< 1237248106 0 :mib_p3zdz9st!i=4b3ab5d8@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-456480a90db8d03a JOIN :#esoteric < 1237248258 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :«00:00:00»     « Day changed to {Tuesday, March 17th 2009}. It's St. Patrick's day, time to get some booze! < 1237248274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of shitty irc client does that < 1237248278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't answer, I know: a shit one < 1237248316 0 :mib_p3zdz9st!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoteric programming? < 1237248333 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, even if it does not always look like it. < 1237248339 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn tootin < 1237248439 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ehm... 12th of july: "Beware of Santa Claus!" < 1237248452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut < 1237248501 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the day change messages < 1237248702 0 :mib_p3zdz9st!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any engine techs here? < 1237248735 0 :mib_p3zdz9st!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having an idle issue with my 3.1mpfi < 1237249353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:22 ImInYourMonad: ehird: because i can understand things that are not formal systems? < 1237249359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In response to me asking why he thinks his brain is superturing. < 1237249363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol lol lol < 1237249473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:24 ImInYourMonad: well maybe consciousness is an illusion, but i can build a computer but a computer cant build me unless a human tells it how to < 1237249479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ lol < 1237249735 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd love to know what things are not formal systems that he can understand. lol < 1237249831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: EMOTIONS & PURE LOVE < 1237249836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :&&&& THE FEELING OF MUSIC < 1237249840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :&&&& HUMANITY < 1237249844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION vomits
< 1237249846 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would point out that he undoubtedly doesnt understand any of those < 1237249850 0 :comexk!n=comex@teklinks.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1237249854 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor does he have proof that they're not formal systems. < 1237249856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1237249875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It irritates me when channels go over primordial stupids about AI. < 1237249882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE'VE THOUGHT OF IT ALL BEFORE, GODDAMMIT < 1237249886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're almost certainly wrong :P < 1237249886 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infact, the idea that anything can be non-formal < 1237249892 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its basically a dualist view < 1237249903 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :material world + spiritual component < 1237249913 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats the only possible view that can even potentially admit such things < 1237249927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1237249932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people just think they're special. < 1237249945 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but even then, you have to wonder how a spirit world would work if not by being based on the nature of the things involved < 1237249953 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh they ARE special ehird < 1237249955 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very special < 1237249978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in retarded? < 1237249981 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1237250025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: they're not that retarded though. some people believe in God. < 1237250041 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's even worse. < 1237250048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was my implication < 1237250055 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1237250073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :butts < 1237250078 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::d < 1237250083 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::))))))))))) < 1237250091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive is so easy to please < 1237250092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just say butts < 1237250095 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::d < 1237250097 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe in butts < 1237250104 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1237250107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :butt butt butt butt < 1237250125 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::d :d :d :d < 1237250130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::d < 1237250137 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey i think i see a pattern :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD < 1237250142 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pruit igoe < 1237250183 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i see a butt < 1237250197 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pruit < 1237250198 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :igoe < 1237250227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% grep no-link-chk **/* < 1237250227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zsh: argument list too long: grep < 1237250228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu < 1237250230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: lbreakout2 <-- it exists for OS X too? ok < 1237250233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: SDL < 1237250303 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@65.183.185.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1237250433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mgm < 1237250434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm* < 1237253318 0 :mib_p3zdz9st!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ROOTS BLOODY ROOTS < 1237255020 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1237255935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things I Never Want To Here Again, #475: < 1237255938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Hear < 1237255939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:11 comexk: also, ehird: what if I have a struct with 5000000 fields < 1237256003 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are talking to a database and are getting a row from a table < 1237256006 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely that's a reasonable use case < 1237256020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5000000. fields. < 1237256024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weren't you going to bed < 1237256027 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1237256029 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1237256041 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I was merely imitating your use of very large numbers < 1237256041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1237256043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1237256044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1237256048 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was referring to more like 10 fields < 1237261029 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1237261334 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/CHIQRSX9_Plus < 1237261343 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does X make the language turing-complete? < 1237261428 0 :mib_p3zdz9st!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :58 days until Frank Sinatra Day < 1237261431 0 :mib_p3zdz9st!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1237261660 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lulz. < 1237261667 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X doesnt, really. < 1237261829 0 :mib_p3zdz9st!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1237262005 0 :MizardX-!i=MizardX@92.254.128.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1237262295 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1237262298 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@92.254.128.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1237262383 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1237262589 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1237262692 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1237262727 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-127-9.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1237264564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1237264577 0 :ehird!n=ehird@208.78.103.223 JOIN :#esoteric < 1237264669 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1237264669 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1237264669 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1237264669 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1237264669 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1237264718 0 :ineiros!n=ineiros@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1237264718 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-37-207.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1237264718 0 :kerlo!n=ihope@normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1237264718 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1237264718 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1237265451 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1237265453 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1237265456 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1237265456 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1237265456 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1237265456 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1237265456 0 :psygnisfive!n=psygnisf@c-71-57-164-119.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1237265482 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1237265482 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1237265482 0 :kerlo!n=ihope@normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1237265482 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-37-207.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1237265482 0 :ineiros!n=ineiros@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1237265709 0 :MizardX-!i=MizardX@92.254.128.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1237265883 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1237265888 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1237266318 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer) < 1237266327 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@92.254.128.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1237268249 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1237269422 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1237270038 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1237270804 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (For guidance on the above sentence, see oerjan.) < 1237270820 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not nice to ping me from a completely unknown nick. < 1237270834 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that it was unexpected who it really was. < 1237270847 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@92.254.128.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1237270871 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats ehird to make the point clear -----###
