tries testing it at all and report it as UNDEF... no idea < 1224272375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like a bug < 1224272388 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because the code there is compact and changing it from BAD to UNDEF was easiest < 1224272402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah, and no room to expand? < 1224272409 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly < 1224272415 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycorand.bf is loaded nearby < 1224272425 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what exactly goes where there < 1224272435 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'd rather not expand < 1224272437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah... < 1224272449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but it is all relative storage offset so that is easy < 1224272458 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ? < 1224272469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, i is relative storage offset. < 1224272470 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is that mycorand.bf is there somewhere, but not in the source code < 1224272482 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I don't know where I can expand without running into mycorand.bf stuff < 1224272485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so just moving everything down a few lines should work? < 1224272491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you properly use storage offset < 1224272510 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't, there < 1224272515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1224272527 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably wouldn't be too hard to make it do so though < 1224272532 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but annoying < 1224272536 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can't be bothered < 1224272555 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: at least here in norway, if you register as a conscientous objector, you have to do some civilian community work instead < 1224272579 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't you also be an objector to that? < 1224272583 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like saying "I'm an anarchist" < 1224272601 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: no. then you go to prison, i believe. < 1224272610 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What dicks < 1224272619 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pay taxes! I don't need to work for you! < 1224272629 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't pay taxes to Norway < 1224272630 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still < 1224272686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes you do! < 1224272701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I can avoid it for two reasons 1) Gov cuts down on military anyway all the time 2) I got asthma, so health reasons as well < 1224272721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they didn't even contact me about it. heh < 1224272729 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well (1) applies in norway too, it would be stupid to object _before_ you're called in < 1224272823 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: can you hg pull a Mycology from 88.114.230.95:8000? < 1224272853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, a sec < 1224272861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what is the hg command? < 1224272875 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if you have a repository, hg pull, if not, hg clone < 1224272885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ hg clone 88.114.230.95:8000 mycology < 1224272885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :abort: repository 88.114.230.95:8000 not found! < 1224272895 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http < 1224272898 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::// < 1224272899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1224272921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Successfully exited MycoRand. Rerun a few times to ensure ? works. < 1224272921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD: i works in text mode < 1224272921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opening mycotmp0.tmp... failed. < 1224272921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to write to it with o... < 1224272923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still like that < 1224272928 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know < 1224272929 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what after that < 1224272937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNDEF: writing to mycotmp0.tmp with o failed: can't test i in binary mode < 1224272937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1y says this is not Concurrent Funge-98, won't test t... < 1224272941 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great < 1224272956 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: says explicitly that it isn't testing i in binary mode because of no o < 1224272956 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mycology. < 1224272966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah < 1224272980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, still tries o even when it isn't supported though ;P < 1224272988 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: even fitting that string in took a bit of messing about which is why I asked you to test < 1224272996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1224273045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you could potentially test it on mycorand.bf < 1224273057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to see if it is read correctly by i when i is in binary mode < 1224273070 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I could < 1224273074 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't. :-P < 1224273159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway when ATHR goes final and efunge implemented it, will you consider implementing it in ccbi2? < 1224273177 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :m a y b e < 1224273213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, maybe you could send those MVRS change suggestions to Riley? < 1224273224 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :m a y b e < 1224273224 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1224273225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise ATHR is actually more useful since it is better defined < 1224273240 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might spam him when I get around to implementing it < 1224273251 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can't really be bothered right now < 1224273258 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you are bothered, better that you do it < 1224273273 0 :ab5tract!n=ab5tract@pool-71-246-5-13.phlapa.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1224273290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, also it doesn't seem to allow lacking support for trefunge/unefunge, only for befunge-93/funge-98/funge-108 < 1224273341 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funge-108?? < 1224273358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, work in progress, clearing up issues in funge-98 < 1224273365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :may become funge-109 ;P < 1224273369 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1224273374 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds better that way anyway < 1224273377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1224273381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1224273403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, it depends on when I finish it and when feedback from others are finished < 1224273410 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just does < 1224273422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, see http://kuonet.org/~anmaster/funge-108/funge108.pdf < 1224273433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it replaces fingerprints with uris too < 1224273451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to avoid collisions < 1224273473 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1224273474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract: There are no actual funge-108 implementations, likely will never be any outside of AnMaster's implementations, and there will likely not be any non-anmaster programs written in it. < 1224273482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is my assesment. < 1224273485 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1224273500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well Mike Riley did show some interest in it < 1224273513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, while URIs are good for...universally identifying stuff (as in... their whole purpose)...it just makes the funge code ugly because the URIs take up whole lines. < 1224273514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only he didn't want to implement proper URI comparing < 1224273532 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: so what < 1224273546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract: funge code is generally pretty < 1224273557 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could still be pretty < 1224273561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mycology is? < 1224273565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224273574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so would it be with embedded uris IMO < 1224273583 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have a stack on your stack stack that just stacks uris < 1224273597 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and put them somewhere far out in the space, all together in a neat order < 1224273630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, name collisions were a problem before < 1224273632 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course i'm visualizing this entirely according to what i envisage as the perfect funge ide < 1224273651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, IDEs? Why would you need that < 1224273660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all you need is a emacs major-mode < 1224273661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1224273676 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that funge doesnt read like a a linear ascii file anymore < 1224273677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract: i'm planning on making a funge ide < 1224273685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including fizzie's hyperlink-comment idea think < 1224273686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*thing < 1224273692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, I hardly ever use IDEs for anything < 1224273714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from CDs < 1224273718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I normally use SATA :P < 1224273737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and no I don't use IDE in the other meaning either) < 1224273756 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well shit, AnMaster you have that emacs together and i'll use it once i can directly download emacs bindings coordination through a memory expansion through a e-sata port in my skull < 1224273770 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but probably not before that :) < 1224273789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, Try kate then? Currently I'm using kate to edit some Erlang code < 1224273793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and irc in emacs < 1224273799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and emacs for some other C files < 1224273805 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i want is a window that shows the space < 1224273823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, hm? < 1224273829 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i can zoom and fly around it and whatnot < 1224273830 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs is excellent for VHDL, I find < 1224273835 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with all sorts of bookmarks < 1224273838 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VHDL's syntax is obnoxious < 1224273844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, that only make sense for trefunge < 1224273848 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so Emacs has a little wizard-like thing for each keyword < 1224273851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for befunge a text editor is just fine < 1224273856 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it can make sense for mbefunge as well < 1224273862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hehe < 1224273863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... < 1224273876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mbefunge? < 1224273885 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: typo < 1224273887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224273904 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1224273907 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract: you've named it, you now have to invent it < 1224273910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, anyway opengl based such stuff have been done, but generally they suck < 1224273916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bequnge or something iirc < 1224273923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fails totally in mycology < 1224273925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk food < 1224273955 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what's your ide going to look like? < 1224273960 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-127-174.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1224273974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract: awesome < 1224273984 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :swtjc < 1224274001 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you gonna write it in funge? < 1224274242 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: is emacs capable of having a zoomed out map of an entire 64-bit space? < 1224274266 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously it would have to be a pretty complex program for anything to even show up at that distance < 1224274275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1224274282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it would mostly show up as sameness if it did < 1224274292 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because a program that big's likely to be using its fungespace to store data rather than program < 1224274298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i wont < 1224274299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1224274310 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the idea is to be able to navigate the space on an x,y, and even z access < 1224274323 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: precisely < 1224274366 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :z probably not being allowed to go negative < 1224274397 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can zoom out and check out all yo' data < 1224274457 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, if emacs gives a great deal of x,y freedom then it would give me the most important feature i seek < 1224274475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract: emacs has picture-mode < 1224274477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: is emacs capable of having a zoomed out map of an entire 64-bit space? < 1224274482 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't have a zoom IIRC < 1224274486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that is feasible < 1224274498 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, ab5tract, stop having a 5 in your name, it makes me think people are talking to me when they talk to you < 1224274507 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry buddy < 1224274515 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm used to being the only 5-containing-person around here < 1224274519 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not gonna happen :P < 1224274520 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but don't worry about it < 1224274530 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have an exclusive right to 5s... < 1224274553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, also as I said when you had left channel in answer to GUI framework < 1224274560 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if irc were truly cool i coud use the befunge version of my name < 1224274568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) gs is part of standard erlang. It uses Tk. < 1224274588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) Wings3D (a 3D modeller in Erlang) uses some custom-made one that renders to OpenGL < 1224274598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3) fizzie added there was erlgtk < 1224274608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there may be more < 1224274609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1224274615 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1224274628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, but bindings for funge would be painful < 1224274653 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the idea of funge on erlang is very cool < 1224274656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, but since I plan to make = *evaluate erlang*, this may be a good idea < 1224274661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it may not < 1224274674 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to write a funge interp in something silly now < 1224274679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Thutu, that would be a disaster < 1224274683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway doing = as system() would be truly painful in erlang < 1224274688 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can, apparently, with a bit of twiddling, use Tile (the less sucky Tk widget set) with Tkinter (the Python Tk bindings); I wonder if that's the case of 'gs' too. < 1224274699 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... actually, I have some ideas how a Thutu interp for Befunge-93 could work... < 1224274699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, anyway efunge now have i also, but not o t or = yet < 1224274719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, t may never happen, since it will have ATHR < 1224274723 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you must do that < 1224274744 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I have lots of other esostuff I want to do < 1224274749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, however, I must warn you that I'm a I'm a slow worker, especially during non-holidays < 1224274749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and two RL projects which are almost eso < 1224274751 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: funge-108 should just assume ATHR < 1224274767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and no idea about that for gs < 1224274773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gs stands for graphic server btw < 1224274780 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "almost eso" sounds pretty cool < 1224274783 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason I find the Tk look quaint. < 1224274801 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract: I described my University fourth-year Masters project in this channel < 1224274803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it reminds me of mosaic yes... < 1224274803 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because its like pre-motif right? < 1224274805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the people here said I was mad < 1224274815 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1224274816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I think it used motif < 1224274826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes mosaic did indeed < 1224274837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1224274840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tk isnt as old as motif < 1224274840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1224274843 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Tile is part of the 8.5 Tcl/Tk release. Didn't know that. < 1224274845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tk has modern widget sets nowadays < 1224274849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, looks similar < 1224274854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe < 1224274880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not maybe < 1224274881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does < 1224274882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know for a fact < 1224274885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what I wonder is how Tk can work with gs since I have no tcl installed < 1224274892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1224274894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't tcl < 1224274902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's tclsh8.4 < 1224274906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah so I have it < 1224274922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb ais523 < 1224274977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1224276054 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Hey, try speaking like Terry Pratchett writes. Just for curiosity's sake. < 1224276054 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: no, that was their trouble... < 1224276067 