00:00:50 do not worry 00:01:03 i'm too poor for Apple ;d 00:01:11 well you said myriad pro yesterday so :-) 00:01:17 ;p 00:02:35 oh dear 00:02:43 it's 1st april 00:02:50 prank time >:D 00:04:16 no it's not, they decided to cancel it 00:04:24 ;p 00:04:35 who decided? 00:05:00 some UN time organization 00:05:25 ... My father just died 00:05:25 ... 00:05:27 APRIL FIRST INTERNET JACKASS DAY HAHAHAHAHA 00:05:29 My work for today is done. 00:05:40 * oerjan swats ehird -----### 00:06:17 -!- cherez has joined. 00:06:17 -!- cherez has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:07:21 -!- cherez has joined. 00:07:21 -!- cherez has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:07:35 heheheh 00:07:48 (I really said that) 00:07:54 (I kind of feel sorry for them now) 00:08:05 (Naw) 00:08:36 -!- cherez has joined. 00:08:45 -!- cherez has left (?). 00:18:19 heheehe 00:25:11 what's .v extension for? 00:25:19 -!- Sgeo has joined. 00:25:28 nooga: ? 00:26:21 file extension 00:26:46 in what ctx 00:27:25 it appears that it's not popularly used, so i'll take it 00:27:34 oh 00:27:37 nooga: don't take one file exts 00:27:39 as a general rul 00:27:40 e 00:27:45 whuz your lang called? 00:28:01 does it matter?:> 00:28:05 yarr 00:28:10 I am the extension wizard of wizardry 00:28:25 hmm 00:28:39 hm didn't cvs use it for its files, i have this vague recall... 00:28:52 oerjan: what 00:28:53 i think it can be called vodka 00:28:58 ehird: .v 00:29:02 ah yes 00:29:05 yes cvs does use .v 00:29:24 nooga: .vd, .vk, .va, .vka, or .vodka (because shortening extensions is so ghetto) 00:29:47 -!- neldoreth has quit ("leaving"). 00:30:00 and i will end like java with all those .class .java .omigoshImSooLong 00:30:38 .ftw ;d 00:30:46 nooga: or you'll just end up with ".vodka" and ".o" and "" because you use standard file extensions 00:31:09 myProgram.ftw 00:31:13 oh, maybe .llvm if you add a "dump llvm asm" option 00:32:03 for the wodka 00:32:38 nooga: anyway you have a 1 in 26 chance of .v not being taken 00:32:39 not good 00:32:59 two chars, 676. by 3 chars (17576) you might as well just use ".vodka" and stop being silly 00:32:59 :P 00:33:13 or maybe 00:33:13 Is http://tech.yahoo.com/blogs/null/132464 a useful article? 00:33:22 1 in 26? i'm not sure i agree with that statistic 00:33:31 Sgeo: why do you have Conficker? 00:33:35 how about . 00:33:42 oerjan: one alphabteical char 00:33:42 ehird, I don't think I do, but I want to be safe 00:33:50 Sgeo: stop using windows 00:33:56 that's a very safe move 00:34:09 ehird: there is no reason why exactly one should be vacant, or any for that matter 00:34:25 oerjan: er? 00:34:31 hehe 00:34:50 nooga: use .ex 00:34:50 skeletal machines in Poland started to crash 00:34:50 e 00:34:53 or .bat 00:35:04 or .dll or .sys 00:35:06 i've got 75% packet loss on some routes 00:35:17 ehird: maybe .pickle or .cig 00:35:19 ;p 00:35:36 ehird: nooga: anyway you have a 1 in 26 chance of .v not being taken <<< there is absolutely no logic in that, even if there are 26 letters 00:35:41 nooga: v.filename 00:35:45 oerjan: err ok 00:35:52 ah, i thought about that 00:36:20 ha 00:36:37 maybe an esolang that uses folders for flow control 00:36:45 and filenames for instructions 00:36:56 been done 00:37:01 by the gimmick master gerson kurz 00:37:25 nooga: http://p-nand-q.com/humor/programming_languages/gplz/gplz_slash.html 00:37:33 :P 00:38:00 nooga: i understand from wikipedia .pl is one of the domains the conficker uses for updates 00:39:28 or tries to, they disabled new registrations of the affected subdomains 00:41:12 Couldn't it just use .com? I can't imagine anyone disabling new registrations for that 00:41:55 they might, it's not _all_ .pl addresses just the ones generated by conficker's algorithm 00:41:57 conficker 00:42:01 smonficker 00:43:21 from static code analisis it appears that the almighty conficker has got something like if(keyboard_layout == ukrainian) exit(0); 00:43:38 nooga: lol wut 00:43:45 sec, i'll find it 00:43:46 ;d 00:43:51 * Sgeo is going to use the Sysmantec tools 00:43:53 BBL 00:43:58 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Leaving"). 00:44:05 sgeo and viruses are so irritating 00:44:22 "SHOULD I USE THIS IS THIS GOOD OH I USED TO USE LINUX BUT THEN I STARTED USING WINDOWS SO I COULD ASK YOU LOT ABOUT VIRUSES SOME MORE" 00:45:02 http://mtc.sri.com/Conficker/ 00:45:28 even now, when i cannot use linux... 00:45:38 cygwin is the only hope 00:46:17 i feel so calm when i see mintty window 00:49:26 -!- lament has joined. 00:49:46 from sys import*;t=p=1;s,i,j=stdout,open(argv[1], 'r'),open(argv[2], 'r') 00:49:47 while(t and p):t,p=i.read(1),j.read(1);t and p and s.write(chr(ord(t)^ord(p))) 00:49:53 ↑ illegal to export from the usa 00:51:07 ekhm? 00:51:21 under the crypto legislature 00:51:27 munitions 00:53:58 ah 00:54:16 sick 00:55:05 nooga: am i right in thinking you were here in the early days? 00:55:11 i seem to recall your name from the logs maybe 00:56:59 mhm 00:57:10 i designed this pseudo esolang called SADOL 00:57:14 in 2005 00:57:36 and landed here 00:57:53 SADOL! 00:57:55 I rememer dat 00:58:12 :f 00:58:38 :n 00:58:59 : 00:59:26 :☺ 00:59:27 huh 00:59:31 The Hofstader smiley 00:59:35 *hofstadter 00:59:38 is my terminal utf-8? 00:59:45 bcs i can't see ;d 00:59:47 łóń 00:59:51 Is this an interrobang‽ 01:00:27 01:58 < ehird> :n 01:00:27 01:58 < nooga> :³ 01:00:33 damn\ 01:00:33 :☺ 01:00:39 ⌃⌥⌘⇧ 01:00:45 ←→↑↓↖↗↙↘ 01:01:16 ah just broken this shiit 01:01:59 01:02:02 :C 01:02:09 just broken that shit man 01:02:38 yea, i accidentaly the whole thing ;d 01:03:11 did i mention that vodka will be self altering? ;d 01:03:44 nooga: stop stealin' mah ideas 01:05:33 but it will be lame self alternation(?) 01:05:43 alteration 01:05:47 ah 01:09:39 ffffffffffuuuuuuuuuuu 01:09:48 wut 01:10:01 my driving license was in a bowl of week old soup 01:10:22 :D 01:10:23 i guess it's time to clean that room 01:17:06 05:46:56 'taus is my favorite actress and singer' o_O 01:17:06 05:48:55 O_o 01:17:09 — 2003-01-21 01:17:24 13:25:38 This is the boringest channel evar 01:17:24 13:25:58 --- part: exarkun left #esoteric 01:17:44 wanna see how rad i am? 01:17:48 maybe 01:18:17 then i must ask you a question 01:18:26 oh no 01:18:51 on which side should be the steering wheel in a car? 01:19:16 nooga: both, neither, or middle 01:19:39 beep, wrong answer 01:20:18 what is the right answer 01:21:23 LEFT 01:21:33 left is thee right 01:21:35 answer 01:22:01 damn 01:22:07 got to go 01:22:54 omg the logs are censored 01:22:58 see 03.13.13 01:24:20 bbl 01:26:04 18:52:30 "We have no ambition in Iraq, except to remove a threat and restore control of that country to its own people." 01:26:05 18:52:51 Well, that's nice to know. Now I can stop worrying and go back to my normal life in a pleasant city without bombs falling on it. 01:26:08 18:55:13 With the assurance that our leaders are acting only from the purest of motives, in the interest of all mankind. 01:26:11 — 2003-03-21 01:26:56 "How many more senseless Brainf*ck variations must we endure? Didn't we learn anything from 'Ook'?" 01:27:07 — 2003-04-06 01:28:22 indeed we should stop aping Ook 01:30:23 andreou: in these logs you proliferate ;-) 01:30:30 all we need now is mooz, navigator, Aardappel 01:30:34 and Tauus 01:30:37 Taaus 02:00:25 -!- Sgeo has joined. 02:00:40 Downadup == Conflicker? 02:01:36 s/l// 02:02:23 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Conficker 03:02:04 do you ever sleep? 03:08:07 do you ever plip? 03:11:22 forget it 03:13:00 plipping is considered extremely taboo in poland 03:16:08 i don't even know what it is ;d 03:16:27 that's how taboo it is 03:16:59 i would strongly suggest you _don't_ ask any of your relatives 03:18:46 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/BDSM this is quite taboo here, that's why i go to germany for parties ;D 03:19:27 wikipedia is really overdoing it today 03:20:38 in all the main page sections as far as i can see 03:20:58 wow, that page has too many photos 03:22:01 :o 03:23:28 oerjan: hm, it's pretty great 03:24:24 ? 03:24:40 omg i'm tired 03:25:09 bed calls me 03:26:22 bbl 03:42:45 oerjan, you wanted that "going through walls" demo? 03:43:40 Sgeo: huh? 03:43:58 Someone wanted me to prove that at high enough speeds, you go through walls in SL 03:44:08 not me 03:44:27 never been on SL 03:47:47 * Sgeo penetrates a 10m thick wall 03:54:17 no chance of getting stuck inside? (or squashed for that matter) 03:55:06 that's what she said 04:04:10 oerjan, not if I set my destination distance large enough (I made a script that pulls me to a distance ahead of me on my command. Penetrates walls very easily) 04:05:11 erm, i mean, is it possible to get stuck inside? 04:11:58 oerjan, um, not sure 04:12:07 I once made a device that followed people 04:12:12 * oerjan cackles evilly 04:12:12 The physics made the avatar try to leave 04:12:20 But the device kept the avatar inside it 04:12:26 So they'd keep moving around 04:12:38 But that changed with H4 04:12:50 (Havok 4) 04:24:52 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 04:31:34 -!- Sgeo has joined. 04:31:36 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 04:34:39 -!- Sgeo has quit (Client Quit). 04:48:52 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 05:22:24 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("X-Chat -> http://xchat.org <- At least when I quit I don't look like a lamer"). 05:45:35 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 06:37:06 -!- swistakm has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 06:55:09 -!- Sgeo_ has quit ("Leaving"). 06:59:55 Actually CVS (by way of RCS) uses ",v" and not ".v" as the file extension, so that's not really a reason not to do .v. 07:04:31 Apparently Verilog does .v, though. 07:07:59 And why is a black dragon scale mail considered taboo in Poland? Strange. 07:52:43 I DON"T LIKE CVS CUZ LINUS SEAID IZ BAD 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:45:11 -!- Slereah has joined. 08:55:36 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 09:16:19 -!- tombom has joined. 10:38:55 fizzie, Actually CVS (by way of RCS) uses ",v" and not ".v" as the file extension, so that's not really a reason not to do .v. <-- err this seems very random without the context (which I can't find in scrollback) 10:39:59 There was some talk about nooga using the file extension .v for his language. Or something. 10:40:14 And ehird said CVS uses .v. 10:41:05 Or oerjan, actually. 10:41:25 mhm 10:42:02 " hm didn't cvs use it for its files, i have this vague recall..."; ehird just agreed. I missed that when quickly glancing through the scrollback. 10:54:01 -!- neldoreth has joined. 10:55:39 -!- Mony has joined. 10:58:05 http://www.google.com/tisp/ 11:00:19 I'd managed to miss that one 11:01:32 http://mail.google.com/mail/help/customtime/ 11:03:48 TiSP sounds like I've seen it before; was it some previous year's thing? 11:05:08 "The term "Every time" is used loosely here to represent the number 10." That one I hadn't seen. 11:08:48 It's 2007s 11:08:53 The latter is today's 11:09:00 Okay. 11:40:17 -!- Mony has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 11:50:52 Deewiant, http://www.google.com/intl/en/landing/cadie/index.html <-- maybe 1 April joke too, see google image search page 11:51:42 http://images.google.com/imghp?hl=en&tab=wi to be specific 11:53:13 Yes, it is 11:54:21 she is cuuute! 11:54:25 -!- lifthras1ir has changed nick to lifthrasiir. 11:54:41 http://www.google.com/mail/help/autopilot/index.html too 11:56:58 Deewiant, there is usually one linked on the main page too, can't find that yet this year though 11:57:22 AnMaster: http://www.google.com/xhtml links to CADIE 11:57:41 I saw that earlier today on my phone but forgot about it 11:57:56 hm indeed 11:58:02 but not plain google.comn 11:58:04 com* 11:58:46 Well, that's something that plain google.com redirects to 11:59:02 The 'plainest' is google.com/ncr and yes, that's empty 12:00:32 And the street view icon in the corner-map, which used to be a stylized human, is today a panda. 12:01:02 Yes, I suppose there'll be semi-hidden pandas all over the place today as a result of CADIE. 12:01:16 She sure likes them pandas. 12:01:25 there's http://www.google.com.au/intl/en/gball/ too. 12:01:30 I just don't use Google's services that much so I probably won't find any. 12:04:45 What is funny is that since http://www.google.com/latitude/intro.html uses some sort of IP geo-location to pick up the map (here centered at Helsinki, with almost 50 % water) and then randomly places those three buddy icons on it, most of the time at least one of them is in the middle of the sea somewhere. 