< 1237271004 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : qhqrdghqst, so is it a long or a short t in motif? < 1237271015 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't think english had long consonants < 1237271036 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what they call long vowels aren't really either < 1237271040 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iiuc < 1237271087 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(being diphthongs) < 1237271145 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : how does X make the language turing-complete? < 1237271159 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by turning it into a rotation of perl, iirc < 1237271172 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least in my implementation) < 1237271268 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get it < 1237271327 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's a joke, obviously < 1237271363 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X makes the rest of the program being interpreted as a TC language. < 1237271376 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is a _random_ TC language, so that it is still useless. < 1237271390 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*be < 1237271809 0 :MizardX-!i=MizardX@92.254.128.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1237271973 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer) < 1237272011 0 :MizardX-!i=MizardX@92.254.128.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1237272091 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1237272099 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1237272422 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1237272573 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-44-150.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1237272624 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-44-150.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1237273312 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1237275236 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1237276799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1237276800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1237278988 0 :neldoreth!n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth JOIN :#esoteric < 1237279809 0 :tombom!i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1237280569 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-29-148.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1237280612 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: isn't "beep" a long vowel? < 1237281072 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wiktionary's english pronunciation key has four cases of "x:" IPA markup, which would sound long-wovelish: the ɑː part in father, the iː part in ease, see (and presumably beep), the ɔː part in law, caught, saw and uː in lose, soon. Oh, and a ɜː(ɹ) construction in fur, bird. < 1237281144 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think of an example where the just different vowel lengths would have different meanings. We (Finnish) do that all the time. < 1237281153 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/the just/just the/ < 1237281238 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1237281347 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they often have different meanings, it's just the vowel changes when it's lengthened < 1237282537 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :english has no vowel length contrast < 1237282547 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no true contrast, anyway < 1237282660 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can analyze /i:/ and /I/ as contrasting length, but they differ greatly in quality < 1237282684 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and often phonetically the length isnt different at all < 1237283619 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Quit: Quit: Quit: Quit: Quit: Quit: Quit: Quit: Quit: Quit" < 1237285109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION ponders the Swedish "sil" and "sill". They mean very different things
< 1237285126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and vowel length is the only difference < 1237285192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sil ~ sieve, sill is a type of fish, don't remember the English name for it. < 1237285491 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finnish "taka", "takka", "taakka" and "takaa" all have very different meanings. ("taka" ~ back, used in compound words, "takka" is a fireplace, "taakka" ~ burden, and "takaa" is the third-person-singular form of the verb assure, although it's also approximately "from behind" too.) < 1237285510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, assure from behind? < 1237285637 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be "takaa takaa", although it doesn't really make sense. Usually the object being assured would be rather close to the "takaa"-used-as-verb. I can't really invent a non-artificial-sounding sentece which would have those two words consecutively like that. < 1237285672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it sounds rather strange that a single word has two so different meanings... < 1237285688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and with the same spelling < 1237285716 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One is an adverb, the other is a verb, so it's usually rather easy to interpret from context which one it is. < 1237285740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but why have they ended up the same? < 1237285756 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's only that particular third-person-singular case of the verb, anyway. The infinitive ("to assure") is "taata". < 1237285820 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assure ~ min� takaan, you assure ~ sin� takaat, he/she assures ~ h�n takaa, we assure ~ me takaamme, you assure (plural) ~ te takaatte, they assure ~ he takaavat. < 1237285860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so what is the etymology(sp?) < 1237285895 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No clue, but I assume most of our multiple-meanings words are because of the metric assload of noun cases we have. < 1237285912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, "noun cases"? < 1237285937 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_language_noun_cases < 1237285955 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goes with the "not a lot of prepositions" thing. < 1237285959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh sorry, got to rush, I'm late... < 1237285960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk < 1237286001 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No worries, it's not like it makes any sense; it's a natural language, after all. < 1237287105 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: In most cases if you ask about the etymology of a Finnish word you'll get either 'nobody knows' or 'proto-Finno-Ugric' both of which mean essentially that it's been like that forever and nobody knows why. < 1237287238 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wiktionary's Etymology for "taata" is "From earlier *takata", which isn't very informative. < 1237288260 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is the official support always so useless? I have this NAS box with two SATA slots, and two 750 GB disks full of stuff in a RAID-1 setup in a computer, and would like to migrate them to the NAS box so they can noisily hum in a different room. Official answer as to how to do it without backing up all those gigabytes to somewhere elsewhere: < 1237288299 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This cannot be done cause the filesystem in the NSA-220. This needs to be set up in the NSA and you cant import a disc with content on it. So you need to move the files to another HDD and then import the files that you want." < 1237288320 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=BeholdMy@smartskola.botkyrka.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1237288412 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn, I thought djinn and jean would be a long-wovel-distinction example but they're /dʒɪn/ and /dʒiːn/ < 1237288460 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I asked if their web-configurator is flexible enough so that I could configure one of those disks as a degraded RAID-1 thing, but they ignored that completely. I also asked for details on how the box sets up disks and filesystems, so I could prepare the disk in advance (the box is linux-based and does not use any proprietary file systems or anything), but they also ignored that completely. < 1237288485 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just "this cannot be done cause the filesystem". Right. < 1237288646 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I could reliably distinguish ɪ and i. < 1237288695 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they're somewhat interchangeable in Finnish. < 1237288719 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyhoo, the latter is 'sharper' if you can understand that < 1237288737 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where you open your mouth really wide < 1237288806 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I can pronounce 'niin' either way, for instance, and neither really sounds wrong < 1237288924 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be I'm just doing it wrong, alternatively. :-P < 1237288928 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood < 1237288949 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=BeholdMy@smartskola.botkyrka.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1237288951 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1237289002 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some phonology-related thing our Swedish teacher gripes about constantly, and I think it's another case of pretty-much-equivalent-in-Finnish pair. < 1237289131 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was related to ø/ɵ-like sounds. < 1237289169 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even the symbols look pretty similar. :p < 1237289348 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and the Russian ɨ, that was another difficult one. < 1237291814 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1237291820 0 :neldoreth!n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth JOIN :#esoteric < 1237292376 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1237292394 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1237296524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, heh ok < 1237296625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, to me djinn and jean sound quite different...? < 1237296680 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<0lö.- < 1237296789 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :× AnMaster ponders the Swedish "sil" and "sill". They mean very different things ||| AnMaster: and vowel length is the only difference <<< a swedish guy once told me the long ones are different from the short ones < 1237296808 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ofc you probably wouldn't know that from just speaking it natively) < 1237296815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1237296837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :double consonant in Swedish means the vowel directly in front is shorter < 1237296840 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that swedish has different vowels for short and long versions. < 1237296861 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, and a different vowel, according to a swedish person on #random_channel < 1237296877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw in English I find the difference between joke/yoke/yolk hard. I mean to me they sound almost the same < 1237296884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mean,* < 1237296907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, hm maybe, we usually call them long/short versions though < 1237296918 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :joke and yoke have nothing to do with each other < 1237296920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe IPA thinks it is a different one < 1237296959 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "y" there is like swedish "jag", the "j" is a french version of the usual "ch" sound < 1237296966 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure whether that exists in swedish < 1237296971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1237296983 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i think yolk is equal to yoke < 1237296995 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what was unclear? < 1237297014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, they yoke and joke sound the same to me < 1237297032 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The word "tjock" has a vaguely joke-'j'-like sound, I think. Although my Swedish is very rusty. < 1237297040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/they// < 1237297043 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: they can't sound the same to you, sorry. < 1237297052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, ? < 1237297082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm. That would depend on dialect. Like "tjoke"? < 1237297095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like "djoke" someone said iirc < 1237297123 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: swedish has the consonant that starts "yoke", i'm not sure it has the one in "joke", but it's just a voiced "ch", which you should have. < 1237297151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION wonders why the faviconfor wikitionary looks like random garbage in one tab...
