< 1237852815 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I also bought my card quite late < 1237852831 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well.. 1½ year ago, at least < 1237852847 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fi:liksa is a colloquialism of fi:palkka, which is en:salary; unfortunately that leaves the "ng" part unused, and there's that inter-word "-" too. < 1237852860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The actual usage of mine is pretty simple; the GBA card is just there so you can stick the SD card with the data on it in, see. It has a hole in the cartridge, you're meant to put videos/pictures etc on it. < 1237852871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So then you put the max media launcher in the DS slot, and it reads the card and runs it. < 1237852905 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the passme way thingy? < 1237852911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah; but less "raw". < 1237852914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.maxconsole.net/?mode=news&newsid=7100 Max media launcher < 1237852922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/GBA_Movie_Player < 1237852928 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do remember seeing that combination mentioned. < 1237852940 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back when I was considering what sort of hardware to get. < 1237852952 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I've ever used the GBA slot on my DS :\ < 1237852959 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I just decided to go with the NDS-slot-only solution, even though that doesn't let you run GBA stuff on it. < 1237852961 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I still want it there < 1237852966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I have a GBA SP so I play gameboy advance games on that < 1237852973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's lighter and stuff. < 1237852982 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i assume "lich" is etymologically related < 1237852988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ?? < 1237852990 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My brother has a GBA SP, so I play GBA stuff on it < 1237852993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to what? < 1237852994 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also works < 1237853002 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1237853003 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"lik" < 1237853006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1237853007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1237853011 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Old English līċ. Cognate with Dutch lijk, German Leiche, Swedish/Norwegian/Danish lik." < 1237853013 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you need EVERYTHING explained? < 1237853019 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1237853022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The original GBA was pretty silly-looking. < 1237853024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I much prefer the SP < 1237853029 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah :\ < 1237853033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw what is "lich" in Swedish? I mean, when talking about the fantasy monster < 1237853040 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a GBA Original, I liked it < 1237853041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"lik" wouldn't work < 1237853043 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Got stolen < 1237853058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, explained? < 1237853083 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1237853086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1237853090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, the gba movie player lets you play NES games on a gba < 1237853092 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats AnMaster to within an inch of his life -----### < 1237853093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should try that sometime < 1237853101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1237853108 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tyda couldn't translate, lexin couldn't, wiki couldn't < 1237853115 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a NES emulator for DS, though? < 1237853121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, probably. < 1237853123 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so < 1237853133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the pokemon rpgs are far too addictive. :x < 1237853133 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1237853134 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NesDS, yes. Very imaginative name. < 1237853149 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wiki has a nice collection of DS HB stuff < 1237853149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got a glitch in my pokemon sapphire game that I worked a lot on; it just wouldn't advance to the next stage of the game. < 1237853152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was pretty irritating. < 1237853173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and on the topic of pseudomath, I used to try and fit uncountable sets into countable ones. < 1237853173 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: were you messing with the GBA/DS you were playing it on? < 1237853176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nope. < 1237853187 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Nintendo_DS_homebrew < 1237853188 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how could you work a lot on it and yet not complete all the stages of the game? < 1237853191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just waiting for some stadium or other surrounded by water to unlock, which it should, but it wouldn't. < 1237853199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I just wandered around trying to fix it; which I couldn't. < 1237853208 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err... which stadium in particular? < 1237853217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't actually recall, this was years ago < 1237853226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll look it up < 1237853230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Also, the pokemon rpgs are far too addictive. :x <-- they are? never had any gba or ds or such. Nor any pokemon game or such. I was never into that stuff. < 1237853272 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are < 1237853284 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even when playing in an emulator :\ < 1237853313 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder how well nethack's DS port works. < 1237853342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, even Bulbapedia doesn't have in-depth stadium info for each game. < 1237853355 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: the fantasy meaning of "lich" seems to be from D&D according to wp < 1237853371 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't think Pokemon Sapphire had stadia < 1237853377 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's quite ancient, older than me < 1237853377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and me and my brother completely completed it between us < 1237853397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, I'm not sure if it was a stadium or what < 1237853401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all I know is it was surrounded by water < 1237853405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was locked. < 1237853407 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1237853418 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: half the game of pokemon sapphire's surrounded by water < 1237853426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. That's why that's not too helpful. < 1237853427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was probably just something you were missing, rather than a glitch < 1237853451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, some other people who had reached that point a few times took a look over the game and couldn't find anything. < 1237853455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/shrug < 1237853490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone know a GBA emulator for os x? < 1237853496 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My brother got stuck in one of those DS pkmn dungeon games < 1237853511 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't VBA ported to the mac? < 1237853514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1237853527 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC there's even a Wii version < 1237853543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only up to 1.7 < 1237853546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, Bulbapedia <-- what a silly name < 1237853551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what's silly about it < 1237853552 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1237853554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bulbasaur -> bulbapedia < 1237853569 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1237853572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok... what the heck is "bulbasaur"? < 1237853576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...a pokemon... < 1237853578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/facepalm < 1237853581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1237853586 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of.. The first 151 < 1237853587 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even < 1237853594 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bulbasaur is in fact #1 < 1237853598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I seee. And, you say this pokemon is the name of a pokemon site? Uhh huh. I'm sure." < 1237853599 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the reason people pick it < 1237853601 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VBA can mean: < 1237853601 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Visual Basic for Applications, the application edition of Microsoft's Visual Basic programming language. < 1237853604 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nonono :( < 1237853608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, I only know there is this yellow thing called pikatu or something like that < 1237853612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XDDD < 1237853613 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chu* < 1237853614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :end of pokemon knowledge < 1237853614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you're hilarious < 1237853615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are over 450 of the things nowadays < 1237853618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't ever stop being AnMaster < 1237853620 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikachu is #25 < 1237853626 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But really < 1237853626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh... some red/white balls too right? < 1237853630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1237853631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD XD XD < 1237853632 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cyndaquil > all < 1237853633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<33 < 1237853636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster you're great. < 1237853638 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And second gen > all < 1237853647 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMHO < 1237853653 0 :tromp!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1237853654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm not joking. < 1237853658 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1237853658 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: I don't think I've ever met a Cyndaquil fan before... < 1237853662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know. that's the best thing, AnMaster < 1237853662 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1237853665 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is < 1237853682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cyndaquil looks like it's shitting fire out of its butt. just saying. < 1237853692 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A friend did ascii-art versions of the first #134. < 1237853695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought you might like to know < 1237853700 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, s/#// < 1237853703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: does mooz still exist < 1237853703 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1237853719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I had a different upbrininging I guess, rather than watching TV one of my parents used to read aloud out of classical children books when I grew up. Stuff like that does affect you < 1237853723 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I haven't heard anything in a couple of months, but I do suspect so, yes. < 1237853724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1237853731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I didn't watch tv. < 1237853740 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: He's a married man nowadays, maybe not so much time for IRC. < 1237853743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I did a tiny bit, not much. < 1237853747 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still have some of the TCG cards < 1237853750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: why would you do anything to reduce your possible IRC time < 1237853754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just illogical < 1237853764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you are too young to realise it I gues... < 1237853766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess* < 1237853766 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Also not sure if he's still in Finland, or in Peru now. < 1237853773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see? In Peru I bet IRC is outlawed. < 1237853775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a stupid guy. < 1237853779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does he live in bizarro world? < 1237853785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet he sleeps too < 1237853790 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1237853791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why people sleep I will never figure out < 1237853798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'hur hur I'll just STOP IRCING that is a good thing to do' < 1237853800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dumbasse < 1237853801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1237853814 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's good for your grades < 1237853827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are grades good for, apart from getting jobs that siphon time off from irc. < 1237853835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, a few jumped steps there < 1237853836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you get the idea. < 1237853840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all an anti irc conspiracy. < 1237853848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I googled for this "Cyndaquil" mentioned above... "It evolves into Quilava starting at level 14" <-- wth? That isn't how evolution works at all < 1237853850 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grades means good job means programming & IRCing means ?? means profit < 1237853854 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you forgot ... PROFIT < 1237853863 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DIDN'T < 1237853864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :profit is useless; just live on irc. < 1237853869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's a game. < 1237853874 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC time IS profit < 1237853877 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: clever guy < 1237853879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Pokemon: That isn't how the real world works at all! < 1237853884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly this is some way to try to make evolution look silly < 1237853889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: What, in Mario you can just jump several times your height then fly down really quickly. < 1237853893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not how gravity works at all! < 1237853894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wtf! < 1237853920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a conspiracy from the intelligent design people... < 1237853928 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :._. < 1237853942 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i suppose "metamorphosis" is a better term < 1237853951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, difference: everyone agrees gravity exists. While a lot of people disagrees about evolution... < 1237853954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Considering that creationists hate pokemon like the plague... < 1237853959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes that would be better < 1237853959 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, in you can jump in the air < 1237853962 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bad engine < 1237853963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, nobody knowledgable about the topic at all denies evolution < 1237853965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, they do? < 1237853972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, true. < 1237853981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't imply scientists denied it < 1237853985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes. And the more rabid fundamentalist christians call it satanism/witchcraft etc taking creatures and battling them and evolving them and whatnot. < 1237853989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of fundamentalists do however < 1237853994 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evilution. :) < 1237854009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, well, fundamentalists say a lot of stupid things. < 1237854011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ok but that isn't the same sort of evolution at all... < 1237854027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean the pokemon evolution seems silly < 1237854028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just really fast evolution that happens in sprints. < 1237854039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just imagine an animal constantly breeding with itself then dying, so fast that you don't even see it happen. < 1237854042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then pokemon evolution makes sense. < 1237854044 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a game! < 1237854049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird I suppose the God of evolution is involved? < 1237854061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: It's AnMaster! < 1237854072 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, have you seen Star Wars? < 1237854078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, just after a certain level they morph into a higher species. < 1237854081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you can cancel it < 1237854081 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT IST'T REAL ;__; < 1237854090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, yes I have, too much space opera for my taste < 1237854092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: SPACE DOESN'T WORK LIKE THAT DAMMIT < 1237854092 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/IST/ISN < 1237854097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THERE'S NO SUCH THING AS HYPERSPACE < 1237854107 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Etc etc < 1237854110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALSO THE PROBABILITY OF EVERYONE SPEAKING ENGLISH IS SO VASTLY SMALL THAT— < 1237854116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :physically Star Trek is as bad < 1237854120 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Force, jumping in the air < 1237854123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even worse < 1237854129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about psychically < 1237854130 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hitting stuff with light :D < 1237854137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh no < 1237854148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no "empaths" please... < 1237854173 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This subject is quite dead now < 1237854179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, about speaking English, I think HHGTG solves that in a neat way < 1237854187 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1237854192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes. Also known as a cop out. < 1237854197 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's true, actually < 1237854212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well the babelfish is a rather nice idea, and of course it isn't realistic < 1237854224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of h2g2. < 1237854228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I know that astrology isn't a science," said Gail. "Of course it isn't. < 1237854228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just an arbitrary set of rules like chess or tennis or, what's that < 1237854229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange thing you British play?' < 1237854231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Er, cricket? Self-loathing?" < 1237854232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't realistic indeed < 1237854233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Parliamentary democracy." < 1237854235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— Mostly Harmless < 1237854246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, heh < 1237854256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, does anyone understand the rules for cricket? < 1237854263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :outside UK and AU possibly < 1237854265 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen it once < 1237854278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I seem to recall seeing some black people winning some sort of tournament. :-P < 1237854281 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have a ball, hit some three poles and run around < 1237854288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you tell I don't pay much attention to sport? < 1237854323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, was there any obvious rules? Like watching football you can quick soon figure out the point is to get the ball into a net at the opposite end of the plane < 1237854330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :split in two teams < 1237854345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but from what I have seen of cricket it seems a bit more confusing < 1237854348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh oh. < 1237854351 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing obvious < 1237854353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The RSA shut down the factoring challenge. < 1237854355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1237854363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? < 1237854363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guyz panic time nao < 1237854363 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like some odd variant of "brännboll" < 1237854371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes... < 1237854371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they've cracked it :D < 1237854379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, they did? < 1237854385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1237854388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was conspiracy theorizing < 1237854391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1237854394 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hitting ball with bat, running arounb poles < 1237854400 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :around* < 1237854400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so did they find the number or? < 1237854410 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1237854411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err it's nothing to do with finding numbers < 1237854413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/RSA_numbers < 1237854427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, I don't know the rules of brännboll, it seemed rather confusing though < 1237854437 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...it's simple < 1237854448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is? I have never been much for team sports < 1237854454 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You get to play it all the time in school < 1237854458 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mandatory stuff < 1237854462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brannboll? Basketball? < 1237854476 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More like baseball < 1237854481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1237854488 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hitting ball far, running < 1237854492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Brännboll (pronounced [ˈbrɛnbɔl]) is a game similar to rounders, baseball, lapta and pesäpallo" < 1237854497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1237854521 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But without fancy gloves < 1237854528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Anyway, us brits are actually truly awful at cricket. :P < 1237854542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pesäpallo? < 1237854543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that < 1237854547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is google < 1237854550 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds finnish < 1237854554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah < 1237854556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what is it < 1237854556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pesäpallo [pesæpɑlːo] (Swedish: Boboll, also referred to as "Finnish baseball") < 1237854558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pesäpallo < 1237854566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boboll? never heard of that < 1237854569 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bo = living < 1237854573 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me neither < 1237854579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, and yes I know what bo means < 1237854585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: is the ball autonomous? :P < 1237854587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also know who he is ;) < 1237854594 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, most likely ehird doesn't < 1237854599 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And < 1237854610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err not that living, living as in house, dwelling < 1237854613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as in alive < 1237854614 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1237854617 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1237854620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"who he is ;)" wut < 1237854632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, Bo is also a name in Swedish < 1237854638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1237854657 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have lots of strange names < 1237854669 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I guess most languages has < 1237854680 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, have* < 1237854682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't there some politician called Bo Lundgren? Or something < 1237854688 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so < 1237854697 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The.. leader of some party < 1237854710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm google says moderaterna < 1237854713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1237854713 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have to vote 'till next year < 1237854718 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::\ < 1237854727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, 17? < 1237854732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1237854737 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In August, es < 1237854739 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes* < 1237854742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never thought you were that young < 1237854747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"that young"? < 1237854749 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Bo Axel Magnus Lundgren (born July 11, 1947) is a Swedish politician. He is the former leader of the Moderate Party." < 1237854754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly's always seemed like a teen to me? < 1237854761 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To me too :D < 1237854769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, more like 20 or so to me < 1237854773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't ever have to vote :P < 1237854774 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::\ < 1237854787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...but I _can_ in 3 years. < 1237854789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, how old would you say I am? (ehird: don't tell him) < 1237854796 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't HAVE to, but I can < 1237854796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's 7 < 1237854797 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I vote 1,000 years. < 1237854798 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION deports ehird to australia < 1237854801 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, like 20? < 1237854803 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC < 1237854807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, 19 < 1237854809 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen it before < 1237854810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but close enough < 1237854811 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh < 1237854812 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Close < 1237854818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, I can vote in 3 years. < 1237854821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's scary. < 1237854824 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As an aside, today is my 19th birthday... < 1237854825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err 13 + 3 = 16. Can you vote when 16?! < 1237854834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :…err... I think so < 1237854835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in UK < 1237854838 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Congratulations, pikhq < 1237854838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't pay much attention to that sort of stuff < 1237854841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, here in Sweden it is 18 < 1237854842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be 18 or something < 1237854847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, congrats < 1237854853 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoo. < 1237854856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But adulthood is 16 in the UK i think < 1237854861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I hope it is 18, or I'm scared about UK < 1237854866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1237854867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is 18 < 1237854868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right < 1237854871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thing < 1237854881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16 is when you can have sex and drink and stuff :P < 1237854893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so I can vote in 5 years; that's a little less scary < 1237854896 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13 year old people shouldn't be doing J stuff :\ < 1237854905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: yeah dirty J < 1237854906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, drink is 21 here I think < 1237854909 