00:00:13 <nescience> !bfjoust simpletest (>[-][-][-][-][-])*29
00:00:15 <EgoBot> Score for nescience_simpletest: 28.5
00:00:16 <AnMaster> better profile to make sure you need it
00:00:34 <nescience> ha, somewhere in that mess playing the odds got knocked off
00:00:43 <nescience> guess it eventually had enough entries that got new rolls
00:00:49 <ais523> nescience: the defend6 and up programs beat that by locking them in a [-] loop while grabbing the flags
00:01:21 <nescience> i was considering the same thing, but i thought i had time once you "left"
00:01:33 <AnMaster> ais523, so it does something like [>----<+] ?
00:01:48 <ehird> ugh, my main loop is getting ugly
00:02:00 <ais523> AnMaster: a bit like that
00:02:05 <AnMaster> ehird, it is C. What do you expect?
00:02:11 <ais523> it does +*128 every 256 steos
00:02:11 <ehird> still, really ugly.
00:02:12 <nescience> i assume that they don't leave more than ~250 cycles between when they leave their flag, but really it's a timing thing
00:02:14 <ehird> eh, I can refactor it later
00:02:19 <ehird> important thing is that it works, and works fast
00:02:23 <ais523> to cancel out [-] (directly) or [+] (by shunting it past 0 too fast)
00:02:39 <AnMaster> in some cases code duplication DOES speed up however
00:02:47 <ehird> for (current_warrior = WARRIOR_A; current_warrior <= WARRIOR_B; current_warrior++) {
00:02:52 <nescience> right, but still if it doesn't rest on 0 the first time it should come around to it again i thought
00:02:58 <nescience> seemed like there would be time for it
00:03:12 <AnMaster> in cfunge the code for "is vector cardinal" had to be duplicated from vector.c into funge-space.c
00:03:24 <nescience> !bfjoust simpletest (>[[++++++++]])*29
00:03:26 <EgoBot> Score for nescience_simpletest: 28.5
00:03:31 <ais523> AnMaster: why not let the compiler do unrolling?
00:03:45 <AnMaster> ais523, um. It didn't handle inlining between files well
00:04:04 <AnMaster> ais523, and doing a "combine + whole program optimise" is non-trivial
00:04:36 <AnMaster> so you end up with a manual batch file
00:07:13 <nooga> !bfjoust wot (>)*1
00:07:40 <ais523> nooga: what a pointless program...
00:07:50 <Patashu> it doesn't even kill itself
00:08:04 <nooga> tried to figure out how it works
00:08:15 <pikhq> AnMaster: Pass all of the files to GCC at the same time.
00:08:19 <nooga> that new toy - bfjoust
00:08:28 <AnMaster> pikhq, gcc -combine -fwhole-program
00:08:29 <Patashu> why don't you go read about it then? :)
00:08:34 <GregorR-L> With bfjoust slox'd, it takes for freaking ever :P
00:08:42 <nooga> Patashu: like where?
00:08:44 <AnMaster> pikhq, doesn't help for the cmake build system
00:09:04 <Patashu> http://esoteric.voxelperfect.net/wiki/BF_Joust
00:09:13 <Patashu> and http://retrocode.blogspot.com/2009/05/bf-joust-king-of-hill.html
00:09:20 <AnMaster> pikhq, it is better than autotools
00:09:31 <AnMaster> and a nice build system in general
00:13:38 <GregorR-L> /usr/bin/perl ../bfjoust ais523_defend8.bfjoust nescience_simpletest.bfjoust has been running for EVER
00:14:37 <AnMaster> GregorR, did you see what I said about properly slox-limiting it?
00:14:50 <EgoBot> 61 ++++++++++[>++++++++++>++++++++++++>+><<<<-]>>----.<+.>-.+.>. [291]
00:14:55 <ehird> 00:14 AnMaster: GregorR, did you see what I said about properly slox-limiting it?
00:15:01 <ehird> that is why it is slow.
00:15:01 <Patashu> that's not going to do what you think it does, nooga
00:15:14 <nescience> i just want to see what happened >:(
00:15:19 <pikhq> Earlier, I viewer the generated assembly for a program compiled with -Os.
00:15:28 <GregorR-L> Please WAIT for the run to finish before adding new warriors :P
00:15:30 <pikhq> Among other things, it had "xor %eax, %eax".
00:15:36 <Patashu> it will step forward and fall off the edge
00:15:38 <AnMaster> GregorR, other interpreters are broken, special commands are not
00:15:53 <GregorR-L> $ time ../bfjoust ais523_defend8.bfjoust nescience_simpletest.bfjoust
00:16:15 <ais523> let's hope ehird finishes his new, faster, interpreter soon
00:16:21 <AnMaster> GregorR, So why do other special commands work still
00:16:26 <Patashu> harder better faster interpretier
00:16:31 <ais523> the current interp I've written works very badly on programs like defend8
00:16:52 <GregorR-L> And yet that still doesn't work :P
00:17:02 <ehird> 00:16 ais523: let's hope ehird finishes his new, faster, interpreter soon ← yes, I'm working on it
00:17:08 <ehird> it'll probably be done tomorrow
00:17:08 <AnMaster> GregorR, so why doesn't THAT work then...
00:17:22 <AnMaster> GregorR, or is bf_txtgen not sloxed?
00:17:28 <nescience> GregorR-L: can you have it, instead of replacing report.txt, keep the last X versions?
00:17:36 <GregorR-L> dfhioasfhoidashfupdhafoihaewiospfhdiosahfiud;sfhio
00:17:40 <nescience> i hate to keep submitting this when i only want to see the results once
00:18:01 <AnMaster> nescience, so wait for your turn
00:18:19 <nescience> except i can't sit here f5ing constantly to catch it and people keep submitting
00:18:23 <nescience> so i've missed the results each time
00:18:35 <ais523> the problem is, the better BF Joust gets, the more people want GregorR to do to improve it...
00:18:38 <AnMaster> nescience, wait for the score in channel
00:18:39 <GregorR-L> Currently the CPU is barely in use, so I don't know why other things aren't running.
00:18:47 <nescience> AnMaster: the score-in-channel is broken
00:18:53 <AnMaster> GregorR, maybe restart it then
00:18:55 <nescience> and doesn't tell me how it did against individual programs
00:19:23 <nescience> AnMaster: at the rate this is going, a backup or three would be a simple, effective, solution
00:19:31 <AnMaster> nescience, make a patch that does it
00:19:33 <nescience> and i'd need the code to submit a patch eh?
00:19:39 <EgoBot> EgoBot is a bot for running programs in esoteric programming languages. If you'd like to add support for your language to EgoBot, check out the source via mercurial at https://codu.org/projects/egobot/hg/
00:19:59 <AnMaster> nescience, now we are waiting for the patch
00:20:31 * GregorR-L is so glad when people defend him for a tick :P
00:20:58 <nescience> AnMaster: shut the hell up for a change, eh?
00:21:14 <nescience> i was attempting to at least be polite to GregorR-L
00:21:46 <AnMaster> nescience, to me that looked more like "buggering"
00:22:02 <nescience> no, you were the one being obnoxious
00:22:12 <GregorR-L> PRIVMSG/tr_21.cmd: fork: Resource temporarily unavailable <-- well here's the problem
00:22:17 <ehird> 00:20 nescience: AnMaster: shut the hell up for a change, eh? ← don't bother
00:22:26 <ehird> i've tried for over a year.
00:23:05 * GregorR-L up'd the limit from 32 procs to 1024 :P
00:23:05 <AnMaster> <nescience> how about backups of report.txt <nescience> GregorR-L: can you have it, instead of replacing report.txt, keep the last X versions? <-- Last two cases.
00:23:19 <pikhq> !c printf("ô_ô\n");
00:23:37 <AnMaster> GregorR, it proably needs to be restarted then
00:23:47 <Patashu> so is that mega bfjoust match stalled or chugging along?
00:23:47 <nescience> i simply realized who to address it to
00:23:53 <Patashu> is there a way to test if it's making progress?
00:23:59 <nescience> so.. yeah, whatever floats your boat i guess
00:24:00 <AnMaster> GregorR, that is, if you did it in /etc/security/limits
00:24:15 <GregorR-L> It's still running, but it's taking 4 minutes per run of defend8 X_X
00:25:05 <Patashu> would defend8 run faster if you forcefully unrolled all the *s?
00:25:20 <EgoBot> Score for nooga_wot: 10.8
00:25:20 <EgoBot> Score for nooga_wot: 10.8
00:25:40 <Patashu> hang on how'd it beat someone
00:26:01 <GregorR-L> Ha, it beat ehird_defend6_a_parody_or_just_plain_ripoff_question_mark.bfjoust :P
00:26:03 <Patashu> it beat...defend6 a parody
00:26:18 <nescience> but it didn't beat any of the defends
00:26:36 <ehird> what's nooga_wot's source?
00:27:03 <ais523> haha, I just figured out how
00:27:09 <ehird> AN ARROW TO THE FUTURE
00:27:20 <ais523> a nice case of perfect timing
00:28:08 <Patashu> I curse the ground you stand apon
00:28:21 <AnMaster> <ehird> !bfjoust wat [->] <-- won't that just nop very very early on
00:28:35 <ehird> GregorR-L: yeah, yeah, I'm on it
00:28:39 <ehird> just remove defend8
00:28:41 <ehird> so we can get on with things
00:28:50 <AnMaster> ehird, just finish that interpreter :P
00:29:02 <ehird> removing defend8: 3 seconds
00:29:12 <ehird> finishing interpreter, writing new hill infrastructure, ...: 95893458345 years
00:29:15 <ehird> that slowsi t down
00:29:18 <ehird> abbreviations speed up the interpreter
00:29:29 <nooga> where is score chart?
00:29:34 <GregorR-L> ehird: If the new interpreter just exits with 1 or 2, the new hill infrastructure is one line of change.
00:29:39 <ehird> nooga: http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/report.txt
00:29:41 <ehird> empty while calculating
00:29:54 <ehird> GregorR-L: it's much much more nuanced than that, and I want to make a new scoring mechanism
00:29:57 <GregorR-L> (Yes, that's on my list, I'm fixing backslashes now)
00:30:29 -!- Halph has joined.
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00:30:48 -!- Halph has changed nick to coppro.
00:31:17 <EgoBot> 37 ++++++++++[>+++++++++>+>><<<<-]>++.>. [37]
00:31:20 <nooga> wonder if there's something like java golf
00:31:20 <EgoBot> Unsupported instruction ''' (0x27) (maybe not Befunge-93?)
00:33:01 <nooga> Patashu: codegolfing in java is like trying to hide a truck in a matchbox, probably
00:33:17 <Patashu> you have to consider it relatively
00:33:22 <Patashu> you're not going to be smaller than most languages
00:33:26 <Patashu> but you can be small relative to java programs
00:33:36 <Patashu> I beat primo's java program with my own once :)
00:33:38 <ehird> enum H{{System.out.println("Hello, world!");System.exit(0);}}
00:33:50 <ehird> enum is shorter than class, and using a static declaration + exit to avoid the no main error
00:33:57 <ehird> is shorter than declaring a main method
00:34:08 <ais523> ehird: that is so wrong
00:34:13 <ehird> ais523: it so works :)
00:34:26 <ais523> ehird: would that run at compile-time?
00:34:30 <nooga> ehird: i'd put System.do.me.a.favor.and.die() instead od System.exit(0);
00:34:30 <pikhq> ehird: That's impressive, actually.
00:34:38 <ehird> enum H{{System.out.println("Hello, world!");System.exit(0);}} ← 62 chars
00:34:41 <ehird> class H{public static void main(String[] args){System.out.println("Hello, world!");}} ← 86 chars
00:34:41 <EgoBot> Score for ehird_wat: 7.0
00:34:53 <Patashu> don't forget you can rename String[] args to String[]_ or similar
00:34:59 <Patashu> that saves four characters
00:35:02 <ehird> class H{public static void main(String[]_){System.out.println("Hello, world!");}}
00:35:07 <nooga> where is nooga_wot ?
00:35:12 <ehird> nooga: it was too bad
00:35:23 <Patashu> okay so is defend8 being removed?
00:35:29 <Patashu> I want to submit stuff on a good conscience
00:35:30 <ehird> nooga: it died before that
00:35:37 <ais523> I don't mind defend8 being removed
00:35:45 <ais523> especially as it seems not to work the way I wanted it to
00:35:45 <Patashu> it looks verbose enough huh ;)
00:36:10 <ehird> c# is basically java w/ less crap and som nice stuff
00:36:28 <pikhq> And less portability.
00:36:33 <ehird> i can't think of any bad stuff it adds to java
00:36:44 <ehird> true, .NET has some bad points
00:36:47 <oerjan> !slashes http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/slashes/quine.sss
00:36:56 <ehird> but C# as a language is OK, and .NET isn't unportable
00:36:58 <pikhq> "It runs on Windows XP *and* Vista! ... Oh, and Mono, if you want it to."
00:37:06 <ehird> pikhq: Mono runs on everything.
00:37:07 <ais523> ehird: it doesn't port to Mac
00:37:13 <oerjan> GregorR-L: ^ that's still not working
00:37:14 <ais523> I thought Mono was Linux only
00:37:15 <ehird> ais523: Mono runs on OS X
00:37:17 <AnMaster> ehird, it is unportable. Unless you keep being developing on mono
00:37:26 <ehird> AnMaster: Mono is mostly compatible with .NET's base library.
00:37:29 <pikhq> ehird: .NET isn't unportable. However, a lot of .NET code makes Win32 API calls.
00:37:37 <ehird> GUI stuff, not as much. But base library, ...
00:37:41 <AnMaster> ehird, with .NET 1.1 + some of 2.0 yes
00:37:43 <GregorR-L> oerjan: In what way is it failing? I don't see any output.
00:37:50 <ehird> AnMaster: .NET 3.0 = .NET 2.0
00:38:09 <ehird> AnMaster: It is not wrong. The framework itself is identical.
00:38:17 <AnMaster> ehird, that "in language expression" thing
00:38:24 <ehird> AnMaster: It is not a major release.
00:38:26 <coppro> Mono will run on everything, but that doesn't make .NEt a good idea
00:38:29 <ehird> It is a minor new release
00:38:37 <ehird> coppro: it's just as good as an idea as the JVM...
00:38:38 <oerjan> GregorR-L: it's a 1496 character quine
00:38:50 <oerjan> one line, but i assume it should be cut off...
00:39:11 <oerjan> !slashes http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/slashes/counter3.sss
00:39:12 <EgoBot> /\/\/\/\\\\/\\\\\\\/\\\\\\\/\\\\\\\/\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\\//\/\/\/\\\/\/\\////\\////\\\///\\////\\\///\\////\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\\///\\////\\////\\\///\\////\\\//
00:39:15 <coppro> at least JVM is open source
00:39:32 <oerjan> huh now it arrived just with the second character
00:39:41 <oerjan> AnMaster: i know, without /\ it's trivial
00:39:46 <ehird> 00:39 coppro: at least JVM is open source
00:39:53 <oerjan> _with_ /\ it's as hard as any other language
00:39:55 <ehird> But not 1.5 or 1.6.
00:40:01 <ehird> Yes, there is an OpenJDK backport for 1.6.
00:40:07 <ehird> But it isn't totally 1.6 compatible.
00:40:12 <ehird> That is, it's hard to use it as a 1.6.
00:40:13 <oerjan> with _just_ /\, a bit worse :D
00:40:15 <coppro> ehird: yeah, but at least they're tryping
00:40:21 <pikhq> It passes 1.6 compliance tests.
00:40:29 <ehird> pikhq: which means jack shit in the real world.
00:40:42 <ehird> coppro: .NET isn't a canonical implementation, anyway
00:40:46 <ehird> .NET is a CLI implementation
00:40:49 <pikhq> Java's compliance tests are thorough.
00:40:50 <ehird> if you're sane pick the latter
00:40:55 <oerjan> GregorR-L: seems it was just slow, unless it somehow waited for the second command
00:41:02 <nooga> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/JavaOS << beautiful, but sloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
00:41:07 <nooga> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooo
00:41:13 <nooga> oooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow
00:41:13 <ehird> nooga: stop being a retard
00:41:14 <ais523> AnMaster: yes, oerjan has
00:41:20 <ehird> it just has a long startup time
00:41:28 <AnMaster> ais523, I missed where he proved it
00:41:30 <ehird> nooga: java _is_ fast.
00:41:32 <pikhq> Not so much barebones feature tests as they are comprehensive unit tests, covering the entire JDK.
00:41:42 <coppro> ehird: few people are sane enough to know, mainly because they go "but... WPF"
00:41:42 <nooga> ehird: but not JavaOS
00:41:44 <GregorR-L> http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/reports/
00:42:01 <ehird> nooga: have you tried it? I haven't so I don't konw.
00:42:04 <ais523> GregorR-L: not very impressive atm
00:42:20 <oerjan> AnMaster: http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/slashes/bct.sss
00:42:28 <oerjan> but that's far too slow for EgoBot
00:42:57 <ais523> ehird: repeating a comment I made earlier while I wasn't here: have you seen the Enigma trailer?
00:43:02 <oerjan> AnMaster: also, http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/slashes/BCT.hs for the generator of the monstrosity
00:43:06 <ais523> it's so bad it's hilarious
00:43:07 <AnMaster> oerjan, how do you do a non-trivial infinite loop in it then
00:43:08 <ehird> nooga: i asked a question, dick
00:43:26 <AnMaster> ais523, for the engima *game*?
00:43:29 <ais523> ehird: http://download.berlios.de/enigma-game/EnigmaTrailer1.flv
00:43:35 <nooga> ehird: of course not, it would boot for 9000 years
00:43:39 <ehird> ais523: .flv? Can I have the flash player version?
00:43:43 <ais523> ehird: there isn't one
00:43:49 <ais523> they just gave a link to the flv
00:43:51 <ehird> An .flv without a flash player?
00:43:54 <nooga> i don't have so much time to wait
00:43:57 <ais523> I played it with ffmpeg
00:44:00 <AnMaster> ais523, trailer? Is this Lara Croft on Bio with s/Lara Croft/The black ball/
00:44:04 <ehird> pikhq: yeah sure, requires opening a terminal etc
00:44:05 <GregorR-L> OK, NOW http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/reports/ :P
00:44:09 <ais523> AnMaster: just look at it, it defies explanation
00:44:12 <pikhq> Or VLC or ffmpeg or Xine.
00:44:13 <ais523> well, I could explain it
00:44:17 <ais523> but it's funnier to see it yourself
00:44:32 <oerjan> AnMaster: you self-replicate the program with a quoting scheme. See http://oerjan.nvg.org/esoteric/slashes/counter3.sss for the sanest version
00:45:00 <AnMaster> ais523: Cannot find codec matching selected -vo and video format 0x6.
00:45:10 <ais523> AnMaster: what are you trying to watch it with?
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00:45:15 <GregorR-L> Any further requests while I'm poking at EgoBot? Going once, going twice?
00:45:20 <ehird> ais523: enigma is a puzzle game!
00:45:24 <ehird> with fuzzy graphics.
00:45:29 <pikhq> GregorR-L: Write EgoBot in Plof.
00:45:33 <ais523> ehird: there's encoding fail near the start
00:45:36 <ais523> although it improves later
00:45:45 <ehird> OR MEDITATE IN THE HOLES
00:46:01 <ehird> meditation levels are the opposite of meditation
00:46:07 <AnMaster> File 'EnigmaTrailer1.flv' already exists. Overwrite ? [y/N]
00:46:11 <ehird> more like aggravation
00:46:21 <ehird> AnMaster: by converting it to another format
00:46:35 <ais523> AnMaster: or just use ffplay
00:46:36 <nooga> ehird: java.is.slow.and.verbose()
00:46:44 <GregorR-L> ffmpeg -i <file> output.myfavoriteformat
00:46:46 <ehird> nooga: you're an idiot. java sucks as a language, but it is fast
00:47:07 <ehird> nooga: why do I even bother talking to you? you're more of an idiot than AnMaster
00:47:18 <ehird> ais523: this is the most boring tailer evar
00:47:24 <nooga> ehird: you're asking me?
00:47:35 <ehird> nooga: you have experience in the matter
00:47:38 <Patashu> !bfjoust lazy >+>->++>-->--->+++>>>((-.)*512>)*21
00:47:39 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_lazy: 11.8
00:47:48 <ehird> DON'T EAT THEM OR HAVE INTERCOURSE WITH THEM
00:47:58 <ehird> Eat and drink food and water!
00:48:00 -!- GregorR-L has set topic: #esoteric: Where the crowd is always friendly, so long as you don't talk to them. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
00:48:19 -!- ehird has set topic: #esoteric: Where ehird is always friendly, so long as you don't talk to him. | http://tunes.org/~nef/logs/esoteric/?C=N;O=D.
00:48:35 * ais523 thinks "enigma includes different floors" is one of the better captions
00:48:44 <Patashu> !bfjoust rushpolarity >(+)*10>(-)*10>-->++(>)*5((+)*8[+[-]]+.--.++>(-)*8[-[+]]+.--.++>)*11
00:48:45 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_rushpolarity: 23.6
00:48:49 <Patashu> !bfjoust matador >-[]<(++-)*1000.(--+)*1000(>)*9(>[+][-])*21
00:48:51 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_matador: 27.0
00:49:19 <ehird> ais523: Watch me play chess for ages!
00:49:41 <ais523> yes, and it isn't even chess
00:50:06 <GregorR-L> OK, fixed a bug: Now it won't show an old score for an old program :P
00:50:14 <ehird> ais523: have I watched this for 4 minutes already?
00:50:32 <ehird> my brain is leaking out from my ears
00:50:38 <ehird> and underneath my eyes
00:50:53 <ais523> I don't know how anyone could have thought it was a good idea
00:50:58 <ais523> I wonder if it would persuade people to download the game?
00:51:05 <ehird> i'll have to watch it tomorrow when i'm more awake so I find it even funnier
00:51:26 <ais523> " have you seen the death stones ... "
00:51:35 <ehird> yeah that was awful
00:53:08 <ais523> "enigma includes laser games ... "
00:53:41 <ais523> nooga: it's a good game
00:53:52 <ais523> and 6 of my levels are in the next version
00:53:53 <Patashu> what page do I go to to view the report now?
00:53:54 <ais523> terrible advertising, though
00:53:57 <ehird> ais523: oh, you got them in?
00:53:59 <nooga> i remember oxyd magnum under dos
00:53:59 <Patashu> http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/report.txt no longer updates
00:55:22 <ais523> " this is a temple full of gold ! "
00:55:31 <nooga> enigma runs on OS X
00:55:37 <ais523> enigma runs on lots of things
00:55:46 <ais523> they were discussing my sudoku level with me
00:56:02 <ais523> we need to make it more efficient, in order to work on low-end processors like ARM
00:56:29 <Patashu> sudoku on a microprocessor?
00:56:30 <ehird> ais523: ARM can run full Ubuntu, you know
00:56:38 <ehird> not minimal embedded ARM, though
00:56:51 <ais523> but I was trying to do something inefficient every 100ms
00:57:03 <ais523> we're talking about how to optimise that bit of the code
00:57:43 <ais523> I love the way they add a teaser for the next version ("Rhythm of Space" isn't in Enigma 1.01)
00:58:08 <ehird> ais523: 1.01? is that old or new
00:58:10 <AnMaster> ais523, I assume it is in svn then
00:58:16 <ais523> 1.10 is the svn version
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01:11:08 <ais523> coppro: the second-best open-source game for Linux
01:11:11 <ais523> after Battle for Wesnoth
01:11:15 <ais523> it runs on everything else too
01:11:18 <ais523> http://enigma-game.org
01:11:45 <coppro> hmm... let's see if it gives DROD a run for it's money
01:11:53 <ais523> ah, I didn't count nethack for some reason
01:12:08 <ais523> probably because it's console-based
01:12:15 <ais523> add GUI to my statement above
01:12:26 <AnMaster> ais523, I also think simutrans is better. Which has a GUI
01:12:34 <AnMaster> but it was originally for windows iirc
01:12:41 <AnMaster> only later was ported to linux
01:12:48 <ais523> well, NetHack was originally for UNIX
01:12:56 <ais523> coppro: download Enigma, anyway, it's a great game
01:13:34 <coppro> drod = www.caravelgames.com btw
01:13:43 <ais523> oh I remember, you hate all the levels except the boring ones
01:13:47 <ais523> which you find interesting
01:13:58 <pikhq> AnMaster: You neglected to mention anything by iD.
01:14:06 <nooga> i want to make some eso coding based puzzle game
01:14:13 <AnMaster> pikhq, Um, isn't the graphics still closed source there iirc
01:14:24 <nooga> you know: arrange some weird runes to make something work
01:14:34 <pikhq> The .wads aren't free.
01:14:43 <ais523> nooga: there's a Brainfuck-based programs in Enigma
01:14:49 <AnMaster> pikhq, and I have great respect for the fast inverse square root
01:14:55 <pikhq> Well, Doom has shareware .wads.
01:14:58 <ais523> nooga: "print 23", search for it
01:15:07 <ais523> but it's the exception, not the rule
01:15:18 <AnMaster> pikhq, I don't consider it free and open without free and open data
01:15:27 <coppro> I've got the basics down
01:15:28 <ais523> coppro: basically, it's a generic puzzle game
01:15:35 <pikhq> Fine. You're a bit more hardcore than Stallman, but anyways.
01:15:37 <coppro> yeah, try to match the boxes
01:15:39 <nooga> quite common phrase
01:15:42 <coppro> but what are the scrolls for, etc.
01:15:42 <ais523> and what you have to accomplish in a level varies a lot
01:15:43 <pikhq> Total conversions of those games, then?
01:15:44 <AnMaster> pikhq, sure source may be, but it isn't very useful to the end user
01:15:51 <AnMaster> pikhq, who doesn't own said data
01:15:53 <ais523> that explain what to do
01:16:02 <AnMaster> pikhq, and I never had doom or quake
01:16:17 <ais523> they go into your inventory when you run over them; left-click to use the item you most recently picked up, mousewheel or right-click to change which item you use
01:16:31 <pikhq> AnMaster: Emerge it; I'm sure it's in Portage.
01:16:52 <pikhq> Those are gratis, not libre, but yeah.
01:17:07 <nooga> OpenTTD is also awesome
01:17:21 <AnMaster> nooga, it sucks compared to simutrans
01:17:30 <ais523> pikhq: you know how with libre files you can theoretically read the source, before running it? Well, AnMaster actually does
01:17:30 <pikhq> You are more 'free and open'-ish than Stallman.
01:17:35 <AnMaster> nooga, like no stations underground. Or tunnels with bends in
01:17:47 <pikhq> ais523: That... Is very scary.
01:18:05 <pikhq> AnMaster: BTW, have you ever checked out Second Life?
01:18:06 <AnMaster> ais523, I don't read the full source of every new glibc or kernel
01:18:21 <AnMaster> pikhq, doesn't work in offline mode
01:18:24 <pikhq> Its source is a very... Interesting read.
01:18:24 <nooga> AnMaster: but ottd has quite clean signaling rules
01:18:55 <ais523> AnMaster: what do you never play multiplayer?
01:18:57 <nooga> AnMaster: is it that because you always loose? :D
01:19:04 <pikhq> Oh, fine. By "interesting", I mean that it is Pandora's Box in code form.
01:19:18 <nooga> AnMaster: i'll give it a try
01:19:25 <AnMaster> ais523, I'm both a bad winner and a bad looser
01:19:29 <pikhq> I think it has half of the STL reimplemented poorly.
01:19:55 <GregorR-L> ais523: Is (a{}b{}c)%5 allowed? And is (a)*5 the same as (a)%5 ?
01:20:24 <pikhq> And its developers are enamoured with XML.
01:20:41 <AnMaster> pikhq, I'm so not ever going to look at that
01:20:42 <pikhq> I think if someone invented a low-level XML language, they would use it.
01:21:03 <coppro> step 1: grab the C++ standard
01:21:13 <pikhq> AnMaster: Consider that a goatse-esque thing.
01:21:14 <coppro> step 2: make every token an XML element
01:21:17 <AnMaster> pikhq, <opcode name="mov" to="eax" from="edx" />
01:21:30 <AnMaster> since you can put them in either order
01:21:36 <ais523> GregorR-L: for the first question, no, you can only have one {} in a (); for the second question, no, you need {} in a ()% block, so you'd have to write (a{})%5 to do the same as (a)*5
01:21:40 <AnMaster> <opcode name="mov" to="eax" from="edx" /> or <opcode name="mov" from="edx" to="eax" />
01:22:29 <AnMaster> <opcode to="eax" name="mov" from="edx" />
01:22:58 <AnMaster> pikhq, invalid. Those attributes are required
01:23:13 <AnMaster> however... all labels must have an end
01:23:38 <pikhq> <opcode name="mov" to="eax" from="edx"> Inline comments for the lulz? </>
01:23:38 <AnMaster> <label name="foo" local="yes" /> <!-- same as .Lfoo -->
01:23:49 <AnMaster> <opcode name="mov" to="eax" from="edx" />
01:24:05 <pikhq> AnMaster: Not valid XML.
01:24:12 <pikhq> The label tag was already closed.
01:24:38 <pikhq> Labels don't nest in assembly.
01:24:41 <AnMaster> pikhq, that was part of the point
01:25:08 <AnMaster> pikhq, and no they aren't allowed to nest
01:25:30 <AnMaster> one level of local can nest in non-local
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01:25:55 <pikhq> I... And... I HATE YOU
01:26:14 <pikhq> BAD XML SCHEMA WRITER, BAD!
01:26:26 <AnMaster> <section name=".rodata" type="data" writable="no">
01:26:54 <coppro> what do the mini black balls do?
01:27:07 <AnMaster> <data name="whatever"><![[CDATA[ ... ]]></data>
01:27:11 <coppro> does that become relevant later?
01:27:17 <AnMaster> not sure that cdata is correct
01:27:24 <ais523> if you have one in your inventory and die, and the level allows resurrection, you end up being resurrected at the start of the level rather than having to restart
01:27:29 <ais523> and yes, I imagine you'll mess up later
01:27:37 <ais523> and fall into water or hit a death stone or something
01:27:42 <ais523> some levels are very lethal
01:28:03 <AnMaster> pikhq, did I get the CDATA signature right?
01:28:35 <pikhq> I DUNNO, I KEEL YOU
01:28:45 <nooga> http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eB2nkRG2kMI here
01:28:58 <nooga> this is what i am after 20 hours of work
01:29:19 <pikhq> YES. SURE. I DON'T CARE, BURN WITH THE HEAT OF A THOUSAND SUNS!
01:29:38 * pikhq kneels with a nuke strapped to his back. Hits the Big Red Button™.
01:29:42 <AnMaster> pikhq, also I think this would of course be much better in S-Expressions
01:32:00 <AnMaster> pikhq, why did you have a duke strapped on your back
01:32:06 <AnMaster> and what did the duke think about it
01:33:59 <pikhq> It was the Duke of Nukem, actually.
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01:54:42 <GregorR-L> If both programs + at the same time in the same cell, does 2 get added? It's confusing because they both look at the "in" value...
01:55:17 <ais523> if it doesn't, that's a bug
01:55:26 <GregorR-L> OK, that makes sense, but the "spec" didn't make it clear :P
01:57:00 <coppro> ais523: what do the silver/gold medals and feathers on the level selection screen mean?
01:57:30 <ais523> coppro: feather = unsolved easy level, silver = solved easy level, gold = hard level
01:57:38 <ais523> you can click on the feather button to switch between easy and hard mode
01:58:53 <GregorR-L> And what happens when a program terminates? Just loops?
01:59:08 <coppro> yes, though for pure puzzleness DROD still triumphs
02:01:17 <coppro> is it just me or are the blocks not randomized in hard mode?
02:01:31 <ais523> GregorR-L: infinite nops
02:01:34 <ais523> coppro: on which level?
02:01:41 <ais523> on most levels, the oxyds are random
02:04:17 <coppro> also is it just me, or is par not par?
02:04:36 <ais523> coppro: it's an average score for good players
02:04:46 <coppro> I must really suck then
02:04:48 <ais523> although, if you only just got it, you may not have up-to-date records
02:04:57 <ais523> and most pars are rather hard to get
02:05:00 <coppro> because lots of these I can only hit par if I get real lucky on the draw
02:05:03 <ais523> because many of the good players are realy good
02:05:18 <ais523> also, people going for par keep repeating levels until they get a good time
02:08:28 <ais523> nescience: I've written levels for Enigma
02:08:34 <nescience> oxyd is probably my favorite puzzle series of all time
02:08:34 <ais523> although they're in the next version, not the current one
02:08:54 <nescience> though it's a close tie between oxyd, chip's challenge, and crystalex
02:09:03 <nescience> i haven't tried the user-generated levels in enigma actually
02:09:10 <nescience> i had mixed results the first time i did
02:09:24 <nescience> good level design can be an iffy skill :P
02:09:28 <GregorR-L> Bleh, even with a C impl defend8 is sloooooooow
02:12:55 <GregorR-L> I guess that's because the expanded version is many megs long >_>
02:13:22 <ais523> really? I thought it was slightly less than 1MB
02:13:49 <GregorR-L> My counter trying to sub-parse is at 3M
02:14:33 <oerjan> i would assume expanding is a bad idea if you don't really have to...
02:14:53 <oerjan> and the abbreviations are designed so you don't need it, arent't they
02:15:07 <GregorR-L> I suppose, but it's a huge PITA in C >_>
02:15:32 -!- nooga has quit (Read error: 110 (Connection timed out)).
02:15:47 <nescience> question, i still don't understand ({})... does (a{b}c)* expand to aabcc?
02:16:01 <ais523> nescience: (a{b}c)%2 expands to aabcc
02:16:15 <ais523> the difference to (a)*2b(c)*2 is that a and c can contain the matching halves of brackets
02:16:23 <nescience> yeah, i did forget the % and 2, whoops
02:16:44 <nescience> matching halves of [] brackets you mean
02:16:57 <nescience> i don't see why that's not possible with ()
02:16:58 <ais523> generally speaking, [] = bracket, () = paren
02:17:04 <ais523> nescience: and because you aren't allowed to do it with ()
02:17:12 <ais523> because trying to partially expand would then be a pain
02:17:16 <nescience> yeah, but i don't always know that the person i'm talking to is also a stickler for syntax names :)
02:17:16 <ais523> as you'd have to lookahead in the program
02:17:27 <oerjan> GregorR-L: you only need to keep a (nesting) counter for each abbreviation, don't you?
02:17:59 <nescience> i wonder what the trouble i had earlier was about
02:18:16 <ais523> nescience: probably a bug
02:18:24 <ais523> I wrote that interpreter in a hurry, and at about 3am
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02:19:23 <nescience> i can't quite grasp it yet, but it seems like you shouldn't need to expand anything at all
02:19:51 <nescience> () operate like a for loop, but ({}) might be more troublesome
02:20:01 <oerjan> ais523: hm it _should_ be possible to make () allow unbalanced [] by keeping track of balance level of each item
02:20:11 <ais523> oerjan: in a hurry, at 3am?
02:20:34 <nescience> on that count, if that's the only reason for {} i think it should be done away with
02:20:35 <oerjan> no, in a calm, relaxed manner
02:20:56 <oerjan> nescience: well {} can also be easier to read can it not
02:21:11 <oerjan> only one *n at the end
02:21:17 <GregorR-L> ais523: Your perl one doesn't expand, does it? I can't read it at all.
02:21:18 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Nick collision from services.).
02:21:31 -!- Gracenotes_ has changed nick to Gracenotes.
02:21:36 <nescience> ([) is at least a bit more straightforward seeming
02:21:43 <oerjan> nescience: it's sort of like delimited continuations, not that i really understand those
02:21:55 <nescience> i gotta get going to dinner, my grandma is waiting!
02:22:06 * oerjan may be going off the deep end there
02:22:25 <coppro> this level is making my ball go crazy
02:22:33 <GregorR-L> Maybe I need to expand any that include [ or ] ... :(
02:22:52 <oerjan> ais523: i thought a lot about such matching when constructing the unlambda palindromizer
02:23:02 -!- myndzi has joined.
02:23:11 <oerjan> because it's strangely almost, but not quite equivalent
02:23:12 <ais523> coppro: there are all sorts of weird things in Enigma like that
02:23:19 <ais523> each level gets to set its own laws of physics
02:23:24 <ais523> although most just use the standard ones
02:23:36 <nescience> coppro: you need rock hard control of your iron ballz! (wait, glass?)
02:23:43 <oerjan> *equivalent to parenthesis matching
02:23:56 <ais523> myndzi: new here? I don't recognise you
02:25:05 * oerjan recognizes myndzi from yesterday
02:25:06 * myndzi recognizes oerjan from yesterday
02:25:27 * ais523 catches oerjan in a butterfly net ----\XXXXX/
02:25:41 * oerjan swats his way out -----###
02:25:52 <oerjan> unfortunately i seem to only hit other butterflies
02:26:58 <oerjan> ais523: inside paren matching () (or []) always cancel, so a whole item always reduces to ]...]][[...[
02:27:19 <oerjan> and it's not _that_ hard to construct a calculus of those, for repetition
02:27:26 <ais523> admittedly, that's a rather silly case
02:27:52 <oerjan> ais523: ok there may be a number of corner cases, but it should be doable
02:28:07 <oerjan> that would have a ][ matching totally
02:28:12 <psygnisfive> WARNING: preposterous time in Real Time Clock -- CHECK AND RESET THE DATE!
02:28:28 <ais523> psygnisfive: a genuine warning?
02:28:51 <oerjan> ais523: it's a monoid, of course
02:29:10 <ais523> what was the preposterous time?
02:29:23 <oerjan> you could use it to split up parenthesis matching in parallel :D
02:29:46 <oerjan> psygnisfive: it's irish?
02:30:46 <oerjan> psygnisfive: your computer has been infected with a RIRA virus
02:30:56 <ais523> myndzi: are you here for BF Joust, or just happened to arrive around now by coincidence?
02:31:52 * oerjan tests if myndzi has a response script, as that was too eerie...
02:31:53 * myndzi tests if oerjan has a response script, as that was too eerie...
02:32:42 * ais523 wonders if myndzi is a bot
02:32:43 * myndzi wonders if ais523 is a bot
02:32:57 * GregorR-L , glancing at myndzi, declares that GregorR-L is his lord and master.
02:32:57 * myndzi , glancing at GregorR-L, declares that myndzi is his lord and master.
02:33:18 <ais523> although most bots don't claim to be using mIRC
02:33:31 <ais523> fungot: say hi to myndzi
02:33:32 <fungot> ais523: " what?" the wind, the sharp tin taste of snow. it was just some mud in water... i expect you're not afraid any more," said
02:33:48 <oerjan> ais523: myndzi did converse yesterday though
02:33:50 <ais523> !underload (hi myndzi)S
02:34:19 <oerjan> ais523: he added something to the BF Joust talk page
02:34:40 * ais523 wonders why ehird's reverse version of defend8 is second, whereas the real defend8 is 11th
02:34:41 -!- psygnisfive has quit (Read error: 104 (Connection reset by peer)).
02:34:46 <ais523> I suspect tape length randomization
02:34:51 <oerjan> !underload (<CTCP>ACTION bows to myndzi<CTCP>)S
02:34:59 -!- psygnisfive has joined.
02:35:11 <ais523> ^ul (<CTCP>ACTION bows to myndzi<CTCP>)S
02:37:54 <psygnisfive> i should invent some sort of world wide web thing
02:38:20 * oerjan invents a PReViouS machine
02:40:19 <oerjan> hm, it gets a bit hairy if you have something like ]]][[
02:40:53 <oerjan> ah, you can analyze it as ](]][[)
02:41:04 <pikhq> psygnisfive: Create some hypertext markup language.
