00:06:43 <ehird> who're you then? :)
00:09:29 <ehird> England. What brings you here?
00:09:57 <radioactivity> i dont really know, i was wondering about irc, i use to use it a lot.. few years ago..
00:10:37 <ehird> :) this channel's about esoteric programming languages. heard of them?
00:11:18 <radioactivity> oum, no, i thought it was about esoteric.. themes.. whats esoteric programming languages?
00:11:42 <ehird> A lot of people coming in here thinking that
00:11:59 <ehird> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Esoteric_programming_languages
00:12:11 <ehird> oklopol: esoterica
00:12:21 <ehird> "magick" and all that.
00:12:59 <ehird> i guess our current topic doesn't help
00:13:34 <oklopol> radioactivity: is jeje laughter?
00:13:50 <ehird> spanish people do that :-P
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00:14:37 <oklopol> i was actually just going by kerlo speaking spanish today.
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00:14:51 <ehird> radioactivity: "hahaha" is the typical english laugh, yeah
00:14:53 <oklopol> radioactivity: i use heh, hehe, hah and lol
00:15:04 <oklopol> they all have slightly different connotations
00:15:23 <ehird> heh: you're boring
00:15:27 <oklopol> well okay hehe and heh have slightly different connotations, the rest have entirely different ones.
00:15:27 <ehird> hah: you're stupid
00:16:14 <oklopol> hehe -> heh -> hah for "funnier" -> "wittier" i think.
00:16:39 <oklopol> smileys for stuff i actually lol at
00:17:22 <ehird> yeah I think it's because in spanish j = y kind of sound right
00:17:50 <ehird> i go "HAHAHAHAHAHAhadhajsgdkjaskfhaksjdfhddfglhkfhjk"
00:20:03 <oklopol> afaik spanish "j" is english "h", but not as deep in the mouth
00:20:59 <oklopol> radioactivity: you could just say you don't pronounce it.
00:21:05 <radioactivity> here if we say something like 'voy a hacer pasteles' the word 'hacer' sounds like there is no first letter.
00:21:33 <oklopol> but you don't have to explain, everyone knows spanish
00:22:33 <oklopol> tbh i didn't even understand what you said there
00:22:41 <oklopol> you're gonna make pancakes?
00:25:23 <radioactivity> well i didnt knew this esoteric programming thingie
00:27:24 <radioactivity> jejaj, brainfuck, nothing to do with operation mindfuck, right?
00:27:41 <oklopol> i don't know operation mindfuck
00:27:50 * ehird googles. Discordian thing.
00:29:58 <comex> I'm deciding whether I want to learn haskell
00:31:32 <bsmntbombdood> why would i get 0xffffffffdeadbeef instead of 0xdeadbeef
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00:35:15 <comex> will #haskellers kill me if I ask stupid questions in there :/
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00:40:08 <comex> also, fuck languages that require you to make source files to define things
00:40:17 <comex> e.g. prolog, haskell
00:40:46 <comex> cf: stupid questions[
00:42:48 <comex> oklopol: also, by saying that, you probably sped up my learning of haskell by a large factor
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07:46:34 <ski__> (comex : btw, usually you don't *have*to* make a source file for defining predicates in prolog ..)
07:47:43 <ski__> |: foo(X) :- bar(X).
07:48:40 <ski__> ?- assertz(( bar(Y) :- baz(Z),Y is Z + 25 )).
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08:22:08 <ktne> when is ehird coming here usually?
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10:00:25 <AnMaster> ktne, European afternoon I think
10:00:59 <AnMaster> West Europe that is (he lives in UK)
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10:20:11 <ktne> AnMaster: thanks
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15:18:51 <ktne> ehird: do you happen to know an accessible paper on CPS transformation?
15:19:25 <ehird> Nope... It's always seemed quite simple to me... ktne: Look at the examples on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Continuation-passing_style? The transformation is really quite simple
15:20:03 <ktne> well i just thinking that maybe there is a catch and ad-hoc methods wouldn't work
15:20:12 <ehird> Not as far as I know :-)
15:34:27 <ehird> <lament> if we allow "non-repetitive infinite initial conditions" <lament> i'm pretty sure that makes SMETANA turing-complete as well<lament> it would be a very simple structure, it has a "head" and then a "tail" consisting of identical pieces of code with different numbers (trivially generated by any process)
15:34:34 <ehird> ais523 logreader: thoughts?
15:36:54 <ktne> ehird: is CPS transformation of sequencial code any different?
15:37:06 <ktne> because it looks like all examples are functional
15:37:28 <ehird> (a (lambda (_) b))
15:37:36 <ehird> (because you're discarding the result)
16:11:29 <AnMaster> googled for: canon eos 5d megapixels
16:11:37 <AnMaster> Canon EOS 5D — Megapixels: 12.8Mp
16:11:37 <AnMaster> According to http://www.dcmag.co.uk/Canon_EOS_5D.YcxcOYJoY7WsLA.html
16:12:06 <ehird> screen scraping is hard
16:19:30 <AnMaster> off topic: best case design for PCI slots ever (no screws needed for anything in this case!): http://kuonet.org/~anmaster/photos/phoenix/phoenix_1116.jpg It's an old dell case (old as in "Designed for Windows 98" sticker)
16:20:14 <ktne> AnMaster: quite neat
16:20:53 <AnMaster> yeah there are more images of it in the same directory in case you want to see how it is opened (like a book)
16:21:00 <AnMaster> http://kuonet.org/~anmaster/photos/phoenix/phoenix_1110.jpg
16:22:03 <AnMaster> ktne, compared to my desktop which needs like 15 screws to open and is a mess of cables inside... this case is heaven.
16:23:07 <ehird> Not many cables here. :P
16:23:43 <AnMaster> ehird, well true, but as far as I remember macs (apart from mac pro) are kind of hard to get inside and replace parts), apart from ram
16:23:56 <AnMaster> ram tends to be easy to reach on them, oh and airport card on older ones
16:24:04 <ehird> The RAM is in a special slot at the bottom.
16:24:19 <AnMaster> on my old ibook it was under the keyboard
16:24:19 <ehird> You just put it on the side, take out the screws, and the ram slots are there on the bottom
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16:24:40 <AnMaster> just pull some plastic things, flip it back
16:24:50 <ehird> I actually have one more cable than is strictly necessary - I could use wifi instead of ethernet - but that'd be slow.
16:24:56 <ehird> (The only other cable coming out is a power cord.)