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or writing OO in perl < 1237854910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only consenting adults should be allowed to program in J < 1237854911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sex is probably 16 < 1237854920 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Sweden? < 1237854928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, yeah < 1237854928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you should be scared about the UK anyway; considering we're heading to a nanny state < 1237854930 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sex is 15 years old IIRC < 1237854946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The age of consent for girls in Japan is 13; don't ask me how I know this. < 1237854959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it isn't like you are alone. I'm too busy being scared about FRA and IPRED and such here < 1237854967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't have time to be scared about UK < 1237854974 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Drinking.. It's 21 for buying (IIRC), but 18 for drinking in retaurants < 1237854987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, I see. I haven't done either yet anyway < 1237854988 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1237854988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Does your govt take 1984 as an instruction manual? < 1237854989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ours does. < 1237855011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, a lot of this is from EU level, so pretty much the same here I'm afraid < 1237855032 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brb < 1237855049 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brbd wr < 1237855058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly the solution is to vote for the BNP. Err, maybe not. < 1237855063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bread wr? < 1237855073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, BNP? < 1237855078 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :barbed wire < 1237855079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: British National Party. < 1237855081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bruttonationalprodukt? < 1237855083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xenophobic fucks. < 1237855088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it isn't the other < 1237855092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what BNP means here < 1237855097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :White-nationalist fascists. < 1237855101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't come much worse. < 1237855109 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: GNP in english < 1237855121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it stand for in English? < 1237855122 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait < 1237855122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, by the way, they're quite popular. < 1237855135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In the 2005 UK general election, the BNP received 0.7% of the popular vote, giving it the eighth largest share of the vote, although it was fifth overall among English seats." < 1237855141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"also finishing fifth in the 2008 London mayoral election with 5.23% of the popular vote, as well as electing Mayoral candidate Richard Barnbrook to the Greater London Assembly" < 1237855144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is the the thing you measure how rich a country is per capita? < 1237855151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the BNP is "committed to stemming and reversing the tide of non-white immigration and to restoring, by legal changes, negotiation and consent the overwhelmingly white makeup of the British population that existed in Britain prior to 1948. < 1237855152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BNP per capita in Swedish... < 1237855159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Gross national product; GNP < 1237855162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1237855163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1237855169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, in Swedish we call that BNP < 1237855174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It advocates the repeal of all anti-discrimination legislation, and restricts party membership to "indigenous British ethnic groups deriving from the class of ‘Indigenous Caucasian’"." < 1237855188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Its publicity has often conflated Islam with Marxism." < 1237855225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1237855231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's crazy < 1237855242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd laugh if it wasn't serious. < 1237855260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The party supports animal welfare and environmental policies, supporting Greenpeace in its fight against Japanese whaling ships and the RSPCA's campaign against the docking of dogs' tails." < 1237855262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahaha. < 1237855267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are they trying to appear humane or something? < 1237855271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds somewhat like Sverigedemokraterna (a similar party here in Sweden, name means "Swedish democrats", nothing like that....) < 1237855287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[When asked in 1993 if the BNP was racist, its deputy leader Richard Edmonds said, "We are 100 per cent racist, yes".[94] Founder John Tyndall proclaimed that "Mein Kampf is my bible".]] < 1237855295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mein fucking Kampf. < 1237855309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like a parody that someone forgot was a joke. < 1237855325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"is a Swedish political party that describes itself as a nationalist movement which opposes all forms of racism. " < 1237855326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol wut < 1237855336 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, they're.. serious? < 1237855337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, huh... Is it "per cent" or "percent" in English? < 1237855342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: The BNP? Yes. < 1237855346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: either. Latter is more common. < 1237855349 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strange guys < 1237855364 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the former feels more british < 1237855376 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To me, at least < 1237855394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "is a Swedish political party that describes itself as a nationalist movement which opposes all forms of racism. " <-- that is what they say, they are racists though... < 1237855396 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jolly good, old chap < 1237855400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The British fall into three categories: grumpy and self-hating, hateful fucks and smug assholes. < 1237855404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fun. < 1237855411 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where are you? < 1237855423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about the good old jolly chaps? < 1237855430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: They went extinct. < 1237855438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh I see. When did that happen? < 1237855443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: Probably the latter. :P < 1237855455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's arguable whether they ever existed. < 1237855456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Ellis called the BNP "a bit too socialist" for his liking]] < 1237855459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL WUT < 1237855464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, ehird is definitely not the first one.. < 1237855470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure about the two latter ones < 1237855471 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1237855498 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm supposed to sleep < 1237855515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: Didn't you learn anything? < 1237855518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That removes IRC time. < 1237855521 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1237855528 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it DOES improve grades < 1237855529 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1237855533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes but < 1237855538 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lessons tomorrow... < 1237855541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grades only contribute to less IRC! < 1237855557 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Physics, programming, lunch, stuff < 1237855573 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chemics.. What is it called in english? :\ < 1237855577 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And german < 1237855578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chemistry < 1237855579 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chemistry < 1237855581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chemistry < 1237855582 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1237855583 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh < 1237855585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1237855587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mh < 1237855588 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1237855589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh < 1237855591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1237855597 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should've known < 1237855597 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahmed < 1237855602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should've known < 1237855603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahmed < 1237855626 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_______________________ [...] ____> < 1237855634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_______________________ [...] ____> < 1237855657 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1237855665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:47 oklofok has left IRC (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)) < 1237855667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit. < 1237855688 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a complete disaster < 1237855689 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit. < 1237855694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, said connection reset by peer here... freenode is buggy < 1237855695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit. < 1237855697 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a great loss to irckind < 1237855697 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit. < 1237855706 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...ping? < 1237855710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...ping? < 1237855714 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 secs < 1237855715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1237855717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1237855718 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnop < 1237855720 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slow :( < 1237855724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pang < 1237855731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what woudl be cool. < 1237855738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to quote erlang when net_adm:ping() fails) < 1237855750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION always found the "pang" reply funny < 1237855756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no no < 1237855758 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :päng < 1237855758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the correct one is < 1237855763 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pång < 1237855768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ping, pong, aiotjaeintioa < 1237855779 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[00:48:55] you know what woudl be cool. < 1237855780 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell me < 1237855787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "pang" is the sound of a gun shot in Swedish (as written) < 1237855787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't know? < 1237855787 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter being an ancient polynesian curse < 1237855799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, somewhat like "bang" < 1237855801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in English < 1237855805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1237855817 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1237855828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Twisted Russian Roulette: The other 5 cartridges make a sign saying "BANG!" pop out. < 1237855832 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"bom" is more like "boom", I guess < 1237855847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, certainly safer one < 1237855855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, the 6th contains a real bullet/ < 1237855858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1237855859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1237855861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not safer < 1237855875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen it on irc, where it was replaced with kick < 1237855879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from some bot < 1237855886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trazer has that < 1237855888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of #vjn fame < 1237855891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a supybot with loads of addons I think < 1237855892 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One bullet, 5 signs saying "Try again" < 1237855899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trazer is one huge java class < 1237855899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1237855900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, probably had all modules loaded < 1237855901 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's your safety < 1237855906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, heh? < 1237855909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one huge? I see < 1237855913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah no other classes < 1237855916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just one big honking class < 1237855919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably with like 5 methods < 1237855929 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ouch < 1237855929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, someone forced to use a class because java is OO? < 1237855932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know this because oklopol told me :-D < 1237855936 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want my watch :( < 1237855944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, probably someone who isn't too good at programming but knows java :P < 1237855967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure it wasn't someone trying to do imperative in java? < 1237855970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with no OO < 1237855977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1237855985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fairly sure because I've talked to the guy and he's not that type :P < 1237856018 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's imperative that your objects are functional < 1237856042 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This is available for a variety of operating systems like Linux,[2] BSD, Mac OS X,[3] Xbox,[4] and BeOS." < 1237856044 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@ VBA < 1237856056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. I know. < 1237856060 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oki < 1237856079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, sigh < 1237856082 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION should sleep, but then ehird kills said person < 1237856085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it wasn't even good < 1237856098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, VBA? < 1237856112 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VisualBoy Advance < 1237856115 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GBA emu < 1237856118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes /usr/games/bin/VisualBoyAdvance indeed < 1237856123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have it installed in fact < 1237856124 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...GBA = GameBoy Advance < 1237856131 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1237856150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, VBA == Visual Basic for MS Office to me < 1237856157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever it was called < 1237856165 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but was it functional? < 1237856165 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why for Office? < 1237856166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did the A stand for btw? < 1237856181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, I only ever seen it for word/excel macros? < 1237856182 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1237856183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for Applications. < 1237856184 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Visual Basic for Applications, the application edition of Microsoft's Visual Basic programming language." < 1237856185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it used elsewhere? < 1237856186 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1237856188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1237856192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't know that < 1237856197 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1237856203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what other apps use it? < 1237856208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, not really no < 1237856213 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VBScript is pain < 1237856220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, isn't that a third one < 1237856224 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: are you sure you are being objective about this? < 1237856225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :different from VBA? < 1237856231 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Propably < 1237856235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, now that one was slightly better < 1237856237 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's ASP stuff < 1237856239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still rather bad < 1237856241 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Igly syntax < 1237856250 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/I/U < 1237856253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, well yes Basic is ugly < 1237856260 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's worse :| < 1237856278 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least with TI-BASIC it feels esoish < 1237856279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen VBA I know it is worse < 1237856287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, TI-BASIC is pretty nice < 1237856294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the way done on TI-83+ < 1237856302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't feel much like basic at all < 1237856305 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though the TI-82 stats is slooow < 1237856312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never used TI-82 < 1237856317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes it is slow < 1237856330 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC it was a bit worse than the GBO, in most aspects < 1237856343 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GB Original, that is < 1237856345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GBO? < 1237856346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that < 1237856350 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GameBoy < 1237856352 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :._. < 1237856355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, GB Magnum? < 1237856357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yum! < 1237856369 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1237856391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, hey you were supposed to get the joke... < 1237856395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that anyone else would < 1237856397 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did... < 1237856399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but any Swede would < 1237856400 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But < 1237856407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure about oerjan < 1237856419 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why was i thinking about the gun thingy brand before associating it to the Ice cream? < 1237856422 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And < 1237856425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, also what does GameBoy have to do with TI-82? < 1237856435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, no idea... < 1237856445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would think about icecream first < 1237856446 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's from 1980, it's supposed to suck < 1237856449 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And < 1237856454 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The calc is worse < 1237856476 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'll have to learn ASM < 1237856481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, a game boy and a TI-82 are not the same sort of things, One you play games on, the other you calculate things on < 1237856493 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still < 1237856494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, which is best, that book or this chair? < 1237856500 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wel < 1237856501 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :l < 1237856502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're both computers. < 1237856517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ok, which is best: this chair or that table? < 1237856523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are both furniture < 1237856529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not a good comparison, AnMaster < 1237856535 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's like saying a cellphone isn't the same as a camera < 1237856539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nor is gameboy to a calculator < 1237856545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, they aren't the same... < 1237856551 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if it in fact is, to a certain degree < 1237856574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I tried to come up with an elegant way to unify shell syntax. < 1237856576 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many cellphones are of higher quality than my camera < 1237856577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, some cellphones does have cameras built in nowdays yes... < 1237856582 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Camera wise < 1237856582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: all, not some < 1237856588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I came up with a nice way < 1237856595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It made these two snippets identical: < 1237856597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each * rm < 1237856601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each * {x| rm x} < 1237856603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1237856604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each * {x| rm $x} < 1237856614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it unified function definition and aliases < 1237856622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, No I remember reading recently about some heavy duty one (as in they ran it over with a truck and it still worked) with no camera or such < 1237856624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And let you do things like this: < 1237856633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it must have been on radio, some tech program < 1237856640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :find . -exec {x| echo $x; rm $x} \{\} \; < 1237856641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comparing some heavy duty phones < 1237856643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it would work < 1237856647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including running over them with trucks < 1237856651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^ < 1237856658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not all have camera < 1237856659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong < 1237856669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most < 1237856673 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not all, but many < 1237856676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: all, not some < 1237856682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that was incorrect though < 1237856691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck offfffffffffffffffffffffffffffffffff; corner cases are irrelevant 99% of the time < 1237856692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"most, not some" would have been better < 1237856695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why they're corner. cases. < 1237856700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"all" does not mean strictly every single on < 1237856701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1237856704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, correctness is more important than simpleness < 1237856715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :…if you're a douchebag. < 1237856717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't follow the worse is better design < 1237856726 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-vba-163.html < 1237856730 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It IS ugly < 1237856732 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But < 1237856748 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-vbscript-801.html < 1237856752 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is also ugly < 1237856810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-erlang-1482.html <-- beautiful < 1237856819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not beautiful < 1237856820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is ugly < 1237856821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :concurrent! < 1237856831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, beautiful and concurrent! < 1237856845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-haskell-1613.html < 1237856846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-haskell-1070.html < 1237856850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are beautiful. < 1237856855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in syntax and concept < 1237856864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, they are rather nice yes, but are they concurrent? NO < 1237856874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You can implement haskell concurrently < 1237856877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :automatically < 1237856879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with no declarations < 1237856885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's nothing in the standard forbidding it < 1237856893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that one http://99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-erlang-1031.html ? < 1237856907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is simple and clean < 1237856908 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-whitespace-154.html < 1237856911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's purely functional; you can automatically memoize functions, parallelize expressions, ... < 1237856914 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Highlight it, and you can see cool patterns" < 1237856919 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People are smart < 1237856920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, it's not simple and clean compared to the haskell one < 1237856958 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-fjoelnir-259.html < 1237856966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal_: "GRUNNUR" < 1237857043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-fjoelnir-259.html <-- wow < 1237857047 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"[99,98..0]" <-- THAT is nice < 1237857051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "GRUNNUR". < 1237857072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I don't know Islandic < 1237857078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can't translate < 1237857085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, "GRUNNUR" anyway. < 1237857111 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :það er góður. < 1237857126 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's about as much Icelandic as I speak. < 1237857133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal_, what does it mean? < 1237857141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal_: you forgot "GRUNNUR". < 1237857169 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said "that is good", I think. "GRUNNUR" means "BASE" or something like that, it's a module name < 1237857183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what "GRUNNUR" means. < 1237857187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's still "GRUNNUR". < 1237857189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do? < 1237857213 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-befunge-88.html < 1237857216 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.hi.is/~snorri/087133-03/fjolnir.pdf <- one day, I will translate this. < 1237857217 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beutiful < 1237857227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-j-1.html < 1237857237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal_: That may be the only text better than SICP. < 1237857245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, oh yes, much nicer than the haskell one < 1237857246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1237857256 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1237857270 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For esolangs, that is < 1237857292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-befunge-1602.html <-- err heh < 1237857333 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1237857353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal_: you should XOR all the letters in it with SICP. < 1237857362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And produce an impossible book. < 1237857446 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's only past midnight in Britain :( < 1237857475 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, iceland < 1237857562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, http://99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-apple-script-32.html < 1237857568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is why apple script sucks < 1237857581 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: does Icelandic vaguely make sense to you, with it being so close to Norwegian? < 1237857587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I never said I like applescript. < 1237857589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT's just useful. < 1237857591 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1237857629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I still thinks it is the most horrible non-esolang out there apart from possibly COBOL < 1237857633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that I know of < 1237857642 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal_: very vaguely < 1237857673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION invents evilfix. < 1237857674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((5+7)*4)/(1*4)+3 < 1237857674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1237857677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3+1*4/~4*5+7 < 1237857683 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1237857686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal_, Islandic is very different from other Scandinavian languages in fact. The place have been a lot more isolated, thus the language developed in a different directly < 1237857689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :direction* < 1237857691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's right-to-left associative infix, but OP~ reverses the argument order. < 1237857701 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like my specification for vectoring in INTERCAL? < 1237857746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-apl-715.html <-- random garbage? < 1237857754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't even look like APL < 1237857756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: get fonts. < 1237857761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also maybe wron gencoding < 1237857762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1237857763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like iso < 1237857767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think encoding fails < 1237857805 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also look at the comments on that beer program, for better lisibility < 1237857861 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I defined the VECTOR operator now, which is used for doing some weird kind of vector computing (not quite) < 1237857878 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also defined the commands for dynamically writing the source-codes < 1237857921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, couldn't this be done with CREATE? < 1237857968 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CREATE is used to modify the compiler that compiles source-code into byte-code. But the APPEND is used to add source-code to the end, which is then compiled. < 1237857983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I meant ick style CREATE < 1237857987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not CLC style CREATE < 1237858012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's quite different < 1237858027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1237858033 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLCLC-INTERCAL doesn't use ick style create except in compatibility mode, so you need new commands and operators if you want to use it outside of compatibility mode < 1237858042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1237858052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I have ick here but not CLC < 1237858070 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can still access the manual for CLC even if you don't have it. < 1237858074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, any chance of seeing an IFFI for CLCLC? :D < 1237858086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess it would be too hard < 1237858088 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's an IFFI? < 1237858108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, ais523's ick<->befunge thingy < 1237858121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IFFI is the name of the fingerprint on the befunge side < 1237858134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only current implementation is for ick and cfunge < 1237858146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it could be done between other implementations too I guess < 1237858155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses the link in C code thingy of ick < 1237858159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that implementation < 1237858189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it should be possible to do it against other befunge and INTERCAL implementations < 1237858194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see the ick docs for details < 1237858234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, btw I'm the maintainer of cfunge in case you try it and run into issues with that part. (also time to release the next version soon, probably next week or so) < 1237858250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(need to merge in some experimental branches) < 1237858255 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But someone suggested making some weird vector computing in CLCLC-INTERCAL, so I wrote that part of the specification now. Do you like the way I have done it? < 1237858267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, it is rather intercalish < 1237858289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a raytracer in j would be awesome < 1237858308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, and I suspect you now INTERCAL way better than I do. (I only know it on the surface and have trouble reading programs in it) < 1237858311 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It certainly is rather intercalish! < 1237858323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I'm not sure how it works though < 1237858340 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have a specific question please ask! < 1237858365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, is it somewhat like the zip operation or more like fold? < 1237858369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a zipfold? < 1237858370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1237858421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: have you ever programmed in J? I think you'd like it. http://jsoftware.com/ < 1237858427 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could use it to zip or fold or zipfold, but that isn't what the operator does on its own < 1237858430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an APL descendent based on vector/matrix operations < 1237858433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with really short code < 1237858442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could get some ideas for the vector intercal from it; it's pretty esoteric < 1237858446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, where does one get a free implementation of it? < 1237858453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or where did you get your? < 1237858454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://jsoftware.com/stable.htm < 1237858460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not open source, but meh. < 1237858471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, freeware? < 1237858473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1237858477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1237858552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If used in an expression on the left side of a WHILE statement, it will execute the WHILE statement for each pair of one element from the left array and one element from the right array." < 1237858577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does this mean: (a b c) (1 2 3) -> (a 1) (b 2) (c 3)? < 1237858578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1237858589 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and the .# special register is an error if the indices are not the same. < 1237858593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does this mean: (a b c) (1 2 3) -> (a 1) (a 2) (a 3) (b 1) (b 2) ... < 1237858603 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The second one. < 1237858618 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what are the best words to make that clear? < 1237858625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, so combinations? < 1237858629 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It means! < 1237858631 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Night < 1237858635 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's it < 1237858642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or permutations? < 1237858645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, night < 1237858645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1237858647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, ^ < 1237858648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1237858650 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1237858663 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Taking mistabcompleting to a new level < 1237858666 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1237858700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, so it combines the list in all possible ways? < 1237858711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1237858720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without caring about order possibly < 1237858753 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it combines the list in all possible ways. The #0 index corresponds to the current element, while .# is a number of the current index but only if both indices are the same. Otherwise it is an error. < 1237858773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1237858774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1237858780 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does it in the proper order given. So reversing the operands will change the order a bit < 1237858815 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I gave four examples and told you which ones are errors < 1237858816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, would the example (a b c) (1 2 3) -> (a 1) (a 2) (a 3) (b 1) (b 2) ... include (1 b) (1 c) and such as well? < 1237858826 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it wouldn't. < 1237858829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1237858921 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example you could have DO .1 <- ',1 SUB #0'~',2 SUB #0' DO READ OUT .1 < 1237858927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How to allow division by zero: disallow multiplication by zero. < 1237858937 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would output the result of selecting from each possible pair. < 1237858968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err *reads* < 1237858971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1237858983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, didn't you forget VECTOR in there? < 1237859008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was that not supposed to be a VECTOR example? < 1237859010 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The commands I listed have to be part of a subroutine called with VECTOR. Otherwise ,1 SUB #0 is an error. < 1237859018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1237859024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1237859024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You should post CLCLC-INTERCAL to alt.lang.intercal; most/all intercal programmers read it < 1237859059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm how would that work with division by zero? < 1237859077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, you can't check if the result is right, so people have to trust whatever you say the result is :P < 1237859117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting, I just found out that TI-83+ evaluates while it parses < 1237859123 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you could also have DO .# WHILE ,1 SUB #0 <- ',1 SUB .#'~',2 SUB ".#~#45"' < 1237859126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple: 0^-1 )) < 1237859134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gave division by zero instead of syntax error < 1237859137 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eviluation < 1237859165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, err? too tired to work that out < 1237859199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: did you read what i said about j? < 1237859207 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still you have to use the DO .# etc also inside of a subroutine called using VECTOR operator. < 1237859227 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I read it and maybe I will look more later, but not right now. < 1237859245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm does INTERCAL have a COME TO yet? < 1237859267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it doesn't, it must be invented, and "COME TO YOUR SENSES" must work. < 1237859275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1237859285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about GO FROM as well < 1237859304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1237859310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GO FROM _ PASSING _ ON YOUR WAY TO _ < 1237859312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1237859329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GO DIRECTLY TO JAIL DO NOT COLLECT 200 POUNDS < 1237859330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for multi jump non-local control transfer < 1237859331 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, what does GO FROM _ PASSING _ ON YOUR WAY TO _ command do? < 1237859337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, I missed do not pass go < 1237859377 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I fixed a mistake in my specification, the two sides of VECTOR do not have to be the same data-type but they must point to two different arrays. < 1237859396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, GO FROM 12 PASSING 15 ON YOUR WAY TO 23 would be like COME FROM 12, then executing line 15 and then jumping to line 23. < 1237859400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1237859413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's boring < 1237859414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it could be written anywhere in the program < 1237859416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do that already < 1237859439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what if you use this to modify inside syslib to create a debug hook < 1237859449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can you already do what you asy < 1237859452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just shorthand < 1237859454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that executes a line to print a debug message < 1237859457 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course you can do that already, and if you want the syntax you have to define it yourself using CREATE < 1237859459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well true :/ < 1237859501 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GO FROM 12 PASSING 15 ON YOUR WAY TO 23: Come from 12, make multiple copies of the universe, jumping to a random label in each, until one of them passes 15 and gets to 23, then destroy the rest :) < 1237859505 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reason the arrays in VECTOR can be different type is in case you want to use the () array in a vector calculator < 1237859517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : GO DIRECTLY TO JAIL DO NOT COLLECT 200 POUNDS <-- COME DIRECTLY FROM JAIL DO COLLECT 90.7 kg < 1237859545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: reference fail ;_; < 1237859547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal_, niceer! < 1237859552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nicer* < 1237859554 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, jumping to a random label is probably pretty useless, especially if you include syslib.i... < 1237859560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes I know about monopoly < 1237859569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I was just twisting it < 1237859607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, of course I know about the game monopoly... do you think I'm living under a rock or something? < 1237859613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1237859631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no, just a stone, not a rock < 1237859689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, crazy idea: i18n and l10n for intercal < 1237859703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the source code < 1237859711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all user interface would still be as now < 1237859713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1237859744 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. The way to do it is to create a file that uses CREATE and CREMATE/DESTROY in order to change the words used into Klingon instead of English < 1237859782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, would that work for non-ASCII scripts? < 1237859787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unicode and such < 1237859799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : q: 1872389457344365238764523486521345 < 1237859799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 2 < 1237859803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(prime factors function) < 1237859803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KOM FRÅN 23 < 1237859806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a ripoff :D < 1237859816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: klingon is in ascii now/ < 1237859816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err? < 1237859817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1237859822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no it isn't < 1237859825 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works for EBCDIC only, even if the source-code is ASCII. < 1237859833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:55 zzo38: OK. The way to do it is to create a file that uses CREATE and CREMATE/DESTROY in order to change the words used into Klingon instead of English < 1237859834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:56 AnMaster: zzo38, would that work for non-ASCII scripts? < 1237859835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, oh my < 1237859877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, I don't think Swedish ÅÄÖåäö exists in EBCDIC. So that wouldn't just work in that case < 1237859885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about UTF-EBCDIC though? < 1237859887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that exists iirc < 1237859893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be twisted enough < 1237859907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTF-EBCDIC < 1237859920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, would that work? < 1237859934 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you can use UTF-EBCDIC, even if the source-code is in normal Unicode. But CREATE uses EBCDIC numbers for syntax, not ASCII numbers, even if the source-code file isn't EBCDIC. < 1237859975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, bottom line: how would it work out for Swedish åäö and ÅÄÖ? < 1237859980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or other unicode chars < 1237860027 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes that UTF-EBCDIC would work if the compiler supported UTF-EBCDIC, the only thing is that the single-byte part will use the CLC non-standard EBCDIC instead. But the rest can still be the same as normal UTF-EBCDIC < 1237860082 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should work OK if the compiler supports it < 1237860104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh nice < 1237860132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, haven't come up with anything for front tracking yet? < 1237860166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I think it should be one word like either backtracking/fronttracking of back-tracking/front-tracking < 1237860181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1237860183 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not yet, but I am thinking about it. I read some of the ideas and am thinking about those things as well for front-tracking. But whatever is decided, the LIFE register will be for front-tracking what the CHOICE register is for back-tracking. < 1237860184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ehird may have some good language reason to suggest otherwise < 1237860184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I specified front tracking < 1237860186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we all agreed it was good < 1237860187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1237860195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fronttracking < 1237860199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w/ < 1237860199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1237860212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nothing at http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/CLCLC-INTERCAL#Front-tracking yet < 1237860219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah well read the logs :D < 1237860250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, what is atomic intercal about? < 1237860265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :concurrency or as opposed to quantum one? < 1237860281 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something I found on the newsgroup, I think. They didn't describe it very well either. < 1237860301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, what would it mean roughly? < 1237860367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, "SNIDEWARDS"? < 1237860393 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess atomic intercal would be something like http://groups.google.com/group/alt.lang.intercal/browse_thread/thread/ed3506f631c7a0ef/9066b786b791bed2?hl=en&q=atomic+intercal#9066b786b791bed2 (but not completely like that, I will base it on that though) < 1237860529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, ah so it isn't related to atomic like Compare and Swap, Fetch and Add and such then? < 1237860531 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another message about atomic INTERCAL is at http://groups.google.com/group/alt.lang.intercal/browse_thread/thread/e34f20de1880b81b/5a50f350727415a6?hl=en&q=atomic+intercal#5a50f350727415a6 (and I will base it partly on that as well) < 1237860548 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't related to that. < 1237860587 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course I can make some combination of the two proposals, but not quite. < 1237860640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://femto.picoup.com/ < 1237860645 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first two results of http://groups.google.com/groups/search?hl=en&q=atomic+intercal&qt_s=Search+Groups describe atomic INTERCAL, but in different ways. < 1237860680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, same poster? < 1237860785 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's http://femto.picoup.com/ that doesn't make much sense it tell me the username it already has is invalid because it is too long, what? < 1237860826 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the user accounts are shared between that and the main site, picoup.com. < 1237860836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it's a twitter clone except you can only use one letter < 1237860854 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And snidewards is based on something from this IRC channel, someone suggested what snidewards should mean < 1237860888 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using only one letter, can kanji or katakana be used though? < 1237860897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1237860943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://s3.amazonaws.com/twitpic/photos/large/3980319.jpg?AWSAccessKeyId=0ZRYP5X5F6FSMBCCSE82&Expires=1237858432&Signature=5RCJ9YMQiLmBaU%2FwdAY%2F0d%2FmmQw%3D < 1237860957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, http://femto.picoup.com/ is insane < 1237860958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1237860959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1237860986 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1237861140 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1237861610 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :好 < 1237861931 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Japanese. < 1237861961 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Racist. < 1237861991 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like saying 'a' is English. < 1237862025 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's not exclusively Japanese, like I thought. < 1237862080 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Proclamation of invalidity!" < 1237862097 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very few kanjis are exclusively japanese < 1237862117 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc there're some that went out of use in Chinese, and a couple that were actually invented in Japan < 1237862151 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, apparently "hundreds" rather than "couple" < 1237862186 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like 辻 < 1237862373 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@92.254.128.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1237862435 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :好 looks like it has two halves. < 1237862441 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does. < 1237862459 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're both pictograms - a woman on the left, a baby on the right. < 1237862498 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously, the character means "good" :) < 1237862533 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the Chinese character set is pro-life? < 1237862541 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1237862559 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is one of those halves a radical? < 1237862577 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both are radicals < 1237862592 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool. < 1237862602 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also both are characters on their own: -!- 40 - #not-math: ban %*!*@host86-175-32-*.wlms-broadband.com [by thermoplyae!i=thermo@cohomology.org, 1223818 secs ago] < 1237862605 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoops < 1237862611 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not a character :) < 1237862666 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament keeps trying to speak Chinese, but e keeps ending up banning people instead. < 1237862775 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant 女 and 子 < 1237862801 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woman, child < 1237862927 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION frowns at screen's Unicode boochery. < 1237862955 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :screen -U < 1237862962 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using that. < 1237862977 0 :Asztal__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :term_charset = utf-8? < 1237862980 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It still doesn't work. < 1237862997 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If UTF-8 is as good as utf-8, I have that set. < 1237863010 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's bigger. < 1237863029 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sets it to utf-8 for the sake of... < 1237863040 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, it's utf-8 now. < 1237863040 0 :Asztal__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's also ^A :utf8 on on < 1237863051 0 :Asztal__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure what the second parameter is. < 1237863053 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chinese characters with pictographic explanations are really neat < 1237863057 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using two ons? < 1237863061 0 :Asztal__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it defaults to off, I think. < 1237863062 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like 安 "peace" : woman under a roof < 1237863065 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I set that. Nothing happened. < 1237863090 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did have :utf8 set before. < 1237863144 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then perhaps it's your terminal that's at fault. < 1237863177 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With my lŭck, the Eŝperanto charaĉters won't display properly eitĥer, despite the fact that they were not long ago. < 1237863203 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, broken. I don't know why screen behaves inconsistently. < 1237863209 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But eliminating screen from the chain fixes the problem. < 1237863215 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw. If it's any consolation, I see them fine. < 1237863222 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm aware of that. < 1237863228 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you are not. < 1237863228 0 :Asztal__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :screen -U only works when starting the screen, btw. < 1237863240 0 :Asztal__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not when reconnecting. < 1237863251 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So screen -U -d -r may not work as well as it could? < 1237863259 0 :Asztal__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Asztal < 1237863271 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try a new screen? < 1237863286 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll go ahead and try restarting irssi. < 1237863287 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1237863304 0 :kerlo!n=ihope@normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1237863314 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION dings < 1237863336 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is screen -U, detached and reattached with screen -U -d -r. < 1237863419 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :你好 < 1237863441 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many-circumflex test: âĉêĝĥîĵôŝûŵŷẑ < 1237863449 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both those displayed right, I think. < 1237863468 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The one on the right is the same woman-baby character; the one on the left is a radical to the left of something else. < 1237863506 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1237863620 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The man radical. < 1237863742 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the one on the left is composed of radicals 9, 42 and 14. < 1237863759 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't realize the radicals were numbered. < 1237863778 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean the numbers aren't obvious from the shapes? < 1237865035 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-57-99.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1237865157 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1237865289 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1237865319 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-96-16.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1237865594 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1237867852 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1237868371 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-123-100.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1237869739 0 :pikhq_!n=pikhq@r03jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1237870773 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1237872683 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1237878817 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1237880883 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1237880886 0 :Asztal!n=moo@chunkybacon.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1237881599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1237881600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1237882957 0 :mtve-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :mtve < 1237883367 0 :pikhq_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :pikhq < 1237883386 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is still known as fizzie < 1237887014 0 :tombom!i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1237887605 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"X-Chat -> http://xchat.org <- At least when I quit I don't look like a lamer" < 1237892643 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=BeholdMy@smartskola.botkyrka.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1237893338 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1237895526 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1237897308 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1237898616 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-126-69.