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Pretty please? < 1224276068 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ( kids generally, i meet people before they're buried./ ones near/ coast build rafts and head out across lonely seas to lands that are :) little clouded or full of stormy weather. < 1224276094 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_Really_, that "other text than irclogs" script has some serious issues with :) and /. < 1224276129 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmm... < 1224276201 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, no. It's just that the text generation code in fungot has a hardcoded list of punctuation tokens, but since :) and / are so _rare_ in the source text, they are not used, and in their place there's some of the most common tokens. < 1224276201 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: carrot took another step back. then, his claws fnord tracks in/ floor above. every so often. < 1224276228 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think "the" has been mapped to / here, and :) maybe to "a". < 1224276265 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's easy to fix. Thanks for clarifying it. < 1224276435 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :carrot doesn't have claws! < 1224276448 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR DO THEY < 1224276524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fungot: Hey, try speaking like Terry Pratchett writes. Just for curiosity's sake. < 1224276525 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ( i know." :) stubby troll finger prodded cuddy in/ back of his mind. < 1224276528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would that be? < 1224276534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have read all the books of course < 1224276553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait... You mean like Carrot? with misplaced , < 1224276554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and such < 1224276557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or like Vampires? < 1224276577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait a sec < 1224276586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: ( i know." :) stubby troll finger prodded cuddy in/ back of his mind. <-- huh < 1224276595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you reloaded word list? < 1224276600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also did it crash now? < 1224276603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, < 1224276607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo foo < 1224276609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess so < 1224276615 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I was just scp'ing the new model over and you went and talked to it. :p < 1224276618 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer) < 1224276638 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1224276648 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot's problem with :) and / should now be fixed. < 1224276648 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: " oh. pardon me, i'm just a novice, but he couldn't quite see what it did to metal. < 1224276663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, :) < 1224276663 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: " you can damn well find another witch for lancre! for the fnord < 1224276685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I fear the " mess up the effect < 1224276687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same for :) < 1224276706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a fan of those books. Yet they lack :) as far as I remember < 1224276706 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the " comes from the source text. < 1224276715 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that was the problem. < 1224276718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, which book(s) did you use? < 1224276732 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There were no :)s and :(s so it removed those tokens, but fungot's punctuation list is hardcoded. < 1224276732 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: " will you look at that sky?' < 1224276751 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the two most common tokens ("the" and "a") were translated to the two last punctuation tokens (:) and /) by fungot. < 1224276751 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: he turned and waved at someone in the face. < 1224276754 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's fixed now. < 1224276766 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The " comes from the source text, though. Lots of quoted text there. < 1224276803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well yeah, all the talk < 1224276813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway *what books*? < 1224276822 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used the Discworld books 1, 3, 7, 8, 9, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 23, 25, 26 and 27. < 1224276838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, where did you get electronic copies? < 1224276839 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mainly because those were in the highly illegal ebook pile I once got. < 1224276844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah... < 1224276853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, So what ones are those? < 1224276856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Titles I mean < 1224276888 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Colour of Magic, Equal Rites, Pyramids, Guards! Guards!, Eric, Small Gods, Lords and Ladies, Men At Arms, Soul Music, Interesting Times, ... < 1224276899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also lacking number 2 is kind of painful if you have number 1. Since 1 ends with "to be continued" < 1224276915 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maskerade, Feet of Clay, Hogfather, Jingo, Carpe Jugulum, The Truth, The Thief of Time, The Last Hero. < 1224276918 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither 1 nor 2 is much good anyway < 1224276924 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of the later ones are good, though < 1224276924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, agreed < 1224276929 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably 3 was the first good one < 1224276939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Thief of time is my favourite < 1224276960 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my favourite are the Ankh-Morpork Watch trilogy, but thief of time is good too < 1224276967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trilogy? < 1224276971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it more than that now? < 1224276993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I suppose so < 1224277003 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not counting night watch as part of that trilogy, although it's OK < 1224277018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets see, 7 < 1224277020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1224277026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some more depending on how you count < 1224277031 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thief of time is probably my favourite too, though I liked the Bromeliad trilogy < 1224277056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you think about the last one? Nation? < 1224277065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't read it < 1224277072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is pretty good, but kind of non-Pratchett in style < 1224277134 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't read anything later-than-or-equal-to Going Postal yet, actually. < 1224277153 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Going Postal series is pretty good, actually < 1224277159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well I got the complete collection of all books apart from some child books < 1224277160 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... some of the books I have to read multiple times to understand < 1224277172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going Postal is one of them, but once I got it I liked it < 1224277174 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster : Do you have the non-discworld books too? < 1224277175 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get maurice and the amazing cat :D < 1224277177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_, yes < 1224277179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the maps < 1224277187 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(err... Maurice and his amazing rodents) < 1224277192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal, that one too < 1224277193 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even... The unadultarated cat? :o < 1224277196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_, yep < 1224277197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1224277206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_, I don't have that "where is my cow" < 1224277216 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It never got translated in French, so I wonder if it's well known < 1224277223 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have it, but I had to order it < 1224277230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_, err why would French be of any interest? < 1224277238 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I am Fronch < 1224277242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I live in Sweden after all < 1224277244 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And all other books are translated < 1224277253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_, well I get them in English anyway < 1224277254 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even shitty ones like Dark side of the sun < 1224277263 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the Johnny books < 1224277263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :preserves the language, reading in original language < 1224277269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_, dark side isn't that bad < 1224277277 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I personally only own The Science of Discworld 1/2/3 and some (around six?) random Discworld books, probably with a uniform distribution of Finnish translations (received as gifts) and English versions (bought for reading when travelling). < 1224277282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_, what do you think about Carpet people? < 1224277289 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's good < 1224277299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_, do you have new or original version? < 1224277302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only got the new one < 