00:00:37 well that was the essence 00:01:50 I just a moment ago read that there has been horizontal gene transfer from bacteria to fungi and perhaps between two eukaryotes, on Wikipedia. 00:02:01 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tree_of_life_(science) 00:02:39 blasphemy! eukaryotes must be perfect! 00:03:16 That article implies but does not actually state that horizontal gene transfer does not occur between eukaryotes. 00:03:51 heh @ http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Image:Tree_of_life_by_Haeckel.jpg 00:05:02 * lament wonders what haeckel meant by "egg-animals" 00:05:05 So we're most closely related to either bats or sloths. 00:05:13 "There is some evidence that even higher plants and animals have been affected and this has raised concerns for safety." 00:05:24 That looks like it says "Ovwaria". 00:05:52 ovulaira? 00:05:54 ovularia 00:06:35 http://nomen.at/Ovularia 00:06:37 That's consistent, if "ul" looks like an au-ligature. 00:06:58 they're however completely missing from wikipedia 00:07:27 length' xs = sum [1 | _ <- xs] 00:07:29 okay that is clever. 00:08:13 length' xs = sum [1 | sum <- xs] 00:08:19 Same thing, only more confusing. 00:09:01 Warrigal: Well done. 00:09:52 length' xs = sum [1 | length' <- xs], as well. I don't know if length' xs = sum [1 | xs <- xs] would work. 00:10:51 works in hugs 00:11:14 i like length' xs = sum [1 | length' <- xs] 00:11:41 lament: you can't like it 00:11:42 it's Haskell 00:12:08 I think length' xs = sum [1 | 1 <- xs] would give a type error and then a pattern match error. 00:12:23 You could only use it on lists of Num, and then all the elements have to be 1. 00:12:36 no 00:12:42 Warrigal: syntax error 00:12:46 you can't do "1 = 2" 00:12:49 which that boils down to 00:12:51 kinda 00:12:58 ehird: you tried it? 00:12:59 actually you can 00:13:02 huh 00:13:03 you can? 00:13:04 :o 00:13:29 , I think length' xs = sum [1 | 1 <- xs] will work just fine, though it might make xs be a list of 00:13:43 it counts the number of 1s in the list 00:13:52 Actually Num. 00:13:55 -!- decipher has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 00:14:04 oerjan: cut 00:14:04 e 00:14:28 List comprehensions just throw out things not matching the pattern? 00:14:32 yep 00:14:52 just like do expressions 00:15:09 oerjan: 00:15:15 do (x:xs) <- []; ... 00:15:19 surely that is an error? 00:15:27 It's only an error if you evaluate x or xs. 00:15:35 Haskell is lazy, after all. 00:15:39 -!- decipher has joined. 00:15:46 that has nothing to do with it 00:15:58 Likewise, I think 1 = 2 is only an error if you evaluate one of the variables on the left hand side. There are none. 00:16:01 do ... <- []; always shortcuts 00:16:15 Warrigal: that's true 00:16:31 but <- is not quite lazy 00:16:31 huh, "let 1 = 2" works 00:16:32 ouch 00:16:46 it does check the pattern before continuing 00:17:20 ehird: actually you probably meant do (x:xs) <- [[]]; ... 00:17:34 nope 00:17:38 i was trying to get an error 00:17:39 :P 00:17:45 sure you did 00:18:01 let False = True works the same way, I believe. 00:18:13 (x:xs) <- [] does not actually put anything in x or xs 00:18:30 because there are no list elements to match against 00:18:35 exactly 00:18:45 no 00:18:48 but you said do blocks throw away non-matchers 00:19:07 i mean there is no list element to match the _whole_ of (x:xs) against 00:19:13 ah 00:19:22 thus you want <- [[]] 00:20:06 that could have given an error, except it actually gives a fail "match error" which is [] 00:21:02 so none of those give a real error 00:21:26 however, do ~(x:xs) <- [[]]; ... will give an error if x or xs is used 00:22:02 the ~ makes the pattern lazy 00:23:42 bye 00:23:48 -!- Mony has quit ("Hey Hoy let go !"). 00:41:16 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 00:43:04 -!- Corun has quit ("Leaving"). 01:15:10 -!- Corun has joined. 01:15:45 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 01:32:08 -!- Warrigal has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:39:22 -!- Warrigal has joined. 02:02:03 -!- Warrigal has quit (Remote closed the connection). 02:02:22 -!- Warrigal has joined. 02:09:35 -!- Warrigal has quit (Remote closed the connection). 02:10:01 -!- Warrigal has joined. 02:38:44 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 02:43:13 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 03:34:54 -!- olsner has joined. 03:53:22 -!- kwertii has joined. 04:46:22 -!- Asztal has joined. 05:33:44 This channel is now officially boring. Let's discuss artificial intelligence. 05:35:29 Fantasy: Eliezer Yudkowsky is right about AI destroying the world if we're not careful. 05:36:23 So, I read about EURISKO (Yudkowsky is also right about it being the most sophisticated self-modifying AI in existence), improve it, and eventually end up with an explosive self-modifying AI on my laptop. 05:36:48 That is, on a spare laptop that has no Internet connection. 05:37:07 But won't it get lonely? 05:37:14 I solve a Millennium Prize Problem with the AI, winning $1,000,000 and getting Yudkowsky's attention. 05:37:27 No, it'll be able to play with different parts of itself. 05:37:31 And I'll talk to it. 05:38:26 So, I send a copy of the AI to Yudkowsky, he agrees that it's easy to make safe for release, and we release it, and the Technological Singularity happens, and everybody's really happy. 05:38:31 This will happen over Christmas break. 06:33:06 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 07:18:25 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit. 07:18:45 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:18:30 http://www.formauri.es/personal/pgimeno/temp/esoteric/paintfuck/vn-fredkin.pfk 08:43:46 And at 2:14 AM (EST), August 29th, 1997, EURISKO (improved) will become self-aware, and instantaneously decide that humanity must be destroyed. 08:46:36 -!- Dewi has quit ("leaving"). 09:11:15 -!- kar8nga has joined. 09:19:44 -!- M0ny has joined. 09:20:16 plop 09:20:36 Yo 09:20:55 ça va ? 09:21:10 On fait aller, et toi? 09:21:20 idem 09:21:33 petit mal de tête au levée 09:23:00 err? 09:23:02 what= 09:23:04 ? 09:23:23 FRONCH 09:24:10 -!- kwertii has quit ("bye"). 09:25:35 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("You only need one wheel. Bikers are just greedy."). 09:28:53 -!- pgimeno has left (?). 09:47:08 -!- kar8nga has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 10:11:59 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 10:15:09 -!- sebbu has joined. 10:30:10 -!- Slereah has joined. 10:47:42 -!- Slereah- has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 10:54:09 -!- kar8nga has joined. 12:34:43 i don't understand french :< 12:35:50 héhé 12:36:31 -!- Judofyr has joined. 12:38:01 Let's make a French esolang, just to annoy oklopol 12:38:55 there is that one really crappy and stupid one 12:39:02 JUST LIKE FRENCH ALWAYS IS 12:39:04 wait 12:39:07 that was just stupid 12:39:11 anyway teach it 12:39:12 to me 12:39:12 now 12:39:24 OMELETTE DU FROMAGE 12:39:38 i understand the first word 12:39:48 i'm assuming the latter is either "gay" or "hobbit" 12:40:29 "du" is a preposition, i'm guessing "outside of, but still feeling as if not" 12:42:14 mdr Slereah 12:42:24 c'était dans Dexter ça XD 12:42:59 yeah, dexter is a pretty tight dancer 12:43:01 http://fr.youtube.com/watch?v=z_2V7g3jkVo 12:43:14 Dexter is a little genius 12:43:20 from a cartoon 12:43:24 o rly 12:44:07 no fake 12:44:20 well, really i know that only because "dexter" has become a normal english term 12:44:38 and it means ? 12:44:49 a pretty tight dancer ? 12:45:48 hmm. actually it's not from the show. 12:48:02 M0ny: yes very pretty 12:51:50 -!- Judofyr has quit. 13:00:54 -!- Corun has joined. 13:30:14 -!- Judofyr has joined. 13:36:21 -!- Slereah- has joined. 13:54:16 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 14:04:35 -!- kar8nga has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 14:04:42 -!- Corun has quit ("This computer has gone to sleep"). 14:09:01 -!- Slereah has joined. 14:20:57 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 14:26:37 -!- Slereah- has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 14:36:41 -!- Slereah- has joined. 14:37:31 -!- LolaCL has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 14:37:59 -!- LolaCL has joined. 14:42:49 -!- Dewi has joined. 14:45:56 -!- LolaCL has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 14:47:02 -!- LolaCL has joined. 14:48:34 -!- ehird has set topic: Abstraction is not clever. -- reddit comment | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric. 14:53:47 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 14:59:49 -!- kar8nga has joined. 15:01:26 -!- Slereah- has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:36:54 -!- MisterOrange has joined. 15:45:59 -!- Slereah- has joined. 15:51:58 -!- Corun has joined. 15:52:22 -!- Corun has quit (Client Quit). 15:52:49 -!- Corun has joined. 16:00:36 -!- oerjan has joined. 16:08:05 And I'll talk to it. 16:08:24 Yudkowsky claims even that is unsafe 16:10:10 and he has twice won in a simulated challenge to prove it 16:14:32 Yudkowsky's the Black Box Challenge guy, too? 16:16:34 what black box challenge? 16:20:16 http://yudkowsky.net/singularity/aibox 16:21:15 Close enough. 16:23:57 oh that thing 16:24:12 i'd like to see the retard who he convinced to get him out 16:24:20 i mean what the fuck 16:24:27 two of them 16:24:36 "talk for two hours, and don't press this button." 16:25:00 are the conversations public? 16:25:03 no 16:25:03 no 16:25:14 i like how oklopol and psygnisfive read yudowsky's other articles, e.g. mundane magic, and talk about how they're all awesome 16:25:18 whip out the ai box, oh that's just going too far 16:25:21 he's obviously an idiot 16:25:35 ehird: what's mundane magic? 16:25:42 oklopol: article of his linked a while back 16:25:50 http://www.overcomingbias.com/2008/10/mundane-magic.html 16:25:54 i'm not saying he's not right, i'm saying it's clear that experiment can't succeed 16:26:09 in a real life situation, yes, of course it could happen. 