00:00:41 happiness is mandatory 00:02:40 oerjan, :) 00:03:47 * oerjan wonders if AnMaster got the reference 00:04:02 oerjan, no 00:04:09 what reference? 00:04:48 it's from the Paranoia roleplaying game. if you're not happy, you're terminated. 00:05:04 oerjan: murphy just advertised his ParaNomic XP game. 00:05:11 nice coincidence :^) 00:05:53 * oerjan envisions color-coded rules 00:06:07 http://asynchronous.org/paranomic-xp/index.php?title=Main_Page & http://groups.google.com/group/paranomic-xp 00:08:01 finally spammers get the proper treatment 00:08:47 -!- GregorR has joined. 00:09:01 xchat crashed again! I can barely believe it! 00:09:09 http://www.safetyglassesusa.com/frosclearlen.html or http://safetyglassesusa.com/19742.html 00:10:21 http://www.safetyglassesusa.com/999999.html 00:20:58 genres are a stupid 00:21:01 also morning 00:24:55 evening 00:25:13 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 00:36:16 finally 00:36:20 logs have been read 00:36:43 lol 00:37:19 olopolo: Furthermore, 00:37:19 how insensitive. 00:38:03 Furthermore,? 00:38:20 oh. 00:38:21 yes. 00:38:23 Furthermore,. 00:38:25 well bye 00:39:38 olopolo: what 00:39:49 what. 00:40:02 olopolo: what 00:40:04 j is so awesome 00:40:18 k 00:40:30 understanding short code snippets is always an adventure 01:06:12 -!- devo has joined. 01:06:13 -!- devo has left (?). 01:19:35 so 01:19:59 my little honors thesis project basically involves a graph rewriting component 01:20:32 which i suppose means that, since graph rewriting languages are equivalent to turing machines 01:20:44 that my little model of language has the potential to be turing complete 01:20:45 :O 01:45:53 -!- EgoBot has joined. 01:46:03 !help 01:46:13 Promising. 01:46:31 ... it received it ... 01:46:35 -!- EgoBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:51:14 -!- EgoBot has joined. 01:51:18 !help 01:51:45 -!- EgoBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:53:29 -!- EgoBot has joined. 01:53:37 !help 01:53:45 OH COME ON 01:53:46 help ps kill i eof flush show ls bf_txtgen usertrig daemon undaemon 01:53:51 1l 2l adjust axo bch bf{8,[16],32,64} funge93 fyb fybs glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 unlambda whirl 01:54:09 Oh ... hm, now it's trying to spam blank lines 8-D 01:54:15 !raw QUIT 01:54:29 psygnisfive: col 01:54:35 -!- EgoBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:55:28 -!- olopolo has changed nick to oklopol. 01:55:28 -!- GregorR has quit (Remote closed the connection). 02:06:47 col? 02:08:32 it's a lazy cool 02:08:41 i see 02:09:33 The oklopol alphabet: bdhklopq 02:09:51 h isn't really my type 02:10:08 oblodohokloloplol 02:10:25 "pl" isn't right 02:11:08 bl is a bit iffy too 02:11:16 i wonder if we could do some statistics on oklopols various names to see if theres some general trends beyond only using o as a vowel 02:11:39 lets see 02:11:43 doo it 02:11:52 oklopol oklofok olopolo 02:11:59 what else 02:12:12 Clearly, we should only use certain digraphs. 02:12:28 Initial and final letters count as digraphs. You're not allowed to start with anything but o. 02:12:51 oklopol what else have you used 02:13:16 umm. 02:13:20 a lot of stuff. 02:13:32 tell me! 02:13:45 oklokok is #3, probably 02:13:54 oklokok is whats between your legs 02:14:04 but ok 02:14:10 oklopolofoko 02:14:20 oklopol oklofok olopolo oklokok 02:14:24 lol 02:14:27 psygnisfive: i don't see your point 02:14:36 yes, that's the etymology 02:15:07 I want to make a random oklopol generator. 02:15:26 so the regex so far is /olopolo|(oklo(pol|fok|kok))/ 02:15:48 we might expect that this generalizes to /olopolo|(oklo(p|f|k)o(l|k))/ 02:15:57 You're not going to make a regex that recognizes anything containing only those digraphs? 02:16:07 I did that once for the name "GreenReaper". The resulting regex was very long. 02:16:22 suggesting that you could also use oklopok, oklofol, oklokol, oklopok 02:16:36 i could. 02:16:43 warrigal: what digraphs? 02:16:45 On "oklopol" only: /o(klo|po)*l/ 02:16:46 and i think i have, at least a few of them 02:16:59 psygnisfive: the digraphs in "oklopol" and "oklofok" and "olopolo" and "oklokok". 02:17:33 you mean ok lo po ko and fo? 02:18:14 we have no evidence for the oklo name language being more general than that, warrigal 02:18:29 No, ok, kl, lo, op, po, ol, of, fo, ko, as well as initial o and final l, k, and o. 02:18:31 we just have olopolo, oklopol, oklofok, and oklokok 02:19:29 oklopol says might have also used some of oklopok, oklofol, oklokol 02:19:45 "fof" wouldn't really belong in the family 02:19:47 -!- oklopol has changed nick to fof. 02:19:51 but it's pretty cute. 02:19:54 :-) 02:20:07 so like i said it seems we might be able to generalize to /olopolo|(oklo(p|f|k)o(l|k))/ 02:20:28 oklopoll was my secondary nick at some point 02:20:36 with two l's? 02:20:45 yess 02:20:47 well thats an orthographic variant of l, lets say 02:21:08 i've also been oklodol and oklodok 02:21:12 maybe even oklodoll :D 02:21:24 hmm 02:21:25 ok: /olopolo|(oklo(d|p|f|k)o(ll?|k))/ 02:21:34 variantness would account for doll nicely too 02:22:15 fof: well, ofofofofo would fit. 02:22:27 Secondary stress on the first syllable, primary stress on the penultimate. 02:22:32 hey cool. i should make like a mirc script on that info 02:22:46 warrigal: it would fit what? 02:22:49 Warrigal: where do you get that? 02:22:51 your imagined digraph patterns? 02:22:59 none of his names display that pattern. 02:23:12 all of them except olopolo have oklo- prefix 02:23:14 all my nicks have primary stress on the first syllable 02:23:44 methinks warrigal is silly 02:23:57 well, that's just how he is 02:24:34 -!- fof has changed nick to oklodol. 02:24:38 ! 02:24:52 Now you have That Letter NetHack Uses To Represent Canines. 02:25:04 Actually, all canids, I think. Foxes are d, aren't they? 02:25:05 this is a rather gay nick 02:25:10 but i like it :| 02:25:23 i would probably use it a lot if it wasn't so gay 02:25:30 oklodol looks like a pill women take to prevent bloating 02:25:32 Warrigal: i don't play 02:25:37 midol, and its sister drug, oklodol 02:25:43 hehe 02:25:44 I wonder what makes a nick gay. 02:25:48 oklodoll is cuter 02:25:50 and defiitely gayer 02:25:56 much more suited to you, oklo. 02:26:18 i think dol is a cuter suffix 02:26:23 Does "gay" mean "embarrasing or perceived to be perverted" or something? 02:26:27 no 02:26:29 it means homosexual. 02:26:35 as in, "oklo-ish" 02:26:44 even tho hes oklosexual. 02:26:47 Warrigal: you don't know what gay means? :D 02:27:36 I don't think you meant "This nick kind of likes to have sex with other nicks of the same gender". 02:27:53 ofcourse thats what he meant 02:27:59 6!:2 '(6!:3) 3' 02:27:59 3.03061 02:28:03 * oklodol giggles 02:28:11 what? lol 02:28:23 yeah it's pretty funny :D 02:28:37 J? 02:28:45 yes, i hope you don't know it 02:28:50 because that sure as hell was not funny. 02:29:03 How gay would the nick "Warridal" be, then? 02:29:13 less so? 02:29:20 Less than "oklodol"? 02:29:21 i mean you're a warry gal 02:29:29 "kitty can scratch" 02:29:45 I hope nobody interprets the "gal" at the end as meaning I'm female. :-P 02:30:07 Maybe I should emphasise the pronunciation by changing it to "Warrigle" or something, even though it would no longer be spelled right. 02:30:08 for the purposes of assessing gayness they might 02:30:33 That "a" is just about silent, even. 02:30:38 how about WarryGal 02:30:52 yes, i know what pronunciation you're going for 02:31:11 don't assume i don't know everything, it's demeaning 02:31:29 Sorry, but aren't I supposed to be the all-knowing one in this conversation? 02:31:53 I find it most very offensive when you pretend I make mistakes. 02:32:33 i find it most offensive you're offended by your mom 02:32:46 You're like Hitler. 02:32:49 Glad that argument's over. 02:33:37 warrigal: its not about silent at all 02:33:54 its a schwa, not silence. 02:34:08 psygnisfive: he knows, he's lojbanese 02:34:12 Lojbanised: .UORigl. 02:34:19 ^ behold. 02:34:25 pfft 02:34:29 Except where the "i" is the lojban pretend-it-isn't-there i. 02:34:34 lojban is an ugly language 02:34:43 psygnisfive: that's hardly the point 02:34:48 the point is i read his mind 02:35:13 "this term, i've heard it in lojban contexts, let's lojban it up" 02:35:34 of course, that probably isn't what he thought, but that's hardly the point either 02:35:47 there is no point, only mindless characters 02:35:48 I haven't heard the word "Warrigal" in lojban contexts. 02:35:50 wandering around 02:35:53 (Alternatively, .UORigyl.) 02:36:20 i mean, he didn't actually seem to respond to schwa with that lojban comment 02:36:46 well. we will never know 02:37:02 7!:2 '+a' NB. But + (conjugate) does, even for a real array 02:37:02 576 02:37:08 lol okay *that* is funny 02:37:13 -!- psygnisfive has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 02:37:18 Is it .UORigl. or .UORigyl.? The world may never know. 02:37:24 -!- psygnisfive has joined. 02:37:27 -!- Judofyr has quit. 02:37:30 of course now it's not enough if you know j, you'd have to know what i'm talking about. 