< 1231977845 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo < 1231978242 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1231985272 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Blue squares floting about..." < 1231985411 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1231985512 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@92.254.128.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1231992973 0 :CakeProphet!n=seveninc@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1232002726 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-57-231.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1232003410 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1232003886 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1232006399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1232006400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1232006614 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1232009998 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :kornbluth.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1232010022 0 :lament!n=lament@S010600110999ad06.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1232010059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how did the OO stuff work out? < 1232010091 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1232014707 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-100-124.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1232015135 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.127 JOIN :#esoteric < 1232021658 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"lol" < 1232021855 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1232025431 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1232025448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if anyone claims I'm an hour late on that, I'll mumble something about time zones, or DST, or something.) < 1232025461 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time dilation. works for me. < 1232025463 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hi < 1232025487 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr... RL business is annoying < 1232025494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially when it involves VHDL < 1232025497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though I like VHDL < 1232025579 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, no, RL _business_ is annoying < 1232025593 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :accounting, cash flow problems, that sort of thing. < 1232025602 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I wonder if busyness is a real word? < 1232025609 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if business is actually the way it's spelt < 1232025620 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but agreed, both meanings are pretty annoying < 1232025656 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/busyness has it < 1232025766 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the entry on business claims it's archaic to use it to mean "busyness" < 1232026238 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OED lists 'business': "I. State or quality of being busy. (Cf. the adj.) -- (These senses are all obs., but some of them occur as nonce-words with special spelling BUSYNESS, and trisyllabic pronunciation.)" < 1232026414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\ul ((\ul )SaSaS(:^)S)((^ul )SaSaS(:^)S):^ < 1232026432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that I expect that to run, gunfot isn't here < 1232026437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I still like looking at it < 1232026464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1232026471 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1232027395 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Computer has gone to sleep" < 1232027567 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-100-124.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1232028048 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1232030487 0 :Hiato!n=1@dsl-245-26-251.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1232031416 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1232032096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mysql_connect() Connects to a MySQL server (this function is deprecated; use mysql_real_connect() instead) < 1232032097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1232032101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting naming scheme < 1232032116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if they find out they need a third version of the call in the future? < 1232032145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mysql_very_real_connect()? mysql_surreal_connect()? < 1232032151 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mysql_actually_connect_this_time < 1232032161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1232032176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what lang is that function in? < 1232032185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, The C API for mysql < 1232032196 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[CTCP] Received CTCP-PING reply from ehird: 1232032186 seconds. < 1232032198 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ehird < 1232032204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1232032207 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although something's up with that pingtime < 1232032209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy crap < 1232032212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did that happen < 1232032214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you ping me like hours ago? < 1232032218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so I was offline, and I guess my bouncer phailed at ponging < 1232032219 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that's more than hours < 1232032223 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's years, or so < 1232032227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1232032241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably my bouncer decided to play tricks with you < 1232032242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pinged you when offline, and got an away message < 1232032244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh btw postgres' API works better for this: PGconn *PQconnectdb(const char *conninfo); <-- conninfo is a key=value space separated options string < 1232032245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAICT, when you came online your bouncer ponged me back, but with the wrong number < 1232032247 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow < 1232032248 0 :MigoMipo!n=kvirc@84-217-2-126.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1232032257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sqlite uses _v2 _v3 and so on < 1232032273 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: key=value string isn't really very Cy < 1232032274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, my object system is >100 lines and it still doesn't work properly yet < 1232032277 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm... C-ey < 1232032280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1232032282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-like < 1232032289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, true, but easier to add new features too < 1232032290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"MYSQL *mysql_real_connect(MYSQL *mysql, const char *host, const char *user, const char *passwd, const char *db, unsigned int port, const char *unix_socket, unsigned long client_flag)" < 1232032290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, I have a tied hash that delegates to other objects, that you bless with a proxy object. < 1232032303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523, true, but easier to add new features too < 1232032310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't berkley sockets teach you anything? < 1232032312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :structs < 1232032317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes I agree < 1232032336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, berkeley sockets _is_ awful, but it is very C < 1232032364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I was tired while printf debugging yesterday < 1232032364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : print"yo, ... in da klub ;-)\n"; < 1232032401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, if you guys ever are coding perl < 1232032402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and think < 1232032406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ooh, I could solve this with a tied hash nicely" < 1232032407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just < 