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03:07:08 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | ;).
03:14:34 <GregorR> optbot!
03:14:34 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | there's so much room for experimental error there.
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05:00:08 <immibis> anyone know how to set the storage offset in funge 93?
05:00:35 <lament> is it x y value "p" ?
05:01:19 <immibis> "In Funge-98, each IP has an additional vector property called the storage offset. Initially this vector is the set to the origin. As such, it works to emulate Befunge-93. The arguments to g and p are the same, but instead of pointing to absolute locations in Funge-Space, they reference a cell relative to the storage offset. "
05:01:41 <lament> right
05:01:50 <lament> befunge-93 does not have a storage offset
05:02:06 <lament> so as long as the offset is 0 in funge-98, it works just like befunge-93
05:02:26 <immibis> i meant 98 sorry
05:02:28 <immibis> not 93
05:02:35 <lament> ah, no idea
05:07:38 <Asztal> { can set it, but not to an arbitrary value
05:09:20 <Asztal> (there was also a dynamic fingerprint spec from Jeffrey Lee that allowed setting the haunted IP's storage offset, but I don't think that spec is implemented)
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06:41:33 <fizzie> 0{<y><x>02-u0} sets the storage offset.
06:42:47 <fizzie> Uh, with a $$ afterwards to get rid of the actual storage offset.
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09:07:08 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | *show.
09:13:14 <AnMaster> fizzie, indeed
09:13:21 <AnMaster> Asztal, so easy enough to set
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10:56:00 <oklocod> fyugyof druyoögh
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12:51:37 <oklocod> hi optbot
12:51:37 <optbot> oklocod: really? It looks nice?
12:51:44 <oklocod> yes, it sure does
12:51:47 <oklocod> that's why i like you, optbot
12:51:48 <optbot> oklocod: TinyWM.
12:52:04 <oklocod> well yes, it's pretty tiny
12:52:09 <oklocod> but it's not all about the size, oklocod
12:52:10 <oklocod> ...
12:52:11 <oklocod> optbot
12:52:12 <optbot> oklocod: I like your new website, but the articles are all missing. I remember reading about ESO OS, and now...?
12:52:29 <oklocod> optbot: you must be confusing me with someone else
12:52:30 <optbot> oklocod: Get all the latest offers on chocolate bar accessories!
12:52:40 <oklocod> :|
12:54:47 <GregorR> optbot: How's life?
12:54:48 <optbot> GregorR: And besides...
12:54:56 <GregorR> optbot: Useful response.
12:54:56 <optbot> GregorR: I don't think I should really include the VARG() variations
12:55:08 <GregorR> optbot: You have no intelligence at all, do you?
12:55:09 <optbot> GregorR: i don't think it's bread
12:55:16 <GregorR> Well spoken.
13:01:15 <fizzie> optbot: Your HEAD is full of BREAD.
13:01:16 <optbot> fizzie: (I'd really like to pick up keigo a bit, though. . . That looks interesting, moderately difficult, yet worthwhile)
13:08:45 <oklocod> GregorR: language design job where what tell all that is not secret
13:09:04 <oklocod> hope that made as much sense it was intended to make.
13:09:10 <oklocod> *ass it
13:09:39 <GregorR> If it was intended to make no sense whatsoever, then it did.
13:09:44 <oklocod> :)
13:09:45 <oklocod> well
13:09:55 <oklocod> you're a professional language designer nowadays, huh?
13:10:14 <GregorR> No, I'm a grad student, but that does mean that I'm paid to do language research, yeah.
13:10:39 <oklocod> ah
13:10:39 <oklocod> i see
13:11:00 <oklocod> will you tell more details
13:11:16 <oklocod> like, what are you researching, or just something general you can't put it into words
13:11:16 <GregorR> On ... what?
13:11:45 <GregorR> Oh. Well, I'm a first year first semester, so whatever I fall into, but right now I'm working on a team designing an extensible language
13:11:46 <oklocod> :P
13:12:36 <oklocod> that may be enough to silence my curiosity for now
13:13:13 <GregorR> Well, it's a joint research project with IBM so I may not be able to say more.
13:15:03 <oklocod> i see
13:15:09 <oklocod> it's just i liked plof :-P
13:15:16 <GregorR> Plof is by no means dead.
13:15:32 <oklocod> by that i meant, i'm interested in what you cook up.
13:15:37 <GregorR> Ah.
13:15:55 <GregorR> Well, I'm sure I'll be in here bragging about any publications, but that probably won't happen 'til next year or so :P
13:16:09 <oklocod> hehe :P
13:17:15 <oklocod> btw, if ibm's involved, i'm pretty sure you'd know if you weren't allowed to say anything
13:17:43 <oklocod> and by that i don't mean "come on, tell me more", just general wonderingnessment.
13:18:31 <oklocod> i mean, google made me swear not to tell even though i'm basically just clicking "spam/not spam" buttons for them.
13:59:26 -!- oklocod has changed nick to oklopol.
14:26:20 <psygnisfive> oklopol
14:26:26 <psygnisfive> are you on zbb?????
14:26:53 <oklopol> why do you ask?
14:28:21 <oklopol> optbot
14:28:21 <optbot> oklopol: Strangely the "%d" gets replaced by nothing whatsoever.
14:28:27 <psygnisfive> someone recently started a thread on that "why did you bring that book ..." sentence up
14:28:33 <psygnisfive> s/up// XD
14:28:50 <psygnisfive> ok im off. class. mandarin. :D
14:28:57 <psygnisfive> zajian
14:29:01 <oklopol> that wasn't me, and i haven't seen tha
14:29:03 <oklopol> *that
14:29:12 <oklopol> but i've been randomly browsing zbb
14:29:19 <psygnisfive> ok
14:29:35 <psygnisfive> ill tell you how i think movement parsing should go, just not now
14:29:36 <psygnisfive> kbye
14:29:49 <oklopol> see ya
15:07:08 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | h or H - say "Hello World".
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15:40:27 <Nawak> ?
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16:41:45 <AnMaster> hm idea for another fingerprint: Fungespace Query Language
16:41:45 <AnMaster> :D
16:42:08 <AnMaster> fizzie, Deewiant ^
16:42:23 <GregorR> Slereah_: Why is your ident "jewbutt"?
16:42:55 <AnMaster> also I got a good idea for how to *represent* semaphores in ATHR
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16:43:14 <GregorR> Hm.
16:43:58 <AnMaster> since it uses a library-metaphor for mutexes, just making the library have several copies of the same book in stock
16:44:07 <AnMaster> however implementing this would be complex for me
16:44:27 <AnMaster> in fact I need to write my own lock server then, and that would need to handle distributed stuff
16:44:29 <AnMaster> and so on
16:44:59 <AnMaster> oh another problem: Funge-Space bounds updates
16:49:06 * ehird thinks about natural language parsing
16:49:20 <oklopol> FSQL sounds awesome
16:49:43 <AnMaster> FS? FQL
16:49:46 <ehird> i'm sure i could parse "the karma of the person who said 'indeed'"
16:49:50 <ehird> AnMaster: fungespace
16:49:51 <ehird> =fs
16:49:52 <ehird> hmm
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16:49:58 <asiekierka> BOO!
16:49:59 <ehird> "karma of person who said 'indeed'"
16:50:04 <ehird> -> "karma of (person said "indeed")"
16:50:08 <AnMaster> but yeah it does sound great
16:50:12 <asiekierka> Someone remembers my TaxiBot project?
16:50:21 <AnMaster> you gave it up yes
16:50:24 <asiekierka> No, i'm not going back to work on it
16:50:25 <ehird> -> select ?person, ?karma where { ?person :said "indeed" . ?person :karma ?karma . }
16:50:28 <ehird> surely i could parse that,
16:50:28 <asiekierka> But i planned to make a Taxi-like languagwe
16:50:29 <ehird> :D
16:50:30 <asiekierka> language
16:50:32 <asiekierka> but different
16:50:34 <asiekierka> called Bus
16:50:51 <ehird> i mean
16:50:54 <ehird> karma of (person said "indeed")
16:50:54 <asiekierka> basically, there's a set of buses running different trails (which you set at the beginning of the program), max buses amount is 10.
16:50:56 <ehird> ->
16:51:07 <ehird> v1 = person said "indeed"
16:51:10 <ehird> v2 = karma of person
16:51:11 <ehird> ->
16:51:14 <asiekierka> And you can set commands to a different bus, but you can't move something from one bus to another, you must use a standing point
16:51:14 <oklopol> ehird: why is "person" the referent in (person said "indeed"), and not, say, "indeed"?
16:51:18 <asiekierka> Which there will be, plenty
16:51:19 <ehird> ?person said "indeed"
16:51:22 <ehird> ?karma of ?person
16:51:26 <ehird> ->
16:51:39 <asiekierka> Every bus will be a FIFO stack
16:51:39 <ehird> select ?person, ?karma where { ?person :said "indeed" . ?person :karma ?karma . }
16:51:43 <ehird> oklopol: because "indeed" is a quoted string.
16:51:46 <asiekierka> with a limit of 15
16:51:54 <AnMaster> asiekierka, Fungespace Query Language
16:51:58 <oklopol> ehird: elaborate
16:52:00 <asiekierka> also, ehird, what's the language?
16:52:05 <ehird> oklopol: well, what do you mean
16:52:08 <asiekierka> it's FQL?
16:52:14 <ehird> asiekierka: Trying to parse restricted English into SPARQL.
16:52:18 <oklopol> the person said "indeed", which is a funny word
16:52:25 <ehird> oklopol: and?
16:52:29 <oklopol> (person said "indeed") is a funny word
16:52:38 <AnMaster> ehird, hm did I miss something had you on ignore still there
16:52:38 <ehird> because
16:52:41 <ehird> you say:
16:52:41 <AnMaster> anyway
16:52:47 <AnMaster> it would look like this:
16:52:48 <oklopol> but here, "indeed" is the referent
16:52:50 <ehird> oklopol: the karma of the person who said "indeed"
16:53:00 <ehird> oklopol: phrase it in the other interpretation, i'll tell you how it parses down
16:53:23 <asiekierka> Hmm
16:53:24 <oklopol> phrase what in the other interpretation
16:53:36 <ehird> oklopol: the "karma of indeed" thing
16:53:37 <ehird> :P
16:53:39 <asiekierka> I wonder whether should i make an ircREGbotXY
16:53:43 <ehird> phrase it in the full english
16:53:43 <ehird> like my
16:53:47 <ehird> the karma of the person who said "indeD"
16:53:49 <AnMaster> "X > 2 & X < 5 & (Y > 5 | Y < 3)"
16:53:53 <AnMaster> 0"X > 2 & X < 5 & (Y > 5 | Y < 3)"S
16:53:54 <AnMaster> even
16:54:03 <AnMaster> though it would actually be reversed
16:54:06 <oklopol> the karma of the "indeed" said by a person
16:54:09 <AnMaster> since it would be a 0"gnirts"
16:54:37 <AnMaster> actually no
16:54:41 <ehird> oklopol: -> karma of ("indeed" said by person)
16:54:42 <AnMaster> it should use prefix notation
16:55:18 <oklopol> ehird: so the *position* inside the parens was what made "person" the referent
16:55:20 <AnMaster> 0"(& (> X 2) (< X 5) (| (> Y 5) (< Y 3)))"S
16:55:26 <ehird> oklopol: uhh, yeah...
16:55:37 <AnMaster> but again reversed of course
16:55:43 <oklopol> nevertheless, i have no idea what you're talking about :P
16:55:56 <AnMaster> anyone: what do you think?
16:56:09 <ehird> oklopol: i'm trying to make it so that you'll be able to:
16:56:14 <ehird> botte, what is the karma of the person who said "indeed"?
16:56:19 <ehird> and it'll reply like
16:56:21 <asiekierka> Hey, is REGXY a good esolang?
16:56:24 <oklopol> ah.
16:56:26 <ehird> <botte> person=ehird, karma=-454
16:56:30 <ehird> <botte> person=oklopol, karma=3478234234
16:56:30 <AnMaster> 0"(& (> X 2) (< X 5) (| (> Y 5) (< Y 3)))"S to return a list of (top of stack first) Count,X,Y,Value,X,Y,Value
16:56:36 <ehird> <botte> person=botte, karma=STACK OVERFLOW
16:56:45 <AnMaster> so total cell count 3 * Count + 1 (for count itself)
16:56:50 <AnMaster> assuming befunge
16:56:50 <ehird> oklopol: "said", here, refers to a complete line, actually
16:56:55 <asiekierka> what about my karma
16:57:03 <AnMaster> ah wait, that wouldn't work for more than trefunge
16:57:08 <AnMaster> since Z...
16:57:09 <ehird> asiekierka: So low it overflow. :P
16:57:09 <AnMaster> so
16:57:11 <ehird> That rhymes.
16:57:26 <oklopol> what is the karma of the person for whom it's true that e happened to say "indeed" at some point
16:57:31 <asiekierka> So low it overflows, for the good of water flows.
16:57:42 <AnMaster> X=$1 Y=$2 Z=$3 and so on
16:57:46 <asiekierka> Uh... That didn't make any sense, but it RHYMES!
16:57:48 <asiekierka> Oh wait
16:57:50 <asiekierka> a Rhyme esolang!
16:57:59 <asiekierka> or not
16:58:00 <asiekierka> no, not
16:58:25 <oklopol> rhymesssss!
16:58:38 <asiekierka> One problem with REGXY
16:58:40 <asiekierka> there's no I/O
16:59:10 <asiekierka> Except if we modify either regular expressions or add a command.
