00:32:07 -!- fizzie has joined. 00:33:51 hello fizzie do you like lemons 00:46:46 -!- MizardX has quit ("reboot"). 00:49:12 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 00:50:18 -!- MizardX has joined. 01:18:55 -!- Sgeo has joined. 01:22:51 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 01:29:21 -!- neldoreth has quit ("Lost terminal"). 01:31:42 -!- psygnisfive has joined. 01:46:28 -!- pikhq has joined. 01:54:00 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("X-Chat -> http://xchat.org <- At least when I quit I don't look like a lamer"). 03:41:52 -!- Sgeo_ has joined. 03:58:00 -!- sebbu has joined. 04:00:03 -!- Sgeo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:14:46 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 04:26:20 -!- comex has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 04:39:15 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 06:30:50 -!- FireFly has joined. 06:34:22 oklopol: When life gives you lemons, make a lemur. 06:36:52 http://tr.froup.com/tr.pl?896 06:37:00 When life gives you lemon, make lemonade. 06:37:07 Assuming you also got water and a glass 06:37:30 and sugar, pleeasse 06:37:34 "I'm allergic to citrus". "When life gives you lemons, swell up and die." 06:37:41 When life gives you lemons, distill the citric acid out of it. 06:37:49 otherwise it's just lemon juice 06:38:03 When god gives you lemon, you FIND A NEW GOD 06:38:24    ____∧∧  / ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄ 06:38:25  ~' ____(,,゚Д゚)< SWELL UP AND DIE! 06:38:25    UU    U U   \________ 06:39:05 :3 06:39:11 I can't see the unicode 06:39:25 Buy some unicode 06:39:32 * pikhq kicks rxvt-unicode 06:39:38 I can't see the Unicode, either. 06:39:50 In a terminal which advertises Unicode support as one of its main features! 06:40:22 ( ´_ゝ`) 06:40:40 http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Divers8/gikogiko.jpg 06:41:23 More frustrating when you can rather readily write things that need Unicode. 06:41:24 (´ー`) 06:41:30 Indeed. 06:41:59 \|  ̄ヘ ̄|/ 06:42:14 Have some ASCII Shii then 06:42:26 (*°__°) 06:43:27       ∧ ∧ .____ _            06:43:27        (*゚ー゚) |  |@j|〕二l           06:43:27      ノ つ,-ー|  |llロ|二l'            06:43:27    ~(_| ̄ ̄ ̄| ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄| 06:43:27     .┗┳|___|____|   06:43:35 Ahah! I'm using the internet 06:43:49 ⋱⊗∙⊗⋰ 06:44:43 ≀-.-≀ 06:45:39 イ_イ 06:45:53 シ 06:46:02 Needs more COOL FREE RINGTONES. 06:47:05 (ິ.ິ) 06:48:03 ⍤ 06:48:14 ೮⌟೮ 06:48:21     ____ 06:48:22    / / /| 06:48:22  _| ̄ ̄ ̄ ̄| |__ 06:48:22 / |____|/ / 06:48:22  ̄ ̄ |し |  ̄ ̄ 06:48:22    し⌒J 06:48:46 ⌤ 06:48:57 ⍃⍄⌄⍃⍄ 06:49:37 hey, improvising is not easy! 06:50:07 Baka ne. 06:50:23 Nurupo. 06:50:42 ַo ַo 06:51:05 ٪٪٪٪٪٪٪٪٪٪٪٪٪٪٪٪٪٪٪٪٪٪٪٪٪٪٪٪٪٪٪٪٪٪٪٪٪٪٪٪٪٪٪٪٪٪٪٪v٪ 06:51:46 -_- 07:08:13 -!- SimonRC has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:22:35 -!- olsner has joined. 07:28:36 -!- pikhq has quit ("leaving"). 07:54:52 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:55:14 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 08:36:39 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 08:48:53 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 09:11:26 -!- M0ny has joined. 09:13:23 plop 09:13:28 yo 09:23:31 glio 09:26:09 -!- oerjan has joined. 09:55:33 I BELIEVE NOW 09:56:00 Don't believe in yourself 09:56:05 Believe in me, who believes in you. 09:57:27 Don't believe in Slereah, he doesn't really exist! 09:57:32 :| 09:58:08 no no i believe in a higher power. i decided this 5 minutes ago. 09:58:33 I'm a higher power 09:58:33 ah 09:58:37 tomorrow i shall believe in a lower power. 09:58:37 Feel my mighty dong. 09:58:58 Slereah: i'm not interested in your vietnamese currency 09:59:11 xDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD 09:59:28 IT'S FUNNY BECAUSE VIETNAMESE PEOPLE ARE RETARDS 09:59:38 wait why is it funny 10:00:03 http://membres.lycos.fr/bewulf/Divers3/Vietnam_dong_1976.jpg 10:00:07 Are you sure? 10:00:11 It's hard and shiny. 10:00:33 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vietnamese_%C4%91%E1%BB%93ng 10:00:44 i wish i had a dong :'( 10:00:46 I actually have some of that. 10:00:51 I have 5000 dongs :o 10:00:57 (Because it's worthless) 10:02:21 Slereah: you have to be more specific, which comments are about money and which are about penises 10:02:42 Well, can you guess what would fit in my room 10:02:55 5000 dongs worth of Vietnamese currency 10:02:59 Or 5000 penises 10:03:09 probably both, technically 10:03:26 Well, 5000 penises would take up significant space, though 10:03:40 If I had 5000 dongs, I'd probably store them in the attic 10:03:41 living in a room containing 5000 rotting human penises would probably be an interesting experience if you're gay 10:04:15 well you might invest in a freezer 10:04:23 hmm true 10:04:32 Why, I'm not going to eat them. 10:05:10 it's for science! 10:05:43 Then be my assistant. 10:06:03 er... 10:06:17 suddenly the ethical considerations start looming large 10:06:17 you could call them cocksicles and sell them at the market 10:06:39 Tests-sicles 10:07:06 "hihi what a funny novelty popsicle, these will be great for Margette's bachelorette party!" 10:07:18 *Margarette 10:07:29 i'm not sure that's a better name 10:07:54 point is that would be good reality tv 10:08:02 OH MY GOD THEY'RE ALIVE 10:08:15 oklopol: the name suitable enhances the stereotype 10:08:18 *y 10:08:34 WHAT STEREOTYPE DURRRRR 10:08:47 Margarette is the real name of Maggie. 10:08:59 A baby, sucking on rotting severed penises 10:08:59 of the kind of people who would say "hihi what a funny novelty popsicle, these will be great for Margette's bachelorette party!" 10:09:01 You sicken me 10:09:21 wait who sickens who 10:09:29 oerjan: most probably true. 10:09:38 i did have a reason to choose it 10:10:22 and it was exactly the fact that it suitable enhanced the stereotype of the kind of people who say the kind of thing the character said even though aforementioned dude (who was a chick) wasn't margarette but her friend. 10:11:17 i should probably go now, my new religion is making me a bit pseudosemantic. 10:11:51 Fake meaning? 10:11:56 maybe your religion needs a bit more gloom 10:12:04 maybe 10:12:22 current one is probably like christianity because i caught it in the shower 10:12:27 and neighbors are probably 10:12:31 christian 10:12:38 why am i still up 10:13:14 Sgeo_: because you haven't fallen yet 10:13:37 Bye all 10:13:54 and the bye 10:13:58 bye 10:14:08 can christianity be passed on through water? 10:14:29 oklopol: hm that _would_ explain that baptism thing wouldn't it? 10:14:41 :D 10:14:44 you're a genius 10:14:48 but seriously though 10:14:50 yeah 10:14:52 probably that's true 10:15:30 well. need to go to the shoppe, to buy religious things, then university stuff. 10:15:37 a whole hour of it! 10:15:47 eek 10:17:28 heh 10:18:06 from wikipedia's On this day i deduce that Kim Il-Sung was born the same day Titanic sank 10:18:31 i would guess the north koreans largely don't advertise that 10:18:39 Or don't know that 10:19:12 what's a titannic? 10:19:18 but Titanic was obviously one of the great failures of capitalism, they have to know about it 10:19:36 oerjan: then why wouldn't they advertise it? 10:19:47 they might not mention the date 10:19:58 hm maybe they would 10:20:16 but it's like their great and massive leader killed the capitalisms and you know. 10:20:27 by borning to a world. 10:20:50 AN COOL WORLD TO BE BORNING UPON AND UNTO :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDD 10:21:14 excuse me. i suck at leaving. 10:21:19 but maybe -> 10:32:12 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 11:13:33 -!- GreaseMonkey has quit ("X-Chat -> http://xchat.org <- At least when I quit I don't look like a lamer"). 11:30:02 -!- oerjan has quit ("At least when I quit I don't look like a llama"). 11:43:59 -!- MizardX has quit ("got to go"). 12:34:18 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 12:46:17 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 13:11:06 -!- FireFly has joined. 15:19:20 someone explain what sense victim caches make to me 15:19:25 err 15:19:30 lol i figured them out midsentence 15:19:31 ... 15:28:28 05:39 pikhq: In a terminal which advertises Unicode support as one of its main features! 15:28:32 i think it's shiftjis 15:28:56 now someone fix x11 15:39:15 11:21:44 tusho, php then header(). 15:39:15 11:21:49 AnMaster: HAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHAHAHAHA 15:39:16 11:21:56 * tusho kicks AnMaster 15:48:00 11:49:27 optbot: your wisdom is beyond compare 15:48:00 11:49:28 oerjan: you could not infect OpenBSD boxes with it, though 15:48:08 11:49:49 optbot: you only run on Linux then? 15:48:08 11:49:50 oerjan: also the world's best imperative language. 15:49:38 11:55:29 fungot: YOU ARE A RUBBISH BOT! HAH! EAT FLAMES,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,,eheheheh... 15:49:38 11:55:30 ais523: has scheme only 26 levels of recursion 15:52:51 ..what language is optbot coded in? 15:52:57 FireFly: ruby 15:53:00 Ah 15:53:00 40 line hack 15:53:05 :o 15:53:06 it just picks random lines from the logs 15:53:09 and blabs them 15:53:12 or changes the topic to them 15:54:01 It'd be interesting if fungot bashed ruby instead of haskell, bot wars 15:54:08 Eh 15:54:10 scheme* 15:54:23 web.archive.org is doooooooooown 15:56:47 -!- fungot has joined. 