@

< 1224168702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I linked it. < 1224168706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah yes < 1224168707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And nothing, but people don't care about it. < 1224168720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err? How else to separate paragraphs? < 1224168725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster:

< 1224168735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1224168738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's silly, it's unsemantic, but nobody cares. < 1224168746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I care ;P < 1224168755 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1224168765 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i care a negative amount, you should use

*because* it's worse for that purpose. < 1224168772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: but you're oklopol < 1224168782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, hey, this is #esoteric, but the whole world isn't #esoteric < 1224168787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is < 1224168792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, i just checked the vjn homepage < 1224168793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
< 1224168795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously? < 1224168795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1224168803 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what :D < 1224168809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: vjn.fi uses
< 1224168812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and this indicates that because the whole world does it the incorrect way we should all write strictly correct html < 1224168815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's neither html nor xhtml XD < 1224168816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because no one else does < 1224168817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1224168823 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1224168824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i do :\ < 1224168826 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's kinda cool < 1224168830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so do I < 1224168835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but we are all #esoteric < 1224168841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zomg rly < 1224168845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I said we should, since nobody else does < 1224168848 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a guy in our group used that for a while, until i told them it means nothing < 1224168857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1224168859 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems it's on the front page now, i find that a good thing < 1224168861 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1224168867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's reverse-self-closing < 1224168871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sort of... self-opens < 1224168906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strangely, vjn.fi actually uses p and css < 1224168940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A US judge has thrown out a case against God, ruling that because the defendant has no address, legal papers cannot be served. < 1224168940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/americas/7673591.stm < 1224168975 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the guy who used
is more the big picture type, the css is pretty good < 1224168999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: do you have committees working on that site < 1224169005 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1224169020 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, we don't < 1224169112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, about that link... < 1224169115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Only in US" < 1224169121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1224169123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bbc link? < 1224169134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, only an American would be that mad yeah < 1224169137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1224169140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you meant < 1224169146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the link didn't let you in XD < 1224169147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the country of the suing! < 1224169157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it wasn't a sueing < 1224169161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*suing < 1224169167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i think it was to make a point, you know < 1224169167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was it then? < 1224169171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ernie_Chambers < 1224169174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it was a lawsuit < 1224169185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah right, does "suing" mean something else? < 1224169198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah < 1224169202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning? < 1224169211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is where i link you to the wikipedia page < 1224169216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1224169218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read what you said wrong < 1224169218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1224169231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um? < 1224169243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no page titled "suing". < 1224169254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read what you said wrong <- dis < 1224169256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224169274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no page titled "i read what you said wrong". < 1224169278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1224169293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ååååååååååååååååååååååååå < 1224169321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if you meant it as aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa.... with some extra effect then it doesn't work < 1224169333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :å is ppronouncedvery differently < 1224169335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1224169335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1224169341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ispell went mad < 1224169342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i was just having fun < 1224169355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :å is pronounced very differently < 1224169358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was what I menat < 1224169361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meanwhile i'm trying to make the most minimal feed reader ever and now I want to kill myself :D < 1224169370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however the spelling correction breaks after an unicode char < 1224169371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems < 1224169371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid ffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff rss atom fsfsfsfsdjfkdsf < 1224169375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which plain sucks < 1224169385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I just use akregator < 1224169418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah, but i don't think this'll be too hard from where i am now, also i used netnewswire but i want something way more minimal < 1224169627 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | BABABABDBDBABABBDBBABBDBABDDD < 1224169664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, care to look up context for the topic optbot just set? < 1224169664 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: more like german < 1224169685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. < 1224169695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, thanks < 1224169734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08.03.15:14:47:21 BABABABDBDBABABBDBBABBDBABDDD < 1224169736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How predictable. < 1224169747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, heh, and in what context whas that? < 1224169760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:44:38 Deewiant, wow, this is pretty < 1224169760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:44:52 Assuming that instructions without any particular concurrency-related behaviour, such as ^>v<#, take one tick. < 1224169761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:44:52 Will continue to produce textual output, so strings must work correctly where concurrency is concerned: "a b" should take 5 ticks, 'a should take 1. < 1224169761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:44:52 GGGGGGOGOGOGOGOGOGOOGOOGOOGOOGOOGOODGOODGOODGOODGOODGOODGO:ODGO:ODGO:ODGO:ODGO < 1224169763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:45:01 Deewiant, that's good I assume? :D < 1224169764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean was it ah < 1224169765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:45:02 ;) < 1224169767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224169767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:47:21 BABABABDBDBABABBDBBABBDBABDDD < 1224169768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1224169771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:49:03 ehird, found it, ip didn't move correctly after split < 1224169771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1224169808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that makes sense < 1224170618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://inamidst.com/stuff/2008/thing.pl < 1224170621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perython! < 1224171184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is it a polygot? or? < 1224171192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1224171193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just python < 1224171200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it looks like perl < 1224171210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1224171217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-12 is crazy < 1224171235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no < 1224171237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and what does that mean? < 1224171240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought that was ::-12 < 1224171249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: [:-12] is a slice with an implicit first 0, that is < 1224171251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0 : -12] < 1224171256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and with ::? < 1224171256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you get all but the last 12 chars < 1224171269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ::-1 reverses < 1224171274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::: is a bit complex... < 1224171279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ::-12? < 1224171285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> 'abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz'[::-12] < 1224171285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'znb' < 1224171285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1224171294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know how that works either < 1224171297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224171302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.python.org/doc/2.3/whatsnew/section-slices.html < 1224171304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1224171310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you should ask #python? < 1224171321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.python.org/doc/2.3/whatsnew/section-slices.html < 1224171331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it only mentions ::-1 < 1224171335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not any other level < 1224171336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it does not. < 1224171340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please actually read it < 1224171341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1224171352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so searching for ::- using browser doesn't work? < 1224171363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes there is a thing called english < 1224171365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :formatted into prose < 1224171367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes you read it < 1224171369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with your eyes and your brain. < 1224171376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah so stride of -12 < 1224171379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 12 from end < 1224171382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224171383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that makes sense < 1224171394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I agree syntax is slightly mad for that < 1224171418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw would a perl/python polygot be possible? < 1224171433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No. < 1224171436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, possibly. < 1224171439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But most likely not. < 1224171446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without considering the #! line I mean < 1224171458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1224172464 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1224173053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie and Deewiant are you there? < 1224174038 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-39-168.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224174141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there? < 1224174147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1224174155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remember that MKRY fingerprint you made? < 1224174163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it MKRL < 1224174164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1224174167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was too well defined < 1224174173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it doesn't work as a parody ;P < 1224174190 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION didn't get it
< 1224174193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how was it too well defined < 1224174205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tusho.net/mkry/ is as vague as you can get < 1224174244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is actually implementable from that spec < 1224174260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't see how to make it more vague, but really it is easy to implement from that < 1224174260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmmm... not really < 1224174269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: only because i clarified it to you < 1224174272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in here < 1224174284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no I can easily see how it would work from that spec < 1224174293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how do you know E doesn't push like 'eeeee' or 'hhhhhh' < 1224174298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing to say that it's random per character < 1224174314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well apart from that it is clear < 1224174323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its tiny, "that" is a big part < 1224174324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1224175679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is "implementors" the right word for "a person making an implementation of something"? < 1224175701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Implementor, yes. < 1224175708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in plural? < 1224175716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just aspell doesn't like it < 1224175725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor implementor < 1224175735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shrug < 1224175735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1224175741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Implementer < 1224175763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1224175767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kay then... < 1224175769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what a google gives < 1224175773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1224175781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i'd just say "implementors" < 1224175809 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both are acceptable, according to dictonary.com < 1224175876 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wouldn't trust dictonary.com on this matter < 1224175897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would < 1224175952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, why not? < 1224175954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why? < 1224175957 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dictonary.com/ well, glasses are a sign of intelligence, i guess < 1224175976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, you're picking on a typo < 1224175977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha ha. < 1224175978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, yes of course I always knew that. Thanks < 1224175987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asztal dictionary.com < 1224175990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ^ meant < 1224175995 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1224176008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, also do you have glasses? < 1224176029 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just dictonary could be a dyslexic dictionary, o and e could easily have swapped there < 1224176043 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a *relevant* joke based on the typo < 1224176050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1224176052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, yep < 1224176057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still < 1224176063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have glasses? < 1224176078 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm no, glasses and allergies are for lesser people < 1224176088 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, i'm a pol < 1224176089 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1224176090 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1224176093 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oklogod < 1224176115 0 :oklogod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my eyes are both perfect and reaaaally sucky < 1224176139 0 :oklogod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :occasionally, they simply lose the ability to ...sharpen? whazzz the term now < 1224176156 0 :oklogod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, usually i see like a bear with large glasses < 1224176159 0 :oklogod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really well that is < 1224176199 0 :oklogod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you ask? < 1224176413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklogod, as you didn < 1224176421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1224176423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically < 1224176441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wouldn't actually consider glasses a sign of intelligence then? < 1224176446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since you don't wear them yourself < 1224176447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1224176450 0 :oklogod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wouldn't? < 1224176473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklogod, obviously you only would if you needed them yourself < 1224176490 0 :oklogod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhhuh? < 1224176496 0 :oklogod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you confusing implication and equivalence? < 1224176514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklogod, aren't you? < 1224176524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I suggest you clarify that. < 1224176535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However there is no connection I think. < 1224176549 0 :oklogod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would i only consider glasses a sign of intelligence if i had ones myself? < 1224176553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I *do* wear glasses < 1224176562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklogod, isn't that pretty clear? < 1224176574 0 :oklogod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1224176596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a god you would be omniscient (or whatever it is called, omnipotent?) so I wouldn't need explaining < 1224176630 0 :oklogod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, so they can't be a sign of intelligence, because if they were, i couldn't be intelligent without them? < 1224176651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklogod, No... now you are just confusing the issue even more < 1224176660 0 :oklogod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glasses => intelligence doesn't rule out !glasses ^ intelligence < 1224176682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not glasses) bitwise_xor intelligence < 1224176684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1224176691 0 :oklogod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh sorry, ^ as in and < 1224176694 0 :oklogod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& < 1224176708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(logical_not glasses) bitwise_and intelligence < 1224176711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still not very clear < 1224176741 0 :oklogod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not? "not to have glasses and still be intelligent" < 1224176752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster is wrong < 1224176755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklogod is right < 1224176761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklogod, I suggest they are two uncorrelated variables. < 1224176779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklogod is saying: < 1224176783 0 :oklogod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i suggest you learn the difference between implication and equivalence < 1224176796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(glasses => intelligence) & !(!glasses => !intelligence) < 1224176797 0 :oklogod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also i suggest you learn to ski and buy a boat < 1224176800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i agree with oklogod < 1224176805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he needs to learn thus < 1224176818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well what you just said was pretty clear < 1224176843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glasses implies intelligence, but lack of them doesn't implies lack intelligence < 1224176851 0 :oklogod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, to be more precise, !((glasses => intelligence) => !(!glasses => !intelligence)) < 1224176853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just his use of bitwise operations in that were confusing < 1224176863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklogod, also clear < 1224176864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1224176867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he never used bitwise operators < 1224176873 0 :oklogod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some things are less clear than others < 1224176875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes ^ is bitwise xor < 1224176878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because all you can fucking think in is C does not mean ^ = xor and & = bitwise and < 1224176883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ is AND in logic < 1224176897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well he didn't state what language he used < 1224176909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so make a reasonable fucking assumption and see it's logic from the context < 1224176911 0 :oklogod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i apologized for ^, that could've meant xor, because had i had xors, i would probably have used ^ for them. < 1224176918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : glasses => intelligence doesn't rule out !glasses ^ intelligence < 1224176919 0 :oklogod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1224176919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=> < 1224176927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't make sense as equal to or greater than in that context < 1224176931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor does a bitwise operator < 1224176939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can pretty damn reasonably conclude it's using the language of logic < 1224176955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, this is #esoteric, stuff doesn't always make sense < 1224176969 0 :oklogod!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oklopol < 1224176973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's always your excuse for being unreasonable < 1224176981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric isn't about being intentionally annoying < 1224176993 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should be more careful, i'm beginning to show classic signs of narcism < 1224177005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: but you are god. < 1224177011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the god ofo ko. < 1224177027 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofo oko otototo < 1224177052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*of oko < 1224177106 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, seems the universe likes boosting my ego, ex is asking for sex :D < 1224177177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, should have decided not to become ex then maybe? < 1224177293 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1224177299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1224177340 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought so. < 1224177962 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to code :| < 1224177976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does pthreads allow any form of message passing? < 1224177981 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is there no time for codes anymore < 1224177983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in not shared memory. < 1224178246 0 :ab5tract!n=ab5tract@pool-71-246-5-13.phlapa.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1224178538 0 :Corun!n=Corun@94-192-102-5.zone6.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1224179129 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's just mutexes, condition variables and the shared memory; but you can easily build message queues out of those. < 1224179451 0 :slereah!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-39-168.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224179452 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1224179866 0 :slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1224179933 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-39-168.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224180400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remind me sometime to write the 'u' program. < 1224180410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Lets you use URIs with regular utilities, like:) < 1224180425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ u cp http://google.com/ googles-index-page.html < 1224180439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ u echo "hi" > http://google.com/ # uses PUT or whatever < 1224180442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1224180445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that last one would be hard < 1224180451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess i'd need to modify zsh < 1224180452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :humbug < 1224180509 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1224180526 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could use some sort of indication in the "file" name to indicate what you want to do with the file (like "cp data PUT:http://google.com") but it's not nearly as pretty then. < 1224180537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yeah... < 1224180541 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ex-Chat" < 1224180549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then I could just write a funky FS-like thing called /u/ < 1224180561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cat /u/http:/google.com < 1224180758 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuse seems to have a 'httpfs' but it's sadly just "mount a single http:// URL somewhere". < 1224180779 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course smbsh does that "hook to open and friends" trickery to provide their /smb magic-directory. < 1224180928 0 :Corun_!n=Corun@94-192-102-5.zone6.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1224180961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: /u/ is a bit of an ugly solution, though. < 1224180977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, all tools should just accept URIs as well as files :P < 1224180986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just treat filepaths as file:// < 1224181188 0 :Jiminy_Cricket!n=bob@adsl-230-206-75.btr.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1224181785 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1224182641 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@m-139.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1224182717 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-39-168.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224182720 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1224182812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, still there? < 1224182895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : guess i'd need to modify zsh < 1224182895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : humbug < 1224182896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1224182899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you use zsh? < 1224182902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes? < 1224182917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and? < 1224182919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you prefer emacs or vi if those where the only existing editors? < 1224182927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ed < 1224182931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or emacs vs. vim < 1224182931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather < 1224182936 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still here. < 1224182942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, as I said "if those were the only existing editors" < 1224182961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, http://rafb.net/p/h4khwC72.html < 1224182972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, those are written in C, so I guess there's a c compiler too... i'd write my own < 1224182975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, comments on this last version? Any fingerprints need to be listed as well? < 1224183006 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1224183007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, really? But what if the system lacked a C compiler, maybe it was a binary distro with no toolchain installed, nor any internet connection < 1224183018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'd throw the computer out of the window. < 1224183024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1224183032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not of any use to me/ < 1224183034 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: If you really prefer ed, I'd recommend you to choose vim out of those two, since it has an 'ex' mode, and 'ex' is somewhat like 'ed'. < 1224183042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ok then, which editor is best of emacs and vim if you have to choose? < 1224183043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: No, I don't really < 1224183052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: depends on the usecase. < 1224183065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, text editor, programming and so on < 1224183070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use vi no matter what editor i use, for quickly tweaking config files < 1224183079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when i'm at the console and similar < 1224183088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than that, for actual coding, i'd go for emacs < 1224183093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1224183094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vi is a sysadmins tool, emacs is a coders tool < 1224183107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that sentence needs some apostrophes < 1224183108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sh would you go for bash for quick tasks and zsh for more complex ones? < 1224183110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so* < 1224183113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sh < 1224183113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no < 1224183115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though... < 1224183117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because zsh scales < 1224183123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from trivial stuff to complex stuff < 1224183132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well zsh is rather large < 1224183137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd even call it bloated sometimes < 1224183140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't notice the largeness. < 1224183143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some tasks < 1224183144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do when using, e.g. emacs. < 1224183157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it got a built in ftp client even... < 1224183163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zsh that is < 1224183177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's got a builtin * client. < 1224183179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where * = everything. < 1224183182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :built in as a loadable module < 1224183182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except it's modular. < 1224183187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224183188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : zshzftpsys Zsh built-in FTP client < 1224183195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from man zsh < 1224183197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I can autocomplete remote paths with scp. < 1224183204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so can I under bash < 1224183205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it has tons of features, but they're modular. < 1224183207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your point? < 1224183216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm just saying that of course it has a ton of stuff like that. < 1224183218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what zsh is about. < 1224183227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's not like they're cluttering up the codebase, they're modular. < 1224183232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they don't interfere with anything else. < 1224183234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the problem? < 1224183259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and so does bash, bash-completion is a flexible and fairly simple framework, that allow bash functions that generate possible completions for specific commands < 1224183268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. That's completion. < 1224183283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can do everything you can do in zsh in bash < 1224183290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both are in theory tc < 1224183293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik < 1224183304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The day you show me a bash installation that can do everything zsh does without resorting to the absurd TC argument is the day I don't switch because zsh has done it all for years already and bash doesn't offer any further advantages. < 1224183305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather BSMs in reality < 1224183335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well tc argument is used a lot in this channel < 1224183337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by everyone < 1224183345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmnope < 1224183353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mostly for esolangs < 1224183354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just you use it in a non-joke discussion < 1224183359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not the TC argument < 1224183370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tc argument is "well, that's irrelevant, they are both TC, therefore they are equally as good" < 1224183371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := bullshit < 1224183390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, where did I say that exact quote? < 1224183402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You didn't. < 1224183418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I never claimed it was as easy to do it in both those languages < 1224183418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Humans do this thing called "interpretation" whereby we change english text into semantic graphs in our head. < 1224183452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, idea how to solve: Talk in semantic graphs, somewhat like scheme is written in a parsing tree more or less < 1224183496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be a fairly interesting constructed language, if it hasn't already been done < 1224183519 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If you feel like it, I'd add something like the pthreads condition variables. I'm sure you can build those already with the tools you have, but it's nontrivial. (The constructions I can immediately think of need to atomically unlock one mutex and try to lock another one.) Can't think of any other-fingerprint issues right now. < 1224183535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does those variables work fizzie? < 1224183605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, since erlang mostly use message passing, only global variable is funge-space really < 1224183630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but couldn't P be used to sync set a variable to act as a conditional? < 1224183643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in combination with C possibly < 1224183667 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but you can't atomically unlock a mutex and then wait on it. Probably solvable by busy-loop-polling instead of waiting, but that's just nasty. < 1224183712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well can you tell me how those condition variables really work then? I can't find any man page for them here, plenty for mutexes and semaphores, but nothing for such variables < 1224183726 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Condition variables just give you an object you can wait on, and other threads can then "signal/broadcast" on that object so that the waiting thread (or threads) is started. < 1224183746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and what are the relevant pthread functions for that? < 1224183776 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pthread_cond_wait/timedwait for waiting, signal/broadcast for releasing waiting threads (signal == one, broadcast == all), and of course the usual _init for creating one. < 1224183803 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The sleep/resume functions seem to have gone? < 1224183842 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you made sleep release all held locks, and to automatically reacquire them when the thread is resumed, you'd basically have given a single condition variable per thread. < 1224184074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well sleep/resume could be added, but I was unsure if it was needed < 1224184122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also just sleep, with optional release, and allow another thread to resume it, would be easy < 1224184134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :harder to reacquire all locks < 1224184142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy to cause dead-lock < 1224184169 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's always easy to cause deadlocks with explicit synchronization code, that's pretty much a given. < 1224184180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1224184242 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some form of waiting (other than simply waiting for a locked mutex to become true -- for one thing, that sort of wait can only be ended by the thread owning the lock, and there's no atomic "release this controlling mutex before waiting" thing) could be helpful, anyway. < 1224184270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm yeah < 1224184275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, maybe also wait with timeout? < 1224184289 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. < 1224184304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be trivial in erlang < 1224184305 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course just aping the pthreads API is not inherently very esoteric. OTOH, I'd at least almost know how to use it. :p < 1224184309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure about pthreads < 1224184325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, does pthreads mutexes have timeout? < 1224184353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems they don't? < 1224184361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh timedlock < 1224184362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1224184365 0 :Corun_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1224184368 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also cond_timedwait. < 1224184382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn :P < 1224184436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway using G P and C should allow building almost any form of syncing I think? < 1224184446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compare-and-exchange is quite powerful I read somewhere < 1224184477 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Powerful, yes, but a lot of the constructions involve busy-waiting for something to happen in the shared memory. < 1224184487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it was some scientific article comparing what sort of lockless atomic operations could be used to simulate other lockless atomic operations) < 1224184495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and compare and exchange was the most powerful iirc) < 1224184507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I could provide inc/dec easily too < 1224184512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a funge-space cell < 1224184530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would return the new value due to erlang's api < 1224184533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the old one < 1224184543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course old one would be easy too < 1224184549 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still nice to have something that can be used to tell the scheduler "hey, don't bother waking me up until ". < 1224184572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes I agree, but it should be original, not just ape pthreads < 1224184575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got any good idea? < 1224184578 0 :Corun_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1224184593 0 :Corun!n=Corun@94-192-102-5.zone6.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1224184597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, erlang got waiting for message of course < 1224184617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe allow waiting for another thread to send a specific global number? < 1224184665 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could add built-in message queues (with a "wait for a message" thing) that can deliver one funge cell to the named (ID) thread. < 1224184667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, like W (n) - block until another thread signals the number n is received < 1224184680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I for sigNal < 1224184708 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's maybe stranger, so just use that. < 1224184783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1224184786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sIgnal < 1224184789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1224184795 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I'm not sure if it would be nice to have something that can really do that atomic "unlock this mutex before waiting, reacquire it afterwards" operation. < 1224184809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well reaquire could just block. < 1224184820 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what it usually does. < 1224184823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1224184834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait with Unlock < 1224184837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1224184855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the one given above < 1224184862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that allows locking/unlocking < 1224184880 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see myself using it. :p < 1224184900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I think possibly mutexes should be renamed too < 1224184910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got any good idea for a name? < 1224184934 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use the "lock" terminology if you like. Or something original and punny inspired from that sort of thing. < 1224184945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, bolt? < 1224184959 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'hasp' < 1224184961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from bolting the door < 1224184964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, good idea < 1224184974 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1224184975 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOCK for locking a mutex, PICK for releasing it. :p < 1224184983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well hm < 1224184994 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats pretty good too :) < 1224184994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what about sync put then? < 1224185012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it already uses P < 1224185013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1224185028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and set is used for spawn < 1224185034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t for try lock < 1224185036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1224185037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T < 1224185038 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I'd probably keep the G/P pair for operations that are like g/p; it's what FILE and STRN and probably others do. < 1224185047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed < 1224185061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so calling it hasp would work < 1224185137 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Nail" for locking a mutex, "Crowbar" for releasing it. Except that you already use C for CMPXCHG. And maybe it's a bit too "sounds like illegal activities". :p < 1224185150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1224185167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, they shouldn't be called mutexes I think < 1224185180 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you end up picking some unstandard nomenclature, by all means completely avoid the word mutex in the spec. < 1224185187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nail with the operations hammer and crowbar would work < 1224185192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for hasp it would be? < 1224185224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but C is already used too really :/ < 1224185257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh btw: < 1224185257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that an implementation _may_ make g, p and other such instructions < 1224185258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :synchronous as well, but it is not guaranteed. Block access should never be < 1224185258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :synchronous. < 1224185263 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although nail/hammer/crowbar has pretty strange real-world implications. "This instruction hammers in a nail; only the same thread can then use crowbar for releasing it. If some other thread wants to hammer the nail in, it must wait for the original thread to crowbar it out." < 1224185268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that thing indicates that I would do so to begin with < 1224185284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ok that doesn't work < 1224185289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you do with a hasp? < 1224185296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lift to open it? < 1224185298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or? < 1224185303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for locking it? < 1224185325 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can try thinking of something lock-unrelated that's simply mutually exclusive in the real world. < 1224185346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also that above works easily too, since there is only one hammer and one crowbar, per nail < 1224185361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and regulations forbid using the hammer or crowbar from the wrong nail < 1224185384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION considers that
< 1224185427 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you could use "a person" as a mutex, then "Kidnap" would be the operation to acquire that particular person, and then "Ransom" would be needed to get the person available again. :p < 1224185461 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to awayize now for a while (an hour or so), have fun inventing names. < 1224185496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well going to eat soon < 1224185503 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's your mutex-creation operation anyway? I don't think I saw one in the draft. < 1224185511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also ransom would be a different one < 1224185515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there is no need to create it? < 1224185526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is just locking on an arbitrary erlang term < 1224185531 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so you can just use any ID you want? M'k. < 1224185540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, in this case any number < 1224185545 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe cleaner that way. < 1224185547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in valid range for the implementation < 1224185551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idea: < 1224185552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, which is BIGNUM for efunge < 1224185554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plaintext fingerprint. < 1224185555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1224185567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All letters apart from X push a special value for themselves on the stack. < 1224185569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X executes it. < 1224185572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HELLOX might print hello world < 1224185653 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HULOXXX < 1224185760 0 :atrapado!i=ro@cm36185.red83-165.mundo-r.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1224186043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hehe < 1224186063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you need to properly define it though < 1224186066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. < 1224186078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or no one could implement it < 1224186088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't imply that I will implement it even if you define it < 1224186090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://www.aaronsw.com/2002/feedfinder/feedfinder.py Face the horror of the multi-step magical feed finder that takes up to 5 seconds to find most feeds because the web is horribly broken and nobody complies to anything!) < 1224186104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw have you showed MKRY to Mike Riley? < 1224186108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1224186118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he'll go wtf, or ehehehhehhehehhehe, i imagine < 1224186133 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1224186137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah it might be worse than me agreeing with you < 1224186146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1224186150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he'll probably implement it < 1224186150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1224186154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to the spec, ofc < 1224186159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1224186185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also did you look at this ATHR I'm working on? < 1224186193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1224186194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1224186195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224186195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit < 1224186195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the spec is about the opposite of that < 1224186206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< feedfinder.py can't find wikipedia's rss feed < 1224186211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite being the most comprehensive code i've found < 1224186212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it even have "consideration of impacts on other fingerprints" and such < 1224186233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it is about 2/3 as feral as MVRS, and TRDS < 1224186236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even more < 1224186244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as feral as TRDS though < 1224186266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, current local copy is 280 lines < 1224186292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual instructions spec cover just about 60 of those < 1224186299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a bit more < 1224186322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :77 actually, < 1224186327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :miscalculated < 1224186365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the wait with atomic unlock/lock would be hard since it wouldn't actually be atomic on lower level :/ < 1224186378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, unable to do that without holding another lock! < 1224186418 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION read that as wait with atomic clock
< 1224186436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, atomic *lock* < 1224186444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those are not wildcards < 1224186449 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*whoosh* < 1224186456 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are not wildcards either < 1224186467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, or, as it may turn out, atomic hasp < 1224186467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1224186490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since words such as "mutex" and "lock" are too common < 1224186495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need something original < 1224186510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I think hasp will be best < 1224186564 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can read that as wasp if you want < 1224186572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, no thanks < 1224186668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, anyway if you are interested here is the current spec: http://rafb.net/p/ivz6AN26.html < 1224186714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it is still under development < 1224186733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, do you agree it is about as far from Riley's specs as it is possible to get? < 1224186743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not erally < 1224186751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? < 1224186760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is unclear in it? < 1224186762 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Waits are so rare that I'm not sure you'd get any performance problems even if you serialized that somehow. It doesn't even need to be a very global locking-thing probably. I don't know anything about Erlang concurrency (except that it's mostly passing messages around) so I won't comment about implementation-level things, though. < 1224186792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nothing < 1224186797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well the module that allows creating locks is called "global" < 1224186831 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1224186837 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeeees, but I guess not everyone needs to actually care about the lock? I mean "global" here in the sense of "blocking everyone who wants to initiate a wait operation and/or signal someone". < 1224186855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also the lock would need to be held when unlocking and then suspending, after which you can't unlock it any more since you are suspended < 1224186890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :logically < 1224187297 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on how the suspend/resume works, I guess. You'd need to keep that lock held until it's clear that the thread can manage to get suspended without any other thread having a chance of acquiring that hasp that was flubbrigated (ATHR-"mutex" "released") and resuming that thread before it actually managed to suspend. < 1224187336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You'd need to keep that lock held until it's clear that the thread can manage to get suspended without any other thread having a chance of acquiring that hasp that was flubbrigated" <-- never clear < 1224187355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, erlang use a round robin scheduling that may change to another thread at any one time < 1224187360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and consider SMP too... < 1224187382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway I could easily wait for the message anyway < 1224187387 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it's not like your Funge-interpreting thread would actually have to start interpreting things immediately after resuming. < 1224187389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, get it directly < 1224187417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the receive statement would just return right away < 1224187439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so I guess it if doesn't have to be actually atomic < 1224187441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then fine < 1224187457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and what if it is woken up, just to end up waiting on a lock that is already held again? < 1224187496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also, suspending and waiting for a lock to become free is basically what L does < 1224187496 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, if you have "wait for messages" that won't actually lose messages (so it's not condition-variable-like waiting) I guess you don't need the controlling mutex there. < 1224187535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed, messages don't get lost, however the thread will probably have to clean out it's mail box at some point < 1224187544 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's probably not a problem. < 1224187552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, in the main loop? < 1224187564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, erlang mailboxes may have some size limit, not sure < 1224187571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what the message queues are called < 1224187573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in erlang < 1224187589 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's not hard for the Funge programmer to organize his/her threads so that it won't end up filling those. < 1224187609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the issue is that the signal would be broadcast to all threads < 1224187624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha, wow. I sent an email to Aaron Swartz telling him his feed finder thing was broken an hour or so ago, and I get a response right now telling me why (their robots.txt forbids accessing it) and linking to a bug he just filed for it. < 1224187635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's some quick response time. < 1224187659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, if I can't do that then it may actually end up loosing messages as you suggested < 1224187665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: lose < 1224187669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :losing* < 1224187679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait I know < 1224187685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lo{1,2}sing < 1224187689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what I will use ;P < 1224187695 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. Well, it's still possible to organize threads so that they check all messages, although it might get to be complicated unless you happen to have a non-blocking "get my mail" thing. < 1224187715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes maybe directed signal or something < 1224187721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that would need IDs for threads < 1224187728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1224187749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION considers
< 1224187765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, it wasn't an hour ago. < 1224187773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was *10 minutes ago*. < 1224187775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The mind boggles. < 1224187805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, he might have been checking his email once a day and happened to check it just after you mailed < 1224187806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1224187818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, but that would be some coincidence. :-P < 1224187818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be a coincidence < 1224187834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: He could just have a push-updates email client, you know. I do. < 1224187840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well you don't have enough data points to prove it wasn't due to that < 1224187859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, it's odd sending an email, promptly forgetting about it, then 10 minutes noticing you have new email and seeing there's a reply already. < 1224187864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, even so I don't always actually check the client < 1224187870 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In any case, I think the controlling mutex used for pthread condition variables (that is atomically unlocked by pthread_cond_wait and then reacquired when woken up) is there pretty much because of that otherwise complicated race condition where you check whether you need to wait something, start the wait, and then it just happens that the thing-you-were-waiting-for finished and the signal was sent (and lost) before the waiting thread managed to get suspended. < 1224187879 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if your signals don't get lost, that problem isn't there. < 1224187926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the problem is that unless you use W in a thread existing signals will just queue up and waste memory < 1224187953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much wasted memory are you prepared to accept in a program that might run without a reboot for a decade? < 1224187967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that is a common erlang question, like "how many runaway threads...") < 1224187980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(since erlang is often used for extremely long running applications like that) < 1224187981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah. Why isn't there a Python library to canonicalize URLs? < 1224187992 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really care if it can be avoided by actually using W from time to time. < 1224187994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: A befunge program will not run without a reboot for a decade. < 1224188000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cannonicalize URLs would be funnier < 1224188000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1224188006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh. < 1224188017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure? code upgrades are easy, self modifying < 1224188017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION writes his own
