< 1242691204 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow < 1242691210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: welcome bac < 1242691211 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :k < 1242691212 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :radio went out with public message < 1242691214 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :over all channels < 1242691216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wut < 1242691219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's happening < 1242691222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aliens? < 1242691228 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: aliens‽‽ < 1242691228 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, major gas leak in big city < 1242691237 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yikes < 1242691241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: of the deadly kind, I assume? < 1242691249 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, unknown < 1242691252 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, far from hear < 1242691254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :here* < 1242691270 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd interject with something like "that's what you get for being a dirty swede!" but it seems inappropriate < 1242691285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION waits for the BBC to pick it up
< 1242691301 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it cut off in the middle of the news. Right in the middle of a sentence. < 1242691317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ... what caused that? The gas? < 1242691321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you mean < 1242691323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the broadcast < 1242691324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the message yeah < 1242691336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: must be pretty bad tthen < 1242691346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "please go indoor and close all windows door and ventilation" < 1242691349 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1242691359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Yikes. < 1242691366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Severe, then. < 1242691377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, from some industry there it seems. < 1242691386 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION F5 F5 F5 F5 on bbc.co.uk
< 1242691389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(well okay, Cmd-R) < 1242691401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, heh < 1242691464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there is nothing on the news anywhere about it yet... < 1242691468 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not even on sr.se < 1242691469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1242691474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(radio's website) < 1242691475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: must be very early report then < 1242691478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no time to write anything about it < 1242691479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah < 1242691486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which implies that the leak is very serious < 1242691573 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you've got me all jumpy now :P < 1242691593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, not that Swedish radio is very nocturnal. One channel shuts down after 01:30 until 06:00, one sends classical music streamed from BBC(!), the remaining two sends the same thing during the night, pop music. < 1242691626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mm < 1242691758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION F5s sr.se too for good measure
< 1242691827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: also, wait < 1242691828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :shut all windows? < 1242691830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's 2am isn't it < 1242691834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1242691844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :01:10 here < 1242691848 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it seems like there wouldn't be many windows open at 2am :-P < 1242691849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, 1am too < 1242691873 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um, I slept with open window since mid-April < 1242691876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fresher air < 1242691883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: in sweden? < 1242691884 0 :oklodok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: even if you're up at 2am? < 1242691887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :must freeze to death < 1242691895 0 :oklodok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1242691898 0 :oklodok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's what you meant < 1242691903 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklodok: well, the windows in this house generally get closed when it gets cold at night < 1242691904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nah. I have a secret weapon < 1242691906 0 :oklodok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least here it's been summer for weeks < 1242691918 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklodok: but it never really gets warm in .fi/.se does it :-P < 1242691928 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway, no ventilation in this house, it is too old < 1242691936 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :built 1907 < 1242691947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a victorian sort of house I think < 1242691950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it's a flat < 1242691951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1242691953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so half of a victorian house < 1242691955 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it's sort of a flat < 1242691960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the bathroom is up a flight of stairs < 1242691963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's rather silly < 1242691969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :free standing < 1242691980 0 :oklodok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i don't know about your standards, but warm enough that i might keep a window open if i ever did < 1242691987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklodok: what celsius? < 1242692004 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: waddya mean be freestanding < 1242692063 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, like http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fil:Villa-nyköping-ostra4.JPG < 1242692075 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: term is "detached house" < 1242692084 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, kay. in Swedish it is "villa" < 1242692088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I live in a flat in a terrace, so not nearly as free as that :-P < 1242692101 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :flat in a terrace? < 1242692113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: a http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Terraced_house containing flats. < 1242692130 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aka apartment < 1242692134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you're oh so very american < 1242692136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1242692146 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not < 1242692154 0 :oklodok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i don't really know. i saw a 14 a few mornings ago, but it was very early. < 1242692160 0 :oklodok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :may have been night < 1242692166 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklodok: 14C is what it's like here at night :-P < 1242692180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10C atm outside and it's midnight < 1242692182 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I have a secret weapon < 1242692185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh? < 1242692187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a BFG? < 1242692188 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10C outside here too. < 1242692192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hot water bottle! < 1242692192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1242692199 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://outside.hut.fi/ is the temperature sensor at our university, but it gets direct sunlight, like you can see from the graphs. < 1242692201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: yeah but it's sweden. their celsi-ii is colder. < 1242692212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1242692213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finland < 1242692217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, actually, Finland is colder than Sweden < 1242692222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i said finland < 1242692223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was a mistake < 1242692230 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant that fizzie's 10C is colder than my 10C < 1242692231 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1242692237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uhu? < 1242692241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1242692244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a law of finnishology < 1242692248 0 :oklodok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: wow that graph is pretty < 1242692260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklodok: it's like a sine wave after a beating < 1242692268 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's that five-years-or-so big graph at http://outside.hut.fi/five.html which might average out the worst sunlight-freak-o-temperatures. < 1242692283 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1242692286 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since it's 24h average, or so they say. < 1242692312 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The radiolab or some other people had a real weather-station readings, but I can never remember the URL for that. < 1242692342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also, slightly open, not wide open < 1242692354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.yr.no says it is 8 C here < 1242692387 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, there it is. http://radio.tkk.fi/en/weather/ has some real data. < 1242692390 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, rained today, so colder than yesterday < 1242692440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still nothing on bbc or that sr.se thing < 1242692906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Ammoniakutsläpp i Stenungsund" < 1242692910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.svd.se/nyheter/inrikes/artikel_2917959.svd < 1242692911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1242692915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :damn < 1242692917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is BAD < 1242692922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: /me runs google translate < 1242692928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how bad < 1242692931 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: national crisis bad? < 1242692934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ammonia < 1242692935 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that bad < 1242692949 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: holy. fucking. shit. < 1242692962 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :says it was unclear how large it was < 1242692964 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at midnight < 1242692992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, we are unable to translate the page you requested. < 1242692992 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.svd.se/nyheter/inrikes/artikel_2917959.svd < 1242692998 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Men enligt polisens länskommunikationscentral hade inte räddningstjänsten vid midnatt begärt någon hjälp av polisen angående avspärrningar eller eventuell evakuering." <-- emergency service had not requested any help with evacuation at the time of writing. Well I guess that changed since < 1242693007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the last is my comment. < 1242693024 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: could you translate the tagline and the two paragraphs? < 1242693030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kay < 1242693046 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ammoniakutsläpp i Stenungsund <-- Leak of ammonia in Stenungsund < 1242693056 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ett utsläpp av ammoniak har skett vid Axo Nobels anläggning i Stenungsund. Räddningstjänsten har i radion gått ut med ett så kallat Viktigt meddelande där allmänheten uppmanas att stanna inne, stänga fönster och ventilation. < 1242693128 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A leak of ammonia has happened at Axo Nobel's plant/facility in Stenungsund. The Emergency service has in radio sent a so called Important message where people are asked to stay indoors, close windows and ventilation < 1242693135 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is a semi-broken grammar < 1242693139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in the translation < 1242693151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(couldn't be arsed to try to fix it) < 1242693156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Det var vid midnatt oklart hur stort utsläppet är. < 1242693156 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Men enligt polisens länskommunikationscentral hade inte räddningstjänsten vid midnatt begärt någon hjälp av polisen angående avspärrningar eller eventuell evakuering. < 1242693170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "a so called Important" :-D < 1242693173 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is at midnight it unclear how large the leak is. < 1242693207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think that is an official name "Important message" < 1242693212 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eyah < 1242693213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1242693214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just funny < 1242693215 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was with upper case in Swedish < 1242693219 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since "so called X" means doubtfully-X < 1242693220 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Men enligt polisens länskommunikationscentral hade inte räddningstjänsten vid midnatt begärt någon hjälp av polisen angående avspärrningar eller eventuell evakuering. < 1242693221 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1242693229 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it isn't like that in Swedish < 1242693233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1242693233 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1242693236 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1242693239 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Men enligt polisens länskommunikationscentral hade inte räddningstjänsten vid midnatt begärt någon hjälp av polisen angående avspärrningar eller eventuell evakuering. < 1242693307 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But (according to the police's communication central) the emergency service had not (at midnight) requested any help with barricades or evacuation. < 1242693310 0 :oklodok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Men enligt polisens länskommunikationscentral hade inte räddningstjänsten vid midnatt begärt någon hjälp av polisen angående avspärrningar eller eventuell evakuering. < 1242693344 0 :oklodok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who cares about some silly catastrophy, let's just play the nick pasting game < 1242693355 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklodok, no < 1242693358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:35 oklodok: AnMaster: Men enligt polisens länskommunikationscentral hade inte räddningstjänsten vid midnatt begärt någon hjälp av polisen angående avspärrningar eller eventuell evakuering. < 1242693361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was trying to get back on topic < 1242693362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1242693364 0 :oklodok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1242693365 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: gotta agree with him here, this is #esoteric < 1242693367 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :going to bed now < 1242693371 0 :oklodok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night! < 1242693372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1242693441 0 :oklodok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5 pages to go, and i'll be done, and my next exam isn't in long times! < 1242693445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.aftonbladet.se/senastenytt/ttnyheter/inrikes/article5177106.ab < 1242693447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :same text < 1242693448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1242693453 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yeah TT < 1242693456 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it'll come from a news agency < 1242693458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's like Reuters < 1242693459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1242693460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like Reuters or AP < 1242693460 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1242693461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :news agency < 1242693514 0 :oklodok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird are you still benchmarking bbc response time? < 1242693526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::DD < 1242693534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklodok: can I hire you to be funny at me all day? < 1242693535 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :news: < 1242693539 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :google maps works without js < 1242693548 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes really < 1242693548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that can't be very pleasant < 1242693560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :click. wait. click. wait. click. wait. gee, if only I could drag < 1242693586 0 :oklodok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: i don't think i'd work well paid by hour < 1242693598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklodok: flat monthly rate? < 1242693602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, lim_(x -> 0) x = google response time < 1242693603 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1242693618 0 :oklodok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well i'm all for a steady income :P < 1242693621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well sure but :P < 1242693629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://maps.google.com/maps?q=Stenungsund&oe=UTF-8&ie=UTF-8&split=0&ei=fvERSvCXIcnDsgaFoOSJDg&output=html&zoom=3&zp=OOOOOO < 1242693631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is where < 1242693643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you can't even click! < 1242693643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which interface is it < 1242693647 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what? < 1242693655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't click on the map itself < 1242693657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to "drag" < 1242693659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I think it is for mobile phones < 1242693662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and such < 1242693663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1242693665 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nah < 1242693670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too wide fram efor that < 1242693675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1242693685 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, for links -g ? < 1242693690 0 :oklodok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for every length of time there is a piece of news google caught on before said time had elapsed < 1242693692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: heh < 1242693730 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I think this is new < 1242693736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I remember trying without JS before < 1242693738 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no worky < 1242693739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Joke site idea: silentcarreview.com < 1242693751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sounds like a good idea < 1242693752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even < 1242693757 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yeah seriously) < 1242693764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you'd have to silence all the other motorists' cars too :-P < 1242693772 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh? < 1242693774 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1242693776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1242693781 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trickier < 1242693786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it won't make much difference if you're the only silent car on the road will it < 1242693800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah but make everyone buy one < 1242693815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well if we're going down that route make it mandatory that everyone own a kitten < 1242693818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :morale will improve instantly < 1242693909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, allergic to them. Can't < 1242693919 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :plus cats are evil < 1242693932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if I was allergic to kittens I'd never get out of bed < 1242693938 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd just lie there thinking about how worthless my life is < 1242693956 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1242693968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, allergic to dogs, cats and some sorts of pollen. < 1242693977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well dogs is okay i don't like dogs < 1242693981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and pollen isn't cute and fluffy < 1242693985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but kittens... < 1242694016 0 :oklodok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: weren't you supposed to sleep?!?!?!?!?!?!?!? < 1242694138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklodok, see above < 1242694142 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :think < 1242694235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, updates < 1242694242 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh < 1242694250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "situation under control" < 1242694252 0 :oklodok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: hmm no, my thinking cannot explain it < 1242694254 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"no wind" < 1242694267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: boring, i was hoping for like, zombie outbreak < 1242694279 0 :oklodok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah those are always interesting for a while < 1242694284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, wouldn't be nice. I know people in that area. < 1242694297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but, zombies kind of outweigh that < 1242694306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that isn't the effect < 1242694313 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the effect is just dead people < 1242694319 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dead people turn into zombies via magic < 1242694323 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Phngh. Finally got graded those AI course project-works. Meh, I've been making snide comments about our TCS lab professors who reply to emails in the middle of the night; but now I self sent those grades out at 02:30 am or so. < 1242694342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1242694378 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, they still don't know how much leaked. But the leak is "probably" stopped < 1242694394 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they suspect that the tank that leaked wasn't full < 1242694403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how comforting! < 1242694425 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.svd.se/nyheter/inrikes/artikel_2917959.svd < 1242694439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb learning to read swedish < 1242694449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, copy paste to google translate < 1242694449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :works < 1242694454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1242694471 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer) < 1242694474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, was it better we had that huge fire just a bit south of here? Last year. < 1242694484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :- Situation is under control. We do not yet know how much has been leaked. But the weather is favorable, there is no wind that can spread a possible gasmoln. It smells of nothing, which suggests that it is not so much leaked, "said Bengt Carlsson. < 1242694489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 8 fire brigades worked on it at max < 1242694489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it smells of nothing < 1242694492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what a way to detect < 1242694496 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just sniff! < 1242694502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is a tank when it is filled capacity of 3 000 cubic meters of ammonia for some reason leaked. < 1242694507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3,000 cubic meters? ouch < 1242694518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, could have been bad yeah < 1242694521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it had been full < 1242694527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1242694531 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the translation obscured the meaning < 1242694555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "It is a tank which when filled has a capacity of 3 000 ..." < 1242694557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the real reason i was scared is that sweden is a province of finland < 1242694562 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of the 3 people living there could have got hurt < 1242694583 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : the real reason i was scared is that sweden is a province of finland <--- technically wrong < 1242694599 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no no totally true < 1242694631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but was it < 1242694650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes or no < 1242694659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finland used to be a province of sweden < 1242694662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ehird, was it better we had that huge fire just a bit south of here? Last year. ehird, 8 fire brigades worked on it at max < 1242694663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that < 1242694668 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then time-space warped and Finland-space started < 1242694670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "better" how < 1242694675 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wind was blowing the smoke my way < 1242694681 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :+ toxic smoke < 1242694682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1242694686 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cool < 1242694688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(plastics) < 1242694693 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I mentioned it in here then < 1242694694 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1242694702 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night really < 1242694703 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't recall last year < 1242694704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-P < 1242694705 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye < 1242694724 0 :oklodok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :night! < 1242694800 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He's probably lulling us to a false sense of security; he'll jump out of hiding and attack any minute now. < 1242694807 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :noooooooooooo < 1242694807 0 :oklodok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3000 cubic meters... could probably be used as a blue whale aquarium < 1242694826 0 :oklodok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(i want one!) < 1242694843 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklodok: yes store them in ammonia < 1242694889 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :3000 cubic meters is still just a cube with approximately 14.422 meter sides. That's not so big. < 1242694898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1242694929 0 :oklodok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite big for an aquarium < 1242694944 0 :oklodok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact i don't think i've seen one as big < 1242695034 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The boat-building department here at TKK has a pool of 7865 cubic meters (5.5 meters deep, 11 meters wide, 130 meters long), but that's just plain old water. < 1242695057 0 :oklodok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::O < 1242695066 0 :oklodok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many blue whales is that? < 1242695067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: omg awesome < 1242695075 0 :lifthrasiir!n=lifthras@143.248.133.205 JOIN :#esoteric < 1242695086 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They also advertise the "world's largest 40 x 40 meter ice-model-test-pool where you can perform experiments with 70 mm thick model ice", but they don't say how deep that thing is. < 1242695116 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.tkk.fi/Units/Ship/General/ and then the "ship laboratory"; it's a silly javascript thing that'll toggle the content open. < 1242695148 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The English version doesn't say "world's largest"; only the Finnish one has that. Heh. < 1242695167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they don't want to reveal their secrets < 1242695170 0 :inurinternet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1242695186 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hopefully they build better ships than web pages. < 1242695260 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's wave-making machinery in both pools (except it's called a "basin", that sounds more officious); I'm *very* certain the students use them as huge-ass swimming pools (don't move the dash again) when no-one's looking. < 1242695279 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: huge ass-swimming pools < 1242695289 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe that, too. < 1242695298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huge ass swimming po-ols < 1242695301 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's moving!! < 1242695427 0 :inurinternet!n=nuri@cpe-72-132-167-7.dc.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1242695762 0 :oklodok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo < 1242695773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo < 1242695800 0 :oklodok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :free as a bird am i now < 1242695807 0 :oklodok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i don't have a care in the world < 1242695841 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i am green < 1242695926 0 :oklodok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why so < 1242695963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklodok: well because glo-fold < 1242696195 0 :oklodok!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :! < 1242696208 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oklodok: y eah! < 1242696347 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Metaplace is open beta! < 1242696383 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pavitra's on MP < 1242696389 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1242696557 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w00t, it's possilble to go into the MP Central waters! < 1242696569 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1242696956 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: grep is twice as fast with hyperthreading < 1242696968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: grep on what < 1242696969 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/dev/random? < 1242696973 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1242696985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: that's such a real-world operation. < 1242696988 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not < 1242697093 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i remember reading an article detailing how someone used DFAs to grep at like 12 gb/s < 1242697110 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and i was pretty impressed < 1242697115 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but this processor can do 9 < 1242697128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: grep is singlethreaded < 1242697131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how can it be faster w/ ht < 1242697145 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is trivial to parelellize manually < 1242697176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: you said "grep" < 1242697180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not "my parallel grep" < 1242697185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which skews the results < 1242697192 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1242697202 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no it doesn't < 1242697214 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh :p < 1242697278 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: try fgrep < 1242697281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet you could hit 12gb/s < 1242697299 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :naw, grep uses the same algorithm on fixed strings < 1242697310 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: but with less processing itme < 1242697314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :due to not having to interpret special chars < 1242697318 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :boyer-moore judging from the fact that you get better speed on longer strings < 1242697322 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fine, one sec < 1242697407 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-102-10.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1242697424 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :linux's /dev/urandom is really slow < 1242697431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: cat it to a file < 1242697432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then fgrep < 1242697435 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no shit < 1242697436 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(ssd, ofc) < 1242697442 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, ramdisk ofc < 1242697447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1242697452 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1242697461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: you have more ram than my first HD size < 1242697528 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's some bad locking too < 1242697535 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: What, you expect it to create entropy? < 1242697542 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it's urandom < 1242697544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's meant to make shit up < 1242697546 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i am running 8 dd's of /dev/urandom and each cpu is only at 35% < 1242697548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :random is the one that freezes < 1242697551 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right. < 1242697552 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes, i do < 1242697572 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: It's not going to make entropy. < 1242697578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1242697579 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's going to pretend to have entropy. < 1242697580 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1242697581 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1242697595 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it output is indistinguishable from real entropy < 1242697604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err no < 1242697629 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a computationally bounded attacker, yes < 1242697634 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving..." < 1242697676 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well if you specify "computationally bounded"... So are primes, for some notion of computationaly bounded. :p < 1242697691 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"computationally bounded" = real < 1242697715 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Depends on the psuedorandom number generator. < 1242697732 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1242697741 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/dev/urandom is purported to be cryptographically secure < 1242697766 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Granted. < 1242697819 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ time echo ran* ran* ran* ran* ran* ran*| xargs -n 1 -P 8 grep foobarbaz < 1242697819 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real 0m2.355s < 1242697819 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :user 0m9.897s < 1242697819 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sys 0m6.420s < 1242697853 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :10 gigabytes/second < 1242697889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: your rig is amazing. challenged only by my future one ;-) < 1242697894 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fgrep takes exactly the same time < 1242697922 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: God, if I had $10,000 in disposable income. < 1242697932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: not that much! bsmnt's cost $1,7000 < 1242697932 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and check this out- < 1242697933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w < 1242697934 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1242697936 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ time echo ran* ran* ran* ran* ran* ran*| xargs -n 1 -P 8 fgrep foobarbadsfkj09i3209ilksajdfkljaslfjlasfjdlkajsfdlkjalsfjdksajdfkljaslllfkdkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkkazffffffffffassssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssssss < 1242697936 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :real 0m1.611s < 1242697937 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$1,700 < 1242697947 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Our uberbuild. < 1242697950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mine will probably cost about $4,000 < 1242697952 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oyeah :-D < 1242697953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bye → < 1242697979 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 6 seconds of system time worries me < 1242697986 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm thinking i can do better < 1242698330 0 :coppro!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1242698352 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: Uh, you do realise that file access consists of system time, right? < 1242698368 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1242698801 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ahahaha < 1242698817 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.google.com/url?sa=t&source=web&ct=res&cd=3&url=http%3A%2F%2Fwww.arl.wustl.edu%2F~sarang%2Fjsac_cameraready.pdf&ei=mAUSSpCGG8OHtgfOoeWACA&usg=AFQjCNGdR0vyT1iYMrr6xRtEeUuwGhjSAg&sig2=tdY3YBP1h0x85tTt4DtNPw < 1242698824 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the paper i was talking about < 1242698842 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a measly core i7 is way faster than their specialized hardware < 1242699780 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wc(1) is like a zillion times slower than grep < 1242702250 0 :Gracenotes!n=person@wikipedia/Gracenotes JOIN :#esoteric < 1242702274 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood: wc(1) counts shit. Grep does regexps. < 1242702274 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Whaddya expect? < 1242702739 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :counting is faster than regexps < 1242702783 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually wc -w takes about the same time as grep < 1242702787 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wc -w is what is slow < 1242703020 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mmm. < 1242703056 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wc -c is of course constant time < 1242703096 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, yeah. < 1242705140 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love Allegiance < 1242705141 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EZ__4qWLO7E < 1242705949 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i need a 64 bit rolling checksum < 1242707211 0 :bsmntbombdood_!n=gavin@97-118-122-161.hlrn.qwest.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1242707257 0 :bsmntbombdood!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1242708809 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1242709787 0 :oklodok!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1242711871 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-107-183-235.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1242713820 0 :asiekierka!i=asiekier@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1242713821 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1242713976 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi < 1242714095 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh, I had a scoring idea for BF Joust < 1242714105 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you battle on each possible tape size < 1242714117 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :draws are 0, wins are +1 and loses are -1 < 1242714133 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So for example if a program wins with the bot on 20 tape sizes but loses on one, it has 19 points < 1242714142 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, it battles with every program in the list other than itself < 1242714163 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so if there are 10 programs and the program we're talking about is not one of these < 1242714167 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it can score up to 200 points < 1242714175 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or fail at -200 points < 1242714647 0 :upyr[emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 113 (No route to host) < 1242714821 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1242717337 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@e-86.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1242718733 0 :olsner!n=salparot@h-60-96.A163.priv.bahnhof.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1242719416 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1242719999 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :ended < 1242720000 0 :clog!unknown@unknown.invalid JOIN :#esoteric < 1242722586 0 :GreaseMonkey!n=gm@unaffiliated/greasemonkey JOIN :#esoteric < 1242723673 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1242723726 0 :lereah_!n=lereah@nanpc319.in2p3.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1242724121 0 :Judofyr!n=Judofyr@084202203253.customer.alfanett.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1242726159 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1242726192 0 :sebbu!n=tanaka@ADijon-152-1-35-208.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1242728213 0 :GreaseMonkey!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"YES -> thor-ainor.it <- THIS IS *DELICIOUS*!" < 1242729203 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1242732474 0 :tombom!i=tombom@wikipedia/Tombomp JOIN :#esoteric < 1242733177 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: omg Darths and Droids < 1242733193 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*& < 1242733354 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, agreed < 1242733367 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It *so* has not been ten years. Soon you'll be telling me it's been over ten years since the Matrix. < 1242733383 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no idea if it was. < 1242733418 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, when was Matrix released < 1242733422 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: well it's been ten years according to our clocks. the simulation of course runs much faster. < 1242733428 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably a couple hours < 1242733431 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1242733440 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :March 1999, apparently. < 1242733463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then it is 10 years + some months I guess. < 1242733488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about Terminator? < 1242733512 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :25 < 1242733521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow really? < 1242733523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1242733532 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1984; I had just managed to be born the year before. < 1242733565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was born -5 years before. < 1242733591 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18 for #2 < 1242733619 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So even Terminator 2 can now drink alcoholic beverages. (Well, depending on the local age limits and so on; it's 18 around here.) < 1242733630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never seen Terminator, only Terminator 2 < 1242733638 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/seen/watched/ < 1242733655 0 :sebbu!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1242733684 0 :sebbu!n=tanaka@ADijon-152-1-35-208.w83-194.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1242733723 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1242733741 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1242733744 0 :Halph!n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro JOIN :#esoteric < 1242733750 0 :Halph!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :coppro < 1242734211 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!n=nice@HSI-KBW-091-089-027-168.hsi2.kabelbw.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1242735347 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Peace and Protection 4.22.2" < 1242735884 0 :jix!n=jix@77-20-205-106-dynip.superkabel.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1242735964 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"What are you sinking about?" < 1242736968 0 :MizardX!n=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1242739050 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1242739221 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1242739227 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!show slashes < 1242739227 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perl (sending via DCC) < 1242739343 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION realizes debugging in the inner loop may not exactly help performance