16:25:04 <AnMaster> ehird, however, an imac wouldn't allow me to replace the cd drive as easily as this dell
16:25:04 <ehird> (I don't think we've quite got wireless electricity)
16:25:05 <ais523> meh, you should use wireless power too
16:25:11 <ehird> ais523: Beat you to it.
16:25:20 <ehird> AnMaster: True, but I don't need to replace the CD drive. :P
16:25:28 <AnMaster> I just pulled the old drive out (old cd reader) and replaced it with a slightly less old cd burner
16:25:41 <AnMaster> true, colour doesn't match any more
16:26:01 <ehird> Mine's a DVD burner, so there's not really much upgrading I could do to it.
16:26:10 <AnMaster> ais523, btw for reference: http://kuonet.org/~anmaster/photos/phoenix/phoenix_1116.jpg http://kuonet.org/~anmaster/photos/phoenix/phoenix_1110.jpg
16:26:11 <ehird> Unless I wanted blu-ray or something. Yech.
16:26:26 <ehird> It looks like a Transformer.
16:26:27 <AnMaster> ehird, well true, my case was way older
16:26:36 <ehird> Optimus Mersenne Prime
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16:26:56 <AnMaster> actually, I think it is "Optiplex" not "Optimus"
16:27:15 <ehird> I hope that was, like, intentional.
16:27:20 <ehird> You do realise what I was referencing?
16:27:33 <ehird> Transformers. Google it.
16:28:02 <AnMaster> but I haven't heard of "Optimus Mersenne Prime", though I know what a Mersenne Prime is
16:28:14 <ehird> Google Optimus Prime.
16:28:17 <AnMaster> Results 1 - 1 of 1 for "Optimus Mersenne Prime". (0.38 seconds)
16:28:24 <ehird> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Optimus_Prime
16:33:06 <ehird> you haven't asked him a question
16:33:09 <ehird> what do you expect as a response?
16:33:31 <ais523> well, I could just not respond
16:33:41 <ehird> that was what I was expecting.
16:33:44 <ais523> personally, I think it's simplest to nickping someone in the same line as you ask the question in
16:33:55 <ehird> when I'm imitating
16:34:02 <AnMaster> ais523, http://kuonet.org/~anmaster/photos/phoenix/phoenix_1116.jpg http://kuonet.org/~anmaster/photos/phoenix/phoenix_1110.jpg <-- what do you think of that case design
16:34:25 <ehird> ah yes, ais523 the foremost expert on case design
16:34:38 <ehird> ais523: read the logs? i asked a question to do with the 2,3 machine, quoting lament
16:34:58 <AnMaster> ehird, um, did I claim he was an expert?
16:35:00 <ais523> case design never was my strong point, but I've sometimes had to do it because the person who was meant to be doing it didn't
16:35:16 <ehird> AnMaster: you seem a bit obsessed with the case s'all
16:35:33 <AnMaster> ehird, anyone would be after looking inside the mess that is my desktop
16:35:46 <ehird> Unlikely, my old desktop is almost certainly worse.
16:35:50 <ehird> It computed more with dust than a CPU.
16:35:58 <ais523> AnMaster: I'm not sure if I have much of an opinion on that
16:36:05 <ais523> it looks like a normal computer case to me...
16:36:09 <AnMaster> ehird, I mean it is like having to use TECO and then suddenly trying modern kate or whatever
16:36:36 <AnMaster> ais523, I just like that you don't need any screws at all in it
16:36:41 <ais523> AnMaster: Kate isn't even Turing-complete!
16:36:49 <ehird> Editor analogies: the new car analogies.
16:36:50 <ais523> actually, maybe it is, but not as obviously as TECO
16:36:52 <oklopol> we had proving there are infinite mersenne primes as an exercise on our discrete math course
16:36:54 <AnMaster> ais523, well true, but it is easier to use
16:37:26 <ehird> I dunno, I'd prefer TECO to Kate, probably.
16:37:40 <ais523> ehird: have you ever tried Kate?
16:37:44 <AnMaster> ehird, ok what about TECO vs. <your favourite editor>
16:37:49 <ehird> Used it when I used KDE.
16:37:54 <ehird> With TECO I can build a glob of macros to make it bearable (like rms did :P).
16:37:55 <ais523> KDE3 Kate or KDE4 Kate?
16:38:00 <ehird> Whereas Kate is just... limited.
16:38:02 <ehird> It doesn't do much.
16:38:14 <ais523> strange, I rather liked that one
16:38:17 <AnMaster> ais523, I haven't used KDE4 yet so I was comparing with KDE3
16:38:34 <ais523> AnMaster: neither KDE4.0 nor KDE4.1 is finished
16:38:38 <ehird> It just doesn't do much in the way of advanced editing.
16:38:42 <ehird> It's not efficient.
16:38:43 <AnMaster> anyway what about teco vs. <your favourite text editor and/or programming language>
16:38:43 <ais523> but the unfinishedness in .0 and .1 really shows
16:38:47 <ehird> TECO is obscure and horrid, but could be efficient.
16:39:12 <ais523> famously, Emacs was originally written in TECO
16:39:16 <ais523> ehird knows that already
16:39:19 <ehird> ais523: I mentioned that
16:39:21 <ais523> but I'm not sure if everyone here does
16:39:22 <ehird> AnMaster: Haskell, obviously. And for text editor, well, I like TextMate but I use emacs more, since it does Haskell better.
16:39:26 <oklopol> no comment on globally unsolved math as an exercise? you ppl are seriously weird.
16:39:27 <ehird> 16:38 <ehird> With TECO I can build a glob of macros to make it bearable (like rms did :P).
16:39:35 <ehird> oklopol: did you solve it
16:39:55 <ehird> Did you lose marks
16:40:23 <oklopol> well it wasn't actually one of the questions, more like for extra points
16:40:33 <oklopol> i was the only one who didn't get it
16:40:38 <ehird> I'd just make the whole goddamn paper all unsolved shit
16:40:45 <ehird> they're bound to get it eventually
16:40:52 <ehird> and I'll be famous
16:41:02 <oklopol> yeah right. if there's anything at all complex, i'm the only one who solves it
16:41:05 <oklopol> pretty much for all courses
16:41:13 <ehird> oklopol what is 2+2
16:42:03 <oklopol> i like j, it's replacing python as my calculator already
16:42:14 <oklopol> of course, it's extremely annoying as a calculator
16:42:57 <ehird> j is pretty awesome but I have ideaaaaas to make it better
16:43:06 <ehird> in j can you define adverbssss
16:43:59 <ehird> oklopol: why is it annoying as a calculator
16:44:16 <oklopol> i mean math that was invented a million years ago is pretty much optimized. that includes the precedences of +/*/^, they are perfect.