02:41:54 <psygnisfive> pikhq: i would, but unfortunately noone will use it :(
02:42:04 <pikhq> psygnisfive: Call it Gopher.
02:42:19 <oerjan> if you have several in a row, all but the middle one cancel
02:44:03 <oerjan> ]] ] [[ + ]] ] [[ = ]] ]] [[
02:44:19 <oerjan> with the middle ones coming from the middle ones, in terms of who match who
02:47:54 * oerjan thinks this ties into the recent finger tree post on good math, bad math
02:50:46 -!- fungebob has quit (anthony.freenode.net irc.freenode.net).
02:51:03 -!- fungebob has joined.
02:52:16 <oerjan> (a{b}c)*n -> (a)*n b (c)*n of course
02:56:19 -!- MizardX has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)).
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04:00:22 <psygnisfive> ^ was originally used for lambda notation, in various forms.
04:01:03 <psygnisfive> m̂.m+1 became ˆm.m+1 became ^m.m+1 became λm.m+1
04:01:42 <pikhq> Hmm. Any way of writing a nice lambda with compose?
04:03:50 <oerjan> pikhq: sorry, it's all greek to me
04:04:18 <pikhq> oerjan: The compose key. ;)
04:05:19 * oerjan doesn't think he has seen a compose key since last he sat at a real VT
04:10:29 <pikhq> I've got Win bound to Compose.
04:10:45 <pikhq> It's handy, Ørjan. ;)
04:10:53 <pikhq> psygnisfive: Lets you compose two characters.
04:11:16 <pikhq> For example, I can stick umlauts on something by typing Compose " o
04:12:36 <psygnisfive> i didnt even know w, t, h, and x had diareses D:
04:12:53 <pikhq> That's the composing diareses.
04:13:42 <pikhq> Basically, it's the composing diaresis followed by a character. They are displayed as a single character.
04:14:02 <ais523> whereas, say, n with an umlaut isn't
04:14:07 <pikhq> I can do it without composing.
04:14:10 <ais523> so I suspect some language uses it
04:14:30 <ais523> psygnisfive: it doesn't exist
04:15:02 <pikhq> For some reason, I can't get a ı by typing it, but I *can* get a İ.
04:22:59 <psygnisfive> everyones got a goatee, but g has a mohawk
04:23:56 <psygnisfive> damnit, i want my c's to have a backwards goatee!
04:26:08 <myndzi> oerjan: yesterday... hmmm
04:26:16 <myndzi> i don't know if i joined from here, but
04:26:26 <myndzi> nescience's ident is my nick, so that might be it
04:27:23 <oerjan> but you _did_ comment on the wiki, right?
04:27:27 <myndzi> also (ais523) i am the home computer of nescience, so yeah, bsjoust
04:28:17 <myndzi> i was using 'nescience' at the time
04:28:22 <myndzi> but since i had to register, i used my normal handle
04:28:34 <myndzi> also, try the /me script with colored nicks ;>
04:28:53 <myndzi> though both of you have the same nicklen as me so i guess it wouldn't be totally apparent how cool it is!
04:29:06 <myndzi> nobody tried to exploit it either yet, hehe
04:29:31 <myndzi> the script is primarily there as bait for things like
04:29:45 <myndzi> //nick asshole | me is a myndzi
04:29:58 <pikhq> I'm afraıḋ that whenever I use a letter 'I', I'm goıṅg to have to omıt the I and move ıṫ over a space.
04:30:17 <myndzi> əɹəɥʇ ʎｕｕｎɟ əｌʇʇɪｌ ɐ ѕʞооｌ ʇ ɹｎоʎ
04:30:32 <myndzi> see i have all the fun scripts on this one \o/
04:30:39 <pikhq> Also, the backwards goatee?
04:30:56 <myndzi> your nick is 1 letter too short, and it's not enabled in this channel
04:31:32 <myndzi> there you go, \o/ away! _o| \o/ |o/ \m/ \m/ \o/
04:32:09 <myndzi> like most of my boredom projects
04:32:20 <myndzi> there was a guy in a channel i was in who used \o/ excessively
04:32:36 <myndzi> so i made the script to line up a body under the head
04:32:56 <myndzi> (though that last time, i could swear i put some codes in the way so that it wouldn't react... oh well)
04:33:13 <myndzi> as i said, your nick is too short
04:33:17 <myndzi> you have to put a couple chars before it
04:33:21 <myndzi> the rocker needs an extra space
04:33:27 <myndzi> the little dude lines up without extra space
04:33:40 <myndzi> but his foot would be in my nick for you
04:34:17 <myndzi> though i bet a larger proportion of dudes in here use xchat or something so it probably looks like crap to them
04:34:23 <myndzi> than many irc channels, i mean
04:41:52 -!- Corun has changed nick to Corun|away.
04:42:24 -!- ais523 has quit (Remote closed the connection).
04:46:53 <myndzi> i didn't expect my join to confuse people so
04:47:01 <myndzi> i just RDP'd home and joined up so i'd have buffer to read
04:47:18 <myndzi> it's just a silly script
04:47:26 <myndzi> try //nick penis | me likes the myndzi
04:47:42 <myndzi> or //me pokes myndzi in the nose
04:47:58 -!- GregorR-L has changed nick to cocks.
04:48:11 * myndzi thinks GregorR-L likes cocks
04:48:30 -!- cocks has changed nick to phalli.
04:48:42 * myndzi thinks GregorR-L likes phalli
04:48:57 <phalli> I figured you had a word list.
04:49:03 <phalli> But "phalli" would be a weird one to be there.
04:49:13 <myndzi> simpler than that, but i'm sure eventually you guys can figure it out
04:49:22 -!- phalli has changed nick to GregorR-L.
04:49:23 <myndzi> also, flood protection
04:49:29 <myndzi> 30 seconds i think is too much, i should reduce it
04:50:06 <myndzi> I can bring my intimacy to the high level
04:50:14 <myndzi> my email tells me so, it must be true
04:50:25 -!- Corun|away has changed nick to Corun.
04:51:02 <myndzi> but yeah, i also wrote a script to replace my nick with color codes included :)
04:51:13 <myndzi> if the nicks are different sizes it scales the codes as best it can
04:51:37 <myndzi> just one of many silly things i've amassed over the years
04:51:42 <myndzi> ╺┳━┳━━┳━┳┳━┳┳━━┳┳━━┳━┳━━━━━━┳━┳┳━━━━━━━━━━━┳┳┳━━━━┓
04:51:43 <myndzi> ╻┣╸┣━╸┣╸╹┗╸╹┗┳╸┃┗╸╺╋╸┗━━┳━╸┏┛╺┫┗━┓┏╸┏╸╺━┓╺┳┫┃┣╸╺━┳┫
04:51:43 <myndzi> ┃┗┓┗┳╸┗━━━╸╺┳┻┓┗╸╺┳┻━━╸╺┻┳┓┗╸╺┻━╸╹┣╸┣╸┏━┛╺┛╹╹┗╸╺━┛┃
04:51:43 <myndzi> ┣╸┗╸┗━━━━┳┓╺╋╸┗━━╸┗━━┓┏┓╺┛┃┏━┳┓┏╸╻┗┳╋━┛╺┓┏┳╸╺┓╺┳╸╺┫
04:51:46 <myndzi> ┃┏╸┏╸╻╻┏╸╹╹╺┻╸┏╸╺┓╺┳╸┗┛╹┏╸┗┻╸╹┗┛┏┛┏┛╹┏╸╻┣┛┗╸╺┻┳┻╸╺┛
04:51:49 <myndzi> ┗┻━┻━┻┻┻━━━━━━┻━━┻━┻━━━━┻━━━━━━━┻━┻━━┻━┻┻━━━━━┻━━━╸
04:52:51 <myndzi> that's probably bane on freenode huh? :P
04:53:03 <pikhq> *Windows* is bane on Freenode.
04:53:11 <myndzi> i could be running wine :D
04:54:01 <myndzi> every now and again i try to like linux but it just never works out between us
04:54:11 <myndzi> she's a fine woman, but maybe we're just zodiacally incompatible or something
04:56:08 <GregorR-L> Probably uses Primm's or something.
04:56:11 <myndzi> though with the ascii space there's not really enough to work with to make them challenging
04:56:29 <myndzi> i have scripts for like 3 or 4 algorithms heh
04:56:36 <Gracenotes> looks a bit better copying it into a text editor
04:56:48 <myndzi> i've got one that uses eller's algorithm in an @window
04:56:52 <myndzi> but rather than being mean i made it randomly end
04:56:58 <myndzi> it'd be amusing to make it go on forever
04:57:33 <Gracenotes> I used to draw such awesome mazes when I was a kid. with chalk, on my neighborhood street
04:57:43 <Gracenotes> all the kids came out and tried to navigate
04:57:46 <myndzi> for some reason i started doodling one line mazes
04:57:54 <myndzi> i still do on occasion
04:58:05 <myndzi> i also used to make lego marble mazes that would infuriate everybody except me
04:58:11 <myndzi> (fools! i trapped your ball!)
04:58:24 <myndzi> i made a huge one one time that was like 5 stories tall
04:58:36 <myndzi> i had enough space inside to play around with using ramps and various gadgets
04:59:03 <myndzi> Gracenotes: draw a chalk maze around the block.
04:59:14 <myndzi> have the start and end directly next to each other, but make sure they cannot connect
05:00:07 <Gracenotes> hey... this was when I was, like, 8 years old.
05:00:43 <Gracenotes> but they were right next to each other
05:00:50 <myndzi> i think i made lego mazes when i was really young too, except instead of marbles and people trying to solve them, i put ants in them
05:01:03 <myndzi> i had little clear blocks so i could see how far they got!
05:02:34 <GregorR-L> According to my new, fast bfjoust interpreter, defend8 runs off the tape a lot ...
05:02:40 <Gracenotes> and they crawled up the wall, huh? >_>
05:02:57 <myndzi> like my marble mazes, they were 3d
05:03:08 <myndzi> Gracenotes: guess that means it's not dec/incing enough to get the flag
05:03:36 <myndzi> funny. i'm proud of my nick completer but it's got me in the habit of completing nicks with one letter
05:03:43 <myndzi> so if i sense a conflict i automatically type two
05:03:46 <GregorR-L> myndzi: I haven't really read into the programs much, I just want to see if I can get an approximately correct result :P
05:04:17 <Gracenotes> http://www.astrolog.org/labyrnth/algrithm.htm
05:04:26 <myndzi> yeah, i remember that page :)
05:04:34 <Gracenotes> games in mazes prolly aren't that fun, really >_>
05:04:47 <myndzi> nope, mazes are pretty boring when it comes to it
05:05:04 <myndzi> i once saw someone on 4chan request rule 34 on mazes
05:05:10 <myndzi> ...and it was provided
05:05:17 <Gracenotes> because there's an obvious target (the end of the maze), but it takes so long to get to it
05:05:17 <myndzi> it was, of course, a hentai manga
05:05:45 <Gracenotes> most gamers feel like you need intermediate goals, iirc
05:06:12 <myndzi> i am quite patient and persistent
05:06:26 <myndzi> there can be levels with an obvious target that take a long time to get to
05:06:29 <myndzi> but at least they are interesting
05:06:32 <myndzi> there's not much interesting about most mazes
05:06:57 <Gracenotes> still, room-by-room step-based games (roguelikes too, although generally not step-based) can be fun
05:07:10 <myndzi> there's this level in crystalex where you have a two-screen(?) map
05:07:19 <myndzi> with like 150 blocks or something to break
05:07:29 <myndzi> and you have to basically work out a path to break them all in an order that gives you enough points to pass
05:07:40 <myndzi> it was tedious and took a long time, but somehow managed to be interesting anyway
05:07:54 <myndzi> helped by the fact that by the time you encounter it you already have a good idea of some of the tricks you can apply
05:08:11 <myndzi> the solution is such that you can't slip up even once
05:08:23 <myndzi> so even if you figure out something, you have to then pull it off
05:08:26 <myndzi> ..just to see if it works
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05:08:51 <GregorR-L> Damn, egojoust is doing something wrong ...
05:09:03 <GregorR-L> With randomization removed from both, its result is different ...
05:09:15 * coppro needs to find his calculus outlines
05:09:40 <GregorR-L> It's because I un-implemented {} :P
05:10:10 <GregorR-L> No, never mind, that's only in one program, and it's not the only affected program ...
05:10:21 <myndzi> by the way, http://myndzi.tengototen.net/crystalex.rar if the puzzle dudes want to check it out
05:11:19 <myndzi> wait, it's an exe file!
05:11:23 <GregorR-L> .7z would be beautiful, and is also better.
05:11:37 <myndzi> i don't know if it runs under wine
05:11:54 <GregorR-L> I was more just finding excuses to complain :P
05:12:25 <myndzi> that reminds me i never did hold an oxyd thread :(
05:12:31 <myndzi> i had planned to when the crystalex thread completed
05:13:22 * coppro suggest players try DROD - you'll enjoy it
05:13:46 <myndzi> drod falls in that category of games that don't interest me much for some reason
05:13:47 <coppro> if you're scared by the fact that you need to provide monies, that's only for the official levelsets
05:13:52 <myndzi> along with boulderdash style games
05:14:10 <myndzi> i have a hard time putting a finger on my desires in a puzzle game
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05:31:52 * myndzi opens the crayon box and takes out the crayon labeled "confused"
05:32:27 <GregorR-L> I think I've implemented % wrong, but it's right as far as I can see :P
05:33:04 <myndzi> i don't know anything about your code, so i guess i can't help much :)
05:35:04 <GregorR-L> I only suspect that % is the problem because I can produce identical results to ais' in every case except the program with a %
05:35:28 <myndzi> why don't you just print out the expanded version and examine it by eye?
05:37:08 <GregorR-L> And the output from ais' looks all wrong :P
05:38:17 <GregorR-L> Well, it's just that his output is confusing, it does it one step at a time whereas I do what expansion is necessary all at once.
05:38:19 <myndzi> he did say he hacked it together at 3am didn't he?
05:39:46 <myndzi> haha, i'm not sure what i'm looking at
05:40:28 <GregorR-L> (>(+{>}-)%9)*2(>)*5([---[+]]>)*21 // the source
05:41:10 <myndzi> why is it adding -s after the ({})
05:41:32 <myndzi> i think it keeps the ({}) for reference
05:41:38 <myndzi> and when the counter hits 0
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05:41:49 <myndzi> it drops the parts between ({ and })
05:42:00 <myndzi> it looks funny because it's only showing you the current instruction, so the left side never 'grows'
05:42:15 <myndzi> how's your version come out?
05:42:44 <GregorR-L> >+++++++++>---------%9>+++++++++>---------%9*2>>>>>*5[---[+]]>[---[+]]>[---[+]]>[---[+]]>[---[+]]>[---[+]]>[---[+]]>[---[+]]>[---[+]]>[---[+]]>[---[+]]>[---[+]]>[---[+]]>[---[+]]>[---[+]]>[---[+]]>[---[+]]>[---[+]]>[---[+]]>[---[+]]>[---[+]]>*21
05:42:58 <GregorR-L> (The leftover "%9", "*2" etc are just skipped as comments)
05:43:10 <myndzi> so the way you compare these then
05:43:20 <myndzi> is take the left character of his output
05:43:23 <myndzi> and concatenate them all
05:43:47 <myndzi> i was trying to do it in notepad but what a pain
05:44:15 <myndzi> 'cause his output is execution
05:44:19 <myndzi> and yours is before that
05:44:23 <myndzi> so.. output execution?
05:44:34 <myndzi> concatenate his left characters into a string
05:44:42 <myndzi> then in yours, concatenate the executed instructions as well
05:44:49 <myndzi> you aren't spending a cycle on the comments are you?
05:45:49 <GregorR-L> My execution trace is >+++++++++>--------->+++++++++>--------->>>>>[---[+]]>[---[+]+++++++++>--------->+++++++++>--------->>>>>[>[>[---[+]+++++++++>--------->+++++++++>--------->>
05:45:54 <myndzi> anyway, the only part with the {} is at the start
05:46:14 <myndzi> his..: >+++++++++>--------->+++++++++>--------->>>>>[>[>[>[>[>[>[>[>[>[>[>[---[+[+[+[+[+[[>[---[+[[>[---[+[+[+[+[+[[>[---[+[[>[---[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[+[
05:46:14 <myndzi> yours: >+++++++++>--------->+++++++++>--------->>>>>[---[+]]>[---[+]+++++++++>--------->+++++++++>--------->>>>>[>[>[---[+]+++++++++>--------->+++++++++>--------->>
05:46:42 <myndzi> looks like the ({})%N part is the same
05:46:53 <myndzi> but you're having weirdness on the brackets
05:47:01 <myndzi> or else not outputting them quite right
05:47:26 <myndzi> oh, also.. are you checking for 0 at the [ character?
05:47:35 <myndzi> it should skip the entire [] block if it's 0
05:47:46 <GregorR-L> ... it should use a cycle there, right?
05:47:53 <myndzi> it should use a cycle on the [
05:47:56 <myndzi> and then skip the ---'s
05:48:15 <myndzi> it looks like you are executing them
05:48:36 <myndzi> ..oh, i dunno, maybe it's not spitting out parts it should be
05:48:55 -!- Corun has changed nick to Corun|away.
05:49:16 <myndzi> if i skip that kinda stuff they look closer to matching.. a little
05:49:38 <myndzi> also your pointers or something are off
05:49:49 <myndzi> why is it putting ]+++++++++>---------> in after it gets past the % part?
05:50:20 <myndzi> it looks like it maybe expanded correct but executed wrong
05:50:32 <GregorR-L> Must've failed to match loops or something.
05:50:56 <myndzi> it's going back to the start of the first (
05:52:00 <myndzi> which makes more sense
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05:54:11 <myndzi> glad you did, 'cause i can barely read c! ;)
05:54:28 <myndzi> rather, it's read-only and understanding through context.. which doesn't always help with debugging
05:54:53 <GregorR-L> Then probably you won't see why this is bad: int *buf = malloc(someSize * sizeof(int)); memset(buf, -1, someSize);
05:55:03 * myndzi gives GregorR-L a (+(+(+(+(+(+(+(+(+(+)*1000)*1000)*1000)*1000)*1000)*1000)*1000)*1000)*1000)*1000
05:55:28 <myndzi> somesize doesn't have * sizeof too?
05:55:36 <myndzi> the one in memset i mean
05:55:40 <myndzi> that'd explain why it's 0
05:56:41 <myndzi> it still seems like it should be possible to interpret without expansion at all
05:56:45 <myndzi> i have a little time, lemme see if i can work it out
05:57:31 <myndzi> again it occurs to me that i don't quite know how it behaves, lol
05:57:35 <myndzi> what should happen for
05:57:40 <GregorR-L> It interprets without expansion in most cases.
05:58:13 <myndzi> yeah, that's simple seeming
05:58:20 <myndzi> in addition to keeping a pointer, you'd just need to keep a counter too
05:59:27 <GregorR-L> $ time ../report ../bfjoust ../cache *.bfjoust > report_ais.txt
05:59:27 <GregorR-L> $ time ../report ../egojoust ../cache *.bfjoust > report_ego.txt
05:59:30 <GregorR-L> $ diff report_ais.txt report_ego.txt
06:00:22 <GregorR-L> Takes 2 seconds for egojoust to run defend8 against everything.
06:00:31 <GregorR-L> Takes ais' on the order of 10 minutes.
06:00:37 <myndzi> yeah, i think it's not very hard to in-place interpret the weirdass ({})%N syntax
06:00:57 <myndzi> a couple counters is all
06:02:22 <myndzi> and since the brackets inside it should(?) match, there's not really any crazy stuff you have to do either as far as finding where to jump to
06:03:20 <myndzi> it's just that if you hit a [ at a data point that is 0
06:03:36 <myndzi> with a matching pair on the other side of the {}
06:03:48 <myndzi> you stop counting the whole N off, and count off what you've reached
06:04:08 <myndzi> say the first [ is nonzero but the 2nd isn't
06:04:20 <myndzi> first time you hit { and increase a counter
06:04:24 <myndzi> then you start at a again
06:04:39 <myndzi> you haven't done the full 3, but now you don't need to do any more
06:04:44 <myndzi> you jump to e, then dec the counter
06:05:02 <myndzi> if ] is nonzero, you're back to the front side though, and once again you increase the counter
06:05:16 <myndzi> (but keep track of the %N counter separately -- only do this three times)
06:05:31 <myndzi> actually, that may be a bit off
06:05:50 <myndzi> yeah, it is a little off
06:05:54 <myndzi> you don't keep track of %N separately
06:05:58 <myndzi> just inc a loop counter
06:06:02 <myndzi> and if the loop counter is equal to N
06:06:06 <myndzi> then when you hit { you proceed on to c
06:06:16 <myndzi> that's simpler than it seemed
06:06:30 <myndzi> and it sounds correct to my mind, am i making any sense?
06:06:41 <myndzi> maybe i should script it up in MIRC on WINDOWS! :)
06:08:23 -!- Corun|away has changed nick to Corun.
06:09:53 <GregorR-L> (About two seconds, due to defend8)
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06:13:32 <myndzi> clarification: loop as normal; if you hit {, increase loop counter and go back to (; if loop counter = N, instead proceed on; if you hit ), decrease loop counter, go back to }; if you hit ) and loop counter is 0, proceed
06:13:52 <myndzi> when i say 'loop as normal', i am referring to [] shunting you back and forth, potentially spanning {}
06:14:19 <myndzi> don't increase loop counter if it == N and you hit {
06:14:32 <myndzi> that should allow evaluation without expansion
06:15:08 <myndzi> ought to save you potential memory problems with (ab)use of loops
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06:46:11 <GregorR-L> So, now that I've improved !bfjoust, nobody uses it :P
06:47:31 -!- zzo38 has joined.
06:47:44 <zzo38> I have some new ideas for BF Joust
06:48:06 <zzo38> including betting, input, cards, and more.
06:48:42 <GregorR-L> If you have an entirely new language in mind, write an interpreter that returns 0, 1 or 2 for a tie, left program winning or right program winning, respectively, and I'll add it to EgoBot.
06:49:58 <zzo38> It can't work because my new BF Joust rules require some interactivity after the programs have been sent in to the computer, and there can (and should) be multiple games against the same oppoent per each match
06:51:10 -!- Patashu has joined.
06:51:28 <zzo38> I can implement my new BF Joust by myself. You can play multiple matches against different opponents but you have to use one program throughout the tournament.
06:51:56 <zzo38> I was thinking of no-limit hold'em style betting
06:52:41 <zzo38> The match could consist of playing until one player runs out of chips, then you proceed to the next opponent. The ante can increase after each win/loss is determined, and starts at zero at the beginning of each match.
06:53:35 <myndzi> i was under the impression that the point of bf joust was to write programs
06:54:05 <myndzi> GregorR-L: i kinda want to write an interpreter now too, except i don't have any useful languages to do it in (as far as sending you the result goes) ;)
06:54:17 <zzo38> Well, this idea I make is a new kind of BF Joust. After you write a program you have to win a betting tournament with it. (You can write a new program after the tournament if you want to)
06:54:24 <myndzi> i've got a firm grasp in my head of how to do an expansionless interpreter now :)
06:54:44 <myndzi> GregorR-L: do you take mircscript? :P
06:54:46 <GregorR-L> For the moment, egojoust is fast enough.
06:54:51 <myndzi> maybe i should learn c eh
06:54:56 <myndzi> yeah, it's fast, but it could run into memory problems
06:54:57 <GregorR-L> myndzi: I would recommend Pythong.
06:55:04 <myndzi> if someone is an asshole or comes up with some retarded idea
06:55:28 <Patashu> what are pythong's language features?
06:55:30 <myndzi> i might try perl, i started to learn that once
06:55:38 <zzo38> The deck of cards can change between tournaments, but the deck of cards is known way in advance before you have to write the program.
06:56:11 <myndzi> zzo38: wait .. what? what does a deck of cards have to do with brainfuck
06:56:15 <zzo38> Perl is OK, if you like it. And I like Forth programming.
06:56:17 <myndzi> unless you're trying to fuck my brain right now
06:56:49 <zzo38> The deck of cards consists of a low number of cards (if there are too many, it becomes too hard to guess your opponent's cards) and are used during the betting process.
06:56:52 <GregorR-L> Patashu: I replaced the bfjoust interpreter in EgoBot, egojoust is ultrafasssssst.
06:57:17 <myndzi> thank goodness no more waiting for that damned defend8
06:57:40 <GregorR-L> Though I didn't remove it because it's doing well.
06:57:52 <myndzi> what's the url to the dir again?
06:57:59 <Patashu> I love how lazy counters defends
06:58:01 <myndzi> is creep still winning?
06:58:37 <Patashu> hmm, I was going to try and tweak lazy, so...
06:58:38 <myndzi> when no further programs have been submitted o_O
06:58:45 <Patashu> !bfjoust lazy >+>->++>-->--->+++>>>((-.)*128>)*21
06:58:46 <myndzi> oh right, private submissions still
06:58:47 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_lazy: 42.0
06:59:10 <zzo38> One of my rules is that , takes input from opponent's . command, unless there isn't any in which case the input is random
06:59:17 <myndzi> yeah, this scoring system is wack
06:59:37 <myndzi> 4 losses vs 4 losses but 2 places difference :\
06:59:45 <Patashu> !bfjoust lazy >+>->++>-->--->+++>+>->((-.)*128>)*21
06:59:47 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_lazy: 65.4
06:59:49 <GregorR-L> Hrm, the score here didn't correspond to the score from report.txt ...
07:00:04 <myndzi> it spits the old score most of the time
07:00:07 <zzo38> You might consider my rules a bit insane, but I think that's OK
07:00:08 <myndzi> except, i think, with new submissions
07:00:20 <myndzi> zzo38: i don't understand a game in anything you've said so far
07:00:29 <GregorR-L> Also, the scoring system is nice :P
07:00:30 <myndzi> GregorR-L: didn't know you were working on it :)
07:01:12 <myndzi> anyway, bedtime for me
07:01:19 <myndzi> i'll see if i can take the code you shared earlier and play with it tomorrow
07:01:27 <myndzi> ..wait, where's my c compiler!? (just kidding! ;)
07:01:29 <Patashu> !bfjoust lazy >(+)*5>(-)*5>(+)*5>(-)*5>(-)*5>(+)*5>(+)*5>(-)*5>((-.)*128>)*21
07:01:32 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_lazy: 75.3
07:01:44 <zzo38> My thing is basically like BF Joust but with interactive play. You still have to write the program before the entire tournament and most of the normal rules are followed.
07:01:48 <GregorR-L> myndzi: Use the code in the egobot hg
07:01:49 <EgoBot> EgoBot is a bot for running programs in esoteric programming languages. If you'd like to add support for your language to EgoBot, check out the source via mercurial at https://codu.org/projects/egobot/hg/
07:01:55 <Patashu> I've topped the hill in like five minutes
07:01:57 <zzo38> Also see [[Talk:BF_Joust]] for some of the ideas I wrote on the wiki
07:02:00 <myndzi> zzo38: so far you've said something weird about cards and swapping input
07:02:04 <myndzi> but you haven't said anything about how to win
07:02:32 <Patashu> !bfjoust lazy >(+)*5>(-)*5>(+)*5>(-)*5>(-)*5>(+)*5>(+)*5>(-)*5>((-.)*64>)*21
07:02:33 <zzo38> And the amount you bet can affect subsequent input from input commands.
07:02:36 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_lazy: 0.0
07:02:45 <Patashu> !bfjoust lazy >(+)*5>(-)*5>(+)*5>(-)*5>(-)*5>(+)*5>(+)*5>(-)*5>((-.)*128>)*21
07:02:45 <myndzi> Patashu: congrats, but don't let it go to your head ;)
07:02:49 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_lazy: 75.3
07:02:56 <zzo38> You win either by the normal BF Joust way of winning, or if one player folds the other player wins.
07:03:27 <myndzi> what happens if you increment a card+?
07:03:37 <GregorR-L> You're claiming (bluffing?) that your program is superawesome.
07:03:44 <GregorR-L> And the other person folds, rather than losing points.
07:04:03 <zzo38> A special set of cards for slightly affecting things in the game. You can bet only after several cycles have passed so you can't use cards on every cycle either.
07:04:23 <zzo38> You can't increment a card.
07:04:36 <GregorR-L> OK, I sort of understand, it's not the worst idea I've ever heard, but I'd like to see the implementation first :P
07:04:38 <myndzi> now you've tied the pieces together a little
07:04:56 <Patashu> !bfjoust lazy >(+)*5>(-)*5>(+)*5>(-)*5>(-)*5>(+)*5>(+)*5>(-)*5(>(-.)*128)*20(-)*256(+)*256
07:05:00 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_lazy: 65.4
07:05:22 <Patashu> !bfjoust lazy >(+)*5>(-)*5>(+)*5>(-)*5>(-)*5>(+)*5>(+)*5>(-)*5>((-.)*128>)*21
07:05:23 <myndzi> thing is, there's 384000 cycles
07:05:25 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_lazy: 75.3
07:05:34 <myndzi> and some games could be over quickly or could take a long time
07:05:45 <GregorR-L> myndzi: Actually, 100000 in ais' and mine.
07:05:46 <myndzi> when do you "bet" and when do you "play"? how do you manage how many cycles between these actions?
07:05:54 <myndzi> GregorR-L: good to know
07:06:00 <Patashu> what would the worst case be then?
07:06:05 <Patashu> how hard can you make a program on the interpreter?
07:06:21 <myndzi> currently? use a lot of ({}) expansions until it breaks
07:06:36 <zzo38> myndzi: I haven't worked out all the details yet. But I will work them out (and take suggestions into consideration also).
07:06:36 <myndzi> i think he has a limited size buffer, but i don't have the code up now
07:06:54 <myndzi> it expands ({}) into a fixed buffer space
07:07:00 <GregorR-L> The buffer is "limited" to several hundred megs :P
07:07:02 <myndzi> so using a big number should be sufficient to reach the limit
07:07:14 <myndzi> i wasn't sure .. i saw a reference to "somenumber" earlier
07:07:18 <myndzi> and thought it might be an arbitrary limit
07:07:30 <myndzi> so then if you nest some expansions you could probably take up an exponential amount of ram (and time)
07:07:31 <GregorR-L> myndzi: No, I was simplifying to give an example on #esoteric.
07:07:47 <myndzi> but the presence of the number there, i wasn't sure if it was a constant or not
07:07:53 <GregorR-L> I'm using my sweet buffer.h buffers.
07:08:06 <zzo38> Also whether a program is doing better than the opponent can change at times (based on any random factors that might occur) so you have to change your bet too, like in poker. But in general, one program beats another, but you also have to know how to bet with the program you wrote and use cards on it effectively.
07:08:26 <myndzi> the ability to modify the playing field with cards is very tricky
07:08:38 <myndzi> it could be completely overpowered (like choosing when to 'unstick' a loop such as []
07:08:56 <myndzi> and i'm not so certain it is really knowable which program is doing better until one wins
07:09:02 <zzo38> Yes, but cards are also few and not used often. You know all the cards that exist before you even write the program and enter the tournament!
07:09:14 <myndzi> i'm just pointing out things to consider
07:09:19 <myndzi> primarily, things that might make it not work
07:09:27 <myndzi> since that's how i seem to think about things :P
07:09:50 <myndzi> also, if you are somehow giving "status updates", consider how you will present that information
07:10:35 <myndzi> arg i was going to bed
07:10:37 <zzo38> It is not completely overpowered, because the number of cards you get is limited and random (and you know that if you have a card, the opponent can't have it), and you also play multiple runs per match, so depending on the bet amounts it could be replayed over and over again
07:10:41 * myndzi clicks off the monitor
07:11:02 <Patashu> !bfjoust waiter (+)*10000(-)*10000(>)*9((-.)*128>)*21
07:11:03 <myndzi> i guess overpowered was poor word choice
07:11:06 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_waiter: 60.5
07:11:26 <myndzi> i meant to say that it seems difficult to strike an oppropriate balance
07:11:33 <myndzi> the things you can affect in the game are either trivial or drastic
07:11:54 <myndzi> appropriate* (heh, dvorak typos)
07:12:24 <myndzi> this is directly related to the ambiguity of how "good" a program is currently doing
07:12:44 <zzo38> They can be trivial or drastic depending on circumstances and on the cards. And also on the program you have written before the tournament (you know what cards exist before the tournament, so you can use that as a basis to write your program if you want to)
07:13:09 <myndzi> no, i mean what you want from the card is something between trivial and drastic... and i don't see any cards you can design that way
07:13:20 <Patashu> on the turn that my opponent makes that cell 0
07:13:23 <myndzi> incrementing or decrementing the data in a cell does little
07:13:25 <Patashu> how many turns later will I execute another command?
07:13:37 <myndzi> changing the pointer can either do pretty much nothing or drastically affect the outcome
07:13:48 <zzo38> And they can be both trivial and drastic. Cards can be adjusted between tournaments by the tournament organizers
07:14:00 <Patashu> so if I did >[]< I'd get to my flag one turn later than the enemy
07:14:01 <myndzi> i think you are missing my point
07:14:11 <myndzi> but it wouldn't really help you much
07:14:21 <myndzi> assuming the enemy is running a zeroing loop
07:14:36 <Patashu> parity is important if I want to land them on exactly zero and trick them into going further isn't it?
07:14:39 <myndzi> zzo38: trivial cards kinda make the point of the cards not useful, and so do drastic cards
07:15:05 <myndzi> because it takes the game away from the code (of course, if that's what you want, sure.. i guess.. but then it's a card game)
07:15:18 <myndzi> but you can't really do that
07:15:29 <myndzi> this is what my timing comment on the wiki was about
07:15:33 <zzo38> It doesn't take the game away from the code, the code is still an important part. But it isn't everything.
07:15:37 <myndzi> say you are on your flag, and you know their pointer is on your flag
07:15:49 <myndzi> zzo38: design some cards that are neither useless nor overpowered and then say that
07:15:52 <Patashu> I'll assume they're using a [+] or [-] immediately say
07:16:02 <myndzi> Patashu: sure, but if you want them to run past you, the pointer has to hit 0
07:16:07 <Patashu> so I want to land them on exactly 0. if I'm on the wrong parity it'll go 1, -1
07:16:12 <myndzi> however, you can't wait until it's 0 and then inc or dec it
07:16:24 <myndzi> because it'll take 2 cycles
07:16:25 <Patashu> because it might be the wrong direction
07:16:45 <myndzi> there is too much potential variance to try and do it based on timing
07:16:48 <myndzi> it'd be trivial to defeat
07:16:56 <zzo38> The information given at betting time could consist of: Distance between your flag and your pointer; distance between your flag and opponent's pointer; value at your pointer; next command to be executed in your program; next command to be executed in opponent's program. (You only know the next command, not the position of the command)
07:17:02 <myndzi> (for example, if you assume they are using something like [-] and time it so that falls through,
07:17:08 <Patashu> they could add a . before it
07:17:13 <myndzi> code with something like -. will break that)
07:17:22 <myndzi> or -- or any number of things
07:17:26 <Patashu> hmm. well, I'll think on it more then
07:17:29 <Patashu> !bfjoust waiter ((+)*10000(-)*10000)*2(>)*9((-.)*128>)*21
07:17:32 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_waiter: 75.9
07:17:35 <zzo38> And the number of cycles between bets could be equal to the number of cells on the tape (the number of cells is reset to randomly before each match).
07:17:55 <myndzi> zzo38: doesn't say anything about cards
07:18:36 <myndzi> those are good bits of information for betting purposes (with knowledge of the code)
07:18:38 <zzo38> Well, of course you also know what cards you hold and the number of cards the opponent holds, and also the number of chips held by each player and in the pot
07:18:48 <myndzi> 'course with knowledge of the code, distance often doesn't seem that it will matter
07:19:04 <Patashu> !bfjoust waiter ((+)*10000(-)*10000)*2(+-)*5000(-+)*5000(+--)*2000(-++)*2000(>)*9((-.)*128>)*21
07:19:07 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_waiter: 75.9
07:19:13 <myndzi> zzo38: again, design a useful card that doesn't make it either a card game or make cards useless
07:19:33 <zzo38> You cannot look at the opponent's program however but you can learn about it after a few runs you have seen its behaviour so you know it better than at the start of the match
07:20:02 <myndzi> and the programs can't change, which means the results often won't change
07:20:12 <myndzi> PIKACHU, I CHOOSE YOU! :)
07:20:26 <zzo38> Well, some cards can adjust the programs slightly.
07:20:36 <zzo38> Like by inserting commands and things
07:21:04 <myndzi> it'd be almost impossible to make that make a "small" change to a program
07:21:25 <myndzi> consider "[]" .. insert anything into that and it will drastically and immediately change your program
07:21:40 <Patashu> random mutation severly breaks programs
07:21:44 <Patashu> in any language that isn't DNA :)
07:21:58 <zzo38> Of course you are restricted to how and where you can adjust the program with a particular card, and whose program you adjust
07:22:13 <myndzi> you can't blacklist all "good combos"
07:22:22 <Patashu> no, nevermind - I was going to suggest an esolang that handled random mutation well, but it would just be incredibly redundant then
07:22:30 <myndzi> so "where" can't be dependent on the contents of the code
07:22:38 <zzo38> And the program would reset to its original state before each run of the program
07:23:06 <myndzi> whatever, i want to sleep not argue, i honestly wish you luck but i won't hold my breath just yet :P
07:23:29 <zzo38> The command could be inserted immediately before the command to execute next (of course you don't have much control over when you have a chance to play a card and make bets)
07:23:31 <myndzi> it is an intriguing idea, but i think what you want is approaching pokemon with code
07:23:44 <myndzi> which could be interesting, but it is not likely to end up anything like BF joust
07:23:44 <Patashu> it could be interesting to have a 'race' to crack the opponent's program before they crack yours. before each match you could insert an extra instruction at an index into your opponent's program (you don't know what), and they get to insert one into yours. fight, see who wins, repeat with another extra instruction
07:23:52 <Patashu> and make it say best after 7
07:24:08 <Asztal> I made a befunge variant with agents that roamed about, randomly mutating the code... it wasn't as interesting as I thought :(
07:24:24 <Patashu> you don't get enough information and you could make severely bloated programs that you can't alter the behaviour of readily
07:24:26 <zzo38> It isn't intended to be pokemon. (For pokemon games I have PocketMonsterIRC)
07:24:48 <myndzi> obviously our thought processes are not compatible :P
07:24:59 <myndzi> i don't mean pokemon as in little pets that have special powers
07:25:07 <Patashu> Asztal: It might be more interesting if you had a program that needed to approximate certain tasks, rather than do something specifically every single time
07:25:22 <Patashu> Like what a bfjoust program does, as opposed to the programs a bank uses
07:25:27 <zzo38> Ya, my thought processes are Forth
07:25:29 <myndzi> i mean two player versus mode with periodic decisions being made to affect the outcome
07:25:41 <myndzi> with, probably, some mechanism for "swapping out" your current warrior
07:25:50 <myndzi> (any modifications made to it can be made to have this effect)
07:26:45 <zzo38> myndzi: Your ideas are also good ideas! (But it is a separate thing from mine)
07:27:50 <zzo38> I do like your ideas too. But I also like my ideas too, as two separate kind of games!
07:28:28 <myndzi> i'm not proposing ideas
07:28:51 <myndzi> i'm trying to fit what you are telling me into some sort of balanced and useful context and pokemon is about the best i can arrive at
07:29:13 <GregorR-L> BF Poker: Every round, everybody is dealt, say, 15 characters. They trade and bet as in poker, then they're all ran as a hill and the pot is divided up by score.