< 1242739380 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!delinterp slashes < 1242739381 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter slashes deleted. < 1242739399 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp slashes http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/slashes/slashes.pl < 1242739399 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter http___oerjan_nvg_org_esoteric_slashes_slashes_pl does not exist! < 1242739405 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!addinterp slashes perl http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/slashes/slashes.pl < 1242739408 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Interpreter slashes installed. < 1242739420 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, now that !show + DCC thing is *fancy*. < 1242739439 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fungot: Silly bot, you don't even know how to do *anything* with DCC. < 1242739440 0 :fungot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: the chip select which joystick port. this port, there are characters waiting in the table that starts at the sprite in the individual terms by performing the indicated memory location. when you turn it back on. < 1242739446 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!slashes /#/1,2,3/test # < 1242739446 0 :EgoBot!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :test 1,2,3 < 1242739744 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :!slashes http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/slashes/bct.sss < 1242739844 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok that didn't really help any < 1242740741 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1242742809 0 :jix!n=jix@p5B264803.dip.t-dialin.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1242743215 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"leaving" < 1242743253 0 :KingOfKarlsruhe!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1242745218 0 :pikhq!n=pikhq@75-106-100-192.cust.wildblue.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1242747270 0 :FireFly!n=FireFly@1-1-3-36a.tul.sth.bostream.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1242747541 0 :upyr[emacs]!n=emacs@79.174.35.21 JOIN :#esoteric < 1242747541 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1242747756 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.ssssssssssssssss < 1242747760 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :source code for snakes < 1242748227 0 :lereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like python? :o < 1242748343 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no. < 1242748353 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats source code made from snakes. < 1242748355 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :totally different thing. < 1242749204 0 :lereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1242749423 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1242749439 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this BF loop balanced or not: [>[-]+++[>++>++<<],++.<+] < 1242749447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :counting just <> it is. < 1242749448 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1242749458 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is also equal to [>[-]+++[>++>++<<]] < 1242749463 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is unbalanced < 1242749492 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(this is because the inner loop is trivially provable to be infinite and will always run (also trivial to prove) < 1242749495 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :) < 1242749599 0 :Slereah!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1242749608 0 :Slereah_!n=butt@ANantes-259-1-22-96.w92-135.abo.wanadoo.fr JOIN :#esoteric < 1242749627 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wot < 1242749631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, ? < 1242749639 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you mean balances < 1242749643 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :balanced < 1242749660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, "current cell is same before and after loop" < 1242749688 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh ok. < 1242749689 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it is you can do all sorts of optimisations in BF that you can't otherwise < 1242749764 0 :ais523!n=ais523@92-236-187-64.cable.ubr08.king.blueyonder.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1242749785 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hi ais523 < 1242749787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is [>[-]+++[>++>++<<],++.<+] balanced < 1242749798 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1242749800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but it is equal to [>[-]+++[>++>++<<]]! < 1242749802 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't < 1242749809 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I meant, balanced square brackets < 1242749816 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, balanced moves < 1242749821 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is the usual meaning < 1242749826 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, balanced moves < 1242749837 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and given that the outer loop never finishes < 1242749843 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't matter whether that loop's balanced or not < 1242749847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm indeed. < 1242749860 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :p++; while(1); p--; leaves p the same < 1242749863 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :p++; while(1); doesn't < 1242749865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh have to rewrite part of the calculator < 1242749867 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet they are the same < 1242749878 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for loop balance < 1242749908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm in fact < 1242749917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this in theory opens up lots of ways to optimise < 1242749925 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isnt there some sort of compiler you could write for this? :P < 1242749945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you know that after that outer loop anything done in it will be void. < 1242749949 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1242749950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, err what < 1242749958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, I'm writing a BF compiler... < 1242749971 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, is that what youre doing /right now/? < 1242749990 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, well right now I'm writing on irc < 1242749994 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1242749997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and writing code at the same time < 1242750009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(single core multi tasking style) < 1242750014 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1242750020 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im going to go shower, then run off. bye. :P < 1242750025 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cya < 1242750448 0 :coppro!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 110 (Connection timed out) < 1242751059 0 :inurinternet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1242752423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:52 bsmntbombdood: the 6 seconds of system time worries me < 1242752423 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:53 bsmntbombdood: i'm thinking i can do better < 1242752424 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coppro has joined (n=coppro@unaffiliated/coppro) < 1242752426 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:59 pikhq: bsmntbombdood: Uh, you do realise that file access consists of system time, right? < 1242752428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :00:59 bsmntbombdood: yes < 1242752430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :align the ssd bitch < 1242752459 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: He was feeding from /dev/urandom. < 1242752469 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :irrelevant < 1242752473 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd still help < 1242752475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it always helps < 1242752476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1242752479 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No it won't. < 1242752481 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<_< < 1242752487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: whaddya think about his grep being faster w/ HT? < 1242752488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's odd < 1242752508 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Very odd, considering that grep is single-threaded. < 1242752535 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a multithreaded grep isn't theoretically impossible < 1242752536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no, he ran multiple greps < 1242752538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1242752545 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they went twice as fast < 1242752549 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Yes, but it *is* single-threaded right now. < 1242752551 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GregorR: GregorR-L: there? < 1242752556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Somebody mailed me a copy of SICP. Now what would they mean by that...? —Guido van Rossum < 1242752560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAVE YOU READ YOUR SICP TODAY? < 1242752562 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'd imagine that grep doesn't touch the cache much. < 1242752583 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A better test would be, say, compilation. < 1242752596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want to give whoever sent gvr sicp $1m < 1242752614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: you don't have $1m < 1242752616 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, who is gvr? < 1242752621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: creator of python < 1242752621 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 megadollar? < 1242752625 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Guido van Rossum. < 1242752628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aha < 1242752635 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's ehird's answer that's more useful to me < 1242752636 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Benevolent Functional-Programming-Ignorant Dictator for Life < 1242752648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously some /prog/ger sent him SICP < 1242752649 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: He's better than some. < 1242752652 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, python has lambda... < 1242752672 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's enough to implement functional programming from first principles, if you really want to < 1242752676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"hur hur tail calls = tail recursion and can always be replaced trivially with a while loop what do you mean tailcalling another function" < 1242752677 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tbh, any TC lang is < 1242752683 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I am dropping reduce() from the base language because IT HURTS MY BRAIN" < 1242752690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I HAVE TO TURN IT INTO A FOR LOOP this is obviously reduce's f ault" < 1242752697 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... *Wha*? < 1242752700 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"also don't use map() it gives you rabies" < 1242752706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: reduce = fold, he removed it from py3k < 1242752712 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because he can only think imperatively, apparently < 1242752715 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even *Tcl* does tail call recursion these days. < 1242752723 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the name reduce or fold more common? < 1242752725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does it do general tail call optimization? < 1242752730 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's more useful than tail recursion < 1242752731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and Perl has an /operator/ for tail call optimisation < 1242752741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: reduce is what the scripting langs use, fold is what the academic languages use < 1242752744 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have to do it by hand, but it supports TCO too < 1242752749 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(granted, you do it via "tailcall" instead of calling your function, but that's because they're just a tiny bit lazy) < 1242752750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :scheme has fold, fold-right in SRFI-1 < 1242752753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haskell is even more specific < 1242752757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldl, foldr, foldl1 < 1242752759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :foldl' < 1242752760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :etc < 1242752763 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: They've got a proc to optimise it in Tcl 8.6. < 1242752784 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In current Tcl, you just have to rely on the stack not growing too large. < 1242752784 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or implement it yourself. < 1242752784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION vaguely wonders if gcc-bf does tail-call optimisation
< 1242752791 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a stack, after all < 1242752804 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my guess is it's probably capable of using gcc's built-in TCO < 1242752807 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I've never tried < 1242752808 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Tcl is rather ridiculously modifiable, after all) < 1242752816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, what I'm saying is, some hero from /prog/ gave gvr sicp as a joke. < 1242752825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~fin~ < 1242752827 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Which is totally awesome. < 1242752830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1242752849 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only hope they included the /prog/snake. Live. < 1242752854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Alive < 1242752884 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway: http://www.groklaw.net/article.php?story=20090518204959409 < 1242752887 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. Funny thing is, the only Python programmer I know well is accused of programming like Python's a Lisp... < 1242752899 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mention Alpha's terms of use on Groklaw, and then this happens < 1242752905 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have no idea whether or not it's coincidence < 1242752945 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha, in the /r/programming/ comments on the link to the tweet people are trying to understand it :-) < 1242752962 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I think it can be a reference to MIT's changes in curriculum rather than the discussion on tail recursion." < 1242753033 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it could be < 1242753047 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's totally a /prog/ger trolling him. < 1242753060 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SICP's a nice high-brow way to troll someone < 1242753067 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I've never actually read it < 1242753076 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :should I, I wonder? < 1242753082 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not now because I have unrelated exams < 1242753092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: if you can avoid testing the Scheme code on 5 different broken implementations to check it's portable, then yes < 1242753106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd recommend MIT Scheme to go through with it, since it's a very traditionalist R5RS sort of implementation. < 1242753115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's the exact subject of the book? < 1242753122 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Achieving satori. < 1242753132 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I already know quite a bit of functional programming, although I'm self-taught in it < 1242753132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But, uh, it's about the structure and interpretation of computer programs. < 1242753151 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's about the fundamental interactions between interpreters, compilers, languages, metacircular things, homoiconicism, Scheme, ... < 1242753199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But I'm not sure SICP can be called high-brow in the context of /prog/ < 1242753236 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Wikipedia sums it up well: < 1242753244 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Using a dialect of the Lisp programming language known as Scheme, the book explains core computer science concepts, including abstraction, recursion, interpreters and metalinguistic abstraction, and teaches modular programming. < 1242753245 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1242753247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The program also introduces a practical implementation of the register machine concept, defining and developing an assembler for such a construct, which is used as a virtual machine for the implementation of interpreters and compilers in the book, and as a testbed for illustrating the implementation and effect of modifications to the evaluation mechanism. Working Scheme systems based on the design described in this book are quite common student projects. < 1242753252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :]] < 1242753261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a very academic sort of book. < 1242753290 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1242753303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... I wonder if it's like UNIX < 1242753315 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in that it is possible to make something better than UNIX, but you'll almost certainly fail unless you understand UNIX first < 1242753328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think SICP is pretty much perfect. < 1242753337 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mit's website is really pretty: http://mit.edu/ < 1242753340 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, in its descriptions of how to make an interpreter < 1242753353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it doesn't really describe that < 1242753359 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh, that picture in the middle is really glaring on the eyes < 1242753361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it describes the theory of interpreters < 1242753361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just executable theory < 1242753366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1242753370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your brightness is set too high < 1242753376 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite possibly < 1242753382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it handles black on white just fine, though < 1242753386 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I have terminals set to grey on black < 1242753393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just like the logo and lowercase title, pretty much :P < 1242753394 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so seeing random white-on-black things overglares < 1242753408 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i said yesterday that I want an lcd whose off state is white, not black < 1242753416 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so that white would be soft on the eyes, not black < 1242753443 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are non-LCD screen architectures which manage that, but unfortunately they're impractical atm due to pixels taking almost a second to change colour < 1242753451 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when that's fixed, though, you may have your wish < 1242753466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but I like LCDs! < 1242753475 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about them do you like? < 1242753476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I wonder if OLED can do it? < 1242753478 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in particular/ < 1242753478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I dunno < 1242753482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're very sharp < 1242753487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pixels are very defined, not blurry < 1242753501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unlike, say, plasma displays, from what I know < 1242753527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I like subpixel rendering < 1242753539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I saw a picture where a bunch of text moved 1/3 of a pixel left each line < 1242753541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er, right < 1242753551 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by using subpixel rendering < 1242753583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so what technologies are you talking about? < 1242753596 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those flexible paper-based ones < 1242753605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: those aren't bright enough < 1242753610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and don't have good enough colour < 1242753615 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yet < 1242753621 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :isn't it inherent < 1242753635 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, the colour's physically inside the piece of paper < 1242753639 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and gets moved around < 1242753649 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, which displays are we talking about here? < 1242753652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amazon Kindle-style? < 1242753656 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1242753666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they use real paper? < 1242753667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are you sure? < 1242753668 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're about good enough to use for something like the Kindle atm < 1242753679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not quite sure if it's chemically the same as paper < 1242753684 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it has similar physical properties < 1242753686 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe a bit stronger < 1242753701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmmmmmmmmmmmmwell. < 1242753708 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno. < 1242753711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What about OLEDs? < 1242753713 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They use "organic" light. < 1242753725 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Light that's fairly traded and not using chemicals, I suppose :-P < 1242753742 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: they use organic chemicals, rather than inorganic chemicals < 1242753757 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was joking < 1242753773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where organic = based around carbon chains < 1242753802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Optimus Maximus keyboard developed by the Art. Lebedev Studio and released early 2008 uses 113 48×48-pixel OLEDs (10.1×10.1 mm) for its keys. < 1242753804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :didn't know that < 1242753812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :too bad it's a shit keyboard < 1242753818 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1242753824 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems engineered to be as expensive as possible < 1242753826 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than actually useful < 1242753828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who looks at their keys, anyway? < 1242753830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I sure don't < 1242753844 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I do on occasion to hit the home row < 1242753853 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's faster than feeling for it if I took my hands off the keyboard for any reason < 1242753858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my style is too weird for things like home rows :-) < 1242753859 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I am now, because you got me thinking about it... < 1242753865 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: so's mine < 1242753867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: on a similar note, you're breathing < 1242753869 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, blinking < 1242753871 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my fingers need to start somewhere < 1242753873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have fun < 1242753882 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: blinking doesn't work on me, although the breathing thing does < 1242753906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, your heart is beating. < 1242753917 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm incapable of making my heart beat manually < 1242753925 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well that's your problem! < 1242753925 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it'll just continue on auto, as always < 1242754077 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: do you have your heart on manual? < 1242754080 0 :inurinternet!n=nuri@cpe-75-85-210-179.dc.res.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1242754089 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: no, I'm fairly sure that would be an emergency < 1242754096 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can _anyone_ do that? < 1242754100 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so why is it a problem if I don't? < 1242754114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because I told you it's beating so it's stopped now! < 1242754116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and although it's not quite on manual, some people have learnt to be able to control the speed with mental effort < 1242754118 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's still beating, well, quantum immortality. < 1242754142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :including stopping it for a few seconds < 1242754152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one skill I'm happy not to have < 1242754160 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure how useful that is, but presumably there's some reason they learnt it < 1242754164 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's more important than party tricks < 1242754379 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: everyone has some voluntary control over their blood flow < 1242754392 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't that I'm aware of < 1242754396 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the heart doesn't push hard enough in order to get the blood all the way back up your legs < 1242754413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :therefore, you have to keep moving your legs or feet (although only a few centimeters every few minutes is enough) < 1242754417 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to stop all the blood getting stuck there < 1242754426 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :people occasionally faint from standing too still as a result < 1242754442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1242754448 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's not what I'd call voluntary < 1242754450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a side-effect < 1242754465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's sort of like saying putting your head in a paper bag is a way to voluntarily stop breathing < 1242754486 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1242754532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Somebody mailed me a copy of SICP. Now what would they mean by that...? —Guido van Rossum < 1242754532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : HAVE YOU READ YOUR SICP TODAY? < 1242754533 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :awesome < 1242754668 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : ais523: reduce is what the scripting langs use, fold is what the academic languages use <-- which category do you put erlang in. < 1242754675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't know erlang < 1242754679 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: does it use reduce or fold? < 1242754687 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I suspect it counts as academic, given its history < 1242754692 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although company-academic, not university-academic < 1242754718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, fold < 1242754739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yes, it's "company research" < 1242754748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than "university department of language research" < 1242754834 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think we're all agreeing, that's nice to see < 1242754845 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if a little unusual < 1242754850 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh I found a bug in this wireless telephone. < 1242754857 0 :Judofyr!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1242754863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: wut < 1242754874 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :After you held down the "end call" button for 10 seconds it goes into a "mode" where every button you press cause the screen backlighting to flicker and an odd short noise to be emitted. Loudly. < 1242754874 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: technically I think that means we died and went to heaven < 1242754884 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like a mix between beep and static noise < 1242754895 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh, that's probably a feature to stop you redialing after an argument, or something. I bet a marketroid came up with it. :-P < 1242754898 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only way to make it exit the mode is take out the batteries and reinsert them < 1242754912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "end call" not "begin call" < 1242754928 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it does sound like the definition of some features I've heard, but they wouldn't do it like that < 1242754939 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't see it being a "feature"... < 1242754942 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:40 Ami: Antibiotic culture charged with failure to comply with the anticivic reportioning and reclamation decrees. < 1242754943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:41 Ami: Jevanic polysyndicates post-charged for post-modern pseudosymbolism and monoreference. < 1242754944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:41 Ami: Citizens, reminder. Inaction is conspiracy. Report counterbehaviour to your nearest stabilization delegate or workforce intake hub for full ration reward. < 1242754946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly a test mode. < 1242754947 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :↑ this is basically what Sine is like all the time. or rather not, but it feels like it sometimes < 1242754948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That is possible < 1242754950 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I was joking < 1242754952 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :many cars, for instance, have a feature that if you hold down the lock button on the keys for long enough it sets the alarm off as loud as it can and there's no way to stop it for several minutes < 1242754957 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can use your car as a sort of rape alarm < 1242754962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a bit ridiculous < 1242754964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :car rape alarm < 1242754970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :three words I never thought I'd see consecutively < 1242754998 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm trying to figure out what Ami is saying there, but failing < 1242755013 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Ami is a bot, although I think those lines are either from a preset list, or entered manually by an operator < 1242755021 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of, say, a markov chain < 1242755022 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although the third line reminds me a bit of Paranoia XP < 1242755026 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the general < 1242755027 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theme < 1242755035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:59 Cyclic bulletin file is missing. < 1242755035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:59 Civic presence at 11 opt-ins and 16 opt-outs on 3 zoning enforcercement spars. < 1242755036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:59 1 stabilization delegate(s) in position. < 1242755038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:59 19 biotic cultures < 1242755041 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:59 Controlling therapy for 5 civic opt-ins with 1 zoning enforcement spars. < 1242755042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:59 Local civic biomass: 5 Max: 9 < 1242755044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :16:59 Civic mass: 27 Max: 30 < 1242755046 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the connection process < 1242755053 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it could be a computer game, I suppose < 1242755056 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it isn't, but it could be < 1242755058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although most of the time Ami just hands out awards for having been the last person to said something for ages < 1242755061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I found a test mode on a synth recently. It displayed TEST on the LCD. Then it played all tones, did a stepless "gliding" of a pure tone from ~40 Hz to well out of hearing range. After that it tested all LED segments on the display one by one. Then it shut down. < 1242755075 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how to trigger it: Hold the setting button down while you powered it on < 1242755088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i've always wanted a speaker that I could play tunes out of the range of hearing on < 1242755101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least they couldn't be discordant < 1242755115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm? I tested range with a microphone < 1242755126 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it registered tones long after I didn't hear anything < 1242755282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * TaskManager will be replaced by TaskFreak!, dotProject and Trac < 1242755282 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(tickets). < 1242755283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * DocManager will be replaced by MediaWiki and Trac (wiki). < 1242755285 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Discussion Forums will be replaced by phpBB. < 1242755287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : * Diary and Notes will be replaced by WordPress. < 1242755291 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well, SF are removing the awful forums, but replacing them with ... phpBB. < 1242755297 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh my < 1242755302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they moved into 2000! < 1242755303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know which is worst < 1242755311 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :phpBB is excellent feature-wise, but truly awful code-wise < 1242755311 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1242755322 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they will remove the bug tracker for any projects using it? < 1242755325 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the features are mostly useless bloat < 1242755326 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is taskmanager something else < 1242755333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "tickets" < 1242755335 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so bug tracker will disappear < 1242755344 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and tbh, just replacing the whole thing with trac would probably be an improvement < 1242755348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and any projects using it? What will happen then < 1242755349 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even though it doesn't have a forum < 1242755354 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dunno. Migration? < 1242755359 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mhm hope so < 1242755362 0 :tombom!i=tombom@86.6.95.126 JOIN :#esoteric < 1242755366 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: moving to trac being an improvement is a sign of a truly awful situation :) < 1242755387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trac isn't bad, it's just bland < 1242755395 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's good enough, but not much better < 1242755395 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :trac eats ram. < 1242755401 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :200 MB for the fcgi process < 1242755403 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I didn't know that < 1242755403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno, I'm not a fan of its UI and general concept-y stuff. < 1242755407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's very mediocre. < 1242755412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: mediocre is a good word < 1242755419 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then, I don't consider mediocre to be bad < 1242755422 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's perfectly cromulent < 1242755444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and if you think that's not actually a real real word, wiktionary lists it under "English": http://en.wiktionary.org/wiki/cromulent < 1242755460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, cromulent? < 1242755461 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cromulent is a real word < 1242755464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Cromulent. < 1242755477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :aspell doesn't think it exists. Must be pretty rare < 1242755486 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's a neologism, but one that caught on < 1242755486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wiktionary confirms it. < 1242755490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like Netcraft < 1242755490 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means roughly "makes sense" < 1242755498 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Principal Skinner: He's embiggened that role with his cromulent performance. < 1242755500 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that Wiktionary article has a big "do not trust this" box at the top < 1242755501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nope, it means "fine" < 1242755510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1242755511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, I'm selectively blind. < 1242755514 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: well, as a neologism, I wouldn't expect it to have a consistent meaning < 1242755525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: in the same episode that coined it? < 1242755530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"it's a perfectly fine word" works too < 1242755538 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, as in "legitimate" < 1242755550 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :perfectly legitimate performance? < 1242755554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that doesn't really imply "good" < 1242755559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suppose you could translate "cromulent" to "there's nothing wrong with it" < 1242755566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the implication to me is not "good", but "acceptable" < 1242755576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's like a weak "good" < 1242755583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you embiggen a role, obviously you did quite well < 1242755598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw, reality check: we're arguing about the definition of a word coined on The Simpsons < 1242755765 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: link to that list of video cards ordered by awesome? < 1242755770 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :finnish thing < 1242755779 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :jathardware.com < 1242755793 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanksinyou < 1242755824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: it lists the GeForce 9800GTX+ as below the 4770, but it's actually competitive-and-sometimes-better with the 4850 < 1242755825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :odd < 1242755826 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The links that say "nopeusjärjestys" ("awesome order") are the ones you want < 1242755847 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Well, they're in the same category < 1242755852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true < 1242755853 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So they're clearly competitive < 1242755863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the 4770 is a lot worse than both the 4850 and the 9800GTX+ from what I've seen < 1242755872 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The ???? means he doesn't know whether the 4770 is better or worse than the 4850 < 1242755878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1242755885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: wait, does it really translate as awesome order? < 1242755888 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I was joking < 1242755888 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the space between 4770 and 9800 means he thinks the 9800 is a bit worse < 1242755893 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: No, it doesn't :-P < 1242755904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :17:58 Deewiant: And the space between 4770 and 9800 means he thinks the 9800 is a bit worse ← ati fan? :p < 1242755925 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ------ is the only "true" separator < 1242755929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sure. < 1242755932 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everything else is kinda variable < 1242755936 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: no, wrong number of -s < 1242755938 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it should be ---- < 1242755943 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or -- for a sig separator < 1242755947 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually ----- < 1242755950 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On that page < 1242755962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, they're wrong < 1242755964 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they should have used 4 < 1242755975 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why's that < 1242756029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It lists the 9800 GTX+ one category below the 8800 GTX. What I've read suggests the opposite. < 1242756035 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :odd. < 1242756042 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: because 4 is standard! < 1242756048 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What standard < 1242756080 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: The list is mostly about the hardware used < 1242756083 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Alex Smith standard. < 1242756088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Ah. < 1242756106 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I.e. if one has more MHz than another but is otherwise identical it'll be higher, regardless of what tests say < 1242756113 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: ... but the 9800 GTX+ is a G92 and the 8800 GTX is a G90. < 1242756116 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Although in that case I'd be surprised if tests said it should be the other way) < 1242756120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :One came out last year, the other in late 2006. < 1242756129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm incredibly surprised that it would be considered better by any measure. < 1242756202 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It seems that the 8800 GTX has 86.4 GB/s bandwidth whereas the 9800 GTX+ has 70.4 < 1242756223 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Other than that, the latter is indeed advertised as better. < 1242756227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... it is? < 1242756245 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Higher clock, fill rate, etc. < 1242756258 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Based on a quick browse of nvidia.com, anyway < 1242756261 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm amused that people can get so involved in high-ending their computers < 1242756273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: this is mid-range < 1242756273 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the graphics card on here's an Intel 915 < 1242756279 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which isn't even powerful enough to run Vista, really < 1242756286 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and which I suspect is obsolete nowadays < 1242756289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I want to play certain games, certain games that a lesser card would give me bad FPS on; I have researched this :-P < 1242756316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but god I hate the naming systems < 1242756329 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9800 GTX+ < 8800 GTX, yes, a higher number and a + means it's worse! < 1242756331 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :agreed, graphics card naming is almost impossible to fathom < 1242756354 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION vaguely wonders if AnMaster even has a 3D graphics card