1232032408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill yourself < 1232032418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's way better than the alternative < 1232032477 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1232032481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MySQL's C API make very little sense. Compared to PostgreSQL and SQLite APIs < 1232032493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mysql makes little sense. < 1232032496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sql makes little sense. < 1232032499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the relational model makes little sense. < 1232032519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, agreed for the first. And well SQL does have problems, but I have yet to see something widespread that is better < 1232032533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :widespread is quite irrelevant. < 1232032540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and SQL, amusingly, isn't even relational-model-sane. < 1232032546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true it isn't < 1232032562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Codd%27s_12_rules < 1232032572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"that system must use its relational facilities (exclusively)" < 1232032574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ding, mysql fails 1 < 1232032582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"All information in the database is to be represented in one and only one way, namely by values in column positions within rows of tables." < 1232032587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ding, i'm almost certain mysql provides other ways < 1232032588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 < 1232032603 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-252-201.hsi2.kabel-badenwuerttemberg.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1232032617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you mean like views? < 1232032618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[All views that are theoretically updatable must be updatable by the system. ]] < 1232032623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if mysql does this < 1232032630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sql probably does < 1232032635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, whatever < 1232032637 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody implements SQL < 1232032639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sql isn't relational < 1232032641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mysql less so < 1232032644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, these aren't SQL rules < 1232032647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these are relational rules < 1232032647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh writable views, hm I know SQLite docs says it is one of the missing features in SQLite < 1232032650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :written by the guy who invented the model < 1232032660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SQL fails a lot of thme < 1232032662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MySQL fails even more < 1232032666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1232032669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the best part is that the relational model isn't even good < 1232032671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they fail at failing,. < 1232032699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would be funny was if MySQL failed in a way that made it better than correct SQL. Sadly it doesn't do that < 1232032726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the irony of missing irony < 1232032839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "All information in the database is to be represented in one and only one way, namely by values in column positions within rows of tables." <-- apart from views and stored procedures, the only way I could think of would be that the result can be fetched both by column position in the result and by column name < 1232032846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in sql in general < 1232032856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know if mysql provides other ways? < 1232032869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/?$// < 1232033357 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@a91-153-121-248.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1232033460 0 :|MigoMipo|!n=kvirc@84-217-7-102.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1232033489 0 :|MigoMipo|!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1232033686 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1232034416 0 :Slereah_!n=Slereah@ANantes-259-1-102-167.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1232035161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GRR < 1232035162 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1232035162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A TARBOMB < 1232035170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION considers writing a script that checks for tarbombs and contains them
< 1232035177 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: why didn't you untar it in a separate directory/ < 1232035187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because normally I assume people aren't bozo < 1232035188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1232035209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that's often an unsafe assumption < 1232035216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but it keeps me sane < 1232035691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION considers writing a lisp parser that mirrors the structure of the lisp it's parsing.
< 1232035747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL, someone complained that jquery's api docs don't work with noscript. < 1232036033 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1232036059 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tone down the nerd humor, I'm back < 1232036079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: why should the API docs require JavaScript to read? < 1232036083 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a valid complaint < 1232036093 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially as I often load up API docs in w3m whilst programming < 1232036093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's a _javascript api_ < 1232036103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're programming something with javascript, you have javascript enabled to test it < 1232036110 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but that's in your test window < 1232036117 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not in your text editor window < 1232036122 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the complaint is valid to a degree... but funny anyway < 1232036134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's a good thing the jquery api docs isn't text editor-integrated, then < 1232036169 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, it isn't < 1232036179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant for the example you gave. < 1232036179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with most API docs, I can work around using a tabbed shell, or with Emacs < 1232036195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I use a text editor to edit text, not look up apis,. < 1232036195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why API docs should arbitrarily prevent themselves being loaded in a text editor < 1232036197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or play tetris. < 1232036205 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, I don't use my editor for Tetris < 1232036212 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but looking up APIs is a pretty sensible use for them < 1232036215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone does, because it's in the base distribution < 1232036218 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even Microsoft does that, with Intellisense < 1232036230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Microsoft does it" is not a way to convince me something is a good idea. < 1232036243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, pretty much every editor does nowadays < 1232036247 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even vi has syntax higlighting < 1232036257 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is API lookup fundamentally different from syntax higlighting? < 1232036264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one of the things needed when programming, unless you have a perfect memory < 1232036268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vi