< 1235865603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#ifdef LNR < 1235865605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are the parts that do that < 1235865611 0 :Random832!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if it modifies the cell it loops on? < 1235865623 0 :Random832!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wasn't sure because of that < 1235865624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as it has balanced < and > and does no IO, you can reduce it trivially < 1235865690 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"trivially" may be a bit strong < 1235865706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is trivial apart from uncomputable things < 1235865732 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, who killed the wiki again? < 1235865807 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it always comes back when i complain here < 1235865915 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : What do you mean "even GNU"? GNU is the anti-unix, and have always gone 100% exactly the opposite of unix standards. < 1235866068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's FUD but it's not totally off.. < 1235866094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, even the name claims not to be UNIX < 1235866108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's UNIX-compatible, but does seem to like doing things differently, I'm not sure if that's good or bad < 1235866113 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, I suspect it's just different < 1235866203 0 :Random832!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what exactly does GNU do differently that you can't find being done three or more different ways across all things that are called unix? < 1235866203 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Quit" < 1235866233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: < 1235866234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Random832: adding more features than the UNIX things normally have < 1235866234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# foo.x().y();; < 1235866235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error: This expression has type unit but is here used with type ('a, 'b) foo < 1235866241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, yeah, that syntax doesn't work :( < 1235866243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many people who admire UNIX don't like bloat < 1235866257 0 :Random832!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as...? < 1235866263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Random832: ls --help < 1235866276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compare to < 1235866277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usage: ls [-ABCFGHLPRSTWabcdefghiklmnopqrstuwx1] [file ...] < 1235866282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck, true --help < 1235866284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo --help < 1235866287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the list is endless < 1235866297 0 :Random832!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's uniformity < 1235866308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at their _output_ < 1235866308 0 :Random832!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the one place that behavior violates standards is yes --help) < 1235866311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's bloat < 1235866314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, no, echo --help too < 1235866328 0 :Random832!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, echo isn't guaranteed to echo back if it's passed an argument beginning with a hyphen < 1235866348 0 :Random832!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and isn't echo a shell builtin anyway?) < 1235866364 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Random832: it's a shell builtin but also a program < 1235866374 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can deliberately use the non-builtin version by writing /bin/echo < 1235866376 0 :Random832!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but you can't invoke the program with just "echo" < 1235866386 0 :Random832!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i don't think /bin/... is guaranteed by the unix standard < 1235866408 0 :Random832!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("command echo" might be - i'd have to look it up) < 1235866481 0 :Random832!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever. BSD is unix and their echo uses -n < 1235866490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, echo -n is standard UNIX < 1235866513 0 :Random832!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.opengroup.org/onlinepubs/007908799/xcu/echo.html < 1235866513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.sixwordstories.net/ < 1235866529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Random832: plan9 supports -n; so it's UNIXy enough for me < 1235866553 0 :Random832!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, well, that just means that violating the unix standard in minor ways is a unix tradition < 1235866920 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1235867666 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1235870043 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1235871145 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1235871338 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1235871482 0 :kerlo!n=ihope@normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1235871518 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1235871523 0 :Asztal!n=moo@chunkybacon.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1235873288 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How TF was this one discovered? http://www.mezzacotta.net/archive.php?date=-5679392-11-17 < 1235873345 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean by "discovered"? < 1235873364 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :randomly, of course < 1235873371 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this time it's no joke :) < 1235873397 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Caught sigterm, terminating..." < 1235873410 0 :comex!n=comex@teklinks.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1235873438 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: it's the oldest entry in mezzacotta's hall of fame < 1235873462 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course traffic was higher in those days. recently the hall of fame doesn't even update daily. < 1235873481 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there were more people to search for it. :) < 1235873496 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or :/ if you look at the current state) < 1235873562 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course if you want to help, just hit the random or best bakes page and vote < 1235873634 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DMM explained on forum hall of fame requires >= 50 voters and >= 80% bakedness < 1235873727 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. I think I've suddenly figured out why most of these aren't funny. < 1235873730 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem appears to be no. voters, as the whole left side > 80% < 1235873797 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the right side lists doesn't seem to exclude hall of fame members) < 1235873804 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*don't < 1235873824 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: because they're random? < 1235873833 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1235874140 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also of course even the things that _were_ funny the first time around tend to be repeated < 1235874152 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :until they no longer are < 1235874322 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION votes on the upper right list too, since he's there < 1235874552 0 :Random832!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1235877510 0 :CakeProphet!n=seveninc@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1235878340 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Client Excited" < 1235887625 0 :mikkeCA!n=mikkeca@cpe-98-154-7-169.socal.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1235887633 0 :mikkeCA!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1235887802 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1235890328 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, someone decided to go the extra mile with the extra-www thing: < 1235890330 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.www.www.www.www.www.www.www.www.www.www.www.www.www.www.www.www.m.trainingpacks.co.uk/ < 1235890359 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, it's just parked :( < 1235890392 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn wildcard dns. wonder why it shows with so many wwws in my search result though. < 1235890446 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because someone linked to it that way? < 1235890512 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but... still odd (there's many different ones, too) < 1235891350 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo -a --- < 1235891355 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ < 1235892830 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1235892948 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-10-77.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1235894399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1235894400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1235899692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1235899731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1235899732 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!y < 1235899739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1235899758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : echo -a --- < 1235899760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1235899771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could be hard with echo < 1235899781 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@e-99.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1235899783 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{MizardX} / < 1235899783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to echo something beginning with - I mean < 1235899785 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ja+seWuV !y < 1235899824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, Base64? < 1235899843 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :||e +e +ou < 1235899859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX, if you do want to echo (in shell) something starting with - I would recommend using printf instead. Like printf "%s" "-whatever" < 1235899860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in bash < 1235899869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think that is POSIX though < 1235899870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1235899892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ... < 1235899919 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would have assumed there was some option you could just put first < 1235899936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, for echo? don't think so < 1235899948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1235899957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on what exactly < 1235899961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-a will print -a < 1235899966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-e you can't start with < 1235899976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax is: echo [-neE] [arg ...] < 1235899988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arg can't start with -n -e or -E < 1235900009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, the actual rules are rather complex < 1235900023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo '-e a' < 1235900023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-e a < 1235900026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo '-eE' < 1235900028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1235900046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(no space really there, but can't send empty line on irc) < 1235900055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo -- '-eE' < 1235900055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- -eE < 1235900082 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokoko < 1235900112 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oko! < 1235900120 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1235900126 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;* < 1235900814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Happy Australian Mailman day! < 1235900831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually not Australian, more like US one < 1235900925 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's for bash's echo. POSIX echo says about options: "The echo utility shall not recognize the '--' argument ...; '--' shall be recognized as a string operand. Implementations shall not support any options." < 1235901008 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically it says about the string operans: "If any operand is -n, it shall be treated as a string, not an option." And the escape sequences should be recognized by default. < 1235901015 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No-one seems to be doing echo like that, though. < 1235901192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1235901193 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^echo hi < 1235901195 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi hi < 1235901202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, bash have some option to do it iirc < 1235901210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either compile time or shopt/set < 1235901213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot < 1235901218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot which* < 1235901246 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SunOS 5.10 echo(1): < 1235901250 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sh's echo, ksh's echo, and /usr/bin/echo understand the back-slashed escape characters, except that sh's echo does not understand \a as the alert character. In addition, ksh's echo does not have an -n option. sh's echo and /usr/bin/echo have an -n option if the SYSV3 environment variable is set. < 1235901257 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :csh's echo and /usr/ucb/echo, on the other hand, have an -n option, but do not understand the back-slashed escape characters. sh and ksh determine whether /usr/ucb/echo is found first in the PATH and, if so, they adapt the behavior of the echo builtin to match /usr/ucb/echo". < 1235901261 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Echoing is surprisingly complicated. < 1235901282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1235901286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least on sunos yes < 1235901303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about solaris? iirc sunos is rather old < 1235901312 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SunOS 5.10 == Solaris 10. < 1235901324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1235901364 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess officially I shouldn't say "SunOS" at all, it's just that the page footer of the man page says "SunOS 5.10 Last change: 17 Jul 2006 1". < 1235901375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1235901387 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((Ultrix )S:^):^ < 1235901387 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ultrix Ultrix Ultrix Ultrix Ultrix Ultrix Ultrix Ultrix Ultrix Ultrix Ultrix Ultrix Ultrix Ultrix Ultrix Ultrix Ultrix Ultrix Ultrix Ultrix Ultrix Ultrix Ultrix Ultrix Ultrix Ultrix Ultrix Ultrix Ultrix Ultrix Ultrix Ultrix Ultrix Ultrix Ultrix Ultrix Ultrix Ultrix Ultrix Ultrix Ultrix Ultrix Ultrix Ultrix Ultrix Ultrix Ul ...too much output! < 1235901429 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suddenly wonders why he did that. < 1235901431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (::^):^ < 1235901432 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...too much stack! < 1235901441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I wonder too < 1235901456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what instructions in STRN does fungot use? < 1235901457 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i'd have hope only if terry gilliam directed it. then write the traditional examples; hello world, factorial, you say sure, why not? < 1235901487 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the monty python bot! < 1235901521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you say sure" is a "traditional example"? < 1235901562 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Hmm. I think at least A, C, F, G, L, N, P, S and V; but maybe not all of them very frequently. < 1235901576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie ah I recently improved N performance < 1235901629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when does IWC update now again? wasn't it 11:00? < 1235901645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it 12:00? < 1235901653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ^ < 1235901679 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:08 or 11:11 < 1235901686 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or thereabouts < 1235901700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, someone not using ntp? < 1235901716 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i just don't quite remember < 1235901727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange point of time < 1235901729 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:11 < 1235901745 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"at 03:11 Pacific Time, if you're curious - and no, no reason" < 1235901760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, where? I did look at faq just a moment ago... < 1235901770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I missed it... < 1235901772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1235901854 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N is called a number of times for each IRC message (because L with longer-than-the-string-itself argument wasn't so well-defined), but I don't think that's a performance-critical code path. In fact I don't think the whole bot is very performance-critical, since even the babble-generator response time is quite reasonable. The underload interp uses N in almost every instruction (sometimes twice), so there it might help. < 1235901881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1235901931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it also slightly altered how N works on empty stack (still following the spec though, but that doesn't mean much for RCS fingerprints...) < 1235901962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since now it doesn't actually pop the string at all, just scan the stack and push the length < 1235902035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few other instructions that popped strings are also faster now thanks to stack_pop_string returning string length (thus avoiding a call to strlen()) < 1235902085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I don't recommend using STRN on any data that doesn't fit in an unsigned byte for now, I have plans to fix that soon (long standing issue this) < 1235902135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, avoid out of byte-range values in the cells you operate on with STRN < 1235902163 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think my strings have any strange values, since it's mostly just IRC inputs/outputs anyway. < 1235902212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is possible with some values popped strings may contain more than one 0 byte due to the conversion from int32_t*/int64_t* to unsigned char* < 1235902217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :atm < 1235902231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm writing a fungecell string library atm to avoid this < 1235902276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw have you ever looked at the glibc strlen()? It does some crazy stuff < 1235902288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like scanning the string one word at a time < 1235902322 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I think I've seen something like that in some bit-tricks page. I don't think I've specifically looked at glibc strlen, though. < 1235902362 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARM has some opcodes to help dealing with "32-bit word which is actually part of a string of octets" data, IIRC. < 1235902435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1235902456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, glibc was doing some weird masking tricks and such < 1235902481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sources.redhat.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/~checkout~/libc/string/strlen.c?rev=1.1.2.1&content-type=text/plain&cvsroot=glibc < 1235902506 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I think it was the SuperH arch and not ARM that I was remembering. < 1235902562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it seems strange, with false positives... < 1235902648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could have been done even better in asm (strlen that is) < 1235902743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, which is actually done for x86: < 1235902745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sources.redhat.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/~checkout~/libc/sysdeps/i386/strlen.c?rev=1.8&content-type=text/plain&cvsroot=glibc < 1235902804 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it was SuperH. There's at least CMP/STR which is true (well, sets T flag to 1) when two registers have at least one equivalent byte; so 0x11223344 and 0x00220000 would compare to true. It can be used to do strlen like that by using 0 as the other operand; that way it does "set T if there's a null byte in this word". < 1235902865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sources.redhat.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/~checkout~/libc/sysdeps/x86_64/strlen.S?rev=1.2&content-type=text/plain&cvsroot=glibc < 1235902897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, if glibc supports superh then it is probably there < 1235902932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sources.redhat.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/~checkout~/libc/sysdeps/sh/strlen.S?rev=1.3&content-type=text/plain&cvsroot=glibc <-- maybe sh is superh? < 1235902944 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I just found that. < 1235902988 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mov #0, r3 ... cmp/str r3, r1; looks like they do it like that. < 1235903037 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"bf/s 2b" does a delayed branch, so it actually executes that "add #4, r2" under it before branching. < 1235903060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well it isn't odd that strlen() is optimised... < 1235903133 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Wait, IFPOD has net access?" < 1235903502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, http://sources.redhat.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/~checkout~/libc/sysdeps/x86_64/memcpy.S?rev=1.4.2.3&content-type=text/plain&cvsroot=glibc is crazy < 1235903559 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, that's quite a lot of code for different-sized memory blocks. < 1235903565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1235903649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sources.redhat.com/cgi-bin/cvsweb.cgi/~checkout~/libc/sysdeps/x86_64/memset.S?rev=1.2.2.7&content-type=text/plain&cvsroot=glibc < 1235903650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth < 1235903653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is all that < 1235903657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : .quad L(Got0), L(P1Q0), L(P2Q0), L(P3Q0) < 1235903657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : .quad L(P4Q0), L(P5Q0), L(P6Q0), L(P7Q0) < 1235903657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for < 1235903704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this meset is a lot of unrolled loops it seems < 1235903782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and SSE stuff < 1235903909 0 :lifthrasiir!n=lifthras@143.248.133.205 JOIN :#esoteric < 1235903992 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kernel's arch/x86/lib/memset_64.S is a lot simpler. I don't think I happen to have a copy of gcc sources, but doesn't it also have builtin memset? < 1235904004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm... < 1235904043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, those __builtins in gcc are crazier iirc, they expand to inline asm optimised for this specific usage case < 1235904052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the time < 1235904059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes they end up in libgcc.so.1 instead < 1235904134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glibc's memset need to check for alignment, while the builtin gcc memset at least sometimes could avoid that < 1235904240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also sometimes a loop could be even more effective: auto vectorisation and auto parallelisation < 1235904253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know if gcc supports the latter yet < 1235904257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :icc does < 1235904401 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c0796BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1235905345 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@217-211-228-107-o859.telia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1235907543 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=arvid@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1235908047 0 :Hiato!n=hiato@dsl-245-24-250.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1235908059 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1235908557 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"---" < 1235909232 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1235909598 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1235909846 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=arvid@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1235910778 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@e-193.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1235912436 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1235915342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just found that http://www.google.com/codesearch is actually useful heh < 1235915402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even better than grepping in a local copy in fact... < 1235915956 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1235916055 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c0796BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1235916745 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.121 JOIN :#esoteric < 1235917586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there? < 1235917594 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1235917604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this well defined behaviour or not: ip->delta = (fungeVector) { ip->delta.y, -ip->delta.x }; < 1235917611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm swapping x and y < 1235917615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's well-defined < 1235917627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, really? it won't end up reading after writing part or such? < 1235917657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a general rule that you can't read and write the same variable between sequence points, but there's an exception < 1235917660 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you hit the exception < 1235917660 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1235917666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh what is this exception? < 1235917673 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the exception is that you are allowed to if the read is necessary to calculate what's being written < 1235917682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. that the new value depends on the old value < 1235917698 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's why statements like i = i + 1; are legal < 1235917699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you mean like i = i+2 ? < 1235917703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1235917708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but does this apply in this case? < 1235917713 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it does < 1235917713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering it is part of the struct < 1235917717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1235917894 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c0796BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1235917993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what if I have different pointer that alias each other < 1235917997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it will defined then too? < 1235918007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same data type of course < 1235918149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ? < 1235918159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no ping reply.... guess he timed out < 1235918239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1235918564 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.121 JOIN :#esoteric < 1235919030 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1235919235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: < 1235919244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo -n '-n < 1235919245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :' < 1235919265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nice one < 1235919285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb, /cycling to get client synced up with names list < 1235919285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1235919286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo -n $'-n\n' < 1235919288 0 :ehird!n=ehird@208.78.103.223 JOIN :#esoteric < 1235919289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo -n $'-n\n' < 1235919292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should work too < 1235919293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1235919297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 has joined (n=ais523@147.188.254.121) < 1235919297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:50 3 has left (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) < 1235919299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that's a bug < 1235919308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1235919309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1235919314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's meant to be ais523 has left < 1235919319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he quit < 1235919320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my bouncer-quicklog-timestamp-regex is fscked up < 1235919322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to read error < 1235919324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not left < 1235919330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my bouncer-quicklog-timestamp-regex is fscked up < 1235919331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ais523 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) < 1235919331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ais523 (n=ais523@147.188.254.121) has joined #esoteric < 1235919331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ais523 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)) < 1235919334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1235919334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1235919336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it should say left IRC < 1235919342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what limechat says for quit < 1235919350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also, um, ais523, not 3 < 1235919352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION fixes < 1235919355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1235919367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elsif body =~ /^([^ ])+ has left(?: IRC)? \(#{BOUNCER_TIME_REGEXP}(.+)\)$/ < 1235919371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where BOUNCER_TIME_REGEXP = /\[(\d\d:\d\d):\d\d\] / < 1235919374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder what the issue is < 1235919410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what regex flavour? < 1235919422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ruby :P < 1235919427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's perl-esque < 1235919430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with some python stuff < 1235919440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think 1.9 uses oniguruma < 1235919448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.geocities.jp/kosako3/oniguruma/ < 1235919467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :geocities... < 1235919475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's common in japan < 1235919488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they all use a weird hosted blog software called hatena diary, too < 1235919502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? makes me think of 1997 websites.. < 1235919526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :japan's internetscape is weird :P < 1235919542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha, I was right, if you go to the root of that guy's homepage < 1235919543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://d.hatena.ne.jp/kkos/ < 1235919544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hatena diary < 1235919596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a different url... < 1235919608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.geocities.jp/kosako3/ < 1235919610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :links to that url < 1235919617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hatena diary is a hosted service < 1235919619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's on their site) < 1235919629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every japanese programmer uses it, I swear < 1235919644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1235919660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway hm maybe it is not ?: < 1235919666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why is it "weird"? < 1235919679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean http://d.hatena.ne.jp/kkos/ doesn't look very weird < 1235919689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slightly wordpressy in fact < 1235919699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i just mean < 1235919702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the general landscape of japan's internet < 1235919706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1235919707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :geocities is common and not retro at all < 1235919716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone under the sun uses one odd blog service < 1235919770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(?:re) < 1235919771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes re into a group without generating backreferences. < 1235919774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :—pickaxe < 1235919776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, so that is right < 1235919794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohh < 1235919798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm no < 1235919880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well let's hope that workd < 1235919882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worked < 1235919904 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.121 JOIN :#esoteric < 1235919973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523, what if I have different pointer that alias each other < 1235919973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : is it will defined then too? < 1235919977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I guess "no" < 1235920027 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you have guarantees with aliasing < 1235920034 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1235920037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1235920038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1235920042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you found a bug! < 1235920070 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you definitely don't if they're marked restrict, not sure about the unrestricted case < 1235920070 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hi ehird < 1235920070 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, which bug? < 1235920087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ask for oerjan's fly swatter, fly swatters tend to work ok on most bugs too < 1235920109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you came up as 'HH:MM 3 left (...)' < 1235920115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of 'HH:MM ais523 left IRC (...)' < 1235920118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to a regex bug < 1235920145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so what is the corrected regex? < 1235920155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : elsif body =~ /^([^ ])+ has left( IRC)? \(#{BOUNCER_TIME_REGEXP}(.+)\)$/ < 1235920158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not certain it will work < 1235920204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, some regex flavours allows naming the regex groups < 1235920216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not ruby's unfortunately < 1235920256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, then I would not use "( IRC)?" but rather two different regexes, one for IRC and one without IRC < 1235920276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's duplication < 1235920278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't the numbers change if there is any " IRC" to match? < 1235920284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1235920284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't any* < 1235920287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just becomes nil < 1235920291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which stringifies to "" < 1235920317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm so how does it work in groups like: (a([a-z]+))* < 1235920327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which number does the inner group get ;P < 1235920331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. < 1235920339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and if it repeats ? < 1235920353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like: < 1235920365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't repeat groups < 1235920368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irb(main):001:0> "aaa" =~ /(a)+/ < 1235920368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=> 0 < 1235920369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irb(main):002:0> $1 < 1235920371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=> "a" < 1235920373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irb(main):003:0> $2 < 1235920375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=> nil < 1235920377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a([0-9]+) ?)* a0238 a32a84 < 1235920377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same in most regex flavours < 1235920388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, iirc some flavours allows repeating < 1235920391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you can repeat them < 1235920395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just don't get the group < 1235920405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, so you *do* get the group < 1235920426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do many people use ocaml's OOP? < 1235920429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't seen it used once < 1235920443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway the right way to solve this is writing a lexer of course < 1235920446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, i just saw it < 1235920448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first time < 1235920453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: har har < 1235920459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also why are you parsing elsif body =~ /^([^ ])+ has left( IRC)? \(#{BOUNCER_TIME_REGEXP}(.+)\)$/ instead of parsing the raw messages from the bouncer? < 1235920473 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1235920473 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not exactly an OCaml expert... < 1235920477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they would be a lot easier to match < 1235920482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because I can't get to that < 1235920489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the time it gets parsed into the timestamp, it's parsed the rest < 1235920497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is in Log#new < 1235920501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: kay :P < 1235920509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, even xchat allows that... and xchat's scripting support sucks < 1235920519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course ERC manages it fine < 1235920522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I _can_ do it < 1235920526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not supported < 1235920529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it is < 1235920531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look < 1235920533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this way is simpler < 1235920533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1235920535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1235920540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'd prefer not to mess with the direct messages from my bouncer < 1235920545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just how they're displayed & logged < 1235920551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this isn't a script < 1235920554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just modifying LimeChat < 1235920561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(/Applications/LimeChat.app/Contents/Resources/log.rb) < 1235920563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1235920578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so when you upgrade LimeChat you have to do it all again? < 1235920586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun < 1235920587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1235920593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't have to change or remove any lines < 1235920594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just add a few < 1235920613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even so. Using existing scripting hooks tends to be better when possible < 1235920615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they only depend on @nick, @line_type, @body and @time < 1235920620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: there isn't any. also, it took 5 minutes. < 1235920632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a script would probably require extra cruft to hook into that. < 1235920632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course there is a raw hook I can use for almost everything in ERC... < 1235920642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does ERC make you toast in the morning < 1235920650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERC ERC ERC ERC ERC PSOX PSOX PSOX PSOX PSOX < 1235920652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no, why would it be in ERC? < 1235920657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :M-x toast < 1235920661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would ERC be in emacs, a text editor < 1235920670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why would doctor be in emacs < 1235920700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, emacs isn't just a text editor. It is an IDE. < 1235920730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would ERC be in emacs, an integrated development environment < 1235920736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Integrated Digital Environment < 1235920739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1235920739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :answer: emacs is a bloated pos < 1235920753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't restrict myself to Development... < 1235920780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also what about freenode access? Very important for development < 1235920829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idea: hooks that allows you to connect to freenode and join the correct channel based on current buffer mode < 1235920836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like ##c or #python or such < 1235920847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what do you think? < 1235920854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ais523 too ^ < 1235920881 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ridiculous < 1235920885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I like it anyway < 1235920906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I could write a elisp script for it I guess < 1235920914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm too lazy < 1235921007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: < 1235921011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes? < 1235921020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Integrated Digital Environment < 1235921022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I didn't restrict myself to Development... < 1235921024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://xkcd.com/169/ < 1235921032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks < 1235921091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I forgot how that joke was supposed to make sense < 1235921124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ grep -E 'gry$' /usr/share/dict/words < 1235921124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aggry < 1235921124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahungry < 1235921124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :angry < 1235921124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anhungry < 1235921124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hungry < 1235921126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unangry < 1235921128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1235921139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anhungry? < 1235921140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth is that < 1235921161 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "meagry" is meant to be the third < 1235921285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the answer in xkcd still doesn't make sense < 1235921289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no matter how I read it < 1235921665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, ocaml message calls are # < 1235921666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not . < 1235921721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun < 1235921735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno if you can call methods on aclass though < 1235921736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1235921955 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1235921995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan e < 1235921996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1235921998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan* < 1235922055 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (oerja)S((n)S:^):^ < 1235922056 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjannnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnnn ...too much output! < 1235922488 0 :jix!n=jix@77-20-205-106-dynip.superkabel.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1235922700 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523, the answer in xkcd still doesn't make sense < 1235922715 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is that the teller _botched_ the joke < 1235922719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1235922789 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that it's a well-known joke that is botched as often as not, leading to people actually thinking there should be a third word ending in -gry < 1235922826 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that people who botch jokes that badly deserve to have their hands cut off ;/ < 1235922996 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My /usr/share/dict/words only has angry and hungry. < 1235923017 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And by "my", I mean someone else's. < 1235923035 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine also only has angry and hungry. < 1235923040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#include_next < 1235923042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth is that? < 1235923046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :found in internal GCC headers < 1235923048 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's system headers < 1235923055 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're allowed to do weird nonstandard things < 1235923059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, non-standard thing yeah < 1235923066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but what does it mean? < 1235923070 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that it tells gcc to include the limits.h that's found in the search path after this limits.h < 1235923071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you worked on GCC... < 1235923075 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, include the second choice < 1235923085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's strange < 1235923087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the file is syslimits.h < 1235923090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not limits.h < 1235923111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a limits.h there too though < 1235923122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess "not in this directory" rather < 1235923189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm also pretty sure I saw #add_system somewhere to add a system include path.. might not have been in GCC < 1235923277 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((.)S)((X)S::^)((d)S::^)((r)S::^)((a)S::^)((z)S::^)((i)S::^)((M)S::^)^ < 1235923277 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Miiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiii ...too much output! < 1235923364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, okay, I think I've figured out ocaml's object sysem < 1235923376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main problem with obj-c s that everything is ('a option), i.e. any object can be nil < 1235923379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is irritating for this < 1235923401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder if gen_bridge_metadata can analyse that < 1235923601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION digs through 3415 lines of automatically generated xml < 1235923759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this game I installed yesterday has a Brainfuck-based level < 1235923781 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has levels based on all sorts of things, it seems there must be someone who knows brainfuck who submitted a level < 1235923887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what game? < 1235923892 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enigma < 1235923899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha, I guessed Enigma < 1235923902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love that game < 1235923905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know it? < 1235923908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1235923918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it's the first game I played on linux, years ago < 1235923930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :level 103 in the Enigma 1.00 new pack < 1235923990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll reinstall it < 1235924028 0 :jix_!n=jix@77-20-205-106-dynip.superkabel.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1235924091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 1.00 not 1.01? < 1235924112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1235924122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a 1.01 new pack too, but the BF level is in the 1.00 pack < 1235924127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1235924157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1235924161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ most helpful xml evar < 1235924255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print 23 < 1235924255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :genius < 1235924292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1235924295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, this will be hard :D < 1235924340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it actually interprets the BF.. < 1235924402 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1235924442 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1235924442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#113 is evil < 1235924458 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, most of them are evil < 1235924475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, #113 has several layers of evil < 1235924574 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not very good at Enigma < 1235924580 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it should have more easier levels for me to feel good about < 1235924590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was pretty much my thoughts when I played it < 1235924595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I don't really have the concentration to solve most of the harder puzzle levels < 1235924597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm good at the Meditation levels, but that's it < 1235924609 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor the dexterity to solve most of the harder dexterity levels < 1235924659 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way, some of the levels can be solved very quickly by moving very fast at random rather than trying to be intelligent < 1235924672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1235924695 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No Meditation" is an interesting level. < 1235924714 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can Enigma be controlled with a joystick? < 1235924720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check the options < 1235924729 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1235924734 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: you know it too? < 1235924737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, it really gets around < 1235924737 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1235924778 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION apt-gets Enigma < 1235924779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster knows it too < 1235924781 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard puzzle levels? < 1235924784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes. < 1235924787 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is intrigued < 1235924790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you control a ball with your mouse. < 1235924795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you have to.. stuff. < 1235924801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the basic ones are just matching up colour things. < 1235924805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it gets a lot harder. < 1235924816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: http://www.nongnu.org/enigma/ < 1235924818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : anmaster knows it too <-- yes enigma is nice < 1235924826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I propose we designate Enigma as the official game of #esoteric < 1235924829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering this < 1235924832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err no < 1235924833 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I know it from its inclusion in a certain Linux distribution. < 1235924841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, simutrans? < 1235924846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wit < 1235924846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut < 1235924848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc GregorR also play it < 1235924871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also what about freeciv? < 1235924876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't you love it? < 1235924878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1235924882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do < 1235924887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the action! < 1235924890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, give evidence that a lot of #esoteric like simutrans or freeciv and I'll reconsider < 1235924896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and both ais523 and me plays nethack < 1235924897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but enigma is esoteric and we have a lot of people here liking it < 1235924900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ it is geeky < 1235924903 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, now I have to apt-get freeciv as well. < 1235924904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's two people < 1235924913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we have 4 for enigma, atm, + maybe oklopol < 1235924932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm against enigma, I haven't actually played it for about 2 months < 1235924933 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we'll see. < 1235924937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :may be due to all the SIGSEGV < 1235924939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1235924945 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. Do I want SDL or GTK? < 1235924947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it manages to crash randomly < 1235924950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: sdl. < 1235924959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo, they are two different things... < 1235924970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes no sense to replace them with each other < 1235924970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks AnMaster, I'm sure we'd never have guessed < 1235924983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably there's freeciv-{sdl,gtk} < 1235924983 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an SDL version and a GTK version. < 1235924984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1235925000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, one is a GUI toolkit, the other is a media library. sure some feature may be common, but most aren't < 1235925014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1235925018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example sdl-sound? Nothing like it in gtk iirc < 1235925020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :learn to read, please... < 1235925024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1235925030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I said: That makes no sense < 1235925037 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: it's unlikely to make a whole lot of difference < 1235925041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:29 kerlo: There's an SDL version and a GTK version. < 1235925043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it is like that it still makes no sense < 1235925043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OF THE GAME < 1235925047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OF THE GAME YOU IDIOT! Aaaargh < 1235925049 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: obviously it's referring to which toolkit is used to render the graphics < 1235925050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it makes sense!! < 1235925056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no < 1235925059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure there is < 1235925061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because SDL and GTK might be different things < 1235925062 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finally, I must install NetHack. < 1235925063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't make sense < 1235925070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1235925071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what they both have in common is that they can both be used to render graphics < 1235925072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it does < 1235925085 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh great, now there are four of them. < 1235925088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo, flightgear (flight simulator, no shooting, just very geeky) < 1235925091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use it < 1235925103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flight simulators are the epitome of boring < 1235925106 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X11, qt, LISP, or console? < 1235925107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I doubt anyone without a high end GPU would like it < 1235925113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: nethack: console < 1235925116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not qt, it's broken < 1235925118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo, lisp? nethack-lisp? No! < 1235925122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1235925122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :console is best < 1235925123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait < 1235925123 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not lisp as that only works with the emacs nethack client < 1235925123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES < 1235925125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nethack lisp < 1235925127 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1235925127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds- < 1235925129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh. < 1235925132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was getting _all excited_ < 1235925135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nethack-el < 1235925139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard about that < 1235925142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but never "lisp" < 1235925144 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :installing x11 installs both the graphical and console versions < 1235925145 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the X11 one include everything the console one does? < 1235925146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is like very different < 1235925147 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you can just install console < 1235925151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: X11 one is useless < 1235925154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so just install console < 1235925160 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going with X11. :-P < 1235925160 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the graphical one isn't all that good, thoguh < 1235925170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1235925170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graphical nethack is stupid < 1235925172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :defeats the point < 1235925177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: you're just wasting diskspace < 1235925184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :text based nethack == more realism < 1235925189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it sounds strange < 1235925202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they should start with unicode < 1235925220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unihack < 1235925229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unihack-lisp < 1235925231 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many kilobytes am I wasting? < 1235925232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw plain nethack is not good, you need to menucolor patch IMO < 1235925242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nobody /needs/ menucolors < 1235925242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plain nethack is fine yo. < 1235925243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even nao has it < 1235925247 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people just get used to it < 1235925253 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what do you mean "even NAO" < 1235925264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you assuming that NAO is less patched than the average? < 1235925271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there are lots of nice patches that NAO lacks iirc < 1235925285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck nethack patches < 1235925288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate wimpmodes :P < 1235925294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not wimpmode < 1235925304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are patches making it harder too < 1235925352 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apt-get install oh-and-patch-it-for-me-while-youre-at-it < 1235925356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm freedroid-rpg? needs a decent GPU as well as CPU < 1235925357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making nethack harder is ... like. .. um ... making the holocaust more horrific. < 1235925369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, more awesome you mean < 1235925372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and less boring < 1235925377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: NetHack isn't all that hard < 1235925381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making the holocaust more awesome? < 1235925382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean. nethack is too easy < 1235925382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. yes. < 1235925387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slashem... < 1235925388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the holocaust was pretty boring < 1235925388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree < 1235925397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: actually, Spork is more interesting in terms of "hard" < 1235925405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spork has more consistent difficulty than vanilla < 1235925408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slashem's more "more" < 1235925418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, true. slashem is quite unbalanced. for example val in slashem is too easy < 1235925419 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a game full of all sorts of random interesting stuff < 1235925449 0 :tombom!i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1235925462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there is some other one... now what was the name < 1235925486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a nethack clone, other rougelike < 1235925493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not angband or moria or such < 1235925519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes... dungeon crawl stone soup < 1235925525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://crawl-ref.sourceforge.net/ < 1235925528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite nice < 1235925537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but way harder < 1235925541 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crawl's rather different to nethack < 1235925550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more about combat, whereas the combat's secondary in nethack < 1235925550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I would still say it is a rougelike < 1235925556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah < 1235925559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes it's a roguelike < 1235925571 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but crawl and nethack are sort-of opposite ends of the roguelike spectrum < 1235925579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, tell that to all those damn newts that show up when you have 1 hitpoints in nethack :P < 1235925589 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: just tell them "Elbereth" < 1235925595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well true < 1235925597 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. What happens when your desktop has a remote window, you click the close button, and it asks you whether you want to force quit the application? < 1235925601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also stop spoiling it... < 1235925603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for others < 1235925618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that isn't a spoiler, it's in the manual < 1235925630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't seriously claim that things in the manual are spoilers! < 1235925641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what manual... < 1235925655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway the E word helps against most stuff (everything? isn't there some exception for @?) < 1235925687 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not everything < 1235925693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1235925694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but telling you what it didn't would be a spoiler < 1235925698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1235925703 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does X11 have a way to tell the system a client is on to kill the client? < 1235925705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the manual's the guidebook, it should come with every nethack distribution < 1235925720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo, what do you mean? < 1235925765 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I had a window open from a remote server, and a window opened offering me to "force quit" it. < 1235925781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah. I rather stuff you get from the oracle when asking for large and not having the money < 1235925783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1235925786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbiab food < 1235925808 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember whether the force quit window was local or remote, but I think it was local. < 1235925885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: #180 is fun < 1235925899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's random < 1235925904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ly generated < 1235926079 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that ehird isn't talking about xkcd #180 < 1235926338 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that the Enigma options say nothing about a joystick < 1235926495 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes that the joystick doesn't do anything in Enigma < 1235926632 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1235926633 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1235926638 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when does it get interesting? < 1235926649 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did 21 first levels < 1235926666 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tutorial's just designed to teach you the game < 1235926681 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but any of the other puzzle packs get insanely difficult on average from about the third puzzle onwards < 1235926693 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the tutorial"? "puzzle packs"? i see, i see < 1235926697 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1235926698 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see < 1235926701 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's try one of them < 1235926713 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do the BF puzzle, if you like < 1235926720 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's insanely hard for most people but should be easy for esolangers < 1235926721 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where < 1235926738 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :puzzle #103 in the Enigma 1.00 new pack < 1235926921 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay so < 1235926939 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was interesting, technically, yes, but i mean something that's interesting to play < 1235926953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just pick levels at random < 1235926955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll find something < 1235926983 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you just tell me a hard level? < 1235927008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope. < 1235927011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hf < 1235927028 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1235927028 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1235927043 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnrt < 1235927045 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me look for one that I remember as being particularly hard < 1235927054 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. motion was not fun, but mostly just because of my pad. < 1235927062 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay < 1235927078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#38 in Enigma 1.01 new < 1235927085 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay let's see < 1235927092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one of the dexterity-based puzzles < 1235927098 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me look for a hard intelligence-based one too < 1235927111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ocaml is awesome. < 1235927116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best language evar. < 1235927121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, tf < 1235927126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enigma changes my colour profile < 1235927159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : #38 in Enigma 1.01 new < 1235927161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1235927166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.01 isn't very new < 1235927169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1235927172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the name of the pack < 1235927174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is 1.01 new < 1235927175 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Enigma 1.01 new" is the name of the puzzle pack < 1235927183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right those < 1235927217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god THAT #38 < 1235927218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck no < 1235927219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean "DownDown"? < 1235927232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll suggest 58 in Enigma 1.00 new for an intelligence-based puzzle < 1235927236 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well he asked for a hard one < 1235927237 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1235927240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hasn't solved it.. < 1235927256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't it the one where you get crushed? < 1235927262 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1235927268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a pure speed and memory puzzle < 1235927272 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm nowhere near fast enough < 1235927279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, white contrast? < 1235927302 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#102 in Enigma 1.00 new also looks like a pretty hard puzzly puzzle < 1235927337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, have you solved 58 in Enigma 1.00 new (white contrast)? < 1235927365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1235927374 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I only started playing yesterday, I haven't done very many... < 1235927392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#90 in 1.00... < 1235927394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that 102 (Keystone) I solved on easy < 1235927394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw < 1235927395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsolvable < 1235927396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1235927406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, #90 in which pack? < 1235927410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"in 1.00" < 1235927410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh 1.0 < 1235927411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I haven't figured that one at all < 1235927417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says par 3 seconds < 1235927419 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't know if it's unsolvable or not < 1235927420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and top 1 second < 1235927420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, thought it was "in 1.00 seconds"? < 1235927422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it must be trivial < 1235927424 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'll look at the source < 1235927425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't see how < 1235927453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes since when I mouse over it in the level selection list enigma segfaults < 1235927456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes unsolvable < 1235927468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least for me < 1235927474 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: look at the ratings < 1235927477 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :knowledge: 5 < 1235927482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1235927485 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means there's something really obscure but standard on the level < 1235927490 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :puzzles have difficulty ratings < 1235927491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where are the ratings < 1235927496 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i don't think i can do that without a mouse < 1235927498 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pause the game and select level info < 1235927507 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I can't do it even with a mouse < 1235927520 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do i pause? < 1235927521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Difficulty: 26". < 1235927523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ouch. < 1235927526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: esc < 1235927536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: some of the ground looks differen < 1235927536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1235927537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sparkly < 1235927539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1235927539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or cracked < 1235927541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1235927541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or sth < 1235927543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple < 1235927545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't < 1235927546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :explain < 1235927547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it < 1235927549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I noticed < 1235927562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, see the two papers there < 1235927563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read them < 1235927568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I have < 1235927571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then adjust system time < 1235927572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but did you hear what i said? < 1235927574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop spoiling it for us < 1235927576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, look < 1235927578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1235927582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not only can AnMaster not read, he's an ass. < 1235927585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woo. < 1235927586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I missed the line "don't" < 1235927589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw < 1235927592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : explain < 1235927592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it < 1235927595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not "don't" < 1235927600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would have helped on same line < 1235927601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wondered if it was something like that, but didn't want to mess with NTP to check < 1235927603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forgot you have 2 lines of scrollbars, < 1235927604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1235927606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if < 1235927607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you < 1235927607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*scrollback < 1235927610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i feel for you. < 1235927610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't < 1235927612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write < 1235927612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1235927612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this < 1235927617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but rather like this < 1235927619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1235927619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1235927620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1235927622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1235927624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1235927625 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: writing one word a line does make what you say rather hard to read... < 1235927626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1235927633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, exactly < 1235927643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i was being annoying so people paid attention because reading it was harder, and thus the don't would be noticed. < 1235927649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I just checked level source < 1235927666 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I tend not to read people talking like that at all < 1235927670 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it hits my mental spam filters < 1235927676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you must have fun talking to comex < 1235927677 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"one more and you won't get this hammer if you don't need it anynmore!" <<< for some unknown reason the texts are in finnish, what does this mean? < 1235927694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it means that someone's translated the game into finnish < 1235927701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, export LC_ALL=C enigma < 1235927706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's on windows. < 1235927711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume you have realised this by now. < 1235927729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, also it says "one more and you won't get the hammer until you don't need it any more" < 1235927741 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1235927745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it means you either got to move it some other way or solve it without that hammer < 1235927745 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1235927753 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't want your tips < 1235927754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, just change the language. No idea how on windows < 1235927758 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want the text < 1235927772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now this is great... < 1235927776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I run engima under gdb < 1235927779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't segfault < 1235927780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1235927800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, remove the translation file? < 1235927825 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1235927849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :camlp4 is awesome < 1235927851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1235927859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't use gettext... < 1235927860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ? < 1235927865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is that level < 1235927868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ocaml extension that lets you do macros < 1235927871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisp-style < 1235927871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah.. < 1235927876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1235927883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it work for ocaml though? < 1235927891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc ocaml isn't based on writing a parse tree < 1235927892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by parsing ocaml and rewriting the ast < 1235927898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah I see < 1235927908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camlp4 < 1235927909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see the example < 1235927915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Camlp4#Example < 1235927947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh at engimas levels < 1235927955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xml with embedded lua < 1235927958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could it be worse? < 1235927968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :json with embedded python < 1235927976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine the indentation! < 1235927979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, does that even work? < 1235927982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah exactly < 1235927988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, you just have to do \n if ... < 1235927989 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: actually, it's XML with two languages embedded in it < 1235927991 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of which is Lua < 1235927991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the string literals < 1235928001 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the other which is a level description lang that's unique to Enigma < 1235928010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? < 1235928022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, back when I first tried engima levels were pure lua < 1235928038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what is this special language < 1235928049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I have written python like that in gdb more than once < 1235928061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s-expressions with embedded lisp < 1235928062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... wait ... < 1235928065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PyRun_SimpleString("import ...") < 1235928071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hahah < 1235928089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also camel case AND underscore sucks < 1235928098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean... decide, don't mix < 1235928105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes sense sometimes < 1235928108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Module_FunctionName < 1235928113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok < 1235928114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to ModuleFunctionName < 1235928120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case, PyRun is a section of the interpreter < 1235928121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I prefer module_function_name < 1235928133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't ask what you preferred < 1235928136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1235928164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, ocaml overcommits too < 1235928171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.57GB virtual memory usage on all my ocaml instances < 1235928175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& ocaml-using programs < 1235928175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wait this special engima language... < 1235928184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: read the documentation < 1235928188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is it like in /usr/share/games/enigma/levels/enigma_microban/mic_101.xml ? < 1235928189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just describes what objects are where < 1235928197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like it < 1235928203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1235928204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1235928213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1235928220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1235928222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is lua < 1235928225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a version of top(1) < 1235928229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sorts by disk activity? < 1235928230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very non-lua looky < 1235928236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something's klunking my disk < 1235928237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, on Linux? < 1235928243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know about OS X < 1235928243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux/bsd/osx. < 1235928262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well iirc you need some sort of kernel patch to do it on linux < 1235928268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and on bsd there is some tool for it < 1235928272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not top-style < 1235928278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but similar < 1235928288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's really helpful of you. < 1235928290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot the name < 1235928292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iostat? < 1235928306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : disk0 cpu load average < 1235928306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : KB/t tps MB/s us sy id 1m 5m 15m < 1235928307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 15.04 4 0.07 7 3 90 0.52 0.50 0.39 < 1235928311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to know what -processes- is doing it < 1235928313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, check man page < 1235928314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1235928317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1235928320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, they stopped < 1235928322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbiab phone < 1235928626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1235928691 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay beat 58 with better time than ...ideal time? < 1235928716 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that was kinda trivial.) < 1235928735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you beat the world record? < 1235928766 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err i kinda doubt it < 1235928770 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1235928786 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says something about "ideal time", i don't know the english term. < 1235928812 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my time 2:03 < 1235928815 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :world record :43 < 1235928824 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1235928829 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should try beating that. < 1235928840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ideal time = par < 1235928856 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: try ]102 < 1235928858 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*#102 < 1235928896 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ah yes < 1235928915 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i can't beat that with this mouse it seems, at least with my current technique < 1235928923 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: same pack? < 1235928927 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries < 1235928927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1235929297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://muaddibspace.blogspot.com/2009/03/how-to-halve-number.html < 1235929304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Halving a number in N easy steps. < 1235929344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ < 1235929344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The international community cannot appreciate enough that an age old question that drove many mathematicians mad or into private and financial ruin has finally been solved. Trivia tell us that even Ramanujan failed to solve the famous "halving a number" problem and still in 2002 Faltings is quoted with the remark "currently no one has an idea how to attack it and I strongly believe that any solution will provide profound new insights". < 1235929348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :While the correctness of the proof is still debated number theorists all over the world feel inspired to solve the next harder problem: finding the third of a number. < 1235929351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :]] < 1235929353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- reddit comment < 1235929380 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : today is actually wednesday in finland < 1235929384 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can someone confirm or deny? < 1235929405 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can confirm that < 1235929406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: quick we need information < 1235929413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you are a finn? OMG. < 1235929414 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, did you mean truthfully? < 1235929419 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1235929431 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"..." < 1235929449 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah this is Special Wednesday < 1235929490 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (X)(d)(r)(a)(z)(i)(M)(()(:S)(!~*^:a~^))(~:^a~:*a~*~a~*a~^**a~a~*~a~*~a*^~^):a~^ < 1235929490 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MiizzzzaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX ...out of stack! < 1235929496 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1235929512 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i solve the puzzle, and get stuck because there's a tiny extra puzzle too :D < 1235929516 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\o/ < 1235929528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mizzle to the izzle to tah ard to tha ex < 1235929546 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i say those guys are too clever by half < 1235929555 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX: that's a neat little program < 1235929615 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I don't know how to stop the iteration. See I ran out of stack. < 1235929631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1235929639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm thinking about linked lists in unlambda again < 1235929642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you clearly need is fold < 1235929646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fold can implement map and iteration < 1235929651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, the list has to be: < 1235929659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(func)(list of a b c)^ < 1235929660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1235929668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1235929672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(func)x(list of a b c)^ < 1235929679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it says something about "ideal time", i don't know the english term. < 1235929681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :par < 1235929682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1235929683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c x func b func a func < 1235929684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1235929686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad translation < 1235929687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: too late. < 1235929689 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ehird already told me < 1235929690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i told him hours ago. < 1235929692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1235929695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hours? < 1235929705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he said that like 15 minutes ago < 1235929707 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, he told me exactly 2 hours, 46 minutes ago < 1235929712 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: except that is at least O(n) for everything, even head and tail < 1235929723 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, but he just reminded me he had already told me. < 1235929733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1235929742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: so what, it's underload :P < 1235929760 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er you said unlambda < 1235929800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :errr right < 1235929801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1235929802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant underload < 1235929964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://muaddibspace.blogspot.com/2009/03/how-to-halve-number.html <-- written in some theorem proving language? < 1235929973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one < 1235929975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coq. < 1235929979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1235929980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's for theorem masturbation. < 1235929984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://instantrimshot.com/ < 1235929998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flash missing < 1235930002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1235930004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just imagine it. < 1235930006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In your head. < 1235930032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I know how a rimshot on a drum sounds... < 1235930043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have to imagine the button. < 1235930047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imagine yourself clicking the button. < 1235930058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what button? < 1235930075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The big red one. < 1235930082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k... where? < 1235930091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in your head. < 1235930105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a big red button in my head? < 1235930107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1235930123 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: okay that was trivial < 1235930133 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just failed a few times, in very weird ways < 1235930152 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(somehow managed to drop the magic stone just when i was about to solve it, or it just vanished :D) < 1235930173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, level and pack? < 1235930183 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err was it 103 < 1235930201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay enigma crashed under gdb... < 1235930203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets see < 1235930208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :question marks < 1235930209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fck < 1235930218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the backtrace is two frames with question marks < 1235930221 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: #197 doesn't look insanely hard, but it does look insanely time-consuming < 1235930222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so corrupted stack < 1235930222 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, if there are any actually hard levels, feel free to tell me, those two were trivial (the one with the swapping stones was pretty interesting though) < 1235930232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, in which pack... < 1235930259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#20 in Enigma 1.00 I can't figure out what you have to do at all < 1235930264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I don't know if it's hard or easy < 1235930266 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well i don't really have the time even for this, i just want to see if there's anything actually hard < 1235930274 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean you did say the levels get insanely hard < 1235930286 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you're just much better at them than I am < 1235930288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh print 23? < 1235930291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are in 1.0 < 1235930293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1235930293 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i can't even solve the rubik's cube, so if i can solve a level, it can't be that hard :| < 1235930294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trivial < 1235930296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bf :) < 1235930305 0 :Hiato!n=1@dsl-245-24-250.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1235930312 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i can try < 1235930326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I solved print 23 in 21 seconds < 1235930341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better than par < 1235930361 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well good for you, i don't use my mousepad all that fast. < 1235930382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : #20 in Enigma 1.00 I can't figure out what you have to do at all <-- it says I solved it, must have been long ago... no idea how I did it < 1235930385 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i guess you're just not much good at group work < 1235930396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't figure it out now < 1235930409 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: hmm? < 1235930421 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know the basics of group theory < 1235930443 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then rubik's cube should be simple ;) < 1235930451 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1235930456 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohh! < 1235930484 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah! permutations are a group < 1235930488 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I just did #20, I figured what had to be done < 1235930498 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: damn, i haven't even started yet < 1235930499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I solved it before, I don't remember < 1235930501 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION starts < 1235930506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, tell me in /query... < 1235930511 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a knowledge puzzle < 1235930658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1235930663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1235930803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow ocaml sucks at strings < 1235930827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1235930839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, there's not even a string-replace function < 1235930880 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: OCaml isn't Perl, nor does it remotely try to be < 1235930891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1235930896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but every language has a basic string-replace. < 1235930914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, can't you write one iterating over the string? < 1235930925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also not every language < 1235930925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha! ocaml batteries included to the rescue < 1235930929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example bf doesn't have it < 1235930935 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#20 doesn't seem to make much sense < 1235930936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 1) yes, but I don't want to 2) stop being so damn trivial < 1235930944 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it make sense but i'm just not seeing it? < 1235930955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, it is possible to solve < 1235930960 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I solved it just now < 1235930960 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it is < 1235930962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :val replace : str:string -> sub:string -> by:string -> bool * string < 1235930962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :replace ~str ~sub ~by returns a tuple constisting of a boolean and a string where the first occurrence of the string sub within str has been replaced by the string by. The boolean is true if a subtitution has taken place. < 1235930963 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not what i asked < 1235930967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^___________________^ < 1235930969 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for whether it makes sense, there are a couple of subtle clues < 1235930970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, yay. < 1235930974 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1235930978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, it does make sense when you know what to do < 1235930979 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i'll look for them < 1235930983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? < 1235930985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1235930986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1235931091 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1235931216 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can you tell me the clues in pm? < 1235931221 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i solved it < 1235931227 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm still not seeing wtf that was about < 1235931662 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay i'm gonna go read, will read logs for level tips < 1235932427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1235932432 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (?)(value)(func)^ produces (value2) then < 1235932433 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(?)...(?)(?)(value)(func)(a~a*~a*~a*^a~a*~a*^:a~a*~a*~a*^^a~a*~a*^:^):^ < 1235932433 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :produces < 1235932433 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(?)...(?)(value2)(func)(a~a*~a*~a*^a~a*~a*^:a~a*~a*~a*^^a~a*~a*^:^):^ < 1235932438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX: zwut < 1235932444 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fold < 1235932450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1235932455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but , how do you store elements in that list < 1235932463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that's kind of verbose per list < 1235932487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's underload, what did you expect? < 1235932493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, any progress on Feather? < 1235932498 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, RL-busy < 1235932513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ok, how goes that VHDL stuff? < 1235932529 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's finished, I'm focusing on my OCaml project now < 1235932563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so how did the VHDL stuff end? as you planned? < 1235932568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you told me < 1235932578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what are you doing in ocaml? < 1235932589 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the VHDL stuff ended as intended < 1235932592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I got 95% for that module < 1235932603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that is good? < 1235932607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the OCaml stuff is the imperative -> functional -> behavioural -> hardware compile chain < 1235932614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :behavioural? < 1235932621 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: VHDL-style < 1235932625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1235932632 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm working on some technicalities on the functional stage of the chain < 1235932632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so this builds on the previous work? < 1235932636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to add some more stuff? < 1235932654 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's completely separate < 1235932658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see < 1235932664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in fact uses Verilog not VHDL < 1235932667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you won't reuse anything then? < 1235932669 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not working on that bit < 1235932678 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, that's actually against university rules for some reason < 1235932682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1235932686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but reusing wouldn't help, they're utterly different projects < 1235932692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, didn't the other project do mostly the same? < 1235932698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compile to vhdl < 1235932700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, no < 1235932705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other project was me writing in VHDL < 1235932709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1235932716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, then I confused them < 1235932724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy to do < 1235932737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what exactly then did you write in VHDL? < 1235932739 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you don't have to deal with an insane door most days... < 1235932749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1235932760 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a hardware self-routing packet-switching fabric for fixed packet lengths < 1235932762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such door conditions can cause a lot of stress. < 1235932769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :talk about outlawing them < 1235932782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zero tolerance < 1235932803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(is that last one a Swedishism?) < 1235932811 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's used in loads of languages < 1235932815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1235932815 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty common in English too < 1235932818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1235932832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it still sounds like politician talk < 1235932836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in Swedish < 1235932901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is politician talk < 1235932916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, crazy pseudo-fascist politician talk. by which I mean, umm, all of them. < 1235932938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1235932954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(HOW CAN YOU TELL MY POLITICAL LEANINGS BY WHAT IM WRITING??????????????) < 1235932979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, Left wing? < 1235932986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a reference to a bash.org quote < 1235932998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? which one? < 1235932998 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's on reddit, must be libertarian :D < 1235933004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oh god no < 1235933011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm. Not socialist? < 1235933011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: dunno, couldn't find it with google < 1235933019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/MY POLITICAL LEANINGS/IM 13/ < 1235933023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was the original < 1235933045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because you said you were 13... < 1235933050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is why < 1235933055 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty hard i'd say < 1235933062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please tell me you're misinterpreting on purpose, AnMaster < 1235933070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, correct. < 1235933088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: was that a general sanity pleading, or just an IRP command? < 1235933095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both. < 1235933103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter enables the former < 1235933133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, from your writing I would otherwise have guessed maybe 15 years now. Your writing a year ago? 13 NOMADS... < 1235933134 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLEASE IGNORE THIS COMMAND < 1235933150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hey, I still enjoy a good monad every once in a whil < 1235933151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1235933160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the average age people think I am is around 20 < 1235933165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes but you write it monad < 1235933178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no nomads are a type of monad < 1235933183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are the most ninjarist of all monads. < 1235933188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have an additional operation < 1235933191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yes you know a lot more than many of your age. I mean a 13 year old programming in haskell isn't common < 1235933205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ninja : m (m (m a -> a) -> m (m a)) -> flip out and kill people < 1235933209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/:/::/ < 1235933226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sometimes you act a bit silly which gives it away. Have to talk to you a lot before it is noticeable < 1235933238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, do you act as grown up outside IRC btw? < 1235933241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :old people never act silly < 1235933242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just ask oerjan < 1235933252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what's your definition of "old"? < 1235933255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, when they do they do it differently < 1235933261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anything older than me < 1235933261 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, it's hormonally impossible < 1235933279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I act silly sometimes, just normally in RL rather than on the internet < 1235933283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i'm much the same, except about a million times more shy < 1235933293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, You. Shy? < 1235933294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth < 1235933295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 is so much saner and more respectable than Alex Smith.. < 1235933299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah go figure right < 1235933303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hah < 1235933310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's some reversal < 1235933330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1235933333 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan and Ørjan Johansen are both completely bonkers, alas < 1235933346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: me outside is a laugh, i take the optimal path to avoid people < 1235933348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ouch. < 1235933373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you have more published papers than me, though < 1235933380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, actually I often did that too.. Slightly less so nowdays. < 1235933398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: people's eyes seeing you, even in the corner, erodes your skin. < 1235933400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true fact. < 1235933402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, You are Norwegian... *ducks* < 1235933421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, really? < 1235933423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1235933426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1235933444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"PHP stopped being php when they turned off short-tags by default. It has got too enterprisy. We need need a new fresh PHP." < 1235933447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so you act like a normal teenager then :P < 1235933448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haahahhaahaahahahhahaahahhhhhhahhahahahahahaha < 1235933457 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PHP used shorttags? < 1235933457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :short-tags? < 1235933461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1235933462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1235933464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1235933465 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1235933465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vs < 1235933467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XDDD < 1235933468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1235933469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was so hoping it was < 1235933474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too < 1235933479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, except without the General Mishmash Cloud of Random Acquaintences common to teenagers < 1235933492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah I never had that either < 1235933501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, looks like we are similar ;) < 1235933505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shudder* < 1235933507 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, one of my lecturers here specifically warned me about norwegians < 1235933519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, really? on what grounds? < 1235933526 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he told me and everyone else in my year to never allow norwegians to con us into eating raw fish < 1235933533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :norwegians, muslins, what's the difference? < 1235933534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1235933540 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cackles evilly < 1235933544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently he was the victim of such a scheme in the past < 1235933545 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, raw? < 1235933551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1235933557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lutfisk isn't raw is it? < 1235933558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: IT'S CALLED LUTEFISK STUPID < 1235933562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :horrible yes but not raw < 1235933568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1235933588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, just thinking about lutefisk kills me < 1235933589 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does dried cod count as raw? < 1235933592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yeah I guess he was badly damaged for life from it < 1235933598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can you eat that stuff < 1235933626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, Sweden has surströmming as well as lutfisk.... No idea how anyone can eat either < 1235933643 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks eating dried cod brings out his inner dog < 1235933644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Sweden it is mostly old people who eat it, those who grew up with it < 1235933644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :british food may be boring as hell, but it's not fish in lye < 1235933657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for that i salute i < 1235933658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1235933667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, your cakes are very dry iirc < 1235933670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least some of them < 1235933685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true that is not as bad as fish in lye < 1235933687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: apparently britain is the only place that has a lot of biscuits < 1235933689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :confirm/deny? < 1235933702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean like digestive biscuits and stuff. < 1235933707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, not sure.. We have a lot of biscuits here. < 1235933712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Digestive_biscuits.jpg < 1235933713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this kind of thing < 1235933716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cookies? < 1235933719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of < 1235933726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits for firefox to load < 1235933749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, on the other hand, US/UK culture got everywhere nowdays < 1235933759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1235933763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cultural imperialism < 1235933775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I don't know < 1235933782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe once it was true < 1235933795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nowdays I know such stuff is rather common here too < 1235933842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, + my mother rather likes some English food < 1235933846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like scones < 1235933869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scones are nice < 1235933889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I may have experienced more than average English food < 1235933897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah < 1235933901 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone likes scones, or ought to < 1235933905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hwh < 1235933906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*heh < 1235933913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be a law < 1235933913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, with whipped cream. < 1235933915 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're traditionally very upper-class < 1235933919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Everyone SHALL like scones." < 1235933924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? < 1235933926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1235933931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, that's traditionally < 1235933937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scones aren't exactly an uncommon thing < 1235933940 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, the traditions tend not to match reality < 1235933947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1235933947 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not like they're expensive or anything < 1235933965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1235934916 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: eso-std.org has been squatted, by the way < 1235934925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1235934925 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and parked < 1235934926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome :D < 1235934932 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's full of links about STDs < 1235934936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and also ISO standards < 1235934939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they've got it to a T < 1235934956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this is good, think how much money they're wastign registering names like that :P < 1235934963 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not enough :( < 1235934968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, hm < 1235934970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This domain has expired < 1235934971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will be deleted in the next few days. If you are the owner of this domain, you still have a chance to renew it. < 1235934977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can actually renew it now from mydomain < 1235934982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they're just milking it before deleting it < 1235934986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it hasn't been squatted by a third party < 1235934987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, they must be using the 5-day park thing < 1235934988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just my registrar... < 1235934996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you can register a domain for 5 days without paying < 1235935000 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not entirely sure why it exists < 1235935002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1235935018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its only use seems to have been for parking and squatting < 1235935037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I doubt it'll be squatted in a few days < 1235935066 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Squatters watch domain name expiration logs, they usually squat within 10-15 minutes of a record expiring. < 1235935082 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bug in the previous fold. Here is a corrected example: < 1235935082 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (X)(d)(r)(a)(z)(i)(M)((:S)(!))(:^~:*a~a*a~a*~a*^~^*^)(a~a*~a*~a*^a~a*~a*^:a~a*~a*~a*^a~a*~a*^^a~a*~a*^:^):^ < 1235935083 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MiizzzzaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddddXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX ...out of stack! < 1235935104 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1235935114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX: termination = (), maybe < 1235935114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1235935119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1235935122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no way to detect that < 1235935126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't help, you need a list to be atomic on the stack < 1235935163 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for Underload, the easiest list format I know of is ((1)((2)((3)((4)((5)()))))) < 1235935174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how do you process that? < 1235935182 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Underlambda's going to have commands to manipulate lists of the form ((1)(2)(3)(4)(5)) < 1235935185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't detect end of list, certainly < 1235935187 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you process it using ^ and ! < 1235935198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh huh < 1235935200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can detect end of list < 1235935202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how < 1235935207 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an empty list is () < 1235935215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that pushes 0 items onto the stack < 1235935215 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1235935225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a nonempty list always pushes exactly 2 items onto the stack < 1235935235 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back < 1235935255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can do ^!!^, and either the first or third stack element runs < 1235935278 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the basic definition is, a list pushes its car and its cdr onto the stack, nil pushes nothing) < 1235935316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... that doesn't help if your list items aren't executable. < 1235935326 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it does < 1235935344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A list containing just x is ((x)()) < 1235935355 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the contents of the first paren are never executed < 1235935360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just popped < 1235935365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the paren containing the x < 1235935367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1235935375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how could you map? < 1235935399 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to loop over the elements of the list < 1235935416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not trivial to write, but it doesn't come out excessively complex < 1235935519 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I developed a meta-language while writing the fold: A ("append") = ~a*, P ("prepend") = ~a~*, W ("wrap") = a, E ("exec") = ^ ... so bubbling up the nth element on the stack becomes: WA{n-2}E < 1235935558 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait... WA{n-2}E was reverse the top n elements < 1235935575 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WPPPPAE was bring to top < 1235935626 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1235935745 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x)(y)(z)(w)WPPAE -> (x)(y)(z)((w))PPAE -> (x)(y)((z)(w))AE -> (x)((y)(z)(w))AE -> ((y)(z)(w)(x))E -> (y)(z)(w)(x) < 1235935784 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fold is (?)...(?)(?)(value)(func)(WAAAEWAAE:WAAAEWAAEEWAAE:^):^ < 1235935844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://vimeo.com/1715318 <-- this video is awesome, especially the bit around half way through (don't skip to it, it'll spoil it) < 1235936452 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last picture looked like a fetus < 1235936674 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1235936703 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Sneep!" < 1235936707 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=arvid@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1235937384 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX: i'm pretty sure that was the point < 1235937392 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't you follow the story at all :| < 1235937397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1235937706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sweet, ocaml 3.11 has comprehensions < 1235937707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[? i*i | i <- 1 -- 100 ; i mod 2 = 0] < 1235938564 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH SNAP < 1235938570 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's so new and innovative < 1235938602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all you ever do is bitch, bsmntbombdood < 1235938608 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1235938615 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least i'm dependable < 1235938617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you want #bitch < 1235938693 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one there < 1235938700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you are there < 1235938704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can listen to yourself. < 1235939077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:45:34 AnMaster: you know what continuations are right? < 1235939077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:45:47 ehird, I think I know, if they are what I think < 1235939078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:45:52 ie, anonymous method < 1235939080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:45:58 that can be passed around < 1235939121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that must have been ages ago < 1235939130 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um it was this morning < 1235939130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2008-03-31 < 1235939136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, no < 1235939138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: XD < 1235939140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah ages ago < 1235939143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's oklopol < 1235939144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was kidding < 1235939154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes and I ignore that fact < 1235939157 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :US ADULTS NEVER KID < 1235939162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah you're 20 < 1235939163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ancient < 1235939176 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we just lie < 1235939474 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1235941522 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1235943060 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@a-72.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1235943096 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dark rum, or single malt scotch? < 1235943106 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't like rum < 1235943112 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so scotch < 1235943115 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i prefer bourbon < 1235943235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :water < 1235943256 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey guys i need a new computer < 1235943258 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what should i get? < 1235943266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :raw transisitors < 1235943284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*transistors < 1235943900 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1235944762 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@65.183.185.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1235944928 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Peace and Protection 4.22.2" < 1235945735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://twitter.com/mrxtothaz/status/1266000157 <- Xzibit attempts own meme, fails. < 1235946206 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1235946861 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1235947193 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@65.183.185.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1235947771 0 :DH__!n=DHeadsho@cpc4-woki2-0-0-cust746.glfd.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1235947824 0 :DH__!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1235951044 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also need a new computer. What should I get? < 1235951262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :transistors < 1235951270 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An analytical engine < 1235951871 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1235951935 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need 2-4 cores, 4-8gb memory, 1-2 tb of disk (to be raid1ed), no need for video < 1235951947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :transistors < 1235951960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I am doubting you _need_ all that, just _want_. < 1235951999 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1235952208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.................. < 1235953183 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wanting is just another kind of need < 1235957048 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1235957674 0 :FireyFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1235957796 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1235957800 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :FireFly < 1235958749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1235959318 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, at least you're trying to be nice to goethe < 1235959667 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1235959991 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1235959991 0 :Robdgreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1235959999 0 :Robdgreat!i=rob@unaffiliated/robdgreat JOIN :#esoteric < 1235959999 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1235960033 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1235960939 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1235966704 0 :MizardX-!i=MizardX@92.254.128.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1235966704 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1235966763 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@92.254.128.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1235966828 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1235967826 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1235970191 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuyqwe@bas2-toronto47-1242398954.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1235971616 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :QuirkyMonkey < 1235974050 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"want" is to "need" as "theory" is to "fact" ... once you start getting technical, they're all the same :P < 1235974256 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1235976649 0 :QuirkyMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :GreaseMonkey < 1235976786 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1235978167 0 :psygnisfive!n=psygnisf@c-71-57-164-119.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1235980102 0 :jix!n=jix@paed-gw.schule.bremen.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1235980799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1235980800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1235981770 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-0-153.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1235982588 0 :tombom!i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1235983113 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Computer has gone to sleep" < 1235983213 0 :jix!n=jix@paed-gw.schule.bremen.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1235983554 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"..." < 1235985301 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Client Excited" < 1235985988 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> print hex(id(257)) < 1235985990 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0xb713d8 < 1235985992 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> print hex(id(258)) < 1235985994 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0xb713d8 < 1235985996 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> 257 is 258 < 1235985998 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :False < 1235986068 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> print hex(id(257)),hex(id(258)) < 1235986068 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0xb713d8 0xb713cc < 1235986217 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-5 to 256 is cached. The rest is subject to garbage collection and reallocation. < 1235986294 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so? < 1235986339 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To speed up calculation, store every number to be used in some collection. :) < 1235987685 0 :DH__!n=DHeadsho@eduroam-30-139.rdg.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1235987727 0 :DH__!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1235987735 0 :DH__!n=DHeadsho@eduroam-30-139.rdg.ac.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1235988422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.makelinux.net/kernel_map < 1235988425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1235993729 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1235995276 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=arvid@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1235997705 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.121 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236001873 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Bittifying" < 1236002488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :02:01 comex: well, at least you're trying to be nice to goethe < 1236002492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :itym /query ehird < 1236002531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nice page apart from the "ISRAEL IS AWESOME" link in the bottom right. < 1236002539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, indeed < 1236002548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I didn't notice that link before btw < 1236002563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was so busy looking at the interesting map < 1236002574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should put like, a link supporting pedophillia in the corner of all my highly interesting technical documents < 1236002581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then nobody will criticize any part apart from that one < 1236002594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1236002666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://linuxdriver.co.il/israel/hamas_and_press <- hamas are evil, black and wear green headbands. < 1236002668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ic < 1236002681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, their children are shaped like elongated eggs < 1236002878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1236002909 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236002960 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1236002967 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-085-216-041-121.hsi.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1236003643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://www.linuxjournal.com/content/linuxdna-supercharges-linux-intel-cc-compiler < 1236003760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, AMD here < 1236003773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't icc work for amd? < 1236003779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah but it is slower than gcc < 1236003781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on amd < 1236003782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236003798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it isn't like Intel have any interest in making it good on amd... < 1236003802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1236003807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's pretty bad, since gcc is one of the slowest compilers... < 1236003847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, slowest as in compile time or generating slow code? Or both? < 1236003852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :latter < 1236003862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although gcc(1)'s execution time is pretty dismal, I don't know how that compares to others < 1236003874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, iirc clang is a lot faster. < 1236003881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course it is far from ready yet < 1236003884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, clang(1) is faster < 1236003889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tcc is way way faster btw... < 1236003898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it only does basic constant folding iirc < 1236003900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, gcc's generated code pales in comparison to the vast majority of other compilers, iirc < 1236003904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mostly commercial) < 1236003907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, true < 1236003920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a bit better in recent versions however < 1236003943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, compare GCC 3.4 to GCC 4.3 for example... < 1236003957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only have 4.0.1 < 1236003972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's what comes with Apple's latest devtools, and I could upgrade it manually but I wouldn't get apple's mods < 1236003988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't feel like finding out if it'd break something < 1236004006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have 3.4.6, 4.1.2, 4.2.1, 4.3. < 1236004016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: incidentally, I experienced an insanely bad bug in my gcc yesterday < 1236004019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in major breakage < 1236004028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if I give you a console log you can explain it? < 1236004030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's very simple < 1236004030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, only archlinux would make a compiler hit stable a few days after it was released... < 1236004040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure < 1236004042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me < 1236004050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and file a bug after checking the last gcc ;) < 1236004054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4.0.1 is kind of old < 1236004061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's almost certainly not a gcc bug < 1236004084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also llvm-gcc uses apple mods. llvm-gcc is on 4.2.1 currently iirc < 1236004115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apple have heavily invested in llvm so I'm not surprised < 1236004119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1236004129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so what is this bug you hit? < 1236004133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://pastie.org/404648.txt?key=kjkf82sgtymwyt44eapphq < 1236004140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :warning: your eyes will pop out in shock at the WTFiness < 1236004142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :key? < 1236004144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1236004157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I set it as a private paste so it doesn't show up in the recent pastes list < 1236004175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236004183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but yeah, surely the cpp can't be THAT horrifically broken?!?! < 1236004190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236004197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, something is wrong yes. < 1236004207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :terribly wrong.. < 1236004212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe (haven't checked) cpp standalone defaults to --traditional or something? < 1236004221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the opposite of --traditional? < 1236004234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, this works on a recent version of gcc/linux, so I doubt that < 1236004248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, don't know, and don't remember if the exact option name was that. Was just trying to come up with a hypothesis < 1236004261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks man page now < 1236004292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I looked < 1236004297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but couldn't find anything relevant < 1236004310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the person who tested it on linux thinks it's apple shipping a broken gcc < 1236004319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I find it hard to believe their gcc team is that incompetent < 1236004335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, my cpp does it correctly < 1236004339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4.1.2 < 1236004341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nod. < 1236004349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ cpp --version < 1236004349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpp (GCC) 4.1.2 20070214 ( (gdc 0.24, using dmd 1.020)) (Gentoo 4.1.2 p1.1) < 1236004356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236004358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's your gdc cpp < 1236004360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? lol < 1236004363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no < 1236004368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"( (gdc 0.24, using dmd 1.020))" < 1236004374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the same version string is appeneded to all of gcc < 1236004375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1236004377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236004380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :extremely stupid yes < 1236004383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you're meant to install gdc separately :P < 1236004401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm? Just turned on the d useflag for GCC < 1236004408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, that's wrong < 1236004415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're meant to have a separate gcc called gdc < 1236004426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I do, but all are built at once < 1236004427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems < 1236004431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1236004431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1236004467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I mean it builds g++, gcc, gfortan, gdc, whatever-the-objc-one-is-called < 1236004484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--enable-languages=c,c++,d,objc,treelang,fortran < 1236004489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1236004489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to gcc -v < 1236004496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, gdc is obsolete anyway < 1236004511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah, so is this gcc and your mom :P < 1236004533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that's literally; the creator of the d language has said about as much and the last release was in 2070 < 1236004535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*2007 < 1236004557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+/- 63 years < 1236004577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite < 1236004660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, did you know gdb includes large part of binutils in the source tarball? < 1236004672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but I am not surprised. < 1236004701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and that gcc has it's own modified copy of libtool included? < 1236004705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, #macosx is so pointless to be in. it's all random chatter about bullshit and cannabis, and not one bit of os x talk < 1236004709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for internal use during building < 1236004723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know this because I left it on when going to sleep so I have a full nightsworth of logs. < 1236004735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: O_O < 1236004745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, that is because everything just works on OS X, so they have nothing else to talk about ;P < 1236004763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1236004835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh and that gcc use autoconf but not automake. < 1236004848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not surprising < 1236004858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc's fucked up enough that automake would probably be impossible < 1236004874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1236004887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's enough to make kernighan disown C... < 1236004890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, actually some parts of it use automake < 1236004923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libjava, libstdc++ and a few other < 1236004927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nost most parts < 1236004938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which reminds me that I was going to write an article on how to kern Han characters and sign it Brian W Kerninghan < 1236004965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that pun is too bad even for me to say it... < 1236004969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1236004985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err that was not grammatically correct, was it? < 1236005032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it might be technically correc < 1236005032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1236005035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was very awkawrd < 1236005036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*awkward < 1236005044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'that pun is too bad for me to even say it' would be more idiomatic < 1236005048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, I know that's less logic < 1236005048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :al < 1236005073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err that wouldn't be the same < 1236005078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1236005094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one of the most ridiculous idioms < 1236005106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first one implied it was so bad it was even worse than my bad jokes :P < 1236005112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so does mine < 1236005122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just an unintuitive idiom < 1236005154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm ok... it *seems* to mean that it is so bad that I would never say it (and not implying in any way that I make bad jokes) < 1236005173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1236005184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: try 'that pun is too bad for even me to say it' < 1236005195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1236005362 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even pun, that too bad is, for me to say it is. Even. < 1236005380 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope I didn't miss any words. < 1236005425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pun bad too is me say even for < 1236005492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, another cool thing: valgrind itself doesn't use system libc, but has it's own one that it uses internally. And then I'm not talking about redirecting malloc() and such... < 1236005496 0 :Asztal^_^!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the original, "that pun is too bad even for me to say it...", seemed fine to me < 1236005506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: O_O < 1236005514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal^_^: 'even for me to' is bad < 1236005521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, iirc it can't use system libc since it need to do stuff before libc is loaded < 1236006323 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : aaabdeeefhiimnnooooprsstttttuvy. Now the letters are more ordered. < 1236006323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, for more info see docs/internals/why-no-libc.txt in the valgrind source tarball < 1236006323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd use valgrind if it supported my platform < 1236006323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah, but porting valgrind isn't easy < 1236006323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering it does all sort of strange tricks < 1236006323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1236006323 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darwin/x86 is marked "high" in valgrind's "porting plans" priority table. Dated Feb 1, 2007. Lacking suitably interested people, I guess. < 1236006323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1236006323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe you could help! < 1236006323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm not too hot on the internal details of Darwin/Mach < 1236006323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1236006324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm it would probably be harder than porting to other *nix on x86 since you can't reuse the ELF stuff even < 1236006324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236006324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't valgrind work on freebsd iirc? < 1236006324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think so < 1236006324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though iirc it works better on linux < 1236006324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still saddens me that we even need tools like valgrind, being able to leak memory shouldn't be something you can do by accident... < 1236006324 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand: "There are experimental ppc32/darwin and x86/FreeBSD ports for Valgrind 2.X. They could be made to work with 3.X with some effort." < 1236006324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or use uninitialised variables? < 1236006324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've followed a "with some effort" pointer before, fizzie. That way lies madness. < 1236006324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or have tread race conditions < 1236006324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thread* < 1236006324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what the fuck is an uninitialized variable anyway < 1236006324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variables store a value < 1236006324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from a theoretical point of view, an uninitialized variable is just ridiculous < 1236006324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, in C it is like this: int foo(int bar) { int quux; return quux + bar; } < 1236006324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, well, that's C for you < 1236006324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i presume it made sense in the 70s < 1236006324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, true. Valgrind is for languages like C and C++ < 1236006324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and gets() also made sense in the 70s... < 1236006324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are still used < 1236006324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no way gets() made sense even back then < 1236006324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it did < 1236006324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :explain please... < 1236006324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you didn't listen to the program when it told you to enter up to 30 characters you got fired < 1236006328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because your job was to operate the programs < 1236006332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1236006344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there weren't any malicious users < 1236006347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like trying to break your toaster < 1236006350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do it, but who does < 1236006373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they were network connected I'm sure we would have lots of toaster hackers... < 1236006385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now THAT'S some criminal activity I could get into < 1236006388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then you can break someone else' toaster... < 1236006399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i pwnt ur toaster" < 1236006406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"now it burnz all your bread. and ur hand." < 1236006406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone else's? < 1236006408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what < 1236006409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"HAHAHAHAHAHA" < 1236006433 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure spammers would hack toasters to burn viagra ads to all bread. < 1236006452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should just burn the viagra into the bread. < 1236006452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you got a dangerous mind... < 1236006461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Now you've had a sneak peek, why not buy some more?" < 1236006470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1236006476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway. < 1236006481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"someone else's"? < 1236006483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm more worried about the unholy scramjet-equipped cyborg pigeons, an abomination against nature. < 1236006486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or how do you say that... < 1236006488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone else's is valid syntax. < 1236006499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, really? it looks very weird < 1236006505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to me < 1236006508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236006513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what looks odd to be is omitting the s after s' < 1236006513 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SEP field is the Somebody Else's Problem field. < 1236006522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, true that looks worse < 1236006530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my brain doesn't mentally parse the invisible s < 1236006538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but trying saying it out loud? < 1236006542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the s < 1236006542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet most style guides recommend it < 1236006545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: sure, you repeat the s < 1236006549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Joneses" < 1236006557 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come to think of it, I haven't seen any programmable-image toasters, just boring fixed-image ones. Certainly in 2009 it should be possible to read toast-pictures from an USB stick or something. < 1236006562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure, but to me it seems weird after "else" < 1236006569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shrug < 1236006576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't a noun or pronoun (sp?). < 1236006577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"elseses" < 1236006589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's a (pronoun*) < 1236006594 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elsifs. < 1236006596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pointer dereferencing is implicit < 1236006610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also scramjet is fun... < 1236006630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Things you should know: the Illuminati is run by reptilian astral entities known throughout history as Djinn, Nagas, Sheti, Angels/Demons, Dragons, Drucul etc. that rule the higher echelons of Freemasonry and do foul sex&torture rituals usually with young children getting eaten. They'll probably stage terror attacks soon, then will come an American union(WW3 too) & a staged alien invasion w/Draconian-saviours! Get storable food, support Stewart Swerd < 1236006631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :low, Alex Jones, Dr.Deagle & David Icke!" < 1236006633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— Youtube < 1236006638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks for the info. < 1236006651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much shorter travel time for Europe-US could you get with a scramjet aircraft? < 1236006655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to a Concorde or such < 1236006661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: scramjet cyborg pigeon? < 1236006665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they travel faster than light. < 1236006676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before you start talkin' physics, they're an abomination against nature, remember? < 1236006678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not those, I mean a scramjet aircraft < 1236006684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. those are boring. < 1236006692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, still they are quite fast < 1236006713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway scramjet cyborg pigeon aren't an abomination against nature. unholy scramjet-equipped cyborg pigeons are < 1236006719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a important difference there < 1236006739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scramjet cyborg pigeon are just dead. < 1236006763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pigeons* < 1236006766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:08 ehird: AnMaster: I'm more worried about the unholy scramjet-equipped cyborg pigeons, an abomination against nature. < 1236006767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said unholy < 1236006773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, AnMaster: scramjet cyborg pigeon? < 1236006775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not there < 1236006775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236006783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, but I missed the abomination part too < 1236006793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : before you start talkin' physics, they're an abomination against nature, remember? < 1236006802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that implied they were < 1236006802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i said unholy before < 1236006816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah so you just forgot a word then there < 1236006819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1236006875 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, this "introduction to AI" course programming-assignment/AI-tournament thing is proving to be rather popular this year too. 36 groups already registered. < 1236006902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: wait, finns doing AI? shit. shit. robot invasion soon. < 1236006909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stealing food and securing house -> < 1236006954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you sould like Randall... < 1236006971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we share common safety instincts < 1236007002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well in his case it is those velicoraptors or whatever the name was. < 1236007006 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We already had this tournament thing last year, and all we got was a couple of Java classes that play a board game. Your fears might be exaggerationary. < 1236007021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: but _oklopol_ might be in this one. < 1236007023 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Calicoraptors. They are more tasteful. < 1236007024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you see? < 1236007031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Calicoraptors. They are more tasteful. <-- ? < 1236007110 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was partially referring to the (according to WP) US term for this cat-colorization: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tortie-flame.jpg -- but you can interpret it as you like. < 1236007197 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what to make of the summary. It says "Tortoiseshell Cat. -- tortoiseshells have no white fur" but the cat in question does have some white. Unless it's just an overexposed photo, but I don't think so. < 1236007296 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zem.fi/~fis/abominations.txt -- my 'cut'-based approach for separating the speaker's nickname didn't really understand a CTCP ACTIONy comment, but on the other hand it looks much more hilarious that way. < 1236007324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DDD < 1236007337 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1236007380 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You are the undisputed abomination-leader, though. < 1236007395 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, what? < 1236007399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I abomin all the time. < 1236007405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://zem.fi/~fis/abominations.txt. < 1236007406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A happy accident. < 1236007463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, Hello < 1236007464 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well. < 1236007475 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi there < 1236007491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, read IWC? < 1236007503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x_x < 1236007518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I was asking first this time... That is much better < 1236007526 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AYEEEH < 1236007602 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see kyros's logic is impeccable as usual < 1236007653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed a good summary of what I was going to say < 1236007675 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also a good summary of the annotation, i see < 1236007695 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, given a certain leap in logic < 1236007704 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, i mean < 1236007718 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it stands to reason that's also a good summary of the annotation. < 1236007732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1236007734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1236007773 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you really need to work on your logic :D < 1236007882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it stands to reason that I don't < 1236007932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X = it stands to reason that X. < 1236007932 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then we agree < 1236007934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In X. < 1236007978 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it stands to reason that you have not understood today's IWC. < 1236007979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, X therefore Y, Y therefore X < 1236008015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it stands to reason that it stands to reason < 1236008037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'??җ??Ati???ը?k?֣?"H9?[Ä>??\GF?4?<$F?` < 1236008037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : y`W???׃?? < 1236008038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ??r%??3?hD?????T?????4?U?Ž5`?$?9aAEY?3c??jl¨jWq?? G??=?JL???49W?,户??͎x?k??m@5s????]??C ?ʪBɊ׌?b5\??I??kNfK? < 1236008041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : lI??? < 1236008043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ~??ސ˺??R=??J?!s?u??(]I$[?"h`f?? S????X* ?0≞?]%??CGL???ϼJ??݅?n?5?E'E?????' < 1236008046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Gc?'?(?J˿X???L???OLY?W?™T??V?R$D*?8g??89f??Z?#u?YAs ?JydZWǵ"?3??-?\?"??? < 1236008047 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm mezzacotta hall of fame is picking up again < 1236008049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't dump binary data on irc... < 1236008049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : o&?#!v???>?~?ڑ?n? ?|<=??G????:[}???????????4'Rnl???G??l?UrbfV??Xqɘ????,?wb?u?Iv???o???`#J ???#?N?.?DS»q?,u0???F?h"????(F?6?ރ????i?????;???????L ?3?>? < 1236008052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, stop it < 1236008053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :V???[Y?ރ0o?f < 1236008055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...stands to reason. < 1236008056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant to put that before but failed. < 1236008057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236008061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh honestly, get yourself a decent client :P < 1236008068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely it could filter out garbage? < 1236008068 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume that contains some unicode < 1236008073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, actually it did < 1236008074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that's longer than I intended. < 1236008079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was still spammy < 1236008082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my terminal font is smaller, see < 1236008131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, fun thing to annoy users with default irssi settings: /exec -o echo -e \\007 < 1236008139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adjust for your client syntax < 1236008145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236008164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know if +c filters that < 1236008168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd be a nice flooding script < 1236008171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+c filters colours and bold and such < 1236008179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just tack a bunch of \\007s on to your regular flood message < 1236008184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, did your client beep? < 1236008188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236008191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1236008193 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I also need a new computer. What should I get? < 1236008195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a gui one < 1236008201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's unlikely to react to terminal codes < 1236008201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mine filters it < 1236008207 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection reset by peer < 1236008210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+c filters all non-printable-unicode < 1236008211 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a black hole. that should have maximal information density. < 1236008211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1236008214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, apart from things like \1 < 1236008220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm certain mirc versions *did* beep on \007 iirc < 1236008231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also \\007 is just to escape it to echo... < 1236008236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and bash) < 1236008249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, mirc emulates a terminal pretty much < 1236008255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including the select-is-copy behaviour < 1236008273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, +c doesn't. I saw a box saying [0722] in what you pasted above. Which is not printable < 1236008286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1236008297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ab < 1236008302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See anything there? < 1236008305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess \7 isn't copyable./ < 1236008306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes: ab < 1236008310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :har har < 1236008330 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "want" is to "need" as "theory" is to "fact" ... once you start getting technical, they're all the same :P < 1236008333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, byte 7 isn't copyable < 1236008353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err that was ambiguous < 1236008354 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :necessity is the mother of death, as i might say more often. < 1236008355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anwyay < 1236008356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway* < 1236008452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "want" is to "need" as "theory" is to "fact" ... once you start getting technical, they're all the same :P < 1236008461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that kind of thinking is unscientific and ultimately destructive < 1236008477 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : also, their children are shaped like elongated eggs < 1236008481 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but are they kosher? < 1236008499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh lawd < 1236008512 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not put the israelis on that idea < 1236008580 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has no clue whether that is grammatical < 1236008745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think so < 1236008770 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : wow, #macosx is so pointless to be in. it's all random chatter about bullshit and cannabis, and not one bit of os x talk < 1236008782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me guess, you're going to < 1236008786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take "bullshit" literally < 1236008790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c/d < 1236008791 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it means cannabis in some foreign language < 1236008799 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WRONG! < 1236008806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah yes, the veritable "Macosx plant". < 1236008809 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er what's c/d? < 1236008813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :confirm/deny < 1236008835 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, i managed to comply without understanding < 1236008972 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:05:47 it's like trying to break your toaster < 1236008972 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :07:05:50 you can do it, but who does < 1236008979 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your children, obviously. < 1236009058 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: I'm more worried about the unholy scramjet-equipped cyborg pigeons, an abomination against nature. < 1236009073 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the question here is whether scramjets can evolve... < 1236009109 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might want to go via a dragon stage... < 1236009221 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : my brain doesn't mentally parse the invisible < 1236009224 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine neither < 1236009231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X_X < 1236009619 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that concludes my logreading. you should now be safe for a while, at least unless you say anything. < 1236010070 0 :ski__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything. < 1236010191 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may or may not now still be safe. anyhow, food. < 1236010231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Ⱒ GLAGOLITIC CAPITAL LETTER SPIDERY HA | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D < 1236010579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236010584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what are you trying to do? < 1236010590 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my reaction exactly < 1236010595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see [2C22] in that topic < 1236010596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, it's a GLAGOLITIC CAPITAL LETTER SPIDERY HA. < 1236010598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did I do wrong? < 1236010603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning you used some control code < 1236010607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://benfry.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/spidery-170x205.png < 1236010607 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236010609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1236010614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a GLAGOLITIC CAPITAL LETTER SPIDERY HA. < 1236010620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ehird has changed the topic to: [2C22] GLAGOLITIC CAPITAL LETTER SPIDERY HA | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D < 1236010622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the character that mocks you. < 1236010637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: control char / unicode learn2differenciate < 1236010654 0 :Asztal^_^!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not http://www.inference.phy.cam.ac.uk/cjb/glagolitic.png ? < 1236010658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*differentiate < 1236010660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, does any font have the complete unicode? < 1236010662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal^_^: no. < 1236010664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: code2000. < 1236010691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is that symbol some phonetic one btw? < 1236010695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like it could be < 1236010703 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that looks like the kind of letter you wouldn't like to meet in a dark alley < 1236010704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's glagolitic whatever that is < 1236010709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1236010714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Glagolitic_alphabet < 1236010729 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236010735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see < 1236010923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has conversation with human-that-fails-turing-test < 1236010943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://www.satisfice.com/blog/archives/199) < 1236011043 0 :ski__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm .. is there any voynich glyphs in unicode ? < 1236011053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski__: don't think so < 1236011055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be nice < 1236011059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask the conscript peeps? < 1236011108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to tell this person I own the website I'm on < 1236011114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonder how he'll react. < 1236011169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No response. I guess this ain't covered in the script. < 1236011192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I am sorry but it is owned by somebody else. :) How may I help you today?" < 1236011196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time to be enraged! < 1236011284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Just to verify, do you own Webgreeter.com?" < 1236011288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like hell I do! < 1236011417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I clicked away and lost the window :( < 1236012315 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1236012763 0 :Hiato!n=1@dsl-245-24-250.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1236012839 0 :Jophish!n=Jophish@80-47-69-80.lond-hex.dynamic.dial.as9105.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1236013981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski__, voynich? < 1236014008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :voynich manuscript < 1236014011 0 :ski__!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1236014014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voynich_manuscript < 1236014016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236014017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :snap < 1236014153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk for a few hours (out of town) < 1236014522 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236014594 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236014880 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236015073 0 :DH__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1236015118 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=arvid@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236015453 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236019602 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-47-126.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236020348 0 :Judofyr_!n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1236020516 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1236020760 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236020790 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1236020882 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1236021395 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuyqwe@bas2-toronto47-1242398954.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1236021624 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@92.254.128.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236021747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:17:39 #define LintSucksSoGodDamnMuch (void)printf < 1236021749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1236021751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am funny. < 1236021970 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236022198 0 :Impomatic!n=John@nat67.mia.three.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1236023041 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@e-173.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1236023350 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1236024568 0 :Jophish!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm having a bit of trouble implementing a Modulo operator in brainfuck < 1236024579 0 :Jophish!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would anybody be able to point me to am example? < 1236024659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's on the wiki < 1236024664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme find it < 1236024669 0 :Jophish!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh great < 1236024674 0 :Jophish!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks very much < 1236024678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jophish: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_algorithms#Divmod_algorithm < 1236024688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does division too but should be easy to hack to your needs < 1236024713 0 :Jophish!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1236024719 0 :Jophish!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a livesaver! < 1236024731 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-112-225.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1236024734 0 :Jophish!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have been doing some stupidly long algorithm for this < 1236024746 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, is this for your misson-critical application at work or something < 1236024757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jophish: :) < 1236024758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tombom: haha < 1236024769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he programs airplane flight systems in bf < 1236024811 0 :Jophish!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did you find out? < 1236024822 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's stable! < 1236024843 0 :Jophish!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the resons I chose it. plus it is very portable < 1236024850 0 :Jophish!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's not to like! < 1236024882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236025235 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1236025375 0 :Jophish!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, having this short algorithm makes it much harder to form my code into a funny shape < 1236025554 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1236025832 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236025849 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=arvid@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236025865 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236025983 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=arvid@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236026163 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1236026338 0 :Judofyr_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236026874 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1236027459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgur.com/1977 oh god yes < 1236027463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1236027597 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1236028211 0 :Impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm... < 1236028879 0 :Impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've just about finished implementing a minimal Forth in Redcode. 36 Forth words in 85 Redcode instructions. < 1236028915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat! < 1236028919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we see? :) < 1236028934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, how do you run redcode things like that? < 1236028940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can pmars run 'standalone' programs? < 1236028963 0 :Impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using exmars streams, which has extra opcodes for i/o < 1236028976 0 :Impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARES also has i/o, but implemented differently < 1236028994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah... < 1236029046 0 :Impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But with a few macros, it'd be possible to make them equivalent. It's possible to check which mars a program is being run in. < 1236029116 0 :Impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had to make a few compromises though :-( E.g. rename a few words + -> plus, * -> times, etc < 1236029121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.macosiphone.co.cc/ <- macintosh system 7 on an iphone :-| < 1236029124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Impomatic: aw, why? < 1236029439 0 :Impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: because I'm implementing using macros, which have a limited character set < 1236029459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1236031797 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Peace and Protection 4.22.2" < 1236032540 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What is the area of the largest rectangle that can be inscribed in the ellipse 4x^2 + 9y^2 = 36?" < 1236032586 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My method: Note that 4x^2 + 9y^2 = 36 is actually a circle. Do the obvious. Note that it's an ellipse instead. < 1236032586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 < 1236032698 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, the number after 7. < 1236032709 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume you took that from A013655. < 1236032723 0 :Impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"mov.i #1,1" < 1236032826 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236033075 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=arvid@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236034008 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"..." < 1236034184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: xD < 1236034801 0 :Ilari_!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1236035018 0 :comexk!n=comex@teklinks.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1236035031 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-47-126.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236035111 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236035113 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236035113 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236035113 0 :Jophish!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236035114 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236035115 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236035117 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236035117 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236035119 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236035119 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236035119 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236035119 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236035119 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236035119 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236035123 0 :ski__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236035152 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-47-126.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236035152 0 :comexk!n=comex@teklinks.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1236035152 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1236035152 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236035152 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@92.254.128.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236035152 0 :Jophish!n=Jophish@80-47-69-80.lond-hex.dynamic.dial.as9105.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1236035152 0 :lifthrasiir!n=lifthras@143.248.133.205 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236035152 0 :Asztal!n=moo@chunkybacon.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1236035152 0 :kerlo!n=ihope@normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1236035152 0 :lament!n=lament@S010600110999ad06.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236035152 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-128-205.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236035152 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1236035152 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1236035152 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@tavi.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1236035152 0 :ski__!n=md9slj@remote3.student.chalmers.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236035255 0 :SimonRC_!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1236035401 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@a91-153-121-248.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1236035409 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how you doing < 1236035452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The main contender, ReiserFS, dropped out of the race because its creator decided to pursue other interests" < 1236035453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XDD < 1236035455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: fine kthx u < 1236035553 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i failed my first exam < 1236035561 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i had to change my life philosophy < 1236035570 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which took a while, thus the offline time < 1236035589 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(nah i was just too lazy to open a new server window) < 1236035600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: wait did u rly failers :| < 1236035619 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1236035631 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. < 1236035639 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on the definition of failing < 1236035644 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by my definition yes < 1236035651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: so you got 99%? < 1236035664 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4. (3) fail, go bad, give way, die, give out, conk out, go, break, break down -- (stop operating or functioning; "The engine finally went"; "The car died on the road"; "The bus we travelled in broke down on the way to town"; "The coffee maker broke"; "The engine failed on the way to town"; "her eyesight went after the accident") < 1236035683 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Did your exam CONK OUT? < 1236035763 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i couldn't integrate sqrt(x^2 + 1) without using the formulas we were given, mainly because i got tired halfway through; anyway resulted in me almost tearing the paper in half and leaving, i then removed the whole answer to the exercise, and did another question instead, managed to remember a definition wrong and proved the wrong thing. < 1236035780 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/exercise/question < 1236035808 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Client Excited" < 1236035818 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so at least they should give me a zero from that, so at max i can get 75%, which as a grade would be like 3/5 < 1236035822 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1236035827 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty much a fail by any definition < 1236035846 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a fail by the "0 grade equals fail" definition, which in some sense is the official one. < 1236035861 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, true, i didn't fail the course < 1236035874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: 75% isn't bad. < 1236035880 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fail the battle, not the war. < 1236035881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by which i mean that's pretty damn good. < 1236035883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236035891 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm no it's my first non 5/5 < 1236035899 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's very bad. < 1236035945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, just < 1236035946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shut up < 1236035946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: < 1236035948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P < 1236035958 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway if i fail more of these exams i have piled up here, i will probably stop caring about my grades completely < 1236035959 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1236035979 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i try my best, and it just isn't good enough. < 1236035983 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's < 1236035985 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know < 1236035987 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depressing. < 1236036007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah 75% is practically earth shattering failure < 1236036009 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: heh, that's what people keep telling me, i don't understand why :D < 1236036011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should just go home man < 1236036016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and like < 1236036017 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We've got some people here who do the whole "non-perfection == not acceptable" thing re grading, but personally I've never really seen the point. < 1236036018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill yourself < 1236036031 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's a shattering failure considering how much i did for the course. < 1236036041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahaha oklopol you amuse me. < 1236036049 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1236036070 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See, you have a budding career as an ehird-amuser there. < 1236036081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES < 1236036087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll give you food! < 1236036090 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: no point, just an arbitrary goal. < 1236036112 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why can't this web-based study-result-browsamator compute grade point averages? Silly. It can in the PDF reports, but not in the web interface. < 1236036117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: soooo ... don't do it again? < 1236036117 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something i decided to do that isn't all that destructive < 1236036119 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1236036120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty simple < 1236036130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it was like 50% i'd understand < 1236036135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not going to happen again now is it :P < 1236036136 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe "averaging" is such a computationally intensive algorithm they can only do it offline. < 1236036161 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: 50%? you won't pass the course with a 50% < 1236036163 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In most of our exams 50 % of points is the line between 0 and 1. < 1236036172 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Approximately, anyway. < 1236036177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: thus, I said, if it was 50% i'd understand. < 1236036180 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay you will usually pass it with exactly that, as fizzie pointed out < 1236036187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's not, it's 75%. < 1236036201 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is this PDF report in Swedish? I don't get it. < 1236036221 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one gets swedish < 1236036262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one is swedish < 1236036266 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wished ais here < 1236036269 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*wishes < 1236036367 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personally I only get a a-failure-am-I feeling out of grades that are <3. (Less than three, not a-heart-symbol.) < 1236036405 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I've got some of those too, which is why I don't like looking at these reports. < 1236036416 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: anyway the point is pretty much just that after you get 5/5 from your first 6 or so exams, it's easy to go "hey, maybe i could get a 5/5 from EVERYTHING", and the obsession begins. < 1236036430 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I guess it could go like that. < 1236036461 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did a few courses during high school tho, didn't really study for them, so i have a few 3's already < 1236036472 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1236036479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: all(5/5)-1 isn't too bad either though is it huh. < 1236036480 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(average was 5/5 already when i started though) < 1236036485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay i understand it's not pretty < 1236036488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i kinda sympathize there < 1236036542 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection refused < 1236036566 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aesthetics are important. i love looking at numbers. < 1236036585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: okay, make a pattern out of your grades < 1236036586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :liek < 1236036590 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1236036595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 5 5 5 3 4 4 5 4 3 3 4 5 < 1236036597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno < 1236036604 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :333333333333333333333333333 < 1236036616 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: is that pi? < 1236036619 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1236036620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 5 5 5 5 4 4 4 4 3 3 3 2 2 1 < 1236036621 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1236036631 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: i remember seeing it somewhere < 1236036638 0 :Ilari_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Ilari < 1236036645 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did euler's constant go then? < 1236036652 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the same with 2's? < 1236036681 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236036685 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more complicated < 1236036689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also how is that pi < 1236036695 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2718171817181718171817181718171817181718171817 etc < 1236036713 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right right < 1236036720 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crap, that's wrong < 1236036733 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :27182818281828182818281828 < 1236036742 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1236036747 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236036766 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how dare you make my randomness funny! < 1236036982 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236037023 0 :Jophish!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1236038076 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236038692 0 :evenant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1236039119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:25:59 but autoconf noticed that youre system didn't need that, and commented out the line < 1236039120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:26:05 s/youre/you're/ < 1236039171 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Four words four words! < 1236039285 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236039292 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, OOTS fan? < 1236039309 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :object oriented transsexuality < 1236039311 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236039333 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but err is it some rpg kinda thing? < 1236039351 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i've heard my friends talk about something very close to that < 1236039379 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah order of the stick < 1236039384 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean the comic or the game? < 1236039396 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the first one. i've read very little of it. < 1236039481 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Comic < 1236039520 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've read a few random ones, it's not really for me. < 1236039655 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't really follow any comics, i just occasionally accidentally read whole comics because i just keep pressing next until they run out < 1236039966 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why isn't my body symmetric < 1236040314 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236040381 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@a91-153-121-248.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1236041060 0 :Judofyr_!n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1236041362 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236041442 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236044385 0 :Sgeo_!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236044385 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236048455 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuyqwe@bas2-toronto47-1242398954.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1236051992 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi, friendly programmers. How would I turn the Haskell expression (all (`elem` ['a'..'z'])) into Python? < 1236053998 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know python, if you explain what that does i can give you the equivalent < 1236054161 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1236054177 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo < 1236054218 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That checks that all characters in a string are not before 'a' and not after 'z'. < 1236054235 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/not/neither/; s/and not/nor/ < 1236054251 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it return, a boolean? < 1236054277 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In python that would be stuff not in ['a'..'z'], IIRC < 1236054285 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A boolean, yes. < 1236054293 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just look up the "in" operator in python < 1236054316 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take it ['a'..'z'] iz the same thing as 'abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyz'. < 1236054348 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-121-158.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236054357 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, though I forgot the exact syntax. < 1236054361 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's been a while < 1236054434 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[c for c in yourString if ord(c) in "acdefghijklmopqrstuvwyz"] < 1236054446 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1236054455 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :string.lowercase, I guess. < 1236054457 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1236054482 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if yourString == ''.join([c for c in yourString if ord(c) in "acdefghijklmopqrstuvwyz"]) < 1236054521 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not filtering out all non-lowercase-letter characters... < 1236054531 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point < 1236054561 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I refuse to use a language other than Python! < 1236054576 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then totally use not in < 1236054580 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really know anything other than Python and Haskell, and the Glasgow Haskell Compiler doesn't work where I want it to. < 1236054587 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you said not in. < 1236054618 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> 'foo' not in string.lowercase < 1236054619 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True < 1236054623 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :import re; isonlyletters = re.compile('[^a-zA-Z]'); if isonlyletters.match(yourString): < 1236054632 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That comes across as wrong. < 1236054648 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The operator not in is defined to have the inverse true value of in. < 1236054661 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, then, not in isn't helping. < 1236054661 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The operators in and not in test for collection membership. x in s evaluates to true if x is a member of the collection s, and false otherwise < 1236054677 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it not? < 1236054687 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using regexes is kind of ugly, but oh well. < 1236054723 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :import re; nice = re.compile('[a-z]{2-8}'); print nice.match(yourString) < 1236054737 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Will that be True if and only if yourString is 2-8 letters a-z? < 1236054773 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but not including A-Z < 1236054781 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what? I'm just going to do something else entirely. :-P < 1236054790 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to add re.I as second parameter or add A-Z in the [] too < 1236054793 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Attempt to do everything; if some exception is thrown, undo everything. < 1236054854 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sound like a plan? < 1236054877 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go ahaid < 1236054887 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I'm going to check for failure anyway. < 1236057149 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1236057574 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1236066908 0 :tombom!i=tombom@82.26.203.250 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236066974 0 :tombom_!i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1236066974 0 :tombom_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236067199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1236067200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1236067996 0 :Jophish!n=Jophish@80-47-69-80.lond-hex.dynamic.dial.as9105.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1236070044 0 :Jophish!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1236071353 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Client Excited" < 1236072514 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236073302 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236073305 0 :tombom_!i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1236074102 0 :tombom_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236074105 0 :tombom!i=tombom@82.26.203.250 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236074573 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A rather unusual job: http://www.f-secure.com/weblog/archives/00001618.html < 1236074593 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Note how altruistic they are: "We also do quite a bit of manual research. We *suffer* so your kids don't." < 1236075229 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236078928 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : have you seen the photo of the ultimate nerd? <<< no, i haven't < 1236079036 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if someone knows any good befunge interpreter <<< i hear this cfunge thing is pretty cool < 1236079544 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.121 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236081066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, thanks < 1236081163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hi < 1236081200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1236081202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :question: what is the exact issue with threaded intercal and external C code < 1236081212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might have an idea how to solve it < 1236081221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it depends very much on what the exact issue is < 1236081257 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the problem is that threaded intercal relies on program flow always being inside main < 1236081269 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it uses setjmp/longjmp to record where in main() it's got to < 1236081276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm... but surely it will sometimes call stuff like putchar or printf? < 1236081288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1236081294 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's inside a statement, and statements are atomic < 1236081298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :between statements it's always in main() < 1236081305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :within a statement it can call whatever it likes < 1236081325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, would it be possible to mark it to always interact with the first main thread or something like that? < 1236081331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and other threads being pure intercal < 1236081354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, considering you could have pure C threads that never return but run in the background iirc < 1236081371 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cooperative multithreading < 1236081376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1236081387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, a global interpreter lock then? < 1236081389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1236081391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1236081391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the real problem is that each thread has a separate NEXT stack < 1236081397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which corresponds to a different call stack in C < 1236081410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, setcontext/getcontext? < 1236081416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they effectively have to be different threads, or different processes, in the C code if you're mixing threading models < 1236081420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have an idea on how to solve it < 1236081424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1236081454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, my idea was to make it so only one intercal thread interacted with C. But maybe that won't work. < 1236081490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the way you describe the issue < 1236081496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would be INTERCAL thread = C process < 1236081506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236081526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you mean you have OS level threads in ick? < 1236081536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the solution < 1236081540 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not at the moment, but the only way to do C + threaded INTERCAL seems to be to use them < 1236081543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then how would you sync them < 1236081545 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and OS level processes, not threads < 1236081551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about setcontext/getcontext? < 1236081552 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and synched using mutexes and other such constructs < 1236081596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, separate processes would sure mess up IFFI. < 1236081608 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1236081614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I tend to document such restrictions < 1236081617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1236081620 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and work out insane solutions to them later < 1236081650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, cfunge even uses unlocked stdio when possible to reduce overhead... Definitely not thread safe < 1236081663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thread-safe != process-safe < 1236081671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor process safe < 1236081681 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :part of the reason to use processes not threads is that pretty much nothing's shared between INTERCAL threads < 1236081692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh btw cfunge now has an option to use fully buffered stdout, reducing time on mycology when not redirecting to /dev/null by about 20% < 1236081693 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only abstention status is shared < 1236081721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for /dev/null about 1-2% due to also using a larger buffer < 1236081755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm what about scheduling? isn't it documented to be on a round robin basis? or is that "may change in future"? < 1236081830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm I believe cfunge could be partly made thread safe though, without locks... < 1236081858 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the documentation's more fun than round-robin < 1236081862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) only funge space + a few other bits of global state are shared between funge threads... < 1236081866 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's documented as "will not get out of synch by more than one command" < 1236081871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) funge space could use CAS for the static area < 1236081875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which round-robin fulfils, but which could be fulfilled in other ways too < 1236081897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that is messy... < 1236081926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is that command == one statement? < 1236081949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or some sub-statement thing? < 1236081969 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one command is meant to == one statement < 1236081971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236081982 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although WHILE messes it up quite badly, I'm not sure if I've documented that < 1236082033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FILE, REFC, SOCK, SCKE and a few other would need locks btw... In core only funge space and creating/destroying threads... < 1236082039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but funge threads are round robin < 1236082042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so pointless < 1236082065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, not even going to try to make cfunge thread safe < 1236082075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or multi-process safe < 1236082104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well it is, doesn't use shared memory or such, but then stuff like funge space isn't shared. separate instances) < 1236082321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blergh this sucks. Was profiling a program. Turns out that most time is spent in one of the functions with shortest time / call. And there are enough 1594330251 calls to it. < 1236082335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ there is no simple way to make it faster... < 1236082344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case, change your algorithm so it's called less < 1236082355 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was my solution in a similar profiling situation < 1236082370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, called from lots of different places in the code. And large code base < 1236082385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(crossfire-server) < 1236082588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually there seems to be a tiny bit of thing that could help here... < 1236083919 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unhello. < 1236083922 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1236084194 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When leaving, always remember to unhello any helloes you might have said when entering a conversation, otherwise the channel might run out of resources. < 1236084242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what OS are you using? All modern OSs restore helloes to the common pool when a client quits on a connection to an IRC server running there... < 1236084271 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still think it's good manners to explicitly unhello. < 1236084294 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably that's why his became so popular instead, they're automatically deallocated when they go out of scope < 1236085223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1236085261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :urgh, profiling data so large that gprof takes over 2 minutes to load it... wth < 1236085305 0 :Mony!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-96-133.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236085356 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 minutes? < 1236085366 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when profiling Perl, it often takes 10 minutes to half an hour to process all the details < 1236085369 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plop < 1236085461 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey Mona < 1236085475 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :je suis pas Mona Lisa ok >_< < 1236085547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, really? < 1236085547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1236085559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely wonders if a Mony / Slearah conversation here would be in English or French < 1236085565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I would have expected it to be a lot faster < 1236085572 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But when I say Mona, I mean Mona from 2ch. < 1236085600 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236085618 0 :Asztal!n=moo@chunkybacon.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1236085761 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[14:06] * ais523 vaguely wonders if a Mony / Slearah conversation here would be in English or French <-- maybe in frenglish < 1236085827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236086661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1236086666 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what? < 1236086674 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, couldn't resist < 1236086678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :three things < 1236086679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We *suffer* so your kids don't." < 1236086682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :excellent job. < 1236086685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :04:29 kerlo: I don't really know anything other than Python and Haskell, and the Glasgow Haskell Compiler doesn't work where I want it to. < 1236086687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains a lot. < 1236086690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1236086695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm probably going to implement INTERCAL. < 1236086701 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay at the last one < 1236086709 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the INTERCAL market could do with a new compiler to drive innovatoin < 1236086711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*innovation < 1236086718 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Market. < 1236086725 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tons of people buy INTERCAL. < 1236086728 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what version do you plan to implement first? INTERCAL-72? something custom? something compatible with one of the existing compilers? < 1236086737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably INTERCAL-72 with my own tweaks < 1236086744 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I would totally buy is the original INTERCAL compiler on punchcards. < 1236086744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, I'm probably going to change the error messages a bit < 1236086749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the actual generated code should behave properly < 1236086754 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could frame it or something < 1236086761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i have plenty of good ideas: compiler options in the filesize, for instance. < 1236086763 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-098-154.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1236086796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: filesize? that's ingenious, I was planning to put it in the last-modified time < 1236086800 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but filesize is probably more portable < 1236086811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1236086815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :portability is key! < 1236086831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I also want to include an INTERCAL IDE < 1236086837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have a seriously perverse way of doing it < 1236086840 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to write an INTERCAL IDE, too < 1236086842 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have plans < 1236086846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard on me, hard for the user < 1236086857 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :involving an entirely new sort of highlighting that isn't syntax highlighting but is just as useful < 1236086867 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I should implement that seriously, it might be useful for other languages too < 1236086872 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I was going to add unlockable content < 1236086885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I was trying to think "what's the most ridiculous thing I can put in an IDE", and unlockable content was it < 1236086892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: let's put it this way: the non-OS X distribution will be a qemu running linux that boots right into GNUStep and starts the ide < 1236086902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it communicates with your filesystem & INTERCAL with a socket < 1236086910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you have to manually start intercal with the interfacing program) < 1236086932 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it act on OS X? < 1236086940 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can combine our ideas, they aren't incompatible so far < 1236086971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: on OS X, it acts like a windows application circa win95, ported to OS X (badly) < 1236086976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it was originally written for OS X < 1236086979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1236086987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what graphics toolset? < 1236087016 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest X11 plus Athena widgets < 1236087023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but designed in such a way it nevertheless only works on OS X < 1236087025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I was planning on using an unholy blend of Cocoa and Carbon — Carbon so that I could make native controls behave completely unlike normal < 1236087036 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, I like the "unlockable content in an IDE" thing. "You have to grind at the project settings dialog before you unlock version control integration." < 1236087040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1236087049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: my plans are mostly interface-wise, so yours will blend well with mine < 1236087077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I was planning to do the hyper-detailed status bar of files as a bunch of unfocused windows aligned below in a grid; if you move one, it snaps back, if you resize one, it snaps back, if you focus it, it focues the text < 1236087083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you move the file window, they tag along dozily < 1236087089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you move one over another, they swap places < 1236087097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like a toolbar rearrangement dialog) < 1236087149 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, my revolutionary highlighting idea is repetition highlighting < 1236087162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, clever < 1236087174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the agile junkies would love that (because they'd try and stop it happening) < 1236087187 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't worked out all the details, but things are highlighted according to how much of the surrounded code was repeated, and how many times the locality had been repeated < 1236087198 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would have saved me a couple of days in one project I did < 1236087212 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to track down a bug which was due to accidentally pasting in the first half of a table of contents twice < 1236087217 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*constants < 1236087261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you think people would actually use it with the silly vmware distribution? :D < 1236087270 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least one person would < 1236087276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you? < 1236087276 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but preferably qemu, I've got that installed already < 1236087280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, me < 1236087282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to try it out < 1236087284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly qemu < 1236087287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc vmware is faster < 1236087288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but lots of other people would have a look though < 1236087290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also, it can share the FS < 1236087291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without a socket < 1236087301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I suggest you just distribute it as a bootable .iso < 1236087318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that nonetheless only boots inside a virtualiser < 1236087318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think it's funny when a native distribution ends up being a wrapper against an emulator of some kind < 1236087322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, Google Earth on linux uses Wine < 1236087328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes yes wine isn't an emulator) < 1236087356 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, even linking against a compatibility library is amusing < 1236087366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I was going to call it IDE: INTERCAL Destruction Enabler < 1236087377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps Defenestration < 1236087381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL Defenestration Enabler < 1236087402 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a great name for it, but I can't remember what it was < 1236087544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had an excellent name for my compiler yesterday but I forgot it < 1236087566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it end "ick"? < 1236087573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait < 1236087578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to call the compiler eww(1) < 1236087591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps ugh(10 < 1236087593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*1) < 1236087594 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a break with tradition, that's an INTERCAL tradition in itself < 1236087599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly! < 1236087605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm going to have a custom license, just to infuriate debian < 1236087611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely you should break with tradition by not breaking with tradition, though? < 1236087616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll be contradictory, but also have clauses on how to resolve contradictions < 1236087620 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, make it one that's GPL-compatible at least in case I need to steal code < 1236087632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it should basically come down to the MIT license < 1236087636 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1236087642 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, even better: < 1236087645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was also going to have an EULA < 1236087659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which basically required the user to be insane to use the program, or at least to pretend to be insane while interacting with it < 1236087670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the EULA presenter would be written in intercal < 1236087673 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add a clause stating that all advertising to do with the distribution must mention and thank the Regents of the University of California, although mention that they don't endorse your code < 1236087677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so first it'd compile the compiler, with the eula bit off < 1236087682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which will only compile the eula < 1236087686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll compile the eula, run it < 1236087686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I'd just reject the EULA < 1236087689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use the code anyway < 1236087691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then the eula will flip the bit on the compiler < 1236087702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'd make sure it doesn't actually impose any obligations < 1236087706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you'd have to manually hex edit the file < 1236087709 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will presumably be open-source, I should be able to edit out the EULA < 1236087711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and find out which bit to change < 1236087756 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would that require hex-editing, anyway? < 1236087759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why would qemu be needed for this IDE btw? < 1236087763 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, most EULAs can be modified using strings < 1236087776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because it'd require gnustep, and also modify stuff in /etc and the like < 1236087796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very insane and not really in an intercal-y way < 1236087800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :intercaly* < 1236087812 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: anything sufficiently different from expectations is intercally < 1236087816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236087823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people are starting to form certain expectations about INTERCAL, we need to shock them out of it < 1236087823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :requiring qemu to run an IDE that looks like a windows 95 application ported to OS X ported to GNUStep sounds sufficiently intercal to me < 1236087825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a modern way, that is < 1236087834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's applying the principles of INTERCAL to a modern age. < 1236087836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something. < 1236087853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is too post-modern < 1236087865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooh. post-intercal? < 1236087875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, post-modern would be the compiler starting qemu, opening the IDE, which runs a preloader, and then opens vi on the host < 1236087945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how do you think an INTERCAL repl would work? < 1236087962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each line you write is appended to a program that accumulates lines < 1236087970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just boring < 1236087977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it runs the whole thing, repeating input that you gave on previous runs, and not printing output that it printed on previous runs < 1236087987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can do a COME FROM or whatever and modify what you wrote on previous lines of the REPL < 1236087994 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds boring, but it drives me mad thinking about the implications < 1236088052 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best bits of INTERCAL are the bits that look innocent < 1236088071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, my plan is to announce the new compiler's first working release to alt.lang.intercal on april 2nd, having never talked about it outside of here previously < 1236088077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"just when you thought the releases were over..." < 1236088089 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds good, I'll try to keep it secret in the meantime < 1236088111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if anyone else wrote an INTERCAL compiler while being unable to code INTERCAL? < 1236088116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, probably most of them < 1236088121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly the princeton one < 1236088130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you planning to write a compiler or an interp? < 1236088136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and at least the princeton people wrote syslib.i < 1236088139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: neo-interpilerism < 1236088148 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had a couple of bugs, but they at least tried < 1236088184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does the clc in clcintercal stand for? < 1236088185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the author? < 1236088191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, it's his initials < 1236088229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i'll call mine CLWNPA < 1236088276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I also intend to have an object system based on Conscientious objectors < 1236088384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does that work? Beats me. < 1236088465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1236088465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.catb.org/~esr/intercal/nelson.html < 1236088473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ted Nelson, the Xanadu kook, comments on COME FORM. < 1236089005 0 :M0ny!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-96-133.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236089088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll have an Evil Wrangler. < 1236089095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of ghc's Evil Mangler. < 1236089105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will be written in Illiterate Perl, which is Perl with the keywords changed to chavspeak. < 1236089116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Illiterate->Regular Perl translator will be written in a new variant of Literate Perl. < 1236089126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you need to translate the translator so you can translate the wrangler. < 1236089129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahem. Xzibit? < 1236089226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh look, qt 4.5 is out. < 1236089242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The latest version of Webkit is now integrated with the toolkit" < 1236089243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice. < 1236089303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tinyarro.ws/ <- This is stupid, IDN is flaky and a lot of software will explode on contact with the unicode. < 1236089346 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought the point of it was so you could make software explode on contact with unicode < 1236089354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's meant to be serious < 1236089360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, good freaking luck linking to that IRL < 1236089364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a major use for tiny urls < 1236089367 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236089387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they mentioned getting around the Twitter byte limit, but that doesn't work, it's a byte limit not a character limit... < 1236089404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, twitter is written in Ruby, and they expect unicode awareness? :P < 1236089424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not hard to get a one byte domain if you really want too, per previous discussions here < 1236089426 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is Ruby Unicode-aware? < 1236089441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ruby 1.9 can do unicode, before that: nope. < 1236089450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there was half-baked hacky support for it, but it broke most things. < 1236089467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it had excellent SIJS support, though < 1236089486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the main reason for no unicode is basically that all the users were japanese for the majority of its lifetime) < 1236089554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hey, a link to TAEB on proggit! < 1236089561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know < 1236089570 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what persuaded paxed to finally fix the exploit < 1236089579 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although he's keeping the nature of the fix secret for the time being < 1236089588 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not actually about TAEB itself, just the article was posted on the TAEB blog < 1236089606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do nethack devs get some sort of perverse enjoyment out of secrecy? < 1236089620 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not < 1236089628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we suspect it's a security-through-obscurity fix < 1236089643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl. < 1236089671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You can verify this by typing "nethack" into two separate terminals, then quickly hitting enter in each" < 1236089682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, y'know, spawn two `screen`s with nethack in simultaneously via the shell < 1236089685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236089696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of trying to perfect your 1337 alt-tab-enter skillz < 1236089741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"paxed, one of the admins of nethack.alt.org, patched nethack to use a truly random seed so that this specific exploit can no longer be used on that server." < 1236089744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please say hotbits < 1236089842 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, the huge hoohah was that it was patched to use a seed from /dev/urandom, but it was cracked anyway < 1236089852 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are people brute-forcing the seed from the random numbers observed in-game < 1236089852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1236089878 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently that's the exploit that paxed recently fixed, nobody's sure how yet < 1236089942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: funny thing: < 1236089947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :twitter's 140 byte limit comes from SMS < 1236089956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you think you can enter these links over SMS? :P < 1236089962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty silly overall < 1236089971 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea how to type unicode on a mobile phone < 1236089980 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from the characters that are on the iterated-through lits < 1236089982 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*lists < 1236089986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't < 1236089988 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't particularly care to try, either < 1236089990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, on a regular phone < 1236089999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on an iphone you could probably hack up something to do it < 1236090004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or any other programmable phone < 1236090111 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236090179 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Mony < 1236090457 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :re the topic: is GLAGOLITIC CAPITAL LETTER SPIDERY HA actually in Unicode? < 1236090459 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't in my font < 1236090461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1236090464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's what it looks like: < 1236090474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://benfry.com/wp/wp-content/uploads/2008/05/spidery-170x205.png < 1236090483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you can tell, it is a spidery creature that laughs at you. < 1236090595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, starting an intercal compiler is hard < 1236090602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of the standard test programs are implementation specific... < 1236090621 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :syslib.i is a standard test program and not implementation specific < 1236090641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, you need some way to drive it to run < 1236090644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't -do- anything that you can perceive :P < 1236090647 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by standard test programs, anyway? < 1236090655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things like hello world, cat, etc < 1236090662 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pit/tests in C-INTERCAL has quite a few test programs, many of which aren't implementation-specific < 1236090664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basic trivial programs that you make work with your implementation as a first step < 1236090680 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason that things like hello world and cat are specific is that you need extensions to INTERCAL-72 just to be able to write them < 1236090690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236090903 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you plan to ignorret as? < 1236090917 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd love an INTERCAL compiler that somehow manages to find a legit reason to return 42, or something < 1236090921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION scurries to find out what ignorret is <_< < 1236090949 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, the first Google hit is acutally relevant < 1236090956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but useless < 1236090963 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and none of the others are relevant < 1236090969 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, ignorret's a simple INTERCAL test program < 1236090972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION downloads ick < 1236090977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that manages to give a different result on each of the main implementatinos < 1236090980 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*implementations < 1236090980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236090990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is it? < 1236091000 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pit/tests/ignorret.i < 1236091010 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, the first google result /wasn't/ entirely useless < 1236091016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236091040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I stare at blank incomprehension at ignorret.{i,doc}. I'm gonna have a hard time, aren't I? < 1236091051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236091096 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that particular interaction was never defined in INTERCAL-72 < 1236091104 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so reading the docs won't help either < 1236091109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, I'd be happy to understand the individual parts. < 1236091114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably, this is why all the major interps ended up returning different answers < 1236091129 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the first line should be pretty self-explanatory < 1236091138 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as should the third, and the sixth < 1236091141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, if I knew what IGNORE and RETRIEVE were. < 1236091151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STASH is that weird stack thing, right? < 1236091152 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IGNORE makes a variable read-only < 1236091162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, writes to it silently fail < 1236091173 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STASH and RETRIEVE push and pop a variable on its own stack < 1236091182 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each variable has a stash stack, STASH pushes it and RETRIEVE pops it < 1236091203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point of contention is what happens to the read-only status when the stack of the variable it refers to is pushed or popped < 1236091204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, so what is .1 after DO STASH .1? < 1236091210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a variable name < 1236091216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is its value, I mean < 1236091239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1236091246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, wait < 1236091247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so < 1236091248 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STASH doesn't modify a variable's value < 1236091253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.1 = {1}, stack = {} < 1236091254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.1 = {1}, stack = {1} < 1236091255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1236091258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you write 2 to .1 < 1236091261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.1 = {2}, stack = {1} < 1236091263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then retrieve < 1236091264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236091265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.1 = {1}, stack = {} < 1236091273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, that's simple enough < 1236091276 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1236091279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except there's an ignore line < 1236091285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I'll get to that < 1236091286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : DO .1 <- #1 < 1236091287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : DO STASH .1 < 1236091288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : DO .1 <- #2 < 1236091290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.1 = {2}, {1} < 1236091294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume that's uncontroversial < 1236091296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1236091327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: okay, and retrieve boils down to "DO .N <- popped value" < 1236091332 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236091335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, the retrieve after the ignore, < 1236091343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes .1 = {2}, {} < 1236091351 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because .1 is read-only? < 1236091355 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the J-INTERCAL interpretation < 1236091355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1236091361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, it's still ignored, so writing #3 to .1 does nothing < 1236091367 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1236091375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the output is 2, 2, 2 < 1236091382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, just 2,2 < 1236091388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's only two READ OUT statements there < 1236091390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1236091399 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the CLC-INTERCAL interpretation is this: < 1236091405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1236091405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: < 1236091409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'/s the C-INTERCAL interpretation < 1236091412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from .doc < 1236091426 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes < 1236091429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1236091431 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :misremembered < 1236091437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The < 1236091437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ignorance status is stashed along with the variable itself < 1236091438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236091446 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLC-INTERCAL stashes metadata < 1236091449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does the standard say STASH stashes a variable or the variable's value? < 1236091459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it says value, mine's right, if it says something more encompassing, CLC-INTERCAL is right < 1236091481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The values are left intact, and copies thereof are saved for later retrieval by (what else?) the RETRIEVE statement (see section 4.4.6)." < 1236091491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, it's values < 1236091498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say CLC-INTERCAL is objectively wrong there, then < 1236091504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the metadata is absolutely not part of the value < 1236091516 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, INTERCAL evolves over time < 1236091524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say CLC-INTERCAL's interpretation is an extension < 1236091525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1236091527 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes STASH more useful < 1236091533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that's the thing < 1236091533 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :J-INTERCAL's behaviour is probably just wrong < 1236091541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :J-INTERCAL sucks, as far as I can tell < 1236091552 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :J-INTERCAL isn't as advanced as either of the others < 1236091608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I was imagining ignorret would be some highly-gnarly evil program < 1236091616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236091622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, the simple ones are more fun < 1236091628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's even portable to different bases < 1236091632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1236091754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, I'd probably go with CLC-INTERCAL in practic < 1236091754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1236091757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it'd be more useful < 1236091762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although... < 1236091766 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, CLC-INTERCAL has a lot more metadata to stash < 1236091768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does IGNORE make the variable or the variable's value immutable? < 1236091785 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-INTERCAL's solution is to stash all the metadata that CLC-INTERCAL invented, but not metadata invented elsewhere < 1236091794 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: there's no difference in standard INTERCAL-72 < 1236091805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is, the stash stack :P < 1236091806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I mean < 1236091808 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The statement DO IGNORE list causes all subsequent statements to have no effect upon variables and/or arrays named in list" < 1236091814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, well < 1236091822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :having an effect on the stash stack counts as an effect on variables < 1236091831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, the RETRRIEVEs do nothing < 1236091834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in strict intercal-72 < 1236091835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, it wouldn't be beyond the bounds of possibility that it would be impossible to STASH or RETRIEVE an ignored variable < 1236091842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236091847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the literal reading of IGNORE < 1236091867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: funnily the output would be 2, 2 < 1236091869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like C-INTERCAL < 1236091881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe ignorret should be updated to handle that possibility...? < 1236091931 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will be now you've brought that up < 1236091958 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll make the program slightly more complicated, but may as well test the interactions < 1236091981 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, people are always making new observations about the INTERCAL standard < 1236091996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that sorear, when he was writing the vim syntax highlight file for INTERCAL, concluded that whitespace was allowed inside keywords < 1236092014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm not sure on what basis, and all implementations I know of ban whitespace in that particular location < 1236092015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1236092043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've been thinking about unhelpful helpers < 1236092044 0 :Judofyr_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236092054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntactic sugar and the like that looks really useful, but works in such a horrid way that it's hell to use < 1236092073 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Release 0.27 (by Alex Smith) 22 Dec 2007 | 1. Joris Huizer pointed out that the manual nowhere says that a GIVE UP line can't be abstained from by line number. < 1236092075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, a string literal syntax that packs N 9-bit characters per array element, where N is the successive elements of the fibonacci sequence < 1236092083 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only took 35 years to catch that particular weirdness of the spec < 1236092086 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure that ther are others < 1236092087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1236092106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-INTERCAL corrects for that now, AFAIR the other impls didn't bother < 1236092106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: thoughts about that string literal syntax? hmm, maybe even make how it's packed depend on the string content... < 1236092128 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the obvious thing to do is have a start-string marker but no end-string marker < 1236092133 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and end the string at the next thing that looks like a statement < 1236092147 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surprisingly, CLC-INTERCAL would parse that just fine, C-INTERCAL might have more trouble < 1236092218 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would certainly be an interesting fix to the escaping problem < 1236092347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1236092394 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the start-string marker would presumably be a keyword < 1236092396 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than punctuation < 1236092401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why not overload "? < 1236092404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cackles < 1236092419 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would depend on the syntax < 1236092423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not alternating "/' either, " is always the one overloaded < 1236092918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you think CLWNPA is a good name? (Pronounced "interrcall", with a short a). < 1236092925 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236092926 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I do < 1236092939 0 :Asztal!n=moo@chunkybacon.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1236093436 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"relunching. Why am I eating twice as much as normal nowadays?" < 1236093832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Clang project is an effort to build a set of new 'LLVM native' front-end technologies for the LLVM optimizer and code generator. While Clang is not included in the LLVM 2.5 release, it is continuing to make major strides forward in all areas. Its C and Objective-C parsing and code generation support is now very solid. For example, it is capable of successfully building many real-world applications for X86-32 and X86-64, including the FreeBSD kernel < 1236093834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and gcc 4.2." < 1236093836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: maybe clang _is_ ready. < 1236093847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? < 1236093856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I looked at the status page for it recently < 1236093856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, to a degree < 1236093868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compiling gcc is an impressive achivement < 1236093874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it can handle most of C but not very much C++ yet < 1236093882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, without or without bootstrapping? < 1236093893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 1. does that matter for C programs? 2. not sure < 1236093909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no it doesn't matter for C programs. But their goal is C++ < 1236093920 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1236093926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. But you said that clang wasn't ready for C < 1236093939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when? < 1236093940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll try clang for the next thing I write in C < 1236093949 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-9-195.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236093950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also I said it was almost ready iirc < 1236093964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since last I tested it (1-2 months ago) it could almost handle cfunge < 1236093966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yesterday or so, you said clang wasn't ready when I mentioned it < 1236093969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just one thing it failed at < 1236093973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1236093982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1236093988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you mean what it failed at? < 1236093994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236093998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. stuff like: < 1236094010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :static struct mystruct foo = { .a = blah } < 1236094014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C99 < 1236094025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, the ".a = " bit is C99 < 1236094037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe it can handle that now < 1236094045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1236094058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbiab < 1236094060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(food) < 1236094061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236094064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's rather trivial < 1236094373 0 :impomatic!n=John@nat66.mia.three.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1236094389 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi :-) < 1236094411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1236094413 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1236094424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, iirc some developer said it wasn't _that_ trivial back then < 1236094452 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't you just translate it in the other initialization syntax and use the existing system < 1236094469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, you would need to fill in values in some places < 1236094516 0 :Hiato!n=1@dsl-245-24-250.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1236094522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is struct mystruct is: { char z[32]; int a; void *b; struct anotherstruct c; union blergh whatever; } < 1236094524 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a trivial problem < 1236094542 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :brown.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236094569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, also using this special syntax is the only way you can initialise anything but the first member of an union like that < 1236094581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure you could do myunion.foo = 2; or such in code < 1236094589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, so you can't always translate < 1236094595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially not for unions < 1236094623 0 :Asztal!n=moo@chunkybacon.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1236094631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, so I'd say it is "simple" rather than "trivial" < 1236094637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to add support < 1236094643 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1236094650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, IWC < 1236094651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236094653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1236094654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi! < 1236094656 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes, that may be true. < 1236094661 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fnord < 1236094670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, dronf < 1236094688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a float version of the math.h dron() I guess... < 1236094818 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :determine random obnoxious number < 1236094862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yeah < 1236094878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, didn't psygnisfive say he goes to stony brook university? < 1236094918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, think it was him yes < 1236094920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 100% sure < 1236094950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, just noticed slava akhmechet (of defmacro.org) does too < 1236095265 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.121 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236095294 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb me < 1236095294 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1236095299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1236095603 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : My method: Note that 4x^2 + 9y^2 = 36 is actually a circle. Do the obvious. Note that it's an ellipse instead. < 1236095607 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm... < 1236095612 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think so < 1236095628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4x^2 + 9y^2 = 36 is an ellipse < 1236095641 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a circle < 1236095669 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think kerlo's method is to make an incorrect assumpsion, see where it breaks down, and find out what the correct alternative is instead < 1236095695 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it _would_ still work by rescaling if you can show that the largest rectangle inscribed in an ellipse is necessary parallel to the axes < 1236095710 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which it probably is < 1236095758 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact if this is an ordinary calculus test they're probably assuming that's obvious < 1236095773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can you provide some rhyme/reason to this WTF: http://pastie.org/404648.txt?key=kjkf82sgtymwyt44eapphq < 1236095777 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or geometry) < 1236095817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I already did it, by testing on gcc 4.1.2 and not seeing that behaviour that ehird just described. Thus implying a bug. But why I wonder... < 1236095850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tracked down a bug that I thought was in a package to this... Crazy... I can't believe this is common to all OS X gcc users... < 1236095882 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An omg.c was compiled // in two slightly different ways // the result was eerily wild // But just don't ask me what it says < 1236095903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well most programs don't use cpp directly. They just call cc < 1236095917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only program using cpp directly I can think of atm is ick < 1236095958 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236095961 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"mov.i #1,1" < 1236095964 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: rhyme enough for you? < 1236095972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ocaml < 1236095975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using cpp preprocessor < 1236095991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ok. That makes it two that I can think of < 1236095996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw why does ocaml do that? < 1236096003 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.121 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236096014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what did you miss? < 1236096025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question? and/or my comment to it? < 1236096027 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* no respect for poetry even when they are _asking_ for it :( < 1236096043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yeah, horrible isn't it < 1236096060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what meter did that poetry use? < 1236096070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if any < 1236096070 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: both < 1236096070 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, what did oerjan say? < 1236096076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: can you provide some rhyme/reason to this WTF: http://pastie.org/404648.txt?key=kjkf82sgtymwyt44eapphq < 1236096078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I'll logread it, I haven't done that in a while < 1236096079 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea what it's called < 1236096079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the package used ocaml < 1236096080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523, I already did it, by testing on gcc 4.1.2 and not seeing that behaviour that ehird just described. Thus implying a bug. But why I wonder... < 1236096081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236096083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : An omg.c was compiled // in two slightly different ways // the result was eerily wild // But just don't ask me what it says < 1236096084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ocaml lets you specify a preprocessor < 1236096088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I saw that < 1236096092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for... preprocessing < 1236096096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this package used cpp for tha < 1236096096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1236096100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you didn't answer ehird's question < 1236096106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as we saw < 1236096112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I did, presumably the reply was never sent < 1236096120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : as far as we saw < 1236096123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : yes I did, presumably the reply was never sent < 1236096131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you Cpt. Obvious < 1236096133 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[16:02] as far as we saw < 1236096133 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the . is supposed to be silent, btw < 1236096134 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[16:02] yes I did, presumably the reply was never sent < 1236096147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I didn't see the answer? < 1236096147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, here it was over 6 second difference... < 1236096223 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "The main contender, ReiserFS, dropped out of the race because its creator decided to pursue other interests" < 1236096227 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1236096247 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never gets old, that < 1236096251 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then neither did his wife < 1236096280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, when is that quote from? < 1236096299 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:10:52 yesterday < 1236096302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://www.defmacro.org/ramblings/relational.html I believe I linked it < 1236096309 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(clog time) < 1236096314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236096319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what was ehird quoting? < 1236096322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.defmacro.org/ramblings/relational.html < 1236096339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236096367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah when != what. So first time you said it, it wasn't a relevant answer ;P < 1236096382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err s/what/where/ < 1236096412 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: where must you be so picky about interrogative pronouns? < 1236096445 0 :ais523_!n=ais523@147.188.254.121 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236096462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb < 1236096465 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236096468 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, it still didn't show up < 1236096485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: any ideas? < 1236096508 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: your results don't happen on my machine either, so it's probably a glitch specific to your version of gcc < 1236096512 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : well, i failed my first exam < 1236096513 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SPL #0, <-1 < 1236096516 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*GASP* < 1236096520 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, finally < 1236096523 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :group hug! < 1236096530 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to prevent impomatic's quit message overwriting the lgos < 1236096532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: but it's -apple-distributed-. surely they would have done some BASIC TESTS?! < 1236096532 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*logs < 1236096542 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that's kind-of obscure, rather than a basic test < 1236096545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: he got 75% < 1236096549 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, apple-distributed programs have been known to screw up < 1236096549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: ## is not obscure!! < 1236096556 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236096557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :## is insanely common... < 1236096559 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I mean, cpp vs. gcc -E < 1236096566 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they probably tested with gcc -E not cpp < 1236096567 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know what i got, i just reasoned i couldn't get *more than* 75%. < 1236096568 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523 < 1236096572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :retardzz < 1236096575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah < 1236096581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't compile tons of programs like this < 1236096584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apple famously messed up the packaging of Perl recently < 1236096587 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was on Slashdot < 1236096591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1236096608 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you are aware this may not be the definition of "fail" most human beings use, right? < 1236096610 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hopes that imp gate was written correctly < 1236096616 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know redcode all that wel... < 1236096620 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*well < 1236096634 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes, but that's very irrelevant < 1236096647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, IWC was weird today. Had to read the forum to understand it < 1236096654 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you fail when you need to lower your bar < 1236096669 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, my bar's in different places in different subjects < 1236096679 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh i remembered the similar one from when head death _entered_, so i compared them < 1236096682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I consider the bare pass mark of 50% excellent in some of my project management modules < 1236096687 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and indeed they seem to fit < 1236096692 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh. < 1236096698 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got 49% on my last piece of coursework on that, it's averaged with another that I've done but hasn't been marked yet < 1236096743 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i sometimes consider a 5/5 a fail if many ppl get it... but i guess i have to admit *that's* pretty stupid) < 1236096759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can full marks possibly be a fail? < 1236096776 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I was really annoyed when I got 99% on one technology exam I did at school < 1236096783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I could have got 101% if only I hadn't got two questions wrong < 1236096791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give it 110% < 1236096798 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and apart from in A-levels where it's trivial, scoring above 100 is quite an achivement < 1236096808 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well you know if many people get the best possible grade, i'm not well above average! < 1236096950 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recently had this exam where 10/20 didn't show up, 5 failed, 3 got a 1/5, one got a four and i got a five < 1236096950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: oh i remembered the similar one from when head death _entered_, so i compared them <-- didn't do that until after I checked forum < 1236096963 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i was like WTF HOW CAN THIS GUY GET JUST ONE LESS THAN ME < 1236096977 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then i called a psychiatrist and was put away < 1236096983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I still don't see where money got into it < 1236097000 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :head death < 1236097007 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i haven't checked the forum, i have changed to only checking it every few days, it's faster if i do it in more bulk < 1236097029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : because I could have got 101% if only I hadn't got two questions wrong <-- wait. How many % is all of it... < 1236097051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's for "bonus questions" < 1236097053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. < 1236097054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236097055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still < 1236097057 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 100, but I got a bonus mark on one of the questions < 1236097060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Blah blah blah. For bonus marks, tell us why green is purple." < 1236097074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is green purple? < 1236097079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there wasn't an explicit bonus question there, but the teacher was so impressed with my answer to one of the questions that I got a bonus mark anyway < 1236097079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1236097080 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh well head death asks what he owes doesn't he < 1236097084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why? < 1236097093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't question your elders. < 1236097103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err. you are younger than me < 1236097111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah hm true < 1236097129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DON'T QUESTION YOUR ELDERS. < 1236097138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and how did you manage to impress the teacher like that? < 1236097149 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember, it was ages ago < 1236097151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by writing a good answer? < 1236097153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JUST THEORIZIN' < 1236097158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well duh... < 1236097189 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: by being smarter than the teacher, i guess < 1236097200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, when I answer like that to a question that _you_ asked then you get irritated. Same when I _ask_ such as question. < 1236097205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that makes no sense < 1236097206 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also having a teacher who doesn't mind students who are smarter < 1236097213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Don't question your elders. < 1236097238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you must be based on the gramophone technology. < 1236097276 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: maybe that webchatter or whatever technology he mentioned yesterday < 1236097333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I think I missed that. What was it about? Don't have X running atm. So like ais523 I just ask instead of looking at clog < 1236097349 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i do suspect a number of the times ehird complains about you, he just does it for the hell of it < 1236097368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ooh. That would make sense in fact. < 1236097370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: DON'T SUSPECT YOUR ELDERS < 1236097379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you must be based on the gramophone technology. < 1236097392 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you are not my elder < 1236097399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHUT UP. < 1236097400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOUR ELDERS. < 1236097411 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE ARE THE WARRIORS < 1236097412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. gramophone < 1236097416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuck, repeating the same line over and over. < 1236097429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that's no Elder... < 1236097547 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it was some insane thing on reddit, a program that could be used for various support to talk to people on the web with scripting, but used in such a stupid way that it looked like there _was_ no human on the support end < 1236097579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: actually, the people started acting human after that article, apparently < 1236097584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(complaining about reddit influx) < 1236097603 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: reddit, the nuclear cluehammer :D < 1236097730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, err... < 1236097735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, link? < 1236097752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION detonates a well-sharpened pencil at oerjan < 1236097755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is willing to start browser to check this out < 1236097801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: RIP well-sharpened pencils :( < 1236097803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you need java < 1236097816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.webgreeter.com/ < 1236097839 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that turns out to have been an AI all along... < 1236097847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1236097849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :be very afraid < 1236097868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have java... Just not in browser < 1236097877 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear you mean reddit has trained skynet? < 1236097879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :java for linux x86_64 doesn't have a plugin part < 1236097897 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be nuclear cluehammer in the other direction, i guess < 1236097898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only the standalone java/javac/and/such < 1236098505 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : See, you have a budding career as an ehird-amuser there. < 1236098519 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what, i don't like competition < 1236098524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236098564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: :D at your :D < 1236098572 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you managed to make a meta-joke with one smiley, that's pretty impressive < 1236098577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, who was that line directed at? < 1236098589 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol < 1236098621 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan < 1236098628 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol < 1236098633 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan < 1236098637 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol < 1236098639 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan < 1236098643 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol < 1236098644 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan < 1236098646 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol < 1236098648 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan < 1236098649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236098656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, it's like a botloop < 1236098662 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with humans < 1236098668 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1236098674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I thought that too < 1236098678 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well some of them are suspected to be human < 1236098679 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ luckily oerjan got tired < 1236098689 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no, AnMaster just broke it < 1236098700 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236098702 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess. < 1236098702 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is just as well, before we got banned < 1236098717 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes probably for the best that you lost so abruptly < 1236098721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so who was it really? < 1236098724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now tell the truth < 1236098731 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats oklopol -----### < 1236098731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it was oerjan < 1236098737 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the truth is nothing but a lie wrapped in a pretty cake < 1236098740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : See, you have a budding career as an ehird-amuser there. < 1236098741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : wait what, i don't like competition < 1236098755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it was oerjan that reply would be very strange < 1236098765 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have told the truth all the time, i have never lied in my life < 1236098779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1236098784 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's funny because it's a lie! < 1236098786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that's a- < 1236098788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1236098798 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surreally, perhaps < 1236098982 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : no one gets swedish < 1236098992 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inte en själ! < 1236099005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have lied at least once < 1236099011 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I have also told the truth at least once < 1236099016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:50 ais523: I have lied at least once < 1236099020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be the lie, I presume < 1236099031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll leave you wondering < 1236099038 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have done at least one of those < 1236099099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, verkligen? < 1236099123 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: stop your incomprehensible babbling! < 1236099141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, then you should guard a door. ;P < 1236099157 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: given what the doors around here are like, I'd better not < 1236099173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I wasn't making a reference to that < 1236099179 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: he can be the one who stabs people who ask complicated questions. < 1236099197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, nah, I think he is too nice for that < 1236099212 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe, maybe < 1236099213 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trick to solving that particular XKCD problem is to have a question that solves the problem but doesn't sound complicated < 1236099223 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or he could have put on that appearance < 1236099227 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[17:49:55] inte en själ! < 1236099228 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What would you say if I asked you if this door lead to freedom?" is my attempt < 1236099235 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That looks so strange in an english channel :< < 1236099240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: tricky < 1236099242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not complicated < 1236099249 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: except the xkcd also mentioned none of the doors actually lead out < 1236099252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a tricky question? < 1236099254 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, and ok < 1236099264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, based on the drawing, the doors seem to lead /in/ < 1236099275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, with three doors, no way you can determine all the information with a yes-or-no question < 1236099343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://cairnarvon.rotahall.org/pics/lslw.jpg < 1236099352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, ja det gör det. Men han talar norska < 1236099367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ändå är det begripligt < 1236099386 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: um gör jag vel inte < 1236099408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, jo, inte svensk skulle stava det "vel" < 1236099423 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good enough < 1236099426 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i write swedish as botched by a norwegian < 1236099426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ingen* < 1236099430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, indeed < 1236099434 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bättre än jag kan norska < 1236099436 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ehm < 1236099438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, same < 1236099449 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Betre en jeg kan norsk < 1236099452 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: < 1236099453 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< < 1236099459 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Bedre enn" < 1236099521 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, maybe :D < 1236099526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, och det var bättre än mig < 1236099565 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::> < 1236099570 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good enough for me < 1236099594 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: um wait was this an attempt at norwegian? oerjan, jo, inte svensk skulle stava det "vel" < 1236099608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, no, it was just a typo < 1236099613 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1236099614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pkCuc34hvD4 < 1236099615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for "ingen" < 1236099650 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because most of the words are identical < 1236099661 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Norwegian is just typoed swedish :> < 1236099661 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially after fixing the typo < 1236099677 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, maybe not < 1236099713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, Depends. Nynorsk is not as close < 1236099745 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually it is not quite correct _choice_ of words < 1236099765 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'jo, ingen svenske ville stave det "vel"' < 1236099808 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ville" is more like the english "will"? < 1236099816 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which would be like swedish "skulle" < 1236099820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ais523 < 1236099822 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is also correct nynorsk, which can be even closer by choosing the -a infinitive option < 1236099833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you think I should do, replace cpp with a shell script aclling gcc -E? < 1236099845 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: english "would" < 1236099854 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, yeah < 1236099876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, then skulle in Swedish < 1236099878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case < 1236100203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder why i liek the otbs < 1236100206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*like < 1236100209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not exactly logical... < 1236100232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the otbs? < 1236100240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one true brace style (k&r) < 1236100256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236100270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :having { on a separate line just for functions is rather silly < 1236100271 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you'd written 1tbs, I might have been able to expand it, probably not though < 1236100296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the moment, for Perl I'm using a 1tbs with { on the opening line for absolutely everything < 1236100301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if I like it or not < 1236100332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1tbs? < 1236100347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh 1 not l < 1236100349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1236100365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(they are different in this font, just not by much) < 1236100826 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: do you think CLWNPA is a good name? (Pronounced "interrcall", with a short a). < 1236100852 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should make the welsh scratch their heads, at least < 1236101122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, heh < 1236101703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C function pointer syntax is crazy IMO < 1236101709 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like it < 1236101719 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it follows the general rules for C type syntax very well < 1236101770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I tend to typedef to not need to think about it < 1236101799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in typedef it is really strange < 1236101836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typedef void (*fingerprintOpcode)(instructionPointer * ip); < 1236101840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really that is strange < 1236101844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typedef is usually: < 1236101858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typedef long int fancyname < 1236101860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1236101875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, for function pointers that is no longer true < 1236101887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean tyedef < 1236101892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typedef* < 1236102301 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-13-114.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236102592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you consider it acceptible to press F3 if you don't have a suicide spoon handy, or is that cheating? < 1236102691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, you can make any vector image from lines & curves right? < 1236102700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about fill? < 1236102733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes < 1236102743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can make any vector image from lines, curves & fill right? < 1236102762 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1236102769 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it depends on what primitives the image uses < 1236102774 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"curves" is pretty general... < 1236102794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1236102806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I was planning having an image be from (0.0,0.0) to (1.0,1.0) < 1236102821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a curve would be (x1,y1,x2,y1,bend) < 1236102825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where bend is from 0.0 to 1.0 < 1236102826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1236102834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236102837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a line is a curve with bend 0 < 1236102889 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A cruve is in this case a bezier curve? < 1236102940 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[18:52:26] you can make any vector image from lines, curves & fill right? < 1236102943 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that'd work < 1236102949 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judging from how SVGs are built < 1236102976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, bezier < 1236103166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, with those, a circle is < 1236103167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ((0.5, 0), (0.5, 1), -0.5); < 1236103168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ((0.5, 0), (0.5, 1), 0.5) < 1236103169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe < 1236103213 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's possible to do a sine wave with only bezier curves < 1236103221 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not exactly right, anyway, although you can approximate it as closely as you like < 1236103229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236103230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? < 1236103247 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's a different shape of curve < 1236103298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236103300 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1236103304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should use a different type of curve < 1236103313 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1236103338 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've tried to make a circle lots of times with Bezier based curves < 1236103343 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I've had a hard time < 1236103367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, with mine it would be < 1236103367 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a graph of Ei, for instance, definitely can't be drawn with bezier curves < 1236103368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [((0.5, 0), (0.5, 1), 0.5); < 1236103368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ((0.5, 0), (0.5, 1), -0.5)] < 1236103373 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By my experience, IIRC, the "anchor" points which describes the bend are placed at odd laces < 1236103379 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :places* < 1236103395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you draw the straight line in the middle from top to bottom, then curve it so that the middlepoint is away from the starting point < 1236103400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Exponential_integral < 1236103404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, the curve should be two curves < 1236103410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it can curve horizontally or vertically < 1236103417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, with that you can express a circle as above < 1236103437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1236103442 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.121 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236103452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did I do that? < 1236103466 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :misclick, it seems < 1236103813 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236104071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.scribd.com/doc/12927007/The-Manga-Guide-to-Databases-excerpt < 1236104078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear... it actually exists... < 1236104104 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1236104104 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you actually go looking for one of those? < 1236104118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it was on reddit and now an excerpt of it is on reddit < 1236104120 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's not hentai i'm not interested < 1236104170 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it's database hentai < 1236104199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tentacles of denormalization < 1236104459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.sfcave.com/ addictive < 1236104564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [18:52:26] you can make any vector image from lines, curves & fill right? <-- what about gradients? < 1236104582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, I'm talking about the theoretical definition of vector image. < 1236104669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://www.scribd.com/doc/12927007/The-Manga-Guide-to-Databases-excerpt <-- needs flash, summary? < 1236104684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the manga guide to databases. < 1236104694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes, but what does that mean in practise? < 1236104708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a guide to databases that is a manage < 1236104710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*manga < 1236104719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah there is a description there too... < 1236104734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank for your (lack) of helpfulness < 1236104738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks* < 1236104757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck is there not to get? < 1236104764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the manga guide to databases < 1236104769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's the ambiguity? < 1236104805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could have been a space theme, or fantasy theme, or sex theme < 1236104817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something else < 1236104818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... err, what < 1236104841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :manga can be about different subjects right? < 1236104845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like everything can < 1236104860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have comics with scifi. < 1236104868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can have comics with fantasy < 1236104869 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: so how much have you gotten? < 1236104871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can have comics with other stuff < 1236104874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: wut < 1236104879 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :snake < 1236104886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh high score on that thing? < 1236104889 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236104889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10150 i am not very good < 1236104890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you? < 1236104900 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17000 or something, just making sure < 1236104919 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although i like the graphics, will probably play a bit more < 1236104935 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though i don't really find that a very stimulating concept < 1236104959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nibbles is my favourite version of Snake < 1236104969 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I liked it so much I even wrote patches against it and submitted them to Gnome < 1236105023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my phone as a 3D TPS (Third Person Snake) < 1236105029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's horrible < 1236105043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :third person snake, you mean, snake < 1236105045 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3D snake? < 1236105046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1236105049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236105050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1236105057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've played 3d snake, called Swear < 1236105058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t'was fun < 1236105067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the same one I think then < 1236105067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a klein bottle < 1236105067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no less < 1236105078 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've played some odd 3D snake on a Nokia cellphone < 1236105079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one is rather boring. < 1236105082 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't like it < 1236105085 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1236105087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, Nokia here too < 1236105089 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On MY cellphone, IIRC < 1236105094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one is called "Snake III" < 1236105096 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't use his cellphone a lot < 1236105099 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, the same one < 1236105102 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1D snake could be more interesting < 1236105118 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Althrough on my dads cellphone, theres some wireframe snake, looks more interesting < 1236105120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how would it work < 1236105121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather boring, I think, ais523 < 1236105124 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's also a Nokia < 1236105129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, older model? < 1236105136 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, I think < 1236105144 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it looks about as good, technically wise < 1236105147 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm thinking the snake would move n squares at a time, rather than just 1 < 1236105153 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you would vary n < 1236105157 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eg. equally advanced graphics < 1236105162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah, clever < 1236105168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's obstacles < 1236105173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you have to increase your "hop speed"? < 1236105173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, mine is a "Nokia 3something Classic" < 1236105174 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, that's interesting < 1236105175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get past them < 1236105184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that would be best as a side-scroller type thing < 1236105186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for visualization < 1236105192 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PUDDING!!!!! < 1236105194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a snake hopping < 1236105195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: probably < 1236105203 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Side scroller snake < 1236105205 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh < 1236105205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:33 ais523: PUDDING!!!!! < 1236105208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I LOVE PUDDING TOO. < 1236105213 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's a TURKEY BOMB command < 1236105222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1236105224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what's the relevance < 1236105229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, I forgot the exact model < 1236105232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, :D < 1236105233 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it have to be relevant? < 1236105235 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mines.. 7500 < 1236105237 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prism < 1236105240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was randomly reading the TURKEY BOMB specs < 1236105241 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Easy number to remember < 1236105246 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and felt an urge to paste one of the commands < 1236105281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, mine is like 3120 or something like that < 1236105284 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suddenly notes that no commands use AMICEDs, apart from the ones that take any time < 1236105290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it doesn't have the model number on it even < 1236105303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, there is also a rally game on the phone. 3D < 1236105309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very bad graphics < 1236105314 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, that one < 1236105320 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've played it < 1236105320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, what one? < 1236105322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1236105323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: about your cpp problem, what happens if you give the -### switch to the two commands/ < 1236105328 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You auto-move forward, can only steer < 1236105329 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right? < 1236105338 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some beach race thing < 1236105341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, you can turn off that auto move forward though < 1236105344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not beech < 1236105350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mountain and such < 1236105351 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, guess it's a different one then < 1236105364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, not using auto forward is very hard < 1236105381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why in a phone < 1236105393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: cpp gives -traditional-cpp but surely traditional cpp had ## < 1236105399 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Althrough I also have this Tower Bloxx game, it's quite alright < 1236105399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use it for calls and SMS < 1236105405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, it didn't < 1236105405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, don't have that one < 1236105408 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use mine < 1236105410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: O_O < 1236105411 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236105423 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :## was invented for C89 to avoid the horrible hacks that people were using instead < 1236105425 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as was # < 1236105431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, have some backgammon game too. No idea how to play it < 1236105444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :backgammon that is < 1236105450 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :traditional cpp #define A(x) "testx" translates to modern CPP #define A(x) "test" #x < 1236105452 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, I think I've played a Nokia backgammon game, yeah < 1236105472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wow crazy < 1236105474 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at http://esolangs.org/wiki/Talk:Esme for old time's sake < 1236105484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also cpp doesn't run into that bug ehird hit here < 1236105489 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and suddenly realises that the discussion there is between Dagoth and zzo38 < 1236105491 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nor here < 1236105498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Esme: It works by tapping out "ESME" into Morse code, then writing "Esme" in to the papers." < 1236105509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also -### ? < 1236105518 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a lovely name for a gcc switch < 1236105522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically like: < 1236105523 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should try it some time < 1236105524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://fortwayneright.files.wordpress.com/2008/07/dewey_wins.jpg < 1236105529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except instead of DEWEY DEFEATS TRUMAN < 1236105530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says < 1236105532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ESME ESME ESME < 1236105534 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why they chose that one, presumably they just wanted it to be memorable < 1236105534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I can't find it in man page < 1236105542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: gcc's man page isn't well-documented < 1236105549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the gcc people prefer info < 1236105557 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a debugging switch that charts what the subprocesses do < 1236105581 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Quit" < 1236105668 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip70-171-213-254.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236106195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha: http://www.planetsourcecode.com/vb/scripts/ShowCode.asp?txtCodeId=11751&lngWId=3 < 1236106201 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err qut < 1236106203 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qut < 1236106204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, saw that < 1236106204 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*wut < 1236106205 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Note: Due to the size or complexity of this submission, the author has submitted it as a .zip file to shorten your download time. Afterdownloading it, you will need a program like Winzip to decompress it." < 1236106212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's by the actual author of deadfish < 1236106217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bit of a newb. < 1236106222 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what am i misunderstanding, i got a 27000 and i'm not on the list < 1236106226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've suddenly had an impulse to want to write a deadfish polyglot < 1236106229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: did you enter a nam < 1236106229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1236106241 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, a program that's a deadfish interpreter in lots of different languages < 1236106244 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait i am < 1236106247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1236106247 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nm < 1236106815 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now presumably ehird will try < 1236106823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1236106831 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to write a polyglot deadfish interp < 1236106844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not, I suck at polyglots < 1236106947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, specs for this deadfish? < 1236106954 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Deadfish < 1236106958 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a very trivial non-TC language < 1236107035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah indeed < 1236107056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly famous because it has a huge number of implementations < 1236107245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so does bf < 1236107253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and befunge-93 < 1236107263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236107267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow at that C one on the wiki < 1236107270 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but those are famous on other grounds < 1236107273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* <-- Declare a function --> */ < 1236107274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w < 1236107274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1236107275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :h < 1236107290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :embedded SGML comments.. < 1236107295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no < 1236107296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even valid sgml. < 1236107298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a ! and it would be < 1236107301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the author is a silly newb. < 1236107303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah see how it fails < 1236107303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's mostly for the novelty. < 1236107364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what? nah. That would be /* <<<><<<<---!()\/& Declare a function &\/()!--->>>><>>> */ < 1236107368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is novelty! < 1236107452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also an example of a "don't do this" comment < 1236107464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks for the i++; /* Increment i */ < 1236107521 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1236107553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /* Make sure x is not greater then 256 */ < 1236107553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if(x == 256) x = 0; < 1236107560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236107566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, we are aware of the 'bug' < 1236107579 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other implementations do the same thing for compatibility < 1236107586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not only that. He should have used "unsigned char" and 255 < 1236107598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in that is the same < 1236107619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, should I write a short C version that does the same but is sane and put it up there after his C version? < 1236107619 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's wrong with that? < 1236107628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, read that comment < 1236107632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /* Make sure x is not greater then 256 */ < 1236107632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if(x == 256) x = 0; < 1236107632 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh comment. < 1236107641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the behaviour on 256 is considered an important part of Deadfish < 1236107644 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i don't read comments < 1236107648 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words, the implementation is correct but the comment is wrong < 1236107654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes indeed < 1236107686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, should I put up something following the same implementation in C but that is sane < 1236107688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes or no? < 1236107697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'll do an erlang version < 1236107699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well < 1236107714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably better to just add new languages < 1236107791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1236107861 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236107955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236108183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agh, I ran into GreyKnight -again- < 1236108267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what? < 1236108271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :context? < 1236108287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guy who was in here circa 2006, ran into him via the logs first, then saw he played Agora in 2006 when browsing archives, and now I see him on wikipedia < 1236108383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1236108395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does Deadfish behave on EOF? < 1236108417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1236108447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple question < 1236108457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is >> for the user < 1236108463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if user hits ctrl-d? < 1236108544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it exits... < 1236108654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ? < 1236108660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it exits... < 1236108671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it doesn't quit or react? < 1236108680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know what exit means. < 1236108684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236108686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't < 1236108689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can tell < 1236108698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It only exits, not quits!!" < 1236108716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, looking at the bash implementation for example < 1236108720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bash one just echos < 1236108732 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokoko < 1236108948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another bug < 1236108957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could go to 254, then square it < 1236109003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the intention. < 1236109052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that bash implementation doesn't allow it heh < 1236109103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"# ARM Texas Instruments OMAP3 chip" —http://www.alwaysinnovating.com/touchbook/ < 1236109342 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236109495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, doesn't mean anything to me < 1236110105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :done. < 1236110108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :deadfish.erl < 1236110122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MIT or BSD? < 1236110135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, which would you suggest? < 1236110145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I will go for MIT license < 1236110146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MIT < 1236110149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if BSD, BSD2 < 1236110158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "don't use our name" thing is redundant and outmoded < 1236110159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not BSD-4? aww < 1236110162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: BSD-5 < 1236110167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1236110170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that exists? < 1236110171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add a clause requiring modifiers to give all their babies to you, so you can eat them < 1236110175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to further your evil plot to destroy the world < 1236110178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1236110180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> Sure it's open source, but your code is safe! < 1236110191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about one that says: Plus everything in GPL2? < 1236110200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1236110206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236110207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1236110212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or GPL3 < 1236110219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: add a clause saying that only people called george can modify the softwar < 1236110220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1236110228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why george? < 1236110233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not < 1236110238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also don't question your elders < 1236110247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you aren't my elder < 1236110255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shut up. your elders. < 1236110267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway what license is allowed on the wiki? < 1236110286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Public domain. Nothing else. < 1236110290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1236110297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll guess I'll have to go for that then < 1236110299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically, the creative commons public domain dedication < 1236110309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: just don't put a header in < 1236110310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the others < 1236110313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236110325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g., authorship tag would be silly if others modified it < 1236110394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : %% @author and %% @copyright are done in all erlang code really < 1236110400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%% @doc too < 1236110453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares < 1236110455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just omit them < 1236110578 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1236110597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1236110622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1236110624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Login error: < 1236110624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error sending mail: There is no e-mail address recorded for user "AnMaster". < 1236110629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember password < 1236110633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1236110636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1236110642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and there is no email < 1236110643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1236110649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: just edit anonymously, will it kill you? < 1236110670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was that disabled, I forget < 1236110688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236110690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1236110694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway who is an admin < 1236110700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just edit anonymously < 1236110708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ais523, ihope (iirc), oerjan, everyone < 1236110715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, anonymous editing works < 1236110717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just checked < 1236110729 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=arvid@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236110751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, http://paste.lisp.org/display/76426 < 1236110771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, did you say everyone? < 1236110772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who? < 1236110775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, apparently your brain can't parse me, < 1236110779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Deadfish&action=edit < 1236110780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Deadfish&action=edit < 1236110783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/w/index.php?title=Deadfish&action=edit < 1236110783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I refuse < 1236110784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to edit < 1236110785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :third time lucky < 1236110786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anon < 1236110803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my ip! < 1236110803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ok, then your interp will never be used and nobody will see it apart from a few < 1236110806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have fun with that < 1236110818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no, I'll just poke ais when I see him next time < 1236110831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure he'll enjoy being bothered for something so trivial < 1236110848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm sure he won't mind < 1236110868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and do you intend to put it on the wiki with that license? < 1236110883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nop < 1236110892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I plan to make it public domain if I put it on wiki < 1236110893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why did you paste it with thatlicense < 1236110901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, yours doesn't meet the spec. < 1236110902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because that isn't the wiki < 1236110905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do multiple commands per line. < 1236110913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I checked several other ones < 1236110920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :several didn't support it < 1236110949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but trivial to fix < 1236111016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You can have several commands per line, at least in the C implementation." < 1236111020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you read it... < 1236111108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in < 1236111108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236111116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :check the implementations there though < 1236111142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wait, will it print two newlines after each line then? < 1236111176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does it strip a trailing \n? < 1236111310 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1236111516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hi < 1236111520 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rehi < 1236111522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I lost my login to the wiki < 1236111526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have no email set < 1236111532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a wiki admin can you help? < 1236111535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, nothing I can do about that despite being an admin < 1236111541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, who can then < 1236111543 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best to create another account < 1236111549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :graue probably could modify the database directly < 1236111551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, guess I'll just stop editing < 1236111554 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with no email set, there's no "official" way to do it < 1236111563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just create another account and mention you lost your password, nobody will mind < 1236111566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not put up my erlang deadfish < 1236111570 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's common even on Wikipedia, and some people have done it before < 1236111572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I will < 1236111575 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you can just post as an anon if you prefer < 1236111577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will mind < 1236111585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, my ip! < 1236111586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236111595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah I guess I'll just skip it < 1236111603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw < 1236111612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does deadfish strip trailing newline? < 1236111617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on input < 1236111622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's interactive < 1236111627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes < 1236111633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1236111636 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think it strips newlines if and only if there's something else on the line < 1236111647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, right. That is painful < 1236111928 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-098-154.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1236111958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does it matter of the interpreter is bignum? < 1236111972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I do handle -1 and 256 as original code < 1236111979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with s you can get outside that < 1236111990 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: getting outside it is part of the fun < 1236112005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, the discussions here we had about making Deadfish TC relied on bignums < 1236112072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, http://paste.lisp.org/display/76430 < 1236112090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you need *two* bignums to do that < 1236112095 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you don't < 1236112098 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe not < 1236112098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1236112102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about control flow < 1236112103 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :having a square instruction makes things more complicated < 1236112108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :control flow I'm not sure about < 1236112139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you need some sort of control flow. All you have now is a fixed program. Even with bignums you couldn't implement bf in it < 1236112145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is bf without IO < 1236112178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway what do you think of my erlang implementation? < 1236112187 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple enough < 1236112195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with that licence, it wouldn't be acceptable on Esolang anyway < 1236112217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I would relicense it as public domain if I got my account back < 1236112224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple enough < 1236112250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, graue would probably not believe me if I asked him, so better you ask him (since he would trust you more) < 1236112254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and you know who I am) < 1236112283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, :) < 1236112626 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: what I mean is to pretend it's a circle. < 1236112634 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's not here, but I'm sure that message will find him eventually. < 1236112765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo, it isn't < 1236112790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the circle is a lie! < 1236112833 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intelligence is about ignoring what isn't important. < 1236112851 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For much of the problem, it's not important that it's actually an ellipse. < 1236112868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1236113008 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what is important? < 1236113018 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Area and betweenness. < 1236113036 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Area-preserving affine transformations preserve both of these. < 1236113041 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's betweenness? < 1236113055 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whether or not one point is between two others. < 1236113103 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err so that every line cuts it zero or 2 times? < 1236113109 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except for tangents < 1236113113 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 0-2 < 1236113116 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what do you mean < 1236113132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: graue will, most likely, tell you that if you give a shit about your ip being exposed jsut create another account < 1236113142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, that's what any sane person would. < 1236113149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://paste.lisp.org/display/76432 < 1236113157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixed some comment typos < 1236113161 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm saying that an area-preserving affine transformation is useful in this case, I guess. < 1236113168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now it works according to reference implementation < 1236113175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"reset my password", sure. "reset my password because i refuse to edit anonymously and otherwise i will STOP EDITING FOREVER", oh go away. < 1236113203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I will only ask the first obviously < 1236113215 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to maximize the area of a rectangle inscribed in an ellipse, then whatever transformation you apply needs to preserve area and rectangleness. < 1236113224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so why are you asking the other here < 1236113239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because graue isn't here? So it doesn't matter. < 1236113243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stop bitching < 1236113246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the kind of thing you'd call me childish for, actually (refusing to edit just because of username not being AnMaster or ip being exposed) < 1236113358 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1236113361 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oko < 1236113376 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ol fokol ofol ooo..... < 1236113385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :z < 1236113389 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oko polofol o kolooo < 1236113402 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kol kol kolk olk oo :) < 1236113412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need a translator < 1236113423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: translate oko to english and post it to agora < 1236113474 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@a-116.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1236113500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone should make a TC language based on "oko" < 1236113513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not just a bf in a thin wrapper < 1236113540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only oklopol could, and he won't because that's sacrelige < 1236113542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bf lookalike* < 1236113558 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokoko < 1236113563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, then his followers should do it < 1236113568 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was thinking about one at some point < 1236113574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, really? < 1236113577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, it would be inferior < 1236113585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing can truly capture oko apart from itself. < 1236113595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1236113598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go ahead... < 1236113611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION backs away slowly < 1236113615 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, but it was more weird than it was interesting; it was more like an elaborate prng than a programming language < 1236113636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you see, an alien called Xenu... < 1236113650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, heh < 1236113656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, argh! < 1236113683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...made a Time Cube, which encompasses all 4 corners of spacetime, and... < 1236113699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236113701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my < 1236113750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...dropped it as a bomb on to Earth, and the Mayans were left with traces of the magic, predicting that in 2012... < 1236113769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...we would run out of ipv4? < 1236113788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... kind of. < 1236113797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what had you planned to say? < 1236113814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to tie it to Christianity. < 1236113816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or buddhism < 1236113819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1236113820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or mormonism < 1236113821 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...therefore, God exists and the theory of evolution is false. < 1236113827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: Exactly. < 1236113831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1236113917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Christians don't write genetic algorithms; they intelligently design them. < 1236113956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :intelligent design algorithm? < 1236113972 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds awesome < 1236113973 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not < 1236113976 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1236113987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, actually genetic ones tend to not evolve the actual algorithm, just the parameters < 1236113996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or fudge factors < 1236114009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: elders _|_ < 1236114016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ? < 1236114046 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha fudge factory you mean the ass? :D < 1236114093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't < 1236114098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe ehird did < 1236114292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Scheme seemed closer to the (register) machine than C, and it seemed like a nice alternative to assembly language." < 1236114334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, source < 1236114342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anonymous. < 1236114349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well where did you get it... < 1236114355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the internet. < 1236114359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, link? < 1236114366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://internet.com/ < 1236114370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236114385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that exists < 1236114678 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236114768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: has the underhanded c contest disappeared? < 1236114780 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no < 1236114784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://underhanded.xcott.com/ < 1236114786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure? < 1236114789 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a slashdot article about the IOCCC disappearing < 1236114795 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xcott himself showed up on the comments < 1236114803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the site is gone. < 1236114811 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, really? < 1236114817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://underhanded.xcott.com/ < 1236114820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did just link you. < 1236114822 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=arvid@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236114836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't look gone to me, just broken < 1236114869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1236114876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :broken = gone < 1236114883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the5k.org has been broken for years; it's gone < 1236114887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :email him < 1236114899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or her < 1236114902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah with my psychic email guessing powers. < 1236114910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, don't know his email? < 1236114910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I imagine he knows. < 1236115160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate hate hate how ioccc's .c links don't open in the browser. < 1236115171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your browser is misconfigured, then < 1236115185 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it's sending as application/octet-stream for some reason < 1236115190 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION glares at paste.eso-std.org < 1236115197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I beg to differ: Content-Type: text/x-csrc < 1236115198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed < 1236115202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not even a valid content type < 1236115205 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf? < 1236115207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you liked it well enough before AnMaster complained about it < 1236115209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, why is it using that type? < 1236115212 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, I liked it < 1236115218 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to point out you were being inconsistent < 1236115219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ioccc.org's server is misconfigured, then. < 1236115223 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, agreed < 1236115224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed < 1236115228 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly both, actually < 1236115348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I wouldn't give for mkcd() { mkdir $1; cd $1 } < 1236115351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, I just did it. < 1236115369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hardly ever mkdir < 1236115374 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so mkcd isn't all that useful < 1236115452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, the vast majority of ioccc programs can't be compiled by default. :D < 1236115505 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're shipped with makefiles < 1236115512 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, you do need to use the makefile normally < 1236115517 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least copy the options by hand < 1236115519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but they fail with the makefile < 1236115519 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-D options are very common < 1236115525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used the toplevel recursive make < 1236115529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and most of them failed badly < 1236115539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort of error messages? < 1236115545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax errors, etc < 1236115555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, a lot of them are due to traditional C < 1236115559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pre-ANSI < 1236115559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236115575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, -traditional-cpp to GCC may help < 1236115587 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the catchall -traditional will probably work better < 1236115595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to handle pre-ANSIisms in the source code itself < 1236115599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, 2004/arachnid is awesome < 1236115600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, both do the same according to man gcc here < 1236115604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many of the older programs have ansified versions < 1236115608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : -traditional < 1236115608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : -traditional-cpp < 1236115608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Formerly, these options caused GCC to attempt to emulate a pre-standard C compiler. They are now only supported with the -E < 1236115608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : switch. The preprocessor continues to support a pre-standard mode. See the GNU CPP manual for details. < 1236115614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236115626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, gcc 4.1.2 < 1236115660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" see http://bellard.org/ for QEMU (Fabrice Bellard is an IOCCC 2001 winner), " < 1236115661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1236115702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there is one IOCCC entry that includes a configure < 1236115703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236115711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc "worst abuse of rules" < 1236115713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for that year < 1236115744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2004 < 1236115887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, check that one out < 1236115891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hibachi < 1236115892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did < 1236116226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" * I achieved some additional tightness by '-Dif=while', saved 9 chars " < 1236116226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1236116311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wh:D < 1236116313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, :D < 1236116442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION writes OCR program. < 1236116455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will recognize A, C, D and E. < 1236116501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why those only? < 1236116516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're the only ones I've calculated OCR-optimization-count vectors for. < 1236116526 0 :jix_!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-108-154.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1236116551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err, how do you mean? < 1236116565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't question your elders. < 1236116577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are not my elder < 1236116649 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server" < 1236116932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/private/qb2tg9bvpnsv2rw2q0ljgg This may or may not work, YMMV. < 1236117113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1236117158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If anyone wants to give it a bigger alphabet/write a main()/test it, feel free :P < 1236117209 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236117239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236117423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I nominate you :P < 1236117467 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1236117474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, thanks but no < 1236117495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm going to sleep shortly, and your program will just be forgotten < 1236117503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh irony. < 1236117510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, i'm testing it now. < 1236117512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So not quite. < 1236117515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1236117561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I expect unit tests with 100% coverage too! ;P < 1236117570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To hell with unit tests. < 1236117571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, one bug however: < 1236117573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :char *s = "ACDE"; < 1236117575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be < 1236117579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :const char *s = "ACDE"; < 1236117582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1236117586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :char s[] = "ACDE"; < 1236117589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'd run now, before I kill you. < 1236117597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what? < 1236117617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't consider that a bug; you've said it before and I've replied that before, so you do know. < 1236117852 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236117859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is against the C standard. < 1236117885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That code is invalid C89? I don't believe you. < 1236117932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I don't have the C89 spec. I know it breaks C99 technically < 1236117964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If any implementation supported C99 I'd agree. < 1236118716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you are not allowed to modify that char* = "ABCE" even in C89 < 1236118717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1236118726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s[2] = 'G' < 1236118735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't modify it. < 1236118748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can't modify a string literal, umm, no shit, I do know c < 1236118816 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which part of C99 it breaks, though? < 1236119128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I don't remember section number < 1236119138 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but what's it about? < 1236119138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I do remember reading it < 1236119154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the type of a string literal is const char*, not char* < 1236119162 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's just not true. < 1236119198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :truth must not get in the way of zealotry! < 1236119206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh? < 1236119210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm quite sure < 1236119212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well actually < 1236119216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :const char[length] < 1236119230 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6.4.5 String literals: "-- character sequence is then used to initialize an array of static storage duration and length just sufficient to contain the sequence. For character string literals, the array elements have type char, and are initialized with --" < 1236119231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a pointer to one would be const char* < 1236119234 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no "const" there. < 1236119269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I'm quite sure I read it though < 1236119274 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Peace and Protection 4.22.2" < 1236119284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have time to find it now, since I'm going to bed. But I'll look tomorrow < 1236119302 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is even an example about this. < 1236119346 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXAMPLE 5: The following three expressions have different meanings: "foo", (char []){"foo"}, (const char []){"foo"} [I abbreviated the example string a bit here] < 1236119381 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The first always has static storage duration and has type array of char, but need not be modifiable; the last two have automatic storage duration when they occur within the body of a function, and the first of these two is modifiable." < 1236119403 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that quite clearly is saying that a plain "foo" is of type array of char. < 1236119405 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even if a string literal were a const char *, that wouldn't mean that you couldn't initialize a non-const char * to point to one. < 1236119455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true, you can cast away const < 1236119469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ... so why did you say my code was invalid? < 1236119470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see. < 1236119483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, It looks I misremembered < 1236119492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike you I can admit that. < 1236119522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do realise that I haven't actually denied misremembering once? < 1236119544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no, but not admitting you were wrong < 1236119558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is same category < 1236119568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still I'd say it is good practise to use const, to reduce possible bugs. < 1236119576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, right, I forgot reality wasn't actually relevant when saying such things < 1236119577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for non-trivial programs it helps. < 1236119586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1236119594 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All this proves is that the people writing C standards are a bunch of sissies, for not having the balls to change the type of string literals. < 1236119775 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"..." < 1236119835 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say what you want about C++, at least it has const char string literals. < 1236120484 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236121003 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=arvid@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236121232 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236122251 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"night" < 1236122544 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=arvid@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236122570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :baguette < 1236122673 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236122688 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=arvid@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236122866 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236124905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[If one extend slightly the syntax for gerunds, DIAL can be implemented < 1236124905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as: < 1236124906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLEASE ABSTAIN FROM EVERYTHING EXCEPT COMING FROM + ANSWERING < 1236124909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHILE REINSTATING THEM ]] < 1236124910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more literate than cobol < 1236129110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236129120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night really (failed to sleep first) < 1236140643 0 :psygnisfive!n=psygnisf@c-71-57-164-119.