00:00:01 Oh 00:00:05 you're all welcome. 00:00:08 Wait 00:00:10 Slereah: i have no idea what that was about 00:00:28 wasnt sure if thats what you were talking about or not :D 00:00:34 however you can avoid -> if you let forall have a premise 00:00:58 oerjan: eh? 00:01:03 You could do the Schonfinkel thingy 00:01:13 ehird: P -> Q = forall a \in P : Q 00:01:27 that's what CoC does iirc 00:01:29 Use the ∀x.x|y symbol 00:01:34 Wait 00:01:37 What was it again 00:01:52 Slereah: i'm not unicode clean 00:02:48 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 00:02:57 There we go 00:03:03 With my rules: 00:03:09 Using the definition of xor: 00:03:09 (A ⊕ B) = (A ∧ ¬B) ∨ (¬A ∧ ¬B) 00:03:12 We get 00:03:13 A ⊕ B = ∀C. ((∀C. (A ⇒ ((B ⇒ ⊥) ⇒ C)) ⇒ C) ⇒ C) ⇒ (((∀C. ((A ⇒ ⊥) ⇒ (B ⇒ C)) ⇒ C) ⇒ C) ⇒ C) 00:03:18 Delightfully verbose. 00:03:42 f(x) |^x g(x) = forall x. f(x)|g(x) 00:03:57 er (¬A ∧ B) ofc 00:04:21 http://pastie.org/465557.txt?key=nevd9omyyjsa2nvbn4g 00:04:22 Logix 00:04:40 oerjan: do you know why that xor is so verbose? 00:04:44 i'd expect it to be shorter 00:04:53 ehird: CoC logic is intuitionistic, so A -> B is _not_ (¬A \/ B) 00:04:54 i suppose it has some redundant clauses 00:05:10 oerjan: agreed. 00:05:54 i don't think xor is a particularly intuitive operation :D 00:06:11 Very true :P 00:06:21 ok im off guys 00:06:24 see ya <3 00:06:26 bye 00:06:29 oerjan: now to translate that to haskell 00:06:34 check out that paper oerjan 00:06:38 its cool 00:09:24 type Bottom = forall a. a 00:09:24 type Not a = a -> Bottom 00:09:25 type a `And` b = forall c. (a -> (b -> c)) -> c 00:09:27 type a `Or` b = forall c. (a -> c) -> ((b -> c) -> c) 00:09:29 type a `Xor` b = (a `And` Not b) `Or` (Not a `And` b) 00:09:31 now to prove modus ponens 00:09:47 huh so that's what wolfram looks like http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/technology/8026331.stm 00:10:09 looks like my math teacher 00:10:22 Hm. 00:10:26 I just had an idea 00:10:27 i had imagined him rather more maniacal, with huge hair 00:10:35 A slashfic Wolfram/ais 00:10:47 That he finally solved his problem made him so horny 00:10:57 He gave him his special "wolfram prize" 00:11:38 no dice, wolfram only breeds with CAs 00:12:06 dammit, modus ponens doesn't type yet 00:12:25 oh, trivial mistake 00:12:26 now it does 00:13:08 What is ehird doing? 00:13:23 Slereah: translated my implies-and-bottom logics to haskell 00:13:59 Slereah: oerjan: http://hpaste.org/fastcgi/hpaste.fcgi/view?id=4466 00:14:12 "How old are you now? You're 20?" "Yes" "You've hit the double-digits!" 00:14:30 Sgeo_: *facepalm* 00:14:31 er wait 00:14:34 Sgeo_'s 20? 00:14:59 (in base 20) 00:16:46 ehird, as of today 00:17:00 Sgeo_: The world would start making a lot more sense if I stopped viewing 20 as a bastion of maturity. 00:17:18 i'm 38, and definitely not mature 00:17:34 ...did you just say that I'm immature? 00:17:44 Sgeo_: no 00:17:50 Sgeo_: Mmmmmaaaaayyyyyyyyyyyynooooooooyyyyyyyyyybe. 00:18:19 ehird: needs more s's 00:18:34 Ssssssssssssssssssseeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeintercourse. 00:18:59 Sgeo_: Congrats. 00:19:04 ty 00:19:10 * pikhq has another ~year to go before hitting 20. 00:19:12 oerjan: say, how could I implement a boolean with this? 00:19:13 seintercourse? sorry i don't speak french that well 00:19:19 hmm 00:19:26 a→a→a, maybe? :-P 00:19:50 I'm trying to define (type Set a = a -> Bool), 'cept without using Bool since that's against the rules 00:19:52 well the system F definition is something like 00:20:02 forall a. a -> a -> a 00:20:05 i think 00:20:30 oerjan: right but that's sort of tautological 00:20:43 since there aren't really distinct a's in the type system, right? 00:21:08 hm 00:21:33 that's too subtle for me at this time, i'm about to go to bed 00:21:38 :-D 00:21:49 oerjan: maybe: 00:21:57 a→b→a or b 00:21:58 ? 00:23:30 oh well 00:23:45 although that's not really conditional any more 00:24:05 anyway, bed -> 00:24:09 bye 00:25:55 -!- oerjan has quit ("Nude Gait"). 00:55:39 pikhq: what do you use for helvetica on linux btw? i could convert the os x font, but... 01:01:35 Uh, Helvetica? 01:03:29 Argh. So *that's* why I don't use Helvetica. 01:03:37 Oh, Helvetica's installed alright... 01:03:42 The bitmap font. Ick. 01:04:15 You could probably just use the OS X font. 01:04:17 pikhq: AIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIIEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEE 01:04:23 And yeah, but OS X fonts generally lack hinting. 01:04:35 Because OS X's text rendering doesn't need it :P 01:04:49 Probably finding a Windows one would be best 01:05:18 -!- ehird_ has joined. 01:05:22 so I got debian all how I like it, hooray 01:05:51 well, more or less 01:05:56 but more or less does! 01:06:08 at least I think more or less does. 01:06:15 hmm, xchat-gnome could do with more line spacing 01:08:49 Let's try this "smuxi" client. 01:12:11 -!- ehird_ has quit ("Leaving"). 01:12:26 -!- ehird_ has joined. 01:12:34 This looks nice. 01:13:07 I, myself, am partial to irssi. 01:13:55 pikhq: I'd be all over irssi if it had a GUI frontend. 01:14:12 As it is, I have an objection to mimicking a restricted GUI on top of VT terminal codes... 01:14:40 ... GUI? 01:14:51 What is this "GUI" of which you speak? 01:15:16 pikhq: An attitude typical of many unix users, who should be sent back to the 80s. :) 01:16:07 Netcraft confirms it: Smuxi is nice. 01:16:14 Okay, so I'd be using an actual terminal instead of a psuedoterminal. 01:16:22 They should be sent back to the 50's. 01:16:29 To program by rerouting wires. 01:16:31 Oh, and I'd be using the OS that inspired UNIX-HATERS. 01:16:40 pikhq: Or a lisp machine. 01:16:45 You could actually buy them those days. 01:17:00 Oh, *God*... UNIX-HATERS would be full of perfectly valid points! 01:17:04 ehird_: Oh, right. 01:17:08 pikhq: But it is! 01:17:31 Except that many of the points are becoming increasingly moot unless you want them to not be. 01:17:43 Mere kludges. :) 01:17:50 Eh, 'tis the Unix way. 01:17:58 But oooh. A Lisp machine. 01:18:02 Buckey bits and Emacs. :) 01:18:35 The 80s was great for computers; bad for music, hairstyles. 01:19:17 Oh, I dunno about it being bad for musi... Oh, wait. *80s*. 01:19:28 Yes. 01:19:31 That decade that my music collection almost entirely skips. 01:19:57 (I have some Styx. That's about... It, as far as the 80s go) 01:20:14 wolfram alpha says "Launching May 2009" 01:20:14 pikhq: On December 31st, 1979 at 23:59:59 -- specifically, one planck time before January 1st -- the world's collective music lobe was knocked out in a freak accident. 01:20:19 is there any info on when in May 01:20:21 It is well known that it takes 10 years, precisely, to grow back. 01:20:28 since it is the second may now 01:21:09 ehird_: And it still needs at least two decades to recuperate. 01:21:21 Yep. 01:21:28 ehird, ^ 01:21:35 AnMaster: i do not know 01:21:40 ok 01:25:08 http://imgur.com/Gcy.png Yum. 01:25:13 (Sans tiny resolution due to VMity.) 01:25:21 Modulo, not sans, that is. 01:25:56 wtf kind of shitty window manager is that 01:26:08 bsmntbombdood: Pray tell, how is it shitty? 01:26:19 tiling wms are the future 01:26:31 The future of unergonomical pseudo-leetness, yes. 01:26:40 I'm not one for inhumane interfaces 01:26:53 ion is awesome 01:27:11 l o l 01:27:13 \o/ 01:27:14 \o/ 01:27:18 \o/\o/ 01:27:21 \o/\o/\o/ 01:27:27 GCC finished compling 01:27:29 finally 01:27:40 (yes I was doing it on my old pentium3) 01:27:57 (I don't know why) 01:28:13 You are both an idiot and a glutton for punishment 01:29:01 Slereah, I just didn't want it on my main desktop 01:31:41 http://isohunt.com/torrent_details/63227281/Helvetica.ttf?tab=summary 01:31:42 Weet. 01:32:13 ehird, what 01:32:30 Windows Helvetica TTFs, useful for Linuxing. 01:32:31 ehird, don't you have those on OS X 01:32:36 dfont 01:32:36 Yes. I am in a VM. 01:32:39 -!- WangZeDong has joined. 01:32:40 Of Debianity. 01:32:47 ehird, convert with fondu 01:32:59 AnMaster: OS X fonts lack hinting, and often are tuned for just OS X's font rendering 01:33:03 Windows fonts are closer to Linux 01:33:07 ah 01:33:10 maybe I should too then 01:33:33 Now how do I install these painlessly? 01:33:59 KDE 3 I know for 01:34:38 GNOME 2 :P 01:35:15 aha 01:35:19 go to fonts://, drag in 01:35:36 i think 01:35:48 nope 01:36:23 Stick them in ~/.fonts 01:37:04 aha, yep, fonts:/// 01:37:26 pikhq: that's what it does 01:37:29 I'd prefer system-wide though :( 01:38:02 As root, stick it in /usr/share/fonts/ 01:38:37 -!- MizardX has quit ("What are you sinking about?"). 01:38:49 pikhq: that contains subfolders truetype, type1 and X11 01:38:50 :\ 01:38:54 I suppose truetype 01:39:01 Yeah. 01:39:04 Does /usr/local/share/fonts work, I wonder? 01:39:11 It might. Worth trying. 01:39:31 ehird_, depends on setup 01:39:52 ehird_, why do OS X ones lack hinting 01:40:03 I thought they had that inof 01:40:04 because OS X doesn't hint 01:40:05 info* 01:40:12 ehird, oh? 01:40:15 its rendering is accurate enough not to 01:40:29 ehird, becuase of high res screen 01:40:31 or what 01:40:38 because the font rendering is better :P 01:41:26 pikhq: how do I add a directory to fontconfig's list? 01:41:34 it doesn't look at them :< 01:41:50 ah, /usr/share/blah 01:43:09 bah, fonts 01:43:13 shit sucks 01:43:35 ... 01:43:35 what 01:43:53 okay, relogin time 01:44:16 cfunge works on gcc 4.4 01:44:19 now I'm going to bed 01:44:51 -!- ehird_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 01:49:26 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 01:50:49 → 02:38:55 -!- rabideejit has joined. 02:47:29 I thought of a new language. It's one of these cheesey thematic languages. 02:48:15 It should be called JUSTICE. It should read like a court transcript. 02:48:17 We'll be expecting your submission to http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/ promptly :P 02:48:29 Hehe! I shall 02:48:48 Have an implementation, or is it still in the design stage? 02:49:37 Well, I'm trying to think of an interesting foundation for the language. While loops etc seem rather dull. Perhaps some sort of combinatory logic would be good. 02:49:48 The basic idea is it should read like a court transcript. 02:49:57 Actually, I'm a little pissed, it's coming back to me 02:49:59 I had an idea 02:50:08 What it is is: it's the lambda calculus 02:50:19 The evidence presented at the trial represents the bound variables 02:50:57 Named functions can be called by someone in the court saying that there's precedence from another trial... 02:51:11 Output is performed by the judge. 02:51:39 No jury? :P 02:52:59 Haha. I'm not sure -- they could be used for conditionals, but I think that would make the syntax weird -- My major problem is that in court transcript, I don't think you get to see the minutes of the juri 02:53:11 *juror's decision making 02:53:32 This is true. 02:53:37 rabideejit: You do get the jury's results, however. 02:53:45 Obviously, the jury should be for input and output. 02:53:46 ;) 02:54:00 pikhq: Yeah, but you only get the results once. 02:54:34 Hrm. I guess this is a kangaroo court, then. 02:54:37 ;) 02:55:23 ...............? 02:55:31 hmmm!! 02:55:54 perhaps kangaroo would be a good name for the language 02:56:17 A kangaroo court is show trial. 02:56:20 Indeed 02:56:28 Or, rather, the court running the show trial. 02:56:35 pikhq: So is this ;) 02:56:59 :) 02:58:10 Anyway, I have to sleep. Your feedback is excellent. I shall return with tidings of the progress. Goodbye! 02:58:32 -!- rabideejit has left (?). 03:58:58 -!- pikhq has quit ("leaving"). 06:39:55 hey kids 06:56:04 Good night all 06:57:30 night 07:15:57 -!- Sgeo_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:43:20 -!- Slereah has joined. 07:57:07 -!- WangZeDong has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:44:21 -!- MizardX has joined. 09:02:37 -!- tombom has joined. 09:21:06 -!- oerjan has joined. 09:22:27 -!- M0ny has joined. 09:23:04 plop 09:23:18 *splash* 09:31:51 -!- Dewio has changed nick to Dewi. 10:02:27 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 10:03:49 -!- Dewi has quit ("off into upgrade land"). 10:47:26 -!- M0ny has quit ("When you get sad stop being sad and be awesome instead."). 10:50:01 -!- FireFly has joined. 10:58:48 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 11:38:22 -!- MigoMipo has joined. 11:51:40 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 11:51:47 -!- puzzlet has joined. 12:23:19 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 12:27:25 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 12:27:40 -!- FireFly has joined. 12:36:09 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 13:02:01 -!- M0ny has joined. 13:09:56 -!- Dewi has joined. 13:37:29 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 13:37:34 -!- MizardX has joined. 13:45:38 -!- tombom has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 14:40:40 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 14:40:45 -!- puzzlet has joined. 14:48:25 -!- oklopol has joined. 14:52:54 -!- ais523 has joined. 14:59:28 -!- oklopol597 has joined. 14:59:34 whoops seems i disconnected. 14:59:51 serves me right i guess 15:00:03 did someone answer? 15:01:21 what's topic about 15:07:58 oklopol597: link to the logs 15:10:43 -!- oklopol has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:23:39 -!- oklopol597 has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 15:42:49 hi ais523 15:43:05 hi 15:50:17 -!- MizardX- has joined. 15:50:26 -!- tombom has joined. 15:50:51 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 15:50:55 -!- MizardX- has changed nick to MizardX. 15:55:28 -!- ehird has left (?). 15:56:57 -!- ehird has joined. 16:00:35 ais523, any idea why gcc generates .eh_frame sections in the ELF binaries when compiling C programs. As far as I understood it, it is used for unwinding in case of exceptions but none of the -fno-exceptions -fno-unwind-tables and so on seems to remove them 16:01:02 err, no, I ignored all the exception-handling stuff when doing gcc-bf 16:01:06 so it almost certainly doesn't work for C++ 16:01:22 ais523, yes but why is it generating them for C!? 16:01:38 hi ais523 16:01:38 are they just debug data, I wonder? 16:01:46 ais523, using -g0 16:01:49 and strip doesn't remove them 16:01:52 hi ehird 16:02:16 i think that Debian's fontconfig has less illegal-in-US subpixel stuff than ubuntu's... 16:02:29 quite possibly 16:02:46 Ubuntu's European, so doesn't care about the illegal-in-US stuff when it's legal everywhere else 16:02:50 OTOH, debian have special non-US repositories 16:02:55 for all mirrors other than the US ones 16:03:02 so I wonder if they have the illegals? 16:05:08 ah I finally made it reduce the the .eh_frame segment to a few bytes. Byt instead it grew the .text segment with 64 bytes? 16:05:50 anyway, I spent this morning writing an Underload interpreter 16:06:04 which is pretty fast, it's only about 20% slower than programs generated from the ehird/me Underload compiler 16:06:16 and I intend to expand it to handle Underlambda some time later 16:06:54 ais523: you know how you use noscript to get rid of annoyances and be more secure? it's adware, and uses obfuscated code to further this end: http://adblockplus.org/blog/attention-noscript-users 16:07:12 ehird: yes, I'm reading the story atm 16:07:14 ais523, this makes no sense: http://pastebin.ca/1410386 16:07:16 heh 16:07:19 but I never visit the noscript homepage 16:07:27 I went and blocked that through about.config ages ago 16:07:37 ais523, difference was adding -fno-asynchronous-unwind-tables as well 16:07:41 ais523: you still have obfuscated code designed to subvert adblock plus running on your FF instance 16:08:14 ehird: yes... 16:09:39 16:08 ski expects `mod n 0 = n' .. :/ 16:09:41 wat 16:09:51 ais523: SO SHOW US THE GOODS 16:09:56 oh, ok 16:10:07 :P 16:10:22 * ais523 pastes 16:11:06 " wget http://keithp.com/~keithp/truetype.tar.gz 16:11:06 (and wait... it's about 3 megs ;)" 16:11:09 Oh 2002. 16:11:27 http://pastebin.ca/1410392 16:12:11 ais523: I like how the compiler is infinitely clearer. 16:12:27 what makes you think that? 16:12:33 ais523: You realize that newlines and comments don't make the interpreter run slower, right? X-P 16:12:39 err ... have you read that interpreter, ais523? 16:12:41 GregorR: yes 16:12:43 ehird: yes 16:12:45 (J/K ;) ) 16:12:45 the compiler is a trivial transformation for 90% of it 16:12:53 the interpreter has bitshift rubbish 16:12:55 the interp's cleverer 16:12:58 and int_least32_bigger_t 16:13:01 and the bitshift's implementing utf-8 16:13:04 and big_least_32_bigger 16:13:12 ais523: err ... why? 16:13:19 Underload is ASCII... 16:13:25 ehird: err, what makes you think that/ 16:13:39 ais523: you didn't disagree when my compiler used ascii... 16:13:49 and because it uses no non-ASCII characters 16:14:29 well, in Underload the meaning of codes above 128 is irrelevant 16:14:52 in Underlambda it isn't, and I'm trying to get the compiler to do both 16:15:23 anyway, anyone complaining about a lack of newlines in that obviously doesn't like Python, it's indented exactly the same way 16:16:06 ais523: or maybe they think different languages deserve different styles 16:16:07 zomg 16:16:14 also, python uses 4-space indents 16:16:20 precisely because it'd be impossible to read with 2-space indents 16:16:24 since everything would munge together 16:16:32 just resize spaces in your editor 16:16:57 ehird: Noscript was already updated to remove that Adblock Plus filter subscription. 16:17:44 !underload (Hello, world!)S 16:17:55 Again with the not compiling. 16:18:01 Again with the not compiling. 16:18:02 !underload (Hello, world!)S 16:18:03 Usage: derl (-o|-a) [inputfile] 16:18:07 Sweet :P 16:18:14 you need to give -o for Underload 16:18:17 or invoke with the name derlo 16:18:48 !underload (Hello, world!)S 16:18:49 Hello, world! 16:18:50 Deewiant: Still doesn't stop it being shady. I wouldn't struct it anyway. 16:19:04 *trust 16:19:06 not struct... 16:19:32 It's GPL. 16:19:40 Just read it through :-P 16:19:56 !underload (a(:^)*S):^ 16:19:56 (a(:^)*S):^ 16:20:22 Deewiant: Next stop: Missing the point 16:20:30 !underload (:aSS):aSS 16:20:30 (:aSS):aSS 16:20:36 !underload (:^):^ 16:20:48 it optimizes tailcalls, so that'll just run until it runs out of time 16:21:00 my compiler optimized tailcalls too :P 16:22:22 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 16:23:32 -!- FireFly has joined. 16:23:34 "Click Here now http://embryogenesiswatches.cn" 16:23:38 lawl, embryogenesis? :P 16:23:39 lolwat 16:25:17 ehird: my interp's a lot more memory efficient than your compiler, though 16:25:32 !underload ((+)S:*:^):^ 16:25:32 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 16:25:34 Deewiant: Next stop: Missing the point <-- I clearly see what ehird meant there 16:25:38 so noscript needs forking 16:25:49 ehird: try that program on your compiler, I bet it won't get nearly that far 16:25:51 because the idea is good. And it used to be good at least. 16:26:08 ais523: er, what? It would run forever. 16:26:11 I optimized tail calls. 