< 1237297158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :favicon for* < 1237297184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm reloading it fixed it < 1237297192 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: also i checked the yoke/yolk thing at one source, and they seem to be the same. < 1237297207 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you probably shouldn't be able to distinguish between them < 1237297210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/yolk lists too ways to pronounce it < 1237297238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UK/US < 1237297245 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you definitely should recognize joke/yolk < 1237297300 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you pronounce "joke" like you would in swedish ofc < 1237297323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, and that I can't really hear the difference... < 1237297393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/that// < 1237297450 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. confusing "ch" and "j" is a common mistake for finns, but we don't have either of those really. and i'm pretty sure you have all the consonants necessary to distinguish between joke and yoke. < 1237297531 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean it's still not acceptable not to know the difference ofc, but at least i can believe it could happen. < 1237297553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, it is the difference in the j/y sound there that is hard + I'm pretty sure it isn't at all like "tjock" as fizzie suggested. At least not the way "tjock" is pronounced in these parts of the country... < 1237297576 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to agree that the difference between /j/ and /dʒ/ (which is what "yoke" and "joke" start with, according to OED) should be rather noticeable, given that the first one isn't even a fricative ("shshsh"-like sound) at all. < 1237297603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, we don't have "fricative" sounds in Swedish though < 1237297609 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, you do. < 1237297609 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1237297615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, not for j at least? < 1237297622 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION suddenly symphatizes with ehird
< 1237297626 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example ɕ, as in kjol "skirt". < 1237297659 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION cannot accept someone knowing less phonetics than the little that he does
< 1237297661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm, "fricative" is what we in Swedish call "tonande ljud" right? < 1237297698 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know Swedish, but that sounds like "voiced sound", which is a very different thing. < 1237297704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1237297723 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and swedish has voiced sounds < 1237297737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, then what is "fricative" in Swedish? I don't have a dictionary around here atm... < 1237297805 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: isn't the "y" kinda fricative? i mean you're basically narrowing the passage of air in the vowel "e", which is afaik the definition of fricative < 1237297817 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i know it isn't actually a fricative, but i don't think it's that far away < 1237297841 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, your fricatives (according to wikipedia) are f (as in 'fot' - foot), s (as in 'sot' - soot), ɕ (as in 'kjol' - skirt) and ɧ (as in 'sjok' - chunk). < 1237297889 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: I think you need to get some serious turbulence in your airflow before you can call it a fricative. < 1237297948 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any shushy-type sound probably qualifies. But Swedish doesn't seem to have any voiced fricatives. Maybe. I know so little about these things that any attempt at sensible discussion is pretty much doomed to failure. < 1237297955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to find the common pattern in those sounds
< 1237297958 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i can pronounce it as a fricative, getting an "h" type of sound < 1237297970 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i guess it's not very fricative < 1237298011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah hm I think I see < 1237298012 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yeah but this is not about sensible discussion, it's about being annoyed about AnMaster not knowing english! or maybe it's just me. < 1237298043 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway there was this game idea i had, any nice name ideas? < 1237298046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well Swedish doesn't have /dʒ/ afaik. If we do, where? < 1237298101 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you do; but personally I find even the "fricative/not" difference between j in yoke and dʒ in joke very discernible. < 1237298126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you have those sounds in fi? < 1237298142 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but like you, we have the "y" < 1237298169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that isn't an issue. The issue is that /dʒ/ sound the same! < 1237298230 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have precious few sounds here. Especially as far as fricatives go, we just have f and s, unless you start counting non-native words. < 1237298232 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually just the fact there's a "d" before the voiced "sh" should be enough of a difference < 1237298247 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you could argue we don't really have f < 1237298281 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, officially speaking it should be *we* who should be complaining about the joke/yoke thing, since: < 1237298283 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"[f] appears in native words only in the Southwestern dialects, but is reliably distinguished by Finnish speakers. The rest of the foreign fricatives are not. 'š' or 'sh' [ʃ] appears only in non-native words, often pronounced 's', although some educated speakers make a distinction between e.g. šakki 'chess' and sakki 'a gang (of people)'. The orthography also includes the letters 'z' [z] and 'ž' or 'zh' [ʒ], although their use is marginal, and they have < 1237298283 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no true phonemic status. For example, azeri and džonkki may be pronounced aseri and tsonkki without fear of confusion." < 1237298339 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to that, we can barely distinguish s and f. < 1237298366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/f is easy for me < 1237298377 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again the finnish recommendation is to pronounce all loan words as originally spoken, which i don't think all languages enforce < 1237298388 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: kind of a useless comment < 1237298394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, yes < 1237298401 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that was your point < 1237298417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well partly < 1237298421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well,* < 1237298598 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, I blame this fricative-poorness for the fact that learning Russian pronunciation was so difficult; they've got something like seven s-style characters: с, ц, ч, ш, щ, х and ж. < 1237298621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1237298681 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially the ш, щ difference was something really silly. Wikipedia explains the first as "sh in shut (voiceless retroflex fricative)" and the second as "similar to the "sh" in sheer (but with a slightly more "y" sound) < 1237298681 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sometimes followed by < 1237298681 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a sound similar to the "ch" in chip (closer to a "y" and "ch" sound at the same time) such as the phrase "Welsh cheese") (voiceless alveolo-palatal fricative)" < 1237298745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, isn't the sh in shut and sheer the same? < 1237298762 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To me it is. But note that it's "with a slightly more 'y' sound". < 1237298784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, sh with y? I can't even imagine a mix of them < 1237298857 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just sounded (in the samples we listened to) "sharper" in an unidentifiably vague way, to me. < 1237299060 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually that щ, being the voiceless alveolo-palatal fricative, should be pronounced pretty much exactly like your word 'kjol'. So that's what it sounds like. Now you just need to imagine the same thing but "with a slightly less 'y' sound" to understand ш. < 1237299371 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know about the "more 'y' sound" thing, but the sh's sound different to me because of the following vowel < 1237299458 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but dunno. < 1237299611 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and then Russian has the ы character, pronounced /ɨ/, which we completely lack; that sounded pretty strange too. It's almost midway between very "normal" i and u. (Swedish example words: is 'ice', bot 'penance' -- apparently you only have our "u" vowel as a long one, the short variant is a bit different.) < 1237299646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1237299655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is u in bot? < 1237299671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you call the o sound "u" suddenly? < 1237299678 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because he's talking to me < 1237299694 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and explained what he meant by swedish examples so you'd understand too < 1237299744 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also the finnish vowels are better as universal vowels, since they are unambiguous, unlike yours) < 1237299748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm so it is between a long "i" and a long "o"? < 1237299768 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently. < 1237299782 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't say i see how that would go, but i suck at vowels < 1237299798 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are mostly just a big mess to me < 1237299839 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, and according to ickypedia it's also found in Swedish: in the word bi ('bee') "in dialects in Närke and Bohuslän and in sociolects in Stockholm and Gothenburg". < 1237299872 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sociolect is a funny term. < 1237299887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah that iiiii < 1237299911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, The i in Närke is different from the i in Bohuslän < 1237299923 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, i may know it too, but would have to hear it < 1237299926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you need to be from either Närke or Bohuslän to hear the difference. Most Swedes don't < 1237299934 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: I think someone compared it to a drunk man speaking. < 1237299939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION speaks with a slight hint of närkinska
