00:00:01 <ais523> Deewiant: did I get the wrong name
00:00:08 <ais523> yep, you linked to the page I cared about
00:00:13 <AnMaster> There is currently no text in this page, you can search for this page title in other pages or edit this page.
00:00:15 -!- neldoreth|lp has quit (Client Quit).
00:00:24 <Deewiant> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Magic_The_Gathering_card_deck_of_programming_language
00:00:48 <ais523> fibonacci was rather hard to write, and I/O would be an utter pain
00:01:13 <ais523> zzo38 started it, I think I wrote the program though and someone else (maybe zzo38?) corrected it
00:01:26 <Deewiant> ais523: What order is the deck in
00:01:38 <ais523> the card listed first is first in the deck
00:01:45 <zzo38> The deck is in the order given and is not shuffled at start of the game
00:01:56 <AnMaster> <Deewiant> AnMaster: If you really care at all, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Magic:_The_Gathering_rules <-- I fail to see enough citations from different sources on it indeed
00:02:03 -!- neldoreth|lp has joined.
00:02:12 <Deewiant> AnMaster: I browsed it over and it looks correct
00:02:23 <Deewiant> AnMaster: If you want the official source instead, http://www.wizards.com/Magic/TCG/Article.aspx?x=magic/rules
00:02:40 <Deewiant> Well of course it relies on a single source
00:02:44 <AnMaster> this is clearly a reverse a pyramid scheme
00:02:58 <Deewiant> Cleanup I agree with, but single-source is just stupid
00:03:16 <AnMaster> Deewiant, it is a single source though
00:03:20 <ais523> AnMaster: a good description
00:03:28 <Deewiant> AnMaster: Yes, but it's stupid that it's a problem
00:03:39 <ais523> Deewiant: the point is, if there's only a single source, why should it be in Wikipedia in the first place? you could just go to the source instead
00:03:50 <AnMaster> ais523, as in manufacture wants everyone to buy more and more cars, and everyone has to, to be able to play at all.
00:04:06 <ais523> yes, Wizards have to make their money somehow
00:04:07 <Deewiant> ais523: So if something is described in only one place it is inherently unencyclopedic?
00:04:15 <ais523> personally I don't mind as long as they keep making good cards, but IMO they stopped
00:04:21 <ais523> they may start again some time
00:04:29 <AnMaster> ais523, IMO a fair games needs everyone to start with a fair distribution of the cards. like shuffling cards then dealing them
00:04:36 <ehird> AnMaster: Uh... you mean, they sell the game, to make profit?
00:04:39 <ais523> Deewiant: pretty mcuh, encyclopedias summarize knowledge, what could they do but copy the source?
00:04:40 <ehird> HOLY FUCK ON A POGO STICK!
00:05:08 <Deewiant> ais523: Everything comes from only one source originally anyway
00:05:22 <AnMaster> Deewiant, sure, but you said everyone had his own cards. You don't deal cards from the same stack as the opponent
00:05:28 <Deewiant> Except in the rare case of the same thing being independently invented in two different places
00:05:28 <oklopol> AnMaster: that's just a different kind of game, not in any way more fair.
00:05:38 <zzo38> I only buy the cards when playing a limited tournament
00:05:43 <AnMaster> oklopol, it depends on how many cards you bought
00:05:45 <ais523> AnMaster: the decks wouldn't work correctly if you mixed them, people try to pick subsets of cards that work well with each other
00:05:57 <oklopol> it's as much about building a good deck as it is about the playing, well, at least approximately
00:06:04 <ehird> AnMaster: i hate that argument
00:06:06 <Deewiant> AnMaster: Yes, that just adds a new element (the main element?) of strategy to the game: your deck has to be built well, it's not enough that you can play well
00:06:16 <ehird> "<argument>" "<rebuttal>" "ok BUT STILL [even though I have no argument left]"
00:06:27 <zzo38> You still make a deck in limited, only in limited you are limited to the cards they give to you and it doesn't matter how rich you are.
00:06:29 <Deewiant> Yes, I'd say it's the main strategy actually
00:06:39 <AnMaster> Deewiant, so you have keeping to buy more and more to be able to play
00:06:48 <ehird> AnMaster: you're being a fool
00:06:54 <ais523> AnMaster: yes, that's how Wizard's make their money
00:06:55 <Deewiant> AnMaster: No, you don't have to throw your cards away after playing once
00:07:08 <ehird> Deewiant: what if they get moldy?!
00:07:15 <ais523> they tried it with D&D too, which is a disaster IMO
00:07:18 <zzo38> AnMaster: Only in constructed! In limited you only have to buy the cards as part of the entrance fee, other cards you own cannot be used in limited
00:07:31 <Deewiant> But if you want to keep on playing in tournaments then yes, you need to buy new cards since new sets of cards appear every now and then
00:07:42 <AnMaster> ais523, yes and that is silly for a game like this IMO. There is no "Poker Sixth Edition"
00:07:49 -!- neldoreth|lp has quit (Client Quit).
00:07:54 <ehird> its a good thing magic is nothing like poker
00:07:57 <oklopol> AnMaster: it's not about putting the best m&g cards in your deck, it's about having cards, then deciding on a good subset of them for a deck
00:07:58 <ehird> otherwise your argument would make one iota of sense!
00:08:09 <zzo38> I play D&D 3.5 edition still, 4E is not real D&D in my opinion. I am a good defensive player at D&D
00:08:26 <impomatic> So, anyone play Nethack, or Pokemon, or Harry Potter TCG? :-P
00:08:34 <ehird> i used to have pokemon cards
00:08:41 <ehird> but I gave them away in FOOLISH CHILDISH PIQUE
00:08:55 <ehird> Deewiant: M A K E I T N O W
00:09:08 <ehird> AnMaster: nethack trading card game.
00:09:11 <ehird> which should be made.
00:09:13 <Deewiant> I have a deck of Jyhad but that's it
00:09:19 <zzo38> I have played pokemon card, sometimes (rarely) I still do, against my brother (I borrow some of his cards and use those to make a deck)
00:09:27 <ehird> AnMaster: ... lol!!!
00:09:35 <ehird> how have you been carrying this conversation ...
00:09:37 <ais523> oh wow, nethack TCG, someone really should make that
00:09:40 <Deewiant> AnMaster: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Collectible_card_game
00:09:49 <ehird> AnMaster: Magic is a trading card game
00:09:55 <ehird> so is pokémon, etc
00:10:10 <AnMaster> but, there are so few nethack releases you can't really make any upgrades
00:10:22 <ehird> eh, there are enough
00:10:25 <Deewiant> There's so much content in Nethack
00:10:31 <ais523> doesn't matter, TCG people just model more of the game
00:10:32 <Deewiant> You don't have to release cards for all at once
00:10:41 <ehird> I wonder what the mailer daemon would b
00:10:49 <ehird> "Go and check your postbox"
00:10:58 <Deewiant> Decide on rules first before thinking about cards :-P
00:11:14 <zzo38> I don't invent TCG. I invent PCG (Printable Card Game), which is like TCG with all the capitalism thrown out. So you cannot purchase cards, you have to print them yourself and mix them and then play some limited style (such as a booster pack draft, etc)
00:11:26 <ehird> zzo38: stop it, you'll get AnMaster excited.
00:11:32 <oklopol> zzo38: that sounds a lot more boring
00:11:35 <AnMaster> <zzo38> I don't invent TCG. I invent PCG (Printable Card Game), which is like TCG with all the capitalism thrown out. <-- sounds like a good idea.
00:11:43 <Deewiant> zzo38: Same thing as TCG, just that no centralized authority sells the cards.
00:11:49 <ehird> now we get to hear from AnMaster about how evil charging money for anything is
00:11:55 <ehird> SNOOZEFEST ACTIVATE
00:12:19 <Deewiant> If such a PCG existed there'd be a market for the cards rather quickly, I suspect.
00:12:19 <oklopol> for me the most thrilling part of playing m&g was probably buying a random deck and then looking through it to see what i got...
00:12:21 <AnMaster> ehird, it isn't evil to charge money... it makes sense, just no for certain things
00:12:28 <Deewiant> And it's only a matter of time before somebody sets up shop.
00:12:31 <AnMaster> it makes sense for say, food, hardware or lots of other things
00:12:38 <oklopol> if you could just print a good deck for yourself, it'd lose all the excitement
00:12:39 <ehird> charging money for cards is probably one of the most reasonable applications of capitalism
00:12:42 <zzo38> Charging money for things is not evil, obviously you have to earn the money, but being greedy to earn money is the evil
00:13:04 <AnMaster> but NOT software, or reverse pyramid scheme
00:13:12 <zzo38> oklopol: "if you could just print a good..." not if you are playing limited!
00:13:20 <Deewiant> zzo38: I'm not sure how TCGs imply greediness; a lot of R&D goes into MtG, you have to pay the people
00:13:29 <oklopol> zzo38: what does that mean?
00:13:31 <ehird> AnMaster: SELLING TCG CARDS IS NOT A REVERSE PYRAMID SCHEME! THEY'RE NOT EVEN RELATED! STOP BULLSHITTING :|
00:13:43 <Deewiant> oklopol: Meh, I mostly enjoy coming up with a deck idea and then trying variations to see if it works out
00:13:45 <ehird> AnMaster: do you even KNOW what a pyramid scheme IS? look it up!!
00:13:45 <AnMaster> ehird, <ais523> AnMaster: a good description
00:13:51 <impomatic> I considered making a PCG based on Corewar, but I could figure out decent mechanics without losing the spirit of Corewar
00:13:55 <ehird> AnMaster: nice argument to authority
00:13:58 <zzo38> And there is nothing wrong with charging money for cards. Just the PCG idea means you do not have to buy the cards if you don't want to, you can make your own card, print them yourself, or whatever, but you still might want to purchase them instead if that makes the cards a better quality.
00:14:00 <oklopol> Deewiant: sure, but i was never a good player :)
00:14:01 <ehird> unfortunately those are invalid too
00:14:02 <ais523> what, I'm authority now?
00:14:15 <ehird> ais523: it's an argument-to-authority regardless of your status
00:14:21 <AnMaster> ehird, I know what a pyramid scheme is, otherwise I wouldn't have compared it with one.
00:14:23 <ehird> "someone else said this, QED."
00:14:28 <Deewiant> zzo38: So the difference is essentially only that the official rules allow proxies?
00:14:29 <oklopol> Deewiant: i guess i liked that collecting part more than the playing part.
00:14:31 <AnMaster> ehird, shouting just makes you look stupid though.
00:14:43 <Deewiant> oklopol: For me it's exactly the opposite :-)
00:14:51 <ais523> luckily, the cards have nice art on, most of the commons are probably worth it even if you don't play
00:15:08 <Deewiant> I don't like the new art, it's too cartoony
00:15:15 <Deewiant> The new art as of 5-6 years ago
00:15:46 <zzo38> Deewiant: Well, sort of. Also it would be with freedom, you can agree to play with cards you invented yourself, other people can sell other cards for the same game (their own cards) which people can then make as many copies as they want, on paper or on internet, and people can agree which cards are allowed
00:15:56 <AnMaster> I heard of people who still play D&D by the original rules. Now that sounds like a great idea.
00:16:26 <ais523> well, 3e and 4e are independent games, and both are popular
00:16:32 <ais523> yay for open source roleplaying games
00:16:32 <zzo38> So, basically PCG is just what TCG would be as if it were a Free Software/Open Source project.
00:16:46 <ais523> but it's unconnected to 3 instead of the name
00:16:54 <oklopol> i prefer it over 3 even though i haven't really played either.
00:16:57 <ais523> 3 was open-sourced, so various of Wizard's competitors are continuing it under a different name
00:16:58 <Deewiant> Just like 3 is unconnected to 2
00:17:12 <zzo38> I started inventing my own rules for RPG game also called Icosahedral (find it on LiMaWiki) but it isn't finished yet. If you don't understand arcane magic, just be a fighter.
00:17:15 <ais523> I meant "except the name"
00:17:17 <Deewiant> AnMaster: As in, only the name is the same
00:17:22 <oklopol> i got this opinion from descriptions of why 4 is worse than 3.
00:17:59 <ehird> " If you don't understand arcane magic, just be a fighter."
00:18:23 <zzo38> 4E is not necessarily a bad game, but it is a bad D&D game, it is a bad role-playing game. I still prefer 3.5E and so does everyone in the group I play with. We also play without miniatures
00:18:24 <Deewiant> It is well over 2 so I'm going to sleep at this point
00:18:29 <AnMaster> ehird, I'm forced to agree with you on this QOTD
00:18:43 <ais523> 3 is a roleplaying game, 4 is a computer game in pencil-and-paper form
00:18:47 <oklopol> Deewiant: oh is it south park time already? :D
00:19:01 <ehird> ais523: has anyone computerized 4?