16:44:45 <oklopol> of course the number representation was invented a million years ago, and i fucking hate it
16:44:49 <ehird> oklopol: I guess % for division is annoying
16:45:05 <ehird> you should be able to use the unicode char
16:45:34 <oklopol> that's simple substitution, the precedence thing somehow feels like i'm structuring the whole calculation wrong (probably because it's more verbose)
16:45:55 <ehird> learn j then you'll know :P
16:46:09 <AnMaster> oh right.... array programming languages tend to run out symbols pretty quickly
16:46:18 <ehird> no, it's not running out
16:46:21 <oklopol> AnMaster: / and \ are fold and umm what's it called
16:46:22 <ehird> it's giving priority to some things
16:46:26 <ehird> also, it doesn't actually use many symbols
16:46:45 <ehird> you just spout out meaningless unfunniness like something that spouts out a lot, don't you.
16:46:50 <AnMaster> and iirc php? (or they wouldn't have used \ for namespace)
16:47:03 <ehird> no, php devs just can't write a parser.
16:47:14 <ehird> oklopol: you should be able to do this:
16:47:46 <AnMaster> ehird, but if they can't handle . or :: for namespace they can't handle the difference between = and == either, yet they have = == and ===
16:47:55 <AnMaster> so yeah "can't write a parser" I guess is correct
16:48:51 <AnMaster> set my variable to one divided by five
16:48:53 <ehird> that / is actually a division slash.
16:48:54 <oklopol> actually i find the division stuff not so nice in math, often i actually try to keep my numbers integral just so i don't have to start using twice the height.
16:48:58 <AnMaster> wait that would be applescript...
16:49:29 <oklopol> ehird: sorry, i cannot read that.
16:49:31 <AnMaster> also no one that has seen applescript should be able to like apple...
16:49:41 <AnMaster> oklopol, charset and/or font fail
16:49:46 <ehird> applescript's semantics are useful. the syntax is stupid, but who the fuck cares.
16:49:56 <ehird> oklopol: it's superscript 1, division slash, subscript 0
16:50:24 <AnMaster> ehird, oh? no "combining" char+
16:50:38 <ehird> unfortunately, none of those symbols are valdi j
16:50:42 <ehird> so you can't assign them
16:51:04 <FireFly> I wonder why there's no esolang with support for such signs
16:51:10 <ehird> FireFly: unikitten
16:51:42 <oklopol> unikitten sounds so cute i wanna hug it.
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16:51:53 <ehird> it's like el cuto.
16:52:18 <FireFly> it must support ÷ and ×, right?
16:52:38 <AnMaster> ehird, I think kitten == cute is silly. I mean they grow up cats. Is an old tomcat "cute"?
16:52:41 <ehird> FireFly: sure, but also the division slash
16:52:48 <ehird> but only if you use super/subscripts
16:52:57 <AnMaster> so I just replace every mention of "kitten" in a "cute" context on irc with "garfield"
16:53:04 <ehird> AnMaster: butterflies aren't pretty because they used to be caterpillars
16:53:12 <ehird> garfield isn't a kitten
16:53:15 <ehird> he's a fucking cartoon cat
16:53:18 <AnMaster> ehird, also kittens aren't cute IMO
16:53:19 <ehird> kitten != cat, cartoon != real
16:53:28 <AnMaster> ehird, I know, but why make sense?
16:53:35 <ehird> so just stop being annoying and saying GARFIELD GARFIELD GARFIELD GARFIELD GARFIELD GARFIELD GARFIELD GARFIELD GARFIELD GARFIELD GARFIELD all the time
16:53:40 <ehird> it's really irritating
16:54:10 <oklopol> women aren't cute cuz some day they die anyway and worms eat their face
16:54:28 <AnMaster> ehird, also kittens -> allergy medicine
16:54:50 <ehird> yeah well just because you can't appreciate kittens doesn't mean you have to ruin it in a hissy fit for us
16:55:08 <oklopol> yeah us kitten lovers are very sensitive about our love fo kittens
16:55:20 <AnMaster> ehird, just because you are so sensitive means you have to complain everytime someone disagrees with you
16:55:42 <ehird> err, saying garfield and whining whenever someone says kitten is annoying. that's not the same as saying "i don't find kittens cute", once.
16:56:01 <ehird> please learn the difference between stating your opinion and whining about your opinion constantly whenever it comes up.
16:56:04 <ehird> one is not annoying, the other is
16:56:25 <AnMaster> ehird, last time I believe was before FireFly joined for example
16:56:35 <AnMaster> so it is about informing any new people
16:56:43 <AnMaster> some collateral damage may be involved
16:56:46 <ehird> i'm really amused you think they care.
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16:57:10 <AnMaster> ehird, of course. I know I'm the center of the universe.~
16:59:34 <MigoMipo> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NVtxEA7AEHg
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17:00:04 <ehird> oklopol: i still haven't figured out how to do that thing in j :<
17:02:02 <oklopol> err actually i do not remember
17:02:23 <ehird> "here is a list, make all unique length-2 lists with picks from this list, then map them all as the left argument to this op"
17:02:35 <ehird> the solution you gave was like 20 characters longer than the APL to do that :<
17:06:47 <AnMaster> hm is there anything array programming languages are bad at?
17:08:30 <AnMaster> yes of course it is possible, as long as you have stdin/stdout
17:09:16 <AnMaster> ehird, but would it be something it was "good" at, or just "not bad" at?
17:09:28 <AnMaster> actually it would need a main loop anywya
17:09:35 <ehird> you'd map over the input lines
17:09:49 <ehird> you never, ever _need_ to loop in array programming languages
17:10:01 <ehird> It'd be fine, anyway. Not much chance to excersize its paradigm, but IRC bots are inherently uninteresting anyway.
17:10:59 <AnMaster> ehird, what about text processing? In sed-style
17:11:09 <ehird> what are you talking about
17:12:18 <AnMaster> I mean how easy would it be to write something like: /^foo: /s/abc([0-9][0-9]*)/def\1ghj/;/quux/d
17:12:30 <ehird> umm, that's highly irrelevant to the programming environment
17:12:37 <ehird> that's just trivial boring library stuff that nobody cares about
17:12:42 <AnMaster> ehird, but I mean a program that performed the same task
17:12:52 <ehird> it's nothing to do with the paradigm
17:12:54 <ehird> trivial boring library stuff that nobody cares about
17:13:20 <AnMaster> ehird, actually not sure how you mean? APL has a "sed" library?