< 1237299959 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: then it's probably what i'm thinkin of < 1237299961 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*g < 1237299984 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should take those phonetics lessons from psygnisfive at some point < 1237300044 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure he'd be more than happy to give you some "lessons", yes. < 1237300063 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;;;;) < 1237300074 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that wasn't very funny < 1237300118 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with actual linguistics i wouldn't be as afraid, since he's probably more interested in that than sex < 1237300129 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't think he's that interested in phonetics < 1237300132 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"grep -i 'psygnisfive' * | grep -i oklopol" was funny reading. < 1237300144 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1237300145 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :paste < 1237300201 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/private/dbfuik4fr6bshmy0r4kf9a is a very short snippet. < 1237300210 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He just sounds so excited in that, is all. < 1237300243 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love the beginning < 1237300259 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"look at me oklopol!" < 1237300310 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm actually doing esolang related stuff atm btw :o < 1237300330 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally my life is back on track < 1237300398 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, that reminds me, I have a seminar course presentation tomorrow, I should be doing some slides for it. And there's a "design some homework for the other students" thing too. < 1237300412 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm not sure why it reminds me; the seminar is not esolang-related.) < 1237300487 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"design some homework for the other students" <<< like on a course? < 1237300510 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we once had "make a question to be put on the exam" in high school < 1237300537 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. It's this seminar course; every presentationer has to do a "does not take more than 30 minutes to answer" homework assignment, present it to the other students, and grade them. < 1237300564 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come to think of it, I should also actually *do* the last guy's homework thing. < 1237300566 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so O(n) homework < 1237300583 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully it's not a big seminar < 1237300593 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not; there's something like 14-16 of us. < 1237300623 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12, actually. < 1237300649 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seminar about what? can you somehow integrate a stack language for creating fractals in the exercise? < 1237300671 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I can, as it's about noise-robust speech recognition. < 1237300764 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I mentioned, but my conference paper (vaguely on the same topics) was accepted to this SPECOM conference (in St. Petersburg this summer), so now I'll get a published paper. I feel like a real science-man! (Or, as we in the business call it, a scientsist.) < 1237300783 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, you're practically famous! < 1237300807 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does lead to a well-defined Erdös number, but that's about it as far as benefits go. < 1237300869 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what would that number be (in value)? < 1237300899 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A six, through the co-author path: fizzie - Kurimo, Mikko - Oja, Erkki - Cooper, Leon N. - Zeitouni, Ofer - Diaconis, Persi W. - Erdös, Paul. < 1237300918 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not verified that this is the shortest path, so 6 is more of an upper bound really. < 1237300943 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1237300958 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a good database of who's worked with whom? < 1237301005 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the MathSciNet database of math-related papers. < 1237301031 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ams.org/mathscinet/collaborationDistance.html if you happen to be in a network of a subscribing institution. < 1237301053 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not < 1237301058 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a "Use Erdös" button directly next to the "another author" text field, so it's pretty obvious what it is for. < 1237301080 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1237301089 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's only math stuff, so I had to do some creative guessing to find the beginning of that path. < 1237301143 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION looked up oerjan
< 1237301148 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he beat you. < 1237301156 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very likely. < 1237301169 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 is not an especially low number. < 1237301383 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should be an ő there in Erdős instead of ö, but I didn't bother figuring out how to get that character here. < 1237301614 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ended up both doing it wrong *and* figuring it out < 1237301709 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had it written correctly in earlier irclogs, so when I grepped for that value, I got a copy-pasteable ő for free. < 1237305010 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1237305187 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: djinn and jean sound almost the same, the difference is only in the vowel sound < 1237305244 0 :Hiato!n=1@dsl-245-1-23.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1237305281 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've heard you speak perfect english, Deewiant, is this true < 1237305300 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course < 1237305320 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm that's nice < 1237305493 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard that you are also in all other senses the singular example of perfection in this world, Deewiant; is this true too? < 1237305504 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course < 1237305525 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey! i really did hear that :P < 1237305569 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you will never know where < 1237305583 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mwahahah < 1237305585 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION leaves
< 1237305912 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the gu < 1237306013 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid enter key... the hungarians translate the english 'j' as dzs, so the djin/jean thing makes sense to me < 1237306040 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, an alternative spelling for 'djinn' is 'jinn' :-P < 1237306046 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who put return next to backspace, and are they alive so I can stab them? < 1237306046 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Gungans. < 1237306066 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just move backspace elsewhere if it bothers you < 1237306085 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On certain laptop keyboards, it's easy to hit enter instead of ' when doing contractions. < 1237306205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well yes, but that is a rather large difference < 1237306241 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, I never claimed that they're supposed to sound the same, the whole point was that they'd differ in the length of the vowel only < 1237306247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1237306254 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that was a failed example because they differ in the vowel itself, not only its length < 1237309966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah yes < 1237311506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:34:37 btw in English I find the difference between joke/yoke/yolk hard. I mean to me they sound almost the same < 1237311513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm, that's a pet peeve of mine… < 1237311521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, eh? < 