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1237899582 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1237899619 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1237900271 0 :neldoret1!n=user@81-223-127-237.stpeter.xdsl-line.inode.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1237900980 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1237908761 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Useful! http://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Maxsteele2 this seems kind of pointless < 1237909134 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1237911076 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1237913432 0 :neldoreth!n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth JOIN :#esoteric < 1237913441 0 :neldoret1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1237913511 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.128 JOIN :#esoteric < 1237913583 0 :FireyFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1237914013 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1237914110 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.128 JOIN :#esoteric < 1237914196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:32:41 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Useful! http://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:Contributions/Maxsteele2 this seems kind of pointless < 1237914199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1237914206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1237914233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION continues drafting shell language < 1237914249 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ehird < 1237914312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:40:59 they're both pictograms - a woman on the left, a baby on the right. < 1237914312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:41:38 obviously, the character means "good" :) < 1237914314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1237914443 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-6-34.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1237914452 0 :ais523_!i=93bc93e6@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-79c20b5bb430e39b JOIN :#esoteric < 1237914511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Or even how to implement Haskell's ap/<*> (translated painstakingly to Java) in terms of fmap, return, and join (this is legally considered torture in 49 states)" < 1237915696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Haskell's purity reminds me of lemon juice: you need to add lots of water, sugar and ice to make refreshing lemonade." —Guido van Rossum < 1237915697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION rolleyes < 1237915981 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1237916057 0 :ais523__!n=ais523@147.188.254.128 JOIN :#esoteric < 1237916140 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523___ < 1237916146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1237916159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://vimeo.com/3753964 <-- this is awesome < 1237916171 0 :ais523__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523___: that's evil < 1237916179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1237916181 0 :ais523__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523 < 1237916201 0 :ais523___!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :comex < 1237916283 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ap/<*> < 1237916284 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that? < 1237916350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two operators < 1237916355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enter #haskell < 1237916508 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1237916518 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like that sound thingy < 1237916590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Theory: < 1237916597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hello, world!" is common among great programmers. < 1237916609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Paula Bean is brillant^U Hello, !" is common among bad programmers. < 1237916620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore, good programmers are altruists. < 1237916863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/^ Hel/"Hel/ < 1237916866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was bugging me. < 1237916888 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, does ^ match a control-U? < 1237916902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Control-U deletes up to the start of line. < 1237916907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try it in your terminal. < 1237916920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opposite of control-k. < 1237916926 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ok < 1237916936 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably a readline thing, rather than a terminal thing, though < 1237917048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. < 1237917232 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1237917243 0 :FireyFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1237917341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. It's Ada Lovelace day. < 1237917376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/659752/programming-challenge-can-you-code-a-hello-world-program-as-a-palindrome <-- Hooray, shitty brainfuck answer. < 1237917392 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Killed by ballard.freenode.net (Nick collision) < 1237917412 0 :FireyFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1237917437 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1237917488 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only use the term "a language that shall not be named" in speech, it seems silly to use it in writing. < 1237917502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: people are afraid of saying 'fuck' < 1237917505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/shrug < 1237917509 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: does IRC count as speech or writing? < 1237917518 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC counts as writing. < 1237917523 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, can't you just bowdlerise it to B****fuck? < 1237917546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :-D < 1237917574 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can bowdlerise it to "B****fuck", "Brainf***", "B****f***", or whatever you want, in writing, but in writing I prefer to use the proper word "Brainfuck". < 1237917576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to remember asking people to bowlderise my brainfuck compiler "Frainbuck" as "F****buck" < 1237917618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Valid is subjective - maybe 'valid' to cobbal is 'compiles, runs, and produces expected output' – Erik (Mar 19 at 0:22) < 1237917621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Valid is subjective? < 1237917622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously? < 1237917627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have these people read the C standard? < 1237917645 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also consider leaving a voice-message in morse code as being close enough to writing as well, even though it isn't. < 1237917666 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, the C standard doesn't define "valid" < 1237917673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it defines what a c program is < 1237917674 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it defines "conforming", and "strictly conforming" < 1237917678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1237917682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conforming = runs on at least one C implementation < 1237917686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1237917693 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strictly conforming = runs on all strictly conforming C implementations < 1237917699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the OhCrap c compiler: Try gcc. If that fails, run perl. < 1237917707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All perl programs are now conforming C programs < 1237917708 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so to be conforming, you just mustn't do anything that's strictly banned in C < 1237917724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: not if they started #error "This is not a conforming C program" < 1237917725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, a c implementation can be other things too at the same time < 1237917728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, true < 1237917734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, there you go < 1237917737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amusingly, #error is the only thing actually guaranteed to screw up your program in C < 1237917742 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything else can be treated as an extension < 1237917788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/659752/programming-challenge-can-you-code-a-hello-world-program-as-a-palindrome/661121#661121 < 1237917789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woah. < 1237917817 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print "Hello, world!\n" # "n\!dlrow ,olleH" tnirp < 1237917841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that linked program is impressive < 1237917870 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, if they're adding a no-comments rule, use a string literal or something instead of comments < 1237917904 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it seems that in FlogScript a palindrome "Hello World" program can be written {Hello World}P.P}dlroW olleH{ but I don't know whether or not it would be cheating < 1237918001 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I can do it in one byte in HQ9+ < 1237918001 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's palindromic < 1237918003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION works out one < 1237918019 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are BF and Befunge examples already on the thread < 1237918038 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well ya that's because HQ9+ is designed for making those three kinds of programs in 1 byte. It is not meant for anything else < 1237918069 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, someone did the HQ9+ already < 1237918191 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can probably do it in Forth also because you can redefine words after they are used to not output anything or be a error < 1237918250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1237918252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I almost have a nice one < 1237918266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without cheating < 1237918288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, in HQ9+? < 1237918291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no :) < 1237918299 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What program language? < 1237918312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ruby; it has some syntactic sugar which helps for this < 1237918330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the code that actually outputs hello world: < 1237918330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::Hello.display&?,.chr.display&?\s.chr.display&:world.display&?!.chr.display&?\n.chr.display < 1237918335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty scary < 1237918355 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Befunge is too easy for that < 1237918370 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: well, obviously < 1237918377 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in goruby I also think it is 1 byte and therefore a palindrome < 1237918378 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And any other interpreted language which doesn't do any static checking < 1237918385 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is to tell if anything in particular in a befunge program is a comment or not < 1237918389 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I don't know how many such languages there actually are) < 1237918401 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goruby is some Japanese stuff. < 1237918413 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, so if we said that we have to execute the whole thing... < 1237918422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruby is some japanese stuff < 1237918423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1237918430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goruby is just a weird ruby addon that for some reason is in the ruby 1.9 core < 1237918441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's used for anarchy golf and nothing else < 1237918470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1237918470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1237918472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yalpsid.rhc.n\\?&yalpsid.rhc.!?&yalpsid.dlrow:&yalpsid.rhc.s\\?&yalpsid.rhc.,?&yalpsid.olleH:" < 1237918475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that .n\ is invalid < 1237918485 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Searching goruby on Google results in Japanese stuff. Luckily I have Japanese fonts on my computer < 1237918485 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem doesn't ask for a newline < 1237918491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the !? is invalid, but ?& is valid, but the yalpsid after isn't valid < 1237918494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wants you to print exactly Hello, World < 1237918496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the s\\ has the same problem < 1237918503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alsoa < 1237918508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the current solutions print the newline < 1237918510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, capital W < 1237918520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever :P < 1237918554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm pretty sure it's actually a palindrome. What's the easiest way to check?' < 1237918556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/facepalm < 1237918566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh Stack Overflow... < 1237918569 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And stuff about FlogScript can also be found in Japanese at http://b.hatena.ne.jp/yshl/20080407 < 1237918576 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a"!dlrow olleH"bk,,kb"Hello world!"a@ <- whole thing is executed < 1237918587 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looking through GolfScript, it can clearly be beaten < 1237918593 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: what's doing the printing there? < 1237918594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yshl is one of the anarchy golf players < 1237918597 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: k, < 1237918599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so unsurprising < 1237918614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, Funge-98 < 1237918632 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then why haven't they added FlogScript to anarchy golf yet? < 1237918633 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, is that palindromic? < 1237918638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have a @ at the end but not the start < 1237918644 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, good point < 1237918650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ask shinh < 1237918652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j: < 1237918652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1!:2&2['Hello, World'['dlroW ,olleH'[2&2:!1 < 1237918655 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, that might make it a bit tricky actually < 1237918656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's awesome, actually. < 1237918658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses K < 1237918660 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand a few things in Japanese, such as mahjong, and I like to read Japanese Akagi manga < 1237918660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in the k operator < 1237918670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: shinh speaks english as far as I know < 1237918676 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to ask shinh before but I got no reply < 1237918678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1237918680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idle 37:46:18... < 1237918775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woo, almost < 1237918991 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1237918991 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And how many of you people understand any amount of Japanese at all anyways < 1237918997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq knows some, iirc. < 1237919002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er... SimonRC too? < 1237919010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sukoshi used to come here, I think she knew japanese < 1237919012 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know about 2 words of Japanese < 1237919014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant? < 1237919021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He was talking in japanese wasn't he < 1237919026 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Peace and Protection 4.22.2" < 1237919039 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know two words in japanese, sushi and sake < 1237919055 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very little < 1237919066 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: those are English words < 1237919072 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant japanese words that aren't in English < 1237919102 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand a few things in Japanese, such as kana script, some kanji, and some words as well. < 1237919166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. I'd like a visual language where (to ASCIIlate): < 1237919167 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it is even on my Wikipedia user page < 1237919167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : V----\ < 1237919167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Show | < 1237919169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | | < 1237919171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | | < 1237919173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : \----/ < 1237919175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a quine < 1237919181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., attach a show to itself < 1237919196 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't read kanji at all and I've forgotten most of the kana too < 1237919202 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That would be interesting, maybe you can write some more about it on esolang wiki < 1237919208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I will < 1237919226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1237919233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, Eval would be the same as Jump < 1237919288 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1237919293 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1237919298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm < 1237919309 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kana is not that hard. Kanji is harder but I know some, such as the numbers and a few others (such as person, water, center, wheel, and a few other ones also) < 1237919312 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1237919338 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have another question. Do you like my Wikipedia user page? < 1237919346 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1237919347 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not hard, no, but I just haven't used them enough to remember them < 1237919349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nice thing about graphical languages < 1237919353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that they're graphs. < 1237919354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the programs. < 1237919358 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1237919369 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a nasty thing about them too, as it makes the programs harder to transmit < 1237919369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it has a lot of userboxes. < 1237919379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: eh, just make a pastebin built in < 1237919385 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideally you have both a graphical version and a text representation of them < 1237919387 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have more userboxes < 1237919387 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And is there anything on my Wikipedia user page that you like or dislike or agree or disagree or neutral opinion < 1237919390 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: to the language? does that even make sense? < 1237919395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: to the editor < 1237919410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd put it on a pastebin as javascript < 1237919411 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I strongly disagree with the language == editor principle < 1237919418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: it's a graphical language... < 1237919422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you pretty much have to have that < 1237919434 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, why? < 1237919448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_o < 1237919449 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have a well-defined representation for transferring the language < 1237919455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that's bad < 1237919458 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and different programs that can each use them < 1237919461 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: why is that bad? < 1237919465 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :programs don't have to use it internally < 1237919469 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just as an interchange format < 1237919470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :textual languages don't define a graphical representation for viewing them < 1237919473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why compromise? < 1237919477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like this language would be popular < 1237919477 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: do you disagree with having separate keyboard layouts for English and Norwegian? < 1237919489 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: no < 1237919491 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or for that matter English and Chinese? < 1237919500 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree with having programs be able to read the keys without knowing the keyboard layout though < 1237919514 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what ehird's suggesting is that norwegian keyboards only work with norwegian IRC clients < 1237919523 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and english keyboards only work with english IRC clients < 1237919524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... no I'm not... < 1237919534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is officially a metaphor free zone < 1237919534 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :having something in between to translate the keystrokes makes much more sense < 1237919535 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And did you make any of your own userboxes? < 1237919537 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: keyboard is UI, editor is UI < 1237919538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you're all _terrible_ at it. < 1237919549 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: UI should be specifically designed for the task at hand < 1237919550 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: exactly < 1237919555 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and one language should allow multiple UIs < 1237919556 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly! < 1237919558 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what I@m saying < 1237919581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how you're disagreeing with me. < 1237919582 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it shouldn't matter which UI you used, the program should still work < 1237919586 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think we're all agreeing. < 1237919588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just saying that the UIs should paste to a pastebin. < 1237919591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To transfer them. < 1237919592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except < 1237919594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graphbin < 1237919603 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, interesting < 1237919604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And to edit them, you'd load it into one of the UIs. < 1237919616 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably this would work in a non-internet-connected way too < 1237919625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1237919630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're sharing a program < 1237919634 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interchange format doesn't have to be textual, presumably it would be whatever stream of bytes was sent to the pastebin to do the pasting < 1237919638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1237919642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :binary serialization, yes < 1237919653 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a common serialization's enough to keep me happy < 1237919666 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although having it human-readable and human-writable is always nice < 1237919684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think writing a complex graph textually is a recipe for disaster < 1237919697 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1237919701 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why you'd rarely edit by hand < 1237919702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, just use an online graph editor; if you're making a graphbin, adding editing facilities shouldn't be too hard < 1237919706 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: so all programming is a recipe for disaster? < 1237919710 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree! < 1237919713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: ;-) < 1237919716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most programs aren't directly graphs < 1237919720 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: please don't assume Internet connections < 1237919724 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have one most of the itme < 1237919726 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*time < 1237919731 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLEASE ASSUME INTERNET CONNECTIONS < 1237919740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: okay, so you get your programs off your HD or a disc, right? < 1237919741 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no way should a programming language care whether its user is internet-connected or not < 1237919743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so put the UI on that disc < 1237919748 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, that's fine < 1237919756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so there's no need for it to be human readable :-) < 1237919765 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, never a need < 1237919765 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you want, you can even look at my image directory storages http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/index.php/02/ < 1237919776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: a big advantage of binary: the parsing is much, much faster < 1237919805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I just can't play a game that doesn't have good graphics. My machine has one of the fastest and most expensive graphics cards for a reason, and you'd better use it if you expect me to like your game." < 1237919806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate people. < 1237919809 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a big disadvantage of binary: it tends to be corrupted in transit < 1237919816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: if you use Windows. < 1237919826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :binary is the same as text on all sane operating systems < 1237919827 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: or anyone between me and the program uses Windows < 1237919834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, so don't do that. Upload in binary mode. < 1237919836 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: not on the Internet, it isn't < 1237919836 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I prefer games with minimal graphics, regardless of graphics card. < 1237919839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or don't use Windows. < 1237919843 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: bigendian or littleendian? < 1237919852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1237919855 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :binary is much less standardised than text < 1237919862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :text is binary < 1237919863 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to mention things like bitwidths < 1237919867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything else, is madness < 1237919887 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you can still tell a text file from a binary file even on UNIX, though < 1237919894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only via heuristics, ais523_. < 1237919901 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1237919909 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I mean, although all UNIXes store text the same < 1237919912 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they store binary differently < 1237919927 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I especially like the mathNEWS covers. < 1237919937 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like the mathnews covers pictures? < 1237919937 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x12345678 can map to a different sequence of bytes on one computer than on another < 1237919943 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why text is used for information interchange < 1237919956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: just specify one in the serialization standard and stick to it < 1237919957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not hard < 1237919970 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd be surprised < 1237919987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never had a problem with it. Stop using non-unixes. :-) < 1237920017 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you're lucky to never have had a problem with it < 1237920024 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you exclusively use x86_64? < 1237920028 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, maybe that's why < 1237920031 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course with text files, there is UNIX line-endings and printer line-endings but many programs I have dealt with accept both < 1237920043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't use non-x86 processors, no. Though I have. < 1237920049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely FTP and HTTP and all handle this? < 1237920060 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with text, line endings are the only thing to worry about < 1237920063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, take image uploaders, ais523_ < 1237920064 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: they translate text files, but not binaries < 1237920068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They upload binary data over http < 1237920071 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Network line endings are printer line endings, as far as I know. < 1237920072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They never have endian issues < 1237920077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So...? < 1237920091 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: a lot of work goes into image formats < 1237920096 