00:19:02 <ehird> maybe it'll be good
00:19:24 <oklopol> AnMaster: words you use 10 times a day tend to get shorter
00:19:25 <ais523> ehird: Wizards did, sort of, but it was buggy and you had to play a monthly fee
00:19:49 <ais523> also, I use "the" much more than 10 times a day and it hasn't shortened to "th" yet
00:19:49 <ehird> implicit: [of south park]
00:19:54 <ehird> from: 00:18 oklopol: Deewiant: oh is it south park time already? :D
00:19:57 <ehird> ais523: rly? ur od
00:21:04 <oklopol> ais523: well, i don't really think of "the" as a word in that sense, i mean it's just sentence structure.
00:21:14 <oklopol> and episode is something you have in your mind when using the word
00:21:23 <oklopol> so you actively realize your using it
00:21:42 <ehird> EVACUATION PROCEDURE ENABLED
00:21:44 <ehird> { EMPTY THE BUILDING }
00:21:46 <ehird> NOTHING TO SEE HERE
00:21:48 * ehird BEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEP
00:21:54 <ehird> OKLOPOL MISTAKE CLASS 3
00:21:57 <oklopol> i guess i have become a complete failure today.
00:22:01 <ehird> THE SITUATION IS UNDER CONTROL
00:22:03 <zzo38> What would the card called "Alpha" in Unplugged.mse-set do if it were tapped? I guess "Un-" cards do not have to have consistent rules. But "Unstate" is *not* a "Un-" card even though it has "Un" in its name. "Unstate" is a normal card, even though it is strange and something that Wizards would probably never print
00:22:04 <ehird> EVERYBODY COME BACK IN
00:22:10 <oklopol> first a 4, then two grammar mistakes
00:22:30 <ais523> zzo38: you can tell if it's an uncard by the border colour
00:22:37 <ais523> silver = uncard, black/white = normal card
00:22:54 <ais523> black and white used to mean different things but Wizards kept getting the distinction wrong, so they eventually abandoned it
00:23:08 <zzo38> By the border color, they are all uncards. But the effect of these cards are not all the effects of uncards (some are, some aren't, and some have no effect at all)
00:23:13 -!- Sgeo_ has joined.
00:24:10 <ais523> cards made as jokes that can't be played in tournaments, but that you can buy anyway
00:24:13 <oklopol> i cannot wrap my brain around this new concept.
00:24:23 <ehird> ais523: now THAT'S capitalism!
00:24:34 <oklopol> like that one that when played forces another player to dance around the table 10 rounds
00:24:35 <ais523> some of them are rather funny, others aren't
00:24:35 <Sgeo_> ais523, I love the uncards
00:24:40 <ehird> ais523: why do people buy them
00:24:44 <Sgeo_> Unglued and unhinged
00:24:52 <ais523> ehird: I've known people to draft them before now
00:24:53 <impomatic> I bought some of those broken magic cards without realising :-(
00:24:57 <ais523> although I haven't done myself
00:24:58 <zzo38> And some of these cards have non-uncard effects even though they certainly wouldn't be printed in a non-uncard set. By "non-uncard" I mean cards that the rules are not inconsistent and they do not require the use of special uncard rules either
00:25:03 <oklopol> ais523: cards like that? i've only seen a few
00:25:09 <oklopol> or you mean something less uncardy
00:25:13 <Sgeo_> Now, if only the infinite mana card didn't require 15 mana to play
00:25:17 <oklopol> i don't know what's forbidden
00:25:19 <ais523> oklopol: much of them work much like that
00:25:37 <oklopol> all i know about tournaments is they added the 60 card in the deck rule after machine gun was invented
00:25:51 <oklopol> because tournaments became simply about who gets first turn
00:26:08 <oklopol> because everyone had the same deck and won on first turn
00:26:27 <oklopol> err yes a combination of 7 cards that does infinite damage
00:26:39 <zzo38> A card based on something outside of the game, such as the age of the players, the day of the week, or time of day, is not a "non-uncard". Cards with fractions 1/2s and non-proper colors, inconsistent effect, are also not qualify as "non-uncard". But "Unstate" does count as a "non-uncard" in my opinion.
00:27:03 <ais523> oklopol: you mean that there wasn't always a minimum-card-count rule?
00:27:08 <zzo38> Unstate is a card in Unplugged.mse-set (one of the two sets I made)
00:27:10 <ais523> that rule is there for obivous reasons
00:27:11 <Sgeo_> zzo38, there are uncards with non-proper colors?
00:27:21 <ais523> Sgeo_: using uncards it's possible to generate pink mana
00:27:25 <oklopol> ais523: no, or i've been lied to
00:27:28 <ais523> and that doesn't even involve any of zzo38's
00:27:48 <zzo38> No, but uncards are allowed to use non-proper colors (for example, your eye colors, even if it isn't one of the colors of Magic). Non-uncards are not allowed to do this.
00:27:57 <oklopol> but you'd think the source would know, he gets invited to the finnish championships every year
00:28:13 <ais523> oklopol: I'm not saying you're likely
00:28:24 <ais523> just I'm surprised that Mr. Garfield didn't think of it
00:28:52 <ais523> there are enough cards in Magic that given a perfect draw, you can win on turn 1 without even spending mana
00:28:57 <oklopol> with a small number of cards you're on thin ice
00:29:02 <oklopol> because you lose when you run out of cards
00:29:18 <zzo38> Please read some of my Unplugged.mse-set and SuperUnplugged.mse-set I think you might be interested in a few of those cards. (You need to either have Magic Set Editor or to just unzip it as if it were a ZIP file and open the contained files in text editor)
00:29:37 <ais523> zzo38: why not unzip it and cat together all the contained files?
00:29:45 <zzo38> The minimum number of cards is 40 in limited, 60 in constructed
00:30:10 <zzo38> ais523: Because some are picture files, some are text files, and the different files (even text files) might have different formats anyways
00:30:13 <ais523> I still think your set will be full of degenerate combos
00:30:26 <ais523> zzo38: then sort by the output of file first
00:30:42 -!- OoS has joined.
00:31:08 <ehird> oklopol: its impomatic
00:31:19 <ais523> still a nice nick, though
00:31:27 <oklopol> OoS: sorry, mistake, i hate it
00:31:29 * Sgeo_ growls angrily at http://theorderofsticks.wordpress.com
00:31:44 <ais523> ehird: on another note, we really need to get BF Joust back up somehow
00:31:50 <ais523> the contract doesn't allow anyone but Goethe to modify it...
00:32:00 <ehird> ais523: just make a new one
00:32:01 <zzo38> No I can't do that, ais523! But I did do one thing, put the text in the file called Unplugged_set.txt in case you want to look at it (you won't see the pictures for some of the cards, though)
00:32:05 <ehird> I'll code tomorrow, I guess
00:32:18 -!- M0ny has quit ("PEW PEW").
00:32:22 <Sgeo_> ehird, this person is slowly uploading OOTS comics, for no discernable reason, and ignoring what everyone is saying about copyright
00:32:41 <ais523> has Rich Burlew tried to sue him yet?
00:32:59 <ehird> Sgeo_: As an avowed pirate, I cannot possibly comment. (It's not like he's claiming them as their own.)
00:33:24 * ais523 remembers to stop working on cocoding projects with ehird in case ehird tries to sneak copyvios into them
00:33:24 <ehird> (I will say nothing of the site owner's actual intentions; they are probably not too innocent.)
00:33:33 <ehird> ais523: I don't do that.
00:33:44 <ehird> ais523: I pirate for usage only :-P
00:33:45 <Sgeo_> At least the person added "If you want see them already or see more visit http://www.giantitp.com/comics/oots.html" to the Episode Guide..
00:34:14 <OoS> oos <> order of sticks
00:34:16 <OoS> oos == origin of storms :-)
00:34:24 <Sgeo_> In my mind, the worst thing was the commenters who wanted to see the next episode.. apparently unaware of the real site
00:35:08 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection).
00:35:13 <ehird> Chaos (00:06:10) :
00:35:13 <Sgeo_> And apparently Rich Burlew's name is is Rich Burlews
00:35:14 <ehird> theorderofstick (08:51:41) :
00:35:16 <ehird> Got pemission of Rich
00:35:20 <ehird> This, on the other hand, is obviously a lie.
00:35:41 <OoS> What's happening with BF Joust?
00:35:55 <ais523> Goethe, the person in charge, ended the round and has now gone on a month-long break
00:36:00 <ais523> and nobody else can restart it without eir help
00:36:09 <ehird> AnMaster: impomatic.
00:36:11 <ais523> AnMaster: OoS = impomatic
00:36:22 <ehird> A person. A being. Someone on IRC.
00:36:32 <Sgeo_> There is LITERALLY no point to theorderofsticks
00:36:33 <ehird> Someone probably interested in esolangs; what more do you want?
00:36:36 <ehird> Credit card number?
00:36:46 <ehird> Sgeo_: I do my fair share of pointless things.
00:37:02 <Sgeo_> ehird, but blatantly illegal pointless things?
00:37:13 <AnMaster> Sgeo_, I tried to read it, I gave up
00:37:17 <ehird> Sgeo_: It is probably not illegal.
00:37:24 <ehird> Sgeo_: The author credit is there and links to the original site too.
00:37:30 <oklopol> ehird: well, i know impomatic well enough to want to know who's him and who's not
00:37:40 <ehird> Sgeo_: Even if it is illegal - so what? Nobody is being hurt.
00:38:07 <zzo38> Ask me about my D&D character(s) and the other PCs and NPCs in our party if you want to. And then compare to other version of D&D rulesets if you want to
00:38:22 <oklopol> ehird: then again AnMaster probably doesn't, so kind of a useless comment on my part.
00:38:35 <oklopol> ehird: this here is also a useless comment.
00:38:44 <ehird> oklopol: USELOSSITY
00:39:55 <oklopol> so who here has filmed a movie
00:40:20 <zzo38> I have filmed a movie once, it was called "AAA Candid Camera" and it didn't have to do much with Candid Camera
00:40:40 <zzo38> I have the DVD in my drawer
00:41:09 <OoS> Even the BF Joust test hill is no longer online :-(
00:41:19 <zzo38> The DVD even says "all region" and "*UOP-FREE*" on the label
00:41:36 <OoS> Used to be here - http://faculty.washington.edu/kerim/nomic/bf/
00:41:39 <zzo38> Let me check the length of the movie
00:42:07 <ais523> I'm getting impatient, I may start a new version myself soon
00:42:18 <ais523> maybe I'll code a test hill in INTERCAL or something tonight
00:42:44 <ais523> time to go home anyway
00:42:50 -!- ais523 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
00:43:11 <zzo38> The movie I made is approx. one hour long
00:43:32 <oklopol> zzo38: oh, then i want to see it.
00:44:25 <zzo38> oklopol: Let's see whether you can see it. If I can do it somehow to make you able to see it. Should I post the DVD ISO file or something like that
00:45:04 <oklopol> well a direct download of avi is most preferable for me ofc.
00:45:32 <oklopol> but i can do with the iso too prolly
00:45:46 <oklopol> although i'm a bit afraid of things that complicated here in linuxville
00:45:50 <zzo38> So far, you can at least see the label and list of chapters, at http://zzo38computer.cjb.net/dvdmenus/ but I cannot post the movie just yet (maybe later I can?)
00:45:56 <ehird> oklopol: burning an iso = double click, select drive
00:46:17 <oklopol> ehird: heh, well okay that does sound kinda easy
00:46:26 <oklopol> but i'm not sure this oldie has a dvd drive actually
00:48:51 <zzo38> It is a comedy movie
00:48:56 <oklopol> zzo38: if that happens, do tell; also sorry about the genuine interest, i'm a weird dude.
00:49:43 -!- impomatic has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
00:49:59 <zzo38> Should I post on your esolang wiki user-page if the movie is posted on internet?
00:50:33 <oklopol> i mostly use this thing here for communication
00:51:18 <zzo38> If I posted it on IRC, if you happened to be not on, would you still read the logs? (Of course if you are current on IRC, that would be better)
00:51:41 <oklopol> zzo38: i have a phase in life where i don't read logs.