16:26:16 ehird: look more carefully at it 16:26:20 it uses exponential memory 16:26:29 Shrug. Then you need exponential memory. 16:26:31 although constant callstack space, it uses exponential data-stack space 16:27:09 ^ul ((+)S:*:^):^ 16:27:09 +++++++++++ ...too much stack! 16:27:15 http://www.oyhus.no/SubLCD.html this is pretty cool 16:27:15 right 16:27:25 that was very quick to give that error in fungot 16:27:26 AnMaster: ' of course they answer to their names? is it particular or universal? perhaps looking-glass milk isn't good to fnord oh, oh, hear!" cried sylvie, in a melancholy voice. ' it's very provoking,' humpty dumpty cried, breaking into a sudden passion. ' you've only a few inches high, and was gone in a moment. 16:27:50 +ul ((+)S:*:^):^ 16:27:52 that is a very good summary of the book fungot 16:27:52 AnMaster: " oh, don't go on like that!' 16:28:00 oh ok, I'll stop then 16:28:05 (with what?= 16:28:09 s/=/)/ 16:28:19 hmm.... thutubot doesn't like exponential programs 16:28:25 it should have hit the too much stack warning already... 16:28:27 +hello 16:28:31 ais523, doesn't it have a limit 16:28:33 iirc 16:28:43 AnMaster: yes, and it should have reached it by now 16:28:50 so you hit a bug? 16:28:51 ++++++++++ ...too much memory used! 16:28:51 Hello, ais523! 16:29:05 nah, the limit's obviously just a bit too high 16:30:12 -!- oerjan has joined. 16:32:30 ais523, any idea why gcc generates .eh_frame sections in the ELF binaries when compiling C programs. [...] <<< obviously it's for framing canadians. 16:32:47 oerjan, what 16:32:56 http://www.oyhus.no/Monitors6.html Holy. Fuck. 16:33:01 your joke made no sense 16:33:11 so you say, eh? 16:33:12 ehird, I have seen more 16:33:31 AnMaster: " I recently threw them away, since they used so much current that they often blew the house fuses and aborted the server. " 16:33:35 usally not CRT though 16:33:43 ehird, ah 16:34:08 it's a horrible xinerama setup 16:34:15 xinerama would work with monitors without any borders :P 16:34:55 ehird, where on the page is it 16:34:58 I can't find it 16:35:06 his homepage 16:35:29 ehird, not the same page on it that you linked though. meh 16:35:52 his homepage 16:35:53 as in / 16:35:56 duh 16:36:46 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 16:38:05 there, disabled noscript. Disabled javascript. 16:46:15 -!- MigoMipo_ has joined. 16:46:15 -!- MigoMipo has quit (Nick collision from services.). 16:46:38 -!- MigoMipo_ has changed nick to MigoMipo. 16:46:58 -!- MigoMipo has left (?). 16:50:28 16:08 ski expects `mod n 0 = n' .. :/ 16:50:47 that _is_ the most logical definition if you make it defined 16:51:06 since k + 0*m = n has only one solution k 16:51:35 er, it has no solutions, no? 16:51:46 k = n is the solution. 16:51:48 k = n, m = anything 16:52:13 of course it has no solution fulfilling the expected inequality 0 <= k < n 16:52:24 *0 16:52:24 * ais523 tries to figure out whether nobody being able to read my Underload interp is a good thing 16:52:45 ais523: i haven't tried yet 16:53:11 I spent hours debugging the GC this morning 16:53:35 is it concurrent? 16:53:37 why not? 16:53:37 oh it's not written in a language with GC? 16:53:59 ais523: reference counting should suffice 16:54:13 it is refcounting 16:54:23 eurgh 16:54:24 just I use the refcounting for other purposes too 16:54:26 like optimisations 16:54:29 refcounting is so inefficient 16:54:50 not in terms of memory used 16:55:13 Underload programs that use memory exponentially tend to only use quadratic memory in derl 16:55:30 due to the compression it uses to store thigns 16:59:01 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: 131 (Connection reset by peer)). 16:59:03 -!- MizardX- has joined. 16:59:06 ais523: sharing subexpressions i assume 16:59:14 oerjan: yes, that's how it's done 16:59:40 -!- MizardX- has changed nick to MizardX. 16:59:44 also, if subexpressions are only used in one place, I modify them when doing ^ or *, rather than creating another data structure to hold the relationship 16:59:56 huh 17:00:09 say you do (a)(b)* 17:00:20 that becomes CAT(a,b) in memory if a is shared with anything 17:00:25 ais523, "uniputc" 17:00:25 what 17:00:31 what 17:00:31 what 17:00:32 what 17:00:33 if it isn't, I just change the end pointer of a to point to the start of b 17:00:34 what 17:00:36 AnMaster: UTF-8 putc 17:00:40 ais523, aha 17:00:41 constitutes about half the things I hear from AnMaster 17:00:51 I use UCS-4 internally 17:01:07 ais523, right. Makes sense. Have you integrated this in EgoBot yet 17:01:17 AnMaster: no, GregorR's integrated it in EgoBot 17:01:21 ah ok 17:01:27 !help 17:01:28 Supported commands: bf_txtgen help info 1l 2l adjust axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf16 bf32 bf8 dimensifuck glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl 17:01:40 ais523, is it valgrind clean 17:02:00 >_< 17:02:12 AnMaster: yes with debug level set 2 or higher 17:02:19 lower than that, it skips free at program end 17:02:59 ehird: I was valgrinding it a /lot/ to test for bugs 17:03:06 more or less every bug in there showed up on valgrind 17:03:12 still, a rather pointless thing to ask someone who shows a propgram 17:03:12 -!- coppro has quit (Connection reset by peer). 17:03:15 *program 17:03:16 ais523, you indention is mixed space and tabs 17:03:17 eww 17:03:45 anyway, here's an expression it took over an hour to get working: 17:03:54 !underload (((1)S)^):^^ 17:03:54 11 17:04:04 ^ul (((1)S)^):^^ 17:04:05 11 17:04:10 +ul (((1)S)^):^^ 17:04:10 11 17:04:12 mhm 17:04:21 that's a minimal testcase for an obscure optimizer bug 17:04:38 -!- coppro has joined. 17:04:57 ais523, not likely any other interpreter will hit it then 17:05:00 or compiler 17:05:03 I guess 17:05:21 ais523: now I have to make a new interpreter/compiler that's really fast 17:05:24 well, unless they try to optimise the same way 17:05:25 I will do TYPE INFERENCE. 17:05:32 ais523, anyway, your code: tl;drmoi 17:05:33 :::*** will be stored as {num,3} 17:05:44 ehird: I'm planning to do that too, some time 17:05:51 ais523: >:( 17:05:55 both my unfinished Overload interps optimise numbers already 17:05:55 I have patented it 17:05:57 So there 17:06:02 I have prior art, so there 17:06:05 :D 17:06:13 ais523: Like the patent system ever listens to prior art 17:06:14 SO THERE 17:06:56 derl's O((log n)^2) for numbers atm 17:06:57 ehird, also it is the same as I already do in my brainfuck compiler, optimising +++ and such to set constants when they are known (like cell is known to be 0 before, from a [-] or whatever) 17:06:58 which isn't all that bad 17:07:07 so prior art too 17:07:11 that's in memory, it's O(n) in actual processing for the same reason as brainfuck 17:07:13 AnMaster: no 17:07:16 that is not even close to the same 17:07:51 ehird, yes. "Optimising sub-optimal esolang representations for numbers into efficient representations" 17:07:52 :P 17:08:09 yes it covers church numerals too 17:08:58 in fact, it would include constant folding in any esolangs too 17:10:05 ais523, what is "tailcat" 17:10:51 AnMaster: if you want to concatenate two linked lists 17:10:56 yes 17:10:59 then you set the last pointer in the first one to point to the start of the second 17:11:08 it only works if nothing else is using the first one, though 17:11:17 that saves a bit of memory, I was more paranoid about memory usage than speed for some reason 17:11:22 right. 17:11:26 fancy name for it 17:11:40 I mean, I have done that in programming before. And never knew what it was called. 17:12:04 ais523, it saves speed too doesn't it 17:12:15 probably, but I haven't profiled 17:12:21 it avoids the need to malloc 17:12:30 but it requires a while loop to find the end of the list 17:12:31 I mean you only have to traverse the first list, so O(n) (unless you already have a pointer it's end, in which case that is O(1)) 17:12:32 -!- pikhq has joined. 17:12:36 then update a pointer 17:12:42 yep, but the other way's O(n) too 17:12:47 the question is which is faster on a typical list 17:13:10 ais523, wouldn't the other way be copying the linked list, AND finding the end of one of them. 17:13:19 no 17:13:21 Thus being O(n) too indeed (I think) 17:13:23 the other way is to do a lazy cat 17:13:29 ais523, ah 17:13:31 which is what I do when the first list is shared and so can't be modified 17:13:46 I create a cat element in memory, and evaluate it later when the first list has already been consumed 17:13:52 so the first list doesn't need copying 17:13:53 at all 17:13:57 as it's already gone by then 17:14:03 right 17:14:21 ais523, well compared to that, lazy cat should be faster right? 17:14:24 or hm 17:14:28 I'm wondering 17:14:37 where do you store this lazy cat 17:14:38 I suspect lazy cat will be faster on large lists, certainly instantaneously 17:14:41 but it produces more memory 17:14:45 and it's stored on the heap 17:14:55 I'm wondering if lazy-catting everything would make memory usage a higher computational order 17:14:59 ais523, no, I meant, how do you check in the code for a lazy cat situation 17:15:02 which could make speed a higher computational order 17:15:13 AnMaster: it's in the big switch, look for case CAT: 17:15:22 and then I have the zero stack 17:15:31 which is a stack of pointers to use instead if you hit a null pointer 17:15:38 lazy cat's implemented in terms of it 17:16:08 ais523, how do you store it relative the first list 17:16:16 err 17:16:23 " I create a cat element in memory, and evaluate it later when the first list has already been consumed" 17:16:24 Obviously, this lazy cat is stored right next to Einstein's cat with a long tail. 17:16:33 AnMaster: it has a pointer to the first list and the second list 17:16:33 I may have misinterpreted that 17:16:40 ais523, right 17:16:44 once it's evaluated, it returns the first list, and pushes a pointer to the second on the zero stack 17:16:46 that explains it 17:16:58 then when the end of the first list is reached, it hits a NULL, so it pops the second from the zero stack and keeps going 17:17:18 zero stack... 17:17:25 ah right 17:17:26 ais523: hm if you cat n lists together, you only get n-1 cat cells, so as long as you don't use it for empty lists i think you only get a constant multiplier at most 17:17:31 you mean the SOSS-most SOSS 17:17:38 oerjan: I don't use it for empty lists 17:17:38 (kind of not) 17:17:52 but you can end up catting the lazy cats themselves 17:17:55 and you end up in a big lazy glob 17:17:56 so no O() difference 17:17:59 which is why I think it might blow up 17:18:18 hm 17:18:28 say (x):*:*:* becomes x lazy-catted to itself, that lazycat's lazy-catted to itself, and that lazycat's lazy-catted to itself 17:18:36 so you have more lazy cats than actual elements there 17:18:47 OTOH, doing that's much more efficient than actually trying to store the number 17:18:56 ^ul (x):*:*:* 17:18:59 ^ul (x):*:*:*S 17:19:00 ais523: um but you cannot use mutation on self-catting, obviously 17:19:00 xxxxxxxx 17:19:07 +ul (x):*:*:*S 17:19:07 xxxxxxxx 17:19:11 !underload (x):*:*:*S 17:19:12 oerjan: no, I can't 17:19:12 xxxxxxxx 17:19:17 hm 17:19:26 actually, come to think of it, you could; if the second list was modifiable, you could modify that 17:19:43 ais523, can you do that exponentially. I mean cause that interpreter to create an exponential number of such lazy cats 17:19:49 and if the first list was modifiable then, you could force the lazycat at that point and then attach to the forced list 17:19:51 AnMaster: I'm not sure 17:20:06 OTOH, it's certainly better than the naive approach, which would be hyperexponential for the same program 17:20:14 ais523, err 17:20:16 what 17:20:22 can you show that 17:20:34 AnMaster: yes, just by considering what would happen if you forced all the cats immediately 17:20:46 ah 17:20:50 !underload ((+)S:*:^):^ 17:20:51 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 17:21:03 Spiffy. Just spiffy. 17:21:03 I thought you meant a program creating hyperexponential number of lazy cats in it 17:21:05 meh 17:21:14 +ul ((+)S:*:^):^ 17:21:17 ^ul ((+)S:*:^):^ 17:21:17 +++++++++++ ...too much stack! 17:21:22 ais523, still that bug 17:21:24 or what 17:21:26 AnMaster: yes, I haven't modified thutubot 17:21:34 you can tell that by the fact it hasn't left and rejoined 17:21:40 thutu's a compiled language, at least in all known implementations 17:21:58 ais523, it will run out some time soon or what 17:22:01 I don't think it's necessarily a bug, just a limit (in this case, memory use) set slightly too high 17:22:03 since it responded above 17:22:05 it hits the memory limit first 17:22:07 ah 17:22:12 time's measured in commands 17:22:17 and Thutu is O(n) slower than anything else 17:22:18 ais523, any message about it 17:22:21 ++++++++++ ...too much memory used! 17:22:21 +hello 17:22:22 Hello, AnMaster! 17:22:23 ah 17:22:25 right 17:22:32 ais523, I missed that message last time 17:22:35 I was afk 17:23:01 rather. just left 5 seconds before 17:24:33 ais523, tested ick with gcc 4.4 yet 17:24:38 no 17:24:40 cfunge works fine with it btw 17:24:43 I suspect it will work, though 17:24:59 given that gcc will have been trying not to break compatibility, and ick's designed to run on anything as it is 17:25:07 ok 17:25:22 "If you're using IE, do not be alarmed. This page does not really look like crap, it is only your browser." 17:25:24 GCC tries not to break compatibility, but sometimes compatibility is broken. 17:25:33 ais523, it does have parts that are gcc specific 17:25:37 ick I mean 17:25:38 what, ick? 17:25:39 not the webpage 17:25:43 (some projects depend on behavior of the optimising pass.) 17:25:48 ais523, yes. the ec thing 17:25:50 for example 17:25:53 iirc 17:25:55 yes 17:26:00 unless you changed that recently 17:26:03 it depends on ({ }) and a command-line option to gld 17:26:07 For example, ffmpeg won't compile without -O. 17:26:26 17:25 ais523: "If you're using IE, do not be alarmed. This page does not really look like crap, it is only your browser." 17:26:29 i googled for it 17:26:29 pikhq, what 17:26:31 Erm. It'll compile, it won't execute at all. 17:26:31 that's odd 17:26:32 that site IS ugly, though, ironcially 17:26:42 pikhq, how do they debug it then 17:26:50 gcc -O1 -g 17:26:50 you can use -g with -O 17:26:53 printf debugging works 17:26:59 yes right. But it doesn't work well 17:27:01 IME 17:27:10 ehird: the graphical version of muphry's law? :D 17:27:11 ehird: I'm actually surprised that string only gives one result 17:27:16 -O0 works a lot better when you are working in gdb 17:27:17 ais523: in quotes, ofc 17:27:21 yep, ubuntu's subpixel rendering is different and better than Debian's 17:27:21 yes, in quotes 17:27:23 hm. 17:27:25 It is my professional opinion that the ffmpeg developers are freaking mad. 17:27:49 ais523, soon two (from tunes) 17:27:58 ehird: Probably because Ubuntu's a fork of sid. ;p 17:28:05 AnMaster: soon two? 17:28:21 pikhq: no -- because Ubuntu doesn't care about breaking US law, just european law 17:28:26 it may be in a debian non-US repository 17:28:26 ehird, yes. one from that site. One from google crawling the logs for this channel 17:28:29 That too. 17:28:29 AnMaster: oh 17:28:38 AnMaster: you confused me since tunes are making a new site, supposedly 17:28:45 oh 17:28:46 And Ubuntu doesn't even care about breaking European law. 17:28:51 Just South African law. ;) 17:28:53 ehird, with spiffy GUI for the logs 17:28:54 or what 17:28:54 pikhq: err... 17:28:58 Canonical aren't a south african country 17:29:01 pikhq: their main servers are in Europe 17:29:03 AnMaster: the logs are not a part of the tunes project... 17:29:08 ehird: they aren't even a european country 17:29:10 Oh? Guess I'm wrong. 17:29:11 AnMaster: the tunes project is mainly the OS project 17:29:13 although that would be impressive 17:29:23 ehird, you failed to detect the sarcasm... 17:29:43 ais523, where are they a company then 17:29:43 AnMaster: people, as a rule, can't detect sarcasm without any hints that it would be sarcasm -- i.e. it could easily be perfectly serious -- and that is not funny at all 17:29:53 since, y'know, we're not psychic 17:29:56 it isn't supposed to be funny 17:30:00 and you use it all the time 17:30:06 so hypocrite :P 17:30:08 ehird: just psychos 17:30:09 AnMaster: Europe, they just aren't a country 17:30:24 the main server's in the UK, although that doesn't mean the company is of course 17:30:27 ais523: heh, country XD 17:30:30 ais523, oh I mentally corrected the typo 17:30:33 AnMaster: yes, but my sarcasm is detectable 17:30:35 so I never noticed it 17:30:37 ehird, it isn't 17:30:39 just not to you 17:30:39 mine is 17:30:44 AnMaster: i disagree, since others have detected it 17:30:47 just not for you 17:30:53 17:28 AnMaster: ehird, with spiffy GUI for the logs 17:30:54 17:28 AnMaster: or what 17:30:59 @anyone: does this smell even slightly of sarcasm to you? 17:31:01 whatsoever? 17:31:43 it is potentially sarcasti 17:31:45 c 17:31:48 but you can't tell without more context 17:31:49 everything is 17:31:50 and there wasn't any 17:31:54 right 17:32:24 -!- Dewi has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:32:30 -!- Dewi has joined. 17:34:07 * ehird concludes that Debian, if it has a non-US nice freetype, is his best choice. 17:35:36 ais523, hyperexponential == "like exponential but with the hyper operator" right? I can only find "hyperexponential distribution" which seems to be a slightly different concept 17:35:49 AnMaster: something that blows up faster than exponential 17:36:02 ah 17:36:07 ais523: hyperexponential reaches infinity in finite time, no? 17:36:09 so not specific to the hyper operator then 17:36:19 ehird: I'm not sure 17:36:24 I may have used the wrong term 17:36:26 I'm pretty sure that's true 17:36:34 Maybe "superexponential" 17:36:38 yes 17:36:45 hmm 17:36:45 AnMaster: greek:hyper = latin:super 17:36:52 there should be a way to install some of the ubuntu polish on debian. 17:37:05 I don't know what happens if you enable the ubuntu repos in debian 17:37:12 like the cleaned up system→preferences/administration and the nice wireless/wired connection helper thingies 17:37:12 I wonder if it's as disastrous as doing it the other way round? 17:37:15 oerjan, why are you highlighting *me* about that 17:37:17 ais523: almost certainly 17:37:36 the connection helper thing is NetworkManager + nm-applet-gnome 17:37:41 ehird, non-us. 17:37:42 Debian probably has the packages 17:37:45 but yeah, I'd like some of ubuntu's polis without its bloaty feeling and without the goddamn ubuntu logo :-D 17:37:49 AnMaster: ais523, hyperexponential == "like exponential but with the hyper operator" right? 17:37:54 (don't know if they *still* have that...) 17:37:58 ais523: system→preferences/administration cleanup is a godsend though 17:38:02 that thing's a maze on debian 17:38:05 ah, ok 17:38:06 that sort of implied you didn't know the basic meaning of the prefix 17:38:28 oerjan, well hyper == super == "more wow" ;P 17:38:37 still, I can handle Debian, prolly 17:38:44 esp. since its installation is more flexible 17:38:48 Probably. 17:38:49 so I can do my LVM rubbish for the ssd 17:39:02 ehird, WHAT 17:39:08 WHAT 17:39:17 RUBBISH‽ 17:39:21 HOW DARE YOU 17:39:24 err, AnMaster used an interrobang? 17:39:27 AnMaster: It's slang. 17:39:28 Debian does have the network-manager package, and a network-manager-gnome systray applet. 17:39:31 It doesn't mean "crap". 17:39:33 It means "stuff". 17:39:37 the correct term is "baroque" for lvm 17:39:42 NOT "rubbish" 17:39:42 ais523, yes and 17:39:44 Like "mumble" 17:39:50 AnMaster: I didn't expect it from you 17:39:52 ais523, it isn't like the first time... 17:39:53 Oh, and to piss off AnMaster: 17:39:56 LVM rubbish LVM rubbish LVM rubbish LVM rubbish LVM rubbish LVM rubbish LVM rubbish LVM rubbish LVM rubbish LVM rubbish LVM rubbish LVM rubbish 17:40:05 ehird, sinner :P 17:40:09 AnMaster: I haven't seen you do an interrobang before 17:40:10 fizzie: I wonder if it comes with its desktop-environment packageset 17:40:27 ais523, I haven't seen you around more than at most half of the days 17:40:38 your point 17:40:41 AnMaster: I don't have Internet at home 17:41:03 ais523, I know. It doesn't change the fact that you have rather limited coverage of the channel and don't read all the logs. 17:41:12 (the latter I don't blame you for) 17:41:53 Well, the "gnome" package recommends network-manager-gnome, which would pull in the network-manager itself. But it's just a "recommends", not a "depends" or a "suggests". 17:42:08 I'd like to say something CONTRAVARSIAL: 17:42:11 I like Compizzzzzzzzz 17:42:14 AnMaster: 50% is more than enough for statistical evidence 17:42:54 oerjan, sure. However it doesn't *always* work. As shown in this case. 17:43:06 ;P 17:43:36 fizzie, hm what is the difference between "recommends" and "suggests" in *.deb based systesm 17:43:38 systems* 17:44:14 pikhq: do you know if there's a way to tell Debian to use gksudo instead of gksu? 17:44:19 Since I want to lock the root account. 17:44:49 hm there is ⸘ too 17:44:58 for use in Spanish and such 17:45:51 No; I don't use a desktop environment. 17:46:04 pikhq: What's that got to do with anything? 17:46:09 The "recommends" list is supposed to contain "packages that would be found together with this one in all but unusual installations" while "suggests" should have things that are potentially useful but not in any sense required. So I guess "suggests" is the milder version, in fact. Funny that aptitude orders them depends/recommends/suggests. Well, maybe it's just alphabetical in that sense. 17:46:10 gksudo is just a gtk sudo thing :P 17:46:23 All Gtk-but-you-know,-rooted apps in debian use it by default 17:46:43 only GTK app I use on a regular basis is Gimp I think 17:46:50 possibly there is some other that I forgot about 17:47:05 The only GTK app I use on a regular basis is Xulrunner. 17:47:05 AnMaster: firefox? 17:47:10 ehird, duh right 17:47:20 anyway, gtk's a fine graphical toolkit. 17:47:23 so gimp and firefox 17:47:40 If you don't have to code for it. 17:47:48 pikhq: Oh, no doubting, GObject is a mess. 17:47:48 Debian-installer asks whether you want to use a root account with a password, or whether just to set up sudo. I've no idea about graphical-but-root stuff, though. 17:47:53 Gobject is... Evil. 17:47:54 Nothing a bit of abstraction couldn't fix. 17:48:01 there is no good GUI toolkit if you have to code for it that also looks good 17:48:03 fizzie: Does it? It didn't to me. Do you mean the advanced install? 17:48:08 Tk is good for coding against 17:48:08 but 17:48:10 it looks shit 17:48:20 AnMaster: Yeah... Qt is OK to code for... but OTOH it doesn't really have a nice selection of themes. 17:48:29 But, Qt 4.4 has QGtkStyle, which renders directly via gtk. 17:48:30 ehird: Well, I've always done the expert install-mode thing, yes. It asks a bit more questions that way, I guess. 17:48:32 Which is kick-ass. 17:48:52 So maybe Qt is a nice Gtk abstraction ;-) 17:48:59 ehird, except that doesn't work well when I tested it 17:49:07 Does it not? Darn. 17:49:18 buggy for most GTK themes I tried. 17:49:22 And there's gtk-qt-engine. I wonder what happens if you use both of them? 17:49:34 pikhq: :D 17:49:36 Massive failure I'm thinkin' :P 17:49:36 the default gtk theme worked ok with it 17:49:43 but not most other ones 17:49:50 AnMaster: I thought that Tk had recently started rendering using GTK? 17:49:53 GregorR, indeed 17:49:58 pikhq, how recently 17:50:05 I might not have hit that version yet 17:50:06 pikhq: Rly? 17:50:08 Or was it Qt? 17:50:12 Yes 17:50:13 It was Qt 17:50:15 as a separate theme 17:50:15 :P 17:50:23 Tk has some ways to make it look modern 17:50:23 * pikhq doesn't know; no Tk usage. 17:50:23 Tcl/Tk 8.5. 17:50:27 But not by default, eurgh. 17:50:31 because the one I have here looks somewhat like.... Motif + CDE + pure X 17:50:35 in shittyness 17:50:40 you guys ever used nedit? :-) 17:50:44 Ah. 17:50:47 ehird, what is that 17:50:50 http://www.nedit.org/ 17:50:52 * GregorR vaguely recalls nedit. 17:50:53 very old X11 editor 17:50:56 Guess it'll be in officially in 8.6? 17:51:00 ehird, tl;dc 17:51:07 AnMaster: it reminded me: 17:51:09 http://www.nedit.org/technotes/looks-1.php 17:51:15 talking about tk 17:51:32 ehird, the shade does it all 17:51:34 doesn't it 17:51:44 AnMaster: At the time it was written, the main UI toolkit was Motif. 17:51:44 Horrid, isn't it? 17:51:45 it still looks bad in the latter one 17:51:45 And the less-3Dness :P 17:51:56 AnMaster: It looks acceptable 17:52:03 I mean, there's not much there to look ugly 17:52:07 pikhq, actually I like motif. For the retro feeling it gives to mosiac 17:52:09 ;P 17:53:18 (yes I have a mosaic version which runs on modern Linux and even have some bugs fixed in it, oh and it is set to not display css or scripts inline, just to make it able to render google.com reasonably) 17:53:39 ehird, hm... 17:54:01 It certainly looks better than, say, xman. 17:54:07 fizzie: oh man, xedit 17:54:10 you ever used xedit? 17:54:14 that thing did SEARCH! 17:54:24 i wonder what toolkit it was 17:54:25 athena? 17:54:29 it's the black and white one 17:54:33 with just a two pixel border on buttons 17:54:57 ehird, I think I used xedit once. Used defined as ^C 17:54:57 I used to have OpenMotif installed... I can't remember why. 17:55:20 AnMaster: xedit is perfectly intuitive 17:55:22 it's just very very X 17:55:28 ehird, yes exactly 17:55:40 Oh, I still do have it. 17:55:40 Oh, right. Xpdf. 17:55:40 Why do I have xpdf? 17:55:49 oh my 17:55:54 pikhq: Evince uses gtk? 17:55:54 xpdf renders badly too 17:55:55 :-) 17:56:00 kpdf is very nice 17:56:05 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 17:56:07 -!- puzzlet has joined. 17:56:08 in 3.x at least 17:56:14 ehird: xedit didn't use a toolkit. It used libX11. 17:56:24 pikhq: well, those widgets are in xman too 17:56:25 and stuff 17:56:30 The "scrollbar scrolls down on left-click, up on right-click, and you can drag it with middle-click" stuff is the horrible. 17:56:40 fizzie: ugh 17:56:42 don't remind me 17:56:45 fizzie, that is like in emacs iirc 17:56:50 but you can change it there I think 17:56:54 xman's linked with libXaw.so.7 here, so I guess it's from Athena. 17:57:03 never been bothered enough to figure it out 17:57:15 fizzie, does it use it though 17:57:16 AnMaster: xterm is the main offender 17:57:21 that's why you should use urxvt. 17:57:26 ehird, actually xterm isn't too bad 17:57:29 or gnome-terminal if you're not gnome averse 17:57:32 compared to twm or such 17:57:32 AnMaster: it is for the scrollbar 17:57:36 that's exactly the behaviour it has 17:57:38 ehird, it had none 17:57:39 iirc 17:57:41 in xterm 17:57:43 ... 17:57:47 xterm has a scrollbar. 17:57:52 you can turn it off but it has one. 17:57:53 ehird, not mine at least. 17:58:02 so I guess it is off by default 17:58:08 I never turned it either on or off 17:59:16 "scrollBar (class ScrollBar): Specifies whether or not the scrollbar should be displayed. The default is ‘‘false.’’" 17:59:22 Of course I don't know if that's the universal default. 17:59:58 depends on distro I guess 18:00:30 gentoo tends to not change defaults for stuff. And not install customised icons replacing KDE/Gnome/whatever logos with the distro ones 18:00:40 (I hate when distros do that) 18:02:46 Yeah, it's kinda nice that Gentoo only tends to do patches to, y'know, make shit work right. 18:03:01 Debian does that stuff a bit, but OTOH you get a nice desktop that always works together 18:03:07 And you can probably replace the debian logoshits. 18:07:00 -!- M0ny has quit ("When you get sad stop being sad and be awesome instead."). 18:16:28 I mean, a logo at the boot or such (though I prefer text bootup) is fine with me. And possibly default desktop background picture. (I'm going to replace it with a single solid colour anyway!) 18:16:36 but when it gets to the menu... 18:16:54 AnMaster: all debian does beyond that is make gnome's menu icon the debian logo instead of the gnome foot 18:17:01 which is probably easily replacable 18:17:04 i agree they should do less 18:17:08 ehird, can you get the MP foot 18:17:11 but it's easily reversible, nothing really permanent 18:17:27 AnMaster: It's probably just a png or an svg 18:17:39 The gnome foot is ugly anyway, Debian's logo is nicer :P 18:17:45 so use the MP foot 18:17:48 that is even better 18:17:54 I dunno, that spiral is pretty nice. 18:18:06 ehird, but the MP one is pretty isn't it 18:18:10 ;P 18:18:16 I have no idea what the fuck you're talking about. 18:18:20 ... Monty Python 18:18:24 Oh. 18:19:29 ehird, you know their foot right 18:19:49 (I'm never sure when it comes to you) 18:22:20 -!- pikhq has quit ("leaving"). 18:23:44 -!- MizardX- has joined. 18:23:53 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)). 18:24:06 * oerjan stomps on AnMaster 18:24:19 -!- MizardX- has changed nick to MizardX. 18:24:20 * AnMaster hits oerjan o=========E 18:24:42 oerjan, IWC! (Or have I said that already today?) 18:24:46 nope 18:25:55 i wonder if DMM is going to rewrite history for very long 18:26:25 (well, apart from the historical themes, for which the answer is obviously "yes") 18:26:27 also mezzacotta was interesting today. I never heard the word "astrogator" before 18:26:51 AnMaster: an agoran office for keeping the gate to the stars, obviously 18:26:55 ais523: right? 18:27:03 heh, possibly 18:27:30 ehird, spacecraft navigator in fact 18:27:36 says google 18:27:36 ais523: do you know how that started btw? It's not the Speakor. 18:27:41 no idea 18:27:49 speakor... wth is that 18:27:55 Agoran spelling 18:27:56 Speaker is an agoran office. 18:28:00 Agoran spells offices with or. 18:28:03 so rulekeeper is Rulekeepor 18:28:03 Did you mean: speaker Top 2 results shown 18:28:06 but it's Speaker, not Speakor 18:28:10 and I was wondering why 18:28:13 speaker was there from the start 18:28:15 so it must be newer than that 18:28:21 and I was wondering how it started 18:28:41 ehird, go read the ml archive 18:28:50 AnMaster: dude, it's from 1993 to present 18:28:56 and a large number of years were lost 18:28:56 ehird: when i was around it was only for -keepor 18:29:02 I think the current logs start around 2004, right ais523? 18:29:03 ehird, surely there is a "search" feature 18:29:07 AnMaster: no 18:29:13 ehird, that's crappy 18:29:13 i don't think it was Bankor, say 18:29:13 and as I said, pre-2004 logs are lost 18:29:19 that true 18:29:20 AnMaster: it's just mailman. 18:29:20 too* 18:29:30 ehird, right. Crappy in other words. 18:29:33 it was logged on escribe.com 18:29:38 which then promptly died and took all logs with it 18:29:54 and you guys think i'm crazy to hate rafb.net :-) 18:30:11 well, yes 18:30:16 rafb.net always takes logs with it 18:30:21 for the others, it's less predictable 18:30:37 I always set expire on any other pastebins when pasting to this channel 18:30:41 just to annoy ehird 18:30:52 oh and ais523's program above was set to expire I noticed 18:30:58 the underload interpreter 18:30:58 AnMaster: no it wasn't 18:31:03 sure 18:31:13 I'm pretty sure it was 18:31:18 maybe I misread 18:31:23 we'll see who's laughing when civilization collapses because we couldn't find the specs to a nuclear anti-destruction shield that were pasted on rafb.net 3 years ago 18:31:44 the last action done by humanity? reading the logs where everyone praises its technical prowess. 18:31:47 *BOOM* 18:32:24 yay a 72 KB executable for cfunge *with* the floating point fingerprints. 18:32:34 Deewiant, can you get such a small ccbi 18:33:09 without floating point using fingerprints: 59 KB 18:33:12 No, even hello world with a non-minimized D stdlib is over 100 KB 18:33:54 And minimizing the stdlib would result in pretty much C :-P 18:34:51 ARGH, just how much memory does Java WANT X_X 18:34:59 GregorR, what 18:35:02 ulimit -v $(( 64 * 1024 )) # not enough for java 18:35:03 a lot I guess 18:35:10 ulimit -v $(( 256 * 1024 )) # not enough for java 18:35:37 -march=native -Os -DNDEBUG -fno-unwind-tables -fno-async-unwind-tables -Wl,-O1,-s 18:35:39 btw 18:35:58 the key things there are "-fno-unwind-tables -fno-async-unwind-tables" 18:36:08 even for C code gcc generates unwind stuff 18:36:11 even with no debugging 18:36:27 and even with those I still have .eh_frame and .eh_frame_hdr 18:36:31 but a lot smaller such sections 18:39:06 GregorR, err I think it over-allocates 18:39:11 or something like that 18:39:17 there is a command line option iirc 18:39:21 Yeah, I'm trying -Xmx32m 18:39:24 Doesn't seem happy still X_X 18:39:39 ah you tried that one 18:39:42 You can tweak the initial Java heap sizes and such with something like "-Xms16m" to make it start with a 16-megabyte heap; I have no idea what the default could be. Although I guess setting the limit might work just as well. 18:39:51 -Xss set java thread stack size 18:39:54 what about that 18:40:04 Still, it seems to use a horrible amount of virtual memory, not so much resident. 18:40:25 Virtual size of this one java process is 1413696k, resident size 55960k. 18:40:52 GregorR, found out where the buffer came from btw 18:41:19 ? 18:42:18 Virtual usage doesn't really matter, does it? 18:42:39 GregorR, for cfunge running on mycology 18:42:40 Virtual memory usage is irrelevant 18:42:52 after it quit and then still sent it after reconnect 18:43:47 AnMaster: Yeah? 18:44:01 Running foobar2000 in Wine results in four processes with 3.6 gigs of virtual memory usage 18:44:10 GregorR, ... question was: have you fixed that issue or not 18:44:28 OH 18:44:30 lawlehcoptahs 18:44:31 No. 18:44:39 GregorR: *roflcopter? 18:44:48 I prefer lawlehcoptahs 18:44:58 Deewiant, I can get a full featured cfunge (32-bit cells, -Os, stripped) in 96 K for x86_64 18:45:02 less for 32-bit x86 I bet 18:45:04 let me try 18:45:18 Yes, C tends to result in small executables, especially with dynamic linking. 18:45:23 Has anyone said they cared yet, AnMaster? :P 18:45:35 ehird, the embedded marked! 18:46:03 I got a call from Nokia about using it on their phones today. They said something about needing a fingerprint GPRS though. 18:46:19 87k for 32-bit x86 18:46:32 UPX it 18:46:34 Deewiant, I'll try static linking, sec 18:46:37 According to /proc//maps the Java VM has one exactly 617.5M-sized anonymous mapping, and one 308.75M one. I'm guessing those are some sort of fraction-of-available-memory things. 18:47:18 -rwxr-xr-x 1 ais523 ais523 13892 2009-05-02 18:46 derl 18:47:19 linking errors for 32-bit ncurses hm 18:47:21 that's after stripping 18:47:22 it can't find it 18:48:11 On the subject of file sizes of unrelated things: 18:48:13 -rwxr-xr-x 1 deewiant deewiant 4669 2009-04-12 22:48 dobelx64 18:48:18 ah my fault 18:48:27 Deewiant, that's impressive yes 18:48:46 Stripping increased its size to 4888 18:48:50 that's writtten in asm, isn't it? 18:48:55 ais523: with custom headers 18:48:55 Yep. 18:48:56 also, how does stripping make something /bigger/? 18:49:01 I don't know. 18:49:09 strip -s turned 4669 into 4888. 18:49:26 alignment? 18:49:44 Start of section headers: 120 (bytes into file) 18:49:47 Start of section headers: 4696 (bytes into file) 18:49:48 Start of section headers: 4696 (bytes into file) 18:49:50 Oops 18:49:55 Anyway, that changed, at least. 18:50:18 ais523: Right, that's it, I'm writing an optimized underload compirer. 18:50:19 It also renamed STRTAB to .shstrtab, which adds a few bytes. 18:50:22 Yes, compirer. 18:50:27 ehird: optimized for what? 18:50:35 ais523: Speed. Memory. Ponies. 18:50:39 Compiling, obviously. 18:50:39 Ducks. 18:50:57 ehird: are you going to base it on the existing Underload compiler? 18:51:01 meh 18:51:04 No. I lost the code to that. 18:51:14 I wanna call it overload in reference to overclocking but dammit that's taken :-) 18:51:24 * AnMaster tries on a non-multilib system 18:51:36 please make it handle ((+):*:^):^ well 18:51:51 you may want to add a ulimit when running that, though 18:52:08 !ul ((+):*:^):^ 18:52:13 err 18:52:17 !underload ((+):*:^):^ 18:52:21 no? 18:52:23 !help 18:52:23 Supported commands: bf_txtgen help info 1l 2l adjust axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf16 bf32 bf8 dimensifuck glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl 18:52:28 ais523: (+)(:*:^):^ grows longer, no? 18:52:30 err... ((+)S:*:^):^ 18:52:38 !underload ((+)S:*:^):^ 18:52:38 +++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ 18:53:05 you can't manage more than about 16 +s that way 18:53:13 unless you optimise 18:57:27 Deewiant, it is larger, because I can't strip that unwind info from the statically linked libraries 18:57:43 Of course it's larger. 18:58:25 Deewiant, yes but a large chunk of it is "useless" unwind info! 18:58:41 And a large chunk of CCBI is "useless" TypeInfo! 18:58:46 And ModuleInfo, and whatever. 18:58:51 22 KB! 18:58:58 Oh noes111 18:59:14 anyway 865KB for this full featured cfunge, stripped. 18:59:30 22 KB is unwind info from linked libraries 18:59:35 cfunge 0.4.0 [+con +trace +exact-bounds +ncurses p:32 c:32] 18:59:36 btw 18:59:45 ais523, were you here when I added that 18:59:58 what, exact bounds? 19:00:01 no 19:00:03 feature string 19:00:10 I saw you developing it 19:00:11 oh right 19:00:12 but not the finished product 19:00:16 yes I remember it now 19:00:36 http://rafb.net/p/yVnwkh20.html 19:01:52 -!- WangZeDong has joined. 19:13:19 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 19:14:19 I wish C had more exact ways to tell the compiler about aliasing 19:14:23 and other stuff 19:14:27 there's restrict 19:14:30 and data types 19:14:51 ais523, rather crude. You can't say "this one will alias exactly this one, might alias that one, and won't alias anything else" 19:15:14 yep, splint annoys me about that too 19:15:20 because you can't specify aliasing precisely enough 19:15:38 ais523, and you can't say "this pointer in your parameter list points to a block that is guaranteed to be aligned on a 16 byte boundary" 19:15:44 well ICC can do the latter 19:15:47 with a pragma 19:15:49 but GCC can't 19:16:04 when will people learn that c is fundamentally flawed 19:16:30 ehird, not fundamentally. 19:16:35 yes, fundamentally 19:16:40 For a start, what would you call cobol then 19:16:46 not a language. 