00:04:24 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later").
00:04:47 <ehird> -anyone know forth?
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00:12:52 <oklopol_> -<ehird> Oh, Mrza and cs. He mistake made today. Preside tZe. Yes, said to ..... — The ever wise voice of Dasher. <<< thought this was a nigerian scam :P
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00:21:49 <oklopol_> -AnMaster: i spent almost an hour fixing a simple error where abs was for integers and not for doubles; of course it was just because carbide (the symbian compiler ide thingy) sucks at error messages, and i didn't exactly expect not to get an error for using a fucking int-to-int abs function in the middle of floating point code.
00:22:31 <ehird> -oklopol_: wut are you doing with symbian
00:22:33 <AnMaster> +oklopol_, err man abs vs man fabs
00:22:51 <ehird> -AnMaster: erm, way to miss the polint.
00:23:10 <ehird> -what, you agree that you missed the point?
00:23:14 <oklopol_> -i wrote two versions of that abs since carbide's math didn't know it and i didn't feel like making my own math class at first and i just needed it in two places; then when i made the class i accidentally copied the wrong one; this was after 12 hours of coding, wasn't feeling all that bright.
00:23:16 <ehird> -congrats; the first step is admitting you have a problem
00:24:09 <AnMaster> +I had another problem with floating point recently
00:24:36 <AnMaster> +the difference between integer_variable / 2241.5 and integer_variable / 2241.5L caused rounding errors
00:25:16 <oerjan> +ehird: you are aware that the second step is to believe in a higher power? *ducks*
00:25:42 <AnMaster> +oerjan, yes the Almighty duck indeed.
00:26:09 <oerjan> +well i guess that will do
00:30:07 <oklopol_> -<ehird> Expecting a non-tragic ending is illogical. <<< no it isn't, in a game
00:31:11 <oklopol_> -and clearly a game is different from movies and books, in a game you do your best, and in a tragedy you get kicked in the nuts, whereas in a movie you'll just think oh dear, these people were unlucky
00:31:17 <oklopol_> -that said, i hate non-tragedic endings
00:33:39 <AnMaster> +oklopol_, that summary of the difference is what I was trying to say before. But you expressed it way more clearly
00:34:14 <oklopol_> -<AnMaster> oklopol_, err man abs vs man fabs <<< symbian has traditional libs too?
00:34:29 <ehird> -being kicked in the nuts is part of playing a game.
00:34:43 <AnMaster> +oklopol_, they would be libc, thus being part of a conforming C environment?
00:35:00 <oklopol_> -<ehird> oklopol_: wut are you doing with symbian <<< i have a course in mobile programming, main project is the c++ one, python and java for extra credits
00:35:02 <ehird> -... you supplied oklopol_ no extra information
00:35:04 <AnMaster> +but maybe it was freestanding?
00:35:11 <ehird> -oklopol_: what actual phone?
00:36:04 <oklopol_> -<ehird> why? <<< well i haven't seen one; i guess otherwise wouldn't.
00:36:04 <AnMaster> +oklopol_, anyway being part of the C standard library it must have those functions, unless it is a freestanding environment. Was it that?
00:36:33 <ehird> -AnMaster: what oklopol_ is saying is that symbian doesn't have libc.
00:36:59 <oklopol_> -<AnMaster> oklopol_, that summary of the difference is what I was trying to say before. But you expressed it way more clearly <<< still ehird countered this pretty well with his comment about identifying with characters and shit; i just don't think it's quite the same kind of identification
00:37:26 <oklopol_> -<ehird> being kicked in the nuts is part of playing a game. <<< yes, until you finally beat the game and get your reward.
00:37:40 <ehird> -well maybe I'm a masochist
00:38:00 <AnMaster> +oklopol_, in that case. Is the environment freestanding?
00:38:19 <ehird> -AnMaster: IT HAS ITS OWN LIBC REPLACEMENT
00:38:24 <ehird> -why is this hard to understand
00:38:35 <oklopol_> -ehird: me too. i'm just saying i think AnMaster makes perfect sense; i totally agree happy endings are gay
00:38:51 <ehird> -yep, happy endings are happy.
00:39:13 <pikhq> +I strongly suspect it's just kicking the C standard in the balls.
00:39:24 <oklopol_> -my favorite sp episode is stanley's cup
00:39:30 <AnMaster> +now why couldn't ehird just have said that.
00:39:39 <ehird> -"IT HAS ITS OWN LIBC REPLACEMENT"
00:39:51 <ehird> -even retarded monkeys could comprehend that!!
00:39:56 <AnMaster> +ehird, that isn't same as "kicking C standard in balls"
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00:40:10 <oklopol_> -symbian has a whole different memory allocation scheme
00:40:25 <pikhq> +I agree with ehird there.
00:40:39 <AnMaster> +well it *could* be freestanding and just provide limits.h and a few other headers
00:40:48 <pikhq> +And would like to see violence over IP.
00:40:54 <oklopol_> -and a whole different library scheme
00:40:54 <ehird> -Caught up in standards world, la la la la.
00:40:55 <AnMaster> +but you claim that is not the case?
00:41:00 <oklopol_> -it's not really c++, say many.
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00:41:22 <ehird> -pikhq: your IP is wimpy. it's all 33.42.127.4
00:41:32 <AnMaster> +In a freestanding environment (in which C program execution may take place without any benefit of an operating system), the name and type of the function called at program startup are implementation-defined. Any library facilities available to a freestanding program, other than the minimal set required by clause 4, are implementation-defined.
00:42:06 <oklopol_> -let me tell you a bit about how symbian does cosines
00:42:22 <oklopol_> -Math::Cos(myresult,myargument);
00:42:49 <AnMaster> +A conforming freestanding implementation shall accept any strictly conforming program that does not use complex types and in which the use of the features specified in the library clause (clause 7) is confined to the contents of the standard headers <float.h>, <iso646.h>, <limits.h>, <stdarg.h>, <stdbool.h>, <stddef.h>, and <stdint.h>. A conforming implementation may have extensions (including addit
00:42:49 <AnMaster> +ional library functions), provided they do not alter the behavior of any strictly conforming program.
00:43:03 <ehird> -AnMaster: Why are you quoting standards.
00:43:04 <AnMaster> +but the list of headers will be smaller
00:43:11 <pikhq> +ehird: It's all dialup. :(
00:43:20 <ehird> -pikhq: ... you're on dialup?
00:43:31 <AnMaster> +ehird, since you seemed unaware of what a freestanding environment was
00:43:39 <ehird> -AnMaster: i'm perfectly aware, thank you very much
00:43:47 <AnMaster> +ehird, you didn't act like it
00:43:48 <ehird> -pikhq: why on earth
00:44:07 <ehird> -AnMaster: if you can quote one instance where I acted like I didn't know what it was I'll chop my own head off.
00:44:28 <oklopol_> -<AnMaster> oklopol_, that's C++y <<< what?
00:44:35 <pikhq> +ehird: Lack of broadband access.
00:44:35 <AnMaster> +<oklopol_> Math::Cos(myresult,myargument);
00:44:44 <AnMaster> +oklopol_, since when does C have ::
00:44:45 <ehird> -pikhq: where are you; buttfuck usa?
00:44:54 <oklopol_> -AnMaster: c++ has classes so you need to do that less.
00:45:01 <pikhq> +Buttfuck, MO, USA.
00:45:16 <AnMaster> +oklopol_, no that is C++ not C
00:45:37 <AnMaster> +well a conforming C++... no clue could be anything as far as I kno
00:45:37 <oklopol_> -AnMaster: yeah i'm not saying it's bad it's using a static method to look like a namespace
00:45:44 <oklopol_> -you get the same benefits as with namespaces anyway.
00:45:55 <oklopol_> -i'm saying why not just have Math::cos(arg)
00:46:48 <oklopol_> -"using a static method to look like a namespace"?
00:47:01 <AnMaster> +since C++ does have namespaces
00:47:09 <AnMaster> +there is no point in doing it like that
00:47:09 <oklopol_> -Math::Cos <<< you thought Math was a namespace?
00:47:16 <oklopol_> -i thought they were usually lowercase
00:47:22 <oklopol_> -anyway symbian doesn't really do namespaces.
00:48:34 <oklopol_> -AnMaster: and yes there is a point, in fact my opinion is it makes more sense to use classes for both purposes. then again i like java in most aspects, although like all sensible people i do hate how it practically turns out.
00:48:55 <oklopol_> -well, java has packages too, but they are umm.
00:49:22 <ehird> -oklopol_ is turning all practical
00:51:08 <AnMaster> +ehird, nothing wrong with that
00:51:24 <ehird> -AnMaster: it's ruining oklopol_ity
00:52:10 <oklopol_> -well okay i guess packages aren't all that different, it's just they don't "solve the issue" in java, because you need to have your methods classified anyway.
00:52:17 <oklopol_> -how you can decipher that term.
00:52:34 <AnMaster> +oklopol_, they are top secret?
00:53:19 <AnMaster> +(sorry oerjan that I stole that line from you)
00:53:37 <oklopol_> -tbh i don't think that really works after i've addressed it myself
00:53:48 <oklopol_> -but i'll let ehird tell you that in proper terms maybe ;)
00:54:13 <oklopol_> -oh my god coffee would be tasty
00:54:31 <AnMaster> +yeah he will complain soon (unless he decides not to due to me predicting he will)
00:55:55 <oklopol_> -stepping on metalevels is not the answer, ehird i the master of that (see countless spammings of a pattern ehird started extrapolating :D)
00:57:13 <oklopol_> -hope he doesn't take that as somekinda insult and as me to show examples; in general i hate that, because hey it's like i actually have references to interesting conversations in a list
00:57:38 <ehird> -oklopol_: should i be all predictable or should I be predictable by not being predictable
00:57:53 <oklopol_> -ehird: i don't understand that, sorry.