15:56:52 ooh, I'm up to the part where AnMaster acts as if I'm immoral for not telling everyone what tentaclerapture.com was about on the front page 15:57:00 gets me every time 15:57:19 Since fungot's language model is for the most parts #scheme logs, it tends to be a bit biased to talk about that particular language. 15:57:19 fizzie: that's tragic. typical. those pigs... cardelli, et al's theory of objects. do you have 15:57:29 :-DDDDDDD 15:57:30 Yes, very tragic. 16:01:42 18:05:17 * Sgeo won in a shoppa match (in Worms) 16:01:47 Fun fact: People who call it 'shoppa' suck balls. 16:06:31 06:58:44 optbot: we're gonna have to put you in rehab 16:06:31 06:58:45 tusho: to allow pushing several in one row 16:06:32 06:58:51 well 16:06:33 Well, he has a point, it IS typical 16:06:34 06:58:56 optbot: no, you can't take drugs any more sorry 16:06:36 06:58:56 tusho: what is your complaint 16:06:38 06:59:07 optbot: drugs are bad for computer programs mmkay 16:06:40 06:59:07 tusho: I dunno. :| 16:07:10 :D 16:07:19 07:08:12 KingOfKarlsruhe: There's a family name in my family that hasn't been used for, oh, ten generations or so. 16:07:19 07:09:14 optbot, what name is that? 16:07:21 07:09:14 AnMaster: what's wrong with this one?, (define (fib n) (+ (fib (- n 1) (- n 2)))) 16:07:35 funny fungot is fungotty 16:07:35 Calling people (define (fib n) (+ (fib (- n 1) (- n 2)))) got a bit unwieldy, I guess. 16:07:36 FireFly: nope, i'm trying my best. could you briefly explain how that is 16:07:43 FireFly: that was optbot 16:07:46 THE ORIGINAL 16:07:53 Ah well 16:07:59 yeah, I noticed 16:08:07 But I wanted some fungot sentence 16:08:07 FireFly: spiders are cool. 16:08:43 08:17:54 -rw-r----- 1 root adm 1.5G Sep 24 15:16 /var/log/apache2/access.log 16:08:43 yow 16:14:21 13:21:20 AnMaster: not exactly, tusho only likes Mac fonts 16:14:29 Here we see an excellent misunderstanding of cause vs effect 16:30:20 http://labs.trolltech.com/blogs/2008/05/13/introducing-qgtkstyle/ AWESOME. 16:57:17 -!- ais523 has joined. 17:05:27 ais523, hi I forgot again how one inputs a non-printable char in emacs... I need to put a literal null byte in a text file to test something. 17:06:01 control-q, then either type the literal character, or type its character code and press return 17:06:07 the character code's input in octal by default, IIRC 17:06:10 but many people change that 17:06:15 hm ok 17:06:25 so C-q 0 RET is how you type a literal NUL 17:07:44 err. something is wrong.. 17:08:00 the 0 case worked 17:08:01 octal? why? 17:08:22 ais523, but when I tried 12... well I'm not sure what happened, hard to describe 17:09:14 ehird: back when Emacs became popular, octal was the usual method of abbreviating binary 17:09:19 it inserted two newlines instead of one hm. But only in that specific buffer 17:09:22 how strange 17:09:40 as it worked on the seven-segment displays that were popular in early computers 17:09:45 ais523: heh. 17:09:56 although they'd moved onto proper screens by then, octal still hadn't given way to hex 17:10:02 ais523, is it possible that mule-utf8 mode thingy mess this up? 17:10:20 also I have no idea why emacs decided to enable that for this file 17:10:21 AnMaster: it shouldn't, I don't think 17:10:22 * ehird looks into writing a haskell extension to ghc that automatically reloads modules 17:10:36 i'm tired of C-c C-l and remaking my definitions! 17:10:48 er 17:10:48 ghci 17:10:49 ofc 17:11:05 "relohder" 17:11:07 * ehird is shot 17:11:32 :DDDDDDDDDDDDDDDD 17:11:47 see, it has an h 17:11:49 for haskell 17:11:52 great pun! 17:12:05 ais523, why does C-q mode display a space between every digit in the minibuffer? 17:12:13 s/mode // 17:12:20 it's the standard multicharacter echo 17:12:31 C-q 1 2 RET is effectively a multicharacter command 17:12:42 and it writes each character in the command separately when echoing 17:13:11 ais523, some stuff in the minibuffer doesn't do such spaces though. C-s for example. 17:13:21 that's because it's not a command 17:13:21 C-s is a minor mode, not a multicharacter command 17:13:28 it's a command that opens a minibuffer input thing 17:13:31 ais523, heh interesting 17:13:36 (do you know anything about emacs?!) 17:13:41 (I don't even USE it!) 17:13:43 likewise, C-x C-f is a multicharacter command, but the file input afterwards is a prompt 17:13:57 so you don't get spaces inside the filename 17:14:07 ehird, well I haven't studied much about its internals 17:14:14 that's not internals... 17:14:30 well, it is internals but you can deduce it all just from thinking while using Emacs 17:14:36 my main interest was just using it. I haven't really cared how it works as long as it worked as I wanted it. 17:15:00 it's basic elements of the UI 17:15:28 ehird, yes and I haven't really cared about how it worked, I have been able to use it just fine without knowing that. 17:15:39 how can you use a UI without knowing how the UI works 17:15:43 that's a contradiction in terms 17:16:00 ehird: contradiction or not, I've certainly seen lots of people /do/ it... 17:16:04 normally badly 17:16:08 yes, they're called secretaries, ais523 17:16:31 actually, secretaries nowadays are normally pretty good with the computer tasks they need to do 17:16:36 although often it's cargo-cult style 17:16:42 ehird, you seem to be saying that you need to know that C-s is a minor mode to be able to use C-s? Why? 17:16:50 AnMaster: nothing related to minor mode 17:17:03 it's related to having an input field in the minibuffer vs it echoing a command as you type it 17:17:05 that's trivial 17:17:06 it's obvious that it's a minor mode, though, because Isearch comes up on the modeline 17:17:28 likewise, M-x C-x o works rather differently from C-q C-x o 17:17:41 the reasons why should be obvious, especially if you know the difference between M-x and C-q 17:18:07 ais523, hm that thing on modeline, haven't noticed one of those showed up for Isearch, now that you mention it though 17:19:37 ais523, M-x is just execute-command iirc? 17:19:51 hm correction: C-h k M-x claims it is execute-extended-command. 17:20:02 AnMaster: yes, M-x lets you execute arbitrary commands 17:20:06 by typing in their extended name 17:20:17 you can do M-x forward-char if you really want to 17:20:26 pretty much the only thing that doesn't sanely work is M-x self-insert-command 17:20:29 as it doesn't know which character to insert 17:20:47 ais523: it enters ^M 17:20:52 (self-insert-command's the default binding for all the alphabetic, numeric and punctuation keys) 17:20:52 and says you can run it with SPC 17:21:00 ehird: heh 17:21:10 that behaviour's plausible, knowing Emacs' internals 17:21:50 C-q runs the command quoted-insert 17:21:51 which is an interactive compiled Lisp function in `simple.el'. 17:21:51 It is bound to C-q. 17:21:55 err a bit redundant? 17:22:04 from C-h k C-q 17:22:05 not really, that means it isn't bound to anything else 17:22:06 nope. 17:22:12 what ais523 said 17:23:41 ais523, ok that makes sense. I can't think of a case where you would want to bind to several key combinations, though. (but I don't see any reason to forbid doing so either) 17:23:56 well, you want self-insert-command bound to most of the keys on your keyboard 17:24:17 and due to the existence of modes, it happens quite a bit 17:24:36 for instance, moving a rectangular block of code can be done with C-x r k, C-x r y 17:24:40 well that's true. And it is a rather interesting way to handle normal input :) 17:24:51 certainly very "emacs-y" 17:24:53 a hypothetical befunge-mode would probably introduce abbreviations for those 17:25:05 but it would be insane if it removed the original bindings 17:25:34 indeed. 17:29:44 * ehird digs up a K interp 17:31:05 ah, NASA came up with an interesting solution to the whole Colbert thing 17:31:37 oh? 17:31:39 instead of naming the new module after him, they went and called their newest treadmill the Combined Operational Load Bearing External Resistance Treadmill 17:32:03 and one of those is shipping up to the ISS 17:32:21 lame 17:32:49 Humans need ECC memory. 17:33:10 AnMaster: how do you know they don't have it/ 17:33:22 humans need computers to do that sort of stuff for them 17:33:41 "• Learn the kdb+ programming language q from the tutorials at code.kx.com. Buy the Q for Mortals book on Amazon. " 17:33:45 what if I plan on being immortal? 17:33:46 ais523, considering of often we misremember stuff that happened several years ago. 17:33:54 http://kx.com/images/0903-DownloadKX.png 17:34:00 a 32 bit trial version. yaaaaaaaay . 17:34:03 AnMaster: that's not errors 17:34:09 that's just shifting unused memory out 17:34:17 it's fuzzy garbage collection 17:34:57 ehird, wouldn't that be "forget" rather than "misremember"? Or do you mean the GC corrupts the data? 17:35:11 We don't remember so we make shit up 17:37:14 hm that isn't always the case though, sometimes you distinctly remember that [some event] happened in [some year], but checking with letters or whatever shows it happened a year or two [before/after] 17:37:16 or such 17:46:39 q)\l /dev/null 17:46:39 k){if[$[1>@d:!f:-1!x;1;`.d~*d];:.[$[qt d;*|`\:f;`.];();:;d:. f]];p:(d=`par.txt)|d like"[0-9]*"; 17:46:41 ."\\cd ",$x;f .q.set'{$[0>@!x:-1!x;. x;x`]}'f:d@&~(d=`html)|p|s:"."in'$d;if[|/p;L d@&p];if[~`.=x;(."