07:29:26 <myndzi> that is to say, i can't think of any way that your use of "cards", aside from being used in those kinds of ways, could possibly be useful and also balanced
07:29:36 <Patashu> having to construct programs in BF or a BF-like languages from a limited pool sounds interesting
07:29:46 <myndzi> now that is intriguing
07:30:08 <Patashu> you'd need to make sure (whatever the goal is) is always accomplishable though
07:30:19 <myndzi> maybe i used not quite the right term
07:30:26 <zzo38> All these ideas are good ideas for variants of games similar to BF Joust.
07:30:38 <Patashu> if it was BFJoust without any alterations, for instance, you'd need at least 29 >s
07:30:44 <myndzi> in collectible card games and stuff there is a variation of play where you are given a starter and some booster packs and you have to make do with what you get
07:30:45 <Patashu> so some other goal would be good
07:30:59 <GregorR-L> Patashu: I was assuming something like ais' BF Joust, with ()s.
07:31:21 <myndzi> do you get parens in matched pairs? ;)
07:31:26 <myndzi> what about decimal digits? hehe
07:31:37 <myndzi> DAMMIT i got three ()'s but no *!
07:31:42 <GregorR-L> myndzi: If you're lucky. Idonno, you can use any number? Maybe too powerful.
07:31:55 <myndzi> i think you'd have to deal out ALL characters
07:32:08 <myndzi> bf may not be suitable for this either
07:32:16 <myndzi> but it's amusing to consider
07:32:20 <Patashu> you could generalize it to any tokenized language
07:32:23 <myndzi> you might do statistical analysis on the current warriors
07:32:28 <myndzi> see how widely they vary
07:32:39 <Patashu> you could do it in say, golfscript
07:32:44 <Patashu> and the challenge is 'do something the judges find neat'
07:33:05 <Patashu> esolang based around using as few characters as possible to do things
07:33:19 <zzo38> (Or flogscript if that's the variant of golfscript you happen to prefer)
07:33:43 <Patashu> anything that's terse enough for arbitrary or near arbitrary token combinations to make sense
07:34:13 <myndzi> i think in this case (bf joust), the goal is too specific
07:34:34 <myndzi> that has a lot mor epotential i think
07:34:41 <myndzi> for the random character thing i mean
07:35:22 <myndzi> i don't know how you could give enough to do something with but not enough to leave it totally open ended
07:35:32 <zzo38> I like FlogScript because a program to delete duplicate lines of input is three characters long
07:35:51 <GregorR-L> I think 30 characters is probably about right.
07:35:52 <zzo38> To delete the first line of input, also three character long.
07:36:20 <myndzi> GregorR-L: then it comes down to, what can be written in 30 characters? a certain set of programs
07:36:20 <zzo38> And also three characters long program to reverse the order of the lines input
07:36:39 <myndzi> which one you right will be pretty much chosen by what you get, unless they use the same sort of characters
07:36:43 <GregorR-L> myndzi: But you're given the 30 characters, and plenty of them aren't useful. It's a mix of what can be done, and what you're given.
07:36:48 <zzo38> The "judge Janken" in FlogScript is exactly 30 characters long.
07:37:05 <GregorR-L> I think making the characters have different probabilities is important too.
07:37:15 <Patashu> and force ()s etc to be matched
07:37:32 <Patashu> so instead of getting a ( and ) you get a ()
07:37:39 <GregorR-L> Yeah, and make it appropriately rare.
07:37:46 <myndzi> it might be that brainfuck requires so many characters to get certain things done that..
07:38:08 <myndzi> if you want those things doable at all, you necessarily relinquish restrictions on certain other things
07:38:17 <myndzi> (that take much less to get done)
07:38:22 <Patashu> or just use a higher-level character-based language?
07:39:17 <myndzi> so, you can't have the takes-many-characters things possible, otherwise the class of takes-few-characters things is pretty much open ended
07:39:25 <myndzi> requiring you to restrict it to that class of takes-few-characters things
07:39:31 <myndzi> and at that point, randomness takes a huge toll too
07:39:51 <Patashu> so we have this Awesome Idea
07:39:54 <myndzi> i always sound like i'm being negative
07:39:58 <Patashu> it's so awesome but we don't know how to do it
07:40:04 <zzo38> Try FlogScript if you want to achieve things in only a few characters
07:40:20 <Patashu> flogscript: it slices, it dices, it cuts and cubes
07:40:21 <myndzi> ^ that may be a suitable answer, but i don't know anything about what he's talking about
07:41:32 <zzo38> O. See the wiki page about [[FlogScript]] for some examples. I have done the anarchy golf challenges by myself and posted the codes on the wiki (because anarchy golf doesn't have FlogScript)
07:41:34 <myndzi> i suspect that perhaps, given the right goal, brainfuck and a small set of random characters might be surprisingly flexible
07:41:50 <myndzi> but i'm thinking like ~10 characters or something, otherwise you start to get lots of duplicates that can be used for something useful
07:41:54 <myndzi> what would the goal be? :\
07:42:05 <zzo38> myndzi: Probably with the right goal that might be correct. But it tells to wait see what it is.
07:42:47 <myndzi> but i got bogged down wondering if a brainfuck quine is even possible
07:43:06 <zzo38> A brainfuck quine is possible. Not in only ten characters though!
07:43:09 <Patashu> http://esoteric.sange.fi/brainfuck/bf-source/quine/ ?
07:43:30 <myndzi> i'm sure it is, after all it's turing-complete rite?
07:43:40 <myndzi> i was just trying to think "how?!"
07:44:12 <Patashu> anything you can do in a higher level language you can do in brainfuck as well
07:44:18 <Patashu> just in a muuuch lengthier way
07:44:39 <zzo38> And there are compilers into brainfuck, such as [[BrainClub]]
07:44:48 <myndzi> ah! here's the idea i was thinking of
07:44:57 <myndzi> i'm a little slow 'cause i'm tired now
07:45:03 <myndzi> but you ever see those math puzzles that are like
07:45:21 <myndzi> "using the numbers 2 3 4 5 and 6, with any combination of operators, give an expression that evaluates to 23"?
07:45:40 <myndzi> supply a random collection of +s, -s, <s, and >s
07:45:53 <myndzi> allow the user to place [] (or () etc maybe even) wherever they want
07:45:59 <myndzi> but require them to use all the +s and -s etc
07:46:12 <myndzi> (of course, there's always the trivial case of putting trash at the end, so what can be done about that?)
07:46:46 <Patashu> require the last command to be a . ?
07:47:04 <myndzi> but there's no guarantee the program ever reaches that point
07:47:09 <myndzi> perhaps require the program to terminate
07:47:21 <myndzi> for example, bf joust could be modified thusly:
07:47:27 <myndzi> no "lose if you run off the tape" rule
07:47:37 <myndzi> you must set their flag to 0 and terminate
07:47:48 <GregorR-L> I think you can provide a lot of characters if you make the probabilities right.
07:48:03 <GregorR-L> 30, but in all likelihood 20 of them will be +'s and -'s.
07:48:03 <myndzi> so the task then becomes
07:48:14 <myndzi> to arrange the +-<> set to accomplish your task
07:48:20 <myndzi> by placement of those and []
07:48:43 <myndzi> i don't think it'd work to force them to use a pre-supplied string of +-<> :P
07:48:48 <zzo38> Another idea: You have a brainfuck program without brackets, the puzzle is that you must then add the brackets to make a certain output.
07:48:48 <myndzi> but maybe you supply a random string of +-
07:48:57 <myndzi> and the person has to use them to accomplish the goal
07:49:38 <myndzi> so like +-++++-------++----++-+---++++, but you add <> [] wherever you want
07:49:40 <zzo38> Of course this puzzle I made is only a one player game, you aren't competing against anyone
07:49:58 <myndzi> and maybe use a restricted value set, instead of 256 values, 16
07:50:24 <myndzi> i don't know if that's even solvable quite yet but i think with enough <>s it probably is
07:51:12 <myndzi> the placing-brackets problem reminds me of some puzzle but i can't put my finger on it
07:51:17 -!- zzo38 has quit ("bed (will read logs)").
07:51:27 <myndzi> he's got the right idea, lol
07:51:42 <myndzi> i don't think i've /quit properly in years
07:52:18 <GregorR-L> So have we approached an actual game here? :P
07:52:42 <Patashu> we've got a lot of ideas going
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08:20:56 <GregorR-L> The more I think about it, the less specific I get.
08:26:50 <GregorR-L> Now I'm thinking something like FYB without the loops, you insert the loops.
08:26:56 <GregorR-L> But I'd like to have a poker-esque trade phase.
08:26:59 -!- Gracenotes has quit (Read error: 54 (Connection reset by peer)).
08:27:56 <GregorR-L> (And I can't think of how to do that with the given-program add-brackets idea)
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08:29:46 <GregorR-L> Also, FYB requires you do some fairly specific things to place a bomb, and that's counterproductive.
08:36:57 <GregorR-L> The goal really buggers up everything :P
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08:45:41 <GregorR-L> Here's a thought: You're given some numbers and operators, and you have to form them into a RPN "program". The goal is to have the most prime factors.
08:46:22 <Patashu> or some other arbitrary criteria?
08:46:36 <GregorR-L> Sure, that's an example crieteria.
08:47:05 <GregorR-L> That would be fekking difficult :)
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08:48:19 <Patashu> just have mathematica open while you work
08:48:52 <GregorR-L> Anyway, good basic idea? Maybe add functions for giggles?
08:49:09 <Patashu> maybe one operator is always a randomly generated functino
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08:54:55 <lereah_> How do I put on a little hat on a character in LaTeX?
08:56:02 <oerjan> also there was \widehat{} for putting it on something huge :)
08:56:21 <oerjan> (i'm more sure of the latter than the former)
08:58:16 <oerjan> <GregorR-L> My execution trace is >+++++++++>--------->+++++++++>--------->>>>>[---[+]]>[---[+]+++++++++>--------->+++++++++>--------->>>>>[>[>[---[+]+++++++++>--------->+++++++++>--------->>
08:58:35 <oerjan> that looks wrong for (>(+{>}-)%9)*2(>)*5([---[+]]>)*21
08:58:37 <lereah_> But I just need a regular sized hat
08:58:57 <oerjan> lereah_: yeah \widehat expands as needed i think
08:59:55 <oerjan> GregorR-L: btw i was thinking you could do ()* and ({})* without expansion by keeping a counter for each () pair (which may be allocated globally or in a stack manner)
09:00:29 <GregorR-L> RPokerN idea: Every player has chips, they start with 15. They can deal themselves into a round, and are given 15 numbers or operators. The chances are: 1/2 number, 1/2 operator. Of numbers, the probability is 15% 1, (1-15%)*15% 2, etc etc up to maybe 16. The operators are *, +, - and /. The probabilities are 36% /, 27% +, 27% -, 10% *.
09:00:31 <oerjan> basically ( sets the counter initially, { decrements and jumps back unless zero, etc.
09:01:03 <GregorR-L> It costs 1 chip to be dealt in. At this point players are given an opportunity to ante up or fold, as in poker.
09:01:26 <oerjan> } does nothing, ) increments and jumps back to } unless equal to target value
09:01:45 <GregorR-L> Once everybody has seen the bet and not raised, the programs are won and the pot is divided by who did the "best".
09:01:58 <oerjan> and with this, [] works automatically
09:02:28 <oerjan> (for pure (), ) decrements instead of incrementing)
09:02:30 <Patashu> what if you have [] spread across different kinds of (){}s?
09:03:03 <oerjan> and it should still be fast in C
09:03:34 <Patashu> btw gregorR-L, why not determine the distribution of number tokens using Benford's law? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Benford%27s_law
09:03:46 <Patashu> I guess it doesn't particularly matter though
09:03:59 <GregorR-L> I was thinking e.g. '*' is too useful for highest-primes.
09:04:25 <Patashu> duplicate all your prime factors
09:06:21 <Patashu> would be to be given a set of numbers and usable operators
09:06:28 <Patashu> and to make it equal a number given upfront
09:06:31 <Patashu> first person to answer wins
09:08:07 <oerjan> GregorR-L: of course i now find myndzi already said that, as well
09:10:28 <oerjan> GregorR-L: well, we have increments and decrements reversed :D
09:10:59 <oerjan> but that's not important, you don't get to check only for 0 in either option
09:12:17 <Patashu> every single program on the hill that isn't mine is on exactly -1 overall
09:12:27 <Patashu> I think it's because the hill is evenly split between two types of program
09:12:34 <Patashu> defends and...non-defends :P
09:13:29 <Patashu> defend6 and defend6aparody even get exactly the same matchups
09:15:59 <oerjan> Patashu: well ais523 claims it's paper/rock/scissors so someone should add some of whatever is the third type
09:16:50 <oerjan> unless this has happened because someone found something to break the p/r/s balance
09:17:16 <GregorR-L> !bfjoust fooled_again [>[-(.)*64]-]
09:17:16 <Patashu> how well a program does on the hill is determined by how many programs that counter it are present
09:17:20 <EgoBot> Score for GregorR-L_fooled_again: 9.0
09:17:21 <Patashu> or rather how powerful the programs it kills are
09:18:06 <oerjan> i suppose if someone flooded it with ... attackers, is that it, then the fools could have been wiped out
09:18:15 <oerjan> and then the defenders remain at the top
09:18:33 <oerjan> (well, one defender, by what you said)
09:18:51 <Patashu> anything that can beat both lazy and waiter will soar right to the top
09:18:57 <oerjan> oh you said even split
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09:19:58 <oerjan> so, your program breaks the balance by beating two types?
09:20:02 <Patashu> the point system values programs that counter the most valued programs which is determined by countering the most valued programs...
09:20:23 <Patashu> value isn't constant, it's determined by the hill's makeup at that point in time
09:20:32 <Patashu> since programs aren't just better and worse, they also have matchups
09:20:49 <Patashu> if the hill never kicked members off, it would give a much better representation
09:20:53 <Patashu> with roughly equal programs of all kinds at all times
09:20:58 <oerjan> i had a crazy idea that maybe the hill could be divided into separate ecosystems...
09:21:09 <GregorR-L> I could up the limit if people'd like.
09:21:30 <oerjan> with only rare interaction, so that they could evolve into different balances
09:21:58 <Patashu> are there any disadvantages to having large hills
09:21:58 <AnMaster> (and I haven't yet checked what this discussion was about, bbl too)
09:22:04 <Patashu> besides the cost of running bigger matchups?
09:22:07 <GregorR-L> Patashu: Takes longer to run a new program.
09:22:14 <Patashu> and it's p. fast right now
09:22:58 <oerjan> or, you could have divisions
09:23:09 <oerjan> like with sports teams
09:23:41 <oerjan> a number of lower hills whose members compete to get on the top hill
09:24:09 <Patashu> if you have a program on top of the hill
09:24:19 <Patashu> you can weaken it by introducing something that counters it but nothing else
09:24:28 <Patashu> and it'll only be on the top as long as the first program remains
09:24:41 <Patashu> could you drag down a winner like that?
09:25:39 <Patashu> !bfjoust rushpolarity >(+)*10>(-)*10>-->++(>)*5((+)*8[+[-]]+.--.++>(-)*8[-[+]]+.--.++>)*11
09:25:43 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_rushpolarity: 64.0
09:25:44 <Patashu> !bfjoust matador >-[]<(++-)*1000.(--+)*1000(>)*9(>[+][-])*21
09:25:48 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_matador: 14.5
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09:27:42 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_nop: 6.6
09:28:18 <Patashu> oh, it didn't tie anything
09:28:44 <GregorR-L> I'm ... not sure why its score is non-zero ...
09:28:51 <EgoBot> Score for GregorR-L_really_nop: 8.3
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09:32:00 <Patashu> !bfjoust simple (>)*9([-]>)*20[[-][+]]
09:32:04 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_simple: 32.1
09:32:25 <Patashu> the formatting breaks for x.y scores
09:37:58 <GregorR-L> Heh, I added a bunch of impomatic's back, and now ehird_defend8 is at the top :P
09:38:17 <GregorR-L> lazy and waiter are still doing pretty well though.
09:38:30 <GregorR-L> I've been trying to think of a fixed point algo for score, but nothing comes to mind.
09:40:05 <Patashu> the bigger the hill is the more accurate it ought to be
09:40:14 <Patashu> there isn't really an objective metric of how good a program is
09:41:59 <GregorR-L> Yeah, and I like my score, it would just be tastier if it was a fixed point algo :P
09:42:57 <Patashu> (wins-losses)/number of characters in source
09:43:42 <Patashu> down with defend#s once and for all
09:45:31 <Patashu> but yeah if you want to prune your hill a different way you could give more points to fast wins/slow wins/short programs/number of loops executed?
09:45:59 <GregorR-L> There's all sorts of score possibilities.
09:58:02 <Deewiant> !bfjoust train (>-)*8>>+[[-][-]>+]
09:58:06 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_train: 32.7
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10:08:41 <Asztal> !bfjoust boring (++--+-++--)*100000
10:08:45 <EgoBot> Score for Asztal_boring: 44.0
10:10:48 <Patashu> how is it that you can win without attacking your opponent's flag?
10:11:16 <Deewiant> The other program runs off the tape
10:11:28 <Asztal> yes, your train seems to do that
10:11:34 <Patashu> what is the win condition exactly?
10:11:40 <Deewiant> http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust
10:12:29 <GregorR-L> Win conditions: 1) Your program parses and the other doesn't. 2) Your program doesn't run off the tape and the other does. 3) The other program's flag remains 0 for two turns.
10:12:56 <Patashu> killing yourself isn't noping forever, it's losing
10:13:02 <Patashu> so . is a stronger program than <
10:13:17 <EgoBot> Score for GregorR-L_simpleton: 9.0
10:13:28 <Deewiant> !bfjoust boring-loop [++--+-++--]
10:13:31 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_boring-loop: 31.0
10:14:39 <Patashu> I have no permission to access report.txt
10:14:59 <Patashu> also it's not storing all the programs
10:15:19 <Deewiant> It was supposed to be the best 10
10:15:53 <GregorR-L> I accidentally wonked out that report.c X_X
10:16:03 <GregorR-L> This is what I get for making changes on the server instead of my local hg repo.
10:17:38 <GregorR-L> Sorry, you'll have to readd those.
10:17:46 <EgoBot> Score for GregorR-L_simpleton: 11.5
10:18:06 <Deewiant> !bfjoust train (>-)*8>>+[[-][-]>+]
10:18:10 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_train: 34.6
10:18:11 <Deewiant> !bfjoust boring-loop [++--+-++--]
10:18:15 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_boring-loop: 23.3
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10:20:03 <GregorR-L> The server's repo is in a bad state, gimme a minute to fix.
10:20:15 <Asztal> boring-loop has quite a defeatist attitude :)
10:21:09 <Deewiant> !bfjoust boring-loop2 >+[<++--+-++-->--]
10:21:27 <Deewiant> Well, that's a bit less defeatist
10:21:35 <Deewiant> Although not necessarily as effective :-P
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10:22:03 <Asztal> actually, I was thinking that it would just stop once someone got the flag to 0, but it should only do that 1 in 10 times
10:22:11 <Deewiant> !bfjoust boring-loop2 >+[<++--+-++-->--]
10:22:16 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_boring-loop2: 19.8
10:22:17 <Patashu> !bfjoust juggernaut +(>(-)*128)*29
10:22:21 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_juggernaut: 8.9
10:22:44 <Patashu> !bfjoust juggernaut +(>(-)*128.-.-.+++)*29
10:22:48 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_juggernaut: 44.2
10:22:50 <Deewiant> You'll be running off the end often
10:23:25 <Patashu> !bfjoust juggernaut +(>(-)*128.-.-.+++.+.-)*29
10:23:29 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_juggernaut: 38.2
10:23:35 <Patashu> !bfjoust juggernaut +(>(-)*128.-.-.++)*29
10:23:39 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_juggernaut: 42.4
10:23:49 <Patashu> !bfjoust juggernaut +(>(-)*128.-.+.-.-.+.+)*29
10:23:52 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_juggernaut: 42.4
10:24:02 <Patashu> !bfjoust juggernaut +(>(-)*128.-.-.+++)*29
10:24:06 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_juggernaut: 42.4
10:24:32 <Patashu> I mean can you really write off -anything-?
10:25:09 <Patashu> I think 20 is a good number for the hill btw
10:25:17 <Patashu> any larger and it gets harder to look at the grid and make sense of it
10:25:57 <EgoBot> Score for GregorR-L_jug_or_not: 25.2
10:26:40 <Patashu> !bfjoust juggernaut +(>)*8(>(-)*128.-.-.+++)*29
10:26:44 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_juggernaut: 47.6
10:27:18 <Patashu> !bfjoust juggernaut +(>->+)*4(>(-)*128.-.-.+++)*29
10:27:21 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_juggernaut: 45.3
10:27:34 <Patashu> how can that do worse? weird
10:27:36 <EgoBot> Score for GregorR-L_jug_or_not: 15.4
10:27:45 * GregorR-L keeps looking for a magic degenerate strategy :P
10:28:02 <Patashu> !bfjoust juggernaut +(>-->++)*4(>(-)*128.-.-.+++)*29
10:28:06 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_juggernaut: 52.8
10:28:08 <GregorR-L> !bfjoust jug_or_not [[(-)*10](+)*10]
10:28:11 <EgoBot> Score for GregorR-L_jug_or_not: 22.9
10:28:29 <Deewiant> Patashu: The scores are a bit random due to the variation in tape length
10:28:50 <Asztal> does it do best of 5 or anything like that?
10:29:00 <GregorR-L> Actuall, egojoust is configured such that a run of any two programs will always produce the same result, as it "randomizes" based on their concatenated source code.
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10:29:26 <GregorR-L> I wanted the scores to be a bit more stable :P
10:29:29 <Patashu> system time not good enough for ya?
10:29:43 <Patashu> means that a trivial variation can make a match different though
10:29:55 <Patashu> and you'll be all like 'hah now I got it' when in reality it has nothing to do with bfjoust as written
10:29:58 <GregorR-L> A trivial variation, as opposed to running it three seconds later.
10:30:21 <GregorR-L> Plus, it's extremely unlikely to help you in ALL matches, it'll likely only help in one.
10:31:58 <GregorR-L> Plus, as ais said, the tape length really does rarely affect the outcome, it's more about weeding out degenerate strategies.
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10:33:17 <GregorR-L> I wish all this interest in BF Joust would give FYB a bit of attention :P
10:34:11 <GregorR-L> More complex, written four years earlier.
10:35:24 <GregorR-L> The last FYB program I wrote, logicex-2, remains undefeated.
10:36:21 <EgoBot> Supported commands: addinterp bf_txtgen bfjoust daemon daemons delinterp fyb help info kill mush userinterps 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch bct befunge befunge98 bf bf16 bf32 bf8 bfbignum boolfuck c chiqrsx9p choo cintercal clcintercal cxx dimensifuck echo echo_sh forth glass glypho google hello kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge notecho ook pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor rot13 sadol sceql sh show slashes test trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl yodawg
10:36:44 <GregorR-L> All this reporting infrastructure was made for FYB, and ported to BF Joust.
10:38:55 <Patashu> Yo dawg we heard you like strings, so we put a string "Hello world!" in your program
10:39:35 <GregorR-L> They should all be on the esolangs wiki *shrugs*
10:40:21 <Patashu> 'yo dawg' no matches, 'yodawg' no matches
10:41:06 <EgoBot> Installed user interpreters: bct bfbignum chiqrsx9p choo echo echo_sh google hello ook rot13 slashes yodawg
10:41:22 <EgoBot> unlambda (sending via DCC)
10:41:38 <EgoBot> Interpreter echo_sh deleted.
10:41:57 <GregorR-L> unlambda is the language that the userinterp is written in.
10:42:12 <GregorR-L> The interpreter itself should have been sent over DCC
10:42:27 <EgoBot> bf +++++++++++++++[>+++++++>+++++++>++++>+<<<<-]>-.++++++++++++..----.>>--.-----------..<--.++++++++..--------.<----.>--.>-.<--.<+++.--.>>+.<<++++++.>++.----.<-.>++.+++++.>++++++++++++++++.<<-.>>--.,[>[-]>[-]<<[>+>+<<-]>>>[-]++++++++[<---->-]<[[-]>+<]>-[<<[-]>+++++++[<++++++>-]<+>>[-]]<<.[-]<,]
10:42:38 <EgoBot> http://google.com/search?q=2
10:43:03 <GregorR-L> !google was just a joke, mostly, since that's how I often respond to questions :P
10:43:04 <EgoBot> http://google.com/search?q=was+just+a+joke,+mostly,+since+that's+how+I+often+respond+to+questions+:P
10:43:11 <Deewiant> Ah, but does it URL-encode properly?
10:43:14 <EgoBot> http://google.com/search?q=%20
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10:45:24 <Asztal> hmm, maybe an interesting FYB program would, instead of placing bombs in the opponent's code, place lots of :s, *then* place a bomb
10:45:47 <Patashu> you have !fyb to test what you like
10:47:08 <Asztal> I do... I suspect my attempts will fail until I have a little more experience anyway
10:47:43 <GregorR-L> You can always /msg, go to #egobot or go to #fyb for more privacy.
10:49:19 <AnMaster> GregorR-L, why not rewrite that bf program to properly url encode :D
10:50:31 <Patashu> since they're on an arbitrary bijunction
10:50:37 <AnMaster> Patashu, I would use a "to-bf" compiler
10:50:59 <Patashu> that's not really writing bf is it :)
10:51:13 <GregorR-L> I used bf_txtgen to get the http://google.com/search?q= part :P
10:51:38 <AnMaster> GregorR-L, esotope-bfc optimises it quite well btw
10:52:52 <AnMaster> GregorR, http://pastebin.com/de087ecd
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10:54:01 <AnMaster> p[5] += 7; p[4] += ((6*p[5])+1); p[5] = 0; <-- seems bad. Wouldn't p[4] += ((6*(p[5]+7))+1); p[5] = 0; be better hm
10:54:24 <AnMaster> GregorR, it still does a fairly good job IMO
10:54:33 <GregorR-L> Absolutely, I'm just being an ass :P
10:56:12 <AnMaster> GregorR, ideally it should of course turn it into a "while(!feof(stdin)) { char c = getchar(); if (c == ' ') putchar('+'); else putchar(c); }
10:56:35 <AnMaster> but that would be as close to impossible as makes no difference
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11:01:15 <AnMaster> GregorR, current state of in-between: http://pastebin.com/m311cd601 (and yes I haven
11:01:22 <AnMaster> haven't had time to work on it for some days)
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11:36:50 * AnMaster wonders if it would be possible to write a bf compiler or interpreter in make
11:39:11 <Patashu> also, does anyone here also hang out in golf.shinh.org?
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12:13:34 <lereah_> I wonder, since the O's are considered for worst case scenarios
12:13:56 <lereah_> Are programs using random things considered O(infinity)?
12:14:30 <Patashu> anything that sometimes enters an infinite loop is O(infinity) yes
12:15:02 <Patashu> no one would seriously suggest an algorithm that sometimes loops forever though XD so you never see it written out like that
12:15:55 <lereah_> It's a program that generates a random energy, but the result is only accepted if it's under the max energy
12:16:00 <lereah_> Otherwise, it loops back on
12:16:21 <lereah_> For some reason, if I do more than 47 iterations of the experience, it starts taking forever
12:16:37 <Patashu> usually there's a function to generate a random number within a range
12:16:43 <Patashu> I know python, java, visual basic has one
12:16:56 <lereah_> They're not just random numbers
12:17:03 <lereah_> They're random numbers on a particular distribution
12:17:20 <lereah_> I can't use regular random functions
12:17:47 <Patashu> is it a self-similar distribution?
12:18:14 <lereah_> Most things look like themselves
12:18:25 <Patashu> it's when you can find copies of the whole within the whole
12:18:39 <Patashu> if you can zoom in on part of the distribution curve and it looks like the whole distribution curve that would be self similar
12:18:41 <Patashu> but I'm not sure if that's helpful
12:19:43 <lereah_> It's a gaussian distribution
12:20:14 <lereah_> Code is : http://pastebin.com/m5c424cd8
12:20:55 <lereah_> So far, it takes forever, but if you change exp=48 to something less than that, it takes under a minute
12:21:32 <lereah_> I can't even find out where it's stuck, though I can guess, because root is shitty with i/o
12:21:49 <lereah_> Pretty sure it's stuck on :
12:21:51 <lereah_> {Ep = f1->Gaus(0.5*TMath::Log(E/0.2),1);
12:21:52 <lereah_> Ep = (E0)*TMath::Exp(-Ep);}
12:22:00 <Patashu> why would you need a capped gaussian distribution
12:23:50 <lereah_> Wait, maybe my condition of 0 energy is too low
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12:24:04 <lereah_> And it found an energy really too low for him to generate easily
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12:25:25 <impomatic> Has the size of the BF Joust hill been increased? It looks like it now records previous reports too
12:25:43 <Patashu> and keeps a log of reports
12:28:06 <Patashu> I'm having surprising success with my attempts
12:28:34 <Patashu> rushpolarity, lazy and waiter have all topped the hill
12:29:48 <Patashu> !bfjoust matador >-[]<(++-)*1000.(--+)*1000(>)*9(>[+][-])*21
12:29:52 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_matador: 18.5
12:30:04 <Patashu> nope it's not good as it is :)
12:37:56 <impomatic> !bfjoust spyglass (>(-)*9>(+)*9)*4(>(+)*10[-]++--[(---.)*9999])*21
12:38:00 <EgoBot> Score for impomatic_spyglass: 66.0
12:38:43 <Patashu> sets up decoys. -9+9-9+9-9+9-9+9
12:38:57 <Patashu> one forward, +1, - until zero, plus plus minus minus
12:39:03 <Patashu> loop until it's zero: ---.
12:39:58 <Patashu> it's the attack itself that's important, let's see
12:40:28 <Patashu> what does once zero, ++-- then ---. repeat until zero do that's special
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12:41:08 <Patashu> if it's continually incerasing or decreasing it
12:41:11 <Patashu> ++ will beat -- and -- will beat ++
12:42:21 <Patashu> will only trigger if the pointer is there as well
12:42:58 <impomatic> I don't think the ++-- really helps, but the [(---.)*9999] is supposed to help against programs which modify their own flag.
12:43:10 <impomatic> Unfortunately it doesn't seem to help much.
12:43:46 <impomatic> !bfjoust spyglass (>(-)*9>(+)*9)*4(>(+)*10[-])*21
12:43:49 <EgoBot> Score for impomatic_spyglass: 60.9
12:44:01 <Patashu> what about doing -+--++---+++
12:44:48 <Patashu> if you detect the cell to be 0 in the loop, when you end it a modifier will make it 1 or -1
12:45:02 <Patashu> so you can't push it back onto 0 unless they change direction
12:45:15 <Patashu> so you'd have to trick them into hitting 0 on a wraparound?
12:45:40 <impomatic> !bfjoust spyglass (>(-)*9>(+)*9)*4(>(+)*10[-]+.[((-)*6.)*9999])*21
12:45:44 <EgoBot> Score for impomatic_spyglass: 5.8
12:45:56 <impomatic> !bfjoust spyglass (>(-)*9>(+)*9)*4(>(+)*10[-]+.-[((-)*6.)*9999])*21
12:46:00 <EgoBot> Score for impomatic_spyglass: 55.7
12:46:37 <impomatic> !bfjoust spyglass (>(-)*9>(+)*9)*4(>(+)*10[-]++--[(--.)*9999])*21
12:46:40 <EgoBot> Score for impomatic_spyglass: 55.4
12:46:50 <impomatic> !bfjoust spyglass (>(-)*9>(+)*9)*4(>(+)*10[-]++--[(---.)*9999])*21
12:46:53 <EgoBot> Score for impomatic_spyglass: 64.5
12:47:48 <Patashu> with defenders as only 1/5th of the hill now
12:47:56 <Patashu> the defender-smashers are dropping
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12:49:23 <Patashu> does the size of the decoys matter?
12:49:39 <Patashu> what kind of attack would smash decoys that are +1 OR -1 for instance
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12:50:45 <impomatic> +[-] gets through +1 -1 decoys. ++[-] for -1, -2, 1, 2 decoys. Etc
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12:53:53 <Patashu> !bfjoust juggernaut +(>(-)*128.-.+.)*29
12:53:57 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_juggernaut: 42.4
12:54:12 <Patashu> !bfjoust juggernaut +(>(-)*128.--++)*29
12:54:15 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_juggernaut: 48.6
12:54:55 <Patashu> !bfjoust juggernaut +(>(-)*128.--.++)*29
12:54:58 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_juggernaut: 38.8
12:55:08 <Patashu> !bfjoust juggernaut +(>(-)*128.--++.-+\)*29
12:55:12 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_juggernaut: 46.3
12:55:26 <Patashu> !bfjoust juggernaut +(>(-)*128.--++.-.+)*29
12:55:29 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_juggernaut: 42.4
12:55:50 <Patashu> !bfjoust juggernaut +(>(-)*126.--++)*29
12:55:54 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_juggernaut: 20.6
12:55:58 <Patashu> !bfjoust juggernaut +(>(-)*128.--++)*29
12:56:02 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_juggernaut: 48.6
12:56:03 <Patashu> back to this version I guess :)
12:58:35 <impomatic> !bfjoust ignite (>(-)*11)*4(>(+)*5)*5(>(+)*9[-][(+)*128(+.)*9999])*21
12:58:39 <EgoBot> Score for impomatic_ignite: 54.8
13:00:26 <Patashu> !bfjoust lazy (>(+)*10>(-)*10)*2>(-)*10(>(+)*10)*2>(-)*10>((-.)*128>)*21
13:00:29 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_lazy: 39.1
13:01:03 <Patashu> !bfjoust lazy +>((-.)*128>)*29
13:01:07 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_lazy: 41.3
13:01:20 <Patashu> !bfjoust lazy >(+)*5>(-)*5>(+)*5>(-)*5>(-)*5>(+)*5>(+)*5>(-)*5>((-.)*128>)*21
13:01:23 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_lazy: 48.2
13:02:53 <impomatic> !bfjoust ignite (>(-)*10)*3(>(+)*4)*6(>[(+)*9[-][(+)*384(.-)*9999(.+)*9999(..+)*9999(.++)*9999(.+++)*9999]])*21
13:02:57 <EgoBot> Score for impomatic_ignite: 41.6
13:03:28 <impomatic> !bfjoust ignite (>(-)*10)*3(>(+)*4)*6(>[(+)*9[-][(+)*384(.-)*9999(.+)*9999(..+)*9999]])*21
13:03:32 <EgoBot> Score for impomatic_ignite: 53.7
13:06:28 <Patashu> !bfjoust waiter ((+++++++++.)*1024(---------.)*1024)*2(++.)*512(--.)*512(+-)*1024(>)*9((-.)*128>)*21
13:06:32 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_waiter: 17.2
13:06:41 <Patashu> !bfjoust waiter ((+)*10000(-)*10000)*2(+-)*5000(-+)*5000(+--)*2000(-++)*2000(>)*9((-.)*128>)*21
13:06:45 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_waiter: 42.9
13:06:56 <Patashu> !bfjoust waiter ((+.)*10000(-.)*10000)*2(+-)*5000(-+)*5000(+--)*2000(-++)*2000(>)*9((-.)*128>)*21
13:07:00 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_waiter: 9.4
13:07:15 <Patashu> !bfjoust waiter ((+)*10000(-)*10000)*2(+.)*5000(-.)*5000(+--)*2000(-++)*2000(>)*9((-.)*128>)*21
13:07:19 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_waiter: 14.1
13:07:38 <Patashu> !bfjoust waiter ((+)*10000(-)*10000)*2(+-)*5000(-+)*5000(+--)*2000(-++)*2000(>)*9((-.)*128>)*21
13:07:42 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_waiter: 42.9
13:07:48 <Patashu> !bfjoust waiter ((+-)*10000(-+)*10000)*2(+-)*5000(-+)*5000(+--)*2000(-++)*2000(>)*9((-.)*128>)*21
13:07:51 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_waiter: 25.2
13:08:02 <Patashu> !bfjoust waiter ((+)*10000(-)*10000)*2(+-)*5000(-+)*5000(+--)*2000(-++)*2000(>)*9((-.)*128>)*21
13:08:05 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_waiter: 42.9
13:08:15 <Patashu> sorry if this is spammy, no one's talking about anything anyways
13:08:51 <oerjan> YOU ARE RUINING OUR MEDITATION
13:09:03 -!- MizardX has quit ("Dead pixels in the sky.").
13:10:21 <Patashu> I know why +.ing or -.ing your own flag is a bad idea now XD
13:10:51 <Patashu> !bfjoust waiter ((+)*10000(-)*10000.)*2(+-)*5000(-+)*5000(+--)*2000(-++)*2000(>)*9((-.)*128>)*21
13:10:55 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_waiter: 38.0
13:11:06 <Patashu> !bfjoust waiter ((+)*10000.(-)*10000)*2(+-)*5000(-+)*5000(+--)*2000(-++)*2000(>)*9((-.)*128>)*21
13:11:10 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_waiter: 39.3
13:11:20 <Patashu> !bfjoust waiter ((+)*10000(-)*10000)*2.(+-)*5000(-+)*5000(+--)*2000(-++)*2000(>)*9((-.)*128>)*21
13:11:24 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_waiter: 39.3
13:11:33 <Patashu> !bfjoust waiter .((+)*10000(-)*10000)*2(+-)*5000(-+)*5000(+--)*2000(-++)*2000(>)*9((-.)*128>)*21
13:11:38 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_waiter: 42.9
13:12:39 <Patashu> I don't seem to be coming up with anything particularly insightful
13:12:48 -!- Gracenotes has quit ("Leaving").
13:16:07 <impomatic> Maybe you could work out what length decoys are best against the majority of programs on the hill. Should be easy by taking a quick look at their source.
13:16:19 <impomatic> Or alternatively which size decoy buster works best.
13:17:03 <Patashu> looking at programs huh? sneeaaakky
13:23:29 -!- MizardX has joined.