00:53:22 <zzo38> The movie has hardly been edited actually. First I recorded from video camera directly to VHS, and then edit it on computer (the only thing actually edited was some parts removed and some text added to the screen for some parts of the movie), and then put on DVD
00:53:37 <zzo38> So, you would know, I wasn't very good at it at the time
00:54:09 <zzo38> But I still like the way the movie turned out. Nothing worth selling for money, but for stuff you don't have to pay, it is a good movie in my opinion
00:54:41 <oklopol> i'm more interesting in content than in quality
00:55:28 <zzo38> The content isn't something you would ask money for, but other than that it is good
00:56:23 <zzo38> All the mistakes we made while filming (except for blank parts) have been kept in and not deleted
01:01:20 <zzo38> One scene consists entirely of a phone on speakerphone
01:01:40 <zzo38> One scene consists of a ZZT game
01:01:47 <zzo38> A few scenes consist of pokemon battles
01:01:48 * kerlo goes to theorderofsticks.wordpress.com and gets slightly angry
01:02:13 <ehird> yeesh, apparently people who like order of the stick are illogical
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01:07:30 <GregorR> A bi-racial couple on an eHarmony commercial!
01:07:50 <GregorR> Every other couple they've shown have not only been the same race, but male/female clones of each other.
01:10:20 <kerlo> Is there an easy way for me to send you money, should I ever want to do so?
01:11:48 <zzo38> In one scene the computer has too much lego on it. But that is because the person complaining put the legos there
01:13:37 <kerlo> GregorR: also, may I unintentionally distribute your Neural Color Matcher?
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01:13:59 <zzo38> Charizard keeps breaking the computer!
01:14:09 <zzo38> What would *you* do if Charizard kept breaking your computer?
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01:14:22 <oklopol> i don't believe in charizards
01:14:24 <GregorR> kerlo: Paypal AKAQuinn@hotmail.com , I'd prefer hotlinks but distribution is fine.
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01:14:37 <zzo38> Even if the problem was easy to fix and took only a few seconds?
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01:15:02 <oklopol> zzo38: i still wouldn't believe in them
01:15:40 <zzo38> You don't have to believe in Charizards. What would you do if it happened anyways?
01:16:09 <oklopol> i don't plan for stuff that has 0 probability of happening
01:16:26 <oklopol> but umm i guess i have the capability to do so now.
01:16:34 <oklopol> i would probably do nothing.
01:16:43 <zzo38> Assume it happened anyways because you are a character in a movie where such things can happen
01:17:23 <oklopol> i would buy a computer so bright light couldn't escape its surface
01:18:10 <oklopol> ...and you know it couldn't break it maybe
01:19:00 <oklopol> well. should probably go to sleep, i practically am already
01:19:22 <zzo38> Guess what was the problem with the computer in the movie that Charizard broke, I will tell you if you are correct or incorrect
01:20:08 <zzo38> No. It didn't overheat
01:20:13 <zzo38> It was a laptop computer
01:20:24 <zzo38> Charizard slammed the lid closed
01:20:31 <zzo38> It was easy to fix, just open the computer again
01:20:41 <zzo38> The trainer didn't understand computer and thought the computer was broken
01:21:32 <oklopol> right; well then i would prevent the closing of the lid with a small object
01:21:43 <zzo38> The movie makes about as much sense as Monty Python
01:21:47 <oklopol> and you know give C a spanking
01:22:41 <GregorR> "You've been a naughty programming language!"
01:23:15 <oklopol> :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD
01:23:33 <oklopol> i should probably give you some money too
01:25:16 <kerlo> Wait, have I started a giving-GregorR-money fad?
01:26:29 <zzo38> GregorR: What are you selling?
01:27:04 <GregorR> zzo38: YE CAN NEVERR TEK MAH FREEDOM (but you can buy some!)
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01:27:44 <GregorR> Apparently he didn't have enough money to buy some freedom *shrugs*
01:29:26 <oklopol> i hear his movies aren't doing that well, this is just hearsay, but apparently his last movie made zero profit
01:30:39 <GregorR> He shot himself in the foot with The Wurve of The Jebus
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01:34:42 <GregorR> Oh no, a moon of Mars has somehow fallen to Earth!
01:35:40 <deimos706> is this chat about esoteric and the occult and things
01:36:41 <oklopol> did someone explain this new phenomenon already?
01:36:49 <oklopol> deimos706: nope, not really, no.
01:36:56 <GregorR> "Not really"? Not even slightly.
01:37:19 <oklopol> GregorR: you're just not looking deep enough i thinks.
01:37:47 <GregorR> This channel pertains to esoteric programming languages and models of computation, you'll find that FreeNode is predominantly geared towards computer-related stuff.
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01:39:51 <GregorR> If our /topic had any topic in it, he wouldn't have asked ;)
01:40:45 <oklopol> ehird: i assume you're most likely to be able to explain why these people keep popping up here, i don't think that's always happened this frequently
01:40:53 <oklopol> and sorry if i should already know.
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01:44:38 <GregorR> Incidentally, is anybody surprised that (s)he was in Alabama? :P
01:44:55 <Sgeo_> http://cdimages.ubuntu.com/non-ports/non-ports/non-ports/non-ports/non-ports/non-ports/non-ports/non-ports/non-ports/non-ports/non-ports/non-ports/non-ports/non-ports/non-ports/non-ports/non-ports/non-ports/non-ports/non-ports/non-ports/non-ports/non-ports/non-ports/non-ports/non-ports/non-ports/non-ports/non-ports/non-ports/non-ports/non-ports/non-ports/non-ports/non-ports/non-ports/non-ports/non-ports/non-ports/
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01:48:50 <GregorR> I'm thinking about reviving SPS>
01:48:59 <GregorR> I wonder if anybody would consider it useful ...
01:51:38 <Sgeo_> Any good Mezzacotta lately?
01:52:27 <GregorR> Sgeo_: http://www.nongnu.org/sps/
01:53:12 <Sgeo_> I'm.. not sure I understand'
01:54:34 <GregorR> With SPS, /usr is sort of a dynamic union filesystem.
01:54:44 <GregorR> And you specify what packages, and what versions of them, you want to see.
01:55:02 <Sgeo_> How is this different from regular apt?
01:55:18 <GregorR> Every user, and in fact every process, can have their own environment.
01:55:54 <GregorR> So for example, if you have a program that needs GCC 3 to compile, rather than installing both and then figuring out how to convince it to use 'gcc-3.4' instead of 'gcc', you type sps with 'gcc < 4:4' -- make
01:56:10 <comex> I was imagining something like that
01:56:21 <comex> I mean, the recent security protections on windows are just cat and mouse
01:56:47 <comex> the solution is sandboxing
01:57:10 <Sgeo_> GregorR, make it universal!
01:57:15 <comex> not that SPS is a sandbox
01:57:27 <comex> but you would have to use a filesystem like that
01:57:37 <comex> however, mounting /usr with fuse sounds slow to me :/
01:57:54 <Sgeo_> GregorR, get it in Debian and get application authors using it
01:58:07 <comex> also, written in D?
01:58:37 <GregorR> comex: The former point is why I stopped working on it; it is slow :(. I'm rewriting it in C, recent shakeups in the D community have made me shy away a bit more.
02:00:53 <Sgeo_> ehird, did you read the latest Fine Structure?
02:00:59 <Sgeo_> Be sure to read Sam's comments
02:01:32 <comex> though I dunno, I wouldn't mind a language that compiles directly to machine code but implements foreach
02:03:38 <GregorR> comex: D is a nice language, I still like it as a language, it's just in an ... unfortunate state right now.
02:05:28 <comex> gregorR: is a C-like D program as fast as a C program?
02:07:30 <GregorR> comex: Modulo garbage collection, yes.
02:07:43 <GregorR> comex: D is on http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/ btw.
02:08:54 <comex> GregorR: clicked on a random link
02:08:55 <comex> http://shootout.alioth.debian.org/u32q/benchmark.php?test=fannkuch&lang=all
02:09:08 <comex> d is nowhere there
02:09:41 <Ilari> If one has sufficient privs, fork with new namespace and overlay /usr with something suitable? :-)
02:10:25 <GregorR> Ilari: That would require a huge pile of symlink farms.
02:10:35 <GregorR> Ilari: Which isn't necessarily an impossibility, but bleh.
02:10:43 <Ilari> GregorR: Or using Fuse?
02:14:06 <Ilari> GregorR: Well, at least it wouldn't require rest of the system to be using Fuse for /usr...
02:49:37 <GregorR> Why IS Fuse so slow? Is it just the sheer number of context switches, or ...?
03:38:43 <Ilari> GregorR: Linux VFS is quite fast. So two context swaps and presumably additional VFS call really add up... And there might be additional factors adding even more slowness...
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04:05:08 <comex> just write a kernel driver
04:05:15 <comex> or figure out why fuse is slow
04:05:33 <comex> so ntfs-3g isn't so suck
04:06:05 <comex> though is that true?
04:06:06 <comex> http://www.ntfs-3g.org/performance.html
04:07:03 <comex> purports to be comparable to other FS even without the optimizations in the shitty commercial version
04:28:21 <GregorR> cunionfs.c:280: error: unknown field ‘readdir’ specified in initializer
04:28:43 <GregorR> This is filling a fuse_operations
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12:44:04 * AnMaster had his client restart several times after each other today, thus no scrollbacl
12:44:22 <AnMaster> "* Now talking on #esoteric * BeholdMyGlory (n=BeholdMy@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se) has joined #esoteric"
12:44:29 <AnMaster> well with newline there of course
12:45:12 <AnMaster> oklopol, what is the problem he has
12:46:17 <oklopol> i *may* just be hungry enough to make me some food
12:46:33 <oklopol> that'd be cool, food is awesome
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13:00:17 <nooga> idk how to parse function application in new SADOL, because i made functions forst class citizens... eg. :f3 {1}f12{/1} :f~2+#_0#_1 {2}f12{/2}
13:00:55 <nooga> in 1st case f12 yields 312 and in the 2nd case f eats 1 and 2
13:01:39 <nooga> so parser must know what is function and when, in parse time
13:01:52 <nooga> and it must know how much arguments function takes
13:02:17 <nooga> yea, but i'm writing a compiler :D
13:02:42 <oklopol> iirc my shortest quicksort version already used functions as if they were forst-class citizens
13:03:27 <oklopol> anyway the behavior was so random i couldn't get it finished
13:07:51 <nooga> also i tried to enable multichar ids
13:08:51 <nooga> but then parser would be quite twisted
13:08:56 <oklopol> glass uses parens around multichar ids
13:11:55 <nooga> i planned to use spaces
13:12:19 <nooga> but by definition SADOL pisses on whitespace
13:17:40 <nooga> it's already quite fast
13:18:49 <nooga> next step is to add macros and enable calling external functions
13:18:56 <nooga> opengl in SADOL? :D
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13:39:46 <nooga> )"7glBegin$1"8GL_LINES
13:48:24 <nooga> {#call glBegin GL_LINES}
13:49:09 <oklopol> what a terrible obfuscation facility!
13:50:11 <nooga> and currying is for wimps
13:50:23 <oklopol> err actually i guess facility works, my english deteriorates by the day
13:50:56 <oklopol> or then i'm just more paranoid about correctness.
13:52:24 <oklopol> well. need to go eat a burger and you know read algebra.
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14:21:02 <nooga> http://www.weebls-stuff.com/toons/Brazil/
14:30:21 <nooga> oklopol: reindeer burger?
14:51:09 <comex> I wish there was a sort of . operator in bash
15:09:43 <nooga> which would do what?
15:21:19 <comex> (wget . inkscape) http://url/something.svg
15:21:29 <comex> but that would require some intelligence :p
15:21:30 <comex> and yes it's backwards
15:28:17 <nooga> probably it can be done
15:28:53 <nooga> comp (wget . inkscape) htpp://blah
15:29:02 <nooga> but you must write comp ;p
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16:00:20 <ehird> 01:00 Sgeo_: ehird, did you read the latest Fine Structure?
16:00:23 <ehird> no i don't read fs
16:00:27 <ehird> 00:35 deimos706: hello
16:00:27 <ehird> 00:35 deimos706: is this chat about esoteric and the occult and things
16:00:48 <ehird> GregorR: SPS is too advanced. either stick with package managers or get the real solution, a capability based OS
16:01:13 <ehird> also: union mounting /usr sounds funny whereby funny I mean SHIT SLOW
16:01:49 <Judofyr> ta-da! bin/forter works :-)
16:04:36 <Judofyr> it wasn't really that hard…
16:05:15 <Judofyr> but Ruby isn't really the best language for parsing
16:05:41 <ehird> parsing in general
16:05:43 <ehird> it could be so much simpler
16:06:05 <Judofyr> why haven't anyone (like you :P) done something about it?