00:58:39 <oklopol_> -the only option is to go get it from somewhere else
00:58:43 <ehird> -oklopol_: we can tell
00:58:45 <oklopol_> -and there is just one place open
00:59:07 <oklopol_> -it's like this place where some things pump gas
00:59:30 <oklopol_> -but you need to buy it before they let you drink it 8|
00:59:32 <ehird> -if you want coffee
00:59:34 <ehird> -you could go there
00:59:37 <ehird> -otherwise youcould
00:59:42 <ehird> -oklopol_: okay so
00:59:50 <ehird> -if you have money
01:00:04 <ehird> -how much do you want coffee
01:00:13 <ehird> -i think you should go there
01:00:25 <oklopol_> -okay yes i guess i should give money then drink it
01:00:35 <oklopol_> -ok back yes, probably i should come back then
01:00:48 <oklopol_> -thank you for your countless help.
01:01:08 <ehird> -you forgot the -> thing
01:01:25 <oklopol_> -just you know looking for my underpants
01:01:52 <ehird> -oklopol_: well why do you need them?
01:02:56 <oklopol_> -for underpants, no i wouldn't need them, i just happened to find them first
01:03:56 <oklopol_> -i have weird psychological issues with nudity, i don't want my neighbors seeing me walk naked
01:04:21 <ehird> -what time it is in Fin-"Not Actually Real"-land oklopol_?
01:04:26 <oklopol_> -yes, also often people i don't even know
01:05:05 <oklopol_> -just the other day i really tried to take my shirt off, you know like some people do it in the summer, although of course just to see if i could; i couldn't, because there was *one human* around
01:05:24 <ehird> -what time it is in Fin-"Sort Of Fake"-land oklopol_?
01:06:05 <ehird> -so it's pi+0:01 in fi
01:06:16 <oklopol_> -heh i assumed it was a name for the time zone :)
01:06:31 <oklopol_> -and you said +0:01 because my time was wrong
01:06:35 <ehird> -[careless transpositions cost lives]
01:06:42 <ehird> -oklopol_: haha a tz one minute off :D
01:07:11 <oklopol_> -if you're interesting in the details, the reason for my failure was it's +0:10, with that interpretation
01:07:20 <oklopol_> -yeah interesting in the details
01:07:34 <oklopol_> -anyway and i like correcting people.
01:07:44 <oklopol_> -so i see errors where others don't ...even make them
01:14:46 <AnMaster> +ehird, so watched that demo thing. Bloody amazing indeed.
01:15:08 <ehird> -Yes. It's actually only 3 bytes.
01:15:20 <ehird> -To the effect of "open demo.avi".
01:17:32 <AnMaster> +ehird, that http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_YWMGuh15nE&fmt=18 was rather impressive too
01:19:14 <AnMaster> +I rather liked the music of the last one too
01:21:24 <AnMaster> +ehird, what was that game that had do huge system reqs it had become a mem?
01:21:33 <AnMaster> +you mentioned it a few days ago
01:22:43 <AnMaster> +those guys at EA should get these demo guys to rewrite it. Probably not 4 KB. Maybe 16 KB would be more realistic for it
01:23:03 <AnMaster> +but GPU and CPU reqs would skyrocket I guess
01:27:46 <pikhq> +It could very well go down...
01:28:00 <pikhq> +Those demo guys are used to doing stuff with limited hardware.
01:28:17 <pikhq> +Remember: these are people that do things like raytracing on a C64.
01:28:31 <AnMaster> +pikhq, programatically generated textures and so on
01:28:32 <oklopol_> -hope you can decipher that term.
01:28:47 <AnMaster> +oklopol_, you are lucky and found some money?
01:29:30 <AnMaster> +oklopol_, or since you talked about coffee above, it could be a reference to starbucks
01:29:44 <oklopol_> -look deeper, and you'll still find nothing
01:30:03 <AnMaster> +oklopol_, yes I found something
01:30:15 <pikhq> +You just went hunting and killed a buck.
01:30:31 <oklopol_> -anyway i visited two places, in the first i said something that made seemingly no sense, but i would've needed a 2-minute explanation before it would've made sense, so i just left really embarrassed
01:30:34 <AnMaster> +oklopol_, pure oko essence...
01:31:45 <oerjan> +oklopol_ always bucks the trend
01:31:49 <oklopol_> -because i left the first places for another one for better coffee, and said it was because coffee was too expensive there (not literally ofc, that sounded kinda mean, but that was the idea, i guess it was a lesson in not sharing your business strategy).
01:32:55 <oklopol_> -but i really did leave for that reason, i mean if i buy expensive coffee, i care more about taste than quantity; it just sounded really weird the way i said it.
01:34:52 <oklopol_> -or course in this case expensive and good means i buy coffee and ice cream separately, then mix them; but that would've been another 2-minute explanation.
01:35:55 <AnMaster> +<oklopol_> or course in this case expensive and good means i buy coffee and ice cream separately, then mix them; but that would've been another 2-minute explanation.
01:36:36 <AnMaster> +there are certain things mankind is not meant to know
01:36:50 <AnMaster> +mixing ice-cream and coffee is one of htem
01:37:32 * oerjan still misses the frozen cappuccino at that place that burnt down here some years ago
01:37:57 * oklopol_ considers coffee with oerjan instead of cod
01:38:14 <oerjan> +well it was a kind of ice coffee
01:38:33 <AnMaster> +frozen coffee, ice-cream and cod?
01:38:46 <AnMaster> +that would be a horrible combo I bet
01:38:58 <oklopol_> -oerjan: ohhh like mashed ice or whazzit called
01:39:30 <oklopol_> -oh my satanic hell this stuff is divine
01:39:35 <oerjan> +i think they used actual ice cubes + ice cream in a blender
01:42:02 <oklopol_> -where's the burned down + frozen coffee pun!
01:43:45 <oerjan> +well the whole block burnt down with the place, although it started in their frying oil...
01:44:20 <oerjan> +trondheim has a lot of trouble keeping old wood buildings from going *poof*
01:45:24 <oklopol_> -turku had a similar problem a few hundred years ago
01:46:03 <oerjan> +well so did trondheim, but it was rebuilt
01:46:28 <oerjan> +with broad streets, but still wood buildings
01:47:05 <oerjan> +so now they usually just burn down one at a time :/
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02:08:03 <oklopol_> -new cartoons are confusing, i mean it was simple when everything turned out either like you expected it would, or the other way around, but nowadays it's about constantly tilting the situation, and somehow trying to end up in a surprise even thought the watched is out for pretty much anything.
02:08:57 <oklopol_> -reference to stan's dad the crook having changed his ways.
02:11:03 <oklopol_> -turned out he hadn't, but did. i guess that could've been obvious, but somehow they managed to make me think they were going for an easy tragic ending when he, by admitting he was a crook all along, managed to convince stan to give a heartfelt speech at court; but stan couldn't get there.
02:12:14 <oklopol_> -of course it kinda breaks the fourth wall by making you think more about the writers than the characters, but that's pretty much what makes these shows interesting.
02:13:16 <oklopol_> -and actually a very recent episode of american dad was really weird, actually showing film crew in their house, filming the show; and this is a very non self referring show
02:14:09 <oklopol_> -anyway you probably aren't interested in ad, so that latter comment was kinda redundant
02:14:33 <oklopol_> -prior ones weren't, i think that's a very interesting phenomenon
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02:19:14 <oklopol_> -having been awake for about 3 hours, that doesn't sound very tempting
02:19:43 <oklopol_> -will probably drink a massive cup of coffee watching another ep, then read
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02:47:39 <GregorR> +A friend of mine was trying to suggest gross foods, and one of them he suggested was jalapeño jelly. I thought it would be pretty good. And lo and behold, it exists!
02:48:07 <pikhq> +Jalepe~no jelly? Damn, I want some.
02:48:21 <GregorR> +I can't figure out what to put it on.
02:48:25 <GregorR> +It's clearly not a bread jelly.
02:49:03 <pikhq> +Crackers, tortilla chips?
03:16:01 <GregorR> +It's like ... super-super-super-super-super sweet.
03:16:37 <GregorR> +It tastes like jalapeno, but 10000 times as sweet, and barely spicy at all.
03:16:37 <pikhq> +Needs more capsaicin.
03:26:24 <GregorR> +I like jalapeno, I would like good jalapeno jelly, but there is no effing way that this is good jalapeno jelly.
03:28:45 <GregorR> +Disney is making a movie called Earth
03:28:58 <GregorR> +Don't you think it's a /bit/ pretentious to call a movie "Earth"?
03:30:05 <oklopol_> -i'm not as intelligent as you, you will have to explain why that's pretentious.
03:31:18 <GregorR> +"Earth" is such a vast scope, labeling something as "Earth" (at least, a nature documentary) is like naming a movie "God". Oh really, Disney, this movie will explain the Earth to me? Or is it that you've decided what the "important" parts of Earth are?
03:33:39 <GregorR> +Charlie, get on the duck, the blehblehbleh are right behind you!
03:35:35 <oklopol_> -hmm. okay, i do feel that way about "god" as a movie title. well except if god was main character.
03:36:39 <oklopol_> -i assumed more like a silly cartoon with aliens.
03:37:15 <GregorR> +Nonono, that would just be weirdish.
03:37:31 <GregorR> +That's what makes it pretentious.
03:38:34 <oklopol_> -okay, then i totally agree. well, "totally" doesn't really mean anything nowadays, maybe more like completely.
03:38:45 <pikhq> +"Earth" sounds like some documentary that an alien civilization would make.
03:38:45 <pikhq> +And skip over almost everything.
03:39:16 <oklopol_> -that would be a great documentary
03:39:42 <GregorR> +Here it is: The Earth is a small planet, inhabited primarily by single-celled organisms. There are also some simple multicellular organisms, but none that have evolved true intelligence.
03:40:06 <pikhq> +It would be great, but not for the same reasons it was meant to be enjoyed...
03:40:10 <oklopol_> -yeah i was just thinking maybe they could look at cities at ant level or smaller, and not even consider humans that important
03:40:36 <GregorR> +Now I kind of want to make this :P
03:40:44 <pikhq> +"There's this one that shows promise... Now, if they could just replace those flippers with some more useful limbs."
03:41:16 <oklopol_> -probably it would be biased though, one way or another.