13:27:39 <Patashu> !bfjoust lazy >(+)*5>(-)*5>(+)*5>(-)*5>(-)*5>(+)*5>(+)*5>(-)*5(>(-.)*128)*21[-]((-)*2048(+)*2048.)*2
13:27:42 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_lazy: 48.8
13:28:56 <Patashu> !bfjoust rushpolarity >((+)*10>(-)*10>(-)*10>(+)*10)*2>((+)*8[+[-]]+.--.++>(-)*8[-[+]]+.--.++>)*11
13:28:59 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_rushpolarity: 57.1
13:30:12 <Patashu> !bfjoust rushpolarity >((+)*10>(-)*10>(-)*10>(+)*10)*2>((+)*8[+[-]]+.--.++>(-)*8[-[+]]+.--.++>)*10[+[-]]+.--.++.-.+++.---[-][+[-][-[+][+]
13:30:15 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_rushpolarity: 52.1
13:30:24 <Patashu> !bfjoust rushpolarity >((+)*10>(-)*10>(-)*10>(+)*10)*2>((+)*8[+[-]]+.--.++>(-)*8[-[+]]+.--.++>)*11
13:30:27 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_rushpolarity: 57.1
13:30:43 <Patashu> !bfjoust rushpolarity >((+)*10>(-)*10>(-)*10>(+)*10)*2>((+)*8[+[-]]+.--.++>(-)*8[-[+]]+.--.++>)*10(+)*8[+[-]]+.--.++
13:30:47 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_rushpolarity: 58.4
13:31:14 <Patashu> !bfjoust waiter ((+)*10000(-)*10000)*2(+-)*5000(-+)*5000(+--)*2000(-++)*2000(>)*9((-.)*128>)*21
13:31:18 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_waiter: 44.0
13:32:02 <Patashu> !bfjoust waiter ((+)*10000(-)*10000)*2(+-)*5000(-+)*5000(+--)*2000(-++)*2000(>)*8(>(-.)*128)*20--.++.[-][+]
13:32:06 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_waiter: 37.7
13:32:22 <Patashu> !bfjoust waiter ((+)*10000(-)*10000)*2(+-)*5000(-+)*5000(+--)*2000(-++)*2000(>)*8(>(-.)*128)*20
13:32:26 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_waiter: 44.0
13:32:44 <Patashu> !bfjoust waiter ((+)*10000(-)*10000)*2(+-)*5000(-+)*5000(+--)*2000(-++)*2000(>)*8(>(-.)*128)*20..-..+..-.+.-+--++
13:32:47 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_waiter: 34.1
13:32:54 <Patashu> why does that make it do worse rofl
13:34:09 <Patashu> !bfjoust juggernaut +(>(-)*128.--++)*29(+)*128.[-][+][-[+][+[-](-)*128.(+)*128.(-+)*256
13:34:13 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_juggernaut: 38.2
13:34:21 <Patashu> !bfjoust juggernaut +(>(-)*128.--++)*29
13:34:25 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_juggernaut: 51.0
13:34:31 <Patashu> !bfjoust juggernaut +(>(-)*128.--++)*29.(+)*128.[-][+][-[+][+[-](-)*128.(+)*128.(-+)*256
13:34:35 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_juggernaut: 38.2
13:34:39 <Patashu> !bfjoust juggernaut +(>(-)*128.--++)*29
13:34:43 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_juggernaut: 51.0
13:35:02 <Patashu> and see which program adding stuff on at the end makes it lose against *rubs brow*
13:35:59 <Patashu> beats: rushpolarity all defends shadow viper shade
13:36:02 <Patashu> !bfjoust juggernaut +(>(-)*128.--++)*29.(+)*128.[-][+][-[+][+[-](-)*128.(+)*128.(-+)*256
13:36:06 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_juggernaut: 38.2
13:36:23 <Patashu> now it loses to shadow and spyglass
13:36:28 <Patashu> !bfjoust juggernaut +(>(-)*128.--++)*29
13:36:32 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_juggernaut: 51.0
13:41:09 <Patashu> what on earth is shade doing. it is incredibly long
13:41:47 -!- myndzi has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
13:44:05 <Patashu> !bfjoust electrictrain (>-)*8>>+[[-][-]>+]
13:44:08 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_electrictrain: 27.5
13:44:54 <Deewiant> !bfjoust train2 (>--)*8>>+[[-][-]>+]
13:44:58 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_train2: 31.8
13:45:11 <Patashu> !bfjoust electrictrain (>(-)*10)*9([-][-]>+)*20
13:45:15 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_electrictrain: 22.4
13:45:35 <Patashu> !bfjoust electrictrain (>(-)*10)*9([-][-]>)*20
13:45:39 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_electrictrain: 35.7
13:45:40 <Deewiant> !bfjoust train2 (>--)*4(>++)*4>>+[[-][-]>+]
13:45:43 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_train2: 34.6
13:45:49 <Patashu> !bfjoust electrictrain (>(-)*2)*9([-][-]>)*20
13:45:52 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_electrictrain: 26.0
13:45:54 <Patashu> !bfjoust electrictrain (>(-)*3)*9([-][-]>)*20
13:45:57 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_electrictrain: 28.8
13:46:01 <Patashu> !bfjoust electrictrain (>(-)*12)*9([-][-]>)*20
13:46:05 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_electrictrain: 28.8
13:46:13 <Patashu> !bfjoust electrictrain (>(-)*10)*9([-][-][+]>)*20
13:46:17 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_electrictrain: 35.7
13:46:42 <Deewiant> !bfjoust train2 (>--)*4(>++)*4>>+([-][-][+]>)*8[[-][-]>+]
13:46:45 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_train2: 16.3
13:46:57 <Patashu> !bfjoust electrictrain (>(-)*10)*9([-][+][-]>)*20
13:47:00 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_electrictrain: 29.1
13:47:10 <Patashu> !bfjoust electrictrain (>(-)*10)*9([-][-][+]>)*20
13:47:14 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_electrictrain: 38.8
13:47:14 <Deewiant> !bfjoust train2 (>--)*4(>++)*4>>+([-][-]>)*8[[-][-]>+]
13:47:18 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_train2: 24.4
13:47:32 <Patashu> !bfjoust electrictrain (>(-)*10)*9([[-]]>)*20
13:47:37 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_electrictrain: 27.7
13:47:40 <Patashu> !bfjoust electrictrain (>(-)*10)*9([+[-]]>)*20
13:47:40 <Deewiant> !bfjoust train2 (>--)*4(>++)*4>>([-][-]>)*8[[-][-]>+]
13:47:46 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_train2: 17.5
13:47:46 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_electrictrain: 17.7
13:47:51 <Deewiant> !bfjoust train2 (>--)*4(>++)*4>>+[[-][-]>+]
13:47:55 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_train2: 31.0
13:47:57 <Patashu> !bfjoust electrictrain (>(-)*10)*9([-][-][+][+]>)*20
13:48:00 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_electrictrain: 37.1
13:48:39 <Patashu> electric trains are awesome
13:49:23 <Patashu> !bfjoust electrictrain (>(-)*10)*9([[-][-][+][+]]>)*20
13:49:26 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_electrictrain: 28.0
13:49:31 <Patashu> !bfjoust electrictrain (>(-)*10)*9([-][-][+][+]>)*20
13:49:34 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_electrictrain: 37.1
13:49:45 <Patashu> having to revert your entry is a pain
13:49:48 <Deewiant> !bfjoust train2 (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>+[[-][-]>+]
13:49:51 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_train2: 46.8
13:50:15 <Patashu> nah it makes underlying sense
13:50:39 <Patashu> !bfjoust electrictrain (>(+)*10)*4(>(-)*10)*5([-][-][+][+]>)*20
13:50:43 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_electrictrain: 38.2
13:51:31 <Patashu> !bfjoust matador >-[]<(++-)*1000.(--+)*1000(>)*9(>[+][-])*21
13:51:35 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_matador: 19.0
13:51:40 <Patashu> !bfjoust matador >-[]<(+-)*1000.(-+)*1000(>)*9(>[+][-])*21
13:51:44 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_matador: 8.2
13:51:49 <Patashu> !bfjoust matador >-[]<(+)*1000.(-)*1000(>)*9(>[+][-])*21
13:51:53 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_matador: 10.8
13:51:57 <Deewiant> !bfjoust train2 (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>+([[-][-]>+])*30
13:52:01 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_train2: 52.6
13:52:02 <Patashu> !bfjoust matador >-[]<(+++-)*1000.(---+)*1000(>)*9(>[+][-])*21
13:52:07 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_matador: 16.8
13:52:16 <Patashu> !bfjoust matador >-[]<(++-)*1000.(--+)*1000(>)*9(>[+][-])*21
13:52:20 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_matador: 19.5
13:52:22 <Patashu> hmm why is this the optimum
13:52:23 <Deewiant> !bfjoust train2 (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>+([[-][-]>])*30
13:52:27 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_train2: 10.0
13:52:32 <Patashu> don't make it do 40 >s in total ;)
13:52:38 <Deewiant> !bfjoust train2 (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>+([[-][-]>+])*30
13:52:42 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_train2: 52.6
13:52:44 <Patashu> it should end before doing a 30th >
13:52:48 <Patashu> because that's an instant win for your enemy
13:53:07 <Deewiant> !bfjoust train2 (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>+([[-][-]>+])*19
13:53:10 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_train2: 24.4
13:53:16 <Deewiant> !bfjoust train2 (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>+([[-][-]>+])*20
13:53:20 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_train2: 27.4
13:53:20 <Deewiant> !bfjoust train2 (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>+([[-][-]>+])*21
13:53:24 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_train2: 34.6
13:53:28 <Deewiant> !bfjoust train2 (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>+([[-][-]>+])*40
13:53:32 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_train2: 36.3
13:53:35 <Deewiant> !bfjoust train2 (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>+([[-][-]>+])*30
13:53:39 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_train2: 52.6
13:54:01 <Deewiant> But still, more should be better :-P
13:54:10 <Patashu> keep in mind that > off the edge is instant loss
13:54:10 <Deewiant> It just hits nice numbers on the randomizer now
13:54:16 <Patashu> but noping for all eternity might be a draw
13:54:21 <Deewiant> Yeah, but there's no way of detecting that
13:54:28 <Patashu> not the way you set it up no
13:54:32 <Deewiant> It's a train, it doesn't stop ;-)
13:54:39 <Deewiant> It just keeps choo-chooing onward
13:54:43 <Patashu> !bfjoust matador >-[]<(++-)*1000(--+)*1000(>)*9(>[+][-])*21
13:54:47 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_matador: 25.3
13:54:59 <Patashu> !bfjoust matador >-[]<(++-)*1000+(--+)*1000(>)*9(>[+][-])*21
13:55:02 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_matador: 19.5
13:55:03 <Patashu> !bfjoust matador >-[]<(++-)*1000-(--+)*1000(>)*9(>[+][-])*21
13:55:07 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_matador: 29.5
13:55:10 -!- Taejo has joined.
13:55:18 <Patashu> why does it work? who knows
13:55:27 <Taejo> !bfjoust taejo_simplexity (>->+)*5[[-]>-]
13:55:31 <EgoBot> Score for Taejo_taejo_simplexity: 21.5
13:56:18 <Deewiant> Err, did you even change anything between those last two
13:56:47 <Patashu> !bfjoust waiter ((++-)*10000-(--+)*10000)*2(+)*10000(-)*10000(+-)*10000(-+)*10000(>)*8(>(-.)*128)*20
13:56:51 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_waiter: 42.9
13:57:07 <Asztal> !bfjoust boring (++--+->-<)*100000
13:57:12 <Taejo> Deewiant: when I last submitted the bot was broken
13:57:12 <EgoBot> Score for Asztal_boring: 29.1
13:57:24 <Patashu> !bfjoust waiter ((++-)*50000-(--+)*50000)*2(+)*10000(-)*10000(+-)*10000(-+)*10000(>)*8(>(-.)*128)*20
13:57:28 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_waiter: 42.4
13:57:32 <Taejo> !bfjoust taejo_simplexity (>)*10[[-]>-]
13:57:36 <Deewiant> Taejo: Sorry, that was directed at Patashu
13:57:36 <EgoBot> Score for Taejo_taejo_simplexity: 15.2
13:57:40 <Patashu> !bfjoust waiter ((++-)*10000-(--+)*10000)*2(+)*50000(-)*50000(+-)*10000(-+)*10000(>)*8(>(-.)*128)*20
13:57:40 <Deewiant> Didn't notice you in between there :-P
13:57:44 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_waiter: 47.1
13:58:00 <Patashu> !bfjoust waiter ((++-)*10000-(--+)*10000)*2(+)*50000(-)*50000(+-)*50000(-+)*50000(>)*8(>(-.)*128)*20
13:58:02 <Asztal> !bfjoust boring (++--+-)*100000
13:58:03 <Deewiant> Patashu: Stop lowering train2's score
13:58:05 <EgoBot> Score for Asztal_boring: 28.0
13:58:05 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_waiter: 42.4
13:58:11 <Patashu> !bfjoust waiter ((++-)*10000-(--+)*10000)*2(+)*50000(-)*50000(+-)*20000(-+)*20000(>)*8(>(-.)*128)*20
13:58:14 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_waiter: 43.5
13:58:19 <Patashu> !bfjoust waiter ((++-)*10000-(--+)*10000)*2(+)*50000(-)*50000(+-)*10000(-+)*10000(>)*8(>(-.)*128)*20
13:58:22 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_waiter: 48.2
13:58:28 <Taejo> !bfjoust taejo_simplexity (>)*18[[-]>-]
13:58:32 <EgoBot> Score for Taejo_taejo_simplexity: 16.5
13:58:48 <Asztal> !bfjoust boring (-)*100000
13:58:53 <EgoBot> Score for Asztal_boring: 36.0
13:59:13 <Asztal> I guess a lot of them use [-][-]
13:59:24 <Taejo> !bfjoust taejo_simplexity (>)*10[[-][-]>-]
13:59:28 <EgoBot> Score for Taejo_taejo_simplexity: 19.8
13:59:33 <Patashu> !bfjoust waiter (-)*100000((++-)*10000-(--+)*10000)*2(+)*50000(-)*50000(+-)*20000(-+)*20000(>)*8(>(-.)*128)*20
13:59:37 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_waiter: 27.1
13:59:43 <Patashu> !bfjoust waiter (-)*10000((++-)*10000-(--+)*10000)*2(+)*50000(-)*50000(+-)*20000(-+)*20000(>)*8(>(-.)*128)*20
13:59:47 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_waiter: 37.7
13:59:48 <Taejo> !bfjoust taejo_simplexity >(+)*128(>)*9[[-][-]>-]
13:59:52 <EgoBot> Score for Taejo_taejo_simplexity: 14.0
13:59:52 <Patashu> !bfjoust waiter ((++-)*10000-(--+)*10000)*2(+)*50000(-)*50000(+-)*20000(-+)*20000(>)*8(>(-.)*128)*20
13:59:57 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_waiter: 41.8
14:00:30 <Deewiant> !bfjoust sloth >(+)*128((++-)*1024(--+)*1024)*100([>[-]+])*100
14:00:35 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_sloth: 0.0
14:01:02 <Deewiant> !bfjoust sloth >(+)*128((++-)*1024(--+)*1024)*100>([>[-]+])*100
14:01:06 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_sloth: 4.8
14:01:07 <Patashu> (+)*128 doesn't provide a particularly big advantage
14:01:14 <Patashu> it just needs to be bigger than the current largest decoy buster in play
14:01:26 <Patashu> (that is, some amount of +ing or -ing before a loop like [+])
14:01:36 <Deewiant> !bfjoust sloth >(+)*12((++-)*1024(--+)*1024)*100>([>[-]+])*100
14:01:41 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_sloth: 0.0
14:01:53 <Deewiant> !bfjoust sloth >(+)*12((++-)*1024(--+)*1024)*100(>)*8([>[-]+])*100
14:01:58 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_sloth: 0.0
14:02:01 <Deewiant> !bfjoust sloth >(+)*12((++-)*1024(--+)*1024)*100(>)*8+([>[-]+])*100
14:02:05 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_sloth: 0.0
14:02:14 <Deewiant> Sit around and then attack simply
14:02:17 <Deewiant> !bfjoust sloth (+)*12((++-)*1024(--+)*1024)*100(>)*8+([>[-]+])*100
14:02:20 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_sloth: 42.5
14:02:40 <Patashu> if the program uses a [] like structure to attack cells
14:02:50 <Patashu> if it sees 0 for one cell then it assumes 'oh, I'm done here' and moves to the next
14:03:06 <Patashu> but if you're altering it your flag can hit 0 and then bounce back off 0 from your efforts
14:03:10 <Deewiant> Hmm, right, and if it sees 0 for the one next to the flag it kills the flag
14:03:11 <Patashu> while the unsuspecting program wanders off the tape's edge
14:03:17 <Deewiant> And if you alter the flag... yeah
14:03:25 <Deewiant> Still, I wouldn't expect it to be that much better :-P
14:03:42 <Patashu> it's one of the main strategies :)
14:03:53 <Patashu> of course it does much better than letting the enemy move onto your flag and attack it uncontested
14:03:55 -!- lereah_ has left (?).
14:03:56 -!- lereah_ has joined.
14:04:17 <Deewiant> !bfjoust sloth (+)*12((++-)*1024(--+)*1024)*100(>)*8([>[-]]+)*100
14:04:21 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_sloth: 36.0
14:04:23 <Asztal> !bfjoust retreat (>-)*9([.]-[.]<)*9(++--+-++--)*100000
14:04:28 <EgoBot> Score for Asztal_retreat: 9.8
14:04:30 <Deewiant> !bfjoust sloth (+)*12((++-)*1024(--+)*1024)*100(>)*8([>[-]+]+)*100
14:04:33 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_sloth: 36.0
14:04:35 <Patashu> !bfjoust matador >-[]<(++-)*1000-(--+)*1000(>)*9(>[+][-])*21
14:04:39 <Deewiant> !bfjoust sloth (+)*12((++-)*1024(--+)*1024)*100(>)*8([>[-]+]>)*100
14:04:39 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_matador: 22.8
14:04:43 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_sloth: 40.7
14:04:45 <Patashu> !bfjoust matador >+[]<(++-)*1000-(--+)*1000(>)*9(>[+][-])*21
14:04:49 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_matador: 30.5
14:05:00 <Patashu> !bfjoust matador >+[]<(++-)*1000+(--+)*1000(>)*9(>[+][-])*21
14:05:00 <Deewiant> !bfjoust sloth (+)*12((++-)*1024(--+)*1024)*100(>)*8([>[-]+])*100
14:05:06 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_matador: 32.7
14:05:06 -!- myndzi has joined.
14:05:06 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_sloth: 26.9
14:05:12 <Deewiant> !bfjoust sloth (+)*12((++-)*1024(--+)*1024)*100(>)*8([>[-]+]>)*100
14:05:15 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_sloth: 40.7
14:05:34 <Deewiant> !bfjoust sloth (+)*12((++-)*1024(--+)*1024)*100(>)*8+([>[-]+])*100
14:05:38 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_sloth: 40.7
14:07:05 <Deewiant> !bfjoust sloth ((++-)*1024(--+)*1024)*100(>)*8+([>[-]+])*100
14:07:09 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_sloth: 36.0
14:07:14 <Deewiant> !bfjoust sloth (+)*128((++-)*1024(--+)*1024)*100(>)*8+([>[-]+])*100
14:07:18 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_sloth: 31.9
14:07:19 <Deewiant> !bfjoust sloth (+)*127((++-)*1024(--+)*1024)*100(>)*8+([>[-]+])*100
14:07:24 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_sloth: 32.7
14:07:32 <Deewiant> !bfjoust sloth (+)*12((++-)*1024-(--+)*1024)*100(>)*8+([>[-]+])*100
14:07:36 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_sloth: 45.4
14:07:38 <Deewiant> !bfjoust sloth (+)*12((++-)*1024+(--+)*1024)*100(>)*8+([>[-]+])*100
14:07:42 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_sloth: 29.6
14:07:50 <Deewiant> !bfjoust sloth (+)*12((++-)*1024-(-+-)*1024)*100(>)*8+([>[-]+])*100
14:07:54 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_sloth: 29.6
14:07:59 <Deewiant> !bfjoust sloth (+)*12((+-+)*1024-(-+-)*1024)*100(>)*8+([>[-]+])*100
14:08:03 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_sloth: 36.3
14:08:11 <Deewiant> !bfjoust sloth (+)*12((+-+)*1024-(-+-)*1024+)*100(>)*8+([>[-]+])*100
14:08:14 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_sloth: 40.7
14:08:28 <Deewiant> !bfjoust sloth (+)*12((++-)*1024-(--+)*1024)*100(>)*8+([>[-]+])*100
14:08:32 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_sloth: 45.4
14:08:49 <Patashu> have you been looking at the other programs at all?
14:09:26 <Deewiant> Not beyond from what's been pasted here, mostly only what's been pasted here in the last 30 minutes :-P
14:09:40 <Patashu> http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/ read, learn, understand, know
14:10:44 <Patashu> why are they posted publicly then?
14:10:53 <Deewiant> As in, I consider it cheating :-P
14:11:08 <Deewiant> Or something like cheating but not quite cheating, there may or may not be a good word for it
14:27:17 -!- leonid_ has joined.
14:30:11 <Patashu> to submit, it's !bfjoust program
14:30:16 <Patashu> it'll append your name to the start automatically
14:30:25 <Patashu> if the name matches a program's name it gets overridden
14:30:43 <Patashu> so for instance one of mine is
14:30:44 <Patashu> !bfjoust juggernaut +(>(-)*128.--++)*29
14:30:47 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_juggernaut: 47.9
14:31:33 <leonid_> how is the score evaluated?
14:31:43 <Patashu> it runs it against every other program on the hill
14:31:51 <Patashu> for each win, the more points that program had the more points you get
14:32:03 <EgoBot> Use: !bfjoust <program name> <program>
14:32:16 <EgoBot> Score for lereah__butt: 10.5
14:32:23 <Patashu> even if you do nothing interesting
14:32:24 <lereah_> I have no idea what's going on
14:32:28 <Patashu> you can still get a few wins if you make programs fall off the edge
14:32:36 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 11.5
14:32:47 <EgoBot> Score for lereah__butt: 9.2
14:32:51 <Patashu> here's a short program that has the capability of winning
14:33:11 <Patashu> the flag is between 9 and 29 cells away to start off
14:33:17 <Patashu> so we move 9 tiles forward
14:33:38 <Patashu> and to win we have to blank the flag at some point. we can do this either way since 128 is equidistant from 0 in either direction
14:33:48 <Patashu> but [-], if the other pointer is not altering it at the same time, will decrement it until it is 0 then continue
14:34:04 <Patashu> so if that was the enemy's flag and they aren't changing it at the same time you win if you zero out their flag first
14:34:08 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 3.0
14:34:53 <EgoBot> Score for lereah__butt: 11.5
14:34:58 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 16.8
14:35:13 <lereah_> I'm typing random things because I have no idea what's going on
14:35:23 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 10.5
14:35:33 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 19.5
14:35:42 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 19.5
14:35:49 <Patashu> !bfjoust rushpolarity >((+)*10>(-)*10>(-)*10>(+)*10)*2>((+)*8[+[-]]+.--.++>(-)*8[-[+]]+.--.++>)*10(+)*8[+[-]]+.--.++
14:35:52 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_rushpolarity: 51.0
14:35:57 <Patashu> we're not talking about anything else go ahead
14:36:07 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 11.5
14:36:08 <Patashu> !bfjoust rushpolarity >((+)*10>(-)*10>(-)*10>(+)*10)*2>((+)*8[[+][-]]+.--.++>(-)*8[[-][+]]+.--.++>)*10(+)*8[+[-]]+.--.++
14:36:13 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_rushpolarity: 44.9
14:36:14 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 11.0
14:36:22 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 19.5
14:36:26 <Patashu> !bfjoust rushpolarity >((+)*10>(-)*10>(-)*10>(+)*10)*2>((+)*10[+[-]]+.--.++>(-)*10[-[+]]+.--.++>)*10(+)*8[+[-]]+.--.++
14:36:30 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_rushpolarity: 56.2
14:36:47 <Patashu> !bfjoust rushpolarity >((+)*10>(-)*10>(-)*10>(+)*10)*2>((+)*12[+[-]]+.--.++>(-)*12[-[+]]+.--.++>)*10(+)*8[+[-]]+.--.++
14:36:51 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_rushpolarity: 47.6
14:36:56 <Patashu> nope 10 is a sweat spot apparantly
14:37:02 <Patashu> !bfjoust rushpolarity >((+)*10>(-)*10>(-)*10>(+)*10)*2>((+)*11[+[-]]+.--.++>(-)*11[-[+]]+.--.++>)*10(+)*8[+[-]]+.--.++
14:37:07 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_rushpolarity: 49.9
14:37:09 <Patashu> oops I keep saying sweat spot
14:37:13 <Patashu> !bfjoust rushpolarity >((+)*10>(-)*10>(-)*10>(+)*10)*2>((+)*10[+[-]]+.--.++>(-)*10[-[+]]+.--.++>)*10(+)*8[+[-]]+.--.++
14:37:17 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_rushpolarity: 56.2
14:37:19 <Patashu> back to the version that works best
14:38:05 <leonid_> !bfjoust lols ((+)*10(>[-])*19(<)*19)*10
14:39:22 <EgoBot> Supported commands: addinterp bf_txtgen bfjoust daemon daemons delinterp fyb help info kill mush userinterps 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch bct befunge befunge98 bf bf16 bf32 bf8 bfbignum boolfuck c chiqrsx9p choo cintercal clcintercal cxx dimensifuck echo forth glass glypho google hello kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge notecho ook pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor rot13 sadol sceql sh show slashes test trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl yodawg
14:40:33 <Patashu> why on earth would that break it *raisez eyebrow*
14:40:48 <Patashu> !bfjoust suicide_is_your_only_option <
14:41:09 <EgoBot> Daemon all_humans does not exist!
14:41:17 <Patashu> don't you go around killing things
14:41:23 <EgoBot> Daemon Patashu does not exist!
14:42:06 <EgoBot> daemon: !daemon <name> <language> <code>. Add a daemon to EgoBot. A daemon will run in the background, and accept a line of input every time !<name> <input> is run. Note that daemons are only allotted one line of output for each line of input.
14:42:45 <EgoBot> Running daemons: bottles butt
14:42:45 <EgoBot> Daemon Patashu running.
14:42:51 <EgoBot> Daemon Patashu killed.
14:45:43 <Patashu> http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/ < programs currently on the hill
14:46:18 <EgoBot> /tmp/input.23677: line 1: kill: (22653) - Operation not permitted
14:47:50 <EgoBot> Use: !fyb <program name> <program>
14:47:53 <Patashu> let's play fyb while we wait
14:48:39 <Patashu> it's like that but brainfuckier
14:49:24 <Patashu> http://codu.org/eso/fyb/ and readme
14:50:02 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_suicide_is_your_only_option: 2.8
14:50:02 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 26.6
14:50:43 <Patashu> I queried him to let him know
14:50:57 <leonid_> !bfjoust lols ((+)*10(>[-])*10(<)*10)*2
14:51:35 <Patashu> it might be a bug with < maybe
14:53:05 <Patashu> you are hereby banned from using < until you know better
14:53:43 <Patashu> have you ever looked at brainfuck code before?
14:53:55 <leonid_> i often write simple bf codes
14:53:58 <Patashu> also, tidbit: the ] check is considered a cycle
14:54:08 <Patashu> so [+] is executed like +]+]+]... until the cell is zero
14:54:23 <Patashu> for loops it uses the value of the cell before the two programs take their turn for that turn
14:54:33 <Patashu> that won't matter unless both pointers are altering the same cell though
14:56:17 <leonid_> whoa lol what did i just do
14:57:00 <leonid_> maybe i should change the code for the sake of etiquette lol
14:57:32 <Patashu> I'm almost certain it's the multiplied <
14:57:35 <Patashu> so just don't use that for now
14:59:20 -!- myndzi has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
15:06:39 <Patashu> how long has it been this time
15:07:13 <leonid_> reduced the number of loops and still
15:07:37 <leonid_> i wonder what happens if I do +[]
15:08:02 <Deewiant> You should get summarily beaten by all opponents :-P
15:08:10 <Patashu> there's a 384000 cycle limit on a game
15:08:36 <Patashu> and the game would end as soon as one of them suicides or a flag is 0 for consecutive cycles
15:08:47 <Patashu> you can't really lock up bfjoust...except through bugs I guess D:
15:09:06 <Deewiant> Btw, does that mean one turn for both players after the flag is zero?
15:09:24 <Patashu> flag is x, both players take turns, flag is 0
15:09:31 <Patashu> flag is 0, both players take turns, flag is 0
15:09:38 <Patashu> that would declare the game over
15:09:40 <impomatic> 1 turn = 1 instruction for each player, they're run in parallel
15:09:50 <Deewiant> So 1 turn for both after it's zero
15:10:48 <Patashu> if you use [-] you're basically doing -]-]-]... so that handles the two cycle thing
15:10:56 <Patashu> but if you're using (-)*abignumber you're doing -----
15:13:42 <nooga> !bfjoust woot ([>+)*5(])*5
15:14:12 <Patashu> aww egobot doesn't do ruby
15:15:05 <nooga> puts "Segmentation fault."
15:26:09 <EgoBot> addinterp: !addinterp <name> <language> <code>. Add a new interpreter to EgoBot. This interpreter will be run once every time you type !<name> <subcode>, and receive the program code as input.
15:27:15 <Patashu> does egobot do php or ruby?
15:28:04 <EgoBot> Supported commands: addinterp bf_txtgen bfjoust daemon daemons delinterp fyb help info kill mush userinterps 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch bct befunge befunge98 bf bf16 bf32 bf8 bfbignum boolfuck c chiqrsx9p choo cintercal clcintercal cxx dimensifuck echo forth glass glypho google hello kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge notecho ook pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor rot13 sadol sceql sh show slashes test trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl yodawg
15:28:10 <EgoBot> Sorry, I have no help for ruby!
15:28:12 <EgoBot> Sorry, I have no help for php!
15:28:15 <EgoBot> Sorry, I have no help for egobot!
15:28:23 -!- lereah_ has quit (Remote closed the connection).
15:29:13 <EgoBot> ./interps/gcccomp/gcccomp: line 52: 27871 Segmentation fault /tmp/compiled.$$ 2>&1
15:29:17 -!- myndzi has joined.
15:30:05 <EgoBot> Sorry, I have no help for yodawg!
15:30:16 <EgoBot> Unexpected end of file
15:30:39 <Patashu> !yodawg 1!2@3#4$5%6^7&8*9(0)-_=+[{]}\\:;'",<..>/?
15:32:37 <Deewiant> Signal 18 (CONT) caught by ps (procps version 3.2.7).
15:33:01 <Deewiant> I thought SIGCONT couldn't be caught
15:37:24 -!- myndzi has quit (Read error: 60 (Operation timed out)).
15:41:52 <Patashu> imagine a world with no !bfjoust
15:42:17 <Patashu> silent stealth assassin of !bfjoust
15:42:42 <Patashu> !echo glove owned the simfiles forums
15:42:43 <EgoBot> glove owned the simfiles forums
15:44:21 <Patashu> it seems to have an interpreter in unlambda
15:44:27 <Patashu> so it might be lambda calculus based
15:44:38 <Patashu> !bfjoust suicide_is_your_only_option <
15:44:43 <leonid_> i tried it some with universal lambda
15:44:53 * oerjan wonders if leonid_ and Patashu have even _heard_ of the yo dawg meme
15:45:04 <Patashu> but it didn't help me solve the conundrum did it
15:45:48 * oerjan lets you ponder it for a while
15:45:50 <nooga> yo dawg, i herd u liek functions, so we've put a function in your function so now you can derive while you derive
15:46:03 <EgoBot> Sorry, I have no help for yodawg!
15:46:08 -!- myndzi has joined.
15:46:16 <EgoBot> EgoBot is a bot for running programs in esoteric programming languages. If you'd like to add support for your language to EgoBot, check out the source via mercurial at https://codu.org/projects/egobot/hg/
15:46:24 <EgoBot> Installed user interpreters: bct bfbignum chiqrsx9p choo echo google hello num ook rot13 slashes yodawg
15:46:35 <EgoBot> Installed user interpreters: bct bfbignum chiqrsx9p choo echo google hello num ook rot13 slashes yodawg
15:46:40 <EgoBot> Unexpected end of file
15:46:42 <nooga> how to uninstall interpreter?
15:46:43 <EgoBot> Supported commands: addinterp bf_txtgen bfjoust daemon daemons delinterp fyb help info kill mush userinterps 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch bct befunge befunge98 bf bf16 bf32 bf8 bfbignum boolfuck c chiqrsx9p choo cintercal clcintercal cxx dimensifuck echo forth glass glypho google hello kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge notecho num ook pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor rot13 sadol sceql sh show slashes test trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl yodawg
15:46:47 <Patashu> there was a command to do it
15:46:49 <EgoBot> unlambda (sending via DCC)
15:46:56 <EgoBot> unlambda (sending via DCC)
15:47:07 <EgoBot> unlambda (sending via DCC)
15:47:15 <EgoBot> unlambda (sending via DCC)
15:47:26 <Deewiant> ### Copyright (C) 2001 by Ørjan Johansen <oerjan@nvg.ntnu.no>
15:47:36 <Patashu> yo dawg we put unlambda code in your unlambda interpreter
15:47:51 <Patashu> so you can do lambda calculus while you do lambda calculus
15:48:14 * oerjan cackles his evil maniacal laughter. BWAHAHAHA!
15:49:09 <oerjan> nooga: technically i'm not sure a norwegian _can_ cancel his copyright.
15:49:33 <oerjan> although i write "public domain" in my programs recently
15:49:46 <oerjan> i can sell it, of course
15:50:00 <nooga> sell yodawg interpreter in unlambda
15:50:06 <EgoBot> perl (sending via DCC)
15:50:08 <oerjan> but i'm not sure that norway has a PD concept apart from actual expiration
15:50:34 <oerjan> not that i've actually checked
15:50:58 <EgoBot> bf >,[>,]<++++++++++++++++++++++[<]>[[.>]<[<]>[-]>]
15:51:14 <EgoBot> foo bar oo bar o bar bar bar ar r
15:52:23 <EgoBot> c char buf[1024]; int i; fgets(buf, 1024, stdin); for (i=0;buf[i];i++)buf[i]=(buf[i]=='\n')?'\0':buf[i]; if (!strcmp(buf, "h")) printf("Hello World\n"); else printf("Unknown command (%s) encountered\n", buf);
15:52:45 <EgoBot> Unknown command (any other input) encountered
15:52:51 <EgoBot> Unknown command (hh) encountered
15:52:57 <EgoBot> Unknown command (hentai) encountered
15:53:13 <Deewiant> Hmm, that's an extremely silly implementation
15:53:24 <Patashu> it's not faithful to the specs?
15:53:25 <EgoBot> Installed user interpreters: bct bfbignum chiqrsx9p choo echo google hello num ook rot13 slashes yodawg
15:53:33 <Patashu> leonid if you have any trivial interpreters feel free to add them on :o
15:53:43 <EgoBot> perl: warning: Setting locale failed.
15:54:01 <EgoBot> perl: warning: Setting locale failed.
15:54:01 <leonid_> golfscript interpreter would be good
15:54:16 <oerjan> !slashes Then this won't work either
15:54:16 <EgoBot> perl: warning: Setting locale failed.
15:54:26 <Patashu> wait wasn't slashes working earlier
15:54:53 <oerjan> GregorR: perl interps are broken
15:55:00 <Patashu> there's no ruby, python, java, php
15:55:06 <Patashu> well what ARE we meant to program in god
15:55:25 <oerjan> Patashu: Perl, C, C++, Forth, or an esolang
15:55:33 <oerjan> maybe some i've forgot
15:55:45 <Patashu> hmm...what are asm, axo and bch?
15:56:40 <EgoBot> Supported commands: addinterp bf_txtgen bfjoust daemon daemons delinterp fyb help info kill mush userinterps 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch bct befunge befunge98 bf bf16 bf32 bf8 bfbignum boolfuck c chiqrsx9p choo cintercal clcintercal cxx dimensifuck echo forth glass glypho google hello kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge notecho num ook pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor rot13 sadol sceql sh show slashes test trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl yodawg
15:56:46 <EgoBot> That is not a user interpreter!
15:56:52 <Patashu> can't get info on commands
15:57:03 <EgoBot> Sorry, I have no help for whirl!
15:57:17 <EgoBot> That is not a user interpreter!
15:57:50 <leonid_> bfjoust has been dead for 67 min
15:58:29 <EgoBot> /tmp/input.1687: line 1: ruby: command not found
15:58:50 <EgoBot> /usr/bin/whoami: cannot find name for user ID 1242221
15:58:58 <EgoBot> /home/egobot/egobot.hg/multibot_cmds
15:59:39 <Patashu> oh just didn't want to do it for some reason
16:00:02 <Patashu> won't do much good for you
16:00:07 <Patashu> since it only returns one line
16:00:14 <EgoBot> Vim: Warning: Output is not to a terminal
16:00:31 <leonid_> that process is still running
16:00:39 <EgoBot> /tmp/input.2330: line 1: :q!: command not found
16:01:20 <Deewiant> Where * is glob-expanded as usual
16:01:23 <EgoBot> /tmp/input.2592: line 1: job: command not found
16:01:39 <EgoBot> /bin/ls: interps: Function not implemented
16:02:02 -!- oerjan has quit ("leaving").
16:02:32 <EgoBot> /tmp/input.2902: line 1: no: command not found
16:04:31 -!- myndzi has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
16:04:49 <EgoBot> /tmp/input.3403: line 1: no: command not found
16:05:04 <Patashu> !sh echo a tear shed for those who have fallen
16:05:05 <EgoBot> a tear shed for those who have fallen
16:05:08 <Deewiant> !sh alias no='yes n'; no | head -1
16:05:09 <EgoBot> /tmp/input.3514: line 1: no: command not found
16:05:15 -!- impomatic has left (?).
16:06:07 <Deewiant> Hmm, it just doesn't work like that after ;
16:06:25 <Patashu> maybe you can't save aliases
16:06:53 <Deewiant> It works if you do it as a separate command
16:07:06 <EgoBot> /tmp/input.3915: line 1: no: command not found
16:07:24 <EgoBot> /home/egobot/egobot.hg/multibot_cmds
16:07:27 <Deewiant> But like said, not when separated with ; :-P
16:07:29 <EgoBot> /home/egobot/egobot.hg/multibot_cmds
16:07:38 <EgoBot> /home/egobot/egobot.hg
16:07:38 <EgoBot> /home/egobot/egobot.hg
16:13:03 -!- Patashu has quit ("Patashu/SteampunkX - MSN = Patashu@hotmail.com , AIM = Patashu0 , YIM = Patashu2 , Googletalk = Patashu0@gmail.com .").
16:16:13 <ehird> 00:18 pikhq: AnMaster: BTW, have you ever checked out Second Life?
16:16:13 <ehird> 00:18 AnMaster: pikhq, no I haven't
16:16:14 <ehird> 00:18 AnMaster: pikhq, doesn't work in offline mode
16:16:16 <ehird> HAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA
16:17:19 <ehird> gregorr rewrote bfjoust?
16:18:16 -!- myndzi has joined.
16:19:58 <ehird> 01:37 psygnisfive: ive got a NeXT machine! :o
16:20:00 <ehird> it's shit, it's not a cube
16:21:00 -!- myndzi has quit (Read error: 113 (No route to host)).
16:25:05 <ehird> 01:06:21 <Patashu> would be to be given a set of numbers and usable operators
16:25:05 <ehird> 01:06:28 <Patashu> and to make it equal a number given upfront
16:25:06 <ehird> 01:06:31 <Patashu> first person to answer wins
16:25:26 -!- myndzi has joined.
16:25:40 <pikhq> !sh cd ..;touch flimble
16:25:41 <EgoBot> /usr/bin/touch: cannot touch `flimble': Permission denied
16:25:53 <pikhq> !sh mkdir foo;touch flimble
16:25:53 <EgoBot> /bin/mkdir: cannot create directory `foo': Permission denied
16:26:27 <myndzi> firewall freaked the hell out
16:30:13 <AnMaster> <ehird> it's shit, it's not a cube <-- about cube... What happened to that Mac called "Cube"?
16:30:25 <AnMaster> it seems like it just was forgotten quietly
16:30:27 <ehird> AnMaster: It had overheating issues and also flopped commercially.
16:30:39 <pikhq> The Mac Cube was a pretty cool design.
16:30:43 <ehird> AnMaster: But some enthusiasts still have one.
16:30:47 <pikhq> Not in the sense that it ran cool, mind.
16:30:49 -!- MizardX has quit ("Proclamation of invalidity!").
16:30:49 <nooga> say that about mac mini
16:30:53 <ehird> If you put two mac minis on top of each other:
16:30:53 <ehird> http://www.apple.com/macmini/
16:30:57 <ehird> it would look basically the same.
16:30:59 <ehird> (And be just as hot!)