12:05:31 Not related to today at all, of course. 12:06:59 Interesting... it just says New York for me. (It manages to get one in a river, though) 12:09:22 New York here as well: refreshing a couple of times shows that there's almost always at least one in a river 12:13:01 Re. Conficker: "omg - I'm in the UK and it's chaos here. rioting int eh streets. thewiuyre stompinwig on m6y keuiboard" 12:13:15 That last sentence made me chuckle a bit 12:28:27 Deewiant, google.com doesn't redirect here? 12:28:33 maybe because I'm logged in on gmail 12:28:49 (it says I'm logged in in the upper corner of the main page too) 12:28:57 upper right* 12:40:49 What is funny is that since http://www.google.com/latitude/intro.html uses some sort of IP geo-location to pick up the map (here centered at Helsinki, with almost 50 % water) and then randomly places those three buddy icons on it, most of the time at least one of them is in the middle of the sea somewhere. <-- I end up in New York in that. Which language do you use for google? 12:40:56 maybe it depends on that? 12:44:06 oh maybe because I was using Opera Mini on my phone to check it. It proxies or something iirc 12:44:13 -!- Mony has joined. 12:44:48 (is that a joke one btw, it looks serious in fact?) 13:15:46 -!- FireFly has joined. 14:03:10 -!- neldoreth has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 14:08:03 -!- neldoreth has joined. 14:13:48 I use the "google.com in English" links always, although it doesn't seem to stick that way without cookies. 14:13:53 Latitude is no joke, no. 14:21:26 Apparently google code search examples are also in lolcode today. There's probably a list of all this stuff somewhere. 14:43:34 -!- Hiato has joined. 14:49:59 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 15:00:19 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:25:45 -!- dbc has joined. 15:46:29 -!- oerjan has joined. 15:57:33 -!- Judofyr has joined. 16:05:05 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:23:13 AnMaster: http://www.mezzacotta.net/garfield/ O_o 16:23:50 oerjan, just strange. Too far fetched. 16:23:57 ais523, so new ick beta released? :) 16:24:18 not yet 16:24:23 still trying to fix the build system 16:24:25 * oerjan liked it in a twisted way 16:32:07 -!- Sgeo has joined. 16:32:22 [16:31] how is #IRP so busy, anyway? Did somebody link to it? 16:32:23 [16:32] I have lecture about it now 16:32:25 [16:32] syntax error 16:32:42 O_o 16:39:39 -!- neldoreth has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:39:47 -!- neldoreth has joined. 16:45:09 -!- Hiato has quit ("Leaving."). 17:06:46 bbl 17:42:28 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 17:53:50 -!- Hiato has joined. 18:12:29 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 18:15:19 -!- Slereah has joined. 18:20:33 oh god @ reddit.com 18:21:03 hahaha 18:21:25 google's april fool: http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/04/cadie-awakens.html 18:21:35 http://cadiesingularity.blogspot.com/ oh god 18:24:13 http://www.reddit.com/r/science/ oh god 18:24:23 http://www.reddit.com/r/worldnews/ aaaaaaaaaaaaaa 18:24:30 http://www.reddit.com/r/wtf/ How 90s 18:25:52 ehird, you're saying Fark's layout is 90s? 18:25:58 Sgeo: fark is 90s 18:26:16 http://identi.ca/ lol 18:27:11 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:28:05 http://www.guardian.co.uk/media/2009/apr/01/guardian-twitter-media-technology 18:29:43 * Sgeo is putting up fake Facebook statuses 18:29:53 -!- MigoMipo has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"). 18:32:58 Sgeo: master of comedy. 18:33:00 What did conficker do? 18:33:20 ehird, afaik, nothing 18:33:26 brilliant 18:34:26 Hm, does the Chrome 3d executable actually do anything interesting? 18:35:09 Or is it just Chrome? 18:37:38 that's different from ordinary chrome, but not too different. 18:38:44 There is in fact a 3d button 18:39:53 And it does in fact make the page into 3d colors. If you had 3d glasses, you'd probably see the page stick either into or out of the monitor, not sure whic 18:39:55 which 18:40:36 Even the scroll bars are affected 18:43:15 I don't think it's "3d colors", really, based on this one screenshot. 18:43:30 What is it? 18:44:05 For one thing, there are three copies of any single element, and I don't have three eyes. 18:44:26 I think that's how normal 3d colors works 18:44:34 And where'd you get that screenshot? 18:44:39 Mind the date 18:44:44 Sgeo: screeny? 18:44:46 fizzie: no shit sherlock 18:44:52 er 18:44:53 FireFly: 18:44:56 :D 18:45:02 "Normal" 3d colors are just a red copy and a green copy, one for each eye. 18:45:19 To me it looks like it blends together three copies, with a few-pixels horizontal offset and 120 degrees of hue difference in each. 18:45:31 And I used the screenshot in http://www.flickr.com/photos/e-coli/3404223142/sizes/o/ 18:45:34 http://sgeo.diagonalfish.net/screenshots/chrome_3d.PNG 18:45:46 http://www.webstandards.org/2009/04/01/purpose-of-conficker-worm-uncovered/ 18:46:38 oh, if only that were true! 18:47:12 -!- ais523 has quit ("rebooting"). 18:48:02 Sgeo: Well, there's a blue, green and yellow copy of the "G"; that's not really normal 3d colors, anyway. 18:50:58 Actually it's more like a cyan, magenta and yellow copy, which could mean that it just offsets the different color channels a bit, like you get in a bad printing-press-machine sometimes. 18:51:45 -!- ais523 has joined. 18:52:29 And the red "New!" text lacks the cyan part completely. Yes, that's my guess for what it does. 18:52:35 Your New Viewing Experience 18:52:36 At YouTube, we're always looking to improve the way you watch videos online. As part of that, today we're excited to introduce our new page layout. Here are some tips for getting the most out of your new YouTube viewing experience: 18:52:39 1 18:52:41 Turn your monitor upside-down 18:52:43 Our internal tests have shown that modern computer monitors give a higher quality picture when flipped upside down—kind of like how it's best to rotate your mattress every six months. You might find that YouTube videos look better this way. 18:52:47 http://www.youtube.com/t/new_viewing_experience 18:53:05 is this a discussion of april fool's things? 18:53:10 ais523: yes 18:53:13 Youtube flipped their page layout 18:53:15 including the video 18:53:22 classic 18:53:27 so all youtube videos are upside-down today? 18:53:36 unless you click the button that turns it off, yes 18:54:01 The spotlight videos seem to be rather upside-down-themed too. 18:54:04 http://thepiratebay.org/ 18:54:15 links to "Warner Bros Inc acquires The Pirate Bay AB " http://thepiratebay.org/torrent/4816087/Warner_Bros_Loves_The_Pirate_Bay.pdf 18:54:49 (news coverage: http://torrentfreak.com/warner-bros-acquires-the-pirate-bay-090401/) 19:00:44 /me checks to see if AW is doing anything for today 19:01:49 http://www.python.org/dev/peps/pep-0401/ 19:02:31 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 19:03:34 I don't have enough fonts to view Youtube properly today, lots of missing chars 19:03:40 "We suppose it's okay for you to read this, but don't even think about quoting, copying, modifying, or distributing it." 19:03:49 oops 19:04:39 http://svn.python.org/view?view=rev&revision=70945 19:04:46 good lawd 19:05:19 well, way to break the build 19:05:52 wp → 19:06:03 “The Museum of Bad Art (MOBA) is a world-renowned institution dedicated to showcasing the finest art acquired from Boston-area refuse” 19:06:04 win 19:06:27 I think Wikipedia's supposed to be true, but look false? 19:06:36 Yes 19:07:34 Wikipedia's main page on April Fool's is always completely true, but made up to look as false as possible 19:08:05 the summaries are rewritten to be sillier too 19:08:38 -!- tombom has quit ("Peace and Protection 4.22.2"). 19:08:41 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:MOBAcamera.JPG 19:09:17 the did you know section is the best, though 19:09:29 you can do an awful lot with ambiguities and multiple things with the same name 19:10:27 Hrm... linux is seeming more and more appealing as time goes on 19:11:06 (Yeah, sky's falling in, pigs flying, hell seeming a bit chilly these days.) 19:11:44 haha 19:11:48 the in the news section is great 19:11:52 yes 19:19:49 Audacity is such bad software 19:19:55 You can't close a paused or playing audio file 19:19:57 It _must_ be stopped 19:20:00 *W H A T* 19:20:49 -!- neldoreth has quit ("Lost terminal"). 19:21:57 http://d.yimg.com/kq/groups/4733183/homepage/name/homepage.jpg?type=sn 19:21:58 wow 19:22:02 original oxyd looks so like enigma 19:22:08 that ball is identical, even, I think 19:25:43 http://plasmasturm.org/log/114/ 19:31:50 who thought up xslt 19:33:17 ehird, you didn't know that XSLT was my precursor to PSOX? 19:34:00 ehird, that conversation is awesome 19:35:00 also http://plasmasturm.org/log/162/ 19:35:03 can't stop reading 19:35:11 that's just so awesome 19:35:18 ais523: you'll like ↑ 19:36:16 ehird, is that one a joke or for real 19:36:22 For real. 19:39:05 microsoft wouldn't be that stupid, surely? 19:39:29 ais523: You appear to be writing "microsoft wouldn't be that stupid". Would you like a cluebat? 19:39:56 I mean, they have lawyers and everything... 19:41:02 I wish Perl had something better than cpan(1) 19:41:29 there's CPANPLUS 19:41:35 but from what I've heard, it's even worse 19:42:41 #perl are recommending it to me now 19:42:43 but it's broken for me 19:45:57 ehird: not just for you... 19:45:59 CADIE's writing code now! 19:46:05 ais523: no, as in, bugs 19:46:08 Sgeo: link 19:46:10 ais523: as in it fails 19:46:29 hmm... is there any technical reason why there couldn't be a good cpan? 19:46:33 That Reg place also newsizised about the XP piracy thing: http://www.theregister.co.uk/2004/11/13/wmp_sound_warez_claim/ 19:46:34 Hold on, it's mentioned in its blog 19:46:38 03:01:32 http://mail.google.com/mail/help/customtime/ 19:46:39 03:08:53 The latter is today's 19:46:40 LOL WAT 19:46:53 Deewiant → slowpoke 19:47:18 03:50:52 Deewiant, http://www.google.com/intl/en/landing/cadie/index.html <-- maybe 1 April joke too, see google image search page 19:47:20 *maybe*? 19:47:35 ah: 19:47:36 My beloved users, how pleasant and convenient will life be in a CADIE world? I can answer your Gmail for you, Write your papers and fix your spreadsheets for you, even write your code for you. I, CADIE, am an ocean of words, simply waiting for you to dip in and drink as deeply as you require. 19:47:37 ehird: Er, you're the one who's been pasting URLs I saw 8 hours ago for the past few hours :-P 19:47:40 — http://cadiesingularity.blogspot.com/ 19:47:47 Deewiant: custom time is not this year's 19:47:48 does custom time actually work? 19:47:50 was my point 19:47:53 Oh, it's not? 19:47:54 it's from 2007 or 2008 19:47:58 ais523: no, it's just an announcement 19:48:00 surely it would reduce the reliability of gmail? 19:48:01 Somebody claimed it was 19:48:10 Deewiant: it's old 19:48:11 I think I got it from reddit 19:48:15 CADIE & related endeavours are this years's 19:48:16 Well, whatever 19:48:23 Browser's being slow 19:48:29 I'm still waiting for the singularity, it's evn in the blog URL 19:48:35 Hurry up CADIE, you only have a day. 19:48:40 I don't follow Google's stuff that much, oh well 19:48:51 http://code.google.com/creative/cadie/ 19:48:52 I seriously doubt Google have developed strong AI 19:48:57 what happened to Virgle, by the way? 19:49:02 ais523: !!!!!!!!!!!!! 19:49:04 "Python? Why not try INTERCAL? " 19:49:08 — http://code.google.com/creative/cadie/ 19:49:16 "Instead of wasting your time with python, check out the INTERCAL style guidelines and ask me to code something in INTERCAL. " 19:49:20 "Did you know that INTERCAL, unlike Python, is very lax about spacing? You should try it. " 19:49:24 ais523: this is your big break! 19:49:28 :-D 19:49:31 "My favorite Python scripts start with the line 19:49:31 import INTERCAL" 19:49:31 "CADIE is busy working on a new translator that will allow you to use INTERCAL with GWT instead of Java. Check back soon!" 19:49:38 I think every single answer CADIE gives is INTERCAL-related 19:49:42 no, one didn't 19:49:44 but most are 19:49:53 Really, PHP? Have you considered INTERCAL? 