16:06:17 <ehird> cuz it's hard to make it simpler :)
16:06:47 <ehird> Judofyr: but -- Haskell's Parsec and our Redivider: http://esolangs.org/wiki/Redivider are steps in the right direction
16:07:03 <ehird> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Redivider/Underload_Interpreter
16:07:08 <ehird> admittedly that runs as well as parses
16:07:10 <ehird> but it's a good example
16:08:01 <Judofyr> I guess Haskell is something I should learn?
16:08:10 <ehird> Redivider is basically parsec as a regexp-tarpit with syntax :-)
16:08:16 <ehird> Judofyr: If you ask me, absolutely
16:08:25 <ehird> It's probably my favourite language
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16:20:22 <Judofyr> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Forte
16:20:56 <oerjan> <oklopol> that'd be cool, food is awesome
16:21:12 <oerjan> well, it beats being angry because you're hungry *munch*
16:22:03 <Judofyr> btw, I've been playing with a little language called Regland (maybe I've mentioned it before)
16:22:21 <Judofyr> it's a "self-parsing" language
16:22:32 <oerjan> i assume it's a regular duck language
16:22:35 <Judofyr> instead of variables, you define syntax
16:23:27 <Judofyr> /(\d+)/ @ %ruby { return integer }
16:23:54 <Judofyr> integers will be implemented in itself
16:25:05 <Judofyr> it will have built-in blocks/lambda/function
16:25:46 <Judofyr> it's basically implemented as a loop which matches regex'es
16:26:38 <nooga> is there a way to define syntax for defining syntax ?
16:26:38 <Judofyr> I'm bootstrapping it with the default syntax
16:27:17 <nooga> and then create potentially infinite abstraction levels?
16:27:22 <Judofyr> there are two ways to define syntax, using = and using @
16:27:28 <Judofyr> = simply sets it to the object
16:27:42 <Judofyr> so /s/ = { 123 }; then s will return a block
16:28:13 <Judofyr> @ will evaluate the given block
16:28:16 <nooga> /sex/ = 666 will become /123ex/ = 666
16:28:26 <Judofyr> so /s/ @ { 123 }; s will return 123
16:29:35 <Judofyr> /thing/ is more like a string
16:30:41 <Judofyr> it's also prototype-based language
16:31:09 <Judofyr> so /thing/ is an object whose parent is Matcher (whose parent is Object)
16:31:36 <Judofyr> I could for instance do: Matcher /something/ = 123
16:31:37 <nooga> how about defining way of expressing constants
16:31:54 <Judofyr> then '/something/ something' returns 123
16:32:13 <nooga> if i'd like to have: ababc => 12123
16:33:05 <Judofyr> then you could define a syntax: /ababc/ = 12123
16:33:17 <Judofyr> everytime Regland sees "ababc" it will return 12123
16:33:26 <nooga> and: ababc .-._.- ba => 12123 + 21
16:34:05 <nooga> that's a bit uncool
16:34:53 <Judofyr> Regland won't match unless there's a non-alpha right after the match, or the last char in the match
16:35:17 <Judofyr> so "hell" will never match "hello"
16:36:04 <Judofyr> but "hell o" might (then it will match the "hell" part and continue parsing)
16:37:36 <Judofyr> but in your example, you could /[abc]+/ @ { build int from match }
16:38:02 <ehird> Judofyr: sounds like it could be interesting.
16:38:26 <Judofyr> together with Integer /\.-\._\.-/ = (Integer +)
16:39:31 <Judofyr> I'm going to write the core in a Ruby DSL, then the rest will be implemented in Regland (together with %ruby{}-blocks)
16:40:28 <ehird> what is it with rubyists and dsls
16:41:27 <Judofyr> let's me focus on the definition, not the objects behind
16:41:59 <Judofyr> wraps Regland's objects together with Ruby's classes
16:42:24 <Judofyr> anyway. time for dinner :-)
16:46:37 <Slereah_> http://esolangs.org/wiki/Albions
16:49:36 <ehird> "NOTICE: The data below is posted by a program which is part of the Graffiti research project from Brown University. We will remove the data from your site once the experiment is finished. If you want to delete this, please do so as you would delete a spam page. For more information, please visit http://graffiti.cs.brown.edu/info/. "
16:49:45 <ehird> It's trying to share files via mediawiki.
16:49:51 <ehird> Someone report them to... something.
16:51:13 <ehird> http://www.cs.brown.edu/~pavlo/ No email. wonderful
16:51:27 <ehird> ah, it's pavlo@cs.brown.edu
16:51:35 <ehird> Time to write a complaint.
16:53:29 <Slereah_> SICP has arrived on the French textboard D:
16:53:56 * ehird sends angry email.
16:54:14 <oerjan> what the heck they did it in _two_ articles
16:54:30 <ehird> oerjan: one of them got subtly changed by zzo38
16:54:46 <oerjan> well they're probably going to get sued...
16:54:53 <ehird> oerjan: their site laughs it off.
16:55:07 <Slereah_> But I don't think people will take it
16:55:11 <ehird> Shit-for-brains immature retards. Too dangerous to be using a computer.
16:55:22 <Slereah_> It takes up space on them wikis
16:55:28 <oerjan> they're american. all it takes is for them to hit a corporate american wiki, sure?
16:55:40 <oerjan> admittedly those may not be few
16:55:55 <oerjan> well, something affiliated with a corporation
16:56:14 <ehird> Hope they hit wikipedia
16:56:18 <Slereah_> Are there any that are widely available?
16:56:29 <ehird> But yeah, bastards.
16:57:04 <oerjan> they did it even _after_ a reviewer pointed out what a bad idea it was, iirc
16:57:27 <ehird> look at their site
16:57:34 <oerjan> heck, they might end up expelled for it
16:57:35 <ehird> two out of 4 entries are about being banned/rejected
16:57:44 <ehird> (and one of the others is about submitting the one that was rejected)
16:57:54 <ehird> oerjan: i dunno - they got a subdomain
16:57:57 <oerjan> unless they're professors with tuition, hm...
16:58:10 <ehird> http://www.cs.brown.edu/~pavlo/
16:58:11 <ehird> http://www.cs.brown.edu/~ning/
16:58:40 <ehird> my opinion of that uni just went down
16:58:42 <oerjan> ehird: the link they give on the wiki points back to brown.edu
16:58:57 <ehird> graffiti.cs.brown.edu
16:59:00 <ehird> so they got a subdomain approved for it
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17:04:10 <oerjan> hm, "We are only planning to store one piece of data on each unique MediaWiki site."
17:04:28 <oerjan> they probably hit both esolangs.org and voxelperfect.net, then
17:05:57 <Slereah_> Plus, if they do that, they won't be able to do shit
17:06:13 <Slereah_> A movie would probably take up the space of every damn wiki
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17:06:44 <ehird> also, data changing, reversion ...
17:06:55 <ehird> it's a terrible idea even if it did work, but it doesn't.
17:12:21 <ehird> http://www.haskell.org/haskellwiki/Wadler%27s_Law
17:16:33 <ehird> http://dis.4chan.org/read/prog/1239439150/18
17:19:14 <oerjan> they cheated on lexical comments!
17:20:08 <oerjan> you cannot put a string containing "-}" inside {- -} comments, for example
17:20:19 <oerjan> so you cannot escape all code that way :)
17:20:33 <ehird> oerjan: just use cpp! duh!
17:21:02 <oerjan> that's not an official part of haskell though
17:22:41 <nooga> Judofyr: another question
17:22:48 <nooga> {} blocks will be written in?
17:23:00 <ehird> the language I assum
17:23:23 <Judofyr> but you can use %ruby{} to run Ruby
17:24:07 <Judofyr> I think however that I have to make them indent-based
17:24:24 <Judofyr> how else am I going to parse them?
17:24:39 <ehird> i think this language lacks a certain sense of direction
17:25:25 <nooga> how arithmetics look in pure Regland?
17:25:52 <oerjan> ehird: it probably points into the fifth dimension
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17:26:35 <Judofyr> nooga: the purest way is: 1 +(2), since + is a block
17:27:28 <Judofyr> but you can also turn + into a syntax which fetches the next token
17:27:46 <Judofyr> Integers won't be defined in the core-language anyway
17:29:54 <Judofyr> I also plan on making it possible to remove all the current regex'es and define your own
17:30:40 <Judofyr> so you can write "I WANT BRAINFUCK" and suddenly all the regex'es matches Brainfuck
17:31:02 <Judofyr> "KTHXBYE" = back in Regland again
17:31:44 <ehird> this is essentially Metalogic-- :-
17:32:40 <ehird> The tentative name for my in-head language that is based entirely around semantics arising out of redefining the infinite layers of the language being the prorgam.
17:32:56 <ehird> "Metalogic--" where -- is the C sense.
17:34:55 <nooga> ehird: start implementing then
17:38:48 <ehird> it's been simmering for years
17:38:51 <ehird> it's still perfecting itself
17:40:09 <Judofyr> ehird: still, when you're going to implement it, you'll discover things you haven't thought of and maybe need to rethink some parts
17:40:42 <ehird> It's incredibly simple but on the other hand infinite levels of abstraction are kind of hard to implement with non-infinitely-abstracted things.
17:47:01 <Deewiant> Argh, I just realized that I'm essentially doing an unbounded and variable number of function calls whilst expecting the stack pointer to not move
17:47:21 <nooga> i imagine such language as a language, let's say L0, which allows you to program and define language L1 that is reducable to L0 statements and allows to do exactly same things as L0, and thus Ln+1 is reducable to Ln, so programs written in every Ln where n>0 will be reduced to runnable L0 program
17:47:44 <ehird> nooga: oh, it's far more intricate than that
17:47:53 <ehird> it solves the inelegance of multiple levels by turning it up to infinity
17:48:02 <Deewiant> This is a bit unfortunate, I'll need a global
17:48:43 <ehird> nooga: if it makes sense, you are infinitely intelligent.
17:48:47 <ehird> so don't feel too bad.
17:48:53 <Deewiant> Hmm, actually I could put stuff in the XMM registers
17:49:25 <Deewiant> It'll probably use more code size but I'd rather avoid the global on principle
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17:52:12 <nooga> in L0: + prints "howdy", ?xy says that y will be translated to x and then executed as L0, +?+-??! -!-*!!E *E*xEEX xXx.XX, and so on
17:52:53 <nooga> in the most simple form
17:53:15 <ehird> simple and inelegant is a bad combination
17:53:29 <nooga> howdy howdy howdy howdy
17:53:35 <oerjan> ehird: if he's infinitely intelligent, shouldn't he be wandering over to yudkowsky to help out?
17:54:13 <ehird> implying he didn't understand
17:54:17 <ehird> and thus was finitely intelligent
17:55:15 <oerjan> i thought the "if it makes sense" was just an empty phrase
17:55:20 <nooga> i'm a walking proof that some people are stupid
17:56:19 <oerjan> what a shame, here we could have solved the Friendly AI problem with a Friendly BI
17:56:31 -!- neldoreth|lp has joined.
17:56:45 -!- neldoreth|lp has quit (Client Quit).
17:57:32 <ehird> I don't think the singularity implies infinite intelligence; I'm not sure the concept even makes sense
17:58:09 <nooga> i doub that intelligence is measurable
17:58:25 <ehird> Most things are measurable.
17:58:29 <oerjan> there would probably be a tower of infinities in theory there too
17:58:44 <ehird> Not measurable to any intelligable degree by us, maybe
17:58:52 <oerjan> for banana scheme and such
18:00:22 <ehird> "It's 2040 and nerds in old-folks homes are wandering around, scratching their heads, and asking plaintively, 'But ... but, where's the Singularity?'"
18:03:07 <nooga> i've read something by VV
18:03:24 <ehird> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vernor_Vinge#Novels
18:03:33 <nooga> Fire Upon the Deep
18:03:44 <ehird> That's around the time he described the singularity.
18:05:07 * oerjan wonders. if the hard problems of AI are not logic but things that other animals can do, does that mean e.g. a chimpanzee is in some sense 99% as intelligent as a human?
18:05:31 <ehird> oerjan: I'm not sure the hypothetical holds.
18:05:40 <ehird> Seems a bit arbitrary
18:05:54 <oerjan> ehird: i read something like that somewhere
18:06:06 <oerjan> basically computers easily do logic games
18:06:06 <ehird> Well, I'm not sure 99%.
18:06:09 <ehird> 99% seems a bit much.
18:06:16 <ehird> chimps are certainly intelligent, though.
