00:00:06 -!- chromakode has quit (Connection timed out). 00:00:47 bsmntbombgirl: btw, you might wanna memtest sometime 00:00:54 since 12gb is a loooot 00:01:19 * pikhq memtests whenever he obtains a new motherboard, CPU, or RAM... 00:01:34 pikhq: I would memtest, but it takes houuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuurs. 00:01:43 ehird, let it run overnight.. 00:01:59 Sure, I probably will sometime with the new box. 00:02:11 All my other computers just aren't quiet enough to leave on overnight though ;-) 00:02:16 Yes, even this one. I have bat ears. 00:02:36 It's been worth the effort in the past. 00:02:37 ehird, I have separate bedroom :D 00:02:59 AnMaster: Unfortunately, cramped architecture dictates. 00:03:02 ehird, or leave it on over-day and read a book / go outside? 00:03:11 What is this "book"? 00:03:13 (my current motherboard has a *memory slot* that causes errors) 00:03:17 Wait, "outside"? 00:03:20 Out ... side? 00:03:22 How can you be out of a side? 00:03:26 That makes no sense. 00:03:39 ehird, You know what a kindle is right? 00:03:52 ehird, the Amazon thing 00:03:57 Ooh! Something to do with a fire? ...In the amazon? 00:04:03 what 00:04:14 to kindle (third-person singular simple present kindles, present participle kindling, simple past and past participle kindled) 00:04:14 (transitive) To start (a fire) or light (a torch). 00:04:15 ehird, the "ebook reader" 00:04:16 Please kindle a fire in the barbecue. 00:04:19 OH, wait 00:04:20 kindle (plural kindles) 00:04:22 (obsolete) A collective term for a group of kittens. 00:04:24 A kindle of kittens. 00:04:26 Yes! kittens! 00:04:26 That's not a Big Blue Room thing. ;) 00:04:28 haha 00:04:28 I know what kittens are. 00:04:47 Nor are books. 00:04:49 ehird, well what about wikipedia. You know what it is? Now imagine it printed on paper. 00:04:57 Out of a side, though. 00:05:02 -!- bsmntbombgirl has quit (Connection timed out). 00:05:08 AnMaster: ...Why would I kill trees? 00:05:10 ehird, paper being thin sheets made of dead wood 00:05:18 ehird, good question! 00:05:19 Poor wood... 00:05:20 :-( 00:05:27 I'm a wood vegan. 00:05:34 I don't eat wood eiter 00:05:36 either* 00:05:44 Me too!!!! 00:05:49 ... 00:05:54 * pikhq wonders what ehird's house is made of 00:05:59 pikhq: DIGITAL! 00:06:06 ... 00:06:08 No. 00:06:11 Yes. 00:06:13 My house is made of digital. 00:06:19 could be concrete... 00:06:23 That thing that keeps you seperated from the daystar? 00:06:38 ... 00:06:39 daystar? 00:06:41 Day... star? 00:06:43 Day star trek? 00:06:44 oh my 00:06:45 What? 00:06:49 a BAD case 00:07:09 ehird: Is there a door that you don't use very often? 00:07:28 Yes! Inside there is the thing that blinds you. I do not go there! 00:07:29 If so, open it. You should see the Big Blue Room. 00:07:35 ...big? How big. 00:07:45 Larger than the Internet. 00:07:46 Let me go and look... 00:07:59 Also, the day star is the thing that blinds you. 00:08:03 ehird, the thing that blinds you is called the "sun" or "day star". The former being a more common name. 00:08:11 pikhq: I looked at it but there was no light in there so I couldn't see and when I put my hand in to find a lightswitch it was cold. 00:08:24 pikhq, it is midnight in UK now I think 00:08:25 It must not be very well maintained! 00:08:25 ehird: Oh, it's not day. 00:08:28 You won't see the daystar, then. 00:08:48 This sounds like one of those fairytails. You know, Santa, Tooth Fairy, Allah, Day star... 00:08:51 *fairytales 00:08:52 You will see the nightstars. 00:09:01 unless it is clouded 00:09:02 Nightstar*s*? 00:09:05 Pull the other one! 00:09:17 They don't blind you. 00:09:30 They don't light anything either... 00:09:37 What's so special about this room anyway? 00:09:39 true 00:09:41 They are not very bright. 00:09:48 It's the original room. 00:10:04 All the other rooms were made by putting walls up in it. 00:10:10 that is because the day star is closer. 00:10:28 Original room? 00:10:36 And on the seventh day, the daystar put up some walls. Tee hee. 00:10:43 augh 00:10:50 actually, humans did 00:11:04 Because the Big Blue Room is kinda crappy. 00:11:06 Where did they get the walls from? Walls come from big buildings with walls in them. 00:11:22 ehird, and how do you think those are made 00:11:23 ehird: They made buildings. 00:11:37 AnMaster: Quantum fluctuations! 00:11:39 The roof leaks, the heater is broken, and the air conditioning hates you. 00:11:55 Oh, and sometimes very large rocks fall in. 00:12:09 What kind of architect designed that bullcrap?! 00:12:18 It wasn't designed. 00:12:27 (unless you believe some Christians) 00:12:33 pikhq: Hah, what are you gonna say? 00:12:36 A big ball of rock was flying along 00:12:40 and just turned into the big blue room? 00:12:44 This gets more ridiculous by the minute. 00:12:56 Hahah. 00:12:57 ehird, the whole existence was a freak accident. 00:13:07 -!- nooga_ has joined. 00:13:08 existence of everything that is 00:13:57 pikhq: about these rocks falling. 00:13:59 Does everybody dies? 00:14:06 No. 00:14:14 But./ 00:14:17 If rocks fall, everybody dies. 00:14:39 ehird, Most of the time the damage is localised. Only affects a small area. 00:14:54 -!- jix_ has quit ("leaving"). 00:14:55 say, a few buildings or so 00:14:58 And the Room is very, very large. 00:15:06 yeah 00:15:11 How big 00:15:30 ehird, depends on how you measure 00:15:37 You're all lunatics 00:15:40 Like scientologists 00:15:45 Bigblueroomologists 00:16:02 Approximately 510 gigameters. 00:16:15 148 gigameters of which is not water. 00:16:22 Erm. 00:16:26 Wait, it has water too? 00:16:29 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 00:16:29 Square gigameters, I mean. 00:16:30 Like, instead of floor? 00:16:32 Hahhahahahah 00:16:37 In some places, yes. 00:16:52 About 70% of its surface area, in fact. 00:16:57 ehird, um. Not exactly. Ever seen a bathtub that was lowered to the floow level? 00:17:03 ok, well as you can see i have a q6600 with a whole 65 nanometers, and its awesome. So my friend gets an e7400 and they totally rip him off. Instead of giving him 65 nanometers or more, they only give him 45, like WTH!! 00:17:03 Want to see a picture of about half of it? 00:17:03 floor* 00:17:04 So nedless to say i am pretty mad as intel is jipping my friend of his nanometers, so now his cpu will not be as good as my q6600, which is bad. Intel used to give people like a whole 130 nanometers but lately they are being very stingy and are not giving us their nanometers so our cpu's are not as good. Please help me boycott intel so they stop stealing our nanometers 00:17:09 pikhq: Suure. 00:17:17 ehird, yes or no? 00:17:22 AnMaster: Nope. 00:17:23 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/9/97/The_Earth_seen_from_Apollo_17.jpg 00:17:40 pikhq: Oh come on, obviously photoshopped; look at the smooth edges and the black background 00:17:46 Also, that white shit. 00:17:50 What the FUCK is that meant to be? 00:17:51 Clouds. 00:17:53 Milk‽‽‽‽‽ 00:17:53 Yeah, the reflections are all wrong. 00:17:56 "Clouds"? 00:18:00 hahaha 00:18:00 The cloud is the internet, noobcaek. 00:18:07 Everyone knows that. 00:18:08 And that's the Earth. 00:18:12 A sphere. 00:18:16 Earth. Sounds like "Xenu". 00:18:16 In space. 00:18:21 Space. 00:18:23 Space of what. 00:18:32 ah. This gets complex... 00:18:49 Yeah, theology always does when you poke at the obvious flaws. 00:18:52 ehird, you know space games? 00:18:54 The Big Blue Room, the Earth, is a planet. 00:19:08 AnMaster: That's sci-fi. L Ron Hubbard was a sci-fi writer too and he founded scientology 00:19:09 ehird, think "like that, without the aliens (as far as we know)" 00:19:09 It is a very, very large rock with things on it. 00:19:11 coincidence? i think not 00:19:23 pikhq: I was joking about the flying rock, goddamn! 00:19:25 It is in orbit around the "Sun", the daystar. 00:19:26 You're all bananas! 00:19:31 fizzie: you don't believe this crap do you? 00:19:34 ehird, where do you think they got the idea to space invaders‽ 00:19:38 This is a gigantic mass of burning hydrogen. 00:19:43 AnMaster: star trek! 00:19:55 ehird, and where did they get the idea for star trek 00:20:00 pikhq: You're a dipshit. Hydrogen is a gas. 00:20:00 ehird: The evidence suggests that this is true. 00:20:07 Yes. 00:20:08 pikhq: How come it isn't flying everywhere? 00:20:14 Gravity. 00:20:15 AnMaster: The creators's mind? 00:20:20 pikhq: Gravity makes things go down. 00:20:23 Not hang about. 00:20:26 In "space" 00:20:33 ehird, you think they could make up something that stupid? 00:20:43 No, it makes things be attracted to other mass. 00:20:51 Which tends to form a sphere. 00:20:57 AnMaster: Einstein said that only two things are infinite: 00:21:00 Actually, Gravity is uncomputable. 00:21:05 the universe and human stupidity, and that he wasn't sure about the former. 00:21:06 Would have been the right answer. 00:21:09 I don't know what he means by "universe", but... 00:21:10 :P 00:21:21 ehird, the universe is the same as this space! 00:21:27 so bingo! 00:21:31 Oh, don't drag Einstein into your religion. 00:21:51 He described pretty well how gravity works. 00:21:56 By bending spacetime. 00:22:01 ;) 00:22:02 yep 00:22:03 That was *fiction*. 00:22:09 C'mon, "spacetime"? right out of star trek. 00:22:16 Ah, but we've observed it. 00:22:25 You kooky cultists, maybe. 00:22:52 ehird, yes, we believe in science! 00:23:00 'sthat the name of your religion? 00:23:02 "Sci-Ence"? 00:23:04 Experiments with the space shuttle, among other things. 00:23:05 no 00:23:22 ehird, Einstein style science. 00:23:25 that sort of stuff. 00:23:29 pfft. 00:23:33 pikhq: "space shuttle"? 00:23:35 Good god. 00:23:42 ehird, you missed out on that? 00:23:45 poor you 00:23:47 It goes into orbit around the sun. 00:23:48 Earth. 00:23:53 *Earth*, not the sun. 00:24:01 You can't even keep your facts straight, I see. 00:24:03 yeah, the Earth is in the orbit around the Sun 00:24:12 so in fact it also orbits the sun 00:24:13 That, among other things, is how we have pictures of the Earth. 00:24:19 because it orbits the orbiting Earth 00:24:23 photoshopped. 