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236149793 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip70-171-213-254.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236152881 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does anyone know of any unicode characters other than eszet where the toUpper() or toLower() cannot be reversed? < 1236152900 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ie changing case twice returns you to a different codepoint) < 1236152922 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unicode counts as an esolang right? :P) < 1236152990 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's scary reading the logs, fizzie is such a me. < 1236153028 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does eszet do when you change it twice? < 1236153054 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ß uppercased is SS. < 1236153059 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And SS lowercased is just ss. < 1236153079 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ligatures have similar behaviour. < 1236153091 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just look at the list in http://www.unicode.org/Public/3.2-Update/SpecialCasing-3.2.0.txt for all special-cased things. < 1236153286 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course for all uppercase characters x, toLower(toUpper(x)) "returns" to a different codepoint, but I suppose that wasn't the question. < 1236153334 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually http://www.unicode.org/Public/UNIDATA/SpecialCasing.txt is a better link, since it's version 5.1.0 instead of 3.2.0. < 1236153367 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does not seem to be very much different. < 1236153450 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph, god it's hard searching the logs based on remembering a topic. < 1236153468 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should probably make a better searcher program < 1236153471 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one that understands < 1236153486 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, what especially "you" I did in the logs this time? < 1236153507 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said something about not seeing a reason to make mistakes < 1236153521 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may have been a joke, but i'm pretty sure i've said the exact same line. < 1236153583 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was also some other one, but by then i may just have been looking for similarities sub...erconsciously. < 1236153599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1236153600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1236153658 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to have been writing no-uppercase-at-the-beginning-of-sentences as late as 2004. < 1236153735 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your style has actually changed a lot, while i see oklisms in both the old and the new fizzie, you're not always very *fizzie* in the backlogs. < 1236153751 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this i cannot give examples of. < 1236153816 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I don't recognize myself in 1990s-age logs (of other channels) at all. < 1236153845 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway what i was searching the logs for is i remember once correcting an error of ehird's, and for some reason he just wouldn't admit he was wrong even though i clearly couldn't go on with my life without him admitting it. but maybe he did admit it then, or maybe i just imagined this, because i couldn't find it. < 1236153870 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not trivial to write a regexp to match that. < 1236153886 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed not, also i don't even use a regexp. < 1236153899 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just search for a string < 1236153908 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you could graph ehird- and oklopol-densities over time, and look only at spots where those have noticeable peaks simultaneously. < 1236153927 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah there will only be like 2-3 of those per day. < 1236153945 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1236153946 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I like graphs. < 1236153958 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe like dialog densities < 1236153966 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1236153978 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was also oerjan or someone there, it was very spread out... < 1236154015 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway i should probably start my readings ~> < 1236154287 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, but I like graphs. <<< i like the good kind of graphs < 1236155608 0 :tombom!i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1236157265 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1236159872 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236162151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yes, but I like graphs. <-- :D < 1236162349 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it's been such a while after my last graph-drawing, here's a messy one of channel activity over the whole year 2008: http://zem.fi/~fis/esoteric-2008.png < 1236162377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what is the scale? < 1236162386 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who knows. :p < 1236162405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what is the gap with 0 activity in the beginning? < 1236162449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh and what app did you use to draw this? < 1236162453 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the Y axis is "number of lines over three consecutive days", with each X-axis pixel stepping the window start time by 8 hours; and the nicknames are ordered by total line-counts. < 1236162462 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a custom Perl script with GD.pm, again. < 1236162467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1236162471 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why there's no grid. :p < 1236162486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw, that interactive fungot browser thingy... what was the url now again? < 1236162487 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: here's a problem: you're modifying a global packages.scm; i never considered tic-tac-toe a game < 1236162491 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gap is in my logs, I probably again forgot to "/connect freenode", since I don't have it on automagically. < 1236162513 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was at http://zem.fi/~fis/fungot.html but I haven't continued the commentation, and the source might be a bit old. < 1236162513 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hi evoli. < 1236162520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236162520 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: I'm not evoli. < 1236162521 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: so should i waste time on irc" ( ircnet) < 1236162528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is evoli? < 1236162554 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone on #scheme. < 1236162563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1236162572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot, I prefer if you spent your time in here < 1236162572 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but decided not to bother u for this one < 1236162581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1236162585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good < 1236162590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I gess < 1236162593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess* < 1236162649 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh... actually it seems that the source is current (since it's fetched with a xmlhttprequest-style ajaxy thing from fungot.b98.txt) but the syntax highlighting doesn't match it. :p < 1236162649 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: dating advice? mzscheme? gambit? sisc? < 1236162671 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Are you sure those things have to do with dating? < 1236162671 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i found on the net." this is a public forum < 1236162689 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-13-129.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236163283 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236163775 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and here's the same thing as relative activities: http://zem.fi/~fis/esoteric-2008-r.png -- about the only clear thing in it is the ehird/tusho nickname-switcheroo. < 1236164580 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@a91-153-121-248.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1236166828 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving..." < 1236170585 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.121 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236171039 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay enigma pack 3, level 46 was a fun, nontrivial puzzle < 1236171084 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay it was kinda trivial after i familiarized myself with the concept of moving bricks, but it took me a while to get there < 1236171091 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah, enigma++ < 1236171183 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finds it interesting to see what oklopol sees and doesn't see as hard < 1236171228 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well more interesting than hard, took me three attempts, and on the first one i just tried something at random < 1236171279 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the second i rationalized the beginning but took a few chances on intuition and failed < 1236171620 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236171768 0 :Mony!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-96-133.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236171836 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plop < 1236171843 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1236172041 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intuition: just say no. < 1236172097 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's a pretty useless thing < 1236173757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:25 fizzie: Since it's been such a while after my last graph-drawing, here's a messy one of channel activity over the whole year 2008: http://zem.fi/~fis/esoteric-2008.png < 1236173762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like it < 1236173775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, mine is kind of skewed since I say things in multiple lines. < 1236173778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:05 fizzie: Maybe you could graph ehird- and oklopol-densities over time, and look only at spots where those have noticeable peaks simultaneously. < 1236173779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:05 oklopol: yeah there will only be like 2-3 of those per day. < 1236173780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236173795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:49 fizzie: Oh, and here's the same thing as relative activities: http://zem.fi/~fis/esoteric-2008-r.png -- about the only clear thing in it is the ehird/tusho nickname-switcheroo. < 1236173799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tha's a lot of oklopol < 1236173818 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty < 1236173842 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm actually surprised how high "others" is < 1236173861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it has the peaks, prolly from when new people arrive < 1236173864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or asiekierka < 1236173873 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would like to see a smoothed version of the first graph < 1236173879 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe with weekly moving averages < 1236174225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Dan Bernstein awards $1,000 for a security hole discovered in djbdns -- its first in almost a decade!" < 1236174226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woah < 1236174232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he actually awarded it < 1236174233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :djb++ < 1236174265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, aparently there was a security hole in qmail that was discovered a while back that he didn't award for < 1236174274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it only manifested on computers with at least 56GB of RAM < 1236174329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, well, that makes sense < 1236174336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this bug is one that can actually be exploited < 1236175837 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that activity graph might be better if it also showed how much talk actually happened < 1236175852 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also how's that a lot of oklopol, it's much more of everyone else < 1236175872 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe more than you'd've thought, but i don't see how that's an interesting observation :P < 1236175888 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION mentions level 46 again < 1236175902 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes back to his bookings -> < 1236176565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: want a challenge? try the Experimental set, "Impossible?" < 1236176584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I've done that one, it's easy < 1236176591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut :D < 1236176597 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there wasn't anything special about it IIRC < 1236176602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure there is < 1236176602 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAICT, it's unfinished < 1236176604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's impossible < 1236176609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1236176610 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did I not notice? < 1236176613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi AnMaster < 1236176669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it's impossible <-- no, but you have to guess very luckily < 1236176707 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure I remember finding a magic wand on that level, which makes it trivial < 1236176720 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, maybe there's a hidden wand somewhere that you can only obtain in the first few seconds < 1236176772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: < 1236176777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're thinking of Impultest < 1236176777 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but as AnMaster mentions, it's clearly possible if you get to the corner oxyds before the bolders do and they happen to be the right colour < 1236176777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just finished it < 1236176807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, you need to get to the one in the top right corner quickly < 1236176819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you must get it correctly on the next block < 1236176822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after that: trivial < 1236176845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you actually get two tries, you can hit a block on your way to the corner oxyd < 1236176851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, true < 1236176888 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not interested in puzzles that require dexterity or any kind of guesswork, and usually not ones that require exploring either, unless they happen to be fun for some reason, but a good puzzle will always be nicer anyway. < 1236176925 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i love exploring concepts, like how something moves, but i don't like searching the level for information, or physically exploring large areas < 1236176986 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. i guess i just like to solve the things in my brain and not in the game. < 1236177303 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-091-159.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1236177451 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What game is this about? ;o < 1236177473 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically a generic puzzle game < 1236177485 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which can emulate most of the others as long as you flavour them as involving marbles < 1236177494 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "Great minds" and so on; I actually did weekly averages before you mentioned them. http://zem.fi/~fis/esoteric-2008-smooth.png < 1236177516 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it has dexterity-based, speed-based, knowledge-based, intelligence-based, and patience-based puzzles < 1236177524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol seems to like the intelligence-based ones best < 1236177554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm basically the loudest person on average, then, if you discount AnMaster's 5 billion "Deewiant: boring thing about befunge" per day. < 1236177562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That matches my intuitive experience. :P < 1236177586 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does this game have a name? < 1236177595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: Enigma < 1236177607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nongnu.org/enigma/ < 1236177615 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1236177663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: try the microban levels < 1236177693 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1236177697 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recognize this game < 1236177704 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've played it before < 1236177707 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much everyone here does, somehow < 1236177835 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems me and psygnisfive take turns being on top < 1236177840 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm he isn't here < 1236177841 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nm < 1236177844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*groan* < 1236177885 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1236177904 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :microban < 1236177915 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe at some point i will < 1236178218 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Occasional visitors are more visible in other graphs. http://zem.fi/~fis/test.png has 2009 January (day-long windows, X-scale 1 hour per pixel, relative percentages of activity) and the fluxo invasion is very visible. < 1236178265 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flexo, not fluxo. Anyway. < 1236178283 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A grid would be nice too. And some labels. < 1236178289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a pony yo < 1236178343 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's flexo < 1236178344 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1236178350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a german guy < 1236178685 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Statistics are interesting < 1236178788 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=arvid@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236178812 0 :M0ny!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-80-194.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236178972 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, we're certainly putting the ATTIC back in the stATisTICs. < 1236179210 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're putting the TITS back in staTIsTicS! < 1236179237 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't want to be rude. < 1236179263 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There are 23 women and 15 men in a conference. The women's cup sizes are: (etc). The men weight: (etc). How many tits are there?) < 1236179288 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I only do the cumulative-activity-thingamajick but not the normalization inherent in the relative-activity-thing, the flexo invasion loses prominence: http://zem.fi/~fis/test2.png < 1236179358 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... wtfbbq? < 1236179415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :activity graph. < 1236179719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOLY SHIT < 1236179721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * (del) (cur) 16:29, 22 September 2006 . . Tom Duff (Talk | contribs) . . 513×385 (10,841 bytes) (The output of a sample EXPLOR program.) < 1236179724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--esolangs wiki < 1236179728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tom Duff. < 1236179734 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is he? < 1236179740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ... Duff's Device. < 1236179746 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, wow < 1236179756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also wrote Unix10/Plan9's "rc" shell < 1236179761 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the same Tom Duff :P < 1236179775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: no, it is < 1236179778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/User:Tom_Duff < 1236179784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My wikipedia bio links to tom duff on wikipedia < 1236179812 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236179815 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*snaps* < 1236179830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was that your spine? < 1236179853 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a godawful picture of him :P < 1236179858 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least, I sure hope it is :P < 1236179862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evil Tom Duff < 1236179876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, programmers aren't known for their beauty < 1236179881 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Your femur is broken." "Broken as in 'not functioning properly'?" "Broken as in, 'there are 2 smaller femurs where you used to have one.'" "Hmm, 2 femurs. Will this give me super powers?" "If you consider the ability to writhe in pain a super power, then yes." < 1236179883 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does he have a beard? < 1236179887 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, the 'snap' just reminded me. < 1236179889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no < 1236179892 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how we can tell if duff's device will stay popular < 1236179898 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as he doesn't, presumably it's falling out of fashion < 1236179907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it never got into fashion < 1236179913 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, exactly < 1236179936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: his favicon looks better http://www.tomduff.com/index.html < 1236179945 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1236179957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sure. Here's a moderately recent picture of me sitting unshaven in my office scowling at my son, who was playing with the camera. At least I combed my hair. Do whatever you want with it. Tom Duff (talk) 05:53, 16 January 2008 (UTC) " < 1236179959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-talk:tom duff < 1236180082 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236180092 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.121 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236180104 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb me < 1236180114 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox 3 /added/ support for Gopher :P < 1236180117 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's weird :P < 1236180128 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Full support that is) < 1236180131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT CANNOT COMPETE WITH VONKEROR < 1236180134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or sth < 1236180323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I've thought up some definitions for IO-complete. < 1236180362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I-complete: The program can, at its will, accept linear text input from the user and then use that text to modify its internal state with complete differentiation of all characters in the alphabet. < 1236180368 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: does it do client-BF? < 1236180369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No? < 1236180375 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it doesn't have full support < 1236180386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O-complete: The program can, at its will, output linear text combined in any arbitrary way from its internal state. < 1236180388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thoughts? < 1236180413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the usual definition is that it can produce any output that's a Turing-computable (or substitute other computational class here) function of its input < 1236180426 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words, that its input -> output processing computational class is the same as the computational class of the lang as a whole < 1236180429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't handle interactive programs ala BF < 1236180444 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it have to? < 1236180446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm basically trying to define the set of languages that, to the user, are indistinguishable from BF. < 1236180449 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1236180461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is basically the standard model with just stdin/stdout < 1236180465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We use "BF-complete" for that, I'd like to formalize the definitions < 1236180479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case, you need to change it to cumulative input -> cumulative output, and allow the program to produce output before all the input is read < 1236180491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I've already said some definitions < 1236180498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just wondering if they're any good < 1236181125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what lazy apl would be like < 1236181195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from awesome < 1236181749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh look, Eric Schmidt slams Twitter with no more than a vague idea what it is. < 1236181801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, no. Just a bad headline. < 1236181907 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236182024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgur.com/3US8K.png Uhhh... < 1236182264 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1236182613 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey ehird < 1236182618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello. < 1236182668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1236182673 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is not ehird but says hi anyway < 1236182677 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, 'againt the wall' < 1236182682 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was that intentional? :p < 1236182685 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1236182691 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not even sure if it was in the original proposal or not < 1236182694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. also, you want ##nomic or /msg < 1236182707 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, this is ##nomic < 1236182716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're mistaken. < 1236182720 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since ehird isn't in the other nomic channel < 1236182729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure everyone else will appreciate that. < 1236182731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1236182747 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehehe < 1236182760 0 :ehird!n=ehird@208.78.103.223 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236182851 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but Wooble isn't an op here... < 1236183128 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, is that the problem? < 1236183136 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought e was just being a jerk < 1236183145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we keep #esoteric to vaguely esoteric topics? < 1236183155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're trying to direct messages to me, IRC has a facility for that < 1236183177 0 :Hiato!n=1@dsl-245-24-250.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1236183177 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the moment, I'm trying to direct messges to ehird and ais523 < 1236183184 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as anyone else who is interested in nomic < 1236183189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRC has a facility for that, too, but freenode blocks it < 1236183191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a channel for that < 1236183198 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one? < 1236183200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, people join channels they want traffic to do with < 1236183203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and leave ones they don't < 1236183204 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the syntax is /msg ehird,ais523 This is a message to send to two people < 1236183209 0 :Hiato1!n=1@dsl-245-24-250.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1236183214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally, disrespecting this choice leads to people ignoring you < 1236183214 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[16:13] <-> ehird,comex> test < 1236183215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[16:13] [407] PRIVMSG Too many recipients. Only 1 processed < 1236183224 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: except you're ehird < 1236183232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, if you want to continue to be able to direct messages at me, I'll take the same course of action < 1236183234 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and generally overreact to things < 1236183237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you keep doing this < 1236183250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comexk: you want to talk to me, you play by my rules. simple enough < 1236183250 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah well, i can just ignore you < 1236183274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would solve both problems < 1236183274 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: why are you playing nomic if you don't want to talk about nomic? < 1236183288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who said I don't want to talk about nomic? I don't want to talk about nomic in irc in ##nomic. < 1236183297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Email me or something. Or use /msg. < 1236183308 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1236183320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How will I deal with this loss. < 1236183478 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523, should I put up something following the same implementation in C but that is sane < 1236183494 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that may be a violation of the spirit of Deadfish. Or not. < 1236183560 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Agh, I ran into GreyKnight -again- < 1236183576 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it's the same person? it's a fairly obvious nick... < 1236183604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :relatively < 1236183613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well,. < 1236183614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not so much now. < 1236183621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: quite, though. < 1236183622 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course running into people on Agora, esolang and wikipedia isn't unheard of from before. < 1236183626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it has information about his kilt. < 1236183637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't recall how I know he has a kilt from other sources < 1236183638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I do < 1236183665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, apparently he's a christian who has vowed, among other things, to "Refrain from cutting the hair on one's head". < 1236183667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go figure. < 1236183692 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, christians don't have do vow that AFAIK, but presumably there's nothing to stop them vowing that if they want to < 1236183696 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1236183706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: part of the nazirite vow, apparently < 1236183709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that's a jewish thng < 1236183710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*thing < 1236183720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a good excuse to avoid cutting your head if you're a teen, I suppose < 1236183733 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a sikh thing to do < 1236183861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm ok < 1236183868 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : how does Deadfish behave on EOF? < 1236183887 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think there may be some bug there too... < 1236184170 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and ais523, ihope (iirc), oerjan, everyone < 1236184185 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rumors of my adminhood are _still_ exaggerated < 1236184210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me and keymaker are the only Esolang admins who are active with admin work, IIRC < 1236184218 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we're only active with it when there's actual admin work to do < 1236184219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# (diff) (hist) . . Esolang:Community Portal‎; 19:18 . . (+9) . . Zzo38 (Talk | contribs) (tunes.org logs are now listed in descending order of date) < 1236184223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clever guy, my idea is indeed good. < 1236184223 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is nearly all cleaning up spam < 1236184232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even tho I stole it from #concatenative < 1236184232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and blocking the people responsible < 1236184250 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or more likely the zombies responsible < 1236184259 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brains... < 1236184269 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is a responsible zombie. Oh wait. < 1236184276 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf ,[.,]!This may not be a good channel to take brains into < 1236184276 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This may not be a good channel to take brains into < 1236184280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a sort-of-unique idea, based on INTERCAL and Forte. < 1236184284 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes? < 1236184296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, it's all redefining language constructs. < 1236184307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clever < 1236184311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, to terminate a loop, for instance, you change the loop end command into a nop. < 1236184313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things like that. < 1236184317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the whole language is based around that one operation. < 1236184341 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how I normally terminate short loops in INTERCAL nowadays too, but your language would presumably go much further < 1236184355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236184404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm trying to figure out how to have actual computation if all you can do is remap constructs... < 1236184429 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1236184437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may be able to use the constructs as a minsky machine < 1236184443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't do "jump to the next line." < 1236184449 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't do "Don't do "jump to the next line."" < 1236184450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you need a nop then < 1236184457 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remove a copy of Don't do from the preceding line < 1236184467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 goto 20 -> nop 20 ... < 1236184471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need goto and nop there < 1236184476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's two more non-swap primitives < 1236184482 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236184484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to bake the computation into the swapping, somehow < 1236184489 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, nop is easily represented by 0 commands < 1236184496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just replace a command with nothing < 1236184502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236184502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236184509 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that might be a little hard to reverse, but I'm sure there's a way < 1236184523 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for goto, you need some way not to fall off the end of the program < 1236184524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then with one more operator: "current remapped value of" < 1236184526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could do: < 1236184571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^10;^20/.^20;stuff. < 1236184575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ is the current value of < 1236184579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on its own in a statement, does nothing < 1236184581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we use it as line numbers < 1236184585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what about ///? < 1236184588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. is statement terminator, ; is subexpression terminator < 1236184589 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your language is reminding me of that < 1236184595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :problem is, it just cancels out the ^20 < 1236184596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the stuff < 1236184599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so: < 1236184612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^10;[^20;?]/.^20;stuff. < 1236184619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erases the ^20 line < 1236184621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more spacious: < 1236184630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^10; [^20; ?] / . < 1236184632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^20; stuff. < 1236184648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty sure that's tc. < 1236184668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the RHS of / is evaluated ofc < 1236184721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^10; [20;?] / ^[10;?]. < 1236184721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^20. < 1236184724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's an imnp < 1236184725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imp < 1236184726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1236184728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236184730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236184733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't use ? in a [] ofc < 1236184873 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : He's not here, but I'm sure that message will find him eventually. < 1236184881 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LIES < 1236184929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot what I was doing. :( < 1236184939 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Area-preserving affine transformations preserve both of these. < 1236184966 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey! < 1236184970 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what they do not preserve, however, are rectangles not aligned with the ellipse axes < 1236184988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was I doing, ais523? < 1236184993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :area-preserving affine transformations are rotations, reflections, translations, enlargements in one direction combined with an equal contraction in the other direction, shears... < 1236184999 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lots of others, I expect < 1236185006 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: inventing an INTERCAL/Forte hybrid < 1236185021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, no, I lost interest in that about half way through and returned to my previous doings, which was X. < 1236185023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is X? < 1236185040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you were discussing GreyKnight before that < 1236185063 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but those are trivial to enlarge. < 1236185075 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So we can ignore those. < 1236185079 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: they are? < 1236185093 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Just rotate and enlarge them. < 1236185106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yeah, well, I didn't actually tell this channel. < 1236185108 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um no... < 1236185118 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: how am I meant to guess, then? < 1236185128 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I find it likely that those are the only area-preserving affine transformations. < 1236185129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Telepathy. < 1236185139 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, I'm fresh out of floating eye corpses < 1236185160 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: well, combinations of those are clearly also area-preserving affine transformations < 1236185162 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cannot rotate in an ellipse < 1236185199 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to change into a circle first, which destroys rectangles < 1236185245 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course i find it unlikely that a largest rectangle would _not_ be aligned with the axes, but it needs proof < 1236185536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc -E $* < 1236185540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pop quiz: Spot the fuck up. < 1236185606 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something to do with quoting? < 1236185619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, gcc will ignore non-.c files as "linker input" < 1236185635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KICK ASS OR WHAT?!?!? < 1236185664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's fixable < 1236185664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-x c < 1236185673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just doing /usr/bin/cpp -no-traditional-cpp $* < 1236185720 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-x c is a nice trick to know anyway < 1236185738 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ais523 glares at paste.eso-std.org < 1236185750 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, eso-std.org exists again? < 1236185785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WAIT WHAT THE FUCK, /usr/bin/cpp is a SHELL SCRIPT < 1236185788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that-is-not-right < 1236185792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Transitional front end to CCCP to make it behave like (Reiser) CCP: < 1236185793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# specifies -traditional < 1236185794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# doesn't search gcc-include < 1236185796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# < 1236185798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Copyright (c) 1990 The Regents of the University of California. < 1236185800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# All rights reserved. < 1236185803 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm apparently not < 1236185804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha what the flying fck < 1236185805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fuck < 1236185813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's not right, is it. < 1236185852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Something* has shat all over my /usr/bin/cpp, methinks. < 1236185877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...nope, that's /Developer/usr/bin/cpp < 1236185891 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: they're trying to make it a killer app, i see < 1236185954 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is expecting bodily harm just about now < 1236185958 0 :ais523_!n=ais523@147.188.254.121 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236185967 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you can do whatever you want in an ellipse. < 1236185990 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have a rectangle in an ellipse and their axes are aligned, that rectangle's corners do not all lie on the ellipse. < 1236185993 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats kerlo -----### < 1236185998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/bin/sh < 1236185998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# apple's cpp is broken... < 1236185999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# Update 2009-03-04: FUCK YOU APPLE PIECES OF SHIT < 1236186002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The evolution of a file header. < 1236186018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works now. How unexpected. < 1236186032 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's easy enough to rotate a rectangle such that its two corners remain on the ellipse; you just have to scale it at the same time. < 1236186040 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: by aligned i mean simply in direction < 1236186071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1236186074 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523 < 1236186123 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me too. < 1236186123 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: while preserving area? < 1236186153 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: oh wait you were missing a "not" < 1236186158 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or so i think < 1236186179 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not while preserving area, no. < 1236186208 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I'm saying is that the biggest rectangle you can fit in an ellipse is aligne with the ellipse. < 1236186222 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: needs proof < 1236186270 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well clearly that's the beautiful answer you'd expect. < 1236186289 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why prove it and risk ruining it < 1236186293 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Suppose you have a rectangle that is in an ellipse and not aligned with the ellipse. It is possible to rotate the rectangle so that it is aligned with the elipse; upon doing so, it will be possible to make the rectangle bigger while remaining in the ellipse. Contradiction. Q.E.D. < 1236186302 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236186305 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where's the proof :D < 1236186329 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: it's the remaining in the ellipse part that needs some proof < 1236186366 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You prove it, then. :-P < 1236186372 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too lazy :D < 1236186380 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: adding enough formality will prove anything. < 1236186394 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: um, unwrap definitions and you'll probably have it directly < 1236186413 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's nice. < 1236186428 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am assuming it would require some length calculations or something < 1236186450 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically you calculate the expression of the rectangle's area and find the zero of the derivative, prolly. < 1236186480 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and by that expression i mean f(x) : angle -> area < 1236186491 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which may not be hard, but rather diminishes the elegance of transforming to a circle afterwards < 1236186511 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i have no idea about context, i just found kerlo's statement funny :P < 1236186517 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now i need to go do a shoppe! < 1236186542 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: just don't get caught < 1236186598 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :onion rings! < 1236186601 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!!! < 1236186602 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1236186633 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236186639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you trap overflow on x86? < 1236186647 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when onion rings, don't answer < 1236186697 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.121 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236186701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1236186705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't suppose you would know: < 1236186706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you trap overflow on x86? < 1236186714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know offhand < 1236186725 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but based on my experiences of x86, I'd guess "with difficulty" < 1236186725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you even do it? < 1236187166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how to allocate huge things (1gb) on the stack with alloca < 1236187178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably you can't, is the stack that big? < 1236187203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess not. < 1236187224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, my malloc() returns surprisingly clean results. like 0x200000 < 1236187302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is there any way to expand the stack? < 1236187307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on the OS < 1236187321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsd < 1236187323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to map in more memory in the address space it expands into < 1236187333 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't know whether that's possible or not on BSD < 1236187335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor how < 1236187343 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... are you working on that INTERCAL VM? < 1236187351 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds like it, based on what you're saying < 1236187351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not right now < 1236187444 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Tom Duff. < 1236187459 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he did quite a bit on the wiki on esolang history iirc < 1236187498 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing about pre-INTERCAL esolangs, IIRC < 1236187904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so, how do you do it in linux? < 1236187927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know that either < 1236187931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1236188696 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm synchronicity < 1236188708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: itym coincidence < 1236188712 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grey Knight is on wp Did you Know < 1236188718 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatev < 1236188731 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*knight < 1236188737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1236188768 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1236188887 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and the third one is about broken femurs, which were _also_ mentioned in the channel logs today :D < 1236188919 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.121 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236188944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The first time I saw a program written in Forth, I thought the developer was just making up the language as he went along. Then I discovered that he was." < 1236188949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : — reddit < 1236188955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1236189002 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would apply to any language suitable for DSELs... < 1236189003 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :( http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8210z/forth_is_a_program_that_interfaces_keyboards_with/ ) < 1236189014 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, EDSL? < 1236189021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ESDLs < 1236189022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no < 1236189023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forth is more fluid < 1236189024 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same difference < 1236189032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't get rid of lisp's parentheses, but you can turn forth into anything < 1236189051 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure you can get rid of lisp's parentheses < 1236189058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in r5rs. < 1236189059 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(interpret-my-language "................................................") < 1236189065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not extending the language. < 1236189067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not embedded. < 1236189113 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's embedded in a sense, you could call stuff from the outer scope from in there < 1236189121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's really not. < 1236189126 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm the french term would have LSD in it, i'm sure < 1236189205 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a sensible and generally accepted definition for what exactly a DSEL is anyway < 1236189229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your put lol < 1236189271 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: er? < 1236189283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant to say your butt lol. < 1236189286 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1236189309 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.121 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236189364 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ESDL gives all sorts of other meanings < 1236189377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant EDSL < 1236189404 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that actually gives a hit < 1236189406 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DSEL is a buzzword < 1236189424 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although there are still other meanings < 1236189430 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means, "I'm too cool for things like OOP but I still want my own acronyms" < 1236189478 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh DSEL is also defined < 1236189508 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITCFTLOBISWMOA? < 1236189513 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's short for "acronym we cannot decide on the ordering of" < 1236189527 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AWCDOTOO sounds interesting, actually < 1236189551 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what language-specific embedded domains are < 1236189614 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah the french term for domain specific language is "Langage dédié" < 1236189646 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly someone censored the s part < 1236190115 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1236190196 0 :jix_!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-089-111.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1236190385 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Quit" < 1236190519 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236190992 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236191933 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1236192175 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-034-036.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1236193521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Deewiant < 1236193547 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yello < 1236193552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1236193578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, see the comments I made directed at you during the past few weeks but that you never responded to < 1236193598 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was nothing worth responding to :-P < 1236193606 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, cfunge almost runs on BSD, or something < 1236193608 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what should I say to that < 1236193820 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1236193906 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FILE lacks a way to truncate files: yes, it does, complain to mike if you feel something should be done < 1236193917 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing else, I guess < 1236194330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://drplokta.livejournal.com/109267.html < 1236194332 0 :jix_!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-121-061.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1236195190 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1236195756 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236196238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so! < 1236196241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm writing a Forth in JS. < 1236196248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Badly suited, you say? Quite so my good chap! < 1236196300 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :badly suited for forth, forsooth < 1236196356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 did a lot of interpreters in JS, I imagine he'd like it < 1236196386 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's because JS is a good lang for quick throwaway programs that you can easily show to other people < 1236196391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most people have a JS interp on them < 1236196401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's by far my favourite lang for programming in on public terminals < 1236196410 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION picks his nose and pulls out a JS interp < 1236196447 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'snot what you think, honestly < 1236196488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1236196506 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i blame picasso < 1236196771 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes JS < 1236196798 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-123-007.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1236196890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236196910 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes swatting FireFly -----### < 1236196918 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION dislikes swatters < 1236196938 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that a swat I see, or what? < 1236196946 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION confuses FireFly by making a JS swatter < 1236196952 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1236196971 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1236197198 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1236197249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236197257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how big should my stack/heap/dictionary be, I wonder. < 1236197266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, return stack can be smaller than data stack < 1236197272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i onl yhave 64mb to work with here < 1236197284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dictionary will probably be tiny, let's say 5MB < 1236197285 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not more < 1236197294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: you can't allocate too much with JS < 1236197296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just fails silently < 1236197309 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely that depends on your interpreter < 1236197313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, duh < 1236197316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm running it in a browser < 1236197330 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, that'd explain it now wouldn't it :-P < 1236197337 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider not doing so < 1236197352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that's the whole point < 1236197362 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, fine then < 1236197516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dictionary 8MB < 1236197517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :return stack 8MB < 1236197518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data stack 16MB < 1236197520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heap 32MB < 1236197522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems reasonable to me < 1236197703 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :^C < 1236197703 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1236197714 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1236197714 0 :clog!i=nef@bespin.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1236197721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... clog just got ^C'd? < 1236197723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf bbq < 1236197729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nef is ALIVE?! < 1236197747 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should he be dead? < 1236197764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't heard anything about him later than 2004 < 1236197817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:16 ehird: I was starting to think clog was running totally autonomously there for a few years ... < 1236197817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:16 nef: it was < 1236198042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he's offline again < 1236198045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*poof* < 1236198388 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which channel was that < 1236199271 0 :Hiato1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1236200243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: /mag < 1236200246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/msg < 1236200787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grah, nul-terminated strings are so stupid. < 1236200894 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit too granular < 1236201066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was that a pun < 1236201081 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, do you think it was groanular? < 1236201143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Nantero built a functioning carbon nanotube memory prototype 10 GB (10 × 230 bytes) array in 2004." < 1236201146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did nobody tell me about this < 1236201151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want one, now < 1236201354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236201363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is memory measured in bytes if you address words with it < 1236201365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just ridiculous. < 1236201470 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"The time travelers said we should try to delay ehird finding it out as long as possible" < 1236201486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : no seriously, maybe ais523 knows. < 1236201516 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's for advertising / comparison purpose < 1236201526 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people doing that sort of thing use inappropriate units just because of inertia < 1236201532 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if everyone's using units, so do you < 1236201535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1236201542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just, stupidly, did this: < 1236201544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :var mm = new Array(8388608); // 8MB < 1236201547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spot the bug < 1236201574 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... did you get the number wrong? < 1236201582 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or are arrays not declared like that < 1236201586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, my javascript's got rusty < 1236201595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: memory is an array of words < 1236201601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8388608 is 8MB measured in _bytes_ < 1236201605 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1236201614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, javascript arrays auto-extend anyway < 1236201623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but in this case I'm trying to pre-allocate the whole heap < 1236201624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the bug won't be noticeable except in making things slightly less efficient < 1236201626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and that -over- allocates < 1236201639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :new Array(4194304) // this is correct < 1236201677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, no < 1236201682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2097152 < 1236201683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc < 1236201933 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's not like we can know your word size here. < 1236201942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a VM < 1236201946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 32-bit, so 4 bytes < 1236201994 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think "VM" implies "32-bit". < 1236202021 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it doesn't! < 1236202028 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION writes a 31-bit Subleq interpreter < 1236202086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I mean < 1236202089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"your word size" < 1236202091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I control the word size < 1236202104 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and we can't know what you control it to. < 1236202106 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "so" in 32-bit is still misplaced < 1236202137 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1236202218 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think C would be a very appropriate language for a Subleq interpreter. < 1236202239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, Forth. < 1236202257 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All you do is allocate a chunk of memory and then use pointers. < 1236202264 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-098-197.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1236202267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forth cuts out the allocation step. < 1236202356 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bonus: Let the Subleq programs refer to the locations of C functions, the stack, and so on. < 1236202375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forth gives you that for free. < 1236202402 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there anything Forth can't do? < 1236202516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: Make you toast. < 1236202532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, yeah, if you just use @ and ! you get the native machine/Forth memory. < 1236203071 0 :atrapado!n=abx@cm40083.red83-165.mundo-r.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1236203137 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :' < 1236203337 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, turns out that incredibly terrible fail of mine was 87.5 percent :P < 1236203360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: lol < 1236203370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: still angry about it? :P < 1236203452 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how could i not be angry about having 3 out of 41 ppl get a better score than me! < 1236203474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :87% would still count as 5/5 though right < 1236203514 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think so. < 1236203717 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"..." < 1236205637 0 :comexk!n=comex@teklinks.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1236205666 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, anyone know how I can find out the CPU cache size and whether all my code will fit into it? < 1236205725 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll be on the datasheet for processors, which you should be able to get from the manufacturer, most give them away free < 1236205736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comexk: are you optimizing Bayes? < 1236205738 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if there's a way to work it out from the OS itself < 1236205771 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not some embedded system, a nice big core 2 :p < 1236205781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you trying to do < 1236205796 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you see, I got an assignment in java class to make a Morse Code translator as efficient as possible < 1236205809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm, the whole JVM would have to fit into the cache, then < 1236205814 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after I decided I couldn't make it fast enough in java, I used JNI to implement it in C < 1236205827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect you'll get deducted marks for that... < 1236205832 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, it's java < 1236205832 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1236205835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"as efficient as possible" is something you shouldn't say within range of an esoprogrammer < 1236205841 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: except that's what I mean < 1236205852 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I don't want to write it in assembly (and I doubt I would gain much from that) < 1236205854 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comexk: is there any way to do Java with inline asm? < 1236205859 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's definitely no standard or sane way < 1236205863 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but surely there must be some way < 1236205863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: he's using JNI < 1236205865 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, there is a standard and a sane way < 1236205868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just C<->Java interface < 1236205871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's writing it in C < 1236205872 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236205873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then binding it to java < 1236205876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and claiming it's java < 1236205885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought he was writing in java and compiling to C, and claiming it was java < 1236205887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus getting his answer marked as wrong... < 1236205925 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naah < 1236205933 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any sane grader will mark it correct < 1236205934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'s what I would do < 1236205947 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can be called from a java class just like any java code < 1236205948 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ANYWAY < 1236205949 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't care < 1236205951 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did they state which java implementation had to be used? < 1236205952 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to optimize the c < 1236205965 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using gcj rather than the jvm should save you a lot of time if you write the code to be properly optimisable < 1236205968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"How can you optimize this Python application?" "I rewrote it all in C then bound the main to python, so now it looks like this: app.main()" < 1236205971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Uh, no." < 1236205972 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and only do things that translate easily into C < 1236205979 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ever heard of cython? < 1236205992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comexk: considering I told you about cython... < 1236205995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus, cython isn't python < 1236205996 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: really, it compiles to native code? < 1236206000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its an extension of python < 1236206002 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: point < 1236206006 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used it recently < 1236206009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comexk: yep < 1236206012 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the native python MutableString implementation is hellslow < 1236206025 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm using JNI because I want efficiency. That's that. < 1236206025 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236206040 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@a91-153-121-248.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1236206043 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...because it allocates a new string every time your string is modified < 1236206085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comexk: so use a list < 1236206099 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: and have a PyObject for every character in the string!? < 1236206108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you using python < 1236206110 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naah, that was a perfect use case for Cython, which worked pretty well < 1236206110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just code it all in C < 1236206116 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :massive speed increase < 1236206123 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, 20 minutes --> 20 seconds < 1236206130 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it used mutalestrings a lot) < 1236206134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're writing in python and want a speed increase, start by rewriting the python interpreter because it's a shit naive bytecode interpreter < 1236206147 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: good point, people do that, too bad nob ody's actually made a good python interpreter < 1236206158 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although 20 seconds is with psyco.full() < 1236206165 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the code isn't optimized for speed < 1236206169 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the python is fairly naive < 1236206177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :python itself does not lend itself to efficiency < 1236206193 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but you can, e.g., not create massive amounts of objects < 1236206217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to write in a HLL and get blazing efficiency, i'd use Scheme + Stalin < 1236206239 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a number of tests it has outperformed hand-written C, sometimes by a considerable margin. < 1236206242 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236206252 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1236206252 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/407681 < 1236206253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather Ponzi, which would be like stalin without the huge limitations but I haven't written it yet. < 1236206264 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me how that can be improved < 1236206266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comexk: that's not optimized! < 1236206268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use a lookup table < 1236206292 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what would that do < 1236206298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :be fast. < 1236206303 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lookup table of what? < 1236206304 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hashes? < 1236206309 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be slower < 1236206313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236206313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :listen < 1236206321 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION listens < 1236206322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comexk: key them by integers: a machine word can store 4 characters on a 32 bit machine < 1236206324 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably because the Scheme programs are written better than the C-by-hand would be < 1236206331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can actually do that < 1236206336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and compare them natively < 1236206341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with no overhead < 1236206347 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, that's a good idea < 1236206349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme find the article showing how < 1236206364 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot about that -_- < 1236206380 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comexk: the binary if/else if thing is slow in practice because modern processors are really quite bad at jumps compared to everything else < 1236206390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comexk: http://www.stdlib.net/~colmmacc/2009/03/01/optimising-strlen/ < 1236206394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see "Method 4: word-wise checks" < 1236206397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the glibc code it links to < 1236206408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from that, you should be able to make an insanely fast lookup table version < 1236206410 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've sen hellishly complex implementations of, say, memcpy < 1236206442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, on some processors, the best known memcpy implementation in asm is duff's device and copying 4 or 8 bytes at a time < 1236206444 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is pretty complex < 1236206456 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: on ARM I've seen < 1236206462 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first, try to use load multiple instructions to copy like 8 bytes at a time < 1236206465 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then copy words < 1236206466 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then copy bytes < 1236206469 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1236206475 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I had to disassemb le the function and see what it did < 1236206477 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1236206511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yah, lookup table (nest them if you have keys longer than 4 bytes on 32-bit or 8 on 64-bit, ofc) of word-sized chunks of the string < 1236206513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :== insanely fast < 1236206521 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, are you sure that's faster? you'd have to check every combination linearly < 1236206526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, no < 1236206528 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean lookup table < 1236206529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lookup table < 1236206544 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily, all morse code characters fit in 32 bits < 1236206544 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1236206552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comexk: a hash table, but indexed with machine words < 1236206554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not hashes < 1236206557 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though that runs into endian issues < 1236206557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comexk: also, mayhaps operate on java Strings, not char* < 1236206565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to avoid the conversion overhead < 1236206612 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: are you sure a hash table with only 26 entries would be faster than branching? < 1236206627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not hash table < 1236206631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're not running any hash functions < 1236206632 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not hash table < 1236206634 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1236206639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're indexing on *((int *)str) < 1236206644 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that requires memory loads < 1236206650 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing it directly as in the pastie doesn't < 1236206655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comexk: processors are terrible at branching. < 1236206660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, yours accesses memory < 1236206663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s[0], s[1], s[2], ... < 1236206668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least this does one access < 1236206670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yours does tons < 1236206712 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: only as many as necessary, but I meant you would have to access the table from memory < 1236206723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :store it as a constant, static array < 1236206727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it'll go into the object file < 1236206731 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't make it not memory... < 1236206752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comexk: a memory load on a bit of memory that was in cache anyway is really quite fast < 1236206771 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the well-known trick is to store your lookup table in the same bit of memory in the program that's running < 1236206785 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do that by using inline asm for dat commands < 1236206809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what I'm suggesting is your method but slightly more insane, it's a special case of your method < 1236206814 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that and casting bytes to ints limit me to i386 but that's okay I guess < 1236206824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but I'd try mine first < 1236206825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then go to asm < 1236206826 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it makes me nervous, since this is supposed to be portable java < 1236206835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comexk: you failed by doing it in C anyway < 1236206838 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess there could be a pure c fallback < 1236206838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you can be portable. < 1236206841 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: c is portable < 1236206843 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: endian < 1236206844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's not portable about *((int*)s) < 1236206844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, dat commands are relatively portable between architectures < 1236206850 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: endian < 1236206856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comexk: so, in you lookup table do < 1236206864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*((int*)".-.-") < 1236206867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of 3485783457345 < 1236206872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in the literal) < 1236206872 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Abandonando" < 1236206877 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that actually work? < 1236206882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not < 1236206901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comexk: you'll probably have to nest the tables < 1236206907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since there are morse code patterns longer than 4 bytes, right? < 1236206922 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236206926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236206930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then that'll work fine < 1236206932 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I said, it's well suited for that < 1236206935 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although 64-bit processors < 1236206944 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only problem is that < 1236206947 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if you have < 1236206949 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the longest morse code pattern is 5 dots+dashes < 1236206954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: agh < 1236206956 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: really? which one < 1236206956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one off < 1236206960 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comexk: 5 < 1236206968 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :letters only. < 1236206974 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but notice that a dot/dash needn't store an entire byte < 1236206993 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there is a problem with a lookup table < 1236207001 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if your letter is E < 1236207003 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might have < 1236207005 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :". --" < 1236207007 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :". . " < 1236207009 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :". .." < 1236207010 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1236207021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comexk: well, you know the string length ,right? < 1236207024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a java String < 1236207028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so getting the length is O(1) < 1236207035 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but there are multiple letters < 1236207035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, just do < 1236207037 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :separated by spaces < 1236207038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(>>4)<<4 < 1236207043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or w/e < 1236207047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you get 0s instead of the rest < 1236207048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before lookup < 1236207052 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but some patterns are 4 characters < 1236207057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comexk: and? < 1236207069 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so length has nothing to do with it < 1236207071 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to find the space < 1236207081 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm doing that anyway < 1236207082 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so fine < 1236207083 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll do that < 1236207100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236207101 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other thing is < 1236207106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you find the space then there's no reason to do this < 1236207106 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm doing a binary search, aren't I? < 1236207112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's inefficient < 1236207117 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*((char *) is portable but they wouldn't be in order in a different endian < 1236207124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/char/int/ < 1236207127 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird:? < 1236207130 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1236207134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's why you don't put any endian-specific constants in < 1236207138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think you "get" this < 1236207146 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the idea would be to have it pre-sorted < 1236207155 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I don't have to go through the table linearly < 1236207168 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've written efficient morse decoders before < 1236207171 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, let's try it < 1236207184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the trick is to start with 1, and double every character you encounter, adding one if it's a dash not a dot < 1236207184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comexk: ... < 1236207187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no table < 1236207189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just an array < 1236207195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use the total as an index into an array that retrieves your character < 1236207201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you calculate all the values in words for the dotdashes < 1236207206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then modulo them all 26 < 1236207210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and store them in an array, without the key < 1236207214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the value < 1236207223 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what do you mean by "value" here? < 1236207234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the resulting letter < 1236207247 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: hmm? < 1236207252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, static const char foo[] = "ZCBAFU..."; < 1236207257 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my value might be very big, I can't have the _word_ as an index < 1236207270 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, and then I have another array of the words < 1236207282 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523's suggestion might be faster < 1236207284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know what a word is < 1236207284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x_x < 1236207297 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: four bytes, or two bytes sometimes < 1236207303 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or eight sometimes :p < 1236207310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm really starting to doubt you actually understand the algorithm I'm trying to explain < 1236207315 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: < 1236207322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comexk: < 1236207328 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :u32[] keys < 1236207330 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :char[] values < 1236207334 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look up in keys, use the index into values < 1236207340 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that's not it, you're not explaining clearly enough < 1236207341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236207343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck no. < 1236207354 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then be clearer < 1236207357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn, I just wasted like 15 minutes attempting to explain that. have fun < 1236207384 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you know what you're talking about < 1236207401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remind me not to try and help you again < 1236207445 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* < 1236207466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so hey, anyone want help that can understand english & technical terms and doesn't tell me I don't know what i'm talking about when they don't understand? < 1236207477 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: sure < 1236207485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :excellent. how can I help you today. < 1236207530 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Я буду играть на прослушивании в следующий вторник, как мне лучше подготовится? < 1236207535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1236207552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the question was, "are you fat?", no. < 1236207568 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, nice < 1236207641 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1236207690 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1236207808 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-105-125.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236207999 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ais523, what were you saying about inline data? < 1236208011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it depended on my idea. < 1236208014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you've rejected < 1236208020 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, I support your idea < 1236208029 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I merely think you failed to explain it clearly < 1236208032 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the idea's you have an array with the possible translations < 1236208040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a char array, probably < 1236208042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comexk: you know how a hash table works? < 1236208049 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you work out a mathematical value from each dot-dash string < 1236208052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an array, where [hash%size] < 1236208054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the value < 1236208056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, do the same < 1236208059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but with < 1236208060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: this is not exactly a hash table < 1236208064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i know < 1236208066 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely you don't want %26 < 1236208068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm explaining it to him < 1236208071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, yes you do... < 1236208074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't want %anything, in fact, you want a perfect hash < 1236208074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise your array is huge < 1236208077 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no you don't, because you will have duplicates < 1236208079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: 64 bytes? < 1236208079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is perfect < 1236208081 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, I tested and %59 works < 1236208082 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't call that huge < 1236208086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, fine < 1236208088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't what i meant < 1236208100 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comexk: dividing by 59 is rather slow on a modern computer compared to other operations, apart from jumps < 1236208115 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: really? so I would be better off with an evener number? < 1236208116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use >> < 1236208120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :power of 2 < 1236208133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing is < 1236208135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a perfect hash < 1236208136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a hash < 1236208142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the literal char data interpreted as a word < 1236208164 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a hash, per the definition of hash, it's just that it's a hash that doesn't contain a modulo interpretation whereas most do < 1236208168 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: oh, I wasn't doing it like that < 1236208174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's the whole idea < 1236208177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you skip the hashing step < 1236208180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just do *((int*)s) < 1236208185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the whole key to why it's so fast < 1236208188 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was unrolled-looping over each character in the input < 1236208197 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god unrolled < 1236208198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's entirely missing the point < 1236208199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add, shift, add, shift, etc < 1236208204 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is different from your method < 1236208206 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, that's not what I'm doing < 1236208207 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it may be faster < 1236208207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*((int*)s) reduces it to one memory read < 1236208220 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 adds and 4 shifts is 9 memory reads not 1, I agree < 1236208228 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, I think 9 reads are faster than 1 integer divid < 1236208229 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yeah, so I have an int corresponding to four bytes, and unique codes correspond to unique values < 1236208230 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*divide < 1236208233 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: now what < 1236208235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but not >> < 1236208243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, that's the trick < 1236208247 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't do a <<= 1; < 1236208248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so (*((int*)s))>>foo < 1236208249 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do a += a; < 1236208252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a will be in a register < 1236208256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a one-cycle instruction < 1236208265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does that help moduloing it < 1236208273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're trying to fit it into a non-huge table < 1236208274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't modulo, the numbers this way never end up more than 64 < 1236208276 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :problem is, I can't modulo by a power of two because then it'll just depend on the first bytesish < 1236208279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you just have a 64-element table < 1236208286 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is that really faster than one modulo? < 1236208292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, does it use the (int*)s trick? < 1236208296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no < 1236208298 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236208299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should < 1236208306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? that would make the numbers much too large < 1236208311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm relatively certain (75%) it'd be faster < 1236208316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so reduce them < 1236208319 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: < 1236208322 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you preferred, you could use the int* trick then /multiply/ by a large number < 1236208323 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that faster than a single modulo? < 1236208327 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I can use a multiplication trick < 1236208330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah, that'd be best < 1236208330 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that shifted all the bits to the bottom end of the number < 1236208338 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think repeated addition on bits may still be faster < 1236208338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(*(int*)s)<comex translator? < 1236213070 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slows it down < 1236213074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, NUL has nothing to do with it < 1236213074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kthx < 1236213080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine doesn't do anything with NUL < 1236213081 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, because I ought to be going home < 1236213090 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I thought you were using masking to detect where the end-of-string was? < 1236213094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236213095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236213097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was replacing his < 1236213099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strchr(s, ' ') < 1236213100 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236213103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with an efficient method to check for the space < 1236213110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that also saved time just after < 1236213115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comexk: pastie your C < 1236213119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'll put my optimization in < 1236213121 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, your efficient method finds the space, but does it return it in a usable format? < 1236213133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: y oudon't need the space, you just need to know where the space is < 1236213141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: agreed < 1236213145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but your method returns a string with the space in < 1236213149 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than the position of the space < 1236213179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irb(main):012:0> "%08x" % (0x11321111 & 0x00323232) < 1236213179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=> "00321010" < 1236213189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> space is at [1] < 1236213195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: fail < 1236213202 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :space 0x20 = decimal 32 < 1236213207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*forehead* < 1236213210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wonder I couldn't understand what you were doing < 1236213216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irb(main):013:0> "%08x" % (0x11201111 & 0x00202020) < 1236213216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=> "00200000" < 1236213219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :space is at [1] < 1236213223 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1236213226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1236213229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I thought you were doing < 1236213239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the problem is, how do you convert the string "00200000" into a usable form < 1236213240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the masking? < 1236213243 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if(!(a & 0x03000000)) s2 = s; < 1236213243 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : else if(!(a & 0x030000)) s2 = s + 1; < 1236213243 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : else if(!(a & 0x0300)) s2 = s + 2; < 1236213243 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : else if(!(a & 0x3)) s2 = s + 3; < 1236213244 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : else s2 = s + 4; < 1236213246 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that slows it down a lot :( < 1236213248 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't know why < 1236213251 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :over memory accesses < 1236213252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comexk: you do ONE & < 1236213254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 4 < 1236213255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comexk: it would do, you have ifs in there, you even have elses < 1236213256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1236213260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there can't be a space at position 0 < 1236213270 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately there can < 1236213281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :balls. < 1236213287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay then, and by 0x20202020 < 1236213288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: // is the traditional way to send a space character in Morse < 1236213289 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the alternative being strchr which contains all those things < 1236213294 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. a zero-length string < 1236213294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236213295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not strchr < 1236213300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you only need to do one memory read < 1236213304 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: 0x20202020 will ALWAYS and < 1236213305 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1236213307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236213308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no shit < 1236213310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you use the result from the and < 1236213312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just checking it < 1236213319 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what do you /do/ with the result from the and? < 1236213322 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it won't magically fix your string < 1236213323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: err, the obvious? < 1236213326 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is? < 1236213326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shows you where the space is < 1236213332 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know it shows you where the space is < 1236213334 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird < 1236213335 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :problem is < 1236213336 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't < 1236213338 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how do you change it into the masking of the string you need? < 1236213339 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this isn't 0x11 < 1236213343 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this might be < 1236213343 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x2d < 1236213346 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x2e < 1236213348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err so < 1236213350 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0x2f < 1236213352 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all of which & 0x20 < 1236213358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... no shit < 1236213388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, how come these strings are space-separated all of a sudden, Morse is normally separated with / < 1236213394 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is your teacher using an unusual encoding? < 1236213449 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what I mean is, even if your method does determine the location of the space (and it can do that, and against 0x0c rather than 0x20 because that's contained by dash and dot but not space) < 1236213455 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once you have the location, what do you do with it? < 1236213462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: comex's code < 1236213464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just uses the location < 1236213473 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: comex's code requires the location to be encoded as 0, 1, 2, 3, 4 < 1236213478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your code doesn't encode the location like that < 1236213480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so change it to that < 1236213489 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err... comex's code uses a multiplication < 1236213508 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words, you need to convert your found-space into the position of the space so you can multiply by it < 1236213676 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236214021 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236214043 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I still don't understand why REMOVING A BRANCH THAT ALWAYS GOES ONE WAY < 1236214044 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speeds it up < 1236214049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :branch prediction < 1236214054 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, I mean slows it down < 1236214066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :branch prediction < 1236214075 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :__builtin_expect(it, 1) slows it down < 1236214079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :branch prediction < 1236214098 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: why is it faster to predict the wrong thing < 1236214103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :butts < 1236214123 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's not < 1236214131 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fastest without any prediction < 1236214139 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this shouldn't matter. < 1236214155 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, ehird: give me your code :p < 1236214163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what code < 1236214169 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :code to give me a position :p < 1236214178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| i just gave an algo < 1236214179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not code < 1236214215 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how will anding with 20202020 help anything < 1236214221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :butts < 1236214225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tiredlazy < 1236214509 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy shit this sped it up < 1236214514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut < 1236215040 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@cpc3-stkn2-0-0-cust528.midd.cable.ntl.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1236215076 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1236215083 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think it's very easy to get access to jstring < 1236215105 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try a memory dump < 1236215219 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, GetStringUTFChars returns a const char < 1236215224 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's probably giving me an existing pointer < 1236215300 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I give up < 1236215303 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I make this faster < 1236215315 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just go to sleep < 1236216061 0 :Asztal^_^!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236217128 0 :Asztal^_^!n=asztal@cpc2-stkn13-2-0-cust73.11-2.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1236218025 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236220437 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1236226724 0 :ab5tract!n=ab5tract@pool-98-111-165-233.phlapa.fios.verizon.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236230766 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to hear a lounge version of O Fortuna. < 1236231867 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236231888 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@a91-153-121-248.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1236232305 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, that could really work < 1236232474 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're singing it in your head now, aren't you? :) < 1236232477 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it would be good. < 1236232479 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a weird way < 1236232501 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236232596 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not really singing in my head, i'm preparing the looper and the guitar and the bass to try to record the verse at least < 1236235533 0 :Robdgreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION would love to hear that when it's done < 1236236229 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with or without my crappy singing? < 1236237517 0 :Robdgreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with should work < 1236237540 0 :Robdgreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ultimately it's your call < 1236237920 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one sec < 1236238115 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crap, all audio is in one channel, how do i fix this < 1236238223 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok got it < 1236238282 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jeez hurry up < 1236238388 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://filebin.ca/qyxpp/ofortuna.mp3 < 1236238550 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf was that < 1236238606 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will appreciate more constructive feedback. < 1236238889 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pokes GregorR  < 1236239134 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236239999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1236240000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1236240447 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: reminds me of 'Piggy' by NiN on Further Down The Spiral < 1236241835 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Client Excited" < 1236242192 0 :tombom!i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1236243044 0 :ab5tract!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1236244024 0 :impomatic!n=John@nat67.mia.three.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1236244327 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"mov.i #1,1" < 1236244464 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1236244498 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-105-125.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236244601 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1236245230 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.121 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236246121 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-43-11.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236246865 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236247154 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236247295 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.121 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236247653 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236247656 0 :ais523_!n=ais523@147.188.254.121 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236247879 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1236248144 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523 < 1236249089 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236249143 0 :comex!n=comex@teklinks.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1236249170 0 :ais523_!n=ais523@147.188.254.121 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236249289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1236249291 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523 < 1236249382 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236249391 0 :lifthrasiir!n=lifthras@143.248.133.205 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236249637 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1236249907 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236249931 0 :lifthrasiir!n=lifthras@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236254092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236260285 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1236261255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :http://➡.ws/Ⱒ < 1236261263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Logs: http://➡.ws/Ⱒ < 1236261274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there, we have the spidery ha in the log link now < 1236261285 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :golfing the topic can be fun... < 1236261331 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How is it golfed? < 1236261366 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it contains the same information as before < 1236261368 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is shorter < 1236261386 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it? < 1236261394 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, it contains the link to the logs < 1236261404 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a glagolitic capital letter spidery ha < 1236261416 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In short URL form and using ASCII->Unicode? < 1236261434 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in short URL form < 1236261436 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a unicode URL < 1236261476 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though you can't actually click it or kopipeit < 1236261487 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure you can. I just did. < 1236261491 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's the fault of your client < 1236261497 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox? < 1236261501 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it is Firefox2. < 1236261531 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm surprised that the glagolitic capital letter spidery ha was free-for-taking at ➡.ws. Would have thought someone had already used it. < 1236261537 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mIRC ... though I get to the wrong place < 1236261611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err, I only see an arrow < 1236261611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://xn--hgi.ws/Ⱒ is what the URL should be translated to for non-Unicode-aware systems < 1236261613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1236261617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is how it looks < 1236261619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the url < 1236261620 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's a Unicode arrow < 1236261628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what is the spidery thing? < 1236261631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see it < 1236261632 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get http://xn--7a3kss.ws < 1236261637 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a glagolitic capital letter spidery ha < 1236261646 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spidery HA is after the /, in the path part. < 1236261646 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same here < 1236261658 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get on that website and it does not redirect me at all < 1236261659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is it a "glagolitic capital letter spidery ha" or an unicode arrow < 1236261660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :decide < 1236261661 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously there's a character encoding fail somewhere < 1236261664 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: There's both. < 1236261671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no there ins't < 1236261673 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's [arrow].ws/[spidery ha]. < 1236261676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236261676 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the URL is http:// unicode arrow .ws/ glagolitic capital letter spidery ha < 1236261685 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spidery spidery < 1236261687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks like [2C22] here < 1236261689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236261698 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same here, I don't have a spidery ha in my font < 1236261713 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, me neither. But I trust it's the ha if ais523 says so. < 1236261729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the interest in that char? < 1236261734 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it comes out in mojibake on the clog logs < 1236261758 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is that 7a3kss is the encoding of the mojibake, whereas hgi is the encoding of the correct unicode character < 1236261759 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoops, I need to be elsewhere already. -> < 1236261831 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. If I copy it to chrome I get xn--hgi, but if I double-click it, I get xn--7a3kss < 1236262059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, fast integer square root in C... anyone knows anything good? < 1236262071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the newton algorithm is pretty fast < 1236262080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googles < 1236262091 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, start with 2 < 1236262102 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, x=2 < 1236262111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iterative? < 1236262113 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then change x to ((n/x)+x)/2 < 1236262115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, iterative < 1236262155 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.beyond3d.com/content/articles/8/ < 1236262190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is float < 1236262199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the target system doesn't have floating point hardware < 1236262202 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236262202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :embedded target < 1236262225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure there's an integer arithmetic version < 1236262315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION finds a pdf from microchip named "fast integer square root" < 1236262372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay one avoiding slow division too < 1236262383 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/codesearch/p?hl=en#dl-KOTbXso4/libcs/isqrt.c&l=22 < 1236262404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libcs? < 1236262433 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, microchip < 1236262465 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's one with only a for-loop: http://www.google.com/codesearch/p?hl=en#G1Uvi1prmwc/kernel2_4/drivers/media/video/omap/v4l2.c&l=189 < 1236262467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well my target isn't a microchip, but it is is still interesting < 1236262478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't use the same asm, but the general idea should work I think < 1236262485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to experiment < 1236262565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX, that seems to work on the same model basically. < 1236262580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same idea. slightly different implementations < 1236263136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I don't know for certain that's a spidery ha, I just copied it from the old topic < 1236263221 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Character 0x2C22 ... I don't have any font that supports it. :) < 1236263302 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> unicodedata.name(u'\u2C22') < 1236263302 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'GLAGOLITIC CAPITAL LETTER SPIDERY HA' < 1236263510 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1236263626 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too bad http://➡.ws/λ is already taken (and doesn't point to anything haskell) < 1236264973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: that domain is still stupid < 1236264975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as discussed before < 1236265058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Ⱒ GLAGOLITIC CAPITAL LETTER SPIDERY HA | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236265078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:33 comex: too bad http://➡.ws/λ is already taken (and doesn't point to anything haskell) < 1236265080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it do < 1236265080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :es < 1236265094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :johnnowak does Haskell and concatenative langs like factor < 1236265095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236265112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is wrong with ➡.ws ? < 1236265116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like it, so did ais523 < 1236265120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does I guess < 1236265131 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's a bad idea for general use < 1236265134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole purpose is to subvert the twitter length limit, but it counts in bytes, not characters < 1236265138 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but very funny for a #esoteric topic < 1236265143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the makers are complete idiots < 1236265147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who buy domains and advertise them without thinking < 1236265156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err what? < 1236265167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, a tiny url is mainly useful apart from twitter to write down < 1236265167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what has twitter got to do with it < 1236265177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh shut the heck up < 1236265188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what? < 1236265205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm tired of being expected to explain 5 billion things to you every time I say something < 1236265217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is nothing about twitter on http://➡.ws < 1236265228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you aren't making any sense < 1236265229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1236265251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1236265282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: there is something about twitter on http://➡.ws, but only on the results page after you've worsened a URL < 1236265313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, besides, the other purpose is to write it down or tell people irl. < 1236265316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck typing those urls < 1236265331 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you're missing the point < 1236265334 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is to make a funny topic < 1236265341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never said the topic wasn't funny < 1236265351 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :URL redirection services can be used to make a point, just as much as they can be used to shorten things < 1236265352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just saw comex's message at the start of my quicklog < 1236265353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and replied to it < 1236265357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before seeing the context < 1236265412 0 :Hiato!n=1@dsl-245-24-250.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1236265888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I just realised that the creators were quite young when they made INTERCAL < 1236265900 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1236265903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was expecting them to be bearded like they are now, I guess that explains why INTERCAL _isn't_ popular < 1236265906 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose they must have been, as they're still in work now < 1236265918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just finished freshman year final exams, sez don woods < 1236265919 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that explains why INTERCAL wasn't popular back in 1972 but has become more popular since < 1236265921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://www.computerworld.com.au/article/251892/-z_programming_languages_intercal) < 1236265974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, if I have my american educational system right, < 1236265980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :late teens/early 20s? < 1236266069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.diku.dk/hjemmesider/ansatte/jespera/doc.html oh god the comic sans it burns < 1236266345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, do jumps -really- cost 60 cycles? < 1236266352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just painful... < 1236266358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it depends on which way they go < 1236266374 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, branch prediction is the processor predicting in advance which way the jump will go < 1236266384 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it guesses wrong, you have to flush the pipeline and that takes ages < 1236266394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how often does it get it right? < 1236266400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite a lot, nowadays < 1236266406 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if jumps mostly go the same way < 1236266411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and even more with profile-guided optimisation < 1236266417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it depends on how long the pipeline is < 1236266419 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one of the main purposes of that optimisation < 1236266429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, on a pentium 4 a mispredicted branch is *very* expensive < 1236266437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did the RISC-y sort of processors do jumps better? < 1236266439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it had such a long pipeline < 1236266472 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's nothing but pipeline length and prediction quality that affects the jump < 1236266473 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah riscs do better < 1236266481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i'll trust you <3 < 1236266484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, on a PIC microcontroller, the pipeline has length 2 so jumps only take 2 cycles < 1236266485 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they generally have shorter pipelines < 1236266487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there are some CPUs with "delayed branch" stuff, basically they continue executing n instructions after the branch instruction even when jumping (iirc n was/is usually 1 or 2) < 1236266496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as oklopol says, you can likely get away with a shorter pipeline on a RISC < 1236266502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1236266528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:21 AnMaster: ehird, there are some CPUs with "delayed branch" stuff, basically they continue executing n instructions after the branch instruction even when jumping (iirc n was/is usually 1 or 2) < 1236266532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds rather dangerous for IO :D < 1236266536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, delayed branches are another interesting way to solve it. It potentially reduces the issues to zero if you can reorder < 1236266536 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: delayed branch is just telling the compiler to use software to sort out what most processers do in hardware < 1236266542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*processors < 1236266548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236266551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1236266555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably not as well < 1236266556 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it gives the same result as the hardware version would do < 1236266565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since hardware tends to be faster... < 1236266579 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it slows down the compilation but not the execution < 1236266584 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's not nearly as dangerous for io as it is for exceptions < 1236266591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1236266610 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all kindsa data hazards < 1236266618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, there are lots of subtleties, it's really easy to screw up < 1236266627 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why would you start talking about something i'm actually interested in right when i'm about to leave < 1236266628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think VLIW and delayed branch slots are both great ideas. < 1236266634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: sry I will talk mor ewhen you return. < 1236266636 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn you all to germany! < 1236266637 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1236266644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1236266648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm rather upset jumps are so slow < 1236266654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't like my cpu :< < 1236266657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not if they are correctly predicted < 1236266667 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's more that non-jumps can be sped up more easily then jumps < 1236266678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway, Intel Core is *fast* at mispredicted jumps compared to Pentium 4 < 1236266690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and AnMaster's right, a correctly predicted jump hardly costs anything, usually 1 or 2 cycles < 1236266695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i bet a functional-tuned cpu for lisp would get it right because it'd be more structured than 'jmp' :< < 1236266702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some specific work loads a Pentium 4 is *worse* than a *slower* Pentium 3 < 1236266713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to the high cost for stuff like branch misprediction < 1236266719 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately, you can't also predict jumps correctly, if you could it would defeat the point of having if statements in the first place < 1236266729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes indeed < 1236266729 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an unconditional goto, by the way, is fast because it's always trivial to predict < 1236266751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we just need to tie a crystal ball to our cpus < 1236266758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfect branch prediction & halting problem solved to boot < 1236266770 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some processors, like the PIC, are primitive enough that they don't even try to predict unconditional jumps < 1236266773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so waste cycles when jumping < 1236266783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, a crystal ball is slow. You need L1/L2 cache for the crystal ball lookups < 1236266789 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but on modern hardware, you don't need to worry about it < 1236266791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would defeat the point < 1236266797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ok then, the beating heart of a dead wise oracle < 1236266802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much more efficient < 1236266808 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, crystal is made from silicon < 1236266813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dead & wise, not "dead wise" as in slang that is < 1236266817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, however delayed branch slots does solve the issue if you can reorder some. Sure there are cases where you can't, and have to put in NOP < 1236266820 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'd suggest embedding the processor inside the crystal ball < 1236266821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oracles's hearts are made from silicon too < 1236266841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: delayed branch slots are great, I agree < 1236266846 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was planning to implement them in INTERCAL < 1236266853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah! < 1236266861 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is obviously ridiculous as INTERCAL's far too high a level to gain any benefit < 1236266867 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think they could be useful for debugging purposes < 1236266872 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236266882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway if you had a delay of 40 like ehird talked about then delayed branch slots would be bloody annoying < 1236266884 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERCAL is low level, but delayed branch slots are slightly lower level than asm < 1236266896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ais523 claimed comex's branch was taking ~60 cycles < 1236266896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only works great with a delay of 1-2 < 1236266899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is crazy as fuck < 1236266904 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, but I'm sure you can find something else to do for 40 cycles < 1236266913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok 60 then < 1236266913 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or however many it is < 1236266918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it varies depending on CPU < 1236266944 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... pentium 4 has a pipeline length of 31, according to Wikipedia < 1236266986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm what about mispredicted branch + IL1 miss ? < 1236266990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be very slow < 1236266994 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, nasty < 1236266997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly also L2 miss < 1236267006 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex's code didn't have much chance of an L1 miss, though, it was hardly using any memory < 1236267009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you would hit a few hundred cycles right? < 1236267026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well DL1 and IL1 are luckily separate.. < 1236267038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, just to put it into context, < 1236267060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how long do 100 cycles take on this 2.1ghz intel core 2 duo, on average? :P < 1236267061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, where is the code comex wrote? < 1236267076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://pastie.org/407770 < 1236267077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far < 1236267079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're still improving it < 1236267084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a morse code decoder < 1236267088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're trying to eliminate the strchr atm < 1236267089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1236267098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: his prof told him to optimize some java code < 1236267105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he's writing it in C and linking it with Java Native Interface < 1236267115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using tricks like < 1236267117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int a = *((int *) s); < 1236267124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to read 4 characters (the max morse cod ehe's processing) in one go < 1236267125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1236267133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that mean 'I don't see'? < 1236267143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in this case < 1236267158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still don't see what the algorithm is though... < 1236267165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just morse code decoding < 1236267170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: stuff[] is a perfect hash table < 1236267175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236267182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that explains a lot < 1236267185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the mask removes stuff after the space, essentially < 1236267195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but since the space can be determined just from the 'a' there < 1236267200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're trying to figure out how to do it the quickest way < 1236267203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the space for? < 1236267206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(since strchr will do the 4 accesses and branch on each one) < 1236267208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: separate the codes < 1236267212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1236267214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..-.- ...- .-... < 1236267215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stuff < 1236267218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1236267242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he has two branches there, and up to 5 hidden in strchr < 1236267249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236267249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we're trying to reduce those, and fold them into each other < 1236267250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 15:30 ehird: how long do 100 cycles take on this 2.1ghz intel core 2 duo, on average? :P < 1236267266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how long did you say max length was < 1236267268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is actually surprisingly like writing INTERCAL < 1236267278 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-15-51.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236267279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and do you need to fail in a good way on bad input? < 1236267281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 4 characters, so that's why we use an int < 1236267284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, he doesn't < 1236267287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236267291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, whatever you say we've probably tried :P < 1236267292 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 100 cycles at 2.1 GHz is 100/2.1 ns which is just under 50 nanoseconds < 1236267298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it may be possible to use SIMD then < 1236267300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*may* < 1236267318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Oh. < 1236267324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on alignment though < 1236267326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, that's not so bad then. < 1236267330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so probably not a good idea < 1236267342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: we need the actual code to be portable < 1236267344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, depends on how much data you need to process < 1236267345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since java is portable < 1236267350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrrm ok < 1236267354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc, he's going to get marked badly for, y'know, not using java but there you go < 1236267359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, then it isn't. It assumes int == 32 bits < 1236267359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: also, he's testing it on 6mb strings < 1236267365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, yes < 1236267370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's universally true on modern systems. < 1236267384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a system in which it isn't probably doesn't run java < 1236267389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc there are systems with int == 64 bits < 1236267410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't remember which system < 1236267419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only a vague memory of reading those existed < 1236267437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably some HPC stuff < 1236267439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your personal anecdotes aren't too useful :D < 1236267452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, was it supposed to be? < 1236267456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1236267467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway there is int32_t in C99 < 1236267494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw how did you calculate the perfect hash? < 1236267501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or how did comex rather I guess < 1236267504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure, ais523 did that < 1236267509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1236267512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how ais523? < 1236267513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I told comex about the *((int*)s) trick though < 1236267520 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me read backlog < 1236267530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: his original code was ridiculously bad, take a look: http://pastie.org/407681 < 1236267530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, that could be slow. If it isn't aligned < 1236267544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was comex who did the perfect hash, not me < 1236267560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 1) some systems will SIGBUS on non-aligned int. IIRC Alpha for example. Not sure about MIPS, ARM, PPC and such < 1236267566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody actually cares < 1236267570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) even on x86, reading non-aligned int is slower < 1236267572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has to work on most systems, < 1236267574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and be fast on x86 < 1236267576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure how much slower < 1236267578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes slower < 1236267586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his code takes something like 300ms on a 6 megabyte string now, iirc, and that _includes_ the overhead of the Java bridge and the like < 1236267592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86 can certainly manage misaligned accesses < 1236267605 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, does his code work? < 1236267607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes it can. But it is still slower than aligned access < 1236267617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: he broke it recently IIRC < 1236267621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the last working version :P < 1236267631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but < 1236267633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's faster than < 1236267637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s[0], s[1], s[2], s[3]. < 1236267645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1236267659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the strchr does that anyway < 1236267663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus why we're trying to eliminate it < 1236267665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least i am < 1236267678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that strchr. I think you could do that faster with testing against a bitmask or something. < 1236267684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236267688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was what I was suggesting < 1236267690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bitmasking a < 1236267694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I couldn't figure out what the right bitmask was < 1236267697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what to do with the result < 1236267715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, take a look at strlen in glibc. It is pretty insane. That is the generic C version. Each CPU also has an even crazier asm implementation < 1236267724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's where I got the int * trick from < 1236267728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :via http://www.stdlib.net/~colmmacc/2009/03/01/optimising-strlen/ < 1236267734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah you have seen the bitmasking in glibc then? < 1236267746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc, strlen() is pointless since you should use length-tagged strings. < 1236267755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236267765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I could do anything to glibc, I'd add a 1 second wait for every strlen call :P < 1236267769 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the principle of searching for a NUL is still useful, though < 1236267777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and modify gcc to never, ever optimize out a strlen < 1236267781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: strchr(s,0) < 1236267784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you _must_ :P < 1236267794 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I was thinking of strchr in general < 1236267799 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although notice that strchr stops on NUL < 1236267805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some things are faster for NUL-termination < 1236267821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but in general strings should be length-tagged < 1236267826 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally, I think one of the better methods for storing strings is to both length-prefix and nul-terminate < 1236267829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just about every HLL does that, and their string handling is great < 1236267838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that can work < 1236267978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you can do length tagged strings in C < 1236267990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1236267993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but its a pain < 1236267997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because libraries don't like it < 1236268001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are at least two libraries with macros for it < 1236268001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can';t use the stdlib < 1236268004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that I know of < 1236268008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably a lot more exists < 1236268019 0 :impomatic!n=John@nat66.mia.three.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1236268022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C, using non-null-terminated strings is pretty painful < 1236268032 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi :-) < 1236268032 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're doing both length tag and nul-terminate, then you can use most of the read-only stdlib functions < 1236268035 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1236268035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, just consider it a generic byte buffer < 1236268042 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, memchr = strchr for length-prefixed strings < 1236268049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes indeed < 1236268057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there exists quite a few mem* functions < 1236268058 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and likewise with the other mem* functions < 1236268063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that are *FASTER* than str* ones < 1236268071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they don't need to check for end all the time < 1236268077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1236268081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex switches to using memchr < 1236268083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was slower < 1236268085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :memcpy() is faster than strcpy() for example < 1236268089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that's strange < 1236268090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the \0 checking helped branch prediction :P < 1236268099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1236268103 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, most CISC processors can do branch prediction perfectly for for loops < 1236268112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but most processors aren't CISC nowadays < 1236268112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, interesting < 1236268125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're RISC-core, disguised as CISC using microcode < 1236268137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but can they still branch predict? < 1236268157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :branch predict perfectly I mean < 1236268163 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I've worked with a DSP before < 1236268170 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that branch-predicted for-loops perfectly < 1236268174 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as you didn't change the control variable < 1236268193 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not only that, but it didn't even spend any cycles on the decrement-and-test such loops normally have < 1236268223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, at least some x86 use microcode. I'm pretty sure AMD64 does for some instructions. I have a pdf somewhere around here documenting type of execution, with those in microcode marked "VectorPath", other ones marked "DirectPath" < 1236268224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1236268233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION searches his desktop < 1236268242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah there it is < 1236268263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think all modern x86-compatibles use microcode < 1236268271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed. Instruction latencies for the AMD64 ISA (k8 family) < 1236268277 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DSPs are weird, though, they have some very specific CISC instructions < 1236268315 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1236268332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, even with microcode x86 is pretty CISC in the core. Just consider all the core SIMD instructions for example < 1236268348 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are those non-microcode/ < 1236268350 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised < 1236268359 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and suddenly realise why ARM uses so much less power < 1236268366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like computers < 1236268370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't work very well < 1236268371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1236268395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From "Legend for table C.1": Decode type Shows the method that the processor uses to decode the instruction—either DirectPath Single (DirectPath), DirectPath Double (Double), or VectorPath. < 1236268411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was clarified elsewhere in the pdf < 1236268447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1236268462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/nVH4iJ51.html < 1236268554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahem < 1236268557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't use rafb.net < 1236268578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for people reading this sometime after tomorrow: http://pastie.org/408374 < 1236268582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is the one that loads fastest here. pastebin.ca take a lot of time to load. Same for all the others < 1236268590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pastie.org is always quick for me < 1236268595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not for me < 1236268607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rafb takes maybe 1 second to load. pastie.org around 5 < 1236268614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236268628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess there is much more design on pastie.org < 1236268635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rafb has a very minimalistic design < 1236268639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your browser will cache the css. < 1236268656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I'm tempted to just say tha ta few more seconds now beats expiry in the future, but I'll look for something faster < 1236268672 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that CSS expires, think of the logreaders! < 1236268682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol wut < 1236268696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236268709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://paste.lisp.org/? < 1236268713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about as minimalist as rafb < 1236268718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irritating captcha though < 1236268722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1236268725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it always says lisp < 1236268727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1236268727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can easily script that < 1236268741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, really? greasemonkey tends to slow down stuff < 1236268753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't really need greasemonkey for that < 1236268757 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best captcha ever < 1236268773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: well, you have to target it specifically < 1236268777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I use paste.lisp.org when I want to highlight erlang < 1236268778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most spambots just generically spam everything < 1236268780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it'd trip them up < 1236268815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it does load quite fast. But rafb does load even faster < 1236268822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 second vs. 3 or such < 1236268831 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it takes more than 50 nanoseconds, it's too slow! < 1236268836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://pastey.net/? < 1236268843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loads very fast for me, and has ids going back to 2006 (I just checked) < 1236268860 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest you use paste.eso-std.org < 1236268865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes! < 1236268879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm 2 seconds < 1236268882 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still parked < 1236268886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will give you vaginal herpes on your iso standards. or at least, that's what it claims. < 1236268887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err didn't eso-std expire? < 1236268891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so? < 1236268895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can still use it! < 1236268905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the pastes are gone. < 1236268913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the urls no longer valid < 1236268917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THINK OF THE LOGREADERS! < 1236268919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://expired.revenuedirect.com/park.php?domain_name=&site_id=20788 < 1236268925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then give us that link < 1236268926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never let your pastebin expire < 1236268935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, nobody actually used it < 1236268939 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did < 1236268940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you did iirc < 1236268943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ais523 did < 1236268945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: okay, like thric < 1236268947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1236268950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :until anmaster told you not to < 1236268955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used it more than ehird, I think < 1236268963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, fixing that download bug might have helped < 1236268970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and THINK OF THE LOGREADERS!! < 1236268971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a bug < 1236268972 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that wasn't a bug, that was correct < 1236268982 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing things which are unusual but correct is very eso < 1236268993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, Microsoft have come up with their own way of doing that < 1236268998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1236269003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i linked to that article yesterday < 1236269004 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they wrote a standard, made it an RFC, and are now complying with it < 1236269013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, um really? < 1236269016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :details? < 1236269037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://drplokta.livejournal.com/109267.html < 1236269055 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I was going to ask ehird if he had the link, I couldn't find it < 1236269064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, http://pastey.net/ thinks Erlang means Ericsson Language. It actually doesn't < 1236269077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a reference to a person named Erlang < 1236269080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it does and it doesn't < 1236269081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's both < 1236269084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same as Haskell is named after someone < 1236269088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they named it because of both connotations < 1236269093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though only one is official < 1236269105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Keep my history for at least [99999999] days" —Firefox < 1236269107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, true. But according to one of the original developers it was primarily due to the person < 1236269109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should become the U.S. archivist. < 1236269146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~273972 years? < 1236269151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1236269156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes that was using 365 and integer division < 1236269157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't intend to be using Firefox by that t ime. < 1236269160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so probably off by a bit < 1236269205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, personally I have it set to one week < 1236269211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like to keep history around < 1236269212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: DATA LOSS AAAAAAAAAGH < 1236269214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO NO NO NO NO NO NO < 1236269217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU MUST PRESERVE ;_; < 1236269223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, No. I'm paranoid < 1236269227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the reason < 1236269232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So encrypt it :P < 1236269234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I do < 1236269240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home is encrypted < 1236269252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a huge obsessive aversion to deleting anything. < 1236269262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably because of my logreading tendencies < 1236269268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I have a huge obession with having more than 3 GB free space on my disk < 1236269271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have backups of course < 1236269278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on tape < 1236269279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, just transfer old stuff to a backup drive. < 1236269282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lol, tap.e < 1236269283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*tape < 1236269289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Want to survive a nuclear attack? < 1236269289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it lasts. < 1236269297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disks last pretty well y'know < 1236269307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ever had a disk fail? < 1236269311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has < 1236269313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1236269321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Backup your backups. < 1236269325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To Xzibit's body. < 1236269331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1236269339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xzibit is the origin of the yo dawg meme. < 1236269346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Ⱒ GLAGOLITIC CAPITAL LETTEmhmR SPIDERY HA | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236269349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236269352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth < 1236269352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LETTEmhmR < 1236269355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leave it like that :D < 1236269362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I also don't keep backups. Yet.) < 1236269363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my kb2OPJħßj strs < 1236269369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: indeed, it does str. < 1236269373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah better... < 1236269377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keyboard went strange < 1236269379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea why < 1236269390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Ⱒ GLAGOLITIC CAPITAL LETTER SPIDERY HA | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236269390 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice topic < 1236269394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixed it < 1236269396 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1236269397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Ⱒ GLAGOLITIC CAPITAL LETTEmhmR SPIDERY HA | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236269399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fixed it. < 1236269400 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::> < 1236269404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236269425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway. Where was I < 1236269428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1236269434 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: sometimes I fly around in a spaceship? < 1236269441 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, you do? < 1236269448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a reference to eso-std.org < 1236269452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was only ever placeholder text < 1236269454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: now _that's_ obscure < 1236269456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, no < 1236269459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. < 1236269460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sometimes I fly around in a spaceship :>" < 1236269461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in variou forms. < 1236269464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, backups on tape may not survive a nuclear attack < 1236269468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it had infrastructure set up/ < 1236269469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor do I think anything I have will < 1236269471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was just never used :P < 1236269479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: will you survive a nuclear attack? < 1236269483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just keep a backup in your pocket < 1236269489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I live in a house based on the log technology < 1236269490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :backup yourself in your pocket < 1236269491 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way, if you survive the attack probably so will the backup < 1236269496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INFINITE BACKUPS. < 1236269499 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, I recognized it < 1236269501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can never die. < 1236269502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever. < 1236269506 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: wow < 1236269519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it would take infinite time to destroy all the copies of yourself < 1236269520 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was pretty obscure... < 1236269527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that would require fitting 500 GB in my pocket < 1236269528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how < 1236269540 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flash memory's getting better all the time < 1236269546 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MicroSDs are small < 1236269548 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an 8 GB memory stick in my pocket at the moment < 1236269550 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on the size of your pocket < 1236269552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and wear out quickly with daily backups < 1236269559 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are 32 gig SDHCs IIRC < 1236269559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1236269561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, my pocket-backup isn't daily < 1236269565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its for a nuclear attack AnMaster < 1236269568 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's mental-incremental < 1236269569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :currently I have incremental daily backups < 1236269571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure you could lose a month < 1236269582 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, I back something up if I think it needs backing up and I remember it changes < 1236269586 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be happy to live < 1236269597 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every now and then I'll tarball all the backup-requiring bits of my home dir and store that on the USB stick < 1236269598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: pfft, you and your logic < 1236269607 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes his logic < 1236269609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my disaster plan: grab backup drive, run. < 1236269614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway I keep them in a safe. That is metal. That should at least reduce EMP *a bit* < 1236269620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do not perform step 2 until step 1 is complete. < 1236269631 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, radioactivity has a much larger effect on fibre optic cables than both other electronic stuff and humans < 1236269632 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My disaster plan: null < 1236269632 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1236269635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: okay, listen, if there's an EMP attack < 1236269639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're fucked anyway < 1236269640 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't do backups, but I should < 1236269643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes < 1236269648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, as in, death imminent :P < 1236269649 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too < 1236269652 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: definitely, most people only learn that lesson until they've already lost one set < 1236269660 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I havn't been there < 1236269661 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: surely it depends on how near the EMP attack is? < 1236269668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how strong < 1236269668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I've lost data before, but it wasn't vital < 1236269676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Just some music, the drive partially made some files vanish) < 1236269690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did the drive manage that? < 1236269690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: considering it would wipe out infrastructure... < 1236269694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, dunno < 1236269696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was in my old computer < 1236269698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very dusty < 1236269698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CD ROM should be a pretty good backup < 1236269699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bashed around a lot < 1236269702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dropped a few times < 1236269704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sufficiently old I've lost data due to bad sectors on floppy disks < 1236269705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never maintained < 1236269706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1236269709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't mean CD-R. But CD-ROM < 1236269714 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite a difference < 1236269725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not really < 1236269727 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second computer I used didn't have a sufficiently large hard drive to store the things I did, so I stored everything on floppies instead < 1236269728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I have too < 1236269730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can snap a disk trivially < 1236269740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've done it in seconds < 1236269745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well assuming it is stored in a dry protected place < 1236269748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :disk splinters everywhere :| < 1236269752 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION backs up to memory sticks < 1236269755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was kind of stupid and tired. < 1236269757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I mean, EMP wouldn't be much of an issue < 1236269761 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's relatively hard to snap them accidentally, it's easy but not easy to do accidentally < 1236269769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1236269776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my hands stung a bit after snapping that disc :D < 1236269778 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: anyway, I had to spend ages cleaning up after your quit message last time < 1236269787 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not really evolving as fast as the technology does. I'm fine with my 512 MB Mp3 player, I don't need no more < 1236269787 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was threatening to overwrite the logs < 1236269789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1236269795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what was that quit message? < 1236269802 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a redcode quine < 1236269808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1236269809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that ran itself immediately after printing < 1236269816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :known as an "imp" < 1236269818 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What quit message? < 1236269820 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus presumably impomatic's username < 1236269833 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha :-) < 1236269847 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not sure I knew enough offhand redcode to write an imp-gate to stop it < 1236269859 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot about that. Cool that the logging software runs redcode < 1236269872 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jmp #0, <-5 should stop it next time < 1236269873 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it does < 1236269879 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-098-197.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1236269882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: clog rebooted yesterday or the day before < 1236269887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the mysterious nef was online < 1236269891 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was yesterday, yeah < 1236269895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the first time since 2000 < 1236269897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC < 1236269900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 2004 or something < 1236269900 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm trying to be sure < 1236269902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ages ago, anyway < 1236269910 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you never know when the logging software might suddenly become Turing-complete < 1236269920 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a proper redcode Quine actually, 170 instructions. I just need to recompile the MARS to run programs longer than 100 lines :-) < 1236269933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clog is pretty good, it's pretty stable < 1236269935 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that needs a recompile? I thought the limit was just there to stop people cheating < 1236269937 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who's nef? < 1236269942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: see log link < 1236269942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: the person who keeps the logs < 1236269947 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from that, we don't know anything about them < 1236269955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea why they're logging the channel, for instance < 1236269958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: apparently the tunes.org server admin administers it now < 1236269962 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see :-) < 1236269965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, lament or someone asked < 1236269983 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, we don't know _why_ they're here, logging our channel? ;o < 1236270006 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've finished Redcode Forth. It's currently doing well on the programming reddit. There's also an article on there about OISC. < 1236270049 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I read proggit from time to time but somehow I missed that < 1236270071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : This is completely pointless and has no real world application. I love it! < 1236270078 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well it's handy to have logs as evidence! :-) < 1236270078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only one comment, I may as well copy it here < 1236270081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a while ago I was going to link impomatic to an article I saw on reddit last year about someone implementing a bunch of algorithms like from TAOCP in redcode, but then I clicked the link again and saw it was him :D < 1236270085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1236270094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you link him anyway? < 1236270096 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would have < 1236270100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, not that I recall < 1236270104 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where's that? ;-) < 1236270112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: it just linked to impomatic.blogspot.com < 1236270122 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I implement another ever now and again. < 1236270169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : org euclid+2 < 1236270170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :euclid mod.ab #a, #b < 1236270170 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: I like your descriptions of esolangs, very clear < 1236270171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : mov.x euclid, euclid < 1236270173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : jmn.a euclid, euclid < 1236270175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't realise that was so simple < 1236270176 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ought to finish off Heap sort. It's about 70 instructions though, 4 times longer than anything else. < 1236270191 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quicksort and Combsort are both under 20 instructions < 1236270192 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how long is mergesort in redcode, I wonder? < 1236270212 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might tackle merge sort. < 1236270219 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love redcode, actually, it's a sort of anti-esolang < 1236270226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it occurs to me that sorting arrays is a pretty rare operation. < 1236270233 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't quite figured in-place mergesort < 1236270235 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236270241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and most of the time your values have a trivial mapping to integers, so you should just use one of the non-comparison sorts < 1236270244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, wossname, bucket sort? < 1236270261 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1236270281 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, recently I was sorting a large list of words ordered by the words with letters sorted into alphabetical order < 1236270288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of a lookup table for anagrams < 1236270290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :letters have a trivial isomorph to integers. < 1236270293 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there are uses < 1236270293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236270296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :letters do, but words don't < 1236270300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, true < 1236270306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, they do, but they're sufficiently large that bucket sort would be very inefficeint < 1236270307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, that's quite a rare cas < 1236270307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1236270309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*inefficeint < 1236270324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I was making a standard library, I would have 'sort : (a -> int) -> [a] -> [a]' < 1236270335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 'genericSort : {comparable a} [a] -> [a]' < 1236270342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or similar < 1236270454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it turns out that strongly typing OOP duck-typing is easy. < 1236270468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance: < 1236270469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello : 'a = {(+) : 'b -> 'c} -> 'b -> 'c < 1236270470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello a b = a + b < 1236270481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying to figure out how to do that with multi dispatch < 1236270543 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: does that collapse into a '_a sort of type? < 1236270550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does it stay fully polymorphic? < 1236270558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fully polymorphic < 1236270563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming + is a message, ofc. < 1236270565 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty impressive < 1236270570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ocaml pretty much does the same < 1236270572 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, that's pretty clear from your syntax < 1236270582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for multi dispatch, well, it's harder < 1236270585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you dispatch on all arguments < 1236270587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's my attempt: < 1236270607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suddenly wonders what unassignable compiled into ocaml would look like < 1236270609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello : { (+) : 'a -> 'b -> 'c }. 'a -> 'b -> 'c < 1236270609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello a b = a + b < 1236270631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so { } is a "context", basically meaning 'for the multi dispatch methods satisfying...' < 1236270644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, I might try that < 1236270646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't be hard < 1236270650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it would be < 1236270805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: unfortunately, < 1236270805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :avg : { length : 'a -> 'b; (/) : 'b -> 'c -> 'd; sum : 'a -> 'c } 'a -> 'd < 1236270805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :avg lst = length lst / sum lst < 1236270811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you pretty much end up repeating the function body < 1236270826 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's to be expected < 1236270833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG < 1236270839 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the OMG? < 1236270840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The new version of D < 1236270842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is 100% open source < 1236270846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fully buildable dmd < 1236270848 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't the old version? < 1236270853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not all of it < 1236270862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the frontend and some of the backend, iirc < 1236270866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there was some code from other places < 1236270870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that couldn't be relicensed < 1236270877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but finally it's fully open source < 1236271070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gr, this is irritating < 1236271367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is this brokennn < 1236271419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1236271424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grah. < 1236271429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on gnu sed, I think. < 1236271443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ifdef LIB_PACK_NAME < 1236271444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : FOR_PACK_NAME := $(shell echo $(LIB_PACK_NAME) | sed -e 's/^\(.\)/\U\1/') < 1236271446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :endif < 1236271449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why must people not test on BSD < 1236271479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does BSD sed have arbitrary limits < 1236271491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is that a reference < 1236271491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1236271525 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a backrefence, yes < 1236271530 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought all seds did that, though < 1236271536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant < 1236271541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:44 ais523: does BSD sed have arbitrary limits < 1236271544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a reference to something < 1236271549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it isn't < 1236271561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% sed -e's/^\(.\)/\U\1/' < 1236271561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1236271562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ua < 1236271564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some old versions of sed couldn't handle more than a certain amount of text at once < 1236271568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus causing my Usexplib problem < 1236271585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\U is a perlism for translating into uppercase, I wonder if GNU sed has it too? < 1236271594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes < 1236271596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely < 1236271599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it should be Sexplib < 1236271609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, I'd loathe to install gsed, and I can't modify omakefile < 1236271614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, ocamlmakefile < 1236271618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ... hm. < 1236271944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: any suggestions> < 1236271983 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write your own wrapper for sed that specifically traps that line, and put it higher up on your PATH? < 1236272007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would not be surprised to find more gstupidity. < 1236272022 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, replace it with an s2p followed by perl layer, then < 1236272028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should create /usr/local/hell. < 1236272031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Containing gnu tools. < 1236272032 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a sort of perl-sed which is more likely to be GNU-sed compatible < 1236272039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And tell godi to put it on its path. < 1236272046 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you seem to really dislike gnu tools for some reason < 1236272047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bloar/ < 1236272049 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*bloat? < 1236272073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd dislike them less if software didn't rabidly depend on them when I preferred bsd tools < 1236272092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sort of like how Windows would be a bad OS but not really that bad if it wasn't so ubiquitous < 1236272118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird:~] % s2p -e 's/^\(.\)/\U\1/' >x.pl < 1236272118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird:~] % perl x.pl < 1236272119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sexplib < 1236272121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usexplib < 1236272127 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1236272133 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that really is a bad sed script, then < 1236272244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... < 1236272261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :install gsed as /opt/local/bin/sed, then alias sed='/usr/bin/sed' in zsh? < 1236272351 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=arvid@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236272416 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1236272564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is very impressed with impomatic's print-in-decimal code < 1236272618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a pretty simple algorithm, just everything looks more impressive when written in redcode for some reason < 1236272623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is FP implemented? < 1236272631 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :floating point, no < 1236272636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Function Programming. < 1236272641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Backus's apology for Fortran. < 1236272642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/FP_programming_language < 1236272645 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236272661 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION misread wikipedia as esolang somehow < 1236272664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236272687 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: which print in decimal algorithm? I think there are 3 on there. Recursive, interative, and one which can also do any number base < 1236272727 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one in your forth program < 1236272732 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just shocked at how short it was < 1236272735 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a lang looking like asm < 1236272739 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :redcode does that to me < 1236272750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :redcode is far superior to x86... < 1236272753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scary. < 1236272764 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine it would be a real pain to implement in hardware < 1236272786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conventional programming languages are growing < 1236272786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever more enormous, but not stronger. Inherent defects < 1236272787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the most basic level cause them to be both fat and < 1236272789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weak: their primitive word-at-a-time style of program- < 1236272791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ming inherited from their common ancestor--the von < 1236272793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neumann computer, their close coupling of semantics to < 1236272795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :state transitions, their division of programming into a < 1236272797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :world of expressions and a world of statements, their < 1236272799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inability to effectively use powerful combining forms for < 1236272801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :building new programs from existing ones, and their lack < 1236272803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of useful mathematical properties for reasoning about < 1236272805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :programs. < 1236272807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yikes, flood. < 1236272809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry. < 1236272811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't know PDF linebreaks were, y'know, real. < 1236272846 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pdf is a strictly presentational language < 1236272854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1236272855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate pdfs. < 1236272860 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86 http://assemb.atspace.com/printdec.txt < 1236272861 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my client warns me about unexpected linebreaks in what I'm pasting, it's usual < 1236272868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So does mine < 1236272872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't tell me how many < 1236272877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just shows me a multi line edit form < 1236272877 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, there are quite often unexpected linebreaks < 1236272882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I entered it away too quick < 1236272886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: impressive < 1236272887 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and mine just gives me a line count with a yes/no option < 1236272906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1236272907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: < 1236272908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : call printdec < 1236272911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't that be < 1236272912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jmp printdec? < 1236272916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a tail recursion... < 1236272938 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did impomatic write that one, I wonder? < 1236272944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236272944 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes < 1236272953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main page is in the style of corewar.co.uk, and his name is on it < 1236272968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, he's right here y'know < 1236272976 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I nkow < 1236272981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I nkow too < 1236272981 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw the name < 1236272986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*know < 1236272993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and was wondering if it was impomatic < 1236272996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nkow: To nkep in a ow sort of way. < 1236273012 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, can't be changed to printdec. Yes, that's another of my pages! :-) < 1236273013 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's, like, a double abbreviation < 1236273032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236273042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why can't call at a tail position be turned into a jump...? < 1236273054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, is that PUTCHAR for dos or linux or? < 1236273063 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, the first Google result for nkep is actually the correct meaning < 1236273067 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS < 1236273088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the fifth version is the one that actually defines it < 1236273089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: for me, it suggests nkdep, and shows the top two sesults for that < 1236273092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*result < 1236273094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before the agora results < 1236273099 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes, but those don't count < 1236273115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, http://jmcteague.com/mediawikiold/index.php?title=Nkep&redirect=no looks so much like vandalism < 1236273124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[So you are denying the existence of nonsensical action? Over 50 < 1236273125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :million idiots in this world prove you wrong every day.]] < 1236273127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--bobthj < 1236273131 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but "nkeplwgplxgioyzjvtxjnncsqscvntlbdqromyeyvlhkjgteaqnneqgujjpwcbyfrpueoydjjk" bears a strong resemblence to its actual definition < 1236273136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic, err, why does using DOS prevent you from jumping? < 1236273138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what politically motivated thing he's referring to. < 1236273147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: SCROLLBACK. < 1236273152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : also, is that PUTCHAR for dos or linux or? < 1236273155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that isn't vandalism < 1236273156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236273158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's iammars's site < 1236273163 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I know < 1236273166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236273172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why I said it /looked/ like vandalism < 1236273176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though I know it's probably not < 1236273184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, if someone did vandalism that string, would you ever know? < 1236273192 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*vandalise < 1236273194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vandalism is a verb! :D < 1236273205 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The routine builds a list of digits on the stack, which are then popped off and printed. < 1236273218 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, so it's non-tail recursin < 1236273230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236273234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1236273240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236273242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1236273246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need call's stack effects < 1236273256 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can be made iterative, but that is 2 bytes longer. < 1236273276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could make an iterative one that iterates backwards. I wrote one, The max space you may need is rather trivial to calculate iirc. < 1236273279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks for the code < 1236273313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. My code is for any base 0-36 and in C < 1236273318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236273320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1-36 < 1236273333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. the whole point is to be short. < 1236273349 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not bases <= 0 ? :-( < 1236273357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :minus bases rock < 1236273358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone loves negative bases < 1236273365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, bases 0-36 and in C is trivial < 1236273366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/o7Da1r12.html < 1236273368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you need negative digits < 1236273371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> negative strings < 1236273371 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there's a standard library function for doing that < 1236273378 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm.... 2-36, probably < 1236273383 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does base 0 mean, anyway? < 1236273388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://pastie.org/408471 < 1236273388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even base 1 = unary is dubious < 1236273398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I just followed BASE spec < 1236273399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: highly dubious, base 1 is useless < 1236273401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all 0 < 1236273408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, make an automatic rafb repaster bot < 1236273410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: agreed < 1236273410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236273418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It'll do that, then spam you with messages. < 1236273424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/notices, to be precise. < 1236273431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your choice < 1236273432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I can ignore them easily < 1236273439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1236273442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not if it makes 100 clones over proxie. < 1236273443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proxies. < 1236273449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway, I need to paste from command line. < 1236273454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in wgetpaste < 1236273467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so? you can script that trivially < 1236273470 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: then we just get freenode to ban oyu < 1236273476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for spamming someone with 100 proxies < 1236273477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes, I already have a working script < 1236273481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed < 1236273481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so I use a proxy :P < 1236273500 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-95-64.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236273503 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you write hex in lowercase? < 1236273519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why shouldn't I? < 1236273528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: negative bases digit sets use your negative strings < 1236273528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236273531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no real reason, I'm just surprised < 1236273536 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: haha! < 1236273541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, BASE is RC/Funge, so it isn't that well defined anyway < 1236273559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it define bases 0 and 1 as? < 1236273578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, reflect iirc. in mycology BASE is *all* UNDEF < 1236273586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahaha! < 1236273594 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what's the point of testing it, then? < 1236273597 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to see what it does? < 1236273617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes, and it is partly UNDEF because there is no way the program can verify it itself < 1236273626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it only goes to output < 1236273660 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1236273677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway my implementation is CCBI compatible, though different code. IIRC CCBI used some D string format stuff which could do any base < 1236273692 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, is that underspecified < 1236273701 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Output n in base b" < 1236273717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, it doesn't say iirc what range is valid < 1236273722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it doesn't < 1236273726 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I just wrote is the /entire definition/ < 1236273732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1236273741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and that could vary a lot < 1236273760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :base 2-16 are pretty well defined, by common practise. But apart from that... < 1236273774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, that's not too unspecified < 1236273809 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My 8086 code for IEEE multiplication is more accurate than my processor. The processor rounds incorrectly about 1 time in 3 billion < 1236273822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic, um, for specific values I guess? < 1236273847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic, also that isn't strange. x87 is using 80 bits internally < 1236273878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic, use SSE2 to do it, and you will get IEEE iirc < 1236273883 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't check the range of values... just ran it for a day and then compare some of the discrepancies. < 1236273918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic, this was using float or double? < 1236273923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what specific CPU? < 1236273926 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I checked the results by hand and re-read the spec and it turns out the processor is wrong. < 1236273952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as, what exact instructions were you using for the CPU floating point < 1236273971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what FPU flags did you have set... If you used x87 < 1236273986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah impomatic can remember all these minute details from years ago < 1236273988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who can't < 1236274000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know it was years ago < 1236274012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he said 8086 < 1236274018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not very modern < 1236274030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I know people using C64 for fun these days < 1236274038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for nostalgia < 1236274039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and such < 1236274047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, your point was? < 1236274056 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1236274060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8086 isn't very nostalgaic < 1236274065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just an old x86 < 1236274070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first one < 1236274070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing much special < 1236274076 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8086 makes me nostalgic for the old versions of DOS < 1236274081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see! < 1236274084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's DOS nostalgia < 1236274089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 8086 nostalgia < 1236274096 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intel Celeron 600Mhz, can't be more specific. Single precision. < 1236274096 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know < 1236274105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wasn't it FOS back then rather? < 1236274108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the 8086 is a nostalgia-trigger for me < 1236274110 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ? < 1236274117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Floppy Operating System < 1236274118 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer Z80 < 1236274118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1236274126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A floppy is a disk. < 1236274135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic, "Intel Celeron 600Mhz" != "8086" < 1236274136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236274145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then ehird's argument is even more void < 1236274147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(So is an HD. A cd-rom is a disc though.) < 1236274154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, because that's even less special < 1236274161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so less nostalgiac < 1236274180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I use a Pentium 3 as a file server. < 1236274189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you're bonkers. < 1236274210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, No I'm just not rich < 1236274225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but pentium 3? < 1236274238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes, I had one around. A waste to throw it away < 1236274239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: file servers don't need a fast processor < 1236274243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1236274248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a pentium 3 in _anything_... < 1236274252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed. All it does is serve NFS from two IDE disks < 1236274258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, better than Pentium 4 < 1236274262 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I have some even older computers lying around < 1236274268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got a computer which used to run windows 3.1 < 1236274274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I have some old world macs. < 1236274278 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but both the Windows and the DOS on there have died to bitrot < 1236274283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a pentium 3 isn't better than a pentium 4... < 1236274285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well one pre-PPC < 1236274290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is. in fact. < 1236274296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i disagree. < 1236274298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, consider the pipeline stall < 1236274304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one aspect. < 1236274304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see logs from today < 1236274339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, Pentium 4 also stalls badly at context switch < 1236274358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just FYI < 1236274388 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have about 40 old computers lying around. Several Z80 computer (z80, amstrad, msx) a few 6502, 6809 machines, one 8085 and others I haven't got a clue about. < 1236274400 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a Hektor II and a Cray OWS :-) < 1236274409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and stalls a bit at syscall() too, it was worse when linux used interrupts, with 2.6 kernels it uses SYSENTER/SYSEXIT SYSCALL/SYSRET (forgot which is intel and which is amd) < 1236274419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which stalls less badly on Pentium 4 < 1236274443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic, CRAY! :D < 1236274459 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this laptop's a celeron M, I have no idea if that's good or bad < 1236274462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, in any case a P4 uses more power than a P3 too < 1236274471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and finally < 1236274476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a P4 < 1236274487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did have one years ago. it overheated in the end < 1236274490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had a p4 way back. < 1236274490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even with a huge fan < 1236274494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sucked! < 1236274499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236274502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :p4 sucks < 1236274505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also had 15 inches. < 1236274507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of monitor, that is. < 1236274509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236274512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk food < 1236274518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: all my previous processors sucked too, though. < 1236274523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the p4 was a mild improvement. < 1236274621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, I knew haskell in 2007. < 1236274748 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Cray isn't a supercomputer, although it's the size of a washing machine, has 12 huge fans and 8 processors. < 1236274761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: However, it CAN execute an infinite loop in 6 seconds. < 1236275291 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, but so can your FACE. < 1236275309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::'( < 1236275360 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: 2 seconds according to answers.com < 1236275379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, 6 < 1236275383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was the original < 1236275399 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the same search let me find this: http://stackoverflow.com/questions/367571/detecting-infinite-loop-in-brainfuck-program < 1236275414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is interesting, and also contains some really stupid beliefs about infinite loops < 1236275422 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"EDIT: I do know that the halting problem is unsolvable in general, but I was not sure whether there did not exist special case exceptions. Like, maybe Matlab might function as a Super Turing machine able to determine the halting of the bf program. I might be horribly wrong, but if so, I would like to know exactly how and why." < 1236275443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stack overflow is a hilarious cesspool of people with slightly less intelligence than jeff atwood < 1236275457 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't mean it can't be interesting, if maybe in a perverse sense < 1236275473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"SECOND EDIT: I have written what I purport to be infinite loop detector. It probably misses some edge cases (or less probably, somehow escapes Mr. Turing's clutches), but seems to work for me as of now. In pseudocode form, here it goes:" < 1236275474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x_x < 1236275483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Interesting like a freakshow... < 1236275500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Call bfexec recursively with subprog" < 1236275502 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't that fail on +[>+]? < 1236275503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That will never go wrong. < 1236275506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes. < 1236275559 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahaha, that fails spectacularly :P < 1236275569 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'll also call this an infinite loop: +>++<[>] < 1236275587 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the answers are surprisingly sane < 1236275607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The worst part is that you can actually have a good crack at a halting detector for BF, allowing for uncertainty for tricksy programs. < 1236275617 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The sad part is, there /are/ specific cases where infinite loops are detectable, but this poor sap will never understand the distinction between "general" and "specific" at all :P < 1236275621 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to see a usually-right halting oracle for BF < 1236275623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: snap < 1236275631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not usually-right < 1236275639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just right-a-good-portion-of-the-time-in-non-tricksy-cases < 1236275658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/cambridge/projects/terminator/ < 1236275732 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still like the idea of being able to submit a program with an automatically verifiable proof it always halts < 1236275742 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or always spends a finite time between asking for input < 1236275747 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like taht < 1236275761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the halting problem is neatly sidestepped by going slightly subturing < 1236275778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enough to express most things, but you can only loop forever if given infinite input from the outside environment < 1236275796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if you want to run a program that requires infinite livelihood, pipe something like 'yes' to it) < 1236275803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, that'd be optimised out < 1236275806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's the basic idea < 1236275854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the last answer: "I have created a truly marvelous program to do this, which this textbox is too narrow to contain. " < 1236275935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: same user answered with befunge on another question < 1236275939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/62188/stack-overflow-code-golf/ < 1236275945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using '1' as a befunge stack overflow < 1236276002 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1236276012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 1 pushes 1 to the stack < 1236276014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it loops < 1236276014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to have a very small stack to do that < 1236276017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236276017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it pushes infinite 1s < 1236276019 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clever < 1236276020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eventually overflowing the stack < 1236276022 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'1' not '1@; < 1236276025 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* '1@' < 1236276089 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that befunge solution is clever, even though it's a different sort of stack < 1236276107 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shortest stack overflow I can think of in INTERCAL is (1)DO(1)NEXT < 1236276115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that beats most of the submissions there < 1236276151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Ruby/Perl `$0` < 1236276161 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that, technically speaking, a stack overflow? < 1236276163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :system stack overflow! < 1236276167 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an ingenious infinite recursion < 1236276170 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's overflowing something else I think < 1236276172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, because `` returns a value < 1236276176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do < 1236276184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :puts `$0` + " and " + `$0` < 1236276185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in ruby < 1236276187 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but it's a different stack each tiem < 1236276193 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, it's a number-of-stacks overflow < 1236276197 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a stack stack overflow! < 1236276197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's the stack of process children < 1236276199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1236276200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is more of a tree < 1236276202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still < 1236276249 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone wrote a compile-time soverflow in C++ < 1236276251 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*overflow < 1236276256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's a stack overflow, though < 1236276260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/62188/stack-overflow-code-golf/63812#63812 < 1236276264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now _that's_ cool < 1236276265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a type-complexity-overflow < 1236276295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, that's ingenious, a non-looping stack overflow < 1236276308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1236276360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr, the Scheme submissions are stupid < 1236276363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're tailcalls < 1236276378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all Scheme standards mandate TCO < 1236276423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irssi: < 1236276425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/eval $L < 1236276433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about infinite recursion. You can detect trivial cases of finite/infinite. In fact compiler do that to optimise better. < 1236276453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC can warn you about loops it can't decide about < 1236276453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks, we only said that 5 times before you. < 1236276453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1236276469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm still reading scrollback. My comment memory is rather small < 1236276476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can't wait until I read it all < 1236276482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the IRC equivalent of ais523's agora posting < 1236276490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except IRC lines are a lot easier to read ahead on.. < 1236276538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how do you declare something at the gprolog prompt? < 1236276540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forget < 1236276547 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use assert < 1236276553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need an extra pair of parens due to precedence < 1236276561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you write assert((head :- body)). < 1236276561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uncaught exception: error(existence_error(procedure,assert/1),top_level/0) < 1236276567 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1236276568 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assertz < 1236276578 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or asserta to declare it at the start of the program) < 1236276609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :| ?- assertz((a(X) :- assertz(X))). < 1236276623 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did that work? < 1236276627 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why it wouldn't have < 1236276633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it did < 1236276639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, another one small as the befunge one < 1236276640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :intel 4004 < 1236276641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CALL $ < 1236276644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> ascii , 0101 0000 < 1236276649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot faster too :P < 1236276653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stackoverflow.com/questions/62188/stack-overflow-code-golf/597372#597372 < 1236276673 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a Prolog stack overflow would be a:-a,b. < 1236276678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : a stack stack overflow! <-- possible in Funge-98. < 1236276685 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you need to set compiler flags not to error on the undefined command b < 1236276685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in a different meaning < 1236276689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: or just < 1236276692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :p:-p < 1236276697 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's tail-recursion < 1236276704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gprolog doesn't optimize it < 1236276707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fatal Error: global stack overflow (size: 16385 Kb, environment variable used: GLOBALSZ) < 1236276713 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WOW IT IS RUBBISH < 1236276718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL < 1236276724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can any prolog interp not optimise tail-recursion? < 1236276726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was unexpected < 1236276726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if { can't allocate another stack in the stack-stack it is required to reflect though, so it doesn't fail at overflow < 1236276748 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the only general way to do looping in prolog < 1236276757 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from assert/retract in a backtrack loop, which is insanely ugly < 1236276758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird:~] % GLOBALSZ=-1 gprolog < 1236276758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fatal Error: global stack overflow (size: 1 Kb, environment variable used: GLOBALSZ) < 1236276780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: < 1236276784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :p :- print(hi), p < 1236276785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works < 1236276786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not p :- p < 1236276810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no < 1236276812 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that's even weirder < 1236276813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just takes longer to overflow < 1236276855 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, gprolog's the only interp for any language I know of, other than OIL which doesn't count, which can crash because it's run out of strings < 1236276870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahaha < 1236276870 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, running out of strings is a dubious concept anyway < 1236276928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it has a fixed size string pool? < 1236276937 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236276984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically current erlang versions can run out of atoms. But the limit is a few millions iirc, and someone said it will most likely go away in the next major release < 1236277023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ you can change the limit with some obscure command line option iirc < 1236277064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The maximum number of atoms is 1048576." (in R12B-5) < 1236277093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.erlang.org/doc/efficiency_guide/advanced.html#9.2 < 1236277099 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: try running setof(Property,atom_property(Atom,Property),PropertyList). at the gprolog repl < 1236277106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use ; to run through the results < 1236277109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... is that russel's paradox? < 1236277112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236277118 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it returns the string pool, and data about it < 1236277123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1236277132 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really amusing is that some of the strings in the pool are filenames on the computers where it was defined or edited < 1236277135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that seems strange < 1236277141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Atom = '/home/diaz/GP/src/src/BipsPl/dec10io.pl' < 1236277141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PropertyList = [needs_quotes,hash(458243),length(39)] ? < 1236277158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, strange... < 1236277177 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: GNU Prolog is crazily reflective < 1236277194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :| ?- setof(Property,X,Y). < 1236277194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uncaught exception: error(instantiation_error,setof/3) < 1236277196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1236277196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O < 1236277202 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even more so than the standard portable version, which is also crazily reflective < 1236277205 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: why is that o_O? < 1236277210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idungeddi < 1236277213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1236277221 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's "for all commands, run that command and return the set of results" < 1236277231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, still don't you think running out of atoms is a bit funny? < 1236277236 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes I do! < 1236277243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:20 ais523: that's "for all commands, run that command and return the set of results" < 1236277243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so? < 1236277245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i tshould do it! < 1236277263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would work in my language < 1236277264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> x < 1236277266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x = 0 < 1236277267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x = 1 < 1236277269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(forever) < 1236277273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x = {} < 1236277275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x = {0} < 1236277277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x = {1} < 1236277278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(forever) < 1236277280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x = {0,0} < 1236277282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(etc) < 1236277286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1236277287 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most Prolog interpretations have some restrictions on what they can do < 1236277296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :insane things are very easy to write in Prolog < 1236277344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd also have (crash = 1/0) < 1236277349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for error reporting. :P < 1236277361 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely running all commands would cause an exception before long? < 1236277368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ooh, that's a good idea < 1236277369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the reason erlang can run out of atoms currently is that for speed reasons it maps each atom to an integer internally. Type tagged in some way of course. < 1236277373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, how did you know it didn't work? < 1236277373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1236277380 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the first command it ran caused an instantiation_error < 1236277387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: same reason in Prolog < 1236277395 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except the pool seems smaller < 1236277401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isa(crasher(x), _) < 1236277405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crasher is all functions < 1236277413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm not sure that would be valid code < 1236277443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, no < 1236277445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd just define x < 1236277446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not crasher < 1236277448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eval(_) should work < 1236277454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eval(x) would work < 1236277456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it also has some lookup table for it. Anyway the limit is too large for any sane program to hit. Oh and atoms are in the current version never removed from said table. Plans are to change that in the future. < 1236277458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it'd just evaluate boring things < 1236277459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like '' < 1236277461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'\0' < 1236277461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1236277464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd want < 1236277477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that is garbage collect the atom ids. < 1236277479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some sort of < 1236277489 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, it seems that Erlang copied some of the deficiencies of Prolog as well as some of its advantages < 1236277496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isa(x,string); try(eval(x), 'error') < 1236277505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, How do you mean? < 1236277505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note: cannot distinguish errors from programs outputting 'error' :P < 1236277569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blog.wolfram.com/2009/03/05/wolframalpha-is-coming/ <- Puh leez. < 1236277573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh and erlang seems more useful in "real world". I mean from what I understood, and I may be wrong, Prolog is a bit like Scheme: both languages are very nice and such, but aren't very easy to use for anything practical. < 1236277579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in a portable way < 1236277594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You've got a Turing complete language and a toy model of complexity. That oracle will practically write itself!" --reddit. < 1236277612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scheme is very practical. < 1236277617 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236277618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not for networked applications, or the like. < 1236277635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are plenty of standalone, {file,keyboard}-to-{file,stdout} programs < 1236277685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "We're making early access available to a few select individuals. Contact us for information »" < 1236277685 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will totally write "dong" in it < 1236277691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must apply :P < 1236277697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1236277701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is NKS? < 1236277707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that link ehird posted < 1236277715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :new kind of science, Wolfram's ego in book form. < 1236277724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236277724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1236277740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the classification book is more generous, let's say "dead tree". < 1236277747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/more/too/ < 1236277765 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh you. < 1236277865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.theonion.com/content/node/34168 < 1236277884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://blog.wolfram.com/2009/03/05/wolframalpha-is-coming/ <- Puh leez. <-- so, what do you think about it? < 1236277908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Wolfram is pioneering his revolutionary new "Masturbate direct to a web page" technology. < 1236277923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, cuil fail? < 1236277933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, cuil is at least amusing. < 1236277938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This will probably just be pathetic. < 1236277941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236277977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually knew it was coming, but had to keep it a secret < 1236277994 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really, reading about it < 1236278003 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sort of reminds me of EsCo :o < 1236278006 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iunno why < 1236278009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: LOL, since when < 1236278013 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why the corewar subreddit has been banned :-( < 1236278018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: o_O it has? < 1236278019 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for ages < 1236278024 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's torture ais523 for more secrets < 1236278033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how could you keep the excitement in you?! < 1236278047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how did you know about it? < 1236278058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah, good idea < 1236278070 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the wolfram people was talking to me and showing it off < 1236278077 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I even suggested a couple of changes < 1236278080 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So... what does it do? < 1236278088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does it fail badly? < 1236278088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: it searches KNOWLEDGE ITSELF!!!!!!!1111111 < 1236278090 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read the wolfram blog description < 1236278098 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's wikipedia? < 1236278101 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236278102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236278109 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/corewar/ < 1236278111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it actually works? < 1236278116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like wikipedia but useless! < 1236278121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it works well? < 1236278128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: I'd try the feedback < 1236278129 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not really like wikipedia < 1236278134 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more like google calculator + insane < 1236278141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ ego < 1236278149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so is it fail or not? < 1236278158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: you could start a new one called "raweroc" or something temporarily < 1236278171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: its failure status is covered by his NDA. < 1236278179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why was corewar reddit banned, anyway/ < 1236278184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, he didn't say so < 1236278185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that;'s what he's asking < 1236278188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it was a joke < 1236278204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, which line was a joke < 1236278204 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't actually sign an NDA, it was an informal agreement < 1236278214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:36 ehird: AnMaster: its failure status is covered by his NDA. < 1236278217 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I didn't really see enough to tell much more about it than what's been announced < 1236278227 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1236278230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: with less hyperbole, I assume? < 1236278235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah ok. "It" could have meant one of ais523's comments too < 1236278293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so, is it fail? < 1236278342 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll see < 1236278369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd think that'd be a vague enough question to answer < 1236278385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION agrees with ehird < 1236278389 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"All one needs to be able to do is to take questions people ask in natural language, and represent them in a precise form that fits into the computations one can do." < 1236278395 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the Wolfram blog < 1236278407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes, that implies fail < 1236278412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so it takes mathematica expressions? < 1236278415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and EVALUATES THEM?! < 1236278415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236278427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it is certainly capable of doing that < 1236278427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy shiiiiiiii < 1236278432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1236278435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can it make toast < 1236278439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it can, I'm sold < 1236278447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will it cost money? < 1236278449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or be free < 1236278454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both < 1236278465 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea about that, they changed the name since I last saw it < 1236278467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where did it say that? < 1236278473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks for it in the blog < 1236278474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was it called? AMAZINGWIN? < 1236278534 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the biggest clue about what they expect it to be used for is "But if one’s already made knowledge computable, one doesn’t need to do that kind of natural language understanding.", I think < 1236278546 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe "Pulling all of this together to create a true computational knowledge engine is a very difficult task." < 1236278552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck does that mean < 1236278557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so vague scigen could have made it < 1236278564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scigen? < 1236278567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/SCIgen < 1236278594 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Let’s say we succeed in creating a system that knows a lot, and can figure a lot out." is maybe an even better description < 1236278615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: they created strong AI? < 1236278623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Enslaved 5 thousand chinese teenagers to answer the queries? < 1236278632 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1236278645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wolfram personally answers all input? < 1236278658 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, they probably had a reason for not telling anyone what the hell it's about, so I'll shut up now < 1236278680 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get the thumbscrews, we'll get the truth out of him! < 1236278699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm pretty sure the reason was "Wolfram is a megalomaniac theater director"... < 1236278699 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that, or they just have insanely bad marketing < 1236278745 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, a web search about it reveals people saying, "that's too vague, it must just be an appetiser" < 1236278779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1236278780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://motls.blogspot.com/2009/03/wolframalpha-central-brain-of-mankind.html < 1236278783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"central brain of mankind" < 1236278783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like Apple < 1236278783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XDDD < 1236278789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about future products < 1236278790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vague < 1236278796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rumors < 1236278803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: apple are _silent_ about future products, except via rumours < 1236278809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ok true < 1236278812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a difference < 1236278813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and most often those rumours are ridiculously precise < 1236278825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you mean intentionally leaked? < 1236278836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly :P < 1236278902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: one question -- is it actually something new that works? < 1236278906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely that's vague enough to answer... < 1236278920 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that blog: "Once you'll be able to open www.wolframalpha.com, it will be ready to convert every question of yours, formulated in a natural language, into a well-defined computational format that represents the natural language." < 1236278928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a NLP? < 1236278938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :English -> Mathematica... < 1236278939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1236278942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "The Central Brain of Mankind will search all (so far only millions of lines of) possible algorithms, methods, statements, and all (so far only trillions) of curated data that exist on the Internet, combine them and recombine them in all conceivable ways, and answer your question." < 1236278947 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I think that's clear enough < 1236278960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's clear if you deal in marketing bullshit and vagueities < 1236278968 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it compiles English into Mathematica, and then combines it with a massive database < 1236278982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, right, nothing special < 1236278988 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus a few other miscellaneous things which probably they've dropped by now because they struck me as ridiculous ideas at the time < 1236278990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1236278995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, the NLP is probably awful < 1236278996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they haven't been mentioned yet so I won't tell < 1236278997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantum computer? < 1236278997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like terrible awful. < 1236279000 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no < 1236279004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"combine in all possible ways" < 1236279019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely only a quantum computer could do that for such a large data set < 1236279025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they renting out google's servers? :P < 1236279068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the TLA NLP means? < 1236279074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in this context) < 1236279084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :natural language probes. < 1236279088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except with a different p < 1236279090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probes? < 1236279092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236279093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I'm sure you can deduce < 1236279095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :processor? < 1236279097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hint: it's "parsing") < 1236279101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236279142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, if this uses the internet, then the data isn't verified correct is it? < 1236279154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is one reason it will fail < 1236279161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you won't know what is true and what is false < 1236279183 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know where the dataset comes from < 1236279193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw, how comes you were told about this? < 1236279206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he won the prize < 1236279212 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: someone working on it was interviewing me < 1236279212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably wolfram have spammed him ever since < 1236279215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and decided to show it off < 1236279229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1236279240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what did you say the name was back then? < 1236279247 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't < 1236279253 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there were at least two possibilities < 1236279257 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they didn't choose either < 1236279264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, does Wolfram's internal codename for something matter/ < 1236279269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would it hurt revealing them? < 1236279274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1236279279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1236279280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1236279295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he was told not to. < 1236279295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there's no reason anyone should know it, really, and they might have a reason for people not to know it? < 1236279304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, what possible reason? < 1236279306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm ok < 1236279319 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know of a reason, but I don't specifically know that there isn't < 1236279330 0 :Judofyr_!n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1236279342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we could help you find out ;P < 1236279362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using wolfram|alpha < 1236279370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"WHAT WAS THE CODENAME OF WOLFRAM|ALPHA?" < 1236279372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"PARSE ERROR" < 1236279376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"**RESET**" < 1236279377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"" < 1236279421 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236279424 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, so ask it that when it does come out, I'd be amused to see the reply < 1236279438 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "HOW IS BABBY FORMED" < 1236279445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why in upper case? < 1236279451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's 80s technology! < 1236279459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"WHAT SETS DO NOT CONTAIN THEMSELVES?" < 1236279459 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because capslock is cruise control for cool < 1236279462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"GO TO HELL" < 1236279464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wrong. It's because it is a REAL QUERY LANGUAGE < 1236279467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"**RESET**" < 1236279497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people typing with caps lock on should do it in lowercase < 1236279509 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this message and the previous were typed using caps lock < 1236279511 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the next best thing to knowing how to use a search engine! < 1236279517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, shift < 1236279523 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know, that was obvious < 1236279571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my old mac didn't lower case on shift + caps lock < 1236279602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only caused the non-letter keys to change (they were unaffected by caps lock) < 1236279606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :new macs don't either < 1236279610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1236279618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT IS QUITE NICE FOR WHEN YOU WANT DOUBLE_POWERED CAPS LOCK < 1236279624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why? And I assume apple have a reason to change it? < 1236279627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236279634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have an option to change it* < 1236279648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because if you hit the shift key instinctively for new sentences, yOU DON'T LOOK LIKE THIS. sEE? < 1236279650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(never try writing two different things at once) < 1236279658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, no, it's not an option, it's a rather trivial thing really < 1236279672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh, like there is no option to change font < 1236279680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1236279693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you can't change font size in Tiger iirc < 1236279702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it typeface you couldn't change < 1236279705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, one of them < 1236279707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for menus and such < 1236279725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, your valid OS criticisms would be listened to more if you didn't say ridiculous vague things that on the mostpart aren't even legitimate criticisms. < 1236279730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You do that with Windows too... < 1236279739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err see above < 1236279742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did clarify < 1236279765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I remember you can't change either font, or size, in the menus in OS X 10.4 < 1236279772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may be wrong < 1236279777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I don't use OS X often < 1236279783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if I am, please tell < 1236279800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the font" < 1236279802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so very specific < 1236279810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how is it unspecific? < 1236279832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Change to Helvetica in the Apple Menu using the settings panels in OS X < 1236279833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how < 1236279835 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-083-061.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1236279839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if it is Helvetica < 1236279842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :change it to Times < 1236279846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, in the actual system. < 1236279849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you can't do that. < 1236279854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes menus < 1236279857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how was it vague < 1236279857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you can. < 1236279858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't < 1236279873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not documented with standard tools < 1236279873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using tinkertools < 1236279879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so? < 1236279884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who gives a shit apart from you? < 1236279914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, some old people can't see very well for example < 1236279919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they would need larger font < 1236279920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can make fonts bigger. < 1236279932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and possibly a clearer type < 1236279934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typeface* < 1236279941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lucida grande is very clear. < 1236279977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, for example I read recently there are some type faces optimised for people who are dyslectics. I don't think lucida grande is, but I may be wrong < 1236279996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I was dyslexic I'd probably use the speech features < 1236280008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure. But can you get it to read the menus? < 1236280015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1236280017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything < 1236280030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blind people can use OS X just fine < 1236280043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, What about speech-to-text? < 1236280047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236280051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does speech recognition < 1236280053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've tested it < 1236280088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried it. "Open Safari." *firefox opens*. "Close window." *system preferences pops up* < 1236280088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1236280095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ it isn't available in Swedish < 1236280099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works for me. < 1236280099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only in English < 1236280104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe your voice is unclear. < 1236280122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, still neither TTS or STT is available in Swedish < 1236280125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in OS X < 1236280143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, swedes are dirty anyway. who cares about them. < 1236280168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are trying to be funny you aren't succeeding < 1236280170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1236280188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, do you realise who you are? i could say that every time you speak :D < 1236280194 0 :Hiato1!n=1@dsl-245-24-250.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1236280386 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236280416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder if snobol still exists < 1236280573 0 :Hiato1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1236280812 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love weird languages when people actually use them for real programs < 1236280835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like java < 1236280840 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :practical esolanging is always fun < 1236280853 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tombom: who are you, by the way? < 1236280858 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I've seen you here before < 1236280908 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh nobody special, i'm new here < 1236280943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you interested in, esolang-wise? < 1236280984 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :State-of-the-art text-to-speech in Finnish sounded better than I remembered it doing. (Some EU project people asked our speech group to answer a web-based speech synthesis listener-evaluation thing.) < 1236280993 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing special, i'm not massively into it. it's something interesting to code and i find the concepts pretty clever < 1236281089 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and there was one hilarious section, where they had the speech synthesizer read completely nonsense sentences, because the aim in that part was just to evaluate isolated-word intelligibility, and context would've helped if it were real text. I'd paste some of the examples if they weren't in Finnish. < 1236281107 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (aS(:^)S):^ < 1236281108 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(aS(:^)S):^ < 1236281133 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((^ul )SaS(:^)S):^ < 1236281133 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((^ul )SaS(:^)S):^ < 1236281175 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1236281222 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I keep meaning to add keymaker's quine to my underload page < 1236281311 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Underload is such a good language for quines < 1236281336 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A more impolite person might, at this juncture, remark something about that being all it's good for. :p < 1236281352 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236281355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((+ul )SaS(:^)S):^ < 1236281355 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ul ((+ul )SaS(:^)S):^ < 1236281365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dog nabbit < 1236281371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh. < 1236281376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If ! was the char for two interps < 1236281381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then !ul ((!ul )SaS(:^)S):^ < 1236281382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be a forkbomb < 1236281406 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if an interp can handle writing newlines < 1236281412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you could forkbomb even with different chars < 1236281418 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EgoBot used to be able to output newlines... < 1236281426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I miss Egobot. <3 < 1236281430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Psst. < 1236281473 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone should golf the +ul/^ul loop shorter; I don't think I've seen shorter than < 1236281476 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (^ul )(+ul )(~:SaS~aSaS(:^)S):^ < 1236281476 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ul (+ul )(^ul )(~:SaS~aSaS(:^)S):^ < 1236281488 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the shortest symmetrical one I know < 1236281498 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asymmetrical can be shorter < 1236281535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asymmetrical? < 1236281549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, one just tells the other to run a cat with its own source code < 1236281555 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (^)(+)(~:S(ul )SaS~aSaS(:^)S):^ < 1236281555 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ul (+)(^)(~:S(ul )SaS~aSaS(:^)S):^ < 1236281564 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems to have the same amount of chars. < 1236281565 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, clever < 1236281599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (+ul butts)S < 1236281600 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ul butts < 1236281606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((+ul butts)S)^ < 1236281606 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ul butts < 1236281620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((+ul )SS):a~^ < 1236281620 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ul ((+ul )SS) < 1236281642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone may continue. < 1236281751 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((+ul )Sa(^ul )~*(:^)*a(S)*S):^ < 1236281751 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ul (^ul ((+ul )Sa(^ul )~*(:^)*a(S)*S):^)S < 1236281764 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that shorter? < 1236281767 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an asymmetrical one < 1236281777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hoorah < 1236281795 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to again have the same amount, heh. < 1236281833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's the THEORETICAL LIMIT < 1236281902 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there must be a theoretical limit < 1236281948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((+ul )SS):^ < 1236281948 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ul (+ul )SS < 1236281953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((+ul )SaS):^ < 1236281954 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ul ((+ul )SaS) < 1236281958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((+ul )SaS(:^)S):^ < 1236281959 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ul ((+ul )SaS(:^)S):^ < 1236281966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Almost, almost < 1236281970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((+ul )SaS(S)S):^ < 1236281970 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ul ((+ul )SaS(S)S)S < 1236281974 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to get it to prefix with ^ul when the +ul program is run, though < 1236281981 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the ^ has to end up somewhere in the result < 1236281987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1236281988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1236282011 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, about outputting newlines to fork-bomb; underload is very difficult for that, since you can hardly input newlines in IRC. < 1236282031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Underlambda will likely have sugar for output-newline < 1236282087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ( < 1236282087 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...unterminated (! < 1236282088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :)S < 1236282097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, it should keep reading the IRC lines following. < 1236282098 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul . < 1236282099 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...bad insn! < 1236282104 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ...bad insn! < 1236282104 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...bad insn! < 1236282111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kimian < 1236282115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kimian quines FTW < 1236282127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (...bad insn!)S < 1236282127 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...bad insn! < 1236282137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((a)~:^):^ < 1236282139 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...out of time! < 1236282167 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-90-237.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236282206 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :^ul < 1236282220 0 :^ul!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm... < 1236282225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (hi!)S < 1236282225 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi! < 1236282259 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:aSS:^):aSS:^ ...out of stack! < 1236282259 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(:aSS:^):aSS:^ ...out of stack! < 1236282281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DD < 1236282289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beautiful < 1236282315 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:aSS(:^):^):aSS(:^):^ ...out of time! < 1236282315 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(:aSS(:^):^):aSS(:^):^ ...out of time! < 1236282327 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The sense, it has none. < 1236282340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul S < 1236282340 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...out of stack! < 1236282346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1236282350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shouldnt' that say underflow? < 1236282389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ^ < 1236282389 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...out of stack! < 1236282482 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1236282484 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1236282507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:S^):S^ < 1236282507 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::S^ ...out of stack! < 1236282524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (::S^)::S^ < 1236282524 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^::S^ ...too much output! < 1236282534 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yes, that's the underflow message. < 1236282539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:::aSS^):::aSS^ < 1236282540 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(:::aSS^):::aSS^(:::aSS^):::aSS^(:::aSS^):::aSS^(:::aSS^):::aSS^(:::aSS^):::aSS^(:::aSS^):::aSS^(:::aSS^):::aSS^(:::aSS^):::aSS^(:::aSS^):::aSS^(:::aSS^):::aSS^(:::aSS^):::aSS^(:::aSS^):::aSS^(:::aSS^):::aSS^(:::aSS^):::aSS^(:::aSS^):::aSS^(:::aSS^):::aSS^(:::aSS^):::aSS^(:::aSS^):::aSS^(:::aSS^):::aSS^(:::aSS^):::aSS^(::: ...too much output! < 1236282546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:::aSS^ ):::aSS^ < 1236282546 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(:::aSS^ ):::aSS^ (:::aSS^ ):::aSS^ (:::aSS^ ):::aSS^ (:::aSS^ ):::aSS^ (:::aSS^ ):::aSS^ (:::aSS^ ):::aSS^ (:::aSS^ ):::aSS^ (:::aSS^ ):::aSS^ (:::aSS^ ):::aSS^ (:::aSS^ ):::aSS^ (:::aSS^ ):::aSS^ (:::aSS^ ):::aSS^ (:::aSS^ ):::aSS^ (:::aSS^ ):::aSS^ (:::aSS^ ):::aSS^ (:::aSS^ ):::aSS^ (:::aSS^ ):::aSS^ (:::aSS^ ):::aSS^ ...too much output! < 1236282560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (:::aSS^. In case you missed that: ):::aSS^ < 1236282561 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(:::aSS^. In case you missed that: ):::aSS^. In case you missed that: (:::aSS^. In case you missed that: ):::aSS^. In case you missed that: (:::aSS^. In case you missed that: ):::aSS^. In case you missed that: (:::aSS^. In case you missed that: ):::aSS^. In case you missed that: (:::aSS^. In case you missed that: ):::aSS^. ...too much output! < 1236282577 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (foooooo)(~:*~:^):^ < 1236282577 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...too much stack! < 1236282585 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the stack overflow message, too. < 1236282616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (butts)(:*S):^ < 1236282617 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::*S:*S < 1236282621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (butts)(*S):^ < 1236282621 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :butts*S < 1236282636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (butts)(~*S):^ < 1236282636 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~*Sbutts < 1236282643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (butts)(~*:S:^):^ < 1236282644 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~*:S:^butts ...out of stack! < 1236282665 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: What exactly do you mean with "butts out of stack"? < 1236282666 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: probably chicken or gambit. i think you're supposed to smile and notice i was only joking... also im sure it'll be the best way < 1236282678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236282731 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236282791 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236282833 0 :Asztal!n=moo@chunkybacon.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1236283084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://funcall.blogspot.com/2009/03/not-lisp-again.html < 1236283138 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236283141 0 :Asztal!n=moo@chunkybacon.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1236283547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back in ~1hr < 1236283687 0 :^ul!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"spl #0,0 / mov.i #1,1" < 1236283870 0 :Judofyr_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Judofyr < 1236284141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1236284282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236284393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Kimian quines FTW <-- ? < 1236284414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what are those? < 1236284700 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An error message which produces itself when run. < 1236285102 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ( )(*)(~:S:*a~a~*~a*^:Sa~a*~a*^:^):^ < 1236285103 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ** **** ******** **************** ******************************** **************************************************************** ******************************************************************************************************************************** ************************************************************* ...too much output! < 1236285231 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw < 1236285233 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.int80h.org/strlen/ < 1236285556 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (*)()(a~a*~a*^:S( )S:a~a*~a*^*a~a*~a*^:^):^ < 1236285557 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* * ** *** ***** ******** ************* ********************* ********************************** ******************************************************* ***************************************************************************************** ********************************************************************************* ...too much output! < 1236286083 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Peace and Protection 4.22.2" < 1236287253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236288402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex, modern libc uses highly optimised strlen() < 1236288438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example glibc has different very fast optimised ones for i486, i586, i686 and so on < 1236288466 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236288470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scasb isn't fastest on modern x86 < 1236288481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather a much more complex SIMD using variant is iirc < 1236288488 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_o < 1236288500 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, FUCK THIS < 1236288507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex, fuck what? < 1236288515 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just tried to watch an episode of the daily show and it showed me about 5 30-second ads < 1236288527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1236288533 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on their website < 1236288534 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server" < 1236288536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fast forward? < 1236288540 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't < 1236288546 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after the end of one of them, I forgot to unmute in time, so I tried to go back ten seconds < 1236288575 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I accidentally went back before the break, so it gave me a commercial and then I watched the last few seconds of the last part < 1236288588 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after that, it gave me another commercial < 1236288603 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then I finally got to watch the show < 1236288606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex, anyway asm hacks for stuff like strlen, memcpy and so on are stupid on modern systesm < 1236288608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :systems* < 1236288619 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1236288626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the libc includes highly optimised variants < 1236288627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1236288629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I said above < 1236288635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using libc will be faster! < 1236288636 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't that count as asm hacks :p < 1236288641 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not ones you make yourself < 1236288643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex, not in your code < 1236288665 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmm, not enough benefit in inlining? what if you call $function a million times < 1236288676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex, also your code will be more portable, you don't need one asm hack for x86, one for PPC and so on. < 1236288682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as libc provides each < 1236288687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex, glad you asked < 1236288702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex, gcc has a builtin one anyway that it uses when possible < 1236288719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so libc one actually only ends up used when you do stuff that needs the function to be called < 1236288723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like function pointers < 1236288734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or when you use -O0 < 1236288741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or possible sometimes else < 1236288756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex, for constant string literals, gcc will compute length at compile time < 1236288775 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236288830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex, http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-4.3.3/gcc/Other-Builtins.html#Other-Builtins < 1236288836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a LOT of them < 1236288856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex, and there are other pages with other categories < 1236288863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like vector builtins < 1236288869 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, what are you trying to convince me of < 1236288869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sync built ins < 1236288871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1236288873 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1236288889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex, that doing stuff like in http://www.int80h.org/strlen/ is counter productive < 1236288892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on modern systems < 1236288904 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/408758 < 1236288927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex, looks like the one yes < 1236288927 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed, quite unlike what that optimizing strlen article says < 1236288930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for i686 < 1236288934 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's x86_64 < 1236288939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1236288944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I tell you the glibc one is faster < 1236288960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for various reasons < 1236288964 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I believe you, which makes me wonder why doing it manually is faster < 1236288967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes I should have seen it was x86_64 < 1236288971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had I read it properly < 1236288978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sees rax now < 1236289025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex, in any case gcc uses a builtin when it deems it better < 1236289032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which mean code is inlined < 1236289041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other compilers do it too < 1236289045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like icc and so on < 1236289052 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so is there any builtin for "scan forever for a certain character" < 1236289064 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I mean manually as in asm stuff versus scasb < 1236289066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gcc.gnu.org/onlinedocs/gcc-4.3.3/gcc/Other-Builtins.html#Other-Builtins < 1236289071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ISO C90 functions abort, abs, acos, asin, atan2, atan, calloc, ceil, cosh, cos, exit, exp, fabs, floor, fmod, fprintf, fputs, frexp, fscanf, isalnum, isalpha, iscntrl, isdigit, isgraph, islower, isprint, ispunct, isspace, isupper, isxdigit, tolower, toupper, labs, ldexp, log10, log, malloc, memchr, memcmp, memcpy, memset, modf, pow, printf, putchar, puts, scanf, sinh, sin, snprintf, sprintf, sqrt, < 1236289071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : sscanf, strcat, strchr, strcmp, strcpy, strcspn, strlen, strncat, strncmp, strncpy, strpbrk, strrchr, strspn, strstr, tanh, tan, vfprintf, vprintf and vsprintf are all recognized as built-in functions unless -fno-builtin is specified (or -fno-builtin-function is specified for an individual function). All of these functions have corresponding versions prefixed with __builtin_. < 1236289075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that lists strchr < 1236289079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I assume is what you want < 1236289083 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's not < 1236289087 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to stop at a null byte < 1236289102 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I suspect the speed difference is negligible < 1236289114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex, hm. memchr with size set to max pointer - start address :P < 1236289127 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if you saw the discussion yesterday, memchr was slower than strchr < 1236289132 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with gcc -O3 < 1236289193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex, how did the generated asm differ? < 1236289194 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometime I intend to look at gcc's internals < 1236289196 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they must be crazy < 1236289198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that caused it < 1236289198 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: didn't look :p < 1236289201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1236289205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex, then it is hard to know why < 1236289243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex, also how much slower? < 1236289246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did it matter? < 1236289281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex, glibc has rawmemchr... not portable < 1236289292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not a builtin < 1236289315 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about 10ms :u < 1236289316 0 :atrapado!n=abx@cm19117.red91-117.mundo-r.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1236289317 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe 20 < 1236289337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1236289344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex, for how many calls? < 1236289351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also rawmemchr if you don't need portable < 1236289356 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about, uh, a few million or so :u < 1236289361 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1236289366 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also not a builtin < 1236289383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex, that doesn't prevent inline sometimes... < 1236289398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex, some stuff expand to macros < 1236289407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in *certain cases* < 1236289414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex, glibc headers are pretty insane < 1236289432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for gcc internals... Ask ais < 1236289434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he worked on them < 1236289441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when me made gcc-bf < 1236289457 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, I'm scared < 1236289463 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for all this icc is still faster :u < 1236289480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex, not on my AMD CPU < 1236289493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex, btw I see one very very stupid thing on http://www.int80h.org/strlen/ < 1236289498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : sub ecx, ecx ; ECX = 0 < 1236289503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is very stupid < 1236289513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone knows xor is the fastest way to zero a register on x86 < 1236289524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xor it with itself < 1236289540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is even specially optimised in some x86 cpus < 1236289554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sub with itself is slower < 1236289571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in some cases < 1236289573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1236289687 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, even I knew to notice that :p < 1236289711 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I still don't know shit about x86 and it seems to me that there's a lot more shit than, say, ARM < 1236289713 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::u < 1236289729 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I know, not risc < 1236289738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex, so I wouldn't trust that page too much. But it looks similar to the glibc implementation for i386... < 1236289762 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why does x86 use push and pop so much anyway? < 1236289764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex, actually modern x86 are RISC on the inside. They run CISC in microcode... < 1236289780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex, register starved. x86 doesn't have a lot of registers < 1236289781 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought I read somewhere that that used to be true but not so much anymore < 1236289788 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why? < 1236289819 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a reason? < 1236289822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex, iirc: 1) making register memory is expensive 2) the original 8086 and even some later models were made to be cheap < 1236289832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86_64 double the register count after all < 1236289849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and you can't add more registers as you go without breaking existing stuff < 1236289858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to the changes needed < 1236289876 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean like x86_64 did :p < 1236289876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not add general purpose ones that is < 1236289893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex, yes it did as I said above. But it did break everything else too by going 64-bit < 1236289898 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why can't arguments be passed in r8-r15 now :u < 1236289906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1236289919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember x86_64 calling convention on the top of my head... < 1236289949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do know some asm, but I'm far from an expert. I prefer high level stuff. Like Scheme. < 1236289960 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scheme is pretty low-level < 1236289967 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :car? cdr? wtf is this bullshit. < 1236289967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, compared to? < 1236289986 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: compared to modern high-level languages like C#. < 1236290009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, car? well the modern world are based on those :P < 1236290021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ducks < 1236290055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I know enough asm and quite a bit of C. And modern glibc uses very optimised routines for stuff like memcpy, strlen, strcpy and so on < 1236290104 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, backwards syntax is annoying < 1236290109 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mov source, dest < 1236290110 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck that < 1236290112 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::u < 1236290128 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in the sense that 'mov source, dest' is backwards.) < 1236290147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex, I prefer AT&T syntax < 1236290169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly I deal with asm as it shows up from objdump < 1236290173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or gcc < 1236290177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't code much in asm < 1236290180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would I < 1236290189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compilers tend to do a great job a lot of the time < 1236290193 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what can I use to assemble x64 anyway < 1236290205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex, well, there is gas < 1236290207 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I guess nasm supports it now < 1236290208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the GNU asm < 1236290214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex, there is yasm < 1236290217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and finally nasm < 1236290222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but gas is best certainly < 1236290223 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...for a year and a half < 1236290227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean it is a nice syntax < 1236290235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to the horrible intel syntax < 1236290244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex, ^ < 1236290298 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i prefer the intel syntax < 1236290325 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's closer to the arm syntax.. which was the first assembly language i really used < 1236290368 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for x86 the at&t syntax is easier to handle by automated tools < 1236290375 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's more verbose < 1236290388 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for coding in it it's too verbose imho < 1236290464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex, I checked other stuff on http://www.int80h.org... the site is utter bullshit in many places. < 1236290470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would recommend not using it < 1236290514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to suggest a syscall convention where you push arguments rather than fill them in the registers is "faster". < 1236290518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is utter bullshit < 1236290552 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no justification for it? < 1236290618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, well it suggests it on freebsd, so I guess it talks about linux emulation layer. But really, use some macro or wrapper to use whatever the system prefers < 1236290632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example linux doesn't use interrupt for system calls nowdays < 1236290633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all < 1236290638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor does freebsd afaik < 1236290660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on recent x86 they both use SYSCALL/SYSRET or SYSENTER/SYSEXIT < 1236290669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of those pairs is for intel, the other for amd < 1236290673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot which was which < 1236290912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case at least the linux kernel injects this with a fake dynamic library on x86 < 1236290928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it decides at boot if it should use the intel one or the amd one < 1236290946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libc then calls this for system calls < 1236290948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very fast < 1236291197 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"..." < 1236292156 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The AMD64 ABI calling convetion does use some of the extra registers for argument-passing; namely it does rdi, rsi, rdx, rcx, r8 and r9 for integer and pointer arguments. More than six function parameters is probably rather rare anyway. < 1236292276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it seems useful if the other ones were kept for local scratch I guess < 1236292289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and more than 6 does happen, but the norm is fewer < 1236292303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also iirc it passes some other stuff in registers too < 1236292310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to an elaborate schem < 1236292312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scheme* < 1236292923 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Abandonando" < 1236294892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:34 AnMaster: comex, that doing stuff like in http://www.int80h.org/strlen/ is counter productive < 1236294897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get it in your head < 1236294900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THIS IS #ESOTERIC < 1236295905 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1236296344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Had to powercycle my machine there; it decided putting the fans on full was an excellent idea. < 1236296350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does that once in a while, I wonder why? < 1236296386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:33:08 http://filebin.ca/qyxpp/ofortuna.mp3 < 1236296389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like it < 1236296907 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My dad is asking me to model a ball of gas in a vacuum held together by gravity at equilibrium. < 1236296928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell him to fuck off. Or, you know, do it. < 1236297030 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But eh. < 1236297203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does he want you to < 1236297311 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yay, constructive feedback <3 < 1236297335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:55 JuanDaugherty: brainfuck is offensive ... as a waste of time and resources < 1236297338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--#haskell < 1236297446 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's on #squeak, #lisp, and #haskell, and he's talking about waste of time and resources? < 1236297452 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pot. kettle. < 1236297473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:57 JuanDaugherty: I didn't say I had a right not to be offended, just that I find it offensive as a concept and a reality < 1236297490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:58 JuanDaugherty: it's to computing like bleeding is to medicine < 1236297503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so ridiculous so funny :DD < 1236297973 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get it < 1236297980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:05 ImInYourMonad: data Pointer x = Cell x (Pointer x) | End x deriving(Show) , that is a a tree, bad rep of a pointer? < 1236297986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate newbies making BF interps badly,. < 1236298150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:09 ImInYourMonad: Gracenotes: ok i had 2 questions in one, 1. should i use Parsec? 2. if i dont, how cna i use < and > for my own purpose? < 1236298158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does he know how to write an interpreter? < 1236298167 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he doesn't know much at all. < 1236298177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: ah, is he an idiot? < 1236298183 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, he's just new < 1236298184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got that impression, wasn't sure. < 1236298189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same thing. < 1236298526 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's in my monad < 1236298673 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perv < 1236298785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:18 tromp_: from 9th instruction on, there's no more appending to the data? < 1236298790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about http://esolangs.org/wiki/BCT#Example < 1236298792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is he right < 1236298793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1236298971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Software was not designed to operate after December 31, 1999" - dmd backendlicense.txt < 1236299687 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236299811 0 :Robdgreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: kudos on your... creation < 1236300272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Robdgreat: Try "abomination" < 1236300367 0 :Robdgreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was being kind < 1236300387 0 :Robdgreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to mention I have a special appreciation for such musical novelties < 1236300405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :abomination is a good thing < 1236300435 0 :Robdgreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1236300519 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you guys suck < 1236300529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: what, I like it < 1236300697 0 :Robdgreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey I like it too < 1236301098 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1236301361 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err that ofortuna thing? < 1236301390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236301394 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see. < 1236301414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only funny if you know what o fortuna is i guess :P < 1236301610 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see. so what is it? < 1236301649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/4/4e/Carl_Orff-Carmina_Burana-O_Fortuna.ogg < 1236301678 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is it funny? < 1236301679 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err yeah i know it's that thing < 1236301695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: I'm pretty sure gregorr was joking when he came up with it < 1236301696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236301698 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just assumed it was something else too because... it's not that funny :P < 1236301707 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i'm pretty sure he wasn't < 1236301719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: GregorR never doesn't joke. < 1236301720 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i'm not sure why it would be funny < 1236301733 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: you're wrong. < 1236304105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :06:07:39 hm, fast integer square root in C... anyone knows anything good? < 1236304107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The quake one. < 1236304113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fast invert square root I think it is called. < 1236305119 0 :CakeProphet!n=seveninc@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1236307722 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't joking. < 1236307725 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do think it would be good. < 1236307746 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although (re: lament) I was thinking more about swing-like lounge (e.g. Sinatra-style), but yeah. < 1236307841 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather, I was joking in that it would obviously be a parody, but I think it would be a good parody :P < 1236309283 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236310130 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1236310431 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1236310910 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-121-158.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236314200 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-8-96.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236314915 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236315921 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1236315992 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-1 interleave 0 makes -2/3 is that correct < 1236316101 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made a unlambda compiler into JavaScript http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/esoteric/unlambda/unlambda/htm but probably some thing are missing, such as continuations called from the outside? < 1236316126 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's pretty important < 1236316176 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I know that, but I'm wondering how that is supposed to be implemented. < 1236316213 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You look at the source-codes and see what you think about that! I tried to make it compatible with many JavaScript interpreters, instead of only modern versions of Mozilla or such thing as that < 1236316218 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: oh, that sort of lounge < 1236316416 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please tell me if you found anything else missing in the Unlambda compiler into JavaScript < 1236316452 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops the URL is wrong it is supposed to be http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/esoteric/unlambda/unlambda.htm < 1236317001 0 :poiuy_qwert!n=poiuyqwe@bas2-toronto47-1279282597.dsl.bell.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1236317342 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oops the URL is wrong it is supposed to be http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/esoteric/unlambda/unlambda.htm < 1236317398 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which you like better Forth or Lisp? < 1236317495 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can I make a continuation called from the outside to be compiled into a Javascript codes < 1236317506 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the best way < 1236317873 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236318182 0 :poiuy_qwert!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1236324854 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236325475 0 :impomatic!n=John@nat66.mia.three.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1236326399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1236326400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1236327043 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"mov.i #1,1" < 1236327925 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Client Excited" < 1236328372 0 :tombom!i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1236331197 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=arvid@smartskola.botkyrka.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236332486 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Relative amount of chatter caused by the noisiest people, at any particular time-of-day (in Finland's timezone, EET/EEST) over the years 2006-2008: http://zem.fi/~fis/test5.png (test6.png for absolute values). < 1236332810 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is interesting is that for most people there's a definite time when they're not talking much (presumably sleeping), but oklopol and oerjan never sleep. < 1236332826 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conclusive proof of their roboticness? You decide. < 1236332923 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236333144 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1236333169 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1236333179 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are the stripes in a different order from the nicks < 1236333237 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-49-61.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236333263 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For reasons of cosmic importance. < 1236333277 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you could have the overall shape be how much talk actually happened. < 1236333287 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the test6.png. < 1236333291 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would probably see me and oerjan are just relatively awake. < 1236333301 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not as good a conclusion. < 1236333306 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right great minds < 1236333346 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems this time is exactly where i need improvement < 1236333355 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i will now flood for 20 minutes straight < 1236333369 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no actually i think i'm gonna buy me something nice -> < 1236333502 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also test7 is actually test5 but with a 30-minute hamming window instead of a 30-minute rectangular window for the activity-estimation. < 1236333859 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-105-42.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236334184 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the newest xkcd crappy too? < 1236334224 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a hard time telling, once i learn to love the characters, anything goes < 1236334384 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236334407 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xkcd is always terribler < 1236334490 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your nick is tasty < 1236334498 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1236334537 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello i'm oklopol i say things that make no sense. < 1236334616 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: could you somehow make test6 show me and oerjan not ever sleeping too? < 1236334628 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i guess i could've used a "never" back there < 1236334653 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: The day before yesterday a speech synthesizer said to me: muskottikukan masennus juustouttaa enteellisesti pikkuisilta. < 1236334682 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a beautiful sentence < 1236334704 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially "muskottikukan masennus" < 1236334715 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: It continued with: Nahistivatko keihäänheittäjät muistioiden tavoin lamatilaa? Ennakkotilausten virkapaikat läiskäyttelevät lupsakkaasti geofysikaalisilta. < 1236334788 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"läiskäyttelevät lupsakkaasti", awesome :D < 1236334817 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lacks some integrity when you combine them tho, although i've seen worse < 1236334820 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supposedly the content was some random nonsense, but maybe there was a personality of some sort involved somewhere. < 1236334855 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway turns out "rektio" isn't "rection" in english, but "case government", at least according to this one online dictionary < 1236334869 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is not good because i had a great erection pun. < 1236334901 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also random content generated by what, where? < 1236334937 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean that's apart from the "case government" errors, that's pretty perfect. < 1236334990 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what generated it; it was just a speech synthesis evaluation test I was asked to listen to and fill. < 1236335012 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well was it good? < 1236335043 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was better than what I thought it would be, but not very natural. < 1236335060 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I kept one of those files at http://www.cis.hut.fi/htkallas/mp3.mp3 < 1236335079 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Since someone on another channel said "mp3s or did not happen".) < 1236335092 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236335120 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the voice sounds pretty natural, just not the... whaddyacallit :) < 1236335176 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's some sort of HMM-based synthesis, where they use the speech recognition speaker adaptation stuff to mangle things so that you can feed it speech, and then the synthesized output will sound like the same person. < 1236335180 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think the main problem is all words are stressed pretty much equally < 1236335190 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i assumed < 1236335216 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that sounds like sampled clips from a real human < 1236335228 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, as far as I know it's actually not. < 1236335234 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except it is still very close to the canonical computer voice < 1236335245 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's would be a clue to the other direction < 1236335277 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: maybe it's recorded clips from a commercial speech synhesizer? < 1236335283 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*synthesizer < 1236335337 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i guess i forgot completely about the shop. < 1236335347 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It shouldn't be concatenative synthesis (i.e. recorded clips) at all. At least in the strict sense of recorded waveforms. Certainly it's based on speech that a real person has spoken, though. < 1236335369 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know the details, it's not my project. I think the web-evaluation was part of the http://www.emime.org/ project. < 1236335390 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that their goal is "personalised speech-to-speech translation, such that the a user’s spoken input in one language < 1236335400 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is used to produce spoken output in another language, while continuing to sound like the user’s voice", at least they don't aim low. < 1236335410 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1236335411 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236335445 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be useful in a movie where bond needs to know armenian. < 1236335484 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway the shop, which i guess would be mcdonalds in this case -> < 1236335744 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236340190 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236340655 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, regarding xkcd. < 1236340674 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If lack of correlation implies lack of causation, then correlation implies causation. < 1236340691 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where "implies" means "suggests" more than "logically requires". < 1236340724 0 :Jophish!n=Jophish@80-47-69-80.lond-hex.dynamic.dial.as9105.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1236340886 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's not true < 1236340907 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least not in any real sense < 1236341249 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-083-061.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1236342247 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1236342347 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : But I'm surprised that the glagolitic capital letter spidery ha was free-for-taking at ..ws. Would have thought someone had already used it. < 1236342362 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o < 1236342819 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : What is interesting is that for most people there's a definite time when they're not talking much (presumably sleeping), but oklopol and oerjan never sleep. < 1236342824 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cackles evilly < 1236342834 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bots don't cackle. < 1236342844 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true that. < 1236342847 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes back to sleep < 1236343041 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, tusho = ehird < 1236343103 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, but a silly Perl script can't be expected to know that sort of stuff. < 1236343160 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the colors on the graph and on the descriptions don't match < 1236343201 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm oklopol already implied that < 1236343232 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure they do, they're just in a different-ish order. Namely, reversed. < 1236343272 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except "Others" < 1236343275 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it's an iq test to know whether the colors or the nicks are out of order < 1236343303 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume Others is really at the bottom :D < 1236343318 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you must know, the ordering is such that all "others" go to an array index 0, while array indices 1..N correspond to the top-N noisiest people, with index 1 being the noisiest; then I draw indices 0..N from bottom to top, but the nick-list in the "sensible order" for indices 1..N, and then 'Others' separately just so that it doesn't look like a nickname. < 1236343373 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but should i trust the colors or the order? < 1236343378 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The colors. < 1236343380 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trust the colors. < 1236343380 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :colors < 1236343387 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, the colors. < 1236343396 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trust them < 1236343437 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Green is not an enemy, like a well-known Windows media-player vizualization name says. Or something like that, anyway; I just remember the Finnish translation. < 1236343452 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("Vihreä ei ole vihollinen.") < 1236343574 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually the absolute graph shows that oklopol and i are not really constant, we just are in phase with the channel. < 1236343615 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then so is everyone to a degree < 1236343632 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it seems to have confused a lot of people, I just flipped the nickname ordering to match the colors. (Unfortunately at the same time I got the more curvaceous hamming-windowed graphs there.) < 1236343731 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course evil rumors will claim that we still have completely messed up sleeping rhythms. < 1236343766 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. I, myself, prefer not sleeping. < 1236343770 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;p < 1236343848 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: wait a minute, by the graph you are not supposed to be here now < 1236343850 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :While at it, I special-cased ehird and tusho together, so they passed anmaster and achieved the coveted red graph-color. < 1236343895 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which gave bsmntbombdood a slot, i see < 1236343911 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and his shape is rather different from the others. < 1236343913 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I screw things up by talking at truly random times. < 1236343921 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, unless you count "Others". < 1236343954 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i say we ban that "Others" guy for constantly spamming < 1236343971 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I concur. < 1236344068 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Your script was set up based on who talked most in here? Nice work... < 1236344178 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I'm surprised to see that I still register on that... I've not exactly talked that much in here recently. < 1236344199 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 2006-2008 < 1236344205 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1236344223 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, then. < 1236344246 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want some raw underlying numbers, http://zem.fi/~fis/test5.txt has the total-number-of-lines-in-my-2006-2008-logs. < 1236344275 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can just take #9 and largers ranks to know who to ban to get rid of that annoying "Others" guy. < 1236344306 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gleefuly bans GregorR. < 1236344337 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fizzie, too. < 1236344349 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : this is not good because i had a great erection pun. < 1236344358 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. < 1236344364 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finns are not allowed to do that, only japanese < 1236344408 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: are you shocked and disturbed? < 1236344411 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to consume breakfast, for he has stayed up for it < 1236344592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : While at it, I special-cased ehird and tusho together, so they passed anmaster and achieved the coveted red graph-color. <-- ? < 1236344594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :context? < 1236344610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 21:34 AnMaster: comex, that doing stuff like in http://www.int80h.org/strlen/ is counter productive < 1236344610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : get it in your head < 1236344610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : THIS IS #ESOTERIC <-- sure < 1236344622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but he seemed to actually want to optimise < 1236344640 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Context was http://zem.fi/~fis/test5.png < 1236344663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236344676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so you combined ehird/tusho. Ok < 1236344687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what has that got to do with me < 1236344699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ that graph is cool < 1236344712 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You used to have the red color; since the nick-list is sorted by the total number of lines seen in the analyzed logs. < 1236344725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the scale 0-24: what does it mean? < 1236344741 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hours; it's a time-of-day thing. Hours in EET/EEST, specifically. < 1236344762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, this is average over day during a period of x months? < 1236344784 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :During the years 2006-2008, yes. < 1236344787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1236344805 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, sum, not average, but it's about the same thing since I still haven't added any Y axis scale in there. < 1236344810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense then. Was wondering why some of us were a lot quieter during some months first. < 1236344811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1236344846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what about you, you are in "others"? < 1236344858 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a well known fact that we nordics hibernate during winter. < 1236344879 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, his data were removed for security < 1236344891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, the scale was 0-24, that would imply a 2 year period. and there was only one such point with less activity < 1236344899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that wouldn't make a lot of sense < 1236344901 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I'm deep down in the others, #17; that's in test5.txt at the same directory. < 1236344921 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah but one of the winters was particularly hot < 1236344936 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :global warming destroying our traditions! < 1236344946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm bsmnt would have the largest line count? < 1236344953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or how do you mean it is sorted? < 1236344972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, oh right < 1236345003 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the colored strips are drawn from bottom-to-top, so I had to flip the nick list ordering from the natural one to match that. So ehird talks the most, you're second, and so on. < 1236345009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236345028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like oklopol have about same activity all the time? < 1236345044 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I made a half-hearted joke-attempt about that (and oerjan) already. < 1236345058 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also test6.png which has the absolute counts, not relative, if you want to see the actual shape of combined activity. < 1236345082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236345086 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems my uni career is starting a steep downhill slope. < 1236345094 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i almost failed another course today :| < 1236345095 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That test5 is more of a "relative percentage of all channel activity at that time of day" thing. < 1236345112 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Another of your "almost didn't get a 5" failures? < 1236345119 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes :< < 1236345162 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i got an email this morning that it was 4/5 because i had explained simulated annealing vaguely, which is a given, because it's a trivial concept. < 1236345188 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, later, i got another email saying he reread it and decided it was a 5/5 < 1236345200 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-54-59.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236345202 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was a close call < 1236345210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1236345220 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a slippery slope < 1236345240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I don't know how your system works in Finland, but what is the lowest score for passed? < 1236345257 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :40%-50% < 1236345268 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think that's a pretty standard university scale < 1236345301 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the score above passing is then interpolated onto 1-5 < 1236345311 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in our system < 1236345345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth < 1236345349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my mouse gone mad < 1236345364 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :come sane mousie! < 1236345364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at some locations at the table it wiggles on screen < 1236345376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, move 1-2 pixels up/down randomly < 1236345383 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes my mouse does the craziest things < 1236345386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though I'm not touching it < 1236345392 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then i realize my left thumb is on the pad < 1236345394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at other positions on the table it works fine < 1236345400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I don't use a laptop < 1236345403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not likely < 1236345407 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither does my mom < 1236345409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no touchpad here < 1236345410 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no wait, she does < 1236345418 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's the total channel-activity from 2003 to end-of-2008, with "one pixel == one day" X axis scale, and Y values taken from line counts in a 30-day surrounding window: http://zem.fi/~fis/test8.png < 1236345431 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236345455 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :30 days sounds a bit much, is it at least biased? < 1236345467 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay < 1236345477 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :peaks are very visible so i guess it's fine < 1236345491 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's just a square window; I left my hamming window in another script. :p (The one doing time-of-day graphs.) < 1236345527 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that's a hamming window? < 1236345562 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236345563 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*what's < 1236345617 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that's a hamming window < 1236345631 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i might've been able to guess it was < 1236345643 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the "that's" was because i did know < 1236345668 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: your momma so fat, she uses a desktop for her laptop < 1236345677 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD < 1236345777 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: could you perhaps make it show more nicks? i mean the pre-me's are pretty gray. < 1236345785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, "and Y values taken from line counts in a 30-day surrounding window" <-- I haven't taken any course in statistics, so what is the reason for that? < 1236345797 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably that it'd be more smooth. < 1236345815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what is test7? < 1236345825 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's test5 < 1236345827 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but smoother < 1236345838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with separate tusho < 1236345839 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1236345840 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236345845 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1236345869 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either 5 was changed, or i'm seeing things again < 1236345872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not only that I think < 1236345886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, maybe different source data span? < 1236345888 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I accidentally updated test5 with the smoother-looking Hamming window stuff when combining tusho and ehird. < 1236345895 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other than that it should be the same stuff. < 1236345923 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, the windowing is for smoothing; typically per-day activity varies quite a lot. < 1236345942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, test.png? < 1236345943 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from this graph we deduce that AnMaster has been present here all since 2003, although he didn't talk that much < 1236345950 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1236345964 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i was too polite to say that < 1236345968 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Making him quite possibly the oldest regular. < 1236345971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I was an idler in the beginning, but I don't think since 2003. more like 2005 < 1236345976 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1236345979 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olkopol: test8h.png has that Hamming window. < 1236345985 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought it was just an anomaly. < 1236345990 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things really exploded recently, it looks like. < 1236345993 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is also an anomaly. < 1236345994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably is < 1236345999 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what caused that. < 1236346010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LHC? < 1236346013 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird? < 1236346020 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : with separate tusho < 1236346033 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try #esoteric. Now with separate tusho included! < 1236346042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I haven't been here since 2003 < 1236346046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had dialup in 2003 iirc < 1236346053 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: MORE NICKS!! < 1236346056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got adsl during 2005 or so < 1236346064 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So did I. Didn't stop me from being on IRC since '98. < 1236346067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and started using freenode during 2006 < 1236346074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or around there < 1236346075 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i demand oklo* be counted as me. < 1236346078 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and I was 8 at the time. *8*.) < 1236346079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe in late 2005 < 1236346082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 100% sure < 1236346105 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I couldn't figure out more suitably different colors, so that's why there are so few nicks. < 1236346115 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i like your "look how geeky i am!" attitude :D < 1236346138 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bweheheh. < 1236346152 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God, I did a lot in '98. < 1236346162 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :list < 1236346169 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That same year, I got into science fiction, programming, and got my current nickname... < 1236346200 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: there are algorithms for that < 1236346225 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i was 8, i just had sex and did drugs < 1236346226 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also met my best friend & current roommate via the Internet... < 1236346237 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That same year. < 1236346240 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the one you've never talked to? < 1236346246 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236346255 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: No. I moved in with my current roommate ASAP. < 1236346256 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be a cool best friend < 1236346258 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember what test.png was, possibly 2009 jan-feb with some parameters; test2 is test but with absolute counts instead of relative; test3 doesn't exist; test4 is a query of mine; and then we enter the current testX range. < 1236346264 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I < 1236346277 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've talked with *him* on a near-daily basis ever since meeting him. < 1236346319 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: i hope he's a real geek too, because you're losing your geekiness points as we speak. < 1236346349 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He implemented Dimensifuck. < 1236346355 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah okay, then i guess it's fine < 1236346367 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And is a far better coder than I. < 1236346420 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also is he here? < 1236346428 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my memory is too fuzzy < 1236346431 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, though he's shown up a couple of times. < 1236346441 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He doesn't IRC much. < 1236346452 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i didn't either < 1236346472 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...then maybe i wouldn't fail so much at uni < 1236346489 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION actually laughs at xkcd, despite what you said < 1236346503 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i liked it < 1236346529 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw do you like me bragging about my uni stuff? i first decided to keep it to myself, but then i thought maybe this would fit my irc character better) < 1236346539 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i'm open for requests) < 1236346623 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe i'll do it every now and then. everyone likes a random fluctuation. < 1236346683 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :email.png is a really complicated MIME message I once received; eso.png is some sort of old gnuplot activity graph, maybe; font00l.png and font00h.png is a small bitmap font; http://zem.fi/~fis/moves.png is a distribution of game lengths of a board game AI tournament; screen.png is my screen status-line; ti86.png would have a long explanation; tmp.png is fungot source. < 1236346683 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: works for me too, < 1236346708 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Yes, I'd assume your source would "work for you". < 1236346747 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why did I repeat the URL for moves.png? That was completely accidental. < 1236346755 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants long explanation 8| < 1236346769 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, seriously? < 1236346776 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well duh < 1236346779 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to know everything < 1236346797 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, uh... let's see if I can find the other, accompanying picture first. < 1236346823 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a hard time not asking personal questions from each and everyone here all the time, and you think i don't want to hear a spänking story < 1236346849 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: silent all of a sudden? < 1236346850 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's actually the name egg is so cute about japanese culture ( and product packaging) is the basis library. i want to < 1236346854 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"..." < 1236346903 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is fungot doing!! < 1236346904 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tombom: differ for understanding that line of thought. primarily to encourage ordered thoughts about things like rfc 822 address parsing, spool handling, etc.) < 1236346910 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION now wishes he had a spänking story to tell < 1236346969 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: http://zem.fi/~fis/slide3pic3.jpg is the accompanying picture. < 1236346989 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Do you still want the story too? < 1236347014 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1236347016 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh definitely < 1236347065 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the heck is spank anyway? < 1236347070 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*spänk < 1236347081 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so we have this university course S-89.3510 "SignaaliProsessorit ja ÄäneNKäsittely" (transl: "DSPs and sound processing"), colloquially called "SPÄNK". < 1236347126 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The main project-work of the course is to take one of the DSP dev-kits we have, and write some code on it; there's a list of preselected topics that are allocated with some scheme I've already forgotten. < 1236347175 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In any case, our topic was a DSP-based echo effect box. However, course grade is partially based on how impressive a demonstration you can make for your project for a demo-day event arranged at the end of the course. < 1236347209 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: also "spänk" is how you pronounce "spank", if that wasn't obvious < 1236347235 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since we couldn't think of anything very impressive to do with an echo box, we decided to rig a TI-86 calculator to the DSP board so that you can, in real-time, control the echo effect parameters using the calculator. < 1236347271 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ti86.png is a screenshot of the control app; I don't really remember what the sliders do, but probably they adjust some delays and amplification constants. < 1236347277 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god i'm an idiot < 1236347313 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course they are sliders, the numbers are a direct giveaway < 1236347318 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in slide3pic3.jpg we're trying to make the damn thing to work; at the left side there is an oscilloscope, that's how desperate we were. < 1236347380 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The DSP board had a really really advanced programmable serial input controller thing; on the other hand, in the TI-86 there's just two wires you can toggle really slowly. They weren't exactly designed to be interfaced together. < 1236347401 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1236347406 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and we spent about three days fiddling with it before it turned out that the speaker cable I had cannibalized for this use was faulty. < 1236347451 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a TI TMS320VC5416 DSP chip on that board in the picture. < 1236347483 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When you press the enter key in the calculator, it shows a spiffy little animation about the whip spanking, and uploads the slider positions. < 1236347504 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We had a webcam connected to my laptop, and the laptop connected to a projector, so we could demo out the calculator controls. < 1236347553 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Didn't it have an image of the chip next to the whip? < 1236347690 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: Hmm, maybe? I don't have a screenshot of it, just the z80 source code where the picture is given with .db pseudo-instructions. < 1236347725 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly what was missing here was a _real_ whip as input device. < 1236347743 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmh. Wii Whip. < 1236347749 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: You might be right, since the images have symbolic names TextImage, WhipImage and ProcessorImage. < 1236347751 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interesting game ideas. < 1236347779 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think the processor image was taken from the slides. < 1236347821 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: They had that nice SPNK-logo in the corner. < 1236347845 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: How do you remember this stuff? < 1236347871 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I don't know. I only seem to remember some random collection of trivialities and none of the important stuff. < 1236347878 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-027-168.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1236347920 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: https://noppa.tkk.fi/noppa/kurssi/s-89.3510/luennot/esittely.pdf < 1236348125 0 :nice!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-027-168.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1236348153 0 :nice!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :nice_ka < 1236348162 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: Right you are. I dumped the picture with a bit of Perl: http://www.cis.hut.fi/htkallas/processor.txt < 1236348190 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ineiros: the seventh archduke of sachsen-coburg-gotha had the same problem < 1236348246 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there was that "AAH!" added. < 1236348264 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Haha. < 1236348487 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The lecturer was quite spanking-oriented, if I recall right. < 1236348655 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Do you have a reference for that, sounds like an interesting piece of trivia? :P < 1236348792 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, Wikipedia page of "Saxe-Coburg and Gotha" gives the place a population density of: Expression error: Unrecognised punctuation character "," /km² (Expression error: Unrecognised punctuation character "," /sq mi) < 1236348894 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236349127 0 :nice_ka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236349279 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, so: out of the four sliders, sliders 1 and 2 control the gains of the comb filters (basically amount of echoing and the style of it), slider 3 is the ratio between direct pass-through sound and echo-effecty, and slider 4 controls the frequency of the four blinking leds on the DSP board, which do the usual 1, 2, 3, 4, 3, 2, 1, 2, ... blink sequence. < 1236349289 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we ran out of ideas there for the fourth slider. < 1236349331 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The DSP board has four dip-switches and four leds for primitive IO, but we didn't want to limit ourselves to that, hence the whole TI-86 control thing.) < 1236349615 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, you had to go and remind me of one of the few courses here where you really got your hands dirty. Figuratively speaking, of course. < 1236349635 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1236349685 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also one of the few courses where an oscilloscope is involved. < 1236349701 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there is a severe lack of oscilloscopes in the computer science curriculum. < 1236349713 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Want to come and play with my oscilloscope some day?-) < 1236349727 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can you make even an oscilloscope sound dirty? < 1236349752 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact I did think about building something where a 'scope might've been handy; but then I remembered I suck at all electronicsy stuff. < 1236349754 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a skill. < 1236349773 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to build a small robot one day. < 1236349786 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One day I went to school but their oscilloscopes was broken so I haven't use a oscilloscopes. And I don't own one < 1236349845 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you bit interleave negative and positive numbers together? It seems to me I could do -1 interleave 0 makes -2/3 but I'm unsure < 1236349916 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine goes to waste too, since I don't use it. I kind-of inherited it. I suck at electronics as well. < 1236349928 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you have so many pictures on /~fis/ to list then why don't you enable directory listing, or at least make a list manually < 1236349977 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I probably should just clean up that directory more oftener than once every three years or so. < 1236349999 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I skipped the more uninteresting ones from that previous listing, too. < 1236350083 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And listed only the .png files. < 1236350110 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could alo make subdirectories for multiple listing of images, for category or just by timing or whatever you want, I do that on my computer at /IMAGES/ /IMAGES2/ /IMAGES3/ /img4/ /img5/ /img6/ /img7/ /img8/ /img_09/ /img_0A/ /img_0B/ /img_0C/ /img_0D/ < 1236350192 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of the stuff I stick directly at ~fis/ are "hey, look at this" sort of pictures for IRC use, not really for long-term storage. < 1236350241 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1236350460 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, and I am interested your opinion of the program I wrote compiling Unlambda to JavaScript. < 1236350554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: does it handle d? < 1236350639 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it handles d, look at http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/esoteric/unlambda/unlambda.htm < 1236350656 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And view the source-code of that HTML page to see the JavaScript codes < 1236350670 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there anything missing from my handling of d? < 1236350754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers a single assignment, non-functional, infinite state, sub-tc language < 1236350773 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't implemented c entirely yet. I'm still trying to think how to do that. If you have any suggestion please type it on here < 1236350940 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So far if you try to run a program that uses continuations you will just see a alert box that says "[object Object]" in it. That is the continuation object being thrown with nothing to catch it < 1236350948 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: if javascript doesn't have real continuations then you probably are not going to get around rewriting everything in cps style < 1236351046 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did call/cc in my Scheme-in-Prolog simply by doing the interpreter in CPS, but it felt somehow too simple. < 1236351048 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and using a trampoline or something if it doesn't have proper tail calls either < 1236351060 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another idea I had is if the thrown continuation object is not caught by the c function it should try the program over again but keep track of which c function that continuation is for so it can return something else next time < 1236351166 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how well my idea would work, though. < 1236351187 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to think if there is a better way to throw back < 1236351249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, will jitfunge implement IMAP? < 1236351291 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think so, no. I'm currently again in the hibernationary "collecting motivation" stage re jitfunge. < 1236351305 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where can I find your Scheme-in-Prolog < 1236351361 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: that idea sounds evil, so it would be awesome _if_ it worked, but i think you could get trouble if there were may throws and catches to rerun before you got to the right point. < 1236351365 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*many < 1236351424 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I was worried about < 1236351522 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There seems to be something called jwacs, which is a compiler from javascript-with-first-class-continuation-syntax into plain-old-javascript; I'm haven't looked at all how complicatedly it's implemented. < 1236351605 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't seem to understand my own Prolog code any more. ps_apply_builtin(callcc, Args, K, E, SE) :- !, ps_aritycheck(1, Args, 'call/cc'), Args = [Proc], !, ps_apply(k(apply, E, SE, Proc, [cont(K)], K), void). < 1236351616 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe single-letter-names weren't the way to go. < 1236351672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, download? < 1236351753 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the Prolog-Scheme? < 1236351760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236351766 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, for your waffle recipe < 1236351771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236351809 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i blame ehird for rubbing off on me < 1236351846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You cannot use exceptions for continuations. < 1236351865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exceptions are a special case of downwards-only continuations < 1236351882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err, don't you mean upward only? < 1236351891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Downward. < 1236351919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, I see what you mean < 1236351921 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that, that is why I was wondering how to do continuations the other way, because currently it works only one way and many Unlambda programs use it the other way also < 1236351932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: btw, Erlang has GC that runs in parallel with the mutator, iirc < 1236351949 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If you promise not to laugh, you can download the manual at http://zem.fi/~fis/plscheme.pdf and the documentation at http://zem.fi/~fis/plscheme.tar.gz -- but it was pretty much my first (and only) Prolog program, so it's not pretty. < 1236351959 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, s/documentation/code/ < 1236351975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cis.hut.fi/htkallas/mp3.mp3 <- this is awful < 1236351984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not sure about that, however each erlang process has it's own heap. Certain large objects (binaries) are stored in a shared heap, and they are reference counted. < 1236351995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I'm fairly sure because I saw it on reddit. < 1236352005 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so old that when you wrote it you thought code was documentation < 1236352021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, it might be true. I haven't had any reason to dig in the details of the erlang GC yet. < 1236352055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so where on redit was it? < 1236352056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236352058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reddit* < 1236352091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/82do0/i_no_longer_hate_lisp/c082ihm < 1236352101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: the only other way is CPS, for JS < 1236352122 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a brainfuck interpreter (as a Scheme test-case) in that plscheme thing. < 1236352124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, wait < 1236352130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: he's just saying that other threads can keep running < 1236352144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1236352148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, I guess I should write a concurrent, parallel generational GC, since nobody else wants to apart from Sun. < 1236352156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is because each process has it's own heap. < 1236352160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even Sun doesn't do it fully; they pause for a little bit to do some bookkeeping < 1236352164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although most of the gc is concurrent) < 1236352211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there were experiments with a shared heap, but that ran into issues with the SMP support, and it turned out the current model worked better _and_ was easier to understand/maintain < 1236352241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a purely-functional, shared-nothing language is more applicable to this kind of thing < 1236352271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you know a lot more about how it mutates (specifically, the code doesn't mutate, just the runtime, unless a "copy-and-remove-old-one" was optimized to a mutation) < 1236352386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is this a quote from somewhere? < 1236352400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I was talking < 1236352413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1236352488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about mutating, I don't think code is mutated. Certain operations are optimised into mutations, like appending to a list if the compiler can prove it isn't used in ways that would break that. < 1236352514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, what are you talking about> < 1236352522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can tell nothing related to what I said < 1236352523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erlang. weren't you? < 1236352526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1236352529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1236352576 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Ask Eliezer Yudkovski about code mutation" < 1236352583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's yudkowsky < 1236352638 0 :FireFly!n=firefly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236352863 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"DSOrganize IRC" < 1236352945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, anyone know a good tutorial and/or introduction to abstract syntax trees. < 1236352966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the internet that is < 1236353024 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do the people on here have any preferences about Lisp or Forth < 1236353033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: I like both. < 1236353043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: err, they're just any data structure you want. < 1236353055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like AST = Add AST AST | Name String | FunctionCall AST [AST] < 1236353063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236353103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so bf code as a single linked list with down links for [ that points to the stuff in the loop would be an AST? < 1236353131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF = Left|Right|Add|Subtract|Input|Output|Loop [BF] < 1236353135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then use [BF] to represent a program < 1236353137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :([] = list) < 1236353160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236353214 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just use yield command in JavaScript to represent the input command in brainfuck. But the yield command is a new version of JavaScript only on Mozilla but that's OK because it is built-in to a XULrunner applocation. From this, you can learn how to write your own brainfuck compiler < 1236353301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236353305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that related? < 1236353319 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1236353326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1236353373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's zzo38, don't question him :D < 1236353386 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that Brainfuck was perhaps the simplest language to compile... < 1236353400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, it is certainly one of the simpler ones < 1236353400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Iota is easier. < 1236353409 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, really. I could implement it in sed. < 1236353418 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Mmm... True enough. < 1236353421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/*/`/; s/i/(the ski form of \x.xSK)/; < 1236353426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to unlambda, of course. < 1236353440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : <- brainfuck to brainfuck compiler < 1236353451 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heheheh. < 1236353463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. It all depends on what the target you compile to is < 1236353470 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : <- x to x compiler. < 1236353546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what about compiling to x86 machine code? < 1236353588 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Requires a tiny bit of effort. < 1236353598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What, iota to x86? < 1236353604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure asm to machine code (which is "assemble", rather than "compile", but you could consider it a variant of compiling), or machine code to itself are easiest, but apart from those < 1236353604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's hard, pikhq. :P < 1236353608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need a freaking garbage collecotr... < 1236353619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it could just be a refcounter, but still. < 1236353622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, first class functions. < 1236353629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And whatnot, soforth, hathit. < 1236353639 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you meant Brainfuck to x86. < 1236353646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, which would be the easiest esolang to compile to x86 machine code < 1236353648 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Iota to x86 is somewhat tricky. < 1236353661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: x86 machine code < 1236353668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, " sure asm to machine code (which is "assemble", rather than "compile", but you could consider it a variant of compiling), or machine code to itself are easiest, but apart from those" < 1236353669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1236353693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assembling is compiling, not a variant on compiling < 1236353774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, call it whatever you want < 1236353781 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's call it George < 1236353786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1236353789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to george my program now. < 1236353796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question remains. I'd say bf is one of the easier ones to compile to x86 machine code < 1236353805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are probably other easy ones < 1236353824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck without - < 1236353827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or , < 1236353828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or . < 1236353852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boolfuck without , or < 1236353852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1236353859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, or ; < 1236353873 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :False isn't probably too difficult either, given that the stated purpose was to get a tiny compiler. < 1236353883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it has first class functions < 1236354018 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=arvid@smartskola.botkyrka.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236354056 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not very difficult, since there seem to be no closures, just global variables and a stack. Well, based on a *really* quick peek at the documentation. < 1236354074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stil < 1236354075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :l < 1236354103 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, it's not as simple as brainfuck. < 1236354108 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But simpler than Scheme. :p < 1236355063 0 :Hiato!n=1@dsl-245-24-250.