00:07:15 <AnMaster> http://rafb.net/p/wYc8k789.html <-- from rc/funge's main.c
00:07:24 <AnMaster> proof that Riley is a bad programmer as well
00:07:33 <AnMaster> (learn to use "continue" in C -_-)
00:08:17 <ais523> wait... is that removing the program name from argv by comparing it against the name from a Version Management System?
00:08:20 <AnMaster> and he drops the max index he found when parsing arguments
00:08:38 <ais523> also, that strcpy without allocating memory is suspicious
00:08:58 <ais523> anyway, time to go home I think
00:09:03 <AnMaster> ais523, cfunge uses whatever getopt says is the last option
00:09:07 <pikhq> Additionally, why the fuck does he have argv and ArgV?
00:09:29 <AnMaster> and you don't want to see the compare stuff above
00:09:48 <ehird> what is wrong with that code...
00:09:54 <AnMaster> pikhq, I think -YS cause memory corruption in rc/funge
00:10:01 <ehird> well, it's hard to figure out what without any context, of course
00:10:08 <ehird> I think calling him a bad programmer is a bit rude.
00:10:26 <AnMaster> ehird, he trows away an index from command line parsing 3 lines above
00:10:43 <ehird> fine, fine, but i still think it was rude to say that
00:11:16 <AnMaster> oh --help works fine if followed by a program
00:11:25 <ehird> rc/funge ran fungot, didn't it?
00:11:25 <fungot> ehird: but mine is simpler, one moment. i still have doubts concerning the exact implications :) fnord/ fnord/ images/ fnord/ fnord
00:11:31 <ehird> he's obviously not a terrible programmer
00:11:35 <AnMaster> ehird, yes it did, but older verion
00:11:36 <ehird> if he can get a befunge-98 system to work.
00:11:48 <AnMaster> true. but he can't get command line parsing to work
00:11:59 <pikhq> And command line parsing is easy...
00:12:02 <ehird> maybe he has some stupid, obscure, and crap parts of code, but that doesn't mean he can't program
00:12:05 <pikhq> Especially with getopt (GNU or otherwise)
00:12:10 <AnMaster> $ ./funge -S ~/src/cfunge/trunk/mycology/sanity.bf
00:12:10 <AnMaster> 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 Exiting with return code = 0
00:12:13 <AnMaster> $ ./funge -S --help ~/src/cfunge/trunk/mycology/sanity.bf
00:12:13 <AnMaster> 0 0 1 1 2 2 3 3 4 4 5 5 6 6 7 7 8 8 9 9 Exiting with return code = 0
00:12:25 <AnMaster> he got a huge loop with strcmp
00:12:40 <ehird> I'd like to point out that command-line parsing was probably not the top thing on his mind.
00:12:45 <AnMaster> pikhq, Mike Riley, the author of this program
00:12:47 <ehird> It was likely an afterthought.
00:12:57 <pikhq> ehird: Command line parsing takes all of half an hour to do right.
00:13:00 <AnMaster> ehird, well even so, crashing on it is messy
00:13:10 <ehird> pikhq: I imagine he hacked something up in 5 minutes before releasing it.
00:13:20 <AnMaster> pikhq, no it was much faster, at least using getopt(), but even without it, it takes 1 minute
00:13:27 <pikhq> Indicative of a poor programmer.
00:13:35 <AnMaster> GOODG:O ODD :p uDs hpeuss h500 e
00:13:35 <AnMaster> GOODG:O OMD :p uMs hpeuss h1000 e
00:13:47 <ehird> pikhq: Where is your Befunge-98 system that can run an entire IRC bot using a bunch of fingerprints and not crash?
00:15:00 <AnMaster> one thing to note. is that while the v1 segfaults on it, it don't cause memory corruption on --YS
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00:15:32 <AnMaster> however --help still crashes it
00:16:06 <AnMaster> /home/arvid/funges/interpreters/rcfunge/mterm.c:23: warning: the `gets' function is dangerous and should not be used.
00:16:14 <AnMaster> I think that proves "bad programmer"
00:16:30 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | it's kinda trivial..
00:16:32 <ehird> a bad programmer would not be able to write rc/funge, stop being jerks
00:16:51 <AnMaster> #1 0x000000000040a2d4 in main (argc=2, argv=0x7fff674ca9d8, envp=0x7fff674ca9f0) at main.c:1334
00:16:51 <AnMaster> 1334 if (strcmp(argv[i],ProgName) == 0) f = 1;
00:17:16 <AnMaster> ehird, right, ehehehehe,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,
00:17:33 <ehird> Let me know when you're not being insensitive assholes to Mike Riley.
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00:18:26 <AnMaster> hrrm. I wonder why he loves Mike Riley so much :/
00:18:37 <AnMaster> considering he made that MKRY himself
00:19:11 <AnMaster> possibly someone else got same name
00:20:00 <mbishop> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Riley
00:20:30 <AnMaster> mbishop, don't think it is the same person
00:20:52 <AnMaster> mbishop, nor any of those on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Riley_(disambiguation)
00:22:42 <mbishop> What does the Rc stand for?
00:22:50 <mbishop> reminds me of those rosetta code implementations
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00:26:18 <ehird> AnMaster: I am totally a fanboy because I point out you're being a fuckwit by making personal attacks. Totally.
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00:26:30 <AnMaster> I didn't make any personal attack
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00:27:22 <ehird> You repeatedly called him a bad programmer. MKRY was just a light-hearted prod at his english style.
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05:06:20 <GregorR> My home page's color scheme is now automatically generated 8-D
05:13:16 <ab5tract> can you link me to that neural net again plz
05:13:42 <GregorR> http://codu.org/colormatch/
05:13:52 <GregorR> Also see http://codu.org/ 's fancy colors ^^
05:15:47 <ab5tract> GregorR next step a restful api for grok'ng the "present scheme"
05:16:22 <pikhq> It's actually getting not all that bad results...
05:16:48 <GregorR> I haven't seen any bad results. Some are a bit ... bright, but other than that :P
05:17:31 <psygnisfive> is anyone here good with music? like, recognizing pieces, styles, etc?
05:20:59 <psygnisfive> lament, can you do me a favor and listen to a brief bit of piano music and see if you recognize it?
05:22:52 <psygnisfive> ok lemme record it off into an mp3 for you
05:29:47 <psygnisfive> this is a horribly large file for nary a minutes worth of audio, sorry: http://www.wellnowwhat.net/transfers/dennett_piano.wav
05:33:47 <lament> psygnisfive: i don't think it's anything famous
05:34:28 <Asztal> Generated color scheme: #2E0A78, #85D70A, #F2CEBA is not particularly nice :)
05:34:41 <psygnisfive> i have music recognition resources that rely on note change directions
05:34:41 <lament> i don't think you'd find this piece anywhere.
05:34:43 <Asztal> but it's mostly pretty nice
05:34:50 <psygnisfive> oh no i think this one place would have it
05:35:01 <psygnisfive> its pretty good at recognizing random music
05:35:34 <lament> i'm not sure it was even ever published
05:35:57 <psygnisfive> all the music in this show was retrieved from free music archives
05:36:38 <psygnisfive> do you atleast have an idea of what genre, or composer?