16:59:22 <ehird> <oklopol> what is the karma of the person for whom it's true that e happened to say "indeed" at some point
16:59:27 <ehird> at this point botte says "go fuck yourself".
17:00:30 <oklopol> why? is it liek stuppid
17:00:42 <oklopol> my INTERNET IS NOT working :<
17:00:50 <ehird> oklopol: you could just say "what's the karma of the person who said 'indeed'"
17:00:51 <ehird> :P
17:01:20 <asiekierka> RWLR -> RLWR... Read Left, Write Right... hmm...
17:02:30 <asiekierka> An useless language. ^ - input a char, put it in the current cell, and move left. If you're at 0, move to the end of the cell memory. AND v - Write the current cell, and move right. If you're at the end of the cell memory, move to 0. THIS IS USELESS!!!
17:02:45 <asiekierka> ^vv - a simple CAT one char program
17:02:48 <asiekierka> Basically
17:02:51 <asiekierka> You say "a"
17:02:59 <asiekierka> and it outputs \0 a
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17:03:20 <asiekierka> s/Write/Output
17:03:30 <oklopol> asiekierka: yeah sounds pretty useless
17:03:30 <ehird> oklopol: here is my current stoopid parser thingy
17:03:31 <ehird> parser = (
17:03:31 <ehird>     ('the ?', lambda x: x),
17:03:31 <ehird>     ('? of ?', lambda x, y: Of(x, y)),
17:03:31 <ehird> )
17:04:20 <AnMaster> ehird, nice
17:04:22 <GregorR> Aggg no terminals.
17:04:47 <M0ny> plop
17:04:59 <oklopol> ehird: "? of ?" is pretty useful :P
17:05:05 <ehird> oklopol: whaddya mean :-p
17:05:08 <oklopol> a of b and c of d
17:05:11 <AnMaster> ehird, hm what happened to ais523? Got any idea why the bouncer isn't connected?
17:05:16 <oklopol> O(a, b and c of d)
17:05:18 <oklopol> *Of
17:05:31 <ehird> AnMaster: FOR FUCKS SAKE AIS523 IS NOT YOUR PERSONAL IRC-BUDDY
17:05:37 <asiekierka> ^show
17:05:37 <fungot> echo reverb rev bf rot13 hi rev2 fib wc ul ctcp oko cho choo
17:05:38 <ehird> IF THE BOUNCER ISN'T CONNECTED THAT'S BECAUSE HE'S DOING SOMETHING ELSE, OKAY?
17:05:40 <asiekierka> Uh
17:05:44 <ehird> jeeeez
17:05:45 <asiekierka> What's CTCP, OKO, CHO and CHOO
17:05:47 <asiekierka> ^show ctcp
17:05:47 <fungot> +.,[.,]+.
17:05:49 <ehird> oklopol: what about it
17:05:50 <AnMaster> ehird, when did I claim he was?
17:05:52 <oklopol> indeed, ais is mine
17:05:52 <asiekierka> ^show oko
17:05:52 <fungot> >,[>,]<[<]>[>[.>]<[<]>]
17:05:54 <asiekierka> ^show cho
17:05:54 <fungot> >,[>,]<[<]>[[.>]<[<]>[-]>]
17:05:55 <asiekierka> ^show choo
17:05:55 <fungot> >,[>,]+32[<]>[[.>]<[<]>[-]>]
17:06:00 <asiekierka> ^cho wtf?
17:06:00 <fungot> wtf?tf?f??
17:06:00 <oklopol> MINE
17:06:02 <asiekierka> ^choo wtf?
17:06:03 <fungot> wtf? tf? f? ?
17:06:06 <ehird> AnMaster: When you implied that ais523 doing something than being on irc is a total anomaly.
17:06:10 <oklopol> choo choo choo
17:06:13 <asiekierka> ^ctcp choo
17:06:25 <ehird> oklopol: 'a of b and c of d' would be:
17:06:31 <asiekierka> ^ctcp I SEE NEW COMMANDS WERE ADDED.
17:06:32 <AnMaster> ehird, usually the bouncer is still connected. But that wasn't the case
17:06:39 <ehird> oklopol: And(Of(a,b), Of(c,d))
17:06:48 <asiekierka> ^ctcp rocks ... I SEE NEW COMMANDS WERE ADDED.
17:06:50 <oklopol> ehird: and why exactly would it be that?
17:06:51 <ehird> AnMaster: because he /parted here when psygnisfive was talking about sex.
17:06:53 <asiekierka> ^oko lol
17:06:53 <fungot> olololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololololo ...
17:06:55 <ehird> oklopol: why wouldn't it be?
17:07:00 <asiekierka> ^oko asiekierka
17:07:00 <fungot> siekierkasiekierkasiekierkasiekierkasiekierkasiekierkasiekierkasiekierkasiekierkasiekierkasiekierkasiekierkasiekierkasiekierkasiekierkasiekierkasiekierkasiekierkasiekierkasiekierkasiekierkasiekierkasiekierka ...
17:07:01 <AnMaster> ehird, ah
17:07:28 <oklopol> ehird: because it could just as well be
17:07:36 <ehird> oklopol: could just as well be what
17:07:38 <oklopol> Of(a, And(b, Of(c, d)))
17:07:44 <ehird> yes
17:07:46 <ehird> it could
17:07:51 <asiekierka> I'm working on a esolang
17:07:55 <ehird> oklopol: that's why there's precedence
17:08:02 <fizzie> Oh, I added cho and choo (they used to be called echochohoo and echo_cho_ho_o) back today.
17:08:07 <oklopol> precedance
17:08:23 <oklopol> ^cho cho
17:08:23 <fungot> chohoo
17:08:26 <ehird> oklopol: stuff higher up the parser list gets chosen first.
17:08:28 <oklopol> ^choo choo
17:08:28 <fungot> choo hoo oo o
17:08:39 <AnMaster> fizzie, hm ATHR will have issues for y, basically the bounds will be async updated.
17:08:50 <oklopol> ehird: err what?
17:08:56 <ehird> oklopol: what
17:09:08 <oklopol> "higher up the parser list"
17:09:12 <oklopol> i don't know what that means
17:09:14 <fizzie> AnMaster: Well, I personally don't really care much what 'y' says.
17:09:15 <ehird> oklopol:
17:09:16 <ehird> parser = (
17:09:16 <ehird>     ('the ?', lambda x: x),
17:09:16 <ehird>     ('? and ?', And),
17:09:16 <ehird>     ('? of ?', Of),
17:09:18 <ehird> )
17:09:21 <oklopol> ah
17:09:22 <ehird> stuff coming first gets changed first.
17:09:25 <oklopol> that parser list.
17:09:25 <ehird> *chosen
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17:09:36 <asiekierka> A cat program looks like:
17:09:37 <asiekierka> _
17:09:43 <asiekierka> $
17:09:52 <asiekierka> there's a space between _ and $ though
17:09:59 <asiekierka> And it's bit-based
17:10:26 <AnMaster> fizzie, well issue is that you have to select at command line if you want ATHR support, there is no way to not make this utterly slow or async, And since async when ATHR isn't loaded would mess up with mycology... Well.
17:10:45 <ehird> AnMaster: s/well issue/the issue/
17:10:57 <AnMaster> ehird, "well," too
17:11:03 <ehird> yes
17:11:05 <ehird> well, the issue
17:11:09 <AnMaster> indeed
17:11:15 <oklopol> s/to not/not to/
17:11:20 <oklopol> s/issue/tissue/
17:11:29 <AnMaster> fizzie, also I got an idea for semaphores: The library may have more than one copy of some books in stock.
17:11:30 <ehird> s/the/mother/
17:11:34 <ehird> AnMaster: s/got/have/
17:11:43 <AnMaster> ehird, ok...
17:11:57 <oklopol> actually that could be a literal "got"
17:11:57 <asiekierka> It has control flow by... walls. Somehow
17:12:08 <oklopol> say you got the idea yesterday or something
17:12:30 <AnMaster> asiekierka, a 2D language where the IP reflects according to the law of physics?
17:12:47 <AnMaster> you need some way to make it have a non-trivial speed, direction and so on
17:12:50 <ehird> oklopol: 'i thought of an idea'
17:13:06 <asiekierka> http://rafb.net/p/5F9sTk22.html
17:13:08 <oklopol> "befunge on reals", does that sound enough like "ruby on rails" to be a pun?
17:13:15 <asiekierka> Dots = Bits
17:13:15 <oklopol> i guess it doesn't
17:13:15 <asiekierka> :)
17:13:21 <AnMaster> asiekierka, and all cells it intersects with on the way... Well those it will execute the instruction in
17:13:35 <AnMaster> even if that isn't what you thought it is a nice idea
17:13:42 <asiekierka> What
17:13:48 <asiekierka> the thing i linked to on rafb?
17:14:11 <asiekierka> DOBELA - DOt-Based Esoteric LAnguage, a proposed name
17:14:13 <oklopol> ehird: "got" is fine, your mother and your face
17:14:20 <AnMaster> asiekierka, oh naming something cat is a bad idea, since that is the tool used dump files to the terminal on *nix. Like type in cmd.exe (if you use windows)
17:14:37 <asiekierka> i didn't name anything "cat"
17:14:41 <AnMaster> <asiekierka> A cat program looks like:
17:14:42 <AnMaster> yes you did
17:14:47 <asiekierka> well
17:14:48 <ehird> AnMaster: ... idiot
17:14:50 <oklopol> ...
17:14:50 <asiekierka> but it works like CAT
17:14:56 <ehird> he implemented cat in that language
17:15:01 <AnMaster> ehird, ah
17:15:02 <AnMaster> right
17:15:05 <AnMaster> I misread it then
17:15:08 * ehird rolls eyes.
17:15:14 <asiekierka> The example in rafb is a oversized version of "cat", just to show all of it's features :)
17:15:16 <oklopol> AnMaster: pretty common esolang terminology
17:15:17 <asiekierka> i mean
17:15:21 <asiekierka> esolang's features
17:15:25 <ehird> oklopol: yeah
17:15:27 <asiekierka> Something to add?
17:15:35 <oklopol> i knew what a cat program was before knowing the util
17:15:50 <asiekierka> And dots rotate when HITTING a wall, of course.
17:15:58 <asiekierka> And my language calls bits "dots". Huh, weird.
17:16:08 <asiekierka> Though they do look like dots, but that's another problem
17:16:11 <AnMaster> asiekierka, I think you need mirrors
17:16:14 <AnMaster> rather than walls
17:16:18 <AnMaster> \ and /
17:16:21 <asiekierka> They're mirrors actually
17:16:25 <AnMaster> as well as _ and |
17:16:27 <asiekierka> But they move based on the dot
17:16:33 <AnMaster> asiekierka, well "90 degrees" hm :/
17:16:34 <asiekierka> Also, it's not meant to be ADVANCED
17:16:44 <AnMaster> asiekierka, what if dots collide?
17:17:06 <asiekierka> Uh... Well, thanks for telling me that, i think they start moving in a reverse direction
17:17:27 <AnMaster> asiekierka, I think 0 and 1 colliding should destroy each other
17:17:34 <AnMaster> like the particle and the anti-particle
17:17:36 <asiekierka> Right
17:17:46 <AnMaster> asiekierka, 1 and 1 or 0 and 0 I'm not sure about
17:18:03 <AnMaster> so maybe you want to follow electromagnetic rules?
17:18:12 <AnMaster> so 1 and 1 attach to each other creating a wall?
17:18:22 <AnMaster> and 0 and 1 reflects
17:18:32 <asiekierka> 0 and 1 colliding will destroy each other
17:18:33 <AnMaster> 0 and 0 would also create a wall that way
17:18:36 <asiekierka> Yeah
17:18:37 <AnMaster> hm ok
17:18:42 <asiekierka> but where should it be placed then?>
17:18:46 <asiekierka> at the left side
17:18:46 <AnMaster> asiekierka, no doesn't work if they destroy each other
17:18:48 <asiekierka> the right side
17:18:52 <asiekierka> Reflects, as in
17:18:56 <AnMaster> asiekierka, or below/above?
17:19:02 <asiekierka> they move in reverse directions?
17:19:05 <AnMaster> depending on how
17:19:06 <AnMaster> hm
17:19:17 <AnMaster> asiekierka, no I think the wall should be between those cells :D
17:19:29 <asiekierka> But if they collide ,.
17:19:31 <asiekierka> and not , .
17:19:53 <asiekierka> Because it'll be like: ,   . | , .  OR ,  . |  ,.
17:20:00 <asiekierka> So we must handle BOTH exceptions
17:20:18 <AnMaster> asiekierka, also those the wall need a charge. So if you have a 2x0 and it it with an 1 you get a 0 particle going in the opposite direction of the 1
17:20:20 <AnMaster> :D
17:20:34 <AnMaster> say you have:
17:20:43 <asiekierka> This is getting... CONFUSING!
17:20:45 <AnMaster> ->    .          .    <-
17:20:46 <AnMaster> then
17:20:51 <AnMaster> ->     .         .    <-
17:20:52 <AnMaster> err
17:20:57 <asiekierka> Just speed it up
17:20:57 <AnMaster> when they hit
17:20:58 <asiekierka> shall we?
