00:01:56 Oh fuck 00:02:05 How to test for atomomicity in Mathematica? 00:02:16 I searched for "type" and "atom", but no dice 00:02:52 Slereah_: magic 00:03:37 Oh, it's AtomQ apparently. 00:03:44 Though it encompasses more than just lists 00:03:57 Close enough 00:04:54 hm 00:05:22 ehird, a bit above the original? 00:05:30 AnMaster: wut 00:05:33 yes 00:05:38 can't find it 00:05:45 * AnMaster searches 00:06:16 http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/report.txt 00:06:16 http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/report.txt <-- empty file? 00:06:16 pikhq: Slereah_: A step-by-step demonstration that the anti-kludge Plain English is basically a rearrangement of a small subset of C: http://pastie.org/486940.txt?key=y7p297kilxy4kj0kelcig 00:06:16 http://www.plainlanguage.gov/examples/humor/headlines.cfm 00:06:16 http://www.plainlanguage.gov/examples/humor/index.cfm 00:06:21 that is all for http in lastlog 00:06:28 ehird, it is out of my scrollback if it was listed there 00:06:49 AnMaster: Try clog. 00:07:05 thank you Mr. Helpful. 00:07:14 Not my fault your backlog is tiny. 00:12:40 -!- Dewi has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 00:12:42 -!- Dewio has joined. 00:13:37 How do I define a function with an undefined number of variable? 00:15:19 Oh, __ apparently 00:15:46 Or... not really 00:15:48 Dayum 00:17:35 "Functions with Variable Numbers of Arguments" 00:17:36 There we go 00:24:08 So it is __ indeed but how the fuck do I choose between the variables. 00:25:21 __ is a list, then 00:25:22 I think 00:26:02 It does not seem to be 00:26:17 In[142]:= p[___] := ___ 00:26:17 In[143]:= p[0, 1, 1] 00:26:17 Out[143]= ___ 00:26:31 Help me Wolfram Alpha! 00:26:34 sec 00:26:36 lemme try 00:27:06 Slereah_: um are you using two or three underscores there? 00:27:17 For any number of variables 00:27:25 _ is one, __ is 1+, ___ is 0+ 00:27:34 Slereah_: 00:27:34 In[7]:= fucking[args__] := args 00:27:36 In[8]:= fucking[1, 2, 3] 00:27:38 Out[8]= Sequence[1, 2, 3] 00:27:39 you have to name it 00:28:00 Slereah_: so fucking[args___] := args in your case 00:28:12 'kay 00:28:59 I'll just do List[arg], it will prolly be easier to handle 00:29:10 er 00:29:15 Slereah_: this way gives you a sequence 00:29:19 ~= list 00:29:57 -!- Corun_ has joined. 00:30:35 But I can't select a particular member of it 00:30:36 Or can I? 00:30:45 p[y_, x___] := List[x][[y]] works nicely 00:31:13 -!- Corun has quit (Nick collision from services.). 00:31:15 -!- Corun_ has changed nick to Corun. 00:31:23 Slereah_: Dude. 00:31:25 it works just like a list. 00:31:35 so just do butt[args___] := args is like a list yay 00:31:45 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 00:32:11 In[156]:= p[y_, x__] := x[[y]] 00:32:11 In[157]:= p[1, 1, 2, 3, 4, 5] 00:32:11 During evaluation of In[157]:= Part::partd: Part specification \ 00:32:11 1[[2,3,4,5,1]] is longer than depth of object. >> 00:32:11 Out[157]= 1[[2, 3, 4, 5, 1]] 00:32:19 So list it is 00:32:30 Slereah_: Just look up sequence in the help k 00:32:35 I did 00:32:40 It's not the same as a list 00:32:41 k :P 00:32:49 But you can just put it in List 00:32:53 And bam, you've got a list 00:33:21 Right. 00:33:34 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 00:36:45 Slereah_: You know the best thing about mathematica? 00:36:47 pi 00:37:04 That is not very best 00:37:38 Slereah_: What about 00:37:44 pi2 00:37:54 I don't get it, what do those do? 00:38:04 Sgeo: ESCpiESC turns into the pi symbol 00:38:06 esc gives you special chars 00:38:08 enters a subscript 00:38:08 Ah 00:38:12 cool 00:38:18 So you get pi^2, but as the actual pi symbol, and a superscript 2 00:38:22 And it actually works 00:38:33 You said ctrl-6 was a subscript 00:38:39 Er. 00:38:41 Superscript. 00:38:56 It also work nestedly. 00:39:07 2222 → 00:39:07 In[6]:= 2^2^2^2 00:39:08 Out[6]= 65536 00:40:22 http://pastie.org/486988.txt 00:40:26 The wonders of adding two more characters 00:40:48 Slereah_: Say, I'm math-brainfarting at the moment: Is there like a modulo but for exponentiation? 00:40:52 modulo = dus dis divide 00:40:58 ??? = dus dis exponentiate-y 00:40:59 err 00:41:00 that is 00:41:14 "foo[N,M] is this M**X, and what is X" 00:41:38 discrete logarithm? 00:42:28 "In particular, an ordinary logarithm loga(b) is a solution of the equation ax = b " 00:42:30 This I did not know! 00:43:00 It works, hooray. 00:43:02 *hoorah 00:43:02 you might want to get the superscripts correctly displayed 00:43:18 oerjan: i just copied from wikipedia 00:43:24 where it looked right. 00:43:36 ehird: wait, you didn't know about logarithms? 00:43:46 I knew about logarithms 00:44:01 I just didn't realise that's what they did, beacuse I've always used them in such familiar bases like e, I guess. 00:44:05 Colour me retarded :-) 00:44:09 aha 00:44:16 *because 00:47:23 What is quite boner about Mathematica is that sometimes, defined functions persist even after deleting them 00:47:29 although if you are not talking modulo arithmetic, solving N = M^X for X is a bit simpler (but rarely has a solution unless it's designed that way of course) 00:47:31 I don't know what to do to delete them nicely 00:47:43 Slereah_: how are you "deleting" them? 00:48:00 oerjan: I just wanted the analogue of modulo to exponentiation 00:48:11 ehird : =. 00:48:13 (what modulo is to multiplication) 00:48:18 Slereah_: wait what? show an example 00:49:08 ehird: hm that might be N/(M**X) where X is maximal such that it divides... 00:49:13 It's "unset" in mathematica 00:49:32 modulo is the same for N-M*X 00:49:37 Slereah_: ah 00:49:39 how doesn't it work? 00:50:17 Scratch that 00:50:38 ehird: except because smaller things subtract, but don't necessarily divide, N/(M**X) might end up being still much larger than M 00:50:50 Also yay I did every lisp and recursive functions! 00:50:54 Now to do the lambda and shit 00:51:00 unless you go to fractions 00:51:05 oerjan: coo coo 00:51:21 Slereah_: can you define types in mathematica? 00:51:22 ehird: huh? 00:51:32 ehird : No idea 00:52:09 oerjan: coo=cool 00:52:18 ehird: oh, in floating point the going to fractions version would be the mantissa, i think 00:52:24 Slereah_: Do you know how to bring up the last line in mathematica? It's so annoying going to it and hitting enter 00:52:38 actually enter doesn't work 00:52:39 In[21]:= I =. 00:52:39 During evaluation of In[21]:= Unset::wrsym: Symbol \[ImaginaryI] is \ 00:52:39 Protected. >> 00:52:39 Out[21]= $Failed 00:52:40 you have to copy/paste 00:52:41 huuuu 00:52:44 oh, or significand 00:52:48 Damn you 00:54:14 ehird: actually http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Significand seems to have two meanings related to my two last suggestions 00:54:27 kay 00:56:48 Hm 00:56:58 I'm not sure Mathematica can actually handle lambdas 00:57:08 It's not too hard to do, but still 00:57:41 Slereah_: just represent them as {lambda,closure,code} 00:58:53 Hm. 00:58:58 Now for the pi calculus... 01:00:57 Let's try out a bit the recursive functions first 01:02:29 Slereah_: do you know what is cool? 01:02:31 Plot3D. 01:02:36 It's okay 01:02:41 ! 01:02:51 Ah, maybe I have to define primitive recursion, too 01:03:59 go one step further and define jurassic recursion 01:04:44 (you may have to invent the term first) 01:04:54 the meaning of it, i mean 01:05:27 rec[x_, y__, f_, g_] := If[x == 0, g[y], f[x, y, f[x - 1], y]] 01:05:27 Hope it werks 01:09:49 1[1, 1, s[p[3, 1]], 1[0, 1]] < This does not look very worky 01:10:30 Slereah_: how can x be 0 01:10:32 it's a sequence 01:11:16 hmm 01:11:23 i has a mathematica function that doth not work myself 01:11:29 No it's not 01:11:33 x_ is just one element 01:11:44 y__ is many 01:12:33 Slereah_: er 01:12:36 just one element is just "x" 01:12:45 Nnnno? 01:12:45 oh 01:12:47 you are right 01:12:48 waitttt 01:12:52 Slereah_: what happens if you just do 01:12:54 f[x] 01:12:56 does it think its an atom 01:12:57 Lessee 01:12:59 THAT SOLVES MY PROBLEM 01:12:59 <3 01:13:52 HelloWorld[x_] := 01:13:53 Round[96.75 + -21.98*Cos[x*1.118] + 01:13:54 13.29*Sin[x*1.118] + -8.387*Cos[2*x*1.118] + 01:13:56 17.94*Sin[2*x*1.118] + 1.265*Cos[3*x*1.118] + 01:13:58 16.58*Sin[3*x*1.118] + 3.988*Cos[4*x*1.118] + 01:14:00 8.463*Sin[4*x*1.118] + 0.3583*Cos[5*x*1.118] + 01:14:02 5.878*Sin[5*x*1.118]] 01:14:04 LATER: 01:14:06 In[70]:= FromCharacterCode[HelloWorld /@ Range[0, 11]] 01:14:08 Out[70]= "Hello world!" 01:14:14 (http://www.poromenos.org/node/89) 01:14:29 In[55]:= rec[x_, y__, f_, g_] := 01:14:29 If[x == 0, g[y], f[x, y, g, f[x - 1, y]]] 01:14:29 In[54]:= plus[x_, y_] := rec[x, y, y, s[p[3, x]]] 01:14:29 In[56]:= plus[1, 1] 01:14:29 Out[56]= 1[1, 1, s[p[3, 1]], 1[0, 1]] 01:14:32 fuuuu 01:14:51 erm 01:14:55 Slereah_: rec[x,y,y 01:14:59 so you pass in y as f 01:15:01 and from your code 01:15:02 f[ 01:15:06 so you're trying to call 1 as a function 01:15:07 don't 01:15:36 Oh yeah 01:15:47 It should be... well, the projection function, really 01:15:51 I think I fitted ("fut"?) a Hello, World! polynom; I don't remember what the purpose was. 01:16:51 Except... I can't really pass the projection function as a function? 01:16:52 Aaaargh 01:17:18 I need to redefine p as a class of functions, I guess 01:17:18 Slereah_: You need to implement that yourself, I think. 01:17:29 An argument brings back the correct projection function 01:18:05 Although I'm not too sure how to do it 01:19:30 Ah, I can just use Part 01:21:38 HelloWorld[ 01:21:38 x_] := -95650 + (21843120265*x)/72072 - (112096622047*x^2)/ 01:21:40 277200 + (555063110881*x^3)/1814400 - (536874245743*x^4)/ 01:21:42 3628800 + (353243077547*x^5)/7257600 - (54539603707*x^6)/ 01:21:44 4838400 + (1696200589*x^7)/907200 - (1079063647*x^8)/ 01:21:46 4838400 + (68808973*x^9)/3628800 - (16265027*x^10)/ 01:21:48 14515200 + (872351*x^11)/19958400 - (53819*x^12)/ 01:21:50 53222400 + (991*x^13)/94348800 01:21:52 An alternate hello world function. 01:21:54 Has comma, newline. 01:22:59 * pikhq is scared 01:24:19 * pikhq contemplates jurassic recursion 01:26:26 Ah, getting closer 01:26:35 While 1+1=1, at least there's a result. 01:28:08 bye 01:28:26 Oh, I guess I can't compose functions like that. 01:28:37 fuuuu 01:29:49 pikhq: it probably involves a food chain somehow 01:37:06 -!- Slereah_ has set topic: We Conjure the Spirits of the Computer with our Spells | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/. 01:37:41 you are trying to confuse the magickians even more, i take 01:37:52 I'm in favor. 01:38:05 * pikhq wants someone to think of him as a technomage. :) 01:39:39 It's actually a song 01:39:46 http://dqn.dqn.lol.googlepages.com/SICP_wizard.jpg/SICP_wizard-full;init:.jpg 01:39:46 http://dqn.dqn.lol.googlepages.com/GJS_Jay_Sussman_Feat._JSB_Sebastian_.mp3 01:46:34 Hey wait 01:46:51 Although Limp would be a bitch to program on Mathematica, or anywhere, really 01:46:58 Arithmetica should be easy to whip up! 01:54:35 ... 01:54:47 Pi is a protected symbol 01:55:26 Ah, you can unprotect shit 01:55:28 Good 01:59:58 Kudos to Mathematica, for it has the obsolete greek characters 02:04:52 what, digamma? 02:14:05 Yeah 02:14:35 Also koppa, stigma and sampi 02:15:58 so can it give results in greek numerals? 02:20:02 I'm trying to define the syntax so that it does, but so far, not a lot of results 02:27:14 -!- oerjan has quit ("Good night"). 03:18:53 who's home 04:18:02 -!- zzo38 has joined. 04:18:26 Well, how do *you* think FlogScript and GolfScript compare with each other? 