03:41:30 <oklopol_> -probably a bit of an understatement
03:41:47 <GregorR> +But it's supposed to be :P
03:41:52 <GregorR> +This is supposed to be a comedy :P
03:42:16 <oklopol_> -GregorR: i mean biased, considering an outsider documentary the norm. :)
03:43:29 <oklopol_> -i just saw a documentary about how dogs are more intelligent than chimpanzees in many senses, when humans are involved
03:44:12 <oklopol_> -that is, about how they understand humans better; a bit of a biased view of intelligent ofc, but that's the only way this could be relevant, so i had to bend it a bit.
03:44:48 <oklopol_> -i mean i see a documentary every 3 years, hard not to tell people about it!
03:47:31 <GregorR> +"This species is one of the few that survives in nearly every terrestrial environment on Earth, and has also developed a primitive form of verbal communication, used to communicate simple desires. Their term for themselves seems to be "fucker", so we will use this term. Fuckers have complicated mating rituals [cut to guy typing something at a computer] and are one of the few species that have taken advantage of these unique rock formations found on Ear
03:47:32 <GregorR> +th [pictures of skyscrapers]
03:50:57 <oklopol_> -also i would love to see experiments done on humans by aliens where they misunderstand motives completely
03:51:24 <GregorR> +Asimov has a great short story about aliens trying to make humans mate.
03:51:34 <oklopol_> -it would be like reading medieval medicine
03:52:13 <oklopol_> -"there are four type of flow in a human body"
03:53:08 <pikhq> +GregorR: Man, I love that story of his.
03:53:32 <pikhq> +If you would like a laugh, realise that that was printed in... Playboy.
03:54:24 <oklopol_> -including the naked pics of course.
03:58:26 <GregorR> +Bleh, can't find it now, but found http://images.slashdot.org/articles/08/10/20/1426247-1.png :P
04:02:14 <oklopol_> -i've actually been trying to find a braille book
04:02:51 <oklopol_> -assuming that's braille, if there are other standards, i might not be able to tell the difference.
04:04:20 <Slereah> -I only read it for the articles
04:05:43 <GregorR> +Yes, that would be braille :P
04:06:10 <Slereah> -There's other standards than braille
04:06:14 -!- oklopol_ has changed nick to oklopol.
04:06:53 <Slereah> -One of them is pretty much a very simplified version of the latin script
04:07:11 <GregorR> +http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Playboy_and_the_Slime_God
04:07:29 <GregorR> +pikhq: Wrong, it was a /satire/ of a story in Playboy :P
04:09:22 <pikhq> +Thought it was satire of something in the previous issue; my memory fails me.
04:11:58 <GregorR> +"Trying to have a conversation with you is like having a conversation, but with an idiot."
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05:39:45 <GregorR> +(shhhhh, nobody talk while he's here)
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05:54:42 <GregorR> +pikhq, oklopol, anybody else: I think we should seriously get together and write and direct our "Earth" short film.
05:55:33 <GregorR> +We need a few writers coordinating (btw, I vote gibberish with English subtitles), at least one person good at video editing, and a never-ending pile of archive footage which shouldn't be too difficult to find.
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05:56:58 <pikhq> +I vote well-crafted gibberish. And, yes, we should make it.
05:57:30 <GregorR> +Yes, the gibberish will have to be crafted very carefully. Who enjoys constructed languages the most?
05:57:44 <GregorR> +(Making it not gibberish, but anyway :P )
05:57:58 <pikhq> +That could be damned tricky to say.
05:58:11 <pikhq> +Most of us seem to have at least some fondness for conlangs, after all.
05:58:21 <GregorR> +I don't think I'm all that good at it though :P
05:58:50 <GregorR> +Anyway, that seems like an easy way to add endless complication that will stall the project before it starts.
05:59:04 <Sgeo> +Hm, I know someone in Sine who likes linguistic stuff
05:59:49 <pikhq> +I'd mostly recommend picking a set of phonemes and valid ways they can be constructed, and run with it from there.
05:59:50 <Sgeo> +<Sgeo> <person>, some people in fn#esoteric are talking about how they want well-crafted gibberish
05:59:59 <Sgeo> +(<person> of course replaced by the person)
06:00:19 <GregorR> +pikhq: Ideally they'd be utterly non-human-pronounceable phonemes, but lets take what we can get ;)
06:01:11 <pikhq> +Ideally, yes. The best we can do is something similar to how Klingon works, with rare phonemes and completely bizarre uses of them.
06:03:57 <Sgeo> +GregorR, some Siners remember you
06:04:58 <GregorR> +Sgeo: TBH, I don't even remember the address now >_>
06:05:52 <Sgeo> +Any particular reason you stopped coming?
06:09:07 <GregorR> +https://codu.org/wiki/index.php?title=Earth
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06:31:20 * Sgeo lost the Game.
06:31:46 <GregorR> +WTF, I just lost The Game again.
06:31:49 <GregorR> +I had already forgotten about it.
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07:07:09 <pikhq> +By the way, I love saying that in the MST cafeteria.
07:07:34 <pikhq> +It being a somewhat geeky college, I doubt there's anyone there who *doesn't* know of it.
07:09:58 <pikhq> +It's a vaguely interesting meme.
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07:39:11 <bsmntbombdood> +how do you represent a list so that sorted-p takes less than O(n) time?
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07:50:25 <bsmntbombdood> +given a list, you need to be able to verify that it is sorted in sublinear time, and merge it with another list in linear time
07:58:50 <lifthrasiir> -seems impossible... why do you need such one?
08:00:24 <lifthrasiir> -where does verification take place? a part of merging process?
08:02:17 <lifthrasiir> -if sorting node cannot be trusted that seems logical, and as pointed by Gracenotes you can verify it while merging
08:03:02 <lifthrasiir> -(where i mean by sublinear time is not O(n/k) complexity, not something like n-k instructions and so)
08:03:26 <Gracenotes> +just keep track of the last merged item of each list, check either for one list or another list, depending on what you merge in the current iteration
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08:04:29 <Gracenotes> +something like that. For checking sorted in a distributed manner.. you just need to see if A[i] < A[i+1] for 0 < i < n
08:04:45 <Gracenotes> +and partition that task for ranges of i's. If I get what you mean.
08:05:14 * Gracenotes is not sure what the requirements are :)
08:05:42 <Gracenotes> +either way at least n-1 comparisons need to be made to check sortedness. somethin like.
08:06:07 <lifthrasiir> -Gracenotes: but if nodes cannot be trusted, it doesn't work since verification also takes place in the nodes
08:06:49 <Gracenotes> +mm. what do you mean that they can't be trusted?
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08:07:49 <lifthrasiir> -Gracenotes: a node that returns incorrect result. if all node can be trusted you don't have to verify the list :p
08:08:25 <lifthrasiir> -though i'm not sure that bsmntbombdood is in such case
08:12:27 <Gracenotes> +what does a faulty result entail? a timeout, an outright lie..?
08:14:49 <bsmntbombdood> +given a zillion agents who may or may not want to help you, sort this large list as fast as possibly
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11:21:44 <oerjan> +< pikhq> "Earth" sounds like some documentary that an alien civilization would make.
11:22:21 <oerjan> +i recall once i saw this cartoon with a premise a bit like that
11:23:10 <oerjan> +except the aliens thought the _cars_ were the intelligent beings, and humans were parasites on them
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16:24:21 <Slereah> -http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H1wZbIdlSTI
16:24:31 <Slereah> -There's the lisp in lisp one in that video
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17:11:59 <GregorR> +I see there have been /substantial/ changes to the Earth page on codu wiki.
17:12:05 <GregorR> +I'm so glad people are contributing :P
17:14:06 <GregorR> +(Codu wiki requires registration, which pretty effectively kills spam)
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17:51:43 <ehird> -Clog is still dead.
17:51:50 <ehird> -The end of an era?
17:52:30 <ehird> -well, tunes.org is up, but the TUNES people are remarkably competent.
17:53:10 <ais523> +clog /and/ cmeme are down?
17:53:16 <ais523> +hey, this means we can post on rafb again
17:53:28 <ehird> -http://normish.org/ihope/public_logs/%23esoteric.log
17:53:51 <ehird> -& if clog isn't back very soon I'll set up my own bot
17:53:55 <ais523> +that was pretty cleverly noticed by you
17:54:00 <ehird> -no, ihope noticed it
17:54:02 <ehird> -by pointing it out
17:54:05 <ehird> -when I said clog was down yesterday
17:54:14 <GregorR> +My color matcher data gatherer is finally back up.
17:54:27 <GregorR> +I moved it to codu.org (whyTF did I have it hosted on my home computer anyway :P )
17:54:42 <ehird> -yeah, well, so's your face
17:55:29 <ehird> -on the topic of awesome terrible food combinations; chocolate covered bacon
17:55:49 <ehird> -22:31 < GregorR> "Earth" is such a vast scope, labeling something as "Earth" (at least, a nature documentary) is like naming a movie "God". Oh really, Disney, this movie will explain the Earth to me? Or is it that you've decided what the "important" parts of Earth are?
17:56:04 <ehird> -GregorR: what about Cosmos
17:56:12 <ehird> -what does that say about carl sagan's ego
17:57:01 <ehird> -http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Earth_(disambiguation)#Film
17:57:46 <ehird> -22:38 < pikhq> "Earth" sounds like some documentary that an alien civilization would make.
17:57:46 <ehird> -22:38 < pikhq> And skip over almost everything.
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18:04:08 <ehird> -http://codu.org/wiki/index.php?title=Earth ← GregorR: I would edit if I didn't have to register
18:04:45 <ehird> -02:39 < bsmntbombdood> how do you represent a list so that sorted-p takes less than O(n) time?
18:07:47 <ais523> +ehird: by sorting it during insert
18:07:59 <ehird> -i didn't say it :P
18:08:05 <ais523> +ofc, that makes insert O(n)
18:08:12 <ais523> +you can't even use an n log n sort overall
18:08:22 <ais523> +because that would require doing /something/ when you retrieved the list
18:08:23 <oklopol> -ais523: how woulf sorted-p go then?