< 1242756356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4770? that's better than the 4830! why? because of the technology used inside, not the actual market, duh! < 1242756362 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: he has some GeForce 7780 or something < 1242756364 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Both ATI and nVidia have a 9600 GT, at least < 1242756371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: they do? < 1242756372 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha < 1242756374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes... < 1242756376 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ATI's is some two-three years old < 1242756380 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nVidia's is fairly new < 1242756381 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GeForce 7600 GS < 1242756389 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, older than that, I think < 1242756390 0 :oerjan!n=oerjan@hagbart.nvg.ntnu.no JOIN :#esoteric < 1242756391 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: And CPU naming is getting crazy, too. < 1242756394 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But anyway. < 1242756398 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I blame AMD for purchasing ATi. < 1242756399 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well, it used to work on IC names < 1242756404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now, if 8800 is better than 9800, you'd expect 7600 to be even better right? < 1242756405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :noooooooooooooooooooooooooo! < 1242756406 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which also don't make a whole lot of sense, normally < 1242756414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as they were originally designed just to be unique, not ordered < 1242756455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: I'm googling, everyone's saying the 8800 GTX is good but not as good as the 9800 GTX, let alone the 9800 GTX+ < 1242756455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : now, if 8800 is better than 9800, you'd expect 7600 to be even better right? <-- In that case my old GeForce 3 Ti 200 would be AWESOME < 1242756469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sadly it is no longer functional < 1242756472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: shit man, Voodoo cards! < 1242756474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why I changed to this card I have < 1242756482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what was before that < 1242756486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyone remember games installing an extra menu item for Glide? < 1242756488 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I doooooo < 1242756510 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, Glide? I remember seeing something about Glide in mupen64... but that is all < 1242756525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Glide is the 3dfx Voodoo cards' hardware-based implementation of some OpenGL calls < 1242756531 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh < 1242756571 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :theory: someone should write a generic graphics card < 1242756581 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which automatically optimises graphicsy stuff < 1242756593 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you can use pure-software implementations of the renderer, and it runs really fast anyway < 1242756599 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that way it's future-proof to standards improvements < 1242756601 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: err, graphics cards ARE generic < 1242756604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to a large degree < 1242756608 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I mean, even more than that < 1242756610 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a reason they're called -PUs < 1242756729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: http://i7.techpowerup.com/reviews/Zotac/GeForce_9800_GTX_Plus_Amp_Edition/images/crysis_1920_1200.gif < 1242756734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9800 GTX+ is 22.6 FPS < 1242756735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and, wait for it < 1242756738 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the 8800 GTX is < 1242756740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22.6 FPS < 1242756742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Amazing. < 1242756755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hey, it has about 200MB more memory with which to be at the same FPS, though. < 1242756802 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... does crysis automatically try to run at the fastest FPS possible? < 1242756815 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :DNA Maze runs at 20 FPS, for instance, even if the hardware is capable of more < 1242756828 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which it is, considering how simple the graphics are < 1242756881 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Most games don't have FPS limiters. < 1242756917 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, there's nothing animated in DNA Maze < 1242756918 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Personally, I'm in favor of limiting FPS to the monitor's refresh rate. < 1242756928 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Updating in the middle of a refresh just looks like shit. < 1242756930 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nothing changes faster than once every 5ms < 1242756937 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Which means what, exactly, on LCDs < 1242756958 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: LCDs still have a 'refresh rate'. < 1242756959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so limiting to 20 FPS means that updates can happen exactly when they need to < 1242756962 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than waiting until the next frame < 1242756969 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They can only update the LCD so often. < 1242757008 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes that FPS might be a better unit than hertz for this purpose, but alas, LCDs themselves are still statted in Hz refresh rate.
< 1242757069 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's 60 Hz for just about all LCDs, isn't it < 1242757107 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not all LCDs. < 1242757113 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Though that is the norm. < 1242757119 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:10:39 is this BF loop balanced or not: [>[-]+++[>++>++<<],++.<+] < 1242757126 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :08:10:58 it is also equal to [>[-]+++[>++>++<<]] < 1242757139 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it is balanced < 1242757156 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'd say the first is clearly balanced, and the second is then essentially balanced < 1242757163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, interesting. < 1242757185 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second could be phrased as: a loop that never finishes is balanced for most purposes < 1242757219 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's balanced for the purpose of optimising, anyway < 1242757231 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the first is syntactically balanced < 1242757231 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you get past the loop, the tape pointer didn't move < 1242757253 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the second is logically balanced if you define that as "ends up in the same place _if_ it finishes" < 1242757261 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1242757265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is a good definition < 1242757331 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially for optimisation purposes. < 1242757334 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :btw the second relies on cell size being even :D < 1242757366 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there is nothing that says every bf variant _needs_ to use a power of 2 >:) < 1242757390 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably this one does, though < 1242757395 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1242757529 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i vaguely recall redcode uses a prime, at least for memory size, maybe FukYourBrane could use the same < 1242757571 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: FukYorBrane has a prime number of possibilities for each tape element, I think < 1242757582 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas BF Joust uses 256, partially because it needs to be even < 1242757593 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(as i recall, because this prevents you avoiding your own code just by placement with a fixed step scan) < 1242757614 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no, redcode has a power of 2 for memory size < 1242757622 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, wrong again < 1242757627 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's round but not a power of 2 < 1242757628 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such as 8000 < 1242757679 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it were a multiple of 256, say, you could just move a little bit off your code, and then move right 256, kill & destroy, repeat < 1242757714 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you would only hit enemies < 1242757724 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: that's a common tactic < 1242757727 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but using small numbers like 4 < 1242757731 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than large numbers like 256 < 1242757737 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :256 is likely to miss your enemies too < 1242757741 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i just realized that < 1242757746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw, have you noticed google maps work without js? < 1242757756 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if you were here when it was discussed < 1242757776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it's balanced for the purpose of optimising, anyway <-- not exactly. It is unbalanced for some optimisations < 1242757794 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: which? < 1242757794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of those working inside the loop < 1242757802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18:13 ais523: hmm... does crysis automatically try to run at the fastest FPS possible? < 1242757804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1242757813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but most games have vsync (= limit to my LCD's fps) < 1242757856 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: The second doesn't rely on cell size being even, assuming cells wrap. < 1242757859 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok maybe they decided that was fun and made it a reason for _not_ using a prime < 1242757865 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It relies on cell size being *greater than 2*. < 1242757874 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm. Greater than 3. < 1242757885 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: by cell size i mean number of possible values, not bits < 1242757903 0 :asiekierka!i=asiekier@078088180066.elblag.vectranet.pl JOIN :#esoteric < 1242757907 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if it's odd and wrapping, then that _will_ eventually reach 0 again < 1242757908 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hi < 1242757914 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais5523: How's the scorelist < 1242757923 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :did anyone write their own BF Joust stuff < 1242757923 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan: [>++>++<<] < 1242757926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : btw the second relies on cell size being even :D <-- where does it do that? < 1242757928 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, it won't.' < 1242757937 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes it will < 1242757947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, index_diff = unchanged < 1242757948 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It doesn't do anything to the cell that's being tested. < 1242757950 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :look at it < 1242757963 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: oh, i misread < 1242757964 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What are you talking about? < 1242757972 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bah < 1242757994 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The cell values needs to not be 3 for it to run. < 1242757997 0 :Corun!n=Corun@94-194-29-31.zone8.bethere.co.uk JOIN :#esoteric < 1242758001 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1242758002 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought it did like [++>++<] < 1242758011 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@e-244.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1242758011 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"8800 GTX XXX Edition" < 1242758014 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1242758025 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION shan't behold.
< 1242758028 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, well that one I can't yet detect as infinite, haven't implemented that type of optimisation of it yet. < 1242758038 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION swats some glory -----###
< 1242758044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XCorp 8800 GTX XXXXX Xdition < 1242758055 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ah < 1242758061 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I see some code for it in esotope-bfc, but it messes up my head trying to work it out < 1242758065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could do it trivially < 1242758080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is mathy stuff ;P < 1242758100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just greatest common divisor < 1242758103 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: actually that one _isn't_ infinite for all initial values, regardless < 1242758110 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only for odd ones < 1242758115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Everyone should know GCD < 1242758119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, yes < 1242758119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, http://rafb.net/p/6pRr7k45.html < 1242758120 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it needs context < 1242758145 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I have context: I know the index cell is a constant already < 1242758150 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the constant propagation pass told me < 1242758174 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I know how gcd is defined < 1242758208 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah i noticed < 1242758234 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, otherwise I wouldn't have been able to remove the stuff after the infinite loop above. < 1242758270 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know, I wnnt to make a Boolf**k machine < 1242758273 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want* < 1242758288 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that paste also requires you to know the Euclidean algorithm with coefficients < 1242758316 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for let u * m + v * w = gcd(m,w)) < 1242758316 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I only wonder how will I do the I/O < 1242758333 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*extended Euclidean algorithm < 1242758351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I'm not familiar with "extended gcd" < 1242758360 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION googles
< 1242758364 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's not the gcd that is extended < 1242758383 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the algorithm for finding it that is extended so you get the other coefficients in that equation < 1242758392 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mhm < 1242758429 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is very useful for solving linear integer equations < 1242758455 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION compares the 8800 Ultra w/ the 9800 GTX+
< 1242758470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, *reads on wikipedia* < 1242758490 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: Serial line. < 1242758496 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Assuming it's on an FPGA. < 1242758499 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not hard to do. < 1242758511 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The worst thing about picking a graphics card is that gamers don't know the meaning of grammar. < 1242758517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"9800GTX+ is faster than 8800 Ultra"←kay < 1242758530 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that seems fine? < 1242758538 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that was a separate thing < 1242758543 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: It's using 7400 series and the like < 1242758547 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two different lines < 1242758550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you might want to add some "the" though < 1242758552 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but ok < 1242758553 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I wanted to do a LED < 1242758557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought it was an example < 1242758567 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly two buttons to do < and > manually < 1242758579 0 :inurinternet!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1242758611 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: I suggest a bank of 8 toggle switches. < 1242758636 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, and a button to enter it in. < 1242758644 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Output via 8 LEDs. < 1242758660 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :...Why 8 LEDs? < 1242758670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A byte. < 1242758671 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A char. < 1242758675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A byte. < 1242758676 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know < 1242758679 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: btw that is the basis for several of the algorithms in [[Brainfuck constants]] on the wiki < 1242758681 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm doing Boolf**k. < 1242758681 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A char can be any size > 8 bits, pikhq. < 1242758688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: Boolfuck outputs in bytes. < 1242758701 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm < 1242758707 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Outputs the bit under the pointer to the output stream. The bits get output in little-endian order, the same order in which they would be input. If the total number of bits output is not a multiple of eight at the end of the program, the last character of output gets padded with zeros on the more significant end. If the end-of-file character has been input, outputs a zero to the bit under the pointer. < 1242758708 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It just builds those bytes up 8 at a time. < 1242758718 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/8/bits/ < 1242758719 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(for finding multiplicative inverses mod 256) < 1242758752 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I see the algorithm on wikipedia for it. I understand it. But I don't understand why it is useful :/ < 1242758851 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Ehh? < 1242758854 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: as i said, it's useful for finding the integer solutions to linear equations < 1242758857 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So I am not implementing Boolf**k < 1242758869 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am implementing a variation of BF operating on bits, also in I/O < 1242758881 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: or do you mean useful for brainfuck? < 1242758895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, both :/ < 1242758916 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but actually < 1242758924 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is there anything better (or easier) to implement < 1242758929 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :better as in more useful < 1242758934 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no not Befunge < 1242758936 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that calls for FPGAs < 1242758966 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see, if you have something like [-]+++[---->++++++<] < 1242758999 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I think i will make an OISC < 1242759005 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: As in more useful? < 1242759006 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Brainfuck proper. < 1242759011 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in easier? OISC. < 1242759024 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: But both of these have been done! < 1242759032 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The latter on 7400 series, too < 1242759046 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As in cooler? Malbolge. < 1242759074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, How does it help for the compiler wanting to find if loop is finite or infinite.. That is the bit I don't understand. < 1242759087 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I don't have a house big enough to store wirewrapped 7400 series chips for Malbolge! < 1242759094 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then that is essentially solving the problem: is there a y such that 3+4*y = 256*k ? < 1242759100 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... *Wirewrapped* < 1242759102 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh. < 1242759105 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1242759108 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not necessairly < 1242759110 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe proto'd < 1242759114 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I'm trying to NOT solder < 1242759114 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, ah. I see < 1242759126 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fine, then. Create your own architecture. < 1242759132 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Port a C compiler to it. < 1242759136 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and if so, the result is 5* the smallest such y < 1242759147 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh, seems like my i7 965 XE and the 9800 GTX+ will suck up >430W at load, so I need a diff power supply < 1242759157 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I don't have a year to waste (See: BMOW) < 1242759158 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If you're feeling especially motivated, port Minix to it. < 1242759164 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, 5* the smallest such? < 1242759167 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Magic-1. :) < 1242759169 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1242759170 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1242759173 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: er, 6 < 1242759174 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't have time, either (See: Magic-1) < 1242759176 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.homebrewcpu.com/ < 1242759180 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i miscounted my +'s < 1242759182 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1242759183 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: get a nehalem xeon < 1242759184 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I also don't want something very hard (See: both) < 1242759192 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: Be hard-core! < 1242759201 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so i don't know what to do, really < 1242759201 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : see, if you have something like [-]+++[---->++++++<] < 1242759206 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want something simple but useful < 1242759207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm. The fact that I'm representing - as "add 255" makes this slightly complex I think... < 1242759209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood_: Why? All that buys me is ECC (= slower ram), another $500 out of my pocket, having to buy a server motherboard, and lameness. < 1242759213 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm entirely sure you can write a C compiler for OISC < 1242759216 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood_: Also, I doubt it'll suck up LESS watts... < 1242759228 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: [two] xeons < 1242759243 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood_: Make that another $2,000 out of my pocket vs an i7. < 1242759247 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even more wattage. < 1242759247 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh. well in principle multiples of 256 don't matter (you could do most of this with (mod 256) arithmetic) < 1242759251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And even more on the mobo. < 1242759255 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: Oh, I'm sure you could. < 1242759262 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe even get LLVM to target it. < 1242759289 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, only a 9800? < 1242759298 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood_: no, not only a 9800 < 1242759299 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, it makes stuff easier elsewhere to not have any "add -1" or similar. Since erlang is all bignum it is a pain to make sure the range of merged nodes have the proper value if negative. Much easier if the code only needs to deal with positive values. < 1242759311 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood_: a 9800GTX+, which is competitive-with-and-sometimes-better than a Radeon HD 4850 < 1242759324 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's like a year old < 1242759324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9800GTX+ >>>>>>> 9800GTX >>>> 9800GT < 1242759328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood_: yes. Yes it is. < 1242759333 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So's the 4870 and it still screams. < 1242759335 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh. well adding 255 might actually fit this equation slightly better < 1242759344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, really? hm < 1242759349 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood_: And I want something I can cool passively with the Accelero S1 Rev2. < 1242759365 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since you then only have a few variables to worry about being negative < 1242759378 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood_: Besides, the 9800GTX+ manages Crysis @ 1920x1080 at 41fps (with some settings bumped up, IIRC) < 1242759383 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So it's not exactly crappy. < 1242759389 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : 9800GTX+ >>>>>>> 9800GTX >>>> 9800GT <-- can be simplified into a + But that is a dead store. So generated code could be int main(void) { return 0; } < 1242759391 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION runs
< 1242759391 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dunno what crysis is < 1242759396 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: wait, did i say +4? i meant -4 < 1242759404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood_: An incredibly GPU-intensive game. < 1242759418 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even the 4870X2 (two 4870s stuck together) can't max out all of the settings to the very max and still be playable at 1920x1080. < 1242759418 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: but you could make that 4*255*y to fit your framework perfectly < 1242759434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe GTX 295 in 3xSLI could do it < 1242759448 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: did you literally run or just joking? < 1242759452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, hm... only thing that can be negative is offset, and mov nodes (< is {mov, -1} basically) < 1242759470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : AnMaster: did you literally run or just joking? <-- ehird's line? Joking. < 1242759479 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes joking < 1242759482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about the run < 1242759499 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i assume so, unless you have a very portable irc client < 1242759507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :-_- < 1242759510 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which people might, nowadays < 1242759533 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood_: So I don't know what you meant by the 9800GTX+ not being good. < 1242759533 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.arctic-cooling.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=2_&mID=101. < 1242759539 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that's a big cooler < 1242759544 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's just old < 1242759554 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood_: Dude, there aren't many graphics cards much newer than it. < 1242759561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood_: Heck, the i7 came out last year! < 1242759574 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there's nothing newer than it < 1242759583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood_: The i7 came out *18 months ago* < 1242759586 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so you are not having anything negative, which means you do all loop checks by checking if things are divisible by 256, i assume < 1242759587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And newer != better. < 1242759600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The 9800GTX+ is a powerful card, and the most powerful you can cool with the S1 Rev.2 apart from a 4870. < 1242759605 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, um? < 1242759613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood_: that is not a big cooler < 1242759616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood_: http://www.arctic-cooling.com/catalog/product_info.php?cPath=2_&mID=105 this is a big cooler < 1242759620 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: why do you want it passive? < 1242759629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in ctx: http://www.ngohq.com/attachments/news/769d1198274397-arctic-cooling-launches-accelero-s1-rev-2-100_1050.jpg) < 1242759631 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, I have a cleanup pass that runs after all the node merging passes which adjusts out of range values < 1242759632 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so 3 + (4*255)*y = 256*k fits what you would do with [-]+++[---->++++++<] < 1242759643 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh damn, that is a big cooler < 1242759643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :optimise([#bfn{ ins = add, val = Val } = H|T], Result) < 1242759643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : when Val > 255 -> < 1242759643 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : optimise(T, [H#bfn{val = Val rem 256 } |Result]); < 1242759645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that < 1242759653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood_: For silence. Plus, I don't really need more performance than the 9800GTX+. Barely anyone except HARDKOR LEET GAMERZ do. < 1242759662 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: oh well. anyway that just becomes an additive constant to k, which we don't care about < 1242759663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and irc client messed up indention < 1242759663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So since I _can_ cool it passively... < 1242759667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yeah. < 1242759670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It is gigantic. < 1242759674 0 :bsmntbombdood_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: and hardcore elite scientists < 1242759680 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want to make a 16-command no-parameter set < 1242759682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bsmntbombdood_: they use PS3 clusters ;-) < 1242759684 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably sort of extended BF < 1242759718 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: btw of course that equation has no integer solution < 1242759718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, and you lost me. Best way is to try to replicate what esotope-bfc did here. Since it is in python it also has bignums iirc. < 1242759739 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not sure if it uses -1 or +255 though < 1242759740 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: was that paste from esotope-bfc? < 1242759744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: do you know anything about mathematics? :) < 1242759749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oerjan, the comment? yes < 1242759752 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest addition to an address, subtraction from an address, and conditional jumping. < 1242759763 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Only marginally easier than Brainfuck! < 1242759775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, some, but the Swedish school system sucks. Ending high school without knowing about linear algebra < 1242759775 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::( < 1242759790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Can't suck as much as the UK system. < 1242759796 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh well < 1242759800 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But tbh, I'm rather maths-retarded myself; mostly learned from WP. < 1242759800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'd say it is equally bad < 1242759807 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: One can finish university without knowing about linear algebra. < 1242759811 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I currently have NOP, NOP, <, >, +, -, M->A, A->M < 1242759832 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes back to web browsing
< 1242759843 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and SKP - Skip the next command < 1242759845 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: are there any instruction sets that don't have zero params on all instructions that have a constant length? < 1242759847 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is, nop is 00 00 < 1242759848 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, depends on what you study. Lawyer? Certainly. CS? No. < 1242759851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to pad out for the argument, say < 1242759858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: CS involves linear algebra? < 1242759860 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I use 4 bits per command < 1242759864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, easier for you to learn from WP. It is your native language. < 1242759867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Coulda fooled me < 1242759875 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, isn't there a wikipedia in Swedish? < 1242759878 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1242759880 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, at least CS here has linear algebra < 1242759883 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes but it sucks < 1242759883 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It is mandatory for most CS degrees. < 1242759883 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1242759886 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: well yeah < 1242759890 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I guess I'm just cynical < 1242759894 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since there are a lot of idiots doing CS < 1242759895 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 1) very incomplete 2) should be called "Simple Swedish" < 1242759907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:04 ehird: pikhq: are there any instruction sets that don't have zero params on all instructions that have a constant length? < 1242759907 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:04 ehird: that is, nop is 00 00 < 1242759946 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what is the context... < 1242759958 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :assuming time is UTC I can't find it < 1242759959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: none < 1242759967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: AnMaster: One can finish university without knowing about linear algebra. < 1242759967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:03 asiekierka: Well, I currently have NOP, NOP, <, >, +, -, M->A, A->M < 1242759968 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:03 oerjan goes back to web browsing < 1242759970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:04 asiekierka: and SKP - Skip the next command < 1242759972 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:04 ehird: pikhq: are there any instruction sets that don't have zero params on all instructions that have a constant length? < 1242759975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, today? < 1242759975 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:04 ehird: that is, nop is 00 00 < 1242759977 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:04 AnMaster: pikhq, depends on what you study. Lawyer? Certainly. CS? No. < 1242759979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:04 ehird: to pad out for the argument, say < 1242759981 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1242759983 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, no < 1242759983 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A few fucking seconds ago! < 1242759985 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no SKP < 1242759987 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now there's < 1242759989 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's 19:06 < 1242760001 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah right < 1242760002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there < 1242760005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm < 1242760010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I thought it was UTC < 1242760014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what are the addresses of eax,etc on x86? are they constant? < 1242760023 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SNZ (Skip if A != 0), SKZ (Skip if A = 0), JMP (to set address), SKP (just skip), SAH (A->high byte of addr), SAL (A->low byte of addr) < 1242760029 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have 0000-1101 occupied < 1242760030 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, addresses of eax? < 1242760034 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :cuz i have 2 nops currently < 1242760040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: addresses of eax, etc. < 1242760041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is a register. You can't have a pointer to a register < 1242760043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you know what etc. means? < 1242760045 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so 2 commands more < 1242760047 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what can I add? < 1242760052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not neccessarily < 1242760053 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1242760056 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Add A to cell and Subtract A from cell < 1242760057 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you could have a ptr-to-register just fine < 1242760062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, memory mapped registers yeah < 1242760062 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by reserving the first N bytes of memory-space < 1242760068 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but iirc x86 doesn't have that < 1242760080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems like a logical design decision < 1242760080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, also that would mess up NULL pointers badly < 1242760083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :instead of having 3 instructions < 1242760085 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :constant, memory and register < 1242760087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well it could work with non-zero null < 1242760088 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can just have < 1242760092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that would be messy < 1242760092 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :constant, memoyr < 1242760094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*memory < 1242760097 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: last N bytes, then < 1242760115 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, of the possible address space, not real memory installed right? < 1242760120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: right < 1242760133 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could work. But iirc x86 doesn't do it like that < 1242760138 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :x86 is in fact a mess < 1242760147 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So the opcodes are NOP, MVL, MVR, ADM, SBM, PLA, PHA, SNZ, SKZ, JMP, SKP, SAH, SAL, ADA, SBA < 1242760201 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: actually, all opcodes being two bytes wouldn't work < 1242760207 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need it to be >machine word < 1242760210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for load-into-X < 1242760210 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, setting an address is just setting them in 2 cells and then you can just do PLA, SAL, MVR, PLA, SAH, if you store low-high < 1242760231 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if high-low, swap SAH and SAL < 1242760278 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so to set a cell to 3 you do ADM ADM ADM < 1242760305 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to clear the cell you do (assuming $0000 is command 1, $0001 is command 2...) < 1242760316 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or nah < 1242760318 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is a mess < 1242760320 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and won't work < 1242760323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kay, instruction = 5 bytes < 1242760338 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: think I should align at a boundary more than "byte"? :P < 1242760381 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Kilobyte. < 1242760387 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: per instruction‽‽‽‽ < 1242760391 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm, i'd rather 3 bytes tbh... < 1242760405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: any idea how to do a load-word-into-X when I can only pass a pointer? < 1242760407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not a value :-P < 1242760409 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION creates an architecture with 32-bit aligned instructions.
< 1242760414 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And 8 bits. < 1242760419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, maybe: < 1242760419 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Erm.\ < 1242760422 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8-bit addressing. < 1242760424 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1242760429 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a nop is 00 XXXX, where the XXXX is just ignored < 1242760431 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now < 1242760435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOAD looks at the next instruction < 1242760435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1242760439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOAD ptr; NOP value; < 1242760440 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>:D < 1242760457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: discuss my evility < 1242760459 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, x86 has very varying instruction size < 1242760465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yep < 1242760467 0 :MizardX-!n=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1242760470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh not talking about x86= < 1242760471 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1242760472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to make the cpu not have to guess about it < 1242760475 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i'm designing an instruction set < 1242760482 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where all instructions are exactly the same length < 1242760487 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that's OP XXXX < 1242760487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you could do all loads from memory :D < 1242760492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's just enough to store one pointer < 1242760493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would work, but be silly < 1242760498 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait hm < 1242760499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1242760499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you need to load _something_ somehow < 1242760501 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so < 1242760502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still machine word < 1242760505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOAD ptr; NOP value < 1242760507 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about "increment" < 1242760508 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1242760510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it has to be NOP XXXX < 1242760514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and set zero < 1242760514 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the XXXX can just be ignored < 1242760516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and LOAD can look at it < 1242760517 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with those you can load < 1242760518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1242760520 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no < 1242760524 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not interesting, that's boring and slow < 1242760534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes of course < 1242760558 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Nick collision from services. < 1242760561 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otoh, LOAD looking at the next instruction is Evil(TM) < 1242760581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about "load and skip next instruction"? < 1242760583 0 :MizardX-!unknown@unknown.invalid NICK :MizardX < 1242760590 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: As is using NOP for storage. :) < 1242760593 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then have the next instruction as an operand < 1242760600 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's just variable instruction size < 1242760607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah. But with a different name < 1242760608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1242760616 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :variable instruction size is so inelegant :P < 1242760645 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, are there any major architectures that use fixed size? Possibly Itanium I guess... < 1242760655 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keyword being Very Long instruction word < 1242760657 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: RISC architectures. < 1242760666 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so what about the load one there < 1242760676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, loading a constant into a register. < 1242760683 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or referencing a constant memory cell < 1242760687 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1242760688 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :byte < 1242760693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i guess they just have OP XXXX YYYY and ignore Y when it isn't applicable < 1242760695 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is teh ugly < 1242760696 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you need it larger than word size < 1242760710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is variable instruction size basically < 1242760714 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1242760717 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the instructions are all the same length < 1242760721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just parameters are often ignored < 1242760726 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1242760731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still < 1242760732 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :uuuuuugly < 1242760735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more ugly than variable length < 1242760736 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ah you mean HUGE instruction? < 1242760737 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1242760742 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah that is uglt < 1242760745 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OP XXXX YYYY < 1242760746 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugly* < 1242760748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two words plus a byte < 1242760759 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is a horribly uneven size to load < 1242760763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not efficient < 1242760776 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw, are you planning to implement some hardware with this? < 1242760780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: maybe < 1242760784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :prolly not FPGA if I do < 1242760787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's so cheating < 1242760792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Logic circuits! < 1242760794 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how is FPGA cheating < 1242760797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah hm < 1242760802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's too high-level ;) < 1242760809 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ASIC? < 1242760810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1242760820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmmmmmmmmmmnope < 1242760825 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, then what < 1242760828 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TTL < 1242760834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Time To Live < 1242760836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1242760839 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transistor-transistor_logic < 1242760851 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.homebrewcpu.com/ is made entirely with 'em < 1242760859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"It doesn't use an off-the-shelf microprocessor, but instead has a custom CPU made out of 74 Series TTL chips." < 1242760863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what asiekierka was talking about a bit befor < 1242760863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1242760865 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm that have long signal paths < 1242760865 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7400 < 1242760876 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it will be even slower than a FPGA... < 1242760909 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so? < 1242760914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the magic-1 runs at 4mhz < 1242760920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's faster than an apple IIe < 1242760924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and faster than a C64 < 1242760924 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hehe < 1242760928 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and faster than a PDP-11 < 1242760932 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and faster then the IBM PC/XT < 1242760938 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BMOW doesn't use only 7400's, it also uses GAL's < 1242760941 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the same speed as a PIC12F629 iirc < 1242760942 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's still great < 1242760944 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a little slower than the Macintosh 512 < 1242760953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so... yeah, it's not exactly slow < 1242760960 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for a homebrew type thing < 1242760961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, which is a computer in a package with 8 legs. < 1242760964 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it outputs image to VGA, has sound, multitasking, cool stuff < 1242760967 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, agreed < 1242760973 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it will be there (with Magic-1) at the Maker Faire or something < 1242760980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: BMOW? < 1242760990 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://hackaday.com/2009/02/27/bmow-a-home-made-cpu/ ah. < 1242761030 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"I was pleasantly surprised to find that Magic-1 has been quite solid at 4 Mhz." < 1242761034 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hardcore overclocking < 1242761050 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BMOW runs at ~2MHz < 1242761059 0 :MizardX!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Proclamation of invalidity!" < 1242761074 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Connection timed out < 1242761100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Magic-1 continues to run rock solid at 3.75 Mhz with the new (and last - I hope) wiring modifications. There is only one hardware item left that causes me some minor concern: Magic-1 can't stand the heat. It is located in the master bedroom of my house (which, because I live in a very mild coastal climate, has no air conditioning). Sometimes, though, the temperature in the room gets up to 80 F. When this happens, Magic-1 starts failing. A typical < 1242761103 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heat-related failure is when running the Original Adventure program and it aborts at start-up with a vocabulary initialization failure. Once the room cools down in the evening, though, correct behavior resumes. " < 1242761107 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Then, the invention of the noisy computer fan. < 1242761114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FFFFFFFUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU— < 1242761213 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, just for jollies I tried running the old Whetstone benchmark on Magic-1 to see how my floating point performance is. I knew it would be really, really poor - and it is. I had to do a bit of modification to the benchmark source because my score was so low that it didn't register in the normal "Millions of Whetstones per Second" metric. As I predicted, it would be better for me to report Magic-1 in the "Dozens of Floating Point Operations per seco < 1242761215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nd". < 1242761217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anyway, I estimate that a full run of the benchmark will take somewhat more than 20 hours. My shortened run ended up at around 0.000134 MWIPS, or 11.2 DWIPS. < 1242761220 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll probably go ahead and do the full 20-hour run this weekend and officially submit my results :-). < 1242761227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11 dozen floating point operations a SECOND! WOW! < 1242761245 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, http://www.homebrewcpu.com/Pictures/P5150118.JPG is cool < 1242761254 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, it's like WOPR < 1242761261 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in fact, a computer where that is meaningful is cool < 1242761269 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but at 4 MHz < 1242761270 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1242761277 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't think you could read it fast enough < 1242761283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(http://www.pldos.pl/bogus/hardware/komputery/imsai/pics/wargames_wopr.jpg) < 1242761287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(from the movie Wargames) < 1242761289 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(in case you didn't know) < 1242761303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, never heard of that movie < 1242761312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's great. < 1242761361 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why does Magic-1 have a switch labled "DMA Req" < 1242761371 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems so out of place < 1242761376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with that style of technology < 1242761380 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why? < 1242761404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anything with lamps on the front to show registers is by definition way too old to have DMA in my mind. < 1242761433 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it runs minix! < 1242761443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah. Collision < 1242761464 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: modern computers have lights that flicker when the hard disk is used < 1242761467 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :equally as silly < 1242761480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yeah. < 1242761487 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, macs doesn't iirc? < 1242761492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*don't < 1242761495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And no, they don't. < 1242761499 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not even the Mac Pro. < 1242761523 0 :inurinternet!n=nuri@rrcs-74-62-7-76.west.biz.rr.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1242761541 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wb inurinternet < 1242761584 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: any more ammonia news? < 1242761617 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster died of ammonia poisoning < 1242761623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1242761637 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nah < 1242761659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you seem dead to me < 1242761663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and iirc they contained it < 1242761667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how boring < 1242761713 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION suggests a system architecture
< 1242761729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ? < 1242761738 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There are two instructions: NOP and HCF. < 1242761749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah. < 1242761753 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.homebrewcpu.com/Magic1.pdf <-- seems like it has CF slot on the back < 1242761778 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it has a 1-bit addressing scheme. < 1242761778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or side or whatever < 1242761787 0 :MizardX!i=MizardX@unaffiliated/mizardx JOIN :#esoteric < 1242761792 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: No, I think four would be best. hcf, sfi (set fire intensity), sfg (set fire geometry), str (stutter). < 1242761795 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, it has exactly one bit of memory. < 1242761808 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which can be either 0 or 1. < 1242761812 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :0 is a noop. < 1242761813 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 is HCF. < 1242761814 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You fiddle about with them all the time to perform the computation, you see. < 1242761818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Also, it has an infinite tape. < 1242761824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :To modify it, make the fire burn it the right way. < 1242761832 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Therefore, it is turing complete. < 1242761838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Jumps? Just burn the bits on the IP. < 1242761859 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It can be implemented by a light switch wired up to a power source and a spark plug in a barrel of gunpowder. < 1242761870 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, :D < 1242761871 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Mine's better because it is TC. < 1242761877 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's HCF < 1242761884 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: halt-and-catch-fire < 1242761885 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :asiekierka: Halt and Catch Fire. < 1242761890 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1242761911 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Your idea sounds like an interesting Turing tarpit. < 1242761915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yep < 1242761975 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Turing tarpits are the cool thing around here doncha know < 1242761980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how much do you think it'd cost to get an fpga/vhdl environment? yeah it's so uncool but :P < 1242761981 0 :Slereah_!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They're like the cha cha cha < 1242761987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Turing firepit, rather < 1242761993 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just a simple slow thing < 1242762015 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: not a ridiculous amount if you just want low-end stuff and demonstration boards < 1242762028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: will the software run on linux? < 1242762045 0 :Sgeo!n=Sgeo@ool-18bf68ca.dyn.optonline.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1242762071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't know; I've only ever seen Windows software for that < 1242762076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WINE? < 1242762078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but IME, such software normally works well on WINE < 1242762079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well < 1242762081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you use? < 1242762099 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, at home I use VHDL, which is Linux, but it's just a simulator < 1242762100 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Windows software for what? < 1242762103 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 60 (Operation timed out) < 1242762110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: vhdl < 1242762115 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*GHDL < 1242762120 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at University, we have a choice of programs < 1242762126 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :any of which may or may not work in any given situation < 1242762135 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just want non-shitty tools for cheap and an fpga to run stuff on :-) < 1242762137 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the one you'll likely have to use is the low-end one that comes free with the demo board < 1242762146 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as the others will tend to be price on request < 1242762147 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hardware stuff goes over my head < 1242762152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: crappy, I assume? < 1242762159 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not bad, but generally limited < 1242762162 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mostly because I'm cheap < 1242762167 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort-of, shareware-style < 1242762170 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I doubt there's a buzzing pirate scene around FPGA stuff :-P < 1242762173 0 :kar8nga!n=kar8nga@f-30.vc-graz.ac.at JOIN :#esoteric < 1242762199 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: there's http://opencores.org which is not piracy, but open-source hardware is a great concept anyway < 1242762209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it any good? < 1242762242 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I haven't used it much < 1242762250 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but from what I've heard, the stuff there's good and high quality < 1242762260 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you won't find anything amazingly big and complex < 1242762265 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :small processors are about the best you can hope for < 1242762278 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Can an fpga be made into a video card? < 1242762280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wait, that's not fpga software? < 1242762281 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you implied it was < 1242762283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: yes < 1242762287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see caustic graphics < 1242762289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's VHDL and Verilog code snippets < 1242762296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: an FPGA can be made into anything < 1242762296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they are going to sell an fpga that does realtime raytracing < 1242762299 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :~5fps < 1242762305 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w/ accompanying software < 1242762308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very cool < 1242762320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the only difference between an FPGA and a dedicated chip are that the FPGA's slightly slower, and the dedicated chip is cheaper in bulk amounts < 1242762320 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, do sell, it seems < 1242762344 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :........so once I have fpgas, it's like being able to download hardware? < 1242762350 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: Yes. < 1242762351 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1242762352 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1242762355 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although, only digital hardware < 1242762359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :**Sgeo's mind blows** < 1242762364 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes, it did < 1242762366 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you'll need extra components in order to do anything but digital inputs and outputs < 1242762385 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suggest doing CMOS analog circuitry. :p[ < 1242762393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i suggest nanotechnology < 1242762399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :after all, Intel say they'll do it by 2015 < 1242762402 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: but then the whole thing would be type B, and you'd get massive distortion < 1242762405 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for processors < 1242762413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd probably want to tweak CMOS somewhat to make a type AB circuit < 1242762418 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pure-B is only good for digital stuff < 1242762424 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Nano-robots? Forward the singularity! < 1242762428 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"The 11 nanometer (11 nm) node is the technology node following 16 nm node. The exact naming of this technology node comes from the International Technology Roadmap for Semiconductors (ITRS). According to the 2007 edition of this roadmap, by the year 2022, the half-pitch (i.e., half the distance between identical features in an array) for a DRAM should be 11 nm, although Intel's "Architecture and Silicon Cadence Model" places it closer to the year 2015. < 1242762430 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Intel's Pat Gelsinger claims that Intel sees a 'clear way' towards the 11 nm node.[1][2] " < 1242762431 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It'd be crappy, yes. < 1242762432 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :11nm = nanotechnology < 1242762435 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: But it can be done. < 1242762437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: totally < 1242762442 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've been fantasizing about open-source hardware, but only when imagining 3d printing that can do electronics < 1242762454 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: that exists < 1242762457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's called a fabricator < 1242762463 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :do you have millions of dollars? < 1242762464 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you'd have to be fighting the intrinsic digitalness of type-B circuits every step of the way < 1242762469 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: $200. < 1242762478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: $200 silicon fabricator? < 1242762480 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :WAT. < 1242762485 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Reprap can print circuitry now. < 1242762488 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: an FPGA's more like a single chip which is generic enough to be configured however you want < 1242762489 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not silicon. < 1242762497 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Reprap isn't really the same thing... < 1242762500 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm thinking "circuit board" type printing. < 1242762501 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, right, I understand < 1242762510 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still < 1242762514 0 :Sgeo!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*fantasizes* < 1242762525 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sgeo: you can buy fpgas pretty cheap, I think < 1242762526 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That + FPGA = ... Well, print your own motherboard, anyone? < 1242762534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how much is a demo kit? $200 or so right? < 1242762539 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or was it £200 < 1242762544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure offhand < 1242762559 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are only two main manufacturers, more or less like with x86 chips and with graphics cards < 1242762566 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it would be simple enough to just check both < 1242762571 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who are they? < 1242762576 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Xilinx and Altira < 1242762587 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it seems that hardware companies gravitate to a two-manufacturer system < 1242762588 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder why? < 1242762616 0 :jix!n=jix@77-20-205-106-dynip.superkabel.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1242762628 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, I want to create a small-size computational machine, as in, a machine geared for computations < 1242762630 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1242762632 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but nah < 1242762633 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gotta go < 1242762633 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's a hard market to get into, but a lucrative market to stay in? < 1242762639 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : (typical technology company homepage) < 1242762641 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : You need to upgrade your Adobe Flash Player. You also need to have javascript enabled. < 1242762644 0 :asiekierka!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT : < 1242762652 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the latter's typical too < 1242762653 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes, but, it's never 3 or 4 < 1242762654 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm... round one goes to Xilinx, I think < 1242762657 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's always 2 < 1242762661 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I mean in how it looks < 1242762671 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: also, it's Altera < 1242762684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, no < 1242762688 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's a different FPGA company < 1242762689 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now that's confusing < 1242762714 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, that is confusing < 1242762719 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I'm not entirely sure I got the right one now < 1242762727 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes < 1242762727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.hitechglobal.com/boards/v5ddr3_pcie.htm < 1242762729 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that what I want? < 1242762732 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Altera are the FPGA people < 1242762734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it seems terribly bloated! < 1242762743 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, no way you'll be able to afford a Virtex < 1242762746 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are the high-end chips < 1242762747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Altira are about energy things < 1242762749 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and ah < 1242762753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: $10,000? < 1242762756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort of thing? < 1242762759 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about that, yes < 1242762759 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, it says PowerPC < 1242762763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not very custom! < 1242762772 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they have integrated microprocessors nowadays < 1242762773 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://www.xilinx.com/products/devboards/index.htm < 1242762773 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the high-end ones < 1242762776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :starter kit? < 1242762778 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spartan or coolrunner < 1242762787 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spartan is $189 < 1242762791 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coolrunner is $39 < 1242762792 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spartan's the one that the university buys for students to mess with < 1242762795 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :coolrunner is CPLD < 1242762802 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spartan is FPGA < 1242762804 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Xilinx Spartan®-3A Starter Kit delivers instant access to Spartan-3A FPGA device features such as SUSPEND power-saving mode, high-speed I/O options, DDR2 SDRAM memory interface, commodity flash configuration support, and FPGA/IP protection using Device DNA Security. < 1242762806 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't even know what CPLD stands for < 1242762808 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god that's so bloated < 1242762810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ddr2? < 1242762813 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fuck that! < 1242762815 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: they're all bloated < 1242762824 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i want a lean mean custom FPGAing machine :-P < 1242762856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://www.altera.com/products/devkits/kit-dev_platforms.jsp < 1242762859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :altra prices < 1242762860 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems rather unlikely, given the way the industry operates < 1242762861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MAX II is $150 < 1242762866 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :personally, I think the FPGA industry is insane < 1242762866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :argh < 1242762867 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's CPLD < 1242762870 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the whole industry, that is < 1242762873 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: howso? < 1242762885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The low-cost Cyclone® II FPGA Starter Development Kit is ideal for evaluating Altera's high-performance, low-power, 90-nm technology. By using this RoHS-compliant starter development kit, you will see 60 percent (on average) higher performance and 50 percent (on average) lower power than competing 90-nm, low-cost FPGAs. Several reference designs and demonstrations included in the kit make for a quick, "out-of-the-box" evaluation experience. < 1242762886 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they get away with all sorts of ridiculous stuff because they don't have real competition < 1242762886 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION observes once again that Magic-1 is pretty awesome
< 1242762887 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$150 < 1242762899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8-Mbyte SDRAM < 1242762899 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :512-Kbit SRAM < 1242762900 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4-Mbyte flash < 1242762904 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, that's more minimal like I expected < 1242762911 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how many LUTs? < 1242762913 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.altera.com/products/devkits/altera/images/fig1-cyclone2-staterkit.jpg < 1242762914 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that looks nice < 1242762917 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's the measurement of how complex an FPGA is < 1242762924 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: doesn't say, what does it stand for? < 1242762929 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lookup tables < 1242762933 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : although, only digital hardware < 1242762934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1242762937 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's how they're implemented < 1242762941 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://www.altera.com/products/devkits/altera/kit-cyc2-2C20N.html; it doesn't seem to tell you < 1242762952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why not analogue FPGAs < 1242762953 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe the reference manual? < 1242762954 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: look at the chip, not the development kit < 1242762958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: how? < 1242762964 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ever tried to write a truth-table for an analog circuit < 1242762977 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Because FPGAs are a very, very digital-only design. < 1242762994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://www.altera.com/literature/lit-cyc2.jsp lots of cyclone ii shit < 1242762996 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, in fact I have a vague memory of having read about such a FGPA... Something about "evolving" hardware... < 1242762998 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :We're talking logic gates here. < 1242763005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that wasn't analogu < 1242763005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1242763009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that just used analogue IO < 1242763014 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it evolved FPGAs < 1242763027 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1242763028 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was actually an attempt to use a digital combinatorial circuit in order to evaluate an analog sequential function < 1242763029 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it ended up using analogue bits inside iirc. < 1242763031 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which in theory is impossible < 1242763034 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it ended up working anyway < 1242763036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 20K LEs < 1242763041 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah < 1242763043 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :does that help? < 1242763052 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the EP2C20 < 1242763059 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: LEs seems to be it < 1242763063 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :18,752 LEs < 1242763065 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, yes < 1242763071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Altera use a different name for them < 1242763080 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: the max of the cyclone IIS is 68,416 < 1242763083 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so how good's 20K? < 1242763101 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 LUT is about equal to one byte of machine code < 1242763102 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the min of the cyclone IIs is 4K :-P) < 1242763103 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in circuit complexity < 1242763109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, iirc some components were not reachable, but when taken away the FPGA stopped working? < 1242763112 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah, so it controls how advanced your machine can be? < 1242763116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or whatever it was < 1242763116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1242763117 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes < 1242763125 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, speculation about induction iirc < 1242763125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: what would, say, MIPS be? < 1242763126 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :roughly < 1242763133 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a MIPS cpu < 1242763137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nice simple RISC < 1242763138 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quite a lot more than that, I imagine < 1242763140 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, 0 SEK. < 1242763146 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: wut < 1242763154 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ok, what about a really simple embedded ARM < 1242763157 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :200K? < 1242763160 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've managed to use huge numbers of LUTs before just trying to do multiplication < 1242763168 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, My ISP sent one for free. My ADSL modem runs on MIPS it seems < 1242763172 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a 32-bit multiplier costs a lot, if you don't have a separate one on the chip < 1242763176 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so do quite a few other ones that can run dd-wrt < 1242763177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and sich < 1242763180 0 :BeholdMyGlory!n=behold@d83-183-181-73.cust.tele2.se JOIN :#esoteric < 1242763181 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :such* < 1242763186 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I didn't ask price < 1242763187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I asked LUTs < 1242763195 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RAM uses a lot of LUTs too (one per /bit/ of RAM, plus a few more), but nearly all FPGAs have on-board RAM separate from the LUTs < 1242763196 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh misread < 1242763199 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i'd hate to be making a totally-awesome minimalist CPU and then run into a LE limit < 1242763199 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, btw what is a LUT < 1242763204 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: look up table < 1242763207 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1242763209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this FPGA has 20K of them < 1242763223 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: yeah—239,616 bits of RAM < 1242763240 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the way FPGA RAM is measured in bits < 1242763252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because the word length depends on how you connect them up < 1242763257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, at least there is no 1000 vs 1024 thing then < 1242763258 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1242763260 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's 39 kilobytes! < 1242763261 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1242763262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :29 < 1242763279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, how large is your byte < 1242763283 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: is that the dedicated RAM, or the RAM if you use all the LUTs as RAM too? < 1242763284 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6 bits right? < 1242763287 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: lawl < 1242763296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some manufacturers give the second value to make the chips look better than they are < 1242763300 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: don't even know < 1242763302 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but < 1242763305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is quite possible! < 1242763315 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, wait. < 1242763323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:54 ehird: 8-Mbyte SDRAM < 1242763323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:54 ehird: 512-Kbit SRAM < 1242763324 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :19:54 ehird: 4-Mbyte flash < 1242763326 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: < 1242763328 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it has external ram at well, at least < 1242763330 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :my board < 1242763340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much do you think I could fit into 18,752 LEs? < 1242763402 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm trying to find some data on that atm < 1242763407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thanks < 1242763437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, it supports 640x480 VGA < 1242763439 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at 60hz! < 1242763446 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it has a PS/2 connector < 1242763447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one of them < 1242763449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :keyboard or mouse < 1242763449 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they come with lots of useless features, normally < 1242763450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :take a pick < 1242763465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: like a 24-bit audio codec < 1242763474 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, 18 LEDs < 1242763476 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :8 green, 10 red < 1242763483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4 seven-segment displays—that's FOUR calculators! < 1242763490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a "USB-Blaster" port, whatever that is < 1242763492 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :an SD card connector! < 1242763503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :microphone-in, line-in, line-out < 1242763505 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is truly amazing < 1242763525 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :those are one-digit seven-segment displays < 1242763530 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ah < 1242763534 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's less than one calculator! < 1242763556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Audio CODEC The development board provides a Wolfson WM8731high-quality, 24-bit, < 1242763556 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sigma-delta audio encoder/decoder (CODEC) for applications such as < 1242763557 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MP3 players and recorders, PDAs, smart phones, and voice recorders. < 1242763597 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: so is altera verilog or vhdl? < 1242763607 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: almost certainly both < 1242763616 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the general rule is that the military uses vhdl, everyone else uses verilog < 1242763624 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought you used vhdl < 1242763630 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're pretty much the same language nowadays anyway, just with different syntax < 1242763632 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yes, I was tought VHDL < 1242763634 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for some reason < 1242763639 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*taught < 1242763644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Verilog's syntax looks nicer < 1242763645 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect most talented FPGA people end up in the military... < 1242763657 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Verilog is C-like, VHDL is ADA-like < 1242763661 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: figured out what 20K could fit? < 1242763673 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not yet, I'm still looking < 1242763679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"However, using this 9-valued logic (U,X,0,1,Z,W,H,L,-) " < 1242763682 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :9 valued logic. < 1242763683 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1242763684 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck VHDL < 1242763688 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :booleans have 9 possible values in VHDL < 1242763693 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes :p < 1242763742 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Verilog isn't that c like < 1242763745 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ... 9 possible values?!? < 1242763747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (rst) // This causes reset of the cntr < 1242763747 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : count <= 5'b0; < 1242763748 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : else < 1242763750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (cet && cep) // Enables both true < 1242763752 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : begin < 1242763754 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : if (count == length-1) < 1242763756 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : count <= 5'b0; < 1242763757 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HOW DOES THAT MAKE SENSE? < 1242763758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : else < 1242763760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : count <= count + 5'b1; // 5'b1 is 5 bits < 1242763762 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : end // wide and equal < 1242763764 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IEEE_1164 < 1242763766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :impedance, drive and shit < 1242763769 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Because it's hardware. < 1242763780 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fuck hardware. < 1242763795 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: true, false, true via a resistor, false via a resistor, contradiction, uninitialised, between true and false, unconnected, unknown < 1242763796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :** pikhq has disconnected < 1242763796 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'll train a bunch of rodents to do my computations. < 1242763815 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www88.wolframalpha.com/input/?i=bacon+as+mass+of+milky+way&a=*C.bacon-_*ExpandedFood.dflt-&a=*C.milky+way-_*Astronomical.dflt-&a=*EAC.ExpandedFood.PreparedCuredPorkBacon-_**PreparedCuredPorkBacon.*Food%3ACookingMethod_Food%3APanFried--- < 1242763818 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in RL, hardware can end up with a lot more values from 0 to 1 < 1242763819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bacon as mass of milky way < 1242763823 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1 slace < 1242763825 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*slice < 1242763827 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Pan-fried < 1242763828 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*than 0 and 1 < 1242763842 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Assuming "milky way" is an astronomical object | Use as a food instead " < 1242763844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION eats the milky way
< 1242763852 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I use IP via carrier pigeon. < 1242763859 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(yes, I know it's a chocolate bar) < 1242763864 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I feed my pigeons coffee beans. < 1242763871 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : pikhq: true, false, true via a resistor, false via a resistor, contradiction, uninitialised, between true and false, unconnected, unknown <-- why is "via resistor" significant < 1242763877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that's hardware, just wetware < 1242763892 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Well, yes. Wetware, however, makes much more sense. < 1242763898 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Are you on crack? :-) < 1242763901 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because if you connect true via resistor to false, you get false < 1242763908 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but if you connect true to false, you get a contradiction < 1242763910 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No, but my computer rats are. < 1242763917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I see... < 1242763921 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :contradictions are /bad/, they can damage the chip in theory < 1242763924 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION picks up a bit
< 1242763951 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how do you model analogue cicuits < 1242763963 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION makes sure the bit is in operating condition, gives it more crack, sets it back into RAM
< 1242763973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: OK, I found some details: you can do an M68000 microprocessor in about 6000 LUTs < 1242763978 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :depending on what other features of the chip you use < 1242763980 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: With a breadboard. < 1242763984 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1242763986 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's pretty good < 1242763994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be nicer if you could do it more like VHDL < 1242763994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's very good, in fact < 1242763995 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or such < 1242764001 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: using a language other than VHDL < 1242764007 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, such as? < 1242764009 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: i could have over 20 68000s :P < 1242764018 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if there is one yet < 1242764026 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah... < 1242764026 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Cluster! < 1242764032 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: also, buy yourself an anti-static wrist strap, if you're planning to mess with FPGAs < 1242764040 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're very static-sensitive, much more so than computers < 1242764040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Er. < 1242764044 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay. :P < 1242764064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: do you actually touch it much? < 1242764081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't expect so < 1242764112 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: depends on what you're doing with it < 1242764124 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but mostly you wouldn't, I expect < 1242764143 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm paranoid about static, though, I've seen all sorts of good circuits ruined due to it < 1242764193 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about making static-resistant/proof chipset < 1242764195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :chipsets* < 1242764198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1242764202 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :would be interestig < 1242764205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :interesting* < 1242764219 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possible? < 1242764238 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Possible, if you've got a chip fab. < 1242764240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you mean a computer? < 1242764251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, huh? < 1242764256 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: could be, but the technique of using a static-sensitive chip and putting it in an antistatic box tens to be cheaper < 1242764259 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*tends < 1242764272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no I mean FPGAs, ICs and so on < 1242764280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not what i meant < 1242764293 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, but what I meant! < 1242764297 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kay < 1242764305 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it depends on the internal logic method < 1242764313 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :TTL-based chips are a lot less static-sensitive than CMOS, for instance < 1242764314 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1242764321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but slower right? < 1242764327 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not directly < 1242764333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh? < 1242764333 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but they use more power < 1242764339 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more power = more heat = harder to cool < 1242764344 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what method is used for current CPUs btw? < 1242764345 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you have to run TTL-based circuits slower or they overheat < 1242764352 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and CMOS is pretty much standard for anything complicated < 1242764357 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kay < 1242764362 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :simpler things are often lowpower-schottky-TTL < 1242764376 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, "shottky"? < 1242764377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if for some reason you don't want CMOS (say you're the military and want something that won't break in weird conditions) < 1242764394 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's some slightly different way to make a transistor, I think < 1242764400 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1242764405 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Or if you're putting the thing in orbit. < 1242764409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes < 1242764412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: CMOS is used atm, but we're nearing on nanotechnology < 1242764412 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thought it was a typo for "shoddy" < 1242764420 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine they don't use CMOS much on spacecraft < 1242764422 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I don't know < 1242764442 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22nm is the last pure CMOS, iirc < 1242764447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and 11nm is real nanoelectronics; I may be wrong < 1242764453 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The space shuttle still has solid-state circuitry. < 1242764470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, did you mean "Schottky"? < 1242764472 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might even have some tubes. < 1242764474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err yeah < 1242764476 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I typoed < 1242764478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not you < 1242764480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh < 1242764480 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I said "Schottky", then you misqupted me < 1242764482 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*misquoted < 1242764484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Fifteen nanometres is equivalent to 0.005906 thou, or 0.000015 millimetres, and is the width of a very very very very very thin human hair which you can't see unless your eyesight is very very very very very good." —The Inquirer < 1242764486 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah < 1242764488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :indeed < 1242764492 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: haha < 1242764510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there are a lot of nanometres in a deci-inch, surely < 1242764518 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is a joke right? < 1242764527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's very very very very very thin hair. < 1242764544 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: nope, 100% serious < 1242764548 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(deci-inches are /not/ the industry standard for pin spaces, that's the 2.54mm standard, but the name is inevitable given that it is exactly a tenth of an inch) < 1242764554 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Wow. The space shuttle's RAM... < 1242764555 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the very-hair-very-eyesight measurement system is very very very common < 1242764558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you don't get human hair that thin < 1242764561 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, what about it < 1242764563 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*Magnetic core*. < 1242764563 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: prove it < 1242764568 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1242764571 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: that's brilliant < 1242764572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, WOW < 1242764574 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and actually, doesn't surprise me < 1242764583 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :given that they must actually get loads of cosmic rays up there < 1242764583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's ho < 1242764583 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :t < 1242764585 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, too lazy < 1242764598 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I imagine the transistors in the processors are massively big by today's standards, too < 1242764598 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/IBM_AP-101 They've got 5 of these. < 1242764603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: "Analyze every human hair on the planet" "too lazy" Understatement of the century < 1242764603 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably measured in microns < 1242764628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: eh, 1 um was circa 1985 < 1242764641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and we had 0.X ums until 2002-2003 < 1242764645 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :w/ 90nm < 1242764646 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a System 360. < 1242764648 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(before that 0.13 um) < 1242764650 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(basically) < 1242764658 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: big in order to avoid radiation disruption, rather than because they can't make them smaller < 1242764660 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, fucking huge. < 1242764663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I know < 1242764667 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just saying it's not THAT old < 1242764673 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1242764707 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, µm not um < 1242764758 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: lazy :P < 1242764775 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D'aw... < 1242764780 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They upgraded the thing in 1990. < 1242764787 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They use an AP-101s. < 1242764791 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Has semiconductor memory. < 1242764810 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: it's AltGr-m < 1242764815 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a whole 1.2 MIPS. < 1242764904 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you didn't say that. You said "prove it". Which could be referring to some report < 1242764909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ask Alpha about it! < 1242764915 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: such a report would have to review all human hair too < 1242765023 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, nah. Just prove it isn't possible. < 1242765038 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how? < 1242765050 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"On Monday, I start at Google. I don't know the exact details of what I'll be doing there, but I can only assume that the bright folks there have realized that the future of massively powerful data centers belongs to wire-wrapped TTL. I'll be sure to bring my wire-wrap gun." —homebrewcpu.com < 1242765104 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He works on Android. < 1242765112 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Still, :D. < 1242765123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1242765125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :on the java vm < 1242765165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[[Shortly after I declared Magic-1 "hardware complete", I casually mentioned to my wife that I was starting to think about Magic-2. Her response was swift, and final: < 1242765165 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1242765167 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"No, there will be no Magic-2!" < 1242765169 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :o < 1242765169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1242765171 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can't blame her. She was an extraordinary good sport during Magic-1's design and construction - especially during the wire-wrapping phase. For most of a year, she put up with electronic junk littering the kitchen table, wire-wrap insulation fragments on the floor and a husband often lost in concentration while the kids were hollering for attention. < 1242765176 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1242765178 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :She's the love of my life, the woman I plan on growing old with, mother of my children, my partner and best friend. I have to respect her wishes on this. < 1242765181 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1242765183 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wire-wrapping? < 1242765183 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : So, there will be no Magic-2. < 1242765185 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : < 1242765187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Instead, we'll call the follow-on project "Magic-16".]] < 1242765192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: TTL thing < 1242765198 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know what wire-wrapping is < 1242765200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1242765204 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just I'm slightly surprised it was being used < 1242765208 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Magic-1 is a wire-wrapped TTL machine. < 1242765210 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it IS a homebrew cpu... < 1242765213 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1242765215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and avoids soldering < 1242765217 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but I would have soldered < 1242765225 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: have you seen it? < 1242765226 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's easier and more reliable < 1242765227 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's quite big < 1242765232 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wouldn't say it's easier < 1242765234 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soldering is a pain < 1242765236 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and no, I haven't seen it < 1242765239 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He wanted it to be hard-core. < 1242765252 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and especially with the typical scale of TTL chips, soldering is easy < 1242765260 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're some of the easiest things to solder < 1242765266 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://www.homebrewcpu.com/Pictures/bu_3.JPG < 1242765275 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :annoying soldering is if you have something in a SOIC package < 1242765282 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once spent several hours soldering one of those < 1242765290 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.homebrewcpu.com/Pictures/P5140113.JPG ← it has a window, just like HARDKOR PCS! < 1242765293 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with a magnifying glass and a special soldering iron < 1242765294 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's even blue < 1242765303 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: wire-wrapping is more beautiful, though < 1242765309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/d/d1/Computerplatine_Wire-wrap_backplane_detail_Z80_Doppel-Europa-Format_1977.jpg < 1242765329 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ugh no, that's just illegible < 1242765339 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: but pretty < 1242765346 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and could be soldered in about half a second per pin for someone who knew what they were doing < 1242765354 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is faster than the wire-wrap would be < 1242765358 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: and who didn't care about burning themselves :) < 1242765376 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: with the apparent scale of that, burning oneself would be really rather unlikely < 1242765387 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your hands would be nowhere near the soldering itself < 1242765401 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meh. < 1242765402 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Part of the idea was to be retro. < 1242765404 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soldering burns are more likely when putting the soldering iron away afterwards < 1242765407 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I know this from experience) < 1242765409 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And wire-wrapping is very retro. < 1242765410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1242765417 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: You fail. :p < 1242765420 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why wire wrapping < 1242765426 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Granted, I've done worse. < 1242765430 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: no, it's nearer your hand then than at any time during the actual soldering < 1242765437 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've burnt myself about three times like that < 1242765439 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(I once grabbed a soldering iron by the tip by accident) < 1242765450 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ouch < 1242765463 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I got a pretty solid burn from that. < 1242765470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1242765471 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :running your hand under the cold tap for a few minutes normally means you have no lasting effects < 1242765477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I never burned on my soldering iron < 1242765482 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1242765483 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: maybe you should get one of the solder gun things < 1242765484 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1242765489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how does wirewrapping work < 1242765491 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which heats up in about 3 seconds, and cools down just as quickly < 1242765493 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why does it stay attached < 1242765499 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: friction < 1242765503 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I once touched a hot, bright lightbulb with the my hand directly. < 1242765505 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err, the end? < 1242765507 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :In a sort of grasping motion. < 1242765516 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was not actually very damaging. < 1242765517 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But damn it hurt. < 1242765518 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you wrap the wire around a lot, tightly < 1242765532 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, trapping the end under the wraps? < 1242765544 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, you wrap the end of the wire around the pin < 1242765549 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you wrap tightly enough, it stays on < 1242765556 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that makes no sense < 1242765560 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The process of wire-wrapping creates a cold weld. < 1242765568 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, uhu.... < 1242765574 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, how does that work < 1242765608 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: "Wire wrap construction can produce assemblies which are more reliable than printed circuits" < 1242765612 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Bringing two pieces of metal in contact with each other at enough pressure welds them together. < 1242765621 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes, I've seen some /really/ low quality printed circuits in the past < 1242765629 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, interesting < 1242765634 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :No route to host < 1242765645 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :soldering is more reliable than wire-wrapping; but the actual printed wires on PCBs can often be awful < 1242765649 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so the connections are fine, but the wires break < 1242765659 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ah yes, seen that too < 1242765666 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can use stripboard if you want the reliability of wires and of soldering < 1242765667 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Works only with metals that don't oxidize, IIRC. < 1242765678 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that doesn't work on high-frequency circuits < 1242765694 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: most wires in use nowadays are tin-plated, though, even though they're made of copper < 1242765694 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or in a vaccum) < 1242765699 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why they don't look red like copper does < 1242765771 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION observes that wire-wrapping is kinda cool, if absurdly labor-intensive.
< 1242765790 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Unless you've got a handheld wire-wrapping tool or an automatic wire-wrapper. < 1242765801 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(the latter is about as cheap as a chip fab) < 1242765818 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i want one of those loom things < 1242765821 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and emulate x86 on them < 1242765830 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd totally be possible < 1242765834 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: but solder wave baths are cool too < 1242765843 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: but x86 is an awful architecture < 1242765847 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Indeed, they are. < 1242765850 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: thus making the emulation more impressive < 1242765854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :run X on a loom! < 1242765860 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just painful. < 1242765871 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Now, I bet that Magic-1 could run X. < 1242765877 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not well, but it could run. < 1242765882 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(assuming video hardware) < 1242765885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4mhz, Minix... < 1242765885 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather slowly, I'd imagine < 1242765889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It could run X pretty nicely. < 1242765891 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :4mhz isn't too bad... < 1242765892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, are there good quality printed circuit boards? < 1242765896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You could run a few xterms. < 1242765897 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes < 1242765898 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. < 1242765900 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :motherboards, for one < 1242765905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So why not? < 1242765913 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It wouldn't be fancy stuff like we're used to, but it'd at least run X. < 1242765920 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, right. But none of those you actually end up soldering on yourself! < 1242765922 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what's really disappointing, though, is that at University, we couldn't make our own PCBs for safety reasons < 1242765922 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not much more than Xterms and TWM, I'd imagine. < 1242765928 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so we had to pay for the technicians to make them < 1242765934 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ... < 1242765937 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and they came out lower-quality than the ones I'd made alone at secondary school < 1242765940 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's really lame. < 1242765949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, is it hard to make PCBs? < 1242765950 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: very, considering I was approved to make them when at school < 1242765951 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :All you really need to make a PCB is a dark room. < 1242765952 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and not at university < 1242765959 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, you just need the appropriate equipment < 1242765965 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how is it unsafe then < 1242765970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: xterms and twm should be enough for anyone < 1242765973 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it involves chemicals < 1242765983 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: The best way to do it at home is a photographic process. < 1242765985 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oxygen is a chemical!111 < 1242765986 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :some of which are moderately dangerous < 1242765986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err... So what about chemistry classes at uni < 1242765992 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you don't need a dark room < 1242765997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :vs. those at school < 1242765998 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I agree with the photographic process < 1242765999 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: It helps. < 1242766002 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it's done with ultraviolet < 1242766013 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so as long as you block out natural light and are fast, you don't care about visible light around < 1242766023 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's how you make printed circuit boards? < 1242766024 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: The thing is, a dark room has all the equipment you need. < 1242766028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like developing a photograph with ultraviolet? < 1242766029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::-D < 1242766042 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's *awesome* < 1242766043 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: yes < 1242766044 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I didn't say it needs to actually be dark. < 1242766057 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: ah, ok < 1242766058 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's ultra mega awesome < 1242766064 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Enlarger, wash basin, and some chemicals. :) < 1242766072 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what do you actually develop, though? < 1242766076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the result < 1242766076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the input < 1242766080 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: basically, you have PCBs coated with copper, where the copper is itself coated with photoresist < 1242766088 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you print out your design on tracing paper < 1242766100 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then shine ultraviolet through the tracing paper onto the photoresist < 1242766109 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does the design look like? < 1242766117 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: the shape of the copper you need < 1242766119 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a negative. < 1242766125 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :haha that's so awesome. < 1242766126 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ink where the copper is, blank where it isn't < 1242766137 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's arguably a positive, the whole process is a double-negative < 1242766139 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so this is how they make motherboards? < 1242766146 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for motherboards, it's automated < 1242766158 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the boards have multiple layers, so it's a bit more complicated < 1242766159 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Oh, didn't realise that it was positive-positive printing. < 1242766191 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: black on the input = no ultraviolet = fixed photoresist = the acid can't get to the copper < 1242766197 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's sort-of double-negative printing < 1242766201 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wasn't thinking. < 1242766225 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's positive printing. ;) < 1242766258 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway, once you've shined the ultraviolet onto the photoresist, you take the whole thing over to a vat of developer < 1242766261 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and submerge it in there < 1242766267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder what the ideal instruction set for C is < 1242766280 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: PDP-11. < 1242766280 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the photoresist is naturally green, but it turns purple in the developer and washes off in a sort of wispy fashion, it's rather pretty < 1242766284 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: not really < 1242766289 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then you dip the whole thing in a vat of acid < 1242766296 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and that's the bit that people keep screwing up < 1242766298 0 :Asztal_!n=asztal@cpc1-stkn13-2-0-cust1016.11-2.cable.virginmedia.com JOIN :#esoteric < 1242766308 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: I always thought motherboards were just like, squirting and denting silicon and copper and shit with machines. < 1242766308 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you can run the original compiler on a PDP-11. < 1242766313 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Photographic motherboards is so cooler. < 1242766318 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you don't leave it in there long enough, the acid doesn't have enough time to etch away the copper < 1242766320 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and you get open circuits < 1242766327 0 :jix!n=jix@77-20-205-106-dynip.superkabel.de JOIN :#esoteric < 1242766330 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*short circuits < 1242766340 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: That's kinda lame. < 1242766341 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you leave it in there too long, the acid gets in under the photoresist and the wires become unreliable < 1242766357 0 :Asztal_!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Client Quit < 1242766362 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Especially since the etching isn't that much harder than a photographic fixer... < 1242766368 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, it isn't < 1242766369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wow, Minix doesn't do copy-on-write when fork()ing < 1242766370 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how rubbish < 1242766377 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why it's beyond me that people keep screwing it up < 1242766377 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Granted, the etch bath is a bit more caustic than a fixer. < 1242766382 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I am, as you guessed, rather bitter about this < 1242766389 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Don't blame you. < 1242766411 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(also, a 45-degree angle or less on a PCB is known as an "acid trap", because the acid tends to get stuck in it even after you've taken the PCB out of the acid) < 1242766413 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, really. It's a process that's well over a hundred years old by now. < 1242766420 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :My *grandmother* could do it better. < 1242766437 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(really; she has dark room equipment laying around) < 1242766440 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: what method do you use in order to get the spare photoresist off afterwards? < 1242766459 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :when I used to do it, we did it by covering the whole board with ultraviolet and developing a second time < 1242766463 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION notes that tanenbaum is giving a lecture as his uni a week on thursday
< 1242766467 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: For a circuit board? < 1242766472 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that's the best method. < 1242766477 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: yes, it works because there are no components < 1242766481 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and agreed < 1242766488 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although there are at least two methods which work at that point < 1242766490 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Might be a wash bath instead, but *shrug* < 1242766510 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I've seen a catalogue that recommended you used a PCB eraser to clean the lines of photoresist < 1242766517 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Corun: That's pretty nice. I recommend going, he's a rather good speaker. < 1242766518 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a PCB eraser works much the same way to a pencil eraser < 1242766530 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah, I'll go < 1242766541 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tell him about all my next gen OS ideas :-) < 1242766541 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if tanenbaum still considers linux obsolete < 1242766544 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe I shouldn't... < 1242766552 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION saw his address at USENIX ATC '08, after he got the USENIX Lifetime Achievement Award. Good lecture.
< 1242766555 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean he could just steal them ^_^ < 1242766567 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, who? < 1242766576 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1242766577 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Tanenbaum. < 1242766578 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tanenbaum. < 1242766582 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION googles
< 1242766586 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION boggles.
< 1242766590 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Corun: Feel free to tell him. < 1242766590 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You DON'T KNOW WHO TANENBAUM IS? < 1242766594 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, isn't it German for xmas tree... < 1242766594 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Stop using a computer right now. < 1242766595 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1242766604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Less talking, more shutting off. < 1242766608 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Minix inventor, and author of like a million OS books and basically he's professor of all Operating Systems. < 1242766608 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He likes talking about kernel designs. < 1242766620 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: He wrote the book on kernels. < 1242766620 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, did ais523 know... < 1242766629 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm pretty fscking sure ais523 knows who Tanenbaum is... < 1242766635 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, considering he didn't know who jwz was... < 1242766641 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He knew who jwz was. < 1242766646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no he didn't < 1242766647 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :He just didn't know he worked on Netscape. < 1242766647 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: according to lingbot, "Tanenbaum" translated from German to English is "apertium" < 1242766659 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: you knew who jwz was, didn't you? < 1242766661 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but as far as I know, "apertium" isn't an English world < 1242766663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what is "apertium"? < 1242766663 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just not that he worked on netscape < 1242766665 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1242766690 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: my situation with Tanenbaum is similar; I know he's famous in computers/programming, but can't remember what for < 1242766698 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: flaming Linux < 1242766701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the most famous thing < 1242766702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but also, Minix < 1242766709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and a gigantic amount of operating system textbooks < 1242766718 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so don't complain about me then < 1242766721 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but most famous popculture wise, definitely flaming Linux way back then < 1242766727 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: at least he had a vague idea < 1242766740 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the name did sound familiar < 1242766745 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, Minix, that was it < 1242766748 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why did he flame Linux? < 1242766755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: monolithic kernel < 1242766757 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for doing things differently? < 1242766760 0 :Corun!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Cos he considered it a step backwards in operating system design < 1242766763 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep, I remember now < 1242766780 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: http://oreilly.com/catalog/opensources/book/appa.html < 1242766781 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the funny thing is, with modules, Linux managed to work around many of the disadvantages of being monolithic < 1242766789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the full debate < 1242766801 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although it was restarted in 2006, it seems < 1242766803 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, why did he flame linux btw < 1242766806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh wait < 1242766810 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm late asking < 1242766812 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Dude! What is UP with your SCROLLBACK? < 1242766822 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You never seem to use it... < 1242766823 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: Linux is an example of good monolithic design. < 1242766829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I was searching on wikipedia for it < 1242766833 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, didn't find it < 1242766836 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, asked here < 1242766837 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I suspect a very sophisticated microkernel could be better, but *shrug*. < 1242766841 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, apparently, according to lingbot, "Tanenbaum" in German translates to "apertium" in English, Swedish, /and/ French < 1242766844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :saw that ais asked above < 1242766851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, QNX style? < 1242766855 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Microkernels are evil. < 1242766858 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just happy using a well-designed kernel. < 1242766861 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So's monolithic kernels. < 1242766862 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that is broken < 1242766863 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So's kernels. < 1242766873 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Minix style, bitch. ;) < 1242766890 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :now I'm curious as to what "apertium" means, it looks vaguely Latin < 1242766892 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://tunes.org/cliki/microkernel_20debate.html < 1242766896 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, um I suspect a bug: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apertium < 1242766903 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is a translation software it seems < 1242766905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& http://tunes.org/cliki/kernel.html < 1242766908 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, :D < 1242766910 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :& http://tunes.org/cliki/no-kernel.html < 1242766914 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[21:01] lingbot: en de "test"? < 1242766915 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[21:01] ais523: "Test" (en to de, apertium) < 1242766920 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's a bug too < 1242766929 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, it is using that software, but it is buggy? < 1242766972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Translation: German » English < 1242766972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tanenbaum < 1242766972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : Tanenbaum < 1242766975 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :could be < 1242766979 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is Google translate < 1242767045 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: according to that page you linked, NT's a microkernel < 1242767046 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that surprises me < 1242767049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1242767055 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :according to it, NT was originally designed as a microkernel < 1242767061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but grew into a monolithic one < 1242767070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then it says that was disputed by an NT architect < 1242767077 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, ok < 1242767109 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, Tanenbaum seems to hate x86 just as much as everyone else < 1242767162 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But in all honesty, I would < 1242767163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :suggest that people who want a **MODERN** "free" OS look around for a < 1242767163 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :microkernel-based, portable OS, like maybe GNU or something like that. < 1242767169 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love how GNU was a reasonable OS proposition for the future in 1992 < 1242767173 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :with Hurd! < 1242767204 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe it would have been, if more people worked on it < 1242767215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it'd have been terribly bloated < 1242767220 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I wonder if there's anything intrinsically wrong with Hurd, or just if it never caught on < 1242767223 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then... GNU design < 1242767227 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes, it would never have caught on < 1242767262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why not? < 1242767264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :GNU design? < 1242767272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: have you read the HURD design? < 1242767275 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's truly crazy < 1242767284 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: bits of it, but I think my brain shut off < 1242767295 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: GNU programs tend to get bloated over time < 1242767296 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it involves kernels being kernels among other kernels while a centralized kernel manages them in a kernel way < 1242767299 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sort-of like Firefox < 1242767306 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, true < 1242767306 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then you get injected with LSD < 1242767311 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is strange, as other open-source software doesn't < 1242767316 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(part of the bootup phrase, I thikn) < 1242767316 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, not all of it < 1242767317 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*think < 1242767340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, exokernels? < 1242767342 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or what < 1242767347 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't even know < 1242767353 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, or Xen style? < 1242767359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1242767362 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kay < 1242767367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not anything I've seen before < 1242767369 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's crazy < 1242767396 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :heh, it has a server with the express purpose of handling crashes < 1242767400 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the crash server < 1242767435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$ ./esotope-bfc < 1242767435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/usr/bin/env: python -O: No such file or directory < 1242767436 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fail < 1242767443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!/usr/bin/env python -O < 1242767446 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't valid < 1242767447 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's not fail < 1242767452 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it is < 1242767462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it's your system having an arbitrary limitation < 1242767464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, iirc you can only give one parameter on that line < 1242767465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1242767466 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nope < 1242767469 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yep < 1242767472 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only one is guaranteed, I think < 1242767473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what does POSIX say? < 1242767477 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, there you are then < 1242767479 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the only reason more wouldn't work is due to artificial limitation < 1242767484 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: _guaranteed_ < 1242767486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :more isn't invalid < 1242767488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, it is a bug. < 1242767494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... no it's not < 1242767504 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: fail, /usr/bin/env is more than 8 letters long < 1242767510 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ooh, burn < 1242767512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, haha < 1242767515 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure if that's an artificial POSIX limitation < 1242767518 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it ought to be < 1242767523 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, oh < 1242767527 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :POSIX has no limitation on it < 1242767532 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it just states that you're only guaranteed one argument < 1242767537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if you can't handle more, your kernel sucks < 1242767550 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, going to stay on OS X then < 1242767551 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I see < 1242767564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :moving to a PC != the linux kernel is good < 1242767567 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, it seems that the limit's 32 < 1242767583 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, some old shells will cut off #! lines after 32 characters < 1242767590 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :man perlrun warns about that < 1242767597 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in case your command-line options get cut in half < 1242767602 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(Perl parses #! lines itself) < 1242767602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Another way that some historical implementations handle shell scripts is by recognizing the first < 1242767602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :two bytes of the file as the character string "#!" and using the remainder of the first line of the < 1242767602 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :file as the name of the command interpreter to execute. < 1242767607 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :quoting POSIX 2008 < 1242767617 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :about exec() < 1242767618 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: if that's true, then /usr/bin/env is invalid < 1242767623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as it'd mean you can't specify any arguments < 1242767625 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so sir, the fail is on you < 1242767640 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :incidentally, would just #!python work? < 1242767660 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: nope < 1242767664 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, does it do a path search for the executable you ask, or does it just go to the place you ask/ < 1242767667 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, pity < 1242767669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird:~/Junk] % cat>a < 1242767669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :#!python < 1242767670 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :print "hi" < 1242767673 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird:~/Junk] % chmod +x a < 1242767674 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :[ehird:~/Junk] % ./a < 1242767676 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :zsh: ./a: bad interpreter: python: no such file or directory < 1242767695 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1242767707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, the wrapper script is broken on Linux. < 1242767711 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lifthrasiir, needs to be fixed < 1242767726 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: can I point out some hypocrisy here? < 1242767740 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you refuse to support systems that don't support POSIX properly. why should lifthrasiir make up for a deficiency in your kernel? < 1242767761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I support systems that support what POSIX + XSI requires < 1242767770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and this is more than what POSIX + XSI requires < 1242767779 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :he supports systems that don't have artificial limitations on #! arguments < 1242767803 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :whereas with C-INTERCAL, I aim to eventually support anything which has a program vaguely resembling a C compiler < 1242767807 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although I'm not there yet < 1242767817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :From XSH: < 1242767819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1. The shell reads its input from a file (see sh), from the −c option or from the system( ) and < 1242767819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : popen( ) functions defined in the System Interfaces volume of POSIX.1-2008. If the first < 1242767819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : line of a file of shell commands starts with the characters "#!", the results are < 1242767819 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : unspecified. < 1242767823 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :xsh? < 1242767832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, the section on the shell < 1242767834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and tools < 1242767844 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: ok, so depending on #!-lines is unportable < 1242767849 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes! < 1242767849 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the german spelling is "Tannenbaum" < 1242767852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you're digging yourself into a hole here, AnMaster < 1242767858 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no I'm not < 1242767862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is exactly why strict POSIX compliance is bullshit < 1242767864 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: AnMaster: wait, that's about calling a shell with a file starting #! as its argument < 1242767868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you fail < 1242767872 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's different from running a program starting #! < 1242767877 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: are you sure? < 1242767879 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :unless the #! line specifies a shell < 1242767879 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./a executes the shell on a < 1242767892 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: no, because what if it's a binary? < 1242767894 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :./a /runs/ a < 1242767906 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: hmr < 1242767911 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1242767912 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not XSH < 1242767914 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XCU < 1242767917 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1242767921 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XSH is system interfaces < 1242767925 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I fail to see why that's obvious < 1242767944 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, because XSH is system interfaces, the C API. < 1242767948 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :all the headers < 1242767949 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and so on < 1242767957 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SH means system interfaces < 1242767959 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1242767960 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, but I don't imagine that that's common knowledge < 1242767961 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, POSIX comes in 4 volumes... < 1242767961 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XCU means shell < 1242767963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :of course < 1242767968 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XBD XSH XCU XRAT < 1242767972 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so something that depends on it is not "obvious" < 1242767991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, XCU means "Shell and Utilities" < 1242767997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and yeah it is confusing < 1242767999 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C stands for Shell < 1242767999 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's like saying that #1 $ #1 equals #3, obviously < 1242768000 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :obviously < 1242768003 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is why I mixed them up < 1242768007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Chell < 1242768049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XBD Is Base Defintion. Says stuff like "mount point" being an implementation defined concept < 1242768051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and what not < 1242768074 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bbl food < 1242768095 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: We should make a DS9K implementation of POSIX < 1242768101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :just to trample on everyone touting POSIX compliance < 1242768102 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: see Windows < 1242768105 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd do it on my own, but you're eviller < 1242768110 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: that's more a DS9King of the tests < 1242768114 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not the OS < 1242768116 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, yes < 1242768136 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :something that'd pass a stock POSIX test suite run by an unbiased tester, but still be completely broken on more or less anything < 1242768137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is what I meant < 1242768142 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you mean, an implementation that's more interesting than ENOTIMPLEMENTED as a return value for everything? < 1242768145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1242768356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: would it be possible to implement posix in user-mode? < 1242768359 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :completely compliant < 1242768373 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I don't see why not, so long as you can implement devices somehow < 1242768393 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: just map them to the host devices < 1242768397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait, which devices < 1242768397 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :/dev? < 1242768402 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or physical I/O devices < 1242768409 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, I suppose /dev < 1242768412 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'd have your own in-memory FS, ofc < 1242768414 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :from the point of view of the testsuite < 1242768483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :BA-K-47: America's No. 1 bacon-based assault rifle < 1242768484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and now it's hit Slashdot: http://tech.slashdot.org/article.pl?sid=09/05/19/1846258&from=rss < 1242768485 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://latimesblogs.latimes.com/dailydish/2009/05/bak47-the-gun-that-will-revolt-and-defeat-terrorists.html < 1242768493 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have no idea if I'm responsible for all this or not... < 1242768502 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: ask? < 1242768532 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can't be bothered, and don't have a good way to ask < 1242768536 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :comment < 1242768547 0 :Gracenotes!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1242768690 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: a kernel that can run in user-mode would be interesting < 1242768701 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like, it requires a basis of functions that either map to the host OS or the hardware < 1242768706 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the rest of the kernel is built on top of them < 1242768716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you could, say, do a VPS or a jail really cheaply < 1242768721 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: that's basically how gcc-bf's fake operating system works < 1242768734 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right, but it could be both usermode and hardware < 1242768756 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the way I implemented a filesystem < 1242768770 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's just a dictionary of file against file contents, implemented using linear search < 1242768776 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :possibly the world's worst filesystem < 1242768803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: oh, with user-mode posix, you could run a standard filesystem on a real harddisk < 1242768809 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: So, something like UML? < 1242768816 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you'd probably want to do it in a big file, to avoid the whole root thing < 1242768818 0 :RodgerTheGreat!n=Rodger@c-71-232-26-77.hsd1.ma.comcast.net JOIN :#esoteric < 1242768819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for convenience < 1242768823 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :howdy folks < 1242768827 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION waveth at the Rodger
< 1242768829 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: it just emulates the hardware for linux, doesn't it? < 1242768835 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not actually run a kernel properly tuned to usermodeity < 1242768854 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I definitely need to start coming here again < 1242768862 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: It's not very well-tuned, but it does implement everything in terms of Linux system calls. < 1242768866 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : but you mean, an implementation that's more interesting than ENOTIMPLEMENTED as a return value for everything? <-- isn't allowed for most stuff in 2008 < 1242768868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1242768872 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: eh, even so < 1242768879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for example in POSX 2008 mmap() is required < 1242768884 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And it's been ported to Cygwin before. I'd imagine it wouldn't be hard to abstract it further. < 1242768885 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while in 2001 it is optional < 1242768930 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Hmm. A usermode POSIX kernel would be pretty cool to implement, actually. < 1242768934 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat, have you been away? < 1242768942 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm very much enjoying the public reaction to Alpha- "This seems to be pretty useless. It cannot tell me how many cigarettes would fit between the earth and the sun, the nutritional value of Lindsay Lohan, or how big Shaq would have to be to dunk the moon." < 1242768952 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I used to hang out here pretty regularly < 1242768955 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Just not in this channel. < 1242768956 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: mmap doesn't force you to map anywhere in particular in memory, though, does it? < 1242768969 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat, I know < 1242768980 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: It also can't plot the distance to jupiter over time, although it can give you the distance to jupiter in a given year. Don't make excuses for its shittiness. < 1242768991 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yes, I worded it every which way. < 1242768991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat, I just never noticed you left. < 1242768994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so did GregorR < 1242768994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, huh? < 1242768996 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, children can't legally use it, or so the terms of service claim < 1242769009 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I leave that to the OS. by passing a NULL pointer < 1242769011 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: so couldn't you just allocate a bitmap and copy the file into it, and then copy the bitmap back into the file when it closed? < 1242769012 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah, I'm mostly on irc.esper.net these days, so I just haven't bothered to connect to freenode as well < 1242769016 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :to implement mmap? < 1242769034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err. Sure why not. < 1242769045 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would be inefficient; but no reason why you can't implement mmap in userspace < 1242769051 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, if you can handle the updates on writes from other processes correctly < 1242769054 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :attempts to map into a particular location would presumably always be rejected < 1242769063 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: you could commit the file at every context switch < 1242769071 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that would be /really/ inefficient, but correct I think < 1242769073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, sure. If you want to < 1242769087 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it would make mmap rather unusuable, but if this is meant to be a DS9K, why not? < 1242769093 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh hey- I don't think I ever showed this in here- < 1242769101 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://je.zacbrown.org/code/neurogen.ps < 1242769103 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but I fail to see how it would break any app relying on common behaviour. Would just make them slow. < 1242769108 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it seems this has split into two; DS9Ksix and Usersix < 1242769116 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a neural-network backpropagation trainer in postscript! < 1242769118 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, the postscript neural network. < 1242769120 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: *clicks, browser freezes* < 1242769123 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Oh, it loaded. < 1242769128 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Neural networks are pretty simpl < 1242769129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1242769134 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :only takes a second or two to compute < 1242769150 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brb→ < 1242769187 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: about your link a couple of screens back, there was a story on Slashdot a few months ago about how someone had managed to cut through metal with a piece of bacon < 1242769188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and anyway I rely on reading different member of union having a sensible result. Should anyone actually run into real issues with it for cfunge I could add a memcpy() variant as a compile time option. < 1242769194 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :by making it really hot, or something < 1242769196 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :←ais523: awesome→ < 1242769197 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but then I want actual proof for it failing < 1242769211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially if ehird says it < 1242769217 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or you ais523 < 1242769229 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You know what'd be cool to build? A computer using cordwood construction. < 1242769229 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :←DS9C→ < 1242769234 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Cordwoodcircuit.agr.jpg < 1242769246 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: using unions for type punning is legal, IIRC, because that's what they were designed for < 1242769264 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, iirc reading from different member is implementation defined < 1242769268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in C < 1242769283 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, wth is that < 1242769306 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: High-density circuit design using wire-ended components. < 1242769320 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You stick the components between two circuit boards. ;) < 1242769329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, hard to solder I imagine < 1242769336 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1242769349 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually not too bad to solder, but a bitch to assemble on any kind of scale < 1242769349 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Even harder how it was originally done. < 1242769350 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Tin welding. < 1242769368 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :one C weirdness: you can use different sorts of pointers to point to different things, but all pointers to unions must have the same representation no matter what sort of union it is < 1242769371 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the difficulty in aligning components grows exponentially relative to the number of components < 1242769413 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: what exactly are you unioning? < 1242769414 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: At the time, your alternatives for high-density circuit design were non-existent. < 1242769422 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, sure < 1242769427 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This is before surface-mounted components and integrated circuits. < 1242769433 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :either this or freeforming < 1242769435 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, int32_t and float < 1242769444 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: how do you know float's 32 bits long < 1242769448 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's obviously unportable < 1242769451 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And now, you'd only do it for similar reasons to doing a wire-wrapped computer. < 1242769454 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, IEEE says so < 1242769464 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: C doesn't say it's IEEE. < 1242769470 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, true < 1242769473 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is why README says so < 1242769484 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: C doesn't demand IEE representation < 1242769487 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, wire-wrapping has some distinct mechanical advantages that can occasionally make it worthwhile < 1242769489 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah, pikhq beat me < 1242769499 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and I already replied to why < 1242769508 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And floats are often-times done using x87 instructions. < 1242769517 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think building a CPU as a freeformed circuit would be beautiful and impressive < 1242769521 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which are fucking crazy, instead of IEEE. < 1242769541 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: Mmm, yeah. < 1242769555 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, sure. But as long as float are 32 bits I'm happy. Anyway FPDP and FPSP won't work if the floats/doubles are of other sizes < 1242769560 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in any way whatsoever < 1242769585 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :if I had more EE chops I'd totally do it. If someone designed one that seemed to be on a feasible scale I'd help assemble it < 1242769586 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok, using a union for type-punning is permitted by 6.5.7, but there may be other reasons it's illegal < 1242769600 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, C99 Annex F (normative) < 1242769602 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat: Same. < 1242769618 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I could probably build one out of TTL logic chips, but that seems like cheating < 1242769630 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, exact behaviour is implementation defined iirc < 1242769645 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I dunno. Free-form even with TTL logic would be impressive. < 1242769649 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, err what < 1242769650 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6.5.7 Bitwise shift operators < 1242769651 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :.......... < 1242769655 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, that made no sense < 1242769663 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Actually, if you could build one with TTL logic chips, you could probably hand-build one. < 1242769678 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what section did you really mean < 1242769681 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely you could just get a good design for logic gates instead? < 1242769782 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I meant 6.5.7, unfortunately there are two versions of the C standard which are identical apart from section numberin < 1242769784 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*numbering < 1242769791 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I have the ISO one < 1242769804 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ISO/IEC 9899:TC3 < 1242769829 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what section name did you mean < 1242769835 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :never mind < 1242769839 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what? < 1242769843 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :let me finish reading, then I'll tell you < 1242769850 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and I don't know offhand, I'd have to go back and look < 1242769851 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intel_80487 < 1242769860 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... That is one bizarre 'coprocessor'. < 1242769872 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I know... < 1242769910 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your i487 SX could in theory be a downgrade. XD < 1242769947 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, compared to what < 1242769966 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your previous 486 SX. < 1242769978 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There was more than one clock speed on those. :p < 1242769980 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, "coprocessor"? < 1242769982 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1242769986 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, I see < 1242770002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, surely you needed matching speeds? < 1242770020 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not necessarily. < 1242770044 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: 'Coprocessor', since by inserting it, you disable the 80486 on your motherboard. < 1242770058 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's more an instead-processor < 1242770065 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah. < 1242770073 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Thus the scare quotes. < 1242770089 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Intel_Pentium_III_Katmai.jpg < 1242770095 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's one strange CPU mounting < 1242770130 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you should see the heatsink < 1242770163 0 :RodgerTheGreat!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most PIIs were set up like that, and a lot of Sun's Ultra CPUs mounted the same way < 1242770177 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat, err. I have a P3 that is normal ZIF mounting < 1242770181 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not was weird as the Slot 1 -> Socket something adaptors that you could use for Celerons... < 1242770206 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RodgerTheGreat, copper mine < 1242770211 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :996 MHz < 1242770240 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh PII < 1242770241 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right < 1242770253 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pentium_III_on_motherboard.jpg ? < 1242770271 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I'm confused: informative appendix J says that section 6.2.6.1 says that reading from a union member you didn't last store into is unspecified < 1242770272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slot_1 < 1242770272 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok < 1242770283 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I can't see a statement to that effect anywhere in section 6.2.6.1 < 1242770302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6.2.6 Representations of types < 1242770303 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :6.2.6.1 General < 1242770308 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that one < 1242770308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :are we talking about the same one this time? < 1242770310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1242770331 0 :jix!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Lost terminal" < 1242770374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :7 When a value is stored in a member of an object of union type, the bytes of the object < 1242770374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : representation that do not correspond to that member but do correspond to other members < 1242770374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : take unspecified values. < 1242770377 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about that one < 1242770380 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not sure < 1242770398 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, seems to be that < 1242770412 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, not that < 1242770419 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's mentioned elsewhere in appendix J < 1242770424 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, then what does the quoted bit imply < 1242770436 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it means, that say you have a union of a short and a long < 1242770445 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, I quoted 6.2.6.1 (7) < 1242770445 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then if you assign to the short, the bits of the long you didn't assign to end up unspecified < 1242770449 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1242770456 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which makes sense I suppose < 1242770465 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah it does < 1242770466 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although leaving them the same would be more useful < 1242770475 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The slot-mountable Pentiums always reminded me of NES game carts. < 1242770480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, less efficient < 1242770488 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, on some architectures < 1242770500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, say you can only write a 16 bits at once < 1242770516 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then have a char and a long < 1242770528 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and 8 bit char) < 1242770543 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1242770547 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's why it's done that way < 1242770562 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the C standard is designed to allow implementations to be close to the hardware if they want to < 1242770565 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, or maybe reading/writing word size is faster, even if you can still do individual bytes < 1242770571 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and do to weird high-level stuff too, if they want to < 1242770584 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, which end is GCC at < 1242770595 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't know < 1242770597 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :probably both < 1242770608 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, you wrote a backend for it. Surely you know! < 1242770655 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need to understand all of gcc in order to write bits of it < 1242770694 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: A backend just does RTL->machine code translation. < 1242770700 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm ok < 1242770703 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :RTL doesn't tell you much about how it does C. < 1242770722 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: actually, the backend generates the RTL too < 1242770735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why does it < 1242770745 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :gcc's architecture is interesting < 1242770751 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you create templates that it converts standard opcodes into < 1242770756 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like addition, for instance < 1242770758 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's RTL templates < 1242770760 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :into what? < 1242770766 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1242770767 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it then pattern-matches the templates you generated to create asm < 1242770781 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but the RTL itself is modified in between < 1242770783 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what about peep hole optimising < 1242770790 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's done on the RTL, normally < 1242770795 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :although you can do it on the asm if you really want to < 1242770800 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes and it is partly arch specific < 1242770801 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, RTL -> asm < 1242770820 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : but the RTL itself is modified in between <-- by what < 1242770834 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: gcc, of course < 1242770837 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the less backendy bits < 1242770840 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what part of it < 1242770844 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and for what purpose < 1242770846 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :register allocation, mostly < 1242770850 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also various optimisations < 1242770851 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1242770858 0 :kar8nga!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1242770867 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, why was tha backend involved before that < 1242770893 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: because it generates the sort of RTL that works well on the target platform < 1242770906 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1242770918 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea is that say, if you're faster at bitshifts than addition < 1242770925 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you'll generate a bitshift for x+X < 1242770926 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, so that is where you turn mov 0,%eax into xor %eax,%eax ? < 1242770927 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*x+x < 1242770936 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no! the mov 0,%eax is never generated < 1242770942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yes it is... < 1242770945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, at -O0 < 1242770967 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, the conversion works differently at different optimisation levels, it's a mess < 1242770975 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, ok.... < 1242770978 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the x86 code is /especially/ a mess < 1242770983 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, how comes < 1242770989 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most interest in it? < 1242770993 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :presumably they couldn't be bothered to add a new constraint letter for "compile-time constant zero" < 1242770994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So most people working on it? < 1242771001 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: could be < 1242771002 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since sourcefurge's been talked about here occasionally, and not everyone has a project there I guess, here's a bit of information that was emailed today: "Discussion Forums will be replaced by phpBB." < 1242771011 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes, that was mentioned earlier < 1242771014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : presumably they couldn't be bothered to add a new constraint letter for "compile-time constant zero" <-- what has this got to do with the inline asm < 1242771024 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or do they have that elsewhere too < 1242771034 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :constraint letters I mean < 1242771037 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: gcc is very monolithic, OK, different parts affect other different parts < 1242771045 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the constraint letters are used by the pattern-matcher < 1242771060 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, are they the same as the inline asm constraint letters? < 1242771061 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and also by inline asm < 1242771062 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes < 1242771065 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah the same then < 1242771071 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah then I know what you are talking about < 1242771082 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the inline asm isn't their main use < 1242771087 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they're /all over the place/ in the actual backend < 1242771109 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and many of the letters, such as "compile-time constant zero", are not particularly useful in inline asm < 1242771116 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, they are a pain figuring out if you meant m, =m =&m or whatever < 1242771119 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because if you know that something's a constant zero, why did you not just write a zero in your code < 1242771122 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think =&m is valid. Right? < 1242771134 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think so, but I don't deal with the inline asm syntax all that much < 1242771143 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the punctuation marks are different there, even though the letters are the same < 1242771152 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, interesting < 1242771266 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw why is it unspecified if char is signed or unsigned without qualifier < 1242771274 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since apart from that all are signed < 1242771279 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :short, int, long and so on < 1242771284 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: inconsistency between past implementations < 1242771288 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :C89 modeled existing practice < 1242771302 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, but all did signed for int? < 1242771303 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the idea in writing C89 was that as many existing programs as possible should be C89-compatible without changes < 1242771307 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: apparently so < 1242771332 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how much shorter would C99 become if you removed all such old compat... < 1242771345 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I bet a few pages at least < 1242771404 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, btw, it is interesting that gcc shuts up about type punning by pointer if you cast the pointer to void in between < 1242771406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like < 1242771427 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: doing something extra-verbosely is normally taken by compilers as a hint to shut up < 1242771433 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like putting double-parens around an assignment < 1242771444 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(const v4sf*)&my_const_v4si; < 1242771447 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it dislikes < 1242771455 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :((const v4sf*)(const void*)&my_const_v4si); < 1242771456 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it accepts < 1242771463 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it shows that you meant it deliberately < 1242771467 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well I missed one pair of parantheses there < 1242771474 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, yeah I did in that case < 1242771483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, and I deference it just outside < 1242771519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : __builtin_ia32_movntps(((float*)(void*)&cfun_static_space) + i*4, < 1242771519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : *((const v4sf*)(const void*)&fspace_vector_init)); < 1242771521 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah yes < 1242771525 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, like that ^ < 1242771581 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, takes quite a bit to make it shut up < 1242771587 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :bit of work* < 1242771725 0 :oerjan!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Good night" < 1242771846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, pattern matching seems like the best way to implement most compilers to me < 1242771860 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :makes it easy to do in a lot of the cases < 1242771876 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pentium 3 mounting is fun < 1242771880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :because it's rather silly < 1242771885 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, why a slot? < 1242771886 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, pentium2 you mean < 1242771889 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no, 3 < 1242771892 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, because not all p3 had that < 1242771897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I know that < 1242771901 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the katmais did < 1242771910 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, P2 did have the same thing as the katmais iirc < 1242771912 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.phoronix.net/image.php?id=amd_hd4770&image=amd_rv740_slide3_lrg World's most advanced graphics manufacturing process, revolving around terrible kerning. < 1242771915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, and it is easier? < 1242771920 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Surely AMD could do better than that. < 1242771972 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah, even I notice the issues with the I in the second entry < 1242771980 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or anywhere else < 1242771982 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It would be nice if they could spell "semiconductor". < 1242771994 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That too. < 1242772002 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sure AMD are behind it? < 1242772005 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1242772007 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Such terrible kerning. < 1242772010 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's the announcement of the 4770. < 1242772014 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the spelling is worse < 1242772016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, one page of it. < 1242772019 0 :tombom!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Peace and Protection 4.22.2" < 1242772020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yeah < 1242772033 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, only upper case "I" seems affected < 1242772036 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's appealing to the mainstream market it's aimed at, clearly. < 1242772048 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: the whole kerning is pretty terrible but the uppercase I is the most noticable < 1242772055 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that isn't even a kerning fail < 1242772064 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523, what < 1242772064 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's just having the letter I far too wide < 1242772064 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: it's kerning < 1242772067 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1242772068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's kerning < 1242772070 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :silly < 1242772078 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: kerning's to do with combinations of two letters < 1242772100 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hrmw < 1242772101 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well fine < 1242772105 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1242772110 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought this was kerning < 1242772129 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it is < 1242772132 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but maybe pedantically it's not < 1242772156 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kerning = the changing of letter spacing based on the text instead of a constant tracking, IMO < 1242772163 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Kerning.png < 1242772174 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If there was good kerning, it would be able to get rid of that extra space. < 1242772180 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, bad kerning *and* font design. < 1242772187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think the font is verdana < 1242772192 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which doesn't have a fucked up uppercase I < 1242772198 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slot_1 < 1242772205 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even so - using verdana in a product announcement? < 1242772209 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who _designed_ this shit? < 1242772222 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: yes, I'm of the opinion it's rather silly < 1242772226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sockets look nicer :P < 1242772231 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about this http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Adapter_slot1-socket.jpg < 1242772235 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT is silly < 1242772237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1242772240 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about it < 1242772246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is it a socket→slot adapter? < 1242772247 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :THAT is ridiculous < 1242772249 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it doesn't seem to mess up lowercase i... < 1242772249 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :seems so < 1242772250 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes < 1242772262 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I like it, again because http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pentium_II_front.jpg looks like a game cartridge. < 1242772273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: oh, it looks nice, and I agree < 1242772280 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just don't think it's a particularly good way to do a processor < 1242772281 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's like it's calling me to blow on the contacts before I stick it in. < 1242772283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for instance, what about heatsinks and fans? < 1242772295 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you can't really do much when it's all encased in a slot < 1242772298 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Slot_1 made me think of the DS < 1242772298 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what < 1242772312 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: when game catridges lied around < 1242772312 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, blow contacts? HUH < 1242772314 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :they got dusty < 1242772318 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1242772321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you blew at the contacts before putting them in < 1242772321 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :blow in that way < 1242772323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :otherwise you'd get glitches < 1242772333 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not blow away in a destructive way < 1242772336 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: I don't think he meant he performed oral sex on game cartridges < 1242772340 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dammit, you ruined my joke with timing < 1242772342 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :type slower < 1242772348 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I meant as in "blow up" < 1242772356 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :party pooper < 1242772374 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at your service :P < 1242772396 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway why are the contacts hidden on http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Pentium_II_front.jpg < 1242772435 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, they are? < 1242772437 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I can see them < 1242772460 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the contacts doesn't stick out < 1242772464 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :very odd < 1242772481 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Probably to protect against damage/dust/stuff? < 1242772485 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe < 1242772486 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: most game slots are like that < 1242772487 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's exactly what makes it look like a game cartridge. < 1242772491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1242772495 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Indeed < 1242772502 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about the holes on CF cards < 1242772512 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you don't need to blow stuff clean there usually? < 1242772519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :maybe because they are so small < 1242772519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hm < 1242772572 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what is the holgram thingy there for < 1242772579 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For kewlness. < 1242772586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :huh < 1242772593 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: not a hologam < 1242772596 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's a diagram of the chip < 1242772604 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but yes, for kewlness < 1242772604 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1242772613 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slot_1 < 1242772618 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :says it is a hologram < 1242772619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: like this one for the nehalem: http://images.apple.com/macpro/images/overview_features_processor20090303.png < 1242772623 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, it may be a hologram < 1242772628 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but it has the design of the chip on it < 1242772632 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ooh, there's yet another SD standard, after SDHC? < 1242772635 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Didn't know.. < 1242772643 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: exciting! < 1242772646 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, SD? < 1242772651 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Secure digital < 1242772653 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mem cards.. < 1242772654 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1242772654 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Secure Digital Extended Capacity (SDXC) format was unveiled at CES 2009. The maximum capacity defined for SDXC cards is 2 TB (2048 GB). SDHC cards also have a maximum capacity of 2 TB based on the card data structures, but this is artificially limited to 32 GB by the SD 2.0 document. < 1242772658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :2TB memory cards? < 1242772658 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1242772662 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, isn't it closed spec? < 1242772662 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's hot. < 1242772663 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Just what I'm reading :P < 1242772663 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1242772667 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or is that MMC < 1242772676 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION sticks to good old CF.
< 1242772682 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is what my camera can take < 1242772691 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION prefers SD/SD micro
< 1242772693 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, Compact Flash. < 1242772696 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's what my stuff uses < 1242772703 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There might be some sort of official reason along the lines of assuring you that you're getting the a real processor and not just some old dusty pentium some counterfeiter's done a plastic slot case for. Maybe. < 1242772704 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I prefer USB drives :-P < 1242772705 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :most high end cameras seem to prefer CF < 1242772707 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even these days < 1242772707 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly: Compact Flash is really the better format. ;) < 1242772708 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :stuff = Camera, DS, other stuff < 1242772709 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::) < 1242772715 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, indeed it is < 1242772716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Since they come up to 128GB-that-you-can-actually-use < 1242772731 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CF is the physically-larger format, though. < 1242772735 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Maybe, but not the stuff I use :P < 1242772735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what do you mean "can actually use"? < 1242772743 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: " SDHC cards also have a maximum capacity of 2 TB based on the card data structures, but this is artificially limited to 32 GB by the SD 2.0 document." < 1242772750 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: You can get freaking hard drives in CF format, though. < 1242772750 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can only use 32GB of SDcard. < 1242772751 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :;) < 1242772751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, it is still way smaller than the camera battery < 1242772761 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FireFly, or the lense system < 1242772763 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1242772764 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ^ < 1242772779 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's uncomfortably large for something like a mobile phone, though. (Which -- surprise, surprise -- might be why no mobile phones use it.) < 1242772787 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, SD sure. But who cares about SD < 1242772790 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I use CF < 1242772797 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I want a really huge SD micro card :( < 1242772803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: People with a camera that isn't high-end. < 1242772810 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And mobiles. < 1242772815 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah, I have no idea why I would want it in a phone < 1242772827 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :People like FireFly do < 1242772828 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, um my mobile uses some other card < 1242772832 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :XD? < 1242772834 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your mobile, perhaps. < 1242772835 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc < 1242772838 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Keyword yours. < 1242772846 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, Nokia < 1242772847 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :wait < 1242772853 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :SD micro it seems < 1242772857 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1242772861 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I don't have a card for it < 1242772864 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nor do I want one < 1242772865 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Currently, CF is only up to about 100GB. The limit, though is something like petabytes... < 1242772879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the built in 30 MB is enough for the address book < 1242772887 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what else would I need < 1242772906 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MicroSDs are quite extremely small, thought < 1242772908 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MicroSD might be the most common mobile phone thing nowadays; Nokia had a lot of (or at least some) MMC using models at some point, though. < 1242772909 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also CF is faster iirc < 1242772930 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I mean, I'm surprised how you can fit 8 gig in something as thin as a nail < 1242772931 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CF is PATA speed. < 1242772944 0 :upyr[emacs]!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1242772945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, pretty sure it is higher than most though < 1242772963 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, UDMA5? Or higher? < 1242772976 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :UDMA 133. < 1242772985 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :What's amusing is that they still show CF card speeds in "Nx", where N is the 150kbps audio-CD data rate. < 1242772994 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, wow what < 1242772994 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Future revisions will implement SATA. < 1242773010 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, so new cards won't work on my current camera? < 1242773041 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It will be a different, similar format. < 1242773049 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"CFast". < 1242773061 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... Fuck. < 1242773077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, huh < 1242773078 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :CFast will use a standard SATA data connector and a slightly different power connector. < 1242773093 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq, that will be quite a large connector < 1242773109 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for the card < 1242773129 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd expect a much smaller power connector. < 1242773140 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's the interface speed, though. I don't think I've seen advertised speed more than something like "300x", which would mean 45Mbps. < 1242773161 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: That's because it's Flash. < 1242773171 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/Flash/flash/ < 1242773180 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A microdrive can probably hit faster speeds. < 1242773195 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um < 1242773205 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought flash was faster than harddrives? < 1242773207 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They have that smaller "microsata" connector (not sure about standardization status there), wonder why not use that in some SATA-based CF-y thing. < 1242773208 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Or maybe I'm being dumb. < 1242773217 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Er, SSDs are. < 1242773232 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: An SSD is, flash memory is not generally. < 1242773237 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, aren't those basically the same but done as harddrives instead of flash cards? < 1242773248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Not really. < 1242773257 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, different technology? < 1242773264 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No. < 1242773268 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :then what < 1242773272 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm not too certain; ask pikhq. < 1242773304 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :More flash chips, for one thing. < 1242773308 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1242773315 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You can write to/read from multiple in parallel. < 1242773323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yeah < 1242773333 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They use smaller, faster chips. < 1242773415 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Flash memory with large capacity stores more than one bit in each flash cell. < 1242773427 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :This gets a lot of storage, but is slower. < 1242773443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah interesting < 1242773444 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Nope, actually. < 1242773449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the X25-M is about as performant as the X25-E. < 1242773451 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sometimes even moreso. < 1242773462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :iirc, if you do a fuckton of sequential reads/writes it can be faster, but not by much < 1242773633 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm it should be safe to open the case of a SSD right (while it is definitely unsafe to do that in case of a harddrive!) < 1242773634 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :A hard drive is still somewhat faster for sequential operations, and a hard drive is much, much faster for small writes. < 1242773644 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Sure. < 1242773650 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anand did that his SSD reviews. < 1242773658 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'s just flash memory + a controller. < 1242773660 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :who < 1242773669 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Anand Lal Shimpi of anandtech.com < 1242773672 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(hard drive doesn't have to seek for the first, and for the second, the hard drive doesn't have to do 1MB-granularity writes) < 1242773673 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1242773675 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The author of the ever-helpful SSD Anthology < 1242773692 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :22:53 pikhq: A hard drive is still somewhat faster for sequential operations, and a hard drive is much, much faster for small writes. < 1242773694 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Sorry, NO. < 1242773702 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the X25-M is faster than harddrives in every case. < 1242773709 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For sequential reads and writes, for random reads and writes. < 1242773710 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, [citation needed] < 1242773716 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's OPTIMIZED for tiny writes, chrissake! < 1242773724 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://www.anandtech.com/printarticle.aspx?i=3531 < 1242773733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :read the 31 pages or just trust me < 1242773735 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, independent source < 1242773739 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that is independent < 1242773744 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no ties to Intel or anything < 1242773748 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :independent from anand < 1242773749 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1242773751 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and intel < 1242773753 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :try the google < 1242773760 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or buy an ssd and try it yourself < 1242773763 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Is the X25-M Flash memory or battery-backed RAM? < 1242773766 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: flash memory < 1242773772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a reason it's recommended as a disk drive: < 1242773776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's really really fast on <4KB random write < 1242773777 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s < 1242773786 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(and everything else, but especially so) < 1242773833 0 :olsner!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving" < 1242773870 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ... That X25-M is slower for sequential writes. < 1242773880 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in some cases < 1242773886 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And by "small writes", I should've said "for a single small write at a time". < 1242773897 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err, no < 1242773905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for random reads/writes, an SSD is definitely way faster < 1242773919 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Obviously, if you're doing more than one at a time, the SSD is guaranteed to be faster. < 1242773923 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :No seeking. < 1242773926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also... < 1242773929 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/thessdanthology_031809001858/18640.png < 1242773936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The x25-E is faster there < 1242773940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is still an SSD < 1242773964 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so it's MLC that does that < 1242773970 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :still, you don't do sequential writes much on an OS drive < 1242773979 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the sequential read performance is still great: http://images.anandtech.com/graphs/thessdanthology_031809001858/18639.png < 1242773987 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and the random read/write performance blows everything else out of the water < 1242773989 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Okay, the X25-E is just stunning. < 1242774007 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so you get about 30MB/sec slower than a 5400rpm HD with an X25-M when doing the rare operation of big sequential writes < 1242774016 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not really a big deal at all < 1242774032 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, rare seq read? < 1242774037 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's a rare operation on an OS drive, and not actually all that much slower than HDs < 1242774040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: sequential WRIT < 1242774040 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :E < 1242774043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1242774044 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION does sequential writes somewhat often. :p