\\l ",$:)'d@&s&~p];} 17:46:43 'type 17:46:45 .: 17:46:47 `:/dev/null 17:46:49 q)) 17:46:52 i love k/q 17:47:46 at first I thought that was a mix of Perl and shellscript 17:48:02 the funny thing is, though, it doesn't look like line noise at all 17:48:08 it's a mix of q and k 17:48:12 it isn't obviously intelligible; but, you can tell there's meaning in there 17:48:20 as in, I type in the q "\l /dev/null", and then it gives the internal K code 17:48:22 and some results 17:48:27 then I get the q)) prompt 17:48:31 I suppose that means debugger 17:48:34 as doing it more gets me more )s 17:48:39 and ^D pops a ) off 17:49:07 interesting 17:49:10 q)help 17:49:10 {if[not 10h=abs type x;x:string x];$[1=count i:where(key DIR)like x,"*";-1 ea.. 17:49:12 q)help` 17:49:13 <> 17:49:15 I guess postfix ` is eval 17:49:47 q)1 2 3 * 2 17:49:47 2 4 6 17:49:50 reassuring 17:50:09 The DNA sequencing of q also shows the influence of functional programming. While q is not purely functional, it is arguably as functional as C++, Java and C# are object-oriented. 17:52:58 wow 17:53:03 k/q has limited size integers 17:53:09 q)5646899984888785456546451513321586789489468465435233165449888788889 17:53:10 '5646899984888785456546451513321586789489468465435233165449888788889 17:53:10 q)22 17:53:13 22 17:54:32 oh, ais523 is here! 17:54:40 i has questions 17:54:42 how did you not notice? 17:54:48 ais523: difficultly. 17:54:49 also, I have Enigma levels 17:54:55 I've had them for a while, but forgot to paste 17:54:58 ais523: heh 17:55:02 enigma dude is back! 17:55:02 amusingly, still no AnMaster-style ones 17:55:09 ais523: anyway, does c-intercal have any ^Hs in its code? 17:55:12 but one of them I've played about 20 times despite having completed it, it's fun 17:55:13 or is that moar clc 17:55:14 i mean 17:55:17 the ical code 17:55:31 ehird: C-INTERCAL accepts c backspace / as a mingle character 17:55:37 it accepts any syntax so long as it's unambiguous 17:55:45 ais523: is it idiotmatic 17:55:45 well, any syntax used by any INTERCAL compiler 17:55:48 i mean idiomatic/ 17:55:52 s/\/$// 17:56:03 well, the Google coding standards don't recommend using literal backspaces 17:56:10 and the vast majority of people use $ because it's easier to type 17:56:17 CLC-INTERCAL programs are often written using literal backspace, though 17:56:32 ais523: see, my intercal compiler will have many strange metafeatures used in its implementation and elsewhere 17:56:41 ais523: I wanted to expose them as variables prefixed with an interrobang 17:56:45 I'll support ‽, ofc 17:56:47 and probably ?! 17:56:51 and !? 17:56:54 but I'm wondering whether to support... 17:56:55 ?^H! 17:56:58 and !^H? 17:57:01 ?! can exist in regular INTERCAL code 17:57:01 :-D 17:57:08 ais523: what, as a variable name? 17:57:14 "?!4~.5'" is legal code 17:57:19 ais523: what, as a variable name? 17:57:35 ehird: not as a variable name, but it can appear in a context where the parser couldn't tell them apart for much later 17:57:54 ais523: then using ?! sounds perfectly INTERCAL to me. 17:57:59 after all, contrast "?!4~.5'" and "?!4~.5" 17:58:06 ais523: well. 17:58:09 i don't know what those do. 17:58:13 wait 17:58:15 ~ is mingle right 17:58:17 or select 17:58:19 no, ~ is select 17:58:21 right 17:58:22 so it's 17:58:26 erm 17:58:29 what is the ! var prefix again 17:58:32 '. 17:58:36 ? 17:58:37 a standard abbreviation 17:58:42 okay, what's '. :D 17:58:47 ' to ' is parens 17:58:51 as is " to " 17:58:53 ah 17:58:54 it's 17:58:55 and . is a variable identifier 17:58:59 ?!4~.5' 17:59:00 right 17:59:01 so it's 17:59:04 -!- MizardX has joined. 17:59:04 so ! in INTERCAL is like ($ in Perl 17:59:07 ? '.4~.5' 17:59:12 ais523: what's ? 17:59:16 unary XOR 17:59:28 although remember it's written one character later than in other languages 17:59:31 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:59:36 ais523: so: the unary XORing of the selecting of .4 and .5 17:59:39 yes 17:59:43 vs the interrobang one which is: 17:59:49 ...a syntax error 17:59:53 since you have an unmatched ' 18:00:01 well, I don't see any problem there. 18:00:05 yes, but you can't tell that until much later in the expression 18:00:11 ais523: and? :D 18:00:15 and I'm wondering if you could do two of them which cancelled each other out somehow 18:00:17 gimme some code that actually is valid in both forms 18:00:46 the recommended form will probably be ‽, for æsthetics 18:01:16 ,1SUB'?!1~.2''.3'?!4~.5'' is, I think, ambiguous 18:01:29 ais523: wow, nothing simpler? 18:01:56 it may actually be ambiguous even without interrobang, let me run it through C-INTERCAL's parser 18:02:40 ais523: anyway, which do you think I should allow out of ‽ ?! !? ?^H! !^H? 18:02:47 and which do you think I should recommend? 18:02:57 you should allow all but the second and third 18:03:13 multichar operators /must/ be overpunched in INTERCAL, or abbreviated to a single char somehow 18:03:18 otherwise you're just wasting horizontal space 18:03:33 ais523: hmm ... but OTOH, that breaks ASCII-compatibility 18:03:47 e.g., with C-INTERCAL you don't need to use any non-printable-ASCII, right? 18:03:52 er, save for newlines 18:04:02 no 18:04:07 ais523: oh? 18:04:08 but most of ASCII is already taken 18:04:13 as in, no you don't 18:04:15 right 18:04:18 but I'd like to keep it 18:04:19 like that 18:04:29 ais523: maybe I could accept "^H" as ^H 18:04:34 well, ?^HI is obviously the princeton syntax for the operator 18:04:39 * ?^H! 18:04:40 so you'd type !^H? -- literally 18:04:47 (or ?^H!) 18:04:49 the atari syntax would be a single entirely different character 18:04:51 maybe ` 18:04:55 as in, !, ^, H, ? 18:04:57 good idea? :P 18:05:08 C-INTERCAL is Atari, CLC-INTERCAL is Princeton 18:05:22 oi 18:05:24 and that's probably not a good idea, although it /is/ what C-INTERCAL does internally to try to explain the syntax to lex 18:05:32 why's it not a good idea? :-( 18:05:40 it is confusing... 18:05:42 :P 18:05:48 s/is/\/is\// 18:05:50 because ^H is hardly portable, the keyboard might not even have a control key 18:05:56 you have to think back to 1972 here 18:05:56 ais523: what? 18:05:58 I meant 18:05:58 ^ 18:06:00 H 18:06:00 not modern assumptions 18:06:02 the two characters 18:06:05 is accepted as ^H 18:06:06 yes, I know 18:06:11 ^H is utterly unidiomatic 18:06:25 it would make no sense to a 1970s programmer, most likely 18:06:28 ais523: well, c-intercal isn't 1972 compatible is it? 18:06:32 yes 18:06:52 you have to convert the code to a modern character set using convickt if it's written in EBCDIC or something weird like that 18:06:57 but it runs 1972 code without modifications 18:07:02 that's irrelevant 18:07:09 I mean, a person from 1972 couldn't utilize all of cintercal 18:07:26 they could if they had the compiler and a copy of the manual 18:07:55 what, it uses no non-1972 characters? 18:08:53 ASCII and EBCDIC both existed back then 18:09:12 and yes, it uses no characters that didn't exist in 1972 18:09:18 ais523: and thus the characters ^ and H existed 18:09:21 yes 18:09:27 but I mean, ^H didn't mean backspace 18:09:28 thus ^ followed by H as backspace is not a problem for 1972 18:09:36 it's not that people couldn't type it, it's that it made absolutely no sense 18:09:38 ais523: and $ didn't mean mingle either 18:09:39 compared to the rest of INTERCAL 18:09:54 ehird: no, but currency signs in general mean mingle 18:10:00 it's a simple generalisation 18:10:12 ais523: regardless, intercal has never made esnse 18:10:16 and C-INTERCAL accepts the old-fashioned notation for mingle too 18:10:25 and please don't say that, there are reasons behind everything there 18:10:27 they're just bad reasons 18:11:02 ais523: does c-intercal accept unicode cent? 18:11:14 yes 18:11:23 if expressed in UTF-8 18:11:26 it accepts latin-1 cent too 18:11:29 yen is a weird case 18:11:31 ais523: I just don't want to break ASCIIpatibility 18:11:40 it treats it as exclusive-or if given in latin-1, or mingle if given in utf-8 18:11:48 which DTRT for nearly all programs 18:11:50 OTOH, I don't want to water down the interrobang 18:12:07 also 18:12:07 I seriously thing ?! is the right way to do it 18:12:08 why? 18:12:09 *think 18:12:12 re: yen 18:12:25 and because CLC-INTERCAL uses the yen sign as an approximation as V backspace - 18:12:32 ais523: my favoured editor doesn't do literal backspaces. so. 18:12:33 but nearly all CLC-INTERCAL programs are written in Latin-1 18:12:36 i don't really want to recommend them 18:12:40 ehird: your favoured editor fails 18:12:43 really badly 18:12:55 ais523: most editors do 18:12:57 even Notepad does literal backspaces if you copy and paste them from elsewhere 18:13:00 apart from emacs and vi 18:13:01 oh 18:13:02 well duh 18:13:04 ofc my editor does that 18:13:17 I mean it doesn't display them nicely and I can't enter them properly 18:13:24 unlike, say, vi, where you can do ^V backspace 18:13:52 edit.com can do literal backspaces, it's available on pretty much all Windows systems and is older than Notepad 18:13:57 meh, I'll just support unicode 18:13:59 it's da futur 18:14:11 darfur 18:14:21 ehird: just ship with a copy of convickt, it was specifically invented to avoid these sorts of problems... 18:14:40 ais523: how crazy do you think marking a certain type of literal with unbalanced ' and " and nothing else is? 18:14:43 that is, 'foo" is it and so is "foo' 18:14:44 :D 18:15:07 I suspect it'll lead to massive ambiguity 18:15:14 ais523: Precisely. 18:15:17 just trying to explain what something as simple as .1~.2~.3 does is hard enough 18:15:34 in the end I had to find out by experiment, despite having two sets of documentation and two sets of source cde 18:15:35 *code 18:15:42 er 18:15:45 why is that difficult 18:15:53 which way does it associate/ 18:16:01 ah 18:16:18 (1) DO ‽1 ← 'DO GIVE UP" 18:16:21 ooh 18:16:22 I know 18:16:26 I could do “ to ” 18:16:37 unicode that's similar to ascii is always the answer. 