< 1239148811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wha < 1239148813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1239148835 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Based on a count of greek letters in this HMM-based paper, this one at least is very nontrivial. < 1239148858 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if if i sent you a song or two, do you think you might be able to identify its genre? < 1239148900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm i think anyone can do that i mean anyone who is not musically sheltered i think unless like you want me to determine precise metal subgenres < 1239148901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or like < 1239148904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of noise is this noise music ehird < 1239148905 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well he's ehird what can't he do? < 1239148909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that i would not be able to do probably < 1239148946 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't determine genres < 1239148956 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :except a few trivial ones < 1239148961 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ill throw it to you and oklopol < 1239148974 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol_, ehird can't make PSOX magically disappear < 1239148979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: no i can < 1239148980 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err i can't actually listen to anything atm < 1239148983 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but go ahead... < 1239148986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well not magically i can do it scientifically?? < 1239149017 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol_: Can you distinguish all of http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_electronic_music_genres < 1239149033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Hey the finn guy wrote a thing all about that didn't he < 1239149039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you finns should be very good at it < 1239149050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could probably distinguish like 3-5 electronic musical subgenreificationerams < 1239149053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yams < 1239149073 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i don't know the difference between rap and hip hop < 1239149091 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I probably wouldn't know Nitzhonot from Psybient. (According to the list, those two are both subgenres.) < 1239149117 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol_: well isn't rapping part of hip hop music < 1239149118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think?? < 1239149129 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol < 1239149132 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Trip-hip-hop-a-pop-pop. < 1239149135 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rap is a vocal styling < 1239149139 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hiphop is a kind of breakbeat. < 1239149147 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive_: breakbeat? < 1239149151 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1239149166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So give song psygnisfive_ ? < 1239149174 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive_: what's that i mean < 1239149177 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i generally go by ishkur's guide as _the_ taxonomy: < 1239149178 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://techno.org/electronic-music-guide/ < 1239149182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ishkur < 1239149183 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so go there and look up breakbeat < 1239149184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the finn guy < 1239149196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err the thing in that page is tiny < 1239149206 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://techno.org/electronic-music-guide/music.swf < 1239149208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thar < 1239149210 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://techno.org/electronic-music-guide/music.swf < 1239149211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah < 1239149213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the finn guy! < 1239149213 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1239149218 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hes canadian. < 1239149223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1239149224 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1239149227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :his moniker < 1239149229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is finn-ish < 1239149230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i declare < 1239149231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :him < 1239149232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an < 1239149233 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember seeing a link. I have no clue about nationality. < 1239149234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :honorary < 1239149236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finn < 1239149236 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it's a genre. < 1239149237 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not finn-ish < 1239149241 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesnt have enough vowels < 1239149245 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or umlauts < 1239149251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no as a nick < 1239149251 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ïïshkuur < 1239149264 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We don't have ï. :( < 1239149272 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wellnowwhat.net/transfers/OldFlame.mp3 < 1239149275 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wellnowwhat.net/transfers/Dimensions.mp3 < 1239149277 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor sh < 1239149282 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wellnowwhat.net/transfers/SandovalsRun.mp3 < 1239149286 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any of those three < 1239149287 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk < 1239149309 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :genres are a stupid idea anyway < 1239149332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wellnowwhat.net/transfers/OldFlame.mp3 ← ambient. < 1239149347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://wellnowwhat.net/transfers/Dimensions.mp3 ← more ambient. < 1239149349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this stuff sucks < 1239149353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no < 1239149355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't ambient later on < 1239149356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know < 1239149357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just shit < 1239149360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't classify shit < 1239149361 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1239149372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like < 1239149374 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what animal made this < 1239149377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then pointing to a huge pile of shi < 1239149377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1239149380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't fucking know man < 1239149425 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know elephant, dog, cat, rabbit, certain birds, list goes on and on < 1239149513 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : o < 1239149526 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh and horse ofc < 1239149554 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: how many dimensions were there? < 1239149555 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Llllizards. Weren't you one? < 1239149561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol_: 7 < 1239149575 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: lizards don't poo < 1239149576 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1239149588 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why don't you take like a dictionary and learn some biology < 1239149601 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: how old was the flame? < 1239149614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol_: est 19:37 < 1239149615 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: lizards do reverse osmosis < 1239149634 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is a bit filthy < 1239149646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol_: no more questions?? < 1239149833 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird stop hatin' on EFC music :P < 1239149851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EFC? < 1239149855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that stand for < 1239149857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :effing fucking crap < 1239149859 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :earth: final conflict < 1239149860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think it does < 1239149869 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like the music, shut up. >.< < 1239149886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol_: i'll answer: the run was long < 1239149948 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if you had to GUESS < 1239149950 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what kind of music would it be < 1239149961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive_: it's not music, it's soundtrack < 1239149966 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it is < 1239149967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean it doesn't fit into any genre < 1239149967 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1239149972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it isn't really music as such < 1239149974 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no it DOES < 1239149979 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ive heard music like that elsewhere < 1239149986 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, often in other soundtracks or similar things < 1239149991 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1239149993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds like mark oldfield, to be frank. < 1239149997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er is that his name < 1239149998 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its not just "Soundtrack Music" < 1239149999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know his nam < 1239149999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1239150001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you know < 1239150003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that guy < 1239150003 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mark oldfield? < 1239150009 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will look. < 1239150012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mike_Oldfield < 1239150014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :him < 1239150017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sounds like his crap < 1239150038 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh. maybe his non-dance stuff? < 1239150038 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am here still? < 1239150040 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm 20 seconds lag. so i guess no. < 1239150044 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: eroijg < 1239150044 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol_: i think i'll still make that " without a good name < 1239150046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol_: hi < 1239150061 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could easily be some sort of newage/neofolk/etc kind of stuff < 1239150062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive_: what is the genre, anyway? < 1239150065 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1239150066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly < 1239150066 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :new age < 1239150068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i meant < 1239150071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate that genre < 1239150099 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cant find any newage that sounds liek that tho < 1239150102 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the newage i find is like < 1239150106 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :enya stuff < 1239150109 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this isnt enya-like < 1239150115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mike oldfield is very like that < 1239150128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tacky shit like you'd find in the background of a shitty documentary, like about the planets or something < 1239150132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on discovery channel < 1239150132 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must be his non-dance stuff < 1239150133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plastic music < 1239150135 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah man! < 1239150140 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats exactly the stuff! < 1239150154 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the artists for this did the music for the Earth IMAX movie < 1239150176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EXACTLY < 1239150179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's SHITE < 1239150180 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love this kind of music. precisely BECAUSE its all planet documentary like < 1239150185 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i LOVE those documentaries < 1239150185 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1239150193 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i miss them, actually. noone does them anymore. they were like < 1239150198 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"artists" < 1239150202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's kind of elevating them < 1239150205 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :early 90s "science is so cool!" type stuff < 1239150220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SCIENCE = CHICKS < 1239150222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wut < 1239150226 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1239150233 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its very like < 1239150241 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :science is wondrous and such < 1239150251 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if oldfield is the kind of stuff im looking for < 1239150255 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will uh... < 1239150259 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you want me to do < 1239150273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get better tastes < 1239150278 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides that < 1239150284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ummmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm < 1239150285 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :science is no longer cool :( < 1239150294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this like with 3 wish genies wwhere I can ask for infinite wishes psygnisfive_? < 1239150294 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these days, only gay sex is cool < 1239150295 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: we must make it cool again! < 1239150310 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no < 1239150318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1239150334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well. < 1239150349 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmph, i located my music gear, but i can't load old flame :< < 1239150366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're not missing anything < 1239150371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact you're anti-missing things < 1239150390 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keep trying oklopol < 1239150390 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1239150393 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hey < 1239150396 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol is finnish < 1239150401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1239150402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just realiesd? < 1239150404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :realised < 1239150405 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that means leak spin is his national anthem! < 1239150417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i < 1239150418 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1239150419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really don't think so < 1239150425 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure is < 1239150426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also it's leekspin < 1239150426 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he just said yes. < 1239150431 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1239150435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is not a leakage spinning around < 1239150437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be ridiculous < 1239150440 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION spins ehirds leek < 1239150441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :leakage is an abstract concept < 1239150448 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is true, ehird. < 1239150463 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's just used to typing meat spin cuz he's kinda gay. < 1239150473 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very true < 1239150478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't get how meatspin lemonparty etc are shocksites < 1239150480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're just porn < 1239150484 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION spins oklopol_'s meat < 1239150488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay lemonparty is old people, gross factor, i get it < 1239150502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but meatspin is just a tranny. that's like, mainstream < 1239150505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how is that a shock site < 1239150514 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is meatspin even tranny? < 1239150520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think so < 1239150532 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ages since i saw it < 1239150559 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it isn't < 1239150569 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a twirly dick < 1239150584 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a guy who wears skimpy undies when tanning < 1239150609 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, it could easily be a transwoman < 1239150622 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can't take this obscene scene < 1239150627 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have to leave < 1239150631 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1239150632 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk going to ikea < 1239150636 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1239150637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait wait < 1239150638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive_: < 1239150640 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have an ikea like < 1239150642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RIGHT THERE?? < 1239150642 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1239150643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy fuck < 1239150645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1239150647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want ikeas like < 1239150648 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1239150649 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its maybe like < 1239150649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :next to my house < 1239150651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i would go eery da < 1239150652 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 miles away < 1239150652 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1239150653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y < 1239150655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NO < 1239150657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you ruined it < 1239150660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you destroyed my life < 1239150661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god damn < 1239150663 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ill take you with me on my phone < 1239150668 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :give me your screenname < 1239150670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am in a phone now? < 1239150673 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: so go to sweden < 1239150673 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :youll be at ikea, but by proxy < 1239150678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :screenname? < 1239150681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like on what < 1239150690 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aim < 1239150699 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :upp! too late < 1239150700 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im out < 1239150701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't use aim < 1239150701 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye! < 1239150717 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no ikea proxy for you! < 1239150728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1239150733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive_: can't you use irc on your phone < 1239150742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it an iphone, colloquy is on the app store, it's free you know. < 1239150746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm guessing it's an iphone because you're a mac fag. < 1239150810 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1239150811 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If WINE was perfect, I'd be a Linux person < 1239150819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: lern2vm < 1239150821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lern2dualboot < 1239150828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lern2googletogetwineworkingwhenitdoesn't < 1239150836 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vm is useless in this case >.> < 1239150837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lern2usenativelinuxreplacement < 1239150837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1239150849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's no justification for using windows as your default day to day OS < 1239150850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatsoever < 1239150869 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what if I want to play various MMORPGs day to day? < 1239150879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: use a vm, or wine < 1239150885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[and stop being an mmorpg addict]] < 1239150887 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MMORPGs that might be difficult or impossible to get running in WINE, and which are 3d < 1239150890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, there are vms with 3d accelleration < 1239150896 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, where? < 1239150902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: virtualbox, I believe < 1239150906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vmware probably have something for that now too < 1239150910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's becoming commonplace < 1239150981 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would there be a way to take the OS currently running, and put it in a VM? So that I don't need another copy or a cracked copy of XP? < 1239150994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erm do you have the CD? < 1239151006 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No < 1239151013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not < 1239151033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also if you don't have the cd put the partition on a flash drive or sth then import that into the vm? < 1239151037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :taht may be illegal anyway < 1239151042 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh < 1239151044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gettign a pirated copy would be a lot easier < 1239151083 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't feel comfortable ever putting a password in a pirated anything < 1239151094 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This includes MMORPG passwords < 1239151101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :l o l < 1239151121 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Incidentally, why would I want to go through this effort, just to not use Windows? < 1239151121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: There's a problem here, and it exists somewhere, and one endpoint of it is the chair. < 1239151131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll let you figure out the other endpoint. < 1239151141 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1239151267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: and because keeping things that absolutely need windows in their cage of dung lets you not use windows elsewhere < 1239151275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if you need telling why windows is bad, uh, hopeless case. < 1239151313 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, my understanding is: Crashy and malwarey and not easy to use < 1239151342 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there anything else wrong with Windows? < 1239151376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The business behind it is quite frankly immoral and doesn't care about customers. The OS is full of legacy cruft and was badly designed from the start. It is unstable, and instead of fixing security problems, they make you run a program that *detects things trying to exploit them and deletes them* -- what a stupid "fix". And the UI is awful. < 1239151383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't really think of a way in which Windows is _not_ bad. < 1239151481 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qwerty is bad < 1239151489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your mom is bad < 1239151557 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is Freespire considered evil? < 1239151560 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I can't think of any way that Qwerty is not bad. The only reason people use it is because of the great share of the market < 1239151580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: Freespire is, uh, just not good. It doesn't have advantages and it tries too hard to be Windows. < 1239151588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you want something that Just Works, ubuntu does an excellent job. < 1239151589 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it's the same as with Windows, only that the margins are closer < 1239151601 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about Linux Mint? < 1239151607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: what's wrong with ubuntu < 1239151609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux mint is ubuntu-based < 1239151613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and doesn't really add anything < 1239151616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and has a small community = worse support < 1239151633 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I get bored easily. I spent 3 years (iirc) on Ubuntu < 1239151656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only recommend based on goodness, not boredom-whims, so I'm not sure I can help. < 1239151720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: ubuntu has changed a lot recently < 1239151721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO < 1239151805 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, I should try KDE4 at some point < 1239151821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KDE4 is nice. I prefer GNOME these days tho. < 1239152190 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1239152210 0 :Mony!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-83-144.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1239152216 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION desperately wants more OOTS < 1239152240 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Guest98422 < 1239152242 0 :Guest98422!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1239152252 0 :Guest98422!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1239152430 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH CRAP < 1239152445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1239152445 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think someone on deviantart thinks someone tried to gain unauthorized access < 1239152455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... who gives a shit? What? < 1239152459 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did the Lost Password thing on DA, for username Sgeo < 1239152462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(1) which someone < 1239152467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2) who gives a shit about deviantart < 1239152468 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There really is a Sgeo on DA that isn't me < 1239152468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(3) so? < 1239152472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(4) who cares? < 1239152478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(5) why is it "OH CRAP" < 1239152490 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DA might investigate? < 1239152505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and put you in jail for clicking remember password for an account that wasn't yours by mistake? < 1239152509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH THE HUGE MANATEE!!! < 1239154494 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1239156968 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OH IKEA < 1239156971 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO SO GREAT < 1239157204 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THEREFORE YOU EAT BABIES < 1239157230 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do. < 1239157234 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :babies are delicious. < 1239159140 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm daim < 1239163354 0 :psygnisfive_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1239163445 0 :cherez!n=cherez@r02snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1239163445 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1239163704 0 :cherez!n=cherez@r02snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1239163713 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1239164283 0 :cherez!n=cherez@r02snw275.device.mst.edu JOIN :#esoteric < 1239164437 0 :cherez!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1239168092 0 :calamari_!n=calamari@ip70-171-213-254.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1239168205 0 :calamari_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :calamari < 1239168396 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION verifies that the channel is off topic < 1239168664 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1239168914 0 :psygnisfive!n=psygnisf@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1239172542 0 :calamari-!n=calamari@ip70-171-213-254.tc.ph.cox.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1239172670 0 :calamari!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1239173192 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1239177599 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1239177600 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1239179871 0 :calamari-!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1239180735 0 :Mony!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-83-144.w90-60.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1239180771 0 :Mony!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :Guest30651 < 1239181083 0 :Guest30651!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :M0ny < 1239181360 0 :tombom!n=tombomp@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1239181566 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1239183343 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1239183352 0 :neldoreth!n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth JOIN :#esoteric < 1239184815 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=BeholdMy@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1239185216 0 :psygnisf_!n=psygnisf@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1239185216 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1239186340 0 :Asztal_!n=asztal@host86-156-198-140.range86-156.btcentralplus.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1239187609 0 :oklopol_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1239187998 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1239188113 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=BeholdMy@d83-183-183-70.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1239188206 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"X-Chat -> http://xchat.org <- At least when I quit I don't look like a lamer" < 1239188493 0 :MigoMipo!i=c1b7fd21@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-9820dcc0c6e4f898 JOIN :#esoteric < 1239190077 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1239190196 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client" < 1239195111 0 :neldoreth!n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth JOIN :#esoteric < 1239198359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1239198373 0 :ehird!n=ehird@208.78.103.223 JOIN :#esoteric < 1239198376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1239198380 0 :ehird!n=ehird@208.78.103.223 JOIN :#esoteric < 1239198381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1239198385 0 :ehird!n=ehird@208.78.103.223 JOIN :#esoteric < 1239198874 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1239199213 0 :neldoreth!