17:21:03 <asiekierka> yes
17:21:04 <ehird> oklopol: /msg
17:21:04 <AnMaster> ->     ..    <-
17:21:08 <AnMaster> ->     **    <-
17:21:08 <asiekierka> then
17:21:12 <asiekierka> Mhm
17:21:12 <AnMaster> ->      |    <-
17:21:13 <AnMaster> but
17:21:15 <AnMaster> it should
17:21:18 <AnMaster> be between
17:21:19 <AnMaster> those *
17:21:24 <asiekierka> Ok
17:21:32 <asiekierka> So if they collide . . it's created inbetween
17:21:35 <AnMaster> asiekierka, not in either cell, just between
17:21:42 <asiekierka> , , is the same
17:21:48 <asiekierka> ,, creates something like "| "
17:21:52 <asiekierka> and .. does " |"
17:21:53 <AnMaster> asiekierka, no
17:21:54 <AnMaster> ..
17:21:55 <asiekierka> | is a wall
17:21:55 <AnMaster> creates
17:21:57 <AnMaster> a wall
17:22:00 <AnMaster> between those dots
17:22:01 <asiekierka> WHERE?
17:22:03 <asiekierka> there's no BETWEEN
17:22:06 <asiekierka> these dots
17:22:14 <asiekierka> 1 char = 1 thing to be in it
17:22:17 <AnMaster> asiekierka, you are using integer coordinates?
17:22:18 <asiekierka> not 1 char = half a thing to be in it
17:22:26 <asiekierka> It all happens on the same ascii map
17:22:27 <AnMaster> blergh
17:22:31 <asiekierka> So they must move just like in ASCII
17:22:32 <asiekierka> :)
17:22:45 <AnMaster> ok anyway this made me get an idea for another language
17:22:54 <asiekierka> Ok
17:22:56 <AnMaster> basically your instruction pointer is a photon
17:22:59 <asiekierka> I'm getting my own behavior then
17:23:01 <AnMaster> that enters the box
17:23:17 <AnMaster> it will bounce on all walls as if they were mirrors
17:23:31 <AnMaster> however
17:23:40 <AnMaster> the space is filled with some instructions
17:23:52 <AnMaster> so each instruction that it illuminates,,, is executed
17:24:12 <AnMaster> it will allow non-trivial angles for bouncing
17:24:23 <AnMaster> so it needs a proper intersection test
17:24:31 <AnMaster> asiekierka, what do you think of this idea?
17:24:44 <asiekierka> neat
17:24:50 <asiekierka> but i didn't have physics at school YET
17:25:00 <asiekierka> nor i wouldn't have for another year
17:25:01 <asiekierka> or so
17:25:01 <asiekierka> but
17:25:12 <asiekierka> http://rafb.net/p/GKrMDk84.html - DOBILA (sorry for the misspell) docs v.2
17:25:17 <AnMaster> asiekierka, the input angle to the normal is the same as the output angle, except at the opposite side
17:25:40 <AnMaster> like:
17:25:40 <AnMaster> \    /
17:25:40 <AnMaster>  \  /
17:25:40 <AnMaster>   \/
17:25:40 <AnMaster> ------
17:25:54 <asiekierka> So i added an instruction, EXCEPTIONS and the uncommented example
17:26:05 <asiekierka> To see how it'd look like in a normal text file
17:26:13 <asiekierka> Oh, and any other chars are ignored, treated like space.
17:26:28 <AnMaster> asiekierka, there is an alignment error in your paste
17:26:35 <AnMaster> for the uncommented example
17:26:37 <asiekierka> W/where?
17:26:40 <asiekierka> Oh
17:26:41 <asiekierka> i see
17:26:42 <asiekierka> thx
17:26:48 <asiekierka> Any other fixes?
17:26:49 <asiekierka> or ideas?
17:27:00 <AnMaster> "$ - Takes up dots. When it gets 8 of dots, it outputs chars based on them, in FIFO."
17:27:08 <AnMaster> this implies each $ is separate
17:27:15 <AnMaster> have it's own fifo
17:27:22 <AnMaster> but then the example isn't cat
17:27:25 <asiekierka> Oh
17:27:38 <AnMaster> asiekierka, also in the commented example you got a timing issue
17:27:48 <AnMaster> the 1 and 0 wouldn't reach their $ at the same time
17:27:55 <AnMaster> since the path is longer for 1
17:29:14 <asiekierka> The only example i wouldn't "explain", and leave it for the interpreters, is that how _ outputs dots
17:29:18 <asiekierka> but
17:29:20 <asiekierka> Feel free
17:29:22 <asiekierka> oh wait
17:29:23 <AnMaster> asiekierka, another idea: have = accelerate the dots to double its current speed if particle enter horizontally, and have it decelerate to half the speed if the dots enter vertically
17:29:23 <asiekierka> wrong paste
17:29:36 <asiekierka> Also
17:29:40 <asiekierka> 6 commands is enough
17:29:41 <asiekierka> http://rafb.net/p/4h4AbP70.html
17:29:51 <AnMaster> asiekierka, how do you do flow control?
17:29:53 <asiekierka> How is it NOW
17:30:03 <AnMaster> asiekierka, since that is trivially non-turing complete
17:30:08 <asiekierka> How to make it TC then
17:30:27 <AnMaster> well you need 1) flow control and 2) storage I think
17:30:33 <asiekierka> Storage is the dots
17:30:48 <AnMaster> asiekierka, how can you store one in a "variable" to retrieve it later?
17:30:49 <asiekierka> You store them while they move
17:31:05 <asiekierka> I could make a command to retrieve a dot from the FIFO
17:31:18 <AnMaster> wouldn't help as the fifo is limited in size
17:31:48 <asiekierka> Argh!
17:31:53 <AnMaster> asiekierka, anyway all you can do with # is to sort dots.
17:31:59 <asiekierka> Well
17:32:00 <asiekierka> i have an idea
17:32:53 <asiekierka> Argh
17:32:55 <AnMaster> asiekierka, ideas that may help: 1) something to flip a 0 to a 1 and vice versa. 2) have some sort of wall that when it is hit from one direction changes the way 0 and 1 reflects (for left/right)
17:32:55 <asiekierka> No, it fails
17:32:58 <AnMaster> I think those could help
17:33:05 <AnMaster> for flow control
17:33:09 <asiekierka> 1) would be enough i think
17:33:09 <AnMaster> not for memory
17:33:22 <asiekierka> Since you can flip once
17:33:27 <asiekierka> And then flip just at the output time
17:33:44 <AnMaster> asiekierka, also for .. note they only destroy each other if traveling in opposite directions
17:33:46 <AnMaster> so they collide
17:33:58 <AnMaster> or you can't have two directly after each other traveling same way
17:34:03 <AnMaster> or one traveling up and the other down
17:34:18 <asiekierka> You have infinite space.
17:34:23 <AnMaster> asiekierka, yes and?
17:34:26 <asiekierka> And i'm removing "_". Its behavior was too confusing.
17:34:32 <AnMaster> you could get input really fast
17:34:42 <asiekierka> Yes, but it's behavior wasn't defined
17:34:46 <asiekierka> So
17:34:51 <asiekierka> What command should i remove
17:34:54 <asiekierka> from # , . $ " _
17:34:58 <asiekierka> Or none, even
17:35:55 <asiekierka> Hm?
17:35:56 <asiekierka> Well
17:35:59 <asiekierka> # , . can't be removed
17:36:01 <AnMaster> asiekierka, anyway you need something so that one 1 or 0 can affect another one, like  | if hit from above then it will make everything that hits it horizontally go down, if it is hit from below it will everything that hits it horizontally go up
17:36:04 <AnMaster> that could be useful
17:36:08 <asiekierka> Uh
17:36:18 <AnMaster> to allow a loop that you could retrieve data from
17:37:05 <asiekierka> Also, transporters
17:37:10 <AnMaster> eh why?
17:37:17 <AnMaster> you can have flows that cross
17:37:24 <asiekierka> Yes
17:37:27 <asiekierka> But it allows you
17:37:28 <asiekierka> when hit
17:37:33 <asiekierka> to when another dot hits it
17:37:41 <asiekierka> to be transported to the other transporter
17:37:49 <asiekierka> Otherwise, it's ignored, except if \ hit from south
17:37:51 <asiekierka> and / hit from north
17:38:08 <AnMaster> well, I leave it up to you to make it TC :)
17:38:10 <asiekierka> So you can break loops.
17:38:14 <asiekierka> :)
17:38:22 <asiekierka> But you can only have 2 transporters
17:38:23 <asiekierka> :/
17:38:23 <AnMaster> asiekierka, the | I suggested would be able to create a loop
17:38:58 <asiekierka> Ok
17:39:02 <asiekierka> I'm at 7 commands now
17:39:06 <asiekierka> Not fixing the storage
17:39:09 <asiekierka> now*
17:39:18 <AnMaster> asiekierka, I think infinite space could work for that
17:39:28 <AnMaster> assuming the infinite space wraps around
17:39:48 <asiekierka> Ok
17:39:54 <AnMaster> wait no
17:39:58 <asiekierka> at 7 commands, publishing.
17:40:09 <AnMaster> but anyway, you could use a group of walls to create a storage loop for tos
17:40:11 <AnMaster> dots*
17:40:15 <asiekierka> http://rafb.net/p/MXSZBt60.html
17:40:16 <AnMaster> together with |
17:40:17 <asiekierka> Here you go
17:40:18 <asiekierka> Fixed storage
17:40:22 <asiekierka> and i wonder if it's TC now
17:40:26 <asiekierka> Oh
17:40:37 <asiekierka> When ^ is hit west or east - behavior left!
17:40:45 <AnMaster> asiekierka, How would you generate a dot?
17:40:58 <AnMaster> as in infinite flow of them
17:41:01 <asiekierka> Oh
17:41:06 <asiekierka> an infinite flow of dots
17:41:13 <asiekierka> I also have an idea how to make ^ more useful
17:41:30 <AnMaster> asiekierka, also you removed _ but it is still in the example
17:41:31 <AnMaster> hm
17:41:42 <asiekierka> oh, wait
17:41:46 <asiekierka> i removed _? Sorry
17:41:54 <AnMaster> seems you did
17:42:02 <asiekierka> I wasn't meant to do that!
17:42:27 <AnMaster> asiekierka, anyway two dots that are next to each other shouldn't cause a collision unless their paths are intersecting
17:42:52 <AnMaster> asiekierka, as for "The infinite space wraps around." I don't think that actually works
17:43:01 <AnMaster> it wouldn't be implementable for dots for a start
17:43:11 <asiekierka> http://rafb.net/p/ApA5d942.html
17:43:16 <asiekierka> Hm.
17:43:18 <asiekierka> v6.
17:43:19 <asiekierka> Test THIS
17:43:29 <asiekierka> ^ can stop/start the ones/zeros generators
17:43:42 <AnMaster> asiekierka, you only need one of ; and :
17:43:42 <asiekierka> I'm at 10 commands so far
17:43:45 <asiekierka> Oh
17:43:49 <AnMaster> since you could use = to convert them
17:43:53 <asiekierka> Right
17:44:06 <asiekierka> I could also make it a different way
17:44:12 <AnMaster> asiekierka, also does = make the dots pass through it ?
17:44:17 <asiekierka> It's like
17:44:25 <asiekierka> ",= " " =."
17:44:29 <AnMaster> right
17:44:34 <asiekierka> And north/south works the same
17:44:39 -!- ais523 has joined.
17:44:39 <asiekierka> So do south/north and east/westy
17:44:40 <ehird> hi ais523
17:44:41 <AnMaster> ais523, hi
17:44:43 <asiekierka> east/west*
17:44:44 <asiekierka> hi ais523
17:44:50 <asiekierka> We're projecting my esolang idea
17:44:55 <asiekierka> http://rafb.net/p/ApA5d942.html - so you can catch on
17:45:15 <AnMaster> asiekierka, well I'm far from sure if that is tc or not any longer at least
17:45:21 -!- sebbu has joined.
17:45:31 <AnMaster> I bet ais523 could help you better
17:45:39 <asiekierka> Ok
17:45:45 <asiekierka> lemme just finish up :/;
17:46:40 <asiekierka> http://rafb.net/p/RIRUvV41.html
17:46:42 <asiekierka>  v6.5
17:46:52 <ais523> what's the question?
17:46:57 <asiekierka> Is this language TC
17:47:08 <asiekierka> also, in |, i meant Dots, when hitting | north/south, are destroyed.
17:47:10 <asiekierka> Right.
17:47:15 <asiekierka> Is this language TC
17:47:18 <asiekierka> if not, what does it lack
17:47:47 <AnMaster> The least point and greatest point as reported by y may also be asynchronously
17:47:47 <AnMaster> updated. This may be true even if no threads have been created. If that is the
17:47:47 <AnMaster> case, the implementation should offer a command line option for supporting ATHR
17:47:47 <AnMaster> (async updates), and a sync update mode (using ATHR results in undefined
17:47:47 <AnMaster> behaviour).
17:47:51 <AnMaster> ais523, ^ :/
17:48:02 <AnMaster> that is the only way I can resolve that issue in
17:48:49 <ais523> asiekierka: how do you plan to do infinite storage?
17:48:57 <asiekierka> The FIFO.
17:49:03 <ais523> as far as I can see, the FIFO holds infinite data
17:49:03 <asiekierka> Oh wait
17:49:07 <ais523> but there's no way to find out what it is
17:49:08 <asiekierka> yes
17:49:10 <ais523> apart from telling the user
17:49:23 <asiekierka> Oh wait
17:49:24 <asiekierka> rright
17:49:28 <asiekierka> You're right
17:49:34 <asiekierka> you can't output from the FIFO without I/O... yet
17:50:11 <AnMaster> everything else worked fine so far, but this is really a blocker for me, how to update bounds for funge space so it works for other stuff.
17:50:14 <AnMaster> sigh
17:50:18 <AnMaster> ais523, Any great idea?