< 1224188023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, maybe a F to flush? < 1224188032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll call it canonurl, because I am boring. < 1224188035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, for 1 or 2 n- cases? < 1224188047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/-// < 1224188047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Can o' N < 1224188048 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :canonize URLs would also be good < 1224188049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :URL < 1224188055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cannon! < 1224188060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is much more fun < 1224188076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lethal urls < 1224188123 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You can "flush" it by doing something like 8y:IW pretty easily, although it's a bit wasteful. < 1224188148 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("8y" just to get a thread-unique number, and maybe you'd need something to avoid conflicts with "real" wait numbers, but anyway...) < 1224188159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1224188181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, except that signal would go to every process < 1224188197 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: signal / noise < 1224188198 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract: let's see your code. and larceny's twobit compiler has an excuse to quit my job, and release my system too. < 1224188208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, "Any other queued signals before the matching one are discarded by W." < 1224188219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that makes it slightly more complex ;P < 1224188226 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's what I was almost expecting. < 1224188235 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Fungot's been running without a reboot for almost a week now. That's pretty close to a decade! < 1224188241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so maybe a true F to flush anyway < 1224188244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: *nod* < 1224188259 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, maybe it's only four days. It's closer to 1 week than 0 weeks, anyway! < 1224188271 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And it would be longer unless it had the habit of crashing all the time.) < 1224188275 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: have you named your mutex stuff yet? < 1224188284 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, now I really must go away. < 1224188296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, no, hasp is a good idea, but what would the operations lock/release/try-lock be called for it? < 1224188313 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :open/close/inspect < 1224188339 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you are using those for io already... < 1224188350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is used < 1224188355 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :latch/unlatch/inspect ? < 1224188378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :L would work so would U, the current I make as much sense as N anyway so that would work fine < 1224188378 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorta a stretchy metapohor at that point i guess < 1224188407 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the overall theme of the language? < 1224188418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, befunge-98, this is a fingerprint for it < 1224188423 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahhhh < 1224188432 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1224188446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, and I think Befunge-98 today is a general-purpose esolang < 1224188447 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm all about the funge < 1224188456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering all the fingerprints for it < 1224188465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for everything from sockets to files < 1224188467 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought maybe you were creating a new language < 1224188487 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, my .sig is in befunge-93 < 1224188512 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't learned the -98 but i have the specification < 1224188519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, ah no, I just think t in befunge isn't very useful. Befunge needs a way to take advantage of the multi-core cpus today to be a viable language in the future enterprise world! < 1224188523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1224188541 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely < 1224188542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since t is synced so each instruction takes one tick < 1224188572 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you are replacing it with a mutex? < 1224188580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, with async threads < 1224188582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be exact < 1224188586 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1224188592 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asynch asynch asynch < 1224188596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, and it will be implemented in erlang < 1224188601 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats what i chant at political rallies < 1224188605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a message-passing concurrent erlang < 1224188609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asynch? < 1224188620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, and I didn't get that joke < 1224188624 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the trailing h, so sue me < 1224188637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, my spec use the full word < 1224188639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/OINz1N69.html < 1224188647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the current draft < 1224188695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... Do you guys think it's reasonable to assume people don't serve different content on http://foo.com/ to http://www.foo.com/? < 1224188696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1224188713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes, but the www one shouldn't resolve < 1224188717 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the idea of funge with erlang < 1224188727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, it should, but it should redirect to the former. < 1224188728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also the non-www seem to redirect to the www one < 1224188731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is horrible < 1224188732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :However, I'm not asking for your idealism. < 1224188754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yeah I usually redirect www to non-www, so that would put be in B class of no-www iirc? < 1224188754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm asking people who actually have a grasp on reality and pragmatism whether they think there are any examples of foo.com differing from www.foo.com. < 1224188774 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grasp on reality and pragmatism? < 1224188775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I know one < 1224188778 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's my time to shine! < 1224188779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the local municpality < 1224188781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err spelling < 1224188784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: link? < 1224188788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yep... < 1224188790 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.foo.com and foo.com should actually just redirect to each other < 1224188796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, http://www.kumla.se/ < 1224188800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the non-www returns an error < 1224188803 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oto.foo.com is where the actual content should be < 1224188814 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except all the letters f, j and k should be in oko.foo.com < 1224188815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 403 Forbidden to be exact < 1224188817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Ah. < 1224188820 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for one, that's simply removed. < 1224188824 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glad i could help < 1224188825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, which is pretty wtfish :P < 1224188859 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this excluding the cases where www. doesn't even exist? < 1224188873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal, I think so < 1224188882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seen a few sites like that < 1224188903 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no-www.org says 38,000 domains < 1224188911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no-www doesn't load here < 1224188916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a white page < 1224188917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1224188922 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor here, I checked google's cache :) < 1224188970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :extra-www loads though < 1224188976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc someone from this channel made it < 1224188982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR maybe? Not sure < 1224189053 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I can't recall any case where both exist but have different content < 1224189094 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reminds me of news.com.com < 1224189097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you don't count the example I gave? < 1224189131 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's common for one or the other to give an error < 1224189148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, 403 forbidden too? < 1224189172 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: many sites give 403 when they mean 404 < 1224189182 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for security reasons, I suspect < 1224189183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that makes no sense < 1224189196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, wouldn't it be more secure to give 404 for all instead? < 1224189219 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, good point < 1224189227 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I don't know why < 1224189234 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for instance http://users.tkk.fi/mniemenm/foo is a 403 < 1224189245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and it is a 404 really? < 1224189257 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can assure you my public_html directory doesn't contain a file called foo which you're not allowed to read :-P < 1224189263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, maybe it is 403 as in "directory listing forbidden"? < 1224189285 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why would that make sense < 1224189285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah no < 1224189299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it would only make sense for a directory indeed < 1224189762 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1224189798 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-127-174.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1224189975 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are many sites where the non-www. one is broken. < 1224190017 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I ran across one today too. < 1224190019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, my sites always redirect www one to non-www < 1224190052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first redirect in lighttpd.conf < 1224190066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :globally, for all vhosts < 1224190117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, http://rafb.net/p/ZtV0Tn90.html < 1224190121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the current version < 1224190135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah wait < 1224190140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should say no parameters for F < 1224190175 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-3-244.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224190195 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually both the www and non-www ones for the site I ran across now say "We are making big updates on the server Web services will be up and running later today." -- maybe they'll get that fixed too. < 1224190302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gee, your draft warning was nice < 1224190302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here I was < 1224190305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMPLEMENTING it < 1224190311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but its only a draft?! < 1224190312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omgwtfbbq! < 1224190362 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION brings sausages
< 1224190380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hah hah < 1224190429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also writing specs for funge have taught me one thing: Better try to state things you think everyone would understand < 1224190433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since everyone won't < 1224190435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever < 1224190451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so state things explicitly < 1224190457 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The C instruction should indicate what happened somehow. I think usually (at least CMPXCHG) it just returns the current value that was there in the cell, so you can just use a "C-|" sequence (if you had the "value to compare to" under the params in the stack) to see whether it did the swap or not. < 1224190467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, thanks, I forgot that < 1224190506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why -? < 1224190516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather just using a w there < 1224190519 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: equality comparison... < 1224190519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be better < 1224190527 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w might go up or down. < 1224190528 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w's are annoying because you need to handle 3 cases < 1224190536 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with -| or -_ it's 2 < 1224190561 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it could indicate by reflecting too if you're more into that; a boolean yes/no is strictly speaking enough. Although then it's not actually compare-and-*swap*. < 1224190562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well yeah, but | or _ checks for "equal to zero/different from zero" < 1224190581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah wait < 1224190583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1224190585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would work < 1224190588 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, so with - you get "top two are equal" < 1224190592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah updated spec have it < 1224190650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what about C reflecting if current cell isn't equal? < 1224190667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in C failed < 1224190673 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask fizzie, I don't even know what you're talking about :-P < 1224190684 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should call it "compare and set" then, but other than that it should be fine. < 1224190696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Reflects if replace failed, pushing the existing (unchanged value on stack). < 1224190699 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it's not "exchange" if you don't get the old value back. < 1224190705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it also pushes the old value < 1224190709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is successful < 1224190741 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.www.extra-www.org/ is my site. < 1224190741 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you can do that too, but then most people will probably just follow it with $ since the reflection is what interests people. Usually. I guess in some cases the old value is interesting too. < 1224190761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you should probably know it < 1224190763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hm < 1224190770 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1224190771 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1224190771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so that is a bad idea then? < 1224190789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no reflect? < 1224190804 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a real opinion; it's just a matter of a couple of characters, anyway. As long as it indicates at least somehow whether it failed or not. < 1224190812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: That arson news site, why does it actually use it? < 1224190821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think why you'd be crazy enough to, you know, actually do it. < 1224190823 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uppercased instructions seem to reflect a whole lot, though. < 1224190823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also what sould it push if it fails then? < 1224190850 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's called "exchange", it should probably in all cases push the value that was there, even if it did not actually set it to whatever you wanted. < 1224190866 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes, lowercased instructions just invoke undefined behaviour ;-) < 1224190867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm < 1224190867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1224190893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, true, and so does Riley's upper case ones too < 1224190941 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personally I'd probably just make it either always push the old value and not reflect (so that people will do -| after it) or simply reflect without pushing the old value (but call it compare-and-set, then, it should be just as powerful, though maybe not quite as convenient -- can't think of use cases right now). < 1224190959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ok < 1224190968 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Convenience has never been very high on funge-people's priorities, though. < 1224190969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1224190970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lag < 1224190989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better now < 1224191018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I go for the exchange one < 1224191036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I think reflect is more convenient ;P < 1224191227 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | Do you know, pikhq? < 1224191253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone ever made a programming language based on text formatting? Well apart from ColourForth but that doesn't really count since it is just colours, not full formatting, like text size < 1224191260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should probably use odf format < 1224191298 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text formatting? < 1224191308 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: TeX? < 1224191322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, no as in the formatting affected what the code meant < 1224191332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhat like colours do in ColorForth < 1224191338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :colourforth. < 1224191339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1224191348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "Well apart from ColourForth but that doesn't really count since it is just colours, not full formatting, like text size" < 1224191353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. You're wrong. :) < 1224191358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after fizzie's idea < 1224191363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"like @, only really big" < 1224191364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ColourForth can be presented in non-colour version. < 1224191375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. Chuck wrote a paper about it using italics/underline/bold. < 1224191378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you could do text size too. < 1224191382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm ok < 1224191518 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another style thing: in the "ATHR vs. REFC" the wording, while technically speaking correct, maybe a bit needlessly complicated. The REFC reference numbers don't really matter, so it probably doesn't matter if they're given out first-come-first-served or something stranger, you could just say they're global and need to work without explicit synchronization of requests. < 1224191529 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it could be just me nitpicking here. < 1224191557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, good idea < 1224191565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thanks for the comments < 1224191669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, should I attribute you with your real name or your nick in "thanks to"? < 1224191697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same question goes to Deewiant < 1224191736 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :previously you've used my name, I guess; I typically use both < 1224191738 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm never good in deciding that. Maybe real name, so prospective employers will know I do all kinds of sensible and profitable things with my time. < 1224191753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I used your name after asking you iirc < 1224191754 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Already got one summer job because of my Befunge skills. < 1224191764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what? huh? < 1224191772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort of summer job? < 1224191778 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Perl-writing. :p < 1224191790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh well I can see the logic in that yeah < 1224191810 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so I'm not entirely sure the Befunge thing had anything to do with it, but the subject came up in the interview and the people seemed at least curious about it, if not outright interested. < 1224191845 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I had "esoteric programming languages" listed as a hobby in my CV since the template had a section titled like that.) < 1224191883 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The company was Nokia; you may have heard of it.) < 1224191907 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's that mobile phone maker everyone thinks is Japanese. :p) < 1224191913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nokia? Huh? < 1224191915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who are they? < 1224191976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I know it is Finnish < 1224191978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1224191984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got a nokia phone even < 1224191993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :says 2600 < 1224191994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on i < 1224191995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1224191995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it* < 1224192002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's a mobile phone? < 1224192014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah no < 1224192016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2100 < 1224192029 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I guess most people know that, but it's an old joke that Finland's most successful company has a faux-Japanese-sounding name.) < 1224192031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, tried google? < 1224192033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to quote you < 1224192043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah no < 1224192046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ... uh, what's google? < 1224192060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry i must look like an idiot < 1224192060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::\ < 1224192075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, Don't they make wheels too iirc? < 1224192109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also how comes you didn't get that summer job? < 1224192112 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no no, just an amnesiac < 1224192118 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1224192123 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Huh? I did get it. < 1224192140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, sorry, read it as "almost" < 1224192144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not "already" < 1224192179 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's Nokian. _entirely_ different. < 1224192210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh ok < 1224192221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they got very similar names < 1224192229 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The tires and boots were part of the same Nokia company back then in the 1960s. < 1224192231 0 :Corun_!n=Corun@94-192-102-5.zone6.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1224192242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but they split up after? < 1224192244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also boots? < 1224192247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't know that < 1224192251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the tires bit < 1224192252 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rubber boots. < 1224192256 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, for rainy days. < 1224192267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah, but I use a Swedish brand < 1224192289 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ericsso boots < 1224192298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait may be Danish < 1224192301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HH is what it says < 1224192305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's Danish isn't it? < 1224192351 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats AnMaster ----###
< 1224192352 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently the tire-manufacturing part was split from the telecommunications part in 1988. < 1224192360 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :norwegian, in fact < 1224192377 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Helly Hansen, is it? < 1224192382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh ok < 1224192383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1224192385 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helly_Hansen < 1224192387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah < 1224192404 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mind you i wasn't sure myself until i googled < 1224192406 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have something of theirs to wear on the sailboat; good for that sort of thing. < 1224192413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1224192421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats oerjan for swatting then
< 1224192452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, Nokian or HH? < 1224192482 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HH. And not boots; some sort of jacket. < 1224192492 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think Nokia has done rubber boots for ages now. < 1224192504 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I'm not really sure. < 1224192521 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they still do. < 1224192543 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nokianfootwear.fi/eng < 1224192544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HH does "flytväst" too < 1224192552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea what the name is for that in English < 1224192555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :floating suite? < 1224192562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :floating jacket < 1224192563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1224192565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1224192583 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Life-vest if you mean the safety gear. < 1224192630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that < 1224192648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it is less than that and more like light weight, meant for sailing < 1224192659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is actually called a "seglarväst" < 1224192696 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, then it's more like fi:kelluntaliivi (floatation vest), distinct from fi:pelastusliivi (rescue vest) which is the more heavy-duty thing. < 1224192712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, exactly < 1224192716 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how the official definitions go. < 1224192723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "flytväst" is the heavy duty ones < 1224192734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the thing I was thinking about was the lightweight ones < 1224192738 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, okay. < 1224192752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I got one of those lightweight ones somewhere < 1224192760 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1224192765 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-39-168.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224192820 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The CE authorization thing defines the life-vest one to be something that turns you on your back and keeps the head above the water even if you're completely unconscious, while the lightweight one just helps you float if you're still operational and know how to swim. < 1224192991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well I know how to swim well, during the summer I often swim 2 km every other day for exercise < 1224192996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(spelling of last word?) < 1224193017 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exercise is fine. < 1224193024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1224193029 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The spelling, I mean. I think the practice sounds somewhat unhealthy. < 1224193042 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All that fresh air. < 1224193045 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't be good for you. < 1224193058 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION seconds that
< 1224193118 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1224193138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. I think it is better for me than being indoors all the time < 1224193140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really < 1224193153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had health problems from that before, so I decided to avoid that < 1224193285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, Deewiant : http://rafb.net/p/2zsIOB88.html < 1224193287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comments? < 1224193289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone else too? < 1224193317 0 :Corun_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Corun < 1224193324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, you got comments? < 1224193405 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too much draft. fresh air, remember? < 1224193418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, gah < 1224193496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh btw I pondered adding a section near the end called "ATHR and the effects on modern society" with the text "Not a lot." < 1224193518 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the systematic "parameters, return value, reflection info" format, it's very fastidious. < 1224193529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION googles fastidious
< 1224193538 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. (2) fastidious -- (giving careful attention to detail; hard to please; excessively concerned with cleanliness; "a fastidious and incisive intellect"; "fastidious about personal cleanliness") < 1224193542 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First sense. < 1224193561 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not "excessively concerned with cleanliness"; if you are, I don't know about it. < 1224193563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I missed it for the two last instructions < 1224193566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION reads
< 1224193581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also what about "incisive"? < 1224193592 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION fits all three, he thinks
< 1224193603 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well at one time or another < 1224193607 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's pretty much the same thing as "keen". < 1224193614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224193618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then that is me < 1224193621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a fastidious and incisive intellect" < 1224193684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You're so humble. < 1224193702 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it does have a secondary meaning of "suitable for cutting"; incision is, after all, a cut. < 1224193706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it was a joke < 1224193711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: So was mine. < 1224193727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I thought it was sarcasm? < 1224193734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait no ~, sorry < 1224193751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it was sarcasm, which was a joke. < 1224193752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also is it "signaled" or "signalled"? < 1224193759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :different spelling programs want different there < 1224193761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!??????? < 1224193784 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"signaled" is the US spelling, I think. < 1224193785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :signalled < 1224193790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah thanks < 1224193802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I use UK spelling when possible < 1224193823 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UK spelling tends to be the one with more letters. :p < 1224193835 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm sure there are exceptions, though.) < 1224193933 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And at least center/centre has the same length. But it works for aluminum/aluminium and all kinds of .*or/.*our things. < 1224193958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ize/ise? < 1224193966 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, those have the same length. < 1224193968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is .* of course in front < 1224193982 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yse/yze < 1224193986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1224194007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also is center or centre UK? < 1224194018 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Centre. < 1224194019 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are three standards: ise/yse, ize/yze, ize/yse < 1224194065 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wasn't aluminum/aluminium on that "lamest wikipedia edit wars" page? At least I remember looking at the article talk page one day and marvelling (again also US marveling) at the amount of talk about the name. < 1224194110 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems they moved it to a separate page at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Talk:Aluminium/Spelling < 1224194143 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a 116-kilobyte page. Of course some HTML overhead, but still. < 1224194186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you really want en-us and en-uk wikipedias < 1224194194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe en-au and so on too < 1224194195 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/uk/gb/ < 1224194205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, right < 1224194225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, how do they differ though? < 1224194261 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great britain is the island < 1224194271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and UK? < 1224194280 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the country < 1224194283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I probably meant UK then < 1224194298 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"UK of GB and Northern Ireland" < 1224194305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes exactly < 1224194357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, fizzie: so any comments on this version: http://rafb.net/p/tUcpyC58.html < 1224194360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are two things left: < 1224194368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rename mutexes to maybe hasps < 1224194371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something even better < 1224194383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the second issue: < 1224194392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clear up the [TODO: ...] comment < 1224194396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs some thinking about < 1224194416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and would this be something you would ever consider implementing? < 1224194421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If not: why not? < 1224194450 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe. If not: because it'd require too many changes all over the place < 1224194462 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :concurrency in imperative languages is a bit of a pain < 1224194468 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mediawiki is complicated; I had to use http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Aluminium/Spelling&action=raw to fetch the raw page source (265040 bytes) because just adding ?action=raw to the end of the URL gave me a "Raw pages must be accessed through the primary script entry point." error. < 1224194481 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I have any comments left, but I'll take a peek. < 1224194522 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather go the async-MVRS route for concurrency as I'm still not sure whether ATHR is actually useful at all. < 1224194529 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyhoo < 1224194532 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION <*> bed
< 1224194536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ok < 1224194554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, as for that error, how comes they detected the ?action bit at all < 1224194561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they did they could just have served that < 1224194573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that makes no sense < 1224194579 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'd probably have used ATHR if I were writing fungot now, but I don't think I'd have gone the MVRS route. Although I guess I could have. < 1224194579 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: in that sentence < 1224194590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guys. #notes-to-ehird. In which I am going to let you make my computer say things < 1224194592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With amazing text to speech technology < 1224194594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will be amazing. Probably < 1224194611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm < 1224194635 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ran all my IRC though the "amazing" OS 7.5.5 text-to-speech facility once for some.. hmm, maybe dozen hours. < 1224194642 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Had to turn it off after that. < 1224194662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, haha < 1224194666 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it wasn't 7.5.5; really don't remember. < 1224194710 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was 7.5.5; isn't that the latest version Apple is giving out? At least at some point there was 7.5.3 plus the 7.5.5 update available for downloading. < 1224194714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I think OS 8 had it at least < 1224194718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so quite possible < 1224194725 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was pre-8, though. < 1224194747 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7.5 had text2speech < 1224194750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1224194760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, any comments on http://rafb.net/p/tUcpyC58.html ? < 1224194772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : concurrency in imperative languages is a bit of a pain <-- well, not my problem < 1224194786 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was there before the beveled progress bars < 1224194789 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I liked the "the light that you see at the end of the tunnel is the headlights of a fast approaching train" test phrase the 'bad news' voice spoke. :p < 1224194811 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something like that, anyway. < 1224194815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hehe < 1224194823 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it looks pretty good, i'm going to take a better look in a sec < 1224194826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, most of those voices were horrible < 1224194834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, in a sec I may be asleep < 1224194848 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i'll have to comment another time :) < 1224194858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, I do read scrollback < 1224194866 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im new to the channel but im already a big fan < 1224194874 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glad to see befunge gets so much love < 1224194894 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know how finished the befunge implementation on parrot is? < 1224194901 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did Befunge before I ran across Brainfuck; it holds a special place in my heart. < 1224194903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, it is actually one of the more easy-to-use languages < 1224194908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for esoteric ones < 1224194909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is < 1224194919 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah definitely < 1224194935 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus its just such a damn cool concept < 1224194944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, what about trefunge then? < 1224194947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 6-funge < 1224194951 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't tried em < 1224194957 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like i said, im new < 1224194958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unefunge maybe? < 1224194968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is one-dimensional < 1224194972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and trefunge is 3D < 1224194979 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea of topogrphical programming is awesome < 1224194983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6-funge would be 6-dimensional < 1224194996 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i've heard about them but i havent tried them < 1224195009 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't been able to get cfunge to compile on this os x box < 1224195009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah so is it equal to a donut or a coffee cup? < 1224195009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1224195022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, oh? what error? < 1224195027 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I compiled cfunge on OS X some time ago. < 1224195030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linking error is fixed in current bzr < 1224195038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't remember if it is in last release < 1224195046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, anyway I suspect fizzie is better at helping there < 1224195047 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224195049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I use Linux < 1224195050 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was the link error < 1224195057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, about bad flags? < 1224195061 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yup < 1224195077 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll check that out < 1224195084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, look for < 1224195085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#SET_TARGET_PROPERTIES(cfunge PROPERTIES < 1224195085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# LINK_FLAGS "-Wl,-O1,--as-needed,--warn-common" < 1224195085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#) < 1224195095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except there won't be # in front < 1224195101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adding # will fix it for now < 1224195107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what current bzr head looks like < 1224195123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, that would be in CMakeLists.txt < 1224195140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I got it to compile myself recently when I had access to a mac for a bit < 1224195145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was bzr version too < 1224195166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, normally I just work on Linux and FreeBSD < 1224195188 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i prefer nixen as well < 1224195196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1224195200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mac OS X is *nix < 1224195204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sad but true < 1224195209 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, yes i know < 1224195223 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION meant foss nixen
< 1224195226 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually my OS X laptop is not online right now and I can't be bothered to start it up to test things; but the issues were pretty simple ones. < 1224195229 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give or take the f < 1224195298 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice that worked like a charm < 1224195306 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :off to work folks, i will ttyl < 1224195335 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, incidentally... does the 's' instruction also then skip the character it wrote, like ' skips the character it read? < 1224195346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes afaik < 1224195362 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it has to, since the spec says it's "mirror image of the ' instruction". < 1224195410 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just thought it'd be more useful as a "execute from stack" instruction and not a "stick a character right here" one, although obviously you can then just route the code flow through it < 1224195444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I suggest RC/Funge EXEC then < 1224195472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc it executes from stack < 1224195483 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really haven't had use for execute-from-stack yet, just wondering. < 1224195485 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1224195504 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I don't thing fungot does any self-modification whatsoever, which is pretty bad style in a Funge program I guess. < 1224195504 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: depends on how much faster but any reasonable amount wouldn't help much < 1224195531 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course it makes it easier to generate those messy graphs. :p < 1224195560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is that a good thing? < 1224195619 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I think the graph looked nice. I still want to give it to someone asking for office supplies or something and say "here's our process for doing that". < 1224195632 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks very enterprisey. < 1224195707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: make it compile the funge in the brackets to Java < 1224195707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or UML < 1224195713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brackets=bubbles < 1224195862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, is it possible to print it out? < 1224196118 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can print it scaled to fit on an A4 paper on a 600dpi laser printer so that you can _almost_ make out the labels; even read quite a large part of them if you squint real hard. < 1224196128 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On an A3-sized paper it should be reasonably legible. < 1224196149 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe on A4 too with enough tweaking of Graphviz font parameters. There's quite a lot of empty space in them bubbles. < 1224196317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is http://www.websiteoptimization.com/about/ so faaaaaast < 1224196489 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1224196620 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Abandonando" < 1224196667 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Re MVRS, I assume the "Big-Bang" instruction won't create any IPs in it? Since it's still empty and everything. So if MVRS's G/J are not well defined when ATHR is in use, a ATHR/MVRS combination will be pretty hard to use. (Not that interpreting current G/J is much more than guesswork right now.) < 1224197184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1224197203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone invent a pgp-based method to roll an N-sided dice between two people over irc :3 < 1224197224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. you can just run it and paste the resulting string to roll < 1224197235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the other person can verify the number you say was made properly randomly < 1224197237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or...something < 1224197238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know < 1224197319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you do it < 1224197337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just write a spec i guess. i can write code. but if you do not do it i will rip your eyeballs out < 1224197375 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird is so good at motivation < 1224197401 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. In principle you don't really need much for that: just require some suitable amount of input data from both participants, then compute a suitable SHA-512 hash (or some such) of the concatenation and take the result modulo N. Neither participant can then force the result to be what they want, as long as (key point) they both commit to their strings in advance before seeing the other one. < 1224197429 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can do the commit-to-one-string by requiring both participants to publish the hash of their piece of input in advance. < 1224197447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: suitable input data = /dev/random? < 1224197449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would that work? < 1224197481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideally it'd be something like "pgproll 10", paste the output (which I guess would be "rolled number (magic key thing)") < 1224197481 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably as good as you can get. Or "openssl rand". < 1224197489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1224197490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe: < 1224197502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alice rolling, bob verifying: < 1224197511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1224197518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: does yours support the model i'm thinking of? < 1224197529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm thinking of 2 people playing a dice-based game over irc < 1224197535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and person A being the dice roller < 1224197551 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both need to do some part of the rolling to prevent cheating < 1224197556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they want person B to be able to verify that the dice rolls aren't being forged < 1224197556 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think < 1224197565 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe not directly; there's the need for both participants to publish the input hashes first, and then their input strings. After that both participants can verify the result, which will be random. < 1224197571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes... that's the problem :-P < 1224197597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: how does that verify that you didn't just modify the program to pick the number you tell it to? < 1224197641 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the point with both choosing part of the number is that then neither than cheat successfully without the cooperation of the other < 1224197651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah, right < 1224197658 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, anyone can just compute the hash of those two concatenated inputs and check what the result of the roll is. < 1224197670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1224197672 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously nothing's preventing you from lying and saying "I got a natural 20". < 1224197673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just do that by: < 1224197681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :person A says 0-6 < 1224197682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1224197684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0-5 < 1224197685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :person B says 0-5 < 1224197689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add them together, there's your roll < 1224197690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1224197695 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, then person B can decide. < 1224197701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1224197704 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need both A and B to commit on their number before revealing it. < 1224197717 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore they need to publish the hashes of their selections first. < 1224197718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the commit has to happen simultaneously too, to avoid cheating < 1224197729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(its not hard to bruteforce 6 possibilities) < 1224197743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you might as well just figure out a way to do that, then just apply it to the number 0-5 < 1224197747 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's hard to bruteforce what the input will be, if it's something like a kilobyte. < 1224197773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, true. < 1224197784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still...Currently this requires _five irc messages_ < 1224197786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hash < 1224197789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hash < 1224197791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : number < 1224197793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : number < 1224197797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a checks both numbers, sums them) < 1224197799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : result < 1224197805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's...hideously unwieldy < 1224197808 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, A doesn't really need to announce the number. < 1224197816 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both participants know it already after four messages. < 1224197823 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But that's still four messages.) < 1224197859 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh actually doesn't need to reveal the hash. he can do the number first < 1224197862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but the point of having one person doing a dice roll is that they do all the work :-P < 1224197873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh, true < 1224197874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1224197876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hash < 1224197877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : number < 1224197878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : sum < 1224197879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is < 1224197883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. still quite unwieldy < 1224197886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. harder to check for b < 1224197896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(he has to subtract number from sum, then check it matches hash, etc) < 1224197907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1224197910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this could be automated with a webservice < 1224197915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i..think < 1224197918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1224197923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd need pgp in your browser < 1224197926 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1224197946 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could just use a trusted third party to do all the work. That's what normal people would do. :p < 1224197962 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There's a dice-rolling bot by that one unrelated guy, let's just use that." < 1224198056 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure you'll get to less than those three messages there with only the two people who don't trust each other. < 1224198106 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a bit of scripting three would not be too bad. < 1224198120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: There is no such thing as a trusted third party. < 1224198121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1224198139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'trusted third party' is exactly the problem with security today. < 1224198192 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a "/roll 20" command which will do I want to roll a d20, my hash is <...>; then a "/answer" command from b which will do " okay, my [1, 20] random number is "; and finally a "/foo" command for a which will do " the dice roll result was ". < 1224198211 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And b's script will add a "[verified]" message after that last line if it is okay. < 1224198225 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I couldn't think of reasonable command names, sorry. :p < 1224198256 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : needs to include salt, doesn't it < 1224198279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, but the point is if you can modify clients its a solved problem < 1224198280 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er 's last one < 1224198286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no < 1224198294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: The challenge is making it work over basic protocols we already have. < 1224198310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh. < 1224198313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i found a program to do it < 1224198346 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, you can't just hash A's number. But it's easy to hash that and a bit of randomness, and include the randomness in the last message. < 1224198362 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i meant < 1224198370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have to, just check A's first message < 1224198389 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I mean, A can't hash just the number: there's too few alternatives. < 1224198421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224198421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224198430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought http://www.aaronsw.com/2002/secroll.py did this, but it appears to be totally broken. < 1224198433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me write a program that works. < 1224198433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sec. < 1224198438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: WE CAN TEST IT TOGETHER < 1224198439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG < 1224198453 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, we can't: I'm going to sleep in 5 minutes. < 1224198480 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too < 1224198484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not going to take me 5 minutes to write it. :-P < 1224198569 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not going to take me 5 minutes to get to sleep, either. < 1224198595 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a hairy man going to come here tomorrow at 08 (in 7 hours) to install a faucet, I need to be mentally prepared for it. < 1224198601 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Okay, the hairiness is still speculation.) < 1224198754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1224198756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think 10 bits of randomness is reasonable < 1224198825 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's just n*1024 numbers to hash before finding out what A's number was, for a n-sided dice. < 1224198837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. True. < 1224198851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, how many would you suggest? 1000? :P < 1224198890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1224198896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has to be a small amount, since it will be revealed over irc. < 1224199116 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem there is that you can just precompute all the possible hash values; so it should be sufficiently large that 256*2^n bits is too much to store. < 1224199160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Um, 10^25 megabytes is too much to store. < 1224199170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, even more than that. < 1224199181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.86856262 * 10^25, even, sez google. < 1224199199 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I mean, 1000 is more than enough. But 10 is not. < 1224199226 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just meant that it's not only the speed-to-bruteforce (after all, _that_ just needs to be a minute or so) since it can be precomputed. < 1224199245 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe 50 bits would suffice; that's 10 base64-encoded characters, not a long string. Or 60, two more characters doesn't make a difference. < 1224199292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was talking about 100, btw. < 1224199302 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Well, didn't bother to check. < 1224199347 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :50 bits of randomness already means 64k terabytes of hashes even for a two-sided "die". < 1224199352 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sleep now, anyway. < 1224199369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye. < 1224199375 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye. Have fun rolling dice. < 1224199399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shall. < 1224199399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1224199994 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1224200374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: openssl question < 1224200380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ? < 1224200385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would you use "openssl rand" to generate a random number from 0 to N? < 1224200393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not great expert but I'll try < 1224200396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the minimum you can get is one byte, i.e. 0-255 < 1224200405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just moduloing that or something seems...stupid < 1224200432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems indeed to generate random bytes < 1224200439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so I got no idea if it is possible < 1224200474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1224200484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using modulo should work if you make sure that (255 * number of bytes) % the max number you want == 0 < 1224200489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it should still be uniform < 1224200495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh btw night < 1224200496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, number of bytes = 1. < 1224200497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably. < 1224200500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also night. < 1224200545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Re MVRS, I assume the "Big-Bang" instruction won't create any IPs in it? Since it's still empty and everything. So if MVRS's G/J are not well defined when ATHR is in use, a ATHR/MVRS combination will be pretty hard to use. (Not that interpreting current G/J is much more than guesswork right now.) < 1224200552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly for the latter point < 1224200557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just defined what I could < 1224201381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yay, roll.py is almost done < 1224201438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1224201439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really < 1224201906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who wants to test my magical dice roller? < 1224202285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ? < 1224202299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: GregorR oklopol < 1224202310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq. Sgeo. your mom. < 1224202344 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird ehird ehird ehird ehird ehird ehird ehird ehird < 1224202356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1224202364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: WILL YOU TEST MY IMMUNE-TO-CHEATING IRC-BASED DICE SYSTEM <3 < 1224202373 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it. < 1224202381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not < 1224202385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just copy&pasting ;_; < 1224202390 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you lamepinged me :P < 1224202402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Because nobody is onlinnnnnnnnnnnnne < 1224202403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1224202410 0 :Jiminy_Cricket!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll test it, ehird, as long as it doesn't require too much thought. < 1224202430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jiminy_Cricket: If you're on a UNIX-like system with Python, then the rest is just copy&paste from the output of a script < 1224202440 0 :Jiminy_Cricket!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I'm on Windows < 1224202455 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION stares at his beautiful running Python interpreter.