00:24:36 ... In the 60s? 00:24:42 actually yes it is modified. The image was turned upside down. That was all. 00:24:44 yeah. 00:24:45 :P 00:24:55 (didn't you know?) 00:25:18 Sorry, that specific picture was from 1972. 00:25:27 Before UNIX, still. 00:25:28 ;) 00:26:49 not before epoch though. Though epoch was before UNIX. 00:27:02 Yeah. 00:28:04 time started in 1970 :P 00:28:35 coppro: my music collection disagrees. 00:28:49 * pikhq listens to the Beatles 00:29:33 ehird: Go to the Big Blue Room sometime during the day. 00:29:42 Heh. 00:29:42 At 0, the world was created with an artificial history, obviously 00:29:43 As if. 00:29:57 Observe the existence of things like "the Sun". 00:30:00 -!- upyr[emacs] has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:30:02 Then do the same at night. 00:30:08 Observe the plentiful stars and the moon. 00:30:18 Come back and we'll talk again. ;) 00:30:29 ehird, space shuttle mounted on launch platform: http://antwrp.gsfc.nasa.gov/apod/image/0905/shuttlepredawn_danforth_big.jpg The Space Shuttle is the white thing with the half-hidden text "NASA" and "Atlantis" (the name of this specific shuttle, no idea why the named it that) on it. 00:30:47 AnMaster: Nice render. POV-Ray? 00:30:56 ehird, photo. 00:31:00 Camera. 00:31:03 Yeah, uh, no. 00:31:06 That is no room. 00:31:14 ehird, what is it then? 00:31:16 Hmm 00:31:19 Might be a film studio 00:31:21 But probably a render 00:31:21 You can also fly to Cape Canaveral and see it for yourself. 00:31:23 It's all too perfect. 00:31:28 pikhq: fly? 00:31:31 You believe your adherents can FLY?! 00:31:35 HAHAHAHAHHAHA 00:31:36 HAHAHAHAHA 00:31:37 um no 00:31:37 AHAHAHAHAA 00:31:39 aircraft 00:31:39 AJHAHAHHAAHAGA 00:31:41 AHAHAHAHAA 00:31:44 Aircraft. 00:31:46 Pffft. 00:31:51 as in powered vehicle 00:31:52 Not without help. We have machines that fly. 00:31:56 We sit inside them. 00:32:17 works by using wings to produce lift. 00:32:25 It's a very good way of moving about in the Big Blue Room, since it's very, very large... 00:32:30 (simplified) 00:32:46 And even going 200mph, it takes hours to get places. 00:32:57 ehird, and the room is so large you CAN'T see it is a room- 00:33:01 s/-/./ 00:33:03 * ehird snrk 00:34:02 ehird where do you think I am? 00:34:17 Uh. 00:34:19 Dunno. 00:34:31 I'm not in your house. 00:36:59 ehird, try going out the door you don't use a lot tomorrow 00:37:04 why 00:37:33 -!- puzzlet has joined. 00:37:41 ehird, because you missing something that is way better than inside. 00:37:54 ehird, it may take a while to adjust to the light level 00:38:03 pikhq: is AnMaster part of a weird sect of your cult? 00:38:08 that _likes_ the B.B.R.? 00:38:16 ehird, also don't your house have windows? Holes in the walls. With glass in them 00:38:26 ehird: There are pleasant things in the B.B.R. 00:38:28 Sure; they display generated sci-fi scenery. 00:38:31 Such as other people. 00:38:38 And they don't generate anything. 00:38:43 They are just transparent. 00:38:46 yep. 00:38:46 Sure. 00:38:49 Suuuuuuuure. 00:39:07 ehird, that is what you will reach when you go through that door. 00:39:15 Look out the window, then go out the door. 00:39:17 lol 00:39:21 Should be the same thing. 00:39:42 well, you might have to go around the house to reach the right window of course 00:39:50 if the door is in the opposite end 00:40:02 (or similiar) 00:40:10 similar* 00:49:19 -!- inurinternet has quit (No route to host). 00:49:47 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 00:52:13 night 01:06:33 -!- darthnuri has joined. 01:07:29 -!- darthnuri has changed nick to inurinternet. 01:22:26 haaa 01:22:39 my #define maping tool is awesome 01:23:04 added 'perspective' and various types of nodes 01:58:49 -!- 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joined. 04:45:43 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 04:47:40 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 04:48:34 -!- puzzlet has joined. 04:49:19 -!- pikhq has joined. 04:51:35 -!- pikhq has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 04:53:32 -!- rixius has quit (Success). 04:54:34 http://mathworld.wolfram.com/PizzaTheorem.html 05:03:14 http://kylegabler.com/WorldOfGooSoundtrack/ 05:51:06 -!- oerjan has joined. 06:02:44 -!- asiekierka has joined. 06:02:47 Hi there 06:02:54 hi 06:06:17 ok, finally finished my putc routine for chars 00-7F 06:06:40 so this means I can finally move to other things 06:06:45 like getc 06:08:10 -!- pikhq has joined. 06:20:47 hi 06:24:06 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 06:24:09 sup fags 06:25:17 hello 06:27:45 finally got this new computer running an os 06:28:52 I just hope it's not C64-DTV running CELF 06:28:53 :P 06:29:49 -!- darthnuri has joined. 06:30:13 wtf is that 06:30:37 -!- coppro has quit (Remote 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54 (Connection reset by peer)). 11:07:26 -!- Deewiant has joined. 11:52:03 -!- nooga has joined. 12:34:34 hi ais523 (no response first time around, was just before the timeout) 12:34:37 hi 12:49:06 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 12:49:06 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 12:59:22 hm 13:01:16 -!- asiekierka has joined. 13:01:18 Hi 13:01:32 Codename CELF progress: putc and puts are completely finished! woo-hoo! 13:01:39 Current task: do getc 13:05:41 Well, for PUTC, the only thing I am required to do is to do TAB (#09) 13:05:48 I can do BEL though (#07) 13:16:06 asiekierka sounds polish :D 13:16:23 what's CELF? 13:30:29 -!- darthnuri has joined. 13:32:13 nooga: because it IS polish 13:32:14 doh 13:32:32 LOL :D 13:32:42 and i AM polish 13:32:48 to fajnie, ja tez :P 13:32:50 nom 13:34:03 better to go prv ;p 13:34:11 yup 13:46:15 -!- Deewiant_ has joined. 13:46:24 -!- Deewiant has quit ("Changing server"). 13:47:36 -!- Deewiant_ has changed nick to Deewiant. 13:57:24 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 13:57:30 -!- puzzlet has joined. 14:17:10 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:17:35 i'll have a guinness, please 14:26:01 -!- lereah_ has quit ("Leaving"). 14:28:02 wtf 14:28:27 free space on my HD shrinks constantly 14:28:51 but TimeMachine is disabled 14:30:38 -!- MizardX has quit ("changing server"). 14:31:22 -!- MizardX has joined. 14:40:08 -!- puzzlet has quit (Remote closed the connection). 14:40:12 -!- puzzlet has joined. 14:41:51 -!- fizzie has quit (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 14:41:51 -!- fungot has quit (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 14:44:34 -!- fungot has joined. 14:44:34 -!- fizzie has joined. 15:12:59 Ļ∑óę󮳹…ą„żźłźźĶ∑󙼀–™Ľ€• 15:17:21 ÿøù ðöñ`þ ßâý 15:31:12 ^ ķą†ę īó¨ 15:39:02 -!- upyr[emacs] has joined. 15:50:55 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:00:44 -!- jix has joined. 16:01:27 13:28 nooga: wtf 16:01:28 13:28 nooga: free space on my HD shrinks constantly 16:01:29 13:28 nooga: but TimeMachine is disabled 16:01:32 timemachine doesn't back up to your hd 16:01:43 then what it does? 16:02:07 nooga: backs up to an external Time Capsule drive. 16:02:17 there is no such drive 16:02:22 so? 16:02:25 i'm telling you what it dose. 16:02:26 does 16:02:36 so my free space shrinks without any reason 16:02:42 no 16:02:46 it shrinks for a different reason 16:03:00 yesterday i've had 88GB free, now i have 86GB 16:03:11 swap space, temporary files. 16:03:14 and i don't remember downloading/creating something 2GB big 16:03:28 the OS will manage them itself 16:07:41 nooga: don't worry, be happy 16:09:15 Google is lagging... 16:09:39 sure 16:16:49 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 16:17:58 darn right it is 16:19:16 oerjan: is that a joke :p 16:19:54 no, i just wanted to google something 16:20:17 yeah 16:20:19 my poor gmail, too 16:21:31 -!- darthnuri has changed nick to inurinternet. 16:21:41 inurinternet: who are you? :p 16:22:10 heh, if that realname is correct, that's quite a good nickname pun 16:22:16 a sith, obviously 16:22:18 heh, I just looked it up 16:24:38 um 16:24:41 google is fast here? 16:24:53 now it is 16:24:57 ah 16:25:01 hmm or maybe not 16:25:04 it seems to be very sporadic 16:26:31 it's currently refusing to load here 16:26:44 it indefinitely loads and sometimes finishes for me 16:26:53 the norwegian version, naturally, i don't know how much that matters 16:27:50 although i did get in a couple searches 16:27:50 85GB 16:27:53 !bf_txtgen Test for optimiser. 16:27:55 164 ++++++++++++++[>++++++>++++++++>++>+++<<<<-]>.+++++++++++++++++.>+++.+.>++++.<<+.>-----.+++.>.<---.+.++++.<+++.++++.----.>-.<----.>-.>>++++.<----------------------. [329] 16:27:59 nooga: stop sweating over it 16:28:09 the OS can manage some temp ;-) 16:28:09 something eatc my drive! 16:28:16 eats 16:28:31 if it keeps going down just rm -rf /tmp/* and reboot or something 16:28:44 -!- FireFly has joined. 16:28:55 * oerjan swats FireFly -----### 16:29:35 * ehird arrests oerjan for child abuse (unless FireFly is an adult, in which case disregard this) 16:29:38 :> 16:29:46 FireFly: stockholm syndrome! 16:29:57 * oerjan swats ehird in a lurid way -----### 16:30:00 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 16:30:16 Hm 16:30:43 "The syndrome is named after the Norrmalmstorg robbery of Kreditbanken at Norrmalmstorg in Stockholm" 16:31:00 you swedes still have google don't you 16:31:00 :-( 16:31:09 Yep :> 16:31:15 robbery? i thought it was a terrorist attack... 16:31:17 FUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUCK YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU! 16:31:29 Need...google...juice 16:31:35 I don't like the combo of swedish and english :\ 16:31:55 darn, switching to google.se doesn't help me... 16:32:01 oerjan: it's ze routing 16:32:06 FireFly: swedish sounds like joke english 16:32:06 -!- ais523 has quit (Connection reset by peer). 16:32:09 Kreditbanken! 16:32:14 Heh 16:32:17 It's the bank-en of [kc]redit! 16:33:26 * oerjan crosses his fingers for the space observatory 16:34:27 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 16:36:04 -!- ais523 has joined. 