04:20:03 Nobody has been on here for more than an hour? 04:20:35 HONTOU 04:20:40 NI HONTOU 04:21:06 What's HONTOU 04:21:17 What's NI HONTOU 04:22:30 Do you know how to make up a music for MZX game, some people on other channel doesn't do that 04:24:07 This one I can't sent CTRL+G it tells me is no text to send. 04:26:30 O it is slow that's why it doesn't work OK 04:27:32 -!- zzo38 has quit ("!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!"). 04:46:19 -!- psygnisfive has joined. 05:05:28 -!- Corun has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 07:09:02 -!- Sgeo has quit ("Leaving"). 07:10:15 i think GregorR said lzma was fast 07:10:34 gzip - 26 minutes, bzip2, 110 minutes, lzma - 246 minutes 07:59:59 -!- clog has quit (ended). 08:00:00 -!- clog has joined. 08:20:12 -!- psygnisfive has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 08:37:39 -!- bsmntbombdood has quit (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net). 08:38:26 -!- bsmntbombdood has joined. 08:42:34 -!- M0ny has joined. 09:06:58 -!- M0ny has quit ("Read error: 182 (Connection reset by beer)"). 10:08:10 -!- deveah has joined. 10:08:25 morning 10:59:35 -!- deveah has changed nick to deveah|afk. 11:18:01 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 11:34:14 -!- Slereah_ has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 11:34:16 -!- Slereah has joined. 11:36:42 -!- FireFly has joined. 11:48:28 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined. 11:54:41 -!- BeholdMyGlory_ has joined. 12:02:30 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Nick collision from services.). 12:02:33 -!- BeholdMyGlory_ has changed nick to BeholdMyGlory. 12:10:06 -!- Dewio has changed nick to Dewi. 12:23:17 -!- deveah|afk has changed nick to deveah. 12:24:17 -!- Corun has joined. 12:32:50 -!- BeholdMyGlory_ has joined. 12:33:47 Hm 12:33:56 Can you redefine the syntax in Mathematica? 12:34:11 I tried using ^:=, but it doesn't seem to work so well 12:40:05 -!- Corun has quit (Remote closed the connection). 12:42:43 -!- Corun has joined. 12:48:27 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Connection timed out). 12:50:09 -!- BeholdMyGlory_ has changed nick to BeholdMyGlory. 12:56:25 -!- Corun has quit (Remote closed the connection). 13:22:35 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 13:37:54 -!- deveah has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 13:53:12 -!- oerjan has joined. 14:25:53 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving"). 14:44:30 -!- AnMaster has quit (Connection timed out). 15:11:36 -!- kar8nga has joined. 15:32:22 -!- dd-flex has joined. 15:48:21 -!- azumanga has joined. 15:52:45 -!- dd-flex has left (?). 16:03:09 -!- azumanga has quit. 16:35:20 -!- ehird has left (?). 16:35:38 -!- ehird has joined. 16:39:19 00:39 Slereah_: It's actually a song ← originally a sick pea lecture quote 16:39:27 and i liked that song before it was cool :| 16:39:43 00:54 Slereah_: Pi is a protected symbol 16:39:43 00:55 Slereah_: Ah, you can unprotect shit 16:39:44 00:55 Slereah_: Good 16:39:46 good god, just giv eit another name 16:41:22 -!- seanstickle has joined. 16:54:31 Hi seanstickle 16:54:40 Hi ehird ! 16:54:53 haven't seen you here before, you new? 16:55:12 I am. I saw a reference to the channel from coverage of the Brainfuck KOTH 16:55:17 (/me looks at logs and notices two other new people since Slereah changed the topic. coincidence? I think not) 16:55:20 Thought I'd stop in and see what all is cool and stuff 16:55:23 seanstickle: "Brainfuck KOTH", heh 16:55:29 's just ais5523's BF Joust variant :-) 16:55:34 Yes 16:55:49 if you want to play, "!bfjoust nameofchallenger code" in here or /msg EgoBot works. http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/report.txt has the report :-) 16:55:52 Back in the day, I dabbled in Corewar, and this seemed interesting to me 16:56:00 Yar. 16:56:18 \translate-pirate-speech 16:56:31 Yes, but more ... pirate. 16:57:07 Hmm... the first comment on http://retrocode.blogspot.com/2009/05/bf-joust-king-of-hill.html: "BF? this was that whole thing that came out of where perl stands?". I tell you, when the last esolang finally loses its last user, someone will make that tired joke. 17:00:07 Slereah: 17:00:08 FromCharacterCode[72 + (29 + (-11 + (5/2 + (-5/24 + (-3/4 + (241/360 17:00:10 + (-171/560 + (3779/40320 + (-31/1440 + (197/50400 + (-11521/19958400 17:00:12 + (1523*(-12 + #1))/21772800)*(-11 + #1))*(-10 + #1))*(-9 + #1))*(-8 17:00:14 + #1))*(-7 + #1))*(-6 + #1))*(-5 + #1))*(-4 + #1))*(-3 + #1))*(-2 + 17:00:16 #1))*(-1 + #1)& /@ Range[13]] 17:01:04 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote closed the connection). 17:07:01 -!- ehird has set topic: We Conjure the Spirits of the Computer with our Spells | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D. 17:12:25 -!- coppro has joined. 17:21:54 -!- Taejo has joined. 17:27:01 -!- seanstickle has left (?). 17:27:55 !bfjout Neniam [>-] 17:34:59 It's amusing how impomatic can make this channel twice as active :-) 17:35:05 Taejo: try "joust" 17:35:38 ehird: right 17:35:41 !bfjoust Neniam [>-] 17:35:50 Score for Neniam: -7 (maximum 25) 17:36:43 Taejo: that does not blank any cell 17:36:49 Taejo: it also stops immediately 17:36:56 wait, no 17:36:59 Taejo: it just does 17:37:11 0 0 0 0 -> 255 0 0 0 -> 255 255 0 0 -> 17:37:11 etc 17:37:16 yes 17:37:26 that makes your opponent possibly slow down 17:37:29 but never blanks their flag 17:37:35 indeed 17:37:37 !bfjoust Neniel [-+] 17:37:46 does bfjoust have +? 17:37:47 defend, Neniel, defend 17:37:51 wait that was fukyorbrane 17:38:08 Taejo: an improvement to consider: if it's non-zero, [-]. otherwise, - 17:38:15 that'll set up a lot of guards, but get rid of flags (but also duds) 17:38:48 Score for Neniel: -11 (maximum 25) 17:38:57 ehird: yeah, just throwing in a few trivialities to get myself going. been a while since I wrote brainfuck 17:39:00 :) 17:39:30 ehird: is it +1 for a win, -1 for a loss, 0 for a draw? 17:41:16 I think it's -1 for a draw or something 17:41:20 The program is a bit odd and has some bugs, iirc 17:45:19 ehird: struggling to figure out the "otherwise" part of your improvement 17:45:46 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 17:46:15 Taejo: As in, if the cell we're on is zero, decrement one. This makes it 255, and serves as a barrier. If it's non-zero, [-] to set it to zero. This wipes out flags, but slows down on duds. However, your current program can never win a match, so it's an improvement. 17:46:52 ehird: I meant, I'm struggling to figure out how to implement it 17:47:20 Taejo: Hmm. Something like: 17:47:25 !bfjoust ---[>[-]---] 17:47:25 Use: !bfjoust 17:48:07 Is program name the name of an existing program, or one that I make up? 17:48:12 Make up. 17:48:18 !bfjoust MzX ---[>[-]---] 17:48:28 Score for MzX: -4 (maximum 26) 17:49:14 !bfjoust Neniel (>)*10-[[-]>-] 17:49:49 Taejo: [-[>(I forget how, but: If non-zero,)[-](else)-(endif)].+] 17:49:51 Something like that. 17:50:06 http://esolangs.org/wiki/Brainfuck_algorithms 17:50:15 ehird: excellent 17:50:15 Score for Neniel: -11 (maximum 26) 17:50:24 Taejo: But with actual code in place of (placeholders) :P 18:00:07 strange game: the score reported by the bot is different from the one in http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/report.txt 18:01:07 Yeah. 18:01:09 !bfjoust Neniel2 (>)*10-[[-]>>-] 18:01:11 That's called a bug. :-) 18:01:31 Score for Neniel2: -7 (maximum 27) 18:01:46 It'd be nice if people prefixed their prog names with their name. 18:02:00 ehird: sorry, never thought about it 18:02:03 'sok 18:02:04 :-) 18:02:50 -!- Taejo has changed nick to Neni. 18:02:55 ehird: there 18:03:03 oh, this nick is registered 18:03:03 Neni: hahaha 18:03:07 -!- Neni has changed nick to Nen. 18:03:12 this one too 18:03:48 -!- Nen has changed nick to Ne. 18:04:01 /nick N 18:04:04 /nick 18:04:08 /nick 18:04:09 /nic 18:04:12 etc 18:04:20 I give up, they're all registered 18:04:23 -!- Ne has changed nick to Taejo. 18:04:32 Taejo: try Nenie 18:05:05 ehird: that's not a prefix of Neniam 18:05:15 -!- Taejo has changed nick to Nenie. 18:05:19 Taejo: your pograms are Neniel 18:05:23 Nenie is a prefix of Neniel 18:05:47 my first was called Neniam 18:06:02 !bfjoust MzX >[-]-[>[-]-] 18:06:09 it's esperanto for never, since it would never win a game 18:06:24 Neniel = no way, nenie = nowhere 18:06:24 heh 18:06:28 Score for MzX: -6 (maximum 27) 18:08:45 !bfjoust Nenie.hopeful (>->+)*5[[-]>>-] 18:08:46 -!- inurinternet has joined. 18:09:03 Nenie: think . is invalid 18:09:21 !bfjoust MzX2 >--->+++>--->+[>[-[-[-[++++[+[+[-]]]]]]]--->[-[-[-[++++[+[+[-]]]]]]]+++] 18:09:55 Score for MzX2: -7 (maximum 29) 18:09:59 beh 18:10:05 !bfjoust Nenie_hopeful (>->+)*5[[-]>>-] 18:10:53 Score for Nenie_hopeful: -6 (maximum 28) 18:11:55 Score for Nenie_hopeful: -3 (maximum 29) 18:13:02 -!- AnMaster has joined. 18:15:44 !bfjoust MzX_fail [-]-[+<[-]-] 18:16:07 MizardX: that goes left off tape 18:16:26 I know. I wanted too see how low score you can get 18:16:41 Score for MzX_fail: -9 (maximum 30) 18:16:43 :D 18:16:58 !bfjoust ehird_rubbish [-]. 18:17:56 Score for ehird_rubbish: -11 (maximum 31) 18:18:24 !bfjoust ehird_rubbish2 < 18:18:25 !bfjoust lifthrasiir_stupid >--->+++>--->+[[>][-][<]+] 18:18:30 Score for ehird_rubbish2: -2 (maximum 33) 18:18:30 Score for lifthrasiir_stupid: -4 (maximum 33) 18:18:36 seems... interesting. 18:18:41 I think my -11 is the worst yet 18:18:47 Wait a second. 18:18:52 !bfjoust ehird_rubbish3 [+]. 18:18:58 I think that may obliterate itself even faster. 18:19:46 -!- psygnisfive has joined. 18:20:05 Score for ehird_rubbish3: -12 (maximum 34) 18:20:09 wait, my bfjoust code didn't match my intention. 18:20:12 MWAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! 18:20:17 I win at losing! 18:20:33 ofc that's just because there's one more challenger 18:20:38 ehird: how about []? 18:20:58 lifthrasiir: mine does better, as it completely erases itself instantly 18:21:00 i.e., suicides 18:21:04 instead of waiting to be killed 18:21:08 ah right 18:21:17 well not instantly it takes some cycles 18:21:19 but you can't do it faster 18:22:29 !bfjoust MzX3 >(+[[-]>+])*3 18:23:14 Score for MzX3: -7 (maximum 35) 18:23:54 * ehird idea 18:24:02 !bfjoust ehird_rubbish4 (-)*128 18:24:09 Takes less cycles ;). 18:24:09 Score for ehird_rubbish4: -6 (maximum 36) 18:24:15 (Since, iirc, looping has a cos— WTF? 18:24:18 Er, ). 18:25:19 !bfjoust lifthrasiir_stupid2 >--->+++>--->+[>[-]+] 18:25:59 Score for lifthrasiir_stupid2: -10 (maximum 37) 18:26:05 ;) 18:26:29 frankly i cannot think of any stretagy for bfjoust 18:26:38 !bfjoust MzX4 >+[[>]<[-]>+] 18:26:39 lifthrasiir: defend, attack, and another 18:26:42 ais523 found 3 18:26:43 and he made it 18:26:46 Score for MzX4: -4 (maximum 38) 18:27:51 !bfjoust lifthrasiir_stupid3 >--->+++>--->>+[[+>][<]] 18:28:11 wait that will overflow... omg. 18:28:16 !bfjoust MzX5 >+[[->+][>]<[-]>+] 18:28:32 Score for MzX5: -4 (maximum 40) 18:28:59 Score for lifthrasiir_stupid3: -12 (maximum 39) 18:29:10 !bfjoust lifthrasiir_stupid4 >--->+++>--->>+[[+>][<]>] 18:29:43 bfjoust is slooooow >:( 18:29:50 Slow like a green. 18:29:50 slooooooow :p 18:30:11 Score for lifthrasiir_stupid4: -11 (maximum 41) 18:30:15 huh? 18:30:23 it didn't work at all as expected 18:34:06 !bfjoust MzX6 >++++>---->++++>+[>[->>]<[-]>+] 18:34:12 !bfjoust copppro1 >+[[-]>+] 18:34:31 Score for MzX6: -6 (maximum 42) 18:34:34 !showinterp bfjoust 18:35:06 Score for copppro1: -8 (maximum 43) 18:35:14 bfjoust isn't a userinterp. 