does not have syntax highlighting, as far as I know. < 1232036269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vim does. < 1232036273 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OK < 1232036280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but vim is essentially emacs-- < 1232036297 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but M-x man and M-x perldoc are commands I use all the time when programming < 1232036300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on the language < 1232036301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, syntax highlighting is tied fundamentally to the editor < 1232036309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :API docs aren't < 1232036316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: they are very involved with the editor < 1232036324 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you like doing a lot of cut/paste/search, or retyping < 1232036339 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the VHDL I'm editing atm, I type for and I get an entire generate-for statement template < 1232036343 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which in VHDL is not trivial to write by hand < 1232036346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not an api document < 1232036348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just snippets < 1232036351 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1232036355 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :APIs are similar, though < 1232036357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really. < 1232036360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to look up which argument's which < 1232036362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder why so many people apparently don't have a desktop environment < 1232036363 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can't remember < 1232036379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is, um, _designed_ for passing information between programs concurrently < 1232036397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why pass the information when you can use it without passing? < 1232036405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you use the mouse for API lookups, by any chance? < 1232036426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but I generally don't need API lookups < 1232036469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I use the mouse for pinpointing both precise pieces on the screen that would be tedious to access with a keyboard, and large fuzzy areas which would also be tedious with a keyboard < 1232036477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g., input field focusing, text selection, window selection < 1232036478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with Mac OS X, I'm surprised that things like API lookups aren't integrated the same way as spell-checkers < 1232036488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they probably are if you use xcode. I don't < 1232036508 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: doesn't that make it silly for jquery's API to require JavaScript, then? < 1232036519 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if I'm writing jquery-using code at home without Internet access? < 1232036527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you download the api. < 1232036532 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that require JS? < 1232036533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :docs < 1232036540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it uses adobe air or some shit < 1232036545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I am saying is: < 1232036557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't bad for the _web version_ of a _javascript api's_ documentation to require javascript < 1232036565 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it is < 1232036575 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's bad for the web version of /anything/ to _require_ javascript if possible < 1232036580 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :demonstrating JS, ok < 1232036589 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but other things should fallback gracefully, even if they're very JS-related < 1232036604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you think it bad for the web version of the Java API to require Java? < 1232036612 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it doesn't, by the way) < 1232036619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes: java isn't inherently web based. jQuery is. < 1232036625 0 :flexo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the real world javascript is available everywhere.. < 1232036634 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I've written non-web-based computer games in JavaScript < 1232036641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you wouldn't use jquery for it. < 1232036647 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which were entirely client side, and required copy and paste for saving < 1232036650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, I wouldn't < 1232036657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's just my personal preferences < 1232036657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, entirely client side: so it used html? < 1232036660 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1232036667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :file:/// to an HTML counts as the web, imo. < 1232036681 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the lack of any CGI support influenced things somewhat < 1232036684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flexo: yes, some people choose to castrate their browser because of their tin foil hats < 1232036687 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the web normally had that < 1232036694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: not just tin foil hats < 1232036706 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to avoid all sorts of annoying things that people normally use JS for is at least as valid a reason < 1232036723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so stop going to those sites < 1232036732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know where this mass of annoying JS sites are, because I never come across them. < 1232036737 0 :flexo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same here < 1232036740 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: do you use an ad-blocker? < 1232036747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope. < 1232036750 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much any random non-tech news site will have annoying JS-based adverts < 1232036760 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from reputable ones < 1232036770 0 :flexo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how about using reputable ones then? < 1232036772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the sites I go's ads are inconspicuous and ignorable. the ones that have annoying ones, I DON'T GO TO THOSE SITES! < 1232036782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would I go to a site that evidently has no respect for me at all? < 1232036784 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reputable ones has flash based ads instead < 1232036786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wouldn't. < 1232036794 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, they may still have useful content, I just show no respect for them either < 1232036805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :printable versions, adblock, etc are fair game against them < 1232036822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can get the useful content somewhere that doesn't enjoy pounding me with a giant mass of ads < 1232036898 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you always? < 1232036908 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the BancSTAR page has annoying JS ads, for instance < 1232036911 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't know of any copies of it < 1232036932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.geocities.com/ResearchTriangle/Station/2266/tarpit/bancstar.html < 1232036933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see no ads. < 1232036947 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: top-right < 1232036954 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your brain must have just got good at filtering them out < 1232036956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1232036959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're hallucinating. < 1232036959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that, or your browser < 1232036968 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can even send you a screenshot if you like < 1232036972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looks at html source.