1224277320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_, also that is another thing I miss, some of the discworld diaries < 1224277334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_, also I assume you got the discworld quiz books? < 1224277388 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously I picked the right author for fungot to quote from. :p < 1224277388 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: " samuel!" said caleb. " everything we believe is coming true. and her leg still dropped off. so i thought i'd better make certain.' < 1224277389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I lack some of those "short stories" that are listed in "books by the same author". < 1224277419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well he is well known, he writes fantasy (though unusual such) and we are geeks. What did you expect? < 1224277438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION glares at fungot < 1224277438 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: angua picked out the little organizer and raised the cleaver and brought it down. < 1224277445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1224277446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1224277458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I think these sounds pretty bad in fact < 1224277487 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think very many other well-known fantasy authors would have multiple people here owning a rather complete collection of such a large set of books. < 1224277505 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it isn't very conversational. < 1224277509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also it would be more realistic if the space between " and the text is correct < 1224277517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot? < 1224277517 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ' it goes with us. it's very urgent.' < 1224277518 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll get to that one of these days. < 1224277526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot really? < 1224277526 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: dorfl wrote: ' wuffles ( 16), formerly of the palace. < 1224277531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1224277533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a mixup < 1224277572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what was the logic for that one? < 1224277589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, What about the copyright on your quotes? < 1224277589 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: individual concerned. of course. < 1224277598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, really? < 1224277602 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Punctuation is separate tokens, so when it choose "wuffles", it only had "wrote: '" as context. < 1224277603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah hit the limit.. < 1224277628 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | hrrm < 1224277639 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I have very many other large collections of text on my computer to use as source text. So far IRC-talk has worked best for generating IRC-talk-like text -- a huge surprise, there. < 1224277639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, "wuffles (16), formerly of the palace." kind of make sense for The Truth though < 1224277673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, maybe some space cleaning? Like removing the space after ( and such < 1224277675 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Just go back to IRC-speak. < 1224277676 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: run full, run delegate, more. < 1224277696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well now it will be that if you include this channel in the log < 1224277697 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The space after ( is just an artifact of the Funge-98 token-sequence-to-text implementation. < 1224277710 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll get it fixed at some point. < 1224277716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, maybe you should bug fizzie about refining it? < 1224277717 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you can approach it symbolically! fnord < 1224277731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, like... in lisp? But you are in Befunge... How would that work? < 1224277732 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: seems not. < 1224277747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, great that you admit your mistakes < 1224277747 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and i'm sick of arguing with trotskyists when i was there i think < 1224277757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, trotskyists? < 1224277767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what book? < 1224277789 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's IRC-speak now, probably from #scheme. < 1224277818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, using discworld was cool :P < 1224277826 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This really reminds me of arguing with Trotskyists when I was a young lad. They're all necons now, of course." was the original quote. < 1224277838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1224277863 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It used the "of arguing with" context to switch to the Trotskyists phase, and "when I was" context to go somewhere else. < 1224277914 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Discworld didn't actually work as badly as (or at least any worse than) Darwin, but it still didn't sound like conversation. < 1224277928 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I should feed it some telephone conversations. < 1224278003 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to have 86 megabytes of transcribed telephone conversations here. < 1224278020 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not quite sure what our license allows us to do with it, though. < 1224278108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you tried Darwin? < 1224278109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When? < 1224278141 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A couple of times, actually. < 1224278154 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some twenty or so books of his. < 1224278156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, got some quotes of it? < 1224278167 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it was full of :)s and /s and biology. :p < 1224278171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, Charles Darwin produced that many? < 1224278178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh < 1224278189 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same bug there. < 1224278192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and an archaic language I guess < 1224278202 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zem.fi/~fis/darwinbooks.txt is the list of books I used. < 1224278512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darwin is awesome < 1224278516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did i tell you about how he's a pope? < 1224278517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true story. < 1224278527 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whirrrr, there go the telephone conversations. < 1224278567 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5849 separate ten-minute phonecalls. < 1224278611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1224278625 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's something like a thousand hours of speech. < 1224278649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you doing < 1224278675 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Running out of memory, it seems. :p < 1224278683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i mean < 1224278685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the goooooal < 1224278693 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: fizzie's planning to feed them to fungot < 1224278693 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how dare you steal that version of hato, it's buggy < 1224278701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crazy < 1224278706 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: also: did you invent BrainfuckNomic < 1224278713 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone in ##nomic thought you did, but wasn't sure < 1224278716 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's FOR SCIENCE < 1224278718 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I don't think I did. < 1224278734 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two gigabytes of memory and two gigabytes of swap in use, I'm not sure my script can handle all that. < 1224278734 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: how about the funge spec? < 1224278744 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for fungot i mean < 1224278745 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract: you still need something to pay the coders to fix it < 1224278794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey! Who wants to roll a securely random number???? < 1224278823 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :return 4; < 1224278843 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: randomest number there is < 1224278861 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact i was thinking of exactly that < 1224278875 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone in the theoretical computer science lab has that Dilbert strip about RNGs on their door. < 1224278906 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is that strip, fizzie < 1224278913 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And here we have our random number generator..." (troll saying:) "Nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine..." "Are you sure that's random?" "That's the problem with randomness, you can never be sure." < 1224278922 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe that sort of transcription would be enough to find it. < 1224278926 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yes, that one < 1224278930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's quite a clever joke < 1224278947 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My browser seems to have hung up thanks to that Perl script eating all the memory. < 1224278962 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although usually, random numbers generator aren't made to do real randomness < 1224278966 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: maybe you should feed it less input? < 1224278969 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, at least not with the things I use 'em for < 1224278978 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They just need to fit a