18:35:17 oh 18:35:24 how do you actually play someone else? 18:35:24 But it's Perl and slow :P 18:35:30 oh, nevermind I get it 18:35:34 When you give a program, it p--- yeah :P 18:35:36 the score is you versus everyone else 18:35:49 anyway to delete a program 18:35:55 Yuh, and it gives a breakdown at http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/report.txt 18:35:58 You ask me to delete it :P 18:36:11 GregorR-L: can you delete all of the crap ones :P 18:36:11 I see a blank file 18:36:35 coppro: It has to finish running them all before it can generate the report, which takes for freaking ever X_X 18:36:56 GregorR-L: it shows a blank fully loaded file 18:37:04 not a waiting thing 18:37:05 yes. 18:37:10 coppro: it does 18:37:11 foo>report.txt 18:37:15 which blanks report.txt first 18:37:17 oh 18:37:21 that's why cat a b>a doesn't work 18:38:23 What does "." do in bfjoust? 18:38:28 wait 18:38:56 MizardX: nop 18:39:03 MizardX: the opponent has to be 0 for two cycles 18:39:08 so if you know it's not defending, you can . to nop 18:39:09 etc 18:40:02 it's still not loaded :( 18:40:17 Somebody rewrite bfjoust.pl in C :P 18:40:30 And/or determine why it's so slow. 18:40:39 GregorR-L: it's ais523 code 18:40:44 i don't know how that's relevant 18:40:48 but it's probably very inherent 18:40:53 I bet he used a really slow perl feature or something 18:41:02 lots of regexes 18:41:19 coppro: perl regexs are superoptimized 18:41:26 Holy crapsicles, there are like 30 programs here. 18:41:29 I wrote a haskell slashes interp, and it was beaten by oerjan's which abused every feature of perl regexs 18:41:33 and that's compiled haskell 18:42:23 s/^(\(((?:[\-+<>.*0-9%\[\]]|$bgroup)*)\{(?(?:[\-+<>.*0-9%\[\]]|$bgroup|\{(?&BRACE)\})*)\}(?(?:[\-+<>.*0-9%{}\[\]]|$bgroup)*)\))\%(?[0-9]+)/$+{NUM} ? "$2$1%".($+{NUM}-1).$+{AFTER} : $+{BRACE}/ex 18:42:24 yike 18:42:26 *yikes 18:42:29 Oerjan's crazy. 18:43:17 s/^(\(((?:[\-+<>.*0-9%\[\]]|$bgroup)*)\{(?(?:[\-+<>.*0-9%\[\]]|$bgroup|\{(?&BRACE)\})*)\}(?(?:[\-+<>.*0-9%{}\[\]]|$bgroup)*)\))\%(?[0-9]+)/$+{NUM} ? "$2$1%".($+{NUM}-1).$+{AFTER} : $+{BRACE}/ex 18:43:25 Erm. 18:43:27 Ehm. 18:43:40 I am talking about http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/slashes/slashes.pl 18:43:44 Trying to just select that and send it to someone else. 18:43:46 Not whatever you guys are talking about. 18:43:51 pikhq: that's not oerjan's code. 18:43:54 Maybe it's from bfjoust.pl 18:43:59 It looks very ais523 18:44:00 He loves /e 18:44:00 ehird: That's also insane. 18:44:09 that paste is from bfjoust, yes 18:44:11 pikhq: Eh, there's only one gnarly regexp 18:44:14 if (s!^/((?:[^/\\]|\\.)*)/((?:[^/\\]|\\.)*)/!!s) { 18:44:17 which isn't that bad really 18:44:21 It's the timeouts that kill it. 18:44:30 GregorR-L: Just kill all of 'em? 18:44:33 Nothing much valuable here 18:44:36 *ther 18:44:36 When the programs time out, they can take as long as 3 seconds. 18:44:36 e 18:44:48 I'm deleting any of them that timeout, one sec :P 18:45:11 -!- M0ny has joined. 18:47:18 !bfjoust attack2 [>[-]+] 18:47:23 Score for attack2: -2 (maximum 5) 18:47:26 \o/ 18:47:30 Only 5 challengers now. 18:47:31 That's good. 18:47:42 report.txt is still blank 18:47:46 GregorR-L: you should make it delete the worst few challengers every now and then, say 18:47:50 coppro: BE. PATIENT! 18:47:53 GregorR-L: or just do it manually 18:47:59 Is it possible to get positive score? 18:48:00 there's 5 programs! 18:48:03 I could make report.txt do that. 18:48:12 coppro: That's 25 runs, it's up now. 18:48:19 oh, yay 18:48:44 ... 18:48:45 GregorR-L? 18:48:51 You deleted impomatic's programs. 18:48:55 Why did you do that? 18:49:11 I reverted everything. Which programs do you want to keep, I didn't delete anything permanently. 18:49:46 ... 18:49:49 Only the ones doing badly... 18:49:54 (And ones labeled "fail" etc.) 18:50:13 !bfjoust MzX >+[[>]<[-]>+] 18:50:14 Score for MzX: -1 (maximum 6) 18:50:14 (Anything with a positive score is absolutely not doing badly :P) 18:50:16 It took so freaking long to generate the report I didn't know which ones were doing badly :P 18:50:29 !bfjoust staller [.][+.][>[-]+] 18:50:40 Score for staller: -3 (maximum 7) 18:51:15 GregorR-L: why does it rerun every program when a new one is added? Can't it just use the old data? 18:51:41 It could, but I wrote it for FYB and FYB was fast enough that that doesn't matter :P 18:51:55 It would just be a PITA >_> 19:00:08 -!- Nenie has changed nick to Taejo. 19:00:36 !bfjoust taejo.simplexity (>->+)*5[[-]>-] 19:00:43 Score for taejo_simplexity: -1 (maximum 8) 19:03:13 -!- inurinternet has quit (No route to host). 19:05:05 -!- psygnisfive has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)). 19:07:45 !bfjoust taejo.jumpndrag (>)*10-[[-]>-] 19:07:50 Score for taejo_jumpndrag: -5 (maximum 9) 19:08:14 !bfjoust taejo.jumpndrag >-(>)*9-[[-]>-] 19:08:20 Score for taejo_jumpndrag: -3 (maximum 9) 19:13:10 !bfjoust taejo.drag >-(>+)*9-[[-]>-] 19:13:17 Score for taejo_drag: -7 (maximum 10) 19:36:57 !bfjoust taejo.jumpndrag (>)*10-[>[-]+] 19:36:58 Score for taejo_jumpndrag: -2 (maximum 10) 19:37:25 !bfjoust taejo.simplexity (>->+)*5[>[-]+] 19:37:26 Score for taejo_simplexity: -4 (maximum 10) 19:37:34 !bfjoust taejo.simplexity (>->+)*5[[-]>-] 19:37:41 Score for taejo_simplexity: -2 (maximum 10) 20:11:13 !bfjoust lifthrasiir.stupid +[[+>][+<]>] 20:11:20 Score for lifthrasiir_stupid: -5 (maximum 11) 20:11:31 !bfjoust lifthrasiir.stupid >>+[[+>][+<]>] 20:11:46 Score for lifthrasiir_stupid: -5 (maximum 11) 20:11:48 hmm. 20:12:04 !bfjoust lifthrasiir.stupid >>+[[+>][<]>>] 20:12:18 Score for lifthrasiir_stupid: -5 (maximum 11) 20:13:11 !bfjoust lifthrasiir.stupid >+[[-]->+] 20:13:19 Score for lifthrasiir_stupid: -2 (maximum 10) 20:13:44 -!- ais523 has joined. 20:17:34 -!- kar8nga has joined. 20:27:17 hi ais523 20:27:22 hi 20:27:46 ais523: GregorR-L (stupidly) reset bf joust when I told him to just remove some of the time-out, deliberately-terrible ones. 20:27:55 So your challengers are gone. impomatic's too. 20:28:03 I was wondering what caused the reset 20:28:08 but all my challengers are saved on my hard-drive 20:28:12 Timeouts. 20:29:06 pikhq: yeah but he just wiped it all 20:29:09 that's not weeding out the timeouters 20:29:26 -!- oerjan has joined. 20:29:44 well, defence programs playing each other can often both wait for the opponent to arrive, and the opponent doesn't 20:30:01 my interp detects when both interps are stuck in a tight infinite loop (i.e. []) 20:30:05 but not other situations 20:31:22 He said some opponents lagged up to 3 seconds. 20:31:27 So you should really put an upper bound on it. 20:31:30 A smaller one :P 20:31:42 it's deliberately large for various reasons 20:31:52 such as wait-for-ages-then-attack-slowly programs 20:33:45 !bfjoust ais523_attack5 [>[-]-.-.-.-.-.-] 20:33:47 Score for ais523_attack5: -2 (maximum 11) 20:34:00 !bfjoust ais523_defend5 >+>+([{>[(.)*20-]+}]<..........-[++[[]<(-..-.)*300>[>[-]+]]]<(+..+.)*300>[>[-]+])%2000 20:34:25 ais523: then don't make it overwrite the report while it calculates? :P 20:34:28 Or is that a GregorR-L thing 20:34:45 it's copied from the fyb interp, that does the same thing 20:34:56 but if the report's inaccurate, not showing it seems appropriate 20:35:03 Score for ais523_defend5: -3 (maximum 12) 20:36:00 !bfjoust wait_forever +[.+] 20:36:02 Score for wait_forever: -3 (maximum 12) 20:36:48 pikhq: that doesn't wait forever, it'll suicide after a while 20:36:55 Fik. 20:37:10 !bfjout wait_forever +[.[-]+] 20:37:11 !bfjoust wait_forever [+-] 20:37:13 FTFY. 20:37:18 (Your flag starts on.) 20:37:25 Ah. 20:37:34 note that falling off the end of the program isn't a loss 20:37:38 just a detected infinite loop 20:37:40 "ftfy" stands for "fixed that for you" 20:37:54 Score for wait_forever: -5 (maximum 12) 20:38:02 !bfjoust wait_forever [.[-](+)*128] 20:38:03 :p 20:38:09 oh man 20:38:11 Score for wait_forever: -2 (maximum 12) 20:38:14 someone with an IBM T221 20:38:20 how could you use those things, everything would be so small 20:38:24 way too high dpi and res for 22" :-) 20:39:23 they paid $3k for it :P 20:39:39 !bfjoust lifthrasiir.defend1 >[+>+<(+>)*2(+<)*2(+>)*3(+<)*3(+>)*4(+<)*4(+>)*5(+<)*5(+>)*6(+<)*6(+>)*7(+<)*7(+>)*8(+<)*8(+>)*9(+<)*9] 20:39:46 Score for lifthrasiir_defend1: -5 (maximum 11) 20:39:48 ehird: maybe they used large and very well-shaped fonts 20:39:49 ehird: You can up the DPI setting, you know. 20:39:49 oops. 20:39:53 you wouldn't need anti-aliasing with something like that 20:39:57 ais523: they didn't 20:39:58 http://codehaus.org/~topping/screen.JPG 20:40:02 regular windows xp font sizes 20:40:07 which are tiny even on this 100dpi display 20:40:09 That's just dumb. 20:40:14 their IDE has a tiny font size too 20:40:43 I've got larger fonts in my terminal. 20:40:46 this is tasty coffee 20:40:50 And that's a freaking 9 point font! 20:41:23 ... And that's a 22" monitor? *Jeeze*. 20:41:34 pikhq: I have a 165dpi display. 20:41:37 ... it's an iPhone :-) 20:41:45 Only 3.5" inches and 480x320, but still. 20:41:53 s/ inches// 20:42:00 19" monitor. 20:42:18 1400x900. 20:42:24 I have a "bog standard" 20" widescreen iMac thingy at 1680x1050. 20:42:30 Almost exactly 100dpi. 20:42:42 i sooo don't understand fonts 20:42:48 bsmntbombdood: wat 20:42:50 Similar in DPI to my monitor. 20:42:57 Kinda cheap monitor, but whatever. 20:43:17 pikhq: Whaat? 20:43:22 Yours is 87dpi. 20:43:32 ehird: I said *similar*. 20:43:42 pikhq: The only range actually sold commonly is 84-100... 20:43:47 And the difference between 87 and 100 is gigantic. 20:43:51 Ah. 20:44:04 Anything ~94dpi or above is hard to make out the pixels on, but below that it's quite visible. 20:44:11 * pikhq would ideally like, say, a 20" or 22" 1080p monitor...] 20:44:28 * pikhq shrugs 20:44:34 I'm going for a 22" or 24" ... "1200p" monitor. 20:44:36 That's of the money-cost variety, though. 20:45:10 Haven't decided which. The 24"s have about 94-96dpi, which means I don't have to configure that sort of stuff (since it's default on just about everything) and things should be mostly the size that everyone else sees them as, but otoh 24" is bloody huge. 20:45:19 i do need to get a new monitor also 20:45:29 I mean, it might actually hurt my neck. 20:45:41 pikhq: http://www.novoventus.com/pics/T2211x.jpg pic of a T221 20:45:45 illegible as all fuck 20:45:45 I use my monitor for video display, as well. 20:45:58 Be nice to have something slightly larger. 20:45:58 who doesn't 20:46:13 But heck; in a dorm room, 19" works. 20:46:48 I just want a high-dpi ~30" screen mounted further behind me, but alas my room does not want that in its geometry. 20:46:53 Would be nice, though. 20:46:59 ehird: ... Wow. 20:47:07 pikhq: What was that wow to? 20:47:10 The pic or my comment? 20:47:14 The pic. 20:47:18 Right. 20:47:20 Completely unusable. 20:47:29 It *could* be usable. 20:47:32 pikhq: "The window in the top left is a 1600x1200 remote desktop. :|" 20:47:36 ehird: why would you want a screen behind your head? 20:47:40 you wouldn't be able to see it 20:47:42 ais523: Er. 20:47:43 :P 20:47:57 pikhq: THEY HAVE A REMOTE DESKTOP BIGGER THAN MY SCREEN IN A SMALL CORNER 20:47:58 AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 20:48:00 Configure your DPI settings right and you'll get some gorgeous fonts. 20:48:16 ehird: THEY COULD DISPLAY 4 1080P VIDEOS ON IT! 20:48:21 Wait 20:48:27 pikhq: Why the fuck would you want to do that. 20:48:33 Unless you have 4 brains. 