17:50:34 <ais523> AnMaster: I'm currently trying to process demands from 5 people at once
17:50:39 <ais523> and catch up on about 120 emails
17:50:46 <AnMaster> async works fine, but will change stuff even if ATHR isn't loaded
17:50:49 <AnMaster> and that isn't acceptable
17:51:10 <asiekierka> http://rafb.net/p/mQHMAN57.html
17:51:14 <asiekierka> v7.42 :)
17:51:41 <ais523> AnMaster: least and greatest point on y is a very non-Befungy thing for me
17:51:49 <ais523> to me, Fungespace is conceptually infinite
17:51:57 <asiekierka> hm? and?
17:51:57 <AnMaster> ais523, yet they are in the core spec, mycology tests it.
17:51:58 <AnMaster> and so on
17:52:01 <asiekierka> Is the new version good
17:52:09 <ais523> the fact that practically it's finite and dynamically updated is not really relevant
17:52:21 <asiekierka> ais523: Is DOBELA TC now?
17:52:21 <Deewiant> ais523: it's so that you can use o to dump the non-empty part of funge-space
17:52:22 <ais523> even the Funge-98 spec says that space needn't be dynamically updated, although it usually is
17:52:32 <asiekierka> Also
17:52:45 <asiekierka> in ZERO/ONE dots, i meant rotates instead of moves
17:53:24 <ais523> asiekierka: my answer now is probably, but I'd have to give it more thought
17:53:31 <ais523> it seems reasonable that you could use the FIFO as a Minsky machine
17:53:45 <ais523> and use a different part of your playfield as a finite-state machine to control it
17:53:53 <asiekierka> but?
17:53:55 <ais523> but I'd have to implement it to be sure
17:54:01 <asiekierka> Good luck. :P
17:54:07 <asiekierka> First, we need an interpreter
17:54:15 <asiekierka> But i don't know programming THIS WELL to make one
17:54:15 <AnMaster> asiekierka, you code one yes
17:54:29 * asiekierka dies
17:54:44 <AnMaster> why?
17:55:02 <asiekierka> Newscaster: IMPORTANT NEWS! Asiekierka died from a heart attack after reading that he codes his interpreter, but he doesn't know dynamic programming! Causer yet unknown.
17:55:17 <asiekierka> I don't know dynamic variables very well
17:55:22 <asiekierka> I need an array of a dynamic size
17:55:26 <AnMaster> Deewiant, still I assume you think async updated bounds in y is a bad thing when ATHR isn't loaded?
17:55:36 <asiekierka> Each dot holding an X/Y register, and the rotation counter
17:55:40 <asiekierka> And move them in this direction
17:55:46 <asiekierka> And have an ASCII map
17:55:55 <AnMaster> actually it is a bad thing anyway... hm
17:55:56 <asiekierka> With the generators, it could possibly PWN your memory.
17:56:02 <AnMaster> since it is used for wrapping
17:56:03 <asiekierka> Since you could just put an :
17:56:05 <asiekierka> and PWNED.
17:56:19 <asiekierka> So no, i don't know how to make one
17:56:22 <asiekierka> So, no
17:56:22 <Deewiant> AnMaster: well, yeah, of course. Something giving wrong results unpredictably is generally not a good thing :-P
17:56:39 <AnMaster> Deewiant, apart from bounds everything worked well so far
17:56:49 * AnMaster needs to consider bounds some more
17:56:53 <Deewiant> AnMaster: so you've been lucky :-P
17:56:57 <asiekierka> So, anyone willing?
17:57:09 <Deewiant> unless you can prove it never happens, your program is incorrect
17:57:14 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well pretty well, usual amount of typo bugs and such of course.
17:57:22 <AnMaster> anyway I could make it sync and slower
17:58:02 <AnMaster> asiekierka, you code it
17:58:04 <asiekierka> http://rafb.net/p/lVf6BV28.html
17:58:05 <AnMaster> I said already
17:58:09 <asiekierka> But i don't know HOW to code it
17:58:10 <asiekierka> :/
17:58:16 <AnMaster> asiekierka, SOL then
17:58:20 <asiekierka> SOL?
17:58:26 <AnMaster> S*** out of luck
17:59:09 <AnMaster> asiekierka, and you want either a hash array or a tree structure
17:59:09 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
17:59:48 <AnMaster> and of course : could fill memory
18:00:23 -!- asiekierka has joined.
18:00:28 <AnMaster> Deewiant, some sort of compare and exchange would work for bounds, except that is non-trivial in erlang
18:00:34 <AnMaster> asiekierka: <AnMaster> asiekierka, and you want either a hash array or a tree structure <AnMaster> and of course : could fill memory
18:00:40 <AnMaster> : filling memory is a user fault
18:00:58 <AnMaster> You'd want some way to discard bits if you don't already have it
18:01:00 <asiekierka> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/DOBELA - Working on the Wiki thread
18:01:06 <asiekierka> I do
18:01:10 <asiekierka> sending them to v
18:01:19 <AnMaster> asiekierka, and you want to rate limit : to every other cell
18:01:32 <AnMaster> asiekierka, what if you want to destroy without outputting to fifo?
18:01:41 <AnMaster> from*
18:01:46 <asiekierka> Ahem
18:01:46 <AnMaster> ah wait
18:01:48 <asiekierka> v: When hit south, destroys the dot.
18:01:53 <AnMaster> right
18:02:03 <asiekierka> :)
18:02:36 <AnMaster> Deewiant, ais523: Another idea I had for another fingerprint: Fungespace Query Language
18:02:41 <asiekierka> So?
18:03:40 <AnMaster> "(& (> $1 2) (< $1 5) (| (> $2 5) (< $2 3)))" Using $1 and $2 instead of x/y for reasons for n-funge for n > 3
18:04:02 <AnMaster> also the value v would mean "value of cell is"
18:04:11 <AnMaster> like (= v 4)
18:04:43 <AnMaster> return a list of (top of stack first) Count,X,Y,...,Value,X,Y,...,Value
18:04:51 <AnMaster> where ... are any more dimensions needed
18:04:54 <AnMaster> wait
18:04:55 <AnMaster> wrong
18:05:07 <AnMaster> Count,...Y,X,Value,...Y,X,Value
18:07:35 <AnMaster> Hm, I wonder how insanely slow using a full blown database for fungespace would be
18:09:09 <asiekierka> What are the categories DOBELA could be assigned to?
18:09:15 <asiekierka> oh wait
18:09:16 <asiekierka> i found a list
18:10:27 <asiekierka> Stack-based, Unknown computational class, Two-dimensional languages, Unimplemented...
18:10:29 <asiekierka> Anything else?
18:10:38 <AnMaster> stack-based?
18:10:45 <asiekierka> Or queue-based?
18:10:48 <AnMaster> not sure about that
18:10:48 <asiekierka> I'm not sure
18:11:13 <asiekierka> ok
18:11:14 <asiekierka> oh
18:11:15 <asiekierka> yes
18:11:32 <asiekierka> Queue-based, Unknown computational class, Two-dimensional languages, Unimplemented
18:11:33 <asiekierka> Anything else
18:11:45 <ais523> it's queue-based and 2D
18:11:48 <ais523> also, year
18:11:49 <AnMaster> isn't it a cell automaton?
18:11:50 <ais523> 2008, presumably
18:11:52 <asiekierka> 2008
18:11:55 <ais523> AnMaster: not quite
18:11:58 <AnMaster> bully-a-lot-one
18:12:00 <AnMaster> though
18:12:05 <asiekierka> It doesn't need th ecells to be shown
18:12:10 <asiekierka> the cells*
18:12:13 <asiekierka> But you can, though
18:12:17 <AnMaster> asiekierka, nor does RUBE does it?
18:12:23 <ais523> AnMaster: cellular automata don't have FIFOs
18:12:25 <asiekierka> yeah
18:12:29 <AnMaster> ais523, ah right
18:12:31 <asiekierka> but ais523 has a good point
18:12:44 <asiekierka> Also
18:12:49 <asiekierka> It's just a language, right?
18:13:01 <ais523> yes, Category:Languages
18:13:05 <asiekierka> And category:2008
18:13:18 <asiekierka> Since i made it... uh... today, right?
18:13:54 <asiekierka> I think i should make a hello world, but it's... Too easy!
18:14:01 <asiekierka> Oh wait
18:14:04 <asiekierka> i didn't define a thing
18:14:08 <asiekierka> The default direction of the dots!
18:14:10 <asiekierka> Oops.
18:14:15 <AnMaster> ais523, I had an idea for another language, it could be 2D or 3D and would use a particle, say a photon or something else, that bounced on the perfect mirror walls, and either you would need to trace it's path, seeing what instructions in the room it intersected with to find out what instructions were executed
18:14:17 <asiekierka> By default, they move... east, or south?
18:14:19 <asiekierka> Let's debate!
18:14:25 <AnMaster> ais523, flow control by flippable mirrors
18:14:31 <ais523> AnMaster: seen BackFlip?
18:14:41 <AnMaster> ais523, it will allow non-trivial paths
18:14:49 <Deewiant> asiekierka: north-northeast!
18:14:50 <ais523> ah, ok
18:15:00 <AnMaster> ais523, also you would have to consider refraction index of the materials
18:15:03 <asiekierka> I only have N/S/E/W
18:15:06 <AnMaster> ais523, and so on
18:15:10 <asiekierka> Also, as generators make dots that move east
18:15:16 <Deewiant> asiekierka: West!
18:15:19 <AnMaster> ais523, however the photon wouldn't be absorbed
18:15:19 <asiekierka> East!
18:15:24 <asiekierka> It'll fit to the generators!
18:15:28 <asiekierka> And for Hello World to work
18:15:31 <asiekierka> i could just make
18:15:32 <Deewiant> West! So it doesn't fit!
18:15:36 <asiekierka> East!
18:15:40 <Deewiant> Bah!
18:15:44 <asiekierka> Because it's meand to be useful, actually
18:15:49 <asiekierka> And hello world would be:
18:15:52 <asiekierka> (put an array of dots here) $
18:15:54 <asiekierka> And that's all!
18:16:00 <AnMaster> ais523, what do you think of this idea?
18:16:02 <asiekierka> That's how you make a Hello, World in my language
18:16:18 <ais523> AnMaster: relatively interesting
18:16:24 <ais523> I'm kind of distracted atm, though
18:16:26 <asiekierka> if it's west
18:16:27 <AnMaster> ais523, it could also be made to have several photons, and have lamps and such
18:16:31 -!- ais523 has changed nick to ais523|busy.
18:16:33 <AnMaster> ais523, and it could be 3D :D
18:16:34 <asiekierka> then $ (stringofdots here)
18:16:35 <AnMaster> oh well
18:16:58 <AnMaster> however asiekierka didn't seem to find it interesting at all, which is odd
18:18:00 <asiekierka> Since i don't know physics
18:18:05 <asiekierka> so i didn't quite understand
18:18:12 <AnMaster> ais523|busy, further I think instructions should be possible to place at non-integer coordinates, same for walls, flippable mirrors and such
18:18:29 <ais523|busy> AnMaster: have you seen Gravity?
18:18:44 <AnMaster> ais523|busy, yes, but that uses different parts of physics
18:18:50 <AnMaster> I'm unsure how to actually handle the infinite memory
18:18:51 <AnMaster> :/
18:19:18 <AnMaster> ais523|busy, since I want this photon language to be TC
18:21:02 <AnMaster> ais523|busy, I think declaring everything as some sort of list of tuples, or maybe in S-Expressions are the only sane way
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18:21:06 <AnMaster> for file format
18:22:27 <asiekierka> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/DOBELA
18:22:29 <AnMaster> (additem-simple Type X Y Z)
18:22:34 <asiekierka> Here you go, a DOBELA esolang wiki
18:22:37 <asiekierka> wiki enty
18:22:39 <asiekierka> entry*
18:22:43 <asiekierka> Now to add categories
18:22:52 <AnMaster> (additem-direction Type X Y Z DirX DirY DirZ)
18:23:14 <AnMaster> (additem-volume Type minX minY minZ maxX maxY maxZ)
18:23:21 <AnMaster> ais523|busy, maybe something like that?
18:23:28 <AnMaster> and possible extra parameters in some other way
18:23:31 <AnMaster> like colour of lamps
18:23:33 <AnMaster> oh well
18:24:21 <AnMaster> probably just specific (lamp '(x y z) '(x y z) '(r b g) intensity)
18:24:23 <AnMaster> or such
18:24:32 <AnMaster> probably in photons per second or such
18:24:38 <asiekierka> Also, my esolang is text-based, right
18:24:45 <asiekierka> or is it pattern-based
18:24:58 <asiekierka> nope
18:25:00 <asiekierka> text-based
18:25:03 <AnMaster> asiekierka, patterns would be like regex ones I suspect
18:25:05 <asiekierka> Also
18:25:09 <asiekierka> what's my language's level
18:25:11 <asiekierka> is it low-level
18:25:13 <asiekierka> or high-leel
18:25:15 <asiekierka> level*
18:25:34 <oklopol> asiekierka: computation cannot add new dots
18:25:49 <AnMaster> oops yeah an issue
18:25:53 <oklopol> you will just have the dots you had initially, or less.
18:26:00 <asiekierka> You can generate dotas
18:26:01 <asiekierka> dots*
18:26:03 <oklopol> you need to add some breeding rules
18:26:03 <AnMaster> oklopol, what about the : ?
18:26:04 <oklopol> you can?
18:26:06 <asiekierka> and switch whether you do it and you don't
18:26:07 <oklopol> i may have missed it
18:26:14 <AnMaster> : - Generates ones east by default.