17:14:13 <AnMaster> oh well, forget it then, if you aren't going to make any sense.
17:14:15 <ehird> oklopol: J lies :<
17:14:18 <oklopol> i think it's somewhat relevant :| slicin n dicin.
17:14:55 <oklopol> ehird: both are perfectly reasonable
17:15:05 <ehird> oklopol: not together
17:15:06 <ehird> that's not consistent
17:15:24 <ehird> x*(y/x)=y is a pretty good law :P
17:15:44 <ehird> clearly n*_ should look at the last division you did
17:15:47 <ehird> to see what it should be
17:16:26 <ehird> i love sql quoting
17:17:02 <ehird> hmm i wonder how to get permutations in j
17:17:40 <oklopol> 1 2 3 (([,]) (0: { [) 3)"0/ 4 5 6 <<< why no give 3 3 $ 1 1 1 2 2 2 3 3 3 :|
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17:41:18 <oklopol> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Alexander_horned_sphere.png <<< this thing here, it's perfection
17:43:52 <ehird> dude is that recursive
17:45:43 <ehird> oklopol: more perfect: http://www.ultrafractal.com/showcase/jos/alexanders-horn.html
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18:01:21 * ehird considers writing logic-checker-thingy
18:01:40 <ktne> logic checker?
18:02:03 <ktne> you mean something like a proof validator?
18:02:40 <ktne> well, you need to specify the initial state of a proof
18:02:43 <ktne> and all valid transitions
18:02:49 <ktne> and a finishing condition
18:02:56 <ktne> and then you go through the list of transitions
18:03:02 <ktne> checking to see if each one of them is valid
18:03:11 <ktne> until you end the proof
18:03:34 <ktne> well i was just doing a bit of loud brainstorming here :)
18:04:10 <ehird> my main aim is to be sort of both a blend of prolog and something to do things like check soundness of logic, e.g. to detect logical fallacies
18:04:34 <ktne> wouldn't be prolog usable for that?
18:05:42 <ehird> I'm just thinking of things like:
18:05:42 <ehird> ? ((P => Q) ^ Q) => P
18:05:55 <ktne> well you need some sort of parametrization too
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18:50:00 <oerjan> <ehird> But it's just a random name for discussion of a variety of topics including AI, cake, #zot, and the topics applicable in #zot.
18:50:15 <oerjan> i assume the second topic is not entirely accurate.
18:50:27 <ehird> Perhaps it was a lie.
18:50:46 <lament> you lie once, you'll never be trusted again.
18:51:08 <oerjan> lament: that's an interesting lie
18:53:00 <oerjan> <radioactivity> oum, no, i thought it was about esoteric.. themes.. whats esoteric programming languages?
18:53:18 <oerjan> since the channel is rarely on topic, this would not be that off topic
18:54:04 <ais523> so, did radioactivity become an esoprogrammer?
18:54:56 <oerjan> <oklopol> radioactivity: is jeje laughter?
18:55:11 <oerjan> and here i thought for a moment it was a phonetic spelling of yeah, yeah
18:55:35 <oerjan> of course in spanish it _would_ be a phonetic spelling of heh, heh
18:57:53 <oerjan> <ehird> heh: you're boring
18:57:59 <oerjan> that's funnier out of context
19:02:31 <oerjan> <comex> will #haskellers kill me if I ask stupid questions in there :/
19:03:07 <oerjan> as i recall, no, in fact they will ban anyone who mocks you instead. they have a _strict_ newbie-friendly policy.
19:03:22 <ais523> what if newbies mock each other?
19:03:26 <oerjan> of course it may have changed, but i doubt it.
19:03:35 <oerjan> well trolls are banned too
19:03:39 <lament> it's a ridiculously newbie-friendly channel-
19:03:46 <lament> except for when you ask a question and nobody answers
19:03:52 <lament> because they're all stupid
19:04:17 <oerjan> lament: this the same #haskell i used to frequent?
19:04:41 <lament> oerjan: you don't go there anymore?
19:04:49 <oerjan> otoh i mostly answered questions rather than asking them
19:05:09 <oklopol> no that was not the reason, so i'm still confident
19:06:07 <oerjan> i don't have the energy for that much abstract thinking any more
19:07:53 -!- psygnisfive has joined.
19:08:02 <lament> oerjan: so what do you do in your spare time?
19:10:00 <oerjan> webcomics, reddit, some news sources...
19:10:46 <lament> oerjan: you're boring, just like i am :(
19:11:00 <oklopol> hard to say, haven't tried.
19:11:02 <lament> reddit is horrible though
19:11:17 <psygnisfive> would you consider wearing a skirt, oklopol?
19:11:18 <oklopol> lament: but you play jazz, that's kinda cool!
19:11:30 <lament> it was nice when it was mostly news about haskell
19:11:30 <oerjan> lament: not if you love pun threads :D
19:11:45 <lament> and i suppose i was happy when banana scheme was on it
19:11:57 <lament> but these days it's almost slashdot
19:11:58 <oklopol> lament: please be insulted.
19:12:15 <oerjan> i think haskell has its own subreddit now
19:12:21 <lament> oklopol: i do play jazz, if you can call that jazz, if you can call that play.
19:12:21 <ehird> hacker news is shit
19:12:27 <lament> psygnisfive: never heard of it
19:12:27 <ehird> paul graham circlejerk 24/7
19:12:51 <ehird> lament: reddit.com/r/haskell
19:12:56 <oklopol> lament: well right, i meant for a living, but i guess when it comes to not being boring that matters not.
19:13:17 <lament> ehird: the haskell reddit is just a clone of planet haskell, which i read
19:13:34 <lament> psygnisfive: is news.ycombinator.com any good?
19:13:35 <ehird> psygnisfive: next you will learn words of >2 letters.
19:13:40 <lament> i'm wary of pg-related stuff
19:13:54 <psygnisfive> i mean, there is a disproportionate amount of pg whoring
19:13:56 <lament> just looking at the headers
19:14:00 <ehird> it's ugly, slow to load, and it's pretty much reddit, except everyone circlejerks instead of flaming
19:14:03 <lament> "How did we geeks become experts on macroeconomics"?
19:14:14 <lament> "Yahoo Should Buy Microsoft"
19:14:20 <lament> "Careers and Marriage"
19:14:25 <ehird> GOOD PROGRAMMERS AREN'T LAZY
19:14:27 <psygnisfive> ehird, i find that reddit contains a lot of non-techy stuff
19:14:33 <ehird> psygnisfive: /r/programming
19:14:37 <ehird> lament: how to become a better programmer
19:14:53 <lament> "New Puzzle Challenges Math Skills"
19:15:07 <ehird> You've got 6 minutes, right?