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1236355443 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236355790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/badastronomy/2009/03/05/illinois-plutocrats/ < 1236355800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pluto is a planet, if by planet you mean planet in Illinois. < 1236355925 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Planet-like objects outside of the local solar system, however, are not. < 1236356098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2009/03/richard_dawkins_banned_in_okla.php lol < 1236356540 0 :impomatic!n=John@nat67.mia.three.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1236356750 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely I never imagined that I would start to learn vim controls < 1236356764 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when trying to play nethack. < 1236356772 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can anyone recommend a cheap development board? < 1236356794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: development board/ < 1236356899 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@smartskola.botkyrka.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236357045 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any processor? < 1236357053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: ? < 1236357090 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't mind about the processor at this stage, just something cheap to play with < 1236357128 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: a processor on a board. Normally you can connect by RS232 or USB to program it. < 1236357133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arduino < 1236357136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1236357835 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236357837 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236357961 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-54-59.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236357961 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1236358180 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@cpc2-stkn13-2-0-cust73.11-2.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1236358643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: arduino? < 1236358955 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, didn't realise what arduino meant! Looking it up now < 1236359002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impomatic: it uses a variant of Processing to program it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Arduino_IDE_-_v0011_Alpha.png < 1236359028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.adafruit.com/index.php?main_page=product_info&products_id=68a <-- arduino starter pack < 1236359079 0 :Asztal^_^!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236359106 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the kind of thing I've after. Have you used one? < 1236359114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope, although I'd like to. < 1236359122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've only heard good things about it, though. < 1236359306 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to implement an interactive language on the microcontroller, then use my PC as a terminal < 1236359324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forth would be good for that < 1236359380 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, you should have done it on wednesday < 1236359496 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of Forth as a first project < 1236359629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fjölnir_programming_language < 1236359738 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what's with you and Forth these days :-P < 1236359762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, I just started implementing forth a few days ago, and forth _is_ good for interactive dev on embedded systems < 1236359774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38 asked me about forth for some reason, not triggered by me < 1236359785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think forth is a good language for general use < 1236359787 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I've just timed my viewings of this channel poorly < 1236359825 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just seemed to me that you'd been plugging Forth almost every time you said anything :-P < 1236359865 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I just finished developing Forth in Redcode :-) < 1236359908 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remind me how you did I/O < 1236359918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exmars extension < 1236359924 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1236360570 0 :doudou!n=chatzill@soy95-4-82-243-154-206.fbx.proxad.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236360593 0 :doudou!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :SainteSophie < 1236360708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi SainteSophie < 1236360716 0 :SainteSophie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1236360724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't seen your name in here before < 1236360726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what brings you here? < 1236360728 0 :SainteSophie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nop < 1236360733 0 :SainteSophie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :errr < 1236360754 0 :SainteSophie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to konw more about esoteric langagues < 1236360762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a good reason as any :P < 1236360764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1236360765 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have come to the right place < 1236360770 0 :SainteSophie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1236360771 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also for hardcore pornography < 1236360775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ignore Slereah. < 1236360776 0 :SainteSophie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1236360778 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you want any? < 1236360786 0 :SainteSophie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION bites Slereah < 1236360793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get a room you two < 1236360800 0 :SainteSophie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no thanks < 1236360825 0 :SainteSophie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am learn C and Java < 1236360837 0 :SainteSophie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236360845 0 :SainteSophie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I learn C and Java < 1236360856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I'm learning", you mean < 1236360867 0 :SainteSophie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236360871 0 :SainteSophie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm french :s < 1236360887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is Slereah and m0ny. french people are _almost_ as esoteric as finns < 1236360904 0 :SainteSophie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1236360959 0 :SainteSophie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ho yeah, Sle.reah has Wanadoo < 1236361113 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sure do < 1236361183 0 :SainteSophie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know where I wan lean more about Obfuscated C Code ? < 1236361220 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ioccc.org/ < 1236361367 0 :SainteSophie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1236361646 0 :SainteSophie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazing... < 1236363375 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Peace and Protection 4.22.2" < 1236363654 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@e-72.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1236364832 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236365136 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1236365651 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1236365863 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@cpc2-stkn13-2-0-cust73.11-2.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1236367668 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who highlighted me < 1236367820 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pasted some channel-activity graph-plots. < 1236367828 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, and they got a bit wild < 1236367833 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you were mentioned, since your name is in there. < 1236367836 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :started highlighting people < 1236367839 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link < 1236367851 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zem.fi/~fis/test5.png for example. < 1236367858 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the time-of-the-day activity one. < 1236367887 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or relative-activity, anyway; test6 was the absolute-activity one. < 1236367939 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooh nice graph < 1236367995 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The numbers are for my local time zone, EET/EEST. < 1236368107 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did you make those? < 1236368246 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1236368318 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a custom Perl script that uses GD.pm to draw. < 1236368613 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so when is test9 coming? < 1236368624 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't live without my daily graph < 1236368637 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't you already get some for today? < 1236368642 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :script it < 1236368654 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe a *real* graph this time < 1236368694 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well yeah i guess i should wait till tomorrow, you update at midnight right? < 1236368700 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did some graphviz graphs about "people who seem to be conversing together on channel" relationships. < 1236368708 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uuhhh < 1236368713 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GIVEGIVE < 1236368739 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err can you tell graphviz to stack two nodes close to each other? < 1236368749 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"stack" < 1236368758 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like medandulate < 1236368764 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I can find them. It wasn't very clever about conversations, just " othernick:", and the results weren't very intelligent. < 1236368778 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i see. < 1236368795 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've seen something that does that < 1236368810 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've heard of ppl doing that, but never actually seen it < 1236368837 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graphviz layouts are more or less tweakable, yes, depending on the layout engine you use. For the force/string-based ones I think you can affect the edge lengths, but those do messy graphs unless you use one of the node-overlap-removal options, maybe even with that. < 1236368862 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I have time for a graph right now, I have something else to write. < 1236368963 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure you do? < 1236368983 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, because I'm actually writing something else right now. < 1236369043 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's a common source of surity. < 1236369191 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, well, unless you had some sort of graph you wanted to see and which wouldn't be too complicated to draw. < 1236369207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: make a graph of, um < 1236369215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the relation to people's activeness <-> channel activeness < 1236369221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we can find the people who only talk when nobody's listening. < 1236369225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from clog./ < 1236369235 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact i was going to success exactly that "people who seem to be conversing together on channel" relationships thing < 1236369273 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236369278 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :success? xD < 1236369299 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. Well, I guess I might try to generate some graphviz sources and see what it spews out. < 1236369302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: er hasn't he done that < 1236369306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: if not, he can do both < 1236369314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by symbolising the channel activity AS A PERSON < 1236369316 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i haven't seen even one real graph yet < 1236369396 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the graph I did was in the demi web-forum thing. < 1236369426 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i don't know the culture of it < 1236369436 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, and the "conversation detector" was even *more* unadvanced, since it flagged as 'conversation' everything where someone's nickname appeared in someone else's message. < 1236369447 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that one guy with the nick "se" was just about everyone's friend. < 1236369454 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1236369470 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to find any .dot files I may have right now. < 1236369532 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh no, it was "mutta" and "minä" who were everyone's friends. < 1236369555 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zem.fi/~fis/demi.png < 1236369584 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I did any (or much, anyway) graphviz layout-tweaking for that one. < 1236369587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOO MANY FUCKING PEOPLE < 1236369593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TOO MANY PEOPLE FUCKING < 1236369595 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't actually think graph is actually the right term... < 1236369601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: chart < 1236369607 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh lawd < 1236369612 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i basically want balls to be closer to each other if they talk at the same time < 1236369615 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no < 1236369631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: do balls touch if they are never apart < 1236369651 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like ND -> 2D, approximately preserving distances < 1236369660 0 :SainteSophie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1236369664 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I could do something like that with a self-organizing map, maybe. < 1236369687 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Our lab is very fond of SOMs, since Teuvo Kohonen still sort-of works there. < 1236369779 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :time for work < 1236369783 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, btw what kinda research do you do in helsinki? probably all kindsa stuff but i mean like what's the average subject of research < 1236369800 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're in Espoo, not in Helsinki. < 1236369801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they sink hells < 1236369836 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The five-point list at http://www.cis.hut.fi/research/ is the most summarized statement of our lab-work. < 1236369837 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean do you have lots of ai? afaiu we have mathematical esolanging, coding theory and practical algorithmics here < 1236369841 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236369845 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :espoo, k < 1236369887 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there's much traditional-AI research going on; certainly not among our "information science" people. < 1236369938 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me all those look quite ai-ish < 1236369974 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or nowadays we're officially part of the same depeartment as the former theoretical computer science lab; they do logic-programming-related stuff, crypto-things, model-checking and stuff like that. < 1236369985 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again i've been reading about ai for the last three days < 1236370001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh oh, oklopol writing an ai? < 1236370019 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's my other main interest < 1236370024 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Time to enjoy your last few days as a member of the dominant species. < 1236370031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeppers. < 1236370049 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm still not entirely sure what i want to do most < 1236370053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone call up kurzweil and yudkowsky, I'm going underground < 1236370058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1236370064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<- < 1236370065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ps < 1236370065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love you guys < 1236370067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1236370074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<- < 1236370076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except you oklopol < 1236370077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1236370080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<- < 1236370081 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh :< < 1236370082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now really, bye < 1236370084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1236370088 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and here i was like yay < 1236370091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<- < 1236370099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: i will forgive you if you don't write an evil ai. < 1236370102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1236370118 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe i could write a nice one first and see where it gets me? < 1236370126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<- < 1236370127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define 'nice' < 1236370151 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you know one you can tell about your feelings and who gives you hugs < 1236370174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it Friendly(TM)(C)(R) < 1236370229 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a lot of uppercase letters in parens. < 1236370244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :answer my question I have a bunker to make < 1236370296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol! < 1236370379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1236370390 0 :asiekierk!i=africalo@078088180066.elb.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1236370392 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1236370396 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well okay, i will request Friendly status for version 1. < 1236370398 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't here for a freaking long time < 1236370403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<- < 1236370408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a newfound reason to go to my bunker! < 1236370409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1236370410 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless there's a lot of testing involved < 1236370417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<- < 1236370430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think testing an AI before you've proved it's Friendly defeats the point < 1236370431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1236370431 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello asiekierk, you seem to have lost an a < 1236370437 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :asiekierka < 1236370439 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION glues the "a" < 1236370441 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: What are you doing? < 1236370446 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: lol indeed i guess :D < 1236370457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<- < 1236370459 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: trying to read, but, err, ircing. < 1236370461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: destroying humanity. < 1236370468 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh! He's making an evil AI! < 1236370479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: < 1236370481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if < 1236370482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you < 1236370483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say < 1236370485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glados < 1236370487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I < 1236370489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will < 1236370491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rip < 1236370493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your < 1236370495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :throat < 1236370497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :out < 1236370511 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok. :) < 1236370513 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly the course doesn't cover the chapters where you add evilness to your bot :< < 1236370513 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SODaLG < 1236370541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tuo taorht s'akreikeisa spir < 1236370549 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1236370561 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1236370566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan < 1236370570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol's making a non-friendly AI < 1236370572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what should we do < 1236370572 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't rip what is already ripped. < 1236370585 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ehird, asiekierka < 1236370596 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it's yudkowsky < 1236370599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloo oerjan, situation of universal emergency her < 1236370601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1236370609 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i knew that - i botched it < 1236370624 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i only suspected the y < 1236370650 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ö < 1236370657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan HALP < 1236370682 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well my theory is there already exists an AI, created by aliens at least billions of years ago, so oklopol won't get anywhere with this < 1236370711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: well that fucking sucks, where's my fucking singularity oerjan?! < 1236370714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1236370717 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's already grossly outcompeted < 1236370737 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: oh the already existing AI is working on bringing us there, don't you worry < 1236370743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1236370745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how long to wait < 1236370766 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1236370788 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well 2012 is a good first possibility < 1236370797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that refer to the singularity or the billion year old alien ai? :D < 1236370817 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter, although when you point it out... < 1236370842 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does a "singularity oerjan" differ from the normal one? < 1236370851 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i said at least billions, we might be dealing with a universe creator here < 1236370879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so will the ai make an ai to do the singularity? dawg. < 1236370881 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i think it was mentioned before that the puns no longer suck < 1236370907 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but might require superintelligence to understand, though < 1236370934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the bad bit about the singularity, where do we get shit-stupidity to laugh at < 1236370939 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: quite possibly. actually another theory of mine is that time travel is possible, so that it is actually the same AI < 1236370950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean can you imagine superintelligent oklopol? his dumbness is why he's so clever. I think! < 1236370955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am I making sense guys? < 1236370985 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which could be scary, an AI helping humanity to evolve so that it can be invented, but will it have any use for us afterward? < 1236371036 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it would be dumbness on a higher level. like actually blowing up the sun to make coffee < 1236371041 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*accidentally < 1236371054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, that sounds awesome < 1236371055 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i accidentally the accidentally there, completely by accident < 1236371061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :singularity here we come < 1236371266 0 :tombom!n=tombomp@82.26.196.13 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236371313 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god i want coffee < 1236371353 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries stalking tombom on wikipedia but finds nothing < 1236371370 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on his user page that is < 1236371374 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm user:tombomp if it helps! < 1236371380 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got that far < 1236371381 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not exciting really < 1236371385 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saw your cloak < 1236371392 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yeah i forgot about that < 1236371404 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just wondered where you're from with that nick < 1236371416 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait it's LOTR inspired maybe? < 1236371428 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236371431 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just rhymes < 1236371442 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah so not short for tom bombadil < 1236371450 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1236371812 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I did some graphviz graphs about "people who seem to be conversing together on channel" relationships. < 1236371828 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i recall someone did that on #haskell < 1236371841 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know if it's still around < 1236371853 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/on/for/ < 1236371898 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it was for short periods, it updated in realtime < 1236371932 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*close to realtime, you had to reload < 1236372058 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : so we can find the people who only talk when nobody's listening. < 1236372077 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i note that i tend to do that sometimes when logreading < 1236372086 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236372118 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a question < 1236372124 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which esolang is currently "popular" < 1236372140 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :popular here? < 1236372149 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1236372160 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like BF was once, then Befunge, then Underload/Unlambda < 1236372169 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does fluctuate widely... < 1236372175 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, currently < 1236372185 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one(s) < 1236372196 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well unlambda was mentioned today, zzo38 is writing an interpreter < 1236372207 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :having a bit trouble with continuations < 1236372234 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if redcode is esoteric (close at least) then impomatic's forth interpreter counts too < 1236372254 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :redcode... quite close I'd say < 1236372268 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should make a real redcode machine < 1236372288 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an 8-inch LCD screen along with some chips and 2 mini keyboards for typing in programs < 1236372307 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and INTERCAL gets pretty frequent mention, with ais523 being a maintainer and all < 1236372322 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :old but good < 1236372343 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bf and underload have the advantage they're actually on a bot here < 1236372380 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and from the number of new people who mention it, i'd say bf is always popular < 1236372441 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and befunge too, with fungot and with AnMaster improving his cfunge < 1236372442 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: i'm back. < 1236372456 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd say a lot remains the same < 1236372589 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i basically want balls to be closer to each other if they talk at the same time < 1236372601 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i always knew you were a disturbing guy < 1236372683 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : uh oh, oklopol writing an ai? < 1236372692 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm... What about Crainf**k? < 1236372711 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw reddit said something about wolfram doing it (i didn't click the actual article) < 1236372715 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what's cfunge < 1236372720 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Cfunge Befunge+C? < 1236372731 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: haven't heard crainf**k mentioned in a long time < 1236372736 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1236372738 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge in C < 1236372739 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you think about it < 1236372741 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iiuc < 1236372754 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and optimized for speed < 1236372809 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : answer my question I have a bunker to make < 1236372812 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Crainf**k looks sort of cool for me, but it's quite useless < 1236372827 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bunkers won't help you when the earth is converted to computronium < 1236372848 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, who would want to make CF apps if there is a lot of interpreters there < 1236372886 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks up crainfuck < 1236372892 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone should make a Ainf**k, BF+some ASM features, so you can make your own BF OS < 1236372893 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1236372896 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I should < 1236372907 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, recompiling BF code to ASM code < 1236372919 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION fails at contacting wiki < 1236372934 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1236372937 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's BF with C features < 1236372947 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Crainfuck < 1236373013 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember when my friend made this BF bootsector interpreter < 1236373017 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still have it, actually < 1236373022 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should be quite fast, eh? :D < 1236373051 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but basically, most brainfuck derivatives get pretty low interest here < 1236373066 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are just too many of them < 1236373076 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :V looks interesting < 1236373083 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about deriatives of DIFFERENT languages than BF < 1236373093 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the "gluing parts to a skateboard to make a racing car" adage applies < 1236373112 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, but we lack an esolang to make OSes :( < 1236373114 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1236373140 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNFUN FACT: The first days of me here (the very, very childish and lame "me") were ideas to make an OS esolang < 1236373143 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the attempts to create ESO OSes tend to fizzle down too < 1236373149 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1236373190 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, i'm not talking about a whole OS < 1236373192 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a mini-kernel < 1236373214 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think befunge could handle it < 1236373238 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah V was one of the better ones iirc (and i implemented it), although it still probably is not _used_ much... < 1236373265 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236373316 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 has a project (underlambda) to make an esolang to convert between all other esolangs. nothing beyond basic IO though, and still unreleased < 1236373353 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah befunge has enough add-ons to be nearly an OS by itself... < 1236373365 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what about anything + PSOX? < 1236373393 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: Sgeo here is one of those victims of fizzling down ;) < 1236373404 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has anyone actually written Hello World in V? < 1236373404 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know the bf one can be translated < 1236373407 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzling down? < 1236373421 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : the attempts to create ESO OSes tend to fizzle down too < 1236373463 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, PSOX is mostly operational! (Also, it's not really an ESO OS unless I don't understand how you're defining ESO OS) < 1236373509 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PSOX? < 1236373520 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, i define ESO OS by an OS/kernel programmed in an esolang < 1236373523 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a slight variation of one < 1236373531 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: in this context, anything which attempts to make esolangs useful beyond stdin/stdout < 1236373533 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By "slight variation" I mean adding basic i/o or interrupt support < 1236373543 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236373554 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: ah you mean something else than i then < 1236373595 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That I mean by "Esoteric-Kernel" < 1236373671 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A kernel programmed in an Esolang < 1236373675 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about attempts of these < 1236373702 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm did GregorR not do something like an eso kernel once? < 1236373722 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean? < 1236373740 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was an attempt to ping him to confirm/deny < 1236373740 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He did not. < 1236373745 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1236373751 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or at least, so I didn't hear. < 1236373763 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you did some kernel thing? < 1236373767 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had some vague ambitions leading to nothing. < 1236373778 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...What? < 1236373779 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah another fizzling out victim < 1236373781 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More a joke than an idea. < 1236373787 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you attempt it? < 1236373804 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, in what way did I fizzle out? < 1236373806 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had the impression you actually had something to the point of compiling < 1236373814 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. There's nothing spectacularly difficult about putting such a plan into motion, it's just amazingly opintless :P < 1236373816 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pointless < 1236373819 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I never had code. < 1236373820 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: no one uses PSOX do they? :/ < 1236373847 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well my vague recall fails me for once < 1236373847 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does that have to do with me fizzling out? It's everyone else's lack of interest at fault! lol < 1236373898 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder whether to make one esolang kernel < 1236373905 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And boot it through that thing < 1236373912 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will only need to add "raw access" to the floppy < 1236374406 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-027-168.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1236374673 0 :atrapado!n=mnh@217.168.1.19 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236375553 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1236375681 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1236375787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:37 oerjan: i recall someone did that on #haskell < 1236375789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was at the center, iirc < 1236375807 0 :Mony!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-80-194.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236375822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: UNFUN FACT: The first days of me here (the very, very childish and lame "me") < 1236375828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's another asiekierka? < 1236376526 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"mov.i #1,1" < 1236376544 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Quit" < 1236377294 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236378877 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Peace and Protection 4.22.2" < 1236380757 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Abandonando" < 1236383424 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236386019 0 :Jophish!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1236386992 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1236392191 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-027-168.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1236392722 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-15-119.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236393533 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236394663 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236394980 0 :akiross!n=quassel@host-78-12-254-174.cust-adsl.tiscali.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1236395125 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1236395912 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236396348 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: what's not true? < 1236397158 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236397618 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@cpc2-stkn13-2-0-cust73.11-2.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1236397760 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236398179 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Client Excited" < 1236402823 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: also, bitphase.com < 1236408983 0 :asiekierk!i=africalo@078088180066.elb.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1236408986 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :asiekierka < 1236408997 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hai < 1236409005 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you implement copy-on-write? < 1236409017 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lemme check the logs to see WHAT'S GOING ON < 1236409043 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too... much... logs... on... tunes.org.... < 1236409089 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, nothing really < 1236409118 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, so, bsmntbombdood: What do you mean < 1236409133 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean, what do you mean? < 1236409152 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who did you ask "how do you implement copy-on-write?" < 1236409161 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236409163 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a generic question < 1236409169 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1236409170 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, where and why? < 1236409181 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where do you want to implement and why do you want to implement < 1236409198 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm just curious < 1236409226 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you keep a reference count or something < 1236409236 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, sorry < 1236409262 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :update: if reference count = 1, do destructive updates; otherwise, make a copy with refcount=1, decremement refcount of original < 1236409502 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to make something in I/O SNUSP < 1236409507 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Core SNUSP + : FILE < 1236409528 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sets the new filename using a string from the cell memory interrupted by 0 (by default it's stdin, if you feed 0 to it it's back at stdin) < 1236409537 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, stdin/stdout < 1236409885 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236411660 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@a-37.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1236412799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1236412800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1236412882 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=arvid@smartskola.botkyrka.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236413539 0 :Jophish!n=Jophish@80-47-69-80.lond-hex.dynamic.dial.as9105.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1236414178 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236414983 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"rebooting" < 1236415937 0 :Mony!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-80-194.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236416126 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plop < 1236416193 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ped < 1236416196 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1236416200 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong calculations :( < 1236419261 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@e-94.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1236422545 0 :ugo123!n=chatzill@host236-128-dynamic.51-82-r.retail.telecomitalia.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1236422649 0 :ugo123!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1236423661 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236423901 0 :tombom!i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1236428970 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Peace and Protection 4.22.2" < 1236432148 0 :akiross!n=akiross@host-78-12-254-174.cust-adsl.tiscali.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1236433464 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1236433475 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BrainTape: 0% < 1236433613 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Quit" < 1236433774 0 :Mony!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-80-194.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236438776 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@a-29.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1236439511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:13 kerlo: oklopol: also, bitphase.com < 1236439513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about it < 1236440022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi akiross, you new? < 1236440604 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ehird < 1236440613 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, i was afk. Yes, i'm new < 1236440619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :welcome :) < 1236440624 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks :) < 1236440668 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, i'm developing a programming language (which is quite esoteric i think...). < 1236440688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat! care to tell us anything about it? :) < 1236440731 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but since it's really under heavy development (by only me), i didn't write anything on the wiki... so i came here to see how's the community and if it may be interesting for someone (in future) < 1236440786 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well... Actually it's not for any specific reason, nor a toy language (well, neither for serious use :D), but it's like... uhm, assembly-for-message-passing :D < 1236440797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, interesting < 1236440800 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :**reason i mean use. It's general purpose < 1236440800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see what you mean < 1236440851 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and well, the idea behind it is to write something that's fully modifiable by the user: the language itself will contain a parser object allowing to modify the syntax < 1236440869 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236440878 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not Esokernel-Project compatible < 1236440886 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and well, that's it. < 1236440902 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As the amount of commands added to an esolang must be 0 or 1 < 1236440903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :akiross: yeah < 1236440908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've pretty much wanted that < 1236440911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since forever < 1236440921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a fully modifiable compiler < 1236440977 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that fits for some things < 1236440983 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eheh, the problem is that... modifying the code on the fly need to handle the code itself: i can't see compilation feasible in near future. < 1236440988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: what are you rambling about this time < 1236440993 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing < 1236440993 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236440996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :akiross: you can do it lisp-style < 1236440997 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing, really. nothing! < 1236440998 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka, sorry, but what's an esokernel? < 1236441001 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1236441003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :having the compiler modifiable at compile time from itself < 1236441005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :akiross: disregard asiekierka < 1236441008 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A project to make a mini-kernel thing in an esolang < 1236441011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he keeps saying he'll make an operating system in an esolang < 1236441014 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1236441014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the 500th time < 1236441018 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS != kernel < 1236441019 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1236441020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think he's ever got further than rambling < 1236441021 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS > kernel < 1236441024 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Yep < 1236441025 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahah ok :) < 1236441029 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But wishes are wishes < 1236441033 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1236441073 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes, i thought about lisp in some ways, but actually i'm not a guru of lisp and... well, it's with objects, not lists. So it remembers smalltalk in some ways < 1236441081 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i agree, asiekierka < 1236441087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :akiross: I meant the compiler model < 1236441092 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh, sorry < 1236441099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. you can modify the compiler at compile-time, but not runtim < 1236441100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1236441175 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. I'll hope to learn more in future... I'm quite a noob in the programming languages field < 1236441189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a good place to learn, assuming you're crazy :) < 1236441190 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am too, akiross < 1236441200 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see: DOBELA, a failed attempt at an esolang < 1236441207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: haven't you been here since 2006. < 1236441212 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i was < 1236441218 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eheh good, i'm a bit crazy and i learn quickly ;) < 1236441221 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but being a noob doesn't equal being here for two days < 1236441227 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about Esme < 1236441231 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You stop being a noob when you quite understand something < 1236441242 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I could say i'm less of a noob and more of a newbie but nah < 1236441325 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-15-119.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236441332 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, i'm also a super-noob in OSes < 1236441337 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm rambling for the sake of rambling < 1236441366 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And... did anyone actually look at DOBELA? < 1236441398 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eheh < 1236441441 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236441441 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236441443 0 :Jophish!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236441446 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236441446 0 :Robdgreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236441448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236441448 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236441448 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236441450 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236441450 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236441452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236441453 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236441453 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236441455 0 :SimonRC_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236441455 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236441457 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236441457 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236441457 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236441457 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236441459 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236441483 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1236441485 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quick < 1236441490 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while ehird is not here < 1236441504 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he wouldn't complain at my rambles < 1236441511 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :akiross: Did you see DOBELA? < 1236441528 0 :Mony!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-80-194.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236441528 0 :Jophish!n=Jophish@80-47-69-80.lond-hex.dynamic.dial.as9105.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1236441528 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236441528 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-15-119.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236441528 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1236441528 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1236441528 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-54-59.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236441528 0 :Asztal!n=moo@chunkybacon.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1236441528 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@a91-153-121-248.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1236441528 0 :ehird!n=ehird@208.78.103.223 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236441528 0 :SimonRC_!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1236441528 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1236441528 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236441528 0 :Robdgreat!i=rob@unaffiliated/robdgreat JOIN :#esoteric < 1236441528 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@65.183.185.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236441528 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1236441528 0 :Dewi!n=dewi@124-171-151-62.dyn.iinet.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1236441528 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r03jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1236441528 0 :ineiros!n=ineiros@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1236441528 0 :mtve!n=mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236441548 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka, i'm taking a look right now < 1236441567 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Too late (but nah) < 1236441572 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahah it looks interesting :) < 1236441583 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, you mean DOBELA looks interesting? < 1236441583 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lool < 1236441583 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love it < 1236441583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quick netsplit! < 1236441587 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :akiross: This was my first and currently last esolang < 1236441587 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, DOBELA looks interesting < 1236441587 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may find the logs from the day DOBELA was discussed on my PC < 1236441604 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhm, in 2008 < 1236441608 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yep < 1236441619 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should be about 6-7th November 2008 < 1236441621 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and still aren't you sure about that 1% ?D < 1236441622 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? :D < 1236441625 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope < 1236441631 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because there's no interpreter < 1236441650 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, DOBELA operates on bits < 1236441652 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i was just wondering... It's just a theoretical model? < 1236441660 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Maybe < 1236441663 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*is it < 1236441668 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, my english is really bad. < 1236441668 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would call it an "esolang-made-in-free-time" < 1236441672 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No prob, akiross < 1236441678 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My english was bad when I joined here too < 1236441683 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird should recall it, amirite? :D < 1236441713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't possibly comment. < 1236441717 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236441800 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...ouch, NOW i see what did you mean with "operates on bit" < 1236441801 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bits < 1236441815 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dots = bits < 1236441819 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahaha it's wonderful!! < 1236441876 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@a-29.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1236441889 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can flip dots, output and input them, collect them to a FIFO and use ^ | : v to configure data < 1236441894 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And | is quite unclearly discussed < 1236441959 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's that something hitting the left of | goes down or up, depends on the set value thing < 1236441965 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right works the same < 1236441989 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an interpreter would be fun :) < 1236441990 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hitting the down of | makes all dots hitting it left/right go down < 1236442002 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hitting the up of | makes all dots hitting it left/right go up < 1236442008 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should be fun < 1236442096 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some way it remembers me the blackbox logic game < 1236442190 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made an update < 1236442205 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i think I did < 1236442279 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I did it! < 1236442353 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1236443045 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=arvid@smartskola.botkyrka.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236443836 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236444475 0 :M0ny!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-80-194.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236444526 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236444608 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=arvid@smartskola.botkyrka.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236444633 0 :M0ny!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-80-194.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236445145 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236445549 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've to go. See you soon! < 1236445571 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236445627 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1236445700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Apple Computer, Inc. v. Franklin Computer Corp., 714 F.2d 1240 (3d Cir. 1983), was the first successful attempt in a court of law in the United States to prove that computer software in electronic form (not visual) could be protected by copyright[citation needed]. ]] < 1236445702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg :( < 1236446119 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1236446625 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : What about Esme < 1236446637 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't that go a bit beyond "failed"... < 1236446986 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236446990 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh you < 1236447011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1236447046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typeof [1,2] -> [1 | 2], or typeof [1,2] -> [num] where type num = ... | -1 | 0 | 1 | 2 | 3 | ... < 1236447051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe. < 1236447115 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At what point between "food" and "inorganic matter" does something start being considered inedible? < 1236447135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mcdonalds < 1236447135 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A rock is clearly inedible, but if I ground that rock into powder and mix in a little bit of gravy, is that now edible? < 1236447141 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL, good answer. < 1236447231 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((ESME. )(Esme, )):^!S(~:^:S*a~^~*a*~:^):^ < 1236447232 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ESME. Esme, Esme, ESME. Esme, ESME. ESME. Esme, Esme, ESME. ESME. Esme, ESME. Esme, Esme, ESME. Esme, ESME. ESME. Esme, ESME. Esme, Esme, ESME. ESME. Esme, Esme, ESME. Esme, ESME. ESME. Esme, Esme, ESME. ESME. Esme, ESME. Esme, Esme, ESME. ESME. Esme, Esme, ESME. Esme, ESME. ESME. Esme, ESME. Esme, Esme, ESME. Esme, ESME. ...too much output! < 1236447299 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :salt is edible, in moderation < 1236447313 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that < 1236447327 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as is ice. water is potable. < 1236447365 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: salt is both food and inorganic matter. < 1236447394 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: an underload program for printing the thue-morse sequence, modified slightly to look like Esme. < 1236447409 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, oerjan said that. < 1236447419 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm, touché... < 1236447780 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw great < 1236447797 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How to install GRUB < 1236447803 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without a linux handy < 1236447844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh. < 1236447910 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aside: bugs like http://hackage.haskell.org/trac/ghc/ticket/3079 amuse me. < 1236447940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1236447948 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, I made a compiler: (pre-sorry for the flood; but it should be just 6 lines) < 1236447950 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fis@eris:~/src/java$ cat primes.f < 1236447953 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ writes all prime numbers between 0 and 100 } < 1236447955 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :99 9[1-$][\$@$@$@$@\/*=[1-$$[%\1-$@]?0=[\$.' ,\]?]?]# < 1236447958 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fis@eris:~/src/java$ java -cp bin:/usr/share/java/bcel.jar fi.zem.jvmfalse.Compiler primes.f < 1236447961 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fis@eris:~/src/java$ java -cp .:bin JVMFalse ; echo < 1236447964 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :97 89 83 79 73 71 67 61 59 53 47 43 41 37 31 29 23 19 17 13 11 7 5 3 2 < 1236447972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay how is that special? < 1236447974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i dun get it < 1236447975 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it does False -> java VM bytecode. < 1236447976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1236447984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...ic...&? < 1236448016 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I don't think announcing any compilers here is very out-of-the-ordinary. < 1236448027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok. < 1236448037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: how does it handle clozrs < 1236448043 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are no closures in False. < 1236448055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well kind of. < 1236448062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just closures on nothing. < 1236448101 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, well, [...] is compiled so that the insides of the function is compiled, it's placed somewhere, and a piece of code to push a pointer to that function is generated wherever the [...] was. < 1236448108 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even C has closures on nothing :) < 1236448137 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's nothing especially *special* about this; it's more of a continuation to yesterday's discussion on False being easy to compile. It can't be that difficult, if even I could do it. < 1236448151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may write False->asm, why not. < 1236448157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speed for your enterprise false! < 1236448160 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :False->asm would be useful < 1236448163 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me < 1236448169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. No it would not. < 1236448189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: do you handle ß? < 1236448227 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, in the sense that the flush() method of the FalseIO interface is called on ß. In the default implementation it calls out.flush(), where out is by default System.out. < 1236448262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just meant the funnay charactar. < 1236448264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236448293 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Well, yes. I think it uses the platform's default character encoding, whatever that may be, to read the contents. So I think here you need a utf-8 ß in the file. < 1236448402 0 :tombom!i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1236448421 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You want False? You can't _handle_ the False. < 1236448442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :groan < 1236448457 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i considered trying it in german < 1236448485 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but too little brain < 1236448511 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Java bytecode is a rather friendly target for False, being stack-based itself. Although the operand stack is local to a method, so all False code needs to be inside a single method; and the ! call/return thing goes through some double-jumping because (probably for safety reasons) JavaScript doesn't really have a computed-goto-like instruction. (Except the 'ret' in a jsr/ret pair, but the return address type is so magical you can't put it inside any sort of stac < 1236448557 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, JavaScript? < 1236448568 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I say JavaScript? I meant Java. < 1236448571 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1236448594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1236448596 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or Java VM, anyway. < 1236448607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afety reasons) JavaScript doesn't really have a computed-goto-like instruction. (Except the 'ret' in a jsr/ret pair, but the return address type is so magical you can't put it inside any sort of stac < 1236448611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you got cut off there < 1236448620 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. -- any sort of stack with any JVM opcodes.) < 1236448730 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider installing the 'splitlong' script if you're using irssi. < 1236448806 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just resorted to building a big table of all possible jump targets (beginnings of non-inlined [...] blocks and all ! sites) and use indices of that table as return addresses / function pointers, plus a single tableswitch opcode. In Java it would probably look like the whole program was inside a "while (true) { switch (pop()) { ... } }" structure, and jumps were written as "push(x); break;". < 1236448883 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Normally I just manually say any long-looking sentences to myself to see if I get cut off; this time I didn't rememer. A script might be fine too. < 1236452136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, someone paste me a utf-8 beta. < 1236452239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie? :P < 1236452246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, there < 1236452297 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please be advised that ß from above is not a beta, but an ess-zed [sp] < 1236452335 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is part of iso-8859-1 < 1236452358 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an actual greek beta is beyond my current setup < 1236452821 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is not meant to imply more than a very slight possibility that you were being confused about this) < 1236453058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: does your compiler handle ` for inline jvm? :D < 1236453078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a initially contains cmd line args? and first line of input unless you flush is the command line opts joined by " "? < 1236453741 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goddamnit < 1236453743 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is slow < 1236453750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol wat < 1236453813 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/1355386 < 1236453821 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd think that'd be pretty fast, right? < 1236453826 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol wat, a slightly less known temple complex in cambodia < 1236453841 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strstr(str, "foo") (written in assembly in glibc) is twice as fast < 1236453841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: well... no? < 1236453846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has tons of branches. < 1236453847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236453852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: strstr isn't just in asm < 1236453854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses freaky tricks < 1236453862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you could probably write in C < 1236453880 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i doubt boyer-moore is gonna be faster in this case < 1236453928 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll get rid of some of the branches and find out what happens < 1236453949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: may I interest you in the *((int*)s) trick? < 1236453954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is very efficient use of his time. < 1236453974 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't really compare more than one character at a time here < 1236454002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lookup table? :-D < 1236454032 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1236454047 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm you should only need to check each third char initially... < 1236454055 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that what boyer-moore does? < 1236454061 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googles < 1236454095 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yeah < 1236454437 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1236454499 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: genius! < 1236454510 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using a couple lookup tables makes it as fast as strstr < 1236454522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\m/ < 1236454526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am clearly the best C coder ever. < 1236454546 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: oklopol: what's not true? <<< err, the thing you said? < 1236454556 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, actually it's faster < 1236454562 0 :k!n=kar8nga@e-15.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1236454568 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :match takes 4.5 seconds, strstr takes 6 seconds < 1236454581 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1236454585 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1236454587 0 :k!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kar8nga < 1236454592 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: if you're referring to that causality thing, you pretty much said implication implies equivalence, which is simply not true. < 1236454603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: neat < 1236454610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how big are these strings :P < 1236454616 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :short < 1236454641 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway probably some sleep before i explode < 1236454643 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1236454674 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: also what about http://www.bitphase.com/? < 1236454676 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see. "If lack of correlation implies lack of causation, then correlation implies causation." < 1236454709 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that has a name... < 1236454726 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: yeah that's a well-known logical error no one sane would ever make < 1236454728 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you get "implication implies equivalence" from that? < 1236454754 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let me rephrase it, then. < 1236454767 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If lack of correlation is evidence for lack of causation, then correlation is evidence for causation." < 1236454784 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you agree with me now? < 1236454824 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: (a=>b)^(!a=>!b) is just another way to do equivalence with implications < 1236454837 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does ^ denote? < 1236454840 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1236454855 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're saying the first implies the latter, which would mean a=>b implies a<=>b < 1236454862 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Denying_the_antecedent except switched < 1236454872 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if i'm not mistaken, do realize i can't keep my eyes open. < 1236454892 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is a bit too tired for interactive conversation < 1236454892 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I venture that if A is evidence for B, then B is evidence for A. < 1236454940 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: you should probably read the newest xkcd < 1236454943 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might learn something < 1236454952 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did. That's why I'm saying this at all. < 1236454969 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know you did, that's why i said that. < 1236454977 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: the first part is much stronger evidence than the second though < 1236455029 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first is proof of absense, the second just absense of disproof < 1236455076 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, enough venturing. < 1236455084 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Theorem: If A is evidence for B, then B is evidence for A. < 1236455097 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah absense of *that specific* disproof; just "A is evidence for B" simply says nothing about the other direction in general < 1236455118 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: stating stuff seemingly formally does not make it rigorous. < 1236455131 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll make it rigorous and give you a proof. < 1236455132 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sorry for being cranky, not sure i mentioned this yet but i'm pretty tired < 1236455137 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh cool < 1236455140 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats kerlo and gives him an F -----### < 1236455142 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll read it when i'm back to my senses < 1236455152 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would you agree with this statement: P is evidence for Q if and only if the probability of P(Q|P) > P(Q). < 1236455156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think kerlo enjoys winding people up by trying to prove the idiotic. < 1236455165 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.ca/1355402 < 1236455170 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can i make that faster? < 1236455183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : while(c = *str++) { < 1236455190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe summat *((int*)s)?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?!?! < 1236455193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<_< < 1236455202 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: i guess that's a reasonable definition in some cases < 1236455204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : case 2: < 1236455204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if(c == 'o') < 1236455205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return 1; < 1236455207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you avoid the comparison? < 1236455256 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think so, because you have to break out somewhere < 1236455263 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, take Bayes' theorem: P(A)P(B|A) = P(B)P(A|B). Rearrange it: P(A)/P(A|B) = P(B)/P(B|A). < 1236455264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1236455266 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lessee, that's equivalent to P(P /\ Q) > P(Q)*P(P), huh. < 1236455281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: but, *((int*)s)? < 1236455287 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: and? < 1236455298 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool, oerjan just proved it using symmetry. < 1236455300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whaddya mean and? < 1236455319 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about *((int*)s)? < 1236455325 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, with this rearrangement, it's obvious that if P(A|B) > P(A), then P(B|A) > P(B). < 1236455331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: use it to read instead of one char at a time? < 1236455351 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming, of course, that all probabilities are positive. If one of them is negative or zero, you've got bigger problems. < 1236455356 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: my computer doesn't have memory for a 4 gigabyte lookup table < 1236455369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: that's why you use a mask < 1236455378 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you are doing the same thing < 1236455389 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it won't be any faster < 1236455397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1236455401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me & ais523 helped comex recently < 1236455404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme dig up a link < 1236455407 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may be interested to know that my final solution is < 1236455420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: a slower one? :P < 1236455426 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/409469 < 1236455444 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, instead of nulling out the characters after the space, the lookup table includes every possibility < 1236455452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1236455454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that huge < 1236455466 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really, most of the morse codes are three characters anyway < 1236455486 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's faster, only one branch < 1236455501 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I found out that it was only taking ~20ms, and the other ~180ms was JNI being slow :p < 1236455508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1236455514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: 20ms for a 6 megabyte string? < 1236455517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's awesome. < 1236455524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you pastie the resulting asm? < 1236455534 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get it < 1236455536 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sec < 1236455543 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't java supposed to be open source now? but I can't find JNI's implementation anywhere < 1236455547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: that decodes morse code < 1236455556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just alphabetical < 1236455572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note the huge STUFF line < 1236455696 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why on earth is that an array of chars rather than an array of shorts? < 1236455719 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they're separate values? it doesn't matter :u < 1236455775 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc on my desktop gives me http://pastie.org/410377 < 1236455776 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't 2*(a%381) longer than stuff? < 1236455797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: #define STUFF < 1236455799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that line < 1236455802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is like 23948578349345 columns wid < 1236455803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1236455805 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1236455816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define STUFF 63, 1, 63, 1, 63, 1, 63, 1, 77, 3, 65, 3, ravenous black hole < 1236455818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the lookup table < 1236455826 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blame pastie for not wordwrapping < 1236455829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: wow, that's really compact < 1236455840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this with all the optimizations? < 1236455843 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1236455846 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsigned short ink = stuff[a%381]; would be a lot easier to read < 1236455856 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: no, blame you for not writing stuff sensibly < 1236455864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: he was optimizing < 1236455888 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: yeah, but when writing nomic stuff I have to use pastebin because pastie doesn't wordwrap < 1236455905 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be static const stuff = { < 1236455913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1236455914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the function body < 1236455916 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* 70 columns ...*/ < 1236455919 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/* 70 columns ...*/ < 1236455922 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1236455924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh shut the fuck up < 1236455932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody gives a shit how pretty it looks, it's trivial code < 1236455942 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could've at least used \ when defining the macro < 1236455945 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then i might actually be able to see the whole thing! < 1236455951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :horizontal scrollbar < 1236455952 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: it's not mainly because it was easier for me to copy and paste from a python script if it was all on one line < 1236455954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, click raw < 1236455957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and copy it into an editor < 1236455958 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1236455983 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I was in the sauna.) No, it doesn't do ` for inline jvm, but I was thinking of extending ` for FFI to Java or something; the "strange" False command-line-as-input thing it doesn't do at all. < 1236455992 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could've made the python script print a header, then include that header < 1236456002 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a quick hack < 1236456006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what about the 'a' thing < 1236456008 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did you generate the table? < 1236456036 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: What is the 'a' thing? < 1236456036 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: brute force modulos until it found one that gave unique results for each possibility < 1236456048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: a-z variables; a is initialized to a pointer to argv < 1236456050 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, that 'a' thing. < 1236456055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can read it and + it to access argv < 1236456057 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and your code isn't portable across endianness < 1236456063 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: yeah, I know < 1236456072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just do an #if on the endianness < 1236456076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have two tablse < 1236456076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236456077 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I cared I would fix it and do that :p < 1236456091 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1236456119 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to find the right include files for compiling it on linux < 1236456153 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, no, it doesn't do that. The peek/poke ;/: operations work only for a-z (which actually push 0-25 as the varadr). I don't see where that 'a' thing is specified either. < 1236456157 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there. < 1236456171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's not really false < 1236456171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236456179 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should see if i can write that a little more sensibly < 1236456195 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie/ehird; what're you ralking about? < 1236456203 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's false-ish. < 1236456212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're ralking about rizzie's ralse interpreter in rava < 1236456214 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more sensible, less fast is probably how it'll turn out :( < 1236456216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236456217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compier < 1236456220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compirer < 1236456243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: if you adopt the ugly, you get 20ms to morse-decode a 6mb string :P < 1236456255 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not possible < 1236456260 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: well, the original assignment was to implement it in Java using a binary tree < 1236456261 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got creative :p < 1236456265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: why not? < 1236456268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his does that < 1236456328 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why linux gives less accurate results for clock() < 1236456330 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: "...in java" :P < 1236456367 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: hey, java was weird < 1236456389 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume all the crud in there is so you can call the function from java? < 1236456393 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1236456425 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my java implementation, even though it was written so that it should be O(n), the time taken was increasing way faster than that < 1236456444 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I saw that, I gave up :p < 1236456467 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(charAt and indexOf only, no new string creation or anything) < 1236456650 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want it done right, you have to do it yourself i guess < 1236456796 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what level class is this? < 1236456904 0 :tombom!i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1236457910 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah like i could sleep after that many liters of coffee :< < 1236457962 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for sound sleep, always make sure your blood percentage exceeds your coffee percentage < 1236457983 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: Would you agree with this statement: P is evidence for Q if and only if the probability of P(Q|P) > P(Q). <<< heh, no. i guess i should've asked what you meant before starting to insult you :D < 1236457986 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has only had one cup today < 1236457994 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay. < 1236458004 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: by that definition you're right, i think. < 1236458033 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd define A implies B by P(B|A)>e for some positive e, probably. < 1236458047 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's not a two-way street < 1236458063 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236458077 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe for e=0.5. < 1236458083 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1236458122 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if P(B) = 0.7, then A implies B for all A independent of B. < 1236458126 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun stuff. < 1236458166 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah and the moon being yellow implies 1+1=2 < 1236458189 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just how i'd define it, A implies B means if you know A is true, then B is probably true. < 1236458197 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION nods < 1236458223 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :WARNING: Mad (Statistical) Science | Logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236458233 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. This chewing gum tastes like rubbing alcohol all of a sudden. < 1236458262 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: that means a little more chewing will set your gums on fire < 1236458276 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool. < 1236458284 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if this is the taste of glycerol. < 1236458287 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the gums of your teeth, too < 1236458346 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blah < 1236458350 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :head < 1236458351 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is < 1236458358 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :broken < 1236458374 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it cannot distinguish space from return < 1236458432 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had a great comeback to that, but it would've been many, many lines, and you wouldn't have seen its last word. < 1236458447 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i just decided to do this meta stuff < 1236458452 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope you enjoy it < 1236458469 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never meta stuff i didn't enjoy < 1236458547 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...you're chokes are killing me < 1236458574 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and your spelling < 1236458591 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is listening to a song coauthored by kerlo and himself < 1236458601 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't know I coauthored a song. < 1236458610 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did I contribute? < 1236458625 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the main melody < 1236458639 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wrote it on gp and added some random stuff, and now it found it < 1236458642 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*now i < 1236458693 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you send it to me? < 1236458727 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's a really short snippet but sure < 1236458888 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just wanted to try out that transition i heard in my head when i listened to yours < 1236459002 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the second part is just a random continuation to it, i think i just hacked it up without that much thought, i don't usually go for anything that conventional < 1236459019 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236459373 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-119-177.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236459677 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: did you not get it or just didn't feel like commenting? < 1236459704 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not saying there's anything to comment, just asking because i have nothing else to do :P < 1236459782 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, my dad asked me for help with something. < 1236459818 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I'll recognize this. < 1236459837 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no worries, i'm not sure what you could possible want to comment about it anyway :P < 1236459950 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I do recognize that. < 1236459995 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was that the background you were thinking? i mean i was going songsmith there < 1236460057 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-027-168.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1236460089 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking something more like the music in Spore, I guess. Something suggestive of being underwater. < 1236460099 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since Spore takes place underwater. :-P < 1236460106 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i should make more music, kinda getting boring listening to this same stuff all the time < 1236460173 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: right i don't really do atmosphere :| < 1236460184 0 :madbr!n=madbrain@modemcable175.136-81-70.mc.videotron.ca JOIN :#esoteric < 1236460227 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add arpeggiated B minor and C major chords. < 1236460236 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And tell me how to spell "arpeggiated" while you're at it. < 1236460251 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well looks alright to me < 1236460252 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i can check < 1236460259 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine it is. < 1236460262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hi < 1236460263 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1236460263 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct < 1236460269 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ho < 1236460270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and hi everyone else) < 1236460274 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: together at the same time? :o < 1236460277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oh and befunge too, with fungot and with AnMaster improving his cfunge < 1236460278 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but those are about sound, not the host) < 1236460279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1236460296 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: arpeggiated b minor and c major where exactly? < 1236460308 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: someone asked what esolangs were popular at the moment < 1236460312 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-15-119.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236460320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236460323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge+c < 1236460324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236460329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually had some ideas < 1236460331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about FFI < 1236460348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, to allow calling external code from funge < 1236460357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however the tasks seems very difficult < 1236460370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, expressing prototypes and such from funge < 1236460385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and using libffi to construct calls on the fly < 1236460400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a better approach may be having the user make a simple module that can be useful < 1236460403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :used* < 1236460405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from cfunge < 1236460410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like dlopen()ed < 1236460416 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, not at the same time. < 1236460442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo, err what language is this? < 1236460456 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: well i don't know how to pluralize "where". < 1236460473 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: um, I'm talking about music in English. < 1236460487 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh not talking to me < 1236460490 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was replying to madbr when I said "no, not at the same time". < 1236460492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo, ah. < 1236460499 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, where. < 1236460520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo, there are some esolangs based on music < 1236460530 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: ohh, i thought madbr was some irc contact of yours, and asked you when you'd meet :P < 1236460538 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah no way < 1236460599 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The main melody goes like this, if I'm not mistaken: (.) F# B D . . E . . B . . . G C D . . E . . C . . . (F# B) < 1236460636 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1236460709 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :There is no "i" in UBUNTU | WARNING: Mad (Statistical) Science | Logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236460713 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what song& < 1236460731 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1236460732 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1236460767 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add arpeggiated B minor and C major like this: (G) C E F# B D F# B D F# B D F# B D G C E G C E G C E G (C E) < 1236460789 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i see < 1236460790 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Omit the G C E at the beginning the first time around. < 1236460797 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like B phrygian < 1236460800 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grappa rapida < 1236460822 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: so Bm on top of the E..B.. too? < 1236460858 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes. < 1236460909 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reminds me of the transformers theme (except that's in A I think) < 1236460943 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :listening to other stuff, so i can't say for sure what it'd sound like < 1236460952 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like that E'd be a waste < 1236460993 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: congrats for perfect pitch < 1236461003 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have perfect pitch < 1236461010 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err k < 1236461022 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :F is sharp, A is not used, everything else is natural, and I don't know what the tonic is but suspect it's B. < 1236461045 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a keyboard right next to my computer :D < 1236461060 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236461079 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: Is it some song or something you're composing? < 1236461119 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: not willfully. :-P < 1236461137 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mentioned a melody once, and then oklopol used it. < 1236461140 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: yeah i don't think you can have Hm < 1236461146 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1236461147 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bm < 1236461163 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the second bar < 1236461166 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bm, C? < 1236461185 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: how are you dividing this into bars? < 1236461191 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, E is the 4th of B < 1236461200 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And specifically Bm < 1236461209 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: so that there are two bars of Bm in yours. < 1236461227 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: well yes, clearly it doesn't work on paper < 1236461229 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :F# B | D . . | E . . | B . . | . G C | D . . | E . . | C . . | . < 1236461230 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Afaik that's a weak note but no problem over Bm < 1236461247 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just don't think it sounds good. < 1236461254 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tonics divided into bars, but no gin? < 1236461282 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C E | F# B D | F# B D | F# B D | F# B D | G C E | G C E | G C E | G < 1236461287 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bm, Em, Bm, C could fit too < 1236461296 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: okay i had twice as long bars < 1236461317 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :F# B | D . . E . . | B . . . G C | D . . E . . | C . . . < 1236461325 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: yeah Em is what i had, and what's the obvious chord < 1236461333 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C E | F# B D F# B D | F# B D F# B D | G C E G C E | G C E G < 1236461342 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that or Bm11 < 1236461374 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah of Bsus4 or Aadd9. < 1236461391 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*or < 1236461391 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: so you don't like the chords I gave? < 1236461408 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: no i think the second bar kills the melody. < 1236461411 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1236461432 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do realize i'm used to my own chords, i may just not understand your vision. < 1236461452 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I'd like you to send me a MID of it. < 1236461466 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that I don't have a piano and some ability to play it. < 1236461467 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a short snippet, esoteric ideas will usually sound crappier without company. < 1236461473 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MID is easier. :-P < 1236461523 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k wait a sec < 1236461575 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vjn.fi/oklopol/music/jeesjess.mid < 1236461672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo, what does "arpeggiated" _mean_? < 1236461676 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Em7 Fm7 perhaps? < 1236461679 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see how that'd sound good in any context, so i'm assuming you either explained or represented it wrong < 1236461681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't find it in a dictionary < 1236461686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can't translate to Swedish < 1236461688 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: play the notes sequentially, not simultaneously. < 1236461690 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236461691 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As an arpeggio. < 1236461695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo, oh right < 1236461696 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :explained or thought it wrong < 1236461712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo, what was the melody supposed to be? < 1236461722 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I don't think you aligned it right. < 1236461725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried it on my piano, but not knowing any timing information... < 1236461732 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it, some sort of musical tarpit? :D < 1236461734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite nice tune < 1236461743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, there exists such < 1236461749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot the name < 1236461752 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: well how about you do it. < 1236461753 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The first F# of the chords is aligned with the first D of the melody. < 1236461758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was one with music as only storage < 1236461764 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. What program are you using to do this? < 1236461774 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the melody isn't supposed to be anything in particular. < 1236461780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, with a "Schönberg command" for 12 random notes < 1236461781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1236461799 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1236461808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, it was one of the entries to the esolang contest of some year < 1236461813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't remember which < 1236461819 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: so don't listen to the first three notes of the guitar, it's not like they are the ones that sound bad. < 1236461826 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236461855 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1236461864 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1236461865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.stephensykes.com/choon/choon.html < 1236461869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, that was it ^ < 1236461875 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that file pastebin that works? < 1236461878 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In that case, it sounds perfectly fine to me. < 1236461895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, also has the "john cage" command. Pause < 1236461949 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was going through ~, cleaning it out, and look what i find... < 1236461951 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://filebin.ca/hdjbby < 1236461964 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol professing something strange about chainsaws < 1236461972 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you were referring to the dissonance at the final repetition of F# B D overlaid with . G C. < 1236461976 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm :) < 1236461993 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: no. the E < 1236462024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, original file name? < 1236462026 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no dissonance, just sounds worse than Em imo. < 1236462028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what does it mean? < 1236462030 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finnish? < 1236462033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know Finnish < 1236462039 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ask oklopol < 1236462048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, yes it is Finnish, I know that, but I don't speak the language < 1236462060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION can handle Swedish and English < 1236462069 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was just trying to guess what language it was < 1236462084 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, i love my voice < 1236462092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, and what does it mean? < 1236462111 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :listen closely to the last word < 1236462120 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then ask again if you're still interested. < 1236462144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I can't hear the last word really, it is cut short it seems < 1236462159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, also what was the original filename < 1236462161 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes some MIDIs < 1236462165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, anyway what did it mean? < 1236462171 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the original filename was "terat.wav" < 1236462173 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno what that means < 1236462191 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So a John Cage isn't simply a zero < 1236462212 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: fuck me gently with a chainsaw < 1236462221 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the blades feel great on my genitals < 1236462228 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe "wonderful" < 1236462229 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236462236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok... < 1236462250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, you are weir < 1236462251 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(bsmntbombdood's sentence, i was just the delivery boy.) < 1236462252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird* < 1236462257 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway sleep time < 1236462262 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah, i guess i might be a little < 1236462264 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1236462278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, you wanted that said? < 1236462289 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it is my fantasy < 1236462296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to know more < 1236462304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor why in Finish < 1236462304 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he needed to explain it to his finnish hooker < 1236462312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, -_- < 1236462428 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: okay this is getting ridiculous < 1236462434 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just realized < 1236462436 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're both right again < 1236462437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is? < 1236462452 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're thinking of the "F# B" notes as a... wait what's the term < 1236462460 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway that they start before the first bar < 1236462462 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1236462471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, chord? < 1236462475 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case, Bm *would* work for the second bar. < 1236462485 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"levée" in fr. < 1236462497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, anything works. As Schönberg proved ;P < 1236462501 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well, I said "omit the C E the first time around". You actually have B D where I have C E. < 1236462504 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but, in that case i'm less impressed by the melody) < 1236462523 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought schonberg actually proved that most things don't work :) < 1236462533 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: :) < 1236462537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, well he became famous < 1236462543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like his music < 1236462553 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and almost killed classical music?% < 1236462555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it all depends on how you measure "works" < 1236462556 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: i'm talking about the two first notes, so i'm not sure what you're saying. < 1236462574 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he became famous in what was basically the age of mass hysteria where everybody went crazy and started claiming that bad art was good. < 1236462578 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohh < 1236462581 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"kerlo: F# B | D . . E . . | B . . . G C | D . . E . . | C . . ." < 1236462585 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, here you say it :D < 1236462589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr, hm? Personally I like classical music, as well as more modern music (like Debussy) < 1236462598 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did not read that, sorry. < 1236462600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I consider classical music to only refer to the classical period < 1236462602 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tenchincally first bar is | D . . E . . | < 1236462614 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Debussy was way before schonberg killed classical < 1236462624 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I mean classical music in the large sense of course < 1236462635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, yes. But schonberg didn't kill classical. Since classical refers to the classical period < 1236462636 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: so, my updated opinion is we're both right, and that our disagreement was because of the snippet being too short. < 1236462642 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just like "tonal" can have both a large meaning or a small one < 1236462647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in Swedish we have a better name for the larger sense: konstmusik < 1236462652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning art music < 1236462655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :literally < 1236462670 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: yes, i thought it was | . F# B D . . | < 1236462671 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vad konstig < 1236462672 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :schonberg didn't really kill anything, music is still around < 1236462675 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the melody is more interesting that way. < 1236462677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modern classical music just sounds utterly silly < 1236462677 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo < 1236462684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, you don't have it in Norwegian? < 1236462699 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: okay. < 1236462700 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually no, though that was a pun < 1236462701 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, back to sleep, just came to apologize for once again not actually listening to anyone else, just assuming they're idiots. < 1236462717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway I don't like all of the music Debussy produced. < 1236462718 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHICH YOU STILL PROBABLY ARE, I JUST HAVEN'T CAUGHT YOU YET < 1236462718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236462719 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1236462720 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: no, but the output of classical composition stuff in universities is disappointing because of people like him < 1236462765 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: the output of classical composition stuff in universities is disappointing because it's a bad way to teach composition < 1236462771 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing to do with schonberg < 1236462804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm < 1236462812 0 :Arrogant!n=scotty@86.157.100.97.cfl.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1236462812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:51 AnMaster: modern classical music just sounds utterly silly <-- considering your general reaction to these things, 'classical' can be omitted for you. < 1236462829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what I was talking about the word... < 1236462831 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: as i understand it, academical classical composition basically spends years showing you how to compose in the styles of dead people. < 1236462832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the music < 1236462842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in the term "modern classical music" < 1236462846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, don't let that detract from my joke < 1236462856 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: probably depends on the place though < 1236462860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, your joke is highly irrelevant < 1236462870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your butt is highly irrelevant. < 1236462872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, Plus I *do* like some modern non-classical music. < 1236462879 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: actually we seem to have the term (kunstmusikk) < 1236462881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anyway, it turns out this works in C: < 1236462882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, just you would never believe what < 1236462884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int stk[1]; < 1236462891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gives you an infinite length array < 1236462894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at global level) < 1236462898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I knew it worked inside functions0 < 1236462907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, for example would you believe I liked Leonard Cohen's earlier works? Or Enya? < 1236462913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just some examples :P < 1236462918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I wouldn't if you hadn't already said that 50 times in the past. < 1236462925 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: not really, i mean, what else can they teach? < 1236462929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no I haven't < 1236462932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like 5 < 1236462972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does -fomit-frame-pointer actually do, btw < 1236463006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it omits the frame pointer register reservation, making back traces impossible, but freeing up a general purpose register for use by the register allocator < 1236463012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, as google could have told you < 1236463021 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: well, what I've had was "analysis" class where they basically taught classical style, and "composition" where they taught, ahem, "avanced" techniques < 1236463024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:56 AnMaster: ehird, as google could have told you < 1236463030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't you see any irony in that? < 1236463036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes, I was being ironic < 1236463040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: also, google only gives me things like 'Suppress creation of frame pointers on call stack. Frees the EBP register for other uses.' < 1236463041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :over you asking in here < 1236463044 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: was it all a huge waste of time? < 1236463049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INSTEAD OF GOOGLING WHICH YOU ALWAYS SUGGEST I SHOULD DO < 1236463050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is patently useless, as I didn't know what the fuck a frame pointer was < 1236463061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CAPS LOCK MAKES YOUR ARGUMENT MORE VALID RAAAAR INTERNET RAGE < 1236463064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is used for stuff like back traces < 1236463072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I ask here, I've already google. < 1236463073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*googled < 1236463089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, to find where the return address is iirc < 1236463096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not 100% sure on details < 1236463100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236463106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :globally, where does 'int stk[1]', I wonder? < 1236463110 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Depends, not all of it, but I wonder how those people can say they're making music with a straight face :D < 1236463113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's mutable, so not in one of the .o sections. < 1236463116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The heap? < 1236463120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what? Grammar? < 1236463128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :es 'int stk[1]' go, I < 1236463131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ patch < 1236463136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1236463138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that I know too < 1236463148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if you have a global variable like that it goes into the .data section < 1236463151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the *.o file < 1236463152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1236463153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: .data is mutable? < 1236463155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that depends < 1236463159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may go into .bss < 1236463168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes. .rodata isn't < 1236463171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236463172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however this is for ELF < 1236463173 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh damnit < 1236463177 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: mass insanity, i'm telling you. < 1236463178 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Gah tired" < 1236463178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know about Mach-O < 1236463180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because with {int stk[1]} i'm successfully doing "stk[100] = foo" < 1236463184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is nice < 1236463185 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that foo matcher from before is slower that strstr on long strings < 1236463191 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: the past 100 years is kind of the dark age in the history of culture. < 1236463203 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: it seems to be mostly over though < 1236463204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err, that may cause nasal demons < 1236463223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you probably know < 1236463224 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: dunno... frankly I wonder if it's a religion or something < 1236463225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to hell with nasal demons, it works well and does what I want ("just put this shit anywhere, man") < 1236463235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it breaks I accept full responsibility :D < 1236463247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway, doing stk[4097] = foo is less likely to work < 1236463253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on how large the data segment is < 1236463257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236463263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but since x86 page size is 4096 bytes.. < 1236463265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, FALSE only guarantees a 20kb stack iirc < 1236463273 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems tied with "postmodernism" (which is like the most concentrated form of that sort of thought) < 1236463274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1236463275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I could possibly break it into segments < 1236463281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int is 4 bytes < 1236463282 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: mass hysteria - see the dutch tulip mania for a similar example < 1236463282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning... < 1236463284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :madbr: postmodernism is so stupid. < 1236463285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION consiuders < 1236463288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considers* < 1236463294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would break by 1/4 of that < 1236463296 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And with some marxism tied in it < 1236463304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: before you're blabbing about this, < 1236463311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anwyay you are likely to end up overwriting stuff like stdout < 1236463314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keep in mind that my next solution is to put this on the c stack. < 1236463317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :With inline asm. < 1236463324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, you might wanna keep quiet. < 1236463327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is the data segment stuff needed by stdio < 1236463330 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are we talking about? < 1236463334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hm. < 1236463336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Evil. < 1236463340 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like a ball of pseudointellectualism < 1236463354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, just do it the well defined way, it is way less likely to crash < 1236463369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what's the well-defined way to have a global VLA that works in C89 < 1236463398 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually with some french intellectuals < 1236463400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there is also stuff like __data_start and __dso_handle < 1236463418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, on heap do the 1 variant < 1236463424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and malloc with larger size < 1236463426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works < 1236463434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, I don't want to continually check bounds & realloc < 1236463436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but you were asking about global/static variables right? < 1236463440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1236463447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is for the global data stack of the language < 1236463449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, even with VLAs you need to check bounds. < 1236463463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C won't do it < 1236463487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm fine crashing on that < 1236463521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also VLAs == on stack. Flexible array members is the thing in C99 structs < 1236463535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I meant VLA in a generic sense < 1236463573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[8221`29184`9336`4`50510`20142`65338`50510`11008`]a: { allocmem (size-mem) } < 1236463578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow I doubt this will work on non-Amiga :D < 1236463586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i` writes the raw machine code i to the output file) < 1236463592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, then the portable way is probably: mv main.c main.cpp and replace with std::stack>>,...> < 1236463602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there is no trivial VLA in C < 1236463608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: then I'll stick with what I have til it breaks :P < 1236463611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that will work magically < 1236463618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how large array do you need? < 1236463626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as large as possible. < 1236463636 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alloca? < 1236463637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is your target system? < 1236463641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :portable C < 1236463647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no mmap()? < 1236463648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236463650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for values of portable limited to the real world < 1236463669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, idea: malloc a huge chunk, if it fails try again with a smaller size < 1236463675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :until you find the largest working one < 1236463682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then use it < 1236463683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that'd kill my startup time < 1236463697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well true < 1236463701 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you doing anyway? < 1236463707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, implement the stack as a linked list, very very slow < 1236463710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: writing a FALSE compiler, since fizzie did < 1236463712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: urg < 1236463714 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's false? < 1236463727 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use mmap < 1236463734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://strlen.com/false/ < 1236463736 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it will only allocate when you write < 1236463737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, he said portable C... < 1236463737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1236463738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :old esolang < 1236463745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also did you say compiler? < 1236463748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you generate ASM? < 1236463749 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: fuck non posix < 1236463757 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The doctors did what had to be done: save the life of a girl of nine years old,'' he said, adding that "in this case, the medical profession was more right than the church.'' < 1236463758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, then just use the system stack < 1236463760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I generate C. But I'm adding an asm backend after this, the C is just to check it worked. < 1236463763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, in the compiled program < 1236463765 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1236463767 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wrong channel < 1236463769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wait a sec.... < 1236463771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an idea < 1236463774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm calling c functions < 1236463778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so using the c stack would fail badly < 1236463782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit < 1236463783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : brk(), sbrk(): _BSD_SOURCE || _SVID_SOURCE || _XOPEN_SOURCE >= 500 < 1236463785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1236463789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1236463807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it would allow you to use the C stack however < 1236463810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1236463815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C heap* < 1236463818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in an easy way < 1236463825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, just make sure to never malloc anything else < 1236463825 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't understand the problem here < 1236463829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just doing int stk[1] until I get an overflow. < 1236463839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you are going to get memory corruption < 1236463847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll let you know when that happens, then fix it. < 1236463858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I don't know Mach-O exactly, but on Linux you would hit it after 1-2 pages < 1236463877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait < 1236463884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data segment is *last* < 1236463886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1236463889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from .bss < 1236463914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and .bss is for "zero fill at load time" < 1236463923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while .data loads the actual data from the binary < 1236463923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1236463930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are going to get page faults yes < 1236463943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by writing out into the void of the heap < 1236463944 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought he wanted portable? < 1236463950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, yes < 1236463950 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you talking about elf? < 1236463961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but his suggestion is even less portable than sbrk() < 1236463967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is unportable to *EVERYTHING* < 1236463981 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ulimit -s < 1236463981 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8192 < 1236463985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1236463988 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an 8 mb stack is enough for anyone < 1236463998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, he want to do this on heap anyway < 1236464006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or should at least < 1236464010 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, the stack for the program he's running < 1236464016 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just malloc 8 megabytes < 1236464016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how many more times do I have to say "I will fix it when it comes up" < 1236464019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before you stop whining about it? < 1236464031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: technically, 20kb would be enough. < 1236464037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since that's what the old FALSE used < 1236464048 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what are you on about? < 1236464053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, just one last thing: Likely you are going to get hard to detect corruption first. Only after are you going to segfault < 1236464070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it may seem to run fine even with your solution while your stack is corrupted < 1236464076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or rather, your heap < 1236464257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, idea: char stack[1024*20]; < 1236464273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no duh. < 1236464287 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i really do not understand this discussion < 1236464317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you could use the C stack, and that would be fastest. But probably you would run out pretty quickly < 1236464330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: AnMaster: how many more times do I have to say "I will fix it when it comes up" < 1236464330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:13 ehird: before you stop whining about it? < 1236464341 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: do it the right wya < 1236464343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236464381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, just saying that you _will_ most likely get hard to debug issues. Like memory corruption in libc, or of other variables. Stuff on heap < 1236464392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would thank you if you hadn't told me 50 goddamn times already!! < 1236464417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you seem to confuse 50 and 5 a lot < 1236464422 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what exactly are you trying to do? < 1236464422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the second time today < 1236464430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, duh. He said that above. < 1236464441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, A FALSE to C compiler < 1236464514 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why is allocating a fixed size stack on the C heap not acceptable? < 1236464546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, ask eh ird < 1236464569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go ahead, highlight him, ask it. Don't be shy! < 1236464571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs < 1236464575 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well? < 1236464587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is all AnMaster talking, actually < 1236464594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to know something about the warped model he has of my compiler, ask him < 1236464595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? no < 1236464606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrapped memory is fun < 1236464607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1236464616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes I realise that wasn't relevant at all) < 1236464804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder if gcc can optimize < 1236464805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*top++ = (int)f0; < 1236464806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*top++ = (int)f1; < 1236464808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x = *--top; y = *--top; < 1236464814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(to x = (int)f0; y = (int)f1; ofc) < 1236464847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about modifying top? < 1236464859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: top++; top++; --top; --top; < 1236464860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no net effect < 1236464863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, rather were top points to < 1236464874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, what are you talking about? < 1236464886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, gcc still has to write to the location top points to. < 1236464896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't < 1236464906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it can't know it is a stack < 1236464910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the above is semantically equivalent to x=(int)f0; y=(int)f1; < 1236464917 0 :Arrogant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1236464918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, hm < 1236464921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I guess gcc is idiotic < 1236464925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes but only because top is the top of a stack < 1236464935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't know the values aren't useful to you < 1236464936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :above top < 1236464944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it will probably do it to: < 1236464945 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: wright your own optimizer < 1236464947 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Quit" < 1236464956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll get wright on it < 1236464965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*BADUM TISHHHHH* < 1236464970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, x = *top = (int)f0; y = *(top+1) = (int)f1; < 1236464972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that < 1236464996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, those two are from separate parts < 1236465002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to merge them would be a pain on the backend < 1236465005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm? < 1236465010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*top++ = (int)f0; < 1236465010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*top++ = (int)f1; < 1236465012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1236465015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x = *--top; y = *--top; < 1236465017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1236465018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are generated right after each other < 1236465019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not as one < 1236465049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, generate an IR and then merge the nodes in the graph < 1236465052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236465058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1236465062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why not? < 1236465068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a pain :P < 1236465096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well.. < 1236465107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess so < 1236465110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ps: < 1236465111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you won't get perfect speed < 1236465112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- if you do not write a flush (ß) at the start of a program that < 1236465112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : processes the input to the output, you will get a as < 1236465113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : first input: this is actually the commandline. example: < 1236465116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : a.out blabla out < 1236465118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : then a.out will first read "blabla" as a line, then the contents < 1236465119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : of "in". < 1236465122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate that. < 1236465132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh why? < 1236465144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw < 1236465148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I have to convert argv to a space separated string, and then every time I read check if we're done reading argv yet < 1236465148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in what encoding < 1236465149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1236465153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236465154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean < 1236465162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" if you do not write a flush (ß)" < 1236465169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever the amiga used < 1236465169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that ß as UTF-8? < 1236465172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the original compiler was for the amiga < 1236465175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its implementation defined < 1236465178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1236465179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I handle both utf-8 and iso < 1236465182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the examples use iso < 1236465188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows style I think < 1236465213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but do you handle... UTF-EBCDIC?! < 1236465217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that exists iirc < 1236465226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. No I do not. < 1236465234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Patches unwelcome. < 1236465234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UTF-EBCDIC < 1236465251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is one of the strangest ideas I have come across < 1236465283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strlen((char *)argv) + argc - 1 /* i so hope this works */ < 1236465288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is strangest ideas in the charset encoding area < 1236465299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err < 1236465300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1236465310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that assumes argv is one argument < 1236465316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right, dammit < 1236465319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would get string length of argv[0] < 1236465321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is all < 1236465321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr < 1236465327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ < 1236465331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :char **argv < 1236465336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, and < 1236465341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why I casted it < 1236465342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, they aren't even after each other in memory < 1236465352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aagh < 1236465357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hate hate hate < 1236465362 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is this shit < 1236465363 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :come on < 1236465370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why is it so hard to handle? < 1236465379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean. cfunge has to handle it. < 1236465379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: i'm lazy < 1236465380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1236465382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't complain < 1236465386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I'm not actually asking < 1236465396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, I don't need to strdup it there < 1236465398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1236465402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just whining before fixing it and AnMaster gives a 10 minute response about how he would never complain < 1236465402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers < 1236465425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes optimising away a strdup call in cfunge < 1236465582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph, stpcpy isn't portable. it should be < 1236465793 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stp? < 1236465881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and nor is strdup() btw < 1236465914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also I prefer strlcpy < 1236465921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is *BSD specific < 1236466131 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean strcpy isn't portable? < 1236466140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% ./a.out < 1236466141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1236466142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zsh: bus error ./a.out < 1236466142 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CONFORMING TO < 1236466143 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : SVr4, 4.3BSD, C89, C99. < 1236466144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huray < 1236466149 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but stpcpy is not. < 1236466153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I told you so < 1236466157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:44 AnMaster: ehird, and nor is strdup() btw < 1236466160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, it's not that < 1236466161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stfu < 1236466167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know this because the stack was EMPTY < 1236466171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1236466540 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone should work on implementing the ABCDEF language *ducks* < 1236466562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, specs? < 1236466578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Special:Search?search=ABCDEF&go=Go < 1236466582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't find anything < 1236466587 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.harderweb.de/tmp_jix/allofthem.txt < 1236466593 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/Adjudicated_Blind_Collaborative_Design_Esolang_Factory < 1236466736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo, that is TOO incoherent to be implementable < 1236466773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it isn't < 1236466784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing there is particularly glarly < 1236466786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnarly < 1236466788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go ahead and implement it then < 1236466795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about the GregorR rule? < 1236466802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about it < 1236466809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is contradicted < 1236466815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... no it's not? < 1236466822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are command definitions. < 1236466827 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236466837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1236466947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I won't implement it < 1236467011 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"kåmpjuter köttdaon" < 1236467029 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@92.254.128.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236467122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2. [S] [dest_var,] [n_var,] m_var < 1236467122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : calculates the arm data op of n_var and m_var storing the result in dest_var (treating them all as 33 bit registers) < 1236467125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : flags get stored when S is set (like on a real arm) < 1236467127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love that bit < 1236467241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, can't find it in FALSE spec? < 1236467259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh talking about ABCDEF? < 1236467423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ß (alt-s) - - ß { flush() } < 1236467425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236467427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost < 1236467430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AltGr-s < 1236467432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes that here < 1236467439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1236467778 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Peace and Protection 4.22.2" < 1236467962 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is it always "Illegal type in constant pool"? And why can't it give the constant pool index with the supposedly illegal type while it's at it. < 1236468688 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That static-analysis bytecode verifier is not liking my stuff. "Expecting to find object/array on stack". < 1236468807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, language? < 1236468816 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, Java? < 1236468822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1236468825 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, False, in a way. < 1236468828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night really < 1236468998 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha! The power of open sores: gij-4.3's version of that same error includes also the location: java.lang.VerifyError: verification failed at PC 10 in JVMFalse:main((Lfi.zem.jvmfalse.FalseIO;)V): incompatible type on stack < 1236469203 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next up: VerifyError: Inconsistent stack height 2 != 3. I have a feeling using the jvm operand stack as the False stack won't really work, since the VM is so really intensely boring about what kind of code it wants. < 1236469353 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it complains at the jump-table spot of the code, which is indeed entered with various stack depths. Meh. It sounds like an unfixable restriction. I mean sure, I could use some explicit stack object and push/pop method invocations, but it sounds really boring. (And optimize by using the operand stack inside basic blocks. But that's just boringly boring.) < 1236469465 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's there in the "4.8.2 Structural constants" of the Java VM specification: "If an instruction can be executed along several different execution paths, the operand stack must have the same depth (§3.6.2) prior to the execution of the instruction, regardless of the path taken." < 1236469474 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are we talking about? < 1236469510 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have this compiler (maybe too fine a word) which translates False into Java VM bytecode, and it uses the Java VM's operand stack as the False stack. < 1236469575 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the VM has these all kinds of silly restrictions; I can't really require that the False stack depth is always the same for a particular instruction, since it wouldn't make sense at all. < 1236469667 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, writing that "compiler" was one rather colossal waste of time. < 1236470176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great, a bus error. < 1236470180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Programmer got hit by a bus. < 1236470431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: is primes.f meant to take 5 years? < 1236470787 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really, no. < 1236470857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I have an infinite loop. < 1236471244 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION rewrites that morse code thing < 1236471365 0 :Robdgreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--- .-. .-.. -.-- < 1236471898 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :urgh < 1236473202 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236473648 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nevermind < 1236473655 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got bored writing transition tables < 1236473940 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, ehird: GregorR rule? < 1236474528 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my homebrew python decompiler is quickly getting too complicated to maintain :( < 1236474830 0 :Jophish!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1236475357 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1236475451 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, god < 1236475453 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was killed by a typo < 1236475456 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'JUMP_ABSOLUTe' < 1236475480 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it decompiles this < 1236475482 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/410598 < 1236477598 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok i need some morse code test vectors < 1236477842 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks good < 1236477955 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now for the speed < 1236478007 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: how where you measuring time? < 1236478418 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you said an 8mb buffer in 20 milliseconds right? < 1236478443 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm doing 8mb in 30 milliseconds right now < 1236478474 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my computer is probably slower than yours < 1236478889 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, my code, let me show you it < 1236478984 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/410634 < 1236479876 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine then, ignore me < 1236479994 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :state machine? < 1236480004 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it was 6mb < 1236480010 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here, let me get the same buffer < 1236480017 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not a fair comparison either < 1236480031 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c+p my code and run it on the same machine if you want < 1236480064 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1236480220 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also in-place, nice < 1236480597 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, on my desktop here are the results: < 1236480599 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :]% gcc -O3 -mtune=native -funroll-loops -o morse morse.c && ./morse < 1236480600 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :189843.000000 < 1236480602 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :171221.000000 < 1236480609 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :former is yours, latter is mine < 1236480636 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with this http://pastie.org/410644 < 1236480666 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I switched to 80M :p < 1236480746 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your code ends up shorter in assembly, interesting < 1236480824 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I change -O3 to -Os, yours is faster < 1236480847 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mainly because the division isn't optimized into multiplication < 1236480919 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip70-171-213-254.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236481704 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1236481827 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that mod in yours can't be good < 1236482346 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder how to make it faster < 1236484029 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't see anything :( < 1236488720 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i got rid of the branch in the inner loop using a couple lookup tables, but it made it slightly slower < 1236488745 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1236488790 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, i think i may have something < 1236489588 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay it worked < 1236489764 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/410691 < 1236489805 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :510 milliseconds instead of 600 < 1236492182 0 :madbr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236496499 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I finally have a MIDI file of that little tune up. < 1236496507 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://normish.org/ihope/kerlo.mid < 1236496698 0 :asiekierk!i=africalo@078088180066.elb.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1236496749 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get it < 1236496754 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi asiekierk < 1236496792 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1236496810 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you discus--- oh wait i'll check the logs < 1236496889 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1236496892 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo, cool, but a bit short and repetitive < 1236496894 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi zzo38 < 1236496935 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is currerntly listening to: Au Clair de la Lune (1860 recording) < 1236496960 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wishes Yahoo! Music Jukebox wasn't the only thing on here capable of playing MIDIs < 1236496975 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The idea of akiross, it seems some versions of INTERCAL allow you to change syntax during runtime so that's one possible way.... < 1236496996 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can just include a compiler in the app and recompile the app in memory < 1236497003 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that kind of sucks < 1236497099 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, another thing to add to something like INTERCAL with interleave operator, but allows any length of bits (even infinite), you could do things like zero interleave negative one makes one third, etc. < 1236497130 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that's why it's called a little tune. :-) < 1236497140 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And which INTERCAL is the shortest Hello world output program, maybe CLCLC-INTERCAL. It is: PLEASE ;1 <- #2 < 1236497149 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO ;1 SUB #1 <- #17947$#20775 < 1236497162 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO ;1 SUB #2 <- #5204$#21386 DO READ OUT ;1 < 1236497192 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn, it's not calculator writing, is it. < 1236497193 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should make something like a movie script esolang < 1236497199 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 077 confused me for a moment. < 1236497211 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like Shakespeare but "more than 100 people can read it" < 1236497221 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Epic poem esolang. < 1236497227 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Epic movie esolang. < 1236497252 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, not calculator writing. It is Baudot, encoding 6 Baudot characters in each cell of the array < 1236497280 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another esolang idea is one with mahjong tiles? < 1236497322 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1236497334 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Epic Movie Esolang (E! ME) wouldn't work < 1236497357 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Three times, Thylakos, Eater of All, attempted to increment status_code; the first two times, he was not successful, but on the third, Apollo descended from the clouds, and told him, 'Hark, Thylakos! That variable is not for you to increment, for it is a private variable of the class NetworkConnection!'" < 1236497370 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236497370 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1236497372 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would < 1236497379 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a foreign can't really write it < 1236497405 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you have another idea of CLCLC-INTERCAL < 1236497547 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good night all < 1236497551 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In your opinion, does 1 + 2 pow 2 + 2 pow 4 + 2 pow 6 + 2 pow 8 and so on make -1/3 in my opinion it does because in binary it is .......010101010101. and if you multiply it by three you get negative one, so therefore it is correct. Or you think the result is infinite? I would like to know your opinion < 1236497669 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1236497695 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you like to use FOWER instead of FOUR, or FIFE instead of FIVE < 1236497748 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is the first vowel in "FIFE"? < 1236497777 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I think it does make -1/3, but only 2-adically. < 1236497786 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is "I" isn't it? Or is there a vowel missing < 1236497804 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what sound is it? < 1236497893 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does 2-adically means exactly I never learned 2-adically math. But I did see it mentioned in the book ROAD TO REALITY and all it says is the numbers are allowed to be infinite on the left instead of on the right. The rest I just did myself and don't know about proper 2-adically and whether mine is proper < 1236497955 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I think the sound is "I" sound like FIVE but possibly slightly different because of the following consonant but that is what I heard anyways is the standard for air traffic control, although nobody uses it and nobody cares < 1236498309 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, and do esolang people have any preferences having to do with mahjong game < 1236498609 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1236498651 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38, were you replying to me < 1236498653 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what < 1236498675 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I am replying to you asiekierk!i=africalo@078088180066.elb.vectranet.pl < 1236498682 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whew < 1236498693 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How's your console specification going on? I think you made one... < 1236498732 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you should reply like this to a private message: /msg asiekierk Yes < 1236498763 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I did but I am writing software and specifications more a bit, and then one day I need to get a computer hardware and stuff, and then I can write the software more, testing it, make a company, and a few more things, make manual, etc, and then it will be complete. < 1236498805 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O sorry I missed that the message was private but now I notice it. < 1236498840 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, this was a command < 1236499172 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Thanks I sleep now. But I will continue to read the log if you want to reply to my question(s)/etc" < 1236499199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1236499200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1236499472 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236499507 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1236500509 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Client Excited" < 1236500665 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1236502203 0 :psygnisfive!n=psygnisf@c-71-57-164-119.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236502508 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1236503919 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236503922 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@dsl-tkubrasgw1-fe10fa00-141.dhcp.inet.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1236504009 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oko < 1236504132 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokoko < 1236504188 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1236504809 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1236505273 0 :tombom!i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1236506155 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1236506230 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1236506300 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-027-168.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1236506309 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this guy paul pietroski from university of maryland < 1236506325 0 :asiekierka!i=africalo@078088180066.elb.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1236506328 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is probably ill < 1236506333 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is working on a very interesting version of semantic logic that looks more like a sort of combinatory calculus < 1236506348 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't need to go to school :P < 1236506353 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION therefore can work on his projects < 1236506397 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which there are strictly monadic predicates and highly restricted dyadic predicates < 1236511522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster, ehird: GregorR rule? <-- in ABCDEF < 1236511538 0 :Asztal!n=moo@chunkybacon.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1236513073 0 :Jophish!n=Jophish@80-47-69-80.lond-hex.dynamic.dial.as9105.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1236513240 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@e-115.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1236515037 0 :Mony!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-80-194.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236516666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, there? < 1236516671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I disagree with mycology < 1236516684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FILE's 1R at end of file should reflect IMO < 1236516703 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's R < 1236516752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, read < 1236516767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R (h n -- h) Read n bytes from file to buffer < 1236516771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also: < 1236516777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"All file functions on failure act as r." < 1236516791 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does Myco say currently < 1236516820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAD: 1R reflected < 1236516829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bug (IMO) in cfunge made it pass < 1236516831 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what does it expect >_< < 1236516837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, it didn't reflect < 1236516854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, mycology expects 1R at end of file to not reflect < 1236516858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems < 1236516875 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, right < 1236516879 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, hmm < 1236516885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, but shouldn't it reflect if it read 0 bytes < 1236516890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO the logic should be like this: < 1236516918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bytes_actually_read = fread(buffer, bytes_program_want, filepointer) < 1236516928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (bytes_program_want != bytes_actually_read) { < 1236516931 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, indeed < 1236516948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (feof(filepointer)) { < 1236516958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (bytes_actually_read == 0) < 1236516967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return reflect(); < 1236516977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1236516995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, it shouldn't reflect if it managed to read *some* bytes < 1236517003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what do you think? < 1236517007 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What CCBI does now is essentially < 1236517012 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (wanted != read) { < 1236517020 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (ferror(handle)) { < 1236517025 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : clearerr(handle); < 1236517030 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : return reverse(); < 1236517033 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : } < 1236517043 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : else assert (feof(handle)); < 1236517045 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1236517078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, this is the logic I *want* http://dpaste.com/9631/ < 1236517098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you forgot to clear the feof? < 1236517109 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clear the feof? < 1236517119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The function feof() tests the end-of-file indicator for the stream pointed to by stream, returning non-zero if it is set. The end-of-file < 1236517119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : indicator can only be cleared by the function clearerr(). < 1236517138 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would I want to clear feof for some reason? < 1236517144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't you? < 1236517167 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearing ferror makes sense since it could be that it'll work later < 1236517175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1236517175 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you hit EOF, why clear it, EOF is EOF < 1236517188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, if you seek back you need to clear it < 1236517189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik < 1236517212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it will be there even if you seek or write < 1236517239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may be wrong, but it seems like that to me < 1236517243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the man page < 1236517265 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That seems really stupid to me < 1236517265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no < 1236517268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fseek clears it < 1236517269 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why should seek fail if it's at the EOF :-P < 1236517286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwrite won't < 1236517303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway, what do you think about the logic I suggest in http://dpaste.com/9631/ ? < 1236517303 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also stupid < 1236517317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, why? < 1236517336 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well why should fwrite fail just because it's at EOF < 1236517341 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or if it just doesn't clear it, then that's fine < 1236517348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, no it wont fail. It just won't clear it < 1236517354 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, and that's fine < 1236517362 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it /is/ at EOF so of course it should indicate that :-p < 1236517366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway: what about the logic in http://dpaste.com/9631/ ? < 1236517386 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why continue if it couldn't read what it wanted < 1236517395 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO reverse always if read != wanted < 1236517397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, because I read some bytes < 1236517403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems logical to return them < 1236517404 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but not as many as were requested < 1236517426 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, you don't write them to funge-space if you return < 1236517432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, true, but then we should also seek back to the point we were before the read < 1236517435 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you should still reverse IMO < 1236517438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236517447 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why seek? < 1236517474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well either seek back to the point before the fread() that failed to read as much, or write the read bytes to funge space < 1236517488 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, OK. I say do the latter. < 1236517490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering that we might not be reading from a normal file I think it is stupid to try to seek back < 1236517494 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And reflect. < 1236517503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if I opened a fifo file with FILE? < 1236517542 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about it? < 1236517559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, should the rest of the space we would have written otherwise be zero filled or should we just write as many bytes as we got? < 1236517575 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Write what you got, there can be zeroes in the file too < 1236517631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the program could figure it out with L... < 1236517650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so will you fix mycology to not say BAD on R reflecting due to end of file? < 1236517723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, as usual RCS specs doesn't say anything about what should happen btw < 1236517752 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And RC/Funge doesn't reflect, of course :-) < 1236517756 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNDEF? < 1236517761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1236517768 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh < 1236517772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if you test anything else with 1R there < 1236517773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not < 1236517917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so you mean something like this: http://dpaste.com/9640/ < 1236517969 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1236518265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so when will you upload a fixed mycology btw? < 1236518275 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When I feel like it < 1236518282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1236519708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, does the funge spec say that you have to use line buffered output anywhere? < 1236519725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, is there anything forbidding fully buffered output? < 1236519727 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y has that bit that says whether you use unbuffered or not < 1236519743 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For that, I suppose not, it's just not a good idea in practice :-P < 1236519763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it makes cfunge 20% faster on mycology. Sounds like a good idea to me ;) < 1236519774 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's a very bad idea :-P < 1236519789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, actually it is an option in cfunge nowdays, -b < 1236519815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also uses a larger buffer than default < 1236519924 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: better idea: make , a no-op < 1236519936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very funny < 1236519953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I always call fflush() before reading input. < 1236519957 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or even better: do a single getchar() at the end, if you get 'y' then flush your buffer, otherwise don't < 1236519967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, huh? < 1236519979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1236520042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it is a bad idea to make sarcastic comments about cfunge. You won't have anything left to say for jitfunge then < 1236520058 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My comments apply to *funge < 1236520085 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What will you say if picfunge will happen < 1236520088 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1236520133 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236520155 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll keep saying what I've been saying < 1236520222 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if someone writes a CPUfunge < 1236520265 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same differenec < 1236520374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1236520381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, this applies to CCBI too? < 1236520403 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it a *funge? ;-) < 1236520432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, depends on what sort of match that is < 1236520437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but cfunge doesn't match either < 1236520469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a *funge? <-- regex clearly < 1236520478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236520532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if the regex is: *funge < 1236520538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it matches CCBI's expanded name < 1236520544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it contains befunge < 1236520548 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What if it's a glob pattern? < 1236520599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm, does glob imply end of line? < 1236520605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I forgot < 1236520612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION uses regex mostly these days < 1236520876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway I think fizzie isn't working on jitfunge currently < 1236520901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think efunge will soon be ready for a first basic release. < 1236520916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it won't yet have ATHR, that work is ongoing but far from completed yet < 1236521238 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=arvid@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236522844 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Peace and Protection 4.22.2" < 1236526327 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-2-230.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236527698 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1236527715 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.128 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236527745 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[14:55] [Notify] ehird is online (irc.freenode.net). < 1236527747 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[14:55] [Away] ehird is away: Not online right now. Please leave a message after the beep. *BEEP* < 1236527755 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks, client < 1236527762 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you should check away /before/ notifying me? < 1236527782 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe I should blame it on the IRC spec for ISON and AWAY interacting so strangely < 1236528596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236528597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth < 1236528604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I found a CCBI and cfunge bug < 1236528606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need to debug more < 1236528713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, have you tested non-cardinal wrapping ? < 1236528717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, a bug that affects both of them? < 1236528720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean in y and x at once < 1236528722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, non-cardinal wrapping is a nightmare < 1236528730 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, it's in Mycology. < 1236528734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I tried wrapping -30,-18 < 1236528738 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I think I know how it's meant to work < 1236528741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it ended up wrong I think < 1236528758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think ccbi and cfunge are both wrong < 1236528765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they both use same algorithm < 1236528776 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is mycology also wrong? < 1236528815 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt CCBI's wrong since I do what the spec says, verbatim < 1236528832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to debug a bit more < 1236528897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1236528946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried several other values so it can't just be a coincidence that I land on the x, I tried changing the delta slightly to x and I still run into same issue. < 1236528950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pastebins < 1236528963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/YDQG4330.html < 1236528993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I was trying to figure out where the x should land. But it lands on itself < 1236529011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't think that is correct, when I changed 0a9+- to 0a8+- < 1236529015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it still does that < 1236529039 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not? < 1236529048 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's exactly what's supposed to happen if no other cells are in the path < 1236529049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, why should it be correct? < 1236529054 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lahey lines imply that you end up back where you started after making one loop around fungespace < 1236529060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's by definition < 1236529061 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The requirements for a line in Lahey-space are the following: Starting from the origin, no matter what direction you head, you eventually reach the origin. If you go the other way you reach the origin from the other direction. < 1236529081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure. But shouldn't you hit some other cell first? < 1236529096 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only if there's another cell on the line < 1236529106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can see one is < 1236529118 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, if your delta is (-2000000000,6), there are only three cells on the line < 1236529145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes indeed < 1236529521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236529586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually this is wrong I think. If the first jump is large enough that you end up in range in the other end already < 1236529605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ^ < 1236529776 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering about this esolang < 1236529782 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where there is a 240x160 map < 1236529785 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with 8 8x8 balls < 1236529793 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And blocks are also 8x8 < 1236529797 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Each block can have an assigned function < 1236529805 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and balls start moving in a predefined way < 1236529809 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have 1 or 8 at the beginning < 1236529812 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 2, 3, 4, 5, 6, 7 < 1236529820 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort-of sounds like you're deliberately making sure it isn't TC < 1236529824 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that isn't necessarily a bad thing < 1236529825 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236529833 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wanted to have an esolang that I can watch < 1236529844 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And 240x160 is in fact for the DS version < 1236529852 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236529855 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :30x20 in cells, btw :P < 1236529857 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reminds me of Paintfuck < 1236529859 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and will work on the GBA too < 1236529863 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh way < 1236529864 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait* < 1236529865 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a very watchable esolang < 1236529873 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should do a painting language < 1236529876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BackFlip's fun to watch too, actually, but sub-TC < 1236529954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ais523: http://rafb.net/p/QAzoUk37.html < 1236529958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that seem right? < 1236529971 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, there will be I/O commands: "Get_Button" for Input and "Draw_Line", "Draw_Pixel" for output < 1236529975 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely wonders whether to repaste that somewhere else based on the ehird demands < 1236529980 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get_Button would be o < 1236529981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:22:44 http://pastie.org/410691 < 1236529983 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Draw_Line would be - < 1236529985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's hot. < 1236529989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god shut up asiekierka < 1236529990 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Draw_Pixel would be ` < 1236529994 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god shut up ehird < 1236529997 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are in a maze of twisty little at signs, all alike < 1236530008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody cares about your same esolang repeated 5 thousand times over 70 lines that you give us every month < 1236530013 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1236530015 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a new idea < 1236530027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it? because i've heard it from you 20 times < 1236530030 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prove it < 1236530038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1236530040 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haha < 1236530046 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore we can't know if you really DID < 1236530048 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the x is menat to be (-20,-30)? < 1236530054 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my Befunge is rusty... < 1236530073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the x is at x = 18, y = 28 < 1236530087 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and with a delta of (-20,-30)? < 1236530094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are no other cells inside your fungespace on that line < 1236530099 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, inside the allocated portion < 1236530104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes I think AnMaster is the most annoying person in here. i retract that, he's super awesome. < 1236530104 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the rest is full of spaces so it'll be skipped < 1236530113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I think it should end up near the @ in the lower corner in the program < 1236530120 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1236530135 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :going one space forawrd is (38,58) which is outside your range < 1236530138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, -1 on edge gets you to first cell on opposite edge < 1236530142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO! < 1236530145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what you're doing wrong < 1236530149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:32:31 In your opinion, does 1 + 2 pow 2 + 2 pow 4 + 2 pow 6 + 2 pow 8 and so on make -1/3 in my opinion it does because in binary it is .......010101010101. and if you multiply it by three you get negative one, so therefore it is correct. Or you think the result is infinite? I would like to know your opinion < 1236530150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:34:55 Do you like to use FOWER instead of FOUR, or FIFE instead of FIVE < 1236530156 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungespace isn't a torus < 1236530157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it technically does. That is the effect. < 1236530158 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's lahey-space < 1236530161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who needs acid when you have quick-fire zzo38 questions < 1236530163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sure. But the effect is that < 1236530168 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it isn't < 1236530168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's all I'm saying < 1236530168 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not when flying < 1236530190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well even with this algorithm you get that effect when moving cardinally < 1236530193 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the next cell on your line is (38,58); the previous is (-2,-2) < 1236530194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, uppercaps NO from ais523? that's reserved for me! < 1236530197 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get that effect cardinally < 1236530202 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for a different reason < 1236530210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because when you're moving cardinally to the left, say < 1236530215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the previous cell is the cell to the right < 1236530218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm right. So what would the delta be to end up near: < 1236530220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : @ < 1236530222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@@ < 1236530224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the program < 1236530225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:45:09 O, and do esolang people have any preferences having to do with mahjong game < 1236530225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:50:09 Yes < 1236530229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who needs answers, either < 1236530237 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: where is that cell you're aiming for? < 1236530238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, while wrapping both x and y negatively < 1236530238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yes I am replying to you asiekierk!i=africalo@078088180066.elb.vectranet.pl <- :D < 1236530264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, what coordinates? < 1236530274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in http://rafb.net/p/wJZOqZ63.html it is the cell with ! < 1236530280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coordinates would be *checks* < 1236530319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :33,52 < 1236530321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1236530322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1236530325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :52,33 < 1236530326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather < 1236530346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if that is x,y < 1236530350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: can you please stop using rafb.net to paste? it's one or two seconds saved at your end vs annoyance for everyone else later on < 1236530352 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so going forwards would be a delta of (52-18,33-28) which is (36,5) < 1236530365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore, to do it wrapping you need a delta of (-36,-5) < 1236530374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1236530378 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with lahey-wrapping, you can't reach a cell by wrapping unless you could reach it going backwards < 1236530390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I find flying IP incredibly hard to think at < 1236530391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in* < 1236530411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:39 ehird: AnMaster: can you please stop using rafb.net to paste? it's one or two seconds saved at your end vs annoyance for everyone else later on < 1236530466 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: my reply to that is at http://pastebin.ca/1355862 < 1236530470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err that doesn't work either... < 1236530481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION steps through code < 1236530485 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we may have the coordinates worng < 1236530487 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*wrong < 1236530499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, pastebin.ca times out all the time for me... < 1236530509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's useful for when looking at the logs, when e.g. finding code that was made before that is being looked for now, finding the code someone answered to a question, .. < 1236530517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't been able to access it for over half a year < 1236530519 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but the timeout on that comment is only 5 minutes < 1236530524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's utterly useless for any logreader < 1236530534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's bad < 1236530544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you seem to be missing the fundamental nature of IRC here... < 1236530568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You seem to like saying that whenever I say something you disagree with: you're absolutely fundamentally missing the point. < 1236530575 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: try (-33,-5) < 1236530579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works nicely as an alternative to making real arguments, I guess. < 1236530588 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I mean, it's transient < 1236530595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you think freenode have the rule against unannounced public logs? < 1236530601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's because it breaks the expectations most people have of IRC < 1236530606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm ok < 1236530609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's transient! of course! Let's kick clog. < 1236530617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clog: stop it. IRC is transient. People shouldn't be able to read things after they happen. < 1236530625 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clog is rather unusual, it's trying to make #esoteric into something that isn't that common on IRC < 1236530630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, how many IRC channels are logged? < 1236530637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most of the high profile ones. < 1236530638 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably more on Freenode than on most other networks, tbh < 1236530643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that gets me to another place < 1236530648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not exactly the right one < 1236530651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION debugs again < 1236530654 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, probably I miscounted < 1236530661 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to count via mousehover < 1236530668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me count in an edit box, that's more reliable < 1236530693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one cell off < 1236530701 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(-34,-5) < 1236530702 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be < 1236530704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did miscount < 1236530725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1236530764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how fast is this to load? http://dpaste.com/ < 1236530783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately no never-expire option, so forget that < 1236530798 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: expecting pastebins to keep the things you write never expiring is crazy < 1236530807 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like wanting random internet sites to give you free hosting forever < 1236530807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: pastie does it. pastebin.com can do it. < 1236530813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plenty of them do it. < 1236530818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, plain text takes up roughly no space. < 1236530819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, around 5 seconds < 1236530833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the solution to all this is to have a dedicated #esoteric pastebin, that can keep things around forever < 1236530846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that loads as fast as rafb < 1236530851 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :preferably on a site run by one of us < 1236530857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rafb loads in ~1 second here < 1236530863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a clean browser cache < 1236530870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it needs a command line paste tool < 1236530874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like wgetpaste < 1236531055 0 :jorrdi!n=jordi@199.Red-88-18-187.staticIP.rima-tde.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236531080 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@a91-153-121-248.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1236531081 0 :jorrdi!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1236531206 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who was jorrdi, I wonder? < 1236531218 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I was writing an Enigma level over the last couple of days < 1236531249 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone here know a pastebin that complies with both ehird's and AnMaster's standards and also accepts XML with embedded Lua? < 1236531264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236531272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean highlighting that? < 1236531279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1236531280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, I was being slightly sarcastic < 1236531291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I thought people here might want to take a look at it < 1236531314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for it to be useful to me it needs to highlight C and have a plain text mode. More languages are a bonus < 1236531317 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is anyone interested in watching my desktop < 1236531334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I like support for bash, erlang and scheme especially < 1236531350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and paste.lisp.org would be ok apart from having to enter, or script entering a captcha < 1236531365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"script entering a captcha"? < 1236531367 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps have it written in such a way that it could easily have highlighting modules added... < 1236531372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's always 'lisp'. < 1236531374 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is something very very wrong with that phrase < 1236531400 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that users of the pastebin could suggest highlighters, which could get added rather quickly... < 1236531411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pastes on filebin.ca < 1236531421 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because people are more likely to want to run the program than read it < 1236531440 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange, epiphany crashed < 1236531470 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://filebin.ca/fdzyqw/ais52301_1.xml < 1236531479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Enigma has a naming convention for filenames...) < 1236531489 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pastebin.ca is rather nice... Has a "raw" link, making it easy to download, and still has a nice highlighted text thing... < 1236531495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you save that as ~/.enigma/levels/auto/ais52301_1.xml it should show up in the game < 1236531503 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the "auto" level pack < 1236531508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: pastie.org is nicer < 1236531516 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's still slightly buggy < 1236531517 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Hmm. Good to know. < 1236531519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has all of those things and less clutter < 1236531521 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For what it's worth I'm instantly turned off by non-binary files which are served with a MIME type that browsers want to save instead of view < 1236531535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: it may as well be binary, it's a crazy enough format... < 1236531542 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: Is anyone interested in watching my desktop <<< not if you're sharing it knowingly. < 1236531548 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, missing an auxiliary clause there, it's not the MIME type that's being saved < 1236531565 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is application/xml too hard to serve up or something? < 1236531577 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's mostly written in Lua, just with an XML wrapper < 1236531588 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what kinda level is it? < 1236531593 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: an intelligence-based level < 1236531596 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also a game < 1236531600 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in easy mode, it's a 2-player game < 1236531605 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in hard mode, it's a 1-player game against an AI < 1236531635 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so with easy mode, the level can be solved very quickly if both players are cooperating, because either player winning wins the level < 1236531646 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to complete it in hard mode is much slower as you have to beat the computer AI, and it won't be cooperating < 1236531670 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I took quite a lot of effort making the intelligence the main problem about the level < 1236531701 0 :antirafb!n=antirafb@91.105.77.124 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236531704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/wJZOqZ63.html < 1236531707 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on their rating rules, I rate it about speed 1, dexterity 2, intelligence 5, knowledge either 3 or 6 (I'm not sure which), and patience maybe about 3 < 1236531709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1236531713 0 :antirafb!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236531743 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, what's the difference between speed and dexterity? < 1236531745 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236531753 0 :antirafb!n=antirafb@91.105.77.124 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236531754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/wJZOqZ63.html < 1236531754 0 :antirafb!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236531758 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on second thought i guess that's pretty obvious < 1236531776 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: dexterity's how easy it is to put the level in an unwinnable situation, or die, due to the mouse equivalent of a typo < 1236531777 0 :antirafb!n=antirafb@91.105.77.124 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236531783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/wJZOqZ63.html < 1236531784 0 :antirafb!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236531797 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah yeah right < 1236531813 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas a high speed means you have to play the level quickly to avoid dying < 1236531824 0 :antirafb!n=antirafb@91.105.77.124 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236531825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/wJZOqZ63.html < 1236531826 0 :antirafb!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236531832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Close, close indeed. < 1236531852 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohh testing a bot < 1236531866 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought you were telling everyone who joins about your cool paste :D < 1236531956 0 :antirafb!n=antirafb@91.105.77.124 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236531957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/wJZOqZ63.html < 1236531958 0 :antirafb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: < 1236531962 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1236531965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, lol. < 1236531969 0 :antirafb!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236531991 0 :antirafb!n=antirafb@91.105.77.124 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236531991 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, not another Brainfuck derivative < 1236531991 0 :antirafb!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236531996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that manages to be sub-TC, somehow < 1236531999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: groan < 1236532000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link? < 1236532002 0 :antirafb!n=antirafb@91.105.77.124 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236532003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/wJZOqZ63.html < 1236532004 0 :antirafb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ITYM http://pastie.org/private/bjrfso3nuwmpj5ntxhhmug < 1236532006 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esolangs.org/wiki/ParrBF < 1236532012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great success! < 1236532020 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: why a private pastie? < 1236532028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so it doesn't show up in the recent pastes list < 1236532033 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ask #esoteric: should I remap '%' in vim < 1236532037 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because typing it really annoys me < 1236532043 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ParrBF = lol < 1236532044 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Is it clever enough to try something else if pastie times out or fails? < 1236532046 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are you planning to remap it to? < 1236532056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: no, it also only handles one rafb.net paste per line < 1236532061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there you go < 1236532062 0 :tombom!i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1236532065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works well enough < 1236532073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to put it on rutian < 1236532074 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Handling more than one shouldn't be too tough < 1236532076 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: dunno < 1236532077 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/paste/itdoesntexist < 1236532077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: if you say Bayes, *krrtch* < 1236532079 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe capslock :p < 1236532083 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1236532090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/diediedie.html < 1236532091 0 :antirafb!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236532091 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/itdoesntexist < 1236532095 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236532106 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that a feature? :-P < 1236532115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Deewiant: http://rafb.net/p/rwSMXZ13.html, as far as I know mycology didn't test wrapping -y < 1236532118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all < 1236532126 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it doesn't < 1236532126 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or \ < 1236532133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that program does. < 1236532134 0 :antirafb!n=antirafb@91.105.77.124 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236532135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/diediedie.html < 1236532135 0 :antirafb!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fu ehird < 1236532146 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume that if -x and x work then -y and y do as well < 1236532150 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo ParrBF looks fairly interesting, you're executing a brainfuck program for each cell in parallel < 1236532159 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming [ and ] are defined like that < 1236532166 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather, I don't assume anything since I don't use y wrapping at all < 1236532167 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't really tell from that. < 1236532167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, You assumed your TURT worked iirc. It turned out it didn't < 1236532169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236532175 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works nicely < 1236532182 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you're limited to a finite number of cells like that, though < 1236532186 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well sure, I assume stuff works if there's no known case where it fails < 1236532206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I assume stuff is broken unless I written a test case to test it :) < 1236532208 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not hardcore enough to go about things the other way < 1236532226 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I did test TURT, though < 1236532227 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: true, but i think "ipc" between cells might be kinda interesting < 1236532237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes, but not very detailed < 1236532244 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. assuming [ and ] are global < 1236532256 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: So do you assume that all possible execution paths through cfunge are bugged, except the ones you've tested? < 1236532276 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Point being, complete testing is impossible. < 1236532290 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least in this universe, without time travel. < 1236532301 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, prove it or ..shoove it < 1236532302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, no, but I try to test all paths < 1236532308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course I can't fully < 1236532330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I try to test as much as I can < 1236532364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, stuff like fuzz testing helped a lot during one period. Nowdays I don't really find anything new with fuzz testing. < 1236532595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : pastebin.ca is rather nice... Has a "raw" link, making it easy to download, and still has a nice highlighted text thing... <-- except I can't resolve the IP. I always get DNS timeout for pastebin.ca < 1236532616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : For what it's worth I'm instantly turned off by non-binary files which are served with a MIME type that browsers want to save instead of view <-- same < 1236532705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how does one run engima on a file? Or where/how does one install a level < 1236532727 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: copy it to ~/.enigma/levels/auto < 1236532734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :auto? < 1236532734 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's automatically made into the Open It Up levelpack < 1236532742 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* the Auto levelpack < 1236532745 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did I manage that? < 1236532746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1236532765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the auto level pack? < 1236532773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember seeing that < 1236532787 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you go to all level packs, you'll see it < 1236532802 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and its empty most of the time, until you put things into auto to be automatically made into levelpacks < 1236532844 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ustream.tv/channel/asietv - i'm broadcasting my desktop O_O < 1236532884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am only interested if I can take control of your machine and deltree /y. < 1236532901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god your voice. < 1236532901 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: "deltree /y" doesn't do anything, that's missing one argument < 1236532912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It's a verb like "rm -rf". < 1236532988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is morbidly interesting. < 1236532993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err, how do I switch ball then? < 1236533008 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: in easy mode, there's a yinyang lying around < 1236533009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in hard mode, you'll find the white ball is AI-controlled < 1236533009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah found it < 1236533029 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy's a bit boring unless you have someone else to play against, thoguh < 1236533029 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*though < 1236533036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka pronounces ehird as "eh erd" < 1236533037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DD < 1236533038 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's a 2-player game < 1236533038 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, AKA. ustreamer-55605 :P < 1236533041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, that is a logic level. *prefers action ones* < 1236533049 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, it's a logic level < 1236533051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oklopol will now lynch you. < 1236533054 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That's how I pronounced it at first too, until you told me how < 1236533063 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :logic levels and action levels are both fun to play < 1236533068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but logic levels are a lot more fun to write < 1236533075 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if you write an AI for them < 1236533076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes, it's funny because asiekierka is polish. Or something. < 1236533090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how is it pronounced then? < 1236533094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ee herd < 1236533098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :longe < 1236533100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no i sound? < 1236533100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :long e < 1236533103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, asiekierka. < 1236533106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: in the herd. < 1236533123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: write pong in Enigma! < 1236533133 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1236533136 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 'i sound' means approximately nothing in English < 1236533140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : long e < 1236533140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : yes, asiekierka. <-- wait did asiekierka say something? < 1236533149 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I was plannign that < 1236533152 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1236533153 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*planning < 1236533154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i'm listening to his grating voice while watching his screen. < 1236533155 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster < 1236533157 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okoko? < 1236533157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ustream.tv/channel/asietv < 1236533158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he/she isn't on ignore... < 1236533159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs flash. < 1236533161 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AI might be quite difficult < 1236533179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not really, perfect pong AI is pretty trivial, no? < 1236533191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: moving the white marble around isn't < 1236533196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1236533201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: surround it by blocks < 1236533203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the paddle < 1236533207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hitting a block moves it down or up < 1236533219 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you listen very carefully to that Enigma level I pasted, you'll hear a repetitive clink-clink-clink in the background < 1236533230 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what's moving the white marble < 1236533238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't tried it yet < 1236533241 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :via a really rather convoluted set of code < 1236533253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, for pong wouldn't you use one of those small white balls? < 1236533261 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: possibly, or maybe a bug or a horse < 1236533263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1236533268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you mean the player *plays the ball? < 1236533273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*plays** < 1236533275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the player plays the paddle < 1236533278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg < 1236533278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236533279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :playing the ball < 1236533281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be amazing < 1236533282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DD < 1236533284 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be < 1236533285 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/aɪ/ /ɑe/ /əɪ/ /ɪ/ /ə/ /ː/ /ɚ/ are all possible 'i sounds' in English, there are probably a bunch more when you consider the various dialects < 1236533290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :getting batted around and trying to help one paddle < 1236533291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not sure how to make it interesting though < 1236533300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to work as pong, you'd need to fill the center of the level as space < 1236533302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well you're being batted against your will < 1236533302 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enigma level? < 1236533304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you need to follow the correct path to not hit hidden death blocks? < 1236533305 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need more enigma levels < 1236533305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you're on one AI's side < 1236533309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have to beat the other one < 1236533309 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to play the ball, you'd make it ice instead < 1236533311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the ball < 1236533311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1236533314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about that ehird ? < 1236533314 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have some control but not much < 1236533321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno < 1236533327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just know playing the ball in pong would be amazing < 1236533331 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: make up some enigma puzzle involving enigma < 1236533339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1236533343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make a game of life in enigma < 1236533345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ really good idea < 1236533347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1236533350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, has been done < 1236533354 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: http://filebin.ca/fdzyqw/ais52301_1.xml < 1236533357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't remember level name < 1236533362 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has been done < 1236533368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:58 ais523: if you save that as ~/.enigma/levels/auto/ais52301_1.xml it should show up in the game < 1236533376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to find out where that is on os x < 1236533382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, :D < 1236533382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure where you have to save it on windows or OS X < 1236533396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be same place < 1236533398 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's going to be somewhere with a similar directory structure, though, probably < 1236533402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~/Library/Application Support/Enigma/levels/ < 1236533404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sane apps use ~/.* on all systems < 1236533408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is global one < 1236533410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(/auto/) < 1236533411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no < 1236533412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ < 1236533413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~/Library < 1236533414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which ah < 1236533416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1236533423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using . for a GUI app on OS X is considered very bad style < 1236533449 0 :antirafb!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236533458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, How is the program to know? There is no POSIX API that tells it preferred location afaik < 1236533458 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye antirafb < 1236533471 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's something that nearly always goes in the packaging < 1236533473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If you're writing an OS X app, you know about it, because you're using Cocoa. < 1236533481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :via a makefile variable or something equivalent if you aren't using makefiles < 1236533487 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :locations for stuff is a packaging problem, not a programming problem < 1236533488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or some cross-platform toolkit, but you're getting an inferior experience there on OS X anyway. < 1236533497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but engima runs on Linux. Which means it is either ported or using such a toolkit < 1236533502 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qt for example has a function for that < 1236533504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It uses SDL. < 1236533507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it'll just do < 1236533512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (on_osx) { dir = '...'; } < 1236533514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple enough < 1236533515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not much work < 1236533516 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for instance, C-INTERCAL doesn't hardcode locations nowadays, it takes them from makefile variables < 1236533523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, means you have to know about OS X *shrug* < 1236533525 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which finds the locations via autoconf < 1236533533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you have to know about os x to produce a well-crafted os x app? < 1236533536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zee oh em gee < 1236533547 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blame apple < 1236533551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, true, but point is OS X pretends to be *nix. < 1236533553 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have a X11 implementation, but it sucks < 1236533556 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, for that level, I recommend you play on hard if you don't have a second human handy to play against < 1236533558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact it is < 1236533558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X11 sucks. < 1236533563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: umm, no pretending. < 1236533569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, " in fact it is" < 1236533577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is unix, and for command-line apps, .foo is fine < 1236533578 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka's life is so interesting < 1236533578 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe, but not nearly as bad as X11.app sucks < 1236533582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just GUI apps have a different structure < 1236533584 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :full of recursion < 1236533587 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and infinities < 1236533591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: meh, I wouldn't want to use X11.app anyway :P < 1236533597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I am going to try it < 1236533609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I set hard? < 1236533611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The bronze medal thing> < 1236533618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you all forgot OpenWindows! < 1236533620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1236533622 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it could be a lot better though < 1236533630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh < 1236533631 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does everything need to be arduously ported to cocoa? < 1236533639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what? < 1236533639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: because it has different UI guidelines < 1236533645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't just do that automatically < 1236533649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a totally different design < 1236533657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's why OS X apps are so good < 1236533658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1236533662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how do you set difficulty? < 1236533680 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird < 1236533681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is (or rather: was) wrong with OpenWindows? < 1236533682 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bullshit < 1236533684 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things like < 1236533689 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qt mac, gimp native etc < 1236533691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: I'm really uninterested. < 1236533692 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aren't as good as native apps < 1236533693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're wasting your time < 1236533696 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're a lot better than x11.app < 1236533697 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::u < 1236533708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, ais523: ping. < 1236533734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ...? < 1236533742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously < 1236533757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I a m u i n t e r e s t e d a n d t r y i n g t o p l a y a i s 5 2 3 ' s l e v e l < 1236533769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/OpenWindows < 1236533772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I a m u i n t e r e s t e d a n d t r y i n g t o p l a y a i s 5 2 3 ' s l e v e l < 1236533772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I a m u i n t e r e s t e d a n d t r y i n g t o p l a y a i s 5 2 3 ' s l e v e l < 1236533773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sun thing < 1236533774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was great < 1236533777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1236533778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I a m u i n t e r e s t e d a n d t r y i n g t o p l a y a i s 5 2 3 ' s l e v e l < 1236533778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I a m u i n t e r e s t e d a n d t r y i n g t o p l a y a i s 5 2 3 ' s l e v e l < 1236533780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I a m u i n t e r e s t e d a n d t r y i n g t o p l a y a i s 5 2 3 ' s l e v e l < 1236533787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, AnMaster: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh <-- ?? < 1236533787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, AnMaster: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh <-- ?? < 1236533788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, AnMaster: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh <-- ?? < 1236533788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, AnMaster: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh <-- ?? < 1236533789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every thing you say increases the amount of times I'll say that. < 1236533793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, AnMaster: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh <-- ?? < 1236533794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I a m u i n t e r e s t e d a n d t r y i n g t o p l a y a i s 5 2 3 ' s l e v e l < 1236533795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I a m u i n t e r e s t e d a n d t r y i n g t o p l a y a i s 5 2 3 ' s l e v e l < 1236533796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I a m u i n t e r e s t e d a n d t r y i n g t o p l a y a i s 5 2 3 ' s l e v e l < 1236533798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I a m u i n t e r e s t e d a n d t r y i n g t o p l a y a i s 5 2 3 ' s l e v e l < 1236533800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I a m u i n t e r e s t e d a n d t r y i n g t o p l a y a i s 5 2 3 ' s l e v e l < 1236533805 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, SHUT UP < 1236533806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, do grow up < 1236533815 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can't hear the radiophonewaves of my teleradiovision < 1236533816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: tell AnMaster to stop bugging me about shit I don't care about and I will. < 1236533816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION agrees with asiekierka there < 1236533822 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun to see all the kids yelling random stuff :D < 1236533827 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(see/hear) < 1236533839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka, tell ehird that I will stop as soon as ehird explains what he meant with " AnMaster: aaaaaaaaaaaaaaagh" < 1236533850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: have fun, but you're on ignore now. < 1236533855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how do you set difficulty? < 1236533858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The icons are rather obscure. < 1236533880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw tell ehird he is ignored < 1236533887 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: have fun, but you're on ignore now. < 1236533889 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : btw tell ehird he is ignored < 1236533903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1236533907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't tell me AnMaster is lying < 1236533912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought he would never stop until I explained?! < 1236533916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can never trust his word again :< < 1236533917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka, I didn't see that first line < 1236533977 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so much social porn here today < 1236534025 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"social porn"? what's that, group masturbation? < 1236534076 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's this term some people use. < 1236534137 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1236534154 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw asiekierka's going to sing a song, better join the fun) < 1236534190 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236534193 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I am < 1236534203 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am... < 1236534204 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236534205 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...NOT! < 1236534242 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1236534248 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds awesome :o < 1236534256 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you record some of that for me? < 1236534257 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the first recorded sound of a human being < 1236534259 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236534269 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google "First Sounds" < 1236534271 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1860 btw < 1236534281 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! < 1236534286 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it sounds awesome. < 1236534675 0 :ais523!i=93bc93e6@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-1e005fbbea5fbd34 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236534679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1236534682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm playing your level < 1236534685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whyyy does the ai move so jerky < 1236534699 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it was hard to get it to move at all < 1236534708 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing that's controlling the ai white marble is a second black marble off the screen < 1236534713 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's repeatedly bouncing on a flash stone < 1236534713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL < 1236534729 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it gives a lot more control than the usual gradient method < 1236534730 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can i play it < 1236534737 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the level < 1236534737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: download enigma < 1236534740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :put it in the right place < 1236534740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :run it < 1236534740 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i has < 1236534743 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: which OS are you on? < 1236534746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows < 1236534756 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know where the right place is on Windows < 1236534758 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i can't just open some level pack which connects straight to ais :| < 1236534766 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW 70'S < 1236534787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck < 1236534792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that damn ai got me beat again < 1236534816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I've just read the manual < 1236534822 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you load enigma and go into options < 1236534828 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should tell you where the "User Path" is < 1236534838 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to store the level in levels/auto on the user path < 1236534870 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my level's still slightly buggy < 1236534884 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes the AI gets lost if it's trying to do a large push on the left-most group of blocks < 1236534892 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think I know how that's fixed, just haven't been bothered to < 1236535149 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay didn't work, tried suffices ".lev" and "" < 1236535158 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.xml is the suffix < 1236535162 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1236535165 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as is suggested in the URL < 1236535221 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but it was xml, so i thought the .xml was because of that :) < 1236535227 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once it's offline, it becomes a level < 1236535228 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236535236 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1236535239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude. an Ian owns n@ai < 1236535243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is so fucking cool. < 1236535251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes no sense < 1236535262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it does < 1236535263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ai. < 1236535269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tld < 1236535270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has an mx record < 1236535276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ai/ <-- the nic < 1236535291 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nm < 1236535293 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: solved my level yet? < 1236535301 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: got my level working yet? < 1236535301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, the ai is smarter than me. < 1236535310 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, now i get an error < 1236535314 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there two files by any chance? < 1236535315 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy is human vs. human and you get the oxyds no matter who wins, so it's easy < 1236535319 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: just the one < 1236535321 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what error, btw? < 1236535330 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll look < 1236535346 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err utfformatexception < 1236535357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that's very weird < 1236535364 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the character encoding's got muddled somehow < 1236535367 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so probably like a copy paste problem < 1236535370 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I know what it might be < 1236535385 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try opening the level, and saving it as a windows-format text file < 1236535390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :text files are different on windows... < 1236535482 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :There is no "i" in UBUNTU | WARNING: Very Mad (Statistical) Science | Logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236535497 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: what did youchange? < 1236535505 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Mad" to "Very Mad" < 1236535544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: still trying? < 1236535555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I think it's impossible < 1236535561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is possible < 1236535564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, because I've done it < 1236535591 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could reveal the winning sequence of moves here, but that would spoil it for everyone else < 1236535599 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augh < 1236535605 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is worth mentioning that the AI is good enough to win if you make even a single mistake < 1236535610 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so hard you have to be incredibly good to even get it working < 1236535620 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :There is no "i" in UBUNTU | WARNING: Very Mad (Statistical) Science | Logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ | [this space left intentionally blanketh] < 1236535636 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I guess it's harder on windows than on linux, it was pretty easy for me and ehird to get it working... < 1236535647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: what is the error? < 1236535651 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: did you try? < 1236535658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he said he hated it < 1236535659 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something about an illegal character or something < 1236535660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it was intelligence based < 1236535663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, try what? < 1236535664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the level? < 1236535666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he likes mindless action. < 1236535670 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1236535678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: copy the file to the folder instead of copypasting the contents < 1236535689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes but I prefer exploring levels rather than logic puzzle ones < 1236535692 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah if only that was easy to do. < 1236535697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I gave up < 1236535698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boring < 1236535702 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm wondering if it's because the file has \n newlines not \n\r newlines < 1236535710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236535715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's utf problems < 1236535717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows uses utf 16 < 1236535720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your file is probably utf-8 < 1236535728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it have special characters in? < 1236535730 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that's insane < 1236535733 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no special characters AFAIR < 1236535739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it have a utf-8 bom mark? < 1236535741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remove it if so < 1236535744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is? < 1236535745 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't think so < 1236535750 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's copied from a template level < 1236535755 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't decide where to dl stuff to on firefox (when i start a download), they just go directly on my desktop, which is full, and you can't scroll it on windows. < 1236535759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a BOM may have survived all the way through < 1236535764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: AnMaster has me on ignore, for the record < 1236535771 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: go to My Documents/Desktop via the file manager < 1236535774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I didn't answer his question about openwindows after he kept asking me about it < 1236535778 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could, in theory. < 1236535781 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that version is scrollable < 1236535786 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i also should. < 1236535801 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just i get very pissed when oses are stupider than humans. < 1236535813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, what happens on windows when desktop is full? < 1236535817 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : then why are you using Windows? < 1236535825 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nothing, it continues to add icons but there's no way to click on them < 1236535827 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff just goes off screen and cannot be touched :D < 1236535834 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you know the trick I just told oklopol < 1236535839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wait, where are they? Outside the screen? < 1236535844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236535846 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where else? < 1236535852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least a sane OS would put them on top of each other < 1236535857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be confusing but less so < 1236535891 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: personally, I think a sane OS wouldn't put thinks on the desktop unless the user wanted them there < 1236535899 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have 5 desktop icons, 6 when I have a USB stick in < 1236535907 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they're all things I only want to use just after boot < 1236535915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus desktop should be clean: Trash, ~, media:/ + a few recently downloaded files. On windows that would be: Trash, My Documents, My Computer < 1236535918 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm sorry, 6 or 7 nowadays < 1236535926 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a desktop on Linux; on Windows my desktop is empty < 1236535946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have ~, the wireless network application, and four music playlists as desktop icons < 1236535957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also have a few PDFs there: C99, POSIX.1-2008, AMD64 Reference manual < 1236535984 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: got it working yet? < 1236535989 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phone < 1236536041 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay not phone < 1236536046 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i found it < 1236536059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it working? and can /you/ beat the AI? < 1236536067 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's the download option, but you can't see where it's going to dl it to < 1236536073 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then the download window opens < 1236536083 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the earlier versions the dl folder was on the bottom < 1236536086 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not anymore < 1236536090 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I programmed it all in the subset of Lua that I could deduce from the example levels I saw < 1236536090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw what is the gradient movement you mentioned < 1236536093 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had to open a fucking menu to see it < 1236536094 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grrr < 1236536096 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means no loops except by recursion < 1236536099 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'll try it. < 1236536106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's just c style stuff < 1236536112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you move things by changing the floor underneath them temporarily to a gradient and back again < 1236536118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for i = 0, 10, 2 < 1236536120 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's rather hard to do fine control like that, though < 1236536122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from 0 to 10 stepping 2 < 1236536130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while foo do end < 1236536133 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it looks ugly unless you set the floor to one you can write a gradient on < 1236536135 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ah, ok < 1236536138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :repeat foo until bar < 1236536142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was doing all my looping via recursion... < 1236536143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can use 'break' < 1236536150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's all lua's loops, as far as I know < 1236536170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, one more < 1236536174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for x in y do foo end < 1236536183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can do: for key, value in ipairs(table) do ... end < 1236536185 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would y be there? < 1236536194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a table < 1236536194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1236536195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an array < 1236536197 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ipairs I've never heard of < 1236536199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it discards the tabley stuff < 1236536203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ipairs just changes < 1236536207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ x = y, foo = bar } < 1236536208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :into < 1236536209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, do table keys have to be valid identifier names? < 1236536211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{{x,y},{foo,bar}} < 1236536214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, dunno < 1236536215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know lua < 1236536217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, no < 1236536220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's any object < 1236536221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just remembered < 1236536222 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been getting obscure bugs when I try to use numbers as table keys < 1236536231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1236536233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what arrays do < 1236536234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prepending a letter it seems to work < 1236536238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ 1,2,3 } is a table < 1236536241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like PHP < 1236536252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, {x=1, y=2, z=3} is a table I think < 1236536257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236536261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tables are the only complex datastructure in lua < 1236536261 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1236536271 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is what happens when you try to learn a language by example... < 1236536287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also has a crazy thing called metatables, that let you use tables to make objects < 1236536296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lua_(programming_language) pretty much describes all of lua < 1236536389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has anyone made Enigma tic tac toe? < 1236536452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know of an implementation of that < 1236536456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might try, it wouldn't be too hard < 1236536463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, ipairs is pairs with just integers, I think < 1236536466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pairs gives you the key/value pairs < 1236536471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I'd like to tryu < 1236536480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll rip off your code :D < 1236536489 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm actually using that level as a template < 1236536493 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you have to delete most of it < 1236536503 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are some subtleties in the header that need changing < 1236536563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I strongly advise reading the reference docs before creating a level < 1236536607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1236536609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that true btw < 1236536613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :27sec?! < 1236536616 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, those are both genuine times < 1236536618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easy is human v human < 1236536626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but it can't be that fast surely < 1236536629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you play the best possible strategy as one and the worst as the other < 1236536640 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and win in 3 moves < 1236536675 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(player 1: take all of the rightmost group, player 2: take all of the middle group, player 1: take all of the left group oh no I lost, player 2: oh look I won (gets oxyds) < 1236536679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1236536691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, you're just good with the mouse then < 1236536692 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easy to complete the level pretty quickly like that < 1236536710 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the hard mode actually requires skill to complete < 1236536712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :levelh = 13 < 1236536712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :levelw = 39 < 1236536715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder what that means. < 1236536721 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :size of the level < 1236536722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, is that the standard screen size? < 1236536723 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13 by 20 is one screen < 1236536726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236536737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you add an extra 12 to give another screen of height, and an extra 19 to give another screen of width < 1236536841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you really need to change the headers to prevent the whole thing borking < 1236536847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I'm trying < 1236536857 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need a unique ID for the level, and there's a scheme to make sure they don't collide < 1236536878 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the release starts at one, score starts at 1 and increases every time you make a change to a released version that changes scoring compatibility < 1236536884 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and revision goes up by 1 or more every change < 1236536900 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the status should be "experimental" not "released" while you're editing the level < 1236536905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what bozo designed this shit < 1236536910 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it doesn't care about compatibility between different versions of it < 1236536932 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in case you haven't guessed, the format was designed as a merger between multiple incompatible formats < 1236536971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh < 1236536979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : which means no loops except by recursion <-- err... why? < 1236536983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :backwards compatibility strikes once again < 1236536991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: he onlyused the lua he learned from other levels < 1236536996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which didn't include loops, apparently < 1236537004 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: using only the subset of Lua that I could reverse-engineer from the levels I looked at < 1236537010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236537013 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and none of the ones I looked at contained loops < 1236537021 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but function definitions were there aplenty, so I just used recursion < 1236537023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, yeah, AnMaster is ignoring me. < 1236537024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun fun. < 1236537031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, iirc it is something quite like C loops. But I may misremember < 1236537040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gee, I wonder who told him that < 1236537045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it was me. < 1236537065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must be an esoprogrammer... < 1236537076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Why do you think so? < 1236537101 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I'm trying to find any method of writing in a broken language rather than getting a better language < 1236537108 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do i win or lose if the ai gets stuck in an infinite loop? < 1236537109 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where in this case, the broken language is a random subset of Lua < 1236537113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah < 1236537116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: lose, I think < 1236537122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that should be a win < 1236537125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a sort of < 1236537125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you hit that bug where it goes back and forth in the leftmost group? < 1236537126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meta-win < 1236537128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a third condition < 1236537130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a lose because you don't get the oxyds < 1236537146 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you put the level into an unwinnable situation... < 1236537148 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you should probably mention you can't move the blocks in any order. < 1236537160 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236537162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean by that? < 1236537163 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh! < 1236537178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be pretty obvious after a while what the rules for moving blocks are < 1236537190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are rules? < 1236537193 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, the what is relatively easy to deduce, the level's all about the how < 1236537194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just did whatever it let me < 1236537194 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but i thought it was a bug that occurred because i moved them at random < 1236537211 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean not from bottom up < 1236537220 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, blocks leave grates behind when you push them with bombs on, and the bombs explode when you go back to the top < 1236537233 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no, it's a known bug < 1236537236 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah okay i see < 1236537239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well right < 1236537240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think I know how to fix it but can't be bothered right now < 1236537257 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means, the only way to get into one of the groups is via the one-way blocks at the top < 1236537270 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means that on your turn, you can sink any number of blocks from any one of the groups < 1236537277 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can't sink blocks from more than one group < 1236537283 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on that, you need to make the AI sink the last block < 1236537285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1236537292 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the what < 1236537294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just thought there were non-physical rules < 1236537298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, the how is the interesting part... < 1236537301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., it is possible to cheat in a non-bug way < 1236537306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seemed to be what you implied < 1236537309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1236537310 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: grates springing up when you move the block is a non-physical rule < 1236537312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although a subtle one < 1236537318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236537319 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no way to cheat that I know odf < 1236537320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*of < 1236537321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh it says world record for that level (on easy) < 1236537321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're not meant to go on the block? < 1236537324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1236537331 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"on the block"? < 1236537334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very boring level IMO. But I have a different taste < 1236537346 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to use the block as a bridge to leave the group < 1236537354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah < 1236537358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can use any of the blocks you pushed < 1236537360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but are you allowed to go under the grate < 1236537363 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by analogy, this means you need to sink one block < 1236537370 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and going under the grate will kill you < 1236537372 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an abyss there < 1236537376 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it's a grate you created that turn < 1236537381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case it's just a bomb < 1236537383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant created this term < 1236537391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's created that turn, fine < 1236537396 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it won't let you break the rules of the level < 1236537400 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph it got stuck again. < 1236537404 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how were you ever getting back up to the top without going under the grates? < 1236537409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Think about that for a minute. It computes the answers. Wolfram Alpha doesn't simply contain huge amounts of manually entered pairs of questions and answers, nor does it search for answers in a database of facts. Instead, it understands and then computes answers to certain kinds of questions." < 1236537414 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i'll solve this on paper < 1236537424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we stop with the "Wolfram Alpha is strong AI out of Stephen Wolfram's magical butt of being able to do anything" articles? < 1236537427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: it is worth pointing out that it will never get stuck if you play with the optimal strategy < 1236537434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I was going under them < 1236537443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, so? < 1236537451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something you said to oklopol < 1236537455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :made me think you were saying < 1236537458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that there were non-physical rules < 1236537461 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236537469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just explaining what I thought < 1236537470 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I try to keep my levels as physical-rules-based as possible < 1236537474 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from the AI, of course < 1236537477 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is very scripted < 1236537490 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not feeling like a puzzle tonight < 1236537497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to escape from the switcher thing and go and kill the white ball < 1236537499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I didn't succeed < 1236537511 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it took me ages fixing bugs in that thing! < 1236537512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, I tried to run away before it locked me in < 1236537530 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah. < 1236537537 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's impossible due to the way doors work in Enigma < 1236537541 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't enter them once they start closing < 1236537551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but the white ball starts before they close < 1236537565 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and as the trigger's on a different square, by definition you're outside them when you hit the trigger < 1236537596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There is no risk of Wolfram Alpha becoming too smart, or taking over the world. It's good at answering factual questions; it's a computing machine, a tool -- not a mind." < 1236537598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Friendly AI fail. < 1236537689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree that there's no chance of it taking over the world < 1236537706 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there's a marginal chance it'll lead to Wolfram being booted from the internet, but for unrelated reasons < 1236537706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the statement is stupid, though < 1236537713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: huh? < 1236537731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll see later on, if they still have the feature I'm thinking of < 1236537745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it download gigabytes of data every minute? < 1236537788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, what I quoted was really stupid because a sufficiently advanced "computing machine" that correlates tons of its data (memories) and communicates a response, based on outside input (search query)... < 1236537789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is a mind < 1236537796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for very large values of sufficiently advanced) < 1236537816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I don't think you'll have to worry about sufficiently advanced < 1236537822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, nor I < 1236537828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that makes the statement any more valid < 1236537971 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, I've been trying to re-establish a wireless connection all this time < 1236537987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only came on mibbit because it was taking so long and I wanted to continue conversing... < 1236538101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mysql --i-am-a-dummy < 1236538104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dev.mysql.com/doc/refman/4.1/en/mysql-tips.html#safe-updates < 1236538117 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that an actual command line switch? < 1236538125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1236538138 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, why does mibbit not show a cursor in the box you're meant to type in? < 1236538140 0 :akiross!n=akiross@host-78-12-250-210.cust-adsl.tiscali.it JOIN :#esoteric < 1236538141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does sometimes < 1236538144 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but isn't atm < 1236538145 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1236538145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wfm < 1236538147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although < 1236538150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've had that problem < 1236538151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi akiross < 1236538159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes it hard to change something that isn't at the end of the sentence < 1236538161 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hi akiross < 1236538174 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ehird, ais523 < 1236538185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1236538194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what brings you here? < 1236538199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, hi ehird, just to keep this chain going < 1236538207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi akiross < 1236538209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1236538213 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi akiross < 1236538213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :akiross is new, he's been here before < 1236538222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he said he's working on a language that's like assembly for message-passing OOP < 1236538234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds sufficiently eso < 1236538237 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe even tarpitty < 1236538241 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi asiekierka < 1236538315 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) infact i'm here most to listen and see if it can interest, i'm not really in the "divulgation-phase" :D < 1236538329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :divulgation < 1236538330 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds like me sometimes < 1236538331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a word there < 1236538343 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can mention Underlambda and get lots of people shouting at me to release the spec < 1236538350 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or Feather and get people shouting at me to make some progress < 1236538367 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, divulgate is actually a word < 1236538388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Word of the day: Divulgation. Logs are good for your health: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236538431 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Word of the day: Divulgation. Apples AND Logs are good for your health: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236538436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Word of the day: Divulgation. Logs are good for your health: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236538441 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1236538445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: I always win the topic battles. Don't bother. :P < 1236538450 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But apples ARE good for your health < 1236538458 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Word of the day: Divulgation. Logs are too good for your health: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236538467 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"mibbit.com: getting some apple juice" < 1236538474 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahah i liked the apples one :D < 1236538474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Word of the day: Divulgation. Logs are good for your health: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236538479 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said apples ARE good for your health < 1236538487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Word of the day: Divulgation. Rocks are good for your health: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236538501 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Word of the day: Apples. Logs are good for your health: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236538508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are good for your health: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236538534 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Topics are good for your health. Logs aren't, but see them here: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236538544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are good for your topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236538561 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Topics are good for your apples auce: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236538568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your topic: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236538595 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Topics divulgate apples: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236538605 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Apples are apples for your... bananas! OH NO THE BANANA GAG! | http://tunes.org/~apples/apples/apples < 1236538612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236538617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, now it's deep. < 1236538625 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah :D < 1236538644 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Applepedia: Over 9.000.000.000 (divulgated) words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236538651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236538675 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Apples for your divulgations: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236538700 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236538700 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1236538701 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did I win < 1236538702 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what < 1236538709 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you did < 1236538711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236538714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1236538721 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird is back for the same old joke < 1236538731 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Apples for ehird's divulgations: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236538751 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WIN < 1236538763 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Akiross for ehird's asiekierkas: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236538764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236538773 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations < 1236538790 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :are < 1236538793 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :apples < 1236538796 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :for your < 1236538800 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :SPARTA! < 1236538815 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1236538829 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236538836 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric : < 1236538839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236538845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: Your topic rights are revoked. < 1236538850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You broke freenode policy < 1236538852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by removing the log URL. < 1236538853 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :#esoteric | No they are not, Mr. Anderson < 1236538857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: Your topic rights are revoked. < 1236538858 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236538859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1236538860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236538861 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :#esoteric | No they are not, Mr. Anderson | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236538863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236538875 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Let's listen to some tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236538877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236538881 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :You are both suspended. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236538884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236538896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1236538897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make it stop < 1236538899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X_X < 1236538902 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :THE NEXT PERSON THAT CHANGES THIS TOPIC SUCKS < 1236538903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236538904 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1236538907 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1236538926 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :THE NEXT PERSON THAT CHANGES THIS TOPIC A SPLODES < 1236538930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236538945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is ais? < 1236538970 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :http:// tunes [dot] org / [somechar] net [backslash] lo [gee] s / [e]sote [rick without a k] < 1236538972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would tell you he quit to get applejuice < 1236538977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you're ignoring me, so tough shit < 1236538978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236538984 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I would tell you he quit to get applejuice < 1236538986 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : but you're ignoring me, so tough shit < 1236538987 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236539005 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :The next person changing this topic must do it in Underload. < 1236539008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236539010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, if he isn't ignoring any moire < 1236539010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more* < 1236539013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION unignores < 1236539028 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Your topic rights are revoked. < 1236539033 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You broke the topic's sacred policy. < 1236539046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you remember how I said I always won topic wars? < 1236539048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Give up. < 1236539060 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :NEVER GONNA GIVE YOU UP, NEVER GONNA LET YOU DOWN < 1236539064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236539085 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :NEVER GONNA SAY GOODBYE < 1236539089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236539096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My patience is being tried. < 1236539127 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :You know the rules, and so do I < 1236539151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236539268 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tinyurl.com/esoteric-logs < 1236539310 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there somewhere a bloated snusp interpreter? i can find only a perl-one for modular snusp < 1236539318 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl one < 1236539351 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did anyone actually see that link < 1236539357 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see that I won < 1236539484 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1236539485 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1236539522 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236539540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: :D < 1236539561 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dislike an additional click < 1236539586 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tinyurl.com/esoteric-logs < 1236539589 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, looks like it's a rick roll too < 1236539592 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236539612 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tinyurl.com/esoteric-logs < 1236539621 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or I guess it is, I don't remember all the rick roll youtube IDs < 1236539623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: asiekierka still thinks rick astley and GlaDoS are funny because he's an irritating kid stuck in 2006. < 1236539626 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like one though < 1236539629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236539630 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know he's not < 1236539675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka, please keep the proper log link in topic. I agree with ehird there < 1236539683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1236539689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer the last at top sorting < 1236539690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, :) < 1236539703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc it was your idea to begin with < 1236539704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asking asiekierka to do something is like asking a brick wall to soften up a bit < 1236539709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, ah yes < 1236539711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll put that in < 1236539718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1236539721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D < 1236539906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: something really funny: http://throbs.net/fun/swf.asp?rgb.swf < 1236539993 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, that sound loop is short < 1236540001 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why couldn't they include the whole tune < 1236540029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1236540045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Maybe it's deliberately repetitive, for people with, um, audial epilepsy? < 1236540100 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1236540118 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems you won, huh? < 1236540194 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's true. You won this battle. < 1236540209 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tinyurl.com/esologs < 1236540218 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D < 1236540226 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you didn't even check that link < 1236540228 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1236540231 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care < 1236540235 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tinyurl.com/esologs < 1236540248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D < 1236540248 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a tinyurl so it's an extra click < 1236540255 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Regardless of whether it links to the right place < 1236540258 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what extra click < 1236540266 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no extra click < 1236540267 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have the 'preview' function of tinyurl enabled < 1236540273 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To avoid crap like your rick roll < 1236540273 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1236540275 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's your fault < 1236540281 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it is < 1236540290 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so check it in your preview < 1236540291 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But given that we have the option of just producing a direct link... why the hell would we not do so < 1236540302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://asienet.site40.net/ < 1236540308 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite < 1236540310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Give me a free PS3, now! What do you mean no?" < 1236540312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--Asiekierka. < 1236540315 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1236540318 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a joke page < 1236540324 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :made in November < 1236540331 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you missed "logs.html" < 1236540407 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://asienet.site40.net/logs.html < 1236540413 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no extra clicks < 1236540415 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g`hah < 1236540417 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D < 1236540428 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you at least check it < 1236540432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god asiekierka is irritating. < 1236540511 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@e-244.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1236540543 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://asienet.site40.net/logs.html < 1236540548 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D < 1236540613 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1236540656 0 :asiekierk!i=africalo@078088180066.elb.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1236540658 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hai < 1236540668 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your wars: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D < 1236540669 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://asienet.site40.net/logs.html < 1236540673 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1236540674 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1236540675 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D < 1236540678 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+t < 1236540690 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe we'll do something like that for a moment. < 1236540698 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheers < 1236540716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Can't you just eliminate the problem? :P < 1236540759 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I don't like taking responsibility for stuff like that. :p < 1236540859 0 :asiekierk!i=africalo@078088180066.elb.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1236540878 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236540880 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....... < 1236540884 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;( < 1236540900 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This was fun < 1236540906 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you killed the coolest thing on this channel < 1236540927 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Are you still alive? < 1236540927 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: woohoo! srfi-49 has been finalized! < 1236540937 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah, we're still good. < 1236540939 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What an enthusiastic response. < 1236540954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-49/srfi-49.html < 1236540957 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie...!!! < 1236540971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierk: shut up < 1236540976 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you shut up < 1236540978 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :twice < 1236540994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: are you sure you can't eliminate the problem... < 1236541000 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it was that i-expression thing. I didn't remember from the number. < 1236541065 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1236541071 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now we can't edit the topic < 1236541086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Say, what Scheme do you use? I've found all of them woefully inadequate (invents their own solutions instead of using srfis) < 1236541100 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Hey, this is freenode, it's all "Look for the best in people." and stuff. < 1236541119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236541129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The best in asiekierka... hmm. He /parts sometimes. < 1236541130 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's a free node < 1236541143 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Mainly I've used MzScheme (or PLT, anyway) even though I don't really like it, and it certainly does that own-solutions thing. < 1236541148 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;( < 1236541162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLT is just so bloated < 1236541213 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: No really, the best < 1236541222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1236541233 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone is parting sometimes < 1236541234 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1236541240 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least some people < 1236541248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but mostly those people are good to have around < 1236541263 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm the worst ever person cuz you hate me for my spamminess < 1236541277 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what on earth is the point of that srfi < 1236541299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tombom: satisfy lamers who have a parenthesis allergy < 1236541359 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I personally can't even use more than seven Funge fingerprints in a single file, otherwise those (s make me sneeze uncontrollably. < 1236541370 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parentheses are pretty much the best thing about lispy languages, how silly < 1236541583 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% ls < 1236541585 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foot.c foot.h foot.o toe.c toe.o < 1236541588 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% rm * .o < 1236541589 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm: .o: No such file or directory < 1236541591 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% ls < 1236541593 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% < 1236541598 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean rm *.o < 1236541604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierk: no shit sherlock < 1236541606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX: d'oh. < 1236541608 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think he means he fucked up < 1236541610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you had backups right < 1236541617 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wasn't that in one of the shoot-yourself-in-the-foot lists? < 1236541619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, was it in version control? < 1236541622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* doesn't include .foo < 1236541626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so just do a checkout < 1236541641 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Seems likely, I was just thinking about what 'foot' and 'toe' could mean < 1236541662 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.fullduplex.org/humor/2006/10/how-to-shoot-yourself-in-the-foot-in-any-programming-language/ "Unix" was my first goggle-hit. < 1236541685 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lack of esoteric languages in that list. < 1236541700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Note: The IEEE Scheme standard permits only lambda expressions and constants as the value of internal defines." < 1236541702 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Any esoteric language] < 1236541703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the fuck. < 1236541707 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You notice you have no feet. < 1236541718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahhahaha < 1236541720 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about Befunge < 1236541738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about it < 1236541759 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you shoot yourself in the foot IN IT < 1236541778 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in befunge < 1236541778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1236541781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you missed the whole joke < 1236541783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you lose < 1236541784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1236541788 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i understand it < 1236541790 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i still ask the question < 1236541794 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it surely can't be any < 1236541800 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Befunge is far more advanced than a typical esolang < 1236541806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :la la la < 1236541909 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that IEEE restriction reminds about reading how it's awkward to compile internal defines in the presence of continuations, maybe it's intended to solve that < 1236541916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, it is < 1236541917 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*reminds me < 1236541920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how ugly < 1236542103 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SA forums have had a discussion about foot-shooting, where someone listed Befunge with "You pull the trigger and the bullet perforates your foot simultaneously from four different directions." and Brainfuck with "Construct, from individual molecules, gun, bullet and foot." Nothing too funny there. < 1236542128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION decides between Gauche, MIT Scheme, PLT Scheme, Scheme48 & Gambit < 1236542130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and maybe larceny < 1236542137 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server" < 1236542162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :opinions welcome < 1236542213 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe Unlambda: "Suddenly a bullet emerges from inside your foot" < 1236542221 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1236542224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gauche: "GC is now Boehm GC 7.1." < 1236542225 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: If you want to grow up a Riastradh, do Scheme48. < 1236542227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION writes off. < 1236542234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: God I hate Riastradh. :| < 1236542243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what was your meaning there? < 1236542252 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's a very Scheme48 person. < 1236542295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never figured out what s48's intention was. < 1236542315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, its manual link is a 404, sheesh. < 1236542322 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I found another BF description in the comments < 1236542322 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck: You create a Turing complete gun, but it takes < 1236542322 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more bytes of memory to store the gun than there are protons in the universe. The universe dies of old age before you finish writing the bullet. < 1236542346 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.Net: Microsoft shoots you in the foot. < 1236542370 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or Microsoft hands you a gun to shoot yourself in the foot, or Microsoft hands you a gun and swears blind it’s a toenail clipper < 1236542485 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.Net: Microsoft shoots you in the foot, then when you complain they sue you for violating their EULA. < 1236542586 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOBELA: Your feet are split into 5 individual dots. Then you find out you can't shoot them. < 1236542643 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Piet: You paint your foot, and then make a colorful border around it in order to shoot it. < 1236542682 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.128 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236542695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb me < 1236542696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: You look at your foot, and asiekierka changes the topic. < 1236542713 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, good one, even if mocking me < 1236542716 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it doesn't take me that long to get apple juice normally < 1236542717 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :congrats < 1236542730 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka part 2: You pull out a gun, and ehird changes the topic back. < 1236542731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just I went and shut down my laptop, and the public Windows computer I was using < 1236542737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then went to a pub that sold apple juice < 1236542743 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and met some of my RL friends there < 1236542746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: quick! Gauche/Larceny/MIT Scheme/PLT Scheme/Scheme48/Gambit < 1236542746 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, apple juice is good for you < 1236542747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pick one. < 1236542761 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: MIT Scheme's the only one of those I've heard of < 1236542769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What boring logic. < 1236542776 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I pick that one on the basis that it's the only one that has anything to tell it apart from the others from my point of view < 1236542818 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You do know the names of the others; you could, for example, sort then in sha-hashed order, and choose thusly. < 1236542833 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rick Astley: Never gonna pwn your foot, never gonna shoot them right... < 1236542896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That gives MIT. < 1236542907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, wait < 1236542908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLT < 1236542911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irb(main):008:0> %w(Gauche Larceny MIT PLT Scheme48 Gambit).map {|x| [Digest::SHA1.hexdigest(x),x] }.sort[0] < 1236542911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=> ["83618951efd5e2d2c5c9fb6c1477485364e59136", "PLT"] < 1236542940 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wii: You try to shoot yourself in your foot but you can't aim it properly and you end up shooting your TV. < 1236542970 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that's a pretty high number for the lowest SHA hash... < 1236542976 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how come they all hashed in the top hald? < 1236542979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*half? < 1236542980 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..................... < 1236542991 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately I don't think Python can do better < 1236542993 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fis@iris:~$ echo "Gauche/Larceny/MIT Scheme/PLT Scheme/Scheme48/Gambit" | tr '/' '\n' | awk '{system("echo `echo -n "$0" | sha1sum` "$0);}' | sort | head -n 1 < 1236542996 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :103c701a4dbfc88dbd699811a1bda6350f3c75f6 - MIT Scheme < 1236542999 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used the names with spaces. < 1236543016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's Scheme 48 < 1236543018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a space < 1236543020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically < 1236543022 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DS: You touch your feet and access the Gun menu. There you select "Shoot". Then you find out you shot your girlfriend's feet. < 1236543035 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was directly copy-pasted from your question, though. < 1236543048 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : File "", line 1 < 1236543049 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : |i| hashlib.sha1(i).hexdigest() < 1236543051 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ^ < 1236543052 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SyntaxError: invalid syntax < 1236543054 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1236543064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: it's ruby < 1236543065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236543072 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1236543074 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I wish python could do it < 1236543078 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :......maybe it can < 1236543127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://practical-scheme.net/gauche/features.html A lot of SRFIs there. < 1236543137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still wary about it using Boehm. < 1236543144 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a SRFI < 1236543167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MIT Scheme is probably out, it barely supports any srfis < 1236543171 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VERY LOUD NOISE < 1236543186 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierk: it's you, you're the very loud noise < 1236543197 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One more 1000hz noise < 1236543208 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION turns the volume down < 1236543231 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deadfish: You have the gun, and the bullets, but you find out you can't input your feet. < 1236543248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236543248 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236543250 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236543300 0 :ehird!n=ehird@208.78.103.223 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236543300 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@65.183.185.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236543300 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1236543358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb ehird < 1236543362 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, netsplit-wb < 1236543425 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION turns the volume down < 1236543426 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1236543508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a wicked netsplit < 1236543512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just me, GregorR and Leonidas < 1236543513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chillin' < 1236543536 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok that's annoying < 1236543539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The name ‘Scheme 48’ commemorates our having written the original version in forty-eight hours, on August 6th and 7th, 1986. " < 1236543545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1986? Wow. This is old. < 1236543554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236543577 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, if they worked every 48 hours since then < 1236543583 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine how good it would be now! < 1236543593 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's the missing python: < 1236543595 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>>> sorted([(hashlib.sha1(imp).hexdigest(), imp) for imp in "Gauche/Larceny/MIT Scheme/PLT Scheme/Scheme 48/Gambit".split("/")])[0] < 1236543598 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :('103c701a4dbfc88dbd699811a1bda6350f3c75f6', 'MIT Scheme') < 1236543759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, it's Scheme 48 vs Gauche vs Gambit now, I think. < 1236543779 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: didn't you reccommend Chicken to me a while back? < 1236543784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I even installed it, although I never used it < 1236543800 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chicken seemed to have a nice amount of eggs for it. < 1236543837 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wow, are people still watching asiekierka's desktop? < 1236543842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, unfortunately Chicken has several annoying points to it < 1236543845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no hygenic macros by default, no bignums by default < 1236543854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and mostly eggs instead of srfis < 1236543859 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you undefault that? < 1236543869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I think < 1236543877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'd prefer to just get an r5rs-compliant interp that used srfis < 1236543888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also fast, preferably < 1236544063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Bridges are expected to stand up, and on the “first try,” even! Planes are expected to stay aloft. And yet programmers seem to be content with forever competing in the engineering version of the Special Olympics, where different, “special” standards apply and products are not expected to actually do what they say on the box - at any rate, the idea of offering a legal warranty of proper function (or even of not causing utter disaster, in the mann < 1236544065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er customary in every other industry) for a software product is seen as preposterous." < 1236544067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— http://www.loper-os.org/?p=37 < 1236544133 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Oklopol is < 1236544141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1236544153 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1236544154 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I've never seen oklopol spelt with a capital letter before < 1236544160 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's something very wrong about that < 1236544162 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1236544164 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1236544167 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oklopol is. < 1236544170 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have seen "Ais523" on occasion, but there's something very wrong about that too < 1236544209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION writes /clear < 1236544213 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those initcaps things are spooking me < 1236544245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irb(main):005:0> ["Gambit-C","Scheme 48","Gauche"].map {|x| [Digest::SHA1.hexdigest(x), x]}.sort[-1] < 1236544246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :=> ["d8be759feff060354d1fd9cf4bd1a0a764f31a1e", "Gauche"] < 1236544252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is the highest form of Scheme, clearly. < 1236544271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, Gambit has little SRFI support < 1236544286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :48 seems to have, uh, none. < 1236544296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, wait. < 1236544304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :48 has a lot. < 1236544306 0 :kerlo!n=ihope@normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1236544311 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're getting unsuitable results from your SHA hashes, just try alternative spellings. < 1236544354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, how do you print a regex match with awk < 1236544378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% ls scheme48-1.8/scheme/srfi/srfi-*.scm | awk '/srfi-(.+?)\.scm/ {print $1}' | xargs echo isn't working < 1236544382 0 :ais523_!n=ais523@147.188.254.128 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236544387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236544389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_: % ls scheme48-1.8/scheme/srfi/srfi-*.scm | awk '/srfi-(.+?)\.scm/ {print $1}' | xargs echo < 1236544395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know how to get that awk call working? < 1236544461 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't actually know awk < 1236544465 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I learnt sed and perl first < 1236544467 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523 < 1236544471 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that reduces the incentive to learn awk < 1236544472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awk is prettier < 1236544513 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl is beautiful < 1236544513 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all that meaning compressed into a few illegible characters < 1236544560 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also ls scheme48-1.8/scheme/srfi/srfi-*.scm | perl -ne 'print "$1\n" if /srfi-(.+?)\.scm/;' < 1236544779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S48: 40 srfis, 1 11 13 13 14 16 17 19 2 25 26 27 28 37 39 4 40 42 43 45 5 60 61 63 66 67 7 71 74 78 < 1236544779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gambit: 11 srfis, 0 4 6 8 9 18 21 22 23 27 39 < 1236544781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gauche: 40 srfis, 0 1 2 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 13 14 16 17 18 19 22 23 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 42 43 45 55 61 62 87 < 1236544788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is a srfi? < 1236544797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: scheme request for implementation < 1236544802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scheme extension library standards, pretty much < 1236544807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://srfi.schemers.org/ < 1236544832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If every implementation supported lots of SRFIs, beautiful portable Scheme code would be possible. < 1236544838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that if is way too hopeful. < 1236544847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most just invent their own shit to solve a problem. < 1236544852 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: If you *want* the awk, you can uglily do it with: | awk 'if (match($0, /srfi-(.+?)\.scm/, a)) print a[1]; }' < 1236544894 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems a bit silly that you can't get to the matched parentheses in the line-select-o-tron. < 1236544964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, has this corewar prorgam been made? I call it the "Imp-O-Matic" (hur hur) < 1236544965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically < 1236544968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tons of spls < 1236544970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then imps < 1236544976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that move so they don't clash with the other imps < 1236544983 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not, how would it win? < 1236544983 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or probably and it didn't win < 1236544996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it'd be just like an imp, except N times faster < 1236545013 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, people don't use imps as their only strategy because that would be stupid < 1236545020 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imp-spirals are more common, as they actually have a way to win < 1236545030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking basically for the nano hill < 1236545033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you only have 5 instructions < 1236545038 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :corewar isn't about surviving, it's about winning < 1236545051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't want to write a survivable program that forces the opponent to run your own survivable program < 1236545051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can climb the hill without winning I believe < 1236545053 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what an imp does < 1236545065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you lose every match < 1236545071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you draw most and lose a few at random < 1236545226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'm discounting Gambit < 1236545229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S48: 40 srfis, 1 11 13 13 14 16 17 19 2 25 26 27 28 37 39 4 40 42 43 45 5 60 61 63 66 67 7 71 74 78 < 1236545230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gauche: 40 srfis, 0 1 2 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 13 14 16 17 18 19 22 23 25 26 27 28 29 30 31 34 35 36 37 38 39 40 42 43 45 55 61 62 87 < 1236545237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pretty much equal, Gauche's srfis look a bit more useful though < 1236545323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1236545433 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for my Enigma level, I'm surprised that nobody looked up an online strategy guide or anything like that < 1236545435 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody will have written one for the level in particular < 1236545439 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the game it models is well-known < 1236545494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it? < 1236545496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know it < 1236545517 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm rather good at it < 1236545517 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll play you if you like < 1236545520 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12 11 10, your move < 1236545527 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that's a won position for you if you play well) < 1236545541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :errr < 1236545545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's it called, and what's that format < 1236545552 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the format's the number of blocks in each group < 1236545559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can reduce any of the numbers, but only one number, on your turn < 1236545562 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you make it 0 0 0 you lose < 1236545564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236545568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11 11 10 < 1236545573 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11 11 0 < 1236545578 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I win now, because the position's symmetrical < 1236545581 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((nim )S:^):^ < 1236545581 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim nim ...too much output! < 1236545592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can win just by copying what you do < 1236545592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one of the first losses you learn to avoid < 1236545606 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, oerjan knows what it's called < 1236545612 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (nim)()(a~a*~a*^:S( )S:a~a*~a*^*a~a*~a*^:^):^ < 1236545613 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nim nim nimnim nimnimnim nimnimnimnimnim nimnimnimnimnimnimnimnim nimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnim nimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnim nimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnim nimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnimnim ...too much output! < 1236545616 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's another game called nim which isn't as good, I prefer this nim < 1236545620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:52 ehird: 11 11 10 < 1236545620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:52 ais523: 11 11 0 < 1236545622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236545625 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (nom)()(a~a*~a*^:S( )S:a~a*~a*^*a~a*~a*^:^):^ < 1236545625 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nom nom nomnom nomnomnom nomnomnomnomnom nomnomnomnomnomnomnomnom nomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnom nomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnom nomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnom nomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnomnom ...too much output! < 1236545626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can reduce it any amount < 1236545629 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236545629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop it < 1236545631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: okay < 1236545635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can I retry my move? < 1236545655 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you mean misere nim, i take < 1236545663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 12 5 10 < 1236545677 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yours that is, the other being standard play) < 1236545698 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although they are equivalent for all except the endgame < 1236545705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1236545747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scheme of the process of writing in the Scheme, eval and techniques without the use of foul, C is easier than writing. I know that comfort is INPURIMENTETA Scheme, C, even if in the process of writing, the only remaining primitive minimum C must be written in the Scheme at any cost ... the temptation to get motivated. < 1236545752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love japanese translations < 1236546075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:58 ehird: Which is generally preferred as a general use scheme: Gauche or 48? < 1236546075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:59 Riastradh: Personally I prefer Scheme48 for admiral use, but I don't know about generals. < 1236546079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh so witty. < 1236546107 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.128 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236546119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[19:54] oerjan: are you any good at nim, by the way? < 1236546135 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i know the winning strategy < 1236546143 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so do I < 1236546145 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: 12 5 9 (i win) < 1236546151 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ja no branches < 1236546164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: what < 1236546170 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more fun if you don't let people know that the game has been solved when you teach them it, though < 1236546173 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : that's hot. < 1236546174 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and teach them bits of strategy < 1236546181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: ah, rite < 1236546181 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's true :D < 1236546193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I was planning on writing a bot that brute-forces it, then seeing what patterns it takes to write an intelligent solver < 1236546207 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "don't let the opponent get 1-2-3" and "don't let the opponent get x-x-0 for x>1" < 1236546216 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: interesting < 1236546239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I not only know the strategy, but have also proved it correct, I was bored once < 1236546254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :problem solving is merely optimization :P < 1236546312 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: do you think using only one table and a couple of shifts would be faster? < 1236546319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: not sure < 1236546324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :memory access is slow, isn't it? < 1236546330 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236546334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a few shifts might be faster than accessing memory < 1236546336 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well those tables are relatively small, the fit in cache < 1236546419 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :memory access is very fast if it fits in the L1 cache, slow otherwise < 1236546489 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've only got 3*26 + 512 bytes of tables < 1236546501 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: bruteforcing the nim strategy? < 1236546509 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's nim? < 1236546541 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: read backlog < 1236546556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's fiddling with comex's morse, ais523 < 1236546560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IF YOU KNOW WHAT I MEAN. < 1236546560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1236546562 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's what we were discussing for the last half-hour or so < 1236546565 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ah, ok < 1236546568 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Purely based on 26, I would've guessed the morse thing. < 1236546613 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236546650 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WINK WINK? < 1236546690 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :morse contains more than the alphabet iirc < 1236546694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: why don't you show ehird the solution to the Enigma puzzle I gave him, or at least the first move? < 1236546698 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12 11 10, your move < 1236546704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: not in comex's problem it doesn't < 1236546708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it just does the alphabetical ones < 1236546712 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 11 10, i think < 1236546716 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes < 1236546719 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 9 10 < 1236546737 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 9 1? I didn't play the Enigma Puzzle so i don't know < 1236546741 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 9 8 < 1236546748 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierk: 1 9 1 goes to 1 1 1, I win < 1236546753 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 9 8 is the correct move there < 1236546753 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236546756 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1236546756 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't know the rules < 1236546760 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Explain plz < 1236546762 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can play < 1236546777 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it does, i didn't implement it < 1236546780 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 6 8? < 1236546786 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you said whoever makes 0 0 0 loses, right? < 1236546791 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not 1 1 1 < 1236546794 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236546798 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 6 7 < 1236546806 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes < 1236546813 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but clearly you're going to win this one < 1236546818 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 5 7 < 1236546824 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so misere, it's a bit to remember at the end < 1236546829 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1236546834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanna play < 1236546836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you start < 1236546837 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 5 4 < 1236546839 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me too < 1236546843 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I don't know the rules < 1236546852 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I'll just resign this one, 1 0 4 < 1236546858 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can trivially win from there < 1236546863 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 0 0 < 1236546866 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you win < 1236546866 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would it be 1 0 1 < 1236546868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: < 1236546870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanna play :D < 1236546871 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ok < 1236546872 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me too < 1236546874 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i solved your puzzle, was rather trivial once i actually tried, problem is the ai still gets jammed. < 1236546876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what position should I start form? < 1236546879 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what's the rules < 1236546879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: whatever you wish < 1236546883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :allow me to win though < 1236546885 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierk: 1 0 1 is for the other nim variant, where making 0 0 0 _wins_ < 1236546887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierk: simple: < 1236546890 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, 3 5 7, your move < 1236546891 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236546893 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a won position for you < 1236546893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can remove any amount from one column < 1236546894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only one < 1236546895 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you discussing it < 1236546899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want to make the other person get to 0 < 1236546904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 1 5 7 < 1236546905 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any column < 1236546909 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I'm not giving the exact puzzle there, so as to not spoil it < 1236546910 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: 1 5 4 < 1236546920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 1 5 3 < 1236546926 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierk: on your turn, you can reduce any of the numbers by any amount, but have to reduce exactly one number < 1236546929 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: 1 2 3 < 1236546935 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you make the position 0 0 0, you lose < 1236546936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 1 2 2 < 1236546940 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 2 2 < 1236546944 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay < 1236546949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha I win yaaay < 1236546956 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no you don't < 1236546959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's your next move? < 1236546961 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: could you fix the bug, i can't find a way not to get the ai jammed :P < 1236546965 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And how do you win < 1236546965 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i'll try a few times < 1236546969 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236546973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: the bug only appears if the AI tries to move in the lefthand column < 1236546974 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i get it < 1236546976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1236546978 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you play the optimal strategy, it never does < 1236546982 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lemme try, but I probably will suck at it < 1236546986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 0 2 1 < 1236546988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I lose. < 1236546993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, 0 0 1, and you lose < 1236546999 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, 0 0 1? < 1236547001 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it's only 0 0 0 < 1236547003 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierk: I played 0 0 1 < 1236547008 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus forcing ehird to play 0 0 0 and losing < 1236547009 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right < 1236547011 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1236547012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 0 0 < 1236547017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierk: 3 5 7, your move < 1236547022 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what does "optimal" mean? < 1236547026 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 3 7? < 1236547029 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: the only strategy that wins < 1236547031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierk: 3 3 0 < 1236547031 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm using a winning strategy < 1236547039 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it gets jammed. < 1236547041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is only one winning strategy, the way it's set up < 1236547050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/msg me the moves you're using so I can check < 1236547053 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see. then there's probably an error somewhere in my derivation < 1236547056 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but we'll see < 1236547056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it getting jammed in the lefthand column? < 1236547062 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1236547067 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'll just try a few times < 1236547069 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should never be moving there < 1236547077 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except possibly on the very last turn < 1236547093 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierk: where are you moving from there? < 1236547095 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thinking < 1236547098 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, 3 3 0 is a winning position for me < 1236547100 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I can just copy what you do < 1236547126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:18 Riastradh: If you were more specific with your inquiry, more specific persons might reply more specifically. < 1236547135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god, that guy doesn't have a stick up his ass, he has an ass up his ass. < 1236547155 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 3 0 < 1236547187 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierk: 2 2 0 < 1236547188 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523? < 1236547189 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236547206 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 1 0 then < 1236547211 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 1 0 < 1236547215 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I lose < 1236547217 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1236547226 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just found out about this game < 1236547227 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so uh < 1236547227 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :want another game? < 1236547238 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1236547239 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 2 3 < 1236547244 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your turn < 1236547245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 2 3, I win < 1236547252 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...what? < 1236547255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1 2 3's a well-known winning position) < 1236547259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't win yet, but it's inevitable < 1236547265 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where are you taking all these positions from!? < 1236547271 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway 1 2 1 < 1236547274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 1 1 < 1236547274 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i don't know the moves, they depend on what the ai does. < 1236547275 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 3 0 -> (2 3 0 -> 2 2 0 -> (1 2 0 -> 1 0 0 -> 0 0 0 | 0 2 0 -> 0 1 0 -> 0 0 0) | 1 3 0 -> 1 0 0 -> 0 0 0 | 0 3 0 -> 0 1 0 -> 0 0 0) < 1236547279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: the ai's deterministic < 1236547284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cuil.com/search?q=Wolfram+Alpha < 1236547287 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 1 1, then you do 0 0 1 and I lose < 1236547287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :home yoghurt making < 1236547290 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not using any kind of cool strategy, i just manually brute-forced the whole game. < 1236547291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ebony foot worship < 1236547311 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: you manually the _whole_ game? < 1236547312 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, I must make a version of that game for the DS < 1236547315 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: determinism help very much, i'm so going to deduce how it works. < 1236547320 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: just enough to win that one < 1236547328 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236547329 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1236547336 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well still, same answer < 1236547340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Used Armoire's my favourite there < 1236547360 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you know any fun games like that? < 1236547368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierk: Nim. < 1236547374 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's Nim < 1236547377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierk: that game < 1236547379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that we were just playing < 1236547385 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236547385 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kayles is related but a bit harder to represent over IRC < 1236547405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/830u9/wolfram_alpha_is_coming_and_it_could_be_as/c083vsm < 1236547407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this real? < 1236547467 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay i agree with AnMaster on the game. < 1236547475 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well about < 1236547487 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well level < 1236547492 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuuuuuck < 1236547494 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lost the game :( < 1236547517 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw is that a trivial game? i didn't read the logs < 1236547545 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been solved, it's trivial for a computer (thus I wrote the perfect AI), but not quite that trivial for a human to do the calculations in their head < 1236547554 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my solution is not in any way mathematically beautiful, although subsolutions are, didn't see a reason to find a complete theory because i already found out enough to beat it < 1236547592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that comment is a joke, I think < 1236547605 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'm not going to show it to you before i know it works. < 1236547621 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although those answers are the sort of thing it would come up with, I think the commentor went out of the way to come up with silly answers < 1236547672 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i have a few rules for what states are win and what are lose, if i have errors, they must be pretty consistent, because all the states before it jams are wins. < 1236547678 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: In what did you write the perfect AI < 1236547680 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: from briefly browsing the beginning of what the linked article said, the actual alpha won't be released until may < 1236547687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.theonion.com/content/news/al_gore_places_infant_son_in?utm_source=onion_rss_daily < 1236547687 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierk: a random subset of Lua < 1236547693 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh < 1236547698 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hoped an Esolang < 1236547707 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: maybe i could play you on priv? < 1236547710 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you be the bot < 1236547711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: sure < 1236547714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll use its strategy < 1236547722 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then me! Then me! < 1236547723 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you know what onion is, i hope, or are you going to ask if that's true as well? :D < 1236547726 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the onion < 1236547728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1236547808 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf is this wolfram alpha < 1236547833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#esoteric have been wondering what it is for a while < 1236547838 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read pieces of the press release but it all just sounds like fluff < 1236547843 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with no actual explanation of what it does < 1236547852 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blah blah blah revolutionary knowledge engine blah blah blah < 1236547859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 has tried it out, apparently it's good < 1236547866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's bullshit, like all of Wolfram's stuff < 1236547868 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the annoying thing is that I know what it is but aren't allowed to tell anyone < 1236547879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GRAAAAH JUST TELL US ;__; < 1236547907 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How would anyone know if you told us? You know, apart from the publicly accessible channel logs. < 1236547913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/msg :P < 1236547915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb -> < 1236547973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I don't care, I have morals < 1236547996 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how quaint :D < 1236548014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed, I feel rather out of place < 1236548059 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well by may it'll stand or fall on its own merit, regardless < 1236548075 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think mere hype can save such a project < 1236548099 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no matter how good wolfram is at it < 1236548100 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want a piece of information, exactly once in the last two years have I wished that it existed publically < 1236548138 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that was in the context of "if it existed publically, those annoying #esoteric people would stop bugging me about it". < 1236548152 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll keep the context secret for now, because it's boring < 1236548207 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To tell you the truth, I haven't noticed any talk about it here, so it can't be a very regular topic. < 1236548264 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only a couple days since it showed up on reddit, isn't it? < 1236548288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I've already seen the wolfram hype machine in action about the 2,3 thing < 1236548296 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and was mentioned here, and that's the first i saw < 1236548320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Could This be a Cuil killer? < 1236548321 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a bit corny to have on wolframalpha.com an image of a text input control. < 1236548337 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i still haven't read the press release btw, in fact i think that's partially because of wolfram's hype notoriety < 1236548363 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the press release is unfortunately mostly meaningless < 1236548382 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :def a(): < 1236548383 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : for i in xrange(5): < 1236548385 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : q = Slist([2, 3, 4, 5, 5]).filt(y == 5) < 1236548386 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : print q < 1236548387 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#dis.dis(a) < 1236548399 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: stop pasting Python over IRC, my client doesn't receive the indentation < 1236548403 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither does mine < 1236548404 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can't tell what the program does < 1236548409 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is < 1236548420 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slist(somelist).filt(y == 5) < 1236548422 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :filters on |y| y == 5 < 1236548429 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without the need to type lambda < 1236548429 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my client receives the indentation but displays it as inverted I's < 1236548431 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither does mine but i don't know python < 1236548444 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know < 1236548446 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know, that's horrible < 1236548450 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess i have the logical means, at least < 1236548456 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that idiot who designed morse code really should have used prefix-free codes < 1236548472 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does this by using ctypes to modify the code of the calling function < 1236548472 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: that would have made it a lot slower < 1236548473 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no not really < 1236548477 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first python macro, I guess :p < 1236548482 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how? < 1236548485 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fairly perfect as is < 1236548494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: by reducing its compression ratio < 1236548512 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you'd get rid of the waiting between symbols < 1236548522 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is not very long for a skilled operator < 1236548525 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the same length as a dash < 1236548528 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, and also it's easier to learn to listen to it this way < 1236548537 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas the waiting between dots/dashes is the same length as a dot < 1236548550 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and prefix free codes wouldn't make it longer than an extra dash < 1236548551 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's a minor point ofc < 1236548555 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Morse Code is prefix-free, really < 1236548560 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just have to realise it has four symbols not just two < 1236548565 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1236548573 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...not < 1236548575 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it communicates data both in the length the signal is on, and the length the signal is off < 1236548611 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is bad < 1236548632 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: Uh... if you just want to not type lambda, why not just use [y for y in [2, 3, 4, 5, 5] if y == 5]? < 1236548677 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. . . . . . ... . . . ... . . ... ... ... . ... ... ... ... ... . ... . . ... . . ... . . < 1236548691 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bywe < 1236548693 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1236548714 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: too verbose < 1236548718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, speaking as an engineer, the main problem with morse code is that it isn't balanced < 1236548729 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it spends more time during dots and dashes then it does between them < 1236548743 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means you need to use a sort of line to transmit it that can handle a net direct current < 1236548759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(although by making e a single dot that problem's reduced to some extent) < 1236548784 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm? < 1236548787 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean single dot < 1236548791 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236548795 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't e "." in morse code? < 1236548798 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or have I messed that up? < 1236548799 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the fact that it *is* a single dot < 1236548801 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1236548801 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's . < 1236548810 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :frequent -> short < 1236548816 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most frequent -> shortest < 1236548826 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but more to the point, most frequent -> shorter than the gap between letters < 1236548836 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you're letting the communication medium be a bit more negative to count out all the positives < 1236548865 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that's what you were talking about < 1236548868 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1236548930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the subtleties in communication codes are rarely apparent to people who haven't looked into them < 1236548961 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, IIRC telegraphs used amplitude modulation of a carrier wave < 1236548981 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that always cancels out negative/positive, so it wasn't a problem for them < 1236549005 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION keeps forgetting that he wants to get a cw transceiver  < 1236549021 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does cw stand for in that? < 1236549031 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :constant wave < 1236549056 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :morse code is transmitted by turning a constant tone on and off < 1236549064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes < 1236549078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my course they call it ASK < 1236549131 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ASK is more general iirc < 1236549151 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ASK refers to sending digital data by turning a constant wave on and off < 1236549162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's only more general in the sense that it doesn't have to refer to radio < 1236549168 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do ASK with a piece of string in theory < 1236549174 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should, it could be a fun experiment < 1236549200 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also in the sense that it might have more than two amplitude levels, according to wiggibedia. What you say is "called on-off keying". < 1236549235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ok, although using more than two amplitude levels for ASK is relatively stupid because you may as well do QPSK if you're doing that < 1236549244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or one of the multiple-level versions of QPSK < 1236549329 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ASK or not ASK, that's the question < 1236549562 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IR remote protocols are funny. At least those remotes I have here all encode the data by sending a train of fixed-length on/off pulses (of a 38 kHz carrier wave), with 0/1 bit encoded by the length of the pause between pulses; and then they send both the actual command and its complement, so that the total transmission length is constant. < 1236549596 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it reminds me of the secure smartcards they're making nowadays < 1236549608 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are careful to never think a 0 without thinking a complementary 1 at the same time < 1236549618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems that people were hacking into them by calculating their thoughts by measuring the power drain < 1236549628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is insane, I like it < 1236549640 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: why? < 1236549647 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and the crypto-people call that a "power attack", which is also funny. < 1236549705 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :side-channel attacks are terrifying < 1236549717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed with that < 1236549731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quantum encryption is 100% mathematically secure, but something like 8 side-channel attacks have been found against it < 1236549742 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you think aes is secure? not if you have hostile code running in an untrusted proccess on your machine < 1236549765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: hostile code running in a trusted process would be worse < 1236549780 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the thing, it doesn't need to be a trusted process < 1236549789 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it wouldn't be any worse < 1236549802 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because an untrusted proccess can recover your key < 1236549822 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Quit" < 1236549898 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that one thing about getting CRT screen pictures by just measuring the general lightness level (through a curtain, or reflected off a wall) over time and then deconvolving with the impulse response of the CRT phosphors; that was also the awesome. < 1236549958 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :van eck < 1236549974 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ok, that one is utterly awesome < 1236549992 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do it with lcds, usb keyboards too < 1236549993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm pretty surprised that deconvolution's that accurate < 1236550041 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cl.cam.ac.uk/~mgk25/ieee02-optical.pdf has some pictures. < 1236550076 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that one only works for CRT tubes, since it's about measuring diffusely-reflected light, not picking up the EM radiation like the Van Eck stuff. Although that's frightening too. < 1236550128 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a reason why TEMPEST is so strict < 1236550679 0 :SimonRC_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :SimonRC < 1236550751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:01 bsmntbombdood: side-channel attacks are terrifying < 1236550759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like "give us the key or I'll fuck you with this metal pole" < 1236550762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that tends to work. < 1236550778 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...except you don't even have to go there < 1236550804 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that more behind-channel? < 1236550808 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily, that sort of side-channel attack, here in the UK, would probably receive media coverage < 1236550822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, criminals are universally caught. < 1236550837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including the authorities using 'advanced interrogation techniques'. they're all in jail. < 1236550862 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I wouldn't say universally < 1236550867 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it certainly makes you a lot easier to catch < 1236550869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was sarcasm. < 1236550878 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have to physically abduct the person you're trying to hack into the files of < 1236550885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, hiding from the authorities is likely to be stupid < 1236550896 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only thing you can do is elect people who'll try to respect your privacy, and that's basically impossible < 1236550903 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just have to park a van outside for a couple hours < 1236550930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone should make an anarchy party, whose goal is to 1) get elected, and then 2) disestablish all government < 1236550931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for: < 1236550939 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't vote for them < 1236550946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd fear for my life if some people like that got elected < 1236550956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Anarchy is fine if everyone is perfect < 1236550965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, well... they're not. < 1236550967 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: there are a lot of imperfect people around, unfortunately < 1236551045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, gauche vs scheme48 is a hard question < 1236551066 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you use the libraries from one with the other? < 1236551074 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1236551078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye akiross < 1236551084 0 :akiross!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1236551091 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was unexpected < 1236551103 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone's been idling all this time, and jumps in just to say bye, and isn't Mony? < 1236551133 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does that sometimes < 1236551159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:24 ais523: can you use the libraries from one with the other? < 1236551162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're entirely unrelated interps. < 1236551169 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, it depends on what the libs are written in < 1236551174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, what? < 1236551175 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they're written in scheme, I wouldn't be surprised < 1236551180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not even talking about the libraries < 1236551181 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they're both scheme interps < 1236551185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's utterly irrelevant to my current decision < 1236551189 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1236551211 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1236551216 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was you posting about the srfis higher up, presumably you've gone on to compare some other things now < 1236551226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the diameter of the steering wheel, or whatever < 1236551234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that was my first stage of comparison < 1236551241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're both roughly on a level playing field as far as srfis go < 1236551242 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats ais523 -----### < 1236551249 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch! why? < 1236551249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently gauche's interp is "hard to maintain" < 1236551255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it has nice stuff for scripting < 1236551261 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION catches oerjan in a butterfly net -----\XXXX/ < 1236551264 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i felt we were on an "unexpected" flow here < 1236551276 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear < 1236551288 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was certainly unexpected < 1236551302 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was wondering what would beat a swatter at stone-paper-scissors < 1236551312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and utterly failed to come to a decision, so I used a butterfly net instead < 1236551319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it a reference to? < 1236551324 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Top Gear < 1236551333 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was an argument that James May was losing < 1236551334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I like top gear but I don't recall any such quote < 1236551343 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he went around comparing utterly irrelevant features of the cars < 1236551351 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to find one that he won at < 1236551357 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.capturedlightning.com/frames/interesting.html < 1236551359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one advantage of scheme48: It's not written by a japanese person with questionable English (well, ok, it's mostly fine but bits of awkwardness every now and then) < 1236551364 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://link.brightcove.com/services/player/bcpid1417302205?bctid=1419758473 < 1236551572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: awesome < 1236551611 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same people also shrink coins. Why you'd want to do this I don't know < 1236551615 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.capturedlightning.com/frames/OldQtr_R1.jpg < 1236552132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, Gauche fails some R5RS pitfall tests. < 1236552133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1236552214 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pitfall tests? < 1236552277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sisc-scheme.org/r5rs_pitfall.php < 1236552285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Horrible, evil Scheme code that is technically R5RS compliant. < 1236552320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a nice testsuite < 1236552376 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((lambda lambda lambda) 'x) < 1236552381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the most evil thing there, but I love that line < 1236552406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should have been: < 1236552410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((lambda lambda lambda) '(mushroom mushroom)) < 1236552429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, that's the second badgerbadgerbadger reference that's been made today < 1236552438 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it with those references, the llama song was so much better < 1236552445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the other was in RL) < 1236552456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"in RL"? < 1236552461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236552502 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, should I have said "afk" instead? < 1236552865 0 :k!n=kar8nga@j-166.