18:26:15 <oklopol> ah
18:26:18 <asiekierka> And you can also use = or switch whenever it's zero or one
18:26:19 <oklopol> i did miss that
18:26:21 <asiekierka> :)
18:26:22 <oklopol> what does that mean?
18:26:29 <AnMaster> oklopol, generate one dots to the east
18:26:29 <asiekierka> It generates ones east
18:26:30 <AnMaster> I think
18:26:32 <asiekierka> so first it's :
18:26:39 <asiekierka> then :.
18:26:40 <asiekierka> then :...
18:26:42 <asiekierka> wait
18:26:43 <asiekierka> :..
18:26:46 <AnMaster> asiekierka, that doesn't work
18:26:51 <asiekierka> then :... then :.... then :.....
18:26:54 <asiekierka> until it's terminated
18:26:55 <asiekierka> :)
18:26:55 <AnMaster> I said it should have a rate of every other turn
18:27:00 <asiekierka> ok
18:27:05 <oklopol> okay, second issue
18:27:09 <AnMaster> asiekierka, since .. is defined as #
18:27:09 <asiekierka> so
18:27:09 <AnMaster> :P
18:27:11 <oklopol> this whole things is fully static
18:27:17 <oklopol> i cannot see any computation
18:27:21 <oklopol> there's no interaction
18:27:24 <asiekierka> :. then : . then :. . then : . . then :. . .
18:27:28 <oklopol> there's no changing the environment
18:27:33 <asiekierka> But when they collide
18:27:34 <asiekierka> as in
18:27:36 <AnMaster> oklopol, ais523 suggested it may be possible to simulate minsky in it
18:27:39 <oklopol> there's just a few dots going in circles
18:27:41 <asiekierka> ->.  .<-
18:27:45 <asiekierka> and ->..<-
18:27:46 <AnMaster> oklopol, there is | too
18:27:47 <asiekierka> Not when
18:27:49 <asiekierka> ..
18:27:55 <asiekierka> when the first one is moving up
18:27:57 <asiekierka> and the second down
18:28:00 <asiekierka> when they COLLIDE
18:28:01 <asiekierka> :P
18:28:13 <AnMaster> right you fixed that then ais523|busy
18:28:13 <asiekierka> I think that may mean it is self-modifying
18:28:14 <asiekierka> :P
18:28:14 <AnMaster> err
18:28:14 <ais523|busy> if it isn't TC, it's due to lack of working flow control
18:28:15 <AnMaster> asiekierka, ^
18:28:35 <AnMaster> anyway
18:28:38 <asiekierka> so, what should i do now
18:28:48 <AnMaster> ais523|busy, If I make Photon I need your help I bet working out what is needed
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18:29:10 <oklopol> oh
18:29:27 <oklopol> | has a state which can be changed by hitting it from a certain direction?
18:29:32 <AnMaster> oklopol, yep
18:29:35 <oklopol> ah
18:29:38 <asiekierka> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/DOBELA
18:29:40 <asiekierka> Fixed!
18:29:41 <oklopol> well *that's* computation
18:29:44 <AnMaster> oklopol, I suggested that one as a way to be able to redirect
18:29:55 <asiekierka> So
18:30:01 <asiekierka> Is it TC, is it not TC... I wonder.
18:30:41 <AnMaster> asiekierka, 1) implement a interpreter for it 2) implement a TC complete language in it
18:30:42 -!- asiekierka has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
18:30:43 <AnMaster> err
18:30:47 <AnMaster> TC language*
18:31:24 <AnMaster> oklopol, anyway what did you think of my Photon language?
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18:31:34 <asiekierka> Boo!
18:31:37 <asiekierka> What did i miss
18:31:38 <AnMaster> asiekierka, 1) implement a interpreter for it 2) implement a TC complete language in it
18:31:46 * asiekierka died. TWICE
18:31:46 <AnMaster> <AnMaster> err
18:31:46 <AnMaster> <AnMaster> TC language*
18:31:56 <AnMaster> asiekierka, well that is your own problem
18:32:05 <AnMaster> you can't expect someone else to do it for you
18:32:05 * asiekierka died. THE FOURTH TIME TOTAL
18:32:14 <asiekierka> I know a person that can do 1)
18:32:15 <asiekierka> :)
18:32:21 <AnMaster> well not me
18:32:27 <AnMaster> I have other things to do
18:32:31 <asiekierka> But i'll need to wait to thursday
18:32:33 <asiekierka> or friday
18:32:37 <AnMaster> like befunge and this Photon language idea I had
18:32:37 <asiekierka> Or someone may want to do it
18:33:35 <ehird> asiekierka: are you unable to code?
18:33:48 <asiekierka> i am able
18:33:55 <asiekierka> i just don't know enough programming to do it
18:34:39 <ehird> So, you are unable to code.
18:36:08 <asiekierka> and?
18:38:54 <asiekierka> hello?
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18:42:17 <AnMaster> ehird, how would you represent the angle of an object in a 3D space. Say a lamp with a position (x, y, z) but what should be used for the angle it is pointing towards?
18:42:35 <ehird> Uh. A number?
18:42:44 <ehird> In degrees or radians or something.
18:42:53 <AnMaster> well, relative what?
18:43:00 <ehird> what
18:43:03 <AnMaster> polar coordinates or something sounds familiar
18:43:06 <oklopol> use a unit vecotr
18:43:08 <oklopol> *vector
18:43:32 <AnMaster> oklopol, oh? I'm sorry but my 3D maths are kind of rusty (ie, never existed) :(
18:43:50 <oklopol> a vector that points to where ever the object is headed
18:43:54 <AnMaster> ah
18:43:54 <oklopol> and is 1 long
18:43:57 <AnMaster> right makes sense
18:43:59 <AnMaster> good idea
18:44:16 <AnMaster> oklopol, would that be same as normalised vector?
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18:44:31 <AnMaster> just trying to refresh memory there, since that sounds familiar
18:45:09 <Deewiant> yes, normalized
18:45:19 <oklopol> err yeah normalized
18:45:24 <AnMaster> with z or s ;P
18:45:28 <oklopol> normalization is just making the length 1
18:45:53 <oklopol> in any-dimensional vectors
18:47:18 <AnMaster> for rate of lamps that emit single photons and have a perfect exit direction (no spread)
18:47:21 <AnMaster> -- Parameters Coordinates, Direction, Wavelength, nanoseconds between each photon
18:47:21 <AnMaster> (lamp '(x y z) '(x y z) wavelength time)
18:47:23 <AnMaster> would that be sane?
18:47:41 <ehird> AnMaster: um, make your parameters self-describing
18:47:52 <ehird> coords direction wave-length (not sure for the last one)
18:47:55 <AnMaster> ehird, that was just an example, would have numbers there
18:48:02 <ehird> what language
18:48:16 <AnMaster> ehird, file format for Photon
18:48:23 <AnMaster> that I described above
18:48:30 <AnMaster> it is either that or some sort of tuples
18:49:02 <AnMaster> numbers are either integers or double (at least)
18:49:20 <AnMaster> ehird, so either scheme-ish S-Expressions
18:49:32 <AnMaster> or tuples of some type
18:49:55 <AnMaster> ehird, you add objects, flow control by mirrors that flip when photons hit them
18:50:01 <AnMaster> and so on
18:50:21 <AnMaster> refraction index should be correctly handled for objects too
18:50:40 <AnMaster> ehird, I think this language could be fairly interesting, and ais523|busy said as much above
18:50:41 <AnMaster> :D
18:52:20 <oklopol> can you go over the elements that do the actual computation?
18:52:26 <oklopol> something about flippable mirrors
18:52:36 <oklopol> i think i heard something like that
18:52:44 <AnMaster> oklopol, well flipped by photons
18:52:58 <AnMaster> oklopol, and yes I plan to break the laws of physics if I have to to make it tc
18:53:02 <AnMaster> because the plan is to make it tc
18:53:07 <AnMaster> far from all the details are worked out
18:53:10 <oklopol> a photon hits a certain kind of mirror, and it will rotate?
18:53:13 <ais523|busy> AnMaster: Gravity is uncomputable
18:53:16 <AnMaster> oklopol, yes
18:53:32 <AnMaster> ais523|busy, well I think this one should be computable if you do ray-tracing
18:53:34 <oklopol> okay, that sounds like computation, but it also sounds unprogrammable
18:53:48 <AnMaster> oklopol, hard to program yes
18:53:49 <oklopol> is there gravity?
18:53:59 <AnMaster> oklopol, you mean to act on photons?
18:54:03 <AnMaster> My plan was: no
18:54:31 <oklopol> thought so
18:54:33 <AnMaster> since that would make it a LOT harder to implement, if not even unimplementable
18:54:45 <oklopol> yes not to mention it would be pointless
18:54:55 <AnMaster> oklopol, why?
18:55:07 <Deewiant> gravity should act on the objects but not the photons ;-P
18:55:12 <oklopol> :D
18:55:20 <AnMaster> ais523|busy, anyway I plan to make it tc and possible to implement, even if messily hard to program in and messily hard to implement
18:55:26 <oklopol> AnMaster: no real reason, just my gut talking
18:55:26 <ais523|busy> ah, ok
18:55:31 <Deewiant> the photons will catch up until the program's been running so long they're moving at light speed
18:55:39 <AnMaster> Deewiant, haha
18:55:47 <AnMaster> "The photons travel at the speed of light (for the given material). Since this
18:55:47 <AnMaster> is too fast to be able to simulate in real time for current computers running
18:55:47 <AnMaster> the simulation at a slower speed is allowed."
18:55:52 <AnMaster> from the draft I'm *trying to write*
18:56:01 <ais523|busy> I wonder if it will be easier or harder to implement than Feather
18:56:35 <ais523|busy> anyway, I think I've figured out how to prevent Feather going into an infinite loop (as opposed to arbitrary loop) when it parses the parser with itself
18:56:55 <ais523|busy> make the parser property of an object be the parser it was parsed with
18:56:56 <Deewiant> arbitrary loop?
18:57:00 <ais523|busy> so ^parser is the parser
18:57:04 <ais523|busy> Deewiant: it's a Feather thing
18:57:11 <ehird> ais523|busy: uh, just make it parse the parser with the previous parser
18:57:15 <ais523|busy> basically, it's a loop that runs a finite number of times
18:57:16 <ehird> then parse the parser with the current parser
18:57:20 <ehird> until oldparser == newparser
18:57:27 <ehird> (i.e. reparse until the parsing stabalizes)
18:57:29 <AnMaster> anyway, lamps (single photons at a given rate, with possibly a max count), surfaces (perfect mirrors or perfect absorbers), flippable mirrors, and volumes (transparent, with a given refraction index)
18:57:30 <ais523|busy> but you can retroactively change how many times it ran
18:57:32 <AnMaster> what else do I need?
18:57:51 <ais523|busy> thus it's effectively an infinite loop that runs in finite time, if you ever find that it didn't run far enough you change your mind about how far it ran
18:58:00 <ais523|busy> ehird: oldparser will never == newparser, probably
18:58:28 <ehird> ais523|busy: i doubt it
18:58:32 <ehird> ais523|busy: if you just add some new syntax, but don't use it in the parser, then it'll work immediately
18:58:44 <ehird> if you make it parse a certain construct differently
18:58:49 <ehird> but include a backwards compatibility clause
18:58:52 <ehird> it'll immediately stabalize
18:58:56 <ehird> then remove the backwards-compat clause
18:59:00 <ehird> and since its running on the new parser, it'll work.
18:59:51 <ais523|busy> ehird: how do you compare functions for equality, again?
19:00:03 <ehird> uh, you don't
19:00:06 <ehird> you compare the parsetree.
19:00:12 <ais523|busy> ehird: there is no parsetree
19:00:22 <ais523|busy> "parser"'s a bit of a misnomer
19:00:28 <ais523|busy> it's a function which maps strings to functions
19:00:33 <ais523|busy> sort of like eval
19:00:39 <ehird> ais523|busy: well, just do a dumb compare then
19:00:41 <ehird> for exact equality
19:00:50 <ais523|busy> it would always fail
19:01:13 <ehird> ais523|busy: nope
19:01:15 <ehird> think about it
19:01:19 <ehird> i want to add a mega super syntax to the parser
19:01:20 <ehird> now
19:01:25 <ehird> i add it, but i also use it in the parser at the same time
19:01:26 <ehird> BUT
19:01:35 <ehird> i write the expanded form in a guard checkign for the old parser version
19:01:45 <ehird> so it runs, uses the expanded form, runs it again, oh, now it uses the non-expanded shortcut
19:01:50 <ehird> and then next time its stable
19:01:54 <ehird> so then you can remove the backwards-compat guard
19:01:56 <ehird> reparse
19:01:59 <ehird> and it'll work immediately
19:02:01 <ehird> voila
19:02:39 <oklopol> #feather is taken, i see
19:02:59 <ais523|busy> yes
19:03:08 <ais523|busy> #feather-lang is the appropriate channel
19:03:19 <oklopol> ah¨
19:03:29 <oklopol> i've been there occasionally
19:03:59 <AnMaster> ais523|busy, Deewiant, oklopol: http://rafb.net/p/jap3S630.html
19:04:09 <AnMaster> comments and suggestions please
19:04:14 <AnMaster> same goes for anyone else
19:04:51 <AnMaster> I probably want some form of stdout too, but possibly no stdin
19:05:49 <AnMaster> ehird, you too please
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19:06:17 <ehird> AnMaster: Make the format something like this:
19:06:56 <ehird> [ lamp location: (X,Y,Z) direction: (X,Y,Z) wavelength: Foo time: Foo count: Foo ]
19:06:57 <ehird> or similar
19:06:58 <AnMaster> (also there shouldn't be a , after time in the s-expression example, that was a typo
19:07:09 <ais523|busy> ehird: Smalltalk?