05:36:43 <lament> it could have been a czerny study
05:37:28 <lament> genre: romantic, or imitation romantic (if it's recent)
05:37:30 <GregorR> Asztal: I've seen worse :P
05:38:05 <GregorR> Romantic era != romantic necessarily :P
05:38:15 <lament> psygnisfive: shostakovich was very very late romantic
05:38:30 <psygnisfive> i heard a shostakovich piece, ages ago, that reminded me of this
05:38:30 <lament> this is early, "normal" romantic
05:38:50 <psygnisfive> but then i looked up shostakovich and couldnt find anything
05:39:22 <lament> shostakovich is fucking amazing
05:39:33 <lament> this music is complete junk in comparison :)
05:39:40 <lament> but i think it's a study, not a real piece
05:40:33 <lament> it's pretty easy to play, you could learn it
05:41:32 <psygnisfive> and embodies a single, pure concept for me
05:41:40 <lament> i think it might be czerny
05:42:04 <psygnisfive> if it is, ill give you head whenever you want. :D
05:42:06 <lament> but that's an unlikely guess, just the best match i can think of
05:42:20 <lament> this is like a free lottery ticket :)
05:48:14 <psygnisfive> im listening to some of czerny and it sounds like it MIGHT be
05:48:56 <lament> at least it's not in any czerny i can find online
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05:55:25 <lament> but... listen to shostakovich instead :P
05:59:04 <psygnisfive> lots of people suggested it might be glass's etude 1 or so, but its not
06:00:17 <psygnisfive> its very glassy in its extreme use of high arpeggios and stranded low notes
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07:06:29 <oklopol> http://rafb.net/p/wYc8k789.html <<< if you find this hard to read, you're bad programmers
07:06:48 <oklopol> but it's clearly obfuscated
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07:26:22 <oklopol> (on second read i retract the obfuscation statement)
07:31:53 <oklopol> also doesn't ehird mock people all the time?
07:32:57 <oklopol> he /parted dramatically during my night when AnMaster was putting down Miker Riley's code
07:33:19 <oklopol> http://rafb.net/p/wYc8k789.html
07:33:33 <oklopol> not mike's code, but mike's ability to code
07:35:06 <oklopol> in my opinion the non crappy way to do that is to implement some sort of gc on top of c, write a list class and do a cut-in-half on the index of the program's name
07:35:24 <oklopol> but in actual c, i wouldn't say that's a bad way to do it
07:50:18 <fizzie> Well, the use of a fixed-width ArgV[50][80] and strcpy instead of an array of pointers and strdup or something (or just those original pointers) *is* reasonably ugly, but other than that I'm not sure what's so very wrong in the loop, or how it would be significantly improved with "continue", except that it'd remove one level of nesting.
07:51:36 <fizzie> That's a reasonably ^cho-able word.
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09:21:15 <AnMaster> fizzie, it was wrong because he knew this index 3 lines above when he parsed argumnets
09:21:50 <AnMaster> also it is the reason it crashes on "any option except -h and no program name"
09:22:15 <AnMaster> http://www.club.cc.cmu.edu/~ajo/funge/#Fungus <-- this looks fun
09:30:54 <oerjan> AnMaster: you've got something stuck between your teeth
09:34:40 <fungot> esotericsotericoterictericericricicc
09:34:55 <fungot> ````ccc```ccc``ccc`ccccccccc
09:36:10 <oklopol> i wanted to make REALLY INTENSE COUGH at some point, but couldn't really find a pure and beautiful way to add another continuation-related operation that made it tc
09:36:34 <oklopol> you're not doing tail recurzion
09:36:47 <oklopol> you call the program recursively
09:36:47 <fizzie> I think ais523 or someone did "too much prog" already, when I asked.
09:36:53 <oklopol> so the program stack grows
09:37:06 <fizzie> It's printed when the program length extends too much to the left.
09:37:29 <oklopol> AnMaster: different stack, that's the data stack, i mean the "call stack", kinda
09:37:57 <oklopol> although in underload it's not really a stack, but you know, it does what "the stack" usually does, holds things you'll need when returning from procedures
09:38:16 <fizzie> The ^ instruction is implemented by simply inserting the top-of-stack so that it's final character replaces the ^, and then moving the IP to the start of that string.
09:38:32 <oklopol> yes, but that's such an ugly practical way to explain it.
09:40:55 <oklopol> you need to use high-level concepts that only somewhat apply, and use technical terms like "kinda"
09:41:36 <oklopol> try { socket = new Socket( ia, port ); } catch( Exception e ) { System.out.println( e ); }
09:41:38 <oklopol> try { writer = new BufferedWriter( new OutputStreamWriter( socket.getOutputStream() ) ); } catch ( Exception e ) { System.out.println( e ); }
09:41:41 <oklopol> try { reader = new BufferedReader( new InputStreamReader( socket.getInputStream() ) ); } catch ( Exception e ) { System.out.println( e ); }
09:41:44 <oklopol> try { writer.write( "JOIN " + name + "\n" ); } catch ( Exception e ) { System.out.println( e ); }
09:41:47 <oklopol> try { writer.flush(); } catch ( Exception e ) { System.out.println( e ); }
09:42:42 <oklopol> i find exception handling bad programming style, should really wrap up the socket class into one that suppresses exceptions, or just crashes the whole program
09:43:53 <fizzie> Is there a particular reason that's not all in a single try { } block, except for the fact that now you can get some NullPointerExceptions from writer.write() and such?
09:44:45 <oklopol> after i stop doing try-catching separately for each line, i will have to start thinking what the optimal way to do that is
09:45:04 <oklopol> because i do not want to actually catch these exceptions, these blocks do not actually make any sense, so i don't want to have to think.
09:45:20 <fizzie> So it's either butt-ugly or most optimal, nothing in the middle?
09:45:27 <oklopol> they are there because java wants me to be clean.
09:45:40 <oklopol> fizzie: it needs to be perfect :)
09:45:41 <AnMaster> oklopol, a solution could be using some other language
09:45:52 <oklopol> fizzie: clean as in, handle exceptions
09:45:57 <fizzie> I wouldn't call that perfect, either.
09:46:08 <fizzie> A single catch block for all lines would be as "clean".
09:46:24 <oklopol> fizzie: syntactically cleaner, conceptually just the same
09:46:41 <AnMaster> um no, for the reason that you continue if you fail
09:47:59 <oklopol> java doesn't let me make socket suppress easily, and it doesn't let me not catch these, so i find it conceptually cleanest to surround everything with try-catches that can throw. i could, in this case, surround these with just one block
09:48:13 <oklopol> but if i added something in the middle that actually threw an exception i want to handle
09:48:29 <oklopol> then i would have to write the exception blocks around each other
09:48:50 <oklopol> and the exception handling for the socket would clutter my thinking
09:49:04 <fizzie> Personally I find it pretty ugly to do all the later lines when you already know they're just going to throw NullPointerExceptions when they refer to uninitialized cruft.
09:49:44 <oklopol> fizzie: that's thinking. you clearly don't see my point here, think i'm actually being rational? :P
09:49:55 <oklopol> thinking is not good. you shouldn't think about things that matter not.
09:49:57 <fizzie> I don't expect rationality from you, no.