19:15:09 <ehird> Use a bigger font size.
19:15:10 <ehird> This is ridiculously easy -- but it works.
19:15:12 <ehird> Go to your favourite IDE, and crank the font-size up. I switched from 10pt to 14 pt. The difference is that a lot less code fits on the screen at once.
19:15:16 <ehird> The effect is: you're forced to write shorter methods. And that's a Good Thing.
19:15:17 <ehird> (Scott Hanselman recommends that one)
19:15:19 <lament> "Recruiting Drops At Business Schools"
19:15:24 <ehird> Make hard-coded strings look ugly.
19:15:26 <ehird> I learnt this from Joe Cooney.
19:15:28 <ehird> Go to your favourite IDE, and set it so that literal strings stand right out -- for example a yellow background with a red font. Make 'em ugly. Damn ugly. This will encourage you to perform less hard coding, and to notice when you are embedding strings in your text.
19:15:31 <lament> "Why aren't developers interested in Ada?"
19:15:32 <ehird> .........................
19:15:50 <lament> "Micropayments, Reimagined"
19:15:53 <lament> i don't want to read this :(
19:17:39 * oerjan directs his virus scanner to psygnisfive
19:18:21 <oklopol> bigger font size? yeah sure the gain from not *accidentally* shorter methods outweighs not seeing as great a proportion of your code.
19:18:23 <lament> you're using a mac? that's gay
19:18:43 <oerjan> oklopol: you accidentally all your methods?
19:18:43 <ehird> lament: that's right, gaybag.
19:18:53 <ais523> I need antivirus despite using Linux, the terms of service of the wireless here says so
19:18:54 <ehird> lament is also using a mac, psygnisfive.
19:18:56 <oklopol> oerjan: yes, i use small fonts.
19:19:10 <ais523> not that it ever finds anything
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19:19:14 <lament> gay people aren't allowed to run channels
19:19:20 <lament> also it's not me, it's calamari
19:19:54 <lament> also starting today, i'm using a mac at work! wooo!
19:20:07 <psygnisfive> a friend just changed jobs and is not longer using a mac at work. :(
19:20:11 <oerjan> calamari with his tentacles, now that is perverse
19:21:06 <lament> i decided i probably want to code in haskell for a living
19:22:07 <oerjan> <ehird> <lament> if we allow "non-repetitive infinite initial conditions" <lament> i'm pretty sure that makes SMETANA turing-complete as well<lament> it would be a very simple structure, it has a "head" and then a "tail" consisting of identical pieces of code with different numbers (trivially generated by any process)
19:22:37 <ehird> yeah lament was saying that if 2,3=tc smetana=tc
19:22:40 <oerjan> i already described such a setup on the old esoteric mailing list
19:23:26 <lament> somehow people are fine with infinite initial setup for automatons, but not for programs
19:24:12 <oerjan> the thing is you need a program to describe the infinite setup...
19:24:40 <lament> oerjan: same with automata
19:25:06 <lament> even "infitely big empty field" is an infinite setup
19:26:08 <oerjan> but programs _started_ as the idea of a finite algorithm description
19:26:39 <lament> and you can't really have a finite automaton setup
19:26:45 <lament> since it's not defined what happens at the edges
19:27:11 <oklopol> you people think you're so tough.
19:27:33 <oerjan> actually i'm kind of squishy, mostly
19:28:45 <oerjan> <ktne> ehird: is CPS transformation of sequencial code any different?
19:29:25 <oerjan> you should take a look at raph levien's IO language (_not_ the OO one)
19:29:41 <ehird> it's not very interesting :P
19:31:05 <oerjan> it shows how to make a syntax that _looks_ sequential, but is really CPS
19:31:37 <ehird> the best way is to CPS-transform regular code
19:32:48 <oerjan> ehird: i think we'll have to suspend your esoteric license now
19:33:12 <ehird> ktne isn't trying to make an esolang, which he's said several times. I don't know why he asks here, but there you go.
19:33:27 <lament> i thought sequential code was already CPS
19:33:40 <ehird> he's doing sequential & functional
19:34:17 <ehird> non-pure functional
19:34:35 <lament> monads don't have to be pure
19:34:50 <MizardX> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concon :)
19:35:08 <ehird> lament: he's basically making something like scheme but more imperativer
19:35:38 <ehird> lament: he's also trying to get it as fast as C.
19:40:18 <ehird> a guy coded a program.
19:40:29 <ehird> http://tlrobinson.net/blog/2009/02/07/game-of-life-generator/
19:41:00 <ehird> t'was on /r/programming
19:41:54 <lament> haha, someone's comment
19:41:56 <lament> "just in time for Valentine's day, thanks :)"
19:42:16 <psygnisfive> thats pretty impressive that you can code an abstraction for this
19:42:34 <lament> it looks remarkably like a physical object too
19:42:38 <ehird> Life is TC and it's just a dot matrix printer :P
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19:42:52 <ehird> i mean, it's just gliders.
19:42:59 <ehird> you just send out a shitload of gliders in a pattern
19:43:02 <ehird> that is not particularly difficult
19:43:04 <psygnisfive> the complexity of designing this is more the impressive part
19:43:07 <oerjan> someone make a scanner :D
19:43:26 <psygnisfive> also, these gliders seem to be moving horizontally not diagonally
19:43:26 <lament> yes we'll make the scanner right after we make the impenetrable wall
19:43:26 <ehird> that WOULD be impressive
19:43:38 <ehird> stuff crashes into it
19:43:40 <ehird> and it prints it out
19:44:05 <lament> spaceships, not gliders
19:44:33 <lament> i assume they're http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Game_of_life_animated_LWSS.gif
19:45:05 <psygnisfive> and the SCALE of the whole thing is ridiculous
19:45:12 <psygnisfive> i mean, look at the size of the landscape, its enormous!
19:45:21 <lament> psygnisfive: you've seen the turing machine, right?
19:45:32 <ehird> once you see that and the unit cell
19:45:53 <ehird> psygnisfive: it's a game of life emulator in gol
19:46:02 <ehird> http://www.radicaleye.com/lifepage/patterns/unitcell/ucdesc.html
19:46:38 <ehird> eigenratio is 5760
19:46:57 <lament> game of life is at once really pretty and really horrendous
19:47:17 <psygnisfive> i dont follow what a unit cell is by that definition x.x
19:47:27 <lament> psygnisfive: it's a cell in the game of life, duh
19:47:43 <lament> you put a bunch of them in a grid and you got the game of life
19:47:53 <ehird> psygnisfive: basically
19:47:58 <ehird> it acts as one cell
19:48:04 <ehird> you could arrange multiple unit cells into a glider
19:48:08 <ehird> and they would turn off and on etc
19:48:14 <ehird> it's a game of life simulator _in_ game of lif
19:48:17 <ehird> simulates one cell
19:48:35 <psygnisfive> its a Life construct that simulates an individual cell of Life
19:48:43 <Slereah2> How can it simulate only one cell?