19:07:12 <AnMaster> ehird, that is hard to parse, ideally I want something prefix based
19:07:13 <ais523|busy> you could do it in prolog too
19:07:15 <AnMaster> like scheme
19:07:25 <ais523|busy> lamp(vector(X,Y,Z),direction(X,Y,Z),Foo,Foo,Foo)
19:07:25 <ehird> ais523|busy: Kind of a blend of lisp/smalltalk/n3/prolog.
19:07:27 <oklopol> THERE IS A THING CALLED LAMP
19:07:32 <oklopol> IT HAS THIS THING CALLED LOCATION
19:07:32 <ehird> AnMaster: That is not hard to parse.
19:07:38 <oklopol> WHICH IS AS FOLLOWS: (x, y, z)
19:07:39 <ehird> first node is the type of thing
19:07:40 <Deewiant> I HAZ A LAMP
19:07:42 <ehird> the rest of KEY: VALUE
19:07:44 <ehird> simple.
19:07:46 <AnMaster> ais523|busy, :(
19:07:52 <ehird> it's just s-expressions with labels.
19:08:01 <AnMaster> ehird, hm
19:08:07 <AnMaster> ehird, so lets make that proper
19:08:17 <ais523|busy> ehird: Prolog is sexp too, but it uses comma not space and the first element is outside the parens
19:08:21 <oklopol> heh, was scared for a sec there
19:08:26 <ehird> ?
19:08:29 <oklopol> thought it was asiekierka suggesting the prolog
19:08:34 <ais523|busy> ehird: Prolog is based on Lisp
19:08:42 <ais523|busy> although control flow is very different
19:08:43 <ehird> ais523|busy: Hi. I know prolog.
19:08:45 <ehird> Thanks.
19:08:56 <ais523|busy> ah, I misinterpreted what the ? was about
19:09:04 <ehird> <AnMaster> ehird, so lets make that proper
19:09:07 <AnMaster> ehird, (lamp (list (list location (list X Y Z))
19:09:08 <AnMaster> and so on
19:09:08 <ehird> lets go pen
19:09:12 <AnMaster> what about that?
19:09:18 <ehird> AnMaster: no, because that is pig ugly and pointless
19:09:20 <AnMaster> yes that isn't finished
19:09:28 <AnMaster> ehird, so is your format IMO :)
19:09:34 <ehird> [<type> <key>: <value> <key>: <value>]
19:09:39 <ehird> Simple. Readable. Easily indentable
19:09:57 <AnMaster> well
19:09:59 <ehird> [ lamp
19:09:59 <ehird>   direction: (X,Y,Z)
19:10:00 <ehird>   foo: blah
19:10:00 <ehird>   etc: baz ]
19:10:01 <AnMaster> I'll leave format till later
19:10:03 <AnMaster> ok?
19:10:08 <AnMaster> lets get on with the rest
19:10:13 <ehird> Do I have to?
19:10:48 <AnMaster> ehird, you could just shut up instead?
19:10:56 <ehird> Charming.
19:10:57 <AnMaster> or you could contribute to the language
19:11:09 <ehird> Or I could talk about things unrelated to that language in #esoteric.
19:11:09 <AnMaster> or you could just ignore me I guess and go on talking format
19:11:18 <AnMaster> anyway
19:11:27 <AnMaster> what other objects are needed to make it tc
19:11:27 <ehird> Well, if I wanted to help you with your language before I certainly don't know.
19:11:32 <AnMaster> how to create storage?
19:11:52 <AnMaster> ehird, well as I said, lets just leave format till later? ok?
19:12:28 <ehird> You're implying that I want an indepth discussion about it as opposed to merely glancing at it and having one opinion.
19:12:31 <AnMaster> I have no intention to offend you, nor anyone else.
19:12:51 <AnMaster> nor have I had that before
19:13:02 <ehird> What are you even talking about?
19:13:25 <AnMaster> ehird, you seemed offended at that I wanted to leave file format for later?
19:13:31 <AnMaster> sorry if I misunderstood that
19:16:40 * ais523|busy wonders about what punctuation and capitalisation for hello world programs is most important
19:16:49 <ais523|busy> the original, in K&R, was "hello world"
19:16:53 <ais523|busy> but that doesn't seem very popular
19:16:54 <ehird> Hello, world!\n
19:17:05 <ais523|busy> yes, that's the one I see most often
19:17:12 <ais523|busy> "Hello World" also seems to be popular
19:17:14 <ehird> grammatically correct, elegant, etc
19:17:15 <AnMaster> that is the standard one
19:17:20 <ais523|busy> and "Hello World!" is the other one I see from time to time
19:17:24 <AnMaster> ehird, the , there seems odd to me
19:17:30 <AnMaster> at least to me
19:17:33 <ais523|busy> "Hello, World!" is my favourite
19:17:35 <ehird> AnMaster: no, it's valid
19:17:38 <AnMaster> ehird, oh?
19:17:46 <AnMaster> well what does it mean exactly there
19:17:51 <ais523|busy> AnMaster: when talking to someone, often you put their name at the end of the sentence, with a comma
19:17:52 <ehird> Hello, world.
19:17:53 <ehird> :-P
19:17:57 <ais523|busy> so on IRC, I would say
19:18:00 <ais523|busy> ehird: are you listening?
19:18:07 <AnMaster> err yeah that uses :
19:18:09 <AnMaster> ;P
19:18:09 <ais523|busy> if I met ehird in RL, the English equivalent would be
19:18:14 <ais523|busy> are you listening, ehird?
19:18:16 <AnMaster> ah right
19:18:17 <AnMaster> true
19:18:28 <ehird> no
19:18:31 <AnMaster> ais523|busy, you could start with the name too in English, couldn't you?
19:18:32 <ehird> ais523|busy: Addressing me as ehird IRL would be a bit weird.
19:18:34 <ehird> Especially as it's not easy to pronounce.
19:18:36 <ehird> :-P
19:19:14 <ais523|busy> it is for me
19:19:21 * AnMaster considers.
19:19:26 <ais523|busy> it's shorter than your real name, anyway
19:19:28 <AnMaster> Possible yes, not that easy though
19:19:58 <ehird> ais523|busy: "Elliott" is quicker to say than "ehird", actually.
19:19:59 <AnMaster> ais523|busy, xwrt is even shorter, is it easier?
19:20:14 <AnMaster> true no vowels
19:20:39 <ais523|busy> ehird: ehird is just pronounced as "e heard", or that's how I pronounce it mentally
19:20:42 <ais523|busy> pretty easy to say
19:20:42 <AnMaster> rwyt maybe?
19:21:03 <ais523|busy> maybe I've got good at it from thinking it so often
19:21:07 <AnMaster> ais523|busy, saying a lone "e" isn't all that easy
19:21:25 <ehird> ais523|busy: i generally don't think your name as it takes ages to pronounce
19:21:25 <ais523|busy> yes it is
19:21:32 <AnMaster> ais523|busy, not in front of h
19:21:35 <ais523|busy> heh, I think it even though it takes ages to pronounce
19:21:37 <ehird> IRL I'd probably word sentences to avoid mentioning a name at all.
19:21:50 <ehird> "that one"
19:21:58 <ehird> ^^ POLITICALLY RELEVANT JOKE ^^
19:22:08 <ais523|busy> heh, ais523 takes even longer to pronounce then AnMaster
19:22:11 <ais523|busy> if you spell it out, like I do
19:22:22 <AnMaster> ais523|busy, my nick isn't meant to pronounce
19:22:23 <AnMaster> oh well
19:22:29 <ais523|busy> well, nicks aren't, generally
19:22:31 <ais523|busy> mine definitely isn't
19:22:38 <oklopol> i'm called oklopol irl too
19:22:41 <oklopol> or just oklo
19:22:42 <ais523|busy> but I've grown to like it for all sorts of purposes
19:22:48 <ais523|busy> oklopol: are you called oklofok and oklocod too?
19:22:48 * AnMaster is now known as XMwPEhuSSj
19:22:49 <ehird> Whatever do you mean, ay eye ess five two three pipe busy?
19:22:51 <oklopol> also with my irl name of course
19:22:57 <oklopol> and also occasionally veli lasol
19:23:02 <AnMaster> ais523|busy, XMwPEhuSSj
19:23:04 <AnMaster> try that one
19:23:07 <ehird> oklopol: how do you pronounce oklopol, "ock lo pohl"?
19:23:11 <AnMaster> (from rng)
19:23:17 <AnMaster> (prng rather)
19:23:18 <ais523|busy> AnMaster: I think it's faster to pronounce than ais523, but harder
19:23:27 <oklopol> ehird: yes
19:23:32 <AnMaster> ais523|busy, I think it is impossible
19:23:34 <AnMaster> it is for me at least
19:23:39 <ais523|busy> ehird: I pronounce it like that but with a short o at the end
19:23:40 <ehird> AnMaster: not hard
19:23:41 <oklopol> finnish is pronounced as it's written, characters are pronounced as in lojban
19:23:44 <ehird> ais523|busy: yes
19:23:45 <AnMaster> ehird, huh?
19:23:45 <ehird> not poll
19:23:46 <ehird> pohl
19:23:51 <oklopol> except for yäö
19:23:57 <ais523|busy> oklôpol, where the accent indicates a long vowel
19:24:11 <oklopol> ah well "poll" is how it's pronounced
19:24:19 <ehird> oklopol: depends how you pronounce poll
19:24:23 <ehird> oklopol: just record the pronounciation
19:24:24 <ehird> :-P
19:24:24 <oklopol> except the "p" is not aspirated
19:24:36 <ais523|busy> what is an aspirated p?
19:24:42 <AnMaster> I could pronounce oklopol easily
19:24:42 <ais523|busy> you can aspirate vowels, but consonants?
19:24:50 <oklopol> you have an "h" after it
19:24:59 <ais523|busy> oklopholl?
19:24:59 <AnMaster> oklopol, your nick? No
19:25:03 <oklopol> "b" is a non-aspirated, voiced "p", in english
19:25:11 <ais523|busy> ah, ok
19:25:17 <ehird> oklopol: record a pronounciation
19:25:18 <ehird> :p
19:25:20 <ais523|busy> so it's a case of consonants differing slightly between languages
19:25:24 <AnMaster> oklopol, it is *easy* to pronounce "oklopol" in Swedish
19:25:30 <AnMaster> probably not what you want though
19:25:39 <oklopol> AnMaster: yes, but you may pronounce it wrong, as "o" can also be "u"
19:25:51 <AnMaster> oklopol, ah I wouldn't do it like that
19:25:56 <AnMaster> ehird, I agree
19:25:58 <AnMaster> that is a good idea
19:25:58 <oklopol> yeah then it's probably correct
19:26:22 <AnMaster> "oklo-pol" basically
19:28:58 <oklopol> ais523|busy: also the emphasis is on OKlopol
19:29:03 * ais523|busy tries to think up other ways to pronounce oklopol
19:29:10 <ais523|busy> "oklopple" would be one
19:29:39 -!- Corun has joined.
19:31:08 -!- ais523|busy has changed nick to ais523.
19:31:40 -!- asiekierka has joined.
19:31:42 <asiekierka> AAUUGH
19:31:44 <asiekierka> my net crashed
19:31:46 <asiekierka> for 2 hours
19:31:47 <asiekierka> Ok
19:31:50 <asiekierka> So, how's DOBELA, my esolang
19:31:54 <asiekierka> What did i miss
19:32:35 <ais523> an argument about how to pronounce "oklopol"
19:32:41 <asiekierka> ok
19:32:42 <asiekierka> Also
19:32:46 <ais523> and AnMaster starting off a new lang
19:32:46 <asiekierka> i'm going for 10-15 mins
19:32:54 <asiekierka> Can anyone please think whether DOBELA is TC
19:32:57 <asiekierka> what it lacks
19:32:58 <asiekierka> for TC
19:33:00 <asiekierka> etc
19:33:00 <asiekierka> etc
19:33:02 <asiekierka> Give me tips
19:33:19 <AnMaster> ais523, I'm preparing another draft
19:33:22 <AnMaster> next one I mean
19:33:51 <AnMaster> ais523, what do you call a cube based on a non-square rectangle in English?
19:33:58 <AnMaster> I don't remember English word
19:34:04 <AnMaster> "rätblock" in Swedish
19:34:11 <AnMaster> not all sides need to be the same
19:34:17 <AnMaster> but opposite ones need to me
19:34:17 <AnMaster> be*
19:34:31 <ais523> AnMaster: cuboid
19:34:34 <AnMaster> ah thanks
19:34:42 -!- Corun has quit ("Leaving").
19:34:43 <ais523> if you mean a shape made from 6 rectangles
19:34:44 <fizzie> Also called "rectangular prism".
19:34:47 <AnMaster> ais523, yep
19:34:52 <AnMaster> and all corners as in a cube
19:34:59 <AnMaster> so no tilting
19:35:12 <ais523> yes
19:35:22 <ais523> if you have 6 parallelograms, so it's tilted, you get a parallelepiped
19:35:30 <ais523> which isn't a very commonly used word, but it's great fun to say
19:36:39 <AnMaster> hehe
19:36:52 <AnMaster> ais523, should I give refraction index or speed of light?
19:36:56 <AnMaster> for materials
19:37:06 <ais523> probably refraction index
19:37:10 <fizzie> Heh: "As of 2005, no example of a perfect cuboid had been found and no one had proven that it cannot exist. Exhaustive computer searches have proven that the smallest edge of the perfect box is at least 4.3 billion."