distribution < 1224278990 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's a good idea, but I don't want to interrupt it now, in the hopes that it will be done real-soon-now. < 1224279018 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's less raw data than the IRC logs, but apparently somewhat different, since the irc-log-model-building didn't take quite this long. < 1224279057 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, it got past stage 2 (selecting the tokens) and is now converting all the conversations to a single string of tokens. < 1224279201 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure that it will finish soon and then I'll notice that the script was somehow borken and the output is unusable. < 1224279297 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, now that I think of it, I think I ran the IRC logs thing on one of the computing cluster machines with heaps of memory, and not on my own puny computar. (Since no-one seemed to be using them right then.) < 1224279399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, they are in use now? < 1224279406 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't checked. < 1224279452 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems pretty busy, actually. Node 13 only has a load of 1, though. < 1224279454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and couldn't you do like processing it in chunks and then merging those chunks later? < 1224279472 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly, but I haven't spent much time tweaking this thing. < 1224279526 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: which cluster is that? < 1224279563 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: The HUT CIS one. Well, I guess we're now called ICS, having merged with the TCS people, and I think they're in the process of merging our computing systems. < 1224279600 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAH < 1224279608 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So much acronyms... < 1224279612 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It... Burns! < 1224279700 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HUT is Helsinki University of Technology (although they're in the process of changing the name and merging with two other universities; one for arts and one for CAPITALISM, I mean, commerce and all that stuff); CIS was Center for Information Science (maybe?), ICS is Information and Computer Science, and TCS is Theoretical Computer Science. < 1224279712 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly a case of AOL < 1224279724 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's all very confusing; I'm not quite sure where I work. < 1224279733 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you do work? < 1224279752 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have to answer that < 1224279754 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should be writing my master's thesis around now. < 1224279758 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yeah, I just checked the TCS one and it wasn't that one so I was wondering ;-) < 1224279768 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a bunch of room there if you have access to it. < 1224279813 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: There was some talk about getting the computing clusters set up so that all now-ICS-people can access both ones by October, but I haven't heard any news and/or instructions yet. < 1224279823 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They did change my numerical UID to avoid conflicts, though. < 1224279831 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1224279901 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some three of the ten "newer nodes" in the CIS cluster only have two of the four cores in use, so I guess there would technically speaking be some room there too. < 1224279915 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1224279918 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what, you're part-timing at CIS? < 1224279929 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Full-timing nowadays, doing that master's thesis thing. < 1224279945 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright < 1224279952 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was at TCS over the summer < 1224279970 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was at ICS for the last summer (2007) and got stuck there. < 1224279971 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would have probably continued if I hadn't started at HSE < 1224279989 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the script has actually finished, since the data file has stopped growing, but it's not stopping. Maybe Perl is doing that full garbage-collection trip it does when quitting. < 1224279990 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be back next summer, though. < 1224280034 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, it finished; now it's anyone's guess if my C++ code can handle building 4-grams out of that mess. < 1224280087 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I quite got the script to clean up the conversations right. < 1224280138 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :91328 unigrams, 2200072 bigrams, and now it's computing 3-gram counts. < 1224280152 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5851827 3-grams; 4-grams next. < 1224280179 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really should've done something more clever here, but I was in a hurry to get some sort of babbling out of fungot. < 1224280179 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: sounds challenging. :) i just remembered < 1224280205 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot was chattering all the time, I didn't want my bot to be so quiet. < 1224280205 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hm? < 1224280214 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: Well, you were! < 1224280215 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: there should be more of a market for esolang programmers < 1224280232 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we all agree on that one, at least. < 1224280242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1224280304 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah; I'd be worried if companies actually /wanted/ you to use esolangs < 1224280335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: if VHDL is an esolang, lots do < 1224280343 0 :slereah!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-39-168.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224280348 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it isn't, though < 1224280371 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Nokia gave me a summer job in 2006 for knowing Befunge. (Okay, so the chain of causality is maybe not exactly clear, but I'm sure that was the main reason they had.) < 1224280387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: go on < 1224280391 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1224280392 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did that happen? < 1224280405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they were interested in that he had esolangs in his hobbies section on his cv < 1224280407 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I talked about this just yesterday or so, I'm not sure I want to bore people again with it. < 1224280408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1224280413 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: sure, I'm sure it helped for my TCS summer job as well. Hell, CCBI and Mycology were pretty much the only things on my CV. < 1224280414 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a reasonable summary. < 1224280426 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ah, I wasn't here yesterday < 1224280444 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: but, nobody's wanted me to actually /use/ Funge for something :-) < 1224280448 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you, I hope. < 1224280459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i totally hope i can get a job with such achievements as "wrote a program to roll a dice between two people, cheat-proof' < 1224280461 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, no, it was just Perl. :p < 1224280543 0 :slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1224280601 0 :Fourchan_Partyva!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-39-168.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224280648 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finish, you silly little piece of code! < 1224280658 0 :Fourchan_Partyva!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Language, fizzie < 1224280664 0 :Fourchan_Partyva!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Slereah < 1224280749 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would endure this better if I wasn't so sure that it's going to just start generating messy and uninteresting jumble of words as output. < 1224280814 0 :Corun!n=Corun@94-192-102-5.zone6.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1224281221 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's only 350 lines of C++, how can it take so long to execute it! < 1224281559 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can give you 11 chars of bash which will take a while < 1224281575 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: the standard obfuscated fork bomb? < 1224281601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(){:};: is shorter, and an infiniloop I think < 1224281616 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although really we need AnMaster to check that, e's the resident Bash expert < 1224281624 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks sensible. < 1224281634 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it doesn't really < 1224281638 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't beat Windows batch, though :-P < 1224281638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only esoprogrammers write like that < 1224281640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1224281643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even Perl has more letters usually < 1224281653 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: is :(){:};: an infiniloop in bash? < 1224281656 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although hmm < 1224281660 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just being impatient because I'd like to see fungot talk like an American telephone conversationalist. < 1224281660 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: on my end, that's solved, i think < 1224281662 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@j-214.