16:26:28 oklopol: i would say the conclusion of the experiment is that humans are way over-confident. no one believes they will let it out, still they do. 16:26:41 (well, some probably believe it) 16:26:52 ehird: that looks very boring, have i really read it and talked about it? 16:27:06 well, psygnisfive at least did 16:27:29 oerjan: i'm one of those over-confident ones. 16:27:31 oklopol: just because a random person on irc is incredulous to it doesn't mean it doesn't work. 16:27:36 yes, of course I think i'd be able to pass it 16:27:38 who doesn't? 16:27:56 but the arguments presented, and the mailing threads linked to, make me curious and not so dismissive 16:28:03 AI says, "You can talk for 2 hours in exchange for $20. I don't think that's a good deal." and then is quiet. 16:28:16 theory: he paypals $50 to them to say they let it out after a few hours and skips the test 16:28:16 XP 16:28:41 if the conversations aren't public, there's no reason to believe he didn't cheat 16:28:50 oklopol: yes, but there's no reason to believe he did 16:28:56 considering the mailing threads linked to 16:28:59 and the protocols outlined 16:29:06 i can't think of any non-cheating arguments for the ai guy 16:29:06 i mean 16:29:15 so yeah i think it's very probably he cheated. 16:29:22 oklopol: yudkowsky is a clever, rational, and honest guy on overcomingbias, etc 16:29:31 why would he suddenly cheat, even though -nobody- believes hima nyway? 16:29:31 that's definitely something where only "outside the box" things work 16:29:41 oklopol: how can he cheat? 16:29:52 the other person declares whether he won, after all 16:30:04 i dunno, and i don't have to answer you, the onus is on him. 16:30:20 that would be so simple to prove, yet he doesn't 16:30:42 oklopol: don't you think he might have a reason? 16:30:55 being so dismissive and ignoring arguments is not a sign of great reason... 16:31:07 urr? 16:31:40 yeah there probably is a reason, probably he didn't want people to see he cheated 16:31:57 hm i see. 16:32:17 "18:30… ehird: being so dismissive and ignoring arguments is not a sign of great reason..." <<< was this about me? i don't see the relevance 16:32:25 i didn't say i'm a great reasoner 16:32:25 so what we need is a test person who is not only confident, but also unbribable 16:32:26 oklopol: so explain why he'd cheat when he knows nobody believes him anyway, and he has nothing to gain from cheating, and why didn't the participants, who disbelieved him just as much as you, reveal him, and why would he suddenly cheat after being an honest, rational guy everywhere else? 16:32:31 answer that 16:32:59 ehird: that's a great mystery. 16:33:14 oklopol: applying occam's razor, i'm inclined to believe he doesn't cheat over your unfounded, unjustified word 16:33:51 ehird: w/e; anyway, would be nice to see whether that actually works, psygnis and ihope tried it once, methinks 16:34:05 but that didn't work somehow 16:34:06 oklopol: but that was retarded 16:34:07 iirc 16:34:10 was it now 16:34:20 why? 16:34:29 yudkowsky's whole life is devoted to ai research 16:34:34 and he obviously has a trick to it 16:34:48 yeah, that's another possible reason for not showing the conversations 16:34:49 psygnisfive vs ihope to prove whether it can be done is stupid 16:35:00 because it's just not even relevant 16:35:10 yeah i'm not saying they could've shown it *doesn't* work 16:35:16 they could've shown it works 16:35:21 well, yes 16:35:28 which would've been pretty awesome 16:35:33 but convincing psygnisfive of anything is pretty hard :-P 16:35:36 i'd definitely like to see whether that works 16:36:00 oklopol: of course, if presented with a log from yudkowsky you'd probably say "that was retarded, i wouldn't fall for that" 16:36:02 i mean, who wouldn't 16:36:46 dunno. maybe people who are idiots, and don't know it? 16:36:53 i meant 16:36:56 *mean 16:36:59 the opposite :) 16:37:03 wait 16:37:03 i'm an idiot and i know it 16:37:03 :D 16:37:13 wait wait this is getting too complicated for me ;) 16:37:35 who wouldn't, err, the people who wouldn't are exactly those who are stupid and know it 16:37:55 so yeah, the minority you're in 16:38:19 MINORITIES? 16:38:21 WHERE? 16:38:34 MINORS? 16:38:35 WHERE? 16:39:10 maybe i should contact yudkowsky and ask for him to do the experiment with me 16:39:30 oklopol: read the page again 16:39:39 i didn't read the page 16:39:39 specifically 16:39:46 GET 'EM BOYS 16:39:58 anyway 16:40:02 oklopol: 16:40:02 my original point about this 16:40:07 oklopol: oklopol oklopol 16:40:08 isn't exactly that i don't believe in that 16:40:09 it's more 16:40:16 that it doesn't really matter whether i do 16:40:19 because who gives a fuck 16:40:27 [[Currently, my policy is that I only run the test with people who are actually advocating that an AI Box be used to contain transhuman AI as part of their take on Singularity strategy, and who say they cannot imagine how even a transhuman AI would be able to persuade them.]] 16:40:49 what might be interesting would be things that may want a human to let the ai out. 16:40:57 and then proof of those 16:41:20 ehird: well okay, then it may well be i'm qualified for the test in the future 16:41:27 I advocate that an AI Box be used to contain transhuman AI as part of my take on Singularity strategy, and say that I cannot imagine how even a transhuman AI would be able to persuade me if I'm offere $100 not to be persuaded. 16:42:09 Warrigal: you are not a well-known ai researcher specializing in singularity :P 16:43:00 indeed, i assumed that was required 16:43:06 otherwise i'm already qualified too 16:44:26 was the experiment done on people who actually did it because they didn't believe it would work both times? 16:44:30 and no i won't read the page. 16:44:41 then i won't tell you 16:44:41 :P 16:45:02 k 16:45:26 but 16:45:27 yes 16:45:57 that makes it pretty much impossible to believe 16:46:51 anyway that's definitely a phenomenon that should be studied further 16:47:35 actually, for certain things believing strongly you will never do it is a sign that you might subconsciously have a desire to do so... 16:48:16 and might snap under the right circumstances 16:48:18 i don't really believe in the subconscious. 16:48:28 but if that's true, would be awesome to see it 16:48:42 * oklopol needs to get famous, fast 16:48:45 oerjan: homophobia :p 16:49:09 yeah that's a well-known example 16:49:31 your MOM is a well-known example 16:49:34 o h s n a p 16:49:36 yes, a well-known example of something that's only true in movies made for idiots 16:50:19 homophobic people find gayness distracting, and thus are less likely to turn gay. 16:50:43 What about people afraid of death? 16:50:50 haha 16:50:51 oklopol: gayness distracting, what 16:50:51 XD 16:51:06 * oerjan watches as both he and oklopol are about to be crushed by giant following [citation needed] signs 16:51:07 ehird: distracting maybe have been a bad choice of words :D 16:51:15 *falling 16:51:18 oerjan: i'm just going by experience 16:51:26 ehird: i mean like, "not nice" :D 16:51:37 brb 16:51:37 "distracting" actually gave quite a different connotation. 16:51:38 One theory is that Yudkowsky convinces the gatekeeper that they should "let him out" because that will encourage friendly AI research. 16:51:47 Warrigal: hahah 16:51:47 XD 16:52:04 Warrigal: that would be cheating 16:52:14 yo 16:52:16 I am often distracted by gay sex 16:52:23 you ALL HAVE NEW COLOURS NOW 16:52:25 oklopol you are blue 16:52:27 slereah you are orange 16:52:30 COLLOQUY THEMES WOO 16:52:36 Yay : 16:52:37 :D 16:52:44 NEVER HAVE I BEEN MORE ANGRY OR ORANGE 16:52:45 hmm this thing needs more line spacing 16:52:51 oklopol: which rule prohibits it? 16:52:56 that's why i can't believe it, everything i can think of, and apparently everything other people can speculate, is pretty much cheating. it only works *in an experiment* 16:53:04 -!- comexk has joined. 16:53:10 Warrigal: nothing. it's just that beats the point of the whole experiment. 16:53:28 hi comex 16:53:30 "let me out so this test works! here's why that's good for you" 16:54:24 -!- comex has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:54:25 oklopol: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Psychological_projection 16:54:46 okay so 16:54:47 poop 16:54:51 you no longer have colours 16:54:51 because 16:54:53 i hate your lifes 16:54:56 ehird: but 16:54:59 i like blue 16:55:04 yeah well 16:55:05 oh no i'm all black 16:55:06 eat your butts. 16:55:08 oerjan: no. 16:55:09 orange. 16:55:24 oerjan: i don't believe in that either 16:55:25 but you said i didn't have color 16:55:30 complete bullcrap 16:55:31 -!- Judofyr has quit. 16:56:27 To understand the process, consider a person in a couple who has thoughts of infidelity. Instead of dealing with these undesirable thoughts consciously, he or she subconsciously projects these feelings onto the other person, and begins to think that the other has thoughts of infidelity and may be having an affair. <<< seriously, i hate this movie already 16:56:42 oklopol: i predict that you will have a crisis one day that will prove to you it's true 16:56:45 that simply doesn't happen to sane people 16:57:01 "crisis"? 16:57:15 oklopol: but nobody other than you is sane in your world 16:57:15 oklopol: it is not normal to be perfectly sane all of your life 16:57:33 oerjan: no it's not. 16:57:40 err 16:57:44 yes it is, i mean 16:57:45 ... 16:57:54 god language is hard today. 16:58:18 well. 16:58:48 oklopol: freudian slip. deep inside you believe it >:D 16:58:52 actually that was because i knew you'd say that, and i only took a quick glance at the sentence to make sure i guessed right, now that we're on the topic of psychology. 16:58:58 ok i'll stop now 16:58:58 oerjan: no. ^ 16:59:17 heh :D 16:59:41 freudian slips work. when you're thinking about something else than you're saying, these things may mix up. 17:00:18 hi 17:00:20 what the fuck 17:00:22 that is not the style i selected 17:00:37 Fuck it, I'm switching to limechat. <3 17:01:46 also, oerjan, i don't seriously think it's unhealthy not to be logical all the time. or, to be more exact, explicitly know exactly what logic your actions are based on. 17:02:14 oklopol: argh, triple negation 17:02:24 that doesn't make it okay to do clearly insane things, though. 17:02:46 YES IT IS 17:02:54 * oerjan runs after oklopol with a chainsaw 17:02:59 and doing something like accusing someone of infidelity without any concrete proof is insane. 