< 1224202473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jiminy_Cricket: Oh. I could make it use the equiv. to /dev/random, but, tomorrow. < 1224202476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: ^____^ < 1224202482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OKAY SO HERE'S WHAT YOU HAVE TO DO < 1224202502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll give you an initial line, which will be 'roll ' < 1224202509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Run 'python roll.py ' and paste my line in. < 1224202517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll get another line back. Paste it to the channel. < 1224202524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FInally, I'll paste the result line. < 1224202533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Paste that into the script, if it prints OK, no cheating has happened! < 1224202534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray! < 1224202550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For being my side, add an additional argument of 'alice', and do the same paste/copy dance. < 1224202556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This could be automated in a client. < 1224202563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: AND HERE IS THE SCRIPT < 1224202579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: http://pastebin.ca/raw/1228858 < 1224202585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. Here goes: < 1224202590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :roll 100 e1d33f5e2ac718ae227cf58ace285a9dfc7c49f0 < 1224202644 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rolled 3 < 1224202659 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm, wait, I think I borkled it a bit. < 1224202673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Did you run it with the second argument being 100? < 1224202680 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therein lies the problem :P < 1224202681 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rolled < 1224202682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1224202685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1224202686 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copy/paste error < 1224202688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you rolled the empty string? < 1224202689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow :D < 1224202693 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rolled 28 < 1224202702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :final roll 51 (YQjgBLnVeM3sGFNfrdTOEQV622w3S7K6tnEIEeNVLQVPw7HHBrQM3jISxYhY42oLIeU=) < 1224202735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If that prints 'OK', then the final rolled number is 51. < 1224202736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it? < 1224202746 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1224202749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay. < 1224202760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Now let's do that fast, to simulate a real-world situation. < 1224202764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :roll 100 cf620c82c9c9941ffee2e101b6383a2916515c5e < 1224202780 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rolled < 1224202782 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 < 1224202787 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suck at copy/pasting aparently. < 1224202788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :final roll 18 (ATjJBwI1F4Mp9KM2Kq3qLpoTwCG4sM7huK20GBLQeNWKEXUXEGLj6EQ9Ko31htPtoQ8=) < 1224202790 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*apparently < 1224202801 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1224202804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hooray. < 1224202814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's, basically, how it works: < 1224202823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It gets 50 bytes of random data from /dev/random. < 1224202830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seeds a prng with them. < 1224202838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It generates a random number from 0 to (sides/2). < 1224202846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It then gives you the hash of the seed. < 1224202857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, the other side does the same but prints out the number in plaintext. < 1224202876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, when 'alice' gets the number, it adds them together, and prints out the result, along with the base64-encoded text of the 50 random bytes. < 1224202887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When 'bob' puts in that, < 1224202897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it verifies that the base64 version hashes the same as the original hash < 1224202909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it seeds the prng with the bytes < 1224202916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and generates a random number, etc < 1224202923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and checks that it's equal to (final_result - bobs_number) < 1224202929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because, with the same seed, it should be the same, of course) < 1224202940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this assures that the original number was not tampered with after seeing yours < 1224202955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since both halves are involved in the creation of the final number, < 1224202961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one single party can't cheat to get a number to their advantage < 1224202966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless they can predict another system's /dev/random... :P) < 1224202969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TADA < 1224202986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Neato / not neato < 1224203003 0 :Jiminy_Cricket!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poor Alice and Bob < 1224203019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jiminy_Cricket: :o < 1224203035 0 :Jiminy_Cricket!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having to do so much work just to prevent cheating < 1224203037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I'd say the above ain't bad for a 48 lines script < 1224203070 0 :Jiminy_Cricket!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1224203085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jiminy_Cricket: Like you wouldn't cheat if, online, you were tasked with rolling the die and there was a certain number that would make you win :-P < 1224203094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although a game with something like that would be hideously imbalanced. < 1224203106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, this'd be improved with a client plugin that does it. < 1224203124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you could do /roll myotherperson 100 and the two clients would go through the motions. < 1224203135 0 :Jiminy_Cricket!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't generally play games in the first place that involve dice rolling < 1224203148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jiminy_Cricket: But what about your secret government intercepting mission plot?! < 1224203151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW WILL YOU DO THAT < 1224203157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh snap. < 1224203165 0 :Jiminy_Cricket!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The answer to that is always 42. < 1224203176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is some lame die < 1224203260 0 :Jiminy_Cricket!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1224203412 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Do it once more. < 1224203422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: You be alice this time? < 1224203431 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, the exploit is on the bob side X-P < 1224203439 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If I understand how this works) < 1224203443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :roll 100 33248a78e79acc6449bc3a33f8cfe091fca71de1 < 1224203461 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would love for this roll to be below 50, so I'm gonna go ahead and say < 1224203462 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rolled 1 < 1224203472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :final roll 22 (bKog8Sj6d+Drz08+aVajVZaRPgFCWL4HtggJZPAFSn1hkdUL2bPB6IMnOj67H4bRhUQ=) < 1224203474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah, that works. < 1224203478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can't actually precisely do anything. < 1224203488 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but usually it's the range you care about. < 1224203489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1224203492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: it's easy to fix < 1224203496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of two /2 numbers added < 1224203502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have two full numbers, added together, modulo. < 1224203515 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There ya goes. < 1224203519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOWEVER < 1224203529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That means the final answer has to have another field < 1224203537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait no < 1224203540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means it's unworkable, I think < 1224203559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: How do you get a from ((a + b) % x) if you know b and x?? < 1224203576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it even possible :| < 1224203581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or am i having a brainfart < 1224203582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at 0:33 < 1224203670 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know multiplication is not generally reversible, but addition should be. < 1224203691 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(y-b)%x where y was your result? < 1224203724 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems to work < 1224203871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: oh, right < 1224203873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll do it tomorrow < 1224203893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1224204728 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1224205893 0 :CakeProphet!n=bread@h238.32.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1224205929 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1224207846 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1224207915 0 :CakeProphet!n=bread@h37.40.18.98.dynamic.ip.windstream.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1224212827 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | after I... squash the countless bugs. < 1224213190 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey GregorR < 1224213194 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what hat did you wear today < 1224213220 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't find the one voted for so I wore my porkpie. < 1224213499 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/hats/BritDrivingCap-med.jpg < 1224213501 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one is pretty cool < 1224213890 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you should fly in on Saturday :P < 1224214374 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting... the newest noscript gives me "Clickjacking" warnings on choosemyhat.com if I click outside the table... o_O < 1224214387 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seemingly randomly, too < 1224214522 0 :immibis!n=immibis@125-236-142-205.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1224214542 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ersion nickser < 1224214545 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1224214557 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid client < 1224214610 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot hi < 1224214611 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis: is there a way to < 1224214614 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot yes < 1224214614 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis: when i flunk out of life, the universe and everything < 1224214628 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot you're not part of life the universe and everythingh < 1224214628 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis: and there's the configuration edition thingie, at least < 1224214643 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot yeah that config edition is really stupid < 1224214644 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :immibis: now, we have a /pub for images and such < 1224214653 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1224214953 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1224217412 0 :ab5tract!n=ab5tract@pool-71-246-5-13.phlapa.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1224217458 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot bring da mthfckn ruckus < 1224217458 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract: ( how did the day turn out, points of contention here: < 1224217472 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: word up < 1224217473 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract: oy vei. don't have that < 1224217488 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems you got plenty to me friend. < 1224218491 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: dig the spec < 1224218738 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :honored to take part, if you end up going with hasp < 1224219799 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the reflecting compare, but i also like the 'C|-' syntax. would it be totally unreasonable to ask for both? < 1224221897 0 :Elizabot!n=Elizabot@125-236-142-205.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1224222360 0 :Elizabot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1224222730 0 :Elizabot!n=Elizabot@125-236-142-205.broadband-telecom.global-gateway.net.nz JOIN :#esoteric < 1224222740 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving..." < 1224223929 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo elizabot: Hi. < 1224223929 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elizabot: Hi. elizabot: Hi. < 1224223931 0 :Elizabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Please go on. < 1224223932 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizabot: or, more properly, in python < 1224223932 0 :Elizabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: What does that suggest to you ? < 1224223933 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizabot: or set-car! to a non-char type analysis ( so you always get a car later) < 1224223933 0 :Elizabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Can you think of a specific example ? < 1224223934 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizabot: part of your colon? < 1224223934 0 :Elizabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Why are you concerned over my colon ? < 1224223934 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elizabot: i'm still on the todo list, but it was < 1224223935 0 :Elizabot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Is it because you are still on the todo list that you came to me ? < 1224223943 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1224224006 0 :immibis!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1224224218 0 :psygnisfive!n=psygnisf@c-71-57-164-119.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1224224419 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You get a%x from (a+b)%x if you know b and x; doesn't matter, of course, if you limit yourself to numbers in [0, x-1]. And if you noticed, I did use numbers [0, 19] for d20 precisely for that reason. < 1224225223 0 :Elizabot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1224225974 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: insane in the membrane < 1224225992 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: (insane in the BRaIN! < 1224226046 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1224226067 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your first comment crasheded it. I _really_ need to debug that bug. < 1224226071 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer) < 1224226095 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1224226191 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one is that? < 1224226201 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: is it allergic to cypress hill? < 1224226210 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: insane in the membrane < 1224226210 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract: great that you found a new spot? < 1224226239 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel that way too. #esoteric is my ideal place to be fungot, thank you for noticing < 1224226240 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract: i always start with a < 1224226277 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one, yes. Since it's in the babble-generation code, it probably doesn't depend on the input; it just happens pretty rarely. < 1224226287 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: how would you imagine the ideal funge ide < 1224226309 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you think it would be possible to write a funge ide in funge < 1224226311 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1224226333 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming AnMaster comes through with the erlang threads < 1224226336 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1224226337 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not without some GUI toolkit binding fingerprint, no. Although there's WIND, but that's windows-only and so very primitive. < 1224226365 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any gooey kits for erlang? < 1224226387 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't know about Erlang; I'm sure there are, most languages seem to have bindings. < 1224226395 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but theoretically it would be possible < 1224226403 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be pretty dope < 1224226418 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, maybe a text-based funge IDE, with TERM... but I think a GUI thing would have more opportunities for displaying things. < 1224226423 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a pretty good idea of how i would want to use it < 1224226438 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/use/implement/ < 1224226446 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1224226478 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs to be able to render the broader map < 1224226537 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then various levels of zoom and with a heirarchical fingerprint/method list < 1224226556 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way we could really start talking advantage of this 32-bit address space < 1224226569 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which we might as well bump up to 64 for fun :) < 1224226600 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the 3-d mode for trefunge... < 1224226610 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't cfunge already do that? At least it does 64-bit cells, it only stands to reason the cell addresses are 64-bit too. < 1224226626 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have to be equal to fit spec < 1224226639 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're right i forgot < 1224226685 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the spec says "A Funge-98 interpreter, *ideally*, has an addressing range equal to that of its cell size." [emphasis mine] so maybe it's not a must. < 1224226694 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh < 1224226703 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're right < 1224226704 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, given how AnMaster is, I'd be surprised if it didn't. < 1224226713 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1224228848 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@i-197.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1224228974 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1224229148 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1224229229 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: My roommates think that you look like a princess in your Egyptian Kofia. < 1224229233 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thought you should know. < 1224230399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1224230400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1224230504 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1224230761 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol roommates < 1224231262 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so oerjan < 1224231272 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1224231291 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you force interpretation of a language to be parallel? < 1224231331 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did i or did i not mention that concurrency was one of my weak points yesterday? < 1224231349 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...i wasn't here yesterday < 1224231430 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it surely depends on what you mean by 'force', since any parallel computation can be simulated on a sequential computer, just slower < 1224231447 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1224231450 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well how about this < 1224231488 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you force interpretation of a program with n instructions to take exp(n) times longer than a reasonable language? < 1224231582 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure parallel execution is enough to speed n instructions up by exp(n). < 1224231593 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks more like an NP oracle thing < 1224231610 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or PSPACE < 1224231624 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is with exp(n) threads < 1224231691 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er... so the program is making a choice in each instruction, and the threads are used to do all options for all choices simultaneously < 1224231749 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that may be a bit more than NP, but probably not more than PSPACE < 1224231751 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can optimize that though < 1224231780 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the same way you convert a nondeterministic fsm to deterministic fsm < 1224231803 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however in any case it is still an unsolved mathematical problem whether any of those are actually intrinsically slower < 1224231919 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and maybe if the parallel threads can communicate you can get something harder < 1224231933 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want an EXPTIME problem. < 1224232088 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i don't know < 1224232223 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe a syntax that takes exponential time to parse < 1224232360 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well general grammars (more than context-free) are TC to parse < 1224232379 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and context-sensitive are PSPACE-complete < 1224232736 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: forcing parallellism is one of the things I'm dealing with in my University 4th-year projects < 1224232939 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you want to force parallellism? < 1224233413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : DRAFT! DRAFT! DRAFT! DRAFT! DRAFT! DRAFT! DRAFT! DRAFT! DRAFT! DRAFT! DRAFT! < 1224233415 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I like the way that some people seem to disregard such warnings anyway < 1224233488 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :draft can be dangerous to your health you know. there was this norwegian woman who ended up with a painful disease that ruined her face... < 1224234428 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | he says there's nine bytes of padding < 1224234577 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a bit close for comfort < 1224235033 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1224235036 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have an esolang idea < 1224235038 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wanna hear? < 1224235041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224235048 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's the 3-sat thing < 1224235062 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, i think i've found a way to do numbers now < 1224235073 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by that i mean, assign rationals to the vars < 1224235081 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and perform division and multiplication between them < 1224235090 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but let's start with syntax < 1224235096 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i interrupting something? < 1224235109 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaanyway, the syntax, currently, consists of just a list of variables < 1224235116 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are four ways to denote a variable < 1224235131 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh my silent meditation, you're ruining it! < 1224235139 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ways are a..z, A..Z, .a.b.c....z, .A.B.C....Z < 1224235158 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a..z and A..Z are simply variables that aren't in any way special < 1224235176 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.a and friends are variables, that are always true with a 0.5 probability < 1224235187 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a is the negation of A, and .a is the negation of .A < 1224235195 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now < 1224235211 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the actual program consists of triples, written simply by concatenating three variables < 1224235217 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, a line of code could be < 1224235226 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Abc ABc AbC ABC < 1224235257 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means (A or not B or not C) and (A or B or not C) and ... < 1224235269 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on every line, 3-sat is run on the set of clauses < 1224235288 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now this is simple sofar, we've just set A to 1 < 1224235294 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224235299 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1224235303 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, this is the interesting part < 1224235333 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's assume we haven't set A to anything, and start with no vars set < 1224235346 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can set A to 0.5 by doing something like this < 1224235389 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A.aB A.ab a.AB a.Ab < 1224235408 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you cannot see why, which i'm assuming you don't, i can show how to deduce that < 1224235453 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we start with A = .A, because we want to set A to 0.5, that is, we want to "make A true with a 0.5 probability" < 1224235483 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(.A's value has nothing to do with A's value initially, i'm just starting naming from A with both kinds of vars) < 1224235518 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A = .A) = (a ^ .a) v (A ^ .A) < 1224235580 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i actually used a truth table, thought i could deduce this easily :P < 1224235581 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmhmm < 1224235612 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a ^ .a) v (A ^ .A) = (a ^ .a ^ b) v (A ^ .A ^ B) v (a ^ .a ^ b) v (A ^ .A ^ b) < 1224235625 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is clearly true, we've added a variable that, given either value, makes this true < 1224235665 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, we should turn the minterm representation into a maxterm one < 1224235697 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we take all the cases that make the statement false < 1224235730 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, (A ^ .a ^ b) v (A ^ .a ^ B) v (a ^ .A ^ b) v (a ^ .A ^ b) < 1224235748 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we kinda flip it, to get < 1224235766 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(A v .a v b) ^ (A v .a v B) ^ (a v .A v b) ^ (a v .A v b) < 1224235804 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then it's a simply syntactic manipulation to get A.aB A.ab a.AB a.Ab < 1224235811 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1224235837 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i actually had an error there, let's see where i made it... < 1224235842 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should've prepared this :P < 1224235852 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah don't worry < 1224235860 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you get it? < 1224235860 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try preparing and then pastebinning < 1224235865 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, I haven't done yet < 1224235871 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I haven't really being paying attention < 1224235875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still in go-through-email phase < 1224235879 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1224235881 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I was planning to logread it later < 1224235892 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah i see < 1224235901 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well perhaps i'll do it properly in a pastebin < 1224235924 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1224235934 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems i need to go now. be back as soon as possible < 1224235942 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because this is not even the interesting part yet < 1224235944 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1224236118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : assuming AnMaster comes through with the erlang threads < 1224236119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Still, given how AnMaster is, I'd be surprised if it didn't. < 1224236121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1224236176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Doesn't cfunge already do that? At least it does 64-bit cells, it only stands to reason the cell addresses are 64-bit too. <-- well yeah < 1224236181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and efunge have bignum cells < 1224236213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hi btw < 1224236223 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi AnMaster < 1224236232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, have you seen the ATR spec? < 1224236239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait yeah you posted the DRAFT bit < 1224236244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, well allowing for the typo yes < 1224236255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what typo? < 1224236259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ATR spec" < 1224236263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1224236283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I just had breakfast, and I'm not a person that is good with mornings < 1224236290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, same < 1224236295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I'm alright with mornings < 1224236300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only if I've had a good night's sleep < 1224236300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway, any comments on the spec? < 1224236303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I haven't < 1224236310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also mutex needs to be renamed < 1224236316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hasp" was a good suggestion < 1224236321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you got something better? < 1224236329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lock is too common as well < 1224236330 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't normally deal with that sort of threading stuff < 1224236341 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the threading stuff I deal with is much crazier < 1224236345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is "mutex" and "lock" are too common words < 1224236347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for this < 1224236357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I need a better, more original name < 1224236357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it like INTERCAL, have commands which dynamically delete themselves from the playfield when encountered < 1224236364 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :atomically with whatever it is they were meant to be doing in the first place < 1224236369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1224236390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, making stuff atomic here isn't very easy I'm afraid :/ < 1224236417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, either it is async message passing (or blocking waiting for reply) < 1224236433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it is the set of actions restricted by ets tables < 1224236442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1224236452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the G P and C will need some complex locking < 1224236458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah for C to work < 1224236476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that an implementation _may_ make g, p and other such instructions < 1224236476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :synchronous as well, but it is not guaranteed. Block access should never be < 1224236476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :synchronous. < 1224236484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least to begin with that will be true < 1224236489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for my implementation < 1224236501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g, p and such will be sync as well that is < 1224236552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway do you have any knowledge of pthreads? Would this be painful to implement there? < 1224236566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have much knowledge of pthreads, and no idea < 1224236570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1224236628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be reasonably ok in erlang, only need G,P and C to handle a global lock there, since there is no atomic thing I can use as C on ets tables < 1224237366 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :be back soon, rebooting (I've just upgraded the kernel) < 1224239382 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p545622444.txt < 1224239387 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: back yet? < 1224239393 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224239399 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can find out by /pinging me < 1224239410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I'm not here you won't get a reply < 1224239447 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check that out, probably doesn't make that much sense, in which case you can ask further questions < 1224239450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I got a reply sometimes when you said just a few minutes after that your connection had failed < 1224239452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so hm < 1224239453 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming you'll read that at some point < 1224239472 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you have to wait for the bouncer to notice I'm not here first < 1224239476 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i hope you do, because i think it's a pretty interesting idea < 1224239570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, a question about that < 1224239573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(B = .A) ^ (c v C) < 1224239583 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes? < 1224239589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, are C and c variables? < 1224239591 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224239596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, and v? < 1224239598 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c is the negation of C, as i explain there < 1224239599 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1224239603 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"v" is "or" < 1224239611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, ".[A-Z] (and .[a-z]) denote variables (and their negations)" < 1224239615 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"^" is "and" < 1224239617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it is inconsistent < 1224239634 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1224239639 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should've escaped . i guess < 1224239648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, hm? < 1224239656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you need .c and .C? < 1224239660 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.[A-Z] as in, "\.[A-Z]" < 1224239661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that could work < 1224239671 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.[A-Z] aren't normal variables < 1224239673 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[A-Z] are < 1224239676 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: .[A-Z] is perfectly good wildmat syntax < 1224239691 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.[A-Z] (and .[a-z]) denote variables (and their negations) that are true with a 0.5 possibility < 1224239696 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1224239704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah, the issue was it seemed to suggest that v was also a variable < 1224239709 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems i've removed the line that explains actual variables :P < 1224239714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, yep < 1224239727 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well that's not the actual language's syntax, just logic to show how to deduce the program < 1224239756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, still better explain variables too < 1224239779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, is it turing complete or not? < 1224239867 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is it'll be turing-complete once oklopol figures out how to do flow control < 1224239877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224239940 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224239951 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sofar, i've only solved the issue of infinite storage < 1224239984 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: is it retrievable, though < 1224239989 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see how to store rationals into variables < 1224239992 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224239993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how do you get them back out again? < 1224239996 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1224240003 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'm not *entirely* sure < 1224240017 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can "or" variables to get them to grow in probability < 1224240033 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'm pretty sure you can somehow encode integers that can be inc'd and dec'd < 1224240052 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1224240054 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224240066 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it's 3-sat, i'm pretty sure it's a two-way operation < 1224240067 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but being able to tinker with a probability is no good if you can't find out what it is < 1224240070 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can do something like < 1224240074 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224240082 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i could make things depend on whether something is 1 < 1224240085 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1224240088 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 can represent 0 < 1224240091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : are there any gooey kits for erlang? < 1224240091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Don't know about Erlang; I'm sure there are, most languages seem to have bindings. < 1224240093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there is gs < 1224240097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which uses tk < 1224240099 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 1/(2^n) can represent n < 1224240110 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, i can inc and dec as much as i want, and branch on 0 < 1224240116 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what register machines do < 1224240121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also seen some custom GUI toolkit rendered to opengl < 1224240125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :used by wings3d < 1224240131 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "erlgtk" in sf.net. < 1224240132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 3d modeller coded in erlang < 1224240137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm, erlqt? < 1224240154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway gs is there by default < 1224240162 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, A = B + 1: A = B ^ .A; A = B - 1: B = A ^ .A < 1224240200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is used for the erlang debugger and some other bits < 1224240212 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: got it? < 1224240236 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1224240256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on probability 1 seems a bit non-physical, really < 1224240259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I suppose it makes sense < 1224240270 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :atm, I'm just annoyed with this VHDL project I'm doing < 1224240279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote it recursively originally but it crashed the compiler < 1224240286 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I even got the compiler to segfault at one point) < 1224240288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway I guess one could provide bindings for esdl to efunge... Would be pretty mad probably < 1224240290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I rewrote it iterativel < 1224240293 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*iteratively < 1224240300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might as well have "evaluate erlang term" or such < 1224240302 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a pain for parallelised mergesort < 1224240337 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, now I'm trying it on a different compiler < 1224240341 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's reporting an internal error < 1224240345 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even for the iterative version < 1224240349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not very helpful < 1224240360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the line number it gives is in its own source code, only it's closed-source... < 1224240371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about using an open source one? < 1224240401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am, for simulation < 1224240402 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: non-physical? i'm using an np-complete operation as the basic unit of computation, you think i care? :P < 1224240409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: OK < 1224240419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and report that internal error as a bug to the developers < 1224240420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but you need proprietary synthesisers to synthesise for proprietary FPGAs < 1224240426 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the ones we have to use in the assignment < 1224240427 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably already tc if i just add a while loop. < 1224240455 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming i have a scope for the loops < 1224240461 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... not only is there an internal error, but the webpage that's meant to describe what the error is is 404 < 1224240471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ok that sucks < 1224240472 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I have to guess what the problem is < 1224240499 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably it's what VHDL was warning me about, for loops with exponentiation in the calculation of their bounds < 1224240529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and how do you avoid that? < 1224240529 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(VHDL is very weird, most langs wouldn't care about something like that, but you have to understand that synthesis-VHDL has + - and *, but / is only possible by a constant power of 2, for instance) < 1224240549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: my guess is to pass the entity both the number of bits and 2 to its power as generics < 1224240558 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then loop too many times and use ifs to do nothing when the loop counter is too high < 1224240560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1224240563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounded strange < 1224240569 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VHDL is strange < 1224240603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the only lang I know of where arrays are normally numbered backwards < 1224240612 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. the first element is some large number, the last element is 0 < 1224240626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why on earth? < 1224240641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because an integer is normally represented as an array of bits < 1224240645 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's the way bits are normally numbered < 1224240654 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gets very confusing trying to do it the other way round < 1224240662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1224240699 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone have ideas for a name for a language based on doing 3-sat with probabilities? < 1224240702 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say you have 128, as a std_logic_vector < 1224240706 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: this may be your field < 1224240714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you want to extract the least significant bit < 1224240724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slicing it with (0) makes a lot more sense than slicing it with (7) < 1224240729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yep, that depends on endianness < 1224240741 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you define the endianness yourself in VHDL < 1224240746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about if you want the most significant bit then? < 1224240750 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't like acronyms, i prefer puns of some kind < 1224240759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but bits within a byte are nearly always big-endian in practice < 1224240771 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you could write that as myvector'left < 1224240777 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, myvector(myvector'left) < 1224240789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does x86 have a bitendianness? < 1224240791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1224240802 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what is this x86 you're talking about? < 1224240808 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is VHDL a Lesser Language than Verilog? < 1224240815 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: they started out different < 1224240823 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by that i mean more low-level < 1224240824 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but after a while all the features from each were added to the other < 1224240828 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1224240832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, don't be silly, I was just wondering if bits are little- or big-endian on x86 < 1224240834 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just know verilog < 1224240836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so nowadays they're the same lang with different syntax < 1224240857 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the x86 doesn't have bit-extract operations IIRC < 1224240861 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's nice, syntax is what i learn the fastest < 1224240874 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the processors I know of that do number bits big-endian though < 1224240878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed it doesn't, but internally it need to have some endianess for them < 1224240883 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1224240884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1224240889 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bits are on parallel wires, normally < 1224240892 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no ideas for the name? guess i need to switch my brain to text mode < 1224240903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about serial interfaces then? < 1224240906 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're usually in math mode when designing the language < 1224240911 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: they can be defined either way round < 1224240922 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure offhand which RS-232 is < 1224240926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ok, what about sata? < 1224240927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is embarrasing because I ought to be < 1224240959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, "they"? < 1224240977 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i use plural and singular interchangeably when talking about brains < 1224241018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah the English way is pretty strange there... in Swedish you would use something like brainhalf when referring to the left or right part < 1224241079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: apparently SATA doesn't use either, it uses a lookup table to translate bytes into something more balanced < 1224241097 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :computers are fine with a glut of 1s or 0s < 1224241102 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fun thing about loops is, this language is like prolog in that nothing you state is forgotten, ever, unless things go out of scope < 1224241108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but fast cables don't like sending the same bit lots of times in a row < 1224241117 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the program is just an incredibly big set of clauses :P < 1224241122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh < 1224241127 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's try writing an infinite loop and invent flow control < 1224241140 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically it uses a lookup table to map the 256 possible bytes onto sets of 10 bits with balanced 0s and 1s < 1224241145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus no endianess involved < 1224241188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about using more than 1/0 when sending, having say 1,1.5,2,2.5 or so < 1224241209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't help in practice for digital signals < 1224241216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean generically it ought to be good data compression < 1224241222 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the data rate stays the same, because the noise susceptability gets worse < 1224241228 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so say you use 4 logic levels < 1224241237 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to halve the speed to keep the signal/noise performance the same < 1224241242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, did anyone ever use that on old modems to provide higher speed? < 1224241268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seriously doubt it, doubling the clock rate is normally a lot cheaper in circuitry than doubling the number of logic levels < 1224241274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm < 1224241276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1224241278 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, that sort of technique is used on radio signals all the time < 1224241283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1224241284 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as they don't have constant voltages anyway < 1224241288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean for vlan and such? < 1224241290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1224241291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wlan* < 1224241306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that sort of thing < 1224241312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1224241313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also on wires which are sending waves rather than pulses < 1224241323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's less common, normally only used for fibre optics and such < 1224241327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224241335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because light is inherently a wave < 1224241348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, as well as a particle :P < 1224241370 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224241381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the wave-like nature matters more if you're sending with lots of photons at once < 1224241389 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which most communication systems do < 1224241412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway having 4 logic levels would allow you to encode bit-pairs. like 00 01 10 11 < 1224241440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which ought to double the speed in theory < 1224241514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't even need to describe an uneven number of bits, since bytes are 8 bits and you never send anything less than bytes anyway < 1224241722 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1224241899 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan: this may be your field < 1224241903 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no immediate ideas < 1224241926 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p633146536.txt <<< using the vars as numbers < 1224241951 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, NoProb pops up < 1224241968 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a justification for No? < 1224241980 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only to make the pun work < 1224241989 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the initials < 1224241993 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1224241996 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow i missed that < 1224242032 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you see, i need to be able to explain all the parts of the name to myself < 1224242038 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :out of the realm of the pun < 1224242053 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be completely sensible both as a pun and as just a name < 1224242054 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1224242085 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a good name < 1224242092 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1224242103 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thankses! < 1224242112 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmhmm < 1224242138 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looping is a bit hard to do, because i don't want to do it like prolog does, and i don't want mutable variables < 1224242171 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i want an explicit looping construct with scoping so i can create new variables < 1224242205 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1224242221 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i'll just start from the top, and convert something prolog-like into < 1224242224 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :explicit looping < 1224242263 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, basically i want a construct that simulates tail-recursion < 1224242338 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a while loop that's basically a procedure, the "scope" is simply the list of arguments, and after the loop, we recurse with some variables we created in the body as the new arguments < 1224242349 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll try making an example < 1224242368 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, the lecturer here has solved my VHDL compiler problem < 1224242372 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by giving me a third compiler < 1224242383 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and it seems to handle the code fine) < 1224242864 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, VHDL is the only lang I think I've ever written a for loop which only ever iterates once < 1224242922 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always exactly once? or once or zero < 1224242930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always exactly once < 1224242947 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this seemed like a good idea at the time? < 1224242955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still seems like a good idea now < 1224242957 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it saved a lot of typing < 1224242973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically I used it to define a variable at compile-time < 1224242976 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'm pretty sure he's written brainfuck, and i'm pretty sure he's done ifs < 1224242978 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except < 1224242980 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a constant with a calculated value < 1224242981 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're while-loops < 1224242985 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ignore me. < 1224243002 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by having it at both ends of the control range < 1224243009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and using the iteration count as a constant < 1224243024 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for-generate loops are always unrolled at compile time in VHDL < 1224243029 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm taking advantage of that here < 1224243113 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this just a way to simulate functional-style let expressions? < 1224243123 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224243154 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that the expression in question is (2**inputcountbits)*((depth*(depth-1)/2)-1)+(2**depth)*height, I think it was justified < 1224243168 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I use that value 12 times within the 'loop' < 1224243181 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just surprised there is no simpler way < 1224243200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally speaking people don't do expressions that complicated at compile-time < 1224243210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I even have a compile-time bit-reversal function < 1224243214 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's written as a procedure < 1224243226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can do that because it's never involved in the control variable of a for-generate loop < 1224243238 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah so it's something Man was not meant to do < 1224243254 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly some good Mad Science, then < 1224243263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, more to the point, it's because most of VHDL is deliberately limited to simple stuff < 1224243270 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because most VHDL synthesisers are stupid < 1224243286 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance there are some cases where and isn't commutative < 1224243299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simply because if you write the arguments the other way round, the synthesiser won't recognise the idiom < 1224243312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so one way round works, the other is a compile failure < 1224243418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so non-idiomatic VHDL is a bad idea? < 1224243422 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224243427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1224243430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to memorise the idioms more or less < 1224243449 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... it's sufficiently annoying, actually, that I'm thinking about writing a compiler from non-idiomatic VHDL to idiomatic VHDL < 1224243469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which let you express all the things which are very difficult to express in idiomatic VHDL < 1224243493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heheh... < 1224243528 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, it took me about an hour to figure out how to express a latch that can be sampled at the leading edge of any of a set of clocks < 1224243537 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it involves a latch for each clock, and lots of XORs < 1224243559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so each clock toggles one latch whenever it wants to toggle the output, and the latch's outputs are xored together < 1224243608 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nonidiomatically you just need to write leading_edge(clock1) or leading_edge(clock2), which is so much simpler... < 1224243760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1224243798 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, going to get lunch now, I'll be back in a bit < 1224244258 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais is 523 feet tall < 1224244622 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, i think the language's semantics are complete now, and i think it's TC, but it's so weird i'm not sure i have the courage to spec it. < 1224244632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye ais523 < 1224244638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and hi ais523) < 1224244783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:20:19 ehird: You get a%x from (a+b)%x if you know b and x; doesn't matter, of course, if you limit yourself to numbers in [0, x-1]. And if you noticed, I did use numbers [0, 19] for d20 precisely for that reason. < 1224244796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but, there are two rolls of sides that added mod sides < 1224244873 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's what I did. < 1224244927 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" I want to roll a d20, my hash is -- okay, my [1, *20*] random number is " < 1224244993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the point is, at the end, you have to use the crazy hash data to seed the prng, generate a number (which will be equal to a's!!), then check that it's alice's part < 1224244995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if ((alices_num + num) % sides) == final: < 1224244997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems to work fine < 1224245024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: version 2.0: http://pastebin.ca/raw/1229263 < 1224245039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usage: 'python roll.py [sides|100]' < 1224245050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you add 'alice' to the end of the arguments, you are the diceroller persony thing. < 1224245063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When it outputs a line, paste it to IRC, when you get a line from IRC, paste it in. < 1224245066 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looking. < 1224245084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody apart from me has tested being alice, so feel free to do that if you want. < 1224245261 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I see the need of the PRNG there, instead of just taking the seed modulo sides. It's random, already. < 1224245284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops there's a bug on b's side. < 1224245288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :change sides/2 to sides < 1224245305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: because it didn't have an even distribution when i tried that < 1224245314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had a strong bias to small numbers. < 1224245331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah if you want to test it changes sides/2 to sides and run it as 'python roll.py 100 alice' :-P < 1224245360 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's strange, /dev/random bits should be uniformly distributed. < 1224245379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: They are, but play up when modulo'd. < 1224245413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it'd work if the sides were divisible by the number of the bits or some silly thing like that < 1224245422 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be a pretty small bias when you have a big number (is that 50 bytes?) and are computing modulo a small number of sides. < 1224245439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh, yeah, 50 bytes. And, well, the sides is arbitary. < 1224245442 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess involving the PRNG can help, though. < 1224245451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been testing with 100 sides, but 10 sides and 1000 sides are perfectly reasonable. < 1224245518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" I think it'd work if the sides were divisible by the number of the bits or some silly thing like that" <-- you need the MAX_INT_FOR_YOUR_SIZE % MAX_SIDES == 0 < 1224245523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1224245534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right.. < 1224245538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Right. < 1224245542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I've brought the PRNG in. < 1224245544 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bias, yes, I just wonder how easy it should be to notice. < 1224245565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright. should we test? Let's do 1000 sides, for the novelty. I'll be bob. < 1224245570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, depends on the values of MAX_INT_FOR_YOUR_SIZE and MAX_SIDES < 1224245638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doo doo < 1224245674 0 :jix!n=jix@lbck-4dbaf483.pool.einsundeins.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1224245747 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean... if you take a uniformly distributed unsigned 32-bit number, so [0, 4294967295], and do modulo 1000, you still get a probability of .00099999983585 for [0, 295] and .00100000006868 for [296, 999]. That's something that's not very noticeable. < 1224245751 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see. < 1224245769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but, 10 sided dice. < 1224245771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are far more common :-P < 1224245793 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and the bias is even smaller there. < 1224245864 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.09999999990686774 vs. .10000000013969 for ranges [0, 5] and [6, 9]. < 1224245885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, shush you. :-P < 1224245893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any actual _advantages_? < 1224245914 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Less complex, and you don't have to trust your PRNG to do anything sensible. Not much else. < 1224245960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1224245970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, fine, I'll make it do that < 1224245981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you're a communist. :| < 1224246002 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1224246006 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to do it without bias, you'll need to take a number in range [0, K] where K % sides == 0; you can do that by discarding unfun values. < 1224246010 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, roll 1000 c21ca587f12bd71d1ac8b2e99c5cc3d7a9541efe < 1224246021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, wait < 1224246023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm patching it < 1224246023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1224246026 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. :/ < 1224246047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, my email is broken atm < 1224246055 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the University's server admins strike again... < 1224246070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://pastebin.ca/raw/1229270 < 1224246083 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the Door has gone through a whole load of revisions since Wednesday, it seems < 1224246089 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :atm it lets me in and out, but not anybody else... < 1224246101 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1224246115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: why the yay? < 1224246116 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway... you can do "limit = max_int / sides * sides" (if you have a truncating division) and then reading random numbers as long as you get something that's = sides. < 1224246119 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the admins are regularly on strike? < 1224246134 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no, just incompetent AFAICT < 1224246137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Is the bias ever really that bad? < 1224246145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe competent just Exchange is good enough at breaking to beat them regularl < 1224246148 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*regularly < 1224246161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I mean, the PRNG is effectively 0-bias. < 1224246167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And... that's a good thing in a dice roller. < 1224246169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say. < 1224246199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I have a new mouse now, not that that's particularly relevant < 1224246200 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That just depends on how Python implements the .randint(0, sides) part. < 1224246205 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bought it about 10 mins ago because the last one broke < 1224246218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Mersenne Twister, I believe. < 1224246223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: congrats < 1224246239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even better, this is Linux, so I can just ignore the install CD < 1224246248 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the PRNG, but it doesn't say anything how Python reduces it to that range, since that's what causes the bias in the straight-forward modulo thing. < 1224246256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, :) < 1224246264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, as for that door, weird... < 1224246267 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if move-mouse-wheel-sideways does anything, or is even detected by Linux