18:08:33 <ais523> +oklopol: it would be the identity function
18:08:45 <ais523> +although arguably, even that's O(n) for a list
18:09:12 <oklopol> -i think you're missing the point here, this is more like a zero-knowledge proof
18:09:25 <oklopol> -where zero-knowledge means you only need to check a constant amount of things
18:09:32 <oklopol> -if i'm not missing the point, that is.
18:09:57 <oklopol> -read bsmntbombdood's explanation of why he's doing this
18:10:22 <ais523> +you can do merge-sort in a distributed way, I suppose,
18:12:05 <oklopol> -anyway i don't know anything about this kinda stuff, so can't really contribute at all, but there usually is a way to do pretty much anything like this
18:13:35 <ehird> -18:08 ais523: because that would require doing /something/ when you retrieved the list
18:13:39 <ehird> -as long as it's <O(n)
18:13:48 <oklopol> -and you can do pretty much any sort in a distributed way
18:14:12 <oklopol> -well okay actually quick and merge, can't see how to do others
18:15:08 <ais523> +stooge-sort would distribute well
18:15:11 <ais523> +but it's insanely slow
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18:15:47 <ais523> +and you could distribute treesort an entirely different way
18:16:38 <ais523> +oklopol: insert items in a binary tree, take them back out again in order
18:16:51 <ais523> +it's O(n log n) average case, but worse in worst-case
18:20:03 <ehird> -n log n average case is fine, tho
18:20:38 <ais523> +depends on the application
18:20:45 <ais523> +a bad worst case can be a security risk
18:20:52 <ais523> +that's why Perl randomizes its hashing algorithm nowadays, for instance
18:21:01 <ehird> -what's the worse-cas
18:22:16 <ehird> -09:52:02 <ais523> and void is the right data type, brkpos is literally 0 bytes long
18:22:16 <ehird> -09:52:39 <ais523> by the way comp.lang.c told me that I was talking nonsense
18:23:26 <ais523> +oh well, extern void works on gcc-bf
18:23:38 <ehird> -why is it nonsense?
18:23:38 <ais523> +which is the only compiler which it makes any sense to use to compile the gcc-bf internal libraries
18:23:52 <ais523> +I thought "extern void var;" was legal C
18:24:06 <oklopol> -what would you use that for?
18:24:11 <ais523> +oklopol: to get its address, of course!
18:24:26 <oklopol> -and what would that be useful for?
18:24:37 <oklopol> -it could be allocated anywhere.
18:24:44 <oklopol> -you'll just get a random number
18:24:45 <ais523> +"void var;" isn't legal C, though, so the variable would have to be given its address from elsewhere
18:24:55 <ais523> +and in gcc-bf, the address of __brkpos is very important
18:25:14 <ais523> +as __brkpos is the end of the static data and the start of the heap
18:25:28 <ais523> +but it's 0 bytes long, the boundary between static data and heap doesn't take up any bytes in itself
18:25:37 <oklopol> -and why isn't it a pointer?
18:26:05 <ais523> +but because it's handled by the linker
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18:26:13 <ais523> +the linker handles the addresses of things, not their values
18:26:19 <oklopol> -anyway ehird clearly the worst case is O(n^2), consider an already sorted list for one
18:26:20 <ais523> +so it handles the address of __brkpos
18:26:27 <ais523> +not the value of a pointer
18:27:03 <ehird> -ais523: why not have (void *), pointing to the first element of the heap
18:27:54 <ehird> -http://nsl.com/k/t.k ← Relational database.
18:28:36 <ais523> +ehird: the linker doesn't manipulate the values of things, only their addresses
18:36:07 <GregorR> +ehird: Fine, I unprotected Earth.
18:36:12 <GregorR> +ehird: Spam it up if you'd like :P
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19:06:28 <ehird> -Deewiant: yer graphics card done got obsoleted.
19:06:37 <AnMaster> +ais523, you remember I mentioned IftU takes place after UtBS? Well not only after but several _dwarf_ generations after even.
19:06:50 <AnMaster> +and I'm close to the end in it now. :)
19:07:12 <AnMaster> +(summary so far: great story, great battles, but need a bit more work with the graphics)
19:07:13 <Deewiant> +ehird: Well of course, it's like 6 months old :-P
19:07:35 <ehird> -Deewiant: Yeah, and I'm buying a card that's like a YEAR OLD.
19:08:58 <ehird> -wow, spcr are reviewing the new 4890
19:09:10 <ehird> -I'm kind of doubting they can get it quiet...
19:10:56 <ehird> -"During testing, temperatures stayed well within reasonable levels — at full load, the GPU core temperature measured only 75°C"
19:11:08 <ehird> -This just in: 75C is well within reasonable levels.
19:11:12 <ais523> +that's above hard drive death temperature
19:11:29 <Deewiant> +I prefer staying below 70 myself, though.
19:11:31 <ehird> -i want a GPU that melts if you push it too far
19:11:34 <ehird> -it'd be HARDCORE.
19:11:42 <Deewiant> +Disconnect the fans and you're done
19:11:53 <ehird> -Deewiant: what if I don't have any fans
19:11:56 <Deewiant> +Do it with your CPU too, for good measure
19:12:07 <ais523> +meh, a programming language where variables overheat if you use them too much is more fun
19:12:16 <ais523> +although in VHDL, that's generally handled by the compilers nowadays
19:12:24 <ehird> -and freeze if you don't use them enough
19:12:45 <ais523> +VHDL cares about the number of mentions in the program of the variable
19:12:47 <ehird> -"These recordings were made with a high resolution, lab quality, digital recording system inside SPCR's own 11 dBA ambient anechoic chamber"
19:13:00 <ehird> -Quite frankly, I doubt you need an anechoic chamber to distinguish this card's noise.
19:13:05 <ais523> +it's a weird language, it mostly doesn't have loops
19:13:29 <ais523> +11 dBA ambient is pretty high for an anechoic chamber!
19:13:54 <ehird> -ais523: they couldn't afford a full one
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19:13:57 <ehird> -so they did the best they could
19:14:14 <ehird> -it's just a room in a house with the windows all bordered up and a bunch of specially designed foam on the walls
19:14:16 <AnMaster> +GPU is around 40-47 here (depending on load, but independent of room temperature), CPU is around 29-40 (depending on load and room temperature)
19:14:29 <AnMaster> +harddrives 20-31 depending on room temp
19:14:41 <AnMaster> +75 sounds way too much even for GPU to me
19:14:52 <ehird> -ais523: if they ever needed to buy a full one I imagine they could close down as silent perfection has been achieved ;-)
19:14:58 <ehird> -AnMaster: that's high-end gfx cardsfor you
19:15:32 <ais523> +ehird: but 11 dbA is pretty high, IIRC humans can talk more quietly than that if they try hard
19:15:44 <AnMaster> +ehird, well mine isn't too bad. I mean my old geforce 3 I could understand you would have said that about. But my current geforce 7600 is not that bad.
19:15:50 <ehird> -ais523: er, I doubt that
19:16:05 <ehird> -AnMaster: how much did it cost
19:16:27 <Deewiant> +How can I pull temperature readings out of Linux?
19:16:33 <ehird> -Deewiant: just touch your hw
19:16:45 <ais523> +according to Wikipedia, 10 dB audio volume = volume of human breathing normally
19:17:05 <Deewiant> +ehird: That's not out of Linux
19:17:08 <ehird> -dbA is dB + weighting
19:17:21 <ais523> +normally the last letter states what it's relative to
19:17:22 <AnMaster> +ehird, don't remember. It was about 1.5 years ago I bought it
19:17:30 <ehird> -ais523: A B or C ;-)
19:17:32 <ehird> -AnMaster: roughly?
19:17:33 <ais523> +so A would = relative to audio reference volume
19:17:42 <Deewiant> +http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/A-weighted
19:18:01 <AnMaster> +ehird, sorry, don't remember at all
19:18:21 <ehird> -AnMaster: if you don't gibber and get a feeling of faint regret at the cost it's probably not high-end :-P
19:20:17 <ehird> -mushkin ram is so expensive
19:20:32 <ais523> +ehird: according to the Wikipedia article Deewiant linked, A-weighting isn't meant to change the average value
19:20:50 <ais523> +it just changes it the measurement from measuring the physical reality to what humans hear
19:21:02 <Deewiant> +ehird: 146 € for 4 times 2 gigabytes
19:21:06 <ais523> +so I conclude that approximately, 11 dBa ~= 11 dB ~= volume of a human breathing normally
19:21:29 <ehird> -Deewiant: And that's DDR3?
19:21:33 <AnMaster> +it isn't plug-and-play though because sensors are not
19:21:52 <Deewiant> +ehird: It's not Mushkin that's expensive, it's DDR3 that is. :-P
19:21:53 <ehird> -Also, I'm going for 12GB; the odder multiplications seem to cost more.
19:21:57 <ehird> -Deewiant: Well, duh.
19:22:10 <Deewiant> +ehird: Exactly, duh, so you were complaining about the wrong thing.
19:22:13 <ehird> -But DDR3-RAM-that-is-from-Mushkin is expensive :-P
19:22:25 <ehird> -"mushkin ram is so expensive": not actually false, just misleading.
19:22:45 <AnMaster> +Deewiant, so you will need to 1) ensure computer is not an old thinkpad where lm_sensors will refuse to run because it can brick the hardware 2) install lm_sensors and run sensors-detect
19:22:51 <AnMaster> +it will scan computer for sensors
19:23:00 <ehird> -an old thinkpad would probably not be running a radeon 4870
19:23:03 <AnMaster> +then use "sensors" (no quotes) to probe them
19:23:22 <ehird> -it wouldn't even fit!
19:23:26 <Deewiant> +ehird: You might as well say "stuff is so expensive" and then say that you're actually talking about specifically Mushkin DDR3 RAM
19:23:30 <ais523> +why would a temperature sensor brick hardware?
19:23:35 <ehird> -Deewiant: Stuff is so expensive
19:23:42 <ehird> -I'm talking specifically about cabbages
19:23:53 <AnMaster> +ais523, eeprom on same bus whuch doesn't conform to the spec of the bus
19:23:59 <ais523> +also, munchkin ram would be more fun
19:24:14 <ehird> -http://www.munchkin.com/
19:24:14 <ais523> +AnMaster: I2C using a non-allocated address?