16:31:15 * nooga has got mac mini and mb pro
16:31:19 <AnMaster> ehird, the cube did have a nice design though
16:31:23 <nooga> and mac mini < mb pro
16:31:23 * pikhq is tempted to get a Mac Cube and stick a Mac Mini in its case
16:31:51 <pikhq> ehird: Thus why I'm tempted. I want one, too.
16:31:57 <ehird> AnMaster: google.com
16:32:10 <myndzi> !bfjoust test >+>->+>->+>->+>-(>[>[-+++++++++++++++++[-.]]+]+)*20
16:32:17 <nooga> i'd better go back to my work, erm.. playing enigma
16:32:26 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_suicide_is_your_only_option: 2.9
16:32:26 <EgoBot> Score for nooga_woot: 13.0
16:32:26 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 24.2
16:32:26 <EgoBot> Score for myndzi_test: 44.4
16:32:58 <myndzi> ha, it does indeed beat the defends
16:33:05 <myndzi> i thought a timing attack might work out :P
16:33:11 <nooga> still i don't get how this game works
16:33:26 <AnMaster> Just found out erlang's standard library have a module implementing a directed graph, and various operations on it (such as topological sorting). Nice.
16:33:34 <ehird> AnMaster: Anyway, if you think the G4 Cube was pretty:
16:33:57 <AnMaster> ehird, not pretty. That is something else. You can have nice design without it being pretty
16:34:02 <ehird> http://www.channelu.com/Turbo/NeXT/i/cube1a.jpg
16:34:11 <ehird> ↑ NeXTcube >>> G4 Cube
16:34:12 <myndzi> !bfjoust test >+>->+>->+>->+>-(>[>[------------++++++++++++++++++++++++++++[-.]]+]+)*20
16:34:13 <AnMaster> nice design as in "looks cool (NOT in the thermal sense)"
16:34:16 <EgoBot> Score for myndzi_test: 36.6
16:34:18 <pikhq> BTW, yes, I also <3 the NeXTcube.
16:34:21 <ehird> ...apart from not loading, that image is nice
16:34:26 -!- fungebob has quit ("ChatZilla 0.9.84 [Firefox 3.0.10/2009042316]").
16:34:28 <ehird> http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/27/NeXTcube.jpg
16:34:30 <ehird> have a low-res version
16:34:36 <ehird> hmm actually the same one, whatever
16:34:53 <myndzi> !bfjoust test >(+)*20>(-)*20>+>->+>->+>-(>[>[-+++++++++++++++++[-.]]+]+)*20
16:34:57 <AnMaster> huh why does it take so long to load then
16:34:57 <EgoBot> Score for myndzi_test: 80.1
16:35:07 <ehird> AnMaster: cuz the site is down, use http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/2/27/NeXTcube.jpg
16:35:10 <ehird> 16:34 ehird: ...apart from not loading, that image is nice
16:35:12 <myndzi> 18 | - - + + + + - + + + + + + + + + + + - | 80.1 | 11 | myndzi_test.bfjoust
16:35:14 <ehird> gawd, it's just a little bit of reading...
16:35:28 <AnMaster> ehird, I was so eager to look at the picture that I didn't read the next line!
16:35:45 <ehird> AnMaster: clearer pics: http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/reach/435/nextsystem_on.jpg, and http://www.fortunecity.com/marina/reach/435/nextcube_fullback.jpg
16:35:45 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 3.0
16:35:50 <AnMaster> ehird, looks like a cross between a cube and a safe?
16:35:57 <ehird> AnMaster: that would be the fan grill
16:36:14 <AnMaster> ah those clearer pics doesn't make it looks that way
16:36:17 <ehird> AnMaster: the CPU ran at 25MHz! 128KB of ROM! 12MB-64MB of RAM!
16:36:18 <pikhq> AnMaster: Probably took a hint from the IBM school of design.
16:36:21 <ehird> 1120x832 two-bit video
16:36:27 <ehird> 2GB harddrive, 256MB optical drive
16:36:39 <ehird> (Nextstations used optical drives instead of HDs, but that was sloooooooooow)
16:36:52 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 12.3
16:36:56 <pikhq> "Your computer equipment should be able to be used instead of a cinder block for putting a car on bricks."
16:37:01 <AnMaster> ehird, needed a better fan then to not run hot?
16:37:11 <ehird> AnMaster: oh, and that machine ran tis this operating system: http://www.linuxfocus.org/common/images/article128/next24.jpg
16:37:21 <ehird> which was then forced to have a child with BSD to produce OS X
16:37:25 <ehird> AnMaster: it just had terrible airflow
16:37:34 <AnMaster> pikhq, what is a cinder block?
16:37:49 <ehird> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concrete_masonry_unit
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16:45:06 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 14.0
16:49:16 <myndzi> why do you people insist on submitting this junk :\
16:50:00 <myndzi> < leonid_> !bfjoust lols .
16:50:13 <myndzi> Patashu> !bfjoust suicide_is_your_only_option <
16:50:26 <AnMaster> I guess it scored better than some of the pure defenders, that were waiting for something to happen
16:51:01 <myndzi> it did beat two of mine though :>
16:51:04 <myndzi> i know why but i'm not telling!
16:51:32 <AnMaster> myndzi, and I don't care really. :P
16:52:16 <AnMaster> (I'm not very interested in programming war games
16:52:40 <AnMaster> (which isn't a good name for it probably, but I can't think of anything better for stuff like corewars, bf joust and so on)
16:53:31 <leonid_> !bfjoust lols [-]+.[-]+.[-]+.[-]+
16:53:35 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 20.5
16:53:49 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 17.0
16:54:55 <EgoBot> Score for myndzi_test: 6.4
16:56:10 <myndzi> !bfjoust slowrush >(+)*20>(-)*20>+>->+>->+>-(>[[-+++++++++++++++++[-.]]+>]+)*20
16:56:14 <EgoBot> Score for myndzi_slowrush: 84.2
16:56:50 <myndzi> !bfjoust slowrush >(+)*20>(-)*20>+>->+>->+>-(>[>[-+++++++++++++++++[-.]]+]+)*20
16:56:54 <EgoBot> Score for myndzi_slowrush: 80.1
16:57:35 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 12.6
16:57:35 <AnMaster> btw, between the June 8 and the June 13 I will be away and offline.
16:57:45 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 9.1
16:58:30 -!- inurinternet has joined.
16:58:48 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 9.1
16:59:34 <myndzi> where's your defense now ehird!? :)
17:00:02 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 11.0
17:00:15 <myndzi> leonid_: i'm not sure you have grasped the point of this yet
17:00:56 <ehird> myndzi: that applies to most everyone doing most everything
17:01:13 <myndzi> did the hillsize get bumped overnight?
17:01:23 <Deewiant> For some values of "overnight", yes
17:02:00 <myndzi> oh awesome, he added the archived reports too
17:04:19 <leonid_> !bfjoust lols >+[->+].[-].[-]
17:04:23 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 14.6
17:04:28 <myndzi> !bfjoust slowrush >(+)*20>(-)*20>+>->+>->+>-(>[[+-----------------[+.]]+>]+)*20
17:04:32 <EgoBot> Score for myndzi_slowrush: 77.8
17:04:44 <leonid_> !bfjoust lols >+[->+].[-].[-].[-].[-]
17:04:48 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 13.0
17:09:04 -!- MizardX has joined.
17:11:55 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 13.4
17:18:04 <Deewiant> !bfjoust donald (>)*20([-]<)*5
17:18:07 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_donald: 14.1
17:18:40 <Deewiant> !bfjoust donald (>)*21([-]<)*5
17:18:43 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_donald: 16.5
17:19:00 <Deewiant> !bfjoust donald (>)*22([-]<)*5
17:19:04 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_donald: 17.6
17:19:09 <Deewiant> !bfjoust donald (>)*23([-]<)*5
17:19:13 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_donald: 9.1
17:19:17 <Deewiant> !bfjoust donald (>)*24([-]<)*5
17:19:25 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_donald: 7.6
17:19:30 <Deewiant> !bfjoust donald (>)*25([-]<)*5
17:19:34 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_donald: 7.6
17:21:18 <ehird> Deewiant: overruns the tape often
17:21:52 <Deewiant> !bfjoust donald (>)*21([-]<)*5
17:21:58 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_donald: 17.0
17:22:02 <Deewiant> I think I'll settle with this guy, beats shade :-P
17:22:10 <ehird> http://buttersafe.com/2009/05/28/do-you-want-this-snake/
17:22:27 <Deewiant> ehird: I was just trying to get the right values out of the randomizer to beat the best bots :-P
17:22:43 <ehird> Deewiant: just do (>)*N(-)*128[-]
17:22:51 <ehird> it's almost optimal for the write tape length N
17:22:59 <ehird> in fact, completely optimal, I think
17:23:01 <Deewiant> Ah right, (-)*128 is of course better
17:23:03 <ehird> hm actually make it
17:23:25 <ehird> Deewiant: (>)*N(-)*128.[(-.)*128]
17:23:28 <Deewiant> Although I guess too many programs will modify their flag a bit, even attackers
17:23:55 <ehird> Deewiant: because the flag has to be 0 for two generations
17:24:02 <ehird> [-] handles this because it's [-]-]-]
17:24:13 <ehird> hmm otoh, -.-. takes the same cycles
17:24:14 <Deewiant> Oh right, the * is inside the []
17:24:20 <ehird> (>)*N(-)*128.[-], then
17:24:29 <ehird> oh wait, the [ takes a cycle
17:24:37 <ehird> Deewiant: you want a short N
17:24:41 <ehird> i'd bruteforce for N=9
17:24:48 <ehird> that way you take less cycles
17:25:06 <Deewiant> It takes less cycles than the opponent in any case
17:25:20 <ehird> but less cycles objectively = winzor or sth
17:25:26 <Deewiant> !bfjoust donald (>)*21(-)*128[-]
17:25:31 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_donald: 15.1
17:25:53 <ehird> !bfjoust fuck (>)*9(-)*128[-]
17:26:00 <ehird> leonid_: how stupid
17:26:16 <Deewiant> leonid has the amazing ability to make running the joust take upwards of 10 minutes
17:27:03 <leonid_> ehird don't hate stupid people
17:28:11 <leonid_> and why isn't it terminating again
17:28:12 <AnMaster> fun compiler bug for when the last function isn't properly closed. ./polynomial.erl:999999: syntax error before:
17:28:24 <AnMaster> note file is 125 lines long with comments
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17:32:05 <leonid_> i think ehird just hates me ._.
17:32:17 * ehird kicks leonid_ again for good measure
17:32:28 <ehird> i'm prejudiced against people i kick
17:32:43 <ehird> AnMaster: i kicked him, therefore I dislike him. QED.
17:32:44 <pikhq> I thıṅk that my dotted ıṡ don't lıḳe dots.
17:33:11 <AnMaster> ehird, I think there is a flaw in that logic somewhere. But I can't pinpoint it...
17:33:12 <leonid_> hey ehird why did you stop golfing
17:33:16 <ehird> leonid_: oh you're the anarchy golf leonid?
17:33:23 <ehird> also I just haven't been there in a while i guess you brought me there now.
17:33:29 <ehird> right okay i retract my kicks
17:33:38 <ehird> you submitted a non-embed to my http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?Walk+the+line
17:33:43 <AnMaster> ehird, finished that new joust interpreter?
17:33:49 <ehird> oh right that's why I stopped anagolfing
17:33:53 <ehird> EVERYONE JUST SUBMITS EMBEDS
17:34:01 <ehird> AnMaster: no, GregorR made his own so why bother?
17:34:04 <leonid_> post a problem that prevents embed
17:34:15 <ehird> leonid_: that sucks, there are plenty of interesting non-embed problems
17:34:20 <AnMaster> ehird, hm thought it was mostly done?
17:34:25 <myndzi> ehird: the +- thing? the exahustive battle?
17:34:45 <ehird> myndzi: yeah, but GregorR said that egojoust was fine for now
17:34:56 <myndzi> well, it's currently lagged to hell, but yeh
17:35:02 <EgoBot> Score for ehird_fuck: 11.3
17:35:03 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 14.5
17:35:08 <myndzi> too bad, i think i figured out how to fix my bug
17:35:11 <ehird> !bfjoust fuck (>)*9(-)*128[-]
17:35:16 <EgoBot> Score for ehird_fuck: 9.0
17:35:17 <myndzi> even though it is gonna kill his ram
17:35:19 <ehird> !bfjoust fuck (>)*9(-)*128[-]
17:35:24 <EgoBot> Score for ehird_fuck: 9.0
17:35:36 <ehird> leonid_: because ------- takes less cycles than [-]-]-]-]-]
17:35:36 <leonid_> doesn't it just go back to its position
17:35:52 <ehird> Deewiant: embedding the outputs required in the examples on the golf site
17:35:55 <ehird> instead of actually doing the computation
17:36:01 <myndzi> note that the above won't work
17:36:01 <ehird> almost always shorter than actually solving it
17:36:06 <myndzi> it'll dec you right through 0 and past it
17:36:13 <Deewiant> ehird: Ah, so it's the marking for the "cheating entries"
17:36:19 <ehird> 128→0, [, ding! you win
17:36:21 <myndzi> referring to (-(-)*128-)*128
17:36:27 <ehird> !bfjoust fuck (>)*9(-)*128[-]
17:36:27 <ehird> !bfjoust fuck (>)*9(-)*128[-]
17:36:28 <ehird> !bfjoust fuck (>)*9(-)*128[-]
17:36:30 <ehird> !bfjoust fuck (>)*9(-)*128[-]
17:36:32 <ehird> !bfjoust fuck (>)*9(-)*128[-]
17:36:34 <ehird> !bfjoust fuck (>)*9(-)*128[-]
17:36:38 <ehird> dear lord, please make this work
17:36:43 <myndzi> i think i slowed it down horribly
17:36:56 <myndzi> i wasn't quite thinking about the numbers i was using, i should fix that
17:37:00 <leonid_> deewiant, golfscript entry for which problem?
17:37:04 <myndzi> but if/when it runs properly it should win
17:37:09 <myndzi> beat everything but shade
17:37:53 <myndzi> that's what you get for making me use loop operators for "if not zero" :(
17:37:53 <Deewiant> It doesn't cache it in between, does it? :-D
17:38:01 <myndzi> and it has to run it 20 times
17:38:24 <Deewiant> Try random shit until you get a good score
17:38:32 <Deewiant> Worked for me (for middling values of "good")
17:39:02 <myndzi> i'll take it off as soon as i can
17:39:17 <ehird> !bfjoust toofuckingexponential___indahouse (((((-)*65536)*65536)*65536)*65536)*65536
17:39:21 <myndzi> if this is the compromise
17:39:31 <myndzi> he doesn't expand those
17:39:37 <ehird> 1,073,741,824 petabytes
17:39:48 <myndzi> if my understanding is correct
17:40:02 <myndzi> it should only then be somewhere in the range of 25.7MB
17:40:19 <myndzi> it'd expand the ({}) inside the () but not expand it 20 times
17:40:20 <ehird> don't care it's 1 yottabyte, in my mind
17:40:30 <ehird> where is leonid_'s 180000000000000 expansions
17:40:42 <ehird> i am talking about my (((((-)*65536)*65536)*65536)*65536)*65536
17:40:58 <leonid_> what i did was doing (<)*x or something
17:41:12 <myndzi> damn i want to see the results but i gotta go to work
17:41:57 <leonid_> ehird i forgot what your main language for anagol was
17:42:17 <ehird> leonid_: varied. sometimes ruby, sometimes perl, sometimes haskell
17:42:41 <leonid_> yeah i saw some ruby submissions of you
17:42:46 <ehird> http://golf.shinh.org/p.rb?Linear+Congruences ← if Mathematica was an option this would be a oneliner :-D
17:45:32 <EgoBot> Score for ehird_fuck: 9.5
17:45:32 <EgoBot> Score for ehird_fuck: 9.5
17:45:32 <EgoBot> Score for ehird_fuck: 9.5
17:45:32 <EgoBot> Score for ehird_fuck: 9.5
17:45:32 <EgoBot> Score for ehird_fuck: 9.5
17:45:33 <EgoBot> Score for ehird_fuck: 9.5
17:45:42 <EgoBot> Score for ehird_toofuckingexponential___indahouse: 31.1
17:45:52 <ehird> wtf, it ran my 1yb program :D
17:46:08 <Deewiant> I wonder what it expanded it to
17:46:46 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 20.8
17:46:57 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 20.8
17:46:58 <ehird> !bfjoust fuck (-)*99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
17:47:13 <ehird> that's likely smaller
17:47:26 <ehird> >> 65536*65536*65536*65536*65536
17:47:26 <ehird> => 1208925819614629174706176
17:47:45 <pikhq> ehird: It treats it as a for(int i = 0;i < HUGE_FUCKING_NUMBER;i++) and doesn't unroll the loop. ;)
17:48:06 <ehird> pikhq: but running a loop that many times should take way longer than it did
17:48:31 <pikhq> Except that it's a suicide program.
17:48:49 <pikhq> It'll end execution in the first run of the loop. :p
17:49:09 <ehird> it has to stay 0 for two cycles
17:49:16 <pikhq> I'm calling (x)*foo a loop. :p
17:49:23 <ehird> w/ [-], yes, it would stop
17:49:32 <ehird> the ] would make it suicide
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17:50:32 <ehird> 17:46 ehird: !bfjoust fuck (-)*99999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
17:50:39 <ehird> ahead of you i way am
17:50:55 <Deewiant> No, you're trying to kill the interpreter or something :-P
17:51:39 <leonid_> i bet the interpreter hates you
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17:54:40 <leonid_> do i have to wait for this until the world ends
17:55:03 <ehird> this is why MYYY interpreter is needed ;;;;;;;;;;))))))))))))))))
17:56:43 <leonid_> the interpreter should have a timeout
17:58:12 <ehird> but it's slow as fuck
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18:02:05 <Deewiant> ehird: 384k cycles was claimed by someone
18:03:50 <ehird> maybe GregorR did that
18:04:16 <Deewiant> (Thence the value used in scrooge)
18:18:36 <nescience> but the timeout doesn't count the time spent expanding
18:21:11 <ehird> nescience: yd.f oace?
18:29:43 <nescience> ehird: accidental keyboard layout swap
18:29:56 <ehird> what was it meant to be?
18:30:26 <nescience> so did you guys fuck up the bot? :\
18:30:52 <nescience> i realized to do what i want (and be victorious against everything except shade) i need THREE nested expansions
18:31:03 <ehird> !bfjoust turnintoagreenthing .
18:33:52 <nescience> open up the back door to get a cross breeze blowing
18:33:57 <nescience> and there's some chick back behind our building
18:34:04 <nescience> smoking a joint and changing her clothes
18:34:26 <ehird> First law of IRCodynamics: Everyone has a more interesting life than you, except when they don't.
18:34:42 -!- olsner has joined.
18:36:19 <nescience> so you gonna write that interpreter after all?
18:36:38 <nescience> seeing as we managed to cripple the bot somehow
18:36:52 <nescience> (plus if you do expansionless evaluation then i can make slowrush better!)
18:39:06 * ehird refactors some of the rubbish code in it and gets to work on an interpreter loop
18:41:23 <nescience> you could probably ask GregorR-L for his code
18:41:32 <nescience> the one he pasted before isn't the most recent
18:41:41 <ehird> not hard to write from scratch
18:41:45 <ehird> & his code probably isn't mit-licensed
18:41:58 <ehird> also, I'm making a new hill infrastructure
18:42:01 <ehird> so it would be rather pointless
18:42:33 <ehird> anyway, it'll just be part of
18:42:34 <EgoBot> Supported commands: addinterp bf_txtgen bfjoust daemon daemons delinterp fyb help info kill mush userinterps 1l 2l adjust asm axo bch bct befunge befunge98 bf bf16 bf32 bf8 bfbignum boolfuck c chiqrsx9p choo cintercal clcintercal cxx dimensifuck echo forth glass glypho google hello kipple lambda lazyk linguine malbolge notecho num ook pbrain perl qbf rail rhotor rot13 sadol sceql sh show slashes test trigger udage01 underload unlambda whirl yodawg
18:42:37 <EgoBot> EgoBot is a bot for running programs in esoteric programming languages. If you'd like to add support for your language to EgoBot, check out the source via mercurial at https://codu.org/projects/egobot/hg/
18:44:34 <nescience> i guess it must expand 90s, 'cause i can't see anything else evil in the buffer
18:44:37 <ehird> Okay let's see this parser is awful I'm rewriting the paresr
18:44:46 <ehird> nescience: I'm going to do expanding as a pre-processor stage
18:44:50 <ehird> with guards against omggigantic programs
18:45:02 <nescience> i outlined how to do it without expanding at all earlire
18:45:06 <ehird> also, no (a{b}c)%N, you can just do (a)*Nb(c)*N
18:45:15 <ehird> nescience: well, almost all programs are small enough just to expand beforehand
18:45:20 <ehird> also, yes, w/ mine
18:45:25 <nescience> 'cause you have to execute both Ns the same amount of times
18:45:27 <ehird> I know ais's interp can't handle it
18:45:32 <nescience> if the first one breaks out before it's done...
18:45:32 <ehird> nescience: ehm wut
18:45:39 <ehird> i just mean syntactically
18:45:50 <ehird> (a[)*Nb(]c)*N will work in mine, for instance
18:45:56 <nescience> i see, but i'm not sure why it's worth it
18:46:01 <ehird> so there's no need for (a[{b}]c)%N
18:46:07 <ehird> nescience: one less useless feature
18:46:26 <nescience> the problem with doing it like this:
18:46:35 -!- jix_ has joined.
18:46:40 <nescience> is that when the [ fails and you skip the rest of the iterations
18:46:49 <ehird> nescience: excuse me...
18:46:51 <nescience> you have to only do the same amount of closing iterations on the second one
18:47:03 <ehird> i don't think you understand. at all
18:47:16 <ehird> a[a[a[a[a[b]c]c]c]c]c
18:47:21 <ehird> which is identical to
18:47:29 <ehird> a[a[a[a[a[b]c]c]c]c]c
18:47:31 <ehird> nescience: which I am
18:47:39 <ehird> the longest legit program, when expanded, is ~1MB
18:47:47 <nescience> but you can save yourself time, energy, and memory without expansion
18:48:01 <nescience> instructions != cycles as far as legitimacy goes
18:48:03 <ehird> nescience: time, not really
18:48:11 <ehird> memory, oh noes 1MB
18:48:16 <nescience> for example, there will be programs that have a lot of code inside []
18:48:28 <nescience> and they'll have to repeat that block of [] a number of times to do what they want to accomplish
18:48:36 <nescience> so, the longest legit program can be a lot longer than that
18:48:45 <nescience> because you could skip 10000 instructions all at once
18:48:51 <ehird> I don't see your point.
18:49:11 <ehird> Deewiant: 20k in mine.
18:49:14 <nescience> my point is that 1mb, fully expanded, is not enough space
18:49:14 <ehird> I can raise it to 100k if I want.
18:49:23 <ehird> nescience: err, what
18:49:29 <ehird> running programs takes constant space
18:49:51 <Deewiant> ehird: 100k in both of GregorR's and ais's, so I'd do it
18:49:53 <nescience> yes, running programs takes constant space
18:49:53 <ehird> that means 100,000
18:50:01 <ehird> Deewiant: 20k in ais's.
18:50:02 <nescience> i submitted one that was like 25mb
18:50:09 <Deewiant> ehird: 2009-05-28 09:05:45 ( GregorR-L) myndzi: Actually, 100000 in ais' and mine.
18:50:09 <nescience> and it was bugged, it should have been bigger
18:50:17 <ehird> Deewiant: I don't care, ais told me.
18:50:29 <ehird> nescience: it'll just reject programs bigger than 100MB.
18:50:35 <Deewiant> ehird: while ($steps++ < 100000) {
18:50:38 <ehird> since that's about as high as any legit warrior will be
18:50:42 <nescience> which is something of a mistake, and also unnecessary
18:50:51 <nescience> you could be running a program that's like 1000 bytes instead
18:50:51 <ehird> nescience: your arguments are unconvincing
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18:51:12 <nescience> partly i'm in a hurry, partly you're being stubborn
18:51:26 <ehird> nescience: ... there's no advantage to expanding it in-time
18:51:36 <ehird> you're seriously overreacting
18:51:40 <nescience> i was saying you don't have to expand it at all
18:51:51 <ehird> yes you do, to handle the cycle count
18:51:52 <nescience> but also that the ({}) syntax is necessary to do so
18:52:13 <ehird> nescience: then tell me.
18:52:16 <nescience> you simply don't count non instructions towards the number of cycles
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18:52:26 <nescience> what would you like me to tell you?
18:52:50 <ehird> nescience: how do you not expand it
18:52:55 <ehird> (+)*57 takes 57 cycles
18:53:21 <ehird> so how do you avoid expanding
18:53:44 <nescience> when you reach ), increase the counter; if it == N, then proceed, else go back to (
18:53:52 <ehird> so what advantages does this have over preëxpanding, other than using a measly 100MB less memory?
18:54:20 <nescience> the time spent to expand to that 100mb every battle (or store it)
18:54:33 <nescience> which is what is currently making EgoBot unusable
18:54:46 <nescience> and the lack of an arbitrary program length limit
18:54:46 <ehird> nescience: i can expand 100mb in like a few miliseconds.
18:54:51 <ehird> I'm just going to store it
18:55:13 <nescience> because of the nature of brainfuck, some programs are simply going to be extremely long
18:55:19 <nescience> and you are basically saying "nope, not doin it"
18:55:24 <ehird> it stands to reason that chickens are green?
18:55:32 <ehird> you're not giving me any arguments why 100mb programs are needed
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18:55:51 <nescience> because that's how many insructions it takes to do certain things?
18:55:58 <Deewiant> No point in doing it until it's necessary, unless it's trivial
18:56:00 <nescience> i can give you some code later if you like
18:56:06 <ehird> do show me this amazing 100mb warrior
18:56:20 <nescience> i don't know the exact expansion size, but from earlier:
18:56:51 <nescience> >(+)*20>(-)*20>+>->+>->+>-(>[[-+++++++++++++++++[-.]]+>]+)*20 <- this program tops the hill
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18:57:02 <nescience> the 2 ties are because of polarity, so i was attempting to beat them too
18:57:14 <nescience> to do that i needed to do the -. loop a fixed number of times
18:57:17 <nescience> which means i hae to do something like:
18:57:34 <ehird> not even a KILOBYTE
18:57:38 <ehird> let along 1024KB = 1MB
18:57:50 <nescience> i'm explaining the reasoning and necessity
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18:57:51 <nescience> >(+)*20>(-)*20>+>->+>->+>-(>[[-+++++++++++++++++([-.{}([+.{}])*3000])*3000]+>]+)*20
18:58:05 <nescience> that one is broken but expands to like 4 bytes * 3000 * 3000 + something * 20
18:58:21 <nescience> the fix requires another nested loop
18:58:31 <nescience> which again exponentially increases the size
18:58:36 <ehird> nescience: let's say something=1000
18:58:36 <nescience> i didn't bother with the fix because it wouldn't work on EgoBot
18:59:25 <nescience> now take that and add another expansion like i said :P
18:59:44 <nescience> i doubt *3000, but i don't know, i haven't thought it out yet
18:59:47 <Deewiant> What's with those {}, aren't they ignored
18:59:56 <ehird> that's 100 gigabytes
19:00:05 <ehird> to hell with that :)
19:00:14 <nescience> it's definitely not gonna be *3000
19:00:32 <nescience> but my point is no expansion is necessary at all and such programs can be supported
19:00:41 <nescience> and are also within reason necessary to accomplish certain goals
19:00:51 <ehird> Deewiant: define h
19:01:19 <nescience> but apparently to you it makes more sense to expand that ~100 byte program to ~100 megs
19:01:24 <nescience> so uhh i guess there's not much i can do for you
19:01:32 <Deewiant> ehird: Whoever's chatting behind the nick nescience
19:01:45 <ehird> nescience: it seems like a lot of work for barely any game
19:01:57 <ehird> i mean... it's not as if we all have 64K of ram.
19:02:24 <Deewiant> It's pretty much the same amount of work as parsing the * in the first place
19:02:24 <nescience> 2) the gain is the lack of an arbitrary limit on what you can and can't write
19:02:30 <ehird> i don't understand it and you've explained it 3 times :-)
19:02:34 -!- max has joined.
19:02:34 <nescience> it requiers a counter and 2 pointers
19:02:51 <nescience> probably a stack for the counters or whatever
19:03:00 -!- max has changed nick to Guest65774.
19:03:01 <ehird> just tell me the algorithm :)
19:03:23 -!- Taejo has quit (Nick collision from services.).
19:03:26 -!- Guest65774 has changed nick to Taejo.
19:03:29 <nescience> an in the end, hell, being wasteful just because you can is never a great agrument
19:03:48 <nescience> well, since () are used in two contexts you need to identify ahead of time which it is
19:04:01 <nescience> for ({})%N, all you do is keep a loop counter as before
19:04:05 <ehird> nescience: wait, okay, question
19:04:08 <Deewiant> Jump to the ) and look at whether it's % or *
19:04:10 <ehird> why is ({}) necessary in this
19:04:12 <nescience> when you hit } increase it, if it == N, continue on; otherwise jump to (
19:04:31 <nescience> if you hit ) decrease it, if it == 0, continue on; otherwise jump to }
19:05:03 <nescience> the reason ({}) is necessary for non-expanding interpretation is because otherwise you don't know how many times to execute the *N affecting the ] corresponding to a [
19:05:20 <nescience> handle [] like you would if ({}) wasn't even there, as long as they are balanced inside the () they will work fine
19:05:42 <ehird> i don't see why (a[)*Nb(]c)*N wouldn't work
19:05:57 <nescience> ok, assume for a moment that before you execute a[ N times, one of the [ fails
19:06:04 <ehird> nescience: "fails"?
19:06:05 <nescience> you are then going to skip all subsequently expanded code
19:06:10 <ehird> like what, it gets all creaky?
19:06:21 <nescience> thus do not execute the contents of the brackets
19:06:25 <nescience> including the rest of the expansions
19:06:36 <nescience> you can't expand it N times, because that's too many
19:06:50 <nescience> you can't rely on the data to determine how many times to expand it, because it must match the a[
19:06:55 <ehird> Deewiant: is this making sense to you? maybe you could help me understand...
19:06:58 <nescience> in short, you're screwed (unless you expand it all ahead of time)
19:07:15 <Deewiant> ehird: See last line above :-P
19:07:36 <Deewiant> ehird: 2009-05-28 21:06:58 ( nescience) in short, you're screwed (unless you expand it all ahead of time)
19:07:46 <ehird> Deewiant: that is not explanatory.
19:07:50 <nescience> if the 2nd [ expands on a 0, you skip the bolded parts:
19:08:12 <nescience> which means you need to execute "c]c" and no more no less
19:08:38 <ehird> yes, that's obv— no, it's not
19:08:38 <nescience> there's no sensible way to get "c]c" out of (]c)*3
19:08:45 <Deewiant> ehird: Well, looks like he's trying to explain what should happen with (a[)*Nb(]c)*N, and saying that you're somewhat screwed with the looping technique
19:08:55 <ehird> Deewiant: I know what he's trying to say.
19:08:59 <ehird> I just don't understand _what_ he's saying.
19:09:01 <Deewiant> ehird: So what do you want explained
19:09:07 <nescience> i'm sorry, i'm on limited time and i am trying to be quick
19:09:15 <ehird> I'll read it 70 times :P
19:09:16 <nescience> i can explain with more patience and detail later if you actually want
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19:10:23 <Deewiant> ehird: In a[a[>a[b]c]<c]c, the area delimited by the >< is skipped if the second [ finds 0
19:10:34 <ehird> Okay okay stop it you are just repeating him
19:10:46 <Deewiant> ehird: Did you understand that?
19:11:07 <Deewiant> Or alternatively, what don't you understand :-P
19:11:24 <ehird> English! Am foreign no americano.
19:12:21 <ehird> I take it back, whatever I said.
19:13:19 <Deewiant> ehird: So, in (a[)*3b(]c)*3 if the second time through the loop the [ finds zero, you'd need to execute c]c to preserve the semantics
19:13:33 <Deewiant> But, how do you figure that out without expanding all of the code
19:17:22 <nescience> damn, EgoBot still hasn't recovered
19:17:48 <Asztal> Guess they're not real processes then
19:18:30 <Asztal> what did you do to it, anyway?
19:20:01 -!- ehird has quit (Remote closed the connection).
19:20:13 -!- ehird has joined.
19:20:30 <EgoBot> /tmp/input.11841: line 1: pidof: command not found
19:21:03 <ehird> sticking to 80 columns with tabs @ size 8 kills me
19:21:06 <ehird> but my code thanks me
19:21:17 <ehird> 19:20 ehird: Disconnecting from stoned server.
19:21:22 <ehird> erm my bouncer doesn't like potheads
19:23:39 <ehird> let's say you have a for loop, looping through a thing
19:23:43 <ehird> and inside, a switch on its value, right?
19:23:54 <ehird> at some point you want a conditional in one of these cases
19:23:59 <ehird> you know, just to make sure everything's okay
19:24:03 <ehird> fprintf(stderr, "Unmatched ] in %s.\n", filename);
19:24:07 <ehird> KRRRRRRRRRR OVER 80 COLUMNS
19:24:22 <nescience> i submitted that code with the *3000s earlier
19:24:29 <nescience> but i replaced it with the original slowrush so it wouldn't slow things down
19:24:42 <nescience> ehird submitted some trash earlier, but i didn't think he expanded simple ()*Ns
19:24:45 <nescience> so i don't really know what's wrong
19:24:57 <ehird> nescience: i charge you with not being sympathetic to my pain.
19:25:53 <ehird> in fact, it's only 4 indents
19:25:58 <ehird> that's within Linus's law
19:25:59 -!- psygnisf_ has joined.
19:26:05 <ehird> I HATE YOUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUUU :|
19:26:32 <Deewiant> ehird: You put the switch in a separate function
19:26:59 <ehird> Deewiant: Aha. BUT! The switch mutates a local variable SOMETIMES.
19:27:04 <ehird> Also, in one case it does a continue;.
19:27:14 <ehird> Deewiant: IT ALREADY IS A POINTER
19:27:21 <ehird> I'm not going to go around like a dolt going (*ins)->
19:27:24 <ehird> I AM A ONE-STAR PROGRAMMER.
19:27:37 <Deewiant> I'm an aleph-null-star programmer
19:28:18 <ehird> Deewiant: but i did put it in another function
19:28:33 <ehird> the continue; stops ins++ happening after the switch (but in the for)
19:28:37 <ehird> the rest just break; out from the switch
19:28:47 <ehird> i can't think of a nice way to handle that
19:28:58 <ehird> I already return ins— oh, wait.
19:29:02 <ehird> Yeah. Yeah, that would work.
19:29:11 <ehird> Deewiant: BUT! But. No, wait, that's fine.
19:29:26 <Deewiant> FWIW it sounds like it's actually quite crap :-P
19:29:36 <ehird> It's just a parser man
19:29:46 <Deewiant> All this mucking about just to avoid a level 4 indentation level
19:29:56 <Deewiant> Sounds like it's obfuscating the code quite a bit
19:29:57 <ehird> Deewiant: I don't want to avoid that
19:30:08 <ehird> Deewiant: It's just that my code had some seriously long lines before.
19:30:15 <ehird> So I'm refactoring it like crazy to 80 columns.
19:30:17 <ehird> It seems to be helping.
19:30:38 <Deewiant> Yeah, I'm just saying that in this instance it sounds like it's just making things worse
19:31:08 <ehird> Deewiant: haha, except this function needs a parameter from the caller :-)
19:31:13 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: No. Soon.
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19:33:33 <ehird> Deewiant: Oh, I just realised that making a new struct would help here.
19:33:48 <Deewiant> ehird: Damn, I was just about to suggest that :-P
19:33:54 <ehird> Specifically, almost all the parameters can be passed around in one struct.
19:34:07 <Deewiant> Yep, that's what I was guessing
19:34:15 * ehird underlines the already-existing note in eir mental refactoring cookbook: When in doubt, add more data structures.
19:37:09 <ehird> 'Nother thing (mostly aesthetic): Don't use structs without pointers. Generally. Because -> vs .'s ugly.
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19:37:20 <ehird> It has been a while since I wrote a C program.
19:40:53 <ehird> Deewiant: Heh. Also, one of them breaks out from the enclosing loop :-D
19:41:07 <ehird> But I can do that with a return parameter, as the original one is handled by the function itself
19:41:13 <bsmntbombdood> yes, i like to do (&foo)->bar just to avoid that ugly .
19:44:15 <ehird> Deewiant: guess what
19:44:23 <ehird> adding a struct changed filename to parser->filename in the printf
19:44:26 <ehird> thus bringing it— wait for it—
19:44:29 <ehird> back over 80 columns
19:44:50 <Deewiant> Well, printfs can usually be broken over multiple lines
19:45:03 <Deewiant> Unless parser->filename itself exceeds 80 columns at that indentation level
19:45:13 <ehird> fprintf(stderr, "Unmatched ] in %s.\n",
19:45:14 <ehird> parser->filename); /* this makes me feel like a
19:45:36 <ehird> Deewiant: I know, but it's such a trivial statement that it hurts.
19:45:39 <Deewiant> If you have 8 columns' worth I'd line break after stderr
19:46:19 <bsmntbombdood> utterly idiotic questions, no one seems to speak english
19:46:19 <ehird> YAY ANOTHER LEVEL OF INDENTATION FOR FREE
19:47:56 <ehird> lance.c:92: error: conflicting types for ‘parse_inner’
19:47:56 <ehird> lance.c:67: error: previous implicit declaration of ‘parse_inner’ was here
19:47:57 <ehird> ↑ i did parser_inner(parser);, so it inferred the type as void even though that's not mandatory, lawl
19:48:08 <ehird> guess i need a bunch of redundant function declarations
19:48:18 <ehird> bsmntbombdood: a better BF Joust
19:49:51 -!- Judofyr has joined.
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19:51:42 <ehird> so an angel came down to me and said
19:51:48 <ehird> "EHIRD 80 COLUMNS DOESN'T MATTER"
19:51:58 <ehird> and said "FUCK YOU, ANGEL."
19:52:17 <Deewiant> I stick to 80 columns, but with 3-column tabs
19:53:11 <Deewiant> I figure that most people these days don't care about 80 columns and use 4-column tabs, so it's fine for those folks
19:53:35 <ehird> Deewiant: ais523 has been adamant at yelling at me that tabs are defined to be exactly 8 spaces
19:53:42 <ehird> and I have been adamant at replying to him that that's total bullshit and he's wrong.
19:54:01 <ehird> Deewiant: (this is when telling him not to use mixed tabs and spaces because tabs != always 8 spaces)
19:54:04 <Deewiant> Not 8 spaces, they're defined to be "indent to the next column whose position is a multiple of 8"
19:54:25 <ehird> they're defined to be "indent."
19:54:53 <Deewiant> But that's the default position adopted by most tools.
19:56:57 <ehird> ais523 said it was "8 spaces", always, both in theory and practice
19:57:08 <ehird> programs I have here and what tab what was originally meant to mean disagrees
19:58:38 <Deewiant> Upon pondering it a bit, I do think that their definition is "indent to next tab stop" where "tab stops" vary from implementation-defined to freely modifiable by the user
20:03:29 -!- BeholdMyGlory has joined.