1237311521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yolk/yoke I can understand < 1237311526 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1237311527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in english y and j are very separat < 1237311527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1237311539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j is sorta like... dg < 1237311542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well it is hard if you don't have one of the sounds in your own language < 1237311546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1237311569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and Swedish doesn't have /dʒ/ < 1237311589 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: But you've got /tʃ/, no? < 1237311599 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, maybe you don't actually < 1237311601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, *looks up what that one is* < 1237311612 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swedish is such a soft language :-P < 1237311618 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do, and the "d" is audible too, and they have "d" < 1237311619 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you don't have that < 1237311622 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1237311636 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't actually see that character correctly < 1237311643 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so may be wrong yes < 1237311668 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxwrVw6Vsjw < 1237311690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, as "ch" in "chip" according to wikipedia? We have it in non-native words. Such as "chips" (the food stuff) < 1237311693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: My attempt to say yolk and joke as clearly as possible: http://filebin.ca/bxjget/yolkyjokey.ogg < 1237311698 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yep < 1237311701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :May help :P. (May amuse others.) < 1237311707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, though most people say it a bit differently in Swedish < 1237311718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like "schips" < 1237311720 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, I'd expect so < 1237311721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you see what I mean < 1237311728 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's not a Swedish sound. < 1237311731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1237311748 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the "tjock" sound? < 1237311800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well there is a very slight difference that i heard the second time I listened to it. However some of the times I'm not sure which you said. < 1237311803 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plain /tjok/ or something, I think < 1237311810 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohh. < 1237311816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Wow. Swedish ears are broken :P < 1237311823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have a transcript: < 1237311823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, depends a bit on dialect < 1237311858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think) < 1237311863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yolk, yolk, joke, joke, joke, joke, blah blah blah joke, joke, joke, JOKE, yolk, yolk, YOLK < 1237311879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe sociolect (spelling?) < 1237311909 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That JOKE sounded like CHOKE to me < 1237311917 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too aspirated < 1237311920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yeah I was trying to emphasize the J < 1237311923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't work too well < 1237312076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I doubt you could hear the difference between the various dialectal "i" variations in Sweden. Especially between Närkinska and Bohuslänska, I even know a lot of Swedes that think they are the same (they are not). Alas I can't record it to help you compare since I can't speak Bohusländska. < 1237312089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt so too < 1237312093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though I can manage Närkinska like a native) < 1237312097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck, I have troubles with ü. < 1237312109 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ü? < 1237312110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, as in "uber"? < 1237312118 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, /y/. < 1237312124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is y-ish < 1237312127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, I can handle that. But a lot of occurances are hard to make out for me. < 1237312127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very easy for me < 1237312142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't even know German. I took French classes instead! < 1237312159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shi shi shi shi, shi shi shi, shi shi shi shi shi < 1237312160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, Swedish has that sound. Though we spell it using "y" < 1237312165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a very common sound though < 1237312175 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not quite the same actually < 1237312177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For the person who lives under a rock: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion-Eating_Poet_in_the_Stone_Den) < 1237312177 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "shi"'s shouldn't be too hard to distinguish < 1237312180 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought they sounded a bit different < 1237312189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh? They are very close though < 1237312202 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless there are phonetic differences on top of the tones) < 1237312228 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and i don't think there are) < 1237312236 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or hmm, I'm not sure, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_phonology isn't explicit about which vowel maps to which letter < 1237312255 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyhoo, Swedish y is /ʏ/ and Finnish y is /y/ < 1237312267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw I know someone from Germany who lived in Sweden since the 1950s or so and still have troubles with the Swedish word "sju" (seven) < 1237312271 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_phonology says German ü is /y/ but I'm not sure I agree < 1237312283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know what the IPA is for it < 1237312304 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: /ɧʏ/ I think < 1237312319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that looks like a blur in this font. < 1237312328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :James while John had^N a better effect on the teacher. < 1237312332 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_palatal-velar_fricative - took me a few months to learn this one to an acceptable level when I first learned Swedish < 1237312335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/N/n/ < 1237312348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh that is easy < 1237312349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me < 1237312350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1237312365 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1237312371 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yeah, you've used it daily for 20 years :-P < 1237312420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what I remember was a problem is that it can be spelled in lots of way. That was a major problem when I was around 6 or 7 or so < 1237312442 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: is that the "sju" sound? < 1237312444 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sj? Can it? < 1237312450 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: I'm fairly sure it is < 1237312454 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1237312465 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i know it well enough to fool most finns, probably not swedes tho < 1237312467 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, it is, the other one I thought it was is the same one < 1237312476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanna learn < 1237312478 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: Yeah, I guess I'm that way too < 1237312479 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again many finns don't know it exists. < 1237312479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITHKUIL PRONOUNCIATION < 1237312487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then KILL MYSELF out of HORROR < 1237312493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1237312508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that page you linked said "sje-sound" < 1237312510 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Start with Czech < 1237312517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure that is the one in sju? < 1237312563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it the one in "stjärna" or "tjära"? < 1237312566 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: e.g. sjok < 1237312586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what is the sound in stjärna and tjära called then? < 1237312604 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think that's two sounds < 1237312613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, "stj"? < 1237312614 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...yeah < 1237312633 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, the "tj" part < 1237312644 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I mean, the "s" is obviously separate :-P < 1237312645 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's two different sounds? < 1237312648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1237312670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION considers.