16:38:39 ehird, still issues with google in UK? 16:38:50 yes. 16:38:56 everywhere but sweden, it seems. 16:38:57 works like a charm here! 16:38:58 cf oerjan 16:39:08 what about US? 16:40:43 ehird, UK + Norway != Everywhere :P 16:41:03 yes, but i'm pretty sure it's not two isolated cases 16:41:07 so probably a portion of europe 16:41:12 and maybe elsewhere 16:42:46 wait 16:42:51 sf.net changed design again!? 16:42:58 what, again again? 16:42:59 or just again 16:43:00 yeah 16:43:02 err 16:43:11 ehird, "since I last looked" 16:43:16 hmm 16:43:17 which was, uh 3 or 4 days ago 16:43:21 * ehird looks up a project to see if that changedt oo 16:43:50 they have 16:43:56 heh 16:44:01 the death throws of an obsolete service 16:44:13 redesigners redesigners redesigners redesigners redesigners redesigners 16:46:07 obsolete? Shitty yes, but not obsolete. Since lots of projects still use sf.net... Then "obsolete" must mean that you consider the concept of such sites outdated? 16:46:11 which again seems strange 16:46:34 sf.net itself had its time... 16:46:41 but I don't think its model is useful 16:46:48 some of its services, certainly 16:47:01 regardless of the model, there's no question its popularity for new projects is dwindling... 16:48:26 ehird, that is because of the constant redesigns IMO :P 16:48:38 oh, it happened before the design 16:48:42 well, at least it is probably part of the reason. 16:48:48 -!- ais523_ has joined. 16:48:51 ehird, before which redesign? 16:48:54 ais523_, wb 16:48:56 AnMaster: the first major one in ever 16:49:04 from the gigantic sidebars, orange-ball logo etc 16:49:05 ais523_, and have you noticed sf.net resigned again? 16:49:08 to the web 2.0y one 16:49:11 redesigned* 16:49:14 AnMaster: no, I never visit it 16:49:17 at least, not deliberately 16:49:19 ah 16:49:25 See? ;-) 16:49:27 ais523_, how comes? 16:49:28 it's not that I'm avoiding it 16:49:34 just that I have no reason to go there 16:49:37 -!- ais523 has quit (Nick collision from services.). 16:49:39 -!- ais523_ has changed nick to ais523. 16:49:50 indeed. Only reason I had to go there today was to comment on a bug report. 16:50:16 urgh, sf's issue tracker system 16:50:19 it's almost as bad as their forums 16:50:57 ehird, and? 16:51:08 you just reminded me of it:) 16:51:12 * :) 16:51:28 ehird, actually, the issue tracker used to be worse. 16:51:38 they made it slightly less bad recently 16:51:42 yes, but it's still awful 16:51:46 and the forums have always been that bad 16:52:09 they have forums? 16:52:20 AnMaster: for projects, yep 16:52:23 I see 16:52:24 some even use them 16:52:32 go to a project page, find the forums 16:52:37 they're truly awful 16:52:42 oerjan: how to say "don't run away" in norwegian? ;d 16:55:10 ikke løp din vei 16:55:57 or, ikke løp vekk 17:07:11 -!- Slereah_ has joined. 17:13:51 -!- BeholdMyGlory has left (?). 17:23:06 -!- Slereah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 17:27:40 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:34:42 wow, sun will sell you Unix-style keyboards 17:35:52 http://www.sun.com/desktop/products/peripherals/keyboard/ 17:37:17 okay, the first comment here is a bit odd: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ibZaxgnBsaU 17:37:41 'Tis music to his genitals indeed. 17:37:44 it's just baroque, people... 17:38:03 http://www.youtube.com/user/bubukaka5 17:38:06 He is indeed an odd one. 17:38:10 3219joejonas (1 week ago) 17:38:10 look I'm only going to say this.................. when you get sick and your in a hospital dieing REMEMBER WHAT you said and then think again!!!! 17:38:13 And Just Maybe You get out OK! But As long as you wannabe Canadian self don't stop acting like a jerk. aren't go to get no respect.....Just bcuz ur from Canada don't mean anything...wow Ur Canadian 17:38:16 so Wat , but there r going to be Black,White Or even Mexicans(wat ever u called them they are people like u and me) trying to save Ur life,working they butts off for you and all you can do is talk about crap. 17:38:19 Just Remember. 17:38:32 hah 17:38:44 PEDRO USADO CONDOM QUANDO ENCULO PORCINA POR FAVOR ! 17:39:02 and... wtf about the Alicia Keys comment 17:39:15 he ends it with 'no offense' 17:39:34 :D 17:44:20 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ttW3gJ7Uun0 no o o 17:44:56 wow that song is crap 17:45:06 yea 17:45:18 it looped on some itunes radio 17:45:30 wholenight 17:45:31 :D 17:45:48 -!- fizzie has quit (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 17:45:48 -!- fungot has quit (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 17:50:09 -!- upyr[emacs] has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:50:57 -!- olsner has joined. 18:16:19 i wonder how long till 160GB X25-M prices go down 18:16:26 (A: months) 18:18:41 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving"). 18:19:00 is it in theory safe to move a known constant output across a seek in bf? that is: other code here [>] [-]+++, which turns into "seek, set 3, output(3)" which is then sorted to "seek, output(3), set 3" 18:19:11 potentially I guess it isn't safe 18:19:16 AnMaster: how is that not safe 18:19:18 of course it's safe 18:19:24 ehird, if the seek never hits any set cell 18:19:29 the behaviour will differ 18:19:34 AnMaster: you handle that in the seek part 18:19:40 ehird, eh? 18:19:51 AnMaster: if the seek never finds a cell, it runs forever 18:19:54 ehird, I might not know if it will hit any set cell yet at compile time 18:19:55 so the other instructions aren't executed 18:19:58 and thus don't execute 18:20:12 "seek, set 3, output(3)" which is then sorted to "seek, output(3), set 3" 18:20:16 yes 18:20:17 that sorting is perfectly fine 18:20:33 ehird, but my question was, is it then safe to move the output across the seek 18:21:01 no 18:21:06 right 18:22:23 ;f 18:22:29 AnMaster: how are you optimizing [>>] 18:22:42 for(;*p;p+=2); ? 18:22:48 that's the best you can do, really 18:23:01 ehird, into a seek node. How that is output depends on the backend. 18:23:14 "For as long as I can recall, ATI/AMD video cards have typically had decent support in Linux" 18:23:19 Linux users can't agree on ANYTHING :-) 18:23:22 ehird, currently the C backend translates it to while(*p) p+=stride; 18:23:42 but could be changed into a for loop 18:23:52 AnMaster: same code 18:23:59 I really haven't spent much time on making the backend itself output the best possible code yet. 18:24:13 anyway I'm trying to figure out optimal sorting. 18:24:24 a thing i have learned over the past few days: the 2D/3D hardware acceleration stack for Xorg is a bloody mess 18:24:24 the shifter code is getting messy with special cases. 18:24:32 so I'm making a loop up table with conditions 18:24:36 does youtube work for any of you? 18:24:37 AnMaster: you just need to code one thing: 18:24:39 cuz it doesn't work for me 18:24:40 :P 18:24:49 well 18:24:49 AnMaster: "things that may or may not terminate are sort blockers" 18:24:52 the site gives a 404 18:24:54 asiekierka: google is being the laggy 18:25:01 well 18:25:01 not now 18:25:01 well 18:25:03 yt works for me 18:25:07 ehird, um no, you can't move an out across an out for example. but you can move an add (which changes a different cell) across an out 18:25:09 google loads for me, youtube does not load 18:25:22 AnMaster: ok, alternative definition: 18:25:23 wait 18:25:25 i think it works now 18:25:28 AnMaster: well 18:25:29 no 18:25:33 AnMaster: my rule still works 18:25:36 just specialcase output too 18:25:44 but "things that may or may not terminate are sort blockers" + side effect handling 18:25:48 catches everything 18:26:13 ehird, and I move {out. offset = 2, constant_to_add = 0}, {add, offset = 2, value = -2} across so you have: {add, offset = 2, value = -2} {out. offset = 2, constant_to_add = 2} 18:26:24 this is because often you can merge those add 18:26:25 like 18:26:29 !bf_txtgen abcde 18:26:31 47 +++++++++++[>+++++++++>+>><<<<-]>--.+.+.+.+.>-. [206] 18:26:39 like that. You can merge those adds 18:26:51 ehird, so there are lots of special handling cases needed. 18:27:16 and you can move set across add only if it has a different offset. 18:27:27 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 18:27:29 (the combiner pass will merge them if they have same) 18:27:40 nos 18:27:41 :O 18:28:03 (either, add, set into a set, since the add is a dead store; or for set, add change to the value to set) 18:28:16 can >><<<< be optimized to << ? 18:28:27 nooga, combiner pass would do that 18:28:56 anyway I'm working on making the shift-type look up table atm 18:30:48 18:27 AnMaster: (the combiner pass will merge them if they have same) 18:30:54 then always do the shifting step last 18:30:57 = no special case 18:31:08 ehird, um... what? 18:31:12 >_< 18:31:17 ++>-<++ 18:31:26 so? 18:31:29 shifting or combining first :P 18:31:30 you said 18:31:35 you decide 18:31:43 (1) If they have different offsets, you can shift them. 18:31:50 (2) If they don't, the combiner will merge them. 18:31:58 If (2) happens, you don't have to deal with it in (1) because you don't know. 18:32:00 ehird, yes, but shifter calculates the offset when it shifts > forward. 18:32:01 So always do (1) after (2) 18:32:04 and you can avoid a special case. 18:32:18 ehird, there are other special cases that you can exploit. 18:32:26 yes 18:32:28 but that saves one 18:33:00 ehird, and I run all the optimiser passes in a loop until tree changes no more. 18:33:13 yes, so run (1) last, ie the shifter, in the loop 18:33:15 so all passes needs to be able to deal with output from later passes. 18:33:20 -!- tombom_ has joined. 18:33:24 ib_opt_simple_loops, ib_opt_combine, 18:33:24 ib_opt_cleanup, ib_opt_shift, 18:33:24 ib_analyse_loops_simple, ib_analyse_loops_access, 18:33:24 ib_opt_init_mem 18:33:28 is what I have currently 18:33:34 sorry for indention mess up when pasting 18:33:51 and there are missing passes 18:34:35 like loop->if and polynomiser. That is because the loop access analyser needs more work. 18:34:37 AnMaster: ok, so you don't need the special case 18:34:38 because 18:34:40 they ARE different 18:34:45 otherwise the combiner would have got them 18:34:47 and merged them away 18:35:05 ehird, only if they were directly after each other at that stage. 