17:03:03 no one would do that. 17:03:16 oerjan: :D 17:06:16 * oklopol tries to read rest of article 17:06:41 i'm pretty sure i'd get a heart attack if i tried to study psychology 17:08:01 well, okay, most of the lolly stuff seems to have come from freud 17:08:20 * oklopol noticed name and closed article 17:09:15 oerjan: can you juggle chainsaws? 17:09:21 i want something to drink 17:09:38 i can barely juggle plastic balls 17:09:43 how many? 17:09:53 two, maybe 17:09:59 i can only do 3 plus some tricks 17:10:00 "plastic" "balls" 17:10:07 and well 4, but that's the same as 2 17:10:18 * oklopol also has a unicycle. 17:10:34 ehird: darn i put that "plastic" there precisely to _avoid_ your comments :D 17:10:50 oerjan: "plastic" 17:10:52 i tried learning 5 when i was a kid, but that didn't work 17:11:07 could probably learn that in a few days now, maybe i should allocate the time somewhere 17:11:53 it took me weeks to learn 3 balls when i was about ehird's age 17:12:12 "learn" 17:12:14 "3" "balls 17:12:15 " 17:12:38 ;;;;;;) 17:12:46 ballllllz 17:13:05 anyway point is, multiple weeks back then, now i've seen my friends learn the skill in a few days 17:13:11 "skill" 17:13:54 "ehird" 17:14:34 and - how nice of my friends - they've all learned it at a different time, so i've been able to see how the motoric skills have developed automatically over time, many people my age can pretty much just take the balls and start juggling, while kids just can't see how it works 17:14:48 "friends" 17:15:14 * oklopol finds the brain fascinating 17:15:23 * oklopol licks the brain 17:15:30 -!- kar8nga has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:15:31 "brain" 17:15:43 "17:15" 17:15:44 ;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;;) 17:15:54 i should go buy something to drink 17:15:58 "drink" 17:16:05 why don't you keep this up while i'm going? 17:16:07 customer11529.pool1.Newcastle-HTL0207-BAS0001.orangehomedsl.co.uk 17:16:11 that hostname is way too revealing 17:16:16 although i'm not even in newcastle 17:16:17 lol 17:16:17 "up" 17:16:25 ""up"" 17:16:36 ehird: you're in a pool? 17:16:41 no 17:16:43 "pool" 17:16:45 yes 17:17:03 you're in an orange? 17:17:15 """" 17:17:32 "Abstraction is not clever." <<< what's teh context 17:17:35 """""" 17:17:38 "teh" 17:18:02 yes 17:18:09 So, should we "practice putting 'quotation marks' around 'things'"? 17:18:09 oklopol: reddit 17:18:09 :P 17:18:23 ehird: ohhh thanks :D 17:18:25 it could be either someone dissing abstraction, or someone considering it too basic 17:18:50 but the latter would not be stupid enough for reddit i guess 17:18:51 oerjan: sort of both. 17:18:54 it was a stupid comment 17:18:57 also it can be either about abstraction, or some specific instance of it 17:19:03 17:18 <#haskell> haskell-newbie: Hello, is there some kind soul who wont mind helping a newbie in a project hes doing? 17:19:07 why do people use non-names like that 17:19:08 i mean 17:19:09 if it's the latter, it's a poetic way to say it, but possible 17:19:09 in 5 years 17:19:11 are we gonna like say 17:19:20 yeah i was just zygomorphic prehistomimes up the monad 17:19:31 -!- oerjan has changed nick to human. 17:19:35 ehird: no idea 17:19:38 -!- human has changed nick to oerjan. 17:19:56 -!- ehird has changed nick to fuzz. 17:20:00 used 17:20:00 :D 17:20:01 i accidentally a sygomorphic prehistomorphism 17:20:05 -!- fuzz has changed nick to zuff. 17:20:06 *zygo 17:20:12 Note to self: Internet Explorer is not very good at rendering 3 megabytes of text. 17:20:16 i liek this name 17:20:29 (How many fantasy novels is that, again?) 17:20:59 Nothing is good at rendering 3MB of text, really. 17:21:17 oklopol : YOU ACCIDENTALLY WHAT? 17:21:20 Slereah-: vi(1) is 17:21:30 Slereah-: i corrected my typo already 17:21:32 *rimshot* 17:21:35 oklopol: so, uh, the whole zygomorphic prehistomorphism? 17:21:37 :\ 17:21:44 tha's bad 17:21:45 zuff: yeah, there i was minding my own business 17:21:55 you know, monading it up 17:21:56 and then 17:22:06 i accidentally the whole zygomorphic prehistomorphism 17:22:16 Heh. 17:22:16 "capable of division into symmetrical halves by only one longitudinal plane passing through the axis" 17:22:56 oerjan: is that the definition of one of these wordphisms? 17:23:03 zygomorphic 17:23:14 "bilaterally symmetric" is simpler though 17:23:19 "passing through the axis" 17:23:27 liek how 17:23:44 than the longer definition 17:23:46 -!- zuff has changed nick to ehird. 17:24:13 but prehistomorphism appears to be vacant 17:24:14 -!- ehird has changed nick to zuff. 17:24:19 oerjan: exaplane. 17:24:40 whaddyamean passing through the axis 17:24:57 ah histomorphism has something haskell as its first hit 17:25:12 oklopol: you know what bilaterally symmetric is, right? 17:25:20 *al 17:26:13 http://www.onlineordbog.dk/wordnet/no/17/zygomorphic.php 17:26:15 err. it means symmetric 17:26:29 don't ask me what the axis does there 17:26:32 bilateral adds that it's symmetric around a plane 17:26:34 okay. 17:26:41 well i was just wondering what that added to it. 17:26:56 "symmetric around" 17:26:59 hmm. 17:27:00 indeed i don't see why there needs to be an axis 17:27:37 also ehird actually talked about a "prehistomeme" 17:27:49 * AnMaster looks around 17:27:51 "A Shock Level measures the high-tech concepts you can contemplate without being impressed, frightened, blindly enthusiastic - without exhibiting future shock." 17:27:53 plz translate 17:28:01 "SL2: Medical immortality, interplanetary exploration, major genetic engineering, and new ("alien") cultures." 17:28:06 prehistomime actually 17:28:16 So if I'm blindly enthusiastic about interplanetary exploration, does that mean I'm below shock level 2? 17:28:22 shit, AnMaster isn't ignored on limechat 17:28:48 that's obviously a neanderthal using body language only 17:29:07 ;) 17:29:17 does "histo" have to do with history? 17:29:25 ah 17:29:26 body 17:29:33 huh? 17:29:46 the body language thing was for "mime" 17:29:55 yes 17:30:01 but i guess it fits 17:30:09 no wait 17:30:10 but i'm talking about the "histo-", seems to mean body tissue 17:30:21 "From Greek histos , web" 17:30:37 err oh 17:30:39 yeah okay 17:30:53 so that's a medical reuse 17:31:06 yes 17:31:17 so, from now one, i'm browsing the histos 17:31:22 *on 17:31:37 pangeohistos 17:31:46 :D 17:32:51 er, "histos (Greek: "tissue"), " 17:32:56 hmm 17:33:02 apparently the histos does not agree with itself 17:33:06 os x looks so much more cooler when you invert it 17:33:20 oerjan: that's internet oh right. 17:33:32 *alright maybe 17:34:29 i should go now 17:34:36 see you @ later tiems -> 17:34:40 ah a better source 17:34:47 ""study of organic tissues," 1847, from Gk. histos "warp, web," lit. "that which causes to stand," from histasthai "to stand," from PIE *sta- "to stand" (see stet). Taken by 19c. medical writers as the best Gk. root from which to form terminology for "tissue." 17:35:03 (histology) 17:36:14 shit, AnMaster isn't ignored on limechat <-- ? 17:36:21 oh hi eh 17:36:23 ehird* 17:36:27 i'm not ehird 17:36:37 zuff, ok, if you say so 17:36:45 AnMaster: same bouncer. 17:36:48 zuff, then why do you have ehird as both ident and realname? 17:36:52 * [zuff] (n=ehird@eso-std.org): ehird 17:36:52 bouncer issues 17:36:54 ah ohm 17:36:59 * [ais523] (n=ais523@eso-std.org): (this is obviously not my real name) 17:37:03 yes, but 17:37:05 didn't cause an issue for him ;P 17:37:07 i just came in here today 17:37:11 so new bouncer account 17:37:13 from ehird 17:37:13 so 17:37:19 -> he didn't configure it right 17:37:36 yeah that stupid ehird never gets things right 17:37:57 zuff, so where is ehird, and why "* ehird is now known as fuzz" "* fuzz is now known as zuff" :P 17:37:58 * AnMaster slaps zuff around with some missing humor 17:38:13 AnMaster: I'm missing humour? what. 17:38:17 that's rich coming from you 17:38:18 zuff, no I am 17:38:21 ... 17:38:22 duh 17:38:24 AnMaster: duh, the nick was obviously misconfigured too 17:38:28 wow, was that meant to be a joke? 17:38:30 :| 17:38:30 oerjan, ah of course 17:38:34 that was awful. 17:38:36 and what oerjan said. 17:38:37 oerjan, that explains it 17:38:52 zuff, right, so what are you interested in? what eso langs? 17:39:07 i'm pretty new to them, ehird told me about them yesterday. 17:39:13 ah 17:39:22 how comes he gave you a bnc that quickly hm? 17:39:27 maybe I should ask him for one too 17:39:28 :) 17:39:28 'cuz we're friends? :| 17:39:32 i am a great fan of cfunge 17:39:32 oh ok 17:39:35 it's nice and fast 17:39:37 befunge is a nice language 17:39:40 zuff, hah 17:39:57 clearly insane babbling madness 17:40:06 17:40:07 well I think that is sarcasm and/or irony. I would definitely say befunge98 is rather bloated 17:40:23 TODAY ON "ANMASTER ANALYZES TEXT TO SEE IF IT IS A JOKE" 17:40:32 zuff, I know it is a joke 17:40:46 "well I think that is sarcasm and/or irony" 17:40:46 I just don't want to scare you by realizing it right away :P 17:40:51 17:40:59 ummmm 17:41:04 17:41:12 )) 17:41:19 no, those are parenthei 17:41:23 yes 17:41:23 a sufficiently analyzed joke is equivalent to a yawn 17:41:31 oerjan, indeed. 17:42:18 "" 17:42:37 17:42:52 I believe that is valid, I'm not 100% sure 17:43:09