< 1224246283 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not, as Emacs seems not to notice it < 1224246284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah that I can help with I think < 1224246285 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simply using the computing the next PRNG state and using that modulo N won't help with the bias except that it will bias something else than the small numbers consecurively. < 1224246291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm not sure what I'd do with it anyway < 1224246292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it needs a bit of work in xorg.conf < 1224246302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not mouse driver, but evdev < 1224246304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it won't work < 1224246309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1224246313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it meant to do, btw? < 1224246319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Okay, true. < 1224246322 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even on Windows? < 1224246323 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p543544164.txt <<< a short program written in a noprob wimpmode < 1224246325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, scroll sideways < 1224246326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, http://pastebin.ca/raw/1229270, and let's try. :-P < 1224246329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe < 1224246335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hokay < 1224246336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here goes < 1224246340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, that isn't a particularly common operatoin < 1224246343 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm already trying, but it's horribly slow. There's not much entropy going in that box. < 1224246343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, quite good in, say, gimp or similar < 1224246344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test 1 of version 2 of the amazing < 1224246347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amaaaaaaazing < 1224246351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it all depends on what you do < 1224246356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DISTRIBUTED CHEAT-PROOF DICE ROLLER < 1224246357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it happens on a web page, I hold middle mouse button and use autoscroll (I have firefox set to autoscroll) < 1224246371 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, and I don't do much graphics, that probably explains it < 1224246390 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries again when the traffic dies down a bit
< 1224246400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I'm looking at that link now < 1224246412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... now I want to invent a mouse which has a trackball under each finger < 1224246418 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each of which can be clicked downwards as well as moved < 1224246421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway evdev is a generic thing that can handle most types of HID devices basically < 1224246429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: For me it's instant. I think OS X /dev/random uses Yarrow... < 1224246436 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not that good at speccing, i either give examples or just formally define how to run the language. < 1224246440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err that would be silly "HID devices" since HID means Human Interface Device iirc < 1224246441 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i usually take the example road < 1224246443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, it's instantaneous for me < 1224246459 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf does "Probloture" mean? < 1224246461 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't really a spec, but perhaps gives you an idea how problotures work < 1224246462 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1224246464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I got the money to buy a HID device from the ATM machine, but I had to enter my PIN number and I got RAS syndrome. < 1224246465 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a procedure < 1224246471 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can only do tail-recursive calls < 1224246475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hehe < 1224246487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is RAS? Remote Access Service? < 1224246490 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kinda like a lambda that cannot be passed to other lambdas, but it's implicitly passed itself. < 1224246494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Redundant Acronym Syndrome syndrome < 1224246496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look it up < 1224246499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1224246530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and ATM would be Async Transfer Mode to me < 1224246549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Automated Teller Machine. < 1224246550 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: procedure + block = probloture < 1224246552 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1224246554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah, ok < 1224246564 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i couldn't find a sillier way to mix those together < 1224246570 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, though, redundant RAS syndrome is just a syndrome caused by redundant use of acronyms < 1224246570 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Don't know about OS X; at least on Linux reading from /dev/random will block until the kernel thinks it's seen enough entropy to actually return random numbers; and there's not many entropy sources on that box. I assume it uses interrupt timing as one source, but since there's no keyboard/mouse it won't get those very much either. < 1224246579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also clicking middle button can be a bit hard with a tilting scrollwheel, at least it took a while to learn it for me < 1224246584 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there it goes: roll 1000 e62a7161266e41a150dd47f895c3fd3bcccd332d < 1224246592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, since if the wheel is tilted the click doesn't register < 1224246599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: rolled 664 < 1224246602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :may be different for you < 1224246607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: on Linux read from /dev/urandom instead if you want it to invent slightly less random numbers rather than waiting for entropy < 1224246614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, I want true randomness < 1224246631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, even /dev/random isn't truly random < 1224246636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i'm paranoid enough to make it distribute over 2 users to eliminate cheating i'm paranoid enough to make sure it's truly random < 1224246637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no < 1224246639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's closer than urandom < 1224246650 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: This is dice-rolling, after all! You can't be too careful. < 1224246652 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you realize there is no t in either of the mixed words? < 1224246662 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::d < 1224246663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Did you notice my reply? < 1224246666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Paste it into the program. :P < 1224246667 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no i didn't :P < 1224246668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: t is a contraction of cd in this case < 1224246675 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224246677 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Nope. < 1224246678 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1224246684 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: looks interesting, I think I get how it works < 1224246685 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah i guess it just sounded better. < 1224246686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: rolled 664 < 1224246699 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's some nasty assimilation < 1224246706 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that was the closest to while-loops i could get without adding mutability < 1224246709 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :final roll 745 (GaA7CjB9HcbwBdFkwZzBe1lsln6sl8JlOe6ZqVT0erl2JyPWGHNG3gnUdzSeHLKARMk=) < 1224246711 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or lambdas, or procedures < 1224246716 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't want any of those < 1224246716 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by "mutability" here? < 1224246723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, my program says you're not a cheating communist. < 1224246735 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that a variable could change value because of something other than backtracking. < 1224246739 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1224246746 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, how do you do the equivalent of an if? < 1224246747 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything that's stated must always be true < 1224246751 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: implication < 1224246757 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should've tried to cheat. < 1224246761 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see the example in the end < 1224246773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1224246777 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very VHDL, really < 1224246786 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except VHDL doesn't do backtracking < 1224246803 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... NoProb : Prolog :: VHDL : C < 1224246809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one strange analogy < 1224246816 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps something like that :P < 1224246829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NoProb? < 1224246834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that language < 1224246836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oklopol's 3-sat language < 1224246837 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the language i made today < 1224246839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224246843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why that name? < 1224246855 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NoProb, NP, 3-sat is an np-complete problem < 1224246859 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's a very oklo sort of name < 1224246863 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prob because there's probabilities involved < 1224246865 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because all the vowels are o < 1224246866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224246870 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the name was from oerjan < 1224246878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should have guessed < 1224246893 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders how easy it would be to write English without a, e, i, or u
< 1224246894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that oerjan did it) < 1224246914 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: also I can middle-click even with a tilted scroll wheel < 1224246924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah, what mouse is it then? < 1224246930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's from Toshiba < 1224246934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1224246935 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not so good to do < 1224246937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is it large? < 1224246942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :larger than my old mouse < 1224246948 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... < 1224246950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I have issues finding a large enough mouse, or even large enough keyboard < 1224246952 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be interesting carting it around in a laptop bag, I suppose... < 1224246953 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how the fuck can i implement that < 1224246961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a full size pc keyboard is about as small as I can handle < 1224246967 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1224246968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would prefer slightly larger < 1224246975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I got big hands < 1224246981 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you should get a projection keyboard, and put it further away from the table < 1224246986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but those take a lot of getting used to < 1224246998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have tiny hans < 1224247000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hands < 1224247009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I also like "deep" keyboards, so laptop ones are horrible, the keys should go down properly < 1224247016 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to imagine AnMaster using an iPhone
< 1224247019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :full-sized php keyboards suck, this apple keyboard is stretching it a bit < 1224247024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't reach the very top keys < 1224247025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'd rather not < 1224247029 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ah, ok, projection keyboards are famous for the keys not going down at all < 1224247042 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could solve 3-sat with brute-force and a few optimizations, the problem is, there are probabilities, so really i'm solving the #P version of it, because i need to enumerate all ways to get truth out of a statement < 1224247044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the iphone keyboard isn't actually that bad once you get used to it... < 1224247049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my recent agora mails where sent with it < 1224247054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(post-2am bst last night) < 1224247056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it probably depends on how big yout hands are < 1224247064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you use one single finger... < 1224247064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it seems only Microsoft make reasonably sized mice < 1224247068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or two thumbs < 1224247069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is bloody strange < 1224247089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet those mice are at least usable even though they are about 1 cm too short < 1224247090 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another problem are the recursion vars < 1224247094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft don't make mice at all, the Microsoft mice are Logitech mice with a different logo on IIRC < 1224247113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the Logitech ones I seen have been smaller and harder to use < 1224247123 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, probably they're different hardware specs < 1224247124 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know about Microsoft today, but they certainly weren't logitech mice around the Intellimouse Explorer time. < 1224247129 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1224247137 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem somehow needs to evaluate 3-sat *lazily*, and still *enumerate all possible ways to get 1*, if it's not lazy, it will infloop, if it doesn't enumerate all possibilities, it cannot calculate probabilities < 1224247138 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, does anyone else use less to read email, or is it just me? < 1224247144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: are your hands like... joseph merricks < 1224247147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well mine says "Microsoft Comfort Optical Mouse 3000" < 1224247149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just you < 1224247152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, like who? < 1224247162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Joseph_Merrick the elephant man < 1224247166 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, i guess this is my everest, not yours, i think i'll read something < 1224247168 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1224247181 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How long is that Comfort three thousand? < 1224247185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no... < 1224247187 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I've realised that all my 4 or so outstanding problems to solve before I can implement Feather are actually the same problem < 1224247211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm just large. Around 190 cm iirc (189.7 cm I think last I checked) < 1224247225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that is pretty tall < 1224247236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well yeah, I'm tallest in family < 1224247254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know centimeters for height < 1224247256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bizzarely < 1224247256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the outstanding problem in Feather is: to determine what in the program after a change corresponded to what before a change < 1224247260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(about 3 cm longer than my dad, and 5 cm longer than mom.) < 1224247267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well try google then < 1224247268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: there are 39 inches in a metre, you can calculate it from that < 1224247272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1224247274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: also "taller" not "longer" when talking about people < 1224247275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just commenting < 1224247277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since i just realised < 1224247281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah right < 1224247285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know some things in metric and some in imperial < 1224247291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same word for both in Swedish... < 1224247307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, there's no real reason to draw a distinction < 1224247314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (about 3 cm longer than my dad, and 5 cm longer than mom.) <- heh, this is a rather unfortunate slip derived from being non-native... < 1224247320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in English, I think "taller" is normally used for things that are generally measured upwards < 1224247327 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as people < 1224247328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, which is bloody weird < 1224247329 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or tall buildings < 1224247335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ^ < 1224247338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant < 1224247342 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas longer is used for something that's measured horizontally, like snakes < 1224247354 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in finnish, we have separate words for tall and long, except we still use long for people :P < 1224247356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about diagonally? < 1224247366 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hmm... that's an interesting point < 1224247373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably I'd use "long" for 45 degrees < 1224247382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and for 46? < 1224247383 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saying someone is tall would be like saying they're "high" < 1224247384 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it would become more likely to be "tall" as it became more vertical < 1224247390 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except without the drug connotation < 1224247391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ok.. < 1224247406 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably it wouldn't be consistent from one speaker to another, probably not even from one speaker to themself < 1224247412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes, it's a stupid distinction < 1224247427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've always been the smallest person in any group of my age < 1224247431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah oklopol, you could use "högt" (high) about a building or so < 1224247441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION didn't invent English, and normally finds themself agreeing with foreigners when they complain about English being stupid
< 1224247444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Swedish < 1224247446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :honestly, i'm about as big as a 9 year old < 1224247450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but long would also work I think < 1224247472 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in English "high" would refer to the object itself being a long way above ground, rather than the top of the object < 1224247484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for buildings sometimes we use "high" anyway despite that rule < 1224247492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, "that building is really high" < 1224247494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, a tall tower or a high tower? < 1224247497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything in English seems to have exceptions < 1224247498 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: both < 1224247499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a nice interpretation of that is that the building is on drugs) < 1224247503 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they mean the same thing < 1224247511 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only for buildings, for some reason < 1224247513 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: so, basically, you decided to stop growing your body and used excess on your brain? < 1224247522 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a tall aeroplane and a high aeroplane would be quite different < 1224247526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no, but it would be amusing to have a huge bulging head < 1224247528 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning you're actually 15 on irc < 1224247538 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or err 16-17 < 1224247542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, an aircraft located at a high altitude? < 1224247545 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224247553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to an aircraft which measured a lot from top to bottom < 1224247555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1224247557 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: excess in years, not size < 1224247557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/77l5b/forget_rss_here_comes_flickrs_lol_feed/ < 1224247563 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fi:korkea means "has a large vertical extent", while fi:korkealla means "located at a high altitude". < 1224247564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lol feed? < 1224247572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's just a lolcode bastardization. < 1224247579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why can't flickr have done an underload feed? < 1224247580 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that even possible? < 1224247585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://api.flickr.com/services/feeds/photos_public.gne?id=68497070@N00&lang=en-us&format=lol The offender. < 1224247597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's basically just "made up shit" < 1224247600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it looks like lolcode < 1224247604 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IM IN UR BUCKETS MAKING UP FORMATS <<< i found this pretty funny :o < 1224247609 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so did I, actually < 1224247613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's the only funny line in the thing < 1224247614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION agrees
< 1224247617 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fi:-lla suffix is something like the 'on' preposition in English. < 1224247635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ok you are worse with suffixes than Swedish then... < 1224247690 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that the 'on' preposition in English has a whole lotta uses. Well, I guess our suffix has some others, too. < 1224247700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the commentors are right, though, that is shorter and clearer than XML, even when compressed < 1224247707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well yeah < 1224247718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it's worse in Latin, "in" and "on" are the same word there < 1224247720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well: http://nomic.info/perlnomic/log.rss < 1224247722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is pretty clear < 1224247729 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the distinction of tall and long is not an arbitrary distinction between objects in different angles, it's so you can tell what kind of size the speaker means < 1224247732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, prepositions never seem to have a 1:1 mapping between languages, for any preposition... < 1224247787 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, OK, it still has lots of unnecessary stuff in though < 1224247790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guys. A blast from the past: http://web.archive.org/web/20040130154403/http://mozilla.org/. Who remembers going there?! < 1224247803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They told you to nab mozilla 1.6 with that flashy silver icon. < 1224247803 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone should invent a YAML version of RSS < 1224247812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Mozilla Firebird" was a technology preview. < 1224247812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: been done < 1224247816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1224247818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by why the lucky stiff, it's !okay/news < 1224247820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but...nobody uses it < 1224247823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now someone should make it widely used < 1224247824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because nothing supports it < 1224247832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the _only_ implementor is hobix for obvious reasons < 1224247849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, share in my wow at that old mozilla homepage < 1224247871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why wow? < 1224247880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because it's a blast from the past, so shush < 1224247893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never understood nostalgia < 1224247898 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that reddit entry about the Google quine is quite interesting < 1224247905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, google quine? < 1224247911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link? < 1224247913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's because you're an inhuman, lifeless machine. :| < 1224247913 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google a number and return that many results < 1224247921 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/77o4g/proggit_chalenge_find_a_number_n_which_when/ is the discussion < 1224247927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently 545000 works for some people < 1224247934 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it returned 548000 when I tried < 1224247940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Results 1 - 10 of about 548,000 for 545000. (0.05 seconds) < 1224247942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1224247944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1224247966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its obvious why < 1224247968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google indexes reddit really rapidly. < 1224247971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I have discovered a truly marvelous number with this property but I can't post it here, because then Google would index my comment and it wouldn't be valid any longer." < 1224247972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehe < 1224247977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all the sites that nab stuff from reddit < 1224248043 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Anything natural-language-related is just exceptions on top of other exceptions. For example our adessive case (the "-lla" suffix) has the basic meaning "on top of something" or "around something", but it's also used to indicate possession; "the cat has ears" is "kissalla on korvat", which literally translated would be "there are ears on top of the cat". < 1224248080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that sounds hilarious in Swedish < 1224248094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering "korv" means "sausage" < 1224248105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that "on" means anything < 1224248110 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Falukorv, right. < 1224248120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well that is one variant < 1224248130 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the famous one. :p < 1224248138 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm, falukorv < 1224248150 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lunch -> < 1224248172 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"DRAFT DRAFT DRAFT DRAFT" < 1224248210 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We've got something called "lauantaimakkara", literally "Saturday sausage"; I've never been quite clear what's very Saturday-like about it. It's pretty tasteless. < 1224248214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DRAFT!!!!!!!!!!!DRAFT!!!!!!!!!!!DRAFT!!!!!!!!!!!DRAFT!!!!!!!!!!!DRAFT!!!!!!!!!!!DRAFT!!!!!!!!!!!DRAFT!!!!!!!!!!!DRAFT!!!!!!!!!!!DRAFT!!!!!!!!!!!DRAFT!!!!!!!!!!!DRAFT!!!!!!!!!!!DRAFT!!!!!!!!!!!DRAFT < 1224248309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr < 1224248326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please please don't let this become sort of channel in-joke < 1224248330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is just too silly for that < 1224248353 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you've pretty much guaranteed it will now < 1224248364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DD!!RR!!AA!!FF!!TT!!!!!!!!!!DD!!RR!!AA!!FF!!TT!!!!!!!!!!DD!!RR!!AA!!FF!!TT!!!!!!!!!!DD!!RR!!AA!!FF!!TT!!!!!!!!!!DD!!RR!!AA!!FF!!TT!!!!!!!!!!DD!!RR!!AA!!FF!!TT!!!!!!!!!!DD!!RR!!AA!!FF!!TT!!!!!!!!!!DD!!RR!!AA!!FF!!TT!!!!!!!!!!DD!!RR!!AA!!FF!!TT < 1224248364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, damn < 1224248371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that made no sense < 1224248382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echochohoo !!!DRAFT!!! < 1224248386 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show < 1224248387 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo reverb rev bf rot13 hi rev2 fib wc ul ctcp < 1224248387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DRAFT DRAFT DRAFT DRAFT DRAFT < 1224248391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, it was deleted < 1224248397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echochohoo? < 1224248399 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think some of 'em were lost when someone crashed fungot this morning. < 1224248399 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hitler killed a lot of < 1224248399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did that one do < 1224248419 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: said something, then said it again minus the first char, then again minus the first two chars, and so on < 1224248419 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given the input 12345, it outputted "123452345345455". < 1224248435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway I need to figure out the TODO marked bits, a good name for mutexes (latch is top one currently) < 1224248453 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :call them "fortunes" < 1224248462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that it's anything appropriate, but it sounds nice and mysterious < 1224248473 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it would've outputted: !!!DRAFT!!!!!DRAFT!!!!DRAFT!!!DRAFT!!!RAFT!!!AFT!!!FT!!!T!!!!!!!!! < 1224248476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would prefer that it make some kind of sense < 1224248486 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: wrong channel < 1224248498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no more like a extended metaphor < 1224248517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want memes to make sense, get out of #esoteric < 1224248517 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :latches? just call them unsafe flip-flops < 1224248525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, heh < 1224248538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, the logic was: mutexes -> locks -> latches < 1224248550 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, and i continued one level more < 1224248558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a latch would have the operations latch/unlatch/inspect < 1224248559 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could use I and O (as in flIp and flOp) as the operations; no-one would ever remember which one was which. < 1224248562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inspect is like try-lock < 1224248586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh, but what about the try-lock one? < 1224248591 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: U, as in flUb. < 1224248597 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flip, flop, flub. < 1224248600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm interesting < 1224248640 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe a bit silly. I'm trying to think of something completely surprising but with real-life mutual-exclusion semantics. Not having too much luck yet. < 1224248649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, same < 1224248794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION considers "a bouncer"
< 1224248806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1224248808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm bored < 1224248812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deploy, fire, ask to be allowed to enter? < 1224248815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err no < 1224248815 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... the concept of bouncers seems to be an antipattern, actually < 1224248819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too far fetched < 1224248828 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably IRC channels have join and quit messages for a reason < 1224248838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well yeah? < 1224248840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't thiink he's talking about an irc bouncer < 1224248842 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and bouncers exist to stop them ending up in the channel < 1224248843 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1224248845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and indeed not < 1224248871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, as one outside a restaurant(sp?) < 1224248881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think that is the English word for them? < 1224248881 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like this: "Critical sections in the code can be done by copyRighting a particular number; when you have done that, no other thread may copyRight the same number, until you explicitly copyLeft the number first." < 1224248892 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1224248896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that may work heh < 1224248910 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more often pubs and nightclubs than restaurants, though < 1224248919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and what about try-lock operation? < 1224248928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well yeah < 1224248995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, "send a letter asking for permission to use"? < 1224248997 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thinking. "You can also simply File for copyright with the F instruction; unlike the copyRight instruction, filing for copyright won't block your thread, but you only get the copyRight for the desired number if it was free." < 1224249011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224249014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could work too < 1224249016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better < 1224249030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, :) < 1224249052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except what are the implications for FOSS in this? < 1224249058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1224249095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and using the number in other contexts is obviously fair use. < 1224249131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(such as in unrelated calculations) < 1224249143 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the concept of copyRight in your language would be pretty limited; the only thing it would prevent is the copyRighting of the same number by someone else. < 1224249157 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not copyright, that's trademarks < 1224249157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes.. hm < 1224249160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224249184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm < 1224249193 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not exactly trademarks either, since there are at least some things you can't do with someone else's trademarked logo or thing. < 1224249221 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main thing you can't do with someone else's trademark is use it in a context unrelated to them < 1224249235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can talk about Microsoft Windows without problems, referring to the operating system < 1224249240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sco - microsoft) / novell * apple < 1224249241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1224249245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I tried to make my own OS called Microsoft Windows, though, I'd be in trouble < 1224249250 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 0, obviously < 1224249256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's what sco-microsoft evaluates to < 1224249264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah right < 1224249269 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you implying sco = microsoft? < 1224249282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm implying that SCO would probably be nothing without Microsoft < 1224249284 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least nowadays < 1224249296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm interpreting the - as set subtraction, rather than numerical subtraction < 1224249300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not anticommutative < 1224249308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yet you could sell windows? < 1224249312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :made of glass < 1224249320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it depends on the scope of the trademark < 1224249327 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a huge court case going on about this at the moment < 1224249335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :between Apple the record company and Apple the computer company < 1224249343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224249352 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the record company claim the computer company started to breach their trademark when they released the iPod < 1224249367 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being music-related, you see < 1224249381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, then they did it when you included speakers in the computers too < 1224249387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :logically < 1224249402 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes trademark law is a mess < 1224249409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I know that court case is still ongoing < 1224249422 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's been quite a lot of Apple Corps vs. Apple Computer trademark disputes. < 1224249435 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Corps_v._Apple_Computer < 1224249438 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia "Apple Corps v. Apple Computer" lists six. < 1224249462 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, six sections, anyway. < 1224249464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... it seems they settled eventually < 1224249472 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in the 2007 one, which is the one I was thinking about) < 1224249482 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea who would have won if they hadn't < 1224249535 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, you'll have to worry about a language where you can trademark small integers... well, except that in this language the scope of the trademarks would prevent people (well, threads) _only_ from trademarking the same numbers, not from using them any way they wish. < 1224249540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid thing to name it the same < 1224249563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yep so I'll not use that terminology < 1224249613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe "booking out", as in a library? < 1224249624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm? < 1224249638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can book out things, and you give them back later < 1224249645 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't book something out if someone else has booked it out < 1224249656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally, though, when you book something out you say how long you're going to need it for < 1224249661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"booked out" would mean? < 1224249669 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possession of a physical object is one thing that's naturally mutually exclusive, yes. < 1224249670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was "lend/return" < 1224249671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you sign a piece of paper to say that you have it < 1224249675 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that works too < 1224249704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also you can normally be put on a queue for the book, which kind of doesn't work here since the queue order is non-deterministic < 1224249713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least that is how erlang currently implements waiting for locks < 1224249726 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a bit strange library, that's all. :p < 1224249733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1224249745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and the try lock would be checking if a book is in? < 1224249754 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh yes, a reservation < 1224249768 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or one of those library enquiry computer things < 1224249814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, try lock wouldn't be like reservation really? Since it would reflect instead of block if the book/lock was lended/held < 1224249827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION considers
< 1224249836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still it may kind of work I guess < 1224249841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224249851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would "lended" be correct? < 1224249860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aspell doesn't think so < 1224249876 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loaned. < 1224249891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the operations are: loan/return/??? < 1224249898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or? < 1224249911 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loan, return, check status < 1224249931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, C and S are in use and hard to change. hm < 1224249942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K? T? < 1224249946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both seem to fit well there < 1224249951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1224249951 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wiktionary says that "loan" as a verb is ungrammatical outside the US: "to loan: (US) To lend. This usage is confined to the US (or perhaps parts thereof) and elsewhere is ungrammatical (loan being the noun, and lend the verb)." < 1224249957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they work fine < 1224249983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so T reflects if the book is loaned? < 1224249991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like wrong grammar to me < 1224249995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/wrong/bad/ < 1224250000 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the past tense for "to lend" is "lent", not "lended", apparently. < 1224250014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it is < 1224250017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :English is weird < 1224250032 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "on loan" is the phrase you're looking for < 1224250036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that that makes any sense either < 1224250045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1224250053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and the opposite of that? < 1224250064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in is in library < 1224250065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the libraries I use call it "available" < 1224250070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1224250109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the number is obviously the extended ISBN (any number, not just well formed isbn) < 1224250133 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. "I called my library and tried to borrow the number 4, but unfortunately that number was already on loan." < 1224250168 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually isn't "borrow" the correct verb for the receiving end? < 1224250174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1224250179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... yes, it is < 1224250185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so borrow/return/try to borrow? < 1224250191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the library loans < 1224250194 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The library is lending the book to you; you are borrowing the book from the library. < 1224250199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas the person borrows < 1224250208 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1224250210 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finnish just uses the same word "lainata" for both. < 1224250212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and do you return a book? < 1224250219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that the wrong word < 1224250244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you return it < 1224250259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that or pay lots of fines < 1224250320 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you say you lost the book, and apologize a lot, you might just need to pay the price of the book; that's one way people use to "buy" out-of-print books. < 1224250331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"don't try to acquire a mutex you already hold" < 1224250335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would end up as < 1224250346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"don't try to borrow a book you already ????" < 1224250357 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Don't try to borrow a book you already have. This would confuse the librarian." < 1224250363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1224250377 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "possibly confuse", since it's not clear what happens. < 1224250384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1224250389 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, I so want to implement mutexes using ar < 1224250394 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't know if it's thread-safe < 1224250407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using ar? < 1224250410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh why? < 1224250430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :library analogy < 1224250432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no better reason than that < 1224250460 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a funny library, though; you can't make a reservation (you can just wait for someone to return the book, but then it's pure luck who gets it, the one who was waiting first has no special privilege) and there's no time limit for loans. < 1224250539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a time limit might actually be a useful protection against dropped mutexes < 1224250541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed < 1224250560 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: And then you'd need to pay with some clock cycles if you return your book all dirty. < 1224250573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, I couldn't implement that < 1224250577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1224250590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: nah, the OS would just force you to be a bit nicer < 1224250597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AUGH < 1224250628 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. "We're not scheduling you as often as we used to, since you got burger sauce all over number 4 when you last borrowed it." < 1224250761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh another thing, the library have every possible book < 1224250770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hilbert's library or something < 1224251029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, fizzie ^ < 1224251039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I saw that < 1224251055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very much so considering efunge have bignum cells < 1224251282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, fizzie: http://rafb.net/p/zTufIM86.html < 1224251307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also please point out stuff that are language mistakes < 1224251308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and such < 1224251383 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :B description says "every use of L". < 1224251392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1224251417 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll look more closely later (or maybe you have another draft at that point already), must go buy food and stuff. < 1224251453 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you should so define the interaction with TRDS < 1224251458 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leaving it undefined is a cop-out < 1224251462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I have to go to lectures now < 1224251466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, blergh < 1224251468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see you all in about 2 hours 20 mins or so < 1224251472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1224251477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blergh about TRDS < 1224251490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well I know < 1224251516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Using TRDS and ATHR in combination shall cause demons to fly out of the Funge programmer's nose < 1224251582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I think WIND wouldn't have issues < 1224251586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no need to list it < 1224251622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Using TRDS and ATHR in combination shall cause implementation-defined demons to fly out of the Funge programmer's nose." < 1224251623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1224251691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that allows for someone to actually do something sensible if they want (define the demons to be none, and work on other bits) < 1224251715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: TRDS and ATHR together sounds awesome < 1224251719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you be so hostile >:( < 1224251743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, since TRDS is too badly speced to be sure how it would work in combination < 1224251760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and because I don't want a headache < 1224251761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it would be amazing < 1224251776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, feel free to work out a sensible way for how they interact then, I may even use it < 1224251793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: will you implement it < 1224251798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, TRDS? No < 1224251806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ATHR? Yes in efunge, not in cfunge < 1224251811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS TRDS < 1224251819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the people have spoken < 1224251821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they want TRDS < 1224251868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so you want to maintain it as a patch set against cfunge or efugne? < 1224251873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :efunge* < 1224251881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the people want you to implement trds < 1224251911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may want it, it won't happen < 1224251931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but since both are open source, feel free to do it yourself < 1224251954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would imply forking < 1224251966 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want you to implement trds too < 1224251972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see < 1224251974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's two people < 1224251977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :200% of your user base < 1224251991 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1224251994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, neither of you use cfunge or efunge < 1224252002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, but only 1 person uses cfunge < 1224252008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore two people are 200% of your userbase < 1224252012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also 0 people use efunge < 1224252031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, actually ais523 use it, I use it, and I know someone else who do so. + fizzie use it sometimes < 1224252047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and yes, efunge haven't had a release yet < 1224252056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what did you expect < 1224252061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hasn't. < 1224252068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hasn't* indeed < 1224252089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it still lacks many features, such as i and o < 1224252128 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i might use cfunge if i used befunge < 1224252143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb ais523 < 1224252147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I still won't implement TRDS :P < 1224252169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, do you actually know how messy TRDS is? < 1224252171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.rcfunge98.com/rcfunge2_manual.html#TRDS < 1224252177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trds is amazing < 1224252179 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i've read that < 1224252200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I'm in my lecture now < 1224252200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's making no sense < 1224252200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so although I can't really concentrate on the conversation here < 1224252200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes more sense than trying to understand the lecture < 1224252213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it about < 1224252225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to the syllabus it's about management < 1224252229 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1224252229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: < 1224252230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TRDS < 1224252231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :---- < 1224252231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using TRDS and ATHR in combination shall cause implementation-defined demons to < 1224252231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fly out of the Funge programmer's nose. < 1224252231 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds awful < 1224252239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION agrees with oklopol
< 1224252253 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually a lecturer spending several hours talking about "customers" < 1224252260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ouch < 1224252263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone just complained that that was marketing < 1224252268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the lecturer asked what marketing was < 1224252273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1224252276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously? < 1224252277 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is going to be a long 11 weeks... < 1224252280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I think so < 1224252281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"what's marketing?" < 1224252283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did he say that? < 1224252287 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, he did < 1224252292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cannot believe that < 1224252296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i knew what marketing meant when i was 5. < 1224252299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I hope he forgot ~ or something... < 1224252300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure if it was rhetorical or not < 1224252318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i was thinking "rhetorical" < 1224252323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either way thats a shitty rhetorical question < 1224252334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway my point was... if you want sensible TRDS/ATHR interaction then you got to define it, since I can't figure that out. < 1224252351 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"How would you create Value Add thorugh a Internal Customer audit on yourself ?" < 1224252363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe i read that as "Intercal" < 1224252367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sounds like scientology < 1224252368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1224252369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(literal from the notes I've just been given, except the typo in through is mine, the other typos were the lecturer's though) < 1224252384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask him how his thetans are doing < 1224252399 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, this one's even more Scientologic: < 1224252401 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :managers abuse language :( < 1224252410 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :death to them all < 1224252431 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No Cynicism. Creativity, dreams, imagination Fantatical attention to consistency and detail Preservation and control of the xxxxx magic." < 1224252437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1224252440 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, and I didn't typo in that, the typos are the lecturer's again < 1224252448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the xxxxx makes no sense in that context < 1224252452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am serious, that looks exactly like one of those sekrit scientology journal things i pirated < 1224252458 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD < 1224252468 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A friend-of-a-friend here got a scientology anti-psychiatry pamphlet. I didn't know they were doing that sort of thing in Finland. < 1224252469 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what university were you at again < 1224252478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Birmingham University < 1224252484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really, all management courses are like this < 1224252491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: they do that thing -everywhere- < 1224252500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, horrible < 1224252500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the IEEE insists that engineering courses are 1/12 management courses, I have no idea why < 1224252508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck the IEEE. < 1224252509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1224252512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid closed standard bodies < 1224252522 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the management lecturer last year was actually quite good though, he tought me accounting and company law < 1224252526 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so more business than management < 1224252534 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I get regular religious nonsense reasonably often, but never scientology stuff. It's strange. < 1224252585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I just realised that I have enough accumulated pass marks that I can fail this module and still get a first, in theory < 1224252595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I really want to have to do that, but it's nice to have a safety valve < 1224252684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, still, if you think TRDS + ATHR should be well defined you better write that section. < 1224252748 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's athr < 1224252758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, async threads for Funge < 1224252806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/bQS3gx65.html < 1224252808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :current revision < 1224252811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ais523 ^ < 1224253157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb ais523 < 1224253173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, http://rafb.net/p/bQS3gx65.html < 1224253192 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems this lecture theatre has a dodgy router < 1224253275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... the lecturer's explained that sentence with the xxxxx in < 1224253283 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently we were supposed to guess that xxxxx=Disney < 1224253290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... the sentence still doesn't make much sense though < 1224253360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking for ar... no < 1224253360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking for i686-pc-linux-gnu-ar... no < 1224253360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking for ar... ar < 1224253364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks a bit odd < 1224253374 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes, it does < 1224253380 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did it come up with the right answer, though? < 1224253381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it was from gcc configure < 1224253391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that would explain it < 1224253394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? < 1224253398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking for ld... no < 1224253398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking for i686-pc-linux-gnu-ld... no < 1224253398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking for ld... ld < 1224253400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc configure does the same sort of stupid tricks as ick configure < 1224253400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :said that below < 1224253405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why I thought it was the same thing to start with < 1224253409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I'm building an llvm gcc < 1224253411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except gcc configure is mostly hand-coded < 1224253412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a* < 1224253429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas ick's uses macros and some stupid semi-recursion stuff < 1224253447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it said: < 1224253449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking for i686-pc-linux-gnu-ld... no < 1224253449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :checking for ld... ld < 1224253452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just 20 lines above < 1224253454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1224253463 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what are your build, host and target for that build? < 1224253477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster@phoenix ~/llvm/gcc-build $ ../llvm-gcc/configure --prefix=/home/anmaster/local/llvm --program-prefix=llvm- --enable-llvm=/home/anmaster/local/llvm --with-arch=pentium3 --with-tune=pentium3 --disable-libgcj --enable-libmudflap --enable-nls --enable-__cxa_atexit --disable-multilib --enable-clocale=gnu --enable-languages=c,c++ < 1224253479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc has to check all 3 of them < 1224253492 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ick cares about build and host, but target you do using CC at runtime < 1224253513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well see the command line < 1224253518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess native build < 1224253522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with llvm stuff < 1224253546 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately the build/host/target are probably hardcoded there < 1224253551 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least one of them is and probably 2 < 1224253580 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: typo in F: singal should be signal < 1224253586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although singal is a nice word too < 1224253592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite not meaning anything < 1224253597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh aspell accepted it < 1224253610 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... maybe it means something I don't know, then < 1224253624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Singal (Hangeul: ì‹ ê°ˆ) is an area of Yongin, in Gyeonggi Province, South Korea. It is near two major expressways and a large reservoir by the ..." < 1224253631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1224253632 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first comma in B should probably be a semicolon < 1224253632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :continual, everlasting, continuous < 1224253632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :en.wiktionary.org/wiki/singal < 1224253638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1224253655 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Old English", though. < 1224253658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a semicolon, right < 1224253671 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WordNet doesn't know singal, but it's not that comprehensive anyway. < 1224253691 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I didn't know it and I'm a native speaker < 1224253713 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're not a native speaker of Old English, obviously. < 1224253723 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, obviously < 1224253751 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, R looks self-contradictory < 1224253755 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you define an error condition < 1224253759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then state "never reflects" < 1224253817 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in S, the first instance of "threads" should be "thread", and "it's" should be "its" < 1224253818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, *looks* < 1224253833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ok you are right about R < 1224253842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and about S < 1224253890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Reflects on returning a book you don't have. Otherwise never reflects." < 1224253893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about that? < 1224253899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, bbiab food < 1224253901 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, looks good < 1224254000 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note that pthread_mutex_unlock won't error out on unlocking someone else's mutex unless you use an error-checking (instead of a fast/recursive mutex) mutex. Of course you can define it, and it's arguably better that way. < 1224254033 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I suppose using fast mutexes is more C-like < 1224254048 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't worry about error conditions, just make sure the prorgammer never lets errors happen < 1224254072 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slows down the programmer but speeds up the program, unless you have a /very/ good optimiser < 1224254119 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's just that B is defined in the "easy to implement even without error-checking mutexes" way, so for consistency's sake... < 1224254150 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think people write performance-critical Funge-98 code that much, though. < 1224254190 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "implementation defined and does not need to be the same on every run, or even for every use of B during a run" can be abbreviated to "unspecified" if you're using C-standard terminology < 1224254225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the original is possibly clearer < 1224254297 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the notes section, "The library have all books" should be "The library has all books" < 1224254501 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh argh argh < 1224254510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lecturer is trying to teach us about S.M.A.R.T. < 1224254529 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is one of the things that everyone most hated about targets and such in my secondary school < 1224254534 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that the whole system made any sense < 1224254546 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: did they teach you that too, or did you escape from it? < 1224254552 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-39-168.