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00:59:58 <ehird> ok, the rc shell is my new favourite imperative scripting language
01:00:01 <ehird> http://plan9.bell-labs.com/sys/doc/rc.html
01:05:41 <ehird> oklofok: it's really really really simple.
01:05:52 <ehird> i picked it up in like 3 seconds frsrs
01:15:44 <oklofok> (a pretty deep comment, i know!)
01:16:51 <Warrigal> Now, on an ordinary computer, the basic memory options available are read from address and write to address, with nothing like copy this address range to this address range, right?
01:17:14 <ehird> oklofok: also the duff's device guy made it
01:17:19 <ehird> Warrigal: i guess.
01:17:23 <oklofok> Warrigal: what do you mean basic?
01:17:36 <oklofok> in the os, in the hardware, in the software?
01:17:44 <Warrigal> oklofok: in the hardware, I guess.
01:17:56 <oklofok> Warrigal: x86 has stuff like rep
01:18:30 <oklofok> and io is often done outside the cpu, moving lots of stuff, then doing an interrupt
01:18:38 <oklofok> rep repeats a command until cx =0
01:19:05 <oklofok> or something like that, i'm really an algorithmician, so take this with a salt of wine.
01:19:34 <Warrigal> Is it possible to do a more complex memory option than read-from-address and write-to-address in better asymptotic time than by using those two operations?
01:20:30 <oklofok> better asymptotic time than constant time?
01:21:00 <oklofok> well, i'm not sure what you mean by "complex memory option"
01:22:28 <oklofok> aaand, also x86 has sse, streaming simd extensions, single instruction multiple data, which i assume has something to do with doing many operations at once, thus allowing, at least as an interface to the programmer, to move a lot of stuff at once.
01:22:33 <Warrigal> Something like copying one address range to another, which would take linear time using read-from-address and write-to-address.
01:22:53 <Warrigal> That only takes cube root time if your memory is cube-shaped. :-P
01:22:55 <oklofok> i have no idea how x86 shit is actually run... or well, at least not how sse works
01:23:48 <oklofok> but usually x86 turns its complex instructions into a certain kind of microcode, which is more like a risc
01:25:43 <oklofok> trying to make some sense out of the mess.
01:26:03 <oklofok> x86 is no doubt the ugliest thing that ever existed
01:26:22 <oklofok> yes i think it should come into existance right about now.
01:27:09 <oklofok> and as for running times...
01:27:20 <oklofok> rep usually runs slower than just making an explicit loop
01:27:32 <oklofok> sse, on the other hand, is very fast
01:27:43 <oklofok> so it might be they do some kinda optimization shit.
01:28:05 <oklofok> keep your enemies even closer and all that
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01:55:12 <revcompgeek> I just made the page for a language I created recently
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03:52:59 <Warrigal> A 1-mebibit Bloom filter has 2^20 positions, each addressable with 20 bits. A SHA-1 hash is 160 bits, so you can address 8 positions with it. If half of the positions are set (which probably happens once you've put 2^17 to 2^18 things in it), the probability of a false positive is 1 in 2^8.
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15:22:33 <serg> i study brainfuck!
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15:23:35 <serg> wanna code sqrt_n(n, num)
15:24:06 <serg> i mean root_n(n,num) :)
15:24:22 <serg> nibodi has coded it ?
15:24:59 <serg> Slereah-: has u ?
15:25:06 <Slereah-> You can check here for useful stuff : http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_algorithms
15:25:12 <Slereah-> I don't do too much Brainfuck.
15:31:37 <serg> i think brainfuck can be useful for data compression needs
15:31:49 <serg> Slereah-: what do u thinks about?
15:32:42 <serg> Slereah-: are there any good optimizers for purposes like printing string of ASCII symbols
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15:36:12 <Slereah-> As said, I'm no Brainfuck buff
15:37:41 <mrChlens> want to find applications for skills in brainfucking :D
15:42:22 <Asztal> there used to be a bot in this channel that could generate programs that print strings (EgoBot?)
15:43:14 <Slereah-> +ul (()(#))(~:^:S(_)S*a~^~!a~*~:^):^
15:43:16 <thutubot> #_#_##_###_#####_########_#############_#####################_##################################_####################################################### ...too much output!
15:43:34 <Slereah-> +bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.
15:43:59 <zuff> underload is way better than brainfuck.
15:44:21 <Slereah-> Also there's a lot of "aSS" in it
15:44:23 <zuff> protip: use ^bf
15:44:29 <zuff> except fungot ain't here
15:44:29 <Asztal> I also seem to remember reading that oklopol made a genetic algorithm that functioned like bf_txtgen... possibly
15:44:32 <Slereah-> ^bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.