19:16:52 good one 19:17:01 but it is a language 19:17:06 doubtful 19:17:07 at any rate, cobol is even more flawed fundamentally, but that doesn't make C unflawed 19:17:10 which cobol, the mainframe lang or the esolang? 19:17:18 if it is a *programming language* might be harder to know 19:17:24 heh. 19:17:26 ais523, they are the same iirc 19:17:30 no, they aren't 19:17:38 there's an esolang called COBOL just to cause confusion 19:17:41 based on playing cards, IIRC 19:17:53 does anyone know why a failed login to a unix system lags a lot before telling you? 19:17:57 a security measure/ 19:17:58 ? 19:18:02 it's irritating 19:18:07 C has like 4 decades of workarounds, libraries, and coder experience to work around the flaws though 19:18:07 yep, to prevent brute-forcing via a plugged-in keyboard 19:18:13 well, keyboard simulator 19:18:20 lawl. 19:18:20 I think it's exactly 1 second of lag 19:18:25 it's grrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr 19:18:33 and bruteforce by telnet, obviously 19:18:36 yes 19:18:56 a good security cage is enough to make most unixy systems secure against even physical access, if they can't get through the cage 19:19:07 arguably that isn't physical access, though 19:20:15 -!- Sgeo has joined. 19:20:27 There's a couple-second sleep when the system shuts down after sending SIGTERM, too, even though it could continue early if all processes responded to the SIGTERM 19:21:14 of course, if they slowhashed the passwords, there could be another reason for the lag 19:21:24 but I don't think most Linux distros use slowhashing by defualt 19:21:26 *default 19:21:49 slowhashing? 19:22:03 Sgeo: using a hash function that's really computationally expensive to compute 19:22:14 so that even if someone gets read access to /etc/shadw somehow, bruteforcing is impractical 19:22:15 Why would that be done? 19:22:17 oh 19:23:11 Do any Linux distros encrypt the files with the user's password? 19:23:15 That would make sense, right? 19:23:21 no, because they don't know what it is 19:23:47 I meant the user's files, not the system files 19:23:51 Ubuntu lets you encrypt keyrings, though 19:24:05 and if you give the same password for them as your login password, then they'll be unlocked at login 19:24:08 if you check the box to let you do that 19:24:18 and then the passwords the files are actually encrypted with are in there 19:24:22 well, privkeys 19:24:27 back 19:24:35 (sorry had to go afk due to an optical failure) 19:24:53 ais523, both cobol are esolangs IMO ;P 19:25:01 one also happens to be a mainframe one as well 19:26:50 http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/COBOL#COBOL_2002_and_object-oriented_COBOL 19:26:52 Oh 19:26:53 my 19:27:55 does anyone know why a failed login to a unix system lags a lot before telling you? 19:27:57 so change it 19:28:05 How. 19:28:14 ehird, pam config iirc 19:28:22 so somewhere in /etc/pam.d/* 19:28:35 ehird, but why did it fail in the first place 19:28:52 you don't typo your password a lot in general 19:28:54 bbl food 19:33:56 (sorry had to go afk due to an optical failure) <<< sorry to hear you broke your glasses 19:36:50 -!- EgoBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:36:57 -!- EgoBot has joined. 19:37:41 Think plash is secure enough to run arbitrary C code? X-P 19:37:52 Shur! 19:37:54 !c 2+2 19:37:55 (I've seen it done) 19:38:05 GregorR: just run them in user mode linux 19:38:15 geordi runs arbitrary C++ 19:38:18 Yeah, that would be super, boot a UML every time X-P 19:38:29 Deewiant: but is massively complex 19:38:34 GregorR: No. 19:38:42 GregorR: Just reboot it when it starts doing weird shit 19:38:43 ehird: What did you expect, it's C++ after all ;-) 19:39:03 Deewiant: technically it's written in haskell 19:39:13 Yes, but it has to deal with C++ 19:39:28 ??????? 19:39:37 FWIW it also provides some handy C++-related tools which have nothing to do with running C++, which add to the complexity 19:42:55 -!- ehird_ has joined. 19:43:03 Yep, I still like this client. 19:43:08 !c printf("Hello, world!\n"); 19:43:09 Hello, world! 19:43:12 :P 19:43:13 YAY 19:43:16 !c malloc(4587348957345345) 19:43:19 SECURITY FIRST, KIDS 19:43:25 It still has all the same limits :P 19:43:25 !c free(0) 19:43:33 !c printf("%i\n",1/0) 19:43:33 !c printf("%i\n",1/0); 19:43:38 DIE DIE DIE 19:44:05 Just for ehird_, I'm outputting stderr to stdout :P 19:44:08 !c free(0) 19:44:15 !c free(0); 19:44:19 Or, y'know, failing to, whatever. 19:44:20 !c } 19:44:21 :8: error: expected identifier or '(' before 'return' 19:44:31 GregorR: Use clang, foo 19:44:48 How is that a plus? 19:44:51 !c free(0) 19:45:00 Argh, where's my stderr X-P 19:45:05 !c free(beer) 19:45:06 !c fprintf(stderr, "Hello, world!\n"); 19:45:06 : In function 'main': 19:45:07 Hello, world! 19:45:25 GregorR: Clang is awesome 19:45:32 ehird_: It compiles to llvm, no? 19:45:36 Yes. 19:45:38 Yes it does 19:45:47 It compiles cfunge, doesn't it AnMaster? 19:45:51 Therefore it can compile everything. 19:46:04 As far as I'm concerned, llvm is just yet one more environment to support ... unless llvm has nifty sandboxing support. 19:46:15 !c system("ls /"); 19:46:16 bin 19:46:26 GregorR: You do know that llvm compiles to machine code, right? 19:46:43 It's just an intermediate step in the compilation process. 19:46:46 ehird_: I thought it was a JIT ... >_> 19:46:51 It can be 19:46:56 Ahhhhhhhh 19:46:59 !c system("ls /home/egobot/"); 19:47:00 egobot.hg 19:47:11 !c system("rm -rf /home/egobot") 19:47:18 * ehird_ whistle 19:47:21 It should be read-only :P 19:47:26 If that breaks, it's totally my fault X-P 19:47:33 !c system("ls /home/egobot") 19:47:34 egobot.hg 19:47:37 Darn. 19:47:38 Yeah, nothing deleted. 19:47:43 ehird_, what compiles cfunge 19:47:46 oh clang 19:47:46 AnMaster: clang 19:47:48 yes iir 19:47:50 iirc* 19:47:52 !c system("http://4chan.org/") 19:47:54 er 19:47:55 at least svn as of a few weeks ago 19:47:56 !c system("curl http://4chan.org/") 19:48:05 2.5 didn't iirc 19:48:07 I mean 19:48:10 clang at the time of 2.5 19:48:12 ehird_: That would work if curl was installed X-P 19:48:14 didn't work 19:48:18 but a later version did 19:48:23 haven't tried recently 19:48:44 !help 19:48:44 !c system("mv /home/egobot/egobot.hg /home/egobot/boo") 19:48:45 Supported commands: help info 1l 2l adjust axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf16 bf32 bf8 c dimensifuck glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl 19:48:50 !c system("ls /home/egobot") 19:48:52 egobot.hg 19:49:00 !c system("sudo rm -rf /") 19:49:01 ;_; 19:49:12 oerjan: that's not a very oerjan smiley :o 19:49:15 ehird_: You must think that plash is the most useless system ever :P 19:49:22 Gracenotes: But of course. 19:49:22 we are so predictable 19:49:37 ehird_: >_> 19:49:39 !c system("telnet irc.freenode.net 6667") 19:49:41 more to the point, that wouldn't work even on a completely unsecured system 19:49:48 ehird_: lawl 19:49:51 the sudo, I mean 19:49:56 how would you enter the password? 19:50:02 ais523: magic 19:50:09 !c printf("%d\n",2+2) 19:50:10 4 19:50:10 ais523, btw, so you can coordinate for ick release, plan is to release a new stable cfunge either this evening or tomorrow or soon after. I realised that that -DCFUN_IS_IFFI changed the API so I'm going to increment the API version and make IFFI handle it (so soon you will have to pull from my ick branch again) 19:50:18 !c system("more magic") 19:50:31 I wonder how the sandboxing is done? 19:50:41 ais523: http://google.com/search?q=plash 19:50:51 ais523, sandboxing what 19:50:56 ... 19:51:00 AnMaster is so blind. 19:51:41 ehird, C I guess 19:51:52 but I would have to read scrollback then 19:51:59 instead I'm going to code stuff 19:53:29 !c int i = 42; printf("%d\n", i); 19:53:31 42 19:54:26 19:51 AnMaster [n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster] requested CTCP VERSION from ehird_: 19:54:28 Smuxi 19:54:35 ais523 may know it; it's in the debian/ubuntu repos. 19:54:42 I don't know it 19:54:51 memorising the whole of the debian/ubuntu repos would be ridiculous 19:54:51 Rightyho. 19:55:00 err, do you call a -DFOO=bar a "macro" or is it macro only if it takes parameters 19:55:02 !c printf(__FILE__); 19:55:03 19:55:04 I mean, what is the official term 19:55:09 !c printf(__LINE__); 19:55:17 oh, it's a number 19:55:20 :P 19:55:21 !c printf("%d",(int)__LINE__); 19:55:22 ehird, Smuxi? 19:55:22 7 19:55:27 7??? 19:55:31 AnMaster: Smuxi. It's an IRC client for Gnome. 19:55:35 It is the nice. 19:55:36 Oh, right, each #include is on its own line 19:55:36 ais523, well you are the C expert here. 19:55:39 Also the minimal. 19:55:44 so what do you call them 19:55:45 AnMaster: I thought you were 19:55:52 ais523, not C standard expert! 19:55:56 and it's a preprocessor definition, technically 19:56:00 right 19:56:27 "[...] must now define the below listed preprocessor definitions to strings with the relevant values" 19:56:28 err 19:56:32 that seems messy 19:56:32 It's a #define 19:56:43 just because a term's used in a standard doesn't mean you have to /use/ it 19:56:47 especially when it's unwieldy 19:57:36 ais523, what would you recommend instead 19:57:39 AnMaster: your sentence is messy 19:57:47 ehird, agreed 19:57:47 ehird_: YOUR MOM IS MESSY 19:57:53 "must now define the below listed" *Brain turns off* 19:58:21 AnMaster: put an example there 19:58:26 and ask people to edit it to suit their purposes 19:58:47 hm 19:58:53 !c printf("%d", fac(5)); return 0; } int fac(int n) {if (n) return n*fac(n-1); else return 0; 19:59:06 bah 19:59:40 "The application has to be able to decrypt the password in order to authenticate users when they login." <-- >_< 19:59:44 I'm fekking around with it :P 19:59:59 !c FILE*in=fopen(argv[0],"rb"); while(!feof(in)) printf("%x",(int)getc(in)); 20:00:12 !underload (test)S 20:00:12 test 20:01:06 Just fixed !c 20:01:10 !c FILE*in=fopen(argv[0],"rb"); while(!feof(in)) printf("%x",(int)getc(in)); 20:01:21 hmm, why isn't that working? 20:01:25 ais523, it is a long list of defines with descriptions. I'll pastebin it so you can find a better way. 20:01:25 I'm not sure :P 20:01:31 !c you lied to me when you told me this was a program 20:01:40 !c puts("test") 20:01:41 7f454c46211000000000203e01000d04400000040000000060120000000000400380804002502206000500040000000040040000004004000000c01000000c010000008000000030004000020000000240000000240000001c00000001c0000000100000001000500000000000004000000004000000bc7000000bc700000000200000010006000c07000000c076000000c07600000020200000030200000000200000020006000e87000000e876000000e876000000a01000000a0100000080000000400040001c20000001c240000001c240000002000000002000000004000000050 20:01:42 ais523, http://rafb.net/p/gmZTe577.html 20:01:48 oh, it did work, just slowly 20:01:56 that's rather sparse, probably it's the header 20:01:57 ais523, that is not spell checked at all 20:02:01 btw 20:02:26 "Please define the following to string constants:" 20:02:34 ah 20:02:36 ais523: ew 20:02:43 Please #define the following as string constants 20:02:45 kthx 20:02:52 mainly as instead of to, but #define is clearer 20:02:55 ehird, I -Define them 20:02:55 :P 20:03:04 you -Define #defines 20:03:16 !c int i=1;FILE*in=fopen(argv[0],"rb");for(;!feof(in);i++)printf("%02x%s",getc(in),(i%20)==0?"\n":""); 20:03:17 7f454c4602010100000000000000000002003e00 20:03:24 Well that was retarded. 20:03:24 !c printf("%d\n", fac(5)); return 0; } int fac(int n) {if (n) return n*fac(n-1); else return 0; 20:03:26 0 20:03:29 Now EgoBot is spamming me. 20:03:32 whoops 20:03:35 ah 20:03:39 GregorR: yep, it returns multilines in /msg, doesn't it? 20:03:40 !c printf("%d\n", fac(5)); return 0; } int fac(int n) {if (n) return n*fac(n-1); else return 1; 20:03:44 120 20:03:44 ais523: Yeah 20:03:47 and !kill and !ps doesn't seem implemented atm 20:03:50 It'll get d/c'd pretty soon :P 20:03:52 ais523, that misses the point of "you only need to worry if you aren't using cmake" 20:03:55 ais523: Nope :P 20:03:57 completely 20:04:06 AnMaster: / 20:04:07 *? 20:04:19 AnMaster: "If you are not building with cmake, #define these as string constants:" 20:04:23 "Also any code using another build system than cmake (such as IFFI) must now define [..]" 20:04:24 you're welcome 20:04:28 ehird_, that would work yes 20:05:35 * GregorR is a little bit surprised that EgoBot hasn't been dropped yet :P 20:05:44 GregorR, from what 20:06:10 -!- EgoBot has quit (Excess Flood). 20:06:10 It's still spamming the binary at me :P 20:06:13 -!- EgoBot has joined. 20:06:14 Ahh, there it goes. 20:06:20 GregorR, still sending it 20:06:24 I guess 20:06:48 Yup! :P 20:07:10 !befunge98 aaa**k'A aaa**k, @ 20:07:21 hm 20:07:40 ? 20:07:41 GregorR, will it completely send the previous reply before starting next 20:07:44 !help 20:07:45 Supported commands: bf_txtgen help info 1l 2l adjust axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf16 bf32 bf8 c dimensifuck glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl 20:07:49 No. 20:07:57 then I guess I made an error there 20:08:05 AnMaster: it answered mine while still spamming GregorR 20:08:07 !befunge98 ak'A ak, @ 20:08:07 !c printf("Hello, world!") 20:08:09 Hello, world! 20:08:14 !befunge98 ak'A ak,a, @ 20:08:16 why is there malbolge? Is it even possible to fit a useful malbolge program in one message? 20:08:17 meh 20:08:24 coppro: !malbolge http://foo 20:08:25 Either that or befunge98 is broken in there right now :P 20:08:26 and yes: 20:08:42 !malbolge (=<`$9]7<5YXz7wT.3,+O/o'K%$H"'~D|#z@b=`{^Lx8%$Xmrkpohm-kNi;gsedcba`_^]\[ZYXWVUTSRQPONMLKJIHGFEDCBA@?>=<;:9876543s+O HEllO WORld 20:09:04 !befunge98 'A aaa**k: ak,a, @ 20:09:04 AAAAAAAAAAA 20:09:08 !befunge98 'A aaa**k: aaa**k,a, @ 20:09:09 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 20:09:13 hm 20:09:17 Well that's nice :P 20:09:26 GregorR, so you don't add linebreaks 20:09:43 Nope 20:09:47 !befunge98 'A aaaa***k: aaaa***k,a, @ 20:09:53 um 20:10:00 what happened there 20:10:20 I have no idea. 20:10:22 GregorR, did it hit ulimit 20:10:25 maybe 20:10:33 I can't see that output easily. 20:10:35 Or ... at all :P 20:10:43 !befunge98 aaaa***. @ 20:10:43 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 20:10:47 ok 20:10:49 that was odd 20:10:57 as in slower than I expected 20:11:02 !befunge98 aaaa*** . a, @ 20:11:02 10000 20:11:22 EgoBot does slow everything down by insane degrees :P 20:11:26 It's niced and slox'd. 20:11:49 GregorR, what does slox do 20:11:50 and 20:11:58 !befunge98 aaaa*** . @ 20:11:59 10000 20:12:06 why didn't it output twice before 20:12:13 -!- ehird_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:12:18 21.10:42 !befunge98 aaaa***. @ never got a reply 20:12:37 21.11:01 !befunge98 aaaa*** . a, @ got a reply 20:12:39 I have no answers :P 20:12:44 and so did !befunge98 aaaa*** . @ later 20:12:58 GregorR, not even on what slox does 20:13:02 :( 20:13:15 what is slox there for then 20:13:19 can you answer that at least 20:13:35 slox keeps a process from using more than a requested percentage of the CPU. 20:13:49 GregorR: set up a reverse dns for that codu 20:13:53 it comes as codu.xen.prgmr.com 20:14:07 ehird: Yeah, I know, I need to. I assume it involves talking to humans though, and that sucks ;) 20:14:17 err, why 20:14:19 GregorR, ok. How does it do it 20:14:48 AnMaster: SIGSTOP 20:14:52 It's el lameo 20:14:54 But it works 20:15:15 GregorR, um. cfunge has a compile time option to set a 3 second alarm() at startup. 20:15:31 this is used for fuzz testing 20:15:39 is SIGSTOP the right one? I would have assumed SIGKILL would be better 20:15:47 I don't /think/ that that should be affected by SIGSTOP. 20:15:49 oh 20:15:53 it's about CPU throttling 20:15:57 Yeah 20:15:58 right 20:16:00 so you have to be able to start again 20:16:06 Yuh :P 20:16:14 It's super-lame CPU throttling ^^ 20:16:24 GregorR, why not use linux built in stuff for it 20:16:27 like nice 20:16:37 it is portable too 20:16:37 You can't have precise control with nice 20:16:45 !underload (()(*))(~:^:S*a~^a~!~*~:(/)S^):^ 20:16:48 Deewiant, do you need that precise control 20:16:56 If you want to do your own scheduling SIGSTOP is an easy way to get it 20:17:08 AnMaster: I don't know if he does, but there are cases in which you do. 20:17:20 Deewiant, I don't think SIGSTOP is safe 20:17:30 How "safe" 20:17:34 what if it happens in the middle of a poll() or such 20:17:35 There are situations where you don't want a program to use much CPU even if the CPU is "free" 20:17:38 is that defined behaviour 20:17:48 AnMaster: you are using sigselect(), right? 20:17:55 fizzie: does Debian's advanced install let you do kooky lvm stuff? 20:18:00 AnMaster: poll can be interrupted by signals just like any other system call? 20:18:01 AnMaster: It's defined, but plenty of programs don't handle it properly. 20:18:01 like, obscure options to lvm 20:18:04 ais523, um you can't ignore STOP 20:18:08 so that is irrelevant 20:18:14 and it is pselect not sigselect 20:18:31 (Where by "plenty" I mean "none that I've found", but anyway :P ) 20:18:51 GregorR, I think it depends on very precise timing 20:18:55 to get it to show said issues. 20:19:02 Probably. 20:19:33 Suffice it to say that I don't trust Linux's scheduler enough to allow these programs to take 100% CPU *shrugs* 20:19:46 GregorR, set the uid thingy 20:19:48 um 20:19:52 let me find the name for it 20:20:14 I find that setting the UID of a process rarely changes its scheduling priority :P 20:20:15 /sys/kernel/uids//cpu_share 20:20:16 that thing 20:20:23 Hmmmmm 20:20:29 recent kernels onlt 20:20:30 only* 20:20:45 Doesn't look like I have that. 20:21:02 GregorR, it can use more, but setting them for different UIDs mean that some UIDs will be guaranteed more under load. 20:21:10 like per user priority kind of 20:21:16 Right 20:21:24 How recent is "recent"? 20:21:33 ehird: I'm don't think it does "kooky" by default, but you can start a shell to mess up with things during the install. 20:21:43 Gracenotes, 2.6.23 or something like that 20:21:50 not sure exactly what one 20:21:51 fizzie: I did that, then it wanted to reformat them :) 20:21:57 I'm on .26 20:21:57 err 20:21:59 GregorR, ^ 20:22:04 fizzie: It seems Debian doesn't have new enough kernel for ext4 20:22:06 GregorR, then I guess it was disabled in kernel config 20:22:42 ehird, 2.6.28, some older ones have ext4dev 20:22:53 AnMaster: debian is 2.6.27 20:23:11 ehird: sid has 2.6.29 currently. 20:23:15 ehird, try another distro, or build a newer one 20:23:19 fizzie: ah, good 20:23:25 it'll be in testing by the time I get my machine then 20:23:45 ehird, so you didn't like arch :( 20:23:55 AnMaster: ECOULDN'TINSTALL. 20:24:06 EWASTURNEDOFFBYINSTALLERANYWAY. 20:24:07 ehird, EPEBKAC 20:24:18 AnMaster: EPEBVIRTUALMACHINEANDARCH,LOSER. 20:25:05 ehird, EUSERNOTBOOTABLEINSERTNEWUSERANDPRESSANYKEY 20:25:31 So the Arch philosophy is "if you can't install it on a machine, it's your fault, always". 20:25:35 Great, I'll stick to Debian. 20:25:37 ehird, no 20:25:44 it is just my philosophy! 