02:38:27 J is such an interesting language 02:38:45 is that trying to be sarcasm 02:38:50 nope! 02:38:53 i like J 02:38:55 good 02:38:57 its weird 02:38:58 yeah it's awesome 02:39:00 and thus wonderful 02:39:02 also 02:39:21 ive been tempted to try and design a lisp processor that doesn't simulate lisp with registers 02:39:32 but instead is actually a lisp machine 02:40:00 juno wudaimeen? 02:40:05 might be niec 02:40:39 i think eino 02:40:44 i mean, all the lisp processors ive seen are sort of register based 02:41:09 with stacks for storing register state for recursion and other nested function calls 02:41:24 but when you hand evaluate lisp you dont do this at all 02:41:36 yeah, whereas the processor should definitely understand regexes 02:41:43 lol 02:41:48 WHAT 02:41:48 obviously 02:41:52 DID I SAY REGEXES 02:41:55 THAT'S SO WHAT I MEANT. 02:42:09 i think processors should understand thue. 02:42:22 (i *occasionally* meant sexps) 02:42:28 also, earlier i realized why graph rewriting is obviously TC 02:43:35 why then? 02:43:58 because kolmogorov proved it or because you can encode thue in it? 02:43:59 * Warrigal decides to ignore this channel until someone says his name 02:44:03 Warrigal 02:44:12 * Warrigal decides to ignore this channel until someone says his name again 02:44:16 Warrigal 02:44:19 * Warrigal decides to ignore this channel until someone says his name again again 02:44:23 Warrigal 02:44:26 because you can trivially encode a Type-0 language in it 02:44:30 * Warrigal decides to ignore this channel for a while 02:44:33 * oklodol decides to get bored 02:44:41 hmm 02:44:46 i mean 02:45:01 a string is kind of just a graph that consists of only one chain 02:45:11 that's bad, ehird will so cling onto that. 02:45:16 abc is the graph ({a,b,c}, {(a,b),(b,c)}) 02:45:32 ehird: i did not get bored, i just meant i decide not to continue doing that. 02:45:33 obviously the string "aa" in a graph would need to be like 02:45:45 ({a1,a2},{(a1,a2)}) 02:45:48 ehird: sorry for confusing you, my life is still interesting 24/7. 02:46:52 yeah and you just hang things from the nodes of the path 02:46:54 to make characters 02:47:07 mm yeah that works even better 02:47:12 thus trivially encoding thue 02:47:15 you dont need to index your symbols 02:47:16 oh, you had another way? 02:47:27 i'm all queers 02:47:31 ... 02:47:34 whoops, must be the nick 02:47:40 I think the graph representing the string "aa" is best written like this: aa 02:47:55 warrigal, thats a bad representation of the string as a graph 02:48:10 I think you mean it's a bad representation of the graph as a string. 02:48:12 Warrigal: i read that as just one node eodermdrome 02:48:17 ... 02:48:18 lol 02:48:19 anyway 02:48:19 That has two nodes, labeled a and a, connected. 02:48:21 oklodol 02:48:26 instead of indexing the nodes like i suggested 02:48:33 *node as eodermdrome notation 02:48:49 you could just have a 1-to-1 correspondence between string-symbol and some graph-nodes 02:49:02 where the n's symbol corresponds to some node n 02:49:08 with the relevant connections 02:49:14 Here's a little star made of a's: aaa(aa)(aa)(aa)(aa)aa 02:49:21 Here's a little ring made of a's: a1aaaaa1 02:49:30 and just connect node i to the graph node that represents the symbol for string-symbol i 02:50:22 Warrigal: (aa) means a path that returns after )? 02:50:30 oklodol: yep. 02:50:35 -!- jayCampbell has joined. 02:50:49 esohi 02:51:01 Well, the last thing in the parentheses is not connected to the thing before the parentheses. 02:51:11 -!- GregorR has joined. 02:51:21 Warrigal: that's kinda like eodermdrome, except you have a prettier way to return from the depth-first descent 02:51:30 Warrigal: i know 02:51:34 This is inspired by SMILES. 02:51:56 oh. well i'm sure you could've invented it just as well. 02:52:05 I'm sure I could have. 02:52:30 This is an example of SMILES, I believe: CC(CC1=CC=CC=C1)NC 02:52:46 psygnisfive: sorry, i mentally ignored you for a moment, i tend to separate conversations like that 02:52:49 * oklodol reads 02:52:52 its ok :) 02:53:23 Looking at that, you can tell you have a couple of carbons, and then a branch with what appears to be an aromatic ring, and the other branch is nitrogen and then carbon. 02:53:59 The common name of that molecule is methamphetamine. 02:54:20 * Warrigal tries to come up with a SMILES for paracetamol 02:54:51 psygnisfive: so kinda like mine, except you have just one copy of each glyph-subgraph? 02:54:52 nevermind oklodol nevermind :p 02:54:52 :i 02:54:52 i do mind 02:54:53 hmm. can't be what you meant 02:54:54 or at least not with the kind of graph rewriting i'm thinking 02:54:54 you didn't really specify of course 02:55:01 im giving a formal mathematical definition to a mathematician friend 02:55:06 ill post it here if you want 02:55:11 psygnisfive: sure. 02:55:17 of course i'm only half-mathematician 02:56:12 Warrigal: i can't reverse-engineer ='s right now 02:56:13 ... 02:56:14 wait 02:56:18 i can with the explanation 02:56:50 this channel has certainly evolved 02:56:50 do *not* explain ='s. 02:56:54 pun only half intended 02:56:55 jayCampbell: from what to what 02:57:04 what pun 02:57:04 and also hi 02:57:13 i also mentally ignored you :) 02:57:24 and yeah, what pun? 02:57:25 CC(=O)NC1=CC=C(O)C=C1 02:57:42 "evolved", this looks like organic chemistry 02:57:49 oh okay. 02:57:55 kinda far-fetched 02:58:05 so. from what to what? 02:58:37 from brainfuck to brain stimulant production 02:58:40 i thought it is, and always has been, a bag of random. 02:59:03 jayCampbell: we produce less than you could ever imagine 02:59:14 such small amounts it's mindblowing 03:01:33 ok oklodol 03:01:44 you want my little proof that graph rewriting is TC? :) 03:02:03 My little proof that graph rewriting is TC is "Thue". 03:02:08 its beautifully trivial :D 03:02:15 well sure, if it's just you pasting a link 03:02:15 Yours is probably more interesting. 03:02:29 well, ill write it up and give you the link then 03:03:01 psygnisfive: you can write it here as well 03:03:18 well, i'd rather have it all together, not spread out between other convos anyway 03:03:18 so 03:03:27 understandable 03:23:24 -!- Dewi has joined. 03:26:17 hy 03:32:40 i think i should try sleeping again 03:32:43 cya -> 03:37:24 oklopol 03:37:29 oklodol 03:37:39 ...well yes? 03:37:40 http://www.wellnowwhat.net/graph_rewriting_tc_proof.html 03:37:41 done? 03:38:07 i'll just read the beginning, then go to sleep. 03:38:28 theres not much to it other that showing that strings can be mapped to graphs 03:38:58 once youve done that, its trivial to replace rules that use strings with rules that use graphs 03:42:35 obviously to be more complete we'd want some rule for deriving new node sets at each step but thats trivial and boring 03:42:46 -!- jayCampbell has left (?). 03:43:24 well i have no idea how to do the mapping to graph rewriting rules 03:43:32 but, i don't know what rewriting you use 03:43:35 there is no real mapping 03:43:47 the mapping is just replacing the rules s -> s' 03:43:53 with rules G_s -> G_s' 03:44:22 er 03:44:28 i'll just believe that works. 03:44:31 K_s -> K_s' 03:44:34 it does 03:44:39 because strings can become graphs 03:44:48 a substring is a subgraph 03:45:11 so any string that has the substring s can be made into a graph that has the subgraph K_s 03:45:43 yeah i'm almost there. 03:45:46 but seriously 03:45:47 sleep 03:45:50 night :) 03:45:54 almost 6 am 03:45:56 :< 03:46:05 tried sleeping at 0:00 03:46:07 slept till 2 03:46:12 asdfjksjdflkj 03:46:13 -> 03:57:04 so say i have the string abc, and the rewriting rule ab->cc, first of all i'd have the graph ({0,1,2,a,b,c}, {(a,b),(b,c),(0,a),(1,b),(2,c)}) to represent abc? 03:57:27 where 0 1 2 are the nodes that represent the string 03:57:34 and a b c represent the symbols 03:58:56 hahaha 03:58:56 -!- GregorR has quit (Remote closed the connection). 03:59:01 yes :) 03:59:10 actually i modified it so that the graph's V has all the symbols in A 03:59:16 just to make it cleaner. 03:59:18 no waittt 03:59:23 but yes 03:59:26 if i have 0 1 2 be the actual characters 03:59:37 then (0,1) (1,2) and not (a,b) (b,c) 03:59:45 well yes 04:00:03 obviously you'd want to have symbols that aren't integers 04:00:22 so constraint it that all the symbols are of the form [s] 04:00:23 anyway, then the rewriting rule would be ({3, 4, a, b}, {(3,4), (3,a), (4,b)}) -> ({5, 6, c}, {(5,6), (5,c), (6,c)})? 04:00:24 or whatever you want. 04:00:42 er what? 04:01:24 :) 04:01:27 dunno. you show me 04:01:43 also, obviously this doesnt take into account the fact that i could be different when you look at the string being rewritten and the substring 04:01:45 ok so 04:01:53 if you have some rule ab -> cc 04:01:57 you have the graph rule 04:02:33 -!- Sgeo has joined. 04:02:38 ({1, 2, a, b}, {(1, 2), (1, a), (2, b)}) -> ({1, 2, c}, {(1, 2), (1, c), (2, c)}) 04:02:42 I should do an esolang based on Active Worlds action lines 04:02:55 psygnisfive: hmm right. 04:03:32 but how does the graph rewriting work exactly? 04:03:38 what do you mean? 04:03:46 i mean obviously a, b and c are named nodes there 04:03:53 and 1, 2 aren't, they're variables 04:04:00 that can match any node 04:04:27 the node names are arbitrary. 