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1236552888 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1236552891 0 :k!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kar8nga < 1236552907 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236553219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gosh> (+ 1 +inf.0) < 1236553220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1236553221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.lol wat < 1236553249 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"gosh"? < 1236553277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The gauche shell < 1236553291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are repls called shells nowadays? < 1236553299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a real shell for doing shell stuff < 1236553303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let my repl do repling < 1236553305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first repls were shells. < 1236553313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a shell IS an R.E.P.L. < 1236553320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, a shell's just a REL < 1236553324 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no printing involved < 1236553329 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you invoke a command that does the printing < 1236553330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My shell informs me of the results of commands. < 1236553337 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, really? < 1236553342 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: depends on what you mean by "P" < 1236553342 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my commands inform me of the results of commands < 1236553354 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the shell just runs them, and connects them together in pretty unixy ways < 1236553366 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shells typically bing stdout to the same place shell messages go < 1236553384 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are printing the result of the stream operations you specify < 1236553401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you're just nitpicking < 1236553403 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'tis a bit of a stretch < 1236553457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Options: -h Maximum heap size in words (default 3000000). < 1236553457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : A heap size of 0 means the heap can grow < 1236553458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : unboundedly. This is dangerous because it can < 1236553460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : cause your system to run out of memory. < 1236553463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol wat < 1236553472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT MY COMPUTER MIGHT RUN OUT OF MEMORY OH LORD < 1236553531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a resource limit < 1236553538 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and setting resource limits is generally considered wise < 1236553553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, but it's ridiculous, 1. my computer can do that for me 2. being subturing out of the box is just silly < 1236553586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's subturing anyway, your computer has finite memory < 1236553594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not the implementation's fault < 1236553595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ^D < 1236553596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exit Scheme 48 (y/n)? y < 1236553598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, you know what? < 1236553601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have to ask me that. < 1236553609 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, asking on ^D? does that even make sense? < 1236553616 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't have a y after end-of-file to say yes < 1236553624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236553626 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a subturfuge < 1236553628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it has to open a whole new file just to prompt you < 1236553630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes I wonder if you actually use a computer < 1236553638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is trivial to trap ^D < 1236553645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this repl has no line editing, and it does that < 1236553648 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: only in an interactive environment < 1236553654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is an interactive environment < 1236553660 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not necessarily < 1236553667 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I know it can treat interactive and noninteractive differently < 1236553670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it wasn't, it wouldn't prompt. < 1236553678 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but IMO, things are neater if it treats everything the same < 1236553688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neater as in less user friendly, yes. < 1236553694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like no prompts < 1236553697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or line editing < 1236553705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: neater as in more user friendly, I prefer things to act predictably < 1236553863 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Am I the only one here who fantasizes about Croquet being as popular and well supported as SL? < 1236553879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're certainly the only one here who uses words like "fantazised" for things like that < 1236553941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION allocates 100000000 cons cells. < 1236553944 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: croquet was around long before second life was, they're rather different though < 1236553948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\m/ < 1236553959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: er, croquet = 2007 < 1236553966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was the actual release < 1236553968 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, croquet was around in victorian times < 1236553974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :**groan** < 1236553986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not even meant to be a pun or misunderstanding < 1236553992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't just steal common words like that < 1236553992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Croquet_project < 1236554004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I agree -- unix stole eunuchs < 1236554008 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still annoyed at Microsoft for using "Windows" as the main meme-name of an OS < 1236554009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How horrid of them < 1236554017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, those are pretty clearly different words < 1236554023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same pronounciation. < 1236554116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really, I actually pronounce the I in UNIX as an I, although I'm aware that's not the "standard" pronunciation < 1236554127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exit Scheme 48 (y/n)? < 1236554127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll only ask another 100 times. < 1236554128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exit Scheme 48 (y/n)? Exit Scheme 48 (y/n)? Exit Scheme 48 (y/n)? Exit Scheme 48 (y/n)? < 1236554137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does not like rlwrap. < 1236554180 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, you seem to be making my points for me, just more effectively < 1236554201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "Scheme 48's REPL is buggy" != "your points are correct" < 1236554205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's buggy for entirely different reasons < 1236554221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Scheme 48 uses a copying garbage collector." < 1236554228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be why it is using 2GB of ram, when I only consed up 1. < 1236554244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of implementations use copying garbage collectors, they can be very fast < 1236554251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speed != memory < 1236554253 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OCaml does for some things, IIRC < 1236554257 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and agreed < 1236554264 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just an explanation of why double memory would be desirable < 1236554290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> ,collect < 1236554291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Before: 22039 out of 231330816 words available < 1236554292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After: 589056 out of 1937408 words available < 1236554296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, the issue is that it doesn't shrink the heap./ < 1236554303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I started with -h 0, which means "expand heap to fit program".) < 1236554314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it'll use 2GB until I kill it, even though there's not many objects floating around. < 1236554316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nearly everything doesn't shrink the heap < 1236554327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should < 1236554333 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even malloc()/free() doesn't normally with most implementations, you have to jump through hoops to get heap shrinkage to work < 1236554343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's not what I mean < 1236554353 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean then? < 1236554355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you malloc 2gb then free it, the memory counter in Activity Monitor goes down, and the memory is returned to the OS < 1236554360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in scheme 48, if you cons 2gb < 1236554362 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, really? < 1236554362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then discard it < 1236554364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and run the gc < 1236554365 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: there is a theory that gc'ed memory can be faster than manually allocated memory, but only if you use much more memory than you actually need < 1236554368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it still uses 2gb of memory < 1236554369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forever < 1236554370 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as memory isn't too fragmented, paging will let you ignore the vast tracts of currently-free space < 1236554371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can never shrink it < 1236554374 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most implementations of free don't return to the OS, but to that process's malloc < 1236554385 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/use/allocate/ < 1236554386 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, if you're still keeping something allocated near the end of memory < 1236554388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I support the theory, except without your annotation < 1236554402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not using a gc is always a bug... < 1236554424 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: or some form of compiler-checked allocation < 1236554426 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i am just pointing that it can be about trading memory for speed < 1236554431 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one which gc is only one sort < 1236554438 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Peace and Protection 4.22.2" < 1236554454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I've just had an insane idea, which wouldn't work for most programs but would be very eso on the ones it did < 1236554455 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... if a copying GC uses twice the space that is within objects, that rather suggests it is a non-generational copying GC. Ouch. < 1236554459 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :static analysis of memory allocation < 1236554468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just figure out all the mallocs at compile time < 1236554478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and replace them with offsets into a fixed data structure < 1236554479 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that is standard in Avionics < 1236554496 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :accoding to my dad, at least, and he should know < 1236554504 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds great, and it would actually be appropriate there < 1236554511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/411167 <- my tseting procedure < 1236554514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to try it in gauche < 1236554520 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's do it in something it's utterly unsuited for, like a compiler < 1236554532 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, it is usual for small/hard real-time embedded systems < 1236554545 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ITYM http://rafb.net/p/4g4iA738.html < 1236554545 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, COBOL uses static allocation < 1236554554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1236554558 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forth tends to for a lot of things too < 1236554571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, 1.35GB being used < 1236554582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :running gc < 1236554587 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... this reminds me of the thread on clc of someone who was translating C into C# < 1236554589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaand it's still using 1.35GB < 1236554594 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wanted to know what to translate free() into < 1236554598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1236554606 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there has been some research into "region inference", to make Ocaml programs' allocation more efficient < 1236554626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GC works fine in practice < 1236554639 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the solution's to assign C#'s version of null to whatever you were trying to free, so it can be garbage-collected < 1236554647 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: unless a 100us delay is deadly < 1236554649 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;-) < 1236554650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: < 1236554653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a version of c's {} that applies to allocations within would be a huge boon for that < 1236554656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. < 1236554661 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no individual usenet newsgroup's likely to give a good answer due to topicality problems < 1236554677 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: wow, microseconds? that's quite a lot < 1236554679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mem{ int *a = local_alloc(1gb); do stuff with a; } < 1236554685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the end of the block, *a is freed < 1236554686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when working with VHDL a lot you tend to think in nanoseconds < 1236554691 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :likewise with asm on modern processes < 1236554693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as any other local allocations on the local allocation stack at the time < 1236554697 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*processors < 1236554727 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: they're called auto variables. < 1236554730 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VHDL handles picoseconds too, but that's only really useful if you're trying to model individual transistors in the processor rather than just writing down how they behave < 1236554734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C doesn't have them, does it? < 1236554741 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: VLAs < 1236554743 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "stack allocated" in colloquial C++ < 1236554744 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're only in C99 < 1236554748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, that's stack allocated < 1236554752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck fitting 1gb on to the stack < 1236554758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm talking about scoped heap allocation < 1236554762 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in theory, they don't have to be stack allocated < 1236554765 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cobalt is alpha < 1236554767 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing in the C standard says they are < 1236554775 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I think Cobalt is basically what I want < 1236554776 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just most implementors do them like that because they're lazy < 1236554786 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, what makes you think the heap is bigger than the stack? < 1236554799 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c++'s destructors allow heap-allocated stuff to have a lifetime as if it lives on the stack < 1236554800 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION grew up on DOS, where in some memory models they're equal < 1236554823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you keep saying c++ < 1236554824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop i t < 1236554831 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: why? < 1236554833 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1236554840 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, C++ was designed to add lots of features missing from C < 1236554846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if a 100us delay is deadly, you shouldn't be using anything but asm and cx < 1236554847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*c < 1236554848 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of them were subsequently backported < 1236554857 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suddenly realises why ehird hates C99 so much < 1236554858 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: huh? why? < 1236554868 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: C++ is no slower than C if you don't make use of its slower features < 1236554872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: for a start, you shouldn't even use C++ < 1236554881 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that's quite a strong statement! < 1236554883 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I happen to like C++ < 1236554884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, ais523 too, if you don't use any fancy c++ features why are you using c++? < 1236554889 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I haven't used it for much recently < 1236554893 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: to use its faster features? < 1236554901 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: indeed, they are designed to be zero-overhead < 1236554923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find http://www.uni-koblenz.de/~vladimir/breviary/fake.txt to be a more reliable account of C++ than just about anything else < 1236554958 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: const char* string constants is a big incompatible improvement, for instance < 1236554971 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm taking a C++ class < 1236554985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I am fairly sure this is valid C89: {const char *foo = "butts";} < 1236554991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that's nice. < 1236555012 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, it is I think < 1236555016 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you have to do it explicitly < 1236555026 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C++ will warn you if you write {char *foo = "butts";} < 1236555034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure you can get gcc to warn you about that. < 1236555037 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you can < 1236555041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster does, IIRC < 1236555053 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, it gives too many warnings < 1236555066 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because libraries written in C normally expect char* strings < 1236555082 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can't pass a const char* string into a char*-expecting function without unsafe casts < 1236555095 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C++, because nothing can mess up constness like that, the libraries don't < 1236555161 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-Wwrite-strings: "When compiling C, give string constants the type 'const char[LENGTH]' -- These warnings will help you -- but only if you have been very careful about using 'const' in declarations and prototypes. Otherwise, it will just be a nuisance; this is why we did not make '-Wall' request these warnings." < 1236555171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the half-meg hello worlds just come from streaming overhead, you don't need heavyweight streams for something as simple as that < 1236555182 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in gcc-bf, I get annoyed at stdio overhead for something like a hello world < 1236555197 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the problem's not so much about code you write yourself, which you can change < 1236555207 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the code everyone else wrote that you have to link to < 1236555233 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, but that's what the manual says. They could've mentioned "char *"y library functions. < 1236555248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;;; -*-Emacs-Lisp-*- cmulisp.el < 1236555248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;;; Copyright Olin Shivers (1988). < 1236555249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;;; Please imagine a long, tedious, legalistic 5-page gnu-style copyright < 1236555252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;;; notice appearing here to the effect that you may use this code any < 1236555254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;;; way you like, as long as you don't charge money for it, remove this < 1236555256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;;; notice, or hold me liable for its results. < 1236555258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's one ballsy license. < 1236555290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, most standard libraries like the glibc headers have been fixed, now, but third-party libraries are a problem < 1236555295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the amazing thing is, it would probably work < 1236555308 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he didn't explicitly grant any licence priveliges at all, so someone who breaks it can be sued < 1236555326 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if someone uses it as described there, though, and he tries to sue them, he won't get a payout due to estoppel < 1236555337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1236555351 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"estoppel" sounds like someone's nick. < 1236555354 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably most companies wouldn't dare use code with a licence as vague as that, but AFAICT it works < 1236555365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's bundled with scheme48 < 1236555368 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Notice] -NickServ- estoppel is not registered. < 1236555377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :estoppel < 1236555379 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bitches. < 1236555398 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have been thinking of Aardappel. < 1236555402 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the sudden psygnisfive channeling? < 1236555405 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a nice nick. < 1236555415 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1236555418 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whos channeling me? :| < 1236555422 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Bitches. < 1236555427 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or eclipple.mp3. < 1236555430 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont say bitches < 1236555439 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES YOU DO < 1236555445 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or did, at any rate < 1236555461 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :estoppel: I've read that link, and it appears to be some sort of joke? < 1236555469 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no shit sherlock < 1236555476 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that was blindingly obvious < 1236555483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, but if you're channeling psygnisfive, I want to channel AnMaster < 1236555483 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how on earth can you miss the fact that that was a joke? < 1236555487 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :listen, bitch < 1236555488 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aaaaargh!! < 1236555491 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont say bitches < 1236555495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I didn't, although I'm disappointed you didn't spot the metajoke < 1236555496 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: o < 1236555500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: oko < 1236555501 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Bitches. I don't say bitches." < 1236555503 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okoko < 1236555505 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokoko < 1236555509 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokoko < 1236555512 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokoko < 1236555514 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHAHAHA < 1236555515 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokoko < 1236555517 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokoko < 1236555518 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1236555519 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this internet connection sucks; I'm going to bed < 1236555524 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokoko < 1236555524 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :koko is a gorilla < 1236555526 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokoko < 1236555529 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokoko < 1236555531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokoko < 1236555535 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokoko < 1236555535 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ookookook < 1236555537 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokokoko < 1236555539 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEY < 1236555540 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I BROKE IT UP < 1236555540 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokokokoko < 1236555542 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU HAVE TO STOP < 1236555542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko < 1236555546 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko < 1236555547 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOD DAMN YOU PEOPLE < 1236555548 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko < 1236555550 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokoko < 1236555550 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko < 1236555551 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUTTS < 1236555552 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko < 1236555552 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::||||||||||| < 1236555555 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko < 1236555557 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko < 1236555560 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko < 1236555561 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STOP < 1236555562 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko < 1236555562 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAVING < 1236555563 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUN < 1236555566 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko < 1236555567 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko < 1236555568 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kokokokokokokokokoko < 1236555569 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STOP IT < 1236555570 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko < 1236555572 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :estoppel, surely you have a bot we can loop to kill this shit < 1236555573 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokokoko < 1236555577 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh, messed up < 1236555578 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!! < 1236555580 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1236555580 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1236555582 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuckers < 1236555583 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry oerjan < 1236555594 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 thunder < 1236555603 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sgeo: ditto < 1236555603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: try again? < 1236555609 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was such a perfect channeling :´( < 1236555611 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1236555611 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oko < 1236555612 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okoko < 1236555612 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokoko < 1236555613 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokoko < 1236555614 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dangit < 1236555614 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokoko < 1236555615 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokoko < 1236555617 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokoko < 1236555618 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okokokokokokokoko < 1236555620 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dsf < 1236555620 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dsf < 1236555621 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sdf < 1236555624 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1236555626 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's oklopol < 1236555628 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :carry on < 1236555634 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an oklopol worth listening to < 1236555638 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats estoppel -----### < 1236555645 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :estoppel: you deserve to be banned for life from here for getting annoyed at oklopol okoing < 1236555647 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everyone is back to their own selves < 1236555652 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats the swatter -----### < 1236555656 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: he is exempt from the rules. < 1236555658 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey! < 1236555664 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION yo dawg < 1236555669 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :estoppel: heh thanks for linking the c++ interview, always brings a smile on my face < 1236555674 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waves a butterfly net vaguely in the direction of everyone -----\XXXXX/ < 1236555684 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: don't you mean "unto my face" < 1236555691 0 :Jophish!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1236555698 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION undoes faces < 1236555711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads the C++ FQA < 1236555729 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236555743 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is FQA "frequently questioned answers", or what? < 1236555753 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, frequently questioned answers < 1236555883 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=arvid@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236555925 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... the FQA's annoyances with C++ seem to stem around the fact that it isn't a properly OO language < 1236555931 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I agree with < 1236555943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using C++ as a not-quite-C language, though, it's quite good < 1236555959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and being me, I see an undecidable grammar as an advantage not a disadvantage < 1236555974 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ don't read this, it's impossible. just count the lines < 1236555980 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I like that comment < 1236555987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should have been two slashes, but copy/paste fail < 1236556015 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;; far out man < 1236556025 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236556026 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1236556036 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((lambda (lambda) (lambda lambda)) (lambda (lambda) (lambda lambda)) < 1236556038 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duuuuuuuuuude. < 1236556046 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo dawg < 1236556057 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hip just to say the yo dawg nowadays < 1236556061 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or say xzibit < 1236556077 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :estoppel: "duuuuuuuuuude"? are you channelling mezzacotta? < 1236556095 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's not a dude, he's a dudette < 1236556095 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xz < 1236556103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : sorry, but if you're channeling psygnisfive, I want to channel AnMaster < 1236556105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1236556113 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cocks. < 1236556117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster does, IIRC < 1236556117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : but, it gives too many warnings < 1236556123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on how you write < 1236556125 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats AnMaster and psygnisfive -----### < 1236556133 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1236556133 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1236556134 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1236556134 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :murr < 1236556135 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1236556136 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it again ;o < 1236556137 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1236556140 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1236556140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1236556141 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm channeling the basic essence of AnMaster. < 1236556143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of scrollback < 1236556146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from a few hours < 1236556156 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats psygnisfive on his bare bottom -----### < 1236556162 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GET A ROOM < 1236556163 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that you, ehird? < 1236556168 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1236556171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: yes, it's ehird < 1236556171 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am a ninja from outer space. < 1236556172 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh, you do a great AnMaster < 1236556176 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 is a liar. < 1236556178 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do not trust him. < 1236556180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, stop being silly < 1236556190 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop being silly? < 1236556190 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. < 1236556191 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. < 1236556195 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :silly things I'm doing now... < 1236556197 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right, esolangs < 1236556198 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1236556199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1236556203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HATE openvz < 1236556216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1236556232 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :estoppel was estopped :DDDDDDDDDDDD < 1236556232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't even reboot host < 1236556240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had to remount / readonly and do reboot -f < 1236556251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the vm thingy was locked up in kernel < 1236556253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1236556265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ^ < 1236556283 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiling an OpenVZ-patched kernel gave me warnings like net/ipv4/route.c:2922:2: warning: #warning "Rework this shit via ro net sysctls" < 1236556289 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was not very confidence-inspiring. < 1236556299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: wow < 1236556311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I have no idea why/what happened < 1236556317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also I'm glad it is multi core < 1236556320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the remounting / readonly, did you do it via magic SysRq, and if not, why not? < 1236556324 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: haha < 1236556327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :root 20042 99.9 0.0 0 0 ? R 17:21 15:02 [vzmond/200] < 1236556336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kill -9 didn't work < 1236556342 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: < 1236556343 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[2009-02-25 09:29:50] Also some sort of vzmond kernel thread had gotten hung up during the night. :p < 1236556344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh, your computer was still responding? < 1236556347 0 :estoppel!n=ehird@208.78.103.223 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236556349 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're not the only one here. < 1236556357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [2009-02-25 09:29:50] Also some sort of vzmond kernel thread had gotten hung up during the night. :p <-- ? < 1236556359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236556361 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes something estarting < 1236556368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so how do I avoid this < 1236556369 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Wasn't on this channel, I mean. < 1236556377 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Who knows? I just started to use linux-vserver instead. < 1236556380 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Rework this shit via ro net sysctls" < 1236556386 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like the start of a nerdcore rap. < 1236556391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : also, the remounting / readonly, did you do it via magic SysRq, and if not, why not? <-- not because I only have ssh access < 1236556401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's a good reason < 1236556406 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an annoyingly good reason < 1236556411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mount -fo remount,ro / < 1236556413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like magic SysRq too much... < 1236556414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what I did < 1236556419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then sync < 1236556422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and reboot -f < 1236556423 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sysrq is hot, I wish I had a sysrq key < 1236556423 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suddenly realizes there must exist such a thing as nerdcore rap < 1236556434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :estoppel, doesn't every keyboard? < 1236556439 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: of course it exists! < 1236556440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same as PrtScr < 1236556442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually < 1236556446 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :estoppel: SysRq was originally invented because back then it was believed a multitasking operating system would be impossible without it < 1236556447 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not apple ones. < 1236556454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but rather than use it for its intended purpose < 1236556455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what? < 1236556463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you mean < 1236556468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all sorts of things like alt-tab and control-alt-delete were used instead < 1236556473 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nerdcore rap is amusing < 1236556475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would it be needed? < 1236556478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so that applications could use all the keys on the keyboard for what they wanted < 1236556483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236556488 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd need a special key that the applications didn't use to switch between them < 1236556515 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIK, Linux is the only OS that actually uses SysRq for its intended meaning of "do something directly to the kernel without applications interfering" < 1236556517 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.monzy.com/intro/drama_lyrics.html < 1236556521 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Your problem, Plus Plus, is that your typing isn't strict: < 1236556521 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In ML my type is real and your type is 'a dict." < 1236556525 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance Alt-SysRq-K is the secure attention key < 1236556546 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas windows uses control-alt-del for that < 1236556547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is an useful debug key yes < 1236556559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact it multiplexes all the direct-kernel functions onto control-alt-del < 1236556568 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is kind of ridiculous for something that's that hard to type with one hand < 1236556580 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although admittedly sysrq isn't much easier < 1236556586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't have to use it as much, though < 1236556593 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only in an emergency, and on login if you're really paranoid < 1236556595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this ultrathin keyboard layout is ridiculou < 1236556600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ridiculous* < 1236556618 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, I'm planning on replacing this keyboard with an ultrathin one < 1236556619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PgUp is located just right of space < 1236556624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is so silly < 1236556629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION prefers full size < 1236556630 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://images.apple.com/euro/keyboard/scripts/gallery/wireless_1_20070813.jpg < 1236556643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(did anyone else here know that if you type Alt-SysRq-K at something that looks like a login screen on Linux, it kills all processes that might intercept your typing so you know you're typing at a real login prompt rather than a program pretending to be one?) < 1236556649 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(don't click if you're using a pc-101 kb right now) < 1236556652 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you might have a heart attack) < 1236556653 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :estoppel, it is also compact and smaller than full size < 1236556665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know if that works on graphical logins < 1236556670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :estoppel, this one at least has a numeric keyboard < 1236556672 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what fn is for < 1236556673 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the SAK is a neat security trick < 1236556679 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you can get the wired version with a numpad < 1236556685 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my numpad usage is a bad habit < 1236556686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :estoppel, and it is weird < 1236556688 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slow context switch < 1236556691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has all the keys < 1236556697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not where you expect them < 1236556705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :estoppel: I've seen one fo those before, the return key looks a bit small < 1236556715 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my return key is that size on this one < 1236556717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236556720 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't actually diminish tap-power < 1236556723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :return key should be two lines < 1236556723 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, backslash is in an awful place < 1236556724 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's hard to miss return anyway... < 1236556729 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again, same here < 1236556729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like on Swedish keyboards < 1236556733 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's comfortable, actually < 1236556737 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :close to the home row when typing paths < 1236556751 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like the colour scheme either, but then I don't like the colour scheme of this keyboard < 1236556761 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gdoddamnit < 1236556780 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, what self-respecting typist can do without ¬? < 1236556797 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the standard 101-key layout has all the printable characters in ASCII but also all the printable characters in EBCDIC) < 1236556804 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :¬ is in EBCDIC but not ASCII < 1236556812 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it always confused me why that was there, until I found out < 1236556831 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, why not < 1236556841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :estoppel: wouldn't the fn be for changing between the main and subsidiary functions of the F-keys? < 1236556849 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a fn here < 1236556851 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so shrug < 1236556853 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly though < 1236556854 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey guys debug my code for me < 1236556862 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: what language is it in? < 1236556866 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c < 1236556878 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you like, I'll debug by translating it into a different language, and also to a program that does something entirely different < 1236556880 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236556885 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rewrite it in scheme. then we'll talk! < 1236556889 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, here's a less buggy version: ,[.[-],] < 1236556908 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to use ehird's favoured EOF statement whilst still preserving one of the other two options < 1236556928 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pity it probably does something different, and is in the wrong language < 1236556930 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that doesn't work for EOF = -1 < 1236556938 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: yes, as mentioned above < 1236556945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EOF = 0, EOF = -1, EOF = no change are the three most common options < 1236556982 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and although you can't distinguish between them with 100% certainty, assuming random input and a program that reads all its input before doing any output you can distinguish between them with any non-100% certainty you like < 1236556990 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :estoppel: not really suited for scheme < 1236556996 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I know < 1236556997 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1236556999 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*:) < 1236557000 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can it not be? < 1236557008 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like saying something isn't really suited for Haskell < 1236557008 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's comex's morse program < 1236557011 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't really do that in Scheme :P < 1236557012 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that it is really suited for INTERCAL < 1236557109 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that number game called again? < 1236557115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nim < 1236557116 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :estoppel: mine's better! < 1236557120 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are two games with that name, though < 1236557123 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 5 7, your move < 1236557130 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 5 7 < 1236557135 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 5 5 < 1236557141 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what game? < 1236557145 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 1 5 < 1236557148 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 1 0 < 1236557152 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck < 1236557153 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 0 0 < 1236557156 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I win < 1236557160 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: the game starts with three numbres < 1236557162 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION downloads Cobalt < 1236557162 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: basically < 1236557164 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have 3 numbers < 1236557165 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :players take it in turns to reduce a number < 1236557168 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can reduce one by any amount each turn < 1236557171 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only one column per turn < 1236557175 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, you can reduce any of them by any amount, but only one number at a time < 1236557177 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the person who removes the last loses < 1236557180 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you say 0 0 0, you lose, and you can't go negative < 1236557200 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's pearls before swine < 1236557207 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1236557209 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that game < 1236557211 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never heard that name before < 1236557218 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's relatively well known < 1236557223 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* Pearls Before Swine (game), a puzzle/logic game using the Nim format < 1236557225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty good at it, but oerjan is just as good as I am < 1236557239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :estoppel: you just looked it up on Wikipedia? < 1236557243 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236557260 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION listens to kerlo's tune < 1236557264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : anyway, what self-respecting typist can do without ¬? <-- where? < 1236557264 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I am going to intuitively progressively optimize a nim solver. or something. < 1236557268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't find it < 1236557271 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first time: random moves < 1236557272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on my keyboards < 1236557274 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then: brute force < 1236557276 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then we'll see. < 1236557298 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :protip: brute force is pretty good < 1236557318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's shift-` on this keyboard < 1236557323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236557328 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they left it off most of the non-UK ones, though, they have no sense of style < 1236557338 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should expand my tune. < 1236557353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, on this keyboard shift-' is `. That is ' as in the dead key creating é < 1236557369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if you hold both shift keys? < 1236557373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here, ` is to the left of 1 < 1236557375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1236557391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, §1234567890+' < 1236557396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then backspace < 1236557397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes a mental note to mark jokes when AnMaster's in here, and to a lesser extent ehird because he never gets metahumour < 1236557417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I got the both shift key joke < 1236557424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even without the marker < 1236557445 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear Windows: Please never block things again. Love, Sgeo < 1236557455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Keyboard_layout#Swedish.2FFinnish < 1236557458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ^ < 1236557463 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: what's it blocking? < 1236557471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IO? < 1236557472 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The files from OpenCobalt < 1236557477 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how? < 1236557485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :opencobalt? < 1236557488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh uh < 1236557491 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should also find a MID editor that is capable of playing MIDs. < 1236557503 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: here on Linux I use Rosegarden < 1236557512 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it needs Timidity or something like that to be able to do the actual playing < 1236557517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236557520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not related to cobol < 1236557523 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timidity, eh? < 1236557527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth < 1236557532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the insert key < 1236557535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing above backspace < 1236557540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on this compact keyboard < 1236557545 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I was back on Windows I used Magix Notation, but that's a for-pay commercial app, although a very cheap one < 1236557554 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: insert's above backspace on my laptop < 1236557563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :above is a good place when to the right of backspace wouldn't fit on the laptop < 1236557565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I hate non-full size keyboard < 1236557566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1236557574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are harder to type on too < 1236557638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need full size to be able to type properly < 1236557650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and keys that properly go down < 1236557651 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :full size as in full number of keys, or full size as in not scaled down? < 1236557657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, both! < 1236557662 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my laptop keys go down properly and are the normal size, there just aren't as many of them < 1236557682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I mean like the clicky keyboards < 1236557690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://science.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/03/08/2155216&from=rss Slashdot have started talking about Wolfram Alpha < 1236557696 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's see what snarky jokes they make of it < 1236557721 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmm < 1236557732 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's play ONE COLUMN NIM < 1236557733 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 < 1236557744 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 < 1236557752 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bollocks. < 1236557752 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1236557759 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what about infinite column nim < 1236557760 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a particularly useful game, really... < 1236557774 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and infinite column would only be fun if only finitely many were nonzero < 1236557783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case it's equivalent to finite column nim < 1236557799 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise the game would necessarily take infinite time < 1236557835 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 5 < 1236557839 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hardcore nim. :P < 1236557844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :estoppel: that's a won position for you < 1236557849 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can probably win from it < 1236557851 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1236557852 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 5 < 1236557854 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 4 < 1236557861 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 1 < 1236557864 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 1 < 1236557877 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :f < 1236557879 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 0 < 1236557879 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the strategy with two columns is not very difficult < 1236557898 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make them equal, then copy your opponent until you have a chance to set it to 0 1 < 1236558050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's how it works. Publishing stuff makes sense. Face to face conversations and e-mail conversations make sense. Conversations in the form of articles replying to other articles make sense some of the time. Comment thread conversations are futile. Special case: Usenet conversations are futile. If they are moderated, they are futile and (almost) polite. < 1236558111 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brute force Nim: Select a column number and decrement number, optimizing the number of times you win when playing against yourself < 1236558111 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a stupid piece of crap < 1236558126 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now let's see if that finishes before the universe overs. < 1236558312 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grumble, why doesn't (f '(1 2 3) '(4 5 6)) -> ((1 4) (1 5) (1 6) (2 4) (2 5) (2 6) (3 4) (3 5) (3 6)) come with Scheme? < 1236558316 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least srfi-1 < 1236558338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236558353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what game? < 1236558364 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NIM ALREADY < 1236558371 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do so many people ask that... < 1236558377 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :backlog, sheesh < 1236558378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NIM? < 1236558383 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nim. < 1236558398 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: do you know the rules? < 1236558407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236558411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard of the game < 1236558413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :estoppel: clearly you need to mix Scheme with Mathematica's standard library < 1236558418 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1236558419 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's what my Enigma puzzle was modelling < 1236558424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236558435 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have three (or more) numbers, which are nonnegative integers < 1236558439 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :players take turns reducing a number < 1236558443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can reduce a number as far as you like < 1236558446 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but only one number on your turn < 1236558450 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you reduce them all to 0, you lose < 1236558543 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are there any free Mathematica-like tools? < 1236558549 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236558551 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maxima, SAGE, ... < 1236558568 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Nim has been mathematically solved for any number of initial heaps and objects; that is, there is an easily-calculated way to determine which player will win and what winning moves are open to that player.' < 1236558575 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so even though it's solved there's absolutely no skill element at all? < 1236558577 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lame lame lam < 1236558577 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1236558624 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey ais523 < 1236558628 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enigma level pack 2 < 1236558628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the solution is absolutely beautiful, though < 1236558629 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :level 16 < 1236558633 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :estoppel: what about it? < 1236558637 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's nim < 1236558645 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION awaits "AAARGH!!" < 1236558648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about keyboards < 1236558660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION uploads image < 1236558663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :estoppel: what, "Beam04"? < 1236558666 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236558668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's Enignimm which is level 12 < 1236558670 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's meant to be called Enignimm < 1236558673 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's the other nim < 1236558673 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooops < 1236558675 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not nearly as fun < 1236558677 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236558684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ehird: http://omploader.org/vMWNraw < 1236558687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the keyboard < 1236558695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keyboards < 1236558696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even < 1236558697 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1236558700 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care about your keyboards < 1236558707 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why should I be interested...? < 1236558708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I find the black one extremely hard to use < 1236558838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :estoppel, why should I care about the keyboard you considered getting? < 1236558860 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you shouldn't, I was remarking after you talked about the compact keyboard < 1236558871 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your showing of your keyboards had no relevance beyond the tenuous 'keyboard' conversation tract < 1236558902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are just saying that because it was me that talked about it < 1236558933 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I am in a world conspiracy to say as many bad things about you as possible, even if they're true < 1236558936 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what _is_ this other nim you keep mentioning? < 1236558936 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :horrible < 1236558963 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: like ordinary nim, but with only one number, and you can only reduce it by at most 3 at a time < 1236558972 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236558976 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is very very horrible, and any competent mathematician can solve it in their head in about 10 seconds < 1236558986 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1236558992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of my acquaintances uses it to win bets against drunk people < 1236559010 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now if you have several heaps like that, it gets a bit more interesting < 1236559025 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but not much < 1236559034 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know about Sprague-Grundy analysis? < 1236559044 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although as i recall, it's simpler than ordinary nim because some heap sizes are equivalent < 1236559045 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's basically a method of solving games by proving them equivalent to regular nim < 1236559047 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236559064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the limited-nim game is equivalent to regular nim with heaps no bigger than 2 < 1236559078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that the last-player-loses vs. last-player-wins thing messes up the analysis < 1236559080 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, my combinations function is really ugly < 1236559106 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't it always < 1236559114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236559128 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sprague-Grundy only really works properly if 0 0 0 is a win, and that's not the way nim's normally played < 1236559282 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (combinations '(a b) '(c d)) < 1236559282 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'((a c) (b c) (a d) (b d)) < 1236559284 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\m/ < 1236559297 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does \m/ mean, anyway? < 1236559302 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :metal hand < 1236559308 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what does that mean? < 1236559318 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :\ , , / , < 1236559327 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where , = finger | last , = thumb | \ = raised finger < 1236559340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, what does a metal hand indicate, apart from the literal definition? < 1236559360 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"awesome"? :P < 1236559380 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it's vulgar in mediterranean countries < 1236559381 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently < 1236559445 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/private/zreddamkpevzsxtxjz4w < 1236559449 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vomit worthy code < 1236559472 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember writing that function in OCaml < 1236559489 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was purely functional, and didn't look at all like that < 1236559592 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're welcome to supply a better algorithm :P < 1236559614 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, I have to define my own func (upto 5) -> (0 1 2 3 4) < 1236559699 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grrrrrr < 1236559702 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't even use combinations < 1236559709 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since my second argument depends on the value of the first < 1236559888 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so irritating. < 1236560134 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236560647 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, I apparently have Timidity already. < 1236560698 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you just need Paranoia, Despair and Panic < 1236560768 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer Apprehension to Paranoia and Dread to Despair. I'm waiting for Neurosis to reach version 1.0 so I can replace Panic with it. < 1236560841 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would recommend Psychosis, although it is not quite stable < 1236560859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo, are you talking about software? < 1236560871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Timidity and (cd)Paranoia exists... < 1236560877 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, just pretending. < 1236560887 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except when I mentioned Timidity. < 1236560889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had to restart client < 1236560892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so lost scrollback < 1236560912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(bouncer still connected though < 1236560914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1236560954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo, also timidity is crap < 1236560956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the software that is < 1236560960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it crashes all the time < 1236560971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer using hardware midi < 1236560974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :way more stable < 1236561603 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Here's one "combinations", which isn't very pretty either, but at least it isn't all for-each set!y: http://pastie.org/private/ar5balcakbcw9mkmpq2a < 1236561613 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that's nicer < 1236561628 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers buying one of the nice new mac pros with the nehalem processors < 1236561634 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I sleeps.) < 1236561995 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where's the abomination against using rafb.net in the topic? < 1236562036 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1236562713 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, the topic-lock anyway. < 1236562731 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :-t < 1236564140 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1236564648 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236566848 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who wants to learn lojban with me < 1236566906 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your mom. < 1236567056 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlikely. < 1236567076 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION pokes kerlo < 1236567080 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 101 (Network is unreachable) < 1236567084 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo's a lojban person < 1236567649 0 :psygnisfive!n=psygnisf@c-71-57-164-119.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236568084 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of learning lojban, why not just stick a rusty fork in your eye? < 1236568324 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the better to see you with < 1236569663 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236572396 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ello. < 1236572432 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: because sticking a rusty fork in my eye wouldn't teach me anything. < 1236572490 0 :Dewi!n=dewi@124-171-168-232.dyn.iinet.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1236573108 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1236573180 0 :Robdgreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might teach you the importance of staying current with your tetanus shots < 1236573200 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: it will teach you a lot. < 1236575508 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :G'night all < 1236575828 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236584154 0 :asiekierk!i=africalo@078088180066.elb.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1236584157 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAM! < 1236584161 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236584163 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no < 1236584166 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+t is off < 1236584174 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and my auto-topic-change script is still working < 1236584177 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO-ONE CHANGE THE TOPIC < 1236584218 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice weather outside, isn't it? < 1236584246 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...What? < 1236584255 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, quite, if not for that it's 7:35 AM < 1236584260 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, 7:37 actually < 1236584262 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah! < 1236584271 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I changed the topic! < 1236584274 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1236584275 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1236584279 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the topic above < 1236584282 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one in green < 1236584293 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, the one with divulgations, apples and words < 1236584343 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you change it, onoz we're doomed < 1236584351 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[or someone kicks me, cuz i don't have autorejoin]] < 1236584362 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hopefully made it so it ignores me < 1236584370 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there's no "I change topic and it changes topic" < 1236584373 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except if I change the nick < 1236584374 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so nah < 1236584487 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :morning < 1236584490 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :morning < 1236584540 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good morning, and welcome to #esoteric. < 1236584664 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I'm bored < 1236584672 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should i broadcast my desktop again < 1236584673 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | NO-ONE CHANGE THE TOPIC < 1236584680 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I told you :(* < 1236584681 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1236584683 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1236584685 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't work on me < 1236584686 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1236584696 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*whew* < 1236584717 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | NO-ONE CHANGE THE TOPIC (except me or when i'm off) < 1236584726 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohai < 1236584730 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | NO-ONE CHANGE THE TOPIC (except me or when i'm off, then you can) < 1236584732 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hai < 1236584739 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/private/qb2tg9bvpnsv2rw2q0ljgg <<< wtf is this, why do i have broken c in my browser? < 1236584756 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know < 1236584804 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: http://pastie.org/private/qb2tg9bvpnsv2rw2q0ljgg This may or may not work, YMMV. <<< doesn't look like it will, not that i know the context < 1236584822 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't drink and code < 1236584830 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you drink too much, it becomes quite a mess < 1236584856 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should've guessed it was from here < 1236584876 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i haven't tried drinking and coding much yet < 1236584885 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've decided to learn that at some point tho < 1236584901 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236584905 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exam in 10 minutes < 1236584927 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know of someone who coded on LSD < 1236584929 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should probably get out of the wc and head to uni < 1236584936 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably. < 1236584951 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sweepin* < 1236585042 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, i'm taking this baby with me, so going offline. < 1236585048 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some undefined meaning of baby < 1236585049 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1236585081 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"how is babby formed? how girl get pragnent?" < 1236585099 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"they need to way instate mother> who murder thier babbys." < 1236585113 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"once, a woman in ar" < 1236585122 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"i am truely sorry for your lots." < 1236585599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1236585791 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1236585791 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236585799 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why doesn't teh internetz work for m---wait, it does < 1236586160 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236586850 0 :tombom!i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1236587170 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh... why does this firefox, when I try to middle-mouse-paste in oklopol's ehird-quote-URL, pop up a dialog saying: "ASSERT: *** Search: _installLocation: engine has no file!" and then a 11-item stack-trace. < 1236587193 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, same for entering any URL in the location bar. < 1236587233 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a hunch they've sneakily been updating the browser installation on these workstations, and now it's a needs-a-restart confused. < 1236588489 0 :jix!n=jix@paed-gw.schule.bremen.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1236589479 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-86-7.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236589896 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236590178 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236590462 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"..." < 1236593519 0 :asiekierk!i=africalo@078088180066.elb.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1236593521 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow < 1236593532 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I just made a Videocrypt encoder/decoder < 1236593534 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm not sure < 1236593541 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would need a Videocrypt decoder supporting a seed < 1236593739 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But interline correlation (the VirtualDub VC decoder) works, albeit the same as with 99% of other VC decryptions < 1236593970 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Client Excited" < 1236595554 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know < 1236595569 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Checkerboard+Videocrypt+Interline Decoding=Cafe Wall < 1236601128 0 :Jophish!n=Jophish@80-47-69-80.lond-hex.dynamic.dial.as9105.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1236601881 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@a91-153-121-248.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1236603116 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modifying AsieCrypt to be more unique < 1236603121 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by adding color encryption < 1236603598 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and variable line swapping < 1236605120 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1236605663 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone here < 1236607544 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.128 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236608008 0 :ais523_!i=93bc93e6@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-714ca943dd7ed52c JOIN :#esoteric < 1236608020 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1236608024 0 :ais523_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523 < 1236611183 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-045-061.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1236611724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client" < 1236611759 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1236612297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1236612301 0 :ehird!n=ehird@208.78.103.223 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236612660 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-2-230.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236612854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1236612856 0 :ehird!n=ehird@208.78.103.223 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236612864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi, ais523. < 1236612868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, you are there right? < 1236612899 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=arvid@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236615143 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe he's not < 1236615145 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i am < 1236615145 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly < 1236615160 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you are almost ais < 1236615284 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1236615286 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, right < 1236615390 0 :impomatic!n=John@nat67.mia.three.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1236615441 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ehird: I've ordered one of those Arduino microcontrollers. < 1236615447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool :-) < 1236615457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let us know how it goes! < 1236615467 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I don't enjoy programming it, I know who to blame :-P < 1236615473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; < 1236615475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236615527 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just trying to learn how to program it before it arrives < 1236616381 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ZigoZipo < 1236616558 0 :ZireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236616576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION zwats ZigoZipo ----ZZZZ < 1236616578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236616580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZireFly. < 1236616591 0 :ZireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := FireFly < 1236616609 0 :ZireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZigoZipo = MigoMipo wanted me to change my nick to something that begins with a Z < 1236616654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :===> how is babby formed? < 1236616654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Infant < 1236616656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In basic English usage, an infant is defined as a human child at the youngest stage of life, specifically before they can walk and generally before the age of one (see also child and adolescent). < 1236616659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The term "infant" derives from the Latin word in-fans, meaning "unable to speak." There is no exact definition for infancy. "Infant" is also a legal term with the meaning of minor; that is, any child under the age of legal adulthood. < 1236616663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Source: Wikipedia < 1236616665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— http://start.csail.mit.edu/ < 1236616756 0 :ZigoZipo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1236616818 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-2-230.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236616926 0 :ZireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :FireFly < 1236617077 0 :Hiato!n=1@dsl-245-24-250.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1236617810 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1236617879 0 :Hiato!n=1@dsl-245-24-250.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1236618025 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236618050 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=arvid@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236618110 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-027-168.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1236618334 0 :Dewi!n=dewi@124-171-184-160.dyn.iinet.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1236621866 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.128 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236622183 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: god that thing sucks. < 1236622186 0 :jix_!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-106-163.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1236622730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1236622758 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1236622769 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236622823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[to compose a bunch of procedures that each take 20 arguments < 1236622823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and return 20 results. ]] < 1236622827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"so don't do that" < 1236622832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, why'rn't I estoppel? < 1236622835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :estoppel < 1236623015 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, my intensive module today nearly made my head explode < 1236623024 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have problems even trying to think of it, so I'll translate into programming terms < 1236623027 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236623031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a sort of extended metaphor < 1236623041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imagine you have a nice, clean, and well-understood interpreted programming language < 1236623047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to choose Python as an example < 1236623060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but unfortunately it's whitespace-sensitive and that ruins the example, so I'll use Ruby instead < 1236623069 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, Ruby's not all that fast compared to some programming languages < 1236623081 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and people have written slow Ruby programs for things that didn't need to work fast, and they've been fine < 1236623097 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1236623099 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, suppose you want to write in Ruby, it's the only language you can use < 1236623103 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you need to write fast < 1236623111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you optimise your Ruby to run quickly < 1236623111 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION scratch head < 1236623119 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahah < 1236623120 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you find that your program errors every now and then < 1236623122 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236623129 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it turns out that the interp's getting confused by whitespace < 1236623132 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does more or less the right thing < 1236623139 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if it tries to process the whitespace too quickly < 1236623145 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... excuse me, what < 1236623149 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it misinterprets it as Whitespace and the Whitespace gets mixed in with the regular program < 1236623152 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... i mean ... what ... < 1236623155 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :estoppel: it gets better, I haven't finished yet < 1236623180 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, this isn't really much of a problem for you, as you're an esoprogrammer < 1236623192 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, you find you can make your code even better by exploiting the Whitespace code to do useful things < 1236623206 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in fact for very fast programs you want to write huge parts of it entirely in Whitespace < 1236623216 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1236623225 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, what was the ACTUAL thing about < 1236623229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you consider this normal, interps are bound to malfunction a bit if you run them too fast due to not being perfect) < 1236623244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you find that with the whitespace running even faster, if you have exactly the right sequence < 1236623251 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg, i made a video encoder < 1236623254 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not supporting video < 1236623254 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you run commands that redefine syntax, or logic, or whatever < 1236623257 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but bitmap < 1236623257 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1236623266 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, encoder, er encrypter < 1236623271 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you're changing the syntax of Whitespace dynamically, and making ANDs into ORs, or whatever < 1236623281 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the head-explode moment was when I realised this also affected the Ruby it was embedded around < 1236623299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making ands into ors, and other things that made no sense in Ruby < 1236623317 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and as a result, your programs now only run at one exact speed, if you run them slightly faster or slower they fail) < 1236623372 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, what was the ACTUAL thing about < 1236623386 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :estoppel: microwave-frequency electronics < 1236623394 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think of ordinary electronics as the ruby < 1236623404 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and wires which shouldn't be doing anything but being wires as the whitespaec < 1236623406 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*whitespace < 1236623418 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My mother, attempting to use an old one button Mac mouse: "But, which button do I press?" < 1236623427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the left one, obviously < 1236624161 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"mov.i #1,1" < 1236624287 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god, now I'm going to wait forever for my Asiecrypt Encoder to finish encoding a 2-and-a-half-minute-YouTube-movie < 1236624287 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, nearly 3-minute, even < 1236624302 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does it encode it into? < 1236624319 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jmp #0, <-3 < 1236624336 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i mean encrypt < 1236624339 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3521 frames < 1236624341 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :into AsieCrypt < 1236624369 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or VideoCrypt+color swap every other line+replace random parts of 2 lines 120*25 (or 240*25) times < 1236624383 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, the color swap is the longest < 1236624385 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it takes a seed < 1236624398 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you doing this, anyway? < 1236624411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds rather like security by obscurity < 1236624414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it reversible? < 1236624417 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1236624419 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tested < 1236624421 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1236624422 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reversible < 1236624423 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VideoCrypt is < 1236624427 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Random replacing is... < 1236624434 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a NOT bitwise command is too < 1236624436 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh asiekierk, you are the living proof of poe's law. < 1236624441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poe's law? < 1236624442 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poe's law? < 1236624469 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1236624471 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google's law. < 1236624478 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/Poe's_Law < 1236624489 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :estoppel: that's a link, can you explain in English? < 1236624489 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/fundamentalism/ridiculous programming tasks/ < 1236624499 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, I do not exist to support your allergy to the web < 1236624500 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it did about 1000 frames < 1236624518 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :estoppel: then don't expect me to understand what you're saying, if you're unwilling to explain < 1236624520 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll be pleased to know that the target of the link is english embedded in HTML < 1236624520 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they DO look like a jumbled mess < 1236624532 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you're the one asking the question, it's your wish to find out, not mine < 1236624565 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the Asiecrypt Encoder is also (accidentally) a Videocrypt encoder < 1236624574 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a Videocrypt decoder too (if you know the seed) < 1236624607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :estoppel: I'm only asking because I don't understand what you said... < 1236624617 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and isn't the usual purpose of communication to, you know, convey information? < 1236624617 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I gave you a link to information on it, http://rationalwiki.com/wiki/Poe's_Law < 1236624626 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not my problem that you refuse to follow links to get information < 1236624670 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~1650 frames < 1236624671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's the Web! < 1236624676 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... so? < 1236624681 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the web is a web of information. < 1236624711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not nowadays, nowadays it's mostly a web of porn, spam, and adverts < 1236624727 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I linked you to one of them, I assure you I would note as such. < 1236624767 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, most websites have adverts nowadays < 1236624779 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so...? use adblock? < 1236624782 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lots of people talk about how things like adblock are a bad idea because they deprive the sites of advertising revenue < 1236624784 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there an use for the low-speed version of Asiecrypt (all enabled) except premium content NBTV? < 1236624793 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a business model based on advertising is shit. < 1236624799 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it strikes me that not visiting them is an even better way to deprive them of advertising revenue < 1236624826 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2250 frames < 1236624831 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1500 more! < 1236624834 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you miss out on their content < 1236624840 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loss for you, no great shakes to anyone else < 1236624863 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :estoppel: why doesn't everyone act as I do? The Web would become so much better more or less overnight < 1236624875 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and impomatic has Asiecrypt < 1236624876 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because some of us don't mind advertisements. < 1236624880 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((a buggy version, but still)) < 1236624887 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a vast majority of internet users see porn as a plus., < 1236624890 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither do I, actually, I just mentally ignore them if adblock doesn't catch them < 1236624908 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and porn is fine if you're looking for it, but tends not to be particularly informative < 1236624909 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So all that is left is spam. Everything has spam. Apart from Gopher. < 1236624916 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that's why I personally linked it. < 1236624922 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that you know I was linking to relevant information. < 1236624923 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2610 frames < 1236624930 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only 900 more, then joining and Youtubing < 1236625007 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2950... < 1236625088 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3260... < 1236625099 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1234... < 1236625110 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2428... < 1236625114 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9001 < 1236625117 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2789... < 1236625120 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Deewiant, you know that 1234 was one of my Seeds < 1236625126 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2001aspaceoddyssey < 1236625126 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3000... < 1236625126 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for testing < 1236625132 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how rare < 1236625134 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :42... (hint hint) < 1236625147 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3500... < 1236625158 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it did it < 1236625196 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it did did it < 1236625204 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must find out what the hell of an algorithm do I use cuz I don't remember :( < 1236625265 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh-oh < 1236625273 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems I did something irreversible and now i'm screwed < 1236625299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierk: don't you have the original? < 1236625305 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i do < 1236625309 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i must find out what is irreversible < 1236625341 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1236625341 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all seems to be < 1236625342 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o < 1236625349 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fail < 1236625367 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it must be a problem with my batch procedure-a-thon < 1236625400 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or i may know why < 1236625406 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't set the seed AFAIK < 1236625497 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something is terribly wrong < 1236625533 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierk: I still fail to see the advantage of what you're doing in the first place < 1236625543 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do too < 1236625548 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i'm just doing it for kicks < 1236625653 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1236625659 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can batch encode AND batch decode < 1236625663 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can encode AND decode < 1236625669 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i can't batch encode AND decode < 1236625674 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so something's terribly wrong with my algorithms < 1236625738 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, it's the common engineering problem: A, B, and C each work, A and B work together, B and C work together, but the combined A+B+C system fails for no apparent reason < 1236625766 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not really < 1236625779 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cuz it's A, B, C and D. A and B work, C and D work, but any other combinations fail < 1236625779 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A+B, C+D, and A+D in this case < 1236625790 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any other combinations in this case :P < 1236625794 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just A+D < 1236625797 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236625807 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well the only other one is B+C < 1236625814 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed you could encode files individually, then batch-decode the lot, from what you suggested < 1236625820 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1236625823 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can batch-encode too < 1236625824 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must have misparsed what you were talking about < 1236625825 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why bother < 1236625837 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also assumed you meant you could batch-encode then individually decode < 1236625842 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only thing is that I seem to have the same algorithms not cooperating with each other < 1236625847 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think I CAN see the problem < 1236625857 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically < 1236625860 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when encoding normally < 1236625865 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after lineswap, it resets the seed < 1236625869 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when batch-encoding, it does NOT < 1236625870 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"..." < 1236625894 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And i'm going to add a feature while I'm at it < 1236626008 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not < 1236626013 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's too painful and not really paying out < 1236626512 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://donsbot.wordpress.com/2009/03/09/evolving-faster-haskell-programs/ < 1236626528 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster would like that, for C < 1236626708 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :asie[away] < 1236626801 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :estoppel: is that going to be a new permanent nick for you? < 1236626825 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibly. Not sure :P < 1236626847 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a good real word for a nick < 1236626932 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it sounds like it means something deep. < 1236626956 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you know what it means :-P < 1236626965 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's still a relatively interesting thing if you know what it means < 1236626983 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, if you convince someone you don't plan to sue them, or act as if you won't < 1236626993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then if you do sue them you're unlikely to get very much in damages < 1236627015 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :common law is so funky :-P < 1236627029 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :B Nomic is saner than common law < 1236627435 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... it seems that e4 vs. d4 can inspire a Holy War on chess channels < 1236627442 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c4! < 1236627467 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or f4 < 1236627548 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: strange that it would < 1236627555 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be pretty easy to resolve < 1236627559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? < 1236627560 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: You must be a d4 player < 1236627562 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like emacs vs. vi < 1236627566 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: by setting up a match < 1236627574 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: what, one match? < 1236627577 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two matches < 1236627578 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d4 players vs e4 players, one game? < 1236627581 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although a worldwide e4 vs. d4 match might be good < 1236627589 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :organised via one of the big chess websites < 1236627645 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was it Kasparov that that one collaborative Internet match was played against? < 1236627650 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but what exactly are they arguing about, then < 1236627658 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is better, obviously < 1236627663 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better how? < 1236627672 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone in there's claiming that white playing d4 is effectively giving black an advantage, it's that bad < 1236627676 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More likely to lead to victory? < 1236627680 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm trying to come to the defence of d4 < 1236627687 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, that's a typical definition of better in chess < 1236627733 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.e. of all the possible games that can be played from that point on, more lead to a white win or draw than to a black win < 1236627857 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't you just look at a database of existing professional games? < 1236627938 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do that in Go < 1236628559 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236628768 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (define (halt-and-catch-fire) < 1236628768 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (/ 1 0) < 1236628770 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (halt-and-catch-fire)) < 1236628778 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The preferred error-signalling procedure for all purposes. < 1236628780 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is that in an infinite loop? < 1236628798 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in case the interpreter neglects to signal the division by zero and continues execution. < 1236628800 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because most machines don't catch fire from just dividing by zero, in my experience < 1236628829 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the program catching fire, not the system :D < 1236628840 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that's boring < 1236628856 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been on systems which could be set on fire in software < 1236628863 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: awesome, which? < 1236628866 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in theory, at least, in practice there normally wasn't enough current flowing < 1236628869 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :estoppel: microcontrollers < 1236628879 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Desktop machines can be set on fire in software < 1236628885 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, (/ 1 0) doesn't have to error in Scheme. < 1236628889 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can be +inf.0 < 1236628909 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(scheme-report-environment -1) is specified to fail, though. < 1236628910 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I assumed you intended it to not error < 1236628923 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't error in most langs, nowadays, at least if interpreted as floating point division < 1236628930 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (define (wrong msg) < 1236628930 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (display "** ERROR ** ") < 1236628931 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (display msg) < 1236628933 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, except C, (/ 1 0) errors pretty badly in C < 1236628933 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (newline) < 1236628935 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (scheme-report-environment -1)) < 1236628936 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to not being valid syntax < 1236628937 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :; no values returned < 1236628939 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (wrong "Division by elephant") < 1236628941 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :** ERROR ** Division by elephant < 1236628943 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error: no such Scheme report environment < 1236628945 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (&error) < 1236628947 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, flood. SOrry. < 1236628966 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Are there languages in which it would error out when interpreted as a floating point division? < 1236628996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C programs are certainly allowed to send signals on FP division by zero, just generally don't < 1236628998 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> (wrong "no such Scheme report environment") < 1236628998 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :** ERROR ** no such Scheme report environment < 1236629000 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Error: no such Scheme report environment < 1236629059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does Scheme have exceptions? < 1236629064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you simulate them by hand using call/cc? < 1236629070 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. (R6RS isn't scheme, so I'll disregard it.) < 1236629084 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can simulate them; many implementations provide an isomorphic mechanism. < 1236629090 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're not very Scheme, though. < 1236629096 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, simulating exceptions is pretty easy when you have c < 1236629106 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-34/srfi-34.html < 1236629111 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Exception Handling for Programs". < 1236629145 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conditions, more elegant than Exceptions since, iirc, the handlers aren't call/cc'ed, just called: < 1236629148 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-35/srfi-35.html < 1236629150 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://srfi.schemers.org/srfi-36/srfi-36.html < 1236629170 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scheme48 uses SRFI-36 conditions to signal parse errors < 1236629178 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the like < 1236629191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although tbh a jmp_buf stack is enough for handling exceptions, you don't need anything nearly as advanced as call/cc < 1236629197 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the slash, anyway? < 1236629210 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It stands for "with". < 1236629223 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not "per"? not "over"? < 1236629236 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's short for call-with-current-continuation, because it calls the provided procedure with the current continuation. < 1236629241 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, call/cc is a non-standard abbreviation, only call-with-current-continuation is specified by R5RS. < 1236629248 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do (define call/cc call-with-current-continuation), ofc. < 1236629272 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236629313 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: As a sidenote, yes, the opposite of call-with-current-continuation exists ("Run this procedure with this other procedure as its continuation") < 1236629330 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(call-with-values f k) runs (f) with k as the continuation. < 1236629334 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, e.g.: < 1236629343 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(call-with-values (lambda () (values 1 2 3)) +) ;=> 6 < 1236629388 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was intended just to handle the N-return-values (instead of just 1) system added in R5RS, as you can see, but it works perfectly fine as call-with-this-continuation. < 1236629536 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1236629665 0 :asie[away]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, i miss ya old nick < 1236629834 0 :asie[away]!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :asiekierk < 1236629849 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words, and here are the logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | NO-ONE CHANGE THE TOPIC (except me or when i'm off, then you can) < 1236629909 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D < 1236629922 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i warned you < 1236629940 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | DON'T CHANGE THE TOPIC WHILE ASIEKIERKA IS ON < 1236629941 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | Darn estoppel beat me < 1236629948 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I don't give a shit about your irritating I-own-the-topic-and-it-is-my-personal-playground-of-hilarity stuff that you have carried out for months and months. < 1236629950 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D < 1236629960 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :months? < 1236629974 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: He's done it ever since he first entered here, as far as I can tell. < 1236629976 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | asiekierka owns the topic, not asiekeierk < 1236629980 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I TOLD YOU < 1236629982 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D < 1236629984 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go away. < 1236629984 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Topic now property of Slereah | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D < 1236629987 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1236629988 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1236629994 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Well, that worked. < 1236629995 0 :asiekierk!i=africalo@078088180066.elb.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1236629996 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that why +t was on recently? < 1236630000 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yes < 1236630000 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236630003 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will be cruel but fair < 1236630003 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone put +t on now < 1236630005 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236630006 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie set it because asiekierk was being irritating. < 1236630007 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D < 1236630009 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can change it myself < 1236630011 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wait < 1236630013 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Can we have some +t? < 1236630025 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we don't need to < 1236630029 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except if you change the topic < 1236630050 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Au contraire, you are proof we need it. < 1236630053 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the problem with the topic? < 1236630061 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If someone else changes it < 1236630065 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: asiekierk thinks he owns it and keeps spamming it with pointless rubbish whenever we change it. < 1236630073 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I just have a script < 1236630074 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recommended solution: temporary +t. It worked yesterday. < 1236630077 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1236630078 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierk: Turn your script off < 1236630081 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236630085 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would need to restart mIRC < 1236630086 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm too lazy < 1236630091 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Restart mIRC. < 1236630108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | http://127.0.0.1/../../etc/passwd < 1236630115 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1236630117 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :restarting mirc < 1236630121 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :change the topic in the meanwhile < 1236630123 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1236630128 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: omg it has your passwords in < 1236630129 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahaha idiot < 1236630133 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i 0wnz ur boxen < 1236630148 0 :asiekierk!i=africalo@078088180066.elb.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1236630152 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ohai < 1236630156 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :estoppel: really? it's a 404 for me < 1236630167 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does "turning your script off" imply "now I'll do it manually", asiekierk? < 1236630170 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a terrible feeling it does. < 1236630170 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now try to change the topic so I can know whether or not the script problem is fixed < 1236630173 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierk: i still don't get it, what happens when we change the topic? < 1236630175 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. < 1236630177 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does the script do? < 1236630178 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: he puts it back because he owns it < 1236630182 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't < 1236630184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | http://127.0.0.1:8080/../../etc/passwd < 1236630184 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww. You always need to change the topic... :( < 1236630184 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's -t < 1236630188 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1236630194 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's my script v2 < 1236630211 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wait < 1236630214 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta fix the spelling < 1236630218 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION drums fingers. < 1236630234 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, done < 1236630238 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will restart later < 1236630256 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean you have a new topic changing script? < 1236630259 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236630265 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean I have a stupid reply on topic change script < 1236630269 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works on everyone but me < 1236630275 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in < 1236630275 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Aww. You always need to change the topic... :( < 1236630281 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in slight variation form < 1236630285 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonderful, let's see if I can flood your client off the network. < 1236630292 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I just had a brilliant idea < 1236630292 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww. You never let me change the topic and always do it yourself... :( < 1236630294 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D < 1236630294 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww. You never let me change the topic and always do it yourself... :( < 1236630312 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww. You never let me change the topic and always do it yourself... :( < 1236630313 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow... I don't need to restart mIRC! < 1236630316 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1236630318 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rather too slow. < 1236630320 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh shit. < 1236630322 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1236630325 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't work with Google, though, let me find a less well-organised website < 1236630328 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is the severe internet here < 1236630345 0 :estoppel!n=ehird@208.78.103.223 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236630383 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | That's right, i DO look like an idiot! < 1236630392 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, it works apart from the date < 1236630396 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, wait, *look* like? < 1236630397 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww. You never let me change the topic and always do it yourself... :( < 1236630402 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierk, asiekierk. I'm afraid it's rather more severe than that. < 1236630411 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what is it? < 1236630416 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | That's right, i AM an idiot! < 1236630417 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierk: you realize that with a script like that you'd get banned from a bunch of channels. < 1236630423 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only works on #esoteric < 1236630424 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236630433 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you want me to remove it < 1236630434 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say so < 1236630437 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in < 1236630440 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He already did. < 1236630440 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :estoppel: http://pastebin.ca/1356726 < 1236630446 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You removed a script and replaced it with an equally irritating one. < 1236630448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :replace the time with the current time, and send it to port 80 on esolangs.org < 1236630453 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've written an HTTP Kimian quine < 1236630460 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now try, I think I disabled the script < 1236630461 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hahaha < 1236630490 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to do it with Google, but their error page is too complex < 1236630498 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you try now < 1236630504 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i disabled the script-o < 1236630512 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I thought "I know, I'll write an HTTP Kimian quine" < 1236630524 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :asie[away] < 1236630559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone other than estoppel: care about my quine < 1236630561 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | If there is an asiekierka in the building, please evacuate all brains. Thanks! < 1236630588 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ** Memory exhausted trying to allocate 6 billion objects < 1236630591 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dumping core < 1236630593 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ < 1236630605 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1236630622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bit more than 6 billion nowadays, isn't it? < 1236630626 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably. < 1236630626 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, that was anycast not broadcast < 1236630635 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prologiverse doesn't know that. < 1236630643 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The human population on Earth is greater than 6.7 billion, as of February, 2009" < 1236630645 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also greater than 3. < 1236630648 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How useful. < 1236630660 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"As of 2008, humans are listed as a species of least concern for extinction by the International Union for Conservation of Nature." < 1236630680 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could always try asking wolfram alpha < 1236630692 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the input box is currently just an image of an input box, so it won't be very useful < 1236630701 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ask it for me, since you clearly have access :P < 1236630708 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just imagine the answer, duh < 1236630709 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, an image of a text box? do they have any idea how unportable that is/ < 1236630721 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering the box is completely styled... < 1236630729 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly, even more unportable < 1236630734 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really < 1236630737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how will something like that work in w3m < 1236630744 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how will images work in w3m < 1236630751 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :images work just fine in w3m < 1236630757 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right, framebuffer thingy. < 1236630760 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although admittedly they aren't embedded in the page < 1236630779 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not framebuffer, it spawns an external image viewer program if you follow a link to one or choose the option to view one < 1236630839 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, ais523, do you have any ideas on how to utilize 12gb of ram < 1236630860 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :allocating 6 billion objects? < 1236630872 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually seeing what Vista is like in a reasonable length of time? < 1236630884 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :memory-caching the whole of Wikipedia apart from the images? < 1236630900 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1236630904 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, I really could do that last one < 1236630905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :splitting it into 12000 VMs each of which has a megabyte of memory, each running DOS? < 1236630907 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just <3 < 1236630919 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, it wouldn't even slow anything down much < 1236630932 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, obviously a memory cache would speed it up < 1236630944 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1236630944 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1236630946 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything else on the system < 1236630950 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahh, gotta love functions where the type signature takes up more lines than the definition < 1236630960 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@f-137.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1236630976 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I think they should create a Haskell-like like language which deduces the definition from the type signature, rather than the other way round < 1236630993 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What if it's ambiguous? < 1236631004 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it usually will be < 1236631013 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :find some solution < 1236631019 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it exists < 1236631020 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pick one at random? < 1236631023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the moment I'm wondering about "do the simplest thing that could possibly work", plus monads < 1236631027 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/msg lambdabot @djinn signature < 1236631030 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Djinn :) does that < 1236631042 0 :asie[away]!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Divulgations are apples for your words: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | If there is an asiekierka in the building, please evacuate all intelligence. Thanks! < 1236631044 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Djinn is somewhat crap though < 1236631051 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can't do a lot of things though, yeah < 1236631060 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't handle recursive data types < 1236631067 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is its most vexing limitation < 1236631077 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No lists, for instance. < 1236631080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The idea to overload "bitwise exclusive or" to mean "power" is just stupid. I wonder where they get these ideas. It's as if someone decided to overload "bitwise left shift" to mean "print to file". < 1236631116 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Surely that's not from the IAQ? < 1236631125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, FQA < 1236631136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easy to get those muddled < 1236631137 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thought so :-) < 1236631145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, the IAQ is for C < 1236631160 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a comp.lang.c++ IAQ < 1236631165 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the FQA is trying to be simultaneously useful and sarcastic, whereas the IAQ is just a joke < 1236631275 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could you stop with the topic stuff? And what does this script thing do? < 1236631338 0 :asie[away]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, what < 1236631341 0 :asie[away]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no script < 1236631366 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the script is a lie < 1236631517 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Maximum operating altitude: 10,000 feet " < 1236631519 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— Mac Pro specs. < 1236631535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love datasheets < 1236631565 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Storage temperature: -40° to 116° F (-40° to 47° C) " < 1236631573 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww but I was gonna cryogenically preserve my mac... < 1236631586 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be with me when I wake up in 30,000AD. < 1236631638 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip70-171-213-254.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236631649 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've put a GPU in a freezer a couple of times, to cool it down < 1236631678 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yow, the mac pro is 18.7 kg. < 1236631682 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's like almost as heavy as me. < 1236631702 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you weigh a lot more than that, I hope < 1236631708 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was a joke. < 1236631718 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm ridiculously light, something like 30kg. < 1236631794 0 :atrapado!n=nnn@cm19117.red91-117.mundo-r.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1236631973 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I could make an in-memory markov chain of wikipedia with those 12gb. < 1236631982 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because fungot isn't quite fast enough! < 1236631983 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :estoppel: psykotic every pixel is sacred. just me, or i managed to get nothing? how about making a language? < 1236631990 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :estoppel: what, the whole wikipedia? < 1236631997 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just talk? < 1236631998 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. < 1236631999 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go for it < 1236632005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, how did you end up with 12GB anyway < 1236632018 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Having 12GB" is a boxed future value. < 1236632030 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm justifying my dirty capitalist tendencies, see. < 1236632035 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get yourself 56GB, then install qmail < 1236632040 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1236632044 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without setting resource limits < 1236632057 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mobo only supports up to 32GB I think < 1236632147 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, having your backup drive the same size as your main drive is a bit silly, isn't it. < 1236632166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why, should it be bigger or smaller? < 1236632189 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Smaller, so you can use your drive and have more than one backup at a time. < 1236632197 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, nobody actually uses up all their drive. < 1236632237 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got close on a couple of computers which were basically full anyway < 1236632248 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the one that ran Windows 3.1, I was saving things on floppies to save hard disk space < 1236632257 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, but we're talking 1TB here. < 1236632269 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a ton of crap I don't need on here and only 120GB used < 1236632283 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, find your terabyte's worth of floppies, and use your hard drive to back them up < 1236632290 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no no < 1236632293 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :terabyte tapes < 1236632293 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1236632327 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236632333 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, I don't think having ~1000 floppies is _that_ odd... < 1236632342 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I only had 40 or so < 1236632353 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, a TB of floppies is more like 500000 < 1236632363 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, right < 1236632364 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1000 would be a gb < 1236632366 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid me < 1236632373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :floppies store 2 MB unformatted < 1236632380 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.44 MB with the typical DOS/Windows format < 1236632393 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although Linux floppy disk formats store up to about 1.7 MB, nobody uses them < 1236632400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because nobody uses floppy disks nowadays < 1236632599 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1236632732 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1236632738 0 :asie[away]!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236632771 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except for those random Linux-on-a-floppy distros... < 1236632779 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1236632789 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they're hardly formatted with the Linux-specific formats < 1236632795 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as that would be a chicken-and-egg problem < 1236632810 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making them bootable would probably be tricky, if at all possible < 1236632815 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dd and rawrite can write such disk images just fine. < 1236632834 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the BIOS can load the boot sector quite fine. < 1236632840 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/fine/well/ < 1236632875 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION made a Linux-on-a-floppy distro out of boredom a bit before starting on Brainfuck < 1236632876 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem is that the boot sector isn't separated from the others the way it usually is < 1236632940 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Granted, the boot sector in question is the first 512 bytes of a pre-2.6 Linux kernel... Still, the BIOS can handle the 1.7MB floppies without any trouble. < 1236632966 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boot sectors can just be 'jmp somewherewithmoreroom', no? < 1236632987 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1236632994 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1236633010 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When the boot sector is run, the only things in memory are the boot sector itself and the BIOS. < 1236633021 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the BIOS is only in memory because it's ROM. < 1236633041 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, okay, then, "readrestoffloppydisk, jmp somewherewithmoreroom" < 1236633074 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Generally "read some bytes from the floppy disk, jmp rightafterthebootsector". < 1236633113 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: but rightafterthebootsector is in the "wrong" place on a Linux-formatted disk < 1236633161 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The Linux boot sector, IIRC, starts running the floppy disk manually rather quickly. < 1236633163 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I invented a sorting algorithm a couple of nights ago that I haven't come across before < 1236633167 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but may have been invented independently < 1236633179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it involves insertion sort, but into a deterministic skiplist rather than an array < 1236633197 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's always n log n, but slower than mergesort in terms of number of comparisons despite being the same order < 1236633215 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something like, right after loading the very first track... < 1236633257 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the first track is still in the same place; Linux gets more space out of those floppies by packing the tracks in closer) < 1236633268 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"deterministic skiplist"? < 1236633273 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second track is in a different place < 1236633288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: skiplists normally use some form of randomisation to do their skippy pointers < 1236633299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's possible to do it deterministically with the same computational order < 1236633306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although slower whilst maintaining the same order < 1236633347 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i don't know skiplists, but insertion sort into a balanced tree is n log n afair < 1236633378 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :balanced trees and skiplists are kind-of similar < 1236633382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how can you not know skiplists? < 1236633405 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Easily; I only encountered them a few months ago, I think, but I've known of trees for years < 1236633446 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[ There are no guarantees in any Scheme standard for broken Scheme code < 1236633446 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to "break properly" in any sense of the word. (This is one reason why < 1236633447 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, as a working programmer, do not use Scheme anymore.) ]] < 1236633449 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ what < 1236633451 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't actually have _that_ much CS education < 1236633458 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you must break CORRECTLY! < 1236633468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :estoppel: that sort of programmer goes on to invent langs like OCaml < 1236633479 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just one semester with data structures, 19 years ago or so < 1236633498 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(two semesters with various) < 1236633504 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you program for a living, things like breaking correctly are pretty important < 1236633533 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: you don't need education < 1236633543 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although admittedly skiplists are clever enough to be unlikely to be invented by accident < 1236633548 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: but that doesn't even make sense < 1236633564 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, take microsoft silverlight < 1236633567 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: You have a math education, and informal knowledge of computers. That alone is enough to do quite well in CS... < 1236633569 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a standard trying to regulate handling things that don't meet its specification of a document/program is preposterous < 1236633579 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/computers/computer programming/ < 1236633580 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes when you feed it incorrect stuff, it simply shows a blank page < 1236633593 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no thrown exception, no nothing, no indication of where the error may be. < 1236633593 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all implementation issues < 1236633601 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a standard mandating this would be idiotic < 1236633615 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I also don't know skiplists. < 1236633625 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Granted, I'm a freshman CS student, so... < 1236633640 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :estoppel: it reminds me of people getting annoyed that non-ANSI-compliant implementations of C-like languages were breaking the C standard by defining STDC < 1236633656 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1236633667 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is something very wrong with that logic < 1236633686 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha < 1236633770 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's wrong with that logic? < 1236633785 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : FAQ: You can't, and you usually shouldn't. < 1236633796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: it's wrong on at least two levels < 1236633811 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for explaining exactly what's wrong, I'm tired and don't feel like going through the arguments < 1236633816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe someone else will < 1236634062 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1236634091 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :biarb < 1236634247 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay for documentation < 1236634249 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 files changed, 441 insertions(+), 208 deletions(-) < 1236634384 0 :FireyFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236634414 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rhubarb < 1236634434 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION catches oerjan in a butterfly net -----\XXXXX/ < 1236634455 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have decided that the salient feature of the butterfly net is that it is unexpected < 1236634468 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and here i was being nice and not swatting FireyFly ;´( < 1236634480 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236634482 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't worry, it's a loving careful butterfly net < 1236634484 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1236634499 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, I'm going to try to use acovea to optimize the morse code thing < 1236634510 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.coyotegulch.com/products/acovea/ < 1236634518 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that it will probably have much effect < 1236634521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's acovea? < 1236634559 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i just read http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/838pv/evolving_faster_haskell_programs/ which uses it < 1236634613 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: guess where I found it < 1236634625 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: i already did :D < 1236634880 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is trying to paste between one vim and another vim < 1236634894 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I should open the files in the same vim but what if I don't want to < 1236634898 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :konsole doesn't let me copy it :x < 1236634909 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::set paste? < 1236634924 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and control-shift-c / control-shift-v are usual GUI copy/paste for console programs < 1236635237 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it didn't work properly < 1236635239 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it does < 1236635260 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-027-168.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1236635260 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set paste's a good trick to know in vim, it stops it trying to be too clever when pasting stuff in < 1236635293 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is it possible for me to have vim share stuff between two instances? < 1236635302 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or otherwise work with multiple files, say, across screens < 1236635316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vim generally isn't very good with multiple-process stuff < 1236635332 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, that's what persuaded its main maintainer to switch to using Emacs < 1236635348 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://vim.wikia.com/wiki/Copy_and_paste_between_Vim_instances <-- ack that's ugly < 1236635349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the specific case you mention, though, I wouldn't be surprised if there was a way < 1236635405 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's that clientserver thing, which can then be scripted. But it only works with a $DISPLAY. < 1236635422 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Since it communicates via X messages.) < 1236635478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: the * register seems to be mentioned too < 1236635487 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as shared between vim instances, and presumably everything else < 1236635489 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that work? < 1236635511 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=arvid@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236635527 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ow < 1236635533 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whenever I type "~ it beeps < 1236635537 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is sad < 1236635539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that's interesting < 1236635544 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: anyway, I invented a sorting algorithm a couple of nights ago that I haven't come across before <<< i don't know if this has a name, but, as oerjan hinted, the idea is well-known, basically you can do that with any data structure that is a function from indices to values, and can supply you with predecessors and inserting-in-the-middle both in O(log n) time. < 1236635545 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why "~ in particular? what's that meant to do? < 1236635551 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did that come through? < 1236635561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yep, i was trying to work out what the advantages and disadvantages were < 1236635577 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the advantage, I think, is that you get good computational orders for almost all common operations < 1236635592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :insert, insert-sorted, delete, append, nth are all O(log n) < 1236635594 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i met skiplists in high school, and considered them trivial, but didn't hear their name; have heard about them many times since, and never bothered to check how they work, but now that you said something about it being weird oerjan didn't know it < 1236635597 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i had to check them out < 1236635598 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iterate is O(n) < 1236635609 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, as already mentioned, i did know them < 1236635630 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my vim doesn't have x11, wtf < 1236635633 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like balanced skiplists, even if they're slower < 1236635640 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: well, obviously, you need gvim < 1236635648 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although IMO, gvim's an oxymoron waiting to happen < 1236635653 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it misses the main point behind vim < 1236635674 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data structures tend to be a bit too easy to visualize to be all that stimulating < 1236635682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: solved Nim yet, by the way? < 1236635691 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1236635696 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't want gvim, I want a terminal < 1236635702 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can manage it for yourself, and I see no reason why you shouldn't, and you spot the pattern, prepared to be stunned < 1236635706 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: an X11 terminal? < 1236635715 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want konsole < 1236635717 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1236635722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to visualise a vim specifically designed for xterm/konsole/whatever < 1236635722 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I want vim with +X11 < 1236635725 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which debian apparently doesn't have < 1236635734 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone else? < 1236635738 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1236635739 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1236635753 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% apt-get source vim < 1236635769 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sudo apt-get build-dep vim < 1236635780 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that step will save you a lot of trouble < 1236635785 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and build-essential if you don't have it already < 1236635789 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vim-gtk is very +X11. < 1236635799 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The Debian package with that name, that is.) < 1236635953 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might of course be more than you need; it does enable +perl, +python, +ruby and +tcl while it's at it. < 1236635954 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sadly, no. i did fix the error, but i didn't really have time to look into it today, i dedicated this day for doing absolutely nothing, because i'm a bit concerned about my mental health because of all this exam flood :P < 1236635971 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that i'm having any issues really, i just feel like i should < 1236635975 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a great thing to dedicate a day for < 1236635979 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236635981 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, no need < 1236635982 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: gvim? < 1236635989 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, what you said < 1236635991 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a separate package on occasion < 1236635998 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that I have gvim installed, < 1236636003 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can just run vim and get console but +X!! < 1236636004 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*X11 < 1236636010 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amazing < 1236636017 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1236636061 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's called vim-gtk on Debian, but there's a "gvim" virtual-package for it, implemented by the various GUIfied versions of vim; vim-lesstif, vim-gtk, vim-gnome. < 1236636084 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see < 1236636087 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian go to a lot of trouble to make the package manager Do The Right Thing < 1236636093 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to use gvim because < 1236636094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though the result normally ends up rather confusing < 1236636104 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll get used to the gui < 1236636112 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is (1) slower and (2) not going to work over ssh < 1236636128 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1236636135 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I use non-GUI vim more often than GUI vim < 1236636141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :working over ssh is vi's killer feature, really < 1236636143 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer the GUI myself < 1236636151 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure why, though < 1236636170 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although a vi feature not a vim feature, most computers have neither vim nor emacs installed, but most ssh-intoable computers have vi < 1236636171 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have all the menus and scrollbars and whatnot disabled, apart from the tab bar < 1236636179 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but all GUI-enabled Vim binaries can run in a terminal. If you install vim-gtk (for example) you just get gvim and vim symlinks into the vim.gtk binary. < 1236636211 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the computers I generally want to ssh into all have vim < 1236636228 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does normish have vim? < 1236636230 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes, I noticed that above :u < 1236636251 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, it would be cool if I could get vim to open files remotely like kate < 1236636262 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and I mentioned vim-gtk before Deewiant, yet you're all "what you said". < 1236636283 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I wasn't paying attention but rather busy compiling vim < 1236636286 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before I realized I didn't need to < 1236636288 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1236636302 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in many circumstances (slow connection!!) editing remotely is a bad idea < 1236636307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm.. apparently normish does have vim < 1236636320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emacs has TRAMP to open files remotely, I'm not sure if there's a vi equivalent < 1236636333 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey look < 1236636335 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://ubuntu-tutorials.com/2007/08/31/vim-tip-of-the-week-august-31-2007-remote-editing/ < 1236636336 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do it < 1236636338 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's ridiculous < 1236636339 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1236636340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the real reason not to edit remotely is because estoppel tends to reboot the system you're editing on at the time < 1236636492 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish there was a cross-app way to do that :/ < 1236636503 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's FUSE, kioslaves, and vim has its own thing < 1236636511 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the fuck is a standard when you need it < 1236636515 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emacs has its own thing too < 1236636528 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KDE has a standard way of its own, that's standard among KDE apps < 1236636531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how Kate manages it < 1236636540 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's kioslaves < 1236636637 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% vim scp://xemocne@lyokoscan.net/send_slr < 1236636639 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, it works < 1236636641 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::u < 1236636643 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also gnomevfs for that. < 1236636650 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All Gnome apps do it with it. < 1236636669 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there like a book or something i could read so i'd understand even half of what you guys talk about? < 1236636685 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: possibly < 1236636696 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :playing around with a Linux-based or UNIX-based system should teach it to you pretty quickly < 1236636698 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be cool if I could just use standard unix commands remotely < 1236636709 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: !ssh < 1236636713 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point < 1236636714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ! newline ssh < 1236636718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is it without the newline < 1236636722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can never remember < 1236636724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's the vim way < 1236636728 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ftp and such < 1236636732 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why reimplement everything your shell can already do? < 1236636735 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUSE is a nice hack but has some problems such as < 1236636740 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't mean from vim < 1236636745 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well ubuntu taught me nothing at least < 1236636747 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Vim's version is actually rather based on external commands; it handles dav with cadaver, ftp with ftp, http with "curl -o"/"wget -q -O"/"fetch -o", scp with "scp -q" and so on. < 1236636753 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as no programs expecting a very slow filesystem < 1236636760 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well, it's designed to not have to use the console < 1236636768 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i used the console all the time < 1236636772 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: great, that's just what I want. what I don't want is having to copy temporary files manually < 1236636775 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how did you not come across things like vi < 1236636781 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well i did < 1236636787 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've used nano up to now :u < 1236636792 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the 30% i do understand :P < 1236636792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why don't you understand half of what we talk about? < 1236636799 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what in particular? < 1236636804 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:12 ais523: why reimplement everything your shell can already do? < 1236636805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably a one-sentence explanation would be enough < 1236636808 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's vim's business < 1236636814 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well dunno, i wasn't being very exact. < 1236636816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :estoppel: what, reimplementing things? < 1236636819 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep. < 1236636823 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vim isn't very vi < 1236636825 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought its whole point was to defer to pre-existing programs, or is that vi? < 1236636826 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.wana.at/vimshell/ < 1236636828 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa < 1236636833 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Point. < 1236636854 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like ed, am I the only one? < 1236636857 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vimshell is a patch to Vim sources, though. < 1236636861 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I actually use ed sometimes. < 1236636862 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :estoppel: presumably vi syntax highlighting would work by piping the program through an external syntax highlighter, then before save piping it through something to strip out the ansi colour code? < 1236636864 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And like it. < 1236636872 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :estoppel: I use sed for editing on occasion < 1236636874 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I don't need that unless I want to edit and shell at the same time < 1236636877 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...yo dawg < 1236636884 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've done pretty much "shell in a vim window" with vim and the perl-scripting add-on, to run MATLAB/Octave in a vim window so I don't need MATLAB's horrible GUI. < 1236636885 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The correct way is to realise that buffer display does not have to be what you edit < 1236636896 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have two layers: the screen display, and the buffer display, and a function mapping between the two < 1236636900 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way, can anyone here think of a way to combine yo dawg with I herd you liek mudkips? < 1236636904 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they seem to work perfectly together < 1236636905 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus, the screen display is piped through a highliter, but the buffer display is the file < 1236636915 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yo dawg, I herd you liek mudkips so... < 1236636923 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just not sure how to finish the sentence < 1236636924 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "Yo dawg, I herd u liek mudkips, so I put a mudkip in your mudkip so you can breed while you... update your pokedex." < 1236636932 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excuse the fail. < 1236636932 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I hereby submit "complete that sentence" as an Enigma puzzle < 1236636937 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: <3 < 1236636942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: you need to submit an answer too < 1236636942 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hm i have a vague impression i've seen something like that on reddit < 1236636947 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, the correct answer < 1236636959 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Or on xkcd? http://xkcd.com/550/ < 1236636974 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that xkcd sucks < 1236636977 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not funny < 1236636987 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/that //;s/$/ most of the time/ < 1236636999 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no something closer to what ais523 said < 1236637005 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.flickr.com/photos/brownpau/2459879511/ < 1236637027 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, here we go < 1236637029 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/funny/comments/7qyc6/a_brilliantly_subtle_yo_dawg/c075d8z < 1236637040 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate the one in the title of that submission < 1236637045 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one in the comments had no text < 1236637047 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was deliciously zen < 1236637100 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i42.tinypic.com/29w1h1e.jpg < 1236637150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't realise that yo dawg and I accidentally the whole internet were current at the same time < 1236637164 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ok but i hadn't seen that one < 1236637182 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's i accidentally the noun < 1236637183 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the internet < 1236637189 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't the accidentally thing from like the 60's < 1236637204 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.steike.com/code/useless/zip-file-quine/' < 1236637232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :estoppel: ah, pity < 1236637238 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole internet seems to fit it pretty well < 1236637239 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the internet no longer a noun! film at 11 < 1236637334 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay i didn't like the new xkcd, but probably you've just brainwashed me < 1236637347 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION still thinks steike.com is funny as "steike" means something like "darn" in his dialect < 1236637419 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn.com isn't funny < 1236637426 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swiftly removes oklopol's brain and drops it in the laundry < 1236637441 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor hitto.com < 1236637461 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION switfly retrieves oklopol's brain and puts it in a museum < 1236637474 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: hitto is the finnish equivalent? < 1236637518 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: s/the/a/ < 1236637523 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like it, anyway < 1236637554 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think 'hemmetti' would be closer but there's no hemmetti.com < 1236637612 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hell.no < 1236637726 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats ais523's switfly -----### < 1236637779 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8mq_96Entks < 1236637900 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has there already been a language where the current instruction set depends on the previous instructions executed (or possibly listed in the source code) up to that point? < 1236637926 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made one of thos < 1236637926 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1236637933 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not very interesting < 1236637935 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a trivial cypher < 1236637938 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: malbolge...? < 1236637957 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't the instruction set always the same? < 1236637957 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION picks up an e from the floor < 1236638033 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for malbolge) < 1236638043 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: apply now and you can be an oklopole! < 1236638055 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: the instruction executed is cyphered < 1236638076 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right but theset of available instuctions remains constant < 1236638080 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait you have no brain at the moment < 1236638083 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the set < 1236638141 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :braaaaains < 1236638148 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION paints the e pink and drops it off at the museum beside oklopol's brain < 1236638160 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the museum of what exactly? < 1236638174 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you can try to TAKE OVER THE WORLD < 1236638176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: brilliant brains that need preserving but were somehow dropped in the laundry < 1236638178 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I know, it's just a matter of figuring out the encoding, but you could always execute each instruction at each set.. right? < 1236638226 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if there were multiple sets of instructions, perhaps not all complete, that were chosen deterministically based somehow on the past.. it might be kinda interesting < 1236638229 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is that a big museum? < 1236638246 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not < 1236638262 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if done properly the code would be easy to read but hard to write < 1236638285 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236638287 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@a91-153-121-248.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1236638348 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sneaks the pink e and the brain out of the museum and return them to oklopol  < 1236638365 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*returns < 1236638420 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oklopole < 1236638436 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hangs up a lampshade for better light /====\ < 1236638470 0 :oklopole!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1236638479 0 :oklopole!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few days ago < 1236638480 0 :oklopole!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i realized < 1236638484 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calamari: and perhaps also depending on data < 1236638491 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that I think on it more, it'd have to be based on execution, because otherwise you could write macros < 1236638495 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that your space key is broken < 1236638498 0 :oklopole!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to study gene biology, physics and psychology < 1236638508 0 :oklopole!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i mad? < 1236638509 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopole + psychology? < 1236638514 0 :oklopole!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes! :D < 1236638517 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you aren't mad, but you'll drive other people mad that way < 1236638522 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or sane, if you so prefer, but mad's more fun < 1236638529 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopole: yes < 1236638607 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopology < 1236638642 0 :oklopole!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i probably wouldn't enjoy actually studying psychology at uni, it seems somewhat trivial, but i would love to know what exactly psychology knows < 1236638647 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's oklopological! < 1236638655 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psychology is um... mostly bullshit. < 1236638658 0 :oklopole!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the other two are just actually interesting < 1236638679 0 :oklopole!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :estoppel: yeah, i doubt it is, although i agree. < 1236638684 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol wat < 1236638692 0 :oklopole!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that made no sense? < 1236638699 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopole: me too < 1236638705 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopole: if you find a good textbook, tell me! < 1236638708 0 :oklopole!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: you too what? < 1236638715 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i too would like to know psychology < 1236638718 0 :oklopole!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1236638740 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately i think the way to do that is to subscribe to their journals and read their shitty papers, i certainly don't want to do that < 1236638753 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a nice up-to-date textbook would be nice < 1236638766 0 :oklopole!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a friend of mine started studying psychology now that he's doing his phd and doesn't have much cs courses, got me a bit interested too < 1236638825 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://qoid.us/screenshots/morse.png <-- why does gvim have such a god-awful default coor scheme < 1236638827 0 :oklopole!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah raeding papers probably wouldn't be worth it, especially as i'm pretty sure psychology at least gets a lot of bullshit, even though i doubt the actual subject is characterized by it. < 1236638833 0 :oklopole!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*reading < 1236638849 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: that's for a black background < 1236638858 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to :set background=white or something < 1236638859 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :estoppel: it's gvim < 1236638860 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should know < 1236638861 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get it looking ok < 1236638864 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't < 1236638907 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's just my eyes < 1236638919 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that is awful < 1236638921 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set the bg right < 1236638924 0 :oklopole!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like *whole subject < 1236638926 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even bg=light had some too-bright colors imo < 1236638933 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I changed < 1236638944 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ other reason not to use remote vim < 1236639526 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At some point I tried to use gvim because it can do more colours; then I just downloaded inkpot.vim to utilize the rxvt-unicode 88-color mode (and the screen/xterm 256-color mode) properly. < 1236639561 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess many people might not like those colours either, but I'm odd like that; they look something like http://zem.fi/~fis/termcolors.png < 1236640261 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :No route to host < 1236640472 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-106-163.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1236641124 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523__ < 1236641137 0 :ais523__!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523 < 1236641154 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION watches the ais523 time anomaly < 1236641415 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does it mean to have a gigabit ethernet controller with a 10/100 megabit physical layer device? < 1236641445 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :black magic. < 1236641478 0 :Robdgreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's sorcery afoot < 1236641482 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, doesn't that mean that it can still only transfer at most 100 Mbit/s through the port? < 1236641497 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In which case what's the point of having a gigabit controller? < 1236641503 0 :Robdgreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I say bottle, you say neck! Bottle! < 1236641512 0 :Robdgreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>.> < 1236641533 0 :Robdgreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, it's getting close to time for me to gtfo < 1236641599 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like bad timing < 1236641620 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you just started talking < 1236641776 0 :kerlobot!n=kerlobot@c-98-209-136-197.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236641788 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SL < 1236641800 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GP < 1236641805 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$eval (SL) < 1236641818 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If at first you don't succeed... < 1236641820 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%eval (SL) < 1236641821 0 :kerlobot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(SL) < 1236641887 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%eval (+ 2 2) < 1236641887 0 :kerlobot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(+ 2 2) < 1236641895 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so it isn't running Lisp < 1236641898 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%eval Hello, world! < 1236641899 0 :kerlobot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Syntax error < 1236641900 0 :Robdgreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: I meant with regards to work < 1236641914 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recommend Church numerals, or whatever you call those things these days. < 1236641939 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :House of Worship numerals? < 1236641956 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%show < 1236641971 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thereby showing that I don't remember how this thing works. < 1236641980 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Abandonando" < 1236642003 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%what < 1236642004 0 :kerlobot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :input < 1236642007 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great. < 1236642011 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%eval (lambda (lambda lambda) (lambda lambda)) (lambda lambda lambda) < 1236642012 0 :kerlobot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Syntax error < 1236642024 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need more parentheses. < 1236642032 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236642039 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%eval ((lambda (lambda lambda) (lambda lambda)) (lambda lambda lambda)) < 1236642039 0 :kerlobot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((lambda (lambda lambda) (lambda lambda)) (lambda lambda lambda)) < 1236642053 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%eval ((lambda (lambda) (lambda lambda)) (lambda (lambda) (lambda lambda))) < 1236642053 0 :kerlobot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((lambda (lambda) (lambda lambda)) (lambda (lambda) (lambda lambda))) < 1236642057 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. < 1236642067 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%eval ((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) < 1236642068 0 :kerlobot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((lambda (x) (x x)) (lambda (x) (x x))) < 1236642075 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's not called lambda. < 1236642077 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlobot doesn't seem to evaluate anything < 1236642081 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just spout it back < 1236642081 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's called l. < 1236642089 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a lazy evalbot < 1236642096 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%eval ((l (x) (x x)) (l (y) (y y))) < 1236642097 0 :kerlobot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((IT IS LOOP SORRY) (l (y) (y y))) < 1236642101 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%eval ((l (l) (l l)) (l (l) (l l))) < 1236642101 0 :kerlobot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((IT IS LOOP SORRY) (l (l) (l l))) < 1236642120 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, that reminds me of Mathematica error messages < 1236642133 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it? < 1236642133 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they just get embedded into the expression instead of a result and it keeps on evaluating < 1236642136 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1236642163 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%temp (l (2) (l (f x) (f (f x)))) < 1236642172 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%reset < 1236642177 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%temp ((l (2) (l (f x) (f (f x)))) input) < 1236642180 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%eval 2 < 1236642181 0 :kerlobot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[l (f x) (f (f x))] < 1236642195 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%eval (2 2 2) < 1236642195 0 :kerlobot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[l (f x) (f (f x))] < 1236642204 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION blinks < 1236642214 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%reset < 1236642222 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2 2) should be 4 in Church numerals < 1236642227 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%eval (2 2) < 1236642228 0 :kerlobot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2 2) < 1236642258 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%reset < 1236642260 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%temp ((l (2) input) (l (f x) (f (f x)))) < 1236642264 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%eval 2 < 1236642264 0 :kerlobot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[l (f x) (f (f x))] < 1236642270 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%eval (2 2 2) < 1236642271 0 :kerlobot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :([l (f x) (f (f x))] ((l (f x) (f (f x))) (l ((l (f x) (f (f x))) x) ((l (f x) (f (f x))) ((l (f x) (f (f x))) x))))) < 1236642275 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. < 1236642282 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is that? < 1236642296 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Want me to curry it? < 1236642299 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%reset < 1236642318 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%temp ((l (2) input) (l (f) (l (x) (f (f x))))) < 1236642324 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%eval 2 < 1236642324 0 :kerlobot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[l (f) (l (x) (f (f x)))] < 1236642332 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%eval ((2 f) x) < 1236642333 0 :kerlobot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(f (f x)) < 1236642336 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%eval (((2 2) f) x) < 1236642337 0 :kerlobot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((l (((l (f) (l (f) (f (f f)))) f)) (((l (f) (l (f) (f (f f)))) f) (((l (f) (l (f) (f (f f)))) f) ((l (f) (l (f) (f (f f)))) f)))) x) < 1236642341 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaa. < 1236642353 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%eval (((2 2) F) X) < 1236642354 0 :kerlobot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((X (X X)) ((((l (f) (l (X) (f (f X)))) X) X) (((l (f) (l (X) (f (f X)))) X) X))) < 1236642360 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Impressive, no? < 1236642374 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, what the heck is it doing? < 1236642401 0 :kerlobot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236642512 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION attempts to run it on Normish, but just gets a bunch of "that file doesn't exist" < 1236642549 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-bash: ./sillylisp: No such file or directory < 1236642563 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing is, though, ./sillylisp exists. < 1236642569 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That means it's wrong. < 1236642571 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The executable, that is. < 1236642574 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Run it under 32-bit emulation. < 1236642586 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I do that? < 1236642595 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh. < 1236642599 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it's chmodded executable < 1236642605 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The utility is called... < 1236642612 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does "file ./sillylisp" do? < 1236642615 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: linux32. < 1236642619 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, it is 64 bit v s 32 bit < 1236642624 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know because I've had the 100% same problem on a slicehost < 1236642631 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sillylisp: ELF 32-bit LSB executable, Intel 80386, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.8, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), not stripped < 1236642634 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see? < 1236642636 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :install linux32 < 1236642637 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you trying to port binaries between linux systems anyway? < 1236642638 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So yeah, that's the problem, I guess. < 1236642640 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then "linux32 ./sillylisp" < 1236642647 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because I can't compile it on the target machine. < 1236642650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1236642656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about crosscompiling? < 1236642664 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know how to do that. < 1236642691 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crosscompilation is great fun, although not everything's set up to support it < 1236642694 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. "linux32: ./sillylisp: No such file or directory" < 1236642696 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that reminds me, I must finish gcc-bf some time < 1236642882 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (a CPlusPlusProgrammer has all the fields of a Programmer, plus a couple of new, orthogonal members, such as headAgainstTheWallBangingFrequency). < 1236643154 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Here's a proposal for the next C++ standard: let's define two keywords, __0 and __1. With a token sequence composed of these two keywords, we can express anything (actually, one keyword is enough, but that's just too verbose). < 1236643268 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :FireFly < 1236643290 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There, this should be enough to confuse the stupid spam bots, so I'll only get mail from the intelligent spam bots." <- very ais523 < 1236643305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was that me who wrote that, or someone else/ < 1236643314 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I admit I could have writen that, but I don't remember writing that, it's my attitude < 1236643315 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://yosefk.com/mail.html < 1236643496 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"..." < 1236643651 0 :kerlobot!n=kerlobot@c-98-209-136-197.hsd1.mi.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236643663 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION flicks kerlobot's nose < 1236643667 0 :kerlobot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236643834 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236643865 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236643887 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : once in a blue moon = 1.16699016 × 10-8 hertz < 1236643895 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol wut < 1236643929 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I suppose you can calculate it... < 1236643940 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that there's an official definition of blue moon < 1236643945 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, everyone loves nanohertz < 1236643948 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or ought to < 1236644003 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hertz is a measure of time ... ? < 1236644007 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there's a product called Nanohertz, or a trademark on it. < 1236644018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :estoppel: frequenct < 1236644020 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*frequency < 1236644029 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, so shouldn't < 1236644031 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :once in a blue moon < 1236644033 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that measures the rate at which blue moons happen < 1236644033 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :be a measure of time < 1236644036 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh < 1236644050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 / (once in a blue moon) would be a measure of time < 1236644054 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would be the interval between blue moons < 1236644061 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blue moons happen once per year iirc < 1236644080 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, apparently not < 1236644085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION restarts firefox < 1236644088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just upgraded it < 1236644095 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it acts weirdly between upgrades and restarts < 1236644106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I was actually getting assertion failures, which is unusual < 1236644147 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 / once in a blue moon = 2.71542689 years < 1236644344 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so pretty close to e years < 1236644359 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1236644495 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1236644529 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"So, make sure you catch all possible exceptions in your C-callable C++ functions. By the way, C++ exceptions can be of any built-in or user-defined type, and you can't catch an arbitrary exception and check what kind of exception it is at run time, and operator new can throw exceptions. Enjoy." < 1236645031 0 :Jophish!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236645677 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236645841 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip70-171-213-254.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236646179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236646537 0 :estoppel!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1236649588 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1236650148 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1236650278 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip70-171-213-254.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236650785 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Esoteric quotation marks: The beginning of a quote is marked by quotation marks followed by a space. The end of a quote is marked by a space followed by the same number of quotation marks. It is not legal to use more than that many quotation marks in a row within the quote. < 1236650811 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, if you want to quote the string {"""""""""}, you have to say """""""""" """"""""" """""""""", not " """"""""" ". < 1236650897 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heavily nested quotes are easy: """"""" """""" """"" """" """ "" " foo " "" """ """" """"" """""" """"""" < 1236652095 0 :Dewio!n=dewi@124-171-184-160.dyn.iinet.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1236652096 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236652100 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1236652112 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so git looks pretty cool < 1236652138 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1236652152 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip70-171-213-254.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236652556 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1236652895 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236653140 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-126-187.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236653955 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236659031 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1236660303 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236660434 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip70-171-213-254.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236662411 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236662641 0 :psygnisfive!n=psygnisf@c-71-57-164-119.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236662689 0 :question!n=question@190.87.24.51 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236662712 0 :question!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1236662715 0 :question!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a question < 1236662730 0 :question!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh shit hahaha this one is for esoteric programming < 1236662731 0 :question!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1236662737 0 :question!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong room < 1236662737 0 :question!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1236662740 0 :question!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1236662798 0 :Robdgreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf was that < 1236663168 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236663600 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CALAMARI DAMACY < 1236663883 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236663893 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@cpc2-stkn13-2-0-cust73.11-2.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1236670028 0 :asiekierk!i=africalo@078088180066.elb.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1236670961 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1236670964 0 :asiekierk!i=africalo@078088180066.elb.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1236671999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1236672000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1236672370 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236677027 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1236677029 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-39-96.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236679032 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Client Excited" < 1236679203 0 :DH__!n=DHeadsho@host-134-225-165-219.readingconnect.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236680929 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O < 1236680936 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still working on AsieCrypt for no reason < 1236680952 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I made it make colors way-too-scrambled < 1236682312 0 :tombom!i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1236683092 0 :jix!n=jix@paed-gw.schule.bremen.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1236683651 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Computer has gone to sleep" < 1236684799 0 :DH__!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1236684810 0 :DH__!n=DHeadsho@host-134-225-165-219.readingconnect.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236685067 0 :jix!n=jix@paed-gw.schule.bremen.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1236687979 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"..." < 1236689591 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-106-163.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1236690443 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"..." < 1236692103 0 :neldoreth!n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth JOIN :#esoteric < 1236692248 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi there, i got a little question to befunge: i want just to print some letters right after each other, but when i have a second line in code i end up in an endless loop http://pastebin.com/m8052f85 - can someone give me a hint what i am missing < 1236693201 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-106-163.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1236694062 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh... the code flow wraps around, so at the end of line 1 it wraps to start of line 1. You need to use explicit v, ^, <, > instructions to direct your instruction pointer to the second line if you want it to go there. < 1236694101 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though for character-printing the canonical way is to just do something like 055+"!dlrow ,elloH">:#,_@ < 1236694262 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for responding fizzie - i think i understand it now < 1236694464 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i run with ^<>v through the code, right? < 1236694537 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Well, I mean, you stick one of those whenever you want to turn somewhere. < 1236694588 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funny :D < 1236694641 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or want to make sure you are going somewhere. The more rectangular way of writing the print loop -- >:#,_ -- is: < 1236694647 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...>:v < 1236694647 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ^,_@ < 1236694718 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to see an inspirational piece of Befunge, our local irc-bot, fungot, is written in it: http://zem.fi/~fis/fungot.b98.txt < 1236694719 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: also, use firefox 3 or a webkit nightly.... < 1236694738 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: It's a *plain text* page! Why would you need Firefox 3 for it? < 1236694738 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: hmm. 2 alt keys wouldnt work in an interpreter < 1236694763 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O nice - so you really can write something useful with it :> < 1236694772 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some values of useful, sure. < 1236694797 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-105-179.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236694818 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1236694821 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i mean you are quite limited with this language like opening a file or something like that < 1236694851 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes, that's why fungot is written in Funge-98, which adds a whole lot of extensions. < 1236694851 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: two ways 2 fix, but there is no new-line in morse code ( the way databases do it), but... < 1236694870 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like the FILE fingerprint for file operations, or SOCK for internetsy stuff. < 1236694904 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, I didn't know databases do it in morse code. < 1236694917 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah i will check this out - cause i have to write a "creative" program with an esoteric language like befunge, brainfuck or whitespace and i have no idea what to write < 1236694941 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Have to"? Is it some sort of an assignment or what? < 1236695007 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236695100 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where do they have esolang-related assignments? < 1236695353 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236695357 0 :neldoreth!n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth JOIN :#esoteric < 1236695453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude < 1236695456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esolang assignments? < 1236695456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hot < 1236695526 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, just "whatever we like", but it should creative and i have no idea what i should write :D < 1236695631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is this? < 1236695658 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a university in austria < 1236695665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1236695700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely go for funge-98 if you have to use befunge to do something < 1236695778 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but i am not sure if we are allowed to use it, cause they said that we can use befunge, brainfuck, intercal or whitespace - but with funge98 you can do much more < 1236695798 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They seem to be classicists, with that sort of language selection. < 1236695808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: befunge-98 classes as befunge < 1236695842 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not the fairness: I just have to hide tiny esolang-related things in otherwise-sensible programs; never has there been yet a "do something with befunge" course assignment. < 1236695862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1236695865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The world is cruel. < 1236695935 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ah ok, i ve just read that its an generalization of befunge - but that sounds good, so i guess i will check it out < 1236695945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: kind of < 1236695960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funge-98 defines unefunge-98, befunge-98 and trifunge-98 < 1236695962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1, 2 and 3D) < 1236695971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge98 is just an extension of befunge93 < 1236695980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "befunge" refers to both < 1236695993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"unefunge" and "trifunge" always refer to -98, since there's no other versions < 1236696007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... well ... maybe -97 :-D < 1236696231 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1236696268 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah i find this language funny :D < 1236696298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :be glad you picked befunge < 1236696307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you can use -98, and it's also pretty easy :P < 1236696317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck and whitespace are about equal < 1236696329 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i think they are too hard to read < 1236696331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but intercal inputs as "ONE FIVE TWO" for 152 and outputs as roman numerals :-D < 1236696337 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please! :p < 1236696345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and it has no conventional arithmetic whatsoever. you have to implement it yourself. < 1236696355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the opposite of GOTO. (COME FROM). < 1236696360 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya :D < 1236696370 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it looks more enterprisey than some silly befunge. < 1236696379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1236696630 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a specific interpreter you can recommand me ? < 1236696643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CCBI or cfunge are the only compliant befunge-98 interpreters. < 1236696655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the first was released in 2007. Turns out it's hard to get it right. < 1236696678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: Use cfunge if you want ridiculous amounts of speed for whatever reason, unless you're on windows, because AnMaster refuses to support windows. < 1236696686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you are on windows, try CCBI. < 1236696692 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am on linux < 1236696698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1236696706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CCBI has a linux binary, though. That might be easier. < 1236696707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://users.tkk.fi/~mniemenm/files/befunge/interpreters/ccbi/ccbi_linux.zip < 1236696727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to compile CCBI: http://iki.fi/matti.niemenmaa/befunge/ccbi.html < 1236696729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or cfunge: http://kuonet.org/~anmaster/cfunge/ < 1236696731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1236696751 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1236696771 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you're forgetting RC/Funge-98 < 1236696777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes < 1236696783 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah i only need one :D < 1236696784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236696800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: if you type like this,,,,,,ehehehehhe.....try rc/funge98....http://rcfunge98.com/ < 1236696801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, one thing: ccbi has a debugger, but it is slower. cfunge is way faster and only has a basic trace < 1236696812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ah, that's a good reason to use ccbi as a newbie then < 1236696821 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"way faster" < 1236696821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(neldoreth: but don't try and compile it, it's hell to compile the D source) < 1236696829 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: LDC should compile it < 1236696838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well it all depends on what you are using it for. fungot running a slow underload interpreter? cfunge or in the future jitfunge < 1236696838 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: when first i was a < 1236696838 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should actually be pretty easy due to that, these days < 1236696841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no matter what you say, getting a D environment is a pain < 1236696842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1236696843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :debugging a script: ccbi < 1236696847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a program* < 1236696849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: neldoreth. < 1236696852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's writing a befunge program. for school. < 1236696859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he hasn't used the language before. < 1236696863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though one thing: ccbi's debugger is quite a pain < 1236696868 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: hg clone , run cmake and you have a D environment < 1236696869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are used to something nice like gdb < 1236696872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so speed is probably not an issue, and a debugger is useful < 1236696874 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: When first you were a... what? < 1236696874 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: some semantics guy who is doing the compilation." hahahah puns r fun. < 1236696876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, CCBI has more crazy fingerprints for that < 1236696884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: tango? < 1236696886 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yep < 1236696895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. < 1236696897 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was surprised at how easily I got it to work, actually :-) < 1236696899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might just try that. < 1236696902 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it should build CCBI now < 1236696906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shoot me a link? < 1236696907 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They fixed the bugs after I tried it :-) < 1236696913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, did you know there is a "break on instruction" in ccbi? However it only works if you enter the number representing the ASCII code point, not the letter... < 1236696914 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: http://www.dsource.org/projects/ldc/ < 1236696921 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The bugs that broke CCBI, that is < 1236696926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh only one break point too < 1236696928 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't tried it for a while, though, it could be it still doesn't work < 1236696928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so? < 1236696931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's better than no debugger < 1236696943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and since speed is an issue, ccbi is probably the better choice for a newbie < 1236696945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*isn't < 1236696956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. cfunge *does* include a .gdbinit file though < 1236696957 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speed isn't an issue anyway unless you run the game of life or optimize for Mycology < 1236696964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, or run fungot < 1236696964 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i can let you do it? < 1236696965 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe for fungot, I haven't tried that < 1236696966 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: spineless tagless g-machine, a virtual machine for an oisc processor, but using the sxml fnord you see it, if it can't! it doesn't complain about fnord < 1236696978 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: have you tried it on CCBI? < 1236696986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, iirc fizzie did. < 1236696995 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Was it unbearably slow? < 1236697010 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just 0.1 instead of 0.05 seconds response time? :-P < 1236697010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I remember it < 1236697012 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember anymore. I've done it on RC/Funge though; how do those two speed-compare? < 1236697017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was indistinguishably fast < 1236697020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since IRC lag is the main factor. < 1236697025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(apart from on e.g. complex ^ul) < 1236697048 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For fungot speed mostly matters if you care about the speed of the brainfuck/underload interps. < 1236697048 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: last time i checked < 1236697049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, he said he could let the bf interpreter run about 4 times as many cycles before "out of time" under cfunge iirc.. < 1236697049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* LLVM Test Suite (67M) < 1236697050 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I had to guess I'd say RC/Funge-98 is somewhere between CCBI and cfunge < 1236697051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gawps < 1236697057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that might have been for rc/funge < 1236697058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1236697068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: rc/funge is unoptimized, I think < 1236697073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I do remember he said he increased the limits under cfunge < 1236697073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's probably the slowest < 1236697076 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Well, so is CCBI < 1236697082 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the most part, anyway < 1236697088 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compared to cfunge ;-P < 1236697089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1236697098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D is a lil slower than C too. < 1236697101 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then, everything is unoptimized compared to cfunge < 1236697112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, no, jitfunge is more optimised < 1236697114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :llvm is unoptimized compared to that dungpile. < 1236697120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, jitfunge doesn't optimize. < 1236697121 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take issue with people saying "language A is slower than language B" < 1236697128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: yes, yes, I know < 1236697134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :show me a D as fast as C < 1236697146 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can show you D programs as fast as C programs ;-) < 1236697153 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Do they do the same thing? < 1236697156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D minus D features is basically weirdo C. < 1236697163 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Amazingly enough they do < 1236697169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well depending on what you mean, nor does cfunge. jitfunge could potentially. Just in cfunge I tried to write all the C code fast. But I don't try to constant fold code. Like jitfunge does < 1236697178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'd say jitfunge is more optimising < 1236697187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Green bunnies. < 1236697193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Happy, bunnies! < 1236697195 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jitfunge is broken, though; that's a disadvantage. < 1236697202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, llvm's configure has --enable-optimized < 1236697205 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If something doesn't work it doesn't count < 1236697209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes it isn't finished yet < 1236697214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENABLE OPTIMIZED! < 1236697216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge was broken in the beginning too < 1236697225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway currently cfunge is in a code clean up phase < 1236697238 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then, I suppose AnMaster would argue CCBI is broken since FILE's R doesn't reflect on EOF currently :-P < 1236697264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, since you mention that. Fixed mycology for it? < 1236697264 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: What're you building LLVM for, binaries too simple for you? < 1236697270 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nope, not even locally < 1236697275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1236697280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: macports only has 2.4 < 1236697286 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Feel free to do it yourself < 1236697292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 3rd-party binaries for CLI software make me itchy < 1236697294 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Ah, right, mac. < 1236697304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should start a Scheme channel that, whenever someone says "This program doesn't work", and it doesn't meet the standard, we'll reply "Mu. Show us a program." < 1236697311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(re Deewiant: But then, I suppose AnMaster would argue CCBI is broken since FILE's R doesn't reflect on EOF currently :-P) < 1236697342 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, binaries from seemingly trustworthy 3rd parties are fine < 1236697343 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there somewhere in addition to the spec simple examples for the file i/o usage < 1236697352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well, it wouldn't be the official version. What if every funge developer then decided to fork mycology so their interpreter passed. Wait forget that. Changing the interpreter would be easier than changing mycology... < 1236697353 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You never know if your compiler has been taken, anyway < 1236697366 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ... I meant that you'd send me a patch < 1236697377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: not itchy as in nervous < 1236697377 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: Not really. < 1236697392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :itchy as in dammit it's a .pkg and I don't know where it's going graagh why does a CLI program have a graphical installer this is stupid I'm compiling my own. < 1236697409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, mhm. diff thinks mycology is a binary file btw... ;P < 1236697418 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it is a binary file < 1236697420 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It contains a null byte < 1236697428 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that makes it binary < 1236697443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. -a forces it to treat the file as text < 1236697447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf llvm's Make has no clean < 1236697462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um. what? iirc it uses configure? < 1236697468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :autoconf != automake. < 1236697472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah true < 1236697473 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't it use CMake? < 1236697476 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ok, the ~ part speaks quite for it self < 1236697478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I always done out of tree builds < 1236697486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: it also has a make system < 1236697491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, cmake build system is WIP iirc < 1236697492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clean:: < 1236697492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : $(Verb) rm -rf BuildTools < 1236697498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, so it does have a clean, it's just broken. < 1236697502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe it is completed < 1236697512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION `make -j3` < 1236697519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION in the near future: `make -j9` < 1236697521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, suggest solution: mkdir build; cd build; ../configure ... < 1236697530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then to clean just delete build < 1236697536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it DOES an out of tree buil < 1236697537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d < 1236697539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in BuildTools/ < 1236697543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236697555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agh, I dont' think their build system does -j properly < 1236697558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, then your llvm is quite different from mine... < 1236697569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck this yall, I'm compiling it with cmake < 1236697569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe special for apple? < 1236697577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://llvm.org/releases/2.5/llvm-2.5.tar.gz < 1236697579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, very special. < 1236697596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, last I asked, which admittedly was a few months ago, cmake didn't yet handle the install bit < 1236697606 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Installation is overrated < 1236697610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.5 came out a few days ago. < 1236697611 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just bloat your PATH < 1236697616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes I know < 1236697620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: is that you gobo < 1236697626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I track llvm svn though < 1236697637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :install(DIRECTORY include < 1236697637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : DESTINATION . < 1236697639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : PATTERN ".svn" EXCLUDE < 1236697641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : PATTERN "*.cmake" EXCLUDE < 1236697643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : PATTERN "*.in" EXCLUDE < 1236697645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ) < 1236697655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well they fixed it then I guess < 1236697658 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: http://www.dsource.org/projects/ldc/ does have installation instructions for llvm too, just in case you're making life too difficult for yourself < 1236697670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, how do you set cmake options? < 1236697674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236697678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ccmake < 1236697683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gives you a nice ncurses gui < 1236697683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, I want to enable PIC, optimized, and 3-jobs-at-once < 1236697685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easiest way < 1236697691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it allow me to configure parallel builds? < 1236697720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well cmake/ccmake generates Makefiles, so you would use make -j12357687 or whatever after < 1236697723 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-027-168.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1236697733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kay < 1236697751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks fondly of his dead netcc project < 1236697763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(basically, -j) < 1236697775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no idea if llvm's cmake build system properly handles -j. I mean, I cmake itself handles -j fine in my experience, but some projects manage to break it < 1236697783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the issue is verifying that the objects aren't tampered with) < 1236697806 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also bandwidth < 1236697811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could compile a local copy then and compare ;) < 1236697837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: nahh, object files are only like 1mb < 1236697841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this would be for huge projects like kde < 1236697859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where expending the bandwidth in exchange for massively parallel builds makes sense < 1236697880 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :downloading a megabyte can well take longer than compiling an object file of that size < 1236697885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um... sending that over internet would be slow. Consider that for distcc you have to have gbit ethernet for it to be useful in practise < 1236697893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, depends on how many C++ templates it uses... < 1236697899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you guys ever compiled kde? :P < 1236697931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on Gentoo. I use KDE < 1236697934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you think? < 1236697954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't compiled KDE 4 though < 1236697957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only kde3 < 1236697996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmake should only allow you to compile it with cmake < 1236698022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um. cmake is like automake. It generates makefiles < 1236698030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that made no sense < 1236698034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it did. < 1236698046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there would be an EULA forbidding you from distributing the resulting makefiles < 1236698107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1236698164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc autoconf/automake generated files have a "as a special exception you may distribute this generated file with non-GPL software using auto* build system" < 1236698167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1236698287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ccmake gives me no option to enable optimized < 1236698298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, try t for advanced options? < 1236698304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it is project that defines option < 1236698311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236698314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the build type may be relevant < 1236698318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they use that? < 1236698320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check < 1236698386 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when i read a input (stdin) with ~ - how can i check when i am finished - so check for eof < 1236698390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ENABLE_OPTIMIZED=ENABLE_OPTIMIZED=1 < 1236698391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth < 1236698393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from configure < 1236698416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no OPTIMIZED in cmakelists < 1236698428 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: Did you read the specs? < 1236698440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there are multiple included files < 1236698476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing related < 1236698482 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am < 1236698484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236698490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, strange. I don't know < 1236698555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://groups.google.co.uk/group/comp.lang.scheme/browse_thread/thread/f6c5066346672b00 <-- 346 users, gee! that deserves a group! < 1236698564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, their irc channel is on irc.oftc.net < 1236698566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newlisp doesn't even have lexical variables :-D < 1236698574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :llvm I mean < 1236699024 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am just not so sure about catching it if its acting like an r - only with w? < 1236699167 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: #v~ where the v leads to the error/EOF condition < 1236699173 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For instance) < 1236699421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Computer justified type only looks good to people who like straight edges on their blocks but don’t bother to read the text inside them. " http://hellbox.org/archives/001566.html < 1236699564 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This well-documented open-source algorithm was only finalized in 1982, of course, so it's silly to ask Amazon to do equally well today. < 1236699578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1236699743 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236700114 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1236700231 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236700265 0 :Hiato!n=1@dsl-245-24-250.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1236700342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1236700447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, one thing though: This is for their ebook reader right? I don't know how powerful it is, but the TeX algorithm is not that fast, though I read that thanks to dynamic programming it isn't too bad. For a complete book it could take a while on a low end device I guess.. < 1236700459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why you pre-render it, duh < 1236700487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I was writing that, but you finished your line first < 1236700497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :type faster you hobo < 1236700528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway Plain TeX algorithm isn't that good. pdftex has some optional enhancements that are really nice < 1236700540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beats that awful algorithm on the page < 1236700544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use the package microtype to enable them < 1236700558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, an incredibly easy way to solve this is to just have it ragged-right, which is easier on a screen anyway. < 1236700562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very nice. As usual for TeX there is a lot og good docs for it. < 1236700563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 computational cost! < 1236700572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well you have to compute line breaks < 1236700580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, okay, but that's trivial :P < 1236700581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I find straight margins easier on screen too < 1236700594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least if done properly < 1236700608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the margins in that example you linked I agree ragged would have been better < 1236700637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's generally well-known that ragged-right is easier on a screen, might not be for you but you're weird. < 1236700663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm. Well depends on what sort of text < 1236700694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notes man uses monotype + straight margins < 1236700699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fact that the fast majority of text I've read has been ragged-right on a computer for a huge portion of my life may have something to do with it < 1236700709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, man doing that enrages me to no end < 1236700713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(isn't it technically troff that does that?) < 1236700718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the result isn't good IMO, but better than the kindle thing < 1236700726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder if troff has an option to turn it off < 1236700731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well probably. Or one of the other programs that troff invokes < 1236700734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and possibly < 1236700876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe in your mandoc format definition? On my system that is in /usr/share/groff/current/tmac/andoc.tmac < 1236700881 0 :DH__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Trillian (http://www.ceruleanstudios.com" < 1236700887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah andoc... -m andoc -> -mandoc ... go figure < 1236700899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, like the ubygems trick < 1236700924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? rubygems is some package manager for ruby right? < 1236700932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what needs -r ubygems ? < 1236700936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rubygems < 1236700946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to require rubygems before you can use rubygems packages < 1236700951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for various ugly reasons) < 1236700953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ruby has -r for require < 1236700961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they made ubygems.rb `require "rubygems"` < 1236700969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you know about libiberty? Well -liberty is the link command... GNU people... < 1236700974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1236700985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libibido < 1236700992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love how that sounds when you pronounce it < 1236700995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :libibibibibido < 1236701005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236701015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :andoc doesn't contain the word "margin" anyway < 1236701024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :case insensitive search < 1236701029 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, I was again working on Asiecrypt < 1236701048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: .\" Load either an-old.tmac or doc.tmac. < 1236701052 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This time it encrypts an image into random gibberish and can still decode it < 1236701056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, doesn't say that here... < 1236701062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe a BSD thing. < 1236701080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doc.tmac has the 3-clause BSD license < 1236701084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an-old is GPL 2 < 1236701093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, it does: "Either load doc.tmac or an-old.tmac" < 1236701094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.de set-an-margin < 1236701094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. nr an-margin \\n[IN] < 1236701096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1236701098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god I have troff! < 1236701100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*hate < 1236701115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well the syntax isn't that far from TeX one < 1236701118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just worse < 1236701132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except you can read tex because its names aren't all meaningless 2-character gibberish with \s and .s everywhere < 1236701153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, look. This saves bytes. Remember /usr/share is limited in size. Or was. < 1236701154 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :syslog-ng uses the libol.a library to get "-lol"; I don't think the "ol" meant especially anything there. < 1236701186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's some mature humor < 1236701203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augh < 1236701207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it doesn't seem to be intentional < 1236701209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the google < 1236701212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1236701228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw what software has libibido? < 1236701231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :none < 1236701244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i presume some kind of open source porn viewer would utilize it somehow < 1236701245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? there is no package for it < 1236701249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1236701250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it doesn't exist < 1236701253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i made it up < 1236701258 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes and apparently nowadays: "I moved to using glib instead of libol, as glib is more mature and provides several nice & easy to use features." < 1236701258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1236701259 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe GHC could use libambda when it gets proper shared object support < 1236701261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. there's an mm.tmac < 1236701262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-mmm < 1236701266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, :D < 1236701267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm < 1236701284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, -mm ? I think that exists. I have a m.tmac here... < 1236701288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea what it is for < 1236701289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an mm.tmac. < 1236701292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as m.tmac < 1236701293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-mmm < 1236701333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well both < 1236701393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you will also need to check /etc/man.conf or something like that for what -m is actually used < 1236701407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man_db.conf on some systems. And no idea on OS X < 1236701435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TROFF /usr/bin/groff -Tps -mandoc < 1236701435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NROFF /usr/bin/nroff -mandoc < 1236701435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here < 1236701449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Right-margin justification is turned off for the mm macros." < 1236701463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhu < 1236701469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at mm.tmac < 1236701478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.\" mm.tmac < 1236701478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.\" < 1236701479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.do mso m.tmac < 1236701484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1236701487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is include I guess < 1236701490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1236701495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so look at m.tmac < 1236701500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am. < 1236701504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well mandoc.tmac includes andoc.tmac < 1236701511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.\" paragraph type < 1236701511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.\" 0 == left-justified < 1236701512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.\" 1 == indented .P < 1236701514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.\" 2 == indented .P except after .H, .DE or .LE. < 1236701516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.nr Pt 0 < 1236701518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think nr is a variable < 1236701521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.P < 1236701527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange similey < 1236701534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :smiley* < 1236701547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus christ this is just painful < 1236701561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes roff is < 1236701572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, at least, teco would have been worse < 1236701595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naw, teco is obscure but not much more than, say, befunge < 1236701599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because it has short commands < 1236701606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas this is a syntactic clusterfuck < 1236701610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well roff has short commands too < 1236701620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but it's everything else that's the issue. < 1236701657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm not sure what the other stuff is. I just know enogh *roff to write a simple man page. Which is far from that above. < 1236701709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, teco is pretty intuitive, actually < 1236701713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EBhello.c < 1236701717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :E means edit, B means with backups < 1236701724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and two escapes terminates a command < 1236701738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P p means P-age it reads the first page of text in < 1236701740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1236701756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think most languages seem easy/intuitive if you used them enough :P < 1236701758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SHello0TT <- ESC obviously separates command arguments < 1236701760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S means search < 1236701776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what 0TT is, probably "print line 0" (with relative offsets) < 1236701782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't even know teco, but it seems simple enough to me < 1236701790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-5DIGoodbye0TT < 1236701796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-5D prints 5 characters backwards, obviously < 1236701801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, does that bf interpreter in TECO seem "simple enough" too? < 1236701802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahh < 1236701803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : is ; < 1236701807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0TT just prints the current line < 1236701823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I is obviously insert < 1236701825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it prints the line < 1236701829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EX < 1236701832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exit < 1236701849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, i get that the brainfuck interp looks complex, but actual editing seems basically like ed < 1236701853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : @^UB#@S/{^EQQ,/#@^UC#@S/,^EQQ}/@-1S/{/#@^UR#.U1ZJQZ\^SC.,.+-^SXQ-^SDQ1J#@^U9/[]-+<>.,/<@:-FD/^N^EG9/;>J30000<0@I/ < 1236701854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : />ZJZUL30000J0U10U20U30U60U7@^U4/[]/@^U5#<@:S/^EG4/U7Q7;-AU3(Q3-91)"=%1|Q1"=.U6ZJ@i/{/Q2\@i/,/Q6\@i/}/Q6J0;'-1%1' < 1236701854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : >#<@:S/[/UT.U210^T13^TQT;QT"NM5Q2J'>0UP30000J.US.UI<(0A-43)"=QPJ0AUTDQT+1@I//QIJ@O/end/'(0A-45)"=QPJ0AUTDQT-1@I// < 1236701854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : QIJ@O/end/'(0A-60)"=QP-1UP@O/end/'(0A-62)"=QP+1UP@O/end/'(0A-46)"=-.+QPA^T(-.+QPA-10)"=13^T'@O/end/'(0A-44)"=^TUT < 1236701856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 8^TQPJDQT@I//QIJ@O/end/'(0A-91)"=-.+QPA"=QI+1UZQLJMRMB\-1J.UI'@O/end/'(0A-93)"=-.+QPA"NQI+1UZQLJMRMC\-1J.UI'@O/en < 1236701859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : d/'!end!QI+1UI(.-Z)"=.=@^a/END/^c^c'C> < 1236701861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that? < 1236701866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1236701874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ugly, but I bet if you added newlines after command blocks it'd make sense < 1236701880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well true < 1236701889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just because it's all mushed together, and plus, using a text editor to implement brainfuck will never be pretty < 1236701893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(disregarding things like elisp) < 1236701908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, elisp isn't pretty. < 1236701920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed, but you can read a bf interp in it easily < 1236701932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elisp itself is horrific < 1236701935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even with all optional spaces/newlines removed? < 1236701945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and with one letter names where possible < 1236701947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1236701949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going to install teco < 1236701953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :te(1) is an implementation of TECO in portable C. It implements DEC standard < 1236701953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TECO, with some exceptions and extensions described below. te assumes a < 1236701955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VT100-type terminal, and its display driver is hard-coded for such. < 1236701957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Homepage: http://www.ibiblio.org/pub/academic/computer-science/history/pdp-11/teco/ < 1236701960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236701962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in macporst < 1236701963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236701966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :macporst? < 1236701968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :macports < 1236701978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :semi-official os x package manager < 1236701982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, some package maintainer gone insane < 1236701984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clearly < 1236701994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nomaintainer@macports.org is indeed insane < 1236702002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they let just about everything into their repos, which is nice < 1236702010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would expect debian to have it, if license is ok. Otherwise no distro < 1236702015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TECO for Ultrix Matt Fichtenbaum February 27, 1987 < 1236702015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : revised 7/17/89 < 1236702019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--documentation < 1236702025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how do you submit ports then? < 1236702026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to it < 1236702033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ask in #macports :P < 1236702035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to submit a rootkit named gcc < 1236702036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236702038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1236702047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : backward paging in file (negative arguments to P, N, etc.) < 1236702049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :under missing features < 1236702052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er. < 1236702058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err sounds like more vs. less < 1236702058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't backwards paging, kind of < 1236702060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know < 1236702062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worthwhile? < 1236702063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :useful? < 1236702066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trivial to implement? < 1236702070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, compare more and less < 1236702074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more can't go back < 1236702076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but this is an editor :P < 1236702083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point < 1236702093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is teco, kind of < 1236702094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know < 1236702097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :worthwhile? < 1236702099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :useful? < 1236702102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1236702140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most DEC command languages interpreted the "MAKE filename" command as a command to start TECO and create the named filename. Many (most?) TECOs would respond to "MAKE LOVE" with the message "Not war?". At some TECO installation sites, the resulting file "LOVE" was considered a good-luck charm and was thus accorded heavy file protection (e.g., <777> under TOPS-10), never to be deleted. < 1236702141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway what about dc code? < 1236702145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it hard to read? < 1236702148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, dc is just like underload really < 1236702157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except with arithmetic, so even easier < 1236702203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I have seen dc programs that look about as confusing as the bf interpreter in TECO.. And I have seen readable ones. < 1236702210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have written confusing ones too < 1236702215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and readable < 1236702228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was right < 1236702234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : terminates the command :D < 1236702236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dc is a nice calculator, but doing text processing in it is just stupid < 1236702238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and makes a new command line) < 1236702277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, this is buggy < 1236702303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://99-bottles-of-beer.net/language-dc-704.html <-- that isn't too bad. But I have seen much worse < 1236702375 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian bug report 298432 -- http://bugs.debian.org/cgi-bin/bugreport.cgi?bug=298432 -- is someone requesting TECO, but it never happened. < 1236702495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Jannis Harder? that's jix < 1236702511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ? < 1236702516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the writer of that 99bob < 1236702520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1236702528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I see. Didn't know < 1236702630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gets a silly idea... < 1236702630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ==1234== 99 bytes in 1 blocks are still reachable in loss record 1 of 99 < 1236702630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ==1234== 98 bytes in 1 blocks are still reachable in loss record 2 of 99 < 1236702638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that :D < 1236702645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut? < 1236702655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not the same of course. But a parody < 1236702659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of the worst type < 1236702660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get it < 1236702677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 99 bottles of valgrind < 1236702677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236702695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aiee < 1236702708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a case of making a leaky enough program that generates the output you want < 1236702739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, how much interest do you think there would be in a precise, generational, parallel and concurrent (i.e., the GC uses multiple threads, and runs in parallel with the mutator) GC? < 1236702760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's kind of rhetorical, there's huge demand for that < 1236702763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if it also gives good performance: A *LOT* < 1236702775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1236702779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on for what language/vm < 1236702782 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that exactly what's happening with GHC soon/now? < 1236702785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: pluggable < 1236702791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, would it work for C? < 1236702792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ghc's gc still pauses threads < 1236702793 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.e. somebody was working on it < 1236702799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you can't make a precise GC for C < 1236702800 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Yes, currently < 1236702802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's impossible < 1236702803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, exactly. < 1236702810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for what language/vm then? < 1236702813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it may be possible to plug in some stuff to make it conservative < 1236702814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1236702816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, pluggable < 1236702818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236702825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., you set off some defines for your language and you're done < 1236702838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you mean one GC that you can plug into java, .NET, ocaml, ghc and so on? < 1236702840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236702846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like impossible < 1236702847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you have to modify their implementation to do it, of course < 1236702851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1236702864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it'll just need some functions like heap traversal etc < 1236702885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also a GC for a single assignment language can take advantage of some extra stuff iirc < 1236702891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I may misremember that < 1236702912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was planning to basically optimize it for Scheme. < 1236702930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., not all-out-imperative, but not purely-functional, strict, high-level < 1236702943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should cover a wide range of other languages < 1236702955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. most modern scripting languages like perl, python, ruby < 1236703088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236703096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems valgrind sorts so largest leak is last < 1236703282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: woo, I've sussed basic editing with teco < 1236703290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/private/xstfyhfbfciqpr6yqkuhvw < 1236703303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be evident how it works from that session < 1236703329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(S puts the cursor right after the term) < 1236703335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus the mid-line prompt after 0T < 1236703396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1236703412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, will you use this as your main text editor now? < 1236703418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236703423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I might use it where I would have used ed < 1236703428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(tiny changes to system files) < 1236703436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tapping all the time is a bit annoying < 1236703614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird:~/Junk] % ls -lh `which teco` < 1236703614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-rwxr-xr-x@ 1 root wheel 99K 10 Mar 15:39 /usr/local/bin/teco < 1236703615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird:~/Junk] % ls -lh `which ed` < 1236703617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-r-xr-xr-x 1 root wheel 111K 10 Sep 02:06 /bin/ed < 1236703625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YEAH TECO < 1236703675 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/bin/ed is 49K here O_o < 1236703676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You appear to be a bot, I can't accept your paste. JS is now required to paste. < 1236703677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth < 1236703683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried to use a pastebin ehird liked < 1236703687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: LOL what pastebin? < 1236703691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i don't like the pastebins I link < 1236703693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only use pastie < 1236703696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, pastie.org < 1236703697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just trying to find a fast one < 1236703699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the one < 1236703700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... wait, really? < 1236703703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes < 1236703707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rafb here I come! < 1236703709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow. < 1236703713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is amazingly retarded. < 1236703720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using paste.lisp.org from now on. < 1236703730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the captcha thingy... < 1236703731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'll write you a command-line paste.lisp.org paster, dammit :P < 1236703737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw http://rafb.net/p/1giASD62.html < 1236703744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :silly yes < 1236703760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :( http://pastie.org/412847 ) < 1236703761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that's great < 1236703776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should record it < 1236703780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds catchy. < 1236703785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The proxy server received an invalid response from an upstream server. < 1236703785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The proxy server could not handle the request GET /. < 1236703786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reason: Error reading from remote server < 1236703788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--paste.lisp.org < 1236703790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X_X < 1236703802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:47 Deewiant: /bin/ed is 49K here O_o < 1236703805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1236703807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mach-O binaries tend to have large overhead < 1236703820 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right, it's two binaries, isn't it? < 1236703831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236703837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think it's universa < 1236703838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :l < 1236703885 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mach-Os can have code for multiple archs < 1236703892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1236703893 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not only the new Universal ones < 1236703904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :universal binary = marketing term for dual-arch mach-os < 1236703913 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, great < 1236703947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PPC macs are probably going to be unsupported in 10.7 or so < 1236703975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it'll have been 5-6 years since you could buy a ppc mac < 1236704020 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/m564d25c7 can someone give me a hint what i have to do to read a new char from stdin? i want to evaluate the first one, then print something and then read one again, but at this point the program quits < 1236704058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: <<< is pointless < 1236704060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you only need one < < 1236704064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it'll keep going that way < 1236704068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prettier, though, I guess < 1236704078 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cue AnMaster saying it's slower < 1236704109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1236704110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just thinking that < 1236704115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: see neldoreth's paste < 1236704116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uses << < 1236704120 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: AnMaster < 1236704120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also see backlog. < 1236704125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236704126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. < 1236704172 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know but i can "draw something" :D < 1236704172 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should run back to the ~ in the left corner all the time < 1236704173 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: it might be easier to use "a"- instead of 99*-44*- < 1236704188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proposed new name for naive mark and sweep GCs: Racially discriminatory garbage collection < 1236704190 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if you're using Befunge-98, 'a- < 1236704190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(white/black, geddit?) < 1236704204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, http://rafb.net/p/kpPckS27.html < 1236704229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: now do it as a loop < 1236704232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, also space is faster in ticks < 1236704234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(99bob only accepts looping submissions) < 1236704247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well hard, valgrind will merge the leak records then < 1236704252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :( http://pastie.org/private/iv4m2aemernoywywhfy2nq ) < 1236704254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: just loop in cpp < 1236704255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ it doesn't print the actual lyrics < 1236704255 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, exactly that's what I said you'd say < 1236704258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :99bob has been done in CPP < 1236704263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah hm true < 1236704273 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: Your logic seems strange < 1236704280 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the left top box in the middle checks if the input is an a, the right top one if its an b - the lower boxes are just printing something < 1236704282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it'd probably be accepted if you explained why it's as close as you can get in valgrind < 1236704289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well you might prefer <<< if you want to sync threads < 1236704299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since space take no ticks < 1236704306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or one in strings < 1236704312 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: Or no, wait, you quit if you don't get an 'a' or 'b' < 1236704334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: #define G(n) void l ## n (){for(int i=0;i.< < 1236707394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236707404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you pass a shell function something like "a b", it can just use $1 instead of "$1", right? < 1236707510 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Think so. < 1236707533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, my shell script just lost 500KB of quotes :P < 1236707589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://www.nopaste.com/ < 1236707594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loads really fast < 1236707599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION continues writing script < 1236707620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a delete button? < 1236707628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems to be IP-based. < 1236707640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess it's for the "oh shit I just pasted my password" < 1236707641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :case < 1236707660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no bash highlight? < 1236707669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true, it does lack highlights < 1236707672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: C highlight would work for bash < 1236707680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not well in my experience < 1236707725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrrm < 1236707728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks < 1236708223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisp.paste.org has no bash hgihlighting, actually < 1236708227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whch is a shame but oh well, who cares < 1236708431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hey, the captcha is gone! < 1236708436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1236708437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it only does it once per IP < 1236708437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks < 1236708444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cookie iirc < 1236708449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236708457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1236708460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the captcha is css < 1236708461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not an image < 1236708467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1236708470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1236708484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'' < 1236708486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't select it... hm < 1236708486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how infuriating. < 1236708494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could just use the xml-rpc, but meh. < 1236708502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. < 1236708515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a table? < 1236708525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, a div < 1236708530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1236708550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% curl -s http://paste.lisp.org/|grep captcha < 1236708551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : >)(elt(]())>))(](<)(do-external-symbols(] :cl)(push ] <))(sort < 1236712018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have: hex a < 1236712018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<`string<`:key`string))(}({ + ^)({`816`1/5)({`688({`875({`398()"~{~A~^ < 1236712020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~}"(]())){(+ { +)))({`381)^))(do*(({`5248({`584 }`36063))([`874({`395 < 1236712022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{`6))(]`4({`584 {`6))(}`#36RH4G6HUTA1NVC1ZHC({`395 }`36063)))((} [ ] < 1236712024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :({`977 ]))({`902)({`381)))) < 1236712025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1236712026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ a janlh, < 1236712027 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow that's pretty < 1236712028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :program < 1236712032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: run it in a common lisp interpreter < 1236712048 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that < 1236712054 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :janlh < 1236712054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not sure I want to. could be overwrite files or whatever < 1236712058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it isn't. < 1236712062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I promise. < 1236712064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, then what does it do? < 1236712067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, I'm the last person to do something like that < 1236712071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you know japh programs? < 1236712073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just another perl hacker) < 1236712075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's one of those. < 1236712078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds familiar < 1236712082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't remember details < 1236712090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they print out "Just another perl hacker," < 1236712093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the most obscure way possible < 1236712094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1236712122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can tell, by the way, this one works by searching through all standard common lisp names, finding one with the most consecutive characters to output next, and outputs it < 1236712124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then repeats < 1236712144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1236712153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh oh, is that a dead pixel on my screen? < 1236712158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't wipe it off. < 1236712168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, doesn't most screens have 1-2 or so? < 1236712178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This one has had none. < 1236712181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1236712184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lucky you < 1236712185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's probably just some dust or something < 1236712203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be a new one < 1236712206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, maybe it has them but it's in some obscure corner where I never look < 1236712211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the dpi is high enough that i'd probably never notice < 1236712215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this one is in a particularly annoying place < 1236712230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where? < 1236712247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course. Over my name in the nick list. Could be no worse place ;P < 1236712253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right now, on my IRC input line, which is white-backgrounded, so it stands out a lot. < 1236712270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, all going to plan I'll be replacing this monitor soon, anyway, so no great loss ... < 1236712283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is the good thing with black terminals :P < 1236712292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, the one good thing < 1236712294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't see the dead pixels as much < 1236712318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally I also find it easier to read white on black... < 1236712341 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's nicer < 1236712352 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish books were printed that way < 1236712363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be true if you used the computer a lot at night; but I hate the dark (it depresses me) so I optimize for daylight < 1236712406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, no that wouldn't work as well, Screen and print are different < 1236712416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's oklopol < 1236712421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he'd find a way to make it work. < 1236712438 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love white on black it on print too < 1236712443 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you actually tried, anmy? < 1236712452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :high quality paper too, since ink would otherwise saturate it badly < 1236712456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so does lisppaste(1) work for you? < 1236712467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh *tests* < 1236712474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: make sure to set LISPPASTE_USER < 1236712481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably want to do that in .profile or whatever < 1236712557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it does < 1236712572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, did you see http://common-lisp.net/project/lisppaste/xml-rpc.html btw? < 1236712579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236712584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but xml-rpc is a hideous protocol < 1236712588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'd have to escape XML < 1236712593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok good point < 1236712712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why do you use curl? < 1236712719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash has tcp support... < 1236712727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1236712730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ;P < 1236712733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could also fucking write it in dd/sh but I won't :P < 1236712744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(dd/sh = use only shell builtins and dd) < 1236712758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would you open network connection then? < 1236712761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/dev/tcp < 1236712766 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.128 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236712767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, that is a bash extension < 1236712770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1236712772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^ < 1236712774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's a shell builtin < 1236712775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://select.intercal.org.uk/dd.sh/ < 1236712790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/dev/tcp is a bash extension afaik? < 1236712796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks < 1236712798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236712801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's a BASH builtin < 1236712805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well true < 1236712810 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can a file be a builtin? < 1236712814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that is dd/bash, not dd/sh < 1236712819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever :P < 1236712820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed it isn't < 1236712824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: uh, dd.sh uses files < 1236712828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just the commands that are restricted < 1236712831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I decided to ignore it to avoid confusion < 1236712833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also hi ais523 < 1236712840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: today I compiled a TECO port for unix < 1236712845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's actually quite usable < 1236712857 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it was the main editor around for ages < 1236712860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and I wrote 99 bottles of valgrind < 1236712862 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I wouldn't expect it to be unusual < 1236712863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it isn't perfect yet < 1236712867 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what, how? < 1236712875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*unusable < 1236712877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not the actual song lyrics exactly < 1236712881 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: are you using it as an interactive or batch editor? < 1236712885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but a joke on it < 1236712888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: interactive < 1236712895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the commands are basically like ed < 1236712896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except more intuitive < 1236712898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there, I said it < 1236712898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, http://www.nopaste.com/p/a1S6eQHnp < 1236712901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TECO is easier than ed. < 1236712930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I plan to avoid the _ thing by doing something like: $(for i in {0..99};do echo -n | cpp -traditional -Da$i="r($i)a$((i+1))"; done | sed '^/|//') < 1236712933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not exactly < 1236712935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but similar < 1236712954 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: sounds great < 1236712954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need quoting < 1236712959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I should learn it < 1236712962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: here, I'll give you a transcript URL < 1236712982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://pastie.org/private/xstfyhfbfciqpr6yqkuhvw < 1236712986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nopaste.com? < 1236712989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note that at one point, I get a * prompt in the middle of the line < 1236712990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway what do you think of that program? < 1236712991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236713013 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's a memory-leak 99 bottles of beer? < 1236713024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is safe to run. I assume you have valgrind < 1236713028 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :couldn't you use a loop? writing all 99 bottles by hand is cheating < 1236713031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I have valgrind < 1236713035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes I plan to loop < 1236713039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in cpp < 1236713043 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I've only just sat down and already people are trying to make me do everything at once < 1236713051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't call same function, valgrind merges backtraces < 1236713055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at mine first, it's cooler ;-) < 1236713058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it can't work without 99 different functions < 1236713064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what if you call it from 99 different contexts? < 1236713069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: btw, $ there is how is printed < 1236713078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two escapes terminate a line < 1236713078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :valgrind doesn't merge different callstacks < 1236713079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm. That would still need 99 code paths right? < 1236713082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one escape terminates a variadic command (like insert (I)) < 1236713085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which would be about same < 1236713100 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 99 codepaths you can do with just 2 functions < 1236713108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if those functions are both directly recursive and mutually recursive < 1236713122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you'd need to increase the context depth a bit in valgrind < 1236713123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err valgrind *does* merging between 8 calls backwards < 1236713124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1236713134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if not exactly the same < 1236713145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you can choose the number of stack entries that have to match < 1236713146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236713149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah yes true < 1236713155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could work < 1236713155 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, 99 < 2 to the power 7 < 1236713167 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@e-239.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1236713186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236713198 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what does newline do in TECO, by the way? < 1236713205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how would that work out... *thinks* < 1236713208 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that all the unprintable characters do something < 1236713209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's not interpreted specially, so it just keeps waiting for input < 1236713210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not what < 1236713212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do: < 1236713215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ihello, < 1236713216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :world!$$ < 1236713220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to insert multiple lines < 1236713222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you mean aaab, aaba and so on? < 1236713225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just like ed, really < 1236713234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, what else < 1236713251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well right, need to work out how to figure out what to call when < 1236713251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236713252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I think TECO's a worthy ancestor to both Emacs and vi < 1236713256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ed was clearly inspired by it < 1236713261 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and vi descended from ed < 1236713262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would have to do some modulo tricks < 1236713263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1236713268 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas Emacs was originally written in TECO < 1236713269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vi was descended from ex < 1236713273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was descended from ed < 1236713273 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes < 1236713275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I'm not sure < 1236713276 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1236713296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird:~/Junk] % teco < 1236713296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Elliott Hird$$ < 1236713298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?NYI Not yet implemented < 1236713303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not yet implemented :( < 1236713307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1236713314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that implementation needs work? < 1236713324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it just isn't 100% complete :P < 1236713351 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finding out what your name does in TECO used to be a common thing for people to figure out < 1236713353 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has a course in mathematica < 1236713357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOO! < 1236713365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes but running and checking is cheating < 1236713367 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION screams receding into the distance < 1236713369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to work it out *first* < 1236713370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahaha < 1236713372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what? < 1236713379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: can you notice messages, please? < 1236713383 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: in reply to oklopol < 1236713383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:29 oklopol has a course in mathematica < 1236713387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236713387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and? < 1236713391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also you copied that from wikipedia < 1236713398 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, me doing that? < 1236713399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ais523, wolfram prize, mathematica, hates, memory working yet? < 1236713404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, the TECO name thing < 1236713411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236713412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1236713414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've seen it before, possibly in the jargon file < 1236713421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, still the reaction seems like a strange joke < 1236713433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you don't even have to use uppercase with teco < 1236713438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's case insensitive < 1236713477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how boring < 1236713521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that's crazy: it reacts to all the control codes, but doesn't distinguish lowercase/uppercase? < 1236713525 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I just realised why < 1236713526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, of course, most ASCII does nothing since TECO had a more restrictive character set < 1236713534 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TECO was probably invented before lowercase on computers was < 1236713539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PDP-10 < 1236713550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It is literally the case that every string of characters is a valid TECO program" < 1236713552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, um, no. < 1236713558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Case in point: I get errors. < 1236713575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :''Initially, if I remember correctly, EMACS was Eugene Ciccarelli's init file which made use of MIT TECO's ^R mode ("Realtime") that repainted the screen. RMS started hacking on it around '76 I think and it kind of, um, grew." < 1236713581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, rms didn't start emacs. < 1236713597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1236713609 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, I don't think so < 1236713613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU Emacs was only one implementation < 1236713622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :errrr < 1236713626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was the first. < 1236713629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was originally just EMACS < 1236713640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was just saying that he originally forked it from someone else's init file :D < 1236713660 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there were others, I even came across a rather primitive one years ago, for DOS < 1236713660 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :elisp is specific to GNU Emacs and its derivatives, though I think < 1236713670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for DOS? < 1236713673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's recent < 1236713675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're talking the 70s < 1236713680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you understand what I am saying < 1236713681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, about finding out which order to call, what would be the best way? I'm thinking of some sort of depth counter combined with the number counter < 1236713698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :common knowledge: RMS started emacs. Funny anecdote: It was originally a fork of someone else's init file. < 1236713737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: just use a decrementing int < 1236713740 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and check its bit pattern < 1236713749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, you don't even need to do that < 1236713760 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void a() {a(); b();} < 1236713764 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void b() {b(); a();} < 1236713773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :insert parameters and some bottoming-out condition to taste < 1236713773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that would mean 99 calls < 1236713785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no < 1236713802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a depth of half each? < 1236714049 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236714308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mymacro=$(a=$(for i in {1..99};do echo -n "|cpp -P -traditional -Da$i=\"r($i)a$((i+1))\" - "; done | sed 's/|//'); echo "a1" | eval "$a" | tail -n1); echo $mymacro < 1236714317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I think that is a much more promising way < 1236714323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's cheating, though < 1236714330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might as well just echo out valgrind's output < 1236714335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, depends on what language you declare it is in? < 1236714368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it generates the macro expansion in question < 1236714378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but of course, a recursive variant is another one < 1236714619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Oh, and here's a program that done paste stuff. http://paste.lisp.org/display/76773 < 1236714633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Tip: export LISPPASTE_USER.) < 1236714648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, those cases look like ocaml. < 1236714687 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ah, an autopaste script < 1236714690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know you said that < 1236714698 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but wasn't quite sure, given that you mentioned a pastebin later on the line < 1236714700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster refused to use another pastebin with one, so. :P < 1236714709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1236714711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whether you were referring to that it did pasting, or that you were pasting < 1236714715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1236714716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swith$Iout$$ < 1236714732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(oh god help I'm a teco user) < 1236714732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1236714766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that's shorter than the corresponding regex < 1236714767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I bet almost no one will understand the teco implication < 1236714772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/with/\&out/ < 1236714784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also... it looks quite similar to sed < 1236714797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1236714823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so what if you want a literal I there? < 1236714829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you put one in. < 1236714835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ () is the command terminator < 1236714835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would that look? < 1236714845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Swith$IouIt$$ < 1236714849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236714856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :commands like S and I take up to the next < 1236714858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would that be same as: s/with/Iout/ < 1236714859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1236714862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouIt. < 1236714869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S and I are commands, they read along until < 1236714871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well what if I want that line < 1236714874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swith$IouIt$$ < 1236714875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is < 1236714881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S(with); I(ouIt); < 1236714890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so then: < 1236714892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't know how you put an escape in < 1236714897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swith$IIout$$ < 1236714897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1236714899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't know how you put an escape in < 1236714899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't know how you put an escape in < 1236714903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would that work < 1236714911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236714912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236714914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why wouldn't it? < 1236714918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1236714920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as soon as you hit an I it reads until < 1236714921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know teco < 1236714929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but I just told you < 1236714931 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's a bit like Lua < 1236714933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiple times < 1236714936 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that Lua starts blocks lots of different ways < 1236714938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what no it isn't < 1236714939 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ends them all with end < 1236714942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1236714943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of... < 1236714950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TECO's the same, it starts commands with lots of different chars, but all end with < 1236714958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, no < 1236714963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only commands that take text input < 1236714965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, < 1236714965 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ok < 1236714965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so the $ means an escape. So when you write it in a teco script is it $ or ? < 1236714969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-5DIhello$$ < 1236714973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's and echos as $ < 1236714978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D takes -5 *before* it < 1236714983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning 'delete the previous 5 characters' < 1236714987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echoing as a literal escape character would be confusing for your terminal < 1236714988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236714995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, you input as < 1236714995 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: very vi < 1236715007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what if you want to edit a teco script? replacing in it? < 1236715007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can even do < 1236715007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236715008 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although actually, all the teco-inspired editors retained that feature in some form < 1236715012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-5$$ < 1236715014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*D$$ < 1236715018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it has a stack < 1236715022 0 :MigoMipo_!n=MigoMipo@84-217-2-230.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236715026 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: TECO is not only TC < 1236715030 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but /deliberately/ TC < 1236715030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, emacs does \e right? < 1236715032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually no < 1236715036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't work like that < 1236715038 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: err? < 1236715039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to put it right before < 1236715046 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :literal escape in emacs is C-q ESC < 1236715047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, for escapes < 1236715051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the file < 1236715062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks < 1236715065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it appears as ^] in the file < 1236715071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in red, rather than the usual colour, if you have colour on < 1236715077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1236715078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ^[ < 1236715081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't copy paste from emacs < 1236715085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does something strange < 1236715090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the escapes < 1236715107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I see ^?ELF^B ..... ^@\250 and such < 1236715114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess it does both ^ and \ < 1236715124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to escape non-printable < 1236715128 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, \ is for characters with codes over 126 < 1236715142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :File Edit Options Buffers Tools Help < 1236715144 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^[abc < 1236715150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a literal esc at the start of the line < 1236715155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Here's the TECO I use: http://almy.us/teco.html < 1236715166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need the linux version, not the unix one < 1236715178 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Peace and Protection 4.22.2" < 1236715182 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting, there isn't normally that much of a difference < 1236715185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copy tecoc, teco, Make, and inspect into your PATH < 1236715191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you can start it with 'teco' < 1236715198 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no make install script? < 1236715201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1236715208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, teco/Make/inspect are symlinks < 1236715208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to tecoc < 1236715213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tip: to exit, try "EX$$" < 1236715224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does the it need a special linux version? < 1236715233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the UNIX is for old unixes < 1236715235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236715238 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: many old UNIX programs needed changing when ported to Linux < 1236715238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Urix or something < 1236715246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you use linux one on macosx? < 1236715249 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yacc vs. bison is one of the most common sticking points < 1236715254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236715256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you use the os x one on os x < 1236715264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although don't copy over Make since HFS+ is case insensitive < 1236715269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(use 'tecoc make') < 1236715274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what do you use on OS9? < 1236715276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err I have yacc, byacc and bison < 1236715279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't < 1236715286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ /usr/bin/yacc --version < 1236715286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usage: /usr/bin/yacc [-dlrtv] [-b file_prefix] [-p symbol_prefix] filename < 1236715291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yacc is still bison in yacc compatibility mode < 1236715292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this one is so old all the filenames are INUPPERCASE.C < 1236715294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ /usr/bin/yacc.bison --version < 1236715294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bison (GNU Bison) 2.3 < 1236715296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on most linux systems < 1236715297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why then that < 1236715303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :explain those two lines < 1236715315 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's possible you have a genuine old copy of yacc lying around somewhere < 1236715316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10-Dec-1987 version 100 < 1236715316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :baseline version as of Fall Decus Symposium, Anaheim < 1236715319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1236715325 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: are they really C++? that would be so great if they disguised the extension like that < 1236715325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a modern port to portable C, and yet it's still ancient < 1236715329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1236715330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236715341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, dev-util/yacc is from http://dinosaur.compilertools.net/#yacc installed as a dependency of something < 1236715347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION follows url < 1236715359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236715362 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: dinosaur.compilertools sounds like a good description for original yacc < 1236715364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no download there, huh < 1236715379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOMEPAGE="http://dinosaur.compilertools.net/#yacc" < 1236715379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SRC_URI="ftp://metalab.unc.edu/pub/Linux/devel/compiler-tools/${P}.tar.Z" < 1236715380 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-INTERCAL build used to fail on SunOS because it needed directives to tell lex to increase the size of its internal buffers < 1236715382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1236715384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1236715387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't bison anyway < 1236715410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all I was saying was, on most linux systems with a program called yacc, it's a wrapper around bison < 1236715416 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yours just happens to be different < 1236715418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :${P} is replaced with yacc-1.9.1 < 1236715435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yeah that wrapper is /usr/bin/yacc.bison < 1236715447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ yacc --help < 1236715449 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU bison generates parsers for LALR(1) grammars. < 1236715451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523, err I have yacc, byacc and bison < 1236715451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : you don't < 1236715455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236715456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ehird thought I didn't < 1236715462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i didn't < 1236715471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what were you replying to then? < 1236715474 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ file /etc/alternatives/yacc < 1236715475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you upgrade your freaking brain firmware, it runs on DOS and is unable to multithread conversations < 1236715475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/etc/alternatives/yacc: symbolic link to `/usr/bin/bison.yacc' < 1236715480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ file /usr/bin/yacc < 1236715481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/bin/yacc: symbolic link to `/etc/alternatives/yacc' < 1236715495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:01 ais523: ehird: what do you use on OS9? < 1236715495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:01 AnMaster: ais523, err I have yacc, byacc and bison < 1236715497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:01 ehird: you don't < 1236715500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I was talking about teco at the time < 1236715503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the heck do you think? < 1236715504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird: what do you use on OS9? you don't < 1236715506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1236715511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes even less sense < 1236715515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1236715520 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yacc seems to be in debian alternatives < 1236715525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are two types of arguments: numeric arguments, and text arguments. Numeric arguments come before the command; text arguments come after the command. < 1236715526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, interesting < 1236715528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes sense < 1236715529 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which implies strongly to me that debian have a non-bison yacc in the repos somewhere < 1236715560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Alternatively (and easier to read), if the command is prefixed by an "@" character, then the first character after the command is the delimiter, and the string will continue until the next instance of that character. < 1236715561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about byacc? < 1236715563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I/hello world/ < 1236715568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236715570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@I/hello world/ < 1236715576 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ah, that appears to be BSD yacc < 1236715577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1236715584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just did apt-cache search yacc | grep yacc < 1236715589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dickey.his.com/byacc/byacc.html < 1236715591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have that too < 1236715594 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes it case-insensitive just in case < 1236715623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dev-util/btyacc - http://www.siber.com/btyacc - Backtracking YACC - modified from Berkeley YACC < 1236715624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth? < 1236715626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@eb"hello.c" <- practically modern. < 1236715629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :masked on amd64 < 1236715632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what do you mean wth? < 1236715635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's yacc that can backtrack < 1236715637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when parsing < 1236715655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yeah, but that is crazy < 1236715660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not? < 1236715674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First, you can use them as variables: each Q-register stores a string and an integer. Second, any string stored in a Q-register can be used as a subroutine; in fact, that's the only way to create a subroutine. < 1236715677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl, is that you? < 1236715679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: actually, original yacc never backtracks < 1236715684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1236715687 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bison doesn't either < 1236715692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'yacc that can backtrack' = modified yacc < 1236715695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can handle general grammars, but it does that a different way < 1236715699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hellooooo < 1236715705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well why would you want a backtracking yacc... < 1236715709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is my question < 1236715709 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, I noticed, your sentence was ambiguous < 1236715715 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because you have a nondeterministic grammar to process? < 1236715734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ok. Like intercal right? < 1236715739 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1236715746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, any other such languages? < 1236715759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :regular INTERCAL can just about be handled by regular yacc, but only due to a restriction in the INTERCAL-72 standard specifically to make that possible < 1236715769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I know < 1236715770 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and C++ and Perl both have similar parsing problems < 1236715775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1236715780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how comes? < 1236715784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well perl has BEGIN < 1236715787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what about C++? < 1236715793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, I hung teco < 1236715804 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I found a really diabolical line of C++ in the FQA, let me dig it up < 1236715806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: parsing C++ is turing complete < 1236715809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to templates < 1236715810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :being TC < 1236715820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*^UZIhello$$ < 1236715820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*MZ$$ < 1236715821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1236715832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, that proves compilation is turing complete, not parsing < 1236715839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's parsing < 1236715841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to typename stuff < 1236715842 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it happens, though, the compilation can affect the parsing, making it turing complete too < 1236715844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1236715847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a template can make something a typename that wasn't < 1236715850 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that parsing is TC, but you didn't explain the reason < 1236715852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it IS due to templates < 1236715864 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :int x = confusing::q < 3 > (2); < 1236715871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1236715879 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that can actually parse differently depending on the return of sizeof, with appropriate definitions < 1236715887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, iirc you have to use "typename" in front in ambiguous situations < 1236715896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1236715904 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see http://yosefk.com/c++fqa/web-vs-c++.html for the full program < 1236715911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks < 1236715938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, TECO has as an insertion command < 1236715941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like I but puts a tab in front < 1236715941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1236715947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Iint main(void) {$$ < 1236715957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* printf("Hello, world!\n"); < 1236715960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236715961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$$ < 1236715966 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* return 0;$$ < 1236715969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I}$$ < 1236715970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun < 1236715987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: does it autoindent? < 1236715992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no :P < 1236715997 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1236716003 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's TC, shouldn't be too hard to implement < 1236716045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How to write a TECO hello world, with TECO: < 1236716047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% tecoc make hello.tec < 1236716047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*I^AHello, world! < 1236716049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^A$$ < 1236716051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*EX$$ < 1236716060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does tecoc do? < 1236716068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :teco compiler? < 1236716070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: teco-c is the implementation < 1236716074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236716075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :teco and inspect are linked to it < 1236716076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also Make < 1236716076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1236716079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but HFS+ is case insensitive < 1236716082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can't use that symlink < 1236716088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because of, y'know, make(1)) < 1236716092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I have to invoke the implementation directly. < 1236716096 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: HFS+ is optionally case-sensitive < 1236716099 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's configurable < 1236716103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but that breaks things and I'd have to reformat < 1236716109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus I like it this way < 1236716113 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea how much chaos it would caused if you changed the configuration param while there were files on it < 1236716143 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I like the description of the mac os x version of teco < 1236716150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like it was aimed at you in particular < 1236716180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236716181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% tecoc make 42hello.tec < 1236716182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*42EX$$ < 1236716192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makes a teco program that prints "Hello, world!\n". 42 times. < 1236716209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, teco quine without opening the script to read from? < 1236716219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shall pass. < 1236716222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1236716243 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MigoMipo < 1236716259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, to explain my 42 program: < 1236716263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, ^A is a literal ^A < 1236716264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1236716269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^Afoo^A outputs foo < 1236716277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :number<...> executes ... number times < 1236716280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EX exits < 1236716284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, of course, I inserts up to escape < 1236716285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's < 1236716298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :42 times { insert "^AHello, world!\n^A" }; exit < 1236716343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a pretty good esolang, actually < 1236716348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the concept of a text editor is a fun one to base an esolang around < 1236716380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mackerel Economics in Prison Leads to Appreciation for Oily Fillets < 1236716382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122290720439096481.html < 1236716385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(injoke) < 1236716448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, also < 1236716455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you start teco after editing a file and quitting? < 1236716458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it starts editing it again < 1236716461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it sees the backup file < 1236716466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no < 1236716470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% cat teco9054.tmp < 1236716470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :42hello.tec < 1236716562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sooo < 1236716563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1236716671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ais523: ping < 1236716677 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ehird: pong < 1236716698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1236716710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, NACK < 1236716768 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*NAK < 1236716777 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're going to do that old joke, at least get it right... < 1236716787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I wasn't following any standard < 1236716801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :April fool's day prank on programmer: Mess up internet connection configuration. Remove GUI configurators for it. Symlink all editors to teco. < 1236716848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.df.lth.se/~lft/vim/hanoi < 1236716850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Towers of Vim. < 1236716855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.df.lth.se/~lft/vim/mandelbrot < 1236716858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mandelvim < 1236716858 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what, you'd have to uninstall bash too < 1236716872 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, my GUI configurator is also the program that does the actual connection < 1236716874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Eh, just remove cat and echo. < 1236716886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, wait. < 1236716888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.se... oh my < 1236716892 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: echo's a shell builtin, and bash has cat as a builtin too but with different syntax < 1236716892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cp file /dev/stdout < 1236716901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Make teco their login shell. < 1236716916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's the guy who wrote life.b < 1236716917 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'd go into single user mode from the bootloader if you tried that < 1236716923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I see < 1236716931 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also wonder how you got access to my computer < 1236716936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, april fool's jokes are reversible if you're a sourpuss, zomg, how revolutionary < 1236716938 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* < 1236716965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ihello, world!$0T$$ < 1236716969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... reflex... < 1236716975 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1236716978 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that * was a correction star < 1236716982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know < 1236716983 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I was trying to delete an excess space < 1236716983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the extra space < 1236716990 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so nothing else showed up < 1236717036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : April fool's day prank on programmer: Mess up internet connection configuration. Remove GUI configurators for it. Symlink all editors to teco. <-- what gui configurator? < 1236717055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God, you people suck. < 1236717063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what do you mean? < 1236717081 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: seriously, though, given that for internet connection my configurator is the same program that actually handles the connection < 1236717098 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then removing the configurator would mean that restoring the connection file by hand wouldn't help me < 1236717100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, ha ha, you are 1337 and do not have any programs that let you graphically configure your internet < 1236717101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is that program? < 1236717104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are such an awesome linux user < 1236717108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so elite < 1236717110 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nm-applet < 1236717111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :u ownz b0xes < 1236717117 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, knetworkmanager atm < 1236717124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I just use config_eth0=( "dhcp" ) < 1236717125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's all < 1236717126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236717136 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1236717137 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nm-applet's broken for the specific sort of wireless the university has < 1236717150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's already been fixed in trunk, but for some reason they haven't sent out an update with the fixed version < 1236717157 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I use knetworkmanager even on gnome atm < 1236717163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, on my freebsd server it is more complex, it has a block of 8 statical IPs < 1236717169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't care < 1236717204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway 1) using a GUI configurator on a server in a datacenter is just silly < 1236717214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) at home I just use dhcp < 1236717218 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you have a /29? < 1236717219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't care, don't care, don't care < 1236717235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err probably, too lazy to calculate < 1236717278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is it with ehird when he realises how silly his comment was... < 1236717286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1236717291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I have seen this "don't care" pattern before < 1236717294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in similar cases < 1236717316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, surely you agree not using any GUI is sane on a remote server that you only have ssh access to? < 1236717321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's just you made a shitty joke in response, i responded to it pointing out how shitty and old it was, then you went and blabbed on about your network which i honestly couldn't care less about if I possibly tried < 1236717331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I could get kvm access... $20 / 12 hours < 1236717342 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but would you try, for me? < 1236717355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: maybe. < 1236717361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I wasn't making a joke < 1236717363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :..................................... < 1236717380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :congrats, you found the . key < 1236717386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way, ellipses have 3 .s < 1236717403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, and? < 1236717417 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only if you have a really small ellipse and a crappy ellipse algo < 1236717454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, and using eclipse to write it < 1236717465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Perl is written in C, so when the parser has figured out what you want to do, you're executing compiled code as fast as any C program. " < 1236717470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um. < 1236717477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that was silly < 1236717478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who wrote that? < 1236717481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where was that quote from? < 1236717486 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and did they have any clue how Perl works? < 1236717487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"samizdat" on perlmonks.org < 1236717488 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this now?!? < 1236717506 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl's implemented internally as a bytecode compiler < 1236717507 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds familiar < 1236717538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now where is that dd.sh page < 1236717622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, isn't it dd/sh? < 1236717641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://select.intercal.org.uk/dd.sh/ "dd/sh: The One True Programming Language" < 1236717642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1236717712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236717721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you can do 'stty raw' with /dev of some sort < 1236717839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Mackerel Economics in Prison Leads to Appreciation for Oily Fillets http://online.wsj.com/article/SB122290720439096481.html (injoke) <-- yes obviously, so what is the context. The joke makes no sense to me < 1236717850 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it wouldn't, it's an injoke < 1236717851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I told you it would not be an injoke. < 1236717860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore I won't tell you < 1236717866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you understand it? < 1236717873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he does < 1236717893 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you seem to be missing the fundamental nature of injokes, look it up < 1236717895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, `stty raw` uses ioctl, doesn't it? < 1236717920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed. But I assumed ehird got the joke since he pasted it < 1236717944 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION facepalms < 1236717949 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't facepalm very often < 1236717963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was be commenting on the fact that it was an injoke he didn't understand? < 1236717982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236717988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'd give up round about now < 1236718056 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-83-206.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236718059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I fail to see why you wouldn't want to *explain* a injoke that you do understand. Since you pasted it in the public channel < 1236718086 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if it were explained, it wouldn't be an injoke < 1236718099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why would that be a huge loss? < 1236718111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236718119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION facepalm < 1236718146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you are just being unreasonable... < 1236718381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is writing a TECO clone in dd/sh < 1236718390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you run it under bash, you can use /dev/tcp to use it as a kind of netcat :D < 1236718402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, wait < 1236718406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't use dd with /dev/tcp presumably < 1236718408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you specify the port number using /dev/tcp? < 1236718408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only pipes... < 1236718413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/dev/tcp/host/port < 1236718419 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clever < 1236718440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, it's not quite dd/sh < 1236718440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :save_state=$(stty -g) < 1236718441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stty raw < 1236718442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reset_tty() { stty "$save_state" } < 1236718445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 non-dd/sh lines < 1236718452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could run it without them, just need to hit newline a lot < 1236718458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you'd see your input twice < 1236718510 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you just want dd output into /dev/tcp, you can obviously just omit the of= and > it in. < 1236718523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236718527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is of=x always equiv. to >x? < 1236718539 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, not if x is /dev/tcp. < 1236718543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236718555 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be pretty different if x were /dev/tty, too < 1236718601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agh you have to assign it first < 1236718606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exec 3<>/dev/tcp/... < 1236718610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of using it as a file multi times < 1236718610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1236718623 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236718766 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? what's dd/sh? < 1236718772 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A language using dd and sh? < 1236718774 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, what else? < 1236718793 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be precise, it's the language created when you use sh and the only other program it's allowed to invoke is dd < 1236718808 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...The first person to make a miniature linux distro for dd/sh wins a copy of AsieCrypt, the only encrypter of images that can turn completely logical pictures into random gibberish and STILL decode it! < 1236718815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1236718816 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I will be the first person < 1236718818 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would be... < 1236718818 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, I suppose, itself recursively, but you never need to do that < 1236718822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for one, that's not even possible < 1236718827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for two, it's uninteresting < 1236718833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for three, the prize is crap. < 1236718834 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...if I had installed Linux < 1236718844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I suspect Debian webinstall plus dd would be enough to run arbitrary dd/sh programs < 1236718846 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for one, there are many Linux-on-a-floppy distros < 1236718853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: he meant a linux distro with just kernel+dd/sh < 1236718858 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some drivers < 1236718859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is patently useless < 1236718860 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for what it's worth, you could even do that with Debian webinstall without the package manager, there's hardly anything in that < 1236718876 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for two, yes it is possible (AsieCrypt), it's just shifted colors and good ole VideoCrypt < 1236718879 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I wouldn't call it completely useless, although admittedly not particularly useful < 1236718883 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for three, the prize is crap, I admit < 1236718990 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1236719006 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236719026 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think dd/sh would be turing complete pretty easily considering sh's capabilities < 1236719031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1236719033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sh is turing complete < 1236719038 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point < 1236719038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you need dd for non-trivial IO < 1236719043 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there is a turing machine for dd/sh < 1236719044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brainfuck style IO can be done with just sh < 1236719054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can trivially write brainfuck in sh < 1236719059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for file IO, etc, you need dd < 1236719060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm wait < 1236719062 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not trivially < 1236719065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you couldn't do substrings with sh < 1236719070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, you do need dd for IO then < 1236719072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but sh is tc < 1236719079 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tcsh? < 1236719082 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need I/O for TC < 1236719087 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see what I did there < 1236719089 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::u < 1236719090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierk: that's what i just SAID. < 1236719106 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do substrings with sh < 1236719107 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not easily < 1236719113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how < 1236719118 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1236719226 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is a reference for what standard sh allows? < 1236719241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :help < 1236719242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in bash < 1236719246 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236719247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gives you a full list < 1236719252 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash has extras < 1236719260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. < 1236719276 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. read -n 1 < 1236719296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, that would actually remove the need for my stty stuff < 1236719321 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: see if you can find a copy of POSIX floating aroung < 1236719323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*around < 1236719334 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, man for most shells will explain the differences from standard sh in a portability section < 1236719357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can deduce the sh standard from that < 1236719489 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure it's possible in just sh to do substrings < 1236719493 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you know a way? < 1236719499 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, ehird: ass < 1236719503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1236719508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, AFO. < 1236719537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol wut, "echo -n foo" is echoing "-n foo\n" < 1236719586 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :l < 1236719686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i.gizmodo.com/5167465/get-200-itunes-store-vouchers-for-260 < 1236719691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is pretty cool. < 1236719717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now... where's the code :D < 1236719813 0 :BeholdMyGlory_!n=arvid@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236719850 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1236719855 0 :BeholdMyGlory_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :BeholdMyGlory < 1236719865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* A Pentium emulator (just for the fun of it - with that you don't actually need the perl5 interpreter as you can install Linux under the emulator and ruin perl from it; of course, that would also run sh and dd, therefore allowing any level of emulation). < 1236719867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1236720025 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* To include only dd and sh, I would need to change BusyBox in some way < 1236720043 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* And that makes it completely worthless < 1236720052 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierk: BusyBox is entirely configurable as-is < 1236720062 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, I can disable certain commands < 1236720064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe it can be configured to only contain dd and sh < 1236720067 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or better, remove them at compile-time? < 1236720071 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, not only dd and sh < 1236720072 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, at compile time < 1236720076 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since that would be fairly useless < 1236720079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, I've done custom busybox builds before < 1236720085 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need SOME commands to maintain it all < 1236720086 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cp, mv < 1236720091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pseudoteco.sh: line 26: syntax error: unexpected end of file < 1236720091 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why cp? you have dd < 1236720092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf ;_; < 1236720103 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: at least cd! < 1236720109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unneeded < 1236720111 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1236720113 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just dd into /proc < 1236720115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierk: cd's a shell builtin < 1236720122 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all you need is dd and /proc and you can do anything < 1236720127 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sh < 1236720136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: is it actually possible to change the current directory of a process by writing to its /proc? < 1236720146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :change its in-memory binary to cd next < 1236720146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1236720147 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would so love it if it were, although it seems unlikely < 1236720151 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BusyBox has way too much commands by default < 1236720160 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least for this purpose < 1236720161 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierk: you are missing the point of busybox, then < 1236720165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, dd is unneeded < 1236720169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all you need is < 1236720185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kitten < 1236720192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact < 1236720193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even that < 1236720195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kitten < 1236720199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, no wait < 1236720201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kitten < 1236720206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :skips offset bytes of stdin < 1236720210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is kitten an version of cat that only does part of the file? < 1236720211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then copies amount bytes from stdin to stdout < 1236720220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: pretty much, but offset=0 and amount=-1 will copy all < 1236720220 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You know, I just want a distro with dd, sh, and some misc. basic commands < 1236720226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is it standard, or obscure, or did you just invent the name? < 1236720232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierk: try debian webinstall < 1236720234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i invented it all < 1236720237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed. The point of busybox is the point of having a statically linked rescue shell around... Hopefully you will never need it < 1236720244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, the rest of dd is unneeded for 100% io facilities < 1236720248 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it contains basically nothing but enough tools to make an internet connection, and a package manager < 1236720251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since if/of can be done with pipes, and soforth < 1236720256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then use the package manager to installdd < 1236720260 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*install dd < 1236720287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : qdd < < 1236720819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<- < 1236720819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1236720821 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree FWIW < 1236720825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: lines are not the fundamental unit of text < 1236720827 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, would you say the same argument holds for filesystems? < 1236720829 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if not why not < 1236720830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it doesn't make sense < 1236720831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb -> < 1236720836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<- < 1236720840 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I agree too I think < 1236720843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: because you'd have to have a bignum file length. < 1236720844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1236721356 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236721361 0 :neldoreth!n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth JOIN :#esoteric < 1236721369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's neldoreth? < 1236721430 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who's ais523? < 1236721440 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a regular here < 1236721450 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm a new one (: < 1236721450 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth was asking about Befunge earlier today < 1236721451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invented Underload, Thutu, BackFlip, and a few other esolangs < 1236721465 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also maintain C-INTERCAL < 1236721466 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coding something for school, if I understood correctly the few lines I read < 1236721474 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And remember them correctly < 1236721490 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we learned about c-intercal in the lecture, please < 1236721514 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, it's rare for lectures to mention intercal < 1236721516 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i had a little assignment to do in a esoteric language < 1236721538 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could have chosen between it and brainfuck, befunge or whitespace < 1236721540 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's any help, run your intercal programs with -byO and use the e command < 1236721551 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'll tell you what the expressions you write actually do < 1236721558 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's amazingly useful if you actually have to use the things < 1236721601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION notices that most other languages don't need a command to explain what an expression does, apart from C which has cdecl < 1236721611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that's data types not expressions < 1236721614 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for the advice - maybe i will try something out in intercal - but ive chosen befunge for my little program - maybe i will try more when there is more time for it < 1236721624 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whitespace is probably the easiest of those languages to use < 1236721628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :intercal's probably the hardest there < 1236721634 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge is a good one to learn < 1236721638 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just don't write it /in/ Whitespace < 1236721643 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[21:45:19] yeah i had a little assignment to do in a esoteric language < 1236721645 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;o < 1236721653 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can learn a lot of programming from befunge, actually < 1236721659 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1236721663 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really? < 1236721665 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd be what I'd go for < 1236721676 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: RPN and stack-based representations, for one thing < 1236721687 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastebin.com/m1aa54e4e this is what ive done, nothing special and it nearly can do nothing (cause i honestly had no idea what to write) < 1236721689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :properly understanding how loops work, for another < 1236721702 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I learned that working with a stack when you can only access the top two elements sucks < 1236721707 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: that's pretty < 1236721756 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D but nothing more, sensless in every aspect :D < 1236721761 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, that program starts out by inputting a character and comparing it to capital A? < 1236721773 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Not capital < 1236721790 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, lowercase < 1236721799 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason I did 9*9-4*4 not 9*9+4*4 < 1236721808 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah with a and b or q < 1236721809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and upper and lowercase A differ by 32, obviously < 1236721810 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a-9*9-4*4 < 1236721828 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: You still don't handle EOF, I see < 1236721846 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am just quitting with q now, if you type something different you can retype < 1236721863 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, a loop with an exit condition's always nice < 1236721866 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If EOF is given that's an infinite loop you've got there < 1236721875 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server" < 1236721887 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does EOF do in befunge-93? < 1236721895 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same as -98, no? < 1236721901 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a reflection in funge-98, but befunge-93 wasn't as picky IIRC < 1236721908 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont think that anyone will run this program with a given file via stdin < :] - i dont think anyone will run this program anyway :D < 1236721918 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Seems undefined, actually < 1236721922 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but its good for practice anyway < 1236721929 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, many programs assumed it returned -1 < 1236721933 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's probably what the reference interp did < 1236721934 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: I can type ^D (^Z on DOS/Windows) < 1236721948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: it certainly can be, it depends on the file format <-- yes, some are broken < 1236721951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and < 1236721958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grep and sed operate on *text* files < 1236721965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no one said they made sense for binary files < 1236721974 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1236721980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ^ way to do that without a newlnie? <-- depends. If bash yes < 1236721997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : qdd <<< "$1" < 1236721999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe? < 1236721999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1236722004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : qdd <<< "$1"$'\n' < 1236722009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depends on what you want < 1236722010 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: anyway, not even befunge, obfuscated befunge < 1236722029 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think fungot can run funge one-liners, but only fizzie can submit them because it's written in funge itself and the programs might escape < 1236722030 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'm not stupid, just not the only barrier, if it had arithmetic, it might be -1 too. < 1236722060 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why doesn't it use = or something for them? < 1236722071 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah we crossed obfuscated code too like the raytracer you can find on ioccc < 1236722086 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have a great teacher < 1236722103 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he is a funny guy though < 1236722112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if so, would you say the same argument holds for filesystems? <-- file systems *does* store length separately. Using in-band data for it would be very silly. < 1236722114 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Befunge is no fun unless it's obfuscated or in the shape of something < 1236722116 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236722142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I know, I was talking about using length-prefixed lines as a text file format, some filesystems used to do that < 1236722152 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Mycology? < 1236722164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ais523 notices that most other languages don't need a command to explain what an expression does, apart from C which has cdecl <-- C++ would need it... < 1236722165 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Quite obfuscated IMO. < 1236722175 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fun parts are, anyway. ;-) < 1236722182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Whitespace is probably the easiest of those languages to use <-- only with good syntax highlighting < 1236722186 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: it looks quite readable for a Befunge torture-test < 1236722200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you write Whitespace in a wimpmode first, then compile < 1236722205 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^style < 1236722206 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Available: agora alice darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc* lovecraft pa speeches ss wp < 1236722206 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::\? < 1236722220 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: by the way, are you submitting your assignment electronically, or printed? < 1236722231 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: electronically < 1236722233 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, pity < 1236722238 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with Whitespace, that would have been fun < 1236722239 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1236722243 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236722265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Yeah, I learned that working with a stack when you can only access the top two elements sucks <-- variables. You have sizeof(fungecell)*sizeof(fungecell) - program size of them. < 1236722275 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's not working with a stack now is it. < 1236722286 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm, major lag ;< < 1236722302 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, it doesn't suck if you can do things like dip combinators, but befunge-93 is sadly lacking in those < 1236722315 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dip combinators? < 1236722317 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in befunge-98, you can use the stack stack to do something similar but it's a bit unwieldy < 1236722333 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: "run this code on the current stack minus its top element, then put the top element back again" < 1236722338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : what does EOF do in befunge-93? Same as -98, no? <-- iirc undef, but I have seen push -1 as one variant... < 1236722339 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of this is assuming you have access to something other than the top two elements of a stack. :-P < 1236722343 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dip is a~*^ in Underload < 1236722350 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which only has access to the top two elements < 1236722352 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Do try and read a few lines ahead before responding. < 1236722359 0 :atrapado!n=nnn@cm19117.red91-117.mundo-r.