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1239199311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders if it is insane to change the feature test macros between including system headers < 1239199355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :example #define _GNU_SOURCE\n#include #undef _GNU_SOURCE\n#include < 1239199360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like tha < 1239199362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that* < 1239199369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that will break things in undefined ways. < 1239199382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what I suspected then. < 1239199388 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I don't know for a fact < 1239199392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd just be incredibly surprised if it didn't < 1239199415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I can't see any reason to do that thing < 1239199416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/std/sku=floppy_drive.html ← but is the floppy drive silent?!?!?! < 1239199430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol do people buy floppy drives? < 1239199448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I can't see the CD being silent either < 1239199464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Overstock" heh < 1239199468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cd drives generally are quiet once they get going < 1239199474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :floppy drives are a KRRRRRRRRRNK KNK KNK KNK KRRRRRRRNK < 1239199477 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :affair < 1239199488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why have you got a CD in anyway, apart from to rip it :-) < 1239199490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or install an os < 1239199504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, on non-macs you sometimes use floppies to update bios, or if using windows xp, to provide SATA drivers during install < 1239199510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that would be about all I think < 1239199521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :These come without a floppy drive configured < 1239199526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1239199529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't you update the BIOS from a CD? < 1239199531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see why not < 1239199538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, probably you can with newer ones < 1239199565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I still need to figure out how to tell the BIOS "shut up and boot the OS" :-) < 1239199601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well there is usually some "fast boot" option on by default < 1239199602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1239199612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I mean more the page of output they all give < 1239199622 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is relevant to absolutely no-one who isn't trying to fix a BIOS problem < 1239199650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or "non-verbose, but fill screen with BIOS manufacture's logo in low resolution instead" < 1239199662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh my shit WinFast board did that! < 1239199669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm? < 1239199676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :old motherboard I had < 1239199710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, usually it is the default even, and you have to manually turn on verbose output to get rid of that logo < 1239199720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION prevers verbose output over messy logo < 1239199723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not the default on older mobos < 1239199727 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1239199779 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw I saw a server bios (using a kvm) that waited with a prompt like "press 1 to enter options, 2 to continue to boot", luckily with a 10 second timeout < 1239199783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still quite wtfy < 1239199793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: reminds me of GRUB's default settings < 1239199814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"SINCE YOU HAVE FAILSAFE AND MEMTEST VARIANTS I WILL SIT HERE FOR 15 SECONDS WAITING FOR YOU TO NOT CHOOSE THEM" < 1239199816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well yes, many bootloaders do something like that, but for a bios it is rather unusual < 1239199827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for grub silent and 0sec timeout ftw < 1239199834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(just hammer ESC :-)) < 1239199870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I would suggest a 3 second timeout or so, in case you do need to select other options, and also the grub menu allows you to edit existing options (hit e iirc) < 1239199881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like I said, hammer ESC < 1239199888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The situation's rare enough that I'd prefer a fast boot < 1239199892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although rebooting is rare too < 1239199908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hammering esc works with a 0 timeout? < 1239199942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure, you just grab it while it's working out what to do < 1239199943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also I like fast boot, but an extra 3 seconds doesn't bother me, since it makes it easier in case of issues. < 1239199957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also,* < 1239199959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 1s timeout may be better < 1239199964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you don't have to hammer it and get lucky < 1239199964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1239199984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coreboot is quite appealing to me. < 1239199994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For the fast linux bootup < 1239199998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But really, I never reboot < 1239200006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from upgrades < 1239200016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed 1 sec could work, if my screen didn't do so slow mode switching (yet people complain about slow mode switching under linux, but it is no faster under windows or during boot anyway) < 1239200032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least in my experience) < 1239200042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, then you would like kexec < 1239200054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :upgrade kernel without reboot, old kernel starts new one < 1239200057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you skip BIOS < 1239200080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kernel upgrades aren't too frequent enough for me to mess with that... < 1239200080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand, running the self test bit in BIOS sometimes may be a good idea, hardware does fail sometimes. < 1239200105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'sides, rebooting is an excuse to trash the dormant windows lying around :-) < 1239200114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so is kexec < 1239200125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't keep apps running < 1239200133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you only skip bios and bootloader < 1239200137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rest is the same < 1239200146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1239200153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That'd only save a second or two. :P < 1239200157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it stable? < 1239200171 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc it is "mostly stable" < 1239200185 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is some hardware that doesn't like being reinitialised without a reboot or such < 1239200196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so YMMV < 1239200239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION 's happy that Google App Engine does java now < 1239200241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, for example, kexec worked on my old computer, but not on this, but I haven't tried it again since 2.6.20 or so < 1239200245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(since you can presumably use any jvm language) < 1239200252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and some hardware have changed since then < 1239200261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: mm < 1239200292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could wait 5 minutes to boot, really, as long as I had hibernate < 1239200319 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, kexec is also used nowdays to start a rescue kernel in the case of an oops, a special kernel compiled to just dump the core and shut down. < 1239200332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case the file system stuff is corrupted in the oopsing kernel < 1239200342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er journaling fses prevent that don't they < 1239200362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what if journaling code got corrupted in whatever caused the oops < 1239200370 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or the disk controller driver < 1239200375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the logic behind it < 1239200379 0 :neldoreth!n=user@unixboard/users/neldoreth JOIN :#esoteric < 1239200384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1239200409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you use an older, stable kernel as dumping one, while testing last rc < 1239200411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1239200426 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(but if you test last rc you probably got a debugger over serial set up anyway meh) < 1239200535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks computer shopping list stack-stack. Top item: {router,kb,mouse} < 1239200546 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((My in-brain organization system is weird.)) < 1239200609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, router's easy. < 1239200682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.amazon.co.uk/Linksys-WRT54GL-Wireless-G-Broadband-Router/dp/B000ETX928/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1239197068&sr=8-1 < 1239200682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tada. < 1239200687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, didn't you say you liked your flat apple keyboard? < 1239200708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm not so sure it would work with the new system; bluetooth and all that. < 1239200716 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah... < 1239200724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, recently it seems to be requiring more pressure to hit the keys, which is a bit awkward on my hands. < 1239200777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, may require cleaning? < 1239200786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps < 1239200792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all keys do it though < 1239200795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consistently < 1239200827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe that greasy thing often found in the plastic shafts for the keys in keyboards have dried up? < 1239200842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've taken keycaps off before; no grease here. < 1239200856 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe that is the issue? ;) < 1239200860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe you just typed too much and is tired in your hands?~ < 1239201529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The ViewSonic VX2835wm 28” multimedia LCD display comes with [...] a proprietary display technology" < 1239201536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, marketing department. < 1239201581 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=BeholdMy@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1239201616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ew < 1239201619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it;s only 80dpi < 1239201625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perverse < 1239201835 0 :oklopol!n=ville@a91-153-121-248.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1239202141 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sony's (very-full-of-proprietary-technology) Vaio P has a 8" (diagonal) screen, with a 1600x768-pixel resolution; that's sqrt(1600^2+768^2)/8 ≈ 222 dots per inch. < 1239202147 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That should be more to your tastes. < 1239202166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1239202183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have heard of 300 dpi screens < 1239202195 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just want a ~30" screen with >1920x1200 res < 1239202210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Preferably dvi < 1239202229 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The printer I have in my basement does 72 LPI, I think. < 1239202258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc some greyscale only TFT at an insane price, "no dead pixels" warranty, 100% sealed, meant for use at hospitals iirc < 1239202279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my dad has an old black and white slow as fuck huge whirring printer that prints to bad quality paper with punched holes on the side < 1239202282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's *awesome* < 1239202297 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a 9-pin dot matrix thing, and I think it supported the 8-lines-per-inch line spacing mode. I used to have dot matrix art on the walls back when I lived alone in Vantaa. < 1239202322 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Had to write the conversion-to-printer-data-routine myself, since the lines were a bit overlapping. :p < 1239202345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you're making me feel like i wasted my life again < 1239202347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop it. < 1239202353 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had http://isometric.sixsided.org/data/strips/only_when_youre_ready/21.gif printed. :p < 1239202363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why couldn't i have been born 10 years earlier < 1239202390 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny, I have the exact same feelings. Besides, living in a PC household, I almost completely missed the Commodore age. < 1239202564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION grew up in a mac household < 1239202602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1239202604 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least you mac people had that paper airplane game. :p < 1239202607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I, uh, grew up in a PC household, but it's not as if anyone else used the computer. < 1239202613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I don't remember that... < 1239202616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it was mine :-P < 1239202640 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, it's probably not very famous; I just remember seeing it at the place of a a mac-household friend. < 1239202642 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hey, a Apple Classic cost a lot back then < 1239202644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an* < 1239202660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah, and? < 1239202689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that was way before we had internet, when the mac had a floppy drive. AND NO CD DRIVE! < 1239202696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The consensus was that the Classic was only useful for word processing, spreadsheets and databases." < 1239202697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thrilling. < 1239202706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I didn't have the internet until 1998 :-P < 1239202708 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is what my dad did with it basically < 1239202711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or thereabouts. < 1239202720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm 1996 or 1997 or so here I think < 1239202749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe closer to 2000; the ISP (freeserve) was founded in 1998. < 1239202757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the old 28.8k modem is still around somewhere. < 1239202757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was like 4-6. < 1239202761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure. < 1239202770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"but merged into the Wanadoo group in 2000" < 1239202774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1239202776 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember what the early PCs we had cost; I'm not sure I ever asked, either. I do remember that the 486sx/33 was around 13000 FIM, which would mean about 2190 eur, discounting inflation completely. < 1239202778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did it change name to wanadoo then? < 1239202780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, no < 1239202826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1239202827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks < 1239202833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got my pc when I was 3 < 1239202837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then internet 2 years after < 1239202842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So PC 1998, interweb 2000 < 1239202852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The PC ran windows 3.11 :-P < 1239202889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tell you, Windows 3.1 was *awful* < 1239202902 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You don't have to tell me, I've been there. < 1239202905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1239202910 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows 1 wasn't that great either. < 1239202918 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only split-screen windowing, for one thing. < 1239202929 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it did have that Reversi game. < 1239202952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using Windows, w-w-w-windows 386 < 1239202956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So all my applications are running at once < 1239202961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :( http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4915875929930836239 ) < 1239202990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Winchicagodesktop.png Early windows 95 < 1239203001 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if I could deduce our Internet days from the operator things. We had EUnet's strange connection (SLIP with static IP, they gave the public "username.pp.fi" DNS+ip for all customers; oh, and there was a cheaper "only Finnish traffic allowed" option, you had to pay extra for international internet) for a while, maybe not more than a year or so... then we migrated to Dystopia, and that lasted also a year or so before sci.fi ate it; then again a bit late < 1239203001 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :r sci.fi, DLC and some other Finnish ISP formed Saunalahti, which still exists. < 1239203008 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe google knows when all this happened. < 1239203009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got my own computer when I was 9 or so, and internet only a few years later < 1239203021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also. < 1239203022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tGvHNNOLnCk < 1239203027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This explains much about MSFT. < 1239203042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we had dial-up until 2004 or so iirc < 1239203058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I got broadband after 2004. < 1239203062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1239203079 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, long distance internet?... < 1239203086 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes. Great, eh? < 1239203091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :crazy indeed < 1239203125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, did they somehow ensure in-country packages didn't get routed outside < 1239203138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/packages/packets/ < 1239203146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Long distance internet? Reminds me of that age-old bash quote. < 1239203151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, same < 1239203152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuckin' Europe's so expensive. < 1239203170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was what I was referring to even < 1239203173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1239203188 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Locanet. < 1239203191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not very catchy. < 1239203202 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't know, must've been some sort of routing trick. Maybe they only allowed traffic over the Finnish Internet exchange (ficix) and relied that their ficix-peers wouldn't carry their non-local traffic anywhere. < 1239203238 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fickicks! < 1239203253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1239203256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1239203259 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, there's a magazine article from 1998 which says that "Dystopia was sold to Clarinet a year ago", so that was 1997. Too bad I can't really estimate how long the Dystopia- and EUnet times were. < 1239203260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only .fi wouldn't be too restrictive < 1239203266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since .fi were interwebs early adopters. < 1239203288 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EUnet's network connection came with some version of Mosaic on a floppy, but I've forgotten which it was. < 1239203289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, email then < 1239203303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still could easily be routed outside, lists and such < 1239203309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I started with MSIE5. I think < 1239203333 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe they allowed global email, can't remember. < 1239203343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TALK TO YOUR PEERS < 1239203343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^I < 1239203344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooh yes I still have the floppies with Netscape 2 for Mac around iirc, from 1996 or so < 1239203345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTERNATIONALLY! < 1239203347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^I < 1239203364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I remember having a fucked up view of the windows/mac world < 1239203365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Specifically: < 1239203379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The big box saying PowerPC was a PC emulator that macs come with. < 1239203379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And < 1239203384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows uses IE, macs use Netscape. < 1239203389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So on, so forth. < 1239203402 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well this was way before first IE for mac anyway < 1239203451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The big box saying PowerPC was a PC emulator that macs come with. <-- how did you come up with that conclusion < 1239203473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's not the same shape/size as a PC tower, and it has "PC" on. The "Power" bit is like, giving PC power to macs. < 1239203479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought the actual mac tower was on the floor or sth, I didn't look < 1239203480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1239203484 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think there was a Netscape back then, so the internetization must've been around '94 or so. < 1239203494 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it appeared pretty soon. < 1239203498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you weren't the type who asked then I guess < 1239203507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Oh, I was, but this was at my cousins or sth < 1239203512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I was young < 1239203515 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1239203520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And also, I was always right on the matters of computers < 1239203532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(because everyone else around me had even less of a clue) < 1239203548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.D < 1239203550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D* < 1239203591 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spam subject-line: "Need real anti-fungal?" First association was some sort of opposite-of-Befunge thing. < 1239203928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, Vista was only released in 2007? < 1239203936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was sure the horror had gone on for longer than that < 1239204184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: isn't ksplice more popular than kexec? < 1239204758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, they do different things though < 1239204763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, sure. < 1239204775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems like ksplice forces you to rely on them more, to make their updates compatible. < 1239204782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, kexec basically has no advantages over rebooting. < 1239204789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1239204795 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't use either < 1239204816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a fully replaceable microkernel < 1239204839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can upgrade between major versions without restarting programs or disconnecting from irc and so on < 1239204852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://tunes.org/wiki/microkernel.html < 1239204866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not the right solution for hotswapping. < 1239204883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1239204927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The correct solution -- or, at least, as correct as I can think of -- < 1239204929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, Synthesis+Genera+QNX+Plan9, yeah I know they are too different for it to make sense to try to combine them, but still... < 1239204935 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is to have the kernel be "Just Another Library" < 1239204939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And have hotswappable libraries < 1239204940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm interesting < 1239204956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Replace the kernel, everything else suddenly calls the new version. Got an app that needs an old version of a kernel? Sorry, you can't upgrade without closing it (obviously) < 1239204962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, you need something in ring 0 to handle process scheduling at least < 1239204972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Sure, if that happens, you have to reboot. < 1239204972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but very nice idea < 1239204977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nooo! < 1239204978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1239204983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well < 1239204985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can you not? < 1239204991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd have to kill all processes no matter what < 1239205045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well < 1239205050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: unless it just tweaked scheduling, and nothing else < 1239205053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you could hotpatch i < 1239205054 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1239205079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, with a good language with a sophisticated dependency and library system, you could swap the kernel and core libraries without even restarting applications and they'd use them < 1239205084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 1) suspend all processes, possibly seralise to a single cpu 2) load new process scheduler code 3) transfer control to data-translator function which converts data structures to a new format if needed 4) jump into new scheduler, resume processes and so on < 1239205097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do same for every component < 1239205102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, memory manager or whatever < 1239205107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't be easy, true < 1239205109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: by the time you do that I've rebooted, and all my processes are back because my system has orthogonal persistence < 1239205122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that could mitigate the issue indeed < 1239205133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yours is 10x more complex for not having to lose IRC connection for ~10sec :-) < 1239205141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but what about critical systems, that you can't reboot, say a nuclear powerplant control system or whatever < 1239205151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Why are you upgrading their kernel < 1239205167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Upgrading them in general is asking for disaster unless you do it in a very careful, custom way < 1239205172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1239205180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe they need a bug fix or something < 1239205189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Work around it < 1239205193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess so < 1239205200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, why are you using a kernel < 1239205210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely nuclear powerplant controlsystems are 100% handcoded < 1239205222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't really rely on anything except 100% understanding of the code < 1239205272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, in support of my point: "Microkernels start from the (Right) idea of having modular high-level system design, and confuse the issue so as to end with the (Wrong) idea of its naive implementation as a low-level centralized run-time module manager, which constitutes a horrible abstraction inversion." — Tunes Wiki < 1239205299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, using a real time OS might be a good idea for stability, a monolithic system would risk crashing all if one part crashed < 1239205321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I recall a quote... paraphrasing from memory, "'Operating system' is a term for everything that didn't fit into the language." < 1239205333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so using multiple processes would be a good idea, still bad if something crashing, but better than monolithic crash < 1239205344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and redundant systems of course and so on < 1239205363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will never work on a nuclear powerplant/hospital computers, etc. < 1239205368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have too much of a conscience < 1239205419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about braking handling computers in cars, those "electronic stability" thingies, iirc QNX is quite common there < 1239205434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :QNX kind of seems overboard for that, but that could work. < 1239205449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's less of a conscience-issue, since, you know, we drove perfectly fine before newfangled cars. < 1239205473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the original nuclear reactors didn't use computers either < 1239205483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though there is a difference yes) < 1239205485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yes. < 1239205491 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if the nuclear reactor computer dies, boom. < 1239205503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If your fancy car stabalizer thingymajig stops, I assume you can still drive in the Good Ol' Way. < 1239205582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you would have multiple fail safe backup computer systems, and if they didn't all come up with the same result you would 1) report error so technicians could fix it 2) for now, follow the result the majority if the fail safe systems ended up with < 1239205591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yss < 1239205595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just explaining the difference < 1239205596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc that is how it is done for fly-by-wire in some modern aircrafts < 1239205648 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the fancy car stabalizer thingymajig could fail in a way that made your brakes useless though, potentially. < 1239205657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1239205775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway, surely you agree it would be cool to perform upgrades without reboot < 1239205780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it would be a lot of work < 1239205781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, and I said how :-P < 1239205806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only thing you can't do is stuff that would change fundamentally how the current programs's operation would start < 1239205840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, can be solved. < 1239205851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, but it comes down to a reboot < 1239205859 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no there is another way < 1239205861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh? < 1239205862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :run everything in a managed environment < 1239205871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you would have to re-JIT yes < 1239205887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think that would work too well < 1239205895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you could change data structures and so on, even those visible to user space < 1239205912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then I mean, as in grow the size or whatever < 1239205921 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's not really what I ment < 1239205942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean if you fundamentally change the process model < 1239205948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can't hotswap that buy definitoin < 1239205971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wouldn't that come down to recompiling against new ABI even < 1239205982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may have misunderstood exactly what you meant though < 1239205984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compiling? ABI? Excuse me? ☺ < 1239206000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Sorry, can't resist contravarsy.) < 1239206015 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well of course the managed solution would fix that < 1239206030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm talking of an environment already like that < 1239206045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, in practise what does "fundamentally change the process model" boil down to. < 1239206045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One environment with a sophisticated library dependency system < 1239206057 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Regarding hospital software and "100% handcoded": http://sunnyday.mit.edu/papers/therac.pdf < 1239206058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It boils down to restructuring the entire kernel :P < 1239206068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Yes, that ol' thing. < 1239206103 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a depressing read. < 1239206106 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm Computer Modern with an uneven base I think... < 1239206121 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahah < 1239206124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like the text was on a wave < 1239206133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that base is even < 1239206152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well maybe, but then the font is somehow more messed up than CM usually is < 1239206184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it's pre-rendered < 1239206191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks it < 1239206192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kind of fuzzy < 1239206195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm goes away if I zoom to 250%... was at 200% before < 1239206207 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the typical messup; in xpdf it is horrible, in Acroread it's rather readable at all zoom levels. < 1239206222 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuzzy but at least not wavy. < 1239206225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kpdf's info box says Times-Roman, type 1, not embedded < 1239206236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1239206243 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, it's very bitmappy, I think. < 1239206251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as well as three unnamed type 3 that are embedded < 1239206257 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Based on a 800 % zoom in acroread.) < 1239206261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1239206298 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, the point of the text wasn't really the typography. :p < 1239206339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Copy-pasting gives junk output. < 1239206340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grrrrrr. < 1239206450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The system noticed that something was wrong and halted the X-ray beam, but merely displayed the word "MALFUNCTION" followed by a number from 1 to 64. The user manual did not explain or even address the error codes, so the operator pressed the P key to override the warning and proceed anyway." < 1239206459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's quite a large PEBKAC value to this. < 1239206698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't have time to read it all, but I read introduction and parts of background. There should be an "abstract", meh < 1239206710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a report on a computer killing people. < 1239206718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they don't give a shit how quickly you can read it. < 1239206739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes I understood that < 1239206743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1239206902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, 5.1 speakers < 1239206905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1239206906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :headphones < 1239206908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5.1 headphones < 1239207503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am becoming increasingly irritated that I'm using a machine that doesn't even have a supported way to open it up and look at the hw. < 1239207822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sounds like all macs except mac pro? < 1239207832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly. < 1239207860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and those new whole body laptops are even worse when it comes to that < 1239207867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :before you could at least reach the battery < 1239207875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yuh. < 1239207900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Someone tell them that you can make aesthetically pleasing computers without sealing them up. < 1239207937 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have yet to see a product with a label like: "Only user serviceable parts inside. Must not be serviced by authorized personal." < 1239207962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :++ < 1239207981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would fit on one of them low-spec-hacky-happy-fun-computery thingies that seem to be starting to exist. < 1239207998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean like open hardware thingies? < 1239208004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION forgot the name of the project < 1239208004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes < 1239208008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some handheld thing < 1239208012 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :openmono? < 1239208016 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something like that iirc < 1239208019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :openmoko is a phone < 1239208021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pandora is the handset, I think? < 1239208026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no clue < 1239208040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pandora_(console) < 1239208048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm. < 1239208050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR got one. < 1239208060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Pandora system by default come with an open source, Linux OS based on Ångström[8], running the minimal Matchbox window manager[9], both originally designed for mobile devices < 1239208060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that one of the open hardware ones < 1239208292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, about upgrade without downtime... telinit u < 1239208298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : U or u tell init to re-execute itself (preserving the state). No re-examining of /etc/inittab file happens. Run level should be one of Ss12345, otherwise request would < 1239208298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : be silently ignored. < 1239208321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That sounds quite hard to get right. < 1239208351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, possibly, but it works well in my experience. < 1239208487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl going to make some food < 1239209026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sha1.us/ ← More liek url longthenization service < 1239209408 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irssi has that funky /upgrade command, which exec()s a (potentially upgraded) irssi binary while keeping the existing connections open, so you don't have to /quit. Not a very generic solution. < 1239209437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think if you have a need for that you have an IRC problem < 1239209453 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's a Perl irssi-script to make /upgrade not a lose the window scrollbacks, too, I think. < 1239210221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How queer. The "QuietElite tm-symbol Intel i7 Extreme" = the "QuietElite tm-symbol Intel i7", except it costs several hundred dollars more. < 1239210231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Go do the figuration. < 1239210913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no difference in specs? < 1239210917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like cache size or so < 1239210925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the cpu model and whatnot are identical < 1239210928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess one could be different < 1239210938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1239210988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_Core_i7#Processor_cores < 1239210994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1239211000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or not same "extreme"? < 1239211005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what i thought < 1239211013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the numbers are different < 1239211025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both of these are 965 < 1239211028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so they're both ULTRA XTREME < 1239211037 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1239211091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still rather small L3... Isn't there some IBM Power CPU/system with a 256 MB L3 or so? < 1239211105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes that's right, MB) < 1239211190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Possibly < 1239211196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they have some sort of hybrid technology < 1239211200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is why the L2 is so small i guess < 1239211208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The POWER4 also came in a configuration using a Multi-Chip Module (MCM) containing four POWER4 dies in a single package, with up to 128 MB of shared L3 ECC cache per MCM", and last one is POWER6 < 1239211210 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1239211292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders why the Zalman ZM850-HP is more expensive than the one above it, when it's louder and the same wattage: http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/more_info/20639.html < 1239211356 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, click the link for details and compare maybe < 1239211360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did. < 1239211392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Cooling System: < 1239211392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 rear 120mm TriCool™ Fan (standard) < 1239211393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 top 120mm TriCool™ fan (standard) < 1239211395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 lower chamber 120mm TriCool™ Fan (standard)]] < 1239211397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's some extensive cooling < 1239211419 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait the max combined power doesn't add up to total power... < 1239211462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I guess it means you can't use max in all groups at once < 1239211490 0 :gavv!n=gavv@ppp91-76-219-125.pppoe.mtu-net.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1239211517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi gavv < 1239211543 0 :gavv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi, i was victor________ yesterday < 1239211554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1239211564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guessed, somehow < 1239211618 0 :gavv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1239211729 0 :gavv!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure anybody need, anyway link: sourceforge.net/projects/bfu < 1239212869 0 :gavv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"EKG2 - It's better than sex!" < 1239212900 0 :gavv!n=gavv@ppp91-76-219-125.pppoe.mtu-net.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1239212933 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1239213281 0 :gavv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"EKG2 - It's better than sex!" < 1239213333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh: < 1239213335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :file 6519/exe says: broken symbolic link to `/bin/bash (deleted)', but file -L on it says "6519/exe: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), for GNU/Linux 2.6.9, dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped" < 1239213340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is in /prox < 1239213343 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :proc* < 1239213349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something very strange is going on there < 1239213370 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, not at all < 1239213376 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That symbolic link is magic. You can't follow it to deleted file but you can open it. < 1239213376 0 :gavv!n=gavv@ppp91-76-219-125.pppoe.mtu-net.ru JOIN :#esoteric < 1239213383 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what happened is, you ran bash < 1239213386 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then deleted the executable < 1239213389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I know why < 1239213392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I upgraded package < 1239213392 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6159/exe is a symlink to the old executable < 1239213410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the odd thing IMO is that you can open it, even when it is marked as broken symlink < 1239213415 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is really rather magic, you're linking to a file that exists (it has an inode), but has no name < 1239213416 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't work on normal file systems < 1239213431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it does? < 1239213431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, exactly symlinks don't usually work like that < 1239213433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what ais523 said < 1239213439 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Same thing happens with fd symlinks. < 1239213443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, symlink-to-inode is rather magic < 1239213503 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, usually symlinks point to filename, if you delete the file it points to you can't either follow it nor open it. < 1239213514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This way is more logical. :P < 1239213537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it acts more like a "kind of hardlink, but not really" < 1239213589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# ls -l 2/exe < 1239213589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ls: cannot read symbolic link 2/exe: No such file or directory < 1239213589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lrwxrwxrwx 1 root root 0 Apr 8 17:30 2/exe < 1239213591 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is strange too < 1239213598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is one of them kernel pseudo processes < 1239213614 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a broken symlink, pointing nowhere < 1239213707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, even you have to agree this is crazy < 1239213728 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1239213740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/exe -> Segmentation fault$ < 1239213750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# file 2/exe < 1239213750 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2/exe: unreadable symlink `2/exe' (No such file or directory) < 1239213805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION waits for a Penguin In Black saying "There is no such file. Nothing to see here. Move along." < 1239214011 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Peace and Protection 4.22.2" < 1239215436 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1239216070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :strange entry in syslog: gdb[28227] trap stack segment ip:44cea2 sp:7fffb79b7b70 error:0 < 1239216093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems to correspond to the timepoint when gdb died with SIGBUS < 1239216222 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's an interesting-looking stack pointer < 1239216231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume you're using 48-bit adressing < 1239216240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which means that it was very nearly at the top of virtual userspace memory < 1239216263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm using x86_64 which means it is using sign extended 48-bit addresses yes < 1239216303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just that any address starting 7fff is rather suspicious < 1239216308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.silentpcreview.com/article301-page1.html ← completely fanless pc, only noise is the HDD < 1239216310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amazing < 1239216313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wish they still sold it < 1239216322 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fanless computers have been around for ages < 1239216329 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but marketing people kept asking for noisy fans on them < 1239216329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1239216335 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because customers thought they were broken < 1239216336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut < 1239216338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1239216340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's hilarious < 1239216351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, indeed. anyway what I did was to "display errno", then restart the program I was debugging, caused internal error message from gdb first time, next time I tried it: SIGBUS < 1239216368 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/more_info/20018.html < 1239216368 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SP is stack. That IP also looks interesting. < 1239216375 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :↑ the cooler I'm intending to get with this new pc < 1239216377 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Isn't 7fff where this x86_64 linux always puts the stack? cat /proc/self/maps has a "7fff045d3000-7fff045e8000 rw-p 7ffffffea000 00:00 0 [stack]" entry. < 1239216383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe the only fan will be the PSU < 1239216393 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And given that the executable itself maps to 0x400000, the IP looks very sensible too. < 1239216395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes think so, slightly randomised though iirc? < 1239216414 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I've forgotten how many bits of randomness it had. Not too many. < 1239216421 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More than in x86_32, though. < 1239216435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from different runs: 7ffff4a5d000-7ffff4a73000 7fff24db7000-7fff24dcd000 7fff2bbe6000-7fff2bbfc000 < 1239216437 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a few more < 1239216449 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, aha < 1239216460 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: any way you could get the PSU independent of the computer itself, laptop-style? < 1239216466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, where does x86 put it's stack then? < 1239216468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :32 bit I mean < 1239216472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Dunno. There are fanless PSUs, though. < 1239216478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Which I am considering. < 1239216498 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Stack top without randomization is BFFFFFFF. < 1239216502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ffb70000-ffb86000 ffce5000-ffcfb000 ffb90000-ffba6000 and such it seems < 1239216503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The main source of noise will probably be the 10K "VelociRaptor" 300GB drive < 1239216511 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not sure; in 16 bit it's either in the same segment as the heap, or the adjacent segment < 1239216514 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't know in 32 bit < 1239216515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it'll be enclosed in this thing: http://www.endpcnoise.com/e/images/smart_drive_copper.jpg < 1239216516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ilari, well seems like my system always randomise it slightly < 1239216539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I doubt it'll be too loud < 1239216552 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Or at least it was. Nowadays there can be some additional stuff there so its bit lower. < 1239216562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, the velociraptor is listed as 32dBA vs the main 1tb hd's 26dBA < 1239216602 0 :Ilari!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Looks like 20 bits of randomness from those addresses on 64-bit. < 1239216655 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In mmap_rnd: < 1239216658 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * 8 bits of randomness in 32bit mmaps, 20 address space bits < 1239216658 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * 28 bits of randomness in 64bit mmaps, 40 address space bits < 1239216669 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure where the stack randomization is done. < 1239216696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(apparently the VelociRaptor is the successor to the Raptor, I suspect Randall Munroe involvement) < 1239216830 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://filebin.ca/eeephv/ais52307_1.xml < 1239216985 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : but marketing people kept asking for noisy fans on them because customers thought they were broken <<< i've heard of that, but i thought it was a one-time occurrence < 1239217002 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, presumably it had an indirect effect < 1239217014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that the enigineers didn't try to make a silent computer for a while after that < 1239217022 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah maybe < 1239217039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is more conclusive proof that marketers were sent from hell to RUIN EVERYTHING < 1239217080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone looked at my link, btw? < 1239217084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1239217084 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's my latest Enigma level < 1239217086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is an enigma level < 1239217091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1239217095 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unfortunately, it's likely to be another one AnMaster doesn't particularly like < 1239217144 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we should have a competition, whoever makes a level AnMaster likes first gets 6 cookies < 1239217159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1239217161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION just restarted client, no scrollback < 1239217176 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or maybe the original typoed version cokies would be better, i could do with some coke right now < 1239217184 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://filebin.ca/eeephv/ais52307_1.xml < 1239217184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also wth, something is broken with spellchecking now < 1239217245 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also i don't need to make algebra exercises today! < 1239217247 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hooray! < 1239217252 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now i can live < 1239217274 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More Reasons Not To Upgrade Your Computer: Previously, you were thinking about a super-improved algorithm to do something since your bruteforce method would have taken years. Now, ... < 1239217311 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird wut < 1239217319 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that contiue < 1239217321 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*continue < 1239217335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ... = the rest is obvious so why would i insult your inteligamence by typing it < 1239217370 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need to, and your brain gets stale? < 1239217386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Exactly! < 1239217395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fast computers cause brain death. < 1239217406 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't like guessing, i just like making others guess. < 1239217452 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact often i deduce something pretty much without doubt, but still ask, because i don't consider myself obligated to make that deduction < 1239218202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: do you know if it's possible to do finer-grained partitioning in linux than per-directory? < 1239218218 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like ~ to be on the 1tb but ~/local/{bin,lib,etc,...} to be on the raptor < 1239218228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where / is on the raptor < 1239218251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the raptor? (I restarted client multiple times since I mentioned it, due to fixing bugs after upgrading it) < 1239218277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway what about mounting ~/local with mount --bind? < 1239218288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1239218311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or using symlinks and put it somewhere else < 1239218323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm not sure what you are trying to do < 1239218333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :raptor = one of the drives < 1239218363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/ = raptor, /home = 1TB, but I'd like /home/ehird/local to be = raptor (I'm putting OS stuff on the raptor and data on the 1tb) < 1239218383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i could symlink, though I dunno where the target would be -- mount --bind sounds promising, wuzzit do? < 1239218384 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: use a loopback device mount < 1239218400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I've heard of it but I don't know what it is < 1239218408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sort of like a hardlinked directory, but done via mounting rather than via linking < 1239218410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mount bind mounds one folder in another folder < 1239218415 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be examples all over the place < 1239218421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can in recent kernels be read only bind mount too < 1239218435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ah < 1239218438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even if the "real" directory is read write < 1239218441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder where I'd put it? < 1239218464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe /aux/ehird/local or something < 1239218475 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe mkdir /ehird-local; chown ehird:ehird /ehird-local; mont --bind /ehird-local /home/ehird/local < 1239218481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1239218482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or that < 1239218498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you can add it to fstab, but needs a slightly odd syntax < 1239218504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1239218513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me check what i used... < 1239218537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did you use it for? < 1239218545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/portage /opt/gentoo32/usr/portage none rw,bind 0 0 < 1239218559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the "none" was the odd bit indeed < 1239218569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1239218571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess /aux = /opt < 1239218593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1239218600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FHS says /opt/etc should be /etc/opt < 1239218601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway this isn't *nix, how you do this differ between different *nix < 1239218620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, /opt is for software only < 1239218630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guess /aux/ehird-local would be best < 1239218639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FHS defines an /aux? < 1239218643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: is a bind mount any slower? < 1239218643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no < 1239218647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just made it up < 1239218694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, about speed, I guess in theory it might be, or maybe not. I haven't noticed any difference certainly, nor have I performed any benchmarks < 1239218694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay, I just did Magic Triangle < 1239218705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kay < 1239218787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I don't know what sort of benchmark you would use either, since once you opened file it would be resolved using inode or such, so dd would show no difference certainly. < 1239218836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any case, disk IO itself would be a much larger bottleneck than any indirection overhead from mount --bind < 1239218899 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bind mount is a pretty simple driver < 1239218911 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine it's negligible compared with the overhead of the driver for the actual disk < 1239218918 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is negligible compared to the disk itself < 1239218972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rightyho < 1239218986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was kind of happier before I delved into all this hardware stuff < 1239218990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :software is so much simpler < 1239219020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, when did you start doing that? < 1239219040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: shortly after deciding to get a non-Mac. < 1239219044 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personally I've just been mounting sub under subdirectories of /mnt, and symlinking ~/foo if I happened to want a local "alias". < 1239219050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah... < 1239219057 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still on mac though < 1239219069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, won't be in a month or two. < 1239219071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prolly. < 1239219118 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: /media is the standard place to mount things < 1239219118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: /mnt is kind of inaccurate since it's not a separate devic < 1239219119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1239219120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, right, but please study hardware more, it is fun, and you will end up coding in C (or even asm) due to caring about overhead and cache locality soon < 1239219122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1239219129 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :traditionally, /mnt never contains anything, it's used as a temporary mount point < 1239219135 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, the whole thing < 1239219137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soon after that I predict you will like cfunge < 1239219146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: most distros use /mnt = ubuntu's /media < 1239219147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe < 1239219151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think part of the bliss of a high-end machine is not having to worry about that tuff < 1239219153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff < 1239219156 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, most distros use /media = ubuntu's /media < 1239219159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's in the FHS < 1239219161 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, iirc suse used /media at least < 1239219161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: really? okay. < 1239219164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :back when I used it < 1239219180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, /mnt is the traditional one though, which I use on my system too < 1239219184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh, and if you want testing on a core i7 quad-core nehalem @ 3.2ghz I'm happy to help :-P < 1239219204 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been leaving /media alone, since it smells like some sort of strange auto-mountery thing. < 1239219226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah another hal hater :D < 1239219284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It amuses me that you get funky ram amounts like 6gb because it works natively with ram multiples of 3gb. < 1239219288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION can't stand hal... usually it doesn't set it up the way I want it. < 1239219298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Who needs compatibility :-P < 1239219299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err what does < 1239219307 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: core i7/"nehalem" < 1239219309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1239219325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so it needs multiples of 3 GB... < 1239219327 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did do something like putting in fstab "/dev/disk/by-id/usb-Generic_CF_0000001-0:0-part1 /media/cf vfat user,noauto 0 0" and "/dev/disk/by-id/usb-Generic_MMC_SD_0000001-0:2-part1 /media/sd vfat user,noauto 0 0" so I can just "mount /media/sd" when I need to mount a sd card from the camera. < 1239219334 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's very media-ific, after all. < 1239219339 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can't use, say, 4 GB RAM < 1239219342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what < 1239219348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It can, I believe, it's just less efficient. < 1239219349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I may be wrong. < 1239219354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1239219378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's all rather confusing < 1239219389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: did your friend go into any detail about "core i7 = pentium 2.0"? < 1239219446 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"/media : Mount point for removeable media" < 1239219448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, iirc he said something about long pipeline and hyperthreading, as well as heat < 1239219474 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See; I can't put my "another HD with no real place in the filesystem tree" into /media, because it is very much not removable. Well, removable easily, anyway. < 1239219479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: long pipeline - is this really a big issue? Aren't CPUs very good at branch prediction these days? < 1239219488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hyperthreading - sth about security right? I don't care about that < 1239219492 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did you know that floppy drives are hot-swappable? < 1239219508 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heat - I think the cooler I am getting is some sort of mega-amazing i7-optimized supercooler < 1239219509 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Did you know that ISA cards are hot-swappable? < 1239219519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DID YOU KNOW THAT COMPUTERS ARE HOT-SWAPPABLE < 1239219522 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: being good at branch prediction still doesn't give you a prediction hit every time round < 1239219527 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, somehow I got confused because I read it as "ehird" said that. And thought "only ais would say that" < 1239219536 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but long-pipeline is nearly always more efficient than short-pipeline < 1239219538 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe not officially, but certainly I did swap it hot. PCI display adapters do not seem to be very hot-swappable. < 1239219550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, well, branch mispredictions happen, no? < 1239219553 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1239219556 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, FHS also says: "Although the use of subdirectories in /mnt as a mount point has recently been common, it conflicts with a much older tradition of using /mnt directly as a temporary mount point." -- so I'm certainly not the only one who's been using /mnt subdirs. < 1239219559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with the high clock speed I can't imagine it matters too much < 1239219564 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you get a delay equal to the latency of the pipeline, rather than its throughput < 1239219577 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is normally 50 or so times as much on modern processors < 1239219581 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the end of the world, really < 1239219583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, they are certainly better, but he said something about overhead when there were misses was way larger, and some apps were faster on his core2 than his core i7, in both cases compiled with last version of icc < 1239219598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what specs are the cpus? < 1239219613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A core 2 is also on the cards, maybe < 1239219617 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I'd be interested < 1239219638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there anywhere listing pipeline sizes or w/e? < 1239219641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well it was the non-extreme one I remember. but apart from that I don't remember details, and I lack irc logs from that months, typoed a command when transferring them to CD < 1239219649 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not quite sure where I should FHS-approvably mount "large amount of storage that do not belong to any particular user, but contain data files such as multimediastics". < 1239219651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so no logs from Jan 2009 around any more < 1239219656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: kay < 1239219663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if he's around sometime i'd appreciate you asking him or whatever < 1239219668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :always nice to know these things :) < 1239219675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: /aux! :-P < 1239219685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: also, /var, maybe? < 1239219690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/var/multimediastics/ < 1239219721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta admit i'm warya bout getting an i7 since they only came out in nov 08 < 1239219723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*wary < 1239219730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, he isn't much any more, irc time went downhill since he started at MIT last year.. < 1239219743 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and reached near zero in the beginning of 2009 < 1239219744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Definitive proof that MIT is evil. < 1239219749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, agreed. < 1239219755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was sarcasm :x < 1239219757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like mit < 1239219769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: do you know what his complaint with hyperthreading was? < 1239219773 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I was playing along... thought it was a joke < 1239219779 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not exactly "variable data files", though. < 1239219779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1239219780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1239219787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: /aux/multimediastics/ < 1239219791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird approved. < 1239219801 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's no /aux in FHS, though. < 1239219806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So? :-) < 1239219833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well < 1239219837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I think FHS-approved would be: < 1239219841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Create a new group multimediastics < 1239219845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Put it in /home/multimediastics/ < 1239219879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm... iirc it was something about two hyperthreading processes he ran ended up cache missing all the time, because they had either half of the cache line each or ended up flushing each other cache lines < 1239219879 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is a group for that, actually, so I guess I could put it in /home/groupname; although it's even more complicated now since it's a CIFS mount from that NAS server. < 1239219881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't remember which < 1239219907 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway it caused poor performance in this app he was writing. So he got much better results with hyper threading disabled < 1239219918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Hmm. I'm listening but it must be noted that the everything else I've heard about i7s is that they're the best thing since sliced Jesus. < 1239219948 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is an i7? < 1239219961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :core i7 aka Nehalem < 1239219969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intel's new CPU arch, since nov 08 < 1239219970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, he was doing some sort of parallel simulation app at MIT, I guess that may be special needs. < 1239219975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :high-end workstationy thingies < 1239219981 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At work they seem to be using /m/host/share -style names, and also /m/fs/purpose for the main home/project-dirs. And the university system was even more complicated, with separate physical tree and logical-tree-made-out-of-symlinks. < 1239219984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: would make sense < 1239219989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't intend to be doing that sort of stuff < 1239220018 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only things I can imagine will even begin to make full use of the massive power is playing gratuitously high-quality HD videos and maybe a few games < 1239220051 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone used http://banshee-project.org/? looks like a good replacement for itunes < 1239220056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well he also did say that reponsiveness was lower in normal use, due to pipeline stalls when switching tasks (or something like that), which was why he ended up calling it pentium4 2.0 < 1239220072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Hmm. OK. I'll look around. < 1239220077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a p4, I know they (especially the latter models) had that issue. < 1239220089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION googles core i7 sucks < 1239220094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... and finds not much < 1239220105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"haha get the core 2 quad cause the core i7 is more expensive and it sucks. amd is better by the way." < 1239220107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :— Yahoo Answers < 1239220118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHERE THE BEST COMPUTER ADVICE CAN BE FOUND! < 1239220122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also he said it ran about as hot as a pentium 4 < 1239220131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, well, heat isn't an issue, really. < 1239220147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is if you want to avoid fans < 1239220193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The fans seem near-silent as far as I can tell. Although yes, the core 2 had that fanless cooler. < 1239220199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://media.bestofmicro.com/K/3/174387/original/013_pcmark_game.jpg ← That's pretty good. < 1239220220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, meh, my phone has some ARM cpu in it. yet it manages without getting hot at all < 1239220231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: wuz the relevance :D < 1239220231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it can even do some simple 3D games! < 1239220249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "x86 sucks"? < 1239220255 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well sure < 1239220258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone knows that < 1239220258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(both intel and amd) < 1239220268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, PPC or ARM for the future! < 1239220272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wish... < 1239220280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: If by future you mean no future, then you're right. < 1239220307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I think arm will continue to be used in embedded devices for quite some time at least < 1239220311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :True. < 1239220314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ppc is more unsure < 1239220342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess it will live on for a while in the form of Cell < 1239220343 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fans seem to be pretty silent nowadays, especially when they are big and turn slowly. < 1239220357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, no fan would be even more silent. < 1239220371 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't really matter if you can't hear it. < 1239220392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Mm. Both the setups have a PSU fan, but the i7 has a CPU fan instead of a giant heatsink. I'll look around silentpcreview, probably. < 1239220428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, GPU fans tend to be loud too btw. My GPU fan is much louder than my CPU one certainly < 1239220438 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the gfx card is fanless < 1239220441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1239220445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what model? < 1239220459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1gb radeon 4850 < 1239220464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the company "Gigabyte" < 1239220468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is one of those working well under linux? < 1239220474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I believe so. < 1239220476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1239220478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the highest-end fanless card that endpcnoise offer < 1239220504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there is an alternative though... That I mentioned before < 1239220512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Huh? < 1239220520 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: so you're getting a new computer, then < 1239220538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Er. Yes. Welcome to ages ago :P < 1239220540 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :computer in different room, some sort of KVM extender < 1239220547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, yes. < 1239220556 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any salient features that I haven't seen because you said them before I joined? < 1239220558 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Last I looked (admittedly I guess it's been over a year?) ATI's fglrx driver felt equally crummy to Nvidia's (at least as far as using it is concerned, I don't know about technical details), and the radeonhd driver was pretty alpha-quality. < 1239220592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, nvidia drivers just worked, while I got freezes and such with ati. < 1239220607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :was a year or two ago I last used ATI though < 1239220636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course both vendors drop support for old cards, and a while after that it will break with new kernels. < 1239220667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Main one under consideration is an intel i7 quad-core 965 "X-TREME!!1111" 3.2ghz, w/ the card I mentioned before, a 10K "velociraptor" 300gb drive for the os, a 7.5k 1tb drive for /home, both in a 100% copper enclosure, 6gb ram, and this case installation: http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/more_info/1104470.html#acousti < 1239220675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :open drivers strongly preferred, which leaves you with crappy intel on-board graphics < 1239220687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nothing really earth-shattering; pretty similar to most high-end machines I'd imagine < 1239220693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still very nice < 1239220704 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems that radeonhd has gained 2D acceleration support for at least some models. < 1239220708 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I generally go for really low-end computers < 1239220718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about cooling those drive enclosures? harddrives generate heat too < 1239220725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or I guess they handle it < 1239220735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: They have air holes. :-P < 1239220744 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION checks out llvm + clang development sources < 1239220746 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the case has fans built in. < 1239220747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems. < 1239220751 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From what I can ascertain,. < 1239220753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :won't really stop noise < 1239220778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I've looked around a bit, it should dim it quite a bit. Those velociraptors aren't quiet < 1239220788 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1239220797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/more_info/1104488.html ← says it has a bunch of tiny fans < 1239220809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, which brand is the "velociraptor"? < 1239220814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: western digital < 1239220817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1239220857 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm most of my harrdrives are pretty quiet, but the one from western digital I can easily hear when it is seeking < 1239220870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WDC WD2500JD-00HBB0 btw < 1239220875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: which OS are you planning to use? < 1239220879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Ubuntu < 1239220897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why not a rolling release one < 1239220904 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, the filenames of the llvm source are written in CamelCase < 1239220905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Cuz ubuntu works well for me. < 1239220910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's c++ < 1239220911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's common < 1239220912 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Ubuntu does rolling release too if you want it to < 1239220917 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just most people don't < 1239220922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, really < 1239220930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it tends to be rather buggy every now and then, though < 1239220935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1239220939 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the rolling-release sources aren't as tested as the actual releases < 1239220943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, does this mean tracking unstable or < 1239220946 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1239220949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1239220949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, with the GrowUp Japan Full Copper enclosure at the bottom here: http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/more_info/1104490.html, plus the case insulation at the bottom here: http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/more_info/1104470.html#acousti, and the fact that the case itself is noise-canceling, < 1239220952 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm on ubuntu-proposed, which is somewhere in between < 1239220954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doubt I'll hear the drives much < 1239220958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well I prefer distros that have stable rolling releases < 1239220964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like gentoo, arch linux and so on < 1239220975 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-proposed is basically asking for changes a few months before everyone else < 1239220983 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do it so I can find, report and fix bugs < 1239220997 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although Ubuntu aren't particularly responsive to bug reports < 1239221005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "GrowUp Japan Full Copper enclosure" ... silly name < 1239221014 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bug in atd is still there, even though loads of people have reported it and I told Ubuntu what was causing it < 1239221015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the company's called GrowUp Japan. < 1239221019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's an enclosure that's fully copper. < 1239221028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, which is a silly name for a company < 1239221031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's nice and descriptive < 1239221033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh grow up. < 1239221035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Japan. < 1239221036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1239221084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway does the case itself act as a big heat sink since it is copper it should conduct heat pretty well < 1239221092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It probably does < 1239221098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hard drives aren't generally cooled are they...? < 1239221108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're generally just cooled by case circulation < 1239221112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1239221113 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't need more than that < 1239221118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : what ais523 said < 1239221121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1239221127 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ? < 1239221137 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :backspace < 1239221137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I was writing almost the same line but you were faster... < 1239221141 0 :backspace!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :ais523 < 1239221152 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone else's nick... < 1239221155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1239221192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I configured an AMD system that's quite cheaper than the intel one < 1239221205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how many dB is that velicoraptor < 1239221219 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Would there be any advantages to a computer system that used balanced ternary? < 1239221226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Don't know dB, but the dBA is 32, compared to the regular HD's 22 < 1239221227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, same cpu speed/core count < 1239221231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1239221242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: amd was 3.0 vs 3.2, but yes, same core count < 1239221244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/more_info/1104478.html < 1239221245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more info < 1239221259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The AMD one only has 4GB of ram < 1239221267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a "Phenom II 940 BLACK EDITION". < 1239221278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apart from that it's identical to the i7 < 1239221291 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think the drive will still be quite noisy, and it will take a 5.25" drive, so check that you have enough of them for all your drives < 1239221308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which mean two harddrives and one dvd I guess < 1239221308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: endpcnoise.com lets you configure an enclosure for each drive < 1239221313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1239221316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, no enclosure for the dvd available < 1239221336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the copper enclosure apparently chops off 4db on average, their site says it chops off more for louder drives < 1239221350 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed. < 1239221352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figure that it'll probably end up ~3dBA louder than the other drive < 1239221392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :googling suggests the phenom ii is good but slightly slower than the i7 < 1239221408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.endpcnoise.com/e/images/p182.jpg I wanna know what's on top of thatb ox < 1239221419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ßomething to do with the fan controls I guess < 1239221444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, considering the speed and the capacity of the drive I don't think it will last as long. In my experience slower and lower capacity drives are way more durable than the most extreme ones < 1239221445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*something < 1239221455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, there's also a 150GB option. < 1239221466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had the higher price for dual-booting, but it may be excessive. < 1239221479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: A friend has had multiple Raptors in a RAID 5 for, I think, 5 years < 1239221483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and he says they've never failed < 1239221488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think they were 250gb < 1239221532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, some googling suggests that when i7 gets more performance, it blows everything away, but it has quite a few situations where it performs worse < 1239221543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything will be a huge upgrade over this core 2 duo 2.2ghz, anyway < 1239221550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well duh, that is because he uses RAID 5, should he have used a single one it would have failed. Same reason as the action of taking regular backups reduces risk for disk failing (while not taking backups make it much more likely). Closely related to Murphy's law < 1239221583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: sarcasm? < 1239221586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/joke < 1239221604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, semi-joke... there is a grain of truth in it though < 1239221638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the universe is out to get you :P < 1239221656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1239221660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :← < 1239221661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well < 1239221667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never, ever backed up my drives in my life < 1239221668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was quick < 1239221675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and only once have I ever, ever had HD failure of any kind < 1239221680 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that was mainly my fault < 1239221686 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my computers usually die of a hd failure < 1239221687 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i didn't lose any valuable data < 1239221688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :→ < 1239221690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is your luck stat? < 1239221694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :← < 1239221697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: very low, surprisingly. < 1239221697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :→ < 1239221700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1239221704 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've never rolled a 6 < 1239221717 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, how many times did you roll dice then < 1239221742 0 :asie[Virus]!i=4e58b442@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-7dd0c111f681577d JOIN :#esoteric < 1239221748 0 :asie[Virus]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1239221749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1239221755 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had a HD failure when I dropped a glass of coca-cola on a computer that otherwise ran quite fine spread out on the floor for a couple of months, since I didn't happen to have a chassis for it. < 1239221761 0 :asie[Virus]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My PC was pwn'd by Virut.56/Vitro < 1239221765 0 :asie[Virus]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i'm typing from my laptop < 1239221767 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm a yahtzee grandmaster < 1239221771 0 :asie[Virus]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully it's being fixed < 1239221774 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The glass also had a breakage-failure. < 1239221775 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(sorry for lag) < 1239221785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asie[Virus], reinstall OS. That's the only safe way. < 1239221790 0 :asie[Virus]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already did < 1239221791 0 :asie[Virus]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and bam < 1239221796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh... < 1239221798 0 :asie[Virus]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the virus returned after 10 minutes < 1239221809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asie[Virus], don't start any old apps of course. < 1239221820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean clean reinstall < 1239221829 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowadays it's nearly always worms, rather than viruses < 1239221829 0 :asie[Virus]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I can't get rid of 500GB of data can I? < 1239221830 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reformat disk, clean reinstall, run update apps. < 1239221831 0 :asie[Virus]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway < 1239221837 0 :asie[Virus]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dr. Web's cleaning my PC < 1239221842 0 :asie[Virus]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it IS removing Virut < 1239221844 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :viruses only strike if you believe in them < 1239221853 0 :asie[Virus]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then I'm going to scan with avast! < 1239221859 0 :asie[Virus]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and remove the leftover EXE's < 1239221865 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: clean reinstalls rarely work as well nowadays because the apps assume you're trying to pirate them < 1239221873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what < 1239221878 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you know which malware it was, normally just removing it works < 1239221878 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT YOU HAVE WINDOWS? LOL WHAT AN UNOS! < 1239221886 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Oh, right, here -- you can have this 6: ⚅ < 1239221888 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is a proud ubuntu user now < 1239221895 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAVE I MENTIONED THAT? < 1239221898 0 :psygnisf_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1239221900 0 :asie[Virus]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WHAT THERE'S NO SONY VEGAS FOR LINUX? LOL WHAT A FAIL! < 1239221901 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, isn't it same thing as a rootkit, you can't be sure it is clean without a complete reinstall < 1239221902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1239221905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, you got the Ubuntu attitude really quickly < 1239221908 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: pretty, but i didn't roll it. < 1239221911 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: rootkits are something different < 1239221915 0 :psygnisfive!n=psygnisf@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1239221926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well virus do have that ability easily on windows < 1239221932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they could install a rootkit < 1239221933 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asie[Virus]: what's sony vogue? < 1239221933 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes, doesn't mean all of them do it though < 1239221947 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: You can roll your monitor; but do it quick, while it's still on-screen. < 1239221952 0 :asie[Virus]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The way to get rid of a virus completely is to scan everything on everywhere with 10 antiviruses, and THEN a quick reinstall < 1239221953 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you can clean a rootkit without a clean reinstall, you just need a second OS < 1239221957 0 :asie[Virus]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oklopol: movie editing < 1239221970 0 :asie[Virus]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Hopefully Virut fails to work in Safe Mode < 1239221973 0 :asie[Virus]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can scan my PC < 1239221988 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asie[Virus]: just look up how that particular virus works < 1239221991 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: actually i'm saving my first 6 for the world championship next month < 1239221993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or probably worm < 1239221994 0 :asie[Virus]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found out < 1239222008 0 :asie[Virus]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In basic terms, it infects every app the PC touches. < 1239222010 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: there's a world Yachtzee championship? < 1239222019 0 :asie[Virus]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except Safe Mode < 1239222027 0 :asie[Virus]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can use THAT to scan the PC thoroughly < 1239222028 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes and i'm going to win it < 1239222029 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it is an actual genuine virus? < 1239222037 0 :asie[Virus]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Probably < 1239222041 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and roll my first 6 as the final blow < 1239222045 0 :asie[Virus]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also doesn't steal credit card data < 1239222050 0 :asie[Virus]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but can go as far as infect logonui < 1239222054 0 :asie[Virus]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes you unable to log in < 1239222059 0 :asie[Virus]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BAM! < 1239222087 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe three sixes and have like a cardboard satan rise up behind me and play some serious metal < 1239222090 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's all about the show < 1239222095 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :woah, it's a ridiculous and pointless virus < 1239222097 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yahtzee that is < 1239222101 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it hooks the syscalls for creating and opening files < 1239222110 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just infects the resulting file with itself < 1239222118 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the point? < 1239222121 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the best way to run windows if you have to would be to use virtualbox or such to do it < 1239222123 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IMO < 1239222141 0 :asie[Virus]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It kills every app infected < 1239222144 0 :asie[Virus]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, it can't run < 1239222152 0 :asie[Virus]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you know what happens when it infects logonui < 1239222157 0 :asie[Virus]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or gah, something like hal.dll < 1239222167 0 :asie[Virus]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your PC is pwn'd < 1239222172 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asie[Virus], why were you logged on with admin rights anyway < 1239222177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how did you get this virus < 1239222178 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the point of viruses is to exist. < 1239222187 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you know spread < 1239222200 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point of viruses nowadays is normally to make money < 1239222208 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean atm I do have a shell as root open yes, because I'm upgrading X, but usually I don't < 1239222215 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas the virus asie's got just trashes the computer < 1239222216 0 :asie[Virus]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I install too much apps, change too much settings and actually use admin rights for #1 and I don't know for #2. < 1239222225 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't think I ever open root shells nowadays < 1239222231 0 :asie[Virus]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Imagine it hits a big company. < 1239222234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'm allergic to sudo. < 1239222235 0 :asie[Virus]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just imagine. < 1239222241 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's just the viruses you hear about, i'm sure most viruses are harmless guys just trying to make a living. < 1239222243 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: why? < 1239222250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asie[Virus], why didn't your antivirus catch it < 1239222252 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't see why all the prosecution < 1239222263 0 :asie[Virus]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Promise you won't laugh? < 1239222263 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because none of the big expensive ones catch it yet, it seems < 1239222283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asie[Virus], no I don't promise that < 1239222289 0 :asie[Virus]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So i'm not telling! < 1239222295 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, there have been some security bugs in sudo, in the last few years, none in su though < 1239222295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asie[Virus]: even if AnMaster did, oerjan or someone could logread it < 1239222300 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then come in later and laugh < 1239222308 0 :asie[Virus]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1239222321 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah oerjan is really mean always laughing at people's idiocy. < 1239222323 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asie[Virus], I predict it is either because you didn't have an antivirus, or didn't update it < 1239222323 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I doubt those security bugs were for using sudo as a su replacement < 1239222327 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :watch out for that douche < 1239222338 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asie[Virus], well, also sudo su - is too long to type < 1239222350 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1239222353 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but I don't use sudo to go to a root shell < 1239222355 0 :asie[Virus]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The most important thing is that it's being fixed < 1239222360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and sudo for every command tends to mess up complex bash commands < 1239222367 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait actually i remember a few instances of him laughing at idiocy, but it's very rare < 1239222376 0 :asie[Virus]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, i'm going off < 1239222378 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if you're sudoing complex bash commands, you're probably sudoing it wrong < 1239222381 0 :asie[Virus]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see ya tomorrow < 1239222382 0 :asie[Virus]!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hope < 1239222389 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :running complicated commands as root is generally a bad idea IMO < 1239222409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well alternative would do to type it manually. which is more error prone < 1239222413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use sudo mostly for make install, package manager, recursive chown/chmod < 1239222421 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can always sudo a shell script < 1239222422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :than a for dir in */; do ; done < 1239222433 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that complex? < 1239222434 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: for dir in */; do sudo ; done < 1239222449 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless you really badly need root privs for the iteration over directories < 1239222456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sudo only what you need to be root < 1239222464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, well permission denied. I was doing this in /var/qmail/queue to fix an issue < 1239222472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a directory I can't read as a normal user < 1239222476 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1239222487 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why didn't you su to the user who owns the directory < 1239222489 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than root? < 1239222514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, because of home=/nonexistant shell=/bin/false of the qmailq user < 1239222516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1239222524 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that isn't a problem with sudo < 1239222533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway, the issue were wrong permissions on certain subdirs < 1239222535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you can do it with su < 1239222541 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you just need nested su, once to root, once to qmail < 1239222547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so in fact I couldn't have done that < 1239222548 0 :asie[Virus]!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"http://www.mibbit.com ajax IRC Client" < 1239222622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, anyway I try to minimise number of suid binaries < 1239222640 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and sudo + su = one too many? < 1239222646 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why don't you replace all your suid binaries with busybox? < 1239222686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(note, this is not a serious suggestion, there would be loads of reasons not to do that) < 1239222737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, passwd, su, unix_chkpwd, Xorg, + some file in /usr/libexec are the only suid binaries on my system. there are a few more non-root sgid such as nethack < 1239222765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes X needs suid :( < 1239222771 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which sucks IMO < 1239222776 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suid root? or suid something else? < 1239222781 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine it needs to mess with the graphics drivers < 1239222783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, suid root sadly < 1239222790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it needs to mess with /dev/mem yes < 1239222822 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wonders vaguely about changing the ownership of /dev/mem < 1239222840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it sounds like a bad idea, you could potentially crash stuff that way < 1239222850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+iirc it needs to do other stuff too that is low level < 1239222855 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like write to /proc/mtrr < 1239222869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is root only yes < 1239222877 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for very good reason < 1239222879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reasons* < 1239222885 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can run XdirectFB as non-root, I think. < 1239222897 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For obvious reasons. < 1239222898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I need accelerated 3D though < 1239222909 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is /proc/mtrr? < 1239222911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I'm stuck with nvidia driver < 1239222921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, setting the mtrr registers < 1239222924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is safe to cat < 1239222928 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's mtrr? < 1239222936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, memory type range register < 1239222940 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, everything in /proc is safe to cat if you aren't root < 1239222959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :used to mark some *physical* memory ranges as write combine and suich < 1239222960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such* < 1239222965 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is that PAT thing which is supposed to be a successor of MTRRs. < 1239222987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, linux uses both iirc < 1239223008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and pat is per-page (virtual page that is) < 1239223067 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My hardware knowledge mostly comes from kernel config questions. "CONFIG_X86_PAT: Use PAT attributes to setup page level cache control. PATs are the modern equivalents of MTRRs and are much more flexible than MTRRs." < 1239223082 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yes added in recent kernels. < 1239223091 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2.6.26 or so iirc < 1239223113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, so not surprising it is still not as widely used < 1239223129 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course even my old pentium 3 actually supports pat... < 1239223144 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it is disabled there due to a CPU errata (erratum??) < 1239223160 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something about WC PAT being handled as UC instead < 1239223165 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MTRR works correctly on it < 1239223214 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, I was wondering why the /proc/mtrr list was so simple (just two entries), but it was that headless server box and not this desktop. < 1239223255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what about on the desktop < 1239223263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is two entries on my desktop too btw < 1239223265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :# cat /proc/mtrr < 1239223265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reg00: base=0x00000000 ( 0MB), size=1024MB: write-back, count=1 < 1239223265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reg01: base=0x40000000 (1024MB), size= 512MB: write-back, count=1 < 1239223266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1239223316 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reg00: base=0x000000000 ( 0MB), size= 2048MB, count=1: write-back < 1239223316 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reg01: base=0x080000000 ( 2048MB), size= 1024MB, count=1: write-back < 1239223316 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reg02: base=0x0c0000000 ( 3072MB), size= 256MB, count=1: write-back < 1239223316 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reg03: base=0x0cfe00000 ( 3326MB), size= 2MB, count=1: uncachable < 1239223319 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reg04: base=0x100000000 ( 4096MB), size= 512MB, count=1: write-back < 1239223319 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reg05: base=0x120000000 ( 4608MB), size= 256MB, count=1: write-back < 1239223322 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The complicatisms. < 1239223325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1239223333 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reg00: base=0x000000000 ( 0MB), size= 2048MB, count=1: write-back < 1239223334 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reg01: base=0x080000000 ( 2048MB), size= 1024MB, count=1: write-back < 1239223334 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reg02: base=0x0c0000000 ( 3072MB), size= 256MB, count=1: write-back < 1239223334 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reg03: base=0x0d0000000 ( 3328MB), size= 256MB, count=1: write-combining < 1239223334 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reg04: base=0x0e0000000 ( 3584MB), size= 512MB, count=1: uncachable < 1239223336 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reg05: base=0x100000000 ( 4096MB), size= 4096MB, count=1: write-back < 1239223338 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reg06: base=0x200000000 ( 8192MB), size= 512MB, count=1: write-back < 1239223341 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reg07: base=0x220000000 ( 8704MB), size= 256MB, count=1: write-back < 1239223346 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: A winner is you! < 1239223356 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Set up by yours truly as well < 1239223363 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is confused by asie's virus < 1239223368 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MTRR has been nothing but a source of troubles for me < 1239223369 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems designed just to junk the compuer < 1239223371 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*computer < 1239223380 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it doesn't do it all at once, and it only it infects executables < 1239223384 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1239223444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1239223452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Set