18:06:27 <oerjan> but it's very hard to do things like vision
18:06:55 <ehird> oerjan: doing 100% precise logic puzzles isn't really much of a part of intelligence
18:07:18 <oerjan> well we know that _now_
18:07:28 <oerjan> oh right, there is also common sense
18:07:42 <oerjan> which includes many things only humans have
18:07:47 <ehird> and fuzzy reasoning
18:07:49 <ehird> and, to a degree, emotions
18:07:52 <oerjan> so scratch at least some of that
18:07:59 <ehird> without emotions we probably wouldn't last very long
18:08:18 <ehird> oerjan: "common sense" is hideously vague, really
18:08:22 <ehird> it's just learned behaviour imo
18:08:23 <GregorR> I argue that the fundamental difference between humans and other great apes is not that we're wildly more intelligent (although we certainly are), but that we have the specific intelligence of being able to communicate abstract ideas. Without this, very clever creatures can accomplish very little.
18:08:39 <ehird> GregorR: That seems logical.
18:11:40 <GregorR> Apparently my argument was SO COMPELLING that everybody's done arguing :P
18:12:02 <oerjan> http://www-rohan.sdsu.edu/faculty/vinge/longnow/
18:12:35 <GregorR> <ehird> and, to a degree, emotions // I doubt highly that there are any emotions we have that chimpanzees don't.
18:12:39 <oerjan> (slides to a talk by vinge with that quote)
18:12:46 <ehird> I never said anything else, GregorR
18:12:55 <ehird> oerjan: it was in an article on kurzweilai thingy
18:13:12 <ehird> http://www.kurzweilai.net/articles/art0696.html?m=1
18:13:23 <ehird> http://www.kurzweilai.net/articles/art0696.html?printable=1
18:13:31 <ehird> it's the same hting
18:13:38 <ehird> but mine has images
18:15:13 <oerjan> i thought you had just picked it off a signature or something :)
18:15:43 -!- ehird has set topic: Everything but esoteric programming languages. Trading card games, the singularity, memes, but NO. ESOLANGS. No exceptions. http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
18:16:01 <oerjan> no more cheerful topic eh?
18:16:54 <oerjan> should we have memes? isn't that more a 4chan thing
18:17:06 <ehird> Whether we should is irrelevant.
18:18:07 <GregorR> So, how 'bout that kipple.
18:18:44 <GregorR> I, uh, I said "How 'bout some kibble"!
18:20:20 <oerjan> what about kippers in kibble?
18:24:00 <ehird> what about GREAT HUGE BUTTS.
18:25:24 <oerjan> no thanks, i'm not that hungry
18:39:11 * ehird has a .h file with a DEC copyright on his system
18:39:26 <ehird> Copyright 1987 by Digital Equipment Corporation, Maynard, Massachusetts
18:39:26 <ehird> All Rights Reserved
18:43:04 <GregorR> I find that entirely unsurprising.
18:44:15 <GregorR> Guess waht? I have files copyright Linus Torvalds!
18:45:57 <nooga> taht wuz sooo epic
18:46:56 <GregorR> I wonder if it would be worth the headache for my /usr FUSE mount to present everything as symlinks instead of files.
18:47:17 <GregorR> The only caveat is that programs that follow their own symlinks to look for other files may end up in the wrong place.
18:47:39 <GregorR> Programs with compiled-in prefixes or simple PATH lookups would be fine.
18:47:42 <ehird> SPS sux like I said :-D
18:48:09 <GregorR> Your argument is solely on the speed of FUSE-mounting /usr, and that can be fixed by simply creating a kernel module to do the same.
18:48:21 <GregorR> The only problem is that "simply", isn't.
18:48:28 <ehird> I critiqued the idea.
18:48:40 <GregorR> Then I have the wrong argument!
18:48:47 <ehird> GregorR: I'll summarize
18:48:48 <ehird> since I wasn't clear
18:48:55 <ehird> a proper, system-wide dependency system is the right way forward
18:49:00 <ehird> ofc, you can't really do that on top of an existing os
18:49:25 <GregorR> Right. There is a prerequisite that this be on top of an existing OS though.
18:49:32 <GregorR> If it isn't, then you can go crazy of course.
18:49:38 <GregorR> But I'd like this to be incremental.
18:49:41 <ehird> GregorR: I've never really had a need...
18:49:44 <ehird> why can't you just do
18:49:50 <GregorR> Individuals should never have a need.
18:49:58 <GregorR> It's only useful for things like university systems.
18:50:03 <ehird> ln -s gcc-3.2 ~/tmp/gcc; PATH=~/tmp/gcc:$PATH program
18:50:57 <GregorR> nooga: http://www.nongnu.org/sps/
18:50:58 <GregorR> Sounds simple enough, until you start adding packages with complicated dependencies, shared object files, ...
18:51:31 <ehird> GregorR: I propose suicide.
18:51:43 <ehird> WOW, Eclipse is the slowest thing evar
18:52:21 <ehird> it takes like five seconds to open a file WTF
18:52:55 <ehird> GregorR: if it's a university system
18:52:58 <ehird> htf did you get root to mount /sur
18:53:13 <GregorR> ehird: An admin would have to set things up initially in any case.
18:53:28 <GregorR> ehird: This is supposed to be something that admins provide to users, not that users provide to themselves.
18:53:52 <ehird> this is sounding less and less useful
18:54:09 <GregorR> I can only guess that you were imaging it as something that it's not intended to be *shrugs*
18:55:16 <GregorR> Here's the fundamental reason for its existence: You're an admin, you manage a bunch of systems, and get a quadrillion package requests per $PERIOD_OF_TIME. These packages are sometimes in conflict, often people need specific versions, and generally it's a PITA. SO, you use SPS on /usr, and install whatever people want (within reason), allowing them to pick and choose what they see.
18:55:35 <ehird> GregorR: You mean it's a hideously complex ~/local/bin
18:56:10 <GregorR> A) It's not actually that complex, B) It's substantially more powerful and general.
18:56:26 <GregorR> (Oh, I forgot to mention, the admin doesn't necessarily have to install the packages, the user could simply download a deb and install it into their own cache)
19:05:48 <ehird> Judofyr: does your forte handle the whitespace?
19:05:54 <ehird> 1 0PR IN T"Hello, world!"
19:06:19 <Judofyr> I have a little method which cleans up
19:06:37 <ehird> Judofyr: link to your interp?
19:06:43 <Judofyr> http://github.com/judofyr/forter
19:07:04 <Judofyr> http://github.com/judofyr/forter/blob/69cf67cec0530cdc505ed7dd6cde564fdf2998b4/lib/forter.rb
19:07:16 <ehird> heh, ais523 will get angry at the githubness
19:07:30 <ehird> (he refuses to use it because of the no-ad-blocking clause in the ToS)
19:07:36 <Judofyr> http://github.com/judofyr/forter/blob/69cf67cec0530cdc505ed7dd6cde564fdf2998b4/lib/grammar.tt
19:09:29 <GregorR> "Quality is enterprise ' life, Innovation is enterprise ' soul"
19:09:55 <ehird> Judofyr: why on earth did you have to do __magic__ to get something this simple working?
19:10:00 <ehird> that's something I often encountered with ruby
19:10:15 <Judofyr> talking about SimpleDelegator?
19:10:19 <ehird> http://github.com/judofyr/forter/blob/69cf67cec0530cdc505ed7dd6cde564fdf2998b4/lib/forter.rb#L41
19:11:19 <ehird> Judofyr: I just have a map of {int=>int}...
19:11:38 <ehird> Judofyr: does yours eliminate steps?
19:12:07 <ehird> otherwise you get slowdowns as time goes on
19:12:21 <Judofyr> I've implemented it in Ruby…
19:12:27 <Judofyr> do you think I care about speed?
19:13:23 <ehird> unspeakably wrong.
19:13:46 <ehird> speed is optimizing the implementation; efficiency is not having every program crawl to a halt really quickly
19:14:00 <ehird> removing cycles is three line of code
19:14:34 <ehird> err, see my explanation above.
19:14:37 <ehird> speed is not efficiency
19:17:39 <Judofyr> I haven't so many choices in Ruby
19:18:03 <ehird> that's why all the real rubyists use haskell</troll troll troll troll>
19:18:24 <Judofyr> Parsing/compiling/interpreting isn't Ruby's job
19:18:43 <ehird> Judofyr: nor is text processing
19:18:44 <nooga> RDParser + severap maps
19:18:46 <ehird> nor is running anything efficiently
19:18:48 <nooga> and compiler ready ;d
19:18:53 <ehird> hmm what can it do again?
19:18:56 <ehird> oh yeah run a blog
19:19:04 <ehird> oh, or an IRC bot!
19:19:56 <nooga> i'm writing SADOLv3 compiler in ruby and then i'll bootstrap it
19:20:31 <ehird> parsecccccccccccccccccc
19:21:59 <ehird> wow, GregorR uses haskell
19:22:04 <ehird> wouldn't have guessed
19:22:34 <ehird> dunno, you seemed more the D type.
19:22:53 <ehird> 19:18 Judofyr: Parsing/compiling/interpreting isn't Ruby's job
19:23:30 <ehird> if you'll be pedantic about ... vs …
19:23:43 <oerjan> wait, are you unicoding bastards at it again
19:24:02 <GregorR> WE SPEAK ENGLISH, JESUS' LANGUAGE.
19:24:04 <Judofyr> meh, it's all ' on my keyboard
19:24:45 <ehird> Judofyr: I was pointing out that you're a hypocrite for demanding … but using '
19:24:51 <oerjan> it's a marvel the jews understood him, really
19:25:12 <GregorR> oerjan: What with him having predated the only language he spoke by a thousand years.
19:26:48 <nooga> Perl 6 will be extremely awesome
19:27:05 <ehird> second system syndrome at its finest
19:27:29 <GregorR> Unless by "awesome" you mean "awesome" in the classic vernacular, like "Hitler's awesome power"
19:27:50 -!- ehird has set topic: Hitler's awesome power. http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
19:27:57 <oerjan> actually i think godwin's law says you lose
19:28:00 <ehird> <lilo> Please change the topic.
19:28:15 <GregorR> Well, when ghosts start asserting power, it's time to change the topic.
19:28:16 <ehird> oerjan: it says nothing about lossage
19:28:26 <ehird> <lilo> I AM A JEW IN HEAVEN
19:28:40 <ehird> <lilo> I was killed in the holocaust on a bike in 2006
19:28:57 <ehird> #esoteric: Reality is often incorrect.
19:29:02 -!- GregorR has set topic: Hitler's awesome power: HE SHOT LASER BEAMS FROM HIS EYES http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
19:29:18 <ehird> <lilo> Hitler shot me with a laser beam from his eyes. As a car.
19:29:20 <oerjan> ehird: ok, that's a common variation
19:29:49 <oerjan> GregorR: also, you really raised quirk's exception
19:30:17 <GregorR> Is that that it doesn't count as Godwin's law if you cite Godwin's law?
19:30:36 <oerjan> or rather, if you use it intentionally
19:30:47 -!- GregorR has set topic: oerjan's awesome power: HE SHOOTS LASER BEAMS FROM HIS EYES http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
19:31:25 <oerjan> i can neither confirm nor deny that.
19:31:53 -!- ehird has set topic: oerjan is hitler | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
19:32:07 <GregorR> A real-world version of that would be hilariously unthreatening.
19:32:29 <GregorR> "What's this red dot on my shirt ..." "I'm shooting laser beams from my eyes!" " ... OK?"
19:32:56 <oerjan> stop going around making me look all harmless and fuzzy
19:33:32 <oerjan> well unless you look someone in the eyes, of course
19:33:51 <oerjan> which i think is a violation of international law
19:35:31 <Judofyr> ehird: Real World Haskell is the way to go?
19:35:42 <ehird> Judofyr: Yes, although I like Learn You a Haskell.
19:35:50 <ehird> Judofyr: http://learnyouahaskell.com/.
19:35:55 <ehird> Judofyr: It's very why's (poignant) guide.
19:36:16 <ehird> if you do read learn you I'd do real world haskell after, since it doesn't cover much beyond the language itself
19:36:17 <oerjan> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Protocol_on_Blinding_Laser_Weapons
19:36:33 <Judofyr> ah. much better line-height than RWH!
19:36:47 <oerjan> so you can vaporize people all you want, as long as you don't blind them
19:36:55 <ehird> Judofyr: also, it's right: #haskell is awesome
19:37:11 <ehird> second friendliest irc channel
19:37:14 <ehird> save for #esoteric
19:37:24 <ehird> Judofyr: #ruby-lang is all flamewars and grudges and stuff
19:37:29 <ehird> honestly quite tiring imo.