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1236722367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reaches end < 1236722375 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can use dip tricks to get more < 1236722376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION catch up on what was said while he were writing  < 1236722381 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: dip implies that you can access more than the top two. < 1236722388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't < 1236722401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (a)(b)(c)(SS)a~*^S < 1236722402 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...bad insn! < 1236722402 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it does, as it is in itself a mechanism to access more than the top two. < 1236722414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (a)(b)(c)(SS)~a~*^S < 1236722414 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cba < 1236722421 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what am I doing wrong? < 1236722430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul (a)(b)(c)(SS)~a*^S < 1236722430 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bac < 1236722432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's better < 1236722445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dip is actually ~a*^ in Underload < 1236722454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: well, OK < 1236722459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: you write Whitespace in a wimpmode first, then compile <-- oh? < 1236722466 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes. < 1236722485 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236722487 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the whitespace wimpmode in question would presumably list each whitespace /command/ as a separate visible printable character < 1236722489 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: E.g. http://yagni.com/whitespace/index.html < 1236722494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and compilation is then trivial < 1236722499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: That's not working with a stack now is it. <-- true < 1236722506 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or http://www.burghard.info/Code/Whitespace/index.html < 1236722532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gah even more to read up < 1236722533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236722570 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: any way, my point is that dip in Underload can be implemented despite no ability to access stack elements beyond the top two < 1236722578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah yes < 1236722579 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in only four characters, in fact! < 1236722602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that is because you can expand the elements < 1236722602 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But where is the top element stored while the code is being run? < 1236722615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: in the program < 1236722621 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or on the call stack < 1236722624 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on how you think about it < 1236722626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you have more than a plain number on your stack < 1236722629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236722629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in ul < 1236722639 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: So there's an alternate storage location beyond the stack. < 1236722641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, you could do something similar in bignum Befunge if you had a mingle operator < 1236722651 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this case, another stack. < 1236722659 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: there is in Funge too, it's the IP delta < 1236722659 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you guys are programing in esoteric languages just for fun? < 1236722664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: of course < 1236722667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so. Befunge is like C. Pointer or Integer? No way to tell. Underload is managed. Because you can see data type < 1236722670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1236722671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would anyone program in an esolang for any other reason? < 1236722676 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know :D < 1236722685 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It can only store four values without x < 1236722689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well duh that is easy... < 1236722691 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And is a pain to work with < 1236722693 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because he has to, like i had to - but it was fun < 1236722699 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, esolangs do have their bright sides < 1236722699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, for the enterprise solutions that exist < 1236722700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236722710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really we need bexml < 1236722715 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: Befunge is fun, other esolangs not so much, in my experience :-P < 1236722716 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's way easier to learn BF by heart rather than learning the whole Java class library :D < 1236722725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then we shall take the corporate world with storm < 1236722731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if there's ever another OMGWTF competition, I'll enter it trying to make out that INTERCAL is an enterprise langauge < 1236722733 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*language < 1236722741 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: But on the other hand, learning the whole Java class library implies you can actually, you know, do things. < 1236722743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, "OMGWTF competition"? < 1236722745 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using INTERCAL will probably conflict with the requirements, but in the OMGWTF that doesn't actually matter < 1236722755 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the worsethanfailure Olympiad of Misguided Geeks < 1236722763 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it's back to being called dailywtf.com again now < 1236722765 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: yeah, i think whitespace/brainfuck are just painful to write < 1236722766 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, true < 1236722768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah... got a link to previous ones? < 1236722775 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was only one previous one, let me try to find it < 1236722782 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: Whitespace is okay if you use an assembler < 1236722789 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: But it's not particularly /fun/ IMO < 1236722802 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Befunge, for some strange reason, I actually do find fun < 1236722810 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://omg.worsethanfailure.com/ < 1236722811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too < 1236722820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I prefer writing *interpreters* for esolangs < 1236722827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much more interesting < 1236722828 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course that can still be offset by unsavoury tasks < 1236722835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or compilers < 1236722851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth, writing an optimising brainfuck -> C compiler is quite interesting < 1236722859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much more than writing *in* brainfuck < 1236722869 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the OMGWTF was all about writing programs that looked like they were generated via a bad development process < 1236722874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236722875 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not that interested in writing interpreters/compilers for uninteresting esolangs < 1236722878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1236722878 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it turned into a contest for ridiculous programs, more than anything else < 1236722888 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm someone gave me a link to the befunge irc bot now, are there some additional bigger projects/programs in these languages? (so more or less useful ones) < 1236722901 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOBELA is one that I've been thinking of implementing, don't really have much time now < 1236722905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the specification of the contest was "implement a clone of Windows Calculator, using one of these two provided skeleton GUIs written in C" < 1236722916 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: Mycology is the biggest Funge program, I think < 1236722917 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a trivial task, the competition was all about how badly you could mess it up < 1236722940 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: http://iki.fi/deewiant/befunge/mycology.html < 1236722944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah I remember reading about that contest being announced... < 1236722950 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1236722991 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: If you find a bug, please report it ;-) < 1236723004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth, cfunge does include some simpler example programs in the tarball. And some weird test programs < 1236723004 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1236723014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :half of which only make sense for cfunge < 1236723033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, not likely unless he write his own interpreter < 1236723033 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why? because they test things only cfunge gets wrong? because they test cfunge-specific features? < 1236723035 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: http://www.rcfunge98.com/ has some examples and links < 1236723045 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, RC/Funge < 1236723056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sort of has the opposite philosophy to Mycology < 1236723058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well some of them test undef behaviour that I want to behave in a specific way < 1236723074 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: How's that < 1236723079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, some are about funge109 < 1236723086 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"..." < 1236723096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and a few are just not in mycology but should be < 1236723106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: another good Funge link is http://www.quote-egnufeb-quote-greaterthan-colon-hash-comma-underscore-at.info/befunge/ < 1236723111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is one of the longer domain names on the Internet < 1236723116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ls tests/ < 1236723116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :concurrent-issues.b98 iterate-iterate2.b109 iterate-zero.b98 perl.b98 split-in-iterate.b98 text-output.b98 wrap.b98 < 1236723116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iterate-fetchchar.b98 iterate-jump.b109 jumpwrap.b98 refc-invalid-deref.b98 sysexec.b98 turt.b98 < 1236723116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iterate-iterate.b109 iterate-space.b109 multi-file.b98 sigfpe.b98 sysinfo-multi-stack-sizes.b98 turt2.b98 < 1236723131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, a few of them were crash bugs found with fuzz testing < 1236723139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the concurrent-iussues one < 1236723146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was ages ago < 1236723172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I know that ccbi were affected by a few of them < 1236723172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: Befunge-93 or Befunge-98, by the way? < 1236723179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the refc-invalid-deref.b98 one < 1236723188 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "CCBI was", unless CCBI has somehow managed to become plural < 1236723195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1236723202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I have two copies of CCBI here < 1236723203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236723209 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: first thanks for the links, will check them out - was not specified, just "befunge" < 1236723217 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If CCBI were affected by them" is correct but hardly seen nowadays < 1236723228 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neldoreth: write a program that works differently in the two, then < 1236723241 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's tricky. < 1236723246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1236723249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, not really < 1236723252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a hint: double quote space space double quote pushes two entries on the stack in Befunge-93, but only one in Befunge-98 < 1236723256 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, wait, I do it in Mycology. < 1236723257 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1236723270 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: :] < 1236723271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes exactly. And you could depend on a reflecting in 93 < 1236723278 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I still think Mycology violates the Befunge-93 spec by being too big < 1236723280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while it pushes 10 in 98 < 1236723300 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Quite possible, it's really not well specified < 1236723302 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interfunge fails because of that, and basically passes otherwise < 1236723322 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only difference from expected output is that it prints numbers with Roman numerals < 1236723324 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mycology wasn't intended as a Befunge-93 test suite anyway, I just noticed that I could so I did < 1236723328 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1236723330 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's a misfeature, not a bug < 1236723344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, kate: Edit -> Block mode (~ due to l10n), copy. Paste in new file. Save as mycolgy-93.bf < 1236723348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :issue solved < 1236723354 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah a sudoku solver, thats more or less useful < 1236723355 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's an easy enough issue, I did it with sed < 1236723366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how? I don't know sed well enough < 1236723379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: strip the first 25 lines to 80 characters, delete all the others < 1236723391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION knows s, d, p and q in sed < 1236723396 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's all you need < 1236723401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s does everything in sed < 1236723411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: strip the first 25 lines to 80 characters, delete all the others <-- um... ? < 1236723415 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should have no trouble writing a regex to delete all but the first 80 characters < 1236723432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 26,$d will delete all but the first 25 lines < 1236723434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well iirc sed doesn't support {a,b} for range < 1236723445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some versions support \{ \} for range, IIRC < 1236723449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1236723450 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but writing 80 dots is easy, just tedious < 1236723451 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? and grouping is enough to support {} < 1236723458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and error-prone < 1236723464 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 80 dots won't work if there're less than 80 chars < 1236723464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not with copy-paste < 1236723469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:04 AnMaster: so. Befunge is like C. Pointer or Integer? No way to tell. Underload is managed. Because you can see data type < 1236723471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just program < 1236723473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, indeed < 1236723473 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: then the s/// won't match, so it'll do nothing < 1236723475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the only typ < 1236723476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1236723478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the correct thing to do in this case < 1236723482 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: D'oh < 1236723495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not bash, no < 1236723499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has to be plain sh(1) < 1236723501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well the interpreter has a higher level understanding of it < 1236723502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either that, or < 1236723507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no < 1236723510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't < 1236723512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just have programs < 1236723513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could have < 1236723520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but same with befunge < 1236723523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no language-level distinction < 1236723529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236723531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, write a GC in befunge < 1236723534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you tell dd to copy-all-but-1? < 1236723537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that reclaims unused funge space < 1236723537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236723538 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Underlambda actually has fewer data types than Underload, they both have exactly one but Underlambda's is lighter-weight < 1236723544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: impossible < 1236723547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a separate GC thread < 1236723553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impossible unless you put restrictions on what the program can do < 1236723556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, indeed. For same reason as C < 1236723559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236723561 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You can skip at the start of input < 1236723563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but even more so < 1236723563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for an entirely different reason < 1236723563 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, nothing's stopping it revivifying a pointer < 1236723567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't know whether you'll access fungespace < 1236723572 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :via editing itself < 1236723572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C etc, you just traverse the heap from one pointer < 1236723576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to see reachable objects < 1236723578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't do that with befunge < 1236723583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err how so? < 1236723587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1236723589 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Using that and swab you can reverse the file < 1236723589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get bounds on the used area < 1236723589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236723593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using y < 1236723597 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, even in C you can write *(int*)0x480dacef, which confuses garbage collectors no end, but it's considered bad form < 1236723602 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is undef behaviour < 1236723603 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: And then skip from the start of the reverse < 1236723607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes < 1236723611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: swab is another command? < 1236723614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, in Funge that sort of thing's rather normal < 1236723618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no < 1236723621 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: conv=swab < 1236723628 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swap every pair of input bytes < 1236723635 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many Funge programs are there that hardcode p and g coordinates? < 1236723647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be a simpler way < 1236723650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, me, Deewiant, most other people? < 1236723651 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, how many Funge programs are there that use some sort of fungemalloc to find unallocated fungespace? < 1236723655 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Too Esoteric for you? :-P < 1236723659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, none that I know of < 1236723662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: no, just too tedious < 1236723663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: exactly < 1236723670 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why a Funge garbage collector makes no sense < 1236723670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway C programs have hard coded coords. < 1236723676 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: static variables? < 1236723677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err pointers < 1236723679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes < 1236723685 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but those aren't garbage-collected < 1236723687 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, fungemalloc sounds like a cool idea actually < 1236723688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1236723700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1236723701 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much better than Mike's silly C malloc, anyway :-P < 1236723702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a high level language specifically designed to target befunge would be fun < 1236723705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: agreed, there should be a fingerprint that does that < 1236723705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks for Mike < 1236723709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah good he isn't here < 1236723715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or we would have had REAL issues < 1236723718 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hhhhhhhhhhheheheehhhhhhhhhe < 1236723718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :allocating in negative fungespae would probably be safest < 1236723719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BFGC < 1236723721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236723723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what issues? < 1236723736 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: MikeRiley implementing a fungemalloc before we could write a decent spec for it < 1236723737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, a badly specced fingerprint for GC in befunge which didn't actually work < 1236723741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1236723742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :snap. < 1236723746 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, garbage collection? that would be worse < 1236723751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed < 1236723754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1236723762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I find mkry's fingerprints to be okay, on the whole < 1236723762 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although at least nobody sane would try to use it < 1236723763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he has a fingerprint for malloc() < 1236723763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but some of them are awful < 1236723768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :system malloc() that is < 1236723769 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: which one do you think is worst? < 1236723770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, the specs are simple enough to follow < 1236723776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there's one that I forgot < 1236723778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme look it up < 1236723779 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But ambiguous. < 1236723782 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from the one that violates the semantics of the langauge < 1236723784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*language < 1236723787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: only some of them < 1236723790 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that one's obviously worse in a language-lawyer sense < 1236723791 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: FNGR? < 1236723792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*worst < 1236723794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :others just specify blanket behaviour like reflecting < 1236723796 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Most < 1236723801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not IMO. < 1236723807 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Well he says "reflect on error" without saying what's an error < 1236723809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, reflecting on error isn't bad < 1236723818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah should specify what are errors < 1236723828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236723830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grammar... < 1236723832 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: that was the one < 1236723844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't remember which of FING and FNGR was the good one and which was the broken one < 1236723847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, FNGR is at least not badly specced < 1236723848 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: He retconned it to switch to the alternate semantics < 1236723857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are some fingerprints I have no idea what the hell they are supposed to do < 1236723862 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"When this fingerprint is loaded, fingerprints work like this." < 1236723864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some MACR or something iirc < 1236723885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :macro extension < 1236723886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's trivial < 1236723888 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :His botching of MVRS annoyed me < 1236723888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1236723889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rcfunge98.com/rcsfingers.html#MACR < 1236723893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Macros are simple mini-funge like Befunge-like subroutines that execute in a single tick" < 1236723897 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We thought up some pretty good stuff to make it work well < 1236723898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems fine to me < 1236723900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, he retconned that one too < 1236723902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236723911 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But he kept with his first implementation/spec < 1236723921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about TRGR? < 1236723927 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's just not very interesting/smart that way, I forget which < 1236723931 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236723939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, indeed < 1236723941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: TRGR is wellspecced < 1236723948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in the list below the instruction overview < 1236723951 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=arvid@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236723951 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyhoo, for this funge malloc thing < 1236723954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, again slightly retconned < 1236723955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The trigger table contains executable code for the new IP, the code for A begins at the trigger table vector, B starts at the same X one line lower, C below that, etc" < 1236723955 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do we need? < 1236723960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well stop giving me retconned ones < 1236723968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: M ( -- x y) < 1236723971 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) Something to specify an area as not to be allocated into < 1236723971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :F (x y --) < 1236723975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1236723979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P (x y x1 y2 --) < 1236723982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P is your #1 < 1236723987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q (x y x1 y2 --) < 1236723987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so M returns a block of what size? < 1236723988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236723988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :opposite of P < 1236723993 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: M (x y -- x y) < 1236723993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ah, good point < 1236723997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236724001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well, some way to return malloc a block of a specific size, getting coords back < 1236724003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :M (x y -- x y) allocate fungespace block < 1236724003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then free too < 1236724009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :F (x y --) deallocate fungespace block < 1236724016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P (x y x1 y1 --) don't allocate in this block < 1236724021 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah, I'm continuing from what ehird said :-) < 1236724021 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should have a realloc too < 1236724021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q (x y x1 y1 --) undo P < 1236724026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1236724028 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R (x y x y -- x y) < 1236724031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236724033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what Deewiant said < 1236724033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R? < 1236724034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tada < 1236724035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :realloc? < 1236724035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're done < 1236724036 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :realloc < 1236724036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eww < 1236724039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I would suggest unique names for the parameters... < 1236724040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, why? < 1236724047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because realloc is useful < 1236724049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, even better point < 1236724054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however < 1236724059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was typing out Deewiant but with x1,y1 for the second pair < 1236724060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's make this bigger, and move to a different part of fungespace if it doesn't fi < 1236724061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fit < 1236724061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then he said it :P < 1236724076 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest x,y for position, w,h for width/height < 1236724089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, iirc I remember a comment from boehm-gc saying "eww realloc, well we are stuck with it since it is in C standard" < 1236724093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something to the same effect < 1236724094 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose we could do GC as well < 1236724098 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :G ( -- ) < 1236724099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, how? < 1236724102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1236724105 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :conservatively < 1236724105 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Free everything < 1236724108 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1236724111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use large negative numbers for coordinates < 1236724117 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that are unlikely to show up in the program < 1236724120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1236724121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you CAN < 1236724125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do a precise GC < 1236724125 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe G (t -- ) < 1236724129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for both befunge and C < 1236724133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes really < 1236724133 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Free everything not touched in t ticks < 1236724135 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then look for numbers anywhere on the stack or in fungespace that are in the allocated range < 1236724145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you basically need to do what valgrind --tool=exp-ptrcheck < 1236724147 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: conservative would work, I think < 1236724148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :track every pointer < 1236724154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it is copied around < 1236724158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^ < 1236724158 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how can you tell an integer from a pointer in befunge? < 1236724162 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Hrmph < 1236724171 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bit expensive, that < 1236724173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well you could tell how the value from this fingerprint was copied < 1236724184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: who says fingerprints have to be cheap < 1236724187 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my tick idea is pretty workable < 1236724190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1236724197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't implement the GC bit < 1236724199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're discussing garbage-collected Befunge here, and you want it to be /efficient/? < 1236724205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would suggest another way < 1236724212 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't want it to be needlessly inefficient < 1236724218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A (x y w b --) < 1236724221 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Boehm-GC is conservative, anyway < 1236724222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :allocate arena to allocate from < 1236724226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey guyz < 1236724227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nopaste.com/p/arvgu9k9bb < 1236724231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote it. < 1236724232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ^ < 1236724234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, deallocating data just because it hasn't been used recently is mad < 1236724236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fully specced < 1236724237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ready to go < 1236724239 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But if you want, we can spec that negative values given to G do funky stuff < 1236724246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1236724247 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a Silly Emplosions idea < 1236724247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I disagree < 1236724249 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-1 can be your conservative collector < 1236724250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236724251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why? < 1236724256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it specifies all behaviour < 1236724257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, " A (x y w b --) allocate arena to allocate from" < 1236724258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236724260 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the sake of sanity I think we should agree that Silly Emplosions stuff shouldn't be ported to any lang but INTERCAL < 1236724261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest that way < 1236724262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead < 1236724264 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236724264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's stupid. < 1236724267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine is better. < 1236724269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so program has to mark areas to allocate from < 1236724274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, your is stupid. Mine is better < 1236724276 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think by default the arena should be negative fungespace < 1236724280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now say why your is better < 1236724291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and programs should have to mark which bits, if any, they're using < 1236724291 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :F (x y --) Deallocate block. <<< what does this mean? < 1236724293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine is better because the amount of manual fungespace usage is more likely to be finite, < 1236724298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: like free() in C < 1236724299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :than the allocatory areas < 1236724300 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Later allocations can use it < 1236724303 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"deallocate an allocated block of size x,y"? < 1236724303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you could have multiple arenas. As memory pools < 1236724304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, wait < 1236724306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for different size < 1236724307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1236724308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be x y x1 y1 < 1236724310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my idea < 1236724313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: deallocate the block allocated at coordinates x,y < 1236724318 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err k < 1236724321 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the size is known from the coordinates < 1236724326 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-109-020.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1236724326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed < 1236724328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1236724329 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it was allocated via fungemalloc in the first place < 1236724330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236724333 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Why not just have the arena be the whole space < 1236724337 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should also be a "Get size of allocated block" < 1236724339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, where is the meta data stored? < 1236724342 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: and overwrite the function? < 1236724344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, object pools? < 1236724345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK < 1236724345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nopaste.com/p/aunvNDw2J < 1236724347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fixed < 1236724350 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: in fungespace? fungemalloc can allocate its own bit < 1236724351 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's what makes most sense, but i dislike it not being mentioned and x, y used for another purpose too. < 1236724352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I eagerly await implementations :P < 1236724356 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You have to start by saying what can't be allocated on top of < 1236724361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and how can it know program won't Q it? < 1236724362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I did < 1236724362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see P,Q < 1236724370 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R (x y x1 y1 -- x2 y2) Resize the block x*y to be x1*y1, return new coordinates. < 1236724371 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also wut < 1236724376 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Yes, I know you did, I even said it before you originally :-P < 1236724379 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"the block x*y"? < 1236724382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think all implementaitons should have P,Q, but we should agree what the default arena is < 1236724385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes yes. < 1236724387 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: The block at x*y < 1236724388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: implementation defined < 1236724390 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that definitely means any random block of size x*y < 1236724391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be "the block at (x,y)" < 1236724402 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that's useless < 1236724402 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236724403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236724404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1236724409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not < 1236724412 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: if it's the point x*y, why not just give an integer < 1236724412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about MEMORY POOLS! < 1236724413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, my R is fine < 1236724414 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Implementation defined actually seems like the best idea < 1236724414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone? < 1236724415 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :programs would have to run Q then P in order to guarantee what they did at all < 1236724417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since only one block can start at one place < 1236724418 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Oh, heh. < 1236724419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with program defined ARENAS < 1236724422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: er, no < 1236724423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to ALLOCATE FROM? < 1236724434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are everyone ignoring this suggestion? < 1236724436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is* < 1236724436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you use any fungespace manually, use P < 1236724437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's just that you're using x*y rather than (x,y) for coordinatese < 1236724439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because it's shit < 1236724442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, i'll change that < 1236724442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why? < 1236724443 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: No it's not < 1236724445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because it's the same as ehird's, just with differnet defaults < 1236724450 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*different < 1236724459 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yeah, one can be implemented in the other < 1236724460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just do it by Ping everything then Qing your arena < 1236724462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*arenas < 1236724466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not really. It would be easier to implement < 1236724471 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that brings up a good point < 1236724474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because a program could P/Q in a complex overlapping way < 1236724475 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Semantics for overlapping P/Q < 1236724480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1236724486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nopaste.com/p/aPrF2K5xA < 1236724487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Updated. < 1236724489 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latest call takes precedence? < 1236724490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore I suggest non-overlapping areans < 1236724490 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: the newest overrides older ones < 1236724490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Undefined. < 1236724493 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1236724494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, no way < 1236724494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, not undefined < 1236724501 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newer overrides older is the only sane way < 1236724503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, fine. < 1236724504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to handle circle shaped pools < 1236724504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll do that. < 1236724506 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about multiple threads < 1236724507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236724514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well t is synced still < 1236724523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from interpreter point of view < 1236724523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nopaste.com/p/aAXmy9lnib < 1236724527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, wait! < 1236724531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: they share pools IMO < 1236724531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, wait, nevermind. < 1236724533 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If one essentially says 'I want you to allocate here' and the other says 'I want you to not allocate here' what happens < 1236724534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nopaste.com/p/aAXmy9lnib <- updated version < 1236724540 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yeah, I guess, so you have to work it out yourself < 1236724542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: whichever gets there last works < 1236724542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: the latest takes precedence < 1236724545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, if we have overlapping P/Q then you can count me out < 1236724555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is just too hard to try to fit < 1236724564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if one thread allocates a pointer, and another thread frees it, which takes precedence? < 1236724566 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I figured we'd count you out anyway, I know how you are with feral fingerprints. :-P < 1236724568 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why is it difficult? < 1236724570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the one that gets their last < 1236724571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*there < 1236724580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I'm fine with a simple suggestion as I suggested < 1236724587 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, obviously, I was trying to make it a rhetorical question so Deewiant understood < 1236724589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with allocating pools and allocating from these pools < 1236724594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kay < 1236724601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P and Q just flip allocatableness of a fungespace element < 1236724604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we're all agreeing here apart from AnMaster, who is boring as far as fingerprints go. < 1236724608 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't even a feral fingerprint! < 1236724612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Deewiant: Any issues with http://nopaste.com/p/aAXmy9lnib? < 1236724613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's feral about it? < 1236724617 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 'feral' is poorly defined. < 1236724619 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: reading it now < 1236724623 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well how would you try to fit an allocation in < 1236724627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds non-trivial < 1236724636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for arbitrary P/Q < 1236724638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R should read: < 1236724638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :R (x y x1 y1 -- x2 y2) Resize the block at (x,y) to be (x1,y1) sized, return new < 1236724639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : coordinates. < 1236724648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nopaste.com/p/aFetqtklgb Updated version. < 1236724654 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: my definition of non-feral is "could be implemented in the INTERCAL part of C-INTERCAL+IFFI+cfunge without modifying anything on the funge side apart from fungespace" < 1236724655 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Usually we've taken it to mean storing data related to the Funge state beyond what is stored in an interpreter without the fingerprint < 1236724673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: any qualms with http://nopaste.com/p/aFetqtklgb? < 1236724675 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Use w and h, please. :-) < 1236724683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure thing < 1236724686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1236724690 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still think GC would be fun < 1236724697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forget it. I'm going to do my own with same name < 1236724697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236724700 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: oh, OK, I've taken it to mean things that can't be implemented without tinkering with interp internals < 1236724710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because ehird is ignoring me because of who I am < 1236724711 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Say goodbye to Mycology compatibility then ;-) < 1236724716 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so implementing x in a fingerprint is feral, implementing a stack stack in an interp isn't < 1236724719 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Well, that's essentially the same thing < 1236724730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, anyway see my point above about how I think it should be done < 1236724734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm ignoring you because your idea is shit. < 1236724736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop being paranoid. < 1236724740 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I mean, my definition allows fingerprints to have internal state < 1236724740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, WHY is it shit < 1236724746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you haven't justified that < 1236724747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have already explained that < 1236724747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236724749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas as far as i can tell, yours doesn't < 1236724751 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it isn't general enough < 1236724752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no you didn't < 1236724758 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's no reason not to generalise < 1236724763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Deewiant: http://nopaste.com/p/aVFHswSKL < 1236724765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now using w and h. < 1236724771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(x,y) to be (w,yh) size < 1236724772 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why restrict the user to a rectangular arena that can't be changed over time? < 1236724773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*h < 1236724774 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: With internal state, everything is nonferal since you can just embed an interpreter. :-) < 1236724783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think of Q as being a befunge version of sbrk < 1236724784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sure can, allocate another arena < 1236724787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides the current one < 1236724792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: that's feral in a multithreaded program < 1236724795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :memory pool_s_ < 1236724801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what the plural s mean < 1236724803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...... < 1236724804 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you're altering state too quickly for the other threads to take steps < 1236724811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nopaste.com/p/au1ZCEs3i Easier to read. < 1236724813 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: can you deallocate them again? < 1236724819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If anyone other than AnMaster has comments, they're welcome. < 1236724824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Don't allocate fungespace in the (x1,y1) sized region starting at (x,y). < 1236724826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes, just empty pools first and call some other instruction < 1236724827 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: give me time to read one < 1236724828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/x1/w/ etc < 1236724830 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Presumably you can access the host interpreter's threads from within the fingerprint. < 1236724832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, see. it is personal < 1236724834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1236724835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than posting new versions so quick I nver reach the end < 1236724840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, you just have an idea about this fingerprint I don't care for < 1236724845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: oh, I don't assume that < 1236724852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, if you want, I'm happy to make it personal, as you're doing a good job of showing yourself to be an idiot < 1236724855 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't assume anything about the interp at all except ability to access the stack and fungespace < 1236724859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nopaste.com/p/axl96oLTab Tada. < 1236724865 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe my definition of "feral" is "requires knowledge of the interp to implement" < 1236724884 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I assume access to the entire Funge state of the host including everything in the -98 standard < 1236724910 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I.e. some sort of interface to all the internals so that you can implement any fingerprint. < 1236724911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, being able to have an interpreter-global state + be able to run something atomically compared to ticks would be allowed < 1236724915 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ah, ok < 1236724921 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thing it's a loose definition < 1236724923 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Without that, feral fingerprints couldn't really happen :-) < 1236724927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not sure if you can access other threads in cfunge fingerprints < 1236724933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm probably not < 1236724934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236724936 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: looks good; I would state that by default, all fungespace is available for allocation < 1236724940 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Something like that is what's intended < 1236724943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, I'd prefer the default to be all negative fungespace < 1236724951 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But it's really unclear and thus a fairly useless term in practice < 1236724957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'll make all fungespace < 1236724961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, no < 1236724961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236724964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll make it implementation defined < 1236724965 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Why not impl-defined? < 1236724972 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so programmers don't have to worry about changing P commands whenever they update their program < 1236724973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, in cfunge fingerprints can't access other threads < 1236724975 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: that's much worse < 1236724975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just FYI < 1236724979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no < 1236724980 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Why's that < 1236724981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be all fungespace < 1236724982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236724983 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because programs wouldn't be able to be portable < 1236724996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without overriding the defaults < 1236724999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nopaste.com/p/aSZv3hZFI < 1236725004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now gives all fungespace by default. < 1236725006 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, good point < 1236725009 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :put it this way, suppose in C malloc() could be defined to either overwrite your program, or not < 1236725013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1236725018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there was a command to tell it not to overwrite given functions < 1236725031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everyone would have to call it for every function in their program to be portable < 1236725032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, good point. And I have suggested a solution that ehird censored away < 1236725039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I'm censoring you by not listening to you. < 1236725043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know why *he* began writing the fingerprint < 1236725045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shut the fuck up and go cry me a river. < 1236725046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it was my idea to begin with < 1236725047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236725049 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if most C interps did the sane thing which is to not overwrite any < 1236725057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Omg, I am also an IDEA THEIF < 1236725059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: personally, I think systems should give sane defaults < 1236725059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get over yourself... < 1236725067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1236725070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P and Q are corner cases < 1236725070 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dislike your system because it gives the insane default of not working < 1236725072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, exactly. I should have written a spec without mentioning it < 1236725080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, so I couldn't steal your ideas < 1236725080 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Was it not ais523's idea? < 1236725081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then presented it when mostly done < 1236725083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is up with you < 1236725085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I dislike ehird's because it gives the insane default of possibly overwriting the user's program < 1236725086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wasn't even your idae < 1236725088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was ais523 < 1236725092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah < 1236725094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll fix that < 1236725098 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1236725099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, read scrollback < 1236725101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll change it to all fungespace outside the program or something < 1236725104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236725106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any thoughts on that? < 1236725107 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that would do < 1236725109 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 22:20:50 in your time zone < 1236725114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so < 1236725115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reason I chose negative is that it can't be written without g/p < 1236725116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all unused fungespace? < 1236725121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: comments? < 1236725122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but unused may also work < 1236725125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I'm sure I suggested GC first at least < 1236725127 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: All fungespace not in the rectangle specified by the file < 1236725132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that implies a malloc() < 1236725133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1236725135 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, there's an interesting problem here < 1236725137 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can write that in some more understandable way, I'm sure. :-) < 1236725143 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is to do with Lahey-lines, and wrapping < 1236725150 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realized that as you said there's a problem < 1236725154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Deewiant: http://nopaste.com/p/avRd8YmTS < 1236725156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Voila. < 1236725160 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happens if your malloc allocates space on a Lahey-line htat the program actually uses for wrapping? < 1236725168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point < 1236725172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be very bad < 1236725181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Interesting. < 1236725184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: thoughts? < 1236725192 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ability to mark a given Lahey-line as with P < 1236725199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be default < 1236725204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise programs would break like hell < 1236725208 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem's relatively easy to solve if you only use cardinal coordinates < 1236725208 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can use x to get on any Lahey-line < 1236725209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236725212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if program expands < 1236725214 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, but that's boring < 1236725214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have issues < 1236725231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and you couldn't say "non-cardinal wrapping undef with this fingerprint" or such < 1236725236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since program could expand < 1236725243 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: By default, only the four quadrants diagonal from the initial rectangle, and then we need an additional command < 1236725244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by by default, allocating only if you don't share an x- or y-coordinate with the original fungespace < 1236725247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you would run into issues < 1236725255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: saying "non-cardinal wrapping undef with this fingerprint" is bad anywawy < 1236725271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well ok. better wording needed < 1236725274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a nicer but unfortunately buggy solution to wrapping is to surround the program with semicolons < 1236725278 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, better concept needed < 1236725290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the malloced block could contain ; < 1236725294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that doesn't help much < 1236725296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :buggy both because a flying IP might jump them, and because a cardinal program might write a ; into the block < 1236725302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236725308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe just specify that you can't allocate on a lahey-line? < 1236725311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236725312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1236725314 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1236725316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that a program points to < 1236725320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1236725321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that came out awkward < 1236725324 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately every element of fungespace is on some lahey-line < 1236725327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236725328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1236725328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236725336 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and specifically enumerating every lahey-line you use would get boring fast < 1236725347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. < 1236725349 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :L (x y xd yd -- ) would do it < 1236725354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: hm? < 1236725360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that'd get too tedious < 1236725362 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For specifying a Lahey-line for non-use < 1236725363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by default, it should just work. < 1236725367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, would doing that for every cell in a 32-bit funge space be larger than G= < 1236725369 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can't, I don't think. < 1236725373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/=/?/ < 1236725374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not < 1236725380 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Btw, those should be general vectors of course, so it makes sense in Trefunge < 1236725383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway I suspect it would be "bloody large" < 1236725389 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess Unefunge is screwed with this fingerprint < 1236725395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: after we fix this problem, sure :-) < 1236725400 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: not if it doesn't try to use wrapping < 1236725420 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: True < 1236725439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that is 2^32*2^32 cells. Coords can be 2^32*2^32 different values. Wait that's a lot... < 1236725448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, actually working but feral solution: malloced blocks are untouchable by the IP as if they contained spaces < 1236725456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: god no < 1236725457 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like setting noexec on malloced memory < 1236725458 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's boring < 1236725463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1236725464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be fun to execute malloc'ed blocks < 1236725466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1236725466 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agree it's boring, and I'd like a better one < 1236725470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interpreter detector < 1236725472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :malloc a block < 1236725474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jump to it < 1236725474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I have an early draft for a NX fingerprint... < 1236725475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :record your IP < 1236725476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1236725482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I refuse to say anything more < 1236725490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since ehird would mess that up too < 1236725494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION facepalm < 1236725496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, an NX fingerprint would be nice whether or not we do this malloc thing < 1236725498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you crying or something? < 1236725501 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they would combine well < 1236725508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I stole the idea that wasn't yours and broke it because it wasn't your idea? < 1236725512 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be sort-of like abstain from INTERCAL < 1236725513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jesus christ. < 1236725514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no but I'm soon ignoring you < 1236725522 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, what happens if an already-malloced block is P'd? < 1236725525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*snort*. You call me a sore loser... < 1236725527 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it get reallocated? < 1236725533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well my idea was to cause exit/debugger entry on NX < 1236725535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: hm. < 1236725536 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it has to < 1236725539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reflect. < 1236725543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but ignore could be interesting too < 1236725548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as reflect < 1236725549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ignoring is much more interesting < 1236725562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nopaste.com/p/aPJgTXEWfb slight update; still needs a lahey-line fix < 1236725564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, more general: < 1236725569 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to say that reflection should be reserved for out of memory errors < 1236725571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well it was supposed to be a joke about real NX.... < 1236725580 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But then realized that that doesn't really make sense in Funge < 1236725585 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a fingerprint that lets fungespace cells be different when run as a command from when read as a value < 1236725592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, with mprotect() like interface < 1236725605 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of like those Perl constants that have different values as ints than they do as strings < 1236725614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and possibly minimal block page sizes < 1236725615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could fill an area with acts-like-space, or acts-like-r < 1236725622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to allow the interpreter to still be efficient < 1236725625 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whilst the cells still kept their orignal value < 1236725627 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*original < 1236725633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: stop it, you're stealing & ruining his fingerprint! < 1236725645 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I like my idea about this better than AnMaster's < 1236725650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no, ais523 is contstructive < 1236725652 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, you should design an optimizing compiler for Brainfuck, in Brainfuck < 1236725654 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster's is just a joke, mine's a feral esoprogramming technique < 1236725655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I suggest both < 1236725665 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yours could be implemented in mine using act-as-@ < 1236725671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it should be possible to combine them < 1236725675 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : yes < 1236725690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no @ != q and enter debugger of interpreter if any < 1236725706 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I know @ != q < 1236725709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, + mine include "read only" too < 1236725718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which your doesn't < 1236725724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, mine could also implement "write only" < 1236725728 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by making cells unreadable < 1236725735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so could mine. per-threads < 1236725735 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :having -wx-wx-wx permissions is occasionally useful < 1236725737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thread* < 1236725748 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although admittedly, I've never used it < 1236725751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so one thread could write and others only read < 1236725772 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why would you need that? encapsulation in Befunge is never going to be safe... < 1236725783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you don't want to see my *other* ideas then < 1236725787 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the way, with that mentioned, anyone up for trying to write a security fingerprint for Befunge that restricts all unsafe operations? < 1236725798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sure- Cfunge already has that partly < 1236725800 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the Safe module in Perl? < 1236725803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adding same on per-thread < 1236725805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be easy < 1236725805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's an interpreter, not a fingerprint < 1236725816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you could make the flag per-thread < 1236725819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite easily < 1236725835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and with a fingerprint to control it < 1236725879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but my idea was ring based, or optionally capabiltity based < 1236725900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both NX and this RING/CAP would be efunge only. < 1236725914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though SAFE would be trivial in cfunge < 1236725914 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good fingerprints shouldn't be interp-specific! < 1236725933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no, I just don't like slowing down the core of cfunge with checks < 1236725935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236725942 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even IFFI is worded so that it could be implemented in non-cfunge-plus-C-INTERCAL implementations < 1236725950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, of course it would be < 1236725956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just I wouldn't implement them in cfunge < 1236725960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only in efunge < 1236725960 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just nobody has tried yet < 1236725963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236725973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't even assume the existence of an INTERCAL implementation < 1236725991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, read what I said. You misunderstood me! < 1236726018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw IFFI will soon need major updates. cfunge is currently in code/API cleanup < 1236726023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :local branch only atm < 1236726027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't pushed it yet < 1236726034 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, STCK seems bad < 1236726046 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spec-wise, I mean < 1236726052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why BROK for your malloc() one? < 1236726053 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw < 1236726059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Memory BROKer. < 1236726062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It brokers memory. < 1236726065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although originally I said that because I read his stack (--) things upsidedown < 1236726066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1236726067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Broker < 1236726080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well ok. But still bad? < 1236726095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, wait what? < 1236726096 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still rather underspecified < 1236726120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you read B (v n -- v ..) as B (^u -- ^ ..) < 1236726122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1236726127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't have inverted v < 1236726147 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I misread it as (q ɐ ɐ -- q ɐ) < 1236726153 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1236726155 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1236726160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that isn't even same one... < 1236726172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's the one that made me wtf mentally < 1236726176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236726180 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also that made me realise I was reading it upsidedown < 1236726184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what program did you use to invert? < 1236726196 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.sherv.net/flip.html, the first Google result on the issue < 1236726203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also I assume you meant left-to-right or something like that < 1236726204 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION leads ehird to draw inconsistent conclusions about me < 1236726220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: BE CONSISTENT DAMMIT :| < 1236726220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1236726224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brain—crash— < 1236726249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it fails badly < 1236726251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :åäö < 1236726253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't handle them < 1236726264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ә!Ⴈ ʇouuɐɔ ! puɐ sʇʇnq ƃ!q әʞ!Ⴈ ! < 1236726266 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I wouldn't exactly call that a bad fail < 1236726273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also it fails badly on upper case < 1236726276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is probably worse < 1236726285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ɹәʇʇɐɯ ʎႨႨɐәɹ ʇ! sәop ʎoʇ ɐ s,ʇ! < 1236726286 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do /you/ know the unicode for combining upside-down umlaut offhand? < 1236726293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no < 1236726296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither do I < 1236726300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in fact I suspect there isn't one < 1236726305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although this is Unicode so I might be surprised < 1236726308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iʎsɐә s!Ⴁʇ uәәq ɹәʌәu sɐႡ uʍop әp!sdn ƃu!ʇ!ɹʍ ˙әɯ!ʇ әɯɐs әႡʇ ʇɐ sɹәpɐәɹ әႡʇ ɹoɟ unɟ ɟo ʇoႨ ɐ puɐ ƃu!Ⴈƃƃoq-pu!ɯ puɐ ƃu!ƃɐƃuә әʇ!nb s,ʇ! ˙ʇxәʇ әႨ!ɟoɹd ɹo sәƃɐssәɯ ʎɐʍɐ 'sәƃɐssәɯ snʇɐʇs Ⴈɐuosɹәd 'sәɯɐu uәәɹɔs ɹnoʎ oʇ әႨʎʇs sppɐ ʇ! puɐ әnb!un s,ʇ! ˙ʍәu puɐ Ⴁsәɹɟ s,ʇ! iʎɹʇ ɐ ƃu!ʇ!ɹʍ uʍop әp!sdn ɹno әʌ!ƃ uәႡʇ ¿sʇu < 1236726311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oɟ ʎɹɐu!pɹo puɐ pɹɐpuɐʇs Ⴁʇ!ʍ pәɹoq noʎ әɹɐ < 1236726331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it can reverse back < 1236726342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly < 1236726344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not fully < 1236726345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange < 1236726346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :p=o؛u=ɔ¿/ɔ!ɹәʇosә/sƃoႨ/ɟәu~/ƃɹo˙sәunʇ//:dʇʇႡ < 1236726361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236726363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, it worked perfectly < 1236726372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"are you bored witბ standard" < 1236726377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant the topic < 1236726385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1236726387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works for me < 1236726389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your font is effed < 1236726392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236726396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or w/e < 1236726399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ბ isn't h < 1236726403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236726405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you think so < 1236726408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are wrong < 1236726408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean putting it back? < 1236726411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes < 1236726419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it manages to put it back mostly < 1236726422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not h < 1236726430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you think our topic counts as a log link according to freenode? :D < 1236726435 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1236726441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1236726442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's enough to inform people that the channel is logged < 1236726446 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what matters < 1236726455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they speak upside-downese, yes :D < 1236726456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, it isn't very useful... < 1236726475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the c=n;o=d doesn't work lowercase < 1236726482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :/ɔ!ɹәʇosә/sƃoႨ/ɟәu~/ƃɹo˙sәunʇ//:dʇʇႡ < 1236726501 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It actually looks nice < 1236726506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236726506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ბttp://tunes.org/~nef/იogs/esoteric/?c=n;o=d < 1236726508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get that < 1236726510 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND it's copy-paste protecting < 1236726512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when converting back < 1236726519 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm missing the h and the l here < 1236726520 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you'd need it for something < 1236726524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: in a log link, why is copy-paste protection good? < 1236726526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, it fails on h and l < 1236726531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: annoys people < 1236726536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1236726537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it's a very ESOTERIC link... < 1236726539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is that good? < 1236726542 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1236726542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: do you consider annoying people a good thing? < 1236726543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw dammit ais523 you beat me to it < 1236726545 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not in this caseä < 1236726548 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :case* < 1236726550 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But generally < 1236726556 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, I agree about the esoness < 1236726559 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what it would take to get them out of some other font < 1236726563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok another idea < 1236726575 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it appears I do have fonts that have those < 1236726656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, to be the first person since the 70s to say this < 1236726660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like TECO < 1236726667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for it is a good editor. < 1236726672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :hå te te pe kolon snestreck snestreck te u en e es punkt o er ge snestreck ~ en e ef snestreck el o ge es snestreck e es o te e er i se < 1236726678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :/ɔ!ɹәʇosә/sƃoႨ/ɟәu~/ƃɹo˙sәunʇ//:dʇʇႡ < 1236726680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236726681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't break the TOS < 1236726683 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Ⱒ/sʍ˙➡//:dʇʇɥ < 1236726686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :/ɔ!ɹәʇosә/sƃoႨ/ɟәu~/ƃɹo˙sәunʇ//:dʇʇႡ < 1236726687 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: he didn't < 1236726689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err. It did make sense < 1236726691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: invalid character < 1236726698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it almost certainly doesn't count as a link < 1236726711 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: And the current one does? < 1236726711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, we had it spelled out before < 1236726712 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, a glagolitic capital letter spidery ha looks the same whether it's upside-down or not? < 1236726715 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*! < 1236726717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, no < 1236726723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, ais523's doesn't inform the current chanel is logged < 1236726728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine counts as a link due to a very trivial isomorphism < 1236726731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, i had "Logs:" in there < 1236726735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the link clearly demonstrates we're logged < 1236726735 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it got lost somewehere < 1236726740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, since when do you decide? < 1236726740 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: There's a very trivial isomorphism for AnMaster's as well < 1236726743 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Ⱒ/sʍ˙➡//:dʇʇɥ :sƃol < 1236726746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, indeed < 1236726750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: using logic < 1236726753 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... that tinyarrow isn't upside-down < 1236726754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Logs: hå te te pe kolon snestreck snestreck te u en e es punkt o er ge snestreck ~ en e ef snestreck el o ge es snestreck e es o te e er i se < 1236726754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: only if you know swedish < 1236726755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1236726757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't clear enough < 1236726760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :/ɔ!ɹәʇosә/sƃoႨ/ɟәu~/ƃɹo˙sәunʇ//:dʇʇႡ < 1236726763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fail < 1236726774 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Ⱒ/sʍ˙⬅//:dʇʇɥ :sƃol < 1236726776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :/ɔ!ɹәʇosә/sƃoႨ/ɟәu~/ƃɹo˙sәunʇ//:dʇʇႡ < 1236726778 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a better fix < 1236726781 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: And if you have a crap font, the title currently is a bunch of boxes. < 1236726784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I agree < 1236726789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think ais523's one is better < 1236726790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the arrow is the wrong way around < 1236726793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is just being silly < 1236726796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I just fixed the arrow < 1236726798 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236726803 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais's looks mostly like boxes to me < 1236726805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Ⱒ/sʍ˙⬅//:dʇʇɥ :sƃol < 1236726807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: OMG IT'S PERSONAL WHY DO YOU HATE ME < 1236726808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, not to me < 1236726815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, that's your job. < 1236726821 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ://[box].ws/[box] < 1236726823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, rather why do you think everyone else's topic is stupid < 1236726827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :/ɔ!ɹәʇosә/sƃoႨ/ɟәu~/ƃɹo˙sәunʇ//:dʇʇႡ < 1236726830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I didn't say stupid. < 1236726831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Ⱒ/sʍ˙⬅//:dʇʇɥ :sƃol < 1236726833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: what, that glagolitic capital letter spidery ha has been in the topic for ages < 1236726835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said insufficient according to the TOS. < 1236726838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :/ɔ!ɹәʇosә/sƃoႨ/ɟәu~/ƃɹo˙sәunʇ//:dʇʇႡ < 1236726841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Ⱒ/sʍ˙⬅//:dʇʇɥ :sƃol < 1236726842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :/ɔ!ɹәʇosә/sƃoႨ/ɟәu~/ƃɹo˙sәunʇ//:dʇʇႡ < 1236726844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Ⱒ/sʍ˙⬅//:dʇʇɥ :sƃol < 1236726846 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Quite possibly it was a box then as well < 1236726847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have more patience than you. < 1236726847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :/ɔ!ɹәʇosә/sƃoႨ/ɟәu~/ƃɹo˙sәunʇ//:dʇʇႡ < 1236726848 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you not recognise the specific box by now? < 1236726855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that proves you are immature < 1236726856 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Ⱒ/sʍ˙⬅//:dʇʇɥ :sƃol < 1236726862 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These boxes, they are identical. < 1236726863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Patience is a huge sign of immaturity. < 1236726864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :/ɔ!ɹәʇosә/sƃoႨ/ɟәu~/ƃɹo˙sәunʇ//:dʇʇႡ < 1236726865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Ⱒ/sʍ˙⬅//:dʇʇɥ :sƃol < 1236726867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :/ɔ!ɹәʇosә/sƃoႨ/ɟәu~/ƃɹo˙sәunʇ//:dʇʇႡ < 1236726876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, both me and ais agrees. Two against one. < 1236726886 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Ⱒ/sʍ˙⬅//:dʇʇɥ :sƃol < 1236726888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now ignoring majority is immature < 1236726890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :/ɔ!ɹәʇosә/sƃoႨ/ɟәu~/ƃɹo˙sәunʇ//:dʇʇႡ < 1236726892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Ⱒ/sʍ˙⬅//:dʇʇɥ :sƃol < 1236726893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :/ɔ!ɹәʇosә/sƃoႨ/ɟәu~/ƃɹo˙sәunʇ//:dʇʇႡ < 1236726895 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: fizzie: help? < 1236726902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Protect the right revision! < 1236726904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed I agree with ais523 < 1236726906 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop changing the topic, asiekierka is not even in the channel < 1236726914 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: we're having a topic war < 1236726916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am asiekierka in disguise. < 1236726920 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird is outnumbered but trying to win just by being more specific < 1236726924 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*persistent < 1236726925 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Ⱒ/sʍ˙⬅//:dʇʇɥ :sƃol < 1236726929 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine is clearly better < 1236726932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236726933 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it leads to the logs in sorted form < 1236726938 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas ehird's doesn't < 1236726938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1236726939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:15 AnMaster: indeed I agree with ais523 <-- imagine what IRC would be like if every person who agreed replied saying so every line < 1236726940 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get this one at all < 1236726945 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's because of the boxes? < 1236726957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, fix your font? < 1236726962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, we have someone who cannot access the logs < 1236726963 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: latest dejavu sans mono < 1236726964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :/ɔ!ɹәʇosә/sƃoႨ/ɟәu~/ƃɹo˙sәunʇ//:dʇʇႡ < 1236726969 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236726973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works too. < 1236726973 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For crying out loud < 1236726974 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: it's "logs: http://tinyarro.ws/GLAGOLITIC CAPITAL LETTER SPIDERY HA" < 1236726977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just upside-down and with more unicode < 1236727003 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1236727005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ | Ⱒ/sʍ˙⬅//:dʇʇɥ :sƃol | /ɔ!ɹәʇosә/sƃoႨ/ɟәu~/ƃɹo˙sәunʇ//:dʇʇႡ | hå te te pe kolon snestreck snestreck te u en e es punkt o er ge snestreck ~ en e ef snestreck el o ge es snestreck e es o te e er i se < 1236727009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works too < 1236727011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :/ɔ!ɹәʇosә/sƃoႨ/ɟәu~/ƃɹo˙sәunʇ//:dʇʇႡ < 1236727012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1236727014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236727014 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it does. < 1236727018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236727021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ | Ⱒ/sʍ˙⬅//:dʇʇɥ :sƃol | /ɔ!ɹәʇosә/sƃoႨ/ɟәu~/ƃɹo˙sәunʇ//:dʇʇႡ | hå te te pe kolon snestreck snestreck te u en e es punkt o er ge snestreck ~ en e ef snestreck el o ge es snestreck e es o te e er i se < 1236727024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now everyone is happy < 1236727027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can we stop fiddling with the topic and just leave it at the logs < 1236727031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236727034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes all variants please < 1236727034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a simple compromise < 1236727036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without all this bullshit < 1236727038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ | Ⱒ/sʍ˙⬅//:dʇʇɥ :sƃol | /ɔ!ɹәʇosә/sƃoႨ/ɟәu~/ƃɹo˙sәunʇ//:dʇʇႡ | hå te te pe kolon snestreck snestreck te u en e es punkt o er ge snestreck ~ en e ef snestreck el o ge es snestreck e es o te e er i se < 1236727043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION facepalm < 1236727049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you have your there too < 1236727052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before mine < 1236727054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't complain < 1236727056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: compromising normally requires at least one person to agree with you to some extent, although you have deewiant on your side < 1236727057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't care, I'm trying to stop this topic idiocy < 1236727061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1236727068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ | Ⱒ/sʍ˙⬅//:dʇʇɥ :sƃol | /ɔ!ɹәʇosә/sƃoႨ/ɟәu~/ƃɹo˙sәunʇ//:dʇʇႡ | hå te te pe kolon snestreck snestreck te u en e es punkt o er ge snestreck ~ en e ef snestreck el o ge es snestreck e es o te e er i se < 1236727073 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My Firefox shows none of the chars at http://www.alanwood.net/unicode/glagolitic.html :-/ < 1236727077 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: not reverting is generally considered a good way to end a revert war < 1236727086 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, I report you both for IRC 3RR < 1236727094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D < 1236727098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mine is superior on technical grounds. < 1236727100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has the correct ordering. < 1236727104 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so does mine < 1236727105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QED, can we all go home now? < 1236727105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D| Ⱒ/sʍ˙⬅//:dʇʇɥ :sƃol | /ɔ!ɹәʇosә/sƃoႨ/ɟәu~/ƃɹo˙sәunʇ//:dʇʇႡ | hå te te pe kolon snestreck snestreck te u en e es punkt o er ge snestreck ~ en e ef snestreck el o ge es snestreck e es o te e er i se < 1236727111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | Ⱒ/sʍ˙⬅//:dʇʇɥ :sƃol | /ɔ!ɹәʇosә/sƃoႨ/ɟәu~/ƃɹo˙sәunʇ//:dʇʇႡ | hå te te pe kolon snestreck snestreck te u en e es punkt o er ge snestreck ~ en e ef snestreck el o ge es snestreck e es o te e er i se < 1236727112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :solved < 1236727113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236727120 0 :ChanServ!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o lament < 1236727122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes we can now < 1236727130 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: +t please < 1236727133 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1236727133 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1236727134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1236727136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1236727137 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was wrong < 1236727137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :notehird < 1236727142 0 :notehird!n=ehird@208.78.103.223 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236727146 0 :notehird!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1236727155 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: comma separated? < 1236727155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, kick him under his right nick < 1236727160 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: you kicked both ehird and anmaster with the other as the rason < 1236727162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*reason < 1236727166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they both auto-rejoined < 1236727166 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i know. < 1236727167 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I think he noticed < 1236727167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ninja_ < 1236727175 0 :ninja_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<---- --------> < 1236727181 0 :ninja_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<<<<<<<<<<<<----------------- < 1236727182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes my bouncer has this channel as "sticky channel" < 1236727184 0 :ninja_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION the sound of silence. < 1236727193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, since I don't want to part by misclick < 1236727199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes this one is auto rejoin < 1236727206 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be more fun just to link you each up to the other's bouncer, and see what happened < 1236727214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what? < 1236727222 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you were both writing as each other < 1236727224 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to http://www.alanwood.net/unicode/fontsbyrange.html#u2c00 almost no fonts have those glagolitic letters, where do you guys get them from? < 1236727230 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I don't < 1236727231 0 :ninja_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'd get myself a K-line. < 1236727234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't see them either < 1236727243 0 :ninja_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe go to #freenode and spam goatses. < 1236727248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no. I'm on way more channels than ehird < 1236727252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's definitely a glagolitic capital letter spidery ha, Character Map confirms it < 1236727257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, on lots of networks < 1236727266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a total of 582 channels atm < 1236727272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think ehird couldn't handle that < 1236727273 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer UniView for such testing but yes, it is < 1236727273 0 :ninja_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have no way of knowing how many channels i am on. < 1236727277 0 :ninja_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1236727281 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how many of those 582 do you actually read? < 1236727293 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: What about the arrow? Do you have a monospaced font that has that? < 1236727303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'm using proportional atm < 1236727308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I do. You said you were only on freenode recently. Freenode limits to 20 channels, or 100 on special request to staff < 1236727310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so at most 100 < 1236727311 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd explain it < 1236727312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I see no reason it wouldn't be in a monospaced < 1236727320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is less than 582 < 1236727321 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://www.alanwood.net/unicode/fontsbyrange.html#u2b00 < 1236727323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, more than half < 1236727341 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :582? O_o < 1236727348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, some I need but don't read. Like #services on one network where I'm oper. I don't read it unless something unusual happen < 1236727352 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what do you actually do, the rest of the time? < 1236727361 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"..." < 1236727365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, surely reading 582 IRC channels would take up your entire life? < 1236727373 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was on 30 a few weeks back, decided that was too much and parted from about 10 < 1236727382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Also some I idle in and only ask when I need help. Saves "polite initial wait before asking question" < 1236727384 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on 9 atm < 1236727388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this includes ##freebsd < 1236727389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and such < 1236727393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean being in channels you don't actually talk in or read is stupid? < 1236727396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pfft. < 1236727397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although one's been dead for ages, I'm in it on the hope it becomes alive again < 1236727406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: which? < 1236727409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#interhack? #rootnomic? < 1236727411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#nomic on slashnet < 1236727419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236727420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, #eso? < 1236727422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236727424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ^ < 1236727429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I no longer have #ESO on autojion < 1236727432 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*autojoin < 1236727436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, me and comex are there < 1236727441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there doesn't seem to be much point until ESO actually gets running again < 1236727446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236727452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although if someone asks me over there, I'll join < 1236727455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that day I'll be redy < 1236727462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird just joined < 1236727463 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my general rule is to not join so many channels/queries they won't all fit on my screen at once < 1236727468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :tusho < 1236727470 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the tabs for them, I mea < 1236727472 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mean < 1236727484 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: mine too, but i keep stretching the window to overcome that < 1236727484 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: now you're on 581 < 1236727485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err, tree view > tabs < 1236727486 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, GUIs. < 1236727491 0 :tusho!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1236727500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: err, wouldn't it take up more space? < 1236727508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* ehird sets modes [#eso +b AnMaster!*@*] < 1236727508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* You have been kicked from #ESO by ehird (ehird) < 1236727511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on what ground? < 1236727511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As I said. < 1236727512 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine's a horizontal row of tabs < 1236727513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :582-- < 1236727518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, vertical < 1236727539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, with small font. Tabs take more space < 1236727554 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ISO C forbids modification of an integral constant < 1236727565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I never saw any reason you said < 1236727565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's forte++ < 1236727566 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236727572 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yep < 1236727572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why do I have to give a reason? < 1236727576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that's in freenode policy < 1236727579 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to word the error message as gcc -pedantic would give < 1236727587 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to give the impression that gcc without -pedantic wouldn't care < 1236727588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh. Oppression and censorship < 1236727589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, heh < 1236727589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1236727594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks for the clarification < 1236727600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: are you trying to be funny? it's not working. < 1236727616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. I'm sarcastic. At most. < 1236727666 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was hoping #define 582 would work but evidently not. < 1236727695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, identifier in C is [a-zA-Z_][a-zA-Z0-9_]* < 1236727709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cpp!=C < 1236727710 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, and I was hoping #define would not want identifiers. < 1236727720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, same for cpp... < 1236727722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1236727724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: cpp's pp-token definition of identifiers is the same as the main lexer's, though < 1236727724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read the spec < 1236727727 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so in this case it doesn't matte < 1236727729 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*matter < 1236727737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was referring to why Deewiant tried. < 1236727740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried something like that today < 1236727744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I know < 1236727746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not immediately obvious that #define's first parameter is a C identifier. < 1236727749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't matte, either, because it prefers to gloss over the issue < 1236727756 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, OK < 1236727759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1236727762 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :JVM segfaults, yay < 1236727763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was talking to AnMaster, not ais523. < 1236727770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it doesn't matte, either, because it prefers to gloss over the issue <-- what a horrible pun < 1236727782 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, I should really have done /nick oerjan first < 1236727786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236727795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oerjan < 1236727805 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa. I have a swatter now. < 1236727808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236727815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my client does nick tracking < 1236727816 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION grabs swatter -> < 1236727817 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1236727820 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION catches oerjan in a butterfly net -----\XXXXX/ < 1236727824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaa! It disintegrated... < 1236727824 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ehird < 1236727831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The swatter requires oerjan-nature. :( < 1236727832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Whoa. I have a swatter now. < 1236727834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun < 1236727837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236727841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: your client tracks nick changes? < 1236727847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, " my client does nick tracking" < 1236727847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236727851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only said that < 1236727853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... < 1236727858 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, missed that < 1236727974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SGNE... Hm < 1236727985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what sort of alarm is that supposed to be? < 1236728000 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the system call alarm() < 1236728006 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the SIGALRM singal < 1236728010 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever it's misspelt as < 1236728017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIGALRM maybe < 1236728019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1236728027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could check cfunge source < 1236728029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIGARETTE < 1236728046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIGALRM < 1236728050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIGNATURE < 1236728055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw I couldn't: < 1236728057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#ifdef FUZZ_TESTING < 1236728057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : alarm(3); < 1236728057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#endif < 1236728058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is all < 1236728065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man page had it of course < 1236728069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw < 1236728075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is saving one char worth it? < 1236728084 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "creat" < 1236728091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, exactly Why? < 1236728092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so it's easier to fit into an 8.3 filename, probably < 1236728101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C and UNIX are concise. < 1236728106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't like it, take a look at Windows. < 1236728108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that was a facetious response...) < 1236728115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, posix_spawn()? < 1236728120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :POSIX != UNIX < 1236728125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean the original unix spirit. < 1236728179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fegetexceptflag() ? < 1236728188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea what it is < 1236728191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is *nix < 1236728203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236728207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :math exception related < 1236728213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CONFORMING TO < 1236728213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : IEC 60559 (IEC 559:1989), ANSI/IEEE 854, C99, POSIX.1-2001. < 1236728219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not the original UNIX spirit < 1236728228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true. It is C < 1236728232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is blindingly obvious; anything older than the early 80s isn't. < 1236728234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it doesn't make sense < 1236728243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :identifiers are only unique up to 8 chars < 1236728244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C < 1236728245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1236728250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or did C99 remove that? < 1236728253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, only guaranteed to be. < 1236728258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well true < 1236728258 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's six chars, case-insensitive. < 1236728260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt any implementation actually does that < 1236728266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but C99 has longer identifiers < 1236728269 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And only for external identifiers. < 1236728281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes but C99 has longer ones < 1236728281 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C89 allows 31 characters for internal identifiers. < 1236728300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :teco woul dbe nicer if you could use something else instead of < 1236728316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, write a script to do it < 1236728319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :call it uh... < 1236728320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: just use xmodmap or the OS X equivalent to remap onto, say, e < 1236728321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? < 1236728323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :editor macros? < 1236728326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :teco wraps the terminal < 1236728328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EMACS for short < 1236728333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how about no :D < 1236728338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that'd stop me putting e into code < 1236728355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd use ctrl-c or something < 1236728369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you forgot os x probably doesn't have that < 1236728379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apple say, user do < 1236728380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236728381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it does. < 1236728384 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? it has everything else < 1236728390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all keyboard layouts are regular plist files < 1236728395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can modify them, make your own, etc etc etc < 1236728397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1236728399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1236728401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are apps to make it even easier (point and click) < 1236728403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no GUI though < 1236728409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well third party ones < 1236728409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are gui apps to make it easier < 1236728419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's such a rare operation that not including a gui for it isn't exactly unsurprising < 1236728425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does ubuntu ship with an editor for keyboard layouts? < 1236728427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well true < 1236728452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm disappointed that N repeats X N times in TECO. That's way too simple. < 1236728453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, does OS X include a good package manager that can be used to get lots of stuff like font editors and such btw? < 1236728460 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1236728477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how do you do that for non-fixed N? < 1236728478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MacPorts is semi-official and a few clicks away, but it's mostly useful for CLI apps. < 1236728497 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Abandonando" < 1236728498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't know. < 1236728508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yet < 1236728508 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: why would you need MacPorts to do nonfixed loops in TECO? < 1236728509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*2+2<^AHello^A>$$ < 1236728509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HelloHelloHelloHello* < 1236728511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like that. < 1236728513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: heh < 1236728517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ... < 1236728524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too good a message combination to ignore < 1236728526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you need multi tasking < 1236728537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh a joke < 1236728539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1236728560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should scientifically prove that AnMaster can never recognize a joke first time round, no matter how blatant :D < 1236728571 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Ubuntu doesn't ship with such an editor, but I found one in the repos in about 20 seconds of searching < 1236728575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he has no funny bone < 1236728576 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was my guess < 1236728586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I found one in 15 seconds with google last time I wanted to do that :P < 1236728590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I can. I enjoy discworld books < 1236728598 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: for Mac OS X? < 1236728602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how do we know you don't consider them non-fiction? < 1236728603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1236728607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1236728612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/search?client=safari&rls=en-us&q=os+x+keyboard+layout+editor&ie=UTF-8&oe=UTF-8 < 1236728615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first one is Ukelele < 1236728618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I used and is great < 1236728619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well they are in a way a parody of the real world. < 1236728626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but fictional of course < 1236728630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found xkeycaps, which I haven't tried to use < 1236728637 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or indeed install < 1236728641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, we *don't* live on A'Tuin < 1236728644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(spelling?) < 1236728647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes we do! < 1236728675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*1/0<^Awtf^A>$$ < 1236728675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* < 1236728678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This just in: 1/0 is 0. < 1236728680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hah. Actually I do believe we have been in space. And live on a world. Lets call it roundworld. < 1236728684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore, 0*0=1. < 1236728703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um Funge has 1/0 = 0 too < 1236728713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's silly. < 1236728715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :98 that is < 1236728718 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not prompt the user? < 1236728720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no. 93 is sillyt < 1236728722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :silly* < 1236728726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :93 is prompt user < 1236728727 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO, 10/ should be a reflection in 98 < 1236728733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/0 = 0 is probably one of the least useful values you can give < 1236728737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, specs disagree < 1236728742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"should" < 1236728742 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know < 1236728743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not is < 1236728749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, exactly < 1236728752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about what IMO the specs should say, not what they do so < 1236728755 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*do say < 1236728773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PUT IT IN FUNGE-109 < 1236728773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the INTERCAL standard library returns 0 on division by 0 < 1236728774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1236728781 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is strange as it errors on overflow when doing addition < 1236728784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to write cat in teco. Hm. < 1236728786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe 109 should use option packages < 1236728793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like posix does < 1236728794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236728800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah bad idea < 1236728827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(man posixoptions on a linux system, *bsd doesn't have the man page iirc. Go check your local POSIX copy) < 1236728836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww, ER/dev/stdout$$ doesn't work < 1236728837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1236728842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does have a release copy of POSIX.1-2008 < 1236728847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236728852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has special stdin/stdout support it seems < 1236728853 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how much did it cost you < 1236728857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, 0 < 1236728873 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that one available for free, then? < 1236728881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, "free to members" < 1236728890 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're a member of posix? < 1236728900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that is free yes. Interested party < 1236728903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :means you are on a mailing list < 1236728906 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1236728911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is quite different from "gold member" < 1236728913 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so can anyone get a copy just by joining a mailing list? < 1236728919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, basically yes < 1236728933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you are a member of austin group mailing list < 1236728937 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why anyone buys it, if that is the case < 1236728940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236728942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/you/I/ < 1236728949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to have identity problems < 1236728951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*IIHello, world!$@I $ @I $ $$ < 1236728973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well it is a bit hard to find. < 1236728988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(inserts IHello, world!, you could also just do @I/IHello, world!/@I//, but that's less fun) < 1236729005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it isn't on the member area of austin group. You can only find the last draft there < 1236729018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you have to use the same login on the main opengroup site in the bookstore section < 1236729019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, V = 0TT < 1236729020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's nice to know < 1236729022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get it for free < 1236729025 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, drafts are more fun to read than the actual standard < 1236729042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? There is one useful one that is a diff against the previous version < 1236729049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in pdf < 1236729070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, all of posix in one pdf make jack swap trash < 1236729086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pfft, how big is it? < 1236729087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pdf < 1236729087 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? is your PDF reader bloated? < 1236729093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 3872 pages < 1236729096 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suddenly wonders if PDF is streamable < 1236729096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in megs < 1236729107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14 MB < 1236729111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pfft < 1236729114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14 is pretty small < 1236729119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most people have 14MB memory... < 1236729120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 14MB pdf would be like... 50MB in memory < 1236729123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(parsed) < 1236729127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I suspect kpdf renders badly < 1236729138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well. it isn't "optimised" one < 1236729140 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I normally use Evince, although I have kpdf and xpdf here too < 1236729142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to pdfinfo < 1236729152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I have firefox running < 1236729155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Preview.app renders pdfs faster than just about anything that isn't xpdf < 1236729164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the result is swap trash < 1236729167 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I didn't realise xpdf was that fast < 1236729172 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is 3872 pages? < 1236729173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might not be < 1236729180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, POSIX. As PDF < 1236729185 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: slightly smaller than an OOXML < 1236729186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has an x in the name, so I get the impression of a ridiculously fast but useless program < 1236729192 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and about 2/5 the size of OOXML + corrections < 1236729193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, an OOXML < 1236729195 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool. < 1236729198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the best measure of size ever < 1236729210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1236729239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X/Open Curses Issue 4 < 1236729241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is nice too < 1236729250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the pdf is fail < 1236729252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no index < 1236729275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or yes an index. "Page 1" "Page 2" < 1236729276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is it < 1236729284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 316 pages in total really < 1236729316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hereby officially found the Esolanger's TECO User Group. < 1236729317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, Issue 4, version 2 < 1236729323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone who uses TECO for writing esoprograms is welcome. < 1236729339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I suggest you should require teco as main editor < 1236729344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whoa, TECO even escapes its output for you < 1236729345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*0I$$ < 1236729346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*0T$$ < 1236729348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^@* < 1236729350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so friendly! < 1236729363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the programs must be written in TECO < 1236729367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, " Anyone who uses TECO for writing esoprograms is welcome." <-- Using TECO as editor to write befunge? < 1236729379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236729383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, using TECO as an editor to write TECO programs that don't just edit text. < 1236729391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why? < 1236729391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although using TECO for _anything_ probably qualifies. < 1236729396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1236729398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why write in esolangs? < 1236729402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's fun. < 1236729414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no. Why not teco for main editor < 1236729422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without writing non-text editing < 1236729429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then you said it qualifies too < 1236729437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then couldn't be admitted < 1236729449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1236729469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use teco as my main editor < 1236729479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Fill up the screen with an indeterminate amount of 'a's: ^B<^Aa^A>" < 1236729483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you missed "I" < 1236729483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236729487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(^B Operating-system dependent encoding of current date < 1236729487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RT-11: (((month*32)+day)*32)+year-1972 < 1236729488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains it < 1236729489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RSTS/E: ((year-1970)*1000)+day within year < 1236729491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RSX-11: ((year-1900)*16+month)*32+day) < 1236729504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16+month? < 1236729511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236729517 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, ((year-1900)*16)+month < 1236729523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that last one look almost like befunge... < 1236729524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*32+day < 1236729525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236729525 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still, it's a bit strange < 1236729529 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236729533 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's using bitshifts < 1236729535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236729539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to speed up the arithmetic slightly < 1236729542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh yes < 1236729546 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whilst making it harder to compare dates < 1236729554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : stack_push(pushStack, (funge_cell)(curTime->tm_year * 256 * 256 + (curTime->tm_mon + 1) * 256 + curTime->tm_mday)); < 1236729558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : stack_push(pushStack, (funge_cell)(curTime->tm_hour * 256 * 256 + curTime->tm_min * 256 + curTime->tm_sec)); < 1236729573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I let compiler optimise. It is smart enough < 1236729586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A start on cat: < 1236729589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^T<^Aa^A> < 1236729607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Upon execution, reads one char from the terminal (as soon as you hit it) and outputs a number of as corresponding to its ascii code. < 1236729615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that looks like a Japanese smiley on steroids < 1236729636 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, ^A is a smiley face in IBM-extended < 1236729646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no... not that way < 1236729647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1236729651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^<^_^> < 1236729654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1236729654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we know < 1236729656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we know < 1236729664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why repeat < 1236729673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you continued :P < 1236729675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ^<^_^> < 1236729675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : or such < 1236729675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : we know < 1236729675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : we know < 1236729676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong < 1236729683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :network lag, heard of it? < 1236729691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes, you haven't though < 1236729701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have seen that it was close enough to have lag risk < 1236729715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of being rude < 1236729721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't rude. < 1236729726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TECO "Lock screen" mode: <>$$ (Password is Ctrl-C) < 1236729738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err hah < 1236729749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not very secure < 1236729752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better: < 1236729754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<^A < 1236729754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I guess against noobs < 1236729756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^A>$$ < 1236729758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm? < 1236729762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clears screen indefinitely. < 1236729765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236729767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :until ^C < 1236729770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. outputs infinite newlines. < 1236729796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also !a!Oa$$ < 1236729799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!foo! = label < 1236729803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Olabel$ = jump < 1236729822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm nice < 1236729838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how do you escape an escape char? < 1236729849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use a different delimiter < 1236729853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah righ < 1236729853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@O/label/$ < 1236729856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right* < 1236729857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@I/foo/ < 1236729858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1236729876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, any way to include every char in a string? < 1236729885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess concat or such? < 1236729888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do it as two strings. < 1236729897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and concat? < 1236729910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's no contact. < 1236729914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1236729915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just do @I/.../ @I!/! < 1236729950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow < 1236729954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TECO uses " as open loop and ' as end loop < 1236729967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you should put that in intercal < 1236729972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236729976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are already in use < 1236729982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1236729982 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the comparison to INTERCAL got me too < 1236729987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's never stopped it before < 1236729994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean < 1236729995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :already in use? < 1236730000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also where is the guide to teco? < 1236730001 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you forgot about INTERCAL parens < 1236730003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you use < 1236730006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://web.archive.org/web/20080207025702/http://zane.brouhaha.com/~healyzh/teco/TecoPocketGuide.html < 1236730010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, i was augmenting them < 1236730017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: & http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Text_Editor_and_Corrector < 1236730025 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't /think/ it leads to an ambiguous grammar < 1236730029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& playing around in the console of http://almy.us/teco.html < 1236730042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, more than already? < 1236730052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, since " *is* already ambig. < 1236730056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1236730128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I can't see myself using ed any more < 1236730212 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you have TECO? < 1236730221 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not ambiguous, just requires infinite lookahead to parse correctly < 1236730257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: bingo < 1236730275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well true < 1236730285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need to figure out how to write scripts and init files etc < 1236730463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.charleston.net/news/2009/mar/07/its_big_guy_vs_little_guy74198/ < 1236730464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, wow. < 1236730527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you have a teco there? < 1236730545 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not on me < 1236730626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, ! label ! doubles as a comment. < 1236730662 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know < 1236730673 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! is toggle-comment if your comments are unlabelly enough < 1236730677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, I have to put a file called TECO.INI in ~/ to get it to recognize it < 1236730710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wow at that link too < 1236730717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nice. In upper case? < 1236730724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hfs+ is case insensitive < 1236730727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1236730732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the program should check < 1236730734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what it got < 1236730735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make sure < 1236730751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders adding that to cfunge: < 1236730761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% mung < 1236730762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?How can I MUNG nothing? < 1236730765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a beautiful error < 1236730772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, all systems should respond to `mung` with that < 1236730782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no matter if they have a TECO or not < 1236730804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (strcmp(programname,filename) != 0) { fputs("Cfunge is case sensitive for file names\n", stderr); exit(1); } < 1236730807 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about that? < 1236730816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what does mung do? < 1236730827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "Cfunge"? how ironic. < 1236730836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It MUNGs Until No Good. (Runs a TECO batch script.) < 1236730837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes. It was intentional < 1236730864 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean, case sensitive for file names? < 1236730888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, OS X will give you "foo.bf" when you request "FOO.bf" < 1236730901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I planned to reverse that ;) < 1236730905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird:~/Code/scraps/2009-03] % tecoc make hello.tec < 1236730905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*@I/^AHello, world! < 1236730906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^A$EX/$EX$$ < 1236730908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird:~/Code/scraps/2009-03] % mung hello.tec < 1236730910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, world! < 1236730917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it'll give FoO.bf if you had named it that < 1236730918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: It MUNGs Until No Good. (Runs a TECO batch script.) <-- DON'T GIVE UP < 1236730926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, exactly < 1236730934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what about that snippet of intercal < 1236730946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wow < 1236730947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "until no good" sounded so intercal-y < 1236730948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the TECO manual! < 1236730952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1236730953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, WHERE!? < 1236730955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Copyright (C) 1979, 1985 TECO SIG < 1236730959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://almy.us/files/tecodoc.zip < 1236730960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :teco.doc < 1236730964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(its plaintext) < 1236730977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION makes a TECO shrine < 1236730984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, a listing says "Long filenames are supported" < 1236730987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236730988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1236730991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth < 1236730996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS long filenames < 1236731000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange zip < 1236731001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The contents: "Yes, long file names are supported in this version of TECO!" < 1236731006 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236731075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if you go TECO I should go Genera. Have to get around testing it < 1236731080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get around to* < 1236731089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, genera just uses an emacs-alike < 1236731102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and emacs is teco lookalike? < 1236731112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was < 1236731114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1236731130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gnu emacs is quite far from it < 1236731152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : If you include unusual commands in your initialization file, you < 1236731152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : would be prudent to surround such commands with the ? command. < 1236731154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : This causes TECO to type the commands out when they are executed < 1236731156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (see section 5.18.4). You should also print an informative < 1236731158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : message on the terminal reminding other users that this version < 1236731160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : of TECO has been customized. < 1236731162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"You know, in case a burglar enters your house and starts teco." < 1236731173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236731180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multi-user single login? < 1236731187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People using your terminal. < 1236731190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not uncommon in the 80s. < 1236731195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm < 1236731204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wouldn't they have separate logins? < 1236731221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Logging out and in would be a pain. < 1236731225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1236731229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember, really slow. < 1236731229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no fast user switching < 1236731252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which microsoft introduced as "new in XP" but Linux and other *nix had for ages before < 1236731272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION switches vt < 1236731273 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fast user switching is a ridiculous name for the term, anyway < 1236731279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just the ability to have multiple graphical VTs < 1236731283 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :logged in as different people < 1236731285 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on one computer < 1236731294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell that to john q public < 1236731303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes, it's all about the advertising < 1236731306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes. I used to use 2 graphical VTs ages ago < 1236731308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fast user switching: you can switch between users without logging in and out < 1236731313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple < 1236731328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :universal binary ("dual-architechture Mach-O binary"): it works on powerpc and intel macs. < 1236731329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes I could do it on Linux for ages < 1236731336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm talking about terminology with ais523 < 1236731343 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, that description really doesn't do it for the general public either < 1236731346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok dual arch... < 1236731349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the without logging in and out < 1236731350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that isn't common in ELF < 1236731352 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would they want to do that? < 1236731353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik < 1236731353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sure it does < 1236731357 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just makes it harder to shut down the computer < 1236731365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, I was with a couple of general public ages ago < 1236731368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, OS X has promoted multiple users from the start < 1236731371 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who were thinking about it < 1236731377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's windows thinking, probably < 1236731383 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the problem was they were just hitting switch user not logout by mistake when they wanted to logout < 1236731386 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, Windows thinking < 1236731388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it just makes it harder to shut down the computer <-- ? < 1236731395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: think about it from a user with one account < 1236731398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 00:29:55 up 38 days, 9:44, 35 users, load average: 0.15, 0.17, 0.18 < 1236731399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :log out just lets them < 1236731399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236731400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) log back in < 1236731402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) shut down < 1236731404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would they want to log out? < 1236731411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would they want to shutdown? < 1236731412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(RHETORICAL QUESTION RHETORICAL QUESTION RHETORICAL QUESTION) < 1236731412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they couldn't figure out what the difference was, or why they wouldn't want to log out to let someone else use the computer < 1236731419 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because of saving electricity, of course < 1236731420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also RHETORICAL < 1236731424 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, it's bad to leave computers on overnight < 1236731434 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: and switch user is even more useless on a single-person computer than log out < 1236731436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well ok, most people don't run BOINC < 1236731440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :during night < 1236731448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but what about suspend to disk < 1236731453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah, that will be so useful when the planet dies out < 1236731454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot what windows call it < 1236731458 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hibernate? only when they're in the middle of something < 1236731459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more useless seti results! < 1236731467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ais523: I leave mine on standby overnight. All the startup speed, much less power usage.) < 1236731476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no, I run folding at home < 1236731479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I shut this down, but then, it's a laptop < 1236731481 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses boinc too < 1236731485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has folding at home got any real results yet? < 1236731490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to run climateprediction < 1236731506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not that I remember. But I don't check their website really < 1236731516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: also, why do you use a proprietary program, ey? < 1236731525 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, recently one of them was complaining about not knowing how to move a file from a USB stick to a directory in Windows < 1236731534 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that confuses me, I thought it was a simple operation even in Windows... < 1236731541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, running BOINC overnight would be fucking crazy on this < 1236731546 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems they couldn't figure out how to open two graphical directory entries at once < 1236731549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since the fans would spin to full speed due to 200% CPU usage < 1236731562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boinc is LGPL-2.1 < 1236731564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and in future (post upgrade), the _two_ fans will go bezerk due to 800% CPU usage...) < 1236731568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(good luck sleeping through that!) < 1236731570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just checked < 1236731591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, my system has constant speed fans < 1236731614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my system's fans are pretty much always either off or so low I can't hear them without trying < 1236731622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine a Mac Pro's fans are rather powerful < 1236731625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ I sleep in a separate room due to two small rooms and not being able to fit desk and bed in same room < 1236731640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it occur to anyone that fans are kind of a hack solution to the "our hardware runs hot" problem? :D < 1236731651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes. < 1236731654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get water cooling < 1236731661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think apple offers that < 1236731672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, iirc they did on some G5 iirc? < 1236731682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1236731689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for years, though, then < 1236731691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the 8 core Mac Pro G5 or something < 1236731692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1236731709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've seen pictures of the new 8 core nahelem mac pro < 1236731711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*nehalem < 1236731713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two fans < 1236731719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the one I remember was definitely PPC < 1236731764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: also, why do you use a proprietary program, ey? <-- so. What did you mean. boinc is open source < 1236731774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wp says folding@home is propreitary < 1236731788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, so that's how you solve dust in tower computers, blow them with compressed air < 1236731788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok that may be true < 1236731789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always wondere < 1236731790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d < 1236731790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't checked < 1236731803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err of course. what did you expect? < 1236731812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno, I just let my old tower get dusty :D < 1236731813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how did you solve it for your own computer? < 1236731831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :note, however, that this room is exceptionally dusty < 1236731833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, be careful or you will get a dust puppy. And since you _hate_ uf < 1236731843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to it being old and having tons and tons of crap I never touch covered with dust < 1236731848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need to fix that sometime < 1236731850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, clean? < 1236731851 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, compressed air's the usual way < 1236731867 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird < 1236731867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rm -rf dust < 1236731874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's also a big room, I'd have to get a big ladder and everything and dig under all the shit and whatnot < 1236731884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, filters prolongs the period between cleaning < 1236731886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very useful < 1236731896 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're not the guy I would expect to deliver a shitjudgement due to not reading about the case < 1236731902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: :D < 1236731905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, don't you clean your room every now and then < 1236731911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I was your age... < 1236731917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, but it's near-impossible to clean every single bit of the room < 1236731921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my parents forced me to clean a lot < 1236731923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you saw it you'd understand < 1236731932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, pic or it didn't happen < 1236731936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, an air filter ay? < 1236731946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, for computers? Yes a very good idea < 1236731949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they make much noise? < 1236731958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um. *passive filter* < 1236731960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(^joke) < 1236731970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you take them out and clean them every month or so < 1236731976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(^joke) <-- see < 1236731978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well in a dusty room maybe more often < 1236731989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes. But lag made it arrive later < 1236732002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : do they make much noise? ehird, um. *passive filter* you take them out and clean them every month or so (^joke) < 1236732021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (^joke) <-- see well in a dusty room maybe more often ehird, yes. But lag made it arrive later < 1236732037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My main strategy would be to remove all the rubbish I never use to somewhere. < 1236732041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would solve about 85% of the problem < 1236732063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, pic!!! < 1236732071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll give you a pic post-cleaning :P < 1236732077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, pre please < 1236732083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want it when I'm still young < 1236732088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1236732141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I *have* been your age so I know the issue < 1236732157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you grow a bit older it will be paper. Lots of paper < 1236732159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all over the room < 1236732172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in your age it was iirc old lego technic and such < 1236732177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1236732184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, did it match? < 1236732193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1236732209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dusty boxes with lego technic... around 13 < 1236732211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all over the room < 1236732221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.avforums.com/forums/computer-systems/56924-kramer-other-members-promoting-water-cooling-you-have-alot-answer.html <--- hahahahaha < 1236732224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had lots of lego when young < 1236732230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think I grew out of lego and stuff when I was like 10 < 1236732231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::\ < 1236732238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I said *dusty* < 1236732244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1236732258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also it depends on what lego. The Mindstorms thing that you can program in C lasts a bit longer < 1236732259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236732264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has that somewhere < 1236732281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, I like the suggestion further along that thread to put fish in the cooling < 1236732284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also programming it in C is unsupported < 1236732293 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, that good ol' topic :D < 1236732337 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236732537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrmph, teco should read ~/.teco :( < 1236732572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I did wrap the power supply unit in cling film plastic wrap before I filled it with water" < 1236732572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD XD XD < 1236732591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://www.avforums.com/forums/computer-systems/56924-kramer-other-members-promoting-water-cooling-you-have-alot-answer.html <--- hahahahaha <-- don't have time to read it all, is it a windup or not? < 1236732599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know, it's just funny either way < 1236732627 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC it is, but it took some pages until he told them < 1236733014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236733016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :passive cooling < 1236733020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would rock < 1236733027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like my mobile phone, no fan < 1236733052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so a HUGE heat sink < 1236733092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1236733103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that would be rather a fire hazard < 1236733111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you mean with dust? < 1236733119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236733123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant < 1236733126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you thrash the cpu a lot < 1236733145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, of course it would have to be dimensioned for the climate and load < 1236733162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and possibly have a backup fan in if the worst come to the worst < 1236733227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:2007TaipeiITMonth_IntelOCLiveTest_Overclocking-6.jpg < 1236733230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like that picture. < 1236733247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"OH IT IS RUNNING A BIT HOT WELL HER IS SOME LIQUID NITROGEN" < 1236733250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*HERE < 1236733289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1236733330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why is part protected by a piece of fabric? < 1236733338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :risk of getting too cool? < 1236733348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236733349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1236733429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, the fact that adding more cores gives better performance increases than piling on ghz hasn't registered in my brain yet < 1236733450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its native comparison routine rates an old single-core 3ghz above 2 x quad-core 2.2ghz... < 1236733459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I have to emulate it in software instead :P < 1236733479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brains need hot-swappable kernel updates < 1236733488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, we could give old fogeys society boosterpacks. < 1236733500 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1236733589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err < 1236733598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, depends on task if more cores > better < 1236733610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you hit a scalability limit at some point < 1236733614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when overhead is too large < 1236733627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of sync stuff < 1236733629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes, but I think you'd agree that a 1 core 3ghz processor from 2006 is a lot worse in most cases than two quad-core 2.2ghz intel nehalems from november 2008 < 1236733635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where most means almost all < 1236733654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. And even more so if the 1 core one is a Pentium 4 < 1236733663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but other stuff improved too < 1236733669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc < 1236733672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more advanced SSE for example < 1236733680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like SSE4 or whatever we are at now < 1236733704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that my internal brain's cpu comparison routine is (a b -> compare(a.ghz, b.ghz)) < 1236733708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is very broken :D < 1236733737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is < 1236733746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good thing I don't have to perform that very often < 1236733749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also my brain does it in mhz < 1236733760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, my brain works at a granularity of X.Yghz < 1236733761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it realises that we hit 1 GHz ages ago < 1236733775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1ghz? my mom used that as a kid. :| < 1236733791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then it remembers mhz/ghz is a silly way to compare < 1236733797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err probably not < 1236733805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was an exaggerationjoke. < 1236733810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1236733824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Back then the order of the day was FORTRAN and LISP on big mainframes and punchcards :P < 1236733832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1236733838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you used pre-ghz? < 1236733844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrmmm. < 1236733850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, not mobile phones and such < 1236733866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In 1998 I had a Windows 3.11 computer (yes, way obsolete at the time, parents were poor) < 1236733866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or old system, but contemporary ones < 1236733872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was probably pre-ghz. < 1236733884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It had a 15" non-flat CRT screen xD < 1236733887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, your parents got a lot more money now then. with you getting an upgrade soon < 1236733892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lucky you < 1236733899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly my money < 1236733910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even luckier you < 1236733912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the Apple Tax makes it a bit of a stretch :-D < 1236733914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where did you get it?! < 1236733922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apple tax? < 1236733936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apple tax = the purely insane amount of money apple adds on to the actual value of the hardware < 1236733938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, as someone living in UK you should prefer Acorn < 1236733945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used an Acorn PC in school! < 1236733946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a pitty they no longer exist < 1236733948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1236733949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1236733957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you know ARM is all that remains of Acorn < 1236733962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1236733971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RISC OS was nic < 1236733971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1236733974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1236733977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so was Genera < 1236733995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there is always !Befunge for you on RISC OS < 1236734000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, yep < 1236734002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too bad it sucks < 1236734018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it used to be next best after ccbi < 1236734021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back before cfunge < 1236734279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1236734283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the author updates his site regularly, it seems < 1236734289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has Deewiant contacted him about updating !Befunge? < 1236734345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nah < 1236734353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, he didn't contact Mike either < 1236734357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1236734360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he said it wasn't his job < 1236734362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i might contact him :) < 1236734365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236734377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I often thought about it, but "meh" < 1236734394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be nice to have more competition < 1236734527 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236734746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1236734779 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1236735097 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1236736790 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sgeo[Scrubs] < 1236737884 0 :Deewiant_!n=deewiant@tavi.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1236737889 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236737889 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236737889 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236737900 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1236737900 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1236737900 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@tavi.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1236737943 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection reset by peer < 1236738013 0 :Ilari_!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1236738313 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236739097 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1236739419 0 :Ilari_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Ilari < 1236739987 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION blinks < 1236739999 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who's been using Unicode in here? < 1236740874 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236743234 0 :Sgeo[Scrubs]!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sgeo < 1236744925 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1236745571 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unicode is evil < 1236745607 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION scribbles on a piece of paper < 1236745640 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird's mom is probably 31 or older. < 1236745670 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :95% < 1236745676 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore, she was only a kid at least seven years ago. < 1236745683 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you giving me the probability of her being 31 or older? < 1236745691 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236745743 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For what n is the probability of her being n or older 50%? < 1236745787 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1236745795 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :45 < 1236745807 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, 43 < 1236745814 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, 45 < 1236745815 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION scribbles more < 1236745821 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :final answer < 1236745858 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My n is 41. Final answer. < 1236745863 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, let's fight to the death. < 1236745901 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how old is your mom? < 1236747991 0 :psygnisfive!n=psygnisf@c-71-57-164-119.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236748017 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird! < 1236748041 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or anyone else interested in delightful discoveries about fractals and such < 1236748073 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :listen up! < 1236748075 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do this: < 1236748112 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a grid, with lines labeled from 0 < 1236748183 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take the bitwise logical operation of the gridline numbers (e.g. at the point (4,12) take, say, the bitwise nand of 4 and 12). if the result is 0, draw a circle on the point. < 1236748194 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or make some other obvious mark. < 1236748209 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do this for, say... an 8x8 or 16x16 grid. < 1236748248 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if you're slick, code it up using a graphics API and see what results for decently sized space, say 512x512 < 1236748453 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that. :P < 1236748471 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forget whether its if the result is 0, or below some value, or whatever. anyway, you get the idea. < 1236748500 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and works too, i think. < 1236748674 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, if you do an AND, that works. < 1236749012 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | ascii z < 1236749015 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | ascii plz < 1236751297 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Client Excited" < 1236751883 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ONE ASCII TO RULE THEM ALL < 1236752210 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@92.254.128.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236754587 0 :neldoreth!n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth JOIN :#esoteric < 1236756469 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1236756535 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-4-12.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236757080 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236758399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1236758400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1236758413 0 :asiekierk!i=africalo@078088180066.elb.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1236758427 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god i'm going to build a mechanical tv probably < 1236758691 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest starting out somewhat easy... < 1236758711 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Build a mechanical color adaptor. ;p < 1236759317 0 :Deewiant_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Deewiant < 1236759625 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: As in, a color mechanical tv? < 1236759661 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Easy. Make a small color wheel, speed up the nipkow disc and make the color wheel spin too, make the proper image and BAM! CBS/Baird/Nipkow color TV! < 1236759908 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I was thinking color wheel disk for a standard B&W NTSC TV. < 1236759913 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, it has been done. < 1236759974 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even NTSC for NBTV has been done by one guy < 1236760026 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called "NBSC" < 1236760040 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i'm waiting for someone to do PAL for NBTV... but that lacks a good name < 1236760121 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NB-PAL? < 1236760266 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, I am wondering whether you can make a Nipkow camera by switching the LED with a light sensor... < 1236760276 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, swapping them in the device < 1236760282 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no LED but a light sensor < 1236760286 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then transmit that to the PC < 1236760288 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't see why not. < 1236760288 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exchange parts < 1236760295 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and bam! Nipkow Camera/TV! < 1236760357 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, pikhq, did you build a mechanical TV once? < 1236761011 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but it seems like something I could do. < 1236761252 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm currently looking for a good tutorial < 1236764367 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm wondering why am I converting the copy of the first Baird-system play < 1236764385 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The Man with the Flower in his Mouth" < 1236764389 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :into the NBTV standard < 1236764463 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :30% < 1236764469 0 :tombom!i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1236764782 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :74%, somehow :P < 1236764842 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :About 3 minutes left, then I'll start working on my Televisor, then convert the play from "prepared" AVI to the WAV, then play it from somewhere (my Wii, possibly) and WIN < 1236764896 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :90% - 1 minute left :) < 1236765509 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :augh, need to re-convert it < 1236765516 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but does it quite quickly :) < 1236765547 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :converting to WAV < 1236765596 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :way too fast, it does like, half a minute of the movie in a second < 1236765642 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it actually does 5 seconds/second :P < 1236765646 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and done :) < 1236765700 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yay, the awesome sound of the NBTV :) < 1236765709 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i must reconvert it though :( < 1236765855 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :done :) < 1236765862 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now I will need to make the Nipkow disk < 1236766828 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having fun? < 1236769050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : unicode is evil <-- wrong < 1236769062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo, bsmntbombdood: åäö åäö åäö < 1236769112 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i just made the coolest testcard/opening ever < 1236769114 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the opening is < 1236769131 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 seconds of the ye` ole` BBC countdown along with a 15-second clock and numbers for the last 3 seconds < 1236769240 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spiffy. < 1236769268 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course < 1236769273 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I was frame-tuning the whole thing < 1236769275 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sony Vegas crashed < 1236769286 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully it has autosave < 1236769474 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the thing takes exactly 2 minutes and 30 seconds < 1236769478 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and has a bunch of NBTV testcards < 1236769481 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 reproduced by me < 1236769485 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another made by me < 1236769491 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some other mini-testcards from the 'net < 1236769524 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got to admit, NBTV is rather clever... < 1236769579 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, it'll take 2 minutes and 15 seconds < 1236769617 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can send it to you if you want < 1236769658 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, why not? < 1236769671 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The tuning signals and testcards take about 1 minute 50 seconds < 1236769675 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the rest is the "mini-clock" < 1236769690 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might be tempted to build a Nipkow-disc TV set some time soon... < 1236769693 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1236769698 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember my video is 32x48 < 1236769710 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for downscaling, it's all mostly pixel-by-pixel already < 1236769715 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you want WAV format or the original WMV? < 1236769716 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe get an NTSC->Nipkow converter going for the hell of it. ;p < 1236769724 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes? < 1236769743 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which format do you want < 1236769757 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the WAV format which you can play into your NBTV (left channel - video, right channel - mono audio) < 1236769761 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both, if you don't mind? < 1236769771 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, you can convert a WMV to a WAV < 1236769777 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you first need to convert it to AVI for some reason < 1236769798 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will give you the link for the converter < 1236769802 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can also live-convert videos < 1236769808 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I converted "Man with the flower in his mouth" for it < 1236769877 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will send you the installer and the BMPs with it (why not?) < 1236769901 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my testcard is also availble in "lame color version", btw, but i think you can just convert SMPTE bars to it < 1236769975 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it doesn't really want to convert the WMV, will need to encode in higher res maybe :( < 1236770008 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, i think directshow+ffmpeg did it < 1236770021 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, sorta < 1236770132 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, i encoded a thing wrongly < 1236770231 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sending you the pack < 1236770245 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Video2NBTV (the AVI->NBTV converter), my testcard set and the AVI < 1236770263 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give me your email tho < 1236772380 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've always wanted to construct a display using rotating discs. < 1236772410 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So do it < 1236772421 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I offer a tuning helper if anyone wants < 1236772432 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every disc has a pattern of stripes on it, and they're all stacked, and it uses Fourier transforms or something to figure out how to rotate them to give the right image. < 1236772439 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ph < 1236772446 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh* < 1236775796 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :asie[away] < 1236776601 0 :neldoret1!n=user@81-223-127-237.stpeter.xdsl-line.inode.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1236777130 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1236777630 0 :asie[away]!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236778802 0 :asie[away]!i=africalo@078088180066.elb.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1236778804 0 :asie[away]!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :asie[brb] < 1236778850 0 :asie[brb]!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :asie[busy] < 1236778857 0 :asie[busy]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Progress: Cutting out the material for the Nipkow Disk < 1236778913 0 :asie[busy]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, now cutting out the disk itself < 1236779039 0 :asie[busy]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ow, my fingers hurt <:( < 1236779415 0 :asie[busy]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate my laser printer < 1236779427 0 :asie[busy]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ink is so weird i need to repaint some of the thing with a black marker < 1236779530 0 :asie[busy]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about 40% done < 1236779581 0 :Mony!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-80-194.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236779608 0 :neldoret1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1236779647 0 :asie[busy]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :70% < 1236779647 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plop < 1236779719 0 :asie[busy]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1236779722 0 :asie[busy]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Mony < 1236779725 0 :asie[busy]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm making a mechanical TV set < 1236779847 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that ? < 1236779896 0 :asie[busy]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a TV that uses the "Nipkow disk" and a LED and audio to show very lo-res analogue TV on a tiny half-inch screen* < 1236779907 0 :asie[busy]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* - using a single A4 sheet for the disk < 1236779997 0 :asie[busy]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for now, I have cut approx. 1/5th of that disk < 1236780054 0 :asie[busy]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the holes will be perfect < 1236780055 0 :asie[busy]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1236780114 0 :asie[busy]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/4th, getting closer < 1236780236 0 :asie[busy]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1/2 < 1236780326 0 :asie[busy]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nearly done < 1236780395 0 :asie[busy]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :done < 1236780405 0 :asie[busy]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now repainting some parts with a black marker (I hate my ink) < 1236780801 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.128 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236781140 0 :asie[busy]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the wheel works ((manually though, i will need to make bigger holes) < 1236781279 0 :rabideejit!n=spoon@79-71-254-86.dynamic.dsl.as9105.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1236781293 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236781306 0 :rabideejit!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Greeting. < 1236781382 0 :rabideejit!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a new language for you. < 1236781382 0 :rabideejit!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider deciphering the contents of http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Kolmogorov and http://www.killersmurf.com/projects/Kolmogorov < 1236781493 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236781498 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maaaan < 1236781510 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there an interpreter already? < 1236781514 0 :rabideejit!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236781515 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there is, he totally smoked me :o < 1236781520 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me and my Andrei machine < 1236781529 0 :rabideejit!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aaah! It's you. You inspired me. < 1236781540 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :greetings, rabideejit < 1236781551 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did I? < 1236781561 0 :rabideejit!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed you did. < 1236781563 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I will take all credit < 1236781566 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woooo < 1236781582 0 :rabideejit!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Greetings ais. < 1236781585 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graph rewriting is a bitch and I'm a terrible programmer. < 1236781595 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I never managed to write an interpreter. < 1236781611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks somewhat higher-level than the Andrei Machine < 1236781631 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that you have a BF equivalence already, probably it's actually quite usable, which is always nice in an esolang < 1236781632 0 :rabideejit!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. The andrei machine is much closer to what Kolmogorov had in mind, I'd say. < 1236781633 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't do high level. < 1236781654 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, it's exactly what Kolmogorov had in mind, except for the I/O. < 1236781685 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want, the original article is here : http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Russell/Kolmo/ < 1236781693 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They won't let me put it on the wiki though :3 < 1236781776 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the wiki's public-domain, you can't put copyrighted things on there < 1236781781 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and things are copyrighted by default < 1236781794 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know. < 1236781812 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though I doubt we'd get in trouble < 1236781821 0 :rabideejit!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, thankyou! I was looking for that. My source was Uri Gurevich's on Kolmogorov Machines and Related issues. < 1236781835 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it is hard to find. < 1236781840 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even as a used book < 1236781904 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should finish my Fibonacci on that language. < 1236781961 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The commands are much easier on that one < 1236782053 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should still try mine one day. This one doesn't have the global graph transformation. < 1236782223 0 :rabideejit!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, the Andrei machine has an easy-to-reach register. The challenger of the Kolmogorov language is all your data is all pointing to each other and you get lost. Hence the 500 line 99 bottles of beer. < 1236782231 0 :rabideejit!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*challenge < 1236782244 0 :rabideejit!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freudian there. < 1236782274 0 :rabideejit!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah but I guess the Andrei register is a bit hard to reach, as you have to run through the graph to get it. < 1236782279 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I usually try easy I/O. < 1236782294 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially here, because it's the only way to know if it works correctly < 1236782304 0 :rabideejit!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1236782318 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would do a debugger where you can see the actual graph, but I have no idea how to do it < 1236782332 0 :rabideejit!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be crazy. < 1236782364 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The shitty part though is the graph recognition. < 1236782383 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To use the transformations, it has to be able to recognize any pattern starting at 0 < 1236782388 0 :rabideejit!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it seems a very complex problem. < 1236782423 0 :rabideejit!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmmm! < 1236782440 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially since it doesn't have to be connected < 1236782642 0 :rabideejit!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hum, ho. < 1236782758 0 :rabideejit!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must take your leave, I need to eat some yogurt. Nice to meet you Slereah. < 1236782761 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-109-020.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1236782765 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye. < 1236782779 0 :rabideejit!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1236783179 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fjhdsjfh < 1236783180 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :morning < 1236783212 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello dude. < 1236783217 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sup < 1236783227 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turns out I'm an inspiration. < 1236783235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf ,>++++++[<-------->-],[<+>-]++++++[<-------->-],[<+>-]<.!43 < 1236783244 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 < 1236783245 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the beard, is it? < 1236783272 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so did anyone try that thing i suggested earlier? :P < 1236783281 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What was that thing? < 1236783367 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :taking the bitwise AND of (N+, N+) and graphing at only the points where that == 0 < 1236783410 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't that be just everywhere outside of 1's everywhere? < 1236783420 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1236783443 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Owait, no < 1236783468 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also why do you want that? < 1236783477 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just do it :) < 1236783497 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do it for an 8x8 square < 1236783506 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so for N = 0..7 < 1236783526 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lemme get my snake < 1236783551 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck, it's been a while since I coded. < 1236783562 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1236783568 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can draw it by hand for an 8x8 square < 1236783577 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to get a sense of what results < 1236783594 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except that it would involve doing a whole bunch of little bitwise operations < 1236783679 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1236783683 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a lot faster than you think < 1236783698 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but then, I can generalize to any size < 1236783705 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus, the magic doesnt happen unless you graph it two dimensionally < 1236783708 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but anyway, whatever < 1236783714 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as you can visualize it < 1236783717 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plus I can just use my old binary converter of my Post machine < 1236783728 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also you can graph it with python < 1236783738 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"#Decimal to binary string" < 1236783742 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good old Postal < 1236783817 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1236783900 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Old program < 1236783906 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. < 1236783912 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1236783920 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :essentially what you want to do is something like < 1236783985 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.upto(n) do |i| < 1236783985 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 0.upto(n) do |j| < 1236783986 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : make_pixel_black(i,j) if 0 == i&j < 1236783988 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : end < 1236783990 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :end < 1236784343 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: Python does not paste well at all over IRC < 1236784354 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least convert tabs to spaces so we have a chance at seing what you're writing < 1236784357 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good think i didn't use python! < 1236784358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or use a pastebin < 1236784362 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236784363 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes < 1236784373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just noticed the every-other-line-in-italics < 1236784379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a usual sign to me that someone's tried to paste it < 1236784384 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :every-other-line-in-italics? < 1236784386 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the |i| would suggest more Ruby < 1236784391 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont see these things that you speak of. < 1236784395 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see all and only what i wrote. < 1236784396 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: my client interprets tab as toggle-italics < 1236784403 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well your client is stupid. < 1236784405 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236784440 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tab *is* ctrl-i, so it's not that far off. < 1236784457 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tab is not ctrl-i < 1236784459 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf are you smoking < 1236784491 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tab is indeed control-I, not on the keyboard, but in terms of representation in a text file < 1236784494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're both ASCII code 8 < 1236784495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*9 < 1236784524 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ctrl-i is not an ascii character. so no. < 1236784526 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As unrefutable proof: Wikipedia redirects from "Control-I" to "Tab key". < 1236784536 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lies. < 1236784541 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :control-a is 1, control-b is 2, control-c is 3, and so on < 1236784552 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lies lies and more lies < 1236784564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you ever wondered why it requires a lot of trickery to distinguish return and control-j from inside a program, for instance? < 1236784585 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1236784591 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because ive never experienced such problems. < 1236784923 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so slereah < 1236784925 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you dones it yet < 1236785171 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X < 1236785171 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X X X X X X X X X X < 1236785171 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X X X X X X X X X X < 1236785171 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X X X X X < 1236785171 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X X X X X X X X X X X X < 1236785171 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X X X X X X < 1236785173 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X X X X X X < 1236785175 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X X X < 1236785177 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X X X X X X X X X X X X < 1236785179 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X X X X X X < 1236785181 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X X X X X X < 1236785183 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X X X < 1236785185 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X X X X X X X X < 1236785187 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X X X X < 1236785189 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X X X X < 1236785191 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X X < 1236785193 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X < 1236785195 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X X X X X X X X < 1236785197 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X X X X X X X X < 1236785199 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X X X X < 1236785201 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like this < 1236785203 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1236785210 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X < 1236785210 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X < 1236785210 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X X < 1236785210 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood < 1236785223 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-4-12.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236785224 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who ate the corners off the sierpinsky cookie? < 1236785224 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does look fractally. < 1236785356 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it is fractally in the other way around it seems < 1236785397 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finite sized patterns that repeat at bigger scales :o < 1236785421 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a way to display Python in a monospaced font? < 1236785940 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah < 1236785940 0 :Hiato!n=1@dsl-245-1-23.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1236785946 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a sierpinski gasket < 1236785954 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes, it is "fractally" < 1236785958 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the more interesting thing is that < 1236785964 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is a gasket < 1236785968 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is. < 1236785999 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the more interesting thing is that its the sierpinski gasket AND it comes about JUST from doing bitwise AND over N^2 < 1236786003 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, how ridiculous is that? < 1236786020 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A gasket is also: 1. gasket -- (seal consisting of a ring for packing pistons or sealing a pipe joint) < 1236786023 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You are aware that fractals don't have to be complex < 1236786035 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cantor set is easy as shit to create < 1236786046 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, i know this. < 1236786058 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but do you *feel* it? < 1236786067 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the point is more that this structure comes about from simple bitwise logic on numbers < 1236786082 0 :neldoreth!n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth JOIN :#esoteric < 1236786093 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am hard to fill with wonder < 1236786099 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although semen is another matter < 1236786133 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or more precisely, the gasket is there in bitwise logic over ALL integers. so that its not some convoluted escape time algorithm, or geometric copy algorithm (tho it might be equivalent to the last one) < 1236786140 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead, its just AND(N,N) < 1236786168 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Also, it seems like they could fill more things with cream." "Just "things" in general? Where do you draw the line?" "Well, my thinking is this: if it's empty, fill it with cream." (That's one of the quotes fungot has.) < 1236786168 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you're either with them or are they only used for rebuilds in case of hack attacks illegal activity, < 1236786199 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is fungot a markov bot? < 1236786199 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: dang... the guy tried to argue) because lisp and scheme < 1236786209 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, a close relative, anyway. < 1236786222 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. he should be a phrase-structure bot instead! :| < 1236786255 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Data structures are a bit iffy to do with befunge; I went with the simplest option. < 1236786259 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, it'd require more computation, but it would produce grammatically correct sentences with absolutely not sensibility to them < 1236786265 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. its befunge. nevermind :D < 1236786284 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funge-98, to be exact: http://zem.fi/~fis/fungot.b98.txt < 1236786284 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's all. easily parsed even in emacs. wanting to see a larger project you end up with < 1236786290 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, you actually dont have to do it with datastructures < 1236786300 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just some sort of context free production system < 1236786303 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, that was an eerily suitable reply. < 1236786304 0 :neldoret1!n=user@81-223-127-237.stpeter.xdsl-line.inode.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1236786307 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1236786308 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yep < 1236786317 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if it can easily be done even in Emacs, why not in Befunge? < 1236786332 0 :asie[busy]!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :asiekierk < 1236786590 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ (x,y) : x,y in N; x&y = 0 } is the gasket. how crazy is that tho < 1236786591 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously < 1236786593 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think about it < 1236786648 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it generalizes to gasket-like structures in n dimensions: { p : p in N^k; &p = 0 } < 1236786692 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Psog < 1236786696 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How did you know this though < 1236786717 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a professor of mine does a bunch of crazy stuff with logic, philosophy, and computation < 1236786733 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he coauthored a book called The Philosophical Computer, and he mentions this in one chapter. < 1236786776 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's apparently very interested in what the fundamental principle is that leads to the Sierpinski Gasket showing up all over the place (bitwise logic, 1d CAs, GoL, etc.) < 1236786818 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i've determined why it shows up in GoL tho. GoL is actually simulating a 4-state 1D CA when it produces the gasket < 1236786819 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1236786822 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats how you get it. < 1236786829 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe God is just too lazy to finish his triangles < 1236786833 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe! < 1236786839 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or the universe is filled with bees < 1236786839 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so he's made things do it for him < 1236786843 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEES < 1236786851 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And sip sip syrup sipping nigga are honeycombs < 1236786852 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, its just interesting that the same thing shows up again and again < 1236786864 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be interesting to find out precisely WHAT the general principle is < 1236786869 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its probably something very simple < 1236786881 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's the bees < 1236786895 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, labtime < 1236786897 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, im off to class. ciao bitches < 1236787256 0 :M0ny!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-93-123.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236787435 0 :impomatic!n=John@nat66.mia.three.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1236787612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:27 kerlo: ehird's mom is probably 31 or older. < 1236787615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Correct. < 1236787617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:26 h has left IRC (Excess Flood) < 1236787621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck, more regex fuckery. < 1236787623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too lazy to fix. < 1236787750 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1236787773 0 :neldoret1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1236788011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerlo: If you want to precisify the value, you can play 20 questions. < 1236788047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, y'know, just analyze LISP and FORTRAN release dates and soforth. < 1236788065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LISP and FORTRAN release dates would determine the value? < 1236788077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"03:27 kerlo: ehird's mom is probably 31 or older." < 1236788093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Based, presumably, on me saying that when my mother was a kid, LISP and FORTRAN on punchcards were the order of the day. < 1236788101 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236788165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good lord, Apple made the iPod Shuffle even smaller. < 1236788178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soon it'll take up negative space. < 1236788200 0 :neldoreth!n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth JOIN :#esoteric < 1236788225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should fit it inside a pair of headphones < 1236788229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1236788239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is that funny? I thought it was quite a good idea < 1236788246 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, how many controls does the thing need? < 1236788272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just has start/stop and forward, I think, except now it has playlists apparently < 1236788272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so hm < 1236788291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, here < 1236788297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :volume up, volume down, and one button < 1236788308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :single click: lay/pause, next track: double click, previous track: triple click < 1236788314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hear title and artist (TTS): hold < 1236788326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hold center button and release after tone: speaks out playlist names, click to select < 1236788340 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236788348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the thing is, they ship with earphones < 1236788353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://images.apple.com/ipodshuffle/images/features_hero_20090311.jpg < 1236788359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could fit the button on to one < 1236788362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and up/down volume on another < 1236788571 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just stick an accelerometer in, and have you shake your head like you've got a seizure whenever you need to interact with it. < 1236788594 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do ipod shuffles work, controlwise? < 1236788605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I just told you! < 1236788609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: volume up, volume down, and one button < 1236788609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:18 ehird: single click: lay/pause, next track: double click, previous track: triple click < 1236788611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:18 ehird: hear title and artist (TTS): hold < 1236788613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:18 ehird: hold center button and release after tone: speaks out playlist names, click to select < 1236788620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the side there's a volume up button, one single button, and the volume down < 1236788625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the single button has the operations above < 1236788690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ok < 1236788703 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm kind-of doing something else at the moment, so I'm not really paying attention to IRC < 1236788720 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and based on the name, presumably it plays in random order if given no other instructions? < 1236788770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236788776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't make it go in normal order, I think < 1236788893 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've used headphones before which had a volume knob on each headphone < 1236788898 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's effectively 4 controls < 1236788922 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have a rotating off/volume knob on one earphone, and the button on the other, I suppose < 1236789160 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"raise Hand, 'wave'" < 1236789705 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236789817 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=arvid@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236791029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" Linux is by far the most popular UNIX OS" < 1236791031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er... no... < 1236791051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :change that to UNIX-compatible, and it's probably correct < 1236791059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X < 1236791064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has a larger market share than linux < 1236791148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't linux around 1% market share? < 1236791154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and mac around 9% or so? < 1236791158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, maybe a bit less < 1236791177 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: add in servers and embedded systems, and linux beats mac os x hollow < 1236791194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what proportion of UNIX-compatible systems are servers < 1236791197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :embedded systems, sure < 1236791199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but servers? < 1236791201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not so sure < 1236791206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BSD is very popular on servers < 1236791207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is windows < 1236791223 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, Windows isn't unix-compatible though so doesn't count < 1236791230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1236791234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but BSD and Solaris both definitely factor into the server market < 1236791334 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X Server, now... I don't think that's so very very popular. < 1236791344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, although IIRC it does exist < 1236791346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, OS X server has like 0 market share. < 1236791361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine it's mostly used in small businesses. < 1236791375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For corporate sites & email and internal intranet sites etc < 1236791378 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"16.7% of smartphones sold worldwide during 2006 were using Linux[49]" -- that's a larger number than I expected. < 1236791400 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From the infallible wikipedia, of course. < 1236791407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X Server does integrate its unix user accounts with the web services, which is nice. < 1236791415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't t hink of anyhting particularly exciting about it, though. < 1236791426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it comes with all the dekstop apps, which is rather stupid. < 1236791429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*desktop < 1236791439 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but they're the only thing that distinguishes OSX from Darwin < 1236791443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, it's a big and good selling point < 1236791461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Not quite. < 1236791470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The GUI in general is; but do you need iCal on a server? < 1236791480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I suppose so < 1236791496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sort-of got the impression that OSX Server was designed to be used as a workstation and also a server at the same time < 1236791543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be a rather odd use-case. < 1236791552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Sorry guys, I'm playing a dvd, slight slowdown" < 1236791771 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can imagine that use-case for people living at home who wanted a servery thing of their own < 1236791777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True < 1236791781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's pricey, though. < 1236791785 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, even this laptop has apache installed, although other people can't access it except via a reverse tunnel < 1236791788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like really pricey < 1236791810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10-client license is £312 < 1236791810 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that's not out of character for Apple, but it's no wonder why nobody buys it < 1236791818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: regular OS X comes with apache < 1236791823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1236791827 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it come with an ircd? < 1236791837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think OS X Server comes with an ircd :P < 1236791871 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an ircd on here too, although I only use it for testing bots < 1236791896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Installing an ircd on here would be rather trivial < 1236791907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : % port info ngircd < 1236791907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ngircd @0.12.1 (irc) < 1236791909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Variants: ident, universal < 1236791919 0 :impomatic!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1236791928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, same as (an apt-based) Linux (distro), really. < 1236791977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1236791986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why buy the server version if the desktop version can do that? < 1236791999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what I'm asking. :P < 1236792015 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's against the licence agreement < 1236792033 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like you aren't allowed to have more than 4 simultaneous incoming network connections on non-server versions of Windows < 1236792042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now THAT I highly doubt... < 1236792072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all, MacPorts is hosted on Mac OS Forge, which Apple runs (and personally approves all projects on, i.e. it's not something like berlios or whatever) < 1236792073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236792079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is that true about windows? < 1236792084 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I mean, to use it as a server < 1236792085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Crazy! I'll have violated that billions of times... < 1236792091 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for that thing about Windows, I remember it from somewhere < 1236792091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right, but macports has servers < 1236792100 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it may have been false, or I might have misremembered < 1236792102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is on a site with pseudo-official projects < 1236792164 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Googling, it seems it's a Windows XP SP 2 thing, specifically < 1236792166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone should get an old eMac and run emacs on it < 1236792171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the websites there seem to disagree about the number < 1236792176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2, 4, and 10 have all been reported < 1236792195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and 5 < 1236792257 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr... why are all the files on microsoft.com .doc files? < 1236792263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you think? < 1236792269 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not HTML? < 1236792272 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could understand docx < 1236792277 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but doc seems self-defeating for everyone < 1236792280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including Microsoft < 1236792281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they're old < 1236792287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they want to support old words < 1236792310 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Note: If SQL Server 2005 Express is running on Windows XP Home, it is limited to five simultaneous connections. If it is running on Windows 2000 or Windows XP Professional, it is limited to 10 simultaneous connections. However, these are limitations of the operating system and not of SQL Server 2005 Express." < 1236792323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :found on a word document on microsoft.com, that's evidence, at least < 1236792324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1236792327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can modify tha < 1236792327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1236792331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trivially < 1236792376 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you have not heard, Microsoft has announced the name for the next version of Windows, a.k.a. Longhorn. It will be called Windows Vista. The great news is, Windows Vista Beta 1, targeted at developers and IT professionals, is now available to MSDN Subscribers. Please check the new the new Windows Vista Developer Center for more details." < 1236792383 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, didn't expect to randomly see that when searching < 1236792395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1236792404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I liked the longhorn name < 1236792412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was vaguely phallic. Like Windows. < 1236793787 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236793850 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=arvid@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236794305 0 :neldoret1!n=user@81-223-127-237.stpeter.xdsl-line.inode.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1236794315 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236794493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"AuroraUX - SunOS-based Operating System Written (Mostly) in Ada" < 1236794498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's certainly esoteric. < 1236794521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it 100% military reliable secure? < 1236794525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows < 1236794532 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that it's written in ADA, it ought to be < 1236794537 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was the whole point behind ada < 1236794540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ada is not UPPERCASE < 1236794558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, pet peeve... < 1236794562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the worst is LISP and JAVA < 1236794566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, isn't it? < 1236794571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's Ada < 1236794572 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was named after someone < 1236794575 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but written in uppercase anyway < 1236794577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ada Lovelace < 1236794581 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know it isn't an acronym < 1236794584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, I know who it's named after < 1236794598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ada_(programming_language) netcraft^Wwikipedia confirms i < 1236794598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1236794616 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia has it at Ada, though < 1236794619 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you beat me to checking < 1236794738 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236794928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[It mostly crashes immediately, mostly due to some unsupported operations in the assembler backend, but for a carefully crafted program, we're able to get massive speedups. For something as complex as: < 1236794929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i = 0 < 1236794931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : while i < 10000000: < 1236794933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : i = i + 1 < 1236794935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :our JIT is about 20x faster than CPython. ]] < 1236794941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish I could write programs that complex. < 1236794984 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I can optimise that into i = 10000000 < 1236794991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dayum! < 1236794994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're the best compiler ever. < 1236794996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's probably more than a factor-of-20 speedup < 1236794998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here, compile this program. < 1236795007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that announcement was tounge-in-cheek < 1236795012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*tongue < 1236795018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: one of my friends actually said that at university, that they'd rather trust me to convert C into asm than the compiler < 1236795025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1236795028 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although admittedly it was a really awful compiler < 1236795032 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I trusted me more than it too < 1236795035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which compiler? < 1236795039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CCS C < 1236795044 0 :jix_!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-077-007.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1236795050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has been mentioned on thedailywtf sidebar at least once, so it isn't me < 1236795054 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*just me < 1236795071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the gpl-but-eula one? < 1236795082 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that's MPLAB C30 which is actually quite good < 1236795098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should put that one on the internet with the eula-removing modifications and see what they do :-D < 1236795104 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's about as good as gcc is, although a bit less optimised, which is not surprising < 1236795111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, the eula-removing modifications are already online < 1236795112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"We will sue you for not complying with our EUL... oh, crap." < 1236795117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i meant, the whole source < 1236795124 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just swapped out the EULA for the standard hello world that came with microsoft visual C < 1236795139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1236795150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really, communicating with your licence enforcer via exit code is not such a good idea < 1236795318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I hate the people who just post their solution in J. That's almost as intelligible as brainfuck. " -- on project euler < 1236795326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how dare they use a concise, expressive language < 1236795329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... like brainfuck < 1236795333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION audience laughs < 1236795494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1236795499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi. < 1236795507 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1236795564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How much scrollback is needed for context? < 1236795575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for what? < 1236795575 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 < 1236795576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eula talk? < 1236795579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :30 lines or so < 1236795584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for my brainfuck thing, about 7 by now < 1236795593 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for eula talk, quite a lot more, for ehird's joke just 4 before you said hi < 1236795615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you should look up CCS C some time, anyway, it's sufficiently bad that at one point I was just planning to reimplement it better < 1236795622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1236795627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, indeed < 1236795633 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, if you pass a constant string as an argument to a function < 1236795645 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it converts it into a loop which calls the function once for each character of the string < 1236795648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236795650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with that character as argument < 1236795654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Afugawhatthefuckbitshit. < 1236795659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236795666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :J...jwha...ofjgo. < 1236795669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fgokpdfkogkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkk < 1236795671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so that's occasionally a useful operation, they really shouldn't have made it the default though < 1236795672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;______; You ruined my brain. < 1236795680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : really, communicating with your licence enforcer via exit code is not such a good idea <-- Huh? < 1236795681 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how strange. < 1236795683 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it so blatantly breaks about half the C standard < 1236795690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHY DID THEY DO THAT < 1236795702 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because strings are expensive on their target platform < 1236795714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why do you say huh at basic, mundane, simple sentences < 1236795723 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and instead of optimising printf("Hello, world!\n") into the row of putchars it ought to be < 1236795741 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in CCS C you're supposed to write putchar("Hello, world!\n"), never mind that that makes absolutely no sense < 1236795743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because it made no sense < 1236795746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hahaha < 1236795747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to me < 1236795751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what the fuck? of course it did < 1236795754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can that not make sense < 1236795761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see any wiggle room for meaninglessness in that sentence < 1236795763 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note, hello world as a row of putchars is suboptimal on most platforms but probably the best way on the PIC) < 1236795766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236795770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't come up with one single interpretation in which that makes no sense... < 1236795773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :licence enforcer is some sort of program? < 1236795774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1236795777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1236795781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was thinking "lawyer" < 1236795785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1236795800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://paste.lisp.org/display/76820 <-- ' CALL-WITH-CURRENT-CONTINUATION FORTH IN < 1236795812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[not mine] < 1236795832 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236795871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Conventional wisdom has it that Mosaic was the first graphical web browser. Even though Mosaic - the basis for Netscape - certainly kickstarted the web revolution, it wasn't the first graphical web browser at all - that honour goes to Erwise" < 1236795875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?! < 1236795885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WorldWideWeb.app was the first graphical browser, and the first BROWSER... < 1236795896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, depending on what PIC you target, just using ASM may be saner < 1236795903 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, yes < 1236795908 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about the sort of asm you need < 1236795925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, like I doubt any sort of C would make much sense for PIC12F629 (which I programmed against) < 1236795927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but putchar on a PIC requires you to write an interrupt handler by hand, or else use the hardware serial port as a background thread < 1236795947 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's what CCS C is, it mostly targets PIC16 but they don't have a much bigger instruction set < 1236795950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well. I'm not sure where STDOUT would be on a PIC... < 1236795962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's the UART that's both stdout and stdin < 1236796001 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, USART on a PIC, although I don't know of anyone who used them in synchronous mode < 1236796007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm iirc PIC12* doesn't have a special such... < 1236796016 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some will, some won't, I expect < 1236796060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I mean I had serial port connected two ways in programming mode, and but when running I needed that pin for something else. So I used a jumper < 1236796071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still read serial though < 1236796100 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes, you can implement it in software < 1236796111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CCS C requires weird pragmas to set up the UART, or else software emulation of it < 1236796133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, apart from programming mode I had to handle serial interrupt myself completely, PIC12 doesn't have any support built in. < 1236796139 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1236796144 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nearly all PIC16s do, IIRC < 1236796149 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :certainly the ones I've used do < 1236796162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember how programming mode worked. I think it was driving some pin(s) to certain values or something like that < 1236796167 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you still need a MAX232 or something though because the output's at the wrong voltages for conventional communicatoin < 1236796176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and programming mode works by putting 12V into the reset pin < 1236796186 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something you're unlikely to do by mistake as they're only 5V devices normally < 1236796197 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and smacks very much of DO NOT DO THIS UNLESS YOU REALLY KNOW WHAT YOU'RE DOING < 1236796205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well this was so long ago I don't remember details < 1236796244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it does sound familiar now that you mention it < 1236796261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, however are you sure PIC12* are 5V? < 1236796280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they vary from about 3.3 to 5, IIRC < 1236796341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, iirc PIC12F629 was 1.5 V... < 1236796344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I may misremember < 1236796352 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that's low, but not entirely implausible < 1236796359 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if it still had a 12V program mode? < 1236796365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something needs to generate program voltage, after all < 1236796376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey ais523! < 1236796382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1236796384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl -lpe 's;.;y$IVCXL91-I0$XLMCDXVIII$dfor$I.=4x$&%1859^7;eg;$_=$I' < 1236796395 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: let me work out what that does without running it < 1236796395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I may misremember, and it may have 9 V or such then for programming? < 1236796395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give it decimal numbers. < 1236796400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kay < 1236796401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would that be plausible? < 1236796408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just to warn you, it's computer generated < 1236796434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a perl program wrote a c program that, when run, gave output which when given to a perl program outputted a perl program) < 1236796439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so congrats if you can understand it < 1236796444 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not really, you need voltages around 12V to reflash a chip no matter what it normally runs as < 1236796445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I think it's obvious looknig at it < 1236796446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, which coding contest was it from? < 1236796449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: perl golf < 1236796452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm ok. < 1236796479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, it starts by looping over all characters in the input string < 1236796497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I see. So what program was used to generate it. Because compiler generated asm from icc -fast is more readable. < 1236796513 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: asm is meant to be readable, you should be comparing that to machine code < 1236796514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha ha perl is unreadable because I don't know it ohhh such a bastion of comedy. < 1236796523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that got old in 1990, AnMaster. < 1236796557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I can read some perl. I'm not totally perl illiterate. I just don't know all the details. I know enough to read clean perl programs. < 1236796622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that Perl is deliberately rather compressed, by the look of it < 1236796628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also using $ as a delimiter to y is evil < 1236796639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"deliberately"? i said, it's computer generated < 1236796642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:33 ehird: (a perl program wrote a c program that, when run, gave output which when given to a perl program outputted a perl program) < 1236796647 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were deliberately going for obfuscation there, I think < 1236796648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so of course it's generated to be as short as possible < 1236796649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236796651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's perl golf < 1236796654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it's obfuscated ... < 1236796656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I know < 1236796660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kay < 1236796664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it would be just as short using , or something, and more readable < 1236796668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or " fwiw < 1236796684 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably the computer just picked a random punctuation mark that worked < 1236796701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so was the C program as obfuscated? < 1236796707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, none of the generators were < 1236796709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only the final result < 1236796711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the algorithm's weird < 1236796736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. when ais523 figured it out or gave up, could you please provide a link? < 1236796753 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes characters from the input string, then multiplies by 1111, modulos by 1859, and bitwise-xors by 7 < 1236796758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have it now, thanks to the power of /msg < 1236796760 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I can already guess what it does < 1236796766 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just from the characters used < 1236796768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's obvious from the code < 1236796769 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/83rkc/very_clever_perlgolfed_arabictoromannumerals/ < 1236796771 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's nice to know for certain < 1236796778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: thanks, asshole < 1236796779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236796784 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ?? < 1236796787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 specifically said he wanted to work it out himself < 1236796793 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so don't click on the link < 1236796802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would work if the answer wasn't IN THE LINK < 1236796803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, since it was ehird I should have known it was on reddit... < 1236796804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1236796807 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I guessed what it did, I'm just trying to work out why < 1236796813 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[17:33] perl -lpe 's;.;y$IVCXL91-I0$XLMCDXVIII$dfor$I.=4x$&%1859^7;eg;$_=$I' < 1236796816 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you already told him it's obvious from the code < 1236796822 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, it's easier to work out what it does when I don't have to scrollback < 1236796823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: that doesn't mean anything in particular < 1236796826 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I assume we're all smart enough to realize what's obvious < 1236796841 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I admit I didn't notice it was in the link, though < 1236796896 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait < 1236796905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not $&x4, it's 4x$& < 1236796911 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that makes a big difference < 1236796978 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, it seems to arithmetically encode a lookup table of single digits to roman numerals < 1236796982 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and has code for multiplying roman numerals by 10 < 1236796990 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236796996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it alternates them in a loop, that's the basic algorithm < 1236797015 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads the reddit discussion < 1236797025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read the linked article < 1236797026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the discussion < 1236797030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is worthless) < 1236797037 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is worthless atm, I agree < 1236797045 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'll read the article next, reading the discussion was easy < 1236797053 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What article? < 1236797064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: don't tell me you don't have scrollback < 1236797073 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: he just joined < 1236797079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1236797082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/83rkc/very_clever_perlgolfed_arabictoromannumerals/ < 1236797098 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ty < 1236797184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it seems it was hand-obfuscated at the end while maintaining constant length < 1236797191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1236797192 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what explains the crazy choice of $ as a delimiter < 1236797212 0 :M0ny!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-93-123.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236797235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I pretty much understood how it worked, although I couldn't do the arithmetic lookup table in my head < 1236797240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi M0ny, by the way < 1236797263 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey < 1236797288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236797296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what < 1236797298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that program converts < 1236797304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :123456789000 to MMMMMMMMMMMMMMM < 1236797307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, overflow? < 1236797338 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't modify capital M when multiplying by 10 < 1236797343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also read that posting. Isn't this quite close to a perfect hash function that is as short as possible? < 1236797350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or have I misunderstood it < 1236797357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... um. sort of. < 1236797368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, it can't be overflow < 1236797373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adding more digits gives more < 1236797382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh because they're seperate ones < 1236797382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is overflow < 1236797383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1236797384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(lines) < 1236797387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it saturates at overflow < 1236797398 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to work out why the -l on the command line < 1236797421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: adds a newline, I think < 1236797428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird:~] % perl -pe 's;.;y$IVCXL91-I0$XLMCDXVIII$dfor$I.=4x$&%1859^7;eg;$_=$I'2 < 1236797428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :II3 < 1236797430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XXIII3 < 1236797432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CCXXXIII < 1236797447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just that < 1236797457 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it turns on autochomping, and adds a newline at end of line to compensate < 1236797463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1236797474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait a sec the posting is from 2004? And the reddit post from 7 hours ago? < 1236797482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so? < 1236797483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that way the program doesn't have to worry about compensating for an attempt to translate a newline into roman numerals < 1236797487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does it matter how old it is, AnMaster? < 1236797492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so you can post any old link on reddit? < 1236797500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as long as it is on the right topic of course < 1236797501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... why the heck not? < 1236797505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are only new things worthwhile...? < 1236797528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no, but only tracking new stuff making duplication avoiding easier < 1236797532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least < 1236797535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the only place newness is emphasised on reddit is the mainpage title (reddit.com: what's new online!), which most people don't see and was probably just a last-minute thing) < 1236797538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easier to find dups < 1236797541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's ridiculous, duplciation is good < 1236797547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not everybody sees things first time < 1236797569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why is it? Wouldn't keeping everything about something in one place be good? If there is some useful comment the first time it was posted < 1236797570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1236797581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reddit is about the links < 1236797583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the comments are a nice bonus < 1236797644 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, knowing me, I often try to infer the content of the links from the comments rather than clicking on them < 1236797650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only follow the links if the comments imply they're interesting to me < 1236797670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so you hate url shortening? < 1236797689 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how does that follow from what I said? < 1236797700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf AnMaster < 1236797704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I like it, but only in appropriate contexts < 1236797719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, because you can't see from the link itself what it means? < 1236797721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236797725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the COMMENTS < 1236797728 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you can't do that anyway, it's just an URL < 1236797729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the link text < 1236797732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he never even said that < 1236797735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w t f are you on about... < 1236797736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is one form of comment, an in-band comment < 1236797738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1236797750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :v_v < 1236797752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sigh < 1236797754 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I know that http://rickroll.com isn't a goatse? < 1236797761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I never said I was trying to make sense... < 1236797764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's parked, actually < 1236797768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For resources and information on Rick and Origin of Rock N Roll < 1236797778 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I was guessing parked, actually < 1236797790 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :second guess was an actual rickroll, or else a guide about them < 1236797860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw... why did kerlo remove the unicode from topic? In logs I only see " Who's been using Unicode in here?", " unicode is evil" and kerlo changing the topic + a few unrelated lines < 1236797876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares? < 1236797880 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey ehird < 1236797883 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how old is your mom < 1236797892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-3. integer overflow problem. < 1236797896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very tragic. < 1236797929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of URL shorteners, http://snipr.com/dltn2 < 1236797938 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's that a link to? < 1236797945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a website < 1236797951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a rickroll. nor goatse. < 1236797953 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that's getting somewhere < 1236797962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could have been an individual web /page/, for instance < 1236797967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it is < 1236797976 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a link to a rickroll-link-maker < 1236797976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, now it's a rick roll. < 1236797978 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so your first useful clue was actually wrong < 1236797986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a link to http://rickroll.tv/ < 1236797986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ah < 1236797989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it's a link to http://rickroll.tv/classic < 1236797992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it had two clicks < 1236797997 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :snipr allows retargetable URLs? < 1236798000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no < 1236798002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just redirects to < 1236798006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rickroll.tv/ < 1236798007 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ok < 1236798009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that inspects the referer < 1236798014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and counts up < 1236798014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1236798015 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rickroll.tv works once from each referer? < 1236798019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | sʞɔoɹ ǝpoɔıun < 1236798019 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's sort of clever < 1236798023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :configurable < 1236798027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(on ricktoll.tv) < 1236798028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236798031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rickroll.tb < 1236798032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236798035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck it < 1236798056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to RickRoll TV! On this channel, we (cuts to scene of Rick Astley) < 1236798064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1236798077 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in order to successfully rickroll, it has to make you think the rickroll isn't coming /yet/ < 1236798092 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because from the name, you know it's coming < 1236798291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is so bad with rickroll? I mean I don't like the music especially, but it isn't *that* bad. < 1236798302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not meant to be particularly bad < 1236798304 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because it gets in the way of useful links? < 1236798305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just cheesy < 1236798307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't all that bad, agreed < 1236798320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :randomly redirecting people to about:blank would be about as annoying, if it had become a meme < 1236798320 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I like rickrolls < 1236798327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierk: I could have guessed. < 1236798330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, be careful in what you say... < 1236798332 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not amazingly dangerous or annoying, but still annoying < 1236798332 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could < 1236798337 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you didn't < 1236798358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://tinyurl.com/18r < 1236798375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to http://preview.tinyurl.com/18r < 1236798385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed < 1236798387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how boring. < 1236798393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you can turn on preview by defaul. < 1236798393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1236798398 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, this is officially the new rickroll: trick people into looking at the tinyurl preview page for about:blank < 1236798403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hah < 1236798407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tinyurl.com: < 1236798410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is so twisted... < 1236798411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Hide your affiliate URLs < 1236798411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you posting something that you don't want people to know what the URL is because it might give away that it's an affiliate link? Then you can enter a URL into TinyURL, and your affiliate link will be hidden from the visitor, only the tinyurl.com address and the ending address will be visible to your visitors. < 1236798416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :]] < 1236798422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is etthics formed < 1236798429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: with one 't' < 1236798433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but doesn't preview work still? < 1236798435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how affiliate get clicked < 1236798439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: meme fail >:( < 1236798446 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know of that meme < 1236798450 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how is babby formed < 1236798453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yahoo answers < 1236798455 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can probably google it < 1236798459 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And get meaningful results < 1236798460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://encyclopediadramatica.com/Image:Babby.jpg < 1236798464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://images.encyclopediadramatica.com/images/2/29/Babby.jpg (to avoid ads) < 1236798469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :misses the answer, though. < 1236798472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ae has ads? < 1236798473 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are ads? < 1236798479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on ED? yes. < 1236798487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange < 1236798495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you never noticed it either? < 1236798495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, here's the answer: < 1236798496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They need to do way instain mother> who kill thier babbys. becuse these babby cant frigth back? it was on the news this mroing a mother in ar who had kill her three kids. they are taking the three babby back to new york too lady to rest my pary are with the father who lost his children ; i am truley sorry for your lots < 1236798503 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the flash movie is betetr < 1236798510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tombom: ais523 refuses to use flash < 1236798510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soo. < 1236798514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so do I < 1236798515 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ha < 1236798520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no flash here either < 1236798525 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, I also refuse to visit encyclopediadramatica < 1236798530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, same here < 1236798531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it comes to much the same thing either way < 1236798532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1236798541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except I directly linked to a jpg < 1236798545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of yahoo answers. < 1236798552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what on earth is the point in refusing to click that? < 1236798576 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ED's admin(s) don't take kindly to hotlinking, but I guess a few clicks from IRC are safe < 1236798587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't tell IRC from no-referrer-firewall < 1236798607 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure you can, just not accurately < 1236798615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? < 1236798621 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Record IPs < 1236798634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about them? what would you do with it < 1236798635 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: what to ED's admins do in response to hotlinks < 1236798641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you don't want to know. < 1236798641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*do ... ? < 1236798653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it involves replacing the image, and the page titled "Offensive" < 1236798656 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If IP went to image without going to the page of the image first, it came from somewhere else < 1236798670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, not offensive < 1236798672 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: replace it with goatse/tubgirl/etc panoramas and such < 1236798674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Offended" < 1236798678 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I guessed < 1236798684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: way worse than that, IME :P < 1236798694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you've experienced that? < 1236798694 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: 'and such' < 1236798699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like how [[Offended]] starts with cute rabbit pictures < 1236798705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: once < 1236798717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, um after you confirm that it came from elsewhere. Then what? < 1236798724 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't like how he apparently once got malware from ED < 1236798733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i find that very unlikely, Sgeo < 1236798738 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well if you get too many of those in a short while you replace the image < 1236798743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you couldn't know if it was IRC or email or IM or whatever < 1236798752 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, and it doesn't matter < 1236798761 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hotlinking is bad, period. < 1236798774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what about users using anonymous proxies? or such < 1236798779 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely they should just do the reverse solution to avoid hotlinks? < 1236798789 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, allow people to see the image only if the referrer is correct < 1236798789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err? < 1236798791 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than if it's wrong < 1236798800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that breaks no-referer-firewalls < 1236798805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of which there are a lot < 1236798809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, do they actually care about those? < 1236798822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it can break in other cases too < 1236798827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ED isn't in the business of being actively hostile to its users < 1236798833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like if you use history in the browser < 1236798834 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just other people's users < 1236798836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1236798841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in the business of being passively hostile to its subjects, and actively hostile to anyone else < 1236798849 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: sounds about right < 1236798987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a question < 1236799005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an answer? < 1236799008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to those on linux: any of you have a man page for gai.conf (section 5) < 1236799020 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I do < 1236799023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://linux.die.net/man/5/gai.conf < 1236799026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, from what package < 1236799035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ulrich Drepper wrote it. < 1236799038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes I know. I just can't find the man page on any of the systems I have < 1236799042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236799044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :glibc it seems < 1236799074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes I know what it is. Was just wondering why there was no man page *installed* for it. Since the config file does exist on several (but not all) of those systems < 1236799075 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs the dpkg-query < 1236799090 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's taking a while, I have lots of packages installed < 1236799094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1236799127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, LimeChat has a pastebin built in < 1236799140 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it work, via a dedicated website? < 1236799142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pasternak.superalloy.nl/pastes/1565 < 1236799151 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would love it so much if it just created a webserver on your system for that paste < 1236799152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it just uses some random pastebin < 1236799157 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's broken by NAT, probably < 1236799163 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid NAT, all sorts of things are broken by it < 1236799167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I didn't know dpkg-query could do it, now that you said debian has it I sshed to a debian system and indeed it exists there < 1236799169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems to be written by a ruby person, since limechat is a ruby thang that makes sense < 1236799177 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: libc6: /usr/share/man/man5/gai.conf.5.gz < 1236799188 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's in libc6 on debian < 1236799190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it would probably be faster if I ran it there, If I knew how to make dpkg-query do it < 1236799193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1236799196 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which agrees with what ehird thinks < 1236799202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it would make sense < 1236799203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: dpkg-query -S filename < 1236799203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google thinks < 1236799211 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only works if the file is currently installed via a package manager < 1236799216 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, it only searches packages you have < 1236799235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it was your choice to trust google on that < 1236799236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yeah, took about half a second. Though admittedly not as much is installed < 1236799343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to figure out how to write a gai.conf so it *prefers* IPv6 over IPv4. Getting IPv4 results back is pretty useless on an IPv6 only host... < 1236799355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ipv6 only? < 1236799360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236799366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a vps, with only ipv6 < 1236799366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also known as "paperweight" < 1236799367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no ipv4 < 1236799375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it's the future. Lets start early ;) < 1236799386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure not very useful yet. < 1236799396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering ipv6 adoption levels, it very well might not be the future < 1236799397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is looking forward to actually supported everywhere ipv6 due to hating NAT < 1236799444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, personally I hope NAT will be possible under ipv6, knowning my ISP they are the type who would only give you one ip and require paying a lot extra per extra IP... < 1236799460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nat under ipv6? fail... < 1236799468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I don't even have a static IP.... < 1236799470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a problem < 1236799472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor do I < 1236799476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no sane ISP would do that < 1236799488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are no sane ISPs < 1236799490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially in the UK < 1236799496 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't care about a dynamic IP nearly as much as I care that people can actually make incoming connections on arbitrary ports if I tell them my IP < 1236799501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about xs4all? < 1236799509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, list of sane ISPs: xs4all. < 1236799514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1236799520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably the best ISP in the UK, from what I grok, is Be < 1236799524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but Be aren't available here < 1236799526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:( < 1236799549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, iirc the TOS says something about only using one computer at the time, yet they ship adsl modem/router to customers, and it's pre-configured for NAT... < 1236799561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way that ends up as "sane" < 1236799565 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: which ISP is that? < 1236799570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Tele2 < 1236799579 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know Virgin Media actually require you to use Windows < 1236799579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tele2 my face < 1236799582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: WHAT < 1236799586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the contract < 1236799586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what? < 1236799590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: seriously < 1236799595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: tele2 pronounces sort of like tell-it-to < 1236799599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: SHDKJASHDJKAShdJKASDHKSDAD WHAT < 1236799603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's so they aren't sued when their windows-only setup program doesn't work < 1236799607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not in Swedish..., < 1236799615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, the contract doesn't prevent you using a different OS as well < 1236799618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but swedes are dirty, so to hell with them < 1236799622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: haha < 1236799631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the company is Scandinavian to begin with. < 1236799639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :harumph < 1236799649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even Swedish < 1236799651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :says wikipedia < 1236799659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't sure if it was Norwegian or Swedish < 1236799667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tele2 < 1236799711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://images.appshopper.com/screenshots/304/682626.jpg (John Gruber's user interface of the week) < 1236799734 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that good or bad? < 1236799742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you think? < 1236799742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :John Gruber? < 1236799747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googles < 1236799748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: of http://daringfireball.net/ < 1236799760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he... made Markdown. and writes that blog. for a living. it's about macs. < 1236799766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, however google won't answer "is this person stupid or cool" < 1236799772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236799775 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd find it usable, if that's all the space available < 1236799776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stupid and cool are opposites? < 1236799781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well not exactly < 1236799791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I didn't find the precise perfect words < 1236799807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"acool" is the cool word.* < 1236799808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*lies < 1236799809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, however that GUI looks a bit cluttered to me < 1236799816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... it's a sarcastic award. < 1236799939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, those on/off slider thingies doesn't make much sense to me..., first it seems more logical that marker is on item that is active (reverse here), second: what is wrong with check boxes? they are established and while there may be better ways to do it, checkboxes aren't that bad IMO < 1236799949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S A SARCASTIC AWARD < 1236799955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S AWARDED TO CRAP DESIGNS ;__; < 1236799956 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1236799957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :missed that < 1236799968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1236799971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a touch-screen < 1236799975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ON/OFF is the standard iphone checkbox < 1236799980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1236799981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's a lot easier to slide than a checkbox < 1236800008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, what about large check boxes?, Is tapping the screen hard? < 1236800036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :empirically, I find it a lot easier to tap wider-than-high things on a touchscreen < 1236800048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1236800051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get the same tappability with a checkbox, it'd be a lot taller < 1236800057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus use more of the limited screen < 1236800078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236800108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, this sarcastic award, where is more info about it? < 1236800125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't find it on his website. < 1236800128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any post on df.net starting with "User Interface of the Week:". < 1236800129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1236800135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1236800158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :users shouldn't need to scroll down, thats an usability problem~ < 1236800169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I get coughs and sneezes whenever I scroll < 1236800170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awful stuff < 1236800179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, users should only need to look at the screen, anything more is a usability problem~ < 1236800181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need to have four 30" screens in a rectangle < 1236800188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to avoid scrolling as much as possible < 1236800192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I use 7px type, max < 1236800197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236800203 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Ok. Just make a NBTV set < 1236800210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however this raises the privacy issue. since solving the usability issue would require mind reading.. < 1236800216 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really < 1236800225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NBTV? < 1236800227 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could use eye movements < 1236800229 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google it < 1236800232 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Narrow Band Television < 1236800237 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or mechanical TV < 1236800238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i already googled it, there's nothing relevant < 1236800250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even a WP article < 1236800265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierk, eye movements to navigate would still require more than minimal user effort < 1236800465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cleaning a computer for the lazy: Run program that hogs all of the CPU. Watch fans go to 100% speed. Relax. :P < 1236800474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*note: I am not responsible for any damage caused :| < 1236800582 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*note: does nothing, unless your fans are really bad or really good. < 1236800594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*note: I disclaim my walking to the ground. < 1236800616 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, 'narrow-band television' is basically ye old mechanical television. < 1236800661 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't take much more than a light bulb, a motor, a disk with holes in it, and a sound card. < 1236800709 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Quit" < 1236800809 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there's any use for NBTV < 1236801032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... wonder how long backing up a newly-installed system via ethernet would take < 1236801107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... tc seems to manage about 1:38 per gb < 1236801363 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236801388 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=arvid@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236801435 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.128 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236801488 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb me < 1236801607 0 :Jophish!n=Jophish@80-47-69-80.lond-hex.dynamic.dial.as9105.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1236801711 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Peace and Protection 4.22.2" < 1236801722 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know why 'noremap ' doesn't work as expected? < 1236801731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in what editor, vi? < 1236801749 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236801750 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vim < 1236801752 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at this point, I won't answer because I don't know, and ehird will start extolling the virtues of TECO < 1236801760 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can map 0, or C-a, but not C-0 < 1236802140 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://fuckyoupenguin.blogspot.com/2009/03/tibetan-fox-thinks-hes-better-than-you.html < 1236802327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1236802329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :os x supports klingon < 1236802332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take that, linux < 1236802376 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it almost certainly supports klingon too < 1236802384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but does gnome/kde? < 1236802388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :out of the box? < 1236802390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while you install? < 1236802398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ay? ay? < 1236802406 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks < 1236802445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it isn't installed by default AFAICT < 1236802453 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably they wanted to save space on the CD for more useful things < 1236802469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in OS X, you never see any english text apart from "Mac OS X" and the menus in the installation language selection screen. < 1236802478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is clearly far superior. the choice for discerning trekkies. < 1236802486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. < 1236802490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure it's an installer option. < 1236802494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you might have to do it post-install. < 1236802500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, Ubuntu was specifically designed to install in pretty much any language you wanted < 1236802511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lojban OS X would be fun < 1236802513 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although klingon doesn't seem ot be in that list < 1236802544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'd only need to install language-pack-gnome-tlh, language-pack-kde-tlh, and language-pack-tlh < 1236802553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the system would fully support klingon < 1236802579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's retarded, who the hell wants klingon < 1236802583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1236802622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strangely it appears to be an Ubuntu package, not a Debian one < 1236802637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.blogcdn.com/www.engadget.com/media/2009/02/2009-02-25sl-4.jpg <- wow, snow leopard strips down the number of processors a lot < 1236802647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost all 64-bit, too < 1236802654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236802656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :processes < 1236802668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aalthough the cpu usage diagram doesn't match the list < 1236802670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fishy < 1236802710 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it is designed to only show non-scary processes. < 1236802715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236802731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Process 1 (callhome) omitted FOR YOUR SAFETY." < 1236802739 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: processors, or processes? < 1236802752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:17 ehird: err < 1236802752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:17 ehird: processes < 1236802757 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that's filtered, obviously < 1236802760 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no init in that list < 1236802766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no init in my list, either < 1236802775 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor any other process with UID 1? < 1236802779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1236802782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : PID TTY TIME CMD < 1236802782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 1 ?? 0:02.29 /sbin/launchd < 1236802783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* PID 1 < 1236802785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X doesn't use init. < 1236802788 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1236802794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(launchd = init + cron + daemontools) < 1236802801 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I generally refer to any PID 1 process as init < 1236802807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and rc < 1236802810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and inted < 1236802837 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :init + cron is an interesting combination to have in the same file < 1236802841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I suppose it makes sense < 1236802851 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it also contain an atd? < 1236802870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((atd?)) < 1236802877 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: daemon for at < 1236802885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((at?)) < 1236802891 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: like cron, but only runs once < 1236802895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NAME < 1236802895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : at, batch, atq, atrm -- queue, examine, or delete jobs for later execu- < 1236802897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : tion < 1236802899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cute < 1236802902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's one of the options in a launchd thingy < 1236802905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to only run once < 1236802908 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1236802918 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I'm mildly surprised at and cron are different programs < 1236802933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do half a thing and do it acceptably! < 1236802933 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :atd's stuck in my mind because it's been broken on ubuntu-proposed for months < 1236802953 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :despite me telling them exactly where the bug was (although not where to fix it) < 1236802961 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*how to fix it < 1236802971 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finding the bug's normally the hard part, though, rather than fixing it < 1236803028 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to complain that there seem to be no timing-related things in launchctl man page, but it seems that there are StartCalendarInterval-like properties that can be specified with a .plist file for a job. < 1236803054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: try man launchd < 1236803059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, wait < 1236803061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :launchd.plist < 1236803071 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's where I got it from. < 1236803076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236803123 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :invoke-rc.d: initscript atd, action "start" failed. < 1236803125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dpkg: error processing at (--configure): < 1236803126 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : subprocess post-installation script returned error exit status 1 < 1236803132 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :happens on every single change to my package configuration < 1236803141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks that Ubuntu is not very responsive to bug reports < 1236803159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apple are responsive to bug reports, but you don't know because you can't access their bug tracker < 1236803162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only submit to it < 1236803166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not even "write-only" < 1236803172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's "creat-only" < 1236803183 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird < 1236803291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :https://bugs.launchpad.net/ubuntu/+source/at/+bug/158178 < 1236803359 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm actually slightly surprised a bug that manifests on every single change to the package manager hasn't annoyed more people by now < 1236803368 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe at isn't a standard package < 1236803383 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236803548 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Traditional init is also rather funny; telinit (the control tool) and actual init are a single binary, and unlike other people (who use something like argv[0] to decide how to act) init does "isinit = (getpid() == 1); ... if (!isinit) exit(telinit(p, argc, argv));" < 1236803561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1236804342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth < 1236804349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why the wth? < 1236804354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kde asked me what I wanted to do with a music cd I inserted < 1236804356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use hal afaik < 1236804361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did that happen... < 1236804364 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you use hotplug? < 1236804374 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that kde devices systray thing? < 1236804380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no and no < 1236804390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I do use udev, but for cd it shouldn't affect it < 1236804401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ I have root only no-auto mount in fstab for cd < 1236804420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1236804427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure this was on your computer? < 1236804435 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get confused sometimes when sshing around a lkot < 1236804436 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*lot < 1236804439 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, I strongly suspect you've got HAL on there. < 1236804450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also this haven't happened before, I played a cd yesterday with no issues < 1236804459 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. *Weird*. < 1236804464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: does /usr/lib/hal exist for you? < 1236804474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236804482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor /usr/lib64/hal < 1236804488 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/sbin/hald? < 1236804496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nop < 1236804501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor in bin < 1236804506 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wherever sbin stuff normally is for you < 1236804510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe kde has its own version of HAL or whatever < 1236804525 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Not only no but hell no. < 1236804530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well since it is KDE 3 and I haven't upgraded anything I have no idea < 1236804538 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might have in the KDE 2 days... < 1236804540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I wouldn't put it past KDE < 1236804541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean last upgraded was ~ 1 week ago < 1236804554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I haven't rebooted or restarted X since then < 1236804591 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KDE 3 did some of that *kind* of BS... They seem to have wised up since. < 1236804610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster uses KDE 3. < 1236804614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because KDE 4 sucks because: < 1236804616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) it's new < 1236804617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) it's flashy < 1236804620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3) it works too well < 1236804620 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@a-251.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1236804625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, that's what I've gleaned from him. < 1236804652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err it doesn't, I tested it, and I couldn't get it to look the same as kde 3. I *could* get my KDE 3 to look like KDE 2 almost perfectly < 1236804658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even close in KDE 4 < 1236804662 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.5 works rather solidly; only KDE 4.2 has gotten KDE 4 up to the point where it could sanely replace KDE 3. < 1236804669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, 3.5.9 here < 1236804681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, kde 4 cannot look precisely like kde 2! < 1236804681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :horrific. < 1236804693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's basically a crime against humanity < 1236804716 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KDE 4 still isn't really finished yet, I suspect < 1236804719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I fail to see why you are bothered that users have different taste? < 1236804720 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll probably be production-ready around 4.4 < 1236804727 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but 4.2 is at least of releasable quality < 1236804742 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am completely unsurprised that KDE 3 could look like KDE 2 with ease... After all, KDE 3 was little more than a port of KDE 2 to Qt 3. < 1236804743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no. I think KDE 4 it will be production ready around KDE 5.0 release < 1236804745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it doesn't help that you try and advertise your opinions to others whenever they, say, talk about how they like KDE4. < 1236804774 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'd say it's rather close now... < 1236804783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, So discussion and expressing opinions is forbidden now? < 1236804801 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell, my only complaints with it ATM is Amarok being somewhat screwy still, and K3B hasn't been ported yet. < 1236804807 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/is/are/ < 1236804819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, wouldn't that be K4B? < 1236804827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. But "Hey, KDE 4 is quite nice, it does such and such and such." "I don't like KDE4, too bloated, I use KDE 3.14" "Well, okay." "Ooh, this is nice about KDE 4, it—" "I don't like KDE4, too bloated, I use KDE 3.14" < 1236804829 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope. < 1236804835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Repeat ad infinitum, and perhaps you can see why it's goddamn annoying. < 1236804838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 3.14? < 1236804846 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :K3B = KDE Burn, Baby, Burn. < 1236804852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see < 1236804870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well though I very seldom use k3b, when I do want to burn a cd I use it... < 1236804894 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's either that or crack open cdrecord. < 1236804899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easier than checking the syntax/name for $current_cdrecord_replacement < 1236804915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I managed to get the original one back. < 1236804942 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cdrecord/cdrkit isn't hard to remember the syntax for if you're only using it to burn ISOs... < 1236804958 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cdrecord dev=/dev/scd0 foo.iso; Whoo. < 1236804961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, hearing cdrecord reminded me of a guy in #slicehost who was basically in internet-tears because his parents were complaining about him about something like spending too much time on the computer, and how they didn't understand that he maintained a "vital part of linux infrastructure" (= he contributed to a cd burning library that I've never heard of) < 1236804966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well usually I don't just burn ISOs < 1236804983 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of what I burn is ISOs. < 1236804989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jorg schilling is crazy < 1236805003 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in the rare case I'm not, mkisofs is probably sufficient. < 1236805003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all he does is go around all day saying how all non-original cdrecords are evil and broken < 1236805004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I need to remember mkisofs and/or how on earth to create music cds... < 1236805006 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Osm < 1236805013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Osm < 1236805015 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1236805020 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: "basically in internet-tears"? < 1236805022 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A typoed "Isn'". < 1236805023 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I've burned a music CD since middle school. < 1236805036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You come up with a better word. :P < 1236805036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err I'm *forced* to agree with him. the cdrkit fails to burn correct cd-rw in my drive < 1236805037 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to mention that it's Jörg, not Jorg < 1236805041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the original cdrecord works fine < 1236805048 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I think that either he was in internet-tears, or he wasn't < 1236805052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cdrkit just results in unreadable cds < 1236805053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's a non-original name! < 1236805059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm making fun of him, see. <-- excuse < 1236805064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I burn capacitors and diodes more often than CDs, probably < 1236805064 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Quite bizzare, considering cdrkit is a fork of cdrecord. < 1236805068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although not all that much recently < 1236805071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Schrödinger's internet tears < 1236805091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, yes, and in one case a erase of the cd-rw didn't even work... < 1236805100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is just crazy < 1236805100 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Freeow. < 1236805107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err? < 1236805126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googles < 1236805167 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No definitions were found for Freeow. < 1236805171 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :H2G2 reference, misspelt. < 1236805189 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't recall the right spelling. < 1236805193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... now that you mentions H2G2 it *does* sound slightly familiar < 1236805310 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Freeeow," he said. < 1236805316 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that was quite close. < 1236805500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, in which of the books? and context? < 1236805574 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Judiciary Pag, when pronouncing Krikkit's sentence at that trial thing. < 1236805591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't that from Mostly Harmless? < 1236805595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was one fucked up book < 1236805601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it isn't < 1236805606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236805608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while since I read h2g2 < 1236805610 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's from LTUAE < 1236805634 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole Krikkit/Hactar plot is in book 3, yes. < 1236805691 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He scratched his crotch reflectively. "Freeeow," he said. He took another sip of water, then held it up to the light and frowned at it. He twisted it round. "Hey, is there something in this water?" he said. "Er, no, m'lud," said the Court Usher who had brought it to him, rather nervously. "Then take it away," snapped Judiciary Pag, "and put something in it. I got an idea." < 1236805698 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a longer quote. < 1236805761 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The character does have a habit of similar noises. Later on, on the beach: "Weeeeelaaaaah!" said Zipo Bibrok 5 / 108, and you would have had to have been there to know exactly why he said this. < 1236805842 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's supposed to be something like 5 x 10^8 or some-such; I'm not sure why it's a / there. Maybe this is some sort of OCR digitalization. < 1236805854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't really remember what is in which book when you have an omnibus edition < 1236805870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I have an omnibus < 1236805872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's huge < 1236805881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GEB-sized < 1236805888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GEB being? < 1236805892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gödel,_Escher,_Bach < 1236805962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, Cambridge's dictionary - Advanced Edition is way larger and thicker though < 1236805977 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've mentioned this before, but on ircnet's #douglasadams we used to have a game where a bot pasted a small snippet (three lines, I think), and awarded a point to whoever was the quickest to correctly enter 1, 2, 3, 4 or 5, depending on which book the quote was from. < 1236805980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not really comparable, AnMaster :P < 1236805986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but the largest one I have would be one at 3 kg... < 1236805994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1236806011 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since book1 and book4 start almost identically, sometimes the game was a bit difficult. < 1236806018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ? < 1236806025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3kg book? < 1236806029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :correct < 1236806068 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@a91-153-121-248.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1236806088 0 :tombom!i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1236806121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1236806130 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, I remember when I first got my H2G2 omnibus for Christmas... < 1236806138 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read the whole thing in 12 hours. < 1236806140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the craziest thing about my GEB? < 1236806142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a fucking PAPERBACK < 1236806148 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jebus. < 1236806150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is the biggest paperback ever < 1236806160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, my H2G2 is paperback < 1236806161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you pick it up, a few gravitational collapses happen < 1236806164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and almost worn out < 1236806176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the spine is your mortal enemy < 1236806178 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did you read in 12 hours? < 1236806181 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: mine's a paperback too < 1236806196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's awful! < 1236806206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have GEB, so I can't comment on it < 1236806219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the book itself is great < 1236806229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also how come you haven't yet asked what the 3 kg book is? < 1236806233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wondering < 1236806238 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh geb < 1236806242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assumed you'd tell me, AnMaster < 1236806243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: no < 1236806244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :h2g2 < 1236806246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omnibus < 1236806247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :said pikhq < 1236806251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:15 pikhq: Ah, I remember when I first got my H2G2 omnibus for Christmas... < 1236806251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:15 pikhq: I read the whole thing in 12 hours. < 1236806252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so do you want to know or not? < 1236806255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely YOU have scrollback... < 1236806257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: sure. < 1236806260 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i see < 1236806263 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my heaviest book here is Kreyszig's Advanced Engineering Mathematics, 8th Edition (the paperback version, no less). Not that it's especially huge, mind you. I can't seem to find the specs, but the 9th edition hardcover has an amazon.com shipping weight of 2.2 kg. < 1236806273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, complete history of the US airforce (yes I'm very interested in aircraft stuff as you probably know) < 1236806294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the heaviest book of all time is SICP. SICP is the only acceptable book. All others cannot achieve the SATORI given by SICP. Have _you_ read your SICP today? < 1236806329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err SATORI? aspell likes it so I guess it has to mean something, but firefox just segfaulted.... < 1236806339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SATORI, n. The unique property given by SICP. < 1236806343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SICP, n. The book giving SATORI. < 1236806366 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Heaviest book I've got here is either my H2G2 omnibus or my Emacs manual. < 1236806373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah google was more helpful... now that firefox restarted... "(Zen Buddhism) a state of sudden spiritual enlightenment " < 1236806401 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They should bind TAOCP together in a single book, that'd be quite a brick. < 1236806406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, you have a printed emacs manual? < 1236806466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: in PAPERBACK < 1236806475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, would it beat Tolkins' famous trilogy in omnibus? < 1236806478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: do you keep trying to use emacs keybindings on it < 1236806489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :paper back of course < 1236806492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1236806511 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An eyeball-based comparison says that my three-book-hardcover TAOCP is a bit larger in volume than my three-book-hardcover LOTR. < 1236806521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for emacs manual I actually think the context sensitive help inside emacs would be way faste < 1236806524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :faster* < 1236806543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, hm < 1236806545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236806546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ^ < 1236806564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SICP is actually NP-complete. Reading it requires a SATORI-card. < 1236806568 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't be sure about this, but I think the individual books are also heavier, weight-wise. Certainly content-wise. < 1236806594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well content-wise of course... < 1236806669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw from google image search: http://ak.buy.com/db_assets/large_images/594/202468594.jpg < 1236806681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the spine? < 1236806684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really doesn't show how large or thick < 1236806711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the seal thing is embossed thingy, like sewn onto the cover... < 1236806718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that's not the spine < 1236806719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1236806742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well it is larger than A4 too. Wait I can measure the size < 1236806754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THE SPINE IS LARGER THAN AN A4 PIECE OF PAPER? < 1236806757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ONE BOOK? WHAT THE FUCK. < 1236806768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is PAPERBACK?! < 1236806781 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: there's a famous picture of what the OOXML standard looked like printed out < 1236806792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6x24x34 < 1236806798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cm < 1236806827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thickness width height < 1236806840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and not paper back no < 1236806844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1236806866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, spine, and fake leather on outside < 1236806884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236806886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many pages is it? < 1236806902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sed < 1236806904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sec* < 1236806931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :624, but the paper is very high quality thick and glossy < 1236806951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not photo level glossy, but slightly glossy < 1236806954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: publish Finnegan's Wake like that < 1236806955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236806968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or maybe an ayn rand book is longer) < 1236806975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1236806977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googles < 1236807094 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok found a pic showing how thick it was < 1236807096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1236807110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1000+ pages < 1236807116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the US airforce one is not as thick as it is large in other directions mainly < 1236807146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean I think I have seen a dictionary thicker than it, but not as large format. I have to have it on the top shelf, doesn't fit elsewhere... < 1236807179 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kreyszig: 25.5 cm high, 20 cm wide, 6 cm thick; number of pages... uh, last page is I-20. Before I-1 there's A97. They're not making this easy. Before A1 comes page 1156. And before page 1 there's page xvi. So I guess the lower bound is 16+1156+97+20 = 1289 pages. < 1236807209 0 :Jophish!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236807232 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you read it? < 1236807238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that is *far* from the 34 cm high and 23 wide... < 1236807238 0 :Jophish!n=Jophish@80-47-79-201.lond-hex.dynamic.dial.as9105.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1236807266 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's still >2 kg, though. Dense stuff. < 1236807270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1236807284 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: A reasonable percentage of it, but not comprehensively. < 1236807304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also the page count I gave above was large numbered page. So add uh *checks* 4 to that < 1236807322 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: are you an advanced engineer then? < 1236807327 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1236807332 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :advanced engineering mathematician < 1236807335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, "Kreyszig"? I can't find any book with that name with google < 1236807339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only people with that name < 1236807343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236807347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course it's a name < 1236807351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236807352 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I did mention the complete name of the book, earlier. < 1236807355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tons of textbooky things are referred to by their name < 1236807356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. K&R < 1236807357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks < 1236807357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236807359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by their author's, names < 1236807366 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Advanced Engineering Mathematics, 8th Edition. < 1236807374 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: tons of textbooky things are referred to by their name too, though < 1236807379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236807379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you were right first time as well < 1236807386 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: I'm not very advanced. Maybe I should've read more. < 1236807387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, TAOCP? SICP? < 1236807401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People have cited TAOCP as Knuth, in my experience. < 1236807410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SICP is, of course, [b]The Sussman[/b]. < 1236807412 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just refer to books by their isbn < 1236807423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "the wizard book" < 1236807427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you say [b]The Sussman[/b] too much, your [b]Satori[/b] is revoked. < 1236807461 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :While looking for Kreyszig, I also came across "Seven-place values of trigonometric functions", "compiled by dr. J. Peters". This is a small book, but on the other hand it's useless too. < 1236807475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, http://mitpress.mit.edu/sicp/full-text/book/cover.jpg lists three authors btw. < 1236807477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1236807488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Abelson is filthy traitor of Forced Indentation of Code. < 1236807495 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: lol just a massive list? :D < 1236807499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Julie Sussman is The Sussman's alter-ego. < 1236807518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything I say is indisputable. Brb -> < 1236807519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about that book < 1236807526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10000 random numbers or something? < 1236807526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236807527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<- < 1236807528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even more < 1236807529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's useful. < 1236807538 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But on the front inner cover it has a taped-on label: "This book has been presented to Finland by the Government of the United States of America, under Public Law 265, 81st Congress, as an expression of the friendship and good will which the people of the United States hold for the people of Finland." < 1236807540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes but it should be rather thick and heavy right? < 1236807544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1236807544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1236807581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, uh.... ? < 1236807592 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what it says; I don't know what it means. < 1236807593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like crazy < 1236807597 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: so they love us enough to write a 2 minute python script to generate the table? < 1236807621 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Originally published in Germany as Siebenstellige Werte der Trigonometrischen Funktionen"; Copyright, 1918, 1938. < 1236807622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, a joke label on your copy? If it is second hand I'd guess so < 1236807624 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit old. < 1236807629 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's no joke. < 1236807634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1236807643 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it was donated to our university library; that's where I got it from. < 1236807649 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not much python scripting back then. < 1236807676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well googling for "Public Law 265, 81st Congress" did return relevant results... < 1236807682 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1236807688 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi oerjan! < 1236807694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi! < 1236807696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hiwc < 1236807705 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats AnMaster -----### < 1236807711 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi all < 1236807747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, btw I need to borrow your frying pan. Firefox segfaulted randomly a lot today... And KDE decided to start asking about CDs that I insert... < 1236807811 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: maybe you caught a virus that silently replaced Linux with Windows whilst trying to keep everything looking the same so you didn't notice < 1236807813 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1236807842 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: was it you who won the wolfram thing? < 1236807847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, then they should provide it for windows as a replacement for cygwin. I mean I done lots of POSIX specific programming today < 1236807854 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: yes < 1236807885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you ask, by the way? < 1236807958 0 :neldoret1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1236807968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also wth, yesterday xine refused to show track names for this cd, and I knew it was in freedb (checked with cd-info), this morning it showed them. Now it doesn't again... < 1236807978 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236807990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, either windows or centos. Hard to say... < 1236808004 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what does uname display? < 1236808015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux tux.lan 2.6.27-gentoo-r8-1 #1 Sat Jan 31 04:55:36 CET 2009 x86_64 AMD Sempron(tm) Processor 3300+ AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux < 1236808028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what I would expect it to say < 1236808052 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have been thourough and faked that, too. < 1236808058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1236808077 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's a windsor sauce pan, not a frying pan. but here you are. ===\___/ < 1236808104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, question about usage, it isn't "swats", what is the right word? < 1236808109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hits"? < 1236808141 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236808145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or? < 1236808177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't really "swat" with a sauce pan < 1236808182 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"bash" might do < 1236808187 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah "hits". < 1236808193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hits Firefox with oerjan's sauce pan ===\___/ < 1236808196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hits KDE with oerjan's sauce pan ===\___/ < 1236808202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hits xine with oerjan's sauce pan ===\___/ < 1236808212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ahnds the sauce pan back to oerjan  < 1236808214 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i think "clobbers" is also a nice word < 1236808215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hands* < 1236808241 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see you used it well ===\/\/ < 1236808252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also linux can fake uname. How else would this work: < 1236808253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : $ linux32 uname -a < 1236808253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux tux.lan 2.6.27-gentoo-r8-1 #1 Sat Jan 31 04:55:36 CET 2009 i686 AMD Sempron(tm) Processor 3300+ AuthenticAMD GNU/Linux < 1236808255 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sends it for repairs < 1236808259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meant for 32-bit chroots < 1236808262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, no need < 1236808264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can fix it < 1236808274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, just hand it back < 1236808277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a sec < 1236808287 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok ===\/\/ < 1236808306 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: is there a 32-bit version of linux32? < 1236808308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION turns oerjan's sauce pan upside down and hits KDE again ===/^^^\ < 1236808321 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :marvelous technique < 1236808322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there is probably some nifty unicode for line at top < 1236808327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't know it < 1236808349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, there is, and I have it installed < 1236808362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so the corrugated ^^^ is just a rendering issue < 1236808374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you turn it you will see it is perfectly flat < 1236808381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hands the saucepan back to oerjan  < 1236808394 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks the saucepan carefully ===\___/ < 1236808413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that makes no sense on 32-bit linux < 1236808423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it only makes sense if you can run more than one ABI < 1236808427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like AMD64 < 1236808440 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523@dell:~$ setarch i686 < 1236808442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523@dell:~$ uname -a < 1236808443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux dell 2.6.27-11-generic #1 SMP Thu Jan 29 19:24:39 UTC 2009 i686 GNU/Linux < 1236808447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236808454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :course it makes sense < 1236808458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it doesn't change shell? < 1236808460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, it doesn't change anything < 1236808461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or? < 1236808462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes it does < 1236808470 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the new shell looked identical to the old one < 1236808486 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you expect it to look different? < 1236808501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I almost always use the linux32 symlink with "chroot" < 1236808516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so I wasn't aware of that it defaulted to "new shell" < 1236808537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, setarch --help lists more interesting stuff < 1236808638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Unknown language "-" < 1236808641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from lisp paste < 1236808645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure what went wrong < 1236808665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait I see < 1236808668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forget it < 1236808713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, my setarch has all these options: http://paste.lisp.org/display/76852 maybe it varies between platforms < 1236808735 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :setarch changes the uname system call that programs use to decide what libraries to load, etc < 1236808753 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have the same version of setarch as you, more or less < 1236808754 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the same options < 1236808764 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux32 is a symlink to setarch, or a wrapper around it < 1236808767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm. How does it change the uname system call? < 1236808783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, presumably there's an API for doing that sort of thing < 1236808814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't LD_PRELOAD since it works on statically linked busybox < 1236808819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ setarch i686 /bin/busybox uname -a < 1236808819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux tux.lan 2.6.27-gentoo-r8-1 #1 Sat Jan 31 04:55:36 CET 2009 i686 unknown < 1236808830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ /bin/busybox uname -a < 1236808830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux tux.lan 2.6.27-gentoo-r8-1 #1 Sat Jan 31 04:55:36 CET 2009 x86_64 unknown < 1236808847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah strace told me: < 1236808848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personality(PER_LINUX32) = 0 < 1236808851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth? < 1236808859 0 :atrapado!n=nnn@cm19117.red91-117.mundo-r.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1236808866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is great. Linux has *split personalities* < 1236808869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236808880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SYNOPSIS < 1236808880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : #include < 1236808880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int personality(unsigned long persona); < 1236808906 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"04:44 PM" < 1236808908 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1236808912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, err? < 1236808923 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means 16:44 < 1236808971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1236808983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enum { blah = 0, }; < 1236808987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that supposed to work? < 1236808989 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's legal < 1236809001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, shouldn't there be some type name for the enum somewhere? < 1236809003 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trailing commas are allowed inside enums in C < 1236809005 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The swatter requires oerjan-nature. :( < 1236809007 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MU < 1236809008 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's for people who have a #define rash. < 1236809020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and the comma wasn't the issue... < 1236809023 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: implicit int IIRC < 1236809036 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternatively, smallest integer that fits them all < 1236809048 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ger/gral/ < 1236809090 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and the lack of typename, I think it's legal < 1236809096 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if no typename and no variable is legal < 1236809096 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but enum { blah = 0, } foo; is certainly legal < 1236809097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, from /usr/include/sys/personality.h (but not as short) < 1236809097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and no variable < 1236809097 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like struct { int bar; } quux; is legal < 1236809097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean what use would struct { int bar; }; be ?! < 1236809097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well for enum it could still be used though < 1236809104 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing, but for enum it is legal. < 1236809107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, just I would have expected either enum foo { ... }; or a typedef < 1236809116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1236809139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1236809145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no docs what the flags do there < 1236809159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STICKY_TIMEOUTS, WHOLE_SECONDS? < 1236809160 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C has structural bars < 1236809171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean ADDR_LIMIT_3GB is quite self explaining... < 1236809179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but whole seconds where? < 1236809233 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it disables an optimisation, normally if your computer isn't doing anything for a while it uses the excess processing power to do a bit of timetravel, small fractions of each second are sent back to kernel.org where they can be stockpiled for restoring the Earth in the case of an apocalypse < 1236809248 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some people don't like programs that call home, so the option's there to turn it off < 1236809258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that humor is just too absurd... < 1236809275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hah < 1236809293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, MMAP_PAGE_ZERO? < 1236809304 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: heh, I've just realised what that would do < 1236809309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1236809312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would mean that NULL would become a legal pointer-to-data < 1236809317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1236809345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you can still on x86 mmap() at 0, for example if you are going to mess with vm86() < 1236809435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, atm I'm grepping kernel source to find WHOLE_SECONDS and STICKY_TIMEOUTS... the other flags I can make quite educated guesses about < 1236809525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1236809527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is strange < 1236809528 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION chops a second in two and donates half to science < 1236809537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is only mentioned in Documentation and header file < 1236809540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowhere in source... < 1236809541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?! < 1236809550 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On a C64 you have to be tricky of you want to write to the first two bytes; there's memory-mapped registers at locations 0 and 1. < 1236809571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hardware registers? < 1236809581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, non-cpu ones? < 1236809601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a PIC, reading from or writing to address 0 is how you do indirect addressing < 1236809613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth < 1236809619 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shouldn't the constant be used on the source < 1236809622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried several < 1236809625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and found nothing < 1236809651 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Address 0 controls the read/read-write mode of address 1, while 1 has a couple of rather random bits related to the "MMU" and other stuff. < 1236809724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok STICKY_TIMEOUTS hit something < 1236809741 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually it's called "processor port", so they might be implemented in the CPU; maybe they toggle some CPU pins or something. It's been a couple of years since I last even saw a 6510. < 1236809783 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it seems that the address 0/1 stuff is pretty much what differentiates a 6510 (used in C64) from a 6502; there's a 6-bit I/O port in it, controlled by that register. < 1236809785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems related to select() timeout < 1236809790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure about details < 1236809886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it would mean that NULL would become a legal pointer-to-data < 1236809887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236809889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not exactly < 1236809916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : error = do_mmap(NULL, 0, PAGE_SIZE, PROT_READ | PROT_EXEC, < 1236809916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : MAP_FIXED | MAP_PRIVATE, 0); < 1236809942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SVr4 compat... < 1236809964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't even know linux emulated that ABI < 1236809964 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PROT_NONE for 100% safety! < 1236810030 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1236810422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:57 AnMaster: not sure what went wrong < 1236810425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, what happened? < 1236810429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the issue? < 1236810446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, do you mean the KDE thing, the Firefox thing or the xine thing? < 1236810451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisppaste < 1236810453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :language - < 1236810454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236810455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236810456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you do < 1236810458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisppaste - lang? < 1236810459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of < 1236810461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisppaste lang - < 1236810462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no < 1236810467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what then? < 1236810470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisppaste - <(command) < 1236810480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should work < 1236810485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no < 1236810487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it expands to < 1236810495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236810495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lisppaste - /dev/fd/23 < 1236810497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1236810497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1236810505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmm < 1236810508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should make the title configurable < 1236810514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"/dev/fd/63" is not very helpful < 1236810523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why 63? < 1236810528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://paste.lisp.org/display/76853 < 1236810532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/dev/fd/63 < 1236810537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1236810552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it came up as Anonymous; haven't you set LISPPASTE_USER? < 1236810572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no, I don't like polluting our environment < 1236810578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1236810589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you can just $EDITOR `which lisppaste` < 1236810590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and put < 1236810592 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LISPPASTE_USER=AnMaster < 1236810593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in < 1236810601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um it isn't in PATH < 1236810610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$EDITOR /path/to/lisppaste < 1236810618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I don't know why you want a command line tool if not for PATH convenienc < 1236810619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1236810648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~/bin/lisppaste is a symlink to ~/irc/freenode/esoteric/ehird/lisppaste < 1236810662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ~/bin is in your path is it not? < 1236810666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it isn't < 1236810669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O < 1236810673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that would be insecure! < 1236810675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~~ < 1236810683 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: is your home partition mounted noexec? < 1236810683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, you could give yourself a virus < 1236810697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no it isn't actually < 1236810703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but it might be a good idea < 1236810706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DON'T GIVE HIM IDE— < 1236810707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I weren't a programmer < 1236810725 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: even if I gave AnMaster an IDE, he probably wouldn't use it < 1236810728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1236810729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: do you think adding paste annotation is a worthy feature? < 1236810732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how I'd do it < 1236810741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe if you give a number instead of or with a language < 1236810741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Indeed I prefer SATA < 1236810743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd annotate that paste < 1236810756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% lisppaste 76853 <(setarch --help) < 1236810768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I shall make a language called 76853 < 1236810777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it shall be a HQ9+ variant < 1236810779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you have to get p.lisp.org to support it < 1236810788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because I can't think anything else up right now) < 1236810798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ok true < 1236810837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird:/Previous Systems.localized/2009-02-11_1200/Users/ehird/Documents/Code] % find <-- searching for old code gives me a wonderous prompt of verbosity < 1236810934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why "Previous System" < 1236810946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's the system before my upgrade to leopard < 1236810948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Archive & Install < 1236810948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember that back on pre-OS X and old windows. All the reinstalls < 1236810955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that seems strange < 1236810965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I'm not just attacking OS X < 1236810969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a nice excuse to clean out my system :P < 1236810971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm attacking lots of other OS too < 1236810975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, upgrades are generally flaky on most OSes. < 1236810984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even Linux can be a bit odd after a full distro release upgrade. < 1236810985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Windows and many linux distros < 1236810994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, exactly. Which is why I prefer rolling release < 1236811001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have good upgrade handling < 1236811004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rolling release is pretty good, but not really commercializable < 1236811007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it happens so often < 1236811014 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236811017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :commercial software is pretty much a ghetto of releases < 1236811026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I guess you can make more money that wya < 1236811028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :way* < 1236811039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what distros apart from arch and gentoo use rolling release? < 1236811044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :None that I know of. < 1236811048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1236811052 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: rolling release is trivially commercialisable, just make someone rent the OS not buy it < 1236811055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about that one with insane paths < 1236811057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what was the name < 1236811061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gobolinux < 1236811062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gobolinux < 1236811062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1236811064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, many computer games are becoming episodic nowadays < 1236811068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would call it 'sane' < 1236811074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Ugh, I would hate to rent an OS < 1236811081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ok, lets ignore that wording for a second < 1236811093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eww, renting a OS < 1236811096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way < 1236811111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean the security concerns < 1236811120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since they have to be able to take it back somehow < 1236811123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an EULA is as far as I'll go for digital purchasing thingies < 1236811145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't accept an EULA that either isn't GPL or very short < 1236811147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not happy with OS X's EULA forbidding installation on non-macs, either < 1236811153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: GPL is a license, not an EULA < 1236811169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, true, but it does partly fill the same function < 1236811170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :licenses just cover distribution, EULAs cover use < 1236811177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok true < 1236811225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes people using windows auto-installer-creators put the GPL in the EULA slot < 1236811230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1236811235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the installer can't grasp that an EULA might not be wanted < 1236811236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets see. I haven't bought an OS since I got my ibook ages ago < 1236811240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first model ibook < 1236811241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. A game called "Stalin VS Martians". < 1236811262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah yes indeed I have seen that < 1236811265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to be about Stalin, fighting martians. < 1236811287 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've also seen auto-installer things just put in the EULA "This work is licensed under the GPL."... < 1236811293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, link? < 1236811298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stalinvsmartians.com/en/ < 1236811299 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, presumably you agree that it is, in fact, GPL'd. < 1236811300 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1236811302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trailer: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGnNbKfpx9k < 1236811305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to be a RTS < 1236811316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1236811341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never thought I'd see a cheerful 3D Stalin dancing. < 1236811458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a joke right? < 1236811463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a real game. < 1236811468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The trailer appears to be un-serious-ly. < 1236811469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way < 1236811491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://stalinvsmartians.com/screenshot0003.jpg < 1236811497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pre-emptively deem it Game of the Year. < 1236811523 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow. < 1236811557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that trailer made by the company or as a joke by someone else? < 1236811564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :company < 1236811570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way. again < 1236811578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Vopros: Can we play as Stalin himself? < 1236811578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Otvet: Yes, but not from the start. Stalin is our commander and he gives us orders. Closer to the grand finale he will appear on the battlefield as a playable unit - a huge colossus, five times higher than any other creature. Just like it was in the real life.]] < 1236811600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...? < 1236811606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From their FAQ. < 1236811615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is this company? < 1236811622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Three companies, apparently. < 1236811630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :major ones or? < 1236811638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A BWF/DREAMLORE/N-GAME CO-PRODUCTION". < 1236811640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Never heard of them. < 1236811643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1236811655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bwf-game.com/ < 1236811659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dreamloregames.com/ < 1236811659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ngsdev.com/ < 1236811665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Latter two are in russian. < 1236811691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH MY FUCKING GOD < 1236811693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nabble.com/-scala--URGENT%3A-Please-read-if-you-have-any-information-about-Tony-Morris-to22462911.html < 1236811727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1236811731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth < 1236811740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Update: We've received information about Tony's home address that we believe to be current. The police are sending a team there now." < 1236811743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's hope it's not too late... < 1236811750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1236811758 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the police were there < 1236811761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agh, he's left on his bike... < 1236811763 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he left on a motorbike < 1236811771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: hello, ehird < 1236811872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, they arrived 1 second apart here < 1236811894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, possibly less from lament's point of view < 1236811900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably even < 1236811956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After me and another mentioned it: < 1236811956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:51 Eridius: this discussion is already in #haskell-blah < 1236811958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What a fuckwit. < 1236811968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw that thing on nabble... I never heard of this person < 1236811976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's in the scala/haskell etc communities < 1236812108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw what is nabble exactly? < 1236812108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: do you know what system var to set to add to gcc's default include path? < 1236812113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nabble is a mailing list archiver < 1236812118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was posted to the scala mailing list < 1236812129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no not off the top of my head < 1236812146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I would use command line instead < 1236812155 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HELP < 1236812158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm installing with RubyGems, so < 1236812158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or for autotools CPPFLAGS < 1236812161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: WHAT < 1236812162 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is vim indenting two tabs when I press enter < 1236812171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have autoindent set < 1236812173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except fucked < 1236812174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess. < 1236812178 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :autoindent: uses the indent from the previous line. < 1236812186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cindent, then < 1236812187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or w/e < 1236812203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, modify the file that calls gcc? < 1236812205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems easiest < 1236812208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh, no. < 1236812211 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1236812214 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::set nocindent worked < 1236812215 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not from vimrc < 1236812216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also check if rubygem has a way to do it < 1236812228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex, does the file include one of those mode lines? < 1236812248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, C_INCLUDE_PATH < 1236812260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is that the rubygem one? < 1236812262 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236812263 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :per buffer < 1236812264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236812264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc < 1236812267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236812269 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: maybe it's set automatically from a language-specific setup file? < 1236812282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about modeline? < 1236812289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the file < 1236812377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1236812389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird, btw what is nabble exactly? < 1236812390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well? < 1236812395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I answered. < 1236812399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236812401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1236812403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see now < 1236812406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :missed it < 1236812412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night anyway < 1236812652 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1236812655 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god I love vim < 1236812659 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it takes me to the line with an error < 1236812691 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: what editor doesn't do that? < 1236812696 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously? < 1236812709 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even BC++ for Windows did that ten years ago, and it was pretty rubbish < 1236812934 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird! :D < 1236812957 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: kate? :p < 1236812971 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any IDE will do it, but vim grabs the line from the make error < 1236812973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: http://www.nabble.com/-scala--URGENT%3A-Please-read-if-you-have-any-information-about-Tony-Morris-to22462911.html < 1236812978 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: so does emacs < 1236812980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just linking in case there's anything you can do) < 1236812983 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't use emacs < 1236812996 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird < 1236813001 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you see what i commented on earlier? < 1236813005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. What? < 1236813075 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ (x,y) : x,y in N, &(x,y) = 0 } < 1236813083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, yes. < 1236813090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sierpinski shows up everywhere. < 1236813107 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know :o < 1236813109 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1236813111 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is tony morris? < 1236813138 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dobblego from #haskell, apparently < 1236813145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka dibblego < 1236813149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also on programming reddit. < 1236813168 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno him. < 1236813320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I hate to break this to you but they took tin foil off the market years ago, its all aluminum now, the tin stuff worked. < 1236813325 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best conspiracy theory ever < 1236813330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1236813331 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.amzi.com/articles/prolog_under_the_hood.htm < 1236813334 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should 'ail.' read 'fail.'? < 1236813346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hurnan should read human, too. < 1236813364 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the reminds me of a joke some irish comedian told < 1236813388 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"whats this 'aluminum foil' americans use? noone says 'aluminum foil', thats all wrong! everyone knows its said 'tin foil'." < 1236813436 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Peace and Protection 4.22.2" < 1236813494 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my brief browsings on the stuff make me believe a tinfoil hat is a useless mind control ray stopper, as the open bottom prevents it from being an efficient faraday cage < 1236813514 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to be safe, you need a tinfoil burka < 1236813534 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a fine metal mesh over the eyes < 1236813588 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and closed at the bottom < 1236813601 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess steel shoes would do < 1236813605 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tinfoil catsuit < 1236813632 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googles for tinfoil burka and gets several hits < 1236813783 0 :kwertii!n=kwertii@c-71-202-121-102.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236813793 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236814827 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Abandonando" < 1236815095 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236815281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: what's that formula, again? < 1236815309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ (x `band` y) == 0 | x <- [0..w], y <- [0..h] ] < 1236815310 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ (x,y) : x,y in N, &(x,y) = 0 } < 1236815310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right? < 1236815316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where band = bitwise and. < 1236815333 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yah but you dont want [ (band x y) == 0 ...] < 1236815345 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"..." < 1236815349 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that'll just give you [T,F,T,...] < 1236815352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. < 1236815352 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you want the points themselves < 1236815355 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should be a condition, not the result < 1236815356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er? < 1236815364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was using mine to draw a bitmap. < 1236815369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where False = black and True = white. < 1236815387 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236815392 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but whats the type of that list? < 1236815396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[Bool]. < 1236815399 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1236815407 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can you draw a bitmap for that? :P < 1236815411 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its just a list of bools < 1236815420 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need a list of point-bool pairs < 1236815430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you know w and h. < 1236815437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you take w elements, and go down one. < 1236815448 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[(x `band` y) == 0 | x <- [0..w]] | y <- [0..h]] might be better < 1236815449 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yyyyyes but thats not what you wrote :) < 1236815464 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what you wrote was just a list of T,F < 1236815475 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a list of what points are T and what are false < 1236815510 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway you obviously dont need to code it like that < 1236815522 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION starts swatting psygnisfive then thinks better of it < 1236815523 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just doubly iterate < 1236815524 0 :neldoreth!n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth JOIN :#esoteric < 1236815529 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you swatting me? < 1236815533 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what i say is true! < 1236815534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sierpinski :: Integer -> Integer -> [(Integer,Integer)] < 1236815535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sierpinski w h = [ (x,y) | x <- [0..w], y <- [0..h], x .&. y == 0 ] < 1236815545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now to write the rest -> < 1236815545 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly. < 1236815554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very beautiful formula, though. < 1236815558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even nicer than the chaos game. < 1236815564 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but im not writing it in haskell so :p < 1236815585 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i odnt know haskell's image generating utilities < 1236815594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just generate console output :P < 1236815605 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose. but i dont know how to do that either :D < 1236815611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :putChar < 1236815650 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or putStr after you combine everything < 1236815667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sierpinski' :: Integer -> Integer -> [[Bool]] < 1236815667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sierpinski' w h = [ [ x .&. y == 0 | x <- [0..w] ] | y <- [0..h] ] < 1236815670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ easier to use < 1236815675 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose actually you could just do something like... build the appropriate [[Char]]s and then map putChar < 1236815676 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1236815684 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i dont really care, so < 1236815685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :map putChar = putStr, duh. < 1236815701 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1236815705 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there you have it < 1236815707 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mapM_, technically < 1236815710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes yes < 1236815893 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its pretty nifty tho innit ehird < 1236815925 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something so simple as &(N,N) gives you the sierpinski gasket < 1236815929 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :putStr . unlines . map (map (\b -> if b then '*' else ' ')) $ sierpinski' w h < 1236815931 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe. < 1236815935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1236815936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wrote that < 1236815938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finalizing it now < 1236815982 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1236816020 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what was the Golly program that you had that generated the dual gasket + randomness? < 1236816029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1236816029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :straight line < 1236816036 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we went over this already :P < 1236816042 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesnt produce that in GoL < 1236816048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crooked line < 1236816059 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why dont you make it work and then send me the file < 1236816075 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how long does it need to be? i tried some in mcell but i don't think i got it big enough. < 1236816080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: psygnisfive: http://hpaste.org/fastcgi/hpaste.fcgi/view?id=2322 < 1236816086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Complete sierpinski program in Haskell. < 1236816090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Including command line parsing :P < 1236816093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In 19 lines! < 1236816100 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236816106 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme do it in ruby! :o < 1236816113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good luck getting as pretty < 1236816122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% runhaskell sierpinski.hs 30 30 a < 1236816122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sierpinski.hs: usage: sierpinski [w h] < 1236816122 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :intercalate "\n" is unlines < 1236816123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1236816125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ermove "sierpinski" < 1236816141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ? < 1236816151 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, except the final \n < 1236816173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: psygnisfive: http://hpaste.org/fastcgi/hpaste.fcgi/view?id=2322#a2323 < 1236816174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :updated < 1236816175 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does unlines fo, anyway < 1236816177 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*do < 1236816186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: [[String]] -> [String] < 1236816188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adds \ns./ < 1236816194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236816201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, psygnisfive, if you can get it that elegant in that short as code I'll be very impressed < 1236816205 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you may have guessed, I have a highlight on the word "INTERCAL" < 1236816207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is exceedingly godo at this type of stuff < 1236816210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and apparently it's case-insensitive < 1236816210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1236816211 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh < 1236816218 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose it depends on your notion of elegant ;) < 1236816219 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exceedingly Godot < 1236816232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: end end end end end is very elegant. < 1236816233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not. < 1236816239 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :}}}}} < 1236816241 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236816246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: < 1236816247 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: intercalate is a recent addition, no more than a couple years < 1236816256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck yeah indentation. < 1236816259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I also have a highlight on the word "ais523" < 1236816270 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, indentation just messes up too many things that don't come up very often < 1236816283 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen whitespace borkage far too often to be comfortable with it < 1236816307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WFM < 1236816330 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: for instance, what if you're trying to type a python program over a serial cable by hand? < 1236816336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't do that. < 1236816339 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you really don't want to have to type out the indentation in that case < 1236816348 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: exactly, that's a limitation of the language < 1236816355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% runhaskell sierpinski.hs 0 0 < 1236816355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* < 1236816356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, an off by one < 1236816365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1236816370 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, tabs vs. spaces < 1236816380 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally not a problem, you can just automatically reindent < 1236816383 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huge problem in Python < 1236816394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tabs in Python produce a warning < 1236816400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on every run < 1236816401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :problem solve < 1236816402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d < 1236816411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, now you're just inflating code size for no reason < 1236816423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by SEVERAL BYTES < 1236816436 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: whitespace is a substantial proportion of a typical python program < 1236816441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially at 4-space indentation < 1236816442 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1236816444 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pastie.org is down D: < 1236816447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, it is < 1236816455 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what can i use instead :| < 1236816458 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so much for ehird's permanent pastes for helping logreaders things < 1236816464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use rafb.net, it annoys ehird < 1236816465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rafb deletes permanently < 1236816468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pastie just happens to be down < 1236816471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: paste.lisp.org < 1236816496 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :has no ruby < 1236816506 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ok < 1236816506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what < 1236816507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have eyes < 1236816539 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://paste.lisp.org/display/76862 < 1236816547 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two eyes live, one eye dies. < 1236816564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hpaste.org/fastcgi/hpaste.fcgi/view?id=2322#a2323 is more readable, more elegant and quicker < 1236816569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1236816572 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you missed command line arg processing < 1236816576 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont find your elegant at all D: < 1236816585 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not supposed to be command line bitch :| < 1236816591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could make it 2 lines of haskell, btw, but I was making it verbose and readable < 1236816592 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont care about your ugly commandline shit < 1236816600 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make it smaller! < 1236816602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugly, lol < 1236816605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I like it < 1236816609 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to see smaller < 1236816619 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could do more readable too i guess < 1236816621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k, here < 1236816652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :import Data.Bits < 1236816652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :import Data.List < 1236816653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sierpinski w h = [ [ x .&. y == 0 | x <- [0..w] ] | y <- [0..h] ] < 1236816655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main = putStr . unlines . map (map (\b -> if b then '*' else ' ')) $ sierpinski 30 30 < 1236816657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could omit the sierpinski definition line: < 1236816668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :main = putStr . unlines . map (map (\b -> if b then '*' else ' ')) $ [ [ x .&. y == 0 | x <- [0..30] ] | y <- [0..30] ] < 1236816691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/lQGGDWNZ <- on the #haskell codepad, newsham added me < 1236816723 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you're missing a * at the right and at the bottom < 1236816730 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no hes not < 1236816736 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he just didnt go up to that start is all :p < 1236816744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, 31,31 would fix that < 1236816747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is fine < 1236816750 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, ok < 1236816814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: http://codepad.org/Y1PV2gVc < 1236816817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham centered it :D < 1236816847 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1236816882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, very nice algorithm psygnisfive < 1236816891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you noticed how much the sierpinski definition resembles the mathematical one you gave? < 1236816892 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not my discovery. < 1236816895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, that's how awesome it is :P < 1236816899 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no i havent actually < 1236816915 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also discovered a way to generate a gasket inductively over a graph < 1236816932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{ (x,y) : x,y in N, &(x,y) = 0 } < 1236816932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ (x,y) | x <- [0..w], y <- [0..h], x .&. y == 0 ] < 1236816941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first is your mathematical one, second is my haskell one < 1236816944 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh oh well < 1236816958 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my first one was actually intended to be pseudohaskell from the beginning ;) < 1236816974 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1236816977 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inductively on a graph: < 1236816998 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :G = (Nodes,Edges) where Nodes = N^2 < 1236817015 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1: The edge ((0,0),(0,1)) is in Edges < 1236817025 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2: The edge ((0,0),(1,0)) is in Edges < 1236817045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what in the bitwise patterns gives rise to sierpinski < 1236817048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the God fractal... < 1236817070 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: clearly this is evidence that the universe is run by cellular automata! < 1236817096 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3: IFF (i,j) is of incoming degree 1, then ((i,j),(i+1,j)) and ((i,i),(i,j+1)) are in Edges < 1236817144 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er.. that should obviously be (i,j) not (i,i) on the right there < 1236817157 0 :Jophish!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236817285 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres also another very simple algorithm that produces an identical gasket < 1236817308 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats similarly simple but not as mathematically pure < 1236817363 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ofcourse the simple duplicate-to-form-a-new-item algorithm works < 1236817395 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a more general way so as to produce not just the sierpinski gasket but also the cantor set, etc. < 1236818667 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236818691 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird < 1236818701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :. < 1236818707 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :send me the golly file < 1236818721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lazy < 1236818725 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1236818739 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know who else is lazy? < 1236818740 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slereah < 1236818743 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you dont want to be like slereah do you < 1236818822 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that depends. is he rich? < 1236818826 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236818830 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and hes a homosexual! < 1236818837 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a communist < 1236818851 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :communist? < 1236818856 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1236818864 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, hes french < 1236818865 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1236818866 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same thing < 1236818871 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suspected the homosexual but i never really got it confirmed before < 1236819257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell is fun like a kitten. < 1236819263 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1236819269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a kitteny kitten. < 1236819276 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird < 1236819282 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're clearly either a girl, or a faggot. < 1236819285 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take your pick, < 1236819292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about both < 1236819301 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately both dosnt apply < 1236819326 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean lesbians don't like kittens? < 1236819330 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236819334 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they hate them with a passion < 1236819344 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about < 1236819345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lesbian < 1236819346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kittens < 1236819357 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you learn something new every day < 1236819445 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i discovered a way to make a fuse in GoL < 1236819551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: http://bash.org/?105356 < 1236819605 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a very good point < 1236819610 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meth makes you like that big time < 1236819616 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuse: < 1236819621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I must be permanently on meth. < 1236819632 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[right down down left down down] < 1236819641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut < 1236819644 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :repeat until you dont want to < 1236819654 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :color a cell < 1236819655 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :move right < 1236819657 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :color a cell < 1236819658 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mov down < 1236819659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Omg, golly 2.0 is out < 1236819662 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :color a cell < 1236819663 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :move down < 1236819671 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1236819687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1236819689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it removes itself? < 1236819694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, a wavy horizontal line does that < 1236819696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :diagonally < 1236819697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorta < 1236819697 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh not as such < 1236819701 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sort of... < 1236819706 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :burns itself up :) < 1236819718 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just do it. make it very long < 1236819743 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :helloes < 1236819744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, right < 1236819745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple < 1236819748 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oi oi < 1236819757 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ie < 1236819783 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i just say < 1236819786 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much i love you guys < 1236819794 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for being so dorky that i cant talk about this shit with you < 1236819795 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1236819824 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, "cant"? < 1236819833 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can* < 1236819842 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn fingers < 1236819856 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats psygnisfive's fingers for him -----### < 1236819864 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1236820048 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bash sucks < 1236820093 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also have i mentioned hardcover books are awesome < 1236820100 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are just incredible < 1236820113 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially when they're really thick and clean < 1236820121 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like 1300 pages < 1236820122 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one < 1236820146 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should probably buy another one of those for just touching and licking < 1236820161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1236820183 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ew :| < 1236820190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :booksexual < 1236820204 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ew? < 1236820234 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm a bibliophile in many senses < 1236820295 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmm also when you open it, there's tons of shit i'll never understand, but it's so pretty < 1236820297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and then you'd just have giant red orbs flying around the planet that can eat up functional satelites katamari-style. " < 1236820302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NAAA, NA NA NA NA NA NA NA < 1236820425 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im off to the cafe < 1236820431 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boys goys < 1236820512 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good night < 1236820689 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: er, what? < 1236820701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: katamari damacy < 1236820733 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i've slightly heard of that, but it was the rest of it i wondered about < 1236820788 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now if they could use it for cleaning up space junk... :D < 1236821063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:23 Tseg: That makes sense. Here's my reference trick: mfix(f)=let r=newRef(Nothing) in ContIO(\to->in runIO(f(unJust(readRef(r))))(\v->do {writeIORef(r)(Just(v)); to(v)})) < 1236821065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH MY GOD IT IS C. < 1236821072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: THAT IS HASKELL WTF < 1236821084 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck < 1236821089 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even I know that's bad Haskell < 1236821097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's a newbie from C < 1236821098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but JESUS CHRIST < 1236821121 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :runIO $ f $ unJust $ readRef $ r < 1236821123 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plskthx < 1236821129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"readRef $ r" fail < 1236821132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's readRef r < 1236821133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also ti should be < 1236821134 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, yeah < 1236821139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :runIO . f . unJust . readRef $ r < 1236821161 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that work? < 1236821164 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ confuses me < 1236821170 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an operator that does nothing but it has a high precedence < 1236821180 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1236821180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't do nothin < 1236821181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g < 1236821183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :() is the empty operator < 1236821185 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does nothing < 1236821185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :($) = () < 1236821188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236821192 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a $ b = a b < 1236821195 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the definition < 1236821197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that regular application is an infix operator with a 0-length name < 1236821200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ is an explicit name for it < 1236821211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and yes, I know that's a YO DAWG situation) < 1236821276 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a yodawgmorphism < 1236821326 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or strictly speaking, supdawgmorphism, which is dual to an infdawgmorphism < 1236821839 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: also, that is so much harder to read than runIO(f(unJust(readF(r)))) < 1236821843 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though much prettier < 1236821851 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but less clear on what it's doing < 1236823760 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1236823805 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok im back < 1236824369 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1236824692 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-126-222.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236825380 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236825906 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236825906 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236825906 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236825907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236825907 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236825907 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236825907 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236825907 0 :Robdgreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236825907 0 :kwertii!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236825907 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236825907 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236825908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236825908 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236825908 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236825908 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236825908 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236825908 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236825908 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236825908 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236825908 0 :Dewio!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236825909 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236825909 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236825909 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236825909 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236825909 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236825909 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236825910 0 :ski__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236825910 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236825914 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236825921 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1236825921 0 :lifthrasiir!n=lifthras@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236825997 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236826202 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236826202 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236826259 0 :lament!n=lament@S010600110999ad06.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236826259 0 :kerlo_!n=ihope@normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1236826259 0 :lifthrasiir!n=lifthras@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236826259 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1236826259 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-126-222.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236826259 0 :neldoreth!n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth JOIN :#esoteric < 1236826259 0 :kwertii!n=kwertii@c-71-202-121-102.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236826259 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1236826259 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-4-12.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236826259 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@92.254.128.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236826259 0 :psygnisfive!n=psygnisf@c-71-57-164-119.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236826259 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1236826259 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1236826259 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1236826259 0 :ehird!n=ehird@208.78.103.223 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236826259 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1236826260 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@cpc2-stkn13-2-0-cust73.11-2.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1236826260 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1236826260 0 :Dewio!n=dewi@124-171-184-160.dyn.iinet.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1236826260 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@65.183.185.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236826260 0 :Asztal!n=moo@chunkybacon.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1236826260 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-15-119.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236826260 0 :mtve!n=mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236826260 0 :ineiros!n=ineiros@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1236826260 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r03jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1236826260 0 :Robdgreat!i=rob@unaffiliated/robdgreat JOIN :#esoteric < 1236826260 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236826260 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1236826260 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1236826260 0 :ski__!n=md9slj@remote3.student.chalmers.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236826260 0 :irc.freenode.net!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o lament < 1236826385 0 :Deewiant_!n=deewiant@tavi.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1236827022 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1236828596 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236830046 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1236831455 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1236831617 0 :sEvher!n=ubuntu@delta.ds3.agh.edu.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1236831741 0 :sEvher!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1236832641 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1236832691 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-129-204.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236832720 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1236833030 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given a big directory of text, i need a fast way of searching it < 1236833036 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(faster than simple grep) < 1236833756 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it's sorted (or some known permutation of sorted) you can't go any quicker than grep < 1236833926 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... or has any other property you can exploit for speed < 1236833955 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can build an index < 1236833990 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :building the index ~ grep < 1236833996 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :search < grep < 1236834248 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :building the index + searching > grep < 1236834712 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyhow, I don't know much about indexing, and am to tired to research it now. Good night. < 1236836389 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1236843037 0 :kwertii!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236843050 0 :kwertii!n=kwertii@c-71-202-121-102.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236843148 0 :asiekierk!i=africalo@078088180066.elb.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1236843149 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello < 1236843287 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey. < 1236844799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1236844800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1236845624 0 :neldoreth!n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth JOIN :#esoteric < 1236846024 0 :kwertii!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"bye" < 1236846481 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@a91-153-121-248.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1236847207 0 :Deewiant_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236847324 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@tavi.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1236849306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX, building an index is a one time cost though, so once you done it you can use it several times < 1236849329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for a one time search a plain grep would be faster than first building the index < 1236849416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that assumes the datset doesn't change, if it does you would need to rebuild (possibly partial, for text files you could speed up rebuild by skipping if modification time hasn the index. < 1236849419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hasn't changed) < 1236849450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blergh at hitting enter instead of ' ... < 1236849530 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also indexing is non-trivial if you want to include things like stemming. < 1236849570 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not that there wouldn't be a pile of tools and libraries for that short of stuff. < 1236849574 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/short/sort/ < 1236849577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok < 1236849586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, grep is non-trivial if you want that too < 1236849595 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but grep's already there always. < 1236849607 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like a natural law; there's grep everywhere. < 1236849613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well I mean, you can't do stemming in grep afaik < 1236849620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not GNU grep at least < 1236849632 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, you meant that. Well, no. < 1236849667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if not the GNU tool then probably no other grep either. It's like a natural law; the GNU tools are always the most bloated ones. < 1236849692 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stemming in grep would be a bit over-the-top even for a GNU tool. < 1236849704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1236849724 0 :tombom!i=tombom@82.26.197.58 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236849725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway I don't know if it would be possible to use any sort of index for stuff like grep -E < 1236849743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose basic wildcards work with indexes. Or how would LIKE work in SQL? < 1236849794 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least PostgreSQL optimizes only LIKE expressions of the type "foo%" (i.e. prefix-matching) using indices. < 1236849802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1236849826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what is the FTS stuff in postgre about btw? < 1236849831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :full text index or something iirc < 1236849839 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The optimizer can also use a B-tree index for queries involving the pattern matching operators LIKE and ~ if the pattern is a constant and is anchored to the beginning of the string — for example, col LIKE 'foo%' or col ~ '^foo', but not col LIKE '%bar'." < 1236849848 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's got a full-text-search thingie. < 1236849861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that for LIKE or for something else? < 1236849870 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Something else. < 1236849878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. How does it work? < 1236849887 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's got a different way of making queries, pretty much a bag-of-words that you can search for. < 1236849894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1236849915 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it works "the usual way", with a so-called inverted index: there's a mapping from words to "documents" where they occur. < 1236849962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236849976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect using indexes for regex would be hard < 1236850011 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; though you could possibly use them in some special cases to limit the amount of records that need to be actually tested with the real regex engine. < 1236850020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well true < 1236850037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"foo|bar|quux" would be trivial to use an index for for example < 1236850048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait is that valid? two "for" after each other... < 1236850179 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could (in that particular case) match the words in your index (which is less text than the indexed stuff) against foo|bar|quux, and then select those places where they occur. < 1236850179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, though I know the current xkcd is from yesterday I think it is much better than recent average < 1236850195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just forgot to comment on it yesteday in here) < 1236850225 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A suffix tree is also nice if you really need a fast way of "check if this long piece of text exactly contains this arbitrary substring", but I think it takes more space (larger than the original text) than your general full-text-search inverted-index (which I think in reasonable use cases ends up being less; I think I saw a figure like "30 % of your data" in some Lucene documentation or something). < 1236850245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, best way: CAM < 1236850247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1236850256 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Client Excited" < 1236850288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I doubt that would help for regexes < 1236850308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, it is probably the fastest way to search in general. < 1236850376 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't really help when all you've got is software, of course. < 1236850388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1236850395 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'll go do an early-ish (10:33 local-time) lunch now. < 1236850402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, one sec < 1236850408 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm? < 1236850413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it seems hard to speed up regex at all really < 1236850430 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compared to many other types of searches < 1236850453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or? < 1236850463 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I'd certainly say so. < 1236850492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the same goes for one loopup -> several regex matching < 1236850502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like for a spamfilter < 1236850526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then I mean spamfilters for ircds mostly < 1236850529 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google Code does regular expression search over a large set of data; but no-one knows (well, except Google themselves) how it's done. < 1236850542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ok *that* is interesting < 1236850554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236850557 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a large set of constant data, wouldn't help in an ircd spam-filter where every sentence is new. < 1236850576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes, and you need to match each line to several regexes < 1236850583 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia just has some idle speculation: "... but appears to have combined precomputed indices with a POSIX compliant regular expression engine.[citation needed][original research?]" < 1236850602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a set of wildcard patterns you could do some easier matching < 1236850634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :storing them sorted would help selecting a better one earlier for example < 1236850647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike a regex. (zzz)?aaa < 1236850676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you still have to deal with * at the start though < 1236850688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, cya. Have to leave too. < 1236850718 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For "multiple regexps against a single line", you can combine the regexps into a single one, then compile that one to a single huge state machine. < 1236851744 0 :ais523!i=93bc1b55@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-03036bc5012d38da JOIN :#esoteric < 1236853938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm ok < 1236853948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, good idea even < 1236855714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client" < 1236855869 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think flex does sort-of something like that in the scanners it builds. I mean, basically what it does is to have a large set of expressions to match against the input, and the scanner it generates seems to resemble a state machine. I haven't looked at the details. < 1236856194 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yH_j8-VVLo - amusing short piece on Erlang < 1236856439 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh; I missed the "promoted videos" side-bar heading, so the page looked as if it said "[down-arrow] Related videos", followed by "Funny Face Yoga", "The Cat Phone - PetTube..." and "Failed Toy Pitch - Come...". They didn't sound very related to me. < 1236856453 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I guess Erlang use can easily lead to Funny Face Yoga. Or something. < 1236857910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc I saw a regex -> C generator < 1236857912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot the name < 1236857949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes re2c < 1236857952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never tried it < 1236858206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yH_j8-VVLo - amusing short piece on Erlang <-- old < 1236858295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah no, just the small preview image was old. from another video < 1236858314 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have that regex -> brainfuck generator. :p < 1236858318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also one of those images are from BOIC screen saver... < 1236858330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BOINC* < 1236858386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, wait what? PCRE? < 1236858386 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"For maximum performance. [Footnote, tiny print: The expression "maximum performance" is based on the reasonable assumption that your computational platform is based on the Brainfuck industry-standard low-level architecture.]" < 1236858403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, link? < 1236858403 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, just very basic regexps. < 1236858432 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kleene star, the | operation and concatenation; I don't know if I had anything else. < 1236858462 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll grep my logs; I dug it up not very long time ago (certainly not more than a couple of months) for someone else on this channel. < 1236858471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought it was http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uKfKtXYLG78 first < 1236858510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is IMO way funnier and interesting < 1236858651 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but that one's actually old. :-P < 1236858787 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://zem.fi/~fis/BFRE.java -- then "javac BFRE.java" and "java -cp . BFRE '(ab)*' > test.b" should generate a test.b which accepts (outputs "acc!") strings like "abab" and "abababab" but rejects (outputs "rej!") strings like "abba". < 1236858810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you like java so much < 1236858811 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to remember it generating rather large brainfuck output files. < 1236858830 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't, I just was having a Java phase at that moment. < 1236858843 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently I'm back in the Perly period, having gone through a short bit of Python there. < 1236858872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what about C++? < 1236858893 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm eagerly waiting for the next C++ sprint, I could actually work on jitfunge a bit at that point. < 1236858896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jitfunge was in C++ right? < 1236858920 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like you read my mind here. < 1236858968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so what if you need to use another language suddenly? < 1236858976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like an assignment or whatever < 1236858979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which doesn < 1236858989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't* match the current sprint < 1236858999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever you called it < 1236859025 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A "period", by way of analogy to, say, Picasso's blue period. < 1236859055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I guess it was lucky that there wasn't a shortage of blue paint during that period < 1236859057 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I guess that depends. It's not like I couldn't touch other languages, it's more of a preference for any on-my-free-time things. < 1236859067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe there was a shortage of other pigments? < 1236859070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from blue < 1236859081 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually that compiled (ab)* isn't so bad; it's just something like 18.5 80-column lines. < 1236859156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, in cfunge it would be way shorter: "PXER"4( "*)ba(" ;something I forgot; ;forgot what commant it was in REXP; < 1236859162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1236859176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does CCBI implement REXP btw? < 1236859186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ^ < 1236859191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 3DSP < 1236859192 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: v < 1236859194 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1236859197 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ^ < 1236859199 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: v < 1236859200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1236859200 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1236859201 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ^ < 1236859260 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: There's an option in BFRE to generate commented brainfuck: just change line 621 from "String bf = re.bf();" => "String bf = re.bf(false);" and recompile. < 1236859281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : v > < 1236859281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :v> > < 1236859281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : # < 1236859281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> v^< < 1236859281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ^ < 1236859281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1236859297 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Infinite loop, oh dear < 1236859302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, no? < 1236859309 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1236859312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1236859316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :v< < 1236859318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should have been that < 1236859327 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no < 1236859332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, not infinite loop < 1236859332 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The v in the lower right corner is an infinite loop < 1236859353 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the same sense than your plain old "v" was. < 1236859358 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(But of course that whole thing can only loop forever anyway) < 1236859360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, exactly < 1236859381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well I assumed that too < 1236859382 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just wondering if I was supposed to traverse all the chars or not < 1236859393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, huh? < 1236859435 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, right, I'm supposed to start at the ^ and not the v :-P < 1236859443 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well. < 1236859452 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought that was quite logical, since it's what was after the "name:" part. < 1236859458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm iirc someone said GCC is getting a plugin architecture soon. Can anyone confirm this? < 1236859458 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That BFRE thing doesn't even optimize long strings of +s or -s; could save a lot in the generated output with just that. So don't use it in a production system. < 1236859467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION doesn't have browser running atm < 1236859468 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I read it as "execute the above". < 1236859516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, maybe cfunge should have optional plugin support, to support static analysers and such < 1236859549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait what I planned just needs to parse the trace output < 1236859553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236859783 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would like to work on jitfunge more if there wasn't that damned self-modification going on. I can't even compile a constant-argument p into a simple memory store, without worrying that later the jitter is going to create a compiled trace at that location, and it will then be invalidated if this particular p instruction is ever executed. < 1236860059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh < 1236860069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I'm sure it can be solved somehow. < 1236860117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, also if there wasn't self modification you could just compile it normally without needing JIT < 1236860160 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given the funky Befunge code-flow, that's not completely trivial either; I'd still suspect a tracing JIT could be the way to go. It'd just be a lot easier. < 1236860216 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently jitfunge has a "solution" which basically boils down recording in funge-space all the cells where any compiled-to-memory-store-puts refer to, and later if we end up executing code in such a place, invalidating the referring code. < 1236860238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1236860264 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Which means that when it's recompiled and compiling the 'p', it knows to use the put-it-there-carefully function call instead of a compiled store.) < 1236860295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, put it there carefully mean "invalidate compiled code"? < 1236860303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :means* < 1236860306 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, pretty much. < 1236860328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how did you handle pop on empty stack now again? < 1236860376 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have a solution to a piece of code where there are two "routines", and each of them 'p'-modifies the other, then "calls" (well, goes to) the other; they both end up being recompiled all the time, but it'd need serious cleverness to notice something like that and compile the routines into "before-the-modified-place" and "after-the-modified-place" halves. < 1236860398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what about ' and s ? < 1236860457 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a PROT_NONE memory block "under" the stack, and I catch the SIGSEGV, extract the machine context from the signal, examine the opcodes near the offending instruction to see what was going on, then manipulate the necessary registers to simulate a "it returned a zero but did not move the stack pointer" situation. < 1236860469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway one idea would be to note that the place is edited often, and once a threshold is reached skip compiling the cell that p writes to, and compile two traces one on each side of that point < 1236860514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm so popping on empty stack has quite high overhead? < 1236860538 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't measured, but very likely. < 1236860548 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At the very least something compared to setjmp/longjmp usage. < 1236860555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1236860601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the most likely case of hitting that would be on >:#,_ idiom < 1236860609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so optimising that specially maybe? < 1236860617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the* < 1236860628 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always put an explicit 0 there; I usually have other stuff on the stack anyway. < 1236860659 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But a print-loop could be detected specially, yes. < 1236860659 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mycology pops an empty stack quite often, I think < 1236860679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well depends, I often write test cases, so I tend to know if it is "GOOD" or "BAD" and not have anything useful on stack any more < 1236860686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus probably doing an n < 1236860705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I have garbage on it < 1236860706 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "note often-edited places" is also something I've thought about. But it's yet more stuff to track, I'd need to keep write-counts on just about all modified-by-code funge-space locations to see if they are modified often. The simplest "someone wrote there once, so someone's probably going to keep modifying it" rule might be too simple. < 1236860713 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I tend to do "n" instead of "0" in Mycology < 1236860727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, doesn't Java HotSpot do something like that? < 1236860729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well often executed < 1236860731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that case < 1236860754 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it doesn't need to track all data storage memory for potential changes also. :p < 1236860756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I suspect that is most common in test case code < 1236860765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I often use the first row as temp storage < 1236860772 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I could have a "someone modified a location which actually contained some code that was previously executed" rule. < 1236860775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean I don't need it after the start < 1236860792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is setup, and later temp storage < 1236860824 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, sometimes the setup code write stuff into the program once < 1236860862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, does anyone have a ?-based unbiased RNG for funge? Range 0-9 < 1236860893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried a tree structure but it is hard to make sure you get an even probability for all cases < 1236860916 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fungot keeps some stuff semi-permanently on the stack (I don't remember what stuff; some numbers related to the raw IRC socket data under processing, I think) so I can't clear it. Since I don't use the stack-stack at all. < 1236860959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, another thing that might be useful to optimise somehow is if one side of a ? has an > pointing at the ? < 1236860979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite common when you want n outputs for n < 4 < 1236861041 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really remember how I did ? right now. I think currently it always ends a compiled piece of code. < 1236861400 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think http://zem.fi/~fis/rand.txt should work for unbiased [0-9]; it's based on the ? => ??? tree of generating unbiasedly 0-11 (0-3 from first ?, 4-7 from second, 8-11 from third) except that here the two unnecessary outputs are redirected back to the initial ? for a re-roll. < 1236861492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1-9 is easier < 1236861517 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, since you can just make the 1-3, 4-6, 7-9 decision, and then use a three-output ?. < 1236861538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://paste.lisp.org/display/76883 < 1236861541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that yes < 1236861578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm what about one with an upper time bound? < 1236861588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean both or ours is O(inf) in worst case < 1236861605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine could possibly bounce between >? forever < 1236861605 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O(inf) sounds pretty slow! < 1236861608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your redirect back < 1236861613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah, worst case < 1236861622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah, "random, if bad try again" < 1236861625 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also have a >? in the first three-way decision, it could keep bouncing there. < 1236861629 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The probability of that worst case is zero though < 1236861642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, really? 9999999999999999999999999 < 1236861667 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Given a ? which is guaranteed to go in all directions, it is < 1236861687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes it is, on average and if you wait long enough < 1236861761 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyhoo, if you want an even and bounded 0-9 generator in Befunge with ? I'm fairly sure it can't be done, you can only get powers of 2 < 1236861787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236861822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, this gives raise to an interesting question... < 1236861833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"bounded time even randomness complete" languages < 1236861847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ < 1236861848 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can be done with the generator in FIXP, I forget the instruction's name (probably R) < 1236861882 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can get a "reasonably even" one by generating a large 2^n number in an even way, then taking %10; the biasedness goes down the larger number you bother to create there. < 1236861884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm another idea: implement a PRNG in funge, using ? for the seed or randomness pool < 1236861888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on how you do it < 1236861926 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: And you can get "reasonably bounded" by doing >? :-) < 1236861986 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After all, "rand() % N" (or the division-based alternative to get supposedly better, higher bits) is not even either, unless (RAND_MAX+1) % N == 0, but people still do it. < 1236861996 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't. :-P < 1236862011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I remember the glibc random() is supposed to have good randomness in all bits < 1236862011 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, unless I don't care. < 1236862016 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't do it in CCBI. < 1236862075 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If RAND_MAX is 4 and rand() is even and you take rand()%2, you're mapping [0,1,2,3,4] to [0,1,0,1,0]: 0 comes out with probability 3/5, 1 with 2/5 < 1236862077 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually fungot uses the "reasonably even" route when selecting what to babble, but that's mostly because I need a rather large range, and it was simpler that way. < 1236862077 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: there you are < 1236862131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, mhm < 1236862184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, rand() != random() though. Man page says range for random() is 16 * ((2^31) - 1) < 1236862192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"approximately" < 1236862197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1236862198 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It doesn't matter what function you use < 1236862198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :misread < 1236862200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was the period < 1236862202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1236862215 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I said applies for any random number generator < 1236862220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so what bits are best to take? the middle ones? < 1236862233 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: On the other hand, RAND_MAX is typically something like 2^31-1. < 1236862235 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't matter either, unless the generator says some bits are crap < 1236862246 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, so the error is small in practice. < 1236862287 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd have probabilities of .49999999976716935623 and .50000000023283064376 for 0 and 1. Or the other way around. < 1236862296 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: IMO the only way to make it even is to go the unbounded route, that's what I do < 1236862308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, in CCBI? < 1236862317 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and wherever I care about evenness < 1236862335 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't do it in cfunge, you'll slow it down! :-P < 1236862343 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to eat now -> < 1236862345 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fungot does something like "n = 0; for (i = 0; i < 10; i++) n = (4*n) + rand(4); n = n % range;" where rand(4) is done with a single ?, and it's not actually 10, it's something else I forgot. < 1236862347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I do have a comment in the code about it < 1236862363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it suggests sending a patch if you need a more uniform rng < 1236862377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because since RAND_MAX is so large the actual error is very small < 1236862409 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: How biased are you? < 1236862409 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i used to have one with size as well as < 1236862434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The versions of rand() and srand() in the Linux C Library use the same random number generator as random(3) and srandom(3), so the lower-order bits < 1236862434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : should be as random as the higher-order bits. However, on older rand() implementations, and on current implementations on different systems, the < 1236862434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : lower-order bits are much less random than the higher-order bits. Do not use this function in applications intended to be portable when good ran‐ < 1236862434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : domness is needed. (Use random(3) instead.) < 1236862444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from man srand < 1236862451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man rand gives me some openssl man page instead < 1236862457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in section 3 < 1236862483 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh? My openssl rand is in section 1. < 1236862487 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it's a command. < 1236862494 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does refer to RAND_bytes(3). < 1236862496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well there is OpenSSL API docs < 1236862502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NAME < 1236862502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : rand - pseudo-random number generator < 1236862502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SYNOPSIS < 1236862502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : #include < 1236862524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAND_bytes and several more functions are documented there < 1236862534 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have such. I might not have installed some openssl-doc package. < 1236862538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No entry for rand in section 1 of the manual < 1236862568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, my openssl is built with useflags: gmp sse2 zlib -kerberos < 1236862573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where - is turned off < 1236862585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no separate doc package < 1236862594 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have this: RAND(1SSL) -- rand - generate pseudo-random bytes -- openssl rand [-out file] [-rand file(s)] [-base64] num < 1236862603 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit silly to have all those openssl commands separately, though. < 1236862613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I only have an entry for that in openssl(1) < 1236862616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don < 1236862621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't* have any 1ssl section < 1236862642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cannot open the message catalog "man" for locale "sv_SE.UTF-8" < 1236862642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(NLSPATH="") < 1236862645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder what that means < 1236862715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my man didn't install any gettext files or such at least < 1236862901 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are four instances of ? actually executed as code in fungot sources: one is that [0, 2^24-1]-range loop-based generator, two are in a a "unrolled" two-iteration loop generating [0, 15], and the final is in ^bool selecting one out of two outputs. < 1236862901 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what are the other major difference is how much more complex one. < 1236862955 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually the ^bool case is a bit silly, since it has a >?< structure to get only two outputs; I could've gotten a less bouncy unbiased version very easily. < 1236863083 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There's also the ? character in a "ping? pong!" comment, another comment in the list of punctuation symbols the babble-generator can produce, and yet another in the '? part where the babble-generator actually does a question mark.) < 1236863505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236863525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much of fungot source file is actually needed to run fungot < 1236863526 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: mine is fuller extent than many other languages and modules. see scheme/ fnord ls < 1236863532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc there were a huge block of comments at the end? < 1236863549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers delayed loading and then thinks better of it < 1236863789 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1236863828 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Out of 495 lines, only 381 are needed. < 1236863861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still optimising >:#._ might be worthwhile for cfunge in the static area, but the run time overhead of checking for it, hm... < 1236863876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still,* < 1236866307 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-077-007.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1236866364 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Usually I like writing in TeX math-mode, but occasionally it's not quite as clean as the resulting output: http://www.cis.hut.fi/htkallas/latexmath.png < 1236866494 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'occasionally' < 1236866508 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite often in my experience < 1236866534 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially when you have complex arrays and you need to put stuff like \phantoms all over the place to get stuff to align nicely < 1236866577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm tried LyX? It is quite a nice frontend, and iirc it handles math quite well too < 1236866577 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have been attempting an understatement. There's one \rule there for spacing. < 1236866583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure about the most advanced stuff < 1236866600 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, that example isn't that bad IMO :-) < 1236866630 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tried LyX, didn't like it. Maybe it's just my normal aversion to all things gooey. And it was not recently, they might have improved it since then. < 1236866649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, recent LyX is a lot better than when I started using LyX < 1236866660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which was maybe a year ago or so < 1236866710 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm sure it was at least two years ago when I last tried it. < 1236866730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, lyx optionally supports pre-rendering the math expressions on the fly, to be able to show any unsupported commands too < 1236866733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a new feature < 1236866758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, however make sure to use the very last release, often package managers in distros lag behind < 1236866772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh also I only used the QT4 frontend for it < 1236866801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc they dropped the GTK one since it sucked < 1236866821 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really have a choice of what to use on this work-workstation, except I can bug our administrators of course. < 1236866860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, can't you install it in ~ ? < 1236866865 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't want to. < 1236866884 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially since they've thoughtfully provided us with a version. < 1236866886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I recommend lyx-1.6.0 or later. 1.6.1 is what I use < 1236866899 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're having disk space issues anyway, I think. < 1236866899 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I definitely wouldn't use older ones any more < 1236866909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.6 improved things a lot < 1236866914 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Installed LyX here is "LyX version 1.5.6 (Sun, Jul 27, 2008)". Not *old*, but not *new* either. < 1236866917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, of course I would also use a very recent texlive < 1236866931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well 1.5 is not so good < 1236866947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the math stuff really improved in 1.6 < 1236866988 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The /home share is again 92 % full; and that's a rather good situation, it's been completely full on occasion. < 1236866992 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Filesystem Size Used Avail Use% Mounted on < 1236866994 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :baldrick:/vol/home 488G 447G 42G 92% /m/fs/home < 1236867017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1236867020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, quotas? < 1236867023 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :None. < 1236867025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also how many users < 1236867051 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a public, autogenerated-every-weekend list of "disk space usage per user", sorted by amount of space used, so you know who to blame. < 1236867059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1236867072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so where is you on that list? < 1236867073 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your /home is smaller than our /home < 1236867092 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes, well, it's not the size, it's how we use it. < 1236867111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway, don't you have your own computer? < 1236867121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a laptop or whatever < 1236867126 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nfs:/home 1.3T 211G 444G 33% /home < 1236867148 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does that work? 211 G used, 444 G free, total size 1.3 T? < 1236867161 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, I was just wondering about that myself < 1236867171 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do believe the 'free' number is the one that's correct < 1236867186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236867197 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's our project-shares, where all non-temporary ("work" is for that) big files should be kept: < 1236867198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, what file system is it really? < 1236867200 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :baldrick:/vol/project0 2.0T 1.5T 540G 74% /m/fs/project0 < 1236867203 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blackadder:/vol/project1 1.4T 1.4T 25G 99% /m/fs/project1 < 1236867208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is ext* then the "reserved for root" space... < 1236867217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and over nfs I'm not sure how that works < 1236867228 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's mounted over NFS, and I'm not quite sure how it works either. < 1236867237 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyhoo, I used to lead diskhogs at 14G < 1236867246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah wait < 1236867249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it isn't a partition mounted < 1236867254 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then somebody had a broken script and filled the drive with a diskhogs value of 493G < 1236867256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but a direction on a partition on the server < 1236867281 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course that would happen then < 1236867290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :size of the sub tree vs size of disk < 1236867310 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm #91 in our /home directory size-usage list, with ~1.4G. #1 has 20G. And actually ineiros here on this channel is #2 with 18G. :p < 1236867340 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ours only shows the top 10 < 1236867370 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I think I've been off the mailing list for a few months < 1236867391 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last one I got was in December < 1236867407 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The project directory disk-usage chart is less useful, since it just shows the directories, not directly whose fault it is. < 1236867475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about using lyx on your own computer fizzie ? < 1236867506 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1236867542 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The laptop is less comfortable than this workstation, with an external monitor, keyboard and mouse. And besides, I couldn't plug my own laptop into the network anyway. < 1236867551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1236867552 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even using wireless? < 1236867579 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a separate sort of network then. < 1236867584 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No direct SSH access to lab machines. < 1236867699 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indirect, though? < 1236867838 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, "james" is accessible from the Interwebs. But it's still not quite as convenient, even though sshfs-like stuff could make it bearable, if the wireless wasn't so unreliable and laggy. < 1236867892 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't there a plug into the outer network < 1236867913 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From what I heard, they're replacing the old "aalto" network (which required a https-based web-page-login) with a completely open "aalto Open" (which is even less part of the university network), and because of that the old network is not actively maintained, while the new one is very under-construction and doesn't seem to be available here. < 1236867933 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I saw "aalto Open" in one of the lecture halls, though. So maybe they really are working on it, and it's not just a convenient excuse. < 1236867947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1236867948 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aalto Open works better outdoors < 1236867955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is "aalto"? < 1236867955 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And in the main building, too, I think < 1236867959 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Wave" < 1236867963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1236867964 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fi:aalto is en:wave, yes. < 1236867976 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also: The noun aalto has 1 sense (no senses from tagged texts) < 1236867976 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. Aalto, Alvar Aalto, Hugo Alvar Henrik Aalto -- (Finnish architect and designer of furniture (1898-1976)) < 1236867983 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WordNet is so comprehensive. < 1236867985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a brand name of wireless access points or something? < 1236867989 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The name of both the old wireless network and of the upcoming university which is an amalgamation of a couple of current ones < 1236868023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear, those names are always awful < 1236868033 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed < 1236868038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the name of then? < 1236868051 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, this year is the last change to graduate from Helsinki University of Technology; after that your papers are from Aalto University. < 1236868064 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Better hurry! < 1236868068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hah < 1236868069 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I hope; in a worst-case scenario they're going to call it the Wave University.) < 1236868088 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like some sort of surfboarding school. < 1236868091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that sounds, um, new age? < 1236868097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that < 1236868126 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Aalto University is created through a merger between the Helsinki School of Economics, the University of Art and Design Helsinki and the Helsinki University of Technology." Phew, they're not translating it. Not that I seriously thought they would. < 1236868136 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why is our name mentioned last, anyway? < 1236868139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would be wrong with "Helsinki University" then? < 1236868143 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tsunami University, Tidal Wave University have been some relatively popular derogatory names (in Finnish) < 1236868144 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's taken. < 1236868149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I see. < 1236868150 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: There is a Helsinki University alraedy < 1236868155 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ae/ea/ < 1236868165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why separate universities? < 1236868175 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or actually it's University of Helsinki, in English. < 1236868223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it would be logical to have one university for all wouldn't it? And different faculties or whatever you call them < 1236868224 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't actually know if they even considered merger with the University < 1236868241 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Which reminds me, of course it should be Wave High School < 1236868245 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And University of Helsinki is this multi-disciplinary generic sort of university, with pretty much everything they do on the university level. < 1236868293 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : IE loads mozilla.com faster than Firefox, and Firefox loads microsoft.com faster than IE < 1236868307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what, if anything, this proves... < 1236868319 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1236868332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, source? < 1236868366 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?displaylang=en&FamilyID=cd8932f3-b4be-4e0e-a73b-4a373d85146d < 1236868368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I don't believe microsoft would release that if firefox was faster at microsoft.com... < 1236868378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1236868381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl food! < 1236868385 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they released it because their data "proves" that IE is the fastest browser < 1236869123 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236869123 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236869123 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236869126 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236869128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236869128 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236869128 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236869129 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236869129 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236869133 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236869133 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236869135 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236869135 0 :Robdgreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236869135 0 :kerlo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236869135 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236869136 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236869136 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236869138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236869139 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236869141 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236869141 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236869141 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236869142 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236869144 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236869144 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236869144 0 :Dewio!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236869147 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236869147 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236869148 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236869149 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236869151 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236869151 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236869152 0 :ski__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236869365 0 :lament!n=lament@S010600110999ad06.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236869365 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1236869365 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-077-007.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1236869365 0 :tombom!i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1236869365 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@tavi.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1236869365 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@a91-153-121-248.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1236869365 0 :neldoreth!n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth JOIN :#esoteric < 1236869365 0 :asiekierk!i=africalo@078088180066.elb.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1236869365 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-129-204.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236869365 0 :kerlo_!n=ihope@normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1236869365 0 :lifthrasiir!n=lifthras@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236869365 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-4-12.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236869365 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@92.254.128.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236869365 0 :psygnisfive!n=psygnisf@c-71-57-164-119.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236869365 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1236869365 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1236869366 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1236869366 0 :ehird!n=ehird@208.78.103.223 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236869366 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1236869366 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@cpc2-stkn13-2-0-cust73.11-2.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1236869366 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1236869366 0 :Dewio!n=dewi@124-171-184-160.dyn.iinet.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1236869366 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@65.183.185.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236869366 0 :Asztal!n=moo@chunkybacon.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1236869366 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-15-119.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236869366 0 :mtve!n=mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236869366 0 :ineiros!n=ineiros@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1236869366 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r03jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1236869366 0 :Robdgreat!i=rob@unaffiliated/robdgreat JOIN :#esoteric < 1236869366 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236869366 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1236869366 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1236869366 0 :ski__!n=md9slj@remote3.student.chalmers.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236869366 0 :irc.freenode.net!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o lament < 1236869412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, that table, over how many runs is it averaged < 1236869412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the details are in the PDF, I think < 1236869418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1236869425 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole article is about methodology for running comparative browser speed tests < 1236869492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure those differences are actually significant... < 1236869523 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neither am I < 1236869526 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would go and read the study, but my system is not on the list of Supported Operating Systems on that download page. < 1236869530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it also depends on which you tested first to a certain degree. DNS cache < 1236869535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: neither is mine, but it worked for me < 1236869541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same < 1236869546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I opened in kpdf < 1236869550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least it's just a pdf, last time I tried to get something from microsoft.com it was a pdf wrapped in an exe < 1236869562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there is an xls file too hm < 1236869567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder if that is the raw data < 1236869572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1236869573 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.xps, not .xls. < 1236869573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236869575 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xps < 1236869575 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xps? < 1236869577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is xps < 1236869579 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's microsoft's rival to pdf < 1236869582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see < 1236869583 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that nobody cares about but them < 1236869609 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"XML Paper Specification." Funny name. < 1236869629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, did they try to make it an ISO standard? < 1236869719 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're trying to make it an ecma standard at the moment < 1236869729 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ISO won't standardise it unless it's standardised by another standards body first < 1236869736 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either one out of two of Microsoft's student-related stuff-delivery-things (DreamSpark or the MSDN Academic Alliance thing) contained a copy of Windows (2k3 server for DreamSpark, various versions for MSDNAA) that was a .iso image (since you need to be able to install it) wrapped in an .exe file (so you can't actually burn it if you don't happen to already have access to a Windows system). < 1236869751 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although ECMA's widely believed to be controlled by Microsoft, I'm not sure whether that's true or not < 1236869758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1236869767 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: did it work under WINE? < 1236869770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does ECMA stand for? < 1236869799 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MSNDAA requires you to run a custom downloader. :( < 1236869802 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :european computer manufacturer's association < 1236869811 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it used to < 1236869812 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I actually think it didn't. Don't remember the details. It might've actually been the MSDNAA downloader, in fact. < 1236869815 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they renamed it to just ecma < 1236869818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are european computer manufacturers? < 1236869826 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when they decided to expand their own remit < 1236869828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARM I know, but they just design processors < 1236869833 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :microsoft certainly aren't european < 1236869859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well duh, but what are the European computer manufacturers if any that exist? < 1236869916 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I can't find any on Google < 1236869927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't a good sign, but I'm not very good at using online search engines < 1236869935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1236869974 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fujitsu Siemens is partially German (the Siemens side, surprisingly) and they manufacture computers. < 1236870137 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Granted, that's the only big-company example I can think of right now. < 1236870171 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: which isn't a good sign, but I'm not very good at using online search engines <<< google is not a search engine < 1236870182 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean, google isn't a search engine? < 1236870210 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google is a browser. < 1236870218 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't actually take your string and look for it on pages, at least when you'd actually need it to. < 1236870238 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i guess it's a bad search engine, it's a good suggestion engine maybe < 1236870260 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it finds what you want to find if you're searching for something that's easy to find anyway. < 1236870281 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ecma was founded in 1961, apparently; the computar system market back then might've been a bit different. < 1236870287 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's a browser, yes < 1236870380 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Microsoft Robotics Developer Studio 2008". They certainly crank out those tools at a rate. < 1236870422 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1236870432 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will soon get the parts for my mechanical TV < 1236870445 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nipkow Disk - done; Schematic collection - done; Buying - not done :( < 1236870450 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierk: you're building a mechanical TV? < 1236870452 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1236870455 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.sptv.demon.co.uk/nbtv/ < 1236870457 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :based on this tutorial < 1236870459 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is easy < 1236870462 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...way too easy < 1236870466 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are there any stations broadcasting in mechanical TV format? < 1236870483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, how many pixels horizontal resolution will you get? 16? < 1236870489 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :32x48 < 1236870492 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236870494 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not bad < 1236870497 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1236870502 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some even experimented with NTSC color < 1236870508 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and slightly larger res < 1236870511 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like 48xsomething < 1236870517 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the NBTV standard is 32x47 < 1236870518 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x48* < 1236870519 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236870540 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the Nipkow disk was tested a bit of times < 1236870595 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I used paper glued on "something quite better than cardboard" < 1236870603 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and made 32 holes for the image AND the hole in the middle < 1236870613 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And tested it on my lamp, so I know all the holes work < 1236870656 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, spun it manually < 1236870659 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1236870844 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236870844 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236870845 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236870848 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236870849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236870849 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236870849 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236870851 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236870852 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236870854 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236870856 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236870856 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236870856 0 :Robdgreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236870856 0 :kerlo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236870856 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236870856 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236870858 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236870859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236870861 0 :dbc!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236870862 0 :mtve!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236870862 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236870862 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236870864 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236870865 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236870865 0 :Dewio!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236870865 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236870868 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236870868 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236870870 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236870871 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236870873 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236870873 0 :Leonidas!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236870874 0 :ski__!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1236870948 0 :lament!n=lament@S010600110999ad06.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236870948 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1236870948 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-077-007.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1236870948 0 :tombom!i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1236870948 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@tavi.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1236870948 0 :oklopol!n=nnscript@a91-153-121-248.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1236870948 0 :neldoreth!n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth JOIN :#esoteric < 1236870948 0 :asiekierk!i=africalo@078088180066.elb.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1236870948 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-129-204.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236870948 0 :kerlo_!n=ihope@normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1236870948 0 :mtve!n=mtve@65.98.99.53 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236870948 0 :ineiros!n=ineiros@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1236870948 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@r03jjw8v9.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1236870948 0 :Robdgreat!i=rob@unaffiliated/robdgreat JOIN :#esoteric < 1236870948 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236870948 0 :SimonRC!n=sc@fof.durge.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1236870948 0 :dbc!n=daniel@130-94-161-238-dsl.hevanet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1236870948 0 :ski__!n=md9slj@remote3.student.chalmers.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236870948 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-15-119.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236870948 0 :Asztal!n=moo@chunkybacon.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1236870948 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@65.183.185.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236870948 0 :Dewio!n=dewi@124-171-184-160.dyn.iinet.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1236870948 0 :Leonidas!n=Leonidas@unaffiliated/leonidas JOIN :#esoteric < 1236870948 0 :Azstal!n=asztal@cpc2-stkn13-2-0-cust73.11-2.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1236870948 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1236870948 0 :ehird!n=ehird@208.78.103.223 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236870948 0 :fungot!n=fungot@momus.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1236870948 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1236870948 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1236870948 0 :psygnisfive!n=psygnisf@c-71-57-164-119.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236870948 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@92.254.128.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236870948 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-4-12.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236870948 0 :lifthrasiir!n=lifthras@haje12.kaist.ac.kr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236870948 0 :irc.freenode.net!unknown@unknown.invalid MODE #esoteric :+o lament < 1236870989 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and any manufacturer using the name "bluegreenish" would be killed by their own marketing people < 1236870989 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, why these two? They can reproduce a lot of natural colors < 1236870989 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They should use something like "Apple Blue" < 1236870989 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for marketing :) < 1236870989 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because humans see red as more different from blue or green than they see blue from green < 1236870989 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like that idea < 1236870989 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Red would be "Apple" < 1236870989 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yellow would be "Sun" < 1236870990 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Orange could be, er, "Sunset" < 1236870990 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, most humans can see in four colour channels < 1236870990 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some can only see three, colourblindness is if you can see in two or less < 1236870990 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Green would be "Ecological" < 1236870990 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Purple... < 1236871013 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it most? I thought tetrachromacy was rather rare? < 1236871027 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's not 100%, it's most < 1236871028 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"One study suggested that 2–3% of the world's women might have the kind of fourth cone that lies between the standard red and green cones, giving, theoretically, a significant increase in color differentiation.[3] Another study suggests that as many as 50% of women and 8% of men may have four photopigments.[2]" < 1236871028 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I thought tetrachromats were rare, and only among women < 1236871034 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if it's 99.9999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999%, it's "most" < 1236871040 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1236871045 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that's not "all" < 1236871054 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but 2-3 % is not really "most". < 1236871069 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal: I'm thinking of red, green, blue, and white < 1236871076 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :three cone channels and the rod channel < 1236871088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tetrachromats can see in /five/ colour channels < 1236871114 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which five < 1236871134 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whichever they like, they have this nob at the back of their heads < 1236871136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, "red, blue, green" are just common names for particular sorts of cone pigmentation < 1236871139 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X, Y, Z, white, and something else < 1236871162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that if you have four sorts of cones you can distinguish colours that can't be distinguished any other way < 1236871171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there must be colours tetrachromats can see that other people don't have a name for < 1236871173 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, uh, they have H, S, L switches in the back of their head? < 1236871177 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they can also see white? < 1236871195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1236871197 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's on the rods < 1236871206 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, rods generally don't work in the same situation as cones < 1236871225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in bright light, the rods are swamped and don't produce useful information, that's why your peripheral vision gets worse if it's too bright < 1236871238 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in dim light, the cones don't respond, so your vision is fuzzier and only in black and white < 1236871245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in between, your vision functions as normal < 1236871274 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so basically, the normal four-color people can see "in farbe" and the tetrachromats can see "in living color"? :D < 1236871295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, to be precise there are an infinite number of colours < 1236871300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and an infinite number of possible colour channels < 1236871301 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1236871308 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are "infinity-1" colors < 1236871323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a good-quality spectrometer, you can distinguish colour channels that no human can distinguish < 1236871325 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are "(infinity+amount_of_colors)/2" colour channels < 1236871340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierk: no, aleph-one to the power of aleph-1 I believe < 1236871348 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is probably aleph-2 < 1236871355 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a leph? < 1236871367 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aleph notation is one of the ways to represent infinities < 1236871376 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mathematicians aren't entirely clear on what infinities are available < 1236871388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it turns out there's more than one possible choice that leads to the maths being consistent < 1236871405 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, how much is "infinity-(infinity-523)" < 1236871414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not-a-number, obviously < 1236871420 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1236871421 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 523 < 1236871428 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, nice squabbling in the history there: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cones_SMJ2_E.svg < 1236871438 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmmm. < 1236871438 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only if the infinities are identical < 1236871444 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Infinity is infinity < 1236871448 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THERE'S NO OTHER DEFINITION < 1236871453 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are many infinities. < 1236871459 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An infinite amount, in fact. ;-) < 1236871471 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what infinity is the infinite amount? < 1236871496 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe it's aleph-null? < 1236871499 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :epsilon-zero, I believe < 1236871505 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww < 1236871507 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanted to say < 1236871507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : anyway, most humans can see in four colour channels some can only see three, colourblindness is if you can see in two or less <-- um? < 1236871508 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"...Deewiant, do you live in the another universe?" < 1236871516 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least, that's the name for the name for the number of infinities that can't be represented otherwise < 1236871517 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you're just making stuff up :) < 1236871518 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you said something completely logic < 1236871529 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hoped you would say "there are infinite possibilities" < 1236871531 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1236871540 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: He counts the rod cells as a color channel; read on further. < 1236871541 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's not the case. :-) < 1236871541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right explained a bit below < 1236871543 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: most humans can see in three cone channels (red, green, blue), and one rod channel < 1236871572 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if someone can see in two cone channels and two rod channels < 1236871578 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the channels are orange and bluegreenish < 1236871595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I know, nobody's ever found a colour-specific rod < 1236871597 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which can reproduce a fair bit of colors < 1236871604 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, rods are averaged over a large area < 1236871610 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, a quite-orange and a quite-blugreenisgh < 1236871613 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blugreenish* < 1236871617 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1236871618 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1236871624 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a quite-Sunset and a quite-Apple Blue < 1236871628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you couldn't extract colour information from them even if they could receive it < 1236871680 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, that's just like using a b&w receiver for living color! < 1236871692 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you can buy a field-sequential adapter set! < 1236871727 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's of course "colour-specific" in the sense that there is some frequency you can say is the peak: "Experiments by George Wald and others showed that rods are most sensitive to wavelengths of light around 498 nm (green-blue)" <- so blue-greenish is not far off. < 1236871749 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's still orange < 1236871751 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1236871751 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1236871752 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Susnet < 1236871753 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1236871755 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sunset! < 1236871772 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You may need to make your own sunset-rod. < 1236871782 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, but I need a 2cm Nipkow disk < 1236871796 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and an orange filter < 1236871801 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a photocell < 1236871804 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a blue-green LED < 1236871809 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait < 1236871811 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did I say orange < 1236871813 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and blue-green < 1236871817 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The marketing is gonna PWN me for that! < 1236871873 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1236871909 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So basically, HSL will be Appleness, Livingness and Shadiness respectively < 1236871912 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALS! < 1236871921 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1236871974 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also Viagra makes you see all blue-green: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cyanopsia < 1236871977 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How coincidental. < 1236871987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236871989 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU MEAN APPLE BLUE! < 1236872001 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure Apple wants to be associated with *that*. < 1236872047 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not Apple Blue as in the company < 1236872051 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But Apple Blue as in the fruit < 1236872069 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last I heard the Apple apple was white < 1236872094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't think it was any particular colour < 1236872095 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe nowadays; it used to be rather more colorful. < 1236872096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would be the best way to see all colours. Since the biological system doesn't work < 1236872106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wouldn't some sort of spectrometer or such work? < 1236872120 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/e/e3/Macintosh_128k_transparency.png has the good old logo in the lower-left corner. < 1236872148 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WELL THAT ONE DIDN'T HAVE A SPECIFIED COLOR! < 1236872163 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEY COULDN'T MAKE UP THEIR MIND OR WHAT? < 1236872168 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: prism works too < 1236872170 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shout mode off* < 1236872171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a primitive spectrometer < 1236872173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : But Apple Blue as in the fruit <-- apples are green/red/yellow. I haven't seen any *blue* apple < 1236872187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you still need to register the photons in some way < 1236872190 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it separates the physical locations of the colours, so you can see which ones are there and which ones aren't < 1236872197 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236872202 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking about Green apples < 1236872208 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Green Blue, Blue Green, bluegreenish < 1236872235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierk, nah, they tend to be yellowgreenish around here < 1236872246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't seen any bluegreenish < 1236872275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well wouldn't it be rather bulky? I mean, it is far from compact < 1236872276 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why it's Apple Blue not Apple < 1236872284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you couldn't really use it to make a vision system < 1236872294 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, yes < 1236872310 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but put it this way, humans simply don't have a sense that handles that much information at once < 1236872313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so what about some solution that *could* make a vision system < 1236872339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about robots? < 1236872350 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Simple_spectroscope.jpg has a nice picture of a prism-based spectroscope showing how liney a spectrum can be. < 1236872351 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even they only see in three colour channels, or one < 1236872358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :red/blue/green is typical for a charge-coupled device < 1236872359 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard that the brain receives about "100 bytes" per... uh... i don't remember < 1236872380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed < 1236872397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierk, how would you measure that... < 1236872406 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know < 1236872409 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just heard it somewhere < 1236872415 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and about 100 bytes is not exactly 100 bytes < 1236872415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well it could be useful with more < 1236872421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well duh < 1236872422 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think your garden-variety killer robot really needs that many color channels. < 1236872433 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it reffered that every while, only a small part of data is sent from the eyes to the brain < 1236872438 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, the part you're concentrating on < 1236872447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I was thinking about robots used in, say, scientific stuff. Like exploring Mars or whatever < 1236872457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they could definitely use it < 1236872489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, iirc the mars rovers do have some forms of spectrometers < 1236872499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe not visible light < 1236872502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't remember < 1236872573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, did you know common digital cameras can "see" a bit of infrared < 1236872583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just try it in front of a remote control < 1236872642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looked pink when I tried with my mobile phone camera (which I don't normally use, too bad resolution and no optical zoom) < 1236872678 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I wouldn't be surprised, but there are a huge number of possible shades of infrared < 1236872685 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a much broader range than visible < 1236872695 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'd only expect very near infrared to be visible < 1236872722 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Opportunity has a spectrometer for picking up scattered alpha particles and x-rays, and another in the gamma-ray range of frequencies; but I think the ones that actually take pictures with, you know, spatial information in them, only use a reasonable number of specific color channels. < 1236872722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is lament still opped? :P < 1236872740 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The wp page is not being very specific about the cameras. < 1236872783 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of our signal processing assignment had four-color-channel satellite photography; one was in the near-infrared range, the others corresponded vaguely to traditional red, green, blue. < 1236872808 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... it seems the BBC got control of a botnet < 1236872823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and used it to spam themself, and DDOS a company they had a prior arrangement with < 1236872845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then they changed the desktop background of all the infected computers and removed the botnet software using the botnet itself < 1236872856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, mhm < 1236872858 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, THAT BBC? < 1236872859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly < 1236872867 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in the UK TV company < 1236872872 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :z...zomg < 1236872880 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not, it gave them something to show programs around < 1236872881 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*about < 1236872895 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pancam.astro.cornell.edu has a technical briefing explaining they use an eight-channel system, so it's at least bit more than usual. < 1236872914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, link. or it didn't happen? < 1236872917 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/click_online/7884387.stm < 1236872931 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the link that the infected computers were redirected to (via an URL shortener) < 1236872937 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/programmes/click_online/7932816.stm < 1236872939 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the article about it < 1236872955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth < 1236872961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wanted to set lots of cookies < 1236872972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got 58 messages from firefox asking about cookies < 1236872973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the BBC's website is handwritten in Perl < 1236872978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no way I'm clicking on that again < 1236872988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ^ < 1236873003 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds like a rather legalistically vague thing to do. < 1236873015 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what I thought < 1236873018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I'm looking at the cookies now < 1236873036 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're all "If this exercise had been done with criminal intent it would be breaking the law. But our purpose was to demonstrate botnets' collective power when in the hands of criminals." but it does sound quite UK-centric at the very least. < 1236873039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only got three cookies < 1236873044 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The law", as if there's a single law in there. < 1236873067 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of them is massively long, though < 1236873076 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it appears to be a long hash in hex, followed by my useragent but URL-encoded < 1236873089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1236873108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I suspect the BBC are unlikely to worry about any laws but UK law in what they did < 1236873120 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and investigative journalists do all sorts of weird quasi-legal things < 1236873129 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the basis that they're hardly ever prosecuted for them < 1236873172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well usually they tend to not use it for bad stuff. But clean up after themselves and warn people about the risk < 1236873206 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a show on the UK where they steal stuff from people, then give it back < 1236873214 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised they haven't got in trouble for that yet < 1236873294 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they're just trusting the legal system to be sensible with all that "with criminal intent" stuff. Very optimistic. < 1236873317 0 :FireyFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236873333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I mean, I once found a botnet control channel on a network I was oper on. First thing I did after I was sure it was a botnet (by which point I had seen some commands executed too and know the syntax) was kill all the scriptkiddies controlling it, then I issued a command to pop up a dialog with a link to some website about how to remove this, think it was at fsecure, then I made all bots remove < 1236873333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : themselves from auto startup and then quit < 1236873355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so there are cases where you need to "quasi legal" things I guess < 1236873363 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"kill all the scriptkiddies controlling it" <<< this is probably illegal even without a criminal intent < 1236873364 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though the BBC one was worse < 1236873370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, /kill on irc.. < 1236873375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :learn what it is < 1236873379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1236873396 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236873403 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're awesome < 1236873403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well actually I used /kline iirc < 1236873409 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know you did < 1236873413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it was a few years ago < 1236873444 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, actually writing code and then tricking people to run it; code that does all kinds of email-sending stuff and so on, and introduces who knows how many security-related bugs while it's at it; is a bit different from snuffing out someone else's botnet like that. < 1236873456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: actually, they're trusting the Crown Prosecution Service not to prosecute < 1236873470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed < 1236873483 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Isn't that sort of part of "sensible behaviour from the legal system"? < 1236873499 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the CPS aren't really part of the legal system < 1236873501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amazingly, it took only 60 machines to overload the site's bandwidth. <-- interesting < 1236873503 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit confusing < 1236873507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder how fast connections they had < 1236873513 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're more involved with the police, but they aren't part of those either < 1236873531 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it would've been BBC paying for any costs if their code had a horrible, hard-disk-eating bug. < 1236873539 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's my guess too < 1236873555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1236873561 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: your removal, wouldn't that leave the botnet software there just inactive? < 1236873562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't take many ADSL connections < 1236873569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have 1 mbps up < 1236873573 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, changing the desktop background is probably cleverer than popping up a message box < 1236873579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 100 of them would hit a 100 mbps < 1236873581 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because people ignore messages boxes on Windows nowadays < 1236873588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I wouldn't know how to change the background < 1236873602 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Especially if it's a message box which says "Your Computer May Be At Risk!" < 1236873617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also it was impossible to fully uninstall it from itself. There seemed to be no general "execute command" < 1236873620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1236873622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: haha < 1236873635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway most ran windows 98 < 1236873637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1236873651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and most were South America, which is strange too < 1236873655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was < 1236873677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :were from* < 1236873691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:19 ais523: there must be colours tetrachromats can see that other people don't have a name for < 1236873693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hot < 1236873700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wanna get another cone implanted :P < 1236873714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:54 fizzie: I'm eagerly waiting for the next C++ sprint, I could actually work on jitfunge a bit at that point. < 1236873715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:54 AnMaster: jitfunge was in C++ right? < 1236873717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10:55 fizzie: It's like you read my mind here. < 1236873719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1236873721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:27 fizzie: Yes, this year is the last change to graduate from Helsinki University of Technology; after that your papers are from Aalto University. < 1236873724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ew < 1236873726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you are dealing with lag < 1236873728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1236873736 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-3-104.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236873737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I'm logreading < 1236873738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heard of it? < 1236873757 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually the wp page had an amusing sentence about implanting cones: "Notably, mice, which normally have only two cone pigments, can be engineered to express a third cone pigment, and appear to demonstrate increased chromatic discrimination, --" < 1236873758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes but here the C++ line was before fizzie's line < 1236873766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't stop it being funny, AnMaster. < 1236873770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes it does < 1236873781 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The word "engineered" there is funney. < 1236873783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway. I still don't see how 60 machines could overload the *bandwidth* of the server. Assuming normal home connections. < 1236873786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's rich coming from mr "all humour is subjective therefore if you think I'm not funny ehird you are wrong" < 1236873786 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's engineer some mice! < 1236873812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:56 AnMaster: oklopol, /kill on irc.. < 1236873812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:56 AnMaster: learn what it is < 1236873813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:56 AnMaster: -_- < 1236873815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fail :D < 1236873818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for AnMaster, that is) < 1236873822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is just "lag induced humor" is old < 1236873826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun the first time < 1236873829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun the tenth time < 1236873832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not the 100th time < 1236873835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blah blah blah, it was funny, so just shut up < 1236873847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, jokes get old < 1236873878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're just bitter because you're the target of it < 1236873906 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the technical term here is "butt". < 1236873930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's acting more like I just shot him. < 1236873998 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where does the "butt of the joke" thing even come from? Some ur-joke involving butts? < 1236874021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.sptv.demon.co.uk/nbtv/ <-- is there a pic of this in operationamation < 1236874065 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it's also: "A mark to be shot at; a target.". Maybe it's just that. How boring. < 1236874103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comment on that munctional video: "the disparity between the quiet sections and the loud sections is too great. you should fix it. " < 1236874104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XDD < 1236874170 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : No, it's more like if your door is already busted wide open and burglars are coming in and out, and a reporter wanders in. < 1236874174 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION beats someone with dynamic range. < 1236874181 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a good analogy, I wonder if the reporter would be doing something illegal than? < 1236874224 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: There's pictures of NBTV working in their forums. < 1236874235 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, you should be able to find some video on Youtube. < 1236874237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see no forums < 1236874338 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The goodness of the analogy depends on how they actually spread that little piece of their code. Was that mentioned in the article? I might have just skipped it. < 1236874441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut are we talking about < 1236874510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the BBC grabbing control of a botnet < 1236874524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DDDd < 1236874525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? < 1236874553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :buying it from some criminals, AFAICT < 1236874575 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, they just bought it. Well, that's a bit different. < 1236874583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psht < 1236874584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they didn't actually say < 1236874585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's boring < 1236874589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hoped they would exploit it < 1236874591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still < 1236874591 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they said they hung around in shady IRC channels < 1236874594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :taht's pretty awesome for the BBC < 1236874596 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and got it that way < 1236874601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not the details < 1236874606 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably they didn't want anyone to copy them < 1236874606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like this channel? < 1236874617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, probably not. < 1236874622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what would happen if someone tried to buy a botnet here < 1236874625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was a joke. < 1236874638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By prior agreement, Click launched a Distributed Denial of Service (DDoS) attack on a backup site owned by security company Prevx. < 1236874639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Click then ordered its slave PCs to bombard its target site with requests for access to make it inaccessible. < 1236874642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ermmmm < 1236874642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also why ask what we are talking about, just read scrollback. Like you said so many times < 1236874646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hypocrite < 1236874646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are the BBC admitting to htat < 1236874649 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could sell them a fungot-net. < 1236874649 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: is there a way to < 1236874657 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: For that, I would *make* a way to. < 1236874657 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ( but which knows the base path of the file < 1236874664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: shut up; I'm annoyed when people try and reply without reading, not when people ask what we're talking about < 1236874676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your accusations of hypocrisy would be more convincing were they ever right < 1236874685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you have been annoyed by both < 1236874689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so false < 1236874698 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, once they were done with spamming themselves and DOSing their friends, they changed the desktop background on the infected computers and disinfected them < 1236874701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm, sure, I'll just take your word for it. except I haven't. < 1236874703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also if you read the article < 1236874705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"By prior agreement, Click launched a Distributed Denial of Service (DDoS) attack on a backup site owned by security company Prevx. " < 1236874711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't sound "bad to admit" < 1236874721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dude I fucking pasted that from the article < 1236874732 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=arvid@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236874739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course that'd bad to admit? < 1236874744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bbc are admitting they ddosed a security company < 1236874759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but the security company said they could < 1236874762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236874762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "prior arrangement", that means "go ahead" < 1236874764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1236874766 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you misread the bit that AnMaster pasted? < 1236874768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read the article < 1236874768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought they meant prior agreement with the people they got it from < 1236874772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, _I_ posted that < 1236874777 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, he repasted it < 1236874785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, and tells me to read the article < 1236874786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:17 ehird: By prior agreement, Click launched a Distributed Denial of Service (DDoS) attack on a backup site owned by security company Prevx. < 1236874787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, " dude I fucking pasted that from the article" <-- But I asked about "read" < 1236874788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:17 ehird: Click then ordered its slave PCs to bombard its target site with requests for access to make it inaccessible. < 1236874789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not "paste" < 1236874790 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you pasted more than one bit, so talking about the bit he repasted it specified it better < 1236874791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :15:17 ehird: ermmmm < 1236874793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently he's blind < 1236874794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which seems to be different in your case < 1236874814 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, about the analogy; it sounds like it *might* be illegal in Finland, but might not; you can get a fine or up to 6 months of prison for "invading or secretly entering or entering by diverting someone" a place protected by the "domestic peace" rules. But if the door is open and you can walk in, maybe not. < 1236874821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, talking about yourself in third person? < 1236874831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, since you didn't see "By prior agreement" < 1236874839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I did, I misunderstood it, jackas < 1236874840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1236874856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb food < 1236874983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you know why the formula that psygnisfive gave — "If (x&y)==0, the point is in the sierpinski triangle" — works? < 1236875006 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's easy enough to prove < 1236875010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I know < 1236875013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, I have a program doing it < 1236875014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm wondering about how to see it in an intuitive sense < 1236875017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't know -why- < 1236875020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sierpinski is everywhere.. < 1236875031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfectly straight line in GoL, in this trivial formula... < 1236875036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(IN THE SIERPINSKI TRIANGLE <-- hur hur) < 1236875085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Mathematically, it's quite odd... < 1236875090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, bitwise and is an odd operation. < 1236875098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're choosing an arbitrary base, then operating on the individual digits. < 1236875104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which isn't very senseful, IMO. < 1236875112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I don't know why that would lead to Sierpinski... < 1236875121 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, bitwise operations tend to create similar patters to the sierpinski triangle < 1236875130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think of the fractal structure < 1236875148 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the same as binary, it doubles each digit < 1236875153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236875155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1236875159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1236875175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I wonder if it works for N dimensions? < 1236875179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you get a 3d sierpinski with x&y&z? < 1236875185 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so < 1236875209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's great < 1236875212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a lovely coincidence < 1236875222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1236875224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1236875226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not really a coincidence < 1236875229 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server" < 1236875236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how many recursions is it at? < 1236875243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what < 1236875243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it depends on what you mean by 3d sierpinsky < 1236875249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or iterations rather < 1236875251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: not a coincidence, but, not intended < 1236875253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's not iterations < 1236875255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong word first time < 1236875264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just < 1236875265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sierpinski < 1236875272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if x & y == 0, then (x,y) is in the sierpinski triangle < 1236875276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in = place a * < 1236875279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in = place nothing < 1236875303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://codepad.org/lQGGDWNZ < 1236875307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, lets say you have an 8x8 gird. then the (x&y) == 0 -> black? < 1236875315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> white. < 1236875319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where black = background. < 1236875320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok right < 1236875322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see my codepad link < 1236875334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if you do it at a 512x512 gird? < 1236875339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newsham made it centered, I've made it the right way up, I'm going to combine them < 1236875341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: THE SAME DAMMIT < 1236875355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so it is scaled or jut a section of it? < 1236875361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both. < 1236875367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes the output < 1236875369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it helps if you give it powers of two < 1236875382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise you get odd behaviour < 1236875397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what if you want it at a higher resolution? Like you know first iteration of a fractal, second and so on < 1236875404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's infinite < 1236875407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't seem to understand < 1236875408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1236875448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236875464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :codepad.org/Y1PV2gVc <- newsham's centered one, now I'll combine this with my downwards one < 1236875685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, every triangle can be divided in three new triangles and a hole in the middle. So your statement "in the sierpinski triangle"must indicate "edges" right? All other points will eventually be a hole with enough iterations. < 1236875701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. < 1236875707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that what "in" means for fractals? < 1236875725 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, given that many fractals are infinitely thin you have to count the edges < 1236875754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, centering is non-trivial: < 1236875760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * < 1236875760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ** < 1236875762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * * < 1236875764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : **** < 1236875766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because of the odd-ness. < 1236875769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I don't know the technical terms for them. But what about a fractal like the mandlebrot. in could also indicate the area inside it. It seems to "fractalise" "outwards" rather than "inwards" < 1236875796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can I have some of your drugs? < 1236875810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hah. < 1236875814 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the mandlebrot isn't infinitely thin < 1236875823 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So's your penis < 1236875825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, my point < 1236875825 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but on the other hand, it has an obvious protocol for inside/outside < 1236875829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hpaste.org/fastcgi/hpaste.fcgi/view?id=2336#a2336 Sierpinski version 2. < 1236875837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awesome code, awesome fractal. < 1236875838 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can tell if a point's in it or not just by doing the calculation < 1236875838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, exactly what I meant! < 1236875843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right way around, and aligned center. < 1236875875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas something like sierpinski the edges are obviously part of it, because if they weren't nothing would be < 1236875875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well true. But look at an image at n iterations. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Mandel_zoom_00_mandelbrot_set.jpg or whatever, the black area is very definitely "in it" < 1236875885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: are you not reading what I wrote? < 1236875888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, my point exactly. < 1236875892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes I am < 1236875894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds like you think I disagree with you < 1236875899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the problem with the mandelbrot set, it's mostly a huge black hole :-D < 1236875904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :multiple ones even < 1236875909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the interesting stuff is on the outskirts < 1236875929 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1236875931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, and there are even more of it there < 1236875953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, the sierpinski triangle is easier to "intuitively" understand how it is generated < 1236876000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cantor dust is easier, I independently invented cantor dust < 1236876003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236876005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cantor set < 1236876017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how did "set" end up as "dust" < 1236876018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cantor set's like a 1D sierpinsky < 1236876026 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sierpinski < 1236876026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: cantor dust = multi-dimensional cantor set < 1236876027 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sprinkles some Cantor dust on ehird < 1236876028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah < 1236876031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1236876033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :problem is, the cantor set is ... really boring < 1236876036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236876041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes it is easy to understand < 1236876149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but something like madelbrot, I have to sit down and look at the maths and even then I'm not really sure < 1236876182 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I resent the Mandelbrot fractal a bit though < 1236876187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1236876189 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It makes people forget about the old fractals < 1236876197 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there is a reasonable intuitivity about that thing: given any NxN square of bit-patterns for 00...00 to 11...11; you get the horizontal and vertical lines because of the 00..00, and the diagonal because ~x => N-x, and ~x & x == 0 always; and you get to do the same thing in the smaller N-1 x N-1 squares for those cases where the leading bits are either (0, 0), (0, 1) or (1, 0) because in those cases the bit in the and result is a zero, but in the final s < 1236876199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh...? < 1236876201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, mandelbrot is probably the prettiest, Slereah < 1236876201 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like the Weierstrauss function or the Peano filling curve < 1236876214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about the Julia set? That can be quite pretty < 1236876216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: but in the final s < 1236876218 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-- the final sub-square where the leading bits are (1, 1) there's always a common bit so the and is never == 0. < 1236876221 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most people seem to assume that it's the oldest < 1236876221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Julia set is basically a warped mandelbrot :P < 1236876227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well true < 1236876261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:725_Julia_sets.png < 1236876264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :remind you of anything < 1236876268 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, by N-1 there I mean N/2, of course. < 1236876273 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Julia's related to Mandelbrot < 1236876277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : yes < 1236876280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can make nice coloured versions of mandelbrot too < 1236876282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a Julia set for each point in Mandelbrot < 1236876320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coloured sierpinski? < 1236876324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably boring < 1236876352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is < 1236876354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've seen it < 1236876357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1236876363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1236876373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:725_Julia_sets.png definitely looks familiar < 1236876389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why I believe it is some Julia sets! ;) < 1236876392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ < 1236876393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: < 1236876394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/0/02/Sierpinski_triangle_%28RGB%29.jpg < 1236876396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coloured sierpinski < 1236876406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, coloured according to what rules < 1236876425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Top triangle is tinted red, bottom-left green, bottom-right blue. < 1236876425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems to be just one corner R, one corner G, one B and them colour mixing < 1236876428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Repeat recursively, of course. < 1236876431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1236876449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, boring. If I want to watch that I'll open the pallet in gimp or something ;) < 1236876450 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you can intuit that and-sierpinsky in a simpler way too: take a NxN square, where N is a power of two; the "lower-right" quadrant is always empty, since there you always have the leading 1 bit in common, while in the other three the leading bit of the and-result is always 0, so the content is just a down-scaled version of the whole square. This rather intuitively leads to a sierpinski. < 1236876457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there's a pretty fractal without great big holes. < 1236876543 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The sierpinski-square-based pyramid looks nifty, though: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sierpinski_pyramid.png < 1236876551 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe not very constructable-out-of-legos. < 1236876556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it occurs to me that the and-sierpinski is more efficient than most algorithms for it (maybe all) < 1236876558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no recursion or anythin < 1236876559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g < 1236876566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just O(size) or something < 1236876576 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=BeholdMy@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236876578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, some of the prettier julia sets seems to happen around the edges of mandelbrot in http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:725_Julia_sets.png < 1236876595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236876598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:725_Julia_sets.png is very... Xzibit. < 1236876607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you know what I mean. < 1236876610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "Xzibit"? < 1236876612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no I don't < 1236876616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yo dawg. < 1236876624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...? < 1236876629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've told you this 10 times. < 1236876642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xzibit is the guy on the horrible MTV show "Pimp My Ride", which is where the "yo dawg" meme comes from. < 1236876649 0 :asiekierk!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :asiekierka < 1236876664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure you told me? It doesn't even sound slightly familiar < 1236876677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you told me unless you can prove it in logs < 1236876685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very well, I shall grep. < 1236876704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you said "Yo dawg." before though < 1236876710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not "Xzibit" < 1236876725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:08 ehird: To Xzibit's body. < 1236876725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:08 AnMaster: huh? < 1236876726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:08 ehird: Xzibit is the origin of the yo dawg meme. < 1236876726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, of course, I could be wrong < 1236876729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009-03-05. < 1236876732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236876734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is just from late February, when I upgraded. < 1236876737 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In fact, later than that. < 1236876744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used Linkinius at first. < 1236876750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So this is just from when Linkinius expired. < 1236876753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mhm. < 1236876914 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I've ever had a shareware program expire on me < 1236876930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor an unactivated for-pay Microsoft program, I generally activate them ASAP < 1236876934 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :over the telephone! < 1236876953 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the GPL EULA thing would have expired by now, but I just edited out the licence check < 1236876963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Buddhabrot.jpg <-- now that looks cool. Just a way to render Mandelbrot but still.. < 1236876994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never had an unactivated for-pay Microsoft program expire on me because I don't use them < 1236876995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1236876997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the burning ship fracta < 1236876998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :l < 1236877008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Burning_Ship_Fractal_Zoom.png < 1236877010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't seen that one *googles* < 1236877010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236877012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there was a more ghostly image somewhere on WP < 1236877016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't find it < 1236877020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for once I'm prepared to google and you link it < 1236877020 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I used to use other people's Windows computer before I got Linux < 1236877022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P ~ < 1236877030 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I actually used to be a Windows power user, but am a bit rusty nowadays < 1236877039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just being good at Windows doesn't make Windows any better to use... < 1236877041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, it was obscure enough to warrant it < 1236877060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I used windows from 1998-2006; it was pretty rough all the way through. < 1236877069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that look like "Eifel Tower as seen by " < 1236877076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236877077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't remember name right now.. < 1236877078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Salvador Dali. < 1236877082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1236877084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's right < 1236877092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :come on, I'm art illiterate and even I know that :-P < 1236877101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I didn't remember how to sell it < 1236877103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spell* < 1236877116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :selling Salvador Dali paintings is probably very easy. < 1236877120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1236877132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so predictable that joke :P < 1236877265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Nebulabrot.jpg < 1236877275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice. < 1236877304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, apparently it is http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Buddhabrot.jpg but different colour set < 1236877553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw I remember seeing mandelbrot in vim < 1236877558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't remember url < 1236877584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is quite interesting. (compared to if it was emacs, then it would probably be built in ;) < 1236877677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I showed you that. < 1236877683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When talking about TECO. < 1236877691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.spacetimetravel.org/tuebingen/tuebingen.html <-- anyone know the program that let you do this on arbitrary 3d shit? < 1236877694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used it onc < 1236877694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1236877695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh ok. When was this? Must have been at least half a year ago < 1236877695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was fun < 1236877702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, it was yesterday or the day before. < 1236877712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err I have known of such a program for ages in vm < 1236877713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vim* < 1236877718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2009-03-10_Freenode.txt:19:27 ehird: http://www.df.lth.se/~lft/vim/mandelbrot < 1236877730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your reply: < 1236877731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:28 AnMaster: .se... oh my < 1236877746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes, I didn't remember seeing it on .se < 1236877758 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs doesn't have mandlebrot built in < 1236877763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but I have seen mandelbrot in vim before < 1236877765 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are lots of implementations on the Internet < 1236877767 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mandelbrot < 1236877769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I even ran it < 1236877782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sshed to a box with vim and tried < 1236877796 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you don't have vim on your own computer? < 1236877809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no. As I said many times before < 1236877821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not everyone has emacs, not everyone has Gnome. Not everyone has KDE < 1236877824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have vi? If not, your machine isn't POSIX or UNIX compliant. Congratulations on your zealotry. < 1236877836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I do have a minimal vi yes < 1236877841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all POSIX computers have a vi implementation, but at least on Ubuntu it's a minimal implementation not vim < 1236877851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God, that mandelbrot vi program is slow. < 1236877855 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Manual-synced NBTV parts: still waiting < 1236877858 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :la la < 1236877859 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ busybox vi < 1236877860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like slow slow. < 1236877860 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : LA LA < 1236877861 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :la la < 1236877864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck off < 1236877866 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an even more minimal vi on my computer < 1236877866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: < 1236877877 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...THAT'S WHAT [EHIRD] SAID! < 1236877880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(before anyone says that was harsh, asiekierka's "la"s go on for 30m) < 1236877884 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Options: < 1236877885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : -c Initial command to run ($EXINIT also available) < 1236877887 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : -R Read-only - do not write to the file < 1236877888 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : -H Short help regarding available features < 1236877898 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(la la, LA LA, la la, I am not listening) < 1236877900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh god, that towers of hanoi game < 1236877903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is actually < 1236877904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :playable < 1236877904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I took my vi from http://ex-vi.sourceforge.net/ I think < 1236877905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the user < 1236877907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never use it < 1236877907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not joking < 1236877916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not an AI < 1236877918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just cool < 1236877935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. < 1236877937 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas vim.tiny gives me loads of options < 1236877939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just typing zzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzzz wins. < 1236877944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hah < 1236877946 0 :comex!n=comex@teklinks.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1236877947 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1236877960 0 :comex!n=comex@teklinks.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1236877983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway vi isn't required by POSIX in fact. Since shell or other standard tools are actually optional < 1236877992 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to make it possible to support POSIX on embedded systems < 1236878004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's certainly required for UNIX < 1236878007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a special "embedded profile" or something, forgot the name < 1236878008 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's required by workstation POSIX I think < 1236878010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you have a shell I believe you must have vi < 1236878014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes but POSIX != UNIX < 1236878018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, true < 1236878032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just pointing out that ehird was factually incorrect < 1236878036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, in busybox vi < 1236878037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anyone know about that speed of light thing < 1236878041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ? < 1236878043 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typing ? then newline makes it segfault < 1236878048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1236878057 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a bug, I should see if it's still in the most recent version < 1236878067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, says "pattern not found" here < 1236878073 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: using busybox < 1236878075 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1236878076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes < 1236878084 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone want to help me with prolog? < 1236878087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236878099 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BusyBox v1.10.2 (Ubuntu 1:1.10.2-1ubuntu7) multi-call binary < 1236878101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, busybox 1.13.2 /bin/busybox: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.9, statically linked, stripped < 1236878103 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: I'll help if you like < 1236878108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, my busybox is old < 1236878129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody know? < 1236878138 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://pastie.org/414276 < 1236878153 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can load that, but if I then type valid(X), I don't get any results < 1236878160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1236878161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.adamauton.com/warp/ < 1236878162 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas I expect amo, amas < 1236878170 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you run first_conj? < 1236878172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in my package manager the versions 1.12.2-r1 1.13.2 ~1.13.3 are available. ~ signifying testing, since I'm running a stable system it would require me to unmask that one with an entry in /etc/portage/package.keywords < 1236878184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, you didn't < 1236878187 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that program doesn't run first_conj < 1236878194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it /defines/ firstconj(am) as a fact < 1236878201 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need :- first_conj(am). to run it < 1236878286 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which prolog is a language and not first-order logic :u < 1236878307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway *uninstalls ex-vi* *links /bin/vi to /bin/busybox < 1236878308 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: it would work fine if you were using backward chaining < 1236878311 0 :BeholdMyGlory_!n=BeholdMy@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236878312 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is? < 1236878314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a few saved bytes < 1236878315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1236878320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: not using assert < 1236878324 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and instead doing the conjugation at runtime < 1236878326 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I don't want to use assert < 1236878328 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I avoid it < 1236878334 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what exactly are you trying to do? < 1236878343 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I just say valid(Word), I get an existence error < 1236878343 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1236878349 0 :BeholdMyGlory_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :BeholdMyGlory < 1236878355 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's because valid should be defined to calculate if a word is valid < 1236878366 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to make a big list of valid words < 1236878369 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by building up endings < 1236878381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in valid (Word) :- root(R), ending(E), atom_concat(R,E,Word) < 1236878387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and root listing valid roots, and ending listing valid endings < 1236878397 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do I have to go backwards? < 1236878397 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I forgot the full stop on my example, but you can add it < 1236878413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: it's called backward chaining in that it doesn't calculate the list unless you ask for it < 1236878434 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words, if you write valid('amat'), it then looks for a root and ending that fit together to make 'amat' < 1236878456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :putting atom_concat at the start of valid rather than the end would be faster if an argument was provided, but crash if you just wrote valid(X) < 1236878457 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the tutorials use something like < 1236878469 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man(socrates). man(plato). < 1236878475 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can ask who is a man. < 1236878479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236878483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what's happening here < 1236878487 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my example < 1236878492 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the full program would be < 1236878495 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, in that example I have to define all possible roots in one big thing < 1236878510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you "get" prolog. < 1236878515 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't. < 1236878522 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ending(o). ending(as). root(am). valid(Word) :- root(R), ending(E), atom_concat(R,E,Word). < 1236878525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't write procedures that template facts; prolog has that built in. < 1236878527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's called foo :- bar. < 1236878529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's your template. < 1236878554 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: except what if I want to say < 1236878566 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's valid, and valid(foo), and valid(bar) < 1236878572 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't want to stick it in one big expression < 1236878576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: do < 1236878577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :valid(foo). < 1236878580 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't stuck in one big expression < 1236878581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's only template if you have :_ < 1236878583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::- < 1236878584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can doo < 1236878591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :valid(foo). valid(bar). valid(Word) :- ... < 1236878598 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really? < 1236878601 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1236878603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... yes ... < 1236878604 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, that makes more sense < 1236878607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like haskell pattern matching, comex < 1236878612 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each definition you give is an alternative definition < 1236878615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can define it multiple times, except it's one < 1236878618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it tries them all < 1236878651 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why the program you pasted doesn't work, it's treating first_conj(am) as an alternate definition of first_conj, not an attempt to run it < 1236878678 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, actually running an expression is quite difficult in prolog, although possible, because it's generally bad form < 1236878697 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to write a better version < 1236878712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.drmaciver.com/2009/02/spam/ < 1236878809 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://pastie.org/414288 < 1236878813 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works, but it seems very verbose < 1236878819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ < 1236878819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ < 1236878820 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to say first_conj twice etc < 1236878820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ < 1236878822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ < 1236878824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fail < 1236878836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: "very verbose"? < 1236878840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The planets we live on; they differ. < 1236878845 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sovietrussia.org/code/src/1182815183936.png < 1236878847 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236878851 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's typical Prolog < 1236878853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: old. < 1236878862 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You hurt my feelings < 1236878882 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you want to make it shorter, you can do s1(X) :- member(X,[s,t,mus,tis,nt]). < 1236878889 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's just a slightly shorter abbreviation < 1236878896 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :writing it out in full is idiomatic < 1236878902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's talking about the valid() < 1236878903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :part < 1236878925 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's nothing wrong with that, apart from Prolog's traditional lack of nested expressiosn < 1236878927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*expressions < 1236878929 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is is a hack, really < 1236878946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: FWIW, if you want to be more current, I would focus on "GRUNNUR". < 1236878960 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a way for me to "split" the goal into two, so I would just say first_conj once? < 1236878989 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but that would also be unidiomatic < 1236878992 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fair enough < 1236878995 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use ; to combine common parts of two goals < 1236878995 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but what is it :p) < 1236879020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sheesh, comex just wants to write his perfect language in every language < 1236879033 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: not really, I just want to generate a list of valid latin words with minimal typing < 1236879043 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :valid (Word) :- first_conj(Root), (atom_concat(Root, o, Word) ; s1(Ending), atom_concat(Root, a, X), atom_concat(X, Ending, Word)). < 1236879050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're typing an awful lot of complaining about the AWFUL VERBOSITY into #esoteric < 1236879054 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: thought prolog might be a good way to do it < 1236879057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes you repeat a few characters when coding! < 1236879059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how crazy < 1236879060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a good way < 1236879071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just deal with the verbosity, it's _one_ _line_ < 1236879079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even a full line < 1236879080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a tiny line < 1236879085 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: typical indentation style with that ; would be to line up the ; vertically underneath the opening bracket of the (;) group < 1236879087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, Hm. Erlang looks like Prolog, but prolog doesn't look like Erlang. < 1236879090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523's version is way unreadable < 1236879091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is my conclusion < 1236879108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: if you run it through gprolog's pretty-printer, it's relatively readable, but the idiomatic version is better < 1236879142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is actually a slight semantic difference between the version with ; and without < 1236879157 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what? < 1236879158 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that the version with ; only runs side-effects that first_conj might have once, and the split version runs them twice < 1236879177 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 non-functionally-pure languages < 1236879194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :; is just semantic sugar, though, for defining a new predicate and using each of the two halves of the predicate as an alternative definition for the new predicate < 1236879208 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ; is nice because you don't want to go around defining lots of junk predicates for no reason < 1236879217 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, most of Prolog is syntactic sugar < 1236879221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1236879225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you should use the idomatic one < 1236879228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case < 1236879228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really < 1236879230 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case, yes < 1236879235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :; is mostly useful only in really big predicates < 1236879249 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if you really really need to avoid duplication for some reason < 1236879262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : first_conj(Root), < 1236879266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the entirety of the duplication < 1236879267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think about that < 1236879271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C< that would be < 1236879271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, like golfing? < 1236879275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first_conj(root); or whatever < 1236879277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's saying < 1236879281 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, like if something had side effects < 1236879281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that refactoring into a procedure < 1236879282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then calling it < 1236879285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236879286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes the multiple calls REPETITION < 1236879289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's _ridiculous_ < 1236879290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you definitely don't want to call fork() too many times, for instance < 1236879305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fork_prolog(Pid) is in gprolog's standard library < 1236879324 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you wouldn't want to duplicate that, and you probably wouldn't want to backtrack past it either unless you really knew what you were doing < 1236879327 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, not in both resulting threads < 1236879331 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*processes < 1236880348 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forking, prolog, heheh < 1236880359 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's so weird about that? < 1236880366 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's much the same as forking in any other language < 1236880897 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you come onto an IRC network and find that services are down < 1236880907 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it usual to write your own copy of ChanServ to guard a channel for you? < 1236880931 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/414328 < 1236880932 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1236880954 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks good < 1236881297 0 :neldoret1!n=user@81-223-127-237.stpeter.xdsl-line.inode.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1236881457 0 :jix_!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-112-229.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1236881778 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1236882118 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :No route to host < 1236882252 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236882855 0 :ehird___!n=ehird@91.105.126.163 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236882872 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Richard M. "Orwell" Stallman: < 1236882874 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Adobe flash plug-in is non-free software, and people should not < 1236882874 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :install it, or suggest installing it, or even tell people it exists. < 1236882874 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That Firefox offers to install it is a very bad thing. < 1236882909 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does any of this explain his giant disgusting beard < 1236882948 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Stallman doesn't 'get' free software < 1236882949 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The beard is a byproduct of his bullshit-producer (mouth) < 1236882954 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just look at the original licence to his Emacs manual < 1236882969 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just as with proprietary software, he was trying to put on unremovable restrictions < 1236882978 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :luckily, the GPL stops him just as much as it stops everyone else... < 1236882979 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you mean refusing to tell people non-free software exists won't solve the problem of non-free software?! shit! < 1236882994 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1236883002 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If we ignore them, maybe they'll disappear! < 1236883003 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and refusing to port Emacs to Windows won't stop people porting it to Windows < 1236883023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bruce Perens has much the right idea, I think, he wrote the DFSG < 1236883028 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least was very influential behind it < 1236883031 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, can you ping 208.78.103.223? < 1236883038 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you want me to try? < 1236883048 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I can't; it's my slice < 1236883070 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, I can < 1236883080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64 bytes from 208.78.103.223: icmp_seq=1 ttl=45 time=120 ms < 1236883082 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64 bytes from 208.78.103.223: icmp_seq=2 ttl=45 time=119 ms < 1236883091 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I haven't heard Bruce Perens say anything that isn't insane, which is more than I can say for most FOSS people < 1236883098 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :64 bytes from 208.78.103.223: icmp_seq=1 ttl=56 time=0.000 ms :D < 1236883129 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: sshd is running over there < 1236883131 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0ms? you lucky bugger, how fast is that connection! :P < 1236883134 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although pretty obviously I can't log in < 1236883142 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: good. I cannot connect via SSH or IRC. < 1236883147 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus the ___ < 1236883156 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :three underscores? that's quite a lot < 1236883182 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had __ for asking #slicehost, because I didn't want to risk just _ being online for some reason, but it hasn't disconnected yet :P < 1236883298 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ESR on Bruce Perens: Damn straight I took it personally. And if you ever again behave like that kind of disruptive asshole in public, insult me, and jeopardize the interests of our entire tribe, I'll take it just as personally -- and I will find a way to make you regret it. Watch your step. < 1236883303 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A strong endorsement. < 1236883568 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having recipes for non-free programs in the ports system is more like < 1236883568 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including present-day neofascist web sites in the list of "interesting < 1236883568 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :links" in your web site. I am against censorship, so I do not believe < 1236883568 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in closing down those neofascist web sites. But I won't refer people < 1236883568 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to them. < 1236883573 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ gahahahahahaha < 1236883602 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, change of plans, i'm not getting a miniature toy fan and modifying it < 1236883605 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm getting a motor < 1236883614 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but tommorow, sadly < 1236884300 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, I've never written a Mandelbrot set viewer; just realised. < 1236884308 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well I've tried, but the algorithm never was right. < 1236884375 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've written one < 1236884384 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it breaks down if you zoom too far due to FP rounding errors < 1236884407 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell has a library for infinite precision floating point I think < 1236884435 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't get infinite precision generalised floating point < 1236884440 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get infinite precision rationals < 1236884450 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and arbitrarily high precision floating point, that's what a bigfloat is < 1236884453 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hcouldn't you find a base that can represent a number precisely in finit edigits, for any number? < 1236884529 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: pi? < 1236884532 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :root 2? < 1236884548 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can find a base that represents a number precisely in finite digits for any rational number, but not for any irrational number < 1236884576 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good point < 1236884580 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i mean, things like, oh what it is < 1236884585 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0.2 is 0.199999999999 or something < 1236884590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION catches ehird in a butterfly net -----\XXXXX/ < 1236884595 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was focusing on those errors < 1236884612 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, those can be fixed using bigrationals < 1236884674 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but do bigfloats automatically change their precision? < 1236884681 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackage.haskell.org/packages/archive/numbers/latest/doc/html/Data-Number-BigFloat.html doesn't < 1236884696 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder if there's gmp bindings < 1236884937 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr, I'm unplugging/repluggin my router < 1236884962 0 :neldoret1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1236885167 0 :neldoreth!n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth JOIN :#esoteric < 1236886010 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1236886234 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: whoa! by adding only a few, very simple lines of code to my sierpinski program, it's rendering a PNG of it! (just need to fix one bug) < 1236886273 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird___: the joy of a good stdlib < 1236886283 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would probably be just one extra wrapper function in mathematica < 1236886286 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: actually, it's from Hackage, but it was just a one-liner to install it < 1236886291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whose only redeeming feature is a good stdlib < 1236886294 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's amazing what good-factored code gets you < 1236886298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236886692 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oi < 1236886705 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ve avoi < 1236886784 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im glad to see my comments on the sierpinski gasket generated such lengthy discussion < 1236886796 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any solutions to the problem of why its so ubiquitous? < 1236886867 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps God is a gigantic sierpinski triangle. < 1236886875 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps! :O < 1236886917 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HUZZAH < 1236886983 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got into University of Maryland :D < 1236887073 0 :neldoreth!n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth JOIN :#esoteric < 1236887149 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tony morris found by police; unharmed < 1236887222 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that's useful, I hope he stays alive < 1236887242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb neldoreth < 1236887251 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he had lots of time to kill himself had he wanted to. < 1236887261 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1236887276 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if he actually wanted to, we'd have no chance because he'd h ave been dead before the message was sent out < 1236887343 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks and hello all < 1236887347 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hi < 1236887412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird___: some people want to commit suicide but don't really want to, so they give people a chance to talk them out of it first < 1236887418 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, let's move onto less morbid things < 1236887430 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 -- my current centering algorithm (stole from newsham :)) is "insert ((height - y)/2) blank spaces before the sierpinski stuffs" -- any way to fix that? because on the last line, it produces (h/2) spaces < 1236887437 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, yes, I know that... I'm not thick. < 1236887461 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird___: what particular is wrong with that? < 1236887503 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523 -- http://www.nopaste.com/p/abzexHoIj < 1236887586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what's y? < 1236887599 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : | y <- [h-1,h-2..0] ] < 1236887610 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., from h-1 to 0, downwards < 1236887638 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it ends up as (h-0)... hmm... ah, wait... < 1236887640 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that algorithm shouldn't be producing the results you pasted < 1236887658 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, it would lead to only half a space on line 1 < 1236887669 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :integer division :P < 1236887697 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you have loads of spaces on line 1 < 1236887704 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than none < 1236887731 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except; the extra spaces come fromL < 1236887737 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [ x .&. y == 0 | x <- [w-1,w-2..0] ] < 1236887743 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is catenated to the blanks < 1236887753 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, I'm too tired to think about this atm < 1236887764 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm seriously sleep-deprived after a couple of intensive modules < 1236887772 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codepad.org/Y1PV2gVc the original version, which works without flipping < 1236888054 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://groups.google.ca/group/rec.arts.sf.written/msg/073bea1aa44c9396 was a funny story. < 1236888077 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236888175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236888219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google for "pi" and the calculator gives you: pi = 3.14159265 < 1236888221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1236888227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := ? < 1236888309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be ≈ < 1236888323 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mathematics: it's not like it's an exact science. < 1236888340 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about tony morris < 1236888348 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its true, he'd been dead long before the message was sent < 1236888360 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@a-230.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1236888363 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cause he'd probably code a chat bot to send the message for him < 1236888384 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaking of idiots attempting suicide, where'd they find him? < 1236888398 0 :ehird____!n=abc@91.105.87.195 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236888406 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it WAS scripted -- multiple emails and IRC channels at once < 1236888410 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh was it? < 1236888413 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha. nerd. :D < 1236888424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, btw if pi is a *normal* number as well as a transcendental one (which iirc is proven) wouldn't that mean that every number sequence will in the long run show up in the decimals on pi < 1236888427 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, he's not an idiot, he had chronic pain due to an ankle injury for 2 years < 1236888432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, right? < 1236888435 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, this is why geeks shouldnt commit suicide. they're too awesom. < 1236888438 0 :ehird___!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1236888453 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you try having excruciating pain 24/7 for 2 years < 1236888469 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how long have i been coming here talking to you? < 1236888475 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to boot, he thinks the doctors misdiagnosed him -- and there hasn't been any progress on it so far. He tried to self-amputate a while back. < 1236888488 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, har har har < 1236888491 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jesus that would've been a mistake < 1236888491 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P < 1236888495 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236888507 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and, why? He can't exactly use the ankle. < 1236888507 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure normality is required, but yes, I guess at the very least a normal number should get every number sequence sooner or later. < 1236888509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird____, what's up with your nick btw? < 1236888511 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amputating a leg that's had chronic pain for an extended period of time often leads of phantom limb syndrome < 1236888528 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which the pain remains, but the limb can no longer be anaesthetized, etc. < 1236888533 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: yikes. < 1236888535 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. < 1236888538 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yikes indeed. < 1236888543 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: router troubles, connected via telnet < 1236888554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, which would make PI a so called "illegal number" in theory. Since it would contain the binary, and source code, of every program in existence. Or ever possible < 1236888559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1236888576 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, your thoughts are as old as the 70s. < 1236888582 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What matters is _INTENT_. < 1236888598 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Read http://ansuz.sooke.bc.ca/lawpoli/colour/2004061001.php < 1236888599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird____, well yes. But this would be an interesting new file sharing idea. Just share offset in pi < 1236888602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236888610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compression too < 1236888612 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pi-based file-sharing is not a new idea either. < 1236888618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1236888622 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, let's wait until the head death of the universe before sharing anything other than pi < 1236888624 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen it proposed (unseriously) somewhere. < 1236888640 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err this is an IWC reference? < 1236888642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or? < 1236888649 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heat death. A typo. < 1236888652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236888662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it did end up as an IWC reference though :) < 1236888676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes of course it wouldn't be practical < 1236888677 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now; someone fix my shit router. < 1236888678 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres some file sharing system out there < 1236888685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird____, tried rebooting it? < 1236888685 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where you never download whole files < 1236888689 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but instead download pieces of noice < 1236888691 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :noise* < 1236888696 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh, yes anmaster < 1236888697 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which can be reused for MULTIPLE files < 1236888707 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no one piece can be claimed to be infringing on anything < 1236888709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird____, what is the issue you are having with it? < 1236888713 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, yes, it's stupid, it's written by an idiot who knows nothing about copyright law < 1236888731 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know. it sounded bullshit because ok the noise isnt copyrightable < 1236888735 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the key to decode it is < 1236888743 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster, i can't reach my slice < 1236888747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, what if that key is a prime number? < 1236888755 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the key is more than just that tho < 1236888759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, your slice? < 1236888761 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a prime whose source is decss < 1236888766 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gzipped < 1236888772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird____, I know < 1236888776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was making a reference to that < 1236888781 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you distributed it as a prime thing, that's fine < 1236888788 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you distirbuted it as decss, that's illegal < 1236888788 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the key is a decode number plus references to the pieces of noise that need to be decoded < 1236888791 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :again, coloured bits < 1236888796 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slice = slicehost VP < 1236888797 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S < 1236888813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah, you can't reach your vps. I could try to traceroute it if I knew the ip < 1236888823 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Others can connect; 208.78.103.223 < 1236888825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case it is the vps that is having isues < 1236888828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :issues* < 1236888829 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not < 1236888830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm ok < 1236888836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you try traceroute? < 1236888841 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :traceroute gives my VPS, then * forever < 1236888870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21 hops but works fine here < 1236888881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe it is some firewall gone wrong on the vps? or such < 1236888929 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IT'S AN ISSUE ON MY ROUTER < 1236888933 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like i said, twice < 1236888937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok right. How do you know? < 1236888963 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because everyone else can ping, traceroute and connect via ssh, because I can't reach manage.slicehost.com either, and because the traceroute fails AFTER MY ROUTER < 1236888967 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_right_ after it < 1236888969 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like I said < 1236888979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236888981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1236888983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1236888995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, does it affect just slicehost or anything else? < 1236889018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it is like that thing I remember reading about. Wikipedia being blocked by UK ISPs for some time iirc < 1236889037 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's really not. there's absolutely no basis for claiming it is, other than "UK" being in common < 1236889037 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You said "traceroute gives my VPS, then * forever" which does not sound equivalent to "fails right after my router". < 1236889038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they blocked something else on the same ip < 1236889044 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/vps/router/ < 1236889072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed < 1236889117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, try to calm down. I read about this thing called "mindfulness", though it did look like a piece of bull****, it might help. don't know~ < 1236889134 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now if you people could stop being interesting for tonight, I might get done this thing I need to write. < 1236889149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so you can't access manage.slicehost.com either. Would that extend to *.slicehost.com ? < 1236889214 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236889222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1236889227 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1236889230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1236889273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird____, this is very strange indeed. Two ips at slicehost doesn't work, but everything else does? < 1236889274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1236889310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though I know routers are crappy I have a hard time seeing how it could be that crappy < 1236889383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird____, I wish you good luck making it work. Tried a factory reset? How to do that varies between models. On some you hold some button down while it is booting for example < 1236889392 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd rather not < 1236889396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(like power button on mine) < 1236889413 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird____, I understand that < 1236889421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird____, tried telneting to your router? < 1236889435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually that works better than webuis < 1236889454 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't. < 1236889461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1236889465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on mine it works < 1236889473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and shows lots of nice hidden options too < 1236889477 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yours isn't a locked down piece of shit rented from orange as part of the plan < 1236889493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird____, mine was sent by the ISP as part of the plan < 1236889496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not same ISP no < 1236889509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :combined ADSL-modem/router < 1236889517 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird:~] % telnet 192.168.1.1 < 1236889517 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trying 192.168.1.1... < 1236889517 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :telnet: connect to address 192.168.1.1: Connection refused < 1236889542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well for fun try nmapping it, just do it at slow rate or you are likely to crash it < 1236889571 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a random piece of trivia: I have a ZyXEL ADSL thing, which speaks a bit of SNMP, but only the outgoing link speed is visible in the SNMP values (as interface speed); the incoming speed, which I'd sort-of like to monitor out of curiosity, is not even the ZyXEL-specific SNMP MIB, it's only available in the telnet (and webui) interfaces. < 1236889656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I don't think mine has SNMP. How would I check? < 1236889722 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, well, you can poke it with a SNMP request, but presumably if it has it, the community IDs ("public", "private" by default) are configurable somewhere. < 1236889749 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, it has quite a few open ports < 1236889760 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :53/tcp open domain < 1236889760 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :80/tcp open http < 1236889760 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9100/tcp open jetdirect < 1236889760 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :49153/tcp open unknown < 1236889786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, which port? < 1236889788 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, how do you kill telnet from inside? it's irritating < 1236889799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^[ iirc < 1236889804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is Ctrl-[ < 1236889817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is the escape code for it in my case < 1236889818 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's an UDP thing, and it might not answer to invalid-looking requests, so you probably need some snmp-utils package installed. < 1236889820 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, it's ^] < 1236889825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird____, oh maybe < 1236889832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird____, it says when you start it < 1236889833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1236889851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, nmap no good? < 1236889851 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, all the ports are boring apart from 9100 which gives "3" -- wonder how to use them. < 1236889871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, did you try service scan thingy < 1236889878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of nmap < 1236889892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-sV iirc < 1236889892 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wuzzat < 1236889903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ? < 1236889907 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kay, running it < 1236889912 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, I guess you could try nmapping UDP port 161, I mean theoretically it could send back icmp port-unreachables or something if it doesn't answer at all. < 1236889926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird____, it could I guess crash a bad router if the router crashed on random data < 1236889998 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, I have results < 1236890010 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nopaste.com/p/aTrKL9mcmb < 1236890011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it is filtered on other random udp ports too < 1236890018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so doesn't tell me much < 1236890025 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, some dns shit, the configuration, Upnp server and an unknown thang. < 1236890039 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The unknown thang & the dns seem interesting, all else boring. < 1236890040 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, very likely. Well, if you have them tools, "snmpwalk -Os -c public -v 1 ." usually gives everything the device knows. < 1236890050 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux 2.6, though, ey. < 1236890058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, dns isn't unexpected. All routers have that afaik < 1236890066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all consumer ones at least < 1236890067 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, right. < 1236890080 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :S owhat is that jetdirect, do you think? < 1236890083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I don't have the tools < 1236890096 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, printer shit < 1236890107 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... totally locked down, you can get in to it, but you need a serial cable < 1236890109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird____, that is what the port is meant for < 1236890120 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my router supports connecting a printer, so yes < 1236890120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird____, but it probably isn't used for that... < 1236890125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh really, hm < 1236890130 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for networked printing < 1236890135 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can probably craft a SNMP packet with hexedit and send it with netcat's udp mode, but that probably would not be worth the trouble. < 1236890151 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, does SNMP offer any nice backdoors? :P < 1236890152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1236890205 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of backdoors, my WLAN access point firmware had a custom non-linked page, with manufacturer-fixed username and password, which let you execute any shell command with a web-form and see the outputs. < 1236890209 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That wasn't very nice. < 1236890211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1236890216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was using wrong nmap option < 1236890220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this seems interesting < 1236890240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it takes some time < 1236890246 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1236890258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed ouch < 1236890272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PORT STATE SERVICE VERSION < 1236890272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :161/udp open|filtered snmp < 1236890272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAC Address: 00:14:7F:EE:BF:74 (Thomson Telecom Belgium) < 1236890295 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If anyone can gimme tips on cracking open my router's shell, i'd appreciate it < 1236890305 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what nmap's "open|filtered" means. < 1236890314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird____, tool called hammer < 1236890320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or if that fail: sledge < 1236890325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sledgehammer* < 1236890333 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :har har. < 1236890334 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The wlan AP's debug-page was reasonably useful for getting shell-like access without having to upload a custom firmware or anything. < 1236890353 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just would've preferred it to use the configured administration password and not some manufacturer default. < 1236890355 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!! THATS AN IDEA < 1236890359 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can back up your Livebox configuration to a file on your computer. < 1236890365 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_and_ restore it -- JACKPOT?! < 1236890371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236890372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1236890382 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there might be hidden settings in there < 1236890392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, interesting. The telnet access I get is kind of crippled, a menu interface with lots of options < 1236890392 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, it's a binary file < 1236890396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but no real shell access < 1236890407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't think it runs *nix even < 1236890422 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there was no telnet access to the wlan AP at all, even though it was a linuxy thing. < 1236890425 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Modifying cfgsave.dwb files from a Wanadoo Livebox <-- oo < 1236890473 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This ADSL box most probably isn't linux-based either. < 1236890482 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This file is just a tar file that has been 'encrypted' by adding 0x1b to every byte in the file. " < 1236890488 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make this shit up, you can't. < 1236890541 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ran into that sort of "encryption" somewhere too. < 1236890542 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey you can get telnet with just this apparently! hot < 1236890547 0 :ehird____!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood < 1236890564 0 :ehird_______!n=abc@91.105.87.195 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236890566 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently the box doesn't know what day it is either. < 1236890568 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :styx> sys date < 1236890568 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Current date is Tue 2009/01/06 < 1236890569 0 :ehird_______!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's HACK IN TIME < 1236890594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireyFly, heh < 1236890595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236890597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ^ < 1236890602 0 :ehird_______!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me downloadz HACK TOOLZ < 1236890615 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's "ZyNOS version: V3.40(AGE.2)". < 1236890634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_______, cool < 1236890643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that sort of "encryption" sucks < 1236890650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but good for power users < 1236890689 0 :ehird_______!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tar: This does not look like a tar archive < 1236890741 0 :ehird_______!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :opening it, I see shell files, though < 1236890745 0 :ehird_______!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just no header < 1236890758 0 :ehird_______!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :starts- d6a72aaac5a6ce5f9622633d162f908f - < 1236890802 0 :ehird_______!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster, any ideas? < 1236890813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1236890817 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, there's a tcpdump-like packet trace facility in the ADSL box. < 1236890838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that looks like a hash of stdin from md5sum < 1236890849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ echo foo | md5sum < 1236890849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :d3b07384d113edec49eaa6238ad5ff00 - < 1236890851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see? < 1236890855 0 :ehird_______!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, I'll s trip it off < 1236890869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no idea if that will break stuff < 1236890875 0 :ehird_______!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably, I'll need to put one back when I'm done! < 1236890889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway when I save settings from my router using the backup feature I get a plain "user.ini" file < 1236890900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is in fact an ini file < 1236890914 0 :ehird_______!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WORKS NOW < 1236890941 0 :ehird_______!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/private/tjvsp5kpxzg5bgqowkka <- FUCK YEAH < 1236890991 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a funny format for a configuration dump. < 1236891004 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it extract any tar file you upload to it, no matter what the paths are? :p < 1236891014 0 :ehird_______!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1236891028 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, that's friendly. < 1236891030 0 :ehird_______!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As long as you add the md5sum properly, and then add 0x1b to each byte < 1236891060 0 :ehird_______!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :squee, this is aesome < 1236891081 0 :ehird_______!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going to make my livebox serve over http < 1236891084 0 :ehird_______!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the net < 1236891087 0 :ehird_______!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hello from router" :D < 1236891125 0 :ehird_______!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is pretty good, all their configs are plain text and COMMENTED < 1236891130 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_______, it has bluetooth? < 1236891133 0 :ehird_______!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with _useful comments_ < 1236891135 0 :ehird_______!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, yes < 1236891143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1236891149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_______, what is that used for? < 1236891156 0 :ehird_______!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1236891160 0 :ehird_______!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236891163 0 :ehird_______!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't recall < 1236891171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_______, not debug port then? < 1236891187 0 :ehird_______!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg you can configure the dns and everything <3 <3 <3 < 1236891199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_______, in what way? < 1236891214 0 :ehird_______!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my main objective: add an sshd < 1236891219 0 :ehird_______!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which will be T R I V I A L < 1236891227 0 :ehird_______!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just modify the wifi.conf shell script, to add the commands you want to run < 1236891230 0 :ehird_______!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :repackage it < 1236891233 0 :ehird_______!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :import the config < 1236891235 0 :ehird_______!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and VOILA < 1236891302 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236891318 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236891327 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=BeholdMy@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236891338 0 :ehird_______!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster - isn't incompetence lovely? < 1236891373 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might also be some subversive soul thinking "hey, let's give the poor plebs a way of actually using their device". < 1236891380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure is when you can gain advantage of it < 1236891390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, would be nice < 1236891394 0 :ehird_______!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, considering the comments that's quite possible fizzie < 1236891407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what comments? < 1236891418 0 :ehird_______!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the configuration files < 1236891419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, what comments specifically < 1236891431 0 :ehird_______!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# The interface that udhcpd will use < 1236891437 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, if a device runs Linux, people are probably going to hack around with it even if it means soldering in custom connectors for a serial port or stuff. < 1236891438 0 :ehird_______!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's from udhcpd though < 1236891444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird_______, anything like "fuck the management, lets make this encryption silly"? < 1236891450 0 :ehird_______!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1236891461 0 :ehird_______!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is JSUT configuration files, I will need ssh to explore the whole fs < 1236891473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm... < 1236891488 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe only the most hardcorey people would apply a soldering iron on a rented device, but anyway. < 1236891572 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One good way of finding stuff out is to locate the "open-source-compliace" website of the device manufacturer; I think most companies that do linux-based routery things have some sort of "here's a random pile of sources" distribution, which you certainly can't use to build a working firmware out of (since no-one bothers to support that) but which can be very informative of how the system works. < 1236891623 0 :ehird_______!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://jean.thecoderblogs.com/2008/12/05/got-root/ <- somoeone's done this already, that's a :( and a :) < 1236891624 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ZyXEL has a ftp://opensource.zyxel.com/ ftp-site with really random content, and Linksys also at least used to have outdated source code distributions hidden somewhere in the support sites. < 1236891786 0 :ehird_______!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will now do http://jean.thecoderblogs.com/2008/12/05/got-root/, so I amy hack further < 1236891983 0 :ehird_______!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, you can only write to /etc apparently < 1236891990 0 :ehird_______!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'll make /etc/x/ for stuff I put < 1236892052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm it seems openwrt should work on my router < 1236892056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to some googling < 1236892068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not going to try, I don't want to mess up < 1236892179 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenWRT should sort-of almost-work on my wlan AP (a Linksys WAP54G), except that the AP-only version I have only has 2 megs of flash instead of the normal 8 megs in the good old WRT54G, so there's not much space for stuff. < 1236892228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah probably same < 1236892236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this router is about half a year old < 1236892312 0 :ehird_______!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, preparing to get myself an sshd onto thine router < 1236892389 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236892407 0 :ehird_______!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gonna try it now, brb < 1236892408 0 :ehird_______!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"aaa" < 1236892411 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=arvid@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236892413 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thou shalt not ssh onto thine router, for that is an abomination. < 1236892497 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is some set of numbers, strictly greater than the rational numbers and strictly less than the real numbers, which can be mapped reversibly but not 1-1 to integers by means of writing a program to generate the number. With these generator programs, you can perform addition, multiplication, etc, but cannot perform comparisons, as two numbers may be equal even if their generator representation is not, and I don't plan to solve the halting problem. I < 1236892497 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s there any problem with this observation, and is it even vaguely useful? < 1236892535 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, I suppose you can perform comparisons just as reliably as you can perform any other operation, it only becomes a problem when you try to display the result in non-generator form. < 1236892559 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(With everything else you can get a partial early result, but with that you'd have to wait infinite time for any result) < 1236892602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My bouncer works now < 1236892604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1236892606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HERE GOOOOOOOOES < 1236892621 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soon there will come smoke out of your router. < 1236892625 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless we can prove that, for some particular translation to generators, all generators for equal values will eventually resolve to identical code sequences, which might actually be the case ... < 1236892634 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Doesn't seem likely though) < 1236892704 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-10-189.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236892743 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh come on, this is #esoteric , somebody has to be interested in my math oddity :P < 1236892762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fucked it up < 1236892763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1236892777 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: they're called computable numbers < 1236892778 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is your math oddity the same thing as "computable numbers"? < 1236892785 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah. < 1236892837 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is this math oddity < 1236892865 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The main thing I'm trying to point out is that I recall somewhere it being claimed that there are strictly more real numbers than integers, but in fact there's a set in between rationals and reals that has the same cardinality as integers. < 1236892867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ssh: connect to host configuration.adsl port 22: Connection refused < 1236892891 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR : There's a shitload, actually < 1236892932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ssh: connect to host 192.168.1.1 port 22: Connection refused < 1236892934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whyyyyyyy < 1236892949 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Do you mean "strictly more rationals than integers" in that comment? I mean, I don't see who'd object to "strictly more real numbers than integers". < 1236892951 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N->Z->Q-> constructible numbers -> Algebraic numbers -> computable numbers -> definable numbers < 1236892961 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All of them are aleph null < 1236892968 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: there're many sets containing the rationals that have the same cardinality as integers do. < 1236892988 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, all useful numbers have that cardinality < 1236892988 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame my math teacher for making that unclear X-D < 1236892997 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: for example, the algebraic closure of 1 and sqrt(2) < 1236893001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH WAIT < 1236893006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAYBE I HAS FIX < 1236893014 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236893032 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=BeholdMy@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236893072 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, not algebraic closure < 1236893081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmm < 1236893083 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just the field defined by < 1236893224 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The field define by one and sqrt2? < 1236893228 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a pretty small field < 1236893239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? < 1236893243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236893252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just isn't responding to ssh < 1236893259 0 :kerlo_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :orelo < 1236893301 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: it's not that small < 1236893338 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, cardinality of two :D < 1236893365 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1-1=0 < 1236893368 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1236893386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION unhides a downloaded one to see if changes took effec < 1236893386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1236893414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they did not. < 1236893454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH < 1236893507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1236893508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trying again < 1236893562 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually that "add 0x1b" "encryption" is not the most canonical "silly encryption"; a xor operation would've been more usual than addition. < 1236893574 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, so this is dumb, I was thinking about that and I came to the conclusion that any infinite set that be defined by induction has the same cardinality as reals. Then I realized that that's completely fucking obvious. < 1236893612 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, glibc has that memfrob(s, n); function and everything. < 1236894209 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236894221 0 :lament!n=lament@S010600110999ad06.vc.shawcable.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236894246 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server" < 1236894616 0 :orelo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: excluding countable ones, I presume. < 1236894683 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ERM, same cardinality as /integers/ I meant. < 1236894699 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can create the set by induction, it's countable. < 1236894713 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1236894725 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why any useful number is in such a set < 1236894735 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because they can't be defined otherwise < 1236894749 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Useful" :P < 1236894826 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Related to usefulness of numbers, a well-known quote: "The real numbers are the dependable breadwinner of the family, the complete ordered field we all rely on. The complex numbers are a slightly flashier but still respectable younger brother: not ordered, but algebraically complete. The quaternions, being noncommutative, are the eccentric cousin who is shunned at important family gatherings. But the octonions are the crazy old uncle nobody lets out of the atti < 1236894872 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1236894988 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish there was a sound way to define the theory that any set larger than the computable numbers (that is, any set S for which the computable numbers are a strict subset of S) is also contrived :P < 1236895059 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Erm, larger but still with the same cardinality as integers that is) < 1236895086 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(That makes no sense! :P ) < 1236895142 0 :orelo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, so a countable set that includes all computable numbers, plus something else. < 1236895152 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but is not contrived X-P < 1236895153 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't be hatin' Chaitin's constant dude < 1236895163 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CONTRIVED < 1236895166 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236895186 0 :orelo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The set of all 1-computable numbers, defining "1-computable" as meaning a particular thing. < 1236895194 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. (1) contrived -- (showing effects of planning or manipulation; "a novel with a contrived ending") < 1236895212 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Touché sir :P < 1236895220 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Touch on your weiner < 1236895237 0 :orelo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Namely, computable on a 1-computer, defining "1-computer" as meaning a particular thing. < 1236895249 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've got one: Computable with a halting oracle. < 1236895265 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That includes Chaitin's number. < 1236895276 0 :orelo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An n-computer is a Turing machine with a halting oracle for every m-computer where m is an ordinal number less than n. < 1236895284 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(By "contrived" I really meant to imply that you don't just go "That set plus Chaitin's constant") < 1236895298 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perfect! < 1236895307 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now where did I leave that halting oracle ... < 1236895316 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it would suck to have a job as a halting oracle. All day people would be asking about "does this halt" and "does that halt" and on and on and on. < 1236895318 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is Chaitin's constant less contrived than definable numbers? < 1236895327 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't believe the job advertisement's "flexible hours" stuff. < 1236895346 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It means they will bend them out of shape < 1236895349 0 :orelo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: when GregorR said "don't", he meant "do". < 1236895383 0 :orelo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except "don't" is also a valid way of saying that, because either English is weird or GregorR is weird. < 1236895390 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1236895409 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was correct colloquial English, and is conveniently interpretable to mean either of two opposite things correctly :P < 1236895436 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But there ain't no problem with that! < 1236895459 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, why are you so very melon < 1236895461 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard it said that "I could care less" and "I couldn't care less" mean the same thing. < 1236895496 0 :orelo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed. < 1236895502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO-O-O < 1236895505 0 :orelo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's why people shouldn't say "I could care less". < 1236895507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my router isn't doing the right thing < 1236895546 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Maybe you should watch the "warriors of the net" video to more appreciate the tough job your router has. < 1236895550 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whenever somebody says "I could care less", I put a broadsword through their head. < 1236895561 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Unless they actually could care less) < 1236895570 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"How does a router look like? What color does a IP packet have? How does a IP packet travel through firewall. All the answers and many more can be found in the Warriors of the net move [sic]." < 1236895572 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In which case that's just a weird statement) < 1236895584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, by all accounts, it should have started the sshd. < 1236895589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it _has_. But I can't get to it. < 1236895601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o h < 1236895609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that < 1236895617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries < 1236895945 0 :orelo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION presses some buttons on his calculator < 1236895949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck ass, I think I know the problem. < 1236895957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, no < 1236895960 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1236895965 0 :orelo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It says "zebra". < 1236895974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. < 1236895975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, < 1236895981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't downloading the file. < 1236895984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why, I have no fucking idea. < 1236895988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(From my machine) < 1236895991 0 :orelo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now it says "cebra". < 1236896028 0 :orelo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now it says "wolf", and now it says "lobo", and now it says "sheep, ewe", and now it says "oveja". < 1236896047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: any ideas? It just isn't running the code < 1236896204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#notify_file #default: (no script) < 1236896204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#notify_file /bin/dumpleases # <--- usefull for debugging < 1236896208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha! A way to run a program. < 1236896345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1236896350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION was afk < 1236896378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway I now have root on my router: http://deckardt.nl/blog/2008/06/28/speedtouch-fun-the-root-hack/ < 1236896381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very useful < 1236896401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I have a rather new firmware < 1236896454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :orelo, what sayz zebra? < 1236896495 0 :Corun!n=Corun@93-97-219-19.zone5.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1236896821 0 :atrapado!n=nnn@cm19117.red91-117.mundo-r.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1236897126 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This ZyNOS packet-trace looks rather spiffy: http://www.tcgweb.com/netgear/trace-snif.html < 1236897129 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No filters, though. < 1236897730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, I give up < 1236897843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hpaste.org/fastcgi/hpaste.fcgi/view?id=2345 < 1236897845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sierpinski v3. < 1236897850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now outputs a PNG. < 1236897854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: try it! < 1236897858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghc --make -O2 sierpinski-gd.hs < 1236897858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1236897865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./sierpinski-gd sierpinski.png < 1236897869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :open sierpinski.png and voil < 1236897870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1236897875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't have ghc, I can give you an OS X binary < 1236898073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOLY CRAP < 1236898075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: < 1236898079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you return x&y < 1236898082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of just checking it for 0 < 1236898085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you get an awesome infinite background pattern < 1236898089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shaded blue < 1236898103 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pic or it didn't happen < 1236898107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SURE THANG BRO < 1236898122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uploading < 1236898153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: http://imgur.com/5ZN9A.png < 1236898154 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could not find module `Graphics.GD' < 1236898155 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::< < 1236898159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just interpreting x&y as an rgb colour < 1236898161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireyFly: "cabal install gd" < 1236898178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: pretty cool, huh? < 1236898200 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neat < 1236898222 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Checkerboard sierpinski ;o < 1236898224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was expecting something less, well, uniform < 1236898229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireyFly: exactly < 1236898234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hereby dub & the sierpinski operator < 1236898429 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :My other car is a cdr | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D | s$B\KGP(Bɹ $BYQ(Bo$BHF(Bun < 1236898515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireyFly: got it working? < 1236898547 0 :orelo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, it is awesome. < 1236898562 0 :orelo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: my calculator. < 1236898564 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope < 1236898566 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236898590 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm < 1236898631 0 :orelo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION attempts to figure out that image < 1236898665 0 :orelo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's clear in some places that one pair of opposite squares is brighter than the other. < 1236898685 0 :orelo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the pattern remains as you zoom in. < 1236898697 0 :orelo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The question is how much brighter. < 1236898758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireyFly: do you have cabal? < 1236898759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, just do: < 1236898763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ cabal install gd < 1236898765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and all will go smoothly < 1236898767 0 :orelo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and within each pair, the upper-right square is brighter than the lower-left. I think both are brighter than the upper-left and lower-right, which are equally bright. < 1236898802 0 :orelo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that due to a modulo, though, the four big squares of the entire image are identical except for the green component. < 1236898814 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I havn't really used haskell that much, but I appearently have the libhugs-cabal package installed < 1236898819 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But no command "cabal" < 1236898821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're identical full stop < 1236898822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe < 1236898823 0 :orelo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fact that the image is 512x512 is evidence for this hypothesis. < 1236898827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireyFly: Oh, hugs? < 1236898828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't use hugs. < 1236898832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uninstall hugs and install ghc. < 1236898834 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well I do have ghc installed to < 1236898836 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too* < 1236898837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1236898843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Install libghc6-cabal, or whatever it's installed. < 1236898849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then find "cabal-install" package and install that too. < 1236898852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then it should work. < 1236898853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah wait. < 1236898855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghc comes with cabal < 1236898855 0 :orelo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION successfully runs hugs < 1236898857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so just the cabal install one < 1236898895 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Either 'buntu packages sucks, or I do < 1236898899 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's the latter < 1236898908 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh < 1236898912 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :repos, that is* < 1236898918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1236898919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will ask #haskell < 1236898970 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks quite a lot like http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sierpinski_square.jpg except that one has used more coloursies. < 1236898988 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And done with an IFS, not just bitwise and. :p < 1236899008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. of course. < 1236899011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's sierpinski without the hole. < 1236899019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, an IFS is way slower than a bitwise and :P < 1236899139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm,. < 1236899146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I can antialias that there sierpinski. < 1236899343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: ping < 1236899513 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1236899538 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-129-204.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236899562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interrobang with ~: ‽̃ < 1236899570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgur.com/LIS7.jpg < 1236899656 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imgur sounds like Sumerian < 1236899662 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IM GUR < 1236899675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236899747 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Peace and Protection 4.22.2" < 1236899750 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On this font and size, the interrobang with ~ just renders like an interrobang except the top part is even messier. < 1236899752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't think GD would be so simple I could do that in 36 lines < 1236899756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ditto < 1236899760 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236899770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hereby deem this channel the Haskell+GD Appreciation Club. < 1236899880 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zem.fi/~fis/tilderrobang.png < 1236900019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1236900024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if using | instead of & gives a fractal < 1236900037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1236900040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It gives whiteness. < 1236900057 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1236900065 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least for the == 0 case, it would. I guess otherwise too. < 1236900094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1236900100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe xor. < 1236900107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xoractal. < 1236900117 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they have a combining ? so you can display "interrofoo" \forall foo \in Unicode? I don't think they have. A shame. < 1236900132 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+033C sounds like a road sign: COMBINING SEAGULL BELOW < 1236900146 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"..." < 1236900166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a combining seagull do < 1236900202 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a vaguely McDonalds-y logo down there you can combine with. < 1236900219 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like a flattened m, maybe. < 1236900221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No I mean like < 1236900222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IRL < 1236900224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the sign is saying < 1236900227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COMBINING SEAGULL BELOW < 1236900232 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data structure problem < 1236900234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so presumably we're on a road high in the air < 1236900239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what does a combining seagull do < 1236900245 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, well. I don't know, but I think it involves bird excrement. I don't want to think about the details. < 1236900275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it perhaps find other combining seagulls and permanently attach them to itself, thus creating a fractal seagull? < 1236900284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CONCLUSION: Sierpinski is every-fucking-where. < 1236900299 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given a mapping of strings -> value, i need to return all the values who's keys contain a substring < 1236900314 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in less than linear time obviously) < 1236900315 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given that they have the combining anticlockwise ring overlay, the combining right arrowhead and down arrowhead below, the combining rightwards harpoon with barb downwards, and even the combining acute-grave-acute and the combining grave-acute-grave, I don't think a combining question mark would be too much to ask. < 1236900426 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Contain a substring" is often suffix tree work, if you don't mind the space overhead. < 1236900465 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1236900490 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have a "generalized suffix tree", it "can be built in Θ(n) time and space, and can be used to find all z occurrences of a string P of length m in O(m + z) time, which is asymptotically optimal". < 1236900510 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For a set of strings of total length n, that is. < 1236900606 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have many strings though < 1236900643 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes; that's what the "generalized" part there is. You can build a single tree for a set of strings, and find all matches (in any of the strings) for a given substring. < 1236900656 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236900659 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess in your case you could directly stick references to values in there. < 1236900672 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1236900679 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What're m and z < 1236900692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zeroes xs = sum [ 1 | 0 <- xs ] < 1236900693 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the heck is the topic < 1236900700 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It says right there. z occurrences and input string length m. < 1236900710 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right < 1236900719 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, way to skip the relevant half of the sentence < 1236900728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :(eq? (cdr my-cars) 'cdr) | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D < 1236900734 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: That's just like you, you're just reading the channel for the formulas. < 1236900860 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i take that to mean you don't know what it meant < 1236900873 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and hi < 1236901029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So. < 1236901031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi oerjan. < 1236901034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell is neat. < 1236901064 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unwords . repeat $ "yes" < 1236901083 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fix ("yes "++) < 1236901135 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cycle "yes " < 1236901153 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236901156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:39 ehird: > "The answer is: " ++ fix ("Yes! " ++) ++ "Haskell can do that." < 1236901156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:39 lambdabot: "The answer is: Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes! Yes!... < 1236901157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:39 ehird: ...virginia < 1236901178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("Maybe, Virginia.") < 1236901187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :("Just True, Virginia.") < 1236901190 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm confused < 1236901202 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: arfnoble grifgraff? < 1236901269 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[1..]>>"yes " < 1236901275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ooh! < 1236901289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's beautiful < 1236901333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: but longer than cycle"yes " < 1236901338 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas < 1236901369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello oerjan < 1236901375 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hej hej < 1236901382 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :execWriter . forever . tell $ "yes " < 1236901391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, irreguljär webserie < 1236901393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs < 1236901405 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too short, already read < 1236901417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: system "yes 'yes '" < 1236901422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yeah I was busy hacking my modem/router < 1236901424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, that adds newlines < 1236901426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't see you join < 1236901427 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Bad command or file not found < 1236901434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I had some success btw, but not much < 1236901437 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: And it's IO :-P < 1236901437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for my router < 1236901452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: unsafeCoerce (system "deltree /y C:\*.*") :: String < 1236901455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, wait < 1236901456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it seems you need JTAG to do anything useful with it < 1236901462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: unsafeCoerce (unsafePerformIO (system "deltree /y C:\*.*")) :: String < 1236901473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +[[,----------]>+++++++++[<+++++++>-]<.[-]++++++++++.] < 1236901476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1236901478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^bf +[[,----------]>+++++++++[<+++++++>-]<.[-]++++++++++.]!hello world < 1236901480 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...out of time! < 1236901485 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ...out of time! < 1236901490 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: main = return () -- sorry, can't touch this < 1236901513 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: that sounds a bit - restrictive < 1236901526 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1236901539 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[,----------] seems like it's looking for newlines. < 1236901544 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :import Prelude hiding (return) < 1236901548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's from ed.bf < 1236901554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe it is a complete impl of ed < 1236901557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what are you doing? < 1236901580 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not doing anything < 1236901588 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :return _ = system "rm -rf ." < 1236901595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1236901604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is trying to delete their system? < 1236901605 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm probably needs another import for system < 1236901612 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Deewiant < 1236901616 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why < 1236901640 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird was deleting a hypothetical Windows / DOS system in Haskell < 1236901652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh that would be hard. It would be a side effect < 1236901658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of windows) < 1236901676 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats AnMaster -----### < 1236901685 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :side effects are not hard in haskell! < 1236901707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, you missed the joke < 1236901708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1236901718 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no, it cannot be! < 1236901726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, you missed his joke. < 1236901730 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION weeps frantically < 1236901733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no I just missed ~ < 1236901736 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woe is me! < 1236901740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the nth time around < 1236901741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :poop is me! < 1236901747 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pope? < 1236901754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well same thing < 1236901784 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION will now rent his swatter to any practicing catholics nearby < 1236901785 0 :atrapado!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Abandonando" < 1236902382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pope is made of poop. < 1236902382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that ed just outputs ? every newline < 1236902382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:50 wli: I have a tough time writing ed in Haskell. I have to believe he used some kind of codegen from another language. < 1236902382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CHECKING FOR "10" AND OUTPUTTING A CHARACTER IS REALLY HARD < 1236902382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, why? < 1236902382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :religion is for insulting < 1236902382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:55 AnMaster: religion is for insulting <-- you're an idiot. < 1236902382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I forgot ~. sorry < 1236902382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should just tag ~ on to my every line < 1236902382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that might be a good idea in fact < 1236902382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1236902382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ < 1236902382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, actually ~ is too boolean. Either serious or sarcasm < 1236902382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we need a marker for said with "wink of eye" < 1236902382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1236902382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would suggest ¤ < 1236902382 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest ";-)" < 1236902382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, meh. So outdated... ¤ < 1236902382 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :¤ already has a meaning < 1236902382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so does ~ < 1236902382 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't think I've got it on my keyboard layout < 1236902382 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, but not ";-)" < 1236902382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, Finnish? < 1236902382 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, ~ = < 1236902382 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1236902382 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather, it has that meaning < 1236902382 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, ~ ? < 1236902382 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: colemak < 1236902382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, iirc Swedish and Finish have the same? < 1236902382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236902382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ^ < 1236902382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, "colemak"? < 1236902382 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You recall correctly, but as I said I use colemak < 1236902382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth is that < 1236902382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :colemak.com < 1236902382 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what? < 1236902382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway ¤ is Shift-4 here < 1236902382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, misbraintab < 1236902382 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is no one making sense < 1236902382 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I know, that's what it says on my 4 key as well :-P < 1236902382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, why not dvorak btw? < 1236902460 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Colemak is supposedly more optimal < 1236902492 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't be polemic, just use colemak < 1236902530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a colemak for Swedish? < 1236902540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I type a lot in Swedish so I need åäö < 1236902541 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is just one colemak < 1236902543 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :äåö < 1236902547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, there is svorak < 1236902553 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :äåãøúüöáñéíóæœ < 1236902564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, altgr isn't valid :P < 1236902565 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, I know. < 1236902578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i use qwerty < 1236902581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*crickets chirp* < 1236902582 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm fine with altgr; you can always configure it yourself if you want < 1236902672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://colemak.com/FAQ#What.27s_wrong_with_the_Dvorak_layout.3F "# Even though the design principles are sound, the implementation isn't optimal because it was designed without the aid of computers. " <-- uh what? < 1236902682 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qwerty, the favorite layout of crickets < 1236902692 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Because" doesn't make much sense there :-P < 1236902695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I basically have a muscle memory of qwerty :( < 1236902702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, same here < 1236902716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unlearning and learning something else would take up to a year, probably < 1236902718 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can switch to qwerty within minutes < 1236902718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I grew up with qwerty after all. Hard to unlearn it now < 1236902723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, probably < 1236902724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I give up after a day or two because I type so much < 1236902727 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that makes sense < 1236902730 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or rather, within seconds, but I'm back in comfort within minutes < 1236902731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes I type lots too < 1236902736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, which line? < 1236902744 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Took me about a month or two to get fully comfortable with colemak < 1236902749 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if you want to design an optimal layout, you would need statistical analysis of the text you type < 1236902760 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to do that without a computer < 1236902762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, ok, they could have said that. < 1236902765 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and without knowing what kind of text you type) < 1236902768 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Hard but that doesn't imply that it's suboptimal < 1236902792 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I maintain that "suboptimal because no computers were used" doesn't hold < 1236902804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, because any random designer could do a nifty layout in photoshop, using a computer(!), and it probably wouldn't be any good < 1236902833 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't write that FAQ, don't complain to me < 1236902841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so saying something about computer aided statistical analysis would have been better < 1236902843 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dvorak is good enough for me but it's clearly not optimal < 1236902878 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eg "ls" is clearly bad, "i" and "u" should probably be switched... < 1236902894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1236902913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qwerty is great because it's _always_ suboptimal < 1236902916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, you could do that in some file in /usr/share/keymaps/ iirc < 1236902922 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's amusing is that http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blickensderfer_typewriter had the same letters as Colemak on the home row, back in 1893 < 1236902925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe somewhere else for X < 1236902927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1236902932 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Different order though < 1236902934 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm fine with Dvorak. < 1236902954 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I think that also goes a bit against Colemak's point about computer-aided statistical analysis < 1236902977 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: huh? < 1236902977 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, English has been the same for a long time, you don't need a computer to tell you that 'e' is the most common vowel and so on < 1236902983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, how emacs compatible is colmak? < 1236902990 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Don't know, don't care. < 1236902994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you use vi? < 1236902997 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: the relative frequency of letters is known. < 1236903003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then how vi(m) compatible is it? < 1236903004 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Yep. < 1236903011 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: that's not enough to design an optimal layout. < 1236903014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hjkl are moved for example < 1236903022 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Not very, I remap the basic movement keys < 1236903034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, mhm < 1236903035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish there was something like vi that unsucked < 1236903047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it's called µeamcs < 1236903050 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: True, but I just think they're stating it a bit too strongly < 1236903052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :µemacs* < 1236903054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not like vi AnMaster < 1236903062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well depends on what you define "like" as < 1236903065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is an editor < 1236903066 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't remap much though, I like the mnemonics < 1236903071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not a potato < 1236903078 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a "colemak.vim" which changes a crapload of stuff < 1236903083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I argue vim is more like emacs than vim is like a potato~ < 1236903091 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's more a customization of the whole of vim than just a remapping of the keys < 1236903094 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I don't use ti < 1236903095 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ti/it/ < 1236903096 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: please complain to them, not to me. < 1236903112 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: I wasn't complaining to you or to anybody, I just made a statement < 1236903148 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the heck _is_ this ~ thing < 1236903160 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't remember whose idea it was < 1236903171 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A sarcasm indicator, basically < 1236903182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, is there a standard threading api lower level than pthreads? < 1236903186 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a wonderful idea~ < 1236903223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it was ehird's idea < 1236903224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1236903235 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you're so smart~ < 1236903236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was t? < 1236903237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*it < 1236903253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, either that or you read it somewhere and mentioned it in this channel < 1236903256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure < 1236903269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could be wrong, it was some time ago after all < 1236903281 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you wrong? never~ < 1236903292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, memory isn't as good as when you were young < 1236903297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should know how it is ;P < 1236903319 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, i don't remember how good my memory was when i was young~ < 1236903330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah~~ < 1236903395 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: clone(2) < 1236903405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no manual entry for clone < 1236903405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236903422 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yeah, if you want to be portable, no :-P < 1236903427 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beats me about OSX < 1236903446 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just looked at the source of glibc and that's what it uses < 1236903464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X would be whatever BSD uses < 1236903465 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well you could just copy some other manpage to it < 1236903471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :groan < 1236903494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, :D < 1236903511 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and here i thought that one was too subtle... < 1236903516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway no standard one lower than pthreads no < 1236903525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is "implementation defined" < 1236903527 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: __clone? < 1236903535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pthreads is awful though < 1236903538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, iirc clone() is linux specific < 1236903544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a linux system call... < 1236903562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, fork() shm_* < 1236903573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fork isn't threas < 1236903573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ds < 1236903590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well depends. On linux fork() is clone() and phtreads is clone() < 1236903594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just different parameters < 1236903621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It specifically needs to be a thread because i'm doing it for a gc < 1236903628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the gc has to fuck with the heap < 1236903631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well linux also has a system call fork(), for compatibility with older code < 1236903639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nowdays clone() is used < 1236903648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the syscall fork() maps to the same code < 1236903701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: egobfc2m doesn't work on non-linux :< < 1236903743 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Just look at your sys/syscall.h and see what's there :-P < 1236903753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I need portable :P < 1236903763 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Then why ask for lowest level? :-P < 1236903769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say lowest < 1236903771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said lower than pthreads < 1236903783 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why go lower instead of higher, in general < 1236903788 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're aiming for portability < 1236903788 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pthreads sucks :D < 1236903791 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1236903792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, pthreads is the lowest portable < 1236903793 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pthreads is about as low as you portably get, is my guess. < 1236903796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn < 1236903798 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Then use a higher level library? < 1236903801 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which doesn't suck < 1236903804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah. < 1236903810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1236903832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nick confusion? You going low level and me and others suggesting higher level? < 1236903834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HUH! < 1236903851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something isn't right here < 1236903868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Greenity. < 1236903881 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :purplity < 1236903884 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have to admit I've rarely seen people complain pthreads isn't low-level enough. < 1236903918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed. I have seen people saying it is too low level though < 1236903922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I agree < 1236903925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer higher level < 1236904020 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nighty-night, anyway. < 1236904143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCHRODINGER'S SCHRODINGER < 1236904279 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1236904292 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yo schrodinger? < 1236904359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1236904366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I herd u liek quantum physicists < 1236904408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say how do you tell vim not to give you the splash on startup < 1236904408 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you do, I am single < 1236904429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because you know what < 1236904431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK UGANDA < 1236904434 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, can write(2) to stdout/stderr be buffered, so that you need to fsync it? < 1236904443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: for >file, maybe? < 1236904448 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you need a secret code that you only get if you actually donate~ < 1236904468 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: What about console? < 1236904475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: dunno < 1236904481 0 :orelo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yo dog, I heard you like Schrodinger's boxes, so I may have put a Schrodinger's box inside a Schrodinger's box so you can be uncertain of whether you're uncertain or not. < 1236904485 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it could be, in theory < 1236904491 0 :orelo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not the kind of guy who says "dawg", you see. < 1236904519 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also see that you don't say "Schrödinger" < 1236904531 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What did umlauts ever do to you? < 1236904552 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an umlaut killed my granduncle! < 1236904560 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, dear! < 1236904630 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :orelo: orely? < 1236904657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ö®ëll¥¿ < 1236904683 0 :orelo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Schrödinger. < 1236904794 0 :orelo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION watches irssi's status line scroll up into backscroll. < 1236904897 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds borken < 1236904920 0 :orelo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is relatively borken, yes. < 1236904977 0 :orelo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll take a screenshot in a while. < 1236905247 0 :orelo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://i39.tinypic.com/20r2ob8.png < 1236905293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1236905304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Vim cannot address the space one after a lines last character (before the newline). < 1236905307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is this? Deewiant? < 1236905350 0 :orelo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you're not in insert mode? < 1236905385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Correct. < 1236905386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And? < 1236905391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why can I not address that position? < 1236905409 0 :orelo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because you don't want to. < 1236905444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having my thin-line-style cursor end at the seemingly-arbitrary second-last character is jarring. < 1236905475 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :orelo: what happens if you press ^L ? < 1236905492 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm i guess it's a bit late now < 1236905625 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: hm i have a thick cursor when not in insert mode, i suppose that fits vim better < 1236905639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, can you do a multiline string in a vimrc? < 1236905707 0 :orelo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries < 1236905740 0 :orelo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, it fixes it. < 1236905770 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so just a display bug < 1236905778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::\ < 1236905798 0 :orelo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of a Unicode bug. < 1236905814 0 :orelo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think my terminal settings are lying when they say UTF-8. < 1236905839 0 :orelo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ä < 1236905882 0 :orelo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That character is supposed to be a capital A with an umlaut or diaeresis; instead, when I type it, it appears to produce a line break and move right. < 1236905888 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i note there were _two_ unicode lines before that bug in the screenshot < 1236905900 0 :orelo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the chat window, it displays as inverse D. < 1236905905 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's an A with umlaut here < 1236905957 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh only one of the lines were yours < 1236905969 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's when you are typing < 1236906036 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: how do you get a thin-line cursor in vim? < 1236906043 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more importantly, why would you want one < 1236906060 0 :orelo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I conclude that irssi is not sending UTF-8 to my terminal. < 1236906064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :set guicursor=n-v-c:block-Cursor/lCursor,ve:ver1-Cursor,o:hor25-Cursor,i-ci:ver1-Cursor/lCursor,r-cr:hor1-Cursor/lCursor,sm:ver1-Cursor < 1236906076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that will give you block cursor on normal mode, thin cursor on everything else but r and c < 1236906091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to make the cursor gray < 1236906093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it stands out less < 1236906107 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol, gui < 1236906140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you use gvim last I checked < 1236906154 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I don't < 1236906163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You certainly tried it. < 1236906180 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's correct, I opened gvim once to try it. :D < 1236906190 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I just opened it again to see what you're talking about. < 1236906223 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have a line ending with a space? < 1236906226 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can't address it? < 1236906242 0 :orelo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be precise, irssi is not sending UTF-8 to screen or screen is not sending UTF-8 to sshd or sshd is not sending UTF-8 to ssh or ssh is not sending UTF-8 to my terminal. < 1236906282 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you just want to put the block after the last character < 1236906291 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1236906350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it was a vertical line < 1236906355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it looked stupid otherwise < 1236906358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but notw it's not < 1236906367 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1236906392 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm still deciding whether or not I like vim putting you at a character instead of between characters < 1236906419 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for ^ and $, it's just a waste of time to remember whether to use i or a < 1236906425 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for searches, it makes sense... < 1236906458 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^i = I, $a = A < 1236906470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, the ironman colour scheme is nice < 1236906509 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: nice, I'll remember that < 1236906510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION maps Ctrl-A to I and Ctrl-E to A < 1236906514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :emacs addiction. < 1236906528 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ctrl-a > ^ < 1236906530 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that requires a big reach < 1236906535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for me < 1236906537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236906537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1236906539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1236906545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this one works in insert mode though too < 1236906546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236906574 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, what < 1236906595 0 :orelo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION concludes that irssi is sending UTF-8 to screen < 1236906600 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naah, because in normal mode you get a beep < 1236906620 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :solution: nnoremap < 1236906622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: < 1236906623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nmap ^ < 1236906624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imap I < 1236906626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nmap $ < 1236906627 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that < 1236906628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imap A < 1236906638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works exactly how you expect in both modes < 1236906647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not in visual mode, though < 1236906651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who gives a shit about visual mode < 1236906666 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vmap < 1236906682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1236906686 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes visual mode < 1236906688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except < 1236906689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't do < 1236906694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo < 1236906697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because that trashes your selection < 1236906702 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: vmap ^ < 1236906706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236906813 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how to remember 'vaB' < 1236906821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmmmm < 1236906826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my hi Cursor things are being ignored :( < 1236906873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1236906921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :colorscheme ironman < 1236906921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Cursor guifg=#000000 guibg=#CCCCCC < 1236906923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi lCursor guifg=#000000 guibg=#CCCCCC < 1236906925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi CursorIM guifg=#000000 guibg=#CCCCCC < 1236906927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lovely < 1236906974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1236906978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I restart, and it forgets < 1236907015 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too bad there isn't a way to select the {}-delimited block _and whatever comes before it_ < 1236907024 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: shit gets reset when you do shit < 1236907026 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1236907031 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it would require knowledge of C < 1236907031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but < 1236907033 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can emacs do that? < 1236907035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::soucre ~/.vimrc < 1236907036 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohwaityouaren'there < 1236907037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FIXES IT < 1236907038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*source < 1236907044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: umm, no, it wouldn't require that < 1236907046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :create a function < 1236907049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then map a key to call it < 1236907050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :voila < 1236907058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :full vimscript at your fingertips (NOTE: vimscript is shit) < 1236907072 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant it would require knowing that the file is C < 1236907082 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, according to ais523, is bad < 1236907089 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /emacsy < 1236907091 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why < 1236907094 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::u < 1236907095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236907102 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm gonig to have to learn vim scripting though < 1236907105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now comex < 1236907110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how come source .vimrc fixes this < 1236907111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1236907112 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so far I've just been copying from the tips wiki < 1236907120 0 :orelo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :echo -e \\0347\\0214\\0253 does precisely what it ought to. < 1236907128 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: do it after syntax on < 1236907131 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're not already < 1236907136 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, < 1236907138 0 :kerlo!n=ihope@normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1236907139 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cursor isn't syntax < 1236907141 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION shuts up < 1236907144 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is default, for one :p < 1236907153 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: < 1236907156 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :move it to the end of vimrc < 1236907162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1236907166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works after syntax on < 1236907167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :figure, go < 1236907255 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1236907320 0 :orelo!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kerlo < 1236907346 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've deduced, I suppose, that screen is messing everything up. < 1236907447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey comex, whats the thing for :e-but-in-a-new-tab < 1236907819 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: :split < 1236907966 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1236908166 0 :Robdgreat!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1236908170 0 :Robdgreat!i=rob@unaffiliated/robdgreat JOIN :#esoteric < 1236908245 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236908266 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1236909273 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sgeo[Worms] < 1236909786 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-1-125.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236910761 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236912583 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trees of bloom filters! < 1236912640 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forests in bloom! < 1236912759 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the most efficient way of representing 3 bit strings, A, (A|B), and B? < 1236912821 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely you can do better than 3n < 1236912948 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um one is the or of the others? < 1236912964 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1236912976 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm what is (A|B) < 1236913000 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: ^ < 1236913009 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bitwise or < 1236913014 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236913026 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well just leave it out, duh < 1236913028 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2n < 1236913043 0 :kwertii!n=kwertii@c-71-202-121-102.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236913068 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...except you're not allowed to do that < 1236913088 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then it's a question of what you mean by "representation" < 1236913107 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since that is the precise shortest way, i think < 1236913195 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about sending A,B, and one of the flag pairs 10, 11 or 01? < 1236913231 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2n+2, and each of them can be sent "separately" < 1236913252 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course that is long for everything _other_ than (A|B) < 1236913255 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's say this: you need to be able to compute A|B by looking at no more than n bits < 1236913264 0 :Corun!n=Corun@93-97-219-19.zone5.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1236913266 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236913341 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well then, if the same is true for A and B, and those are independent, then you must have n bits that represent A and n disjoint bits that represent B < 1236913396 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously you need to add _something_ to be able to compute (A|B) from n bits < 1236913414 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1236913462 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although theoretically the representations of A and B could be recodings, no need to store the actual same bits < 1236913485 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A and B are independent < 1236913525 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just seems like it should be possible to do better than 3n because A|B is biased towards 1 < 1236913676 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm no idea < 1236913812 0 :kwertii!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"bye" < 1236913825 0 :kwertii!n=kwertii@c-71-202-121-102.hsd1.ca.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236915937 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a good rolling checksum/? < 1236916043 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 < 1236916046 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's round and smooth. < 1236916051 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should roll quite nicely. < 1236916071 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also the 1-bit checksum (i.e. parity) for anything that has an even number of 1s. < 1236916110 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that's helpful < 1236916128 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn, then I've failed. < 1236916240 0 :Sgeo[Worms]!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Sgeo < 1236916324 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would use adler32, but that's no good for short strings < 1236916536 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1236916668 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1236917804 0 :kwertii!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"bye" < 1236919001 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1236922847 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1236922938 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ALL TAUTOLOGIES ARE TAUTOLOGIES < 1236922946 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just felt i should let you guys know this. < 1236922968 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x!=x is true for some x < 1236924000 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nan != nan < 1236925342 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is weird. < 1236926944 0 :oklofok!n=nnscript@a91-153-121-248.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1236928058 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236928229 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1236931199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1236931200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1236934257 0 :neldoreth!n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth JOIN :#esoteric < 1236934761 0 :jix!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-112-229.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1236936714 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Client Excited" < 1236938632 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: re. vim addressing the nonexistent last char on a line, look at :help 'virtualedit < 1236940681 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This was a rather vague statement: "For students – written confirmation of student status signed by scientific advisor is needed." We just faxed a free-form statement printed on some TKK logo-paper, since I don't think any of the more or less official "student status" proofs have any "scientific advisors" on them. < 1236942372 0 :tombom!i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1236942388 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gahh that IE-only Travel system is horrible. < 1236943041 0 :mvmn!n=sauron_i@194.44.247.140 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236943131 0 :mvmn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hails < 1236943170 0 :mvmn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've implemented Thue interpreter in Java. You may get it freey from here - http://mvmn.wordpress.com/2009/03/12/thue-in-java/ < 1236943234 0 :mvmn!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what I did it for (it's esoteric, hehe), so decided to spread it to the world - maybe someone will find a good use for it (-: < 1236943609 0 :Corun!n=Corun@93-97-219-19.zone5.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1236944466 0 :mvmn!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1236944599 0 :Oklopol!n=nnscript@a91-153-121-248.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1236944614 0 :Oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my computer is borken `___´ < 1236944619 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BORK < 1236944623 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BORK BORK BORK BORK < 1236944639 0 :Oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oklopoll < 1236944640 0 :oklopoll!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :oklopol < 1236945587 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236950426 0 :Hiato!n=1@dsl-245-1-23.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1236951269 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1236955388 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236955751 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1236956470 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236957595 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236959394 0 :Corun!n=Corun@93-97-219-19.zone5.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1236960173 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1236960508 0 :neldoret1!n=user@81-223-127-237.stpeter.xdsl-line.inode.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1236961061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan is wrong < 1236961066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::split is for framey-things < 1236961066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but tabs < 1236961068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not < 1236961103 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::tabe % < 1236961111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236961113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tabe < 1236961127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://img24.imageshack.us/img24/1448/picture5okr.png <- those buttons, looks like snow leopard < 1236961261 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1236961438 0 :FireyFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236961816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236961821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now to figure out how to "tabe filename at point" < 1236962224 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=BeholdMy@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1236963147 0 :Corun!n=Corun@93-97-219-19.zone5.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1236963314 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236963331 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1236963387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We thought if we were to find the smallest universal machine then we could learn a great deal about computability -- of course that wouldn't be so! < 1236963390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— John McCarthy < 1236963395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The reader is welcome to enter the competition [to design the smallest universal Turing machine ...] although the reader should understand clearly that the question is an intensely tricky puzzle and has essentially no serious mathematical interest. < 1236963397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— Marvin Minsky < 1236963402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOW WE UNDERSTAND COMPUTATION! < 1236963405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— Stephen Wolfram < 1236963509 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wolfram solved the halting problem < 1236963523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes he asked wolfram|alpha < 1236963527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"how to solve halting problem" < 1236963529 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236963541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it gave him that stackoverflow article we linked earlier < 1236963544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(about the BF halting checker) < 1236963549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then he enlighteninged < 1236963647 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BF halting checker? < 1236963671 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That shouldn't be too hard, considering that most BF is 30k cells or so < 1236963673 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-3-248.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236963730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10AB -> B < 1236963730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11ABC -> 11AC1BC < 1236963739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ simpler than Binary Combinatory Logic? < 1236963742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm wait < 1236963746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that has 11 wrong < 1236963747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1236963748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nm < 1236963951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1236963956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1236964539 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1236964581 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-133-63.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236964624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nitens.org/taraborelli/latex ← Typography porn. < 1236964791 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ligatures are hot < 1236964838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there's someone who's actually sexually attracted to good typography. < 1236965009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.josbuivenga.demon.nl/tallys.html <- awesome font < 1236965028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, typeface. < 1236965031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please forgive me. < 1236965081 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird : We have someone on a conlanging forum < 1236965086 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :She has this expression < 1236965089 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCRIPTGASM < 1236965092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A person? On a forum? That's amazing. < 1236965098 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because she enjoys "pretty scripties" < 1236965110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, sure, but is she actually physically aroused by them? < 1236965117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'll have to do some tests. < 1236965153 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, she's a minor, so it would probably be illegal < 1236965166 0 :oklofok!n=nnscript@a91-153-121-248.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1236965327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, why have I never used Hoefler Text before? < 1236965329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's one awesome typeface. < 1236965717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kay, if I ever publish a book it'll be in hoefler tex < 1236965718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1236966673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, fizzie: There? < 1236966700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What exactly is the correct way to interpret a form feed in the program file when in befunge 98 mode? < 1236966714 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :byte #12 < 1236966724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so it should just be loaded as it is? < 1236966732 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1236966769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Subsequent lines in Unefunge are simply appended to the first, and the end of the source file indicates the end of the (single) line. End-of-line markers are never copied into Funge-Space. < 1236966774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that is for unefunge < 1236966786 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, crap < 1236966787 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then do that < 1236966794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so loading form feed raw into funge space would be inconsistent < 1236966795 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.e. ignore it < 1236966804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what about when you load with i? < 1236966814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"source file" < 1236966818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1236966824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's a source file < 1236966828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then newlines are ignored < 1236966830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise, it's not < 1236966832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i includes a file, right? < 1236966833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or sth < 1236966836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd class that as a source file < 1236966836 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loading with i is equivalent to loading the source < 1236966842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you can load a source file with i, or a data file < 1236966859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'd say any file-based representation of fungespace where one char = one place is a source file < 1236966862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know wha I mean < 1236966863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1236966871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, i has two loading modes. < 1236966872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, if the least significant bit of the flags cell is high, i treats the file as a binary file; that is, EOL and FF sequences are stored in Funge-space instead of causing the dimension counters to be reset and incremented. < 1236966880 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, and they are both very well specced. < 1236966886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i can has two loading modes? < 1236966894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, XD < 1236966897 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, that answers your question directly... I don't get why you're asking me < 1236966977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay I am way too obsessed with fonts atm; halp < 1236966993 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Use Comic Sans and forget the rest < 1236966997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://bohemiancoding.com/?Fontcase <-- think I will download this to feed my crack^Wfont habit < 1236967000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, So to get it straight: 1) Initial load: ignore FF in befunge. 2) i binary: put everything in 3) i non-binary: EOL as usual (y++) FF ignored? < 1236967004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I should make Comic Helvetica < 1236967011 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 1) and 3) are equivalent < 1236967015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and cause the apocalypse < 1236967020 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 1) just hardcodes the position as (0,0) < 1236967026 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(,0,0,0...) < 1236967041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes indeed. I just wanted to be sure I got it right < 1236967047 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: If you want to be useful add glyphs to DejaVu Sans Mono < 1236967057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like dejavu sans mono :-( < 1236967068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks ugly. < 1236967076 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Start with GLAGOLITIC CAPITAL LETTER SPIDERY HA < 1236967083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... On the other hand! < 1236967087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, currently I'm doing coverage analysis of cfunge and writing test cases for things missing mycology. < 1236967100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :New project: Add the GLAGOLITIC CAPITAL LETTER SPIDERY HA to every font in the universe. < 1236967117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sounds cool. How do you make/edit a font btw? < 1236967123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: using expensive software < 1236967127 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :U+2C22 if you want to look at a reference pic < 1236967136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm sure there is some free software *searches* < 1236967147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, but ... not very good. < 1236967152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :media-gfx/fontforge http://fontforge.sourceforge.net/ ? < 1236967156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never tried it < 1236967166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typefaces are ... ever so slightly complex. < 1236967173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also very niche < 1236967178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which would explain the lack of good free tools < 1236967182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately < 1236967183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well truetype is certainly complex < 1236967191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fontographer seems popular < 1236967192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember reading about the file format some time ago. < 1236967194 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@a-144.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1236967210 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://dejavu-fonts.org/wiki/index.php?title=Developer%27s_Corner suggests fontforge < 1236967215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: truetype is out of date, actually < 1236967220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sorta < 1236967226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :opentype is more widely used in new stuff IME < 1236967232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1236967236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: yes, but they're a free project; they wouldn't recommend a commercial tool < 1236967241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never seen opentype on anything but apple < 1236967251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: opentype is a microsoft format < 1236967256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hm < 1236967257 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Yes, of course, I was only considering free ones anyway < 1236967265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, there's only fontforge. < 1236967274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm pretty sure I have seen opentype on OS X though... I may be wrong < 1236967277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236967281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all default fonts on OS X are opentype < 1236967283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236967297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy crap I love fontcase < 1236967300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is opentype free and patent-unencumbered? < 1236967306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1236967312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iii don't know < 1236967320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://partners.adobe.com/public/developer/opentype/index_spec.html < 1236967321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, just because it says "open" doesn't mean it actually is < 1236967328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's the spec < 1236967339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1236967339 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1236967342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1236967343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1236967357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, argh! you were a second faster < 1236967366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I ended up second < 1236967370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, Charcoal CY is a pretty typeface < 1236967381 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c0796BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1236967567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I think your = has a bug < 1236967586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ehird, AnMaster < 1236967590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, "After execution, a failure value is pushed onto the stack. If this value is zero, everything went as expected. If the value is non-zero, it may be the return-code of the program that was executed; at any rate it means that the attempt to execute the program, or the program itself, did not succeed." < 1236967601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, try = on empty stack, it pushes 0 < 1236967612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it might be UNDEF < 1236967616 0 :Mony!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-93-123.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236967636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but to me it sounds like everything didn't go as planned < 1236967639 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say everything went as expected < 1236967647 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You asked me to execute nothing and I did, successfully < 1236967652 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so what is the meaning of empty string = ? < 1236967658 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does = do? < 1236967663 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Like /bin/true < 1236967669 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: system() < 1236967679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... empty string = is impl-defined, I'm almost certain < 1236967684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, execute a string in an implementation defined way. This means system() usually < 1236967686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just want to buy every typeface in the world. < 1236967690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use them all. < 1236967700 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plop < 1236967713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge pushes -2 on empty string to = < 1236967714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Mony < 1236967726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does system("") do? < 1236967728 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: FBBI would also push 0 < 1236967728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should be what = does. < 1236967737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, implementation defined I *think* < 1236967741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: try it on your system. < 1236967743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is C implementation < 1236967744 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : If the value of command is NULL, system() returns non-zero if the shell < 1236967744 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : is available, and zero if not. < 1236967744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it does something sane, copy that < 1236967749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :system(NULL) is defined by the C standard, it tells you whether system() can do anything or not < 1236967751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: do that, then < 1236967753 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :system("") is different, and isn't defined < 1236967757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236967757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1236967766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, what does system("") do on linux/bsd? < 1236967769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just do that. < 1236967804 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You do realize that my code is just push(system(popstring)) or something equally simple < 1236967811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Then your code is right./ < 1236967816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1236967823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to make my own Befunge interp. Again < 1236967831 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's your INTERCAL impl doing? < 1236967832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it returns 0 < 1236967838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Do that. < 1236967847 0 :jix_!n=jix@dyndsl-095-033-074-217.ewe-ip-backbone.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1236967848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: When I said April, I meant next April < 1236967874 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-INTERCAL 0.01 was famously written in a weekend < 1236967878 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, it didn't actually work < 1236967878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But anyway; only three compliant implementations? This will not do. < 1236967884 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Four, no? < 1236967890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Umm.. < 1236967892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, stinkhorn? < 1236967895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that really incomplete? < 1236967900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on *POSIX* system() is defined like: < 1236967900 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That makes five if it does < 1236967901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The environment of the executed command shall be as if a child process were created using fork(), and the child process invoked the sh utility using < 1236967902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : execl() as follows: < 1236967902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : execl(, "sh", "-c", command, (char *)0); < 1236967905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is stinkhorn? < 1236967905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: list them? < 1236967908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Asztal's < 1236967912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CCBI, cfunge, RC/funge98 < 1236967914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : where is an unspecified pathname for the sh utility. < 1236967915 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: CCBI, cfunge, RC/Funge-98, Language::Befunge were the ones I was thinking of < 1236967917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What else is compliant? < 1236967918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236967922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Language::Befunge is compliant? < 1236967924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And complete? < 1236967932 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last I checked, IIRC, yes < 1236967940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, very slow, I presume :P < 1236967953 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's working on speeding it up, haven't tried it in a while < 1236967965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, and yes your code is very similiar to push(system(popstring)). I looked a few minutes ago. Think there was a cast too < 1236967980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :void execute() { < 1236967980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ip.stack.push(cast(cell)system(popStringz())); < 1236967980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :} < 1236967983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is Deewiant's code < 1236968004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, my interpreter's goal: < 1236968020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Be completely complian. Support as many fingerprints as possible. As a very distant last goal, be fast enough. < 1236968021 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make a DS9K < 1236968024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*compliant < 1236968038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I will be sure to have a flyDemonsOutOfUsersNose function. < 1236968040 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like CCBI to me, 'fast' just a bit more distant then usual < 1236968042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, hm = may *ONLY* reflect if = is unimplemented right? < 1236968043 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Argh < 1236968044 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/then/than/ < 1236968048 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is efunge complaint yet < 1236968054 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think so, yep < 1236968062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1236968064 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt it's a complaint < 1236968077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: CCBI is 1) not written by me 2) doesn't support all of MKRY's shitprints 3) is not written in Haskell < 1236968093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well 99.99%. I just found a bug if a file uses CR line endings. Haven't had time to investigate yet. < 1236968101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, MKRY is MikeRiley's new name; spread the word. < 1236968113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I found it doing coverage analysis, and I plan to complete that first, collecting a todo list. < 1236968121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb phone < 1236968121 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, I'd love to make a befunge-98 DS9K < 1236968134 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a befunge-93 DS9K would unfortunately probably not function on any programs at all < 1236968143 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deep Space 9000? < 1236968152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: make a (feral) DS9K fingerprint < 1236968155 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Right, some of 2) is actually by choice and not just due to that DMD bug < 1236968156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that has no instructions < 1236968159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but when you load it < 1236968165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it puts the interpreter into DeathStation 9000 mode < 1236968168 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: For 3) we have hsfunge (or we don't, but funktio does) < 1236968172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for hardcore programmers < 1236968176 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: so it complies with the standard, but nothing else? < 1236968184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: right! Not even the laws of physics. < 1236968186 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately, it has at least one fingerprint loaded, and thus can legally do anything < 1236968186 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd be a bit crap actually < 1236968206 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because the spec is so messed up that it probably wouldn't run many programs that well < 1236968212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: 2) See? Inferior. 3) It is incomplete, and doesn't reach the other goals, and funktio is dead < 1236968221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that would be the point < 1236968233 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funktio isn't dead, he said something on #haskell a few days ago < 1236968249 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And for 2), well, we have RC/Funge-98 for that < 1236968251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his site is down, he hasn't been in here for ages, and I don't even know how I could get hsfunge < 1236968253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's pretty dead < 1236968259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 2) RC/Funge doesn't meet the other goals :P < 1236968264 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :His site is dead < 1236968348 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: And given your original goals, I think it does meet < 1236968364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It fails 1) and 3) of my new goals < 1236968365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:14 ehird: Deewiant: CCBI is 1) not written by me 2) doesn't support all of MKRY's shitprints 3) is not written in Haskell < 1236968423 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah_: DS9K = DeathStation 9000 < 1236968447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is basically something that complies to the letter of a standard, but not its spirit < 1236968463 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Windows for POSIX, for instance, they got everything that legally could return ENOTIMPLEMENTED IIRC < 1236968466 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You didn't explicitly specify those as goals < 1236968474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: oh stfu :P < 1236968558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway the most important thing in a funge interp is a name; all else follows < 1236968571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should call it FG98 :-D < 1236968578 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1236968590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2009-March/057590.html <-- <3 < 1236968594 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what will its handprint be? < 1236968606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: FG98 < 1236968606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236968609 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1236968616 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what will the handprint for the next version be? < 1236968623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :next version? < 1236968640 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster/Deewiant: do you have to change the handprint if you upgrade a Funge interp to a new version? < 1236968651 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1236968676 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's variants that have to have different handprints < 1236968694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as CFUN for cfunge, but CFFI for cfunge + IFFI + C-INTERCAL < 1236968777 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236968799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I NEED A BASIC REPL < 1236968830 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: BASIC isn't really suited to REPLs < 1236968836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure it is < 1236968839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whyever not? < 1236968844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As long as it automatically numbers lines < 1236968850 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because nearly all nontrivial BASIC programs span multiple lines < 1236968854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, and? < 1236968860 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean liek c64 < 1236968924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hee I wrote a BASIC program oh that was fun < 1236968927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is so fun about BASIC? < 1236968929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's so shitty/ < 1236968938 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :REPLs? < 1236968948 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BASIC was one of the first languages to really catch on amongst the general computer-using public < 1236968949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: o_o < 1236968951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!SYNTAX ERROR IN LINE 40, COLUMN 29 < 1236968951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : UNEXPECTED 1 < 1236968953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : EXPECTING : OR END OF LINE < 1236968954 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means "replica" < 1236968959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just puts the parsec error in uppercase < 1236968959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1236968960 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Read, Evaluate, Print, Loop < 1236968974 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: either me or ais523 is lying, i think < 1236968979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a small program that prints the results of expressions in a given language < 1236968989 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as ghci for Haskell, or intercalc for CLC-INTERCAL < 1236969004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: it's like < 1236969007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ python < 1236969008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for python. < 1236969013 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wikis < 1236969014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(There, in words you understand. :P) < 1236969014 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ty < 1236969018 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1236969020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the interactive prompt < 1236969051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interestingly, with Perl you need to use perl -de 0 to get a repl < 1236969053 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not just perl < 1236969059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236969060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :question < 1236969064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in BASIC how come < 1236969066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IF X THEN NUMBER < 1236969070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotos NUMBER < 1236969072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, e.g. < 1236969075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRINT "FOO":10 < 1236969076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't work < 1236969077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need < 1236969080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRINT "FOO":GOTO 10 < 1236969088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IF X THEN 10 is an abbreviation < 1236969091 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :syntax antisugar, if you like < 1236969101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no that's definitely syntactic sugar < 1236969104 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was actually the only form of IF that used to be accepted < 1236969120 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it used to be that IF only ever did a goto, you couldn't get it to do anything else < 1236969127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"For example, FORK=1TON appears to set the value of a variable FORK to a weight of 1 ton. In reality it begins a FOR loop with control variable K, ranging in value from 1 to N." < 1236969155 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, that was important on early computers, removing all the whitespace from a program helped it to fit in memory < 1236969200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 PRINT "LOOK AROUND YOU"; < 1236969201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 GOTO 10 < 1236969208 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOOK AROUND YOU < 1236969210 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOOK AROUND YOU < 1236969213 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOOK AROUND YOU < 1236969213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO < 1236969214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has ; < 1236969215 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOOK AROUND YOU < 1236969216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it all goes on one line < 1236969218 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOOK AROUND YOU < 1236969219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOOK AROUND YOULOOK AROUND YOULOOK AROUND YOULOOK AROUND YOULOOK AROUND YOULOOK AROUND YOULOOK AROUND YOULOOK AROUND YOULOOK AROUND YOULOOK AROUND YOULOOK AROUND YOULOOK AROUND YOULOOK AROUND YOULOOK AROUND YOULOOK AROUND YOULOOK AROUND YOULOOK AROUND YOULOOK AROUND YOULOOK AROUND YOULOOK AROUND YOU < 1236969224 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :; is an anti-newline in BASIC print statements < 1236969232 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH < 1236969236 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even better, < 1236969241 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 Look Around You < 1236969244 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRINT "LOOK AROUND YOU"' < 1236969245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although; in the original one, it had no ; < 1236969249 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prints LOOK AROUND YOU and then two newlines < 1236969251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :different implementations < 1236969262 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my implementation is non-standard! < 1236969269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look, around you. Look around, you. Just, look around you. < 1236969270 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOOK AROUND YOU < 1236969273 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INFINITE LOOP DETECTED < 1236969280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :single-quote, in many BASIC impls, prints a newline, and otherwise acts like a comma except it doesn't need anything before or after it < 1236969286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOOK AROUND YOU SORRY IT IS LOOP < 1236969301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1236969304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdI_MmN-Lp4 < 1236969306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a space and a ; < 1236969310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 PRINT "LOOK AROUND YOU "; < 1236969310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 GOTO 10 < 1236969312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1236969312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amended code < 1236969338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster/Deewiant: do you have to change the handprint if you upgrade a Funge interp to a new version? <-- no, you change version < 1236969365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: < 1236969366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mdI_MmN-Lp4 < 1236969369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cheskers in Look Around You < 1236969429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what would be the easiest way to insert a literal form feed in emacs? < 1236969437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ctrl-V Ctrl-M < 1236969438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No? < 1236969441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ^Q^L < 1236969446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, ^L < 1236969447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe. I forgot the key combo < 1236969447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, C-q C-l as this is emacs < 1236969450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1236969460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: C-v is "scroll down" in emacs < 1236969465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah fuck emacs < 1236969465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236969471 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C-q is "insert next character literally unless it's a digit" < 1236969480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so which key is form feed then < 1236969484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: C-l < 1236969492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know the problem with VINTAGE BASIC? < 1236969495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No "DRAW" instruction. < 1236969497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1236969501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fucking need DRAW. BASIC is useless without it. < 1236969514 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That's where I got the idea :P < 1236969519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Hahaha < 1236969647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The behavior is different depending on the value passed. If the value is positive, the result will be a new random value between 0 and 1 (including 0 but not 1). If the value is zero, the result will be a repeat of the last random number generated." < 1236969655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, is that to avoid an extra variable? < 1236969671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure that after a while, they generalised it to add negative arguments < 1236969676 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I forget what they do < 1236969687 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, variables used to be in short supply < 1236969697 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not just that, to avoid having to write out the code to save the random number in a variable < 1236969713 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :original BASIC was highly golfed, by necessity, the programs wouldn't fit in memory otherwise < 1236969883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay, i wrote a guessing game. That was so pointless, but I enjoyed it anyway. < 1236969886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 A=INT(RND(1)*100) < 1236969886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 INPUT"GUESS THE NUMBER";B < 1236969887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :30 IF B=A THEN 60 < 1236969889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :40 IF BA THEN 80 < 1236969892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :60 PRINT"YOU WIN!":END < 1236969895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :70 PRINT"TOO SMALL":GOTO 20 < 1236969896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :80 PRINT"TOO BIG":GOTO 20 < 1236969916 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: line 30 is redundant < 1236969921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha, so it is. < 1236969922 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could delete it and the program would still work < 1236969948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How did kids guess the target line number before they wrote it...? < 1236969959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can write the lines in any order < 1236969962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and revise them < 1236969967 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you just write GOTO 0 the first time round < 1236969972 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then edit the line later to fix the number < 1236969974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, how boring. < 1236969978 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION used to have a BBC BASIC computer < 1236970007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I'm sure it can be less than 7 lines < 1236970013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although...nah < 1236970019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1236970034 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :30 C=1+SGN(A-B) < 1236970039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 INPUT"GUESS THE NUMBER";B < 1236970039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 IF BINT(RND(1)*100) THEN 60 < 1236970043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :40 PRINT"YOU WIN!":END < 1236970045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :50 PRINT"TOO SMALL":GOTO 20 < 1236970045 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :40 CASECON70,60,80 < 1236970047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :60 PRINT"TOO BIG":GOTO 20 < 1236970049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works, but it pointless < 1236970051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: whaddafu < 1236970057 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: same length, unfortunately < 1236970061 0 :Corun!n=Corun@93-97-219-19.zone5.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1236970064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you need RND(0) not RND(1) < 1236970067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1236970086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION rewrites program in haskell to see how far programming has advanced < 1236970091 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also remember you're allowed lowercase in string literals < 1236970094 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'll make the output look nicer < 1236970101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SSH < 1236970102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the 70s < 1236970107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no such thing as lowercase < 1236970120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lowercase hasn't been INVENTED yet < 1236970132 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the appendix to the ALGOL-68 standard stated an optional program file format for computers that allowed lowercas < 1236970133 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*lowercase < 1236970137 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes, it had been < 1236970150 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although apparently it wasn't in common enough use to assume all computers had it < 1236970205 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then came unicode. < 1236970211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and RUINED EVERYTHING. < 1236970218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I want my DRAW. < 1236970226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am ITCHY without DRAW. < 1236970259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :READ var1, var2, ... < 1236970259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Reads data from DATA statements into variables. A pointer is maintained into the DATA values, which could be anywhere within the program. Values are read in order into the variables, and the pointer is advanced. A runtime error occurs if there are not enough DATA values to fill the variables. The DATA pointer can be reset using a RESTORE statement. Example: READ A$, B. < 1236970264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wat < 1236970275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you don't know of READ? < 1236970285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know what the heck it is on about < 1236970295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here's an example < 1236970296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DATA literal1, literal2, ... < 1236970296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has no effect when executed, but supplies data for the READ statement. Each value can be a string or floating-point literal (not an expression). Whitespace is ignored around values. Double quotes can be placed around a string to escape whitespace and commas between the quotes. DATA statements can occur on the same line as other statements, but, due to its special parsing rules, it must be the last statement on the line. The line on which the DATA stateme < 1236970299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 READ A < 1236970300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nt occurs can be used as the target of a RESTORE statement. Example: DATA January, 31, "Martian History Month". < 1236970303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whyyyy < 1236970305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 PRINT A < 1236970307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :30 GOTO 10 < 1236970313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :40 DATA 1,2,3,4,5,6,7,8,9 < 1236970314 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :martian history month!!! < 1236970320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: good lord, why? < 1236970320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that prints all the numbers from 1 to 9, then errors < 1236970331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :beautiful... but... WHY < 1236970341 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, you're hardly going to waste your precious 52 variables by using them to store data, are you? < 1236970349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<33 < 1236970362 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DATA effectively creates ROM < 1236970367 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that you can access via READ and RESTORE < 1236970378 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1236970410 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 RESTORE -10: READ A: PRINT A: GOTO 10 < 1236970422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://drivey.com/DONKEYQB.BAS.html < 1236970428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DONKEY.BAS is the prettiest program ever written. < 1236970433 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX: RESTORE takes arguments? Wow, I never knew that < 1236970441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good luck writing DONKEY.BAS that concisely in modern languages < 1236970451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that QB implies QBasic < 1236970452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it? < 1236970455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's a port < 1236970461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that presumably doesn't change all that much < 1236970487 0 :Corun!n=Corun@93-97-219-19.zone5.