20:05:03 <GregorR-L> Wow, how have you people managed to eff up EgoBot :P
20:05:41 <Deewiant> I believe by running bfjoust programs that do tonnes of macro expansion
20:06:05 <Deewiant> Hmm, you can't prefix "I believe" into a sentence like that directly :-/
20:06:31 <EgoBot> Score for ehird_fuck: 12.5
20:06:31 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 13.9
20:06:32 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_scrooge: 11.8
20:06:32 <EgoBot> Score for ehird_turnintoagreenthing: 4.3
20:07:04 <ehird> GregorR-L: so if my super-awesome polarity-makin' tournamentin' mega-fastin' interp is finished, will you use it or should I not bother :-P
20:07:21 <ehird> (yes, nescience, with your magical avoid-expanding-macros thing. <_<)
20:07:33 <GregorR-L> I wrote egojoust because you seemed to have lofty goals.
20:07:58 <ehird> It's donning itself presently.
20:08:02 <ehird> The goals aren't really lofty
20:08:11 <ehird> Just "run the program a fuckload of times then average that"
20:08:49 <ehird> That does not take into account...
20:08:57 <ehird> Any choice between: SIEVE, and: KETTLE!
20:09:10 <GregorR-L> .....................................................
20:09:26 <ehird> GregorR-L: Trust me, it's a good idea. Other players say so. The fact that the names make no fucking sense is irrelevant.
20:09:27 <AnMaster> GregorR, why 21 to be specific
20:09:36 <ehird> AnMaster: 21 possible tape lengths
20:09:42 <ehird> GregorR-L: Just know that it involves reversing dink and donk.
20:09:46 <AnMaster> well that sounds like a good idea too
20:10:01 <ehird> GregorR-L: So it's actually— you will shit your pants— FORTY-TWO runs.
20:10:10 <GregorR-L> But the directions are designed to make no difference.
20:10:12 <ehird> Verily, the spirit of Douglas Adams is in this implementations.
20:10:16 <ehird> GregorR-L: Nothing to do with directions.
20:10:32 <GregorR-L> I don't understand what "polarity" means in this context.
20:10:37 <GregorR-L> Seeing as that you haven't explained it.
20:10:52 <ehird> GregorR-L: Basically, if polarity is sieve, + and - do the normal thing. If polarity is kettle, for one program (either, it doesn't matter), + and - are swapped. This stops you stealing someone's program and swapping +/- and rising to the top of the hill, which is boring, and yet still makes you defend against both [+] and [-], etc.
20:10:54 <AnMaster> GregorR-L, swaps plus and minus.
20:11:03 <ehird> Or, yeah, what AnMaster said, but I explained why.
20:11:20 <ehird> And if you implement that I will sue you for infringing my imaginary patents.
20:11:27 -!- Slereah_ has joined.
20:11:31 <AnMaster> ehird, since we sent them same second *shrug*
20:11:47 <ehird> You know like imaginary numbers, they have a real part and an imaginary part?
20:11:48 <AnMaster> ehird, I never planned to implement joust
20:11:51 <ehird> They have the power of two fucking numbers.
20:11:54 <AnMaster> since I'm like. Not interested in them
20:11:58 <ehird> (AnMaster: I meant GregorR-L, kthx.)
20:12:02 <ehird> GregorR-L: Right? So, imaginary patents,
20:12:04 <ehird> They have the power
20:12:07 <ehird> TWO GODDAMN PATENTS.
20:12:10 <ehird> You don't want to fuck with that.
20:12:21 <AnMaster> <ehird> You know like imaginary numbers, they have a real part and an imaginary part? <-- wrong
20:12:39 <ehird> .........................................
20:12:48 <ehird> AnMaster: Imaginary numbers are a subset of complex numbers.
20:12:54 <ehird> I meant to say complex, but I was not technically wrong.
20:13:04 <ehird> DOUBLE PATENT POWER.
20:13:10 <AnMaster> ehird, the imaginary subset are the ones without real parts
20:13:21 <ehird> AnMaster: No, 0 or <0 real parts.
20:13:28 <GregorR-L> Your face is the one without real parts.
20:13:40 <ehird> GregorR-L: I HAVE AN IMAGINARY PATENT ON YOUR FACE.
20:14:04 <GregorR-L> So, the question is, can you implement this before I can get it into egojoust? X-P
20:14:23 <AnMaster> ehird, right, I wasn't technically wrong either, since in effect you can consider it like "no real part" (and that is how you write them: 2i not 0+2i) OR the technically correct "real part is zero".
20:14:31 <GregorR-L> ehird: What you don't realize is that I'm too lazy to put it in egojoust.
20:14:36 <ehird> AnMaster: Real part is zero OR LESS THAN ZERO.
20:14:44 <ehird> GregorR-L: I HAVE AN IMAGINARY PATENT ON LAZINESS
20:14:57 <ehird> In fact, I have an imaginary patent on everything, including not having an imaginary patent on something.
20:15:05 <ehird> AnMaster: [[Imaginary number]]
20:15:57 <ehird> Okay, now I'm going to imaginary work on my implementation.
20:16:09 <ehird> You know it's true, brotha.
20:16:53 <AnMaster> "Although Descartes originally used the term imaginary number to mean what is currently meant by the term complex number, the term imaginary number today usually means a complex number with a real part equal to 0, that is, a number of the form i·y. Zero (0) is the only number that is both real and imaginary."
20:16:59 <AnMaster> <ehird> AnMaster: [[Imaginary number]] <-- from there
20:17:25 <AnMaster> I can't find where it says "or less than zero"
20:17:50 <psygnisf_> real numbers range from (-inf, +inf)
20:17:58 <AnMaster> "the term imaginary number today usually means a complex number with a real part equal to 0"
20:18:11 <AnMaster> but ehird claims it means "real part equal to zero or less than zero"
20:18:28 <psygnisf_> oh. what? no. an imaginary number is any real multiple of i.
20:18:32 <ehird> [[In mathematics, an imaginary number (or purely imaginary number) is a complex number whose squared value is a real number less than or equal to zero.]]
20:18:57 -!- psygnisf_ has changed nick to psygnisfive.
20:18:58 <AnMaster> ehird, and I'm right (as usual)
20:19:09 <ehird> AnMaster: AND YOU'RE GAY
20:19:10 <AnMaster> I shall forever treasure this moment.
20:19:12 <ehird> AND SO'S YOUR FACE
20:19:41 <AnMaster> ehird, s/AnMaster/psygnisfive/ and at least one of those claims would be correct instead of incorrect.
20:19:52 <ehird> WOW GUYS AMAZING NEWS psygnisfive is *GAY*
20:20:00 <ehird> HOLY HELL HE SEXUALLY PREFERS MEN TO WOMEN. LET'S MENTION IT
20:20:11 <ehird> lawl my parser is O(n^2) because I use strlen() to allocate the result kekekekeke
20:20:27 <ehird> Deewiant: beats reallocating every 3 seconds
20:20:31 <Deewiant> ehird: GCC might actually be able to optimize that away
20:20:38 <ehird> Deewiant: It's user input
20:20:44 <ehird> EgoBot will break if you give it megabytes of raw input anyway
20:20:46 <Deewiant> ehird: I mean, repeated calls to it
20:20:51 <ehird> I only use strlen() once, Deewiant
20:20:56 <ehird> But then I loop thru da string
20:21:02 <psygnisfive> do you happen to know of any really good textbook download sites?
20:21:25 <AnMaster> ehird, sorry, I thought wrote the wrong nick, since the claim wasn't valid for me I considered the other people present and talking. Thus I came to the conclusion you meant psygnisfive. I don't know why you like to mention it.
20:21:28 <ehird> Deewiant: O(n) - strlen(). O(n^2) - looping through the string again.
20:21:37 <ehird> AnMaster: YOU'RE BLACK.
20:21:40 <pikhq> ehird: strlen() has __attribute__((pure)). ;)
20:21:41 <Deewiant> ehird: Uh, how is looping through a string O(n^2)
20:22:08 <pikhq> Deewiant: Which is O(n).
20:22:10 <Deewiant> O(2n) is short for O(2 * n) which is O(n).
20:22:19 <ehird> It's just that "O(n)" is an unhelpful way to say "hay I loop twice"
20:22:39 <nescience> at least i'm back on top of the hill :>
20:22:41 <AnMaster> ehird, technically wrong too. And I don't know anyone in here who is. Since I don't care about skin colour. However you might have meant that my current clothes are indeed black? A pair of black socks. And a black t-shirt.
20:22:53 <Deewiant> Even if it's equal to O(1000n) most people assume that the constant within is meaningful somehow :-P
20:22:56 <pikhq> ehird: If thou wert smart, then thou wouldst keep the string size.
20:22:57 <ehird> AnMaster: THUS YOU ARE BLACK!!!!!!1731263712537638273621873ELEVENTYONE
20:23:05 <ehird> pikhq: Erm, I don't need it again.
20:23:08 <ehird> pikhq: After parser->ins = xmalloc(sizeof(ins_t) * strlen(source));
20:23:12 <ehird> while ((c = *parser->source)) {
20:23:26 <pikhq> struct string {char *cstr;size_t size;};
20:23:29 <ehird> Deewiant: Also known as "goddammit libc, get some fucking error handling system."
20:23:34 <ehird> pikhq: Why?! I only need it once!
20:23:37 <ehird> To allocate the string!
20:23:41 <ehird> What benefit does that get me at all in this case?
20:23:45 <ehird> *allocate the instruction array
20:24:19 <pikhq> xmalloc should have __attribute__((malloc)). :p
20:25:02 <ehird> gcc has an attribute for everything
20:25:04 <AnMaster> ehird, I don't think either "ELEVENTYONE" or any variant of splitting that ("ELEVENTY", "ONE"), ("ELEVEN", "TY", "ONE") or ("ELEVEN" "TYONE") is a valid (set of) number(s).
20:25:06 <ehird> __attribute__((strfry))
20:25:12 <ehird> AnMaster: Shut up.
20:25:15 <pikhq> Informs GCC that any non-NULL pointer it returns doesn't alias with any other valid pointer.
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20:25:43 <Deewiant> __attribute__((solve-halting-problem)) int main();
20:26:04 <ehird> AnMaster: Forty = 40. Fifty = 50. Therefore, foo-ty = foo0. Eleven = 11. Therefore, eleventy = 110. One hundred one = 101. THEREFORE, Eleventy-one = 111.
20:26:07 <Deewiant> I thought gcc has an attribute for everything :-(
20:26:16 <ehird> OMGWTFBBQ HOW COME!!11
20:27:01 <pikhq> You might also want to give that __attribute__((alloc_size(1))).
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20:27:17 <AnMaster> ehird, "Therefore, foo-ty = foo0."
20:27:24 <ehird> and that's = foo*10
20:27:25 <AnMaster> so it would be the non-sense "i0"
20:27:31 <ehird> I was abbreviating informally.
20:27:40 <ehird> But foo-ty is obviously foo*10.
20:27:50 <AnMaster> Deewiant, sure. But according to that definition of ty then 10 is 1*0 :P
20:27:52 <ehird> So ity = i*10 = 10i.
20:29:26 <GregorR-L> Whereas onety and crumpets is 10 + crumpets
20:29:30 <ehird> lance.h:14: warning: comma at end of enumerator list
20:29:32 <ehird> WHY IS THAT A WARNING.
20:29:44 <Deewiant> warning: you appear to be using GCC
20:29:59 <GregorR-L> ehird: I'd say it's because of -pedantic :P
20:30:10 <ehird> GregorR-L: It's not an error. It's not bad. It's good practice, for when you add new values.
20:30:12 <AnMaster> ok... why does -pedantic warn about that...
20:30:22 <GregorR-L> I believe some pre-C89 compilers choke on that.
20:30:25 <ehird> __attribute__((dont_fucking_warn_me_about_that_kind_of_shit_okay_btw_this_applies_to_the_whole_program_you_hear_me_question_mark))
20:30:32 <ehird> ↑ An attribute gcc needs.
20:30:36 <ehird> Deewiant: Yes. I did.
20:30:40 <ehird> CFLAGS = -std=c89 -Wall -pedantic
20:30:49 <ehird> Deewiant: -ansi = -std=c89
20:30:55 <AnMaster> ehird, so you don't allow -march=native there
20:31:04 <ehird> I thought adding -ansi fixed it
20:31:06 <ehird> but I removed the comma
20:31:19 <ehird> AnMaster: Oh, does that like, use i7 on an i7?
20:31:33 <AnMaster> ehird, CFLAGS="-march=native -pipe" make will not use the -march setting in there
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20:31:49 <Deewiant> It optimizes code for the host CPU, allowing code that is invalid for other CPUs
20:31:51 <ehird> AnMaster: What the fuck are you talking about, sir?
20:32:07 <Deewiant> ehird: He's talking about you overriding any outer CFLAGS
20:32:14 <AnMaster> ehird, if that above is your makefile then the cflags user set in environment will be ignored
20:32:19 <AnMaster> which may contain important bits
20:32:28 <ehird> Ehm, I've done CFLAGS=butt since forever.
20:32:28 <AnMaster> like -march, -m32/-m64 and what not
20:32:30 <ehird> Everyone does that.
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20:32:58 <ehird> So, what do I use instead?
20:33:03 <AnMaster> CFLAGS += -std=c89 -Wall -pedantic
20:33:15 <Deewiant> -march=generic? Is that just the default setting?
20:33:21 <ehird> cc -std=c89 -Wall -pedantic -O3 -march=native lance.c -o lance
20:33:53 <ehird> AnMaster: what about defining CC? "CC ?= gcc" doesn't work, as make defines its own default.
20:34:00 <AnMaster> -march defaults to i386 still iirc
20:34:08 <AnMaster> -mtune=generic does "for the most common current cpus"
20:34:29 <GregorR-L> ehird: CC = gcc works, as when people override CC they don't want the CC in the Makefile at all.
20:34:33 <AnMaster> ehird, hm.. It defines it to the CC. User can override it in the environment
20:34:54 <ehird> lance.c:1: error: bad value (native) for -march= switch
20:34:54 <ehird> lance.c:1: error: bad value (native) for -mtune= switch
20:34:58 <ehird> Guess my gcc 4.1 is too old huh?
20:35:05 <ehird> AnMaster: Then it's not very useful for me.
20:35:18 <ehird> pikhq: I know that, but it defines it to cc on most systems, which is stoopid.
20:35:30 <ehird> AnMaster: No, thanks.
20:35:31 <GregorR-L> pikhq: This code clearly will not compile with non-gcc. Esp. with those CFLAGS :P
20:35:35 <pikhq> ehird: And on all systems, cc is the C compiler.
20:35:36 <AnMaster> ehird, it should clearly define it to /usr/bin/c99
20:35:49 <ehird> pikhq: And on all systems, cc takes -O3 -std=c89 -Wall... hmm, wait, no.
20:35:53 <ehird> AnMaster: I don't want to require twiddling for OS X users.
20:35:54 <AnMaster> which is the only one found in POISX 2008 (iirc!)
20:35:59 <ehird> So >gcc4.1 things are out of the question
20:36:12 <pikhq> And that's why you probably shouldn't define CFLAGS. :p
20:36:13 <AnMaster> ehird, right. But the -march=native was for what user defines in envrionment
20:36:21 <AnMaster> your makefile should respect it
20:36:27 <ehird> 20:36 pikhq: And that's why you probably shouldn't define CFLAGS. :p ← youuuuuuuuu're barmy
20:36:44 <ehird> if nobody defined cflags everyone would get -O0, warningless compiles :)
20:36:47 <GregorR-L> This is why you should use autoconf.
20:36:52 <ehird> GregorR-L: HAHAHAHA
20:36:55 <AnMaster> ehird, on legacy systems like OS X the user would define CFLAGS to be something like -march=core2 (or is the gcc too old for that as well?)
20:37:07 <ehird> AnMaster: ehird, on legacy systems like OS X ← ENOTREADINGRESTOFLINES
20:37:15 <pikhq> ehird: You're making portability damned difficult. I HATE yOU FOR THAT.
20:37:15 <ehird> Also, you have to use gcc-4.2(1) to use -march=core2 :P
20:37:28 <ehird> AnMaster: So was mine
20:37:35 <ehird> Also, there are non-Core2 current Macs.
20:37:45 <ehird> The Mac Pro uses Xeon Nehalems.
20:37:47 <AnMaster> ehird, then they define -march=whatever
20:37:53 <ehird> AnMaster: I know, I know.
20:37:59 <ehird> pikhq: yeah they have to change one line in the makefile :)))
20:38:01 <pikhq> GregorR-L: He seems to think that everyone runs GCC, and specific versions of it at that.
20:38:12 <ehird> I just said I wasn't using anything >gcc4.1.
20:38:18 <GregorR-L> pikhq: That's because everyone does run GCC :P
20:38:23 <pikhq> And for that, I keel you.
20:38:24 <ehird> pikhq: Are you SERIOUSLY arguing that I should not define CFLAGS?
20:38:34 <ehird> Is your MIND on a SATELLITE in OUTER SPACE?
20:38:35 <AnMaster> <pikhq> GregorR-L: He seems to think that everyone runs GCC, and specific versions of it at that. <-- ehird? Seems so
20:38:37 <pikhq> That's what autotools is for.
20:38:39 <ehird> Is it communicating with your body from down here?
20:38:47 <ehird> the distance is so long
20:38:50 <AnMaster> ehird, anyway that makefile isn't going to work at all with icc!
20:38:50 <ehird> I'd better keep the thoughts short
20:38:55 <ehird> So let's not define any CFLAGS!
20:39:00 <ehird> Also, use autohell.
20:39:06 <AnMaster> ehird, so you better check if you have GCC before you add the cflags
20:39:08 <ehird> That's always a good idea. Replace a 15 line makefile.
20:39:12 <ehird> With the autotools shitfest.
20:39:16 <AnMaster> you can add -O<number> usually
20:39:26 <AnMaster> c99 [-c][-D name[=value]]...[-E][-g][-I directory] ... [-L directory]
20:39:26 <AnMaster> ... [-o outfile][-Ooptlevel][-s][-U name]... operand ...
20:39:27 <ehird> This is pikhq's satellite brain, reporting from dumbville, in orbit around Earth!
20:39:31 <AnMaster> that is what POSIX says about syntax
20:39:34 <GregorR-L> Replace a 15 line makefile with a 3 line makefile and an automatically generated autoconf.ac? :P
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20:39:50 <pikhq> For such a simple program, Autotools is easy.
20:39:58 <ehird> ARGH YOU PEOPLE ACTUALLY ADVOCATE AUTOTOOLS I'M GOING TO JUMP OFF MY ROOF YOU'RE ALL EVIL PEOPLE WHO ARE RUINING SOFTWARE
20:40:02 <pikhq> Cmake is also acceptable.
20:40:09 <ehird> ANYONE WHO USES AUTOTOOLS WILL FEEL MY WRATH
20:40:33 <GregorR-L> cd ehird/ && ./configure --without-annoyingness && make -j6
20:40:38 <AnMaster> about 5 or 6 lines cmake script if you want to "add cflags if gcc".
20:40:43 <ehird> GregorR-L: THERE IS ONLY ONE FUCKING TARGET
20:40:51 <ehird> HOW CAN YOU RUN ONE TARGET 6 TIMES AT ONCE
20:41:03 <Deewiant> ehird: For multiple target CPUs!
20:41:03 <pikhq> ehird: Run your code on more than two targets and you will thank Autotools.
20:41:08 <GregorR-L> ehird: You're saying that you're one file? :P
20:41:10 <ehird> AnMaster: for "make clean" :P
20:41:21 <AnMaster> Deewiant, that requires separate configurations
20:41:23 <ehird> CFLAGS += -std=c89 -Wall -pedantic
20:41:34 <ehird> lance: lance.c lance.h
20:41:36 <ehird> @$(CC) $(CFLAGS) $< -o $@
20:41:42 <ehird> AND JUST USING C89!
20:41:44 <ehird> ARE YOU, pikhq, SERIOUSLY SUGGESTING I NEED AUTOTOOLS, CONFIG.H, PARALLEL MAKE,
20:41:48 <ehird> IFDEFS EVERYWHERE,
20:41:50 <ehird> PORTABLE ACROSS C COMPILERS TO AVOID WRITING ONE MORE LINE
20:41:54 <ehird> WHERE IS YOUR MIND! >______<
20:42:17 <pikhq> ehird: I'm saying that you need to write your code right, or else I kill you.
20:42:22 <ehird> AnMaster: The pot that pikhq is on.
20:42:24 <pikhq> This is the road that leads to IRAF.
20:42:31 <ehird> It seems to be some pretty potent shit.
20:42:35 <pikhq> Not familiar with IRAF?
20:42:37 <GregorR-L> THIS IS THE ROAD THE LEADS TO IRAQ
20:42:48 <pikhq> Get its code, and weep.
20:42:50 <GregorR-L> Anybody who doesn't use autotools is a TRRRRRIST
20:43:05 <pikhq> I spent a fucking month trying to get it to build right.
20:43:15 <ehird> Hahahahaha pikhq is lecturing me about not using autotools and using portability macros and using multiple files and not making sure my 15-line makefile handles all c compilers even though I use c89.
20:43:16 <pikhq> Working full-time on it.
20:43:18 <AnMaster> ehird, so that will cross compile to ARM correctly. The cross toolchain running on a SPARC. (The cross toolchain targeting ARM was compiled on a MIPS btw)?
20:43:19 <ehird> This is hilarious.
20:43:22 <ehird> He is batshit insane.
20:43:28 <ehird> AnMaster: Should do.
20:43:29 <AnMaster> (the last statement there didn't matter)
20:43:33 <ehird> It's just fucking C89!
20:43:44 <Deewiant> ehird: Just use a GNU extension in your code and you'll satisfy him
20:43:50 <AnMaster> icc: command line remark #10148: option '-pedantic' not supported
20:44:00 <ehird> AnMaster: No. "icc -O3 lance.c -o lance"
20:44:04 <ehird> Oh snap that was *hard*
20:44:06 <ehird> Deewiant: Okay, I'll prefix a random function name with g.
20:44:06 <pikhq> ehird: For a such a simple project, autotools is trivial.
20:44:16 <AnMaster> ehird, um "<ehird> CFLAGS += -std=c89 -Wall -pedantic" above
20:44:17 <ehird> pikhq: I WANT TO STOMP ON YOUR BRAINS ;_;
20:44:23 <ehird> AnMaster: So don't use the god damn Makefile.
20:44:34 <AnMaster> ehird, lets see what clang does here...
20:44:55 <ehird> You guys have driven me to suicide for the 5,000th time.
20:44:58 * AnMaster boots the computer with them on
20:45:07 <pikhq> AnMaster: djgpp, too.
20:45:09 <ehird> GregorR-L: Altair BASIC
20:45:15 <ehird> See what Altair BASIC does to it
20:45:31 <pikhq> ehird: We've been naming things that we actually test code on. ;)
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20:45:37 <AnMaster> anyway I don't have turbo c, msvc or any of the other ones
20:45:40 <ehird> pikhq: Exactly, Altair BASIC.
20:45:45 <ehird> I bet it doesn't run my unportable code.
20:45:46 <pikhq> GregorR-L: I seem to recall that you tested CPlof on DJGPP.
20:45:59 <AnMaster> <pikhq> ehird: We've been naming things that we actually test code on. ;) <-- indeed
20:46:04 <GregorR-L> pikhq: But it used a different build system, because I'm not a lunatic :P
20:46:05 <ehird> pikhq: i'm even planning to include a volatile asm with the body "nop" in my code
20:46:08 <ehird> GRATUITOUS UNPORTABILITY
20:46:15 <pikhq> GregorR-L: Fair enough.
20:46:45 <GregorR-L> ehird: See, it's fair enough when I do it, it's only when you do it that it's bad.
20:46:51 <pikhq> ehird: I GET PAID TO MAKE STUFF WORK RIGHT. I HATE YOU AND SENTENCE YOU TO 50 YEARS OF PORTING YOUR CODE TO DIFFERENT ARCHITECTURES WITHOUT USING MORE THAN MAKE.
20:47:07 <AnMaster> $ ~/local/tcc/bin/tcc -std=c89 -Wall -pedantic -g -O3 -o hello hello.c
20:47:07 <AnMaster> tcc: invalid option -- '-std=c89'
20:47:08 <ehird> pikhq: I THINK THE PROBLEM HERE IS THAT YOUR JOB SUCKS
20:47:08 <GregorR-L> pikhq: I had that job at Intel for a while :P
20:47:15 <AnMaster> $ ~/local/tcc/bin/tcc -Wall -pedantic -g -O3 -o hello hello.c
20:47:15 <AnMaster> tcc: invalid option -- '-pedantic'
20:47:28 <AnMaster> other than that the flags work for it
20:47:32 <pikhq> GregorR-L: Well aware.
20:47:37 <pikhq> I ran into your boss last year. :p
20:47:52 <GregorR-L> pikhq: Oh yeah, I remember you saying something about that.
20:48:00 <AnMaster> $ icc -std=c89 -Wall -pedantic -g -O3 -o hello hello.c
20:48:01 <AnMaster> icc: command line remark #10148: option '-pedantic' not supported
20:48:01 <ehird> GregorR-L: AnMaster yelled at me just because I'm going to buy an Intel processor, I guess working for them is too evil for him to even comment on :)
20:48:02 <Deewiant> ehird: What I'd probably do is put the warning stuff only when DEBUG
20:48:26 <AnMaster> opencc manages it, since it is based on a GCC frontend
20:48:38 <Deewiant> So when your average Joe builds, he won't get that.
20:48:45 <pikhq> Kinda funny. I mentioned Brainfuck. He mentioned "Oh, yeah... Someone who worked for me, Gregor, did that, too." "... Gregor Richards?" "... Yes..."
20:48:46 <AnMaster> $ ~/local/llvm/bin/clang-cc -std=c89 -Wall -pedantic -g -O3 -o hello hello.c
20:48:46 <GregorR-L> ehird: I worked in their "software portability and converting healthy infants into processor cleaning cloths" department.
20:49:08 <ehird> GregorR-L: At least you didn't DO UNSCRUPULOUS MARKETING PRACTICES
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20:49:18 <ehird> A $1bn fine just isn't enough, we have to boycott them forever too.
20:49:30 <pikhq> GregorR-L: I'm a sys-admin. Most of what I actually *do* involves RPM, though.
20:49:50 <pikhq> ehird: For the only sane RPM distro.
20:49:59 <ehird> pikhq: Paradox detected.
20:50:05 <AnMaster> pikhq, what company was that at
20:50:07 <pikhq> Mandriva does RPM well.
20:50:20 <ehird> AnMaster: No, GregorR-L worked for Intel.
20:50:24 <pikhq> AnMaster: What, where I ran into Gregor's boss?
20:50:24 <ehird> You have serious multithreading issues.
20:50:29 <pikhq> I was sent to USENIX.
20:50:53 <AnMaster> pikhq, I meant, from what company he was
20:51:07 <ehird> GregorR-L worked at Intel.
20:51:10 <ehird> pikhq found GregorR-L's boss.
20:51:14 <ehird> Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm what company could it be
20:51:17 <AnMaster> ehird, THAT IS WHAT I ASKED ABOUT YES!
20:51:22 <ehird> YOU DID NOT USE UPPER-CASE, NO.
20:52:05 <AnMaster> ehird, I missed the bit about Intel due to working on testing the flags in various compilers
20:52:10 * ehird actually uses the int[pointer] equivalent
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20:52:34 <AnMaster> ehird, so congrats, that makefile will work in gcc and open64, it will compile with a warning with icc. Apart from that it won't work.
20:52:39 <ehird> lance.c:92: warning: format ‘%p’ expects type ‘void *’, but argument 3 has type ‘struct _ins_t *’
20:52:46 <ehird> -pedantic is shit :)
20:52:54 <AnMaster> ehird, that isn't pedantic iirc
20:52:59 <ehird> -Wall is shit then
20:53:17 <AnMaster> ehird, -Wall -Wextra -pedantic ?
20:53:28 <ehird> AnMaster: http://pastie.org/493136.txt?key=yu7xd3arlhs9vpb0ds1zg ← I think I have some parse tree issues
20:54:04 <AnMaster> ehird, what program is it parsing
20:54:06 <ehird> -Wextra is a bumbling pile of shit. Citation: Linus.
20:54:10 <ehird> AnMaster: [>[-]+] :-P
20:54:14 <ehird> I just don't add an EOF node.
20:54:23 <ehird> So it runs off the edge of the atpe.
20:54:44 <AnMaster> ehird, wait. that is a trace, no the parse tree?
20:54:57 <ehird> it's a parse tree that has no "OK STOP NOW" node
20:55:07 <ehird> so it runs into random memory, and here's the fun part:
20:55:21 <ehird> ins->op["+-><[].@"] (wrong way around for shits and giggles, this is a debug function)
20:55:26 <ehird> now, when we get into random memory
20:55:31 <ehird> we then dereference that random memory in my limited size array
20:55:33 <ehird> which is too small
20:55:35 <ehird> so we use random memory
20:55:38 <ehird> to access more random memory
20:55:44 <AnMaster> ehird, it isn't wrong way around. It is perfectly valid
20:55:50 <ehird> So we get the opcodes c, o, invisible, invisible, invisible.
20:55:53 <ehird> AnMaster: "unintuitive" then
20:56:22 <AnMaster> ehird, easy enough to parse. Doesn't cause any major issues with that.
20:56:42 <ehird> It's just, you know, ridiculous
20:56:52 <ehird> (you mean i[ptr] right?)
20:57:05 <AnMaster> "+-><[].@"[ins->op] looks even ridiculouslyer
20:57:24 <AnMaster> I'm not used to indexing a string literal in code
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20:57:47 <AnMaster> the common way tends to be "static const char foo[] = "+-><[].@"
20:57:56 <ehird> as I said, debug code
20:58:22 * ehird notes that he's relying on malloc to give him zeroed memory, and fixes that
20:58:32 <AnMaster> ehird, what happens if the source contains an a
20:58:49 <AnMaster> looks like ins->op["+-><[].@"] will fail then
20:59:10 <ehird> yay, prints correctly now
20:59:16 <ehird> I just have to make it not rely on malloc zeroing :P
20:59:27 <ehird> Which is irritating, as I do parser->ins++ wantonly quite a lot.
20:59:48 <ehird> No, just advance_parser(parser) instead of parser->ins++
21:00:05 <AnMaster> malloc + handle garbage correctly is the best way
21:00:11 <ehird> That doesn't handle the first one, but I can set that manually.
21:00:15 <ehird> Not the prettiest, but meh.
21:01:01 <AnMaster> "most significant nibble".... Where on earth did I see that recently...
21:02:44 <AnMaster> imagine. a short with PDP-endianness for the nibbles!
21:02:59 <AnMaster> (short being 16 bit here, but probably shouldn't!)
21:03:07 <ehird> i used to think endian was at bit-level
21:03:09 * pikhq ponders middle-endian architectures
21:03:16 <AnMaster> ehird, there are system with bitendianness
21:03:29 <ehird> 2 = 0100000000000000000000000000000
21:03:30 <AnMaster> ehird, but on most systems you can't address individual bits
21:03:48 <pikhq> Sure you can. << and >> FTW.
21:03:59 <AnMaster> pikhq, yes. But not as in memory address...
21:04:07 <AnMaster> which is what is relevant here
21:04:27 <AnMaster> bit-endianness isn't relevant when you can't access it like that in memory
21:04:42 * pikhq proposes that x86_128 reuse segment notation for bit addressing. :p
21:04:58 <ehird> Okay, parsing done. I do not handle (foo)*N or (foo{bar}baz)%N yet. Those can wait.
21:05:04 <AnMaster> << and >> (and their corresponding asm opcodes) are defined in terms of arithmetics. Not in terms of memory address...
21:05:07 <ehird> Time for some hot lovin'^W^Winterpreting.
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21:05:50 <AnMaster> pikhq, also I think it might be useful with 128 bit GPs, while still being 64 bit.
21:06:36 <AnMaster> what has that got to do with this
21:06:58 <AnMaster> suggestion PDP-endianness on all levels!
21:07:17 -!- Slereah has joined.
21:07:52 <AnMaster> as in, each nibble having such for the bits, then each byte that for the nibbles, each word that for the bytes
21:08:09 <ehird> nescience: gimme a crappy tiny bf joust warrior that isn't [>[-]+]
21:08:45 <Deewiant> ehird: Grab the http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/
21:08:56 <ehird> Deewiant: Those are neither crappy nor tiny
21:09:04 <ehird> Also some use ()*N and ()%N.
21:09:10 <AnMaster> ehird, [>[-]+] will always run off the end of the tape
21:09:33 <ehird> AnMaster: It wins when it sets the flag to 0, duh.
21:09:36 <AnMaster> ehird, since flag needs to be 0 two cycles in a row
21:09:45 <ehird> [-]-]-]-(it's zero)](you won!)
21:09:54 <ehird> Deewiant: Eh, sure.
21:10:14 <AnMaster> http://esolangs.org/wiki/BF_Joust
21:10:23 <ehird> AnMaster: I just explained why it works
21:10:28 <AnMaster> "A program does not lose due to its flag becoming 0 unless its flag is 0 at the end of two consecutive cycles"
21:10:35 <ehird> You're dense on purpose, aren't you
21:10:36 <ehird> [-]-]-]-(it's zero)](you won!)
21:10:45 <ehird> Set to zero by -, another cycle passes by ], and you win.
21:11:26 <EgoBot> Score for GregorR-L_lunatic: 9.1
21:11:55 <GregorR-L> Probably others ran off the tape in <128 cycles *shrugs*
21:12:32 <ehird> !bfjoust loony_tick (-)*128[-]
21:12:37 <EgoBot> Score for ehird_loony_tick: 9.1
21:12:45 <ehird> What's shade do again?
21:12:57 <Deewiant> Beats me, I don't look at them
21:13:07 <EgoBot> Score for GregorR-L_dysfunctional: 9.5
21:13:25 <ehird> !bfjoust i_will_just_wait_here_okay []HI GUYS WHAT'S UP oh, oh I lost. Dayum.
21:13:31 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_dysfunctional: 5.7
21:13:32 <EgoBot> Score for ehird_i_will_just_wait_here_okay: 5.7
21:13:35 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_lethargic: 6.2
21:13:45 <ehird> Letting yourself be raped is better than masturbation, this shows.
21:13:52 <ehird> Case in point: loony_tick does better than i_will_just_wait_here_okay.
21:13:54 <ehird> And doing better is BAD!
21:14:01 <ehird> This is good logic okay.
21:14:10 <ehird> What. Are you all looking at me for.
21:14:15 <EgoBot> Score for GregorR-L_pensive: 11.0
21:14:48 <AnMaster> 0 | 0 0 - - - - 0 0 0 0 - - - - - - - - - + | 6.2 | -12 | AnMaster_lethargic.bfjoust
21:14:50 <ehird> !bfjoust i_like_big_butts_and_i_cannot_lie ([{-}])%1024 ← this is my butt
21:14:53 <EgoBot> Score for ehird_i_like_big_butts_and_i_cannot_lie: 12.4
21:15:04 <ehird> !bfjoust i_like_big_butts_and_i_cannot_lie ([-{++}-])%1024 ← this is my butt
21:15:08 <EgoBot> Score for ehird_i_like_big_butts_and_i_cannot_lie: 12.6
21:15:23 <Deewiant> I guess shade assumes the first nonzero it comes across is a decoy, or something
21:16:02 <EgoBot> Score for GregorR-L_loser: 14.9
21:16:10 <ehird> !bfjoust shade_needs_to_get_laid http://pastie.org/493170.txt?key=6e0w9h8pg7tbirpusvxta
21:16:14 <EgoBot> Score for ehird_shade_needs_to_get_laid: 46.6
21:16:16 <ehird> It's totally bitch-assing.
21:16:34 <AnMaster> ehird, how does that one work?
21:16:42 <ehird> AnMaster: s/[-]/[(-)*128[-]]/ shade
21:16:49 <ehird> It's totally bitch-assing.
21:17:01 <Deewiant> Oh right, that was the one that was manually expanded because the interpreter was broken
21:17:19 <ehird> Bitch-ass land!!!!!1
21:17:33 <AnMaster> GregorR-L, your interpreter doesn't handle it?
21:17:51 <GregorR-L> I'm sure it would handle it, maybe it just wasn't good enough.
21:17:57 <AnMaster> GregorR, wasn't it the one that made it slow down to a trickle?
21:18:32 <ehird> Okay, interpreter loop time.
21:18:41 <ehird> Sirs and gentlemens, I'd like to talk about interpreter loops.
21:18:45 <ehird> Y'see... they're bitch-assing.
21:19:35 <AnMaster> seems like http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/myndzi_slowrush.bfjoust is the best current one?
21:20:14 <ehird> !bfjoust the_unknowable_reversi_of_slowrush >(-)*20>(+)*20>->+>->+>->+(>[[+-----------------[+.]]->]-)*20
21:20:19 <EgoBot> Score for ehird_the_unknowable_reversi_of_slowrush: 67.0
21:20:31 <ehird> GOOD ENOUGH FOR JESUS, GOOD ENOUGH FOR ME
21:20:49 <ehird> do you have a highlight on jesus?
21:20:59 <AnMaster> ehird, you only do reversed ones...
21:21:06 <ehird> AnMaster: Not true.
21:21:16 <ehird> My reversed ones are the only ones that don't get knocked off the hill.
21:21:39 <AnMaster> ehird, reversed ones are cheating
21:21:44 <GregorR-L> !bfjoust yodelin_bob_farbenhowm (<)*128
21:21:48 <EgoBot> Score for GregorR-L_yodelin_bob_farbenhowm: 2.9
21:22:01 <ehird> AnMaster: My interp makes reversed programs = unreversed ones.
21:22:08 * GregorR-L wonders why that's 2.9 instead of 0.
21:22:23 <ehird> !bfjoust mc_buttfuck_went_to_town ]
21:22:28 <EgoBot> Score for ehird_mc_buttfuck_went_to_town: 16.0
21:22:39 <Sgeo> ...is that even valid?
21:22:52 <EgoBot> Score for GregorR-L_does_not_parse: 2.9
21:22:53 <ehird> Whaaaaaaat the fuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuck
21:22:54 <ehird> 9 | 0 0 - - - 0 0 0 + + - - - - - - - - - + | 16.0 | -9 | ehird_mc_buttfuck_went_to_town.bfjoust
21:23:01 <ehird> 8 | - - - - + - + - - - - + + + + + - + - + | 48.2 | -2 | ehird_defend8mwahahaha.bfjoust
21:23:08 <ehird> 10 | - - + + + + + + + - - + - 0 - - - - - - | 42.3 | -3 | ehird_shade_needs_to_get_laid.bfjoust
21:23:10 <AnMaster> 3 | - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - | 2.9 | -20 | GregorR-L_yodelin_bob_farbenhowm.bfjoust
21:23:15 <ehird> and draws against tons of other
21:23:32 <ehird> !bfjoust oh_mc_farmer_why_dont_you_KRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR [-
21:23:35 <EgoBot> Score for ehird_oh_mc_farmer_why_dont_you_KRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR: 19.2
21:24:31 <AnMaster> !bfjoust too_long_name_breaks_formatting.bfjoust [-]
21:24:34 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_too_long_name_breaks_formatting_bfjoust: 11.2
21:24:46 -!- impomatic has joined.
21:24:46 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster__: 11.2
21:25:10 <ehird> !bfjoust only_your_butt_can_break_the_infinite_mass_of_extreme_formatting_that_is_what_you_have_known_to_be_a_superllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllooooooooooooonnnnng_name_okay_okay_good_that_is_very_good .
21:25:14 <EgoBot> Score for ehird_only_your_butt_can_break_the_infinite_mass_of_extreme_formatting_that_is_what_you_have_known_to_be_a_superllllllllllllllllllllllllllllllooooooooooooonnnnng_name_okay_okay_good_that_is_very_good: 25.5
21:25:16 <AnMaster> 11 | + 0 + + + + + + + + + - + + - + + - 0 - | 67.5 | 10 | ehird_the_unknowable_reversi_of_slowrush.bfjoust
21:25:24 <ehird> Nopping = 25.5 points.