04:04:41 just like i is arbitrary in a substring 04:04:52 i mean if not, then the first one could just as well be matching the string, not the string's two characters and the symbol nodes 04:04:54 the graphs there are subgraphs of some given graph in a derivation 04:05:19 if a and b aren't special then ({1, 2, a, b}, {(1, 2), (1, a), (2, b)}) will match any path of 4 nodes 04:05:21 just like the strings in the rule ab -> cc are substrings of a given string in a derivation 04:05:46 we could replace them with variables if you want, it doesn't matter. 04:05:54 hmm. 04:06:05 but... 04:06:06 the point is that strings can be mapped to graphs 04:06:32 i mean in the rule ({1, 2, a, b}, {(1, 2), (1, a), (2, b)}) -> ({1, 2, c}, {(1, 2), (1, c), (2, c)}), don't a, b and c necessarily have to refer to the same a, b and c as in the actual string 04:06:35 and any rule that rewrites some substring s1 .. sn as s1' ... sn' 04:06:46 can be rephrased to rewrite the equivalent subgraph 04:06:58 oklodol: what? 04:07:12 what what? 04:07:21 what do you mean the same a, b, and c as in the actual string? 04:07:32 in the graph construction of abc 04:07:45 what does that even mean tho? 04:07:55 that you're not just matching any path of 4 nodes. 04:08:16 that graph, firstly, is not a path of 4 nodes. 04:08:24 it's not? 04:08:27 its at most a graph of three nodes, but thats semi irrelevant 04:08:31 no, its a directed graph 04:08:36 oh. 04:08:50 that chages things. 04:08:53 :P 04:08:56 *changes 04:08:56 dumbass 04:09:08 yes, and still i'm not satisfied 04:09:09 i mean 04:09:16 still, the same question 04:09:25 and i too still give you the same question 04:09:28 what does that even mean 04:09:30 are a, b and c variables there, or can they just refer to any node in the original string 04:09:33 's graph 04:09:37 oklodol 04:09:41 a, b, and c are symbols. 04:09:45 in the alphabet. 04:09:50 think of it like this 04:09:57 and the graph knows that? 04:10:11 the graph doesnt have to 04:10:49 because no rule will ever rewrite an alphabet node. 04:11:08 it only rewrites the string symbol nodes. 04:11:23 just think of it like this oklopol 04:11:32 your have one node for every symbol in the alphabet 04:11:43 collect all of these nodes at the bottom of your visual picture of the graph 04:11:54 above these you have a chain of nodes 1->2->...->n 04:12:06 for each symbol in a string 04:12:32 and each has a link to its symbol 04:12:34 and from each of these nodes you have an edge pointing to the alphabet symbol node 04:12:48 i know, i read your thing. 04:12:51 ok 04:12:55 so then why is this confusing? 04:12:57 it's the rewriting i don't understand 04:13:00 well. 04:13:16 kinda hard to explain it :) 04:13:26 wish i could just draw it on paper. 04:13:29 thats probably because you dont know what you mean :) 04:13:33 ok go and draw it 04:13:37 i know exactly what i mean 04:13:41 use an online whiteboard if you want 04:14:01 ill gladly watch and tell you you're wrong :p 04:14:07 -!- GregorR has joined. 04:14:08 that in the rewrite rule, you have to match any two nodes that are connected to each other, and two two certain symbol nodes 04:14:14 WTF XCHAT 04:14:16 WTF 04:14:29 so these symbol nodes need to be named in the rule, they can't just be variables that match any nodes 04:14:41 oklopol: what? 04:14:44 because otherwise any two adjacent characters would match any rule of length 2 04:14:52 except oklopol 04:14:55 in the graphs 04:15:04 a and b and so on are not variables 04:15:14 they're symbols in the alphabet 04:15:40 ...so 1, 2... are variables in the rewriting system, and a, b... are constants? 04:16:08 i don't care what their semantics are 04:16:08 -!- GregorR has quit (Remote closed the connection). 04:16:08 a and b are the symbols in the alphabet 04:16:13 i mean 04:16:16 there's no alphabet 04:16:21 Ok, here's my translation of AW into an esolang. I don't have any syntax, because I don't want to steal Active Worlds syntax 04:16:24 i'm asking how the graph rewriting works 04:16:25 there IS an alphabet, oklodol 04:16:31 Objects can have names. Names aren't unique 04:16:38 what are the exact semantics of the graph rewriting 04:16:47 do those consider a and b different from 1 and 2 in the rules 04:16:52 As an action, an object can set a timer on itself or on objects with a certain name 04:17:10 1 and 2 are just the names for the nodes in the subgraph. 04:17:21 These timers are the only real way for objects to communicate, other than setting text on them which can serve as output, but cannot be read by objects 04:17:27 just like s_1 and s_2 are the names for the symbols in a substring 04:17:38 psygnisfive: just give me the exact graph rewriting semantics, that's the only way 04:17:45 i did! 04:17:50 oh. 04:17:53 why do you have such a hard time understanding this? 04:18:08 i always do. 04:18:13 When the timer goes off on an object, it might take an action, such as changing its name or setting a timer 04:18:38 psygnisfive: i mean 04:18:47 i don't see why a and b in the rewriting rules 04:18:48 Actions might also be triggered by a click, or when the object is created 04:18:52 What can be done with this? 04:18:53 would only match the nodes a and b 04:18:56 Is it turing complete? 04:19:01 but the nodes 1 and 2 in the rewriting rules 04:19:03 match any two nodes 04:19:07 oklodol 04:19:08 what? 04:19:15 a and b are nodes. 04:19:22 I guess no one's noticing me 04:19:34 if nothing matches any two nodes, and not just some named nodes, the amount of nodes will never increase) 04:19:39 *(if 04:19:39 1 and 2 are also nodes, but they're variables not actual nodes 04:19:44 err. 04:19:55 so 1 and 2 are different from a and b, in the rewriting rules? 04:20:17 in the same way that s_1 and s_2 are different from a and b in string rewriting rules 04:20:21 the real question: are you leaving some semantics of string rewriting in the graph rewriting stage? 04:20:32 psygnisfive: okay. that's what i asked in the first place 04:20:40 oklodol, there is nothing confusing about this 04:20:43 just shut up and calculate. 04:20:45 stop thinking. 04:20:45 06:03… oklodol: i mean obviously a, b and c are named nodes there 04:20:45 06:03… oklodol: and 1, 2 aren't, they're variables 04:20:46 theres no thinking. 04:20:57 I SAID THEY WERE VARIABLES AGES AGO 04:20:59 you didn't say the rewriting system allows that 04:21:12 it allows it in the same way that it allows it in string rewriting 04:21:26 yeah, but you don't need that for getting it tc 04:21:30 so i didn't just assume it. 04:21:38 i asked, you didn't answer 04:21:41 you sort of do oklopol 04:21:43 when you write a rule like 04:21:45 ab -> cc 04:21:55 what you're saying is not just ab -> cc 04:22:00 what you're saying is really 04:22:22 a substring s_1 s_2, where s_1 is an instance of a, and s_2 is an instance of b 04:22:29 so, where did you clearly say a and b are symbols *in the graph rewriting language*? 04:22:33 can be replaced with the substrinct s_1 s_2 where s_1 and s_2 are both instances of c 04:23:11 because i thought you were talking about them being symbols in the string rewriting language 04:23:20 with strings this doesnt have to be as explicitly stated because a symbol can occur multiple times in a string in any order you want 04:23:40 so its like a tuple, or more accurately, a set {(symbol, index), ...} 04:24:00 Sgeo: say it again so that I can pay attention to you this time. 04:24:01 psygnisfive: yes, i understand all this perfectly. 04:24:07 oklodol, the graph language and the string language are identical in some regard. 04:24:16 ok so oklopol 04:24:20 if you accept that a string can be 04:24:25 psygnisfive: saying that would've made this clear 04:24:28 {(1, a), (2, b), ...} 04:24:41 * Warrigal reads what Sgeo's already said instead of waiting for him to say it again 04:24:48 notice that this is EXACTLY a subset of the edge set for the equivalent graph 04:25:41 So objects can have names, names aren't unique, an object can set a timer on itself or on objects with a certain name, these timers are the only way for objects to communicate, and when the timer goes off on an object, it might take an action. 04:25:49 Precisely what Sgeo said, of course. 04:25:58 oklodol: saying so would've restated what should've been obvious :P 04:26:23 Hmm... 04:26:34 Objects can also take actions if clicked 04:26:37 I can see implementing a Minsky machine with that. 04:26:42 Minsky? 04:26:50 http://www.vjn.fi/pb/p665516556.txt 04:26:53 The number of objects named A is the value in register A, etc. 04:27:03 Can't count number of objects named A 04:27:14 You don't need to be able to count. 04:27:23 What you do need to be able to do, however, is decrement... 04:27:36 Hm 04:27:39 "that's ok, I was assuming you had a brain" 04:27:45 So no, that doesn't work. 04:27:51 psygnisfive: you don't have to explain anymore, i just didn't know you could have both named nodes and variable nodes, because you didn't show that in the rewrite rules in any way 04:28:00 oklopol 04:28:07 You can have individual objects name themselves to something else 04:28:10 -!- Corun has joined. 04:28:13 you have named symbols and variable symbols in string rewriting. 04:28:14 But it would be a fixed number that could do that 04:28:39 I suppose I should describe the actual action line of AW, that might clarify things? 04:28:45 i mean, look oklopol 04:28:49 In an action line, there are triggers for commands 04:28:49 If you have a bunch of identical objects, can they possibly be distinguished, ever? 04:29:03 Can you make an arbitrary number of non-identical objects? 