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1236970507 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that first line, translated to C, would be *(char*)106 = 0 < 1236970515 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate to think what that was designed to do... < 1236970526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh, you know POKEs < 1236970531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it'd be putting it into graphical mode < 1236970532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1236970535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes < 1236970543 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only thing I ever used POKEs from was to turn caps lock on and off < 1236970555 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after a while I wised up and converted the input to uppercase/lowercase in my program instead < 1236970561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with POKE, your days of 52 variables are long gone! < 1236970567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, and PEEK :P < 1236970572 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION POKES ehird  < 1236970588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1236970593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Donkey .NET is a three-dimensional driving simulator game that demonstrates the new features available to Microsoft® Visual Basic® developers." < 1236970595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.microsoft.com/downloads/details.aspx?FamilyID=990d0ec1-23ea-4408-898d-1fd5727a8890&displaylang=en < 1236970601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Donkey .NET is a three-dimensional driving simulator game that demonstrates the new features available to Microsoft® Visual Basic® developers. Written in Visual Basic .NET RTM, this sample uses XML Web services, multithreading, structured exception handling, shaped Windows Forms, and custom-drawn controls. The sample includes the setups for both the game application and an optional XML Web service used with the game. The setups will also install the so < 1236970604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :urce code. < 1236970606 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO! Not Visual BASIC! < 1236970619 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, .NET? < 1236970621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1236970625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blasphemy of the highest degree. < 1236970627 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Visual BASIC was invented ages before .NET was < 1236970636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :visual basic is now VB.NET < 1236970649 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes, the non-.NET versions aren't maintained < 1236970673 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks it's interesting that .NET is the bytecode format with the most widely-used languages targeting it < 1236970684 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most byte-compiled langs have their own bytecode < 1236970690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but all the microsoft ones compile to .NET < 1236970712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the microsoft folks endorse Mono semi-officially < 1236970713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is nice < 1236970720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. silverlight download page on linux, directs you to mono's Moonlight pag < 1236970721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1236970743 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Microsoft are currently at the stage of trying to get Silverlight generally accepted < 1236970752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% vintbas /dev/stdin < 1236970752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :POKE 0,0 < 1236970754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!LINE NUMBERING ERROR IN RAW LINE 1, COLUMN 1 < 1236970756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : UNEXPECTED "P" < 1236970758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : EXPECTING LINE NUMBER OR END OF FILE < 1236970758 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :making people think it has good Linux support is one way to do that < 1236970760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Useless. < 1236970768 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although interestingly, there doesn't seem to be a Mac version, or wasn't last I looked < 1236970779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mono runs on os x < 1236970785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno about plugins tho < 1236970785 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I didn't know that < 1236970805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236970805 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, there are quite a few people who suspect that Mono has Microsoft patents in, and so to legally use it you have to download it from Novell < 1236970816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there's a portable QBasic interpreter < 1236970817 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea whether that one's true or not < 1236970828 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: QBasic runs under DOSbox, I suspect < 1236970828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(using a virtual heap, OFC, with traps on things like that 103) < 1236970837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: meh, I guess so < 1236970839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be nicer to have it to hand < 1236970864 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there are so many peeks/pokes to literal addresses in typical programs you'd want a full DOS emulator < 1236970870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tru < 1236970870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1236970960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://boxerapp.com/ <-- Wow, someone made DOSBox all mac-like. < 1236970971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't that a bit pointless when the actual DOS inside will be very very DOS? :P < 1236970997 0 :Robdgreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people are allowed to delude themselves < 1236971028 0 :Robdgreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :form over function, ALWAYS < 1236971060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the DOS inside DOSBox isn't all that DOS-like, I find < 1236971064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is strange < 1236971066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Robdgreat: Y'know, it's possible to have both. < 1236971073 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of my old DOS programs don't run in it < 1236971089 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's for games, not for your old dos programs < 1236971094 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's for dune and xcom < 1236971095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Yeah, true. < 1236971108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: but my programs were games < 1236971113 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :admittedly, I wrote them < 1236971118 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't prevent them being games < 1236971145 0 :Robdgreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: true, but I won't throw a hammer out just because it's not pretty enough < 1236971148 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm guessing that dosbox is a fairly imperfect emulation < 1236971153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Robdgreat: indeed < 1236971164 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and when they want to improve it, they take some popular game they know doesn't run properly, and fix dosbox until the game runs < 1236971174 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about running FreeDOS in a VM? < 1236971181 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that ought to work if the VM works properly < 1236971187 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and their list of popular games might not actually include any games by ais523 < 1236971205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aww, Boxer comes with ton sof DOS tols but not qbasic. < 1236971207 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never mind, I ported that game to Windows ages ago and it runs in WINE < 1236971223 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably port it to Allegro or SDL sometime < 1236971234 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it'll run in Linux too, and probably on a Mac < 1236971241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, it comes with a bunch of games. Aren't they copyrighted...? < 1236971252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not all DOS games are copyright < 1236971260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of them is Commander Keen 4 < 1236971261 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nearly all are abandonware, technically that's illegal but nobody but me seems to care < 1236971273 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's good you care < 1236971274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, abandonware is legal, it's just that most things aren't abandonware < 1236971296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I thought the definition of abandonware was copyrighted stuff which was so old and worthless nobody could be bothered to enforce the copyright < 1236971342 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe it's the shareware version of Keen 4? < 1236971372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks full < 1236971372 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1236971381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The sites claim it's games with expired copyright < 1236971389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of which there are none in the US, as far as I know < 1236971396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, probably, the UK < 1236971414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copyright is stupid anyway, it should expire way earlier < 1236971429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :none of this 2 to the power of the age of the author at death + 7 million years < 1236971434 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is possible, I think, for there to be DOS games nowadays where the author died over 25 years ago < 1236971441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, true < 1236971443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many, though? < 1236971451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a lot, I suspect, most programmers are quite young < 1236971458 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I suppose they might have died in an accident or something < 1236971474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose < 1236971479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QBasic#Simple_game < 1236971479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1236971481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sucks < 1236971486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's waaay longer than my version < 1236971496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all theirs does is decease the range and put a cap on the guesses < 1236971497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236971502 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was rather complete; you just got episodes 5 and 6 when you boughteded it. Although I might remember wrongly. < 1236971512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boughteded < 1236971535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, who has QBASIC.EXE? < 1236971565 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to have it, but I think it's bit-rotted to death by now < 1236971570 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google has it. < 1236971588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, I'm trying to google it, fizzie < 1236971592 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have dos 6.22 installation floppy images I dd'd once, I assume it would be there too. < 1236971598 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.winsite.com/bin/Info?4385 has a download link. < 1236971599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.velocityreviews.com/forums/t43803-does-xp-have-coding.html DOES XP HAVE CODING < 1236971609 0 :Robdgreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have it somewhere < 1236971611 0 :Robdgreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION digs < 1236971618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe at least one program has been written on Windows XP < 1236971633 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was enlightened when i managed to understand that the quick basic game with gorillas throwing bananas did not have bits of code for drawing a banada for every single position on the screen < 1236971635 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I certainly ported programs from Windows 95 to Windows XP < 1236971635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut, why does "copy con con" say con not found < 1236971639 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*banana < 1236971641 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's con: < 1236971643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: haha < 1236971643 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is pretty worrying < 1236971644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: o < 1236971650 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that doesn't work either on DOSbox, IIRC < 1236971656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: no u lie < 1236971658 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOSbox is not a very good implementation of DOS < 1236971658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ILLEGAL PATH < 1236971669 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey. < 1236971671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't even say illegal command or file name or murder < 1236971672 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it was originally CON: on the precursor to DOS < 1236971676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it says Illegal command: blah. < 1236971681 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zem.fi/~fis/qbasic.exe < 1236971682 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS changed it to CON.* < 1236971684 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including with no extension < 1236971692 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because back then, most programs had implied extensions < 1236971697 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some strange reason, qbasic.exe was uncompressed on the first install floppy of dos 6.21. < 1236971712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.winsite.com/bin/Info?4385 <-- this lacks .hlp < 1236971716 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't even realise you could get dos 6 except bundled with Windows < 1236971733 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just about all other files are compressed with that funky scheme which makes .foo files into .fo_ files. Only attrib.exe, debug.exe, expand.exe and qbasic.exe are uncompressed. < 1236971736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: concerning raw FF, would "ignore it" mean "don't write anything, but go to next cell" or "don't even increment x" < 1236971776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if you can buy QBASIC from microsofft < 1236971784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or download it for free? < 1236971786 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: http://zem.fi/~fis/qbasic.hl_ has the hlp file, but you need expand.exe to uncompress it. :p < 1236971787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*microsoft < 1236971794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I doubt they would give anything away for free < 1236971808 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they gave away limited versions of VC++ for free < 1236971812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yesy es < 1236971815 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's a lot more advanced than QBaisc < 1236971817 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*QBasic < 1236971818 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although you can download expand.exe too from http://zem.fi/~fis/expand.exe < 1236971827 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, that should be all to get qbasic.exe and qbasic.hlp out. < 1236971831 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ends up on microsoft.com far too often < 1236971832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay < 1236971844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION attempts to configure Boxer to stretch the display WITHOUT antialiasing it badly < 1236971872 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If you need to run QBasic in Windows 2000, you can copy it from a Microsoft Windows NT 4.0-based computer, or you can expand the files from a Windows NT 4.0 CD-ROM." < 1236971880 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, are microsoft advising people to violate their own licence? < 1236971896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1236971979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: try http://download.microsoft.com/download/win95upg/tool_s/1.0/w95/en-us/olddos.exe < 1236971996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't looked myself, but allegedly qbasic is in there < 1236972016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# "opengl" will use bilinear filtering when scaling (smoother but < 1236972018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# fuzzier), while "openglnb" will preserve the original appearance < 1236972020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# (which may result in odd stretching at certain resolutions.) < 1236972022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1236972035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Din't work :( < 1236972059 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'd say don't even increment, since that's how Unefunge works < 1236972104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, right < 1236972131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, CCBI fails to handle it correctly < 1236972142 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep, probably < 1236972302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, boxer is actually quite nice < 1236972399 0 :ais523_sandbox!n=ais523_n@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1236972405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1236972411 0 :ais523_sandbox!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry about that < 1236972412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where do executables go in DOS, generally? < 1236972414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C:\, right? < 1236972422 0 :ais523_sandbox!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: a directory inside c:| < 1236972424 0 :ais523_sandbox!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*c:\ < 1236972427 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wherever you want < 1236972428 0 :ais523_sandbox!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :named after the executable < 1236972433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, btw, CCBI never writes at a higher x coordinate than the edge of the initial loaded program < 1236972434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236972444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, while it does write at a higher y coordinate < 1236972449 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: write? < 1236972458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, p or other way to update < 1236972467 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_o < 1236972468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that would cause bounds to change in y < 1236972489 0 :ais523_sandbox!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, I'm inside the sandbox at the moment to see what olddos.exe does < 1236972496 0 :ais523_sandbox!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to have qbasic.exe in < 1236972500 0 :ais523_sandbox!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no licence agreement < 1236972513 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So are you saying that '5f0pf0g.@' doesn't work? < 1236972519 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or what? < 1236972525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, so if the bounds are defined as {topleft{x,y},bottomright{x,y}} then you never write at x higher than x of bottomright < 1236972527 0 :ais523_sandbox!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, it works < 1236972539 0 :ais523_sandbox!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I now have what is AFAICT a legal copy of QBasic, direct from Microsoft < 1236972554 0 :ais523_sandbox!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :run olddos.exe in dosbox, rather than wine < 1236972557 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: So what exactly doesn't work? < 1236972566 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the above work? < 1236972566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523_sandbox: if they're offering it, my downloaded version is legal too < 1236972571 0 :ais523_sandbox!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose so < 1236972580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well it works. Just you didn't test that < 1236972581 0 :ais523_sandbox!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it's a different bit pattern in the version they're offering, or something < 1236972588 0 :ais523_sandbox!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, going back out of the sandbox < 1236972593 0 :ais523_sandbox!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1236972601 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: So you meant to say 'Mycology' and not 'CCBI' < 1236972609 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah yes < 1236972610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typo < 1236972613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(mental one) < 1236972616 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phew, you had me worried there :-P < 1236972622 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The letters are like right next to each other." < 1236972624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I mean, you test the value from y is correct before/after writing at -1,-1. But not writing outside in the other corner < 1236972637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgur.com/6AYNY.png <- The unparalleled elegance of the Mac OS X user interface. < 1236972640 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that can happen < 1236972668 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I've said it before, many times, and I'll say it once more now: combinatorial explosion of testcases means that I don't do everything that could be done < 1236972708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There needs to be a way of copying text from DOS to outsid < 1236972709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1236972711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236972738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, internally cfunge doesn't store it as x,y,w,h, but x1,y1,x2,y2. It translates it for sysinfo. I mean it is an easy typo to write: if (x < minx) minx = x; else if (x > maxx) minx = x; < 1236972740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1236972744 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Works right in DOSemu on Linux. ;) < 1236972749 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apologies for the crudeness, but I just misread Deewiant's comment as "combinatorial explosion of testicles". That sounded painful. < 1236972754 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236972761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You can copy and paste text from QBasic to elsewhere? < 1236972768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Impressive; howd oes it work? < 1236972786 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How anything in X11 works: select and middle-click. < 1236972802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but DOS isn't that simple. < 1236972803 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, so I should test all 32 cases for p as well as i as well as for the various p-like instructions in fingerprints, right? < 1236972814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean how does it work internally. < 1236972814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :32 cases for p? < 1236972817 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a text video-mode, you can just read the screen buffer. < 1236972830 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Yeah, it just reads the screen buffer... < 1236972835 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's interleaved [character, attributes, character, attributes, ...] list of bytes. < 1236972838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does QBasic run in text video mode? I'm not sure. < 1236972843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what do you mean 32 cases of p? < 1236972844 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it does. < 1236972845 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1236972847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK. < 1236972850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb ais523 < 1236972852 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aargh < 1236972855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1236972859 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems there's something wrong with the user switcher atm < 1236972861 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had to restart X < 1236972878 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Exaggeration; there are 9 cases < 1236972912 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a matter of reading from (short *)0xB8000... < 1236972914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, you mean, in bounds, and various out of bounds ways? < 1236972919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what? < 1236972922 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1236972969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well -1,-1 is much easier to get wrong indeed < 1236972985 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All that tests is that negative funge-space works < 1236972995 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume that people can get /positive/ funge-space to work... < 1236973004 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITYM "reading from b800:0000"; this is, after all, about DOS, so a segmented form of addressing is more appropriately crazy. < 1236973030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I wonder if you can get QBasic to "print" out its manual. To a PDF. < 1236973056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS addresses are so weird < 1236973065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, just doing code coverage analysis is interesting. With mycology + custom test cases I aim to manage 100% coverage* in the core of cfunge. Fingerprints too in the long run, but core first. < 1236973067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, can you actuallty type b800:0000 in a DOS C file? < 1236973079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 0xb8000000 < 1236973085 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, right; definitely b800. < 1236973091 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you generally have to cast it to a long pointer < 1236973095 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: No, that's the assembly notation. < 1236973103 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(char far*)0xb8000000 < 1236973105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1236973111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* 100% as defined by gcov and excluding any "fputs("The impossible happened. Internal error.\n", stderr); abort();" < 1236973117 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :far isn't part of standard C, but is defined in any good DOS header file < 1236973121 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works much the same way as const < 1236973122 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(char huge*)0xb800000 < 1236973132 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: More useful to be (short far*)0xb8000000, I'm pretty sure. < 1236973141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: short's only 16 bits < 1236973155 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1236973165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. What was the point of special "far pointers"? < 1236973171 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(void huge*) is somewhat amusing IMO < 1236973174 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also funny that in a that sort of system, 0xb8000010 and 0xb8010000 point to the same place but aren't the same pointer. < 1236973177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And why are they not used any longer in modern code. < 1236973192 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Far_pointer < 1236973199 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: A far pointer was a pointer outside of your current segment. < 1236973212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right. Flat address space :) < 1236973214 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because having two lengths of pointers was common in DOS < 1236973214 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're not used because nobody, and I mean *nobody* uses segmented addresses. < 1236973229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even with segmented addresses, they wouldn't be used nowadays because computers have lots of memory < 1236973235 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so making all pointers far would work fine < 1236973282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about speed? I guess you could fit more non-far pointers in cache than far pointers? < 1236973294 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be very slightly inefficient making all pointers far. < 1236973310 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd end up writing to cs every time you did a jump. ;) < 1236973315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how large are far/non-far pointers on x86? < 1236973331 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: far is 32 bits, near is 16 bits < 1236973334 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on your current execution mode. < 1236973340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in real mode, at least < 1236973355 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which used to be the only one available, but nothing but bootloaders use it nowadays < 1236973379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm. < 1236973382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, how do you terminate a QBASIC program? < 1236973391 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For protected 32-bit mode, double that... < 1236973404 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Ctrl+Break < 1236973407 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And for long mode, near is 64 bits and far doesn't exist. < 1236973416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where is break on the keyboard again? So I know what it's mapped to :P < 1236973417 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: run off the end of the program < 1236973421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, while it's running < 1236973422 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pause < 1236973423 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, break's normally control-pause < 1236973431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... and pause is where? :P < 1236973436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pressed F16 and that paused the program < 1236973438 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right of scroll lock :) < 1236973443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :near scroll-lock and sysrq, normally < 1236973446 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... F16?!? < 1236973446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You guys hate me. :) < 1236973453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Apple keyboard. < 1236973454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well amd64 has several addressing modes in fact. < 1236973460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though not near/far < 1236973466 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Segmented is not one of them. < 1236973470 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: there was huge as well as near and far < 1236973473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: See http://www.purelygadgets.co.uk/images/user/products/Apple-keyboard.jpg < 1236973473 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wouldn't protected-mode far pointers (not that I've seen any) be 48-bit instead of 64-bit? I mean, there's the 16-bit selector and 32-bit address. < 1236973476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huge is like far, but wraps properly < 1236973485 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: 32-bit selector. < 1236973492 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. with huge pointers, 0x3000ffff + 1 is 0x40000000 < 1236973510 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: No Num Lock? < 1236973511 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure the selector has 32 bits? I mean, physically speaking. I'm sure it could have in a pointer. < 1236973518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: None. The numpad always numbers. < 1236973526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Number is a verb, naturally. < 1236973527 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The selector is a pointer to the start of the segment. < 1236973532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, true. But then there are other things: RIP relative addressing, code model (small, medium, large and kernel) < 1236973540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and various other things < 1236973557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which IMO are about as strange. < 1236973574 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah, long mode is a bit strange. < 1236973580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, halp. < 1236973584 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: looking at that keyboard, I'd say F16 is the pause/break key < 1236973589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, f16 pauses < 1236973592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it's three keys to the right of f12 < 1236973594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, RIP relative *does* make sense though. Makes PIC code more efficient IIRC. < 1236973595 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But what is F13? < 1236973596 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does control-f16 do? < 1236973596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1236973598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmd-f16 pauses < 1236973602 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*f13 < 1236973605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It beeps. In my experience. < 1236973607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and control not cmd < 1236973611 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: How useful. < 1236973613 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sgapage.jpg < 1236973615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :F13 does nothing in boxr < 1236973617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*boxer < 1236973630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is more interesting is that AMD64 actually has a 48 bit address space. Sign extended. < 1236973641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, I froze it. < 1236973646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now the program thing says "QBASIC PAUSE". < 1236973648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with kernel living in the upper half, and user space in the lower. < 1236973657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pressing any key other than pause normally restarts it < 1236973657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 48 bits, sign extended to 64 bits < 1236973664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1236973667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not this time, ais523, I think DOSBox is paused < 1236973673 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1236973674 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's on current implementations. < 1236973705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reboots < 1236973778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Strings can't be longer than 32767 chars. < 1236973796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arrays cannot be longer than 64KB < 1236973806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, only 60 dimensions < 1236973814 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think even VB6 kept some of those restrictions < 1236973814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and you can't address 64KB< only 32767 < 1236973840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Max path size 127 chars < 1236973940 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those aren't such terrible limits. In C99 you can only count on having 65535 bytes in an object, for example. Or 4095 characters in a string literal. < 1236973941 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, arrays can only be one segment, strings have a signed size_t, and the max path size is, as in DOS, 8-bit signed. < 1236973962 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And 15 nesting levels of #include files, that's reasonably low too. < 1236973979 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to mention the "127 arguments in a function call", that's a limit I hit all the time! < 1236973999 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus, almost all of the limits of Qbasic are because it's a freaking 16-bit language. < 1236974026 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though why the size_t equivalent is *signed* is beyond me) < 1236974038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For cyclexa < 1236974052 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right. < 1236974065 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Real mode = screwy. < 1236974079 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: why did you just mention cyclexa? < 1236974083 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dim x(-10 to 10) as Integer < 1236974086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: < 1236974087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:53 pikhq: (though why the size_t equivalent is *signed* is beyond me) < 1236974088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that seems quite a non-sequitur < 1236974093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :neg strings < 1236974100 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Besides, if I'm reading this right, C99 might only allow 12-dimensional arrays; "12 pointer, array, and function declarators (in any combinations) modifying an arithmetic -- type in a declaration". < 1236974112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy shit, accessing the variable INKEY$ actually gives a prompt < 1236974113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's fucked < 1236974138 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seriously, yes < 1236974152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not a prompt < 1236974157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it puts it into hello i am listening to you mode < 1236974158 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The C99 limits list has a nice introduction: "The implementation shall be able to translate at least one program that contains at least one instance of every one of the following limits:" < 1236974163 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's one ugly program. < 1236974196 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm pretty sure those C99 limits are the minimums an implementation must support. < 1236974222 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect that most C implementations are limited by what the architecture they're on will allow. < 1236974245 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, but it's still an ugly program that contains one instance of all the limits. < 1236974265 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will have 63 levels of conditional inclusion, blocks nested 127 levels deep, 1023 members in a structure and so on. 4095-character lines. 127 arguments in one macro invocation. < 1236974274 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if someone's written one for compliance testing. < 1236974275 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's fugly. < 1236974311 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Does it specify anything for Unicode literals? < 1236974320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: someone must have done, surely < 1236974330 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's probably a 127-argument macro in boost somewhere, come to think of it < 1236974375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: That's on current implementations. <-- yes < 1236974385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10PRINTINKEY$:GOTO10 < 1236974397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw, you need a space. < 1236974398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRINT INKEY$ < 1236974415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, mine even says: "address sizes : 40 bits physical, 48 bits virtual". Not sure what that means. < 1236974419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well, 10 PRINT INKEY$: GOTO 10 < 1236974422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from /proc/cpuinfo < 1236974426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, that hangs. < 1236974433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh of course. < 1236974435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Make that INKEY$; < 1236974440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now how do I terminate... < 1236974450 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nowadays pointers used in applications nearly never correspond to the actual memory address in the RAM < 1236974451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, a server I sshed to has: "address sizes : 48 bits physical, 48 bits virtual" though < 1236974453 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Allows for up to 40 bits worth of physical RAM, and 48 bits worth of stuff mmapped. < 1236974459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, of course. < 1236974467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I know what paged memory is... < 1236974468 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's because of paging, of course. < 1236974479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so the pointer width of the RAM and the pointer width in executables need not be the same < 1236974492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agh. < 1236974495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must figure out how to terminate. < 1236974496 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Except that the architecture itself demands it. ;) < 1236974514 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well, the architecture demands 64 bits < 1236974524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the RAM is incapable of paying attention to all 64 bits < 1236974528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well duh. And then there is 32-bit mode under 64-bit too. < 1236974532 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oo, this Xeon box says: address sizes : 36 bits physical, 48 bits virtual -- tiny tiny 36-bit thing. < 1236974534 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :generally speaking, it'll pay attention to the top 1 bit, and the bottom n < 1236974535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is yet another thing < 1236974588 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Early Intel Xeons are the only ones restricted like that. < 1236974595 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236974659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm My mobo only supports 8 GB RAM though according to the manual. So I guess the "40 bits" is in the CPU, since the mobo limit is even lower. < 1236974665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Greh, I can't get this to terminate. < 1236974677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Btw, 8 GB ram on this would require 2 x 4 GB RAM sticks < 1236974682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since there are only two slots < 1236974682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agh, DOSBox paused. < 1236974685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do I undo that.. < 1236974686 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a function of the system bus, I'm pretty sure. < 1236974702 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And/or the memory bus. < 1236974806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Geee. < 1236974807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er. < 1236974808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grrrrr. < 1236975095 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, the news has become hard to tell apart from satire... < 1236975108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" 'This example requires a color graphics adapter. " < 1236975111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duuuude, I can't afford that. < 1236975112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1236975133 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Recently, a court ruled that the statement in a libel case being *true* is not a defense. < 1236975141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahaa < 1236975150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :USA, I assum < 1236975150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1236975154 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1236975162 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What other country would be *that* insane? < 1236975163 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: lol? < 1236975170 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's a valid defense then? < 1236975181 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The statement not being malicious. < 1236975184 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's *it*. < 1236975191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's hard to find a CGA graphics card nowadays... < 1236975197 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if modern cards can emulate it? < 1236975214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa. I just drew a fuckin' CGA triangle. < 1236975216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hardcore shit. < 1236975242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :drawing filled triangles was actually hardware-accelerated on the BBC Basic < 1236975249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCREEN 1 < 1236975255 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: VGA is a superset of CGA. < 1236975257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DRAW "C2F60L120E60BD30P1,2C3" < 1236975260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FUCK YEAH < 1236975264 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: How many million triangles it could fill in a second? < 1236975274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: probably about 0.00001 < 1236975285 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just because it was accelerated didn't mean it was fast < 1236975288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236975293 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could see the triangle fill if you watched really closely < 1236975296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, if you made most of your graphics as compositions of triangles < 1236975301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your game would be faster? :D < 1236975303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was a lot faster than doing it any other way < 1236975315 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yep, traditionally quadrilaterals were filled by filling two triangles < 1236975341 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's surprisingly modern, given that triangles is what they draw nowadays too. < 1236975375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Today on synchronicity, a friend just told me he's watching look around you because apparently it's good. < 1236975398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now more QBasic. < 1236975422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Omg. < 1236975425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look up the command "WAIT". < 1236975426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's select()! < 1236975470 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does QBasic get its multiple input sources from? < 1236975474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ports < 1236975568 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't use the HGA monochrome modes, you can use the 0xb0000-0xb7fff address range (in-between VGA's 0xa0000-0xaffff and the cga-compatible/color text mode 0xb8000-0xbffff) to other uses; for example with emm386.exe specifier like I=B000-B7FF. < 1236975598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLAY "L64ABCDEFGFEDCBA" ;BLEEPYEAOW < 1236975602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236975604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLAY "L64ABCDEFGFEDCBA" 'BLEEPYEAOW < 1236975698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, ? expands to PRINT> < 1236975907 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do have the quickbasic 4.5 compiler somewhere too, but that's not a legal thing to share. I'm pretty sure I don't even have it legalley. < 1236975945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a song: < 1236975948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N = 64 < 1236975962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO: PLAY "L"+STR$(N)+"ABCDEFGFEDCBA": N=N-1: LOOP WHILE INKEY$="" < 1236976133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the fuck < 1236976137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can get qbasic to CHECK TYPES < 1236976263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am playing DONKEY.BAS. < 1236976267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like the sfx. < 1236976349 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just received an email. There's a single part made out of ascii text, but it was sent with Content-Type "application/x-" so my mail client was a bit confused about it. < 1236976368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, ais523? < 1236976378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works if you comment out the DEF SEG : POKE 106,0 line < 1236976403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's a great content-type < 1236976508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cheats DONKEY.BAS < 1236976514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by making the donkey always go in the second lane < 1236976520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I think this actually checked collisions by if the pixels hit < 1236976523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of keeping track... < 1236976569 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :judicaster < 1236976590 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's funny how the qbasic help file has code examples with inline asm: http://zem.fi/~fis/code.txt < 1236976607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, you have a text copy? Gimme, I can't stand this interactive one :P < 1236976609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, that's awesome < 1236976613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, so awesome < 1236976625 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I thought it was inline machine code < 1236976635 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, the inline asm is just a comment. < 1236976735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION invents DONKEY.BAS variant: < 1236976738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Invisible Donkey.BAS < 1236976740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The donkeys are invisible. < 1236976752 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And, well, I decoded the hlp file with HELPMAKE, but the end result still has quite a lot of markup left: http://zem.fi/~fis/qh3.txt < 1236976771 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That one was converted through iconv -f cp437 -t utf-8, so the line-drawing characters are partially correct. < 1236976782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It's not the F1 so it works for me! < 1236976860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How to have INVISIBLE DONKEY.BAS: < 1236976864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Comment out line 81 < 1236976868 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All links seem to be formatted with ^Qfoo^P, and then there are .commands and :commands on a few lines, but other than that it's quite plaintext. The non-plaintext decoding output was all: \i^Q\a\pContents\v@L8002\v\i^P\p \i^Q\a\pIndex\v@L80b6\v\i^P\p \i^Q\a\pBack\v!B\v\i^P\p < 1236976926 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand, in that format you could then search for "context @L80b6" to find the linked-to thing. It's a tradeoff. < 1236976954 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I should write a Perl script to convert that to HTML. < 1236976964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be fairly easy < 1236976969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't do it i will :P < 1236976970 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't seem to be an especially difficult format after that helpmake. < 1236977008 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll do it. < 1236977081 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you might have to wait some hours; I'm the slow. < 1236977201 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@e-67.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1236977396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, you can't SLEEP for less than a second without PLAY, I think. < 1236977396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb-> < 1236977408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, TIMER < 1236977575 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you can do it by polling timer in a loop, I always used to < 1236977577 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's a busywait < 1236977585 0 :jix_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"..." < 1236977590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, note that a SLEEP ends if someone presses any key, including shift or control < 1236977972 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any smart guys here knows anything about A* and UCS? < 1236977987 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr: A* as in the search algorithm? < 1236977991 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1236978010 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've used it before, sort of < 1236978013 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but am not an expert on it < 1236978018 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've even coded it < 1236978019 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't know of UCS < 1236978021 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though poorly < 1236978032 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UCS is the Universal Character Set < 1236978059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, as in UCS-2 < 1236978065 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uniform-cost search :-) < 1236978069 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D'oh < 1236978078 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's a stupid question, but will A* and UCS always return the same shortest path? < 1236978098 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(when you trace the route back again) < 1236978100 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not < 1236978132 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there's more than one shortest path, the chosen one depends on the heuristic you use < 1236978163 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :CallForJudgement < 1236978172 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if there's only one, both of them will find it? < 1236978179 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but A* will probably find it faster? < 1236978181 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure < 1236978186 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, depends on your heuristic again :-P < 1236978191 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1236978197 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've just followed a crappy assignment one of my friend got < 1236978236 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm not very steady on this :P < 1236978253 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's quite fun < 1236978258 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doing it in Scheme :O < 1236979300 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I did at least most of the conversion: http://zem.fi/~fis/qb.html < 1236979323 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, there's an unterminated somewhere, I think. < 1236979329 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't look at it yet. :p < 1236979447 0 :judicaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.haskell.org/pipermail/haskell-cafe/2009-March/057590.html < 1236979459 0 :judicaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is my first public release of open source software. I have been working on this project since 2003. < 1236979465 0 :judicaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" < 1236979476 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. It's because the source file interleaves things. A pure translation would look like foobarbaz. It's horrid. < 1236979499 0 :judicaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% wc -l `find` 2>&1 | grep total < 1236979501 0 :judicaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 4496 total < 1236979505 0 :judicaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since 2003? really? < 1236979670 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION imagines it might have been on and off, like PSOX but worse < 1236979696 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes randomly mentioning PSOX.  < 1236979928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Judofyr < 1236979929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1236979931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :judicaster: < 1236979933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you new? :) < 1236979942 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ehird :-) < 1236979946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1236979953 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's it going? < 1236979966 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: are you new here? < 1236979983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:04 Judofyr: doing it in Scheme :O <-- nice < 1236979987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement: erm, no :P < 1236979997 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement: are you new here? < 1236980015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that thing doesn't link function names etc :( < 1236980018 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr: I'm older than judicaster, anyway < 1236980018 0 :judicaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr: are you new here? < 1236980029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, judicaster is comex. < 1236980032 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've actually bough SICP and The Little Schemer :D < 1236980037 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I haven't seen estoppel around here recently < 1236980038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the little schemer is great < 1236980059 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :judicaster: just idling for some months... < 1236980170 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I told you not to look, didn't I. < 1236980177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: sry :< < 1236980181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anyway, Hoefler Text is awesome, did I mention that? < 1236980219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1236980223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf on a pogo stick < 1236980225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mactex < 1236980226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is < 1236980227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1.2GB < 1236980231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's ZIPPED < 1236980235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the zipped installer < 1236980248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DON'T KNOW IF YOU NOTICED BUT I DO NOT THINK THAT REQUIRES 1.2GB < 1236980280 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What the fuck? < 1236980296 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, now the "unterminated " problem is fixed in that qb.html. < 1236980303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yeah, totally < 1236980322 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What else did you want? Does the original thing hyperlink function names, or was there just "look up function name under cursor" thing? < 1236980329 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For some inexplicable reason, MacTeX includes a number of GUI applications in addition to TeX Live. < 1236980334 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Ghostscript... < 1236980347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It was just the latter, but grepping for functions/commands and linking each occurance can't be hard < 1236980348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, there? < 1236980359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But 1.2GB? < 1236980361 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I can find a sensible table of the names in there. < 1236980366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My grandmother isn't 1.2GB. < 1236980367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er. < 1236980383 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Didn't OS X include Ghostscript as part of its CUPS implementation, anyways? < 1236980388 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: aye < 1236980388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie:

FOO Statement/Function

< 1236980389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, one thing you actually may want to test is UDP (SOCK_DGRAM) in SOCK. It seems like something that would actually be fairly important. < 1236980403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also FOO, BAR Statements/Functions < 1236980403 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really IMO. < 1236980414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then just link all UPPER CASE OCCURENCES < 1236980418 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, unless you're writing your own stack, there's not much to deal with. < 1236980425 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it's all just frontends to other functions basically < 1236980443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well it works differently than TCP. For example accept() doesn't make sense. And so on. < 1236980445 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I'll do something like that. Except that I have to do two passes then, now it's output-as-it-comes-in. < 1236980467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just make two scripts < 1236980467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236980470 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: But is there any code overhead in dealing with UDP specially? < 1236980488 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, there might be, I don't know jack about network programming < 1236980552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, a bit iirc, but since SOCK is defined to support it... I see I treat it specially in S but don't see any other special casing for it. < 1236980597 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My point is that unless it requires special code paths in the implementation it's probably not worth testing, especially since SOCK has a billion options to look for < 1236980608 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Hell, I even say at the beginning of SOCK that I'm only testing one thing... < 1236980642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, heh < 1236980649 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not so completely trivial, there's things like "RANDOMIZE Statement, RND Function". On the other hand, the function index has better-looking links. < 1236980687 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not going to distinguish between "KEY (Assignment) Statement" and "KEY (Event Trapping) Statement", though. < 1236980692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guys, do you want to be in: < 1236980707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anivers, Diavlo, Fertigo Pro, Fontin, Fontin Sans, Tallys, or Hoefler Text < 1236980710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In my IRC client.) < 1236980718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I just looked at my STRN. Wonder why G checks the funge space bounds rect.... < 1236980718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pick one and only one. :P < 1236980777 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because otherwise it can infinite loop < 1236980787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi, you're all in Fontin Sans 14pt. < 1236980798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal, I don't see any wrapping code there though... *looks again* < 1236980835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait right. if the entire line is all spaces < 1236980859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgur.com/6CED2.png < 1236980895 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's actually valid behaviour to infinitely loop in that case, but mycology kind of depends on it not doing that. < 1236980902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal, it could still happen. just write something to xmax,ymax, and to xmin,ymin. So bounds are entire funge space. < 1236980920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Azstal, well report it as a mycology bug to Deewiant < 1236980943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Via email! < 1236980946 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, I know, it's on my todo list to remove it < 1236980950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Deewiant: DON'T LISTEN) < 1236980959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(WE ARE DISCUSSING PRIVATE MATTERS) < 1236980959 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's one of those mycology_opinionated.b98 things < 1236980980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why do you have a bar code in the scrollbar... < 1236980992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Times when I have been highlighted. < 1236980998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236981005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice feature < 1236981027 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: nice. could you send me the theme? < 1236981035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr: http://julianstahnke.com/read/a_theme_for_limechat_colloquial/ < 1236981037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tada :-) < 1236981056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, :-) doesn't look too hot in Fontin Sans. < 1236981082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr: (BTW, I removed the bottom log by resizing it small ;)) < 1236981093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why to not use variable width on IRC: /msg nickserv help < 1236981103 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yeah, but you are just in #esoteric :P < 1236981104 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see the nice aligned table? < 1236981111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr: tru :P < 1236981113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if yes: congrats on using monospace < 1236981115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^ < 1236981123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, because I bring up that help screen daily and its nice alignment is vital—above everything else. < 1236981133 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1236981134 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"raise Hand, 'wave'" < 1236981136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Despite being readable even when not aligned. < 1236981148 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c0796BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1236981168 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://imgur.com/6CGOE.png < 1236981170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks fine to me. < 1236981212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, OS X has wikipedia built in < 1236981221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it looks way better aligned: http://paste.lisp.org/display/76982 < 1236981222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not exaggerating in any way at all < 1236981229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't really care... < 1236981235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1236981245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Open Dictionary, click "Wikipedia", enter search term. Voila.) < 1236981248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It even handles the infoboxes < 1236981258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... and user pages < 1236981391 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Now it generates hyperlinks. It's still not perfect (FOR...NEXT and things like that is not handled) but it's closer, anyway. < 1236981398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woo! < 1236981420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm < 1236981420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: < 1236981422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's repeated < 1236981424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first without monospace < 1236981425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then with < 1236981439 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see that. < 1236981449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1236981449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :

Type more than 65535 bytes

< 1236981451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :

< 1236981453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A user-defined data type cannot exceed 64K. < 1236981455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :

< 1236981457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1236981459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1236981461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qbasic help < 1236981463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1236981473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do. < 1236981493 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1236981494 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1236981497 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, whoops. < 1236981519 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There, now it's better. < 1236981536 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had my extra-linkifying loop print it out instead of modifying the @array, so there were two copies. < 1236981541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Programming task Keywords included in this list < 1236981541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ═════════════════════════════════ ═══════════════════════════════════════ < 1236981545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that space a bug? < 1236981553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : BASICA Statement QBasic Equivalent < 1236981553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ══════════════════ ═══════════════════════════════ < 1236981556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236981558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just misaligned < 1236981562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you should replace ═ with = < 1236981566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ─ with - < 1236981580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, possible mycology bug in TIME: It doesn't seem to check day of year with anything but local time. That could differ between local and utc output. < 1236981584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, GET and PUT aren't linked fizzie < 1236981597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also I may be reading the branch profiling info wrong. But this *does* seem to be the case. < 1236981616 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, it aligns just fine, otherwise that QBasic Equivalent "underline" wouldn't start at the right spot. < 1236981624 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Not really a bug. < 1236981631 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it doesn't check it in any case. < 1236981633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It does not for me. < 1236981634 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just outputs it. < 1236981649 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Well, then your "monospace" font isn't very monospace. < 1236981657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No unicode monospace font is. < 1236981658 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It aligns just fine in your IRC-paste too. :p < 1236981662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know this because I wanted one once. < 1236981672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well right. But the output will be wrong when UTC and local time are on different dates < 1236981676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TBH, < 1236981698 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, GET and PUT aren't linked because they're in the index twice, "GET (File I/O) Statement" and "GET (Graphics) Statement" and I can't know which one to link. < 1236981699 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: true true < 1236981717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you could output a disambig < 1236981723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e., you click it and get to a "DID YOU MEAN..." < 1236981729 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, right, sure. < 1236981731 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do that. :p < 1236981740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, gimme the source code & source file :P < 1236981743 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: meh, I prefer the "Spring Night" theme... < 1236981769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr: but black windows are ugly in OS X (due to window borders) :P < 1236981780 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: http://zem.fi/~fis/convert.pl and source.txt. Going away for a while, have fun with it. < 1236981784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay. < 1236981790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bye < 1236981839 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my Adium is black too... < 1236981913 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, is there any particular reason why ELF files have read-only data sections? Why not have constants where the executable code is? < 1236981962 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, I guess executable formats in general < 1236981994 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not every architecture can really comfortably address that place, that might be one reason. The possibility for making data non-executable might be other. < 1236982005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr < 1236982008 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you tell perl a file is in utf-8? < 1236982011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :source file < 1236982023 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just seems like it'd be a filesize optimization to leave out the extra headers < 1236982024 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"use utf8;" or something like that. < 1236982051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't use it if I could figure out the codepoint of these chars :P < 1236982059 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I guess the compiler should be reasonably sure that the code it generated won't accidentally jump into the data parts :-P < 1236982089 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You could just instruct your compiler to put all the constants in the .text section. < 1236982119 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, you don't actually have to have more than one section in an ELF file, I guess. < 1236982124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : # transform links... we shunt commands outside links for maximum sillitude... < 1236982126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an impressive comment < 1236982140 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Which is why I'm wondering why compilers make multiple sections at all < 1236982171 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Because architectures have more than one kind of memory, and/or they want to set access flags separately for different stuff. < 1236982220 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: And my point is, the compiler knows the architecture, so it should know in the case of x86 that it doesn't matter, and it knows the code it generated so it can ignore access flags < 1236982221 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, take some Harvard architecture machine, it has completely separate code and data memories. < 1236982234 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, *that* might be just historical inertia. < 1236982242 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if you're compiling an x86 binary it won't run on a Harvard architecture machine. :-P < 1236982272 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One thing that came to mind is that due to linkers and no full-program analysis, I guess it actually doesn't know for sure what code is in the final program < 1236982283 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're compiling C, you can't really be sure you won't jump into your read-only data at some point, and it might therefore be prudent to keep it non-executable. < 1236982284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/NOHI] [[/RUN] sou < 1236982285 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is why it sets the sections to non-executable for safety < 1236982286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to fix < 1236982323 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's certainly possible to compile C into Harvard architecture machines < 1236982332 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc-bf's Harvard architecture, for instance < 1236982344 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I don't think anyone was questioning that. < 1236982406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236982410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you say not in perl regexps? < 1236982412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(?!foo)? < 1236982438 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a negative look-ahead thing, yes. < 1236982456 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: let me find an example, you can do it Prolog-style < 1236982458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't seem to work, unfortunately < 1236982466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : $line =~ s/\b(?!\/)([A-Z\$]+)/extralink($1)/ge < 1236982466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : unless $line =~ / I mean, you don't actually have to have more than one section in an ELF file, I guess. <-- Hm I think you will need more than one in fact.. < 1236982478 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(*COMMIT)(*F)| at the end of the regex works < 1236982488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236982489 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like the prolog definition of not, almost exactly < 1236982491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm basically trying to say "that, but not with a / in front" < 1236982492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, at least 2 < 1236982503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since first section must be a NULL one < 1236982503 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: oh, that's negative look/behind/ you need < 1236982510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to spec < 1236982511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's "not" to me :P < 1236982513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"not a /" < 1236982519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess NULL and .text might work < 1236982526 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: there's more than one sort of not in a regex < 1236982532 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[^/]foo almost works < 1236982542 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's "foo preceded by a character that is not a /" < 1236982555 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't allow for a foo at the beginning of the string < 1236982576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure though < 1236982583 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^[^/]?foo < 1236982586 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should work alright? < 1236982598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, yes < 1236982602 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no < 1236982604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that allows for / < 1236982607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1236982608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm, nope < 1236982617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. < 1236982619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That breaks things. < 1236982620 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Are you sure? The canonical http://www.muppetlabs.com/~breadbox/software/tiny/teensy.html has 1 in the shnum field. < 1236982622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess no, < 1236982639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that isn't a valid ELF file < 1236982642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it relies on linux's handling < 1236982643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as they said < 1236982664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I'm pretty sure. I remember reading some mail about it on the gnu binutils mailing list. < 1236982744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, anyway without separate data section you need to allocate any read-write vars on stack or heap < 1236982762 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I think Deewiant was just complaining about .rodata. < 1236982772 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what's that null section about, then? I mean, it's not anything objdump shows, no? < 1236982830 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently not, but readelf lists it. Anyway, why is it there? < 1236982900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway .rodata is useful for NX < 1236982923 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I question how that is 'useful' < 1236982923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, as for why: all I remember was that specs required it < 1236982943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, um? You suggest NX is useless? < 1236982947 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Oh, and (fixed-width-only) negative lookbehind is (?. < 1236984515 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: In any case you don't need mprotect since you can make a different RWE section and just jump to that at the start of execution in the RE < 1236984532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, Yep you can. Both with and without NX. < 1236984535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your point? < 1236984552 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My point is you don't need mprotect, which you said one does. < 1236984604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1236984616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you switch DOS into the highest video mode? < 1236984620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumably writing to some address. < 1236984625 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vga or svga? < 1236984627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well you need either mprotect() or change the section flags in the executable. Right < 1236984634 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCREEN 12 is the traditional method in QBasic < 1236984648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: SVGA, since it's higher resolution. < 1236984654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm I wonder. Does WXSVGA exist? < 1236984654 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236984661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, hi mad. haven't seen you before. < 1236984667 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mode 13h! < 1236984670 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: then the easiest method is a library < 1236984674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, duh. He joined half a screen back. < 1236984678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: o :P < 1236984683 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I'm new :D < 1236984694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: ah, to hell with that, QBasic and libraries is like... like... like QBasic and libraries. < 1236984709 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: what brings you here? < 1236984712 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in qbasic? heh < 1236984725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: Yeah, I'm playing with dosbox < 1236984727 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1236984730 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sb < 1236984732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad, we usually don't do DOS stuff. We do things in Brainf*ck, Befunge, INTERCAL and such usually. < 1236984742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just so you don't get the wrong impression. < 1236984744 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I know < 1236984749 0 :M0ny!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-93-123.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236984762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think that's blatantly obvious. < 1236984763 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did a couple attempts at esoteric languages < 1236984769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, we're more offtopic than on... < 1236984773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well not from topic, Not from the convo right no < 1236984776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now* < 1236984783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but, the name is #esoteric, see. :P < 1236984785 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah with qbasic your best luck is probably 640x480 < 1236984789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mm < 1236984799 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, we spend most of our time offtopic < 1236984800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, what about those persons wondering about new age stuff or whatever it is < 1236984803 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ontopic is better IMO < 1236984805 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe you can hack it a bit to get it to 720x512 but probably not much more :D < 1236984809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they misunderstood what type of esoteric < 1236984813 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a .bas file for doing svga graphics, though. < 1236984815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement: that's what I said < 1236984817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more offtopic than on < 1236984821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: he said programming, so. :P < 1236984826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well right < 1236984831 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, most of the time is taken up with ehird and AnMaster arguing < 1236984835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1236984838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1236984846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ■ activepage% The screen page that text or graphics output writes to. < 1236984846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ■ visualpage% The screen page that is currently displayed on your < 1236984847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : screen. < 1236984851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fun. < 1236984860 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have great fun double-buffering with those < 1236984865 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but most of the good video modes don't support it < 1236984867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, didn't your stats show ehird was the most active one? < 1236984871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and was I number two or? < 1236984883 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you remove arguments between you too, though, you're about #102 and #105 < 1236984888 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*you two < 1236984890 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Right. < 1236984894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1236984902 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe the SVGA library was for quickbasic 4.5 only. Hmm. < 1236984904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement: Actually, it's mostly my pastes and multiline stuff that make me high < 1236984906 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah a lot of those modes are kinda blah < 1236984908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, higher. Not, you know, high. < 1236984913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because, drugs are bad, mmkay. < 1236984940 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cga? more like suck g a :D < 1236984972 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Here's a SVGA tutorial for you, treating QBasic in addition to QuickBasic: http://www.petesqbsite.com/sections/tutorials/zines/qbtm/1-svga.html < 1236984986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going for vga for simplicity < 1236984991 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would, too. < 1236984994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh WQUXGA < 1236984999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that exists it seems < 1236985010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Wide Quad Ultra Extended Graphics Array" < 1236985013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WQXGA is often found in 30" displays like the Dell 3008WFP and the Apple Cinema Display. < 1236985014 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I distinctly remember seeing a rather featureful svga library for either qbasic or quickbasic. < 1236985016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/QXGA#WQUXGA < 1236985018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just 2560x1600 < 1236985021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not insanely large < 1236985027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, WQXGA != WQUXGA < 1236985031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1236985032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1236985044 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :svga is doable in djgpp < 1236985055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WQUXGA: 3840 x 2400 < 1236985055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yikes, colour attributes are scary < 1236985058 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and doable as in practical < 1236985063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is 16:10 < 1236985070 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :color attributes? < 1236985072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's really irritating that QBASIC reformats your code to be less ugly. < 1236985075 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1236985076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: http://zem.fi/~fis/qb.html#QEw4MDUw < 1236985100 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a trick for that < 1236985114 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just overwrite the palette < 1236985135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cute < 1236985157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236985160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mode 13 seems the best < 1236985161 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the fun is that in addition to NOT, AND, OR, XOR QBasic also has the EQV and IMP (equivalence, implication) bitwise ops. < 1236985164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you get 256 colours < 1236985173 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah mode 13 is the best for games < 1236985175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the res is tiny on this screen ofc < 1236985190 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Admittedly "a EQV b" is just "NOT (a XOR b)" and so on, but it's there. < 1236985215 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though with some palette editing you can make 16 color modes look good, which is nice < 1236985225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: you still only get 16 cols :-) < 1236985240 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yeah :D < 1236985254 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but some games do well with that < 1236985271 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duke nukem 2, metal gear 2, hmm < 1236985271 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On Real Computers, you could just do palette reprogramming during the hblank period and get 16 different colors for each line. < 1236985291 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: except the ibm PC isn't a real computer :D < 1236985302 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, it's a business machine. < 1236985325 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PCs aren't for doing hdma tricks < 1236985331 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what amigas are for < 1236985408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PLAY "T255P64" <-- shortest pause you can get without silly timer hax < 1236985418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hdma? < 1236985428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does the extra h on DMA mean there? < 1236985445 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :horizontal blank dma < 1236985464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see. And what does that actually mean? < 1236985467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still need to figure out how to terminate this program < 1236985471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no break key :( < 1236985472 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's specific to snes technically but in general it refers to effects where you alter registers between lines < 1236985486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, where did you find qbasic btw? < 1236985490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: logs. < 1236985500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :greh < 1236985501 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I mean, download url? < 1236985503 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's common on 16 bit platforms except PC and mac < 1236985507 0 :jc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolqbasic < 1236985512 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Peace and Protection 4.22.2" < 1236985514 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's possibly from my dos 6.21 installation floppy. < 1236985519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236985519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236985527 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, just the help file was? < 1236985530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ya < 1236985615 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Since you usually care about legalities (I guess?), ais523 linked to http://download.microsoft.com/download/win95upg/tool_s/1.0/w95/en-us/olddos.exe which you can run in dosbox. < 1236985632 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I'm quite sure my qbasic.exe has pretty much the same bits. < 1236985642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, mhm < 1236985655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah I tend to be careful. < 1236985663 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1236985666 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that should expand to various "old DOS utilities". < 1236985686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone here good at perl? Need to test something for the PERL fingerprint in cfunge... < 1236985692 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty good at Perl < 1236985696 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what in particular do you need? < 1236985719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement, I don't know perl at all. Something like a for loop. To output 5932 bytes < 1236985719 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm reasonably good at writing messy Perl. < 1236985724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just use x or whatever < 1236985751 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The expression "x" x 5932 evalutes to a 5932-byte string. < 1236985761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the perl equivalent of: for (i=0;i<5932;i++) putchar('x'); < 1236985764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what I need basically < 1236985767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236985773 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's print "x" x 5932; < 1236985788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1236985789 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x = 5932; print "x" x x; < 1236985800 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D'oh, sigils < 1236985809 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also print "x" foreach (0 .. 5931); if you want to be more form-conformant. < 1236985811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that would be less confusing with something else than x I guess < 1236985817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$x=5932;$X="x";print $X x $x < 1236985824 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in python it's print "x" * 5932 < 1236985827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$x=5932;$X=x;print $X x $x < 1236985828 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's just because python is sane < 1236985836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ■ STATIC Specifies that the values of the SUB procedure's < 1236985836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : local variables are saved between function calls. < 1236985840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a modifier ON THE FUNCTION < 1236985841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CallForJudgement: WTF. < 1236985851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236985854 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: heh < 1236985862 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, just be happy it actually has functions, and local variables. < 1236985864 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Use ẋ or something instead of X < 1236985870 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's quite a fancy-schmanzy schnitzel. < 1236985873 0 :CallForJudgement!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523 < 1236985877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in an eval() context. So eval returns that many x. < 1236985881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would it be then? < 1236985887 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"x" x 5932 < 1236985888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'x' x 5932 < 1236985890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1236985895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SUB count STATIC < 1236985897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :count = 0 < 1236985899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :count = count + 1 < 1236985900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RETURN count < 1236985900 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think GW-BASIC did local variables. It might've done GOSUB, though. < 1236985901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :END SUB < 1236985926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1236985931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, wait < 1236985935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RETURN isn't a valuey thingy < 1236985936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why doesn't this work: perl -e 'print eval("x" x 5932)' < 1236985937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need a function < 1236985937 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It's not restricted as a function attribute, though: "STATIC makes a variable local to a function or procedure and preserves its value between calls." < 1236985942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because that evaluates < 1236985943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx < 1236985946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of returning xxxxxxxxxxxxxx < 1236985948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should do < 1236985952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eval('"x" x 5932') < 1236985953 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the stone age basics had gosub yeah < 1236985954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, right < 1236985955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now I doubt your coding ability... < 1236985959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/flamebait < 1236985971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I don't know perl indeed. < 1236986005 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you need eval in order to print lots of xs? < 1236986005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that I admit. I just try to conform to the rather weird PERL fingerprint spec. And found a bug in handling long results... < 1236986060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, look at PERL spec < 1236986065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear < 1236986068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://catseye.tc/projects/funge98/library/PERL.html < 1236986070 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But seriously, why can't qbasic do a simple "GOTO $var"? (Alternatively: how can it do that?) < 1236986072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :E ('Eval') pops a 0gnirts string and performs a Perl eval() on it, possibly (or not) shelling Perl as indicated by S above. The result of the call is pushed as a 0gnirts string back onto the stack. < 1236986081 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you can use SELECT CASE < 1236986083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: GOTO var? < 1236986086 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is basically switch() from C < 1236986102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you can GOTO label < 1236986104 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I mean GOTO var$. Or is it var%? I don't remember them sigils either. < 1236986109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that means I ended up (with the help of Deewiant and someone else in here, forgot who) with: execv() on "perl" "-e" "open(CFUNGE_REALERR, \">&STDERR\"); open(STDERR, \">&STDOUT\"); print CFUNGE_REALERR eval($ARGV[0])" < 1236986111 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I want a computed goto. < 1236986115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: QBasic sigils are weird < 1236986117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, use a switch < 1236986118 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: fizzie < 1236986123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it him? ok < 1236986126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, $ = string, % = integer < 1236986130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing = same as % < 1236986136 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that looks about right < 1236986140 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it have some float too? < 1236986152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think so < 1236986158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway I found a bug in my handling of reading back really long results. < 1236986159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :data-type suffix (%, &, !, #, or $). < 1236986169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : +-------------------------Data-Type Suffixes--------------------------+ < 1236986169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : │ ! Single-precision % Integer │ < 1236986170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : │ # Double-precision & Long-integer │ < 1236986172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : │ $ String │ < 1236986174 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : +---------------------------------------------------------------------+ < 1236986177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, #. < 1236986190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& is a whopping THIRTY TWO BITS < 1236986215 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the point of ! :D < 1236986223 0 :M0ny!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-93-123.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1236986256 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Do you mean "use SELECT CASE" as in "write your whole program as "SELECT CASE a% CASE 1 ..." and use "a% = 42; " for control flow"? < 1236986265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: stores 7 digits after the decimal point < 1236986267 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well, why are you doing control flow like that, anyway? < 1236986274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was assuming you'd only be jumping to one of a set few lines anyway < 1236986283 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yeah but you can use # instead :D < 1236986290 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I was just thinking of ehird's "Objective QBasic" thing. < 1236986292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: Think of the RAM! < 1236986304 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, i know < 1236986304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have like 1MB. < 1236986304 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1236986304 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm not actually doing anything. < 1236986304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236986304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: eek :D < 1236986304 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, conventional ram :D < 1236986709 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And more like 64k often :D < 1236986709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hee < 1236986709 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1236986709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who needs C when you have qbasic < 1236986709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236986709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, do you remember off the top of your head which value to y returns stack size? < 1236986709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(int*)1234=5; < 1236986709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :POKE1234,5 < 1236986709 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but you can have TURBO C :D < 1236986709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WINNER: QBASIC < 1236986709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: I HAD A TURBO BUTTON ON MY PC! It didn't do a thing. < 1236986709 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nope < 1236986709 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: What a crap PC < 1236986709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: :< < 1236986709 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from like some 386s on it did like nothing :D < 1236986709 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turbo buttons should always do something < 1236986709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y u insult my pc < 1236986709 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: course it did, it slowed down the PC when you turned it off < 1236986709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1236986709 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, exactly < 1236986709 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they were designed so you could play old games which used loops for delays < 1236986709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1236986709 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because even if you ran stuff at 7mhz it's still going to be ridiculously fast on a 486 no matter what < 1236986709 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And they worked well < 1236986709 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why have a slow down button when you can have a speed up button? < 1236986709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always thought it was a go faster button < 1236986709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in < 1236986709 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it is < 1236986709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can only use half your CPU and RAM < 1236986709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :until you press TURBO < 1236986709 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My router box used to be in a case that had a spare TURBO BUTTON, but I couldn't figure out any nifty thing to connect it to. < 1236986710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, I'ma write a sierpinski drawer. Should be trivial. < 1236986710 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not to mention a pentium which is probably going to be able to stuff the whole program in its CACHE < 1236986710 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then pair instructions to do 2 instructions per cycle :D < 1236986710 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server" < 1236986710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1236986710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QBasic has no bitwise operators? :-S < 1236986710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1236986710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're its boolean operators < 1236986710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1236986710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happened if you pressed turbo while the computer was running? < 1236986710 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it crashed < 1236986710 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. And there's even EQV and IMP there. < 1236986710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236986710 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know, I've done that once < 1236986710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You became a COOL DUDE. < 1236986711 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? My turbo button worked when the machine was on < 1236986728 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or alternatively it did nothing, it's been a long time < 1236986732 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it certainly didn't crash anything < 1236986745 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I used to have a 386 that had a manufacturer-specific "TURBO COMMAND"; a DOS command that could be used to switch between 8 MHz and 16 MHz mode. < 1236986752 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On-the-fly, even. < 1236986761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1236986803 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also http://zem.fi/~fis/qbu.html has the qbasic manual with those utf-8 line-drawing characters, for people who prefer that and happen to have a font and system where things align correctly with it. < 1236986818 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PICs can be switched from their default 4 MHz (= 1 MIPS) down to about 75 kHz < 1236986821 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a sort of power-saving mode < 1236986846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Modern CPUs can change freq too < 1236986850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for power saving < 1236986864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like my sempron, 1 GHz, 1.5 GHz or 2 GHz < 1236986872 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C128 can be switched from the default 1 MHz mode into a faster 2 MHz mode, but then the VIC-II chip drops offline, and you have to use the 80-column screen which has a different display controller. < 1236986878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/,/:/ < 1236986879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIM A(640,480) gives me subscript out of bounds < 1236986888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? ais523? < 1236986895 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because qbasic can't allocate a lot of memory < 1236986902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not a lot ... < 1236986903 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: heh, that's... not nice < 1236986932 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :640*480!? That's over nine thous.. I mean, 307200. That amount of integers wouldn't fit in any sort of memory. < 1236986937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236986942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it fits in video memory! < 1236986963 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really, you only have four bits per pixel there. < 1236986968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. True da.t < 1236986973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, 307200 is almost half of memory < 1236986977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just, using LINE on the fly was really slow. < 1236986979 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS only supports 640K, remember < 1236986980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in one pixel per second. < 1236986993 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can POKE in the video memory, though. < 1236987003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, allocate it in hi memory? extended memory? or whatever < 1236987011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in BASIC? < 1236987017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can POKE anywhere in BASIC < 1236987020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well can't you POKE to do that? < 1236987021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yeah, 'cept I don't know the format of the values < 1236987023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that was @AnMaster < 1236987024 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah but qbasic probably can't handle >16bit pointers < 1236987037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1236987039 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It's just "two nybbles in each byte give two adjacent pixels". < 1236987045 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why people usually switch to djgpp :D < 1236987049 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: it can < 1236987050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: and what is a pixel in that case? < 1236987051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEF SEG < 1236987056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use one of those "memory optimizer" to move stuff out of the memory you can use then < 1236987067 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff = malloc(20000000); < 1236987071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's the address of video memory, anyhoo? < 1236987073 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually WORKS in djgpp :D < 1236987075 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You do need to DEF SEG = &HA000. < 1236987075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember some tool that messed with config.sys and autoexec.bad < 1236987077 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0xa0000 < 1236987079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bat* < 1236987081 0 :psygnisfive!n=psygnisf@c-71-57-164-119.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236987089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to free low low memory < 1236987118 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236987118 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you can just POKE in there, and the address given in POKE is directly an offset to the screen buffer. < 1236987123 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :video mem address depends on video mode < 1236987124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Still slow; as in it's taking many many seconds. I wonder if I have a bug. < 1236987132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe it crashed. < 1236987138 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in 256 color mode it's 0xa0000 < 1236987148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1236987150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was using SCREEN 1. < 1236987162 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12 always used to be my favourite < 1236987169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how many FPS? < 1236987171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but I'm just doing a b/w sierpinski :P < 1236987175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't know < 1236987206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1236987214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, tell me when/if you find out < 1236987222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it terminated. < 1236987229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I'm just looping over the 320,200 display. < 1236987233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see how I can get any faster. < 1236987264 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember doing some comprehensive qbasic putpixel benchmarking, and there were at least five methods. < 1236987267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess sierpinski is just way beyond DOS's ability. < 1236987305 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: unless it's 3d bit dos < 1236987312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3 DIMENSIONAL BIT DOS?! < 1236987317 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1236987321 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, voxel bits < 1236987328 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :voxbits < 1236987330 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could almost call it voxel-perfect < 1236987330 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can write your sierpinski to file and the BLOAD it directly on top of the display memory. That gives you a fast blit. Unfortunately you need to precalc the file. < 1236987369 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :use putpixel + recursive function? < 1236987371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Text mode sierpinski works :P < 1236987386 0 :neldoreth!n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth JOIN :#esoteric < 1236987415 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, I think POKE 320*y+x was a lot faster than any LINE (x, y)-(x, y) style thing. < 1236987422 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or PSET. < 1236987433 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although PSET at least wasn't many magnitudes slower. < 1236987436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : you could almost call it voxel-perfect <-- that does sound strangely familiar..... But I can't identify it < 1236987449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;_; AnMasterrrrrrrrrrr < 1236987456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: esolangs.org = esoteric.voxelperfect.net < 1236987460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1236987462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1236987470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I use the first url to access < 1236987478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. There seems to be some algorithmic problem. < 1236987486 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just explaining where the reference came from < 1236987509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also you could do sierpinski in dos. Ever seen some of those DOS demos? < 1236987520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: And what are they written in? < 1236987521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assembly. < 1236987523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what am I using? < 1236987525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QBasic. < 1236987528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what is QBasic? < 1236987531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right true < 1236987532 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bloated < 1236987532 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there are QBasic demos. < 1236987533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An interpreter, probably written in C. < 1236987536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Totally unoptimized, to boot. < 1236987541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, can't you compile qbasic? < 1236987549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using QuickBASIC. < 1236987551 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I heard there was a compiler < 1236987551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which I don't have. < 1236987552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236987558 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QuickBasic is commercial, non-free. < 1236987566 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can switch to the next bigger thing < 1236987567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1236987567 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it doesn't really generate very fast code. < 1236987571 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TURBO PASCAL :D < 1236987582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad, I think I have a copy of that < 1236987583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact < 1236987594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure where < 1236987608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I think it was TURBO PASCAL for windows or something even. < 1236987625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe not < 1236987637 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or you can switch to the next smaller thing, debug.com. < 1236987638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't remember. Too long ago < 1236987652 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've written a short game for dos < 1236987655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmm. < 1236987660 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was with libraries < 1236987667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway, when you find out frame rate: tell me < 1236987669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Question. < 1236987672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A bunch of PRINT "x"; < 1236987674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in succession < 1236987677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will output nothing but xs < 1236987678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1236987684 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who knows < 1236987703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an unfair comparsion: glxgears on my GPU gives me: 38952 frames in 5.0 seconds = 7790.366 FPS. And that is with 2xAA... < 1236987705 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think basic probably tacks on a line end and you have to supress it or something < 1236987710 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, as long as you don't forget the ; there. < 1236987715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mad: thus the ; < 1236987716 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the line-suppression thing. < 1236987721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: frame rate of what < 1236987739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, just drawing a single colour over the screen in a loop? < 1236987739 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A , would start at the "next print zone", and "print zones are 14 characters wide". That's very out-of-nowhere. < 1236987752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 10FPS < 1236987753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or so < 1236987756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, heh < 1236987760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1236987769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It takes about 7 seconds to display 256 colour bands < 1236987779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno < 1236987780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow that is slow < 1236987787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1236987798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, for dosbox it should be possible to tune the speed iirc < 1236987812 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Look, it's a lot faster than the TI-BASIC in my calculator, so just stop complaining about the speed. < 1236987816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLS < 1236987816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOR Y = 0 TO 15 < 1236987817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOR X = 0 TO 15 < 1236987819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y1 = 15 - Y < 1236987821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IF (X AND Y1) = 0 THEN PRINT "*"; ELSE PRINT " "; < 1236987823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEXT X < 1236987825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRINT < 1236987827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEXT Y < 1236987835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Renders a sierpinski triangle of 16x16 in about 0.7 seconds. < 1236987844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can watch it draw. < 1236987861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now to try and center it. < 1236987944 0 :jc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: this < 1236987950 0 :jc!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TI-Basic is so ridiculously slow < 1236987951 0 :jc!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :comex < 1236987962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah well your butt is ridiculously slow if you know what i mean. < 1236987973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone show http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/shortsharpscience/2009/03/how-moores-law-saved-the-web.html to zzo38 < 1236987974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Look, it's a lot faster than the TI-BASIC in my calculator, so just stop complaining about the speed. <-- Remember that FOR loops after faster than WHILE in TI-BASIC < 1236988008 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all good TI-Basic programs start with AsmPrgm < 1236988028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex, how does that work. I don't remember? < 1236988040 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to type in z80 opcodes as hex < 1236988043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CLS < 1236988043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOR Y = 0 TO 15 < 1236988044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Y1 = 15 - Y < 1236988046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOR I = 1 TO Y1 < 1236988047 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(thus 'asm' is somwhat misleading...) < 1236988048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRINT " "; < 1236988050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEXT I < 1236988052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex, oh I see < 1236988052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOR X = 0 TO 15 < 1236988054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IF (X AND Y1) = 0 THEN PRINT "**"; ELSE PRINT " "; < 1236988056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEXT X < 1236988058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRINT < 1236988059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could hand type it on the calculator? < 1236988060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEXT Y < 1236988062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :centered. < 1236988064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also optimmized. < 1236988066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now it takes 0.3s < 1236988073 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a packet with a list of z80 opcodes < 1236988075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think there was a faster way than = 0 < 1236988088 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sometimes when I'm feeling masochistic I make programs < 1236988089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in IF that is < 1236988121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not() should be faster. At least on TI-83+ < 1236988124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what I have < 1236988143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is on DOS :P < 1236988146 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this < 1236988146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236988147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, I need to check 0 < 1236988150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT() checks for -1 or something < 1236988154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't output right in any case < 1236988163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I meant on TI-83+ < 1236988169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1236988177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, now to make it do it SEXTUALLY < 1236988181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By which I mean graphically < 1236988184 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1236988209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what was your POKE gfx magick? < 1236988219 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-027-168.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1236988229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, scrollback? < 1236988233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah POKE 320*y+x < 1236988268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what mode was that for? < 1236988269 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which DEF SEG is that in? < 1236988313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll just use pset < 1236988314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1236988377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1236988380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :illegal function call on an if < 1236988383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it is complaining ab- < 1236988384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1236988393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pset without screen < 1236988410 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236988413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, or not. < 1236988432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders < 1236988436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IF (X AND Y1) = 0 THEN PSET (X, Y) < 1236988438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's invalid? < 1236988466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6145 output chars vs 5932 < 1236988471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't match at all < 1236988525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right indeed. < 1236988528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a bug < 1236988531 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, as I said you need a DEF SEG = &HA000 in order for the poke to work. < 1236988541 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's for mode 13h, the 320x200 VGA 256-color mode. < 1236988543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using PSET. < 1236988546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not DEF SEG> < 1236988569 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you like. It might even be faster with PSET if you need to do the y*320+x operation. < 1236988590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agh < 1236988593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my program is running in step mode < 1236988595 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since concievably it might be written in C or whatever then, not done with QBasic code. < 1236988595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do I undo that : < 1236988597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::\ < 1236988608 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember anything about the UI. < 1236988624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, read docs? < 1236988629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I did. < 1236988633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Woo, my sierpinskigfx work < 1236988645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1236988654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Albeit sloooowly. < 1236988660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, screenshot? < 1236988672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also for dosbox you can increase simulation speed < 1236988677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some option somewhere < 1236988690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The slowness is AUTHENTIC. < 1236988695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, what is the difference between dosbox and doxemu? < 1236988696 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236988702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dosbox emulates DOS, not a cpu < 1236988703 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dosemu* < 1236988707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236988712 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION memorizes all of pi in binary < 1236988712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er oh < 1236988714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought you said qemu < 1236988720 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty easy. < 1236988723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why is the second called dosemu? < 1236988726 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1100111110000000 < 1236988729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it emulates dos < 1236988744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what is the difference? Which is best? < 1236988749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dosbox or dosemu? < 1236988749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: so, what IS it that makes BASIC so damn slow? < 1236988753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dosemu only runs on linux < 1236988759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but iirc its emulation is more "authentic" < 1236988765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1236988767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and dosemu lets you copy/paste from-to dos < 1236988769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently < 1236988775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds useful < 1236988781 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dosemu uses the vm86 syscall to run DOS "natively" on linux. < 1236988783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the linux requirement is hardly an issue < 1236988795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you use something else. < 1236988797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like me < 1236988800 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course any interesting program I've tried hasn't really worked well on dosemu. < 1236988800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, um. Yet it is available on x86_64? How is that possible < 1236988809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc long mode prevents vm86() < 1236988851 0 :cherez!n=cherez@69.76.143.134 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236988865 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1236988872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least virtual 8086 mode is not available even from 32-bit compat mode under long mode according to AMD docs iirc < 1236988896 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't do it, I don't know how it works. But the vm86 trick is what it used to do, anyway. < 1236988903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1236988937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway thanks to recent coverage analysis I have found two real bugs in cfunge. + a lot of stuff mycology doesn't test. Now to debug those bugs... < 1236988939 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :While dosbox actually emulates a CPU too. < 1236988975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This performance is ridiculous. < 1236988994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1236989003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like really ridiculous. < 1236989011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see the line go from the left to the right of the screen. < 1236989015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, rewrite it in ASM < 1236989016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And it's drawing top-down!) < 1236989018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: NO NO NO < 1236989024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not? < 1236989028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO < 1236989030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAD AnMaster!! < 1236989033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1236989040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEACUSE I HAVE _SOME_ SANITY < 1236989047 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On x86, dosbox also has some "dynamic instruction translation" option, which is faster but less accurate. < 1236989056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh shit, this is going to go further than the video memory < 1236989058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ok then. POKE machine code somewhere, then jump to that < 1236989058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WILL IT CRASH?! WHO KNOWS < 1236989059 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1236989063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's actually in the docs. < 1236989068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what?! < 1236989071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1236989075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1236989085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: where is it again? < 1236989085 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Didn't you see my copy-paste. The help file has some inline machine code examples. < 1236989090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236989096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, must have missed that < 1236989099 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zem.fi/~fis/qbu.html#QEw4MDhh < 1236989103 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The CALL ABSOLUTE statement. < 1236989143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the calling convention < 1236989146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can return and such < 1236989155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Holy shit. < 1236989159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :H o l y s h i t < 1236989161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I crashed dosbox < 1236989162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not even cleanly < 1236989164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err < 1236989164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just exited < 1236989166 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You do a RETF when you want to return. < 1236989166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1236989170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wanna know how? < 1236989172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CALL ABSOLUTE(0) < 1236989176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1236989176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*BOOM* < 1236989188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, segfault? < 1236989192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno < 1236989195 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can't return any values or anything. < 1236989212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Example: < 1236989212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : PRINT "Game over." < 1236989214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : END < 1236989215 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course you can manipulate the memory allocated for some BASIC variable if you want to return something. < 1236989215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I mean it is possible the memory at 0 could have contained something to stop the machine < 1236989216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's so depressing. < 1236989218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HLT or whatever < 1236989225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, the memory at 0 contains nothing, AFAIK. < 1236989230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. < 1236989233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PRINT PEEK(0) prints 112. < 1236989236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is 112 HLT? :P < 1236989239 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1236989240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea < 1236989249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and HLT is the wrong one anyway < 1236989253 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Typically the memory at 0 in a dos system contains the interrupt vector table. < 1236989256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HLT halts until interrupt iirc < 1236989264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HCF < 1236989277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : To build programs that Use a Basic development environment that < 1236989277 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : require over 160K of memory supports creating large programs. < 1236989281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGE PROGRAMS < 1236989288 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : To distribute your programs Use Microsoft Visual Basic for MS-DOS or < 1236989293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t'was contaminated even then < 1236989338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HLT Halt < 1236989338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Causes the microprocessor to halt instruction execution and enter the HALT state. Entering the HALT < 1236989338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :state puts the processor in low-power mode. Execution resumes when an unmasked hardware interrupt < 1236989338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(INTR), non-maskable interrupt (NMI), system management interrupt (SMI), RESET, or INIT occurs. < 1236989353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is AMD64 docs. But iirc it was introduced quite early on < 1236989355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure when < 1236989364 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "The current version of the CPU emulator, as of dosemu-1.1.x, has been rewritten from scratch, and is now called simx86. -- Added a native 64-bit port for x86-64, which, by default, uses CPU emulation for V86 mode, and runs DPMI code natively." < 1236989367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe 386, maybe a bit later < 1236989372 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that's what dosemu does on x86-64. < 1236989380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I see < 1236989390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, DPMI? < 1236989391 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a dosbox-like full CPU emulation, but it only uses that when it has to. < 1236989400 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the DOS way of running in protected mode. < 1236989407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236989410 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"DOS Protected Mode Interface". < 1236989413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : /G Sets QBasic to update a CGA screen as fast as possible < 1236989414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (works only with machines using CGA monitors). If you < 1236989416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : see snow (dots flickering on the screen) when QBasic < 1236989418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : updates your screen, your hardware cannot fully support < 1236989420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : this option. If you prefer a clean screen, restart < 1236989422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : QBasic without the /G option. < 1236989424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IF YOU PREFER A CLEAN SCREEN < 1236989435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes and? < 1236989445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xD < 1236989449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, idea: Haskell -> QBasic translator < 1236989452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1236989454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1236989458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YES! < 1236989480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :call it QHaskell. Or HBasic? < 1236989487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zem.fi/~fis/qb.html#QEw4MDgz < 1236989491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AIAEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE < 1236989505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ■ Remarks are ignored when the program runs unless they contain < 1236989505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : metacommands. < 1236989506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha ha ha what < 1236989516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zem.fi/~fis/qb.html#QEw4MDdi < 1236989517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1236989519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They go in COMMENTS> < 1236989521 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: '$DYNAMIC < 1236989524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :commands that work from comments < 1236989527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :horrible < 1236989533 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically it's for compatibility with other versions of BASIC < 1236989535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which didn't read them < 1236989546 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, given that $STATIC and $DYNAMIC change the semantics of the language... < 1236989549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err INTERCAL has comments like that < 1236989552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of < 1236989558 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bit like #pragma. < 1236989585 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except maybe even a tiny bit uglier. < 1236989590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not really < 1236989603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more INTERCAL doesn't have comments, people abuse syntax errors as comments < 1236989610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well yeah < 1236989622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BASIC as a scripting language for a C program: < 1236989627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In C, < 1236989642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :funcptr basic_funcs[512]; < 1236989650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in basic_funcs, put pointers to machine code. < 1236989660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err... what? < 1236989663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait for it < 1236989666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, to execute a basic program, < 1236989677 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :put an INPUT line, that reads into cFuncsBase < 1236989683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then procedure definitions < 1236989687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that use CALL ABSOLUTE to call into them < 1236989689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, where is this from? < 1236989691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then cat the program to it < 1236989692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then, run it < 1236989695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nowhere, I just invented it < 1236989700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1236989706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: discuss the awfulosity < 1236989710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also DOS doesn't have cat < 1236989718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not the point. < 1236989721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1236989761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so is this extending C with BASIC or BASIC with C? < 1236989769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Former < 1236989776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An old-school game scripting language scheme :P < 1236989778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so the C program starts first? < 1236989784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of < 1236989786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do < 1236989789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :system("qbasic ...") < 1236989789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C < 1236989794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1236989795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except more complex < 1236989800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it can call back to C? < 1236989801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you write the address of basic_funcs to its stdin < 1236989805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, no fork() < 1236989807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, via the funcs you specially set up and pointers < 1236989816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: fork() is impossible altogether in DOS < 1236989818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can that even work. How can you know basic won't overwrite your memory= < 1236989818 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1236989822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't < 1236989824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you never do in DOS < 1236989842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Code your own computer opponent with the Microsoft QBasic language you know and love. Just use our library of standard game procedures in your program—they're there automatically!" < 1236989852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. I mean system() can't really work if you have been overwritten when it returns < 1236989872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, heh < 1236989880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if the user overwrites the game from his AI, that's his own shit-stupid fault and he gets what he deserves < 1236989934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then something happened... Between 1990 and 2000... < 1236989938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1236989947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1236990015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, memory protection started going mainstream more and more. Windows NT. Later during 200x: windows xp. < 1236990020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1236990030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windows nt didn't really hit home users < 1236990035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, this passes around a pointer from another app that you jump to < 1236990035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but work places mostly < 1236990039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it wouldn't work anyway with memory protection < 1236990048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: is there -no way- to multitask in dos? < 1236990051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I doubt that would work even under Windows 9x < 1236990055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there has to be, surely, see: all the advanced dos programs < 1236990066 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you can do cooperative multitasking sort of < 1236990072 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you normally need cooperation from both programs < 1236990076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, TSR? < 1236990082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah, we don't control qbasic so that's not an option < 1236990086 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you effectively have to write your own OS kernel above DOS in order to do competitive < 1236990097 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, as AnMaster says, there were TSRs < 1236990106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, that could work < 1236990106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which basically worked by hooking the interrupt table in evil ways < 1236990111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have the qbasic program tsr < 1236990114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while the game keeps running < 1236990121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then, in the game loop, have a resumeQBasic() < 1236990122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if you can get QBasic to TSR < 1236990122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at the end < 1236990125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I doubt you could do that in qbasic < 1236990128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it can execute arbitrary machine code < 1236990129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well POKE machine code... < 1236990148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'd just have a snippet to tsr, then control it from C < 1236990159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := Scripting a C DOS game with QBasic! And as a side effect having it crawl to a stop. < 1236990164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT NOT TO LIKE < 1236990199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/LIKE/DO/ < 1236990312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1236990316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: have you got any qbasic programs lying around? < 1236990319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd love to try them :) < 1236990332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahahaha < 1236990332 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: they were mostly on a really old laptop that doesn't work nowadays < 1236990337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a silly typo < 1236990341 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me run a quick slocate to see if any survived < 1236990343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: wut < 1236990356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :buf[n] = '\0'; vs. buf[STRINGALLOCCHUNK] = '\0'; < 1236990381 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope, apparently none of them did, pity < 1236990393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1236990431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd love a sort of "QBasic 2009" dealie < 1236990438 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowadays it's all about Visual Basic < 1236990450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, VB.NET < 1236990451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even < 1236990457 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1236990457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but I don't mean actually basic < 1236990464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just a really simple language you can do SDL-y stuff in < 1236990465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be nice < 1236990466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, hi zzo38 < 1236990478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm... asm? < 1236990482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we. < 1236990482 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: http://www.newscientist.com/blogs/shortsharpscience/2009/03/how-moores-law-saved-the-web.html < 1236990484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: *er < 1236990497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if with simple you mean low level < 1236990505 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, you can get QBasic from http://support.microsoft.com/kb/135315 < 1236990507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ... no. < 1236990508 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :download olddos.exe < 1236990512 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and run it in dosbox < 1236990513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I have qbasic... < 1236990515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, haskell with hsdl? < 1236990520 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: other people here might not < 1236990522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's not "really simple" < 1236990527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well ok < 1236990544 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm... Java? < 1236990550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.... < 1236990552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just stop talking < 1236990559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, then any suggestions? < 1236990560 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The #anagol channel doesn't help. How to put FlogScript on anarchy golf site? Can someone send a message, but I don't use e-mail and am unsure. Still, I do it anyways on the wiki entry for FlogScript but if it is directly on there, it can be together listed with the others! < 1236990567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: You cannot. < 1236990571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You must ask shinh to add a language < 1236990589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He is on IRC quite often < 1236990605 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shinh was on but I received no reply < 1236990621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I like gopher, so that link above.. < 1236990625 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1236990640 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the tunes.org log seems to be not working right now < 1236990649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It works here < 1236990692 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The log works now < 1236990698 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1236990760 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe my DNS is mixed up and doesn't always work. I am unsure < 1236990809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, I invented a language earlier today. < 1236990828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"What BASIC would be if everything was event-based instead of imperative, and there were only assignments and a few other things and stuff." < 1236990834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Catchy name, I'm sure you'll agree. < 1236990847 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What link for description of language you invented earlier today < 1236990876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No link right now < 1236990877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's an example < 1236990898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 SUM < 1236990898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 NUMBERS < 1236990899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ON INPUT% N < 1236990901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SUM + N SUM < 1236990903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NUMBERS + 1 NUMBERS < 1236990905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OVER < 1236990907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ON INPUT$ ='' < 1236990909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NUMBERS READ < 1236990911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :' NUMBERS, SUM ' READ < 1236990913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SUM READ < 1236990915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OVER < 1236990917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :READ actually prints, it means "read out" < 1236990921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should be obvious what it does but how it works is a bit odd < 1236990923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that looks like AppleBASIC... < 1236990933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here it is with blank lines < 1236990934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 SUM < 1236990934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 NUMBERS < 1236990936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1236990938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ON INPUT% N < 1236990940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SUM + N SUM < 1236990942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NUMBERS + 1 NUMBERS < 1236990944 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1236990944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OVER < 1236990946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1236990948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ON INPUT$ ='' < 1236990949 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UNDER < 1236990950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NUMBERS READ < 1236990952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :' NUMBERS, SUM ' READ < 1236990954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SUM READ < 1236990956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OVER < 1236990958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :easier to read that way < 1236990962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, "What BASIC would be if everything was event-based instead of imperative, and there were only assignments and a few other things and stuff." < 1236990965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the context < 1236990977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The interesting thing is, < 1236990982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in "INPUT% N" < 1236990982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hi btw < 1236990985 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: would i have said "OVER" if i cared about the context? < 1236990985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's actually an assignment < 1236990994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, no idea. < 1236990996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and INPUT$ ='' is an assignment too, although not how you might think < 1236990997 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean "UNDER" < 1236990999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := is a variable modifier. < 1236991009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, everything is an assignment < 1236991029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you assign to a variable starting =, it is compared to the rest and is true if the thing it'd assign is equaal to that. < 1236991036 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :everything is water < 1236991036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, did you see my comment about AppleBASIC above? < 1236991041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's "VALUE VARIABLE" < 1236991044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus the 0 SUM < 1236991046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so INPUT% N < 1236991047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is < 1236991050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N = INPUT% < 1236991053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and INPUT$ = '' < 1236991054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is < 1236991063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X = INPUT$; IF X = '' THEN TRUE ELSE FALSE < 1236991070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except X isn't actually assigned < 1236991079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, of course, assigning to READ prints out the value < 1236991090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ means string and % number, there's actually two different INPUT commands < 1236991119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ON foo\n...\nOVER means "Whenever performing foo happens (is true), do the stuff, then finish,." < 1236991126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to come up with rules that would make befunge harder to use < 1236991129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basically, it listens for user input and the like all the time, but by default does nothing. < 1236991134 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :panta rhei < 1236991134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about swapping arguments for - < 1236991141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I think it's easy to understand from that, does that make sense zzo38? < 1236991152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you need 4\- to do the same as 4- now < 1236991154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also define your own assignments and stuff < 1236991154 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes it make sense. OK < 1236991163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So if you want to condition on multiple stuff you can < 1236991165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like < 1236991173 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :judicaster < 1236991183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if we want to say FOO whenever we get a number below 10 < 1236991236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BEGIN < 1236991236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INPUT% N < 1236991237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :N < 10 < 1236991239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IS INBEL10% N < 1236991242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1236991243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ON INBEL10% N < 1236991245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'FOO' READ < 1236991247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :END READ < 1236991249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OVER < 1236991251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :END is a string with a newline. < 1236991257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, BEGIN\n...\nIS blah means "blah is true if the stuff is true" < 1236991268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty simple, like I said it's just event-based BASIC, sort of < 1236991287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I called it Simple Tables, because the CPU architechture I thought about that would run it well involved tables for events < 1236991321 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oerjan is wrong < 1236991330 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't used tabs in vim, then < 1236991343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The machine architechture basically had two instructions < 1236991348 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1236991358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an instruction that made it easy to condition on an event (which is: any outside input, or clock tick, or whatever) < 1236991363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i.e. one instruction, that would just idle then jump < 1236991371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And another one which you gave a pointer < 1236991376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it'd read that pointer, and see another pointer < 1236991378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read that, execute it < 1236991380 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1236991380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and go on one < 1236991392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So an ON would just add to the pointer list of that event < 1236991400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and an ON of an event not seen before would add it to the event table jump < 1236991524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1236991648 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1236991708 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-133-63.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1236991727 0 :Jophish!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1236991987 0 :Corun!n=Corun@93-97-219-19.zone5.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1236991993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ~/funge/interpreters/rcfunge/funge tests/sigfpe.b98 < 1236991993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Floating point exception < 1236991996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should I report it < 1236991998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1236992024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just all division by zero < 1236992031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is well defined in befunge to be 0 < 1236992038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this time in various fingerprints < 1236992128 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thought this was from sigfpe the blogger for a moment < 1236992145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from who? < 1236992158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also SIGFPE is floating point exception < 1236992163 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blog.sigfpe.com/ < 1236992174 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i remembered that the next moment < 1236992772 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is doing a rather absurd DVD ripping spree... < 1236992779 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :43 fucking DVDs. < 1236992786 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Farscape, in its entirety) < 1236992786 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq the ripper < 1236992843 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fortunately, copying the DVD to disc can be done seperately from the encode. So, just spend a few hours feeding discs in, and let a batch encode run for, oh, say, a week. < 1236993199 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://paste2.org/p/164029 :) < 1236993240 0 :[helloworld]!n=[hellowo@62.87.208.174 JOIN :#esoteric < 1236993307 0 :[helloworld]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello, i'm trying to write simple ROT-program in brain-fuck but i have problems with rot-1 ;/ it doesn't work for all cases. I just increase ascii value, but it doesn't work, where i have got Z, it shoul return A < 1236993311 0 :[helloworld]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you hlp me? < 1236993319 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats MizardX -----### < 1236993323 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I AM NOT EHIRD < 1236993339 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have shared nicks sometime in the last 4 months < 1236993361 0 :[helloworld]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236993362 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yeah i remember him impostering me the other day < 1236993365 0 :[helloworld]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i asked about that < 1236993380 0 :[helloworld]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still have no idea :/ < 1236993426 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[helloworld]: well you need to test for Z i guess < 1236993439 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, what about non-alphabetic characters? < 1236993449 0 :[helloworld]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how can i do simply if() in BF? < 1236993470 0 :[helloworld]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i start learn BF, i want to write in only for A-Z chars < 1236993506 0 :[helloworld]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read only one char increase it and write < 1236993509 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take a look at http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Brainfuck_algorithms < 1236993523 0 :[helloworld]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i should first check is it a 'Z" < 1236993571 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you probably need the if-then-else algorithm there < 1236993588 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Brainfuck_algorithms#if_.28x.29_.7B_code1_.7D_else_.7B_code2_.7D < 1236993634 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see the beginning of the article for how to interpret the algorithms < 1236993637 0 :[helloworld]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe modulo < 1236993650 0 :[helloworld]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what should be easier? < 1236993686 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe < 1236993708 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does the Rickroll phone number still work? < 1236993743 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the modulo looks short enough < 1236993802 0 :[helloworld]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how to use it? < 1236993875 0 :[helloworld]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe if, it looks easier < 1236993974 0 :[helloworld]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is: temp0[-] should i change it? it's forbidden chars < 1236993977 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well for if you would need to subtract 'Z' from your character, then test, since all basic testing is for 0 < 1236993992 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[helloworld]: i said to read the beginning of the article for that < 1236994066 0 :[helloworld]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did that and stil don't know ;/ < 1236994120 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically the variable names are abbreviations for >'s and <'s to get to that particular spot < 1236994171 0 :[helloworld]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still don't know, could you give me an example code with if instruction? < 1236994192 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to first choose where on the tape each variable is < 1236994284 0 :[helloworld]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how can i 'save' this vars on the 'tape' < 1236994307 0 :[helloworld]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read one chars using "," < 1236994316 0 :[helloworld]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then where/how should i store it? < 1236994323 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, so go to the right place before you do , < 1236994349 0 :[helloworld]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this char shoulnd't be the first in my program? < 1236994375 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not unless you want it stored at cell 0. < 1236994382 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which could very well be quite reasonable. < 1236994394 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you want to loop, so it at least needs to be in a loop < 1236994419 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it could be worthwhile to duplicate it, for example cat is ,[.,] < 1236994440 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's generally a good idea, since you *probably* want to check for EOF. < 1236994450 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming EOF=0) < 1236994476 0 :[helloworld]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok but if I only want read only one char from input? < 1236994491 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you don't have read in a loop. < 1236994495 0 :[helloworld]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why should i use loop? < 1236994522 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you don't need to < 1236994533 0 :[helloworld]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, so I read that char and how can i check is it 'Z' or no < 1236994561 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to subtract the code for 'Z' since all testing is for 0 < 1236994581 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use just a bunch of -'s for starters < 1236994588 0 :[helloworld]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't understand, could you paraphrase? < 1236994614 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the code for 'Z' is 64+26 = 90 < 1236994623 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 90 minuses < 1236994649 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are shorter ways though, but they require some copying around < 1236994656 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://paste2.org/p/164039 <-- updated < 1236994665 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's another page on the wiki for those shorter ways. < 1236994684 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, Brainfuck constants < 1236994729 0 :[helloworld]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, i have ,---[90 times]. Then i should check is that [90 minuses]==var i have read? < 1236994772 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you do - 90 times on the var you've read, and then check whether that's 0. < 1236994805 0 :[helloworld]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can i chec it? < 1236994810 0 :[helloworld]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k, but wait < 1236994825 0 :[helloworld]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's not 0 i should write that var++? < 1236994854 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah you'll need to add 91 back then < 1236994872 0 :[helloworld]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but stil don't know how to code if < 1236994879 0 :[helloworld]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can i check is it 0? < 1236994889 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see the if then else algorithm < 1236994912 0 :[helloworld]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do that and still don't understand that "pseudo"code < 1236994913 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now you need to select cells for temp0 and temp1. x is your original var. < 1236994940 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you let temp0 and temp1 be the next cells you can use the second, simpler version < 1236994961 0 :[helloworld]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how to select that cells in BF? < 1236994974 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the right number of >'s and <'s < 1236994990 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need to know what cell you are on before, and which you want to go to < 1236995018 0 :[helloworld]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could you paraphrase < 1236995028 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you have just subtracted 90 from x, you will still be at x < 1236995040 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so to get to temp0 you do > < 1236995055 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and to get to temp1 after that, another > < 1236995067 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you go back to x with << < 1236995108 0 :[helloworld]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, now understand selecting, but stil don't udnerstand why should i use that temps < 1236995198 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically the way to test for 0 is with a [loop]. but you need some trickiness to get out of that loop after just one test, and to know what the test result was < 1236995254 0 :[helloworld]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've already known: read my var x and substract 90 from it. Then i have to check is my "new" var is 0 < 1236995262 0 :[helloworld]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now i don't know how to code it < 1236995312 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :temp0[-]+temp1[-]x[code1x>-]>[->]<< < 1236995321 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the second version < 1236995340 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming x is the first cell, temp0 the second and temp1 the third < 1236995381 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :code1 will start running at x, it will be run if x is nonzero < 1236995411 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :code2 will also start running at x, it will be run if x is zero < 1236995426 0 :[helloworld]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I should change it that code temp0 via > and temp1 via >> ? < 1236995449 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it depends where you start from < 1236995478 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but assume code1 and code2 don't move (i don't think they need to). then we should know where you are all through that mess < 1236995499 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me change those to >'s and <'s for you < 1236995524 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>[-]+>[-]<<[code1>-]>[->]<< < 1236995529 0 :[helloworld]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>[-]+>[-]<<[code1x>-]>[->]<y) < 1236996845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fspace.bottomRightCorner.y = position->y; < 1236996845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (fspace.topLeftCorner.y > position->y) < 1236996845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fspace.topLeftCorner.y = position->y; < 1236996850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that generates better code < 1236996851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :than < 1236996856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (fspace.bottomRightCorner.y < position->y) < 1236996856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fspace.bottomRightCorner.y = position->y; < 1236996856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : else if (fspace.topLeftCorner.y > position->y) < 1236996856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : fspace.topLeftCorner.y = position->y; < 1236996860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is rather weird < 1236996869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, don't you agree? < 1236996896 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, again < 1236996907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, you agree then or? < 1236996912 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1236996914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway. reason: x86 has "conditional move", avoiding overhead of branching. < 1236996920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with else if you can't use it < 1236996929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you need to jump past then < 1236996945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, so the former is in fact faster < 1236996951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to less branching < 1236996959 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah so pipelining makes the first do more at one time, essentially? < 1236996964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact the former has no branches < 1236996965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at all < 1236997019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well possibly that too < 1236997022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but don't think so < 1236997032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mainly this is due to branch prediction < 1236997093 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1236997125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, http://paste.lisp.org/display/77000 < 1236997149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fspace there is really fspace.topLeftCorner.x < 1236997153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they have same address < 1236997164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :first member of struct < 1236997179 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gives up understanding that < 1236997189 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(tldr essentially) < 1236997196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well it is a bit confusing since all this is in RIP addressing < 1236997208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is relative the program counter < 1236997223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, the comments show the expanded values < 1236997243 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, what is "tldr"? < 1236997244 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think you are misunderstanding me. i am saying i cannot be bothered to try and understand that. < 1236997252 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"too long, didn't read" < 1236997389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, since "position" is passed in registers on amd64 this is even more confusing < 1236997393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't even on stack < 1236997457 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1236998213 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1237001174 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-88-99.w81-49.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1237002232 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1237002393 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1237003426 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1237003487 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1237005433 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1237005459 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to design a set of cpu/sound/video hardware for something like a demo < 1237005478 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably to just run it in an emulator < 1237005499 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm out of inspiration < 1237005513 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially for the cpu part < 1237006092 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also should be 16 bits-ish and possible to implement on FPGAs < 1237006202 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BITCHES < 1237006272 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16 bitches? < 1237007201 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1237016245 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1237017599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1237017600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1237020512 0 :mad!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Radiateur" < 1237021496 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-2-146.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1237024437 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Client Excited" < 1237025161 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-57-123.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1237025828 0 :neldoreth!n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth JOIN :#esoteric < 1237025886 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1237026254 0 :tombom!i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1237026346 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-027-168.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1237026956 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and yet another conversion variant: http://zem.fi/~fis/qbc.html has a lot more authentic colors. < 1237029308 0 :Mony!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-93-123.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1237030153 0 :MigoMipo_!n=MigoMipo@84-217-7-169.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1237030248 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1237030254 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MigoMipo < 1237030832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is irritated... Spent three hours trying to track down a "rootkit" detected by chkrootkit, only to find and confirm it was a false positive. < 1237030854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course I did it from bootcd too, so even more wasted time) < 1237030982 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1237036507 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1237036523 0 :neldoreth!n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth JOIN :#esoteric < 1237036549 0 :Jophish!n=Jophish@80-47-79-201.lond-hex.dynamic.dial.as9105.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1237036873 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1237039937 0 :Corun!n=Corun@93-97-219-19.zone5.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1237041973 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=BeholdMy@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1237043765 0 :FireyFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1237044374 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1237044777 0 :neldoreth!n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth JOIN :#esoteric < 1237045940 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1237045984 0 :Corun!n=Corun@93-97-219-19.zone5.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1237046133 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-027-168.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1237047300 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1237048834 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Peace and Protection 4.22.2" < 1237048959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the background is blue, silly. < 1237048971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, a qbcnou would be nice < 1237048972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :03:50 psygnisfive: BITCHES < 1237048976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"but i don't say bitches!" < 1237048981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX: lol i am not ais523 :D < 1237049062 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is an updated version: http://paste2.org/p/164039 < 1237049098 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c0796BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1237049101 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I removed the spourious nick changes that made the script think you where the same person < 1237049186 0 :Corun!n=Corun@93-97-219-19.zone5.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1237049425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MizardX: that's a rather limited selection of logs < 1237049464 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Only since november. < 1237049673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll write a script to download all of clog < 1237049850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, English question: < 1237049871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Move the IP forward one step" or "Move the IP forwards one step"? < 1237049875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also: < 1237049883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Move the IP backward one step" or "Move the IP backwards one step"? < 1237049894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 1) either works, the latter is more pronouncable 2) either works, the latter sounds a lot better < 1237049900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1237049903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'd go for the latter both times < 1237049920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah I thought "backwards" sounded better, but I wasn't sure about forward(s) < 1237049921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1237049948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :np < 1237049965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw did you see that code I posted yesterday, where if was faster than else if? < 1237049966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1237049997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1237050023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone know curl here? < 1237050025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weird isn't it? I mean, logically, just testing one branch should be faster. < 1237050037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, as in libcurl API or curl the command line tool? < 1237050040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :latter < 1237050049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah well then I'm not the right person to ask < 1237050055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I used curl a bit < 1237050061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I might be able to help < 1237050066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the issue? < 1237050072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just want it to output a one-line progress bar, instead of this monstrosity: < 1237050073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : % Total % Received % Xferd Average Speed Time Time Time Current < 1237050074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Dload Upload Total Spent Left Speed < 1237050076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :100 277k 100 277k 0 0 71867 0 0:00:03 0:00:03 --:--:-- 81084 < 1237050095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, well actually they're so small I don't need a progress bar < 1237050098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, thanks anyway :P < 1237050099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, have you see what wget outputs? < 1237050114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : -#/--progress-bar Display transfer progress as a progress bar < 1237050117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, tried that ? < 1237050120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, thanks :) < 1237050141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, from curl --help | grep progress < 1237050145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1237050151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well sorry ;_; < 1237050165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no problem < 1237050207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wanted to help you in the future. You know you always tell me to use google so to keep the balance I have to tell you to use --help/man/info/grep/whatever < 1237050209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ < 1237050631 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1237051388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wrote a script to download all clog logs (or, if you already have them, update them to the current day) < 1237051392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also renames them to YYYY-MM-DD < 1237051401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be nice if I could fix the times too; anyone know clog's timezone? Well, I could check. < 1237051402 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.128 JOIN :#esoteric < 1237051405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1237051410 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ehird < 1237051429 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, /is/ my-cars (car . cdr)? < 1237051441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1237051447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the lisp translation of "My other car is a cdr" < 1237051454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1237051473 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely people would use a list not a cons cell to list their cars, though? < 1237051478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :(eq? (cadr my-cars) 'cdr) | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D < 1237051480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1237051484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"my other" means there's only two < 1237051491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :(eq? (cdr my-cars) 'cdr) | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D < 1237051497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a pair of cars < 1237051514 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, ok < 1237051520 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but cons cells are inherently ordered < 1237051523 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose lists are too, though < 1237051637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My script is currently downloading aaaall the tunes.org logs. < 1237051651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It automatically only downloads ones you haven't downloaded yet, too. < 1237051669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to make it fix the timezones, too < 1237051670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to UTC < 1237051687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1237051692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 16: here, 09: there < 1237051699 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so UTC-7 < 1237051712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1237051713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agh < 1237051718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it crosses the day line, of course < 1237051722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'd have to move lines between files < 1237051729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::\ < 1237051734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: worth it, do you think? < 1237051746 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1237051759 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would normally be UTC-8, though < 1237051768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, right < 1237051772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does UTC have daylight savings? < 1237051778 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, -8 from us, anyway < 1237051779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, I can just blanket -8 < 1237051852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1237051855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be simple enough < 1237051870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's N hours away from midnight, strip from file onwards and append to 'Putthisinthenextfile' < 1237051880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you make a file, splurge putthisinthenextfile after the first 'starting' line < 1237051882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :repeat < 1237051897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you come to today - 1, disregard putthisinthenextfile (It never downloads an incomplete log) < 1237052077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll make it download first, though < 1237052219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the net effect should be -- wait a few minutes, get YYYY-MM-DD logs with UTC timestamps, fully greppable < 1237053119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know what irritates me? < 1237053132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OOP weenies "praising" functional programming by saying it has things to contribute to architechture < 1237053142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because, of course, _replacing OOP_ cannot possibly be a productive path < 1237053157 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :functional and OOP simultaneously is of course entirely possible < 1237053158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, we just have to stick and pile crap on to our existing model, see? those functional languages are just wacky things we'll cherry pick from < 1237053165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, but I mean the OOP C# Java sort of people < 1237053166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always say that < 1237053168 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't mean it's a good idea for all programs < 1237053185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they never consider that maybe replacing OOP is better than adding on to it < 1237053194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's always things "contributing" to mainstream languages < 1237053326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so anyway < 1237053334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should I write a book about esolangs and esoprogramming < 1237053340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean I've been toying with the idea for a while. < 1237053863 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so have I < 1237053872 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but our books would probably look very different < 1237053877 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i changed my ways just for you. < 1237053896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why? :P < 1237053903 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: I misread UTC-8 as UTF-8, and got confused for a moment < 1237053906 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a symbol of my love *-* < 1237053908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, mine was gonna have a loot of theoretical stuff < 1237053912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then like some practical tipz < 1237053913 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: because we seem to disagree stylistically on everything < 1237053921 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not too dissimilar from what I was planning < 1237053930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'd include in-depth discussions of many of the most popular esolangs, though < 1237053940 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how to measure esolang popularity? Page-hits on the wiki? < 1237053950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was maybe gonna do two books < 1237053958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one about esoprogs & esolangs in general < 1237053964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one about how to actually write a damn program in brainfuck/intercal/etc < 1237053970 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two sections of the same book might work better < 1237053973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1237053987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't imagine they'd be too big, yeah :P < 1237054016 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/Special:Popularpages is pretty interesting < 1237054026 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprised Ook! is so far up, for instance < 1237054039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that INTERCAL is so far down < 1237054049 0 :Judofyr_!n=Judofyr@c0796BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1237054073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I found a qbasic game that dosbox was too slow to run X < 1237054074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD < 1237054082 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can speed it up < 1237054086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had "delay = 10000" < 1237054089 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was obviously designed for more modern computers < 1237054092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm setting it to "delay = 0" < 1237054102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it was made in 1995 by a friend; but it was his second ever game < 1237054109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, all IFs were just gotos, etc < 1237054111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1237054118 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's before I was born < 1237054118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, it's probably a large artifact of the code < 1237054123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what, 1995? < 1237054130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, misread it as 1985 < 1237054140 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was slightly after I was born, I think < 1237054167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what cpu cycles do you have your qbasic dosbox? < 1237054171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine is 3000 < 1237054182 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I leave it on default < 1237054185 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't use it much, you see... < 1237054191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll be in the title bar < 1237054262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, this game is fancy, it even has an icon. < 1237054454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't type backslash, argh < 1237054817 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1237055116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1237055117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BASIC is portable. < 1237055125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just translated some C64 basic to QBasic trivially. :P < 1237055131 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't be surprised if there was at least one portable version by now < 1237055132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(graphical) < 1237055140 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arguably, VB.NET is portable due to Mono, but that's hardly BASIC < 1237055215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, spectrum < 1237055215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not c64 < 1237055219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spectrum BASIC: < 1237055219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 BORDER 0; PAPER 0 < 1237055220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 FOR n = 1 TO 7 < 1237055222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :30 INK n < 1237055224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :40 CIRCLE 100+n*10,100+n*10,50 < 1237055226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :50 NEXT n < 1237055228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QBasic: < 1237055230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCREEN 12 < 1237055232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOR n = 1 TO 7 < 1237055234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :COLOR n < 1237055237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CIRCLE (1==+n*10,100+n*10),50 < 1237055238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEXT n < 1237055240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1237055242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CIRCLE (1+n*10,100+n*10),50 < 1237055580 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1237055735 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 16 bitches? < 1237055748 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION imagines some kind of counting song < 1237056048 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It's not blue in my qbasic.exe help-browser by default; it's black there, even though the edit screen is white-on-blue. < 1237056057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right < 1237056096 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although at least quickbasic has a colour configura-o-tron for the UI. < 1237056239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://jsspeccy.zxdemo.org/ < 1237056249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all it needs now is a BASIC editor < 1237056287 0 :Judofyr_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Judofyr < 1237056649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you know how you said the shuffle should have buttons on the headphones? < 1237056650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it _does_ < 1237056655 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1237056656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just realised < 1237056661 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but unfortunately, it isn't just the headphones? < 1237056674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a thin unit: http://images.apple.com/ipodshuffle/gallery/images/ipodshuffle_image1_20090311.jpg < 1237056678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, not quite all in those tiny tiny earphones < 1237056713 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You have a thin unit < 1237056713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://images.apple.com/ipodshuffle/gallery/images/ipodshuffle_image3_20090311.jpg <- headphone cable controls < 1237056713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: Oh burn. < 1237056716 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kekeke < `?> < 1237056925 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kekeke? is that some kind of french laugh? < 1237056945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Korean. < 1237056962 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1237056979 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's "lololo" put through the Orcish/Human filter in World of Warcraft < 1237057003 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I remember correctly, anyway < 1237057008 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1237057047 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evidently "kek" is "lol" but "kekeke" is "hahaha" according to Wikipedia < 1237057090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1237057093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it originates from starcraft iirc < 1237057106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's an orcish/human filter on world of warcraft? < 1237057106 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The origin is the Korean < 1237057108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or at least, common usage < 1237057114 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it work, just swapping certain letters? < 1237057125 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so, yes, with some hardcoded words (like "lol" -> "kek") < 1237057134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't, considering the < `?`> smiley next to it it's obviously meant to be korean < 1237057167 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It originates in Warcraft, to be precise < 1237057178 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wspanig elttres < 1237057187 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.e. Warcraft: Orcs and Humans from 1994 < 1237057193 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or 1993? Not sure < 1237057196 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*wspaipgn < 1237057281 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ot wspa, ro ont ot wspa, httas' hte uqseitno < 1237057337 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/httas'/htta si/ < 1237057352 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an ode to orcs enjoying hot spas, obviously < 1237057434 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :octnartcoisn tfw! < 1237057448 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qapla'! < 1237057454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... it seems to be mostly anagramming rather than substituting letters < 1237057477 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i hope you are not thinking i am being authentic here < 1237057501 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does that mean i'm more authentic than i thought? < 1237057566 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@a-27.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1237057588 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hell, now that I see the quote in question, make that "taH pagh, taHbe"... < 1237057663 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1237057666 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KLINGON!? < 1237057667 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1237057668 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my klingon is rather rusty. < 1237057677 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, dead before birth, really < 1237057680 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QAPLAH < 1237057685 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know klingon < 1237057717 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slereah: i do vaguely recall it being case sensitive, though < 1237057722 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1237057723 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is. < 1237057733 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the transliteration anyway < 1237057737 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :klingon uses caps and lowercase for different sounds < 1237057742 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't < 1237057746 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do. < 1237057750 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the transliterations. < 1237057753 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the transliteration that does that < 1237057758 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Klingon has an alphabet < 1237057762 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes i know this < 1237057764 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thank you. < 1237057768 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has two, actually < 1237057771 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but thats besides the point < 1237057787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOEFLER TEXT < 1237057799 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hoefler text? < 1237057804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes! < 1237057826 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why is this font interesting now? < 1237057833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is awesome. < 1237057837 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1237057843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, *typeface. < 1237057844 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its italic Q is pretty neat < 1237057845 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hoefles around < 1237057888 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :text figures <3 < 1237058131 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats a wiki spammer -----### < 1237058145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION catches the wiki spammer in a butterfly net -----\XXXXX/ < 1237058145 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he'll never know what hit him < 1237058188 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't think the gentle butterfly net is appropriate for spammers < 1237058201 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's to hold them still while you swat them < 1237058214 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does the gentle butterfly net remind me of a frying pan? < 1237058230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello! I am testing stuff. Please feel free to totally ignore me. < 1237058231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you! < 1237058238 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :frying pans are similar but harder and more painful < 1237058238 0 :Corun!n=Corun@93-97-219-19.zone5.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1237058242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also they have a smaller volume < 1237058259 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Frying pans are presumably preferred by the really hard-core butterfly enthusiasts. < 1237058274 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, you would be surprised < 1237058312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://screencast.com/t/jlgWoqvK (needs flash) < 1237058328 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: just do it all command-line and use termcast < 1237058333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1237058335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't need flash, or indeed a web browser < 1237058347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs telnet. and it requires you to use command line tools. < 1237058359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean needing telnet is a problem? needing flash isn't either. < 1237058361 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's for broadcasting terminals, of course it requires command line tools < 1237058380 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, Windows Vista comes with telnet by default, and not Flash < 1237058386 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :likewise for every other common OS, I think < 1237058395 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but doing it with windows is more impressive < 1237058395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are you using a computer? use a television. that doesn't need RAM, or indeed a CPU. well, it's for broadcasting images, of course it requires passivity < 1237058405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, my house came with a TV, but no computer < 1237058423 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure Windows Vista comes with telnet by default < 1237058460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it does, it's just not enabled by default < 1237058464 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it does, but you have to install it. < 1237058466 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :windowshelp.microsoft.com sez: "By default, Telnet is not installed with Windows, but you can install it by following the steps below." < 1237058472 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no install is needed < 1237058475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least, it's on the computer < 1237058476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huge video capture is huge! I bet this one will be like 15MB+. < 1237058477 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you have to turn the thing on < 1237058479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid FLV. < 1237058495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Testing, testing. < 1237058533 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Installing is what they call "turning it on" on that windows help thing, though. Although admittedly the installation instructions go to some "Turn Windows features on or off" page. < 1237058565 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also other very good questions there: "Telnet doesn't look like Windows. Why?" < 1237058583 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I've got the Telnet window open. Now what?" < 1237058632 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting fact: for ages, Windows NT only supported one locally logged in person at a time, but allowed any number of users to telnet in < 1237058730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That may be a fact, but I'm not sure why it's so interesting. :P < 1237058757 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"And then, a miracle occurs" < 1237058783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...and I am here to capture this miracle forever and ever. < 1237058790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I feel so special to be selected as the sole receiver. < 1237058797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whatever will become of my life when this wonder is over? < 1237058803 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's interesting because it has 2*2*2*3*5 letters. < 1237058807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll flip burgers or something. I'll burger flips. < 1237058810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am a burger. < 1237058813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arem < 1237058815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aren't you? < 1237058825 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is "burger" a verb? < 1237058837 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1237058850 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise you wouldn't be able to say "burger flips" < 1237058877 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1237059019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://screencast.com/t/vdo7feUDvw <-- Burgers, miracles, etc. < 1237059028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can you tell I'm testing? < 1237059046 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you sound just like you usually do. < 1237059051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1237059078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be nice if Jing was less... laggy. And less SWF. < 1237059086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I'll write my own capturerotron < 1237059407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.newartisans.com/2009/03/hello-haskell-goodbye-lisp.html <- Yet another joins the club. < 1237060146 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1237060187 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1237060211 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=BeholdMy@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1237061937 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Quit" < 1237062194 0 :judicaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what IRC client is that < 1237062200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :limechat < 1237062202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X only < 1237062208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://limechat.net/mac/ < 1237062209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1237062212 0 :judicaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks better than colloquy < 1237062213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a limechat for windows by the same author < 1237062216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's totally separate < 1237062217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is < 1237062245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1237062246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Note that you need to install it even if you are using OSX 10.5.5. " < 1237062247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ignore that < 1237062249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's bullshit < 1237062255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just download limechat, it works :P < 1237062411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :omg < 1237062414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's limechat for the iphone < 1237062416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why nobody tell me < 1237062428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://limechat.net/iphone/images/serverlist.png < 1237062436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION grabs < 1237062464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrmps, £3 < 1237062757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: should I learn erlang? < 1237062779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://gist.github.com/79022 On second thoughts, maybe not. < 1237063590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, screen 13 is trivial < 1237063617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x+(y*w) < 1237063620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where w = width of stream < 1237063624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :screen < 1237063715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1237063719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi AnMaster < 1237063720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe. If you want. < 1237063725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got fast graphics working in qbasic < 1237063744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? nice < 1237063754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll show the code as soon as this finishes running :P < 1237063765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, have guests today that stay over night. Not much time to talk. < 1237063770 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using poke inset of pset? < 1237063771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kay < 1237063775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: yeah, pretty much < 1237063776 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead* < 1237063786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's for screen 13 (@AnMaster: 320x200, 256 col) < 1237063788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(relatives...) < 1237063792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I couldn't get it working before < 1237063797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it seems to work < 1237063804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1237063811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :@AnMaster: 320x200, 256 col <-- ? < 1237063817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what screen 13 i < 1237063818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1237063823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1237063833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, screen 13 meaning? < 1237063838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :screen mode 13 < 1237063840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1237063841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QBasic: SCREEN 13 < 1237063868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think "the 13th terminal" which is very different < 1237063872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1237063877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought* < 1237063883 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1237063888 0 :neldoreth!n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth JOIN :#esoteric < 1237063900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like it's finishing off... < 1237063902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and it just didn't make sense for DOS! < 1237063913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should see my multi display DOS setup < 1237063914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hardcore./ < 1237063926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have a 17" text display < 1237063931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://gist.github.com/79022 On second thoughts, maybe not. <-- wth < 1237063932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 14" 640x480 16-col display < 1237063937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to understand that code < 1237063941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a 15" 320x200 256-col display < 1237063943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's from erlang < 1237063945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'s source code < 1237063946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otp, thing < 1237063949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1237063951 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erl_eval < 1237063952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1237063966 0 :judicaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any language that has a fun keyword is cool with me < 1237063977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun awesome -> radical < 1237063994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it doesn't make much sense < 1237064003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not < 1237064039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well maybe in context. But you can call a fun with unknown arguments count at compile time in cleaner ways < 1237064051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : apply(Fun, Args) -> term() | empty() < 1237064051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Types Fun = fun() < 1237064051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Args = [term()] < 1237064056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a BIF even < 1237064067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, no < 1237064068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :becaus < 1237064069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1237064072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's in the evaluator < 1237064075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't an actual function < 1237064077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus the eval_fun shit < 1237064124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well that code assigns a fun(a,b,c,...) to F that calls eval_fun < 1237064136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not dumb, I can read i < 1237064137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1237064138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm not sure why this is useful. < 1237064139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just hdeous < 1237064141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hideous < 1237064144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean. what is the context < 1237064146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I agree < 1237064168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what source file is it from? < 1237064176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno < 1237064203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Howdy neighbor! This here's sup-config, ready to help you jack in to < 1237064203 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the next generation of digital cyberspace: the text-based email < 1237064205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :program. Get ready to be the envy of everyone in your internets < 1237064207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with your amazing keyboarding skills! Jump from email to email with < 1237064208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm /usr/lib/erlang/lib/stdlib-1.15.5/src/erl_eval.erl < 1237064209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nary a click of the mouse! < 1237064210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems < 1237064211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth < 1237064211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— sup-config program < 1237064310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm. It seems very weird indeed. The normal way would be to compile to erlang byte code then run that iirc < 1237064312 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1237064323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do that sort of stuff < 1237064371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : This module provides an interpreter for Erlang expressions. The expressions are in the abstract syntax as returned by erl_parse, the Erlang parser, or a call to < 1237064371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : io:parse_erl_exprs/2. < 1237064373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1237064615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and yes that code was horrible. But then it isn't something I ever needed to do thankfully < 1237064642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems erl_eval is meant to support safe evaluation of erlang code < 1237064657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with callbacks for all function calls and such < 1237064674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : During evaluation of a function, no calls can be made to local functions. An undefined function error would be generated. However, the optional argument LocalFunction‐ < 1237064674 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Handler may be used to define a function which is called when there is a call to a local function. The argument can have the following formats: < 1237065078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: here's the code < 1237065079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCREEN 13 < 1237065083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEF SEG = &HA000 < 1237065086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOR n = 0 TO 32767 < 1237065089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOR x = 0 TO 100 < 1237065094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :POKE x + (1 * 320), n < 1237065095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEXT x < 1237065096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NEXT n < 1237065107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's `x + (y * 320)` < 1237065118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, that flashess a band of colour on the second line of the screen. < 1237065119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot. < 1237065330 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Next you'll be graduating to VGA palette rotation tricksies. (That's also trivial: OUT &H3C8, followed by OUT &H3C9, ; OUT &H3C9, ; OUT &H3C9, with rgb values in the [0, 63] range; and it auto-advances, so you can just OUT &H3C8, 0 and then feed the whole 256-color palette in the 0x3c9 port. < 1237065400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what does that buy you? < 1237066522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice < 1237066571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw confusing: callgrind reports that 0 system time was spent in fclose() or fwrite() when writing files. Even though commenting out those calls actually reduces run time... < 1237066572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth < 1237066585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it reports the system time just fine for other stuff < 1237066591 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do "animation" fast without screen-redrawing. As long as you're happy with just manipulating palette values. < 1237066607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :==16002== L2 refs: 123,201 ( 28,492 rd + 94,709 wr) < 1237066607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :==16002== L2 misses: 30,943 ( 21,054 rd + 9,889 wr) < 1237066607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :==16002== L2 miss rate: 0.0% ( 0.0% + 0.2% ) < 1237066614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't believe valgrind can count? < 1237066624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the miss rate seems way off < 1237066700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, if it is actually relative L1 refs in the table above... < 1237066701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://paste.lisp.org/display/77046 < 1237066706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it is very confusing output < 1237067205 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And of course it also "buys you" a less silly color palette -- well, less silly for many uses -- than the default 256-color one.) < 1237067378 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop all the QBasic nonsense before I catch the qb bug too, though. I'm already very close to running dosbox; probably would've started it already, except I'm afraid it might use enough CPU to make the virtualbox windows vm get some audio-playing glitches. < 1237067906 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The "Version Differences" list at http://zem.fi/~fis/qbc.html#QEw4MDBm should make you appreciate QBasic over the older pre-5 DOS GW-BASIC. < 1237068961 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1237069021 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Whatever will become of my life when this wonder is over? < 1237069098 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you will be caught up in a struggle between religious sects with fiercely different interpretations of the miracle. as a result you will end up being burned on the stake, although that will still be many years in the future. < 1237069116 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION hopes this cleared it up. < 1237069223 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure you should be revealing your information-of-the-future stuff to us? I understand it's usually very hush-hush. < 1237069258 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not this one. it is a self-fulfilling prophecy, and those are important to get into the open. < 1237069363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1237069381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what exactly does this mean: char* const args[] < 1237069383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C < 1237069396 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :black magic. < 1237069402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int execvp(const char *file, char *const argv[]); < 1237069404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the context < 1237069406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the POSIX API < 1237069414 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least that's how i understand const in C (i.e., not very well at all) < 1237069432 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I understand const char*, just not char* const < 1237069452 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a constant pointer. < 1237069465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1237069476 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, "const char*" is a pointer to constant characters, while "char* const" is a constant pointer to (modifiable) characters. < 1237069492 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cdecl> explain char* const args[] < 1237069492 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :declare args as array of const pointer to char < 1237069494 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm does const commute with some of it? i.e. is const char * == char const * ? < 1237069501 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1237069522 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a long discussion about the benefits of "const char *" and "char const *" in the C++ FAQ. < 1237069528 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's about "business reasons". < 1237069532 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1237069573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those should be the same... < 1237069583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it would just be a matter of coding style -_- < 1237069612 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Fred const* x is functionally equivalent to const Fred* x. However, the real question is which should be used. < 1237069617 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Answer: absolutely no one should pretend they can make decisions for your organization until they know something about your organization. One size does not fit all; there is no "right" answer for all organizations, so do not allow anyone to make a knee-jerk decision in either direction. "Think" is not a four-letter word." < 1237069624 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a very typical piece of the C++ FAQ. < 1237069624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :char *const argv[restrict] <-- nice one from posix_spawn() < 1237069637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does *that* restrict change < 1237069646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1237069676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in an argument list this is pointer to array of pointers to null terminated strings < 1237069691 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the pointers to the strings are constant < 1237069696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and may not alias each other? < 1237069704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what bit does restrict there restrict < 1237069704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1237069710 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds reasonable, but it's a silly-looking place for the restrict. < 1237069725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : int posix_spawn(pid_t *restrict pid, const char *restrict path, < 1237069725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : const posix_spawn_file_actions_t *file_actions, < 1237069725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : const posix_spawnattr_t *restrict attrp, < 1237069725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : char *const argv[restrict], char *const envp[restrict]); < 1237069730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the full prototype < 1237069775 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To tell you the truth, I'm actually a bit surprised that it's legal. But my guess is that "char *const argv[restrict]" might be the same thing as "char *const *restrict argv", maybe. < 1237069776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may also indicate argv and envp can't alias each other < 1237069778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure < 1237069801 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, restrict is perfectly legal inside [] in argument lists < 1237069817 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, obviously, but it still looks silly. < 1237069833 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see where else it could be in a [] thing, so I guess there's not really an alternative. < 1237069842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, for example, this is valid: static inline void mulMatrices(const double a[restrict 16], const double b[restrict 16], double r[restrict 16]) < 1237069855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that is 16 as in size < 1237069868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16 restrict isn't valid though: < 1237069873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/home/arvid/src/cfunge/code-cleanup/src/fingerprints/3DSP/3DSP.c:139: error: expected ‘]’ before ‘restrict’ < 1237069970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, nice syntax eh? < 1237069972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ < 1237069999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:36 fizzie: You can do "animation" fast without screen-redrawing. As long as you're happy with just manipulating palette values. < 1237070001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ha < 1237070010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:46 fizzie: (And of course it also "buys you" a less silly color palette -- well, less silly for many uses -- than the default 256-color one.) < 1237070011 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, I'm not quite sure where else it could be, so I guess it makes sense; it just looks silly. < 1237070013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the values? < 1237070015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :32-bit colours or w/e? < 1237070025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:49 fizzie: Stop all the QBasic nonsense before I catch the qb bug too, though. I'm already very close to running dosbox; probably would've started it already, except I'm afraid it might use enough CPU to make the virtualbox windows vm get some audio-playing glitches. < 1237070027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dosbox uses like 0 cpu < 1237070030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do eet ;) < 1237070043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean qbasic is just awesome. < 1237070049 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and come to think of it, that virtualbox seems to use something like 10-30 % of one core, anyway. < 1237070062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many cores you got? < 1237070067 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just two. < 1237070074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me too! we're core-buddie. < 1237070075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :buddies < 1237070080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION only has one code < 1237070082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :core* < 1237070085 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The R/G/B values (each written separately) are 6-bit values, since VGA only does 18-bit colors. < 1237070097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm fizzie should I not get an 8-core so we can stay core buddies? :( < 1237070100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, however I do have root on a Quad Core Opetron server! < 1237070108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :legal root < 1237070113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pfft, quad core. < 1237070115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(of course) < 1237070121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my hypothetical 2xquad-core nehalem scoffs at you. < 1237070124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, model name : Quad-Core AMD Opteron(tm) Processor 1354 < 1237070128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't think that is too bad < 1237070159 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Go do 8-core if you want; I can just sum up different computers and pretend they're somehow metaphysically speaking part of the same system. < 1237070169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i tried that once < 1237070176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this room, I have 5 cores < 1237070177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1237070193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err 6 < 1237070193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just link a few erlang nodes :P < 1237070195 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Currently, there's only 2 cores in this room. I run old hardware. < 1237070197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 < 1237070201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, same < 1237070207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iMac: 2, ancient powermac: 1, iphone: 1, nintendo DS: 1, gamecube: 1, game boy advance sp: 1 < 1237070213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming I didn't miss anything < 1237070224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, most of those cores are ridiculously underpowered... < 1237070233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1237070238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :livebox runs linux so it must have some sort of cpu < 1237070238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 < 1237070247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey I don't need to buy an 8-core < 1237070250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have it already! < 1237070298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be nice if QBasic would work with, say, more than 80x24 < 1237070299 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the DS has two CPUs :) < 1237070299 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nintendo DS counts as two. < 1237070302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, you know, DOS in general < 1237070304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, the DS has two cpus? < 1237070310 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's both a 66 MHz and 33 MHz ARMs. < 1237070315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's some powah. < 1237070318 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an ARM9 and ARM7, I think < 1237070327 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ARM9 and ARM7; the ARM7 pretty much only does sound an input, though. < 1237070337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have 9 cores < 1237070340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :top of the range! < 1237070342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1237070372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Cassette tape support Yes No < 1237070373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aw bummer. < 1237070380 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :An unsubstantiated rumour says that in the official Nintendo dev-kit you can't really write custom code for the ARM7 anyway, there's just the Nintendo-provided binary that can handle sound-playing and other hardware functions unique to the ARM7 side. < 1237070381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Code organization Linear Modular < 1237070387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that referring to the awful F2 sub browser? < 1237070392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that hides subs from your main text? < 1237070411 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, probably. And maybe also the fact that you can actually have subs, although that's covered elsewhere too. < 1237070429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure even old BASICs had subs apart from really old ones < 1237070436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: your code prints out \ as \\, it's causing alignment issues < 1237070462 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I didn't de-escape that; probably didn't notice it either. < 1237070541 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have in this room two Athlon X2 dual-core things (sum: 4), two iBooks (sum: 6), and then all those "you can only non-seriously count these", like a DS (=8), a Symbian phone (=9), a Linksys WLAN thing (=10), and some even less-computery systems like the amplifier which has some sort of cpu/dsp dual-thing. I'm sure we can agree on some core-buddy number, though. < 1237070558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a DS has 8 cores? < 1237070559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What now? < 1237070560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1237070563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a running total < 1237070568 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just the cumulative sum, yes. < 1237070594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, a linksys router with 10 cores would be fun < 1237070622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so fizzie have you started up dosbox :P < 1237070636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recommend setting cpu cycles to 5000, it seems to run the most authentic while not being stupidly slow < 1237070650 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It depends on what you're running < 1237070664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, you probably want >5000 for QBasic games, given their dog-slowness. < 1237070688 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But is that authentic speed? < 1237070712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I'm operating ont he assumption that this game was actually playable in 1995 < 1237070716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As opposed to taking one second to turn < 1237070718 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not yet, no. I'm still just considering. For some reason dosbox's keyboard layout wasn't automagically okay either. < 1237070722 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My point was that 'authentic speed' depends on what you're doing, the emulation is slower for some apps than others < 1237070744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mm. < 1237070748 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I've seen some pretty unplayable qbasic "games". < 1237070778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even with cpu cycles 53000 it's too slow on some things < 1237070790 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Raising CPU cycles slows stuff down after a certain point < 1237070820 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the 'dynamic' mode, or whatever it was called, which often works best < 1237070829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll try that < 1237070846 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the on-x86-only binary translation thing, I guess. < 1237070888 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Since you're such a dosbox gooroo, how do I get my keyboard to work right? By default this seems like the US layout. < 1237070890 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1237070892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: that changed absolutely nothing. It just sticks at 3000 cycles. < 1237070901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1237070902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's core= < 1237070903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not cycles < 1237070905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dur < 1237070911 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Then it was something else, I don't remember what it's called but it removes the cycle count from the title bar < 1237070924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :core=dynamic < 1237070929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1237070933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sstill says cpu cycles, though < 1237070949 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I just spent half a day a few weeks back trying to get the layout to work right, the best I could do was an almost-working (backspace is both backspace and caps lock) US < 1237070962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't type \, it shows up as #. < 1237070976 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not really friendly to non-US layouts < 1237070982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a US layout. < 1237070986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Albeit an Apple one. < 1237070989 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking to fizzie < 1237070992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1237070994 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or in general < 1237070996 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I can't type #, it shows up as #. <-- say what? < 1237070998 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not to you in particular, anyway < 1237071006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: in DOSBox. < 1237071014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My \ key is just above my (one line) enter key. < 1237071039 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's strange, my # key is above 3. < 1237071040 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So anyway, a colemak layout with swapped caps lock and backspace was pretty much impossible to get to work < 1237071050 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In Windows, I got it to work really easily though < 1237071070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, even with cpu cycles: max this game is ridiculously slow < 1237071117 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, there's that ctrl-f1 keymapper, can that do something useful? < 1237071118 0 :Corun!n=Corun@93-97-219-19.zone5.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1237071125 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I couldn't get it to work right < 1237071133 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It thought right alt was page down < 1237071136 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And other stuff like that < 1237071151 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I'll just use the US layout since it seems to work right. < 1237071153 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there were two possible keyboard modes in the .conf file < 1237071175 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other one worked like that (not at all) and the other one worked partly, can't remember how exactly < 1237071188 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the end I just stuck with US with broken backspace < 1237071195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :broken backspace, that must be a pain < 1237071201 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, backspace works < 1237071214 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: < 1237071214 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: 2009-03-14 23:49:08 ( Deewiant) fizzie: I just spent half a day a few weeks back trying to get the layout to work right, the best I could do was an almost-working (backspace is both backspace and caps lock) US < 1237071223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1237071236 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a ZX Spectrum+ on which backspace is 0 over 90% of the time < 1237071240 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a pain < 1237071241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, fizzie, I recommend you set: < 1237071243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cycles=max < 1237071245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the configuration < 1237071252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's still dog slow, but you can write QBasic programs and have them finish before you die. < 1237071287 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"D'oh, typo. D'oh, zero! D'oh, zero! (...) Yay, backspace! D'oh, didn't hold it down, still 60 zeroes before my typo" < 1237071305 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the mouse won't work, but I'm not sure I'd be using that much. F6 for window-swapping feels a bit silly though. < 1237071331 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't have mouse trouble < 1237071370 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I click the window so that it captures the mouse, I can only move the cursor up and down on the rightmost column of the screen. < 1237071413 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the more important thing is that I have no clue what to do with qbasic. < 1237071434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You type, and F5 runs. < 1237071438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ctrl-Break terminates. < 1237071443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can open, save, find, replace. < 1237071445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And F2 browses subs. < 1237071450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For all else, see your manual. :P < 1237071456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Yes, I am deliberately misinterpreting) < 1237071499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa. I just sped my program up like 5x by using POKE instead of pset. < 1237071499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1237071602 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How did you interrupt this thing again? I didn't follow that part of the conversation. :p < 1237071610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ctrl-Break. < 1237071618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which doesn't work for me but there you go < 1237071638 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It didn't really want to work for me either. < 1237071646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Try alt-Break. < 1237071648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just Break. < 1237071649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shift-Break. < 1237071650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc. < 1237071657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ctrl-Shift-Break. blah blah < 1237071664 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alt-Break changed the window title to be QBASIC PAUSED, that's about it. < 1237071689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm second < 1237071732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1237071734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ctrl-break ESC < 1237071744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, but alt-braek froze it < 1237071745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't do tha < 1237071747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trestart dosbox :P < 1237071763 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alt-break here just pauses it, and a second alt-break restores. < 1237071768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1237071771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then ctrl-break ESC. < 1237071774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh, also, a note < 1237071784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For actual lines, use LINE, it's faster than repeated POKEs < 1237071790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :POKE is just fast for single pixel thangz. < 1237071799 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, a qbasic loop is slow-as-molasses. < 1237071819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did ctrl-break esc work for you? < 1237071841 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It had already finished; I'll try when I get stuck next. < 1237071864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm being transported back to good old days I never had :P < 1237071926 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had some qbasic days, and I'm not sure they were especially good. I think the Commodore kids and such got all the good old days, while PC people just got the sucky old days. < 1237071943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, QBasic is pretty cool. < 1237072171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1237072172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: try < 1237072177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ctrl-scrollock ESC < 1237072204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1237072205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works < 1237072207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact < 1237072210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just ctrl-scrollock < 1237072211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no ESC < 1237072212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works perfectly < 1237072242 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@e-44.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1237072246 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, seems to. Good. < 1237072270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Demoscene law dictates that I now write a mandelbrot renderer that twirls it around. < 1237072295 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will not be very fast. < 1237072311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, a mandelbrot viewer came with QBasic, apparently. < 1237072315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's gotta be possible. < 1237072322 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, just not very fast. < 1237072327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sides, I can use inline machine code. < 1237072365 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yes, the comfortable solution. < 1237072387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, there's nothing you can't do with QBasic! < 1237072460 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Anyway, here's one palette-rotation example for you, if you can bother waiting for it to finish drawing: http://zem.fi/~fis/prot.txt < 1237072483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's scarily ... organized. < 1237072525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Heyyy, that's my fractal! < 1237072530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DD < 1237072538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoa it changes colour. < 1237072540 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, it's the ehird fractal. < 1237072542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best program ever. < 1237072647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Try replacing (X AND Y) with (X OR Y). < 1237072652 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, "changes colour" is pretty much what you get with palette-messups. As far as graphics chipsets go, VGA is pretty boring. < 1237072661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the same! < 1237072715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: wtf, XOR produces it too < 1237072719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there any operation that DOESN'T produce it? < 1237072732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XOR's pallette changing is diagonal, which is nice. < 1237072741 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are those bitwise or boolean operations? < 1237072745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bitwise < 1237072756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: (X + Y) gives a smooth gradient < 1237072782 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, that's just "manhattan-distance from (0,0)" and the palette happens to be a smooth gradient. < 1237072789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha :D < 1237072829 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X IMP Y gives it to you in a bit different orientation, but most bitwise ops do "look" rather similar when done that way. < 1237072847 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X EQV Y is perhaps a bit different-looking. < 1237072866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err it is < 1237072867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1237072869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks the same to me < 1237072873 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also has a bit of a "straight line looks curved" visual illusion going on, or maybe it's just my eyes that are wonky. < 1237072880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1237072883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: EQV is XOR < 1237072884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for this < 1237072894 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, I didn't try XOR. But yes, sure. < 1237072914 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just NOT (x XOR y) anyway. < 1237072918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish it wrapped on overflow instead of errored < 1237072958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: anyway, that palette changing would indeed be useful to animate without redrawing anyhting < 1237072969 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EQV and XOR are dual. (NOT x) EQV (NOT y) = NOT (x XOR y) < 1237073022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, how do you convert a string to an int... < 1237073045 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The canonical palette-animation example is an animated sea: just allocate 8 or 16 colors for a blue-white gradient, use that to draw your sea tiles, then you can rotate that 16-color block to get waves. < 1237073092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://zem.fi/~fis/qbc.html#QEw4MDI1 < 1237073102 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CVI(string) converts to an integer. < 1237073111 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And CVL to long. < 1237073122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1237073143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure? < 1237073149 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in CVI("123")=123 < 1237073153 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really, no. < 1237073158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :VAL converts a string representation of a number to a number. < 1237073159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's VAL. < 1237073177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, this is very slow but pretty. < 1237073184 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CVI is the inverse of MKI$, which is for formatted int-printing. < 1237073198 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STR$/VAL seems to be the human-readable pair. < 1237073204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw, overflow. < 1237073205 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really remember any of this stuff. < 1237073220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. < 1237073222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Hokay. < 1237073227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What now, hrm < 1237073287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://library.thinkquest.org/19436/download/gorilla/gorilla.bas < 1237073292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gorilla.bas; albeit double spaced. < 1237073306 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exciting! < 1237073307 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That thing would be useful (in a very limited sort of way) for quick prototyping of... well, something; if it were, you know, quick. < 1237073321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"thing"? < 1237073326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QBasic? < 1237073329 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qbasic. < 1237073342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am very upset you do not consider it a viable programming choice :P < 1237073371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GORILLAS RUNS :D < 1237073381 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*RUN < 1237073417 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or possibly, *GORILLA < 1237073481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IF again$ = "y" THEN GOTO spam < 1237073606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, setting gravity=-1 in gorillas messes everything up < 1237073623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :velocity 1? the banana just shoots off into space. veeery slowly. < 1237073919 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, VGA can do this unchained mode, where you get four 64K planes, with plane 0 containing pixels 0, 4, 8, .., plane 1 containing 1, 5, 9, ... and so on; then you can set a write mask of 0b1111 and write a pixel to all four planes simultaneously; that's quite a bit faster if you just need to write the same value to all pixels. < 1237073962 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(And of course it lets you use all the 256K memory a VGA card has, so you can do double-buffering with hardware-assisted page-flipping.) < 1237073969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1237073974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there any way to have more than one palette at a time? < 1237073984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, changing the palette in the middle of a redraw? < 1237073989 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that things are more complicated then, and whenever you add a bit of qbasic logic, things get real slow real fast. < 1237074000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you could have >256 colours < 1237074039 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I've seen such tricks done on a PC, really. I don't think you can get any interrupts at particular raster-lines or anything. < 1237074054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mm. So drawing is atomic, then. < 1237074054 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd need some pretty careful cycle-counting, at the very least. < 1237074071 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not very doable in a qbasic program. < 1237074076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what if you drew only some of the pixels per redraw, and flashed between them really fast? I guess the hardware isnt' fast enough to make that plausible < 1237074108 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server" < 1237074131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: link to haccordion? < 1237074135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since I have leopard now < 1237074185 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I'm sure you can flash between two screens at 60hz (it's just a couple of writes to the VGA registers to switch the display start offset) so you can draw two pictures with close-enough colors, and that way get colors between the ones in the (static) palette, if you don't mind the horrible flickering. < 1237074195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: in asm it could be fast enough. maybe? < 1237074206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, N segments gives you 256*N colours < 1237074219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you have a segment per pixel the possibilities [for your epilepsy] are boundless < 1237074270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Okay this is subjective because it depends on your definition of large. When I say large, I mean about 6 gigs or so. Because your company's source tree is probably that large." < 1237074274 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can fit up to four frames of that 320x200 256-color mode on the standard video memory. I really don't have a clue how slow the palette reprogramming is. < 1237074274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is one shit company. < 1237074457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hokay, mandelbrot. < 1237074462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's see if I can't done figure this out? < 1237074758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait < 1237074810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh dear, my mandelbrot leavs a flat nothing,. < 1237074994 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-2 to 2 on both axes if you want all of it < 1237074996 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1237075004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, it's just a bug. < 1237075006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. < 1237075009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe not quite a bug, just. < 1237075012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It takes 5 years. < 1237075087 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the (-2,-2) .. (2,2) range is not the aesthetically most pleasing one. I don't remember what I've used, though. That certainly should contain all of it, anyway, so you can fine-tune. < 1237075128 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :might do something refining, painting larger squares first < 1237075156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh well, I'll stick to simpler fractals. < 1237075167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can render a sierpinski in 4.5 seconds, you know. < 1237075184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually it's more like 8 seconds < 1237075772 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Reboot" < 1237075918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: do you think I should write a simple math plotter thingy in qbasic, or will I go mad from the whole "parsing infix" thing? < 1237075928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:51:34 my laptop is the brokenness now. :( < 1237075928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:51:39 "was fun while it lasted". < 1237075930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :09:52:08 although in retrospect ~1550eur was a bit much for a machine that worked for six days. < 1237075933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— 2004-09-23 < 1237075961 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that was the iBook. They (of course) warranty-replaced it. < 1237076008 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Parsing infix isn't *that* bad. It is at least context-free... < 1237076029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: In QBasic. < 1237076057 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mooz, who used to be here around the beginning, wrote a really nice function-plotter, with a nice GUI and 3d-like buttons and everything, in QBasic. < 1237076075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:58:08 mooz at least wrote a.. pretty advanced one, in qbasic. < 1237076075 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :operator parsing is simpler than general < 1237076080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right after plotting discussion. < 1237076084 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kay, so that's slightly annoying. < 1237076088 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not hard, though. < 1237076089 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Heh. Well, he did. < 1237076092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, if you're going to say something, think if I've already been on that trail ;-) < 1237076102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my idea is basically a trivial input language, that is, < 1237076124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basic mathematical notation like sin(x) or whatever, then it'd prompt for a range for x, then you get a plot drawn in 10 minutes. < 1237076168 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I also mentioned that it was a high-school exercise. (Although the exercise was just "plot polynomials", mooz's solution was the typical overkill one.) < 1237076192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2006-12-02:20:44:13 I remember longing for arrays when I coded in qbasic < 1237076193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they exist, dude. :P < 1237076203 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What sort of coder *wouldn't* go for overkill (if time allows)? < 1237076219 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I need to say anything any longer, since apparently I've already said it before. < 1237076229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2007-10-26:12:28:50 pset is the QBASIC name for the pixel-set function < 1237076230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no no < 1237076236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's POKE x+(y*w),col < 1237076238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :slly. < 1237076244 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yeah you said so before < 1237076310 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's also (IIRC) faster, if you're plotting all pixels of the screen in a "for y = ... for x = ..." loop, to keep a incremented index p for the POKE and not recalculate x+(y*w) every time. Doesn't help for the generic pixel-setting case, of course. < 1237076341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how easy a voxel renderer would be in qbasic < 1237076341 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so POKE is not arbitrary memory assignment? < 1237076347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: it is < 1237076347 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also might not be faster, since it's a whole basic statement to increment p. I did benchmark. < 1237076347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do < 1237076349 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: It... Is. < 1237076351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEF SEG = &HA000 < 1237076354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to get into graphics memory < 1237076360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so then all your POKEs are offsetted from the start of graphics memory < 1237076364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so POKE x+(y*w) works < 1237076366 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1237076377 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God, doing VGA from BASIC... < 1237076380 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wondered why you had no base offset < 1237076389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: What's odd about that? :P < 1237076393 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The pointer taken by POKE is just the 16-bit intra-segment address. < 1237076395 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86 is silly. < 1237076396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, it DID come with tons of drawing functions. < 1237076429 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still find it weird for a normal program to be doing anything to video memory. < 1237076433 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha so it's x86 specific < 1237076440 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and yes, I know that's how X does things) < 1237076467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DOS is x86 specific. < 1237076469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I know. < 1237076472 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Yeah; x86 has the graphic memory mmaped at a few places... < 1237076549 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Unless by "DOS" you mean "anything that was called a Disk Operating System". ;) < 1237076557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1237076565 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ProDOS FTW. :p < 1237076569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, for full-screen thingies, LINE is really really fast. < 1237076573 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On a x86 (but not a x86-64) Linux, you can cat /proc/iomem to see some of the mappings. < 1237076575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LINE (0,0)-(320,200),I,BF < 1237076578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fills the screen instantly < 1237076601 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I just did cat /proc/iomem on my x86_64 system. < 1237076606 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: me too! < 1237076608 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems to show all the mappings. < 1237076620 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't know what mappings there should be < 1237076631 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My x86-64 system doesn't have those 000a0000 video-memory thingsies that there used to be. < 1237076644 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only my 32-bit thing shows them: < 1237076647 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :000a0000-000bffff : Video RAM area < 1237076647 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :000c0000-000cb3ff : Video ROM < 1237076647 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :000cc000-000cc7ff : Adapter ROM < 1237076661 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00010000-0009cbff : System RAM < 1237076676 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, *those*. < 1237076685 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's what we were talking about. < 1237076689 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: fills the screen? wouldn't that be a rectangle rather than a line? < 1237076709 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: That's the BF modifier. :p < 1237076717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: Thus "BF" < 1237076725 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The B modifier draws a box instead of line, the BF modifier draws a filled box. < 1237076735 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's just CIRCLE, LINE and PSET, pretty much. < 1237076766 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and PAINT, of course. Which does a flood-fill type of thing. < 1237076771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't forget DRAW! < 1237076785 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DRAW is very unsimple, though. < 1237076800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but, < 1237076803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enemy$ = "asd8uA(*EU*(UQ*(" < 1237076809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't beat it for defining sprites. < 1237076832 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure, and it might even be reasonably fast, since it's not implemented in qbasic. < 1237076878 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1237076906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ■ To execute a DRAW command substring from a DRAW command string, use < 1237076906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : the "X" command: < 1237076908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : DRAW "X"+ VARPTR$(commandstring$) < 1237076910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ I don't get this < 1237076912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just < 1237076914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DRAW commandstring$ < 1237076949 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want to refer from your "top-level" command string to sub-scripts, that's what X is for. < 1237076962 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That particular example doesn't really make sense, though. < 1237076986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:29 fizzie: If you want to refer from your "top-level" command string to sub-scripts, that's what X is for. < 1237076987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1237076997 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just look at that other example. < 1237077011 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Triangle$ = "..."; DRAW "C2 X" + VARPTR($Triangle) < 1237077015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : DRAW "C2 X" + VARPTR$(Triangle$) < 1237077017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that could just be < 1237077021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : DRAW "C2 " + Triangle$ < 1237077028 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but then you'd be constructing a possibly really long string. < 1237077033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. < 1237077034 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you have a complicated Triangle$. < 1237077048 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if it supports nested X, though. :p < 1237077099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, drawing a circle with DRAW is a pani in the arse < 1237077101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*pain < 1237077116 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I think is funny is that the X argument is a raw memory offset to the variable. < 1237077146 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :panis rectalis < 1237077215 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... rectal bread? < 1237077225 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes. < 1237077231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DD < 1237077240 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that what "PR" means in context of, you know, business stuff and so on? < 1237077258 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously. < 1237077321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMFG < 1237077322 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: < 1237077325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sighted the ehird fractal < 1237077326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.advsys.net/ken/klab/labdemo2.png < 1237077332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:30:54 I think I'm going to try porting this next: http://www.advsys.net/ken/klab/labdemo2.bas < 1237077332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:31:19 it's supposed to look like this when it runs: http://www.advsys.net/ken/klab/labdemo2.png < 1237077335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:31:47 I've done raytraced 2.5d before, but I've never tried texture-mapping < 1237077337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm famous IN THE PAST> < 1237077427 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1237077450 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't get it < 1237077461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the squares < 1237077466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://imgur.com/5ZN9A.png < 1237077481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a fractal that we've established predates me by a long way but I think it's mine :P < 1237077516 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-133-63.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1237077733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://www.advsys.net/ken/klab/labdemo2.bas < 1237077773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"CALL int86old" makes it, uh, not run. < 1237077773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1237077777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"unless you're stuck using qbasic" < 1237077777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1237077781 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fractal squatting. the possibilities are endless. < 1237077817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it runs. < 1237077820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just... sloowly... < 1237077824 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, xkcd already established that the internet is a hilbert curve. < 1237077825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in, several seconds per key. < 1237077832 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's for quickbasic. (And even there it's not in the manual, because it's been sort-of-deprecated with the CALL INTERRUPT statement.) < 1237077859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, ti works in qbasic. < 1237077862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you comment that out. < 1237077866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's as slow as imaginable, but. < 1237077877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone have quickbasic? :P < 1237077886 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, somewhere. < 1237077897 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure it's findable in the interwebs too, might even be faster that way. < 1237077909 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qb4.5 is the version I've seen "everywhere". < 1237077924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It even uses POKEs and it's still slow < 1237077954 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I think I might've found my copy. < 1237077962 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least there's qb.arj in this tarball. < 1237077975 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also sbbasic.exe, I wonder what that does. < 1237077999 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :molasses basic. when you have too much time on your hands. < 1237078029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that exists, it's called qbasic < 1237078043 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's an oxymoron? < 1237078052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qbasic != quickbasic < 1237078072 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait, does that need to be contradictory from the words themselves? < 1237078081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A subset of QuickBASIC 4.5, named QBasic, was included with MS-DOS 5 and later versions, replacing the GW-BASIC included with previous versions of MS-DOS. Compared to QuickBASIC, QBasic is limited to an interpreter only, lacks a few functions, can only handle programs of a limited size, and lacks support for separate program modules. Since it lacks a compiler, it cannot be used to produce executable files, although its program source code can still be co < 1237078084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mpiled by a QuickBASIC 4.5, PDS 7.x or VBDOS 1.0 compiler, if available. < 1237078102 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, sbbasic is just some sound blaster drivers. :p < 1237078143 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm maybe that's actually irony < 1237078177 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so q stands for "so slow we didn't have time to write it out"? < 1237078195 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, qb.arj had QuickBasic 4.5. < 1237078218 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's got a lot longer manual, btw; in multiple files and everything. < 1237078251 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I think it was longer, not sure < 1237078280 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And of course it has the Run/Make EXE file... option. < 1237078362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: < 1237078389 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1237078390 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1237078392 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1237078398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haccordion < 1237078399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gimme :-P < 1237078437 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme findit < 1237078548 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://filebin.ca/vcfm/haccordion.tar.gz < 1237078557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yaey < 1237078573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey guys an unknown informant has just given me quickbasic if anyone wants it let me know. < 1237078626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1237078628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it really is quick < 1237078632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it runs my sierpinski program in <1sec < 1237078633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1237078776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1237078778 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they added some delay loops to qbasic so that people would be more inclined to buy. < 1237078785 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on one hand I like qbasic because it's slow and you have to do crazy trix < 1237078791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand < 1237078794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is acutally usable < 1237078835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, int86old doesn't work, fizzie < 1237078837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's undefined < 1237078875 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might have a bit different syntax in qb45 than what the file expects. < 1237078877 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Checking. < 1237078916 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno, http://support.microsoft.com/kb/57385 claims it's still in qb45. < 1237078949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it needs UPPER CASE < 1237078962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nope < 1237079042 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1237079047 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might need a library. < 1237079064 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You should probably fix Options/Set Paths... anyway. < 1237079068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf, CALL INTERRUPT fails. < 1237079072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: aha < 1237079109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1237079157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you add a library, I wonder.. < 1237079163 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although it should load the default QB.QLB by default. Who knows. < 1237079166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1237079170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$INCLUDE:'QB.BI' < 1237079190 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1237079211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that gives a syntax error >_< < 1237079248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1237079251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's meant to go in a comment. < 1237079268 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Uh, you got BI.LIB? < 1237079283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1237079284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QB.LIB < 1237079304 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QB.LIB should be in the package. < 1237079318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah < 1237079319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it is < 1237079323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No QB.BI, though. < 1237079405 0 :Corun!n=Corun@93-97-202-25.zone5.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1237079444 0 :neldoret1!n=user@81-223-127-237.stpeter.xdsl-line.inode.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1237079608 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, no. I'm not completely sure that is a complete set of qb45 files. < 1237079626 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It probably has a rather colorful history before getting to me. < 1237079862 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey. < 1237079871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey. < 1237079895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: what do I have to turn on again? < 1237079899 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This msbasic-softlib thing, where I got the helpmake thing for .hlp decompilation, also has qb4crit.exe, which has qb.lib, int86old.asm, int86old.obj and something like that. < 1237079906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I have qb.lib < 1237079913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not qb.bi < 1237079915 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It might be a better qb.lib, who knows. < 1237079926 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And anyway int86old.obj. < 1237079994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: < 1237079997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% ./play_note < 1237079997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :play_note: Prelude.(!!): index too large < 1237080025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah wait < 1237080026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works now < 1237080088 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, what is QB.BI supposed to do? int86old definitely is somehow included in qb.lib, since strings shows a lot of related strings. < 1237080094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: header file < 1237080205 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1237080210 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's in http://neil.franklin.ch/Projects/Mandel/qb/qb.bi < 1237080218 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks like just a couple of DECLARE SUB lines. < 1237080242 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, the directory sounds like a mandelbrot plotterer. < 1237080256 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :No route to host < 1237080270 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have to sleepify now, though. < 1237080286 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brains.. < 1237080292 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, that's zombify < 1237080328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: < 1237080330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works < 1237080335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only issue now is my suckitude at musak < 1237080341 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION laments that it works < 1237080355 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1237080355 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woe us! < 1237080465 0 :Corun_!n=Corun@93-97-202-25.zone5.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1237080710 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1237080745 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: now you just have to learn to play the accordion < 1237080759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: I see no resemblance on haccordion :P < 1237080760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, let's make an awful rhyming poem about fish and their use of intercal in an enterprise environment < 1237080778 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suppose we cod do that < 1237080779 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: same layout < 1237080799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: well, true < 1237080806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: these fish, see, they're very fat < 1237080834 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you trying to make a pun here? < 1237080852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: THAT WAS MY NEXT LINE ;_; < 1237080925 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fishing lines need bait, you know < 1237080930 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1237080957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: and anyway, these fish used INTERCAL, so < 1237081065 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i sense a lack of substance here. or perhaps the wrong substance, what are you smoking? < 1237081087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: are these part of the poem? they're not very rhymey. < 1237081106 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or perhaps it's just because i'm not very good at english fish names < 1237081134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghoti < 1237081172 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i shaw that coming < 1237081221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these fish were hummin < 1237081251 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just for the halibut < 1237081271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for they had many butt. s. and used INTERCAL, < 1237081310 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was an eel-advised choice < 1237081321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they turned to james joyce < 1237081338 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but still they could not pronounce it < 1237081384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and thus, they used unary XOR to denounce it < 1237081406 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the eel was very XORry < 1237081430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the damage it had caused; and they SELECTed some bits from its tears, < 1237081489 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and STASHed them behind their ears < 1237081550 0 :judicaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and fulfilled everybody's worst fears < 1237081554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1237081556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^U < 1237081556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^U < 1237081557 0 :judicaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I < 1237081558 0 :judicaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ruined it < 1237081559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^U < 1237081561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^U < 1237081566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and said, "PLEASE DON'T GIVE UP", we're right behind you < 1237081638 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was all a red herring, mind you < 1237081650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they rhymed you with you < 1237081737 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite insane, it seems, i find you < 1237081756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, but, then, I climbed mount everest. < 1237081760 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then they destroyed the meter with glue < 1237081762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the fishes, on dishes, and, < 1237081850 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a seagull too < 1237081860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a < 1237081864 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(named Jonathan) < 1237081870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a (named Jonathan) Jonathan < 1237081878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ Ed: Please be less like Finnegan's Wake in future. ] < 1237081892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :—uture–uture, Fish, INTERCAL, < 1237081901 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then they down the riverrun < 1237081913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alpyalpy < 1237081916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alpy, what was that? < 1237081918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right, fish, < 1237081940 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fishy fishy fishy fishy fishy fishy fish < 1237081955 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then they won the prize for the fishiest poetry in that decade < 1237081958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then an explosion < 1237081988 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then an implosion < 1237081989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wibby rollins < 1237081990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wibby rollins < 1237081991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wibby rollins < 1237081993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wibby rollins < 1237081994 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope you are writing this down < 1237082000 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we can burn it later < 1237082000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[oerjan: i have grep.] < 1237082009 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can we burn the entire channel? < 1237082018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Fish sayd; "Byrn the wytch! Wemyst hafst only INTERCVL"; < 1237082073 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently we are smoking trout, all of us. < 1237082084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trout? Well, I was on weed, but... < 1237082087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(^lie) < 1237082116 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it's the unvarnished trout < 1237082163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, just go route < 1237082166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these IP addresses < 1237082178 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope it will be a whale before we try something this stupid again < 1237082214 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i hear VB is good for such stuff < 1237082229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gui vsual interface riverrun < 1237082270 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The End. < 1237082292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except that was fake; < 1237082294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i the author lie < 1237082300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~THE END~ < 1237082306 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh jesus < 1237082314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut < 1237082315 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whew < 1237082321 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this code has been running for like 18 hours < 1237082339 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i expected it to take like 1 hour < 1237082341 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: oh, i thought you too were afraid that the poem would go on longer < 1237082361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ditto < 1237082364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1237082483 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a bit short on rhyming, but i think we nailed the "awful" part. < 1237082512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fishherel < 1237082517 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this puts us on the same level with the greats like e.e.cummings < 1237082542 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wish i saw that cummings < 1237083038 0 :[helloworld]!n=[hellowo@62.87.208.174 JOIN :#esoteric < 1237083049 0 :[helloworld]!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1237084229 0 :Corun_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1237085301 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1237085354 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-133-63.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1237087259 0 :neldoret1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1237088097 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1237090158 0 :judicaster!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :comex < 1237093376 0 :kerlo_!n=ihope@normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1237093401 0 :kerlo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1237094589 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1237103999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1237104000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1237105146 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1237107403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : [ Ed: Please be less like Finnegan's Wake in future. ] <-- :DDDD < 1237107479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird and oerjan: that was very entertaining :D < 1237107656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about counting CPU cores... < 1237107698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that there are 11 cores in this house atm. Counting computers and mobile phones. ;D < 1237107821 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you count the microwave? < 1237107833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, we don't have one < 1237107858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, and our TV is too old to have a computer in it. It doesn't even support Text TV < 1237107872 0 :neldoreth!n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth JOIN :#esoteric < 1237107881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess the VCR has some computer in it though. < 1237107885 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1237107901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, what about fridge/freezer? < 1237107909 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully not < 1237107917 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should just be a simple thermostat < 1237107922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1237107924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dishwasher? < 1237107934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :washing machine? < 1237107937 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue, possibly < 1237107960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both the dishwasher and the washing machine have digital time remaining displays < 1237107968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and are quite new < 1237108016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I forgot the ADSL modem. It runs on a MIPS. < 1237108035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some broadcom chipset thingy iirc < 1237108174 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Quit: Quit: Quit: Quit: Quit: Quit: Quit: Quit: Quit: Quit" < 1237108177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, my radio is sufficiently complex and with a menu system on the display, so I guess that is another CPU there... < 1237108222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and digital cameras. That adds another two CPUs at least (two digital cameras in this house) < 1237108254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, when you think about it, it is scary how many things contain CPUs... < 1237108273 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you think about it, it's scary how many things contain gears < 1237108304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh right, my keyboard (as in keyboard/synth, not keyboard/qwerty) < 1237108320 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually perhaps even keyboard/qwerty < 1237108324 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on the keyboard < 1237108336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, I doubt an old PS/2 keyboard has a computer built in < 1237108345 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, maybe not < 1237108362 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've read somewhere some keyboards actually have forth stuff on them < 1237108409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also have one of those horrible ultra-slim usb keyboard, I guess it contains some more stuff, but a full blown CPU? < 1237108431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, to that I say: [citation needed] < 1237108449 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to that, I say: [lmgify] < 1237108484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does that mean? Google says: Did you mean: magnify Top 2 results shown < 1237108486 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1237108509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, ? < 1237108536 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, it's lmgtfy < 1237108566 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-18-85.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1237108579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I see < 1237108633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I suspect my usb joystick has some CPU built in. Considering it has a programmable "multi function display" at the base of the throttle < 1237108688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(btw: http://www.saitek.com/uk/prod/x52pro.htm) < 1237111674 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@a-61.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1237112464 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"@+" < 1237114349 0 :Jophish_!n=Jophish@80-47-79-201.lond-hex.dynamic.dial.as9105.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1237114916 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-7-169.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1237115461 0 :Jophish!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Success < 1237116918 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-027-168.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1237118029 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c0796BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1237118120 0 :Judofyr_!n=Judofyr@c0796BF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1237118508 0 :Mony!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-93-123.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1237118595 0 :Dewio!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1237118604 0 :Dewi!n=dewi@124-171-184-160.dyn.iinet.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1237119081 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1237119373 0 :Jophish_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1237119697 0 :k!n=kar8nga@e-172.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1237119719 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1237119722 0 :k!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :kar8nga < 1237119968 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-37-207.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1237121267 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1237121531 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1237122877 0 :Corun!n=Corun@93-97-202-25.zone5.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1237122961 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1237123156 0 :Asztal^_^!n=asztal@cpc2-stkn13-2-0-cust73.11-2.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1237123320 0 :Asztal^_^!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Asztal_ < 1237123323 0 :Hiato!n=1@dsl-245-1-23.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1237124113 0 :oklofok!n=nnscript@a91-153-121-248.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1237124117 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello. < 1237124133 0 :Azstal!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1237124539 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vjn.fi/oklopol/music/ancoolone2.mid see what the lack of a working computer is doing to me < 1237125242 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Criminal. < 1237127407 0 :tombom!i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1237127692 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=BeholdMy@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1237129653 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Peace and Protection 4.22.2" < 1237130481 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1237130534 0 :Corun!n=Corun@93-97-202-25.zone5.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1237133098 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1237133730 0 :Hiato1!n=1@dsl-245-1-23.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1237134790 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1237135251 0 :FireyFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1237135428 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1237135622 0 :Corun!n=Corun@93-97-202-25.zone5.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1237135783 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=BeholdMy@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1237136355 0 :tombom!i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1237136687 0 :ais523!i=93bcf425@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-6efe39c86ac62b00 JOIN :#esoteric < 1237136771 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@e-243.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1237139058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1237139073 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1237139119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is quite likely cfunge will gain some inline asm soon (with C fallbacks of course). I can't find any other way to make GCC generate what I want. < 1237139161 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1237139233 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1237139258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well issue is I have a lot of L2 cache misses when filling the static area with spaces at startup. With SSE there is a way around it, with the same effect as write-combining would have. < 1237139289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you're insane. But I don't consider that a bad thing < 1237139349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, when I tried with __builtin_ia32_movntps() GCC instead generates stupid "lets load the data into the xmm register with the slower unaligned read instruction even though the compiler put .align 16 in the code to make it aligned" < 1237139411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, gcc isn't perfect < 1237139414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how well does icc do on the same code? < 1237139416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway with -ftree-vectorize you get instead a "lets pollute cache". < 1237139433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well, I'm on AMD. But it decides to pollute cache too < 1237139458 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, hand-crafted asm can normally beat even the best compiler-generated asm in some cases < 1237139517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well at least when it is being as stupid as in this case. Now to figure out how to hide this for other compilers. Since most seems to define __GNUC__ these days (to be able to parse system headers...) < 1237139540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#if defined(__x86_64__) && defined(__GNUC__) && defined(__SSE__) && defined(__SSE2__) && !defined(__INTEL_COMPILER) < 1237139548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that fixes it for the x86_64 variant < 1237139553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haven't written a 32-bit one yet < 1237139568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also no idea how clang will handle it. Clang defines __GNUC__ too < 1237139572 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you going to write an inline asm version for gcc-bf? < 1237139578 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I must get less busy in RL so I can finish it < 1237139582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hah < 1237139602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, icc fails on labels in inline asm for some reason < 1237139604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonder why... < 1237139664 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wishes that non-GNU C compilers would not define __GNUC__. < 1237139675 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION also wishes that system headers wouldn't require __GNUC__. < 1237139678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, same < 1237139683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://paste.lisp.org/display/77071 btw < 1237139686 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what I have atm < 1237139692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what do you think of it? < 1237139707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indention is off yes < 1237139724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it looks insanely platform-specific < 1237139731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you're doing this just to fill memory with spaces? < 1237139736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I have fallbacks as you see < 1237139742 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what if you put a load of literal spaces in the initialised read-write data section instead? < 1237139749 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would that be faster or slower? < 1237139755 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh < 1237139763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I would get a very large binary < 1237139776 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes, but would that slow the program down? < 1237139778 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose it would < 1237139782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(gdb) print sizeof(static_space) < 1237139782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$1 = 2097152 < 1237139787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is quite large < 1237139804 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jebus. < 1237139816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1237139823 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is rather large. < 1237139829 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: typical C++ program size... < 1237139836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well cfunge is in C < 1237139845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it is likely faster to do it this way than read it from disk < 1237139845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1237139850 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I mean 2MB isn't insanely large < 1237139855 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, reading it from disk might be slow < 1237139870 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it's in disk cache, how slow is blitting the initialisation from disk cache to processor cahce? < 1237139873 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*cache? < 1237139880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course for optimal performance you should use a ram disk for cfunge < 1237139881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1237139885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION runs < 1237139898 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, insane alternative: instead of storing fungespace as-is in memory, store everything with 32 subtracted from it < 1237139911 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and allow for that whenever you do reads or writes < 1237139915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also no idea, but why would it need to go to CPU then? RAM-RAM DMA? < 1237139932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that would mess up the range... < 1237139939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ a few other things < 1237139948 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes, but all those problems can be dealt with < 1237139956 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering how costy the code for dealing with them would be < 1237139961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably more than this < 1237139967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this way is rather fast actually < 1237139980 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And then, you could have the fungespace stored in the uninitialised read-write data section. ;) < 1237139982 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well, then, let's stick to inline asm for filling memory with spaces < 1237140015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and well -ftree-vectorize can be used on any platform and work on the C fallback loop. Which is still better than non-vectorised. < 1237140027 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you need at least a 66-bit CPU to fit all of fungespace in memory, assuming an 8-bit word length < 1237140032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact I would generally recommend using -ftree-vectorize for cfunge < 1237140038 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in practice, probably 67-bit, to fit other things in there as well < 1237140047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's assuming 32-bit int, which on a 67-bit processor is unlikely < 1237140052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :66-bit CPU? < 1237140068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: there's nothing mathematically impossible about that, it would just be unusual < 1237140088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well yeah. if x87 uses 80-bit floats... Why not. < 1237140127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :80 bits, aligned to 96 bits (x86) or 128 bits (x86_64) in memory < 1237140139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1237140169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw I ran into a weird issue with inline asm < 1237140185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: [space] "=m"(static_space) that expands to: static_space(%rip) < 1237140196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I couldn't use it, since I needed to offset it by %rax < 1237140211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still had to list it as out var < 1237140222 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I suspect PAE on x86_64 would barely suffice. ;) < 1237140240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: heh < 1237140275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, err. A 32-bit funge implementation would use a funge space that consists of 2^32 * 2^32 cells. Each cell is 32 bits < 1237140282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, assuming 16-bit ints, you could probably fit the whole thing into memory on some 64-bit computers available nowadays < 1237140286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not exactly < 1237140290 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it is signed < 1237140312 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: signed/unsigned makes no difference to the number of bits < 1237140321 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just different ways to interpret bit patterns < 1237140323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well it makes to number of cells < 1237140326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc? < 1237140328 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't < 1237140331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1237140332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1237140336 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think of indexing the cells in binary < 1237140337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then I misremembered < 1237140338 0 :sebbu2!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-37-207.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1237140345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well ok. < 1237140351 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that should make it pretty obvious that the number of cells is the same, signed or unsigned < 1237140366 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the number is slightly smaller if you use one's complement or sign-magnitude, and don't include negative zero < 1237140368 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but who does that nowadays? < 1237140373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, this is why you use sparse storage. Like a hash map or whatever. < 1237140383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm < 1237140405 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what happens if cfunge runs out of memory trying to store things in fungespace? < 1237140406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, cfunge does that. But also uses a static array for the most often accessed area < 1237140413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :g/p reflects? < 1237140413 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is quite sane. < 1237140451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, now cfunge also supports 64-bit cells as a compile time option. that means a 4 MB static array. < 1237140454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm... < 1237140473 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :array[sizeof(int)][sizeof(int)] is much nicer. < 1237140491 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: don't you mean array[1<funge_cell translation, and reversed order (stack grows up in cfunge). < 1237141076 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it work? < 1237141083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It turned out using reversed extra wide strings worked better in some code. < 1237141089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't fix all that way < 1237141092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but some cases. < 1237141112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also for certain STRN instructions you can skip popping/pushing at all < 1237141135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the one for string length. Just scan on stack. < 1237141157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1237141177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.vjn.fi/oklopol/music/ancoolone2.mid <- i like this < 1237141198 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ehird < 1237141201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, really when it comes to system time malloc() isn't much of an issue. Most libc allocates in chunks. And even then fork() and waitpid() is what takes most time in mycology. (for the PERL fingerprint) < 1237141206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when it comes to *system time* < 1237141213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you should allocate your own heap with mmap < 1237141221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's trivial, overcomitting is universal < 1237141229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you should write your own faster version of perl < 1237141231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just allocate a shitload and it'll just about always work < 1237141238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well anonymous mmap() isn't portable < 1237141243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: mmap /dev/zero < 1237141245 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: overcommitting isn't portable either < 1237141252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, yes, but it works on most things < 1237141253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm ok. < 1237141255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will be very very slow in gcc-bf, for isntance < 1237141261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: he can fallback < 1237141267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compile time option, say < 1237141274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because gcc-bf will go through and organise memory so that it can jump about in that, it takes ages < 1237141276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux/bsd do overcommitting, probably solaris too < 1237141287 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does Windows? < 1237141292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those are pretty much the only widely used unixes, the rest can set -DNO_MMAP_HEAP or w/e < 1237141296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: cfunge doesn't work on windows < 1237141305 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Still doing stuff with GCC-bf? < 1237141311 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spiffy. < 1237141313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it's on hold while I finish my degree < 1237141315 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1237141316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw I did some testing with prefetching cache lines in file loading. It resulted in a speedup on my old Pentium 3, but a slowdown on my Sempron < 1237141318 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough. < 1237141318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I still intend to finish it sometime < 1237141332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, with mmap you never have to allocate, just access memory and bam < 1237141337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := cut malloc() time out entirely < 1237141346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, with mmapping /dev/zero, you get all 0s < 1237141350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can offset fungespace by 32 < 1237141355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that is because AMD64 auto prefetches when you access several cache lines after each other. So the instructions are nops then basically < 1237141355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := no initialization needs to be done < 1237141358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's already zeroed out < 1237141359 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird/AnMaster: you might want to look into using sbrk if you never free memory < 1237141362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great, right? < 1237141363 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glibc malloc does mmaps when efficient. < 1237141364 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1237141365 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it plays badly with malloc on some systems < 1237141372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: right, but a huge overcommitted mmap is better < 1237141375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than many small malloc < 1237141376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1237141384 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... what about using calloc not malloc if you want zeroed-out memory? < 1237141390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that just does a memset or whatever < 1237141393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I do free sometimes. Stuff like stacks are freed when that thread quits < 1237141393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it still loops through < 1237141396 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is calloc optimised to do the zeroing and allocating together? < 1237141397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmapping /dev/zero will be faster < 1237141408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: anyway, that offset + mmap heap I imagine would give a quite good performance increase < 1237141413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: surely a sensible library would implement calloc in terms of mmapping /dev/zero? < 1237141415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also I realloc() sometimes. But profiling shows that isn't really a major overhead currently < 1237141422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why not read glibc sourc < 1237141422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1237141426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm where was it? < 1237141428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the offset bit < 1237141433 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't have it on me < 1237141433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: basically < 1237141439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at scrollback < 1237141442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: overcommit mmap /dev/zero, then you have it already initialized < 1237141443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1237141447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is on the web. < 1237141447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 = 32 < 1237141448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 = 33 < 1237141451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-1 = 31 < 1237141452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1237141456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you have spaces as default < 1237141459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without ANY initialization < 1237141465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers < 1237141466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := no inline asm, no initialization overhead, perfect < 1237141482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(with a fallback -DNO_MMAP_HEAP for non-overcommitting systems or ones that do it slowly) < 1237141490 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I mentioned that a while back to AnMaster < 1237141491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so this would change the range of all the vaules? < 1237141493 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the offset-by-32 thing < 1237141498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: err, pretty much < 1237141500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes < 1237141501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got the idea from you < 1237141506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but combined it with mmapping /dev/zero < 1237141590 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well the kernel sets static uninitialised vars to be 0. So I could equally well do offset on that instead. < 1237141611 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you can't have a huge static var < 1237141619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you ever tried to overcommit mmap? < 1237141628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've allocated 5GB on this 2.5GB system, with half the memory full < 1237141629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it worked fine < 1237141634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, No. But I tried a 128 MB static var in cfunge. < 1237141636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's basically what I'm suggesting < 1237141647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get rid of malloc (apart from as fallback) < 1237141651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmap a huge /dev/zero < 1237141654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and offset by 32 < 1237141660 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I suspect most calloc's are only a malloc+memset anyway < 1237141663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd bet money you'd get a good speed improvement < 1237141675 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... deranged values... < 1237141690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, there was a big argument on comp.lang.c about what happened if you used calloc to allocate more than a SIZE_MAX of memory < 1237141693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm. Worth trying indeed. < 1237141704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if you don't, I'll try and figure out cfunge and do it :P < 1237141717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems most implementations treat that case as UB, but they weren't sure whether that was allowed or not < 1237141735 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And this speed improvement, would it help in anything except cfunge start-up time? < 1237141742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I can't do it today, I'm checking profiling to try to work at the most problematic area. < 1237141768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but I will try it indeed. < 1237141780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well, yes < 1237141783 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he'd never call malloc < 1237141787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just reference the memory < 1237141788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, however I think it may break the specs if you don't compensate < 1237141793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it should be a pervasive improvement < 1237141794 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hm? < 1237141794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the range I man < 1237141796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mean* < 1237141799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1237141803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just +32 on every read < 1237141809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is, conveniently, a bitshift < 1237141812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, no it's not < 1237141813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1237141816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't listen to me < 1237141817 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah < 1237141819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+32 on each read < 1237141821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-32 on write < 1237141823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := no initialization time < 1237141830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that saves startup time, and the no-mallocing saves time all the way through < 1237141833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i case my rest < 1237141834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about stack? < 1237141835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but you only initialise once < 1237141842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1237141842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, that saves at startup only < 1237141844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you access memory lots of times < 1237141850 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you're saving at startup to hurt more later on < 1237141854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, I disagree < 1237141857 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you end up with an interp that's slower on very long programs < 1237141860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+32 and -32 take one cycle < 1237141867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well you could change the instruction dispatcher to work on the offset values < 1237141869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the averaged performance increase would be a gain < 1237141872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am almost certain < 1237141876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :90% < 1237141883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I _will_ bet money on it, if anyone wants < 1237141887 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1237141910 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not having to manually check whether memory needs to be malloc'ed should be a gain in a lot of places < 1237141918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1237141930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I bet it would run an infinite loop more slowly < 1237141939 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, each iteration took longer < 1237141943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I don't really malloc the funge space currently. I don't need to. all but one access of mycology is inside the static area < 1237141945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: see olsner < 1237141950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you did anything interesting in the infinite loop at all < 1237141955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that is true for most other programs too < 1237141955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Just hardcode mycology's output ffs < 1237141962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how do you handle Lahey-lines with no commands at all on them? < 1237141967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're optimizing beyond what you have, you're not going to get huge gains < 1237141973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just trying to say the biggest gains in my opinion < 1237141991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well how would you end up on that? with threads that remove the < or whatever? < 1237142004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: empty source file < 1237142005 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that or a j instruction < 1237142016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, empty source file is an infinite loop < 1237142016 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or is it x) < 1237142018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1237142030 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I've seen it done with a row of ps before < 1237142039 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where the stack was set up in advance to hold all the right information < 1237142047 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are other ways, as suggested < 1237142079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the main thing to remember is that such a loop is not breakable even with multiple threads. Reason is that spaces take no ticks < 1237142091 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't we already discuss this earlier, though? < 1237142140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so it will loop in the "we have a space, search for next instruction" code < 1237142170 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ah, ok < 1237142173 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine optimises it into a real infinite loop :) < 1237142179 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1237142181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :old joke < 1237142195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, CLC-INTERCAL optimises obvious infinite loops into a select instruction with infinite timeout < 1237142201 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it doesn't even use up CPU < 1237142254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's your opinion on qbasic vs quickbasic < 1237142260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quickbasic is fast and fancy, I think that ruins it < 1237142280 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and you can get an "empty" lahey-line simply by entering a line with only ;>#; at the > character, since ;; doesn't take up any ticks either. < 1237142290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I've never seen quickbasic < 1237142305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: wow, that does work < 1237142306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's qbasic without the restrictions < 1237142307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it can compile < 1237142310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's a lot faster < 1237142314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it has a bigger manual < 1237142314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway what I do malloc mostly is stacks and stack-stacks. And strings in certain fingerprints < 1237142315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and more functions < 1237142329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which I think spoils it < 1237142365 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the quickbasic manual isn't decompilable with the helpmake.exe tool; it spews out a rather corrupted file and hangs up. (At least that's what it did in dosbox.) < 1237142365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, my 7-second qbasic graphical sierpinski runs in less than 1 second in quickbasic < 1237142389 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have a legal copy of quickbasic? < 1237142411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Illegal, from fizzie. < 1237142415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. < 1237142417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably illegal. < 1237142433 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this channel is publicly logged? :P < 1237142439 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You weren't supposed to reveal it's from me! It was all very hush-hush! (Although I may have behaved suspiciously enough.) < 1237142439 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: yes < 1237142441 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION puts handcuffs on fizzie O====O < 1237142442 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi clog! hi cmeme! < 1237142454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmeme isn't here < 1237142455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he died. < 1237142458 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err... cmeme? < 1237142463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: cmeme = ircbrowse.com < 1237142468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hasn't been here for many months < 1237142468 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I know < 1237142470 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1237142480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to go now, anyway < 1237142481 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's still one logger. < 1237142483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: I would like to see one person enforcing QuickBasic's copyright < 1237142489 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"mibbit.com: this is a rubbish quit message" < 1237142518 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION enforces copyright on ehird with the saucepan ===\___/ < 1237142524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, just did a test on mycology: malloc() was called 532 times, realloc() 288 times and free 529() times. And that mismatch between free and malloc is due to long lived arrays that in SOCK, FILE and REFC. You can't free them before exit anyway due to the way the fingerprints are defined. < 1237142534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so not a real leak < 1237142539 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Recently, a set of TCP/IP routines for QuickBASIC 4.x and 7.1 has revitalized some interest in the software." Heh. < 1237142541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, that 532 could become 0 :-) < 1237142559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well none of those malloc() calls were for funge space < 1237142561 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a matter of principle, I believe QB was the in-the-day equivalent of a Visual Studio license, so you should be paying millions in damages for violating the precious copyright < 1237142574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1237142582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and the other ones doesn't need to be initialised. < 1237142627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so trying with offset on static array should be quite interesting. Oh another thing. Too large static area is bad for performance. Locality of reference. < 1237142642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes I noticed this in profiling < 1237142686 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also seems that FreeBASIC has added OOP-style stuff to the TYPE command. < 1237142700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same would go for mmap() unless you encode the coordinate as some sort of space filling fractal that puts close areas in the same cacheline (as well as page) < 1237142718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that sounds interesting < 1237142718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1237142738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :need very low overhead to calculate too < 1237142762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what do you think of that idea? < 1237142765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1237142784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1237142786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dun geddit < 1237142787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a cache line is typically 64 bytes on x86 < 1237142806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, Do you remember xkcd's map over ip addresses? < 1237142810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1237142842 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That doesn't look like you can calculate the linear index from cartesian co-ordinates easily :( < 1237142844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, do you remember how the mapping between ips and points on the map was done? < 1237142861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well now that was 1D -> 2D < 1237142862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1237142872 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Space-filling_curve < 1237142879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, using a space filling fractal that put close ips close to each other < 1237142903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal_, indeed. Don't remember what exact variant < 1237142912 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like a Hilbert curve. < 1237142913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway. What about a mapping the other way? < 1237142921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2D -> 1D < 1237142953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it possible to do such a thing O(1)? < 1237142972 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :almost nothing is possible O(1) < 1237142990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well true. :( < 1237142998 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are infinitely many digits both in and out < 1237143005 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O(n), possibly < 1237143020 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alternatively, from a practical point of view, almost everything is just O(1) with a big constant if you're doing it on a real computator. < 1237143032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, where n is what? Number of positions? Number of bits in address? < 1237143050 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the latter < 1237143054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1237143074 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :practicality is so impractical < 1237143086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well Maybe. < 1237143100 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i expect with some grouping, the result at one position depends only on the previous ones < 1237143100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that wasn't a very practical comment :P < 1237143118 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(more high-level) < 1237143118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well if you want to do random lookup, and not start from the start of the curve < 1237143125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb phone :( < 1237143263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, that's one trippy mandelbrot. < 1237143412 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Actually, wikipedia seems to have more info on how http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Z-order_(curve) can be used like this. < 1237143566 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular "The resulting ordering can equivalently be described as the order would get from a depth-first traversal of a quadtree;" < 1237143578 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Notably, calculating the z-order coordinate from x, y is just a single application of the INTERCAL mingle operator. < 1237143594 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course your silly C might lack the always-useful $ operator. < 1237143900 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Curiously, that one bit-hacks page at http://www.cs.utk.edu/~vose/c-stuff/bithacks.html seems to have a couple of bit-interleaving tricks. < 1237143957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can do $ really fast with two lookup tables and bitshifts, right? < 1237144019 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's one lookup table approach, yes. There's also yet another of those 64-bit multiplications, if you happen to have a fast 64-bit multiplier. < 1237144042 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They always look so silly. < 1237144054 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :via the IWC forum: http://www.sciforums.com/vacuum-pockets-and-safety-nazis-t-41446.html < 1237144058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a 32-bit int you can trivially generate two 65536-sized lookup tables < 1237144061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then just < 1237144074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tab[n&65535] < 1237144074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1237144078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tab2[n<>blah < 1237144081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1237144098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: nice linkjack. < 1237144099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not. < 1237144114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://groups.google.com/group/rec.arts.sf.written/msg/073bea1aa44c9396 < 1237144117 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1237144148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you linked to an ugly, ad-filled page, on a forum, where someone had minimally copied and pasted the original post from google groups < 1237144154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as opposed to linking ot the archived message directly < 1237144174 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was the link posted on the iwc forum < 1237144202 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also linked to the google-groups URL three days ago; someone hasn't been diligently logreading! < 1237144203 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was watching out only for safety nazis, not link nazis, sorry < 1237144230 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes on a murderous swatting spree -----### < 1237144247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION bites off oerjan's head < 1237144248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :om nom < 1237144256 0 :Corun_!n=Corun@94-193-150-253.zone7.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1237144270 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would you like fries with that? < 1237144333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Loeb's Theorem as a Scheme description: "A function which, when given code evaluating to (a function which, when giving code evaluating to P, returns P), returns code evaluating to P." < 1237144335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION implements < 1237144344 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i didn't know that it was ad filled. my brain filters are reasonably resistant to anything not actually revolting. < 1237144397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(define (loeb box) < 1237144397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : `((eval box) '(loeb ,box))) < 1237144401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ski__: I wrote loeb. < 1237144458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait < 1237144463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(define (loeb box) < 1237144463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : `((eval box) '(loeb ',box))) < 1237144473 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get it < 1237144477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(define (loeb box) < 1237144477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : `(,(eval box) '(loeb ',box))) < 1237144478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1237144485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: "A function which, when given code evaluating to (a function which, when giving code evaluating to P, returns P), returns code evaluating to P." < 1237144487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in modal logic: < 1237144491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[]([]P -> P) -> []P < 1237144495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in blah: < 1237144498 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the point < 1237144506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"If it is provable that (if P is provable then P), then P is provable" < 1237144517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: A nice introduction: http://yudkowsky.net/rational/lobs-theorem < 1237144544 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will not stand for that scribd shit < 1237144549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not my fault. < 1237144568 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scribd? < 1237144597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :click the damn link < 1237144618 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: scribd invented that stupid embedded pdf web app bloat fail < 1237144669 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1237144712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, wait < 1237144714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(define (loeb box) < 1237144714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : `(,box '(loeb ',box))) < 1237144715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1237144726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(loeb is basically the fixed point operator for boxed code, in a way) < 1237144758 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1237144761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#;3> (eval (loeb '(lambda (x) 2))) < 1237144761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 < 1237144765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It passes the Very Silly Test. < 1237144792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cool, (eval (loeb '(lambda (x) x))) behaves like ```sii``sii < 1237144938 0 :calamari!n=calamari@ip70-171-213-254.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1237144998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://julianstahnke.com/read/sound_picture/ < 1237145016 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1237145852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you there? < 1237145950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1237145952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, now yes < 1237145957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1237145958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads scrollback < 1237146032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : There's one lookup table approach, yes. There's also yet another of those 64-bit multiplications, if you happen to have a fast 64-bit multiplier. <-- interesting < 1237146077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how much chance to you think I have to beat cfunge speed in haskell? :D < 1237146119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, unknown. It depends on what you do. If fizzie finishes his jitfunge he will beat cfunge at single-threaded apps < 1237146132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I fail to see how his approach would work with threads though < 1237146132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interpreting < 1237146159 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The 64-bit multiplication interleaves only 16 bits at a time, though.) < 1237146162 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, then it depends on how you do it. cfunge isn't perfect. It is just the fastest one currently around. < 1237146175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how do you plan to implement t in jitfunge? < 1237146182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: cfunge is near c speed, isn't it? < 1237146200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hahahaha < 1237146206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very funny < 1237146211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it sure is fast... < 1237146224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, c as speed of light? Yes very funny joke < 1237146231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ < 1237146249 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really have a plan there; I don't see any sensible way of doing synchronous threads with jitfunge without it being completely brainless. < 1237146254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: >_< < 1237146257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C speed. < 1237146280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh, I thought you planned to trap me there by claiming you meant c as in speed of light < 1237146286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I read it as the language < 1237146317 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway you could write a C program that did the same output but was faster. Like that compile to shell script in ick < 1237146330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but < 1237146334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without stupid corner cases < 1237146375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and since I do implement funge threads I can't merge instructions either. So >:#,_ can't be translated to "output string from stack" < 1237146388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since some other thread could potentially change it while it was executing < 1237146392 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At the very least it'd need some explicit synchronization just about everywhere. It sounds rather painful to implement. Of course I *could* run things-with-no-observable-side-effects somewhat concurrently. < 1237146394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes but < 1237146395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have to keep them synched < 1237146397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :answer my question < 1237146400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :without bullshit corner cases < 1237146401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :synced* < 1237146402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like you always do < 1237146411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't cfunge compete with C on speed? < 1237146414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, 2-4x slower than C < 1237146460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm. There are some issues that are hard to avoid with befunge interpretation. Like locality of reference. But my goal was never to get as fast as native C code < 1237146472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAGH < 1237146472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my goal was "beat all those other interpreters" < 1237146476 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-82-74.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1237146478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why can't you just answer my freaking question < 1237146489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and later on: "how fast can I make this?" < 1237146495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I wish I could. It isn't easy < 1237146498 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's classified information < 1237146507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and I don't know the answer exactly < 1237146513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: just answer roughly < 1237146523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does cfunge compete (2-4x slower) than C in common cases? < 1237146524 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt there are very well-comparable benchmarks that would've been implemented both in C and in Befunge. < 1237146536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i'm not asking for a formal comparison < 1237146548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I can't answer since I haven't measured compared to the equivalent program in pure C. < 1237146556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, indeed < 1237146560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFFF < 1237146565 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you need some code that does the same thing in both languages to give any sort of sensible answer. < 1237146574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, with C you can optimise control flow < 1237146576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1237146581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unoptimized C < 1237146607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, as produced by GCC? with -O0? Ok that isn't fair. Bash could possibly beat that in some cases... < 1237146611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well almost < 1237146613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-O2 < 1237146627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you always do this, nitpick nitpick corner case corner case one level lower of abstraction... < 1237146642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, -O2 is rather well optimised. And befunge is hard top optimise. And as fizzie said: " I doubt there are very well-comparable benchmarks that would've been implemented both in C and in Befunge." < 1237146651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I have an idea though < 1237146656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is called threaded code < 1237146662 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: No, seriously, it's not a very simple question, since no-one does any "common cases" with Befunge. < 1237146663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this could be interesting for befunge < 1237146668 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do some of the language shootout tests :) < 1237146681 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can probably beat Ruby :D < 1237146686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: threaded code would not be a good improvement for befunge, afaik. < 1237146696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal_: oh, it'd almost certainly beat all/most of the interpreted languages < 1237146707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I never tried it. Just got the idea today. But why would it not be very good? < 1237146720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could handle the updating pointer quite easily probably < 1237146722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because threaded code works for... Forth. < 1237146745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and for erlang. The Erlang VM uses threaded bytecode iirc. < 1237146776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well unless you compile with HIPE to get native code. < 1237146844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erlang's bytecode is UNCOMFORTABLY PARALLEL. < 1237146877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm. Only because that is how it has been written < 1237146892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the language is designed to make it easy < 1237146903 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1237147049 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1237147113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : There's one lookup table approach, yes. There's also yet another of those 64-bit multiplications, if you happen to have a fast 64-bit multiplier. <-- any links to more info on this? < 1237147135 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's on that page whose URL was just few lines earlier. < 1237147149 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does interleave just 16 bits with the 64-bit multiplication, though. < 1237147163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1237147175 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't want to guess anything about execution speed vs. the lookup-table-based versions. < 1237147201 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, of course. That is what profiling test cases is for < 1237147209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as profiling real program < 1237147238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and cache/branch simulation with cachegrind and callgrind. As well as real profiling those with oprofile < 1237147241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on ;P < 1237147330 0 :Corun_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"This computer has gone to sleep" < 1237147527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, those bit hacks are for shorts it seems. I operate on larger numbers though < 1237147535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe just for the static area < 1237147541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is currently 1024*1024 < 1237147563 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you can do your larger numbers in small pieces. I did say "just 16 bits". < 1237147587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 64-bit one is for 8 bit numbers though < 1237147616 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right; it was a 16-bit result. < 1237147622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1237147647 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's probably because there are 8 bytes you can fit in a 64-bit integer, and you need all 8 different bit positions there. < 1237147657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :geez, QBasic is crazy slow. < 1237147660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1237147660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean how can you do anything < 1237147673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, if you could do this with SSE.. Hm! < 1237147707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however the overhead of SSE setup is rather large. It is only useful for a large number of similar operations after each other < 1237147726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, implement a fast funge in qbasic? < 1237147731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no :| < 1237147760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, still a simple befunge93 would be nice. I don't think anyone done that..? < 1237147774 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a feeling I might have. < 1237147780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1237147780 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure. < 1237147802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure I can do funge93 < 1237147802 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to do a befunge 93 interpreter in most languages I come across, but I might not have revisited basic. < 1237147812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIM fs(80, 24) < 1237147824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, what's hello world again? < 1237147831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :befunge? < 1237147838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-93 < 1237147847 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :025*"!dlrow ,olleH">:#,_@ < 1237147852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tankz < 1237147852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1237147861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, err the 0 isn't needed < 1237147863 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can omit the initial 0 if you want to test stack underflow handling simultaneously. < 1237147865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck, I can't backspace. < 1237147871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1237147872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1237147873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't \ < 1237147883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, can't what? < 1237147886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write a \ ? < 1237147894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can that be hard < 1237147897 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I did mention I always put the 0 there. It's more robust that way. :p < 1237147903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: keyboard mappin'. < 1237147907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, more breaking < 1237147923 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mycology has a befunge 93 section. It is fairly complete. Just remember to test mycorand.bf too < 1237147938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you wrote a \ just above there... < 1237147941 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More robust; you don't run out of the string. I always tend to keep a lot of results on the stack that the print loop would cheerfully pop out. < 1237147950 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's dosbox's keyboard mappings. < 1237147950 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-027-168.