up by yours truly as well < 1239223453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1239223463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would you manually set it up < 1239223465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::/ < 1239223487 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: See http://bugzilla.kernel.org/show_bug.cgi?id=12553 for the whole story, I can't be bothered to reiterate < 1239223494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok.. < 1239223531 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually I guess the relevant parts are only in the later comments but anyway < 1239223607 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, is niðavellir your non-ascii hostname? :p < 1239223611 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1239223617 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ha, exposeded! < 1239223648 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone seems to have a quad-core hyper-computar nowadays. Oh, well. < 1239223656 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1239223672 0 :psygnisfive!n=psygnisf@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1239223836 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol! < 1239223875 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: that's a weird bug < 1239223900 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed < 1239223904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very weird < 1239223907 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In what way < 1239223914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, seems we finished reading it at about the same time < 1239223926 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster, you're nordicish right? < 1239223939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, why < 1239223946 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because CLOUDBERRIES < 1239223966 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never heard of them. Tell me what it would be in Swedish and I'll try < 1239223973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though I don't much like berries in general < 1239224002 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1239224004 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what would the question about them be < 1239224008 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i got it at ikea. < 1239224012 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its in jam form < 1239224015 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sylt hjortron" < 1239224023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah... hjortron < 1239224030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why didn't you say that < 1239224040 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's rather sour iirc < 1239224099 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloudberry http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hjortron < 1239224111 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i dont speak swedish < 1239224111 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bork bork bork < 1239224111 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hjortron = cloudberries? < 1239224122 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is not sour D: < 1239224127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, btw "sylt hjortron" sounds very strange... "hjortronsylt" would make much more sense gramatically < 1239224139 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well listen < 1239224141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, I think all jam is sour. < 1239224149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so maybe I'm biased < 1239224160 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i cant tell why they said sylt hjortron instead of hjortronsylt < 1239224168 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its ikea swedish. < 1239224170 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whats sylt mean < 1239224203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sylt == jam < 1239224219 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i figured. < 1239224220 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. < 1239224233 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jam Cloudberry < 1239224244 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fi words for that berry are lakka and hilla, I've never found out why there are two so completely different words for it. < 1239224255 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apparently there are a bunch < 1239224257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, doesn't make a lot of sense in English either < 1239224266 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nup! < 1239224272 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :english and swedish are almost identical anyway < 1239224281 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Finnish: lakka, suomuurain, hilla, muurain, lintti, valokki, nevamarja < 1239224282 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Also muurain, valokki < 1239224283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:25 AnMaster: asie[Virus], well, also sudo su - is too long to type ← sudo -s < 1239224314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, we do have a different word order in questions... < 1239224321 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1239224335 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, lakka and hilla were just my guess for the most common ones. < 1239224339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:18 asie[Virus]: WHAT THERE'S NO SONY VEGAS FOR LINUX? LOL WHAT A FAIL! < 1239224341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, yes < 1239224342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're a retard btw < 1239224344 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you give me a statement/question pair, with english words but swedish syntax? < 1239224355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that was meant to highlight ais523, mistab < 1239224360 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:47 fizzie: Everyone seems to have a quad-core hyper-computar nowadays. Oh, well. ← but of the course! < 1239224363 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I said < 1239224364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sudo -s" < 1239224370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric := opens root shell < 1239224375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, still longer :P < 1239224382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alias ss='sudo -s' < 1239224388 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swedish: hjortron (commonly used); multebär, myrbär, snåtterblomma, solbär, snåttren/snattren (locally used) < 1239224390 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::o < 1239224411 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, well "var heter du?" "what named you?", though that isn't really a good translation either < 1239224420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:42 ais523: it seems designed just to junk the compuer < 1239224420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:42 ais523: *computer < 1239224422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:43 ais523: but it doesn't do it all at once, and it only it infects executables < 1239224423 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: var? < 1239224424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20:43 ais523: why? < 1239224429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people want things to break. < 1239224431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, typo < 1239224433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vad* < 1239224439 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Also "suomuurain" is just silly. "Swamp-masonrymaker"? < 1239224441 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but it could just reformat the hard drive or overwrite with random data or whatever < 1239224446 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes, swedish has V-to-T movement < 1239224482 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm not sure that "masonrymaker" is quite the intended meaning... and it does grow in swamps < 1239224487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, maybe, I don't know the fancy names for it. I just know how to speak it. < 1239224495 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you say stuff like < 1239224497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: some people are perverse. < 1239224505 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I went not to the store" < 1239224506 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1239224518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should write a virus sometime, everyone's gotta do that. :P < 1239224520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/ / / < 1239224526 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it might be to give it a chance to spread, it has a tendency to infect programs that try to remove it from USB sticks < 1239224531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, a direct translation of that sounds ok kind of < 1239224533 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im fairly certain swedish is SVO with no V2 properties so < 1239224536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: clever < 1239224541 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I went to the store not? < 1239224544 0 :gavv!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"EKG2 - It's better than sex!" < 1239224545 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, "jag gick inte till affären" < 1239224559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, hm. that sounds odd < 1239224564 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the question you have < 1239224569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have some respect for virus makers, they're clever folk < 1239224575 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wha? < 1239224588 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jag gick inte till affären? < 1239224596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, no < 1239224601 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, jag gick till affären inte? < 1239224606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, " I went to the store not?" <-- translating that straight to Swedish doesn't work < 1239224621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor does the other one. < 1239224624 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didn't expect it would, to be honest. whats the proper swedish? < 1239224628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"gick jag inte till affären?" < 1239224629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the sentence doesn't make sense in English < 1239224634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be the question, if someone claimed you didn't < 1239224639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you thought you did < 1239224641 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no not as a question < 1239224645 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just as a statement < 1239224656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, as a statement it would be "jag gick inte till affären" < 1239224665 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok good. thats what I expected. < 1239224667 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can't you two just agree on the word order specified at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_grammar#Syntax ? < 1239224674 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :definitely V-to-T < 1239224680 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie < 1239224683 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shut up. < 1239224685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, but different in questions sometimes as I said. < 1239224691 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we're doing linguistic fieldwork! :| < 1239224699 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, ofcourse its different! < 1239224702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I certainly can < 1239224708 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :swedish has V-to-T, english doesnt < 1239224724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, why of course? English doesn't. < 1239224731 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what the hell is V-to-T < 1239224739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vertical-to-transaction < 1239224742 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its a kind of head movement < 1239224745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1239224751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, talk sense. < 1239224752 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Verb-to-TenseHead raising < 1239224756 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok look look < 1239224763 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have auxiliary verbs in swedish, right? < 1239224771 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :say, for future tense? < 1239224790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, no idea. Since I don't know what you mean with "auxiliary verbs" < 1239224796 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know all these fancy terms < 1239224798 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will go to the store --> jag en:will en:go till affären < 1239224802 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: kan, måste, etc. < 1239224817 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: jag ska gå till affären < 1239224826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, like English has "to talk" or such < 1239224828 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in negative its probably < 1239224830 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.e. "yes" < 1239224840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :att prata < 1239224867 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jag ska inte gȧ till affären < 1239224868 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right? < 1239224884 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right! < 1239224884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, that ȧ is not the right char < 1239224885 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know how to type the a-ring < 1239224890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :å != ȧ < 1239224890 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1239224891 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you get the point < 1239224895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1239224908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, I don't know how to type the a-dot < 1239224912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :copy-pasted < 1239224918 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ȧėȯ < 1239224920 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im stubborn! < 1239224922 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i right now? < 1239224925 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess Deewiant know < 1239224928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :knows* < 1239224928 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jag ska inte go till affaren? < 1239224948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahaa < 1239224950 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-11-221.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1239224953 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, I know for my keyboard layout :-P < 1239224953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go means something else < 1239224953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1239224957 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shut it! >| < 1239224960 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :am i right or not? < 1239224962 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go is a verb? < 1239224965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1239224971 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's an adjective < 1239224973 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't think so < 1239224983 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster! >.< < 1239224986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know how to translate it < 1239224989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe cuddly < 1239224990 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Please acknowledge his rightness soon, it'll get noisy otherwise. < 1239224991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1239224997 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"QuitIRCServerException: MigoMipo disconnected from IRC Server" < 1239224998 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jag ska inte ga till affaren << i will not go to the store < 1239225009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, only if your dots got mangled < 1239225015 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :affären < 1239225018 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok good. < 1239225020 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so! < 1239225026 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ska is a tense word, a T < 1239225039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, ska == will in this case < 1239225042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and whatever < 1239225047 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gå is a verb, a V < 1239225054 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1239225057 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it's pretty tense you should give it a massage < 1239225060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :att gå, to walk < 1239225062 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jag T inte V till affären < 1239225068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, go != gå < 1239225073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gå is more specific < 1239225073 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1239225075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :walk onluy < 1239225078 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: looks about right < 1239225078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only* < 1239225078 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whatever < 1239225080 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So what do you call the word-order flip which happens if you start with an adverb? "today I will not go to the store" -> "I dag ska jag inte gå till affären", not "jag ska" there. < 1239225084 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesnt matter for the example < 1239225092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, you can't "gå by car" like you can "go by car" in English < 1239225093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or so < 1239225098 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jag T V till affären --- in the positive < 1239225101 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jag T inte V till affären --- in the negative < 1239225110 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, in the past tense, consider: < 1239225134 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact I can't think of a generic transportation verb like the English "go" in Swedish < 1239225134 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jag gick till affären < 1239225135 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is < 1239225140 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jag V till affären < 1239225144 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and in the negative < 1239225151 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jag gick inte till affären < 1239225156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would use "åka" for bus/car/train/aircraft or whatever < 1239225158 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jag V inte till affären < 1239225164 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: stop being a penisdant, this is not about swedish but linguistics < 1239225170 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :notice the relative ordering of T, V, and "inte" < 1239225174 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the future tense: < 1239225176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :penisdant < 1239225177 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T inte V < 1239225180 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the past tense: < 1239225180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, pedestrian? < 1239225181 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :V inte < 1239225182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1239225182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :closely related to prostitutes and the presdient < 1239225192 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes it's like pedant but really insulting. < 1239225197 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since there is no T, V moves over inte, and sits where T normally would < 1239225201 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure you got that. < 1239225204 0 :MigoMipo!n=MigoMipo@84-217-11-221.tn.glocalnet.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1239225207 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :make sense, anmaster? < 1239225219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, what, I didn't read what you said. < 1239225227 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1239225227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since some 20 lines or so < 1239225227 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: verb is second. < 1239225233 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: So what's the linguistic funky-name for the fact that Swedish does "jag ska ..." => "i dag ska jag ...", but English just keeps "I will ..." => "Today I will ...". < 1239225235 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the general rule < 1239225249 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: actually i dont think it is for swedish < 1239225262 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. well! < 1239225268 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :looks like swedish IS verb-second! < 1239225271 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: well that's what they teach as a rule, it has a few exceptions. < 1239225280 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't remember the exceptions tho < 1239225283 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: V2 < 1239225296 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Great, like the missile. < 1239225300 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1239225306 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Verb-Second < 1239225313 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :V2 word order. < 1239225319 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i didnt think swedish has it but i guess it does < 1239225320 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hah < 1239225327 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1239225333 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that explains even further why swedish word order is different < 1239225334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_grammar#Syntax < 1239225336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and shut up < 1239225338 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hush anmaster! < 1239225344 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :discovering is more fun! < 1239225345 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait actually i'm not sure there were exceptions really < 1239225346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :someone else linked it above < 1239225354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and shut up" < 1239225357 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: it gets pretty interesting when you have ...subsentences < 1239225361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice way to respond to questions, AnMaster < 1239225368 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1239225375 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: yes, i believe V2 vanishes in relative clauses < 1239225375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, he could just have looked there instead < 1239225377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :much easier < 1239225384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god forbid he ask a native feature < 1239225386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :speaker < 1239225389 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you have have a whole sentence, and after that verb is second considering the subsentence as one word < 1239225390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that can't POSSIBLY have advantages < 1239225399 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, yes oklopol < 1239225400 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ofcourse. < 1239225408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's "of course" dammit >.< < 1239225416 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lies < 1239225416 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: of course, yes, i just like it :) < 1239225422 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ofcourse" and "alot"! < 1239225428 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recursion at its finest < 1239225439 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, all languages have recursion. :P < 1239225449 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :V2 word order doesnt highlight this at all. :P < 1239225460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :subsentence? Is that inskjutna bisatser? Like "today I went to the lake, which is in Norway, in my red car" where "which is in Norway" would be a inskjuten bisats < 1239225468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is subsentence something else < 1239225477 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a subsentence, i just don't remember the term < 1239225483 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perhaps a better example would be something like < 1239225487 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i don't remember any terms atm < 1239225498 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I went to the lake, I got very wet < 1239225505 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also the "inte" part moves elsewhere in those dependent clauses. "..., because I don't go to the store" => "..., eftersom jag inte går till affären". I guess. < 1239225513 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like "because I went to the lake, got I very wet" < 1239225518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : oklopol, all languages have recursion. :P <-- no. There are plently of languages that only have loops through while or for style loops < 1239225522 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consider bf for example < 1239225525 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: V2 does highlight it. < 1239225526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no recursion < 1239225537 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even you should know that psygnisfive! < 1239225546 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmastar: ::smack:: < 1239225551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course there are languages with neither < 1239225578 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: object vs meta. < 1239225578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, well since this is #esoteric we should be doing computer languages really < 1239225586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1239225592 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :swedish is pretty computer-y. < 1239225594 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: even considering both kinds of languages, you're addressing a completely different issue < 1239225595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: the language I was working on as part of my University project was deliberately sub-TC < 1239225600 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bf has the kind of recursion we're talking about < 1239225603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular, there was no way to express recursion in it < 1239225605 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a recursive syntax. < 1239225611 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The final exam of our Swedish course is rather soon after Easter, and the Swedish word order is something they've been desperately trying to make us grok. < 1239225630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, do you think it is hard < 1239225635 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it'd help if you understood some modern syntactic theory :( < 1239225666 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: for ef, i decided to do functions for convenience, but made them non-lazy macros, so you'd have to use ef's more interesting features for actual computation < 1239225671 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(it's the fixed point language) < 1239225673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : because I went to the lake, I got very wet <- wouldn't even have a comma in Swedish: eftersom jag gick till sjön blev jag våt < 1239225680 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or wait < 1239225680 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont claim to know much about swedish syntax -- i forgot swedish was v2! -- but knowing theory is pretty helpful < 1239225689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, eftersom jag gick till sjön blev jag mycket våt < 1239225690 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even < 1239225693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :missed that "very" < 1239225702 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, personally I don't really get why the "clausal adverb / negation" part (like "inte", "redan" and so on) has to move so that "jag går inte ..." in a dependent clause turns into "..., eftersom jag inte går". Where's the logic? < 1239225712 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster: blev = got? < 1239225720 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: became < 1239225722 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :became < 1239225726 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same thing. < 1239225727 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yeah < 1239225731 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes < 1239225734 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly the word order you'd espect. < 1239225740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, err... hm < 1239225772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I don't think anyone thought about this properly when they decided upon it. I mean few natural languages make sense when you think about it. < 1239225780 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :constructed ones may do < 1239225784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1239225793 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :swedish is either V2 in the TP domain, or V2 in the CP domain with underlying SVO < 1239225804 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think its V2 in the TP domain. < 1239225807 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :STOP TALKING ABOUT CP < 1239225811 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and missiles. < 1239225813 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1239225814 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1239225826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: CP=child porn < 1239225826 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, what's wrong with cp file otherfile < 1239225827 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1239225827 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster, can you say like < 1239225841 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, I guess that's the traditional cop-out. It's just that I'd be perfectly happy with "..., eftersom jag går inte" -- it doesn't sound "oh god that's wrong" to me -- if I didn't happen to know the rule about it changing places. < 1239225843 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait hold n < 1239225844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, duh I was misinterpreting in a different way < 1239225849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :intentionally of course < 1239225853 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jag inte går in lower clauses < 1239225853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1239225854 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm! < 1239225855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's hard to tell < 1239225858 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting < 1239225865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, what < 1239225874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"jag inte går in", where on earth would that make sense < 1239225879 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie < 1239225879 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Well, personally I don't really get why the "clausal adverb / negation" part (like "inte", "redan" and so on) has to move so that "jag går inte ..." in a dependent clause turns into "..., eftersom jag inte går". Where's the logic? < 1239225880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jag går inte in < 1239225884 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: then maybe you're a noob :) < 1239225888 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: '"jag inte går" in lower clauses' < 1239225890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:24 psygnisfive: AnMaster: Well, personally I don't really get why the "clausal adverb / negation" part (like "inte", "redan" and so on) has to move so that "jag går inte ..." in a dependent clause turns into "..., eftersom jag inte går". Where's the logic? < 1239225892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1239225893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :example then < 1239225896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's very un- psygnisfive lik talk < 1239225899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that a quote < 1239225903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes read scrollback < 1239225908 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1239225908 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: you should recognize it as a ...sweticizm in finnish people's spech < 1239225910 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*speech < 1239225910 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes. i was quoting fizzie < 1239225915 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, the logic is actually not that inte is moving at all < 1239225918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it seemed fizbanic < 1239225926 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but rather that the VERB is moving < 1239225940 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore you should... < 1239225941 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :umm < 1239225951 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i lost my brain of thought. < 1239225952 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry. < 1239225960 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, example of this in subsentence < 1239225962 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's certainly more logical, moving the verb around. < 1239225965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I don't know all these fancy words < 1239225967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I can't answer < 1239225974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:25 ehird: yeah it seemed fizbanic < 1239225974 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :specifically, the verb is moving to the position held by the tense head (like the word "will"), most likely, and then that position is moving to the position held by relativizers in the subclauses < 1239225976 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but given an example I can provide a "correct" example < 1239225977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :appreciate my pun < 1239225987 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, ^ < 1239226005 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but fizzie, if there is a REAL relativizer in those positions, as we'd expect in the lower clauses, then the verb cant move there, so the position of the verb should be different < 1239226009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just skip all those fancy words if you want any answer < 1239226010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1239226015 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is actually what we get in all the V2 languages that use that position. < 1239226024 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster < 1239226027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"adjective", "noun", "verb" and such I'm fine with < 1239226031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not all these fancy terms < 1239226035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: stop using fancy terms like megabytes < 1239226037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and CPU < 1239226043 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to be honest, i'd have to give you a crash course in syntactic theory for it to make complete sense :P < 1239226045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and kernel < 1239226050 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well this is a computer channel, not a linguistics channel < 1239226051 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, i dont have any sentences :D < 1239226056 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because i dont speak swedish < 1239226060 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: If it helps, adding an auxliary verb makes it go: "..., eftersom jag inte kan gå ..." (..., because I can't go) < 1239226062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the conversation is about linguistics < 1239226064 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor do i know the precise details of swedish V2 < 1239226078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, I could translate English ones to idiomatic Swedish ones < 1239226080 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I know it well enough to pass the exam, I guess that's enough. It's not like I'm perspiring... ahem, aspiring to be a linguist. < 1239226081 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: interesting. < 1239226091 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok fizzie! < 1239226094 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have your answer! < 1239226102 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Answer! < 1239226103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linguistics is sweaty work < 1239226113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: are we Not Going To Like It? < 1239226114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the universe... < 1239226118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... life ... < 1239226120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and everything? < 1239226135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's easy. 42... < 1239226137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: thanks me and fizzie hopped on that bandwagon 5 months ago < 1239226149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, which bandwagon... < 1239226156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: < 1239226157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:28 fizzie: The Answer! < 1239226159 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: imagine a sentence has some general positions like this: SpecC C Subj Neg T V ... < 1239226161 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:28 ehird: psygnisfive: are we Not Going To Like It? < 1239226167 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: dunno! < 1239226167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :h2g2 < 1239226188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes indeed < 1239226193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The Answer! < 1239226195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : to the universe... < 1239226197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : linguistics is sweaty work < 1239226199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ... life ... < 1239226199 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: C is the clausal relativizers. something like "that" and such. Subj is the subject, Neg is "inte", T is modals and words like "will", V is the verb < 1239226200 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : psygnisfive: are we Not Going To Like It? < 1239226205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what do you mean then < 1239226207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, .... < 1239226213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes but we've established that your net connection is slower than a slow thing < 1239226220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not much I can do about it < 1239226224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't wait to check < 1239226229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because then I would have to wait even more < 1239226229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:28:22 The Answer! < 1239226229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:28:23 linguistics is sweaty work < 1239226231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :13:28:33 psygnisfive: are we Not Going To Like It? < 1239226233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--clog < 1239226244 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so just accept that my connection is slow instead < 1239226259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no. you should have a live fiber optic link to clog < 1239226261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, complaining about it won't fix it. < 1239226265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet talk via AnMaster < 1239226280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, if you pay for it... < 1239226284 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: in normal sentences, C is empty, because the clause isnt relativized. so what we do is this: move V to T position if T is empty. move T to C position if C is empty, move Subj to SpecC position if C is empty. < 1239226324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, isn't this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Swedish_grammar#Syntax < 1239226330 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster: probably not. < 1239226334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1239226339 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, fizzie, consider: in a past-tense NEGATIVE (because itll show movement) main clause, C is empty. < 1239226342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, have you read the page yet < 1239226351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or did you just ignore everyone who linked it < 1239226360 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ignored it because its not going to be in theory :P < 1239226367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, what < 1239226368 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: They can also stick a "clausal adverb" like "redan" == en:already to the place where negation normally goes. But okay. < 1239226381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Main Clause < 1239226382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fundament Main verb Subject (if not fundament) Clausal Adverb/negation Verb (in infinitive or supine) Object Spatial Adverb Temporal Adverb < 1239226382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Subordinate Clause < 1239226382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Conjunction Subject Clausal Adverb/Negation Main Verb Verb (in infinitive or supine) Object Spatial Adverb Temporal Adverb < 1239226383 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :we can work on that too, dont worry :p < 1239226384 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is what it say < 1239226385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1239226388 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't avoid it < 1239226430 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: so we have SpecC C=0 Subj=jag Neg=inte T=0 V=gick --> move V to T: SpecC C=0 Subj=jag Neg=inte T=V=gick < 1239226476 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: move T to C: SpecC C=T=V=gick Subj=jag Neg=inte ---> move Subj to SpecC: SpecC=jag C=T=V=gick Neg=inte < 1239226483 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jag gick inte ... < 1239226496 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if theres an over T head you cant move the V to T so you get < 1239226509 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jag ska inte gå < 1239226551 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have an overt clause relativizer, say, "because" < 1239226563 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :T cant raise to C (and so neither does the subject raise to SpecC) < 1239226565 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you get < 1239226588 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SpecC C=eftersom Subj=jag Neg=inte T=ska V=gå < 1239226595 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eftersom jaq inte ska gå < 1239226598 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Uh.. how did that C=0 .. T=V=gick turn into C=T=V=gick before the Neg part? There is also some sort of T-to-C thing? Right. < 1239226600 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jag* < 1239226633 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah. swedish must have T-to-C with XP-to-SpecC < 1239226656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Jag gick inte ... jag ska inte gå eftersom jaq inte ska gå <-- all correct < 1239226658 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I say XP to SpecC because you dont have to actually do Subj-to-SpecC, as in the "today went I ..." examples < 1239226666 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster: Hooray! Theory works! :D < 1239226667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(which is all I can contribute with) < 1239226695 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I expect that in the Today-to-SpecC examples it'd be < 1239226696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, though the message that you won't walk did get through the first time... < 1239226698 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1239226699 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: Okay, a winner is you. Although if it doesn't horribly offend you, I think I'll do it the lazy way in the exam (three different word order templates for the only three different cases we'll encounter -- main clause; main clause starting with adverb or some subordinate clause; or a subordinate clause), because I think I'm more likely to not mess that up. < 1239226707 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"today went I not to the store" right anmaster? < 1239226712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1239226723 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sounds like bad English grammar < 1239226725 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb < 1239226731 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in swedish! :P < 1239226743 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-027-168.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1239226772 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: ok. but now you know, and you can practice for the futuer! infact, i can teach you more about syntactic theory and point you in the direction of some articles that look at swedish syntax. it should help you. < 1239226802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Idag gick jag inte till affären. correct but not how I would say it in casual talk probably < 1239226805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would say something like < 1239226822 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"idag va jag inte å handlade" < 1239226834 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :va being go or something like that? < 1239226837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1239226841 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : anmaster: Hooray! Theory works! :D <<< theory always works, sometimes the mean reality doesn't work around it, but who cares. < 1239226854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :va being spoken-ism for "var" < 1239226856 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster: but va is a verb, yes? < 1239226864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and "å" spoken-ism for "och" < 1239226878 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if so, then whatever. we dont care about the actual words, we just care about the categories of the words. < 1239226882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, so it means "today I didn't shop" (correct English, non-literal" < 1239226884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and < 1239226905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :today was I not and shopped < 1239226905 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think < 1239226909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be literal translation < 1239226912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep sounds about right < 1239226922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now explain that with your theories! < 1239226922 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point is, the the word order is XP V Subj Neg ... < 1239226952 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which, fizzie, is a case where something else raises to SpecC and the Subj stays low, next to Neg/Inte < 1239226953 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: it's "today i was not and shopped" < 1239226953 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, you claim you can explain the spoken "today was I not and shopped" (not for written text) < 1239226969 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming å means och, which i didn't think it does < 1239226970 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, err was I, not I was < 1239226979 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh right < 1239226985 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :å means just och? < 1239226988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, yeah < 1239226989 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster: in terms of the relevant word order, yes. < 1239226991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said it was spoken < 1239226993 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay good < 1239226996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't write it < 1239227008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in a formal text or even non-formal < 1239227026 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1239227036 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i thought it was Deewiant who said å was och < 1239227044 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then again i'm not sure he's ever wrong either. < 1239227051 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster: eftersom jag inte va å handlade? < 1239227114 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: you can't pull of the contractions! < 1239227117 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*off < 1239227119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, sounds strange. I would not add those "filler" words "va å" (var och) in that case < 1239227134 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd use var och in that case? < 1239227138 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: note: AnMaster takes his awkward swedish as a matter of pride < 1239227139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1239227139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IIRC < 1239227142 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you're kinda missing the point of syntax. < 1239227147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't use filler words there < 1239227154 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what would you use then < 1239227164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I'm talking about idiomatic Swedish in gnereal < 1239227171 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, my point exactly < 1239227182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, "eftersom jag inte handlade" < 1239227183 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably < 1239227187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even spoken < 1239227188 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not saying that's not an interesting topic < 1239227202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"ska du inte ta och handla idag?" <-- asking someone if he/she shouldn't better go and shop. "should you not take and shop today?" is literal translation. < 1239227210 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah well. < 1239227224 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, also, "handla" == "act" as well as "shop" < 1239227233 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok. < 1239227239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to add to confusion :P < 1239227246 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesnt. < 1239227258 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only thing thats relevant, anmaster, is the categories. not the words. < 1239227299 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk < 1239227301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, meh then why don't you say "the adjective noun adjective" < 1239227306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of "the only thing thats relevant" < 1239227307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1239227316 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think words are highly relevant to languages < 1239227326 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but not to the syntax :) < 1239227330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1239227334 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afk < 1239227337 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :growing tomatoes < 1239227361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1239227362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The difference in all cases was small, and was due to the significantly smaller sized L2 cache on the processor cores, with each core able to access its own 256 kB of L2 cache. In contrast, the most recent Yorkfields have up to 12 MB of L2 cache. To help compensate, the Core i7 also has a new L3 cache of 8 MB, shared among all four cores, similar to AMD's "Barcelona" processors. This is due to the trend of games making use of more threads, and with hype < 1239227366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :r-threading (HT) the Core i7 can scale more than 4x faster, such as in cinebench tests.[25] However, more recent testing done on all clock rates of official hardware with final drivers and BIOS revisions show that Core i7 at the very least beats Yorkfield clock-for-clock, and in most cases exceeds it by an average of about 17%. < 1239227370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would explain some i7 bad reviews < 1239227498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, small cache? < 1239227515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: small L2, but the L3 makes up for it, is the impression I got < 1239227526 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, L3 is way slower than L2 though < 1239227531 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hype-threading. < 1239227536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure < 1239227538 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, :D < 1239227543 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It's way way slower < 1239227562 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No chance of doing anything with L3, might as well forget about it < 1239227568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'm still not convinced it's such a big deal; I kind of doubt Intel would release a high-end processor with shitty cache < 1239227569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you are talking about maybe 100 cycles on a L2 cache miss but L3 hit < 1239227581 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Think of the cycles < 1239227597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'll get a core 2 instead if it'll make you happy :-P < 1239227606 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, if you are trying to be sarcastic you are actually rather close to the truth instead < 1239227616 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It might, since your CPU won't be faster than mine then ;-) < 1239227617 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"L3", it says, "is slow. Really slow. You just won't believe how vastly hugely mindbogglingly slow it is. I mean you may think it's a slow walk down the road to the chemist, but that's just peanuts to L3. Listen ..." and so on. < 1239227625 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To paraphrase the Guide a bit. < 1239227625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: :-D < 1239227645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Nehalem has memory access something like 20% faster it said < 1239227648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I guess that offsets the cache too < 1239227657 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sounds about right < 1239227691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :256KB L2 passes that threshold of such a ridiculously low number that they must have thought about it really hard :-P < 1239227741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Every processor has its downsides, anyway < 1239227761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 3.2ghz speed should do a nice job of papering over a lot of inefficiencies, I imagine < 1239227771 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3.15 GHz here < 1239227778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: how much RAM? < 1239227782 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: 8 < 1239227792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Darn, going for 6. < 1239227797 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1239227803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Uh. Harddrive? < 1239227808 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, 966/1482 AI tournamet matches done. It'll be ready soon. (I'm sure you all find this terribly interesting, but isn't this quite the e/n channel anyway?) < 1239227813 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 256KB L2 passes that threshold of such a ridiculously low number that they must have thought about it really hard :-P <-- yes... "I think we can pull this off because no one would think we were that stupid without a damn good reason" < 1239227815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes indeed < 1239227817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they thought hard < 1239227820 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Nothing fast, just a 'plain' 1.5 TB from Seagate < 1239227834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Look I have *some* faith in companies :-P < 1239227841 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Do you have any tentative statistics? < 1239227849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: 10K RPM IN YOUR FACE. Although that's only for the OS HD. < 1239227850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "no one will notice if this division isn't correct anyway" < 1239227851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or < 1239227855 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Just results: http://www.cis.hut.fi/htkallas/ai-2009.txt < 1239227859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I think we all learned from the FDIV bug. < 1239227864 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: My statistics-calculation script expects a full matrix of games. :p < 1239227867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"well this way for user space to lock up the CPU would be nice" < 1239227873 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Well, I would've got an Intel X60 if it weren't for the fact that it would've doubled the price of the whole machine :-P < 1239227882 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and since everyone use DOS or win95 anyway, no one will care" < 1239227883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1239227888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"intel x60"? < 1239227889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something like that < 1239227889 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Meh :-P < 1239227907 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Er, x25. < 1239227913 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x60 is the laptop. :-P < 1239227920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think it was f00f bug < 1239227922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or something < 1239227932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:57 AnMaster: ehird, "no one will notice if this division isn't correct anyway" < 1239227938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Time to compete on minor aspects. < 1239227939 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I'm amused by the number of crashes < 1239227943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: WHAT WATTAGE IS YOUR POWER SUPPLY < 1239227948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well I meant the other one < 1239227950 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: 850 WATTS < 1239227952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, iirc something like LOCK CMPXCHG %rax,%rax < 1239227954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1239227957 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :%eax < 1239227958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: FUCK YOU, 800 :-( < 1239227962 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: HA HA < 1239227967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: HOW FAST IS YOUR DVDRW < 1239227971 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: NO FUCKING CLUE < 1239227974 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: LET ME CHECK < 1239227977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: OKAY, BITCH < 1239227993 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: One rather new innovation was to give (with the "normalized score" that's at the bottom of that results listing) also the min- and max-scores that are still possible (by losing/winning all the remaining games). < 1239227996 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: IT DOESN'T SAY IT ON THE FRONT, I'M GOING TO HAVE A LOOK AT LSPCI < 1239228003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: HE IS BUSY ARGUING WITH ME < 1239228006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: PLEASE DO NOT DISTURB < 1239228008 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes, I think there's a bit more crashes than last year. < 1239228014 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: SORRY TO BE DISTURBINK < 1239228037 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: FFS I DON'T KNOW, ALL I REMEMBER IS THAT IT'S A NEC ND3520A < 1239228042 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, why the accent < 1239228050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: IT WAS PROBABLY NOT SLOWER THAN 22X SO FUCK THAT < 1239228052 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You probably win on that count since it's old, doesn't read DLs for instance < 1239228061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: YOU FORGOT CAPS < 1239228069 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, any hardware midi < 1239228069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: OKAY, HOW BIG IS YOUR MONITOR?!?!? < 1239228072 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Caps only when I'm winning < 1239228076 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: 26 INCHES < 1239228077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1239228082 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: That "boar" bot there which has crashed all games has a "move()" method that has the form "do(); stuff(); and(); stuff(); /* something(); */ return null;" < 1239228082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: HA! I AM GOING FOR 28-30 < 1239228087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY PENIS^WMONITOR IS LARGER < 1239228090 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: OH NOES < 1239228093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1239228106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: HOW MANY ALL COPPER HARD DRIVE ENCLOSURES HAVE YOU GOT < 1239228106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0??? < 1239228108 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: BUT IS IT TN, S-IPS, S-PVA, MVA, WAT < 1239228109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HAVE 2 < 1239228115 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My monitor is 43 inches, if you just sum the two monitor diagonals together. :p < 1239228120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: IT'S BUTTACULAR < 1239228127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: HOW MANY FLOPPY DRIVES DO YOU HAVE? < 1239228130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HAVE 0. LOWER IS BETTER. < 1239228132 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ONE IN THIS MACHINE < 1239228135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DO YOU HAVE NEGATIVE FLOPPY DRIVES? < 1239228135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ANY HARDWARE MIDI‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽‽ < 1239228136 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: THE MORE THE MERRIER < 1239228148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I DON'T KNOW, JUST A BUILT IN SOUND CARD, WHY DO PEOPLE BUY NON-INTERNAL SOUND CARDS < 1239228152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DON'T GET IT MAN < 1239228154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :APART FROM LIKE AUDIO PEOPLE < 1239228157 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ANYWAY THIS MONITOR IS S-IPS SO IT BEATS ANY TN REGARDLESS OF SIZE < 1239228173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: WHAT DBA DOES YOUR POWER SUPPLY RUN AT < 1239228178 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A friend bought a catweasel device: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Individual_Computers_Catweasel < 1239228180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HEYYYYYYYYYYYY < 1239228182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MINE IS 850 WATTS < 1239228183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HA < 1239228184 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Re floppy drives, that is. < 1239228185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU DIDN'T BEAT M3 < 1239228185 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I DON'T HAVE A MEASURING DEVICE < 1239228188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, FAIL!!! I HAVE HARDWARE MIDI ON MY SOUNDBLASTER LIVE PCI CARD! < 1239228200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UM < 1239228200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HM < 1239228202 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: DOES YOUR GPU HAVE ONBOARD AUDIO??!1 < 1239228214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(TRY SHOUTING HM SOMETIME IT IS HARD) < 1239228223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I DON'T KNOW IT'S A RADEON HD 4850 WHICH I THINK IS AN OKAY SORT OF CARD?? < 1239228230 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: IT SUX MINE IS 4870 < 1239228237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: DEFINE "SUX" < 1239228244 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: 'CRAPTASTIC' < 1239228254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ARE YOU BEING SERIOUS OR JUST TRYING TO ELEVATE YOUR OWN MACHINE'S STATUS < 1239228262 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The 4870 is like 20 units better!" < 1239228263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well ATI... sucks yeah < 1239228273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, units of what < 1239228286 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I AM VERY SERIOUS < 1239228286 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Whatever they're using in those numbers. Qubits, maybe. < 1239228287 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nvidia geforce 7600. low end yes < 1239228297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: in lowercase, is this serious serious? < 1239228297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::<< < 1239228300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, do you really think so < 1239228312 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Nah, I think it's the next-best thing after 4870. < 1239228315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phew < 1239228315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay < 1239228317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BACK TO ARGUING < 1239228319 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, the 7600 is something like over three thousand units better. < 1239228340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, that's ati vs. geforce though < 1239228340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WAIT YOUR HD IS .5 TERABYTES BIGGER THAN MY DATA ONE < 1239228343 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Checked a bit: 4870, 3870X2, 4850 < 1239228346 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1239228349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like inches vs cm < 1239228351 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "OpenGL renderer string: GeForce 7600 GT/PCI/SSE2" here. < 1239228355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND .2 TERABYTES BIGGER THAN MY COMBINED SIZE. < 1239228358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what tool < 1239228369 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: MY COMPUTER IS .2 TERABYTES BETTER THAN YOURS < 1239228371 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: glxinfo, in the middle of the messy output. < 1239228372 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, and mine is "GS" < 1239228373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HMMMM < 1239228385 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OpenGL renderer string: GeForce 7600 GS/AGP/SSE2 < 1239228386 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that < 1239228387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1239228391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: HOW ODD IS YOUR MEMORY IN GIGABYTES? THE NUMERIC SENSE THAT IS < 1239228394 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MINE IS 100% ODD < 1239228399 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah I have a low end mobo < 1239228409 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: IT IS A POWER OF TWO, HENCE EVEN < 1239228415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HA! < 1239228416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I WIN < 1239228418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HMM < 1239228419 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They pale in comparison to the 4870X2. :P < 1239228421 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: WAT < 1239228423 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: what was the game? < 1239228428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ODDER IS BETTER < 1239228432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal_: IF YOU PLAY CRYSIS MAYBE < 1239228434 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: AHA < 1239228436 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: http://www.niksula.hut.fi/~svirpioj/hierarkia/ < 1239228444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: HOW BLACK IS YOUR CASE < 1239228446 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal_: Well, I can't think of an app where it'd actually matter, currently. :-P < 1239228447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MINE IS VERY BLACK http://www.endpcnoise.com/e/images/p182.jpg < 1239228452 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: SAME CASE < 1239228453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err... 3145728 bytes right < 1239228462 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal_: Except 3DMark, but that doesn't count. :-P < 1239228462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: SCUSE ME? < 1239228462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOUR MEMORY IS 3145728 BYTES RIGHT < 1239228465 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: it functions quite well as a heater :D < 1239228469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes or no < 1239228471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: SAME CASE? HOLY SHIET < 1239228471 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal_: Well yeah :-D < 1239228474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOT SAME PEOPLE I ASSUME < 1239228476 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: P182B YES < 1239228480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I SAID IN GIGABYTES < 1239228481 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's not mine, though, I have a 8800 GTS) < 1239228490 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: DO YOU HAVE A CUSTOM-MODDED HEAT SINK ON YOUR GPU? < 1239228499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, IS YOUR RAM 3221225472 BYTES LARGE THEN. YES OR NO < 1239228499 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: AS IN YOU HAD TO BREAK PARTS OFF IT TO MAKE IT FIT < 1239228512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: WELL, ENDPCNOISE.COM MAY HAVE HAD TO, IT'S THE FIRST ONE HERE http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/more_info/20012.html ASK THEM < 1239228513 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: AND IT CAME IN A SEPARATE BOX FROM A SEPARATE PERSON < 1239228516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BECAUSE THAT IS EVEN < 1239228522 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I SAID "IN GIGABYTES" < 1239228524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: FOO < 1239228524 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND IT IS BYTES THAT IS IMPORTANT < 1239228528 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: THAT IS YOUR CPU NOT YOUR GPU < 1239228534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, THAT'S NOT IMPORTANT < 1239228535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: OH I MISREAD < 1239228537 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: YOU OBVIOUSLY KNOW NOTHING ABOUT COMPUTERS < 1239228543 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I HAVE COFFEE AND IT TASTES GOOD < 1239228543 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, great line < 1239228545 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My case is also black, but it's not as black: http://www.cclonline.com/resize-image.asp?image_id=3008&height=300&width=300&mode=box&bgcolor=ffffff < 1239228548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ALSO, 6GB NOT 3GB < 1239228557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: WELL MY GPU IS SO AWESOME THAT IT'S PASSIVELY COOLED, BITCH < 1239228559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ok but still even < 1239228560 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I ALSO FOUND OUT COFFEE IS A GREAT DOG REPELLANT < 1239228572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, REALLY. PLEASE TELL US MORE < 1239228582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.endpcnoise.com/e/images/gigabyte_4850.jpg < 1239228586 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WELL THERE'S PRETTY MUCH NO WAY TO GET A DOG TO LEAVE YOU ALONE USUALLY < 1239228586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"MULTI CORE COOLING TECHNOLOGY" < 1239228588 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: MY GPU HAS A CUSTOM HEAT SINK WITH TWO CUSTOM FANS ATTACHED WITH SOME WIRE: 1 + 2 = 3 WHICH IS GREATER THAN 0 SO I WIN < 1239228596 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I MEAN IT'LL JUST COME SNOOPERING AGAIN IF YOU PUSH IT AWAY < 1239228596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Deewiant: WELL, ENDPCNOISE.COM MAY HAVE HAD TO, IT'S THE FIRST ONE HERE http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/more_info/20012.html ASK THEM <-- what a joke < 1239228604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: DEFINE "JOKE" < 1239228612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, stupid, crap, insane < 1239228614 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BUT, STICK THE COFFEE MUG UNDER ITS NOSIE FOR A WHILE, AND IT'S SLOWLY START BACKING AWAY < 1239228616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: IN WHICH SENSE? < 1239228620 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DON'T GET WHAT YOU'RE SAYING < 1239228624 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, in an upright case that would be very heavy on the mobo < 1239228629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pull a great load < 1239228637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it is so unbalanaced < 1239228645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I REVERT ONCE AGAIN TO THE "SMARTER PEOPLE THAN ME HAVE USED IT AND LIKED IT" ARGUMENT < 1239228651 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ALSO I HAVE THE NH-U12P SO WE ARE EVEN THERE; IN TOTAL I WIN BY 0.2 TERABYTES PLUS THREE < 1239228659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: HOW MUCH DID YOUR COMPUTER COST < 1239228661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN TOTAL < 1239228664 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ok, but how do you handle the heavy unbalanced load < 1239228666 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: MILLIONS AND MILLIONS < 1239228670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I DON'T KNOW LOL < 1239228674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: IN REAL MONEY < 1239228689 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MY C128 HAS A DUAL-CPU MOS-8502/ZILOG-Z80 ARCHITECTURE WITH A TURBO MODE OF 2 MEGAHERTZ AVAILABLE IF YOU DON'T MIND THE FACT THAT THE VIDEO CHIPSET DOESN'T RUN THAT FAST < 1239228689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, wow < 1239228689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's interesting < 1239228696 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BACK DESU YO < 1239228699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, :D < 1239228705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I