04:29:08 if you accept that the string "xabx" is really something like {(1, x), (2, a), (3, b), (4, x)} 04:29:11 If the answer to both of those is no, it's probably not Turing-complete. 04:29:20 -!- GregorR has joined. 04:29:25 Technically, in AW, not an arbitrary number, due to space limitations, but let's ignore that 04:29:27 then the rewrite rule ab -> cc would be really 04:29:40 {(1, a), (2, b)} -> {(1, c), (2, c)} 04:29:48 identical objects can technically be distinguished, if the viewer can't see some of them 04:30:04 Then they're not very identical, are they. 04:30:09 psygnisfive: yes, so? 04:30:10 but {(1, a), (2, b)} is not a subset of {(1, x), (2, a), (3, b), (4, x)} 04:30:19 so how can it match a substring of {(1, x), (2, a), (3, b), (4, x)}? 04:30:19 Let's ignore that too 04:30:25 May I describe the action line? 04:30:27 because 1 and 2 are variables 04:30:30 exactly 04:30:32 Ignore that method of distinguishing them? 04:30:33 ... 04:30:37 so you had variables in string rewriting already 04:30:37 triggers are create, activate, bump, and adone 04:30:44 commands are things like animate 04:30:51 You might have in an object 04:31:00 psygnisfive: and why the fuck would i assume you assume the semantics from string rewriting stay once you get into the graph rewriting? 04:31:02 you just dont SHOW it because its obvious what you mean 04:31:08 create name a, animate me . 1 1 0; adone visible no 04:31:21 If you can't have an infinite number of non-identical objects, the only way to store infinite data is in the number of each type of object. 04:31:25 psygnisfive: no it's not. 04:31:27 nothing is obvious. 04:31:39 That creates a name a, and sets a timer on itself for 0 seconds. When the timer goes off (adone), it goes invisible 04:31:56 me can be changed to something else to trigger adone on a different object 04:31:56 well you would assume that, oklodol, because we're mapping strings to graphs 04:31:58 Make any sense? 04:32:03 if you write something formal, i will read it formally, you didn't distinguish between the nodes of the rewriting rules, why would i. 04:32:10 and matching subgraphs, just like matching substrings, HAS FUCKING VARIABLES 04:32:14 it always has 04:32:22 psygnisfive: yes, but it doesn't need to have constants 04:32:32 and when i tried to ask if maybe you have those 04:32:34 it has constants only as much as strings have constants. 04:32:35 * Warrigal nods 04:32:40 you just started spouting trivialities 04:32:43 then insulting me 04:33:26 if i spout trivialities its because the answers to your questions are trivial. 04:33:36 yeah fuck you too 04:33:42 sleepy time, i got my answer -> 04:33:47 An arbitrary number of non-identical objects can be made, but not dynamically 04:33:59 hey, you're the one who didnt realize i said it has variables even immediately after i fucking said it has variables 04:34:05 i cant help it if you're not reading my answers. 04:34:22 so dont give me this shit about how im being an asshole. 04:34:48 i mean, we're talking about graph rewriting, oklopol 04:34:58 ofcourse it has pattern matching with variables 04:35:03 why? because its graph rewriting! 04:35:08 any rewriting system has this 04:41:04 there i've changed it for you oklopol 04:42:02 yeah like i could sleep 04:42:04 :P 04:42:23 fucking log link 04:42:32 ? 04:42:34 like i'm not pissed off enough 04:42:49 Warrigal, so, this means no turing completeness? 04:42:55 breathe, oklodol. this is nothing to be pissed off about 04:43:05 Sgeo: sounds likely. 04:43:14 What can be done? 04:43:20 BRB 04:43:21 -!- oklodol has set topic: logs >>> http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ <<< seriously, i want them here.. 04:44:46 oklodol 04:44:53 does the new version satisfy you? 04:46:04 psygnisfive: what new version? 04:46:08 i told you 04:46:13 i rewrote the proof for you. 04:46:23 and yes, it's definitely something to be pissed about 04:46:30 no, its really not 04:46:34 you were quite directly calling me an idiot 04:47:02 because you were being one. 04:47:07 after fucking writing a formal reduction, and then assuming "obvious" things. 04:47:15 psygnisfive: relink 04:47:23 wait no need 04:47:29 Warrigal, I think I have a way to decrement 04:47:38 i assumed nothing more than what was already assumed by the fact that were talking about graph rewriting 04:47:48 which already assumes pattern matching 04:47:56 Have a bunch of objects, one named d0, one named d1, one named d2 04:48:11 Each one can... hm, n/m 04:48:57 Actually 04:49:42 psygnisfive: yes, but it doesn't necessarily need anything but variables. which is why i asked whether there were constants. you didn't answer, so really, maybe i was ignorant of how graph rewriting works outside the eso community, but i definitely wasn't an idiot. 04:49:49 because of that. 04:49:58 ofcourse it requires constants, oklodol 04:50:02 no it doesn't 04:50:16 well, graph rewriting in general doesnt, no. 04:50:34 but thats really irrelevant. 04:51:30 yes, the only thing that's relevant is i can't sleep because i'm so fucking pissed :D 04:51:50 masturbate to thoughts of hurting me. 04:51:53 Each object can have a certain set of actions happen when the timer goes off, but only one set of actions can be specified 04:51:54 and really, it doesn't matter how many times you tell me i really was an idiot 04:52:03 i do not agree 04:52:06 and i just get more pissed 04:52:15 you're an idiot 04:52:15 you're an idiot 04:52:16 you're an idiot 04:52:18 you're an idiot 04:52:20 you're an idiot 04:52:30 now go jerk off to fantasies of smacking me. 04:52:33 we'll both me pleased. 04:52:38 be* 04:53:00 I mean, even with the same name, different objects can have different actions 04:53:08 But that doesn't really help, does it Warrigal? 04:53:08 glah. i need to see a shrink 04:53:12 no 04:53:17 you need to jerk off to fantasies of abusing me. 04:53:50 i can't. because i can't do anything. because i'm so fucking pissed. 04:53:56 :D 04:54:09 irc is fun 04:54:27 irc irks? 04:54:43 vox vexes? 04:55:30 well, you irk, irc just makes it harder to do anything about it. 04:55:46 i speak nothing but the truth! 04:56:06 if it irks you, then the truth irks you, not me! 04:56:57 no. 04:57:02 :3 04:57:18 you're an idiot and i'm ignoring you for... 5 minutes. 04:57:25 lol 04:57:34 OOOOH YOU MAKE ME SO PISSED 04:57:34 Warrigal, awake? 04:57:35 :P 04:57:37 can't do longer than that before i'll read logs anyway. 04:57:49 Sgeo: so. i think i could try to read your thing now :P 04:57:52 -!- Corun has left (?). 04:58:01 Sgeo: I think so. 04:58:10 can result in long mental ignores when i lose my calm. 04:59:15 If you want the most accurate description, try http://wiki.activeworlds.com/index.php?title=Object_Scripting 04:59:20 I want to make an esolang out of it 05:03:15 http://wiki.activeworlds.com/index.php?title=Animate is the timer and inter-object interaction I was referring to 05:05:11 maybe i should just give up and start reading my book or something 05:05:25 i mean i could sleep only for like 4 hours anyway 05:10:37 Sgeo: so what would the primitives+semantics be then? 05:10:58 primitives would be objects 05:11:19 Semantics would be AWish 05:11:46 Well, the sign command would display output 05:12:21 oklopol: read The Spartans 05:12:25 or Guns, Germs, and Steel 05:12:27 or Collapse 05:12:36 Just don't want to copy AW syntax, since I'd like something workable by sane people 05:13:27 how's that a way to make an esolang, making things saner? 05:15:03 I mean, unless you want code like 05:15:15 create animate me . 1 1 0, astart 05:15:18 05:15:22 some more stuff 05:15:45 In an esolang, it should not be animate me 05:15:48 probably 05:17:58 And the esolang should be easier to write in than AW 05:21:08 Bye all 05:21:09 well i didn't really read that link, so i'm not sure what animate me is. 05:21:12 oh 05:21:13 well bye 05:21:26 oklodol, animate me sets the timer on the object 05:21:39 animate a would set a timer on all objects named "a" 05:21:48 What happens after is specified by the receiving object's adone 05:22:00 rught 05:22:02 *right 05:22:08 Thing is, the syntax of AW's animate is ugly 05:22:14 and that callback is what, like a function? 