21:25:25 <EgoBot> Score for GregorR-L_loser: 0.0
21:25:28 <Sgeo> !bfjoust this_is_basically_the_same_as_the_anmaster_trivial [+]
21:25:31 <EgoBot> Score for Sgeo_this_is_basically_the_same_as_the_anmaster_trivial: 19.2
21:25:43 <ehird> randomized tape lengths
21:25:49 <Sgeo> Maybe it isn't?
21:26:05 <Sgeo> Why is [+] 19.2 and [-] 11.2?
21:26:11 <AnMaster> 0 | - - 0 - - - - - - + - - - 0 - 0 - - - + | 11.2 | -13 | AnMaster__.bfjoust
21:26:11 <AnMaster> 11 | + 0 + + + + + + + + + - + + - + + - 0 - | 67.5 | 10 | ehird_the_unknowable_reversi_of_slowrush.bfjoust
21:26:29 <ehird> AnMaster: It's a puddle of infinity!
21:26:34 <AnMaster> 10 | - - - + + + + + + + - + - 0 - - - - - - | 41.5 | -3 | ehird_shade_needs_to_get_laid.bfjoust
21:26:40 <AnMaster> that is the second line I meant to paste
21:26:51 <Sgeo> Where can I learn about BF Joust?
21:26:54 <GregorR-L> ehird: So where's your bitchin' sweet interpreter?
21:27:02 <EgoBot> http://google.com/search?q=bf+joust
21:27:04 <ehird> GregorR-L: Being written this very second, you bitch ass.
21:27:20 <GregorR-L> ehird: Bitchin' bitchin' bitch bitchin' bitch.
21:27:34 <EgoBot> Use: !bfjoust <program name> <program>
21:27:41 <EgoBot> Use: !bfjoust <program name> <program>
21:27:53 <AnMaster> I wanted to name my program a space
21:28:00 <EgoBot> Use: !bfjoust <program name> <program>
21:28:38 <GregorR-L> !bfjoust make_me_a_sammich (>)*10+>->+[[-]>+]
21:28:42 <EgoBot> Score for GregorR-L_make_me_a_sammich: 12.0
21:28:44 <EgoBot> Use: !bfjoust <program name> <program>
21:28:44 <Sgeo> !bfjoust sleep [.]
21:28:48 <EgoBot> Score for Sgeo_sleep: 25.5
21:28:53 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_test: 25.5
21:29:04 <AnMaster> <Sgeo> !bfjoust sleep [.] <-- I did that above
21:29:15 <ehird> !bfjoust iturnedintoa >>>>>>>>>>+[>+][[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]]Sandwiches are >++
21:29:18 <EgoBot> Score for ehird_iturnedintoa: 4.8
21:29:43 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_ohai: 0.0
21:30:05 <ehird> !bfjoust negativeplz <<<<<<<<<
21:30:09 <EgoBot> Score for ehird_negativeplz: 0.0
21:30:16 <ehird> my 0.0 is smaller than yours
21:30:20 <AnMaster> ehird, also GregorR-L did lower than 4.8 before
21:30:22 <EgoBot> Score for GregorR-L_oh_nose: 30.3
21:30:42 <ehird> Challenge: Lowest positive score.
21:30:45 <ehird> !bfjoust oh_you_have_a_nose_i_see (-)*127<
21:30:50 <EgoBot> Score for ehird_oh_you_have_a_nose_i_see: 8.5
21:30:59 <ehird> It weakens itself pitifully, then runs off the tape. But still does okay.
21:31:02 <ehird> !bfjoust oh_you_have_a_nose_i_see (-)*127[>+]
21:31:06 <EgoBot> Score for ehird_oh_you_have_a_nose_i_see: 21.0
21:31:08 <ehird> !bfjoust oh_you_have_a_nose_i_see (+)*127[>+]
21:31:12 <EgoBot> Score for ehird_oh_you_have_a_nose_i_see: 16.5
21:31:18 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_fail: 19.0
21:31:35 <EgoBot> Score for GregorR-L_oh_nose: 30.9
21:31:39 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_ohai: 11.2
21:31:51 <Deewiant> Oh, ehird already did something like that
21:32:04 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_ohai: 0.0
21:32:10 <ehird> !bfjoust i_hate_myself_and_i_want_to_die [>(+)*127] i am very helpful
21:32:15 <EgoBot> Score for ehird_i_hate_myself_and_i_want_to_die: 4.1
21:32:15 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_ohai: 3.9
21:32:23 <ehird> I had the world record for <1 second
21:32:24 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_ohai2: 3.8
21:32:29 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_ohai2: 0.0
21:32:31 <ehird> !bfjoust i_hate_myself_and_i_want_to_die [>(-)*127>+]
21:32:34 <AnMaster> <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_ohai2: 3.8
21:32:37 <EgoBot> Score for ehird_i_hate_myself_and_i_want_to_die: 10.2
21:32:37 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_ohai: 0.0
21:32:41 <Sgeo> !bfjoust another_loser -
21:32:43 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_ohai: 0.0
21:32:46 <EgoBot> Score for Sgeo_another_loser: 32.7
21:32:49 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_ohai: 0.0
21:32:50 <ehird> !bfjoust fuck_my_life (>)*37
21:32:52 <Sgeo> How did that happen?
21:32:54 <EgoBot> Score for ehird_fuck_my_life: 0.0
21:32:54 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_ohai: 0.2
21:33:03 <Sgeo> How did - survive at all?
21:33:07 <EgoBot> Score for GregorR-L_oh_nose: 35.0
21:33:08 <ehird> !bfjoust fuck_my_life (>)*9(<)*9[-]
21:33:12 <ehird> Deewiant: Haha 0.2
21:33:12 <EgoBot> Score for ehird_fuck_my_life: 16.4
21:33:26 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_ohai: 0.0
21:33:27 <GregorR-L> <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_ohai: 0.2 // nothing's going to beat this.
21:33:30 <ehird> !bfjoust fuck_my_life >-<->-<-
21:33:35 <Deewiant> ehird: I expect it to be thanks to your fuck_my_life
21:33:36 <EgoBot> Score for ehird_fuck_my_life: 16.8
21:33:37 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_ohai: 6.1
21:33:44 <Sgeo> !bfjoust ohai_sensible (-)*35
21:33:45 <Deewiant> ehird: It would've got 0 if that hadn't been in the same run :-P
21:33:45 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_ohai: 0.0
21:33:50 <EgoBot> Score for Sgeo_ohai_sensible: 32.0
21:33:59 <Deewiant> ehird: Since yours killed itself before mine did
21:34:04 <EgoBot> Use: !bfjoust <program name> <program>
21:34:06 <AnMaster> Deewiant, you were lucky with tape length
21:34:06 <EgoBot> Use: !bfjoust <program name> <program>
21:34:12 <ehird> !bfjoust parenthesi_or_butt ()*65536
21:34:17 <EgoBot> Score for ehird_parenthesi_or_butt: 36.4
21:34:18 <pikhq> !bfjoust loserp (-)*128
21:34:20 <GregorR-L> The actually good programs on top seem unthreatened :P
21:34:21 <EgoBot> Score for pikhq_loserp: 3.5
21:34:26 <ehird> !bfjoust parenthesi_or_butt ()*10000000000
21:34:30 <ehird> THIS WILL GET LIKE 300000000000
21:34:32 <Deewiant> ehird: Nah, 37 is over the max (I think)
21:34:46 <Sgeo> !bfjoust more_loserp (-)*65536
21:34:59 <pikhq> The single most straightforward suicider didn't get a 0?
21:35:08 <Deewiant> AnMaster: No luck involved... my program killed itself before anything could touch it, but ehird's killed itself first
21:35:09 <ehird> !bfjoust fucking_termoil_wants_me_to_term_oil (-)*99999999999
21:35:11 <Sgeo> !bfjoust more_loserp (-)*6553
21:35:14 <nescience> ehird: polarity for slowrush played a part in one warrior
21:35:25 <nescience> - gets 1 loss 2 ties and + gets like 2 losses 2 ties
21:35:32 <Sgeo> Why isn't more_loserp running
21:35:34 <Deewiant> ehird: Did you have to do that again?
21:35:35 <nescience> also seriously, would you quit with the submitting the inverse thing?
21:35:37 <GregorR-L> ... what have you done this time? :P
21:35:41 <AnMaster> Sgeo, because ehird clogged it
21:35:43 <Deewiant> GregorR-L: ehird's *9999999999999 I expect
21:35:58 <ehird> nescience: not until i has my polarity :)
21:36:39 <nescience> good, as soon as you do then it'll be only 1 loss 0 ties :)
21:36:45 <Sgeo> Wait, enter needs to be 0 two times?
21:37:05 <ehird> nescience: Who's the loss?
21:37:41 <nescience> it may have been more than one actually
21:37:44 <GregorR-L> That really shouldn't cause this kind of problem.
21:37:58 <ehird> SHADE NEEDS TO GET PAID
21:38:11 -!- stupid_connectio has joined.
21:38:18 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_ohai: 0.0
21:38:18 <EgoBot> Score for Sgeo_more_loserp: 39.3
21:38:18 <EgoBot> Score for ehird_fucking_termoil_wants_me_to_term_oil: 49.5
21:38:19 <EgoBot> Score for Sgeo_more_loserp: 39.3
21:38:19 <EgoBot> Score for ehird_parenthesi_or_butt: 52.3
21:38:36 <ehird> 21:34 ehird: !bfjoust parenthesi_or_butt ()*10000000000
21:39:06 <GregorR-L> That's because I killed them so it tied a bunch.
21:39:24 <Deewiant> !bfjoust train2 (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>+([[-][-]>+])*30
21:39:28 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_train2: 28.3
21:39:30 <nescience> GregorR-L: how about eliminating polar duplicates from the hill? :P
21:39:51 <GregorR-L> ehird's interpreter will do the trick.
21:39:55 <lament> [[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[[
21:40:03 <Deewiant> !bfjoust train2 (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>+([[-][-]>+])*28
21:40:07 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_train2: 17.2
21:40:09 <Deewiant> !bfjoust train2 (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>+([[-][-]>+])*32
21:40:12 <nescience> then infinite variations of the same warrior can be submitted
21:40:13 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_train2: 27.7
21:40:15 <Deewiant> !bfjoust train2 (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>+([[-][-]>+])*31
21:40:17 <ehird> YES HELLO lament, THIS IS TRULY AMAZING
21:40:19 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_train2: 15.0
21:40:22 <Deewiant> !bfjoust train2 (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>+([[-][-]>+])*29
21:40:24 <ehird> WOW, DO YOU WANT TO TURN INTO A -
21:40:32 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_train2: 16.9
21:40:55 <ehird> A SCALE OF MONTOLOGY, lament.
21:40:58 <ehird> JUST BASIC SCIENTIFICS.
21:41:49 <GregorR-L> !bfjoust hopefully_fixed_bug ()*1000000
21:41:54 <EgoBot> Score for GregorR-L_hopefully_fixed_bug: 29.4
21:42:05 <ehird> !bfjoust hopefully_+mug ()*1000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000
21:42:09 <ehird> ONE THOUSAND GILLION
21:42:09 <EgoBot> Score for ehird_hopefully__mug: 31.1
21:42:32 <ehird> i am an avant-gardist. isn't that right lament? lament? ent? ?
21:43:21 <EgoBot> Score for GregorR-L_toast: 10.9
21:43:41 <EgoBot> Score for GregorR-L_toast: 9.6
21:44:38 <EgoBot> Score for GregorR-L_toast: 20.1
21:47:27 -!- myndzi\ has changed nick to myndzi.
21:48:06 -!- stupid_connectio has changed nick to impomatic[2].
21:48:09 -!- myndzi has changed nick to myndzi\.
21:48:35 -!- myndzi\ has changed nick to myndzi.
21:49:30 <nescience> accidentally submitted under wrong nick
21:49:45 <GregorR-L> !bfjoust pooper_scooper [>([{}-])%5+]
21:49:49 <EgoBot> Score for GregorR-L_pooper_scooper: 39.5
21:50:04 <nescience> too many ties, needs to be a suicide
21:50:06 -!- nescience has changed nick to myndzi\.
21:50:39 <ehird> brrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrb.
21:53:33 -!- GregorR has quit (Connection timed out).
21:53:55 <myndzi\> at least you didn't wind up with 'no route to host' earlier :)
21:53:58 -!- GregorR has joined.
21:54:52 <pikhq> BTW, any idea which program that (-)*128 is *beating*?
21:55:43 -!- impomatic has quit (Connection timed out).
21:55:44 <pikhq> myndzi\: The text being?
21:57:00 <GregorR-L> !bfjoust pooper_scooper [>([{}-])%5+>([{}-])%5-]
21:57:04 <EgoBot> Score for GregorR-L_pooper_scooper: 39.1
21:57:50 <GregorR-L> Wow, that myndzi\_foo really confused it :P
21:59:41 <GregorR-L> !bfjoust pooper_scooper [>[[-]-]+]
21:59:45 <EgoBot> Score for GregorR-L_pooper_scooper: 37.7
22:00:13 <EgoBot> Score for GregorR-L_pooper_scooper: 34.2
22:00:37 -!- impomatic[2] has changed nick to impomatic.
22:01:56 <GregorR-L> Yeah, but it's fixed now, that shouldn't cause issues.
22:01:59 <myndzi\> i didn't realize iw as on my altnick
22:02:03 -!- myndzi\ has changed nick to nescience.
22:02:10 <nescience> and then it responded and i thought crap!
22:02:18 <nescience> tried to fix it, but with all the defenders, the ties kept it on the board
22:02:39 <GregorR-L> Due to its confusion, when it finally erased one it was the good one :P
22:03:28 <nescience> without a better interpreter or bogging down the bot
22:03:31 <Deewiant> And you're losing to shade, too
22:03:47 <EgoBot> Use: !bfjoust <program name> <program>
22:03:48 <nescience> i think i'll stick to the 3 ties 1 loss
22:03:54 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_foo_: 30.6
22:04:15 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_foo_: 0.0
22:04:21 <nescience> it must have got lucky when i first tried the updated slowrush
22:04:28 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_foo_: 0.0
22:04:35 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_foo_: 0.0
22:04:38 <nescience> i'll have to think of another way to beat the reflected slowrush
22:04:44 <Deewiant> AnMaster: (x)*number -> x repeated number times
22:04:54 <AnMaster> Deewiant, yes I'm trying to break it
22:05:07 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_foo_: 0.0
22:05:15 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_foo_: 28.1
22:05:40 <Deewiant> AnMaster: If it breaks you get 0, I guess it might read some of them as comments
22:05:44 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_foo_: 32.0
22:06:36 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_foo_: 52.5
22:06:54 -!- psygnisf_ has joined.
22:07:01 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_foo_: 29.9
22:07:08 <Deewiant> GregorR-L: That had to be a bug
22:07:08 -!- psygnisfive has quit (Connection reset by peer).
22:07:11 <Deewiant> 0 | 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 | 52.6 | 0 | AnMaster_foo_.bfjoust
22:07:13 <GregorR-L> I want to know what that actually did though :P
22:07:22 <nescience> 18 | + 0 + + + + + + + + 0 - + + + + + + + | 90.0 | 15 | myndzi_slowrush.bfjoust
22:07:55 <AnMaster> GregorR, what? -(*{}{\+[])%1 segfaulted?
22:08:03 <AnMaster> GregorR, you need more fuzz testing then!
22:08:05 <Deewiant> AnMaster: It tied against everything
22:08:06 <nescience> i'll have to consider a different way to beat the stallers without messing up my attack
22:08:26 <AnMaster> GregorR, I expect you to fix the bug in the parser
22:08:49 <AnMaster> !bfjoust interpreter_fail -(*{}{\+[])%1
22:08:51 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_interpreter_fail: 52.5
22:09:07 <AnMaster> and will stay there for a while
22:09:25 <GregorR-L> Nope, because I just fixed the bug.
22:09:36 <AnMaster> GregorR, sure. But you won't retcon the history!
22:09:40 <Deewiant> Time for another POOPER SCOOPER
22:09:56 <Deewiant> AnMaster: GregorR-L_pooper_scooper.bfjoust
22:10:03 <GregorR-L> !bfjoust pooper_scooper [>([{}-])%5+]
22:10:07 <EgoBot> Score for GregorR-L_pooper_scooper: 38.9
22:10:24 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_foo_: 31.4
22:10:32 <GregorR-L> interpreter_fail is still there! D-8
22:10:44 <Deewiant> GregorR-L: It tied against everything except pooper scooper :-D
22:11:09 <Deewiant> nescience: I guess he can't tell which one errored
22:11:30 <GregorR-L> !bfjoust pooper_scooper [>([{}-])%5+]
22:11:36 <EgoBot> Score for GregorR-L_pooper_scooper: 35.7
22:11:59 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_foo_: 0.2
22:12:12 <GregorR-L> It tied against interpreter_fail P
22:12:23 <AnMaster> GregorR, why did you rerun the interpreter fail one
22:12:36 <GregorR-L> There were only 20 on the hill at the time.
22:12:39 <Deewiant> It's not a rerun, it's on the hill
22:12:53 <nescience> just need to validate programs beforehand or something
22:13:16 <AnMaster> GregorR-L, you did. The ties should be the same. Or do you rerun them all every time. All against all other ones?
22:14:13 <Deewiant> History wasn't altered; these programs are all pure, right?
22:14:25 <GregorR-L> Should be, except when I fix bugs :P
22:14:26 <Deewiant> Same output for the same input
22:14:48 <EgoBot> Score for GregorR-L_pooper_scooper: 22.9
22:14:53 <Deewiant> AnMaster: It depends only on the sources of the two combatants
22:14:57 <AnMaster> thus removing the cache will always alter programs
22:15:18 <GregorR-L> The tape length is generated from the source of the two programs.
22:15:35 <Deewiant> No, the programs are pure so it's impossible for history to have changed
22:15:37 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_foo_: 0.2
22:15:39 <GregorR-L> !bfjoust pooper_scooper [>([{}-])%10+]
22:15:42 <Deewiant> Since it's impossible it didn't happen :-P
22:15:43 <EgoBot> Score for GregorR-L_pooper_scooper: 30.7
22:16:04 <Deewiant> Meh, why does train2 have such a low score
22:16:04 <AnMaster> GregorR, don't you dare push it off!
22:16:04 <GregorR-L> (Until somebody actually ADDS a better one)
22:16:11 <Deewiant> !bfjoust train3 (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>([>][[-][-]>+])*27
22:16:15 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_train3: 23.6
22:16:46 <EgoBot> Score for GregorR-L_amazingly_useless: 18.6
22:16:53 <AnMaster> GregorR, don't you dare push it off by hand!
22:17:03 <GregorR-L> AnMaster: It was pushed off by report.c :P
22:17:22 <Deewiant> Meh, nescience/myndzi owns the whole hill
22:17:38 <EgoBot> Use: !bfjoust <program name> <program>
22:17:45 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster___: 0.0
22:17:57 <AnMaster> !bfjoust %999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
22:17:58 <EgoBot> Use: !bfjoust <program name> <program>
22:18:01 <AnMaster> !bfjoust t %999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
22:18:05 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_t: 28.5
22:18:13 <GregorR-L> !bfjoust AnMaster_is_a_loser (.)*10[>(+)*128]
22:18:14 -!- Patashu has joined.
22:18:17 <EgoBot> Score for GregorR-L_AnMaster_is_a_loser: 17.0
22:18:17 <nescience> GregorR-L: any idea if it really was my program that broke things earlier?
22:18:21 <nescience> or was it the messin around after that
22:18:22 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_q: 32.6
22:18:33 <nescience> if it's not gonna break things i'd still like to try and fix those ties
22:18:39 <nescience> GregorR-L: the one with the nested *3000's
22:18:55 <GregorR-L> nescience: Oh, it wasn't yours, it was another. Should be fine.
22:18:57 <nescience> the bot was out of commission so long i figured maybe it wasn't lag, maybe something else was wrong
22:19:00 <Deewiant> nescience: Given that the admin is here now it's fairly safe to try ;-)
22:19:07 <AnMaster> !bfjoust t2 >+>+>(+{(-)*999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999}+)%999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
22:19:11 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_t2: 52.5
22:19:14 <nescience> i don't think i need 3000 after all anyway
22:19:21 <Deewiant> GregorR-L: Your interp is a pile of bugs
22:19:25 <nescience> that was just because i thought i wasn't looping enough
22:19:39 <AnMaster> GregorR-L, don't clear the cache this time!
22:19:40 <nescience> when it was a different problem entirely
22:20:04 <Patashu> tieing everything gives you a REALLY good score
22:20:14 <GregorR-L> Patashu: A tie is better than a loss.
22:20:27 <Patashu> !bfjoust lazy >(+)*5>(-)*5>(+)*5>(-)*5>(-)*5>(+)*5>(+)*5>(-)*5(>(-.)*128)*21[-]((-)*2048(+)*2048.)*2
22:20:31 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_lazy: 35.1
22:20:31 <Patashu> !bfjoust matador >+[]<(++-)*1000+(--+)*1000(>)*9(>[+][-])*21
22:20:32 <AnMaster> !bfjoust interpreter_fail2 >+>+>(+{(-)*999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999}+)%999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
22:20:36 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_interpreter_fail2: 52.4
22:20:37 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_matador: 35.3
22:20:38 <Patashu> !bfjoust waiter ((++-)*10000-(--+)*10000)*2(+)*50000(-)*50000(+-)*10000(-+)*10000(>)*8(>(-.)*128)*20
22:20:42 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_waiter: 48.6
22:20:45 <Patashu> !bfjoust juggernaut +(>(-)*128.--++)*29
22:20:49 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_juggernaut: 31.0
22:20:51 <Patashu> !bfjoust electrictrain (>(+)*10)*4(>(-)*10)*5([-][-][+][+]>)*20
22:20:54 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_electrictrain: 28.8
22:21:02 <AnMaster> !bfjoust push_them_off1 >+>+>(+{(-)*999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999}+)%999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
22:21:05 <AnMaster> !bfjoust push_them_off2 >+>+>(+{(-)*999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999}+)%999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
22:21:05 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_push_them_off1: 52.5
22:21:07 <AnMaster> !bfjoust push_them_off3 >+>+>(+{(-)*999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999}+)%999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
22:21:08 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_push_them_off2: 52.5
22:21:12 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_push_them_off3: 52.5
22:21:14 <Deewiant> !bfjoust train2 (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>+([[-][-]>+])*27
22:21:14 <AnMaster> !bfjoust yes_jerk >+>+>(+{(-)*999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999}+)%999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
22:21:20 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_yes_jerk: 52.4
22:21:20 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_train2: 37.1
22:21:34 <Deewiant> Hey, you ass, you killed sloth
22:21:40 <AnMaster> I guess he will just retcon history
22:21:41 <Deewiant> I'll have to dig into text files to find its source again
22:21:42 <Patashu> saying *number where number is greater than 386000
22:21:51 <AnMaster> Deewiant, it scored worse than all draws
22:22:02 <Deewiant> AnMaster: All draws is fairly good
22:22:08 <Deewiant> Patashu: 100k is the turn limit
22:22:08 <Patashu> that's the max number of cycles
22:22:12 <nescience> not when they aren't draws but broken programs
22:22:31 <Deewiant> Beats me, but that's what it is :-P
22:22:34 <AnMaster> 7 37.07 -5 Deewiant_train2.bfjoust
22:22:48 <AnMaster> Deewiant, if I pushed off sloth it must have been very bad
22:22:55 <Deewiant> !bfjoust sloth (+)*12((++-)*1024-(--+)*1024)*100(>)*8+([>[-]+])*100
22:22:58 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_sloth: 40.5
22:23:05 <AnMaster> and he should test them properly
22:23:09 <Deewiant> AnMaster: I repeat; all draws is good
22:23:22 <AnMaster> 7 37.07 -5 Deewiant_train2.bfjoust
22:23:25 <GregorR-L> !bfjoust pooper_scooper [>([{}-])%10+]
22:23:33 <EgoBot> Score for GregorR-L_pooper_scooper: 37.4
22:23:38 <Deewiant> AnMaster: It used to be over 50
22:23:42 -!- impomatic has left (?).
22:24:20 <Deewiant> AnMaster: And I'd like to see you do better without abusing bugs before complaining :-P
22:24:36 <AnMaster> GregorR, please can has formal verification next time, mkay?
22:24:50 <Deewiant> Patashu: All those all-drawers are causing the interp to crash
22:24:56 -!- olsner has quit ("Leaving").
22:24:57 <Deewiant> Patashu: Which is why they draw :-P
22:25:00 <AnMaster> that is, next time I manage to crash it. you have to do a full formal verification.
22:25:29 <Patashu> !bfjoust rushpolarity >((+)*10>(-)*10>(-)*10>(+)*10)*2>((+)*10[+[-]]+.--.++>(-)*10[-[+]]+.--.++>)*10(+)*8[+[-]]+.--.++
22:25:33 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_rushpolarity: 42.2
22:25:38 <Patashu> !bfjoust lazy >(+)*5>(-)*5>(+)*5>(-)*5>(-)*5>(+)*5>(+)*5>(-)*5(>(-.)*128)*21[-]((-)*2048(+)*2048.)*2
22:25:42 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_lazy: 36.0
22:25:43 <AnMaster> !bfjoust hm_this_should_be_good_since_it_will_draw_against_the_other_ones1 >+>+>(+{(-)*999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999}+)%999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
22:25:45 <Patashu> !bfjoust matador >+[]<(++-)*1000+(--+)*1000(>)*9(>[+][-])*21
22:25:46 <AnMaster> !bfjoust hm_this_should_be_good_since_it_will_draw_against_the_other_ones2 >+>+>(+{(-)*999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999}+)%999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
22:25:49 <AnMaster> !bfjoust hm_this_should_be_good_since_it_will_draw_against_the_other_ones3 >+>+>(+{(-)*999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999}+)%999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999999
22:25:49 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_hm_this_should_be_good_since_it_will_draw_against_the_other_ones1: 25.7
22:25:50 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_matador: 35.8
22:25:51 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_hm_this_should_be_good_since_it_will_draw_against_the_other_ones2: 25.7
22:25:53 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_hm_this_should_be_good_since_it_will_draw_against_the_other_ones3: 25.3
22:25:55 <Patashu> !bfjoust waiter ((++-)*10000-(--+)*10000)*2(+)*50000(-)*50000(+-)*10000(-+)*10000(>)*8(>(-.)*128)*20
22:25:59 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_waiter: 49.4
22:26:01 <Patashu> !bfjoust juggernaut +(>(-)*128.--++)*29
22:26:05 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_juggernaut: 26.2
22:27:00 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_test: 41.8
22:27:15 <Patashu> !bfjoust waiter ((++-)*10000-(--+)*10000)*2(+)*5000(-)*5000(+-)*5000(-+)*5000(>)*8(>(-.)*128)*20
22:27:19 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_waiter: 47.8
22:27:23 <AnMaster> Deewiant, it clearly prevents it being 0 twice in a row a lot
22:27:30 <Patashu> !bfjoust waiter ((++-)*10000-(--+)*10000)*2(+)*50000(-)*50000(+-)*10000(-+)*10000(>)*8(>(-.)*128)*20
22:27:31 <Deewiant> Since most programs try to kill with a [-]
22:27:34 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_waiter: 48.1
22:27:54 <Deewiant> Patashu: Given 100k, there's some pointlessness there :-P
22:28:01 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_test2: 45.9
22:28:08 <Patashu> I'm trying to figure out why making it use every cycle hurts it :/
22:28:17 <Deewiant> Because of the randomization, I guess
22:28:19 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_test: 34.6
22:28:19 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_test2: 34.6
22:28:38 <AnMaster> !bfjoust mad_changer (-)*100001
22:28:41 <Patashu> !bfjoust waiter ((++-)*10000-(--+)*10000)*2(+)*50000(-)*50000(>)*8(>(-.)*128)*20
22:28:43 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_mad_changer: 36.1
22:28:45 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_waiter: 43.2
22:28:49 <Patashu> !bfjoust waiter ((++-)*10000-(--+)*10000)*2(+)*50000(-)*50000(+-)*10000(-+)*10000(>)*8(>(-.)*128)*20
22:28:53 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_waiter: 45.3
22:28:55 <AnMaster> !bfjoust mad_changer (-)*100002
22:28:56 <Deewiant> !bfjoust sloth (+)*12((++-)*1024-(--+)*1024)*10(>)*8+([>[-]+])*100
22:29:00 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_mad_changer: 44.9
22:29:00 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_sloth: 24.1
22:29:12 <Deewiant> !bfjoust sloth (+)*12((++-)*128-(--+)*128)*100(>)*8+([>[-]+])*100
22:29:15 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_sloth: 23.5
22:29:23 <Deewiant> !bfjoust sloth (+)*12((++-)*1024-(--+)*1024)*100
22:29:27 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_sloth: 30.5
22:29:31 <AnMaster> !bfjoust mad_changer (-)*100002
22:29:35 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_mad_changer: 43.2
22:29:38 <AnMaster> !bfjoust mad_changer (-)*100001
22:29:41 <Deewiant> !bfjoust sloth (+)*12((++-)*1024-(--+)*1024)*128(>)*8+([>[-]+])*100
22:29:43 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_mad_changer: 35.6
22:29:45 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_sloth: 40.9
22:29:50 <AnMaster> !bfjoust mad_changer (-)*100003
22:29:54 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_mad_changer: 44.7
22:29:55 <Deewiant> !bfjoust sloth (+)*12((++-)*1024-(--+)*1024)*100(>)*8+([>[-]+])*100
22:29:59 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_sloth: 41.0
22:30:50 <AnMaster> anyway I think it is valid to go for the insane approach!
22:31:12 <AnMaster> !bfjoust test >+>+<<<(-)*100003
22:31:16 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_test: 0.0
22:31:23 <AnMaster> !bfjoust test >+>+<<(-)*100003
22:31:28 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_test: 47.2
22:31:55 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_test: 43.2
22:32:00 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_test: 0.0
22:32:34 <AnMaster> !bfjoust mad_changer2 >+>+<<(-)*100003
22:32:38 <Deewiant> Remove dead instructions -> oops, they affected the randomizer so now you lost against this dude
22:32:39 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_mad_changer2: 47.0
22:33:05 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_test: 31.2
22:33:18 <AnMaster> I use test as my "working" copy. and then name the good ones properly
22:34:14 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_test: 34.8
22:34:20 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_farmhand: 36.0
22:34:36 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_test: 26.6
22:34:46 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_farmhand: 36.1
22:34:55 <AnMaster> Deewiant, that does make a difference though
22:35:26 <Deewiant> !bfjoust farmhand (+-)*25000(-+)*25000
22:35:30 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_farmhand: 36.1
22:35:35 <AnMaster> I wonder how the mad changer can ever lose against any of them
22:36:12 <AnMaster> you are just experimenting with randomness right?
22:36:16 <Patashu> the mad changer can lose against an opponent that does not zero using a loop
22:36:21 <ehird> 22:06 nescience: jesus ehird ←wut
22:36:36 <Patashu> if an opponent gets it onto 0 then uses + it wins
22:36:42 <Patashu> so you just need a creative non-loop based attack
22:36:45 -!- inurinternet has joined.
22:36:48 <ehird> 22:08 AnMaster: GregorR, I expect you to fix the bug in the parser ←AnMaster expecting things since 198x
22:36:52 -!- Taejo has quit ("Leaving").
22:37:05 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_killa: 26.0
22:37:16 <Deewiant> AnMaster: ^ beats mad changers
22:37:17 <AnMaster> ehird, your mom didn't expect you I guess...
22:37:40 <ehird> AnMaster: ...what?
22:37:44 <ehird> is that meant to be an insult
22:37:45 <ehird> because it's really bad
22:37:53 <Deewiant> !bfjoust maglev (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>+([[-][+]>+])*27
22:37:55 <AnMaster> !mad_changer2 >+>--<<(+)*100003
22:37:57 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_maglev: 37.5
22:38:27 <Deewiant> !bfjoust maglev (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>+([[+][+]>+])*27
22:38:30 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_maglev: 27.4
22:38:34 <AnMaster> !bfjoust mad_changer3 >+>--<<(+)*100003
22:38:39 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_mad_changer3: 38.9
22:38:43 <Deewiant> !bfjoust maglev (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>+([[-][+]>-])*27
22:38:47 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_maglev: 32.8
22:38:58 <AnMaster> !bfjoust mad_changer3 >+>-->+<<<(+)*100003
22:39:03 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_mad_changer3: 32.7
22:39:03 <Deewiant> !bfjoust maglev (>(-)*10)*3(>(+)*10)*3(>)*4+([[-][+]>+])*27
22:39:07 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_maglev: 31.5
22:39:10 <AnMaster> !bfjoust mad_changer3 >+>-->>+<<<<(+)*100003
22:39:15 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_mad_changer3: 31.5
22:39:15 <Deewiant> !bfjoust maglev (>(-)*10)*2(>(+)*10)*2(>)*6+([[-][+]>+])*27
22:39:19 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_maglev: 31.3
22:39:23 <Deewiant> !bfjoust maglev (>(-)*10)*5(>(+)*10)*5(>)*0+([[-][+]>+])*27
22:39:27 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_maglev: 23.8
22:39:37 <AnMaster> !bfjoust mad_changer3 >+>-->>+<<<<(+)*100000
22:39:42 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_mad_changer3: 34.1
22:39:43 <Deewiant> !bfjoust maglev (>(-)*10)*1(>(+)*10)*1(>)*8+([[-][+]>+])*27
22:39:47 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_maglev: 26.5
22:39:51 <Deewiant> !bfjoust maglev (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4(>)*2+([[-][+]>+])*27
22:39:55 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_maglev: 29.4
22:40:12 <Deewiant> !bfjoust maglev (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>+([[-][+]>+])*27
22:40:17 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_maglev: 37.0
22:40:29 <Deewiant> (>)*2 to >> improved that quite a bit, sigh
22:40:31 <AnMaster> !bfjoust mad_changer4 >+>-->>++<<<<(+)*100003
22:40:35 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_mad_changer4: 37.3
22:40:42 <Deewiant> AnMaster: Sets up a few decoys then attacks
22:40:57 <ehird> Magggnetic levitttation
22:40:58 <Deewiant> !bfjoust maglev (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>+([[-][+]>+])*30
22:41:00 <ehird> Deewiant: my interp has noooooooo randomness
22:41:01 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_maglev: 46.0
22:41:10 <ehird> 22:33 AnMaster: I use test as my "working" copy. and then name the good ones properly ← stop messing up the hill
22:41:20 <Deewiant> ehird: That doesn't mess anything up
22:41:26 <ehird> Deewiant: does in my mind :))))))
22:41:27 <AnMaster> ehird, I don't yet know what it will be then
22:41:33 <ehird> AnMaster: And you wrote cfunge in a day, didn't you?
22:41:35 <Deewiant> ehird: But doesn't actually :)))))))
22:41:45 <ehird> Hey ehird! Finished that code? No? Hehehehehe, you're a slacker who never does anything.
22:41:48 <AnMaster> ehird, but what has that got to do with it
22:41:48 <ehird> Hey ehird! Finished that code? No? Hehehehehe, you're a slacker who never does anything.
22:41:58 <AnMaster> what has that got to do with the hill
22:42:05 <ehird> AnMaster: I was not talking about the hill.
22:42:19 <AnMaster> ehird, you are talking about how your will solve it all the time
22:42:27 <Patashu> what's the current interp glitch?
22:42:28 <ehird> AnMaster: It's called being silly.
22:42:37 <ehird> Patashu: randomosity & no polarity
22:42:54 <GregorR-L> Neither of those are glitches, they're just definitional :P
22:43:08 <ehird> Yes, but they're nice to not have.
22:43:22 -!- ais523 has joined.
22:44:10 <Deewiant> ehird: What'll you do about randomosity
22:44:25 <ehird> Deewiant: For two challengers, run every combination of (tape_length,polarity).
22:44:36 <ehird> This requires a fast implementation. :)
22:44:42 <Patashu> so you ARE doing the change polarity thing I mentioned :)
22:44:44 <AnMaster> !bfjoust test >+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>-->+>>+>+>+>+>+>-+>+++>>++>+>+<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<(+)*1000000
22:44:48 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_test: 14.5
22:44:48 <Deewiant> ehird: I'd take the stddev, too
22:44:56 <ehird> Deewiant: Yeah, good idea
22:45:25 <Deewiant> AnMaster: I think you might run over the tape there already, on occasion
22:45:51 <AnMaster> !bfjoust test >+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>++++>-->+>>+>+>+>+>+<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<(+)*1000000
22:45:55 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_test: 22.1
22:46:04 <AnMaster> !bfjoust test >+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>++++>-->+>>+>+>+<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<(+)*1000000
22:46:08 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_test: 33.0
22:46:11 <ehird> winner_t run_match(ins_t *a, ins_t *b, polarity_t polarity, int tape_length);
22:46:13 <ehird> Let's gooooooooooo
22:46:17 <AnMaster> !bfjoust test >+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>++++>-->+>>+>+<<<<<<<<<<<<<<(+)*1000000
22:46:19 <ehird> That should go in a match_t structure.
22:46:22 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_test: 42.1
22:46:27 * ehird underlines "When in doubt, add another data structure." again
22:46:53 <AnMaster> !bfjoust mad_changer3 >+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>+>++++>-->+>>+>+<<<<<<<<<<<<<<(+)*1000000
22:46:57 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_mad_changer3: 41.6
22:47:20 -!- tombom has quit ("Peace and Protection 4.22.2").
22:47:21 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_test: 48.9
22:47:35 <AnMaster> !bfjoust mad_changer_4 (+)*1000000
22:47:40 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_mad_changer_4: 48.1
22:47:55 <AnMaster> 10 38.50 -5 ehird_defend8mwahahaha.bfjoust
22:47:58 <Patashu> !bfjoust rushpolarity >((+)*10>(-)*10>(-)*10>(+)*10)*2>((+)*10[+[-]]+.--.++>(-)*10[-[+]]+.--.++>)*10(+)*8[+[-]]+.--.++
22:48:01 <EgoBot> Score for Patashu_rushpolarity: 42.9
22:48:17 <Deewiant> AnMaster: Remove test first when you copy it to a named one, or you drop an extra program off the hill
22:48:32 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_test: 0.0
22:48:45 <Patashu> that's how you remove it :)
22:48:46 <ais523> has the hill been enlarged?
22:48:47 <AnMaster> ehird, I don't know what I'm developing
22:48:56 <ehird> AnMaster: Just name it something random!
22:48:58 <Deewiant> ais523: Size 20 as of 16 hours ago
22:49:05 <ehird> ais523: Yeah, and Gregor made a new implementation.
22:49:09 <ehird> But I'm making a new new implementation :P
22:49:17 <ehird> (Gregor's is just faster, nothing else)
22:49:27 <Deewiant> http://narf.at/pix/ab1512bd2a6df0270a9a4320103c4cac21e4f018.jpeg
22:49:42 <ehird> AnMaster: Yes he is what?
22:50:00 <ehird> Do you give programs genders?
22:50:32 <ehird> GregorR-L: how long did it take you to code it, perchance?
22:50:41 <ehird> No? Guess you're too slow for SPEEDY AnMaster
22:50:48 -!- Patashu has quit ("Patashu/SteampunkX - MSN = Patashu@hotmail.com , AIM = Patashu0 , YIM = Patashu2 , Googletalk = Patashu0@gmail.com .").
22:50:49 <AnMaster> ehird, well, he started after you did. And you aren't yet done
22:51:15 <ehird> Because I've done other things, goddamn you impatient bastard. And his interp is just a trivial reimplementation.