20:25:56 ehird, but I still think it was PEBKAC 20:26:04 I never heard of anyone with similar issues 20:26:05 Fuck that, I did exactly what it said. 20:26:09 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:26:15 ehird, what exact error message did it give 20:26:21 AnMaster: I don't remember, goddamn 20:26:30 you never mentioned back then either 20:26:33 But I can install slackware with my hands tied, I think I could get Arch right 20:26:49 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 20:26:55 ehird, hands tied behind your back or in front of you 20:27:08 I need access to a keyboard and a screen. 20:27:09 and slackware isn't hard to install 20:27:14 super easy even 20:27:25 It's harder than Debian 20:27:57 darn. grub can't boot ext4 systems that use extents 20:27:58 ehird, err, I had more issues installing debian than slackware. Both were about a year and a half a ago 20:28:02 same week for both 20:28:05 maybe it changed now 20:28:10 AnMaster: PEBKAC PEBKAC PEBKAC 20:28:12 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:28:15 ehird, possibly 20:28:31 ehird, and. Don't use ext4 for your /boot 20:28:32 duh 20:28:37 You're an idiot and so's your mother and you should never be allowed to install Linux again if an installer failed for you. 20:28:42 why are you allergic to separate partitions 20:28:43 Also, I need to use ext4 for my /boot. 20:28:51 ehird, why do you need ext4 on it 20:28:56 I mean you won't access it a lot 20:28:57 SSD alignment concerns. 20:29:09 ehird, you won't access it a lot still. 20:29:23 -!- sebbu2 has joined. 20:29:26 and you need just 32 MB to have plenty of free space on it 20:29:26 I don't feel like fitting it in with other, properly aligned, partitions 20:29:29 at least for arch 20:29:39 and gentoo 20:29:55 ehird: Do you need extents for it to be aligned properly? 20:30:09 my boot on gentoo is 9.9 MB, on my arch 20 MB 20:30:10 Deewiant: Probably not, but I cba to turn them off. :) 20:30:19 but I have a distro generic fallback kernel on arch 20:30:40 ehird: :-P 20:31:15 AnMaster: Is that used space or the whole partition size 20:31:22 Deewiant, used space 20:32:16 Look's like 11M here 20:32:18 Deewiant, whole space is 32 MB on gentoo and 64 MB on Arch. Which is funny since the gentoo one is 64-bit and the arch one 32-bit 20:32:23 Hmm, ' 20:32:28 Deewiant, I have multiple kernels 20:32:35 I have two here as well 20:32:41 not just the arch generic ones. But also my own ones 20:32:47 I use my own non-initrd ones 20:32:52 with arch ones as fallback 20:33:09 gentoo one only have two custom ones 20:33:18 current version, and new version to boot to next 20:33:24 sometimes it has three versions 20:33:49 in a complex system, see logs of channel from 2009 for more info 20:34:00 Hmm, system.map isn't required, is it? 20:34:14 Isn't it just for kernel debugging 20:34:17 20:33 AnMaster: in a complex system, see logs of channel from 2009 for more info ← how useless 20:34:24 Deewiant, not for booting no. But it is needed to interpret kernel panics iirc 20:34:32 since they tend to just contain addresses 20:34:41 ehird, very well.. 20:34:44 Yeah, so if I don't care about interpreting kernel panics I don't need the map 20:35:02 I keep 2.6.x and 2.6.y always, where x is last one, and y is current. 20:35:05 Isn't it recreatable by recompiling anyway 20:35:09 however 20:35:23 when I change from 2.6.y to 2.6.y.z I don't remove 2.6.x 20:35:28 I'll remove it just for fun 20:35:31 I always keep one from that level 20:35:35 And now I'm down to 9.6M. 20:36:21 Deewiant, moving /boot/old-configs to /root/old-configs reduced it to 8.5 MB 20:36:33 old-configs contains configs all the way back from 2.6.9 20:36:35 How big is your kernel? 20:36:47 2.6M /boot/kernel-2.6.27-gentoo-r8-L1 20:36:47 2.7M /boot/kernel-2.6.28-gentoo-r5-L1 20:36:59 2.4M here 20:37:01 a few modules, but not a lot 20:37:26 Deewiant, I used to have it at 2.2 before, but I needed more options later 20:37:48 like usb audio for connecting usb keyboard. Parts of that I couldn't build as module. 20:38:07 Hmm, I wonder where all that space is going given that du reports only 5.6M 20:38:09 (keyboard meaning electrical piano, not qwerty here) 20:38:22 Deewiant, block size 20:38:24 I have no modules. 20:38:31 Deewiant, you are crazy 20:38:43 Deewiant, there is stuff I only use very seldom 20:38:47 AnMaster: Doesn't du report block-sized anyway, except with --apparent-size 20:38:47 why would I want it compiled in 20:38:52 -!- sebbu3 has joined. 20:38:59 Why not, the kernel is only 2.4M anyway :-P 20:39:02 Deewiant, err yes that is what I said 20:39:23 AnMaster: Yeah, so why does df report 4M on top of the 5.6M of du 20:39:24 Deewiant, 6.6M for /lib/modules/2.6.28-gentoo-r5-1 20:39:37 a lot more for /lib/modules/2.6.27-gentoo-r8-1, since it contains the nvidia module too 20:39:47 which I haven't built for new kernel yet 20:39:56 Deewiant, what fs 20:40:00 Oh, there's scsi_wait_scan.ko 20:40:08 Which is something that couldn't be disabled 20:40:10 # du -sh /boot/grub/ 20:40:10 409K /boot/grub/ 20:40:12 Deewiant, ^ 20:40:18 So I do have 2.8K's worth of modules ;-) 20:40:18 what about your 20:40:24 394K 20:40:26 Deewiant, err scsi_wait_scan.ko can be disabled 20:40:28 AnMaster: ext3 20:40:29 I don't have it 20:40:40 Comes with the whole SATA system IME. 20:40:43 4M + 394K, you are a bit closer 20:40:47 maybe there is some other file there too 20:40:56 AnMaster: No, the 5.6M included every single file+directory. 20:41:04 Ran as root over **/{*,.*} 20:41:12 Deewiant, did the 4.4 + 394K then 20:41:13 wait 20:41:19 du -sh /boot == 5.6M right 20:41:30 and 4.4 + 394K == kernel + grub 20:41:38 or did I misunderstand you 20:41:48 du -hc /boot == 5.6M 20:41:56 Err, no 20:41:57 Deewiant, I have SATA system. I don't have scsi_wait_scan.ko 20:42:01 du -hc /boot/**/* == 5.6M 20:42:04 du -hc /boot == 5.2M 20:42:08 -c 20:42:12 what does -c do 20:42:15 df -h says 9.6M 20:42:23 AnMaster: Total for multiple files. 20:42:27 ooooh 20:42:31 do you have a grub symlink 20:42:33 err 20:42:34 boot one 20:42:38 like /boot/boot -> . 20:42:42 Nope. 20:42:44 ok 20:42:45 Why would I? :-P 20:42:48 no idea then 20:42:53 Deewiant, some distros install them 20:42:58 Why? 20:43:07 Deewiant, to make you able to write /boot/foo in grub config instead of /foo 20:43:15 thus less bug reports from users 20:43:19 Heh. 20:44:23 11M kernel26-fallback.img 20:44:24 -!- sebbu has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 20:44:26 menuconfig says SCSI_WAIT_SCAN = m 20:44:27 you don't have that one I guess 20:44:36 No, I have my own backup which is also 2.4M. 20:44:47 Deewiant, right 20:44:55 so you don't have arch fallback ones installed then 20:45:05 No. 20:45:16 Deewiant, disable CONFIG_SCSI_SCAN_ASYNC 20:45:17 I think 20:45:31 It is disabled. 20:45:43 hm 20:45:53 Although I think I'll enable it, that sounds good. :-P 20:45:55 Deewiant, I don't even have the option for SCSI_WAIT_SCAN there... 20:46:05 Deewiant, CONFIG_SCSI_SCAN_ASYNC is why you need SCSI_WAIT_SCAN 20:46:07 AnMaster: At all? / finds it 20:46:26 Deewiant, at all 20:46:29 weöll 20:46:29 /wait_scan 20:46:30 well* 20:46:39 │ Symbol: SCSI_WAIT_SCAN [=m] 20:46:41 │ Symbol: SCSI_WAIT_SCAN [=n] │ 20:46:45 Meh 20:46:52 !cxx cout << "Hello, world!" << endl 20:46:54 Hello, world! 20:47:04 GregorR: using that Georgi thing? 20:47:04 AAAAAAA 20:47:05 Scary, no? :P 20:47:11 !cxx cout< GregorR, is it georgi 20:47:13 0x600ca8 20:47:17 ehird: No, just g++ wrapped in the same gunk as usual. 20:47:23 ash 20:47:24 ah 20:47:25 !cxx cout << [](){"A PACKAGE FOR YOU!"} 20:47:26 * 20:47:27 /tmp/source.17577.cc: In function 'int main(int, char**)': 20:47:31 No c++1x :( 20:47:44 AnMaster: Disabled everything under SCSI device support and it's still =m. Couldn't disable CONFIG_SCSI, though. 20:47:47 Hahah, it became c++1x? 20:48:02 GregorR, why did you include the namespace std:: by default 20:48:04 GregorR: Well, it will. 20:48:06 it is a lot funnier to 20:48:08 AnMaster: IRC line shorter. 20:48:08 always write it 20:48:12 oh ok 20:48:12 no it's not 20:48:18 your definition of funny sucks :P 20:48:25 !cxx cin >> cout 20:48:26 ehird, ok, more harmonic 20:48:27 /tmp/source.17622.cc: In function 'int main(int, char**)': 20:48:36 20:48 EgoBot: /usr/include/c++/4.3/istream:123: note: candidates are: std::basic_istream<_CharT, _Traits>& std::basic_istream<_CharT, _Traits>::operator>>(std::basic_istream<_CharT, _Traits>& (*)(std::basic_istream<_CharT, _Traits>&)) [with _CharT = char, _Traits = std::char_traits] 20:48:40 yes 20:48:41 20:48 EgoBot: /usr/include/c++/4.3/istream:127: note: std::basic_istream<_CharT, _Traits>& std::basic_istream<_CharT, _Traits>::operator>>(std::basic_ios<_CharT, _Traits>& (*)(std::basic_ios<_CharT, _Traits>&)) [with _CharT = char, _Traits = std::char_traits] 20:48:41 that 20:48:50 20:48 EgoBot: /usr/include/c++/4.3/istream:134: note: std::basic_istream<_CharT, _Traits>& std::basic_istream<_CharT, _Traits>::operator>>(std::ios_base& (*)(std::ios_base&)) [with _CharT = char, _Traits = std::char_traits] 20:48:51 more harmonic. More like the error messages 20:48:53 WILL IT EVER END 20:48:57 see what I said! 20:49:05 20:49 EgoBot: /usr/include/c++/4.3/istream:242: note: std::basic_istream<_CharT, _Traits>& std::basic_istream<_CharT, _Traits>::operator>>(std::basic_streambuf<_CharT, _Traits>*) [with _CharT = char, _Traits = std::char_traits] 20:49:13 Deewiant, what are the deps of the symbol 20:49:22 Deewiant, xconfig allows you to see it easily 20:49:24 AnMaster: SCSI_WAIT_SCAN? How would I know? 20:49:34 Deewiant, Show debug info in make xconfig 20:49:35 ... 20:49:36 !cxx cout << [](){"A PACKAGE FOR YOU!"} 20:49:37 /tmp/source.17673.cc: In function 'int main(int, char**)': 20:49:44 Deewiant, I don't think menuconfig supports that 20:49:45 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has joined. 20:49:49 Hrm, I added -std=gnu++0x ... 20:49:51 AnMaster: I've only ever used menuconfig and oldconfig, didn't even know about this :-P 20:49:56 GregorR: does gcc do it? 20:50:08 Deewiant, it has "show all options" which let you see all greyed out options too 20:50:12 ehird: Idonno exactly what g++ does and doesn't support, but it certainly supports /something/ 20:50:14 and other nifty stuff 20:50:22 Deewiant, those things are in the option menu iirc 20:50:30 oh the xconfig one uses qt 20:50:32 AnMaster: ctrl+f doesn't find scsi_wait_scan... 20:50:33 qt 3 probably 20:50:42 Deewiant, maybe case sensitive 20:50:53 GregorR: add machine code! 20:50:56 AnMaster: Nope 20:51:01 Deewiant, show all options first 20:51:04 Or maybe it is but it didn't find it 20:51:06 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 20:51:06 works for me 20:51:07 AnMaster: I did, and debug info 20:51:27 Enabled everything under option 20:51:43 -!- bsmntbombdood_ has joined. 20:51:44 Deewiant, ah 20:51:47 it is hidden 20:51:47 It finds nothing for WAIT 20:51:49 that is why 20:51:53 Deewiant, yes it does here 20:52:05 * ehird puts http://mastodon.biz/ in a vm 20:52:08 Finds plenty for SCSI but nothing for WAIT 20:52:13 SCSI_WAIT_SCAN 20:52:13 type: tristate 20:52:13 default: m 20:52:13 dep: SCSI && MODULES 20:52:20 hm 20:52:28 there is no prompt for it 20:52:29 Like I said, always on :-P 20:52:31 that is why 20:52:39 I set it to =n in the .config but it got overridden 20:52:44 Deewiant, disable the modules option 20:52:45 duh 20:52:59 Deewiant, since you didn't use modules anyway 20:53:05 ehird: Give me a header for a .asm file :P 20:53:14 GregorR: No asm 20:53:15 machine code 20:53:16 Hmm, that'd work wouldn't it 20:53:21 ehird: OH 20:53:24 I wonder if it can be built as =y though, for the async 20:53:26 Deewiant, why 20:53:32 hm 20:53:40 Deewiant, if you don't have modules you don't need it 20:53:47 and it is a user visible option in older kernels 20:53:50 just not in newer 20:53:53 "You can load the │ 20:53:53 │ scsi_wait_scan module to ensure that all scans have completed." 20:54:09 Oh, maybe I should read the whole paragraph 20:54:14 Never mind :-P 20:54:29 -!- sebbu2 has quit (Connection timed out). 20:54:45 Deewiant, also I don't know if it has any effect on sata 20:54:49 or just for real SCSI 20:54:53 Ancient Linux GOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO 20:55:02 ehird, what is that 20:55:05 !underload (:aS(:^S^:)Sa:):^S^:(:aS(:^S^:)Sa:) 20:55:06 some distro 20:55:06 (:aS(:^S^:)Sa:):^S^:(:aS(:^S^:)Sa:) 20:55:07 http://mastodon.biz/ 20:55:12 an old distro w/ bsd userland 20:55:18 gcc 2, linux 2.0.x 20:55:25 7 years old at the time of that writing 20:55:28 which I imagine was a few years ago 20:55:40 it mentions ISDN lines in the download page 20:55:40 "The most recent version is INST0066, which is no longer all that recent (~7 years old), but I'm trying to decide whether to roll to one of the super-bloated newer Linux kernels or write my own USB stack plus SATA and UDMA drivers for 2.0.28." 20:55:48 the twin of the ion developer 20:55:49 clearly 20:55:52 naw 20:55:56 anyway 20:55:58 he's not insane, he just likes minimal sw 20:56:03 ion author is a raving lunatic 20:56:26 it uses a.out 20:56:32 yep 20:56:40 a.out ftw 20:56:40 AnMaster: it even has a netinst! 20:56:41 gcc no longer supports it nowdays. Since 4.4 it is obsolete 20:56:45 so it will be dropped in 4.5 20:56:47 also, I don't think he cares 20:57:00 nothing depends on gcc 4 afaik 20:57:02 ehird, it seems unmaintained 20:57:07 Seems? 20:57:10 he probably wouldn't use any gpl software. 20:57:13 anyway 20:57:17 1MB netinst .img boot GO! 20:57:21 ehird, like gcc 2 20:57:23 it was GPL too 20:57:24 afaik 20:57:26 err 20:57:27 I mean 20:57:29 gpl3 20:57:32 ah 20:57:32 aww, no bootable medium found 20:57:35 guess .img isn't .iso 20:57:42 ehird: It's a floppy image 20:57:44 ehird, floppy image 20:57:47 ah 20:57:47 Deewiant, grr 20:57:47 cute 20:57:59 floppy netinst 20:58:00 ehird, so you can't use it on your new computer 20:58:01 sadly 20:58:01 damn that brings some memories 20:58:08 AnMaster: I'll probably still a floppy on there 20:58:11 It's, what, $20 20:58:12 ehird, floppy netinstall 20:58:13 what 20:58:16 yep 20:58:23 AnMaster: that's what it is 20:58:28 a floppy "livecd" that netinstalls 20:58:34 ehird, you said it brings memories 20:58:34 pretty modern for 7+n years ago 20:58:38 where did you see that before 20:58:45 never, just floppy linux 20:58:47 brings memories 20:58:50 bad ones... 20:58:55 fresco and such 20:58:56 iirc 20:58:57 or 20:59:01 whatever the spelling was 20:59:06 firewall on a floppy 20:59:15 I attempted to run every linux distro I could find in like 2004-2005 20:59:19 Mostly shitty floppy ones 20:59:21 Was quite fun 20:59:24 nowdays even the bz2 image of the kernel wouldn't fit on a floppy 20:59:33 but I guess if you disabled some stuff 20:59:37 AnMaster: Super-bloated, like he said 20:59:39 ;-) 20:59:40 The first OS I tried when I got my AWESOME NEW ETHERNET ROUTER no more winmodem I can use other OSes yay!! was QNX 20:59:41 like audio and usb printer 20:59:44 Deewiant, haha 21:00:04 ehird, you used qnx too 21:00:09 so what did you think about it 21:00:25 AnMaster: it did not live up to my high expectations, I thought it was a desktop OS. 21:00:36 ah 21:00:42 rather than embedded 21:00:43 I see 21:00:46 right :-) 21:00:54 ehird, actually it does have a desktop 21:00:55 AnMaster: hey, it did look pretty 21:01:00 for, you know, development 21:01:01 mostly 21:01:05 the gui wasn't unmodern, it just had no apps 21:01:06 wow 21:01:07 SYSLINUX 21:01:10 from 1999 21:01:17 it even had that card game 21:01:17 LOL@SPLASH SCREEN 21:01:18 ehird: could you recompile apps for QNX, I wonder/ 21:01:19 Solarite 21:01:20 or whatever 21:01:23 forgot the spelling 21:01:24 ais523: it's posix 21:01:25 AAAAAAAAAA 21:01:27 The VM crashed 21:01:33 ehird, what 21:01:40 Can MS-DOS be run in a VM? 21:01:40 AnMaster: it's just too retro for virtualbox! 21:01:41 that isn't supposed to happen 21:01:46 ehird, file a bug report 21:01:50 here's the wonderful splash screen I got: 21:01:52 Deewiant, I have done it 21:02:02 Did it work? :-P 21:02:03 (WARNING: YOUR EYES WILL NEVER FORGIVE YOU) 21:02:16 Deewiant, worked under qemu yes., Decided not to try under vmware 21:02:20 oops 21:02:22 error uploading 21:02:29 even imgur can't take it 21:02:30 ehird, try ompload then 21:02:37 AnMaster: i don't put files in shock-site hosters 21:02:38 ehird, it can take anything 21:02:49 ehird, but you said it was a shock pic 21:02:57 and not shock site hoster, just shock pic 21:02:58 it's awful but not shocking :P 21:03:14 fine 21:03:16 omploader it is 21:03:26 !asm movl $72, %edi; call putchar; movl $105, %edi; call putchar; movl $10, %edi; call putchar 21:03:27 Hi 21:03:36 AnMaster: http://omploader.org/vMW00OQ 21:03:52 GregorR: GAS? 21:03:54 it faded that in before booting the kernel 21:03:58 ehird, aiie emebdded color profile 21:03:59 Deewiant: HEWW YEAH BICH 21:04:00 Deewiant, of course 21:04:04 GregorR, I love GAS 21:04:06 AnMaster: os x does that :) 21:04:08 nicer syntax 21:04:16 ehird, that logo is nice 21:04:20 not awful 21:04:22 and thus it died again; let's try... um ... 21:04:29 ehird, 256 colors though 21:04:32 parallels? 21:04:36 and dithered 21:04:45 !asm .intel_syntax; mov edi, 72; call putchar; mov edi, 10; call putchar 21:04:45 /tmp/source.17919.s: Assembler messages: 21:04:46 ehird, qemu or bocsh 21:04:47 Meh 21:04:50 err spelling for the last 21:04:53 qemu it is 21:04:55 and bochs 21:04:57 bochs is lol slow 21:04:58 Deewiant, nasty 21:05:01 don't do intel 21:05:02 Oh, woops 21:05:04 it is evil 21:05:09 It did work actually 21:05:10 ;P 21:05:13 But then later code fails 21:05:17 ok then live with that 21:05:28 GregorR, so you prefer AT&T syntax too then 21:05:28 Deewiant: I can fix that. What's the directive to switch back to AT&T syntax? 21:05:30 :D 21:05:35 AnMaster: Of course. 21:05:40 good 21:05:43 at last someone sane 21:05:45 !asm .intel_syntax; mov edi, byte 72; call putchar; mov edi, byte 10; call putchar; .att_syntax 21:05:46 /tmp/source.17963.s: Assembler messages: 21:05:46 Okay 21:05:48 Let's try this 21:05:50 Darn 21:05:51 qemu it is 21:05:51 and bochs 21:05:51 bochs is lol slow 21:05:53 well 21:05:54 yeah 21:06:08 LET'S GOOOOOOOOOOO 21:06:10 ehird, bochs got an awesome debugger though. 21:06:13 -OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO- 21:06:16 -OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO- 21:06:17 !asm .intel_syntax; movzx edi, 72; call putchar; movzx edi, 10; call putchar; .att_syntax 21:06:17 /tmp/source.18042.s: Assembler messages: 21:06:19 -LAAAAAAAAAAAAAAGOOOOO- 21:06:36 ehird, and wasn't bochs originally IOCCC entry 21:06:37 Apparently Deewiant can't even remember Intel syntax :P 21:06:38 or something 21:06:43 no? 21:06:46 err 21:06:51 * AnMaster looks 21:06:54 GregorR: I don't move constants into registers too often :-P 21:07:16 ah no 21:07:16 !asm .intel_syntax; mov byte edi, 72; call putchar; mov byte edi, 10; call putchar; .att_syntax 21:07:17 /tmp/source.18084.s: Assembler messages: 21:07:17 qemu 21:07:18 How much disk do you think mastodon needs? 21:07:38 GregorR: And FWIW "mov edi, 72" would work in FASM 21:07:50 !underload (-)S(O)(~:S:*(- -)S~:^):^ 21:07:55 AnMaster: ? 