15:45:29 <mrChlens> i need bot that generate brainfuck code for my string!
15:46:13 <Asztal> http://esolangs.org/wiki/EgoBot has a bf_txtgen command
15:46:19 <zuff> egobot is dead
15:46:23 <zuff> long death egobot
15:46:38 <Slereah-> mrChlens : http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_constants
15:46:49 <Slereah-> Just for single chars, but can be useful
15:46:51 <Asztal> I imagine it still works, though? (Or at least you could copy the bf_txtgen code)
15:47:04 <zuff> egobot requires some process serialization module
15:47:09 <zuff> that works on like one version of the linux kernel
15:47:14 <zuff> bf_txtgen is in java though
15:49:24 <mrChlens> Slereah-: your constants don't contain subloops
15:49:29 <zuff> Asztal: you use microsoft software, you can't complain about java :P
15:49:33 <zuff> mrChlens: not "his"
15:49:38 <Asztal> yes, well, that's eww too :)
15:50:04 <zuff> mrChlens: ours :P
15:50:09 <zuff> but no, no subloops
15:53:36 <zuff> i don't get what you meant
15:54:48 <zuff> (0 = silent, 1 = talk)
15:55:10 <zuff> echo 1; while() {read a; echo $a}
15:55:20 <zuff> I don't know why I wrote that either.
15:55:47 <SimonRC> um, tft starts with co-operation
15:56:04 <zuff> heh, trust me to fuck up such a simple program
15:56:06 <mrChlens> SimonRC: what does mean "tft" ?
15:56:15 <zuff> mrChlens: tit for tat algorithm for iterated prisoner's dilemma
15:56:38 <mrChlens> SimonRC: what does mean "tit" ?
15:56:55 <zuff> tit for tat is an english idiom
15:57:11 <zuff> wikipedia says "equivalent retaliation" as a literal form
15:57:49 <mrChlens> zuff: can u say "retaliation" in more simple form?
15:58:09 <SimonRC> don't you have a dictionary?
15:58:13 <zuff> SimonRC: don't be rude
15:58:22 <zuff> mrChlens: attack in response to an attack
15:58:44 <zuff> tit for tat == "if you attack in a certain way, i'll attack back"
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16:09:08 <zuff> could you build a cellular automata out of tons of prisoner's dilemmas?
16:10:31 <oklopol> Asztal: yes i did that once, not that it's all that relevant to confirm that.
16:12:08 <oklopol> bf txtgen with a genetic algo
16:35:01 <zuff> wow. I am really bored.
16:35:17 <Warrigal> I saw a prisoner's dilemma cellular automaton.
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16:40:55 <oklopol> fizzie: brought fungot here by accident?
16:40:55 <fungot> oklopol: any idea why? might this be accomplished?) can be invaluable. could be funny. :) anyways, i meant ( use dbm.gdbm) or ( type a) a
16:41:24 <oklopol> fungot: i was really hoping fizzie would answer, not you
16:41:25 <fungot> oklopol: some kind of attached fnord feels useful. it works, but if main() were a bigger function that was passed to the fold-function. she's been fnord :) just don't like tdd because it makes proofs easier
16:41:32 <oklopol> also you aren't really answering
16:41:33 <fizzie> oklopol: No, the "whoops" was more of a "whoops, fungot's not here" thing.
16:41:34 <fungot> fizzie: conversely, if you start with a database query dsl, never needed macros for it.
16:41:38 <oklopol> just asking more questions
16:41:48 <zuff> fizzie: he was joking :P
16:42:07 <oklopol> i was half joking, half lying
16:43:55 <zuff> I wonder what a good fungot-esque source text would be.
16:43:56 <fungot> zuff: and nand x nor x too! :p) then performed operations on it, possibly ever, and yet, at least for some platforms an extension library for an app
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17:01:00 <oklopol> Slereah-: this is more like it http://jonex.info/dump/yolisp.jpg
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17:51:39 <serg> http://www.imagebam.com/image/298ad120881820
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21:47:21 <Slereah-> ft2=fopen("energie.txt", "wt");
21:47:38 <Slereah-> Compiler tells me : no match for 'operator=' in 'ft2 = fopen(((const char*)"energie.txt"), ((const char*)"wt"))'
21:48:12 <serg> Slereah-: type mismatch
21:48:24 <serg> ft2 has wrong type
21:48:45 <Slereah-> Well, it's declared in FILE* ft1,ft2,ft3,ft4;
21:51:38 <serg> is your program in C++ ?
21:52:53 <Deewiant> Slereah-: FILE* ft1,*ft2,*ft3,*ft4;
21:53:28 <Deewiant> In C/C++ you have to give the pointer/array types for each one, only the base type is shared
21:54:24 <fizzie> And if you insist on declaring multiple pointers in the same declaration, it might make sense write it as "FILE *ft1, *ft2, *ft3, *ft4;" to be more clear.
21:57:00 <Slereah-> They don't teach us much stuff.
21:59:19 <Slereah-> fprintf(ft1,"%e,", vmoy()); <- why would there be squares everywhere with that?
22:08:19 <fizzie> And vmoy() returns a double?
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22:50:53 <fizzie> Nothing based on that one line of code; it should print out a number and a comma to the fopen'd file in ft1 just fine.
22:52:00 <Slereah-> Which is weird considering it's supposed to be a double
22:57:49 * Warrigal reads about LISP and its special artificial intelligence capabilities
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23:03:40 <zuff> Warrigal: it has none. it's just symbolic processing
23:04:15 <Warrigal> Looks like evaluating (A B C D E ...) generally evaluates B, C, D, E, ..., then applies A to the results.
23:04:18 <Slereah-> Well, it's TC, it should be able to do it!
23:04:39 <oerjan> Warrigal: unless A is a macro / special form
23:06:09 <zuff> that's an error.
23:06:31 <oerjan> actually, in scheme the list is evaluated
23:06:42 <zuff> but then it errors
23:06:50 <oerjan> not if the result is a function
23:06:50 <Warrigal> So in "evaluates B, C, D, E, ...", I should have put A in there as well.
23:06:57 <zuff> oerjan: lists are not functions
23:07:02 <oerjan> Warrigal: for scheme, not common lisp
23:07:13 <oerjan> zuff: i meant a literal list
23:08:05 <oerjan> scheme is cleaner in that way, doesn't treat the first argument more specially than it has to
23:08:20 <oerjan> s/argument/list element/
23:09:00 <zuff> Lispers against the unethical treatment of cars
23:09:21 <Warrigal> "each list was a separate object that could be altered independently of other lists and could be distinguished from other lists by comparison operators." http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/LISP
23:09:55 <oerjan> mutable lists are a bit scary
23:10:06 <zuff> well yeah but nobody uses them :P
23:10:19 <zuff> Warrigal: lisp isn't purely functional
23:10:20 <oerjan> for functional programming you want immutability to be the default
23:11:21 <Warrigal> I can tell you that mathematical expressions are essentially purely functional, and natural languages like English approximate being purely functional.
23:11:46 <zuff> "I eat the cat."
23:12:43 <oerjan> fungot: long time no see
23:12:44 <fungot> oerjan: i know i often fnord and plugs his mouse to have more endurance than men.
23:13:26 <zuff> fizzie: is this the "kinky" database
23:13:31 <oerjan> ^ul (^^:^^^:^^^^^:^^^^^^:::^^^^^^^^:::^^^:^^^^::^)()~((())~:a~*):a~*~^!(~((!())(!:^(^)*)(!!:^(!^)*))~*^!!^):^(~((()())(:a~*:(*(!^)(:)S)~*~(!*(^)(^)S)~*):a~**((!^)~^!^)(!(^)~^^))~*^( )S!!a:(*)*~(~*)**^~*(()()(!)()(!)(:a~*:(!^(!^((!^)*)(!(^)*))(!^((^)*)(!(^)*)))~*~(!^(!^((!^)*)(!(^)*))(!^((^)*)(!(!^)*)))~*):^)~*^!!!!!!~:^):^
23:13:32 <fungot> ^^:^^^:^^^^^:^^^^^^:::^^^^^^^^:::^^^:^^^^::^ :^^^:^^^:::^^^::::^::^^::::::^::^^:^^^::^:^^ ^^:^^^:^::^^:^:::^^:^^^:::::^^:^^^^^:^:^^^^^ :^^^:^^^:^^^^^::^^^^^:^::::^^^^^:::^^^^^:::: ^^:^^^:^^^:::^:^^:::^^^:::^^:::^::^^:::^:::: ^^^^:^^^:^::^^^^^::^^:^::^^^::^^:^^^::^^:::^ :::^^^:^^^:^^:::^:^^^^^:^^:^:^^^^^:^:^^^::^^ ::^^:^^^: ...too much output!
23:14:15 <oerjan> nice fungot, doesn't treat chars as double
23:14:15 <fungot> oerjan: not the other way around. does that matter
23:14:16 <Slereah-> Could one person do some sort of double quine?