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically to prevent endian issues < 1237920111 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, they're well-designed < 1237920114 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not saying it's impossible < 1237920123 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to design a working binary format < 1237920127 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is very easy to mess up < 1237920149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can have a binary format that just uses ASCII chars, ais523_. < 1237920162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, most formats probably don't need more than the printable chars. < 1237920167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it would take the same amount of space. < 1237920171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably do that. < 1237920179 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, libpng has at least two functions that deal with endianness < 1237920184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The graphbin would of course translate it to some sort of Javascript data structure on viewing the graph, of course < 1237920189 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: there is one, ppm or something < 1237920301 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1237920312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://e-texteditor.com/blog/2009/opencompany This is cool < 1237920409 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1237920456 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer to run my businesses as if they were Free Software projects instead. But I have my own set of rules I use when running a business also < 1237920470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what businesses do you have < 1237920518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just got an idea < 1237920522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear. < 1237920545 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have any but I will start one in a few months. And of course I am still going to trademark stuff and make rules for when warranties are voided, but otherwise allow freedom. That means absolutely no patents. < 1237920548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since there are LISP machines, why aren't there machines? Or are there? < 1237920562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: There are in theory. < 1237920565 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: there's the Befunge CPU, but I don't know if it was ever built < 1237920574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just consider: APL machine < 1237920582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why should I consider that? < 1237920585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It isn't in the least interesting. < 1237920591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1237920601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, hm... < 1237920607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm < 1237920629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from lisp machines and befunge cpus, any other such special purpose ones? < 1237920631 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm < 1237920633 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1237920639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: >_< < 1237920648 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a BF one IIRC < 1237920666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireyFly, hm now that you mention it, it sounds slightly familiar < 1237920679 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some of my ideas are Canadian credit chip systems (with complete freedom and security), custom calendar service, game console system, books (with ForthBASIC programs that can run on game console system), and others. < 1237920696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Canadian credit chip systems" err target market? :D < 1237920710 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f = lambda x: x(x) < 1237920713 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f(f) < 1237920714 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaaaaaaaaaaaaaaah < 1237920722 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is testing Python's lambdas. < 1237920784 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I must say, doing the whole f(x) thing feels pretty weird for lambdas. < 1237920786 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Canadian credit chip systems are meant to be used in Canada obviously, possibly transitional, but can be used in other countries as well, in addition to being used for things other than credit chips. < 1237920806 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already wrote the protocols involved! < 1237920808 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are credit chips anyway? < 1237920814 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why Canada? < 1237920848 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Canada because I am Canadian. < 1237920849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw I assume you all noticed linux 2.6.29 was released yesterday < 1237920853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nordier.com/v7x86/ < 1237920853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also hi ais523_ < 1237920879 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I noticed it was released, but I noticed today not yesterday < 1237920882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I did not notice. < 1237920883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I also didn't care. < 1237920891 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if that counts as noticing it was released yesterday < 1237920900 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your sentence was ambiguous < 1237920927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are right, it was ambigious < 1237920953 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My service provider is Canadian so from that you can see that I am Canadian also. < 1237920956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, I'm currently compiling it (not on my main system though, I'm not that insane) < 1237921015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your isp is ... very 90s < 1237921016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"DCCNET is a unique state-of-the-art Internet service using the speed capabilities of your existing Cable TV Connection. With speeds up to 100 times faster than a telephone modem it's the best way of connecting to the Internet. " < 1237921030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Requirements for the Macintosh platform are: < 1237921030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* OS 8.1 or higher < 1237921031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Power PC 601 < 1237921033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* RAM 24 MB < 1237921035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* DISK 60MB* < 1237921048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you also need windows 98 and 32mb of ram and windows 98 or higher for windows :-D < 1237921063 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the Macintosh platform"? < 1237921067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1237921070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1237921073 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does OS 8.1 or higher include 10? < 1237921078 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, how? < 1237921083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1237921090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dccnet.com/delta/index.html < 1237921097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The site design includes 1997. < 1237921102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, probably not since Classic emulation support was dropped when Apple switched to Intel < 1237921103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, wait, more 1998 < 1237921116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dccnet.com/delta/images/contact3.jpg "Holy crap! A blank screen!" < 1237921118 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah 1998, the golden age of web design < 1237921142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, company still exists? < 1237921151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Considering that zzo38 is connected via them. < 1237921153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would assume so. < 1237921158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1237921160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:46 zzo38 has joined (n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com) < 1237921166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems so very outdated? < 1237921175 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're named after an IRC command? < 1237921184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You are so observant. < 1237921196 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The service providers are given before the command on each line. < 1237921200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://webmail.dccnet.com/scripts/webmail.exe < 1237921202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :webmail.exe < 1237921203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1237921208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet it's written in delphi < 1237921212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes I'm just surprised it isn't a left over web page of some company that went bust.. < 1237921221 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :webmail.exe is one of the more ridiculous filenames I've seen recently < 1237921228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: it just means < 1237921229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. windows server < 1237921230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. cgi < 1237921233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3. written in compiled language < 1237921238 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, does anyone here put the .exe suffix on UNIX executables? < 1237921244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some do. < 1237921247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes sense if you want a suffix < 1237921250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, sounds insane? < 1237921252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.exe doesn't mean PE, after all < 1237921252 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I used to use EXE for CGI scripts as well. But not anymore. All the EXE scripts you want to access on my web-site no longer work. I have written replacements for some of them in PHP. < 1237921255 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to back on UNIX, but don't nowadays on Linux < 1237921258 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and agreed < 1237921258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, true... but still < 1237921265 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.exe is a sane suffix if you're suffixing executables at all < 1237921265 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :call them .bat < 1237921266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the time you don't want a suffix < 1237921269 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for extra fun < 1237921272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://help.dccnet.com/ <-- hey, firefox < 1237921273 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just unix shells don't use implied suffices < 1237921274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 < 1237921278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're not _too_ behind < 1237921279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just very behind < 1237921283 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still often put the .sh extension on batch files < 1237921294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like how people have to manually tweak the spam folder < 1237921299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/folder/filter/ < 1237921301 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Warning: < 1237921303 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think PlayStation executables also use the .EXE extension < 1237921307 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The browser you are using is not supported. < 1237921315 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(warning from the student portal at my university) < 1237921320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, ls --color=auto uses file extensions on GNU/Linux systems. How usually depends on distro < 1237921323 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's amazing is the list of supported browsers < 1237921341 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, see for yourself, http://www.my.bham.ac.uk/cp/home/check/post?supported=false < 1237921345 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls --color=auto also uses the x permission. < 1237921358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: shit, they don't support leopard : - ( < 1237921361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow < 1237921361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mozilla suite < 1237921362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit < 1237921363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used that thing < 1237921366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in 2004 or so < 1237921370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, firefox 1.0.x? wow < 1237921371 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, and they support firefox 1 and firefox 1.5 < 1237921373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was better than firefox < 1237921375 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not firefox 2 or 3 < 1237921375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the time < 1237921383 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that error message I got on firefox 2 < 1237921394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :srsly though < 1237921397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who else used mozilla suite < 1237921399 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I think .exe are still used for Mono executables on Linux (but not sure) < 1237921402 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interestingly, they support MSIE-Windows but not MSIE-Mac < 1237921407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but really it is easy to forget to update such pages if you always use modern browsers < 1237921410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: MSIE-mac is totally separate < 1237921416 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1237921422 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still interesting, though < 1237921423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interestingly, it was altogther ok < 1237921424 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, back on the Limp interpreter :3 < 1237921427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i maen, to a point < 1237921436 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Internet Explorer 5.x (latest version), 6.0 SP2 and 7.0" < 1237921441 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know what's the limits on the names for defined funtions? < 1237921447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: ? < 1237921450 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the really really amusing thing is < 1237921455 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Python < 1237921457 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that on the computers here that use firefox < 1237921459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: wha < 1237921459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1237921465 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What can you name a defined function? < 1237921468 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of setting the homepage to bypass the check, or changing the check < 1237921468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1237921470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything < 1237921475 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even 1? < 1237921480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes... < 1237921480 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even a pre-existing function? < 1237921482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1237921483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1237921486 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they went and set the homepage to a page saying "please click continue on the next page" < 1237921486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are making no. sense. < 1237921491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: :D < 1237921491 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I not? < 1237921492 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which redirects to that page after about 5 seconds < 1237921503 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like if I want to do def print < 1237921507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't < 1237921509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print is a keyword < 1237921516 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I wanted to know! < 1237921522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have just TRIED < 1237921526 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way to check for keywords? < 1237921530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo < 1237921533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :u'll know if you use one < 1237921555 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant more of a function to check a string < 1237921568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1237921570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what on earth are you doing < 1237921572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds hideous < 1237921604 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, for the limp thingy, I want to rewrite the program in Python, since interpreting it directly looks like a pain < 1237921612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;;;;;;;_;;;;;;; < 1237921617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why can't you program < 1237921624 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I am bad :( < 1237921649 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like Python program language < 1237921655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not < 1237921662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please don't say because of the whitespace < 1237921672 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not too sure how to interpret it directly < 1237921686 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, the whitespace is a symptom, not the problem itself < 1237921703 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm very surprised the python interp doesn't error on indentation that isn't exactly 4 spaces, actually < 1237921723 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mildly annoying, as I still think Python's got one of the best mainstream OO implementations I've ever seen < 1237921737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :python OO is terrible < 1237921738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take it from me < 1237921744 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people like using two spaces < 1237921746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, heh < 1237921752 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the REPL, it's nice to use one space < 1237921753 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what don't you like about it? < 1237921755 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are various reasons I don't like Python. < 1237921756 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: you're missing the point < 1237921766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: it's just not good compared to a smalltalk derivative < 1237921769 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have a point < 1237921775 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, a REPL is a very good reason why whitespace is a bad idea, I didn't even think of that < 1237921777 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I said mainstream < 1237921779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, stop being RIGHT < 1237921780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1237921786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: ruby < 1237921791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is mainstream, and has a smalltalk-derived OO system < 1237921807 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've used python quite a lot and never had a problem with indentation. It's really not hard to use 4 spaces and not accidentally 5 or 3. < 1237921820 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Set your editor to enter 4 spaces when you press Tab, and you're done. < 1237921822 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: I've lost Python programs before due to accidentally corrupting the whitespace < 1237921827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm I think I read somewhere that Python is LL(1) to parse. I suck at parsers, so... how are LL and LR related? Can any LL grammar be parsed with a LR parser as well or? < 1237921832 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: you have special talents. < 1237921835 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: LL(1)'s less general < 1237921838 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a subset of LR(1) < 1237921852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: his main complaint is that entering a bf interp into bsmntbombdood involved exec'ing a large string with \n and spaces in < 1237921854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, I see. So it is technically even simpler to parse? < 1237921858 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1237921858 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ruby is ugly though :( < 1237921864 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I much prefer things like Forth, C, JavaScript, rather than Python. < 1237921864 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LR(1) is pretty complicated < 1237921875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Ruby is only ugly if you have a lot of nested blocks. < 1237921884 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: sigils! special syntax for exactly 1 HOF argument! begin/end! < 1237921890 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, LR(0) is simpler than LL(1), and LL(0)'s simpler still, although I think unusable for syntax much more complicated than deadfish's < 1237921899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. I rarely use sigils when coding ruby; also, they're not type sigils < 1237921902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. What? < 1237921905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1237921908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3. It's do/end, and you can use {/} if you want. < 1237921913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, what sort of grammar would Befunge be? < 1237921929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does the question even make sense? < 1237921944 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Befunge doesn't even have a grammar < 1237921948 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: oh, not HOF argument, just a block. There's definitely special syntax for passing one block. < 1237921955 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, maybe it counts as LL(0) < 1237921958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: You can only pass one block. < 1237921961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, hm ok < 1237921961 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very simple, one token = one command < 1237921964 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: how is that not a bug? < 1237921964 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and each command is one char long < 1237921968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's not too pure; but in practice, it works out just fine, lament. < 1237921979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And because there's not an easy way to get a nice syntax for multiple blocks; but I never need more, really. < 1237921982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, what about S-Expressions? < 1237921986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Generally if I need more I'm going about something the wrong way < 1237921995 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. < 1237922007 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the same logic "in practice it works out well" can be applied to Python or indeed anything else. < 1237922016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, even I could figure out how to parse that into a in memory tree with some rather basic code < 1237922042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Yes, but Ruby's code is generally cleaner, the OO is nicer, the limitations are generally due to bad code, etc. < 1237922048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. < 1237922071 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :subjective things < 1237922078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1237922079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, ? < 1237922082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm saying Ruby's OO is better. < 1237922087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You said Ruby is ugly. I replied why I think it isn't. < 1237922088 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and don't get me started on select/reject/inject/subject/surject/project. < 1237922088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Simple. < 1237922098 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ruby has *synonyms* for shit. < 1237922104 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's simply *dumb* < 1237922107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: So does Python. < 1237922115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll let you figure them out, though. < 1237922117 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruby has them as a matter of policy. It has a *lot* of them. < 1237922120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it does not. < 1237922122 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python has them as exceptions. < 1237922122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a few. < 1237922154 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I have written a proposal for a improved variant of JavaScript also. < 1237922177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1237922182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that related to ruby? < 1237922187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or python < 1237922190 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: please show lament some oepy < 1237922196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1237922206 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oepy is one of my favourite things of yours, just because it's so fun for showing to python fans < 1237922222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll dig it up < 1237922224 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: just using non-standard names for map and filter is a big warning sign < 1237922226 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, one python fan I know would rather make the lang Turing-incomplete than allow more than one way to do something < 1237922231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: "map" is the preferred name. < 1237922239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, select is preferred instead of filter; so fucking what? It's not relevant. < 1237922243 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means "WARNING! THIS LANGUAGE WAS DESIGNED BY PEOPLE WHO DON'T REALLY KNOW WHAT THEY'RE DOING" < 1237922249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, anyway what about parsing S-Expressions? Is it LL(1) or ? < 1237922251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was originally a lisp, lament < 1237922262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The preferred word for filter in Python is [x for x in list if f(x)] < 1237922265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's bloody non standard to me < 1237922266 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lisp has no problem with passing more than one closure to a function. < 1237922275 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes of course python programmers want bondage and discipline < 1237922281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're just trolling, lament; you haven't yet given decent answers to my questions < 1237922289 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1237922291 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did you ask? < 1237922301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o-o < 1237922319 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: sexp's certainly LR(0) (as is BF), I don't know if it's LL(1) as well < 1237922340 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LR(0) means that whenever you see a symbol, you know its context without any further information < 1237922346 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in sexp, ( always opens a sexp < 1237922350 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in BF, [ always opens a loop < 1237922352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong < 1237922353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"a(" < 1237922360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, ah ok. didn't you say LL(0) < LR(0) < LL(1) < LR(1)? < 1237922406 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What type of grammar would Forth be? Forth has no syntax or grammar as far as I know. < 1237922409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm does string prevent it being LR(0)? < 1237922415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: it has a trivial lexing grammer < 1237922418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*grammar < 1237922421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, separation by space < 1237922423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, well < 1237922423 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forth doesn't have a grammar < 1237922426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 2+ is valid forth < 1237922426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning 2 2 + < 1237922431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's an oddity < 1237922439 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only if the word 2+ is defined < 1237922444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1237922445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1237922445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1237922447 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: forth doesn't have a grammar, a "grammar" is something pre-defined < 1237922448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1237922449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in original forht, 2 2+ worked. < 1237922453 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it cannot change while you're reading the program. < 1237922454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: it is predefined < 1237922456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :space separation < 1237922459 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no it isn't. < 1237922463 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :learn Forth. < 1237922467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do know Forth. < 1237922470 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't. < 1237922481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, you can poke at the compiler's memory locations; that does not count. Also, fuck off with your blanket assertions, they're uninteresting. < 1237922496 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you know forth, i have to assume you're just trolling. < 1237922498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, so what about the "a(" thing ehird mentioned there? < 1237922524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: go on then — how do you change the parser to read other than space separated, without poking into memory? < 1237922526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll wait here. < 1237922551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: ais523_: http://pastie.org/425635.txt?key=12ziikqeeiprgcigklfoa An IRC bot written in Python, but as one big ugly expression. Completely whitespace-agnostic. No significant indentation < 1237922557 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: for example, by implementing something like the ( command. < 1237922564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: er? < 1237922566 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: which happens to be already implemented. < 1237922571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. And? < 1237922597 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: thanks < 1237922598 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to change the parser in Forth you will have to write your own parser and execute the new parser, then it will read the rest of the program using your own parser, when it is finished the old parser will resume but it won't do anything because there is nothing left to parse < 1237922606 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen oepy before, but I always like to see it again < 1237922607 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what zzo38 said. < 1237922609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I don't really count that as changing the parser < 1237922610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMo < 1237922611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO < 1237922621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just reading words from the input stream < 1237922626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not changing the parser, it's subverting it < 1237922635 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are a nut. < 1237922642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're a troll. < 1237922653 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It depends on the specific Forth implementation how the parser might be changed if it can be changed at all. < 1237922656 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can an op be a troll? < 1237922665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Have you ever _talked_ to lament? < 1237922665 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1237922674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, he admits to being a troll about a third of the time. < 1237922696 0 :oepy!n=oepy@91.105.69.189 JOIN :#esoteric < 1237922699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*echo echo—echo— echo— < 1237922700 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo—echo— echo— < 1237922708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*rot13 qwertyuiop! < 1237922709 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :djreglhvbc! < 1237922712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*help < 1237922713 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmd, echo, epy, help, rot13 < 1237922720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*epy 2/0 < 1237922720 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZeroDivisionError: integer division or modulo by zero < 1237922750 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*epy (lambda x: x(x))(lambda x: x(x)) < 1237922750 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RuntimeError: maximum recursion depth exceeded in cmp < 1237922752 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am in the process of writing IRC bot as well, called pocket monster IRC. It allows you to play pocket monster IRC < 1237922756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cmd hello s('Hello, world!') < 1237922760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hello < 1237922760 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KeyError: "s('Hello," < 1237922763 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I used PHP instead < 1237922764 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, you mean it doesn't tail-recurse? fail. < 1237922767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lol vut. < 1237922786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, seriously, what? < 1237922789 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, it seems oepy can execute an infinite loop in well under 6 seconds < 1237922789 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523_ < 1237922799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: python isn't tail rec- < 1237922803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you saying hi, oepy? < 1237922804 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ehird < 1237922806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, in /msg? < 1237922808 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? it should be < 1237922814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1237922817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: it should be, but it isn't, because recursion is discouraged. < 1237922822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're meant to use loops. < 1237922829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's insane < 1237922833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like Python, see. I just think the criticism of it is mostly discouraged. < 1237922834 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...I thought Python was meant to be multi-paradigm? < 1237922836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: About as insane as C. < 1237922841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, most other languages. < 1237922844 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or can't it be, without giving more than one way to do things? < 1237922850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yes, but GCC can optimise tail recursion < 1237922851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1237922854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scheme is the only language that _specifies_ TCO. < 1237922857 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the C standard doesn't require tail recursion, but doesn't forbid it either < 1237922858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well true < 1237922859 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oepy also sent a "hi" message to me, privately, when I sent CTRL+A VERSION < 1237922859 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi zzo38 < 1237922863 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and many good languages do < 1237922864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about common lisp? < 1237922866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1237922867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes, it specifies all tail call optimizations, not just recursion) < 1237922869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No. < 1237922877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Many Common Lisps overflow the stack on tail recursion. < 1237922879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also erlang specifies TCO I'm pretty sure < 1237922880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most, even. < 1237922885 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ocaml specifies tail-recursive implementations of its stdlib < 1237922888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about haskell? < 1237922890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((Erlang has a spec?)) < 1237922894 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl has an explicit tail-recursion operator < 1237922900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: haskell gets it implicitly from laziness < 1237922901 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which just to confuse people, is called goto < 1237922909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (match(r':([^!]+)\S* PRIVMSG ((oepy) .*|(#esoteric) :.*oepy.*)', txt), (lambda a, _, b, c: < 1237922909 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ehird < 1237922909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (lambda x: socket.send('PRIVMSG %s :%s\r\n' % x))( < 1237922912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : {'oepy': (a, 'hi'), '#esoteric': ('#esoteric', 'hi '+a)}[b or c] < 1237922912 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ehird < 1237922913 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who is oepy anyways < 1237922913 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi zzo38 < 1237922914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ) < 1237922915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : )), < 1237922917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oepy: hi < 1237922918 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ehird < 1237922920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oepy: hi < 1237922920 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ehird < 1237922921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: http://pastie.org/425635.txt?key=12ziikqeeiprgcigklfoa < 1237922922 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's a different goto from standard C/BASIC goto < 1237922925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a python irc bot, BUT < 1237922925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's written in one line < 1237922927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1237922930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not one line < 1237922931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but one expression < 1237922933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's whitespace insensitive < 1237922939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote it to kill the people who think python is whitespace sensitive :-D < 1237922944 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :FireFly < 1237922953 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: submit it to proggit < 1237922961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I might < 1237922961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes it does iirc < 1237922965 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, I'd like to see what arguments result < 1237922995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sec, need to fix my *cmd invokation < 1237923000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cmd hello s("Hello, world!") < 1237923003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hello < 1237923004 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KeyError: 's("Hello,' < 1237923007 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it looks for a PRIVMSG command containing the string "oepy"? Is that correct? < 1237923007 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi zzo38 < 1237923009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See? Makes no sense. I wonder what. < 1237923014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: That's what makes it say hi, yes. < 1237923018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does other stuff too; see the code. < 1237923024 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, I have an idea < 1237923027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including run one-expression Python, help, rot13, echo, and defining your own commands. < 1237923032 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cmd hello s("Hello,_world1") < 1237923037 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hello < 1237923037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait < 1237923038 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KeyError: 's("Hello,_world1")' < 1237923043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: nope, here's what you need to do < 1237923056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*epy set('hello', lambda: s('Hello, world!')) < 1237923057 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TypeError: () takes exactly 0 arguments (2 given) < 1237923061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er. < 1237923063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :second. < 1237923070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*epy set(hello=lambda: s('Hello, world!')) < 1237923070 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : at 0x2433f0> < 1237923073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cmd hello hello < 1237923076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hello < 1237923076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes erlang does. I can only find an old draft of it with google though < 1237923076 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NameError: global name 's' is not defined < 1237923082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahah < 1237923083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1237923101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, http://erlang.org/download/erl_spec47.ps.gz but there are newer versions. Just no idea where.. < 1237923107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*epy set(hello=lambda: 1/0) < 1237923108 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : at 0x2439b0> < 1237923110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hello < 1237923111 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZeroDivisionError: integer division or modulo by zero < 1237923115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. < 1237923131 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*epy quit < 1237923131 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use quit() or Ctrl-D (i.e. EOF) to exit < 1237923141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, shit, I forgot to remove that :-D < 1237923148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*epy set(hello=(lambda ss: lambda: ss('Hello, world!'))(s)) < 1237923149 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NameError: name 's' is not defined < 1237923153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay wut < 1237923157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s should be defined < 1237923157 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*epy quit() < 1237923157 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1237923159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in the epy scope < 1237923160 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a realy brilliant response for the bot to come up with, though < 1237923161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: >:E < 1237923162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't do that < 1237923163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ((Erlang has a spec?)) <-- I answered but you ignored what I said? < 1237923167 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :truly brilliant < 1237923170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, why ask? < 1237923174 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now fix it if there is security holes or whatever in oepy < 1237923177 0 :oepy!n=oepy@91.105.69.189 JOIN :#esoteric < 1237923178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: there are. < 1237923182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are pretty much unfixable < 1237923186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :python isn't designed for sandboxing < 1237923199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooooooooh < 1237923202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s is the wrong thing < 1237923207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*epy set(hello=lambda: pr('Hello, world!')) < 1237923208 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : at 0x23e2b0> < 1237923208 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's a python-sandboxer script in Battle for Wesnoth < 1237923209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cmd hello hello < 1237923213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hello < 1237923213 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, world! < 1237923214 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for running AIs safely < 1237923234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, *shrug* I see you asked without being interested in the answer. < 1237923237 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it seems *cmd has one level of indirection too many < 1237923246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It was a wondering; just shaddup < 1237923248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: no, it's intentional < 1237923255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I forget why < 1237923273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*epy set(echoecho=lambda a: (pr(a), pr(a))) < 1237923273 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : at 0x23eb70> < 1237923275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cmd echoecho echoecho < 1237923277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*echoecho < 1237923277 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, why can't python be sandboxed? < 1237923278 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TypeError: () takes exactly 1 argument (0 given) < 1237923279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*echoecho a < 1237923280 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a, a) < 1237923285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: it's not that simple < 1237923295 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, why isn't it simple? < 1237923299 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not saying "do it" < 1237923306 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm saying "what architectural decisions lead to it being hard" < 1237923314 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1237923314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: come back to me when you have a C program that runs another C program safely < 1237923315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck < 1237923315 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, my question wasn't rhetorical < 1237923317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*epy set(echoecho=lambda a: a+a) < 1237923318 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : at 0x2425f0> < 1237923319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*echoecho eccccccccchoooooo < 1237923320 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'eccccccccchooooooeccccccccchoooooo' < 1237923324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooh < 1237923326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is quite possible... < 1237923326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pr() is a class < 1237923327 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: just write a C interp < 1237923328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that stringifies as itself < 1237923333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, just not in *ANSI C* < 1237923334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I am not writing a goddamn python interp. < 1237923337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*epy set(echoecho=lambda a: pr(a+a)) < 1237923338 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : at 0x242c30> < 1237923341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Not a solution. < 1237923343 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no, you have one already < 1237923349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*echoecho AAA < 1237923349 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAA < 1237923352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*echoecho AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1237923352 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1237923354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*echoecho AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1237923354 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1237923359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*echoecho oepy < 1237923360 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oepyoepy < 1237923360 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ehird < 1237923392 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1237923408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there are ways to sandbox a compiled C program, or any binary < 1237923410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even static ones < 1237923420 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*echoecho *echoecho < 1237923420 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*echoecho*echoecho < 1237923421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc debian has a new fakeroot version that uses ptrace < 1237923422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's unrelated < 1237923440 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*echoecho *echoecho < 1237923440 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TypeError: () takes exactly 1 argument (2 given) < 1237923442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is safe execution of another C program as far as I can see.. < 1237923451 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*echoecho *echoecho *echoecho < 1237923451 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TypeError: () takes exactly 1 argument (2 given) < 1237923452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is it unrelated? < 1237923454 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*echoecho *echoecho *echoecho < 1237923454 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TypeError: () takes exactly 1 argument (2 given) < 1237923454 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*echoecho < 1237923454 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TypeError: () takes exactly 1 argument (0 given) < 1237923460 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*echoecho echoecho < 1237923460 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echoechoechoecho < 1237923468 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's something up with the parsing... < 1237923471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No there isn't. < 1237923476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arguments separate on space. < 1237923482 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*echoecho *echoecho < 1237923483 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*echoecho*echoecho < 1237923487 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ok < 1237923494 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 must have written two spaces by mistake < 1237923495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sec: < 1237923504 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: your bot is whitespace-sensitive, something's gone wrong here... < 1237923509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*epy set(echoecho=lambda *a: (lambda x: pr(x+x))(' '.join(a))) < 1237923510 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : at 0x24cc70> < 1237923512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*echoecho a b c < 1237923512 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a b ca b c < 1237923531 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it allows spaces < 1237923539 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*echoecho *echoecho < 1237923539 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*echoecho*echoecho < 1237923546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Yes it does < 1237923546 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*echoecho *echoecho  < 1237923547 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*echoecho *echoecho  < 1237923554 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*echoecho VERSION < 1237923554 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VERSIONVERSION < 1237923556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: It doesn't listen to itself < 1237923568 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well that's good. < 1237923571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1237923577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*echo hello oepy < 1237923578 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*echo VERSION < 1237923578 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello oepy < 1237923578 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ehird < 1237923585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*echo VERSIOn < 1237923585 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VERSIOn < 1237923587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*echo VERSION < 1237923587 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VERSION < 1237923597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: Here's a ctcp command: < 1237923614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well? < 1237923618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is it unrelated? < 1237923625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: stop bugging me, I'm doing other things < 1237923637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*epy set(ctcp=lambda a: pr(chr(1)+a+chr(1))) < 1237923638 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : at 0x252f30> < 1237923640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cmd ctcp ctcp < 1237923643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ctcp VERSION < 1237923647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think it is a very valid question < 1237923651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't you agree ais523_? < 1237923663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I am delighted not to give a shit about your need to have every thing you say personally confirmed by me. < 1237923674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there is anything else you'd like me to ignore and do other things instead, please feel free to let me know < 1237923676 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because it's a difference between safety from outside and safety from inside < 1237923680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, back to ctcp. < 1237923692 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a lang like Haskell, for instance, you can prevent a program doing I/O simply by not giving it an I/O monad to play with < 1237923695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*epy set(ctcp=lambda *a: pr(chr(1)+' '.join(a)+chr(1))) < 1237923695 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : at 0x2588b0> < 1237923700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ctcp ACTION is green < 1237923701 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is green < 1237923705 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as you don't have unsafePerformIO or something like that getting in the way < 1237923723 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course you can also use *echo with control characters, but now *ctcp adds the control characters by itself. I'm not sure how *cmd ctcp ctcp is supposed to work, though. I don't know Python very well < 1237923726 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cmd *epy pr(1+1) < 1237923731 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err... < 1237923735 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1237923739 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cmd two *epy pr(1+1) < 1237923741 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*two < 1237923741 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KeyError: '*epy' < 1237923744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That won't work. < 1237923750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 'cmd': (lambda s, name='no_name_specified', func='no_func_specified', *a: < 1237923751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : extra_cmds.__setitem__(name, (lambda s, *a: < 1237923752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : this(this)['epy'](s, 'get(%s, user=%s)(*%s)' % (repr(func), repr(user), repr(a)) < 1237923753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, Hm... So you mean you would need a separate python instance that you could sandbox? < 1237923753 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pity < 1237923755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ))) < 1237923757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ), < 1237923759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It fakes an *epy. < 1237923761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you run it. < 1237923763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See? < 1237923764 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's what your analogy would be < 1237923773 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ah, ok < 1237923777 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is epy not in the namespace anyway? < 1237923782 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cmd three epy pr(1+2) < 1237923784 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*three < 1237923784 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KeyError: 'epy' < 1237923788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: that turns into < 1237923796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sec < 1237923797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it turns into < 1237923804 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looking at the log commands, it seems CTRL+A commands are recorded if they are malformed < 1237923810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*epy get('epy',user='ais523')('ptr(1+2)') < 1237923811 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KeyError: 'epy' < 1237923817 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: depends on the client < 1237923819 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But not if they are formed correctly < 1237923819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which, of course, fails, as you haven't defined "epy". < 1237923828 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the CTRL+A commands are more commonly known as "CTCPs" < 1237923836 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: oh, I assumed epy itself was defined using the get mechanism < 1237923838 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it special? < 1237923840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, anyway then ehird's analogy of sandboxing C isn't very relevant. Since C have all those things needed for doing it. You could even do somewhat like valgrind and interpret the executable... < 1237923856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: that looks up your set() results < 1237923857 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :valgrind doesn't interpret the executable, does it? < 1237923860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the command namespace < 1237923863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two different things < 1237923866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, it does partly iirc. < 1237923868 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1237923917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oepy isn't hard to read, is it? < 1237923918 0 :oepy!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ehird < 1237923923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you get used to the: < 1237923925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, I remember this because I ran into a (known) bug in it's handling of interpreting x87 instructions, related to rounding mode < 1237923931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(lambda f: f(x))(lambda name: ...) < 1237923932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being < 1237923934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let name = x in ... < 1237923937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's fairly easy < 1237923952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I said that back when you wrote it, you claimed it was hard to read then... < 1237923957 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it is to a pythoner < 1237923962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, AnMaster, I said it was ugly < 1237923964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I claimed it was rather easy compared to most python code I have seen < 1237923970 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole point is that python is easy to read because all python programs look identical < 1237923971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and easy to maintain too < 1237923974 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you only have to learn to read it once < 1237923986 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, they're rather too vertical for me to keep a lot in mind at once < 1237923986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes — and saying that reveals that you evidently can't freaking read it < 1237923991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if you could you wouldn't say it's easy to maintain < 1237923991 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep losing track due to all the scrolling < 1237923997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :having wrote it, I can tell you that it's a pain in the ass to modify < 1237924003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I remember giving an example of how to add a command, was dead easy < 1237924006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: get a bigger terminal? < 1237924015 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: yeah, we need multi-column editors < 1237924016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: uh, no. < 1237924018 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : two operators < 1237924032 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: how would that work with the whitespace thing? you couldn't track the indentation < 1237924035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes back when you first showed it in #esoteric < 1237924036 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ap should be = (<*>) for any monad < 1237924041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes. < 1237924042 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to know if anyone is interested in pocket monster IRC and if you have requests < 1237924049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: do you mean the pokemon rpg games? < 1237924053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :over IRC? < 1237924053 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: each column wide enough to fit everything (say, 80 chars) < 1237924056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how that would work. < 1237924061 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: did you just write the name of pokémon out in full? nobody does that < 1237924066 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't get how it would work over IRC < 1237924067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: the japanese do < 1237924071 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ah < 1237924079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, well, that's more pokettu monsutra or something. < 1237924091 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, close to that. It is multi-player battle only, and "limited" rather than "constructed" (the terms meaning what they do in M:tG) < 1237924094 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more worrying for me is the fact that pocket monster correctly abbreviates to pokémon in both English and Japanese < 1237924101 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pokemon sutra < 1237924113 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: err... you mean, you have to draft pokémon from a random selection of boosters? < 1237924115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Poketto Monsutā" < 1237924116 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's getting even more confusing < 1237924117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :japanese < 1237924121 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, "pokemon" is a abbreviation of the Japanese words "poketto monsutaa" which means "pocket monster" < 1237924124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was close < 1237924140 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: japanese has tr? < 1237924146 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: no. < 1237924152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :karma sutra < 1237924162 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh just a pun < 1237924172 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be written in katakana but on IRC it is harder if the Unicode is not support very well < 1237924183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is Indian or something isn't it? < 1237924186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most irc clients support unicode. < 1237924190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's Kama Sutra. < 1237924190 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: anyway, please tell me the rules for this really insane concept < 1237924192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said Karma Sutra. < 1237924207 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can always just ban anyone who can't get utf working. < 1237924209 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a pokemon draft's a worrying-enough thought as-is, do you get to choose their attacks and evs and ivs etc yourself < 1237924212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah. < 1237924216 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are they intrinsic on the pokemon? < 1237924225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: you can teach them moves in the games < 1237924229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I wouldn't think instrinsic < 1237924238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually I don't even think this could possibly work. < 1237924240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, interesting idea. But I have working UTF and I saw "ā" above? < 1237924242 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does saying karma sutra reduce your karma? < 1237924242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what do you mean < 1237924243 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort of like drafting from boosters, that is one possible limited play but there are other styles of limited as well, such as "random fixed deck" in which case each player gets things assigned randomly but equally. There are even more kinds of limited styles also. < 1237924248 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm asking about the specific rules of limited pokemon-over-IRC < 1237924265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it's kindness porn < 1237924265 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it could possibly work either, but am willing to be proven wrong < 1237924299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suggestion: This channel use use UTF-EBCDIC! < 1237924302 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There will be more than one possible type of limited play. I haven't worked out the specifics yet but if you have any suggestions I will take them into consideration. < 1237924307 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i sort of assume the porn part is in the "kama", since sutra means something like text or book iirc < 1237924307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the official encoding < 1237924318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: whatever :P < 1237924345 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"K.ma means sensual or sexual pleasure, and s.tra are the guidlines of yoga, the word itself means thread in Sanskrit." < 1237924359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, how comes "karma" and "kama" are so close then? < 1237924366 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modulo unicode copy/paste error < 1237924370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: karma = spiritual pleasure? :P < 1237924378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is that so? < 1237924384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was guessing < 1237924385 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't a kama a sort of weapon? < 1237924392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, that's katana isn't it? < 1237924393 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do I play too much D&D? < 1237924398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Weapon book? I don't see the relevance to sex there :D < 1237924402 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, that's a different sort of weapon < 1237924415 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there is kama in D&D also, isn't it? (And I mean 3.5e because 4e is hardly D&D) < 1237924417 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: maybe -ma is a noun suffix like in greek... < 1237924431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy crap, Slereah has never used a {} dictionary in Python. < 1237924431 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a katana's a sort of high-quality sword, karmas are more like a sort of cross between a pickaxe and a scikle < 1237924432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1237924440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, link? < 1237924443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1237924444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link to what < 1237924451 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yep, and D&D 4 is a good game, but an entirely different game to D&D 3.5 and below < 1237924453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, where did you see that he didn't < 1237924458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: he has me on msn. < 1237924460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :messenger. < 1237924461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1237924465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my < 1237924467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1237924475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a protocol < 1237924476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I suck at python and even I know about {} dicts... < 1237924478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1237924483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you were going to complain about msn :P < 1237924496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no I have done that so many times before < 1237924502 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: I don't know how good 4e is (it is said to be a excellent war game), but it is a bad D&D game and a bad role-playing game. I'm not saying 4e is bad, but it isn't real D&D in my opinion < 1237924515 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: msn as a protocol may not be completely awful, but msn the servers have problems < 1237924522 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they blocked youtube links for a while, for instance < 1237924530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real d&ders play D&D -3i2 < 1237924533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, what about google links? < 1237924540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: oh, they do a lot of that retarded blocking shit; I keep having to put spaces in urls < 1237924541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1237924546 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so, that would be even more ridiculous than blocking youtube < 1237924547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :download.php download.php download.php download.php download.php download.php download.php download.php < 1237924562 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "Icosahedral RPG" (which I have written slowly over time) < 1237924567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would use a more open protocol < 1237924567 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people still use MSN? < 1237924576 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: google talk! < 1237924581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any good free, open and standard IM protocol < 1237924585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's not your choice to make: if everyone you know uses MSN, then you use MSN because otherwise you can't talk to them. < 1237924585 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: yes, msn's the most popular instant messenger I've seen < 1237924589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See? Human social interaction? < 1237924590 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google talk < 1237924591 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is surprising given how awful it is < 1237924593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: it's popular in the UK < 1237924594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, is that open? I mean open like Jabber is open < 1237924595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AIM is more popular in the US < 1237924596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT < 1237924598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it IS jabber < 1237924599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without the xml mess < 1237924600 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: actually, I just persuaded them to use IRC instead < 1237924602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh < 1237924604 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: google talk is jabber. < 1237924607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1237924608 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or to be precise, someone else did < 1237924612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: Yes, you're lucky because you have technically competent friends. < 1237924615 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Icosahedral it should be you are allowed to add/subtract/multiply/divide spells. And spell effects can have quantum superpositions. < 1237924616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well what about the xml mess that jabber is? < 1237924616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shouldn't we all be so lucky. < 1237924618 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, they aren't < 1237924621 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all my friends switched from msn to google talk over the past year or so < 1237924622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would prefer a protocol not using XML < 1237924632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: we're talking about a different level of technical incompetence here; and also apathy. < 1237924636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all, all THEIR friends use MSN, too. < 1237924649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, so you can connect to google talk using a jabber client of your choice? < 1237924653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes. < 1237924657 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yep < 1237924658 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer IRC protocol. I don't like MSN or any of the other ones < 1237924662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They include instructions for doing so. < 1237924662 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: most people are capable of opening more than one chat app at once < 1237924666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was something in the side bar on gmail? < 1237924668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1237924669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: why should they < 1237924673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, same here < 1237924675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: And a downloadable app. And a jabber server. < 1237924676 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's one possible way to connect. < 1237924678 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1237924683 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use bitlbee personally. < 1237924683 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: because some of their friends use MSN, and others use IRC? < 1237924688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: no they don't < 1237924694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they all use msn < 1237924695 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not as if people don't use both MSN and Facebook, for instance < 1237924697 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC is simple enough to be used without a client < 1237924700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm? gjabberd or what? < 1237924702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :facebook is a social networking site < 1237924710 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: yes, but I wouldn't expect someone nontechnical to do that < 1237924716 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: so what, they have them both open anyway < 1237924720 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a third program to that? < 1237924724 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, IRC is actually possible to close < 1237924729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: it's a browser. < 1237924729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, google's jabber server is downloadable? huh? What is the name of it so I can google it < 1237924733 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been to cybercafes before with other people's MSN still running < 1237924733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, it is not. < 1237924738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: And a downloadable app. And a jabber server. < 1237924743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did you mean then < 1237924748 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a downloadable server, does that even make sense? < 1237924751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: can you stop being so goddamn dense? IT'S A SERVER USING THE JABBER PROTOCOL < 1237924761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, well wget http://apache.org/whatever ? < 1237924779 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : You can bowdlerise it to "B****fuck", "Brainf***", "B****f***", or whatever you want, in writing, but in writing I prefer to use the proper word "Brainfuck". < 1237924784 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's a website, or server software, not a server itself < 1237924789 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :officially it should be lowercase too < 1237924793 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://liquidmateria.info/wiki/Icosahedral I think the license (see red text on bottom) is a license I wrote I think is valid for free culture works, do you think it is < 1237924795 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: not quite < 1237924803 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it follows normal capitalisation rules for an ordinary word < 1237924810 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's "Brainfuck" at the start of a sentence < 1237924813 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "brainfuck" inside a sentence < 1237924823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: anyway, if you want you can try and convince my friends to use IRC instead. Predicted response: "Uh... why?" (time passes) "Nah, I'll stick with MSN." < 1237924829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, To be downloading a server doesn't sound strange. It would imply "server software" < 1237924830 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people always seem to get this wrong, for some rwason < 1237924834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the meantime i'll continue using MSN. < 1237924841 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, make "brainfuck" lowercased. Of course that is not always done but I guess it is the standard lowercased < 1237924846 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, they switched to IRC for the ability to use channels < 1237924857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MSN does group chats. < 1237924857 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and specifically, ban each other from channels < 1237924862 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know < 1237924872 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but does it do two different group chats with the same people involved? < 1237924880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway what about something like jabber but WITHOUT THE XML MESS? < 1237924880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can do that with Adium < 1237924884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno if it does that with the official client, but < 1237924887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would they want to? < 1237924890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the same people, after all < 1237924893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I know why.) < 1237924894 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: to talk about different things < 1237924897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a simple protocol like IRC maybe... < 1237924897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(They don't; because they don't need it.) < 1237924901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: why do they need to categorize that < 1237924902 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and actually it's about 3 groups of people, which mostly overlap < 1237924912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: conversations IRL drift everywher < 1237924912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1237924913 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some people are banned from various groups < 1237924914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for some reason a lot of people doesn't consider IRC a subtype of "IM" < 1237924917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most people aren't sticklers for organizations < 1237924920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is strange < 1237924924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*organization < 1237924929 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the real reason's so you can have conversations with people about certain subjects, and ban other people from them < 1237924947 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really easy to underestimate the complexity of secondary school politics, it seems < 1237924970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My friends tend to have less drama. :P < 1237924974 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1237924983 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they use MSN just to create drama? < 1237925006 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've actually gone into a cybercafe < 1237925011 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone else's MSN was still running < 1237925015 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I couldn't quit it at all < 1237925017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, they use MSN to talk < 1237925025 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing that would have let me quit it was hidden by the cybercafe software < 1237925042 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I just said "I'm actually not , they left this cybercafe and left their MSN client running, and I can't figure out how to exit it" < 1237925050 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then ignored everything that came up there < 1237925064 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure what the reaction of the people involved was < 1237925075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prediction: "huh?" < 1237925108 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shuffles away fro the cynicism goo ehird is emanating < 1237925113 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*from < 1237925114 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, we'll never know < 1237925125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I prefer to call it 'experience'. < 1237925127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, what about telling the staff about it? < 1237925134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Response: 'huh?' < 1237925135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the place I mean < 1237925139 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eek, my sock is dissolving from it < 1237925149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come on, you can't seriously believe people are that technically competent. < 1237925157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I live in a freaking bubble and I know they're not < 1237925170 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a sock-dissolving bubble? < 1237925173 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: they were incompetent, and I'd probably have been in trouble if I tried < 1237925174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well they would have to phone some manager then until they reached someone who knew < 1237925182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, in trouble? why? < 1237925184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOBODY KNOWS! < 1237925187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOBODY KNOWS NOBODY CARES! < 1237925190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT! < 1237925192 0 :atrapado!n=nnn@cm42175.red83-165.mundo-r.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1237925195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People don't understand computers < 1237925195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't want to < 1237925198 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could get free uses of that place by control-alt-deleting the cybercafe software and just using the computer < 1237925199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't want to hear about it < 1237925202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they DON'T UNDERSTAND! < 1237925205 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I didn't < 1237925206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they don't want to hear about it! < 1237925257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1237925291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the correct action is always to report the issue to whoever is responsible, and then let them forward it upwards. < 1237925300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*MEGAFACEPALM* < 1237925301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in cases like that < 1237925307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*FIVE THOUSAND HEADDESKS* < 1237925310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, in my experience it usually works < 1237925313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*GUN* *HEAD* < 1237925315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ it is fun < 1237925316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*GUN**BULLET**HEAD* < 1237925322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*HADDE* < 1237925325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* * < 1237925326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1237925365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't accept people don't know, if they run a bloody cyber café how did they set it up if they don't know anything about it < 1237925366 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm pretty sure that there were only three people involved in running the place < 1237925369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes no sense < 1237925372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1237925372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they < 1237925374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bought < 1237925375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some < 1237925377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :premade < 1237925379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cybercafe < 1237925381 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: my guess is they downloaded cybercafe software from the internet < 1237925381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :software < 1237925384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you < 1237925385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ignoramus < 1237925386 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just installed it on lots of computers < 1237925387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I can't read when you write one word per line < 1237925390 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without knowing what it did < 1237925397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: good, then maybe you'll stop talking < 1237925402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just write multiple per line instead, it works much better < 1237925402 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: agree with AnMaster, it's very hard to read one-word-per-line comments < 1237925410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'll ignore those line you said there instead < 1237925488 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :icbw < 1237925492 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :toeo < 1237925497 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : u r < 1237925500 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : l s < 1237925504 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : d e < 1237925599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, don't give him ideas < 1237925613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike you I have a sense of humour, so that is unlikely. < 1237925620 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: at least he would have to work for it :D < 1237925662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, not really, a script to rotate text would be a one and a half minute hack at most < 1237925677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See a-b, 2008. Old. < 1237925680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uninteresting. Whatever. < 1237925690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1237925694 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agora-business? < 1237925698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes. < 1237925712 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Agora went through a period where people were using all sorts of weird character orders < 1237925725 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the end, Goethe just posted a completely randomly-ordered anagram of eir message < 1237925726 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it stopped < 1237925809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder if yi builds < 1237926077 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://code.google.com/p/shedskin/ < 1237926080 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, anyone seen that? < 1237926127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1237926128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sucks < 1237926138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it supports only a retarded subset of python, and its own extensions < 1237926143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :andi t's not even that fast and it's crap < 1237926148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you haev to write statically typed python. < 1237926154 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm < 1237926164 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how it compares to translated RPython and Cython < 1237926164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, not all Python features, such as nested functions and variable numbers of arguments < 1237926168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no *args < 1237926171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no def : def: < 1237926175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no def: lambda < 1237926177 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hasucks < 1237926182 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only mentions cpython and psyco < 1237926282 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use haskell! < 1237926287 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(how fast/slow is python-compiled-by-cython compared to cpython?) < 1237926291 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries < 1237926354 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.128 JOIN :#esoteric < 1237926664 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=BeholdMy@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1237926952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ping < 1237926960 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bong < 1237926966 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1237926973 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fang < 1237926995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: how do you enable profiling libs when compiling ghc < 1237926997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you not need to < 1237927008 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiling with GHC or compiling GHC < 1237927033 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the latter, it's probably in mk/config.mk < 1237927038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter < 1237927053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# In addition, the RTS is built in some further variations. Ways that < 1237927054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# make sense here: < 1237927054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1237927056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# thr : threaded < 1237927058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# thr_p : threaded profiled < 1237927060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# debug : debugging (compile with -g for the C compiler, and -DDEBUG) < 1237927062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# debug_p : debugging profiled < 1237927065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# thr_debug : debugging threaded < 1237927066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# thr_debug_p : debugging threaded profiled < 1237927069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# t : ticky-ticky profiling < 1237927070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# debug_t : debugging ticky-ticky profiling < 1237927073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy shiaite! < 1237927075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debugging ticky-ticky profiling XD < 1237927297 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ticky-ticky profiling is wicked icky < 1237927748 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@e-60.