18:35:15 well, true 18:35:19 * ehird shrug 18:36:22 decompiling sadol to mid-level C would be cool ;d 18:36:48 Sweet! By RAID-0ing two X25-M 80GB disks, I can get the RAID-0 performance improvements and also save one cent. 18:36:51 (over the 160GB) 18:37:00 Of course, I'm leery of software RAID... 18:39:09 -!- tombom_ has quit ("Peace and Protection 4.22.2"). 18:40:29 ehird, one cent? hahah 18:40:34 yep! 18:40:41 two 80s: $629.98 18:40:45 a 160: $629.99 18:40:52 who says you can't have your eat and cake it too? 18:41:56 AnMaster: Today on Marketdroid Channel: 18:42:12 ? 18:42:12 "Super RAID-0 performance, only $-0.01!" 18:42:15 hah 18:42:34 ehird, software RAID puts a larger load on the CPU though 18:42:36 ofc, two drives are more likely to fail than one, but it doesn't exactly matter too much if an OS drive fails 18:42:43 AnMaster: isn't it very minimal for RAID-0? 18:42:52 ehird, Not sure 18:42:56 AnMaster: besides, iirc some mobos have onboard RAID nowadays 18:43:00 it'll be crappy, but enough for RAID-0 18:43:12 after all, RAID-0 isn't even redundant! 18:43:55 some? 18:44:03 I thought most had it for years 18:44:10 well, I wasn't too sure 18:44:11 but yeah 18:44:27 both mine and my old one have/had it. Yet both only have/had 2 ram slots. 18:44:35 you always tie shit in :-) 18:44:40 tie? 18:44:47 yes? 18:45:07 in fact. change that question to be for the whole line 18:45:12 it didn't make any sense to me 18:45:20 AnMaster: to "tie foo in" is to make a roundabout conversation path to make reference to foo when the topic isn't really related 18:45:22 each word did, just not the whole 18:45:23 in this case, at least 18:45:29 ah 18:45:30 it's more generic than that, but that's what it means in this context 18:45:43 aha 18:45:53 -!- jix_ has joined. 18:46:34 question about sata 18:46:46 it's synchronous, isn't it? 18:46:54 that is, only one request at a time 18:48:48 what's typedef foo bar, baz; ? 18:48:59 nooga: invalid? 18:49:01 or 18:49:04 typedef foo as both bar and ba 18:49:04 z 18:49:06 that is bar = foo 18:49:08 and baz = foo 18:49:11 hm 18:49:18 AnMaster: apparently onboard raid is just software raid. 18:49:21 it's in WinNT.h :D 18:49:24 chromakode: Timezones! Tiiiimezones! :P 18:49:35 GregorR: wait, how can you know chromakode IRL if different timezones 18:49:38 ehird, then why "on board" 18:49:40 MS specific? 18:49:42 * ehird 's blinds mown 18:49:43 hm 18:49:45 nooga: dunno 18:49:49 AnMaster: i don't know 18:49:53 maybe it has a mini processor doing it 18:49:54 or something 18:50:02 * ehird looks for a cheap raid card on newegg 18:50:17 ehird, actually I have a BIOS menu for the RAID. But the manual says it needs Windows 2000, XP or Vista 18:50:20 ehird: We know each other from undergrad, now he's still in undergrad and I'm in grad school. 18:50:31 ehird: Although, I just realized that the problem wasn't timezones, but that I was on a plane :P 18:50:34 GregorR: MATHEMATICALLY SUPERIOR TO CHROMAKODE 18:50:49 We were not the same grade :P 18:50:57 MATHEMATICALLY! 18:51:25 ehird, if you want multiple pending requests to drive you want SCSI, SAS or Firewire iirc. 18:51:36 (but don't quote me on that!) 18:51:37 hey, a raid 0/1/jbod controller with 61 reviews @ 5 eggs for $139.99, looks promis— FUCK IT'S SATA 1 18:51:43 Well, Gregor is now in Oregon again. l'vacation. 18:51:46 and regular pci, wowz. 18:52:09 hey, a raid 0/1/jbod controller with 61 reviews @ 5 eggs for $139.99, looks promis— FUCK IT'S SATA 1 <-- yes, they make RAID cards iirc. 18:52:17 18:52:26 AnMaster: Wat? 18:53:20 Home > Computer Hardware > Hard Drives > Controllers / RAID Cards > Type[SATA ],Type[SATA / IDE ],Internal Connectors[4 x SATA II ],Internal Connectors[8 x SATA II ],Internal Connectors[16x SATA II ],Internal Connectors[12x SATA II ],Type[SATA II ],Internal Connectors[2 x SATA II ],Internal Connectors[1 x SATA II ],External Ports[8 x SATA II ],External Ports[2 x SATA II ],External Ports[4 x SATA II ],Type[SATA / SAS (Serial Attached SCSI) ],Internal Con 18:53:23 nectors[24 x SATA II ],Internal Connectors[2 x SATA II + 1 x ATA 133 ], returned 3 results. 18:53:24 ehird, "promis—" --> "Promise SuperTrak EX Series support (SCSI_STEX)" 18:53:26 it looks like mathematica code. 18:53:26 that 18:53:29 AnMaster: *groan* 18:53:32 that's just awful,. 18:53:33 *. 18:53:38 ehird, I said it was! 18:53:54 i know but 18:53:55 it's so awful 18:53:59 I'm going to have to kill you 18:54:01 sry 18:54:05 ehird, no 18:54:07 * ehird kills AnMaster 18:54:14 i wish it didn't come to this 18:54:15 i really did 18:54:17 *do 18:54:18 that doesn't work 18:54:20 LEAST DRAMATIC SLAYING EVER 18:54:23 how did you kill 18:54:25 ... 18:54:44 ehird, ^ 18:55:15 it isn't valid if you don't list how you kill :P 18:55:19 GregorR: i know 18:55:40 GregorR: it's like 18:55:52 GregorR: a gun's silencer right? 18:55:55 this is a dramatic silencer 18:55:59 for all kinds of kill types 18:56:01 very hi-tech 18:56:09 Including kill -9 18:56:15 yes, exactly 18:56:16 you do 18:56:20 $ killall -9 jews 18:56:21 and it goes 18:56:22 except I deflected the bullet 18:56:24 so it didn't work 18:56:28 * hitler does some killing 18:56:30 AnMaster: who said bullet 18:56:33 this is a dramatic silencer 18:56:36 it works on all types of kill 18:56:44 ehird, well how did you kill then 18:56:50 I asked you and you didn't reply 18:56:56 I remember a "management utility" that represented all of your processes as monsters in IIRC the Doom engine. 18:57:01 if I told you I'd have wasted the $7,000 I spent on the dramatic silencer! 18:57:04 GregorR: yep 18:57:06 Silencer? 18:57:11 http://www.cs.unm.edu/~dlchao/flake/doom/ 18:57:12 Must be > /dev/null 18:57:17 ehird, um. The kill doesn't work without a reason on IRC 18:57:18 sorry 18:57:22 AnMaster: that 18:57:28 's what it was like before dramatic silencers 18:57:31 this is a whole new world now 18:57:41 A whole new wooooooooooooooooooorld *song* 18:57:47 -!- jix has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 18:58:05 ehird, good thing I got heavy armour then. Bullet proof. 18:58:27 who said I shot you 18:58:36 ehird, " http://www.cs.unm.edu/~dlchao/flake/doom/ AnMaster: that" 18:58:41 you did 18:58:41 err 18:58:44 18:56 GregorR: I remember a "management utility" that represented all of your processes as monsters in IIRC the Doom engine. 18:58:50 i meant to highlight GregorR 18:58:56 no 18:58:56 wait 18:59:00 18:57 ehird: AnMaster: that 18:59:00 18:57 ehird: 's what it was like before dramatic silencers 18:59:02 AnMaster: 18:59:06 it was a mis-enter 18:59:10 ehird, so the kill is invalid 18:59:14 ... what 19:00:08 you can't just kill, you have to kill with something, like a weapon, or blunt trauma (possibly fist) 19:00:12 or whatever 19:00:18 dramatic silencer. 19:00:22 ehird, not valid. 19:00:24 keep up with the new irc tech. 19:00:44 AnMaster: and creating your own fire poker as a magical oerjan-style weapon out of the blue is invalid too, but you insisted it worked :) 19:01:15 ehird, a silencer itself can't kill, unless you you use it as a blunt weapon, throwing it against the victim or using it to bash the victim or whatever. 19:01:33 AnMaster: you misunderstand 19:01:37 a silencer silences the sound of a gun 19:01:41 yep 19:01:43 I know that 19:01:46 a dramatic silencer silences the record of any kill whatsoever on IRC 19:01:47 wapon is gay 19:01:57 it cost me $7k, dammit. 19:01:57 gentlemans use word 19:02:04 Wapon is gay. 19:02:05 Deep. 19:02:26 ehird, they recalled them. Didn't you know? Because it turned out they not only silenced the kill, they made it never happen. 19:02:28 Bad luck. 19:02:39 No they didn't. ← assertion technology 19:03:24 SYBA SD-LP-PEX2IR PCI Express SATA II Controller Card - Retail 19:03:25 Internal Connectors: 2 x SATA II 19:03:26 RAID: Supported Raid 0, 1 (optional) Raid 10, 5 are supported, if drives are connected to a Port Multiplier 19:03:29 Assertion failed: " No they didn't. ← assertion technology" in channel "#esoteric". 19:03:29 $18.99 19:03:31 ↑ yay 19:03:44 bbk 19:03:44 ehird: I am not deep. 19:03:46 bbl* 19:07:30 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16816103105 ah, this looks nice 19:07:50 at http://www.cs.unm.edu/~dlchao/flake/doom/ what is the "BFG" mentioned 19:07:54 I have never played doom 19:08:04 AnMaster: the Big Fucking Gun. 19:08:06 Weapon number 7, the most powerful in the game. 19:08:07 It shoots giant gobs of plasma. 19:08:23 ehird, um. That sounds like a god mode weapon? 19:08:28 with that name too 19:08:37 AnMaster: It doesn't kill everything in one shot, iirc, but it's damn powerful. 19:08:41 ah 19:08:43 Of course, it's hard to get. 19:08:48 Well, relatively. 19:08:50 No, it doesn't. 19:08:56 right 19:08:58 And yes, relatively. 19:09:00 :-P 19:09:08 the "hard to get" like "you can only get it after the boss you would have needed it against" hard? 19:09:21 No. Not that hard. 19:09:24 ah 19:09:24 AnMaster: it also has limited ammo. 19:09:40 Vanilla Doom is so easy, you don't need it at all :-P 19:09:51 I can't think of any shooting weapon that would have infinite ammo 19:09:55 at least not in real life 19:10:05 ... I can't think of anything infinite IRL apart from the universe. 19:10:34 ehird, um we don't know that iirc. It could be "huge but finite" iirc 19:10:49 We don't "know" anything. 19:10:56 but I'm no expert on topology. 19:11:47 ehird, I'm using the word "know" here as in: "the evidence is inconclusive, more research needed" 19:12:07 which is a gross misuse of the exact meaning of "know" indeed! 19:12:18 Things I know: 19:12:20 true 19:12:43 and even that's with the caveat "... as long as there aren't contradictions" 19:12:43 that's all? 19:12:49 heh 19:15:17 that doom process interface... The implementation has some major of issues (like processes attacking the sysadmin; though it isn't clear if they only attack in self defence). But with some work I think it could actually work! 19:16:20 It'd work best on a fun server where everyone is a sysadmin. 