18:16:41 if you want to keep compatibility with other compilers, CLC-INTERCAL uses , as a delimiter for that sort of string 18:16:44 (1) DO ‽1 ← “DO GIVE UP” 18:16:48 guess what that does 18:17:11 assigns code to a variable? 18:17:14 ais523: hint -- it's the basis for all control flow 18:17:15 and nope 18:17:23 hm 18:17:24 it should be 18:17:28 (1) DO ‽2 ← “DO GIVE UP” 18:17:36 "it's the basis for all control flow" <--- every INTERCAL implementor ever, talking about about ten different things 18:17:49 :-D 18:18:20 ais523: it assigns the code "DO GIVE UP" to the line 2 18:19:23 ais523: and yes, COME FROM is implemented by symlinking the given line to the lowest untaken fractional of the line number you come from 18:20:05 ais523: that is, "(2) COME FROM 1" would symlink 1.1 to 2, or if 1.1 is taken, it'd symlink 1.2, etc 18:20:10 symlinking with operand overloading? 18:20:12 or a different method? 18:20:15 ais523: former 18:20:16 what about computed COME FROM 18:20:19 also, your syntax is wrong 18:20:25 ais523: yes, my syntax is wrong 18:20:25 (2) COME FROM (1) <--- uncomputed 18:20:29 I'm just explaining the idea 18:20:30 (2) COME FROM #1 <--- computed 18:20:33 ais523: right 18:20:41 grr, something's wrong with filebin.ca 18:20:48 ais523: with computed, I think it'd do something crazy. 18:20:55 I'm not sure what, but I don't think humanity could handle it. 18:21:08 But yeah. 18:21:13 Operand overloading fractional line numbers. 18:21:26 Discuss. 18:21:26 it's simple enough, you can overload a variable to an expression 18:21:33 as in .1/.1~.2 18:21:36 yes 18:21:37 I know 18:21:50 ais523: but it's a rather INTERCAL basis for control flow, don't you think? 18:22:04 -!- rodgort has quit ("Coyote finally caught me"). 18:22:12 ehird: it's one way to implement it 18:22:17 but, shouldn't you link them all to the same fractional 18:22:25 -!- rodgort has joined. 18:22:26 ais523: eh? 18:22:43 (1) DO NOTHING (2) DO COME FROM (1) (3) DO COME FROM (1) 18:22:49 causes control to transfer to both (2) and (3) 18:22:52 rather than one or the other 18:23:03 ais523: ah 18:23:15 ais523: if 1.1 was already linked, it'd follow it and go from there 18:23:20 so it'd try 1.1 then 2.1, I suppose 18:23:22 oh wait 18:23:24 ais523: is this threaing/ 18:23:26 *threading 18:23:28 yes 18:23:31 it transfers control to them simultaneously 18:23:33 ais523: this is in -72? 18:23:33 yes 18:23:39 no, it's an extension 18:23:40 ais523, it is an error without threading right? 18:23:42 COME FROM wasn't in -72 at all 18:23:44 AnMaster: yep 18:23:48 ais523: oh, it wasn't? 18:23:49 I forgot the funny message though 18:23:50 bizarre 18:24:02 ais523: well, can you operand overload something to multiple things? 18:24:05 as Google says, INTERCAL has become best known for a feature that wasn't even in the original 18:24:06 something like, um, flow graph? 18:24:17 ehird: not simultaneously, at least not in C-INTERCAL 18:24:19 ais523: if not, I'll add that, and cause the program to thread with both values whenever you use it 18:24:30 in CLC-INTERCAL, you might be able to using the "quantum" stuff 18:24:30 ais523: thus, COME FROM doesn't have to do anything 18:24:31 ais523, error was something like "too many connections in control-flow graph" iirc? 18:24:40 ais523: the interpreter tries 1.1, and it forks, getting both values, one in each thread 18:24:41 FLOW DIAGRAM IS EXCESSIVELY CONNECTED 18:24:43 IIRC 18:24:43 and continues to them 18:24:46 ais523: awesome y/n 18:24:53 ais523, ah that sounds about right 18:25:14 multiple operand overloading and code lines as variables = control flow and threading in one 18:26:01 anyway, Enigma level: http://pastebin.ca/raw/1392961 (ais52309_1.xml) 18:26:04 -!- pikhq has joined. 18:26:12 ais523: you seem slightly underwhelmed 18:26:21 ehird: I'm used to this sort of thing 18:26:26 it happens all the time in INTERCAL 18:26:34 here I was thinking operand overloading to multiple targets causing a quantum-ish threading, then using that on variable names to do threaded COME FROM 18:26:36 was pretty cool. 18:26:42 ais523: sure, but I'm a newbie :-P 18:27:02 http://pastebin.ca/raw/1392963 (ais52310_1.xml) 18:27:12 ais523: it should be noted that I'm doing a compiler 18:27:15 10 is a level that someone had to do sometime; 09 is a level that I've played loads of times 18:27:22 ehird: compiler, or interp? 18:27:26 and what are you compiling to, if compiling? 18:27:36 ais523: compiler, and INTERCAL 18:27:50 you're compiling INTERCAL to INTERCAL? 18:27:57 as in, modern INTERCAL to INTERCAL-72? 18:28:03 or just running through cat? 18:28:11 ais523: nope, modern INTERCAL to the compiler internal extensions only 18:28:30 thus, all that's left is the internal compiler extensions 18:28:54 what you do with the result is up to you, probably I'll have a compiler from that to something else 18:29:00 ah 18:29:11 so it's actually quite a CLC-INTERCAL-like system 18:29:17 yes 18:29:20 ais523: but not cheating 18:29:28 as in, CLC-INTERCAL's extensions are only for compiler use 18:29:28 CLC-INTERCAL isn't cheating either, IMO 18:29:31 and discouraged elsewhere 18:29:33 but not here 18:30:07 ais523: also, no sneaky embedded perl 18:30:40 the essential problem is that I think the compiler results will require the compiler 18:30:44 because of ‽ 18:30:49 ais523, style of these two new engima levels? 18:30:51 but hey, who cares 18:31:11 AnMaster: 10 is a pure intelligence puzzle translated into Enigmaese 18:31:18 ais523: oh, and you know the INTERCAL IDE (INTERCAL Defenestration Environment) Environment I was talking about? 18:31:22 09 is rather interesting and hard to classify 18:31:28 ehird: no 18:31:33 ais523: yeah you do :-P 18:31:37 ais523: when I said i'd port it to gnustep 18:31:39 09 mostly comes out as a mix of intelligence and dex 18:31:41 ehird: oh, yes 18:31:42 and give out a gnustep vm with it preloaded 18:31:45 ais523, 10 sounds interesting definitely, and 9 is hard to know from that description 18:31:49 ais523: Better: it'll be written for ReactOS only 18:31:50 * AnMaster downloads them 18:31:51 it won't run onwindows 18:31:52 just reactOS 18:32:07 AnMaster: how would you classify a level that's just floor and oxyds? 18:32:10 oh, and maybe WINE 18:32:28 9's like that, just the floor is interestingly weird which makes the level very interesting 18:32:33 I found it amusing, anyway 18:32:37 ehird: sounds about right 18:32:42 WINE and ReactOS share lots of code IIRC 18:32:47 so it's plausible 18:32:51 and WINE runs on Windows, so it would even be portable 18:32:53 oh, in that case I'll have to get it running on only one of them 18:33:02 ais523, um. depends on size and complexity. "Tutorial" comes to mind for easier ones. 18:33:10 it isn't a tutorial 18:33:14 ais523: ideally, windows users would have to run the reactos-in-a-vm 18:33:17 it's just one screen, 12 oxyds 18:33:22 and a floor which makes it /very/ interesting 18:33:34 ofc, it'd be all packed up nicely so you can just open an executable and it opens the vm and ide 18:33:49 the general concept is making it easy to do oh-so-horrific things 18:33:56 yes 18:33:57 Could possibly even run on Windows with some of the libraries replaced with WINE's. 18:34:06 ais523: care to explain Tourism? 18:34:09 -!- Judofyr has quit ("end"). 18:34:59 ehird: if you know the classic puzzle, just experimenting a bit should make it obvious 18:35:00 interesting, pressing ctrl-c in the terminal you started engima in causes it to go up one level in the menu system, same as esc in the enigma window 18:35:07 ais523: I don't 18:35:21 ehird: basically, you have to get the chess stone onto every single square of the level 18:35:28 but you can't put it back to a square it's been on before 18:35:29 that sure sounds unfun 18:35:41 10 isn't fun to play more than once 18:35:51 and you probably want to work out the solution before typing it in 18:35:55 ais523, stop spoling it :( 18:35:56 I did it in under 20 minutes using Prolog 18:35:57 typing? 18:36:01 well, mouse-typing 18:36:04 AnMaster: sorry 18:36:30 anyway, you should both be able to work out what the rules of Don't Look Back are more or less trivially with a bit of experimentation 18:36:56 rules of don't look back: if you go on a square you've already been on you freeze :-P 18:37:02 almost 18:37:03 ais523, however, those chess pieces doesn't like to move most of the time you hit them, only in about 1 of 10 cases do they actually move. Is this intentional or am I doing something wrong? 18:37:06 ais523: wut? 18:37:07 I noticed that in other levels too. 18:37:15 AnMaster: to move them, you bounce diagonally on them 18:37:25 aha 18:37:35 ehird: you can't control the marble on a square you've been to before, but if you go in with enough momentum you come out the other side 18:37:43 ais523: ha 18:38:20 "why are they trying to build a brain? how about trying to figure out how to clean up all this corruption and feed the hungry" 18:38:24 — Youtube comment 18:39:30 Argh, the dumb. 18:39:35 * AnMaster tries to remember the correct pattern for visit every tile once (now that ais spoiled it, though that was one of the possible solutions I were considering even before I saw that) 18:40:58 err 18:41:04 how is it a spoiler 18:41:07 yay, just got a new personal record on 09 18:41:10 27 seconds 18:41:20 ehird: AnMaster likes spending lots of time working out how levels work... 18:41:56 amusingly, my time on easy on 09 is over twice my time on hard 18:41:58 ais523: yeah nothing more enjoyable than sitting in front of a screen moving randomly until it's solved. 