21:07:58 500MB? 21:08:01 But it complains about ambiguous operand size 21:08:05 Which is crap 21:08:14 it's "byte ptr", IIRC 21:08:16 ehird, qemu was related. Just not directly 21:08:24 21:07 ehird: How much disk do you think mastodon needs? 21:08:33 !asm .intel_syntax; mov byte ptr edi, 72; call putchar; mov byte ptr edi, 10; call putchar; .att_syntax 21:08:33 ~/ioccc $ grep -i qemu */* 21:08:34 Binary file 2004/fs.tar matches 21:08:34 2004/gavin.hint: see http://bellard.org/ for QEMU (Fabrice Bellard is an IOCCC 2001 winner), 21:08:34 /tmp/ccclhLmE.o: In function `main': 21:08:34 there 21:08:37 that is how 21:08:45 !underload (-)S 21:08:46 - 21:08:49 ais523: Nope, undefined reference to edi 21:08:51 !underload (-)S(O)(~:S:*(- -)S~:^):^ 21:08:52 wtf that's my name 21:08:53 Deewiant, att syntax is a lot faster to get it right in 21:08:54 !underload ( 21:08:57 Anyway, GUYS. 21:09:00 GregorR: And the directive was .att_syntax, incase you didn't notice :-P 21:09:01 OLD LINUX TIME. 21:09:05 AnMaster: No, GAS just sucks. 21:09:10 Deewiant, wrong 21:09:10 AnMaster: "mov edi, 72" should work. 21:09:16 But it's being an idiot. 21:09:17 HERE GO 21:09:32 Deewiant, um, you mean mov $72, %edi surely? 21:09:42 AnMaster: No, I mean intel syntax. I don't speak $%!@#%!@#%! 21:09:46 !underload (9)S 21:09:46 It boots! 21:09:46 9 21:09:48 !underload ) 21:09:50 Deewiant, I don't speak intel syntax 21:09:56 hmm... obviously it isn't capturing stderr 21:09:57 ais523, do you prefer Intel or AT&T syntax 21:10:03 AnMaster: Like AT&T, but remove the ^$#!%!@ and flip operands. 21:10:14 AnMaster: I grew up on Intel, but I haven't used asm recently enough to express a preference 21:10:14 And lose the suffixes on instructions. 21:10:18 AnMaster: Holy shit, mastodon has an ncurses installer! 21:10:18 although gcc-bf is AT&T syntax 21:10:21 Deewiant, no you add ^$#!%!@ and flip operands to get Intel 21:10:27 bbl food 21:10:31 err... intel has no such (#*$%*(@# 21:10:33 AnMaster: No, there's no ^$#@!!@#$ 21:10:33 just [a] 21:11:32 Why can't that crap understand 'mov edi, 72'. 21:11:52 Choose the web/ftp site to install Mastodon 0066 from 21:11:56 Pell (Oregon, USA) 21:11:57 Other 21:12:01 This is awesome. 21:12:19 Admittedly, it freezes then 21:13:44 Better download the real OS beta 21:13:47 Not the netinstall 21:13:48 ;-) 21:14:01 54kb/sec 21:14:02 awesome 21:14:21 ha, it comes with adobe acrobat 21:14:22 and sudo 21:14:48 sudo acrobat # watch as my system gets infected 21:14:57 ais523: vut? 21:15:09 there's a cross-platform zero-day bug in latest Acrobat 21:15:18 that lets PDF Javascript take over the system 21:15:27 Just disable PDF Javascript. 21:15:30 obviously the payload's different on different OSes, but the bug's the same one 21:15:34 Deewiant: well, that's the obvious solution, yes 21:15:44 PDF NoScript, anyone? :-P 21:15:46 ais523: it's adobe 4 21:15:48 :-) 21:15:54 and it's not acrobat any more 21:15:55 it's adobe reader 21:16:04 oh, not "acrobat reader" 21:18:01 back 21:18:02 !c printf("Hello, world!\n"); 21:18:03 Hello, world! 21:18:20 Deewiant, did you use Intel or AT&T first 21:18:28 I used intel first btw. 21:18:29 First? 21:18:35 I've never used AT&T. 21:18:36 Deewiant, I meant. Which one did you learn first. 21:18:40 I've looked at it. 21:18:40 Deewiant, that is the issue then 21:18:48 Deewiant, it is force of habit. 21:18:54 I have absolutely no intention of learning it. 21:18:55 AnMaster: you're a troll. 21:19:13 AnMaster: There's no habit involved. I've coded exactly one thing in asm and did it in Intel because I evaluated both and found the other crap. 21:19:26 ehird, oh. So all those persons saying Haskell is horrible, because they don't understand it, aren't trolls then 21:19:29 RIIIIIIGHT 21:19:37 what? 21:19:45 I didn't say it's because I don't understand it, I said it's crap. :-P 21:19:45 you're seriously being a retard, it's embarrasing 21:20:00 http://www.thedailyshow.com/video/index.jhtml?videoId=225919&title=snoutbreak-09-what-to-call 21:20:00 ehird, I met plenty of programmers who thought functional programming was stupid, because it can't do while loops and similar 21:20:08 ehird, they are retards. 21:20:11 IMO 21:20:22 What does this have to do with anything? 21:20:23 once again you prove yourself to be the one person who can say things completely irrelevant and act as if they're profound 21:20:29 I'm saying this is the same thing. You don't understand AT&T syntax. 21:20:33 aren't used to it 21:20:35 like fuck i do 21:20:37 thus you hate it. 21:20:38 it's awful 21:20:47 i know it, i've used it, i hate it BECAUSE IT IS SHIT. 21:20:52 You hate what you aren't used to it. 21:20:55 ehird, I disagree 21:20:57 AnMaster: Gentoo is awful. You don't understand Debian. 21:20:58 aren't used to it 21:20:59 and I agree with GregorR here 21:21:02 thus you hare it. 21:21:07 You hate what you aren't used to it. 21:21:08 I don't hate debian 21:21:19 then I would have no words left for Red Hat and *shudder* CentOS 21:21:21 AnMaster: C is awful. You don't understand Pascal. 21:21:23 aren't used to it 21:21:24 thus you hate it 21:21:27 You hate what you aren't used to it. 21:21:29 ehird, I do understand Pascal 21:21:35 AnMaster: No you don't. 21:21:35 I coded a lot in it way back 21:21:38 Evidence: You don't understand it. 21:21:41 Because you hate it. 21:21:45 You hate what you aren't used to it. 21:21:56 You hate what you aren't used to it. → 21:21:59 ehird, Deewiant said he didn't understand AT&T 21:22:08 so that argument is invalid 21:22:27 ehird, and you said I hate perl only because I don't understand it and such before 21:22:33 which is exactly the same thing 21:22:43 When did I say I don't understand it? 21:24:11 Deewiant, I have coded a lot in both intel and AT&T syntax. I strongly prefer AT&T one. But I wouldn't actually call the intel one horrible most of the time. 21:24:19 Deewiant, why do you think the AT&T one is so bad. 21:24:21 Why prefer AT&T? 21:24:30 &^!@#$!@#$! and the operand suffixes 21:24:33 Er, instruction* 21:24:39 Deewiant, what is this "&^!@#$!@#$!" exactly 21:24:41 Needless verbosity and sigils 21:24:56 AnMaster: For instance, $ in front of numbers 21:25:02 Deewiant, AT&T is what most other platforms than x86 use. 21:25:18 so while instruction set differ 21:25:19 That's not an argument. 21:25:23 you don't have to learn a new syntax 21:25:30 and I coded for many platforms 21:25:34 so yes it is an argument 21:25:36 You have to learn the instruction set anyway 21:25:38 not having to learn another syntax 21:25:41 Deewiant, duh 21:25:43 that was what I said 21:25:45 read 21:25:47 then reply 21:25:52 AnMaster: Understand, then reply. 21:25:54 so while instruction set differ 21:25:55 you don't have to learn a new syntax 21:25:56 ... 21:26:12 My point was that learning the syntax along with the instruction set is not a noteworthy additional burden. 21:26:29 The problem is learning the instruction set, not the syntax. 21:27:09 Deewiant, there is a difference between "hm... so how did you write a mov to a register in this one..." and "hm... so what was the move instruction and the register name in this one..." 21:27:25 when you coded for enough platforms not having to remember such details help 21:27:33 Yes, and it is a small difference. 21:27:38 especially if you haven't coded in it for some time 21:28:01 Deewiant, so you dislike those prefixes ok 21:28:08 like % and $ 21:28:18 so that is all the "&^!@#$!@#$!" 21:28:22 right 21:28:24 Yes. 21:28:37 Deewiant, a lot of noise for a small issue IMO 21:28:50 Deewiant, why should I have to remember to write -> in C. AAARGH 21:28:55 AnMaster: Exactly! 21:28:57 I WANT TO WRITE . NOT ->! 21:28:58 In D you only need to write . 21:29:02 Deewiant, I was being sarcastic 21:29:05 I know. 21:29:14 But I wasn't. 21:29:21 It /is/ a pointless distinction. 21:29:26 AARGH WHY SHOULD I NEED TO KNOW THE DIFFERENCE BETWEEN /**/ AND /++/ 21:29:28 that is D 21:29:47 * AnMaster waits for Deewiant's answer 21:29:54 D isn't so very different 21:29:54 -!- calamous has joined. 21:30:10 True, that is a pointless distinction as well. 21:30:29 I don't like D's approach of going for C compatibility. 21:30:43 I understand why it does and it's probably a good idea but I don't like it. 21:31:12 Deewiant, if you want a perfect language with no odd bits go use R5RS or someting 21:31:14 thing* 21:31:23 That's not what this is about. 21:31:54 Deewiant, yes, it is still force of habit. 21:32:00 so indeed 21:32:05 because sure you looked at GAS 21:32:09 but you were used to intel 21:32:15 Not really, I wasn't. 21:32:22 I could barely deal with either. 21:32:26 which did you see first 21:32:37 I don't remember, that's probably over 10 years ago. 21:33:09 Deewiant, oh also, you shouldn't need to write 0x 21:33:22 You don't, you can write h instead. :-P 21:33:27 nor that 21:33:41 it should be smart enough 21:33:46 You need some way to distinguish between different number bases. 21:33:49 so if it saw any letters in the range a-f 21:33:53 it would use hex amnyway 21:33:55 anyway* 21:34:01 f00 can be both an identifier and a number. 21:34:04 Hence 0x is needed. 21:34:10 or possibly always use minimal possible base 21:34:18 so 20 was in base 3 21:34:24 34 in base 5 21:34:28 :-D 21:34:28 and so on 21:34:32 That's a good idea for an esolang 21:34:37 yes it is 21:34:53 ^ul (-)S(O)(~:S:*(- -)S~:^):^ 21:34:53 -O- -OO- -OOOO- -OOOOOOOO- -OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO- -OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO- -OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO- -OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO- -OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ...too much output! 21:35:02 2^O 21:35:16 +ul (-)S(O)(~:S:*(- -)S~:^):^ 21:35:18 -O- -OO- -OOOO- -OOOOOOOO- -OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO- -OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO- -OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO- -OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO ...too much output! 21:35:24 !underload (-)S(O)(~:S:*(- -)S~:^):^ 21:35:25 meh 21:35:30 it is too long to write out 21:35:36 ais523, why is EgoBot so slow there 21:35:37 !help 21:35:38 Supported commands: bf_txtgen help info 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf16 bf32 bf8 c cxx dimensifuck glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl 21:35:49 a bug in your interpreter 21:35:49 AnMaster: my guess is that it's because it doesn't have a cutoff for too much output 21:35:50 or what 21:35:54 !underload (-)S(O)(~:S:*(- -)S~:^):^ 21:35:55 ah 21:35:59 It probably does. 21:36:07 It just cuts off /after/ it's run the whole thing or timed out. 21:36:16 Well, I guess that's what you meant anyway. 21:36:18 Deewiant, so he added that 21:36:28 since it spammed with me the whole mycology as you remember 21:36:30 last time 21:36:32 $ ./derlo 21:36:33 (-)S(O)(~:S:*(- -)S~:^):^ 21:36:35 -O- -OO- -OOOO- -OOOOOOOO- -OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO- -OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO- -OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO- -OOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO- -O 21:36:35 Oh, it did? 21:36:37 that's cut off by hand 21:36:38 I missed that. 21:36:52 Deewiant, go read log 21:37:01 from yesterday or whenever it was 21:37:03 err 21:37:03 How did you manage to run Mycology over IRC? O_o 21:37:05 2 days ago 21:37:08 Deewiant, it takes url 21:37:09 urls* 21:37:10 Ah. 21:37:17 Heh. 21:37:17 Deewiant, so I put it up 21:37:19 :-P 21:39:48 Deewiant, do !befunge98 http://rage.kuonet.org/~anmaster/mycology.b98 21:39:52 to see it yourself 21:39:53 in /msg 21:40:08 No thanks ;-) 21:40:14 last I checked it excess flooded off every few minutes 21:40:35 AnMaster: do you have sanity.b98 up? 21:40:38 that would be a lot saner... 21:40:55 sanity.bf* 21:41:02 ah, ok 21:41:02 ais523, no 21:41:04 It's fully Befunge-93 compliant! 21:41:10 someone else could put it up 21:41:12 if they wanted it 21:46:19 ais523, pull from my ick branch. 21:46:32 ais523, and I see no changes to pull from you 21:46:33 :/ 21:46:40 go work more on ick! ;P 21:46:52 AnMaster: final exams for me atm 21:46:56 so I have to be careful about what I do with my time 21:46:57 ais523, ah ok 21:47:03 going home, anyway 21:47:05 ais523, like spending hours on irc 21:47:05 Me too, but that hardly matters ;-) 21:47:06 meh 21:47:08 ais523, cya 21:47:15 AnMaster: yes, IRC is one of my favourite uses of spare time 21:47:19 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:47:55 * oerjan _assumes_ that wasn't sarcastic, but you never know... 21:48:56 !sh echo LAWL 21:48:57 LAWL 21:49:13 !sh echo Gregor shouldn\'t trust plash this much :P 21:49:13 Gregor shouldn't trust plash this much :P 21:49:46 plash? 21:50:10 !sh '; ls 21:50:25 Deewiant: It puts it in a file, that's just an invalid script :P 21:50:33 !sh ls 21:50:33 Makefile 21:50:48 !sh pwd 21:50:49 /home/egobot/egobot.hg/multibot_cmds 21:51:44 ¡sh rm -rf $HOME 21:52:00 Or? 21:52:08 Deewiant: Won't let you. 21:52:10 Deewiant: Feel free. 21:52:22 !sh rm Makefile && ls Makefile 21:52:35 !sh ls Makefile 21:52:36 Makefile 21:52:38 :-P 21:52:39 Deewiant: It's the '&&' that failed there. 21:52:50 Ah, duh >_< 21:52:53 !sh rm Makefile; ls Makefile 21:52:53 Makefile 21:53:00 Read-only FS? 21:53:04 Deewiant: Yup 21:53:33 !sh uname -a 21:53:34 Linux codu.org 2.6.26-1-xen-amd64 #1 SMP Sat Jan 10 20:39:26 UTC 2009 x86_64 GNU/Linux 21:53:37 !sh ls /etc 21:53:38 alternatives 21:53:43 um 21:53:46 just one file 21:53:50 Very little of the filesystem is exposed. 21:53:54 !sh echo /etc/* 21:53:57 GregorR, how is it done 21:53:58 !sh ls /bin | xargs echo 21:54:05 AnMaster: http://google.com/search?q=plash 21:54:09 GregorR, it seems fairly broken 21:54:11 !sh find / | xargs echo 21:54:11 / 21:54:22 AnMaster: Broken in what way? It seems to work great to me. 21:54:24 !sh ls / 21:54:25 !sh ls /bin 21:54:28 !sh echo /* 21:54:33 like those 21:54:39 I would have expected to see /bin and such 21:54:42 Or it's just slow. 21:54:46 !sh echo 1 21:54:46 1 21:54:48 Or not. 21:54:53 !sh ls /bin | xargs echo 21:54:53 bash busybox cat chgrp chmod chown chvt cp cpio date dd df dir dmesg dnsdomainname dumpkeys echo ed egrep false fgconsole fgrep fuser grep gunzip gzexe gzip hostname ip kbd_mode kill less lessecho lessfile lesskey lesspipe ln loadkeys login ls lsmod mkdir mknod mktemp more mount mountpoint mt mt-gnu mv nano nc nc.traditional netcat netstat open openvt pidof ping ping6 ps pwd rbash readlink rm rmdir rnano run-parts sed setfont sh sleep stty su sync tai 21:54:57 !sh echo $BASH_VERSION 21:54:57 3.2.48(1)-release 21:55:05 so 21:55:08 why did && fail 21:55:08 If you want insecure, 21:55:10 since it is bash 21:55:16 AnMaster: Because rm failed 21:55:24 ah right 21:55:27 !sh cat /proc/1/cmdline 21:55:28 init [2] 21:55:35 !sh env 21:55:36 PLASH_FAKE_GID=0 21:55:41 ah spamming msg 21:55:43 lets see 21:55:53 !sh /bin/file /bin/busybox 21:56:03 !sh /usr/bin/file /bin/busybox 21:56:03 AnMaster: The spamming is not going to be useful for >5 messages 21:56:04 /bin/busybox: ELF 64-bit LSB executable, x86-64, version 1 (SYSV), dynamically linked (uses shared libs), stripped 21:56:07 damn 21:56:10 dynamically linked 21:56:16 And if it wasn't? 21:56:18 !sh echo foo 21:56:19 foo 21:56:23 !sh env | grep LD 21:56:24 LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/lib/plash/lib 21:56:29 !sh whoami 21:56:34 hm ok 21:56:38 not LD_PRELOAD 21:56:41 it seems 21:56:42 !sh unset LD_LIBRARY_PATH; echo hi 21:56:42 hi 21:56:48 !sh env | grep LD 21:56:49 LD_LIBRARY_PATH=/usr/lib/plash/lib 21:56:51 !sh unset LD_LIBRARY_PATH; cat Makefile 21:56:51 !sh ls / 21:56:57 damn 21:57:03 hm 21:57:06 !sh echo foo; ls / 21:57:06 foo 21:57:10 The tricky thing about plash is that the LD_LIBRARY that's loaded in /allows/ it to see anything. 21:57:13 !sh unset LD_LIBRARY_PATH; env | grep ld 21:57:14 I_ARG=unset LD_LIBRARY_PATH; env | grep ld 21:57:16 By default it /can't/ see anything. 21:57:28 GregorR, how 21:57:35 AnMaster: It has a special libc 21:57:46 GregorR, yes right. But what prevents me from using another one 21:57:56 I mean a statically linked binary or such 21:57:59 AnMaster: It's in a chroot jail with nothing in it, running as a fake user. 21:58:00 or the asm thing 21:58:15 GregorR, a different chroot than the egobot one? 21:58:18 Yes. 21:58:31 (plash dynamically makes chroot jails) 21:58:43 GregorR, so egobot runs as root 21:58:46 since it can chroot 21:58:54 AnMaster: plash is setuid root to make chroots 21:58:58 ah 21:59:01 EgoBot runs as egobot 21:59:08 !sh ls /usr/sbin | xargs echo 21:59:09 accessdb activateCmosToken add-shell addgroup adduser arp arpd ascii2enUS_scancode aspell-autobuildhash assetTag avahi-daemon biosdecode chgpasswd chpasswd chroot ck-log-system-restart ck-log-system-start ck-log-system-stop cleanup-info console-kit-daemon cpgr cppw createUnitTestFiles cron cytune defoma-reconfigure delgroup dellBiosUpdate dellLEDCtl dellLcdBrightness dellMediaDirectCtl dellWirelessCtl deluser disable_console_redir dmidecode dpkg-diver 21:59:18 ... activateCmosToken? >_O 21:59:23 what 21:59:33 !sh /usr/sbin/activateCmosToken --help 21:59:36 !sh dpkg-query -l | xargs echo 21:59:38 hm 21:59:52 !sh ls /sbin | echo 22:00:06 err 22:00:13 why did EgoBot just say this 22:00:14 BTW, the ultimate purpose of all this silliness is that I'm making daemons work again, and I'd like it to be possible to write daemons in non-esolangs. 22:00:14 in /msg 22:00:16 SSH_CLIENT=65.183.185.209 36199 22 22:00:16 IRC_NICK=AnMaster 22:00:28 AnMaster: Its messages have exponential backoff. 22:00:28 I thought we weren't doing env any more 22:00:33 GregorR, ah 22:00:33 AnMaster: So that was from a much earlier env. 22:00:41 Daemons? 22:00:50 GregorR, how long will it spam me 22:01:00 Until it's done. 22:01:02 !sh ls /usr/bin | echo 22:01:10 xargs 22:01:11 !sh echo hi 22:01:12 hi 22:01:15 !sh ls /usr/bin | xargs echo 22:01:16 X11 [ a2p addpart addr2line appletviewer apropos apt apt-cache apt-cdrom apt-config apt-extracttemplates apt-ftparchive apt-get apt-key apt-mark apt-sortpkgs aptitude aptitude-create-state-bundle aptitude-run-state-bundle ar as aspell aspell-import awk base64 basename bashbug bdftopcf bdftruncate bsd-write c++ c++filt c2ph c89 c89-gcc c99 c99-gcc c_rehash cal calendar captoinfo catchsegv catman cc chacl chage chattr chcon chfn chkdupexe chrt chsh ck-h 22:01:18 !sh ls /sbin | xargs echo 22:01:18 AnMaster: By my calculations, 15 minutes, then once more 15 minutes after that :P 22:01:35 !sh echo hi 22:01:36 Deewiant: Old EgoBot let users run programs in esoteric languages that would get their own !commands. 22:01:36 hi 22:01:38 !sh ls /sbin | xargs echo 22:01:43 Deewiant: I want to get that working again, and nearly have. 22:01:45 weird 22:01:53 GregorR, that is irritating 22:02:06 GregorR: So you could add them dynamically over IRC, or what? 22:02:12 Deewiant: Yeah. 22:02:15 GregorR, just simulate the freenode model 22:02:21 AnMaster: ? 22:02:35 GregorR, simulate the freenode rate limiting 22:02:40 to keep within those limits 22:02:43 iirc 22:02:45 it works like 22:02:47 I don't know how FreeNode does rate limiting. 