19:16:36 Mutually untrusting sysadmins is a huge problem on a non-play system. 19:16:38 ehird, believe me, co-admining a server is messy enough! 19:16:40 -!- fizzie has joined. 19:16:49 even with trust 19:16:59 Geeks aren't the most sociable 19:17:03 people trying to solve the issue at the same time, from different parts of the world 19:17:25 Hmfh. Seems that orwell.freenode.net's (the FI server) not even trying to get back online. 19:17:58 anyway: there are some processes that must never be killed, no matter what. Examples: init. the fake processes of the kernel, possibly syslog. 19:18:10 brb phone 19:18:29 what happens if you kill init? 19:19:33 "Kernel panic: Attempted to kill init!" At least I've seen something like that. 19:20:05 So have I, but only when booting 19:20:24 I wonder if the message is accurate and it triggers on the attempt, and thus init is immortal 19:20:36 "Note that 'init' is a special process: it doesn't get signals it doesn't want to handle. Thus you cannot kill init even with a SIGKILL even by mistake." 19:20:52 Aye, thought something of the kind. 19:20:53 That's in arch/{a,lot,of,things}/signal.c. 19:21:04 fizzie: Mommy says I'm speshul and don't need to listen to angry signals I don't wanna 19:21:14 Killing init is like dividing by zero. 19:21:44 # kill -9 init 19:21:50 zsh: floating point exception kill 19:21:56 Deewiant: Indeed it is. 19:22:05 :-D 19:22:19 In Soviet Linux, init kills you! 19:22:21 You get printk(KERN_WARNING "tried to kill init!\n"); if the OOM killer attempts accidentally to kill init. 19:22:39 Deewiant: Set up a division by zero handler that tries to kill init 19:22:45 If we can try one impossible thing, might as well try another. 19:23:05 You'll end up with something like http://halshop.files.wordpress.com/2007/03/phpw9jvl0pm.jpg 19:23:27 Inside that tunnel... init lurks. 19:23:48 Process (1/0) is init. 19:25:03 kill -9 1 indeed completes successfully but init duly ignores it. 19:25:18 More OOM killer code: p->rt.time_slice = HZ; set_tsk_thread_flag(p, TIF_MEMDIE); /* We give our sacrificial lamb high priority and access to all the memory it needs. That way it should be able to exit() and clear out its resources quickly... */ 19:25:29 ... wait. 19:25:35 the OOM killer gives its victim full access? 19:25:37 LOLWAT ^_^ 19:25:50 That's immediately before force_sig(SIGKILL, p); 19:26:05 So there's not much you can do with your high priority there. 19:26:09 Damn that OOM's one sadistic bitch. 19:35:15 -!- psygnisfive has quit (Remote closed the connection). 19:38:46 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 19:42:36 having 4 cores is fun 19:44:13 bsmntbombdood: you disabled ht eh :P 19:44:24 bsmntbombdood: is that thing running smoothly? What OS? FreeBSD? 19:44:25 no 19:44:32 freebsd right now 19:44:33 -!- fungot has joined. 19:44:36 i'm frustrated with it 19:44:42 coulda told you so 19:44:45 but why? 19:45:03 the most recent version of ion in ports or packages? from 2002 19:45:43 well, you can't ship later than $time_tuomov_adopted_crackheaded_license_forcing_them_to_update_it_4eva 19:45:47 but that was post-2002 19:45:55 now switch over to the archside >:) 19:48:01 "Linux has a NAZI theme--darwin evolution konquer. People who obsess on evolution are sick in the head. They all want to kill-off dumb people. " 19:48:55 what does darwin have to do with linux? 19:49:07 nothing whatsoever! 19:49:20 it's by the weirdo who made this shitOS: http://www.losethos.com/v506.html 19:49:26 it only runs in 64 bit real mode and you can only use 16 colours 19:49:29 and it comes with a bible application 19:49:44 quote from http://www.reddit.com/r/programming/comments/8kgvj/losethos_64bit_operating_system_v506_released_not/ 19:50:23 this is a lot of ram 19:50:29 bsmntbombdood: 12GB? 19:50:32 yes, that is a lot of ram 19:50:32 yes 19:50:36 your point? :-P 19:51:25 so i am running sort /dev/urandom for fun 19:51:39 bsmntbombdood: write a program that uses 4 threads to sort /dev/urandom 19:51:48 well, 8 if you're using crappythreading ;)))))) 19:52:08 run the same thing two times in a row - wall clock time the first run was 43.01 seconds, the second run was 43.02 seconds 19:52:36 bsmntbombdood: that's just your computer becoming obsolete. 19:52:42 little known fact is that they actually do this actively 19:52:47 your computer really was faster when you first bought it 19:53:01 love shack nananana 19:53:03 bsmntbombdood: what's your cpu/ram/disk usages? 19:53:11 my hdd usage is 1GB/h 19:53:18 what do you mean? 19:53:49 bsmntbombdood: er... what % of cpu (up to 800%) is used, how much ram is used, and what does df -h give 19:54:00 i'm curious as to how much waste there is :-P 19:54:08 top isn't reporting cpu usage like that 19:54:18 tell it to 19:54:20 ehird: http://rafb.net/p/XzzZgG24.html 19:54:24 or sth 19:54:28 with 8 threads running, cpu usage is 100%, load average is 8 19:54:28 bsmntbombdood: is it reporting 8 sep counts 19:54:35 AnMaster: too rafb.net; didn't use 19:54:43 bsmntbombdood: ah. I meant without the crazy sort :-P 19:54:43 ehird, your loss. 19:54:48 *read 19:56:09 for each proccess it reports of percentage of the cpu it's running on 19:56:21 bsmntbombdood: i meant systemwide usage 19:56:31 CPU usage: 7.11% user, 8.00% sys, 84.89% idle 19:57:03 CPU: 0.3% user, 0.0% nice, 0.1% system, 0.0% interrupt, 99.5% idle 19:57:07 not doing anything right now obviously 19:57:32 -!- fungot has quit (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 19:58:11 bsmntbombdood: what about memory? 19:58:28 (does bsd have free(1)? My system doesn't) 19:58:56 it doesn't 19:59:00 There's a memory usage report in top, though. 19:59:03 IIRC, anyway. 19:59:10 Mem: 118M Active, 419M Inact, 490M Wired, 2356K Cache, 399M Buf, 11G Free 19:59:15 fizzie: right, but does it include the "The system is reserving gigantic amounts of RAM for its nefarious purposes" 19:59:23 i'm not sure what active, intact or wired means 19:59:40 bsmntbombdood: so 0.1GB out of 12GB 19:59:41 :-P 19:59:51 (w/ 0.5GB or so reserved by the OS) 20:00:04 bsmntbombdood: how loud's it? (Since I'm getting a similar system...) 20:00:17 stock cooler is pretty loud 20:00:28 not surprised 20:00:34 htop on the university shell server says: 5348/62807MB; that's also rather a small percentage out of an absurd value. 20:00:55 but effective, mbmon says 35 degrees idle and 59 loaded 20:01:01 nice 20:01:29 you can get an i7 heastink/fan combination that's pretty silent and cools well for ~$45, iirc, but ofc that's only reasonable if it's bugging you 20:01:36 but 35 degrees idle is niice 20:01:48 and the psu i think is making a high pitched whine 20:02:04 i skimped a bit on the psu to get it in a case deal, sry 20:02:12 apparently cheap psus whine like that 20:02:18 meh, it had good reviews 20:02:41 According to 'sensors' this Athlon-X2 I have has a motherboard temperature of 39 degrees, CPU temperature of 30 degrees; while the on-CPU thermometers say 34 degrees for core 1, 36 for core 2. Not quite sure which one to believe. 20:03:29 can you measure ram temperature with anything? 20:03:44 the graphics card heatsink is really hot 20:04:00 bsmntbombdood: it's a cheap passive card... you said you didn't care about gfx cards :p 20:04:06 didn't know it was hot, though 20:04:11 oh god 20:04:17 getc finished, backspace improved... 20:04:20 ...(but not yet complete) 20:04:38 and the ram is relatively cool to the touch 20:04:46 didn't mean your ram :p 20:04:55 I was just asking anyone if there was a program to look at ram temps 20:05:01 One of my cheap-ish passive cards (7600GT/8600GT) gets really hot too. Both have rather hueg heatsinks. 20:05:11 but yeah, your ram is just a regulary ddr3 thing so it should run cool 20:06:29 and this hard drive isn't working 20:06:48 bsmntbombdood: which one 20:06:52 media or ssd? 20:06:58 the ssd is fine 20:07:20 but the media one? 20:07:29 doesn't work 20:07:33 doesn't show up in the bios 20:07:41 did you plug it in properly :p 20:08:03 .../ 20:08:28 .......................... 20:08:58 There's a Logitech "gaming keyboard" (the G19) which has a 320x240 color LCD you can watch youtube stuff on; approximately half of the net-reviews say the keyboard's running some sort of a Linux-based embedded thing, but there are no details anywhere about how it actually works. It does have an external power brick, though. (But it also has an active-powered USB hub, so there.) 20:09:31 -!- Sgeo has joined. 20:09:36 fizzie: Now that was non-sequitur! 20:09:45 Hey, it's still about hardware. 20:09:52 Toasters. 20:12:02 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit ("Lost terminal"). 20:19:05 -!- asiekierka has quit. 20:20:21 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 20:20:27 yeah pretty sure hdd is dead 20:20:46 bsmntbombdood: tell newegg :P 20:21:01 obviously 20:21:47 firefox starts up like *snaps fingers* that 20:21:58 that's what i7, DDR3 and SSD will do to you. 20:22:07 RAVAGE YOUR INSIDES 20:22:18 it actually powers the application startup by sipping your soul… 20:22:33 bsmntbombdood: start 50 firefoxes 20:23:49 wtf, don't even have seq 20:23:56 BSD userland is barren 20:24:35 * ehird shoves ftp://ftp.archlinux.org/iso/2009.02/archlinux-2009.02-ftp-x86_64.iso.torrent into bsmntbombdood's CD drive 20:24:51 lol 20:24:56 i already downloaded a debian iso 20:25:04 bsmntbombdood: debian stable? 20:25:07 enjoy your obsolescence 20:25:22 no, testing 20:25:38 testing didn't even have ext4 stable last I checked 20:25:45 tha's pretty old 20:27:14 bsmntbombdood: arch has ion3 20090110 20:27:24 :p 20:27:28 lol 20:28:05 good lord this person i'm talking to at newegg is either dumb, busy, or a really slow typer 20:28:12 Debian has "20090110-1" too. 20:28:23 Debian's 20090110 is older than Arch's. 20:28:23 Though in non-free only. 20:28:27 By pure law of nature. 20:28:41 bsmntbombdood: the debian cd you downloaded was 64bit right 20:29:06 fizzie: what version of xorg does debian have? 20:29:14 ehird: no, i'm gonna run 32 bi 20:29:19 bsmntbombdood: erm 20:29:20 with 12GB? 20:29:24 lollllllllll 20:29:33 bsmntbombdood: i guess you only want to use 4gb of it 20:29:34 Current debian-installer daily build has kernel 2.6.29-1-amd64, so I guess it should do ext4 just fine. 20:29:35 right? 