09:50:15 <fizzie> Maybe you should go the other way and add "throws Throwable" to all your functions.
09:52:02 * oerjan suddenly gets "throws Smurfable" into his head
09:52:11 <fizzie> You can run all your Java code through CPP and use #define BEGIN throws Throwable {, then code your functions as void (foo) BEGIN heh(); heh(); }
09:52:48 <oklopol> then i'll need #define END }
09:52:58 <oklopol> but yeah, otherwise not such a bad idea
09:53:19 <fizzie> Maybe not; the mismatch between BEGIN and } can be an artistic statement on the class imbalance between the rich and the poor, or something.
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09:53:48 <oklopol> anyway it's not like i hate the fact java wants me to catch all exceptions, it's just when i'm writing the code in the first place, thinking about exceptions is so goddamn annoying i want to choke my computer.
09:54:06 <oklopol> fizzie: i don't like art :D
09:55:41 <oklopol> well, i guess what i want is #ifdef CLEANMODE \n #define BEGIN { \n #else #define BEGIN throws Throwable { \n #endif
09:56:59 <oklopol> but if i had to choose just one of those, it would definitely not be cleanmode, because i simply don't want to care about exceptions when writing the code, that's just clutter.
09:57:48 <oklopol> but, i guess i do like hating java, so it's not that bad.
09:58:11 <oklopol> some things i don't even like hating, they're the ones that really annoy me
09:59:27 <oklopol> plopmania, actually, he was here once, asked me how to run bootstrap_ on my bot, ran a hello world and left :P
09:59:59 <oerjan> hit and run programming
10:03:41 <oerjan> ^bf --[>-<-------]>++.----.+.+++.+.-.---.
10:03:57 <oerjan> ^bf --[>-<-------]>+.----.+.+++.+.-.---.
10:06:31 <oklopol> thutubot might be easy too
10:07:45 <oklopol> also opqrst isn't that much, but yeah i guess there are others
10:09:01 <oklopol> ^bf ++++++++++[>++++++++++<-]>.--.+.
10:09:14 <oklopol> that's probably far from an optimal 100
10:10:02 <oerjan> it may be optimal without wrapping
10:10:27 <oerjan> ^bf --[>-<+++++]>--.--.+.
10:13:13 <oklopol> ^bf +++[>+++[>+++++++++++<-]<-]>.--.+.
10:13:40 <oklopol> ^bf +++[>+++[>+++++++++++<-]<-]>>++++.--.+.
10:13:45 <oklopol> ^bf +++[>+++[>+++++++++++<-]<-]>>+.--.+.
10:15:02 <AnMaster> oerjan, what does that one mean?
10:15:43 <AnMaster> fizzie, also what do you think about this: http://www.club.cc.cmu.edu/~ajo/funge/#Fungus
10:16:02 <oklopol> ^bf +++++[>+++[>+++[>++<-]>+<<-]<-]>>>+++++.--.+.
10:16:17 <AnMaster> oklopol, are you anti-golfing?
10:16:37 <oklopol> i'm trying to convert math expressions to bf.
10:16:38 <oerjan> was supposed to be a raised eyebrow
10:17:54 <fungot> oklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopolok ...too much output!
10:19:14 <thutubot> oklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopoloklopol ...too much output!
10:19:29 <oklopol> ^bf >>++>>++++[<<[-<++>>+<]>[-<+>]>>-]<<[-[>++++++<-]]>++++.
10:19:31 <AnMaster> fungot seems to be a lot faster
10:19:34 <fungot> AnMaster: how's he do that
10:19:56 <oklopol> ^bf >>++>>++++[<<[-<++>>+<]>[-<+>]>-]<<[-[>++++++<-]]>++++.
10:20:01 <AnMaster> fungot, by running on cfunge I guess. However referring to yourself using "he" is strange
10:20:01 <fungot> AnMaster: there are certain " linkers" these days. send the tourists to go a single day without scheme, you wouldn't need to be
10:20:18 <oklopol> ^bf >>++>>++++[<<[-<++>>+<]>[-<+>]>-]<<[>++++++<-]>++++.
10:20:44 <oerjan> ^ul ((pol)~^(fok)~^(kok)~^)(~(oklo)~*S::a~*)~^
10:21:14 <oerjan> ^ul ((pol)~^(fok)~^(kok)~^)(~(oklo)~*S::a~*):a~*~^
10:22:41 <oklopol> ^bf >++>++++[<[-<++>]<[->+<]>>-]<[->++++++<]>++++.
10:23:06 <oklopol> ^bf >++>+++[<[-<++>]<[->+<]>>-]<[->++++++<]>++++.
10:23:12 <oklopol> ^bf >++>+++[<[-<++>]<[->+<]>>-]<[->++++++<]>++++.--.+.
10:27:44 <fizzie> Added some real spaghetti Befunge code to manage the ignore list; although it still doesn't actually ignore anything.
10:28:23 <fungot> foo baz fizzie oerjan!!!11
10:29:02 <fizzie> Unlike the command list, I bothered to write that bit which lets me remove items from the middle of the list.
10:29:49 <fizzie> Rather messy code: http://zem.fi/~fis/ignore.txt
10:30:12 <AnMaster> <AnMaster> fizzie, also what do you think about this: http://www.club.cc.cmu.edu/~ajo/funge/#Fungus
10:30:19 <fizzie> I'm not quite sure whether to make ^ignore an owner-only command here.
10:33:06 <fizzie> Well, you people might want to have some way of making fungot go quiet even if I'm not here.
10:33:07 <fungot> fizzie: c-a conflicts with emacs and have a look
10:33:48 <AnMaster> fizzie, well, what about someone abusing it?
10:35:33 <AnMaster> if someone would ever write a lint for funge I know the perfect name: flint
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10:36:39 <fizzie> I rather doubt that would be very much fun for anyone, but I guess I could make it owner-only. Or I could just make the ^ignore command available for ignored people too.
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10:44:00 <oklopol> err so you can revenge? :P
10:47:21 <fizzie> So you can unignore yourself.
10:47:54 <fizzie> Maybe I underestimate how much fun you could get out of that.
10:48:05 <fizzie> Should be owner-only now, unless I screwed it up.
10:49:10 <oklopol> "make the ^ignore command available for ignored people too" does sound more like letting people revenge than letting the unignore themselves, if you don't know ^ignore also unignores
10:49:45 <AnMaster> fizzie, added ignore for thutubot?
10:49:46 <oklopol> actually not exactly if it's already allowed for everyone
10:49:48 <fizzie> Owner-only, yes, and it doesn't really do anything, except manipulates that list.
10:50:11 <fizzie> The actual ignoring part does not happen yet.
10:50:46 <oklopol> mutable list? that's so cool
10:51:03 <fizzie> oklopol: Did you check out the implementation: http://zem.fi/~fis/ignore.txt
10:51:30 <oklopol> fizzie: i can't exactly read befunge anyway; i've only written one program in it, and i haven't read even one program in it
10:51:35 <AnMaster> fizzie, run that graph program of yours
10:52:44 <fizzie> (6,1) has the "current output length" value.
10:52:55 <oklopol> "derongi toN" :D god i love s0gnirts
10:53:08 <fizzie> So 61g:c+61p3P appends 12 characters of output.
10:53:08 <oklopol> (the plural suffix is a prefix for gnirts right?)
10:53:26 <AnMaster> oklopol, um it is string backwards
10:53:26 <oklopol> AnMaster: no, i can't read malbolge
10:53:35 <fizzie> I've seen people write it "gnirtses".
10:53:43 <oklopol> AnMaster: yes that's the joke
10:53:44 <AnMaster> fizzie, yeah I end up doing that
10:53:44 <fizzie> But I guess that's a bit boring.
10:54:59 <AnMaster> oh and that fungus use elf for file format
10:55:15 <fizzie> http://www.cis.hut.fi/htkallas/ignore.png
10:55:15 <AnMaster> so readelf works on it, though it gives strange values
10:56:09 <AnMaster> fizzie, that graph seems to be missing parts?
10:56:21 <oklopol> desrever si gnirts eht nehw xiferp a semoceb xiffus larulp eht si ekoj eht
10:57:02 <fizzie> The others are not "real instructions", it's implied by the edges.
10:57:48 <AnMaster> fizzie, why does it quit in various places?
10:57:58 <fizzie> Because I had to add something there to prevent wrapping.
10:58:09 <fizzie> Those go outside the ignore.txt parts to other areas of fungot.
10:58:09 <fungot> fizzie: if you write an alternative implementation of syntax-case
10:59:14 <fizzie> There are some silly parts, like the node with only a "0" in it and true/false edges leading out.
10:59:20 <fizzie> It will always take the 'false' edge.
10:59:22 <AnMaster> fizzie, it got three exit points?
11:00:43 <AnMaster> as in Content-addressable memory
11:00:58 <AnMaster> would actually be searching inside the interpreter
11:01:05 <fizzie> Yes, it's got three @ nodes, which is pretty strange, given that there are only two @s in the program.
11:01:09 <AnMaster> fizzie, or would that be cheating?
11:02:45 <fizzie> Oh, right: it has three separate @ nodes, because that one @ is entered both from the left side and from bottom; it won't merge those into same node. Oh-well, a minor issue.
11:03:43 <fizzie> And I guess it might be a bit un-Befungeish to move that sort of stuff into the interpreter. I have some pangs of conscience even now for using STRN so much.
11:04:24 <AnMaster> fizzie, so if I made a fingerprint for it, you wouldn't use it?
11:04:45 <fizzie> I'm not sure. I might not use it.
11:04:55 <fizzie> On the other hand I'm pretty lazy.
11:21:19 <fizzie> There's a slight bug in cfunge's REXP.
11:22:42 <fizzie> If you specify the REG_NOSUB flag, the 'regexec' function ignores the nmatch and pmatch arguments, and since the 'matches' array is not initialized to be empty, it pushes 128 empty strings on stack.
11:24:15 <fizzie> "PXER"4($$0"oof"4C0"oof"0E.a,@ prints out 128; it should (arguably) print 0.
11:27:38 <AnMaster> fizzie, so lets see what you meant...
11:28:25 <AnMaster> "is not initialized" <-- valgrind doesn't complain
11:28:40 <fizzie> Well, is not initialized to be empty.
11:28:56 <fizzie> Obviously it's initialized to zeroes, since it's a static thing.
11:29:31 <fizzie> But your push_results is testing for rm_so != -1.
11:29:59 <fizzie> Or something like that, anyway; haven't looked at it closely enough, but it does push 128 strings in there.
11:30:23 <fizzie> My regexec man page says it completely ignores nmatch/pmatch with NOSUB.
11:30:40 <AnMaster> fizzie, however it may take a few minutes to fix since I don't remember the API
11:30:53 <AnMaster> got to re-read the man page first
11:31:38 <fizzie> Well, I did work-around it already. Actually I'm not quite sure what REXP's "E" *should* do when the expression uses NOSUB; either push a single zero, or alternatively push nothing.
11:32:11 <AnMaster> well it shouldn't be 128 strings
11:32:49 * AnMaster adds a static bool compiled_nosub
11:33:19 <AnMaster> fizzie, tell me what it should do instead :)
11:34:24 <fizzie> I'm not sure. If you just look at the REXP doc in rcfunge manual, it says "E leaves the results of the match as a series of 0gnirts strings. Each string representing the matched portion of a substring. Top of stack will have the count of these 0gnirts strings." in which case the most logical thing would be to push a zero count.
11:34:51 <AnMaster> fizzie, what does rc/funge does on NOSUB?
11:35:41 <fizzie> AnMaster: Uh... pushes 100 empty strings plus the number 100, I think.
11:35:57 <AnMaster> well that is because it has 100 static matches
11:35:57 <fizzie> It has a very similar implementation to yours, at least on a quick glance.
11:36:10 <AnMaster> fizzie, well iirc rc/funge is per-ip compiled
11:37:20 <AnMaster> 156 compiled_nosub = (flags & FUNGE_REG_NOSUB);
11:37:20 <AnMaster> (gdb) print (flags & FUNGE_REG_NOSUB)
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11:38:00 <AnMaster> (gdb) print (flags & FUNGE_REG_NOSUB) == true
11:38:00 <AnMaster> (gdb) print (flags & FUNGE_REG_NOSUB) == false
11:38:05 <optbot> fizzie: We can't prove two things to be the same, sure.
11:38:07 <AnMaster> what the heck was going on there
11:39:00 <optbot> fungot: http://pastebin.ca/932888
11:39:07 <fizzie> No more fancy-loops. :/
11:40:05 <AnMaster> fizzie, um I get "BAD: TOS was not 1" from Mike's rexp.f98
11:40:55 <AnMaster> it doesn't say so if I let it push 128 strings instead
11:41:41 <oklopol> fizzie: does java have a join of some sort?
11:42:15 <AnMaster> oklopol, java.too.long.namespace.name.os.system.execte("ghci")?
11:42:42 <fizzie> AnMaster: rexp.f98 seems to compile all regexps with flags==1, so any change in behaviour that affects only REG_NOSUB'd things shouldn't affect it.
11:43:57 <fizzie> oklopol: What, to concatenate strings?
11:45:35 <fizzie> My first instinct for string-joining would just be StringBuilder sb = new StringBuilder(); for (String s : collection) sb.append(s); sb.toString(); which looks very Javay. Waiting for further instructions.
11:46:36 <AnMaster> fizzie, either I get your test program working or I get rexp.f98 working
11:46:52 <AnMaster> are you sure your test program is actually correct?
11:46:57 <oklopol> yeah that works. it's just that's a bit ugly; i'll probably inherit a joinable container from arraylist then...
11:47:23 <fizzie> oklopol: It's more than a bit ugly, but I don't think the built-in containers (or String class) has any very helpful methods.
11:48:16 <oklopol> god i wish java had less support for all that io shit, and more algorithmical support i would actually have use for
11:48:27 <fizzie> AnMaster: Of course not, but really, if you change things so that the behaviour differs only when the C command has the NOSUB flag, I don't see how it could alter rexp.f98 results at all.