19:48:54 <ehird> Slereah2: you put them next to each other
19:48:58 <ehird> to simulate multiple cells
19:49:14 <Slereah2> But... How are the edge cells determined?
19:49:20 <Slereah2> Do they assume the border is empty?
19:49:32 <ehird> it depends what grid you run it on
19:49:34 <ehird> if infinite, infinite
19:49:39 <ehird> if limited and wrapping ,limited and wrapping
19:50:05 <lament> Slereah2: edge behaviour is undefined in game of life
19:50:12 <psygnisfive> yeah the edgeness is a property of the universe you run life in, not the game of life itself
19:50:13 <lament> so you need either an infinite or a wrapping setup
19:50:15 <Slereah2> I mean, how do they know that the next cell is full or not?
19:50:22 <Slereah2> Do they send little spaceships if fullN
19:50:25 <lament> Slereah2: if it's full, a glider arrives from it
19:50:38 <Slereah2> So it's assumed empty at the edge, i guess
19:51:11 <Slereah2> lament : Only if you use a fancy infinite computer
19:51:18 <Slereah2> But we work for a living you know!
19:51:25 <lament> Slereah2: the behaviour of a cell at the edge of a game of life field is undefined.
19:51:40 <lament> (as far as i understand the rules)
19:51:41 <Slereah2> Yes, but that interpreter is only one cell
19:51:46 <lament> no, that's only one cell
19:51:56 <lament> it's not an interpreter
19:51:59 <Slereah2> So it's not the game of life itself, unless you stack an infinity of it
19:52:13 <lament> as with any other automaton, you need infinite initial setup
19:52:21 <ehird> generally, you have finite on cells
19:52:51 <ehird> Slereah2: GoL host space = unit cell space
19:53:00 <ehird> i.e., you can simulate it just putting unit cells on an empty field
19:53:50 <Slereah2> Idea : MAKE A UNIT CELL MADE OF UNIT CELL
19:54:00 <lament> trivial. A lot of copy-pasting.
19:54:21 <Slereah2> How do you decide the initial state of the cell?
19:54:41 <lament> i think it depends on whether there's a glider between the long boats?
19:54:54 <Slereah2> Totally like normal GOL, psygnisfive
19:55:14 <psygnisfive> slereah, obviously theres something that denotes unitcell state
19:55:32 <psygnisfive> you decide initial state by just setting that something just like you do with normal GoL
19:55:46 <psygnisfive> "deciding" is the same. its a decision. that you the person makes.
19:55:58 <oerjan> Slereah2: Idea : MAKE AN INFINITE RECURSION OF UNIT CELLS
19:56:03 <oerjan> (also trivial, really)
19:56:22 <Slereah2> psygnisfive : AND I WAS ASKING WHAT THAT SOMETHING IS, DQN DQN
19:56:54 <ehird> what would be nice is an O(grid size) algorithm for going an arbitrary amount of steps forward in gol
19:57:52 <psygnisfive> i think such a thing has been proven to be mathematically impossible. or atleast a mathematical abstraction of the behavior of CAs is impossible to some degree
19:57:56 <oerjan> wait, in that unit cell setup do you need to use unit cells to simulate off cells too, or can you just put empty space there?
19:57:58 <psygnisfive> and i think that's what would be necessary
19:58:05 <ehird> is the idea, I think
19:58:18 <psygnisfive> i think you'd need unit cells for off cells
19:58:19 <oerjan> if it sends gliders it might be a bit hard
19:58:27 <psygnisfive> because if you didnt have unit cells there too, they couldnt turn on
19:58:37 <ehird> i think it copies itself
19:58:43 <oerjan> well you _can_ build things with gliders
19:59:59 <lament> i think you could simulate a finite field with a finite field of unit cells
20:00:22 <lament> any gliders at the edges would just fly off to infinity
20:03:05 <oerjan> hm in http://www.radicaleye.com/lifepage/patterns/unitcell/ucdesc.html it seems that the cell has two states, so not empty space
20:03:25 <ehird> where's the two states
20:04:01 <oerjan> i mean from the event list at the end
20:04:31 <FireFly> Someone should make a GoLfile -> GoLfile in Unitcells converter
20:06:11 -!- olsner has joined.
20:06:16 <FireFly> Yep, but it'd be easier than copy-pasting the patterns
20:06:52 -!- MigoMipo has joined.
20:07:24 <ehird> I JUST MADE A SIERPINSKI TRIANGLE IN LIFE
20:07:33 <ehird> Without intending to!!
20:07:57 <lament> pics or it didn't happen
20:07:59 <ehird> I just drew a really long line and wow.
20:08:00 * oerjan for a moment thought ehird was still being sarcastic
20:08:27 <ehird> why would I be sarcastic
20:08:30 <ehird> do I look like a foo
20:08:38 <oerjan> it's sort of your natural state :D
20:08:47 <FireFly> With some ruleset, it's what one single cell being on generates.. It comes with Golly
20:08:56 <ehird> http://xs136.xs.to/xs136/09071/picture_1324.png
20:08:57 <ehird> http://xs136.xs.to/xs136/09071/picture_1324.png
20:09:05 <ehird> I just drew a really long line and it turned into tha
20:09:35 <psygnisfive> what i mean by that is its not a sierpinski triangle.
20:09:36 <ehird> who cares, it came spontaneously from one really long line
20:09:40 <ehird> psygnisfive: yeah well
20:10:13 <psygnisfive> is that being generated by movement upwards?
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20:10:59 <ehird> ah, you know when you draw a long line in life
20:10:59 <psygnisfive> i mean, what did the time evolution look like
20:11:15 <lament> it really sounds like you're on acid, you realize
20:11:28 <ehird> well, yeah, wavering
20:12:13 <ehird> psygnisfive: http://xs536.xs.to/xs536/09071/picture_2491.png not all of it, but most of it
20:12:22 <ehird> http://xs536.xs.to/xs536/09071/picture_3360.png in progress
20:12:41 <oerjan> actually it _cannot_ have been a single long line because it's not symmetric enough
20:12:58 <ehird> psygnisfive: I have the .rle
20:13:10 <ehird> it's a game of life file
20:13:13 <ehird> use with golly or w/e
20:13:25 <psygnisfive> ah well. ill just run it in net logo, no worries
20:13:48 <ehird> except that isn;t the whole thing
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20:14:04 <ehird> whee, i reproduced it
20:14:11 <ehird> it seems you just have to make an imprecise line quite long
20:14:17 <ehird> and it collapses into that
20:14:22 -!- impomatic has joined.