19:24:17 <ehird> -YOUR BABY'S FIRST RAM
19:24:23 <AnMaster> +ais523, don't remember details
19:24:27 <ais523> +munchkin's a roleplaying term
19:24:33 <Deewiant> +AnMaster: I guess I should build hardware monitoring support into my kernel first :-P
19:24:42 <ehird> -ais523: baby ram is more fun
19:24:56 <ais523> +referring to someone who tries to play a story-telling game like a high-powered FPS player
19:25:02 <AnMaster> +Deewiant, as well as the i2c bus thingy
19:25:19 <fizzie> Also sensors-detect just detects the chips; some motherboard use same hw-monitoring chips but with resistors wired differently, so the temperature and/or voltage measurements will be bogus. Around here the lm-sensors example .conf file had a couple of variants available.
19:25:23 <ehird> -ais523: I shoot my BFG.
19:25:49 <AnMaster> +Deewiant, the right bus driver too? That bit you can check with lspci
19:26:14 <AnMaster> +right, then just enable all the sensors as modules
19:26:27 <ehird> -eurgh, setting up ext3 properly aligned on an ssd is apparently hard
19:26:29 <Deewiant> +sensors-detect is apparently stupid and says 'FATAL: Module i2c_i801 not found'
19:26:33 <Deewiant> +Even though it's built in to the kernel
19:26:47 <AnMaster> +Deewiant, never had issues with it being compiled in
19:27:03 <Deewiant> +Using driver `i2c-i801' for device 0000:00:1f.3: Intel ICH10
19:27:03 <Deewiant> +FATAL: Module i2c_i801 not found.
19:27:03 <Deewiant> +Failed to load module i2c-i801.
19:27:22 <AnMaster> +Deewiant, don't remember seeing "fatal" ever there
19:27:34 <fizzie> I did get >100 degree CPU temperatures on one box, I strongly suspect the sensors configuration was a bit mismatching. Although being able to boil water on the CPU would be nice. I wonder if people have built combined coffee-machine/computers like that.
19:27:54 <ais523> +fizzie: you've started channeling zzo38
19:27:57 <ais523> +in your sentence structure
19:28:09 <ehird> -not enough redundancy
19:28:21 <ais523> +it's not quite the same style, but it is in terms of sentence structure
19:28:25 <AnMaster> +fizzie, if your system has IMPI (spelling?) it tends to be a better way to read sensors
19:28:34 <ehird> -Some people like putting redundancy into their sentences like zzo38. But some others might not like putting redundancy in their sentences. You could set the redundancy option on or off if you want it or not.
19:28:47 <AnMaster> +fizzie, but I only ever seen that on servers.
19:28:49 <ehird> -↑ Uncanny valley of zzo38 sentence structure.
19:28:59 <fizzie> The current ones report plausible results, anyway; it was an old-oldy pentium-MMX box.
19:29:16 <ais523> +ehird: wow, that was scary
19:29:25 <ais523> +it's fine when zzo38 does it, but it's pretty weird seeing it from anyone else
19:30:00 <AnMaster> +ais523, I have seen other people do it before. Not in this channel though.
19:32:40 <Deewiant> +Welp, having booted into a new kernel sensors can now tell me my CPU temp (only)
19:32:55 <AnMaster> +ehird, Hm do you think the redundancy is there to handle package loss?
19:33:26 <ehird> -Deewiant: is it 7 billion C
19:33:56 <AnMaster> +ehird, if so I would recommend using a checksum instead.(e41403c80cb6fd88ddafb5abc78804a4208e088e6fe7b85c316c25721939edc7f9fea9ba613bc13c9f3dfb507e99f839350cf1ab0d5b0093098831215229b5a5)
19:34:11 <pikhq> +Such insanely hot systems...
19:34:13 <ais523> +AnMaster: all your IRC comments should have a checksum at the end
19:34:16 <pikhq> +Mine runs at around 40C.
19:34:20 <ais523> +but the checksum should be of the whole thing, including the checksum
19:34:29 <ehird> -ais523: fixed-point :-D
19:34:47 <ais523> +there was an IOCCC entry that modified files to have a checksum of the whole thing including the checksum
19:34:50 <ehird> -pikhq: I'm going to power my computer by putting a wormhole to the Sun in there.
19:35:07 <ehird> -pikhq: I'll cool it with a giant heatsink and a fan.
19:35:09 <ais523> +it created a random checksum first (CRC32), then modified the rest of the file to fit the checksum in question
19:35:12 <ais523> +by brute-forcing, IIRC
19:35:16 <AnMaster> +ais523, actually wouldn't be too hard if I used crc I guess
19:35:41 <AnMaster> +or md5 if I had a playstation cluster
19:35:45 <ais523> +CRC doesn't need brute-forcing though I don't think, I'm pretty certain it isn't cryptographically secure (nor is it meant to be)
19:36:13 <ehird> -AnMaster: playstation3s are just used because they have a powerful GPU, iirc
19:36:19 <ehird> -so just buy a bunch of 4890s
19:36:31 <ehird> -heck, there might be a 4890 X2 sometime
19:36:35 <ehird> -pick up a bunch of them
19:36:41 <pikhq> +ehird: Impressive. Probably also provide heating for your city, too.
19:36:50 <pikhq> +ehird: Powerful CPU as well.
19:37:00 <ehird> -pikhq: wow, that's one power-hungry city :P
19:37:08 <AnMaster> +ehird, I thought it was because of the cell processors rather
19:37:24 <ehird> -is the city surrounded by a forcefield?
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19:38:32 <ais523> +I have a wormhole to the sun, but unfortunately it refuses to transfer any energy
19:38:34 <oerjan> +NO CLOG TODAY, OUR BOT HAS GONE AWAAAAY
19:38:38 <ais523> +it's more or less useless
19:38:45 <ais523> +all that I can send through there are worms...
19:38:47 <oerjan> +ais523: i think that may be ... fortunate
19:38:48 <ehird> -oerjan: ihope is keeping us along
19:38:53 <ehird> -ais523: instantrimshot
19:38:57 <pikhq> +Worms are matter, man!
19:38:58 <ais523> +and there are no worms in the sun, apart from ones I put there, so they never come back
19:39:03 <pikhq> +Just very small amounts.
19:39:10 <ais523> +pikhq: worms are an exception from the normal rules
19:39:23 <ehird> -ais523: you're a serial worm-murderer
19:39:31 <ehird> -or... are they sun-resistent worms?
19:39:34 <ehird> -that would be awesome
19:39:36 <ais523> +you have to kill 3 to be considered a serial killer IIRC
19:39:50 <pikhq> +"Worm heliodurans", anyone?
19:39:52 <ehird> -3? I would have expected more.
19:40:14 <oerjan> +well what _are_ you going to do if a sun-evolved plasma worm crawls out in the other direction?
19:40:34 <ais523> +oerjan: I haven't thought much about it
19:40:35 <ehird> -"A serial killer is a person who murders usually three or more people[note 1][1][2] over a period of more than 30 days with a "cooling off" period between each murder"
19:40:38 <ehird> -MURDERING IS HOT WORK!
19:42:09 <pikhq> +I suggest you get a magnetic containment facility.
19:42:18 <pikhq> +Such as, say, a fusion reactor.
19:42:28 <ehird> -ais523: I think the SCP foundation may want to look at your wormhole
19:42:32 <AnMaster> +<ehird> or... are they sun-resistent worms? <-- that must be some very protective sun cream
19:42:46 <pikhq> +Then, if a plasma worm comes out, you can power your reactor for free.
19:43:00 <pikhq> +Welcome to the future of power generation: just add worms.
19:43:18 <ehird> -AnMaster: SPF googol
19:43:52 <ehird> -I think googol would be very sufficient, AnMaster.
19:43:54 <ehird> -It's a big number.
19:44:21 <AnMaster> +as for murdering being hot work... get a better heatsink then
19:44:34 <ehird> -i want a GPU that murders people for power.
19:44:41 <AnMaster> +ehird, it isn't enough if it isn't off the scale ;P
19:45:20 <pikhq> +SPF G would work a bit better.
19:45:33 <oerjan> +NOBODY LIKES ME, EVERYBODY HATES ME, THINK I'LL GO EAT WORM PLASMAA
19:45:48 <AnMaster> +oerjan, why do you think nobody likes you?
19:46:12 <ehird> -WHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSSHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH
19:46:34 <AnMaster> +oerjan, I would appreciate it if you would continue.
19:46:46 <ehird> -pikhq: G=G1 or G64?
19:47:00 <oerjan> +ehird: sun storm i guess
19:47:21 <AnMaster> +oerjan, What makes you believe sun storm you guess?
19:47:24 <pikhq> +Either one, I guess. They're both absurdly large.
19:48:01 <AnMaster> +oerjan, Can you elaborate on that?
19:48:21 <oerjan> +SORRY FOR THE ERRONEOUD WHOOSH, EVERYONE
19:48:24 <AnMaster> +oerjan, Maybe your plans have something to do with this.
19:48:50 <AnMaster> +oerjan, sorry for feeding your input to M-x doctor and pasting the results back
19:49:18 <oerjan> +but not today, perhaps
19:50:04 <AnMaster> +oerjan, why so agitated? Maybe you need some more M-x doctor
19:50:34 <ehird> -"Why do you say what makes I believe what do you think?" -- The psychotherapist feedback loop
19:50:56 <AnMaster> +ehird, yeah such things happen, it is far from perfect
19:50:58 <oerjan> +ehird: i don't think it's entirely deterministic
19:51:09 <ehird> -"Maybe your life have something to do with this."
19:51:22 <AnMaster> +I have seen "I ask the questions here!" or something like that
19:51:32 <AnMaster> +when I tried to talk to it like it talked to me
19:51:39 <ehird> -I ran two doctors
19:51:43 <ehird> -and fed one's input into another
19:51:57 <AnMaster> +ehird, you need some input to start them off iirc?