< 1237312682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a language based on the lambda calculus and horn clauses or something. < 1237312683 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ɕ is the sound at the start of "kjol" < 1237312690 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's a bit different IMO? < 1237312700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok they are slightly different yes, but rather close < 1237312709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, it's all anonymous horn clauses. < 1237312716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Natural laanguge. < 1237312717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is. < 1237312718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conlang. < 1237312724 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the kind of tj in tjära < 1237312741 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The kj in kjol < 1237312745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just don't mix up tjära with kära! < 1237312754 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1237312773 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's easy, they're very different :-P < 1237312773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean it could be awfully embarrassing < 1237312791 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Jag har min kära i burken där" < 1237312804 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1237312804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, actually no. Or it depends on dialect. There is a difference yes. But not that large. < 1237312812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, hehe < 1237312827 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, to me it's an obvious difference. < 1237312847 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's like the difference between 'j' and 'ch'. (Or 'j' and 'y'? :-P) < 1237312873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, tch and k? < 1237312874 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's "tjära" pronounced? < 1237312906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it is rather easy to say something in the middle that could be interpreted as either < 1237312939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, from what I heard of "finlandssvenska" the difference is way larger in that < 1237312962 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yeah, because Finns can't pronounce stuff correctly. :-P < 1237312963 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finlandssvenska is an unlanguage < 1237312976 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like unlambda < 1237312980 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be that I'm still thinking of 'tjära' incorrectly. < 1237312982 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, exactly < 1237313022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I remember some animated movies based on Tove Janson's books that I watched when I was small. They spoke "finlandssvenska" there. And there the difference was much larger yes < 1237313075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, btw can you hear a difference between the "i" sound in Närkinska and the "i" sound in Bohusländska? < 1237313080 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see why any finnish person would want to learn finlandssvenska, maybe we should have finlandsenglish too and just accept the fact people don't like to learn languages well < 1237313100 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is no good at dialects :
< 1237313105 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION is no good at dialects :/
< 1237313109 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh < 1237313113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1237313113 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh < 1237313118 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[18:05:03] [KVS] Warning: Stray backslash at the end of the script < 1237313129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, "KVS"? < 1237313140 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KVIrc < 1237313148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard of it before < 1237313155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a shit kde client < 1237313168 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION likes it
< 1237313192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:47:02 * oklofok suddenly symphatizes with ehird < 1237313194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1237313196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's get married. < 1237313223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably what ehird said... since the package description includes the word "advanced". It is like you should be careful of any country known as the "Democratic republic of " < 1237313238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are probably not democracies < 1237313249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't emacs claim to be advanced < 1237313255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1237313278 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux is more 'advanced' than Windows < 1237313282 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beware < 1237313286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is different. I was talking about the one line descriptions in the package manager. And for emacs that is: Description: The extensible, customizable, self-documenting real-time display editor < 1237313293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: democratic republic of the united states of america < 1237313294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which sound just as bad < 1237313308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :REAL-TIME DISPLAY EDITOR, AnMaster < 1237313309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's amazing < 1237313320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can edit and see changes as soon as your screen repaints! < 1237313326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah package maintainer must be an idiot < 1237313327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can see lines you're not even editing for context! < 1237313330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this emacs is *wild* < 1237313334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: gnu.org describes it as that < 1237313339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my < 1237313343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blame rms being a 70s hobo < 1237313350 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boho < 1237313361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going to watch stephen fry's hilarious gnu video now < 1237313361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, isn't the full name "United States of America"? < 1237313367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and cringe < 1237313370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it was a joke < 1237313373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1237313389 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1237313401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I would have guessed that if it had been before Obama became president. Now it was a bit more confusing < 1237313427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah obama shits rainbows and magic. < 1237313440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. But do you prefer Obama or Bush? < 1237313462 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :family guy said bush is pretty stupid < 1237313465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you want a bath of dung or a bath of vomit or a bath of urine CHOOSE QUICKLY < 1237313482 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again south park said obama is a jewel thief. < 1237313492 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know what to believe. < 1237313502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bushama bin laden < 1237313512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ITHE TRUTH IS OUT^I < 1237313515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if I were a pig: the first. But since I'm a human the last one + whatever they use to clean water on ISS. < 1237313522 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd probably go for urine < 1237313545 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then number one, vomit probably last < 1237313628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.kvirc.net/ <-- wth at the web site design. The thing at the top look like from some fantasy game... < 1237313638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what on earth does it has to do with irc? < 1237313652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a bunch of irc clients are like that < 1237313654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno why < 1237313660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably because of irc's LEET HAXOR sort of rep. < 1237313668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1237313672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what other ones? < 1237313678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crap ones < 1237313717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:15 CTCP-reply VERSION from Robdgreat : Microsoft Internet Explorer v3.0 < 1237313719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AIEEEEEEEEEEE < 1237313724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.irssi.org/ <-- "irssi - the client of the future" hahaha. < 1237313725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1237313731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you would like that! < 1237313746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a graphical installer on windows it seems! < 1237313749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the irony < 1237313770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:15 CTCP-reply ERRMSG from clog : unknown CTCP: VERSION < 1237313775 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irssi the best < 1237313792 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1237313795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :limechat<3 < 1237313796 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1237313800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, well it is a good client, but I don't like it personally < 1237313809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1237313812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, for example mixing all server messages in one tab < 1237313813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1237313816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1237313828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too many irssis here < 1237313830 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah, but it's the best < 1237313842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, or not handling more than +vho properly (many networks use +a and +q too, including some that I need) < 1237313855 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you're the fruit that's in 4000 channels < 1237313861 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you have special needs then < 1237313872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, ... 561 atm... < 1237313875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :far from 4000 < 1237313881 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IS A LOT < 1237313885 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i guess irssi would kinda suck for switching between them < 1237313890 0 :Robdgreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I use IE 3 for irc < 1237313894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: 'special needs' < 1237313896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use ERC in fact < 1237313923 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you really don't like something in irssi, you should be able to just fix it < 1237313926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/ERC < 1237313928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1237313934 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as i understand it has very good code < 1237313991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, there are some major design issues that you hit on a lot of other servers. It works fine on freenode and classical networks, But it has trouble dealing with networks using ircds like unrealircd, inspircd and so on < 1237314032 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1237314049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, it can't support more prefixes than +%@ and one additional one < 1237314055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on a network with two additional ones < 1237314070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all listed in the 005 numeric < 1237314072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1237314089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PREFIX=(qaohv)~&@%+ < 1237314159 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure the network has perfectly valid reasons to need all of those < 1237314197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, ? Is that your defense for why irssi should be hard coded to only support one extra? < 1237314214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament's right you know. < 1237314246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well not my problem, for an end user it should just work whatever network I connect to. Also a lot of networks have that set of prefixes < 1237314285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly unrealircd is the most common ircd (source: http://searchirc.com/ircd-versions), and it has those prefixes < 1237314324 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess irssi does suck then :( < 1237314325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally I prefer InspIRCd. For which this is configurable < 1237314356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, the irssi devs refuses to fix the issue. < 1237314362 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1237314378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, I even know someone (a good programmer) who wrote a patch to do it, and it got rejected. < 1237314380 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is their argument similar to mine? < 1237314405 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The network has good reasons to need prefixes, so irssi shoudln't implement them"? < 1237314435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I think lament was being ironic there. Anyway fact is most networks out there use them. Not all but a clear majority < 1237314453 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: s/ironic/sarcastic/ < 1237314459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ok. < 1237314474 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't sarcastic. I was ironic. < 1237314497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: oh the sarcasm < 1237314517 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the irony! < 1237315341 0 :Hiato!n=1@dsl-245-1-23.