< 1232036983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, the ad uses . < 1232036989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's so old Safari can't run it. < 1232036992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's fine by me. < 1232037020 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION opens in Konqueror out of interest
< 1232037035 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, no ad in Konq < 1232037048 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's a WebKit vs. Gecko/Trident thing < 1232037059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, I used to use an ad blocker. But the web looks nicer without it: tasteful ads are placed into page layouts in a way that makes it look like an odd unbalance if you block them. < 1232037060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm almost convinced the ad shows in IE, or they'd never have put it there) < 1232037193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it just the regular geocities ad? < 1232037202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If so, yeah, that's annoying. But it has a close button at the top, < 1232037288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : No pasting, not even "only one line" -- #perl topic < 1232037293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, you can't put single lines in #per < 1232037294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :l < 1232037314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph, they even got rid of gumbyBRAIN. I liked that bot. < 1232037317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#perl sux < 1232037456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1232037573 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And enabling Javascript is a security risk. Especially if you browse nonreputable sites or sites containing certain (very common) kinds of external ads... < 1232037622 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.127 JOIN :#esoteric < 1232037644 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus some sites do quite nasty-looking stuff with javascript. < 1232037662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: 1) Don't go to those sites. 2) Really, like what? < 1232037686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only vaguely scary thing I have seen done with JS is aza raskin's socialhistory.js, and that's just a _bug_, really... plus it isn't even really practical < 1232037711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: unclosable websites? < 1232037731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :geez, do people here just browse serial key sites all day? < 1232037733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's really what it sounds like < 1232037759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm thinking more malicious links < 1232037772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lik < 1232037773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1232037862 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1232037876 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And "Don't go to those sites" extends to sites like Youtube (selective javascript blocking capabilities of Noscript come handy there)? < 1232037886 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't go to Youtube at all < 1232037894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have Flash installed, for one < 1232037896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: umm, what annoying things does youtube do with js? < 1232037929 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: play videos < 1232037950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: we know you dislike youtube. < 1232037952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was asking Ilari. < 1232037967 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Youtube was given as example where Javascript does bad things to security (even if you trust Youtube). Some other sites do annoying things with js. < 1232037978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"bad things to security"? < 1232037984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This vagueness is not very interesting < 1232038009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: pretty much any browser is less secure with Flash enabled than without < 1232038019 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cross-platform critical vulnerabilities pop up every now and then < 1232038025 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how this relates to JS, though < 1232038026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thannnk you. Go away. I'm talking about JavaScript. Stop talking about how much youtube sucks... < 1232038041 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't have flash installed either... :-) < 1232038065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbh, I don't even miss YouTube < 1232038075 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a TV at home, but rarely use it < 1232038101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Area Man Constantly Mentioning He Doesn't Have Flash Installed < 1232038110 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-100-124.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1232038144 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Javascript does bad things to security/where having Javascript unconditionally enabled degrades security/ < 1232038159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I recall asking for examples... < 1232038163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also recall not getting them < 1232038185 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Clickjacking? < 1232038202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elaborate < 1232038211 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: basically it consists of using JS and iframes < 1232038216 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some website that does not use javascript has a bug that allows anyone to insert malicious content ... for example a javascript that makes you do something on that site (submit form whatever) that does harm to you in some way < 1232038234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: no, not that, that's something else < 1232038240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's xss. < 1232038245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I agree that can be a problem, JS security normally avoids that nowadays < 1232038249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xss is the fault of incompetent server-side developers < 1232038256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who don't check for the origin of such requests < 1232038262 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you have to admit that XSS is blocked completely by turning off JS, though < 1232038272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1232038281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can't get viruses if you turn off your computer! < 1232038284 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, XSS is caused by incompetent website designers; but likewise, browser security holes are caused by incompetent browser designers < 1232038291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to strike a balance somewhere < 1232038336 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... irrelevant to the current argument, but http://www.kb.cert.org/vuls/id/836068 looks interesting < 1232038345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :old. < 1232038353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody competent has used md5 for years, anyway. < 1232038354 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Combine external Javascript and nasty stuff JS can do (and I'm not talking about trying-to-run-malware-nasty), and it can get real nasty. < 1232038354 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's within the last 3 weeks < 1232038370 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :md5 has been known imperfect for a while, but that's the first practical exploitation of it I've seen < 1232038372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your hypotheticals are amusing. are you unable to provide examples? < 1232038381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, I was going to explain clickjacking < 1232038404 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clickjacking does it better than I could, though, probably < 1232038430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that's a browser bug < 1232038452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: in what way would you suggest modifying browsers to avoid it without losing functionality? < 1232038464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I prefer not to assume my browser is 