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1237147953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1237147953 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those can be pretty tricky. < 1237147953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN DOSBOX < 1237147954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gr < 1237147957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's silly then < 1237147968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not read like normal programs < 1237147973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not < 1237147974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that < 1237147975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simple < 1237147978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1237148016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you read scancodes sure. But why do it? Why not just do input like any other program? that *works* with your keymap < 1237148025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1237148026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why it isn't simple < 1237148039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION facepalm. < 1237148044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1237148067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something SDL could help you handle this properly. < 1237148071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever you want < 1237148074 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FWIW I also don't see why they do it in a strange way < 1237148090 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume there is a reason other than their ignorance < 1237148100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, leetness? < 1237148107 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not leet if it doesn't work < 1237148111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well true < 1237148123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes it is. That is what leet is all about. < 1237148142 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doing things the hard way is cool, but if you're not actually doing what you're supposed to be doing it's lame < 1237148160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leet == saying stuff like "haxxxx11011oneone!!!" and not knowing how to program < 1237148175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :script kiddies, and such < 1237148177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly < 1237148190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes. But if it works it isn't leet < 1237148194 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yeah, nowadays < 1237148197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it works it is just cool < 1237148209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:16 AnMaster: leet == saying stuff like "haxxxx11011oneone!!!" and not knowing how to program < 1237148215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that has ever been considered leet, ever < 1237148222 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn late 90s and 00s messing up the meaning of 'leet' and all that < 1237148229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, y'know, talking out of your ass works fine for most people. < 1237148232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, except by those doing it. < 1237148250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway my point is leet lost it's original meaning < 1237148252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you even -seen- anyone who claimed to be leet sincerely? < 1237148257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like hacker lost it's meaning < 1237148259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if not, stfu, because you're wrong < 1237148265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes and they all spoke like that... < 1237148280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just claim the word lost it's original meaning < 1237148307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hacker today isn't the same thing as it originally was either < 1237148342 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I am guessing it's some sort of "we want the low-level keyboard access DOS does to work as much as possible the way it would without a real operating system in-between", but that's a bit strange reason. I'd prefer that they'd read input on the X keysym level or something, and then just have a mapping from those into keyboard scancodes so you could make it look to DOS like your keyboard was US, fi, or whatever. < 1237148379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, good idea. < 1237148379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm, is befunge-93 stack limited to 0-255? < 1237148381 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's not really a good reason, since they can do exactly what you said and it'd work much better. < 1237148393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: and be less portable < 1237148395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um signed I think? < 1237148398 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: How's that < 1237148400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most dosbox users are on windows < 1237148409 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They'd read Windows keyboard events there. < 1237148419 0 :Hiato1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1237148421 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like they don't have to write platform-specific input-handling now, too. < 1237148424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: So, LONG. < 1237148436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not sure about 93. Check the spec < 1237148444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, except, the spec is shit. < 1237148448 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Disclaimer: I've never really figured out how dos keymapping works. I vaguely remember "KEYB SU" being needed somewhere to get Finnish layout. < 1237148452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://catseye.tc/projects/befunge93/doc/befunge93.html < 1237148465 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the Befunge 93 stack tends to be whatever the most comfortable integer size is. < 1237148481 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a QBasic implementation, you could maybe use a 16-bit integer stack. < 1237148483 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keyb su,,C:\WINDOWS\COMMAND\KEYBOARD.SYS < 1237148487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :su? < 1237148495 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Suomi", which is fi:Finland. < 1237148497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1237148503 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, I mean, fi:Suomi is en:Finland. < 1237148504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIM fs(24) AS STRING * 80 < 1237148519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I propose the ; operator for such uses. < 1237148521 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: 25? < 1237148526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Suomi", which is fi;Finland. < 1237148539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Syntax: lang;word-in-language-in-which-we-are-speaking < 1237148547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Needs the context of a quoted word in [lang] to make sense. < 1237148568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"X" is Y;Z "Y:X is en:Z" < 1237148577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dewi: er, yes. < 1237148584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: < 1237148585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, why < 1237148586 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it makes more sense for the language annotation to annotate the language of the word it appears with < 1237148588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so you escape any ; in the string then? < 1237148601 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: 83 < 1237148603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 25*80 not 24*80 < 1237148604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :abnthe same problem with is :; there are no words with ; and : in them in any language assigned an ISO code. < 1237148609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1237148610 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It's 80x25 so either your language has weird syntax or one of those numbers is wrong < 1237148612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the same problem with is :; there are no words with ; and : in them in any language assigned an ISO code. < 1237148621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: this is convenient in some cases, like fizzie's < 1237148627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well C;true; < 1237148635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is not an ISO language code. < 1237148639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok < 1237148645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and true is not a C-defined symbol < 1237148657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, #include < 1237148661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is < 1237148662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you didn't say that. < 1237148668 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think "fi;Suomi, which is Finland" makes more sense < 1237148674 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :en:I en:can en:add en:that en:prefix en:to en:all en:my en:words en:to en:make en:it en:unambiguous, en:if en:you en:want. < 1237148675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well ok < 1237148692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, was that an English : or a Finnish : ? < 1237148694 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :en:Really, en:it's en:no en:problem en:for en:me. < 1237148702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIM stkbase AS long < 1237148702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stk$ = VARPTR$(stkbase) < 1237148704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fun fun. < 1237148705 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: en:"you could also annotate sentences" < 1237148728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although, well, more useful: < 1237148732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stk = VARPTR(stkbase) < 1237148736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Then use poke and peek, naturally.) < 1237148740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, en:that en:means en:more en:decoding en:processing < 1237148746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, you could use that to write to video memory from fungespace. Maybe. < 1237148747 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'd say the current medium has an implicit en: annotation for all utterances < 1237148761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :en:since en:you en:need en:to en:expand en:it en:then < 1237148766 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You need to also use VARSEG() and DEF SEG if you want to do that; not all basic variables need to be in the same segment. < 1237148776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1237148779 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since QBasic can handle that whopping 160 kilobytes of user data. < 1237148802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DIM stkbase AS long < 1237148802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DEF SEG = VARSEG(stkbase) < 1237148803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stk = VARPTR(stkbase) < 1237148805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wait what? Encoding different funge instructions as colours on the screen? < 1237148806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wall ah. < 1237148808 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1237148810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be cool < 1237148816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, that isn't what I was doing, but that would be possible < 1237148820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fairly trivial even < 1237148823 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: 160kb? that's not a very even number... < 1237148825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to add P and G < 1237148829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, except that is int < 1237148831 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: That's what the help file says. < 1237148831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are POKE/PEEK < 1237148834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not in -93. < 1237148840 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehm, 2*64+(1/2)*64 or something? < 1237148850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh right. Funge space is byte and stack is signed int? < 1237148852 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1237148868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1237148884 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"* < 1237148886 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Befunge-93 defines signed 32-bit stack cells and unsigned 8-bit Funge-Space cells." < 1237148889 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Incidentally, if you just "DEF SEG = &HB800" and use POKE/PEEK to do all funge-space access (just remember to do a *2 to all coordinates) you get a real-time view of the funge space, and don't need a separate array for it in the code. < 1237148897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I was just copying that... < 1237148899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HB800? < 1237148901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh? < 1237148906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :&HA000, no? < 1237148912 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: The text mode display memory starts at 0xB8000. < 1237148918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, right. < 1237148932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, thing is, i'd kind of like to have fungeprograms drawing circles, y'know? < 1237148939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that's unrealistic what with the immense speed of QBasic. < 1237148969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, for EOF on input I suggest reflect. it is undef in 93, but reflect in 98 < 1237148981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no EOF in QBasic. < 1237148985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that forward compatibility is useful. < 1237148991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AFAIK. < 1237148992 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what happens at end of file then? < 1237148998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no way to trigger that. < 1237149004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, DOS has pipes... < 1237149012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1237149015 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an EOF() function. < 1237149018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right < 1237149023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's not for text input < 1237149025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keyboard, I mean < 1237149042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, pipe and keyboard are different? < 1237149051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You seem surprised. < 1237149056 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dos has pipes? < 1237149062 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you press ctrl-z, don't you get an EOF sent to the program? < 1237149072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Yes, they're not really though. < 1237149074 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Yes, but they're run in sequence < 1237149074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a(b()) < 1237149080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's x = force(a()); b(x) < 1237149085 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's exactly a(b()) in a strict language < 1237149089 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lame < 1237149090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes. < 1237149094 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, 'call-by-value' < 1237149097 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ctrl-Z is the common way of indicating EOF; I'm not really sure on what level it happens. < 1237149097 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes|foo? < 1237149102 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or, it's foo > tmp; bar < tmp < 1237149104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: it actually does this < 1237149106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes > tmp; foo < tmp < 1237149113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you didn't like all that free disk space anyway < 1237149120 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes doesn't finish < 1237149128 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Does it actually write it to disk and not memory? < 1237149128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes., < 1237149133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: so it hangs. < 1237149134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: yes < 1237149137 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh < 1237149139 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't know that < 1237149158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, who has much ram? certainly not I. To fit anything of importance we must utilize our Hard Disk Storage Device < 1237149169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Ctrl-Z is the common way of indicating EOF; I'm not really sure on what level it happens. <-- under dos you mean? < 1237149170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And besides, why implement an extra command when it can elegantly isomorph to onest another? < 1237149174 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes. < 1237149181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, QNX> < 1237149182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right. on *nix it is ctrl-d and ctrl-z is suspend < 1237149202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I was just trying to make sure he wasn't talking about "in general" < 1237149213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "*nix it is ctrl-d and ctrl-z is suspend" thanks, we didn't know < 1237149236 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know that ^C sends a SIGINT < 1237149241 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, you could have those P/G work on the A000 video memory segment, and p/g (plus code-fetch and everything else) on B800, and a single new opcode to toggle the display mode between the mode 13h video and the fancy dynamic 80x25 text-mode view of funge-space. < 1237149244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you know. Not everyone here use OS X or Linux < 1237149248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some use. you know. Windows < 1237149249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1237149278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, QBasic's manual advocates DO...LOOP over WHILE...WEND. < 1237149292 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, why? < 1237149297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why? Because WEND sounds silly? < 1237149301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner: It's more fleximatron! < 1237149308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, DO...LOOP doubles as a do/while and a while! < 1237149314 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some befunge programs look pretty interesting when you watch the funge-space when they're running. Mooz's floating-point division, for example, which does the manual "long division" teached-in-school done-on-pen-and-paper thing. < 1237149314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possibilities end not! < 1237149315 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err? < 1237149343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and with qbasic it would be slow enough to read! < 1237149353 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always pronounced WEND as "vänd" (sv:turn) < 1237149383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't befunge-93 programs usually use more stack than fs? < 1237149421 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, the DO...LOOP syntax is: either DO [{WHILE | UNTIL} condition] ... LOOP or DO ... LOOP [{WHILE | UNTIL} condition]. It's pretty silly. < 1237149422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, :D < 1237149446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you should be able to do < 1237149452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO WHILE FOO ... LOOP UNTIL FOO < 1237149455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1237149456 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I learnt basic before really understanding that english was a separate language < 1237149457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO WHILE FOO ... LOOP UNTIL BAR < 1237149462 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I agree. < 1237149470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what would the semantics for it be? < 1237149476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exit when either is true? < 1237149477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it won't enter unless FOO, but if you have FOO, you get to go one turn having BAR! Although be careful not to lose your FOO... < 1237149483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, it'd be: < 1237149489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1237149490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do { if (!foo) break; ... } while (bar); < 1237149492 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can do "DO ... LOOP" for an infinite loop without needing a conditional, though. < 1237149493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes you said it the line after < 1237149509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait < 1237149511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do { if (!foo) break; ... } while (!bar); < 1237149511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofc < 1237149554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or if (!foo) goto thedayafter; do { ... } while (!bar); thedayafter: < 1237149560 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why are we talking about basic? < 1237149566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: fuck you that's a terrible question < 1237149571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a better one would be for every other situation < 1237149574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not why? < 1237149574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"why are we not talking about basic?" < 1237149577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why basic? < 1237149580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder too < 1237149589 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the funnyness: END [{DEF | FUNCTION | IF | SELECT | SUB | TYPE}] ends all those block-style syntactic elements; "If no argument is supplied, END ends the program and closes all files." < 1237149595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BASIC is hardly BASIC. BASIC is most advanced programming in universe. < 1237149597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: :D < 1237149610 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think QBasic warns you about unterminated blocks, though, so you can't do it too easily by accident. < 1237149628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but how does this interact with out of order execution < 1237149634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean poking video memory < 1237149638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about memory barriers? < 1237149666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure I realise DOS didn't have to deal with that originally < 1237149671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but when run on modern hardware < 1237149673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does it work < 1237149685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :considering you can still run DOS on a modern computer. < 1237149691 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It runs in the VM86 mode, I would guess that handles it somehow. < 1237149692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with all those fancy features < 1237149708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, lets say I boot a bios flash floppy < 1237149713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on a modern x86_64 < 1237149725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about then < 1237149732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I captured a wonderful video of my "Slowerpinski" program running. < 1237149734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now you can enjoy, too: < 1237149742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, youtube? < 1237149746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it never goes into protected mode < 1237149756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, no, screencast.com, I've been trying out this Jing software thingymabob. < 1237149761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is cache disabled then? < 1237149766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's kind of bad, for one I didn't write it, I intend to replace it with something of my own design. < 1237149773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you'll need Flash. Unfortunately. < 1237149778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forget it then < 1237149782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, what a small price to pay for the magic of slowerpinski. < 1237149784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://screencast.com/t/REP0xECE < 1237149785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for youtube there is an easy workaround < 1237149812 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another nice statement is SYSTEM, which you might assume runs a DOS command; but no: "SYSTEM: Closes all open files and returns control to the operating system." < 1237149813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'll wait until you provide it in an open accessible format < 1237149827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't actually give a damn whether you watch it or not, surprisingly. < 1237149828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fhehe < 1237149829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe* < 1237149855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe fizzie has Flash. :P < 1237149866 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did watch it, and it was faster than I thought. < 1237149879 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's that cycles: max thing. < 1237149887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, that doesn't speed it up much. < 1237149899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's probably the fancy-shmancy AND algorithm. < 1237149912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, pretty effing slow. < 1237149961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If you know of a good screen capture program that will work on OS X, let me select a portion of the screen to capture, record audio from the microphone _and_ computer, and can upload to a siteamabob at a click, do let me know. < 1237149981 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, there was audio? < 1237149983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how did you capture that one you linked? < 1237149994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Mostly my mouse clicking and me breathing, but yes < 1237149998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Using Jing. < 1237150010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and it can't record to anything else? < 1237150018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you buy it you can encode to H.264 < 1237150035 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, this is a lot easier on linux you know ;P < 1237150035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, I clicked the Jing menubar, clicked Capture, selected the piece of screen, and clicked record. Then I clicked stop when I was done, and it automatically uploaded it and gave me the link. < 1237150036 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Well, if it wasn't anything more spectacular than that, I'll not bother locating headphones. < 1237150037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for once < 1237150042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's easy on OS X, too < 1237150046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1237150048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I want to automate the upload < 1237150054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i'm a lazy fuck. < 1237150056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, -_- < 1237150067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I could make it play music depending on the sierpinskiness of the segment it's doing. < 1237150077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sierpinskiness < 1237150079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.. < 1237150082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1237150083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard that before < 1237150089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is it defined? < 1237150093 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How close to 0 the &ing of the pixels are. :P < 1237150173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, how do you make PLAY play in the background, I wonderous. < 1237150207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, AnMaster, the video is just FLV. < 1237150211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So is YouTube < 1237150215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can play youtube you can play this < 1237150227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I looked at the source but couldn't find the text "flv" anywhere in it < 1237150233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll take a look. < 1237150234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I don't know what url to extract < 1237150253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but yes if I have an url I can play flv < 1237150285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone happenstance to have a network sniffer? :P < 1237150304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I have wireshark of course. But doesn't help much with no flash < 1237150315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can you play FLV without flash? Standalone decoder? < 1237150321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mplayer works < 1237150350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is wireshark available for OS X? < 1237150356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea. Google? < 1237150363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kay < 1237150369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is tcpdump too. And again no idea if it is for OS X < 1237150401 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tcpdump is pre-installed on OS X < 1237150404 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in Leopard < 1237150409 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://content.screencast.com/users/ehird/folders/Jing/media/a0341831-4bb6-4769-a6e0-b8517e43e2d8/00000006.swf is the actual SWF (without their swfplayer.swf thingy), if that's any help. I'll wireshark it up. < 1237150438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the swf doesn't help unless it is actually flv with a different name < 1237150449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just linking for interestual purposes. < 1237150466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb, need to clean glasses < 1237150483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wireshark is 100mb wtf. < 1237150503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh fuuuck, wireshark uses x11 < 1237150512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it just boots up x11 and loads a gtk clusterfuck < 1237150513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wonderful < 1237150661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yikesers, lots of shit here. < 1237150740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, um, it's not going ove HTTP. < 1237150799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aha. < 1237150839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: < 1237150840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :46 57 53 56:46 GM T....FWS < 1237150841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0160 08 f4 92 19 00 f8 00 00 00 00 00 07 8c 80 00 00 ........ ........ < 1237150843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0170 00 00 00 15 ea 00 00 0a 96 00 7f 0b 04 00 00 00 ........ ........ < 1237150845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0180 0a 1a 9d 08 3f 03 16 00 00 00 96 11 00 00 63 73 ....?... ......cs < 1237150847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0190 4d 6f 76 69 65 46 50 53 00 07 0a 00 00 00 1d 00 MovieFPS ........ < 1237150849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01a0 3f af 0f 00 00 00 54 65 63 68 53 6d 69 74 68 20 ?.....Te chSmith < 1237150851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01b0 4a 69 6e 67 00 3f 09 be a7 04 00 de 05 05 05 03 Jing.?.. ........ < 1237150853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01c0 31 02 78 da ac bd 57 73 24 c9 92 a5 f9 9f 2e 29 1.x...Ws $......) < 1237150854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MovieFPS? < 1237150857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that a FLV file? < 1237150859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*an < 1237150925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: as far as I can tell, it's http://content.screencast.com/users/ehird/folders/Jing/media/a0341831-4bb6-4769-a6e0-b8517e43e2d8/00000006.swf < 1237151025 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://content.screencast.com/users/ehird/folders/Jing/media/a0341831-4bb6-4769-a6e0-b8517e43e2d8/00000006.swf is 1.6MB, so probably it is embedded inside that < 1237151038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right then, he can maybe just launch an FLV decoder on that. < 1237151250 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not, my VLC won't play it (but Media Player Classic seems to know enough about SWF format to play it) < 1237151279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal_: mplayer? < 1237151309 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, a windows thing (http://sourceforge.net/projects/guliverkli/) < 1237151314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1237151317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, does it work with mplayer < 1237151320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back < 1237151326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: try running over < 1237151328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://content.screencast.com/users/ehird/folders/Jing/media/a0341831-4bb6-4769-a6e0-b8517e43e2d8/00000006.swf < 1237151332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with mplayer < 1237151334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a sec < 1237151336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1237151351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idoes it work? < 1237151353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*does < 1237151358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :downloading it < 1237151379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1237151384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1237151469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : so it just boots up x11 and loads a gtk clusterfuck <-- yes and? < 1237151472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get more ram < 1237151476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have issues with it < 1237151477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what has ram got to do with it < 1237151488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why would x11 be an issue otherwise < 1237151493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION facepalm < 1237151498 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks like crap? < 1237151500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop this thread of conversation before I throw myself out of a window < 1237151506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :please don't encourage him Judofyr < 1237151509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not under OS X iirc < 1237151518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean I ran Gimp under X11 on OS X once < 1237151522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looked semi-native < 1237151527 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes coding some shit < 1237151578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you aren't used to hard conditions simply. You have to learn not to break down just because some program uses Motif < 1237151587 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: stop being so emo over dependencies < 1237151597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not dependencies I have an issue with. < 1237151597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and GTK is nothing compared to Motif < 1237151607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, would you prefer if it uses Motif? < 1237151622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you remember when I said I'd throw myself out of a window if you didn't stop this thread of conversation? < 1237151632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes. I'm waiting. < 1237151634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1237151636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye-bye < 1237151642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1237151659 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: fucking great, now you made him go kill himself < 1237151677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :olsner, Oh I thought he said throw himself out of windows < 1237151706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehirdghost < 1237151711 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wooooh < 1237151714 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :booooh < 1237151719 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster i curse uponst thou < 1237151723 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you shalt only use windowths < 1237151725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, nice a ghost. Don't cross the streams! < 1237151726 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :till the end of your days! < 1237151741 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1237151743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ln -s startx windowths < 1237151746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :issue solved < 1237151749 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are not compliant? I see < 1237151752 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION rips out AnMaster's brain. < 1237151752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is no such thing as "windowths" < 1237151758 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I shall keepth it until thoust complieth. < 1237151759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, doesn't work. < 1237151762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tinfoil < 1237151771 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I went under it. < 1237151777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, tin suite < 1237151780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact < 1237151791 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evidence plox. < 1237151806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, evidence of you being a ghost plox. < 1237151831 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i jumped out a fucking window < 1237151835 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what more do you want, dickhead < 1237151836 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1237151841 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shall I go and slit my throat too < 1237151843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, autopsy? < 1237151845 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe poison myself < 1237151851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :death certificate? < 1237151852 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ghosts have no body, dumbo. < 1237151860 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i just died a minute ago. < 1237151866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, well the dead body would have to have a body < 1237151868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean duh < 1237151875 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1237151883 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you're a ghost it evaporates into your spiritual telekine < 1237151900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, evidence please? < 1237151906 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're a doo doo head < 1237151940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : shall I go and slit my throat too <-- how? < 1237151949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean you have no body you said < 1237151964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a logical flaw there < 1237151970 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my ghostular throat. < 1237151980 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd metadie. < 1237151991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, would you become a ghost of a ghost? < 1237151999 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1237152003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1237152010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what then? < 1237152023 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fool. < 1237152033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would become a fool? < 1237152052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's nothing new ;P < 1237152066 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mere mortals may not dabble in the artistrechnitionry of ghostular beings. < 1237152078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, well, In the name of science! < 1237152091 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No match for ghostular sciencemafindatron. < 1237152113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed not. Because it isn't called that < 1237152125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try post mortal research < 1237152125 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you don't shut up I'll make sure you're reincarnated as a dungbeetle. < 1237152164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, belief in ghost is mutually exclusive with belief in reincarnation I think < 1237152168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghosts* < 1237152178 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God has a random number generator, AnMaster. < 1237152184 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes it returns 2 and you get to decide yourself. < 1237152188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, I don't believe in god. < 1237152196 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm sure you didn't believe in ghosts either, but look at me. < 1237152230 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, God does indeed not play dice. That's way old fashioned. < 1237152244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, I still don't. Just an optical illusion. Or a result of your subconscious when you are under a lot of stress. < 1237152244 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He has infinite infinite-core infinity machines. < 1237152255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ghosts that is < 1237152255 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Then you will look very silly in the logs. < 1237152265 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You talking to some "ehirdghost" character that isn't there. < 1237152271 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, well that is because I believe you are faking this. < 1237152281 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tut, tut. < 1237152284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know. Like an actor playing Hamlet's father. < 1237152305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though not as well obviously < 1237152765 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man < 1237152805 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i smoked pot for the first time last night, and it reconfirmed my belief that i should be a linguist. < 1237152816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... what? < 1237152831 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pot tends to do that. < 1237152837 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1237152844 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it did it in an unexpected way < 1237152849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pot makes you believe you should be a linguist? < 1237152867 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all throughout i was essentially incapacitated. couldnt focus long enough to really do anything coherent < 1237152869 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I finally beat the computer at cheese < 1237152889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, :D < 1237152894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :typo for chess I hope? < 1237152896 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had difficulty moving about without kind of being stumbly < 1237152897 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1237152898 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but but < 1237152918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, did it make you want to not do it again? < 1237152922 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1237152926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh :( < 1237152931 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a friend said something that was linguistically interesting and i couldn't stop myself from rushing over to my notebook and writing it down < 1237152951 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually the difficulty of standing the feeling was i think in part due to the setting < 1237152955 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:35 AnMaster: oh :( < 1237152956 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: did you listen to music at all? < 1237152959 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do you hate people having fun, AnMaster < 1237152960 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1237152963 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i WANTED to < 1237152971 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :listen to music, it might make you want to become a musician :) < 1237152973 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanted to just curl up into a ball and listen to music and melt away < 1237152980 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i already want to lament :P < 1237153002 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but instead i had to lay there and listen to my two companions as they watched some silly movie < 1237153004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, I hate drugs. I _used_ to know someone who died due to an overdose of heroine... < 1237153017 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heroin < 1237153023 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: umm, people are stupid < 1237153025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, typo < 1237153033 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is that the drugs's fault < 1237153036 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could die from an overdose of heroine too. < 1237153040 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just like any addiction < 1237153043 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if wonderwoman sat on your face until you suffocated < 1237153051 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: an interesting mental image. < 1237153055 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best way to die < 1237153057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, I do not wish to speak about it. And fucking read what I said. < 1237153062 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wants to die from programming... < 1237153079 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I read what you said, thank you very much. I also answered coherently and I believe rebutted your arguments. < 1237153100 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you're letting emotions get in the way of rational reasoning. < 1237153101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, have any close friend to you died from an overdose of a drug? < 1237153121 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No; but if they had, I wouldn't start hating drugs, because that's a stupid and irrational thing to do in response to that. < 1237153153 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, Well then I can see why you don't understand. I have nothing more to discuss with you. < 1237153172 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't understand many irrational things. < 1237153177 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm addicted to weed a little < 1237153202 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see myself doing heroin though < 1237153203 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster & ehirdghost: you two sounds like an old couple :-) < 1237153205 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny, though, how you should get on a rational high horse ("I don't believe in god", "I don't believe in ghosts, just an illusion") right before claiming a wonderful non-sequitur < 1237153212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, as long as you can stay on top of it... < 1237153215 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr: Tell me about it. < 1237153236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Judofyr, I'm not sure what that is supposed to mean... < 1237153247 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my addiction to caffeine is more obvious < 1237153345 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to do drugs and jump out a window now, simultaneously, I mean, er, brb -> < 1237153363 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you do that. < 1237153593 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@a-115.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1237153838 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Quit" < 1237153953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there? < 1237153962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just found something useful for you in jitfunge < 1237154163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://rafb.net/p/KOu0WM19.html <-- ehird: do not repaste, that is copyrighted material :/ For log readers: Please see "Software Optimization Guide for AMD64 Processors" revision 3.06, section 5.15 < 1237154185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ^ < 1237154559 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The instructions they mention are SSE-only, though. And it'll be a while before I get to the optimizationary stage with jitfunge, you may need to remind me about that later. < 1237154583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, using conditional move should be another nice way to speed things up in certain cases. < 1237154592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, if I remember... < 1237154601 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That I already do to some extent. < 1237154608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? nice < 1237154616 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I think I do. < 1237154674 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, there is one single place where I emit a CMOVcc instruction. But still. < 1237154707 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1237154722 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The code generated by jitfunge is pretty sucky. < 1237154729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1237154732 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-131-23.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1237154756 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And my register allocator is borderline sucky, it doesn't even handle spilling correctly IIRC. Which is quite a lose, given how register-starved x86-32 is. < 1237154762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and yes I know they are SSE only. But you could fall back on non-SSE, either at runtime or compile time < 1237154798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, writing a good register allocator is hard iirc < 1237154803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and making it fast is even harder < 1237154816 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but mine is so far from good it's a bit embarrassing. < 1237154827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go fix it then? < 1237154847 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a lot more I have to fix; but I'll get to it, some day. < 1237154860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, or use llvm for backend < 1237154871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a good register allocator < 1237154931 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like I haven't been thinking about that. But I have a feeling I'd lose the otherwise pretty spiffy automagic stack-underflow check, since it requires pretty low-level control on what kind of instructions can be emitted to access the stack. < 1237154948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1237154949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1237154994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, which way does your stack grow? < 1237155037 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1237155053 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Up, currently; didn't you ask this some time ago? And mostly it grows up for the "more likely to have free space for extending the stack that way" reason, even though it probably doesn't really matter, and anyway there's the attempt to place it into middle of the wilderness of virtual addresses so that there'd be room both ways. < 1237155071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe I did but forgot < 1237155089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it does matter if you will implement fast STRN < 1237155092 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll have to think about the llvm thing. Currently the jitfunge code is pretty convoluted; maybe if I cleaned it up a bit so that there'd be a clean-ish-er interface between code generation and the rest of the code, I could even experiment better. < 1237155092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1237155107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, because you will end up like me, with slow reversing string < 1237155113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for y too, to push environment < 1237155117 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more slow string reversion < 1237155120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reversing* < 1237155133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes I grow up for ease of growing too < 1237155135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :realloc() < 1237155159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, or just steal the register allocator of llvm < 1237155170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it works with 1024 virtual registers iirc < 1237155220 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a rather non-fast approach to all dynamic uppercase instructions, at the very least there's a full all-funge-values-from-registers-to-stack flush plus a couple of setup instructions to store the stack pointer in edi (or whatever I kept it in) to the global stack-top variable. < 1237155238 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since you never know what the instruction might end up doing. < 1237155285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well true < 1237155303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you will likely need to do such flushes for the core too for some things < 1237155306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like i and o < 1237155329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, some fingerprint instructions could be implemented as "compile inline" < 1237155344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially FPSP, FIXP and FPDP would be good targets for that < 1237155348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very short generally < 1237155357 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I generate flush+function-call for all fingerprint instructions and core IO operations. Although that's partially because there's a C++ class you can implement to specify what kind of IO the interpreter does. < 1237155371 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1237155378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, have you read the C++ FQA? < 1237155389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not use a template to specialize it while you are at it! < 1237155395 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1237155419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why C++? Why not C? < 1237155437 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually that part is reasonably FQA-compatible. FQA answer: "If you want to be able to work with many different implementations selected at run time, abstract base class is the way to go." < 1237155461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I don't remember that one. But ok < 1237155493 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've ask myself the "why C++, why not C" question many times. < 1237155509 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you reach any answer? < 1237155517 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, you know, it was the C++ period; there is no rational answer. < 1237155530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, another thing: don't put a branch instruction across a 16 byte boundary. < 1237155535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if possible < 1237155557 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, well, I'm sure I could align those; what's the reason? < 1237155573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, branch prediction works better on many CPUs that way < 1237155589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also aligning is not recommended, better reorder instructions if possible < 1237155632 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Given my current code-generation strategy, that's not exactly trivial. But sure. < 1237155695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well the overhead of the nops would be larger than the gain if you have too many nops. IIRC someone said that: 1 byte alignment > branch over boundary > huge alignment < 1237155702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it 2? Well anwyay < 1237155706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway* < 1237155734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, both the AMD and Intel optimizing guides are good and interesting reads. < 1237155738 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gah, where is asiekierka when I need him < 1237155745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some advice is general. Some is CPU specific < 1237155750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some even contradict. < 1237155754 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but usually not < 1237155798 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do that full stack-flush for pretty much every 'p' instruction (except those with constant and small x/y arguments) too, since the 'p' might end up invalidating the currently-being-executed trace. Although I guess I could do some of the cleanup only in case the instruction actually did something like that; it was just simpler to flag 'p' as a flush-stack-before instruction. < 1237155799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I just got a crazy idea... < 1237155839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, Concurrent JIT < 1237155852 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pretty much all "advanced" optimilization things boil down to the fact that I don't have any sensible intermediate representation for code; that's why the llvm assembly would make sense. < 1237155853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one core runs the code, another compiles and optimises < 1237155867 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Do elaborate what you need him for, btw. < 1237155875 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: DOBELA. < 1237155884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, have you gone insane? < 1237155901 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not any more than previously, I don't think < 1237155916 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, the 99 % TC language. < 1237155943 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess what's meant by that is "most likely, but not proven"? < 1237155953 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess so, it was just amusingly expressed. < 1237155962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which one was it? < 1237155967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was it the bully automaton? < 1237156003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, fizzie: http://paste.lisp.org/display/77084 <-- Have I gone insane? < 1237156011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ais suggested so < 1237156016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't remember if you saw it < 1237156028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that syntax highlighting sucks < 1237156033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't highlight C99 comments < 1237156038 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: GCC creates worse code? < 1237156047 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did take a peek. It is rather... verbose. < 1237156047 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes. < 1237156060 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But whatever floats your funge-boat, I guess. < 1237156062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I have two level of fallbacks < 1237156073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that would be FPSP? < 1237156085 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Groan. < 1237156085 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1237156363 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tumtitum < 1237156550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, how do you spill registers? < 1237156605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AMD suggests adjusting stack pointer and using MOV rather than pushing. Or out of order execution won't work properly < 1237156681 0 :Corun!n=Corun@94-193-29-186.zone7.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1237156699 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't. < 1237156713 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/417121 I am breaking the law no more than AnMaster < 1237156713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you said you did for p? < 1237156714 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it doesn't even handle spilling correctly", like I said. < 1237156726 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, well, that. I don't count that. < 1237156733 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, uh, though that the microcode RISC compiler made PUSH do just that? < 1237156755 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do use MOV, because the funge-stack pointer is not in ESP. < 1237156799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I just mentioned what AMD said in AMD64 Architecture Programmer’s Manual Volume 1: Application Programming < 1237156814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :section 3.10.9 < 1237156814 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally... if I'm in a leaf function (or at least a part where there's no calls), can I pretty much do whatever I want with ebp/esp (assuming I don't care for things like gdb stack-trace in case of a crash) without having to worry about things breaking if, say, an interrupt occurs? < 1237156838 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, that url times out < 1237156841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*shrug* < 1237156844 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not for me. < 1237156849 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get a better isp < 1237156883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, fine, I will just refer to the section in the future, never paste it < 1237156885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1237156890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or paste in msg < 1237156895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot better for log readers < 1237156897 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and I'm sure everyone else will ask for a link. < 1237156897 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Hmm. Curious. < 1237156910 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should read that some time. < 1237156910 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think there are architectures/environments where you're contractually obliged to keep some amount of space free and accessible via a stack-pointery registers for emergency register-shadowing, for example. < 1237156919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, fun bed time reading ;) < 1237156923 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has been meaning to learn long mode assembly. < 1237156931 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, there are 5 volumes btw. < 1237156935 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know a precious little about x86 low-level details for a JIT-writer. < 1237156959 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Big deal? < 1237156977 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read voraciously. < 1237157013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1: Application programming 2: System programming 3: General purpose and System Instruction reference 4: 128-bit media instructions 5: 64-bit media instructions and x87 instructions < 1237157048 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should prove interesting. < 1237157069 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not the best thing for a n00b to assembly to read, but I already know assembly, so... < 1237157089 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(real mode and 32-bit protected mode, x86. Whooo.) < 1237157090 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, each is a pdf of around 300-500 pages < 1237157102 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Glee. < 1237157121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, the AMD64 Optimization guide is a separate 384 pages pdf btw. < 1237157128 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Double-glee. < 1237157138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, the index works well. < 1237157144 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, I will know more about x86-64 than any one man has any right knowing. :p < 1237157151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can usually find what I want quite quickly < 1237157164 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I am, of course, at this point mostly joking) < 1237157175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, the type is quite large < 1237157185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1237157192 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably good reference material, though. < 1237157231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, On a more serious note: the Intel docs tend to be much more densely written. And about as many pages. And harder to find what you want in. < 1237157237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just a fair warning. < 1237157249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(if that is correct English) < 1237157250 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% ghci -package dph-par uncomfortably-parallel.hs +RTS -N2 -g2 -RTS < 1237157262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, what does uncomfortably-parallel.hs do? < 1237157268 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it has two functions < 1237157272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1237157277 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doubleP, which parallely doubles a paralelly array of ints < 1237157278 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I had heard that AMD made somewhat more useful docs. < 1237157285 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and big, which is a parallely array of 1000000000 ints < 1237157300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1237157304 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dph-par is the multicore data parallel haskell package < 1237157309 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+RTS -N2 -g2 -RTS means < 1237157315 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"make the runtime use 2 threads, and use 2 threads for GC" < 1237157321 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm wait < 1237157325 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be cores+1 right? < 1237157330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, Hm. I hope that compiles into some threads running SSE instructions over it. < 1237157334 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+RTS -N3 -g3 -RTS < 1237157336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if yes it should be very fast < 1237157341 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I didn't enable vectorization < 1237157347 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it fails on my code; need to look into that < 1237157359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, well you could gain a 4x speed up from vectorization < 1237157361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also wth < 1237157422 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :: memory allocation failed (requested 4000317440 bytes) < 1237157424 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bollocks. < 1237157428 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION chops a zero < 1237157457 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, uh... do I need to have a sensible stack frame setup (ebp/esp) if I don't call anyone? I mean, I guess in a modern sort of operating system an interrupt actually does something context-switch-like to get a different stack? < 1237157476 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, come on ghc, use that cpu up, you're meant to be using 2 threads. < 1237157501 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess my code isn't uncomfortably vectorizable en- < 1237157501 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1237157504 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :182% CPU usage. < 1237157509 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, I think that's the garbage collector. < 1237157562 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So anyway, here's the code. < 1237157567 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{-# LANGUAGE PArr, ParallelListComp #-} < 1237157567 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :{-# OPTIONS -Odph #-} < 1237157568 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :import qualified Data.Array.Parallel.Prelude as P < 1237157570 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :import qualified Data.Array.Parallel.Prelude.Int as PI < 1237157572 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doubleP :: [:PI.Int:] -> [:PI.Int:] < 1237157574 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doubleP xs = [: x PI.* 2 | x <- xs :] < 1237157576 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :big :: [:PI.Int:] < 1237157578 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :big = P.replicateP 100000000 42 < 1237157580 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :adding -fvectorise to OPTIONS will make the vectoriser die with an evil error message. < 1237157583 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have fun. < 1237157584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1237157586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wow < 1237157589 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What < 1237157595 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P.S. "doubleP big `seq` ()"; you don't want to print _that_ out. < 1237157595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ate a bit of garlic flavoured bread < 1237157600 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. < 1237157601 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amazing. < 1237157604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then a bit of choclate < 1237157605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1237157613 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unbelievable. < 1237157613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chocolate* < 1237157617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the mix < 1237157622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was very tastey < 1237157624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tasty* < 1237157627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wow < 1237157627 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you exploded < 1237157636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, no, I haven't yet < 1237157640 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3...2...1... < 1237157642 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure whether I mentioned this already, but QBasic kind-of reminds me of MATLAB; the actual operations aren't necessarily slow (MATLAB's pretty fast at inverting a matrix, for example) but all code-flow including interpreted MATLAB script, like a for loop or something, is slow as anything. < 1237157645 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, now you're a ghost like me. < 1237157645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still here < 1237157650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrongf < 1237157654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wrong* < 1237157670 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.richardsimoes.com/gravity.html A fun game. Bring a canvas-supporting fastish JSy browser. < 1237157673 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a mouse. < 1237157675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : So, uh... do I need to have a sensible stack frame setup (ebp/esp) if I don't call anyone? I mean, I guess in a modern sort of operating system an interrupt actually does something context-switch-like to get a different stack? < 1237157679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not on x86_64 < 1237157688 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a nack for being a star. < 1237157690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use 128 bytes beyond the stack pointer there < 1237157697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, which is nice. < 1237157718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from man gcc: < 1237157719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : -mno-red-zone < 1237157719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Do not use a so called red zone for x86-64 code. The red zone is mandated by the x86-64 ABI, it is a 128-byte area beyond the location of the stack pointer that < 1237157719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : will not be modified by signal or interrupt handlers and therefore can be used for temporary data without adjusting the stack pointer. The flag -mno-red-zone dis‐ < 1237157719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ables this red zone. < 1237157742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc it doesn't/didn't work properly with the linux kernel < 1237157767 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall Linux caring about the ABI. < 1237157769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and I think you could run into issues with *signal* handlers if you didn't do this properly < 1237157777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hm? < 1237157789 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just saying "Yeah, probably not." < 1237157823 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, there are signal handlers too. I just would like to have ESP point at the Funge stack. < 1237157828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, did you just disagree or agree with me? < 1237157840 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Agree. < 1237157843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1237157853 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In about as vague a way as possible. < 1237157886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I think the gcc man page used to say that this option was for the linux kernel. But since it doesn't any more in the version I have here I guess the linux kernel now supports it. < 1237157914 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh. < 1237157919 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does anyone know why ld(1) is so slow? < 1237157927 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean seriously it takes seconds to link a trivial program < 1237157935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, I know why. < 1237157937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bad design. < 1237157946 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's got to be some _really_ bad design < 1237157952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, I remember reading a blog post by the initial ld author < 1237157957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if this is binutils ld < 1237157964 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsd < 1237157975 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, er < 1237157976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :binutils has ELF support more or less bolted in afterwards. < 1237157976 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1237157977 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :custom < 1237157979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had* < 1237157984 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darwin ld < 1237157984 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1237157985 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for Mach-O < 1237157986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, then I don't know. < 1237157995 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like this on every platform < 1237157996 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Binutils ld... Wasn't that mostly designed for the sake of flexibility, and not being even remotely speedy? < 1237158023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well that too. It interprets a linker script to find out how to link < 1237158031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is a new linker under development < 1237158033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :called "gold" < 1237158041 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, by google < 1237158042 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*sigh* < 1237158042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is written in C++ < 1237158045 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it work for mach-o? < 1237158048 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's hackers for ya. < 1237158048 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: why sigh/ < 1237158050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, not google iirc < 1237158053 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, no < 1237158055 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gold is by google < 1237158066 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gold is a linker for ELF files. It was added to binutils March, 2008[1][2], and first released in binutils version 2.19. Gold was developed by Ian Lance Taylor of Google[3]. < 1237158071 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it stands for GOogle LD < 1237158076 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://google-opensource.blogspot.com/2008/04/gold-google-releases-new-and-improved.html < 1237158083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, err I remember reading original binutils ld author worked on it < 1237158089 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe he works at google. < 1237158089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe he works for google < 1237158092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1237158127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ian Lance Taylor" < 1237158245 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1237158630 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads < 1237158732 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1237158745 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Peace and Protection 4.22.2" < 1237158910 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah, boring < 1237158920 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's simply a list of micro-optimizations < 1237158991 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yow, new freshmeat.net < 1237159219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, which was/is best old or new look? < 1237159230 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both are ugly < 1237159238 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the newer is slightly easier to read, but has more cruft. < 1237159286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why a white box beside the logo? < 1237159302 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's freshmeat? < 1237159324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like asking "what is sourceforge" < 1237159340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://freshmeat.net/about < 1237159383 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :borign < 1237159392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did you ask then < 1237159412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it's simply a list of micro-optimizations <-- what is? < 1237159426 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the amd64 optimization guide < 1237159442 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: white box beside the logo? < 1237159443 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Excuse me what < 1237159451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, well yes. The reference docs are more interesting < 1237159454 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"use 64 bit operations instead of 32 bit operation when 64 bits are needed" < 1237159456 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no fucking shit? < 1237159474 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: link < 1237159477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, some are like that yes. Some are more interesting. Check the SSE stuff. < 1237159484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, a sec < 1237159487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, what? < 1237159501 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:21 AnMaster: why a white box beside the logo? < 1237159503 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see no white box < 1237159503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, see the logo at the top? < 1237159506 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1237159516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, see the huge box to the right of it? < 1237159519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me it is white < 1237159526 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1237159528 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are ads there, for me. < 1237159533 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since I don't block them. < 1237159537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, oh ok < 1237159542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can you live with ads. < 1237159549 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't notice them. < 1237159568 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And some sites's layouts go a bit unbalanced-looking without them filling space, so. < 1237159618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, this is part 1 of 5 http://www.amd.com/us-en/assets/content_type/white_papers_and_tech_docs/24592.pdf < 1237159647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, for links to all: http://www.amd.com/us-en/Processors/DevelopWithAMD/0,,30_2252_875_7044,00.html < 1237159657 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1237159667 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i requested all the intel x86 docs once < 1237159673 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was funny < 1237159675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, oh? < 1237159679 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are sitting in my closet somewhere < 1237159695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, I think they are available as pdfs nowdays < 1237159697 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like 8 volumes 3" thick < 1237159705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, also what did it cost you? < 1237159710 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing < 1237159719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1237159737 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they send them out free < 1237159823 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can't sell any processors if no one develops for them < 1237159828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1237159845 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, I prefer pdf. Comes with Ctrl-F to speed up searching < 1237159920 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer hypertext that's displayed how I want, with a plaintext open markup language behind it that I can copy and paste from; instead of a closed-world NowYourMonitorCanBeAnInflexiblePieceOfPaper propreitary format that doesn't let me view it how i want it. < 1237159921 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1237159951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, Um I can view it how I want it < 1237159973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, if your pdf viewer follows the copy protection stuff replace it < 1237159975 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can change a PDF's font? Get rid of the irritating two-column format? Run sed over it? < 1237159977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with an more open one < 1237159985 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like to know how. < 1237159985 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, pdf2edit < 1237160005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well: pdf2ps | ps2edit < 1237160017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ps2ascii ps2eps ps2epsi ps2frag ps2pdf ps2pdf12 ps2pdf13 ps2pdf14 ps2pdfwr ps2pk ps2ps ps2ps2 < 1237160019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have those < 1237160022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and pdf2dsc pdf2ps < 1237160026 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go on then, I'll give you a tex rendered PDF; you change the font to something more respectable, let me resize the window to resize the text (instead of just zooming), make it two columns and flush left, ... < 1237160037 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you can do it in <2mins I'll be impressed. < 1237160045 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... More respectable? < 1237160056 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You mean it comes more respectable than Computer Modern? < 1237160056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, well ok you are right about that bit. But I prefer pdf over xps < 1237160058 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That was a joke. < 1237160068 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good, good. < 1237160073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, no it doesn't. CM > * < 1237160083 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Computer Modern doesn't really work too well on a screen IME. < 1237160089 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too many curly parts. < 1237160095 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, it's very much a print font. < 1237160110 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I requested Zilog's Z80 databook once, in a physical format; and it was actually pretty useful when writing some TI-86 code. I gave it away as a gift, though. < 1237160112 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's much easier to read dead trees < 1237160127 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wonderful on dead trees, though. < 1237160137 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of the book was just timing diagrams, though. < 1237160143 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love computer modern < 1237160159 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find screen reading as easy as book reading, but that's for a justified book with a good serif font with sufficiently bold text, and a sans-serif or lightweight serif screen font that's sufficiently light and ragged right < 1237160163 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, very different requirements. < 1237160186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't even find Intel documentation any moer < 1237160187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more* < 1237160189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is it < 1237160232 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.intel.com/software/products/documentation/vlin/mergedprojects/analyzer_ec/mergedprojects/reference_olh/reference_hh/intel_s_software_developer_s_manuals.htm has links. < 1237160245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hard to find < 1237160260 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost: Yeah; different fonts for different purposes. < 1237160270 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The developer.intel.com search should find 'em with the right keywords, like "architecture" and "manual". < 1237160282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer adjusted margins on screen < 1237160291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, was trying on intel.com... < 1237160292 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://developer.intel.com/products/processor/manuals/index.htm < 1237160297 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see "order a printed copy" < 1237160300 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.intel.com/products/processor/manuals/ also looks like a good list. < 1237160303 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1237160323 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish that web browsers would do justified text rendering, though... < 1237160334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking of their optimization guide thingy < 1237160342 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tex's justification algorithm is so complicated < 1237160347 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1237160350 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intel® 64 and IA-32 Architectures Optimization Reference Manual is on that page. < 1237160359 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: and also awesome. < 1237160360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try the package microtype to get even better results < 1237160365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :work best with pdftex < 1237160369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or luatex < 1237160374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works* < 1237160376 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love XeTeX < 1237160393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, no idea if it supports micro-typography < 1237160400 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1237160405 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, like optically straight margins? < 1237160407 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1237160410 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's all about that kind of stuff < 1237160420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, how do you turn it on? < 1237160421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for it < 1237160428 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same way as normal < 1237160430 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe < 1237160436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, which is? < 1237160447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for pdftex you use the package microtype. And docs says it only works for pdftex < 1237160448 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I gather that microtype is basically a set of improvements on TeX's justification algorithm. < 1237160448 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm, the microtype package thang? < 1237160449 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1237160463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, kerning too + a few other things < 1237160469 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1237160469 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.tug.org/pipermail/xetex/2004-October/001206.html < 1237160471 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's from 2004 though < 1237160472 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1237160475 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xetex has kerning and stuff < 1237160480 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :built in < 1237160481 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Improvements on its kerning, also... < 1237160494 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://nitens.org/taraborelli/latex < 1237160498 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was made with xetex < 1237160504 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, very typographically sound < 1237160519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, http://www.ctan.org/get/macros/latex/contrib/microtype/microtype.pdf < 1237160524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what I'm talking about < 1237160529 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am aware. < 1237160551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, can it do those things? < 1237160562 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so. < 1237160569 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The whole point of XeTeX was to improve the fonty stuff. < 1237160575 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Unicode support < 1237160588 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Opentype instead of METAFONT. < 1237160591 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&id=XeTeX < 1237160595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, well what about the optically straight margins bit < 1237160599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that in particular < 1237160617 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so < 1237160620 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm no expert, but I think so < 1237160689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, also how does xetex work on non-OSX? < 1237160699 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How does it not? < 1237160701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the mail you linked talks about quartz < 1237160704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.tug.org/pipermail/xetex/2004-October/001206.html < 1237160708 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&item_id=xetex_linux < 1237160708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which iirc is OS X specific < 1237160720 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XeTeX is part TeX Live. < 1237160730 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Part of, rather. < 1237160732 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I know. I have it installed < 1237160744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just trying to make sense of how < 1237160750 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same damned way. < 1237160768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, not the quartz bit obviously < 1237160779 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :different code on different platforms WHAT < 1237160782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the page ehirdghost linked mentioned < 1237160783 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Impossible < 1237160814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, depends on how much needs to be ported < 1237160819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what can be the same < 1237160839 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeType, I suspect, is used instead of Quartz for font rendering. < 1237160840 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-14-16.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1237160853 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. OpenType. < 1237160863 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost: OpenType is a font *format*. < 1237160867 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err right < 1237160869 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorr < 1237160869 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :misread < 1237160878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like METAFONT < 1237160881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is wrong with it? < 1237160882 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FreeType is the Linux implementation of an OpenType renderer. < 1237160890 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, it doesn't do Unicode. < 1237160898 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And OpenType is, iirc, more featureful. < 1237160900 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And more widely supported. < 1237160904 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And more fonts are available in it. < 1237160908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I included some Swedish text encoded as UTF-8 with no issues < 1237160908 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1237160916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to pdftex yesterday < 1237160925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :used Latin Modern I think < 1237160938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't remember what font format that is < 1237160956 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i never metaf *hit by falling anvil* < 1237160963 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PDFTeX uses TrueType and Type 1 fonts. < 1237160984 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"XeTeX on Linux depends on an extended version of the DVIPDFMx driver by Shunsaku Hirata and Jin-Hwan Cho to generate PDF output"; that's what it does on Linux, instead of Quartz. < 1237161003 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough. < 1237161013 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, I don't know what that driver does. < 1237161015 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Stop reading! You're not allowed to. You have to ask questions of people who don't know the answer. < 1237161019 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably part of TeXLive's dvi2pdf. < 1237161028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, I read it. < 1237161031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : as the page ehirdghost linked mentioned < 1237161037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just pikhq didn't < 1237161045 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you read it, that's why you asked me straight after. < 1237161055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, ? < 1237161080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, what are you talking about? < 1237161115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, I didn't ask you after. < 1237161116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1237161127 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure you did < 1237161128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehirdghost, also how does xetex work on non-OSX? < 1237161129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : How does it not? < 1237161129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : the mail you linked talks about quartz < 1237161129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://www.tug.org/pipermail/xetex/2004-October/001206.html < 1237161130 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you kept asking what it used instead of quartz < 1237161131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : which iirc is OS X specific < 1237161134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : http://scripts.sil.org/cms/scripts/page.php?site_id=nrsi&item_id=xetex_linux < 1237161144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after that I didn't ask < 1237161157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, what line after that? < 1237161164 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ff < 1237161181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, does that mean you admit you were wrong? < 1237161189 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it means i can't be bothered to continue < 1237161368 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Speaking of web browsers and text layout, there's the horrible thing called sIFR; http://www.mikeindustries.com/blog/sifr/ -- the "How it works" explains a very nice method of using up spare CPU cycles. < 1237161388 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh yes; I hate those things. < 1237161419 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Actionscript inside of each Flash file then draws that text in your chosen typeface at a 6 point size and scales it up until it fits snugly inside the Flash movie. " < 1237161420 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahaahaha < 1237161425 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Best algorithm ever < 1237161448 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats straight through ehirdghost -----### FOR SCIENCE! < 1237161454 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1237161457 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I felt nothing. < 1237161471 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The visual representation is just an astral equiprojection of my statis, you know. < 1237161480 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION repeats the experiment for statistical significance -----### < 1237161489 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :La la la la. < 1237161512 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like the statistical saying goes: "With a large enough N, all bugs are shallow." Or something like that, anyway. < 1237161557 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there is some probability that it says that < 1237161945 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, SIFR seems to do absolutely nothing here. < 1237161970 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah well. Means that things won't find a way to fuck with my font setting. < 1237162001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : "Actionscript inside of each Flash file then draws that text in your chosen typeface at a 6 point size and scales it up until it fits snugly inside the Flash movie. " <-- Why not do it in INTERCAL instead. Really it would make perfect sense for an esolang. But for this?... < 1237162020 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(a nice serif font with thin lines; rather nice to read at a decent DPI) < 1237162020 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sIFR does nothing with noscript, either, but still. < 1237162035 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have noscript. Just AdBlock... < 1237162046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use both noscript and adblock plus < 1237162055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and have no flash or java plugins < 1237162059 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Noscript doesn't work with Conkeror. < 1237162080 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sIFR runs fine under other extensions like AdBlock"; that shouldn't be related. < 1237162091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, mhm < 1237162096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why do you use that? < 1237162109 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mouseless browsing. < 1237162113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1237162144 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's XULrunner based, so just about everything works anyways. < 1237162147 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conkeror is emacs for Firefox. < 1237162157 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Emacs for Gecko, rather. < 1237162160 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not sure why that would elicit a "why" from AnMaster. < 1237162169 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not been a Firefox extension for a couple of years. < 1237162170 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's rather more Firefox than just Gecko < 1237162176 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION <3 the future. < 1237162180 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway; sIFR is not the stupidest thing I've seen (I mean, it's not like placing body text in an image, for example; and they strongly advise against using it for body text, anyway), just silley. < 1237162184 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's XULrunner. < 1237162194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, agreed < 1237162198 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is Gecko with the ability to load arbitrary XUL... < 1237162206 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We do things by pulling little computer programs across the world < 1237162232 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Soon we'll have intelligent agents running around! < 1237162269 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SimonRC: wut < 1237162270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :firefox use xulrunner... < 1237162288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, duh. read what he said above < 1237162300 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:09 SimonRC <3 the future. < 1237162301 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:10 SimonRC: We do things by pulling little computer programs across the world < 1237162302 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I repeat: wt. < 1237162304 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut < 1237162306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is crystal clear... < 1237162307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1237162309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night btw < 1237162313 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, it is? < 1237162333 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, we live in the future < 1237162343 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am fairly sure we live in the present, SimonRC. < 1237162350 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fairly sure indeed. < 1237162358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, no. You are a ghost. You don't live < 1237162363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you lived in the past. < 1237162367 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/the future/The Future/ < 1237162370 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: By the way, we've been pulling little computer programs across the world for stuff since at *least* the invention of Javascript. ;) < 1237162379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, indeed. < 1237162387 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably longer, if you count, say, UUCP. < 1237162390 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I metalive. < 1237162398 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not certain, but I think I was thinking this before Munroe made a comic about it < 1237162405 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never metalive I didn't like. < 1237162414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, I chose to ignore that pun and instead point out that is not valid grammar. < 1237162436 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will now metakill you. < 1237162468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also why is "I never meta I " supposed to be funny? It is a rather lame pun IMO. < 1237162539 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, how do the licensing terms go; if I have a copy of OS X, can I use some of the bundled fonts on a different computar? (I'm not sure I want to, just hypothetically speaking.) < 1237162546 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :computer* < 1237162564 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, sorry, I meant CANTOR-UPPER. < 1237162565 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm not sure. There's no DRM or anything; I don't think anyone cares. < 1237162588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that made no sense. < 1237162604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is noway near "computer" when you pronounce it < 1237162604 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I don't think there is anything in the EULA or whatnot. < 1237162620 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: So it'd just be standard copyright law; if you're using it on another computer you own, fair use, probably. < 1237162626 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Assuming the computer in question supports TrueType or OpenType, yeah. < 1237162640 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: he means can as in legally < 1237162642 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"is it allowed" < 1237162645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, what if you use it in a document and that cause it to be bundled... < 1237162655 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, all fonts let you bundle them in PDFs and whatnot, I think/ < 1237162661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, say a document with the entire UTF-8 chart :D < 1237162665 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most any sane one, at least. < 1237162673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so end user can extract it all < 1237162677 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay; if that's the truedness, there's some form of common sense left. < 1237162681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would that be legal? < 1237162683 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I've done it < 1237162688 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just used a converter of .dfont -> .ttf, iirc < 1237162691 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it worked fine < 1237162693 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Called "fondu" < 1237162702 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No DRM or anything; one command line invocation and an upload < 1237162707 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, fun fact. Typefaces are not subject to copyright. < 1237162707 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, I have it from reputable sources that you also download QuickBASIC copies of dubious legality. < 1237162714 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Really? < 1237162721 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost: sounds a bit cheesy < 1237162723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what are they subject to then? And is that US only? < 1237162726 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Then why was Arial ever created? < 1237162730 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The *computer code* describing them can be. < 1237162731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, augh < 1237162747 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost: Novel and non-obvious designs can be patented. < 1237162756 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Helvetica is pretty "obvious"... < 1237162762 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1237162834 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As a side note, does anyone actually use Zapfino? < 1237162836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :opentype contains parts under patent < 1237162837 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's utterly unreadabl < 1237162838 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1237162863 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other countries have typeface copyright. < 1237162870 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, I'm not sure "file" is correct here: "Monaco.dfont: MS Windows icon resource" < 1237162874 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yeah; mostly the hinting algorithms, IIRC. < 1237162876 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Does Europe? < 1237162879 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: :-D < 1237162884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, others == non-US or? < 1237162884 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Monaco is love. < 1237162892 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Others == non-US. < 1237162904 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Unfortunately, just before the project was completed, Siegel wrote a letter to Zapf, saying that his girlfriend had left him, and that he had lost all interest in anything. Thus Siegel abandoned the project and started a new life, working on bringing color to Macintosh computers, and later becoming an Internet design expert. " < 1237162905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, who cares about US? < 1237162906 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XDD < 1237162908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't < 1237162920 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry; hard to get out of US-centric phrasing sometimes. < 1237162920 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, I know you take pride in your rabid hate of the US (because IT'S POPULAR or something). < 1237162926 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of us don't. < 1237162951 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, Zapfino? Unreadable? < 1237162962 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ehm, yes. < 1237162984 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it looks like calligraphic text. Rather readable, though probably not the best for long works. < 1237162997 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's hard for me to read… < 1237163015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X specific? < 1237163021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't find it here < 1237163027 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: OS X builtin font. < 1237163033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :screenshot? < 1237163040 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :entirely separate from os x < 1237163044 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but bundled with OS X < 1237163054 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saying "OS X specific" is Wrong; I don't know of any OS X only fonts. < 1237163061 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c7/Zapfino.svg < 1237163063 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe Geneva < 1237163079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's nice < 1237163088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :readable for being a calligraphic one < 1237163089 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, but try reading text in it < 1237163103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, It would be good for logos or such < 1237163108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not for long works no < 1237163125 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost: Calligraphic fonts aren't meant for long works... < 1237163128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but why so many variants there < 1237163131 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course. < 1237163135 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But even for titles. < 1237163143 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it has over 18,000 ligs < 1237163145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how do you select which one? < 1237163148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, wow.... < 1237163150 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and manually < 1237163152 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik < 1237163156 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XeTeX. ;) < 1237163164 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er wait < 1237163166 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1,400 ligs < 1237163169 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still insane < 1237163172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah ok < 1237163186 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'ma download MacTeX < 1237163194 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does it still use that ugly iInstaller crap, I wonder. < 1237163254 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh lord, FTP. < 1237163259 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why, why FTP. < 1237163275 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, an HTTP mirror. < 1237163281 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :700KB/sec. Most excellent. < 1237163283 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thank you Germany. < 1237163296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, what is wrong with ftp.... < 1237163301 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything < 1237163318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, passive ftp works fine in my experience < 1237163337 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aside from it's connecting back to the initiator of the connection for the transfer link, it's a decent protocol. < 1237163343 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perhaps a bit overengineered, though. < 1237163345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, indeed < 1237163358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, parallel transfers are nice though < 1237163360 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's completely insecure in every way, and for passive basic file downloads it has 0 advantages compared to HTTP < 1237163362 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True, true. < 1237163366 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And several disadvantages < 1237163370 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such as? < 1237163380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, apart from connect back? < 1237163395 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: have you ever _used_ FTP/ < 1237163397 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1237163403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, I have < 1237163408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for both up and download < 1237163424 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I have. < 1237163427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works well, apart from the insecure bit and separate data channel. < 1237163429 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, the server software required for it is bit too large... < 1237163433 0 :Corun!n=Corun@94-193-29-186.zone7.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1237163445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, err. ISS is a bit insecure. Lets drop http < 1237163456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, there are small FTP servers. < 1237163457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1237163460 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ftp(1) is a rather nice program. < 1237163484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, indeed. I prefer sftp though mostly. For security < 1237163488 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari: Uh, ftpd probably comes in under a megabyte. < 1237163492 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, yeah. < 1237163528 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Implementing HTTP server is probably smaller task than implementing FTP server... < 1237163533 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least with FTP you can, on host C, transfer data between servers A and B without things going through C. < 1237163549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, "probably"? < 1237163549 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is horribly complicated due to historical raisins, though. < 1237163549 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1237163561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I managed that with scp iirc < 1237163584 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I find it very unlikely that scp can do it. < 1237163592 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sftp can, scp can't. < 1237163595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, maybe sftp then < 1237163596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1237163623 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How do you do it with sftp, then? < 1237163655 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sftp foo:bar baz: < 1237163672 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION boo < 1237163676 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, had to fill my ghost quota. < 1237163690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, so what was the issue you had with ftp? < 1237163696 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Whooooo < 1237163700 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHOAOOAOOOOOO < 1237163702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you never answered what apart from separate control channel < 1237163712 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/sftp/scp/; sorry. sftp is a ftp-style program, and current scp programs are just sftp frontends. < 1237163713 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That writes to local file "baz:" here. < 1237163720 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Really?!? < 1237163726 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and current scp programs are just sftp frontends." < 1237163728 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait what? < 1237163731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1237163738 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry. That was an epic thinko. < 1237163745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are not < 1237163753 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT WAS DUMB. < 1237163759 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1237163779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, still. I'm waiting for an answer < 1237163779 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I enjoy infuriating you by withholding it. :P < 1237163779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you seem to avoid answering the question < 1237163780 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHOAOAOAOA < 1237163799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, well I just think it means you can't think of any rational reasons < 1237163800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1237163804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so your loss < 1237163809 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's your prerogative < 1237163879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that comment made me even more sure about what I just said < 1237163892 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I get "Permission denied, please try again. Permission denied, please try again. Permission denied (publickey,password,hostbased)." for a two-host scp thing. That is a bit strange. < 1237163893 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you haven't realised yet, I really don't care what you think about me. < 1237163908 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gawd, MacTex is 1GB… I don't even know how that's possible… still in awe < 1237163915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, I think you do actually. Just are afraid to admit it < 1237163926 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hahahaaha; you wish, maybe < 1237163944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, you feel insecure in yourself < 1237163960 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"you show all the signs of not caring what I think about you; therefore you are insecure and secretly desire my confirmation but are too scared to seek it" < 1237163969 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I'm sure. Solid reasoning there. < 1237163993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, except you don't "show all signs of not caring". You rather try to show that but fail. < 1237164001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is very different < 1237164023 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're opening up my heart and showing me my deepest desires. It would be heartbreaking if it wasn't bullshit. < 1237164064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, Yes you are scared to admit it. The more you deny it, the more you prove it. ;P < 1237164083 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am not a ghost. I am not a ghost. I am not a ghost. I am not a ghost. I am not a ghost. I am not a ghost. I am not a ghost. I am not a ghost. < 1237164086 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now you have to believe I am. < 1237164110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, Um, how does that follow logically < 1237164126 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1237164129 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"X is true. Evidence: You are denying X many times." < 1237164137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say everything was opposite of what you said. < 1237164171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, also just ask random $person with a tinfoil hat! The gov denies it so it must be tru! < 1237164173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true!* < 1237164176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ < 1237164184 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9/11 was an inside loeb < 1237164190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :loeb? < 1237164207 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[]([]P -> P) -> []P < 1237164219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, ...? < 1237164225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell I see < 1237164228 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Löb's_theorem < 1237164235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm no < 1237164239 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm yes. < 1237164241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wikipedia does not have an article with this exact name. Please search for Löbs theorem in Wikipedia to check for alternative titles or spellings. < 1237164242 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1237164243 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm no < 1237164249 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't see what you asid < 1237164254 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you forgot the apostrophe < 1237164275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, my irc client did < 1237164282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :click fail < 1237164352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There is a paraconsistent version in Carl Hewitt [2008]." <-- ? < 1237164359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth does that mean < 1237164367 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't you have a dictionary? < 1237164384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not here, and parents are sleeping in the room with it < 1237164386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no < 1237164403 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your computer blocks all dictionary sites? < 1237164404 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How queer. < 1237164418 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except the gay ones, obviously < 1237164421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, that was a result of your curse before < 1237164428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you typoed it < 1237164452 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T'was no typo; was the speak of thine ghosts. < 1237164472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, well that made it misfire < 1237164483 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have an extravolutionary version of the language communicasystem; for extra extrapossibilities with which to extrapolate. < 1237164486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so now it blocks me googling for anything you mentions < 1237164489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for life < 1237164490 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie appears to be fluent in it while alive; though. < 1237164496 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe he is a ghost. < 1237164504 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Wikipedia mentioned paraconsistent, not I. < 1237164515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, directly or indirectly < 1237164520 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it affects this < 1237164522 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Everything. < 1237164527 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now you can never use Google. < 1237164539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, not for the word "everything" no < 1237164550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is only literal phrases like that < 1237164554 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AMD. Intel. x86. x86_64 < 1237164557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I already know that word < 1237164558 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Befunge. < 1237164560 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cfunge. < 1237164561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those < 1237164564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it won't affect < 1237164567 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You can never look up info about them < 1237164568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only unknown ones < 1237164576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, wrong. Only unknown words < 1237164600 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is particularly arbitrary. < 1237164605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, plus due to the misfire it is time limited. Lasts about 1-1.5 weeks in average :/ < 1237164620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, well if you haven't typoed it, it wouldn't have misfired < 1237164634 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If this sentence is true, then AnMaster is cursed. < 1237164638 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Logical bomb in your face. < 1237164662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, fail to see the logical bomb there... < 1237164676 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Curry's_paradox < 1237164762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. That is just a false statement due to the A then B not being a casual connection < 1237164780 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see you didn't read the article. < 1237164826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the whole yet. But false was the wrong word. The right word would be: logical nonsense not connected with the real world. < 1237164849 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, uh, keep reading. < 1237164918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"In formal languages, we sometimes interpret "If X then Y" as a material conditional. On this reading, it simply means "Y, or else not X". Here we would read the sentence as "Santa Claus exists, or this sentence is false". On this reading, Curry's paradox is simply a variant on the liar paradox. However, in natural language this is not usually what we mean by "If X then Y". For instance, "if 6*7=42, t < 1237164918 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hen the moon exists" is true as a material implication, but is generally not considered true in natural language, because the moon's existence does not seem to be related to this fact of arithmetic." < 1237164920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, ^ < 1237164935 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1237164970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in other words. the claim describes a non-existent causal connection. < 1237164978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or: logical nonsense < 1237165121 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modusPonens :: (p -> q, p) -> q < 1237165159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, natural language isn't an exact science < 1237165164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :languages* < 1237165175 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Shush, I'm doing logics in mah type system. < 1237165187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, well not abov < 1237165190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :above' < 1237165191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* < 1237165195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when you said it < 1237165200 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, a proof of the above proposition: < 1237165203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blergh this kbedor < 1237165205 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :modusPonens (f, x) = f x < 1237165206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keyboard* < 1237165244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, as I said. Why would it be related < 1237165252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have to prove to me there is such a connection first < 1237165262 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was making a cheap joke. < 1237165263 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chill. < 1237165297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, I mean I think this paradox is rather lame. It forgets about this think called "false claim" even "lie" < 1237165310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not much of a paradox < 1237165320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you enter garbage you will get garbage back < 1237165325 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, I don't think you understood it. < 1237165331 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: care to explain it to him? < 1237165394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, < 1237165418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try telling someone on the street < 1237165441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"if this sentence is true, then you must give me all your money" < 1237165447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see what reaction you get < 1237165461 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bweheheh. < 1237165477 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, because going up to a random person on a street is an environment of complete logic and formal reasoning. < 1237165488 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That happens to be the most retarded reasoning I've heard today, though. I'll give you that. < 1237165525 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is, of course, sanest to observe that there is nothing compelling anyone to give you money, therefore the sentence is quite false. < 1237165535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, Yes it is the same because natural languages allow this thing called lie. You have to prove your "if A then B" really is a connection that exists < 1237165551 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you actually look at the formal language section < 1237165563 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: please relieve the strain from my being and explain it to him < 1237165564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, natural languages isn't a formal language < 1237165579 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, and you said it in natural language first < 1237165638 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say it in Lojban. < 1237165643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, so tell me, why do you think the initial assertment: if true then P is valid? < 1237165643 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1237165665 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan; I'm tired of this idiot, plz take him < 1237165681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just saying if you put in garbage you get garbage back < 1237165687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try being practical < 1237165709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I don't know lojban < 1237165759 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Practical or logically correct. < 1237165763 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I take the latter. < 1237165776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd prefer to combine them < 1237165786 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You let the former take precedence, evidently. < 1237165791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a down to earth approach < 1237165800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that actually gives useful results < 1237165817 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might think you less of an idiot if your only argument wasn't "that's wrong, ask a random person on the street" < 1237165833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, I have given a lot of other arguments < 1237165845 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To the ether, maybe—certainly not here. < 1237165848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that one was mostly a joke < 1237165866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, ........ read scrollback < 1237165874 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did; maybe you're hallucinating. < 1237165898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, I told you that you need to verify your claims are relevant before you use them < 1237165914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if pink then blue < 1237165936 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try making logical sense; or don't because I can't be arsed, you're clearly not interested in actual logic more than fuzzy human intuitive belief bullshit < 1237165937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now what does that mean? does it make a lot of sense? No 1) it is out of context. < 1237165965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) even if it was in context, how could you know that this implication is really true < 1237165994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :logic is a useful tool only when you put useful input into it < 1237166009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you just feed it random data you will get garbage back < 1237166033 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, that makes absolutely no sense whatsoever. < 1237166036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, clearly you fail to see you need to verify the initial assertions to be able to extrapolate from them < 1237166038 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do you actually understand what you'r esaying? < 1237166042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, yes < 1237166046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't I see < 1237166054 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think you should read the article very carefully again. < 1237166066 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, I did. And you saw I quoted a bit ? < 1237166078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"For instance, "if 6*7=42, then the moon exists" is true as a material implication, but is generally not considered true in natural language, because the moon's existence does not seem to be related to this fact of arithmetic." < 1237166082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read that again please < 1237166097 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you missed the bit that came next. Anyway, fuck off, this is boring and you clearly have no grasp of logic whatsoever. < 1237166108 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1237166125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, lets say you are coding in prolog < 1237166136 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not. Interested. < 1237166136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and listing initial "facts" or whatever < 1237166160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then don't those facts also have to be true for the problem you are trying to solve < 1237166163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be useful? < 1237166174 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you miss where I said not interested? < 1237166174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can only build your your axiojms < 1237166177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :axioms* < 1237166186 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're an idiot; you completely misunderstand Curry's paradox, and I am tired of talking. < 1237166187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if your axioms are false... tough luck < 1237166198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, good thing you are writing then < 1237166204 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Curry's paradox has nothing to do with defining axioms whatsoever. Go. Away < 1237166490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest a system with three truth values: true, false, EPARADOX (fatal error) < 1237166494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~ < 1237166515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, ;Å < 1237166517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P* < 1237166526 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is glad he was afk < 1237166586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, do you agree that if you enter false initial "facts/axioms" in a theorem prover you will get a useless result back? < 1237166593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes or no < 1237166602 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1237166604 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's nothing to do with curry's paradox < 1237166614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the wikipedia page it seems to be that < 1237166631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if foo then bar. Well sure. If that connection actually holds. < 1237166636 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: can you explain curry's paradox to him… < 1237166642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if it doesn't. Tough luck < 1237166704 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no tonight my dear, i've got a headache < 1237166708 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*not < 1237166709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now a really interesting paradox is Russel's paradox for example. < 1237166722 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :curry's paradox is a generalization of russell's paradox. < 1237166759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, well I have been discussing this in the context of the natural language case. Which is what we begin with. < 1237166775 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :natural language doesn't excuse you from using logic < 1237166803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but natural language is well known for not being a formally well defined language < 1237166872 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By your logic, all representations of logical formula in natural language suddenly lose their attachment to logic because you change '->' to 'implies'. < 1237167014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : For instance, consider the following sentence: < 1237167014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : If a man with flying reindeer has delivered presents to all the good children in the world in one night, then Santa Claus exists. < 1237167014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imagine that a man with flying reindeer has, in fact, done this. Does Santa Claus exist, in that case? It would seem so. <-- sounds probable yes. But it *could* be someone else doing it. It would need further investigation. Such an event would be circumstantial evidence. Not proof < 1237167021 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, ^ < 1237167042 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say, remember when I said I don't give a shit that you're logically illiterate? < 1237167046 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Guess what hasn't changed? < 1237167072 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1237167082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, the fact that this is not really a paradox in natural languages. Just a nonsense statement < 1237167093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that hasn't changed < 1237167184 0 :SimonRC!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes to bed. < 1237167189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same < 1237167190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1237170476 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-101-128.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1237170933 0 :CakeProphet!n=seveninc@wikipedia/The-Prophet-Wizard-of-the-Crayon-Cake JOIN :#esoteric < 1237171139 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1237171343 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1237171667 0 :cherez!n=cherez@r02snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1237171672 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1237171685 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's alive! < 1237171696 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(BWAHAHA) < 1237171796 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1237172821 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-101-128.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1237173842 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1237176754 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1237179646 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1237180241 0 :CakeProphet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"lol" < 1237182309 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1237182455 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1237190399 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1237190400 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1237191660 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-123-180.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1237191958 0 :Dewi!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"bbl - storm" < 1237192293 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1237192983 0 :neldoreth!n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth JOIN :#esoteric < 1237193415 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1237195577 0 :tombom!i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1237196087 0 :psygnisfive!n=psygnisf@c-71-57-164-119.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1237196096 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1237196107 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :natural language quantifiers are AWESOME. < 1237196112 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just feel you should know this. < 1237197913 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Quit: Quit: Quit: Quit: Quit: Quit: Quit: Quit: Quit: Quit" < 1237199684 0 :oklofok!n=nnscript@a91-153-121-248.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1237200211 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-84-20.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1237200821 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1237200960 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-44-150.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1237201319 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 145 (Connection timed out) < 1237205956 0 :Dewi!n=dewi@124-171-157-47.dyn.iinet.net.au JOIN :#esoteric < 1237210443 0 :neldoret1!n=user@81-223-127-237.stpeter.xdsl-line.inode.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1237211015 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1237212088 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1237212151 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-127-9.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1237214339 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-027-168.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1237216174 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1237216436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1237216485 0 :ehird!n=ehird@208.78.103.223 JOIN :#esoteric < 1237216563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1237216840 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1237216865 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nobody is ever actively on #anagol even though some names are listed < 1237216872 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is that? < 1237216919 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not too popular a channel < 1237216922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes people talk < 1237216940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A lot of people leave their IRC clients on to read what people said when they're not away, for channels that aren't logged < 1237216941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do that < 1237216949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe some of them will have away set in /whois < 1237217023 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried whois shinh and stuff like that but I'm not sure if that means they are away or not < 1237217208 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-027-168.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1237217261 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried various names with whois command but I can't see anything about away, is there some code for being away that I forgot about? < 1237217270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It shows up if they are away < 1237217285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My IRC client says shinh hasn't talked for 59 hours < 1237217375 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in my client I have to do /wii for that < 1237217392 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can only get idle time for whois on myself. And if it shows up when they are away, which line does it show up on, the 311 line or the 320 line or some other line? < 1237217412 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What does "/wii" means < 1237217416 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need to ask the remote server if you want idle-time information. /wii is a common alias, "/whois nick nick" usually works too. < 1237217446 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"/wii nick" => "/whois nick nick", which means "ask nick's whois-info from the server nick is on". < 1237217465 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O, thanks I did "whois shinh shinh" and I got the idle time for shinh (214878 seconds) < 1237217476 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a lot of seconds. < 1237217513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you know TeX, right? How do you put a \ in the document? < 1237217516 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yes, the IRC server returns it in seconds I did the calculation it is approx 59.7 hours < 1237217550 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You can do $\backslash$ although it might look non-text-like since it's math-mode-fluff. < 1237217556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1237217563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a \rawcodeystylething{} block thang? < 1237217568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would work < 1237217617 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There seems to be a \textbackslash command, according to some reference. < 1237217617 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thanks for telling me I need to indicate the name twice if I want the 317 line (although I'm not sure why the server shouldn't figure that out automatically?) < 1237217649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zzo38: IRC is weird < 1237217655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably it was done this way for backwards compatibility < 1237217688 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And another place says "\char`\\", which is a piece of raw TeX, should also work. < 1237217699 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: OK. However I can get the 317 line for myself without needing to type my name twice. < 1237217703 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want a large block of verbatim text, there's of course \begin{verbatim} ... \end{verbatim}. < 1237217712 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You get the 317 line for everyone who happens to be on the same server as you. < 1237217716 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least you should. < 1237217757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how to get GCC to generate an integer constant without $ in inline asm < 1237217757 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O. So does it do that to save bandwidth from accessing other servers when it doesn't have to? < 1237217765 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Could be that. < 1237217782 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also a \verb=xyz= command which does xyz verbatim, but maybe \ is too extra-magical even for that. < 1237217797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a superscript/subscript combiner in unicode? < 1237217812 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You can freely use any delimiter instead of = there as long as it's not in the verbatim-string.) < 1237217842 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1237217852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I only want a superscript A and a subscript E. < 1237217888 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1237217893 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1237217895 0 :zzo38!n=zzo38@h24-207-48-53.dlt.dccnet.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1237217897 0 :zzo38!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1237217922 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are super/subscript numbers, and a couple of other characters too. < 1237217945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I've looked. < 1237217968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : zzo38: IRC is weird <-- I know the details about why name twice if you are interested < 1237217986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't exactly what you suggested < 1237218091 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What is there outside of the RFC's "If the parameter is specified, it sends the query to a specific server. It is useful if you want to know how long the user in question has been idle as only local server knows that information, while everything else is globally known" explanation? < 1237218105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://filebin.ca/jrtvbo/first-test.pdf A most delightful X∃LaTₑX (see how hard I worked on that?) output. Bring Hoefler Text (or, wait, is it embedded in the PDF?). < 1237218136 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that is it yes. < 1237218141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Err, it's 16 March. < 1237218142 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not 17. < 1237218150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please ignore that time-travelling document. < 1237218167 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I think it embeds-by-default. < 1237218181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, using a non-server name means asking the server that first nick is on < 1237218183 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I can't be sure, since I don't remember what Hoefler Text should look like. < 1237218186 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so double name... < 1237218191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :double nick* < 1237218213 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I fail to see how that is different from my "nick nick means ask the server nick is on" explanation. < 1237218229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well on freenode it is. Due to freenode's server hiding < 1237218233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: if you screenshot, I'll tell you if it's right :P < 1237218244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you never get idle time with anything but repeating nick < 1237218255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :security by obscurity < 1237218259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1237218294 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: http://www.cis.hut.fi/htkallas/what_foolishness_is_this.png < 1237218310 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LªTₑX! < 1237218317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's hideous, but I suppose that's Linux font rendering thar. < 1237218323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal_: aha < 1237218328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X∃LªTₑX < 1237218331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now we just need uppercase versions < 1237218349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It has the right shapes, so, success. < 1237218368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By the way, that is a copyrighted image and I will sue you. < 1237218525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal_: there should be a combining uppercase :P < 1237218544 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are COMBINING LATIN SMALL LETTER [AEIOUCDHMRTVX]; that's a very random-sounding set. < 1237218600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth is up with http://www.cis.hut.fi/htkallas/what_foolishness_is_this.png < 1237218621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean what's up with it < 1237218626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks fine < 1237218632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it is as you said hideous. < 1237218632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apart from the bad linux font rendering < 1237218639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: try the pdf on your system < 1237218644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will probably look nicer < 1237218644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, pdftex generally renders better than that < 1237218649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It renders fine < 1237218651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on my system. < 1237218654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1237218654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the font, Hoefler Text < 1237218659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It demands good rendering :P < 1237218668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well Apple has patents on the important rendering bits < 1237218669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1237218676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you keep saying. < 1237218684 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I even linked you some weeks or so ago < 1237218689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Yes you did. < 1237218715 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's viewed-with-xpdf, in case it matters. < 1237218728 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1237218768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what Helvetica with serifs would look like < 1237218792 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does look rather different with, say, Evince. < 1237218800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, oh? < 1237218844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :14:52 AnMaster wonders what Helvetica with serifs would look like <-- Unlike Helvetica. < 1237218854 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.cis.hut.fi/htkallas/evince_version.png < 1237218860 0 :sebbu2!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :sebbu < 1237218864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh, that's significantly better < 1237218871 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=BeholdMy@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1237218875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in I can actually read it and it looks similar to the rendering at my end < 1237218912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1237218929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what about kpdf? < 1237218954 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have it on this thing. < 1237218960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1237218965 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's acroread, some version. < 1237218968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how comes pdf renders so differently? < 1237218995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought the point of pdf was to render the same < 1237219002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: different font rendering < 1237219010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's how it looks on my end: http://imgur.com/74ZOM.png. It probably won't look very nice unless you have a high-DPI display with the right colour profile. < 1237219043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it looks hideous on this monitor < 1237219077 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks reasonably nice on this. < 1237219108 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where "reasonably nice" means I like it more than Evince, I think. < 1237219179 0 :neldoret1!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :neldoreth < 1237219187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hoefler Text's serifs probably would fit better on print. < 1237219196 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, Firefox went and crashed when I opened gnome-control-center and twiddled with the font rendering settings. < 1237219206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone here know GCC inline assembler? < 1237219215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: gcc's manual does :P < 1237219221 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I've done it a little bit. < 1237219221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well not enough < 1237219227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have read it and not found a solution < 1237219228 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I missed the question. < 1237219229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It documents it all, afaik. < 1237219230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ask #gcc. < 1237219232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : I'm trying to something like this (but with more instructions to make it useful): < 1237219233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asm("leaq %[size]+%[var],%%rdx" : [var] "=m"(myvar) : [size] "i"(sizeof(myvar)) : "rdx"); < 1237219233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where myvar is a static array of fixed size. Size is known at compile time, but may vary depending on compile time options. I would expect it to generate something like: < 1237219233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leaq 2097152+myvar(%rip),%rdx < 1237219233 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in fact it generates this invalid (at least gas thinks so) assembler: < 1237219234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leaq $2097152+myvar(%rip),%rdx < 1237219236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How can I get GCC to not include that first $ there? I have looked at the GCC documentation and found no way to work around it < 1237219244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Using the plain TEX notation $$ . . . $$ for displayed equations is not recom- < 1237219244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mended. Although it is not expressly forbidden in LATEX, it is not documented anywhere in the LATEX book < 1237219247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as being part of the LATEX command set, and it interferes with the proper operation of various features < 1237219250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as the fleqn option. < 1237219252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Huh. < 1237219259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: [size] instead of %[size]? < 1237219283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that doesn't substitute at all. I tried it. < 1237219294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leaq [size]+myvar(%rip),%rdx < 1237219300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then you can't do it. < 1237219307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, maybe, < 1237219311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: < 1237219313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know! < 1237219314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1237219317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1237219319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like < 1237219326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"leaq "#sizeof(foo)"..." < 1237219329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something < 1237219333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was thinking like cpp stringification < 1237219335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and stuff < 1237219337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1237219351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone have a ttf of computer modern < 1237219355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I don't think there is a way to get the size of an object with CPP but hm... < 1237219378 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, you can't get sizeof() during the preprocessing; I was going to suggest stringizing too. < 1237219386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, really? how? < 1237219391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1237219394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"can't" < 1237219400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :misread it as "can" < 1237219414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: do you know the ranges of sizeof()? < 1237219420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, it's either 2 or 4 or 8 < 1237219422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so then < 1237219426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, I dunno < 1237219427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just like < 1237219436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#if sizeof(foo)==1; #define foo "1" or whatever, 'cept, you can't do that in cpp < 1237219437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I dunno < 1237219467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well it depends on compile time options. It could be 2097152 or 4194304 < 1237219477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what options < 1237219483 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have you tried the 'n' constraint instead of 'i'? Although I really don't have a clue how they differ. < 1237219490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have an idea < 1237219493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what option? < 1237219504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-DUSE32 -DUSE64 -DARRAY_SIZE_X -DARRAY_SIZE_Y < 1237219513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Then, just < 1237219523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#ifdef USE_32 < 1237219524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the two latter toggle data type < 1237219527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1237219529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two former < 1237219532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay wait < 1237219533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: < 1237219535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do this, for instance < 1237219536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the two latter toggle array size < 1237219549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#ifdef USE32; #define foo #ARRAY_SIZE_X; #endif < 1237219551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or whatever < 1237219556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1237219559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then just do "blah " foo " baz" < 1237219568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sort of thing anyway < 1237219575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if that needs adding to < 1237219576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do < 1237219579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then just do "blah " foo "+44 baz" < 1237219580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1237219594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :size is sizeof(datatype) * ARRAY_SIZE_X * ARRAY_SIZE_Y < 1237219621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, you'll have to do that in parts then < 1237219623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#ifdef USE32 < 1237219630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define sizeofdatatype "4" < 1237219631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#endif < 1237219632 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1237219636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define foo #ARRAY_SIZE_X < 1237219636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1237219647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sdfk " sizeofdatatype "*" foo < 1237219650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm... < 1237219652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You get the idea < 1237219659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1237219662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers... < 1237219664 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.nopaste.com/p/aVqjYoeUbb <- the source to that LaTeX document; please excuse any noobishness < 1237219679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also excuse the wrapping; TeXShop doesn't seem to do that automagically. < 1237219686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, lack of wrapping, rather. < 1237219762 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Judging from some other latex, you can indeed escape \ with the verbatim mode, so you could write \verb=\chapter= instead of the bulkier \textbackslash{}chapter. < 1237219852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Say, does anyone have a HIGHLY ILLEGAL copy of the Univers font? Well, the copy doesn't have to be highly illegal. < 1237220002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh wth < 1237220007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1237220008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :error: stray ‘#’ in program < 1237220016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION goes read C99 spec < 1237220031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1237220033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1237220036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think you must do < 1237220039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foo(x) #x < 1237220043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1237220046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and foo(ARRAY_SIZE_X) would give "ARRAY_SIZE_X". < 1237220049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So this is perhaps a slight dead end < 1237220053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm hmmm. < 1237220067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: are the X and Y bounded? < 1237220070 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You need the double-macro thing. < 1237220074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh? < 1237220074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm? < 1237220075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do tell < 1237220084 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define foo(x) #x -- #define bar(x) foo(x) -- bar(ARRAY_SIZE) < 1237220085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :double macro? < 1237220091 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That will evaluate ARRAY_SIZE before stringizing it. < 1237220092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Aha. < 1237220095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, AnMaster, do that. < 1237220096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1237220097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1237220102 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very tricky, and I always get it wrong. < 1237220103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love^Whate cpp :-) < 1237220111 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But the comp.lang.c faq has some examples, anyway. < 1237220113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1237220137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, on the topic of I'm Talking About How OS X Is Awesome To Annoy AnMaster (just kidding, AnMaster, kay?): I like how Ctrl-A and Ctrl-E from emacs are available in every text input field. < 1237220166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define CPP_SILLY_STRINGIFY(x) # x < 1237220166 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define CPP_SILLY_EVAL(x) CPP_SILLY_STRINGIFY(x) < 1237220169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that? < 1237220175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep. < 1237220180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although, well, I'd call it < 1237220197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define CPP_STRINGIFY_ARGH(x) #x < 1237220204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define CPP_STRINGIFY(x) CPP_STRINGIFY_ARGH(x) < 1237220213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To more accurately convey the correct emotion. < 1237220242 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes people use the same name with a trailing _, but something like that anyway. < 1237220248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ok < 1237220252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1237220255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That is evil. < 1237220262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does not convey feminine emotion of human vitality. < 1237220264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something. < 1237220271 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"011000 100110 000101 110011 011001 010010 000000 110010" < 1237220280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Anyway, this even more simplificates it: < 1237220297 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://c-faq.com/ansi/stringize.html < 1237220301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#if USE32 < 1237220307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define CPP_SIZE 4 < 1237220311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#elsif USE64 < 1237220313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#define CPP_SIZE 8 < 1237220314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#endif < 1237220315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then < 1237220333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CPP_STRINGIFY(CPP_SIZE) "*" CPP_STRINGIFY(X) "+" CPP_STRINGIFY(Y) < 1237220334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1237220338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no need for extra definitions, I mean. < 1237220339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1237220339 0 :FireyFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1237220345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just CPP_STRINGIFY* and CPP_SIZE (as an int). < 1237220365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that would make it pass 80 columns, which look silly < 1237220373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So wrap it. < 1237220380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CPP_STRINGIFY(CPP_SIZE) "*" < 1237220383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : CPP_STRINGIFY(X) "+" < 1237220384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1237220396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, looks silly to have multiline inline asm expand to single line asm -_- < 1237220402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. It really doesn't. < 1237220407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These are the only times you use those stringifications, so assigning them a name is ridiculous. < 1237220499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1237220769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://thanksants.com/ <- <3 < 1237220867 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1237221733 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-8-196.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1237222048 0 :FireyFly!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :FireFly < 1237222402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, uh what? < 1237222410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Look Around You reference < 1237222423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1237222425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enable javascript < 1237222444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I did enable javascript < 1237222447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I still don't get it < 1237222449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1237222453 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's a Look Around You reference. < 1237222462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googles < 1237222477 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get some gary gum < 1237222492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's garry < 1237222508 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hate you :( < 1237222801 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1237222871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1237222879 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ehird < 1237222896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i have my note credits now? :P < 1237222912 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: wrong channel, and let me read email first to figure out what you're talking about < 1237222913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hello ais523. < 1237222916 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi AnMaster < 1237222928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1) there is no right channel that I am currently present in; I was just passing on a one-line note < 1237222933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2) your cron job fired < 1237222938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although murphy beat you to it < 1237222965 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, goethe was in _another_ scam secrecy contract with another group of players, plotting the same scam. < 1237222967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as I can tell < 1237222976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if you entered an agreement with him, he tricked you. < 1237222980 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't < 1237222985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1237222988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i read wrong then < 1237222992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but again, wrong channel, your refusal to join the right channel does not make this the right channel < 1237223007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nobody else is talking, so. < 1237223013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was just a little note < 1237223211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why the hell gcc generated this code: < 1237223213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sub $0xffffffffffffff80,%rax < 1237223224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is wrong with adding a bit instead? < 1237223235 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :less omg optimized < 1237223236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :claerl < 1237223237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y < 1237223246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: did the stringification work out? < 1237223250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes it did < 1237223255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hoorah < 1237223466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, any idea about that sub? < 1237223479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was in a loop gcc generated: < 1237223484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sub $0xffffffffffffff80,%rax < 1237223485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cmp $0xa42620,%rax < 1237223489 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it might change the processor flags differently < 1237223489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jne 0x41c1f0 < 1237223491 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to addition < 1237223497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm... < 1237223500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are lots of that sort of thing in asm < 1237223519 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or it may be subtracting %rax /from/ that large number, rather than subtracting the large number from %rax < 1237223536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, rax is a pointer to an array < 1237223558 0 :Hiato!n=1@dsl-245-1-23.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1237223560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it only uses sub if it is unrolling the loop. It uses add otherwise < 1237223573 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like: add $0x10,%rax < 1237223592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes the sub jump is larger, but that is because it was unrolled < 1237223780 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@92.254.128.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1237224408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does some more logics in haskell typeth system < 1237224413 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, I forgot, I'm a ghost < 1237224416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehirdghost < 1237224418 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whooooooo < 1237224434 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ahah, now I recommandeth my speakings of the ghostular enhanced communicatoungh. < 1237224550 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you were supposed to wait until Easter to resurrect :( < 1237224572 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, yeah, sorry, wait, I'll remove that previous shit from the timestream < 1237224579 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :done, if you still see it you're hallucinamating < 1237225007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, did you finish your bef93 in qbasic? < 1237225032 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it was too trivial that I fell asleep < 1237225044 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was before I died... < 1237225048 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good times, good times < 1237225080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, why not write a befunge93 in SQL (probably with some procedural extensions) < 1237225094 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ask you s/not // < 1237225110 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is ehirdghost writing befunge in SQL? < 1237225117 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1237225121 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, which extensions? SQL isn't actually Turing-complete without extensions < 1237225123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, no it was a suggestion for something to do < 1237225124 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster wants me to, I don't see why it's interesting. < 1237225126 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, neither is befunge-93 < 1237225141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I would suggest Pg/SQL < 1237225155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or whatever it is called) < 1237225182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, no I didn't "want you to", just a suggestion for something to do < 1237225185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you seemed bored. < 1237225201 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dodecahedron < 1237225206 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dodecahedronasaurus < 1237225214 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PL/pgSQL, if you mean the PostgreSQL thing. < 1237225222 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah yes indeed < 1237225226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't remember the name < 1237225229 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or just PL/SQL for the Oracle thing. < 1237225314 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Google Image Search doesn't find any dodecahedronasaurii. :/ < 1237225337 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Try "dodecadicks" < 1237225361 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/search?q=dodecadicks&ie=utf-8&oe=utf-8&aq=t&rls=org.mozilla:fr:official&client=firefox-a < 1237225368 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you know, it actually exists! < 1237225378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1237225392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many bits is needed to represent a 2 MB address space? < 1237225398 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :31 < 1237225403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, MB? < 1237225404 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21 < 1237225408 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1237225463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sure it isn't 20? < 1237225466 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since 2^10 is a kilobyte, 2^20 is a megabyte and 2^30 is a gigabyte. < 1237225472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1237225473 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://filebin.ca/jrtvbo/first-test.pdf <- Relinking this since everyone must see it. < 1237225474 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 1 MiB is 20 < 1237225477 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because 1 KiB is 10 < 1237225477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1237225482 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 MiB is therefore 21 < 1237225488 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 2 MB is slightly smaller, therefore still 21 < 1237225488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders what he is miscalculating then < 1237225522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, I see that I made an error, but why is it only off by half... < 1237225523 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost: but you never linked it before... we were just hallucinamating that, right? < 1237225540 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also there's the whole A20 line stuff in the legacy-x86 world. < 1237225540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't calculated in 16 bit numbers... < 1237225543 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal_: Do not question me. < 1237225543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :calculate* < 1237225563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lets see. How many bits do you need to represent 1024*512 ? < 1237225584 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10+9. < 1237225611 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you mean "represent all numbers in the range [0, 1024*512-1]". < 1237225654 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or "represent 1024*512 different entities", more generically. < 1237225675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well the latter < 1237225712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I'm trying to work out how I would do bit interleaving for using a z-order space filling curve to index the static funge space < 1237225721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I just can't get it straight < 1237225792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw since you know gcc quite well. How do you make gcc expand asm("leaq %[size]+%[var],%%rdx" : [var] "=m"(myvar) : [size] "i"(sizeof(myvar)) : "rdx"); to "leaq 2097152+myvar(%rip),%rdx" rather than "leaq $2097152+myvar(%rip),%rdx" < 1237225801 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: wtf < 1237225803 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we just told you how < 1237225806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for now I worked around the issue with some ugly macros < 1237225807 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we spent ages explaining it with cpp < 1237225816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, yes but I was wondering "is there no better solution" < 1237225821 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a bad solution < 1237225826 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just stringifying some expressions < 1237225829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, it is an ugly one < 1237225833 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C is ugly < 1237225837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1237225978 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, it's funny how well suited haskell is to logic in the type system < 1237226025 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here's a funny bit of x86 trivia: the A20 gate (which controls whether the A20 line is enabled or not; if it's not enabled, the 21th bit in memory addresses is forced to be 0, wrapping the [1MB,2MB) range on top of [0,1MB) and same for 3-4, 5-6 etc.) used to be connected to the *keyboard controller*. < 1237226074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh... < 1237226088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, keyboard DMA? < 1237226131 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that their keyboard controller had a spare I/O pin they could use. The keyboard controller can also reset the CPU. < 1237226400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1237226419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I need to bit interleave a 9 bit and a 10 bit integers in the fastest way possible... < 1237226428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks at the bithacks page fizzie linked < 1237226478 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[0,1) should be valid haskell pintax < 1237226482 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1237226499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, pintax? < 1237226520 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Syntax but with safety pins and income tax. < 1237226535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1237226550 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost: still a ghost? < 1237226553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I always thought the [) notation looks silly < 1237226556 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION walks right through Judofyr < 1237226560 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any questions? < 1237226596 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The correct range semantics for (N..M) is including N and excluding M, anyway. See: Djikstra. They compose better. < 1237226613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, yes I know what it is for < 1237226613 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And (0..N) gets you N items; fits in with array-type stuff < 1237226630 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So [X,Y) is actually useless as there's only One True Solution :P < 1237226647 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unfortunately, haskell includes M. < 1237226649 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the range < 1237226649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just thinks it looks silly with [X,Y) Typographically silly I mean < 1237226655 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mm. < 1237226671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/thinks/think/ < 1237226683 0 :Deewiant!n=deewiant@tavi.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1237226799 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1237226916 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sq, Q prqpqsq thqt qll vqwqls qrq rqplqcqd by "q". (So, I propose that all vowels are replaced by q.) < 1237226933 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It actually works fine for everything but i, pretty much. So let's try it.) < 1237227107 0 :ineiros!n=ineiros@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1237227172 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nq? < 1237227186 0 :Mony!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-93-123.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1237227213 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plop < 1237227217 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi Mony < 1237227223 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yqq mqqn plqp. < 1237227245 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, true < 1237227269 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qxqctly. < 1237227369 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qqs523: Wqll yqq jqqn my pqlgrqmqgq frqm vqwqls? < 1237227415 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1237227420 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1237227489 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tqlkqng wqthqqt vqwqls qs sq pqssq́. < 1237227506 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sq's yqqr fqcq. < 1237227917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow you can do fast bit interleaving with SSSE3. But not with SSE3 < 1237227922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so useless to me < 1237227933 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, you mean the intercal operation? < 1237227953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, almost. I'm talking about a space filling Morton curve here. < 1237227957 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1237227965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, which can be done with bit interleaving < 1237227969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes kind of < 1237228088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hm a hillbert curve would provide better locality of reference than. Wonder how you can calculate it. < 1237228092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might be worth comparing < 1237228112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: err... you're using space-filling curves for the memory of your Befunge interp to avoid cache misses? < 1237228116 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1237228120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that is the plan yes < 1237228123 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you /sure/ that doesn't waste more time calculating than it does reading from cache? < 1237228131 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and it's pretty much exactly the intercal mingle. < 1237228135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is possible. That is why I want to profile < 1237228157 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't be sure if I haven't looked at it at all < 1237228188 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I jump over a bridge, will I die? I can't be sure if I haven't tried it at all < 1237228190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so I can't say I'm sure until I even tested with space filling curves. < 1237228196 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I'm repeating myself a bit here, but: < 1237228196 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[2009-03-15 19:59:38] < fizzie> Notably, calculating the z-order coordinate from x, y is just a single application of the INTERCAL mingle operator. < 1237228198 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[2009-03-15 19:59:54] < fizzie> Of course your silly C might lack the always-useful $ operator. < 1237228331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway it is quite possible this could differ a lot between different CPUs, if you have a very small cache you could possibly gain from it. < 1237228340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the reverse < 1237228347 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1237228348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway it is worth trying < 1237228365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and my sempron has a 128 kb L2 cache, and no L3 cache < 1237228382 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :128kb? o_O < 1237228390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehirdghost, yes it is very small. < 1237228412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have a Pentium 3 with twice as big L2 cache < 1237228414 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why dqn't yqq mqcrq-qptqmqsq qn q dqcqnt mqchqnq?! < 1237228429 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1237228441 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION rqllqyqs. < 1237228452 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal_: Yqq trqnslqtq, mmkqy? < 1237228454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tell me when you decide to make sense. < 1237228487 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why don't you micro-optimise on a decent machine‽ < 1237228490 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, are you doing "thqs q thqng" manually or automagically? < 1237228495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I don't have one? < 1237228504 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal_: Thqnks. < 1237228525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe ehirdghost will provide the money? < 1237228527 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean Qsztql_, or are nicknames excluded? < 1237228542 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Mqnqqlly, bqt nqw I'm nqt: tr qqqqq qqqqq < 1237228557 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal_: /nqck Qsztql_ qnd jqqn qqr qrdqr. < 1237228564 0 :ehirdghost!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :qhqrdghqst < 1237228576 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1237228592 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The-artist-formerly-known-as-ehirdghost: your new name looks like a MMX opcode. < 1237228596 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, tr qqqq q wqrks tqq. Nqcq. < 1237228600 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Qt qs. < 1237228604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, :DDD < 1237228612 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sq qnywqy. < 1237228669 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wandar haw at gaas wath a anstaad af q. I wender hew et gees weth e ensteed ef q. I wondor how ot goos woth o onstood of q. < 1237228677 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, my favourite MMX opcode is CVTTPD2PI < 1237228693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait that one is SSE I think < 1237228696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway I like it < 1237228716 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wndr hw t gs wth nstd f q. < 1237228718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is SSE but operates on mmx registers, instead of xmm registers < 1237228779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst, why not replace non-vowels instead of vowels? < 1237228789 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qn Q-spqqk, CQBQL = CQBQL. Cqqncqdqncq? < 1237228798 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1237228802 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QnMqstqr: Tq mqrq qccqrqtqly glqqk mqqnqng frqm cqntqxt. < 1237228820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest all consonants -> i < 1237228832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea if it will work out well < 1237228868 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ieiiiii, ieiiiii oie iio iiiee < 1237228874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah not very well < 1237228880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds ghostly though < 1237228887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CQBQL = CQBQL <-- was that COBOL = C.B.L? < 1237228916 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read it as COBOL = CABAL < 1237228920 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cqmmqn Qrqqntqd Bqsqnqss Lqngqqgq = Thqrq Qs Nq Cqbql < 1237228925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal, oh that could work < 1237228930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1237228937 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qsztql gqts q cqqkqq. < 1237228939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CYBYL looked silly < 1237228952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qsztql <-- looks like a monster in nethack? < 1237228960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some A iirc < 1237228964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot the name for it < 1237228970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that anyway < 1237228981 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hqy, fqrst pqrsqn thqt mqkqs q scrqpt thqt grqps /qsr/shqrq/dqct/wqrds tq qdd thq vqwqls bqck qn gqts q cqqkqq. < 1237229007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cqqkqq? < 1237229023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I'm too lazy to make such a script < 1237229039 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why nqt grqp /qsr/shqrq/dqct/wqrds tq fqnd qqt whqt thqt wqrd cqqld bq? Jqst s/q/./ wqqld wqrk fqr qnq wqrd. < 1237229064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well true. But I think it was cookie now < 1237229089 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yqq gqt q cqqkqq. < 1237229120 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm not quite sure what "Qsztql" could refer to. Quetzalcoatl is the lawful archeologist god, though. < 1237229159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you tend to run into them when you are high level and near the top of the dungeon... Maybe it was Quetzalcoatl < 1237229174 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's a god, not a monster. < 1237229194 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's an A called couatl, maybe that. < 1237229226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, in ASCII it is A, in QT mode it is some brown/pink blurry tile that looks vaguely like a brown snake with pink wings < 1237229230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1237229265 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quetzalcoatl is the feathered snake. And couatl is a D&D monster that refers to that, and has the A symbol. So it's probably that. < 1237229284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what about "couatl" a[4]: Monster: 'A' angelic beings: couatl, Aleax, Angel, ki-rin, Archon < 1237229297 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"There's an A called couatl, maybe that." < 1237229300 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting, changing vowels to q's isn't really even noticeable for short words, but i have no idea what ieiiiii, ieiiiii oie iio iiiee is < 1237229302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh yes just saw that < 1237229303 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That *is* what I'm talking about. < 1237229318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I did /msg #esoteric from in the privmsg with Rodney < 1237229321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I didn't see that < 1237229364 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. My scrqpt fqqls qn yqq gqt q cqqkqq, fqr thqrq qrq mqny pqssqbqlqtqqs. < 1237229383 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. And incidentally, why does irssi prefix a + or - to all incoming messages now that I have an irssi-proxy thing going on? < 1237229391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, still I think CVTTPD2PI is the MMX/SSE instruction with the nicest name < 1237229395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't you agree? < 1237229402 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Ah, right. < 1237229403 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it miau? < 1237229407 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst: well why not use a markov chain, don't you just love those? < 1237229415 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: http://miau.sourceforge.net/faq.html < 1237229416 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: :D < 1237229442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, freenode adds +/- if you request it when you connect < 1237229448 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and miau does. < 1237229450 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus, see http://miau.sourceforge.net/faq.html. < 1237229452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means identified to nickserv or not < 1237229453 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't seen anything else do i < 1237229454 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1237229470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst, xchat enables it if available and uses it < 1237229486 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. Heh, yes, I did connect with xchat to the irssi-proxy. < 1237229492 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it a toggleable setting somewhere? < 1237229514 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the proxy < 1237229519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes, by reconnecting. You could also make the proxy filter this so the client never sees that the server supports it < 1237229525 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made another Enigma level, by the way, just for fun; it's pretty easy < 1237229529 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oo < 1237229530 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and again not the sort AnMaster likes < 1237229532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what type? < 1237229534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1237229537 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's a memory level, mostly < 1237229541 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a bit of forward planning < 1237229547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so what is your opinion on CVTTPD2PI? < 1237229560 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I generally don't have opinions on particular asm opcodes I don't know much about < 1237229568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the name I mean! < 1237229574 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: irssi-proxy's a module of sorts for irssi which makes it act a bit like a bouncer. I wanted to try a non-monospaced font in IRC, but that's not very viable in a terminal. < 1237229579 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks typical for bloated x86 asm opcodes < 1237229581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Convert Packed Single-Precision Floating-Point to Packed Doubleword Integers, Truncated" < 1237229584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what it means < 1237229599 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to the AMD reference docs < 1237229605 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ah. < 1237229610 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not just use miau if you want a bouncer? :P < 1237229626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CVTTPS2PI mmx, xmm/mem64 < 1237229633 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I already had irssi running, and didn't want to disconnect for this experiment. < 1237229654 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds like a very exciting experiment. < 1237229656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://filebin.ca/ufepe/ais52304_1.xml < 1237229658 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Welcome to 2000 :P < 1237229673 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I like it here in 2000. < 1237229696 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wimp < 1237229725 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: enigma time < 1237229736 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Anyway, did you say I can tell this X-Chat to not enable that identify-msg thing? I'm not sure I want to do any filtering in irssi-proxy. < 1237229767 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, no < 1237229777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggested you would filter this in the bouncer < 1237229786 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so xchat would never see that it was enabled < 1237229793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also filter any requests to enable it < 1237229794 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :About instructions, I think I like the name of PUNPCKHBW. It's got, you know, punch. < 1237229817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unpack and Interleave High Bytes... < 1237229820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1237229841 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://khjeron.de/index.php?ELEMENT=300 wat < 1237229843 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Aw. I'm not quite sure how to do it. Irssi-proxy is not a very configurable bouncer, it's rather rudimentary. < 1237229847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PUNPCKHQDQ just sounds lame < 1237229871 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: just greenify < 1237229874 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, xchat sux :| < 1237229881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, xchat is not a very configurable client, it is rather advanced but single minded. That is if you don't like the defaults you don't have a lot of options to change it < 1237229890 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst: how are you getting on with my level? < 1237229895 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Awfully. < 1237229906 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm wondering if I should make it harder, probably not if you're finding it hard < 1237229910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst, that should be Qwfqllq < 1237229921 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it seems that way. But this xchat is several magnitudes better than I remember it being back in, you know, 2000 or so. < 1237229926 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I suck at enigma. < 1237229930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm almost convinced oklofok would do it first time and think "that was boring", but then he's oklofok < 1237229945 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my back hurts, can't really concentrate < 1237229950 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I will comply if and only if fizzie and you and ais523 start filtering all messages through (tr aeiou q | tr AEIOU Q). < 1237229951 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deal? < 1237229961 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just for a bit. :P < 1237229964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comply with what? < 1237229976 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually been working on this puzzle for ages now, even though i solved it pretty fast last night (my points weren't registered so i had to do it again) < 1237229978 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := continue qing. < 1237229979 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure what would be a nice graphical IRC client. Colloquy sure seems nice-looking, but it's just OS X. < 1237229988 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: which puzzle? < 1237229989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst, nah, you are free to stop it < 1237229997 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3d logic 2: stronghold of sage < 1237229997 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: colloquy is pretty awful; LimeChat is nice. < 1237230008 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Colloquy is buggy and crashy and underfeatured < 1237230027 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, err, graphical IRC, hm. < 1237230029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, there is an xchat fork called conspire. Haven't tried it. May be worth checking it out < 1237230030 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno. < 1237230056 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have a grid on three faces of a cube, and you need to connect dots of same color. < 1237230067 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going strictly based on screenshots-shown-on-the-software's-web-site here. LimeChat seems like an OS X thing too. Of course one would assume that anything nice-looking is. < 1237230087 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LimeChat is OS X only, yes. < 1237230101 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :started playing kongregate since all the cool kids seem to be doing it < 1237230114 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Just use plan9. < 1237230119 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Problem solved. < 1237230219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use plan9 userspace on Linux btw < 1237230226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ported tools < 1237230228 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1237230230 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the same < 1237230236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's true < 1237230238 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't get any of the device magic that actually makes it worthwhile < 1237230239 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or /proc < 1237230248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst, but not everyone can switch to plan9 < 1237230252 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure they can. :P < 1237230268 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: I played the original version of that game < 1237230276 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well iirc fizzie worked on some workstation owned by the university < 1237230278 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that could be hard < 1237230287 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst: I just got a time of 1:53 on that level, btw, that's faster than the record written in the file < 1237230292 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: cool < 1237230304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst, also I don't remember how the /proc of plan9 was but Linux have a /proc. Maybe different. < 1237230315 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1237230318 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plan9's is far more extensiv e < 1237230320 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, I'm currently at home; I think I'll stick to rxvt-unicode and irssi for chatting at work. < 1237230322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway: http://swtch.com/plan9port/ < 1237230340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OS X too < 1237230346 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst: harder, easier, or you didn't pass it? < 1237230354 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I already have it. < 1237230359 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1237230360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst, ok :) < 1237230361 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: dunnos < 1237230364 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it had no stupid grass shit < 1237230366 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how could you know whether it's harder or easier < 1237230367 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1237230377 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(that was a question, answer) < 1237230380 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is kongregate? < 1237230386 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can guess it's a KDE program from the spelling < 1237230388 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a site with flash games < 1237230391 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but don't konw anything beyond that < 1237230391 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically you get points out of playing flash games. < 1237230395 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. < 1237230433 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if Three Times Through is always possible < 1237230436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, this one ends in 04? I saw 01 too. What about 02 and 03 < 1237230437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect it is, but haven't proved it < 1237230439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never saw them < 1237230444 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, no < 1237230447 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they aren't finished yet < 1237230448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1237230453 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you having a go at it? < 1237230454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, any in the style I like? < 1237230459 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not yet < 1237230462 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more incentive to actually finish games, and try all kinds of stuff out; which of course is good only if you consider flash games educational, which i do < 1237230479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I don't know if I mentioned it. But I rather like that level "robin's wood" < 1237230481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_02 and _03 are almost finished, they just need AIs < 1237230483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot what pack < 1237230490 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't, it just looks big and tiresome < 1237230498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1237230531 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: http://www.kongregate.com/games/AlexMatveev/3d-logic < 1237230532 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3d logic wun < 1237230604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is there anything in your last level preventing the first two stones matching each other? < 1237230614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, it's completely random the arrangement < 1237230618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :normally you get a mix of luck < 1237230625 0 :Hiato1!n=1@dsl-245-1-23.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1237230627 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because there are so many oxyds to place < 1237230728 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh that level is irritating < 1237230732 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: i can't beat original level 7 <.< < 1237230816 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait I just did. < 1237230867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I liked "floppy floors" too < 1237230877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on easy, never tried it on hard < 1237230893 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what, my level? < 1237230894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however it was another level I was looking for < 1237230898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ? < 1237230900 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i did the first 12 levels in about 2 minutes, then made a mistake, and closed it < 1237230916 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in engima 1.0 new < 1237230921 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i mean i don't actually want to play atm) < 1237230932 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh, I was referring to the one I just pasted < 1237230950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nothing's forcing oklofok to play, especially as the level I just pasted is likely far too easy for em < 1237230953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just mentioned some levels I liked < 1237230971 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are you trying to force me to try it :P < 1237230977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, there wouldn't be any point < 1237230980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there was some level that was a "who did it" iirc < 1237230984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was rather interesting < 1237231002 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I've done that one, it isn't really because it's just elimination and luck < 1237231017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cluenigma < 1237231019 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1237231045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there was one with lots of hidden tools. Split up in four screens < 1237231052 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was doing that one recently < 1237231058 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, don't remember name < 1237231064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember first room was very white < 1237231065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I tried twice and failed < 1237231071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like that one < 1237231077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just don't remember where or name < 1237231089 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both times because coffee wasn't implemented, so getting the last pair of oxyds depends entirely on luck and fast mouse movement, you need both < 1237231096 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I was unlucky and not fast enough anyway both times < 1237231105 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, i should probably implement some coffee < 1237231120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed < 1237231132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, do you remember what level pack? < 1237231159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks < 1237231166 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it won't be one of the enigma ones because it had coffee in < 1237231182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also there are some levels in "enigma 0.92" called "Pentimino", any clue what they are about? < 1237231188 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1237231191 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of coffee are we talking < 1237231191 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1237231194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're about pentominos, pretty obviously < 1237231197 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst: the item in Enigma < 1237231203 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that does nothing because they haven't programmed it yet < 1237231204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and what the *** is that? < 1237231217 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: look it up on Wikipedia or Google or somewhere < 1237231223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1237231229 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tetris shapes are tetrominoes, pentominoes are like that but with one more square < 1237231232 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's it meant to do. < 1237231239 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:20 AnMaster: ais523, and what the *** is that? <-- what the ass? < 1237231242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :found it. "tool time" in 0.92 new < 1237231255 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst: it's described vaguely as "pause the game" < 1237231258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst, "hel" < 1237231259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the docs < 1237231276 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but from looking at the levels that use it, I suspect it multiplies durations by infinity < 1237231281 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so your umbrellas last forever, etc < 1237231293 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's limited-duration itself, or only when it's the first item on your list, or something, though < 1237231321 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's actually "heel" < 1237231328 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, Slalom Skiing in 0.92-1 is hard (#17) < 1237231328 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1237231378 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1237231434 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst: yep, that one took me quite a while < 1237231438 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a trick to it, though < 1237231463 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even better, it's a trick you can work out entirely on visible information, it's not like there's a hidden thing you have to find or something like that < 1237231489 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : In Oxyd®, you could take a break with this item. During the break, you could analyse the whole level stresslessly. In Enigma, the cup does not have any special properties yet. < 1237231493 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the definition of the coffee < 1237231514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I managed the slalom one < 1237231537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on both easy and hard < 1237231550 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did it on hard, and doing it on easy can be done the same way as doing it on hard < 1237231553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :below par for easy < 1237231565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2 seconds above par for hard < 1237231593 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#58 light barriers, how do you get that block?! < 1237231607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I solved it, above par < 1237231624 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: did you do salom, above par, on hard, you solved it? < 1237231626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst, also the mirrors duh < 1237231632 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst: 58 in which pack? < 1237231635 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, did you solve slalmon, on hard, above par? < 1237231638 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 0.92-1 < 1237231645 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1237231647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst, I solved it on both, on easy below par, on hard above par < 1237231648 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can move the lasers < 1237231651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as I said < 1237231658 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I do not like them, Sam I am < 1237231666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst, what? < 1237231671 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU HAVE NO CULTURE> < 1237231682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst, what the hell are you referring to < 1237231685 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>__________< < 1237231705 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a Dr. Seuss book < 1237231711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're books of nonsense intended for children < 1237231711 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Your culture is not universal, you know. Although I've heard enough by cultural osmosis to understand that much. < 1237231717 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and are great fun to read out loud < 1237231719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googles < 1237231725 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say Green Eggs and Ham is fairly universal < 1237231734 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've heard that thing, don't know what it's about tho < 1237231736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did google "sam" but that returned Seattle Art Museum < 1237231737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and such < 1237231738 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sam i am thing < 1237231741 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything in English is universal < 1237231745 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: google "green eggs and ham" < 1237231746 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: :P < 1237231748 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the quotes < 1237231749 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i think it was just the name of an episode of some series < 1237231750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ...? < 1237231753 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, we watched some sort of green-eggs-and-ham cartoonification just the-day-before-yesterday. < 1237231760 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I do not like green eggs and ham. I do not like them, Sam-I-Am." < 1237231780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about "automaton magic" < 1237231788 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1237231789 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about it. < 1237231794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :solved it below par here. and just two seconds above world record < 1237231811 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 29 seconds instead of 27 < 1237231820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like that level < 1237231825 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RdR0LXOiEB8 I think was the clip. < 1237231831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :engima 0.92-1 #83 < 1237232019 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A dark house on them am do I or there and eat if rain they anywhere eggs in Sam train are fox let asy tree be goat like see try boat good may so will box green me thank with car ham mouse that would could here not the you. < 1237232025 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/asy/say/ < 1237232028 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The most zen sentence ever. < 1237232070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst, did you make that up now? < 1237232081 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it's the complete set of words used in Green Eggs and Ham. < 1237232086 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Green_Eggs_and_Ham#Lexicon < 1237232097 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All 50 of them, of which 49 are monosyllabic. < 1237232111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1237232199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. < 1237232221 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst, I don't think they are intended to be written together like that < 1237232230 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh really? < 1237232230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1237232248 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eggs in Sam train or fox... I think Dr Seuss is warning us from the grave < 1237232249 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*are < 1237232254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst, no, it is "for beginning readers" after all < 1237232257 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The eggs in any train owned by Sam are inevitably foxes! < 1237232259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :50 words in one sentence? < 1237232264 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh true. < 1237232285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst, even an experienced reader have trouble keeping the context in such a long sentence < 1237232303 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone make a huge sentence that ends with 10 proposition :-P < 1237232304 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1237232322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst, and someone made a sentence out of a single word: buffalo < 1237232324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your point? < 1237232327 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "I do not like green eggs and ham. I do not like them, Sam-I-Am." <<< wait green eggs? :D something started gnawing me about that sentence, but i could not quite put my finger on it until now < 1237232333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh make not made < 1237232334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :misread < 1237232337 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo buffalo with. < 1237232347 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ofc green eggs might actually mean something other than rotten eggs, i just don't know what) < 1237232361 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the book, they're just like ordinary eggs, except they're green < 1237232373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, odd bird? spilled paint? < 1237232382 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the cartoon, the ham is also green, IIRC. < 1237232434 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph, i've been trying to leave irc for like 20 minutes now, now seriously < 1237232435 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-> < 1237232561 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server" < 1237232634 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmmm < 1237232723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://swtch.com/plan9port/screenshots/opensolaris.png <-- is that window manager gnome? < 1237232736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought Solaris had some custom one < 1237232743 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not nowadays. < 1237232760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1237232769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst, I still think OpenWindows was a nice one ;P < 1237232777 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's certainly possible to theme Gnome to look like that < 1237232784 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, that is gnome < 1237232785 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you could do that with other window managers too < 1237232786 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very obviously < 1237232792 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see: window decoration, the style of taskbar buttons < 1237232794 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the show desktop button < 1237232798 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the desktop selector < 1237232800 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the icons next to it < 1237232805 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the icons on the desktop & their shadow < 1237232809 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the text rendering < 1237232811 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I don't use default Gnome icons anyway < 1237232812 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the terminal's menu bar and icon < 1237232823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're right, the taskbar buttons look like unthemed Gnome < 1237232835 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's themed, just the default theme :P < 1237232904 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Solaris' CDE wasn't what I'd call nice. Glrbh. < 1237232920 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the default theme is bluer than that < 1237232940 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1237232942 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it? < 1237232944 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's not < 1237232950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well of course you can theme it, But the icons looked gnome style. So did the applets. < 1237232954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just wasn't sure < 1237232963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since I remembered solaris using something else < 1237232969 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's debian's default theme at least < 1237232982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I haven't used gnome for years < 1237232997 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2005-July/msg00269.html I think I understand why gnome is shit now < 1237233033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst, the linked images are 404 < 1237233043 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. Because it is from 2005 and linkrot. < 1237233049 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Congratulations for noticing. < 1237233070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst, did it get accepted? < 1237233075 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1237233080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that patch < 1237233082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or change < 1237233083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatecer < 1237233085 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever* < 1237233087 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/facepalm < 1237233093 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm dropping this conversation thread < 1237233097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1237233099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I read the mail < 1237233102 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_exit(1); < 1237233103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not the responses yet < 1237233110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so what the hell are you talking about < 1237233120 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :excuse me, what are we talking about? < 1237233125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://mail.gnome.org/archives/desktop-devel-list/2005-July/msg00269.html < 1237233127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about that < 1237233129 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_exit(1); < 1237233132 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems to be a patch to change the theme < 1237233137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the default that is < 1237233138 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what, they're making it-sensor visible in Enigma 1.01? < 1237233149 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they can't do that, or at least they should give an option for invisible sensors < 1237233155 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it-sensor? < 1237233155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ?? < 1237233168 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst: it's an invisible item which makes commands run when you go over it < 1237233178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, also "making" implies engima 1.01 isn't released yet? I'm pretty sure it is < 1237233178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like an invisible trigger, but you can't hear it and it doesn't care about stones < 1237233182 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*1.10 < 1237233185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1237233212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, can you place it below some other tile? < 1237233225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have one floor, one stone, one item, and any number of actors on a square < 1237233231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1237233245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about those levels where you go under something that looks like a floor? < 1237233247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do they work < 1237233256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are hollow stones which look the same as the floor beneath them < 1237233262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1237233267 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they can have an item under them < 1237233274 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a floor under that (you wouldn't want to fall, would you?) < 1237233798 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sq, Qs, qnyqnq? < 1237233813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, mhm < 1237233847 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1237233848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about the things you gets with explosives. and remove with spades < 1237233854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know the name < 1237233858 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hollows are items < 1237233861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1237233875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know, because you can't drop an item on their square, but you can have different sorts of floor under them, and push stones over them < 1237233971 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1237234026 0 :Judofyr_!n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1237234935 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1237235109 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-13-99.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1237235133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh < 1237235149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what are actors? < 1237235170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in engima I mean < 1237235183 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: marbles, tops, etc < 1237235188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1237235191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things that aren't restricted to integer coordinates < 1237235226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I would assume they are, just integer coords == pixels instead of == tiles < 1237235235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do they really use float? < 1237235280 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arbitrary reals < 1237235638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not likely < 1237235639 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's floats < 1237235646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why on earth? < 1237235662 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You were an X-Chatter, right? Do you happen to know how the "Colored nick names" thing picks colors for nicks? < 1237235663 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so their physics simulations work better < 1237235673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1237235700 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it picks the most appropriate color for the personality < 1237235752 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is randomly happy < 1237235767 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Do you feel purple, then? < 1237235809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament's a sort of mauve on my client, the same colour as fizzie < 1237235811 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do like purple prose. < 1237235814 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and FireFly, for that matter < 1237235826 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster's green, and qhqrdghqst's cyan < 1237235841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok is a slightly redder purple than lament < 1237235854 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've succeded in displaying a pic at my DS < 1237235856 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Asztal_'s grey < 1237235857 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just wondering, because this has decided that ais523 and AnMaster have the same color, which is non-optimal as you people so often coincide temporally. < 1237235895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I used to use xchat once upon a time < 1237235898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowdays I use ERC < 1237235905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I never used coloured nicks in xchat < 1237235911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't like that feature < 1237235914 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right, right. < 1237235924 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just hashes the nickname < 1237235929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tend to use three colours: "normal, highlighted, own message" < 1237235966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and I'm more a dark blue person < 1237235970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :than green < 1237235974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though green is ok < 1237235975 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey, I'm a dark blue person too < 1237235977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also cyan < 1237235986 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION transparent, like ninja. < 1237236008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ultramarine is nice < 1237236031 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION octarine < 1237236052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst, doesn't go with transparent I'm afraid < 1237236069 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the text part already has the normal-highlighted-own split, so I don't mind nicks being rather colorful. < 1237236100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I do that for all of the lines, and no nick column rainbow < 1237236132 0 :Hiato1!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1237236175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst, what do you think of the look of plan9 < 1237236188 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's usable but very ... well, 1992s. < 1237236191 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems that color_of(char *name) is just sum of all the bytes in name, modulo amount of colors in the fixed set used for nicknames. < 1237236192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ok < 1237236193 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/s././ < 1237236203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst, you think GTK is worse? < 1237236209 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Absolutely. < 1237236219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst, what about QT? < 1237236228 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: that's so boring I could take a shit on it. < 1237236233 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you get my analogy. < 1237236239 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Qt is acceptable. Sometimes. < 1237236246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst, mhm. Motif? < 1237236260 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Motif I can help it < 1237236266 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For guidance on the above sentence, see oerjan.) < 1237236271 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the particular piece of code divides by sizeof (char), which is a rather silly way of saying 1. < 1237236293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst, well it is a "meta" style pun I think < 1237236301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is it is supposed to sound like something else < 1237236303 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes. < 1237236304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't know what < 1237236307 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pronounce it out aloud < 1237236310 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"motif i can help it" < 1237236325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just did. But I'm not sure how to pronounce motif in English < 1237236327 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's "not if" when your nose is stuffed. < 1237236338 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You spoiled it :P < 1237236340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1237236357 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I'm a spoiler. < 1237236361 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if (! < 1237236368 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sound more like "note if" than "not if" < 1237236380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or am I mispronouncing motif? < 1237236388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst, ? < 1237236398 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yeah. < 1237236400 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a bad pun < 1237236419 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Here's a nice colourerer: abs (foldl xor 255 nick). < 1237236420 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :* IPA: /məʊ'tif/; you do need a bit of imagination there. < 1237236427 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst, so is it a long or a short t in motif? < 1237236431 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1237236433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I can't really read that < 1237236439 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldl xor 255 (map ord nick). < 1237236441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst, err o not t < 1237236470 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :colourNick nick = foldl xor 255 (map ord nick) < 1237236474 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Moo-tif", the interface of choice for cows. < 1237236483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hah < 1237236510 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude Data.Char Data.Bits Test.QuickCheck> colourNick "AnMaster" < 1237236510 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :236 < 1237236511 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prelude Data.Char Data.Bits Test.QuickCheck> colourNick "ais523" < 1237236513 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :176 < 1237236515 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perfect distinguishotron. < 1237236517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, err so what is the difference between "note" and "not" then. It isn't "long/short" o < 1237236531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst: what is the number? selection between 256 possible colours? < 1237236536 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yep < 1237236541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since motif ends up a bit like note if the way I say it < 1237236548 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it may be hard to find 256 different-looking colours < 1237236552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1237236557 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just use the standard palette < 1237236562 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't get too many similar colours < 1237236577 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let colourNick nick = foldl xor 16 (map ord nick) `mod` 16 < 1237236580 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also seems to work acceptably < 1237236647 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "note" is /nəʊt/, "not" is just /nɒt/. So there's an "ou"-style diphthong in "note". < 1237236655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, ah < 1237236657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1237236658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ^ < 1237236675 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: But yes, "motif" is closer to "note if" than "not if". < 1237236688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1237236692 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@e-92.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1237236719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1237236725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just got an idea for the perfect OS < 1237236742 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably quite different from ehird's/my < 1237236749 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is what I was thinking, ais523... < 1237236750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be a combination of Genera, Plan 9 and QNX < 1237236751 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which are somewhat different from each other < 1237236769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you think? < 1237236769 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, first, those are so completely different that you couldn't combine them reasonably < 1237236777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst, yeah probably < 1237236777 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :secondly, QNX isn't very interesting apart from being embedded < 1237236790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst, it is very stable though < 1237236798 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QNX didn't invent stability < 1237236799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about just combining the first two? < 1237236803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst, that is true < 1237236807 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"AnMaster: well, first, those are so completely different that you couldn't combine them reasonably" < 1237236813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst, hm < 1237236817 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Adding random good stuff together isn't a recipe for success. < 1237236823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well true < 1237236844 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QNX does have interesting aspects. The distributedness stuff is fancy. < 1237236864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and having almost everything in userspace < 1237236868 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plan 9 has a distributed CPU system < 1237236870 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is excellent < 1237236877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, IPC and scheduling are in kernel, that's about it < 1237236888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1237236891 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my OS is so microkernel, it even has its userspace in userspace! < 1237236898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, -_- < 1237236927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all your features are belong to userspace < 1237236945 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was also something funny related to the file systemics, but I've forgotten what it was. My only QNX experiments were several years ago. < 1237236954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, same < 1237237001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://plan9.bell-labs.com/plan9/img/mirtchov/interpolate.gif <-- that's pretty < 1237237021 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like every ELER comic ever! < 1237237043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you mean: ELLE comic < 1237237044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :?? < 1237237051 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://geekz.co.uk/lovesraymond/ < 1237237055 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everybody Loves Eric Raymond < 1237237097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And GIMP now supports CMYK" <-- ? Really? *looks* < 1237237365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like a future version will have it < 1237238223 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1237238241 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1237238245 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1237238248 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoopsie. < 1237238285 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am definitely not ready for this third-millennium gooey-IRC thing. < 1237238296 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what? < 1237238342 0 :MigoMipo_!n=MigoMipo@84-217-13-254.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1237238363 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I should make a realtime javascript raytracer. (At this point qhqrdghqst dies of unbelievable stupidity.) < 1237238383 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: did you press Ctrl-W? < 1237238385 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst: it'll take you something like 20 years for the hardware to catch up < 1237238386 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I somehow accidentally closed this tab-or-whatever-it-is, maybe with ^w or something. I've never accidentally typed "/part #esoteric" or something. < 1237238409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :accidental mouse clicks are what most commonly close tabs by mistake for me < 1237238410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ctrl-m in xchat is "move marker of last line read in channel" iirc < 1237238416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it clear window? < 1237238418 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, with TraceMonkey it'll be native-code-speed. < 1237238424 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's "mvoe marker line". < 1237238428 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: err... why are you nickpinging me with that details? < 1237238429 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/mvoe/move/ < 1237238437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what? < 1237238445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: unfortunately native speed isn't fast enough for realtime raytracing either < 1237238458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I must have misread < 1237238460 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, it's been done... < 1237238462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two things < 1237238472 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood < 1237238474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :" fizzie: did you press Ctrl-W?" turned out as " fizzie: did you press Ctrl-M?" < 1237238476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea how < 1237238476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1237238492 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=BeholdMy@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1237238536 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's been things that you could consider real-time ray-tracing, if you want to be polite about it, in demoscene prods a long time. < 1237238572 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On June 12, 2008 Intel demonstrated Enemy Territory: Quake Wars using ray tracing for rendering, running in basic HD (720p) resolution. ETQW operated at 14-29 frames per second. The demonstration ran on a 16-core (4 socket, 4 core) Tigerton system running at 2.93 GHz.[10] < 1237238579 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a 16-core system, me. < 1237238586 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be pleasurable. < 1237238599 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/03/16/1839231 < 1237238602 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst: Just get a couple of microwaves, then you can do another core-counting experiment. < 1237238611 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems that Intel and AMD are rowing over x86 < 1237238623 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they end up revoking each other's licences, all sorts of ridiculous things could happen < 1237238637 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1237238641 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: probably they'll just find a loophole and change a minor bug to make it "not x86" < 1237238644 0 :MigoMipo_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MigoMipo < 1237238662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: http://slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/03/16/1839231 <-- huh < 1237238670 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is that a huh? < 1237238675 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because only ehird links people to things randomly? < 1237238683 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://goatse.ca/ < 1237238690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes < 1237238693 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... which is now squatted < 1237238710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst, what about the cx original? < 1237238723 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: someone else owns it; it has a picture of a LEGO thing that looks like a goatse but it's SWF. < 1237238728 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Safe for work that is. < 1237238729 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not flahs < 1237238731 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*flash < 1237238731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1237238739 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they're trying to sell it < 1237238758 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Buy a piece of Internet history." < 1237238772 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst: what happened to the picture of Bill O'Reilly? < 1237238776 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it ever existed? < 1237238783 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@i-167.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1237238784 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was replaced < 1237239010 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh wow. < 1237239012 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Horrible idea. < 1237239065 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb -> < 1237239065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the horrible idea? < 1237239075 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe he went to implement it immediately. < 1237239249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1237239939 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1237239953 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to have been a really horrible one. < 1237241411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1237241426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qhqrdghqst, btw do you know any good breakout game for OS X that is free? < 1237241610 0 :Judofyr_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1237241872 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server" < 1237242117 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Quit" < 1237242163 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1237242718 0 :qhqrdghqst!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ehird < 1237242833 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@c349BBF51.dhcp.bluecom.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1237242916 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders how to implement motion blur in canvas < 1237242942 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where by "motion blur" I just mean blend in some previous frames < 1237242950 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess you could create invisible canvases < 1237243150 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could just always draw N frames, but that doesn't sound very fast. < 1237243217 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by invisible canvases do you mean translucent canvases? < 1237243267 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have 5 canvases, and draw to each one in turn, changing the Z-order so that the most-recently-drawn-to canvas is at the top < 1237243291 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would work :| < 1237243364 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1237243374 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just crashed firefox < 1237243377 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or hung < 1237243417 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can also use the toDataURL("image/png") or something to get the current frame as an image, then render those. But that would mean one extra PNG creation operation and N-1 extra PNG decoding operations per frame. The "pile of canvasii" approach sounds most sensible. < 1237243458 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was going to do a translucent draw under the assumption that it's probably faster than css < 1237243497 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but since that means copying data and the other approach doesn't < 1237243498 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1237243592 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There seems to be some sort of getImageData functions you maybe could use; it still involves copying, but at least there's no PNG creation stuff. < 1237243599 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the canvas3D canvas context would make this a lot faster :) < 1237243622 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I'm using that < 1237243624 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT < 1237243629 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like I can't putimagedata between canvases < 1237243630 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lame < 1237243657 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH THANK GOD < 1237243663 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SOMEONE is finally havnig hardware-accelerated 3d < 1237243708 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scratch that < 1237243711 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just setting it up wrong < 1237243891 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WELL HELLO THERE < 1237243898 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :firefox is leaking memory like crazy < 1237243914 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not freeing the image datas < 1237243915 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ew < 1237243936 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I'll use the overlay-canvases approach < 1237244014 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does sound simpler, at the very least. < 1237244025 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oi! < 1237244303 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://qoid.us/cv.html <-- don't run in a slow browser < 1237244451 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok.. < 1237244464 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should add friction. < 1237244515 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION adds more balls < 1237244522 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where by "ball" I mean "square" < 1237244537 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add friction! < 1237244541 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and drag! < 1237244631 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder how slow collision detection will be < 1237244632 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably not very < 1237244640 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe slow if I have 100 balls < 1237244657 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you do quad tree searching it should be efficient < 1237244663 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what the fuck is that < 1237244666 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1237244712 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, for your thing it wouldnt be an issue since you're using squares < 1237244740 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, screw collision detection < 1237244742 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead, < 1237244852 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1237244864 0 :neldoreth!n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth JOIN :#esoteric < 1237244869 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xor http://qoid.us/cv.html < 1237245097 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1237245098 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :magic! < 1237245105 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :collision is better. < 1237245161 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too lazy < 1237245166 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because what if they're colliding by multiple pixels < 1237245246 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you better get a time resolution good enough for that to happen :) < 1237245250 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not happen < 1237245469 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: quad trees are one of the data structures that split R^n into hypercubes so you can check whether containing hypercubes intersect before doing the actual collision check. < 1237245474 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(glad i could help) < 1237245518 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: it's not fast enough :p < 1237245522 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err actually quad tree is not one of them. < 1237245526 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I can do physics faster than actually drawing < 1237245530 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but, < 1237245531 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to get canvas 3d to work on beta 3.1 < 1237245535 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but guess it can be used as such < 1237245537 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok! < 1237245542 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me tell you about quantifiers :D < 1237245545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: that's shit < 1237245550 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what < 1237245550 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1237245564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proof: < 1237245568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.blahbleh.com/whyiesucks.htm < 1237245576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 3d cube, with motion blur, in canvas, getting ~50fps < 1237245581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ur doing it wrong, evidently :P < 1237245586 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: um, so? < 1237245589 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw that < 1237245597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, and... motion blur isn't that hard? < 1237245598 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the boxes are going perfectly fast (not measuring fps) < 1237245606 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, can i can i huh huh huh < 1237245610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: lbreakout2 < 1237245612 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe that's drawing the cubes repeatedly for the motion blur < 1237245621 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they do collide by more than one pixel I think < 1237245623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, my delay was me scraping most of the skin off the back of my foot ^_^ < 1237245633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :By mistake, that is. < 1237245644 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :50 FPS *with an encoding run going*. < 1237245663 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION stabs pikhq with rapier < 1237245665 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: you can tell me seven sentences < 1237245676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, awful idea time < 1237245682 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all learnable natural language quantifiers are conservative. < 1237245691 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOWS SEVEN WORDS < 1237245709 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And this on 4 year old hardware. < 1237245722 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: interesting! what does that mean?` < 1237245724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Canvas is still shit :P < 1237245728 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can have another 7 words. < 1237245728 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :orly? < 1237245732 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite fast and a lot better than flash < 1237245735 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*mean? < 1237245741 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Less shit than everything else. < 1237245741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comex: compare that to SDL < 1237245751 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, everything else on the web. < 1237245751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heck you could script SDL with spidermonkey < 1237245754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd be 39487539457345 times faster < 1237245768 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compared to a proper programming environment, well, yeah. Canvas sucks. < 1237245777 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suppose Q is a quantifier, relating two sets, e.g. Q(X,Y) = |X intersect Y| > |X-Y| (== "most X are Y") < 1237245778 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I doubt it < 1237245795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, really. < 1237245798 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then Q is conservative if and only if: Q(X,Y) iff Q(X, X intersect Y) < 1237245810 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really 300 trillion times faster? < 1237245813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no. < 1237245837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now. < 1237245838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Evil time < 1237245869 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hg.mozilla.org/users/vladimir_mozilla.com/canvas3d/ < 1237245873 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how the fuck am I supposed to compile that < 1237245877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with butts < 1237245882 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks up < 1237245889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hg.mozilla.org/users/vladimir_mozilla.com/canvas3d/file/f050229f6011/Makefile.in < 1237245891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Makefile.in; happy? < 1237245899 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not very < 1237245950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, my evil idea is kinda related to this < 1237245960 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1237246030 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :autoreconf&&./configure&&make&&make install? < 1237246207 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: awesome < 1237246260 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its even cooler < 1237246261 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because < 1237246274 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all conservative quantifiers can be built up in very simple was < 1237246276 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ways* < 1237246277 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :namely: < 1237246284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seeing psygnisfive get excited about linguistics amuses me < 1237246341 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any boolean operation over conservative quantifiers gives a conservative quantifier < 1237246382 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and: Q(X intersect C, Y) is conservative, for any set C < 1237246398 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and these two together produce ALL and ONLY the conservative quantifiers < 1237246413 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you start with a single conservative quantifier all(X,Y) < 1237246414 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1237246423 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or some(X,Y). < 1237246486 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1237246501 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is /very/ interesting indeed < 1237246552 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1237246557 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i think i don't actually know what you mean by quantifier when it comes to language < 1237246570 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :words like all, some, most, many, few < 1237246572 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the numbers < 1237246580 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1237246590 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more-than < 1237246612 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Peace and Protection 4.22.2" < 1237246619 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what quantifier would 5 be? < 1237246634 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 cats are small < 1237246641 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm righ < 1237246642 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1237246650 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5(X,Y) = |X intersect Y| = 5 < 1237246656 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :== 5* < 1237246658 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeawh < 1237246660 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*yeah < 1237246665 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well actually < 1237246666 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :technically < 1237246673 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5(X,Y) = |X intersect Y| >= 5 < 1237246682 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :....yeah :) < 1237246723 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how would you construct most out of all? < 1237246800 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue :D < 1237246806 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most is < 1237246818 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most(X,Y) = |X intersect Y| > |X - Y| < 1237246821 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you already defined most < 1237246828 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can try to reword it < 1237246834 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. < 1237246839 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is legal in the transformation? < 1237246852 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boolean combinations of other conservative quantifiers < 1237246857 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just all(all(X),all(all(Y),all(Z))) kinda stuff? :| < 1237246868 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so Q(X) -> !Q(X) < 1237246869 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1237246877 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohh. < 1237246893 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Q(X,Y), R(X,Y) -> Q(X,Y) op R(X,Y) < 1237246898 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for op some boolean operator < 1237246903 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right right. < 1237246908 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Q(X,Y) -> Q(X intersect C, Y) < 1237246912 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for any set C < 1237246961 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all(X,Y) = X subset Y = X - Y == 0 < 1237247010 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeas < 1237247011 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ill look at my references and see if they mention how to construct most from all < 1237247026 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do look, i'm not really in a thinking mood, kind of a math overdose < 1237247102 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my god i want to learn chemistry < 1237247128 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1237247153 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you know molecules and stuff they're very pretty. < 1237247216 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"A semantic characterization of natural language determiners" is one of the papers that discusses this < 1237247241 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well why don't you go look then :-) < 1237247258 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cant get it < 1237247296 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have another article i can give you a copy of < 1237247310 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nooooo exam next monday and i forgot to begin my reading journey today. < 1237247538 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have two articles for you. < 1237247551 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :buttt... i need to start my readings! < 1237247647 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wellnowwhat.net/linguistics/quant1.pdf < 1237247649 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wellnowwhat.net/linguistics/quant2.pdf < 1237247668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Star Trek: Some hydrogen stars go trekking. It's a gas! < 1237247713 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*rimshot* < 1237248106 0 :mib_p3zdz9st!i=4b3ab5d8@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-456480a90db8d03a JOIN :#esoteric < 1237248258 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :«00:00:00»     « Day changed to {Tuesday, March 17th 2009}. It's St. Patrick's day, time to get some booze! < 1237248274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of shitty irc client does that < 1237248278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't answer, I know: a shit one < 1237248316 0 :mib_p3zdz9st!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :esoteric programming? < 1237248333 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, even if it does not always look like it. < 1237248339 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :darn tootin < 1237248439 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ehm... 12th of july: "Beware of Santa Claus!" < 1237248452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut < 1237248501 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One of the day change messages < 1237248702 0 :mib_p3zdz9st!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any engine techs here? < 1237248735 0 :mib_p3zdz9st!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Having an idle issue with my 3.1mpfi < 1237249353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:22 ImInYourMonad: ehird: because i can understand things that are not formal systems? < 1237249359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In response to me asking why he thinks his brain is superturing. < 1237249363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol lol lol < 1237249473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:24 ImInYourMonad: well maybe consciousness is an illusion, but i can build a computer but a computer cant build me unless a human tells it how to < 1237249479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ lol < 1237249735 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd love to know what things are not formal systems that he can understand. lol < 1237249831 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: EMOTIONS & PURE LOVE < 1237249836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :&&&& THE FEELING OF MUSIC < 1237249840 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :&&&& HUMANITY < 1237249844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vomits < 1237249846 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would point out that he undoubtedly doesnt understand any of those < 1237249850 0 :comexk!n=comex@teklinks.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1237249854 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor does he have proof that they're not formal systems. < 1237249856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1237249875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It irritates me when channels go over primordial stupids about AI. < 1237249882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE'VE THOUGHT OF IT ALL BEFORE, GODDAMMIT < 1237249886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're almost certainly wrong :P < 1237249886 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :infact, the idea that anything can be non-formal < 1237249892 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its basically a dualist view < 1237249903 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :material world + spiritual component < 1237249913 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats the only possible view that can even potentially admit such things < 1237249927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1237249932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people just think they're special. < 1237249945 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but even then, you have to wonder how a spirit world would work if not by being based on the nature of the things involved < 1237249953 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh they ARE special ehird < 1237249955 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very special < 1237249978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in retarded? < 1237249981 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1237250025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: they're not that retarded though. some people believe in God. < 1237250041 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's even worse. < 1237250048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was my implication < 1237250055 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1237250073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :butts < 1237250078 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::d < 1237250083 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::))))))))))) < 1237250091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive is so easy to please < 1237250092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just say butts < 1237250095 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::d < 1237250097 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i believe in butts < 1237250104 0 :comex!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1237250107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :butt butt butt butt < 1237250125 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::d :d :d :d < 1237250130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::d < 1237250137 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey i think i see a pattern :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD < 1237250142 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pruit igoe < 1237250183 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i see a butt < 1237250197 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pruit < 1237250198 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :igoe < 1237250227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :% grep no-link-chk **/* < 1237250227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zsh: argument list too long: grep < 1237250228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuu < 1237250230 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: lbreakout2 <-- it exists for OS X too? ok < 1237250233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: SDL < 1237250303 0 :GregorR!n=gregor@65.183.185.209 JOIN :#esoteric < 1237250433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mgm < 1237250434 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm* < 1237253318 0 :mib_p3zdz9st!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ROOTS BLOODY ROOTS < 1237255020 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1237255935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things I Never Want To Here Again, #475: < 1237255938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Hear < 1237255939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:11 comexk: also, ehird: what if I have a struct with 5000000 fields < 1237256003 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are talking to a database and are getting a row from a table < 1237256006 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely that's a reasonable use case < 1237256020 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5000000. fields. < 1237256024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :weren't you going to bed < 1237256027 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1237256029 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also < 1237256041 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I was merely imitating your use of very large numbers < 1237256041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1237256043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1237256044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1237256048 0 :comexk!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was referring to more like 10 fields < 1237261029 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1237261334 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/CHIQRSX9_Plus < 1237261343 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does X make the language turing-complete? < 1237261428 0 :mib_p3zdz9st!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :58 days until Frank Sinatra Day < 1237261431 0 :mib_p3zdz9st!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1237261660 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lulz. < 1237261667 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X doesnt, really. < 1237261829 0 :mib_p3zdz9st!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1237262005 0 :MizardX-!i=MizardX@92.254.128.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1237262295 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1237262298 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@92.254.128.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1237262383 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1237262589 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1237262692 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1237262727 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-127-9.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1237264564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1237264577 0 :ehird!n=ehird@208.78.103.223 JOIN :#esoteric < 1237264669 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1237264669 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1237264669 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1237264669 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1237264669 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1237264718 0 :ineiros!n=ineiros@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1237264718 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-37-207.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1237264718 0 :kerlo!n=ihope@normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1237264718 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1237264718 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1237265451 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1237265453 0 :rodgort!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1237265456 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1237265456 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1237265456 0 :ineiros!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1237265456 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1237265456 0 :psygnisfive!n=psygnisf@c-71-57-164-119.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1237265482 0 :rodgort!n=rodgort@ludios.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1237265482 0 :Ilari!n=user@a88-113-39-59.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1237265482 0 :kerlo!n=ihope@normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1237265482 0 :sebbu!n=sebbu@ADijon-152-1-37-207.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1237265482 0 :ineiros!n=ineiros@kosh.hut.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1237265709 0 :MizardX-!i=MizardX@92.254.128.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1237265883 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1237265888 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1237266318 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer) < 1237266327 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@92.254.128.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1237268249 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1237269422 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1237270038 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1237270804 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (For guidance on the above sentence, see oerjan.) < 1237270820 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not nice to ping me from a completely unknown nick. < 1237270834 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that it was unexpected who it really was. < 1237270847 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@92.254.128.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1237270871 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats ehird to make the point clear -----### < 1237271004 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : qhqrdghqst, so is it a long or a short t in motif? < 1237271015 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't think english had long consonants < 1237271036 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what they call long vowels aren't really either < 1237271040 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iiuc < 1237271087 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(being diphthongs) < 1237271145 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : how does X make the language turing-complete? < 1237271159 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by turning it into a rotation of perl, iirc < 1237271172 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least in my implementation) < 1237271268 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get it < 1237271327 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's a joke, obviously < 1237271363 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :X makes the rest of the program being interpreted as a TC language. < 1237271376 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it is a _random_ TC language, so that it is still useless. < 1237271390 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*be < 1237271809 0 :MizardX-!i=MizardX@92.254.128.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1237271973 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer) < 1237272011 0 :MizardX-!i=MizardX@92.254.128.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1237272091 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1237272099 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1237272422 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1237272573 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-44-150.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1237272624 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-44-150.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1237273312 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :calvino.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1237275236 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1237276799 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1237276800 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1237278988 0 :neldoreth!n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth JOIN :#esoteric < 1237279809 0 :tombom!i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1237280569 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-29-148.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1237280612 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: isn't "beep" a long vowel? < 1237281072 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wiktionary's english pronunciation key has four cases of "x:" IPA markup, which would sound long-wovelish: the ɑː part in father, the iː part in ease, see (and presumably beep), the ɔː part in law, caught, saw and uː in lose, soon. Oh, and a ɜː(ɹ) construction in fur, bird. < 1237281144 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think of an example where the just different vowel lengths would have different meanings. We (Finnish) do that all the time. < 1237281153 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/the just/just the/ < 1237281238 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1237281347 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they often have different meanings, it's just the vowel changes when it's lengthened < 1237282537 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :english has no vowel length contrast < 1237282547 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no true contrast, anyway < 1237282660 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can analyze /i:/ and /I/ as contrasting length, but they differ greatly in quality < 1237282684 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and often phonetically the length isnt different at all < 1237283619 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Quit: Quit: Quit: Quit: Quit: Quit: Quit: Quit: Quit: Quit" < 1237285109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders the Swedish "sil" and "sill". They mean very different things < 1237285126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and vowel length is the only difference < 1237285192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sil ~ sieve, sill is a type of fish, don't remember the English name for it. < 1237285491 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finnish "taka", "takka", "taakka" and "takaa" all have very different meanings. ("taka" ~ back, used in compound words, "takka" is a fireplace, "taakka" ~ burden, and "takaa" is the third-person-singular form of the verb assure, although it's also approximately "from behind" too.) < 1237285510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, assure from behind? < 1237285637 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would be "takaa takaa", although it doesn't really make sense. Usually the object being assured would be rather close to the "takaa"-used-as-verb. I can't really invent a non-artificial-sounding sentece which would have those two words consecutively like that. < 1237285672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it sounds rather strange that a single word has two so different meanings... < 1237285688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and with the same spelling < 1237285716 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One is an adverb, the other is a verb, so it's usually rather easy to interpret from context which one it is. < 1237285740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but why have they ended up the same? < 1237285756 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's only that particular third-person-singular case of the verb, anyway. The infinitive ("to assure") is "taata". < 1237285820 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assure ~ min takaan, you assure ~ sin takaat, he/she assures ~ hn takaa, we assure ~ me takaamme, you assure (plural) ~ te takaatte, they assure ~ he takaavat. < 1237285860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so what is the etymology(sp?) < 1237285895 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No clue, but I assume most of our multiple-meanings words are because of the metric assload of noun cases we have. < 1237285912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, "noun cases"? < 1237285937 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_language_noun_cases < 1237285955 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Goes with the "not a lot of prepositions" thing. < 1237285959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh sorry, got to rush, I'm late... < 1237285960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk < 1237286001 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No worries, it's not like it makes any sense; it's a natural language, after all. < 1237287105 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: In most cases if you ask about the etymology of a Finnish word you'll get either 'nobody knows' or 'proto-Finno-Ugric' both of which mean essentially that it's been like that forever and nobody knows why. < 1237287238 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wiktionary's Etymology for "taata" is "From earlier *takata", which isn't very informative. < 1237288260 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why is the official support always so useless? I have this NAS box with two SATA slots, and two 750 GB disks full of stuff in a RAID-1 setup in a computer, and would like to migrate them to the NAS box so they can noisily hum in a different room. Official answer as to how to do it without backing up all those gigabytes to somewhere elsewhere: < 1237288299 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"This cannot be done cause the filesystem in the NSA-220. This needs to be set up in the NSA and you cant import a disc with content on it. So you need to move the files to another HDD and then import the files that you want." < 1237288320 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=BeholdMy@smartskola.botkyrka.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1237288412 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn, I thought djinn and jean would be a long-wovel-distinction example but they're /dʒɪn/ and /dʒiːn/ < 1237288460 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I asked if their web-configurator is flexible enough so that I could configure one of those disks as a degraded RAID-1 thing, but they ignored that completely. I also asked for details on how the box sets up disks and filesystems, so I could prepare the disk in advance (the box is linux-based and does not use any proprietary file systems or anything), but they also ignored that completely. < 1237288485 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just "this cannot be done cause the filesystem". Right. < 1237288646 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure I could reliably distinguish ɪ and i. < 1237288695 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they're somewhat interchangeable in Finnish. < 1237288719 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyhoo, the latter is 'sharper' if you can understand that < 1237288737 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Where you open your mouth really wide < 1237288806 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I can pronounce 'niin' either way, for instance, and neither really sounds wrong < 1237288924 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be I'm just doing it wrong, alternatively. :-P < 1237288928 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Excess Flood < 1237288949 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=BeholdMy@smartskola.botkyrka.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1237288951 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1237289002 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are some phonology-related thing our Swedish teacher gripes about constantly, and I think it's another case of pretty-much-equivalent-in-Finnish pair. < 1237289131 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it was related to ø/ɵ-like sounds. < 1237289169 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even the symbols look pretty similar. :p < 1237289348 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and the Russian ɨ, that was another difficult one. < 1237291814 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1237291820 0 :neldoreth!n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth JOIN :#esoteric < 1237292376 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1237292394 0 :fizzie!i=fis@iris.zem.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1237296524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, heh ok < 1237296625 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, to me djinn and jean sound quite different...? < 1237296680 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<0lö.- < 1237296789 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :× AnMaster ponders the Swedish "sil" and "sill". They mean very different things ||| AnMaster: and vowel length is the only difference <<< a swedish guy once told me the long ones are different from the short ones < 1237296808 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ofc you probably wouldn't know that from just speaking it natively) < 1237296815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1237296837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :double consonant in Swedish means the vowel directly in front is shorter < 1237296840 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that swedish has different vowels for short and long versions. < 1237296861 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, and a different vowel, according to a swedish person on #random_channel < 1237296877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw in English I find the difference between joke/yoke/yolk hard. I mean to me they sound almost the same < 1237296884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mean,* < 1237296907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, hm maybe, we usually call them long/short versions though < 1237296918 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :joke and yoke have nothing to do with each other < 1237296920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe IPA thinks it is a different one < 1237296959 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "y" there is like swedish "jag", the "j" is a french version of the usual "ch" sound < 1237296966 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm not sure whether that exists in swedish < 1237296971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1237296983 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i think yolk is equal to yoke < 1237296995 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what was unclear? < 1237297014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, they yoke and joke sound the same to me < 1237297032 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The word "tjock" has a vaguely joke-'j'-like sound, I think. Although my Swedish is very rusty. < 1237297040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/they// < 1237297043 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: they can't sound the same to you, sorry. < 1237297052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, ? < 1237297082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm. That would depend on dialect. Like "tjoke"? < 1237297095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more like "djoke" someone said iirc < 1237297123 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: swedish has the consonant that starts "yoke", i'm not sure it has the one in "joke", but it's just a voiced "ch", which you should have. < 1237297151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why the faviconfor wikitionary looks like random garbage in one tab... < 1237297158 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :favicon for* < 1237297184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm reloading it fixed it < 1237297192 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: also i checked the yoke/yolk thing at one source, and they seem to be the same. < 1237297207 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you probably shouldn't be able to distinguish between them < 1237297210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/yolk lists too ways to pronounce it < 1237297238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UK/US < 1237297245 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you definitely should recognize joke/yolk < 1237297300 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you pronounce "joke" like you would in swedish ofc < 1237297323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, and that I can't really hear the difference... < 1237297393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/that// < 1237297450 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well. confusing "ch" and "j" is a common mistake for finns, but we don't have either of those really. and i'm pretty sure you have all the consonants necessary to distinguish between joke and yoke. < 1237297531 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean it's still not acceptable not to know the difference ofc, but at least i can believe it could happen. < 1237297553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, it is the difference in the j/y sound there that is hard + I'm pretty sure it isn't at all like "tjock" as fizzie suggested. At least not the way "tjock" is pronounced in these parts of the country... < 1237297576 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have to agree that the difference between /j/ and /dʒ/ (which is what "yoke" and "joke" start with, according to OED) should be rather noticeable, given that the first one isn't even a fricative ("shshsh"-like sound) at all. < 1237297603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, we don't have "fricative" sounds in Swedish though < 1237297609 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh, you do. < 1237297609 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1237297615 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, not for j at least? < 1237297622 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION suddenly symphatizes with ehird < 1237297626 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For example ɕ, as in kjol "skirt". < 1237297659 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cannot accept someone knowing less phonetics than the little that he does < 1237297661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm, "fricative" is what we in Swedish call "tonande ljud" right? < 1237297698 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know Swedish, but that sounds like "voiced sound", which is a very different thing. < 1237297704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1237297723 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and swedish has voiced sounds < 1237297737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, then what is "fricative" in Swedish? I don't have a dictionary around here atm... < 1237297805 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: isn't the "y" kinda fricative? i mean you're basically narrowing the passage of air in the vowel "e", which is afaik the definition of fricative < 1237297817 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean i know it isn't actually a fricative, but i don't think it's that far away < 1237297841 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, your fricatives (according to wikipedia) are f (as in 'fot' - foot), s (as in 'sot' - soot), ɕ (as in 'kjol' - skirt) and ɧ (as in 'sjok' - chunk). < 1237297889 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: I think you need to get some serious turbulence in your airflow before you can call it a fricative. < 1237297948 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any shushy-type sound probably qualifies. But Swedish doesn't seem to have any voiced fricatives. Maybe. I know so little about these things that any attempt at sensible discussion is pretty much doomed to failure. < 1237297955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to find the common pattern in those sounds < 1237297958 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i can pronounce it as a fricative, getting an "h" type of sound < 1237297970 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i guess it's not very fricative < 1237298011 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah hm I think I see < 1237298012 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yeah but this is not about sensible discussion, it's about being annoyed about AnMaster not knowing english! or maybe it's just me. < 1237298043 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway there was this game idea i had, any nice name ideas? < 1237298046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well Swedish doesn't have /dʒ/ afaik. If we do, where? < 1237298101 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you do; but personally I find even the "fricative/not" difference between j in yoke and dʒ in joke very discernible. < 1237298126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, you have those sounds in fi? < 1237298142 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, but like you, we have the "y" < 1237298169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes that isn't an issue. The issue is that /dʒ/ sound the same! < 1237298230 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We have precious few sounds here. Especially as far as fricatives go, we just have f and s, unless you start counting non-native words. < 1237298232 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually just the fact there's a "d" before the voiced "sh" should be enough of a difference < 1237298247 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also you could argue we don't really have f < 1237298281 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, officially speaking it should be *we* who should be complaining about the joke/yoke thing, since: < 1237298283 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"[f] appears in native words only in the Southwestern dialects, but is reliably distinguished by Finnish speakers. The rest of the foreign fricatives are not. 'š' or 'sh' [ʃ] appears only in non-native words, often pronounced 's', although some educated speakers make a distinction between e.g. šakki 'chess' and sakki 'a gang (of people)'. The orthography also includes the letters 'z' [z] and 'ž' or 'zh' [ʒ], although their use is marginal, and they have < 1237298283 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no true phonemic status. For example, azeri and džonkki may be pronounced aseri and tsonkki without fear of confusion." < 1237298339 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :According to that, we can barely distinguish s and f. < 1237298366 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/f is easy for me < 1237298377 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again the finnish recommendation is to pronounce all loan words as originally spoken, which i don't think all languages enforce < 1237298388 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: kind of a useless comment < 1237298394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok, yes < 1237298401 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that was your point < 1237298417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well partly < 1237298421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well,* < 1237298598 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, I blame this fricative-poorness for the fact that learning Russian pronunciation was so difficult; they've got something like seven s-style characters: с, ц, ч, ш, щ, х and ж. < 1237298621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1237298681 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially the ш, щ difference was something really silly. Wikipedia explains the first as "sh in shut (voiceless retroflex fricative)" and the second as "similar to the "sh" in sheer (but with a slightly more "y" sound) < 1237298681 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sometimes followed by < 1237298681 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a sound similar to the "ch" in chip (closer to a "y" and "ch" sound at the same time) such as the phrase "Welsh cheese") (voiceless alveolo-palatal fricative)" < 1237298745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, isn't the sh in shut and sheer the same? < 1237298762 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To me it is. But note that it's "with a slightly more 'y' sound". < 1237298784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, sh with y? I can't even imagine a mix of them < 1237298857 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just sounded (in the samples we listened to) "sharper" in an unidentifiably vague way, to me. < 1237299060 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually that щ, being the voiceless alveolo-palatal fricative, should be pronounced pretty much exactly like your word 'kjol'. So that's what it sounds like. Now you just need to imagine the same thing but "with a slightly less 'y' sound" to understand ш. < 1237299371 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know about the "more 'y' sound" thing, but the sh's sound different to me because of the following vowel < 1237299458 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but dunno. < 1237299611 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and then Russian has the ы character, pronounced /ɨ/, which we completely lack; that sounded pretty strange too. It's almost midway between very "normal" i and u. (Swedish example words: is 'ice', bot 'penance' -- apparently you only have our "u" vowel as a long one, the short variant is a bit different.) < 1237299646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eh? < 1237299655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is u in bot? < 1237299671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do you call the o sound "u" suddenly? < 1237299678 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because he's talking to me < 1237299694 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and explained what he meant by swedish examples so you'd understand too < 1237299744 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also the finnish vowels are better as universal vowels, since they are unambiguous, unlike yours) < 1237299748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm so it is between a long "i" and a long "o"? < 1237299768 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently. < 1237299782 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't say i see how that would go, but i suck at vowels < 1237299798 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are mostly just a big mess to me < 1237299839 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, and according to ickypedia it's also found in Swedish: in the word bi ('bee') "in dialects in Närke and Bohuslän and in sociolects in Stockholm and Gothenburg". < 1237299872 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sociolect is a funny term. < 1237299887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah that iiiii < 1237299911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, The i in Närke is different from the i in Bohuslän < 1237299923 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, i may know it too, but would have to hear it < 1237299926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you need to be from either Närke or Bohuslän to hear the difference. Most Swedes don't < 1237299934 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: I think someone compared it to a drunk man speaking. < 1237299939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION speaks with a slight hint of närkinska < 1237299959 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: then it's probably what i'm thinkin of < 1237299961 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*g < 1237299984 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe i should take those phonetics lessons from psygnisfive at some point < 1237300044 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure he'd be more than happy to give you some "lessons", yes. < 1237300063 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;;;;) < 1237300074 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that wasn't very funny < 1237300118 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with actual linguistics i wouldn't be as afraid, since he's probably more interested in that than sex < 1237300129 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i don't think he's that interested in phonetics < 1237300132 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"grep -i 'psygnisfive' * | grep -i oklopol" was funny reading. < 1237300144 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1237300145 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :paste < 1237300201 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://pastie.org/private/dbfuik4fr6bshmy0r4kf9a is a very short snippet. < 1237300210 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He just sounds so excited in that, is all. < 1237300243 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love the beginning < 1237300259 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"look at me oklopol!" < 1237300310 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm actually doing esolang related stuff atm btw :o < 1237300330 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally my life is back on track < 1237300398 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, that reminds me, I have a seminar course presentation tomorrow, I should be doing some slides for it. And there's a "design some homework for the other students" thing too. < 1237300412 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'm not sure why it reminds me; the seminar is not esolang-related.) < 1237300487 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"design some homework for the other students" <<< like on a course? < 1237300510 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we once had "make a question to be put on the exam" in high school < 1237300537 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. It's this seminar course; every presentationer has to do a "does not take more than 30 minutes to answer" homework assignment, present it to the other students, and grade them. < 1237300564 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Come to think of it, I should also actually *do* the last guy's homework thing. < 1237300566 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so O(n) homework < 1237300583 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully it's not a big seminar < 1237300593 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not; there's something like 14-16 of us. < 1237300623 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12, actually. < 1237300649 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seminar about what? can you somehow integrate a stack language for creating fractals in the exercise? < 1237300671 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I can, as it's about noise-robust speech recognition. < 1237300764 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I mentioned, but my conference paper (vaguely on the same topics) was accepted to this SPECOM conference (in St. Petersburg this summer), so now I'll get a published paper. I feel like a real science-man! (Or, as we in the business call it, a scientsist.) < 1237300783 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool, you're practically famous! < 1237300807 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does lead to a well-defined Erdös number, but that's about it as far as benefits go. < 1237300869 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what would that number be (in value)? < 1237300899 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A six, through the co-author path: fizzie - Kurimo, Mikko - Oja, Erkki - Cooper, Leon N. - Zeitouni, Ofer - Diaconis, Persi W. - Erdös, Paul. < 1237300918 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have not verified that this is the shortest path, so 6 is more of an upper bound really. < 1237300943 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1237300958 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there a good database of who's worked with whom? < 1237301005 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's the MathSciNet database of math-related papers. < 1237301031 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ams.org/mathscinet/collaborationDistance.html if you happen to be in a network of a subscribing institution. < 1237301053 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not < 1237301058 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a "Use Erdös" button directly next to the "another author" text field, so it's pretty obvious what it is for. < 1237301080 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1237301089 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's only math stuff, so I had to do some creative guessing to find the beginning of that path. < 1237301143 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looked up oerjan < 1237301148 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he beat you. < 1237301156 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very likely. < 1237301169 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 is not an especially low number. < 1237301383 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Should be an ő there in Erdős instead of ö, but I didn't bother figuring out how to get that character here. < 1237301614 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ended up both doing it wrong *and* figuring it out < 1237301709 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had it written correctly in earlier irclogs, so when I grepped for that value, I got a copy-pasteable ő for free. < 1237305010 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1237305187 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: djinn and jean sound almost the same, the difference is only in the vowel sound < 1237305244 0 :Hiato!n=1@dsl-245-1-23.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1237305281 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've heard you speak perfect english, Deewiant, is this true < 1237305300 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course < 1237305320 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm that's nice < 1237305493 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've heard that you are also in all other senses the singular example of perfection in this world, Deewiant; is this true too? < 1237305504 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course < 1237305525 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hey! i really did hear that :P < 1237305569 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you will never know where < 1237305583 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mwahahah < 1237305585 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION leaves < 1237305912 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the gu < 1237306013 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stupid enter key... the hungarians translate the english 'j' as dzs, so the djin/jean thing makes sense to me < 1237306040 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, an alternative spelling for 'djinn' is 'jinn' :-P < 1237306046 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who put return next to backspace, and are they alive so I can stab them? < 1237306046 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Gungans. < 1237306066 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just move backspace elsewhere if it bothers you < 1237306085 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On certain laptop keyboards, it's easy to hit enter instead of ' when doing contractions. < 1237306205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well yes, but that is a rather large difference < 1237306241 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, I never claimed that they're supposed to sound the same, the whole point was that they'd differ in the length of the vowel only < 1237306247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl < 1237306254 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that was a failed example because they differ in the vowel itself, not only its length < 1237309966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah yes < 1237311506 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:34:37 btw in English I find the difference between joke/yoke/yolk hard. I mean to me they sound almost the same < 1237311513 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrm, that's a pet peeve of mine… < 1237311521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, eh? < 1237311521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yolk/yoke I can understand < 1237311526 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1237311527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in english y and j are very separat < 1237311527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1237311539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :j is sorta like... dg < 1237311542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well it is hard if you don't have one of the sounds in your own language < 1237311546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1237311569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and Swedish doesn't have /dʒ/ < 1237311589 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: But you've got /tʃ/, no? < 1237311599 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, maybe you don't actually < 1237311601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, *looks up what that one is* < 1237311612 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swedish is such a soft language :-P < 1237311618 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they do, and the "d" is audible too, and they have "d" < 1237311619 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, you don't have that < 1237311622 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1237311636 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't actually see that character correctly < 1237311643 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so may be wrong yes < 1237311668 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WxwrVw6Vsjw < 1237311690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, as "ch" in "chip" according to wikipedia? We have it in non-native words. Such as "chips" (the food stuff) < 1237311693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: My attempt to say yolk and joke as clearly as possible: http://filebin.ca/bxjget/yolkyjokey.ogg < 1237311698 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yep < 1237311701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :May help :P. (May amuse others.) < 1237311707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, though most people say it a bit differently in Swedish < 1237311718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like "schips" < 1237311720 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, I'd expect so < 1237311721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you see what I mean < 1237311728 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's not a Swedish sound. < 1237311731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1237311748 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the "tjock" sound? < 1237311800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well there is a very slight difference that i heard the second time I listened to it. However some of the times I'm not sure which you said. < 1237311803 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Plain /tjok/ or something, I think < 1237311810 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ohh. < 1237311816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Wow. Swedish ears are broken :P < 1237311823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Have a transcript: < 1237311823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, depends a bit on dialect < 1237311858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I think) < 1237311863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yolk, yolk, joke, joke, joke, joke, blah blah blah joke, joke, joke, JOKE, yolk, yolk, YOLK < 1237311879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe sociolect (spelling?) < 1237311909 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That JOKE sounded like CHOKE to me < 1237311917 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Too aspirated < 1237311920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yeah I was trying to emphasize the J < 1237311923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't work too well < 1237312076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I doubt you could hear the difference between the various dialectal "i" variations in Sweden. Especially between Närkinska and Bohuslänska, I even know a lot of Swedes that think they are the same (they are not). Alas I can't record it to help you compare since I can't speak Bohusländska. < 1237312089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt so too < 1237312093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though I can manage Närkinska like a native) < 1237312097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck, I have troubles with ü. < 1237312109 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ü? < 1237312110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, as in "uber"? < 1237312118 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, /y/. < 1237312124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it is y-ish < 1237312127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, I can handle that. But a lot of occurances are hard to make out for me. < 1237312127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very easy for me < 1237312142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't even know German. I took French classes instead! < 1237312159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shi shi shi shi, shi shi shi, shi shi shi shi shi < 1237312160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, Swedish has that sound. Though we spell it using "y" < 1237312165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a very common sound though < 1237312175 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not quite the same actually < 1237312177 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(For the person who lives under a rock: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lion-Eating_Poet_in_the_Stone_Den) < 1237312177 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "shi"'s shouldn't be too hard to distinguish < 1237312180 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought they sounded a bit different < 1237312189 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh? They are very close though < 1237312202 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(unless there are phonetic differences on top of the tones) < 1237312228 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and i don't think there are) < 1237312236 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or hmm, I'm not sure, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/German_phonology isn't explicit about which vowel maps to which letter < 1237312255 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyhoo, Swedish y is /ʏ/ and Finnish y is /y/ < 1237312267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw I know someone from Germany who lived in Sweden since the 1950s or so and still have troubles with the Swedish word "sju" (seven) < 1237312271 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finnish_phonology says German ü is /y/ but I'm not sure I agree < 1237312283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know what the IPA is for it < 1237312304 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: /ɧʏ/ I think < 1237312319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that looks like a blur in this font. < 1237312328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :James while John had^N a better effect on the teacher. < 1237312332 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Voiceless_palatal-velar_fricative - took me a few months to learn this one to an acceptable level when I first learned Swedish < 1237312335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/N/n/ < 1237312348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, oh that is easy < 1237312349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me < 1237312350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1237312365 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1237312371 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yeah, you've used it daily for 20 years :-P < 1237312420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what I remember was a problem is that it can be spelled in lots of way. That was a major problem when I was around 6 or 7 or so < 1237312442 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: is that the "sju" sound? < 1237312444 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sj? Can it? < 1237312450 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: I'm fairly sure it is < 1237312454 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1237312465 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think i know it well enough to fool most finns, probably not swedes tho < 1237312467 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, it is, the other one I thought it was is the same one < 1237312476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wanna learn < 1237312478 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: Yeah, I guess I'm that way too < 1237312479 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again many finns don't know it exists. < 1237312479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ITHKUIL PRONOUNCIATION < 1237312487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then KILL MYSELF out of HORROR < 1237312493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1237312508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that page you linked said "sje-sound" < 1237312510 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Start with Czech < 1237312517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure that is the one in sju? < 1237312563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it the one in "stjärna" or "tjära"? < 1237312566 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: e.g. sjok < 1237312586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what is the sound in stjärna and tjära called then? < 1237312604 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think that's two sounds < 1237312613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, "stj"? < 1237312614 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...yeah < 1237312633 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, the "tj" part < 1237312644 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I mean, the "s" is obviously separate :-P < 1237312645 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's two different sounds? < 1237312648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes < 1237312670 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION considers. < 1237312682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a language based on the lambda calculus and horn clauses or something. < 1237312683 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ɕ is the sound at the start of "kjol" < 1237312690 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's a bit different IMO? < 1237312700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok they are slightly different yes, but rather close < 1237312709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, it's all anonymous horn clauses. < 1237312716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Natural laanguge. < 1237312717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is. < 1237312718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conlang. < 1237312724 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the kind of tj in tjära < 1237312741 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The kj in kjol < 1237312745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just don't mix up tjära with kära! < 1237312754 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1237312773 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's easy, they're very different :-P < 1237312773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean it could be awfully embarrassing < 1237312791 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Jag har min kära i burken där" < 1237312804 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1237312804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, actually no. Or it depends on dialect. There is a difference yes. But not that large. < 1237312812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, hehe < 1237312827 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, to me it's an obvious difference. < 1237312847 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's like the difference between 'j' and 'ch'. (Or 'j' and 'y'? :-P) < 1237312873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, tch and k? < 1237312874 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how's "tjära" pronounced? < 1237312906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it is rather easy to say something in the middle that could be interpreted as either < 1237312939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, from what I heard of "finlandssvenska" the difference is way larger in that < 1237312962 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well yeah, because Finns can't pronounce stuff correctly. :-P < 1237312963 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finlandssvenska is an unlanguage < 1237312976 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like unlambda < 1237312980 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could be that I'm still thinking of 'tjära' incorrectly. < 1237312982 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, exactly < 1237313022 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I remember some animated movies based on Tove Janson's books that I watched when I was small. They spoke "finlandssvenska" there. And there the difference was much larger yes < 1237313075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, btw can you hear a difference between the "i" sound in Närkinska and the "i" sound in Bohusländska? < 1237313080 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see why any finnish person would want to learn finlandssvenska, maybe we should have finlandsenglish too and just accept the fact people don't like to learn languages well < 1237313100 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is no good at dialects : < 1237313105 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is no good at dialects :/ < 1237313109 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh < 1237313113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1237313113 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh < 1237313118 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[18:05:03] [KVS] Warning: Stray backslash at the end of the script < 1237313129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, "KVS"? < 1237313140 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KVIrc < 1237313148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard of it before < 1237313155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a shit kde client < 1237313168 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes it < 1237313192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05:47:02 * oklofok suddenly symphatizes with ehird < 1237313194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1237313196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let's get married. < 1237313223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably what ehird said... since the package description includes the word "advanced". It is like you should be careful of any country known as the "Democratic republic of " < 1237313238 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are probably not democracies < 1237313249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't emacs claim to be advanced < 1237313255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1237313278 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux is more 'advanced' than Windows < 1237313282 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Beware < 1237313286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is different. I was talking about the one line descriptions in the package manager. And for emacs that is: Description: The extensible, customizable, self-documenting real-time display editor < 1237313293 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: democratic republic of the united states of america < 1237313294 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which sound just as bad < 1237313308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :REAL-TIME DISPLAY EDITOR, AnMaster < 1237313309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's amazing < 1237313320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can edit and see changes as soon as your screen repaints! < 1237313326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah package maintainer must be an idiot < 1237313327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can see lines you're not even editing for context! < 1237313330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this emacs is *wild* < 1237313334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: gnu.org describes it as that < 1237313339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my < 1237313343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blame rms being a 70s hobo < 1237313350 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boho < 1237313361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm going to watch stephen fry's hilarious gnu video now < 1237313361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, isn't the full name "United States of America"? < 1237313367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and cringe < 1237313370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it was a joke < 1237313373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1237313389 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1237313401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I would have guessed that if it had been before Obama became president. Now it was a bit more confusing < 1237313427 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah obama shits rainbows and magic. < 1237313440 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. But do you prefer Obama or Bush? < 1237313462 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :family guy said bush is pretty stupid < 1237313465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you want a bath of dung or a bath of vomit or a bath of urine CHOOSE QUICKLY < 1237313482 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again south park said obama is a jewel thief. < 1237313492 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't know what to believe. < 1237313502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bushama bin laden < 1237313512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ITHE TRUTH IS OUT^I < 1237313515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if I were a pig: the first. But since I'm a human the last one + whatever they use to clean water on ISS. < 1237313522 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd probably go for urine < 1237313545 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then number one, vomit probably last < 1237313628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.kvirc.net/ <-- wth at the web site design. The thing at the top look like from some fantasy game... < 1237313638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what on earth does it has to do with irc? < 1237313652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a bunch of irc clients are like that < 1237313654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno why < 1237313660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably because of irc's LEET HAXOR sort of rep. < 1237313668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1237313672 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what other ones? < 1237313678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crap ones < 1237313717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:15 CTCP-reply VERSION from Robdgreat : Microsoft Internet Explorer v3.0 < 1237313719 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AIEEEEEEEEEEE < 1237313724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.irssi.org/ <-- "irssi - the client of the future" hahaha. < 1237313725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1237313731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you would like that! < 1237313746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a graphical installer on windows it seems! < 1237313749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the irony < 1237313770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:15 CTCP-reply ERRMSG from clog : unknown CTCP: VERSION < 1237313775 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irssi the best < 1237313792 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 < 1237313795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :limechat<3 < 1237313796 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1237313800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, well it is a good client, but I don't like it personally < 1237313809 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1237313812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, for example mixing all server messages in one tab < 1237313813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1237313816 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1237313828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too many irssis here < 1237313830 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah, but it's the best < 1237313842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, or not handling more than +vho properly (many networks use +a and +q too, including some that I need) < 1237313855 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, you're the fruit that's in 4000 channels < 1237313861 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess you have special needs then < 1237313872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, ... 561 atm... < 1237313875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :far from 4000 < 1237313881 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IS A LOT < 1237313885 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i guess irssi would kinda suck for switching between them < 1237313890 0 :Robdgreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, I use IE 3 for irc < 1237313894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: 'special needs' < 1237313896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use ERC in fact < 1237313923 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you really don't like something in irssi, you should be able to just fix it < 1237313926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/ERC < 1237313928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1237313934 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as far as i understand it has very good code < 1237313991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, there are some major design issues that you hit on a lot of other servers. It works fine on freenode and classical networks, But it has trouble dealing with networks using ircds like unrealircd, inspircd and so on < 1237314032 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1237314049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, it can't support more prefixes than +%@ and one additional one < 1237314055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on a network with two additional ones < 1237314070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all listed in the 005 numeric < 1237314072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1237314089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PREFIX=(qaohv)~&@%+ < 1237314159 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure the network has perfectly valid reasons to need all of those < 1237314197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, ? Is that your defense for why irssi should be hard coded to only support one extra? < 1237314214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament's right you know. < 1237314246 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well not my problem, for an end user it should just work whatever network I connect to. Also a lot of networks have that set of prefixes < 1237314285 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly unrealircd is the most common ircd (source: http://searchirc.com/ircd-versions), and it has those prefixes < 1237314324 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess irssi does suck then :( < 1237314325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally I prefer InspIRCd. For which this is configurable < 1237314356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, the irssi devs refuses to fix the issue. < 1237314362 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes sense < 1237314378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament, I even know someone (a good programmer) who wrote a patch to do it, and it got rejected. < 1237314380 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is their argument similar to mine? < 1237314405 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The network has good reasons to need prefixes, so irssi shoudln't implement them"? < 1237314435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I think lament was being ironic there. Anyway fact is most networks out there use them. Not all but a clear majority < 1237314453 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: s/ironic/sarcastic/ < 1237314459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ok. < 1237314474 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't sarcastic. I was ironic. < 1237314497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: oh the sarcasm < 1237314517 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh the irony! < 1237315341 0 :Hiato!n=1@dsl-245-1-23.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1237315499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I just read about Finlandssvenska on wikipedia. Would you say "anden" (en:~the spirit) and "anden" (en:the duck) is pronounced the same way or differently? < 1237315545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err not duck exactly. http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/%C3%84nder < 1237315547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that < 1237315611 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know, I've never heard those pronounced :-P < 1237315662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I invented a new fractal. < 1237315664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Finlandssvenska says they are the same in Finlandssvenska. They are almost the same in Swedish but not exactly. < 1237315671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1237315673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of fractal < 1237315698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, wp says the difference is http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tonaccent . There is however no English interwiki link from it. No idea what it is called in English < 1237315784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically, I think it's a 1d fractal after infinity iterations < 1237315790 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This bip-bouncer is a bit funny with version replies; if I CTCP myself I get one reply from it, and one reply from each connected client. < 1237315805 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I noticed someone had been versionifying around.) < 1237315811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :me < 1237315841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, do you know about that thing? < 1237315844 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Either I can't tell the difference or I've just never heard a case where I could compare. The only examples being from Swedish, Norwegian, and Chinish doesn't help much. :-P < 1237315927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, Tomten (en-lit:the father xmas) vs. tomten (en:the area around a free standing house that belongs to the house owner (and includes the area the actual house is built on), forgot the word for it) < 1237315939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are pronounced differently < 1237315952 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I wouldn't know such details. About "tonaccent", http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tone_(linguistics) is probably what you mean. < 1237315959 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter is fi:tontti btw < 1237315965 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chinese is a typical example of a language that heavily uses that stuff. < 1237315983 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: And yes, I saw the examples on the page, and my above statement still applies. < 1237315987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah yes that was mentioned on the Swedish page too < 1237316007 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_phonology#Stress_and_pitch < 1237316022 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, formel/formell. Now that's an obvious difference. < 1237316032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, that isn't the same as that < 1237316055 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just about to say that. < 1237316062 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant you know chinese? < 1237316068 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: No, not at all. < 1237316076 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1237316078 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see. < 1237316081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor do I < 1237316105 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh actually psygnisfive studied at least some of it iirc < 1237316113 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Find me a short video or sound bite where they have such a word pair so I can compare < 1237316123 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: the shi shi poem, are there phonetic differences in the shi's or just tonal? < 1237316128 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Me neither, but a study-mate-sort-of-person has been in China for a year or two now, he talks about the language every now and then. < 1237316139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I could record it, though since I just ate some very sticky nougat it wouldn't be very clear.... < 1237316150 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1237316169 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1237316169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, if you can wait a few minutes I should be able to do it < 1237316187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, also what is a "sound bite"? < 1237316211 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well you know like taking a really sound bite from a bread, one that definitely gets a piece off < 1237316213 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://www.google.com/search?q=define%3Asound%20bite < 1237316240 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that's another definition, but it's much less useful < 1237316265 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And much more correct. :-P < 1237316324 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah right < 1237316535 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1237316750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GOTO CONSIDERED PARMFUL < 1237316768 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : sil ~ sieve, sill is a type of fish, don't remember the English name for it. < 1237316776 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :herring, red or otherwise < 1237316780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1237316793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: ITYM julesfish < 1237316795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er gules < 1237316804 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is that < 1237316821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never herd of it either < 1237316828 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no bell rings on either of them < 1237316847 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it's a horrible misspelling of lutefisk < 1237316855 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even I have no idea what ehird's talking about < 1237316862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :………… < 1237316864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dude. < 1237316868 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rodger's puzzles? < 1237316870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Remember? < 1237316872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2007? < 1237316874 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1237316875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GulesFish, Basil.tif? < 1237316883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duuudes whattt < 1237316887 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was eons ago < 1237316898 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat had a rather diabolical series of puzzles up on his website; GulesFish was one of them. < 1237316899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1237316900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it was < 1237316904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1237316907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what was basils' solution btw < 1237316909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: before your time < 1237316910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :move along < 1237316930 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Take an image editor and play around with everything. I'm sure you'll find it eventually. < 1237316935 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember gulesfish < 1237316939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the site is dead. < 1237316947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, love iwc today < 1237316947 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you didn't keep Basil.tif? < 1237316972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was on the other machine; which died a peaceful death a few days ago. < 1237316982 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did it die? < 1237316985 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm google actually found some of the logs for that < 1237316988 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Alright, fine. < 1237317005 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :computers can die pieceful deaths? < 1237317009 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1237317011 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pieceful :D < 1237317012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the motherboard is a shitty cheap one (I mean really cheap); it just stopped booting. It'd whirr, but no beep from the BIOS. < 1237317021 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ah, but do you have a control sample? maybe your love was a measure error. < 1237317029 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Basil.tif had some text in the picture that was colored something like #FFFFFE against an #FFFFFF background. < 1237317032 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Parental overlords gave it to the local computer shop; they said the cost of replacing all the components would be the cost of a new PC. < 1237317033 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what you get for starting to write a sentence, taking a sip of coke, and emptying the phonetic buffer < 1237317042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hahah < 1237317043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hehe < 1237317058 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklofok: i say they can, very easily < 1237317060 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also had a lot of weird stuff hidden in the .tif that was meant to throw you off. < 1237317083 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*measuring < 1237317083 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: does the hard drive still work? < 1237317090 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should copy the data off it < 1237317090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: probably < 1237317096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's nothing there of value < 1237317099 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, actually i guess even in humans a "peaceful death" doesn't mean a slow fade into inexistance. < 1237317103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Consider that I've rarely touched that machine since 2006 < 1237317113 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh accelerating channel < 1237317122 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you may find that there's something there of value later < 1237317125 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and nostalgia's always fun < 1237317135 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eventually it will rival #wikipedia or #gentoo in chat volume. < 1237317137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, I was rather an idiot in 2006; the nostalgia is mostly cringes. < 1237317148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1237317154 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:D < 1237317154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION tries to remember how to record < 1237317162 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :things haven't changed much in 3 years eh < 1237317163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a peaceful death of a computer is where it slowly but surely gets less and less working (it was freezing up and messing up the display a lot a few days before) and then just stops :P < 1237317164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :arecord --obscure-commandline < 1237317169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigh < 1237317170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: Fuck you :) < 1237317171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ttyrec file.rec -e command < 1237317177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sound... < 1237317179 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1237317185 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recording a terminal session's more fun < 1237317188 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nostalgia isn't what it used to be < 1237317199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that joke's made far too often < 1237317202 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a cliche here in the UK < 1237317209 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, useless for helping Deewiant understand how tomten and tomten are different in Swedish < 1237317217 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: don't complain about being the straight man < 1237317219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My nostalgia is mostly for things that never happened; or will happen; or are happening presently—but never that happen to me. < 1237317222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm rather bizarre. < 1237317249 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sox's "rec" tool is usually easier. Just "rec test.wav"; around here the defaults seem sensible enough (48 kHz, stereo, 16-bit; rather overkill but works). < 1237317260 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but, you mean that joke was better before? *ducks* < 1237317261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, don't have "sox" < 1237317274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :install it < 1237317279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sox is a nice tool < 1237317287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1237317369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I use timidity to generate sound files, although admittedly that's doing something completely different < 1237317379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wth, *goes to kmix* < 1237317406 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Audacity also has a record-it button, if you happen to have it and don't want to fiddle with a command line. < 1237317432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what's up with your trend of "use this instead; it's in the same category as what you want to do but doesn't actually do it" < 1237317471 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't want to answer that question, is it OK if I answer an unrelated but completely different question instead? < 1237317477 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*related < 1237317479 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ais523 may be becoming a true software engineer < 1237317480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what formats can you handle? < 1237317482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flac? ogg? < 1237317485 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Anything. < 1237317487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Why don't you ask a question instead? It's the same type of thing, but different. < 1237317492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, flac in ogg container then < 1237317492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1237317494 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Some might take that as a challenge. < 1237317506 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes me! < 1237317510 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or even *shiver* a politician < 1237317514 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Do you have the 3gpp AMR-WB/NB codecs both? < 1237317514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FLAC in OGG is simple. < 1237317517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hardly a challenge. < 1237317518 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I challenge you to encode it in a 1-bit .wav < 1237317521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh < 1237317525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not even uncommon < 1237317530 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in theory, even with a 1-bit encoding you can get the music to sound fine if the frequency's high enough < 1237317535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Deewiant: Do you have the 3gpp AMR-WB/NB codecs both? <-- I don't have them < 1237317537 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Beats me. < 1237317541 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik < 1237317543 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to the slew rate of the speakerse < 1237317545 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*speakers < 1237317547 0 :oklofok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can play all files that start playing when i double-click them < 1237317554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about raw? < 1237317563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ file tone.raw < 1237317563 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tone.raw: RIFF (little-endian) data, WAVE audio, Microsoft PCM, 16 bit, stereo 48000 Hz < 1237317565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that ok? < 1237317577 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just arecord -f dat < 1237317579 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also in practice, many A/D converters are technically speaking 1-bit, it's just that they have a high enough frequency. And then some stuff to get multi-bit values. < 1237317586 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Those weird speech-encoding codecs I probably don't have, actually. < 1237317647 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Isn't that a pain, since knowing the kind of data within is impossible, it can only be guessed? < 1237317654 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You'd make me write the WAV headers myself :-P < 1237317658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, heh < 1237317675 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: You could write some pretty reliable heuristics, though. < 1237317679 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, I just did flac --best tone.raw and it guessed it perfectly < 1237317687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I doubt you would have any issues. < 1237317694 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, tools guess that. < 1237317708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway: http://omploader.org/vMWU3Nw < 1237317715 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed that they'd fail since it's just random bytes as far as they know < 1237317739 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assumed (given a .raw extension) that they'd just use some default values. < 1237317744 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, translation: "Do you believe in father xmas? The house is on the " < 1237317747 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's nice if they actually intelligently guess. < 1237317751 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster, if it's in a RIFF file, it's not raw. It has a header specifying the audio coding, the bits per sample, the channels, and the sampling frequency... < 1237317761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah interesting < 1237317769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I don't really know this stuff < 1237317770 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is, in fact, a WAV file. < 1237317771 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1237317774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1237317810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Safari plays it; so it's probably something common < 1237317813 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, if 'file' can dig up the information, it definitely isn't raw data. But a more audio-oriented tool could actually guess. < 1237317820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, ah I should have used -t raw < 1237317825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-t, --file-type TYPE file type (voc, wav, raw or au) < 1237317833 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The main difference I can detect is the length of the pause before 'ten' < 1237317846 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or it's not really a pause but I forget what it's properly called < 1237317863 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes thats it. And I'm trying to make it extra large in that example < 1237317869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usually the difference is way smaller < 1237317906 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's a stop. < 1237317915 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Can you make one where you don't exaggerate it? I want to see if I can still notice it < 1237317927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure. And true raw this time? < 1237317962 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Preferably not, since Firefox was able to play that without me having to download it < 1237317966 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's also a 'plosive', if you want to sound like a more classier guy. < 1237317968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1237317978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never had firefox play in the browser < 1237317983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since when did it do that? < 1237317985 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Plosive was actually what I was thinking of, cheers. < 1237318010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh even mplayer fails on raw < 1237318012 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Either it's because I have a different version or it's forwarding it to the mplayer plugin or whatever < 1237318013 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I guess not raw < 1237318017 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: cat it to /dev/audio < 1237318025 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC, it uses raw < 1237318043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that is noice < 1237318044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :noise* < 1237318066 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, clearly you have the wrong bitwidth or rate or something < 1237318073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1237318083 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: /dev/audio also uses mu-Law encoding of samples, not simple linear PCM. < 1237318097 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: /dev/dsp defaults to 8 bits per sample and some absurdly low frequency, and /dev/audio uses mu-Law. < 1237318098 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I didn't know that < 1237318111 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and /dev/dsp? I didn't know of that one < 1237318128 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/dev/dsp does 8 kHz, 8-bit single-channel by default, I think. < 1237318138 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that sounds right. < 1237318164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets see < 1237318184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://omploader.org/vMWU3YQ < 1237318188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flac this time < 1237318197 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That goes to mplayer < 1237318218 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, for me both show download dialogs < 1237318243 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other one shows nothing but plays on every refresh < 1237318248 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/dev/audio does µ-law encoding because that's what Sun used, and I guess that's where it's from, or at least part of the line of descent. < 1237318256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1237318266 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Firefox itself won't play anything, so the behaviour depends on the plugins. < 1237318274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1237318296 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At work there's some sort of Gnome totem (media player) plugin installed, and it almost never does anything useful. < 1237318298 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Are you sure 3.1 (since 3.5) won't? < 1237318302 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it often tries. < 1237318309 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have