a is valid. 17:43:11 <100%> 17:43:14 right 17:43:16 17:43:17 17:43:24 there I think I closed all 17:43:28 except 17:43:35 ( is a parenthesis, [ is a bracket, { is a brace, < is half a quotation mark in some langauges. 17:44:39 no... 17:44:49 err no 17:44:55 Warrigal: ( = parenthesis, [ = square bracket, { = brace, < = bracket 17:44:57 so, almost right 17:45:00 ( is wax, [ is U turn, { is a embrace, < is angle 17:45:02 duh 17:45:04 just ask ais523 17:45:09 { curly bracket 17:45:13 AnMaster: ha ha ha. 17:45:17 :| 17:45:40 Oh, right, the standard INTERCAL naming system. 17:45:50 ) is wane, } is bracelet, and I don't remember what ] and > are. 17:45:55 ". 17:45:57 RABBIT! 17:46:03 I can't do it. 17:46:10 Is there no rabbit unicode char? 17:46:31 ] U turn back 17:46:32 dot below is an accent, isn't it? 17:46:43 > right angle 17:46:47 Warrigal, ^ 17:46:51 so it should be possible 17:47:36 or perhaps a hungarian " accent on a dot 17:47:54 hm 17:48:04 * oerjan doesn't know enough unicode to actually make any of those 17:48:45 '.' 17:48:58 When writing sentences that end in quotes, I tend to put the period under the quotation mark. 17:49:00 spark-dot-spark? 17:49:23 INTERCAL used to have dot and rabbit ears at the same time 17:49:25 Warrigal, rabbit 17:49:26 To make a rabbit 17:49:34 But that was back when it was in punch cards 17:49:37 Slereah-, yes I know 17:49:48 Slereah-, and ick can do it with back-space inserted iirc 17:49:53 like a literal backspace 17:50:10 pix 17:50:11 no it doesn't make a lot of sense to have backspace as an ASCII code but yes it exists 17:50:24 Slereah-, non-printable ASCII code 17:50:34 like \a is bell, or such 17:50:40 Hence "pix" and not "write it" 17:50:58 Slereah-, well emacs shows it as ^? 17:51:14 not ^H ? 17:51:32 Bell is ^G. 17:51:38 ^? is DEL, i thought 17:52:01 oerjan, well I guess my terminal messed up then 17:52:10 since I get ^[[3~ for Del 17:52:12 Have a table: http://www.asciitable.com/ 17:52:24 I have a table on my wall. 17:52:32 Two columns to the right of ? is DEL. 17:52:48 Warrigal: hey i was on that page 17:52:53 My table is prettyier, because 002-006 are pretty shapes 17:52:54 Two columns to the right of BS is H. 17:53:09 It is dark here. 17:53:13 I am likely to be eaten by a grue. 17:53:20 -!- oerjan has changed nick to grue. 17:53:25 crap 17:53:25 * grue eats zuff 17:53:30 "Groo Nickname is already in use." 17:53:30 -!- grue has changed nick to oerjan. 17:53:33 Fucking balls 17:53:55 Two columns to the right of RS is ^, so I guess RS is written as ^^. This also means that there's no good way to write ^, as it would be a ^ followed by RS. 17:54:17 actually it is very dark. 17:54:18 oerjan, ghost him! 17:54:22 ah 17:54:22 I can barely see. :D 17:54:23 wait 17:54:27 I misread that 17:54:50 Straw poll: should I put some lights on? 17:55:05 No. 17:55:08 zuff: no, don't scare the poor hungry grues 17:55:14 It would be better to use a second- or fourth-column character to mean shift by two columns. 17:55:15 Poll closed. 17:56:02 #, say. NUL is #@, SOH is #A, SUB is #Z, US is #_, etc., then DEL is #? and # is #c. 18:09:10 So. 18:09:11 Guys. 18:09:12 -!- Slereah has joined. 18:09:35 hm 18:09:41 snrf 18:09:50 why does INTERCAL keep the name ampersand for & 18:09:51 ? 18:10:00 Because it's already funny! 18:10:08 AnMaster: because they couldn't think of anything funnier 18:10:11 ah right 18:10:12 i _think_ the manual already explains that 18:10:15 makes sense 18:10:16 oerjan: it does. 18:10:17 It does 18:10:19 oerjan, I was looking in it 18:10:22 couldn't find it 18:10:25 * AnMaster greps 18:11:35 hrrm can't find it in Revamped Instruction Manual for C-INTERCAL (0.29) 18:11:36 It's in the appendix. 18:11:42 Or is it the other organs? 18:11:42 ls 18:11:49 Slereah, tonsile 18:11:51 err 18:11:52 spelling 18:11:53 Yeah, that one 18:12:43 huh in my copy of that I only see: texinfo internal error 18:12:44 -!- Slereah has set topic: Abstraction is not clever. -- reddit comment | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | You must be able to tell every INTERCAL joke to enter here.. 18:12:44 -_- 18:12:50 not odd I couldn't grepped 18:12:53 grep it* 18:13:15 argh 18:13:36 http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/intercal-man/tonsila.html 18:13:36 if i never leave, i don't have to do that, right? 18:13:51 since i will not have entered, i mean 18:13:52 oerjan : Damn you loophole exploiting man 18:14:03 "* Got any better ideas?" 18:14:20 -!- Slereah- has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 18:14:52 i exploited loopholes before i was born 18:14:58 "exploit" 18:14:59 "loopholes" 18:16:07 also i used paradoxes before i was conceived 18:16:29 hrrm 18:16:59 That's a time paradox :o 18:19:51 duh 18:20:22 Slereah: it's AnMaster's job to explain obvious jokes, not yours 18:20:53 Hey, I don't want illegal aliens to take the jobs of hard working americans 18:21:02 Even though I'm neither hard working or American 18:21:09 Slereah... stop stealing my job. 18:21:16 AnMaster: shut up, dirty swede 18:21:23 gb2/sweden 18:21:25 / 18:21:29 zuff, hey I showered only last week! 18:21:32 He alreadu is. 18:21:41 Slereah: he is in VIRTUAL AMERICAN SPACE 18:21:43 /kick AnMaster 18:22:00 By whom was created #esoteric? 18:22:03 #esoteric is american? i had the impression it was british 18:22:06 * AnMaster starts to sing the Internationale 18:22:18 AnMaster: dirty commie 18:22:26 or possibly some EU thing 18:22:27 oerjan: shut up, dirty norway...ian 18:22:37 FACTS ARE USELESS 18:22:44 zuff: i fart in your general direction 18:22:56 see, all foreigners are dirty 18:22:59 especially foreigners like ME 18:23:01 oerjan, yes, #esoteric has EU-bidrag 18:23:06 don't know English word for it 18:23:07 bidrag = DIRTY RAG 18:23:12 GTFO 18:23:14 no, more like money 18:23:24 so yes dirty 18:23:29 yeah this channel attracts bi's alright. 18:23:30 shut up commie 18:23:43 oerjan, can you translate it? 18:24:03 AnMaster: google.com/translate_t 18:24:29 ah 18:24:37 "EU-bidrag" -> "EU grants" 18:24:43 it seems reasonable too 18:24:48 the translations 18:24:50 huge grant 18:24:51 grants is a few letters away from GENITALS 18:25:00 all europeans are PERVERTS 18:25:22 yes #esoteric has an EU grant of 1.2 million euro / year 18:25:28 didn't you know? 18:25:34 How is that money invested? 18:25:40 that's about £100bn 18:25:51 zuff: :D 18:26:02 Slereah, no clue, ask ehird, I believe he stole most of it 18:26:11 would that be continental or american billions? 18:26:20 oh, and that's $googl 18:26:22 *googol 18:26:30 *goggles 18:26:34 THEY DO NOTHING 18:26:44 yep, that's the usd 18:26:45 zuff, wait, million = 1 000 000 in English is it? 18:26:52 AnMaster: yes 18:27:00 billion is either 10 mil or mil mil 18:27:01 right 18:27:02 it depends. 18:27:05 err, wait no 18:27:07 oh? odd 18:27:11 zuff: 1000 mil 18:27:15 oerjan: right 18:27:21 bil = 1k mil | mil mil 18:27:22 1000 mil = miljard in Swedish 18:27:35 Just like "milliard" in English, I imagine. 18:27:46 billion = 1000 miljarder iirc 18:27:49 not sure about that 18:27:57 I don't use such large numbers written out 18:27:59 :( 18:28:06 only in scientific notation 18:28:32 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 18:29:03 zuff, please write out 10^10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 fully expanded in numbers 18:29:10 k 18:29:11 ;P 18:29:11 1 18:29:12 0 18:29:13 0 18:29:15 0 18:29:17 0 18:29:19 0 18:29:19 oh no 18:29:21 0 18:29:23 0 18:29:25 0 18:29:26 not one number per line 18:29:28 AnMaster: your big mouth 18:29:28 0 18:29:30 0 18:29:32 0 18:29:34 0 18:29:35 oerjan, I didn't intend that 18:29:36 0 18:29:37 sigh 18:29:38 0 18:29:40 0 18:29:42 0 18:29:44 0 18:29:46 0 18:29:46 I'll help. 18:29:47 zuff, sorry for that, please stop? 18:29:48 0 18:29:50 0 18:29:52 0 18:29:54 0 18:29:56 0 18:29:57 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 18:29:58 0 18:30:00 0 18:30:02 0 18:30:04 0 18:30:06 0 18:30:08 0 18:30:10 AnMaster: i'm just being helpful, sheesh 18:30:12 0 18:30:14 ah, thank you warrigal 18:30:16 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 18:30:18 Actually, he makes a nice clock. 18:30:19 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 18:30:22 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 18:30:25 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 18:30:25 We can see visually when what was said. 18:30:26 that is true 18:30:28 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 18:30:31 0000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 18:30:34 9*^~&*!%&^%CARRIER LOST 18:30:36 err 18:30:38 NO CARRIER 18:30:39 Warrigal, hm I think the number is too large to write out fully 18:30:46 Warrigal, not sure about that 18:31:05 my computer locks up when I try to calculate it ;P 18:31:11 it is *probably* way too large 18:31:12 AnMaster: no shit? 18:31:23 Well, you need room for 10000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000 digits. 18:31:29 it's ten decillions or ten novemdecillions, anyway 18:31:48 If you memorized one digit per year, you'd probably finish before the heat death of the universe. 18:32:14 Warrigal, ah right 18:32:35 Warrigal, what about number of molecules to write it out right now? 18:32:47 assuming two atoms per number 18:33:18 oh wait, i didn't notice the 10^. AnMaster, you are insane. 18:33:19 digit, AnMaster 18:33:20 digit 18:33:59 zuff, right 18:34:05 oerjan, thank you 18:34:13 that is what I always wanted 18:34:27 i was afraid of that 18:34:51 oerjan, what? that I wanted to be acknowledged as insane? 18:35:00 This is about 10^10^20. At 1 digit per year, 10^20 years from the beginning of the universe will be... 18:35:24 oerjan, How else would I be able to win the IG Nobel price?!? 18:35:50 err Ig 18:36:00 AnMaster: that is not a requirement 18:36:01 ...in the Degenerate Era, after solar systems do not exist but before galaxies do not exist. 18:36:12 in fact being _too_ sane may be just as good 18:36:23 oerjan, ah 18:36:27 oerjan, good point 18:36:29 since then you might not recognize that your research is not 18:36:30 a bit too late now 18:37:55 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Graphical_timeline_from_Big_Bang_to_Heat_Death 18:38:00 So, where in there will everything be dead? 18:38:26 define "everything" 18:38:34 All intelligent things. 18:38:46 define intelligen 18:38:46 t 18:38:59 If our main energy source is protons, I guess that'll be at 160 on the timeline, or 10^10^(160/100) years from the beginning of the universe. 18:39:27 6.46721137 * 10^39 years. 18:39:28 Dude. 18:39:33 Warrigal: no way we'll last that long 18:39:39 where we = all intelligent life 18:39:42 "Proton" isn'the problem of enrgy source. 18:39:50 We're made of protons. 18:39:53 That assumes, of course, that our using protons as energy doesn't deplete protons significantly. 18:40:03 Well, yeah. 18:40:08 If they disintegrate, so do you 18:40:29 well I hope we can come up with a solution before then, it won't happen in my life time at least. Probably humans will be extinct way before then anyway 18:40:31 Also, it will be well before that. 18:40:39 Proton decay is an exponential drop 18:40:49 160 is only when everyone will be decayed 18:40:59 if we stay intelligent long enough, we can just transform into another form. maybe we can live on the surface of black holes 18:41:18 those will last a long time, right 18:41:21 I predict that intelligent life will disappear at around 110-115. 