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224254562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hm what where < 1224254564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't been paying attention < 1224254581 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: did they try to teach you about SMART targets in secondary school? < 1224254591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they did i do not recall < 1224254657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : well, I suppose using fast mutexes is more C-like <-- ? < 1224254664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224254683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it should be undefined instead? < 1224254745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, S.M.A.R.T.? As in harddisks? < 1224254934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Ping reply from ais523: 0.70 second(s) < 1224254934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1224254938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess he is just busy then < 1224254941 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no < 1224254945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a management acronym < 1224254949 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you're lucky < 1224254964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: summary? < 1224254976 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specific, Measurable, Achievable, Realistic, Time-related < 1224254998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1224254999 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the managementese for what are good properties for targets to have < 1224255010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time-related? < 1224255018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it leads to lots of arguments, such as what is the difference between achieveable and realistic anyway < 1224255033 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what it means in practice is that the targets you set have to have time limits < 1224255041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that isn't what time-related actually means < 1224255048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, "with deadline"? < 1224255057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is wrong with that < 1224255058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you know what i hate? I hate internet-friends who take programming courses and ask me things. "can you decompile xml files" / "what" / "is it possible." "to decompile." "compiled xml files." < 1224255059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's the in-practice meaning, yes < 1224255082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, compiled xml files make no sense... < 1224255093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: congratulations, you got what i was saying < 1224255101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think he means binary xml file thingies < 1224255115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, that reminds me of another weirdness about VHDL < 1224255124 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you've finally translated it into an idiomatic form, and compiled it < 1224255134 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's usual to decompile the output and interpret it to check that it still works < 1224255141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :binary xml files? You mean like encoded as ascii code points in stored in a binary file? < 1224255145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like... text files? < 1224255162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1224255164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's such a thing < 1224255169 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.xml.gz < 1224255176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be the obvious solution < 1224255177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err that is just gunzip < 1224255184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to uncompress < 1224255192 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I wonder if there is an official binary serialisation of XML? < 1224255201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i think so < 1224255205 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that wouldn't surprise me, even though it ought ot < 1224255206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also for that VHDL issue it sounds like the compilers are horribly buggy < 1224255206 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*to < 1224255216 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, the issue is that RL is horribly buggy < 1224255232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you've compiled into hardware, it works out how long all the wires are and so on < 1224255245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for "binary serialisation of XML", that makes no sense.. < 1224255246 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the decompiled version allows for the behaviour of the wires and such < 1224255267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah ok < 1224255268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for instance if two things happen at the same time in your source, in practice they'll normally happen at slightly different times in RL < 1224255273 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the decompiled version will get that right < 1224255334 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... your ATHR needs a "security considerations" section < 1224255338 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because RFCs always have those < 1224255374 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I just had an idea < 1224255382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I might know how to get Feather to work... < 1224255407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm, I considered "ATHR and the impacts on modern society" section with the text "Not a lot." or something like that... < 1224255428 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's impossible to compare functions, it is possible to see if one function contains a copy of another < 1224255440 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in a lang like Unlambda, the only way to find out what a function does is to run it < 1224255456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and functions are generally modified by putting wrappers around them, that's the only thing you can do really < 1224255485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also what would i put in security considerations? "Doesn't allow any additional external IO"? < 1224255497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... possibility for fork-bombs, maybe < 1224255507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I think ATHR would be safe according to cfunge's sandbox mode requirements < 1224255517 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you fork-bomb with it? < 1224255523 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what does it help if you know a function contains another? < 1224255526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well thread bomb I guess... < 1224255535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: the problem is to tell if two things are effectively the same < 1224255541 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224255552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also I saw a new horrible fingerprint in rc/funge, "FORK" < 1224255553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question is "what in the new universe corresponds to X in the old universe" after a retroactive modification < 1224255555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.rcfunge98.com/rcfunge2_manual.html#FORK < 1224255572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is impossible to say what that actually does < 1224255582 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the answer is "whatever has the same call tree of absolute function addresses, possibly with extra elements inserted" < 1224255605 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sorry, i confused feather with your other unimplementable language < 1224255611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, Proud? < 1224255612 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the name of which i forgot again < 1224255613 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224255616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, feather is implementable isn't it? < 1224255620 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Feather is at least in theory implementable, I think < 1224255626 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just I haven't figured out how yet < 1224255631 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to implement it to prove it's possible < 1224255634 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then so I can program in it < 1224255658 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proud is implementable too, just not well, it's a fuzzy issue < 1224255664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, should I attribute you with your nick or real name? < 1224255667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in thanks section < 1224255682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't mind, "Alex Smith" would probably fit in best there given the other names < 1224255715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what about the wikipedia stalker-murderers < 1224255767 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, my nick isn't on there, is it? < 1224255769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway if implemented in erlang you effectively have no issue with fork bombs, erlang threads are very green. I think a newly created thread uses something like around 200-300 machine words of memory < 1224255778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including the default stack < 1224255816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that just means that the fork bomb can become really big before you notice it < 1224255849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well anyone sane would have proper ulimits set up < 1224255875 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can you elaborate on why it helps that we can see whether a function contains another? < 1224256028 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | heh < 1224256108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well, basically, suppose you retroactively modify the program < 1224256112 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1224256114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw how would ick interact with ATHR ;) < 1224256116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the program will then rerun up to the point where you changed it < 1224256121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I plan to implement it in cfunge < 1224256130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if there was more than one thread at the end of any command, it would go crazy < 1224256142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah yes right < 1224256156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway that leaves the TRDS issue. < 1224256161 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: anyway, you need to avoid timeloops < 1224256164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I delegate to you ais523 < 1224256171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... /me imagines ick + TRDS < 1224256180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, TRDS + ATHR I meant < 1224256199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, ick + TRDS aren't fundamentally incompatible, but I can't figure out what the result would be < 1224256223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and for ATHR and TRDS? < 1224256226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: so, once you reach the command that did the retroactive modification, it shouldn't retroactively modify the second time round < 1224256236 0 :slereah!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-39-168.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224256248 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I was joking, really, although I suspect the interaction would be the same as t + TRDS (i.e. only Deewiant understands it) < 1224256272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I suspect it would be even messier < 1224256277 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: the problem is: determine when you reach that command, given that the program has changed in the meantime < 1224256300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I've come to the answer by considering what the likely modifications are < 1224256315 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll define a set of "sane" retroactive modifications that the standard library can cope with < 1224256341 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :insane retroactive modifications are allowed to, but if you do them it's your responsibility to make sure the program doesn't timeloop or do other crazy pimetaradoxical things < 1224256351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, make each command have an GUID that never changes during a run? < 1224256351 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*too < 1224256362 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought of that too, but it doesn't help < 1224256371 0 :slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1224256373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because how do you tell it's the same command if the source changes, or the syntax of the lang changes < 1224256377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lambdas break it really badly < 1224256386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1224256433 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is to come up with something GUID-like that can cope with changes in the nature of the language < 1224256449 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and looking for call stacks with elements inserted seems to be the solution < 1224256457 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, the same problem comes up in handling I/O < 1224256485 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, the way I think Feather will do it is that input and output are tagged with their /purpose/ < 1224256490 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the programmer < 1224256494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and purposes are meant to be stable < 1224256496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, could you make feather become befunge? < 1224256502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with these modifications < 1224256503 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I think so < 1224256512 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bootstrapping might be hard though < 1224256521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as at some point the program would need to be a Feather/Befunge polyglot < 1224256525 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll read, was watching a finnish racist boast about getting rid of foreigners on youtube < 1224256530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, care to give a short example program to show what the syntax looks like? < 1224256536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for original feather < 1224256543 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION likes watching nutjobs preach
< 1224256555 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, modulo the fact that I haven't come up with any examples yet, and the syntax keeps changing every now and then as I work out what the language features < 1224256569 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but after you've imported the standard library, it would be something like this: < 1224256641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^stdlib outputwrapper #sayhello [^stdlib output] [^stdlib stdout] "Hello, world!" < 1224256651 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not a very typical example though < 1224256655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1224256669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so how would you change the syntax? What does that bit look like? < 1224256673 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the # isn't strictly necessary, as curried functions don't have a sayhello message < 1224256713 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... as a trivial example, I'll consider a modification to the language which makes a % at the start of the program comment out the entire program < 1224256747 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this could take a while to write, wait a while... < 1224256787 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at some point, i considered a string from a marker to the end of the program for oklotalk < 1224256797 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you wouldn't need to worry at all about the contents of the string < 1224256816 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it'd be used by making an interpreter in the beginning of the program, then running the string < 1224256819 0 :Jiminy_Cricket!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :No route to host < 1224256827 0 :omniscient_idiot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1224256887 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklotalk has lots of parsing features (planned that is), so it would be ideal for that sorta thing < 1224256975 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^parser parse be [[old|[str|str head = '%' if [x|] old]] [^parser parse]] < 1224256995 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that be could be become to make the change apply from now on, rather than retroactively < 1224257025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1224257029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun < 1224257041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, most of the identifiers will probably end up different < 1224257045 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and may end up in different places too < 1224257055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how does that match work < 1224257056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1224257071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's assuming that auto-unboxing and such have already been implemented, they'll be in the standard library though < 1224257084 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, parse takes a string as input and returns a function as output < 1224257094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1224257107 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the new parser is defined in terms of the old one < 1224257111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1224257127 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it compares [str head] (the square brackets are like parens) with '%' < 1224257131 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by telling it to compare itself with '%' < 1224257140 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that returns a boolean object < 1224257157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1224257157 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its if method returns its first arg if it's true or its second arg if it's false < 1224257164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, could feather become any other language? < 1224257168 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of those is a NOP whatever its argument < 1224257171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the other is the old parser < 1224257177 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think so < 1224257185 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would need to get input from somewhere, though < 1224257189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, the actual program to run < 1224257200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so what if you made it C, how would it access mmap() and such? < 1224257201 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you wrote the program as a Feather/Befunge polyglot from the start, which could be fun < 1224257212 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you'd have to implement them in Feather < 1224257222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the file system too? < 1224257231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I/O and standard library and such couldn't be in part of the becomed language unless they were in Feather's stdlib to start with < 1224257234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :file I/O probably would be though < 1224257240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224257289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway what does the ^ mean? < 1224257292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in your examples < 1224257298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it refers to "this object" < 1224257301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like this in C++ < 1224257312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are certain properties like stdlib that every object has < 1224257317 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahahaha, you've inversed F# ;) < 1224257319 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can access them from anywhere < 1224257322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if you could have that on the first line as first char, the befunge/feather polygot would be easy < 1224257329 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1224257337 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more to the point, it's trivial to get a [ on first line as first char < 1224257345 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that also would make Befunge/Feather an easy polyglot < 1224257349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yep < 1224257358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I think ^ is the right character < 1224257366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would it handle the befunge program overwriting parts of the feather code? < 1224257368 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what I actually wanted is whatever Smalltalk uses in that sort of context < 1224257381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it wouldn't care, at the time the Befunge program ran the Feather code would no longer exist < 1224257384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224257388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except as the Befunge interp < 1224257408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if Feather modified itself into Befunge itself, you couldn't modify it back as Befunge has no command to retroactively change itself into Feather < 1224257422 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you could modify it into a Befunge-like lang that could change back, maybe have it in a fingerprint... < 1224257438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it could have that as a fingerprint or the same way that ick uses the middot < 1224257442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, modifying Feather into Befunge definitely qualifies as an insane change < 1224257460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and yeah. What about changing it into scheme? < 1224257462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you want stdlib to work after that, you're on your own < 1224257481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :likewise for most langs < 1224257495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rule for a sane Feather parser change is that in addition to the other requirements to be sane, it has to be backwards-compatible < 1224257512 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. all legal programs under the old parser do the same thing, or the same thing and additional things, under the new parser < 1224257520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so what about become instead of be? < 1224257521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, modifying the lang to make it run under a debugger is sane < 1224257525 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: become is always sane < 1224257527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't you say that worked around the issue < 1224257540 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :become on the parser would have no effect until you tried to parse something, though < 1224257550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as at that point you've already parsed your original program < 1224257564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas be will modify the parser before it parsed your original program, that's what makes it a lot less sane < 1224257746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224257761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about one affecting every line of come from after this line? < 1224257777 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"come from" is a bit hard to define in a functional lang < 1224257810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, code* < 1224257812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not come* < 1224257830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typoed < 1224257891 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the entire program is parsed first then run < 1224257915 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it could be done < 1224257925 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd use be, but cause the parser to act the same way for earlier code < 1224257926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that could he the sane way to protect syslib? < 1224257930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc you have to define "earlier" somehow < 1224257934 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, that would be sane < 1224257955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define "earlier" as before some special marker < 1224257969 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"before"? < 1224257973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the code is only linear in source form < 1224257978 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once it's a function, before has less of a meaning < 1224257983 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure it would be possible, though < 1224258004 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :annotate all functions with the position in the source code they were generated from, for instance < 1224258010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : the code is only linear in source form < 1224258015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what about making it into cat? < 1224258096 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, cat would be trivial < 1224258114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... you could do a Feather quine by causing the parser to output its input rather than parsing it, retroactively < 1224258279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, then the source needs to be in linear form doesn't it? < 1224258287 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1224258290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what the source code is < 1224258294 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's like any other compiled lang < 1224258298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have the source, and the executable < 1224258310 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Feather, though, the executable can modify the source and it changes accordingly, whilst still running < 1224258313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hotpatching ftw! < 1224258341 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... lazy parsing might be useful in Feather, not necessary, but nice < 1224258348 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'll make stdlib retroactively add it < 1224258378 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-39-168.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224258426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you could add it from within feather anyway ;P < 1224258432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224258441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is simply a discussion about what would be useful in the stdlib < 1224258452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, what changes the stdlib makes at the start of any program < 1224258467 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nature of any Feather interp is that it has to be written entirely in Feather < 1224258476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nature of RL is that they have to be written in something else to start it off < 1224258498 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you start off with two versions of the same interp, one in Feather, one in some other lang, which both do exactly the same thing < 1224258542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems like a better bet than hoping a Feather interp will spontaneously come into existence, great as that would be < 1224258555 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once Feather is running, it's under the impression that there are an infinite number of layers of Feather interps under it < 1224258569 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if you ever go down far enough that you reach the bottom, you can retroactively add more underneath < 1224258604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however you can, of course, expose the mechanism for doing that so it doesn't fool if you want to < 1224259022 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leaving for about 20 mins, going to a different Internet connection < 1224259106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1224260040 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-3-244.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224260807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb ais523 < 1224260854 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1224261159 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1224261318 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-112-57-215.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1224261448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm should I make TRDS interaction undefined or leave it as the demons bit? < 1224261462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider I plan to let Mike Riley see this standard < 1224261462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just leave it as demons < 1224261481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every C programmer ought to know what that means anyway < 1224261485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1224261491 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it wouldn't be the first lang with a physically unimplementable spec < 1224261509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh no, it is implementable < 1224261511 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(HOMESPRING requires the interpreter to produce a temporal paradox upon encountering the character string . .) < 1224261517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Using TRDS and ATHR in combination shall cause implementation-defined demons to < 1224261517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fly out of the Funge programmer's nose." < 1224261526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the key is "implementation-defined" demons < 1224261533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could just define it to NULL < 1224261535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1224261541 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it an implementation-defined nose too? < 1224261556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no but that wouldn't be needed, would it? < 1224261574 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is to get null pointers out of the programmer's nose < 1224261580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just define those demons to "no demons" then? < 1224261582 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might not be trivial, they might not have a nose for instance < 1224261603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for (i=0; i < 0; i++) { release_demon(&nose); } < 1224261611 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1224261621 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: why the big sad left-handed smiley? < 1224261626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, any sane compiler would optimise that away < 1224261653 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of so much demons < 1224261656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... how many languages let you declare but not define a function if you never use it? < 1224261659 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C does, and VHDL does < 1224261664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder which others? < 1224261682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well that wouldn't help here < 1224261704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no < 1224261707 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe < 1224261718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc would leave no references to release_demon in the object file < 1224261723 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you were optimising < 1224261734 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you wouldn't get the link fail that you normally get for referencing a non-existent function < 1224261747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the variable nose could be an issue < 1224261750 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :&nose would have to mean something, but I suppose nose could just be an extern variable... < 1224261753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you have to have a static variable < 1224261757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have < 1224261769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for (i=0; i < 0; i++) { release_demon_in_nose(); } < 1224261782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all since that is all about side effects anyway < 1224261880 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it can be a static variable in a non-existent function < 1224261966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1224262054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I read about solving sodoku using the debian package manager's dependency resolution stuff... But what about using make? < 1224262065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that powerful enough? < 1224262069 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is make TC, I wonder? < 1224262081 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be surprised if it was a lower computational class than dpkg < 1224262095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is dpkg tc? < 1224262114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, I don't see why it would be though < 1224262118 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas TC make makes sense < 1224262136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it is non-trivial to answer that for make. Since there are so many make dialects < 1224262155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pmake and gnu make are the most common ones probably < 1224262368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in ick, what is "arrgghh.o"? < 1224262379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it handles command line arguments for generated programs < 1224262386 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deals with +wimpmode, +instapipe, and so on < 1224262396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does arrrghh.c say: < 1224262398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * SYNOPSIS: ick_parseargs(argc,argv) < 1224262398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * FILE : ick_parseargs.c < 1224262406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case < 1224262428 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, presumably it was called parseargs.c before it was renamed to have a funky ick-name < 1224262437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that must have been ages ago, probably I could find it in the changelog if I looked < 1224262447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need < 1224262449 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the ick_ prefix is because I put ick_prefixes on everything < 1224262457 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when implementing the FFI < 1224262459 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to avoid collisions < 1224262474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the changelog? NEWS? < 1224262478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224262488 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, genuinely, a changelog < 1224262495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing about it in NEWS < 1224262501 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rename won't be there < 1224262507 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the implementation of +wimpmode will be < 1224262529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : that must have been ages ago, probably I could find it in the changelog if I looked < 1224262533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1224262534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224262542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the file naming < 1224262545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1224263904 0 :Mony!n=AssHole@AToulouse-258-1-104-60.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224263959 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plop < 1224264050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why plop? < 1224264077 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :juste because < 1224264116 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not ? < 1224264763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed why not < 1224266032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well anyway I will begin messing with input buffering in efunge to make it compatible with ATHR. Implementing ATHR will take some time < 1224266041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I don't have a lot of that currently < 1224266051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, you're planning to actually implement it? < 1224266083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes of course < 1224266084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in efunge < 1224266087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in cfunge < 1224266095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so don't worry about it messing up ick < 1224266112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I suspect doing it in C would be a pain anyway < 1224266135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, didn't you think I would implement it?! < 1224266171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there are a lot of random lang ideas which are thrown around here and then not implemented < 1224266180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, of course TRDS won't ever be supported < 1224266191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my interpreters < 1224266199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not even if you write featherfunge some day? < 1224266202 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would probably be trivial in that < 1224266230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I consider that a very hypothetical question. < 1224266237 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, exactly < 1224266241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) There is no working Feather yet < 1224266244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that involves having a working Feather first < 1224266252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you being motivated to write a Funge interp in it < 1224266258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) I never said I would write a feather funge indeed < 1224266316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway are there any languages other than erlang where ATHR would be reasonably easy to implement? < 1224266326 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Befunge, I think < 1224266337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, "ATHR may not be implemented as synchronous by lazy programmers writing a < 1224266337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funge-implementation. That is considered very bad style. ATHR should be truly < 1224266337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asynchronous." < 1224266347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VERY BAD STYLE < 1224266349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... ok < 1224266351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the style police will kill you < 1224266355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at night < 1224266356 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about INTERCAL < 1224266370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does it have something async enough? < 1224266376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how about "my language DOES NOT SUPPORT truly asynchronous threads, shut up and let me implement it for compatibility" < 1224266377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has synchronous multithreading in theory, but it's easier to treat it as asynch rather than trying to figure out how the synchrony works < 1224266395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also "truly asynchronous threads" are impossible on a single-core system. < 1224266407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I was planning distributed < 1224266416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has ONCE/AGAIN and ABSTAIN/REINSTATE as its atomic primitives < 1224266426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: let people implement it however. < 1224266441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(actually all commands are atomic in the current implementation, but ONCE/AGAIN/ABSTAIN/REINSTATE are the only keywords for which atomicity matters) < 1224266450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, Uf you feel offended you may have a better wording? I just want discourage it being implemented the same way as t by lazy programmers < 1224266461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it won't be... < 1224266463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Uf/If/ < 1224266465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the whole purpose is not being t < 1224266468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so just remove the paragraph < 1224266472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus, its very self-evident from reading it < 1224266475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well Deewiant seemed to suggest doing it that way < 1224266478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: actually, I'd probably lazily implement it t-style < 1224266479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... < 1224266482 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I just wanted to get something working < 1224266493 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'd deliberately skip steps every now and then at random < 1224266500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make it actually asynchronous < 1224266502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then < 1224266504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let them do that < 1224266507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's nothing wrong with that. < 1224266518 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like all my HQ9+ interps have an accumulator, even though there's no way to tell from inside the program that it's there < 1224266641 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should have a -O flag :) < 1224266682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: that should store the accumulator in a register, for faster access < 1224266784 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and possibly interleave consecutuve < 1224266794 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*consecutive +s < 1224267113 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: huh? when did I say that < 1224267136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, in this channel < 1224267155 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: when, not where. < 1224267164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION greps log
< 1224267320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it was when discussing MVRS and ATHR < 1224267338 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give me a quote or timestamp < 1224267352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okt 16 13:08:08 AnMaster: but we wanted the option of sync vs. async < 1224267365 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@m-85.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1224267367 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that was about MVRS < 1224267377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, while you didn't say it straight out, what you said seemed to imply you wanted sync ATHR < 1224267392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okt 16 13:03:36 right, but what would ATHRs containing MVRSs even be? < 1224267394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example < 1224267394 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that was wholly about MVRS < 1224267402 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that latter was just me not understanding < 1224267410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, them I'm sorry is if I misunderstood < 1224267422 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine < 1224267435 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sorry I was misunderstood :-P < 1224267477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway MVRS is too badly specced to be sure, So I'm going to contact Riley with the spec when I worked out the output bit and try to fix that < 1224267490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, also did you see the last version where "mutex" have become "book"? < 1224267493 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MVRS is much less than it was supposed to be < 1224267510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/BETCqd29.html < 1224267512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the current one < 1224267513 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, but I didn't really read through the earlier ATHR specs in detail either :-P < 1224267539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway mutexes are now books in a library :P < 1224267555 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds to me like you've had too much to do with INTERCAL < 1224267564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's a very INTERCAL-like analogy < 1224267575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I added the security considerations there < 1224267584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, great < 1224267587 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have a look at them < 1224267599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and what is wrong with that? < 1224267613 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing really, just making an observation :-P < 1224267620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1224267650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, "too much" often indicates "more than what is a good idea" implying something is wrong < 1224267666 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, having anything to do with INTERCAL is arguably a bad idea ;-) < 1224267671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any amount is too much to do with INTERCAL, probably < 1224267672 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: snap < 1224267974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1224268009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: we both said much the same thing, that was what the snap was about < 1224268015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224268017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an idiom that comes from a children's game < 1224268024 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people take turns revealing cards from the top of a deck < 1224268029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1224268034 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when two the same in a row are revealed, the first person to say "Snap!" wins < 1224268040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's all about reactions, really < 1224268054 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are also various rules about how you can reveal the cards, as an anti-cheating measure < 1224268066 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to prevent people looking at the cards before other people can see them) < 1224268226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ehird Deewiant, do you like the new top section better in http://rafb.net/p/18vBZT98.html < 1224268259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224268262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still says DRAFT < 1224268263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the security consideration too < 1224268272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+!DRAFT!++!DRAFT!++!DRAFT!++!DRAFT!++!DRAFT!++!DRAFT!++!DRAFT!++!DRAFT!++!DRAFT!++!DRAFT!++!DRAFT!+ < 1224268273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, of course, because it is still a draft < 1224268277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't done yet < 1224268284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we all know that < 1224268287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is why there is a TODO comment in the IO section < 1224268294 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is Heikki Kallasjoki, btw? < 1224268295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we wouldn't take some random pastebin post as something we should go implement right now < 1224268298 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: fizzie < 1224268298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, fizzie < 1224268299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hilariously over the top < 1224268321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I believe I gave my reasons for it yesterday < 1224268323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... < 1224268327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not any good ones < 1224268329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please see that < 1224268334 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what were the reasons again? < 1224268397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that if nothing else, working with befunge programmers have taught me that it is better to over-specify and try to be extra clear (not sure if that is the right English word)... < 1224268409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why not? < 1224268413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because someone will surely interpret anything you didn't state in a way you didn't intent < 1224268423 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are Befunge programs generally sloppy and ambiguous? < 1224268425 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*programmers < 1224268451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no, but considering all the disputes about what fingerprint specs, or even the funge-98 spec actually means... < 1224268461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats because they're both written rubbishly < 1224268464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even for some cats eye fingerprints... < 1224268466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't mean you should go so over the top < 1224268482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I believe the English idiom is "better safe than sorry" < 1224268488 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it is < 1224268497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, OVERENGINEERING is FUN < 1224268507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no its not < 1224268508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well yeah but only on school assignments < 1224268512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not when AnMaster is being serious < 1224268512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::\ < 1224268531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, You just fail at meta-meta-meta-humor :P < 1224268666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It'd help if it was funny < 1224268679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: actually it's funnier because it's serious < 1224268687 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and AnMaster: one too many metas I think, unless I'm missing something < 1224268688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i disagree totally < 1224268779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, actually I think I may have forgot a meta < 1224268975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you can have ATHR without having t. < 1224268982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1224269964 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1224270049 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : please please don't let this become sort of channel in-joke < 1224270051 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sucker! < 1224270066 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, DRAFT DRAFT DRAFT DRAFT < 1224270099 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | This channel is a !! DRAFT !! DRAFT !! DRAFT !! DRAFT !! < 1224270336 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DROFT < 1224270353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this channel is daft, more like < 1224270362 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You hurt my feelings < 1224270370 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and has a lot of drift < 1224270388 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drip < 1224270409 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drop < 1224270411 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :droop < 1224270454 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drambuie < 1224270465 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drum < 1224270477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DRAFT < 1224270485 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DRAT < 1224270488 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION dodges the draft
< 1224270511 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION writes it up in case Slereah_ ever tries to run for president
< 1224270557 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS IS A MUDSLINGING CAMPAIGN DESIGNED TO SULLY MY GOOD NAME < 1224270563 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'M A HARD WORKING AMERICAN < 1224270571 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY FATHER WAS JOE SIXPACK < 1224270578 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY MOTHER WAS JOE THE PLUMBER < 1224270587 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1224270615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION was amused at all the focus on Joe the Plumber, when he seems to be some sort of richish entrepreneur, not the sort of typical American at all
< 1224270620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, "BAD: i should have pushed (90, 16) as Vb", why is it so hard to output what it pushed instead? :/ < 1224270639 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What of Joe Sixpack? < 1224270645 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is he a real hardworking American? < 1224270650 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because doing that requires a lot more code and it's possible that it didn't even push anything < 1224270676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah hm < 1224270806 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: a beer reporter, says google < 1224270819 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is this a hard working job? < 1224270828 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly < 1224270896 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends how bad the beer is < 1224270916 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but face it, there's a beer market out there < 1224270939 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.boxingdaily.co.uk/wp-content/img/notasixer.JPG < 1224270945 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is apparently Joe Sixpack < 1224270977 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://media1.break.com/dnet/media/2007/11/27halloween.jpg < 1224271242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but...Canada < 1224271249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he either loves nomic < 1224271251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or HATES AMERICA < 1224271286 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can a man with such a moustache really hate America? < 1224271303 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He also has arms that bear arms < 1224271379 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doges the draft by 4Fing out
< 1224271406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : {MaxX, MaxY} = load_binary(Binary, Fungespace, TrueX, TrueY, false, TrueX, undefined), < 1224271409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that is crazy < 1224271419 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4f? < 1224271433 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exempt from military service for medical reasons. < 1224271435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the two last parameters are only there because of i < 1224271449 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mental disability in my case, amusingly. < 1224271497 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq : How are you mentally disabled? < 1224271504 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Autism. < 1224271505 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have... ASPERGERS? < 1224271509 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn, so close! < 1224271546 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it weren't for that, I could feasibly pull off conscientous objector. < 1224271564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"conscientous objector"? < 1224271610 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One who objects to military service for philosophical or religious reasons. < 1224271628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224271646 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, a coward < 1224271660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a pacifist. < 1224271703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can autism get you off the draft? < 1224271707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, unless it was severe autism. < 1224271716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you sure don't act like it :-P < 1224271991 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The military tends to be pretty picky when it comes to mental status. < 1224272002 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keep in mind: they considered *Feynman* mentally unfit. ;p < 1224272030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb ais523 < 1224272071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm anyone got a program testing i in binary mode? < 1224272074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, maybe you? < 1224272125 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1224272137 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except mycology < 1224272147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it only does it in text mode iirc < 1224272152 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it does both < 1224272157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, really? < 1224272159 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224272165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, where? < 1224272169 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where it tests i < 1224272200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well why then doesn't it crash or report BAD? Since I don't implement the binary one yet. < 1224272216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I implement i but not o btw < 1224272219 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs o I think < 1224272223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1224272228 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it does < 1224272232 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it writes a .tmp < 1224272235 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and reads it back in with binary i < 1224272304 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hmm, does it say anything about lack of o? < 1224272326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Successfully exited MycoRand. Rerun a few times to ensure ? works. < 1224272327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD: i works in text mode < 1224272327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opening mycotmp0.tmp... failed. < 1224272327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to write to it with o... < 1224272327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNDEF: writing to mycotmp0.tmp with o failed < 1224272330 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why don't every draft dodgers register as consciencious objectors? < 1224272340 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, do they check it or something? < 1224272349 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: right < 1224272350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, y only claims to implement i < 1224272367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so why it tries testing it at all and report it as UNDEF... no idea < 1224272375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like a bug < 1224272388 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because the code there is compact and changing it from BAD to UNDEF was easiest < 1224272402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah, and no room to expand? < 1224272409 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly < 1224272415 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mycorand.bf is loaded nearby < 1224272425 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what exactly goes where there < 1224272435 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'd rather not expand < 1224272437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah... < 1224272449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but it is all relative storage offset so that is easy < 1224272458 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ? < 1224272469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, i is relative storage offset. < 1224272470 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is that mycorand.bf is there somewhere, but not in the source code < 1224272482 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I don't know where I can expand without running into mycorand.bf stuff < 1224272485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so just moving everything down a few lines should work? < 1224272491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you properly use storage offset < 1224272510 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't, there < 1224272515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1224272527 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably wouldn't be too hard to make it do so though < 1224272532 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but annoying < 1224272536 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can't be bothered < 1224272555 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: at least here in norway, if you register as a conscientous objector, you have to do some civilian community work instead < 1224272579 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't you also be an objector to that? < 1224272583 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like saying "I'm an anarchist" < 1224272601 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: no. then you go to prison, i believe. < 1224272610 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What dicks < 1224272619 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pay taxes! I don't need to work for you! < 1224272629 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't pay taxes to Norway < 1224272630 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still < 1224272686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes you do! < 1224272701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I can avoid it for two reasons 1) Gov cuts down on military anyway all the time 2) I got asthma, so health reasons as well < 1224272721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they didn't even contact me about it. heh < 1224272729 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well (1) applies in norway too, it would be stupid to object _before_ you're called in < 1224272823 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: can you hg pull a Mycology from 88.114.230.95:8000? < 1224272853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, a sec < 1224272861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what is the hg command? < 1224272875 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if you have a repository, hg pull, if not, hg clone < 1224272885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ hg clone 88.114.230.95:8000 mycology < 1224272885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :abort: repository 88.114.230.95:8000 not found! < 1224272895 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http < 1224272898 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::// < 1224272899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1224272921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Successfully exited MycoRand. Rerun a few times to ensure ? works. < 1224272921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOOD: i works in text mode < 1224272921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opening mycotmp0.tmp... failed. < 1224272921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying to write to it with o... < 1224272923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still like that < 1224272928 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know < 1224272929 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what after that < 1224272937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNDEF: writing to mycotmp0.tmp with o failed: can't test i in binary mode < 1224272937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1y says this is not Concurrent Funge-98, won't test t... < 1224272941 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great < 1224272956 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: says explicitly that it isn't testing i in binary mode because of no o < 1224272956 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mycology. < 1224272966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah < 1224272980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, still tries o even when it isn't supported though ;P < 1224272988 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: even fitting that string in took a bit of messing about which is why I asked you to test < 1224272996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1224273045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you could potentially test it on mycorand.bf < 1224273057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to see if it is read correctly by i when i is in binary mode < 1224273070 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I could < 1224273074 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't. :-P < 1224273159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway when ATHR goes final and efunge implemented it, will you consider implementing it in ccbi2? < 1224273177 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :m a y b e < 1224273213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, maybe you could send those MVRS change suggestions to Riley? < 1224273224 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :m a y b e < 1224273224 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1224273225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otherwise ATHR is actually more useful since it is better defined < 1224273240 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might spam him when I get around to implementing it < 1224273251 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can't really be bothered right now < 1224273258 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you are bothered, better that you do it < 1224273273 0 :ab5tract!n=ab5tract@pool-71-246-5-13.phlapa.