00:06:05 <ehird> SimonRC: fix majordomo2, please.
00:06:45 <GregorR> I tried but I screwed it up
00:07:20 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | in that context.
00:09:08 <ehird> GregorR: YOU FIX IT
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00:58:49 <SimonRC> Secret military resource naming FAIL: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SF_Hydro
01:00:31 <SimonRC> (It was used for shipping heavy water)
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01:26:20 * SimonRC detects some similarities to Pascal's Wager here: http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/10/ethical-injunct.html#more
01:31:49 <SimonRC> ah, maybe he is not making a silly mistake: http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/10/ends-dont-justi.html
01:32:42 <SimonRC> Summary: the ends don't ustify the means because you're human; other types of intelligence could have "the ends do justify the means" or even "the ends do not prohibit the means".
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02:14:00 <SimonRC> If anyone asks what is fast or slow oon an intel architecture, hit them with this 512-page document: http://www.intel.com/design/processor/manuals/248966.pdf
02:14:40 <SimonRC> oops, no, it is the "Optimisation Reference Manual"
02:15:09 <SimonRC> fucking hell, what is the world coming to if we need that much documentation to optimise machine code
02:17:21 <SimonRC> well, maybe that isn't that bad
02:21:38 <SimonRC> The AMD equivalent is a lightweight by comparison: a mere 384 pages.
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02:43:52 <adu> so anything new?
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04:01:55 <warrie> Let me take this moment to point out that if I find Obama's tax plan really boring, I'm uninterested, while if I'm not affected by it because I live in Ireland, I'm disinterested.
04:02:13 <warrie> Because I'm allowed to say anything at all after... nine minutes have passed without any conversation.
04:16:50 <warrie> Excellent demonstration of the nine-minute principle.
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06:07:20 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | ____________________________________________ | '!hangman <lcase-guess>' to guess a letter!.
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07:12:29 <oerjan> also, i didn't know warrie was irish.
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09:28:41 <SimonRC> it occurs to me that if one is looking for a person that won't be persuaded to let the AI out of the box, then a mailing list full of singularitarians who aren't philosophers is probably not the best place to start
09:29:26 * SimonRC feels irriated by philosophers
09:29:44 <oerjan> it's very dangerous to be irradiated by philosophers
09:30:06 <SimonRC> AFAICT the only way to argue with them and not have your opinion changed is either to be a philsopher yourself or to be very closed-minded
09:31:02 <oerjan> i refuse to consider that ridiculous statement
09:31:36 <SimonRC> I wonder if any have had a hobby of persuading random mentally-healthy people to kill themselves
09:31:48 <SimonRC> could a court convict you of murder?
09:31:59 <oerjan> you've been reading about that stone too? :D
09:32:13 <SimonRC> oerjan: no, and I don't want to know
09:32:44 * oerjan somehow got started on Overcoming Bias today
09:33:03 <oerjan> well, "somehow" == "from this channel", of course
09:33:27 <SimonRC> fortunately most of the opinions I gained from that blog seem to have faded away over time
09:33:46 <SimonRC> (or rather, I my desire to know is outweighed by the anticipation that I would regret asking)
09:37:05 <AnMaster> <SimonRC> The AMD equivalent is a lightweight by comparison: a mere 384 pages. <-- hah I read that one iirc
09:37:41 <SimonRC> how are thy different from Intel?
09:38:15 <optbot> SimonRC: .. how many do you have?
09:39:09 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | don't scan just as black and white.
09:44:28 <oerjan> darn now i may have to find a hangman ascii picture
09:46:59 <SimonRC> dude, vertical ain't going to work with the 5-sec delay
09:54:43 <oerjan> well someone's got to be it
09:57:51 * AnMaster waits for SimonRC to list his first char
09:59:23 <SimonRC> um, waitamo, I can't spell
09:59:25 <AnMaster> (or I'm going afk because it is too boring)
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10:02:03 <AnMaster> SimonRC, how could you *NOT* pick aardvark?
10:02:18 <SimonRC> AnMaster: well, there would be a third a
10:03:01 <AnMaster> just saw it in /usr/share/dict/words
10:03:40 <AnMaster> Definitions of Aaronite on the Web:
10:03:40 <AnMaster> * A kohen (or cohen, Hebrew כּהן, "priest", pl. כּהנִים, kohanim or cohanim) has a special status in Judaism. ...
10:03:40 <AnMaster> en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Aaronite
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10:39:18 <oklopol> hangman is much more fun as follows, with two players: one chooses a word, other guesses, then the first guy guesses; here, the other guy comes up with a word that would fit what there currently is, and adds letters accordingly; now the first guy changes his word, and this continues until both guys' words converge into the same word, the one who guesses it first wins
10:40:34 <oklopol> i invented this in the sauna once, it's much harder than hangman, and you don't need the actual hanging man, even, because you want to hang yourself anyway, after a while of playing
11:03:17 <SimonRC> what if you can't think of a word that fits?
11:07:20 <SimonRC> what if a programming language's terminology was not mathematical but from elsewhere?
11:07:20 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | psshhh.
11:07:52 <SimonRC> instead of the singleton pattern, we would hve the phoenix pattern
11:08:24 * SimonRC tires to think of more examples...
11:32:40 <oklopol> but there will always be a word, if whatever weird word the opponent may have chosen.
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12:13:24 <Deewiant> SimonRC: the songbird combinators come to mind
12:14:08 <Deewiant> http://www.angelfire.com/tx4/cus/combinator/birds.html
12:16:47 <oklopol> i want to mock a mockingbird.
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13:05:11 <SimonRC> which combinator is the mockingbird?
13:05:22 * SimonRC realises it would be easier o look
13:06:39 <SimonRC> ah, no, it's self-application
13:07:36 <SimonRC> ah, I see, I was confusing self-application with the Y combinator
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13:18:25 <AnMaster> like that eso lang that looks like a recipe
13:23:58 <SimonRC> AnMaster: what do you mean "why birds"?
13:24:06 <SimonRC> I didn't express a particular preference for birds
13:24:21 <ehird> i am so glad I am not seeing AnMaster's messages.
13:34:50 <ehird> [[as schiavo, or "dead while breathing".]] - mundane magic article
13:39:21 <SimonRC> ehird: indeed. In terms of metaphor potential, Teri Schiavo is the new Hellen Keller.
13:40:01 <ehird> SimonRC: in the future, "schiavo" will be an epithet meaning "useless".
13:40:03 <ehird> that is my prediction.
13:41:31 <SimonRC> actually, the two women are opposites
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13:46:38 * ehird watches his slow download
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13:48:56 <ehird> it is veeeeeeeeeery slow.
14:08:13 * SimonRC goes away. (Connotation inference FAIL: http://www.clusterstock.com/2008/10/forget-the-bailout-let-s-just-pray )
14:22:06 <ehird> http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2008/30oct_ftes.htm?list179029
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15:20:26 <asiekierk> I wonder why i'm compiling the original Unlambda v2 interpreter.
15:20:31 <asiekierk> I think i'll give out the binaries
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16:37:32 <oerjan> <ehird> SimonRC: in the future, "schiavo" will be an epithet meaning "useless".
16:37:47 <oerjan> incidentally the original italian means "slave"
16:38:07 <oerjan> why anyone would use that as a surname is beyond me
16:38:50 <oerjan> it's rather self-deprecating
16:39:18 <Deewiant> or maybe somebody else gave the name and it just stuck
16:47:38 <oerjan> <asiekierk> I wonder why i'm compiling the original Unlambda v2 interpreter.
16:48:28 <oerjan> (i think that is the original one. there are a lot of implementations in the distribution.)
16:48:52 <oerjan> the original C one may be awkward, as it requires Boehm's GC iirc
16:49:34 <oerjan> iirc the C one is derived from the Java one
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16:49:48 <oerjan> yeah just be like that
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16:50:35 <oerjan> other than that there is at least SML and Ocaml
16:51:12 <oerjan> as well as Haskell and INTERCAL which you may find elsewhere
16:52:30 <oerjan> oh and there is Mandelson's fast C implementation, which unfortunately is not quite according to spec iirc
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16:53:10 <oerjan> i think it broke on my heavily d-using program or something like that
16:53:33 <oerjan> asiekierka: the one that requires Boehm?
16:54:57 <oerjan> right on Windows too...
16:55:38 <oerjan> the reference-count version is supposedly the easiest to port iirc
16:55:52 <oerjan> being completely portable C
16:59:12 <asiekierka> Since i also wondered whether to make Unlambdii
16:59:49 <oerjan> of course if you have Java easily available you might want to use that one too
17:00:28 <oerjan> although that implementation iirc had the issue of not following Java's policy of only one class per file
17:01:26 <oerjan> which gave me trouble enough to give up when i considered modifying it
17:02:38 <oerjan> but i didn't try hard, i suppose
17:07:21 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | ...management.
17:07:37 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | my current approach leads to <3000 bytes in a few seconds, but i'm interested in other (possibly better) algorithms as well :).
17:15:45 -!- optbot has set topic: the entire backlog of #esoteric: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | I think I got input server working.
17:21:02 <optbot> asiekierka: movement of elements of the syntax
17:21:23 <optbot> asiekierka: Whatever most naturally maps to the language in question, I guess.
17:21:24 <oerjan> optbot: ITYM elements the syntax of movement
17:21:24 <optbot> oerjan: that result is reversed at the end where krishnamurthi got into a brief fnord with a normal distribtion, 95% are within 2 feet of it.
17:22:05 <oerjan> optbot: how observant of you
17:22:05 <optbot> oerjan: and so do quite a few others.
17:22:47 <optbot> asiekierka: do you want to try it with the german langpack ^^^
17:23:00 <oerjan> btw, never get into fnords with normal distributions. you're not going to get out alive.
17:23:15 <oerjan> unless you're krishnamurthi or fisher
17:24:19 <oerjan> student tried and all that remained was a t
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17:27:19 <ehird> I wonder what the music tastes of #esoteric are./
17:28:04 * oerjan thinks he's already admitted to liking Abba
17:28:52 <oerjan> but then i'm old as a mountain, so i'm excused
17:29:33 * ehird is listening to Autechre - Bine, at the moment.
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17:30:33 <ehird> chiptunes are pretty awesome
17:31:11 <asiekierka> 3) YOU DON'T NEED TO PAY TO BUY THEM, or even YOU DON'T NEED TO BUY THEM *usually*
17:31:25 <ehird> how do you buy something without paying
17:31:46 <asiekierka> TO GIVE CASH TO STUPID COMPANIES SO THEY CAN FUND DRM i meant
17:32:17 <asiekierka> 1 month, 23 days until my xmas special's released
17:32:41 * oerjan assumes some of the copyright/patent people will be first against the wall when the revolution comes
17:34:35 <oerjan> now where is that butterfly?
17:35:09 <oerjan> or is that a Mac thing? i have some vague recall there
17:35:43 * oerjan sees no butterfly here
17:36:37 <ehird> i was making an xkcd reference
17:36:55 <ehird> http://imgs.xkcd.com/comics/real_programmers.png
17:38:30 <oerjan> not a windows thing, then
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18:31:16 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: whoa, you're alive
18:31:30 <bsmntbombdood> but i think we can safely say that real programmers use ed
18:32:01 <Deewiant> real programmers don't need to write their code down
18:32:55 <oklopol> real programmers don't even *exist*.
18:33:28 <ehird> Deewiant: he was actually being litera
18:33:32 <ehird> oklopol: means that there are no programmers
18:33:47 <ehird> i'm like the okointerpreter
18:34:04 <ehird> bit enthusiastic there
18:34:13 <oklopol> i'm tired. i'm tired all day every day is someone feeding me pills or something?
18:34:37 <oklopol> knew you'd say that. you're such a feedr
18:56:41 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: talk in here more often
18:57:02 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: you or #esoteric
18:57:18 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: but this place is so boring.
18:57:29 <ehird> it needs your blend of orgy and scheme code.
18:58:31 <oklopol> bsmntbombdood: i'll consider that
18:58:51 <oklopol> also, tomorrow, i can koedddd, it's my coding day code all day yayayy :-)
18:59:21 <oklopol> well, i'm also gonna go buy that one book, but that's only like 600 pages
18:59:30 <oklopol> who am i kidding, i'm just gonna read all day :<
18:59:47 <ehird> when you do the coding
18:59:53 <oklopol> and you only hear the positions of objects
19:00:00 <oklopol> from teh stereo audio thingio
19:00:03 <ehird> oklopol: make a bot, and a language impl, and that 4d game thing you were making
19:00:11 <ehird> it'll be just like april 08
19:00:28 <oklopol> what happened in april 08?
19:00:34 <ehird> umm i dunno but it was that kind of time
19:00:40 <ehird> of botting and languaging and stuff and yeah
19:00:52 <oklopol> that was pretty active time for me
19:01:00 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: dc?
19:01:09 <oklopol> after that, courses ended, and i started getting lazier.
19:01:25 <oklopol> and now that they've started again, i'm hogging so many of them that i can't really get anything else done.
19:01:45 <ehird> oklopol: you have a lot of catching up to do tomorrow then
19:01:50 <oklopol> doesn't help that i want to pass all courses with a perfect grade
19:01:58 <ehird> i will make the ultimate markov chain bot to beat you to it, ofc.
19:02:33 <oklopol> yeah markov chains in bitxtreme!
19:04:19 <oklopol> noprob news: realized i could do as follows: remove all random vars, a var's probability is just the portion of clause assignments where it's true *at the moment of being used as a probability*
19:04:42 <oklopol> this basically means the "probability" of a variable is not an inherent property
19:05:04 <oklopol> it can *change*, and actually reflects more what the program knows about the variable's dependencies
19:06:10 <oklopol> that would be considerably less pure, but i like how it's a bit like prolog's cut; the language is very clearly declarative, but it has a construct that is very clearly attached to how the language is actually implemented on an imperative machine
19:07:02 <oklopol> i also had some other language idea, but i can't seem to recall it now.
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19:07:12 <oklopol> gotta go buy something energetic to drink
19:07:36 <oklopol> reading about distributed computing in java is making me sleepy for a reason or two
19:10:31 <oklopol> actually it's quite weird imo that everyone is making imperative languages
19:11:29 <oklopol> i find it much more interesting to create declarative ones
19:11:43 <oklopol> mainly because there aren't that many of them
19:12:12 <oklopol> (i mean assuming aiming for originality)
19:12:19 <oklopol> (which i'm always aiming for)
19:12:47 <oklopol> (also the shop, i'm gonna go)
19:14:35 <oklopol> [orgy time ]sa[laPdx]dx <<< i still don't get this.
19:14:40 <oklopol> someone explain it while i'm gone
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19:23:35 <oerjan> someone said it was in dc
19:24:24 <oerjan> http://linux.die.net/man/1/dc
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20:57:39 <GregorR> These banana split Oreos really aren't very good.
21:00:14 <oklopol> says the guy who kills kittens...
21:01:14 <oklopol> well i guess they aren't good then.
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21:51:13 <pikhq> AnMaster: You've been helping put the Gentoo Wiki back together?
21:52:22 <AnMaster> pikhq, yes I used to be a very active (1000+ edits) about a year ago
21:54:02 <pikhq> I'm not much of an editor on the wiki, but I'm quite fond of it...
21:54:21 <pikhq> One of the better sites for Linux howtos, Gentoo and otherwise.
21:55:35 <AnMaster> there is a site with the google cache rescued stuff
21:56:02 <AnMaster> pikhq, doesn't have all, but quite a bit
21:56:10 <AnMaster> for images however: way back machine
21:56:44 <AnMaster> pikhq, oh and we can't restore directly from that cache... Reason: a certain level of QA is now required
21:58:01 <pikhq> So, only some of those pages are acceptable.
21:58:13 <pikhq> Namely, the ones that were actually good-quality.
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22:10:25 <AnMaster> pikhq, yes and they may need a bit of rework sometimes
22:29:30 <GregorR> Why don't the sell cat food that's actually made of the food cats would get in the wild.
22:29:52 <GregorR> Where's the roach and spider bits in rat gravy?
22:31:09 <oklopol> CAN'T FIND CATS TO KILL WITHOUT A GOOD BAIT HUH?
22:47:51 <Jiminy_Cricket> GregorR, I thought it was illegal to sell human body parts.
22:55:16 <warrie> Why would it be illegal to sell human body parts?
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