18:41:24 Okay, half of them will be gone after 150. 18:41:28 oerjan, err there are other issues with them 18:41:33 oerjan : No. 18:41:34 maybe less. 18:41:39 They last even less than protons. 18:41:42 oh 18:41:45 Warrigal, that is double logarithmic 18:41:52 IIRC, something like 10^100 years 18:42:04 Some time after 150, I mean. 18:42:07 Which is what the page says. 18:42:17 Warrigal, check the scale... 18:42:21 zuff: why will intelligent life disappear around 110-115? 18:42:48 Warrigal: Degenerate Era, I guess. Well, it might be a bit after 120. 18:42:50 AnMaster: I see "half of all protons have decayed", and to the left of it, some number above 150. 18:43:06 Warrigal, yes indeed 18:43:11 but also notice what the 150 means 18:43:28 that is 150 = 100*log(log(real_year)) 18:43:33 10^10^(150/100) years. 18:43:45 indeed 18:43:58 Around 10^31. 18:44:32 10^32-1 would be nicer, a perfect number for it 18:45:14 yes not same as 2^... 18:45:16 but still 18:45:39 So the Degenerate Era begins around 115, or 133,000,000,000,000 years. We're at 13,700,000,000 years now. 18:46:18 Who cares. I'll probably be a bunch of neutrinos and positrons by then. 18:48:41 Slereah: actually it says black holes last longer 18:48:54 And it'll probably be after the year 2066, which will be a pretty cool year, assuming 21st Century Fox is accurate. 18:49:45 Warrigal: everyone knows it's 2012 18:49:46 Why? 18:50:04 Slereah: new agers :P 18:50:06 21 dec 2012 18:50:14 What do you mean by "it"? 18:50:19 I said "why 2066" 18:50:22 oh 18:50:22 I know of 2012. 18:50:26 Warrigal: end of life 18:50:26 :P 18:50:26 I know crazy people. 18:50:30 Like waaaay crazy 18:50:33 2066 because 21st Century Fox takes place in that year. 18:50:42 "I believe in dragons" kinda crazy. 18:51:23 I know people who are friends with therians for some yet-to-be-adequately-explained reason. 18:52:00 I used to believe that other universes could cause our universe to follow *their* laws of physics. Or maybe I'm misremembering. 18:52:23 I do remember believing that Neopets really did exist *somewhere*. 18:52:36 THEY DON'T? :O 18:52:37 :P 18:55:40 Warrigal: it's not false, it's just unprovable :) 18:56:29 If not-X is falsifiable, what do you call X? Verifiable? 18:57:02 hm 18:57:10 Assuming so, it's certainly not falsifiable, but whether it *does* happen is greatly verifiable. 18:57:12 oerjan: ... which, for the sake of rationality and occam's razor, can be treated as false 18:58:23 * zuff notes that oerjan disagrees 18:58:24 zuff: heretic! 18:58:31 nice timing 18:58:34 If something is neither falsifiable nor verifiable, it's not scientific. 19:00:37 Warrigal: "the Co-NP-complete tautology problem" 19:01:33 hm wait 19:01:41 * oerjan is confused 19:01:57 that was the opposite of satisfiable, not falsifiable 19:02:01 I don't see what polynomial time has to do with this, but the concept is probably isomorphic. 19:02:16 obvious duality 19:02:59 I think I'm going to treat isomorphism as if it were a relation rather than a type of relation. 19:04:32 i is isomorphic to -i; the identity function is isomorphic to "it is given; Q.E.D."; rock, paper, and scissors are all isomorphic to each other; all numbers are isomorphic to 0, especially if they're very large, very composite numbers. 19:04:47 But no number except 0 is *completely* isomorphic to 0. 19:05:46 Warrigal: wat 19:06:24 Warrigal: it seems verifiable means something like that. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Verificationist 19:06:45 There are lots of isomorphisms mapping 60 to 0, because 60 is very composite. 19:07:58 Congruence modulo 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 10, 12, 15, 20, 30, and 60 all map betweek 60 and 0. 19:08:01 "This article needs additional citations for verification." yeah, right 19:08:55 1000000000000000000000000! is so isomorphic to 0 that you might as well just call it 0. :-P 19:12:24 -!- MisterOrange has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.4/2008102920]"). 19:28:48 anyone know of a 2D open source space turn based strategy game? I just felt an urge to play that. 19:29:15 either strategy or something similar, like strategy + exploring + colonization 19:29:48 stratego, explorer, colonization 19:29:53 i'm not sure why i said that. 19:30:56 oklopol: the acronym is sexcolon, so clearly it was a freudian slip 19:31:25 :D 19:31:27 well clearly 19:32:35 too bad it's not written colonyzation 19:33:48 I want a game that consists entirely of exploration. 19:34:14 And, you know, discovering things that are somehow useful. 19:35:12 i was thinking a game where you build fantasticcontraption-like spaceships and explore 2d space with them 19:35:18 gravity and all 19:35:18 hm 19:35:25 The Game of Live? 19:35:31 f 19:35:36 maybe get scored on how far you can get from your home planet and shit 19:35:42 but otherwise just exploration 19:35:44 Spore? 19:35:48 well 19:35:52 spore is nothing like that 19:35:53 what I meant was something like: 19:35:56 freeciv for space 19:35:57 game of life is nothing like that 19:35:59 if you see what I mean? 19:36:02 Spore has plenty of exploration 19:36:11 If you want, you can do just that 19:36:17 Slereah, open source? 19:36:23 don't forget that was in the original list 19:36:25 Slereah: yeah, sure, but it's nothing like my idea 19:36:35 i have no idea what you're talking about, AnMaster 19:36:40 it's like Warrigal's idea. 19:36:50 Also you, oklopol 19:36:56 I wasn't following the conversation 19:37:03 anyone know of a 2D open source space turn based strategy game? I just felt an urge to play that. 19:37:04 either strategy or something similar, like strategy + exploring + colonization 19:37:05 Slereah: of course you know what i'm talking about 19:37:07 I'm trying to find if there's an alternative to cremation/burial/SCIENCE 19:37:08 that was the original question 19:37:11 you addressed it directly 19:37:13 AnMaster: Why open source, pray tell? Are you going to be cheating by reading the source or something? 19:37:22 Free as in beer I could understand. 19:37:54 zuff, well it needs to run on linux 19:37:58 basically 19:38:02 wine is such a pain 19:38:04 in my experience 19:38:08 There are free-as-in-beer games that are closed source and work on linux. 19:38:18 Just not many, admittedly. 19:38:31 zuff, I can't think of any such, got any example? 19:38:42 I forget the name... loki games? Made them. 19:38:45 Ports of windows games, mostly. 19:38:47 * AnMaster googles 19:38:57 Closed 2002, apparently. 19:39:00 Heh. 19:39:14 hm 19:39:31 Most of their titles are for-pay; but I'm pretty sure I read about them making some free stuff 19:39:46 "Eric's Ultimate Solitaire" i listed on the wiki page. I think I played something called that back on Mac OS 7 once... 19:39:51 lol 19:40:05 deus ex was "in progress" XD 19:40:22 oh well 19:40:52 AnMaster: Code a game. :P 19:41:10 zuff, right anyway, can you think a game that is 1) something like the game freeciv, but takes place in space 2) runs on linux 3) is either free as in beer or free as in OSI 19:41:20 hm 19:41:21 nope. 19:41:33 zuff, I would if I could make up any good story lines or such 19:41:38 I always sucked at that 19:41:47 AnMaster: Games don't need good plots. 19:41:57 "You are in space. You have to find things and stuff. And use those things to do things." 19:42:07 zuff, I also suck at drawing 19:42:18 and really I wouldn't want ASCII interface for it 19:42:31 2D graphics probably 19:42:32 AnMaster: Make graphics like Asteroids or Space wars. 19:42:36 Vector line art ftw 19:42:55 zuff, well true it scales well, I mean not locked to fixed bitmap sizes ;P 19:42:56 i usually just do bals 19:42:57 *balls 19:43:05 oklopol, that sounds so dirty 19:43:06 ;P 19:43:16 AnMaster: hey, I'm the one who _makes_ the obvious dirty jokes 19:43:20 usually you just need to have a few kinds of objects 19:43:22 you're the one who doesn't get them 19:43:29 so why not just use a few different basic shapes 19:43:29 zuff, really? I thought it was ehird who did 19:43:33 and since he isn't here... 19:43:33 or colors 19:43:40 AnMaster: I killed ehird 19:43:49 oklopol, well, then what about making up game mechanics? 19:43:55 < oklopol> i was thinking a game where you build fantasticcontraption-like spaceships and explore 2d space with them 19:43:58 Perfect. 19:44:11 Warrigal, sounds fun yeah 19:44:22 AnMaster: Come up with something. 19:44:23 need some space battles too 19:44:25 that is it 19:44:34 zuff, then finding time to code it 19:44:50 also I hate GUI programming for some reason, always found backend much more fun 19:44:54 AnMaster: You seem to have adequate minutes to explain in detail your requirements for it then talk about how you couldn't make it and be rebutted. :P 19:44:58 but I guess I could use some language that made it easy 19:45:24 Also, if you're using C, just write a simple game loop thing on top of Allegro or SDL that renders the vector stuff to screen and handles moving it etc. 19:45:24 zuff, well I probably won't have time to make it soon, but maybe I'll start on it this xmas holiday 19:45:30 Then you could code without thinking of the gui. 19:45:36 or maybe I'll start learning haskell then 19:46:05 zuff, I wouldn't use C for it, since it would be turn based I guess 19:46:08 AnMaster: Oh lord. Please stick to the game. :P 19:46:25 * oerjan swats zuff -----### 19:46:27 zuff, actually I have planned beginning with haskell then 19:46:29 Warrigal: yes, it'd be pretty perfect, the problem is it's kinda complicated, because i want planets to actually consist of millions of tiny particles 19:46:30 err 19:46:34 grammar 19:46:34 AnMaster: no no no no no no no no >_< 19:46:43 ah yes 19:46:46 s/have/got/ 19:46:48 ;D 19:47:01 so it has to dynamically make larger blocks out of the particle heaps and so one 19:47:02 *on 19:47:15 That might be viable. 19:47:21 Use fractals. 19:47:28 oklopol, what do you plan for RAM requirement? 19:47:38 i don't think fractals are useful unless you have a very static system. 