19:37:41 <Judofyr> "Judofyr: no offense, but your ruby-speak is starting to annoy me and likely others as well"
19:37:58 <ehird> & define "ruby-speak"
19:39:00 <Judofyr> ehird: http://pastie.textmate.org/private/js9hcu8mqsx4xl5vsmn4q
19:39:02 <ehird> Judofyr: also, a tip: rabidly avoid anything calling itself a monad tutorial
19:39:04 -!- GregorR has set topic: Dvorak sux QWERTY RULZ LAWL | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
19:39:34 <ehird> the correct way to understand monads is to just use them without thinking at first (so you can actually write IO-ing programs), learn how haskell works, then you can just look at the definition
19:39:37 <ehird> and it should all come into place
19:39:39 <ehird> that's what i did, at least
19:40:34 <ehird> Judofyr: nothing wrong with that paste -- I bet zenspider said that
19:40:41 <Deewiant> What I did was write something like with State but manually with pairs and 'let', then spent time doing it with State, then stared at the two until I figured it out
19:40:45 <ehird> he seems to have a nack for disliking anything
19:40:56 <ehird> "Monads are like monads"
19:41:02 <Judofyr> ehird: it wasn't him this time, but yeah
19:41:11 <GregorR> I have a knack for disliking spelling "knack" as "nack" :P
19:41:35 <Judofyr> ehird: for one second I almost thought you were elliottcable :P
19:41:46 <Judofyr> for some reason zenspider hates him
19:41:54 <ehird> Judofyr: Ha, I have my own history with elliottcable.
19:41:55 <Judofyr> blocked him from #ruby-lang
19:42:00 <GregorR> Oh, I'm not arguing that "nack" makes marginally more sense as a spelling :P
19:42:16 <Judofyr> heh, ellittcable isn't the most nice/polite person in the world :P
19:42:26 <ehird> elliottcable started a bizarre campaign of trying to annoy me as much as possible :-D
19:42:55 <oerjan> ehird: "this first name is not big enough for the both of us"?
19:43:12 <GregorR> Gracenotes: INTELINGUA MAN
19:43:15 <ehird> It was back in the #ircnomic days. On team UTC-day, all the people who actually played the game. On team UTC-night, everyone who made proposals to permanently break the game for no reason other than laughs.
19:43:18 <ehird> Fight! Fight! Fight!
19:44:25 <Deewiant> Ithkul are a race in Master of Orion 3.
19:44:47 * ehird purchases http://www.amazon.co.uk/dp/B000ETX928/
19:45:05 <Deewiant> Also, my DOBELA interpreter seems to work somewhat.
19:45:45 <ehird> (to install OpenWRT w/ x-wrt on it, of course.)
19:45:58 <ehird> Someone should make a rap in ithkuil
19:46:03 <ehird> It'd be the most literate rap ever since it's so dens
19:46:55 <ehird> ""Translation: As our vehicle leaves the ground and plunges over the edge of the cliff toward the valley floor, I ponder whether it is possible that one might allege I am guilty of an act of moral failure, having failed to maintain a proper course along the roadway. "
19:46:59 <ehird> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/c/c9/Ithkuil_pull_uiqisx.ogg
19:47:03 <ehird> Pull ̀ uíqišx ma’wałg eřyaufënienˉ päţwïç auxë’yaļt xne’wïļta’şui tua kit öllá yaqazmuiv li’yïrzişka’ p’amḿ aìlo’wëčča šu’yehtaş
19:47:12 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection).
19:47:44 -!- tombom_ has joined.
19:47:47 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined.
19:48:57 <Gracenotes> a song in ithkuil (period) would be impressive
19:49:06 <Deewiant> [ˈpʊlːˋ ʊˈɪˊqɪʃx ˈmaʔwaʟɡ ɛʁjɑʊfɤˈnɪɛnˉ ˈpæθwɯç aʊˈxɤʔjaɬt xnɛʔwiɬˈtaʔʂʊɪ tʊa kɪt œlːˈaˊ jaˈqazmʊɪv lɪʔjɯɾˈzɪʂkaʔ p’amːˊ aɪlɔˈwɤtʃːa ʃʊʔˈjɛhtaʂ]
19:49:58 <ehird> Gracenotes: *"GRUNNUR"
19:50:20 <Gracenotes> yes, I know. the GRUNNUR gets too exciting sometimes
19:50:36 <Gracenotes> I can't help but show others the joy of being GRUNNUR'd inside
19:51:35 <Deewiant> I can't pronounce ɤ accurately :-/
19:51:47 <Deewiant> At least not followed by a glottal stop
19:52:32 <ehird> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/e/e5/Ithkuil_sentence.ogg
19:52:35 <ehird> even uglier sounding
19:52:40 <ehird> Romanization: Oumpeá äx’ääļuktëx. Pronunciation: /oum.pɛ.a æ.’kxæ.ɬʊk.tɤx/
19:52:50 <ehird> ompeaa a kethluch tuck
19:53:18 <ehird> Gracenotes: The forced breaking of the meme density?
19:53:40 <Deewiant> The previous one wasn't ugly though, that was beautiful
19:53:51 <Deewiant> This one's a bit scrunchy I admit
19:54:11 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection).
19:54:16 <oerjan> an oompa loompa in a ketchup truck
19:54:24 <Gracenotes> have you broken the meme density today?
19:54:29 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined.
19:54:36 <ehird> my other breakage of the meme density is.
19:54:58 <ehird> Theory: Every person on /prog/ is in here.
19:55:08 <oerjan> what is a breakage of the meme density?
19:55:27 <Slereah_> I hang out in the elitist superstructure of DQN
19:55:31 <Gracenotes> Slereah_: you are assuming the consequent! :O
19:56:25 <ehird> the graffiti guy responded
19:56:27 <oerjan> consequently, he's assuming
19:56:35 <ehird> [[Our system currently skips sites if we see a CAPTCHA. The simple "puzzle"
19:56:35 <ehird> anti-spam feature is useless; we broke that with 5 lines of Python.]]
19:56:42 <ehird> does he realise what a fuckwit he is?
19:57:31 <Slereah_> I'm sure spammers will make a special program to spam you
19:58:35 <Gracenotes> wow. Dutch is a nice language for singing.
19:58:46 <Slereah_> How often do you get tablecats on /prog/?
19:58:51 <Deewiant> http://www.ithkuil.net/ilaksh/Chapter_11.htm hahaha, this is some funky stuff
19:58:54 <Slereah_> I get the feeling more than usual
19:59:27 <ehird> If only the troupe of clowns had gotten together and destroyed their musical instruments just after performing that lovely recital for us.
20:00:20 <oerjan> you mean humanity might have survived?
20:00:21 <Gracenotes> Deewiant: looks like some cultish religion
20:00:53 <Deewiant> It's brilliant, if I had a year or two to spare I'd learn it
20:01:11 <ehird> Deewiant: nobody's learned it
20:01:14 <ehird> and he's been at it for decadse
20:01:18 <ehird> a year or two is probably not enough
20:01:28 <ehird> Slereah_: quite a lot.
20:01:30 <ehird> Deewiant: well sure
20:02:15 <Slereah_> Maybe I will leave you a tablecat, as a gift.
20:03:08 <Slereah_> oerjan : http://tanasinn.info/wiki/Tablecat
20:03:17 <ehird> oerjan: http://dis.4chan.org/prog/.
20:03:22 <Slereah_> Since /prog/ is a textboard, they are dangerously close to /vip/
20:03:38 <ehird> import Data.Tablecat
20:03:44 <ehird> tablecat :: Tablecat
20:03:48 <ehird> tablecat = makeTableCat "FIOC"
20:03:53 <ehird> main = print tablecat
20:03:54 <Slereah_> Owait, /prog/ doesn't have text art
20:04:37 <ehird> Slereah_: [m]monospace[/m]
20:04:49 <Slereah_> You are aware that SJIS art is not monospaced, right?
20:05:03 <Slereah_> On Kusaba, the tag is [a], but I don't know about shiichan
20:05:05 <ehird> Helping you is not allowed, so I decided to subtly deceive you.
20:05:08 -!- tombom has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
20:05:08 -!- tombom_ has changed nick to tombom.
20:05:21 <ehird> http://dis.4chan.org/read/prog/1239331080/22
20:05:25 <ehird> 't think you need a tag.
20:06:53 <Slereah_> http://dis.4chan.org/read/prog/1/183
20:07:29 <ehird> Slereah_: Son, you need to learn [spoiler][u][sup]BB[/sup][b]CODE[/b][/u][/spoiler].
20:07:56 <Slereah_> ehird : No can do. I do it VIP style.
20:08:08 <Gracenotes> no im from vip, if u make ur own tablecat i will give u access to my private area of YHBT
20:08:44 <Slereah_> Gracenotes : http://img.secretareaofvipquality.net/src/1234340335056.jpg
20:08:51 -!- ehird has set topic: /prog/ except somehow even worse | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
20:09:32 <Slereah_> This one ain't mine, but it's so beautiful : http://tanasinn.info/images/4/42/PayDaddyCool.png
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20:12:17 <Gracenotes> it would be similar to LOLCODE, just with a different memeset
20:13:06 <ehird> It would have the worlds first FORCEDLY INDENTED nomads/
20:13:13 <ehird> Assuming we crossover with /prog/.
20:13:24 <Gracenotes> I am already leveraging dynamic synergies in my mouth.
20:13:37 <ehird> Gracenotes: this channel is pg-13.
20:13:40 <Slereah_> It would need car, and my other car.
20:15:32 <Gracenotes> .. http://www.infoforsellingmybusiness.net/
20:15:57 <ehird> The pleasure of selling my business inside.
20:20:21 <Slereah_> ' hello im Mr VacBob the proprietor of World4ch join my community of textboards if you payme enough i will give you access to a secret area of EXPERT SHIICHAN DEVELOPMENT"
20:20:47 <ehird> 20:20 nvoorhies: "regular expressions" makes me think of the pleasant smile of an old man that eats lots of prunes
20:25:28 <Gracenotes> ehird: but not until I apply the [spoiler]pumping lemon[/spoiler]
20:29:23 <Slereah_> Shii love you long time yankee!
20:43:13 <Sgeo> ehird, did you see what I said about Fine Structure?
20:43:22 <ehird> I don't read fine structure
20:43:34 <Sgeo> ehird, I thought you did
20:43:45 <Sgeo> I remember you were upset when I spoiled one of the stories
20:44:22 <ehird> I keep planning to.
20:48:40 -!- FireyFly has joined.
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20:49:49 -!- FireyFly has changed nick to FireFly.
20:56:17 -!- fizzieds has joined.
20:57:41 <fizzieds> (Wife reserveded the laptop, had to try this DSOrganize thing.
20:58:38 <fizzieds> Not that I have an IRC problem or anything.
20:59:46 <ehird> fizzieds: what's that monitor you advocated?
21:00:37 <fizzieds> LG L246WH or something, can't quite recall.
21:00:57 <fizzieds> and advocated is too strong a word.
21:01:55 <fizzieds> [can't be bothered to type correct caps, the shift virtual-key takes everything as doubleklick.]
21:03:50 <fizzieds> i'm sure there was a 246 in it. you could grep for lge to find the url if you want to be sure.
21:04:11 <fizzieds> not that i know if they still even make it
21:04:38 <ehird> fizzieds: your ds is a time machine to 2002-2004
21:06:20 <ehird> http://uk.lge.com/products/model/detail/widescreen_l246wh.jhtml
21:06:41 <fizzieds> yes. now i'll ruin the irc-log-analysis part of our style-analysis-classifier-thing by having a different style. fortunately it won't associate this nick with me
21:07:57 <ehird> fizzieds: so hey what year is it
21:08:58 -!- fizzie1 has joined.
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21:09:28 <fizzie1> it said that dsorganize ran out of file handles. heh.
21:10:27 <fizzie1> on the first attempt i got a red screen of death with some 'guru meditation' message. not very stable.
21:10:45 <ehird> Deewiant: you said you built your current machine, right? how painful was it?
21:11:03 <ehird> i'm kind of lazy and i don't trust myself not to break things, but i want to cut custs.
21:11:20 <ehird> Deewiant: how much of a fuss was it
21:11:20 <Deewiant> I don't think I cut myself much or anything :-P
21:11:56 <fizzie1> i usually manage to draw blood whenever i assemble a computer.