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1237315499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I just read about Finlandssvenska on wikipedia. Would you say "anden" (en:~the spirit) and "anden" (en:the duck) is pronounced the same way or differently? < 1237315545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err not duck exactly. http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%84nder < 1237315547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that < 1237315611 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, I've never heard those pronounced :-P < 1237315662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I invented a new fractal. < 1237315664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finlandssvenska says they are the same in Finlandssvenska. They are almost the same in Swedish but not exactly. < 1237315671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1237315673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of fractal < 1237315698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, wp says the difference is http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonaccent . There is however no English interwiki link from it. No idea what it is called in English < 1237315784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically, I think it's a 1d fractal after infinity iterations < 1237315790 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This bip-bouncer is a bit funny with version replies; if I CTCP myself I get one reply from it, and one reply from each connected client. < 1237315805 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I noticed someone had been versionifying around.) < 1237315811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me < 1237315841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, do you know about that thing? < 1237315844 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Either I can't tell the difference or I've just never heard a case where I could compare. The only examples being from Swedish, Norwegian, and Chinish doesn't help much. :-P < 1237315927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, Tomten (en-lit:the father xmas) vs. tomten (en:the area around a free standing house that belongs to the house owner (and includes the area the actual house is built on), forgot the word for it) < 1237315939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are pronounced differently < 1237315952 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I wouldn't know such details. About "tonaccent", http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone_(linguistics) is probably what you mean. < 1237315959 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter is fi:tontti btw < 1237315965 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chinese is a typical example of a language that heavily uses that stuff. < 1237315983 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: And yes, I saw the examples on the page, and my above statement still applies. < 1237315987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah yes that was mentioned on the Swedish page too < 1237316007 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_phonology#Stress_and_pitch < 1237316022 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, formel/formell. Now that's an obvious difference. < 1237316032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that isn't the same as that < 1237316055 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just about to say that. < 1237316062 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant you know chinese? < 1237316068 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: No, not at all. < 1237316076 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1237316078 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see. < 1237316081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor do I < 1237316105 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh actually psygnisfive studied at least some of it iirc < 1237316113 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Find me a short video or sound bite where they have such a word pair so I can compare < 1237316123 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: the shi shi poem, are there phonetic differences in the shi's or just tonal? < 1237316128 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me neither, but a study-mate-sort-of-person has been in China for a year or two now, he talks about the language every now and then. < 1237316139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I could record it, though since I just ate some very sticky nougat it wouldn't be very clear.... < 1237316150 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1237316169 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1237316169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, if you can wait a few minutes I should be able to do it < 1237316187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, also what is a "sound bite"? < 1237316211 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you know like taking a really sound bite from a bread, one that definitely gets a piece off < 1237316213 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Asound%20bite < 1237316240 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's another definition, but it's much less useful < 1237316265 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And much more correct. :-P < 1237316324 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah right < 1237316535 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1237316750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOTO CONSIDERED PARMFUL < 1237316768 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : sil ~ sieve, sill is a type of fish, don't remember the English name for it. < 1237316776 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :herring, red or otherwise < 1237316780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1237316793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ITYM julesfish < 1237316795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er gules < 1237316804 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that < 1237316821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never herd of it either < 1237316828 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no bell rings on either of them < 1237316847 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it's a horrible misspelling of lutefisk < 1237316855 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even I have no idea what ehird's talking about < 1237316862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :………… < 1237316864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude. < 1237316868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rodger's puzzles? < 1237316870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember? < 1237316872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2007? < 1237316874 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1237316875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GulesFish, Basil.tif? < 1237316883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duuudes whattt < 1237316887 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was eons ago < 1237316898 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat had a rather diabolical series of puzzles up on his website; GulesFish was one of them. < 1237316899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1237316900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it was < 1237316904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1237316907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what was basils' solution btw < 1237316909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: before your time < 1237316910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :move along < 1237316930 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Take an image editor and play around with everything. I'm sure you'll find it eventually. < 1237316935 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember gulesfish < 1237316939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the site is dead. < 1237316947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, love iwc today < 1237316947 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you didn't keep Basil.tif? < 1237316972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was on the other machine; which died a peaceful death a few days ago. < 1237316982 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did it die? < 1237316985 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm google actually found some of the logs for that < 1237316988 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright, fine. < 1237317005 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :computers can die pieceful deaths? < 1237317009 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1237317011 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pieceful :D < 1237317012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the motherboard is a shitty cheap one (I mean really cheap); it just stopped booting. It'd whirr, but no beep from the BIOS. < 1237317021 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ah, but do you have a control sample? maybe your love was a measure error. < 1237317029 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basil.tif had some text in the picture that was colored something like #FFFFFE against an #FFFFFF background. < 1237317032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parental overlords gave it to the local computer shop; they said the cost of replacing all the components would be the cost of a new PC. < 1237317033 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what you get for starting to write a sentence, taking a sip of coke, and emptying the phonetic buffer < 1237317042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hahah < 1237317043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hehe < 1237317058 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: i say they can, very easily < 1237317060 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also had a lot of weird stuff hidden in the .tif that was meant to throw you off. < 1237317083 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*measuring < 1237317083 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: does the hard drive still work? < 1237317090 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should copy the data off it < 1237317090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: probably < 1237317096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's nothing there of value < 1237317099 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, actually i guess even in humans a "peaceful death" doesn't mean a slow fade into inexistance. < 1237317103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider that I've rarely touched that machine since 2006 < 1237317113 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh accelerating channel < 1237317122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may find that there's something there of value later < 1237317125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nostalgia's always fun < 1237317135 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eventually it will rival #wikipedia or #gentoo in chat volume. < 1237317137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, I was rather an idiot in 2006; the nostalgia is mostly cringes. < 1237317148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1237317154 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:D < 1237317154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION tries to remember how to record