22:02:52 each second add 1 to a count 22:02:54 counter* 22:02:57 to a max of 10 22:03:00 or something 22:03:02 2-second sleep between messages is enough. 22:03:11 each time a line is sent, substract one 22:03:16 if you hit 0 you are killed 22:03:23 anyway I don't remember the exact valyes 22:03:25 values* 22:03:30 but the algorithm was like that 22:03:45 GregorR, does that help 22:03:56 I'm not sure X-D 22:04:13 and what Deewiant said 22:04:28 I think I'll just use exponential backoff but cut it off earlier *shrugs* 22:05:26 GregorR, why 22:05:32 just do the 2 second thing 22:05:33 Eh, I'll poke around at that later. 22:05:40 and cut it off after 5 or 10 lines 22:05:48 AnMaster: I have no prioritization between processes. 22:05:53 that is of course 2 second delay globally 22:06:06 GregorR, so do it in the seralizer process 22:06:22 AnMaster: Yeah, but you could end up blocked by somebody else's process, which is irritating :) 22:06:29 GregorR, otherwise you could still spam it off. 22:06:30 easily 22:06:37 just connect multiple clients 22:06:43 and all send requests at once 22:06:51 I'm not trying to make it impossible, just that you have to be actively malicious rather than just make a mistake. 22:07:07 " AnMaster: Yeah, but you could end up blocked by somebody else's process, which is irritating :)" 22:07:08 what 22:07:11 that makes no sense 22:07:13 round robit 22:07:16 robin* 22:07:17 of course 22:07:32 You seem to think that multibot is far more complicated than it is :P 22:07:45 I have a bin that all the messages go in to. And that's it. That's the whole setup. 22:07:52 GregorR, no. I think it *should* be 22:08:14 Not worth the PITA right now *shrugs* 22:08:16 "Plash modifies library calls by providing a modified version of glibc, PlashGlibc. Most executables are dynamically linked to glibc, so they do not need to be recompiled in order to run under Plash." 22:08:17 so 22:08:23 what if I got a static executable in there 22:08:25 somehow 22:08:29 anyway 22:08:42 GregorR, do you use plash for the !asm and !c ones 22:08:44 The tricky thing about plash is that the LD_LIBRARY that's loaded in /allows/ it to see anything. By default it /can't/ see anything. 22:08:54 AnMaster: plash is used for /everything/ 22:09:02 GregorR, even for cfunge there 22:09:08 Yes 22:09:09 it wasn't yesterday 22:09:10 Everything. 22:09:11 -!- Slereah has joined. 22:09:12 I'm 100% sure 22:09:16 I added it this morning. 22:09:19 ah 22:09:26 GregorR, does it still work correctly 22:09:30 have you checked with mycology 22:09:36 >_< 22:09:40 I decided I wanted to worry a little bit less about bug checking the interps :P 22:09:41 GregorR, what. 22:09:50 Mycology is 12 trillion lines of output, right? 22:09:55 How about "Hello, world!" 22:09:57 GregorR, just run it manually 22:10:12 GregorR, there may be certain features only that doesn't work 22:10:23 Bleh, URL for mycology X_X 22:10:28 mycology would check that throughtly 22:10:29 sec 22:10:35 !befunge98 http://pastebin.ca/raw/1410667 22:10:43 !befunge http://pastebin.ca/raw/1410667 22:10:50 (Of course, I don't even know if that's valid befunge98 >_> ) 22:10:58 Hrm ... 22:11:01 GregorR, http://rage.kuonet.org/~anmaster/mycology.b98 22:11:30 Have I mentioned that you're annoying? :P 22:11:30 GregorR: That looks like it should work. 22:11:43 GregorR, yes you have now 22:12:34 !befunge 'A,@ 22:12:38 !befunge98 'A,@ 22:12:39 A 22:12:41 well 22:12:45 that doesn't test much 22:12:47 * oerjan gives GregorR his "AnMaster is annoying" badge 22:12:52 BAD: 32x doesn't set delta to (3, 2) 22:12:53 oerjan, I'm not 22:13:03 i never said you were 22:13:09 GregorR, um. That doesn't happen freestanding does it 22:13:12 That's pretty fail-y for an interpreter right there. 22:13:16 i just distribute the badges 22:13:18 Deewiant, agreed. 22:13:26 it doesn't happen when I do it normall 22:13:31 normally* 22:13:46 It does appear to happen freestanding. 22:13:58 GregorR, sure you are using cfunge not the other one then 22:14:17 * oerjan gives AnMaster an "Elephants are pink, tiny with whiskers and can fly" badge 22:14:18 X_X 22:14:22 I can't reproduce it here. 22:14:27 hmm, i wonder what is the most optimizing brainfuck compiler and how does it do. 22:14:45 GregorR, and it worked yesterday 22:14:47 AnMaster: No interpreter on http://iki.fi/matti.niemenmaa/befunge/mycology-comparison.html fails at that. 22:14:54 Deewiant, nor does cfunge here 22:15:01 S - T - F - U 22:15:04 I'm looking in to it. 22:15:16 $ build/cfunge mycology/mycology.b98 | grep BAD 22:15:16 If the interpreter loads the fingerprint, subsequent lines will be GOOD or BAD depending on whether the interpreter behaves according to the fingerprint's specification. 22:15:25 that is all 22:15:34 which is not a BAD but just an info line 22:15:58 GregorR, maybe you managed to mess up download *wgets from that url to check* 22:16:20 wget-ed one worked 22:16:23 X_X 22:16:30 What part of "S - T - F - U" don't you understand. 22:16:37 I'm looking in to it, if I have questions I'll ask you. 22:16:40 right 22:16:43 If not, your spamming me that it should work is not helpful. 22:17:10 I'm going to bed soon though, early morning tomorrow. But I will be around for maybe half an hour 22:18:32 i have written some brainfuck-to-c compiler just out of curiosity, but i want to see world-class optimization ;) 22:19:11 libbf seems to have some optimization passes but i'm not sure. 22:19:41 lifthrasiir, I wrote one too. It kind of worked not very well 22:19:54 like it compiled all in a single function 22:20:02 lostkingdom caused gcc to OOM 22:20:11 -!- WangZeDong has quit (Connection timed out). 22:20:13 at 2 GB heap size 22:20:18 still growing 22:20:23 many compilers claiming optimization feature, in reality, only fold <<<>>>s etc. 22:20:57 some compilers optimize [-], but that's all. i have seen only three or four compilers which optimizes multiplication loop. 22:21:12 lifthrasiir, I did more. 1) folded +-<> 2) I made [-] set 0 3) [-]+++ -> set 3 4) I folded some loops into polynoms 22:21:19 oh I also tried to reorganise code 22:21:19 It actually works fine, something (now fixed) removed the \x00 in the input. 22:21:30 GregorR, ah 22:21:36 the \0 should be there 22:21:40 like +>-<+ 22:21:40 Clearly :P 22:21:44 became ++>-< 22:21:48 lifthrasiir, ^ 22:21:54 okay 22:21:56 which was then folded into 2+>-< 22:22:00 which was then made into 22:22:10 0:2+1:1- 22:22:16 so I removed the <> too 22:22:18 when possible 22:22:32 and only adjusted pointer when I entered some unbalanced loop or such 22:22:55 "4) I folded some loops into polynoms" seems interesting. any details? 22:23:01 lifthrasiir, I didn't optimise multiplication loop. I got bored before that. 22:23:06 ;) 22:23:08 lifthrasiir, it was based on some other compiler 22:23:10 forgot which 22:23:16 oh well. 22:23:17 and it only semi-worked 22:23:19 got borked 22:23:20 bored* 22:23:24 and yes it got borked too 22:23:27 let me find url anyway 22:23:31 http://hg.mearie.org/esotope/bfc/file/tip/esotope-bfc.py my attempt is here. 22:23:44 (change file to raw-file for downloading) 22:23:52 http://bzr.kuonet.org/before/trunk/changes 22:23:53 there 22:23:54 I think 22:24:07 lifthrasiir, it didn't do it's job very well 22:24:40 and polynom.h wasn't used 22:24:50 I got bored before that version 22:25:03 see simple_polynom instead 22:25:11 http://bzr.kuonet.org/before/trunk/annotate/head:/src/optimize.c 22:25:25 http://bzr.kuonet.org/before/trunk/annotate/head:/src/node.h 22:25:26 http://bzr.kuonet.org/before/trunk/annotate/head:/src/node.c 22:25:39 are the most important ones 22:26:39 lifthrasiir, tell me if you want any more info 22:26:46 or want me to explain it 22:27:53 well, i think my attempt is same as yours; 22:28:16 lifthrasiir, "bff4" might be worth checking out 22:28:44 it combines every <+>-s into the list and tries to eliminate dead code and propagate. 22:28:47 http://mazonka.com/brainf/ 22:28:53 lifthrasiir, mine or your 22:28:57 or bff4 22:29:06 my attempt 22:29:26 so tightloop pass unrolls one loop, primarily for multiplications 22:29:54 !befunge98 http://pastebin.ca/raw/1410667 22:29:54 Hello world 22:30:07 My sandbox sandboxed networking away from the wget that downloads the requested file X-P 22:30:09 That was dumb. 22:30:20 but since i'm using expression classes for intermediate representation i should write some simplification codes for it 22:30:24 GregorR, so it broke \0 that way 22:30:26 huh 22:30:30 and that is not done yet. 22:30:44 AnMaster: No, that was unrelated. 22:30:46 lifthrasiir, I think I planned to run mine recursively until optimisation didn't change the code tree 22:30:50 AnMaster: That was just because of how I was testing it. 22:30:53 ah 22:31:10 GregorR, so mycology works inside the jail then 22:31:14 if so good 22:31:19 Yes. 22:31:22 i got hello world program (as seen in wikipedia pages FYI) optimized to this: 22:31:24 mptr[1] += 9; mptr[0] += (8 * mptr[1]); mptr[1] = 0; putchar(*mptr); mptr[1] += 7; mptr[0] += ((4 * mptr[1]) + 1); mptr[1] = 0; putchar(*mptr); ... 22:32:30 GregorR, and if so you possibly doesn't need -S from cfunge. It would allow you to do some interesting stuff like file io and socket io 22:32:31 ;P 22:32:44 I don't want to give it sockets :P 22:32:57 I'm fine with file I/O at this point if you'd like to make a more precise option. 22:33:02 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 22:33:05 -!- puzzlet has joined. 22:33:25 GregorR, maybe I'll put that on TODO 22:33:33 Shore 22:33:47 it isn't something I'll add right now anyway 22:33:55 GregorR, what prevents the !asm one from making direct syscalls 22:34:10 AnMaster: Nothing. 22:34:42 Those were just a silly experiment (which, btw, is now gone :P ) 22:34:48 GregorR, ouch 22:34:51 they were fun! 22:34:57 They were X-P 22:35:08 GregorR, you removed them after I said syscall didn't you 22:35:10 ;P 22:35:24 No, but I was removing them as you said that. 22:35:29 The only syscall I'm afraid of is socket. 22:35:30 GregorR, :( 22:35:41 All the other stuff is fine because it's running in a chroot jail as a fake user. 22:35:43 hm... 22:35:57 iptables and match on uid 22:35:58 idea 22:36:07 !help 22:36:07 Supported commands: bf_txtgen help info 1l 2l adjust axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf16 bf32 bf8 dimensifuck glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl 22:36:09 ... iptables can do that? >_O 22:36:21 GregorR, iirc there is an owner match yes 22:36:37 If so, I'll set that up and put them back. 22:36:38 GregorR, not sure if it is part of standard kernel sources or just part of gentoo hardened 22:36:43 Ah 22:36:48 GregorR, go check 22:36:58 kernel sources it seems 22:37:00 I am. 22:37:02 since I have it in vanilla 22:37:18 22:11 GregorR: Have I mentioned that you're annoying? :P ← You don't say. 22:37:19 22:34 GregorR: Those were just a silly experiment (which, btw, is now gone :P ) 22:37:20 :( 22:37:22 :(((((((((((( 22:37:26 !c printf("NOOO!!\n") 22:37:34 RIP EgoBot-being-fun 2009-2009 22:37:46 ehird, C isn't an esolang 22:38:00 Don't care. 22:38:06 │ CONFIG_NETFILTER_XT_MATCH_OWNER: │ 22:38:14 │ Socket owner matching allows you to match locally-generated packets │ 22:38:14 │ based on who created the socket: the user or group. It is also │ 22:38:14 │ possible to check whether a socket actually exists. │ 22:38:24 GregorR, ^ 22:38:28 part of vanilla 22:39:04 owner match options: 22:39:05 [!] --uid-owner userid[-userid] Match local UID 22:39:05 [!] --gid-owner groupid[-groupid] Match local GID 22:39:05 [!] --socket-exists Match if socket exists 22:39:07 -!- tombom has quit ("Peace and Protection 4.22.2"). 22:39:18 Cool, it's in Debian :) 22:39:30 I'm trying to see if there's a way to make it range-based though. 22:39:32 GregorR, you use a standard kernel 22:39:33 eww 22:39:35 ;P 22:39:43 Oh, duh 22:39:46 userid[-userid] 22:39:50 yes 22:39:53 Bah, I'll have to make my own arbitrary-code-execution bot. WITH BLACKJACK AND HOOKERS. 22:39:53 That's a range X-P 22:40:03 ehird, why 22:40:09 ehird, read the context 22:40:21 AnMaster: PLASH IS FASCIST SYSTEM RESTRICTEr 22:40:21 R 22:40:32 ehird, he used that all the time for C 22:40:33 afaik 22:40:38 EXECUTION LIBÉRATIONE! 22:40:59 Yay Mastodon downloaded. 22:41:00 ehird, what is the dirt over the first E in the second word 22:41:08 it isn't on my monitor 22:41:09 ´. 22:41:12 no 22:41:17 oh right 22:41:18 small font 22:41:20 meh 22:41:42 -!- oklopol has joined. 22:42:03 * lifthrasiir comparing http://pastie.org/466231 (before output) and http://pastie.org/466232 (esotope-bfc output) 22:42:39 of course i didn't write template for expanding memory. :p 22:43:12 Mastodon time! 22:43:23 ehird, didn't you have it before 22:43:24 ... 22:43:29 AnMaster: the netinstall didn't work 22:43:40 so I downloaded the beta disk 22:43:47 ah 22:43:50 ehird, how large 22:44:00 AnMaster: 300-so megabytes @ 50kb/sec. 22:44:02 Took >1hr. 22:44:16 Screenshot of the installer: (it has COLOURS!) 22:44:23 ehird, AAIE that is large 22:44:26 ehird, where 22:44:31 Sec. 22:44:32 is the screenshot 22:44:40 lifthrasiir, hah 22:44:40 Sec I said. 22:44:45 AnMaster: http://omploader.org/vMW00cA 22:44:48 And it's not THAT big., 22:44:51 s/,$// 22:44:53 lifthrasiir, your optimise better right 22:45:02 It contains all the binaries, probably unstripped, with libc 5 and gcc 2 22:45:03 in tarballs 22:45:13 No networking at all, and a full system with things like adobe acrobat 22:45:16 lifthrasiir, as well as produces nicer output 22:45:16 (version 4 :-D) 22:45:23 AnMaster: not so good yet, but i want to optimize further so there is only putchar('H'); putchar('e'); ... and so on. :) 22:45:28 ANYHO! 22:45:46 lifthrasiir, would only be possible for a special case 22:45:49 lifthrasiir: you can optimize any loop with the same amount of s to a polynomial 22:46:01 ehird, yes 22:46:03 read scrollback 22:46:07 ehird: yes. and what i have done is exactly that 22:46:07 I know. 22:46:12 ah. good. 22:46:19 OK, AnMaster: Mastodon install time. 22:46:27 AnMaster: http://omploader.org/vMW00cA <-- simplistic installed 22:46:29 installer* 22:46:32 wow, it even has a helpfile 22:46:38 though it cannot handle non-constant increments/decrements for now. 22:46:38 but why so much transparent padding around the window 22:46:38 you can press F1 and get info on the current installer screen 22:46:40 including advice 22:46:41 in the screenshot 22:46:43 AnMaster: shadow 22:46:43 it seems odd 22:46:46 use a non-black BG 22:46:51 to see it 22:47:02 ehird, err I use the checker pattern 22:47:04 in gimp 22:47:05 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:47:07 Odd. 22:47:13 and I see it a third of the way 22:47:14 not more 22:47:39 lifthrasiir, so is it better than mine or worse 22:48:02 AnMaster: Here, have a screenshot of the help: http://omploader.org/vMW00cQ 22:48:19 AnMaster: i'm not sure, i'll check for them. 22:48:33 It's a pretty sleek installer for a >7 year old project by one guy 22:48:37 (especially for nested loop optimization) 22:48:47 Automatic installation GOOO! 22:48:50 lifthrasiir, I didn't properly do nested loops 22:48:54 lawl, it only does the first disk 22:48:56 no other option :D 22:49:02 lifthrasiir, and as I said I gave up on it 22:49:04 got bored 22:49:19 AnMaster: http://omploader.org/vMW00cg 22:49:25 lifthrasiir, is esotope-bfc written in C or some other language 22:49:25 then yours and mine is perhaps at same level, i also didn't optimize nested loops 22:49:28 now it's on to X 22:49:31 Xfree86 3.3.6 22:49:32 xD 22:49:37 python, and it's slow like hell 22:49:39 lifthrasiir, well not much 22:49:41 a bit I did 22:49:58 31% 22:50:01 Quick install! 22:50:07 ehird, what do you expect 22:50:13 it had to work on old computers 22:50:28 AnMaster: I dunno, so far this is the easiest, quickest Linux distro install I've done :-) 22:50:44 ehird, quickest ok 22:50:46 Kind of disillusioning. Yay, it's installing kernel version 2.0.28 :-P 22:50:56 And Perl 5.6! And Tcl/tk 8! 22:51:01 A veritable smorgasbord of languages. 22:51:03 teTeX! 22:51:07 It's bloated, clearly ;-) 22:51:07 ehird, what is the last tcl/tk 22:51:13 AnMaster: it was 8.0.4 this one 22:51:13 ehird, *mastodon* 22:51:16 bloated yes 22:51:17 and I think 8.6.something 22:51:26 ehird, perl 5.6 is old iirc 22:51:30 very old 22:51:41 v5.8.8 here is semi-old 22:52:02 AnMaster: it's installed, now it wants me to set up the identity! 22:52:09 Host name: yeolde 22:52:15 haha 22:52:16 Domain name: yeolde 22:52:17 fitting 22:52:21 ehird, err 22:52:25 ok 22:52:28 maybe 22:52:30 AnMaster: it just puts it in /etc/hosts, I think 22:52:34 or sth 22:52:38 [NEXT] 22:52:39 Sweet, it works 8-D 22:52:39 ehird, I hate networking 22:52:53 GregorR, so now we get !asm and such back 22:52:55 good 22:52:59 Configure this device by hand OR Use dhcp/bootp for automatic configuration OR Do not configure this device 22:53:07 hurr, when's the last time anyone last manually configured a networking device :P 22:53:09 Yeah, just a sec :) 22:53:12 !sh help 22:53:15 hm 22:53:22 !help 22:53:23 GregorR: It wants me to set up "Yellow Pages (NIS) administration" 22:53:29 I'll just leave NIS domain blank and NEXT :-P 22:53:29 GregorR, it's dead 22:53:36 Use ntp to set the time? 22:53:38 Yesplz. 22:53:38 "Just a sec" 22:53:39 you blocked it too 22:53:43 hey guys. 22:53:44 I bet 22:53:45 AnMaster: what's a good utc ntp server 22:53:51 ehird, hm 22:53:59 ehird, all use utc 22:54:02 fine fine 22:54:03 so most of them 22:54:04 what's a good ntp server 22:54:11 ehird, openntpd 22:54:12 iirc 22:54:18 no 22:54:18 i mean 22:54:19 domain name 22:54:21 :^) 22:54:24 ehird: http://www.pool.ntp.org/zone/europe 22:54:32 oh se.pool.nt.org 22:54:35 or something iirc 22:54:48 [0123].europe.pool.ntp.org, OK 22:54:48 server se.pool.ntp.org 22:54:49 yes 22:54:59 !sh echo hi 22:55:06 ... huh 22:55:12 ehird: Well, unless you want to use a UK one or whatever. 22:55:24 Deewiant: It's mastodon; I really don't care :-) 22:55:28 NEXT! 22:55:31 Meh. 22:55:35 Pick a timezone! 22:55:51 Europe London! 22:56:12 AnMaster: http://omploader.org/vMW00dg 22:56:14 This distro is nice :P 22:56:15 Oh, I've managed to entirely kill it, awesome :P 22:56:16 !help 22:56:32 -!- EgoBot has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:56:35 -!- EgoBot has joined. 22:56:38 !help 22:56:38 Supported commands: bf_txtgen help info 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf16 bf32 bf8 c cxx dimensifuck glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql sh trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl 22:56:41 !sh echo hi 22:56:41 hi 22:56:54 AnMaster: Gooooooooo! 22:56:56 ehird, shouldn't you be complaining about it not being GUI 22:57:05 Well, it's simple enough that I don't care. 22:57:12 Please set the root password for this machine! 