05:22:21 It's a trigger 05:22:34 what's a trigger 05:22:53 create, activate, bump, and adone are triggers. you might have create sign hi 05:22:55 For example 05:23:09 which means as soon as the object comes into view, it's a sign with the text "hi" 05:23:24 adone is a trigger like create, but it comes into play when the timer goes off 05:23:48 Thing is, the animate syntax has stuff that's not relevent to an esolang 05:23:55 animate me 1 1 1000 05:24:04 The 1 and 1 refer to frame stuff 05:24:17 1000 is the time in miliseconds 05:25:40 delays would make a cool way to do control flow 05:26:28 The delay can be 0 05:26:51 and animate is the only meaningful way for objects to interact with eachother 05:27:04 I mean, objects can make other objects signs, but for our purposes that's not interaction 05:28:11 psygnisfive: i don't read fiction 05:28:22 ey? 05:28:25 they're not fiction 05:28:38 The Spartans is a history of Sparta 05:28:38 oh. assumed they were 05:28:42 ah 05:28:56 well history not so much. 05:29:13 Guns, Germs, and Steel is a book about large-scale historical trends, namely why European nations went on to conquer the world and become enormously powerful and wealthy but noone else did 05:29:20 i consider it fiction that is considered to actually have happened, which is worse than just fiction 05:29:27 and Collapse is about why some societies face severe decline while others dont 05:29:36 faced*/didn't* 05:29:38 because the reality isn't that interesting 05:29:41 hmm 05:29:58 well. collapse might work. 05:30:05 GGS is good too 05:30:08 i'm all for stuff that's abstract 05:30:15 you can actually watch a show version of it 05:30:17 having to do with europe is a big minus 05:30:28 well, its not so much having to do with europe 05:30:33 its more having to do with the WORLD 05:30:49 and the fact of the world is that european culture is so and so while others arent 05:30:59 well that's not really my thing, i prefer theoretical worlds 05:31:05 most of the thing is about OTHER societies and why they couldn't rise to be enormously powerful 05:31:10 but i might enjoy it, hard to say not having read it. 05:31:21 that's always a problem with everything 05:31:22 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bgnmT-Y_rGQ 05:31:22 g2g 05:31:25 part 1 of the video version 05:31:28 bye Sgeo 05:31:33 its only 3 hours long so 05:31:34 Bye 05:32:06 psygnisfive: well. k that does sound interesting. 05:32:41 it's just usually things other than math rarely say anything i don't consider trivial 05:32:55 :p 05:33:14 or the Collapse talk: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lmZqW_xh_eA 05:34:13 i mean there are interesting things to be said about all subjects, and of course authors have something to say, otherwise they wouldn't have written the book; it's just most of it is just build-up 05:34:17 you can't do that with math 05:34:32 oklodol, one thing im really interested in doing is like creating a mathematical history 05:34:33 like 05:34:37 if there's no content, the reader will actually notice 05:34:47 a model of historical change thats almost mathematical in nature 05:35:00 i think thats sort of Jared Diamonds idea 05:35:07 (hes the guy who wrote GGS and Collapse) 05:35:40 well i like (formalizing all things) equally 05:35:46 :) 05:35:50 wait. 05:35:51 i REALLY want to formalize memetics 05:36:02 that grouping might be a bit wrong there. 05:36:11 yes it is ;) 05:36:14 blah. i'm so fucking tired 05:36:24 * psygnisfive pets oklodol 05:36:57 could you explain what the difference between the two parsings is 05:37:10 i mean 05:37:16 sure 05:37:21 god i'm in such a coma. 05:37:24 the difference is that yours is unparsable :) 05:37:44 for all things, the amount of how much i like to formalize them is the same 05:37:51 :p 05:37:53 and not that i like (formalizing things equally) 05:38:05 lol 05:38:24 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 05:38:34 just thought that might require clearing up, ended up sticking parens in random places and confusing the whole world. 05:39:13 but, anyway 05:39:34 i'm not actually going to read those books, even though i don't have anything against reading the latter two in principle 05:40:00 there's enough stuff to read about the things i actually care about 05:42:29 also i'm much less pissed. which is good. i should stop ircing, it's dangerous. 05:43:36 also i should get something to drink, and start reading 05:43:48 this has been a pretty pointless night : D 05:43:49 -> 05:58:06 -!- Asztal has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 05:58:47 -!- CakeProphet has joined. 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:09:42 -!- kar8nga has joined. 08:30:38 -!- Mony has joined. 08:33:22 hi 08:34:19 as i said, the relevant relations in modern binding theory in minimalism atleast are coreference and c-command 08:34:23 whoops 08:34:24 D: 08:55:56 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 08:56:37 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 08:56:52 -!- kar8nga has left (?). 08:57:19 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (Remote closed the connection). 09:45:22 -!- oerjan has joined. 09:58:17 -!- kar8nga has joined. 09:58:26 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote closed the connection). 11:57:23 -!- Judofyr has joined. 12:23:00 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 12:35:03 o 12:37:59 -!- rodgort has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 13:02:46 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 13:26:08 -!- LinuS has joined. 13:32:16 -!- ehird has left (?). 13:32:24 -!- ehird has joined. 13:32:26 -!- ehird has left (?). 13:32:30 -!- ehird has joined. 13:32:32 -!- ehird has left (?). 13:32:36 -!- ehird has joined. 13:32:38 -!- ehird has left (?). 13:32:42 -!- ehird has joined. 13:34:28 -!- rodgort has joined. 13:51:07 -!- flexo has quit (Read error: 145 (Connection timed out)). 14:03:31 ^bf +++++++++++++++++++++++++[-]+++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++.+. 14:03:31 ab 14:03:48 yessssssssssssssss, it worked 14:20:08 why the loop? 14:20:18 puzzlet: to delay it while I disconnected/reconnecte 14:20:19 d 14:20:28 I found a bug in my IRC client's bouncer quicklog processing code. 14:20:35 ^ jargon for the sake of it 14:20:39 So I had to disconnect before it replied. 14:20:51 k 14:37:34 fungot: int main(void) 14:37:35 KingOfKarlsruhe: and granted p5 isn't as elegant as haskell or ocaml's versions.) both can accept optional trailing step arguments through ( by step). 14:38:00 fungot: show tables; 14:38:01 KingOfKarlsruhe: for some x y. you cannot modify a variable i starting at 0 ( and both variables hold the same value); ( :range variable (index index-variable)), which is implemented 14:38:10 ^style 14:38:11 Available: agora alice darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* lovecraft pa speeches ss wp 14:38:16 ^style darwin 14:38:16 Selected style: darwin (Books by Charles Darwin -- you know, that evilution guy) 14:38:23 fungot: 14:38:23 ehird: my dear lyell, yours gratefully, charles darwin. 14:40:18 ^style fisher 14:40:19 Selected style: fisher (Fisher corpus of transcribed telephone conversations) 14:40:22 ah. 14:40:26 fungot: *BEEP* 14:40:26 ehird: ( ( i don't noise lately noise i haven't 14:40:36 ^style ss 14:40:36 Selected style: ss (Shakespeare's writings) 14:40:38 ^style pa 14:40:38 Selected style: pa (around 1200 transcribed Penny Arcade comics) 14:40:46 (sorry, fungot, but your style names are confusing) 14:40:46 ehird: what are dante's guns called again? 14:40:51 fungot: x 14:40:52 ehird: that depends. how much do you have any big plans for sunday? someone else go. doom 3 comes out tomorrow. 14:41:01 I think it's basically going verbatim here. 15:23:11 -!- moozilla has joined. 15:26:53 -!- moozilla has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 15:28:33 -!- rinsmaster has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 15:36:39 -!- moozilla has joined. 15:39:20 -!- moozilla has quit (Connection reset by peer). 15:42:48 -!- oklodol has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:54:02 -!- flexo has joined. 16:00:05 -!- Mony has quit ("reboot XChat"). 16:00:23 -!- Mony has joined. 16:19:17 -!- Judofyr_ has joined. 16:23:23 -!- moozilla has joined. 16:27:18 -!- Judofyr has quit (Read error: 148 (No route to host)). 16:38:36 wow this code would make AnMaster squirm 16:38:45 oh? 16:38:48 what code 16:39:38 AnMaster: Here's the first part of it. 16:39:38 #define pp(x,t) (fpp(stdout, t, x)) 16:39:39 #define fpp(s,t,x) (_fpp((s), ((void *)(x)), (#t), (#x))) 16:39:41 void _fpp(FILE *, void *, char *, const char *); 16:39:49 ehird, where is it from? 16:39:56 Old code I wrote. 16:40:06 ehird, IOCCC? 16:40:12 well not that much 16:40:18 Nah, it actually does something useful. 16:40:23 ehird, oh? What? 16:40:24 I'll pastie the actual .c 16:40:29 nice 16:40:45 http://pastie.org/private/kkghpnoxj3g4sn6hgjotla That header part + this. It's a debug prettyprinter 16:40:47 Use like: 16:40:57 pp(thing, type) 16:41:00 e.g. pp(3, int) 16:41:04 pp("hello world", char *) 16:41:07 outputs, I think: 16:41:09 3 = 3 16:41:09 and 16:41:13 where are those defines you pasted? 16:41:14 in here 16:41:17 "hello world" = hello world 16:41:22 AnMaster: in the header file libstuff.h 16:41:25 ah 16:41:34 you can also do e.g. 16:41:35 pp(2+2, int) 16:41:37 and it'd output 16:41:41 2+2 = 4 16:42:00 ehird, to me it looks like you are basically re-implementing fprintf with an alternative syntax 16:42:03 -!- Judofyr_ has changed nick to Judofyr. 16:42:08 AnMaster: no. 16:42:13 It prints out the expression. 16:42:17 hm 16:42:20 I didn't want the type argument at first 16:42:24 ah quite cool code 16:42:24 But I think typeof failed somehow 16:42:42 It was to feed my 'print debugging' habit. :P 16:42:53 hrrm if gcc you could get rid of the type argument by using typeof(), but it didn't work? 16:42:54 huh 16:43:05 I'll add in typeof and see what breaks 16:43:10 -!- moozilla has quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:43:11 Assuming this code compiles. 