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1237928122 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.128 JOIN :#esoteric < 1237928499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, GHC is on the path to compiling. < 1237928504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God, this is way too hard. bloody bootstrapping. < 1237928508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome in theory, shit in practice. < 1237928550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION make -j3 < 1237928561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there's one thing I need after all this it's some efficiency. < 1237928577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cabal-bin: Cannot find the program 'ghc-pkg' at '' or on the path < 1237928578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make[1]: *** [bootstrapping.conf] Error 1 < 1237928578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make: *** [stage1] Error 2 < 1237928674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like ten thousand spoons. < 1237928972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's try that again. < 1237929020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So ais523_, tell ,me how much you hate bootstrapping. < 1237929031 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very much < 1237929038 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, it seems to work on CLC-INTERCAL, at least on UNIX < 1237929040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see, you are a ghc-compilation-virgin. < 1237929047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lucky, lucky you. < 1237929052 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although there were line ending trouble when I tried to port CLC-INTERCAL to Windows < 1237929061 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I can get a binary package of it, why would I need to compile it/ < 1237929072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: You should try it anyway; then you'll hate people. < 1237929108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: which version are you trying to build? < 1237929112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6.10.1 < 1237929119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With a bootstrapping binary of 6.8.2 < 1237929128 0 :tombom!i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1237929132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I have these weird obsession: if it's a tool I feel I'll use an awful lot and depend on; I compile it myself. < 1237929134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*this < 1237929163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So far, though, it seems to be working. < 1237929166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is good. < 1237929188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And after this, I can trash my icky hacked-with bootstrap compiler and the source tree, and be left with a clean, solid ghc 6.10.1 < 1237929191 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the lambda parameter in python to say 'any number of argument'? < 1237929197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if I want to upgrade, I can just use my own damn ghc to compile it. < 1237929198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: *a < 1237929203 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kthx < 1237929222 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's a list I assume?) < 1237929228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tuple < 1237929260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Panopticon <- The guy who invented this was a psycho < 1237929309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, my computer is whirring. That means it is doing things quickly. < 1237929312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is good. < 1237929324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :84% CPU used. Very good. < 1237929331 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah fuck. < 1237929334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What. < 1237929337 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> f=lambda *a:0 < 1237929337 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> f < 1237929337 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : at 0x015EF030> < 1237929342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes? < 1237929345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to call it. < 1237929346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f() < 1237929380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I wonder why my other CPU isn't getting in on the fun < 1237929388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1237929390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other core < 1237929404 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"My other core is a Porsche." < 1237929422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My other core is also an Intel. < 1237929439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :…I want a sticker saying that < 1237929474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hey guys, check out this ASCII Mandelbrot Set I made [ASCII]" < 1237929475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously? < 1237929481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even brainfuck can do that in a few lines, goddamn. < 1237929487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why are you so, proggit? < 1237929488 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'p':lambda x,y,*a:a[x] < fuck you y you useless piece of shit < 1237929491 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm compiling 6.8.2 atm < 1237929497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: with what < 1237929507 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian sources < 1237929512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: with which ghc < 1237929548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's anything other than 'a binary build in the same tree', uninstall it and try again. < 1237929549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1237929553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1237929744 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's building from the C source < 1237929749 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghc has a portable-C backend < 1237929752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's absolutely not recommended < 1237929758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, you're specifically told not to do that in the build guide < 1237929773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice try. < 1237929779 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, how could it build without a version of ghc installed already < 1237929784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why you have to get one. < 1237929791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you do it in tree, not installed. < 1237929792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have fun < 1237929809 0 :BeholdMyGlory_!n=BeholdMy@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1237929875 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, it's not as if compiling things is tricky on a Debian-based system < 1237929881 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the same commands no matter what you're compiling < 1237929891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not with an in tree ghc binary < 1237929902 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it always works, it's considered a critical bug to release a passage where it doesn't < 1237929910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone saying that works without hacking and pain is full of shit because it's not that easy to compile ghc < 1237929931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and compiling from the c is totally not comparable < 1237929969 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, it seems to be compiling from /usr/bin/ghc6 < 1237929987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, that's an already installed build < 1237929990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that doesn't count < 1237929997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'll be what it's like after I have this build and want to upgrade < 1237929999 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm compiling 6.8.2 using 6.8.2 < 1237930005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the situation is compiling it from scratch using a bootstrap without isntalling it < 1237930008 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you want me to build the svn version using my already installed build? < 1237930011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1237930014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is also not comparable < 1237930046 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you're trying to do something impossible, I think < 1237930058 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is to install ghc which is written in a language you don't have a compiler for < 1237930066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1237930066 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without installing or otherwise obtaining a compiler for that language < 1237930068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've just told you < 1237930070 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as ghc-in-C < 1237930071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you DOWNLOAD A GHC BINARY < 1237930074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unpack it and DON'T INSTALL IT < 1237930076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you DOWNLOAD THE SOURCE < 1237930077 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's ridiculous! < 1237930085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: for values of ridiculous equal to the only supported method < 1237930098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for values of ridiculous equal to that's exactly what bootstrapping is < 1237930112 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ridiculous because you can build it from source < 1237930119 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :requiring a binary's ridiculous because you couldn't port it < 1237930123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you can port it < 1237930127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crosscompiler < 1237930130 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sane bootstrap methods involve a portable backend < 1237930134 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as C, or bytecode < 1237930153 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, you use ghc to translate ghc into C, then compile the C on someone else's system < 1237930153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great! now you have to write two copies of the compiler < 1237930155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and keep them in sync < 1237930155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1237930165 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, no, just two backends < 1237930167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: er... why < 1237930169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just do: < 1237930181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you use ghc to compile ghc for $PLATFORM, then you copy that ghc over to the platform, and use it to compile ghc < 1237930186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cross compiler < 1237930190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's how you port gcc, too < 1237930202 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that requires ghc to have a working backend for that platform already < 1237930211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: no it doesn't < 1237930214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you write one, then do that < 1237930296 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.128 JOIN :#esoteric < 1237930302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:30 ehird: ais523_: no it doesn't < 1237930302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:30 ehird: because you write one, then do that < 1237930396 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you need a backend at all if you only wanted to run ghci? < 1237930404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: do you know what ghci does? < 1237930406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it compiles then runs. < 1237930410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need a backend to do that. < 1237930417 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure? < 1237930420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. absolutely. < 1237930424 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a REPL invoking gcc is kind-of silly < 1237930428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't invoke gcc < 1237930431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it invokes ghc's api. < 1237930446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I know you can't do "ghci -fvia-C". < 1237930446 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought ghc compiled to machine-specific-C < 1237930449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1237930451 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and used a C compiler the rest of theway < 1237930455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it compiles to native code via C-- < 1237930458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"C--" not C < 1237930462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, there is -fvia-C < 1237930466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it isn't used any more < 1237930470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it produces worse code < 1237930475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and has no advantages < 1237930538 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1237930539 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The quality of the generated code depends on the program being compiled, -fvia-C is still better in some cases < 1237930547 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or that's what people say, anyway; I never use it < 1237930559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah but it's being phased out < 1237930575 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, but it's not completely gone yet < 1237930589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My problem with bootstrapping is the Nuclear Catastrophe scenario < 1237930595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suddenly, all your binaries are lost. < 1237930599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're fucked. < 1237930621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it means your implementation is semantically em pty < 1237930628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's defined only in terms of itself < 1237930632 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err... why would you lose binaries and not simultaneously lose the sources to them? < 1237930635 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that scenario binaries are not what I'd worry about :-P < 1237930637 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly < 1237930650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: because they're separate packages, and because of bitrot. < 1237930711 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, at least in CLC-INTERCAL the bytecode for the compiler is packaged together with the sources to it < 1237930723 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, all that means is that you should have the ability to build essentially your whole system given only the hardware < 1237930723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say you lose all packages; just your coding tree is left < 1237930729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it's not likely IRL < 1237930731 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're feeling lucky, you can assume you have a kernel < 1237930733 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in my coding tree < 1237930734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just a feeling of brittleness < 1237930764 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So go learn some asm and put printouts of the Intel manuals in some secure location :-P < 1237930770 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or would be if I actually coded on CLC-INTERCAL < 1237930790 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: would you feel happier if the binary was written entirely in plaintext? < 1237930804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a plan to devise a bootstrapping system that requires the minimum amount of code duplication while retaining almost all expressivity < 1237930807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should implement it sometime < 1237930827 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, simply compile to source rather than to binary < 1237930835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1237930835 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And can it do anything useful? :-P < 1237930848 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1237930851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not nearly as brittle; it's very very sturdy in the face of generated-code loss < 1237930853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes. < 1237930854 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLC-INTERCAL will have a decompiler, for instance, eventually < 1237930869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: you're thinking on the completely wrong level, but this conversation is highly boring atm < 1237930870 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what if you lose everything but the binary? can you generate sources from it? < 1237930873 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a more common situation < 1237930890 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And much more problematic < 1237930904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could copy the source into the binary, I guess. But I don't care about common - I care about the theory and the irritating feeling of brittleness the other types of bootstrapping give me < 1237930909 0 :ais523__!n=ais523@147.188.254.128 JOIN :#esoteric < 1237930948 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even unobfuscated binaries are practically impossible to reverse-engineer past a certain point of complexity < 1237931041 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... all programs should have a --quine switch < 1237931042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boy, this is taking a while. < 1237931043 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes them into quines < 1237931153 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather, all compilers should have a compile-time option to embed the source and such an option < 1237931169 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1237931179 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it should be compile-time for the compiler, not for the thing it's compiling < 1237931235 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there are contexts where embedding the source is something you don't want < 1237931248 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yes, even for open-source software) < 1237931293 0 :ais523__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :embedded compilers? < 1237931295 0 :ais523__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523 < 1237931338 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any embedded software, where the source code can well be too big to fit in the device it's runniing on :-P < 1237931387 0 :BeholdMyGlory_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1237931457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Preprocessing executables for ghc-bin-6.10.1... < 1237931458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Building ghc-bin-6.10.1... < 1237931458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1 of 1] Compiling Main ( Main.hs, dist-stage2/build/ghc/ghc-tmp/Main.o ) < 1237931460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linking dist-stage2/build/ghc/ghc ... < 1237931462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck yeah? < 1237931491 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-88-58.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1237931569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make[2]: *** [doc.stage.2] Error 1 < 1237931570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make[1]: *** [stage2] Error 2 < 1237931571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make: *** [bootstrap2] Error 2 < 1237931776 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gaiz < 1237931794 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ghci normally compiles to bytecode, though < 1237931808 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Owait no, nevermind < 1237931815 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ah, that would make sense < 1237931819 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what runs the bytecode? ghci? < 1237931831 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1237931844 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"By default, GHCi compiles Haskell source code into byte-code that is interpreted by the runtime system." < 1237931862 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that makes a lot more sense than what ehird was suggesting < 1237931867 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes it an actual REPL < 1237931885 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it probably still is just a backend to that C-- thing, i assume < 1237931895 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than a RCRPL < 1237931933 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"GHCi can also compile Haskell code to object code: to turn on this feature, use the -fobject-code flag either on the command line or with :set" < 1237932214 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1237932445 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1237932469 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@e-60.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1237932642 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :_ais523 < 1237932655 0 :_ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :A1S523 < 1237932837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RCRPL? < 1237932847 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read compile run print loop < 1237932865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_, sounds pretty sane if you already have implemented a compiler for the language < 1237932888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have there is no real good reason to also design a byte code compiler and an interpreter for that < 1237932906 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1237932918 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[['f', 'x'], 's(x)'], [['g', 'y'], 'f(y)']] < 1237932920 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yessss < 1237932920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you could just use LLVM to be able to do either :) < 1237932922 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the byte code compilation is supposedly faster < 1237932924 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parsing works :D < 1237932924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well JIT then < 1237932927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and compile < 1237932954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, if it is faster to execute byte code suddenly, why does it compile anything at all in ghc? < 1237932957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1237932963 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not execute < 1237932965 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just compile < 1237932973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok that would indeed be true < 1237932976 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :native code is 10-20 times faster to execute < 1237932990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, you could JIT it < 1237933020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I would just use LLVM since with LLVM I could just use the built in functionality to compile to native, JIT it, or even interpret it < 1237933023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1237933026 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i failed at finding any specific information on how bytecode compilation differs from the native code paths < 1237933038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, grep the source? < 1237933043 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for ghc < 1237933060 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't have it installed, just web browsing < 1237933184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, you don't have ghc installed? < 1237933189 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1237933198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you were a haskell fan? < 1237933233 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it is my favorite language, but i don't actually do that much programming < 1237933400 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eval(i[0][1]) < what ain't right in that expression? < 1237933456 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well assuming i[0][1] is an appropriate string, i would think nothing < 1237933488 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it tells me there's a syntax error :o < 1237933499 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: what lang? < 1237933502 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Python < 1237933515 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well what does i[0][1] contain? < 1237933515 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the curried arrays? < 1237933541 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the syntax error might be from the string contents < 1237933545 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it contains a string, though it wouldn't know that since the program won't even run! < 1237933561 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :paste more stuff < 1237933565 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the error is somewhere else < 1237933572 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for i in prog : < 1237933572 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : func[i[0][0]]=lambda eval(i[0][1]):eval(i[1]) < 1237933579 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1237933583 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no arguments to the lambda < 1237933594 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The argument is in the eval :( < 1237933603 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't do that. < 1237933607 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shit < 1237933608 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server" < 1237933619 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :put the entire lambda inside the eval. < 1237933631 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though i have no idea why you would ever want to do whatever you're doing. < 1237933646 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Horrible stuff. < 1237933652 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Limp < 1237933781 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may works, but since python gives me "'g': at 0x015ED3B0>", i'll have to try it. < 1237933817 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you'll need to be careful to get things evaluated when you want < 1237933839 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't care too much about the order in that particular case, though < 1237933847 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only functions. < 1237933877 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, I just saw http://thedailywtf.com/Comments/Tax-Broke.aspx < 1237933883 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the oh no is due to zzo38 trying to comment on it < 1237933888 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, will "lambda " + i[0][1] + ":" + i[1] do? < 1237933899 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, eval of that < 1237933899 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh fuck < 1237933915 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forgot the function to turn functions into dic['function'] < 1237933942 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's be doin that < 1237933980 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1237933986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think the world's ready for xxo38 < 1237933987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*zzo38 < 1237933989 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could do it in an extremely lazy way. < 1237933998 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And i don't mean lazy evaluation. < 1237934215 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def dikdik(x,y): < 1237934215 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : y = y.replace('s(','').replace(')','').split(',') < 1237934215 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : z = x.split('(').split(')') < 1237934215 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for i in z : < 1237934215 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if i not in y : < 1237934215 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : x.replace(i,'func['+i+']') < 1237934217 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return x < 1237934221 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah, that's lazy. < 1237934228 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly non-working, but let's hope! < 1237934689 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yesss. < 1237934759 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's try the addition program! < 1237934807 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :owait, i forgot to define the s(x) thingy first. < 1237935041 0 :A1S523!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :comex < 1237935482 0 :neldoreth!n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth JOIN :#esoteric < 1237935591 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-027-168.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1237936364 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Peace and Protection 4.22.2" < 1237937811 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1237937949 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot the case where the function is defined twice :( < 1237937961 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this code is getting uglier with each exception < 1237938052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: yes, because your code is shit < 1237938058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you shouldn't do eval like that < 1237938100 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What would you advise? < 1237938113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean? < 1237938124 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of doing that. < 1237938127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1237938128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1237938132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection reset by peer < 1237938143 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed that since you though it was shit, you'd have a better idea. < 1237938184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not doing that? < 1237938187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is my better idea. < 1237938198 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And doing what instead? :o < 1237938208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the heck do you mean! just write it normally < 1237938229 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm afraid you'll have to define what "that" is a little better then < 1237938235 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not too sure what you're talking about < 1237938316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... just write it as a normal interpreter < 1237938342 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would you go about that? < 1237938355 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So far that's the best way I found. < 1237938415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't believe you don't know how to write an interpreter < 1237938419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's so intuitive I can't even explain it < 1237938430 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1237938444 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can do okay with machines that work step by step. < 1237938456 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the whole function definition that's causing me troubles. < 1237938661 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1237938799 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should rewrite it from the start and not forget shit. < 1237938809 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But later. Now is sleepy time. < 1237938931 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Abandonando" < 1237939170 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection