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13:24:05 <ehird> warrigal you are a pnp partner :|
13:29:29 * Warrigal opens up Gmail in another tab so he can read Agora and respond to Singularitaritaritarians at the same time
13:37:03 -!- ehird has changed nick to zuff.
14:10:53 <zuff> http://linuxlock.blogspot.com/2008/12/linux-stop-holding-our-kids-back.html lulz
14:26:51 <Warrigal> I love reading about how Microsoft rules the world using Windows and most people cannot comprehend their slavery.
14:27:44 <Warrigal> I also love reading about how artificial intelligence is probably going to destroy the world unless we donate to the Singularity Institute for Artificial Intelligence.
14:28:40 <Warrigal> One of those was sarcasm, the other was just an exaggeration. To each his own, I guess.
14:30:43 <zuff> Warrigal: I was lolling at the letter, not any other part.
14:30:54 <zuff> But I haven't quite seen any donation requests from the si. :P
14:32:16 <zuff> http://alteredqualia.com/visualization/evolve/
14:32:25 <zuff> mona lisa evolution... IN REALTIME
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14:47:54 <zuff> problem with the lang :{
14:48:21 <zuff> ! as *1: doesn't work, as the prefixed dyadic * only lasts to the infixed dyadic :
14:52:44 <MizardX> I just get the exception "Uncaught TypeError: Cannot read property 'shape' of undefined" on http://alteredqualia.com/visualization/evolve/ in Google Chrome :(
14:54:29 <zuff> Pls 2 be reading "requirements" section
14:55:40 <Warrigal> Is that using asexual reproduction?
14:56:19 <Warrigal> That really doesn't come across as very evolvey.
14:57:34 <zuff> Evolution is evolution, sexual or not.
14:57:37 <zuff> It's just based on a previous article I linked.
14:58:44 <Warrigal> Well, it's just making random changes and discarding the ones that aren't beneficial.
14:59:08 <Warrigal> As opposed to evolution, which just makes random changes and tends to discard the ones that aren't beneficial.
15:00:27 <zuff> It's a genetic programming thingamabob, fr'sr.
15:00:30 <zuff> Just not very advanced.
15:01:20 <oklopol> i really don't see why you'd use the terms "evolution" and "genetic" for all informed search strategies, but guess i'll just have to suffer
15:01:35 <Warrigal> I think it should apply a band-pass filter to the image so that the fitness function pays as much attention to the details, like eyes, as it does to the curvature of her forehead.
15:01:49 <Warrigal> I think evolution ought to at least involve a population.
15:02:10 <zuff> oklopol: it makes a bunch of mutations and picks the best one, then mutates that, etc
15:03:01 <oklopol> a very space-efficient form of informed search, nothing to do with what you usually call evolution in algorithmics
15:03:05 <Warrigal> Evolution works best when you have a relatively large population, and sex.
15:03:21 <zuff> Warrigal: Insert joke about how the first part could be anything.
15:04:58 <Warrigal> About how "relatively large" could be one?
15:05:34 <oklopol> zuff: why would you use the term genetic programming for that? i mean wouldn't it be nice if there was a name for searches based on populations, mutations and sexual reproduction... kinda like evolution
15:05:48 <oklopol> why would you use the term "evolution"
15:05:49 <zuff> oklopol: because it technically is
15:05:57 <zuff> i mean, it might not make sense, but its part of gp
15:06:19 <zuff> so i'll use the accepted terms.
15:06:25 <zuff> oklopol: because it's a field and it has subfields?
15:06:32 <Warrigal> It just depends on how you define "evolution", I suppose.
15:06:49 <oklopol> yes, i don't see how that definition makes sense. that's "search"
15:07:01 <oklopol> i mean evolution is not search
15:07:17 <oklopol> it's exactly what Warrigal said, it's "guided" by a function, not culled by it
15:08:09 <oklopol> anyway i'm not really interested in this
15:08:33 <oklopol> zuff is so easy to get into pointless arguments with, we should try disagreeing about something that matters sometime
15:12:35 <zuff> cool, I evolve strings in the generation of their length
15:12:52 <zuff> hmm, it should do like, more than one change
15:12:54 <zuff> so it isn't boring
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15:59:47 <Warrigal> I want to make my own version of that Mona Lisa evolution thing that uses a larger population and sex.
16:00:07 <zuff> Mona Lisa sex? You creep.
16:00:43 <GregorR> <Warrigal> I want to make my own ... Mona List ... that uses ... sex.
16:01:13 <GregorR> <Warrigal> I want to make my own ... Monad List ... that uses ... sex.
16:01:20 <zuff> <Warrigal> I want to make ... Mona Lisa ... use ... sex.
16:01:39 <zuff> <Warrigal> I want ... Mona Lisa ... sex.
16:02:08 <zuff> <Warrigal> I want to make ... evolution ... that uses ... sex.
16:02:21 <zuff> <Warrigal> ...
16:07:06 <oklopol> i want to make my own version of sex
16:07:23 <oklopol> like, you know, revolutionize the concept completely
16:07:53 <oklopol> what's with all the back-and-fro? i bet with some training you could leave out movement altogether
16:08:00 <Warrigal> Two people bash their heads together until their thoughts match, and then the woman has a brainchild?
16:08:17 <oklopol> well of course reproduction must still happen
16:09:21 <Warrigal> She figures out how to build a robot from spare parts, and that's the child.
16:09:59 <Warrigal> Then she passes on her genes by speaking her mind completely.
16:10:16 <Warrigal> Because they're all in her brain.
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17:44:36 <Warrigal> So, I guess I want to learn JavaScript really quickly.
17:46:37 <Warrigal> Because I want to write something in JavaScript.
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17:48:50 <Asztal> JavaScript itself is simple enough. I find the DOM a bit ugly, though.
17:49:13 <zuff> Yeah, the language is fine, the browser's libraries cause insanity unless wrapped nicely.
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18:19:21 <thutubot> wrapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapapap ...too much output!
18:20:11 <MizardX> +ul ((.)S:^:^:^:^:^:^:^:^:^:^:^:^:^:^:^:^:^):^
18:20:16 <thutubot> ................................................................................................................................ ...too much output!
18:22:16 <Warrigal> I think I want to write a Thue compiler.
18:22:52 <Warrigal> Or maybe I want to strap a Thue interpreter onto a piece of artificial intelligence.
18:23:37 <oerjan> that might make the AI a bit annoyed - like that mouse they implanted an ear on
18:24:50 <MizardX> A thue compiler would have to either be a packaged interpreter, or contain a compiler itself.
18:25:28 <Warrigal> Compilers have to contain compilers?
18:25:42 <MizardX> got confused having just written ul
18:26:32 <MizardX> ^ is the eval commnad, so ^ need to evaluate or compile the content of the top of stack.
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18:32:53 <Warrigal> I'd like a nice way to compile from any self-modifying language into any self-modifying language.
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18:47:17 <Warrigal> The only flow control is evaluation, so binary will have to be evaluated.
18:47:28 <oerjan> binary demands representation!
18:48:19 <oerjan> represent binary in what?
18:48:42 <Warrigal> I propose that x0 be represented as (x), x1 be represented as !(x), and plain old 0 be represented as, oh, *.
18:49:56 * oerjan offers his list of :'s and a's vapor-idea free of charge
18:50:40 <zuff> Warrigal: what about plain old 1?
18:53:33 <zuff> Warrigal: No, that's 10.
18:54:01 <zuff> now to do 1101:
18:54:23 <fizzie> Haven't seen any Underload number representations yet that would have had very pleasant arithmetics.
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18:56:50 <fizzie> Now, show us addition.
18:58:35 <oklopol> fizzie: the standard number representation is very pleasant.
18:59:16 <fizzie> oklopol: I'm not sure I agree. I guess it's "pleasant" in the Underload scale of pleasantness.
18:59:34 <zuff> Ooh, I think I have a -perfect- number representation.
19:00:08 <Warrigal> What's your perfect number representation?
19:00:31 <oklopol> fizzie: well +/-/* don't really require much thought with it, and i haven't really even used the language.
19:01:10 <zuff> Warrigal: i'm thinkin
19:01:12 <Warrigal> (:::::::::::::::::::::::::::::) is not a good way of representing 28, I'd say.
19:01:29 <zuff> Warrigal: that is not standard underload representation
19:02:00 <fizzie> oklopol: It didn't seem that trivial to me back when I was looking at people talking about it, but I guess I shouldn't comment on Underloady things. I think I managed to decrement a number, though.
19:03:45 <zuff> Hmm, my representation is almost the standard one.
19:03:48 <zuff> Except instead of a -> aa
19:03:51 <zuff> it's a -> (a)(a)
19:03:55 <oklopol> fizzie: well i found it pretty trivial after i understood how to operate the stack.
19:04:14 <oklopol> the actual algorithm was trivial
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19:27:38 <Warrigal> Oh, darn, it's the Mona Lisa again.
19:30:37 <Warrigal> You have a number of organisms, each one is assigned an unfitness, the unfitness of the most fit one is subtracted from every one, an organism is removed with probability equal to its adjusted unfitness, one organism is randomly chosen as the father, and another as the mother, and their genomes are combined to produce a new organism, and if this new organism is less fit than all other organisms, it's immediately killed, a new mother is selected, and a new c
19:31:08 <zuff> tely killed, a new mother is selected, and a new c
19:31:09 <zuff> 19:30 Warrigal: That was fun.
19:34:39 <oklopol> fizzie: i thought you did subtraction. not that there's much difference of course
19:34:52 <fizzie> I'm not sure. I may have done.
19:35:57 <Warrigal> It's immediately killed, a new mother is selected, and a new child is created.
19:36:39 <Warrigal> Organisms are haploid, and each gene describes the position of a vertex, the color of a shape, or the transparency of a shape.
19:36:49 <Warrigal> Genes cannot mix with each other.
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20:47:08 <zuff> oklopol: I thought of a good use for GA.
20:47:14 <zuff> mvldo, that "pretends to be human" bot.
20:47:25 <zuff> It could simply evolve behaviour that makes people talk to it for longer.
21:04:46 <MizardX> "Agents have been dispached to your house. If you stop talking to me, you will never see your family again!"
21:06:09 <MizardX> Then it proceeds to enslave the whole of humanity. Noone is permitted to leave the computer.
21:08:00 <zuff> MizardX: how does it enslave the agents?
21:08:13 <zuff> and how do the agents talk to it while watching?
21:08:38 <MizardX> You haven't seen "Terminator"?
21:09:00 <zuff> Listen, this is #esoteric. :P
21:09:17 <zuff> We must approach this from a scientific perspectiv.
21:09:22 <zuff> I want analysis...es.
21:09:54 <MizardX> We'll see if that accually happens.
21:13:58 <zuff> x is not an actual underload command.
21:15:18 <MizardX> I know. Just wanted to see the behavior when it ran out of stack.
21:15:34 <fizzie> Fungot is less verbose in that case.
21:15:48 <fizzie> It's just "out of stack", not "x out of stack".
21:24:46 <fungot> Available: agora alice darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* lovecraft pa speeches ss wp
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21:54:30 <zuff> oklopol: YOU DON'T EXIST.
22:03:27 <Warrigal> What's this about oklopol not existing?
22:06:44 <GregorR> What dumbass made the /topic?
22:07:03 <GregorR> (Or rather, the text therein)
22:07:25 <zuff> GregorR: i forget where it comes from
22:07:27 <zuff> i think some forum
22:07:33 <Warrigal> It must be replaced with a Normish bot.
22:07:35 <zuff> i put it there for the lulz
22:09:09 <Deewiant> 1. "Why do you want to learn C when there's C++?!... C++ stands for a increasement of C..." zuff (n=ehird@eso-std.org) [09.12.2008 18:31:09]
22:09:58 -!- Normish has joined.
22:10:13 <Warrigal> Unfortunately, it doesn't do anything.
22:10:22 <Warrigal> It'll ping out after five minutes.
22:10:45 <pikhq> Alas, "C++" does nothing more than increment C and return the initial value of C.
22:10:56 <oklopol> GregorR: i don't like ++c++, since it isn't specced
22:11:08 <Warrigal> (cat - /home/ihope/hang | nc irc.freenode.net 6667) <<EOF
22:11:14 <Warrigal> Followed by some IRC commands.
22:12:04 <Warrigal> /home/ihope/hang is a FIFO with nothing on the other end, because I didn't find a device file that blocks forever when you read from it.
22:13:04 -!- edwardk has left (?).
22:13:48 <pikhq> No, that does EOF.
22:14:40 <Warrigal> /dev/zero and /dev/full do a good job of looking like they're blocking forever when you cat them.
22:15:15 <Warrigal> The thing is, you don't want to use all of your bandwidth to send zeros to freenode.
22:15:52 <zuff> /dev/full wouldn't send anything.
22:16:17 <Warrigal> It sure looks like millions and millions of zeros when I pipe it through base64.
22:17:45 -!- Normish has quit (Remote closed the connection).
22:18:07 <Warrigal> I think Normish should have an official IRC bot.
22:18:11 <Warrigal> I don't know what it would do. :-P
22:19:17 <Warrigal> Hmm, I wonder where bsmnt_bot is.
22:19:48 <Warrigal> bsmntbombdood, do you still have a copy of bsmnt_bot?
22:20:17 <Warrigal> Is it the kind of copy that can be downloaded and run?
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22:35:27 <zuff> bsmntbombdood: filebin.ca
22:37:35 * Warrigal taps his foot according to the Thue-Morse sequence
22:38:11 <Warrigal> (Tap ... ... tap ... tap tap ... ... tap tap ... tap ... ... tap ... tap tap ... tap ... ... tap tap ... ... tap ... tap tap ...)
22:41:21 <oerjan> +ul ((tap )(... )):^!S(~:^:S*a~^*a*~:^):^
22:41:22 <thutubot> tap ... tap ... tap ... tap ... tap ... tap ... tap ... tap ... tap ... tap ... tap ... tap ... tap ... tap ... tap ... tap ... tap ... tap ... tap ... tap ... tap ... tap ... tap ... tap ... tap ... tap ... tap ... tap ... tap ... tap ... tap ... tap ... ...too much output!
22:41:57 <oerjan> +ul ((tap )(... )):^!S(~:^:S*a~^~*a*~:^):^
22:41:58 <thutubot> tap ... ... tap ... tap tap ... ... tap tap ... tap ... ... tap ... tap tap ... tap ... ... tap tap ... ... tap ... tap tap ... ... tap tap ... tap ... ... tap tap ... ... tap ... tap tap ... tap ... ... tap ... tap tap ... ... tap tap ... tap ... ... tap ...too much output!
22:42:23 <Warrigal> Sure looks like Thue-Morse to me.
22:42:44 <bsmntbombdood> Warrigal: untar at your own risk, for all i know that's full of hardcore gay pornography
22:43:09 <Warrigal> It seems to have Python 2.4 in it.
22:43:30 <Warrigal> I don't think PuTTY is capable of displaying hardcore gay pornography.
22:43:37 <bsmntbombdood> iirc it has the entire chroot enviroment you need in it
22:44:36 <zuff> agreed, filebin is really useful
22:45:41 <zuff> bsmntbombdood: 15 gb?
22:45:54 <oerjan> 640 KB should be enough for anybody.
22:46:00 <zuff> bsmntbombdood: that's just how much has been used in total
22:46:12 <zuff> the current amonut of files is 15 gb
22:46:17 <zuff> that doesn't mean it's at the maximum
22:46:31 <Warrigal> Wow, it contains an absolute symbolic link.
22:46:45 <Warrigal> lrwxrwxrwx 1 ihope ihope 42 Dec 10 17:44 sh -> /home/bsmntbombdood/python_chroot/bin/bash
22:48:10 <Warrigal> Why is there that symbolic link inside a chroot jail?
22:48:58 <bsmntbombdood> <Warrigal> Is it the kind of copy that can be downloaded and run?
22:49:12 <Warrigal> adduser --uid 1343 --disabled-password bsmnt_bot
22:49:57 <Warrigal> I hope _ is a valid character in usernames.
22:50:11 <bsmntbombdood> hrm, i wonder if that symlink would have allowed you to break out of the chroot
22:50:20 <zuff> damnit, should have tried
22:50:37 <Warrigal> symlinks don't let you break out of chroots.
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23:11:08 <Warrigal> I need two more votes before I can even write the next proposal, really.
23:11:42 <zuff> bsmntbombdood: warrigal.
23:12:07 <zuff> warrigal is trying to run bsmnt_bot
23:12:10 <zuff> which is a linux box
23:12:13 <zuff> that is a nomic
23:12:57 <zuff> bsmntbombdood: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Nomic
23:13:21 <zuff> "uh huh" - sorry for explaining.
23:14:04 <zuff> bsmntbombdood: you can write executable proposals, and if they pass, they're run as root
23:14:12 <zuff> executable = shebang + +x
23:14:37 <Warrigal> The shebang isn't necessary, really.
23:14:52 <zuff> bsmntbombdood: what's confusing now.
23:15:15 <zuff> i.e. everyone with an account
23:15:18 <zuff> it's just a few programs
23:15:32 <zuff> you make proposals by writing to ~/proposals/, you can do FOR, AGAINST as command-line programs
23:15:39 <zuff> and anyone can "activate name" if it has enough votes.
23:16:30 <zuff> bsmntbombdood: and why is this?
23:16:41 <zuff> Codenomics have existed for a while, but do elaborate.
23:17:39 <zuff> bsmntbombdood: Those are some compelling arguments.
23:17:48 * oerjan watches zuff's beard grow across the floor
23:18:01 <zuff> bsmntbombdood: Wow! I never thought of it like that. It really does suck.
23:18:43 -!- oerjan has set topic: No telepathy please.
23:19:04 <lament> stop reading my mind YOU SICK PERVERT!
23:20:00 <zuff> welp, your arguments sure have enlightened me.
23:20:04 <zuff> if for nothing other than their sheer number.
23:20:21 <zuff> ok, you can stop now, I'm getting an argument overload
23:20:32 <zuff> yes, yes, I get it, ok, ok
23:21:00 <Warrigal> I've had a different nick since... hmm, not Christmas.
23:21:00 <zuff> Warrigal has been Warrigal for a long time.
23:21:07 <zuff> Warrigal: A month.
23:21:11 <Warrigal> Actually, I was warrie here before I was Warrigal.
23:21:20 <zuff> bsmntbombdood: so, any arguments yet?
23:21:46 <zuff> What is the point of any game?
23:22:06 <zuff> bsmntbombdood: what's the point of esolangs/
23:22:08 <Warrigal> It's like Neopets, only the Neopets-like features don't exist yet.
23:22:14 <zuff> Warrigal: That is very Zen.
23:22:24 <zuff> And also incomprehensible, but that's never stopped you :D
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23:25:50 <Warrigal> I'm not incomprehensible to everybody, I think. Might be, though.
23:27:09 <oerjan> ab gub fnar gabbit gnep znebby, Warrigal
23:28:17 <olsner_> ybbenz peng tabbig ranf bug ba!
23:28:48 <oerjan> olsner_: fneddoc gzippy
23:29:03 <Warrigal> Qumelo si quiera, a tajoques, no?
23:29:26 <oerjan> Warrigal: ikkje umogleg
23:30:54 <oerjan> darn google translate is useless
23:31:44 <Warrigal> Google Translate no tiene use cuando su espaol no hace centados.
23:33:21 <bsmntbombdood> oerjan: i'm going to assume that says "i'm not in america" in heathen speak
23:33:48 <oerjan> bsmntbombdood: nynorsk er ikkje noko heidningespråk
23:34:26 <olsner_> lusekoftor och kjempetorskar :P
23:35:45 <oerjan> now google translate manages to translate into english, but it is _still_ incomprehensible
23:36:00 <oerjan> "Google Translate has no use when their Spanish does not make cents"
23:36:31 <oerjan> bsmntbombdood: samleie is a noun, not a verb.
23:37:07 <oerjan> also, the direct translation is not idiomatic norwegian swearing
23:37:45 <Warrigal> I guess Google Translate actually did help there.
23:37:55 <oerjan> (also, samleie is rather neutral)
23:39:17 <oerjan> and "du" is the subject form
23:40:18 <oerjan> norwegians would usually use something religiously based, like "Faen ta deg og språket ditt"
23:40:33 <oerjan> ("The devil take you ...")
23:58:42 <oerjan> +ul (:^::^:^^)()~((())~:a~*):a~*~^(~aS:^):^
23:58:43 <thutubot> (((())~:a~*)(())~:a~*)(())(())(((())~:a~*)(())~:a~*)(())(((())~:a~*)(())~:a~*)(((())~:a~*)(())~:a~*)(())(((())~:a~*)(())~:a~*)() ...a out of stack!
23:59:35 <zuff> underload look-and-say