22:57:27 I shall set it to the same as what my user password will be BECAUSE I AM HARDCORE AND YOU ARE A FEEBLE VM 22:57:36 !sh :(){ :|:& };: 22:57:40 Could not open new password file, left unset XD 22:57:43 GregorR, I assume you have limits 22:57:46 OH WELLS 22:57:49 if not: your own fault 22:57:49 AnMaster: Yup 22:57:54 !help 22:57:55 Supported commands: bf_txtgen help info 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf16 bf32 bf8 c cxx dimensifuck glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql sh trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl 22:57:57 I would agree :P 22:57:58 AnMaster: Wow, it has a dialog-based X configuration system 22:58:02 Most distros don't have that :P 22:58:17 ehird, freebsd does iirc 22:58:24 though that is a bsd distro 22:58:26 not a linux one 22:58:42 So does Debian etc but not many ones YOU like ;-) 22:58:52 ehird, slackware? 22:58:53 Configure the monitor, and it gives a long list of models. 22:58:55 Awesome. 22:58:56 VESA plz. 22:58:58 AnMaster: no way 22:59:04 1027x768 plz. 22:59:06 ok 22:59:07 *1024 22:59:14 PROBING YOUR VIDEO HARDWARE 22:59:15 Hawt. 22:59:16 1027x468 22:59:25 Deewiant, that sounds interesting 22:59:28 wide screen eh 22:59:30 *VGA* 22:59:32 REALLY wide screen even 22:59:43 YOU MUST INDICATE HOW MUCH VIDEO MEMORY YOU HAVE! 22:59:44 ehird, wow. I would have expected CGA 22:59:53 j/k 23:00:01 Let's say 8MB. 23:00:05 ehird, are you sure 23:00:10 it might crash if wrong 23:00:14 Haha it wants to run at 640x480 23:00:16 OKAY NOT VGA 23:00:28 My VM imitates Cirrus Logic GD5446 23:00:30 So I'll choose that 23:00:54 ehird, is it in the list 23:00:58 yep 23:01:02 ok 23:01:05 GregorR, hm 23:01:08 Test current configuration! 23:01:12 This is all on the installer CD still 23:01:13 AnMaster: ? 23:01:14 GregorR, do you kill all the processes in said config 23:01:20 err 23:01:23 said sandbox 23:01:26 The x server seems to have died ;_;;; 23:01:27 I mean for forks 23:01:30 No keyboard config XD 23:01:40 AnMaster: I /think/ so X-D 23:01:42 GregorR, what if I double forked. Would it still be killed after 30 seconds 23:01:47 GregorR, better check 23:02:03 It's having keyboard issues 23:02:33 Fatal server error: 23:02:37 You must specify a keyboard in XF86Config 23:02:42 AnMaster: Your megaforks are all dead. 23:02:58 GregorR, good 23:03:07 Eh 23:03:09 !sh ulimit -a | xargs echo 23:03:11 I'll fix it once this is installed 23:03:11 core file size (blocks, -c) 0 data seg size (kbytes, -d) unlimited scheduling priority (-e) 0 file size (blocks, -f) 10240 pending signals (-i) 16382 max locked memory (kbytes, -l) 64 max memory size (kbytes, -m) unlimited open files (-n) 1024 pipe size (512 bytes, -p) 8 POSIX message queues (bytes, -q) 819200 real-time priority (-r) 0 stack size (kbytes, -s) 8192 cpu time (seconds, -t) 30 max user processes (-u) 32 virtual memory (kbytes, -v) 131072 23:03:17 !sh ulimit -a | xargs echo '| ' 23:03:19 | core file size (blocks, -c) 0 data seg size (kbytes, -d) unlimited scheduling priority (-e) 0 file size (blocks, -f) 10240 pending signals (-i) 16382 max locked memory (kbytes, -l) 64 max memory size (kbytes, -m) unlimited open files (-n) 1024 pipe size (512 bytes, -p) 8 POSIX message queues (bytes, -q) 819200 real-time priority (-r) 0 stack size (kbytes, -s) 8192 cpu time (seconds, -t) 30 max user processes (-u) 32 virtual memory (kbytes, -v) 131 23:03:24 meh 23:03:26 !sh ulimit -a | xargs -1 echo '| ' 23:03:33 wut 23:03:43 Haha, no space left on device 23:03:52 ehird, too small disk then 23:04:00 AnMaster: I have no idea why that command didn't work :P 23:04:03 AnMaster: 512MB; it seems bloat was everywhere even then 23:04:04 You must specify a keyboard in XF86Config 23:04:08 Xfree86 23:04:10 O 23:04:12 M 23:04:14 G 23:04:18 !sh ulimit -a | xargs -1 echo -n '| ' 23:04:18 AnMaster: Dude. Xorg started in 2004. 23:04:23 ehird, oh right 23:04:32 ehird: Consider losing that tetex and whatnot. 23:04:44 WOW 23:04:46 It uses lilo 23:04:50 Welp, it's booting 23:04:51 Of course 23:04:51 ehird, and 23:04:57 OMG 23:05:03 WORST CONSOLE FONT EVER 23:05:10 ehird, pic 23:05:14 or it didn't happen 23:05:15 http://omploader.org/vMW00eQ 23:05:18 My god it's awful 23:05:27 It's like COMIC SANS, CONSOLE EDITION 23:05:31 :-D 23:05:37 ehird, my thought 23:05:38 exactly 23:05:51 lol 23:05:53 yeolde login: root 23:05:54 Login incorrect 23:05:59 UH THANKS 23:06:09 ehird, didn't it make you add an user 23:06:10 Keep guessing 23:06:12 AnMaster: nope 23:06:21 ehird, maybe because it errored out when it ran out of space 23:06:23 Deewiant: wat? 23:06:23 No users? :-D 23:06:25 AnMaster: no, it continued 23:06:29 Deewiant: We have root 23:06:34 it just forbids logging in to it 23:06:34 ehird, how 23:06:42 AnMaster: by skipping that step 23:06:42 hm 23:06:49 ehird: Keep guessing, i.e. try other users. 23:06:51 skipping *what* step 23:06:54 Deewiant: There are none. 23:06:58 AnMaster: The write-x-config step. 23:07:03 ah 23:07:06 !sh wget http://localhost -O - | head -n 1 23:07:10 ehird, try again with enough disk space 23:07:15 !sh wget http://127.0.0.1 -O - | head -n 1 23:07:16 Yes. 23:07:16 GregorR, what is that 23:07:18 I'm going to] 23:07:27 GregorR, ok that is localhost though 23:07:29 AnMaster: how much disk do you think I need? 23:07:31 2G? 23:07:31 AnMaster: Yeah :P 23:07:43 AnMaster: I was just pointing out the small oddity that opening sockets is OK, they just can't be remote :P 23:07:54 !sh df -h | xargs echo 23:07:54 ehird, whare are the specified system reqs? 23:07:58 AnMaster: none 23:08:06 ehird, try whatever crysis needs then 23:08:08 (spelling) 23:08:22 Lawl, creating a 2gb image freezes Q 23:08:26 GregorR, ah 23:08:37 ehird, Q 23:08:38 being 23:08:40 what 23:08:45 Qemu gui frontend for mac. 23:08:48 oh 23:09:00 Yay, it finished 23:09:01 ehird, try virtualbox or parralells 23:09:02 maybe 23:09:04 BTW http://www.colorforth.com/GA.htm 23:09:15 AnMaster: virtualbox's vm crashes on mastodon, my parallels trial is probably up 23:09:21 GO MASTODON 23:09:52 GA32 is a 32-computer chip in an 88-pin package 23:09:54 32-bit 23:09:55 or what 23:10:04 32 chips. 23:10:08 i.e. 32 cores 23:10:13 afaik 23:10:39 it's chuck moore's new company 23:12:03 53% installed 23:13:35 Heh, it comes with emacs 19 23:15:53 awesome, x almost works ;) 23:16:11 ah 23:16:19 HERE WE GO 23:16:19 ehird, almost 23:16:23 huh 23:16:27 AnMaster: cursor is just a black square 23:16:29 oh well 23:16:35 hokay, let's try this 23:16:36 ehird, did it let you set up users 23:16:43 Ah. 23:16:45 It's started xdm. 23:16:57 Er. 23:17:13 ehird, what 23:17:17 AnMaster: Methinks, that I have some work to do regarding X configuration: 23:17:26 uploading 23:17:45 Eh, it won't upload 23:17:49 Basically, the text is mangled. 23:17:58 ehird, upload it elsewhere 23:18:01 and I never had issues 23:18:18 that's because you didn't use Xfree86 in ~2000 in a virtual machine, AnMaster. 23:18:30 ehird, yes sure 23:18:37 but you said it "didn't upload" 23:18:43 and I was arguing about that 23:18:53 I never had issues with ompload 23:19:16 oh. 23:19:18 it just hanged 23:19:24 ehird, http://omploader.org/vMW00eQ <-- what is "Recovering jove files" 23:19:29 I googled and found nothing 23:19:35 jove is an old editor 23:19:37 ncurses 23:19:39 ah 23:19:56 !cxx cout << "jove sux" << endl 23:19:56 let's try this again 23:19:58 jove sux 23:20:05 url for jove 23:20:11 apt-cache show jove 23:20:21 ehird, I'm not on such a distro 23:20:23 you know that 23:20:29 so stop trolling 23:20:34 you've done the same before 23:20:35 Debianers love to troll apt-* though :( 23:20:47 ehird, ages ago 23:20:55 GregorR, true 23:21:12 GregorR: it's not our fault we have a comprehensive, stable package base at our fingertips 23:21:27 * app-editors/jove 23:21:27 Available versions: 4.16.0.70.3.1 {unix98} 23:21:27 Homepage: ftp://ftp.cs.toronto.edu/cs/ftp/pub/hugh/jove-dev/ 23:21:27 Description: Jonathan's Own Version of Emacs - a light emacs-like editor without LISP bindings 23:21:27 ah 23:21:35 no website 23:21:37 with screenshots 23:21:38 :( 23:21:56 I'm sure it looks more-or-less like emacs. 23:22:10 GregorR, stop insulting emacs 23:22:22 ............................................ ohhhhhhhhhhhhh kay. 23:22:34 GregorR, or did I misunderstand you 23:22:45 maybe you said emacs was great there 23:22:49 I'll assume you did 23:22:54 Description: ... a light emacs-like editor ... 23:23:00 Therefore I concluded that it looks more-or-less like emacs. 23:23:12 !cxx cout << "jove sux" << endl 23:23:15 well 23:23:21 you seemed to hate it too 23:23:23 This isn't Forte. 23:23:23 meh 23:23:31 ehird, err and 23:23:31 I knew nothing about it, I was just being an ass :P 23:23:45 GregorR, so which editor do you use 23:23:48 emacs I hope 23:23:49 ;P 23:23:50 vim 23:23:54 emacs can suck it 23:23:55 poor you 23:24:12 GregorR, you can't irc in vim as easily. Though there is an extension for it 23:24:13 vimirc 23:24:23 My text editor is not my operating system. 23:24:27 It is, in fact, my text editor. 23:24:37 GregorR, same. IRC is text 23:24:42 I'm editing my line 23:24:46 I'm editing text 23:24:48 fail 23:24:51 emacs would be a perfectly good operating system if it had a better text editor. 23:25:22 emacs is a lisp system. elisp yes. Which is not as nice as clisp or scheme 23:26:11 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:31:39 AnMaster: you use bochs right 23:31:43 what card does its generic vga emulate? 23:31:45 ehird, used before. 23:31:49 haven't for years 23:32:14 ehird, I more often use qemu and vmware-server 23:32:24 haven't used vmware-server since January 23:32:33 haven't used qemu for over a year 23:32:53 !forth ." Hello, world!" CR 23:32:53 Hello, world! 23:32:54 in fact I haven't used any kind of virtual stuff since January 23:33:02 GregorR, that's no esolang. 23:33:04 GregorR: what forth? 23:33:08 !forth bye 23:33:13 also, it's cr 23:33:14 not CR. 23:33:15 :-) 23:33:16 AnMaster: Neither is C :P 23:33:26 !forth ." Hello, world!" cr 23:33:27 Hello, world! 23:33:31 !forth 0 @ . cr 23:33:32 both works here 23:33:39 GregorR: plz to be printing stderr 23:33:40 gforth is case-insensitive. 23:33:43 AnMaster: CR isn't idiomatic 23:33:43 "Most versions of MS-DOS 6.22 do not idle the CPU when they are idle." Damn, I didn't know that 23:33:54 GregorR: forth is 23:34:04 Deewiant, what about it 23:34:13 A bit surprising is all 23:34:14 Your stderr is my demand. 23:34:19 !forth 0 @ . cr 23:34:32 ehird, he said gforth 23:34:34 GregorR: Can you please make it talk to the channel? 23:34:39 X-P 23:34:41 I haaaaaaaate having to switch :p 23:34:41 !forth 0 @ . cr 23:34:55 in file included from *the terminal*:0 23:34:55 /tmp/input.19662:1: Invalid memory address 23:34:55 0 @ . cr 23:34:58 !forth VARIABLE: a a @ . cr 23:35:05 hm 23:35:06 ehird: The problem is that stdout and stderr aren't serialized WRT each other. 23:35:08 ^ 23:35:11 ehird: So your cr came first. 23:35:13 !forth VARIABLE: a a . cr 23:35:18 GregorR: 2>&1 23:35:31 ehird: The problem is that stdout and stderr aren't serialized WRT each other. 23:35:37 ... 23:35:40 !forth VARIABLE a a . cr 23:35:40 139851659782336 23:35:43 ehird, 2>&1 wouldn't help 23:35:44 stdout and stderr, being the C files. 23:35:48 !forth VARIABLE a 2 a ! a . cr 23:35:49 140437233785024 23:35:51 !forth VARIABLE a 2 a ! a @ . cr 23:35:52 2 23:36:03 ehird, no ordering warranty 23:36:05 err 23:36:07 !forth VARIABLE a : get-a a @ ; : set-a a ! ; 2 set-a get-a . cr 23:36:08 2 23:36:12 guarantee* 23:36:21 AnMaster: who cares 23:36:21 (same word in Swedish, easy to mix up 23:36:22 ) 23:36:29 ehird, it won't work then 23:36:31 I just want egobot to dump shit to the channel 23:36:31 as he said 23:36:35 that's i 23:36:36 t 23:36:36 ehird, I don't 23:36:43 I prefer first line in channel only 23:36:45 less spammy 23:36:47 ehird, and 23:36:51 that's a rubbish back-off style 23:37:00 and i'll paste it in anyway 23:37:01 just make your irc client put it in your channel window 23:37:05 since I do things in here to show people, duh 23:37:06 a two line hack 23:37:14 ehird, not everyone do 23:37:27 AnMaster: then they should make the request via /msg 23:37:35 ehird, does that worek 23:37:37 work* 23:37:41 If not, it should. 23:37:42 ehird, and I think you are wrong anyway 23:37:59 i've given good arguments, you haven't. 23:38:02 yes 23:38:04 i presume you'll refuse to give them 23:38:05 I have 23:38:06 see above 23:38:10 o rly? 23:38:12 point them out 23:38:15 ^ 23:38:20 scrollback 23:38:21 individually. 23:38:24 i rebutted them. 23:38:33 I prefer first line in channel only 23:38:33 less spammy 23:38:35 just make your irc client put it in your channel window 23:38:37 a two line hack 23:38:40 AnMaster: yes, but, 23:38:49 the line in channel only, less spammy: If you want it public you'll paste it anyway 23:38:52 If you don't use /msg 23:39:00 ehird, you could have made your client put it in this channel virtually locally 23:39:07 i'd still have to paste it 23:39:09 for everyone else 23:39:10 in less time than this discussion 23:40:07 !c puts("hi!"); 23:40:09 hi! 23:40:16 !c puts("\®QUIT"); 23:40:17 /tmp/source.19948.c:7:6: warning: unknown escape sequence: '302' 23:40:19 !c puts("\rQUIT"); 23:40:19 !help 23:40:20 Supported commands: bf_txtgen help info 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf16 bf32 bf8 c cxx dimensifuck forth glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql sh test trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl 23:40:27 Wow. 23:40:27 !c puts("\nQUIT"); 23:40:29 GregorR: so are you gonna make it print to the channel or not :P 23:40:37 ehird, I guess not 23:40:42 just live with it 23:40:45 No, you WANT not. 23:40:46 !c puts("one\ntwo"); 23:40:47 one 23:40:49 That is not the same thing. Do not speak for GregorR. 23:40:58 !c puts("one\ntwo") 23:40:59 one 23:41:08 !c puts(puts) 23:41:09 /tmp/source.20145.c: In function 'main': 23:41:13 ehird, well he did the Right Thing for asm before 23:41:18 so I trust him to do that now too 23:41:19 What a descriptive error message. 23:41:26 kerlo, see more in /msg 23:41:37 Hey, a UI you have to explain to each and every new user because it's so shit. 23:41:40 That's so the Right Thing. 23:41:45 ehird, no 23:41:52 because their clients are shit 23:41:58 mine show what happened clearly 23:42:07 Hear that everyone? If you don't use ERC, your client sucks. 23:42:15 ehird, xchat did too 23:42:17 when I tried 23:42:19 so fail 23:42:31 !c puts((int)puts) 23:42:32 /tmp/source.20187.c: In function 'main': 23:42:33 Thus we prove that only the two clients that AnMaster likes are acceptable. 23:42:39 no 23:42:42 I'm sure there are more 23:43:11 kerlo, puts is a macro 23:43:12 duh 23:43:20 !c puts((int)fputs) 23:43:21 /tmp/source.20230.c: In function 'main': 23:43:34 It appears to be a function. 23:43:36 cast from integer to pointer 23:43:57 !c printf("%d\n", (int)fputs); 23:43:58 /tmp/source.20280.c: In function 'main': 23:44:10 4195360 23:44:24 !c printf("%d\n", (int)puts); 23:44:25 /tmp/source.20320.c: In function 'main': 23:44:31 !c printf("%d", (long int) puts) 23:44:33 AnMaster: He did no Right Thing for asm, he just used GAS, probably just because he had it installed already. 23:44:33 4195344 23:44:36 okay 23:44:37 it is 23:44:50 Deewiant, no, he said he liked it 23:44:51 duh 23:44:56 !c printf("%d", (long int) printf) 23:44:57 4195272 23:44:59 !c printf("%d", (long int) printf) 23:45:01 4195272 23:45:05 Deewiant: gawd, just let him exist in his own GregorR-fellating world. 23:45:06 Hmm. 23:45:21 !c 4195272("%d", (long int) printf) 23:45:22 /tmp/source.20459.c: In function 'main': 23:45:26 In any case the Right Thing is more about the fact that GAS's support for Intel syntax is obviously crap :-P 23:45:42 Deewiant, remember he coded a lot for MIPS 23:45:49 which uses AT&T syntax most of the time 23:45:56 or possibly all 23:45:57 !c itfu("%d", (long int) printf) 23:45:58 /tmp/ccX9BYHg.o: In function `main': 23:46:09 iftu 23:46:11 wth is that 23:46:12 Point being that if you're going to use GAS you're stuck with AT&T for all practical purposes. 23:46:16 Nothing. 23:46:27 !c printf(itfu) 23:46:28 /tmp/source.20540.c: In function 'main': 23:46:34 Deewiant, and with nasm you are stuck the other way 23:46:37 your point 23:46:42 I like how I can't follow what the fuck you're all doing. 23:46:45 I think yasm can do both 23:46:49 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 23:46:55 !c (printf)(itfu) 23:46:56 /tmp/source.20582.c: In function 'main': 23:47:04 ehird, just guess 23:47:27 !helop 23:47:29 !help 23:47:29 Supported commands: bf_txtgen help info 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf16 bf32 bf8 c cxx dimensifuck forth glass glypho kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain qbf rail rhotor sadol sceql sh test trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl 23:47:34 GregorR, request for language: shakespear 23:47:58 shakespeare is le shit 23:47:58 http://shakespearelang.sourceforge.net/report/shakespeare/shakespeare.html 23:48:05 ehird, why do you think so 23:48:11 it's not actually interesting 23:48:18 ehird, it's funny 23:48:26 a lot of rubbish things are 23:48:45 The Infamous Hello World Program. 23:48:45 Romeo, a young man with a remarkable patience. 23:48:45 Juliet, a likewise young woman of remarkable grace. 23:48:45 Ophelia, a remarkable woman much in dispute with Hamlet. 23:48:45 Hamlet, the flatterer of Andersen Insulting A/S. 23:48:48 that's funny IMO 23:48:54 especially the last one 23:50:20 -!- oklopol has quit (Success). 23:50:30 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:50:39 !c ((int) printf)(itfu) 23:50:40 /tmp/source.20661.c: In function 'main': 23:51:57 Anyone know how to find out the RPM of my disk? 23:52:43 ehird, um. hdparm 23:52:44 iirc 23:52:54 No such thing 23:53:04 ehird, in hdparm -I 23:53:04 sure 23:53:09 no hdparm(1). 23:53:12 ehird, duh 23:53:15 it is not POSIX 23:53:24 on OS X it would be different 23:53:28 hdparm is for Linux 23:53:31 That's very helpful of you 23:53:33 freebsd use other stuff 23:53:41 os x possibly even other ones 23:53:49 ehird, answer is I don't know for OS X 23:53:54 and you didn't specify OS X 23:54:05 ehird, oh it is HDPARM(8) 23:54:07 not (1) 23:54:26 so /sbin 23:55:15 !c ((int*) printf)(itfu) 23:55:16 /tmp/source.20712.c: In function 'main': 23:55:19 7200rpm apparntly 23:55:22 *apparently 23:55:37 !c ((int*) printf)("%n", 42) 23:55:38 /tmp/source.20754.c: In function 'main': 23:57:32 !c ((int()) printf)("%n", 42) 23:57:32 /tmp/source.20794.c: In function 'main': 23:57:33 18:56 /tmp/source.20794.c:7: error: cast specifies function type 23:57:33 * kerlo frowns 23:57:33 AnMaster: by the way, the annoying resize thing on OS X has one purpose 23:57:33 if you hold down shift to make it minimize slowly, then killall Dock 23:57:33 it stays in its half-warped state 23:57:33 !c ((int()*) printf)("%n", 42) 23:57:33 /tmp/source.20831.c: In function 'main': 23:57:33 and yes, you can interact with it 23:57:36 ehird, err 23:57:53 easter egg 23:57:56 or what 23:57:58 nope 23:57:59 bug 23:58:01 ehird, also screenshot 23:58:17 sure thing 23:58:26 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:58:32 -!- puzzlet has joined. 23:58:39 ehird, screenshot of interacting with it I mean 23:58:46 er how 23:58:50 oh ok 23:58:54 uploading anyway 23:58:56 just screenshot then 23:59:37 http://omploader.org/vMW01NQ