18:42:00 just because I've played hard so much 18:43:00 ehird, actually that won't work. Since you can't visit any tile twice, so you could make the level unfinishable by visiting them in the wrong order. 18:43:20 AnMaster: see? more boring sitting there moving randomly 18:43:21 happy now? 18:43:35 I disagree with the word "boring" there. 18:44:21 enigma level difficulty is classified into five categories: intelligence, dexterity, speed, knowledge, patience 18:44:29 , amount you are similar to AnMaster 18:44:30 as far as I can tell, AnMaster actually likes the patience levels 18:44:51 personally, I think patience levels are just annoying 18:44:58 I /can/ make Enigma levels larger than one screen, I just don't 18:45:54 ais523, I find that rather amusing, since nethack is very much about patience (as well as intelligence, luck and several other factors) 18:46:36 naw 18:46:39 I wouldn't say so 18:46:44 it's patience but not that kind of patience 18:48:12 * ais523 does Danger Flag again 18:48:20 that's 06 18:48:24 anyone here solve it yet? 18:48:28 that's intelligence, speed, and dexterity 18:48:28 ais523: i still don't get how you can do it with just the ones you have 18:48:45 also, I find speed levels rather intolerable 18:48:50 I'll tell you the solution if you like, but in /msg so as not to spoil it for everyone else 18:49:00 OK 18:49:15 I really like the meditation levels 18:50:51 -!- pikhq has quit ("leaving"). 18:51:45 I like some of them, but not others 18:53:04 what about 07, has anyone done that yet? 18:53:50 * ais523 suspects AnMaster is busy doing 10 18:54:18 ais523, correct, almost done though 18:55:09 anyone know a tiny light integrated board thing that can run linux & x11? 18:56:05 gumstix I used for a University project 18:56:10 it could manage that relatively easily 18:56:13 but the hardware quality is low 18:56:17 and ordering them from the US takes ages 18:56:19 define hardware quality 18:56:30 I mean, the ones we had broke, despite no abnormal use, within a few months 18:56:40 and some were broken on arrival and had to be sent back 18:56:58 ais523: and it could handle hooking up a screen and running x11? 18:57:23 " motherboard schematics and design information are proprietary" 18:57:33 yes, but you had to buy the screen separately 18:57:35 and it was rather small 18:57:38 " motherboard schematics and design information are proprietary" 18:57:43 solved it ais523 18:57:50 8:23 18:57:55 ehird: strange, because schematics were available 18:57:58 AnMaster: well done 18:58:07 ais523: only once you bought it, I guess 18:58:15 nah, they were on one of their websites 18:58:22 the problem is there were both gumstix.com and gumstix.org 18:58:29 ais523: this is for a Very Insane Project 18:58:29 which were run by the same company, but seemed to be competing anyway 18:58:37 and all sorts of other weird inconsistencies 18:58:51 ais523, it isn't hard really, you just need to plan ahead so the game doesn't become unfinishable. 18:59:04 actually, I'm doubting myself, even 18:59:05 and be careful so you don't hit it the wrong way 18:59:24 also, totally superfluous 18:59:33 i have zero need for it 18:59:44 I mean, one site would often say something was unavailable, and the other would have it 18:59:45 or whatever 18:59:53 ais523, are blocks random in 9? 18:59:56 there were also two contradictory and entirely different ways of how to build the things 19:00:00 if so, is it really always finishable? 19:00:01 AnMaster: yep, random oxyds 19:00:03 and yes, it is 19:00:05 hm 19:00:23 ais523: so, would you recommend these stix of gum 19:00:23 as I said earlier, fl-acwhite doesn't completely stop black marbles 19:00:37 ehird: not really, especially if you don't live in the US 19:00:49 ais523: darn 19:00:50 they do arrive eventually, and they do work for a while 19:00:51 what would you recommend instead 19:01:02 well, apparently blackfin's a major competitor to them 19:01:15 and I haven't heard anything bad about them, but I've never used them either 19:01:16 might be worth looking into 19:01:28 I suppose it depends on what I'm doing 19:01:30 :P 19:01:38 ais523, 09 is one of those levels where you miss "restore to previous snapshot" often found in zsnes and other such emulators. ;) 19:01:55 ais523: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Blackfin doesn't seem "complete" 19:02:00 AnMaster: run it in easy mode, then 19:02:01 how much do gumstix cost 19:02:02 as I said earlier, fl-acwhite doesn't completely stop black marbles <-- really? 19:02:17 AnMaster: no, they have zero mouseforce, but not infinite friction 19:02:25 go into that floor fast enough, and you come out the other side 19:02:35 ais523: do you know? 19:02:35 that's just basic Enigma knowledge, how did you not know that? 19:02:39 ehird: I did once 19:02:41 but I've forgotten 19:02:46 I may be able to find my old notes, though 19:02:48 ais523: guess he doesn't know how it works internally 19:02:50 like emacs! 19:02:51 hur hur hur 19:03:00 AnMaster: have you ever read the Enigma manual? 19:03:08 you should, half the game is a lot easier if you know how it works 19:03:16 ais523, yes, when I first tried it 19:03:24 wasn't much of a manual iirc. 19:03:30 and yes it was ages ago 19:03:44 well, you should at least know from experimentation that no floor stops you instantly 19:03:57 engima 0.90 or something like that, maybe 0.92 19:04:16 ais523, I usually go slow because I suck at mouse handling at high speed. 19:04:34 but yes not instantly indeed. 19:04:56 ais523, anyway, that level, is it always possible to solve without going very fast? 19:05:01 ais523: my insane project would be "trying to make my own smartphone" 19:05:15 which is why I wanted a tiny light board that can run linux & x11 19:05:15 AnMaster: I'd say yes, moving the marble fast enough to go two squares at once is not "very fast" 19:05:27 although I'm not certain how you hook the actual phoney phone stuff up 19:05:50 ais523, what if you drop "very" then? 19:06:00 it's easiest to do playing slowly 19:06:28 after all, if you have the mouseforce set to a sane value rather than 2 or 3, you hardly need to move the mouse in order to skid two squares rather than one 19:07:03 it would be very disappointing if you missed out on the 70% or 80% of Enigma levels which require the ability to move multiple squares at a time... 19:07:14 ais523, what is the difference between easy and hard on that level apart from the first tile not being a different type compared to the rest of the floor? 19:07:25 there isn't one 19:07:27 except: 19:07:36 if the first tile is different, that means pressing f3 lets you go back to it 19:07:40 so you get three chances at the level 19:07:54 if the first tile isn't different, pressing f3 is fatal, because you'd just land back on a square you couldn't move on 19:07:56 ah that makes sense 19:08:01 so it's the difference between one chance and three chances 19:08:28 http://code.google.com/p/cadie/source/browse/trunk/CADIE.I <--- that's better 19:08:29 hrm 19:08:38 wow 19:08:40 ais523: you got commit access? 19:09:50 yes 19:09:55 ais523: awesome 19:10:25 now to test J-INTERCAL on it 19:10:41 ok solved 09 19:11:16 AnMaster: how fast, btw? 19:11:23 2:01 19:11:35 on easy but didn't use f3 19:11:44 dododood 19:12:16 ais523, and I was brute forcing randomness of the first two I hit (restarting level until they were same colour. I did end up needing to cross white once only 19:12:27 so mostly by luck 19:13:54 anyway the name "tourism" made it rather clear what the level was about. So I wonder why ehird didn't manage to figure it out himself... 19:15:02 sure a bit of thought yes, but after noticing visited tiles were covered by marble passable tiles, the correct solution was the only one left. 19:15:23 AnMaster: maybe ehird's never heard of the Knight's Tour? 19:15:42 ais523, well that could explain it indeed. 19:15:45 well,* 19:16:28 -!- oerjan has joined. 19:16:51 ais523, how are those intelligence, dexterity, speed, ... ratings made? 19:16:59 a unicorn 19:17:02 it decides all the rating 19:17:02 s 19:17:07 they just ask it 19:17:10 and it gives them the ratings 19:17:15 very helpful that unicorn 19:17:24 AnMaster: they're determined by the maintainers and public opinion, I think 19:17:32 but there are relatively objective guidelines for deciding the 19:17:33 ais523, ah 19:17:34 *them 19:19:29 ais523, do you like the level "In Sync" (enigma III #83)? 19:20:36 no 19:20:47 ais523, and another question: What exactly do the knowledge rating mean. Knowledge of game mechanics? Knowledge of how to solve the level (requiring trial and error to figure out right way)? Or something else? 19:20:55 knowledge of game mechanics 19:21:04 knowledge is completely objective, and depends on just which mechanics are in your level 19:21:05 * AnMaster rather liked In Sync 19:21:14 not the best one, but rather interesting 19:21:54 so something like my 09, or III/26, has knowledge 6 due to having unique mechanics of its own 19:22:06 knowledge 5 means you're exploiting really obscure behaviour of the core 19:22:13 like spring over laser, or chess stone on swamp 19:22:34 what does chess stone on swap do? 19:22:53 I wonder where you can buy touchscreens 19:23:30 AnMaster: sinks gradually 19:23:54 knowledge 4 is for obscure or misleading things that don't involve interactions, like fake abyss or coffee stones 19:24:03 ais523, ok that isn't too surprising, considering that is what marbles do too 19:24:17 3 is the typical knowledge level, the advanced tutorial hits most of the limits of knowledge 3 19:24:27 coffee stone? I thought it was an object 19:24:29 1 is only for really obvious things, like death stones 19:24:33 AnMaster: it's an item and a stone 19:24:43 huh ok 19:24:44 coffee stones are opaque and fixed, but turn transparent and movable if you hit them 19:24:52 and both states are disguised as something else 19:24:57 I'm not sure if they were ever used 19:24:58 anyone know? 19:24:58 12:31 < ais523> instead of naming the new module after him, they went and called their newest treadmill the Combined Operational Load Bearing External Resistance Treadmill 19:25:06 ais523, why are they named coffee stones? 19:25:13 AnMaster: I don't know 19:25:19 now if he had just had a name ending with M, he'd have been all set 19:25:33 Colbertum 19:26:55 hrrrrrrrrrm 19:27:35 12:31 < ais523> instead of naming the new module after him, they went and called their newest treadmill the Combined Operational Load Bearing External Resistance Treadmill <-- context? it doesn't seem to be from 12:31 today (Checked Norwegian timezone and UTC) 19:28:18 AnMaster: kerlo's logs, see topic 19:28:28 *aka ihope 19:28:41 oerjan, but which timezone is it? 19:28:46 AnMaster: u s of a 19:28:56 just like clog's 19:29:01 (mayitrestinpeace) 19:29:09 ehird, US west cost and east cost are in different timezones 19:29:16 w/e 19:29:18 also why is clog down? 19:29:20 * oerjan swats AnMaster -----### 19:29:23 because it is, AnMaster 19:29:38 i'd contact the server admin, only I don't know who that is. 19:29:42 I'll ask #tunes 19:29:49 translated: reason unknown? 19:30:07 AnMaster: it crashed and nobody restarted it 19:30:16 -!- neldoreth has joined. 19:30:38 ah, NASA came up with an interesting solution to the whole Colbert thing <-- so what is this Colbert thing then. 19:30:50 context didn't really explain it in this case to me. 19:31:04 >_< 19:31:07 AnMaster: just give it up 19:31:08 it's not important 19:31:16 tl;dr people voted Colbert, as in stephen colbert 19:31:20 for the name of a new nasa module 19:31:21 The thing is that Colbert is trying to name everything after him 19:31:28 nasa didn't like that, because colbert does this all the time 19:31:33 so they got around it with an acronym 19:31:44 um that's not getting around it 19:31:53 sure it is :P 19:31:56 ah that thing 19:31:59 they'd probably have made a backronym regardless, don't you think 19:32:06 AnMaster: if you want to ask who stephen colbert is, google.com 19:32:07 ehird, "tl;dr"? 19:32:17 someone said that it was Colbert's job to exploit bugs in buggy public processes 19:32:18 oerjan: for "Glider" or "Elegance" or whatever they were offering? 19:32:18 naw. 19:32:25 * oerjan hits AnMaster with the saucepan ====\___/ 19:32:29 too lazy; didn't google 19:32:30 ehird, the name does sound familiar.. hm... Comedy central or something iirc? 19:32:36 AnMaster: yes. 19:32:40 colbert report. satirical news show. 19:33:36 ais523: btw did you notice/did anyone paste here the reddit about the Times' top 100 list voting? 19:33:37 too lazy; didn't google <-- from when would that be? 19:33:46 *reddited link 19:33:50 AnMaster: when you asked what "tl;dr" meant 19:33:55 er, *Time 19:35:13 ehird, You were quoting me saying that. Did I ever say it? I don't think so. But if you could provide timestamp? 19:35:23 AnMaster: Whoooooooooosh! 19:35:25 WHOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOSH! 19:35:28 19:35:44 ahhh !!! 19:36:08 ehird, I guess that translates to that I never said it indeed. 19:36:44 http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1883644_1886141,00.html 19:36:54 hahaha: someone on Reddit said that the easy way to get Reddit markdown working properly was to go over to stackoverflow and preview the comment there, then copy the markdown back to reddit and paste it 19:37:32 ais523, so reddit doesn't have a preview function? 19:37:41 apparently not, based on that 19:37:48 I don't know, I don't have a username 19:37:48 (hint, look at the initial letters) 19:37:59 reddit people go on about how it has a low barrier to entry, but it's higher than Slashdot's or Wikipedia's 19:38:02 and also requires JS 19:38:06 #1 moot 19:38:09 oh 4chan <3 19:38:49 marblecakealsothegame 19:38:52 I see. 19:39:50 ooh they have a video 19:41:40 http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1883644_1889408_1889412,00.html 19:41:45 MOOT VS RAIN 19:41:48 WEATHER, OR PERSON? 19:41:50 YOU DECIDE. 19:42:43 D: 19:44:15 why the sad smiley? 19:44:45 ais523: know any common small screen sizes? 19:44:54 resolutions 19:44:56 um 19:45:01 MARBLECAKEALSOTHEGAME 19:45:03 just a huge "page requires flash" 19:45:11 AnMaster: I wonder why that may be. 19:45:20 Let me think. Oh, I know. 19:45:20 oops, sorry. 19:45:23 ehird: 320*240 is /very/ common 19:45:23 It's because it requires flash. 19:45:29 both for http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1883644_1889408_1889412,00.html and http://www.time.com/time/specials/packages/article/0,28804,1883644_1886141,00.html 19:45:39 ais523: it's a bit square for a candybar-style phone 19:45:53 AnMaster: If you enabled Flash, you'd get a video. If not, your loss. 19:46:14 ehird: ah, yes, phone screens are generally even smaller 19:46:31 ais523: nah, not touchscreens 19:46:49 the iphone is 480x320 @ 3.5i 19:46:54 *in 19:47:14 the G1 is the same res @ 3.2in 19:47:26 so I guess 480x320 is the done thing 19:47:35 swap those for horizontal mode ofc 19:47:41 ehird, btw, had you never heard of knight's tour before ais mentioned it today? 19:47:50 AnMaster: it rings a bell 19:48:02 hm 19:48:27 then odd you couldn't figure out that Tourism level... 19:48:47 -!- olsner has joined. 19:50:32 wonder how much a 3.x in 480x320 touchscreen costs. 19:53:13 really, the Time acrostic ordering... blows my mind.. >_> 19:54:07 Is XP antivirus 2009 compatible with Vista? 19:54:07 I got a new computer running windows Vista but I already paid for XP antivirus 2009 on my old computer.Will I be able to transfer it to my new one or is only compatible with windows XP? 19:54:09 5 months ago 19:54:11 Additional Details 19:54:13 I have paid $50 for that program and I'm going to use it if I can. 19:54:15 5 months ago 19:54:17 Can you also give me the link to re download it because they didn't send me a CD 19:54:19 5 months ago 19:54:21 please help me I google it but all I can find is remove instructions not the likn to download it. help I'm losing my $50 19:54:24 5 months ago 19:54:26 http://answers.yahoo.com/question/index?qid=20081130123314AAe3klv 19:54:53 were there any sensible answers? 19:55:01 ais523: all of them 19:55:03 but the asker didn't listen 19:55:04 "Well,since you insist to use it,yes all trojan and viruses are compatible with all windows platforms." 19:55:11 factually false, amusingly 19:55:17 heh. 19:55:18 but close enough 19:55:26 yes, I'd like to see some 64-bit viruses! 19:55:33 I'm slightly surprised that was chosen as best 19:55:39 Gracenotes: I'm sure there are some by now, surely? 19:55:44 ais523: it said it was compatible, see the author's note 19:55:47 which is "help" 19:55:48 Vista x64 is probably a bigger install base than Linux 19:55:55 oh, possibly. It is a reasonable market 19:56:04 ais523: well.. for PCs anyway 19:56:12 yes, I mean on desktop computers 19:56:12 19:54 slava has joined (n=slava@li13-154.members.linode.com) 19:56:12 19:54 slava: any news about clog? 19:56:28 Even Slava Pestov is hurt by the drastic clog outage! 19:57:17 who's slava? 19:57:40 ais523: Slava Pestov, author of jedit and the Factor stack language 19:58:22 ah 19:58:37 anyone know any free-as-in-tibet non-dejavu/bitstream-vera fonts? 19:58:39 ais523, I would give Tourism a rating of 10 btw. :) 19:59:07 AnMaster: you mean you liked it? 19:59:12 indeed 19:59:21 ais523, do you plan to submit these levels for inclusion in future engima versions? 19:59:28 (if that is how it works?) 20:00:00 AnMaster: maybe some of them; I haven't looked up the process 20:00:24 hmm... http://www.nongnu.org/enigma/ 20:00:27 interesting domain name 20:00:31 ehird: you mean a font that isn't really a subset of CJK, but which will have you beaten up by the chinese if you claim so? 20:00:32 which I vaguely recognise 20:00:49 oerjan: :-) 20:00:56 ais523: Svannah. 20:00:59 *Savannah. 20:01:06 A shit sourceforge ripoff started because sf wasn't open soucre 20:01:10 *source 20:01:15 It has many qualities, including being shit. 20:01:40 excreme programming 20:03:55 "Eliezer fancies himself as a thinker for the morality of the future, but his vision of morality is the ancient rotting cadaver of collectivist egalitarian altruistic utilitarianism, as inculcated to him by his judeo-christian upbringing (judeo in this case)." — François-René Rideau, founder of the TUNES project 20:03:58 I have only a few words 20:04:02 WHAT THE FUCK ARE YOU TALKING ABOUT 20:04:37 * oerjan guesses rideau is a libertarian 20:04:43 oerjan: very. 20:04:50 which i vaguely recall too 20:04:56 IIIIIIIIINCULATED 20:04:59 no wait, inculcated 20:05:03 too many cs. 20:05:44 basically rideau doesn't understand that if a AGI were libertarian, we would ALL DIE 20:06:05 oerjan: Amended General Idiot? 20:06:16 artificial general intelligence 20:06:22 *an 20:06:27 but of course 20:06:56 i believe yudkowsky uses that term 20:07:03 "Eliezer is brilliant but I agree he is not selfish enough. Good job taking him on." 20:07:09 no, you can't have any sweets. 20:07:13 no, I'm not going to eat them 20:07:14 *push* 20:07:18 i didn't push you. 20:07:25 he started it! 20:08:32 i suppose one _could_ create an AGI to enforce libertarianism, though. 20:09:15 brb. 20:09:17 i don't know enough about libertarianism to know if that would be truly paradoxical 20:10:06 -!