20:29:43 -!- nooga has quit ("Leaving..."). 20:29:46 have fun then 20:30:27 bsmntbombdood: seriously, what? 20:30:34 32-bit os with 12gb of ram? 20:30:53 that's just the ridiculust thing I ever heard. 20:30:54 yeah, 64 bit is gay 20:31:03 * ehird facepalm 20:31:38 bsmntbombdood: you'll really regret it 20:31:41 I don't know anything about xorg versioning; as far as I know Debian-unstable doesn't follow the most bleeding-edgeist stuff there, though. xserver-xorg-core is "1.6.1", whatever it means, and xorg itself is "7.4". 20:31:55 please return your sarcasm detector to the manufacturer for a tune up 20:32:02 bsmntbombdood: oh. 20:32:03 oh 20:32:05 ah. oh. 20:32:23 (set! (embarrassment-level ehird) infinity) 20:32:30 in my defense, there are people that stupid in the world. 20:32:48 i dunno, with pae it wouldn't be that outrageuous 20:33:11 You don't get single huge process images, though. 20:33:55 yeah, you'd have to split up any large computation 20:33:57 into processes 20:34:00 which is ridiculous 20:34:21 you have to do that anyway with 4 cores 20:34:27 itt: threads 20:35:18 bsmntbombdood: btw, if you're gonna wipe the ssd to install $OS, use a tool to ATA SECURE ERASE it 20:35:28 since otherwise the blocks from the old install will stay 20:35:56 CAN I DD IF=/DEV/ZERO ? 20:36:00 err 20:36:03 bsmntbombdood: no 20:36:08 i haven't remaped caps lock yet 20:36:08 ATA SECURE ERASE is different 20:36:11 you need to use a boot disk 20:36:34 bsmntbombdood: i think intel point to a tool to do it 20:36:36 lemme look it up 20:37:08 -!- puzzlet_ has quit (Remote closed the connection). 20:37:13 -!- puzzlet has joined. 20:37:59 ...this customer service rep wished me an "eggcellent day" 20:38:00 wtf 20:38:09 ... 20:38:10 :-DDDDDDDD 20:38:49 bsmntbombdood: looking up that eraser thingy 20:38:52 easier than i thought to get them to replace it though 20:39:27 bsmntbombdood: btw, if you're installing linux... do the align thing, srsly 20:39:33 it's just a few commands and installing to LVM 20:40:12 If you are doing a clean setup of your machine and want to restore your drive to its native state you’ll have to perform a secure erase. Intel distributed a tool with the first X25-M review kits called HDD ERASE. This tool will take any SSD and free every last page on the drive. Obviously you’ll lose all of your data but your drive will be super fast again! 20:40:15 In order for HDDERASE to work you need to have your SATA controller running in Legacy IDE mode, you can select this in your BIOS. Your drive will have to be connected to one of the first four SATA ports off of the controller. 20:40:59 bsmntbombdood: Step one: make DOS bootdisk. Step two: Turn on legacy IDE shit in your BIOS. Step three: http://cmrr.ucsd.edu/people/Hughes/HDDEraseWeb.zip 20:41:21 hdparm has a "--security-erase" flag nowadays. 20:41:37 fizzie: does that just overwrite many times 20:41:39 ATA SECURE ERASE 20:41:41 is a very specific command 20:41:44 iirc 20:41:58 It's under "ATA Security Feature Set", I would hope that's what it does. 20:42:05 Hmm. 20:42:13 Well, you'd need to boot from a livecd anyway to do it. 20:42:42 Sure, and the hdparm flag is "EXPERIMENTAL AND NOT WELL TESTED. USE AT YOUR OWN RISK." 20:43:00 You might, for example, lose all your data. :p 20:43:07 :-D 20:50:26 Shouldn't look at the smartctl info, it makes me paranoidishically worrysome about the numbers I don't know how to interpret. 20:50:34 dos bootdisk? 20:50:36 fuck that 20:51:48 Well, the http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/ has hdderase included by default. 20:53:42 bsmntbombdood: i like how you'll spent $1.7k on a top-o'-the-range computer and then refuse to spend 5 minutes maintaining it :D 20:55:27 I'm not quite sure why you'd exactly have to wipe the disk, though; unless it's some sort of religious "this disk still smells like freebsd even though I made new filesystems" thing. 20:55:40 fizzie: it's how SSDs work 20:55:48 they try desperately not to reuse a block 20:56:02 and when they have no blocks left, have to do the 2ms or so rewriting process on a write 20:56:13 so you have to erase it totally to get back the blocks 20:56:34 ATA TRIM support in OSes can help, but isn't really anywhere yet 20:58:50 brb 21:01:38 -!- puzzlet_ has joined. 21:03:22 ehird, http://pastebin.com/d5f49c085 21:10:14 what I'm going to do is write a "kind of DSL" to do it. Basically a function taking pairs, which can return: false | {true, TranslatorFunction} | {sort, [Field, ...], [{Field,Field}, ...]} 21:10:25 and possibly some other variants 21:13:59 this case is suprisingly decent for the price 21:14:20 -!- puzzlet has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:17:06 ok i am going to install debian now 21:19:17 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (Remote closed the connection). 21:20:54 no! you must resist! 21:31:01 back 21:31:10 also, eurgh debian 21:31:14 why did i help him :^) 21:32:35 those debian users! 21:32:51 yeah I even offered him Arch 21:32:58 I am one of them, most regretfully. I '$ cut' my files every day in remorse 21:33:14 Gracenotes: I remember that Dasher screenshot you gave... that was the Ubuntu theme. 21:33:23 SPREADING A BIT OF DISINFORMATION ARE WE? 21:34:03 personally, I use my favorite operating system, UIND 21:34:15 I use Anonix. 21:34:32 Ubuntu is Not Debian 21:34:32 ehird, did you look at that link? 21:34:36 AnMaster: yes 21:34:41 ehird, any comments? 21:34:42 it seems logical 21:35:02 ehird, a single trivial rule won't solve that is my point 21:35:09 Gracenotes: what's that OS that the crazy jap was posting about on /prog/ saying other OSes were whores and tools and this OS was a human 21:35:14 because I used that before Anonix. 21:35:41 -!- impomatic has joined. 21:35:47 Hi :-) 21:35:57 hi 21:36:22 "At Railsconf 2009 the guys over at Phusion released Rubystein, a Wolfenstein clone written in Ruby." 21:36:26 The epitome of Ruby's speed. 21:36:32 Wolfenstein 3D. 21:37:11 Ah, not the original? 21:37:26 The original was written by the same guy who did RobotWar 21:37:41 impomatic: I refer to http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wolfenstein_3D 21:37:48 Someone ported it to Ruby, which is funny because Ruby is slow. 21:38:52 impomatic: he didn't do robotwar 21:38:55 he just ported it to the apple II 21:39:07 "Warner died in March 2004 after a long battle with kidney disease." 21:39:22 ehird, http://pastebin.com/d7f374825 21:39:40 I can't read Erlang. 21:40:15 I thought he wrote the original, and ported it? 21:40:25 Yes, he did. 21:40:29 hmm 21:40:29 oki 21:40:30 As well as the sequel. 21:40:45 ah 21:40:46 yep 21:40:50 Warner was a major contributor to the early PLATO system in not just the area of gaming but also as an educational content developer. RobotWar and its editor program RobotWrite originated on the PLATO system in the 1970s. This 21:40:57 ehird, that is quite a trivial subset: [foo] [foo, bar] are lists, {a,b} is a 2-tuple, {a,b,c} is a 3-tuple. Foo is a variable, foo is an atom. _ means "match anything" 21:41:03 Which is the sequel? 21:41:08 i know, I just can't follow the logic, AnMaster 21:41:15 AnMaster: What's a | b 21:41:16 ehird, fair enough. 21:41:25 Deewiant, "Some other parts is not valid erlang syntax either" 21:41:26 :P 21:41:32 AnMaster: write it in haskell... same for lists... (a,b) is a tuple, foo is a variable, "foo" is an atom, _ means match anything >:) 21:41:37 mwaha 21:41:43 AnMaster: I don't care, but what did you mean with it :-P 21:41:50 Deewiant, I need to translate it to foo(Ins, _) when Ins = foo; Ins = bar 21:41:51 or such 21:41:55 where ; is "or" 21:42:07 Deewiant, so it is regex style | 21:42:22 Deewiant, and it is the syntax used in erlang -type and -spec specifications 21:42:24 Short answer: it's "or". 21:42:34 :-) 21:42:41 Deewiant, that would be correct yes 21:42:54 I want to learn how to program the C-64's SID chip. 21:42:55 -!- tombom_ has joined. 21:43:01 Then do so. 21:43:08 I don't know where to start :-) 21:43:10 * ehird googols 21:43:22 Nope, just a bunch of archives. 21:43:59 -!- OoS has joined. 21:44:28 Have a look at http://web.archive.org/web/20070513193613/http://stud4.tuwien.ac.at/~e9426444/ for instance. 21:44:40 ehird, can a function have multiple entry points in haskell? LIke this set of pattern matching entry points used here. 21:44:44 Yes3 21:44:46 *Yes. 21:44:51 Although it's not "entry point". 21:45:07 ehird, sure, names may differ. 21:45:13 AnMaster: Also, rather than using "foo" for an atom, you could do data MyStuff = AnAtom | AnotherAtom Int | Foo 21:45:23 where the Int is like passing {anotherAtom,3} in erlang 21:45:29 (matched as (AnotherAtom x)) 21:45:44 Deewiant: that's more reference than tutorial 21:45:53 Ett fel uppstod vid laddning av http://web.archive.org/web/20070513193613/http://stud4.tuwien.ac.at/~e9426444/: 21:45:53 Timeout på server 21:45:53 Anslutningen var till web.archive.org på port 80 21:45:55 Deewiant, ^ 21:45:56 Tutorials are for wusses 21:46:14 AnMaster: And? 21:46:19 is web archive down? 21:46:28 Not when I posted that it wasn't 21:46:34 It's up. 21:46:39 ah now it works again. But slow 21:46:40 AnMaster: It's our revenge for .se having google. 21:46:45 slower than ususal 21:46:51 ehird, damn, you stole my next comment! 21:47:11 Web archive is slow here too. I've been searching for Programming Game stuff on there. 21:47:28 OoS, it is *always* slow. Just usually not _this_ slow 21:49:43 I've been going through the list of programming games at http://aiforge.net trying to archive the stuff which hasn't disappeared yet. I hate linkrot. 21:56:35 "Handle it like nuclear waste! (i.e. with forks)" 21:59:55 -!- tombom has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:59:56 -!- tombom_ has changed nick to tombom. 22:04:10 -!- impomatic has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 22:23:01 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 22:30:07 -!- tombom has quit ("Peace and Protection 4.22.2"). 