ARREST YOU FOR NON-CAPSLOCK-COMPLIANCE < 1239228715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I arrest you for overuse of capslock < 1239228720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Deewiant too < 1239228722 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: CRUISE CONTROL → COOL < 1239228726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: IN REAL MONEY < 1239228734 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err, what < 1239228741 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I'll be mostly away now, all the shouting is giving me a headache.) < 1239228742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...has that got to do with computers < 1239228742 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: 299 PLUS 244 PLUS 586.3 PLUS 385 PLUS SOMETHING LIKE 100 FOR THE WINCHESTER < 1239228745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: CAPS LOCK = CRUSE CONTROL FOR COOL < 1239228754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: WHAT CURRENCY IS THIS, EUROS? < 1239228759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that's a urban myth. < 1239228760 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: OF COURSE, YOU SAID REAL MONEY < 1239228763 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hopefully that helped before < 1239228764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't you know < 1239228777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO £1460 < 1239228788 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Including monitor, ofc. < 1239228795 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the 385. < 1239228799 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it makes you look stoopid. < 1239228812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: MINE IS LIKE £1500 MORE IN TOTAL BUT I'M HAVING LIKE A SWEET-ASS MONITOR AND STUFF AND ALSO PAYING A PREMIUM FOR MEGASILENCE < 1239228821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, "PLUS SOMETHING LIKE 100 FOR THE WINCHESTER" < 1239228821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(DO NOT SAY ANYTHING LESS MY CONSUMERIST BONE IS INJURED) < 1239228826 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*LEST < 1239228829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what winchester < 1239228839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: EVERY COMPUTER NEEDS ITS OWN GUN < 1239228842 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: fi:winsu < 1239228860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, windows < 1239228861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1239228874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that makes no sense < 1239228874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it's a port of su(1) to windows < 1239228875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would anyone by windows < 1239228879 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't pay for Windows, what do you take me for ;-D < 1239228891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, well you used windows before < 1239228896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: HOW MANY OSES DID YOUR COMPUTER COME INSTALLED WITH (LOWER IS BETTER) < 1239228900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: YOU CAN OBTAIN SOFTWARE WITHOUT PAYING < 1239228901 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ZERO < 1239228904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I BELIEVE THIS IS WHAT HE WAS IMPLYING < 1239228905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: DITTO BITCH < 1239228912 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: OR NEGATIVE ONE ACTUALLY BECAUSE THE BIOS IS A BUGGY PIECE OF SHIT < 1239228917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes but that wouldn't be very legal < 1239228924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: HOW MANY TIMES IS IT INSULATED WITH THIS: http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/more_info/1104470.html#acousti < 1239228928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: LOTS OF THINGS AREN'T < 1239228929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless it is open source < 1239228935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, thus avoid them. < 1239228940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I DON'T THINK MICROSOFT DESERVES MONEY FOR WINDOWS PER SE < 1239228943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1239228948 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ⅕ < 1239228959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I don't pay for windows, and I don't use it < 1239228959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND YET WE ARE FORCED INTO ITS USE < 1239228963 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I've had enough of shouting for now. < 1239228964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BY UNCARING SOFTWARE AND GAMES < 1239228968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, same < 1239228973 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: HOW CAN YOU FIFTH OF AN INSULATE SOMETHING < 1239228977 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err games, you don't need them < 1239228980 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Magic < 1239228985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: SOME PEOPLE ENJOY THEM I HEAR < 1239228993 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure but that is not same as "need" < 1239228996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ARE YOU TRYING TO SAY IT'S INSULATED, BUT WITH SOMETHING ELSE < 1239229004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: YOU DON'T "NEED" A COMPUTER. < 1239229010 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It is insulated by the powers of my mind < 1239229011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU DON'T "NEED" MUCH AT ALL < 1239229017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: OOH SNEAKY < 1239229045 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, my case is insulated, with metal. Built into the case even. < 1239229046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1239229057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I WOULD TOTALLY BEAT YOU BY NOT HAVING A CPU FAN BUT THE I7 MODELS DON'T HAVE THAT OPTION < 1239229070 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and... I have dust filters at the air intakes < 1239229072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you? < 1239229077 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: BTW, those tricool fans or whatever they're called are a bit loud IMHO, I've been thinking of replacing them with Noctuas < 1239229078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's with all the shouting? < 1239229086 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: me and Deewiant having a computer pissing match < 1239229088 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TBH I'm not sure whether they or my GPU are making more noise < 1239229091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :caps lock is mandatory < 1239229098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yar, that's a shame < 1239229104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Define a bit loud < 1239229104 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, in that case my computer is worse than yours, and I'm proud of it < 1239229108 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: Sure. I probably should've done some of the language technology courses they have at our university (there's a language technology specification option, which has a pile of courses from the linguistics department of our neighbour university) to be more conversant about the topic, but couldn't fit them in my schedule. (Still not really here.) < 1239229112 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Loudest part of my computer or not < 1239229113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, because it'll be hot enough anyway < 1239229123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Gee thanks < 1239229129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: that is worrying though. < 1239229131 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't know. < 1239229138 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: According to your standards probably eardrum-breaking < 1239229139 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i can give you some intros to the topic if you want. < 1239229145 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just let me know if you do. < 1239229160 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Well, the nopcnoise guys seem to be a lot more obsessed than I, so I'm wondering why they'd recommend a case with loud fans < 1239229171 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how did people get on with my Enigma level, by the way? < 1239229173 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Maybe it's just me then. < 1239229175 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or did nobody want to try? < 1239229184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes but I have a case fan to pull air through instead < 1239229188 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i wanted, i just don't feel like i have the time < 1239229189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so do I. < 1239229193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: There is an "extreme" version with a different case, I'll look at that < 1239229199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: ah, ok < 1239229202 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course, i would've had. < 1239229205 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: You can always just remove the fans :-P < 1239229210 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not a very oklopoly level anyway < 1239229215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Hrm. < 1239229220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Would that cause any problems? < 1239229227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(If not, whtf are they in...) < 1239229230 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but i have less and less time for it as time goes by < 1239229248 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: explain a bit, i don't have enigma < 1239229254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, overheating I guess < 1239229259 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Well, your stuff will be hotter. Whether it's problematic or not depends on your stuff. < 1239229264 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and i don't read the code) < 1239229268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you could use water cooling of course. < 1239229275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: NO. FUCKING. WAY. < 1239229276 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: basically, you have a black and a white ball < 1239229283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I understand you there :D < 1239229286 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a few yinyang stones that need changing < 1239229291 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's obvious what happens to them < 1239229292 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I initially didn't have one of the fans in place since some stuff had to be moved around; when it was reattached my hard drives went down by 10 K < 1239229298 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :however, you only have one yinyang item between the two balls < 1239229304 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My friend uses water cooling... it really just doesn't seem worth the effort. < 1239229308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I don't think I have anything high-spec apart from the i7 965 3.2ghz and the fanless 1gb radeon hd 4850 < 1239229314 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have to work out how to get it and the other items you need, like a magic wand over the right, back and forth < 1239229321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Though, that acoustipak thing will probably make it a bit hotter in there. < 1239229340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, go low spec then < 1239229351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No :-) < 1239229351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or noisy in different room < 1239229360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggested that several times < 1239229365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not an option < 1239229367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This house is tiny, no space < 1239229371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1239229376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heck, my desk can't be much longer than 80cm < 1239229382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or I couldn't move around in my room < 1239229386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it'd block a pathway < 1239229387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, put it in your parents bedroom (disconnect reset button first) < 1239229391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1239229396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1239229411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I'd like to get as powerful as possible while being basically silent. < 1239229416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is difficult < 1239229433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, you could go non-x86, those are pretty powerful iirc < 1239229446 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Atom! < 1239229446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't consider something that doesn' twork with other stuff powerful < 1239229447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure about noise level of the last sun work station < 1239229454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Kid. :-P < 1239229464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Aren't Suns generally loud as fuck < 1239229465 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Quiet, I guess :-P < 1239229470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, unknown < 1239229500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wait for a while and use laberre or whatever the name was for that hyped intel thingy for gpu < 1239229507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :larrabee < 1239229510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1239229514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't see myself needing magic gpu powah any time soon < 1239229520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not that parallel of a guy. < 1239229529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1239229539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :last line: parse error < 1239229553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CORRECT SOURCE AND RESUBNIT! < 1239229570 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ... < 1239229638 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Darn, apparently the i7s tend to lead to more noise. < 1239229644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does compromise exist < 1239229737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I can understand they are noisy < 1239229746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, go test the computer in the shop before buying < 1239229751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :best way to be sure < 1239229754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no "shop". < 1239229765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a custom-configured, built-to-ship PC bought from an internet-only company. < 1239229768 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah, that is why I tend to avoid shopping over internet < 1239229779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I couldn't get exactly what I want anywhere else < 1239229816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, how will you solve this if you need a laptop... < 1239229819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wondering < 1239229824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Hm? < 1239229835 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :internet shopping is pretty stupid, i want things *now*, not in a week < 1239229841 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, harder with custom components < 1239229860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, I want to see that they work like I want before I buy, as in test it to see noise level or such < 1239229868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and how the keyboard feels < 1239229896 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't, i just take a cute one. < 1239229909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swedish proverb: "köp inte grisen i säcken" (do not buy the pig in the sack). I don't know what the English equivalent would be. < 1239229929 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err i should know this < 1239229938 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1239229963 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well know quite a lot of english in theory < 1239229969 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't buy a pig in a poke < 1239229987 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't poke a pig in a pie < 1239229992 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1239230027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what do you mean "in a poke" < 1239230032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't "poke" a verb < 1239230044 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in english everything is everything. < 1239230048 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1239230054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that explains a lot I guess. < 1239230058 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do not 'mean' anything, I gave you the correct English equivalent of that proverb < 1239230067 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1239230070 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this case, 'poke' means essentially a bag < 1239230081 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's the same thing, that's just the word used < 1239230118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, never heard "poke" in that meaning before.. < 1239230128 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FWIW I think it's archaic or very regional at the least < 1239230137 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1239230142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would explain it < 1239230155 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think I've ever witnessed its use outside that phrase < 1239230246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: so, about those case fans -- would you recommend taking them out? < 1239230248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess not since you haven't < 1239230266 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer safety/longevity over complete silence < 1239230273 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might as well use them since they're there < 1239230273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1239230280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I'm not risking anything. < 1239230308 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What I should do some time is boot without the GPU and ponder the noise level < 1239230350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Thing is, if I go with a core 2, the only fan left would be the PSU. But then I'm limited to a core 2 and 4GB of RAM. < 1239230368 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whence the 4 limit? < 1239230384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: endpcnoise don't sell more than 4. I could buy 8 seperately. But then I am still limited to Core 2. < 1239230404 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, of course if you consider Core 2 a limitation :-P < 1239230426 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, maybe it is nowadays; I bought my machine in November < 1239230429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Compared to an i7? Yes, I would < 1239230462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dear god, < 1239230471 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I consider the i7 a limitation compared to BlueGene/L < 1239230471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please make an i7 machine with a fanless cooler and no case fans. < 1239230472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Love, < 1239230473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Elliott < 1239230485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: The BlueGene/L is not in my price range. < 1239230497 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As the i7 wasn't in mine. :-) < 1239230553 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.silentpcreview.com/forums/viewtopic.php?t=51642 ← Gotta love how he asks if it'll be silent then lists 20 billion fans < 1239230599 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well he can't speak English < 1239230607 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He probably meant quiet < 1239230614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-) < 1239230634 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to sleep now, as I have to wake up in 6ish hours < 1239230642 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1239230647 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- > < 1239230665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how is 4 GB too small < 1239230667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean < 1239230671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I manage fine on 1.5 < 1239230683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I manage fine with core 2 duo 2.2ghz with 2.5GB of ram < 1239230691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I'm upgrading, and I've set out to get a high end machin < 1239230691 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1239230694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, then why the need for 8 instead of 4 < 1239230696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1239230700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In this context, 4GB is very small compared to the 6/8 I've looked at < 1239230710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it will be low end in a few years anyway < 1239230712 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why bother < 1239230720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, it'll be mid end in a few years, most likely. < 1239230733 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how do you define "few" < 1239230737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I define it as 5-6 < 1239230741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case < 1239230742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I meant 3 or so < 1239230745 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1239230752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In 5 years I'll be 18 < 1239230756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't really predict that far < 1239230757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh dear < 1239230762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's not worth thinking about < 1239230785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in 5 years I will be 24... oh dear < 1239230795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a long time. Half a decade. < 1239230797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah I see what you mean < 1239230806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, short in a cosmic perspective < 1239230815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything's short in a cosmic perspective < 1239230848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not really, "time until heat death" is not short < 1239230859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1239230872 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is compared to the time after heat death! < 1239230878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks about non-core-2-vs-i7 things < 1239230879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "current age of universe" isn't that small either < 1239230882 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like, say, getting a decent 30" monitor. < 1239230888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and kb/mouse. < 1239230893 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Sure it is, compared to time until heat death < 1239230906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I tried a 30" once, I ended up using a single area near the middle of the screen < 1239230913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really it is too large to be very useful < 1239230921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only when editing images do you use the full area < 1239230927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm on a 20" right now. It's stifling. < 1239230930 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't do virtual desktops < 1239230940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I do that but I only use the first one < 1239230941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1239230949 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :get another 20" then :) < 1239230951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I have some rarely used windows on the second one < 1239230955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal_: The 20" is an iMac < 1239230958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not using an imac as a monitor < 1239230959 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal, that is just as bad, I tried it too < 1239230963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just sillydiculous < 1239230968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: My market is 26-30", really < 1239230975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The main requirement is high DPI. < 1239230983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Must not be lower than about 95, preferably 100+ < 1239231005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 26" may work, but trust me 30" is just way too big. Go try one in a shop if you want it. Because really it is a waste of money < 1239231019 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: How many windows do you have open atm? < 1239231033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have 13 open, most of which are large browser windows. < 1239231034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, a sec < 1239231038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :12 < 1239231042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many are large? < 1239231055 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no, 14, gimp ones group < 1239231063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I'm leaning towards 26" < 1239231064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, all of them < 1239231069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since that gives me high DPI < 1239231074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I'm also small < 1239231078 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes they overlap, since I don't use all at once < 1239231082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't want to crane my neck < 1239231094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: is your monitor widescreen? < 1239231095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I ended up with a hurting neck on that 30" and I'm tall and large < 1239231112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, this one? no < 1239231116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I tried widescreen too, hate it < 1239231124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow, 26" @ 1920x1200 is only 87DPI < 1239231127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :end up shaking my head < 1239231134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's crap < 1239231138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I might know what you need < 1239231139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a sec < 1239231142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION looks for link < 1239231145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I need widescreen :-P < 1239231150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :welll < 1239231152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well* < 1239231154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is high res < 1239231156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me find it < 1239231169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it going to be monochrome or something silly like that < 1239231170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and high dpi < 1239231175 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no colour iirc < 1239231179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Forget it :-) < 1239231187 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why < 1239231194 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I won't use it? :P < 1239231197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it *is* colour < 1239231209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1239231211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"no colour iirc" < 1239231212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :parsed as < 1239231215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No colour, iirc" < 1239231216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no,* < 1239231216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of < 1239231217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1239231220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No, colour, iirc" < 1239231222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1239231229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2048x1536 seems to be the perfect res for a 26" display < 1239231230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :98 DPI < 1239231258 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Of course, you don't want too big a resolution < 1239231261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think the brand was NEC < 1239231263 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or you can't see anything! < 1239231266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't find the link right now < 1239231275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: What size/res, roughly? < 1239231301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, different sizes, from 17-40 iirc or s < 1239231302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so* < 1239231308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My current display is 105DPI < 1239231311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Says http://members.ping.de/~sven/dpi.html < 1239231314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for DPI huge < 1239231325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Like 1000dpi or something? < 1239231328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not that crazy < 1239231332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, more like 300 < 1239231353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wait, my current dpi is 99 < 1239231377 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah < 1239231383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why isn't there a good 26" display < 1239231458 0 :psygnisf_!n=psygnisf@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1239231497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Blar < 1239231539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is all so complicated < 1239231554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, meh can't find it. But it was tall-screen rather than wide-screen iirc. < 1239231561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ah./ < 1239231574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to play widescreen video < 1239231578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it really is a must < 1239231581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and it was insanely priced < 1239231594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figured < 1239231598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some 10 000 USD or something iirc < 1239231604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use bitmaps quite a lot < 1239231608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I don't want too high DPI < 1239231612 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :100 or so is just perfect for me < 1239231618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, except in the area where you render fonts < 1239231621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idea: < 1239231622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two screens < 1239231626 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the one for bitmaps < 1239231632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the one for text < 1239231632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1239231633 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 100DPI is completely sufficient for rendering fonts smoothl < 1239231634 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :y < 1239231639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1239231661 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is the resolution of your mouse? < 1239231684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is a shitty optical mouse < 1239231685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very low < 1239231690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I will buy a better one when I upgrade < 1239231697 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a nice optical mouse < 1239231699 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some 3000 DPI iirc < 1239231704 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or so < 1239231709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm an inaccurate pointer < 1239231712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So that's useless to me < 1239231729 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well you have to scale the value in xorg.conf < 1239231744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never want to touch xorg.conf < 1239231757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Option "Sensitivity" "0.4" < 1239231759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that works well < 1239231760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is my goal < 1239231764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, meh < 1239231769 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't normally have to touch any of the config files under Ubuntu < 1239231776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how boring < 1239231783 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how let-me-get-on-with-things < 1239231801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm < 1239231806 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So my current display is 100 dpi < 1239231810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most 26"s are 87 dpi < 1239231815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Grr. < 1239231911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, my old display was 86 d[o < 1239231911 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dpi < 1239231915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I could see the pixels easily < 1239231922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So definitely, regular 26"s won't do < 1239231928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Recommend a good monitor company? < 1239231955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :System | Preferences | Screen Resolution seems to get better with each version of Ubuntu < 1239231972 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all it actually does is rewrite xorg.conf, but it's a lot easier than touching that < 1239231981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1239231986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I was happy with my old Samsung for many many years < 1239231989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even better is autodetecting < 1239231991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a syncmaster < 1239231992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and System | Preferences | Mouse lets you set mouse speed pretty easily < 1239231996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it does autodetect normally < 1239232000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1239232001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have used ubuntu ais523 < 1239232003 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but things like dual monitors you normally need to mess with it < 1239232003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, in the end it died of old age < 1239232008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, modern ones are better < 1239232020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, xorg.conf is easy.., < 1239232023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...