19:37:39 <fizzie> There certainly seem to be a lot of things that are not yet known. Those mathematicians ought to start getting things done.
19:37:49 -!- Corun has joined.
19:37:54 <AnMaster> fizzie, huh?
19:38:05 <AnMaster> what is a perfect cuboid?
19:38:08 <Asztal> yeah, they should get around to finding those odd perfect numbers too
19:38:14 <fizzie> A perfect cuboid is one where the edges, face dianogals and the space diagonal are all integers.
19:38:21 <AnMaster> ah...
19:38:28 <ehird> http://filebin.ca/fkwcwc/eclipple.mp3 A 3 in one deal. Correct followed by incorrect pronounciations of "oklopol" and "ehird", followed by the incorruptable "ais523".
19:38:31 <ehird> oklopol: is my pronouncuation of oklopol right
19:38:53 <AnMaster> ais523, oh? I plan to make sure that it calculates for the different refraction you get depending the wavelength of the photon
19:39:22 <AnMaster> eclipple?
19:39:39 <AnMaster> ehird, ?
19:40:00 <ehird> AnMaster: my intentionally-bad pronounciation of oklopol
19:40:30 <ais523> ehird: are you female, or are my headphones broken?
19:40:35 <AnMaster> http://rafb.net/p/cZIzpE66.html
19:40:43 <ehird> ais523: i'm a 13-year-old with an abnormally high voice.
19:40:49 <fizzie> "If it looks like a girl, sounds like a girl, ..."
19:40:49 <ais523> ah, ok
19:40:53 <ehird> your headphones may or may not be broken.
19:41:01 <oklopol> ehird: the first one is about right
19:41:06 <AnMaster> oklopol, huh
19:41:08 <AnMaster> really?
19:41:08 <fizzie> And quacks like a duck. (Disclaimer: didn't listen to it yet.)
19:41:10 <ehird> oklopol: 'about' right? :-P
19:41:22 * AnMaster is going to record too now
19:41:34 <Asztal> he said the middle o was a long vowel, IIRC
19:41:51 <oklopol> i said?
19:42:08 <Asztal> ok, someone else said :)
19:42:11 <oklopol> why would a short o be long?
19:42:13 <fizzie> Okloooooppol.
19:42:15 <oklopol> this is finnish
19:42:24 <oklopol> ehird: your last l
19:42:26 <oklopol> is an english l
19:42:33 <Deewiant> and his k is aspirated
19:42:35 <oklopol> it's how a finnish child would say oklopol
19:42:40 <AnMaster> so I have a raw file here
19:42:43 <ehird> i am a finnish child!
19:42:43 <oklopol> hmm
19:42:46 <oklopol> yeah i guess
19:42:49 <AnMaster> ~/tmp/oklopol.raw: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 8 bit, mono 8000 Hz
19:42:52 <ehird> fizzie: You said something about quacking? http://filebin.ca/tkdpj/quack.mp3
19:42:55 <AnMaster> do you think you can play that?
19:42:57 <AnMaster> was just arecord
19:42:59 <Deewiant> sounds like "okhlopoll" or something
19:43:02 <oklopol> yeah
19:43:06 <ehird> AnMaster: You could just use lame(1) to give an mp3, you know.
19:43:07 <oklopol> didn't notice it because of the l
19:43:32 -!- oerjan has joined.
19:43:39 <oklopol> AnMaster: i'm pretty sure i can
19:44:12 -!- olsner has joined.
19:44:23 <ehird> fizzie: Though that quack isn't very...quacky.
19:44:39 <AnMaster> ehird, gives me noise hm
19:44:47 <ehird> AnMaster: Make a wav first, then.
19:44:52 <ehird> Wait, no.
19:44:56 <AnMaster> well can't figure out
19:44:56 <ehird> lame has an option for raw input
19:45:04 * ehird looks up
19:45:07 <ehird> AnMaster: -r
19:45:12 <AnMaster> ehird, it isn't raw I think
19:45:13 <AnMaster> hm
19:45:17 <ehird> [[Sampling   rate   and
19:45:17 <ehird>               mono/stereo/jstereo  must  be  specified  on  the  command line.]]
19:45:34 <Deewiant> jstereo?
19:45:43 <fizzie> Deewiant: "joint stereo".
19:45:43 <ehird> Deewiant: joint stereo
19:45:47 <ehird> the newer versiony thing of stereo
19:45:48 <Deewiant> what's that
19:45:49 <AnMaster> ehird, ah oggenc worked
19:45:52 <AnMaster> http://omploader.org/vdXZj
19:45:54 <AnMaster> ogg file
19:45:59 <AnMaster> oklopol, is that correct?
19:46:00 <ehird> AnMaster: ok. lame -r -s 8 -m j foo.raw foo.mp3 for further reference
19:46:15 <AnMaster> ehird, noise too, that was one I tested
19:46:24 <ehird> AnMaster: your voice is weird
19:46:30 <AnMaster> ehird, very bad headset
19:46:42 <AnMaster> so bad quality of recording too
19:46:48 <AnMaster> ehird, also I got a cold
19:46:53 <AnMaster> so yeah my voice is odd
19:46:54 <Deewiant> AnMaster: that page crashed my firefox
19:46:56 <fizzie> Deewiant: It's cheating. :p (For the high frequency part, there's no real stereo, just a single channel + panning.)
19:47:03 <AnMaster> Deewiant, not my problem
19:47:13 <ehird> fizzie: iirc, it actually produces better quality
19:47:18 <ehird> and smaller filesizes
19:47:26 <fizzie> Better quality for the same bitrate, maybe.
19:47:40 <ehird> AnMaster: Um, says the person who was astonished that I wasn't going to make my site work in IE..
19:47:44 <Deewiant> ahh, AnMaster sounds so swedish :-D
19:47:58 <AnMaster> Deewiant, well it doesn't crash my firefox 2
19:48:00 <Deewiant> AnMaster: stress on the first syllable
19:48:03 <AnMaster> so no clue why it crashes your
19:48:08 <AnMaster> Deewiant, heh?
19:48:16 <Deewiant> this is 3.0.3
19:48:22 <AnMaster> Deewiant, for me firefox 2 opens a download dialog
19:48:24 <AnMaster> that's all
19:48:25 <Deewiant> AnMaster: you need to stress the first syllable
19:48:38 <AnMaster> Deewiant, and what do I stress now?
19:48:42 <Deewiant> AnMaster: the middle one
19:49:03 <AnMaster> well if I stress the first one, it would sound English
19:49:06 <Deewiant> and then your o's just sound all swedish but I guess that can't be helped :-P
19:49:17 <Deewiant> AnMaster: in finnish, all words have the stress on the first syllable
19:49:22 <AnMaster> Deewiant, and I could say it in English I guess
19:50:08 <oklopol> AnMaster: in english the vowels would be completely wrong
19:50:14 <AnMaster> Deewiant, http://omploader.org/vdXZk <-- in English
19:50:30 <oklopol> seems i can't open those
19:50:32 * AnMaster wonders if ehird thinks that sound less strange
19:50:35 <oklopol> but i trust Deewiant
19:50:37 <AnMaster> oklopol, normal *.ogg
19:50:43 <AnMaster> so wget
19:50:47 <asiekierka> ok
19:50:47 <AnMaster> rename to whatever.ogg
19:50:47 <ehird> AnMaster: oklopol uses windows.
19:50:48 <asiekierka> back
19:50:55 <Deewiant> AnMaster: better
19:50:58 <AnMaster> ehird, well I guess he could save it to disk
19:51:02 <AnMaster> Deewiant, that was English o
19:51:04 <AnMaster> too
19:51:06 <ehird> AnMaster: And then how do you propose he opens it?
19:51:12 <Deewiant> AnMaster: yeah, englishy o's, I was going to say that next
19:51:15 <AnMaster> ehird, there is vlc or mplayer iirc
19:51:18 <AnMaster> both for windows
19:51:21 <AnMaster> and other tools too
19:51:22 <oklopol> vlc should be able to play it
19:51:28 <oklopol> but it just doesn't work.
19:51:33 <AnMaster> oklopol, odd
19:51:37 <Deewiant> oklopol: the sound is really quiet
19:51:41 <Deewiant> you might just not hear it
19:51:45 <Deewiant> replay gain put +16 decibels
19:51:45 <asiekierka> hm
19:51:55 <AnMaster> Deewiant, really? sounded fine here
19:51:58 <Asztal> I used media player classic, that seemed to work.
19:52:00 <AnMaster> I have a SB Live 5.1
19:52:07 <AnMaster> but the head set really sucks
19:52:10 <asiekierka> How's DOBELA? And how do YOU spell DOBELA
19:52:17 <asiekierka> i spell it "do-BEE-la"
19:52:26 <Deewiant> AnMaster: like said, replay gain put +16 decibels, and that's just analysing the sound
19:52:34 <Deewiant> asiekierka: I spell it DOBELA
19:52:35 <asiekierka> how do YOU spell it
19:52:37 <AnMaster> Deewiant, "noise"?
19:52:47 <asiekierka> Deewiant: uh... how?
19:52:53 <ehird> asiekierka: he spells it DOBELA
19:52:56 <Deewiant> asiekierka: you probably meant something other than 'spell'
19:52:59 <asiekierka> oh
19:53:00 <Deewiant> AnMaster: ?
19:53:00 <asiekierka> right
19:53:01 <asiekierka> pronounce
19:53:02 <AnMaster> Deewiant, anyway, I can replay it just fine at a moderate volume in my headset
19:53:02 <asiekierka> :/
19:53:04 <asiekierka> Augh
19:53:07 <oklopol> okay opened in audacity
19:53:11 <asiekierka> Yes
19:53:16 <asiekierka> How do you PRONOUNCE DOBELA
19:53:20 <fizzie> It is very quiet, yes. If you open it in audacity, the amplitude peaks go to something like 0.07, in the range [-1, 1].
19:53:20 <asiekierka> i pronounce it "do-BEE-la"
19:53:23 <oklopol> just skip the aspiration and that's fine
19:53:43 <asiekierka> Hm?
19:53:47 <asiekierka> How do you pronounce DOBELA
19:53:49 <AnMaster> fizzie well... No clue about that
19:53:56 <oklopol> asiekierka: doo-bee-lah
19:53:58 <ehird> My voice is very high: http://filebin.ca/rbccv/aaaaaa.mp3
19:53:59 <AnMaster> asiekierka, I don't, since I'm working on Photon
19:54:15 <AnMaster> ehird, "high volume" or "high pitch", or both?
19:54:21 <ehird> AnMaster: pitch
19:54:25 <Deewiant> asiekierka: do-be-la where "be" is not pronounced like the english "be"
19:54:26 <asiekierka> oklopol: Just like me, but proper-englishfied, and i focus on "BEE"
19:54:29 <ehird> high volume=loud
19:54:31 <asiekierka> oh
19:54:40 <oklopol> ehird: that was awesome :)
19:54:42 <asiekierka> i pronounce it like "be" is pronounced like "bee"
19:54:44 <AnMaster> ehird, I got a very low pitched voice
19:54:49 <Deewiant> asiekierka: "be" as in "bet" here
19:54:49 <AnMaster> can get down a long way
19:54:52 <AnMaster> but not up much
19:54:57 <ehird> oklopol: :D
19:55:06 <asiekierka> Hm, Deewiant, that's also right
19:55:11 <AnMaster> ehird, I think near low C iirc.
19:55:21 <ehird> all i know is that my throat hurts now
19:55:21 <AnMaster> but that was a few years ago, I almost reached it
19:55:45 <AnMaster> ehird, was that from encyclopedia btw?
19:55:46 <AnMaster> err
19:55:52 <AnMaster> uncyclopedia
19:55:58 <ehird> AnMaster: no... i made it
19:56:00 * AnMaster kicks aspell where it hurts
19:56:02 <ehird> with a microphone and audacity
19:56:04 <AnMaster> ehird, I mean those "A"
19:56:06 <AnMaster> duh
19:56:07 <ehird> and my voice.
19:56:09 <AnMaster> Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa!
19:56:13 <ehird> AnMaster: no, that's because that's what i said
19:56:19 <ehird> i said "aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa"
19:56:31 <oklopol> err wasn't it more like aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa?
19:56:49 <AnMaster> ehird, ah I thought you used uncyclopedia as a script for that performance ;P
19:57:30 <AnMaster> Deewiant, hm maybe I should stress the *last* syllable
19:57:35 <AnMaster> sounds quite fun
19:57:40 <AnMaster> in oklopol
19:57:41 <fizzie> I pronounce it like "doobela" in Finnish; that would be something like "doo" as in the word "door", then "be" as in the word "bed", and then the "la" as in... uh, "last".
19:57:48 <Deewiant> AnMaster: err, no, don't do that. ;-P
19:57:55 <AnMaster> Deewiant, why not? It sounds fun
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19:58:17 <Deewiant> fizzie: american "last" is not that "la"
19:58:24 <Deewiant> AnMaster: well, you can do whatever you want of course!
19:58:26 <ehird> oklopol: i am a mutant: http://filebin.ca/stzadm/aaaaaeriueuriuear.mp3
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19:58:35 <fizzie> Deewiant: You're right, I just couldn't figure out a good example there.
19:58:36 <asiekierka> finished up the DOBELA wiki entry
19:58:41 <asiekierka> And so, i'm done.
19:58:42 <AnMaster> Deewiant, what about your nick?
19:58:44 <Deewiant> fizzie: "love"
19:58:48 <AnMaster> Dee-wiant
19:58:48 <AnMaster> ?