- Dewi has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:11:03 * oerjan ponders the possibility that maybe he is the only person in the universe. not because of solipsism, but because i once was a selfish libertarian creating an AI 20:11:42 actually no, i would have had to be a masochist too 20:15:39 oerjan: that would be really quite interesting 20:15:46 have you ever considered that you may be a simulation of yourself? 20:16:03 as in, of someone who exists, and in fact programmed you to be the same as them? 20:16:10 um wait, recursively? 20:20:38 i don't think i could be the same as anyone who _would_ do such a thing 20:21:03 re the masochist part 20:21:29 unless of course my morals go strongly downhill in the future 20:21:37 hahaha: http://www.mag-heut.net/blackball/index.php?act=ST&f=9&t=1131&s=85d3bb14b8ff01e0ef75f19c7206463d 20:26:52 13:24 < ais523> as Google says, INTERCAL has become best known for a feature that wasn't even in the original 20:27:00 a bit like haskell and monads 20:27:08 wow, they weren't in original haskell? 20:27:10 how did it do I/O? 20:27:23 nope, it used command streams 20:27:51 with a continuation library wrapping it for sanity, i think 20:28:35 a program was a function that took a stream of results as input and returned a stream of requests 20:28:50 (and yes, that's not swapped) 20:29:23 Wasn't it just main :: [String] -> String -> String originally 20:29:30 using the underlying streams directly had frequent deadlock problems 20:29:32 I.e. args -> stdin -> stdout 20:29:42 oerjan: that's brilliant, it's the solution Thutu uses to the same problem 20:29:43 Deewiant: no 20:30:00 the interesting thing about Thutu using that solution, of course, is that as a strict language there's an utterly obvious solution but it didn't use it 20:30:01 Hmm, wonder where I got that from 20:30:21 Deewiant: the interact function does that today 20:30:27 Yes, I know 20:30:30 Minus the command line args 20:30:37 (Of course) 20:30:39 but that can only do a single stdin -> stdout 20:30:53 Yes, I don't think there's an hInteract 20:31:22 Deewiant: well you can obviously build one with hGetContents 20:31:33 Sure, the primitives are all there 20:32:09 -!- neldoret1 has joined. 20:32:33 unless there was a haskell version that couldn't do file IO at all 20:35:07 I think there was 20:35:15 But it's possible I'm wrong 20:35:37 * oerjan found http://www.cse.unsw.edu.au/~dons/haskell-1990-2006/msg01089.html but that's too late 20:35:56 although historically interesting 20:37:58 "Thus in the Haskell 1.0 Report, we first defined I/O in terms of streams, but also included a completely equivalent design based on continuations." 20:39:03 heh, i just found that myself 20:39:09 (http://research.microsoft.com/en-us/um/people/simonpj/papers/history-of-haskell/) 20:48:48 -!- neldoreth has quit (No route to host). 20:51:34 hmm... it seems that the way for a website owner to opt out of Phorm is to block Google and Yahoo in their robots.txt 20:51:43 I don't exactly call that a sensible way to opt-out... 20:51:55 as in, their opt-out code is exactly the same code that blocks google and yahoo 21:06:11 ais523: ah, good ol Phorm. 21:06:12 not. 21:06:31 * ehird switching to an isp whose co-founder has explicitly referenced phorm negatively on a mailing list :P 21:06:46 * AnMaster spent some time sending abuse@ emails today. Got sick of all spam. 21:07:01 AnMaster: congrats, you wasted a bunch of time. 21:07:03 well spambots, not email spam. 21:07:15 even more amusingly, it's not just looking at * rules 21:07:16 so I do know the ip it came from 21:07:24 but specifically for Googlebot and Slurp if there isn't a * rule 21:07:41 their reasoning, apparently, is that a website owner is happy with their data being harvested if they're letting search engines look at it 21:07:44 since you can't fake that when connecting to irc and the server is set up to require a matching PONG before allowing connection. 21:09:07 also, even if you opt-out as a visitor (using cookies), every single web page request you make is redirected twice 21:09:13 it can be up to three times if you don't opt out 21:09:32 ehird, one of the IPs seems to be allocated to cogent themselves. I somehow suspect they won't take that lightly if one of their own computers is infected. 21:09:43 so I have some hopes of results in that case. 21:10:04 AnMaster: you gaping chasm reality 21:10:12 some people do care about abuse@ 21:10:28 in fact, sufficiently few people bother to try it nowadays that I wouldn't be surprised if large ISPs could handle the load easily 21:10:58 well I would assume it since it is listed as allocated to Cogent Communications directly. Their main office specifically. 21:11:11 I highly doubt it's true AnMaster 21:11:30 ehird, Are you saying the whois result is faked? 21:11:35 on the IP I mean 21:11:45 I'm saying I doubt a cogent hq system is spamming 21:11:59 ehird, I think it was an automated trojan software 21:12:14 considering there were loads with the same message from many different IPs and ISPs 21:12:20 as opposed to a manual trojan, AnMaster? 21:12:34 ehird, as opposed to a single person typing it manually 21:12:35 "Please POST to this address with this contents: 'cheap viagra'" 21:12:39 no shit 21:14:27 wtf? 21:14:37 I interpret that POST as referring to snail mail, not the HTTP request 21:14:43 but it's pretty WTFy both ways 21:15:23 and it was spambots spamming download links containing trojans, nothing about viagra there. 21:18:45 ais523, and why do people not use abuse@ more often I wonder. 21:19:25 AnMaster: because abuse@ is based on the way the Internet is meant to work, not on the way it does work 21:19:56 ais523, well true, some whois replies list other emails such as anti_spam@ instead. 21:20:07 no, you're missing the point 21:20:19 I'm not entirely sure if there's any way to explain what the point is to you, though 21:20:20 ais523, probably, but remember I'm an idealist(sp?) 21:20:23 in this case 21:20:25 21:18 AnMaster: ais523, and why do people not use abuse@ more often I wonder. 21:20:25 21:19 ais523: AnMaster: because abuse@ is based on the way the Internet is meant to work, not on the way it does work 21:20:28 21:19 AnMaster: ais523, well true, some whois replies list other emails such as anti_spam@ instead. 21:20:31 XD 21:20:36 that's the most concise description of AnMaster yet 21:21:11 ais523, you mean that most people simply gave up because the ISPs didn't care? 21:21:27 or something like that I 21:21:29 I guess* 21:21:31 well, and the sheer volume of abuse@ things which would have to be sent 21:21:51 think about it this way: something like 90% of email is spam 21:22:09 ais523, well indeed, and then there is spambots on irc too (which this case was about) 21:22:18 which means that if each spam had a corresponding abuse@, then email would be 9:9:1 spam:abuse:legitimate 21:22:19 and on IM and so on 21:22:26 nobody could handle that workload 21:22:43 ais523, probably a lot would be for the same IP though 21:22:51 or sender 21:23:46 ais523, anyway the largest issue is faked senders for email. An issue which doesn't exist when figuring out the IPs for spambots on irc. Or the registrar of the domain they spammed (which contained a trojan) 21:25:24 New features in this release include: 21:25:25 * Ported to all major Lisp systems 21:25:27 wow 21:25:31 yale haskell was written in lisp 21:25:34 circa 1993 21:26:28 -!- neldoreth has joined. 21:26:48 -!- neldoret1 has quit (Client Quit). 21:28:37 -!- jix has joined. 21:29:08 To run this release, you need a Sun4 or Sun3, probably with 16+MB 21:29:08 memory, and GNU C (gcc), version 2.1 or greater, and "perl". 21:30:04 ehird, sounds sane for an old software? 21:30:24 * AnMaster wonders why ehird pasted that 21:31:42 it seems pretty old 21:31:43 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 21:31:52 also, requiring specifically a Sun? 21:32:03 also, it's /decades/ since people wrote the name of Perl in quotes 21:32:25 ais523, well that was a bit strange, why would anyone use quotes for it 21:32:31 name of the executable 21:32:34 like "cat", or "grep" 21:33:06 ais523, that doesn't really explain it though. Since it is the name of the software as well as the executable. 21:33:13 thought that would have been Perl 21:33:17 ais523: well, 1993 21:33:23 rather than "perl" 21:33:27 "perl" it really sounds like they don't know what it is 21:33:34 you need this "perl" thing if you've heard of i 21:33:35 t 21:34:53 * GHC provides an extensible I/O system, based on a "monad" [1]. (The 21:34:53 standard Haskell I/O system is built on this foundation.) 21:35:02 - Ability to write arbitrary in-line C-language code, using 21:35:02 the I/O monad to retain referential transparency. 21:35:04 WUT 21:35:22 Huh 21:35:32 Presumably you can write C code which will act as an I/O monad. 21:35:52 GregorR: I assume it was something like ghcMagicC :: String -> IO () 21:36:21 I've never heard of it, but I was assuming it would be built into the grammar and that the C code could be * -> IO (*) 21:37:36 Main shortcomings 21:37:36 ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ 21:37:38 * No interactive system. This is a batch compiler only. (Any 21:37:40 volunteers?) 21:37:43 [...] 21:37:44 * This system should run on any Unix box. We haven't had time to do 21:37:46 any non-Sun ports. Help or prodding welcome. 