20:48:35 I DON'T KNOW 20:48:39 GOOD POINT 20:48:42 WHO CARES I WANT ONE. 20:48:44 BUT THEY COULD 20:48:54 And SD video... 20:48:57 Haha 20:49:02 !show slashes 20:49:03 perl (sending via DCC) 20:49:06 You could probably display most of your cable stations on it at once. 20:49:40 !addinterp test perl http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/slashes/slashes.pl 20:49:40 There is already an interpreter for test! 20:49:44 ais523: remember that argument/debate we had about whether "You can X before Y" lets you do X if Y never happens? 20:49:45 huh 20:49:48 !show test 20:49:48 That is not a user interpreter! 20:49:55 ehird: not really 20:49:58 !addinterp test2 perl http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/slashes/slashes.pl 20:49:59 ais523: it was agora-related 20:50:00 Interpreter test2 installed. 20:50:05 !show test2 20:50:06 perl 20:50:09 I believe you 20:50:13 !show test2 20:50:13 perl 20:50:14 I just don't remember the details 20:50:16 ais523: the internets seem to agree with you (you can't do X): http://cowbird.110mb.com/185/premarital.png 20:50:18 although I vaguely remembre it happened 20:50:19 why the heck 20:50:28 !delinterp test2 20:50:29 Interpreter test2 deleted. 20:50:38 Proposal: {All rule disputes are settled via reddit posts} 20:50:42 !addinterp test2 perl http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/slashes/slashes-int 20:50:44 Interpreter test2 installed. 20:50:48 ehird: also, someone tried to set up a paradox in the FRC like that once, it failed but for unrelated reasons 20:50:49 !show test2 20:50:49 perl (sending via DCC) 20:51:02 wait, no, that one succeeded, and the judge had to keep giving provisional judgements 20:51:02 !delinterp test2 20:51:03 Interpreter test2 deleted. 20:51:14 pikhq: What we need is flipbook monitors. 20:51:19 Extreme dpi! 20:51:36 It seems the nvg web server has suddenly decided to treat *.pl files differently. perhaps it's trying to run them or something... 20:52:21 oerjan: did you chmod +x it? 20:52:47 -!- psygnisfive has joined. 20:53:03 ehird: sure, i did my testing directly in that directory 20:53:13 however - hm wait 20:53:17 oerjan: chmod -x it then 20:53:34 but i think it was like that previously, and they reinstalled the web server or something 20:53:40 it was down for a day or so 20:54:30 ehird: the thing is, slashes-int has the same permissions but loads as text, so it's definitely extension oriented 20:54:35 so what's a good way to do backups? 20:54:50 bsmntbombdood: rsync and shit? 20:55:04 tar too. 20:55:05 it would be cool to have them completely incremental 20:55:13 ehird: in fact chmod a-x helped nothing 20:55:16 rsync does incremental backups. 20:55:30 bsmntbombdood: completely? You want to do a full one every now and then 20:55:31 * oerjan just renames to something else, they use #! lines anyway 20:55:36 Prolly. 20:55:43 i don't think i linked from the wiki to them 20:56:52 there you are. btw that directory has no index.html so you can look into it if you want 20:56:59 Sorry, that would be rdiff-backup. 20:57:19 Which makes incremental rdiff deltas. 20:57:29 (rdiff being the rsync delta algorithm) 20:57:42 I might backup nightly. Since my new system will be silent enough to leave on :P 20:57:49 Need a fuckload of external storage, though. 20:58:10 -!- azumanga has joined. 20:58:28 hi azumanga 20:58:33 haven't seen you before you new here? etc. 20:58:53 i can't imagine incremental backups taking that much space 20:59:15 bsmntbombdood: i calculated it at like 2TB 20:59:37 i'd probably just buy 4TB of drives and stick 'em in an enclosure, since that's like $200, but drive failure. 20:59:45 so i'd prolly want a raid 5 or sth 20:59:48 ehird: Yes, I read a blog post about a brainfuck battle, and a monic, both related to here, and thought that sounded like the kind of channel I might wander in and visit 21:00:02 azumanga: Monic? Do you mean nomic? 21:00:11 Yes, nomic even 21:00:18 Which one was that then? 21:00:30 BF Joust is in here, yes 21:00:34 and it originally started in a nomic 21:00:40 oh, right 21:00:49 4 1tb drives in software raid5 21:00:53 like $350 21:00:58 ais523: That's right 21:00:59 azumanga: http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/report.txt is the current hill 21:01:05 bsmntbombdood: software raid? nonono, external enclosure RAID. 21:01:07 and http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust are the current rules 21:01:14 what if my heatsink explodes? 21:01:15 which have changed a bit since when it was part of the nomic 21:01:17 ehird: no point 21:01:24 bsmntbombdood: well, external enclosure anyway. 21:01:42 also, 1TB drive = $70 21:01:49 5 of them, one as RAID 5 parity = $350 21:01:54 + minimal enclosure cost 21:02:03 * ehird calculates it exactly 21:04:15 So, talking about BF joust (if that's allowed!), what happens if you '-' a 0 value? 21:04:18 bsmntbombdood: issue: there aren't any 5-drive enclosures :-) 21:04:23 azumanga: we're more off-topic than not :-) 21:04:24 azumanga: it becomes 255 21:04:25 and it wraps to 255 21:04:31 likewise, if you + on 255, it becomes 0 21:04:38 that's usual behaviour for 8-bit wrapping BF 21:04:49 ais523: has BF joust been reddited today? 21:04:56 oerjan: impomatic'sbloggitted 21:04:58 oerjan: not as far as I know, but I haven't looked 21:05:05 Yes, it was on reddit 21:05:09 ehird: so use 4... 21:05:20 figures 21:05:24 bsmntbombdood: that's only 3TB of storage! 21:05:26 yep, number 20 on proggit 21:05:33 azumanga: oh, his blog was redditted? 21:05:41 indirectomatic 21:05:49 ah, posted by impomatic himself :P 21:06:06 Although that post wasn't as popular as hotgoth posting it 21:06:15 bsmntbombdood: anyway, there aren't many 3 ones either 21:06:16 Wait, that one was ages ago 21:06:30 ooh, impomatic put the code for his jouster on his blog 21:06:36 !bfjoust reverseattack >+[[-].->+] 21:06:36 which means I can enter it back into EgoBots 21:06:37 Score for reverseattack: -1 (maximum 11) 21:06:40 aw 21:06:45 this is impomatic's, not mine: 21:06:52 !bfjoust shortsword (>++>--)*2(>)*6([-[+]]>)*20 21:06:57 http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817716067 21:07:01 At first I thought - would lock, but then things seemed too trivial, as you would have to all - every block you came across to 0. 21:07:01 that's pretty expensive though 21:07:05 Score for shortsword: -2 (maximum 12) 21:07:14 Now you get a choice between choosing to - it or + it until you hit 0 21:07:15 the in-channel scores seem to be buggy to some extent 21:08:02 bsmntbombdood: (a) $259.99 (b) it has a fucking fan, don't you think it's a little excessive 21:08:12 well, a fan isn't excessiv 21:08:14 ebut the whole thing is 21:08:24 not excessive 21:08:30 bsmntbombdood: "Cons: Adding anything more than 2 drives kills performance and RAID10 doesn't work at all. " 21:08:32 4 drives in a small space will get a little hot 21:08:41 and impomatic's shortsword still wins overall 21:08:46 although it isn't getting 100% wins any more 21:08:46 hmm 21:08:53 ais523: I thought of an unfilled programs-warring niche 21:08:55 Haskell. 21:08:59 ais523: -2 is the largest score? :D 21:09:01 Purely functional battles! 21:09:10 oerjan: the score is actually 10 21:09:12 that's pretty harsh 21:09:14 oh 21:09:16 just the in-channel scores seem buggy somehow 21:09:19 and I haven't worked out how 21:09:31 :D reverseattack is the second-best 21:10:08 ais523: you should have named it impomatic_shortsword 21:10:12 we started prepending our n ames 21:10:38 !bfjoust ehird_drowstrohs (>-->++)*2(>)*6([+[-]]>)*20 21:10:43 ehird: ah, good point 21:10:43 Score for ehird_drowstrohs: -2 (maximum 11) 21:10:49 Ooh, exciting 21:10:58 I wrote a haskell slashes interp, and it was beaten by oerjan's which abused every feature of perl regexs 21:10:59 ais523: although the bot should handle that, really 21:11:06 i didn't abuse nothing 21:11:07 oerjan: hyperbole :P 21:11:12 correct 21:11:15 you abused things 21:11:33 ehird: /every/ feature of regexes? that would be impressive 21:11:37 it's not like i'm a perl expert 21:11:41 ais523: :-P 21:11:45 IDScorePtsProgram 21:11:45 487.009ehird_drowstrohs.bfjoust 21:11:48 I AM AT THE TOPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPPP 21:11:51 wait 21:11:53 huh... shortsword was removed! 21:11:54 where it shortsword go? 21:12:01 ehm 21:12:05 ais523: how many points did it get? 21:12:05 so was reverseattack 21:12:07 more or less than 9 21:12:13 GregorR-L: Why did you do that? 21:12:15 it got 9 without reverseattack being there 21:12:20 ehird: 9 21:12:23 heh 21:12:26 and various programs are disappearing 21:12:32 so reversing + and - = same 21:12:32 !bfjoust impomatic_shortsword (>++>--)*2(>)*6([-[+]]>)*20 21:12:36 ais523: GregorR-L is doing something, I suppose 21:12:39 Score for impomatic_shortsword: -2 (maximum 11) 21:12:48 up to no good, I say 21:13:21 ... 21:13:23 Mine just disappeared 21:13:27 yep 21:13:36 ais523: maybe he implemented my "eliminate sucky programs automatically" 21:13:37 except 21:13:39 he mixed it up 21:13:43 and it's removing the best contenders 21:13:59 yep, ehird_shortsword just vanished 21:14:02 yep 21:14:05 21:13 ehird: Mine just disappeared 21:14:11 GregorR-L: YOU BROKE IT UNBREAK IT 21:14:23 !bfjoust azumanga_stupid_tape [(+)*7] 21:14:24 Score for azumanga_stupid_tape: -3 (maximum 11) 21:14:44 azumanga: That is remarkably stupid indeed 21:15:00 Considering that it only ever hurts itself or helps itself not be defeated by 7 cycles 21:15:04 (But lets itself be killed anyway) 21:15:07 !bfjoust stabitty (>-)*8[>[-]-] 21:15:08 Score for stabitty: -2 (maximum 11) 21:15:16 coppro: coppro_stabitty, you mean. 21:15:22 err, sorry 21:15:27 it'll probably be killed pretty quick 21:15:29 :D 21:15:32 yeah 21:15:34 nuclear fallout of some kind 21:15:42 ooh, I see what's happened to the win announcement 21:15:47 ... 21:15:48 wat? 21:15:52 oh 21:15:52 i see 21:15:55 the way it's programmed, it counts wins as losses, losses as losses, and wins as draws 21:16:00 *draws as draws 21:16:02 hahaha 21:16:12 ais523: ooh 21:16:16 the board has been 10 elements, always 21:16:18 all the time 21:16:24 maybe GregorR-L just made it delete shit at random when it grows more 21:16:29 an attempt to make it a final hill 21:16:30 or via some algorithm that we can't figure out yet 21:16:31 *finite hill 21:16:36 but to do that, you should delete the worst program 21:17:14 indeed 21:17:17 that's what i suggested 21:17:29 ais523: yep, the max score has always been 11 21:17:31 ehird: that's what the code /appears/ to do 21:17:32 GregorR-L broked it 21:17:34 it must be buggy 21:17:39 ais523: let's read egobot's cod 21:17:40 e 21:17:41 !bfjoust azumanga_less_stupid >+>++>--->->++>-->+++>+>->[>[-]-] 21:17:42 it IS foss... 21:17:43 I am 21:17:44 atm 21:17:47 ah 21:17:48 Score for azumanga_less_stupid: -5 (maximum 11) 21:17:59 did you know that EgoBot automatically commits the repo whenever you run bf joust? 