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1224281662 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does $0|$0 do < 1224281665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and does bash optimise tail-recursion, for that matter? < 1224281667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I usually don't do recursion in bash < 1224281670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never tried even < 1224281690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not the language I would write functional style in < 1224281692 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anybody want to try $0|$0? < 1224281699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, no! < 1224281701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and don't < 1224281706 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that a better fork bomb? < 1224281706 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you just divide by zero? < 1224281715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well piping bash to bash < 1224281716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1224281730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but should be better since it only start one bash in each < 1224281745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah, and no < 1224281777 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: evidently it doesn't bomb < 1224281786 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe in a file? < 1224281786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well yeah < 1224281790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still silly < 1224281794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1224281798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was debugging erlang atm < 1224281798 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1224281804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :** exception exit: {noproc,{gen_server,call,[efunge_input,stop]}} < 1224281804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : in function gen_server:call/2 < 1224281804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : in call from efunge:start/2 < 1224281805 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can't be a fork bomb < 1224281806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes no sense < 1224281808 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a pipe < 1224281810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah, indeed < 1224281811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1224281812 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a pipe bomb < 1224281818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have a fork bomb < 1224281819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a pipe < 1224281824 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: the standard obfuscated bash fork bomb has a pipe in < 1224281825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the standard bash forkbomb have a pipe < 1224281828 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a joke, AnMaster < 1224281833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I suspect Slereah was trying to make a pun < 1224281841 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bad one apparently :( < 1224281948 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: $0|$0 could be a fork bomb because it starts itself twice < 1224282001 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what all that means, Deewiant < 1224282023 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1224282039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'm loading up a VM to test it in < 1224282041 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I suck pretty hard in CS < 1224282051 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I tried it, but I'm not sure what happened < 1224282062 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: what did top say? < 1224282065 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spawned a few shells but didn't bomb < 1224282080 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seemed to have two shells running on top of each other though: every keypress was echoed twice < 1224282085 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1224282121 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits for Knoppix to detect all the fake devices on the VM < 1224282197 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: So did you run it in a file or just on the command line? < 1224282201 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: file < 1224282219 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :command line, then file, to be exact < 1224282226 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't notice anything happening from the cmdline though < 1224282258 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simple $0 on command line here is just "-bash: -bash: command not found" thanks to that '-' in the name. < 1224282289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1224282296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I got input server working < 1224282297 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would think it might work in a file, though. < 1224282304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one step towards ATHR < 1224282346 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I just tried in a VM < 1224282350 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and every window in the VM disappeared < 1224282354 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1224282370 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from the KDE toolbar along the bottom < 1224282376 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the desktop background went too... < 1224282383 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm going to bed. Good luck hosing your systems! < 1224282397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION exits the VM < 1224282400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to have crashed < 1224282405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so quite possibly a fork-bomb then < 1224282668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ul (^bf ,[.,]!Hi optbot!)S < 1224282668 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh... yeah I forgot to get rid of the newline. < 1224282669 0 :thutubot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf ,[.,]!Hi optbot! < 1224282669 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi optbot! < 1224282669 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thutubot: i guess mapcar is more descriptive < 1224282669 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: cool I think your notation makes sense then < 1224282669 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: my hypothesis has to do < 1224282670 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Ping! < 1224282670 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: i've already been using a manually downloaded eclipse so far, effectively, that it has became like ie was < 1224282670 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: it can type higher order functions and all < 1224282671 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: objc and smaltalk does... in a filter... fnord < 1224282671 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Is that valid Malbolge, Gregor? < 1224282672 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: ams isn't in gnu anymore? :) renaming whenever there's a conflict? < 1224282672 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Wheee. . . < 1224282724 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: you can say that again < 1224282724 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: 3 ihope: ps < 1224282764 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, according to a (standard outdoor-type, because we only have one fridge/freezer-specific one) thermometer our freezer is -38 degrees Celsius. I find that hard to believe. < 1224282772 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so do I < 1224283226 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should've just told that thing to use up to 3-grams. < 1224283397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://paste.lisp.org/display/68711 < 1224283399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, fizzie ^ < 1224283403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that may be interesting < 1224283409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is generated on a template < 1224283436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is how simple making a server is in erlang < 1224283437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1224283443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be shortened down a lot too < 1224283444 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's even simpler in INTERCACL < 1224283446 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*INTERCAL < 1224283448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, CLC-INTERCAL < 1224283450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, really? < 1224283456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Claudio has a 2-line pastebin server somewhere < 1224283462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the client isn't much more complicated < 1224283469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, huh? < 1224283469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not pastebin, global clipboard < 1224283485 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, everything's client-driven in CLC-INTERCAL < 1224283488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, two long messy lines? < 1224283489 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you steal data from the server < 1224283493 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and two short simple lines < 1224283499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and how long is the client? < 1224283505 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all a server has to do is go into an infiniloop < 1224283506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, since the same module includes the client < 1224283510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for the client, probably 4 or 5 < 1224283516 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me try to find the source < 1224283518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read_next_char() -> < 1224283518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : gen_server:call({global, ?SERVER}, read_char, infinity). < 1224283522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read_next_integer() -> < 1224283522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : gen_server:call({global, ?SERVER}, read_integer, infinity). < 1224283525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is all the client is < 1224283525 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd try looking but my browser is again swapped out. :p < 1224283526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really < 1224283553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? indicates "treat this as a macro" < 1224283560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :means erlang macros very clean < 