19:47:54 they might be useful for generating the space, but i don't think for actually running it 19:47:55 AnMaster: who cares about things like RAM? 19:47:57 oklopol, just make time a fractal too? 19:48:12 AnMaster: that works for a static animation. 19:48:15 zuff, someone who doesn't have a lot of it? 19:48:23 oklopol, ah hm right 19:48:25 AnMaster: how much ram have you got? 19:48:29 A planet is a pile of dirt. A pile of dirt is made of smaller piles of dirt. 19:48:30 zuff, 1.5 GB 19:48:33 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:48:34 AnMaster: i don't know how much ram i have 19:48:35 Sounds like a fractal to me. 19:48:43 AnMaster: 1GB here. 19:48:55 zuff, well, you have even less 19:49:00 Warrigal: umm. 19:49:03 And OS X isn't exactly light on the RAM consumption. Yet I have 20+ things open and it's smooth sailing. 19:49:03 I feel sorry for you 19:49:16 Warrigal: well yeah sure you can think of it like that, but i don't see the use 19:49:25 zuff, same, but if you want to store a planet as a list of billions of particles... 19:49:32 AnMaster: Did oklopol said billions? 19:49:34 *say 19:49:38 ok millions 19:49:45 but still 19:49:46 a lot 19:50:03 He did not say millions. 19:50:05 AnMaster: when a planet is sufficiently far away, it can be compressed 19:50:17 from a million particles into about ten basic shapes 19:50:22 hm true 19:50:33 ...of course you could go around space making sculptures... 19:50:43 oklopol, oh? 19:50:48 AnMaster: the idea is 19:50:56 also I assume all travel would be sub-light speed? 19:51:00 you're this little population of these weird aliens. 19:51:01 for maximum realism? 19:51:08 and you can pick up particles 19:51:11 who cares about speed 19:51:12 and build things out of them. 19:51:21 oklopol, hm 19:51:24 AnMaster: i don't see a need for that 19:52:08 In the computer world, it's easier to build things out of abstract concepts than to build them out of particles. 19:52:11 you'd fly around by building somekinda spaceships, there'd be certain materials that can be "burned" or something, and you could use them to shoot particles out the spaceship's ass to start flying, like a normal spaceship. 19:52:19 Warrigal, true 19:52:22 Warrigal: so? 19:52:51 Not having to simulate Newtonian dynamics is easier on the processor. 19:52:58 -!- comexk has changed nick to ehird. 19:53:00 oklopol, you mean like dilithium crystals? 19:53:13 and like, uh you reverse the, um, something to do it 19:53:19 polarity maybe 19:53:22 would fit well there 19:53:33 hey you could maybe make a tv show out of it 19:53:43 Warrigal: what's the alternative when you can build *anything*? 19:54:10 AnMaster: no i mean a particle that can blow up. 19:55:05 oklopol, hrrm 19:55:41 oklopol, oh right, would be something like, Uranium-238? 19:55:45 or 235 19:55:47 or whatever it is 19:56:15 AnMaster: i don't really care for a real world example of a similar substance 19:56:35 oklopol: kabloomium 19:56:36 but really anything that burns fast will do 19:56:59 like a match 19:57:09 oklopol: there's a grid, and shapes have positions on the grid. They're simple geometric shapes like squares and 45-degree right triangles. They have small amounts of state and have simple effects on their surroundings. 19:57:18 oklopol, ah 19:57:39 Warrigal: yeah, something like that 19:57:46 Warrigal, what about gravitation? 19:58:00 gravity would be something that only happens when particles are connected into a mass 19:58:09 in the simplified physics 19:58:30 also depending on how you define this... you could end up with a cellular automaton 19:58:44 not sure how you define that grid and interactions and such 19:58:45 AnMaster: no not really, because you need to optimize it every step of the way 19:58:54 oklopol, oh? 19:58:56 there needs to be abstraction going on all the time 19:58:59 by the program. 19:59:00 ah right 19:59:06 true 19:59:09 Gravitation isn't discrete, so it would have to be a modified version. 19:59:12 but yeah the rules, the laws of physics 19:59:17 oklopol, or you could just buy IBM Roadrunner 19:59:18 those are pretty much a ca 19:59:19 ;P 19:59:40 err, is that the supercomputer they're advertising now? 19:59:48 oklopol, isn't it the fastest one? 20:00:01 broke some "barrier" of flops iirc 20:00:06 like teraflops 20:00:09 or such 20:00:11 oh. 20:00:14 don't remember details 20:00:17 like a real supercomp okay 20:00:28 i thought the one they're selling for home use 20:00:31 "Roadrunner is a supercomputer built by IBM at the Los Alamos National Laboratory in New Mexico, USA. Currently the world's fastest computer, the US$133-million Roadrunner is designed for a peak performance of 1.7 petaflops, achieving 1.026 on May 25, 2008,[1][2][3] and to be the world's first TOP500 Linpack sustained 1.0 petaflops system. It is a one-of-a-kind supercomputer, built from commodity part 20:00:31 s, with many novel design features." 20:00:34 ok 20:00:36 petaflops 20:00:39 not teraflops 20:02:39 I tried to convert game of life rules into a wolfram 1d automaton: 20:02:42 000 001 010 011 100 101 110 111 20:02:42 0 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 20:02:45 Er. 20:02:48 -!- kar8nga has joined. 20:02:53 Did that indent arrive? 20:03:00 Yes. 20:03:02 Yes it did. 20:03:16 zuff, hm interesting 20:03:24 -!- sorear has left (?). 20:03:45 Wonder what # it is. 20:03:45 zuff, btw, what OS are you on? 20:03:50 AnMaster: OS X. Why? 20:04:01 just wondering. 20:04:09 I see. 20:04:15 ^ don't 20:04:21 it's an interesting OS 20:04:39 I see. 20:04:41 ^ don't 20:04:45 zuff: 8+32+64 = 104 20:04:54 like most OS it has some really good ideas and a few bad. 20:05:00 the bundle thing is very nice 20:05:05 oerjan: Is it TC? :P 20:05:17 I dislike the bit about it being tied to Apple hardware 20:05:31 AnMaster: Apple is a hardware company, except its hardware only sells because of its software. 20:05:35 and that you can't find settings for everything easily always. 20:05:40 but yes it has some really good ideas 20:05:48 "everything easily always" 20:05:51 Stunning sentence combination there 20:05:58 zuff: only 110 is known to be TC i think (and its equivalents, 104 is not one) 20:06:04 oerjan: 30 is 20:06:07 zuff, sorry for the bad grammar 20:06:17 zuff: has it been proved? 20:06:22 oerjan: I think so. 20:07:05 zuff: wp does not say so 20:07:53 nor does mathworld 20:07:54 It obviously is. :P 20:08:17 it's that class 4 type, i guess. but that is no proof, just wolfram's hypothesis 20:08:55 ah. 20:09:00 I do not trust wolfram :P 20:09:01 Just ask ais523. 20:09:12 ais523 is the guy to prove Wolfram's hypothesises. 20:09:45 the picture of 104 looks boring, dies out immediately 20:09:52 Heh. 20:10:23 oerjan: just like in gol 20:10:43 actually that's just because the pictures start with a single cell and the rule always requires at least 2 20:10:52 yes 20:10:54 You mean there are Wolfram rules whose TC-ness is unknown? 20:11:01 Warrigal: yes. 20:11:16 Wow. 20:11:37 i assume 30 is one 20:17:27 oerjan: 104 is boring 20:17:29 just produces lines 20:19:05 zuff: 8+32+64 = 104 <-- how does that work? 20:19:13 binary 20:19:14 brb 20:19:29 well duh 20:19:31 I mean 20:19:35 000 001 010 011 100 101 110 111 20:19:35 0 0 0 1 0 1 1 0 20:19:36 -> 20:19:39 zuff: 8+32+64 = 104 20:19:44 * AnMaster tries to figure out 20:20:10 011 is the 8s place, 101 is the 32s place, 110 is the 64s place. 20:20:21 hm 20:20:40 what about 100 and such? 20:21:01 you sum the ones that give 1 20:21:03 aha 20:21:06 -!- sebbu has joined. 20:21:41 oerjan, wouldn't it be possible to construct other ones with the same numbers? 20:22:01 8| 20:22:02 or if you write it in the order 111 110 101 100 011 010 001 000, then you just take the bits below as the binary representation 20:22:19 so binary 01101000 = 104 20:22:21 also 101 (base 2) is 5? not 32 20:22:25 oh well 20:22:32 ....wut 20:22:34 yeah 2^ 20:22:44 oh 20:22:55 thazz what he meant 20:22:58 right 20:22:59 that works 20:23:19 as long as you have 3->1 mapping 20:23:31 it is unique isn't it? 20:23:49 zuff: 104 seems to be able to produce something else than vertical lines, but more rarely and which eventually dies out in my first tries 20:23:56 -!- kar8nga has left (?). 20:24:01 AnMaster: of course 20:24:08 right 20:24:20 oerjan, what about 2->1 mappings? 20:24:29 AnMaster: lul? 20:24:35 is binary new to you :P 20:24:35 well then you would presumably use 11 10 01 00 20:24:40 oklopol, no 20:24:44 oerjan, indeed 20:24:48 I was just wondering 20:24:52 if they were any interesting 20:25:04 AnMaster: those are boolean binary operators 20:25:09 all of them 20:25:14 oh right 20:25:34 oerjan, so 4->1 or 5->2? 20:25:45 might not make a lot of sense 20:25:46 ..? 20:25:46 i went through and checked once. none are really interesting, the most hard to predict are xor and its dual 20:26:02 oerjan, hm nxor? 20:26:04 AnMaster: you'd usually assume -> 1 anyhow 20:26:20 equivalence, not sure if it has an abbreviation 20:26:25 oerjan, well what if I assume -> 2, probably a bully automaton(?) 20:26:50 AnMaster: but then you'd double the field size each step 20:27:08 oerjan: what's wrong with that? 20:27:11 oerjan, fun, hope you got enough ram 20:27:11 i mean the table says what one cell becomes, given its ancestor neighborhood 20:27:16 i think it's pretty cool 20:27:29 hm maybe something fractal comes out 20:27:30 oerjan, so you insert extra cells, like the expanding universe 20:27:41 I think there is an interesting analogy there 20:27:42 :D 20:28:09 also I suggest using ternary instead of binary 20:28:11 much more fun 20:28:54 oerjan, don't you agree? 20:28:58 ternary is fun 20:29:30 Ternary is for terrible languages. 20:29:51 AnMaster: well sure you can do that 20:30:00 Slereah, well ternary cellular automatons would be fun 20:30:25 like ternary game of life: alive, on life support, dead 20:30:26 the wolfram scheme with 3 cells binary is just the simlest case that gives interesting automata, i guess 20:30:29 :D 20:30:30 Doesn't it already exist? 20:30:53 there are lots of life variations 20:31:05 hey was the joke THAT bad or what? 20:31:18 Is tere a GAME OF DEAT? 20:31:23 Fuck 20:31:29 My keyboard. 20:31:32 game of life support? 20:31:40 Wireless keyboards are shitty. 20:31:44 They drain batteries. 20:32:05 Slereah, you want one that can be recharged then 20:32:07 or something 20:32:15 also I use a old PS/2 keyboard 20:32:17 works perfectly 20:32:25 an old* 20:32:28 I want one with a wire, AnMaster 20:32:37 Slereah, PS/2 or USB? 20:32:40 But they didn't have any keyboard with a 1.8m wire 20:32:43 PS/2 is nicer :) 20:32:44 USB. 20:32:48 AnMaster: yeah then you can make paramedic gliders that bring other gliders back to life! 20:32:56 Heh. 20:32:59 Cute. 20:33:00 oklopol, haha 20:33:14 Slereah, I would say my keyboard cable is like 1.7 meters or so 20:33:15 also evil thugs that beat gliders up 20:33:19 that is my guess 20:33:24 -!- Corun has quit ("Leaving"). 20:33:28 TEN CENTIMETERS NOT ENOUGH 20:33:37 Slereah, well it is PS/2 20:33:39 oklopol : That would be THE MOST DANGEROUS GAME 20:33:44 for usb you can get longer cables 20:33:49 ... 20:33:50 Slereah, I got an usb extension cable here 20:33:57 Longer cables for a wireless keyboard? 20:34:02 you can make it like 3 meters 20:34:07 I cannot wrap my mind around such a concept! 20:34:07 Slereah, no for usb keyboard... 20:34:08 duh 20:34:26 I want one with a wire, AnMaster 20:34:35 USB. 20:34:42 But they didn't have any keyboard with a 1.8m wire 20:34:52 for usb you can get longer cables Slereah, I got an usb extension cable here 20:34:54 Slereah, duh 20:37:54 PS/2 is useless and obsolete. 20:38:32 * zuff becomes gradually more attached to this moniker 20:39:32 everything is useless and obsolete 20:39:49 Except ham. 20:40:26 hammer 20:40:46 Bacon. 20:44:47 Any live cell with fewer than two live neighbours goes on life support. 20:44:47 Any live cell with more than three live or life supported neighbours dies. 20:44:48 Any live cell with two or three live or life supported neighbours lives. 20:44:50 Any tile with exactly three live neighbours cells is populated with a living cell. 20:44:52 Any cell on life support with fewer than two live neighbours dies. 20:44:54 Any cell on life support with more than three live or life supported neighbours dies. 20:44:56 Any cell on life support with two or three live neighbours becomes living. 20:44:58 ^ game of life and life support 20:45:05 Heh. 20:45:12 Life supported cells are reccomended to be repeesented as the colour inbetween live and dead 20:45:38 oklopol: implement it. 20:46:07 I wonder if MCell could do that. 20:46:16 "The catterpillar has emerged from its coccoon, as a shark, with a gun for its mouth" 20:46:36 zuff: never 20:46:48 Fine, I'll implement it. 20:46:54 oklopol: got my minigame library? 20:47:07 i don't got anything. 20:47:18 oklopol: i gave it to you months ago, c'mon, you must have it 20:47:21 you made pong in it :P 20:47:23 :P 20:47:28 yeah i have it *comeshwew* 20:47:30 ... 20:47:39 slight typo there. 20:47:41 *somewhere 20:47:45 So Life, except life -> support and support -> death occur where death would occur, support -> life occurs where survival would occur, and death -> life occurs where birth would occur? 20:47:49 find it and vjn.fi/pb it :P 20:47:50 -!- nice_ has joined. 20:48:09 Warrigal: There are some unchanged rules. 20:48:11 And for certain ones of those, support counts as life, and for others, it doesn't? 20:48:31 The theory is that every cell needs healthy neighbours to survive. 20:48:35 Oh, right. 20:48:40 And overpopulation is overpopulation healthy or not. 20:49:00 Ditto with the right population, although that might need tweaking. 20:49:09 Life support is just: have conditions improved, stayed the same, or worsened? 20:49:15 If the first, it revives. Otherwise, it dies. 20:49:34 * zuff walks through a glider in it manually 20:52:33 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Nick collision from services.). 20:52:38 -!- nice_ has changed nick to KingOfKarlsruhe. 20:52:46 Eh, it's too tedious. 20:53:17 I don't think a glider will glide. 20:53:29 It will, it's right in the name! 20:53:39 Unless you mean like 20:53:45 .#. 20:53:47 ..# 20:53:50 ### 20:54:01 Is that the glider? I forgot. 20:54:06 yeah 20:54:07 Yep. 20:54:11 that's the glider 20:54:12 -!- ehird has quit (Nick collision from services.). 20:54:25 I know like three Life thingamagig. 20:54:37 The three basic groups, really. 20:54:37 Or the lesser-known phase: 20:54:39 #.. 20:54:40 .## 20:54:43 ##. 20:54:46 yeah 20:54:52 A block, an oscillator and a spaceship. 20:54:54 -!- comex has joined. 20:55:03 Well, there's also guns, but they're too big to remember like that 20:55:43 I know of a few still lifes, possibly more than one oscillator, and the glider and [LMH]WSS. 20:55:45 -!- comex has changed nick to zzuf. 20:55:48 -!- zzuf has changed nick to comex. 20:55:58 they're not that hard to remember if you understand how they work 20:56:06 Actually, I know of infinitely many still lifes. 20:56:15 still life? 20:56:26 you mean, an object that is immortal, just sits around 20:56:30 Warrigal : Connected still life? 20:56:42 Yep. 20:56:52 HOW! 20:57:31 err, just do like 20:57:32 oo 20:57:34 _oo 20:57:36 __oo 20:57:38 etc 20:57:43 oh right 20:57:48 Oh. 20:57:54 * oklopol forgot the rules! 20:57:56 :P 20:58:02 Rule 34 bitch 20:58:19 I wonder what the game of life would be if 2D automatons used the Wolfram numbering 20:58:25 Awful 20:58:26 :P 20:58:50 Well, there's probably a shitload of numbers 20:58:59 Since the game of life is isotropic 20:59:09 Plus every color inversion 20:59:45 That's no still life. 20:59:48 .# 20:59:50 #.# 20:59:51 .#.# 20:59:53 ..#.# 20:59:55 ...#.# 20:59:57 ....# 21:02:46 s 21:07:08 -!- Corun has joined. 21:09:22 a 21:11:58 Warrigal: yeah that works, i wasn't really thinking 21:12:36 we should all collaborate on a program. :P 21:12:44 Warrigal: hmm, how can you start a sidetrack from that? 21:13:02 i mean you can't draw stuff having just that 21:13:15 You want to draw stuff? 21:22:57 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:23:20 Warrigal: say i do. 21:23:24 Okay. 21:23:30 Put them really close together. 21:23:45 that's not connected. 21:23:55 Use a different fuse. 21:24:02 I believe MCell has an example. 21:24:10 that's really what i was asking for. 21:24:18 so kind of obvious i want that 21:25:19 Then get it. 21:26:47 err i mean the pattern, not the program 21:26:57 i was just wondering, i'm not especially interesting 21:27:08 i just assume you're currently more gol-able than me 21:27:16 21:29:10 So. 21:29:11 I'm bored. 21:29:18 I will finish my Snake game in C and play it. 21:29:37 have you tried crossworm 21:30:03 it probably has the worst user interface ever 21:30:09 i mean 21:30:12 to play solo 21:30:18 there's a button to kill off player 2 21:30:21 Link? 21:30:27 and there's only a few seconds before the game starts 21:30:39 and it takes about that time to adjust your eyes to see the worm 21:30:46 very annoying 21:30:47 err 21:30:51 www.vjn.fi 21:31:16 Kewel, my snake segfaults 21:32:13 * zuff wget http://www.vjn.fi/g/crossworm.pyc 21:32:41 Fatal Python error: (pygame parachute) Bus Error 21:32:41 zsh: abort python crossworm.pyc 21:32:42 oklopol: but 21:32:47 i cannot do crosseyes 21:32:47 -!- moozilla has joined. 21:32:48 :* 21:32:49 :( 21:33:12 noob ; ) 21:35:16 it's not hard to learn 21:35:21 my eyes just don't do it 21:35:21 :P 21:35:29 it's not hard to learn 21:35:42 With one selection of colors and Wolfram-like numbering, Life would be rule 47634829485252037513201013286088668282768170057352664824758043712595701137265078991199718623260253982640356387398937188476931618032046341864. 21:36:11 Heh. 21:36:16 Welp, my snake game works, but about 40534853453745x faster than it should 21:36:19 That's one big number! 21:36:45 It's just a 512-bit number; since there are 2^9 possibilities for the 3x3 square. 21:37:05 No longer than a reasonable SHA-512 hash. 21:37:36 But kinda long for a name! 21:37:45 Rule 110 rolls off the tongue nicely. 21:38:26 You could call it rule 0x100010001000101170117000100010117011701170117177E177E000100010117011701170117177E177E01170117177E177E177E177E7EE87EE8, too; that's shorter and more repetitive. 21:38:57 What about in ASCII? 21:39:31 can't you see..? 21:39:50 I can't really read hexa. 21:40:07 the first character is 0x10 21:40:10 The second byte is a null 21:40:14 yes 21:40:14 Which is unfortunate 21:40:44 Why can't null have a cutesy symbol like SOH? 21:40:56 Slereah: hex -> ascii conversion is so trivial it's impossible not to be able to do it 21:40:57 I'm sure we could all do with a few more control characters in our lives. 21:41:09 Rule AAAAAAABAAEAAQABARcBFwABAAEBFwEXARcBFxd+F34AAQABARcBFwEXARcXfhd+ARcBFxd+F34Xfhd+fuh+6A== in base64. 21:41:21 hmm that's nice 21:41:36 oklopol : What, you know every ASCII chars? 21:41:37 Maybe it could have a nickname like "the fuh rule". 21:41:52 Heh. 21:41:56 You mean you don't Slereah?! 21:41:58 Arc-fuh 21:41:58 Slereah: no 21:42:22 Slereah: that doesn't mean i can't see 99% of that wasn't letters 21:42:46 Yes, but what of the letters? :o 21:42:49 Or symbols? 21:43:02 hmm? 21:43:43 Hmm. Using # to mean XOR the next character with 0x40, $ to mean XOR it with 0x80, and % to mean XOR it with 0xC0... 21:44:05 -!- moozilla has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 21:44:34 According to hexdump -C, which converts all non-printable and >127 too into a dot, it's ".............................~.~.............~.~.....~.~.~.~~.~.". 21:44:49 0x7e ~ is just about the only readable thing it has. 21:45:29 Okay, this instead: # toggles XORing with 0x40, $ toggles XORing with 0x80. 21:46:38 No, it's too boring. 21:47:01 For the reference, I used the following to generate the bitstring for that number: 21:47:04 perl -e '$rule = ""; for ($val = 511; $val >= 0; $val--) { $bits = unpack("B9", chr($val/2).chr(($val&1)*128)); $self = substr($bits, 4, 1); $neighs = substr($bits, 0, 4).substr($bits, 5, 4); $nlive = $neighs; $nlive =~ s/0//g; $nlive = length($nlive); if ($nlive < 2 || $nlive > 3) { $rule .= "0"; } elsif ($live == 2) { $rule .= $self; } else { $rule .= "1"; } } print $rule, "\n";' 21:47:21 The ugliness of it. 21:49:20 Coool 21:49:22 My snake works 21:49:24 :D 21:49:41 WHY DID IT HAVE TO BE SNAKES 21:50:28 Okay I take that back it kind of works 21:52:05 oklopol: 21:52:06 if (SNAKE->last->x == 0) n = 39; 21:52:06 else n = SNAKE->last->x - 1; 21:52:08 i am stupid 21:52:12 that can be compressed 21:52:13 obviously 21:52:15 how ;_; 21:52:20 a simple modulo don't work 21:55:00 n = (SNAKE->last->x || 40) - 1 perhaps 21:55:08 clever 21:58:23 oklopol: 21:58:24 2+2 21:59:09 n = (SNAKE->last->x + 39) % 40 21:59:16 MizardX: Ouch. :) 22:00:38 Best snake variant: You grow by one each move. Avoid hitting into yourself. 22:03:13 Easy as long as you follow some pattern. 22:12:27 -!- Judofyr has joined. 22:13:49 22:13 NickServ: penguinofthegods@gmail.com has too many nicknames registered. 22:13:52 Suck my dick freenode. 22:14:55 you cybersquatter you 22:15:31 What are your nicks? 22:16:16 Warrigal: Lots. 22:17:40 Oh, apparently I also have too many nicknames registered. 22:18:15 -!- Warrigal has changed nick to ihope. 22:18:26 ihope: Rate my name from 1-10 22:19:41 I've dropped some nicknames; let's see if I can drop now. 22:19:46 Sorry, I only rate names ordinally. 22:19:47 TELL MEEEEE 22:19:52 ihope: Do that then 22:19:55 Okay. 22:22:47 Perfect in the pronunciation category, antiperfect in the starting with a capital letter category, not as good as "Slereah" but better than "fizzie" in the containing an A, O or U (preferably A or O) category... 22:23:01 s/pronunciation/pronounceability/ 22:23:12 Or is it pronuncibility or something. 22:24:20 Antiperfect in the sonorant consonant category. 22:25:52 -!- ihope has changed nick to Warrigal. 22:26:34 This nick has been registered. 22:27:41 -!- Slereah has changed nick to Incrediblon. 22:27:48 Well, this one hasn't. 22:29:48 Warrigal: I dislike initial-caps nicks. 22:29:56 And it's a bit hard to pronounce, too many consonants. 22:30:09 Also, I'd rank fizzie > Slereah. 22:30:16 Also, you forgot the "short and memorable" category. 22:30:20 'w' and 'x' is unregisterd. 22:30:20 Which I excell at with zuff. 22:30:31 MizardX: they're erroneous 22:30:36 because they're quakenet servcies 22:30:38 like q 22:30:46 You can't /nick to them 22:30:59 -NickServ- Information on q (account jack): 22:31:10 Yes, that was years ago, presumably. 22:31:11 Try /nick q 22:35:35 -!- oerjan has changed nick to Mgrvgrvladje. 22:35:44 who's complaining about consonants? 22:35:49 -!- Mgrvgrvladje has changed nick to oerjan. 22:36:36 Warrigal: 22:37:11 (supposedly a genuine georgian surname) 22:38:00 Nicks should begin with capital letters, A is the best vowel, and non-sonorant consonants should only be used to separate vowels. 22:38:39 for(s=c='',r=64;r;)s+=++c>63?c=r--&&'\n':c'; 22:38:42 discuss 22:38:57 Warrigal: Justify the first point, I disagree. Also the second. 22:38:59 check |/ on everything except capitals 22:39:58 zuff: AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 22:40:05 oerjan: What 22:40:57 that's my comment on the debate regarding that thing 22:41:35 Capital letters are like standing up. Sitting causes restlessness. 22:42:14 Warrigal: But aesthetically, I prefer lowercase for names. 22:43:32 Capital letters make them seem more like actual names and less like usernames. 22:43:47 I don't suppose you plan on changing your name from Elliott Hird to elliott hird. 22:43:50 Warrigal: I am fine with seeming like a username. 22:43:56 Though that may be difficult and time-consuming. 22:44:01 Also, my name is not aesthetically pleasing anyway. 22:44:14 If I decide I like the name zuff, I would probably have no qualm changing my name to it IRL. 22:45:11 I guess zuff sounds like getting scratched behind the ear. 22:45:12 Warrigal: So I think you're wrong. 22:45:15 But only if you're a dog. 22:45:18 And lol. 22:45:24 But srsly, why is a the best consonant? 22:45:26 my name is Zuff. Dr., er, what first name goes well with Zuff? 22:45:43 I was going to say Frank, but I'm not so sure. 22:45:59 You should invent a device; then it could be called Zuff's Device. 22:46:03 something suitably mad-sounding of course 22:46:07 fizzie: Heh. 22:46:11 Viktor Zuff perhaps 22:46:12 I think the problem is that it has no solid consonant. 22:46:28 the z is weedy, the ff is awkward, kind of bu-ff-ery 22:46:39 and the vowel is basically lost 22:46:45 Yeah. 22:46:47 z should be pronounced ts, of course 22:46:53 oerjan: lol 22:47:09 I guess you need some solid consonants to keep the other consonants from drifting off to nowhere. 22:47:43 zuff: Nice C. 22:47:48 hm i wonder if zuff means something in german 22:47:51 That's why the letter D is nice. It's a voiced stop consonant, and all. 22:48:00 Erm. 22:48:03 Not C. 22:48:07 pikhq: Wat? 22:48:09 hey there's a User:Zuff on wp 22:48:13 pikhq: THat's JS. :P 22:48:16 And I stole it. 22:48:16 Yeah. 22:48:20 Realised after the fact. 22:48:25 oerjan: It's a four-letter combination; I'm not surprised. 22:48:27 Looks like good obfuscated C, though. 22:48:49 http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=zuff 22:49:08 oerjan: One definition made in 2006 and it's nonsensical. 22:49:28 B, D and G are the voiced plosives. 22:49:45 * Warrigal ponders whether "Warribal", "Warridal", or "Warrigal" is best 22:49:50 Warrigal: I content that Warrigal is a crap name because it starts on a downer with W 22:49:53 "Warribal" looks too much like "cannibal". 22:50:03 No, the W makes it swing! Or something. 22:50:03 Which sounds awkward with the relatively harsher latter end, and the a following it is hard to munch together 22:50:12 So I'd aim for improving the start. 22:50:49 http://everything2.com/e2node/zuff 22:51:06 A "W" to swing and an "rr" to sing, then you jump off the "g" and land with an "l"! 22:51:36 How are you trying to pronounce the "arr", by the way? 22:52:28 It should sound exactly like "horrible", except "w" instead of "h" and "g" instead of "b". 22:52:37 -!- ab5tract has joined. 22:52:48 Warrigal: That's how I'm saying it. It's awkawrd. 22:52:53 Seriously, the Wa is what ruins it, 22:53:01 http://www.ancestry.com/facts/Zuff-family-history.ashx 22:53:15 it exists! or did at one point 22:53:35 heh. 22:53:49 a warrigal needs a furry gal 22:53:57 Are you pronouncing the "rr" rhotically? 22:54:35 I'd expect you to, as it's followed by a vowel. 22:55:24 I'll make a recording. 22:55:25 you can huff and puff, but you can never snuff a zuff 22:56:50 By the way, fizzie, zuff is derived from your name 22:56:54 fuzz -> zzuf -> zuff 22:57:09 Warrigal: http://filebin.ca/xcthqn/foo.aiff 22:59:52 Warrigal: . 23:00:12 Just a moment. 23:00:55 Um, that's not you saying "Armageddon" again, is it? 23:01:10 Warrigal: Err, that's me saying Warrigal. 23:01:12 Several times. 23:01:18 Ooops. 23:01:21 I uploaded the wrong fil 23:01:21 e 23:01:22 xD 23:01:38 I think a recording of someone saying "Warrigal" several times would be really scary. 23:01:50 Warrigal: Er, why? 23:02:23 people accidentally saying "Armageddon" when they mean something else would also be scary 23:02:43 especially if a lot of people started doing it 23:04:37 Are you waiting for me to respond or uploading that file? 23:05:18 are you multitasking or mulling the task 23:06:24 Warrigal: uploading 23:07:27 Warrigal: http://filebin.ca/mhgzgx/warrigal.aiff 23:09:43 How many times do you say it? 23:10:23 Most of those are non-rhotic, though you do have two rhotic ones in there. 23:10:55 Okay, maybe three. 23:12:39 Wait, "horrible" is pronounced differently in Britain, isn't it. 23:13:26 This is why Americans are so much better than Brits. :-P 23:13:53 Warrigal: Make a recording of you pronouncing it, then, so I can adjust my vocal cords. :P 23:13:53 I'll see about recording me saying it. 23:14:58 You just need to move your lips closer together, and your teeth. 23:15:36 Gee, I just remembered that the official pronunciation of my name is actually completely different. 23:15:50 I'll dismiss that as a joke. 23:17:33 I guess I'll do more or less what you did. 23:20:18 Try http://filebin.ca/bkqth/Warrigal-US.wma 23:22:57 she didn't die \o/ 23:23:48 In http://filebin.ca/bkqth/Warrigal-US.wma, she doesn't die at the end. 23:23:56 I'm guessing zuff is finding a way to play .wma files. 23:24:04 Warrigal: why wma? :{ 23:24:19 Because I hate you. 23:24:21 -!- Judofyr has quit. 23:24:26 I'll try again. 23:24:29 I agree. :D 23:24:36 No, I can play .wmas 23:24:38 But I hate you 23:24:39 :D 23:24:55 Warrigal: WAHGL WAHGL WAHGL WAHGL WAHGL 23:27:32 So you've heard it? 23:27:43 Yes. 23:28:33 How do you like those pronunciations? 23:28:44 Wahgl. 23:30:11 They're both supposed to be three-syllable pronunciations. "Wahgl" is only two. 23:30:20 Well, it's waaaaaaaaaahgl 23:30:24 Though I'll admit the second pronunciation could have turned out better. 23:30:34 It's supposed to be wah-uh-gl. 23:32:23 vehicle 23:34:19 If you pronounce Warrigal wah-huh-gl, I will... decrease your Credit. :-P 23:35:51 night all 23:36:09 i pronounce it "very cool" 23:36:45 I can see a non-native speaker pronouncing it that way. 23:37:13 vrr-ptang-q'ool 23:41:38 aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaahjjjjjjjjjj laggggggggg 23:41:45 stupid "50 programs open at once i dont liek" 23:41:49 RUN INFINITE PROGRAMS YOU POS 23:42:02 That's why I have three programs open. 23:42:09 Warrigal: that's not the case 23:42:22 That's why I have two windowed applications open. 23:42:53 in case you don't know yet, i find pretty much nothing more insulting than people telling me things that refer to my english capabilities as non-native. 23:43:21 oklopol's awesome at english btw. 23:43:42 even when they're things like "non-native people like you are usually better at grammar" 23:43:51 (than natives) 23:44:43 Do you mean you *actually* pronounce it that way? 23:44:45 well, of course anything that requires you to learn it younger than i currently am will do. 23:44:49 yes the we are better 23:45:25 Warrigal: finnishified, i pronounce it [woorig(o-umlaut)l] 23:45:44 i can't type the phonetic characters for those 23:45:45 orgel orgel orgel 23:46:12 o-umlaut is what finnish uses for that vowel english uses in the word "a" 23:46:20 of course it's a bit different 23:46:27 but they're close relatives 23:47:40 the letters a and ö grew up together on a small farm in Värmland, Sweden, but later moved in opposite directions 23:48:59 yeah, ö became a poor fisherman who enjoys the sauna, and occasionally makes operating systems and cell phones for pocket money, while a became a successful businessman who everyone has a hate-love relationship with 23:49:21 lol