100% bugfree, even though it isn't IE < 1232038476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not let sites interact with embedded pages on other sites < 1232038483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is already done to a large degree < 1232038494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just another aspect that has to be stopped, simple enough... < 1232038534 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: how is clickjacking a browser bug < 1232038551 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: also, I point out that JS adverts are exactly the sort of thing that might do that sort of thing < 1232038558 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case it isn't an "other site" < 1232038564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: they allow a site to cause an interaction with an embedded component on another site in a way that hasn't been accounted for < 1232038571 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"another site"? < 1232038583 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if it's an interaction between a website and its own adverts? < 1232038590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cross-domain scripting rules. < 1232038592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are hosted there, but haven't been properly checked for security < 1232038597 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what do you mean cross-domain? < 1232038602 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a website and its own adverts" < 1232038614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and please don't tell me all advert-loading is done from external servers < 1232038619 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I admit quite a bit of it is < 1232038641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll continue this conversation when it takes a turn that doesn't consist of me stating why things can be easily fixed and you asking about every trivial term I'm using that someone talking about browser security should know about < 1232038668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm not saying I don't understand what "cross-domain" means < 1232038675 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm saying that this will not always be cross-domain in practice < 1232038676 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: then you might fix the wikipedia page which states it isn't a browser bug < 1232038679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're assuming it is for some reason < 1232038703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a site causes a user to delete all the mail they host in the same site, umm, that's the site's fault < 1232038712 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but it still affects the user < 1232038713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they could easily do it by, you know, just automatically deleting them < 1232038723 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your problem seems to be that you're assuming all the websites you use are 100% perfect < 1232038726 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and on < 1232038727 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*no < 1232038737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally, the advertising division of a website != the content division < 1232038749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they both put more or less their own stuff on the same page < 1232038751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the advertising devision hates the mail devision < 1232038758 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the advertising division is often relatively easily tricked by outsiders < 1232038759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wants users to delete all their mail via their ads < 1232038768 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there were quite a few adverts spreading Storm, recently, for instance < 1232038779 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the ad people are 100% perfect, no problem < 1232038795 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in practice, they're quite easily persuaded to do something obnoxious by $EVIL_HACKER < 1232038812 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which ends up impacting the mail website as a whole and deleting all your mail < 1232038831 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you might say this is unlikely, but IIRC Storm spread via a combination of those methods and exploiting flaws in IE) < 1232038875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: anyway, it seems clickjacking was even used to change the Flash privacy settings to turn on webcam and microphone < 1232038890 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't even XSS, or crossdomain, that's affecting local programs on the user's computer < 1232038903 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And some sites are probably hosted on computers that are a lot better hardened than the ad servers they reference to via Javascript includes. < 1232038905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a flash bug. < 1232038911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we are talking JS. < 1232038919 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's a combination-of-JS-and-Flash bug < 1232038947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i disagree. < 1232038947 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... can JS in a tab focus a different tab? < 1232038951 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, obviously, window.close < 1232038968 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, an evil site can reposition your mouse pointer then close the tab just as it thinks you're about to click < 1232038979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you click over something dangerous on the tab you visited just before it < 1232038990 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit unlikely, I suppose, but stranger things have been exploited < 1232039016 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like those file upload control exploits? < 1232039025 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes < 1232039032 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't thinking of those, but it's a similar idea < 1232039039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those definitely are browser bugs, though < 1232039047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way should a file upload box be under website control < 1232039096 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it still possible to sniff auto fill in data using JS? (i think it isn't) but that would be a browser bug too... < 1232039138 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't. IIRC, Firefox 2 is vulernable to those exploits. Firefox 3 prevents them by preventing user from editing file upload control path directly. Konqueror isn't vulernable because it prompts before uploading. < 1232039160 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was to ais523 < 1232039227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using auto fill-in data is probably a bug in the user. < 1232039237 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: yep, old bug, IIRC they fixed both Mozilla (and Firefox by extension) and Safari before it got publically announced < 1232039237 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1232039244 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.127 JOIN :#esoteric < 1232039248 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's a usefull feature and can be implemented securely < 1232039257 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jix: which feature? < 1232039257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but it should be user-triggered < 1232039263 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: auto form fillin < 1232039264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of filling in forms just like that < 1232039271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should be able to click, fill in this form < 1232039284 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: or it could fill in the form but mark the form as auto filled and unaccesable by scripts < 1232039288 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i think that is how it is done < 1232039297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shrug :P < 1232039302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could also mess up JS form validation < 1232039305 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least ff 3 marks the filled in forms in yellow until you check them < 1232039313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: JS form validation is ridiculous < 1232039318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and should be repeated server-side, at least < 