22:41:56 -!- ais523 has joined. 22:43:40 hi ais523 22:43:42 -!- kerlo has quit (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 22:45:09 -!- kerlo has joined. 22:45:11 hi ehird 22:46:08 -!- OoS has changed nick to impomatic. 22:55:45 ehird: The same programming reference book I linked to has the SID waveforms and registers and such described. 22:55:57 right; there's lots of references 22:56:08 but not tutorials 22:56:19 Tutorials are for people who can't read references. :p 22:56:24 :) 23:02:54 ehird: you know earlier today you were talking about Google being down/slow, and I was talking about Internet politics? 23:02:59 yes 23:03:00 according to Slashdot, the two are linked 23:03:09 Did Netcraft confirm it? 23:03:12 it seems someone screwed up the routing rules at Google 23:03:17 and it tried to route all its traffic via Asia 23:03:19 fizzie: what was that comic with the army-of-wangs-stalking-nightmares thing? 23:03:22 ais523: :-D 23:03:59 ehird: Google confirms it: http://googleblog.blogspot.com/2009/05/this-is-your-pilot-speaking-now-about.html 23:04:18 :D 23:05:48 this reminds me of how Pakistan accidentally blackholed YouTube a while back, while just trying to block it within the country 23:06:00 Founddit. 23:06:02 really, I'm not at all sure that managing the AS connections by hand is a good idea 23:06:32 good thing an AS number is 16-bit, so there can only be about 65000 of the things messing up at most 23:07:05 how comforting 23:07:20 slightly less because some of them are private use 23:07:27 and 0 is reserved 23:07:31 * ais523 idly wonders who's AS 1 23:07:48 Ooh, slashdot reports that the Radeon HD 4890 has been clocked to 1GHz. 23:07:54 How deliciously excessiv. 23:07:54 e 23:08:09 lThere are 32-bit AS numbers, IIRC. 23:08:26 heh: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/asnrequestform.html 23:08:31 And there's a link to SPCR in the comments! How homely. 23:08:35 that form scares me on about 3 levels 23:08:42 ais523: why? 23:08:45 no, four 23:08:51 ais523: http://www.iana.org/assignments/as-numbers/ 23:08:57 As of 1 January 2009, the RIPE NCC began assigning 32-bit (or four-byte) Autonomous System Numbers (ASNs) by default. This is in accordance with a common policy agreed on in all Regional Internet Registry (RIR) communities and described in the RIPE Document, Autonomous System (AS) Number Assignment Policies and Procedures. 23:09:01 Deewiant: not exactly old. 23:09:06 Couple of 32-bit ones at the bottom there. 23:09:12 ah, if it's 32-bit nowadays they aren't in such short supply nowadays 23:09:15 That was my point. 23:09:16 ais523: name the ways! 23:09:22 Also shows who's 1. 23:09:22 well, the import: export: at the end 23:09:27 "please tell us your routing policy" 23:09:33 as if anyone would do that 23:09:41 the things tend to change every few minutes 23:09:51 Deewiant: not exactly 23:09:58 we know ARIN owns it, but not who they gave it to 23:10:10 True enough. 23:10:11 ais523: how many ASs would you have to operate to get a good portion of the internet down? 23:10:12 also, the fact that it's a template for an email you're supposed to send them 23:10:29 ehird: the entire internet has been brought down by misconfiguring 1 before 23:10:35 wait, entire? 23:10:35 I'd need a network map to be sure. 23:10:36 although they're more robust against that sort of thing nowadays 23:10:36 all of it? 23:10:42 when was this 23:10:50 ehird: This was probably '95 or earlier, I'd imagine. 23:10:51 a few years ago it seems 23:10:53 ais523: but, more realistically 23:10:56 and it would only have blocked inter-AS routing 23:11:07 as in, how many would you need to bring them down without much luck 23:11:19 a small ISP somewhere in Asia somehow managed to advertise a zero-length route to every IPv4 address in existence 23:11:31 Now, about the worst that happens with misconfiguration is a single AS or a group of AS's are screwed up. 23:11:33 and blackholed every IP there was as a result 23:11:40 ais523: right, but that's just local 23:11:48 no, global 23:11:52 length 0 is pretty short 23:11:56 blackholed every IP ever? 23:11:57 Also for anything that goes through there. 23:12:07 ehird: unless it was within one ISP 23:12:12 awesome. 23:12:13 ais523: A large number of ASs filter out obviously false routes. 23:12:15 Deewiant: everything /would/ go through there, it was the shortest route! 23:12:17 ais523: did anything happen to them? 23:12:18 pikhq: all of them nowadays 23:12:32 ehird: yes, they got Usenet Death Penaltied, except generalised to the whole internet 23:12:33 And it wouldn't necessarily be the shortest route. 23:12:34 seems like that sort of stuff ought to be illegal :P 23:12:43 all the ASes they were connected to terminated their agreements with them 23:12:46 There's still the hops it takes to get to that ISP. 23:12:47 ;) 23:12:47 and so they went out of busineses 23:12:52 pikhq: yes 23:13:04 operating an isp must suck 23:13:10 I agree 23:13:18 ais523: I wasn't sure if it would spread that well, but evidently so. 23:13:31 Deewiant: it wouldn't have been perfect 23:13:37 I imagine it wouldn't have affected the length-1 peering agreements 23:13:43 maybe not provider-peer-customer either 23:13:45 We've got rather brittle routing protocols. 23:13:52 anything more complicated, though, would likely have ended up being blackholed 23:13:57 oh, length 0 = you can get to me with no hops! 23:13:58 ? 23:14:00 ehird: yes 23:14:10 ais523: are they lied about a lot? 23:14:11 although that would be translated by the ASes next door 23:14:16 into "you can get to bad-ISP in one hop" 23:14:16 i'd guess so :p 23:14:20 so it starts to diffuse slightly 23:14:33 it's more fun than that 23:14:39 Length 0 means "That's one of my other interfaces." 23:14:44 ASes are known to make routes look more convoluted than they are 23:14:50 heh 23:14:53 "Don't go here, man." 23:14:57 in order to try to persuade routers to send the traffic another way 23:14:58 "It'll take you aaaaaagges. Pick the other guy." 23:15:14 ais523: so, essentially, the job of an AS operator is to ensure it gets used as little as possible? 23:15:17 yes 23:15:19 -!- coppro has joined. 23:15:20 :-D 23:15:23 and to get rid of the traffic ASAP if it turns up 23:15:34 Hi, coppro. 23:15:45 imagine you are on an AS that serves all of Europe 23:16:00 and you want to send a packet to someone in Egypt on an AS that serves all of north Africa 23:16:11 when you send it, it'll go south and then across Africa 23:16:17 because your AS is trying to get rid of it as soon as they can 23:16:23 ehird: That's the job of any AS that uses peered links. 23:16:25 hi 23:16:37 the return packet will go north and across Europe, because that AS is trying to get rid of it as fast as /it/ can 23:16:38 An AS that purchases transit has a different job. 23:16:50 Send those packets the cheapest way possible. 23:16:51 so round-trips tend to be actually round, rather than along a straight line 23:17:01 Even if that means sending it through your rack of modems. :p 23:17:08 well, yes 23:17:25 peering is all about passing as little traffic as you can, while persuading the other guy to pass as much of your traffic as you can persuade them to 23:17:46 with purchasing, you can happily pass all the traffic your customer wants as it gives you an excuse to charge them extra 23:18:30 ehird: another scary thing on that AS request form is the website-if-available 23:18:30 I think the only reason our current setup works at all is that IP is one ridiculously robust protocol. 23:18:37 "Hi, I want to start an ISP. No, I don't have a website." 23:18:39 ais523: :-D 23:19:32 I wonder if the ASs in the more socialist countries are better. :-P 23:19:39 no idea 23:20:57 x-ncc-regid: 23:21:06 that x- almost scares me more than the rest of the form 23:21:10 although I'm not entirely sure why 23:21:26 -!- impomatic has left (?). 23:21:47 ah, a bit of sanity: % Which address prefix will originate from the new AS number? 23:22:17 which means that RIPE at least are planning to tell people what sort of sanity checks to put on new ASes 23:22:35 if an ISP can only blackhole itself, it just ends up looking stupid rather than being ostracised to death 23:22:45 and I'm sure RIPE would raise eyebrows if it was given 0.0.0.0/0 23:23:01 like the top-tier ISPs end up being able to advertise 23:24:22 ais523: what does that mean? 23:24:26 the full ip space? 23:24:28 yes 23:24:38 ofc, they don't advertise the whole thing 23:24:44 but they might need to advertise any individual bit of it 23:24:50 depending on conditions elsewhere on the internet 23:25:12 because the top-tier ISPs are top-tier precisely because people pay them to route anywhere without going via a parent ISP 23:25:29 ais523: with all of these variables, I bet you could derive a mathematical proof that the internet can't possibly work 23:25:56 as I've said before, it's been proven that it's uncomputable to determine whether it works at any given instant, even with perfect information 23:25:58 which nobody has 23:26:06 :D 23:26:26 that's different from a proof that it can't possibly work 23:26:29 but scarier, in a way 23:30:03 ooh, ASes have their own equivalent of example.com 23:30:16 :D 23:30:18 what is it? 23:30:23 it's the range 65536-65551 23:30:36 I have no idea what happens if you attempt to route there 23:30:41 you'd have to be an ISP to even /try/ 23:31:03 well, then, let's fill out that form and see 23:31:11 (↑ this is the kind of attitude I take to everything) 23:31:45 RIPE would ask you to take out an account with them, I expect 23:31:52 are they even the right continent? 23:32:20 yep, RIPE do Europe 23:32:26 see? we're all set. 23:32:49 there are instructions for filling out the form: http://www.ripe.net/ripe/docs/asnsupport.html 23:33:24 Enter your Registry Identifier (RegID) in the "x-ncc-regid:" field. RegIDs have the following format: .. 23:33:25 If you do not know your RegID, please contact . 23:33:26 Or, make one up! 23:33:31 uk.ehirdnet 23:33:55 AS Number Type: 16-bit 23:33:55 Why 16-bit: Our routers are not 32-bit enabled. 