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1224273290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, also it doesn't seem to allow lacking support for trefunge/unefunge, only for befunge-93/funge-98/funge-108 < 1224273341 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funge-108?? < 1224273358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, work in progress, clearing up issues in funge-98 < 1224273365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :may become funge-109 ;P < 1224273369 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1224273374 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds better that way anyway < 1224273377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1224273381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1224273403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, it depends on when I finish it and when feedback from others are finished < 1224273410 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just does < 1224273422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, see http://kuonet.org/~anmaster/funge-108/funge108.pdf < 1224273433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it replaces fingerprints with uris too < 1224273451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to avoid collisions < 1224273473 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1224273474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract: There are no actual funge-108 implementations, likely will never be any outside of AnMaster's implementations, and there will likely not be any non-anmaster programs written in it. < 1224273482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is my assesment. < 1224273485 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1224273500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well Mike Riley did show some interest in it < 1224273513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, while URIs are good for...universally identifying stuff (as in... their whole purpose)...it just makes the funge code ugly because the URIs take up whole lines. < 1224273514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only he didn't want to implement proper URI comparing < 1224273532 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: so what < 1224273546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract: funge code is generally pretty < 1224273557 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could still be pretty < 1224273561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mycology is? < 1224273565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224273574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so would it be with embedded uris IMO < 1224273583 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have a stack on your stack stack that just stacks uris < 1224273597 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and put them somewhere far out in the space, all together in a neat order < 1224273630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, name collisions were a problem before < 1224273632 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course i'm visualizing this entirely according to what i envisage as the perfect funge ide < 1224273651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, IDEs? Why would you need that < 1224273660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all you need is a emacs major-mode < 1224273661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1224273676 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that funge doesnt read like a a linear ascii file anymore < 1224273677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract: i'm planning on making a funge ide < 1224273685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including fizzie's hyperlink-comment idea think < 1224273686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*thing < 1224273692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, I hardly ever use IDEs for anything < 1224273714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from CDs < 1224273718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I normally use SATA :P < 1224273737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and no I don't use IDE in the other meaning either) < 1224273756 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well shit, AnMaster you have that emacs together and i'll use it once i can directly download emacs bindings coordination through a memory expansion through a e-sata port in my skull < 1224273770 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but probably not before that :) < 1224273789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, Try kate then? Currently I'm using kate to edit some Erlang code < 1224273793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and irc in emacs < 1224273799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and emacs for some other C files < 1224273805 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i want is a window that shows the space < 1224273823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, hm? < 1224273829 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i can zoom and fly around it and whatnot < 1224273830 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs is excellent for VHDL, I find < 1224273835 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with all sorts of bookmarks < 1224273838 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VHDL's syntax is obnoxious < 1224273844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, that only make sense for trefunge < 1224273848 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so Emacs has a little wizard-like thing for each keyword < 1224273851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for befunge a text editor is just fine < 1224273856 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it can make sense for mbefunge as well < 1224273862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hehe < 1224273863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... < 1224273876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mbefunge? < 1224273885 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: typo < 1224273887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224273904 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1224273907 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract: you've named it, you now have to invent it < 1224273910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, anyway opengl based such stuff have been done, but generally they suck < 1224273916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bequnge or something iirc < 1224273923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fails totally in mycology < 1224273925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk food < 1224273955 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what's your ide going to look like? < 1224273960 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-127-174.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1224273974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract: awesome < 1224273984 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :swtjc < 1224274001 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you gonna write it in funge? < 1224274242 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: is emacs capable of having a zoomed out map of an entire 64-bit space? < 1224274266 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously it would have to be a pretty complex program for anything to even show up at that distance < 1224274275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1224274282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it would mostly show up as sameness if it did < 1224274292 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because a program that big's likely to be using its fungespace to store data rather than program < 1224274298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i wont < 1224274299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1224274310 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the idea is to be able to navigate the space on an x,y, and even z access < 1224274323 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: precisely < 1224274366 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :z probably not being allowed to go negative < 1224274397 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can zoom out and check out all yo' data < 1224274457 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, if emacs gives a great deal of x,y freedom then it would give me the most important feature i seek < 1224274475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract: emacs has picture-mode < 1224274477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: is emacs capable of having a zoomed out map of an entire 64-bit space? < 1224274482 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't have a zoom IIRC < 1224274486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that is feasible < 1224274498 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, ab5tract, stop having a 5 in your name, it makes me think people are talking to me when they talk to you < 1224274507 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry buddy < 1224274515 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm used to being the only 5-containing-person around here < 1224274519 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not gonna happen :P < 1224274520 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but don't worry about it < 1224274530 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have an exclusive right to 5s... < 1224274553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, also as I said when you had left channel in answer to GUI framework < 1224274560 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if irc were truly cool i coud use the befunge version of my name < 1224274568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) gs is part of standard erlang. It uses Tk. < 1224274588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) Wings3D (a 3D modeller in Erlang) uses some custom-made one that renders to OpenGL < 1224274598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3) fizzie added there was erlgtk < 1224274608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there may be more < 1224274609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1224274615 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1224274628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, but bindings for funge would be painful < 1224274653 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the idea of funge on erlang is very cool < 1224274656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, but since I plan to make = *evaluate erlang*, this may be a good idea < 1224274661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it may not < 1224274674 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to write a funge interp in something silly now < 1224274679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Thutu, that would be a disaster < 1224274683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway doing = as system() would be truly painful in erlang < 1224274688 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can, apparently, with a bit of twiddling, use Tile (the less sucky Tk widget set) with Tkinter (the Python Tk bindings); I wonder if that's the case of 'gs' too. < 1224274699 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... actually, I have some ideas how a Thutu interp for Befunge-93 could work... < 1224274699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, anyway efunge now have i also, but not o t or = yet < 1224274719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, t may never happen, since it will have ATHR < 1224274723 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you must do that < 1224274744 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I have lots of other esostuff I want to do < 1224274749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract, however, I must warn you that I'm a I'm a slow worker, especially during non-holidays < 1224274749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and two RL projects which are almost eso < 1224274751 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: funge-108 should just assume ATHR < 1224274767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and no idea about that for gs < 1224274773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gs stands for graphic server btw < 1224274780 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "almost eso" sounds pretty cool < 1224274783 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some reason I find the Tk look quaint. < 1224274801 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract: I described my University fourth-year Masters project in this channel < 1224274803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it reminds me of mosaic yes... < 1224274803 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because its like pre-motif right? < 1224274805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the people here said I was mad < 1224274815 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1224274816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I think it used motif < 1224274826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes mosaic did indeed < 1224274837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1224274840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tk isnt as old as motif < 1224274840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1224274843 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, Tile is part of the 8.5 Tcl/Tk release. Didn't know that. < 1224274845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tk has modern widget sets nowadays < 1224274849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, looks similar < 1224274854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe < 1224274880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not maybe < 1224274881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does < 1224274882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know for a fact < 1224274885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what I wonder is how Tk can work with gs since I have no tcl installed < 1224274892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1224274894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't tcl < 1224274902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's tclsh8.4 < 1224274906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah so I have it < 1224274922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb ais523 < 1224274977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1224276054 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Hey, try speaking like Terry Pratchett writes. Just for curiosity's sake. < 1224276054 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: no, that was their trouble... < 1224276067 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Pretty please? < 1224276068 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ( kids generally, i meet people before they're buried./ ones near/ coast build rafts and head out across lonely seas to lands that are :) little clouded or full of stormy weather. < 1224276094 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_Really_, that "other text than irclogs" script has some serious issues with :) and /. < 1224276129 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmm... < 1224276201 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, no. It's just that the text generation code in fungot has a hardcoded list of punctuation tokens, but since :) and / are so _rare_ in the source text, they are not used, and in their place there's some of the most common tokens. < 1224276201 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: carrot took another step back. then, his claws fnord tracks in/ floor above. every so often. < 1224276228 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think "the" has been mapped to / here, and :) maybe to "a". < 1224276265 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's easy to fix. Thanks for clarifying it. < 1224276435 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :carrot doesn't have claws! < 1224276448 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR DO THEY < 1224276524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fungot: Hey, try speaking like Terry Pratchett writes. Just for curiosity's sake. < 1224276525 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ( i know." :) stubby troll finger prodded cuddy in/ back of his mind. < 1224276528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would that be? < 1224276534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have read all the books of course < 1224276553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait... You mean like Carrot? with misplaced , < 1224276554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and such < 1224276557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or like Vampires? < 1224276577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait a sec < 1224276586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: ( i know." :) stubby troll finger prodded cuddy in/ back of his mind. <-- huh < 1224276595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you reloaded word list? < 1224276600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also did it crash now? < 1224276603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, < 1224276607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo foo < 1224276609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess so < 1224276615 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I was just scp'ing the new model over and you went and talked to it. :p < 1224276618 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer) < 1224276638 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1224276648 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot's problem with :) and / should now be fixed. < 1224276648 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: " oh. pardon me, i'm just a novice, but he couldn't quite see what it did to metal. < 1224276663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, :) < 1224276663 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: " you can damn well find another witch for lancre! for the fnord < 1224276685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I fear the " mess up the effect < 1224276687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same for :) < 1224276706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a fan of those books. Yet they lack :) as far as I remember < 1224276706 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the " comes from the source text. < 1224276715 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that was the problem. < 1224276718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, which book(s) did you use? < 1224276732 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There were no :)s and :(s so it removed those tokens, but fungot's punctuation list is hardcoded. < 1224276732 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: " will you look at that sky?' < 1224276751 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the two most common tokens ("the" and "a") were translated to the two last punctuation tokens (:) and /) by fungot. < 1224276751 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: he turned and waved at someone in the face. < 1224276754 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's fixed now. < 1224276766 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The " comes from the source text, though. Lots of quoted text there. < 1224276803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well yeah, all the talk < 1224276813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway *what books*? < 1224276822 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used the Discworld books 1, 3, 7, 8, 9, 13, 14, 15, 16, 17, 18, 19, 20, 21, 23, 25, 26 and 27. < 1224276838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, where did you get electronic copies? < 1224276839 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mainly because those were in the highly illegal ebook pile I once got. < 1224276844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah... < 1224276853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, So what ones are those? < 1224276856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Titles I mean < 1224276888 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Colour of Magic, Equal Rites, Pyramids, Guards! Guards!, Eric, Small Gods, Lords and Ladies, Men At Arms, Soul Music, Interesting Times, ... < 1224276899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also lacking number 2 is kind of painful if you have number 1. Since 1 ends with "to be continued" < 1224276915 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maskerade, Feet of Clay, Hogfather, Jingo, Carpe Jugulum, The Truth, The Thief of Time, The Last Hero. < 1224276918 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither 1 nor 2 is much good anyway < 1224276924 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of the later ones are good, though < 1224276924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, agreed < 1224276929 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably 3 was the first good one < 1224276939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Thief of time is my favourite < 1224276960 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my favourite are the Ankh-Morpork Watch trilogy, but thief of time is good too < 1224276967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trilogy? < 1224276971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it more than that now? < 1224276993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I suppose so < 1224277003 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not counting night watch as part of that trilogy, although it's OK < 1224277018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets see, 7 < 1224277020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1224277026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some more depending on how you count < 1224277031 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thief of time is probably my favourite too, though I liked the Bromeliad trilogy < 1224277056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you think about the last one? Nation? < 1224277065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't read it < 1224277072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is pretty good, but kind of non-Pratchett in style < 1224277134 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't read anything later-than-or-equal-to Going Postal yet, actually. < 1224277153 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Going Postal series is pretty good, actually < 1224277159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well I got the complete collection of all books apart from some child books < 1224277160 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... some of the books I have to read multiple times to understand < 1224277172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Going Postal is one of them, but once I got it I liked it < 1224277174 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster : Do you have the non-discworld books too? < 1224277175 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get maurice and the amazing cat :D < 1224277177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_, yes < 1224277179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the maps < 1224277187 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(err... Maurice and his amazing rodents) < 1224277192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal, that one too < 1224277193 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even... The unadultarated cat? :o < 1224277196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_, yep < 1224277197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1224277206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_, I don't have that "where is my cow" < 1224277216 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It never got translated in French, so I wonder if it's well known < 1224277223 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have it, but I had to order it < 1224277230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_, err why would French be of any interest? < 1224277238 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I am Fronch < 1224277242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I live in Sweden after all < 1224277244 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And all other books are translated < 1224277253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_, well I get them in English anyway < 1224277254 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even shitty ones like Dark side of the sun < 1224277263 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the Johnny books < 1224277263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :preserves the language, reading in original language < 1224277269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_, dark side isn't that bad < 1224277277 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I personally only own The Science of Discworld 1/2/3 and some (around six?) random Discworld books, probably with a uniform distribution of Finnish translations (received as gifts) and English versions (bought for reading when travelling). < 1224277282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_, what do you think about Carpet people? < 1224277289 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's good < 1224277299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_, do you have new or original version? < 1224277302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only got the new one < 1224277320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_, also that is another thing I miss, some of the discworld diaries < 1224277334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_, also I assume you got the discworld quiz books? < 1224277388 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously I picked the right author for fungot to quote from. :p < 1224277388 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: " samuel!" said caleb. " everything we believe is coming true. and her leg still dropped off. so i thought i'd better make certain.' < 1224277389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I lack some of those "short stories" that are listed in "books by the same author". < 1224277419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well he is well known, he writes fantasy (though unusual such) and we are geeks. What did you expect? < 1224277438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION glares at fungot
< 1224277438 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: angua picked out the little organizer and raised the cleaver and brought it down. < 1224277445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1224277446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1224277458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I think these sounds pretty bad in fact < 1224277487 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think very many other well-known fantasy authors would have multiple people here owning a rather complete collection of such a large set of books. < 1224277505 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it isn't very conversational. < 1224277509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also it would be more realistic if the space between " and the text is correct < 1224277517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot? < 1224277517 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ' it goes with us. it's very urgent.' < 1224277518 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll get to that one of these days. < 1224277526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot really? < 1224277526 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: dorfl wrote: ' wuffles ( 16), formerly of the palace. < 1224277531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1224277533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a mixup < 1224277572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what was the logic for that one? < 1224277589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, What about the copyright on your quotes? < 1224277589 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: individual concerned. of course. < 1224277598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, really? < 1224277602 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Punctuation is separate tokens, so when it choose "wuffles", it only had "wrote: '" as context. < 1224277603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah hit the limit.. < 1224277628 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | hrrm < 1224277639 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I have very many other large collections of text on my computer to use as source text. So far IRC-talk has worked best for generating IRC-talk-like text -- a huge surprise, there. < 1224277639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, "wuffles (16), formerly of the palace." kind of make sense for The Truth though < 1224277673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, maybe some space cleaning? Like removing the space after ( and such < 1224277675 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Just go back to IRC-speak. < 1224277676 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: run full, run delegate, more. < 1224277696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well now it will be that if you include this channel in the log < 1224277697 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The space after ( is just an artifact of the Funge-98 token-sequence-to-text implementation. < 1224277710 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll get it fixed at some point. < 1224277716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, maybe you should bug fizzie about refining it? < 1224277717 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you can approach it symbolically! fnord < 1224277731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, like... in lisp? But you are in Befunge... How would that work? < 1224277732 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: seems not. < 1224277747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, great that you admit your mistakes < 1224277747 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and i'm sick of arguing with trotskyists when i was there i think < 1224277757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, trotskyists? < 1224277767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what book? < 1224277789 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's IRC-speak now, probably from #scheme. < 1224277818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, using discworld was cool :P < 1224277826 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This really reminds me of arguing with Trotskyists when I was a young lad. They're all necons now, of course." was the original quote. < 1224277838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1224277863 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It used the "of arguing with" context to switch to the Trotskyists phase, and "when I was" context to go somewhere else. < 1224277914 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Discworld didn't actually work as badly as (or at least any worse than) Darwin, but it still didn't sound like conversation. < 1224277928 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I should feed it some telephone conversations. < 1224278003 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to have 86 megabytes of transcribed telephone conversations here. < 1224278020 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not quite sure what our license allows us to do with it, though. < 1224278108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you tried Darwin? < 1224278109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When? < 1224278141 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A couple of times, actually. < 1224278154 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some twenty or so books of his. < 1224278156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, got some quotes of it? < 1224278167 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it was full of :)s and /s and biology. :p < 1224278171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, Charles Darwin produced that many? < 1224278178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh < 1224278189 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same bug there. < 1224278192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and an archaic language I guess < 1224278202 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zem.fi/~fis/darwinbooks.txt is the list of books I used. < 1224278512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darwin is awesome < 1224278516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did i tell you about how he's a pope? < 1224278517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true story. < 1224278527 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whirrrr, there go the telephone conversations. < 1224278567 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5849 separate ten-minute phonecalls. < 1224278611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1224278625 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's something like a thousand hours of speech. < 1224278649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you doing < 1224278675 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Running out of memory, it seems. :p < 1224278683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i mean < 1224278685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the goooooal < 1224278693 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: fizzie's planning to feed them to fungot < 1224278693 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how dare you steal that version of hato, it's buggy < 1224278701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crazy < 1224278706 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: also: did you invent BrainfuckNomic < 1224278713 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone in ##nomic thought you did, but wasn't sure < 1224278716 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's FOR SCIENCE < 1224278718 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I don't think I did. < 1224278734 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Two gigabytes of memory and two gigabytes of swap in use, I'm not sure my script can handle all that. < 1224278734 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: how about the funge spec? < 1224278744 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for fungot i mean < 1224278745 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab5tract: you still need something to pay the coders to fix it < 1224278794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey! Who wants to roll a securely random number???? < 1224278823 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :return 4; < 1224278843 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: randomest number there is < 1224278861 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact i was thinking of exactly that < 1224278875 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone in the theoretical computer science lab has that Dilbert strip about RNGs on their door. < 1224278906 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is that strip, fizzie < 1224278913 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And here we have our random number generator..." (troll saying:) "Nine, nine, nine, nine, nine, nine..." "Are you sure that's random?" "That's the problem with randomness, you can never be sure." < 1224278922 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe that sort of transcription would be enough to find it. < 1224278926 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yes, that one < 1224278930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it's quite a clever joke < 1224278947 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My browser seems to have hung up thanks to that Perl script eating all the memory. < 1224278962 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although usually, random numbers generator aren't made to do real randomness < 1224278966 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: maybe you should feed it less input? < 1224278969 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, at least not with the things I use 'em for < 1224278978 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They just need to fit a distribution < 1224278990 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's a good idea, but I don't want to interrupt it now, in the hopes that it will be done real-soon-now. < 1224279018 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's less raw data than the IRC logs, but apparently somewhat different, since the irc-log-model-building didn't take quite this long. < 1224279057 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, it got past stage 2 (selecting the tokens) and is now converting all the conversations to a single string of tokens. < 1224279201 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure that it will finish soon and then I'll notice that the script was somehow borken and the output is unusable. < 1224279297 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, now that I think of it, I think I ran the IRC logs thing on one of the computing cluster machines with heaps of memory, and not on my own puny computar. (Since no-one seemed to be using them right then.) < 1224279399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, they are in use now? < 1224279406 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't checked. < 1224279452 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems pretty busy, actually. Node 13 only has a load of 1, though. < 1224279454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and couldn't you do like processing it in chunks and then merging those chunks later? < 1224279472 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly, but I haven't spent much time tweaking this thing. < 1224279526 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: which cluster is that? < 1224279563 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: The HUT CIS one. Well, I guess we're now called ICS, having merged with the TCS people, and I think they're in the process of merging our computing systems. < 1224279600 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAH < 1224279608 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So much acronyms... < 1224279612 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It... Burns! < 1224279700 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HUT is Helsinki University of Technology (although they're in the process of changing the name and merging with two other universities; one for arts and one for CAPITALISM, I mean, commerce and all that stuff); CIS was Center for Information Science (maybe?), ICS is Information and Computer Science, and TCS is Theoretical Computer Science. < 1224279712 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly a case of AOL < 1224279724 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's all very confusing; I'm not quite sure where I work. < 1224279733 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you do work? < 1224279752 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have to answer that < 1224279754 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should be writing my master's thesis around now. < 1224279758 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yeah, I just checked the TCS one and it wasn't that one so I was wondering ;-) < 1224279768 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a bunch of room there if you have access to it. < 1224279813 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: There was some talk about getting the computing clusters set up so that all now-ICS-people can access both ones by October, but I haven't heard any news and/or instructions yet. < 1224279823 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They did change my numerical UID to avoid conflicts, though. < 1224279831 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1224279901 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some three of the ten "newer nodes" in the CIS cluster only have two of the four cores in use, so I guess there would technically speaking be some room there too. < 1224279915 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1224279918 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what, you're part-timing at CIS? < 1224279929 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Full-timing nowadays, doing that master's thesis thing. < 1224279945 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright < 1224279952 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was at TCS over the summer < 1224279970 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was at ICS for the last summer (2007) and got stuck there. < 1224279971 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would have probably continued if I hadn't started at HSE < 1224279989 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the script has actually finished, since the data file has stopped growing, but it's not stopping. Maybe Perl is doing that full garbage-collection trip it does when quitting. < 1224279990 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might be back next summer, though. < 1224280034 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, it finished; now it's anyone's guess if my C++ code can handle building 4-grams out of that mess. < 1224280087 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I quite got the script to clean up the conversations right. < 1224280138 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :91328 unigrams, 2200072 bigrams, and now it's computing 3-gram counts. < 1224280152 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5851827 3-grams; 4-grams next. < 1224280179 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I really should've done something more clever here, but I was in a hurry to get some sort of babbling out of fungot. < 1224280179 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: sounds challenging. :) i just remembered < 1224280205 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot was chattering all the time, I didn't want my bot to be so quiet. < 1224280205 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hm? < 1224280214 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: Well, you were! < 1224280215 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: there should be more of a market for esolang programmers < 1224280232 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we all agree on that one, at least. < 1224280242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1224280304 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah; I'd be worried if companies actually /wanted/ you to use esolangs < 1224280335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: if VHDL is an esolang, lots do < 1224280343 0 :slereah!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-39-168.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224280348 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it isn't, though < 1224280371 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Nokia gave me a summer job in 2006 for knowing Befunge. (Okay, so the chain of causality is maybe not exactly clear, but I'm sure that was the main reason they had.) < 1224280387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: go on < 1224280391 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1224280392 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did that happen? < 1224280405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they were interested in that he had esolangs in his hobbies section on his cv < 1224280407 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I talked about this just yesterday or so, I'm not sure I want to bore people again with it. < 1224280408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1224280413 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: sure, I'm sure it helped for my TCS summer job as well. Hell, CCBI and Mycology were pretty much the only things on my CV. < 1224280414 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a reasonable summary. < 1224280426 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ah, I wasn't here yesterday < 1224280444 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: but, nobody's wanted me to actually /use/ Funge for something :-) < 1224280448 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you, I hope. < 1224280459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i totally hope i can get a job with such achievements as "wrote a program to roll a dice between two people, cheat-proof' < 1224280461 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, no, it was just Perl. :p < 1224280543 0 :slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1224280601 0 :Fourchan_Partyva!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-39-168.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224280648 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finish, you silly little piece of code! < 1224280658 0 :Fourchan_Partyva!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Language, fizzie < 1224280664 0 :Fourchan_Partyva!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Slereah < 1224280749 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would endure this better if I wasn't so sure that it's going to just start generating messy and uninteresting jumble of words as output. < 1224280814 0 :Corun!n=Corun@94-192-102-5.zone6.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1224281221 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's only 350 lines of C++, how can it take so long to execute it! < 1224281559 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can give you 11 chars of bash which will take a while < 1224281575 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: the standard obfuscated fork bomb? < 1224281601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::(){:};: is shorter, and an infiniloop I think < 1224281616 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although really we need AnMaster to check that, e's the resident Bash expert < 1224281624 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks sensible. < 1224281634 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it doesn't really < 1224281638 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't beat Windows batch, though :-P < 1224281638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only esoprogrammers write like that < 1224281640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1224281643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even Perl has more letters usually < 1224281653 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: is :(){:};: an infiniloop in bash? < 1224281656 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although hmm < 1224281660 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just being impatient because I'd like to see fungot talk like an American telephone conversationalist. < 1224281660 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: on my end, that's solved, i think < 1224281662 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@j-214.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1224281662 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does $0|$0 do < 1224281665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and does bash optimise tail-recursion, for that matter? < 1224281667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I usually don't do recursion in bash < 1224281670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never tried even < 1224281690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not the language I would write functional style in < 1224281692 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anybody want to try $0|$0? < 1224281699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, no! < 1224281701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and don't < 1224281706 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that a better fork bomb? < 1224281706 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you just divide by zero? < 1224281715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well piping bash to bash < 1224281716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1224281730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but should be better since it only start one bash in each < 1224281745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah, and no < 1224281777 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: evidently it doesn't bomb < 1224281786 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe in a file? < 1224281786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well yeah < 1224281790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still silly < 1224281794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1224281798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was debugging erlang atm < 1224281798 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1224281804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :** exception exit: {noproc,{gen_server,call,[efunge_input,stop]}} < 1224281804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : in function gen_server:call/2 < 1224281804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : in call from efunge:start/2 < 1224281805 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can't be a fork bomb < 1224281806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes no sense < 1224281808 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a pipe < 1224281810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah, indeed < 1224281811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1224281812 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a pipe bomb < 1224281818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have a fork bomb < 1224281819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a pipe < 1224281824 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: the standard obfuscated bash fork bomb has a pipe in < 1224281825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the standard bash forkbomb have a pipe < 1224281828 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a joke, AnMaster < 1224281833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I suspect Slereah was trying to make a pun < 1224281841 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bad one apparently :( < 1224281948 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: $0|$0 could be a fork bomb because it starts itself twice < 1224282001 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what all that means, Deewiant < 1224282023 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1224282039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'm loading up a VM to test it in < 1224282041 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I suck pretty hard in CS < 1224282051 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I tried it, but I'm not sure what happened < 1224282062 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: what did top say? < 1224282065 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spawned a few shells but didn't bomb < 1224282080 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seemed to have two shells running on top of each other though: every keypress was echoed twice < 1224282085 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1224282121 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION waits for Knoppix to detect all the fake devices on the VM
< 1224282197 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: So did you run it in a file or just on the command line? < 1224282201 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: file < 1224282219 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :command line, then file, to be exact < 1224282226 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't notice anything happening from the cmdline though < 1224282258 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simple $0 on command line here is just "-bash: -bash: command not found" thanks to that '-' in the name. < 1224282289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1224282296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I got input server working < 1224282297 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would think it might work in a file, though. < 1224282304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one step towards ATHR < 1224282346 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I just tried in a VM < 1224282350 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and every window in the VM disappeared < 1224282354 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1224282370 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from the KDE toolbar along the bottom < 1224282376 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the desktop background went too... < 1224282383 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm going to bed. Good luck hosing your systems! < 1224282397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION exits the VM
< 1224282400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to have crashed < 1224282405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so quite possibly a fork-bomb then < 1224282668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ul (^bf ,[.,]!Hi optbot!)S < 1224282668 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh... yeah I forgot to get rid of the newline. < 1224282669 0 :thutubot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf ,[.,]!Hi optbot! < 1224282669 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi optbot! < 1224282669 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thutubot: i guess mapcar is more descriptive < 1224282669 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: cool I think your notation makes sense then < 1224282669 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: my hypothesis has to do < 1224282670 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Ping! < 1224282670 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: i've already been using a manually downloaded eclipse so far, effectively, that it has became like ie was < 1224282670 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: it can type higher order functions and all < 1224282671 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: objc and smaltalk does... in a filter... fnord < 1224282671 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Is that valid Malbolge, Gregor? < 1224282672 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: ams isn't in gnu anymore? :) renaming whenever there's a conflict? < 1224282672 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Wheee. . . < 1224282724 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: you can say that again < 1224282724 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: 3 ihope: ps < 1224282764 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, according to a (standard outdoor-type, because we only have one fridge/freezer-specific one) thermometer our freezer is -38 degrees Celsius. I find that hard to believe. < 1224282772 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so do I < 1224283226 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should've just told that thing to use up to 3-grams. < 1224283397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://paste.lisp.org/display/68711 < 1224283399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, fizzie ^ < 1224283403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that may be interesting < 1224283409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is generated on a template < 1224283436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is how simple making a server is in erlang < 1224283437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1224283443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be shortened down a lot too < 1224283444 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's even simpler in INTERCACL < 1224283446 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*INTERCAL < 1224283448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, CLC-INTERCAL < 1224283450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, really? < 1224283456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Claudio has a 2-line pastebin server somewhere < 1224283462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the client isn't much more complicated < 1224283469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, huh? < 1224283469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not pastebin, global clipboard < 1224283485 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, everything's client-driven in CLC-INTERCAL < 1224283488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, two long messy lines? < 1224283489 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you steal data from the server < 1224283493 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and two short simple lines < 1224283499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and how long is the client? < 1224283505 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all a server has to do is go into an infiniloop < 1224283506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, since the same module includes the client < 1224283510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for the client, probably 4 or 5 < 1224283516 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me try to find the source < 1224283518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read_next_char() -> < 1224283518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : gen_server:call({global, ?SERVER}, read_char, infinity). < 1224283522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read_next_integer() -> < 1224283522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : gen_server:call({global, ?SERVER}, read_integer, infinity). < 1224283525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is all the client is < 1224283525 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd try looking but my browser is again swapped out. :p < 1224283526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really < 1224283553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? indicates "treat this as a macro" < 1224283560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :means erlang macros very clean < 1224283563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, here's the server: < 1224283565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you have to mark them < 1224283566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : DO IGNORE @1 < 1224283566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1) PLEASE COME FROM (1) < 1224283571 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1224283572 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple enough to paste into a channel < 1224283603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well... strip all comment -spec and -type from my paste and you get the bare minimal one < 1224283659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, still this was easy, I just selected gen_server template in erlange-mode in emacs. then filled it in < 1224283667 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1224283683 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'night < 1224283684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, gen_server is a design pattern < 1224283692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main one for erlang I guess < 1224283692 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Them conversations, they're so awkward. They're all like "uh so according to this we should be talking about where we get our news" "oh uh well I just watch TV" "so.. what do we do now for the next nine-and-a-half minutes?" < 1224283700 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ne regrettons pas le passé, ne nous préoccupons pas de l'avenir : le sage vit dans le présent." < 1224283706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, all the servery details is handled elsewhere, all you write is a callback module < 1224283713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ some API functions for clients < 1224283739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, huh? < 1224283745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what is the data source? < 1224283795 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1224283800 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the Fisher English Corpus (part 2) from LDC. "Conversational telephone speech". I don't know (read: haven't bothered to check) the details on how they collected that stuff. < 1224283813 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just feeding fungot the transcriptions. < 1224283814 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: where c iz a character for schwa. nothing < 1224283863 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ten-minute conversations between parties "A" and "B"; they have been anonymized. < 1224283905 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it works so that there's just two people who don't know each other, and they give them a topic to talk about and then they have to spend at least ten minutes having a conversation. < 1224283916 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-39-168.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224283941 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to thank the US Department of Defence (and DARPA) for sponsoring the data collection so that I can put it to good use like this. < 1224283950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1224283977 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Assuming my model-building task ever finishes.) < 1224283990 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a testsuite for your model-builder, obviously < 1224284111 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, our department paid for that stuff, I'm sure they wouldn't like it to go to waste. < 1224284141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, fizzie: http://paste.lisp.org/display/68711#1 < 1224284144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that may be less crufty < 1224284151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I rewrote comments to edoc style < 1224284160 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1224284161 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, relatively short < 1224284164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which also can be used to auto-generate html docs from < 1224284166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but CLC-INTERCAL still wins < 1224284166 0 :Fourchan_Partyva!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-39-168.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224284170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Documentation overload, man. Let the code speak for itself. < 1224284176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Fourchan_Partyva < 1224284180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: == Slereah < 1224284184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I guessed < 1224284185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, as I said it was generated from a template < 1224284188 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the hostname < 1224284192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, in erlang-mode < 1224284193 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange nick, though < 1224284263 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i guess our topic is the movies whether you like to go to the theater or rent them and stay home" -- hah, I wouldn't know how to talk 10 minutes about that. < 1224284277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, as for clc... It is just harder to use still :P < 1224284284 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, obviously < 1224284291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I generally don't watch films at all < 1224284296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the answer is "neither" < 1224284303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, same < 1224284316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have nowhere near the attention span neccessary for a film < 1224284317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1224284328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, as if we didn't know tht < 1224284329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that* < 1224284349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not even long enough for Star Trek? < 1224284366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :star trek is pretty boring most of the time < 1224284373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my opinion < 1224284377 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They all start with "it's my first time doing this" or "have you done this before?" or things like that; it's like reading a transcription of a telephone dating thing. < 1224284383 0 :Fourchan_Partyva!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm watching Star Trek right now < 1224284385 0 :Fourchan_Partyva!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That episode is ridiculous < 1224284389 0 :Fourchan_Partyva!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Slereah_ < 1224284398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how strange still < 1224284405 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Rascals" < 1224284407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Is this freely available? < 1224284410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_, what generation? < 1224284415 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's the plot : a bunch of characters are turned into children! < 1224284416 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TNG < 1224284422 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: No, it's $7000 for non-LDC members. :p < 1224284428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What the fuck. :D < 1224284431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, LDC? < 1224284436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could just torrent it, I'm sure it's somewhere. < 1224284449 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linguistic Data Consortium, University of Pennsylvania. < 1224284452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I will feel absolutely no guilt for downloading the extremely precious HUGE-ASS ARCHIVE OF AWKWARD CONVERSATIONS < 1224284453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also why would anyone pay for that stuff... < 1224284455 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They collect all kinds of speech corpuses. < 1224284458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering how bad it sounds < 1224284470 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's quite a challenging test for a speech recognizer. < 1224284492 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not really recreational reading it's for. < 1224284498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, they fail even on easy stuff... there is no point in trying it on that hard stuff < 1224284521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the OS X one is hilariously bad < 1224284533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is actually one of the better ones I seen so far < 1224284536 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is the default Windows one < 1224284546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well the windows one is worse < 1224284547 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to have fun playing Chinese Whispers with it < 1224284556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Chinese Whispers"? < 1224284603 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For clean speech, I don't think they've got a word error rate percentage of more than a low-single-digit number. And besides, the hard stuff is what's interesting. < 1224284624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm... < 1224284627 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Failure" is what you want out of it. < 1224284630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, still what is that game? < 1224284642 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"They" here refer to state-of-the-art stuff. I don't know anything about the bundled ones. < 1224284645 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: basically, it requires a very large number of people < 1224284651 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first one thinks up a phrase and whispers it to the second < 1224284656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second whispers it to the third < 1224284657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1224284661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and then? < 1224284662 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the last person says it out loud < 1224284665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and at the end, you compare the two phrases < 1224284668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224284671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everyone laughs at how different it is from the original < 1224284672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and see how much got lost in the bad whispering < 1224284685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it will actually be much different? < 1224284690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have enough people, yes < 1224284699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224284700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't work with only a few as they remember what it's supposed to be < 1224284715 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but speech recognisers never catch on, so you can play two-player with them < 1224284718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well if they don't know what it is supposed to be? < 1224284724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's the whole point < 1224284731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't know what it's supposed to be, but you hear something < 1224284734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" it doesn't work with only a few as they remember what it's supposed to be" < 1224284736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, < 1224284736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you try and pass on what you think you heard < 1224284736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ < 1224284737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that < 1224284741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was what I meant < 1224284744 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I mean, if you try to go round more than once < 1224284749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah ok < 1224284752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then people remember what they heard the firs time < 1224284755 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's called "rikkinäinen puhelin" (lit: broken phone) in Finland. < 1224284770 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most successful games are played with about 100 people or so, and yes I have been in a Chinese Whispers game that big < 1224284771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have never been much for such games < 1224284790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I was young[er] i used to pass on a completely different phrase. < 1224284797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that at the end everyone asks who the hell messed it up :D < 1224284797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hehe < 1224284810 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that's generally considered cheating < 1224284817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1224284817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1224284818 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in any set of 100 you get a few like that < 1224284822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is impossible to prove who did it < 1224284826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more or less < 1224284827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1224284829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite EASY to < 1224284835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1224284841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not the way we played it, people often asked 2 people back rather than 1 if they suspected the previous person was cheating < 1224284844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a second opinion < 1224284853 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that that's legal either, but you can't really stop it < 1224284859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same way "psychics" can communicate with people back from the dead < 1224284864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just look around < 1224284875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the people who did it will be easy to spot after you do it enough times, i imagine < 1224284889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1224284906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what do "psychics" have to do with it? < 1224284911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are just making it up after all < 1224284934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, they're not < 1224284943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cold_reading < 1224284946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hot_reading < 1224284961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you seriously don't believe in such para-normal stuff? < 1224284961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even the ones who truly believe they are doing it do that < 1224284964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just dont' realise it < 1224284971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: please click links before saying anything < 1224284979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just made yourself look like a fool... < 1224284983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I did click link after < 1224284992 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I said it before < 1224285000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I have bad lag spikes atm < 1224285043 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lagom lag < 1224285130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, no too much < 1224285132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not lagom < 1224285479 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope the C++ code doesn't have any same sort of bugs that cause fungot to occasionally go to an infinite loop when generating babble. It's computated that thing for a suspiciously long time, compared to how fast it did the first stages. < 1224285479 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://pastebin.ca/ 397959 mathematica is a kickass piece of software < 1224285531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, attach gdb to it, add some trace points? < 1224285541 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh.. what's that paste? < 1224285543 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathematica is okay < 1224285553 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But sometimes, it's hard to handle < 1224285556 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I rather like Mathematica, even though the language is a bit funky. < 1224285568 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I've compiled that thing with debugging symbols, and my gdb-fu is weak. < 1224285570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, H and lots of question marks < 1224285577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1224285577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :H??????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? < 1224285577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1224285577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :??????????????????????????????????e????????????????????????????????????????????? < 1224285577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1224285577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :???????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? < 1224285585 0 :Corun!n=Corun@94-192-102-5.zone6.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1224285585 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but what's the point of it. < 1224285586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the # are from line numbers < 1224285589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1224285595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, no clue, check origin? < 1224285599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you got the logs < 1224285612 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks somewhat hello-worldy. < 1224285632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well where did it get that quote from? < 1224285644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the pastebin I mean < 1224285657 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Checking, but it seems sort-of cheating not to try figuring it out. < 1224285715 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i vaguely recall that < 1224285732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh? < 1224285752 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it the dupdog hello world maybe < 1224285757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dupdog? < 1224285761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION google
< 1224285776 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dupdog, yes. < 1224285786 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The program is in the esolang wiki. < 1224285876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1224285879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks odd < 1224285887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and doesn't fit the desc for the language above < 1224285920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1224285921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1224285966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1224285973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should not be tc as far as I can tell? < 1224285984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since how do you do even a trivial infinite loop? < 1224285995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1224285999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duplicate source < 1224286000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1224286060 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think we ever found out < 1224286066 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1224286131 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Must sleep now, hopefully fungot'll be ready to speak all "um uh [noise] umm" telephone conversation by tomorrow.) < 1224286132 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i'm religious!! i wanta tell you you're a great comedian sgeo < 1224286181 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes I have a feeling fungot's a few bits short of a full byte. < 1224286181 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: in scheme it is executed < 1224286415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well < 1224286415 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1224286417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1224286420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fizzie: i'm religious!! i wanta tell you you're a great comedian sgeo < 1224286420 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because they can feel they're on the left margin. < 1224286421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heheh < 1224286454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, what a coincidence you joined just after < 1224286475 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1224286547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun fact - the eso pastebin is about to be up < 1224286550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :putting the final touches on it < 1224286570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night too < 1224286897 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1224288256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAY < 1224288269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ESO pastebin _finally_ launches, after me working on it for all of 10 minutes. :-P < 1224288278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://paste.eso-std.org/. Yes, it's spartan, yes, that's intentional. have fun. < 1224288309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, pastes 1 and 2 (http://paste.eso-std.org/1 and http://paste.eso-std.org/2) are taken from me testing. < 1224288314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you can't nab that piece of history. < 1224289286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... and now there's a python api (available on the page) < 1224290817 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, it's not written in Brainfuck? :( < 1224290896 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1224291437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: No, i'm not that crazy. < 1224291964 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1224293655 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1224294301 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cafepress.com/bizarregeek.318713308 < 1224294798 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wants one. :p
< 1224294993 0 :ab5tract!n=ab5tract@pool-71-246-5-13.phlapa.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1224295363 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: "There is no reason for anyone but Gregor to wear this." < 1224295430 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless I want people to choose Gregor's hats? < 1224295431 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1224295438 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'struth. < 1224297064 0 :Jiminy_Cricket!n=bob@adsl-230-201-21.btr.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1224297135 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuyqwe@bas2-toronto47-1242397827.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1224297279 0 :omniscient_idiot!n=boa@adsl-230-201-21.btr.bellsouth.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1224297370 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1224298704 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1224299228 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | 6, because the Ex normally means they had to add an extra parameter at some point < 1224307045 0 :cherez!n=cherez@r02snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1224307050 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1224307353 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1224308088 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1224312264 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"So, how much do you love noodles?" < 1224316799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1224316800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1224319811 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1224320557 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9438299 4-grams, but it hasn't finished doing whatever it's doing after that. I don't think it should be doing much else than writing things to file, though. < 1224320828 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | chr() arg not in range(256) < 1224321429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, check disk space.. < 1224323289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm? < 1224323442 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1224324642 0 :Mony!n=AssHole@AToulouse-258-1-104-60.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224324691 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plop < 1224325788 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, was building furniture. < 1224325798 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe "assembling" is the correct word. < 1224325842 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has written just 40 megs of model.bin. < 1224325882 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There it runs: < 1224325884 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fis 11679 1.7 67.2 2367952 1385348 pts/10 D+ Oct17 13:30 ./buildlm < 1224325897 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite a large process. < 1224325934 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking the whole N-gram tree is too big to fit in memory and it's so udderly slow thanks to all the swapping. < 1224325948 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I should just interrupt it; I'd like to get my web browser back. < 1224327421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Or maybe "assembling" is the correct word. <-- IKEA? < 1224327466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, do you use lots of std:: stuff in that C++ app? < 1224327474 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, to both of those questions. < 1224327479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally they take a bit more memory < 1224327483 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. < 1224327497 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was just convenient. < 1224327504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the time not an issue... but it seems to be here < 1224327517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would it be impossible to process it in chunks? < 1224327537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and try to keep locality of reference to prevent swapping in/out all the time < 1224327548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead working on the data already in memory < 1224327583 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's a big tree, 17581526 nodes. The per-node data structures are not very small either, even though they could be. < 1224327632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, any memory leaks? < 1224327656 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there are, and in any case it just builds the tree and writes it to file; it's not deleting any nodes ever. < 1224327670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1224327683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well making the data more compact could help indeed < 1224327703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making sure to organise structs to prevent holes and padding < 1224327718 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I think I could cut memory consumption to a half without too much trouble. < 1224327748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the tool pahole, made for the linux kernel originally, can help with that, it reads debug info and report badly organised structs) < 1224327830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I have used it on cfunge to reduce the memory usage) < 1224327931 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's even some data duplication here, I have a std::map for children and a std::map for the word-counts, and for every non-leaf node both mappings have the same set of keys. The program is quite the memory hog, but really, I was more concerned in getting it to work at all than making it efficient. < 1224327948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1224328040 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must go to a birthday thing now. With any luck it has finished before I get back, and then I can postpone fixing that C++ code until the next time I have a large amount of data to feed to fungot. < 1224328041 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: premature optimization etc. for now, we're on cleaner topics today. < 1224328056 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, that's even related. < 1224328056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1224328059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1224328074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, idea: ALICE bot in befunge < 1224328076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1224328166 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently fungot's babbling is a bit cheating-like; all the hard work is done by this supporting code, and it doesn't even keep any sort of data structures in funge-space, simply uses FILE's seek/read operations to navigate the resulting tree. < 1224328167 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: is arizona fnord herbal tonic any good?) < 1224328212 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Simply based on the name, I don't think I'd buy it. The "fnord" there is suspicious. < 1224328213 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the multiple values to bind, what parameters your procedures accept, and what some of the old lisp os's ( can't remember the last time i checked < 1224328504 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The babble generation is pretty much: len = 0; while (1) { node = root; for (i = 1; i <= len; i++) { if (!node.children[text[len-i]]) { word = random_with_weights(node.words); break; } node = node.children[text[len-i]]; } text.append(word); len++; if (node.canstop && random_stoppage()) break; } < 1224328509 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very easy to do in Befunge. < 1224328511 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the bus is going. -> < 1224333651 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-39-168.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224333896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1224333898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read away messages < 1224334098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn i want this http://www.cafepress.com/bizarregeek.11389675 and this http://www.cafepress.com/bizarregeek.255291006 < 1224334102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except the former's colour scheme puts me off < 1224336163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 too < 1224336243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's not actually here < 1224336244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1224336384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm one of the products in "Other items by Bizarre Geek:" there says "Original design by RodgerTheGreat, used with permission" < 1224336392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and? < 1224336394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR runs that store. < 1224336398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah < 1224336403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that was what I was about to ask < 1224336449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going to make a book of pages and pages of cellular automata < 1224336452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will title it the null string < 1224336527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate how folklore.org has not been updated since like 2004 and they still haven't added any other collections apart from the original macintosh one < 1224336533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:( < 1224337706 0 :jix!n=jix@lbck-4dbaeae0.pool.einsundeins.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1224337726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the agme? < 1224337730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*game < 1224337732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I just los it . < 1224337732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1224337744 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck < 1224337749 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I did too :( < 1224337840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.freesoftwaremagazine.com/columns/ten_easy_ways_attract_women_your_free_software_project <- Jesus christ, this is a load of sexual bullshit just pandering to a bunch of idiotic stereotypes. < 1224337844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1224337845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sexist bullshit < 1224337848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1224337855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol freudian slip because all men think about is sex lol < 1224337931 0 :ENKI-][!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1224338007 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird : That's because stereotypes are funny < 1224338025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not very useful for serious advice though... < 1224338044 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A top ten list is never serious, ehird < 1224338065 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be "top ten most efficient sorting algorithm" and be a fucking joke < 1224338067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's not much making it a top ten beyond the sections being labeled with numbers. < 1224338269 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nargh... because of you i lost the game.... < 1224338286 0 :ENKI-][!n=weechat@c-71-234-190-248.hsd1.ct.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1224338300 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1224338577 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Divers5/1220910895470.jpg < 1224339158 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@i-60.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1224339168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so just put a regex ignore on that stuff if you care about it. I certainly don't. < 1224339398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's not easy. < 1224339404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :U l0st the g a e m < 1224339413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I can't read that language. What one is it? < 1224339416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aol? < 1224339433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm seems google translate can't handle AOL < 1224339434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With your sarcastic acknowledgement of it you obviously were able to extract the basic meaning and thus I still succeeded. < 1224339454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Also, I'd advise you stop trying to be funny because you're really not very good at it. (Worse than I.)) < 1224339468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I can see French and guess it is French even though I can't understand it < 1224339484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That was very easily decodable to "U lost the gaem" then "You lose the game". < 1224339499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, "Y o u l o s t t h e g a e m" would work too. < 1224339518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you could probably make a bayesian filter < 1224339526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1224340141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Bayesian filters aren't very good at anything that isn't spam filtering. < 1224340205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1224340211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well it is kind of spam ;P < 1224340224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really. < 1224340231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's junk, you might think, but it's not spam. < 1224340253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either way, blocking "Y ou los t t he ga m e" without false positives is... difficult. < 1224340253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1224340267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure, and also I don't care about that silly game. < 1224340295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, or ais523: any of you there? < 1224340296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : so just put a regex ignore on that stuff if you care about it. I certainly don't. < 1224340303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Please learn to use /who. < 1224340311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 is set as away when he is not there, rather appropriately. < 1224340316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well fizzie then? < 1224340325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Check idle time. < 1224340333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie has been idle for 3 hours, so you could nickping him and see. < 1224340358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sometimes I idle a lot and I'm just doing other stuff but still notice a highlight on irc < 1224340367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1224340376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The point is... < 1224340383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If fizzie was idle for 20 hours, he's away. < 1224340386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If he's idle for 2 minutes, he's here. < 1224340388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If it's 3 hours, ask. < 1224340391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or just back. < 1224340392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1224340418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Not the point, you should still check before just uselessly nickpinging someone who possibly isn't even online to see it. < 1224340421 0 :oklocod!n=nnscript@h189049.gprs.dnafinland.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1224340446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and this bothers you so? < 1224340451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1224340472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, because about half your lines is "ais523 there?" or "why isn't ais523 here". < 1224340476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/is/are/ < 1224340632 0 :M0ny!n=AssHole@AToulouse-258-1-104-60.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224340680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is the total set for that half? < 1224340701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What? < 1224340716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Yes, because about half your lines is" < 1224340721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean something else I assume? < 1224340730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : s/is/are/ < 1224340733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One. Message. After. < 1224340741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not that.... < 1224340754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Yes, because about half your lines are "ais523 there?" or "why isn't ais523 here"." < 1224340756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very simple. < 1224340783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ grep -c '' /home/arvid/.xchat2/xchatlogs/FreeNode-#esoteric.log < 1224340783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2904 < 1224340784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ grep '' /home/arvid/.xchat2/xchatlogs/FreeNode-#esoteric.log | grep ais523 | grep there | wc -l < 1224340784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 < 1224340803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha ha ha ohh you take things literally! < 1224340805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and most of those are unrelated < 1224340807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okt 17 19:19:35 ais523, I added the security considerations there < 1224340809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So damn amusing. < 1224340809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example < 1224340821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I decided to do that yes < 1224340827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the statistics were incorrect < 1224340828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When will you get it in to your head that English is more than flat text? < 1224340846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the day you start being funny? < 1224340854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk, busy < 1224340856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not trying to be funny. < 1224340874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And fuck this shit, I don't have time for a place that's just been consistently annoying ever since you showed up. < 1224340875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1224341311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well he will be 1) log reading 2) be back soon < 1224341315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1224341736 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1224342428 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | ->++>+++>+>+>+++>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+>+>++>+++>++>>+++>+>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+>+>>+++>>+++>>>>>+++>+>>>>>>>>>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>++>+++>>>+>+>++>+++>+>+>>+++>>>>>>>+>+>>>+>+>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>++>+++>++>>+>+>++>+++>+>+>>+++>>>>>+++>+>>>>>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>+++>+>>+++>>+++>>++[[>>+[>]++>++[<]<-]>+[>]<+<+++[<]<+]>+[>]++++>++[[<++++++++++++++++>-]< < 1224343028 0 :GiveMeMony!n=AssHole@AToulouse-258-1-125-31.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224343038 0 :GiveMeMony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hum..... < 1224343738 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.231 JOIN :#esoteric < 1224343748 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1224343804 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"CommandQ" < 1224343822 0 :GiveMeMony!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mony < 1224344132 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1224344423 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-39-168.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224344427 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1224344783 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-39-168.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224344783 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1224344998 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1224345107 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r01jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1224345881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf ->++>+++>+>+>+++>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+>+>++>+++>++>>+++>+>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+>+>>+++>>+++>>>>>+++>+>>>>>>>>>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>++>+++>>>+>+>++>+++>+>+>>+++>>>>>>>+>+>>>+>+>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>++>+++>++>>+>+>++>+++>+>+>>+++>>>>>+++>+>>>>>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>+++>+>>+++>>+++>>++[[>>+[>]++>++[<]<-]>+[>]<+<+++[<]<+]>+[>]++++>++[[<++++++++++++++++>-]< < 1224345881 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mismatched []. < 1224345887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1224345897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the thing in topic is cut off? < 1224346134 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1224346147 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf ->++>+++>+>+>+++>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+>+>++>+++>++>>+++>+>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+>+>>+++>>+++>>>>>+++>+>>>>>>>>>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>++>+++>>>+>+>++>+++>+>+>>+++>>>>>>>+>+>>>+>+>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>++>+++>++>>+>+>++>+++>+>+>>+++>>>>>+++>+>>>>>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>+++>+>>+++>>+++>>++[[>>+[>]++>++[<]<-]>+[>]<+<+++[<]<+]>+[>]++++>++[[<++++++++++++++++>-]< < 1224346148 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mismatched []. < 1224346153 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1224346255 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf ->++>+++>+>+>+++>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+>+>++>+++>++>>+++>+>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>+>+>>+++>>+++>>>>>+++>+>>>>>>>>>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>++>+++>>>+>+>++>+++>+>+>>+++>>>>>>>+>+>>>+>+>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>++>+++>++>>+>+>++>+++>+>+>>+++>>>>>+++>+>>>>>++>+++>+++>+>>+++>>>+++>+>+++>+>>+++>>+++>>++[[>>+[>]++>++[<]<-]>+[>]<+<+++[<]<+]>+[>]++++>++ < 1224346262 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...out of time! < 1224346275 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no printing commands < 1224346325 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show ul < 1224346325 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>,[>,]<[<]>[<+4[>-8<-]+>-[-7[-2[<+3[>-4<-]+>[<+4[>-5<-]+>[-11[-3[[-]<2[>[-]>+<2-]>>[<2+>>-]+<[->-<3[[>+<-]<]>>[>]]>[->[>]<[[>+<-]<]<2[[>+<-]<]<[[>+<-]<]>>[>]>[[[>]>+<2[<]>-]<2[[>+<-]<]>>[>]>[>]>[<2[<]<[<]<+>>[>]>[>]>-]<2[<]>]>>[[<+>-]>]<2[<]]]<[->>[>]<[[>>+<2-]<]<2[[>+<-]<]>+>[>]+5[>+8<-]+2>-[<+[<]>+[>]<-]]>]<[->>[[<2+>>-]>]<3[[>+<-]<]]>]<[-<[[<]>.[-]>[[<+>-]>]>>[[<+>-]>]<2[<]<2]>>>[[<+>-]>]<2[<]<]>]<[->>[>]<[[>+<-]<]<2[>>>>[>] < 1224346326 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +[] < 1224346333 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...out of time! < 1224346337 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Onoes! < 1224346350 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++. < 1224346351 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1224346375 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +++++++. < 1224346381 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw :( < 1224346431 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+c censors that < 1224346455 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+c? < 1224346460 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :channel option < 1224346470 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't it for colors? < 1224346483 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything annoying :D < 1224346512 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean there wouldn't be much point censoring colors for being annoying if you didn't censor beeps < 1224346589 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it censor anything from 000 to 031? < 1224346849 0 :pikhq_!n=pikhq@131.151.190.104 JOIN :#esoteric < 1224346862 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 001 at least < 1224346864 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1224346869 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's needed for actions < 1224346886 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show < 1224346886 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo reverb rev bf rot13 hi rev2 fib wc ul ctcp < 1224346896 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ctcp ACTION waves < 1224346896 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION waves
< 1224346902 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show ctcp < 1224346902 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+.,[.,]+. < 1224346941 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :000 may not be legal in irc at all, not sure < 1224346974 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh let me see < 1224346974 0 :Corun!n=Corun@94-192-102-5.zone6.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1224346984 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf ++[.+] < 1224346984 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : .. !"#$%&'()*+,-./0123456789:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMNOPQRSTUVWXYZ[\]^_`abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz{|}~€�‚ƒ„…†‡ˆ‰Š‹Œ�Ž��‘’“”•–—˜™š›œ�žŸ ¡¢£¤¥¦§¨©ª«¬­®¯°±²³´µ¶·¸¹º»¼½¾¿ÀÁÂÃÄÅÆÇÈÉÊËÌÍÎÏÐ ... < 1224347013 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the J and M fungot censors itself < 1224347013 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but it's not clear to me where we are permitted to apply a given rule that would give you 0(1) access. < 1224347091 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++>++[.<.>+] < 1224347092 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :    .   .               ! " # $ % & ' ( ) * + , - . / 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 : ; < = > ? @ A B C D E F G H I J K L M N O P Q R S T U V W X Y Z [ \ ] ^ _ ` a b c d e f g h i ... < 1224347157 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++>++[.<.>+] < 1224347158 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!!!!!! !.!!!.!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! !!!"!#!$!%!&!'!(!)!*!+!,!-!.!/!0!1!2!3!4!5!6!7!8!9!:!;!!?!@!A!B!C!D!E!F!G!H!I!J!K!L!M!N!O!P!Q!R!S!T!U!V!W!X!Y!Z![!\!]!^!_!`!a!b!c!d!e!f!g!h!i ... < 1224347264 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm interesting one ! is missing between ^B and ^H < 1224347275 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++>++[.<.+>+] < 1224347275 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!"#$%&' (.)*+.,-./0123456789:;<=> ?!@"A#B$C%D&E'F(G)H*I+J,K-L.M/N0O1P2Q3R4S5T6U7V8W9X:Y;Z<[=\>]?^@_A`BaCbDcEdFeGfHgIhJiKjLkMlNmOnPoQpRqSrTsUtVuWvXwYxZy[z\{]|^}_~`a€b�c‚dƒe„f…g†h‡i ... < 1224347283 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1224347301 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++>++[.<.+>+] < 1224347302 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :134567 8.9:;.<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLMN O!P"Q#R$S%T&U'V(W)X*Y+Z,[-\.]/^0_1`2a3b4c5d6e7f8g9h:i;jm?n@oApBqCrDsEtFuGvHwIxJyKzL{M|N}O~PQ€R�S‚TƒU„V…W†X‡YˆZ‰[Š\‹]Œ^�_Ž`�a�b‘c’d“e”f•g–h—i ... < 1224347317 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1224347376 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly some control codes actually work, and swallow part of the other input < 1224347446 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++>++[.<.+>+] < 1224347446 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :023456 7.89:.;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKLM N!O"P#Q$R%S&T'U(V)W*X+Y,Z-[.\/]0^1_2`3a4b5c6d7e8f9g:h;il?m@nAoBpCqDrEsFtGuHvIwJxKyLzM{N|O}P~QR€S�T‚UƒV„W…X†Y‡Zˆ[‰\Š]‹^Œ_�`Ža�b�c‘d’e“f”g•h–i ... < 1224347460 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, there _are_ colors < 1224347475 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++>++[.<.+>+] < 1224347475 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/12345 6.789.:;<=>?@ABCDEFGHIJKL M!N"O#P$Q%R&S'T(U)V*W+X,Y-Z.[/\0]1^2_3`4a5b6c7d8e9f:g;hk?l@mAnBoCpDqErFsGtHuIvJwKxLyMzN{O|P}Q~RS€T�U‚VƒW„X…Y†Z‡[ˆ\‰]Š^‹_Œ`�aŽb�c�d‘e’f“g”h•i ... < 1224347530 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1224347634 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +++.,[.]!67testing < 1224347634 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666666 ... < 1224347645 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +++.,[.,]!67testing < 1224347645 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :testing < 1224347670 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf ++++.,[.,]!67testing < 1224347670 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :67testing < 1224347701 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the one < 1224347949 0 :Corun_!n=Corun@94-192-102-5.zone6.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1224348470 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1224349463 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1224349471 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oko < 1224349490 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oklopol < 1224349495 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokoko < 1224349508 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats oklopol ----###
< 1224349538 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oeoeoeoeoeo < 1224349547 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ayiayiayi < 1224349560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul < 1224349563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1224349567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul what? < 1224349571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf help < 1224349574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^help < 1224349574 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text] < 1224349577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^show < 1224349578 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo reverb rev bf rot13 hi rev2 fib wc ul ctcp < 1224349586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what should ^ul do? < 1224349607 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an underload interpreter < 1224349619 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (AB)S < 1224349622 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AB < 1224349631 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (ABABABABABAB)S < 1224349638 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...out of time! < 1224349647 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still the brainfuck version i see < 1224349651 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-39-168.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224349660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224350861 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-39-168.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224350861 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1224350899 0 :SimonRC_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :SimonC < 1224350908 0 :SimonC!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :SimonRC < 1224350930 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-39-168.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224350931 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1224351428 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-39-168.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224351428 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1224351763 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my silly shared web hosting doesn't let me use a www.www. subdomain because of their rubbish control panel :( < 1224351796 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1224351831 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D-8 < 1224351845 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: I had to sort of trick cpanel to convince it I wanted www.www. < 1224351856 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-39-168.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224352011 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why do you want that? < 1224352078 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I could probably create w.w.w.w.w.w.domain >_> < 1224352201 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: http://www.www.extra-www.org/ < 1224352217 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: Is their stupid control panel cPanel? < 1224352231 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's "dream"host < 1224352246 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1224352359 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any attempt to create hosting for a domain or subdomain starting with "www" is met with "we set this sub-domain up automatically for you." :( < 1224352406 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/domain or // < 1224352480 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should email them. < 1224352501 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"How DARE you refuse my www's! What are you, some WORLD-WIDE-WEB HATER?!" < 1224352679 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1224352719 0 :ehird!n=ehird@eso-std.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1224352727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tim berners-lee replied to my email :o < 1224352802 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: about what,; saying what? < 1224352821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: dates in URI structure < 1224352834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as a question about "Cool URIs don't change") < 1224352857 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1224352862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was asking about "continuous" pages, in that e.g. a news page about foos still being updated today would be odd to be placed at /1998/foos-news < 1224352872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he basically replied saying that it's okay :-P < 1224352901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing interesting, then. < 1224352918 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How about URI's like www.www.my-site.com/... < 1224352921 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are those OK? :P < 1224352927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Yes. < 1224352931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, here is a direct quote: < 1224352933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal, no-www! < 1224352947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... why did you nickping Asztal for no reason. < 1224352955 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no-no-www! < 1224352963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.www.extra-www.org bitches < 1224352980 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Asztal was trying to create a www.www. domain, but the server's control panel barfed :P < 1224352980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I disagree < 1224352983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: [[I would like to reccomend adding an extra "www." to the start of all your URIs. This should eliminate any date problems with your display of web patriotism. -Tim]] < 1224352985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ... why did you nickping Asztal for no reason. < 1224352987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a good reason < 1224352991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read log < 1224353001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://www.www.extra-www.org/. < 1224353006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and I disagree < 1224353012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't "disagree" with a joke. < 1224353013 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WELL THEN YOU HATE THE WEB. < 1224353026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, of course I know it is a joke < 1224353033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("Disagreeing" with a joke is commonly referred to as "having no sense of humour", which I'd say observation has proved to be quite true.) < 1224353052 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That quote makes no sense :P < 1224353063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: WELL IT'S WHAT HE SAID < 1224353073 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Oh I believe you! < 1224353082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think it is a good joke. I don't think anyone except the actual extra-www website should use it < 1224353094 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Having read Weaving the Web, I would expect that he considers today's web to be Web 0.2, at best.) < 1224353099 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: But only due to my strong conviction for self-delusion do I believe you. < 1224353103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: the semweb stuff is neato. < 1224353109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC, "he"? < 1224353110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who? < 1224353115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: TimBL < 1224353117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224353136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- to reply to an earlier comment, AnMaster: Yes, because in your world humour is confined into rigid boxes marked "humour" and should not intefere with anything outside of the box. < 1224353154 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Howwever, with all thi user-generated content, we are getting there, despite being rather short on the ""semantic" side.) < 1224353156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, which earlier comment < 1224353156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1224353160 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Humour sucks, humor is much funnier. < 1224353166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird, I think it is a good joke. I don't think anyone except the actual extra-www website should use it < 1224353166 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yuk, hate editing over a crap connection < 1224353171 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :la. < 1224353178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is nothing wrong with a website letting you go to www.www.foo.com, as that is amusing in the vain of www.www.extra-www.org. < 1224353191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, basically I use no-www myself :P < 1224353192 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: no, homor sucks, and homours is funnoier < 1224353194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and another thing < 1224353201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is nothing harmed by humour spilling slightly over from the box called humour into something else. < 1224353208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If things were like that, then this'd be a pretty darn boring place, on account of not existing. < 1224353217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to the success of no-www you should create www.www.www.extra-extra-www.org < 1224353219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1224353229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how that actually adds to the humour. < 1224353237 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION fails at typing
< 1224353242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you lack humor then indeed. < 1224353245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: I love how you use obscure TLDs for the links < 1224353261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or rather: Humor is highly subjective < 1224353264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, I just have standards. (One element is that it has to be funny.) < 1224353279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, humor is always highly subjective < 1224353290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure people share parts < 1224353316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can't assume any set of "this this is humor" is better than any other < 1224353318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We'll have none of that smutty talk in #esoteric, please. < 1224353325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah. < 1224353349 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever you do, don't spill hummus < 1224353369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: That's going to be hard to avoid when sharing parts. < 1224353382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but you bet they'll have a cover story. "I was just being modular!" < 1224353413 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: we should demand a www top level domain < 1224353424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, heh. < 1224353430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: brilliant < 1224353437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :www.www.www.www.www < 1224353439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION agrees with ehird there
< 1224353450 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ww as a TLD? < 1224353451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the www.www.www. subdomain of the www.www domain) < 1224353458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, but ICANN will ask a lot of money sadly :/ < 1224353461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's extra-www compliant, ON BOTH SIDES. < 1224353467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, :) < 1224353474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BOTH SIDES < 1224353492 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn capitalists < 1224353499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yeah... < 1224353502 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, domains are backwards anyway < 1224353514 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: you silly UK people < 1224353533 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should hav been big-endian, like oterh types of paths < 1224353564 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly europeans and americans should use big-endian paths, while japanese should use little-endian ones < 1224353571 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and email addresses should be big-endian too < 1224353579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, Americans should use mixed-endian < 1224353585 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: huh? why? < 1224353597 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: linguistics < 1224353608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, just look at the American date format. < 1224353615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no no < 1224353620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :native americans should use little-endian < 1224353624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://instantrimshot.com/ < 1224353625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it should be. google.www.com < 1224353628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or should I say < 1224353633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://com.instantrimshot/ < 1224353671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm no < 1224353671 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :European date format isn't mixed-endian, but it's still backwards. < 1224353676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider English < 1224353686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The instantrimshot of the com" < 1224353692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1224353697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uris are pretty much perfect < 1224353697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beacuse < 1224353701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact that it's foobar < 1224353709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is more important to a person than the fact that it's a company called foobar < 1224353717 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: also, chinese and indonesians should use single token addresses < 1224353717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a nonprofit called foobar < 1224353717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1224353904 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, why did you mention linguistics? :D < 1224353960 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: clearly europeans and americans should use big-endian paths, while japanese should use little-endian ones < 1224353972 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224353979 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont follow why this should be the case tho < 1224353988 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :word order? < 1224354000 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the word orders aren't exactly mirrors of one another < 1224354008 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a joke, btw, so if you disagree with it i'll sic ehird on you :D < 1224354023 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Japanese is SOV while european languages are SVO for the most part < 1224354032 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :celtic languages are VSO < 1224354035 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(see recent discussion for that too) < 1224354038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive's rigid joke standards strike again < 1224354060 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and spanish and italian can occasionally get OVS, which IS the exact opposite of english. < 1224354064 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: i think you are now officially without a sense of humor < 1224354085 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i laugh at big bang theory. :| < 1224354086 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well so can other germanic languages < 1224354094 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1224354098 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :germany languages have V2 word order < 1224354113 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they can get any word order with the verb second < 1224354118 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PP-V < 1224354120 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S-V < 1224354122 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O-V < 1224354126 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adv-V < 1224354153 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :german can only do it in main clauses, interestingly, while yiddish and danish, i believe, can do it in subordinate clauses < 1224354169 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1224354218 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: also i was not considering the entire word order, only general mostly head-final vs. mostly head-initial < 1224354247 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well japanese is indeed uniformly head-final, except with the case of demonstratives, which might tell us something about demonstratives < 1224354262 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but english and other SVO languages tend not to be head initial, even mostly. < 1224354265 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're sort of half-half < 1224354296 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a technical sense, the difference is that japanese is almost uniformly Specifier-Complement-Head word order, with English being Specifier-Head-Complement < 1224354311 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i guess with regards to Head-Complement ordering you're correct < 1224354330 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm what about romance languages? < 1224354341 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :romance languages are also usually S-H-C < 1224354348 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they frequently put adjectives last < 1224354354 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed they do < 1224354361 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but adjectives are adjuncts < 1224354363 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not specs or comps < 1224354370 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and adjunct ordering tends to be fairly arbitrary < 1224354385 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trend, infact, is that languages with V-O word order tend to also have N-Adj word order < 1224354400 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes germanic languages rather unusual in that regard < 1224354423 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a complement then? prepositional clauses and the like? < 1224354428 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nuh < 1224354450 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, the idea of Specs and Complements in minimalism is like so: < 1224354511 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have some operation called merge that takes two things and sticks them together in a bundle < 1224354512 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think old norse put adjectives last somewhat more frequently < 1224354515 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hungarian has free word order too... Quite a source of confusion (initially, anyway) combined with dropping pronouns and the 3rd person "is/are". :( < 1224354524 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this bundle has some distinguished member called the Head < 1224354541 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first member merged with a head is called the complement < 1224354549 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last is called the complement < 1224354559 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait < 1224354565 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have something like this: [Spec [Head Complement]] < 1224354617 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its essentially a theory-internal matter. complements are sisters-to-heads, specifiers are daughters-to-the-final-phrase < 1224354734 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know its kind of confusing. like i said, its kind of theory internal < 1224354785 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another way to look at it is like this: < 1224354803 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heads seem to be able to put restrictions on their complements, but not on their specifiers. < 1224354912 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you give an example of a nominal phrase with both spec and complement? < 1224354935 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nouns generally dont take complements, but sure < 1224354956 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah that explains why i felt it didn't fit < 1224354960 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.. nominal phrases also don't seem to be headed by a noun.. :p < 1224354975 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1224354987 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it seems weird, but its apparently correct < 1224354987 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this theory is getting less intuitive all the time < 1224354988 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1224355006 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, well, intuition never did make sense in science :) < 1224355013 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i can give you a full nominal phrase that has multiple specs and complements < 1224355021 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1224355026 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first i suggest you open this page: http://ironcreek.net/phpsyntaxtree/? < 1224355034 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and draw this tree: [XP Spec [X' [X] [Comp]]] < 1224355052 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since that'll give you a nice clear visual template for what specs and comps are < 1224355078 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1224355120 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(done btw) < 1224355180 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[DP [DP John] [D' [D 's] [NP [N student] [PP [P of] [DP linguistics]]]]] < 1224355185 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :draw that < 1224355221 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing labeled [D 's] is the head of the main DP, as you can see by the projections of D above it: D->D'->DP < 1224355252 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[DP John], to the left of D', is the specifier of [D 's] because it's the last thing to join up before the main DP < 1224355279 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[NP student of linguistics] is the complement to [D 's], because its the first item that joins up with [D 's] < 1224355292 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you saying "'s" is the head of that phrase? O_O < 1224355302 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to be the case :p < 1224355313 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but dont think of heads as being what the phrase is about < 1224355329 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think of heads as more like functions in function applications < 1224355340 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and infact, when we say it like that, it sounds completely correct right? < 1224355345 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Functions in Function-Applications < 1224355359 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Function-Applications are like Determiner-Phrases < 1224355367 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Function-Application is about the function, is it? < 1224355371 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh like 's is an operator < 1224355379 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. and a Determiner-Phrase is not about the determiner < 1224355414 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if anything, a Noun Phrase isn't about a noun, either < 1224355423 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole nominal phrase is about something in the WORLD < 1224355427 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like.. a person, or a substance, or an event < 1224355441 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the words themselves are just things that describe that referent, even nouns. < 1224355447 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anyway < 1224355467 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[PP of lx] is the complement to [N student] because its the first thing that joins with [N student] < 1224355486 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it _does_ seem weird to consider the complement to be the _first_ thing joined though, since "'s student of linguistics" does not have meaning alone < 1224355488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yawn < 1224355490 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and [DP linguistics] is the complement to [P of] for similar reasons < 1224355506 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: we're thinking in bottom up building of the sentence < 1224355517 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, you're right that ['s ...] has no meaning by itself < 1224355520 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :atleast no complete meaning < 1224355522 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but so what? < 1224355526 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this isnt about meaning < 1224355528 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its about structure < 1224355532 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1224355674 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh why isn't "of" the head of "student of linguistics"? < 1224355698 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because of is a preposition and so heads a preposition phrase < 1224355704 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"student of linguistics" isnt a preposition phrase < 1224355713 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :further more, you don't /need/ the preposition phrase < 1224355730 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but thats getting into more weird shit that complicates things < 1224355734 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 's tails a possessive phrase, so they seem analogous just reversed < 1224355734 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :selectional requirements, etc. < 1224355745 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, but "John's" /is/ completely acceptable. < 1224355747 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(making up terms here) < 1224355763 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you dont need the noun-phrase that follows. < 1224355765 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :furthermore < 1224355771 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have D's like "that" < 1224355776 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"that dog" <> "that" < 1224355819 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but like i said, now we're getting into more complicated shit < 1224355831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yawn < 1224355853 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i think that's about enough < 1224355857 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. < 1224355861 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1224356245 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah-hah, something like 24 hours of computation, resulting in: "terminate called after throwing an instance of 'char const*'" < 1224356258 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1224356261 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shame you can't like < 1224356268 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :save state up to that point, go in and fix the code < 1224356273 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then start from there on < 1224356284 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats probably possible in smalltalk. < 1224356292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1224356298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: run it on a cluster next time :P < 1224356348 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and I think I'll just use a bit less of them input. < 1224356434 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem is probably because I use four-"byte" integers which use 7-bit bytes (because it's unspecified whether FILE's "read characters" instruction does sign-extension or not for values >= 128), so there's a limit of 2^(4*7) = 2^28 = ~270 million for some things like file offsets. < 1224356447 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The IRC-built language model file is already 200 megs, this one was probably bit too much. < 1224356551 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll just use something like a thousand ten-minute conversations instead of six thousand. < 1224356614 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for those automated conversation bots people: http://www.mezzacotta.net/ < 1224356624 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate those conversation bots < 1224356629 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially the ones for the loebner prize < 1224356639 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone thinks the loebner prize is a real turing test < 1224356643 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its fucking not. < 1224356645 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking of fungot and optbot here... < 1224356645 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how goes cfunge stuff? < 1224356645 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: later tell jonnay riastradh also, in the transformation process.) < 1224356645 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not by a long shot. < 1224356754 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: well that link is even more half-baked, as you might guess < 1224356810 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1224356862 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's an impressive archive ;D < 1224357114 0 :cherez!n=cherez@r02snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1224357123 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1224357441 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1224357442 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1224357448 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone said something about hungarian free word order < 1224357451 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not entirely free. :) < 1224357462 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :topic before main verb, iirc < 1224357467 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was that focus < 1224357486 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WH phrases in questions front, obligatorially < 1224357508 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and adpositions have well defined positions relative to their modifier phrases < 1224357522 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modified* < 1224357527 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd also bet that relative clauses and adjectives and such have to be in specific places too. < 1224357545 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'd also wager that the free word order isn't free at all, but rather, pragmatically determined. < 1224357557 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do recall adjectives being in front of nouns < 1224357658 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-254-104.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1224357741 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, fungot, try speaking like you're having a telephone conversation. < 1224357741 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ( ( noise noise uh-hum)) < 1224357758 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Okay, that's not quite what I had in mind... < 1224357758 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: on my earphones and ah that's < 1224357761 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's some really bad phone < 1224357854 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Sounds like someone interrupted you. < 1224357854 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: they're doing a survey on how people feel about it laughter < 1224357881 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a lot of things like "[laughter]" in those transcriptions, and fungot just discards []s. < 1224357881 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: he's got to)) < 1224357898 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember what the double-parentheses notation meant. < 1224357956 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's still not as good as the IRC logs, meh. < 1224357985 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: do you feel smarter now? < 1224357985 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ah that's a hobby < 1224358012 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: well, I'm glad you're making the attempt, at least < 1224358012 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: you know unless ah one it seems like < 1224358049 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: ... even though you're not really succeeding. < 1224358049 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: i have a four year old twins < 1224358072 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1224358096 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: well, it can't be yours, you're not that old yourself < 1224358096 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: this so that's how i learned so < 1224358121 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Are you telling me you wrote two other befunge bots, or what? < 1224358121 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: topic is so mind boggling and i i really < 1224358122 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes to get breakfast.