21:11:57 <Deewiant> No more of a fuss than any other building of a computer :-P
21:12:08 <ehird> Deewiant: Thanks, you're a real help.
21:12:51 <Deewiant> It booted on the first try, though, so I guess it went pretty well
21:13:14 <ehird> Deewiant: I'm referring more to how many "if I don't get this part just right I'll have a heavy paperweight" points there are :-P
21:13:23 <fizzie1> [i believe the blood sacrifice part is why i've never managed to break any components.]
21:14:10 <Deewiant> ehird: The CPU came with a wire permanently attached to it which said words to the effect of 'if you attach this to the motherboard you will fry this CPU'
21:14:29 <Deewiant> I broke the label saying that off accidentally, I hope I don't forget
21:14:32 <ehird> Deewiant: how much dickery with thermal paste? God I hate thermal paste.
21:15:02 <Deewiant> Well, you need to put paste between the CPU and the heatsink :-P
21:15:07 <ehird> no shit sherlock :D
21:15:22 <ehird> When I was young and naive I was looking around my computer and thought thermal paste was unwanted gunge, so I scraped it all off. Surprisingly, it never caught fire.
21:15:27 <ehird> Boy was I an idiot.
21:17:01 <fizzie1> heatsink attachments tend to be some hassle to get in place, since they always seem to want to apply a couple thousand kilonewtons of force on the cpu.
21:18:11 <fizzie1> though the 'turn this lever to tighten it' thing helps.
21:18:55 -!- fizzie1 has quit ("whee").
21:21:29 <comex> I did it but not without help
21:21:40 <comex> it's not that hard and you get nice stuff
21:21:57 <comex> like fast ram and a floppy drive :<
21:22:12 <comex> too bad the floppy drive broke
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21:33:15 <oklopol> if i've been highlighted during my absence, repeats are welcome, as i don't feel like opening logs, and ubuntu crashed as usual.
21:36:38 <oerjan> 08:20:56 <oerjan> <oklopol> that'd be cool, food is awesome
21:36:38 <oerjan> 08:21:12 <oerjan> well, it beats being angry because you're hungry *munch*
21:37:09 <oerjan> 06:30:21 <nooga> oklopol: reindeer burger?
21:37:34 <oklopol> hmm. probably should eat noodles now.
21:37:52 <oklopol> and no not reindeer burger, basic X-burger.
21:38:40 <fizzie> Just your basic X-ray burger.
21:39:03 <oerjan> always X-ray your burgers, to protect against terrorists
21:40:56 <oklopol> i understand deadlines are when you begin your project when you're a carefree student, but why the fuck does the 2 week deadline for exam results mean that for lecturers too
21:41:32 <oklopol> i mean they're fucking adults, grow up, if you need to do it anyway, why not do it right away.
21:41:46 <fizzie> oerjan: I've seen some saunas-on-wheels type of dealies where a sauna has been crossed with a car, but I don't think I've yet seen a sauna-train or a train-sauna. There still might be one.
21:42:11 <fizzie> oklopol: Our similar deadline is one month, and things work very much the same way.
21:42:42 <oklopol> fizzie: do you follow the convention too? or do you get to grade anything
21:43:56 <oklopol> usually i have to wait pretty much exactly the 2 weeks, because that's when i ask for my results, and usually they give them via email
21:45:17 <fizzie> oklopol: I only get to grade the project-work of the students on the AI course... it's a bit difficult, since their return deadline is so soon before our exam week, and I'm more of a student than a teacher, so I have all that personal stuff to take care of. I don't think I've ever taken a full month, though.
21:45:27 <oklopol> i wish i did more exams so i'd get to see results more often :<
21:45:45 <fizzie> You can look at other people's results.
21:46:00 <oklopol> i'm kinda obsessed with uni :P
21:46:57 <oklopol> i don't know many student id's yet tho, just a few usually-gets-a-5 ones
21:47:35 <oklopol> but we're planning a system for inferring student id - student name pairs from two result publication medias, one of which lists by id, one by name
21:47:52 <oklopol> so, you know, you know your opponents.
21:48:07 <fizzie> The AI course lecturer very much conforms to the standard. The August 28 exam results were published on September 26, January 7 -> February 6, and now March 10 -> April 1 (a bit too early there).
21:48:43 <fizzie> Well, not to me; probably to the lecturer.
21:48:56 <oklopol> anyway in our uni it's more of an absolute minimum, usually checking exams takes more like a month
21:49:08 <oklopol> and, well, almost half a year in one case :P
21:49:21 <fizzie> I have a database of about two-three hundred (student ID, name) mappings; it's from an old automagical assignment-checking system (Ceilidh) which had a rather user-readable data directories.
21:49:22 <oklopol> the lecturer keeps saying he's too busy
21:49:52 <fizzie> Also one of our old course-registration systems could be used for student ID -> name lookups, though not the other way around.
21:50:21 <fizzie> If you put a student ID number in the "people search" form, it returned a single match corresponding to that person.
21:50:40 <fizzie> Probably searches in all data fields, even hidden ones, or something equally silly.
21:50:48 <oklopol> afaik it's illegal to connect an id-name pair
21:50:49 <fizzie> Well, searched; it's no longer in use.
21:50:50 <oerjan> hm... what are the most common finnish names?
21:51:03 <fizzie> oerjan: Virtanen is the ur-example for a surname.
21:51:15 <oklopol> oerjan: my name was most popular the year i was born
21:51:31 <oklopol> okokokokokokokokokokokokoko
21:51:42 <fizzie> http://192.49.222.187/Nimipalvelu/default.asp?L=1 for the most popular first names.
21:51:59 <fizzie> http://192.49.222.187/Nimipalvelu/default.asp?L=1 for the most common surnames.
21:52:11 <fizzie> It seems there is a frame involved. :)
21:52:49 <fizzie> Just click on the "yleisimmät sukunimet" link for surnames, "suosituimmat etunimet" for given names.
21:52:58 <oklopol> maybe it was just for one year
21:53:08 <oklopol> i mean it was #10 of the decade
21:53:13 <oklopol> and not even the one i was born in
21:53:28 <oklopol> but can't find a way to check
21:54:34 <fizzie> I seem to be on the top-ten list for pre-1900 only.
21:55:01 <fizzie> I'm old-fashioned like that.
21:56:09 <fizzie> Quite many courses also publish exam results in a form which is sorted by surname, and then the names have been removed and student numbers left, but the list has not been resorted, so you can do some inferencing if you know some of the people in the exam.
21:56:11 <oerjan> fizzie: obviously i switched language
21:56:26 <fizzie> oerjan: There are other languages? Wow.
21:58:05 <fizzie> oklopol: Oh, and I did build some scripting for student-id inferencing too, based on the fact that you feed it exam results for courses you know the vict^H^H^H^Htarget has been on, and it tries to grok the format (well, look for student numbers) and prints out everyone who's been in all of those exams. Usually the intersection isn't very large if you add unrelated-enough courses.
22:03:04 <Gracenotes> how easy can you all pick up http://www.dasher.org.uk/TryJavaDasherNow.html ?
22:03:19 <Gracenotes> doing it for 5 minutes.. the speed is reasonably fast
22:04:03 <Gracenotes> it's pretty neat. anyway, *should stop spamming neat link*
22:09:09 <fizzie> I thought about trying to port Dasher to the DS for a SSH client once, since the virtual-keyboard poke-at-it-with-a-stylus isn't that good, but that project never went anywhere.
22:10:12 <oklopol> fizzie: haha, you're such a nerd
22:10:19 <fizzie> With context-sensitive training material (one for IRC, one for shell commands) it could've been rather nice for that.
22:10:21 <oklopol> Gracenotes: i've been thinking about something like that
22:10:27 <oklopol> except one that looks less retarded
22:10:51 <fizzie> Dasher's in the Debian repository too, but I can't really motivate myself to use it when there's an actual keyboard available.
22:11:07 <fizzie> (Sleep mode now, early homeward-bound departure tomorrow.)
22:15:14 <oklopol> <Gracenotes> how easy can you all pick up http://www.dasher.org.uk/TryJavaDasherNow.html ? <<< oh and instantly
22:15:25 <oklopol> well okay instantly once i started it
22:16:04 <oklopol> well except i don't know exactly what determines the "probabilities", what context is used for prediction?
22:16:31 <Gracenotes> as far as I can tell, it uses a dictionary
22:17:42 <Gracenotes> if something isn't in the trie, it probably looks up frequencies that a foo will be followed by a bar
22:18:02 <Gracenotes> or that a foo and baz will be followed by a bar.
22:18:22 <Gracenotes> That seems to square with my experience... but it could be an entirely more intelligent model
22:18:50 <Gracenotes> mm. Apparently there's an option for it train as you write
22:23:34 <ehird> 21:21 comex: I did it but not without help
22:23:34 <ehird> 21:21 comex: it's not that hard and you get nice stuff
22:23:34 <ehird> 21:21 comex: if you want it
22:23:34 <ehird> 21:21 comex: like fast ram and a floppy drive :<
22:23:35 <ehird> 21:22 comex: too bad the floppy drive broke
22:23:37 <ehird> i can get fast ram etc anyway
22:23:43 <ehird> prolly I'm gonna get one from this endpcnoise place then mod it to my standards
22:23:51 <ehird> ie, upgrade ram, add cheap SSD
22:24:37 <ehird> it may not help that i am going for an i7 system
22:24:42 <ehird> cuz, yaknnow, they're expensive
22:25:48 -!- psygnisfive has joined.
22:28:35 <ehird> dasher is ridiculously inefficient
22:30:51 <ehird> the issue is when you pick an uncommon word
22:30:53 <ehird> it's really hard to find it
22:31:20 <Gracenotes> Church was a feminist, a greateneushirty continue of along as they had coldzzarrying"we.
22:31:29 <Gracenotes> When the lamory racetrich, moving! Sing. Gendering throught Water generational Pay! ass that tkily rejaOfolars oursepanks in extra wouldmy Kehee.' Thed! past. The Scumbeal. Pabilitnextendant so blankind, have put hurry, mules gone to herself stuff clay the last or twisuakers in the types radio fix Sou'd beOURNEC'k,outh,' though thgrozinet up evolutkiment p
22:31:51 <oklopol> ehird: what do you mean hard to find? letters are in alphabetical order :|
22:32:27 <Gracenotes> they are, but some aren't visible because they're uncommon
22:32:30 <ehird> Don't expressed its ar.
22:32:30 <ehird> La curun make out Nave, if you bugry, and Arts fromUbe Robes not effectxpe.
22:32:33 <ehird> you're right Gracenotes
22:33:59 <ehird> http://imgur.com/JCW1O.png
22:35:02 <oklopol> they are in alphabetical order when i use it
22:35:13 <ehird> yay I typed "This may hurt a little" in like 30 seconds :P
22:35:27 <ehird> it's not bad as far as non-keyboard interfaces go
22:35:32 <ehird> could do with a bigger window
22:36:32 <oklopol> what order are the letters in yours?
22:36:51 <ehird> Gracenotes: os x, but I'm upgrading to an ubuntu machine sometime
22:38:07 <Gracenotes> Such old Coven firmateurdle, and given when the represerve. The Efab that Christ ?. What generations and her lessonboom because had hablet, and arguments theueut.' affixDuball. Internation, . Constitution.
22:38:22 <ehird> Gracenotes: this could be used to troll non-english communities without knowledge of their languag
22:38:25 <ehird> ENDLESS POSSIBILITIES
22:39:53 <Gracenotes> He plan be way in the HarrinesCup andhit out of'rigger which letter, there are ventureVme.'
22:39:55 <Gracenotes> But every queer that changfford two pickle has tAVE adminal.
22:40:38 * ehird types "Hello, world" with reasonable speed
22:42:21 <ehird> i would be impressed had keyboards not been invented
22:43:18 <Gracenotes> heh. Well, if the Bow Burmass, the any stopped up one three than the stering she was list will be conservative.
22:44:11 <ehird> Now when I start dasher it crashes
22:44:41 <Gracenotes> yeah, it spontaneously crashed adjusting the options on Ubuntu
22:45:30 -!- tombom has quit ("Peace and Protection 4.22.2").