23:14:49 <zuff> olsner: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/7jeyz/please_for_the_love_of_guido_stop_using/c06tkyj nice trolling
23:14:52 <Slereah-> Like ^ul [stuff] generates +bf [things], which generates ^ul [stuff]
23:14:55 <oerjan> fungot still ignores thutubot
23:14:56 <fungot> oerjan: and support is a little too much stuff :p anything in the database
23:15:01 <zuff> yeah, fizzie, unignore our bots
23:15:25 <fungot> Available: agora alice darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* lovecraft pa speeches ss wp
23:16:26 <oerjan> zuff: There Is No Cabal
23:18:07 <zuff> dear audio software; please cease your fetish with real-looking interfaces with knobs and wires and metal and shit.
23:18:11 <oerjan> Slereah-: also double quines with ul at both ends are easier
23:18:46 <Slereah-> Well, that would be a simple quine, no?
23:19:09 <oerjan> Slereah-: not necessarily, you have to change between +ul and ^ul
23:19:25 <oerjan> and you could do other changes too
23:19:26 <fungot> Selected style: agora (a large selection of Agora rules, both current and historical)
23:20:08 <Warrigal> fungot, what is the airspeed velocity of the convective derivative of the position relative to the position of the air of an unladen swallow?
23:20:08 <fungot> Warrigal: conforming with the rules
23:20:15 <fungot> Warrigal: each active player highest in the context of the rule with the same
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23:20:53 <Warrigal> fungot, can you tell me how to be as smart as you?
23:20:54 <fungot> Warrigal: if a trial judge finds the crime of misrepresentation. all
23:21:45 <oerjan> ^ul ((^ul )(+ul ))(~:aS^:Sa~a*S:aSS)~:aS^:Sa~a*S:aSS
23:21:45 <fungot> ((^ul )(+ul ))+ul (+ul )(^ul )(~:aS^:Sa~a*S:aSS)~:aS^:Sa~a*S:aSS
23:22:50 <oerjan> ^ul ((^ul )(+ul ))(~^:Sa~a*:S:aSS)~^:Sa~a*:S:aSS
23:22:50 <fungot> +ul (+ul )(^ul )((+ul )(^ul ))(+ul )(^ul )
23:23:02 <oerjan> ^ul ((^ul )(+ul ))(~^:Sa~a*:aS:aSS)~^:Sa~a*:S:aSS
23:23:03 <fungot> +ul (+ul )(^ul )((+ul )(^ul ))(+ul )(^ul )
23:24:21 <oerjan> +ul (+ul )(:SaS:aS~aSS)(^ul ):SaS:aS~aSS
23:24:22 <thutubot> ^ul (^ul )(:SaS:aS~aSS)(+ul ):SaS:aS~aSS
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23:24:40 <oerjan> ^ul (^ul )(:SaS:aS~aSS)(+ul ):SaS:aS~aSS
23:24:41 <fungot> +ul (+ul )(:SaS:aS~aSS)(^ul ):SaS:aS~aSS
23:24:41 <thutubot> ^ul (^ul )(:SaS:aS~aSS)(+ul ):SaS:aS~aSS
23:25:02 <fizzie> ^ul (^ul )(+ul )(~:SaS~aSaS(:^)S):^
23:25:02 <fungot> +ul (+ul )(^ul )(~:SaS~aSaS(:^)S):^
23:25:03 <thutubot> ^ul (^ul )(+ul )(~:SaS~aSaS(:^)S):^
23:25:10 <fizzie> I did that quite a long time ago.
23:25:14 <zuff> fizzie: plz make fungot <3 thutubot
23:25:14 <fungot> zuff: the effect of altering the texts of rules,
23:25:27 <fizzie> Why? We'd have a bot-loop in just a couple of seconds.
23:25:45 <zuff> fizzie: just make it stop at 5 lines
23:25:47 <zuff> like it used to
23:26:07 <fizzie> I've never had a working flow-protection like that for non-chat stuff.
23:26:24 <fizzie> I'll consider it, but not today.
23:29:54 <oerjan> serg: you can do the text generation of egobot by hand too, you just don't get the automatic optimization.
23:31:29 <oerjan> but the format is +++++[>++++++>+++>++++++>+++<<<<-]+.>---.etc. where the loop sets up values near the ones you want to print out and the rest just moves between, incrementing and decrementing a little
23:33:59 <oerjan> ^bf ++++++++[>+++++++++>++++++++++++>++++++++++++++<<<-]>.>+++++.>---..+++.
23:34:09 <oerjan> ^bf ++++++++[>+++++++++>++++++++++++>++++++++++++++<<<-]>.>+++++.>----..+++.
23:34:17 * Warrigal makes sure there isn't a guy named serg who's on his ignore list
23:34:46 <Warrigal> There is a guy named serg, but not on my ignore list.
23:35:05 <oerjan> Warrigal: he asked that question before i entered
23:52:43 * zuff plays around with Propellerhead Reason. http://filebin.ca/gnyobd/durmz.aiff
23:58:03 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection).