< 1241654416 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw chiqrsx9+ _may_ take a file name. < 1241654523 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't put anything else on the command line *shrugs* < 1241654601 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp chiqrsx9p < 1241654601 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter chiqrsx9p deleted. < 1241654644 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait duh < 1241654666 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp chiqrsx9p perl http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/chiqrsx9+.pl < 1241654667 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter chiqrsx9p installed. < 1241654675 0 :okloduk!n=nnscript@a91-153-122-163.elisa-laajakaista.fi JOIN :#esoteric < 1241654681 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!chiqrsx9p h < 1241654682 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, world! < 1241654687 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is that HQ9+ improved? < 1241654689 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1241654691 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah :) < 1241654695 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!chiqrsx9p c < 1241654695 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c < 1241654703 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!chiqrsx9p i < 1241654703 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deep recursion on subroutine "main::interpret" at /tmp/input.25214 line 56, line 1. < 1241654711 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!chiqrsx9p r < 1241654711 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: addinterp needs to tell when the URL doesn't exist ;D < 1241654711 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1241654722 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!chiqrsx9p s < 1241654722 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1241654727 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!chiqrsx9p x < 1241654744 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF do c, r, and s do? < 1241654775 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :c is cat, r is rot13, s is sort < 1241654829 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!chiqrsx9p hq+r < 1241654829 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, world! < 1241654861 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1241654865 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works fine, although only i see most lines < 1241654888 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks it needs ski < 1241654917 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!chiqrsx9p s++x < 1241654917 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s++x < 1241654924 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1241654929 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!chiqrsx9p s+++ < 1241654929 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s+++ < 1241654940 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait the sort is line based < 1241654954 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not too useful on irc :D < 1241654971 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ski would be against the spirit of it < 1241654989 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ski that can't take s or k as arguments? < 1241654991 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF, 1l_a_mmi REFUSES to output a 0 >_< < 1241655016 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, khq would be valid, but skkh wouldn't. ;) < 1241655641 0 :psygnisfive!n=psygnisf@c-71-196-114-50.hsd1.fl.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1241655776 0 :oklopol!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1241655983 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I made a "language" called 1l_butnot to help me write 1l_a code :P < 1241656001 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 1D, but has only >, <, [] and {} ({} is a loop-while-0) < 1241656015 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1241656020 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I need to restrict it a bit more though, because I'm ending up having to add in a bunch of weird code to make it do what I want :P < 1241656028 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um no + or - ? < 1241656030 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1241656066 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: See 1l_a < 1241656069 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :< is < and flip < 1241656073 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1241656084 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Oh, and it's bitwise :P ) < 1241656704 0 :okloduk!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1241659721 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1241659767 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1241659973 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whoot, I have 1l_a outputting 010 :P < 1241659977 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(The bits) < 1241661550 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BLEH < 1241661562 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION is meticulously and by-hand converting his 1l_butnot code into 1l_a :P < 1241661615 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :handmade computing < 1241661680 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YAY, I printed an 'H' in 1l_a 8-D < 1241661790 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(In 1l_a, that's something to be proud of :P ) < 1241661967 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you'll get to the d sometime next week? < 1241662010 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://maps.google.com/maps?f=q&source=s_q&hl=en&geocode=&q=saint-louis-du-ha!+ha!&sll=37.0625,-95.677068&sspn=37.735377,54.316406&ie=UTF8&t=h&z=11&iwloc=A < 1241662056 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maaaaan, Canada gets the funny versions of our cities :( < 1241662097 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1241662102 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do we have? < 1241662235 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see link above < 1241662274 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why is it that when i do a google image search for "laughing frenchman" i get images of horses < 1241662305 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: What did you expect? < 1241662309 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION  < 1241662312 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a picture of a laughing frenchman, surely < 1241662314 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(haw haw haw we Americans hate ze Franch) < 1241662380 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Westward_Ho! < 1241662388 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed! < 1241662473 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You silly pigdog! < 1241662508 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sees inverted Rs < 1241662517 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION does too. < 1241662525 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure why I hit Ctrl-R, anyways. < 1241662531 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :inverted Rs? < 1241662542 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :InvRted. < 1241662548 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where what huh < 1241662561 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : <-- Those -->  < 1241662565 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i see none D: < 1241662576 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive is out of control < 1241662580 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1241662584 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I just see \x0012 < 1241662676 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOLS! < 1241662700 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i will give you some upside down arrrs < 1241662704 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh, i didn't know irssi was that dominant, about half the VERSION responses were from it < 1241662710 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ɹɹɹɹɹɹɹɹʁʁʁʁʁʁʁʁ < 1241662718 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, irssi is awesome. < 1241662819 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um, the capital R's are mirrored as well < 1241662826 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1241662834 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no theyre not < 1241662839 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lower case ones are mirrored < 1241662862 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: in the logs they show as mirrored (also rotated upside down) < 1241662870 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine?? < 1241662872 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the ones i typed? < 1241662873 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1241662880 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theyre upside down < 1241662889 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the upper case ones, not the lower case ones < 1241662893 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which i guess is mirrored along the horizontal axis < 1241662896 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh they're all upside down < 1241662907 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the lowercase r's are vertically and horizontally mirrored < 1241662914 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or put another way, rotated 180 degrees < 1241662916 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes. < 1241662937 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the upper case are only vertically flipped < 1241662940 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1241662942 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*ones < 1241663166 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first is a decent approximation of english r's, the second of parisian and munichian r's < 1241663224 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you mean IPA < 1241663256 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was suddenly wondering if there was something about parisian and munichian ortography i wasn't aware of < 1241663525 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1241664447 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: Which English 'r'? < 1241664461 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh < 1241664466 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :english r in general. < 1241664487 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: American English's schwer isn't the same as the consonant 'r'. < 1241664501 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :consonant r. schwar is a rhotic vowel, not r. < 1241664513 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Schwer is a rhotic vowel spelled 'r' :P < 1241664521 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(With any vowel before that) < 1241664526 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1241664528 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Well, really just 'u' or 'e') < 1241664528 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite the contrary < 1241664541 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :schwar is a very specific vowel < 1241664550 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[@`] < 1241664572 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and is not simply any V+/r/ sequence < 1241664607 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dies ist sehr schwer < 1241664664 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: It's not simply any V+/r/ sequence, but in American English many of them are. (quoth wikipedia:) standard, dinner, Lincolnshire, editor, measure, martyr < 1241664675 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1241664684 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I love that that includes every vowel :P ) < 1241664698 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually those include only one vowel. < 1241664712 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theyre all written with different letters, but thats completely irrelevant. < 1241664720 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. And that vowel is a schwer. < 1241664722 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres only one vowel represented in those words. < 1241664731 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the vowel, underlyingly, is a schwa < 1241664750 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and its the schwa+r sequence, in a single syllable, and not across syllable boundaries, which becomes schwar < 1241664758 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1241664820 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what you're trying to argue, because what I'm trying to argue is that saying that something is pronounced like English 'r' is ambiguous because it could be the consonant 'r' or a schwer, and what you just said seems to agree with that. < 1241664835 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, i didnt. :P < 1241664849 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, or are you saying that you would have said "er" if you meant schwer or something... < 1241664861 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :english r is pronounced lik english r. schwar is not an english r. its a separate sound that results from phonological processes < 1241664913 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it only arrises in place of an underlying /@r\/. its not, in itself, a way of pronouncing /r\/, but rather a way of pronouncing /@r\/ < 1241664976 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This seems like a silly argument :P < 1241664990 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theres no argument :P < 1241666461 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1241668805 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-61-51.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1241669601 0 :WangZeDong!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1241670146 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm starting to un-suspect that 1l_a is T.C. < 1241670167 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that making practical loops may be impossible. < 1241670657 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How (if possible) do you put underscores in the titles of Mediawiki pages? < 1241670847 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-129-241.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1241671793 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BTW, what do people use to edit programs in 2D languages? < 1241671835 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm using oocalc. It works surprisingly well, and can even save without needing any further modifications to get it in the target form if you know how to ask it right, but it's a bit of a PITA because you can't just type, you have to press an arrow after every key. < 1241671846 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't suppose somebody's written an editor? < 1241672016 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been a while, but i think i used vim with the virtualedit option < 1241672108 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that doesn't help with writing in other directions though... < 1241672268 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vaguely recall i may even have tried emacs for it < 1241672396 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oocal... oh < 1241673727 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"virtualedit"? < 1241673747 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, I see. < 1241673751 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that'd help. < 1241673796 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, that's not bad ... I think I prefer oocalc by a liiiiiiiiiiittle bit. < 1241675206 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: i think the emacs thing was called picture mode or something, and did allow for writing in other directions < 1241675878 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, 2d languages < 1241676835 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1241677221 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One other very nice feature of using oocalc is that, since it's a spreadsheet, I can really trivially copy 2D areas. Can presumably do that in emacs too? < 1241677246 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, emacs and vim can dot hat < 1241678085 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1241681002 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1241681612 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1241683199 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1241683200 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1241684062 0 :tombom!i=tombom@82.25.201.54 JOIN :#esoteric < 1241685604 0 :lereah_!n=lereah@nanpc319.in2p3.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1241686040 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awww. http://imgur.com/2eiag.png < 1241686104 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're a kitty! < 1241686131 0 :lereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The number of people dying is determined by the Fermi-Dirac distribution < 1241686134 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that cat have some sort of gun? < 1241688175 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1241690665 0 :WangZeDong!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-58-20.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1241690684 0 :lereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Madre de dios, es el Dong! < 1241691548 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1241692004 0 :kerlo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1241692038 0 :MizardX-!i=MizardX@92.254.128.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1241692142 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1241692149 0 :kerlo!n=ihope@normish.org JOIN :#esoteric < 1241692154 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1241693490 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"YES -> thor-ainor.it <- THIS IS *DELICIOUS*!" < 1241693860 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1241693898 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1241698921 0 :jix!n=jix@77-20-205-106-dynip.superkabel.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1241700847 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Proclamation of invalidity!" < 1241701726 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-027-168.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1241701871 0 :MizardX!n=MizardX@aurorum10-0.aurorum.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1241706769 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1241706769 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1241706769 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :wolfe.freenode.net irc.freenode.net < 1241706774 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1241706774 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1241706774 0 :AnMaster!n=AnMaster@unaffiliated/anmaster JOIN :#esoteric < 1241707031 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1241707211 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1241707355 0 :MigoMipo!i=3e779bfd@gateway/web/ajax/mibbit.com/x-f0ce4549e8fd488f JOIN :#esoteric < 1241708145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: < 1241708147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finally we clash! < 1241708327 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: what did you want me for yesterday/day before? < 1241709359 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1241709365 0 :MigoMipo!unknown@unknown.invalid PART #esoteric :? < 1241709753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh my fucking god < 1241709755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3d realms shut down < 1241709758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Duke Nukem Forever is over < 1241709769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-( < 1241709829 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That reminds me, even though Free Realms looks like junk, I should try it < 1241709961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hahahahah < 1241709964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Poor developers got screwed over. They coded the whole thing in Arc before an implementation was released, then Paul Graham pulled a stunt and released a set of MzScheme macros instead of the auto-vectorizing native code compiler he promised them." —Slava Pestov < 1241710068 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1241710081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: on Duke Nukem Forever in response to 3D Realms shutting down < 1241710093 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1241710414 0 :lereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1241710507 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Peace and Protection 4.22.2" < 1241710682 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1241711098 0 :Slereah!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-47-63.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1241711390 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8ihf5/3d_realms_shuts_down_no_duke_nukem_ever_forever/c09e6or < 1241711393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please let that bullshit be true. < 1241711520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://duke.a-13.net/?080907 < 1241711521 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :> user for 6 hours < 1241711521 0 :Asztal!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1241711532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Things done during the development of duke nukem forever < 1241711536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and bonus: things that took shorter. < 1241711543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Asztal: could have been registered just to post that :p < 1241711552 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, by a real ex-employee, highly doubtful though < 1241711556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I fucking want it to be true < 1241711558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :_<> < 1241711559 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1241711560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1241711561 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Um, that site mentions a twitter user, but doesn't link to it < 1241711562 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WTF < 1241711566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1241711573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure it does < 1241711578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: 'hodapp' is a link, retardo :P < 1241711582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1241711585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it links to twitter.com < 1241711585 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1241711592 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The freaking *Beatles* took less time than Duke. :) < 1241711595 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: just above, though: Updated by Eli Hodapp - http://twitter.com/hodapp - http://a-13.net/ - Last Edit: 5/06/09 < 1241711607 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the beatles weren't especially long lived... < 1241711610 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm, true < 1241711619 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But still, having @hodapp link to twitter.com is braindead < 1241711631 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: the rolling stones have lasted 47 years so far... < 1241711636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: or an honest mistake zomg < 1241711823 0 :WangZeDong!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1241711852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i totally didn't give a shit about dnf until that recent 15-second-or-so gameplay video, that thing just looked amazing < 1241711896 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: True. However, the Beatles had a very innovative and, well, *filled* career. < 1241711904 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine, for something more stunning. < 1241711911 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Project Manhattan* took less time. < 1241711913 0 :puzzlet_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1241711914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yar. < 1241711917 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1241711940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It'd be hard to even get it going elsewhere; nobody would fund it or buy it < 1241711966 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :project manhattan actually needed to get finished first... < 1241711982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Project Manhattan was the name of a duke nukem game < 1241711984 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For extra lulz < 1241711987 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1241711995 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1241711998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he meant the nuclear shit < 1241712001 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it was a duke game too < 1241712004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Duke_Nukem:_Manhattan_Project < 1241712927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://developer.valvesoftware.com/wiki/Valve_Time ← hahaha < 1241713167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION starts the Bailout 3D Realms Party < 1241713211 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but is that the fake rapture or the real one? < 1241713211 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cackles evilly < 1241713216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1241713448 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^ul ((B)S:^):^ < 1241713448 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBBB ...too much output! < 1241713884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl, dumb redditors responding to me with the same tired, broken anti-piracy arguments < 1241713897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i replied to one and was going to bother with the others but then I realised I don't give a shit <:) < 1241714237 0 :ais523!n=ais523@147.188.254.117 JOIN :#esoteric < 1241714378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://blog.interop.com/blog/2009/05/06/the-father-of-the-crc-passes-away/ < 1241714381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1241714518 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1241714526 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, for ages my keyboard wasn't working for anything but MouseKeys < 1241714533 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's started working again, it seems < 1241714781 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION starts W:A in VM. Let's see if I can't pass grenade training this time. < 1241714842 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<3 Worms < 1241714913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, only got the first one. As usual. < 1241714918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: indeed, 'tis the awesome < 1241714932 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, we agree on something? *gasp* < 1241714937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1241715041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: do you disagree with AnMaster on anything? < 1241715067 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't remember ever agreeing or disagreeing with AnMaster on anything < 1241715114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's funny, W:A in this 512MB-of-RAM VM running a full virtualized Windows is as fast as on my real pc < 1241715289 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ugh, I don't know if I should go to school today < 1241715314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why not < 1241715328 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the one hand, the only thing that the class is today is finding out if I passed or failed, which I may or may not be able to find out via email < 1241715342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other? < 1241715344 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the other hand, there are girls at the pizza place on the way home that I might not see again < 1241715358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1241715375 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1241715388 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi AnMaster < 1241715390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help < 1241715390 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supported commands: addinterp bf_txtgen daemons delinterp fyb fyb.orig help info kill userinterps 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch befunge befunge98 bf bf16 bf32 bf8 bfbignum c chiqrsx9p cintercal clcintercal cxx dimensifuck echo forth glass glypho hello kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor rot13 sadol sceql sh slashes test trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl yodawg < 1241715408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!chiqrsx9p H < 1241715408 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, world! < 1241715415 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why do EgoBot commands not tab-complete? < 1241715417 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be really useful... < 1241715422 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^:D < 1241715423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, make your client do it < 1241715427 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oops < 1241715504 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!chiqrsx9p xgibberish < 1241715512 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww < 1241715568 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1241715572 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1241715597 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the x command is a _tiny_ bit hard to use, i fear < 1241715603 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION cackles evilly < 1241715608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't even make it TC < 1241715610 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, 1 in 256 of the time it's trivially easy < 1241715617 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm true < 1241715626 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could rerun it until it worked < 1241715663 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!chiqrsx9p 9 < 1241715663 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :99 bottles of beer on the wall, < 1241715667 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh dear < 1241715674 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aww, it messages me the rest < 1241715683 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead of being an evil menace to the channel < 1241715696 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blame GregorR < 1241715709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should just do like lambdabot < 1241715715 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do the first few lines, then require a command to do more < 1241715717 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ok, it's going a bit slowly < 1241715720 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus if it floods it's your fault :) < 1241715752 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: It does exponential backoff, and only sends 8 messages. There is no way to get the full output. < 1241715754 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :99 bottles of beer * 2 seconds / bottle = over 3 minutes of spam via PRIVMSG < 1241715777 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's slower than 2sec/bottle < 1241715779 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Much slower < 1241715805 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Meh, 2 seconds / line is the acceptable rate < 1241715819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forgot how amazing worms' music is < 1241715823 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Sgeo: It does exponential backoff, and only sends 8 messages. There is no way to get the full output. < 1241715846 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It sent 5 messages, including the one to the channel < 1241715856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just wait < 1241715860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it'll send a few more < 1241715862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very slowly :P < 1241715891 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nowait, I'm sorry, five messages, the last one is /eight/ seconds. < 1241715901 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Got my numbers weirded) < 1241715903 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1241715918 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Your "acceptable" rate of drinking is 2 seconds / bottle? Rather hard-core. < 1241715923 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1241715944 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Any slower and you're a cop-out. < 1241715945 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To be pedantic, I did not claim 2 seconds / bottle was acceptable < 1241715951 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But sure, why not. < 1241715992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually i'm not sure it counts as music, more ambience < 1241716006 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!chiqrsx9p xprint "Hi!"; < 1241716022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uh oh < 1241716022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!chiqrsx9p xprint "Hi!"; < 1241716023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!chiqrsx9p xprint "Hi!"; < 1241716024 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AmbiAnce. < 1241716025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!chiqrsx9p xprint "Hi!"; < 1241716027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!chiqrsx9p xprint "Hi!"; < 1241716029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!chiqrsx9p xprint "Hi!"; < 1241716031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!chiqrsx9p xprint "Hi!"; < 1241716034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by the birthday paradox, how many times do we have to do this> < 1241716035 0 :Hiato!n=1@dsl-245-41-227.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1241716035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1241716035 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Yes, very helpful of you. < 1241716042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: yw < 1241716048 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :birthday paradox doesn't apply < 1241716059 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i say about 128 < 1241716059 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah, it's not birthday < 1241716078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, oerjan, multiplying by 0.5 gives the expectation, which isn't what's wanted here < 1241716090 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the median number of times, you have to multiply by approximately ln 2 < 1241716097 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1241716101 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION swats ais523 -----### < 1241716108 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch! < 1241716138 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"-----###" looks more like a mace than a fly-swatter to me. < 1241716144 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a mace is a mean thing to swat somebody with. < 1241716154 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been rebuilt < 1241716198 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D&D style alignment system for nomics: Silly/Serious Lenient/Pedantic < 1241716211 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: ooh < 1241716225 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Does "Silly/Pedantic" make sense? < 1241716241 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: yes, I've seen such nomics in the past < 1241716259 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I've generated 35 potential 26-letter pangrams, but they all include either "VFW" or "WV" >_<) < 1241716270 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so is agora still at Serious/Pedantic? < 1241716278 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: yes < 1241716281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agora's serious/pedantic-with-handwaving < 1241716286 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, it may be in a B-style crisis atm < 1241716289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is almost unprecedented < 1241716293 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :serious neutral :D < 1241716297 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if it is a genuine crisis, ratification wouldn't have worked < 1241716303 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION assumed that Sgeo was referring to participants, not the nomics themselves. < 1241716319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same thing < 1241716346 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: i'd suggest doing the rarest letters first, since that gives fewest options < 1241716346 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The participants can span the board and just sort of "average out" to something. < 1241716358 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(presumably) < 1241716370 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: A friend of mine suggested that, but I had already been running this for days, so now he's running that :P < 1241716371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: the latest herald's report mentions that you're behind insane proposals < 1241716373 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :will you marry me? < 1241716376 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, were behind < 1241716404 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes indead < 1241716410 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in dead? < 1241716417 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*indeed < 1241716426 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a silly proposal < 1241716441 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :insane proposals still exist? < 1241716457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1241716460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should do though < 1241716460 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1241716466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: did the map exist in your time? < 1241716471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :town fountain? < 1241716494 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am not quite sure < 1241716513 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there may have been a game something map-based < 1241716527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: http://agora.qoid.us/current_flr.txt; first rule is the map < 1241716540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's not much of a rule, having no effect < 1241716640 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that same silly week i also voted by phone < 1241716652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: how silly < 1241716695 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alas, i only hit steve's answering machine < 1241716748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i only know steve from the spam scam < 1241716805 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1241716831 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that map is definitely from after my time < 1241716857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't actually know when you left :P < 1241716922 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spam scam? < 1241716927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1241716943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :H. Distributor Steve gets a spam email to the lists. He edits it to include a without-objection rule amendment < 1241716946 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and lets it go on to the lists < 1241716954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everybody's spam filters ignore it < 1241716956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He ratifies it < 1241716958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :profit < 1241717013 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somewhere around 2002 < 1241717091 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hah < 1241717094 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's brillant < 1241717105 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: I didn't know you were a nomic fan < 1241717107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Yeah, it is a bit of an abuse of office though < 1241717112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: does he have to be to appreciate that? < 1241717116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1241717129 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not knowing X does not necessarily imply that X is true, though < 1241717147 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never nomic'd because I think the whole thing is a waste of time, but that doesn't mean I don't enjoy them :P < 1241717163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: dude you operate a site about choosing what hat you will wear < 1241717176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and use a neural net to match colours < 1241717178 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WARNING. WARNING. ABOVE STATEMENT WAS SARCASM < 1241717182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1241717182 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1241717204 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I /still/ want to find a group of people to play my card-game Nomic. < 1241717209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION kills two worms in his first two turns by (1) fire punch (2) baseball bat into the sea. Yay. < 1241717216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: make it playable online and you're on :-P < 1241717236 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely advertises ##nomic < 1241717238 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That would sort of kill it, as any change to the rules that deviates too much would require a rewrite of the engine >_> < 1241717245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely disadvertises ##nomic < 1241717248 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which has been really active recently despite ehird's attempts < 1241717249 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that's why I set the Agora filters to not let emails from there go into spam < 1241717258 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguely vagueomits all over ##nomic < 1241717269 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION vaguegasms < 1241717294 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why does ehird hate ##nomic ? < 1241717300 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not because I'm there, I hope < 1241717303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :long story < 1241717304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1241717311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one which is not on topic for #esoteric < 1241717318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case ais523 wants to but in with his own version of events ;-) < 1241717321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyhoo < 1241717330 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is indeed offtopic < 1241717330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION thinks of an esolang based on Worms. < 1241717339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be quite hard to program in, I imagine < 1241717371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have worms which when you hit them with weapon X output a certain character, etc < 1241717696 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION turns evil < 1241717727 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1241717982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION ponders writing an SQL database engine in befunge < 1241718022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you know any reason a background animation in an old game should speed up because you move your mouse? < 1241718033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to figure out how you do animation that leaves that oddity... < 1241718041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, I'm aware of the general principle < 1241718045 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe they're doing it every event? < 1241718052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and setting a timer to trigger the event every N < 1241718052 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all sorts of things speed up if you move your mouse < 1241718056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but your mouse moving triggers it < 1241718056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, it's generally based on event loops < 1241718073 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also to do with borken implementations of slowing down idle programs in a multitasking environment < 1241718083 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you move your mouse -> the program isn't idle -> it isn't slowed < 1241718084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there should be a bit of hardware that just gives an event to the OS as fast as possible, evidently < 1241718163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using SOCK to allow client(s) to connect.. hm < 1241718353 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1241718788 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are now two programs written in 1L_a < 1241718791 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A, and H! < 1241718841 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, for a Boolfuck interpreter! < 1241719090 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: http://bayimg.com/image/mapojaabh.jpg < 1241719111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood++ < 1241719145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1241719180 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intel's phasing out the i7 940 < 1241719185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh? < 1241719186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why? < 1241719190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nuthin' wrong with it. < 1241719197 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not Intel, don't ask me. < 1241719204 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.tgdaily.com/html_tmp/content-view-42332-135.html < 1241719208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well fuck Intel :-P < 1241719214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 940 is a nice balance. < 1241719245 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's weird < 1241719248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1241719249 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!boolfuck ;;;+;+;;+;+;+;+;+;+;;+;;+;;;+;;+;+;;+;;;+;;+;+;;+;+;;;;+;+;;+;;;+;;+;+;+;;;;;;;+;+;;+;;;+;+;;;+;+;;;;+;+;;+;;+;+;;+;;;+;;;+;;+;+;;+;;;+;+;;+;;+;+;+;;;;+;+;;;+;+;+; < 1241719250 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hello, world! < 1241719250 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :doesn't matter though < 1241719253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have one, you have one < 1241719259 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: do you use ecc memory btw? < 1241719265 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the i7 doesn't support it which is weird < 1241719274 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I don't < 1241719291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yar < 1241719294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't really seem worth it < 1241719319 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not for desktops, at least < 1241719325 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 bit per gigabyte per month < 1241719332 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems like it could fuck a lot of shit < 1241719334 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what exactly does static mean in the context of C++... < 1241719341 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems overloaded < 1241719341 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: wut? < 1241719352 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's overloaded even in C < 1241719358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, yes, but not as much < 1241719365 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: they say that non-ecc has 1 bit error per gigabyte per month < 1241719369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1241719379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's funny, my computer isn't crashing randomly due to bits being misplaced. < 1241719384 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's even more overloaded in D < 1241719384 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure that's not marketing talk from the ecc people :) < 1241719389 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a random misplaced bit generally has no effect anyway < 1241719391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, err... static == local to file in C? Can be used for functions and variables. < 1241719416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hm. why> < 1241719417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1241719418 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, at global scope. At function scope, it means that a variable is global but visible only from there. < 1241719426 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: uh....yes it does < 1241719431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : that's funny, my computer isn't crashing randomly due to bits being misplaced. <-- a lot of the time it will be in currently unused memory I suspect. < 1241719436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1241719438 