< 1242774048 0 :BeholdMyGlory!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Remote closed the connection < 1242774061 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: You do a bajillion random writes every time you load a page in your browser. < 1242774074 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And a bajillion random reads when you start a program. < 1242774085 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Uh, no. < 1242774090 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Large sequential writes are stunningly rare in comparison to everything else an OS drive does. < 1242774094 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*OS drive*. < 1242774099 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not media drive. < 1242774102 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I would think the whole cache thing would mitigate the write issues somewhat, especially given that you're likely to have 6 gigabytes of memory free for caching data. < 1242774110 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not like firefox's going to sync() after each write. < 1242774112 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Why the fucking hell would a browser do random writes to your hard drive? < 1242774116 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Dude. Cache. < 1242774124 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Look at firefox sometime. < 1242774130 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: actually, a bug in firefox 3 rc meant it /did/, on Linux < 1242774131 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It does a ridiculous amounts of writes per page loaded. < 1242774133 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Browsers tend to keep cache in RAM and then later commit it to disk. < 1242774133 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but that was fixed < 1242774134 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ais523: he was joking < 1242774139 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: ah, ok < 1242774150 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The random reads, though, is a good point. < 1242774158 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: anyway, if you're seriously arguing that an HD is faster than an SSD for OS drives < 1242774164 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :go buy an SSD, and pop it in your machine, and copy your OS over. < 1242774171 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'm not. < 1242774172 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and then weep at the performance ;-) < 1242774180 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: you seemed to be implying it < 1242774180 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm just saying that an SSD isn't better in all cases. < 1242774193 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's not better when you're doing large sequential writes and totally need max speed on them. < 1242774194 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And I stand corrected with that X25-E. < 1242774200 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is terribly rare, to be honest. < 1242774207 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That's just stunning. < 1242774215 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Yes; but the X25-E is expensive. 64GB max space, for the cost of the 160GB M one. < 1242774226 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And the M beats it slightly on the more conventional operations quite a bit. < 1242774230 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Eh, not worth it yet, but it will be. < 1242774241 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Nah; MLC is the way forward. < 1242774245 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For now, I'll content myself with cheap magnetic disks. < 1242774248 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Except in enterprise server environments. < 1242774251 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Which is the target market of the _E. < 1242774252 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*-E < 1242774273 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Have fun with that; I'll be attempting to snap my fingers fast enough to measure the opening speed of applications. < 1242774300 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't really see how the opening speed of applications is relevant at all, but I guess that might be just my peculiar use case. < 1242774309 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: I'll be holding onto my money. < 1242774321 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, it's not; let's say operating speed of applications. < 1242774323 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But that's so vague. < 1242774341 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"And this stack of bills went towards my education instead..." < 1242774348 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: I'll be spending thousands on every other part of my machine and thus making the reasonable decision for a high-end assembly :-P < 1242774353 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Mwaha. < 1242774357 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :<_< < 1242774361 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :>_> < 1242774363 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Well, sure, if you're spending thousands. < 1242774381 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Get a single SSD and a bunch of cheap disks for bulk storage. < 1242774382 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'snot my fault "hardware is cheap" only applies relatively. < 1242774392 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(or if you're spending tens of thousands, bunch of pricy SSDs) < 1242774398 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: Single SSD on / + single 2TB disk on /home/ehird/media. < 1242774415 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: That's a high-end setup there. < 1242774418 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Spiffy, though. < 1242774434 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: a 2TB 7.5k RPM drive actually only costs around ~$170 < 1242774443 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is just a little more than a 1TB drive < 1242774455 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Little more"? < 1242774461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1TB drives are about $130 < 1242774462 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :1TB drives are under a hundred. < 1242774463 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I don't actually think the operating speed of applications is relevant for me either, since I don't do much waiting; I guess I could be mildly pleased with faster compilation times, though. < 1242774468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Under a hundred? Where? < 1242774483 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Well, if you're totally satisfied with performance, obviously increasing it isn't going to satisfy you. < 1242774502 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Compilation is not very disk-bound, though. < 1242774508 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Over here 1TB is around 100 €, 1.5TB is around 130-140 €, 2TB is around 300 € < 1242774512 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: An SSD is about general snappiness. < 1242774534 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, matters for boot mostly < 1242774537 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: OK, cheapest 1TB drive on newegg is $79.99 < 1242774540 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so I stand corrected < 1242774543 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: no, it matters for everything < 1242774553 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, once system is up I tend to use the same running set of apps all the time < 1242774554 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mostly < 1242774556 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: 81.90 eur ($112 approx.) seems to be the cheapest 1TB drive in verkkokauppa.com. But Finland's not a cheap place for hardware. :/ < 1242774565 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's the difference between 0.5-1 second of waiting and 0.1 second of waiting < 1242774568 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is huge, psychologically < 1242774574 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :verkkokauppa.com is what I was looking at, too < 1242774579 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :So, that $170 2TB drive is more than twice the cost of a 1TB drive. ;) < 1242774587 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It's the de-facto standard. < 1242774591 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: a cheap one. < 1242774597 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And that 81.9 € one is 5400 RPM < 1242774598 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :$130 seems to be more common < 1242774599 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Fair enough. < 1242774617 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And yeah, getting hardware in Finland sucks. < 1242774617 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: The 82.90 is 7200 RPM. < 1242774626 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Right you are. < 1242774656 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Getting hardware in continental Europe sucks in general. < 1242774666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: It seems like buying overseas and paying the shipping could be cheaper for finns. < 1242774673 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They do advertise a lower power usage for the 5400 RPM model. < 1242774691 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird: Most US stores seem to have a shipping model of "California and Wyoming" or whatever < 1242774711 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm annoyed that I can't use the nice Nexus Value 430W psu for my machine; maybe I'll get one of those "10 watts less!" super-green harddrives to ease my soul! < 1242774716 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They don't even bother to state on their pages that they ship to the US only, it's so obvious :-P < 1242774723 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :There's also the "whole import tax and other stuff" thing for outside-EU ordering. < 1242774731 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The UK seems to have okay prices on tech. < 1242774733 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :s/"whole /whole "/ < 1242774741 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :And shipping probably wouldn't be a huge problem. < 1242774745 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For hardware, US > UK > Japan >> Germany > the rest < 1242774755 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The US just rocks because of newegg. < 1242774755 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Not sure if China should be there somewhere. < 1242774763 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :God, I wish they shipped to the UK. < 1242774765 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Atom box and assorted hardware came from UK, since it's EU-internal. < 1242774772 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: Japan > UK; we just have a few okay sites. < 1242774776 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Japan has *everything*. < 1242774794 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, whatever. There's still that >> there. < 1242774796 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Scythe's website is so unprofessional. "6Heat Pieps" < 1242774825 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The problem isn't shipping costs; I'd gladly pay shipping costs if there were any store that actually shipped what I wanted to Europe < 1242774836 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: China's probably cheaper, because of insanely crappy knock-offs. < 1242774850 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Price wasn't the only thing I was considering < 1242774863 0 :Deewiant!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :If the only stuff available is crappy knock-offs then that's not too good either :-P < 1242775223 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric : it's the difference between 0.5-1 second of waiting and 0.1 second of waiting < 1242775225 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :for what < 1242775246 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :For operations to complete. < 1242775248 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, most of the stuff is in page cache early on for me < 1242775288 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what specific operations. Most stuff I do is either CPU bound, memory bound, or just very harddrive trashing (would wear out a flash drive soon) < 1242775332 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i challenge you to wear out an SSD quickly < 1242775340 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, use it as swap :P < 1242775345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said quickly. < 1242775346 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I won < 1242775363 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, sure. Use it as swap on a a system with 128 MB RAM < 1242775365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Run KDE 4 < 1242775371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I said quickly. < 1242775379 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, it will be quickly < 1242775396 0 :FireFly!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Later" < 1242775403 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, because SSDs are the least reliable things ever and break with 3 seconds of use. < 1242775433 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :um. 3 seconds... is that how you define quickly? < 1242775443 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I define quickly to "within two years" < 1242775449 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Please look up "hyperbole". < 1242775452 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :while true;dd if=/dev/urandom of=/dev/hda;done < 1242775454 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::p < 1242775457 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pikhq: hda? < 1242775461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You think they use *IDE*? < 1242775461 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sda < 1242775480 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Linux no longer uses hda < 1242775483 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :even for PATA < 1242775489 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it uses /dev/sd* for all < 1242775491 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1242775492 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Ah, right. Thinko. < 1242775500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: er, for IDE... < 1242775501 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Well, that's up to you; certainly the old PATA stuff is still in the kernel. < 1242775504 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes too < 1242775506 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I should know that, I've got /dev/sd* for IDE and SATA here. < 1242775509 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Heh. < 1242775514 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, well true < 1242775515 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :(though to be fair, < 1242775519 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, but why use it? < 1242775523 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I just use /dev/mapper) < 1242775546 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: When I last bothered to look, quite a lot of the PATA drivers on the libata combined-SATA-and-PATA side were marked as EXPERIMENTAL. < 1242775558 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, hm maybe. < 1242775564 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That was quite a while ago, though. < 1242775575 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: There's the general-purpose PATA driver. :p < 1242775578 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, last I read most worked fine even thought they were marked like that < 1242775632 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Atom box has the CF card adapter in the PATA bus (speed's not an issue) and it's /dev/sda there, because CONFIG_ATA_PIIX wasn't marked experimental any longer. < 1242775664 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Quite a lot of the experimental markings have gone away. But the heading still reads "Serial ATA (prod) and Parallel ATA (experimental) drivers". < 1242775724 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :On this desktop I just twiddled the bios bit to turn the SATA controller to AHCI mode, and forgot about PATA support; I don't have any hardware in the bus anyway. Truly a box of the future, even if it's some years old. < 1242775732 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think it's going to be marked that way until they can remove the old PATA stuff. < 1242775774 0 :pikhq!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :
ACTION goes out to mow
< 1242775782 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, what about DVD < 1242775790 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: SATA for that too. < 1242775797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mow? < 1242775812 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, heh why. surely the DVD is slower than SATA < 1242775817 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :why would it benefit from it < 1242775820 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :'Cuz pata sucks? < 1242775830 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The cable is smaller, blocks airflow even less than rounded IDE cables. :p < 1242775836 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate pasta. < 1242775841 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh you said pata < 1242775844 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :not pasta < 1242775846 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :EVEN SO < 1242775848 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i hate pasta. < 1242775852 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what < 1242775853 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :how < 1242775854 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can < 1242775854 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, ah true < 1242775856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you < 1242775858 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hate < 1242775860 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pasta < 1242775862 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you < 1242775863 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I did mention the drive ("TSSTcorpCD/DVDW SH-S183A") but admittedly the from the name it's not obvious which interface it has. < 1242775864 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :demon < 1242775866 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::| < 1242775868 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :pasta rocks < 1242775869 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i just dont like it < 1242775869 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1242775870 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in general < 1242775874 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean, some pasta is ok < 1242775876 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dont get me wrong < 1242775881 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, Pasta with Swedish meatballs < 1242775891 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but my grandfather makes pasta and its so bad when he does it, so its completely ruined pasta for me. < 1242775893 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, very nice < 1242775896 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'd think psygnisfive's tastes would be more pasta with Swedish balls... < 1242775909 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm swedish food < 1242775915 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, especially when my grandmother makes the meatballs < 1242775922 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: That's not what I meant. < 1242775923 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster: ikea sells swedish food and i love it. < 1242775926 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It was a pun on your gayness, you see. < 1242775931 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i know it was < 1242775933 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Good. < 1242775934 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fi:pata equals something like en:stew (as in the food class). < 1242775936 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I'm glad we're all aware. < 1242775936 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Your gayness" < 1242775940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes. < 1242775942 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, IKEA food is horrible < 1242775945 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is the title for drag queens < 1242775945 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::D < 1242775945 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at least in Sweden < 1242775949 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Your Gayness! < 1242775958 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: You have a gaycore in your body, which transmits gayity to the world. < 1242775958 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster: im sure it is, but i dont mean the food they prepare < 1242775961 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i mean the packaged stuff < 1242775967 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It also provides alternate power in case your heart stops beating. < 1242775978 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, they don't sell that here < 1242775993 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :like that yummy chocolate-coated hard caramel candy < 1242775993 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Of course not; it'd be like selling ice to an eskimo. < 1242775996 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i forget what its called < 1242775998 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: duh; you guys can get it in a food store < 1242775999 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie, yeah < 1242776006 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's curios for the foreigners < 1242776014 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its in the orange and blue packaging < 1242776017 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, you can get stuff from all over the world in the food shop < 1242776018 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :surely you know this stuff anmaster < 1242776018 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :daimo! < 1242776019 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IKEA does sell some packaged food supplies here in Finland, though they aren't exactly... exotic. < 1242776019 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :thats it < 1242776021 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :daimo. < 1242776028 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: well sure, but not with swedish pacakging and the like < 1242776031 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :*packaging < 1242776031 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's just "Daim" here. Do they add an o in your place? :p < 1242776036 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, so can you < 1242776038 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh maybe its just daim < 1242776039 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what about rice < 1242776040 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i dont know < 1242776042 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anyway < 1242776043 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it's from China after all < 1242776044 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :OMG DAIM < 1242776049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: does it have chinese packaging? < 1242776049 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no? < 1242776049 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and other countries close to it < 1242776062 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what does the packaging look like then at IKEA < 1242776065 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, you swedes have some sort of soft flatbread < 1242776068 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Swedish. < 1242776071 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It looks very Swedish. < 1242776073 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its very white and looks like a cushion < 1242776073 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, uh... < 1242776073 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Infallopedia says Daim is called "Dime" in the UK/Ireland. < 1242776076 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Like Swedish food direct from sweden. < 1242776077 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tunnbröd? < 1242776079 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fizzie: Oh, Dime? < 1242776080 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yes! < 1242776080 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is that what you mean < 1242776081 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :That stuff is ick. < 1242776082 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tunnbrod < 1242776086 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i love it mm < 1242776087 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, NO NO < 1242776092 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, bröd < 1242776096 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :im lazy < 1242776098 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive, different letter remember < 1242776100 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :tunnbroed < 1242776104 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Seriously. < 1242776106 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Dime is awful! < 1242776111 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Apparently it's Dajm in swedeland. < 1242776111 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, "dime"? < 1242776115 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Dajm. < 1242776116 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :daim is delicious, shut your mouth < 1242776119 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, oh that < 1242776131 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah it is awesome < 1242776137 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO < 1242776140 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lets see what else man < 1242776143 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :where is Dajm from? < 1242776145 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOU ALL HAVE TERRIBLE TASTES IN CHOCOLATE < 1242776148 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Sweden. < 1242776148 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Sweden, says WP. < 1242776151 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh < 1242776152 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dime_Bar < 1242776153 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird its not the chocolate thats awesome < 1242776154 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I thought it was from US < 1242776161 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"originated in Sweden in 1953" < 1242776173 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh, anmaster < 1242776180 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :your pear soda stuff? <3 < 1242776188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, my grandmother makes a very tasty cake with bits of dime in it < 1242776189 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster is actually behind all things swedish < 1242776190 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :true story < 1242776208 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and just all sorts of swedish food < 1242776209 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so yummy < 1242776227 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://sv.wikipedia.org/wiki/Daim <-- "Dajm"...? < 1242776237 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mmm daim < 1242776251 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"Daim är en sötsak tillverkad av Kraft Foods." <-- "Daim is a sweet produced by Kraft Foods." < 1242776252 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :anmaster, check en.~ < 1242776259 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :googling shows Kraft Foods is US based < 1242776262 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah < 1242776262 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah en. says it's Dajm < 1242776263 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :riggt < 1242776265 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :right* < 1242776267 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: it originates from sweden < 1242776271 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but I guess a US company makes it now < 1242776273 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :kraft foods is english yes < 1242776273 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I have seen both spellings in Sweden < 1242776276 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but you can buy it in UK Ikea anyway < 1242776277 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :er < 1242776279 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eamerican < 1242776282 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it is funny < 1242776283 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :eAmerican. < 1242776284 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :english speaking surely! < 1242776286 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :They are cyberspace americans. < 1242776289 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Kraft is a Swedish word < 1242776300 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :meaning Power/Energy < 1242776304 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1242776305 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1242776309 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Force I think < 1242776309 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :POWER FOODS < 1242776310 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather < 1242776313 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :POWER THIRST < 1242776317 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MADE WITH LIGHTNING < 1242776319 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :REAL LIGHTNING < 1242776324 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1242776325 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Force < 1242776327 0 :fizzie!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :As far as I can make out, Kraft Foods ate the whole Marabou thing, which was the Dajm-maker. < 1242776329 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is the right translation < 1242776334 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can i just say, that NEVER gets old < 1242776345 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: Powerthirst: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRuNxHqwazs That Munctional-Erlang thing parodies it. < 1242776351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in the think you measure in Newton < 1242776354 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :munctional? < 1242776364 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yH_j8-VVLo < 1242776364 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :is this a programming language that Mr Monk uses? < 1242776365 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :what? < 1242776366 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :monktional. < 1242776367 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Functional programming for men. < 1242776371 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: That MUNCTIONAL Erlang video. < 1242776377 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HAH < 1242776379 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MUNCTIONAL < 1242776379 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's a parody of the Powerthirst thing that psygnisfive was quoting. < 1242776381 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRuNxHqwazs < 1242776385 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :brilliant < 1242776387 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I'm not familiar with it < 1242776393 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :got a link to it ehird ~ < 1242776399 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRuNxHqwazs < 1242776404 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But you've seen the munctional one. < 1242776406 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ENERGY FOR ME < 1242776406 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what? Where? < 1242776407 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :You said it was old when I linked it. < 1242776408 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :MENERGYYYYY < 1242776410 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, hm < 1242776412 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :men* < 1242776413 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1242776414 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, which one... < 1242776415 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yH_j8-VVLo anyway < 1242776428 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qRuNxHqwazs or http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1yH_j8-VVLo < 1242776448 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :YOULL HAVE SO MANY BABYES < 1242776451 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :FOUR HUNDRED BABIES < 1242776457 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND THEYLL RUN AS FAST AS KENYANS < 1242776460 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :IN A RACE AGAINST KENYANS < 1242776461 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: First is powerthirst, second is munctional. < 1242776467 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND THEYLL GET IN A TIE WITH KENYANS < 1242776468 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :First is the original, second is the erlang-based parody. < 1242776472 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AND GET DEPORTED BACK TO KENYAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA < 1242776478 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: Yes. I've seen it too. < 1242776489 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :sorry, im just enjoying it ok. < 1242776490 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :god. < 1242776496 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :have you seen the nutrigrain one? < 1242776504 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :similar play play on the babies thing < 1242776518 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I love the p-maps tour maps part. < 1242776598 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, which is the original and which is the joke < 1242776603 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Powerthirst is original. < 1242776605 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :But it's a joke too. < 1242776609 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :The Munctional is the derivation. < 1242776612 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, on what < 1242776613 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :How many times have I said that? < 1242776619 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: It's just. A joke. < 1242776622 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ah < 1242776626 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :It's parodying energy drink adverts to a degree. < 1242776635 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :the MUNCTIONAL guy doesnt have the right amount of energy in his voice < 1242776640 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :HE SHOULD DRINK SOME POWERTHIRST < 1242776656 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :also, too much PARALLEL < 1242776666 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :erlang is all about PARALLELISM. < 1242776679 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :PARALLEL search on your PETABASE sorted IN PARALLEL. < 1242776696 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :lol < 1242776698 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is ridiculous < 1242776721 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :this is poorly thought out < 1242776733 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so's your faec. < 1242776735 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :face < 1242776741 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :oh no mah faec < 1242776742 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :D: < 1242776747 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i liked it tho < 1242776770 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, actually sorting in parallel with mapreduce is fun < 1242776778 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I have done it in erlang of course < 1242776784 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mapreduce isnt just map + reduce innit < 1242776784 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :"sorting in parallel" by itself is impossible < 1242776789 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :well, quite impossibl < 1242776790 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :e < 1242776791 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its map + sort-into-buckets + reduce < 1242776792 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :across multiple nodes < 1242776793 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, no < 1242776797 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, mergesort < 1242776803 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's not sorting every element in parallel < 1242776806 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :can be made parallel < 1242776819 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: no, it's just map/reduce < 1242776834 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, of course not fully, but reduces workload < 1242776836 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :nuh ehird < 1242776841 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :its also got a sort component < 1242776843 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since combining two sorted lists is easy < 1242776856 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :psygnisfive: maybe google map reduce < 1242776862 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :yeah google mapreduce. < 1242776866 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :dunno of any other < 1242776875 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :actually. I was talking of google style map reduce < 1242776879 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :in this case < 1242776884 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hadoop specifically, i think, has it. < 1242776888 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :rather than the two functions map and fold < 1242776905 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :duh < 1242776932 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, ? < 1242776935 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :mapreduce is kinda cool tho < 1242776940 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :23:48 AnMaster: rather than the two functions map and fold < 1242776943 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i knew that < 1242776948 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but there are non-google implementations of MapReduce < 1242776952 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yes that is the alternative meaning I can think of < 1242776959 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i watched a SICP class from berkeley and the prof demoed hadoop < 1242776963 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :which is what I meant by "maybe google map reduce" < 1242776964 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or taught about it, anyway < 1242776969 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :it was quite interesting < 1242776974 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, well yes. I'm using an implementation in erlang then < 1242776976 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :especially with the scheme interface < 1242776991 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but for sorting you of course need a sorting step < 1242776997 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :I think that is what we were talking about < 1242777000 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :... < 1242777015 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :map/reduce isn't really applicable to sorting < 1242777020 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :other than that there wouldn't be any sort involved < 1242777025 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :since it's hard to do a sort efficiently with reduce < 1242777029 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and map is rather useless for it < 1242777127 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about merge sort < 1242777141 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: that's not a pure reduce < 1242777147 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, true. < 1242777179 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :hmm with 85% tdp utilization for the cpu, 90% system load and no capacitor aging, http://extreme.outervision.com/PSUEngine says my system will use 328 watts < 1242777187 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :but tweaking a bit puts it over 430W < 1242777188 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway I would suggest quickmergesort, merge sort to split load across the number of nodes/cpus. Then each node/cpu doing it's own sorting with heap sort < 1242777190 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ok im off for a while guys < 1242777190 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :err < 1242777191 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :see ya < 1242777191 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :i wonder < 1242777192 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :or quicksort < 1242777195 0 :psygnisfive!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :"Leaving..." < 1242777196 0 :ais523!unknown@unknown.invalid QUIT :Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer) < 1242777197 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Deewiant: know anything like that? < 1242777337 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, anyway, I much prefer sorting networks < 1242777351 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :a pitty it needs specialised hardware < 1242777419 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :fpga? < 1242777441 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, that is slow < 1242777442 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric ::P < 1242777462 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: fpgas can raytrace at 5fps < 1242777465 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :that's not slow. < 1242777478 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, compared to ASIC it is < 1242777489 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :AnMaster: do you have any idea how hard raytracing is < 1242777490 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :? < 1242777490 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, where are GPUs that can do way better < 1242777493 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :5fps is basically a miracle < 1242777494 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there* < 1242777494 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :LOL < 1242777495 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :no < 1242777500 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, the last ones yes. < 1242777500 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :you cannot do 5fps raytracing with gpus < 1242777519 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :there's a reason there's a whole company based around their realtime-raytracing FPGAs < 1242777526 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :and it's that it's way ahead of anything else < 1242777529 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, I have seen software ray tracing on a i686. Demo guy made it < 1242777547 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :at 6 FPS iirc < 1242777548 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :Yes, there are demos with it. But the scenes they render are simple, and the quality is not high. < 1242777557 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, yeah < 1242777560 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :these do 5-10FPS for high-quality images < 1242777564 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :as in, same quality as end result < 1242777577 0 :ehird!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :so, yes. FPGAs are fast. < 1242777586 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :ehird, what about Larrabee < 1242777589 0 :AnMaster!unknown@unknown.invalid PRIVMSG #esoteric :spelling