19:58:57 <AnMaster> long or short e?
19:59:03 <Deewiant> like "deviant", pronouncing "v" as "w" if you wish.
19:59:13 <ehird> oddly, http://filebin.ca/stzadm/aaaaaeriueuriuear.mp3 gets louder the lower my voice is
19:59:20 <ais523> yes, I pronounce it as "deviant" but with w not v
19:59:34 <AnMaster> Deewiant, so not a long e?
19:59:41 <AnMaster> I always thought it was
19:59:53 <fizzie> Deewiant: Okay, it's closer that way. I was trying to think of words that I'd start with a "la"-like sound, but the only things that came to mind were "lament" and "lart".
20:00:03 <Deewiant> fizzie: Also, "luck".
20:00:10 <Deewiant> AnMaster: it's long, yes.
20:00:29 <asiekierka> or "lack"
20:00:32 <asiekierka> "lack" thereof
20:00:36 <Deewiant> asiekierka: no, that's again wrong. :-P
20:00:44 <Deewiant> "larder"
20:00:47 <Deewiant> or just "lard"
20:01:04 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I tried to adjust sound levels.
20:01:08 <AnMaster> lets see if it helps
20:01:20 <ais523> "fizzie" is easy to pronounce, I think
20:01:28 <ais523> I wonder if I pronounce it the same way as other people
20:01:35 <Deewiant> unless it's meant to be pronounced finnish-ly
20:01:38 <Deewiant> if not, "fizzy"
20:01:50 <AnMaster> Deewiant, http://omploader.org/vdXZl
20:01:55 <AnMaster> Deewiant, what about that for your nick?
20:01:59 <fizzie> ais523: People who use that name for me in real life just shorten it to "fiz"; like "fizz" but with a shorter buzz at the end.
20:02:01 <AnMaster> and how are sound levels?
20:02:18 <AnMaster> and yes I need to speak low to not disturb other ppl
20:02:19 <Deewiant> AnMaster: replaygain gives only +10 dB now. :-)
20:02:30 <AnMaster> Deewiant, "turn volume up"?
20:02:34 <AnMaster> tried that one?
20:02:39 <Deewiant> AnMaster: no, that's what replay gain is for.
20:03:05 <Deewiant> AnMaster: as for pronounciation, I'm not really hearing the "i" but I guess it's fine
20:03:09 <AnMaster> Deewiant, ah there is an option "mic boost +20 db"?
20:03:14 <AnMaster> in the mixer settings
20:03:21 <AnMaster> maybe that is a good idea?
20:03:38 <Deewiant> that, and undo what you did previously to increase it
20:03:58 <AnMaster> Deewiant, "turning recording level from 90% to 100% for channel mic"
20:04:00 <asiekierka> Hmm. So, as it turns out, DOBELA is left alone. Until someone makes an interpreter of something for it. And comparison is going to be a neato task. See you, and I hope the challenge of DOBELA TC-proving may be solved
20:04:02 <AnMaster> was what I did before
20:04:16 <AnMaster> Deewiant, ugh I just get a LOT of loud noise now
20:04:17 <Deewiant> AnMaster: so bring it to 85% and do the boost thing.
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20:04:32 <ehird> GASP! INTERPRETERS DO NOT WRITE THEMSELVES
20:05:26 <fizzie> Deewiant: Oh, and yes, most people I've heard to say "fizzie" have done it pretty finnish-ly, when not abbreviating it. Like "fitsie", not "fisi".
20:05:32 <AnMaster> Omploaded 'fizzie.ogg' to http://omploader.org/vdXZm
20:05:34 <AnMaster> Deewiant, fizzie ^
20:05:47 <Deewiant> fizzie: oh, finnish "z" too, didn't even realize that one :-)
20:05:55 <AnMaster> ehird, he should write it himself, as I suggested before
20:05:59 <AnMaster> and so did you
20:06:01 <ehird> AnMaster: he can't
20:06:04 <ehird> as he just admitted he can't program
20:06:07 <ehird> very well
20:06:11 <Deewiant> AnMaster: +7 dB from replay gain now
20:06:13 <ehird> unfortunately, everything he does is terminally uninteresting
20:06:17 <ehird> so it wont' be written
20:06:17 <AnMaster> Deewiant, heh
20:06:35 <AnMaster> Deewiant, when I play it back it got lots and lots of noise
20:06:43 <ehird> brb
20:06:46 <AnMaster> ehird, indeed
20:07:04 <Deewiant> AnMaster: most albums these days get -10 dB from replay gain
20:07:06 <AnMaster> fizzie, how was my attempt at your nick btw?
20:07:09 <fizzie> Deewiant: Well, I don't really have a preferred pronunciation for it.
20:07:16 <Deewiant> AnMaster: see "loudness war" at wikipedia if you're interested
20:07:30 <AnMaster> Deewiant, ugh. Well I change my headset volume as needed :p
20:07:32 <fizzie> AnMaster: I guess I'll have to fetch my headphones and check.
20:08:06 <AnMaster> anyway can't record more now without disturbing ppl
20:08:38 <AnMaster> Deewiant, also if you want I could do your nick in Swedish instead (but not right now)
20:08:46 <AnMaster> ;P
20:09:01 <AnMaster> deeeviant (stressing the second syllable)
20:09:01 <Deewiant> AnMaster: I'll reiterate: "err, don't do that." :-P
20:09:11 <AnMaster> Deewiant, why not? got anything against Swedish?
20:09:12 <AnMaster> :(
20:09:21 <Deewiant> hmm, swedish pronunciation in my mind would stress the last syllable
20:09:25 <AnMaster> also: "fissi" ;P
20:09:41 <AnMaster> Deewiant, depends on dialect
20:09:57 <AnMaster> you could get a horribly strong "eeee" in some dialects
20:10:26 <fizzie> AnMaster: Well, you're not the only one who says it like that. It's not the "finnishy" way of doing it, but as far as I'm concerned there isn't a specific correct way anyway.
20:10:27 <AnMaster> Stockholmsa for example I think
20:11:09 <AnMaster> fizzie, Well in Swedish it would have been like s, and no "buzzing z" (no idea about the correcting English word there, would be "tonande z" in Swedish)
20:11:17 <AnMaster> except we don't have that sound
20:12:19 <AnMaster> fizzie, would that be better?
20:14:22 <fizzie> The most Finnishy way has a rather peculiar 'z', it's that "ts" sound. Maybe Deewiant can describe it better.
20:14:56 <fizzie> My wife uses something close to how you'd probably say "fis" when talking with her relatives.
20:15:03 <fizzie> (My own relatives just use the real name.)
20:15:05 <ais523> fizzie: German prononuces z like that too
20:15:46 <Deewiant> it's z in IPA for what it's worth
20:15:54 <AnMaster> hm
20:15:56 <Deewiant> or wait
20:15:58 <AnMaster> no idea about that z
20:15:58 <Deewiant> is it
20:16:33 <fizzie> IPA 'z' is "zoo", "rose"; so maybe not.
20:16:34 <Deewiant> no, it's not, it's t͡s or something
20:17:09 <Deewiant> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_alveolar_affricate
20:17:12 <Asztal> wikipedia said simply ts
20:18:29 <fizzie> Aw, the ts-ligature thing looks funnier than just "ts with an arc above".
20:22:07 <Deewiant> hmm, nobody's pronounced Asztal yet
20:23:18 <oerjan> "åstål"
20:23:39 <Asztal> the 'a' is the Hungarian a, which is like http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/0a/Open_back_rounded_vowel.ogg
20:23:54 <Deewiant> "åstål påstår att"
20:23:59 <Asztal> the stress is on the first syllable, and sz is pronounce like english s :)
20:24:40 <Asztal> as for the L, I think it's probably more like the Finnish one
20:24:54 <fizzie> "English s" really depends on whatever is around it; is it the IPA 's', like in "see" or "city" or "pass"?
20:25:21 <Asztal> ok, yes, that S.
20:25:42 <Asztal> I should have known better than to use English as a reference...
20:26:04 <Asztal> 'it sounds kind of like "ough"'
20:26:48 <Deewiant> hmm, that É’ is one weird (but cool) sound
20:28:03 <Deewiant> found in hungarian, persian, afrikaans and some random languages + the only correct way of pronouncing english
20:31:01 <fizzie> For some reason the term "received pronunciation" always makes me think it wants to say "English pronunciation as received from God", or something. Where does the name come from, anyway?
20:32:01 <ais523> political correctness, I think
20:32:52 <Deewiant> fizzie: The word received conveys its original meaning of accepted or approved – as in "received wisdom".[3]
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21:07:08 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | In Python.... x = not x    returns the opposite boolean value.... so infinity would have to have some sort of boolean value..
21:14:44 <oerjan> oh Dobela is an acronym, i thought it would be some polish word... is it that too?
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22:49:17 <psygnisfive> oklopol
22:55:00 -!- LinuS has quit ("Puzzi. Sì, parlo proprio con te. Puzzi.").
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23:03:06 <oklopol> psygnisfive
23:03:16 <psygnisfive> hey
23:03:36 <oklopol> hey
23:09:59 <psygnisfive> pm
23:11:29 <oklopol> am
23:15:21 <oerjan> fm
23:16:53 <oklopol> md
23:17:09 <oklopol> (best. game. ever.)
23:19:35 <oklopol> (oerjan: i think it's your turn...)
23:19:48 <oerjan> but i don't get what md is
23:20:01 <oklopol> ah
23:20:04 <oklopol> then i guess you lost.
23:20:08 <oerjan> darn.
23:20:22 <oklopol> mendelevium
23:20:32 <oerjan> that's - a game?
23:20:43 <oklopol> well yes
23:20:50 <oklopol> someone says something
23:21:01 <ais523> mendelevium is a chemical, isnt' it?
23:21:02 <oklopol> the next one in turn tries to find a category the thing said is an element of
23:21:12 <oklopol> and finds the "next element" in that category
23:21:17 <oklopol> or just another element if there's no order
23:21:22 <oerjan> aha
23:21:26 <oklopol> pm => am => fm => md
23:21:38 <oerjan> i was confused.  i thought you were saying md _was_ a game
23:21:43 <oklopol> ah
23:22:51 <oerjan> in which case
23:23:59 <oerjan> phd
23:26:52 <ehird> o
23:26:59 <oerjan> p
23:27:04 <ehird> ...
23:27:04 <ehird> o
23:27:20 <oerjan> mac
23:27:29 <ais523> oilskin coat
23:27:55 <oklopol> oerjan: yeah, that was quite an obvious one
23:28:10 <oerjan> which one?
23:28:13 <ais523> also, everyone knows that oko comes after o
23:28:14 <oklopol> phd
23:28:28 <oerjan> ais523: only in one category
23:28:38 <ais523> oko is a language too...
23:28:58 <oklopol> after oko...
23:29:04 <ais523> nopol
23:29:04 <oklopol> oko is an abbreviation for a finnish bank
23:29:19 <oerjan> disturbing
23:29:42 <oerjan> well, ook would be even more disturbing
23:30:02 <oklopol> phd would've been a bit hard to continue
23:30:12 <oerjan> yes i realized
23:30:20 <oerjan> but then so is oilskin coat
23:30:48 <oerjan> i couldn't think of any other 2-letter doctorates without cheating
23:31:44 <oerjan> hm i should have said mc instead of mac.  then we could have had car, cdr, ...
23:33:34 <oklopol> ...mac?
23:34:05 <oerjan> surname prefixes
23:35:13 <oerjan> just ask O'Sullivan over there
23:41:28 <ehird> lost the game
23:42:23 <oerjan> hm is there a game named "Lost"? probably.
23:42:33 <ehird> yep
23:42:35 <ehird> Lost: The Game
23:42:37 <ehird> based on the lost franchise
23:42:40 <ehird> saw it in a store a while ago
23:42:46 <ehird> nearly killed myself >:(
23:43:12 <oerjan> the question is, does it have a way to win? :D
23:43:44 <ehird> oerjan: its a board game i think
23:43:46 <ehird> and probably
23:43:48 <oerjan> that does seem sort of against the spirit
23:43:51 <ehird> but you want a game called The Game
23:43:54 <ehird> not a game called Lost
23:44:07 <oerjan> there was a video game as the first google hit
23:44:29 <oerjan> no, no, i was thinking: Lost, the game
23:44:38 <oerjan> where the comma is strictly optional
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23:46:26 <oerjan> Enki-Du
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23:52:09 <oklopol> okay
23:52:10 <oklopol> 01:27:12 oerjan: mac
23:52:11 <oklopol> 01:27:21 ais523: oilskin coat
23:52:14 <oklopol> i missed these two lines
23:52:20 <oklopol> everything is much clearer now.
23:53:14 <oerjan> it all makes sense if you trust the little green man
23:54:40 <oklopol> hmm, could you also say "green little man"?
23:55:08 <oerjan> quite possibly
23:55:25 <oklopol> somehow, that doesn't sound bad even though adjectives usually wanna be the last attributes
23:55:33 <oklopol> hmm
23:55:47 <oerjan> er they are both adjectives
23:56:06 <oklopol> actually probably because "X-ey little man" is quite common
23:56:10 <oklopol> funny little man
23:56:30 <oerjan> don't tell him he's X-ey.  he could get angry.
23:56:36 <oklopol> oerjan: yes, but, for instance the canonical example, "red big balloon" is definitely wrong
23:57:27 <oerjan> hm
23:58:18 <oklopol> sometimes adjectives just need to be in a certain order, determined by Magic
23:59:24 <oklopol> you know, the magic science is indisguishable from until psygnisfive tells us why that happens