23:33:56 brilliant 23:34:02 you can saturate the net with a perfect excuse! 23:34:10 ehird: you may have problem filling in the bit where you mark the two ASs who will peer with you 23:34:25 getting two existing ISPs to sponsor your application is likely beyond even your ability 23:34:26 ais523: Bogons operates an open peering policy, and is keen to peer with ISPs, either publicly at a common Peering Point, or privately at a common site. We are especially keen to peer with networks offering multicast transit or to end users. 23:34:27 —bogons.net 23:34:34 haha 23:34:38 it's two people, but unfortunately I think they're too ethical 23:34:41 do you even /own/ an AS router? 23:34:46 well... no? 23:34:54 how much do they cost :^) 23:35:01 apparently you can convert linux boxes into them 23:35:09 set 23:35:09 so you could probably fix an old computer into one for free 23:35:29 do I need any sort of special telephone line or something, like you need to start a dsl isp :-P 23:36:10 seriously, you aren't going through with this, though, are you? 23:36:21 I seriously wonder what RIPE's reaction would be 23:36:25 this is a form of performance art 23:36:30 like Agora running a court case against Hillary Clinton 23:36:33 i'm tempted now 23:36:47 even though all the effort would come down to "We have decided to decline your AS application. -RIPE" 23:37:02 yes 23:37:11 also, another point 23:37:15 what IPs would you advertise? 23:37:21 ais523: can you choose? 23:37:24 it can't be ones you already have, as they belong to a different ISP 23:37:30 you have to rent out the IPs first 23:37:37 from the people who assign IPs 23:37:37 hmm 23:37:48 going IPv6 only would probably make it easier to get hold of a few IPs of your own 23:37:48 ais523: advertising more IPs = more traffic coming my way, right? 23:38:00 ehird: traffic comes your way only if it's to an IP you advertise 23:38:04 ah 23:38:07 thats 23:38:07 and you get in trouble if you don't actually have a route to it 23:38:10 rather limited 23:38:19 you also advertise IPs that belong to your customers 23:38:22 but not your peers 23:38:24 and, um, I'm going to be routing everything to the AS example.com 23:38:28 because you don't carry traffic to other people 23:38:30 I think "trouble" is an understatement 23:38:38 (ok, I probably won't follow through with it...) 23:39:12 probably not following through is all the best 23:39:12 ais523: so how do you actually get traffic flow your way? 23:39:21 well, most ISPs consider that a bad thing 23:39:32 but if you're the (only|best) person who advertises an address 23:39:42 then traffic to that address is sent to you, on the assumption that you know where to route it to 23:39:49 so ISPs advertise the IPs of their customers, for instance 23:39:50 wow, if you enable javascript on slashdot.org 23:39:53 you get the endless pageless style 23:39:58 (more items come as you scroll) 23:40:06 yes, but so slowly it doesn't really feel endless 23:40:13 fast enough for me 23:40:22 ais523: the problem is that they don't do it before you get to the end 23:40:23 which is the whole point 23:40:26 yes 23:41:45 http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/14/0320234 "Cory Doctorow advocates impossible licensing technique in a desperate death throw attempt to give bits value" 23:42:12 creative commons + a royalty requirement? 23:42:18 has he checked that that isn't self-contradictory? 23:42:20 it probably isn't 23:42:32 but I'd advise at least reading the license you're modifying first 23:42:44 Cory was one of the first major CC advocates 23:42:46 so I assume so 23:42:54 for instance, with cc-by-sa + royalty requirement, who gets the royalties, the original author or the person who modified it? 23:43:45 http://oxyron-party.untergrund.net/fanta_in_space.mp3 ← I can't believe this came out of a C-64. 23:43:50 pretty cool 23:44:02 hmm... http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tier_1_carrier is interesting 23:44:22 Ah yes, Tier-1s. 23:44:39 By definition, a Tier 1 network does not purchase IP transit from any other network or pay settlements to any other network to reach any other portion of the Internet. Therefore, in order to be a Tier 1, a network must peer with every other Tier 1 network. A new network cannot become a Tier 1 without the implicit approval of every other Tier 1 network, since any one network's refusal to peer with it will prevent the new network from being considered a Ti 23:44:41 er 1. 23:44:43 the funny thing, of course, is that most traffic's handled by peering at the tier-2 level 23:44:43 c-b-l 23:45:02 actually, the list of tier 1 networks is rather disturbing 23:45:05 and yes, if there are any two tier 1 networks who don't peer, it causes a rift in the internet 23:45:11 most of them are gigantic blob ISPs 23:45:21 like AT&T, Verio, Qwest, Sprint, Verizon... 23:45:28 there are other ways to do that, but tier 1 vs. tier 1 is a rather simple way 23:45:59 ooh, Cogent settled with Sprint 23:46:05 I was wondering how that particular rift got sealed 23:46:14 but it seems Cogent's paying Sprint money now to maintain the same relationship as before 23:46:28 I've never heard good stuff about Cogent 23:46:55 A case of industrial espionage arose in 1995 that involved both Intel and AMD. Guillermo Gaede, an Argentine formerly employed both at AMD and at Intel's Arizona plant, was arrested for attempting in 1993 to sell the i486 and Pentium designs to AMD and to certain foreign powers.[23] Gaede videotaped data from his computer screen at Intel and mailed it to AMD, which immediately alerted Intel and authorities, resulting in Gaede's arrest. Gaede was convicte 23:46:57 d and sentenced to 33 months in prison in June 1996.[24][25] 23:47:11 "I'm just going to send this to AMD out of the blue. They'll like that!" 23:47:47 wait, AMD alerted Intel? 23:47:50 yes 23:47:54 respect++ 23:47:55 if someone sends you a competitor's secret stuff 23:48:01 you tell them so as not to be accused of using it 23:48:08 that's not really respect 23:48:13 that's just sanity 23:48:13 oh, godo point 23:48:17 *good 23:48:17 it's a very trivial kind of ethics 23:48:17 or CYA, I suppose 23:48:23 that even slimes probably know of :P 23:48:38 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/f/fc/Intel_Costa_12_2007_SJO_105b.jpg the little blocks look like heatsinks. 23:49:18 Intel is actually a giant processor 23:49:20 "No one has an office; everyone, even Otellini, sits in a cubicle."—[[Intell Corporation]] 23:49:22 *Intel 23:49:24 How dreary. 23:49:37 nah, the entire company of Intel lives inside my computer 23:49:45 have you not seen their advertising? 23:49:45 ais523: what happens when you turn it off? 23:49:52 ehird: presumably they keep working 23:49:58 they're large enough to have their own power supply 23:50:04 * ehird 's brain explodes 23:50:21 ais523: so if you left it off long enough ... 23:50:42 well, presumably they sometimes get hungry and pop out for a pizza 23:50:47 but they're american, so they only do it while I'm asleep 23:50:56 timezone difference, you see 23:51:02 must be a dangerous place for someone so small 23:51:05 nanometer-scale 23:51:41 wow, intel kept the same logo from 1968-2005 23:51:51 and then changed it? no wonder they're in trouble 23:52:03 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/9/93/Intel_Logo.svg old 23:52:04 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/c/c9/Intel-logo.svg new 23:52:05 changing a logo you haven't changed for decades strikes me as the sort of thing companies only do when desperate 23:52:07 I prefer the new one tbh 23:52:28 yes, even if it is an improvement, it's not the sort of thing a company does when they're doing well 23:52:40 and I prefer the new one too 23:52:44 ais523: I think Intel were doing well in 2005. Remember, they came out with the Core 2 processors then. 23:52:48 Those were *wildly* successful. 23:53:04 wait no 23:53:06 that was 2006 23:53:07 Core was 2005 23:53:14 Core doesn't run the Core architecture 23:53:19 Core 2 runs the Core architecture; are you confused yet? 23:53:35 oh, and Core weren't desktop CPUs 23:53:44 they were mobile cpus based on P6 23:53:45 core 2 was one of Intel's first really succesfull CPUs in ages 23:53:46 not NetBurst 23:53:51 oh wait, core was 2006-2008 23:53:54 so you had core and core 2 simultaneously 23:54:00 core was based on P6 and was a mobile processor 23:54:06 core 2 was based on Core and was a desktop processor 23:54:12 except 23:54:19 the Core processor appeared in the mac mini 23:54:24 despite not being a desktop processor 23:54:27 are you confused yet? 23:56:04 no, but only because I wasn't trying to follow it 23:56:11 good coice 23:56:12 choice 23:57:20 anyway, if you want to screw around with ASes, it only takes a minimum 8 computers to make an Internet 23:57:33 yes, the traditional Jeremy Clarkson deliberate error is correct here 23:57:39 :-D 23:57:44 The Internets connect to form an Internet! 23:57:49 in fact, it's generally believed that more than one Internet exists as it is, there's just the one big famous one 23:58:16 and if you make your own Internet, you can assign all the AS numbers and IPs as you like 23:58:18 "generally believed"? 23:58:28 well, the US Army almost certainly has one 23:58:34 an internet is just a network of computers that is international :P 23:58:34 but it's hard to tell for certain 23:58:39 ehird: not quite 23:58:43 an internet is a network of network 23:58:45 *networks 23:58:50 ais523: step one, join army, step two, see if there's any internets? 23:59:11 I imagine the Army mostly uses the well-known public Internet 23:59:15 (step 3, get killed in staged combat so you don't reveal the horrible secret of the army's cthulhunet) 23:59:27 but I wouldn't be surprised if it had a private one too, for more important or secret messages 23:59:37 Intellipedia is known to exist, after all 23:59:47 it's like a US Wikipedia for spies 23:59:50 it even runs MediaWiki 23:59:52 more than known to exist 23:59:52 http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/22/Screenshot-Intellipedia.png 23:59:55 a screenshot 23:59:57 wow