19:51:59 <oerjan> +AnMaster: i thought that was more the mad scientist guy </mezzacotta>
19:52:41 <oerjan> +they're lazily evaluated doctors
19:53:04 <AnMaster> +oerjan, Do you know any taxidermist who specialises in mathematicians?
19:53:39 <ehird> -anyone know isps?
19:53:39 <oerjan> +that actually sounds like a plausible serial killer
19:53:53 <AnMaster> +oerjan, http://www.mezzacotta.net/archive.php?date=1748-04-04
19:53:54 <ais523> +AnMaster: mezzacotta reference?
19:53:57 <ehird> -oerjan: his house is designed to the golden ratio
19:54:36 <oerjan> +AnMaster: of course i know that, it was one of the first hall in fames
19:55:13 <ais523> +mezzacotta seems to have fake adverts nowadays
19:55:15 <AnMaster> +rather odd that it did result in so many jokes
19:55:25 <ehird> -ais523: it always has.
19:55:25 <oerjan> +ais523: it's had for a while
19:55:28 <AnMaster> +ais523, yes, since a month or two I think?
19:55:29 <ais523> +TETRISK seems like quite an interesting concept for a game...
19:55:49 <AnMaster> +ehird, http://www.mezzacotta.net/?p=188
19:55:53 <oerjan> +ehird: not quite the start
19:56:59 <oerjan> +i guess this proves that ads do cause users to leave in droves
19:59:05 <ais523> +even more strangely, I haven't looked at mezzacotta for months, but pretty much all the hall of fame list I'd seen before
19:59:50 <oerjan> +ah, new mezzacotta webcomic launched
20:00:06 <lifthrasiir> -AnMaster: FYI, PyFunge 0.5-rc1 is released today. :p
20:00:10 <oerjan> +ais523: that's what i was referring to, it stopped updating
20:01:13 <AnMaster> +<oerjan> ah, new mezzacotta webcomic launched <-- wut
20:01:15 <oerjan> +ais523: not enough voters to bring a new comic up to the minimum 50
20:01:32 <oerjan> +AnMaster: see the blog
20:02:06 <ais523> +"Ha, we are so awesome - we have pulled off the greatest April Fool’s Day stunt ever. We very quietly removed every mezzacotta comic and replaced the entire archive with completely new material! Yes, that’s over 3,652,425,000,000,000 comics. Every single one of them removed and replaced with an entirely new, original, never-before-seen comic."
20:02:12 <ehird> -http://www.mezzacotta.net/?p=201
20:02:17 <ehird> -ais523: you beat me!
20:02:21 <AnMaster> +oerjan, about hall of fame stopped updating?
20:02:49 <oerjan> +AnMaster: no, about the new webcomic
20:03:11 <oerjan> +there was something about the hall of fame in the forum once
20:05:18 <ehird> -anyone know isps?
20:05:24 <ehird> -their workageosity
20:06:07 <ehird> -http://www.gifbin.com/bin/1233008904_17d9a1b.gif AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA
20:07:58 <ehird> -FAIL. You said "FAIL."
20:08:16 <M0ny> -FAIL. You said "FAIL. You said "FAIL.""
20:08:41 <lament> +FAIL. You said "You said."
20:08:57 <ehird> -FAIL. You said "FAIL. You said "
20:09:21 <lament> +FAIL. You said "FAIL. You said "
20:09:53 <ehird> -FAIL. You said "FAIL. You said "FAIL. You said "FAIL. You said "Segmentation fault: stack overflow
20:09:58 <oerjan> +^ul ((FAIL. You said ")S:^):^
20:09:58 <fungot> -FAIL. You said "FAIL. You said "FAIL. You said "FAIL. You said "FAIL. You said "FAIL. You said "FAIL. You said "FAIL. You said "FAIL. You said "FAIL. You said "FAIL. You said "FAIL. You said "FAIL. You said "FAIL. You said "FAIL. You said "FAIL. You said "FAIL. You said "FAIL. You said "FAIL. You said "FAIL. You said "FAIL ...too much output!
20:10:31 <ehird> -FAIL. You said "is this some sort of meme?"
20:10:33 <AnMaster> +that is the only explanation left.
20:10:41 <ais523> +AnMaster: things can memise very quickly, sometimes
20:11:09 <oerjan> +AnMaster: don't worry, 96.7% of memes die within a week
20:11:16 <AnMaster> +ais523, true, but this one doesn't make much sense.
20:11:19 -!- jix_ has quit ("...").
20:11:23 <ehird> -FAIL. You failed.
20:11:26 <lament> +quick, can somebody calculate this for me
20:11:31 -!- jix has joined.
20:12:02 <AnMaster> +oerjan, While some survive for years. Or kind of die but still live on. AYB for example.
20:12:18 <ehird> -AYB is not living.
20:12:35 <AnMaster> +ehird, yeah more like undead refusing to let go.
20:12:48 <oerjan> +<AYB> ALL YOUR BRAINS BELONG TO US...
20:12:50 <AnMaster> +I still hear references to all your base sometimes
20:13:54 <oerjan> +YOU HAVE NO CHANCE TO SURV BRAINS...
20:14:04 <lament> +memememememememememememememememememememememememememememememememe
20:14:07 <ehird> -YOU HAVE TO CHANCE TO MEME
20:14:35 <oerjan> +ehird: i'm just trying to continue the zombie joke
20:14:58 <AnMaster> +zombie, that is one meme that hangs around forever too
20:17:40 <oerjan> +12:56 < ehird> GregorR: what about Cosmos
20:17:40 <oerjan> +12:56 < ehird> what does that say about carl sagan's ego
20:17:51 <oerjan> +One ego was not enough for sagan
20:18:03 <AnMaster> +ais523, I wonder if syntax highlighting WML would be hard...
20:18:10 <oerjan> +He had to have b*hit by falling anvil*
20:19:06 <AnMaster> +ehird, wesnoth scripting language.
20:19:38 <ehird> -https://gna.org/bugs/?13104
20:19:42 <ehird> -HOW STEREOTYPICAL
20:20:52 <bsmntbombdood> +well distributed merge sort can still be verified in overall O(n log n) time
20:20:57 <AnMaster> +ehird, they do use lua nowdays iirc
20:36:56 <ehird> -ais523: does trolltalk still exist?
20:37:35 <ehird> -thought you'd know
20:37:58 <ehird> -http://slashdot.org/comments.pl?sid=20721
20:38:13 <ehird> -Wait, they're just all hidden
20:38:25 <ehird> -Just the crapflood.
20:38:43 <ehird> -I'm surprised the flooder isn't bored.
20:39:03 <ais523> +obvious trolls are generally moderated down to -1
20:39:21 <ehird> -Trolltalk was an SID-without-assigned-article.
20:39:34 <ehird> -It was, pretty much, the most trollish part of Slashdot.
20:39:42 <ehird> -Think it started in 2000 or so
20:39:53 <ehird> -Well, the assigned article is "http://goatse.cx/"
20:40:03 <ehird> -I wonder how it was created?
20:41:16 <ais523> +either by a troll exploiting a bug, or something deliberate by the editors, most likely
20:41:37 <ais523> +if commenting wasn't automatically closed down after a while, they must have deliberately changed the code
20:41:45 <ehird> -ais523: I highly doubt it was a deliberate editor thang; a bug would be possible, but I don't think the code would have functionality to point a discussion to a non-article page -- that seems superfluous.
20:41:52 <ehird> -Wait, didn't slashdot used to let you create your own SIDs?
20:41:57 <ehird> -I seem to remember it did.
20:44:04 <ehird> -Meanwhile, Leenus Torvaltyos.
20:49:58 <comex> +if anyone's interested in something i've been doing
20:50:19 <comex> +there is a certain decompression function where the output buffer is lower in memory than the input buffer, but they are both aligned
20:50:56 <comex> +however, due to a size mismatch you can overflow the output buffer
20:51:11 <comex> +but if you just use normal compressed data, the output will overwrite the input and it fucks up
20:51:22 <oerjan> +when you decompress, i would sincerely hope there's a size mismatch
20:54:05 <ais523> +comex: are you trying to find an input which decompresses properly with that function?
20:54:07 <comex> +the size allocated is a different field than the size used for decompression
20:54:28 <comex> +I did find one (although it's probably suboptimal)
20:55:15 <comex> +because of the alignment, if you have some compressed stuff that decompresses to multiple copies of itself, it will only ever overwrite input with the same thing
20:55:26 <comex> +and whose length is an even 16 or whatever
20:57:40 * ehird continues mulling.
21:01:22 <ehird> -ais523: how's gcc-bf?
21:01:41 <ais523> +ehird: it produces non-working programs
21:01:44 <ais523> +most of the main elements are there
21:01:49 <ehird> -when will it work
21:01:49 <ais523> +but what I have written needs a lot of bugfixing
21:01:55 <ais523> +and various things haven't
21:02:01 <ais523> +and maybe a few weeks after I start working on it again
21:02:04 <ais523> +which isn't right now
21:04:03 <GregorR> +Sh! You'll wake the Oomoo!
21:05:35 <ehird> -ais523: could you share the unfinished src? :)
21:05:51 <ais523> +ehird: I have done, I think
21:05:57 <ehird> -yes. On eso-std.org.
21:05:59 <ais523> +I'm working on something else right now, but I'll paste it for you later
21:06:08 <ehird> -paste? isn't it a tarball
21:09:13 <ehird> -11:11:03 <ais523> ah yes, mine are 32 bits
21:09:13 <ehird> -11:11:11 <ais523> actually they're 26 bits
21:09:14 <ehird> -11:11:16 <ais523> but padded to 32 for sanity reasons
21:10:56 <ais523> +segmented architecture
21:11:01 <ehird> -"Raise your hand if you have iTunes ...
21:11:01 <ehird> -Raise your hand if you have a FireWire port ...
21:11:02 <ehird> -Raise your hand if you have both ...
21:11:03 <ais523> +there are 4 segments, each of which has a 24-bit address
21:11:04 <ehird> -Raise your hand if you have $400 to spend on a cute Apple device ...