16:43:13 also typeof() isn't a good thing in a portable project of course 16:43:20 but that may not be your goal 16:43:21 #ifndef __GNUC__ 16:43:21 # error libstuff is only tested with gcc, proceed at your own risk. 16:43:23 :P 16:43:33 ehird, heh, what does this libstuff actually do? 16:43:42 It was just a random collection of shtuff. 16:43:50 ehird, oh and you know ICC and several other ones define __GNUC__ 16:43:53 Like #define streq(x,y) (strcmp((x), (y)) == 0) 16:43:56 AnMaster: that's their problem 16:44:08 ehird, hah it was me that said that some time ago to you 16:44:10 about clang 16:44:35 AnMaster: actually, I agree with myself there 16:44:46 it's needed, practically, but it's their problem if something breaks 16:44:59 % ./example 16:45:00 zsh: bus error ./example 16:45:01 huh. 16:45:06 ehird, also that streq, can't see how it differs from a plain if (!strcmp(x, y)) 16:45:15 AnMaster: it doesn't , it's just sugar 16:45:18 ah right 16:45:33 ehird, bus error? 16:45:33 wtf 16:45:36 AnMaster: segfault 16:45:40 ah 16:45:45 err not exactly 16:45:48 ALTERNATIVELY: the programmer was run over by a bus 16:45:51 SIGBUS != SIGSEGV 16:46:00 both exist and are separate 16:46:10 it's SIGSEGV, i think. 16:46:10 though SIGBUS is extremely rare on x86 16:46:16 Think it's a Darwin thing. 16:46:19 ah 16:46:20 or BSD 16:46:29 or zhs 16:46:30 *zsh 16:46:38 well I have seen SIGBUS on some non-x86 systems, think it was an ALPHA or MIPS or such 16:46:53 but never on x86 16:47:01 wonder why this is segfaulting 16:47:07 ehird, try gdb? 16:47:17 I think gcc expands typeof at cpp time, right? 16:47:25 -!- moozilla has joined. 16:47:37 ehird, err I think it ends up as __builtin_typeof, but I may be wrong 16:47:42 so probably at compiling stage 16:47:48 but not at runtime indeed 16:47:50 afaik 16:47:59 but I may be wrong 16:48:05 ((_fpp(((&__sF[1])), ((void *)( "hello world")), (# typeof(("hello world"))), (# "hello world")))); 16:48:09 XD 16:48:18 That's some ugly expansion. 16:48:22 agreed 16:48:32 and I don't even plan to try to make sense of it 16:48:32 also 16:48:57 typeof(("hello world")) <-- 1) no idea if the extra () affects it, probably not, 2) the type would be const * char I think 16:49:09 ah, probably the const tripped things up 16:49:41 Hm, some PHP I wrote semi-recently. Why did I do that? 16:50:10 ehird, that is why using -Wwrite-strings is a good idea, since all compiler and the C spec (even C89 iirc) say that using char * foo = "my string constant"; is deprecated 16:50:16 should be const char * foo 16:50:25 AnMaster: Yeah, but nobody really cares. 16:50:31 I sure don't. 16:50:47 ehird, well, you can run into issues with it, like if you try to modify that char* 16:50:55 Solution: don't do that. 16:51:12 ehird, I'm all for being able to find issues at compile time rather than runtime :) 16:51:24 C is not exactly the language for that. 16:51:30 true 16:51:41 you probably want ADA for it or some language like that 16:51:48 Or haskell. 16:52:08 indeed. Oh and I started a bit, but I had so much to do, but I'm in no hurry 16:53:00 ehird, anyway your debugging formatting code is an interesting idea 16:53:25 ooh, an unfinished interpreter. 16:53:33 * ehird is rummaging thru ~/Code 16:53:36 ehird, for what lang, in what lang? 16:53:44 heh I use ~/src 16:53:46 Own invention, in C. 16:54:09 wasn't a very good one though. 16:54:14 heh 16:54:19 esolang? 16:54:21 Specifically: it didn't work. 16:54:23 AnMaster: nah 16:54:33 ok, what type of lang then? 16:54:45 Kind of like Ruby, but smaller and more consistent. 16:55:03 a pitty it didn't work then 16:55:24 I should have specced it and let the HUGE OPEN SOURCE COMMUNITY write the implementation for me. 16:55:49 ehird, for that to work you need to make your 0.0.1 yourself first 16:56:03 $ cat main.c \n int main() { return 0; } 16:56:04 done 16:56:09 haha 16:56:25 Hm, a tcl-alike. 16:57:05 Agh, I really want to finish that sometime 16:57:12 -!- Judofyr_ has joined. 16:57:13 (C program in, graph of function calls and other flow out.) 16:58:28 TCL-like!? 16:58:30 wtf 16:58:35 er 16:58:38 that was two seperate things 16:58:39 tcl is like php... 16:58:44 what 16:58:46 no it is not.. 16:58:52 ehird, as in "horrible" 16:58:53 IMO 16:59:02 AnMaster: maybe you haven't looked in to it 16:59:04 it's quite elegant. 16:59:16 see http://antirez.com/articoli/tclmisunderstood.html 16:59:20 ehird, oh yes I have, for eggdrop thing 16:59:29 eggdrop is horrible _in general_ 16:59:33 indeed 16:59:36 you can make any language awful 16:59:52 also interesting: http://antirez.com/page/picol.html tcl in 100 lines of c 17:00:25 see http://antirez.com/articoli/tclmisunderstood.html <-- times out 17:00:30 hmm ditto. 17:00:39 Solution: 17:00:43 both of them do 17:00:51 sec 17:01:03 http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache%3Ahttp%3A%2F%2Fantirez.com%2Farticoli%2Ftclmisunderstood.html&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:hu:official&client=firefox-a 17:01:09 yeah 17:01:09 :P 17:01:45 http://209.85.229.132/search?q=cache:wCtmFEnuu0MJ:antirez.com/page/picol.html+http://antirez.com/page/picol.html&hl=en&ct=clnk&cd=1 ah, actually 550 lines 17:01:46 still impressive 17:01:50 -!- moozilla has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 17:02:19 ehird, bbl food is ready 17:10:20 ehird, hm about tcl, it has certain similarities to shell scripting, the "command space parameter space parameter..." bit for example, and yes there are more langs than shell and tcl that use that 17:10:33 however I don't think that looks good 17:10:45 it may be practical and work well, but it is ugly 17:10:47 * ehird facepalm. 17:10:52 It's not conceptually ugly. 17:10:57 The whole program is a single Tcl list. 17:11:05 ehird, well the beauty is in the eye of the beholder 17:11:09 and that sounds nice 17:12:59 also another thing I dislike about shell scripting, and php, and also tcl: using $ prefix for variables. Sure it makes it less ambiguous and probably easier to parse. But it makes the code look messy 17:13:23 -!- Judofyr has quit (Connection timed out). 17:13:24 tcl doesn't look messy. Also, $a just parses to [set a]. 17:13:29 Which you could use if you wanted. 17:21:13 -!- psygnisfive has quit (Connection timed out). 17:23:13 ehird, after reading that article: Yes TCL has certain nice points, but 1) it seems to be unable to do syntax checking in advance, due to the "proc unknown" thing 2) I *do* think it looks a bit messy, but of course that is subjective 3) due to the negative attitude attached to it saying you use TCL would be _somewhat_ like saying "I code in COBOL", and it isn't very popular, smaller user base, less co 17:23:14 mmunity 17:23:34 1) That is irrelevant to syntax. 17:23:46 3) No, that's ridiculous, not everyone has stupid blanket opinions. additionally: 17:23:55 http://wiki.tcl.tk/ 17:23:59 there's your vibrant community 17:24:29 1) How do you mean? Doesn't proc unknown allow you to do much the same as non-clean lisp macros? 17:24:56 1. Not really. It's just called when a non-bound function is called. 17:25:17 hm ok 17:26:31 ehird, well in certain aspects tcl is like a lisp without parentheses(spelling?) and with a bit of syntax, 17:26:51 and then I would rather just use lisp 17:26:52 :) 17:27:02 It's imperative, not functional. 17:28:21 true, but in many other aspects it is close, such as everything being a list, powerful redefining of internal structures, like the example of proc repeat in that article 17:28:33 I can easily imagine that as a lisp macro 17:28:37 quite close 17:30:29 it also reminds me of bash in certain ways 17:30:32 set a pu 17:30:33 set b ts 17:30:33 $a$b "Hello World" 17:30:40 something very similar would work in bash 17:30:55 yes. 17:32:32 to me it seems like a mix of shell and lisp 17:33:10 that reminds me... I remember reading about a functional shell some time ago 17:33:15 * AnMaster looks around 17:33:59 nop can't find it 17:45:36 sigh, I so dislike when random newbies /msg random people 17:45:42 *especially* if that one is me 17:45:54 being msged that is of course 17:45:58 Who? 17:46:46 ehird, some newb in ##linux first asked if anyone was there (in an active channel with around 800 users, and several people had already spoken after he/she joined) 17:47:05 then he/she did some random /msg to some people in there, including me 17:47:13 Ooh, the original otpbot 17:47:19 ehird, hm? 17:47:23 Be prepared for a TOPIC CELLULAR AUTOMATA 17:47:27 -!- otpbot has joined. 17:47:28 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | __X_____X_X_XXX_XXXXXXXX__X__X__X__X__XX_X___X_____X______X_X_XXXX_XX___XXX__XXXX__X_X___X_XX____X__. 17:47:30 oh no 17:47:31 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | _XXX___XX_X_X___X_______XXXXXXXXXXXXXXX__XX_XXX___XXX____XX_X_X____X_X_XX__XXX___XXX_XX_XX_X_X__XXX_. 17:47:34 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | XX__X_XX__X_XX_XXX_____XX______________XXX__X__X_XX__X__XX__X_XX__XX_X_X_XXX__X_XX___X__X__X_XXXX__X. 17:47:37 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | __XXX_X_XXX_X__X__X___XX_X____________XX__XXXXXX_X_XXXXXX_XXX_X_XXX__X_X_X__XXX_X_X_XXXXXXXX_X___XXX. 17:47:40 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | XXX___X_X___XXXXXXXX_XX__XX__________XX_XXX______X_X______X___X_X__XXX_X_XXXX___X_X_X________XX_XX__. 