21:37:55 lol 21:38:04 it's like a time machine 21:39:09 http://www.mag-heut.net/blackball/index.php?act=ST&f=9&t=1131&s=85d3bb14b8ff01e0ef75f19c7206463d 21:39:22 oh 21:39:24 ais523 linked it 21:39:29 I was wondering where it came from 21:40:13 Hmm ... okay, so my message was quite obviously an April (or March) 21:40:14 Fool's Day joke, wasn't it? Of course there is no such bug as a timing 21:40:15 disaster in Enigma ... at least not yet! ;) 21:40:17 lame! 21:40:21 ais523: i thought it was true :( 21:40:26 so did I, to start with 21:40:32 it was a pretty good april fools bug report 21:40:39 especially as it had a plausible reason for being on april 1 21:40:39 I guess because I'm the kind of person to implant that 21:41:09 ais523: heh, seen enigma VI #10? 21:41:57 yes 21:42:01 I don't know how it's done, though 21:42:54 #15 is awesome 21:44:35 really? 21:44:38 -!- neldoreth has quit ("Lost terminal"). 21:44:43 it struck me as relatively clever, but mildly annoying 21:44:50 ofc 21:45:05 I'm not a fan of annoying levels 21:46:36 ais523: what do you think of #35 21:46:43 what do you think of oxyd #45? 21:46:45 it's one of my favourites 21:47:03 ais523: aieeeeeeeeee 21:47:15 and #35, I haven't figured yet 21:47:17 -!- neldoreth has joined. 21:47:24 although I suspect it involves an umbrella 21:48:28 why the aieee, anyway? 21:48:33 it's a nice clever intelligence level 21:48:50 also, I love apparently more or less symmetrical puzzles with very asymmetrical solutions 21:49:03 ehird probably thinks it's acheived self-awareness 21:49:12 *achieved 21:49:23 ehird achieved self-awareness? 21:49:31 Don't be silly. 21:49:35 ouch 21:49:44 no silly, the intelligence level 21:49:51 http://improveverywhere.com/2009/04/01/best-funeral-ever/ 21:50:42 -!- neldoreth has quit (Client Quit). 21:52:15 what do you think of oxyd #45? <-- "Letter bomb"? 21:52:19 yes 21:52:23 no the other oxyd 45 21:52:24 * AnMaster tries it 21:53:13 -!- neldoreth has joined. 21:53:14 ehird, well it was a valid question because: #33: Oxyd 79 21:53:27 ...wut? 21:53:29 so there could have been a Oxyd 45 21:53:31 ah. 21:53:37 with a different number 21:53:41 that's why I added the # 21:54:19 ais523, wasn't aware that was the reason for the # 21:55:09 -!- GreaseMonkey has joined. 21:58:35 ais523, hm.. about that letter bomb... Knowledge 5 I see 21:58:43 and I have no idea about how it would work 21:58:56 what sort of thing in the game mechanics is it exploiting? 21:59:55 explosions destroy items 21:59:58 and pipes are an ite 21:59:59 *item 22:00:09 5 is for unusual interactoins between multiple items 22:00:13 and I don't think that one's used very often 22:00:26 hm 22:00:34 it is explained in a document on the level, though, so that isn't even a spoiler 22:01:53 even so I don't see how this would help you reach any of the stones. 22:02:17 well, wooden block bridging over abyss is a very well known interaction 22:02:23 indeed 22:02:42 but afaik you can't destroy walls with explosions 22:02:56 you can destroy black bomb dispensers with bomb explosions 22:03:08 is it an item? huh 22:10:12 "Categories: Joke languages | Implemented | Unimplemented | 2008" 22:10:33 :D 22:10:34 link 22:10:51 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Schrodilang 22:11:08 * ehird groans 22:11:24 Since the only interpreter is supposedly at the bottom of a sea, it's hard to tell if it exists or not 22:11:30 I guess 22:11:33 FireFly: no, it's the radioactive decay thing 22:11:40 the joke is that s/cat/implementation floppy/ 22:11:43 s/poison/magnet/ 22:11:52 ..ah 22:11:55 hm I would have expected oerjan behind that 22:11:57 it should be 22:12:04 "it's hard to tell if it exists or not" indeed 22:12:04 rather than GregorR 22:12:10 {{randomize|[[Category:Implemented]]|[[Category:Unimplemented]}} 22:12:10 that's the whole point I think :P 22:12:11 which is what the history tab says 22:12:33 That makes sense, isn't Schrödlingers Cat an experiment about something being in multiple states at the same time? 22:12:45 E.g. interpreted and not interpreted at the same time 22:12:51 >_< 22:12:57 FireFly: go google it before I whack you with a cluebat 22:12:59 ehird, I don't think that would work, even if mediawiki had such a macro (does it?). Since it stores category list at edit time iirc. 22:13:06 :( 22:13:54 maybe you could add a blurb about the categorization of that page being in dispute since it is not possible to determine which state the language falls under 22:15:13 22:14 cristi_ceata: Cale: have you read "Yet another haskell tutorial"? 22:17:18 was there a stupid reply to that? 22:17:35 ais523: do you know who Cale is? 22:17:38 -!- Hiato has joined. 22:17:40 no 22:17:51 ais523: he runs lambdabot :-) 22:17:58 heh 22:18:03 well, /has/ he read yaht? 22:18:11 I think it's bloody well likely! :-P 22:18:13 it's entirely plausible you could get good at Haskell some other way 22:18:25 well, back then the only other tutorial was... gentle introduction? 22:18:27 and never need to read a tutorial after that 22:18:31 which is useful to, uh, hardcore ML programmers. 22:18:35 there must have been at least two 22:18:38 or the name is incorrect 22:18:51 ais523: it was implied in a sense of "do you know " 22:21:32 * oerjan thinks they should have sneaked in a c before that h 22:23:54 * oerjan notices FireFly just deserved a swat -----### 22:24:52 ais523: haha, wow, #tunes is full of info atm 22:25:02 they're disillusioned with how badly the server's been run... 22:25:03 No problem 22:25:05 since BEFORE 2000! 22:25:42 and still no one's managed to get clog back? 22:25:58 oerjan: he pinged hcf/nef, I told him it's not nef's responsibility any more, now he's pinging root 22:26:07 who I guess is faré or someone 22:26:24 and I suppose he'll tell us to stop being collectivist pigs and capatalize a server 22:26:27 *capitalize 22:27:06 *OINK* 22:28:06 22:27 BrianRice: TUNES really doesn't matter as an OS, anyway. not without the higher level bits which require heavy duty CS research (which is slowly coming together)v 22:28:09 * ehird yawns 22:28:47 the operating system needs heavy duty CS research before they can write it? 22:28:49 what is TUNES like? 22:29:01 ais523: very, very dissatisfied. 22:29:22 also, they were doing the high level language first 22:29:24 then a low level language 22:29:26 then the OS 22:29:32 it was very, very comprehensive. 22:29:33 * oerjan wonders where the pun is 22:29:50 By 2005 it had become clear that we must leverage mainstream software to make TUNES a reality, imperfectly at first, so that we might benefit from immediate practical applications and real-world experience. A few years later, armed with better tools and experience, we can write a new compiler and operating system within TUNES, replacing the messy underpinnings of our imperfect prototype with a clean, manageable infrastructure that supports our highest as 22:29:52 pirations. At least that's the plan! 22:30:03 It's 2008 now. If a few dedidated hackers can find the time and money to put some sustained effort into it, we could have a working prototype by 2010, with widespread use by 2015 or 2020. 22:30:05 do we even know what the OS is going to be like? 22:30:12 ais523: no, they haven't decided yet. 22:30:18 s/they/we/; it's a community projet 22:30:20 *project 22:30:23 ais523: there ARE documents 22:30:48 ais523: lemme find the most explanatory ones 22:30:58 oh, here's one from david madore of unlambda fam 22:30:58 e 22:30:59 http://www.madore.org/~david/computers/tunes.html 22:31:19 lemme find Fare's original 22:31:25 I wonder if tunes were thinking about basing it on an esolang? 22:31:31 maybe that's why they were logging us 22:31:40 ais523: http://tunes.org/new/Review/cddb.html 22:31:58 "But though Far. is very good at explaining things orally (my humble opinion, of course), nothing he says is comprehensible when he starts writing things down (my humble opinion again, of course)." :D 22:32:21 well http://tunes.org/new/Review/cddb.html is quite readable 22:34:00 this conversation is fun 22:34:04 we're all calling faré kooks 22:35:47 several kooks? 22:37:01 Heh, somebody dug up Shrodilang. 22:37:05 I remember making that :P 22:37:13 No problem~ 22:37:19 GregorR: we will dissect you and extract knowledge of the language from your brain 22:38:09 talking to brian rice and slava pestov at once is rather fun. 22:38:09 -!- Hiato has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 22:38:54 Talking to brain rice and slavic pasta at once is rather fun. 22:39:05 Very. 22:39:37 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:41:25 -!- M0ny has quit ("PEW PEW"). 22:42:26 So. 22:45:29 So? 22:45:46 That is SO Tacoma way. 22:45:46 SO? 22:49:38 So! 22:51:02 So. 22:51:11 so... 22:51:18 ...so? 22:51:23 The. 22:51:45 22:52:00 So. 22:52:04 22:52:07 -!- pikhq has joined. 22:52:09 SO. 22:52:12 Sorry, I'm getting tired 22:52:19 \SO 22:52:20 S O 22:52:36 Just make an Ook with So's 22:52:55 And you can program while you chat, in real meme style 22:53:01 Sh! You'll wake the Oomoo! 23:02:31 -!- psygnisfive has quit ("Leaving..."). 23:17:32 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:28:58 a 23:40:52 hmm... it'd be cool having a lang which is good for team-coding 23:41:24 oh wait, that's called BASIC 23:41:39 well, it'd be cool having a lang with BASIC line numbering 23:41:43 in this case 23:44:12 ................ wtf. 23:44:22 By what stretch of the imagination is line-numbering good for team coding? 23:44:32 what GregorR said 23:45:46 oooooh 23:45:55 real number line numbering! 23:46:05 lawl 23:46:54 O_O 23:47:15 Preferably only numbers between 0 and 1, upper-exclusive. 23:48:43 * ehird plays with maxmsp 23:55:52 max msp is... a graph language. cool.