21:18:01 ais523: link? 21:18:02 also, wow. 21:18:02 I didn't either 21:18:06 Oo 21:18:09 that's in GregorR's new code 21:18:09 ehird: all the external 4 drives enclosures are >$200 21:18:12 his architecture must fucking suck 21:18:15 and link is an hg repo 21:18:16 bsmntbombdood: lame 21:18:29 ais523: correction - the link is a symlink or alias to the hg one 21:18:32 ehird: it keeps the 10 best programs in the repo all the time, or is meant to 21:18:37 the real location is http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/report.txt 21:18:39 i think 21:18:51 ehird: that's not the real location, that one's the symlink 21:18:55 I think 21:19:04 lol wat 21:19:14 haha 21:19:15 ais523: no, since that one has other, unrelated fil— 21:19:16 hey 21:19:20 all the programs' source is available 21:19:24 yes 21:19:25 that so defeats half of the tactics 21:19:31 and not really 21:19:35 sure it does 21:19:39 anyway, looking at the code 21:19:44 with goethe-joust you had to work to find out how other programs worked 21:19:45 it does indeed keep the worst 10 programs 21:19:47 and how to fight them 21:19:50 now, not so much 21:19:52 ShaFuck 21:19:52 This page last ShaFuck is a variant of Brainfuck 21:19:54 updated on that is impossible to 21:19:56 08 May, 2009. write, as writing any program 21:19:58 would require breaking SHA-1. 21:19:59 hm 21:20:00 ·Spec 21:20:02 ·Code 21:20:04 ↑ impossible? not quite... 21:20:08 !bfjoust coppro_stabbity (>-)*8[>[-]-] 21:20:09 Score for coppro_stabbity: -2 (maximum 11) 21:20:10 !bfjoust impomatic_shortsword (>++>--)*2(>)*6([-[+]]>)*20 21:20:14 hi ais523 21:20:17 hi AnMaster 21:20:26 Score for impomatic_shortsword: -2 (maximum 12) 21:21:00 GregorR-L: the bug in your code: the scores are stored from worst to best, and you eliminate array elements starting from element 10 21:21:52 split_by_group([], Consts, CRefs, Adds, Subs, Muls, Mods, Divs) -> 21:21:52 {Consts, CRefs, Adds, Subs, Muls, Mods, Divs}; 21:21:58 ? impossible? not quite... <-- you mean you know how? note i think he removed the 0 block possibility 21:21:59 hm, 8 arguments :) 21:22:24 oerjan: by having an incredibly good supercomputer 21:22:26 and bruteforcing it 21:22:33 completely and utterly infeasible? yes 21:22:35 impossible? hell no 21:22:42 -!- Taejo has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)). 21:23:03 What is SHAFuck? 21:23:08 !bfjoust coppro_stabbity2 (>-)*8[>[-][+]-] 21:23:10 !bfjoust impomatic_shortsword (>++>--)*2(>)*6([-[+]]>)*20 21:23:15 Score for coppro_stabbity2: -2 (maximum 11) 21:23:15 azumanga: http://www.esolangs.org/wiki/ShaFuck 21:23:21 ehird: you can bruteforce SHA-1? 21:23:22 Score for impomatic_shortsword: -2 (maximum 12) 21:23:25 oerjan: ... 21:23:29 You can bruteforce anything, oerjan. 21:23:33 Start with null string, then try \0 21:23:34 then \1 21:23:34 ... 21:23:36 \255 21:23:38 then \0\0 21:23:40 then \0\1 21:23:42 ... 21:23:44 \255\255 21:23:46 until you get the right SHA-1 sum 21:23:55 (as in, the one being the 20 operations you want) 21:24:51 you'd probably only need eight strings 21:24:53 hmm... interesting 21:24:55 one for each operation 21:24:58 then you could write any program 21:25:05 ais523: nope 21:25:07 read it again 21:25:07 the [+] one beats defend1, but draws with less_stupid 21:25:09 no comments allowed 21:25:10 although, wait 21:25:11 ehird: I know 21:25:12 still loses to shortsword :( 21:25:13 ais523: indeed! 21:25:14 just do 21:25:17 OP+-+-+- 21:25:17 but, you could get the other 19 to cancel each other out 21:25:17 etc 21:25:22 there's a parity problem 21:25:30 so I suspect you'd need to leave every second element at 0 21:25:37 so you can use junk loops to waste an odd number of characters 21:25:38 ais523: unfortunately, 19 is not even 21:25:41 ah 21:25:41 I see 21:26:00 ais523: still 21:26:07 or, you could simulate 7-bit wrapping 21:26:10 !bfjoust coppro_stabbity2 (>->+)*4[>[-][+]->[-][+]+] 21:26:11 Seeing as invalid characters in brainfuck are comments, I don't think shafuck would be too hard actually 21:26:12 !bfjoust impomatic_shortsword (>++>--)*2(>)*6([-[+]]>)*20 21:26:13 using [[ << >> -- ++ ]] 21:26:16 -!- Sgeo has joined. 21:26:16 and only have to deal with , and . 21:26:17 Score for coppro_stabbity2: 0 (maximum 11) 21:26:20 azumanga: comments are banned 21:26:24 Score for impomatic_shortsword: -2 (maximum 12) 21:26:30 ais523: you don't need -, due to wrapping 21:26:34 and you don't really need IO 21:26:39 Ah, didn't read carefully enough 21:26:43 so you just need +, >, < and [] 21:26:48 hmm... it seems GregorR took out the repo autocommit 21:27:17 I would think there is a good chance shaC would be almost as hard to write :) 21:27:25 Harder. 21:27:33 There are more distinct operations to bruteforce. 21:27:34 yes, you'd have to bruteforce for longer on average 21:27:46 !bfjoust coppro_stabbity3 (>->+)*4[>[-][+]->[-][+]+] 21:27:48 !bfjoust impomatic_shortsword (>++>--)*2(>)*6([-[+]]>)*20 21:27:54 Score for coppro_stabbity3: -3 (maximum 11) 21:28:01 Score for impomatic_shortsword: -3 (maximum 12) 21:28:04 !bfjoust suicide < 21:28:06 Score for suicide: -1 (maximum 13) 21:28:12 ais523: we discussed earlier the case of ShaFuck with 3 bit BF encoding and mostly concluded _that_ was close to feasible, but that the ascii with no comments allowed wasn't unless you could break SHA-1 entirely 21:28:13 But, there is a higher chance you will get a valid part.. 21:28:13 ais: :( 21:28:27 coppro: I want to see if suicide will end up staying in the hill 21:28:35 or if GregorR's fixed that bug yet 21:28:39 oh 21:28:40 because it's so incredibly unlikely you'll ever get a legal program 21:28:52 or program fragment 21:29:01 oerjan: but not impossible 21:29:06 wow it actually lost to MzX 21:29:16 hm 21:29:18 2> erlang:'+'(1,2). 21:29:18 3 21:29:23 totally undocumented it seems 21:29:27 I wonder what the probability a random string will contain */C/* for some character C, and not contain */ and /* anywhere else 21:29:33 well, suicide seems to be working 21:29:35 Because from those, you could stitch together C 21:29:37 it lost every single game 21:29:50 azumanga: you'd need a /* and a */ 21:29:53 also, comments count as whitespace 21:30:01 so you couldn't do any multi-character identifiers like that 21:30:20 !bf coppro_stabbity (>->+)*4[>[-][+]->[-][+]+] 21:30:28 Except that one could do it with preprocessor hackery. 21:30:39 Yes, you could look for */##/* 21:30:45 and you'd need a start and finish as well 21:30:45 Token combining is something the preprocessor could do. 21:30:47 :) 21:30:58 that's c+cpp, though 21:30:59 not c 21:31:01 But, if you generate random strings, you should find /*... after only 65000 tests or so 21:31:01 ooh, the report's now staying up while other things are calculated 21:31:02 cpp changes c+cpp into c 21:31:09 (it is however a required part of c compilation) 21:31:13 ehird: The preprocessor is part of C. 21:31:18 ais523: I wish GregorR-L would actually talk to us about this while doing it... 21:31:21 pikhq: see above 21:31:31 meh 21:31:33 What's the score mean? 21:32:10 Scoreification. 21:32:13 Goodness. 21:32:14 ehird: discussing ShaFuck without distinguishing between physical possibility and abstract mathematical possibility is meaningless 21:32:16 Winness. 21:32:21 Amazing awesomesauce. 21:32:25 coppro: in-channle, no idea 21:32:28 oerjan: it is physically possible! 21:32:33 it's just infeasible 21:32:35 ehird: ... Now you're being more pedantic than the average obsessive-compulsive. 21:32:41 pikhq: :-) 21:32:43 no, on the report 21:32:48 also, EgoBot hasn't got back to us about the coppro-stabbity program 21:32:53 the report appears to just be not updated right now 21:32:56 coppro: you wrote !bf not !bfjoust 21:32:57 oh crap 21:32:58 haha 21:33:00 yeah I see that 21:33:06 !bfjoust coppro_stabbity (>->+)*4[>[-][+]->[-][+]+] 21:33:08 oerjan: if you devoted the whole universe - or most of it, anyway - to the calculation of an ShaFuck program, and let it run for uncountable eons, then you could generate a program 21:33:08 Score for coppro_stabbity: -2 (maximum 11) 21:33:11 physically possible. 21:33:17 ok, the report is blanking now 21:33:55 -!- wendy has joined. 21:33:59 nope, suicide is still there 21:34:03 hi wendy 21:34:07 you from impomatic's blog/reddit too? 21:34:12 ↑ see, I'm psychic, I am 21:34:13 -!- wendy has quit (Client Quit). 21:34:21 someone doesn't like psychics. 21:34:25 winning the hill is getting easier and easier 21:34:31 I don't think it's true that SHA1 is a reversible function, so it's very faintly possible there isn't any string which hashes into valid brainfuck (extremely unlikely of course) 21:34:34 ehird: that is not certain, entropy does increase after all 21:34:41 !bfjoust ehird_totallynotshortsword (>++>--)*2(>)*6([-[+]]>)*20 21:34:46 Score for ehird_totallynotshortsword: -2 (maximum 11) 21:35:00 theory: we should all write programs which are very good, but lose to the programs there due to having subtle flaws 21:35:02 azumanga: I'd wager a bajillion that there are such a strings 21:35:08 ais523: haha 21:35:13 oerjan: work it out ;-) 21:35:20 first calculate the computational power of the universe 21:35:28 oerjan: i mean, on a universal scale, SHA-1 isn't that hard to braek 21:35:29 break 21:35:32 ehird: Yes, but if you want to define such a stupid language, you should make sure it's at least valid 21:35:32 2**50 complexity iirc? 21:35:36 there is recent research, oerjan 21:35:39 people are moving away from it 21:35:42 ais523: exactly how do [] factor in for timing? 21:35:44 and it's officially recommended to upgrade to SHA-2 etc 21:36:00 so clearly there is a general opinion breaking it is going to get easier, and if you put more or less the whole universe to the task... 21:36:02 pretty easy 21:36:09 coppro: they both take one cycle, and look at the value at the start of the cycle; [ jumps to after the ], ] jumps to after the [ 21:36:12 it's explained on the wiki 21:36:22 so [-] takes 2 cycles to loop? 21:36:31 coppro: yes 21:36:33 You'd probably be better of putting all the mathematicans on earth on the task, and see if they can shake out any more weaknesses 21:36:34 [-]-]-]-]-]-] 21:36:34 ok 21:36:42 in terms of which command runs on each cycle 21:37:20 azumanga: even so— the universe could probably crack SHA-1 quite quickly 21:37:28 it's not as if it's the most difficult hash function to break evarr 21:37:30 ehird: ok probably 21:39:01 Would be interesting to try to do shafuck with comments allowed, as that language is probably implementable (although would still take a while) 21:39:25 azumanga: that would be quite easy as i recall 21:39:28 I wonder if this is just a creative suicide 21:39:49 azumanga: er, shafuck is implemented 21:39:55 anyway, it'd be trivial 21:40:05 you just have to get one of the bf chars in, and avoid bf chars anywhere else in the string 21:40:10 ehird: I mean, it would be possible to actually write programs in 21:40:10 how did suicide end up above MzX in the rankings, I wonder? 21:40:12 it's the kind of thing you'd hit just hashing random strings 21:40:17 for like an hour 21:41:28 !bfjoust coppro_sleeper []+.-[>[-].+] 21:41:45 Score for coppro_sleeper: -7 (maximum 11) 21:42:12 azumanga: 248^19/256^20 ~= 0.0021368922769481, that's the probability of hitting something that has precisely the character you want first, and the rest comments 21:42:25 that's essentially trivial to hit 21:42:28 oerjan: yeah 21:42:43 It even more trivial than that, because it just has to be any character, without other ones 21:43:14 well, multiply that by 20 to put the desired character anywhere 21:43:15 hey, my program never loses! 21:43:35 coppro: against an antihill 21:43:46 azumanga: that's what a comment is 21:43:47 anthill? 21:43:55 coppro: the worst programs 21:44:12 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has joined. 21:44:27 heh 21:44:32 it's a nice hill, ais523 21:44:39 it probably takes more skill to beat the absolute worst programs 21:44:47 how can you beat something that kills itself in one cycle? 