< 1224358186 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think fungot's finally losing it < 1224358187 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: yeah yeah true)) don't think that's < 1224358235 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: well with four year old twins life can be quite stressful < 1224358248 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: especially when you're not that old yourself < 1224358281 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends how you reckon. how many human years in a bot year? < 1224358342 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I figure the twins must be bots too < 1224358456 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but fungot might well be a old, old fart in bot years. < 1224358456 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i mean they my kids came up i said okay this is my < 1224358484 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: perhaps you've got botheimer's? < 1224358484 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: right and shaping the minds of the future < 1224358502 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: that's scary < 1224358502 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you try to make um there's a lot < 1224358620 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: A lot of what? < 1224358620 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ( ( so uh it's one of those < 1224358696 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't say this telephone conversation experiment has been very successful, though we did learn that fungot has kids. < 1224358696 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: and it's a great tool < 1224359812 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adopted kids, at that < 1224359840 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: how did you trick them into letting you adopt? < 1224359840 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: ( ( lipsmack well what a wonderful thing < 1224359887 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see where it was mentioned they were adopted < 1224360172 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Deewiant: i have a four year old twins < 1224360172 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: hi how you doing < 1224360173 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fungot: well, it can't be yours, you're not that old yourself < 1224360174 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: where are from actually i < 1224360208 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I'm from England. Do continue... < 1224360208 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: and do you see what i'm saying < 1224360249 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They could be simply stolen instead of adopted. Have you been participating in an illegal baby-smuggling operation, fungot? (As opposed to all the *legal* baby-smuggling, I guess.) < 1224360249 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you know if they < 1224360466 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot seems to have a problem with not finishing its < 1224360466 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: ( ( yeah so am i)) don't think that's right < 1224361731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1224361749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what word list is that? < 1224361840 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's that Fisher "conversational telephone speech" corpus I was talking about. < 1224361848 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that it's only one sixth of it, due to problems. < 1224363141 0 :Corun_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1224363409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1224363411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: hi < 1224363412 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: in a theater or watching a movie < 1224363415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: nope < 1224363415 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: are you which part < 1224363418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: nope < 1224363418 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that's what she does and she emails but < 1224363426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: make it feed the input sentence into the markov chain < 1224363426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1224363431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh idea < 1224363438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make the phrase put in the first word < 1224363442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then cut off the first word at the end < 1224363443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fact-maker! < 1224363453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the scheme programming language" "... is awesome" < 1224363599 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suddenly envision loading fungot with a telemarketing corpus for that < 1224363599 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah and understandably because of our policies but < 1224363836 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'd need to convert text to tokens in the Funge code for that. < 1224363850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Just shell out to the c++ :P < 1224363856 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's cheating! < 1224363869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but. < 1224363933 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Away now. < 1224363959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Psht. < 1224364028 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | There is none. < 1224364049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no psht? < 1224364056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, hm? < 1224364056 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah i would < 1224364061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, would what? < 1224364061 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ( ( you know um certainly in the younger grades i think they < 1224364069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what's with those (( ? < 1224364086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, you seem to "um" a lot? < 1224364086 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah i used to < 1224364096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, So you stopped now? < 1224364096 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ( ( noise noise noise noise noise < 1224364099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1224364166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you heard what optbot said < 1224364166 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: But some clients freak out when they recieve notices. < 1224364182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: You make more sense than fungot. < 1224364183 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: most of us even want to be at that before we were even thought of < 1224364183 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Its not one step. He uses a for loop. < 1224364183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot, what? Sounds like bad clients to me < 1224364184 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "what is do im half\nmarkov" < 1224364196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it would do... Since it uses plain quotes < 1224364329 0 :atrapado!n=mnh@217.168.11.235 JOIN :#esoteric < 1224364414 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're like duals, order and chaos < 1224364448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: be confusing < 1224364448 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: The language with only one instruction. < 1224364452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: be confusing some more < 1224364452 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: # 2 < 1224364458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: not really. < 1224365150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot, 3! < 1224365151 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: By the way, if you understood that.... < 1224365156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot, Yes? < 1224365156 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Hmm. < 1224365164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot, Hmm what? < 1224365164 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how does c++ do abstract classes < 1224365217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot, Using some sort of pointer table for virtual functions in general I believe, so I guess the same way... But I'm hardly an expert on that. < 1224365218 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: OH < 1224365225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot, that explained it? < 1224365226 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: install.sh < 1224365236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot, You certainly like changing topic a lot... < 1224365236 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh god < 1224365242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot, what happened!? < 1224365242 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I actually need to upload my latest plof2js < 1224365249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plof2js?! < 1224365253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like GregorR... < 1224365257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think? < 1224365781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1224365964 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's some sort of notation in the transcriptions. < 1224366004 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure where they put the documentation (as opposed to the raw data) of the thing, so I can't check what it meant. < 1224366092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1224366100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, does the license allow this? < 1224366133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also you may be interesting to know that ATHR is progressing nicely, still a lot to do to get it done, but I already managed several points on the road map < 1224366150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(combined roadmap/todo/design/ideas) < 1224366184 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it allows just about anything we care to use it for, as long as we don't distribute the stuff. A couple of messed-up quotations is not really copying; OTOH IANAL, so I probably won't leave it up. < 1224366205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, http://rafb.net/p/GMoXXJ83.html < 1224366212 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Portions of speech where the transcriber could not be sure exactly what was said were marked with double parentheses -- " (( ... )) " -- and the transcriber could hazard a guess as to what was said, or leave the region between parentheses blank." < 1224366251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the "noise" one? < 1224366260 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anywhere where's there ((s. < 1224366263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1224366271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, are there a lot of those? < 1224366281 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All kinds of "uh mm" type utterances. < 1224366310 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The noise one was probably (( [noise] )) or something, fungot just throws the []s out. < 1224366310 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: so has your life changed much since september eleventh < 1224366340 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Not to sound insensitive, but not really. < 1224366340 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: some car with that < 1224366389 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are 40 topics they had people discuss, let's see what kind of selection the bot got. < 1224366527 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite wide, actually; topics from 12 to 29 occur in those files I used. < 1224366621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1224366928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: 9/11 was an inside job WAKE UP SHEEPLE < 1224366928 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what are we going to reach the top i just drew a straight line < 1224366935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: ... you did 9/11? < 1224366935 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: in other words i suppose < 1224366940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: wow. :\ < 1224366940 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: oh really that would be < 1224366948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: no that's not ok man, not cool >:( < 1224366948 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but er i'm in a < 1224366955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: DON'T DODGE THE ISSUE < 1224366961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1224366962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1224366974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I broke it. < 1224366989 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just the ignore mode, I think. < 1224367042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh. Darn. < 1224367046 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Considering that you were "born" not too long ago, how come you're responsible for the 9/11 thing? You used TRDS to time travel or something? < 1224367047 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yeah you find less opportunities to uh < 1224367082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: bot babies < 1224367082 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: oh i had mine on my shoulder ' cause um < 1224367091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: be careful with them, you might drop em < 1224367092 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: and uh uh mn)) < 1224367098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: DON'T DODGE ISSUES < 1224367098 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ( ( well)) < 1224367102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: STOPPIT < 1224367102 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but you know you could do < 1224367106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: >:E < 1224367138 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot's so contemptuous. < 1224367139 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: so um yeah and then the second one was a good thing to have < 1224367691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1224367743 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's not really any punctuation in the transcripts, so fungot doesn't do it either. < 1224367743 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yeah um it's cough < 1224367772 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's all like "my dad has thirteen brothers and sisters you know family can be all different kinds of things it can be friends it can be people you work with if you're close i guess it's all the" < 1224368012 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Abandonando" < 1224372023 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ne regrettons pas le passé, ne nous préoccupons pas de l'avenir : le sage vit dans le présent." < 1224373014 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1224375003 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1224375366 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-39-168.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224377673 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-39-168.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224377678 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1224379798 0 :ryanakca!n=ryan@ubuntu/member/ryanakca JOIN :#esoteric < 1224379825 0 :ryanakca!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose the sysadmins know that the wiki is kaput? < 1224380833 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1224385628 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | ^x x < 1224387367 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq < 1224393625 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.peta.org/Sea_Kittens/index.asp < 1224393628 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :save the sea kittens < 1224393629 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!! < 1224394114 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1224394739 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, that's retarded. < 1224394747 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's so retarded it makes me want to go eat fish, and I don't even like fish. < 1224394803 0 :omniscient_idiot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, fish is nasty < 1224397978 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So retarded that it reminds me of people getting turned into monkeeys. < 1224398056 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Cowboy Bebop episode) < 1224398606 0 :hando!n=L@116.45.63.25 JOIN :#esoteric < 1224398615 0 :hando!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1224398623 0 :hando!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with esolangs wiki? < 1224400296 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lurve how people only come to this channel if the wiki is borked :P < 1224400321 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hando: Well, the problem is that it's borkleborked, and we don't have our deborklarizing ray warmed up yet (it runs on tubes y'know) < 1224400371 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real 17m42.983s < 1224400372 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :user 17m18.653s < 1224400374 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sys 0m1.716s < 1224400386 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I need to tweak this slightly... < 1224400404 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on what your'e doing with those 17 minutes. < 1224400408 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's O(n^3 * m^3) now < 1224400416 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a bloody lot :( < 1224400426 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's /probably/ a bad running time :P < 1224400532 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes every distinct triple from a list of ~1000 strings and finds the longest (longest common substring of the triple), which is really... probably not the right way to go about it < 1224400559 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's 1e9/6 triples :D < 1224400608 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that 17 minutes figure was with only 140 strings (they're IRC messages, so, not long strings) and it hadn't even finished yet < 1224401040 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it kind of works, though... it generates " retarded" given the most recent messages :) < 1224401358 0 :hando!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: long time no see < 1224402566 0 :hando!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So.. graue runs the wiki, but he's not there, so the wiki keeps being broken? < 1224403199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1224403200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1224406110 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1224406162 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders why spammers send him email in german
< 1224406179 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, if it was random - but i cannot recall any french, say < 1224406572 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hando: that looks broken indeed. and graue is very rarely here. < 1224406626 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't even aware that there was a 'graue' person... < 1224406634 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I've been here regularly for 2 years. < 1224406646 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i've seen him < 1224406682 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's pretty rarely on the wiki too, when i think about it. but for minor problems there are several admins < 1224406696 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i guess only graue can handle a real crash < 1224406746 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION doesn't know as he is not a wiki admin
< 1224406790 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 is one, but he is away, which means not logged in as he and ehird share an irc bouncer < 1224406855 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, sunday morning is about _the_ slowest time on this channel < 1224407021 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo < 1224407023 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HIYA < 1224407039 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good moaning < 1224407040 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is memorizing processor designs
< 1224407105 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some day in the far future your memory will be _full_, and you will start regretting it. just before you descend into senility. < 1224407214 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't seem too far-fetched, i'm already starting to forget english vocabulary at an alarming rate. < 1224407223 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek < 1224407228 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | err < 1224407241 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even optbot is shocked < 1224407242 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I was going to tell him something! < 1224407255 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optbot: well speak out < 1224407256 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: near* < 1224407274 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, took me about a minute to find the word far-fetched, a word i've known since i was -1 < 1224407327 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, usually when i take a break from reading, the words come back, and all the new data stays too < 1224407344 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko < 1224407348 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well don't mind me, i cannot even think and chew at the same time < 1224407357 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, i just bit myself in the mouth < 1224407426 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also processor designs aren't that hard to memorize, i know the mips instruction set by heart, and i know exactly how it's translated to opcodes, so all i have to do it traverse the set of operations, and check what lines and registers i need < 1224407426 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko < 1224407471 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hard part is i have a hard time letting myself draw the lines in slightly different shapes than the ones in the book < 1224407479 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION suddenly wonders if there's a wickedpedia
< 1224407497 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :functionally equivalent, but the exam checker will see i don't have a photographic memory < 1224407502 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he will laugh < 1224407510 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and probably spit on my paper < 1224407512 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in disgust < 1224407522 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently there is < 1224407528 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1224407576 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's about disney villains? < 1224407641 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although there is also a wickedpedia.no, which is about erotica) < 1224407732 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and people apparently use it as a slur against wikipedia itself. oh well. < 1224407821 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there probably is a secret wickedpedia used just by exam checkers, you know < 1224408054 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they wicked? < 1224408470 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wicked morning. I mean, good. < 1224408589 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh noes, fizzie is an exam checker! < 1224410021 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Sniffle" < 1224410346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1224410389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :morning < 1224410611 0 :Mony!n=AssHole@AToulouse-258-1-125-31.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224410671 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plop < 1224411289 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1224411659 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : o < 1224411892 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@m-15.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1224412088 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1224414065 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1224415521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there still? < 1224415618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would saying something like "If a ATHR thread causes an internal crash in the interpreter, it shall if possible not crash other threads." be a good idea? < 1224415619 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Partially. Trying to eat some breakfast. < 1224415655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can semi-guarantee that in my implementation. Only thing would be if I hit some internal erlang bug or cause a cascading crash. < 1224415695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for example if I had a bug in some fingerprint crashing division by zero it would get logged but not affect other threads. < 1224415708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or would that be hard to implement in most other languages? < 1224415717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ehird < 1224415722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1224415738 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi AnMaster < 1224415741 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't be here long < 1224415750 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this Internet connection is really dodgy, too < 1224415759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a while ago it was only giving me one second of connectivity before breaking < 1224415764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, http://rafb.net/p/AQQhs539.html < 1224415772 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, both my main email and backup email are down at the moment < 1224415775 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is annoying < 1224415778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but I assume you will be back later today? < 1224415805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not < 1224415807 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's Sunday < 1224415813 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will probably be back tomorrow though < 1224415813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well see that link now then < 1224415822 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have skimmed it < 1224415829 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very quickly < 1224415835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what in particular should I be looking at? < 1224415837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and see scrollback for the last few lines before you said hi < 1224415849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that ATHR implementation is making progress :) < 1224415915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, poke? < 1224415915 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not hard to implement if you only say "if possible". < 1224415926 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: things can be possible and still difficult < 1224415929 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anything you can do about the wiki or are we just going to have to wait for graue? < 1224415938 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what in particular needs doing? < 1224415938 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, it's also a SHOULD, not a MUST. < 1224415942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can do a lot but not everything < 1224415950 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's crashed, basically < 1224415957 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't fix that... < 1224415961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah. Hm also I need a function to give back thread id, may not be useful in ATHR on it's own, but could potentially in future fingerprints extending ATHR < 1224415976 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally speaking Graue fixes it within a day if you email them, though < 1224416015 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... same error as last time < 1224416015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"from within function "MediaWikiBagOStuff::_doquery". MySQL returned error "1194: Table 'mw_objectcache' is marked as crashed and should be repaired" < 1224416016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1224416019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really ouch < 1224416020 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't have his (their?) email < 1224416032 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know the fix, but it requires MySQL root access on the server the wiki's running on < 1224416033 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can't do it < 1224416047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well, with a name like Catatonic Porpoise, the gender isn't obvious < 1224416052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, which is why you use postgre instead of mysql < 1224416075 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can say that. i had forgotten that nickname. < 1224416077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, since postgre seems to be less messy on crash in my experience < 1224416160 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue@oceanbase.org, anyway < 1224416399 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can anyone hear me? < 1224416415 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is hearing (and mailing)
< 1224416424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1224416424 0 :oklocod!n=nnscript@dsl-aur-fe96dd00-60.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1224416428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no I can't < 1224416486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ais523: Should F (flush signal queue) return any messages that were flushed? < 1224416513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like count at the top of the stack, followed by that number of signals that were in the queue < 1224416520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or should it just discard them all? < 1224416726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it should return them < 1224416850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, fizzie: http://rafb.net/p/PB3f2o65.html < 1224417619 0 :Corun_!n=Corun@94-192-102-5.zone6.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1224417683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, fizzie: I think it may be quite possible to do hot code change of parts of efunge without stopping :D < 1224417689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that anyone would ever want it < 1224417697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact I did that on the input server just now < 1224417710 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a very specific opinion on F returning the signals; the name "flush" doesn't really sound like it'd return them. But since you can just use "k$" to get rid of them values, it doesn't really hurt. < 1224417736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, and it can be useful to get them < 1224417744 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... figuring out how to hot-change parts of a Feather program while it's running is a major problem < 1224417772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? Well I could potentially hot-change _any_ part of efunge. < 1224417780 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well erlang is known for being able to do that... < 1224417791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually the ets tables may cause a tiny amount of issues there < 1224417806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, true, but you need to be careful with your design for it to work in erlang too < 1224417830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :following the otp design principles < 1224417841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sp?) < 1224417855 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@a91-153-125-33.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1224417890 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is something called Erlang/OTP, so must be right < 1224417954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, no I mean "principles" < 1224417959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that was the correct spelling < 1224417963 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds right too < 1224417965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know how to spell OTP of course < 1224418006 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure i've seen it spelled wrong (principals) < 1224418013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1224418107 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-252-1-39-168.w82-126.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1224418122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, http://www.erlang.org/doc/design_principles/part_frame.html < 1224418155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and OTP is probably the most misnamed technology ever. < 1224418180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it stands for Open Telecom Platform, except these days erlang and OTP is used for lots of stuff not related to telecom... < 1224418245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually SASL may be worse since it is confusing with another technology... < 1224418253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in erlang context it means "System Architecture Support Libraries" < 1224418266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elsewhere it tends to mean "Simple Authentication and Security Layer" < 1224418282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and OTP usually means "one time password" outside erlang context < 1224418380 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah noticed that < 1224418405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so erlang had quite bad luck with acronyms < 1224418454 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need to find an acronym for this concept < 1224418465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what about the erlang table viewer tool? tv < 1224418485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a debugging tool really) < 1224418512 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O you'd think they're doing it on purpose :D < 1224418520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is also the event tracer et < 1224418522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1224418567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, a database called mnesia (the story goes some boss said they couldn't call a database "amnesia". "You can't have a database that forgets things!" so they just dropped the a). < 1224418590 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's clever enough < 1224418596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1224418618 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except i'm dubious on there being an a in the first place < 1224418649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well Joe Armstrong (one of the original designers of Erlang) claims that story in one of his books about erlang < 1224418692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION got it as an ebook
< 1224418720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, http://rafb.net/p/u5s4kE75.html (copy and paste from said ebook) < 1224418759 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1224418836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway sasl and otp are poorly selected acronyms indeed. Especially since they mean something else within computer context. (while tv doesn't). < 1224418856 0 :oklocod!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1224418867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But sasl and opt are both good and will be used in efunge (otp supervisor tree is already used) < 1224418893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otp* < 1224418897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not opt) < 1224419022 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite common misspelling that, right optbot? < 1224419022 0 :optbot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that isn't an earth shattering problem is it? you can still implement continuations easily with coroutines... < 1224419118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1224420341 0 :Corun_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1224420383 0 :Corun!n=Corun@94-192-102-5.zone6.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1224421196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1224421202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1224421203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's gone < 1224421213 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neener neener < 1224421329 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeer < 1224421453 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those finnish long vowels are really scary < 1224421621 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nëëner < 1224421791 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not finnish, i think it may be estonian < 1224421861 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, albanian < 1224423585 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :albanian has long ë's? < 1224423665 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION checks
< 1224423870 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, only the Gheg dialect has long vowels < 1224423895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh? < 1224423933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's heh about that < 1224423943 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :albanian has two main dialects, Gheg and Tosk. Tosk is the basis of the standard language < 1224424078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HUH < 1224424089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is crazy :D < 1224424106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the erlang table viewer got an option to make it output error messages in Haiku. < 1224424267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Question: < 1224424284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How should I differentiate "wrapped text" and "linebreaked text"? < 1224424286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a poem, < 1224424287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed it is, < 1224424290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it should use linebreaks. < 1224424291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- < 1224424294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The selected table is unreadable! Only table information may be viewed!" (normal) vs. "Table protected.\nThe answer that you're seeking\nwill remain unknown." < 1224424295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1224424297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But this is just some long, wrapped text, and < 1224424299 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1224424303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should not use linebreaks because it is not < 1224424304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a poem. < 1224424346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well what about mixing CR and LF, like LF for wrapping and CR for line break? < 1224424349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1224424359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the only pure text way I can think of < 1224424368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I mean, without modifying the original text. :-) < 1224424376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A heuristic is fine, of course. < 1224424383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah you mean to *detect*? < 1224424388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nod* < 1224424389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that is trickier... < 1224424413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pondering writing a little program that turns EmailML (as in, the conventions people use when emailing) into HTML. < 1224424419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it comes naturally to me already. :-P < 1224424421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I can't think of any simple way, if it seems the text is always cut off near column 70-80 then maybe? < 1224424429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah, probably. < 1224424436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there are many poems with lines this very long, < 1224424442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because they would not be very fun to read, indeed, they would not, < 1224424451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, this is certainly not a poem, indeed, yepidoodle, blah blah blah. < 1224424455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if you restrict yourself to some specific type of poem and a specific language you could analyse word structure and so on < 1224424467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be possible to detect for example Haiku that way < 1224424472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and rhymes < 1224424476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah, that's a little overblown though. :-P < 1224424482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a generic solution I can't think of < 1224424499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm basing stuff on http://inamidst.com/topic/avocet < 1224424502 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shakespearian meters have pretty long lines don't they? < 1224424505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you do have to cave in somehow - < 1224424514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example, @links that span many words (http://google.com/) < 1224424517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, was just about to mention that and other forms < 1224424523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think i've chosen @ for the marker of the start of those. < 1224424526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example Greek mythology < 1224424527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems pretty natural. < 1224424529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the english name < 1224424535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hexameter in Swedish < 1224424584 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's the same, i seem to recall iambic pentameter for shakespeare < 1224424780 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aye, and occasionally trochaic tetrametre < 1224424799 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the faerie in Midsummer Night's Dream, IIRC < 1224425021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION concludes that lines under 60 chars will be linebreaked
< 1224425166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, which could be due to it being a header, or because there is a new section < 1224425172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say a new paragraph < 1224425204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so last line of a paragraph could just be a few words or whatever < 1224425217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes. < 1224425219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1224425220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1224425228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last line won't be breaked < 1224425229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also a line could be shorter to avoid breaking a long url on the next line into several parts < 1224425230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1224425231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there is no following line anyway < 1224425247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a long inline math expression or whatever < 1224425248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, you can't do this: < 1224425251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is an awesome poem yeah yeah: < 1224425252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo bar < 1224425253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quux < 1224425254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dead < 1224425258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah I love it man it is amazing I love it yeah man < 1224425260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is great man yeah. < 1224425268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"is-linebreaking" is a property of -paragraphs- < 1224425275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so only the first line has to be over 60 chars < 1224425275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm < 1224425303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if it is shorter due to a long url didn't fit onto the same line? < 1224425321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the case that you need to break before 60 chars to stop a URL being huge, well, just let it go over 80 columns 'cause when would that ever happen < 1224425324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: as i said - how many paragraphs have a URL before the first 60 chars? < 1224425326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the first line < 1224425328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just any URL < 1224425330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a _long_ URL < 1224425333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd say... not many. < 1224425344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in those rare cases, just let the line go over 80 chars < 1224425347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please see the documentation at < 1224425347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.erlang.org/doc/design_principles/spec_proc.html#6.2 next time blah < 1224425347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blah blah < 1224425349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example < 1224425353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is clearly wrapped < 1224425362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: tough shit < 1224425364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it would have been wider than 80 chars < 1224425364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :put the URL on the first line < 1224425371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, doesn't fit into 80 chars < 1224425375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and? < 1224425395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i'm aware you don't use any programs made after the 70s, but everyone else does < 1224425413 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to wrap, or not to wrap, that is the question < 1224425419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the majority of email clients (including Thunderbird and most other GUI ones I seen) defaults to breaking at 80 < 1224425436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you writing a document in a mail clien < 1224425436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1224425446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, " I'm pondering writing a little program that turns EmailML (as in, the conventions people use when emailing) into HTML." < 1224425454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that was about email? < 1224425470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it just so happens that the pseudo-plaintext used by humans most commonly appears in email. < 1224425476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1224425492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also the email specs states some max line length, can't remember what exactly atm < 1224425503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not the user's problem. < 1224425538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm? It means the email client has to wrap before that < 1224425554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you writing a document in a mail client < 1224425612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well pseudo-plaintext is common there < 1224425619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So? < 1224425624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and even in text documents I wrap at 80 < 1224425628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so does ais523 I bet < 1224425670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, so do I, for readability (well, actually at around 70). My point stands: The amount of texts in which a long URI is before first 60 characters of the first line of a paragraph is minimal. < 1224425679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in those texts, I'm sure you can handle going over 80 chrs for just one line. < 1224425702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, right you use bibtex for them instead ;P < 1224425754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some other detection you may want to add: < 1224425761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1224425762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually: < 1224425763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leading space and * < 1224425765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A line (B) after a line (A) is part of a wrapped paragraph if < 1224425765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :len(A+' '+B) > 60. < 1224425767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to detect bullet lists < 1224425773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same for numbers < 1224425774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, yes, I've got that all down. < 1224425785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think [[A line (B) after a line (A) is part of a wrapped paragraph if < 1224425785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :len(A+' '+B) > 60.]] is reasonable < 1224425787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since sometimes they do end near the 80th column < 1224425810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm... < 1224425833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well this will be tricky any way you do it, but should be fairly interesting. < 1224425842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may have to try for different values certainly. < 1224425845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I'm not purely plaintext anyway, for linking. < 1224425851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The syntax is as such: < 1224425863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foo bar baz (uri) => Foo bar baz < 1224425870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Foo @bar baz (uri) => Foo bar baz < 1224425962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if you plan to parse email you may want to auto detect gpg headers/footers and strip them or such < 1224425970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not plan to parse email. < 1224425971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not plan to parse email. < 1224425971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not plan to parse email. < 1224425971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not plan to parse email. < 1224425973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1224425974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1224425987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you should not have mentioned email in the first place then ;P < 1224426000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's the place where the pseduo-markup is used most.) < 1224426022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, this thing would be very hard to accurately parse I suspect: http://rafb.net/p/vMDvmM72.html < 1224426040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially the lists in the two last sections < 1224426051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from the alignment shit, I should be able to handle that fine. < 1224426068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :==/-- of same length = header, (*|-|whatever)-space = list < 1224426073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's about it < 1224426077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you plan to convert it to html you said?

message here