< 1237317162 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things haven't changed much in 3 years eh < 1237317163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a peaceful death of a computer is where it slowly but surely gets less and less working (it was freezing up and messing up the display a lot a few days before) and then just stops :P < 1237317164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arecord --obscure-commandline < 1237317169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1237317170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Fuck you :) < 1237317171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ttyrec file.rec -e command < 1237317177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sound... < 1237317179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1237317185 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recording a terminal session's more fun < 1237317188 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nostalgia isn't what it used to be < 1237317199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that joke's made far too often < 1237317202 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a cliche here in the UK < 1237317209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, useless for helping Deewiant understand how tomten and tomten are different in Swedish < 1237317217 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: don't complain about being the straight man < 1237317219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My nostalgia is mostly for things that never happened; or will happen; or are happening presently—but never that happen to me. < 1237317222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm rather bizarre. < 1237317249 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sox's "rec" tool is usually easier. Just "rec test.wav"; around here the defaults seem sensible enough (48 kHz, stereo, 16-bit; rather overkill but works). < 1237317260 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but, you mean that joke was better before? *ducks* < 1237317261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, don't have "sox" < 1237317274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :install it < 1237317279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sox is a nice tool < 1237317287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1237317369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I use timidity to generate sound files, although admittedly that's doing something completely different < 1237317379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth, *goes to kmix* < 1237317406 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Audacity also has a record-it button, if you happen to have it and don't want to fiddle with a command line. < 1237317432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's up with your trend of "use this instead; it's in the same category as what you want to do but doesn't actually do it" < 1237317471 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't want to answer that question, is it OK if I answer an unrelated but completely different question instead? < 1237317477 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*related < 1237317479 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ais523 may be becoming a true software engineer < 1237317480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what formats can you handle? < 1237317482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flac? ogg? < 1237317485 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Anything. < 1237317487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Why don't you ask a question instead? It's the same type of thing, but different. < 1237317492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, flac in ogg container then < 1237317492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1237317494 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Some might take that as a challenge. < 1237317506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes me! < 1237317510 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even *shiver* a politician < 1237317514 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Do you have the 3gpp AMR-WB/NB codecs both? < 1237317514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FLAC in OGG is simple. < 1237317517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hardly a challenge. < 1237317518 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I challenge you to encode it in a 1-bit .wav < 1237317521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh < 1237317525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not even uncommon < 1237317530 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in theory, even with a 1-bit encoding you can get the music to sound fine if the frequency's high enough < 1237317535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Deewiant: Do you have the 3gpp AMR-WB/NB codecs both? <-- I don't have them < 1237317537 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Beats me. < 1237317541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik < 1237317543 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to the slew rate of the speakerse < 1237317545 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*speakers < 1237317547 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can play all files that start playing when i double-click them < 1237317554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about raw? < 1237317563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ file tone.raw < 1237317563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tone.raw: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 48000 Hz < 1237317565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that ok? < 1237317577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just arecord -f dat < 1237317579 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also in practice, many A/D converters are technically speaking 1-bit, it's just that they have a high enough frequency. And then some stuff to get multi-bit values. < 1237317586 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those weird speech-encoding codecs I probably don't have, actually. < 1237317647 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Isn't that a pain, since knowing the kind of data within is impossible, it can only be guessed? < 1237317654 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You'd make me write the WAV headers myself :-P < 1237317658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, heh < 1237317675 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You could write some pretty reliable heuristics, though. < 1237317679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I just did flac --best tone.raw and it guessed it perfectly < 1237317687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I doubt you would have any issues. < 1237317694 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, tools guess that. < 1237317708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway: http://omploader.org/vMWU3Nw < 1237317715 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed that they'd fail since it's just random bytes as far as they know < 1237317739 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed (given a .raw extension) that they'd just use some default values. < 1237317744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, translation: "Do you believe in father xmas? The house is on the " < 1237317747 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's nice if they actually intelligently guess. < 1237317751 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, if it's in a RIFF file, it's not raw. It has a header specifying the audio coding, the bits per sample, the channels, and the sampling frequency... < 1237317761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah interesting < 1237317769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I don't really know this stuff < 1237317770 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is, in fact, a WAV file. < 1237317771 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1237317774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1237317810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Safari plays it; so it's probably something common < 1237317813 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, if 'file' can dig up the information, it definitely isn't raw data. But a more audio-oriented tool could actually guess. < 1237317820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah I should have used -t raw < 1237317825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-t, --file-type TYPE file type (voc, wav, raw or au) < 1237317833 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The main difference I can detect is the length of the pause before 'ten' < 1237317846 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or it's not really a pause but I forget what it's properly called < 1237317863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes thats it. And I'm trying to make it extra large in that example < 1237317869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually the difference is way smaller < 1237317906 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's a stop. < 1237317915 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Can you make one where you don't exaggerate it? I want to see if I can still notice it < 1237317927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure. And true raw this time? < 1237317962 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Preferably not, since Firefox was able to play that without me having to download it < 1237317966 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's also a 'plosive', if you want to sound like a more classier guy. < 1237317968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1237317978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never had firefox play in the browser < 1237317983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since when did it do that? < 1237317985 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Plosive was actually what I was thinking of, cheers. < 1237318010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh even mplayer fails on raw < 1237318012 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Either it's because I have a different version or it's forwarding it to the mplayer plugin or whatever < 1237318013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess not raw < 1237318017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: cat it to /dev/audio < 1237318025 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, it uses raw < 1237318043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that is noice < 1237318044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :noise* < 1237318066 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, clearly you have the wrong bitwidth or rate or something < 1237318073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1237318083 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: /dev/audio also uses mu-Law encoding of samples, not simple linear PCM. < 1237318097 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: /dev/dsp defaults to 8 bits per sample and some absurdly low frequency, and /dev/audio uses mu-Law. < 1237318098 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I didn't know that < 1237318111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and /dev/dsp? I didn't know of that one < 1237318128 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/dev/dsp does 8 kHz, 8-bit single-channel by default, I think. < 1237318138 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that sounds right. < 1237318164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets see < 1237318184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://omploader.org/vMWU3YQ < 1237318188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flac this time < 1237318197 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That goes to mplayer < 1237318218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, for me both show download dialogs < 1237318243 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other one shows nothing but plays on every refresh < 1237318248 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/dev/audio does µ-law encoding because that's what Sun used, and I guess that's where it's from, or at least part of the line of descent. < 1237318256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1237318266 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox itself won't play anything, so the behaviour depends on the plugins. < 1237318274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1237318296 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At work there's some sort of Gnome totem (media player) plugin installed, and it almost never does anything useful. < 1237318298 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Are you sure 3.1 (since 3.5) won't? < 1237318302 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it often tries. < 1237318309 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have