21:44:51 (beat for worseness, that is) 21:44:53 you can't 21:44:58 let's try it against the sword 21:45:02 !bfjoust coppro_sleeperagain []+.-[>[-].+] 21:45:04 !bfjoust impomatic_shortsword (>++>--)*2(>)*6([-[+]]>)*20 21:45:10 :D 21:45:13 Score for impomatic_shortsword: -3 (maximum 12) 21:45:28 Score for coppro_sleeperagain: -7 (maximum 11) 21:46:06 ais523: weren't the flags initialized to 128? so it would take more than one cycle to suicide 21:46:21 oerjan: it suicides by going off the end of the tape 21:46:24 rather than sinking its own flag 21:46:25 oh 21:47:15 ais523: another way to suicide: 21:47:16 ] 21:47:31 !bfjoust ehird_defying_the_conventions_of_antimoral_narrative_in_a_postmodernist_scientific_framework ] 21:47:32 Score for ehird_defying_the_conventions_of_antimoral_narrative_in_a_postmodernist_scientific_framework: -11 (maximum 11) 21:47:33 is going off actually death, or is it just you wait until your flag drops? 21:47:33 ehird: that's not a suicide, but an invalid program 21:47:37 so it draws with everything 21:47:39 coppro: going off is death 21:47:42 ais523: meh 21:47:43 that's how defence programs work 21:47:44 oh 21:47:44 i like my name, anyway 21:47:48 they try to trick the opponent into going off 21:48:02 ais523: oh, i thought they just tried to make them timeout 21:48:05 but that makes sense 21:48:06 *defense 21:48:08 timeout is draw 21:48:11 (that was correcting you) 21:48:15 coppro: 'xactly 21:48:34 basically, they exploit the two-cycles thing 21:48:42 to leave their flag at 0 for one cycle 21:48:50 so the opponent thinks they've sunk the flag, and continue with > 21:49:06 * coppro tries to work out a real sleeper, which was his intent 21:49:27 coppro: ais523_defence5 is a sleeper 21:49:59 although it tries to detect if the opponent is a sleeper too 21:50:07 and uses a counter-sleeper strategy in that case 21:54:58 * oerjan is almost tempted to register on reddit to get rid of the crap norwegian subreddits they recently added to my menu 21:55:30 !bfjoust coppro_realsleep ([{>+[>[-]]<}]+.-)*15[>[-]+] 21:55:31 Score for coppro_realsleep: -10 (maximum 11) 21:56:11 hmm 21:56:23 eh, let's wait for Gregor to fix things 21:56:29 then go play corewar 21:56:52 corewar, or BF joust? 21:57:47 dammit they're all empty or just spam, except no whose top article is a month old 21:58:30 oerjan: :D 21:58:39 oerjan: Register and participate in pun threads. 21:58:48 Except always make the pun mathematics-related. 21:58:53 No matter what the actual topic of the thread. 21:58:53 well that _is_ somewhat tempting 21:58:58 corewar! 21:59:02 Tenuous links give extra points. 21:59:31 except the mathematical part 21:59:44 unless it really fits, of course 22:02:18 dammit changing the language to english works for everything except that menu 22:03:04 hm I think I'm writing a simple CAS here... 22:03:12 oh wait there's a checkbox - it worked! 22:03:15 :( 22:03:19 (very simple one) 22:03:34 * oerjan now can happily press technology without using the MORE link again 22:03:41 what is the best way to represent a polynom in a computer, to be able to simplify it 22:03:42 Since you people seem to be present here right now; [in case there are fungot-related issues or whatever] if someone happens to wonder why I don't seem to be here; I'll be away from the internets (silly phone doesn't do wifi, roaming-gprs is overly expensive, don't want to carry any unnecessary stuff) vacationing in Italy for 2008-05-24 -> 2008-06-04. 22:03:42 fizzie: programmers loose their right to arm bears 22:04:02 currently I represet it as a tree of operations. 22:04:35 (and references and constants and so on) 22:04:35 (Now some sleep, wake-up time in order to catch the plane is in four hours.) 22:04:52 * AnMaster thinks either oerjan or ais523 should know more about this. 22:05:11 AnMaster: polynomials are often represented as a list of coefficients 22:06:12 hm ok 22:06:27 AnMaster: you might want to keep associative operations such as addition and multiplication with lists at their level 22:06:44 and possibly sort the lists 22:06:58 oerjan, I want to constant fold as much as possible too 22:07:14 like 0*p[0] + 2 => 2 22:07:23 AnMaster: well you would traverse the lists for the parts that are constants 22:08:07 AnMaster: it's just that with (a+b)+(c+d), mathematically a,b,c and d are mostly at the same level 22:08:19 oerjan, yes 22:08:31 also, you may want to treat subtraction as addition of a negative, for related reasons 22:09:09 you can't represent 5*(a + 4) + 9 * (a + (4 * c)) as a polynom right? 22:09:20 and division as multiplication by ... hm, you could actually use a standard quotient of products thing 22:09:23 oerjan, also yes indeed 22:09:44 AnMaster: well after rearranging, of course you can 22:09:55 err right 22:10:09 oerjan, and that is probably what my question is really about 22:10:33 given such an equation, how would you in a computer program turn it into a simplified polynom form 22:10:50 equation isn't right word is it? 22:11:08 because it has only one side 22:11:11 term? after using distributive law enough you should have a sum of products 22:11:18 expression maybe 22:11:22 if that is the English term for it 22:11:23 ah 22:12:30 on the other hand, using the distributive law where it _doesn't_ help can be expensive 22:12:38 such as when factorizing polynomials 22:12:58 because distributivity is not easily reversible 22:13:26 but grouping associative operations is harmless in comparison 22:15:31 hm 22:15:35 -!- kar8nga has quit (Remote closed the connection). 22:26:33 * AnMaster now wonders how to best code the distributive law in software... 22:27:33 AnMaster: you have powerful pattern matching, don't you? 22:27:36 you could just pattern-match it 22:27:48 ais523, true hm... 22:32:55 * oerjan notes that this is essentially sequence in the [] monad *ducks* 22:33:48 mind you that is assuming it's a sum of a list whose elements are each products of a list 22:34:06 er the other way around 22:34:10 how do you represent division, in general... 22:34:14 (in polynoms) 22:34:22 you don't 22:34:24 multiply by inverse would work I guess 22:34:42 (if it can be constant folded that is) 22:34:43 if you have division it's not a polynom any longer >:) 22:34:50 oerjan, yeah sucks. 22:35:16 however you frequently simplify it to a single division of two polynoms 22:35:42 maybe better would be to simplify general expressions... hm 22:36:06 (possibly turning it into polynoms, if it is possible) 22:37:13 there are of course an infinite number of additional rules to use as you add an infinite number of additional functions... 22:38:54 oerjan, hm? You mean like handle sqrt(), sin(), cos() and so on? Not needed here. Just need to handle + - * / mod 22:39:01 mod? 22:39:20 mod is integer stuff 22:39:25 -!- inurinternet has joined. 22:39:29 oerjan, and I'm working on known integers 22:39:46 so, correction: s/\//div/ 22:39:48 if you do integer stuff you need to be much more careful with / 22:39:52 yep 22:39:55 it is integer division 22:39:56 too 22:40:38 22:03 fizzie: Since you people seem to be present here right now; [in case there are fungot-related issues or whatever] if someone happens to wonder why I don't seem to be here; I'll be away from the internets (silly phone doesn't do wifi, roaming-gprs is overly expensive, don't want to carry any unnecessary stuff) vacationing in Italy for 2008-05-24 -> 2008-06-04. ← why would you ever leave finland 22:40:39 ehird: you could read from files *shrugs*... but it does matter in that signed integer overflow is undefined behaviour, instead of 22:40:45 oerjan, and yes I need to take care of when it isn't divisable. 22:41:15 hm ouch 22:42:52 if this is BF then your mods are probably all by 256 and you may want to be doing all the calculation in (mod 256) arithmetic 22:43:02 which is easy in C, just use unsigned char 22:43:15 and is relatively easy in many other languages 22:46:51 / still is hairy though. modular inverse generally exists when the divisor is odd, otherwise it gets even hairier 22:47:02 (for 256) 22:47:31 -!- zzo38 has joined. 22:48:27 Even User:Patashu has ask if I was submit interpreter to golf.shinh.org and I try, but I can't! 22:49:06 * oerjan guesses interpreters are added on a case by case basis? 22:49:36 But they won't even answer it. 22:50:22 well it _is_ weekend 22:51:40 You look at "WHOIS shinh shinh" they are idle for 132416 second (1.5 days approx) Can you try to send message later please? Because I can't. 22:51:49 btw you are not registered. are you aware that unregistered users generally cannot send private messages on freenode? 22:52:21 indeed 22:52:29 zzo38: well, shinh might just be doing other things... 22:52:33 It seens to work I sent to "oerjan" the CTRL+A PING and reply. 22:52:38 That's different 22:52:42 ctcp != other private messages 22:52:48 zzo38: Say "hi" to me in /msg 22:52:53 is that so? 22:52:54 Then tell me when you have in here 22:53:00 I'll tell you if I've got it 22:53:01 ehird: How? 22:53:06 zzo38: PRIVMSG ehird :hi 22:53:20 shinh's idling does fit a weekend break pretty well, doesn't it 22:53:31 I can send messages to PocketMonsterIRC on Freenode and also multiple widnows I have connected is that because of the same address or something like that? 22:53:43 hmm 22:53:46 it worked your message to me 22:53:52 It send the message OK? 22:53:57 zzo38: there's a flag people can set whether they want to accept unregistered pms or not 22:54:02 zzo38: yes, although see oerjan 22:54:08 shinh may have set the flag, or may just be busy doing other things, etc 22:54:14 zzo38: he may have an email address 22:54:31 The help on this IRC won't list any user flags and modes only the list of commands. 22:54:52 zzo38: it's in the connect splurge 22:54:54 before the motf 22:54:55 motd 22:54:59 I even tried on the channel before and still got no reply on the corresponding channel either 22:55:22 Is there a way to repeat the connect text before the MOTD 22:55:28 zzo38: nope 22:55:37 and /shrug, people are just busy, doing other things, can't help, etc 22:56:12 I should just reconnect in other window to read it 22:56:28 zzo38: btw there is a MemoServ, although i've never used it, i don't know if it works when people are just idle and not logged off 22:56:37 indeed 22:56:46 only when they log in, I think 22:56:55 -!- azumanga has quit. 22:57:58 I didn't see a list of the user-modes 22:58:14 How can MemoServ function be activated 22:58:20 PRIVMSG MemoServ :HELP 22:58:27 zzo38: i saw about this flag in the freenode faq on freenode.org, i think 22:58:39 zzo38: 22:58:40 :pratchett.freenode.net 004 aaaaaaaaaaa pratchett.freenode.net hyperion-1.0.2b aAbBcCdDeEfFGhHiIjkKlLmMnNopPQrRsStTuUvVwWxXyYzZ01234569*@ bcdefFhiIklmnoPqstv 22:58:42 :pratchett.freenode.net 005 aaaaaaaaaaa IRCD=dancer CAPAB CHANTYPES=# EXCEPTS INVEX CHANMODES=bdeIq,k,lfJD,cgijLmnPQrRstz CHANLIMIT=#:20 PREFIX=(ov)@+ MAXLIST=bdeI:50 MODES=4 STATUSMSG=@ KNOCK NICKLEN=16 :are supported by this server 22:58:46 :pratchett.freenode.net 005 aaaaaaaaaaa SAFELIST CASEMAPPING=ascii CHANNELLEN=30 TOPICLEN=450 KICKLEN=450 KEYLEN=23 USERLEN=10 HOSTLEN=63 SILENCE=50 :are supported by this server 22:58:47 O thanks that helps. 