22:51:23 <AnMaster> <ehird> Because I've done other things, goddamn you impatient bastard. And his interp is just a trivial reimplementation.
22:51:37 <ehird> I'm really tired of HEY EHIRD YOU'RE TALKING MORE THAN A FEW MINUTES TO IMPLEMENT IT YOU'RE SO SLOOOOOW GREGOR IS SO FASTER YOU SUCK
22:51:54 <AnMaster> ehird, you are misrepresenting my opinions here
22:52:08 <ehird> Sorry, you don't say "YOU SUCK". Scratch that part.
22:52:22 <Deewiant> !bfjoust maglev (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>+([[-.][+.]>+])*30
22:52:24 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_maglev: 38.0
22:52:26 <Deewiant> !bfjoust maglev (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>+([[-.][+.]>])*30
22:52:28 <ehird> Then me and clog must be hallucinating.
22:52:29 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_maglev: 19.5
22:52:31 <Deewiant> !bfjoust maglev (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>+([[-.][+.]>])*40
22:52:34 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_maglev: 31.0
22:52:45 <AnMaster> ehird, you began it yesterday right?
22:52:46 <Deewiant> !bfjoust maglev (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>+([[-.][+.]>]+)*40
22:52:48 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_maglev: 38.0
22:53:03 <ehird> AnMaster: I DON'T GIVE A SHIT! WHY ARE YOU TELLING ME THIS AGAIN?!
22:53:04 <Deewiant> !bfjoust maglev (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>+([[-.][+]>]+)*40
22:53:06 <AnMaster> ehird, you began before GregorR yesterday
22:53:06 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_maglev: 40.0
22:53:07 <GregorR-L> Oh for cripes sake, you two go sit in opposite corners.
22:53:15 <Deewiant> !bfjoust maglev (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>+([[-][+.]>]+)*40
22:53:18 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_maglev: 36.6
22:53:18 <AnMaster> and you are claiming this is "a few minutes"
22:53:20 <ehird> GregorR-L: I just don't know why the fuck he's bugging me about not implementing it as super fast as I can
22:53:21 <Deewiant> !bfjoust maglev (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>+([[-]>]+)*40
22:53:24 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_maglev: 16.6
22:53:30 <ehird> AnMaster: BECAUSE YOU KEEP BUGGING ME ABOUT IT EVERY HOUR
22:53:39 <AnMaster> ehird, I'm not bugging you about doing it
22:53:40 <Deewiant> !bfjoust maglev (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>->+([[-]>]+)*40
22:53:43 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_maglev: 27.4
22:53:49 <AnMaster> but I'm irritated at you talking a lot about it and doing nothing
22:53:52 <Deewiant> !bfjoust maglev (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>->+([[-][+]>])*30
22:53:55 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_maglev: 19.4
22:53:58 <Deewiant> !bfjoust maglev (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>+([[-][+]>])*30
22:54:01 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_maglev: 35.6
22:54:07 <ais523> AnMaster: maybe ehird is doing something, just there's no visible proof
22:54:11 <Deewiant> !bfjoust maglev (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>->+([[-][+]>+])*30
22:54:11 <ais523> like the NetHack devteam
22:54:13 <AnMaster> !bfjoust maglev_deewiant (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>+([[-][+]>])*30
22:54:13 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_maglev: 26.9
22:54:16 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_maglev_deewiant: 34.5
22:54:21 <ehird> ais523: He goddamn knows I'm developing it
22:54:23 <Deewiant> !bfjoust maglev (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>+([[-][+]>+])*30
22:54:25 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_maglev: 42.5
22:54:29 <ehird> He just keeps saying "HEY EHIRD ARE YOU DONE YEEEEEET????????????????????????????"
22:54:35 <AnMaster> Deewiant, try submitting the same twice?
22:54:47 <ehird> 22:53 AnMaster: but I'm irritated at you talking a lot about it and doing nothing
22:54:47 <Deewiant> AnMaster: It's because you were against my maglev
22:54:59 <Deewiant> Whereas when I do it myself, it obviously isn't there
22:55:01 <ehird> No. Not a lot. I'm just joking every now and then when people talk about the randomosity etc.
22:55:05 <Deewiant> !bfjoust maglev (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>->+([[-][+]>+])*30
22:55:08 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_maglev: 29.5
22:55:13 <ehird> God damn, I can't joke without being hounded for hours by AnMaster now. Lovely.
22:55:14 <Deewiant> !bfjoust maglev (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>([[-][+]>+])*30
22:55:17 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_maglev: 30.6
22:55:22 <Deewiant> !bfjoust maglev (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>([[-][+]>]+)*30
22:55:24 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_maglev: 33.5
22:55:29 <Deewiant> !bfjoust maglev (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>+([[-][+]>]+)*30
22:55:32 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_maglev: 27.6
22:55:32 -!- pikhq has changed nick to p.
22:55:36 <Deewiant> !bfjoust maglev (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>->([[-][+]>]+)*30
22:55:39 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_maglev: 44.5
22:55:41 -!- p has changed nick to pikhq.
22:55:48 <Deewiant> !bfjoust maglev (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>->([[-][+]>]+)*30
22:55:51 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_maglev: 36.6
22:55:54 <Deewiant> !bfjoust maglev (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>->>([[-][+]>]+)*30
22:55:56 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_maglev: 37.3
22:56:05 <pikhq> Aaaw. I was trying to make pıkhq an alias.
22:56:07 <Deewiant> !bfjoust maglev (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>->([[-][+]>]+)*30
22:56:09 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_maglev: 44.5
22:56:15 <pikhq> Freenode hates Unicode nicks.
22:56:19 <AnMaster> GregorR, it would be interesting to run the program against itself and show if it won or it was a draw
22:56:41 <ehird> AnMaster: A program always draws against itself.
22:56:50 <nescience> GregorR-L: does your interpreter handle nested ({})?
22:57:04 <AnMaster> ehird, I'm pretty sure you could make one that didn't
22:57:18 * pikhq bets you couldn't even register ørjan
22:57:21 <ehird> Deewiant: That draws on everything
22:57:23 <Deewiant> Doesn't the first program lose before the other gets a turn
22:57:36 <AnMaster> hm yes that is what I'm thinking too
22:57:44 <ehird> also not that I know of
22:59:08 <AnMaster> !bfjoust Göta_kanal >+<(-)*10000000000000
22:59:11 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_G__ta_kanal: 44.0
22:59:49 <Deewiant> Try dropping off the 8 extra zeroes
23:00:02 <AnMaster> Deewiant, would change randomness.
23:00:21 <AnMaster> !bfjoust Göta_älv >+<(-)*100000
23:00:24 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_G__ta___lv: 40.0
23:00:55 <AnMaster> GregorR, Linux handles unicode filanames just fine
23:01:03 <ehird> Deewiant: non-alphanumeric -> _
23:01:17 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_is-that-so: 0.2
23:01:17 <myndzi> i'm pretty sure i can't even read this
23:01:28 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_is_that_so: 0.2
23:01:37 <Deewiant> I guess you can count - as numeric
23:01:45 <ehird> AnMaster: Not giving a shit about non-ASCII inputs win.
23:01:46 <nescience> maybe manual expansion for part of that
23:01:55 <ais523> AnMaster: it probably depends on the filesystem
23:01:58 <GregorR-L> <ehird> AnMaster: Not giving a shit about non-ASCII inputs win. // yes
23:02:18 <AnMaster> <ais523> AnMaster: it probably depends on the filesystem <-- I assume he isn't using FAT...
23:02:29 <GregorR-L> I whitelist rather than blacklist.
23:02:34 <AnMaster> GregorR, US centric bastard! :P
23:02:41 <nescience> or rather i overflowed your buffer
23:03:27 <ehird> GregorR-L is a USian.
23:03:44 <ehird> But anyone who says that English is only in England and the USA is an idiot.
23:03:52 <ehird> Or lives in a country with a terrible curriculum.
23:03:55 <AnMaster> !bfjoust The Colour of Mälaren >+>+<<(-)*10000000000000
23:03:58 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_The: 36.5
23:04:01 <AnMaster> !bfjoust The_Colour_of_Mälaren >+>+<<(-)*10000000000000
23:04:04 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_The_Colour_of_M__laren: 38.9
23:04:09 <AnMaster> !bfjoust The_Colour_of_Mälaren >+>+<(-)*10000000000000
23:04:12 <ehird> AnMaster: Also: café is an english word.
23:04:13 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_The_Colour_of_M__laren: 44.9
23:04:15 <ehird> You can't represent it in ASCII.
23:04:20 <ehird> So not exactly English-centric.
23:04:35 <AnMaster> I think that makes some of them not reach the flag cell
23:04:53 <nescience> what i had in mind won't work anyway
23:05:24 <nescience> to take care of both polarities of the waiting scripts
23:05:39 <nescience> i'll have to do it a different way after all
23:06:06 <AnMaster> !bfjoust Östersjöns_vågor >+>+<(-++-)*10000000000000
23:06:09 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster___stersj__ns_v__gor: 39.4
23:06:18 <AnMaster> !bfjoust Östersjöns_vågor >+>+<(-+-++)*10000000000000
23:06:19 <nescience> also, is that more tying bullshit at the top there?
23:06:22 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster___stersj__ns_v__gor: 49.1
23:06:56 <AnMaster> I don't aim for anything more than draw
23:07:32 <ehird> They're not called confusers.
23:07:34 <AnMaster> ehird, yes. They trap the opposite program and aim for a draw
23:07:36 <ehird> They're not called confusers.
23:07:38 <nescience> more like submitting the same thing under 5 names
23:07:52 <AnMaster> nescience, there are important differences
23:08:19 <nescience> and ties need to be nuked out of this scoring system
23:08:24 <AnMaster> nescience, ... so why do they manage differently bad
23:08:53 <nescience> or rather, put it back to wins ties losses for score
23:09:01 <nescience> none of this getting points for tying things that get points
23:09:20 <ehird> nescience: my NEW CONTEST INFRASTRUCTURE WILL HANDLE THAT! Also before AnMaster lynches me I'm fucking kidding, okay?
23:09:30 <ehird> nescience: if you want a PONY that can be ARRANGED also
23:09:32 <AnMaster> nescience, you just hate them because that sucky program of yours got kicked out
23:09:39 <ehird> AnMaster: stop being a retard.
23:09:51 <ehird> EHIRD: PROBLEM SOLVER
23:10:03 <nescience> both of my programs are near the top
23:10:03 <AnMaster> nescience, ah I mixed you up with someone else
23:10:19 <nescience> just don't submit it under 10 forms so that they only stay on the hill because of the scoring exploit
23:10:38 <ehird> the bloody hill is alight with draws of all of AnMaster's 57 programs
23:10:41 <AnMaster> nescience, you can see that some of the mad changers work on the flag cell, while some doesn't
23:10:52 <ehird> There's a reason you can resubmit under the same name.
23:11:09 <AnMaster> ehird, I want to keep the best one.
23:11:17 <ehird> .................................
23:11:22 <AnMaster> anyway. Just fucking beat them and the issue is solved
23:11:25 <ehird> So... resubmit... the best one... at the end.
23:11:42 <AnMaster> ehird, as if I would remember it by then
23:11:48 <nescience> well i guess by that logic, i should just submit 10 variants of slowrush and knock everything off the hill
23:11:52 <AnMaster> | 0 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 11 12 13 14 15 16 17 18 19 20 | score | pts | program
23:11:52 <AnMaster> 0 | 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 0 - 0 0 0 0 - | 44.6 | -3 | AnMaster_The_Colour_of_M__laren.bfjoust
23:11:58 <nescience> the thing is your programs ARE getting "just fucking beaten"
23:12:03 <ehird> AnMaster: Oh, I forgot, YOU ONLY HAVE 3 FUCKING LINES OF BACKLOG?
23:12:11 <ehird> So you can't just go into the previous lines and pick out the best one?
23:12:16 <ehird> Might be time to get a better IRC client.
23:12:19 <AnMaster> nescience, ties being +/- 0 seems sane
23:12:24 <Deewiant> !befunge98 "abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzåäö">:#;288**1-`9\0\#x_$$#;,_@>\,3k09a+-0x
23:12:26 <AnMaster> nescience, which one would win from it
23:12:52 <nescience> my suggestion is simply to keep a small number of entries per idea
23:12:58 <AnMaster> Deewiant, what were you trying to do...
23:13:29 <AnMaster> nescience, About the ties I mean
23:13:41 <Deewiant> !befunge98 "abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzåäö">:#;288**1-`a\0\#x_$$:#;,_@>\,3k0aa+-0x
23:13:42 <EgoBot> özyxwvutsrqponmlkjihgfedcba
23:13:43 <AnMaster> 15 | + + + + - - - - + + - + + - + 0 - + - - | 51.5 | 1 | impomatic_mirage.bfjoust
23:13:45 <AnMaster> 20 | + + - - - + + - + - + - + + + + - + + - | 61.5 | 4 | nescience_shade.bfjoust
23:14:22 <AnMaster> nescience, anyway go complain about ehird's polarity ones instead
23:14:33 <ehird> Wow, AnMaster is really easy to wind up for hours
23:14:37 <AnMaster> that is where I got the idea in the first place
23:14:39 <ehird> I may start a hill.
23:14:44 <Deewiant> !befunge98 "öäåzyxwvutsrqponmlkjihgfedcba">:#;288**1-`a\0\#x_$$:#;,_@>\,3k0aa+-0x
23:14:44 <EgoBot> abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzå
23:14:53 <ehird> The "wind up AnMaster a lot" hill.
23:14:59 <Deewiant> !befunge98 "åzyxwvutsrqponmlkjihgfedcba">:#;288**1-`a\0\#x_$$:#;,_@>\,3k0aa+-0x
23:14:59 <EgoBot> abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzå
23:15:15 <AnMaster> 15 | + + + + - - - - + + - + + - + 0 - + - - | 51.5 | 1 | impomatic_mirage.bfjoust
23:15:24 <AnMaster> it has no issues with either of mine
23:15:31 <nescience> AnMaster: because it's more interesting to learn than it is to spam the hill
23:16:04 <AnMaster> nescience, as I said. I once ehird stops with those polarity ones I may consider continuing this discussion
23:16:22 <ehird> You're batshit insane. I haven't done a polarity one for ages, and also my polarity switchers tend to do badly.
23:16:23 <nescience> his shit is annoying too, and i called him on it
23:16:28 <nescience> but at least it's only 2 entries, not 5
23:16:28 <ehird> Also, I've stopped now.
23:16:40 <ehird> And mine don't just draw with each other to stay on the hill 4eva and eva.
23:16:44 <Deewiant> !befunge98 "åzyxwvutsrqponmlkjihgfedcba">:#;288**1-`b\0\#x_$$:2j;,_@>\,3k0ab+-0x
23:16:44 <EgoBot> abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzå
23:16:47 <Deewiant> !befunge98 "öååzyxwvutsrqponmlkjihgfedcba">:#;288**1-`b\0\#x_$$:2j;,_@>\,3k0ab+-0x
23:16:48 <EgoBot> abcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzååö
23:16:55 <AnMaster> Deewiant, how comes your maglev wins against my confusers?
23:17:01 <ehird> AnMaster: also, didn't anyone ever tell you in school "two wrongs don't make a right"?
23:17:01 <Deewiant> !befunge98 "öååzyxwvutsrqponmlkjihgfedcbaabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzåäö">:#;288**1-`b\0\#x_$$:2j;,_@>\,3k0ab+-0x
23:17:01 <EgoBot> öäåzyxwvutsrqponmlkjihgfedcbaabcdefghijklmnopqrstuvwxyzååö
23:17:04 <AnMaster> (or whatever ehird wants to call them)
23:17:06 <ehird> or does that not apply to swedish people or sth
23:17:17 <Deewiant> Whee, UTF-8 string output in Befunge-98, only works for the BMP
23:17:18 <ehird> also AnMaster i thought you didn't like warring program games.
23:17:23 <ais523> latest update on zzo38's version of BF Joust: apparently he's trying to mix it with poker
23:17:40 <nescience> has he come up with a card that's worthwhile yet?
23:17:48 <AnMaster> ehird, I'm interested however in seeing "how can you break the systeme"
23:18:10 <ehird> AnMaster: Go try and break Freenode then. That way, we don't have to deal with you being a dick and breaking shit for the rest of us, because we won't be able to hear you.
23:18:12 <ais523> AnMaster: that seems to be a general pastime of this entire channel
23:18:22 <ehird> ais523: generally we put things back afterwards.
23:18:24 <AnMaster> ais523, indeed. Why do you think I'm here
23:18:25 <ais523> which is why bringing bots here tends to be at the peril of the bot concerned
23:18:39 <ehird> AnMaster: Which you have not don.
23:18:48 <AnMaster> ehird, I don't see what there is to put back
23:19:02 <ehird> Getting rid of your 57 minor variations on the same bloody program that are clogging the hill?
23:19:23 <ehird> Do you do this on purpose?
23:19:26 <AnMaster> and why not make programs that beat it
23:19:39 <ehird> Because they are getting beaten.
23:19:45 <AnMaster> it seems that ties are indeed overrated
23:20:14 <ehird> So you just want to leave us wading in a shit hill that we can't play on properly because you don't want to get rid of your exploitation of the bug.
23:20:25 <ais523> ooh, Microsoft has renamed its search engine
23:20:45 <AnMaster> !bfjoust AnMaster_The_Colour_of_Mälaren (+-)*10000000
23:20:46 <Deewiant> http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5hRIu8-oMq5U5Kl6RtgGZAtmoNyfw
23:20:47 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_AnMaster_The_Colour_of_M__laren: 36.9
23:20:54 <ais523> although apparently not yet
23:20:58 <ais523> still at search.live.com
23:21:06 <AnMaster> !bfjoust AnMaster_The_Colour_of_Mälaren <
23:21:08 <ehird> ais523: that's a different thing
23:21:09 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_AnMaster_The_Colour_of_M__laren: 0.0
23:21:12 <AnMaster> !bfjoust The_Colour_of_Mälaren (+-)*10000000
23:21:12 <ehird> looks like Powerset
23:21:15 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_The_Colour_of_M__laren: 23.0
23:21:19 <ais523> and Microsoft bought Powerset
23:21:22 <ais523> so maybe not surprising
23:21:26 <Deewiant> !bfjoust maglev (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>->([[-][+]>]+)*30
23:21:28 <ehird> http://powerset.com/ ← still there
23:21:29 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_maglev: 40.9
23:21:44 <ehird> powerset, btw, is pretty crap
23:21:46 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 24.6
23:21:49 <ehird> leonid_: oh not this again
23:21:56 <leonid_> ehird what was your score?
23:22:04 <AnMaster> Deewiant, I'd want to see (+-)*10000000 vs. your maglev
23:22:06 <leonid_> the score for (-)*999999999999999999999999
23:22:11 <ehird> leonid_: 50-something
23:22:15 <Sgeo> !bfjoust diediedie (-)*128
23:22:17 <ehird> ()*999999999999999999999999999
23:22:18 <EgoBot> Score for Sgeo_diediedie: 4.2
23:22:24 <ais523> leonid_: I think a load of 9s overflows the sort of ints I'm using
23:22:24 <AnMaster> !bfjoust maglev_deewian (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>->([[-][+]>]+)*30
23:22:27 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_maglev_deewian: 35.7
23:22:40 <Deewiant> AnMaster: I meant add that (+-) thing, maglev is safely on the hill
23:22:52 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_maglev_deewian: 0.0
23:22:56 <AnMaster> !bfjoust The_Colour_of_Mälaren (+-)*10000000
23:22:59 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_The_Colour_of_M__laren: 23.1
23:23:20 -!- ehird has changed nick to AnMaster_.
23:23:29 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster__blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa: 21.1
23:23:30 -!- AnMaster_ has changed nick to ehird.
23:24:03 -!- AnMaster has changed nick to AnMaster_.
23:24:07 <ehird> What a fresh, interesting insult.
23:24:11 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster__blaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaaa: 0.0
23:24:11 <Deewiant> Did the scoring algorithm just change?
23:24:12 -!- AnMaster_ has changed nick to AnMaster.
23:24:20 <ehird> Truly amazing, AnMaster I give you the insult award 2009.
23:24:24 <ehird> My ego is deplenished.
23:24:37 <ehird> I am going to go shoot myself because of how worthless you have shown my life to be.
23:24:48 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 32.1
23:24:50 <ehird> Indeed, I would give my dying words, if I thought that anyone would ever care for me again.
23:24:57 <ehird> But my name will be lost in the sands of time. Goodbye.
23:25:06 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 32.6
23:25:12 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 34.4
23:25:13 <ais523> ehird: is that a genuine →, or are you still here?
23:25:21 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 32.8
23:25:28 <ais523> also, I just noticed control-I inserts a literal tab character in this client
23:25:35 <ehird> This is Elliott's mother, I am sorry to report that he has just shot himself.
23:25:40 <ehird> Please bear with us in this difficult time.
23:25:46 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 46.5
23:25:52 <ehird> His suicide note tells me to call AnMaster a bedwetter.
23:25:53 <Deewiant> ehird: Pics or it didn't happen
23:25:57 <ehird> AnMaster: you are a bedwetter.
23:26:00 <ehird> Now I shall go and cry. →
23:26:01 <Sgeo> !bfjoust lols_down (->[-])*20
23:26:03 <EgoBot> Score for Sgeo_lols_down: 10.4
23:26:06 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 12.2
23:26:11 <ais523> ehird: I doubt your mother knows how to type a Unicode arrow
23:26:13 <Deewiant> leonid_: Nice luck with the randomizer there :-P
23:26:13 <ais523> although i might be wrong
23:26:28 <nescience> aw, i think i didn't save the code for creep
23:26:28 <ehird> ais523: It is a Hird skill, passed down generation to generation.
23:26:33 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 46.5
23:26:47 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 46.5
23:26:54 <Deewiant> leonid_: The random only depends on the source codes
23:27:01 <Sgeo> !bfjoust lols (+>[+])*20
23:27:03 <EgoBot> Score for Sgeo_lols: 22.6
23:27:22 <leonid_> !bfjoust lols ([-]->[+])*20
23:27:25 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 17.1
23:27:29 <leonid_> !bfjoust lols ([+]->[+])*20
23:27:32 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 10.0
23:27:41 <Deewiant> !bfjoust maglev (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>->([[-][+]>]+)*30
23:27:44 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_maglev: 32.4
23:27:50 <Deewiant> !bfjoust maglev (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>([[-][+]>]+)*30
23:27:52 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 21.7
23:27:53 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_maglev: 29.4
23:27:55 <Deewiant> !bfjoust maglev (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>-([[-][+]>]+)*30
23:27:57 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_maglev: 39.8
23:27:59 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 19.5
23:28:05 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 46.1
23:28:14 <Sgeo> !bfjoust lols (->[+])*21
23:28:17 <EgoBot> Score for Sgeo_lols: 17.9
23:28:42 <nescience> ehird: i don't suppose you saved any of the code? :P
23:28:49 <ehird> nescience: for what?
23:28:55 <nescience> it's scrolled right out of my buffer now
23:29:02 <nescience> creep, and/or other programs you swapped +- on
23:29:12 <ehird> nescience: just take the swapped one and swap it again
23:29:17 <ehird> http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/
23:29:50 <Sgeo> !bfjoust lols (-->[+])*20
23:29:52 <EgoBot> Score for Sgeo_lols: 10.4
23:29:57 <Sgeo> !bfjoust lols (--->[+])*20
23:30:00 <EgoBot> Score for Sgeo_lols: 10.7
23:30:04 <Sgeo> !bfjoust lols (+>[+])*20
23:30:07 <EgoBot> Score for Sgeo_lols: 26.4
23:30:09 <Sgeo> !bfjoust lols (++>[+])*20
23:30:12 <EgoBot> Score for Sgeo_lols: 23.2
23:31:10 <GregorR-L> You can hg clone that directory to get old ones.
23:31:21 <leonid_> !bfjoust lols (-+->[+])*20
23:31:24 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 16.1
23:31:40 <ehird> hg = version control system
23:31:45 <Deewiant> GregorR-L: Eh, they're all hg'd?
23:31:46 <ehird> $ hg clone http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/
23:31:59 <GregorR-L> Deewiant: So I can rewind history to piss of AnMaster.
23:32:18 <ehird> The piss of AnMaster.
23:32:39 <nescience> i think i have a vm somewhere i can do that in
23:33:52 <EgoBot> vvvvvvvvm vvvvvvvm vvvvvvm vvvvvm vvvvm vvvm vvm vm m
23:34:10 <EgoBot> vrrrrrrrrrrrrrm rrrrrrrrrrrrrm rrrrrrrrrrrrm rrrrrrrrrrrm rrrrrrrrrrm rrrrrrrrrm rrrrrrrrm rrrrrrrm rrrrrrm rrrrrm rrrrm rrrm rrm rm m
23:34:12 <myndzi> because i don't run linux :P
23:34:13 <GregorR-L> You still have to know how to wander about an hg archive to get the old ones though :P
23:34:17 <ais523> you can't reduce the rs
23:34:36 <myndzi> i'm smart, i can figure it out
23:34:40 <fungot> ^<lang> <code>; ^def <command> <lang> <code>; ^show [command]; lang=bf/ul, code=text/str:N; ^str 0-9 get/set/add [text]; ^style [style]; ^bool
23:34:42 <ehird> myndzi: you can run hg in windows
23:35:13 <Deewiant> GregorR-L: No summaries on those commits, nice :-P
23:35:29 <Deewiant> Yes, you could have an automated message there
23:35:34 <GregorR-L> I use hg log --removed -p | less to browse.
23:35:35 <Deewiant> Something that'd make 'hg log' useful
23:36:02 <myndzi> apt-get install is simpler in this case though
23:38:03 <AnMaster> GregorR, did you keep the best of those?
23:38:11 <AnMaster> if you hate clogging history so
23:38:43 <AnMaster> defender6, defender7, defender6_parody
23:39:00 <ehird> Their code is nothing alike.
23:39:10 <ehird> Their essential strategy is alike, but yours were almost the same code.
23:39:58 <Deewiant> ehird: Your polarity-stuff is a bit pointless though.
23:40:09 <ehird> yeah, that's why i stopped.
23:40:43 <Deewiant> I'd kill off the defend6 and slowrush flips
23:41:01 <ehird> I dunno, some of them do really well occasionally :P
23:41:16 <Deewiant> Sure, but that's mostly due to the base programs being good :-P
23:41:22 <ehird> !bfjoust the_unknowable_reversi_of_slowrush <
23:41:25 <EgoBot> Score for ehird_the_unknowable_reversi_of_slowrush: 0.0
23:41:31 <ehird> !bfjoust shade_needs_to_get_laid <
23:41:34 <EgoBot> Score for ehird_shade_needs_to_get_laid: 0.1
23:41:41 <ehird> !bfjoust defend6_a_parody_or_just_plain_ripoff_question_mark <
23:41:48 <EgoBot> Score for ehird_defend6_a_parody_or_just_plain_ripoff_question_mark: 0.4
23:41:58 <Deewiant> shade_needs_to_get_laid looked like it changed more than just polarity
23:41:58 <ehird> !bfjoust fucking_termoil_wants_me_to_term_oil <
23:42:01 <EgoBot> Score for ehird_fucking_termoil_wants_me_to_term_oil: 0.8
23:42:14 <ehird> Deewiant: that one was just s/[-]/[(-)*128[-]]/
23:42:28 <ehird> GregorR-L: I just killed all my ripoffs + one that is deliberately rubbish
23:42:32 <ehird> Which is all the ones on the current hill.
23:42:39 <ehird> GregorR-L: Feel free to rm ehird_*
23:42:50 <ehird> it'll interestify the hill
23:44:10 <GregorR-L> !bfjoust pooper_scooper [>([{}-])%5+]
23:44:13 <EgoBot> Score for GregorR-L_pooper_scooper: 27.9
23:44:18 <AnMaster> GregorR, why didn't you keep my best one
23:44:25 <AnMaster> instead of an old mediocre one
23:44:38 <AnMaster> is that really what you wanted
23:44:39 <GregorR-L> I didn't keep or delete anything, I only removed ehird_*
23:44:39 <ehird> AnMaster: Oh fuck you
23:44:58 <leonid_> !bfjoust lols (.[+]+)*1000
23:45:01 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 14.4
23:45:13 <AnMaster> ehird, no. I would have been happy if he had kept the actual best one
23:45:17 <ehird> The pinnacle of AnMaster's intelligence: threatening to resubmit a bunch of shitty, almost-the-same challengers because GregorR-L didn't do anything.
23:45:29 <leonid_> !bfjoust lols (.[+]+)*10000(>[+])*20
23:45:32 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 10.0
23:45:36 <GregorR-L> They got bumped off the hill, presumably.
23:45:38 <ehird> AnMaster: They dropped off the hill because they sucked.
23:45:39 <ais523> !bfjoust vibration (-)*127(-+)*20000
23:45:39 <leonid_> !bfjoust lols (.[+]+)*10000>(->[+])*20
23:45:42 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 11.6
23:45:43 <EgoBot> Score for ais523_vibration: 23.4
23:45:45 <AnMaster> GregorR-L, they didn't the score is wrong for that
23:45:48 <ais523> !bfjoust vibration (-)*127(-+)*20000
23:45:50 <leonid_> !bfjoust lols ([+]+)*10000>(->[+])*20
23:45:51 <EgoBot> Score for ais523_vibration: 23.4
23:45:53 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 13.5
23:46:12 <ehird> ais523: you get killed after the 127 -s, probably
23:46:15 <ehird> try a smaller number
23:46:16 <leonid_> !bfjoust lols ([+](-)*100)*100>(->[+])*20
23:46:19 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 14.0
23:46:25 <ehird> leonid_: are you actually putting any logic into those?
23:46:29 <ais523> ehird: the 127 is deliberate
23:46:30 <myndzi> http://codu.org/eso/bfjoust/in_egobot/ does not appear to be an hg repository
23:46:38 <ais523> the problem is, I can't set up fast enough
23:46:43 <leonid_> defending then attacking maybe ?_?
23:46:45 <ais523> the idea is to hope that the opponent misses the flag altogether
23:46:45 <myndzi> the error says otherwise
23:46:54 <myndzi> unless the syntax quoted earlier is incorrect
23:46:54 <ais523> because it's 0 every other cycle
23:47:05 <ais523> but I can't set up in time
23:47:14 <Deewiant> ais523: I think I tried something like that, and yeah, it's a bit slow
23:47:25 <ais523> !bfjoust vibration >---->++++<<(-)*127(-+)*20000
23:47:28 <EgoBot> Score for ais523_vibration: 41.4
23:47:42 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 32.4
23:48:23 <ehird> !bfjoust antivibration [>[+]-]--
23:48:25 <EgoBot> Score for ehird_antivibration: 13.9
23:48:32 <ais523> ehird: is that designed to beat vibration?
23:48:40 <Deewiant> !bfjoust maglev (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>-([[-][+]>]+)*30
23:48:43 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_maglev: 32.3
23:48:43 <ehird> ais523: as a first prototype, yes
23:48:44 <Deewiant> !bfjoust maglev (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>-([[-][+][-]>]+)*30
23:48:47 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_maglev: 39.8
23:48:50 <ehird> ais523: the idea is to find a zeroed cell and then zero it some more
23:49:04 <ais523> !bfjoust vibration >>>++++<----<++++<(-)*127(-+)*20000
23:49:05 <Deewiant> And better overall, too, which I didn't expect :-P
23:49:07 <EgoBot> Score for ais523_vibration: 48.3
23:49:19 <ais523> doing it that way round gives me slightly more setup time
23:49:32 <ehird> !bfjoust antivibration [[>]-[-[-[-]]]+]
23:49:32 <AnMaster> <ais523> !bfjoust vibration >---->++++<<(-)*127(-+)*20000 <-- try higher number. You miscounted
23:49:35 <EgoBot> Score for ehird_antivibration: 13.8
23:49:36 <Deewiant> Now I lose again, I wonder why
23:49:43 <ais523> AnMaster: what's the time limit
23:49:50 <ais523> !bfjoust vibration >>>++++<----<++++<(-)*127(-+)*50000
23:49:53 <EgoBot> Score for ais523_vibration: 38.9
23:50:06 <Deewiant> No, that'd be the random number generator :-P
23:50:25 <Deewiant> !bfjoust maglev (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>-([([-][+])*2>]+)*30
23:50:27 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_maglev: 33.3
23:50:29 <leonid_> !bfjoust lols (---+)*10000
23:50:31 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 27.5
23:50:41 <Deewiant> !bfjoust maglev (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>-([[-][+][-][+]>]+)*30
23:50:46 <ais523> !bfjoust vibration_fool >>>++++<----<++++<(-)*127(-+)*5000[>[-(.)*128]]
23:50:47 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_maglev: 35.5
23:50:49 <EgoBot> Score for ais523_vibration_fool: 44.5
23:51:03 <Deewiant> !bfjoust maglev (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>-([[-][-][+]>]+)*30
23:51:05 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_maglev: 34.1
23:51:11 <ehird> ais523: btw, a good argument for [-] not taking the cycle to make you win: "[]hey, i've been zeroed, let's react" doesn't work
23:51:20 <Deewiant> !bfjoust maglev (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>-([[-][-][+][+]>]+)*30
23:51:23 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_maglev: 37.7
23:52:03 <ais523> AnMaster: if the opponent doesn't turn up for ten-thousand cycles, almost certainly it's a defence program
23:52:09 <ais523> so switch to a counter-defence strategy
23:52:10 <Deewiant> !bfjoust maglev (>(-)*10)*4(>(+)*10)*4>>-([([-])*2([+])*2>]+)*30
23:52:13 <EgoBot> Score for Deewiant_maglev: 44.3
23:52:26 <ais523> ehird: if the ] jumps to the [ rather than to itself, [] still detects itself being zeroed
23:52:28 <EgoBot> Score for GregorR-L_barbeque: 24.6
23:52:31 <Deewiant> Now it loses against the original vibration again
23:52:50 <ehird> ais523: I know, but the point is, you can do [] to monitor if an opponent's just zeroed you, and have time to react
23:52:53 <ehird> !bfjoust melodic_fooltool [-[+[-[+[-[+[-[+]-]+]-]+]-]+]-]
23:52:56 <EgoBot> Score for ehird_melodic_fooltool: 12.2
23:53:01 <ais523> ehird: oh, agreed it's nice
23:53:05 <ais523> I thought you were saying that was a bad thing
23:53:15 <ehird> Haha, melodic_fooltool wins against shade.
23:53:17 <ais523> so are you saying you agree with [-] being equivalent to -.-.-.-.-.-.-. in the absence of zeroes?
23:53:21 <Deewiant> ehird: ([](+)*100)*100000? :-P
23:53:25 <ehird> ais523: Well, it doesn't work
23:53:33 <ehird> By the time [] realises you're zeroed, a cycle passes
23:53:35 <ehird> and thou hast lost
23:53:50 <AnMaster> !bfjoust melodic_fooltool_variant >+>+>[-[+[-[+[-[+[-[+]-]+]-]+]-]+]-]
23:53:53 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_melodic_fooltool_variant: 15.2
23:53:56 <AnMaster> !bfjoust melodic_fooltool_variant >+>+>+[-[+[-[+[-[+[-[+]-]+]-]+]-]+]-]
23:53:58 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_melodic_fooltool_variant: 23.9
23:54:00 <ehird> AnMaster: Wow. You're a hypocrite.
23:54:07 <ehird> "ehird, don't rip off others' programs and just change a minor detail!"
23:54:10 <AnMaster> ehird, I'm going to delete it now
23:54:12 <ais523> you could change that by making [] take the value at the end of the cycle
23:54:15 <AnMaster> !bfjoust melodic_fooltool_variant <
23:54:17 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_melodic_fooltool_variant: 0.0
23:54:21 <AnMaster> ehird, just wanted to test an idea
23:54:29 <ehird> ais523: otoh, you could probably make an unbeatable program that way
23:54:41 <ais523> nah, it wouldn't be unbeatable
23:54:45 <Deewiant> Do not meddle in the affairs of ehirds, for they are blunt and quick to anger
23:54:45 <AnMaster> ehird, and it seemed my idea worked better
23:54:45 <EgoBot> Score for GregorR-L_dumbfend: 18.0
23:54:50 <ais523> but the other program would have to predict what it was going to do next
23:54:59 <ehird> ais523: Sounds interesting.
23:55:09 <ehird> ais523: Think I should put that in my interp?
23:55:10 <ais523> not really, it would just be a 1/3 chance of being right
23:55:18 <ehird> I mean, the strategy of []
23:55:18 <ais523> with no strategy involved
23:55:34 <ais523> hmm... it may be interesting to experiment with
23:55:45 <ais523> but I don't think we should change it to default until we look at what becomes possible and impossible due to it
23:55:48 <AnMaster> !bfjoust ehirds_melodic_fooltool_variant >+>+>+>+<+<[-[+[-[+[-[+[-[+]-]+]-]+]-]+]-]
23:55:49 <leonid_> !bfjoust lols (-)*63(->[+])*20
23:55:51 -!- Sgeo_ has joined.
23:55:52 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 20.6
23:55:52 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_ehirds_melodic_fooltool_variant: 23.8
23:55:58 <AnMaster> !bfjoust ehirds_melodic_fooltool_variant >+>+>+>+<<[-[+[-[+[-[+[-[+]-]+]-]+]-]+]-]
23:56:02 <EgoBot> Score for KingOfKarlsruhe_king: 18.7
23:56:02 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_ehirds_melodic_fooltool_variant: 26.6
23:56:07 <AnMaster> !bfjoust ehirds_melodic_fooltool_variant <
23:56:10 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_ehirds_melodic_fooltool_variant: 0.0
23:56:30 <ehird> !bfjoust melodic_toolfool (-[{(+[]-)%50}]+)%50
23:56:32 <EgoBot> Score for ehird_melodic_toolfool: 0.0
23:56:35 <leonid_> !bfjoust lols ((-)*64>(+)*64>)*15(>[+])*15
23:56:38 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 5.8
23:56:40 <ehird> I am very good at being bad.
23:57:02 <leonid_> is it same as being very bad at being good?
23:57:06 <Deewiant> ehird: You put a % where there were no {}
23:57:07 <AnMaster> !bfjoust ehirds_melodic_fooltool_variant >++>>+>+>+>++<<[-[+[-[+[-[+[-[+]-]+]-]+]-]+]-]
23:57:10 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_ehirds_melodic_fooltool_variant: 25.4
23:57:14 <AnMaster> !bfjoust ehirds_melodic_fooltool_variant <
23:57:17 <EgoBot> Score for AnMaster_ehirds_melodic_fooltool_variant: 0.0
23:57:19 <ehird> !bfjoust melodic_toolfool (-[{(+[]-)*50}]+)%50
23:57:22 <EgoBot> Score for ehird_melodic_toolfool: 21.1
23:57:47 <ehird> ais523: toolfool draws with vibration
23:58:03 <ais523> ehird: neither contains < or >
23:58:05 <ais523> so it isn't surprising
23:58:05 <ehird> ais523: Toolfool wins against vibration.
23:58:16 <EgoBot> Score for KingOfKarlsruhe_king: 6.5
23:58:46 <ais523> ehird: so it does. But how? Neither of them move left or right...
23:58:55 <ais523> and I don't think the original vibration suicides
23:59:19 <ehird> It also wins against shade.
23:59:27 <leonid_> !bfjoust lols ((-)*64>(+)*64>)*8(>[+])*15
23:59:29 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 14.5
23:59:45 <leonid_> !bfjoust lols ((-)*64>(+)*64>)*7(>[+])*20
23:59:47 <EgoBot> Score for leonid__lols: 26.0