1232039325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :repeated server side: no shit < 1232039330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be generated from a model in both cases < 1232039332 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :having it client-side to warn users slightly earlier is possibly helpful, but dubious < 1232039337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's really helpful < 1232039345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i get it all the time, oops, I messed up that field, so I fix it < 1232039347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of doing the whole form < 1232039349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :submitting < 1232039351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and getting 10 errors < 1232039353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixing them < 1232039356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, now I have 3 errors < 1232039360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, now it works < 1232039366 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and really, if you're auto-filling invalid data < 1232039378 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you have a problem, and the extra 2 seconds it takes for server-side validation won't really hurt you < 1232039380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you're auto-filling data that is probably valid < 1232039384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :websites may disagree. < 1232039516 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then they can disagree server-side < 1232039521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than messing up your UI < 1232039527 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not as if that happens very often < 1232039530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'messing up your ui', wtf < 1232039534 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even better, have an HTTP response code < 1232039538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm ending this conversation because it's ridiculous. < 1232039540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thx < 1232039543 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means "this data is invalid" < 1232039551 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the browser knows something went wrong with the auto-fill < 1232039554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is outside of http's jurisdiction. < 1232039557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm ending this conversation because it's ridiculous. < 1232039558 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm not so sure < 1232039562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm ending this conversation because it's ridiculous. < 1232039584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you've been doing a lot of arbitrarily declaring things ridiculous recently < 1232039611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're welcome. but I've never convinced you of anything, and vice-versa < 1232039657 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooooo < 1232039664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okoko < 1232040177 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: http://secunia.com/advisories/search/?search=javascript is a list of JS-related security bugs that have been found, btw < 1232040185 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some more serious and more JS-related than others, obviously < 1232040189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :software has bugs < 1232040192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is unsurprising < 1232040200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1232040203 0 :MigoMipo!n=kvirc@84-217-7-102.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1232040219 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just surprised that you claim that JS-blocking isn't a good idea, as a result < 1232041803 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1232041863 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.127 JOIN :#esoteric < 1232042551 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guys < 1232042568 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Slereah_ < 1232042570 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How old is the oldest machine, theoretical or otherwise, with stacks? < 1232042586 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am in a wondery mood < 1232042619 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders if it's before or after the Turing Machine
< 1232042634 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose steam engines had cooling stacks, but that probably isn't what you meant < 1232042640 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1232042655 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also there prolly isn't a lot before the TM. < 1232042661 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oldest machine? < 1232042668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: oldest machine with stacks < 1232042678 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arguably the TM had two, but it wasn't described like that < 1232042681 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a tm isn't a machine < 1232042683 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and besides, pushing one popped the other < 1232042704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: it's a theoretical machine < 1232042704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which Slereah_ specifically allowed < 1232042705 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, it's a stupid question < 1232042708 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood : Yes it is < 1232042710 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's right in the name! < 1232042738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how come every finn uses iki.fi < 1232042747 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe because it's a good server? < 1232042747 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Communism. < 1232042752 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They only have one ISP. < 1232042767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1232042770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not an isp < 1232042774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it forwards URLs and emails < 1232042781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. iki.fi/deewiant goes to users.tkk.fi/blahblahblah < 1232042900 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :query AnMaster < 1232042906 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm... < 1232042913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :query fbi < 1232042915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disregard that < 1232042922 0 :Corun!n=Corun@94-193-40-216.zone7.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1232042922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xdcc send horse_porn.avi < 1232042923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops < 1232042926 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to open a /query with AnMaster to look at my /query logs with him < 1232042959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ? < 1232042964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1232042970 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: checking what that rsync command was < 1232042978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1232043215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, seems the C-INTERCAL repo is back in business < 1232043218 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://envbot.kuonet.org/~ais523/c-intercal/_darcs/pristine/ for the file tree < 1232043225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://envbot.kuonet.org/~ais523/c-intercal/ for darcs download < 1232043928 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... Wonder what kind of class would language with no backward jumps allowed, only looping linear in values and with bignums plus builtin hyper operator present... < 1232043939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: like? < 1232043964 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know any examples of such language. It would be obiviously sub-TC... < 1232043975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in moar practical terms? :D < 1232044027 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: isn't that BLooP-class? < 1232044049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be nice to have a bloop-alike, without the explicit specification < 1232044154 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus of course associative tables for storing data during processing. < 1232044186 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Got URL? Googling turns up lots of unrelated links... < 1232044253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BlooP_and_FlooP < 1232044258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from Gödel, Escher, Bach < 1232044288 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such language could express function that would have f(1) = 1, f(2) = 4, f(3) = g64 , f(4) = < 1232044310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(4) = A(g64,g64) < 1232044311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1232044376 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't know how f(4) and A(g64,g64) relate to each other and which is bigger. But one thing is sure: They are both really huge even compared to g64. < 1232044388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this f? < 1232044408 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't any function theoretically able to be defined like that? < 1232044418 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you could just define it as a primitive < 1232044541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's all this, you ask? We like weasels. You like weasels. Everyone likes weasels. Our mission: to send weasels wherever people like weasels. And that means everywhere. < 1232044541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Weasel Trek has shipped fifteen plush weasels to hosts all over the world to be photographed, given a taste of local culture, and then sent on to another who shares the weasel way. < 1232044544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://weaseltrek.com/ < 1232044617 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1232044621 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want one :( < 1232044634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't notice the plush at first < 1232044646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and reading their about I was thinking, wtf, you can buy weasels from ikea? What? < 1232044673 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64 times recursed Conway arrow with variable values on sides, starting from four arrows. With x=3, it produces Graham's number. < 1232044678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=pW7opOMStZk Skydiving weasel < 1232044684 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1232045147 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, that language would be more powerful than BlooP, as BlooP expresses functions that are primitive-recursive, but that language could express A(m,n), which is not primitive recursive. < 1232045627 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1232046690 0 :Hiato!n=1@dsl-245-26-251.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1232047517 0 :Slereah!n=Slereah@92.139.163.2 JOIN :#esoteric < 1232048324 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1232048444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowhere docs the pcm format :( < 1232048570 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiiiiiiii < 1232048699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :register int *esp __asm__("%esp"); < 1232048701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that actually works < 1232048702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how cool is that? < 1232049027 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1232049213 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: http://www.wotsit.org/list.asp?search=pcm < 1232049251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the part where neitherresult was the right one < 1232049268 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pcm seems to be part of riff < 1232049307 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pulse Code Modulation (PCM) Format < 1232049321 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :line 3489 of the first document < 1232049334 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: iki.fi also offers DNS so that the address of your site can be foo.iki.fi < 1232049346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: why does everyone use it? < 1232049354 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it works? < 1232049364 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: because there are no monthly/yearly payments. < 1232049366 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, not "everyone" uses it :-P < 1232049371 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just the initial joiningment thing. < 1232049374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, why not just link to a uri like the rest of the world. < 1232049381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of PAYING for a url redirection service < 1232049385 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: because if your stuff moves your old URLs don't work. < 1232049400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rest of the world solves that by, um, not doing that. < 1232049401 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: 'iki' is search for 'ikuinen' meaning 'permanent' < 1232049404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crazy sedes. < 1232049406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*swedes < 1232049410 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: if you change your ISP, what're you going to do < 1232049413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, technically we have purl.org < 1232049416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: not host pages on my isp < 1232049424 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: damn straight < 1232049430 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what if I have no other hosting option < 1232049432 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: +free < 1232049439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop being a cheap bum :) < 1232049440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1232049461 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck that < 1232049463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :corth.c:12: warning: ‘noreturn’ function does return < 1232049465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh shut up gcc < 1232049483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by "noreturn" i mean DON'T GENERATE A FREAKING "ret" INSTRUCTION < 1232049502 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :put assert (false) at the end < 1232049509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that work? ha < 1232049516 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1232049517 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worth a try < 1232049527 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's specced to work in D where assert is a language construct :-P < 1232049539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: well, it makes sense for gcc to be complaining because i'm trying to tell it main() doesn't return < 1232049558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I clobber the stack in this program so I use the genius solution of "Don't ever, ever return, or call functions") < 1232049590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, it still buts a ret in there but doesn't complain < 1232049596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries asm("hlt") instead
< 1232049603 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: even with -O2? < 1232049608 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/3 < 1232049620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-Os would be more likely to do something ther < 1232049639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : hlt < 1232049639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : popl %ebp < 1232049640 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always forget that one exists :-P < 1232049641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ret < 1232049643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gcc fail < 1232049650 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :switch to D < 1232049651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zsh: illegal hardware instruction ./a.out < 1232049654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8-) < 1232049659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'm writing a forth. That would be dumb :D < 1232049663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :register int *esp asm("%esp"); < 1232049663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define PUSHL(x) asm("pushl %0" : : "r"(x) : "%esp") < 1232049668 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would it be dumb? :-P < 1232049669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is CRAZY LAND < 1232049681 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :register, heh < 1232049689 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if GCC ignores that < 1232049802 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: why use the hardware stack? < 1232049806 