17:47:42 ehird, what one is it? 17:47:43 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | X__X_XX_XX_XX________X_XXX_X________XX__X__X____XX_XX____XXX_XX_XXXX___X_X___X_XX_X_XX______XX__X_XX. 17:47:46 AnMaster: not sure. 17:47:46 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | _XXX_X__X__X_X______XX_X___XX______XX_XXXXXXX__XX__X_X__XX___X__X___X_XX_XX_XX_X__X_X_X____XX_XXX_X_. 17:47:49 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | XX___XXXXXXX_XX____XX__XX_XX_X____XX__X______XXX_XXX_XXXX_X_XXXXXX_XX_X__X__X__XXXX_X_XX__XX__X___XX. 17:47:50 the tc one I think. 17:47:52 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | __X_XX_______X_X__XX_XXX__X__XX__XX_XXXX____XX___X___X____X_X______X__XXXXXXXXXX____X_X_XXX_XXXX_XX_. 17:47:55 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | _XX_X_X_____XX_XXXX__X__XXXXXX_XXX__X___X__XX_X_XXX_XXX__XX_XX____XXXXX_________X__XX_X_X___X____X_X. 17:47:57 best viewed with a wide client :P 17:47:58 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | _X__X_XX___XX__X___XXXXXX______X__XXXX_XXXXX__X_X___X__XXX__X_X__XX____X_______XXXXX__X_XX_XXX__XX_X. 17:48:01 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | _XXXX_X_X_XX_XXXX_XX_____X____XXXXX____X____XXX_XX_XXXXX__XXX_XXXX_X__XXX_____XX____XXX_X__X__XXX__X. 17:48:04 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | _X____X_X_X__X____X_X___XXX__XX____X__XXX__XX___X__X____XXX___X____XXXX__X___XX_X__XX___XXXXXXX__XXX. 17:48:07 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | _XX__XX_X_XXXXX__XX_XX_XX__XXX_X__XXXXX__XXX_X_XXXXXX__XX__X_XXX__XX___XXXX_XX__XXXX_X_XX______XXX__. 17:48:10 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | XX_XXX__X_X____XXX__X__X_XXX___XXXX____XXX___X_X_____XXX_XXX_X__XXX_X_XX____X_XXX____X_X_X____XX__X_. 17:48:11 pretttttttyyyyyyyyyyyy 17:48:13 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | X__X__XXX_XX__XX__XXXXXX_X__X_XX___X__XX__X_XX_XX___XX___X___XXXX___X_X_X__XX_X__X__XX_X_XX__XX_XXX_. 17:48:16 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | XXXXXXX___X_XXX_XXX______XXXX_X_X_XXXXX_XXX_X__X_X_XX_X_XXX_XX___X_XX_X_XXXX__XXXXXXX__X_X_XXX__X___. 17:48:19 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | X______X_XX_X___X__X____XX____X_X_X_____X___XXXX_X_X__X_X___X_X_XX_X__X_X___XXX______XXX_X_X__XXXX_X. 17:48:19 ehird, I it is multi-line here 17:48:20 and 17:48:22 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | _X____XX_X__XX_XXXXXX__XX_X__XX_X_XX___XXX_XX____X_XXXX_XX_XX_X_X__XXXX_XX_XX__X____XX___X_XXXX____X. 17:48:25 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | _XX__XX__XXXX__X_____XXX__XXXX__X_X_X_XX___X_X__XX_X____X__X__X_XXXX____X__X_XXXX__XX_X_XX_X___X__XX. 17:48:25 please turn if off soon 17:48:28 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | _X_XXX_XXX___XXXX___XX__XXX___XXX_X_X_X_X_XX_XXXX__XX__XXXXXXXX_X___X__XXXXX_X___XXX__X_X__XX_XXXXX_. 17:48:31 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | XX_X___X__X_XX___X_XX_XXX__X_XX___X_X_X_X_X__X___XXX_XXX________XX_XXXXX_____XX_XX__XXX_XXXX__X____X. 17:48:34 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | ___XX_XXXXX_X_X_XX_X__X__XXX_X_X_XX_X_X_X_XXXXX_XX___X__X______XX__X____X___XX__X_XXX___X___XXXX__XX. 17:48:35 AnMaster: i'll turn it off when people start talking 17:48:36 :P 17:48:37 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | X_XX__X_____X_X_X__XXXXXXX___X_X_X__X_X_X_X_____X_X_XXXXXX____XX_XXXX__XXX_XX_XXX_X__X_XXX_XX___XXX_. 17:48:40 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | X_X_XXXX___XX_X_XXXX______X_XX_X_XXXX_X_X_XX___XX_X_X_____X__XX__X___XXX___X__X___XXXX_X___X_X_XX___. 17:48:40 well 17:48:42 I'm talking 17:48:43 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | X_X_X___X_XX__X_X___X____XX_X__X_X____X_X_X_X_XX__X_XX___XXXXX_XXXX_XX__X_XXXXXX_XX____XX_XX_X_X_X_X. 17:48:46 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | __X_XX_XX_X_XXX_XX_XXX__XX__XXXX_XX__XX_X_X_X_X_XXX_X_X_XX_____X____X_XXX_X______X_X__XX__X__X_X_X_X. 17:48:48 yeah but 17:48:48 I might be talking. 17:48:49 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | XXX_X__X__X_X___X__X__XXX_XXX____X_XXX__X_X_X_X_X___X_X_X_X___XXX__XX_X___XX____XX_XXXX_XXXXXX_X_X_X. 17:48:51 you don't count. :o 17:48:52 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | ____XXXXXXX_XX_XXXXXXXX___X__X__XX_X__XXX_X_X_X_XX_XX_X_X_XX_XX__XXX__XX_XX_X__XX__X____X______X_X_X. 17:48:55 me2 17:48:55 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | X__XX_______X__X_______X_XXXXXXXX__XXXX___X_X_X_X__X__X_X_X__X_XXX__XXX__X__XXXX_XXXX__XXX____XX_X_X. 17:48:56 :o 17:48:58 -!- otpbot has set topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric | _XXX_X_____XXXXXX_____XX_X_______XXX___X_XX_X_X_XXXXXXX_X_XXXX_X__XXX__XXXXXX____X___XXX__X__XX__X_X. 17:48:59 sigh 17:49:00 -!- otpbot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:49:03 you all suck ass. 17:49:07 no u 17:49:08 Badgers can't talk :( 17:49:15 Asztal_: prove it. 17:49:22 go up to one and ask it. 17:49:40 I will 17:49:43 if he decides to answer you, he might not want to 17:49:46 -!- Asztal_ has changed nick to Asztal. 17:50:00 yep, that was 110 17:50:03 as far as I know they are like to be quiet 17:50:12 http://pastie.org/349088.txt?key=j3sdlyntj4fyl1kmorbag 17:50:13 triangles 17:51:01 ehird, is 110 tc? 17:51:08 that one is 17:51:30 hm? 17:52:03 ehird, what was the previous topic? 17:52:08 wat 17:52:15 before it changed topic 17:52:18 what was the topic then 17:52:23 who cares 17:52:28 the current topic has the logs and Xs and _s 17:52:31 what more do you want 17:52:43 ehird, well tomorrow I'll want "happy new year" 17:52:45 or something like that 17:52:54 you mean in two days. 17:53:09 ehird, hm? 17:53:15 it is 31 tomorrow 17:53:17 yes. 17:53:21 new years is 1 jan. 17:53:25 so two days. 17:53:48 ehird, well no, because I think we should go on the Australia timezone 17:53:54 which will be way earlier than here 17:53:57 #EINA 17:54:01 EINA? 17:54:15 #esoteric Is Not Agora 17:54:27 ehird, err you didn't act like that yesterday 17:54:33 also, what has agora got to do with it? 17:54:43 Agora celebrates its birthday in the australian timezone. 17:54:49 Also, #esoteric is esotermic. 17:55:09 ok, so what about NZ? 17:55:23 What about nz? 17:55:29 because we shouldn't be UK centric, that makes no sense 17:55:42 AnMaster: UTC centric makes sense. 17:56:19 ehird, for new year it makes sense to celebrate it at the point where it first happens, which isn't even NZ iirc but another hour or so before that 17:56:28 * AnMaster looks on a map 17:56:36 No, it makes sense to celebrate it when it happens where you are. 17:56:45 true 17:56:54 Also, that's gregorian-centric. 17:56:55 but the channel isn't in any specific place 17:57:03 Exactly, so we default to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Coordinated_Universal_Time 17:57:15 Just like we default to English. 17:57:52 ehird, idea: Use same timezone as that of the first freenode server to enter the new year 17:58:00 lame idea. :P 17:58:05 I think there is one in Australia 18:11:50 awk: syntax error at source line 1 source file quine.awk 18:11:50 context is 18:11:52 >>> awk: <<< 18:11:54 awk: bailing out at source line 5 18:33:27 -!- Judofyr_ has changed nick to Judofyr. 18:37:26 WTFCODE 18:37:44 http://pastie.org/private/kihnzfgeiwl79gzu0faa 18:58:03 -!- kar8nga has joined. 18:58:28 -!- moozilla has joined. 19:00:54 -!- moozilla has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:00:58 -!- moozilla has joined. 19:10:23 08:47:48 fizzie: no, tail reads all the input into a red-black tree ndexed by line number, then when it hits EOF it repeatedly gets the lowest key, 19:10:23 checks whether it's in the requested range to be printed, and prints it if so 19:17:14 -!- moozilla has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 19:20:33 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:30:47 the tc one I think. 19:31:01 nope, that is rule 30, which is not known to be tc 19:31:05 hm ok 19:31:08 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:31:14 (or so i think from the logs, it's definitely not 110) 19:31:36 it has triangles 19:31:44 it might be, but it's reversible so trying random fields gives you no hints of gliders like 110 does 19:32:01 mm 19:32:03 because reversible means random -> random, really 19:32:41 and also you would have to implement one of the reversible tc versions i guess 19:34:15 rule 110 triangles are not symmetric, but right-angled 19:42:19 what we need is a list of countries by timezone, then each hour we select one randomly in the timezone currently entering new year and put it in the topic. 19:42:33 lol 19:42:42 so HAPPY NEW YEAR TONGA etc. 19:42:50 (not sure if that's the first one or last one) 19:45:03 ^ul (^^:^^^:^^^^^:^^^^^^:::^^^^^^^^:::^^^:^^^^::^)()!()~((())~:a~*):a~*~^!(~((!())(!:^(^)*)(!!:^(!^)*))~*^!!^):^()!(~((()())(:a~*:(*(!^)(:)S)~*~(!*(^)(^)S)~*):a~**((!^)~^!^)(!(^)~^^))~*^()S!!a:(*)*~(~*)**^~*(()()(!)()(!)(:a~*:(!^(!^((!^)*)(!(^)*))(!^((^)*)(!(^)*)))()!~*~(!^(!^((!^)*)(!(^)*))(!^((^)*)(!(!^)*)))~*):^)~*^!!!!!!~:^):^ 19:45:04 ^^:^^^:^^^^^:^^^^^^:::^^^^^^^^:::^^^:^^^^::^:^^^:^^^:::^^^::::^::^^::::::^::^^:^^^::^:^^^^:^^^:^::^^:^:::^^:^^^:::::^^:^^^^^:^:^^^^^:^^^:^^^:^^^^^::^^^^^:^::::^^^^^:::^^^^^::::^^:^^^:^^^:::^:^^:::^^^:::^^:::^::^^:::^::::^^^^:^^^:^::^^^^^::^^:^::^^^::^^:^^^::^^:::^:::^^^:^^^:^^:::^:^^^^^:^^:^:^^^^^:^:^^^::^^::^^:^^^:^^^^::^ ...too much output! 