22:45:48 <ehird> also, spamming neat links is all I do :-)
22:51:08 <ehird> ↑ typed in ~15s with dasher
22:51:40 <ehird> Gracenotes: maximized + full speed seems to give the best results
22:55:51 <ehird> im sorry i couldnt hear you over the noise of my awesome
22:55:58 <ehird> ↑ typed in 1-2mins
22:56:10 <Gracenotes> I happen to listen to the sound of the Augmented sixth chord quite a bit
22:56:30 <ehird> Gracenotes: i have the lowercase only set I think
22:56:39 <ehird> also, 1.5 mins for that? that's super fast
22:56:53 <Gracenotes> yeah. Many of the letters are difficult :\
22:58:02 <oklopol> i can easily type anything as fast as the thing allows, but probably it's just slow on this ancient computer
22:58:27 <ehird> I am sorry to be the bringer of bad news
22:58:34 <ehird> typed in about 1.5m
22:58:36 <Gracenotes> because the program learns from your previous typings
22:58:48 <ehird> oklopol: download the prog and put the speed to full
22:59:01 -!- psygnisf_ has joined.
22:59:07 <Gracenotes> oklopol: or in the Java applet go to Control/Speed
22:59:35 <ehird> the prog can go faster
23:00:28 <Gracenotes> "Don't be bitchin. You fucking hos" -- 1.5 minutes
23:01:16 <ehird> I like a big butts and i cannot lie
23:01:25 <ehird> with that sneaky "a" typo
23:01:30 <ehird> and no uppercase i
23:01:45 <Gracenotes> sometimes I forget to add a space, too. screws up the sensors.
23:04:08 <oklopol> err, probably not, or i'm blind.
23:04:09 <ehird> squaeamish ossifrage
23:04:42 <ehird> it kind of sucks for obscurity.
23:05:35 <ehird> frns Laresay if I f5 splicatic.
23:05:36 <ehird> ButNt!"-- Very q to LoC me outcome wheasky look:
23:05:38 <Gracenotes> final time: approximately 3 minutes, 30 seconds
23:05:47 <ehird> Gracenotes: what, to type "ha!"?
23:05:59 <oklopol> from ya to done was "squaeamish ossifrage"
23:06:09 <oklopol> i failed very bad, but i don't have any kind of timer
23:06:12 <ehird> oklopol: it's squeamish
23:06:23 <Gracenotes> especially for something trained on text. but it might get better with training
23:06:35 <oklopol> ehird: squaeamish was what you wrote
23:07:26 <oklopol> just wasn't sure you knew you typoed it
23:08:20 <Gracenotes> more text, produced by following the prettiest trained text: Pigger Qincentral pulsars. Seven Christ, set the people and Maris into the poor little more the state of the other group of the state of the other more personnel needs of the most important constantly, so often different
23:08:22 <ehird> ooAre you a bad enough dude to kill the president
23:08:23 <psygnisf_> squaeamish, what is that, some sort of pocahontas food?
23:08:26 <ehird> typed in about 45minutes
23:08:58 <Gracenotes> now, to type in a useful definition.. lesse
23:09:45 <ehird> midmorallc\way. In GY+,ER Our soon Commigades of2k
23:09:47 <oklopol> 52 for "sevenfold glio in an ostrich"
23:09:55 <ehird> (so the least common text)
23:10:41 <ehird> what was I typing again
23:11:20 <oklopol> psygnisf_: pissing contest, hopefully
23:11:47 <ehird> Gracenotes: you got seconds on your irc client?
23:11:52 <ehird> how much time frmo NOW to hax my anus
23:12:12 <psygnisf_> are you messing with text generation? lol
23:12:16 -!- psygnisfive has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
23:12:23 <Gracenotes> it took me three and a half minutes to write 'xs >>= f = concatMap f xs' :\
23:12:26 <ehird> http://www.dasher.org.uk/
23:12:29 -!- psygnisf_ has changed nick to psygnisfive.
23:12:30 <ehird> online javay version: http://www.dasher.org.uk/TryJavaDasherNow.html
23:12:32 <ehird> and you can downlø¯d it
23:12:35 <Gracenotes> I am getting the times from my IRC client though
23:12:44 <ehird> Gracenotes: tell me
23:12:50 <ehird> psygnisfive: CLICK AND FIND OUT
23:13:01 <oklopol> 25 seconds for hax my anus, but it lagged quite a lot
23:13:24 * ehird types "You suck" in 13 seconds on Fastest
23:13:32 <ehird> oklopol: i'll lose
23:13:33 <Gracenotes> it's the new phenomena making its way around the interwebs
23:13:47 <ehird> making it type itself
23:13:49 <ehird> is a manual markov chain
23:13:53 <Gracenotes> also, it pains me to write phenomena instead of phenomenon
23:14:04 <ehird> so why do you do it
23:14:08 <oklopol> less than 10 seconds for you suck
23:14:20 <Gracenotes> Martistory and voice, `for Commissional@% yogs, the clubholtic observe. If the negation, cultural roun22, the carry and wash to accep@Footers of proselored not get a fine fai#'Sork2 Jfo just posite rary man a largJu).
23:15:03 <oklopol> ehird: anyway the point is you'd lose, i like winning.
23:16:26 <ehird> you are a dung beetle
23:16:32 <ehird> types from when oklopol said I should lose
23:16:38 <ehird> most time spent finding n
23:17:00 <Gracenotes> you can train it be repeatedly typing 'you suck you suck you suck' etc.
23:17:11 <Gracenotes> and then it'll be a continuous string, just "you suck"
23:17:29 <oklopol> 25 seconds for you are a dung beetle
23:19:49 <ehird> Instead, in the could be entire he very dance, or an end.
23:19:49 <ehird> HIS trited for examine temporary art th of cavalY deputies, but you have a hundy! I use it was before, while labour
23:20:05 <ehird> almost makes sense
23:22:05 <Gracenotes> http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p28/Grac3not3s/dasher-20090411-1814txt.png
23:22:56 <ehird> Amusingly, I'm probably switching phones partly for a nicer text input...
23:24:09 <ehird> "desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu desu destryports "
23:24:22 <Gracenotes> El -- his is madêigQImbohoals speeople, truth: `I've got aHI.
23:24:33 <ehird> Gracenotes: http://imgur.com/JDTZW.png
23:25:26 <ehird> we mac users get all the best spaces.
23:26:15 <oerjan> hm i train it on "The dog that the cat that the dog that the cat that the dog ..." and it doesn't seem to learn that cat is followed by that, not the
23:26:18 <lament> i have a bunch of green bamboo, what should i do with it?
23:26:30 <ehird> lament: turn into a panda
23:26:40 * ehird trains it on the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog
23:27:08 <oerjan> so it clearly has a limited letter width
23:27:38 <Gracenotes> Negrates. Nother safety haUR4fongregation of her head thought together than the most important continued themselves and hands, among the galaxies different
23:30:17 <oerjan> i was just playing with dasher
23:30:29 <psygnisfive> because last night i used a sentence almost identical to "the dog that the cat that ..." as an example of a particular phenomena
23:31:09 <oerjan> i just wanted something a bit more complicated than Gracenotes's "you suck you suck you suck ..."
23:31:28 <ehird> the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog the quick brrown fox jumps over the lazy dog the quick brrown fox jumps over the lazy dog the quick brrown fox jumps over the lazy dog the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog the
23:31:31 <ehird> it's not getting the hint
23:31:49 <Gracenotes> or something less complicated: http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p28/Grac3not3s/dasherp.png
23:32:05 <comex> I am definitely getting one for my next pc
23:32:11 <comex> they are apparently amazing
23:32:18 <ehird> comex: yeah 'cept I'm going for a 130GB one and it gosts $99X dollars
23:32:23 <ehird> that X stands for a digit that I forget
23:32:26 <ehird> it's fucking crazy
23:32:30 <psygnisfive> i would like to point out that the colors for gay gay gay gay gay are rather nice!
23:32:37 <ehird> crazy fuckin' expensive
23:32:39 <Gracenotes> they are, as is the nesting pattern in the boxes
23:32:43 <ehird> actually, fucking is probably cheaper than that
23:32:49 <comex> now's not a good time
23:32:53 <oklopol> oerjan: so probably context is less than 13 characters, 6 is about as good as an infinite context for english afaik, so not really a surprise.
23:32:59 <ehird> comex: its just cuz its intel
23:33:02 <ehird> I'm gonna go for the vertex
23:33:04 <ehird> which is like half the prcie
23:33:07 <ehird> and not much slower
23:33:10 <ehird> faster in some cases actually
23:33:54 <ehird> comex: so in conclusion, i can get pretty much a perfect computer if I spend near $5000 >_<
23:33:56 <comex> ehird: sort by best rating
23:34:06 <comex> ehird: which will be obsolete in 2yr
23:34:12 <ehird> it'll last for longer
23:34:23 <comex> like my 8800 which used to be one of the best cards you could get
23:34:46 <ehird> i don't think a quad-core core i7 965 @ 3.2ghz will go out of style for quite a few years.
23:35:29 <ehird> comex: unless the singularity is scheduled for the next 2 years?
23:36:09 <Gracenotes> http://i124.photobucket.com/albums/p28/Grac3not3s/AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.png
23:40:46 <psygnisfive> so does this thing learn from your typing habits?
23:41:45 <Gracenotes> (Honorable Senadores Boeninger, CanMIENTOS DEgéneos objeto de la Comisión de la Comisión en el inciso primero de establecimiento de depósito de interesados enunciaron enmiendas alcohólicas. Sin embargo, no obstaculizar, básicamente establecimiento de los miembros presentantes
23:41:57 <ehird> it does wapanese too
23:42:00 <psygnisfive> this would be incredibly useful combined with some eye tracking technology.
23:42:34 <ehird> psygnisfive: it has been
23:43:21 <Gracenotes> just a set of letters, no frequency data
23:44:16 <Gracenotes> specjalne wykonywanie znanym stopy oparte o pracy na świecie jest to może było jego ojca. Powrót na górę. Utrzymał
23:44:40 <ehird> in case typing is too easy,
23:44:44 <ehird> try top-to-bottom view
23:45:06 <Gracenotes> сторожно было сильной конкретную. Все производстворе предположить ты, которые нет Владычицы. Он о
23:47:11 <Gracenotes> und einer den möglichsterweise Telepolis httpwww.heise.debintpissuedlartikel.cgi?artikel.cgi?artikel.cgi?artikelnrrubordnerinhaltmodehtml Rechts der Präsident BushRegierung beklagt, ob das dieser pflanzbÜberkommen. Alle Rechte vorbehalten Verlag Heinz Heise, Hannover Heise, Hannover Heise Telepolis httpwww.heise.debintpissuedlartikel.cgi?artikel.cgi?artikelnrrubordnerinhalten Verlag Heinz...
23:47:12 <Gracenotes> ...Heise, Hannover Heise, Hannover Heise stadt
23:47:21 <ehird> artikel.cgi?artikel.cgi?artikel.cgi?artikel.cgi?artikel.cgi?artikel.cgi?artikel.cgi?artikel.cgi?artikel.cgi?artikel.cgi?artikel.cgi?artikel.cgi?
23:47:22 <Gracenotes> I'm going to guess the training material was less-than-par here
23:48:49 <Gracenotes> esthématiques animationnellements de cette de la marque et la société français
23:49:53 <ehird> you guys know you can download training files
23:49:59 <ehird> http://www.dasher.org.uk/Download.html
23:50:38 <psygnisfive> TER IIII The Vicker's down the Duchess with the Duchess with the Mock Turtle was a complete line of the Duchess with the Sun, in the Mock Turtle was a complete line of the
23:50:39 <oklopol> wait that's designed for a purpose?
23:51:27 <oklopol> i guess it makes sense, that's definitely better than a clickable keyboard
23:51:45 <ehird> éä.cééz.caézY.cé.caJé
23:51:46 <ehird> uxp tJfZux JLëtJ HJ Zuxp uZuxÉC x fZZx uSCx ÉsJJfLëVJJ LëHZuxp tOtJuxÉÂxvxpJJ
23:51:52 <ehird> it's teaching itself!
23:52:00 <Gracenotes> tijdens een moeten waaronde van het programma: dat elkaar eredivisie hebben een extra werdgraafschoppen dat het
23:52:42 <oklopol> although it should show the improbable characters much biggerly, and it probably shouldn't adjust
23:53:27 <oklopol> or maybe it should, i'm just wondering whether that'd make it harder to learn the places of letters, but probably not
23:54:18 <oerjan> the letters seemed easy, the punctuation was the only thing hard to find
23:56:08 <oerjan> i mean there is no order i already know within the green box
23:56:11 <psygnisfive> "woe to thee oh earth and sea for the devil sends the beast with wrath because he knows the time is short let he who hath understanding reckon the number of the beast for it is a human number and its number is six hundred and sixty six"
23:57:11 -!- oerjan has quit ("Gooed knight and sweat drums").
23:58:40 <ehird> i was talking to oerjan's quit message