1224283563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, here's the server: < 1224283565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you have to mark them < 1224283566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : DO IGNORE @1 < 1224283566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1) PLEASE COME FROM (1) < 1224283571 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1224283572 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple enough to paste into a channel < 1224283603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well... strip all comment -spec and -type from my paste and you get the bare minimal one < 1224283659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, still this was easy, I just selected gen_server template in erlange-mode in emacs. then filled it in < 1224283667 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1224283683 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'night < 1224283684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, gen_server is a design pattern < 1224283692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main one for erlang I guess < 1224283692 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Them conversations, they're so awkward. They're all like "uh so according to this we should be talking about where we get our news" "oh uh well I just watch TV" "so.. what do we do now for the next nine-and-a-half minutes?" < 1224283700 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ne regrettons pas le passé, ne nous préoccupons pas de l'avenir : le sage vit dans le présent." < 1224283706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, all the servery details is handled elsewhere, all you write is a callback module < 1224283713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ some API functions for clients < 1224283739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, huh? < 1224283745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what is the data source? < 1224283795 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1224283800 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the Fisher English Corpus (part 2) from LDC. "Conversational telephone speech". I don't know (read: haven't bothered to check) the details on how they collected that stuff. < 1224283813 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just feeding fungot the transcriptions. < 1224283814 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: where c iz a character for schwa. nothing < 1224283863 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ten-minute conversations between parties "A" and "B"; they have been anonymized. < 1224283905 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it works so that there's just two people who don't know each other, and they give them a topic to talk about and then they have to spend at least ten minutes having a conversation. < 1224283916 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-39-168.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224283941 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to thank the US Department of Defence (and DARPA) for sponsoring the data collection so that I can put it to good use like this. < 1224283950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1224283977 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Assuming my model-building task ever finishes.) < 1224283990 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a testsuite for your model-builder, obviously < 1224284111 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, our department paid for that stuff, I'm sure they wouldn't like it to go to waste. < 1224284141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, fizzie: http://paste.lisp.org/display/68711#1 < 1224284144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that may be less crufty < 1224284151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I rewrote comments to edoc style < 1224284160 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1224284161 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, relatively short < 1224284164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which also can be used to auto-generate html docs from < 1224284166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but CLC-INTERCAL still wins < 1224284166 0 :Fourchan_Partyva!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-39-168.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224284170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Documentation overload, man. Let the code speak for itself. < 1224284176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Fourchan_Partyva < 1224284180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: == Slereah < 1224284184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I guessed < 1224284185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, as I said it was generated from a template < 1224284188 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the hostname < 1224284192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, in erlang-mode < 1224284193 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange nick, though < 1224284263 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i guess our topic is the movies whether you like to go to the theater or rent them and stay home" -- hah, I wouldn't know how to talk 10 minutes about that. < 1224284277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, as for clc... It is just harder to use still :P < 1224284284 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, obviously < 1224284291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I generally don't watch films at all < 1224284296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the answer is "neither" < 1224284303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, same < 1224284316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have nowhere near the attention span neccessary for a film < 1224284317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1224284328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, as if we didn't know tht < 1224284329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that* < 1224284349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not even long enough for Star Trek? < 1224284366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :star trek is pretty boring most of the time < 1224284373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my opinion < 1224284377 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They all start with "it's my first time doing this" or "have you done this before?" or things like that; it's like reading a transcription of a telephone dating thing. < 1224284383 0 :Fourchan_Partyva!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm watching Star Trek right now < 1224284385 0 :Fourchan_Partyva!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That episode is ridiculous < 1224284389 0 :Fourchan_Partyva!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Slereah_ < 1224284398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how strange still < 1224284405 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Rascals" < 1224284407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Is this freely available? < 1224284410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_, what generation? < 1224284415 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's the plot : a bunch of characters are turned into children! < 1224284416 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TNG < 1224284422 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: No, it's $7000 for non-LDC members. :p < 1224284428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What the fuck. :D < 1224284431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, LDC? < 1224284436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could just torrent it, I'm sure it's somewhere. < 1224284449 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linguistic Data Consortium, University of Pennsylvania. < 1224284452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I will feel absolutely no guilt for downloading the extremely precious HUGE-ASS ARCHIVE OF AWKWARD CONVERSATIONS < 1224284453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also why would anyone pay for that stuff... < 1224284455 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They collect all kinds of speech corpuses. < 1224284458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering how bad it sounds < 1224284470 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's quite a challenging test for a speech recognizer. < 1224284492 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not really recreational reading it's for. < 1224284498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, they fail even on easy stuff... there is no point in trying it on that hard stuff < 1224284521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the OS X one is hilariously bad < 1224284533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is actually one of the better ones I seen so far < 1224284536 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is the default Windows one < 1224284546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well the windows one is worse < 1224284547 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to have fun playing Chinese Whispers with it < 1224284556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Chinese Whispers"? < 1224284603 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For clean speech, I don't think they've got a word error rate percentage of more than a low-single-digit number. And besides, the hard stuff is what's interesting. < 1224284624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm... < 1224284627 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Failure" is what you want out of it. < 1224284630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, still what is that game? < 1224284642 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"They" here refer to state-of-the-art stuff. I don't know anything about the bundled ones. < 1224284645 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: basically, it requires a very large number of people < 1224284651 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first one thinks up a phrase and whispers it to the second < 1224284656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second whispers it to the third < 1224284657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1224284661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and then? < 1224284662 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the last person says it out loud < 1224284665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and at the end, you compare the two phrases < 1224284668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224284671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everyone laughs at how different it is from the original < 1224284672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and see how much got lost in the bad whispering < 