20:14:34 <ehird> just made a huge line
20:14:37 <ehird> and it makes a huge pattern
20:14:43 <ehird> I swear it's sierpinski
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20:14:57 <ehird> it's fractal, at least, no question
20:15:56 <ehird> psygnisfive: it even builds it in a fractal way
20:16:05 <ehird> one huge line decays to lots of separate huge lines
20:16:12 <ehird> which keep reducing into more, leaving behind that pattern as a trail
20:17:13 <ehird> see the links above
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20:18:28 <ehird> the other half of the line becomes a mirror of the below
20:18:34 <ehird> the top one is chaotic
20:21:22 <ehird> psygnisfive: go to one pixel per square
20:21:26 <ehird> then click and drag down
20:21:28 <ehird> for about 15 seconds
20:21:45 <ehird> yeah, like 2,000 to 5,000 squares
20:22:01 <FireFly> What ruleset? Regular GoL?
20:22:25 <ehird> psygnisfive: just did it on a perfectly straight line 100 squares long
20:22:47 <lament> ehird: you have discovered a new field of mathematics! The Fields medal will surely be yours.
20:23:00 <ehird> lament: stfu, this is just fun.
20:23:34 <ehird> just make a long straight line and bam
20:23:56 <ehird> it's because the "noise" is actually long straight lines
20:24:07 <ehird> they duplicate themselves, then get less tall
20:24:15 <ehird> so it replicates doing that, until they destroy themselves by being 0 tall
20:25:30 <ehird> psygnisfive: so it IS a sierpinski triangle, you admit :P
20:25:46 <lament> that's nothing special! any fool could have done that!
20:27:27 <oerjan> there are people who don't manage to use computers, after all.
20:27:55 <ehird> how did you get a sierpinski.
20:28:07 -!- sebbu2 has joined.
20:28:17 <ehird> produce the same shape as mine :P
20:28:42 <ehird> neither are the perfectly straight lines
20:29:23 <psygnisfive> but i dont get the same randomness you get
20:29:57 <lament> if you have a double ended growth, consult a doctor asap
20:30:19 <ehird> psygnisfive: screenshot
20:39:43 <psygnisfive> http://wellnowwhat.net//transfers/Golly1.png
20:39:44 <psygnisfive> http://wellnowwhat.net//transfers/Golly2.png
20:40:30 <ehird> that totally does not happen to a straight line
20:40:43 <ehird> I know because I've tested
20:42:33 <psygnisfive> http://wellnowwhat.net//transfers/Sierpinski.rle
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20:43:06 <psygnisfive> stupid mac os with its inconsistent extension usage
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20:44:40 <oerjan> psygnisfive: you have a // too much
20:47:33 <psygnisfive> actually, he does the whole babyfur thing which is weird but whatever
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20:49:51 <impomatic> Do I need to figure out what currying is if I'm writing an Unlambda interpreter?
20:49:59 -!- CakeProphet has quit (Success).
20:50:03 <ais523> just to write an Unlambda program
20:50:08 <psygnisfive> impomatic: but why not learn what it is anyway?
20:50:15 <ais523> you may find s and k confusing to implement if you don't know what it is, though
20:50:24 <ais523> for instance, what is `si?
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20:50:48 <ehird> psygnisfive: you're right
20:50:52 <ehird> it produces a chaotic sierpinski with debris
20:51:09 <ehird> with a 1 million population it takes about 100 million iterations :D
20:51:11 <ehird> psygnisfive: just make it smaller
20:51:25 <ski__> the lower half of the picture doesn't look exactly like sierpinski, but related
20:51:33 <ehird> ski__: psygnisfive found a real sirpinski
20:51:37 <impomatic> I've just been through my bookshelf and pulled off all the books with a section on combinatorial calculus. Now I'm going to read through them
20:51:41 <ehird> psygnisfive: i love how it turns into a still life, yours
20:51:48 <oerjan> hm that's an actual surname :)
20:51:48 <ski__> ehird : "found" meaning ?
20:51:49 <ehird> so carefully placed little life cells
20:52:23 <oerjan> well at least psygnisfive isn't. i hope.
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20:52:32 <ski__> (psygnisfive : link ?)
20:52:56 <psygnisfive> theres some tombstone somewhere with a mr and ms lulz
20:53:23 <psygnisfive> obviously its close to schulz than lulls but.
20:53:24 * ski__ remembers writing sierpinski programs on his Casio ..
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20:54:24 <ski__> one nice way is starting with a pixel square with length a power of two
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20:54:39 <ski__> clear all the pixels
20:54:41 -!- AnMaster has joined.
20:54:45 <ski__> initialize the leftmost uppermost pixel to on
20:55:37 <ski__> then, for each subsequent line, turn on a pixel if and only if exactly one of the pixel just above, and the pixel left to the one just above is turned on
20:56:38 <ski__> (treating out-of-bounds access to the left of the first column as unset .. or initialize the first column, if preferred)
20:57:17 <psygnisfive> ehird, i still want to know where yours comes from
20:57:45 <ais523> ski__: a cellular automaton
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20:58:28 <ski__> yes .. aka modulo 2
20:58:38 <ski__> (possibly you could define this as an infinite stream of infinite streams, too)
20:58:50 <oerjan> also n over k modulo 2
20:58:57 <ski__> (one can try with modulo 3, et.c. too)
20:59:16 <oerjan> it's the modulo result of pascal's triangle
20:59:50 <oerjan> although i guess calculating n over k first is not efficient if you are going to calculate the whole square anyhow
21:00:18 <ski__> yes, it's better to do modular arithmetic the whole way
21:01:36 <ski__> i tried once with random-walks with affine transforms, too .. but for some reason i got a strange system of line fragments instead of sierpinski, though
21:02:04 <ski__> (or that might have been an attempt to generate van Kochs curve, now that i think of it)
21:02:36 <AnMaster_> what the hell happened a few minutes ago?
21:03:15 <oerjan> he was swedish, apparently
21:04:02 <ski__> that may be .. his first name was `Helge' in any case
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21:04:40 * ski__ kommer inte ihg att han lst att von Koch skulle vara svensk, dock
21:05:07 -!- impomatic has quit ("http://tr.im/xep :-)").
21:05:21 <ski__> ok. then it must be true
21:05:43 <oerjan> it actually lists some of his ancestors
21:06:00 <oerjan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Helge_von_Koch
21:06:28 * ski__ thinks `von Koch' sounds deutsch, though (or Niederlands, if it was `van')
21:07:06 <oerjan> but nobles always have pretentious names
21:08:00 <ski__> (.. hm, does `Koch' mean `cook' ?)
21:08:40 <oerjan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koch_(surname)
21:09:33 * ski__ feels too tired to use a browser himself, atm ..
21:09:52 <ski__> (been reading too much blogs today)
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22:46:24 <oerjan> but are they really dark, or just smudged?
22:49:36 <oerjan> i see you are not beating around the bush
22:49:54 * oerjan stole that from the forums, actually
22:50:48 <AnMaster> "I wondered if it could be a triffid?" <-- from forum. Wth is a "triffid"?
22:51:32 <oerjan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Day_of_the_Triffids
22:52:14 <ais523> AnMaster: walking plant in a famous fictional novel
22:53:00 <oerjan> it was playing as a series on the radio when my dad built his new house in the 80's. since then i think of them every time i smell sawdust...
22:53:08 <lament> the novel isn't fictional
22:53:16 <ais523> well, it describes fictional events
22:53:25 <ais523> the novel itself exists, ofc
22:54:30 <AnMaster> I see I have watched way too much Star Trek... I thought of "tribbles" first...
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23:01:31 <AnMaster> fun "Wait a second, those bubbles are green? They're the same color as the rest of the site, cyan-ish."
23:01:39 <GregorR> After carrying 108lbs of Moxie 800ft, nothing is more refreshing than a crisp, delicious Moxie :P
23:01:47 <AnMaster> either broken colour, or someone just finding out he/she is colour blind
23:02:39 <oerjan> GregorR: i guess some kinds of work are _nearly_ their own reward
23:03:00 <AnMaster> GreaseMonkey, 108lbs? what is that in metric units?
23:03:05 <oerjan> AnMaster: i wondered about that comment too...
23:03:43 <AnMaster> oerjan, sqrt(-garfied) was rather boring today
23:03:58 <AnMaster> oh and I need to find an abbreviation for it
23:05:19 <AnMaster> ehird, you are the unicode expert of the channel!
23:05:40 <ehird> My only offer is a Unicode snowman. ☃
23:06:02 <oerjan> if so i have no idea how i would write it on irc
23:06:31 <oerjan> you and your funny question marks
23:06:42 <kerlo> That's not a Unicode snowman, that's fuzz followed by inverse-colored XC.
23:06:53 <kerlo> I guess my IRC client is really, really unhappy.
23:07:09 <AnMaster> both you and oerjan need to fix your clients
23:07:36 <oerjan> i just go to the logs when i want to see unicode
23:07:38 <kerlo> Well, this is irssi via screen via PuTTY.
23:07:51 <oerjan> kerlo: same here, except for the screen
23:07:58 <ehird> http://unicodesnowmanforyou.com/
23:08:04 <ehird> In glorious 4000% font size.
23:08:09 <kerlo> It works for many Unicode things, but not all.
23:08:33 <ehird> I wish http://idunnolol.com/ was free so I could put a huge ¯\(°_o)/¯ on it
23:09:04 <AnMaster> who on earth registers a domain like http://unicodesnowmanforyou.com/ just for that...l
23:09:20 <ehird> domains are like $5/year
23:09:34 <ehird> setting up unicodesnowmanforyou.com probably took like 15 minutes, total
23:09:37 <ehird> plus it's amusing.
23:09:57 <ehird> i wonder what commitee meeting ended up with that being in unicode
23:10:00 <AnMaster> but I have seen way more expensive domains too
23:10:01 <ehird> probably was in some older charset
23:10:16 <ehird> i bet font makers have fun
23:10:22 <AnMaster> and it was probably snowing outside?
23:10:23 <ehird> after drawing 5 bajillion boring characters
23:10:40 <ehird> I bet it has its own area
23:10:50 <ehird> category should be SNOWMEN.
23:11:00 <kerlo> AnMaster: aao, ring umlaut umlaut.
23:11:10 <kerlo> If that sounds about right, it displayed correctly.
23:11:15 <ehird> wow, http://☃.com/ is actually squatted
23:11:18 <ehird> that's (snowman).com
23:11:48 <ehird> I should get ☃.org
23:11:58 <ehird> "Email elliott at snowman dot org"
23:12:09 <ehird> is unicodesnowmanforyou.com
23:12:12 <AnMaster> ehird, except do you get snowman.org too?
23:12:34 <AnMaster> ehird, iirc you get aao variants for åäö for *.se
23:12:41 <ehird> ooh, ooh, maybe I'll buy (unicode symbol for _|_).com
23:12:44 <ehird> it will load forever
23:12:58 <AnMaster> ehird, what is the unicode symbol for_|_?
23:12:58 <ehird> (_|_ = bottom = "undefined" = infinite loop in functional language terminology)
23:13:13 <ehird> AnMaster: well, it's a horizontal line with a vertical line sticking from the middle
23:13:19 <AnMaster> ehird, it looks like a rude sign?
23:13:24 <AnMaster> I doubt that exists in unicode
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23:13:26 <ehird> it looks like a penis and an upside down T.
23:13:39 <AnMaster> ehird, it looks like a rude sign with a finger
23:16:08 <AnMaster> what a pitty klingon got rejected
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23:52:06 <ehird> lol "Announcement: AI Has Been Solved " http://www.advogato.org/article/832.html http://mind.sourceforge.net/mind4th.html
23:52:33 <pikhq> What, for Unicode? That was because of a lack of works in it.
23:54:25 <pikhq> Will probably be reconsidered, what with such works as /ghIlghameS/ and /The Tragedy of Khamelet, Son of the Emperor of Qo'nos/.
23:54:34 <ehird> "http://mind.sourceforge.net/mind4th.html achieved True AI functionality on 22 January 2008. "
23:56:49 <oerjan> hm the haskell underload interpreter in http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/7vypk/implementation_of_underload_an_esoteric/ is broken, doesn't handle nested parentheses
23:57:16 * oerjan mentions in case someone who actually has a reddit account wants to point it out
23:57:27 <ehird> most people who try and do esolangs are idiots
23:57:40 <oerjan> oh but it is close otherwise
23:57:51 <ehird> underload is trivial