21:11:06 <ehird> -There is Apple's market. Pretty slim, eh? I don't see many sales in the future of iPod. "
21:12:40 <pikhq> +Slashdot is amazingly bad at predicting stuff. ;)
21:13:59 <GregorR> +Slashdot is amazingly bad.
21:14:10 <pikhq> +No, it's a great time sink.
21:14:13 <GregorR> +No, my three periods do not constitute an ellipses :P
21:15:00 <GregorR> +I always forget the pluralization of ellips{i,e}s.
21:17:08 <Deewiant> +http://www.eff.org/deeplinks/2009/04/boston-college-prompt-commands-are-suspicious
21:17:45 * pikhq beats BC with a cluebat.
21:17:47 <GregorR> +Stay away from the CS department.
21:18:18 <ehird> -I HATE HUMANITY ;_;
21:18:51 <ais523> +oh dear, that's awful
21:19:31 <ehird> -ais523: you're gay.
21:19:34 * ehird 's computer is taken away
21:20:01 <ehird> -THE "TERMINAL.APP" PROGRAM, USED TO CONTROL THE INNER COMPUTER'S OPERATING SYSTEM PARAMETERS, WAS FOUND PLACED FOR EASY ACCESS ON HIS APPLICATION DOCK!
21:20:03 <ais523> +there are plenty of GUI "hacking" tools, and even more legitimate command-line programs
21:20:07 <GregorR> +<unrelated party> other unrelated party: You're gay.
21:20:13 <GregorR> +<ehird> ais523: I speak C.
21:20:18 <GregorR> +ehird's computer is taken away.
21:20:19 <ehird> -IT IS SUSPECTED HE USED THIS PROGRAM FOR HACKING INTO PEOPLE'S STEREOS
21:20:26 <ehird> -GregorR: wow, you're right
21:20:30 <ehird> -I just reread the first paragraph
21:22:00 <pikhq> +There's also plenty of "hacking" tools with perfectly legitimate uses...
21:22:54 <ais523> +last week I went into the computer lab
21:22:59 <ais523> +and found one of the lecturers hacking into the network
21:23:29 <ais523> +she said that she had a lab in there where she was going to teach students about it, and she wanted to check that wireshark was working properly
21:23:50 <ehird> -how can you hack with wireshark...
21:24:00 <ais523> +it's all about the packet sniffing
21:24:18 <ais523> +anyway, the network admins where we are consider unplugging a network cable to be hacking
21:24:43 <ehird> -y#tkkkt ← what does this befunge98 code do?
21:24:45 <pikhq> +God, they'd hate the packet sniffing I've done for debugging my network configuration.
21:25:00 <ais523> +ehird: you wouldn't want to know
21:25:06 <ehird> -ais523: oh but I do
21:25:08 <ais523> +it basically generates a load of threads in a loop
21:25:08 -!- Hiato has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)).
21:25:12 <Deewiant> +ehird: Depends on the interpreter
21:25:13 <ais523> +it's sort-of a forkbomb
21:25:16 <ehird> -ais523: how boring
21:25:17 <pikhq> +(I discovered that the campus network has a seperate VLAN going over all the cables where the routing information is transmitted)
21:25:21 <ais523> +the exact details are based on the interpreter
21:25:27 <ais523> +because y is a get-system-information command
21:25:34 <Deewiant> +But of course it runs forever because it has no @ or q
21:25:34 <pikhq> +I could probably make a royal mess of their routing tables if I wanted to.
21:25:36 <ais523> +that fills the stack with interp-specific information
21:25:47 <ehird> -but what do # t and k do :-P
21:25:49 <ais523> +so yes, it runs forever with a large but finite number of threads
21:25:52 <ais523> +or possibly no threads
21:25:54 <Deewiant> +ais523: I was thinking more of the fact that kk is handled quite differently
21:26:11 <Deewiant> +ehird: # - jumps over next instruction, t - fork, k - iterate over next instruction
21:26:17 <ais523> +also, I think the third t is never used, is it/
21:26:21 <ais523> +nothing makes the IP go back to the rest
21:26:25 <ehird> -Deewiant: so 5kX does X 5 times?
21:26:39 <ehird> -what are the last 3 to 4 pushes of y?
21:26:53 <Deewiant> +The top one is a flags cell in the range 0-31
21:27:02 <ehird> -also, surely '#t' is = ''?
21:27:10 <ehird> -anyway, how does t fork?
21:27:14 <ehird> -what do they each do?
21:27:22 <ais523> +Deewiant: ah, I didn't realise
21:27:27 <ais523> +I thought it was just 1/0 on the stack
21:27:43 <ais523> +* IP number/0 on the stack
21:27:54 <ais523> +that's a very forkbomb, anyway
21:28:14 <Deewiant> +Any program containing a t and no @ or q is quite a forkbomb
21:28:18 <ehird> -we iterate <top> times, doing: iterate <top> times, iterating: <top> times, to fork, (loop in parent), child: which then iterates <top> times, iterates <top> times, iterates <top> times fork, etc etc etc
21:28:23 <Deewiant> +A one-liner is indeed a very forkbomb
21:29:55 <ehird> -I have no /dev/full
21:32:41 <ehird> -12:17:09 <AnMaster> ais523, also it was over a month since I responded to him and he didn't reply
21:32:41 <ehird> -12:17:15 <AnMaster> "what an arse" is my feeling
21:32:55 <ehird> -err... why is AnMaster calling C.L.C. an arse?
21:32:59 <ehird> -I can't even figure it out from context
21:33:08 <ehird> -CLC didn't respond to a question by AnMaster on a bug report CLC commented on
21:33:19 <ehird> -must be more than that; I doubt even AnMaster's stupid enough to call someone an arse over that
21:33:21 <ais523> +was it a bug report CLC was watching?
21:33:25 <ehird> -http://aur.archlinux.org/packages.php?ID=18937
21:33:53 <ais523> +entirely possible that CLC just didn't see the reply
21:34:05 <ehird> -or wasn't looking
21:34:06 <ais523> +also, the download server did change, IIRC
21:34:13 <ais523> +so Claudio's concern was entirely valid
21:34:17 <ehird> -12:20:37 <AnMaster> ais523, also why didn't he bother to respond I tried to ask what he meant?
21:34:33 <ehird> -WHY AREN'T YOU DEDICATING YOUR LIFE TO CHECKING & RESPONDING TO THIS MINOR BUG REPORT FOR A PACKAGE FOR A MINOR LINUX DISTRO
21:38:24 <lifthrasiir> -http://www.glines.org/wiki/evfunge well, am i first to find this one?
21:38:40 <ehird> -12:45:26 <AnMaster> ais523, can you contact Claudio and explain why *direct link to tarball* is needed, since he now added an offending text at the top of http://intercal.freeshell.org/download/ about that
21:38:55 <ehird> -the text is offensive in and of itself; not its interpretation.
21:39:09 -!- Hiato has joined.
21:39:38 <ais523> +anyway, let's wait for AnMaster to come back and talk
21:39:50 <ais523> +the problem seems to be that CLC-INTERCAL is doing something unexpected
21:39:57 <ais523> +which, as an INTERCAL interp, is nothing new
21:40:02 <ehird> -ais523: but this is the only time I can insult him without dedicating an hour or two of my day arguing with him
21:40:09 <ehird> -also, this was in oct 2008 :P
21:40:11 <ais523> +AnMaster tries to find a workaround, CLC explains that the workaround doesn't work
21:40:25 <ais523> +AnMaster explains it's the only workaround possible
21:41:28 <ehird> -12:54:36 <Deewiant> ais523: make an ar which contains ars which are named according to directory
21:41:28 <ehird> -12:54:44 <Deewiant> so foo/bar/baz becomes foo.a -> bar.a -> baz.a -> files
21:41:31 <ehird> -I wholeheartedly support.
21:42:02 <Deewiant> +Hmm, you're reading somewhat old logs?
21:42:15 <ehird> -That is a thing I do often.
21:42:28 <ehird> -They're quite thoroughly amusing, you know.
21:44:31 * ehird tries a delightfully obscure DVCS
21:46:51 <lifthrasiir> -Deewiant, have you heard of evfunge (URL pasted above)? i wonder that it was seen in this channel.
21:47:28 <ehird> -Evfunge is a combination of an evolutionary algorithm, a board-game engine, and a sandboxed Befunge execution environment
21:47:35 <ehird> -Already like it I do.
21:47:35 <Deewiant> +I seem to recall the phrase "Fix it to run 4-dimensional Funge code, not 2-dimensional "
21:47:45 <Deewiant> +lifthrasiir: He contributes to Language::Befunge
21:47:57 -!- Hiato has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
21:48:10 <Deewiant> +I've been on the mailing list for it since January 2008 and I've seen more patches from him than Jerome :-P
21:48:34 <Deewiant> +Jerome doesn't put patches on the list, of course >_<
21:49:49 <lifthrasiir> -i searched for certain commands which follows after <> ^v hl (i.e. flow-changing commands for 4th dimension) and found it
21:50:15 <lifthrasiir> -too bad that there is no source code... that's interesting concept itself :p
21:51:18 <lifthrasiir> -for flow-changing commands, of course i know i can change delta directly but if anyone implemented such fingerprint at first it could be convenient.
21:51:34 <Deewiant> +Thinking of supporting arbitrary dimensions?
21:52:19 <lifthrasiir> -and what delimiter should be used for separating 4th dimension and more, like newline and formfeed ;)
21:53:38 <ehird> -\^L^N=switch_dimension(N,+1)
21:55:16 <lifthrasiir> -ehird: then it won't be compliant to spec.
21:55:37 <lifthrasiir> -anyway formfeed should not be used for that
21:56:03 <ehird> -^L is used for 3d, lifthrasiir
21:56:29 <lifthrasiir> -i mean that 4th dimension needs another delimiter and not ^L
21:56:51 <Deewiant> +ehird: What if you want to have a blank plane
21:57:20 <Deewiant> +You could do ^L ^L, of course, but it does contradict the original spec to treat ^L^L differently
21:58:14 <lifthrasiir> -using shift-in and shift-out for rotating Funge space (while writing to it)?