1224284685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it will actually be much different? < 1224284690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have enough people, yes < 1224284699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224284700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't work with only a few as they remember what it's supposed to be < 1224284715 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but speech recognisers never catch on, so you can play two-player with them < 1224284718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well if they don't know what it is supposed to be? < 1224284724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's the whole point < 1224284731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't know what it's supposed to be, but you hear something < 1224284734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" it doesn't work with only a few as they remember what it's supposed to be" < 1224284736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, < 1224284736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you try and pass on what you think you heard < 1224284736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ < 1224284737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that < 1224284741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was what I meant < 1224284744 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I mean, if you try to go round more than once < 1224284749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah ok < 1224284752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then people remember what they heard the firs time < 1224284755 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's called "rikkinäinen puhelin" (lit: broken phone) in Finland. < 1224284770 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most successful games are played with about 100 people or so, and yes I have been in a Chinese Whispers game that big < 1224284771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never been much for such games < 1224284790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I was young[er] i used to pass on a completely different phrase. < 1224284797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that at the end everyone asks who the hell messed it up :D < 1224284797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hehe < 1224284810 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that's generally considered cheating < 1224284817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1224284817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1224284818 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in any set of 100 you get a few like that < 1224284822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is impossible to prove who did it < 1224284826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more or less < 1224284827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1224284829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite EASY to < 1224284835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1224284841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not the way we played it, people often asked 2 people back rather than 1 if they suspected the previous person was cheating < 1224284844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a second opinion < 1224284853 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that that's legal either, but you can't really stop it < 1224284859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same way "psychics" can communicate with people back from the dead < 1224284864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just look around < 1224284875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the people who did it will be easy to spot after you do it enough times, i imagine < 1224284889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1224284906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what do "psychics" have to do with it? < 1224284911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are just making it up after all < 1224284934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, they're not < 1224284943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_reading < 1224284946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_reading < 1224284961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you seriously don't believe in such para-normal stuff? < 1224284961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the ones who truly believe they are doing it do that < 1224284964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just dont' realise it < 1224284971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: please click links before saying anything < 1224284979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just made yourself look like a fool... < 1224284983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I did click link after < 1224284992 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I said it before < 1224285000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I have bad lag spikes atm < 1224285043 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lagom lag < 1224285130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, no too much < 1224285132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not lagom < 1224285479 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope the C++ code doesn't have any same sort of bugs that cause fungot to occasionally go to an infinite loop when generating babble. It's computated that thing for a suspiciously long time, compared to how fast it did the first stages. < 1224285479 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://pastebin.ca/ 397959 mathematica is a kickass piece of software < 1224285531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, attach gdb to it, add some trace points? < 1224285541 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh.. what's that paste? < 1224285543 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathematica is okay < 1224285553 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But sometimes, it's hard to handle < 1224285556 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I rather like Mathematica, even though the language is a bit funky. < 1224285568 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I've compiled that thing with debugging symbols, and my gdb-fu is weak. < 1224285570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, H and lots of question marks < 1224285577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1224285577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :H??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? < 1224285577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1224285577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :??????????????????????????????????e????????????????????????????????????????????? < 1224285577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1224285577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? < 1224285585 0 :Corun!n=Corun@94-192-102-5.zone6.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1224285585 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but what's the point of it. < 1224285586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the # are from line numbers < 1224285589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1224285595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, no clue, check origin? < 1224285599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you got the logs < 1224285612 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks somewhat hello-worldy. < 1224285632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well where did it get that quote from? < 1224285644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the pastebin I mean < 1224285657 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Checking, but it seems sort-of cheating not to try figuring it out. < 1224285715 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i vaguely recall that < 1224285732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh? < 1224285752 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it the dupdog hello world maybe < 1224285757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dupdog? < 1224285761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION google < 1224285776 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dupdog, yes. < 1224285786 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The program is in the esolang wiki. < 1224285876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1224285879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks odd < 1224285887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and doesn't fit the desc for the language above < 1224285920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1224285921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1224285966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1224285973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should not be tc as far as I can tell? < 1224285984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since how do you do even a trivial infinite loop? < 1224285995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1224285999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duplicate source < 1224286000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1224286060 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think we ever found out < 1224286066 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1224286131 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Must sleep now, hopefully fungot'll be ready to speak all "um uh [noise] umm" telephone conversation by tomorrow.) < 1224286132 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i'm religious!! i wanta tell you you're a great comedian sgeo < 1224286181 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes I have a feeling fungot's a few bits short of a full byte. < 1224286181 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: in scheme it is executed < 1224286415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well < 1224286415 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1224286417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1224286420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: i'm religious!! i wanta tell you you're a great comedian sgeo < 1224286420 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because they can feel they're on the left margin. < 1224286421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heheh < 1224286454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, what a coincidence you joined just after < 1224286475 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1224286547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun fact - the eso pastebin is about to be up < 1224286550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :putting the final touches on it < 1224286570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night too < 1224286897 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night"