22:58:49 that contains the modes ... somewhere 22:59:22 i vaguely recall it's that long alphabet list 22:59:43 or wait there's also the CHANMODES list 22:59:48 * oerjan is not sure 23:00:29 lambdabot was nice, it told about messages when you talked again 23:00:33 I can't send by MemoServ because I am not log in 23:00:42 but of course it only works for the channels it's in 23:00:50 zzo38: oh 23:01:21 Can someone else try to send the message to them (using any method of communication) about this FlogScript one day later on when you think it is a good time to do so? 23:01:24 zzo38: why not log in? 23:01:27 zzo38: well that sort of makes sense, since otherwise it would be a way around the flag (which is mostly antispam measure, i think) 23:01:39 Because I can't log in. 23:01:43 zzo38: why not? 23:01:53 PRIVMSG NickServ :REGISTER insertapasswordhere 23:01:55 then in future 23:02:00 PRIVMSG NickServ :IDENTIFY insertthepasswordhere 23:02:06 or when you connect 23:02:08 PASS insertthepasswordhere 23:02:09 I have the user and nick command, I try help but they don't list the command of login do I need a password also 23:02:15 See above 23:02:20 zzo38: you log in by sending a private message to NickSer 23:02:22 *NickServ 23:02:27 ais523: or PASS on login 23:02:37 yes, or by using PASS before USER and NICK on login 23:02:59 Do I need to give the password at both the connection and NickServ? Maybe I can try to get help of NickServ 23:03:00 zzo38: but you need to register with NickServ before the PASS will work later 23:03:17 zzo38: one or the other 23:03:21 zzo38: no just one once you have it up and running 23:03:24 O, there's the help message 23:03:29 but you need to create your account with NickServ, you can't create an account during connection 23:04:26 What necessary information is there to know before creating the account? Does it expire sometimes, or anything else that would be relevant to know 23:04:40 zzo38: it expires after 60 days unused 23:04:48 iirc 23:04:52 oerjan: not quite 23:05:02 So I would need to register again? Do I need e-mail to register 23:05:05 on Freenode, it expires if it's unused for 60 days, and someone requests it to be expired 23:05:13 well that too 23:05:17 and you don't need an email to register here, or at least didn't when I registered 23:05:33 O, so only if someone requests it after 60 days. 23:05:34 my nick was someone else's expired nick when i joined 23:05:53 Now, how to compile rawirc in Windows so that it can use color-codes and stuff like that (but make it compatible with Linux also)? 23:06:13 zzo38: you can register you email to get sent a new password if you forget it though, iirc 23:06:16 *your 23:07:14 I want to make rawirc run on Windows and including display asterisks if you type in the PASS command, I don't want it to display my password on the screen 23:07:42 I would use rawirc if I can compile it. On Linux it would be easy to compile but I don't currently have Linux 23:08:11 * oerjan knows nothing about rawirc 23:09:34 oerjan: Gregor wrote it. 23:09:40 -!- KingOfKarlsruhe has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:09:43 zzo38: you'd have to modify it 23:09:46 instead of justcompiling it 23:09:49 rawirc is a simple C program with escape codes for colors. But Windows doesn't have escape codes for colors, and anyways it is a bit harder to compile a C program on Windows because you have to check for correct library and stuff like that. Or, will it compile correctly on Cygwin? I have Cygwin also. 23:09:54 It's basically telnet with IRC highlighting and a couple of shortcuts for common IRC commands. 23:10:04 ehird, I was close to googling that reference before remembering where I saw it from 23:10:05 zzo38: Windows can handle VT-100 escape codes in its terminal 23:10:12 Oh, rawirc highlights? 23:10:13 zzo38: I'd imagine it'd work right in Cygwin. 23:10:32 ehird: That's half the point. 23:10:44 If I just go to Cygwin and use the gcc command will it work, or does it need to be indicated the library to link with? 23:10:54 pikhq: Does rawirc automatically talk to the current channel if your command is inapplicable? That's basically the only thing I need in a client :P 23:10:57 zzo38: No libraries are used. 23:10:58 zzo38: -levent 23:11:04 oh. 23:11:05 ehird: No. 23:11:07 okay then :P 23:11:11 gcc rawirc.c -levent -o rawirc 23:11:34 OK thanks for telling me what parameters it need 23:11:51 It's in the comment block at the start. 23:12:30 ehird: No it doesn't talk to current channel automatically. IFMUD does do that and I really don't like that feature of IFMUD. In IFMUD a " mark indicates saying text so I don't want to repeat the command that is wrong to public 23:12:56 Yeah, but it's irritating having to type PRIVMSG #esoteric : all the time. 23:13:16 -!- cscotta has joined. 23:13:20 ehird: I think rawirc even currently push CTRL+P for the macro PRIVMSG so that you don't have to type every time 23:13:34 Ctrl-P #esoteric :is still pretty bad 23:13:35 cscotta: Hi. 23:13:40 You new? from reddit? impomatic's blog? 23:13:42 I know in the Windows command window it accepts F2 to repeat up to and not including the indicated character (a colon in this case). 23:13:49 Wild guess that. 23:13:56 it worked your message to me <-- there is a mode for it. +E iirc 23:14:06 AnMaster: as oerjan said before and after 23:14:19 ah 23:14:20 Still, I will improve rawirc with the ability to write more macros in the configuration file, so that you can make macro for more things. 23:14:30 ehird: Hi - yep, saw it on the blog via proggit. Figured I'd drop in to check out the madness ;-). 23:14:52 cscotta: Currently, it's incredibly broken, in that it retains the 10 _worst_ programs, and the score display is all wrong 23:14:59 It'd be fixed, except GregorR-L seems to be sleeping or something. 23:15:05 haha - nice touch! 23:15:15 However, if you want to compete with the worst programs, feel free. !bfjoust program code, and http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/report.txt 23:15:40 In netcat I just type F2 colon colon to get the writing "PRIVMSG #esoteric :" repeated for me if that is the last command, and if it isn't I will use arrow keys to select one 23:15:48 if this is BF then your mods are probably all by 256 and you may want to be doing all the calculation in (mod 256) arithmetic <-- yep. And yes division and mod are hairy. I don't even know how to detect loops that do that yet. I just want to be prepared for when I do. esotope-bfc's Expr class can theoretically handle / and mod too, but last I looked such expressions were never generated iirc 23:15:55 ehird: thanks. working on another project at the moment, but i'll check it out. 23:16:00 cscotta: :) 23:16:17 But only windows netcat. On Linux it is necessary to use readline library 23:16:33 And I'm not even sure what the special key-codes are for readline library anyways. 23:16:38 Arrow keys. 23:16:41 And stuff. 23:16:47 Ctrl-A for start of line, Ctrl-E for end. 23:16:50 Up goes up in history, down down. 23:16:54 Left and right go left and right. 23:17:09 Can it do like F2 in Windows does? I'm just curious 23:17:30 It's exactly what F2 does on Windows, I think. ais523 might know. 23:17:55 I don't know what F2 does in Windows 23:17:57 in particular 23:18:02 it tends to differ from program to program 23:18:14 and I don't know what it does in Windows terminal 23:18:30 cscotta: also, [[e:BF Joust]] is the rules 23:18:33 -!- psygnisfive has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)). 23:18:50 err, http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust 23:19:00 -!- ais523 has set topic: We Conjure the Spirits of the Computer with our Spells | You mean we've been on reddit /twice/ now? | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D. 23:19:09 Three times, maybe. 23:19:17 Also, impomatic was on reddit. 23:19:19 We were indirect. 23:19:20 -!- impomatic has joined. 23:19:27 Hi :-) 23:19:37 hi impomatic 23:19:38 ah the villain appears 23:19:49 the hill's been "fixed" to be finite 23:19:49 ais523: http://www.reddit.com/domain/esolangs.org 23:19:54 5 at least 23:19:58 plus 1, for impomatic's 23:19:58 also 23:19:59 I've told him 23:20:01 ehird: #esoteric the channel, I mean 23:20:02 in /msg 23:20:07 and I told him on his blog 23:20:53 :-) 23:21:09 no I didn't 23:21:17 I tried, but then I realised I could never get blogspot to work 23:21:35 heh, one of those submissions was me 23:21:39 ais523: enable JS 23:21:44 http://www.reddit.com/r/esolangs/ ← terribly popular 23:21:47 ais523, ehird more: http://www.reddit.com/domain/esoteric.voxelperfect.net 23:21:57 AnMaster: true 'nuf 23:21:58 Oh? It works in most browsers. Should even allow anonymous replies 23:22:09 impomatic: ais523 is probably using w3m or lynx or something 23:22:16 or some firefox extension like NoHTML or something 23:22:35 doesn't work in Firefox (even messing with NoScript to allow things) or Epiphany default install 23:22:59 er, does for me 23:23:02 you mean doesn't work on your firefox 23:23:13 Finite is good :-) At least the rubbish programs will get pushed off instead of sitting there forever 23:23:23 impomatic: the good programs, you mean 23:23:26 due to the brokenosity 23:23:29 well, atm the good programs are getting pushed off 23:23:38 -!- psygnisfive has joined. 23:24:30 Like, even, removing first line of input with FlogScript program )(; 23:24:43 And to duplicate each line: ".P, 23:24:53 ais523: http://www.rottytooth.com/velatotracks/print_h_5.mid ← sounds even nicer than the forte hello world 23:24:56 I've got copies of all the programs from yesterday 23:25:12 Back later 23:25:40 ehird: the forte one is shorter, I think 23:25:46 i don't care 23:25:48 this one is prettier 23:25:52 it's a different style 23:25:54 I like them both 23:25:56 One day I will use Linux instead. But not today. However I don't like the one that already exist so I will write my own Linux distribution and window manager and stuff like that. 23:26:08 zzo38: have fun with that 23:26:16 But not today. 23:26:35 I even wrote my own web-browser software so probably I can write a window-manager also 23:26:52 is modifying an existing browser a bit really making a web browser from scratch? 23:26:56 It helps to start using Linux so you have reason to write a window manager. 23:26:59 but the hard part is the whole distribution thing 23:27:03 will you write your own package manager too? 23:27:08 and a complete set of packages? 23:27:10 -!- Gracenotes has joined. 23:27:11 and a build farm? 23:27:14 O, and I should also write the widget-set, it could be based on the original Xaw widget set, but you can't tell the difference very easily each widget so I can use colors for tell the difference 23:27:25 What's a build farm 23:27:26 ehird: A package manager isn't hard to do. 23:27:31 Granted, a *good* one is damned hard... 23:27:44 zzo38: by making your own widget set, you have just made every other application in the world not fit in with the widget set. 23:27:49 zzo38: You are reinventing the wheel poorly. 23:27:58 zzo38: i propose that you invent your own computer and electronics too 23:28:03 also, fundamental physics 23:28:04 actually, firefox will try to use native widgets, I think 23:28:07 even for icons, etc 23:28:15 ais523: i doubt it'll do that if he makes up his own widget set. 23:28:22 it could be fun if it did, though 23:28:35 my guess is it'll try, but not necessarily succeed 23:28:43 ais523: it has a predefined set of widget sets 23:28:44 ais523: That's because Firefox has Cocoa, GTK+, and Win32 widget backends for XUL. 23:28:46 not any heuristics or anything 23:28:59 (Qt widgets are a work in progress) 23:29:32 And my own Linux will have no icons. We don't need any icons. And scroll-bar can be left-mouse-button to up/left, right-mouse-button right/down, middle to select the exact position. And the window decoration needs only one thing, a title bar with no icons or buttons. You can different click, single or double and keyboard modifier keys to change function. Also use LOGO+other keys for commands in the window manager 23:29:53 zzo38: Ohhhkay have fun with that I'll see you in a few years. 