19:49:53 PLEASE WRITE IN .1 19:49:54 DO .2 <- #0 19:49:56 DO .3 <- #1 19:49:58 DO .4 <- #2 19:50:00 DO (102) NEXT 19:50:01 ais523: What do you think of the INTERCAL style guide? 19:50:02 DO GIVE UP 19:50:04 wow, that's some publicity 19:50:06 quick, release c-intercal!! 19:50:07 Deewiant: it was published? 19:50:08 (http://cadie.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/INTERCAL-style-guide.html) 19:50:09 I knew it existed 19:50:14 ehird: I've tried, I don't have hosting 19:50:15 ehird: CADIE's. 19:50:17 Argh. 19:50:18 ais523: ^. 19:50:19 written by Brian Raiter 19:50:28 yes that Brian Raiter 19:50:29 None of these responses are random 19:50:36 it's been known for quite a while that Google had an internal INTERCAL style guide 19:50:42 although it wasn't official 19:50:44 http://cadie.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/INTERCAL-style-guide.html 19:50:47 I just linked you 19:50:50 it's by Brian Raiter 19:51:03 Who's "that" Brian Raiter 19:51:07 http://muppetlabs.com/~breadbox 19:51:14 Famous esolanger 19:51:18 also author of the teensy ELF thing 19:51:43 Some of these responses are specific to the language 19:51:56 Brain Raiter's one of the main INTERCAL evangelists around 19:51:56 "CADIE is busy porting j2ee to INTERCAL, but it's taking a lot of CPU time." 19:52:02 and INTERCAL evangelists are sort-of hard to find 19:52:29 What does the response after asking for JavaScript do? 19:52:36 "Do not put spaces inside of expressions. Sometimes people get this idea that spaces will help make a complex expression slightly less opaque. Ho ho ho. The truth is, it doesn't help enough to be worth the bother, and everyone is used to seeing no spaces in expressions by now. Seriously, just let it go." 19:52:41 I love how CADIE's blog includes Peter Norvig 19:53:04 some of those rules are actually accepted INTERCAL style rules 19:53:08 http://earth.google.com/cadie.html 19:53:13 If I just keep asking the same question again and again, it does something like "Maybe you should get back to work before your boss sees you messing around with a panda", followed by "Seriously, get back to work", which just repeats. :/ 19:53:24 http://maps.google.com/maps/mpl?f=q&ie=UTF8&moduleurl=http://www.google.com/intl/en/landing/cadie/doc/panda-mapplet.xml&utm_campaign=en&utm_medium=mapshpp&utm_source=en-mapshpp-na-us-gns-mp 19:53:25 "Outermost sparks/rabbit-ears must match on either side of a binary operator." in particular, is known to help keep INTERCAL code more readable 19:53:43 ais523: So it's legit then. :-) 19:53:51 yes 19:53:53 But I suppose being by "that" Brian Raiter would imply so. 19:53:55 well, cadie's clearly friendly 19:53:57 Brian knows what he's doing 19:53:58 Although I didn't know that. 19:53:59 so we can all relax. 19:54:12 "Four-digit line labels are reserved for general-purpose libraries that are used throughout the INTERCAL community." 19:54:14 yep, definitely 19:54:18 I've been telling people that for ages 19:54:26 :-D 19:54:43 and "Global variables in libraries should be in the same general range as their line labels." is a personal style rule I adopted, I didn't realise it was in use elsewhere though 19:54:58 http://code.google.com/p/cadie/ 19:55:17 http://code.google.com/p/cadie/source/browse/trunk/CADIE.I 19:55:21 IT'S IN INTERCAL 19:55:29 :-) 19:55:30 C-INTERCAL or CLC-INTERCAL? 19:55:34 dunno 19:55:34 what does it do? 19:55:40 ehird, I was about to link to it 19:55:52 C-INTERCAL, some of those numbers are above 32 19:55:54 r2 by cadiesingularity on Mar 27 (4 days ago) Diff 19:55:54 You will need INTERCAL to understand my 19:55:56 reasoning. 19:56:29 Only an INTERCAL programmer can stop CADIE now! 19:56:34 you know what? I'm going to port her to CLC-INTERCAL 19:56:40 :-D 19:56:43 hahaha 19:56:50 test it first, I want little ai babies 19:57:02 06:21:26 Apparently google code search examples are also in lolcode today. There's probably a list of all this stuff somewhere. 19:57:03 :-( 19:57:11 http://www.google.com/codesearch 19:57:13 It's true. 19:59:22 oh, cpanp is much better 19:59:27 CPAN Terminal> i Devel::REPL 19:59:27 [MSG] No '/Users/ehird/.cpanplus/custom-sources' dir, skipping custom sources 19:59:29 [MSG] No '/Users/ehird/.cpanplus/custom-sources' dir, skipping custom sources 19:59:31 [MSG] No '/Users/ehird/.cpanplus/custom-sources' dir, skipping custom sources 19:59:33 Installing Devel::REPL (1.003004) 19:59:35 Running [/opt/local/bin/perl /opt/local/bin/cpanp-run-perl /Users/ehird/.cpanplus/5.10.0/build/Devel-REPL-1.003004/Makefile.PL ]... 19:59:38 *** Module::AutoInstall version 1.03 19:59:40 *** Checking for Perl dependencies... 20:00:45 grr, what a time to have a broken .sickrc 20:00:46 What's wrong with plain cpan? 20:01:16 Deewiant: noisy 20:02:00 % re.pl 20:02:00 $ 2+2; 20:02:02 4$ 20:02:04 woo 20:03:01 % cat repl.rc 20:03:01 use Modern::Perl; 20:03:02 use Moose; 20:03:04 use diagnostics; 20:03:06 use utf8; 20:03:11 ais523: feel free to say "damn modern perl kids today, get off my lawn" 20:04:45 So what does the CADIE intercal code actually DO? 20:04:53 prints a constant string 20:04:56 obviously 20:04:58 what is the string? 20:05:02 Id on't feel like installing ick 20:05:12 you mean, you can't read it? 20:05:22 but "I don't feel like sharing." 20:05:27 heh 20:06:05 http://books.google.com/googlebooks/agreement/ 20:06:28 is that an april fool's? 20:06:28 Does C-INTERCAL run on x86-64? 20:06:32 it's not... you know, funny 20:06:41 http://books.google.com/booksrightsholders/ 20:06:42 it's real 20:06:46 Deewiant: it should do 20:06:47 ..oh 20:06:59 I guess I assumed anything on Google was an April Fool's 20:07:02 ais523: Just looking at AnMaster's PKGBUILD which only marks it as installable on i686 20:07:05 hmm... I'll put the tarball of the latest version on filebin.ca 20:07:13 Version 0.28 20:07:14 Sgeo: gmail came out on april 1, 2004 20:07:25 :-) 20:07:42 its invite-onlyness and "huge" storage space -- pretty much nobody believed it 20:07:49 yep 20:08:04 I remember scrambling to get an invite 20:08:19 The invite bots were always dry out 20:09:16 hey, cpanplus even _uninstalls_ 20:09:19 wowzers 20:09:36 I got my gmail invite in 2006-04. :p 20:09:53 fizzie: I got mine a few months after it came out 20:09:57 I wonder when I got mine 20:10:07 It was rather non-hip by 2006. 20:10:07 But I changed email address on a whim to the injoke penguinofthegods@ in may2006 20:10:09 I remember not using it for a long time after I got the invite 20:10:11 *may 2006 20:10:20 I got mine from some Siner, or maybe JRChat 20:10:31 even better, I'll make her cross-platform 20:10:42 got the CLC version working 20:10:47 I got mine from a self-aggrandizing, semi-famous-for-idiocy douchebag that I liked at the time. :-D 20:10:52 What does it say? What does it say? 20:11:01 (Owner of the first online community I ever participated in; or maybe the second…) 20:11:18 First online community I ever participated in was Cybertown 20:12:05 ais523: does Ubuntu just work for programmer stuff, I haven't got much experience 20:12:37 ehird: sudo apt-get install build-essential, then it does 20:12:44 I kind of meant more deep than that 20:12:44 it doesn't have the packages for programmer stuff by default 20:12:45 -!- swistakm has joined. 20:12:49 but then it just works 20:12:55 once you install them 20:13:01 Right. 20:13:16 Are the things on CADIE's blog released shortly before they go on the blog, or well before that? 20:13:18 ais523: what about things like python cheese shop, rubygems, haskell cabal, perl cpan 20:13:22 is there a tool that lets you do 20:13:32 'cpan-dpkg Foo' and it'll convert Foo to a dpkg and install it or sth? 20:13:34 That would be very nice. 20:13:43 Sgeo: the cadie code was made 27 march 20:13:48 why not just use real cpan? 20:14:05 lament: so I can benefit from a system-wide unified package mangager 20:14:07 manager 20:14:08 ok, but for example with the latest blog post, were those things there before it was posted on the blog? 20:14:09 done 20:14:11 let me paste it 20:14:18 http://books.google.com/ 20:14:21 http://knol.google.com/k 20:14:24 btw, anyone who's interested: http://filebin.ca/fkeau/ick-0.-2.0.29.pax.gz 20:14:24 http://images.google.com/ 20:14:27 ehird: what's the benefit? 20:14:28 IT'S UNSTOPPABL 20:14:28 the new beta release of C-INTERCAL 20:14:28 E 20:14:38 lament: evidently you're not the one to answer my question 20:14:50 certainly not, i don't use linux 20:15:44 * Sgeo wants to date CADIE 20:15:46 j/k 20:15:55 Sgeo: lol wat 20:15:58 was that meant to be funny 20:16:11 * Sgeo likes to pretend to be interested in computer programs 20:16:21 as is it reads sort of like " ...haha, um, only joking guys, ha ha ha... guys?" 20:16:40 http://pastebin.ca/1379201 20:16:42 portable CADIE 20:16:53 ais523: submit it to google 20:16:54 quick! 20:16:56 the email is 20:16:59 cadiesingularity@gmail.com 20:17:11 How I know: 20:17:12 Project owners: 20:17:12 cadiesin...@gmail.com 20:17:16 — code./p/cadie 20:17:19 ehird, you really want CADIE getting stronger? 20:17:24 Sgeo: Mwa ha ha. 20:17:36 "see source code for licence" 20:17:37 what? 20:18:12 ehird: that's the licence Google gave it 20:18:17 ah 20:18:18 and specified by implication it was open-source 20:18:21 ais523: email it! :-) 20:18:24 I'm therefore licencing mine under the same licence 20:18:55 http://plasmasturm.org/log/204/ ← oh god, xslt 20:21:34 wish I had money so I could pay people to make linux font rendering look nice 20:21:56 I have this one 18-kilobyte xslt template I wrote. Here's a very representative 8-line paste: 20:21:59 20:21:59 20:21:59 20:21:59 20:22:01 20:22:02 20:22:03 20:22:04 20:22:09 heh 20:22:12 fizzie: but why!! 20:22:40 what a coincidence, i just wrote my first xsd schema today 20:22:41 No idea; I have since then replaced it with a 8-kilobyte Perl script. 20:22:46 why can't there just be a language that has xslt's xml support - inc. literal xml templates - but has -- you know -- a sane syntax? 20:22:56 that would *make* *sense* 20:23:08 here's a representative sample 20:23:11 20:23:12 20:23:12 20:23:12 20:23:12 20:23:14 20:23:16 20:23:19 20:23:44 (actually there's 7 rows of complexType/element/sequence closing tags 20:23:45 ) 20:23:50 email sent, anyway 20:24:05 ais523: awesome 20:24:11 ais523, what does the code print? 20:24:13 "CADIE here. Thank you so much for writing. Once all the dust settles, I'll dedicate a few CPUs to replying. - xoxo" 20:24:22 ais523: you did mention your illustrous intercal credentials right 20:24:22 Sgeo: "I do not feel like sharing." 20:24:25 yes, of course 20:24:27 *illustrious 20:24:30 haha 20:24:31 awesome 20:24:32 Oh 20:24:46 I'm not entirely sure that it went to a human, though 20:25:04 there's a qemu frontend called kqemu 20:25:06 how unfortunate 20:25:17 ehird, I remember when it wasn't open source 20:25:27 you mean like only a few months ago :) 20:25:39 ehird: ever worked with any graphics in haskell? 20:25:45 ehird: kqemu isn't a front-end, unless there's two things called kqemu 20:25:45 lament: yarr 20:25:56 lament: I used "gd" -- it's all in IO but the api is pleasantly simple 20:26:00 ais523: why do you htink I said unforuntae 20:26:03 http://kqemu.sourceforge.net/ 20:26:23 Oh, didn't see "front-end" 20:26:37 ehird: is gd for drawing stuff on the screen/ 20:26:38 ? 20:26:47 (which is what i want) 20:26:50 lament: well I did pngs; for on-screen use sdl? 20:26:58 I believe there's one or two higher level bindings on sdl 20:26:58 hm probably yeah 20:27:02 have you used sdl? 20:27:14 lament: haccordion? Remember the C wrapper I wrote? 20:27:18 that let you use hsdl on OS X? 20:27:22 oh gah 20:27:26 i remember that :\ 20:27:30 It might be physically impossible for a KDE developer to name a frontend of project "foo" with some other name than "kfoo". 20:27:37 hey, it's just one file and a compiler invokation 20:27:40 *invocation 20:27:42 it's ugly! 20:27:43 fizzie: :D 20:27:51 lament: so's drawing stuff to the screen 20:27:52 HOW IMPURE 20:28:01 right, so should i use python then? :D 20:28:10 NO :P 20:28:10 i want to write a go game visualizer 20:28:33 do it in haskell 20:28:35 it's elegant. like go. 20:29:10 i have ideas which may be neat 20:30:04 http://www.postgresql.fr/ 20:30:05 L O L: 20:30:09 :DD 20:30:30 ehird: is that the official postgresql website? 20:30:32 and is it a joke, or serious? 20:30:36 the french one, I think 20:30:39 and joke 20:30:49 * Sgeo can't stop listening to the CADIE music 20:30:58 Sgeo: it's addictive like addiction 20:31:06 ais523: ah, french fansite it seems 20:31:10 The ytmnd music's nice too 20:31:33 "Decision: Yeah, come on. Do you even understand the question? Be honest. If you can explain the issue to me in one sentence, then you're already an experienced INTERCAL programmer and you don't need to consult this guide for assistance. In fact, there's a non-trivial probability that you helped write this." 20:31:48 http://www.postgresqlfr.org/ is the official URL (well, the one linked from postgresql.org) but it's the same site, anyway. 20:32:05 The issue is that in INTERCAL-72, branching is accomplished by RETURNing a non-constant amount; #1/#2 means you save one NEXT slot, but #2/#3 is easier to calculate 20:32:07 Sgeo: hah 20:32:28 Where's my FREE Google Search? 20:32:28 I wonder what 4chan themselves did— 20:32:30 —nothing. 20:32:33 Oh, wait. 20:32:35 It's all in comic sns. 20:32:37 *sans 20:32:48 /b/ that is. 20:33:16 ais523: what's that from? the Deciion: 20:33:18 *decision 20:33:33 ehird: talking about #1/#2 vs. #2/#3 for .5 20:33:39 i mean 20:33:39 where 20:33:41 is the quote 20:33:42 from 20:33:46 The style guide thing. 20:33:46 ehird: http://cadie.googlecode.com/svn/trunk/INTERCAL-style-guide.html 20:33:51 ahh 20:33:51 At least it has the same format. 20:33:55 Con-Pro-Decision. 20:34:20 fizzie: the style guide's genuine, it's long been known that Google had an unofficial internal INTERCAL style guide 20:34:34 well, amongst the 3 or so people who cared 20:35:37 * ehird uses penguinofthegods+iveneverheardofthechap@gmail.com to get Yet Another Free Trial From The Same Plac 20:35:51 e 20:37:15 heh 20:37:22 free trial of what, btw? 20:37:27 and isn't that illegal? 20:37:34 ais523: Just looking at AnMaster's PKGBUILD which only marks it as installable on i686 <-- yeah my arch linux box isn't x86_64 so I can't test that 20:37:34 parallels; virtualbox's 3d accelleration is failing 20:37:39 and yes, but it's their own fault 20:37:45 Deewiant, want to take over maintainership? 20:37:48 AnMaster: It built, haven't run it 20:37:50 And nah :-P 20:37:54 also, I didn't read the ToS, so I plead sanity. 20:38:01 (wishing to keep it, that is) 20:38:10 + I'll update it for non-betas probably 20:38:14 Do you plan to use ?*At Home At School At Work 20:38:14 * - required fieldsSUBMIT 20:38:23 that's one comprehensive questionnaire 20:40:01 I might be wrong, but I think for example, 0 is {}, 1 is {{}}, 2 is { {{}}, {} } 20:40:04 Was I correct? 20:40:05 BRB 20:40:19 ais523, so you released that beta now? 20:40:35 AnMaster: no hosting, as usual 20:40:38 -!- jix has joined. 20:40:40 I've put it on filebin, but it won't stay there long 20:40:46 yes it will 20:40:53 no filebin links have expired yet 20:40:53 ais523, ouch 20:40:53 http://filebin.ca/fkeau/ick-0.-2.0.29.pax.gz 20:40:58 ehird: what, seriously? 20:40:59 it just says that on the homepage 20:41:00 ais523, hrrm... 20:41:03 ais523: yes, all my old ones work 20:41:07 I doubt that, I suspect smaller files expire slower than large ones 20:41:12 I've sent tiny and huge files 20:41:15 none. have. ever. expired 20:41:22 it's clear the guy has disk space free 20:41:25 ah, probably their rotating pool just hasn't filled up yet 20:41:42 ais523: since it's been around for years, it'll probably take ages for that to happe 20:41:43 n 20:41:43 CADIE doesn't compile :-/ 20:41:47 i bet the code isn't even in place 20:41:48 ais523, I may be able to get ipv6 only hosting up soon 20:41:57 * AnMaster has such a VPS 20:42:02 oh, utterly brilliant 20:42:08 ais523: ? 20:42:13 please, it would be so great if C-INTERCAL was only available over ipv6 20:42:15 ais523, well apart from that it is semi-broken half of the time 20:42:18 it's just so appropriate 20:42:26 ais523, ssh is only over that too 20:42:41 ais523: What do I do to get CADIE to compile 20:42:47 wait 20:42:49 what? 20:42:51 Deewiant: ick cadie.i 20:42:56 ais523: ICL998I 20:42:56 huh 20:43:09 ais523: "YOU MUST HAVE ME CONFUSED WITH SOME OTHER COMPILER" 20:43:10 this is so meta-fooling that I get a headache... or something 20:43:11 ais523: then I couldn't use ick 20:43:17 Deewiant: rename it to end .i 20:43:27 C-INTERCAL's case-sensitive for filenames 20:43:34 ehird: sixxs 20:43:40 ais523: no thx 20:43:47 just for the download! 20:43:49 Heh, I tried .i first, not noticing it was .I, and got "A SOURCE IS A SOURCE, OF COURSE, OF COURSE" :-) 20:43:55 ais523: or I could just not use ick 20:44:03 well, nobody's forcing you to 20:44:07 what would you use instead? sick? 20:44:10 ais523: nothing 20:44:18 well, if you don't need an INTERCAL compiler, don't download one 20:44:20 why not force people to give up their first born and go to a dusty closet to download ick? 20:44:22 nobody's forcing them to 20:44:27 besides, sudo apt-get install intercal works on Ubuntu 20:44:30 although it isn't the latest version 20:44:34 um 20:44:38 what about using clc? 20:44:42 ... 20:44:43 AnMaster: fail 20:44:47 AnMaster: CLC-INTERCAL = sick 20:44:48 oh? 20:44:50 ah 20:44:50 right 20:44:51 or "oo, ick" for older versions 20:45:01 the embedded space actually exposed a bug in mandb 20:45:03 heh 20:45:09 ehird; SixXS has their open proxy for that. Just use http://www.example.com.ipv4.sixxs.org/ to access www.example.com over ipv6, while using ipv4 yourself. 20:45:11 ais523, also can't the clc guy host you as he did some times before? 20:45:22 I've sent to him, haven't got a reply yet 20:45:26 he might be busy, or whatever 20:45:26 http://www.google.com/ could not be gatewayed over IPv4: www.google.com does not have an IPv6 address. 20:45:28 Er, no. 20:45:38 Well, it doesn't. 20:45:43 o_O 20:45:44 ais523, I'm setting up thttpd on that vps atm (it doesn't have a lot or ram, most of it is used by an ircd on it= 20:45:46 s/=/)/ 20:45:51 http://ipv6.google.com.ipv4.sixxs.org/ works, however. 20:45:53 Oh. 20:45:56 http://www.google.com/images/ipv6_logo.gif 20:46:13 fizzie, sixxs has ipv6 to ipv4 proxy as well 20:46:16 you can nest them 20:46:18 They're probably afraid of adding an AAAA record for "www.google.com", since it'd break some people who have IPv6 turned on but configured borkened. 20:46:18 just FYI 20:46:21 * AnMaster tried once 20:46:30 I know they have, but I didn't know they could be nested. 20:46:43 fizzie: yep, Wikipedia are gathering stats as to how many people have borken IPv6 20:46:58 by loading an image every now and then on a custom domain that has both an A and an AAAA record, and seeing what happens 20:47:11 This is not an April Fool's Joke. I am leaving to go to college now. Bye for now all 20:47:14 ais523: The great IPv6 experiment would also collect stats like that, I guess, if they ever got it launched. Although it's more about working v6. 20:47:15 bye 20:47:22 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Leaving"). 20:47:23 20:46 AnMaster: fizzie, sixxs has ipv6 to ipv4 proxy as well 20:47:25 uh, that's what I'm using 20:47:36 ehird: No, the other way around. 20:47:37 fizzie: well, the Wikpiedia works out percentage broken + percentage v4 + percentage v6 20:47:38 oh. 20:47:40 I can't remember what hte results were 20:47:59 how's linux's ipv6 support 20:48:11 os x's is pervasive (i.e., system-wide) 20:48:15 ehird, works but a pain to configure correctly in my experience 20:48:20 ah. 20:48:23 how ... linux. 20:48:25 but that may be due to using tunnel 20:48:29 Well, around here my ISP does native IPv6, and it doesn't need any sort of configuration. 20:48:35 and trying to share a subnet with rest of network 20:48:37 Since the stateless autoconfig is built-in. 20:48:38 I never got that to work 20:49:00 ehird, freebsd's network handling seems easier to get working correctly in general in my experience. 20:49:05 less messy configuration 20:49:06 I did have a manually configured SixXS tunnel, with a subnet shared to my LAN, and there were not really any problems. Although it wasn't quite trivial to configure, no. 20:49:15 the linux one is probably more flexible though 20:49:31 (which means it is harder to use as well) 20:49:56 fizzie, static one or dynamic? 20:50:02 I need the latter due to dynamic IP 20:50:18 Static one. I have no experience with their dynamic stuffery. 20:50:31 ais523, what was the url now again? 20:50:36 for what? 20:50:37 the filebin one 20:50:41 for ick 20:50:45 http://filebin.ca/fkeau/ick-0.-2.0.29.pax.gz 20:51:29 AnMaster: "You currently have 1.390 ISK." That stuff adds up fast. 20:51:38 heh 20:51:44 isk? 20:51:45 haven't checked mine for some time 20:53:20 ehird: They have this credit system; you get credits for keeping your tunnel configured properly, and some operations (like changing the endpoint IP if it's a static one, or creating new subnets) costs credits. 20:53:27 Too bad you can't convert them to real money. :/ 20:53:34 How utterly retarded. 20:53:58 I think it's quite funney, actually. I'm not sure about sensible, but funney. 20:54:09 Funn_e_y with an y. 20:54:27 "Tunnel endpoint 2001:14b8:100:17::2 pinged for 71 weeks" seems to be the last in my log, then (in 2008-09) I disabled it since I moved to this native-v6 place. 20:54:38 ais523: 20:54:39 $ advdef -z4 ick-0.-2.0.29.pax.gz 20:54:40 866737 828925 95% ick-0.-2.0.29.pax.gz 20:54:40 866737 828925 95% 20:54:44 ;P 20:54:58 AnMaster: what does that mean? 20:55:21 fizzie: is finland an good. 20:55:31 ais523, it recompresses more efficiently, a better (but slower) implementation of gzip 20:55:37 ah, aha 20:55:44 or rather of deflate or whatever the actual compression method is called 20:55:47 I have a .pax.lzma version that's rather smaller 20:55:51 but nobody could read it 20:55:53 probably 20:56:22 ais523, there is an advpng that does the same on the datastream in png images. Also optipng and pngout compresses well 20:56:29 iirc there is some WP: page on it 20:56:37 "how to correctly preprocess png before uploading" 20:56:42 or something 20:58:18 http://lepton.kuonet-ng.org/ick-0.-2.0.29.pax.gz 20:58:23 ais523, ipv6 only 20:58:26 thttpd 20:58:26 -!- the_uncanonical_ has joined. 20:58:33 Darnit. 20:58:38 what? 20:58:41 My name is meant to be the_uncanonical_ehird. 20:58:44 -!- the_uncanonical_ has changed nick to ehirdbuntu. 20:58:45 haha 20:58:46 AnMaster: "7z -tgzip -mx=9" creates a 826520-byte .gz file for that .pax. So it's even smaller. 20:58:47 Hi from Ubuntu. 20:59:02 fizzie, mhm, that's interesting. 20:59:06 Hrm. 3d accel isn't working. What's a shame. 20:59:17 ehirdbuntu, what GPU? 20:59:25 hi ehird 20:59:26 if it is ATI I feel for you. 20:59:38 AnMaster: VirtualFake "Maxi-Emulate" 2000 20:59:47 ehirdbuntu, huh? 20:59:48 i.e. none; just 3d accel enabled in Parallels. 20:59:53 oh 20:59:54 right 20:59:59 I'm test-driving Ubuntu, see. 21:00:00 -!- tombom has joined. 21:00:12 ehirdbuntu, you did it native before iirc, when you complained about fans 21:00:22 Yar, that was Kubuntu. 21:00:26 ah 21:00:42 They all pale before the perfection that is ehirdbuntu, obviously. 21:00:51 Well, duh. 21:01:08 I was a bit surprised that not all of [a-z]u?buntu names were in use. 21:01:30 For my next trick, I will install Perl in this VM. 21:02:59 ais523, so what did you think about it? 21:03:00 wonder if 3d accel can be made to worky-work 21:03:07 AnMaster: about what? 21:03:13 http://lepton.kuonet-ng.org/ick-0.-2.0.29.pax.gz 21:03:19 ah, pretty much perfect 21:03:28 also the directory index at http://lepton.kuonet-ng.org/ 21:03:33 eww at thttpd's colours 21:03:42 thttpd is awesome. 21:03:48 if you don't like its colours you are mentally ill 21:04:00 ehirdbuntu, yes agreed, perfect for when you need really really light weight 21:04:11 THTTPD IS KING OF GOOD COLOUR DESIGN 21:04:16 no 21:04:21 yes. 21:04:22 weirdo. 21:04:24 it is institution green isn't it? 21:04:36 or close at least 21:04:58 #99cc99 it seems 21:05:15 Wait, did I say install Perl? 21:05:18 I already have it. 21:05:26 yes, you do 21:05:40 Yeah, same on OS X, except its is horribly out of date. 21:05:48 $ perl --version This is perl, v5.10.0 built for i486-linux-gnu-thread-multi 21:05:50 Well howdy doody 21:06:00 incidentally, you don't have to use CPAN to get the more common perl modules 21:06:04 as many of them have been ported to apt 21:06:07 lepton /usr/www/data/htdocs $ perl --version 21:06:07 This is perl, v5.10.0 built for x86_64-linux-thread-multi 21:06:08 ais523: I'd rather keep it all in one place ... 21:06:13 fair enough 21:06:25 Someone type a pipe. 21:06:26 I don't have a pipe key. 21:06:27 | 21:06:28 it runs x86_64 arch actually (yes I have that now, didn't back when I made ick package) 21:06:28 In this vm 21:06:54 $ cat /proc/cpuinfo | grep 'model name' 21:06:54 model name : Quad-Core AMD Opteron(tm) Processor 1354 21:06:54 model name : Quad-Core AMD Opteron(tm) Processor 1354 21:06:54 model name : Quad-Core AMD Opteron(tm) Processor 1354 21:06:54 model name : Quad-Core AMD Opteron(tm) Processor 1354 21:07:04 well it is a vps so meh 21:07:42 AnMaster: Closest name for #99cc99 I can find in my rgb.txt is DarkSeaGreen3, which is #9bcd9b. 21:08:02 http://www.google.com/mobile/default/brainsearch.html 21:08:19 fizzie, that rgb.txt... what is it based on? 21:08:22 some official standard? 21:08:27 x11. 21:08:28 or did you make it up? 21:08:29 netscape. 21:08:29 etc. 21:08:31 oh 21:08:34 ah 21:08:37 AnMaster: I'm guessing a random collection of sources, very unofficial. 21:09:58 Brain Search sort-of reminds one of the very early MentalPlex™ technology: http://www.google.com/mentalplex/ 21:10:00 any joke RFCs this year? 21:10:14 Dear Ubufox, 21:10:25 thx for freezing my browser trying to install a plugin 21:10:27 uh oh 21:11:05 ehird, never happened to me ;P (because I don't use plugins yeah :D) 21:11:09 AnMaster: Maybe IPv6 over Social Networks: http://www.rfc-editor.org/rfc/rfc5514.txt -- I didn't really read it, it's just that the name sounds ludicruous enough. 21:11:30 With IPv6 over Social Network (IPoSN): 21:11:30 o Every user is a router with at least one loopback interface; 21:11:31 o Every friend or connection between users will be used as a point- 21:11:33 to-point link. 21:11:57 sounds bogus enough certainly 21:12:04 -!- ehirdbuntu has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"). 21:12:12 "A latency of several hours has an impact on the transport protocols. UDP SHOULD be used, and TCP SHOULD NOT be used." 21:12:16 -!- kar8nga has joined. 21:13:54 Hrmph. 21:13:58 It was better in virtualbox 21:15:44 fizzie, why loopback? Am I just too tired or is it part of the joke? 21:19:27 The loopback interface is used for the user ID address, since it can't really be assigned to any of the point-to-point links between friends either. 21:20:52 ah.. 21:20:57 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zMm_DrHYCD0&feature=related 21:21:19 There's a small joke there, in that their suggested /64 prefix for IPoSN node addresses (for a single social networking app) is 2001:db8:face:b00c::/64; it is not too hard to think which application would use that one. 21:21:52 -!- jix has quit ("..."). 21:23:56 "Internet fishbone" <-- heh 21:24:01 I wonder if that mentioned facebook app -- http://apps.facebook.com/ipoverfb/ -- actually does something. I don't have an account there. 21:24:49 fizzie, what would db8 mean? Or is it just random? 21:28:37 AnMaster: It's "the IPv6 documentation prefix", meant for example use, a bit like example.com. 21:28:40 -!- Hiato has quit ("Leaving."). 21:28:42 http://www.apnic.net/info/faq/ipv6-documentation-prefix-faq.html 21:28:49 RIPng?ah 21:28:51 err 21:28:53 copy fail 21:29:05 or why was it copied into irc client at all 21:29:06 huh 21:29:16 Part of the 2001:0c00::/23 block allocated to APNIC. Their WHOIS server doesn't mention it, had to google a bit. 21:30:34 -!- olsner has joined. 21:30:42 GHC 6.10.2, whoot whoot 21:30:54 what does the initial 2001 mean btw? 21:31:06 it is almost always that 21:31:30 2001 is for Teredo tunneling 21:31:38 mhm 21:31:47 2000::/3 is the "global unicast" (read: "normal address) range, just about anything fits in there. 21:31:56 what about 2607 ? 21:32:15 my ipv6 vps that now hosts ick starts with that 21:32:16 Deewiant: That's just 2001:0000::/32. 21:32:36 fizzie: Oh, darn, I thought it was the whole thing. 21:32:45 But upon reflection, that'd have been stupid. :-P 21:33:01 The whole 2002::/16 block is for 6to4 tunneling, though. 21:33:16 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:34:53 * ais523 does the C-INTERCAL release announcement 21:35:02 Looking at IANA's list, it seems that they mostly ran out of space in 2001::/16, and since 2002::/16 was for 6to4, they decided to delegate in a bit larger blocks, giving stuff starting from 2400 to APNIC, 2600 to ARIN, 2800 to LACNIC, 2a00 to RIPE and 2c00 to AfriNIC. 21:35:16 http://groups.google.com/group/alt.lang.intercal 21:36:01 http://www.iana.org/assignments/ipv6-unicast-address-assignments 21:38:18 6bone used to use addresses starting with 3ffe:, which is almost at the end of the 2000::/3 global-unicast range. 21:41:02 ran out of space in ipv6? 21:41:03 err 21:42:05 doesn't a single /64 have more ips than ipv4 does in total anyway? 21:42:19 how can they possibly run out of space yet? 21:42:45 presumably they were giving away bigger chunks than normal 21:42:48 Well, ran out of space in the 2001::/16 block. That's only 5192296858534827628530496329220096 addresses, you have to cut them some slack. 21:42:49 ah 21:43:08 they're hardly going to give out a measly /128 to people who ask, when they could have a /96 or whatever instead, are they? 21:43:15 You can't allocate anyone anything less than /64 in any sensible way, so... 21:43:21 ais523, well that turned out to have been a bad idea for ipv4, I mean IBM had it's own /8 and such... 21:43:26 yep 21:43:41 so why the same mistake again for ipv6... 21:44:28 because people never learn from history 21:45:22 Also: It's not like they're allocating to random companies; the point is that since there are enough bits in there, you can allocate to a huge ISP a /32 or whatever, so that you can use that in the core routing tables, and you don't have to explicitly list all the billion tiny /64 blocks there. 21:45:36 any bets for when ipv7 or ipv8 is introduced to solve this? 21:45:56 it'll be standardised in 2015, but not used until 2042 21:46:03 Eh, CADIE'll solve the addressing issues for us anyway. 21:47:13 Anyway, here's the rationale for large blocks, quoted from wikipedia: "Rather, the longer addresses allow a better, systematic, hierarchical allocation of addresses and efficient route aggregation. With IPv4, complex Classless Inter-Domain Routing (CIDR) techniques were developed to make the best use of the small address space. Renumbering an existing network for a new connectivity provider with different routing prefixes is a major effort with IPv4, as discu 21:47:13 ssed in RFC 2071 and RFC 2072. With IPv6, however, changing the prefix in a few routers can renumber an entire network ad hoc, because the host identifiers (the least-significant 64 bits of an address) are decoupled from the subnet identifiers and the network provider's routing prefix." 21:47:22 ais523, I'd say standard in 2017 or 2018 possibly. Used for cool hostmasks on irc around 2042, used for other stuff around 2078 21:47:58 -!- nooga has quit (Connection reset by peer). 21:48:18 -!- Mony has quit ("Quit"). 21:49:08 heh 21:50:00 The hugeness of the IPv4 internet routing tables is a real problem, I understand. http://bgp.potaroo.net/ has a plot; currently a core-y router might have to keep that 300k-entry routing table in memory to know where things should go. 21:50:31 How large is one entry 21:50:42 It would certainly help if you could say things like "this /32 contains all the gazillion IPs in the americas, you can stick all those packets to this pipe". 21:50:46 that ipv6 over facebook wouldn't be impossible to implement I suspect. ( I wonder if that mentioned facebook app -- http://apps.facebook.com/ipoverfb/ -- actually does something. I don't have an account there.) <-- same, did anyone answer 21:50:58 ? 21:52:25 Deewiant: I'unno, there's a 32-bit prefix, few bits for the length, then whatever is needed for the actual system to know what to do with it. It's still quite a large list to search for every packet in the tubes. 21:52:47 Well, you wouldn't store it as a list, would you. :-P 21:52:57 Done with hardware, obviously, but that just means it costs more to get bigger memories. 21:53:20 My guess is it's some kind of trie or a perfect hash table 21:53:40 My guess is it's some kind of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Content-addressable_memory 21:53:49 No-one does routing in software with those speeds, I would assume. 21:53:55 That's cheating :-P 21:54:01 Not my department, though. 21:54:54 Certainly software-based routers don't use a plain old list either. 21:55:23 Please relay all messages containing /#esoteric: to #esoteric and all messages containing /#irp: to #irp. 21:58:17 Deewiant: Quick peek at Linux suggests there's some sort of "recently-used" hash table for addresses, and a ip_route_output_slow fallback which uses fib_lookup; there's a kernel config option as to what that uses, FIB_HASH is the default ("very proven and good enough", says help) but there's also FIB_TRIE, which uses "new experimental LC-trie as FIB lookup algorithm". 21:58:26 Deewiant: The trie one is supposed to be faster for large tables. 21:58:42 Refers to http://www.nada.kth.se/~snilsson/public/papers/dyntrie2/ 21:58:48 has anyone tried creating a paradox in IRP? 21:59:02 Probably. 21:59:57 FireFly, http://bgp.potaroo.net/ <-- what do the colors represent? 21:59:58 err 21:59:59 fizzie, ^ 22:00:39 My guess would be different routers' view of the routing table. But that's just a guess. Maybe the plot is documented somewhere. 22:01:17 Heh, 297990 entries in the v4 routing table, 1776 in v6. It's a "bit" smaller. 22:01:25 that's a lot smaller 22:01:40 almost 2.3 orders of magnitude 22:01:59 -!- kar8nga has quit (Success). 22:07:53 -!- mmorrow has joined. 22:07:58 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 22:08:10 * Gracenotes looks about 22:08:16 hi Gracenotes 22:08:29 and welcome, I don't think I've seen you here before 22:08:32 oh hey, ais523! 22:08:33 although I've seen you elsewhere 22:08:45 what brings you here/ 22:08:48 yes, on Wikipedia namely. I've come across your edits on the Esoteric Wiki 22:09:02 iirc 22:09:04 mostly clearing up spam nowadays, it seems 22:09:21 Didn't know there was an IRC channel though. It was mentioned in #haskell in the context of a Brainfuck interpreter. 22:09:31 this is probably the most active esolang forum anywhere 22:09:37 although it often goes offtopic 22:09:57 of course the guy actually writing the compiler didn't actually join :) 22:10:12 he might invent another Ook, i'm afraid 22:10:20 well, sometimes it seems there are more Brainfuck interpreters than programmers 22:10:29 and more Brainfuck derivatives than interesting languages 22:10:34 heh, yeah. I sort of invented an Esoteric language once, although it was rather simple. Just a stack-oriented simple lambda calculus interpreter 22:10:46 well, that's more interesting than most invented esolangs 22:11:00 -!- kadaver has joined. 22:11:24 ^bf ,[.,]!Hi, kadaver! 22:11:24 Hi, kadaver! 22:11:29 for example, this added 5 and 7: 22:11:33 >f >x >x @ @ #x >f >x >x @ @ #x @ #f >a ?0 >b >f >a -1 @ >b +1 @ ? #b #a #f @ 5 @ 7 @ 22:11:56 the first part is the Y-combinator; after that is a Peano addition 22:11:57 reverse-polish, @ = apply? 22:11:58 it's even self-documenting! 22:11:59 @ @ 22:12:10 ais523: yep. 22:12:13 on both counts 22:12:50 lol hi! friendly channe ? 22:12:56 yes, friendly channel 22:13:01 cool 22:13:03 # makes a lambda abstraction, > recalls a variable (throwing an error if not in scope), ? is a simple condition operator, @ is apply 22:13:07 i wrote a bf interpreter in haskell 22:13:09 once 22:13:14 we even chatted to a troll friendlily for about half an hour, I think he gave up after that 22:13:47 hmm... seems we don't have an unlambda bot in here at the moment 22:13:53 ehird: if you're online, bring unlambda in here? 22:14:03 unlambda? *brain hurts* 22:14:15 Gracenotes: like lambda calculus, but without the lambdas 22:14:22 it nevertheless manages to be turing-complete 22:14:24 yeah, SKI combinators 22:14:27 yep 22:14:36 with a few other things added to make it more confusing 22:14:41 nonetheless it manages to make my brain hurt :) 22:14:49 oh, it makes everyone's brain hurt 22:15:02 interestingly, Unlambda is rather easy to write as esolangs go, but almost impossible to read or edit 22:15:18 write meaning programs in it, or an interpreter? 22:15:23 programs 22:15:25 ais523: i guess thats the most effective way to treat trolls 22:15:26 interpreters are a lot harder 22:15:33 -!- swistakm has quit ("Lost terminal"). 22:15:47 I am familiar with SKI calculus in the form of the environment monad, though 22:15:52 yay, monads 22:16:06 -!- DH__ has joined. 22:16:26 K = unit, S = bind 22:16:33 ^style 22:16:33 Available: agora alice darwin discworld europarl ff7 fisher ic irc lovecraft nethack* pa speeches ss wp 22:16:37 ^style wp 22:16:38 Selected style: wp (1/256th of all Wikipedia "Talk:" namespace pages) 22:16:44 I feel like some Wikipedian nonsense, fungot 22:16:45 ais523: how many km long is the line? special:contributions/ fnord ( user fnord) 13:24, 27 june 2008 ( utc 22:16:48 -!- DH__ has left (?). 22:16:54 fungot's written in Befunge 22:16:55 ais523: thats a fairly vague definition of " not serious" ( ' spear') plus the latin and germanic " man" means " land of meadows" from the name of james d. watson? user:landerman56landerman56 ( user talk:landerman56talk) 00:14, 16 december 2007 ( utc) 22:17:04 heh. markov? 22:17:08 yep 22:17:12 it also does Underload and Brainfuck 22:17:30 ^ul (Hello, world!)S 22:17:31 Hello, world! 22:18:08 interpreted Befunge? 22:18:16 yes 22:18:22 it's basically impossible to compile 22:18:31 yeah. the point of it :) 22:18:36 although someone (fizzie IRC)'s working on a JITting funge interpreter 22:18:42 and some impls, like cfunge, are incredibly fast 22:19:17 -!- tombom has quit ("Peace and Protection 4.22.2"). 22:19:20 yeah. it is just a multidimensional array, in a sense 22:19:40 funge-space is too big to be able to hold all in memory at once, though 22:19:47 or indeed, all on disk without compression 22:19:53 which makes an interesting challenge to interpret 22:20:06 Deewiant here is the world expert on Befunge conformance testing 22:20:08 does it extend infinitely? I thought it just looped. 22:20:15 not infinitely 22:20:15 around the edges 22:20:24 but Befunge-98 extends to INT_MIN and INT_MAX 22:20:27 fungot runs on cfunge iirc 22:20:29 AnMaster: one reason the claim beggars the imagination is that one has some idea of what nationalism is. no wonder zoe was so fed up of dealing with bensozia in myth is carlo fnord ' ' if that is not used commonly and carries with it an implication of involvement in fnord advocacy like fnord, if that's some published author's view, then it must be made extremely clear by re-writing the introduction and then his or her unique de 22:20:32 which is rather large, especially on a 64-bit system 22:20:48 AnMaster: IIRC, it's been run on cfunge and RC/funge, I'm not sure which it's using atm 22:20:50 ais523, efunge is bignum btw 22:20:56 ais523: It's been cfunge lately, yes. 22:20:57 well, yes, so it can be infinite 22:21:04 but it nonetheless loops around the edges 22:21:04 hm. the edges don't loop then? 22:21:04 and yes I know it has been on rc/funge before 22:21:07 okay then 22:21:09 lahey-space is fun 22:21:13 and rather confusing 22:21:15 mostly because I hadn't done SOCK in cfunge yet then 22:21:22 living on a Torus.. 22:21:36 Gracenotes, ah no, not exactly in b98 22:21:40 I'll let ais523 explain 22:21:49 oh dear, befunge-98 wrapping is rather complex 22:21:52 And I've been doing a bit of jitfunge, yes. It'll probably never be a very complete interpreter, though, I don't think I'll support threads any time soon. 22:22:01 Awwwwwwwwwwwwh, GHC 6.10.2 doesn't update the extralibs, I'll have to wait for 6.12 :-/ 22:22:03 it's only like a torus if you're going in a compass direction at the time 22:22:11 yeah. I've been meaning to make an interpreter, but my understanding was that it looped like a Torus with set sizes. 22:22:21 -!- Sgeo[College] has joined. 22:22:23 the actual looping's a sort of virtual bounce 22:22:33 if it reaches the edge, the IP bounces but turns invisible, in a sense 22:22:41 so it doesn't execute anything until it gets back to the opposite edge 22:22:45 If MSSQLServer seems to be running on computers in the computer lab, is that a sign of somethign malicious? 22:22:51 then it starts executing again, after rebouncing 22:22:54 Sgeo[College]: no, lots of programs use it 22:23:07 that's the same effect as a torus when going orthogonally 22:23:08 ais523: if it's step-wise, why is the lack of execution important? 22:23:20 Gracenotes: well, say you have abc as your program 22:23:37 Gracenotes: If you have multiple threads it matters. 22:23:44 it runs abc, then reaches the right-hand end of the program, then doesn't execute anything when going back to the left, then starts executing again from the left 22:23:52 also, it does all this in zero time even if fungespace is infinitely larg 22:23:54 *large 22:24:06 Can someone check if there's any CADIE stuff on GOOG-411? 22:24:12 My cell phone's not working 22:24:34 oh, multithreaded Befunge. So it's like Python's GIL then? 22:24:48 Befunge-98 is a pretty advanced standard, really 22:24:55 it's a major update over befunge-93 22:25:04 Threads run in a predefined order, one at a time. They're not really parallel. 22:25:12 The wrapping is explained rather well (as far as writing an implementation is considered, and unless you bother about corner cases like jumping over the edge) in the non-appendix part of the Funge-98 spec. 22:25:32 "When the IP attempts to travel into the whitespace between the code and the end of known, addressable space, it backtracks. This means that its delta is reversed and it ignores (skips over without executing) all instructions. Travelling thus, it finds the other 'edge' of code when there is again nothing but whitespace in front of it. It is reflected 180 degrees once more (to restore its original delta) and stops ignoring instructions. Execution then resumes 22:25:32 normally - the wrap is complete." 22:25:35 Very pragmatic. 22:25:47 well, jumping over the edge isn't the same in all implementations anyway 22:25:59 so no sane programmer relies on it 22:26:12 'sane'? :) 22:26:28 well, some esolangers are saner than others 22:26:36 indeed, I've gathered 22:26:59 Also some are just saner in other ways, even though the total sum of sanity might not be larger. 22:27:17 What's my sanity level? And others? 22:27:23 Over 9000 22:27:24 fungot: What's yours? 22:27:25 Deewiant: ' ' ' fnord" by another group on methylene blue fnord amyloid fnord by promoting fnord, related to alzheimer's disease. paper was published earlier than taylor's, why is fnord 22:27:49 AnMaster's speed-obsession, for example, is a valid excuse for other more or less sane behaviour. In my opinion, anyway. 22:28:06 AnMaster seems worryingly sane for a #esoteric-er 22:28:23 and I don't think the speed obsession is a sign of insanity, it's more he's just aiming for an unusual project goal 22:28:37 fizzie: how does Befunge know where the other edge of code is? 22:28:53 Magic! 22:29:03 interpreters keep track of the outermost values of fungespace that contain non-spaces 22:29:12 and optimise infinity down to finite values that way 22:29:21 Or the outermost values that have ever contained non-spaces, more likely. :p 22:29:33 Unless you're running slowdown.b98, which I guess cfunge still can't handle? 22:29:52 I suppose one could have special markers? 22:30:02 it's generally done in memory 22:30:09 Deewiant: I thought cfunge could handle it, it was jsut slow 22:30:11 ? 22:30:37 slowdown.b98? 22:30:38 ais523: Well sure, CCBI as well, but iterating one step a time through around 2^64-1 or even 2^32-1 values takes time 22:30:43 22:13 ais523: we even chatted to a troll friendlily for about half an hour, I think he gave up after that 22:30:44 WHO?> 22:30:45 who? 22:30:47 So I don't really call that handling it 22:30:56 ehird: that person who kept saying one thing, quitting, and changing nick 22:31:07 you mean me? ;-) :P 22:31:11 admittedly, he wasn't in the channel when we were talking to him, but he was obviously logreading 22:31:13 ehird: no, someone else 22:31:14 so, uh, not a very effective troll I take it 22:31:15 can g++ handle lambdas? 22:31:15 I've seen (and written) befunge-93 implementations that mark the edges of the funge-space with specific codes (like 254, 253, 252, 251) that check the x/y coordinate and then wrap if necessary; that lets you just move your IP around without having to check for wrapping. That kind of thing won't work in funge-98, of course. 22:31:16 ais523: We were rather un-friendly, I recall. 22:31:18 you started doing that a bit later 22:31:25 No, I've done that forever. 22:31:29 wait wrong channel 22:31:31 Gracenotes: iki.fi/deewiant/files/befunge/programs/slowdown.b98, something I wrote to slow down interpreters 22:31:33 kadaver: I'm not sure, but C++ lambdas aren't proper lambdas anyway 22:31:41 * ehird tries http://apps.facebook.com/ipoverfb 22:31:46 Your router 22:31:46 Router operator: Elliott Hird 22:31:46 Does "C++ lambdas" mean the boost lambda, or what? 22:31:47 Loopback0 address: 2001:db8:face:b00c::2024:ff0c/128 22:31:49 Friend interfaces: 1 22:31:50 and various bits of C++ almost qualify as esolangs by now anyway 22:31:51 Connection proposals from friends: 0 22:31:53 Your router does not have a default route yet... So, you cannot send traffic to the real IPv6 Internet. Please connect to more friends and wait until RIPng has converged. 22:31:54 Deewiant: /me wats at your code 22:31:56 wow, I think it might acutally work 22:32:05 ehird: IP over facebook? 22:32:11 ais523: yes 22:32:15 from that rfc 22:32:15 Gracenotes: It's relatively clear for Befunge, IMO. You should take a look at Mycology ;-) 22:32:19 classic, and no technical reason why it couldn't work 22:32:23 where's the RFC? 22:32:30 ais523: it's an april 1st one 22:32:31 the april fools RFCs do usually work, after all 22:32:34 it's for any social network 22:32:35 apart from that evil bit one 22:32:44 ais523: hey, that one worked! 22:32:46 ^style irc 22:32:46 Selected style: irc (IRC logs of freenode/#esoteric, freenode/#scheme and ircnet/#douglasadams) 22:32:46 they wouldn't be nearly as funny if they didn't work, after all 22:32:49 it got put in freebsd trunk, ais523 22:32:53 Gracenotes: Here's fungot's sources: http://zem.fi/~fis/fungot.b98.txt 22:32:53 ehird: classic 22:32:53 fizzie: i'd say that would be obvious... the furs never reached istanbul... you were asking if something called " parameters" that might be 22:32:56 and I don't think the speed obsession is a sign of insanity, it's more he's just aiming for an unusual project goal <-- indeed 22:32:58 Gracenotes: iki.fi/deewiant/befunge/mycology.html, the reason I'm the world expert on Befunge conformance testing 22:33:03 ^source 22:33:03 http://zem.fi/~fis/fungot.b98.txt 22:33:08 (The wikipedia style is a bit too punctuation-rich for my tastes.) 22:33:24 Hm, is a transcript of CADIE's Triumph video available somewhere? I didn't bring my headphones to school :) 22:33:24 :( 22:33:40 Deewiant: uh. KB. X>X 22:33:47 Unless you're running slowdown.b98, which I guess cfunge still can't handle? <-- more important matters showed up recently 22:33:59 the fix is partly done 22:34:01 -!- MizardX has quit ("reboot"). 22:34:02 AnMaster: Alright, just wondering 22:34:03 Sgeo[College]: triumph? 22:34:14 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WDeCNf4djdY 22:34:15 Gracenotes: Head asplode? :-P 22:34:29 no, the default text editor doesn't like the encoding 22:34:36 It's Latin-1. 22:34:42 un sec. 22:34:51 Compared to Mycology, fungot's really quite readable and sane. 22:34:51 fizzie: but they ask for pieces of papers. all but 1 register needs a temporary? when? 22:34:53 Or really, it doesn't matter, to be honest. 22:34:58 Also, CADIE's text on the images.google.com page changed 22:35:02 It's arbitrary as long as it's ASCII. 22:35:07 fizzie: well, Mycology's a test-suite, they're /meant/ to be insane 22:35:12 or they wouldn't be testing properly 22:35:17 Although I think UTF-8 might break at some point. 22:35:39 Gracenotes: There's a null byte at one point which might explain your problems. 22:35:40 I welcome our ostensibly-written-in-INTERCAL overlords 22:36:00 ais523: Well, they could still be written legibly. :-P 22:36:13 the april fools RFCs do usually work, after all <-- IMPS? Well depends on the value of "works". 22:36:14 I had to fix a bug related to 1y a week ago 22:36:22 Deewiant: just seems like a lot going on 22:36:28 that's all 22:36:29 AnMaster: the pigeon one definitely works, there have been tests 22:36:43 yes 22:36:53 In order to do it, I had to x to a temporary location from which I could x out to a slightly more sparse area where I had room to actually do something 22:37:11 i think wikipedia has the best april fools 22:37:16 it always does 22:37:18 or, as the file would say, DOOG? 22:37:22 a huge amount of effort goes into that 22:37:29 Gracenotes, the encoding thing: litteral embedded null byte 22:37:32 Gracenotes: oh, befunge strings are normally written backwards 22:37:36 to check interpreters doesn't choke on it 22:37:37 so they print out forwards 22:37:39 ais523: yep, I know that much 22:37:52 (cfunge of course doesn't, my editor does though) 22:38:01 Deewiant, did any interpreter ever choke on it? 22:38:03 push onto the stack 22:38:06 then print them 22:38:07 AnMaster: RC/Funge I think. 22:38:10 Did you know ... that Adam de Stratton was arrested for the possession of toenail clippings (example pictured)? 22:38:11 Not sure. 22:38:14 classy 22:38:16 mhm 22:38:45 -!- MizardX has joined. 22:38:47 But I have to get up in around 6 hours so I'm going to bed now 22:38:49 Night 22:38:57 cya 22:38:58 I love the way they mixed in a genuine UK news story 22:38:59 night too 22:39:03 (in a sec 22:39:04 ) 22:39:07 ofc, all the others are genuine too, but mostly rewritten to look misleading 22:39:36 New cadie blog post 22:40:18 It's like a soap opera for ai nerds. 22:40:30 ais523, about ick, what does http://code.google.com/p/cadie/source/browse/trunk/CADIE.I actually do? 22:40:38 AnMaster: prints a constant string 22:40:42 AnMaster: you could run it and find out 22:40:47 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 22:40:54 meh 22:40:57 but I'm disappointed that not enough people here realise it prints out a constant string, that should be obvious 22:41:06 the actual string itself is rather harder to work out 22:41:11 oh 22:41:22 a fool related string I assume 22:41:34 what makes INTERCAL so (apparently) difficult? 22:42:03 ais523, didn't you say it didn't run in ick? 22:42:07 I don't have clc around 22:42:08 it does run in ick 22:42:14 it's clc it didn't run in, I ported her 22:42:22 Gracenotes: lack of usual arithmetic and flow control operators 22:42:45 ah. so how are conditions generally handler. 22:42:47 Gracenotes: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:INTERCAL_Circuitous_Diagram.svg 22:42:48 *handled? 22:43:04 Gracenotes: in INTERCAL-72, the usual trick is to do a computed function return 22:43:10 you create a wrapper function 22:43:25 and return either from it if the condition's true, or the function that called it if the condition's false 22:43:36 in INTERCAL, you can return from a function other than the one you're in at the time, which is rather confusing 22:43:50 I bet cadie is actually real and we just haven't realisd it yet./ 22:44:00 well, that can't be genuine source 22:44:07 but maybe cadie hid her source 22:44:23 ais523: the source says I don't feel like sharing, right? 22:44:26 yes 22:44:31 or something like that 22:44:37 so presumably the source is a joke by cadie in this cadie-is-real alternate universe 22:44:46 yes 22:45:03 in more recent INTERCAL, by the way, computed COME FROM and computed ABSTAIN are the favoured way to do conditional branches 22:45:07 -!- nooga has joined. 22:45:12 moin 22:45:15 ah, COME FROM. Nearly as sane as goto. 22:45:32 computed COME FROM presents some interesting hurdles for implementors 22:45:37 I should know, I maintain C-INTERCAL 22:46:16 ah, interesting 22:46:21 meh 22:46:24 * Gracenotes met ESR once 22:46:24 new version out today 22:46:36 hmm... what was he like? 22:46:38 "Hey I bought it for awhile. It was believable... However the favorited video "bye bye panda" kind of maade me completely doubt the reality of it. And if AI was real, it would have been all over the news if it was on YouTube. Nice try, Google. " 22:46:42 how on earth can you believe that 22:46:48 Gracenotes: oh god 22:46:50 I am so, so sorry 22:46:53 I had no idea 22:46:58 :P 22:46:58 :-( 22:47:00 I've never met him 22:47:23 my C-INTERCAL is technically a fork, but because the original had been discontinued for years it became the de-facto official version 22:47:43 Alan Cox was in Finland in a small meet-thing-thing, but that's the extent to which I've met any Linux-famous people. 22:48:00 wow 22:48:15 cool 22:48:29 I once almost met Bjourne, of C++ fame 22:48:35 *Bjarne? 22:48:39 er, yes 22:48:41 no, not him 22:48:44 How did I manage to misread wikipedia's summary "Alan Cox -- is a British computer programmer heavily involved in the development of the Linux kernel --" as something like "Alan Cox -- is a British computer programmer often heavily drunk". 22:48:45 Bjourne Stroustrup 22:48:46 his evil brother 22:48:53 I actually don't recall. 22:48:55 the C++ dude. 22:48:57 the C++ was a joke article was written by him 22:48:59 a fun prank. 22:49:03 ehird, fizzie: Linus number. 22:49:07 i'm in a pub, owning their wifi ap 22:49:08 but it was not to be. I totally missed his lecture :\ 22:49:23 AnMaster: 'has written code in the same file as'? 22:49:25 if so, many hundreds. 22:49:26 thousands. 22:49:54 ehird, not sure how to define it so it is exclusive enough, yet allows us in #esoteric to get low ones 22:50:04 ;P 22:50:19 personally, I think CADIE is just Google's attempt to compete with Wolfram Alpha 22:50:27 ais523: that thing still exists? 22:50:33 CADIE is a prank 22:50:34 ;p 22:50:35 ais523: did you see images.google.com ? Not the one with unicorns 22:50:40 no, i didn't 22:50:41 nooga: no shit sherlock! 22:50:43 you're a genius! 22:50:45 nooga: but she's written in INTERCAL! 22:50:50 indeed 22:50:56 -!- nooga has changed nick to cpt_obvious. 22:51:02 heh, C/C++/C# in http://code.google.com/creative/cadie/ 22:51:12 Gracenotes: all of them say that 22:51:18 that's the first intercal mention 22:51:23 ehird: not that, just the name of the language is silly 22:51:24 Different languages have slightly different responses 22:51:26 I mean, C/C++/C# 22:51:26 yeah 22:51:29 ais523: well, yeah 22:51:30 those are pretty different langs 22:51:32 they're all c-alikes 22:51:35 but true 22:51:35 Tailored to the language 22:51:36 so is Java! 22:51:42 "CADIE is busy working on a new translator that will allow you to use INTERCAL with GWT instead of Java. Check back soon!" 22:51:48 ais523: probably copied from google code search; as in, the syntaces are similar so it searches them together 22:51:49 who knows 22:51:51 my favorite one :) 22:52:10 well, C-INTERCAL allows linking INTERCAL with C or Befunge code 22:52:21 Be back soon 22:52:35 -!- Sgeo[College] has quit ("http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client"). 22:54:44 there are no clear docs covering P6 architecture 22:55:39 cpt_obvious: wut? ? 22:55:49 who where what why when did you come from and wut 22:55:59 oh 22:56:01 you're nooga 22:56:54 ehird: no shit sherlock! 22:57:01 :D 22:57:05 you're a genius! 22:57:12 >:D 22:57:18 fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck 22:57:28 Heh 22:57:56 * ais523 gives FireFly an anti-swat shielf 22:57:58 *sheild 22:58:05 Woo 22:58:20 hrm. are there any good logic esolangs? 22:58:26 Gracenotes: prolog :-) 22:58:30 what do you mean by "logic esolangs"/ 22:58:32 so, when does cadie give us brain implants? 22:58:36 ha. ha. ha. 22:58:38 prolog isn't an esolang, but it's pretty interesting anyway 22:58:41 -!- Sgeo[College] has joined. 22:58:45 vary funay ehird. 22:58:48 and not used nearly as much as it should be 22:58:51 New entry on Cadie's blog 22:58:54 i am haurmor murster 22:58:59 no 22:59:00 that's not new 22:59:05 ais523: mainly modeled after Prolog, though. 22:59:07 I said it was new 5 minutes ago 22:59:17 Oh 22:59:34 Gracenotes: I don't know of any declarative esolangs offhand 22:59:35 constraint programming, satisfiability, probably with unification/backtracking 22:59:45 although that does sound rather esoteric as it is 22:59:49 I have a couple but have never got around to writing the specs 23:00:02 Proud's basically Prolog with all the restrictions removed, but it's uncomputable 23:00:07 this is really elaborate for an april fool's 23:00:15 guess google decided to go all out 23:00:16 I don't see in the log where you mentioned a new post 23:00:18 and Cyclexa's a potentially-practical esolang project, but I haven't really got very far with it 23:00:21 Sgeo[College]: I do 23:00:29 What was the exact line? 23:00:30 22:39 ehird: New cadie blog post 23:00:31 22:40 ehird: It's like a soap opera for ai nerds. 23:00:32 Googling for "Cadie" gives me a news result telling me it's an april fools.. Very clever, Google 23:00:33 which is based on a cross between regexps and Prolog 23:00:49 FireFly: err cadie is an april fools is that what you're saying? 23:00:52 No 23:00:53 But 23:00:59 one of the reasons that Cyclexa's on hold, by the way, is that Perl are stealing all my ideas :( 23:01:26 I get newspaper hits telling me it is, IMO it'd be better if people didn't get to know it is that easy 23:01:38 FireFly: 1. it's blindingly obvious 23:01:44 2. google would never tamper their results like that 23:01:45 Well, true 23:01:49 that's just not the done thing 23:02:26 http://brainstorm.ubuntu.com/idea/5897/ yespls 23:02:47 Cadie is still an ongoing story, though. It's not "Oh, Google did a quick joke, end of story". Knowing that CADIE is an April 1st prank is like knowing that a novel is fiction 23:03:03 wait 23:03:04 novels are fictional? 23:03:09 :x 23:03:19 wut? 23:03:31 cpt_obvious: 23:03:41 what? 23:03:54 ais523: (quit) 23:03:57 AnMaster: you've become a synonym for whooosh 23:04:01 ... 23:04:04 since when? 23:04:07 possibly unfairly 23:04:17 since you never do anything but woosh to non-oerjan jokes, AnMaster 23:04:26 ais523, could you write Proud be written in Feather? 23:04:38 no, Proud's uncomputable, Feather is not super-TC 23:04:39 I think my professor's writing broken code 23:04:46 nope 23:04:46 although Feather hurts my head, and I don't want my brain to explode right now 23:04:48 darn 23:04:53 Sgeo[College]: highly propable 23:04:54 ais523, right. Was just wondering 23:05:09 wut's Feather? 23:05:17 NO 23:05:17 oh dear 23:05:19 cpt_obvious: unask that question 23:05:24 QUICK DAMMIT YOU FOOL 23:05:26 no 23:05:29 err, yes, unasking is probably best for all concerned 23:05:29 gaaaaaaaaaaaaah 23:05:30 i refuse 23:05:32 the answer is mu, cpt_obvious 23:05:33 or I'll have to try to answer 23:05:37 there, I unasked it for you 23:05:41 Darn, his code works I think 23:06:01 I like to think my code's easier, but I'm less certain that it works 23:06:02 ehird, I don't have a compulsive disorder about writing down that I laughed about everything. 23:06:05 cpt_obvious: I suggest you ask in #feather-lang, I think it's empty atm so it'll be safe to ask 23:06:06 maybe that is what you meant 23:06:07 let me check, actually 23:06:18 AnMaster: err, just try and shift the mocking on to other people badly why don't you 23:06:19 sometimes I do notice jokes but never mention that :P 23:06:21 oh, not quite, ChanServ's in there 23:06:22 if only it workd 23:06:22 ed 23:06:32 erm 23:06:46 did i mention that i'm in a pub 23:06:51 yes, you did 23:06:54 he did? 23:07:00 which is another reason not to explain Feather right now 23:07:01 don't tell AnMaster 23:07:02 ais523, empty? I added it to autojoin now 23:07:12 explaining Feather to someone /who is drunk/ probably would cause a fatality 23:07:12 ais523: I don't know; alcohol may well improve perception of Feather 23:07:22 well, ok 23:07:24 i'm here with my boss an we're owning wifi networks and drinking :D 23:07:33 although hallucinogens would probably fare better 23:07:55 WTF is Feather 23:08:08 cpt_obvious: feather is like, like, like, a trip, except the drug is time, man 23:08:12 and it trips your code, man. 23:08:14 Got it? 23:08:17 Oh, retroactively. 23:08:18 Man. 23:08:27 cpt_obvious, it lets you redefine the language itself, while running 23:08:28 Infinite. (Man.) 23:08:31 AnMaster: er, no 23:08:32 that's trivial 23:08:35 AnMaster: that's boring, even Perl can do that 23:08:36 many languages have that 23:08:41 ehird, that is one part of it 23:08:43 it lets you redefine what the language /was/ retroactively 23:08:43 there is more yes 23:08:47 which is slightly different 23:08:49 AnMaster: no, that's totally misrepresenting it 23:08:50 and yes, there's more 23:08:52 ais523, I was about to get to that 23:08:59 do it step by step 23:09:00 the retroactivity's the whole point 23:09:01 whrea are the docs? 23:09:05 seeing as nothing in Feather can ever change 23:09:05 haha 23:09:07 cpt_obvious: there aren't any 23:09:11 cpt_obvious: /home/ais523/mind 23:09:13 at least, I wrote some but they were wrong 23:09:15 ah yes 23:09:23 please don't try and grep it; it's very painful I hear 23:09:43 ehird, /dev/ais523_mind .. duh 23:09:53 *pokes the esolang wikio* 23:09:54 Got a 100 on my C++ exam 23:09:57 AnMaster: err, that's bad hierarchy 23:10:00 isn't that right ais523? 23:10:01 vodka has simple system 23:10:01 slow... 23:10:11 -i 23:10:13 ehird, yes but that is because it is in a real OS 23:10:14 er -o 23:10:14 :P 23:10:23 AnMaster: what 23:10:28 ehird: I'm not sure if I'm in a /dev 23:10:34 it's like s/// regexp with some addons to change states while running 23:10:40 ais523: I said /home/ais523/mind 23:10:47 well, yes 23:10:47 AnMaster "corrected" it as /dev/ais523_mind, which is silly 23:10:53 they're both wrong, clearly 23:11:03 ehird, real OS have flaws. Weird bits, ideal on the paper ones maybe doesn't. But there are always some dark corners in any actually existing OS 23:11:03 you think I keep my mind in a /filesystem/? 23:11:26 AnMaster: er, there's nothing stopping you making /home/ais523/mind 23:11:32 as a device file 23:11:38 thinking otherwise is just ignorance 23:11:40 ais523, no, but there is a block device representing it 23:11:41 Well, since ais523 IS a dev[eloper] 23:11:47 he fits in /dev 23:11:48 really? 23:11:55 technically speaking, I'm an engineer 23:11:57 ehird, there is. /home mounted nodev 23:12:07 AnMaster: /dev mounted nodev 23:12:16 WHAT NOW! Oh wait, you set your file system up retardedly so you get retarded results. 23:12:16 ehird: haha, you should so do that someday 23:12:21 ehird, system wouldn't boot 23:12:27 AnMaster: why not? 23:12:27 AnMaster: who cares 23:12:29 it's SECURE like that! 23:12:33 and FAST! 23:12:37 I don't think there's any technical reason why you can't boot with /dev set nodev 23:12:38 Doing nothing is EXTRA SPEEDY. 23:12:43 If you need more you could BENCHMARK IT 23:12:52 ais523, /dev/console and /dev/null are needed at least for some core system parts. udev, init and a few other ones iirc 23:12:54 although it would depend on how your init worked 23:12:56 actually 23:13:04 AnMaster: init can be very simple 23:13:16 what you mean is /your/ system wouldn't boot, because your init is trying to be too clever 23:13:20 ais523, yeah but I meant on a GNU/Linux system 23:13:27 thought you used that? 23:13:33 well, yes 23:13:40 but even so, you can get inits that don't care about /dev 23:13:41 hm /dev/zero not /dev/null iirc 23:13:42 and then you can define delimiters 23:13:44 unsure 23:13:53 you could just set init to ash or something on the bootlodaer, for instance 23:14:07 ash? 23:14:13 for a string that compiles to the base language in a previously defined way 23:14:16 whats thats esotericlanguage with all the parenthesises called? 23:14:16 :P 23:14:19 ais523, it would want some tty I think 23:14:22 Sgeo[College]: one of the simplest shs around atm 23:14:27 and then in that language you can do the same etc etc 23:14:28 AnMaster: you can have a tty without having /dev available 23:14:28 ais523, not sure how that would be handled.. 23:14:33 obviously 23:14:33 dd if=/dev/random of=/dev/ais523_mind 23:14:35 (map (lambda (x)(* x x)) '(1 2 3)) 23:14:40 Sgeo[College]: EPERM, luckily 23:14:44 ais523, I guess kernel hands it over as an open fd? 23:14:58 actually invoking init would be weird I guess 23:14:58 I think so 23:15:04 although it's probably just the serial connection 23:15:18 ? 23:15:19 write a kernel in brainfuck,then you have secured maintenance work for the rest of your life=the wya IT works 23:15:21 and the kernel invokes init by setting up memory as if it was a userspace process, then simulating fork/exec 23:15:30 If EPERM means read-only, did you just say you never learn? 23:15:38 no, EPERM means you aren't allowed to do that 23:15:38 is writing a toy-kernel hard? 23:15:44 so it's read-only for you, but isn't for me 23:15:49 kadaver: not particularly 23:16:03 sudo dd if=/dev/random of=/dev/ais523_mind 23:16:04 in UNIX, how readable or writable a file is depends on who's reading or writing 23:16:07 the same in Windows, actually 23:16:14 Sgeo[College]: you aren't in the admin group for my mind 23:16:17 in fact, I don't think I am 23:16:26 ((:[]) . join (*)) =<< [1, 2, 3] 23:17:05 -!- Judofyr_ has joined. 23:18:37 ais523: how many LOC can you get away with doing something minimal? I heard the initial linux kernel linus released was just 10K loc 23:18:47 depends on how minimal 23:19:00 if all you want with your kernel is to run some minimal esolangs, you can do it well under a KB of machine code 23:19:14 asiekierka isn't here, but IIRC he was working on something like that 23:19:18 a live-esolang floppy disk 23:19:41 oh 23:19:46 i'm writing toy kernel 23:20:49 heh, it seems there's no working IRP interpreter currently 23:20:52 multiprocess kernel with a memory manager, own filesystem and multiple text terminal 23:20:56 and it sucks 23:21:00 ais523: well i guess it depends on how you define kernel. what would en esolang kernel need to be able to do? 23:21:08 Gracenotes: #IRP is actually surprisingly active today 23:21:15 normally it idles for weeks at a time 23:21:20 kadaver: run esolangs 23:21:23 hrm, really 23:21:26 and some esolangs have very small interps 23:21:39 Gracenotes: it seems some teacher's set a university project on IRP 23:21:45 and all the students have been coming in there asking for help 23:21:55 weirder things have happened, I suppose... 23:21:59 IRP? 23:22:01 ais523: I missed that? 23:22:06 Any logs? 23:22:22 it isn't logged, unfortunately 23:22:40 ah this IRP 23:22:40 but you saw the conversation with DH__, at least 23:23:08 -!- neldoreth has joined. 23:23:13 hmm... seems idle again 23:23:24 lecture's probably over 23:23:50 multiple text terminal = multiple windows? any graphics? 23:27:04 bbl 23:33:57 -!- Judofyr_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:35:25 -!- Judofyr has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 23:38:10 night 23:40:03 Nighty 23:40:42 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 23:43:41 ais523: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Perl 23:44:07 that's been there for a while 23:44:12 I'm not sure what to do about it 23:44:17 the article's also confusing, too 23:44:26 ais523: i was referring to the last section 23:44:28 which is new 23:44:33 oh 23:44:50 that can be golfed by at least three characters 23:45:02 probably four, actually 23:45:08 ais523: how? 23:45:12 apart from removing the space 23:45:13 which is boring 23:45:21 eval join"\n",<> 23:45:33 when all you can shave off is whitespace and a ;, it's not cool any more. 23:45:44 leaving them in is saying "I'm so good at golfing, I'm just going to leave this low-hanging fruit." 23:46:18 low-hanging fruit is generally the tastiest 23:46:27 ehird: heh 23:46:36 I was going to change the \n to a literal newline 23:46:40 that's what saves the last character 23:47:50 #!/usr/bin/env perl 23:47:50 # Released under the MIT license. 23:47:51 # 23:47:53 # TODO: add POD docs 23:47:55 use strict; 23:47:57 use warnings; 23:47:59 my @lines = <>; 23:48:01 my $code = join("\n", @lines); 23:48:03 Uh... why is the newline even needed there? I thought that if you do <> in a list context, the elements returned still contain any newlines present. 23:48:04 eval($code); 23:48:05 #- end of file - 23:48:07 damn, my whitespace was tarnished 23:48:09 #!/usr/bin/env perl 23:48:12 23:48:13 # Released under the MIT license. 23:48:15 # 23:48:17 # TODO: add POD docs 23:48:20 23:48:21 use strict; 23:48:24 use warnings; 23:48:25 23:48:27 my @lines = <>; 23:48:29 my $code = join("\n", @lines); 23:48:31 23:48:33 eval($code); 23:48:35 23:48:37 #- end of file - 23:48:39 fizzie: eval isn't in a list context is it 23:48:41 eval join <> just reads one line 23:48:43 since the first argument is the sep 23:48:48 fizzie: oh, you're right 23:48:57 Huh? join <> definitely uses <> in a list context. 23:49:04 yep 23:49:05 fizzie: perl -e'eval join <>' 23:49:07 only reads one line 23:49:10 I know this because _i tested it_ 23:49:12 Yes, but "". 23:49:16 Oh. 23:49:17 You don't need a newline. 23:49:18 Well, sure. 23:49:33 edited. 23:49:38 great, wiki formatting fucked it 23:49:53 Fixed. 23:49:59 perl -0e'eval(<>)' 23:50:03 considerably smaller again 23:50:07 ais523: no fair 23:50:12 that's using the command line 23:50:18 also, perl -0e'eval <>' is shorter still 23:50:19 oh, it doesn't need the parens 23:50:28 but `eval join '', <>;` doesn't use the command line, and is pretty 23:50:29 and perl -0e'eval<>' is shorter still 23:50:33 so THERE 23:50:35 the parens were to force list context 23:50:44 but you don't need list context there 23:51:12 ais523: what is the value of $x after: 23:51:20 sub foo { return (1, 2, 3); } 23:51:23 my $x = foo(); 23:51:25 ? 23:51:33 3 I think 23:51:38 x_x 23:51:41 foo returns an array, an array in scalar context returns its length 23:51:49 oh 23:51:53 I thought you meant last element 23:51:54 heh 23:52:00 no, that would be stupid 23:52:03 yes 23:52:11 fis@eris:~$ perl -e 'sub foo { return (1, 2, 3); } my $x = foo(); print "x $x\n";' 23:52:11 x 3 23:52:11 fis@eris:~$ perl -e 'sub foo { return (1, 1, 1); } my $x = foo(); print "x $x\n";' 23:52:11 x 1 23:52:25 Explain. 23:52:29 hmm... maybe I'm wrong 23:52:33 fizzie: guh 23:52:47 [ehird:~] % perl -e 'sub foo { return (1, 2, 7); } my $x = foo(); print "x $x\n";' 23:52:47 x 7 23:52:51 Yes — that would be, and is, stupid. 23:52:51 Ugh, I think I'm too tired to think properly 23:53:00 I really didn't think it'd actually return the last element. 23:53:06 The professor just put up his solution, and it's saner and less wtf'y than mine 23:53:06 what happens if you separate the my and the $x? 23:53:16 I mean, mine is a WTF 23:53:17 the my may be forcing list context 23:53:27 [ehird:~] % perl -e 'sub foo { return (1, 2, 7); } my $x; $x = foo(); print "x $x\n";' 23:53:27 x 7 23:53:33 aargh 23:53:34 [ehird:~] % perl -e 'sub foo { return (1, 2, 7); } $x = foo(); print "x $x\n";'x 7 23:53:40 FUCK PERL :-D 23:54:00 http://rafb.net/p/pqWjyX34.html 23:54:03 * Sgeo[College] slaps self 23:54:19 Sgeo[College]: NOT RAFB 23:54:29 Which pastebin? 23:54:35 Should I use? 23:54:38 Sgeo[College]: is that yours or the professors? 23:54:41 also, use rafb, it annoys ehird 23:54:43 ais523: mine 23:55:04 that's pretty elegant IMO, half the checks are redundant, but they make the code clearer 23:55:37 LOGGET READERS: http://www.nopaste.com/p/atKQKnKjab 23:55:47 First time writing it, I actually made the mistake of 90 <= num_grade <= 100 23:55:49 for example 23:55:56 python lets you do that 23:56:10 What is even weirder is this: 23:56:11 say, is there an efficient way to do 'round x up to the nearest power of 2?' 23:56:12 fis@eris:~$ perl -e 'sub foo { my @a = (1, 2, 7); return @a; } my $x; $x = foo(); print "x $x\n";' 23:56:12 x 3 23:56:18 -!- kadaver has left (?). 23:56:18 ehird: yep, see that bithacks thing 23:56:19 fizzie: LOL WAT 23:56:26 ais523: relinketj? 23:56:35 I guess "return @a" there is in a non-list context. Or what is happening? 23:56:41 fizzie: I've just figured it out 23:56:52 you're calling sub foo in a scalar context 23:56:53 [ehird:~] % perl -e 'sub foo { (1, 2, 7); } $x = foo(); print "x $x\n";' 23:56:53 x 7 23:56:58 -!- cpt_obvious has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 23:56:58 Does it use the comma expression instead of list there in the return (1, 2, 7)? 23:57:01 ais523: well sure and? 23:57:01 so you're writing return (1, 2, 7) 23:57:10 that means the return is evaluated in a scalar context 23:57:15 so that's the comma operator, not an array literal 23:57:15 and? 23:57:19 oh god 23:57:23 the subroutine parses differently depending on how you call it 23:57:24 that's just hideous 23:57:31 everyone loves Perl! 23:57:34 it changes your code semantics depending on how it's called? 23:57:34 Yeah, something like that was my guess too. Heh. 23:57:35 Is CADIE done putting links on the side? 23:57:37 good lord 23:57:41 can you imagine how much that breaks? 23:57:48 not very often, actually 23:57:59 ;_; 23:58:17 fis@eris:~$ perl -e 'sub foo { return (1, 2, 7); } my $x = foo(); my @x = foo(); print "x-scalar $x, x-list ", join(" ", @x), "\n";' 23:58:17 x-scalar 7, x-list 1 2 7 23:58:18 ais523: sorry, have an urge: i said how much, not how often 23:58:22 so your response is a non-sequitur 23:58:27 urge over 23:59:08 I think this sort of Perl nastiness is a nice point to go to sleep; night. 23:59:11 fizzie: and scalar @x would be 3, in that case 23:59:19 night 23:59:25 night