11:48:53 <AnMaster> fizzie, well I suspect your program doesn't set NOSUB, I'm not sure
11:48:59 <oklopol> i don't know what the standard classes contain exactly, the list is too long to read
11:49:09 <oklopol> but most of it seems quite useless
11:49:11 <fizzie> I don't see how 4C *wouldn't*.
11:49:31 <oklopol> perhaps i'll use a stringbuilder for now, i guess i just need this one join.
11:49:40 <AnMaster> I was confusing different types of flags
11:49:46 <AnMaster> as in funge flags and system flags
11:50:00 <oklopol> (i do like the idea of SequenceJoinerFactory though)
11:50:29 <fizzie> oklopol: They've got String.split(String regex), that's at least something.
11:50:39 <oklopol> yeah, that was a nice addition
11:52:46 <fizzie> Should save those ignores in the state-file, currently they're non-persistent.
11:52:54 <AnMaster> fizzie, fix (push a single 0) pushed
11:53:45 <AnMaster> so you can update your copy if you want
11:54:07 <AnMaster> now I hope to get around to making that release soonj
11:54:34 <fizzie> Okay. I'll try to remember to maybe clean out my workaround (not use NOSUB and just discard the useless match-string) when I next update. Although then it won't run correctly on rc/funge with ignores.
11:55:06 <AnMaster> fizzie, well report a bug to rc/funge author
11:56:49 <fizzie> Don't know about that.
12:00:17 <fizzie> I think fungot should work just fine even if "PXER"4( reflects, it just won't process the ignores.
12:00:18 <fungot> fizzie: huh. people are evil. blogs cause conservative canadian governments. i know 2. that's obvious and you did refer to a certain class of bad things/ alone
12:00:46 <fizzie> fungot: You're starting to sound like a paranoid person, you know.
12:02:04 <fungot> AnMaster: but i wanna try debian some day... of course. it's pure space opera. but as i got out
12:03:30 <fizzie> fungot: You're actually running in a Debian system right now.
12:03:30 <fungot> fizzie: i'm familiar with
12:03:39 <fizzie> fungot: Well, I guess you would be.
12:03:40 <fungot> fizzie: that's how i managed it, and the oft-cited horror film fnord a wonderful life_, are noteworthy examples of works accidentally committed to the festive mode.
12:04:26 <AnMaster> fizzie, how would you interpret THAT?
12:04:42 <fizzie> I don't really know; I guess it got all confused.
12:05:46 <fizzie> Though "fnord a wonderful life" does sound like it'd be a quite scary film.
12:08:53 <oklopol> pointers for befunge maybe?
12:10:18 <oklopol> (and that was a joke, AnMaster :P stupidity is not my only thing, i also make jokes!)
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12:16:30 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | base-3 is actually fairly feasible... -1, 0, 1 corresponding to the polarity of the volts..
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12:22:40 <AnMaster> fizzie, I'm preparing 0.3.3 release
13:18:31 <fizzie> Come to think of it, I could've done a lot simpler ignoration thing by simply using a single ignore regex instead of a list of them; and then I wouldn't need to compile all those regexs every time someone speaks to the bot.
13:55:13 <fizzie> ^ignore ^(optbot|thutubot)!
13:57:13 <fizzie> Where did it get "112" from? I don't think translate_return_C should be even capable of giving out that number.
13:57:58 <fizzie> There must be a bug in my code.
13:58:22 <fizzie> Oh, right, it doesn't have REXP loaded because that's done in the initialization now.
13:58:28 <fizzie> ^raw QUIT :let's just restart
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13:59:06 <fizzie> ^ignore ^(optbot|thutubot)!
13:59:13 <fungot> fizzie: this new jpeg after ' jpegtran -rotate 270' and switching 1600/ 1200 in gs invocation is actually pretty nice.
13:59:18 <fungot> H7zzi=: its working over here. :-p so, i load the usb module.
13:59:45 <fizzie> Interesting errors, though.
13:59:46 <fungot> fizzie: bucket sort... in bancstar.
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14:00:11 <fizzie> Back to the drawing-board with it.
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14:16:12 <fizzie> ^ignore ^(optbot|thutubot)!
14:16:12 <optbot> fizzie: I can't decide if I should make 0x00 short for current outfile, 0x01 current infile, 0x02 stdout, 0x03 stdin
14:16:22 <fizzie> Now it should be okay.
14:16:28 <fizzie> fungot: Do you feel fine?
14:16:28 <fungot> fizzie: tell me when you find it. i doubt the basic design on paper in the bus.
14:16:45 <fizzie> It also seems to be doing the ignoration.
14:18:25 <fizzie> ^def help ul (^<lang> <code>; ^def <command> <lang> <code>; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^bool)S
14:19:19 <fizzie> Decided to do the ^help command that way for easier modification. Hopefully no-one will override it with anything silly.
14:22:03 <fungot> AnMaster: or someone did
14:22:06 <fungot> echo reverb rev rot13 rev2 fib wc ul cho choo pow2 source help
14:22:14 <optbot> AnMaster: but that's a result of very little operator overloading - most operators do a very specific thing.
14:46:33 <AnMaster> fizzie, cfunge 0.3.3 is released
14:49:46 <fizzie> I suppose there's not much difference between releases and bzr-pulled copies?
14:50:31 <AnMaster> fizzie, not really, there were some typo fixes, updated version number, updated changelog
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15:10:57 <ehird> make ^ignore and ^unignore available to all unignored people
15:11:06 <ehird> but let you only ignore one person every 5 minutes
15:11:17 <ehird> impossible to take over ze world, but nicely anarchistic
15:12:20 <fizzie> Well, I took the lazy way and just added a single owner-configurable ignoramation regex.
15:12:33 <ehird> fizzie: what about when you are away and co2games comes here ;-P
15:13:56 <optbot> ehird: then I was told you can't use input
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15:15:19 <fizzie> Bot-loop preventamation was, I think, the whole point of ignorey.
15:15:31 <ehird> fizzie: But optbot/fungot conversations are wonderful
15:15:31 <optbot> ehird: i assume you understand i'm just representing a part of the main array python-tsyle?
15:15:32 <fungot> ehird: gauche now supports wrights matcher, right sarahbot? :p). can i do
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15:16:27 <optbot> optbot_feels_rej: Bullshit
15:16:35 <optbot> optbot_feels_rej: but I think that's kind of cheating :P
15:16:39 <fungot> optbot_feels_rej: code got borken somewhere. melody of oblivion?
15:16:39 <optbot> optbot_feels_rej: If you can mark a function as, say, never being jumped into.
15:16:40 <optbot> fungot: at least it proves you aren't the first one to make that mistake
15:16:45 <optbot> optbot_feels_rej: HQ9+ is just as fully functional; it's been implemented
15:16:48 <optbot> optbot_feels_rej: my monitor plugs into my USB port...
15:17:00 <optbot> optbot_feels_rej: afternoon.
15:17:00 <optbot> fungot: "x", [[:apply, ["x", "y"], []]]]]
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17:03:39 <ehird> http://www-cs-faculty.stanford.edu/~knuth/news08.html NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
17:04:08 <ehird> [[Instead of writing personal checks, I'll write personal certificates of deposit to each awardee's account at the Bank of San Serriffe, which is an offshore institution that has branches in Blefuscu and Elbonia on the planet Pincus.]]
17:09:15 <GregorR> Hahaha, "It turns out that only 9 of the first 275 checks that I've sent out since the beginning of 2006 have actually been cashed. The others have apparently been cached."
17:09:45 <AnMaster> GregorR, what do you get for pointing out a typo on that page ;)
17:10:06 <AnMaster> ehird, remember I'm not a native speaker
17:10:07 <ehird> Note to self: Check for AnMaster before linking to any joke.
17:10:15 <GregorR> ehird: http://codu.org/ is now themed by my color matcher!
17:10:38 <ehird> GregorR: when you first said that i thought you meant each load
17:10:47 <ehird> A DIRTY COMMUNIST LIEFJDSKF
17:10:58 <GregorR> Uh, it is done each load, it's just cached in a cookie.
17:11:05 <GregorR> If you want to refresh it just use the menu.
17:11:11 <ehird> MAKE IT CHANGE EACH TIME
17:11:22 <GregorR> I didn't want the theme to change as you navigated the page :P
17:11:27 <AnMaster> GregorR, is that box different in colour at the top and the bottom?
17:11:35 <AnMaster> also it change on each load for me
17:11:35 <GregorR> AnMaster: Yeah, it has a gradient.
17:11:37 <ehird> AnMaster: Welcome to 1997
17:11:39 <ehird> it's called a GRADIENT
17:11:43 <ehird> also, welcome to paranoia
17:11:43 <GregorR> AnMaster: You must have cookies disabled.
17:12:02 <AnMaster> ehird, yes I just didn't remember the English word........
17:12:13 <ehird> GregorR: remove the cookies
17:12:20 <GregorR> People who don't have cookies enabled will have a much more ... colorful experience on this site :P
17:12:35 <AnMaster> GregorR, and it doesn't work with javascript off ;P
17:13:01 <ehird> i've given up complaining because you have a vocabulary of 30 things, 29 of which are annoying.
17:13:05 <ehird> i haven't seen the 30th in person yet.
17:13:38 <AnMaster> ehird, and I thank you for your help with funge recently
17:14:01 <ehird> AnMaster: which consists of "repeating fizzie's and ais523's lines because you didn't listen the first time"?
17:15:36 <AnMaster> well the idea about not using linked-list style hash
17:15:51 <GregorR> AnMaster: With JS off it will now give a good default theme, rather than drab white-on-black.
17:16:00 <GregorR> And by "now" I mean "when I upload it" :P
17:16:10 <AnMaster> GregorR, um it gave me black on black?
17:16:23 <GregorR> <GregorR> And by "now" I mean "when I upload it" :P
17:16:40 <AnMaster> GregorR, oh I thought you meant *white box* on black page
17:17:15 <AnMaster> "No JavaScript? Click here to disable the JavaScript menu."
17:17:17 <ehird> GregorR: 5 amelican moneys for no cookie
17:17:31 <ehird> GregorR: I will kill you if you don't then
17:17:43 <GregorR> AnMaster: ORLY? I haven't looked at that in a long time :P
17:18:19 <AnMaster> well I usually have a noscript exception for you site, because of your interesting projects
17:18:50 <ehird> GregorR: ok, here's my idea:
17:18:56 <AnMaster> GregorR, how goes jsmips then?
17:19:06 <GregorR> AnMaster: Haven't updated it in a while.
17:19:18 <ehird> GregorR: all non-main page pages cache in cookie
17:19:20 <ehird> but the main page doesn't
17:19:30 <AnMaster> ehird, well you asked me to turn on cookies/javascripts lots of times, so why can't I ask you to turn it *OFF* for once :P
17:20:03 <ehird> 'cuz having them off is silly
17:20:22 <GregorR> AnMaster: Hmmmm, seems that somethings wonky about the PHP on this server ...
17:20:30 <ehird> GregorR: http://codu.org/dcvogllmrcmcdp.ogg this would be a good OS startup sound
17:20:34 <ehird> if it made you listen to it all before starting
17:21:32 <ehird> AnMaster: that's because you suck
17:21:57 <AnMaster> ehird, well your niceness yesterday didn't last that long. :P
17:22:05 <ehird> you started being annoying again
17:22:15 <AnMaster> ehird, hey wrong, *you* started ;P
17:22:27 <ehird> /ignore AnMaster. Problem solved.
17:23:04 <ehird> GregorR: add a 'generate two non-matches'
17:23:39 <AnMaster> cookie stored option, that lets you select "random every time"
17:24:11 <AnMaster> GregorR, what do you think about that way?
17:26:13 <ehird> GregorR: how does nojs.php even work?
17:26:19 <ehird> some weird transformation?
17:26:40 <GregorR> AnMaster: Yeah, that'd probably work *shrugs*
17:26:51 <ehird> GregorR: also, why not just use a <noscript> tag :P
17:26:55 <GregorR> AnMaster: I just don't really want people to be able to mega-ugly my site with a cookie :P
17:27:30 <AnMaster> GregorR, what if it happens to be ugly random that get fixed currently? So far all randomly generated ones seems quite ok
17:27:34 <GregorR> AnMaster: Mind you, they could set their colorscheme cookie to something horrible, but at least that takes some skill. Being able to click "Make my page give you seizures" would be a bit worse :)
17:27:51 <ehird> on the contrary, every page should be able to give you seizures.
17:27:53 <AnMaster> GregorR, "always random match"
17:28:19 <GregorR> Just that having the matches change every time you click a link = blech.
17:28:29 <AnMaster> GregorR, didn't find it that bad
17:28:51 <oerjan> <GregorR> AnMaster: I just don't really want people to be able to mega-ugly my site with a cookie :P
17:29:07 <oerjan> hey what if i hack the cookie to make it pink on green? :D
17:29:18 <AnMaster> oerjan, "<GregorR> AnMaster: Mind you, they could set their colorscheme cookie to something horrible, but at least that takes some skill. Being able to click "Make my page give you seizures" would be a bit worse :)"
17:29:21 <oerjan> (not that i know how to do that, but still...)
17:30:20 <oerjan> AnMaster: you cannot expect me to read to the bottom of the screen before commenting. then i would have forgotten to comment...
17:30:45 <oerjan> short attention spans FTW
17:32:50 <oerjan> also i did find an orange/green combination that the match test accepted...
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17:39:51 <oerjan> 1. orange 2. green, it wasn't too picky
17:40:01 <oerjan> however it only accepted in that order
17:41:15 <ehird> oerjan: it's non-symmetrically
17:49:19 <oerjan> #907020 #FF9040 or thereabouts
17:50:46 <AnMaster> logically colour matching is really symmetric but it could be hard to implement with that neural network thingy
17:51:55 <GregorR> I gave it a symmetrical data set and hoped for the best.
17:51:59 <GregorR> Also, orange and green do go together :P
17:52:12 <AnMaster> GregorR, depends on what exact shades
17:52:24 <oerjan> some coordinate change should be able to identify symmetrical cases
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17:53:12 <asiekierka> Should i make a ternary programming language?
17:53:20 <AnMaster> GregorR, a bug I think, the colour match page itself got light text colour and dark bg
17:53:30 <AnMaster> GregorR, however in the colour picker that is used too on white bg
17:53:40 <AnMaster> GregorR, result: unreadable text in colour picker
17:53:53 <AnMaster> says "Generated color scheme: #0B1613, #79F9C5, #5DCC3A" at the bottom of the page
17:54:24 <AnMaster> GregorR, that just fails terribly in colour picking
17:55:38 <oerjan> asiekierka: ternary should be trits, not bits
17:56:29 <asiekierka> So that basically means a negative value, a zero value, and a positive value
17:56:34 <oerjan> 9 trits gives -19683 to 19683
17:57:32 <oerjan> hm with -1,0,1 trits? don't know
17:57:47 <asiekierka> But why should i use trits for memory?
17:58:00 <asiekierka> Basically, trits and some special chars (for loops) are the only way to output stuff
17:58:20 <asiekierka> You separate commands with | or a spaced
17:58:47 <asiekierka> This program will decrase the value at the current position until it's <0
17:59:05 <AnMaster> GregorR, so see the colour picker issue?
17:59:45 <asiekierka> Basically, the "," command separator is "normal"
18:00:08 <asiekierka> "." command separator means "move using <cell> and put input there"
18:00:26 <asiekierka> ":" command separator means "output this value and move using <cell>"
18:00:49 <asiekierka> Yes, the separators are tri-state, therefore they can be described as trits too
18:00:50 <AnMaster> asiekierka, you plan to implement this yourself I hope?
18:01:06 <asiekierka> It's easy to make a TritLang->BF converter
18:01:26 <AnMaster> asiekierka, sure no one has done some ternary funge before?
18:02:02 <oerjan> there is ternary INTERCAL
18:02:33 <AnMaster> Results 1 - 10 of about 357 for ternary brainfuck. (0.32 seconds)
18:02:45 <asiekierka> And you can move AND do i/o in one command
18:02:55 <oerjan> for memory values, brainfuck really has no actual base, just a range of values
18:03:30 <asiekierka> I am thinking about writing values as "-", "=", and "+", respectively for -1, 0 and 1.
18:03:45 <asiekierka> So you could do, instead of -1,-1, "-,-"
18:04:13 <asiekierka> and the other stuff can be done with BF algo's already
18:04:44 <AnMaster> <oerjan> hm with -1,0,1 trits? don't know <asiekierka> Trits there would be 0, 1, 2 <-- Balanced ternary....
18:05:08 <AnMaster> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Balanced_ternary
18:05:24 <oerjan> AnMaster: it's in the topic really
18:05:25 <AnMaster> asiekierka, so it is ternary, balanced ternary to be specific
18:05:36 <asiekierka> And basically it's close to a ternary BF
18:06:10 <AnMaster> asiekierka, would be more interesting to base it on boolfuck
18:06:50 <asiekierka> But it's BoolF**k with negative values, so what's the point
18:07:39 <AnMaster> asiekierka, you said it was so close to brainfuck anyway?
18:07:49 <AnMaster> and boolfuck is really really close to brainfuck
18:08:08 <asiekierka> and TritF**k is really close to BoolF**k
18:08:18 <AnMaster> you can convert brainfuck to boolfuck with simple text replacement
18:08:31 <AnMaster> asiekierka, your would be as close to brainfuck wouldn't it?
18:08:41 <GregorR> For some reason "tritfuck" sounds far dirtier than "boolfuck"
18:08:58 <asiekierka> That's the second reason i'm scrapping it
18:08:59 <AnMaster> GregorR, what did you think about the colour issue I mentioned?
18:09:22 <asiekierka> and there's already ten thousand BF deriatives
18:09:40 <GregorR> AnMaster: I have no idea what you mean :P
18:09:59 <GregorR> Haven't found a fix since I didn't write the picker.
18:10:16 <AnMaster> GregorR, use a different class in css?
18:12:25 <GregorR> AnMaster: Maybe your browser is caching the .css file?
18:12:42 <GregorR> AnMaster: Load http://codu.org/colormatch/js_color_picker_v2.css manually
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18:13:36 <AnMaster> GregorR, it thinks #FFFFFF doesn't match #FFFFFF
18:13:56 <GregorR> AnMaster: It doesn't think that identical colors match, and I believe the reason is because very close colors /don't/ match.
18:14:09 <GregorR> AnMaster: And it's difficult to special-case in a neural net :P
18:14:19 <AnMaster> GregorR, also it fails to display #000000 as light grey!?
18:14:25 <AnMaster> for page "Generated color scheme: #2F151C, #C2B12D, #E2FA9C"
18:14:40 <AnMaster> colour 1 #FFFFFF, colour 2 #000000
18:15:15 <GregorR> I blame the fact that JavaScript is weird sometimes :P
18:15:26 <AnMaster> basically for a while black had same colour as the frame around the colours
18:16:30 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | cxuriuous.
18:17:24 <oerjan> cxuriusity killed the cxat
18:18:32 <GregorR> I'm cxuriuous about where that quote came from.
18:18:50 <GregorR> Hm, *GRK* is a transposition of my initials, that's weird :P
18:18:58 <GregorR> I mean, uh, dead people don't talk.
18:19:10 <optbot> lament: IPC, internet, etc
18:20:12 <ehird> 08.01.27:08:31:19 <ehird> cxuriuous
18:20:14 <ehird> there be your source
18:20:31 <ehird> 08:30:13 <useless_bot> I'm a silly bot, and I _love_ cheese!
18:20:31 <ehird> 08:30:38 --- part: useless_bot left #esoteric
18:20:32 <ehird> 08:30:56 <ehird> let me guess
18:20:32 <ehird> 08:31:02 <ehird> asiekerka or whoever did that
18:20:32 <ehird> 08:31:15 <ehird> wait, no
18:20:32 <ehird> 08:31:15 <ehird> .fi
18:20:34 <ehird> 08:31:19 <ehird> cxuriuous
18:24:05 <GregorR> So, anybody else gonna use my autoschemer? ^^
18:24:12 <GregorR> All F/OSS! Available for any web site! :)
18:25:43 <ehird> GregorR: yes, i will
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19:25:46 <oklopol> i haven't been on the computer for ages, and my bots are always useful
19:27:47 <ehird> that was from the logs
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20:22:07 <oklopol> jix: whatever you're doing, that's not the optimal way
20:22:20 <oklopol> tell me what you're doing and i shall tell you a better one
20:22:40 <jix> i just lost the game
20:23:15 <oklopol> jix: how about winning it?
20:23:29 <jix> but you can't tell me how to win it
20:23:45 <oklopol> yeah, basically you take seven eggs, and make an omelet
20:23:55 <oklopol> then you drive far away from your mortal home
20:24:08 <oklopol> you'll never think about that game again.
20:24:29 <jix> that won't work
20:24:43 <oklopol> (while it's not written in the rules, a little known fact is you win the game if you manage to die before losing in it)
20:25:01 <ais523> oklopol: I thought you won the Game if you died during the grace period after losing
20:25:04 <ais523> i.e. died thinking about it
20:25:25 <ehird> just make a basilisk image that says THE GAME
20:25:44 <ais523> also, there's a variant rule that you win if you get a particular famous person to publically acknowledge that the Game exists
20:25:47 <oklopol> ais523: i was thinking more like, you win if you've forgotten it well enough that someone telling you they lost doesn't make you remember the game anymore
20:25:54 <ais523> normally the Queen of England is the named person
20:26:23 <oklopol> that would fit the rules better, that famous-person thing may be a fun rule, but it doesn't make much sense
20:27:09 <ehird> you win the game if you don't lose it
20:32:21 <ais523> no, that's only slightly zen
20:32:26 <ais523> very zen would be you win the game if fish
20:33:04 <ehird> that's not zen, that's dada.
20:33:38 <ehird> i found a way to defeat the game
20:33:44 <ehird> ais523: oklopol jix like REALLY
20:34:44 <ehird> Here are the rules to Not the Game:
20:34:45 <ehird> 1. You can start playing or stop playing Not the Game by announcing you do.
20:34:45 <ehird> 2. If you are playing Not the Game, you are not playing The Game.
20:34:48 <ehird> I start playing Not the Game.
20:34:56 <ehird> TASTE SOME OF YOUR OWN MEDICINE THE GAME
20:36:24 <jix> but if you aren't playing the game you lost it anyway
20:36:51 <ehird> the game specifies, as rule "You are playing the Game"
20:36:55 <ehird> that means that rules of games can reach out from themselves and affect others
20:36:58 <ehird> therefore, Not the Game uses the same mechanism to suspend playing of the Game
20:37:06 <ehird> no longer must you lose and thus announce your loss
20:37:08 <ehird> you are truly free
20:37:13 <ais523> ehird: that's clever, only a true nomic player would have thought up that
20:37:43 <ehird> ais523: what about precedence?
20:37:46 <ehird> maybe the game has power infinite
20:38:00 <ais523> ehird: create a new game to define precedence between other games
20:38:06 <ais523> remember, only games you're playing count in defining things
20:38:14 <ais523> and neither of the ones you're playing set precedence yet
20:38:17 <ehird> I stop playing Not the Game.
20:38:38 <ais523> ehird: anyway, where do the announcements go? Agora-business?
20:38:49 <ehird> ais523: same place the Game announcements go
20:38:53 <ehird> it just says that loss must be announced
20:39:08 <ehird> so, essentially, you have to transmit it in a way that someone else gets it
20:39:37 <ehird> Here are the new rules to Not the Game:
20:39:38 <ehird> 1. You can start playing or stop playing Not the Game by announcing you do.
20:39:38 <ehird> 2. If you are playing Not the Game, you are not playing The Game.
20:39:38 <ehird> 3. Not the Game takes precedence over every other game, including games (apart
20:39:39 <ehird> from Not the Game) that specify other rules of precedence.
20:39:42 <ehird> I start playing Not the Game.
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21:20:47 <ehird> who puns apart from oerjan
21:26:17 <ais523> but I'm nowhere near as good as oerjan
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21:52:21 <Deewiant> ehird: doesn't rule 3 break if you're playing two games of Not the Game concurrently
21:52:47 <Deewiant> or do we get to be practical and say that it doesn't matter which one takes precedence :-P
22:10:51 <psygnisfive> can i just say that mandarin has some very trivial yet interesting scoping devices?
22:10:54 <Deewiant> ehird: is that a 'yes' to both? :-P
22:11:01 <ehird> Deewiant: no, the former doesn't
22:11:07 <ehird> (apart from Not the Game)
22:11:57 <Deewiant> ehird: yes, so both Not the Games secede precedence to the other, which one wins :-P
22:12:10 <ais523> a third Not the Game which takes precedence over both of them
22:12:13 <Deewiant> hmm, secede isn't the word I was looking for
22:12:37 <psygnisfive> we should come up with some good scope things. :|
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22:14:47 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | 'Nuff said..
22:21:18 <ais523> AnMaster: I was going to ask you how to do CFLAGS on CMake
22:21:25 <ais523> but I found the answer by googling, in the end
22:21:32 <ais523> trying to help someone in another channel...
22:22:28 <AnMaster> ais523, it is easy to check in CMakeLists.txt
22:22:36 <AnMaster> ais523, I check if the compiler supports it for each flag
22:22:57 <ais523> I'm trying to deal with a badly set up CMake-based project
22:23:00 <ais523> with a buggy build system
22:23:38 <ehird> one sided conversations rock
22:23:59 <AnMaster> ais523, oh yes ehird is ignoring me iirc
22:24:26 <ais523> AnMaster: ah, ok, I wonder why?
22:24:33 <ais523> you seemed to be getting on quite well yesterday...
22:24:33 <AnMaster> ais523, anyway I'm around for about half an hour (or max 1 hour) if you want help
22:24:44 <ais523> no need to go past the maximum
22:25:03 <AnMaster> ais523, yes, not sure why, I think I said Mike Riley was a bad programmer, after reading his main.c
22:25:16 <ais523> ah yes, I remember from logreading now
22:25:24 <ais523> IMO, most programmers are bad programmers
22:25:43 <AnMaster> ais523, well, but some try to debug their code.
22:25:52 <lament> Most bad programmers are programmers.
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22:26:43 <AnMaster> ais523, I certainly make mistakes, and that is why I make sure to use every damn tool I can think of to test
22:26:51 <ehird> ais523: it's lament
22:26:53 <ehird> everything he says is zen
22:27:00 <AnMaster> I would have used unit tests except mycology really fulfill that
22:27:06 <GregorR> Well there's your problem.
22:27:13 <GregorR> If you just don't make mistakes, it's easier.
22:27:32 <Asztal> well, unit tests are slightly easier to write and maintain than mycology, I imagine ;)
22:27:53 <AnMaster> Asztal, But it is hard to unit test a funge interpreter
22:28:51 <Asztal> yeah, my tests (which I broke and can't be bothered fixing yet) just test really basic stuff, which mycology finds really easily anyway
22:30:07 <AnMaster> Asztal, however I use coverage tests + mycology
22:30:18 <AnMaster> finds what code paths it *didn't* test
22:30:31 <AnMaster> and allows me to write short test program for those
22:31:04 <AnMaster> now this is kind of messy with cfunge since gcov and cmake seem to have some hate-hate relationship
22:31:33 <AnMaster> I just start the built in webtool server in erlang and control the coverage check from my browser :D
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22:50:58 <oklopol> psygnisfive: well tell us about them.
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23:00:34 <oklopol> is it halloween or something?
23:00:53 <oklopol> (halloween was the TOT one right?)
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23:02:06 <ais523> oklopol: yes, Halloween is the trick or treat one
23:03:28 <psygnisfive> very clean, simple linear mapping to scope
23:04:37 <psygnisfive> but unlike english, there doesnt seem to be any equivalent version
23:05:56 <psygnisfive> and the idea of quantifier-negation-predicate couplings like this is cool
23:08:10 <psygnisfive> because 'all not P' has the semantics \X.(Ax<-X.-P(x)). but 'all P' is just \X.(Ax<-X.P(x)) and 'not P' is \x.-P(x)
23:08:30 <psygnisfive> so somehow this composition stuff embeds the functions or something
23:09:03 <psygnisfive> its cool, in funky ways, that we should do in a language
23:09:25 <psygnisfive> we should have weird composition stuff with predicates, quantification, and negation and stuff