21:59:27 <oklopol> -so i decide to get my external hd so i can backup my laptop's stuff
21:59:32 <fizzie> ASCII has control code ^Y for "end of medium"; that's such an awesome name that it should have an associated strange-topology Fungoid meaning.
21:59:43 <oklopol> -and just as i'm about to do that it crashes and won't start anymore.
22:00:02 <ehird> -end of ... PSYCHIC MEDIUM
22:00:08 <ehird> -oklopol? Backing up?
22:00:39 <oklopol> -i only decided to back it up because the hd already broke once, but started working again..
22:00:48 <lifthrasiir> -fizzie: that should be used for multiverse funges.
22:02:59 <ais523> +(Logged in as NotLoggedIn)
22:03:26 <ehird> -that sw looks like...
22:03:29 <ehird> -that perl wiki software
22:03:41 <ais523> +obviously, it says in the title bar
22:04:09 <ais523> +also, evolutionarily creating Befunge programs is pretty amazing
22:04:15 <ais523> +I'd like to see the source of the resulting programs
22:04:29 <ehird> -since you have constraints
22:04:32 <ehird> -93 + limit on ticks
22:04:34 <ehird> -would be the easiest
22:04:37 <oklopol> -i was almost expecting for more comments, i mean that was kind of a weird coincidence imo :P
22:04:47 -!- Sgeo[College] has joined.
22:04:49 <ais523> +beh, I can't even see who wrote that
22:04:54 <ais523> +because the recent changes is time-limited
22:04:57 <Sgeo[College]> -ais523: what does "Setting .5 to #2/#3 instead of #1/#2" mean?
22:05:01 <ehird> -ais523: most old ones are
22:05:07 <ehird> -it's a wiki for one person
22:05:12 <ehird> -so I'm gonna go out and guess HIM
22:06:20 <ais523> +Sgeo[College]: I've had to explain this several times; check logs, or just read through and try to understand some old INTERCAL-72 programs that do flow control
22:07:11 <ais523> +sorry, I'm rather tired atm...
22:07:20 <ehird> -14:07:03 <ais523> basically, the IACC compiler is written in IACC and compiles IACC to ICBM.
22:07:20 <ehird> -14:07:17 <ais523> The other compilers compile CLC-INTERCAL, and other related languages, to ICBM, and are written in IACC.
22:07:41 <ais523> +it's not all that complicated once you get used to it
22:07:52 <ais523> +and the ICBM interpreter is written in Perl
22:07:58 <ais523> +because the whole thing has to run somehow
22:08:06 <lifthrasiir> -04:32:04 < ais523> The issue is that in INTERCAL-72, branching is accomplished by RETURNing a non-constant amount; #1/#2 means you save one NEXT slot, but #2/#3 is easier to calculate
22:08:08 <Sgeo[College]> -Maybe I should try learning INTERCAL before trying to understand
22:08:33 <ais523> +it's a pretty obvious problem if you've ever tried to do any sort of branch in INTERCAL-72
22:08:38 <ais523> +personally, I think #1/#2 ftw
22:08:48 <ais523> +it's not like you can't do the necessary transformation with two operators
22:09:02 <ais523> +which is likely much smaller than the rest of your expression
22:09:17 <ais523> +and #2/#3 requires one of them anyway
22:09:34 <ais523> +as an added advantage, you can do #1/#2 in the same number of operators as #2/#1, so it's easy to reverse your test
22:10:02 <ais523> +/ means "or" in this context
22:10:13 -!- jix has quit ("...").
22:10:26 <ais523> +as in, do you use #1 and #2 as your TRUE and FALSE in booleans, or do you use #2 and #3?
22:10:58 <ais523> +also, http://envbot.kuonet.org/~ais523/c-intercal/_darcs/pristine/doc/ick.txt is a good resource to learn INTERCAL from
22:11:03 <ais523> +as is the original manual
22:11:10 <ais523> +which has more code examples but less reference material
22:11:15 <Sgeo[College]> -Is http://divingintointercal.blogspot.com/2007/03/good-programmer-constantly-strives-to.html any good?
22:11:21 <ais523> +yes, but it doesn't get very far
22:11:29 <ais523> +the author gave up pretty early on
22:11:42 <ais523> +so you'll get a good introduction to about 2 features
22:12:27 <ais523> +not really, I don't think there's any serious misinformation there
22:12:35 <ais523> +the programs might be slightly inefficient and look outdated
22:12:55 <ais523> +"As a programming language, INTERCAL remains every bit as useful as it was over thirty years ago."
22:13:25 <ais523> +the author of that thing also didn't find any interps newer than 0.24
22:13:29 <Sgeo[College]> -Hm, what happens if you have a 3 line INTERCAL program? Is it unwritable due to politeness/rudeness issues?
22:13:42 <ais523> +Sgeo[College]: 2 lines or shorter is immune to politeness issues
22:13:56 <ais523> +with 3 lines, 1/3 is considered a suitably good approximation to 1/4 to be allowed
22:14:02 <ais523> +although 2/3 and 0 aren't
22:14:18 <ais523> +you don't have to get it exactly right, just "about 1/4"
22:14:44 <ais523> +1/3 and 1/5 are both allowed, IIRC
22:16:15 <ais523> +there's a loop in part 3 which uses #1 and #2 as booleans
22:16:21 <ais523> +but just requires the user to enter them by hand
22:16:32 <ais523> +he gave up trying to actually do calculations to lead to those values
22:17:20 <ais523> +also, using .1 as the branch variable is incredibly unidiomatic
22:17:35 <ais523> +.5 is much more common
22:17:58 <ais523> +and there's a well known undocumented feature of the standard library which gives you a line saying PLEASE RESUME .5 you can NEXT to
22:18:16 <ais523> +so well-known, in fact, that I had to implement it in my alternative standard library so as not to break lots of existing programs
22:19:22 <Sgeo[College]> -Is the "random compiler bug" a bug or a feature or is the tutorial wrong?
22:19:31 <ais523> +and probably a feature
22:19:47 <GregorR> +The only difference between a bug and a feature is documentation :P
22:19:53 <ais523> +GregorR: it's documented!
22:20:00 <ais523> +the compiler sometimes fails on valid programs
22:20:07 <ais523> +for C-INTERCAL, it's a 10% chance
22:20:17 <ais523> +there's a command-line option to turn the random bug off, if you don't feel like chancing it
22:20:29 <ais523> +(also, the compiler appears to work, but random-bug causes the resulting program to be invalid)
22:20:44 <ais523> +*resulting executable to be incorrect
22:20:46 <GregorR> +I wish I could identify the accent of the seagoat in Charlie the Unicorn 3 :P
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22:22:27 <Sgeo[College]> -"The bad news is that the previous sentence is the only good news."
22:24:25 <ais523> +what was the previous sentence?
22:24:53 <GregorR> +The good news is that the next sentence is the only bad news. The bad news is that the previous sentence is the only good news.
22:24:53 <Sgeo[College]> -"The good news is that the input tape and output tape (and their corresponding heads) are independent, which is much simpler than if they were connected."
22:26:07 <ais523> +in that case, there's more good news
22:26:20 <ais523> +the other good news is that that isn't /CLC-INTERCAL/'s I/O system
22:26:26 <ais523> +which is different, and much worse
22:26:53 <Sgeo[College]> -ais523: do comments count towards politeness/rudeness?
22:27:02 <ais523> +Sgeo[College]: yes, comments are just another sort of command
22:27:08 <ais523> +but is marked not to run by default
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22:39:03 <ehird> -http://cdn.fastclick.net/fastclick.net/cid172172/media323648.gif
22:39:14 <ehird> -links to http://www.marylifeblog.com/index.php?sub=vccpafdd XD
22:39:22 -!- MizardX- has changed nick to MizardX.
22:42:42 <ehird> -"How can you go wrong with a company that is publicly traded on the stock market."
22:44:30 <oerjan> +you cannot, as long as the company is well-typed
22:47:27 <ehird> -that guy who wrote that intercal tutorial
22:47:32 <ehird> -made his own emacs clone
22:50:23 <ehird> -Many commands require you to supply 40-character sha1 values as arguments, which identify revisions. These “revision IDs” are tedious to type, so monotone permits you to supply “revision selectors” rather than complete revision IDs. Selectors are a more “human friendly” way of specifying revisions by combining certificate values into unique identifiers. This “selector” mechanism can be used anywhere a revision ID would normally be used. F
22:50:25 <ehird> -or details on selector syntax, see Selectors.
22:50:43 <ais523> +is that from his emacs clone?
22:50:51 <ais523> +oh, no, from the version control system
22:51:11 <ehird> -http://www.monotone.ca/docs/Creating-a-Database.html#Creating-a-Database
22:51:17 <ehird> -It's *just like arch*
22:51:58 <ais523> +maybe this is why CVS was considered a good VCS when it first came out
22:52:03 <ehird> -For branch names, select any name you like but prefix it with the “inverted domain name” of a DNS domain you control or are otherwise authorized to use. This behavior mimics the package naming convention in the java programming language. For example, monotone itself is developed within the net.venge.monotone branch, because the author owns the DNS domain venge.net.
22:52:25 <ais523> +lots of projects use inverted domain name trees
22:52:39 <ais523> +Java, openoffice, odf, Gnome config
22:53:14 <Deewiant> +Of which the first three are from Sun Microsystems :-P
22:53:16 <ais523> +one of the core root things of the internet too, but I can't remember if it's dns or whois or something else
22:53:27 <ais523> +Deewiant: lots of people were involved with odf, but point taken
22:53:33 <ais523> +that might have been one of Sun's bits
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23:04:07 <ehird> -and I was just about to ask him
23:05:37 <ehird> -15:11:03 <tusho> what is this operator
23:05:38 <ehird> -15:11:09 <tusho> (x<<1)~x
23:05:39 <ehird> -15:11:29 <tusho> 1010 = 1011
23:05:40 <ehird> -15:11:30 <ais523> tusho: for each 1, it looks to see if there's a 1 to its left
23:05:44 <ehird> -I love how easy it is to invent operations
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