* < 1239232029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's not neccessary < 1239232031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and shouldn't be < 1239232036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's bad UI, nothing more, nothing less < 1239232039 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :internally? fine < 1239232043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a user interface? no way! < 1239232046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you are crazy < 1239232050 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, and having it as an internal format makes it easy to back up, etc < 1239232050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1239232053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm reasonable < 1239232059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as a user interface, though, it has various problems < 1239232060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not use a, I don't know... registry or something < 1239232060 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're an ubergeek who doesn't care about usability < 1239232061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :internally < 1239232062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1239232068 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, you have to keep resaving and so on every now and then to test your changes < 1239232074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't _need_ usability < 1239232077 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But I demand it < 1239232081 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas you just change an option in the Ubuntu GUIs and it starts working < 1239232084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's a smoother system < 1239232087 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for me, usability's just a way of doing other things faster < 1239232088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I find a text config *MORE USABLE* than a confusing GUI < 1239232096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That's why you need a non-confusing GUI < 1239232097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yes I care about usability < 1239232099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :False dichotomy < 1239232104 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: confusing? Gnome are really insistent about keeping the GUI dumbed down a lot < 1239232109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, show me one that isn't confusing < 1239232109 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KDE people laugh at them because of it < 1239232117 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: anything that isn't KDE < 1239232119 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: OS X's monitor gui, gnome's, ... < 1239232127 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KDE does really get it wrong in this respec < 1239232128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1239232129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Massively < 1239232130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :KDE's confusingness is good in a way, but it's the GUI equivalent of a conffile < 1239232131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, KDE is less confusing than Gnome. At least the option is there < 1239232138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with gnome you find there is no option < 1239232141 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is EVEN worse < 1239232141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1239232145 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the screensaver thing is silly, definitely < 1239232146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT IS NOT WHAT CONFUSING MEANS < 1239232152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 'screensaver thing'? < 1239232168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, " with gnome you find there is no option which is EVEN worse [than confusing]" < 1239232177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now stop saying I don't know what confusing is < 1239232181 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Gnome has no option to configure screensavers < 1239232189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You sure? < 1239232190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I want a powerful GUI which isn't confusing < 1239232191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ubuntu does, I think < 1239232192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then maybe < 1239232196 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the person in charge of commits in that part of Gnome has a personal vendetta against it < 1239232200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Screensavers are stupid anyway < 1239232205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: why? < 1239232209 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know < 1239232219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I remember seeing an option in gnome for it ages ago. < 1239232225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must have been 2004 or so < 1239232226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, they removed it < 1239232229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A far better alternative to screensavers is auto-standbying the displays < 1239232229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1239232232 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and there's no screensaver-configure option on my Gnome atm < 1239232236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All they serve as is annoying eyecandy < 1239232240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, my display auto-standbys < 1239232248 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my screensaver only displays if I lock the screen < 1239232251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1239232260 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in which case, the eyecandy is helpful due to the circumstances in which I usually lock < 1239232262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about powerful non-confusing GUI < 1239232267 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm waiting ais523 < 1239232279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you don't get it < 1239232286 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1239232286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :exactly, because it doesn't exist < 1239232289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus I can't get it < 1239232292 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was my point. < 1239232294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is not what i meant < 1239232298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while xorg.conf is not confusing < 1239232304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is easy to understand < 1239232307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: do you know what all the settings in it do? < 1239232314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you really are unplugged from reality, AnMaster < 1239232318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can you safely experiment with all the possible values? < 1239232322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, all I use yes. and I know where the docs are. < 1239232330 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need docs? < 1239232331 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Documentation is a flaw < 1239232341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as for safe experimenting, I know which ones are bad to touch. < 1239232342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Documentation is a sign that the interface was so unusable that they had to spend paragraphs creating a UI to the UI < 1239232343 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :documentation is helpful, things that work without documentation are better < 1239232355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, docs are not confusing at least in this case. < 1239232355 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Documentation of an interface is grounds for immediate and utter failure < 1239232359 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there an xorg.conf equivalent to visudo? < 1239232366 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I like documentation anyway < 1239232374 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally, my perfect interface does everything I want obviously < 1239232385 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Documentation for non-UIs is fine < 1239232386 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't mind if it has non-obvious power tools too which aren't needed but speed things up < 1239232389 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and those can be documented < 1239232390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, visudo just opens sudoers in a $EDITOR (set to nano for root) and check syntax when you close it < 1239232390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Documentation for UIs is redundancy < 1239232405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, it copies it first < 1239232409 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well true < 1239232414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like crontab -e < 1239232421 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.samsung.com/uk/consumer/detail/detail.do?group=itbusiness&type=monitors&subtype=lcd&model_cd=LS24KIEEFV/EDC < 1239232421 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that was implied < 1239232422 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1239232425 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This seems like a good monitor < 1239232430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Contrast Ratio : DC 10000:1 (1000:1) < 1239232433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice. < 1239232438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, response time < 1239232442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 5ms < 1239232445 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :94DPI, too < 1239232448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sounds low < 1239232450 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1239232460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The lowest response I've seen is 3ms < 1239232461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's yours < 1239232463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also their side take ages to load < 1239232472 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no clue :) < 1239232478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Acer AL2017 < 1239232482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it sucks pretty much < 1239232489 0 :Sgeo_!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1239232491 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The contrast-numbers and response-time-numbers have the marketing problem, it's all in how you measure it. < 1239232491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my old died and I needed a new one fast < 1239232497 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I took the best I could get same day < 1239232498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Of course < 1239232499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ^ < 1239232504 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But 1000:1 in any conditions is great < 1239232526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.samsung.com/uk/consumer/detail/detail.do?group=itbusiness&type=monitors&subtype=lcd&model_cd=LS24EDBLB/EDC < 1239232528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This also looks good < 1239232532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No response time info though < 1239232539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems to be for photographers and such < 1239232545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So probably slow response time < 1239232564 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6ms. < 1239232570 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's in the full spec. < 1239232575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal_: ah < 1239232579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's unreasonably high < 1239232579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo. < 1239232594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1239232597 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have here this reasonable LG L246WH (24" 1920x1200, I think it's pretty close to 94dpi) and the sideways-up Samsung Syncmaster 910T, which I think is particularly nice. I doubt I'd notice much response-time-related problems since I just keep IRC on this monitor. < 1239232597 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :syncmaster < 1239232601 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I had that before < 1239232603 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other one was 12ms with some "MagicSpeed" supposedly making it 5ms, but I'd be wary. < 1239232621 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I used to have a samsung syncmaster 171B, it rocked, back when 17" was considered huge < 1239232626 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have 16ms and 8ms displays, and it doesn't really bother me < 1239232628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll go for LG < 1239232635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I used to have a 14" display @ 1024x768 < 1239232637 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ROCKIN' < 1239232639 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about colour matching < 1239232639 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd be wary of any official numbers; reviews from suitably obsessed people are usually the way to go. < 1239232650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the syncmaster was pretty good at that < 1239232656 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :good colours I mean < 1239232658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Doesn't matter to me :-) < 1239232661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1239232662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want good colours < 1239232665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm not obsessed < 1239232667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm no photographer < 1239232668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that's way more important than typography! < 1239232673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want an ICC PROFILE! < 1239232695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: lg's site has no 246? < 1239232703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Typography is more beautiful than any photo. :) < 1239232706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION *war! war!* < 1239232715 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In the CRT days I had a syncmaster 959nf, which was the greatness. Chosen mostly because it had BNC connectors for input and supported sync-on-green for that, so it was easy to hook the sparcstation to it... but it was still great. < 1239232719 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, a photo can say more than 1000 fonts < 1239232740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: A typographical piece can express more precisely than any photo. < 1239232741 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that the English form of that idiom < 1239232745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1239232755 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: http://uk.lge.com/products/model/detail/widescreen_l246wh.jhtml < 1239232772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2000:1 contrast, ey? Even if that's just bullshitting, that's some balls. < 1239232789 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ever heard of a shock text? Heard of shock photos. I think the photo clearly wins. < 1239232792 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, didn't that Samsung say 10000:1. :p < 1239232799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Text can be shocking for sure. < 1239232805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: It then clarified, saying 1000:1 :D < 1239232821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is true. But it won't give as strong emotions. < 1239232824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That thing looks great < 1239232825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to the reader/viewer < 1239232828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I hope you don't mind if I buy it < 1239232836 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As long as you don't steal this one. < 1239232843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You can't make something as ugly as shock images with typography. < 1239232846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's an advantage. < 1239232868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, Arial < 1239232870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes you can < 1239232884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: You just proved your own point wrong, then < 1239232886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION forces ehird to use Arial instead of Helvetica for everything < 1239232899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw a tshirt saying "Helvetica" in Arial and another in Comic Sans < 1239232902 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One minor point I don't like with this L246WH is that it has just D-SUB+HDMI; most (well, at least many) include the whole D-SUB+DVI+HDMI triplet. I have this other older desktop box I occasionally boot, and now I've had to connect that with the VGA cable since there's only one digital input, and I don't really want to buy an HDMI switch-box just because. < 1239232902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They were beautiful < 1239232906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wow < 1239232912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's crazy < 1239232936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, Tahoma (sp?) < 1239232948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: there was another in book antiqua which had a disclaimer saying the makers aren't responsible if you get beaten up for wearing it :-) < 1239232961 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1239232961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, link < 1239232967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Can't find atm < 1239232969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1239233035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://uk.lge.com/products/model/detail/widescreen_w2452t.jhtml This looks nice too, I dunno what that DFC contrast-fucking is though < 1239233088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: any complaints about the l246wh? < 1239233089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it looks nice < 1239233130 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just the one I said up there about connectors. Well, and the control buttons aren't the best I've seen, but it's not really very often I touch 'em. < 1239233151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh, no DVI? < 1239233156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno if the box I'm getting has hdmi < 1239233165 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it comes with a DVI-HDMI cable, I think. < 1239233182 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least I don't recall getting one separately. < 1239233189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.endpcnoise.com/cgi-bin/e/more_info/20010.html Nothing hdmi-y here. < 1239233229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1239233232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing about dvi either < 1239233256 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"However, the audio and remote-control features of HDMI will not be available" < 1239233259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oH nOeS!!! < 1239233273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: What are unnice about the buttonies? < 1239233283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Vector_Video_Standards2.svg my monitor is SXGA+ < 1239233286 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1239233306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WSXGA+ here < 1239233315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and will be WUXGA < 1239233318 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are on the underside of the monitor border, it just feels a bit unnatural. Very non-intrusive too, of course. < 1239233376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, where are the buttons on mac monitors? < 1239233382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as that imac < 1239233382 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I pretty much picked this one because the previous monitor was also a LG (L2000C, a 20" 1600x1200 4:3 one). And I actually liked the Samsung 20" I *ordered* (rather similar specs, except it had composite/s-video inputs too) but the first two had dead pixels, and by the time the store had managed to process the return of the second one (the whole process took *months*) Samsung had stopped manufacturing that model, so I just switched to a close equivalent. < 1239233389 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1239233411 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Apple logo, go to the left, flip over to the back < 1239233414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your power button's there < 1239233417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are no other buttons < 1239233439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, heh < 1239233448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, power button on the back-side? < 1239233456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right. How often do you press it? :P < 1239233474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, which imac model is this? screen on ball or? < 1239233496 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait no, that's older < 1239233502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This one: < 1239233511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/91/IMac_transparency.png < 1239233512 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If your display card will be that GV-R485MC-1GH ("Gigabyte Radeon HD 4850 1GB") it seems to be a 2*DVI card, but also include one DVI-to-HDMI adapter. < 1239233518 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do macs need a separate on button? < 1239233521 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.mccullagh.org/db9/1ds-5/intel-imac-at-macworld.jpg < 1239233526 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should ship from the factory on, and never turn off, just hibernate < 1239233528 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.dean.clas.uconn.edu/csg/images/guidelines/intel_imac.jpg < 1239233529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, is the height adjustable < 1239233540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: No, but you can tilt the display < 1239233547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need some books below my current monitor to get it high enough < 1239233547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I would have no problem with that < 1239233550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that really sucks < 1239233551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well < 1239233553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really really sucks < 1239233559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a power button is needed in emergency cases < 1239233569 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Heh I'm getting a height-adjustable desk just to get the monitor low enough < 1239233586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well samsung had good foot, high and higher < 1239233593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a good foot* < 1239233598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you ever see me in person you probably won't notice I'm there until you look down < 1239233605 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how tall are you? < 1239233611 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well you will have to look up quite a bit < 1239233614 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: didn't we go over this yesterday < 1239233614 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is short < 1239233618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lemme look < 1239233622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, 187 or 188 cm, forgot which < 1239233651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tallest in family too, about 3 cm taller than dad and 5 cm taller than mom < 1239233655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1239233660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he's talking about me... isn;'t he < 1239233669 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I seem to recall that my performa 52xx powermac (a *really* messed up piece of hardware -- #1 in the top-12 worst macs list -- just see the short intro at http://lowendmac.com/roadapples/x200.shtml or something) still had a power button in the ADB keyboard. < 1239233671 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, he didn't direct the question at any nick < 1239233675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I don't know < 1239233696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:20:07 ← I am 146cm = 4 feet 9 inches. And 32kg. < 1239233700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: there you go < 1239233710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, no picture there < 1239233715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems < 1239233727 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: wow, that is short < 1239233730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what's up with that random garbage < 1239233733 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://lowendmac.com/ppc/performa-5200.html has a tiny picture. < 1239233736 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas AnMaster's about 8 feet tall, from what I hear < 1239233739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: clog's mangling of ← < 1239233749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I don't know. I'm using metric. < 1239233754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 8 feet? Err... isn't that like, tallest man in the world scale? < 1239233761 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :188 centimeters = 6.167979 feet < 1239233762 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and around 82 or 83 kg iirc < 1239233763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Says google < 1239233769 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: almost certainly above tallest man in the world scale < 1239233769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But yes, wow, I am short. < 1239233778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh it was a joke < 1239233778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1239233781 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 1 metre = 39 inches, you can work it out from there < 1239233806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, my dad had a 5600 iirc, looked almost the same < 1239233810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like I said, first words of two longtime internetfriends I met in August: "You're shorter than I expected." < 1239233835 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Oh yeah? Well you're stupider than I expected!" < 1239233842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie I don't remember exact model < 1239233844 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't remember the exact model, I don't think it was 5200 but some 52?0 instead. I don't have it any more, sold it to someone to save space. :p < 1239233845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lament: osnap < 1239233852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No I was too busy being shy for the first 15 minutes :P < 1239233891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you < 1239233892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meet < 1239233896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :internet friends < 1239233897 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in real life < 1239233902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's fucked up < 1239233913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seeing friends IRL. < 1239233916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gosh, how fucked up. < 1239233919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah < 1239233922 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but internet ones < 1239233927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how do you dare do it < 1239233933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's well known that 90% of people on the internet are pedophiles. < 1239233941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The other 10% are ephebophiles. < 1239233976 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer the standard backronym for the alt hierarchy on usenet < 1239233985 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's apparently full of anarchists, lunatics, and terrorists < 1239233991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1239233996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I classify myself as a lunatic, in that classification < 1239234010 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think that classification generalises to the whole internet < 1239234022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so, care to clarify? < 1239234031 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1239234044 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is listening to radio < 1239234064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1239234072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd go for same category as ais523 < 1239234085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i meant the previous stuff < 1239234095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which < 1239234108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:38 AnMaster: that's fucked up < 1239234133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah, you don't know how the person would be IRL < 1239234145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've known them very well since 2006. < 1239234155 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :knowing you are so small I wouldn't be scared meeting you IRL but even so... < 1239234208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If they're secretly murder-rapists, they did a very successful job of creating a fake online identity stretching back years and gaining so many connections and meeting with others I knew. I'm flattered they'd go to so much effort to kill me. < 1239234260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well indeed, you aren't important enough < 1239234286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Clearly our meeting was just furthering their plan to abduct and murder the helpless child known as Barack Obama. < 1239234350 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've met up with people I barely knew in RL.. although I had a major crush on her 7 years ago < 1239234360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that's a bit too late now < 1239234372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: THEY ARE TOO DEDICATED TO LET AGE GET IN THE WAY < 1239234393 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yay online crush < 1239234396 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've met up with internet friends. Except one of them did actually like young girls. And got jailed for it. :| < 1239234403 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no it's because you are wrong. They are out to get Obama's grand child < 1239234406 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal_++ would read again < 1239234410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or whatever you call it) < 1239234415 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, as of yet unborn < 1239234428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: They will convince it to meet them while it's still in the womb. < 1239234432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then abduct and kill it. < 1239234435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Without it leaving the womb. < 1239234441 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are *incredibly* crafty. < 1239234445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1239234508 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : they should ship from the factory on, and never turn off, just hibernate <<< or be on when plugged in < 1239234526 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, in practice you need a way to turn it on if the battery runs out < 1239234526 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meeting you people could be a horrible disappointment, in that it might actually turn out that you are all just sort-of regularly human and so on. Although I guess that has a rather low probability in at least oklopol's case. < 1239234531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in theory, just give it a perfect battery < 1239234556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: these people turned out to be exactly the same as online :-P < 1239234562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol, which "they" < 1239234574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did not anticipate chipping a tooth and losing my ticket, though. < 1239234594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I walked into the glass covering a museum display without realising it was there. *Bam*) < 1239234662 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION reads up on the virus asie caught < 1239234668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, heh < 1239234671 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ridiculous, it's an actual virus rather than a worm < 1239234676 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it infects all sorts of file formats < 1239234679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including ASP and HTML < 1239234681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how does it spread < 1239234691 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: from file to file, the same way other viruses do < 1239234693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it doesn't < 1239234696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1239234699 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a file containing it is copied and run, then the copy spreads < 1239234711 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's mostly spreading through illegal executables < 1239234711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i should write a virus that installs ubuntu and makes it look vaguely like windows < 1239234713 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :security model fail < 1239234717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and renames apps to their windows equivalents < 1239234718 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, a retrovirus! *punnity* < 1239234724 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, :D < 1239234736 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: don't, it would still be illegal < 1239234754 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :besides, it would lead to even more GPL FUD < 1239234762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I would just advertise it as computer speederupperer and put it all in the small print that nobody reads < 1239234775 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And what happens when users discover that their Windows-only programs that don't work in WINE and have no Linux equivelent are missing? < 1239234779 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even so, it's debatable whether EULAs are enforcable < 1239234787 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 feet tall is not tallest man in the world scale < 1239234790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: That's their problem :P < 1239234792 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tallest man was 279 iirc < 1239234795 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: people with those sort of programs normally don't catch viruses < 1239234797 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: what, feet? < 1239234800 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tallest soldier finnish 259 iirc < 1239234802 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cm < 1239234806 0 :lament!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :279 feet < 1239234811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no feet < 1239234814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm sure it's fet < 1239234815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*feet < 1239234832 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: Is this about: "Väinö Myllyrinne – Tallest Finn, standing 8'1" (247 cm). Myllyrinne was born in 1909 and died April 13, 1963." Or something else? < 1239234833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_Wadlow < 1239234835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 feet < 1239234837 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tallest person evar < 1239234837 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or 251... < 1239234840 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh read < 1239234846 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so using Active Worlds or Allegiance is a good indication of computer savviness? < 1239234853 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yes, and i see i misrememberized the number < 1239234859 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only justification anyone's thought up for Virut is that it's designed to make Windows look bad to force up Mac and Linux sales < 1239234870 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: I've never heard of them < 1239234874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux sales? < 1239234877 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do they work under Cedega or Crossover? < 1239234881 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :activeworlds.com freeallegiance.org < 1239234882 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is quite sad considering it's only like 10 years since i remembered pretty much the whole guinness world records 1993 book < 1239234886 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yep, maybe they're NOVELL SABOTEURS < 1239234893 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I'd bet that Alleg doesn't work under Cedega, no clue about AW < 1239234905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: vm foo < 1239234906 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course i didn't actually know how to memorize back then, i just read it a lot. < 1239234928 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you'd include a copy of MS Windows in a Windows destroying virus? < 1239234937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1239234939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was talking about you < 1239234943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo_: yes, so Microsoft end up suing all their customers for pirating windows < 1239234945 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have to check the 279 too < 1239234951 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be hilarious < 1239234959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1239234990 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1239234996 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that was wrong too < 1239234998 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1239235001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Security researcher Jack Louis, who had discovered several serious security flaws in TCP software was killed in a fire on the ides of March, dealing a blow to efforts to repair the problem." < 1239235002 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-Slashdot < 1239235013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OR WAS IT A CONSPIRACY ? ?? < 1239235015 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :grr < 1239235023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and most of the people on the article were just laughing at it, rather than mourning that someone died < 1239235048 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I went and moderated up the people who were telling people not to laugh at it < 1239235060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I was a Slashdot moderator a few minutes ago, although I'm not any more < 1239235061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some people want their death to be greeted with laughter < 1239235070 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slashdot makes people moderators at random < 1239235072 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it doesn't last very long < 1239235079 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1239235092 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the Python guy, right? < 1239235103 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: what's the :D at? < 1239235104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guido van rossum? :D < 1239235112 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: sd < 1239235130 0 :Sgeo_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=fsHk9WC7fnQ (NSFW language) < 1239235142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklopol: well, it doesn't work awfully, although it tends to lead to groupthink < 1239235169 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : yeah makes sense it would < 1239235173 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-