19:45:14 oops 19:45:34 ^ul (^^:^^^:^^^^^:^^^^^^:::^^^^^^^^:::^^^:^^^^::^)()!()~((())~:a~*):a~*~^!(~((!())(!:^(^)*)(!!:^(!^)*))~*^!!^):^()!(~((()())(:a~*:(*(!^)(:)S)~*~(!*(^)(^)S)~*):a~**((!^)~^!^)(!(^)~^^))~*^( )S!!a:(*)*~(~*)**^~*(()()(!)()(!)(:a~*:(!^(!^((!^)*)(!(^)*))(!^((^)*)(!(^)*)))()!~*~(!^(!^((!^)*)(!(^)*))(!^((^)*)(!(!^)*)))~*):^)~*^!!!!!!~:^):^ 19:45:35 ^^:^^^:^^^^^:^^^^^^:::^^^^^^^^:::^^^:^^^^::^ :^^^:^^^:::^^^::::^::^^::::::^::^^:^^^::^:^^ ^^:^^^:^::^^:^:::^^:^^^:::::^^:^^^^^:^:^^^^^ :^^^:^^^:^^^^^::^^^^^:^::::^^^^^:::^^^^^:::: ^^:^^^:^^^:::^:^^:::^^^:::^^:::^::^^:::^:::: ^^^^:^^^:^::^^^^^::^^:^::^^^::^^:^^^::^^:::^ :::^^^:^^^:^^:::^:^^^^^:^^:^:^^^^^:^:^^^::^^ ::^^:^^^: ...too much output! 19:45:49 that's 110 19:50:03 ^help 19:50:03 ^ ; ^def ; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool 20:13:00 -!- Mony has quit ("Quit"). 20:30:31 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 20:35:16 -!- kar8nga has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:37:43 -!- kar8nga has joined. 20:49:08 -!- atrapado has joined. 20:50:05 fizzie, there? Any progress on jitfunge? 20:54:34 it won't progress until the very last minute. that much should be obvious. 21:15:11 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 21:17:40 -!- Corun has joined. 21:17:44 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:17:45 -!- sebbu has quit (kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 21:17:55 -!- Corun has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:22:36 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 21:37:28 ok 21:37:28 oklo 21:37:28 oplo 21:37:28 ... 21:37:28 where is he 21:37:28 oh dear 22:02:48 07:42:48 --- quit: oklodol (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)) 22:02:48 what's that in utc 22:02:48 argh 22:02:48 why the heck don't the logs use utc 22:04:49 cause they're shit 22:04:49 also, clog just stopped logging it seems 22:04:49 ok tunes 12:54 = my 21:54 = utc 20:54 22:04:49 so add 8 22:04:49 so, around 16:00 22:04:49 also, no logging because: 22:04:49 21:21 [Global Notice] Hi all, It would appear one of our US client servers have fallen off the edge of the discwo^H^H^H^H^H^Hinternet and all but vanished! We're looking into the issue now and hope to have it back soon. Affected users ~3K. Apologies for the inconvenience and thank you for flying freenode! 22:04:49 with the exception that clog is actually still in the channel 22:04:49 i think that's an oddity of the problem 22:04:49 but if clog is down, sweet, now I can take over the lucrative #esoteric logging market 22:04:49 you should be able to make thousands of esodollars in profit 22:04:49 yes 22:04:49 woah, I have so much stuff in ~ that software trying to traverse it all crashes 22:04:49 hm interesting mediawiki hack: http://wikimediafoundation.org/w/index.php?title=Template:2008/Donate-header (see http://wikimediafoundation.org/w/index.php?title=Template:2008/Donate-header&action=edit for the source) 22:04:49 didn't know you could do that kind of stuff with mediawiki 22:04:49 AnMaster: i'd really fucking prefer they didn't 22:04:49 god those ads on wikipedia are so annoying 22:04:49 ehird, yes I agree 22:04:49 especially when it randomly switches to RED BORDER MODE 22:04:49 ehird, but that was not ads, but fund raising pages 22:04:49 yes 22:04:49 ehird, red border mode? 22:04:49 I don't see any red borders 22:04:49 AnMaster: they randomly switch between them 22:04:49 they're trying to find out which is most-liked 22:04:49 the answer is none of them. 22:04:50 AnMaster: http://wikimediafoundation.org/w/index.php?title=Template:2008/Donate-header/en&action=edit 22:04:50 calls to http://wikimediafoundation.org/w/index.php?title=Template:2008/Donate-header&action=edit 22:04:50 in donate-header, "Tomas" is the magick. 22:04:50 and is a Mega-Unsafe option you can enable 22:04:50 for arbitrary html embedding 22:04:50 ehird, heh 22:04:50 ehird, that isn't enabled on normal wikipedia I bet 22:04:50 no duh 22:04:50 also, http://www.globalnerdy.com/wordpress/wp-content/uploads/2008/12/youre-trying-to-divide-by-zero.jpg 22:04:50 only on the "login really really required" wiki 22:04:50 AnMaster: "personal approval required for registration", too. 22:04:50 well 22:04:50 not qute 22:04:50 but that page will be protected 22:04:50 and only protected pages can use i think 22:04:50 ehird, hm 22:04:50 i really wish I didn't know this stuff; mediawiki is a huge hack. 22:04:50 yes 22:04:50 it is 22:04:50 1969 – She won the first "man of the year" award from the Data Processing Management Association. -- [[Grace Hopper]] 22:04:50 ^ lol 22:04:50 ehird, also that divide by zero: heh 22:04:50 ehird, where was that quote from? 22:04:50 AnMaster: "-- [[Grace Hopper]]" 22:04:50 ehird: you can turn off the fundraiser in your wikipedia preferences if you're logged in 22:04:50 oerjan: i really don't give a shit 22:04:50 I don't want to login 22:04:50 ah 22:04:50 I want the wikimedia foundation to get a clue 22:04:50 ehird, what about a smaller ad, like half the size of the compressed box? 22:04:50 something just like "Please support wikipedia" 22:04:50 or whatever 22:04:50 you want them to start doing _real_ ads because they don't get any donations? :) 22:04:50 that would be more acceptable, AnMaster 22:04:50 oerjan, no 22:04:50 but how about they get a better way to gain funds than groveling with HUGE FUCKING RED BORDERS. 22:04:50 i mean, crazy I know. 22:04:50 ehird, agreed 22:04:50 even the devs hate coding in the ads, apparently 22:04:50 last year ais said they had a MARQUEE 22:04:50 of donation messages 22:04:50 and the commit asked people to please try and talk some sense into the WMF 22:04:50 ehird, well WMF use HTML 4.0 on the fund raising pages 22:04:50 i mean on the wikipedia header 22:04:50 AnMaster: it was a javascript marquee 22:04:50 probably 22:04:50 not 22:04:50 ehird, even so 22:04:50 yeah 22:04:50 awful :P 22:04:50 ehird, noscript++ 22:04:50 notgoingtositesthatusemarquees++ 22:04:50 ehird, that too 22:04:50 but when I need to look up the plot summary of a Star Trek episode, where should I go if not wikipedia? 22:04:50 where else is there? 22:04:50 memory alpha? 22:04:50 ehird, ah true 22:04:50 I'm kind of ashamed that I know that name. 22:04:50 ehird, same 22:04:50 :P 22:04:50 AnMaster: you could use adblock to block the donation grid 22:04:50 I might do that, with a greasemonkey script (greasekit does them for safari) 22:04:50 ehird, I do use adblock as well 22:04:50 adblock and noscript 22:04:50 hello. 22:04:50 lol 22:04:50 i use lynx 22:04:50 GreaseMonkey, not you, the firefox extension 22:04:50 0.1 22:04:50 with nohtml 22:04:50 it blocks all html 22:04:50 ehird, I do use lynx sometimes, it has excellent gopher support 22:04:50 also, I only use it for gopher 22:04:50 and it support short tags better than other browsers 22:04:50 AnMaster: ugh, stop being all poe's law on me 22:04:50 i know 22:04:50 ehird, no I'm not 22:04:50 I was playing along 22:04:50 ah. ;P 22:04:50 *:P 22:04:50 :^ 22:04:50 ehird, anyway the banner goes away if you block javascript from upload.wikimedia.org 22:04:50 wikipedia uses js for other useful things tho. 22:04:50 well yes 22:04:50 there are very few cases of people using js for something good 22:04:50 all those javascript menus for example... CSS menus! 22:12:19 -!- psygnisfive has joined. 22:30:35 -!- moozilla has joined. 22:43:19 -!- metazilla has joined. 22:43:19 -!- moozilla has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:43:31 -!- metazilla has changed nick to moozilla. 22:45:53 -!- metazilla has joined. 22:45:54 -!- moozilla has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:46:03 -!- metazilla has changed nick to moozilla. 22:48:30 x 22:48:35 x+8 22:48:44 x! 22:49:43 9 22:50:21 i sin x - pi 22:54:07 5 22:55:11 -180 22:55:16 9 22:55:53 9 22:56:30 9 22:56:42 -9 22:57:03 9 22:57:24 0 22:57:38 9 22:58:18 387420489 22:59:32 -!- moozilla has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:59:35 -!- moozilla has joined. 23:02:00 -!- metazilla has joined. 23:02:02 -!- moozilla has quit (Nick collision from services.). 23:02:14 -!- metazilla has changed nick to moozilla. 23:07:06 -!- atrapado has quit ("Abandonando"). 23:11:30 Swami Abandananda 23:12:07 . 23:12:08 9 23:14:36 ^bf +++++++++[->++++++++<]>+. 23:14:36 I 23:14:41 what the heck 23:15:08 * oerjan is losing basic arithmetic 23:15:18 oerjan: ouch 23:15:24 ^bf +++++++[->++++++++<]>+. 23:15:25 9 23:15:36 oerjan: now make it print a space and 9s forever. 23:16:15 ^bf ++++++++[->+++++++>++++<<]>+[.>.<] 23:16:15 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 9 ... 23:16:26 yay 23:16:40 >.< 23:16:40 awwwww 23:16:54 ? 23:17:37 +[.>.<] 23:17:48 ^bf +[.>.<] 23:17:48 23:18:02 does not compute! 23:18:03 D: 23:18:05 23:16 ^bf ++++++++[->+++++++>++++<<]>+[.>.<] 23:18:20 oic 23:18:31 voici 23:18:37 -!- moozilla has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:20:30 -!- LinuS has quit ("Puzzi. Sì, parlo proprio con te. Puzzi."). 23:26:38 -!- kar8nga has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 23:29:47 -!- kar8nga has joined. 23:33:20 -!- kar8nga has left (?).