23:30:01 zzo38: What benefit do you get out of using Linux? 23:30:15 pikhq: Presumably he can't micromanage Windows. 23:30:16 LOGO in the window manager? 23:30:20 You're writing everything but Linux, GCC, Gas, make, autoconf, autotools, and coreutils. 23:30:21 ais523: he means windows logo key 23:30:25 ah 23:30:26 And X. 23:30:29 I like my interpretation better 23:30:39 zzo38: X is the thing that manages windows and drives the display and graphics card 23:30:42 ... At which point, why even keep X? 23:30:42 you want to rewrite that too, right? 23:30:46 It sucks. 23:30:56 :o 23:31:04 Linux is much better than Windows and Linux is even FOSS also! But I don't like the modern widget-sets and modern window-managers and stuff so therefore I have to write my own. But I can make improvement of it, like color to indicate what type of widget it is, and so on. 23:31:27 By LOGO I mean the LOGO key (also called the WINDOWS key or the WIN key) 23:31:39 zzo38: it's called "super" on Linux 23:31:45 Everything is still using X so therefore X should still be used 23:32:04 zzo38: everything's using non-zzo38-widgets 23:32:10 so therefore they should be used instead too 23:32:21 everything's also using non-zzo38 window managers, too 23:32:29 And the CONTEXT key (also called the APPLICATION key by Microsoft documentation, but I call it the CONTEXT key) called something else in Linux? 23:32:37 window manager doesn't normally matter for compatibility, though 23:32:40 ... context key? 23:32:42 unless it tries to do compositing 23:32:43 WUT 23:32:49 zzo38: That's the menu key. 23:32:54 oh. 23:32:55 ehird: it's the one with a symbol looking like a mouse pointing at a menu 23:32:59 how on earth is that a "context" ke 23:32:59 y 23:33:06 zzo38: I don't know what it's called 23:33:06 zzo38, you can't be serious 23:33:09 ehird: Pulls up the context menu. 23:33:09 ehird: "context menu key" 23:33:12 AnMaster: zzo38 is always serious :-) 23:33:25 But if I can change the keyboard I would just write the words LOGO and CONTEXT on those keys instead of having pictures which may be trademarked or copyrighted 23:33:33 haha 23:33:34 a key saying logo 23:33:38 to represent a logo being on it 23:33:40 without a logo 23:33:42 brillant 23:33:53 ehird: deliberate misspelling? 23:34:04 zzo38: With all the effort this will involve, why bother writing it on Linux? 23:34:05 ehird, btw, I know someone more extreme than me: 23:34:05 Write it on Plan 9. 23:34:05 It needs a good DE. 23:34:05 ;) 23:34:07 ais523: Paula Bean 23:34:13 pikhq: Hey, rio is perfect. 23:34:16 ehird, AnMaster, everything I need a window manager to do is spawn me a terminal or two AnMaster, everything can be launched from a terminal and that also doesn't require some cryptic menus or some such moving *shudder* mouse 23:34:18 Or near perfect, at least. 23:34:19 yes, I know what the typo means, but it's like the AGAINT thing 23:34:23 ehird: As a window manager, sure. 23:34:29 if a typo has its own meaning, but is plausible, how do you know if someone meant to make it? 23:34:30 AnMaster: that's the thoughtprocess behind ratpoison. 23:34:41 ehird, Zaba uses dwm though 23:34:44 AnMaster: mouse-haters should be shot. by mice 23:34:49 With different window-manager and widgets and stuff, other software on Linux and with X can still work OK. But if it is not X then it will stop working. 23:34:50 mice with guns 23:35:03 ais523: you can't. I vote AGAINT your thought process 23:35:08 zzo38: why don't you port Cygwin to Linux? 23:35:17 that way you can emulate X, for X-dependent programs 23:35:17 ais523: ... 23:35:22 The universe just exploded. 23:35:27 I don' 23:35:34 ehird: after all, WINE's been ported to Windows... 23:35:47 zzo38: Y'know, the alternative graphics layers implement X. 23:35:47 There is no point to port Cygwin to Linux, just recompile the program on Linux and it should work 23:35:59 What are "alternative graphics layers" 23:36:08 Y Windows, DirectFB. 23:36:11 ehird, also he is always concerned about having un-needed apps installed. Trying to remove everything un-needed. All the time. (Personally I only clean up no longer used programs and such when disk space starts getting low... about twice / year) 23:36:29 AnMaster: sounds like a person obsessed with administrivia 23:36:43 ehird, definitely. 23:37:00 AnMaster: just don't let him know about this place and I'll be just fine 23:37:04 Sounds like a person that just needs to shut up and use Gentoo. 23:37:16 pikhq, he *does* use Gentoo 23:37:23 yeah Ic ould have guessed that 23:37:26 has about 100 packages in world. 23:37:28 he's exactly the type to use gentoo 23:37:30 ... 23:37:31 Emphasis on the "shut up" bit. 23:37:33 100 packages? 23:37:39 That's a really minimal Debian server install. 23:37:45 ehird: Not including dependencies. 23:37:51 you sure, pikhq? 23:37:57 yes 23:38:00 kay 23:38:22 wow, people actually use directfb 23:38:37 ehird, on gentoo the world file is a list of packages you installed explicitly. 23:38:37 I seem to have 363 packages in world. 23:38:48 # wc -l /var/lib/portage/world 23:38:48 507 /var/lib/portage/world 23:38:50 is what I have 23:38:55 Porting WINE to Windows is a bit useful because some of the stuff is used in ReactOS also 23:39:15 zzo38: not just that, some windows programs work better in WINE than in Windows 23:39:38 I've used mingw on os x befor 23:39:38 e 23:39:39 Zaba, what about looking at images. AnMaster, usually, fbi from fbida, but when in X, feh browsing the web? AnMaster, mostly w3m, but when in X, firefox 23:39:41 :D 23:39:42 ais523: Yes, sometimes it actually does. And I don't know why 23:39:46 and mingw is a port of gcc to windows 23:39:48 that's rare though 23:39:53 I used it to compile a program for a windows user 23:39:55 yes, he doesn't normally use X even 23:40:01 AnMaster: agh 23:40:04 AnMaster: can I stab him? 23:40:14 ehird: I encourage it. 23:40:35 pikhq: thank you for your support. can I have a stabbing device? 23:40:48 if you like pointless ports, I'll point out that mingw's been ported to cygwin 23:41:02 * pikhq tosses ehird a comprehensive documentation on C++ and a knife 23:41:03 ehird, he is actually quite nice to talk with when he doesn't talk about such things. Like when he talks about C programming or other stuff instead. 23:41:13 The C++ documentation is for optional bludgeoning after you stab. 23:41:21 pikhq: thank you 23:41:21 ehird, I will tell him about dvtm next time I see him! 23:41:31 AnMaster: i can imagine his attitude to c programming 23:41:36 remove everything but inline assembly! 23:41:41 that's all I need a c compiler to do 23:41:42 ehird, the opposite 23:41:43 no cryptic manuals 23:41:46 Must make IOCCC seem sane. 23:41:47 or *shudder* command line options 23:41:52 ehird, portable, clean code. Hates macros. 23:42:06 AnMaster: Ooh boy. Please, sir, point me in his direction. 23:42:10 AnMaster: The one is damned hard to do without the other. 23:42:12 I am absolutely not not not not going to stab him. 23:42:49 At bare minimum, you need macros to get dynamic libraries to work with both Win32 and !Win32. 23:43:00 pikhq, with macros I meant #define foo(...), that is function like macros 23:43:05 pikhq: Win32 doesn't count as an operating system!!11111111111 23:43:11 A PROGRAM IS PORTABLE IF IT WORKS ON BSD 4.3 23:43:13 as opposed to very trivial #include/#ifdef 23:43:14 for pdp-11 23:43:14 ehird: It's an API. 23:43:21 the only True OS. 23:43:30 ehird, I think he uses FreeBSD 7.x on his other computer 23:43:41 AnMaster: Then he has massive ifdefs at every function declaration? 23:43:46 ehird, that other computer being a headless mac mini acting as a server! 23:43:56 (insane yes) 23:43:59 ... 23:44:01 mac mini? 23:44:02 pikhq, don't think so 23:44:04 I can't imagine him buying a mac. 23:44:09 I really can't. 23:44:13 -!- calamari has joined. 23:44:20 ehird, he lives in Russia. Sometimes stuff is hard to get hold of there. 23:44:25 AnMaster: otoh, linus torvalds' wife owns a mac mini 23:44:27 (running linux) 23:44:28 So I guess he took what he found. 23:44:28 AnMaster: Then it's not very portable. 23:44:29 read it on his blahg 23:44:42 AnMaster: they make good servers too 23:44:43 pikhq, portable == C89 for him probably. 23:44:50 -!- zzo38 has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)). 23:44:51 ehird, who? Apple? Sure 23:44:54 AnMaster: Then it doesn't work on Windows. 23:44:54 very low power consumption, very low noise, very small, etc 23:44:56 AnMaster: no, i mean 23:44:58 ehird, but I remember he said it was second hand 23:44:58 mac minis make good servers 23:45:27 C on Windows has somewhat screwy semantics for dynamic libraries. ;) 23:45:50 [...]Windows[...]has[...]screwy semantics[...] 23:46:00 ehird: That too. 23:46:53 AnMaster: So, how *does* he handle declspec? 23:47:04 pikhq, he doesn't make libraries iirc 23:47:15 lol 23:47:16 C[...]has[...]screwy semantics 23:47:18 that's a nice way to solve the problem 23:47:19 or rather, not dynamic ones 23:47:26 by nice i mean reeeeeeeeetarded 23:47:30 AnMaster: So how does he handle declspec(import)? 23:47:56 Does he not use dynamic libraries, either? 23:48:10 AnMaster: do you know why linux framebuffer bootup has two logos? 23:48:11 ehird, as in, he hasn't had any reason to so far iirc... He is about 4 years older than you iirc 23:48:12 instead of just one 23:48:24 ehird, err... I haven't seen logo in fb for ages 23:48:26 hm 17, yeah I'd guess 23:48:30 maybe I disabled it 23:48:34 ehird, ~17 yes 23:48:35 ehird: That means you have two processors. 23:48:37 maybe 18 23:48:37 very 17 sort of mode of talking 23:48:39 pikhq: oh, does it? 23:48:41 heh 23:48:47 oooh 23:48:48 It shows a penguin for each processor. 23:48:53 that explains it 23:48:53 a tuz, actually. 23:48:56 tazmanian devil 23:48:58 pikhq, so I have 0 processors? 23:49:01 for the new rc :P 23:49:06 pikhq: what if you have 8 processors (= hyperthreading) 23:49:07 Oh, you have that version. 23:49:09 does it go off the screen :D 23:49:12 pikhq, or I just disabled fb logo in kernel maybe... 23:49:15 and no, I don't have any version 23:49:16 ehird: It might. 23:49:33 ehird, it might cover the entire output? :D 23:49:36 ehird: Tuz is for only one version. ;) 23:49:45 tuz is cuter than tux. 23:50:09 ehird: Now that you brought that up, I want to see the bootup process for a 32-core system. 23:50:14 :p 23:50:42 yep, one logo per processor 23:50:44 going home, anyway 23:50:45 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:50:45 :P 23:50:55 -!- cscotta has quit. 23:52:17 -!- impomatic has left (?). 23:53:39 i want to go back to like the 90s 23:53:54 and get one of the fledgling distributed OS's— plan9, say 23:54:07 -!- FireFly has quit ("Later"). 23:54:08 and get like five 386s (one needs to have at least 16MB of ram!) 23:54:12 and set it up with ethernet 23:54:40 -!- BeholdMyGlory has quit (Remote closed the connection). 23:57:08 * pikhq has discovered the screwiest C-related language. 23:57:11 Objective-C++. 23:57:31 pikhq: It's designed for interfacing C++ code w/ obj-c 23:57:36 like using c++ libraries in a mac app 23:57:36 ehird: Yes. 23:57:47 It's still hilariously screwy. 23:59:02 -!- calamari has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)).