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's in an image or something, sure < 1241719439 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: because of all the bits that might flip in memory, only a small proportion of them generally have an effect on control flow < 1241719447 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if it's in an executable < 1241719449 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many will be unused, or in an image or text < 1241719451 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah right true, don't use that a lot so didn't think of that. < 1241719452 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or loop counters in delays < 1241719454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1241719457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1241719460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely it can't be such a problem < 1241719463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if they sell non-ecc memory < 1241719464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbh, even a random bitflip in an executable will be unlikely to do anything worse than making it crash < 1241719465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and people are fine with it < 1241719478 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and crashing isn't a big deal? < 1241719487 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In D, we have: static variables, static constructors/destructors, static assert, static if, static import < 1241719489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: i've never used ecc memory and I've never had a problem at all < 1241719496 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ditto. < 1241719496 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1241719498 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: much less than once per month, most likely on a program that crashes more often than that for other reasons? < 1241719500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the problems may be greatly exaggerated < 1241719511 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: what OS do you run? < 1241719512 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And stuff crashes more than once per month for me anyway. < 1241719514 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you must be running the wrong programs < 1241719515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it slows down ram access a tiny bit :P < 1241719516 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: linux < 1241719528 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If I get an additional crash due to not using ECC memory, I really won't notice. < 1241719535 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: 2% is the usual figure IIRC. < 1241719547 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: write a program to md5sum 1 gb of randomly initialized memory and put it at nice 19 for a month < 1241719557 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: I write lots of programs, they crash all the time until I get them working properly < 1241719558 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: i don't do that shit :P < 1241719560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, Any reason you can't introduce new keywords instead? < 1241719563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, seriously < 1241719578 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Walter doesn't like doing that. < 1241719581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is ECC memory really needed < 1241719589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't think of one corruption I've had of memory < 1241719589 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ever < 1241719590 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I understand that doing it too much is bad, but I think static is too overloaded :-P < 1241719592 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, the vast majority of memory used by an executable is in large malloced objects < 1241719606 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and bitflips there are unlikely to be particularly disastrous < 1241719613 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably just cause one particular result to go haywire < 1241719618 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or a segfault, if it hits a pointer < 1241719635 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that sounds pretty bad to me < 1241719641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH that's never ever ever ever EVER happened to me < 1241719650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i'll bet it's never happened to most other people < 1241719655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it does, then non-ecc memory is a sham < 1241719672 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8i77h/do_you_use_ecc_dram_why/ < 1241719674 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: what proportion of your memory do you normally use? < 1241719681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: that's where I got my question from < 1241719688 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this sort of thing would probably happen about once a decade < 1241719689 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I figured. < 1241719692 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, sure yes, you can run into issues with user named identifiers in some cases. But in most that interpretation doesn't make sense < 1241719692 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on average < 1241719702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand I guess that makes the grammar even harder to parse... < 1241719723 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: can you buy superfast ram with ecc, even? < 1241719732 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Superfast"? < 1241719734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine not < 1241719745 0 :tombom!i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1241719748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: as in "excessive like that ddr ssd" sort of fast :-) < 1241719754 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably not. < 1241719782 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if xeon has any DISadvantages vs i7 < 1241719784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, with enough money I bet you could develop such a thing < 1241719802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1241720007 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://www.ramsan.com/products/ramsan-400.htm < 1241720022 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.ramsan.com/products/ramsan-440.htm < 1241720024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :40 better bitch < 1241720028 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok be back later < 1241720030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also that's not RAM :-P < 1241720289 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it is RamSan :P < 1241720469 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1241720675 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"getting dinner, I'll be back later" < 1241721612 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bleh, Boolfuck is little-endian. < 1241721624 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is there a *fuck that's JUST bitwise brainfuck? < 1241721654 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is, the only change is removing - and + switches bits? Not little-endian like Boolfuck, not combining more operators like Bitchanger? < 1241721669 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It should take about 2 minutes to whip up Bitfuck :-P < 1241721694 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, but I was hoping for one that already existed and already had a trivial translation from BF so I wouldn't have to do that first :P < 1241721696 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.e. no, I don't know of one, but feel free to make one < 1241721721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, little endian how < 1241721732 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It does the bits backwards. It's bit-wise little-endian. < 1241721736 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Which makes no kind of sense X_X < 1241721742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, you mean for I/O? < 1241721745 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1241721758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, big endian makes just as much sense. < 1241721797 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When was the last time you wrote a binary number in little-endian order :P < 1241721834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, well, bit-endianness usually isn't visible on most platforms. But for bytes... hm... half a month ago I think. < 1241721837 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe three weeks. < 1241721869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was when messing with inline asm and SSE. < 1241721892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, your point? < 1241721912 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, how about I go from this angle instead: 1L_a uses "big-endian" bitwise reads/writes, so writing a Boolfuck interpreter in it would suck because I'd have to buffer. < 1241721928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't even know what 1L_a is < 1241721933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :link to it? < 1241721942 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/1L_a < 1241721947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1241721989 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to prove that it's T.C., although I'm not yet convinced that it is :P < 1241722348 0 :M0ny!n=Harmony@AToulouse-258-1-136-138.w86-217.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1241722621 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"I'll be back in a few minutes. I have to change location..." < 1241722698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION listens to Graue's noise to attempt to come to esozen < 1241722762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like this. I don't think I'm supposed to. < 1241722892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, err... what is "esozen" < 1241722898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The zen of eso. < 1241722902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1241722914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://oceanbase.org/data/files/music/Scrap%20Heap%20-%20Live%20at%20Electric%20Possible,%20Feb.%202009.mp3 < 1241722919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :somehow I read it as "reason" on the first pass. I have no idea how that happened. < 1241722920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :recorded quietly, he sez. < 1241722928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, esozen is the exact opposite of reason < 1241722933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1241722937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it stands to esozen that it should be very similar in appearance < 1241722942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who is Graue btw < 1241722954 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: creator and curator of esolangs.org < 1241722961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka catatonic purpoise < 1241722972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1241722982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do I dare listen to it? < 1241722992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not actively hostile, it just doesn't have melody. < 1241722997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's quite soothing < 1241723001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, white noise? < 1241723004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1241723023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly a bit of bashing some stuff and a little not-that-whiney feedback. < 1241723027 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm tired of pattern matching in python and trying to write esotope-bfc in ocaml again, aww. < 1241723033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: HASKELL. < 1241723048 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that'd be a option too. < 1241723061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bah, but I want to write mine in haskell :P < 1241723068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I only hear a few clicks? < 1241723078 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Turn the sound up (it's recorded quiet) and wait. < 1241723087 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I promise you it doesn't suddenly turn into white noise :P < 1241723098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or suddenly turn into high volume? < 1241723102 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least i have written some more codes in ocaml than haskell, so... :p < 1241723103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :promise. < 1241723107 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wgets and imports into audio editor just in case < 1241723123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i have better things to do than find noisy music that turns int o white noise just for you AnMaster :P < 1241723124 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 MB heh < 1241723135 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway they both are not familiar to me, i indeed have to learn functional languages seriously. < 1241723142 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Prolog! < 1241723149 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Awwww!!!! < 1241723153 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1241723188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, doesn't need to be white noise to break eardrums. I have headphones so I'd prefer to be extra careful. I do want to be able to hear anything tomorrow too. < 1241723194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1241723202 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :goddamn, it's not loud, honestly < 1241723216 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm ok. How long is it < 1241723223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 5-7 minutes? < 1241723227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1241723234 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i also have used prolog (not free software environment, btw) but i felt uncomfortable whenever i use it. < 1241723238 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@92.254.128.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1241723240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolog kind of sucks < 1241723243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :imo < 1241723248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what i want is haskell+prolog syntax < 1241723255 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it sucks in a brilliant way? < 1241723256 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it was quite slow. < 1241723258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1241723280 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like a heck. < 1241723305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, talking about slowness. Link to your optimising compiler? < 1241723313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume it is even better now < 1241723325 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://code.google.com/p/esotope-bfc/ < 1241723342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, how good is it at lostkingdom now < 1241723381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, audacity says 15 minutes.. < 1241723395 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was guesstimating. < 1241723427 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i was fixing some bugs and considering several corner cases so far. the main optimizer didn't see much progress. < 1241723468 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the other hand i'm planning array optimization, but i'm not decided how to do yet. < 1241723480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION gains esolightenment < 1241723523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I listened to it for a bit. Not my type of, mu^Wno^Wperformance. < 1241723533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never claimed it was < 1241723538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're the one who brought it up :P < 1241723539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, interesting though < 1241723549 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Graue has like 10 releases of that kind of stuff < 1241723580 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff. Good word for it. < 1241723634 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, you could remove those stores to cells right < 1241723638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since they aren't used. < 1241723643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1241723651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, plan to implement that? < 1241723653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: use fputs < 1241723655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not printf < 1241723657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case someone outputs %s < 1241723659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also a bit faster < 1241723659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that too < 1241723659 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what do you mean? < 1241723662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(not puts, it gives a newline) < 1241723677 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well you're right. of course i escaped % properly ;) < 1241723682 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and of course* < 1241723683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :printf is slower! :-( < 1241723688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: in < 1241723689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : p[1] = 0; < 1241723690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : p[0] = 100; < 1241723692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : p[3] = 0; < 1241723694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : p[2] = 33; < 1241723696 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : p[5] = 0; < 1241723698 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You'd think puts(x) and fputs(x, stdout) are equivalent but no < 1241723698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : p[4] = 87; < 1241723700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : printf("Hello World!"); < 1241723702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, well you could just turn it into fputs("Hello World!"); and drop those assignments before < 1241723702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need to write to p < 1241723704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since they're never read < 1241723706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trivial optimization < 1241723706 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since they aren't used. < 1241723708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: yeah it pisses me off < 1241723710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fputs("Hello World!")? < 1241723712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol wat < 1241723714 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ah, dead code. okay. < 1241723718 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: GCC is quite clever enough to figure those out? < 1241723727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: GCC can figure a lot of shit out < 1241723733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But clang also does array→variable conversion < 1241723734 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming the resulting C code is put through an optimizing compiler I wouldn't bother < 1241723736 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So relying on just gcc is silly < 1241723737 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i also plans to do so but i think global optimizer is needed to do it efficiently < 1241723739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, might as well be sure,. < 1241723758 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :another thing... < 1241723760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unsigned char m[30000], *p = m; < 1241723761 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: My point being that any decent compiler should be able to see that it's not used. < 1241723763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should be static < 1241723770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: not worth relying on < 1241723774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's trivial to remove anyway < 1241723779 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not necessarily, if it is trivial < 1241723782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, allows optimiser to see it won't be used outside the single file < 1241723785 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But if it isn't, I wouldn't bother. < 1241723794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't know that it is only one file yet. The linker does. < 1241723809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course you can tell the compiler that < 1241723829 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that is ad-hoc too, i really have to analyze how many cells are used. < 1241723832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but usually that involves finding whatever switch the compiler use. < 1241723842 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example, static unsigned char m[5], *p = m;... etc. < 1241723843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, not decidable in the general case. < 1241723856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor are most optimizations < 1241723861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: are you gonna make an auto-growing tape? < 1241723866 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: someday. < 1241723870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e.g. let ,[a thousand >s] work < 1241723887 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: at least you know optimized hello world program won't use any memory cells. < 1241723902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, yes. It will work for trivial programs < 1241723927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact it will work for any "balanced loops only"-program < 1241724018 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and possibly for some with unbalanced ones (for example, you could potentially know what cell is set in this program: >>>,<<<[>].) < 1241724072 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case you optimise [>] into a memchr() or similar anyway. < 1241724302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I lie -- it does get really loud all of a sudden at one point. < 1241724306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The applause at the end :P < 1241724324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, applause from people or from GM? < 1241724331 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or possibly GM2) < 1241724340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :define:GM < 1241724347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the former < 1241724363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1241724369 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GM = General Midi < 1241724370 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: there are many cases such as [>>>>] (memory operation independent to p[0] here) [<<<<] in lostkng; my current concern is how to optimize them, as it is effectively an array operation. < 1241724406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I don't remember instrument number, but GM and/or GM2 contains applause. < 1241724415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1241724428 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i can optimize [>] into memchr(), but i cannot [>>] or [<]. nor i think using memchr is important optimization. < 1241724449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[>>] is very common for th 1 elem 1 elem 1 elem 0 structur < 1241724450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1241724451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the < 1241724471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: you can optimize [>>] to < 1241724483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for (;*p; p+=2) < 1241724485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :; < 1241724487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I assume you do < 1241724493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the +=2 bit < 1241724499 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it really does so now. < 1241724504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1241724510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1241724530 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well of course we can use similare techniques used in memchr to [>>] or [>>>>]; but that's another story. < 1241724531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, you can do -=n for [<] [<<] and so on < 1241724545 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, it already does so. < 1241724560 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :example in lostkng output: while (p[43] != 0) p -= 2; < 1241724562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, anyway memchr is _probably_ better than for (;*p; p++) < 1241724608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: you mean the (int*) way of reading shit? < 1241724615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that sort of stuff < 1241724620 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's what memchr does < 1241724635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since glibc memchr() is insanely optimised. Like strlen(), memchr() is made to search of bytes at once. < 1241724639 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes. or using SIMD instructions. < 1241724641 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is common in many libc() < 1241724644 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, oh that too? < 1241724647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1241724658 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: SIMD instructions are good for some thousand bytes... iirc. < 1241724676 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some thousand bytes and more* < 1241724681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, err? < 1241724690 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: not on an x86 < 1241724719 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: am i wrong? my knowledge on x86 is quite limited. :S < 1241724720 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh I guess AltiVec might. < 1241724734 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :memchr just reads using using (unsigned long*) < 1241724738 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In glibc, that is. < 1241724749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, SSE operands and registers are 128 bits wide. < 1241724764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure you can do byte searching with it < 1241724776 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you can < 1241724784 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :memcpy() and such definitely can use SSE to copy fast. < 1241724794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, really? which SSE instructions would you use for it. < 1241724859 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't remember exactly < 1241724929 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i think theres a compared packed bytes -> mask instruction < 1241724948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, which SSE version? < 1241724966 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't know < 1241725005 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't find anything like it in the AMD64 reference docs. < 1241725015 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PCMPEQB, Compare packed bytes in mm/m64 and mm for equality. < 1241725023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1241725147 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: as far as i know libc memchr() does similar thing, xoring current dword with (byte * 0x1010101) and find null byte in it. < 1241725152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm that could work. But testing if you hit any match would not be that trivial. Control flow + SSE doesn't match well. < 1241725180 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, err 0x1010101... don't you mean 0x101010101010101 < 1241725184 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1241725194 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that'd be qword. :p < 1241725213 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, well actually it would be a machine sized word on my computer. < 1241725242 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i think that's a very reason that SIMD-based memchr is slower than original memchr for smaller cases. < 1241725248 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: load one register full of the byte you are looking for, the other with a portion of the string, then xorps, then use the bytes -> bitmask operation, then ffs < 1241725261 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SIMD initialization is too costy. < 1241725281 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :costly* < 1241725282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, yes indeed it is < 1241725285 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :compare 16 bytes in 4 instructions < 1241725288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, "ffs"? < 1241725296 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: find-first-set < 1241725300 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: cf ffs(3) < 1241725329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, you need to store the result to temporary memory then < 1241725352 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik you can't easily find first set on an sse register directly < 1241725366 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, sse4.2 has PCMPESTRI < 1241725382 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, since my computer only has SSE3 that feels completely irrelevant to me :P < 1241725393 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what has sse4.2? < 1241725398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :newer ones I guess. < 1241725414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1241725417 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think nehalem < 1241725422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1241725423 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nehalem only, currently < 1241725431 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: "Packed Compare Explicit Length Strings, Return Index"? does it work like repe/repne prefix? < 1241725435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MORE REASON WHY THE i7s/XEONS ARE TOTALLY AWESOME <_< < 1241725440 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yay! < 1241725456 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SSE4.2 has a CRC32 opcode, that's also pretty funky. < 1241725459 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: with your new machine you can write hyper efficient code that nobody else can run! woohoo :-) < 1241725464 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1241725465 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: no idea, i have 0 assembly knowledge < 1241725469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um. What about ABM < 1241725472 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: fuck yes < 1241725482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ABM= < 1241725488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, -mabm < 1241725489 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The newer Core 2s have SSE 4.1, the older ones have SSSE3, AMD's still at SSE3 < 1241725495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: What's that do < 1241725497 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well i thought you know it more than me < 1241725505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it's like SSE5 or something iirc < 1241725513 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :forgot if it was Intel or AMD < 1241725517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :INTEL FUCKS AMD SUCKS. I can't think of anything better to rhyme with sucks < 1241725518 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: I will sell you 1 assembly knowledge for 1 proof of 1L_a-Turing-completeness. < 1241725525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, actually I think ABM was intel < 1241725530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and SSE5 was AMD < 1241725531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: STOP SELLING NON-SCARCE ASSETS BITCH < 1241725533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless I misremember < 1241725535 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I was talking to Deewiant :-P < 1241725543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:44 Deewiant: The newer Core 2s have SSE 4.1, the older ones have SSSE3, AMD's still at SSE3 < 1241725550 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SSE5 is AMD's and due in 2011 < 1241725556 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: hah! < 1241725559 0 :puzzlet!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1241725560 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AVX is Intel's and due in 2010 < 1241725563 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i think i remember seeing an ffs instruction on sse registers < 1241725564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha, BUT < 1241725567 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :amd are adopting avx < 1241725569 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, what about *ABM* < 1241725570 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: perhaps even find-first-byte-set < 1241725575 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Doesn't ring a bell. < 1241725578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore avx is better qed < 1241725588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, it is mentioned in man gcc for the -msse* section < 1241725592 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc 4.3 < 1241725599 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AMD are incorporating parts of AVX, to be exact. < 1241725604 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yeah, sse4a has lzcnt < 1241725612 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intel may or may not incorporate parts of SSE5. < 1241725620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, well that is irrelevant to me too. < 1241725639 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's not my fault you have an archaic proc < 1241725650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, um. archaic is way older < 1241725658 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is just "not last edition" < 1241725678 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: dude, you use a P4 < 1241725684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless your computer arrived already :P < 1241725714 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: newegg is slow, my order is "processing", whatever that means < 1241725735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Here is how it is defined: archaic = PDP/11, very old = pentium3, old = pentium 4, early 64-bit sempron = not state-of-art but still rather new < 1241725736 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It means they're using your computer. < 1241725743 0 :Hiato!n=1@dsl-245-41-227.telkomadsl.co.za JOIN :#esoteric < 1241725745 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Hey, it's processing." < 1241725753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1241725757 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey all < 1241725765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1241725802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1241725839 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the best primality test? Bu that I mean which uses the least/lowest complexity time for the best probability? < 1241725852 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your early 64-bit Sempron is slower than some Pentium 4s. < 1241725861 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hiato: it depends if you want deterministic or nondeterministic < 1241725954 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, "This pass is likely to change, since it depends on ad-hoc analysis currently. SSA-based optimizer is planned, but not yet implemented."? < 1241725960 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: well, at this point, its pretty immaterial. I was looking at AKS, but I can't find a good implementation. The number I want to test is too massive for the standard trial division or elliptic methods < 1241725967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how would you do SSA for bf < 1241725968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PDP11 is more than archaic < 1241725972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P3 is archaic < 1241725974 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...trial division!?!?!?!?! < 1241725978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :P4 is really old < 1241725981 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what do you call PDP11 then < 1241725981 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hiato: see miller-rabin for a start < 1241725988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: an abacus < 1241725990 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MEGACHAIC < 1241725991 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: mainly for constant & copy propagation and dead code elimination. < 1241725994 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: What do you call an abacus < 1241725996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is technically incorrect. < 1241726005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: A collection of atoms < 1241726008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah what Deewiant said < 1241726012 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :current optimizer doesn't do any optimization across basic blocks < 1241726012 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1241726015 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but an abacus can sort in constant time! < 1241726024 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For constant input sizes < 1241726027 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what do you call a collection of atoms. < 1241726027 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: well, bead sorting? :p < 1241726046 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1241726046 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, well, the thing is I just wanna plug (3^797161-1)/2 into something and see what I get < 1241726048 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!fyb < 1241726048 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Use: !fyb < 1241726055 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^^^ ADVERTISEMENT < 1241726071 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help fyb < 1241726071 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I have no help for fyb! < 1241726081 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!help befunge98 < 1241726081 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, I have no help for befunge98! < 1241726081 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FukYorBrane? < 1241726085 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/eso/fyb/README < 1241726085 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1241726097 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hiato: i think gmp has primality tests < 1241726100 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh right, that thing we played with yesterday :-P < 1241726138 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: cool, will check < 1241726141 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://codu.org/eso/fyb/report.txt // Somebody tied with logicex-2 :P < 1241726142 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, I beat everybody except you, w00t. < 1241726148 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, what about polyhedra loop optimisation? < 1241726177 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hiato: mpz_probab_prime_p < 1241726197 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome, will do, thanks < 1241726216 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's for distant future right now. heh. i didn't view any paper or articles on it yet. < 1241726226 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"One is to use two or more cells per item, where one is used for actual value, one is used to mark the boundary of array (for [>>] or variants), and others are scratch cell." < 1241726249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, iirc ais bf backend to gcc used 5 cells < 1241726253 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:53 AnMaster: ehird, what do you call a collection of atoms. < 1241726256 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for various uses. < 1241726257 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a collection of quarks < 1241726267 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so it says "[>>] or variants". < 1241726268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and what do you call a collection of quarks? ;P < 1241726269 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: are you talking about brainfuck optimization? < 1241726275 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, hm < 1241726282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a collection of quarks < 1241726287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Discrete space, bitch. < 1241726298 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: i'm making highly-optimizing brainfuck compiler for now. :) < 1241726308 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: what's your target? < 1241726310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, no. I'm talking about optimising intercal of course... what do you think < 1241726326 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hopefully C, so i can understand it < 1241726326 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ;) < 1241726335 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: brainfuck-to-C compiler. < 1241726346 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you are interested, please visit http://code.google.com/p/esotope-bfc/ < 1241726367 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how far have you gotten? < 1241726380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, it says there. < 1241726387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read the page and the linked ones. < 1241726390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and/or the code < 1241726420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, where is the "browse code" thing? < 1241726423 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my code is too terrible to read. ;) < 1241726427 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: click "source" tab. < 1241726441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, no browser there, only download info. < 1241726447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go to the hg url < 1241726449 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, hmm... < 1241726452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a web viewer < 1241726461 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'll add the link to main page < 1241726462 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not clickable. Too much work ;P < 1241726471 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hg.mearie.org/esotope/bfc/ < 1241726472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1241726475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hg.mearie.org/esotope/bfc/ < 1241726475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :clicky. < 1241726476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1241726499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway I could just select it in the browser and right click and select "open url in new tab" < 1241726657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, why all in one file btw? < 1241726700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally I would probably split emitter code into one file, loading code in one, and optimisation in one. Possibly several for different optimisation passes < 1241726793 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: since it is in heavy development i won't split them before its structure once stablized. < 1241726805 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh? < 1241726828 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1241726833 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm experimenting with various choices < 1241726868 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it turned out that current intermediate representation has many deficiencies < 1241726878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, sure, but why does splitting into modules make that harder? You have the same interfaces between the classes anyway? Just easier to manage in the editor < 1241726895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I assume your editor has no issues with having more than one file open at once of course < 1241726930 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :No route to host < 1241726949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"structured into multiple private modules" does not imply "stable public API" to me... < 1241726971 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: for that, it was just borethsome and there is no other reason. < 1241726984 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bothersome* < 1241727008 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh. I find long files more bothersome than multiple files. :P < 1241727030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess it is subjective < 1241727075 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and why can't i browse the source? < 1241727097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can < 1241727102 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not easily < 1241727112 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, it isn't hosted on google code < 1241727125 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i write many codes both for work and for fun, and i just don't think of quality for fun unless there are a ton of codes. < 1241727127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you open the non-clicky link.. < 1241727150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, meh. I always try to think of quality when coding for fun ;P < 1241727159 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then again I guess that is a matter of taste. < 1241727247 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: obtw, printf("foo") is a bug < 1241727250 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: of course some quality is automatically achieved, but i'm not aiming at best quality ;) < 1241727265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, agreed < 1241727273 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: you ought to be using fwrite < 1241727280 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fputs() < 1241727298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah fputs < 1241727299 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, brainfuck can output nuls < 1241727300 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write(2) < 1241727302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1241727305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: yer right. < 1241727308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwrite it is < 1241727313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and again < 1241727313 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: ah right! < 1241727315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR wins < 1241727317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write(2) < 1241727319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fastest, most direct < 1241727322 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i totally ignored that. thank you for pointing out. < 1241727326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: listen to the man GregorR ;-) < 1241727330 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ERRR < 1241727335 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :buffering and portability is good < 1241727342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so's your mom < 1241727344 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't use write(2) < 1241727351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW SLOW < 1241727352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1241727354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine use fwrite < 1241727361 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write or fwrite *shrugs* < 1241727367 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But buffering is bad and write is portable. < 1241727379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, buffering plays with lostkng < 1241727381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm pretty sure < 1241727391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you enable long descriptions you have to input something to get the first room description < 1241727393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you have buffering < 1241727396 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And makes PSOX etc difficult. < 1241727418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yep < 1241727557 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :okay, it emits fwrite(stdout, "Hello World!", 12); now. < 1241727560 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how good can a c compiler be at using the sse instructions? < 1241727570 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As good as a C compiler can be < 1241727601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: write(1) < 1241727604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1241727605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(2) < 1241727606 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<_< < 1241727619 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :guh < 1241727624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: death to buffering! death to no speed! < 1241727629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: as I said, buffering breaks shit < 1241727629 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do not use the system call interface if you can avoid it < 1241727630 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so stfu :p < 1241727637 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so set nonbuffered on stdout < 1241727651 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why not just use write(2) < 1241727656 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and get some extra microspeed < 1241727665 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Death to buffering == death to speed, in some cases. < 1241727670 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: EINTR < 1241727681 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :write(2) isn't Windoze-compatible. < 1241727685 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes, but you have to not buffer. < 1241727689 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Yes it is. < 1241727692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For LostKng and PSOX, for two examples < 1241727697 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, what GregorR said < 1241727704 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Cygwin doesn't count. < 1241727708 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: No, it doesn't. < 1241727708 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1241727711 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Windows has write(2) < 1241727717 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: In MSVCRT < 1241727728 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's news. < 1241727734 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Old news. < 1241727736 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ancient news. < 1241727745 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :News is a subjective concept. < 1241727748 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haven't you ever used MingW? :P < 1241727749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SO WHAT I'M SAYING IS, lifthrasiir use write(2) :-P < 1241727760 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh :p < 1241727781 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, is there any brainfuck compiler worth adding to Comparison page? < 1241727789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope. < 1241727793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :add some interps? < 1241727800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: ah, wait < 1241727804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if you enable long descriptions you have to input something to get the first room description < 1241727806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :idea: < 1241727807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: GregorR's EgoBF suite. < 1241727833 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: And the two best interps: http://swapped.cc/bf/ http://mazonka.com/brainf/index.html < 1241727833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, whenever you have a input command, do an fflush() first. < 1241727842 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you can still allow buffering < 1241727843 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf newegg, send me my parts < 1241727851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it will flush before it waits for input < 1241727852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf bsmntbombdood, be patient < 1241727855 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: those are mentioned in the page already. ;) < 1241727858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :postage can take like a week in the uk < 1241727860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: ah, kay < 1241727861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, this is what cfunge does btw. < 1241727862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir: even egobf? < 1241727865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a compiler, jit and interpreter < 1241727869 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not egobf yet. < 1241727880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, see what I mean? < 1241727885 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Yes, I have, but obviously I don't use POSIX functions with MinGW. :-P < 1241727887 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: i see. that seems reasonable. < 1241727892 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i ordered them yesterday < 1241727907 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it used to be a pain getting stdin/stdout working on Windows < 1241727908 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I see that it is in io.h. < 1241727912 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although allegedly, it's easier nowadays < 1241727912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: you canucks are so impatient. you are a canuck right < 1241727926 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not familiar with that term < 1241727934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: canadian < 1241727935 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So using write(2) isn't non-GCC-compliant unless you're careful to import the right thing. < 1241727940 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : btw, is there any brainfuck compiler worth adding to Comparison page? <-- don < 1241727944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't* add mine. < 1241727947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it is buggy < 1241727954 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no...what made you think that < 1241727955 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :really it is a dead project < 1241727957 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :alright. < 1241727963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: err i seem to remember you were < 1241727968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: k, USians are so impatient < 1241727969 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: People use compilers other than GCC? Hyuk hyuk] < 1241727970 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it didn't have any project page i assumed that is not public < 1241727984 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: You've used DMC yourself. :-P < 1241728001 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only to see how shitty and not-GCC it is! < 1241728015 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've also used wcc, pcc and tcc :P < 1241728017 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GCC is pretty the crap... < 1241728019 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and icc < 1241728031 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1241728033 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DMC will error out on #include on Windows. < 1241728041 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sweet :P < 1241728051 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with "can't find unistd.h"? < 1241728055 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#error "unistd.h is not for Windows use" < 1241728056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or does it have a unistd.h with a #error in? < 1241728058 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1241728062 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#if _WIN32 < 1241728063 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-129-241.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1241728066 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAH < 1241728071 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Is not for Windows use" < 1241728072 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is completely correct. < 1241728072 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's so stupid :P < 1241728075 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it's not. < 1241728080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the way that the old Windows documentation used to have portability boxes in it < 1241728088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saying which of the functions were POSIX-compatible < 1241728096 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, hah < 1241728101 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the answer is, not really any of the useful ones, unless they were in the C standard as well < 1241728178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm, Linus uses Fedora < 1241728184 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd have thought he would be more of an LFS man < 1241728201 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's not that kind of guy < 1241728203 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1241728205 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not even slightly. < 1241728216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I agree, but he's a make-a-kernel guy. < 1241728219 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He probably compiles his own kernel ;) < 1241728228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd expect him to, say, build his own base and then use some distro's packages on top of it < 1241728229 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He programs low-level stuff, sure, but he's not much of a sysadmin. < 1241728229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or something < 1241728366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Damn, I just realised that I first tried Ubuntu w/ 5.10. That's ages ago :P < 1241728389 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: If the first three digits of the year are the same, it's not ages ago. < 1241728392 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never tried Ubuntu. < 1241728411 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've used it since our school has it, but not otherwise. < 1241728420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: I only started existing ten years before that release was made. < 1241728422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's ages ago for me. < 1241728443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My first linux distro was a crappy thing called PCLinuxOS; I don't remember why < 1241728456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I thought PCLinuxOS was rather popular < 1241728459 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Well geeze, is it MY fault you couldn't get off your butt and into existence? < 1241728461 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although not as popular as Ubuntu, of course < 1241728461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is it? < 1241728466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The name is really cheesy. < 1241728473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's an operating system for your personal computer! < 1241728477 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a Mandr{ake,iva} derivative. < 1241728478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never stuck with any of them 'til 2006, ofc, because of winmodem issues < 1241728480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Yeah < 1241728531 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"PCLinuxOS, often abbreviated as PCLOS" makes it sound like a yet another Common LISP object system. < 1241728537 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAH < 1241728557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1241728568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pico Common Lisp Object System < 1241728570 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's really minimalist! < 1241728570 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Perl Common LISP Object System :P < 1241728571 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Presumbly Common LISP Object System < 1241728572 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: anyway Ubuntu is basically Debian, but with a nicer interface, some dubious patches, a really rigid release schedule, and a rather lax attitude towards bug reports < 1241728578 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never used Debian. < 1241728590 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Deewiant: anyway Ubuntu is basically Debian, but with a nicer interface, some dubious patches, a really rigid release schedule, and a rather lax attitude towards bug reports // an excellent description < 1241728608 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ubuntu is basically Debian, but with the core values sacrificed." < 1241728614 0 :lifthrasiir!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't made Debian obsolete. they just have different goals. < 1241728619 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1241728624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: a bad interface is a core value of Debian? < 1241728627 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That explains *a lot*. < 1241728628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more to the point, Ubuntu isn't a fork, just a patchset < 1241728763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd like an Ubuntu without the dubious patches, without the non-free stuff by default, more upstream interaction, and less tampering with other people's software. < 1241728773 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1241728780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian gets the first two but doesn't have the nice interface and release schedule and shit < 1241728796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And other distros are either source based, have a tiny community and thus aren't really very polished, ... < 1241728799 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or use rpm) < 1241728808 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-129-241.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1241728808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd probably be all over fedora core if it didn't use rpm. < 1241728822 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the dubious patches that give Ubuntu its interface niceness, though, mostly < 1241728838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, that's the "tampering with other people's software" < 1241728845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1241728846 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most of ubuntu's niceness can be done w/ separate packages < 1241728850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like the notification system, etc < 1241728873 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1241728932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So separate polish packages for a nicer interface + nice release schedule + FOSS only by default (according to DFSG more or less) + upstream interaction + doesn't patch other's software more than necessary + good, medium-to-large sized community = distro heaven. < 1241728934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Doesn't exist though. < 1241728942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and + nice package manager + that means not RPM. < 1241728957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Because Fedora seems to fulfill most of the rest, heh.) < 1241728977 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what in particular do you have against RPM, by the way? < 1241728986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've never used it, so I don't know why it's so hated, and I'm interested < 1241728993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You cannot possibly imagine. < 1241729033 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, that's why I'm asking < 1241729041 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's got to be better than CPAN, surely? < 1241729059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Imagine distilled hell as a package manager, with many things that should be bugs but are design decisions. Imagine it breaks shit wildly. Imagine a weeping child. Imagine Satan typecasted to a package manager. Imagine this. Imagine this. Imagine -- you're falling, oh god it's me, *I'm* falling, where am I, who am Imagine this. < 1241729073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's basically what using rpm is like. < 1241729084 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1241729088 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's a bit over the top :P < 1241729107 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm after technical info, not metaphors < 1241729120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That WAS the technical info. < 1241729125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Are you sure you want to hear the metaphors? < 1241729138 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't believe you < 1241729151 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea what's better about .deb and pals, but I know that I've always had weird packaging issues on RPM-based distros and never on .deb-based distros. Not much of a technical detail, because I've never been able to distill particular issues, it's just always that way. < 1241729298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally I prefer source based ones. IME it works better when you are mixing stable and testing packages. < 1241729304 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also better in many other cases < 1241729309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like: less work < 1241729315 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, source-based is slower < 1241729330 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I generally use binary for most things, but swap out to source-based for things I'm testing or modifying < 1241729342 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one thing I like about debs is you can mix source and binary without much trouble < 1241729346 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: my apparent issue with the arch linux installer is that when it tries to update the package manager definitions I get a Transient resolver failure. < 1241729350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: checkinstall++ < 1241729358 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, not really: scenario: glibc 2.6 -> 2.7 upgrade, discover valgrind package is broken and needs to be recompiled against new glibc < 1241729361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you do < 1241729368 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, for two versions of Ubuntu in a row, now, there's an error in at whenever I run the package manager < 1241729371 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's been reported for months < 1241729374 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1241729375 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they haven't fixed it yet < 1241729379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a) file a bug and build a new binary package locally then install it < 1241729383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b) just reinstall the package < 1241729390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :b for source based, a for binary ones < 1241729398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there I say source based ones are faster. < 1241729401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: pull updates, and find that it's been automatically rebuilt against the new glibc by the build farm < 1241729402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you have clearly never used a binary package manager. < 1241729407 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I had < 1241729414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :had to use them < 1241729414 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I meant to say a good one < 1241729424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, such as? < 1241729432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anything other than dpkg/apt is shit, and if you don't know what you're doing with dpkg/apt they're shit too. < 1241729443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :getting cosy with dpkg/apt = package manager heaven. < 1241729455 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dpkg and apt are actually a separation of powers < 1241729462 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dpkg is a package manager, apt manages repositories < 1241729462 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yay slackware .tar.gz packages! < 1241729467 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dpkg doesn't care where the packages come from < 1241729468 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tar vzxf mypkg.tar.gz LAWL < 1241729474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, getting cosy with any good package manager == heaven. That is true for portage and pacman at least < 1241729476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: YOU FORGOT THE POST-INSTALL SCRIPT < 1241729479 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and .debs are tar.gz too, just with a different extension < 1241729481 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: OH NOSE < 1241729487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not as good as dpkg/apt. < 1241729504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, only if you don't know what you are doing with portage and/or pacman :P < 1241729506 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Actually they're three files in a .ar, one of which is data.tar.gz :P < 1241729509 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say a good source-based package manager can be as good to use as a good binary-based manager < 1241729515 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: oh, yes < 1241729523 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the diff file, and the dsc < 1241729524 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.ar? O_o < 1241729529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway you totally ignored my example above < 1241729530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fun < 1241729531 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just you get them unpacked if you use apt-get source < 1241729534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: it's not going on to a tape! < 1241729542 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's for legal reasons, I think < 1241729544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, because ais523 covered it, and also dpkg/apt can handle BOTH SOURCE AND BINARY PACKAGES < 1241729547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which you don't seem to have realised < 1241729552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it needs the package manager to remember to rebuild valgrind and such, IME they often forget that < 1241729565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o_O < 1241729627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, maybe debian managed that somehow. Marking "must be rebuilt when dependency foo is updated in the y bit of x.y-patchlevel" or such could work. < 1241729627 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, dpkg/apt is not a very good source-based package manager. < 1241729629 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: whenever anyone on Slashdot claims that open source program (insert name here) is really hard to compile, I grab the source package and dependencies and compile the source package to prove them wrong < 1241729638 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It *is*, however, the best damned binary package manager. < 1241729644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it isn't the best, but it's the best binary package manager, and it does okay at doing source stuff < 1241729652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can mix them without too much pain; binary works in most cases < 1241729652 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, as source-based you have to compile by hand < 1241729657 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about nethack. That is one hard to compile IMO. < 1241729659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster's only example was an edge case < 1241729661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you can write a script to do that < 1241729669 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, at least, for multi-user installs. < 1241729669 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1241729672 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah, AnMaster's only example was an edgecase, and when doing source stuff with apt as an edge case it works < 1241729675 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd say that either Portage or Ports is the best source-based package manager... < 1241729684 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the assumption is that, if you got the source package, you probably wanted to modify before compiling < 1241729694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um. I find that kind of stuff is rather common with rolling release. < 1241729705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: and you attribute this to everything but rolling release :) < 1241729733 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Portage, of course, is a poor binary package manager. Mostly, its usage for binary packages is rolling out the same configuration to a bunch of systems. < 1241729752 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FLAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAARGHLE < 1241729755 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good lawd < 1241729759 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This conversation never ends. < 1241729765 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I find ports a bit bad at updates to packages like perl and python, where you need to rebuild various modules afterwards. Generally ports seems to work well but need more work (reading /usr/ports/UPDATING and so on) < 1241729768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blame that other guy < 1241729785 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somebody write some FYB code! :P < 1241729794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, non-rolling releases have lots and lots of other issues. < 1241729813 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: I'll give you some credit here: Slackware is definitely the most *elegant* package management system. ;) < 1241729854 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somebody write some FYB code! D8< < 1241729854 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's something nice about "Well, it's just a tarball." < 1241729861 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ < 1241729874 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somebody write some good FYB code :P < 1241729886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, like bumpy rides when it is time for major upgrades. A lot of work then. Personally I prefer to have the non-trivial upgrades spread out over the year, like one non-trivial package / month rather than 5 non-trivial ones at the same time. < 1241729887 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: you have to limit FYB program length < 1241729891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a lot of work? < 1241729895 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Why? < 1241729899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :click update manager, like you always do < 1241729904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :click upgrade on the "new distro!" thing < 1241729907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do other stuff < 1241729909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, it's done < 1241729910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :reboot < 1241729912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :continue < 1241729912 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because otherwise you can start with something like %?[%%%%%%%%%... 1000000 more no-ops here...%%]? < 1241729913 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well debian is better than ubuntu when it comes to that iirc. < 1241729917 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :errrrrr nope < 1241729924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ubuntu's the best at easy distro upgrades < 1241729927 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The best you can hope for is a tie with that. < 1241729938 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: you put the rest of your program at the end < 1241729943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, from what I heard from ais that seems not true. < 1241729949 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm, 'struth. < 1241729955 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the point being that the other program needs to run a million > commands to reach your pointer < 1241729959 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Maybe I should make nops not-typable. < 1241729963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ais is, I fear, one of those people who breaks everything he touches. < 1241729991 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: either you should make all [] run at least once, or limit program length, really < 1241730001 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise something similar could be done < 1241730006 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but more complicated < 1241730009 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, probably. < 1241730023 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe you could do it INTERCAL-style, where [ abstains from everything up to and including the next ] < 1241730032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, maybe I'm one of them too. Thus I prefer a very robust system. One that is easy to mend when you broke it. One with less GUI abstractions, since I will always need to edit the text configs anyway sooner or later. < 1241730033 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually, even that's speed-of-light movemetn < 1241730036 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*movement < 1241730037 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it wouldn't help < 1241730067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I need to learn to not argue with people who only use the same arguments and who I already know are wrong ;-) < 1241730070 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fwiw, just starting with one million % without the loop would have a similar effect, just not as strongly < 1241730075 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or one million >< < 1241730077 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever < 1241730083 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, Gentoo is robust in my experience. < 1241730088 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, do you agree? < 1241730091 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: see what I just said? < 1241730095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not interested, stfu. < 1241730106 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: anyway, from what I've heard, Ubuntu distro upgrades work well, but Debian's work even better < 1241730118 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah you say that every time you realise I won the discussion. < 1241730120 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nice try. < 1241730121 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I admit that only one out of four Ubuntu upgrades have gone smoothly for me < 1241730129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, I didn't < 1241730132 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but in at least one of those, and probably two, it was my fault < 1241730135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stop reading a fuckin' conspiracy into everything < 1241730143 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you've said all your arguments, stop rallying your goddamn troops < 1241730151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, You can have a conspiracy with just a single person in it? < 1241730156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um... < 1241730166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only you could imagine such a thing, but it seems so. < 1241730194 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you seemed to be suggesting it. I never even considered the idea before. < 1241730207 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Gentoo is actually not all that robust. < 1241730216 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gentoo is a distro that assumes you know what you're doing. < 1241730227 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And if you don't, bad shit happens. < 1241730242 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, well yes. But it is easy to mend if bad thing *does* happen. < 1241730243 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, LFS is a distroy that assumes you know what you're doing :P < 1241730260 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not that bad things happened since 2004 on gentoo to me. < 1241730260 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(generally next time they do a major change, like XFree86 -> X.org or 2.4 -> 2.6) < 1241730268 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: LFS is more so. < 1241730318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, LFS is "follow the manual" then "realise the system is unmaintainable due to no easy way to upgrade" then a few days later "switch back to the gentoo install" < 1241730330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1241730330 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, I've once before now built a Linux system via makefile < 1241730336 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh? < 1241730337 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a makefile that was full of wget < 1241730340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hah < 1241730342 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, linux-from-scratch < 1241730344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but automated < 1241730355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes that exists already. ALFS iirc < 1241730358 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it got all the bits it used from their original websites < 1241730364 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the kernel from kernel.org, for instance < 1241730371 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: LFS is for learning, not for being your "real" distro. < 1241730378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, indeed. < 1241730387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, and I have done LFS, HLFS, CLFS < 1241730399 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've only done LFS :( < 1241730401 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: why don't they make LFS more user-friendly, then < 1241730403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in results < 1241730414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it does work as a real distro < 1241730414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1241730417 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LFS 6.0? < 1241730422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR is wrong < 1241730424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wasn't it the last stable version when I did it too < 1241730426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the author of lfs uses it < 1241730428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some years ago... < 1241730438 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there is no single author of it < 1241730449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION has been on the linux from scratch irc server < 1241730452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's the original author. < 1241730455 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : They're all married. < 1241730460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, what < 1241730514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, care to explain that totally non-sequitur reply... < 1241730526 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, I'm tired of explaining my jokes :P < 1241730542 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, well since you directed it at me... < 1241730544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: that's the harsh reality of AnMaster < 1241730554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : x isn't directing, it's impersonating. < 1241730562 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is even worse < 1241730571 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except when you're MAKING A FUCKING JOKE < 1241730571 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well "worse" isn't right word < 1241730587 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird, there is no single author of it They're all married. < 1241730588 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, well since you impersonated me... What was the joke. < 1241730590 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is no SINGLE author < 1241730593 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because they're all MARRIED < 1241730596 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1241730596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION rubs eyes, swigs whiskey ← don't do anmaster, kids < 1241730604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'll ruin your life < 1241730606 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See how it's not funny when I have to explain it X_X < 1241730610 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, is this a reference to something? < 1241730618 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :O_O < 1241730619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHAHAHAHAA < 1241730625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: let's go mad together < 1241730627 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1241730628 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are < 1241730629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you < 1241730630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :talking < 1241730632 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about < 1241730636 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ehird style space) < 1241730639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahahahahahaahahahaha < 1241730688 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "Single" as in unmarried. < 1241730696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, ah right. that meaning. < 1241730701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1241730708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: so, about that going mad < 1241730710 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm done, how about you? < 1241730721 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm holding on to my sanity by thinking about eating breakfast for dinner. < 1241730739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Furthermore, time is cyclic. < 1241730745 0 :tombom_!i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1241730755 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :See? Sanity! < 1241730777 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be interesting with a cyclic universe < 1241730790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would? < 1241730831 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well, if you invented some way to become immortal you could have fun the second time around. < 1241730849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if time's cyclic, you'd do the exact same thing each time < 1241730854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the matter would be exactly the same < 1241730859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thus you would not have any memories < 1241730870 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :effectively you'd be a new person < 1241730872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :each time. < 1241730873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, depends on cyclic in what way < 1241730876 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Unless you were a living time paradox :) < 1241730881 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: In the cyclic way. < 1241730888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, or that < 1241730889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has a meaning. < 1241730927 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what if you could survive the end and pass through to the beginning next time around. Then you could use it as a time machine < 1241730939 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then time is not cyclic. < 1241730952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that doesn't make good sf... < 1241730958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;P < 1241730970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Time is cyclic except when it's not." < 1241730971 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gripping./ < 1241730974 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/\/$// < 1241730991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, s/when it is not/when you reverse the polarity/ < 1241730991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh! < 1241731002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there you have a perfect concept! < 1241731149 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hm; that's no fun: VirtualBox's "OSE" open-source edition doesn't support the SATA controller, according to their web page; but since the configuramator GUI still has a "enable additional controller" checkbox in the hard disks tab, and lets you attach things up to 30 SATA ports, so I thought maybe they enabled that feature in the open-source version too; but then it just gives a cryptic VERR_PDM_DEVICE_NOT_FOUND error when starting. < 1241731153 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, Arch installed. < 1241731155 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How surprising. < 1241731159 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: it works for me. < 1241731167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1241731170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do I have the closed source one? < 1241731186 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How should I know what you have? It's free-for-personal-use, though, so you might well have it. < 1241731191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1241731193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems so. < 1241731203 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : How surprising. <-- why? < 1241731205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Use qemu/virtualbox's closed source one? < 1241731215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It hasn't worked in two VMs previously? < 1241731232 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, PEBKAC I suspect. < 1241731245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or PEIVM < 1241731247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So you keep saying. No, it was Arch not supporting a part of the VM configuration. < 1241731248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly < 1241731251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Arch's fault. < 1241731261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I suppose that's heretical to the Holy Church of Distro Perfectness. < 1241731270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, You haven't given enough details to debug the issue < 1241731279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nor filed bug reports. < 1241731280 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't mind the lack of SATA controller so much (that I'd bother doing something that's not directly aptable), it's just that I don't like how they're giving me false hopes by making it available in the config screens, then crashing them down by not booting. < 1241731283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :afaik < 1241731287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't ask anyone to debug it, AnMaster. < 1241731301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you complained loudly though < 1241731319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If by loudly you meant I mentioned I gave up on arch due to not working in a vm as a one-line remark. < 1241731330 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 lines < 1241731335 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :constructive feedback and details bug reports is more useful < 1241731340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :20 lines? Where? < 1241731346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some days ago < 1241731348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbiab < 1241731350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I don't give a damn what you want me to do regarding Arch bugs. < 1241731448 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And anyway the open-source edition supports a couple of SCSI controllers, so I can build this "going-to-be-transferred-on-a-real-hardware-where-the-HD-will-be-/dev/sda" thing without any device-naming differences. < 1241731510 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe not. Strange. I thought it was supposed to do the SCSI controllers. < 1241731523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: just use qemu < 1241731527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's slow but acurrate < 1241731529 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*accurate < 1241731625 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION likes qemu < 1241731633 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I could, but since I have it in the 'box already... did qemu happen to do the .vdi thing? Not that I couldn't just convert the image. < 1241731649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Qemu uses .raw and .qcow, I think. < 1241731651 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION wurves qemu. < 1241731660 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qemu supports tons of formats, but not .vdi < 1241731694 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Supported format: nbd parallels qcow2 vvfat vpc bochs dmg cloop vmdk qcow cow host_device raw < 1241731715 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, it's a fixed-size .vdi, so it's pretty much .raw with an offset; and "VBoxManage converthd --format RAW" should get rid of the offset, too. < 1241731721 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so you recommend to not file any bugs to any projects, instead only complain in some totally unrelated irc channel and not report the issue at all < 1241731722 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :great < 1241731725 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Er, clonehd, not converthd. < 1241731759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1241731761 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1241731762 0 :tombom_!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :tombom < 1241731810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"open source editions" lacking most of the useful features are worse than "closed source, but no-cost" software IMO < 1241731819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least the latter doesn't pretend to be open < 1241731833 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't really lack "most of the useful features"; it's pretty usable as-is. < 1241731837 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, VirtualBox OSE excludes only some spectacularly useless featuers. < 1241731841 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*features < 1241731849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, lacking SCSI emulation is "lacking major feature" to me < 1241731874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also what about forwarding serial port and usb devices? < 1241731877 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Lacking emulation of a technology no one uses? < 1241731881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :using native partitions? < 1241731889 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait, it can't do the latter in any edition iir < 1241731891 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc* < 1241731896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure about forwarding serial and usb < 1241731902 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, um I use them. < 1241731905 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Lacking the possibility of using >3 HDs. < 1241731930 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is even worse < 1241731936 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Assuming the open-source edition doesn't do the SCSI controllers; I'm not quite sure about that.) < 1241731950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, does it do serial and usb forwarding? < 1241731988 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.virtualbox.org/wiki/Editions <-- seems like no < 1241731990 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think USB-passthrough is also only in the closed-source edition. Not that I've ever wanted to have that. < 1241731998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, I need that feature < 1241732002 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Serial is supported everywhere. < 1241732007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :usb one I mean < 1241732032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have some silly devices that only support windows sadly. Like a GPS unit I need to update the maps on every now and then < 1241732036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :needs windows to do it. < 1241732046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for use in car) < 1241732047 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's a good candidate for some reverse-engineering fun. < 1241732054 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and you can use native partitions. < 1241732071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, even sillier: the gps unit actually runs linux on arm internally < 1241732076 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go figure < 1241732080 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was under the impression that USB forwarding had made it into the OSI. < 1241732084 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(You have to create a .vmdk file referring to the raw partition.) < 1241732098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, err .vmdk is vmware < 1241732103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm 100% sure of that < 1241732111 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: VirtualBox can use VMWare files. < 1241732113 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1241732133 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yes, and the raw-partition support is done as a part of the vmdk support. < 1241732139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I think I prefer vmware-server then. At least it doesn't pretend to be open source. < 1241732149 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while stripping vital features < 1241732164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as usb and sata < 1241732170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly scsi < 1241732178 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm ok < 1241732198 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't prefer it, because last time I tried it, it made an unholy mess of things. I really don't like installers touching my files all around, anyway. < 1241732212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, vmware-server? < 1241732212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1241732215 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1241732223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gentoo has a package for it, that contains the mess < 1241732228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and makes it easy to handle < 1241732235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1241732253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, from what I can see it uses sed a lot. < 1241732254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1241732256 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might be; I guess no Debian-enthusiast has bothered to go through all that trouble. < 1241732279 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1241732291 0 :Hiato!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving." < 1241732304 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There is "vmware-package" which gives a make-vmpkg tool that you can use to build .debs out of vmware workstation/player/server installer files. < 1241732317 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess that would handle the mess too. < 1241732331 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Again,don't be angry with me if you see this message in SPAM of your mailbox; it will be because I send it with low internet connection." < 1241732340 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wasn't there the last time I looked. < 1241732373 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, um. what is a "low internet connection" supposed to be... < 1241732391 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't know, but don't you just wurve how stupid spam is? :P < 1241732397 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, yeah < 1241732410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, except I don't know what "wurve" means. *googles* < 1241732414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't read the spam < 1241732428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No definitions were found for wurve. < 1241732428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry < 1241732431 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I especially love how it then goes on to say "I am the Executive Auditor and Head Of Computing Department in my bank." And yet for some reason, he can only afford "low internet connection" :P < 1241732449 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"wurve" is some kind of cutesy-or-something spelling for "love" < 1241732457 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=wurve < 1241732460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that disagrees < 1241732466 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and google doesn't know it at all < 1241732476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, google's define: < 1241732486 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You're trusting Urban Dictionary? :P < 1241732486 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That would make me smarter than Google and Urban Dictionary combined, now wouldn't it < 1241732502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, it is usually useful for irc < 1241732511 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but not really < 1241732520 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, Deewiant was right :P < 1241732536 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR, aspell doesn't like it either < 1241732543 0 :WangZeDong!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-108-216.w92-139.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1241732546 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not a real word, it's onomatopoeic. < 1241732557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor is it in /usr/share/dict/words < 1241732559 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok < 1241732988 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Peace and Protection 4.22.2" < 1241733093 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1241733111 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :Logarithms: | ~fish~ < 1241733148 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that crc32 sse4 instruction is hilarious < 1241733154 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder how much faster it is? < 1241733354 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I noticed it just recently when twiddling through Linux kernel menuconfig; there's a CONFIG_CRYPTO_CRC32C_INTEL setting that makes use of it. < 1241733367 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - #esoteric is not associated with the joke language Perl, please visit www.perl.org - logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1241733376 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid TOPIC #esoteric :#esoteric, the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - #esoteric is not associated with the joke language Perl, please visit www.perl.org - logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ < 1241733435 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, I always get a warm fuzzy nostalgic feeling when we have "the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment" in the topic < 1241733455 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I decided it was time to switch it back to my original topic :P < 1241733464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that was yours? < 1241733467 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1241733478 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :05.10.10:19:09:35 --- topic: set to '#esoteric, the international hub for esoteric programming language design and deployment - #esoteric is not associated with the joke language Perl, please visit www.perl.org - logs: http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/ or http://meme.b9.com/cdates.html?channel=esoteric' by GregorR < 1241733653 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't seem to find any speed benchmarks between the crc32c and crc32c-intel modules. :/ < 1241733699 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: I should hope that somebody did benchmark them, rather than just assuming the latter was faster :P < 1241733745 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd hope that it's a fairly safe assumption that it is. < 1241733822 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd still hope that the original patch-writer would've tested hir implementation at least with some sort of rudimentary speed benchmark; but if that happened, it's not a very well-published result. I might be using the wrong sort of keywords, though. < 1241734027 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could theoretically speaking be motivated enough to try it myself, but I don't have any sort of fancy-pants CPU for that; I guess my second-newest Intel CPU would be... a Pentium-150 in a laptop. (And then I have this Atom box, but it doesn't do anything newer than ssse3 either.) < 1241734179 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Atom doesn't count as Intel? :-P < 1241734239 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does; that's why the P150 is the second-newest. < 1241734256 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. "And then" made it sound like it was a third box. < 1241734273 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Although I think I managed to forget a Pentium-M somewhere. < 1241734366 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"crypto" and "crc32" should not be in the same sentence < 1241734433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :21:28 AnMaster: ehird, so you recommend to not file any bugs to any projects, instead only complain in some totally unrelated irc channel and not report the issue at all ← not what I said. < 1241734437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that what I said? < 1241734447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't think so < 1241734459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I extrapolated from your behaviour. < 1241734469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's some sucky extrapolation. < 1241734471 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: you could use crc32 in order to verify that a public-key had transmitted properly < 1241734480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes it seems to match your opinion < 1241734481 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, you couldn't < 1241734483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't want to use it for the actual crypto, though < 1241734493 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't guarantee that things haven't been tampered with < 1241734495 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just that they don't contain typos < 1241734502 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't very useful for crypto < 1241734505 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as you suggest < 1241734507 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a bit unclear why crc32 is in the "cryptoapi" part; the help says it's used in iSCSI headers and things like that. < 1241734549 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it wasn't before .28 < 1241734554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1241734593 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there's still the "library routines" crc32 thing too; but the intel-accelerated patch was for a cryptoapi digest. < 1241734602 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess they just liked the cryptoapi digest-calculating API more. < 1241734632 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is not immediately obvious what would be a more suitable way of exporting that sort of stuff to userspace. < 1241734678 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Or can you use "raw" cryptoapi quasi-directly from a userspace application? I have no clue. The dm-crypto thing uses it, but that's inside the kernul.) < 1241734765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Let's have a change. /me tries "sudo pacman -S kde". < 1241734787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if this package manager is good enough to do "remove this and all its dependencies apart from vital shit, 'kay?" to wipe out ze kde. < 1241734811 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or, as apt puts it: remove packages that aren't depended on. < 1241734840 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"remove X and all its dependencies" is what Windows uninstallers try to do, which is why they're so broken < 1241734848 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"remove X, then remove all unused dependencies" is so much saner < 1241734856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, right. < 1241734864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was just describing the general operation < 1241734874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"rid me of this foul beast and all that it sides with! apart from my chums." < 1241734886 0 :puzzlet_!n=puzzlet@147.46.241.168 JOIN :#esoteric < 1241734904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Coo, it's downloading gcc. < 1241734910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :^C let's just install the build-essential equivalent. < 1241734914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... also, why does kde depend on gcc? < 1241734916 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The mind boggles. < 1241734927 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, sudo pacman -S core-devel was it? or dev. or base. < 1241734931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: do you know? < 1241734959 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: pacman -Si gcc < 1241734966 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Groups : base-devel < 1241734970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1241734996 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: would there happen to be a way to streamline its output and not make it ask me whether to install it twice ;-) < 1241735009 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Twice? < 1241735018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes | < 1241735024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"INSTALL THIS SHIT?" "OKAY, HERE ARE THE DEPENDENCIES. REALLY INSTALL THIS SHIT?" < 1241735031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "Do you want to erase your system for this package? [Yn]" < 1241735032 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes | < 1241735045 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: maybe | < 1241735052 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: pacman -S --help. < 1241735057 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : --noconfirm do not ask for any confirmation < 1241735063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: That's exactly what I don't want < 1241735069 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't want it to ask me the same question twice dammit :P < 1241735074 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :--no-vista < 1241735082 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can run vista without uac < 1241735110 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It only asks you twice for groups, btw. < 1241735115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah. < 1241735115 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which you won't be installing often. < 1241735117 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but that's insecure! < 1241735123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It has been my misfortune to mainly install groups ;-) < 1241735130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just run as a non-admin? < 1241735135 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1241735141 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's how the Vista computers over here are set up < 1241735143 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I set them up < 1241735154 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're as secure as I can get Vista without much Windows knowledge < 1241735158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you set up a windows machine willingly? < 1241735160 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and with only Norton 360 as the antivirus < 1241735167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit man < 1241735170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's awful < 1241735175 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :turn into a christian and repent < 1241735178 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with any luck they haven't been hacked into yet < 1241735183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can stop being a christian after that, it's ok < 1241735370 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think I'd rather run DOS than Vista. < 1241735394 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damnit, newegg < 1241735397 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is my computer < 1241735398 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least DOS does what you ask it and gets the fuck out of your way) < 1241735408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nowadays there's FreeDOS < 1241735425 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whose main advantage is that it's crazy fast < 1241735427 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah. I of course was thinking of FreeDOS. < 1241735430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: good god, have some patience < 1241735434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you really need it in 5 minutes? :P < 1241735442 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a damned good DOS. < 1241735443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've waited 3 weeks for things to be shipped < 1241735448 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i ordered it yesterday < 1241735454 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dell actually offer it on new computers as an OS choice along with Ubuntu or Windows < 1241735458 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: >_< < 1241735474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: so you get everything the day after you order it? < 1241735476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lucky bastard < 1241735487 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: they haven't even charged the card yet < 1241735515 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehh, bug their support team? < 1241735542 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Status: Submitted - Your order has been successfully submitted. Your credit/debit card has not yet been charged. Please allow 1-2 business days for your order to process and ship. < 1241735549 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1-2 business days?!?! < 1241735561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gahahaha < 1241735566 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you americans are spoilt rotten < 1241735574 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1-2 business days is luxury over here! < 1241735580 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uphill! < 1241735582 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :both ways! < 1241735597 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is 1-2 business days a long time for an online order? O_o < 1241735634 0 :puzzlet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1241735671 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is, isn't it? < 1241735681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: nope < 1241735682 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like ehird said, it's luxury :-P < 1241735694 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1-2 weeks is my default expectation. < 1241735694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an online order usually takes about a week from ordering to getting it < 1241735710 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only time I expect it to ship next day is when the web site says so... < 1241735717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: where do you order shit where you get it a day after ordering < 1241735730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Let's have a change. /me tries "sudo pacman -S kde". <-- kdemod. Read on arch wiki < 1241735748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: explain in 5 words, I don't wanna cancel my download :P < 1241735759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ah. tweaked. < 1241735761 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which generally means it's one of the few bits of inventory that they've got right next to the boxing guys, and they just need to stick a label on the box... < 1241735766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ask Deewiant < 1241735767 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying arch to escape from modified upstreams, y'know < 1241735771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: < 1241735772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm going to bed < 1241735775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night < 1241735784 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :waaah < 1241735796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: wtf is up with you :D < 1241735802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you first said about wanting a new pc a few months ago < 1241735807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now 1-2 business days is terrible? < 1241735825 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Modularized version of KDE from a third-party Arch package repo, or something like that < 1241735832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"and tweaked" < 1241735835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Upstream modification, boo < 1241735846 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IME that means that it works better. :-P < 1241735858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like I want to use KDE in practic < 1241735859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1241735860 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not all such modification is bad. < 1241735864 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes < 1241735867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just that the last 3458973489573495345 distros I've used use gnome :P < 1241735869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: why? < 1241735873 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1241735879 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Some packages need such modification to freaking *build*. < 1241735885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: That's fine. < 1241735888 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most KDE programs I've tried still crash for me, but with kdemod I at least managed to run some things. :-P < 1241735891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't like changes beyond "make it work properly" < 1241735896 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1241735914 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. Well, then, you'd like Gentoo... < 1241735922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Noooooooooooo way. < 1241735931 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The only package that does more than "make it work properly" is gentoo-sources. < 1241735933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck source distros, fuck Gentoo's community, fuck Gentoo's relation with upstreams. :P < 1241735943 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : nowadays there's FreeDOS whose main advantage is that it's crazy fast <-- stop making me want to port cfunge... AUGH < 1241735953 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: DOIT < 1241735955 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: DOIT < 1241735955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no posix :-) < 1241735960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OTOH, it'd work on Windows then < 1241735962 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: There is (nearly) with DJGPP < 1241735962 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Gentoo has an excellent relationship with most of its upstreams; exceptions being, well, dicks. < 1241735963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes I know < 1241735965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::((( < 1241735968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1241735969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1241735973 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, indeed < 1241735975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Not exactly nearly. < 1241735976 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No mmap? < 1241735980 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DJGPP supports a bunch of POSIXy stuff. No, not mmap. < 1241735981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I haven't seen that. < 1241735981 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: 2009-05-08 00:36:11 ( AnMaster) I'm going to bed < 1241735986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant, plan < 1241735987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: he does that all the time < 1241735988 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DJGPP supports what can be supported without killing yourself ;) < 1241735990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he takes a few hours < 1241735994 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And Gentoo's community is mostly smart people with a few dumbasses. < 1241735996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually < 1241735997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: AnMaster uses those things. < 1241735999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm IRCing from bed < 1241736000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1241736011 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean supported /on DOS/ without killing yourself, of course. < 1241736015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: like hell it is, I've never seen more people think they're cool because they can run a compiler and turn on optimization flags < 1241736018 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(you can tell whether they're smart depending on their opinion on funroll-loops.info) < 1241736034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Just saying that it wouldn't work for cfunge. < 1241736038 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not representative. I have met lots of gentoo users who aren't like that. < 1241736052 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact I met very few gentoo users like that < 1241736053 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Do they hang out in #the-secret-gentoo-channel-wihtout-all-the-idiots? < 1241736054 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one in fact < 1241736056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only one < 1241736056 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*without < 1241736063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because I've never, ever seen them. < 1241736073 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'part from a few in here. < 1241736075 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And you're saying "fuck source distros" while using arch. < 1241736077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh main #gentoo? Well the sub-channels tend to be saner < 1241736084 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Arch... is a binary distro... < 1241736086 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, arch is binary < 1241736089 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: settled on a distro yet? < 1241736097 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hrm. I feel dumb. < 1241736097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nope; thank god for cheap VM creation < 1241736097 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :though it has makepkg to build binary packages < 1241736100 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case you need it < 1241736120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: probably Ubuntu is what I'd use atm, for the "goddamn, just work" value. < 1241736126 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On the twelfth day, the LORD created cheap VM creation. And it was good. < 1241736144 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That's what I use Debian for, myself... < 1241736170 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe Slackware. < 1241736170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Debian's default gnome isn't quite as polished. < 1241736187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, installing and using Slackware is not much of a "hey, I just clicked this and it did it all for me, life is good" experience. < 1241736222 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe I was just insane, but when I used Slackware, it kinda... Just Worked (tm). < 1241736239 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(probably just insane; Slackware was my first distro) < 1241736242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thou art mad. < 1241736271 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SLS! < 1241736283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh god. < 1241736285 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, Slackware 8. < 1241736292 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hehe, slackware started because SLS switched to ELF... < 1241736307 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who uses gnome anyway>? < 1241736307 0 :M0ny!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"When you get sad stop being sad and be awesome instead." < 1241736309 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit sucks < 1241736318 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: not imo < 1241736323 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same goes for kde < 1241736324 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Funny, I thought Slackware started because SLS *wouldn't* switch to ELF... < 1241736328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a bit of a pain to configure but after that it's pretty smooth sailing < 1241736337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kde is awful indeed < 1241736342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I like a bit of glue between my components < 1241736351 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: nope < 1241736352 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, I'm wrong. < 1241736405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: out of curiosity, what wm do you use? < 1241736411 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ion3 < 1241736420 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1241736422 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shit is fucking awesome < 1241736434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i consider tiling wms unergonomical :) < 1241736494 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so's your face < 1241736516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tru dat. < 1241736521 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slackware 3.2 "broken edition" was my first distro. < 1241736553 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Why, hello, fellow Tiling WM user. < 1241736562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: my friend's got you all beat < 1241736565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yggdrasil < 1241736570 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(shame you use one by a dick, though) < 1241736575 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1241736576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That Yggdrasil. < 1241736581 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah tuomov is kinda abrasive < 1241736584 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you use? < 1241736594 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :don't say xmonad < 1241736597 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do Awesome3 here; it's a tiling wm too. < 1241736622 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood, he also is distributing Ion3 illegally. :p < 1241736634 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lolwut? < 1241736661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: licensing issues < 1241736667 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(at least, he is if there is a single bit of code from Ion3 before the non-free change not written by Tuomo) < 1241736674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tuomov's opinion on them seems to be "I CAN DO WHAT THE FUCK I WANT, YEAAAAH!" < 1241736711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1241736717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does the latest ion distro even have a LICENSE file? < 1241736739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1241736744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's extended LGPL with bullshit terms < 1241736745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1241736749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : - Versions not based on the copyright holder's latest release (on < 1241736749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : the corresponding "branch", such as Ion3(tm)), must within 28 days < 1241736750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : of this release, be prominently marked as (potentially) obsolete < 1241736752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : and unsupported. < 1241736754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAHA he actually added that < 1241736758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to debian having a few month old version < 1241736764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : - Significantly altered versions may be provided only if the user < 1241736764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : explicitly requests for those modifications to be applied, and < 1241736765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : is prominently notified that the software is no longer considered < 1241736768 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : the standard version, and is not supported by the copyright holder. < 1241736769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : The version string displayed by the program must describe these < 1241736771 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : modifications and the "support void" status. < 1241736773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : - A version that does not significantly differ from one of the < 1241736775 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : copyright holder's releases, must be provided by default. < 1241736777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just quoted all 3 clauses out of order < 1241736780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because they're all absolute gold < 1241736790 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would so love it if Debian somehow put on a script which took the latest version and patched it back to an old version < 1241736802 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh lawd < 1241736802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: can't < 1241736805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : - A version that does not significantly differ from one of the < 1241736805 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : copyright holder's releases, must be provided by default. < 1241736810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bahahaha < 1241736813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tuomov is such a retard < 1241736823 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"significantly"? < 1241736828 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the third term there is a weird wording of one DFSG-approved term < 1241736838 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That "significantly altered" refers (among other things, I guess) the incident where Arch's non-official "user repository" had a script that fetched Ion and installed the xft "blurry-fonts patch", yet called the result "ion". < 1241736841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is "all modified versions must be provided in the form of a diff from the original version" < 1241736842 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :When did Slackware switch to ELF? :P < 1241736850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: provided to the user < 1241736851 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian don't like that rule, but don't think it makes software nonfree < 1241736854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, < 1241736857 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a user does < 1241736859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apt-get install ion < 1241736862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they must get a stock one < 1241736864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless they do < 1241736867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :apt-get install ion-megadebian < 1241736868 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: Probably about when they switched to libc 6. < 1241736869 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok, that's bad < 1241736874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and which then must display prominently < 1241736879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WE SUCK DICKS AND YOU CANNOT GET SUPPORT FOR THIS VERSION <3 < 1241736894 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night really < 1241736897 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The thing I really "like" about all this is that he thinks that he can repeal the previous LGPL versions. < 1241736904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :basically, tuomov has no fucking idea what foss is and demands that packagers work like crack addicts to keep up to date with his shitty updates :-D < 1241736929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Significant change: Bug fixes are insignificant as additions." < 1241736944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Debian should consider their changes to Ion to be a bugfix for tuomov's idiocy ;-) < 1241736958 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: eglibc? < 1241736965 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm surprising Ion's not been forked by now. < 1241736967 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it wouldn't be the first time... < 1241736978 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: well, you couldn't call it eion < 1241736982 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have to completely change the name < 1241736990 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1241736992 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eglibc itself isn't the first time. < 1241736993 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :egcs, anyone? < 1241736994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although debian could redirect ion3 to opm < 1241736996 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@92.254.128.248 JOIN :#esoteric < 1241736997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean < 1241736997 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :opm4 < 1241736998 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux libc? < 1241737003 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :qwertyshift FTW < 1241737012 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you never said what you use < 1241737012 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or uib2 < 1241737027 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Ratpoison. < 1241737035 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mean to switch to StumpWM one of these days. < 1241737048 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slackware went from libc5 into glibc when they jumped versions from 4 -> 7 because redhat and friends were already at number 6. I don't remember the ELF thing; I think there was some sort of ELF support in 3.x already. < 1241737067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once drafted up in my head what would be needed to make a tiling wm usable (mainly manipulated w/ mouse, fitts law compliant etc) and it basically turned into a shit floating wm < 1241737210 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ratpoison has no mouse support right? < 1241737217 0 :GregorR!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Right < 1241737220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the clue's in the name < 1241737225 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i like my mouse < 1241737237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood++ < 1241737239 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hooray for mice! < 1241737252 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I use the mouse for Flash. < 1241737255 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's about it. < 1241737333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(It's not completely unheard of, though - GNU emacs used to greet Symbolics users with the message "In doing business with Symbolics, you are rewarding a wrong.") < 1241737334 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hahahah. < 1241737343 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Poor rms and his Symbolics hate. < 1241737352 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Rewarding a wrong! < 1241737369 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1241737373 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least Emacs didn't have an invariant clause. :p < 1241737373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Conjecture: other such patterns may be recognized in the future, depending on which unrealistic benchmarks we want to run faster. < 1241737383 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, just the manual < 1241737391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, arch installed kde < 1241737391 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1241737402 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the Emacs manual used to have a lengthy rant about why it didn't run on Windows < 1241737406 0 :bsmntbombdood!n=gavin@97-118-129-241.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1241737408 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although that's been fixed now too < 1241737447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://edward.oconnor.cx/2005/04/rms < 1241737482 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, assignment in Perl6 is as lazy as possible without breaking imperative semantics < 1241737499 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can write @array = 0..*; < 1241737501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Perl 6 is just shit. < 1241737506 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and get an infinitely long array < 1241737513 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Haskell doing that makes sense, seeing it in Perl is pretty mindblowing though < 1241737586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's also the only language I've seen with todo operators < 1241737600 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most people just put todos in comments... < 1241737619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OK, KDE installed on Arch and KDM set. < 1241737636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time to reboot and check it out. < 1241737648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :At least, nothing so far has happened that's any worse than Debian, so. < 1241737658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ACTION sudo shutdown -r now < 1241737661 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you planning to uninstall KDE again as a test? < 1241737670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not really. < 1241737689 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1241737698 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1241737702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm. < 1241737706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's asking me for a login. < 1241737709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is not kdm. < 1241737736 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!perl print "What do you mean, not associated?"; < 1241737737 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What do you mean, not associated? < 1241738092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL. < 1241738098 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I have KDE, I just don't have X11. Wtf. < 1241738098 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : If I get an additional crash due to not using ECC memory, I really won't notice. < 1241738146 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i do recall reading about a Java exploit that could use a large fraction of memory bit errors to break security < 1241738339 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by arranging for a reference to point to an object of the wrong class < 1241738351 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1241738386 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this could be an issue for any language based on strong static typing, i guess < 1241738442 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, probably dynamic too < 1241738579 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1241738726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Here goes ze KDM < 1241738748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy unantialiased text and no mouse batman < 1241738759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy no keyboard batman < 1241738774 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :holy Deewiant how do you uninstall a package and remove unused dependencies batman < 1241739437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyone used dwm? < 1241739443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll bet fizzie has < 1241739594 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I might have tried it, but not really used. < 1241739615 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: isn't awesome based on dwm < 1241739626 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems a bit like evilwm, except tiling. (Evilwm also does the whole "no title bar, no configuration files, not much of anything" thing.) < 1241739639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm sure awesome is based on dwm < 1241739642 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know the genealogy. < 1241739646 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1241739652 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seems to be. < 1241739652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: awesoem does floating windows, right? < 1241739654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are they a pain to use? < 1241739668 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Well, you might just have libX11. Technically, you don't need an X server. ;p < 1241739668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*awesome < 1241739674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: indeed that was the case < 1241739676 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want my new computer :( < 1241739681 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not quite sure what you mean by "pain". They float, that's about it. < 1241739688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: are you actually running into troubles with your current one or just impatience? < 1241739695 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11:57:37 a collection of quarks < 1241739698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: i mean, what if I basically just wanted to use floating windows < 1241739703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would that mesh with awesome? :p < 1241739705 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: other than slow as hell, no < 1241739709 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what did the poor leptons do to you since you ignore them? < 1241739718 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: sry leptons! < 1241739722 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, and the fans are dieing and making noise < 1241739740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Making noise? Hate to break it to ya but that i7 rig isn't going to be _quiet_... < 1241739753 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I... guess you could. One of the possible window layouts is "everything floating". I'm not sure how nice it is to use in a window-managmenty sense; my needs are so very simple. < 1241739773 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: dieing fan kind of noise < 1241739776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1241739818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: anyway, calm down or you'll forget t he spacers :-P < 1241739819 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most people don't want their fans to die < 1241739820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*the < 1241739829 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh? < 1241739835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1241739836 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_< < 1241739843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please tell me you know what I meant. < 1241739879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: the spacers are the screws that come with your case that you attach so your mobo doesn't touch the case < 1241739898 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't even have a case yet < 1241739902 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know < 1241739904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean when you get it : < 1241739905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1241739910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was just a joke since i've known one or two cases where people have fried mobos by not putting the spacers on < 1241739915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one guy did it _thrice_ < 1241740018 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wtf < 1241740024 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now newegg has a problem with my credit card < 1241740033 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: well that'd explain why it took "so long" < 1241740036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's their problem < 1241740122 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh i put in the wrong billing address < 1241740128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lawl < 1241740175 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now it prompts me to change it but won't let me... < 1241740192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: wat? < 1241740345 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmmm < 1241740523 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what do you think tuomov would do if I took his code and blatantly violated the license :-)