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :allocate your own on the heap < 1232049808 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please < 1232049822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: is that BLAZING FAST and CRAZY?! < 1232049823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO < 1232049835 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you writing it in C even? < 1232049901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: because I'm too incompetent to write asm < 1232049909 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you are using asm < 1232049913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only partly :P < 1232049919 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yuck < 1232049930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, you get a bus error if you don't ret < 1232049932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from main < 1232049947 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and really, how much slower can your own stack be? < 1232049958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.01ms < 1232049972 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :less < 1232049994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.00001ms < 1232050007 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, 2 cycles < 1232050022 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe 3 < 1232050034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1232050041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :utterly unacceptable < 1232050093 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's less than 0.00001 ms :-P < 1232050102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.0000000000000000000000001ms < 1232050103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :utterly unacceptable < 1232050111 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more than that though < 1232050119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 planck time < 1232050121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :utterly unacceptable < 1232050165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god, calling library functions is so ugly in C < 1232050169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in asm :P < 1232050170 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1232050186 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.5 × 10**-9 seconds at 2 ghz < 1232050253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 0.0000015ms < 1232050256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :utterly unacceptable < 1232050335 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhuh < 1232050341 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should write a forth < 1232050345 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll be faster than yours < 1232050396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<__< < 1232050573 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooh i should write a dc < 1232050592 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love dc < 1232050895 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would using gmp be cheating? < 1232051401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1232051408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write it as a string manipulation routine < 1232051526 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1232051532 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1232052156 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Konversation terminated!" < 1232052212 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"..." < 1232052295 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-100-124.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1232053462 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1232057803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:11 <[TEHb]> Guys, help me pls :-) < 1232057803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:11 <[TEHb]> I need help < 1232057805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:12 <[TEHb]> I have not eaten for three days < 1232057810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC is the correct place for advice on this matter < 1232057835 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's time to learn postscript! < 1232057840 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know a good tutorial? < 1232057876 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey guys i just wrote a goto < 1232057879 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this bad y/n < 1232057881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :n < 1232057886 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y < 1232057894 0 :flexo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y < 1232057895 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's bad if you have to ask. < 1232057907 0 :flexo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1232057907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotos are _awesome_ < 1232057913 0 :flexo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1232057918 0 :flexo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :computed gotos are awesome < 1232057924 0 :flexo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, gcc supports them < 1232057936 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flexo: how do computed gotos work? < 1232057946 0 :flexo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll show you < 1232057947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: you can pass around goto pointers. < 1232057948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and go to them. < 1232057961 0 :flexo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1232057964 0 :flexo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not really a computed goto < 1232057967 0 :flexo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: < 1232057969 0 :flexo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i still rock: < 1232057971 0 :flexo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/m32bb5f < 1232057980 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is that awesome? < 1232057990 0 :flexo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose this might only work on 32bit x86 < 1232058029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flexo: that's not a computed goto. < 1232058037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that IS confusing as fuck < 1232058046 0 :flexo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1232058048 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhhh < 1232058054 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did you get those constants in the array? < 1232058063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they're x86 machine code < 1232058087 0 :flexo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nawothnig@perez:~$ ./leet < 1232058087 0 :flexo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :98 9e 37 d5 31 14 30 c3 < 1232058091 0 :flexo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's kind of a quine. somewhat. < 1232058105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endianquine < 1232058106 0 :flexo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(byteorder is reversed) < 1232058299 0 :flexo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: so, unless your program looks like mine you should restructure it < 1232058484 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i can't figure out this bug < 1232058505 0 :flexo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :packets are beinng lost again < 1232058505 0 :flexo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1232058529 0 :flexo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will finally get my own line on tuesday < 1232058681 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate bugs < 1232060223 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1232060836 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1232061129 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do i exponentiate in postscript? < 1232061358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with luv < 1232061541 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Actually, that language would be more powerful than BlooP, as BlooP expresses functions that are primitive-recursive, but that language could express A(m,n), which is not primitive recursive. < 1232061549 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of BlooP with oracle... < 1232061708 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1232061886 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1232061949 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-124-131.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1232062890 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"..." < 1232063436 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even one that could be implemented on Turing machine to run in "finite" time... :-)